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Speaker 1: Warning. This episode contains references to extreme violence. Please use

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Speaker 1: discretion when listening.

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Speaker 2: Okay, wait to hear others.

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Speaker 3: Please join an audio.

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Speaker 4: White Fine, Sorry, I'm a millennial.

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Speaker 5: What are you?

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Speaker 4: You're gen x No, I'm not you are Okay, new recording. Okay,

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Speaker 4: it's on.

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Speaker 1: Hi. Wendy, Hie. That's my older sister, Wendy. She got

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Speaker 1: up extra early one morning so that she could drop

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Speaker 1: off her three kids at school before getting on a

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Speaker 1: zoom with me. For the record, she is technically a millennial,

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Speaker 1: but I think she acts more like a gen xer.

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Speaker 1: I wanted to talk to Wendy because we finally got

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Speaker 1: into a part of the story that I kind of remember.

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Speaker 1: Wendy and I are eight years apart, but we both

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Speaker 1: grew up in La My parents left El Salvador in

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Speaker 1: nineteen eighty one, a year when the Civil War was

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Speaker 1: at its worst. They ended up in Los Angeles, along

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Speaker 1: with thousands of other Salvadorans who were fleeing the war.

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Speaker 1: They slept on kitchen floors and couches until they could

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Speaker 1: get on their feet. Eventually, they scraped together enough money

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Speaker 1: to buy an old rundown house, the one that me

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Speaker 1: and my sister Wendy grew up in But do you

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Speaker 1: remember how often we would get rats from the park.

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Speaker 4: Oh, my god, that was the most disgusting part. Yeah,

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Speaker 4: the rats and the.

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Speaker 5: I think you got bit by one one time.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I tried to pet it, but I was scared to

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Speaker 1: pet it with my hands, so I pet it with my.

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Speaker 2: Foot and bit my toe.

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Speaker 4: It bit your I didn't even know what it did,

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Speaker 4: but I just remember, like, yeah, you got bit by it.

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Speaker 2: Oh.

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Speaker 1: My family spent the nineties trying to survive in that

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Speaker 1: beat up old house. It was in south central LA

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Speaker 1: on a street that had an hourly motel on one

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Speaker 1: corner and a crack house on the other. It was

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Speaker 1: dangerous in more ways than one. My parents had very

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Speaker 1: strict rules for me and my sisters. No playing outside

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Speaker 1: after dark, no walking anywhere alone, go straight to school

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Speaker 1: and come straight home. Honestly, it sucked. We ended up

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Speaker 1: staying inside and playing Super Mario a lot. But there

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Speaker 1: was only so much that they could protect us from

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Speaker 1: because the reality of living in the hood was inescapable. Like,

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Speaker 1: at what point did you become aware that there were

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Speaker 1: gangs in the area that we were living in? Right

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Speaker 1: awayway gangs, mostly divided by race, were everywhere in our neighborhood.

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Speaker 1: The Crips and the Bloods, which were mostly black gangs,

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Speaker 1: and the Mexican mafia were fighting it out for control

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Speaker 1: of the streets of La and in response to the

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Speaker 1: gang violence, thousands of Salvadoran refugees that had come fleeing

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Speaker 1: the war would start to create gangs of their own.

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Speaker 4: I had like a little boyfriend I remember if it

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Speaker 4: was like seventh grade or eighth grade. I think probably

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Speaker 4: eighth grade. It was the one that gave me the

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Speaker 4: teddy bear that my dad like ripped up to shreds

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Speaker 4: the second I got home. But he, unfortunately, I ended

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Speaker 4: up learning like months later like that he had gotten

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Speaker 4: like shot and killed because he was like a little

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Speaker 4: gang member and howen was he was probably thirteen.

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Speaker 1: Gang violence that started out in our neighborhood in LA

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Speaker 1: would transform life for Salvadorans, and not just the ones

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Speaker 1: in Los Angeles, but in El Salvador too. While the

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Speaker 1: war in El Salvador was ending, Salvadoran gangs in La

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Speaker 1: were forming MS thirteen and Barriodicioccho, two of the most

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Speaker 1: notorious gangs in the world, were born in my backyard

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Speaker 1: in La These gangs would rule the next thirty years

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Speaker 1: of Salvador in life and cause more death than the

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Speaker 1: entire Civil War put together.

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Speaker 3: Tonight we take you inside one of the most dangerous

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Speaker 3: countries on Earth, a place where criminal gangs control entire neighborhoods,

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Speaker 3: and these gangs from El Salvador are now operating in

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Speaker 3: nearly every corner of America.

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Speaker 1: I'm Jasmine Romero and this is Sacred Scandal, Nation of Saints,

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Speaker 1: Episode nine, The Gangs. We'll be right back after the break.

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Speaker 1: If you ask the average American what they know about

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Speaker 1: El Salvador, they will probably answer you with one of

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Speaker 1: two things, either one ubusas and to be fair, they

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Speaker 1: are delicious, or two gangs. Since the end of the

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Speaker 1: Civil War, Al Salvador's gang problem has been the number

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Speaker 1: one news item about the country.

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Speaker 5: El Salvador has long been plagued by stratospheric levels of

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Speaker 5: gang violence.

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Speaker 1: Like tens of thousands of people who grew up in

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Speaker 1: the shadow of the Civil War perpetuated the cycle of

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Speaker 1: violence by joining the street gangs. In twenty fifteen, there

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Speaker 1: were more than six and a half thousand murders in

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Speaker 1: El Salvadore the worst murder rates in the world. But

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Speaker 1: these gangs, they didn't just spring up out of nowhere.

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Speaker 1: They came out of the US, specifically California, from families

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Speaker 1: like mine who came fleeing the war and found that

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Speaker 1: California wasn't the peaceful paradise they were hoping for.

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Speaker 5: They started off as young stoner kids who, out of

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Speaker 5: immigrant lowliness, would come together to smoke pot listen to

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Speaker 5: Ronnie James, Dio, Metallica and Cumbia's and other music on

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Speaker 5: their boomboxes.

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Speaker 1: That's He's a Salvadoran American journalist, professor, and writer who

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Speaker 1: grew up in California. He was one of those lonely

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Speaker 1: immigrant kids. In the late eighties, while the war in

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Speaker 1: El Salvador was at its peak, he was in California

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Speaker 1: working with an outreach group for recent migrants and he

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Speaker 1: started noticing some strange patterns.

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Speaker 5: But they started going to schools like in the San

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Speaker 5: Fernando Valley and other places in Sherman Oaks, and they

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Speaker 5: were facing crips, bloods, and Mexican kids who were linked

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Speaker 5: to the Mexican mafia.

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Speaker 1: Now migrants coming into low income areas were easy targets

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Speaker 1: for the more established gangs that already existed. So these

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Speaker 1: Salvadoran migrant kids, they start banding together and creating little

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Speaker 1: gangs of their own.

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Speaker 5: So these Savadorin kids found themselves being threatened by crip

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Speaker 5: gang and Mexican mafia, and so to defend themselves, they

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Speaker 5: started taking on machettis that I would see them buy

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Speaker 5: at a store like at Liborios in Pico Union. Turns

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Speaker 5: out that we're using them to defend themselves against heavily

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Speaker 5: armed gangs.

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Speaker 1: Barrio Disiocho and MS thirteen get their start as small

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Speaker 1: street gangs, but as the violence in La escalated, more

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Speaker 1: and more of these on immigrant gang members started being

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Speaker 1: sent to California prisons, prisons where long established gangs were

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Speaker 1: in charge. And these little disorganized Salvadorn gangs, when they

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Speaker 1: start taking notes, they begin to transform.

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Speaker 5: And so that's where MS thirteen starts taking on the

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Speaker 5: structures and culture and practices like jumping in for thirteen seconds,

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Speaker 5: getting beat up to join the gang for thirteen seconds, right,

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Speaker 5: And so then the language, the tattoos, the violence, and

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Speaker 5: the very structured nature of these gangs comes from California.

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Speaker 1: La Maras a ra Drucha, also known as MS thirteen

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Speaker 1: becomes the hardened and sophisticated gang we know today. Within

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Speaker 1: those California prisons, they learn how to run extortion rings,

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Speaker 1: how to exert control over territory using violence and fear,

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Speaker 1: how to turn a gang into a business. And in

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Speaker 1: the early nineties, the US decides that it doesn't really

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Speaker 1: want to deal with these gangs anymore. Just as the

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Speaker 1: salvador In Civil War is coming to an end, the

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Speaker 1: US starts deporting thousands of migrants, especially those with criminal records.

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Speaker 5: We are a nation of immigrants, but we are also

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Speaker 5: a nation of laws. That's why our administration has moved

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Speaker 5: aggressively to secure our borders.

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Speaker 6: More.

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Speaker 7: We will try to do more to speed the deportation

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Speaker 7: of illegal aliens who are arrested for crimes.

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Speaker 1: The mass deportations really get started in nineteen eighty six

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Speaker 1: under President Bill Clinton. His administration passed a law that

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Speaker 1: made it easier to deport immigrants with criminal records.

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Speaker 5: And pretty soon this country that's just coming out of

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Speaker 5: the war in the early nine nineties has all kinds

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Speaker 5: of guns everywhere because they were left over. Nobody not

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Speaker 5: all of them were destroyed. So these kids, who are

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Speaker 5: already exposed to Mexican gang cultures and structures, start implanting

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Speaker 5: where the violence gets put on steroids. Because of the

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Speaker 5: availability of guns.

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Speaker 1: It was like an infection meeting an open wound. Not

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Speaker 1: only was Alsavador still full of guns left over from

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Speaker 1: the war, it was also full of people who had

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Speaker 1: been in that war. Children who had grown up traumatized

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Speaker 1: by extreme levels of violence, kids who had one or

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Speaker 1: both parents killed in the war, or kids that were

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Speaker 1: left behind by parents who had immigrated to the US,

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Speaker 1: kids looking for a family. By the late nineties, alsavor

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Speaker 1: was one of the poorest countries in the world. The

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Speaker 1: economy never truly recovered after the war, and young people

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Speaker 1: had very few opportunities to advance. So these newly deported

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Speaker 1: gangs move in and they solve two societal problems for

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Speaker 1: thousands of angry young people. They provide a sense of

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Speaker 1: family of community, and they provide a job by charging

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Speaker 1: rent to regular Salvadorans a fee for living within gang territory.

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Speaker 1: By the mid two thousands, what had started as little

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Speaker 1: cliques in La had become one of the world's most

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Speaker 1: deadly and organized criminal organizations, and it became the only

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Speaker 1: story that the world knew about Ol Salvador.

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Speaker 6: In l Salvador, these days, there's one murder an hour

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Speaker 6: for a pretty small country, only six million people. It

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Speaker 6: doesn't take long when you're, you know, going out at

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Speaker 6: night to stumble upon a scene like this with a

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Speaker 6: body laying dead in the streets. And that's that's pretty

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Speaker 6: much what people here are living with. These just constant

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Speaker 6: shootings and murders. Right now, El Salvador is on track

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Speaker 6: to be the nation with the highest homicide rate in

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Speaker 6: the world.

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Speaker 1: The gangs were the warnings of the murdered Jesuits come

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Speaker 1: to life. Father Ignacio Martin Barot had theorized that the

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Speaker 1: trauma of war would leave the Salvadoran society with a

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Speaker 1: militarized mind, that violence would become the default solution for

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Speaker 1: all of society's problems, and that was true not just

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Speaker 1: for the gangs, but also for the government. Over the years,

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Speaker 1: the Salvadoran government has tried to handle the gang problem

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Speaker 1: by meeting violence with violence. In two thousand and three,

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Speaker 1: the Arena led government put in place it's blan Manodura

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Speaker 1: Plan iron Fist, a police crackdown on these gangs followed

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Speaker 1: in two thousand and four by the creatively named Blan

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Speaker 1: super Manodura sup Iron Fist, and these crackdowns led to

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Speaker 1: the rise of an old tactic death squads, police officers

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Speaker 1: going out in the dead of night to kidnap, torture

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Speaker 1: and kill, but this time targeting the gangs. And though

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Speaker 1: there have been attempts to rehabilitate gang members too, overwhelmingly

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Speaker 1: the plans that have received the most funding and support

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Speaker 1: in El Salvador were ones led by the military and police.

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Speaker 1: For most of my life, the gangs have been the

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Speaker 1: only story told about Al Salvador, and it's one that

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Speaker 1: I know really well because my family has lived at firsthand.

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Speaker 1: We've had people in the gangs, and we've had people

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Speaker 1: killed by the gangs. It's a cycle that's best explained

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Speaker 1: by someone you've heard from before.

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Speaker 8: Mitievilma Mala mala poor ky Lo loke.

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Speaker 2: Ma fel.

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Speaker 1: I've known a lot of people in the gangs, she says,

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Speaker 1: like the ones who killed my son. That's after the break.

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Speaker 7: Me nores Will says, so the Salvador San Miguel Oriente.

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Speaker 8: Ute yo sooi and relations and so dia, so you Natiya.

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Speaker 1: That's my Tavilma. You might remember her from previous episode.

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Speaker 1: She's the aunt that takes no ship. She's little, about

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Speaker 1: five four, but I've seen her cuss out men that

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Speaker 1: are twice her size, which is why it was always

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Speaker 1: so strange that her son, Tulio, my cousin, was such

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Speaker 1: a sweet kid.

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Speaker 2: Bienko to para black.

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Speaker 1: Julio was small like his mom, but with a big mouth.

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Speaker 1: I remember hanging out with him when I was a

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Speaker 1: kid on our yearly trips to Olsavador. He was about

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Speaker 1: my sister's age, eight years older than me, with cocoa

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Speaker 1: brown skin and dark eyes that were crowded with thick eyelashes,

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Speaker 1: and he always had this sly smile on his face.

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Speaker 2: Into into in pre.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, just like with my Tia Margarita, my Tia

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Speaker 1: Vilma had a real soft spot for Tulio. Tulio was

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Speaker 1: always the one telling her not to be so loud

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Speaker 1: or crass, chastising her with a mommy. Toulu grew up

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Speaker 1: in San Miguel, and because he was small for his age,

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Speaker 1: he was able to get through most of his childhood unscathed.

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Speaker 1: But when he turned fifteen, he finally arrived at a

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Speaker 1: right of passage for suv Orn boys, and.

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Speaker 2: Marie Juel del Piero be.

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Speaker 1: Did he He was jumped beat up by some boys

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Speaker 1: at school, boys that wanted him to join their gang.

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Speaker 1: This was pretty typical. Once the boy was of a

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Speaker 1: certain age, he was expected to join the gang that

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Speaker 1: controlled the territory that he lived in, and for Tulio

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Speaker 1: that meant Ms thirteen. When he came home from school

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Speaker 1: covered in bruises, Matia Vilma got her machete off the

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Speaker 1: wall and told Tulio to point out the kids that

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Speaker 1: had beat him up. Matia Vilma whooped their asses. She

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Speaker 1: went straight over to those kids' houses and in front

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Speaker 1: of their moms, whooped their asses with the flat side

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Speaker 1: of her machete. And she told them that the next

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Speaker 1: time they jumped her kid, they wouldn't be dealing with her,

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Speaker 1: they'd be dealing with his father, a colonel in the military,

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Speaker 1: which is totally not true, but the lie worked.

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Speaker 2: They left Julio.

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Speaker 1: Alone for a while, but when he turned seventeen, the

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Speaker 1: beating started again. But worse, Mila, these weren't just kids

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Speaker 1: jumping him in anymore. These were grown men sending Tulio

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Speaker 1: a message. Mitia realized that if Tulio stayed in San Miguel,

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Speaker 1: he'd either end up in one of the gangs or dead.

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Speaker 1: She had watched my other cousin, Chico, join m S

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Speaker 1: thirteen and watched him slowly cover himself with tattoos. Eventually,

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Speaker 1: Chico landed in a salvador In prison for life. It

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Speaker 1: was a future that she didn't want for her son.

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Speaker 1: Mitiavilma decided to send Tulio north to the US. Another

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Speaker 1: one of my aunts was planning on crossing over, and

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Speaker 1: Vilma asked if she would bring Tullia along. Tulio crossed

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Speaker 1: the border in nineteen ninety nine. For a while, he

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Speaker 1: stayed with an aunt in La Then he stayed with

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Speaker 1: another cousin. But there's a saying in Spanish about guests

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Speaker 1: and the dead that they both start to stink after

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Speaker 1: three days. After CouchSurfing with various family members, Duliu had

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Speaker 1: to find his own way. He ended up working odd jobs,

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Speaker 1: delivering newspapers, packing boxes at a juice factory, and sending

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Speaker 1: money back to mythea whenever he got a chance.

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Speaker 7: Almes Conlin Tamamil Lobi.

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Speaker 1: And my Tia Vilma needed a lot of help because

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Speaker 1: back in San Miguel, m S. Thirteen was extorting everyone,

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Speaker 1: charging rent for living in their territory, even someone like

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Speaker 1: Vilma who didn't have a lot of money and was

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Speaker 1: still loading baskets full of chilate to sell in the market.

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Speaker 1: She came home one day to find that her neighbor

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Speaker 1: had a message for her.

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Speaker 2: Mediela vecina a.

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Speaker 1: Yo a Manila envelope. The neighbor said that she didn't

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Speaker 1: know who it was from. Inside the envelope was a

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Speaker 1: flip phone and a note.

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Speaker 7: Yela Senora senoras e Liz Damoselando di la.

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Speaker 1: The note said, miss Vilma, greetings from MS. Thirteen. At first,

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Speaker 1: my Thea thought it was a joke or something, but

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00:21:40,560 --> 00:21:44,119
Speaker 1: she quickly realized that this was serious. The note was

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Speaker 1: full of details about my Tia Vilma's life Don.

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Speaker 2: De Villa Familia doos.

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Speaker 1: The note warned her that if she wanted to stay alive,

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Speaker 1: she would have to start hang rent to the gang.

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Speaker 1: Within minutes of her opening the envelope, the flip phone

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00:22:05,800 --> 00:22:26,520
Speaker 1: that was inside started ringing capasom it was a gang

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Speaker 1: member calling to get her response to the note. As

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Speaker 1: my Thea was telling me this story, I could feel

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Speaker 1: the hairs on the back of my neck stand up.

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Speaker 1: If it was me, I probably would have lost it.

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Speaker 1: But my Dea, well, she's made of tougher stuff.

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Speaker 2: Quin Quin gris.

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Speaker 1: She got on the phone and she told him, listen up,

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Speaker 1: you little ship. I don't know who you think you are,

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Speaker 1: but I'm not paying you a dime. I've got two

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Speaker 1: sons who are higher rank than you and the gangs,

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Speaker 1: and if you don't leave me alone, I'll have them

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00:23:22,720 --> 00:23:27,320
Speaker 1: take care of you, which was completely not true, but

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Speaker 1: she did have my cousin, Chico, the one who was

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Speaker 1: in prison. She called the prison that my cousin was

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Speaker 1: in and asked him if he would back her up

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Speaker 1: and get the gangs to leave her alone. She said

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Speaker 1: the whole time that she was on the phone, her

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00:23:43,800 --> 00:23:46,639
Speaker 1: legs were shaking so hard that it rattled the table.

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Speaker 1: The relationship with my cousin Chico is complicated. He had

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00:24:03,760 --> 00:24:06,439
Speaker 1: lent his name to the family before offering them protection

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00:24:06,640 --> 00:24:10,920
Speaker 1: through his connection with the gangs, but we also suspect

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Speaker 1: that he's responsible for some shootings that have happened around

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00:24:14,160 --> 00:24:19,600
Speaker 1: my family, including one that killed my uncle Chico agreed

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00:24:19,640 --> 00:24:23,200
Speaker 1: to cover Mathia, and after that phone call, the gangs

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Speaker 1: left Mathia alone for the most part. But that's just

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00:24:27,200 --> 00:24:31,240
Speaker 1: how it was in Alsavador. There was no escaping the gangs.

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00:24:32,440 --> 00:24:36,760
Speaker 1: They were a part of everyday life, and every day

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Speaker 1: Mythia was thankful that my cousin Thulia was in the US,

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00:24:41,080 --> 00:24:45,800
Speaker 1: far away from that life. But about eight years after

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Speaker 1: Thulil left to live in California, he suddenly appeared on

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Speaker 1: her doorstep back in San Miguel.

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Speaker 8: Iporkiseviotulio dess no Stella el medj Here.

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Speaker 1: He told Mitya Avilma that he'd come back to visit her,

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Speaker 1: but the truth was he'd been deported. While in the US,

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Speaker 1: he and a bunch of friends had started an illegal

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Speaker 1: street racing ring. He was one of the organizers, and

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00:25:18,200 --> 00:25:20,159
Speaker 1: he got arrested in two thousand and seven for his

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Speaker 1: part in it. When he got back to Olsavador, he

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Speaker 1: told Matievilma that he was only going to stay for

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Speaker 1: six months until May tenth, Mother's Day so that he

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00:25:30,359 --> 00:25:34,120
Speaker 1: could celebrate with her. Then he'd figure out a way

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Speaker 1: to get back across the border and get back to work.

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Speaker 7: Gestavarresim Benilo Taos. He saw Louja Pasarda de la madreco

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Speaker 7: mio querl dias de mayu.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, there is de Mayo il dia de la Cruzieki.

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00:25:53,000 --> 00:25:55,240
Speaker 1: On the afternoon of May third, he went out to

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00:25:55,280 --> 00:25:57,359
Speaker 1: play soccer with some other guys in the neighborhood.

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00:25:58,320 --> 00:26:14,800
Speaker 2: I mean, memo, beat you a ya mami javengko you know,

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00:26:17,000 --> 00:26:17,280
Speaker 2: he said.

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Speaker 1: My tia told him not to go out for too

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Speaker 1: long because she was making him lunch, his favorite tomato stew.

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00:26:26,040 --> 00:26:28,560
Speaker 1: A few minutes later, a kid from the neighborhood came

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Speaker 1: running up to my aunt's door.

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Speaker 2: Mammy, Mammy, mammy, miss yo, you can't see.

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Speaker 1: She thought they were kidding. At first, the words didn't

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00:26:48,359 --> 00:26:52,840
Speaker 1: even register, but they kept yelling at her. They killed,

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00:26:53,800 --> 00:26:58,359
Speaker 1: they killed. She ran to the playground where he'd been playing,

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Speaker 1: and she found her son crumpled on the floor Guano.

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00:27:08,040 --> 00:27:09,119
Speaker 2: Lanco to.

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Speaker 1: What startled her most was the color, the bright white

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00:27:19,760 --> 00:27:26,160
Speaker 1: color of Tulio's skull. He'd been shot three times, once

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00:27:26,240 --> 00:27:29,639
Speaker 1: in the chest, once in the back, and once in

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00:27:29,680 --> 00:27:33,560
Speaker 1: the back of his head. She knelt down beside his

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Speaker 1: body and cradled her son in her arms.

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Speaker 2: You gotta the moment the vaster.

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00:27:48,680 --> 00:27:52,000
Speaker 1: She prayed over him, told him how much she loved him.

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00:27:53,320 --> 00:27:56,680
Speaker 1: She asked God to take care of him. She doesn't

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00:27:56,720 --> 00:28:00,880
Speaker 1: know how much time passed. The next thing she remembers

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00:28:01,520 --> 00:28:04,920
Speaker 1: as a policeman asking her to step away from the body.

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00:28:17,840 --> 00:28:22,560
Speaker 2: Carr Porte.

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Speaker 1: The details around Tulio's death are uncertain. I spoke to

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00:28:45,640 --> 00:28:48,240
Speaker 1: a lot of family and people who knew at the time,

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00:28:49,080 --> 00:28:51,600
Speaker 1: and they all have different theories about why he was killed.

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00:28:53,040 --> 00:28:55,160
Speaker 1: Some say that a couple of days before his death,

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00:28:55,680 --> 00:28:58,120
Speaker 1: he'd gotten into an argument with a security guard who

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00:28:58,160 --> 00:29:02,080
Speaker 1: had connections to the gangs. Others say that Tulio had

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00:29:02,120 --> 00:29:05,760
Speaker 1: witnessed a gang murder and that's why they came after him.

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00:29:07,240 --> 00:29:09,560
Speaker 1: But the thing that everyone I spoke to agreed on

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00:29:10,880 --> 00:29:14,200
Speaker 1: was that Tulio wasn't in a gang himself, and that

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00:29:14,320 --> 00:29:16,920
Speaker 1: he was killed by m s thirteen.

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Speaker 7: Mi vinti sulo mataro hey turo is doro solo cannos

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00:29:25,480 --> 00:29:30,760
Speaker 7: have it unserqurido de la manu to.

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00:29:32,480 --> 00:29:33,000
Speaker 2: Pandias.

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00:29:34,680 --> 00:29:38,120
Speaker 1: In the aftermath of Tulio's murder, Matia Vilma was asked

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00:29:38,160 --> 00:29:40,920
Speaker 1: to go to the police station to look at mugshots

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00:29:41,160 --> 00:29:44,640
Speaker 1: and try to identify his killers, but she never did.

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00:29:46,320 --> 00:29:49,959
Speaker 1: The fact is everyone in the neighborhood knew who had

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00:29:50,000 --> 00:29:53,960
Speaker 1: done it. MS thirteen did little to hide their responsibility

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00:29:53,960 --> 00:29:58,360
Speaker 1: for Tulio's murder, but to identify them would have been

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00:29:58,360 --> 00:30:02,160
Speaker 1: a death sentence. They just come and kill you next,

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00:30:03,280 --> 00:30:05,680
Speaker 1: and your family too, just to prove a point.

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00:30:06,960 --> 00:30:29,160
Speaker 2: USI the local, I l lay de la lay de la.

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00:30:36,520 --> 00:30:37,600
Speaker 9: You have.

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00:30:43,920 --> 00:30:47,920
Speaker 1: I don't believe in man's justice, she says, it's corrupt,

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00:30:49,200 --> 00:30:52,760
Speaker 1: but you don't play with God's justice. Whoever did this,

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00:30:53,760 --> 00:31:01,720
Speaker 1: they'll have to answer to the Lord. I don't know

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00:31:02,600 --> 00:31:06,200
Speaker 1: if they'll ever answer to the Lord or not. All

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00:31:06,280 --> 00:31:07,880
Speaker 1: I know is the suffering that I see on my

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00:31:07,960 --> 00:31:13,480
Speaker 1: aunt's face, the loss first of a sister to the

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00:31:13,520 --> 00:31:23,840
Speaker 1: death squads, then of a son to the gangs. As

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00:31:23,920 --> 00:31:27,040
Speaker 1: of this recording, seven of my family members are in

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00:31:27,160 --> 00:31:31,320
Speaker 1: prison for gang related crimes and six have been killed

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00:31:31,400 --> 00:31:41,600
Speaker 1: in gang related violence. I'll be honest here. For most

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00:31:41,640 --> 00:31:45,240
Speaker 1: of my life, Al Salvador felt like a place beyond saving.

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00:31:47,160 --> 00:31:49,280
Speaker 1: My parents have always talked about it with a love

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00:31:49,360 --> 00:31:54,800
Speaker 1: and affection that I didn't understand, like Al Salvador was

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00:31:55,040 --> 00:31:58,840
Speaker 1: the one that got away when they would talk about

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00:31:58,880 --> 00:32:02,280
Speaker 1: wanting to go back there to attire. My first thought

402
00:32:02,400 --> 00:32:12,640
Speaker 1: was always why, what for? But in twenty nineteen something

403
00:32:12,720 --> 00:32:15,920
Speaker 1: happened that changed the way that my parents thought about

404
00:32:15,920 --> 00:32:19,840
Speaker 1: Ol Salvador. They changed the way that the whole world

405
00:32:20,280 --> 00:32:21,280
Speaker 1: thought about Ol Salvador.

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00:32:24,200 --> 00:32:30,280
Speaker 9: Yes, it is Alotoria, he almost excavated. Juntos nostra pais

407
00:32:30,440 --> 00:32:35,240
Speaker 9: is common in your fermo, no stock cala todos quarlo

408
00:32:36,440 --> 00:32:39,760
Speaker 9: no stock coloratos, tom poco, and is in a marga

409
00:32:40,160 --> 00:32:43,920
Speaker 9: no stock aloratoos so freedom poco, no stock aloratos and

410
00:32:44,760 --> 00:32:51,360
Speaker 9: lord as to miRNA starts comermandos saka Atlanta oestra Familia

411
00:32:51,520 --> 00:32:52,720
Speaker 9: and nostro pas.

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00:32:52,920 --> 00:33:01,720
Speaker 1: Salvador President Nai Buke, the self proclaimed world's coolest dictator

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00:33:02,720 --> 00:33:06,880
Speaker 1: and the future of El Salvador. That's on the next

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00:33:06,920 --> 00:33:17,720
Speaker 1: episode of Nation of Saints Sacred Scandal. Nation of Saints

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00:33:17,880 --> 00:33:21,280
Speaker 1: is a production of AJA Podcasts in partnership with Iheart's

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00:33:21,320 --> 00:33:24,600
Speaker 1: Michaultura podcast network, and is hosted and written by me

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00:33:25,040 --> 00:33:30,000
Speaker 1: Jasmine Romero, produced by Jazmin Romero with help from Alvaro Espelees.

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00:33:30,600 --> 00:33:34,720
Speaker 1: Research and reporting by Jasmine Romero, edited by Sayre Kevelo.

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00:33:35,320 --> 00:33:37,440
Speaker 1: Nation of Saints was recorded in New York City at

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00:33:37,480 --> 00:33:40,800
Speaker 1: the Relic Room, with engineering by Brett Tugan. Mixing and

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00:33:40,920 --> 00:33:45,480
Speaker 1: sound designed by Paciquinones. Original music by Golden Mindes, Darko

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00:33:45,640 --> 00:33:50,200
Speaker 1: and Aaeme based on Patrick Hart's original composition, fact checking

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00:33:50,280 --> 00:33:55,320
Speaker 1: by Erendira Aquino Ayala. Executive producers are Carman geratol Isaac

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00:33:55,400 --> 00:33:59,040
Speaker 1: Lee rose Red, and Nando Villa. Our executive producers at

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00:33:59,080 --> 00:34:03,560
Speaker 1: iHeart are Giselle Fansis and Arlene Santana. Sacred Scandal was

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00:34:03,600 --> 00:34:07,720
Speaker 1: created by Melanie Bartley and Baulavadro's. For more podcasts, go

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00:34:07,800 --> 00:34:10,279
Speaker 1: to the iHeartRadio app or anywhere you listen to your

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00:34:10,320 --> 00:34:11,160
Speaker 1: favorite podcasts