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Speaker 1: This program features the individual opinions of the hosts, guests,

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Speaker 1: and callers, and not necessarily those of the producer, the station,

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Speaker 1: it's affiliates, or sponsors. This is True Crime Tonight.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking true

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Speaker 2: crime all the time. I'm Stephanie Leidecker here of course,

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Speaker 2: with Courtney Armstrong and Body Movin on talk Back Tuesday.

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Speaker 2: It is here Tuesday, September twenty third. And listen, guys,

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Speaker 2: we don't even have a stack knight of headlines. We

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Speaker 2: have a stacked night of talkbacks. So this is the

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Speaker 2: one opportunity that we really get to guarantee we're hearing

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Speaker 2: from you at all times, at all costs. Leave us

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Speaker 2: your talkbacks or call us live eight eight h three

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Speaker 2: one crime, jump in, join the conversation. You could also

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Speaker 2: leave us a little message on our social media. Ooh,

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Speaker 2: very exciting. And by the way, we're getting a lot

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Speaker 2: of these. I'm even getting some personal ones right now

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Speaker 2: which are awesome and righteous, and keep them coming at

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Speaker 2: True Crime Tonight's show on Instagram and TikTok or at

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Speaker 2: True Crime Tonight on Facebook. But yes, guys, hi, I

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Speaker 2: really all are well, yes, Tuesday, I'm happy here Tuesday. Listen.

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Speaker 2: TA has been working very hard because he's aggregating stories

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Speaker 2: generated by listeners, which you know he's going to tell

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Speaker 2: us more about later. But it's exciting because remember last night,

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Speaker 2: the Munchausen's conversation was so interesting. I thought, and again

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Speaker 2: were so interesting. I thought, Yeah, it came from the

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Speaker 2: it came from the audience.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, Jordan Hope, former victim of Munchausen by proxy and

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Speaker 3: now advocate.

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Speaker 2: They were amazing. I learned a lot. Yeah, and they

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Speaker 2: came from our audience. So we're trying to just kind

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Speaker 2: of keep this user generated, like, keep the conversation flowing,

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Speaker 2: the conversation and flow. If you have a thought, have

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Speaker 2: an opinion, please jump in. We are all gathered around

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Speaker 2: the same kitchen table having a little coffee clutch right now.

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Speaker 2: So I guess we should go to a talk back.

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Speaker 2: Let's go, let's do it.

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Speaker 4: Hi, this is Kem in Kentucky. I had a thought

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Speaker 4: about the David and salast Or so last if the

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Speaker 4: car indeed was broke down, for instance, potentially a battery,

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Speaker 4: then it wouldn't be recording, right. I mean, I know

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Speaker 4: nothing about Tesla's just a thought I had. Have a

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Speaker 4: great night, ladies.

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Speaker 5: That's an interesting concept that the maybe battery died. But

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Speaker 5: I think those systems work off of different, you know,

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Speaker 5: power sources. If you have a Tesla way in eighty

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Speaker 5: eight thirty one crime. I'm not one hundred percent sure,

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Speaker 5: but I do my understanding is that those work on

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Speaker 5: different power sources, so it wouldn't be like the one

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Speaker 5: main battery that goes dead and now nothing works.

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Speaker 2: And it's a fair question.

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Speaker 3: It's a fair question, you know, because obviously not obviously,

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Speaker 3: but the car, indeed, David's car was found at an

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Speaker 3: in Pound lot and it had been towed after being

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Speaker 3: abandoned on a Hollywood street for quite a little bit.

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Speaker 3: But we'll probably will beg the question of was the

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Speaker 3: car broken down.

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Speaker 2: As you suggest or was it left.

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Speaker 3: Because indeed the person who left it knew that Celeste

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Speaker 3: Reevas's body was in it. And actually we should take

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Speaker 3: this moment to just give a quick update.

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Speaker 2: Let's do it.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, a community visil was held. This happened in Lake Elsinore,

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Speaker 3: right here in California, on Sunday, and that was to

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Speaker 3: honor Celeste Revs Hernandez she's a fifteen year old girl.

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Speaker 3: Her body was discovered in this Tesla Fronk, the front

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Speaker 3: trunk of the singer David So And this, this whole

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Speaker 3: case emerged when authorities found her body inside of David's car,

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Speaker 3: and the media has been all over it and community

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Speaker 3: concerned as well, because it came to bear that Celeste

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Speaker 3: has been missing since April of last year, when she

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Speaker 3: was only thirteen years old. So details do remain somewhat limited.

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Speaker 3: There are many, many questions about the circumstances of celeste

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Speaker 3: death's death and her connection to David, but neither he

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Speaker 3: nor anybody else has yet been publicly named as a suspect.

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Speaker 6: And I find that so interesting.

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Speaker 5: And the fact that this poor teenage girl, and let's

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Speaker 5: be real, she was fourteen, right, because the press and

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Speaker 5: everything and it was fifteen fifteen, But I think she's

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Speaker 5: been in that car longer than a day. And I

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Speaker 5: believe her birthday was like a day prior to her

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Speaker 5: being found, So in all intents and purposes, she's fourteen

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Speaker 5: years old.

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Speaker 6: This is a baby girl.

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Speaker 2: And in the fact that there's no suspects or or

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Speaker 2: any public suspects right that we know about, and we've

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Speaker 2: learned learned that her body was in, you know, a

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Speaker 2: kind of an advanced state of decomp to the point

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Speaker 2: where they couldn't really even tell her ethnicity.

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Speaker 5: So my feeling is that she's been I think what

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Speaker 5: we're going to find, and it's horrific to imagine, but

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Speaker 5: I think what we're going to find is that her

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Speaker 5: she's been in that fronk a lot longer than we suspected.

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Speaker 5: And one thing that comes to mind is I was

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Speaker 5: watching yesterday. I was watching the tesla being towed away

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Speaker 5: from the impound lot, and I noticed there's an air

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Speaker 5: freshener hanging from the rear room mirror, and it's like

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Speaker 5: one of those Christmas tree ones, you know, exactly Listen,

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Speaker 5: I don't know that many teslas that have those hanging

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Speaker 5: from the rear room mirror.

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Speaker 2: Can we say, you're shocking me right now, because we

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Speaker 2: haven't talked about this. I had the exact same thought.

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Speaker 2: Stop it the weird air freshener, which is like the

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Speaker 2: kind we've all had, you know, It's the kind that

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Speaker 2: you get at the car wash or the gas station

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Speaker 2: when you're like, oh, pine fresh. I always choose vanilla,

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Speaker 2: and then regret it because it's so much vanilla. You

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Speaker 2: don't normally see that in a tesla. Right, So tesla's

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Speaker 2: are unique in a few ways. When they have a

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Speaker 2: front trunk, that's unique to most vehicles that have you know,

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Speaker 2: back trunks or hatchbacks. It's small, so it's a tiny space.

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Speaker 2: So you are kind of imagining this. We'll have to

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Speaker 2: ask Joseph Scott Morgan, but you're like smushing a human

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Speaker 2: in there. It's not there's not a lot of space.

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Speaker 2: And even though she was a young girl in very

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Speaker 2: few pounds, which you know we talked about very early

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Speaker 2: on when this body was discovered, that's very very intentional.

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Speaker 2: How could there not be a suspect? The signs of decomposition,

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Speaker 2: the odor alone, to be like relieved in someone's head

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Speaker 2: by an air freshener that looks like a pine tree

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Speaker 2: is absurd. But a tell a tell, and it's two

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Speaker 2: part right, Like this story is seeming like there's parallel

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Speaker 2: paths right now. On the one hand, I mean, it's

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Speaker 2: not great. You're on tour, you're a pop star. You're

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Speaker 2: singing and dancing and having your moment on unfrankly a

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Speaker 2: very important time in your career as this pop star

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Speaker 2: who's you know, very popular, and a body is decomposing

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Speaker 2: in your vehicle real time back in Los Angeles, which

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Speaker 2: was you know, apparently towed very close to your home.

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Speaker 2: That's one narrative. I think if that was a very

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Speaker 2: slam dunk narrative, likely there would have been an arrest

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Speaker 2: made by now right, we've been talking about this for

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Speaker 2: a minute. The alternate side to that, just to put

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Speaker 2: it out there because we don't have the information. The

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Speaker 2: autopsy results or any results from the coroner have not

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Speaker 2: been released, and we're following it very closely. The other

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Speaker 2: side to that is you're this pop star having your

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Speaker 2: big moment and you're finally getting to go on tour,

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Speaker 2: which is the name of the game in the music business.

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Speaker 2: This is the thing not easy to accomplish. You're you're

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Speaker 2: doing it and your car gets stolen or one of

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Speaker 2: your knucklehead friends from yesteryear is staying at your place

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Speaker 2: and borrows your car. I don't know, something happens with

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Speaker 2: your car unrelated to you, and misfortune happens for this

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Speaker 2: beloved girl, Celeste, and then the car danger and you

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Speaker 2: know happens, murder occurs, it's assume air quotes and then

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Speaker 2: the car is towed. Here we are, yes, it's your vehicle,

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Speaker 2: but your career is now over. Like this is a

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Speaker 2: hard one.

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Speaker 7: To put back in the bottle guilty present an alternative

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Speaker 7: to those yes, I guess Please, do you know maybe

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Speaker 7: it was an accident or maybe intentional with like some

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Speaker 7: sort of drug, you know what I mean.

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Speaker 5: And the only reason I say that is because we

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Speaker 5: still don't have a manner of death. And you know what,

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Speaker 5: maybe they're waiting for toxicology. Maybe she had some sort

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Speaker 5: of over there not maybe not even intentional. It could

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Speaker 5: have been maybe given to her even and something like that.

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Speaker 5: I'm not saying that's what happened. Please, don't you know,

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Speaker 5: take to get wrong. But by the way, and they panic.

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Speaker 2: Right, they freak out, and they're like, oh my god,

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Speaker 2: we can't sell anybody. The cops are going to lose

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Speaker 2: their minds.

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Speaker 8: Can't.

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Speaker 2: I'm going on, she's fourteen, and she's fourteen years old,

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Speaker 2: runaway exactly. They're all going to depend it on me.

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Speaker 2: What are we going to do? Dumb brains do dumb things.

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Speaker 2: Here we go. Oh that's a real scenario. There was

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Speaker 2: a time I By the way, I've heard this story

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Speaker 2: firsthand where people were playing in Miami and like everyone's

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Speaker 2: like yeah, party, party, party, and like someone died and

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Speaker 2: everyone panicked and they threw the guy off the balcony.

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Speaker 6: Oh my gosh.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, that's what like the brain something like that, right,

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Speaker 2: something like that. So here's a body discovered, you know,

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Speaker 2: good luck finding it. Maybe it's David adjacent, right, maybe

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Speaker 2: it's not specifically him. That's a really good point about

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Speaker 2: toxicology because correct me if I'm wrong. Toxicology takes a

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Speaker 2: little longer to get the results back, and you have

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Speaker 2: to be pretty specific about the draw you're doing, whether

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Speaker 2: that's you know, a certain Elsta drugs aren't on the

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Speaker 2: regular panel of toxicology. You have to request it. Ooh,

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Speaker 2: I have to think on that. That's interesting.

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Speaker 6: So it's just something I've been thinking about.

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Speaker 3: And also with the arrest, which I know everyone definitely

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Speaker 3: myself included, to keep saying why isn't there some kind

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Speaker 3: of arrest? But that can go and that can really

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Speaker 3: jeopardize the case in court. And there isn't even a

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Speaker 3: confirmed cause of death because of the outstanding autopsy, right,

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Speaker 3: So acting in haste can jeopardize everything in the long run.

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Speaker 6: So all right, and maybe there was no homicide at all.

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Speaker 5: Maybe it's just like you know, abuse of a corpse

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Speaker 5: or something, you know, I mean, we don't know yet.

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Speaker 2: Or even if it is.

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Speaker 3: And I could think of several other cases where people

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Speaker 3: have said, how could you not have arrested so and

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Speaker 3: so who ended up being a suspect, And the answer is,

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Speaker 3: we didn't have enough. And if we don't and we

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Speaker 3: arrest someone and then the person gets out, it's way

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Speaker 3: more detrimental than taking an extra second, which hopefully you

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Speaker 3: will take an extra second to be reminded that this

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Speaker 3: is true crime tonight.

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Speaker 2: And I'm Courtney Armstrong. Here is a.

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Speaker 3: Body move in and Stephanie Ladeker and we're talking about

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Speaker 3: the body of Celeste Revs Hernandez, who is the teenager

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Speaker 3: who very tragically has been found in the singer David's car.

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Speaker 3: We want to hear all of your thoughts. We're at

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Speaker 3: eighty eight three one crime, so give us a call.

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Speaker 2: To that end. Though, let's just be real, no matter

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Speaker 2: what happened to beautiful Celeste, this young girl was shoved

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Speaker 2: in a trunk and left at the side of a

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Speaker 2: road to be towed away and left in said impound

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Speaker 2: like that is off the grid in terms of anything,

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Speaker 2: and it's really upsetting it. I can only imagine her

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Speaker 2: family and friends and we're seeing this from this vigil,

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Speaker 2: childhood friends, friends from kindergarten, all speaking out speaking.

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Speaker 5: She's just a wautiful, wonderful person she was.

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Speaker 2: And you know, when we first started covering this story,

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Speaker 2: even Tahi, I think you said it ninety two pounds,

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Speaker 2: you know, she was such so little, it's so such

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Speaker 2: a little girl. And by the way, because she's a

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Speaker 2: little girl.

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Speaker 8: Well that was part of it. But according to what

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Speaker 8: Joseph said, that a lot of it had to do

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Speaker 8: with decomposing over the time period that body was in

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Speaker 8: the car.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, and you know, in one thing too, we learned

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Speaker 5: from the press only was that she was dismembered.

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Speaker 8: Correct.

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Speaker 5: Now, yesterday I thought we were going to be talking

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Speaker 5: about this a little bit more so I went to

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Speaker 5: a bunch of research. The police have never said that.

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Speaker 5: Police have never said that she was dismembered. And on Sunday,

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Speaker 5: when we had Joseph, I had asked, is it possible

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Speaker 5: they meant like, did she dearticulate from the you know,

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Speaker 5: maybe dcomp and Joseph said. Joseph said, and I think

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Speaker 5: he's right. You know, dismembered is such a specific thing, right,

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Speaker 5: and there would be evidence of that, like tool marks

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Speaker 5: and things like that. So it would be odd for

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Speaker 5: the police to tell the press that she had been

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Speaker 5: dismembered prior to their being kind of any kind of

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Speaker 5: autopsy that was done. So I'm kind of wondering if

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Speaker 5: we're going to learn that it's possibly that it was

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Speaker 5: just the articulation, and that the fifty pound weight losses

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Speaker 5: from the DCOM.

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Speaker 2: And that the fact that this case is in just

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Speaker 2: top of tongue everywhere, it is so grizzly, and the

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Speaker 2: fact that there is not even a suspects or that

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Speaker 2: we're not hearing more information about this wild search for

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Speaker 2: right is in and of itself a tragedy. I feel

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Speaker 2: for her mother and her family. And listen, we did

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Speaker 2: a little I did my digging just a little bit

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Speaker 2: on him, because again, not charged, innocent and in this

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Speaker 2: exact moment, innocent. So we have to be careful. This

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Speaker 2: is a young guy. He's a twenty year old guy.

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Speaker 2: He's a start of his career. What if it's not true,

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Speaker 2: and it's something else. It's a really hard thing to

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Speaker 2: recover from. The only Yeah, go ahead.

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Speaker 8: And I was going to say, but he might be

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Speaker 8: innocent of that, but he was still involved with this

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Speaker 8: fourteen year old. So I can't thirteen do we?

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Speaker 2: We don't fact, Yeah, we don't know that for facts.

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Speaker 2: By the way, there's a couple of things that Tah

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Speaker 2: has pointing to, which are you know, hard to overlook.

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Speaker 2: One Celeste is a name in his lyrics to one

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Speaker 2: of his most you know, prevalent hit songs is yeah.

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Speaker 8: To comicide one of his hit songs.

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Speaker 2: Hard but what a bummer like that? Is not an

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Speaker 2: easy one to get around. You know, this was a

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Speaker 2: kid that was a really beloved guy. He started getting

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Speaker 2: homeschooled at thirteen years old. You know, do the math.

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Speaker 2: I guess that's COVID time, right, but never return to

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Speaker 2: public school. And he has spoken a little bit through

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Speaker 2: lyrics and interviews about isolation, et cetera. So here's a

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Speaker 2: seventh grade brain. Was this seventh grade brain attracting a

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Speaker 2: seventh grade girl despite how much older he's gotten a

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Speaker 2: lots of unpack there? If only I was a therapist,

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Speaker 2: which I am not listen. Can we come back and

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Speaker 2: kind of just wrap this up a little bit and

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Speaker 2: then off to some more talkback guys. It talked bout tuesday.

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Speaker 2: Keep them coming or join us eight eight eighty three

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Speaker 2: One Crime. You're listening to True Crime tonight, True Crime

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Speaker 2: all the time. By the way, new podcast dropping tomorrow

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Speaker 2: in Cells, In Cells, everybody, you gotta listen. Courtney Armstrong,

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Speaker 2: come on at the Helm.

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Speaker 3: It has been I have to say, I feel like

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Speaker 3: collectively we have learned so much about the topic of

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Speaker 3: in cells, which is something we have been circling around

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Speaker 3: for more than half a decade, but it has been

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Speaker 3: staggering how much has been illuminated. And I think it's

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Speaker 3: really it's very interesting, it's very important, and it's extraordinarily timely.

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Speaker 2: So yeah, I would give a listen. I get, body,

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Speaker 2: what do you think like? It's really turned into a

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Speaker 2: larger conversation. Listen.

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Speaker 5: I have said, I have said the term black pilled

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Speaker 5: way more than i'd like last couple of weeks, you know,

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Speaker 5: than I ever thought possible, you know, and explaining what

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Speaker 5: this you know, blue pill, red pill, black pilled has

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Speaker 5: been for quite a while now, so I'm excited for

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Speaker 5: it to come out, and I'm excited for people to

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Speaker 5: learn about, you know, kind of like this epidemic let's

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Speaker 5: call it, you know, as of our youth. Yeah, so

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Speaker 5: I think it's going to be interesting for everyone to

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Speaker 5: listen to.

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Speaker 6: I'm excited for it to come out me too.

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Speaker 2: So tomorrow in Cells, iHeartRadio dropping the podcast, so please,

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Speaker 2: we're so we're so looking forward to listening, and you're

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Speaker 2: getting your feedback. You could even get get in the

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Speaker 2: conversation here after you listen, so you know, we're all

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Speaker 2: sort of in it together and both Courtney Body or

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Speaker 2: Extraordinary on it and listen. So yes, we make podcast

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Speaker 2: documentaries and we get to do it together. Courtney Armstrong

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Speaker 2: Body Move in talk Back Tuesday. So we're talking a

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Speaker 2: lot about this case that again is really an extraordinary

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Speaker 2: one about David the pop star who was on tour

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Speaker 2: no longer is and you know, parallel time his tesla

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Speaker 2: which was impounded in Hollywood Hills. Again, he was not

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Speaker 2: there because he had left to be on tour. The

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Speaker 2: remains of a beautiful young girl was found in the trunk,

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Speaker 2: which is the front part of his trunk of his tesla,

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Speaker 2: decomposing in an impound lot, and now she has been identified,

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Speaker 2: and it's scary stuff, and there doesn't seem to be

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Speaker 2: an arrest imminent, and that in and of itself is curious. Body.

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Speaker 2: I think you said it best. What does that mean?

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Speaker 5: I just sometimes sometimes the absence of information is information,

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Speaker 5: I think. And right now we have a lot of

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Speaker 5: absence of information and a lot of assumptions being made

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Speaker 5: about you know, it was she murdered?

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Speaker 1: Is it him?

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Speaker 5: You know, we don't know anything right now, and I

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Speaker 5: think that is information. I think not knowing her manner

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Speaker 5: death is important. I think that maybe they are waiting

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Speaker 5: on talks because there's been no obvious sign of how

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Speaker 5: she passed. And again we have to remember, this is

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Speaker 5: a fourteen year old little girl. This is a little

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Speaker 5: this is a little girl. A lot of times when

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Speaker 5: we're talking, it's it seems very abstract, right, we're celest

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Speaker 5: Now this is a fourteen year old little girl. She

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Speaker 5: was one hundred and twenty pounds and when she was

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Speaker 5: discovered she was seventy one pounds. So and we've learned

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Speaker 5: through this that it's this advanced state of decomp and

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Speaker 5: this is so disrespectful, you know, to her, her just everything. Anyway,

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Speaker 5: I'm digressing.

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Speaker 3: Did you, Joddy, did you have information on the camera

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Speaker 3: that the landlord had?

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Speaker 2: What was that? Because I don't know anything about it.

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Speaker 5: Well, I read today that the landlord has come out

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Speaker 5: and he said his first name is Malden. I cannot,

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Speaker 5: for the life of me, pronounced his last name, but

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Speaker 5: his first name is Malden. He's like the homeowner and

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Speaker 5: he's the guy who rented the property to the manager.

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Speaker 5: So he said a professional security company had installed multiple

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Speaker 5: cameras years prior. The devices cover all key entry points

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Speaker 5: in the backyard and even the street, creating what he

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Speaker 5: described as an air tight system that would capture anyone

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Speaker 5: coming or going. So apparently all angles are covered. So

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Speaker 5: if there is some kind of suspect activity, I'm hoping

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Speaker 5: they find it. But you guys, if it happened eight

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Speaker 5: months ago, let's say, right, because we don't have for

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Speaker 5: we don't know how long. Right, if it happened eight

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Speaker 5: months ago, I'm not sure. If it's like a system

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Speaker 5: that's you know, over recording itself every week, you know,

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Speaker 5: two weeks, three weeks, whatever, we don't know. It's still

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Speaker 5: an absence of information. But the fact that there's no

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Speaker 5: arrest right now, to me, is it's telling we it's

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Speaker 5: they just don't have enough information themselves.

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Speaker 2: And there's two pieces that I thought were just interesting.

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Speaker 2: They're not. They're not clues. This is nothing for but

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Speaker 2: just like little seeds of this story that have stuck

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Speaker 2: with me. One, this guy seems like a nice guy.

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Speaker 2: He's a pop star. He's under a really big label,

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Speaker 2: same label as like Billie Eilish. This is a big moment,

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Speaker 2: you know again pop star moment. Looking back at his history,

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Speaker 2: he again, we talked about it earlier. Seventh grade, moved

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Speaker 2: to Texas, started being homeschooled. He was on you know,

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Speaker 2: playing games, you know, Fortnite, all the things that he

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Speaker 2: twitched the kids play. He twitched a lot, and he

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Speaker 2: was adding music to those games. Or he was making

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Speaker 2: little videos gaming videos, and then was running into some

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Speaker 2: copyright issues by using other popular musicians. And therefore mom

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Speaker 2: says to him, hey, you should start using your own music.

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Speaker 2: That's a you know, you're very talented, go with it.

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Speaker 2: He's being homeschooled, he starts kind of creating his own

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Speaker 2: music to really add to these like Fortnite, little video

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Speaker 2: game things and a rising star is born. So on

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Speaker 2: the one hand, what a beautiful story. And you can't

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Speaker 2: imagine in your right mind that if you're looking to

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Speaker 2: dump a body of somebody that you love, you would

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Speaker 2: put it in your personal vehicle and let that get impounded.

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Speaker 2: That seems impossible. However, the other side of that, which

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Speaker 2: also feels impossible is the fact that they seem to

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Speaker 2: have a connection. Right, So if in fact what we're

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Speaker 2: hearing is accurate, and there seems to be some photographic

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Speaker 2: proof of this, that this is somebody that was thirteen

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Speaker 2: years old when she met him, and where again, who

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Speaker 2: hasn't dated an older guy at a young girl? Again,

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Speaker 2: that's illegal at this point, where where this is not

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Speaker 2: a older boy. We're out of the territory here, and

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Speaker 2: you know they have matching tattoos. Her name is used

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Speaker 2: in his lyrics. These are hard tells to get around, right,

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Speaker 2: And I'm surprised there hasn't been more kickback or more

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Speaker 2: of an uproar for information. He's canceled his tour. There

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Speaker 2: remaining tour dates are no longer. But that's all we know,

403
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Speaker 2: and very little information it's known about him, So there

404
00:22:10,320 --> 00:22:15,679
Speaker 2: is a you know, his his immediate label is also

405
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Speaker 2: under Interscope, which is a big deal. There's very little

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Speaker 2: to be from that about his family. It's being scrubbed,

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Speaker 2: you know, real time. And by all accounts, the music

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Speaker 2: was great. So what a waste beyond measure and what

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Speaker 2: this beautiful girl could have been in this life and

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Speaker 2: to be left in a vehicle in the front of

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Speaker 2: a trunk is unimaginable and unforgivable.

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Speaker 3: Agreed, Yeah, well, they had some beautiful words. We I

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Speaker 3: just want to leave every one with this, and this

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Speaker 3: is from some of the people who had gathered at

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Speaker 3: the very well populated candlelight vigil to honor Celeste Reavus,

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Speaker 3: and one person said I recognized her because of her big,

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Speaker 3: curly hair with her backpack on the way to school,

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Speaker 3: and another one said, my nephew went to school with

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Speaker 3: her since kindergarten. I just want to say, if it

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Speaker 3: was my daughter, I wouldn't want her to be forgotten.

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Speaker 3: I just want justice for this little girl, because whatever

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Speaker 3: happened to her, it wasn't just an accident, so well said.

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Speaker 3: And we will of course continue updating you as information

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Speaker 3: does come out, because there is a dearth of it

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Speaker 3: right now. But in this moment, shall we turn to

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Speaker 3: another talk back top?

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Speaker 8: Sir, Yeah, let's go to it.

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Speaker 9: So this story that was brought up about the bodies

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Speaker 9: that were found at the funeral homes that weren't being cremated,

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Speaker 9: and it reminds me of the podcast named Noble, which was

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00:23:49,000 --> 00:23:54,800
Speaker 9: an investigation about a funeral home or a cremation center

432
00:23:55,400 --> 00:23:58,840
Speaker 9: that they found over three hundred bodies that weren't being

433
00:23:58,840 --> 00:24:01,080
Speaker 9: cremated in two thousand and two.

434
00:24:03,320 --> 00:24:04,840
Speaker 6: Oh my gosh, another one.

435
00:24:05,280 --> 00:24:06,440
Speaker 2: What is going on?

436
00:24:06,880 --> 00:24:09,439
Speaker 8: This is crazy. It looks like at the end of

437
00:24:09,440 --> 00:24:11,880
Speaker 8: that they said in Georgia, So this is another one.

438
00:24:12,080 --> 00:24:13,480
Speaker 8: I'm not this.

439
00:24:13,440 --> 00:24:15,760
Speaker 2: Case and an abrupt ending to that one.

440
00:24:15,760 --> 00:24:16,560
Speaker 6: But I looked it up.

441
00:24:16,600 --> 00:24:17,760
Speaker 2: It's the podcast Noble.

442
00:24:18,600 --> 00:24:21,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, they found three hundred bodies in Noble, Georgia at

443
00:24:21,680 --> 00:24:22,840
Speaker 3: a cremation home.

444
00:24:22,880 --> 00:24:23,400
Speaker 2: Oh my god.

445
00:24:23,400 --> 00:24:25,920
Speaker 8: I think I think Joseph hinted at this case.

446
00:24:25,960 --> 00:24:28,679
Speaker 5: I think he might have because he did tell us

447
00:24:28,680 --> 00:24:31,320
Speaker 5: to not look it up when we were home alone.

448
00:24:31,520 --> 00:24:33,639
Speaker 8: This was the one. Yes, this is the one.

449
00:24:34,000 --> 00:24:36,119
Speaker 5: I believe, So at least I'm home alone, so I

450
00:24:36,119 --> 00:24:37,879
Speaker 5: didn't look it up. I listened to Joseph.

451
00:24:37,920 --> 00:24:38,840
Speaker 8: I was afraid as well.

452
00:24:39,160 --> 00:24:40,400
Speaker 6: Yeah, I didn't want to look it up.

453
00:24:40,800 --> 00:24:44,160
Speaker 8: This is horrible. I also never heard horrible things.

454
00:24:44,200 --> 00:24:47,000
Speaker 5: Just to bring everybody up to speed. Between twenty ten

455
00:24:47,119 --> 00:24:52,240
Speaker 5: and twenty twenty five, Colorado's funeral industry faced multiple scandals

456
00:24:52,280 --> 00:24:57,360
Speaker 5: involving fraud, body mishandling, and the distribution of fake ashes,

457
00:24:57,400 --> 00:25:01,480
Speaker 5: revealing systematic failures due to like you know, lacks regulation

458
00:25:01,560 --> 00:25:05,600
Speaker 5: in the funeral home industry, and high profile cases.

459
00:25:05,200 --> 00:25:07,520
Speaker 6: In Montrose, Penrose.

460
00:25:06,960 --> 00:25:11,800
Speaker 5: And Pueblo exposed this criminal activity happening at these these

461
00:25:11,800 --> 00:25:19,040
Speaker 5: funeral homes. They were selling body parts and giving customers

462
00:25:19,440 --> 00:25:21,720
Speaker 5: their loved ones back, but they were just like cement

463
00:25:22,000 --> 00:25:23,320
Speaker 5: ashes and things like that.

464
00:25:23,920 --> 00:25:26,560
Speaker 6: So it's been. It was something that we did a

465
00:25:26,600 --> 00:25:28,600
Speaker 6: story on. It's been. It's just terrific.

466
00:25:29,119 --> 00:25:31,040
Speaker 2: You know, it's interesting you guys brought this up and

467
00:25:31,080 --> 00:25:34,600
Speaker 2: you really laid it out so importantly on Sunday. I

468
00:25:34,720 --> 00:25:38,320
Speaker 2: don't see often or ever, and this is just in

469
00:25:38,359 --> 00:25:41,040
Speaker 2: my purview in my personal life. I have never seen

470
00:25:41,200 --> 00:25:45,080
Speaker 2: a plot of land and they're like, hey, you know,

471
00:25:45,280 --> 00:25:49,119
Speaker 2: funeral sites coming your way. You know, it's like I

472
00:25:49,560 --> 00:25:54,000
Speaker 2: know where there are bodies being buried in cemeteries. You know,

473
00:25:54,160 --> 00:25:56,840
Speaker 2: family members included my own father, Like, I know where

474
00:25:56,840 --> 00:26:01,000
Speaker 2: those are, and they're typically like crazy overrun. I never

475
00:26:01,119 --> 00:26:05,360
Speaker 2: see like, hey coming soon. Yeah that's true. I knew cemetery.

476
00:26:06,200 --> 00:26:07,600
Speaker 2: Where are all the bodies going?

477
00:26:08,000 --> 00:26:10,440
Speaker 6: Well, I think most people get creamated nowadays, don't they.

478
00:26:10,800 --> 00:26:14,200
Speaker 2: I don't know if that's totally true, by the way,

479
00:26:14,240 --> 00:26:16,040
Speaker 2: I'm on board, but I sure.

480
00:26:16,040 --> 00:26:19,240
Speaker 3: Look into that because I my understanding the last time

481
00:26:19,280 --> 00:26:21,439
Speaker 3: I did look into this for I'm not sure what

482
00:26:21,520 --> 00:26:25,320
Speaker 3: kind of reason. Yeah there is, I mean, there is

483
00:26:25,800 --> 00:26:28,280
Speaker 3: getting to be a lack of space. It's becoming urgent,

484
00:26:28,359 --> 00:26:31,720
Speaker 3: and I know cremation has come gone up, but I

485
00:26:31,760 --> 00:26:33,119
Speaker 3: don't know if it's the norm.

486
00:26:34,200 --> 00:26:37,320
Speaker 2: So okay, fat this is just a very top line search,

487
00:26:37,440 --> 00:26:39,600
Speaker 2: top of head. So again, if you want to join

488
00:26:39,680 --> 00:26:43,200
Speaker 2: in the conversation, you know differently, the death care industry

489
00:26:43,200 --> 00:26:46,240
Speaker 2: in the US air quotes, By the way, who knew

490
00:26:46,240 --> 00:26:49,280
Speaker 2: that was a thing. It's so scary. Lists one hundred

491
00:26:49,480 --> 00:26:54,360
Speaker 2: and fifteen thousand cemeteries overall in the US. Some sources

492
00:26:54,400 --> 00:26:58,960
Speaker 2: suggest that those only like two twenty two thousand, five

493
00:26:59,040 --> 00:27:00,960
Speaker 2: hundred cemetery are active.

494
00:27:01,320 --> 00:27:02,720
Speaker 6: Oh my gosh.

495
00:27:02,800 --> 00:27:08,240
Speaker 2: So if there's not active space and you are, yeah,

496
00:27:08,440 --> 00:27:10,720
Speaker 2: maybe your religious beliefs or your personal beliefs that you

497
00:27:10,760 --> 00:27:14,440
Speaker 2: believe in, like a coffin being buried, and like a mausoleum,

498
00:27:15,119 --> 00:27:18,520
Speaker 2: all the things right.

499
00:27:18,720 --> 00:27:20,679
Speaker 6: Yeah, where is everybody going?

500
00:27:21,000 --> 00:27:21,200
Speaker 2: Right?

501
00:27:22,200 --> 00:27:25,800
Speaker 5: But my understanding. So I was raised. I was raised

502
00:27:25,840 --> 00:27:29,080
Speaker 5: as a Catholic, and growing up, I was always taught

503
00:27:29,119 --> 00:27:31,439
Speaker 5: that you know earth to earth you have, or you know,

504
00:27:31,600 --> 00:27:34,199
Speaker 5: dust to ashes and whatnot. And then and so we

505
00:27:34,320 --> 00:27:37,399
Speaker 5: when my mom got sick, when we were making her

506
00:27:37,520 --> 00:27:40,159
Speaker 5: arrangements prior to her passing, you know, we kind of

507
00:27:40,160 --> 00:27:44,760
Speaker 5: pre arranged everything. She mentioned to me, Oh the Pope

508
00:27:44,840 --> 00:27:48,120
Speaker 5: said that we can get cremated now, and I think

509
00:27:48,280 --> 00:27:50,600
Speaker 5: and listen, now, this is what she tells me.

510
00:27:50,880 --> 00:27:52,320
Speaker 6: Okay, okay, this is so.

511
00:27:52,320 --> 00:27:54,880
Speaker 2: I don't know if it's true because I'm myself am

512
00:27:54,960 --> 00:27:56,600
Speaker 2: not you know, a practicing.

513
00:27:56,200 --> 00:27:59,879
Speaker 5: Catholic, So I don't know if it's true or not.

514
00:28:00,160 --> 00:28:02,880
Speaker 5: But that's what she tells me about My mom always made.

515
00:28:02,720 --> 00:28:05,480
Speaker 6: Stuff up though. Okay, so let's be let's.

516
00:28:05,400 --> 00:28:07,359
Speaker 5: You know, let's make sure I don't want anybody to

517
00:28:07,400 --> 00:28:09,320
Speaker 5: be offended by what I'm saying. Literally, my mom would

518
00:28:09,320 --> 00:28:10,920
Speaker 5: always just make stuff up and tell me the pope

519
00:28:10,960 --> 00:28:15,720
Speaker 5: that it was okay, now, so. But and if that's true,

520
00:28:16,200 --> 00:28:20,480
Speaker 5: then maybe some people have opted to be cremated now

521
00:28:20,640 --> 00:28:24,359
Speaker 5: instead of being you know, interned in the earth.

522
00:28:24,840 --> 00:28:25,560
Speaker 6: I'm kind of worried.

523
00:28:25,760 --> 00:28:28,000
Speaker 8: I've thought about it, like, I think that would be

524
00:28:28,040 --> 00:28:30,679
Speaker 8: a choice. I would go with this cremation just for

525
00:28:30,720 --> 00:28:32,520
Speaker 8: a lot of the reasons we're talking about, like it

526
00:28:32,560 --> 00:28:34,840
Speaker 8: it just feels like, I don't know, I feel it

527
00:28:35,320 --> 00:28:38,960
Speaker 8: feels like a better way for the environment in some way,

528
00:28:39,000 --> 00:28:43,200
Speaker 8: shape or form. But I don't know. I I've thought

529
00:28:43,200 --> 00:28:44,560
Speaker 8: about it a little bit, but not too much.

530
00:28:45,080 --> 00:28:47,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, there's many options in this one I haven't looked into,

531
00:28:47,720 --> 00:28:51,040
Speaker 3: but I guess there's safe and sanitary ways that you

532
00:28:51,080 --> 00:28:55,640
Speaker 3: can your remains can go to help nourish a tree, growing.

533
00:28:58,160 --> 00:29:03,040
Speaker 5: Biodet kind of and things like that too that are available,

534
00:29:03,640 --> 00:29:07,360
Speaker 5: even for you know, burial at sea. Mm hmmm, because

535
00:29:07,360 --> 00:29:10,239
Speaker 5: that's also an option. So I think people are, just

536
00:29:10,320 --> 00:29:12,200
Speaker 5: like you know, with the Internet, I think people are

537
00:29:12,240 --> 00:29:17,560
Speaker 5: just maybe exploring alternative, alternative way burial in internment things.

538
00:29:17,600 --> 00:29:19,800
Speaker 5: I think that's probably what's happening. I don't know, but

539
00:29:19,840 --> 00:29:24,160
Speaker 5: this Colorado story is it's cifying. It makes me want

540
00:29:24,160 --> 00:29:30,240
Speaker 5: to They were giving, they were giving loved ones. Fake

541
00:29:30,280 --> 00:29:36,240
Speaker 5: ash is made of hardened concrete. And this guy, John Halford,

542
00:29:36,320 --> 00:29:41,000
Speaker 5: he received twenty years in jail on an unrelated fraud case,

543
00:29:41,000 --> 00:29:42,520
Speaker 5: but he was like running this phone.

544
00:29:42,840 --> 00:29:45,120
Speaker 8: Well, he can't go to jail long enough. In my opinion, no,

545
00:29:45,160 --> 00:29:45,600
Speaker 8: I do that.

546
00:29:46,360 --> 00:29:47,200
Speaker 6: I can't tell you.

547
00:29:47,240 --> 00:29:49,880
Speaker 5: The comfort it gives me to have my mom, who,

548
00:29:49,920 --> 00:29:51,720
Speaker 5: by the way, I adored even though she lied to

549
00:29:51,800 --> 00:29:52,120
Speaker 5: me all.

550
00:29:52,000 --> 00:29:52,880
Speaker 6: The time about the pope.

551
00:29:53,240 --> 00:29:53,960
Speaker 2: That's a good mom.

552
00:29:56,240 --> 00:29:58,320
Speaker 5: I can't but it gives me great comfort to have

553
00:29:58,520 --> 00:30:00,480
Speaker 5: her ashes with me at all time, you know what

554
00:30:00,520 --> 00:30:00,840
Speaker 5: I mean.

555
00:30:01,160 --> 00:30:03,880
Speaker 6: I even got a tattoo with her ashes.

556
00:30:04,160 --> 00:30:06,280
Speaker 8: You mentioned that. I've never heard that before. So you

557
00:30:06,320 --> 00:30:07,880
Speaker 8: can take some of the ashes.

558
00:30:07,600 --> 00:30:09,640
Speaker 5: And I don't know if it's legal, but I'm kind

559
00:30:09,640 --> 00:30:12,560
Speaker 5: of friends with my artist. But they take the ashes

560
00:30:12,600 --> 00:30:14,800
Speaker 5: and they kind of sprinkle it in the whatever ink

561
00:30:14,840 --> 00:30:16,800
Speaker 5: you're going to be using, and they mix it up,

562
00:30:17,120 --> 00:30:18,880
Speaker 5: and then you get a tattoo with that ink and

563
00:30:18,920 --> 00:30:20,040
Speaker 5: now the ashes are party.

564
00:30:20,080 --> 00:30:21,520
Speaker 6: But again, like, I don't know if that's an I

565
00:30:21,520 --> 00:30:21,920
Speaker 6: don't know.

566
00:30:21,840 --> 00:30:24,200
Speaker 8: For us to do that, okay, but I think that's

567
00:30:24,240 --> 00:30:24,840
Speaker 8: so beautiful.

568
00:30:24,840 --> 00:30:28,120
Speaker 3: Your secret, Your secret is safe, and I'm sure if

569
00:30:28,120 --> 00:30:30,920
Speaker 3: the Pope heard, he would approve, he would forgive us.

570
00:30:31,120 --> 00:30:35,400
Speaker 2: We're talking true crime all the time on talk back Tuesday,

571
00:30:35,520 --> 00:30:37,400
Speaker 2: which is where you guys get to air it all out.

572
00:30:37,480 --> 00:30:40,600
Speaker 2: Go ahead, bring us your questions, your thoughts, your opinions.

573
00:30:40,640 --> 00:30:44,840
Speaker 2: We want to hear them. Eight eight eight three one crime. Listen.

574
00:30:45,000 --> 00:30:47,920
Speaker 2: It feels like an unsafe time, but this is a

575
00:30:48,040 --> 00:30:52,160
Speaker 2: very safe place, So gather around. Come on in, let's

576
00:30:52,240 --> 00:30:57,440
Speaker 2: unpack some forensics and discuss important things. So join the

577
00:30:57,480 --> 00:30:59,960
Speaker 2: conversation and let's say, let's go straight to a talk back.

578
00:31:00,720 --> 00:31:03,600
Speaker 10: I think that's highly calling from Australia. I'm just in

579
00:31:03,640 --> 00:31:07,400
Speaker 10: regards to the Menendez mon parole. I know there's people

580
00:31:07,400 --> 00:31:10,040
Speaker 10: that think they should still be in there and why

581
00:31:10,080 --> 00:31:13,560
Speaker 10: the boys did it, But unless you're actually a survivor

582
00:31:13,680 --> 00:31:17,200
Speaker 10: of domestic abuse or child abuse.

583
00:31:17,480 --> 00:31:23,520
Speaker 2: You don't really understand how people react by the way

584
00:31:23,560 --> 00:31:24,640
Speaker 2: that's accurate.

585
00:31:25,520 --> 00:31:28,120
Speaker 5: I mean, I don't think there's a cookie cutter answer

586
00:31:28,160 --> 00:31:31,800
Speaker 5: either to how you react to those kinds of abuses

587
00:31:31,880 --> 00:31:34,720
Speaker 5: as a child, right, everyone reacts to and I don't

588
00:31:34,720 --> 00:31:40,000
Speaker 5: think listen, I just don't think vigilante justice is something

589
00:31:40,040 --> 00:31:46,200
Speaker 5: that we should number one applaud or number two forgive lightly.

590
00:31:48,040 --> 00:31:51,280
Speaker 3: That's just my can you can? I so can? I ask,

591
00:31:51,360 --> 00:31:53,480
Speaker 3: and I don't know if what my answer would be,

592
00:31:54,600 --> 00:31:58,680
Speaker 3: But do you do you think there should be such

593
00:31:58,680 --> 00:32:03,280
Speaker 3: a thing as mitigated mitigating circumstance? So, okay, we have

594
00:32:03,320 --> 00:32:06,560
Speaker 3: one dead body and they are shot, and they were

595
00:32:06,600 --> 00:32:10,560
Speaker 3: a stranger too, said murderer. There is another dead body

596
00:32:10,800 --> 00:32:16,320
Speaker 3: and they are the let's say romantic partner who perhaps

597
00:32:16,920 --> 00:32:20,240
Speaker 3: you know, physically and sexually abuse them for fifteen years.

598
00:32:20,720 --> 00:32:24,040
Speaker 3: Would you consider considering that as a mitigating factor.

599
00:32:24,400 --> 00:32:26,840
Speaker 6: It depends on if it was premeditated or not.

600
00:32:28,680 --> 00:32:32,640
Speaker 5: If it was premeditated, If it was premeditated and they

601
00:32:32,720 --> 00:32:36,440
Speaker 5: had every and ample opportunity to leave or you know,

602
00:32:37,320 --> 00:32:39,400
Speaker 5: get the police involved or whatever, then I don't really

603
00:32:39,400 --> 00:32:40,560
Speaker 5: necessarily think it's mitigated.

604
00:32:41,600 --> 00:32:44,680
Speaker 3: That's a fair stance, And you know that I do

605
00:32:44,760 --> 00:32:47,040
Speaker 3: disagree with that. I do disagree with because I think

606
00:32:47,040 --> 00:32:51,320
Speaker 3: people their circumstances, you can get in so deep that

607
00:32:51,360 --> 00:32:55,280
Speaker 3: you can't see out of it. And I think it's,

608
00:32:56,120 --> 00:32:59,240
Speaker 3: you know, part of why people do hear victims' impact

609
00:32:59,280 --> 00:33:02,280
Speaker 3: statements work, and those can go both sides. So I

610
00:33:02,320 --> 00:33:06,040
Speaker 3: think tomorrow will be talking about Diddy. You know why

611
00:33:06,040 --> 00:33:09,080
Speaker 3: people should be let in or let out. And I

612
00:33:09,080 --> 00:33:09,640
Speaker 3: don't know.

613
00:33:10,040 --> 00:33:13,240
Speaker 2: Does the origin story matter? Right? So like this is

614
00:33:13,320 --> 00:33:16,800
Speaker 2: the root of all stories. We're here, every movie, every song.

615
00:33:17,240 --> 00:33:19,320
Speaker 2: You know, I'm going to get this wrong. And this

616
00:33:19,360 --> 00:33:22,400
Speaker 2: is not an original thought. I'm quoting something, probably incorrectly,

617
00:33:22,440 --> 00:33:26,520
Speaker 2: But both the hero and the villain typically have the

618
00:33:26,560 --> 00:33:33,600
Speaker 2: same origin story. One uses that origin story to do

619
00:33:33,840 --> 00:33:39,080
Speaker 2: bad and get revenge and let everything and everyone else

620
00:33:39,160 --> 00:33:42,920
Speaker 2: feel their pain, and the other uses it as fuel

621
00:33:43,280 --> 00:33:46,240
Speaker 2: to be a hero and make the world better and

622
00:33:46,360 --> 00:33:50,080
Speaker 2: protect others because often those who are wounded the most

623
00:33:50,200 --> 00:33:55,480
Speaker 2: become the biggest healers, sadly or not sadly, Like you know,

624
00:33:55,520 --> 00:33:58,800
Speaker 2: your mess becomes your message. This is not an opinion.

625
00:33:58,960 --> 00:34:01,960
Speaker 2: I just I wonder. And in the Menanda's Brothers specifically,

626
00:34:02,640 --> 00:34:06,400
Speaker 2: you know, there's like frontal lobe and judgment and young

627
00:34:06,480 --> 00:34:10,279
Speaker 2: boys and I don't know, you know, we've got I've

628
00:34:10,360 --> 00:34:14,239
Speaker 2: personally have gotten a lot of information and dms, specifically

629
00:34:14,239 --> 00:34:18,719
Speaker 2: about our episode last night about Munchausen's bike really and

630
00:34:18,920 --> 00:34:22,399
Speaker 2: the impact of a mother and one thing it stuck

631
00:34:22,560 --> 00:34:25,120
Speaker 2: with me, which is a stat And again, I hope

632
00:34:25,120 --> 00:34:27,000
Speaker 2: I'm not getting this wrong, And jump in if I am,

633
00:34:27,560 --> 00:34:32,960
Speaker 2: but a therapist DMed me, if I was smart enough

634
00:34:32,960 --> 00:34:34,600
Speaker 2: to pull it up real time, I would, and maybe

635
00:34:34,640 --> 00:34:38,520
Speaker 2: we'll have her on but that she has interviewed ninety

636
00:34:38,640 --> 00:34:42,480
Speaker 2: nine patients of her own. So it's a small microcosm

637
00:34:42,920 --> 00:34:47,640
Speaker 2: of people who were sexually abused by a parent the

638
00:34:47,760 --> 00:34:50,920
Speaker 2: dad in all of these cases, ninety nine cases, and

639
00:34:51,040 --> 00:34:57,120
Speaker 2: mom knew, and mom was aware that this was happening

640
00:34:57,360 --> 00:35:01,640
Speaker 2: and did nothing to stop it. Only one of those

641
00:35:01,680 --> 00:35:05,120
Speaker 2: patients out of ninety nine, only one mother said let's

642
00:35:05,200 --> 00:35:08,560
Speaker 2: leave them what I choose my kids over him?

643
00:35:09,120 --> 00:35:09,759
Speaker 5: Only one.

644
00:35:10,600 --> 00:35:14,080
Speaker 2: So again, this is not a forigna fiuthentis recommend think

645
00:35:14,120 --> 00:35:16,640
Speaker 2: about that. So I don't know what hit me terrible?

646
00:35:16,760 --> 00:35:18,640
Speaker 2: You know you don't think so now here are the

647
00:35:18,680 --> 00:35:21,560
Speaker 2: Menanda's brothers. By the way, I've not been all pro

648
00:35:21,680 --> 00:35:24,400
Speaker 2: letting the Menanda's brothers free. I find it very complicated.

649
00:35:24,960 --> 00:35:28,319
Speaker 2: I have been swayed by all the conversations we've had

650
00:35:28,360 --> 00:35:31,239
Speaker 2: about it, frankly, so I'm kind of coming to these

651
00:35:31,239 --> 00:35:34,920
Speaker 2: thoughts real time. So please, you know, offer me the

652
00:35:34,960 --> 00:35:38,000
Speaker 2: grace to kind of understand it myself. But here you are,

653
00:35:38,040 --> 00:35:41,880
Speaker 2: you're two young men. You're up against it. Dad is

654
00:35:42,200 --> 00:35:45,480
Speaker 2: a nightmare by on every level, the worst nightmare you

655
00:35:45,480 --> 00:35:49,279
Speaker 2: could imagine. And it's very powerful, by the way, right,

656
00:35:49,560 --> 00:35:53,279
Speaker 2: very powerful, very rich, very domineering, check check check, check,

657
00:35:53,360 --> 00:35:56,320
Speaker 2: check all the boxes, and also revered by the public

658
00:35:56,560 --> 00:36:00,160
Speaker 2: all the things. And Mom, who's your one source to

659
00:36:00,200 --> 00:36:02,759
Speaker 2: you as a young boys, you know you look up to,

660
00:36:02,800 --> 00:36:05,520
Speaker 2: you want to be saved by. And if what this

661
00:36:05,719 --> 00:36:10,399
Speaker 2: is true, that mom looks the other way, that is

662
00:36:10,560 --> 00:36:14,440
Speaker 2: really hard also, and I guess to our talkbacks point,

663
00:36:15,080 --> 00:36:18,600
Speaker 2: it is very difficult for anyone who has not experienced

664
00:36:18,640 --> 00:36:24,080
Speaker 2: that real hand, real personally to understand, right. And I

665
00:36:24,080 --> 00:36:26,200
Speaker 2: think that's why it's so important that we can keep

666
00:36:26,239 --> 00:36:28,640
Speaker 2: talking about this case. Maybe why the Menanda's brothers are

667
00:36:28,640 --> 00:36:32,839
Speaker 2: so valuable despite whether they're behind bars are home, they

668
00:36:32,920 --> 00:36:36,440
Speaker 2: are creating a very real conversation about things that happen

669
00:36:36,719 --> 00:36:39,880
Speaker 2: in the dark or behind closed doors. That's probably a

670
00:36:39,920 --> 00:36:42,960
Speaker 2: little more prevalent than we think it is.

671
00:36:43,160 --> 00:36:45,960
Speaker 3: It is prevalent. I mean, the statistics don't have top

672
00:36:46,000 --> 00:36:49,680
Speaker 3: of my head, but it is. It's shocking how how

673
00:36:49,760 --> 00:36:52,239
Speaker 3: much abuse is given at the hands of people who

674
00:36:52,280 --> 00:36:57,239
Speaker 3: are either very close if not related. But you know,

675
00:36:57,320 --> 00:37:01,840
Speaker 3: these circumstances. They are so complicated. I remember several weeks

676
00:37:01,920 --> 00:37:05,840
Speaker 3: back someone had called in and they made they made

677
00:37:06,080 --> 00:37:10,120
Speaker 3: a clear distinction which I could understand between Dad, the

678
00:37:10,160 --> 00:37:17,960
Speaker 3: actual abuser, and mom, Kitty Menandez who by by accounts

679
00:37:18,040 --> 00:37:19,440
Speaker 3: idly sat by and let it go.

680
00:37:19,600 --> 00:37:23,480
Speaker 2: And to me, that is one in the same and

681
00:37:23,560 --> 00:37:24,200
Speaker 2: how many.

682
00:37:24,000 --> 00:37:27,600
Speaker 3: People happen to agree and a lot of people wouldn't,

683
00:37:27,600 --> 00:37:29,600
Speaker 3: but it's one and the same. You are you know,

684
00:37:29,640 --> 00:37:33,080
Speaker 3: as you said, this is your mother who is supposed

685
00:37:33,160 --> 00:37:34,640
Speaker 3: to be a haven.

686
00:37:35,040 --> 00:37:37,960
Speaker 2: And your frontal lobes. Suddenly I'm a scientist, but like

687
00:37:37,960 --> 00:37:40,239
Speaker 2: your frontal lobes not being I mean, I should not

688
00:37:40,239 --> 00:37:42,680
Speaker 2: be talking to friendtal lobes. But to be true, I've

689
00:37:42,719 --> 00:37:45,560
Speaker 2: heard this. This is I am sure of this, you know,

690
00:37:45,800 --> 00:37:49,440
Speaker 2: especially for boys and young men. And again they weren't twelve,

691
00:37:49,480 --> 00:37:54,880
Speaker 2: they were, you know, closing adulthood. However, your frontal lobes

692
00:37:55,200 --> 00:37:59,799
Speaker 2: allegedly are not fully formed, meaning you don't fully get consequence.

693
00:38:00,600 --> 00:38:03,000
Speaker 2: You don't really fully get it, like you don't really know,

694
00:38:03,239 --> 00:38:05,680
Speaker 2: you don't really get it. So this speaks to premeditation.

695
00:38:06,320 --> 00:38:09,880
Speaker 2: This was a wild overkill. Those guys, they knew what

696
00:38:09,880 --> 00:38:11,400
Speaker 2: they were doing. They knew what the plan was, They

697
00:38:11,440 --> 00:38:13,759
Speaker 2: went to the movies that night, they bought the firearms.

698
00:38:13,800 --> 00:38:16,480
Speaker 2: They knew this was it, this was so there wasn't

699
00:38:16,520 --> 00:38:21,080
Speaker 2: a frenzied moment. However, imagine the hell you must be

700
00:38:21,200 --> 00:38:25,279
Speaker 2: in the cage you must find yourself in emotionally when

701
00:38:25,320 --> 00:38:27,919
Speaker 2: you don't feel as though there's anywhere to turn. And

702
00:38:28,520 --> 00:38:31,640
Speaker 2: we don't have a show like ours or any conversations

703
00:38:31,719 --> 00:38:35,320
Speaker 2: about you know, sexual abuse specifically for boys.

704
00:38:35,719 --> 00:38:36,200
Speaker 6: That's true.

705
00:38:36,360 --> 00:38:38,359
Speaker 2: I don't want to underestimate, because you know what I

706
00:38:38,400 --> 00:38:41,680
Speaker 2: think about all victims, right, but it is an interesting

707
00:38:41,719 --> 00:38:44,800
Speaker 2: thing that I think is also worth us discussing throughout forever.

708
00:38:45,440 --> 00:38:48,480
Speaker 2: Is you know, young boys really don't have the language.

709
00:38:48,640 --> 00:38:49,959
Speaker 6: They really don't. That's true.

710
00:38:49,960 --> 00:38:53,880
Speaker 5: It's a really unfair you know, spin, not spin, but

711
00:38:53,920 --> 00:38:56,480
Speaker 5: it's a really unfair angle that boys have, right because

712
00:38:56,520 --> 00:38:58,000
Speaker 5: and it's they're weak.

713
00:38:58,160 --> 00:39:00,160
Speaker 2: No, it's not. Yeah, that's not true at all. By

714
00:39:00,160 --> 00:39:01,680
Speaker 2: the way, Pilo on the shame, By the way, I

715
00:39:01,680 --> 00:39:06,279
Speaker 2: believe shame is a sign of nobility. You know, it's

716
00:39:06,320 --> 00:39:10,520
Speaker 2: a signal I feel like something's not right. Therefore, because

717
00:39:10,520 --> 00:39:13,719
Speaker 2: my if you don't have that, you're probably a psychopath. Right.

718
00:39:13,760 --> 00:39:15,520
Speaker 2: If you feel like there's no shame in the game,

719
00:39:15,800 --> 00:39:19,480
Speaker 2: that's a sign that you're maybe there's something off. But

720
00:39:19,520 --> 00:39:21,960
Speaker 2: if you're feeling that shame, I think it's a sign

721
00:39:22,000 --> 00:39:24,600
Speaker 2: that like you're bribing some help. You want to scream

722
00:39:24,600 --> 00:39:27,640
Speaker 2: it from the rooftops. Now mom is ignoring it. That's

723
00:39:27,680 --> 00:39:31,680
Speaker 2: a tough one. I'm not saying. Free the Menendez. I

724
00:39:31,680 --> 00:39:33,400
Speaker 2: don't know where I think on this. I don't know what.

725
00:39:33,440 --> 00:39:35,960
Speaker 2: I don't have a stand agenda.

726
00:39:36,280 --> 00:39:39,360
Speaker 5: We talked about like mitigating circumstances, like Courtney brought up,

727
00:39:39,400 --> 00:39:41,800
Speaker 5: and I think that I think that's really important Courtney,

728
00:39:41,800 --> 00:39:45,120
Speaker 5: what you brought up, Like, you know, do you consider

729
00:39:45,200 --> 00:39:47,880
Speaker 5: mitigating circumstances when you're kind of like making a judgment

730
00:39:47,920 --> 00:39:52,719
Speaker 5: about people? And certainly yes, I do think specifically with

731
00:39:52,760 --> 00:39:57,240
Speaker 5: the Menenda's case, I do think that this note should

732
00:39:57,239 --> 00:39:59,960
Speaker 5: have been admitted into court. I think their habeus coret.

733
00:40:00,600 --> 00:40:01,920
Speaker 5: I think they should have gotten relief.

734
00:40:02,400 --> 00:40:02,719
Speaker 8: I do.

735
00:40:02,760 --> 00:40:05,560
Speaker 5: I think that in my opinion, And again I'm not

736
00:40:06,280 --> 00:40:07,920
Speaker 5: a judge, but in my opinion.

737
00:40:07,680 --> 00:40:10,880
Speaker 6: I think the judge aired in this decision.

738
00:40:11,400 --> 00:40:12,000
Speaker 8: I think you.

739
00:40:11,960 --> 00:40:15,960
Speaker 5: Too, But I do think that they should have been

740
00:40:16,000 --> 00:40:20,239
Speaker 5: sentenced to jail. You know for their crimes because they

741
00:40:20,280 --> 00:40:24,120
Speaker 5: this was a premeditated murder. They were out looking for

742
00:40:24,200 --> 00:40:26,799
Speaker 5: these guns for days. They were driving all of they

743
00:40:26,880 --> 00:40:28,760
Speaker 5: drove all the way to San Diego to bud these guns.

744
00:40:29,000 --> 00:40:30,799
Speaker 5: They knew what they were doing, They knew what they

745
00:40:30,800 --> 00:40:32,480
Speaker 5: were doing was wrong because they tried to hide it

746
00:40:32,520 --> 00:40:35,799
Speaker 5: and cover it up, right, you know, but there are

747
00:40:35,920 --> 00:40:39,680
Speaker 5: mitigating circumstances even with the premeditation.

748
00:40:39,280 --> 00:40:43,759
Speaker 6: Right right there. Point and Courtney's point, right, so.

749
00:40:43,760 --> 00:40:47,279
Speaker 8: Both right, if you've suffered abuse for so long that

750
00:40:47,360 --> 00:40:49,360
Speaker 8: if it becomes a point like I don't see a

751
00:40:49,400 --> 00:40:52,360
Speaker 8: way out, and I think Courtney, you were mentioning, you know,

752
00:40:52,400 --> 00:40:55,200
Speaker 8: they saw the mother as almost the same I almost

753
00:40:55,320 --> 00:40:57,480
Speaker 8: recalled that was one of the brothers that said something

754
00:40:57,480 --> 00:40:58,080
Speaker 8: to that.

755
00:40:58,080 --> 00:41:02,080
Speaker 2: That's true, and there's right, that's in their most recent hearings.

756
00:41:02,440 --> 00:41:05,319
Speaker 2: And by the way, I'm not suggesting that I don't

757
00:41:05,320 --> 00:41:08,160
Speaker 2: know the answer here, but it's a complicated one because

758
00:41:08,360 --> 00:41:12,560
Speaker 2: are we now opening that conversation to everybody serving time

759
00:41:12,719 --> 00:41:16,320
Speaker 2: for murder behind bars? Just their origin story now become

760
00:41:16,360 --> 00:41:20,880
Speaker 2: a mitigating circumstance. By the way, good luck having that conversation,

761
00:41:21,000 --> 00:41:23,680
Speaker 2: because I would be pretty sure to say anybody who's

762
00:41:23,719 --> 00:41:28,520
Speaker 2: capable of committing that crime has a mitigating circumstance by

763
00:41:28,560 --> 00:41:32,719
Speaker 2: their assertion, right, So who gets to decide that's complicated?

764
00:41:33,160 --> 00:41:38,080
Speaker 2: And then the other being that, Yeah, those guys, it

765
00:41:38,120 --> 00:41:40,879
Speaker 2: was a little premeditated, and I feel bad for them

766
00:41:40,880 --> 00:41:43,680
Speaker 2: for this. For sure. I think they were given a

767
00:41:43,719 --> 00:41:48,400
Speaker 2: lot of false hope about getting home, and boy, it

768
00:41:48,440 --> 00:41:51,279
Speaker 2: must be tough to reacclimate into the reality of what

769
00:41:51,400 --> 00:41:53,560
Speaker 2: they're now facing, which is a lot of still time

770
00:41:53,640 --> 00:41:57,840
Speaker 2: ahead even if they're freed soon that year, a couple

771
00:41:57,880 --> 00:42:00,120
Speaker 2: of years. Can you imagine a couple of years when

772
00:42:00,160 --> 00:42:04,520
Speaker 2: you think four days? The last mile is the hardest.

773
00:42:04,560 --> 00:42:07,319
Speaker 2: As a non marathon runner, I have been told the

774
00:42:07,400 --> 00:42:11,479
Speaker 2: last mile is the hardest, and I'm like, after twenty

775
00:42:11,520 --> 00:42:14,040
Speaker 2: thousand miles, how hard could it be? But like, yeah,

776
00:42:14,120 --> 00:42:17,040
Speaker 2: now last mile is the hardest. Well, listen, we would

777
00:42:17,040 --> 00:42:17,840
Speaker 2: love to hear from you.

778
00:42:17,920 --> 00:42:21,200
Speaker 3: We're talking now about the Menendez brothers, and we have

779
00:42:21,440 --> 00:42:24,799
Speaker 3: much more to talk about all evening, including whatever is

780
00:42:24,840 --> 00:42:26,839
Speaker 3: on your mind. To give us a call eighty eight

781
00:42:26,960 --> 00:42:30,160
Speaker 3: three to one crime and should we go to I

782
00:42:30,160 --> 00:42:32,520
Speaker 3: think you had said there was another talkback guys.

783
00:42:33,200 --> 00:42:34,759
Speaker 8: Yeah, I think we have another one we can go

784
00:42:34,800 --> 00:42:35,359
Speaker 8: to right now.

785
00:42:36,239 --> 00:42:38,640
Speaker 2: I think the Mendez brothers deserve another trial.

786
00:42:38,760 --> 00:42:40,880
Speaker 11: Gipsy Rose helped murder her mother.

787
00:42:40,760 --> 00:42:44,360
Speaker 2: By manipulating someone, and she is out of prison, and

788
00:42:44,400 --> 00:42:47,879
Speaker 2: the Mendez brothers have to serve life. And I don't

789
00:42:47,880 --> 00:42:53,799
Speaker 2: think that's fair. I mean, it's hard to disagree. Origin story, yeah,

790
00:42:54,000 --> 00:42:56,799
Speaker 2: origin stories, it plays, it plays in here too.

791
00:42:56,880 --> 00:43:00,200
Speaker 6: But Gypsy served her trom it was seven years.

792
00:43:00,360 --> 00:43:02,560
Speaker 5: I know, I'm just saying, but the Menanda's brothers have

793
00:43:02,640 --> 00:43:03,960
Speaker 5: not served their term.

794
00:43:04,600 --> 00:43:06,879
Speaker 2: It was life. I mean, those are those are that's

795
00:43:06,880 --> 00:43:10,200
Speaker 2: a sentencing issue, right, So I'm just like to say,

796
00:43:10,320 --> 00:43:11,959
Speaker 2: by the way, Gypsy's been through it. We talked about

797
00:43:11,960 --> 00:43:15,920
Speaker 2: Bunchausen's last night. She was being you know, essentially tortured

798
00:43:15,960 --> 00:43:19,040
Speaker 2: by her own mother, who she eventually kicked back on.

799
00:43:19,600 --> 00:43:21,839
Speaker 2: But the tricky part with Gypsy Rose, if you don't

800
00:43:21,880 --> 00:43:25,200
Speaker 2: know the story, she she had her mother killed by

801
00:43:25,200 --> 00:43:28,360
Speaker 2: her boyfriend, got him the tool, you know, like she

802
00:43:28,560 --> 00:43:31,680
Speaker 2: like got this guy, you know under She's had her

803
00:43:31,800 --> 00:43:34,680
Speaker 2: very tough origin story, but she like sets the boyfriend

804
00:43:34,760 --> 00:43:37,480
Speaker 2: up to do the dirty work. She gets released after

805
00:43:37,600 --> 00:43:40,279
Speaker 2: I believe it's seven years, seven years. Yeah, and then

806
00:43:40,480 --> 00:43:42,320
Speaker 2: the boyfriends still behind bars for life.

807
00:43:42,680 --> 00:43:45,280
Speaker 5: And he's you know, challenged, right.

808
00:43:45,400 --> 00:43:49,680
Speaker 2: Right, he had a que he had a very low IQ.

809
00:43:50,600 --> 00:43:53,799
Speaker 5: And so she manipulated him, right, she manipulated him to

810
00:43:53,800 --> 00:43:56,080
Speaker 5: do her dirty work. And so I agree and that

811
00:43:56,160 --> 00:43:59,319
Speaker 5: with the talkback, But I don't agree. I agree with

812
00:43:59,320 --> 00:44:01,239
Speaker 5: the talkback in a way that you might not imagine.

813
00:44:01,560 --> 00:44:03,560
Speaker 5: I agree with the talk back in the sense that

814
00:44:04,000 --> 00:44:06,640
Speaker 5: Gypsy Rose got out. Yeah, I don't think she should have.

815
00:44:06,719 --> 00:44:09,400
Speaker 5: I think she should have been sentenced longer than she got.

816
00:44:09,880 --> 00:44:14,560
Speaker 5: But I think the Menendez brothers at this point have

817
00:44:14,680 --> 00:44:15,319
Speaker 5: served their term.

818
00:44:15,960 --> 00:44:18,920
Speaker 2: But yeah, yeah, And by the way, Gypsy Rose I

819
00:44:18,960 --> 00:44:22,080
Speaker 2: find interesting. You know, I watch all her shows. I

820
00:44:22,360 --> 00:44:24,400
Speaker 2: really had a baby. I feel like I know so

821
00:44:24,480 --> 00:44:26,120
Speaker 2: much about Gypsy Rose. I could talk about it for

822
00:44:26,200 --> 00:44:28,920
Speaker 2: ten years, really see, and I'm like interested in so

823
00:44:29,120 --> 00:44:32,200
Speaker 2: annoying to me, I just can't watch her. I like,

824
00:44:32,600 --> 00:44:34,600
Speaker 2: I don't know. I do have a soft spot for

825
00:44:34,960 --> 00:44:37,960
Speaker 2: and there is something slightly annoying about the fact that

826
00:44:38,040 --> 00:44:40,320
Speaker 2: she killed her mother and is like out and about

827
00:44:40,320 --> 00:44:42,799
Speaker 2: living on Instagram. She has settled on that, I think

828
00:44:42,840 --> 00:44:44,839
Speaker 2: a bit after she.

829
00:44:44,800 --> 00:44:46,720
Speaker 6: Made a bunch of money on it.

830
00:44:46,880 --> 00:44:50,480
Speaker 3: Fair, I am curs she also had. She also had

831
00:44:50,520 --> 00:44:53,640
Speaker 3: no you know, no training. It's not like she was

832
00:44:53,680 --> 00:44:56,719
Speaker 3: going and being enrolled in AP classes either when she

833
00:44:56,880 --> 00:45:00,560
Speaker 3: was behind bars or when mom was pulled her teeth

834
00:45:00,600 --> 00:45:02,640
Speaker 3: out of her head and keeping her straps in a wheelchair.

835
00:45:02,640 --> 00:45:05,040
Speaker 2: Shouldn't need to be in But I don't know. It's

836
00:45:05,120 --> 00:45:08,920
Speaker 2: real circuit, so true, it's so true, it's true. You

837
00:45:08,960 --> 00:45:10,920
Speaker 2: say it like that, I'm like, it's hard to disagree.

838
00:45:11,040 --> 00:45:14,719
Speaker 3: It's a little hard, but like you said, everyone has

839
00:45:14,760 --> 00:45:18,200
Speaker 3: an origin story. I think this is why it's really

840
00:45:18,680 --> 00:45:21,479
Speaker 3: It gives me a little bit of peace right now

841
00:45:21,520 --> 00:45:24,760
Speaker 3: that every case has tried one at a time instead

842
00:45:24,760 --> 00:45:29,440
Speaker 3: of painted with a broad brush, so that twelve individual

843
00:45:29,480 --> 00:45:33,960
Speaker 3: people in every case can hear both sides of every

844
00:45:34,000 --> 00:45:36,759
Speaker 3: case because they are complicated, every single one of them.

845
00:45:37,239 --> 00:45:41,960
Speaker 2: Who I would love to have Gypsy Rose on. Yes, listen,

846
00:45:42,320 --> 00:45:46,000
Speaker 2: we're listening to true Crime Tonight, Talk Back Tuesday. Listen,

847
00:45:46,080 --> 00:45:48,120
Speaker 2: keep it coming eighty eight three one Crime. We'll be

848
00:45:48,200 --> 00:45:52,880
Speaker 2: right back. Second hour, Join us live anytime. This is

849
00:45:52,920 --> 00:46:06,040
Speaker 2: true Crime Tonight. We're talking true crime all the time. Listen.

850
00:46:06,080 --> 00:46:08,759
Speaker 2: If you've missed any of the first hour, please catch

851
00:46:08,840 --> 00:46:11,759
Speaker 2: it as a podcast. No stress but you can jump

852
00:46:11,800 --> 00:46:15,440
Speaker 2: in now live eighty eight three one crime, or leave

853
00:46:15,520 --> 00:46:17,920
Speaker 2: us a talk back, or hit us up on our

854
00:46:17,920 --> 00:46:21,319
Speaker 2: socials anytime we've been talking about the Menandez brothers. Even

855
00:46:21,320 --> 00:46:23,000
Speaker 2: as I'm talking to you right now, I'm getting a

856
00:46:23,080 --> 00:46:27,319
Speaker 2: text real time. And the question is what if the

857
00:46:27,400 --> 00:46:33,240
Speaker 2: Menendez mom was also a victim of her husband, which

858
00:46:33,280 --> 00:46:37,320
Speaker 2: is why she looked the other way, allegedly, allegedly, allegedly

859
00:46:37,560 --> 00:46:40,719
Speaker 2: when her sons were being abused. This one, I can

860
00:46:41,080 --> 00:46:43,600
Speaker 2: my opinion doesn't count in this world. That's not why

861
00:46:43,600 --> 00:46:46,359
Speaker 2: anyone's coming here to hear my opinion about anything. We're

862
00:46:46,400 --> 00:46:49,680
Speaker 2: just reporting on the information. But in this one, I

863
00:46:49,719 --> 00:46:53,320
Speaker 2: don't know Mom's dads. You gotta protect your kids, Yeah,

864
00:46:53,400 --> 00:46:57,359
Speaker 2: I don't know that they are above yourself, right, guys. Yeah,

865
00:46:57,400 --> 00:46:59,160
Speaker 2: we got to go a little deeper and further.

866
00:47:00,080 --> 00:47:01,960
Speaker 8: Yeah, And I would think even more so why she

867
00:47:02,000 --> 00:47:04,680
Speaker 8: would be protective of the kids if she's suffering the

868
00:47:04,680 --> 00:47:08,920
Speaker 8: abuse as well? She say, but it does DS.

869
00:47:09,120 --> 00:47:12,360
Speaker 5: But again, there's no cookie cutter response to trauma. True,

870
00:47:12,719 --> 00:47:14,759
Speaker 5: you know what I mean, like so true, And a

871
00:47:14,840 --> 00:47:17,520
Speaker 5: lot of times, specifically in true crime, I think we

872
00:47:17,520 --> 00:47:19,840
Speaker 5: we were all kind of guilty of this of judging

873
00:47:19,880 --> 00:47:21,600
Speaker 5: how people react to trauma.

874
00:47:22,080 --> 00:47:23,360
Speaker 6: And I've certainly done it.

875
00:47:23,400 --> 00:47:26,120
Speaker 5: I'm trying to be better about it, you know, from

876
00:47:26,320 --> 00:47:30,360
Speaker 5: let's say this point moving forward, you know, but you know,

877
00:47:30,400 --> 00:47:31,759
Speaker 5: I think we all kind of get a little bit

878
00:47:31,800 --> 00:47:35,080
Speaker 5: judging on how people react to to you know, your

879
00:47:35,080 --> 00:47:39,640
Speaker 5: body holds the score, right, your keep scoring. And I

880
00:47:39,680 --> 00:47:41,879
Speaker 5: think that, you know, as we learn more about how

881
00:47:41,880 --> 00:47:45,280
Speaker 5: people respond to these things too, you know, we're becoming

882
00:47:45,320 --> 00:47:47,640
Speaker 5: a little bit more advanced in our thinking.

883
00:47:48,239 --> 00:47:49,640
Speaker 2: And even by talking about it.

884
00:47:49,800 --> 00:47:52,520
Speaker 5: Yeah, even just by talking about it, you know, and

885
00:47:52,600 --> 00:47:56,200
Speaker 5: getting it out and learning from other people's opinions, you know,

886
00:47:56,239 --> 00:47:58,359
Speaker 5: we kind of can form our own And you know,

887
00:47:58,520 --> 00:48:01,960
Speaker 5: I again, I'm I would imagine that this. You know,

888
00:48:02,040 --> 00:48:04,680
Speaker 5: Kitty would want to protect her children at all costs.

889
00:48:05,160 --> 00:48:08,720
Speaker 5: But then at the same time, I haven't experienced her life,

890
00:48:08,800 --> 00:48:09,520
Speaker 5: and I don't know.

891
00:48:09,440 --> 00:48:09,920
Speaker 6: What it's like.

892
00:48:10,760 --> 00:48:15,839
Speaker 2: And being a woman with maybe minimal financial needs, if

893
00:48:15,960 --> 00:48:18,920
Speaker 2: left on her own, maybe she's tied to that. Maybe

894
00:48:18,960 --> 00:48:22,120
Speaker 2: she's being threatened in her own world. Maybe she's choosing

895
00:48:22,280 --> 00:48:25,120
Speaker 2: emotionally to not see it even though she's seeing it.

896
00:48:25,160 --> 00:48:28,480
Speaker 2: She's not seeing it. You know, this is a different

897
00:48:28,520 --> 00:48:31,359
Speaker 2: time which is again why we're why we have to

898
00:48:31,400 --> 00:48:35,600
Speaker 2: be talking about this stuff. But it is a hard one.

899
00:48:35,960 --> 00:48:39,120
Speaker 2: And again and if it's never been said, we should

900
00:48:39,120 --> 00:48:41,040
Speaker 2: say it now. If you are a child of abuse

901
00:48:41,080 --> 00:48:45,040
Speaker 2: in any way not your fault, free pass, if it

902
00:48:45,080 --> 00:48:46,879
Speaker 2: hasn't been said to you, let us be the ones.

903
00:48:47,600 --> 00:48:51,759
Speaker 2: You are a free pass in this life and this

904
00:48:51,880 --> 00:48:54,400
Speaker 2: is worth a discussion and you can heal from anything.

905
00:48:55,640 --> 00:48:59,040
Speaker 5: That's important to remember. So fine, should we do a

906
00:48:59,080 --> 00:48:59,879
Speaker 5: talk about.

907
00:49:01,520 --> 00:49:02,000
Speaker 2: Let's do it.

908
00:49:02,800 --> 00:49:05,080
Speaker 12: I don't know what it is about the buying coburger

909
00:49:05,239 --> 00:49:09,600
Speaker 12: situation with the selfies and the pictures of recently popped up.

910
00:49:09,640 --> 00:49:10,880
Speaker 5: I just think it's so weird.

911
00:49:11,440 --> 00:49:12,440
Speaker 3: He's so weird.

912
00:49:12,560 --> 00:49:15,840
Speaker 11: I just you're self conscious and then you take pictures

913
00:49:15,880 --> 00:49:16,160
Speaker 11: of your.

914
00:49:16,120 --> 00:49:17,520
Speaker 5: Self flexing and no shirt on.

915
00:49:18,040 --> 00:49:19,000
Speaker 10: I just don't understand.

916
00:49:19,160 --> 00:49:20,320
Speaker 12: I just think he's such a weirdo.

917
00:49:21,640 --> 00:49:26,799
Speaker 5: A fair points, it's hard to disagree. But it's, you know,

918
00:49:26,880 --> 00:49:32,239
Speaker 5: those selfies that she's describing. There's there's two sets, right,

919
00:49:32,360 --> 00:49:35,840
Speaker 5: There's basically a set that happened prior to the murderers,

920
00:49:35,920 --> 00:49:40,359
Speaker 5: and those seem really normal to me. Those seem you know,

921
00:49:40,520 --> 00:49:43,160
Speaker 5: he's taking a photo of maybe a haircut, you know,

922
00:49:43,200 --> 00:49:44,719
Speaker 5: he didn't maybe like the way it turned out, and

923
00:49:44,719 --> 00:49:47,240
Speaker 5: he's looking, you know, and he you know, he's looking

924
00:49:47,280 --> 00:49:49,680
Speaker 5: at how his genes are fitting. And you know, those

925
00:49:49,719 --> 00:49:53,400
Speaker 5: seem fairly normal to me. And I use that in

926
00:49:53,440 --> 00:49:56,920
Speaker 5: air quotes, right, like as normals could as possibly can be.

927
00:49:56,960 --> 00:50:00,400
Speaker 5: And then there's the selfies after the murder, and those

928
00:50:00,560 --> 00:50:02,160
Speaker 5: are very strange.

929
00:50:01,880 --> 00:50:05,080
Speaker 8: To me, and I'm glad I don't remember.

930
00:50:05,880 --> 00:50:09,880
Speaker 5: Yeah, so that the selfies after the murder take a

931
00:50:09,920 --> 00:50:14,640
Speaker 5: different tone. And as the talkback described, you know, he's

932
00:50:14,640 --> 00:50:19,719
Speaker 5: sort of flexing shirtless in different different dates too. It's

933
00:50:19,760 --> 00:50:23,040
Speaker 5: not just one day, it's not just one instance. It's

934
00:50:23,080 --> 00:50:28,960
Speaker 5: it's regularly regularly, and so in different areas, like some

935
00:50:29,040 --> 00:50:31,600
Speaker 5: are in Idaho or I'm sorry, some are in Washington

936
00:50:31,640 --> 00:50:34,520
Speaker 5: where he lived in Pullman, and some are in you know,

937
00:50:34,560 --> 00:50:39,160
Speaker 5: the kitchen of his mother's home in Pennsylvania. And so

938
00:50:39,480 --> 00:50:41,960
Speaker 5: that this it happened over a span of time, and

939
00:50:42,000 --> 00:50:45,760
Speaker 5: I think I think he's feeling powerful and I think,

940
00:50:46,600 --> 00:50:48,879
Speaker 5: you know, after this murder, it gave him some kind

941
00:50:48,920 --> 00:50:49,480
Speaker 5: of power.

942
00:50:50,040 --> 00:50:51,640
Speaker 6: I don't know it's but I think.

943
00:50:51,440 --> 00:50:55,640
Speaker 8: It's literally flexing after her did what he did, and

944
00:50:56,000 --> 00:50:57,319
Speaker 8: it's almost excited about it.

945
00:50:57,320 --> 00:51:01,200
Speaker 6: It's weird. It's weird that would trance.

946
00:51:01,320 --> 00:51:04,440
Speaker 3: I mean criminologists we've spoken to and I brought up

947
00:51:04,480 --> 00:51:08,120
Speaker 3: Scott Bond before and he's amazing, and he and many

948
00:51:08,160 --> 00:51:11,560
Speaker 3: others have said that a lot of people and to

949
00:51:11,680 --> 00:51:18,160
Speaker 3: our knowledge, this was Brian Coberger's one incident of murder.

950
00:51:18,200 --> 00:51:20,840
Speaker 3: But people who particularly go on to become serial murderers,

951
00:51:21,320 --> 00:51:24,880
Speaker 3: they do they have lulls, and that lull is partially

952
00:51:25,120 --> 00:51:28,800
Speaker 3: you are you know you you have quelled the craving

953
00:51:29,040 --> 00:51:31,759
Speaker 3: and you are resting in that space. That seems to

954
00:51:31,800 --> 00:51:34,719
Speaker 3: be a reoccurring thing that happens.

955
00:51:34,719 --> 00:51:35,840
Speaker 6: Right cooling off period.

956
00:51:36,840 --> 00:51:39,719
Speaker 2: There does seem to be a physical difference which I

957
00:51:40,280 --> 00:51:43,560
Speaker 2: always look at who we now know to be murderers

958
00:51:43,680 --> 00:51:47,840
Speaker 2: and perpetrators frankly, and look at their photos and I

959
00:51:47,920 --> 00:51:50,920
Speaker 2: always think there there's a deadness and like a black eye,

960
00:51:50,960 --> 00:51:54,239
Speaker 2: there is a look of someone who's tooken the life

961
00:51:54,280 --> 00:51:57,880
Speaker 2: of another. And look, we're talking about origin stories. This

962
00:51:58,040 --> 00:52:02,320
Speaker 2: case makes me so nuts because again it's such beautiful

963
00:52:03,239 --> 00:52:06,720
Speaker 2: lives lost, and this guy seemed to have a pretty

964
00:52:06,719 --> 00:52:09,800
Speaker 2: good thing going on. If Brian Coberger had a different

965
00:52:09,840 --> 00:52:12,799
Speaker 2: origin story, maybe didn't come from a beloved family, would

966
00:52:12,800 --> 00:52:16,560
Speaker 2: we feel differently about him? And is it possible because

967
00:52:16,600 --> 00:52:20,279
Speaker 2: these pictures I do think are staggering, and I don't

968
00:52:20,280 --> 00:52:23,320
Speaker 2: want to underestimate that. I think they are staggering, and

969
00:52:23,480 --> 00:52:28,080
Speaker 2: we are seeing in real time a human being just

970
00:52:28,120 --> 00:52:31,880
Speaker 2: like you and me, going through the process of I

971
00:52:31,960 --> 00:52:35,600
Speaker 2: have not committed murder two I have, which is like

972
00:52:35,640 --> 00:52:38,600
Speaker 2: we are like that is like next level leap, like

973
00:52:38,760 --> 00:52:41,400
Speaker 2: we can talk about murder, but let's not remember it

974
00:52:41,480 --> 00:52:46,280
Speaker 2: is very real, very And is he flexing in those pictures?

975
00:52:46,280 --> 00:52:49,840
Speaker 2: What I see, which again my interpretation just means nothing

976
00:52:50,000 --> 00:52:53,719
Speaker 2: in terms of there's no psychotherapy behind it. I see

977
00:52:53,719 --> 00:52:57,000
Speaker 2: somebody who felt so meaningless and so powerless, and now

978
00:52:57,280 --> 00:53:00,480
Speaker 2: he's committed murder. Maybe that's gonna get He's gotten it

979
00:53:01,120 --> 00:53:03,719
Speaker 2: and I got it now? Is it possible? Do I

980
00:53:03,760 --> 00:53:06,440
Speaker 2: feel big now? Look me flex now? Like now that

981
00:53:06,480 --> 00:53:08,880
Speaker 2: I crossed over to the dark side? Is it possible

982
00:53:08,920 --> 00:53:12,759
Speaker 2: that I'm empowered? And I think we've realized that he's not.

983
00:53:13,800 --> 00:53:17,800
Speaker 2: And he's shriveling behind closed doors and complaining about food

984
00:53:17,960 --> 00:53:21,879
Speaker 2: and he's just he's just a regular human who's done,

985
00:53:22,400 --> 00:53:24,480
Speaker 2: who's now going to do the time for what he's

986
00:53:24,520 --> 00:53:27,320
Speaker 2: done like there was no like, there was no juice

987
00:53:27,320 --> 00:53:30,560
Speaker 2: that he got from this, there was no reward, And

988
00:53:30,719 --> 00:53:32,920
Speaker 2: is that what he's flexing about. I don't know.

989
00:53:33,000 --> 00:53:37,960
Speaker 5: Well, And we also got his YouTube history, so good, right,

990
00:53:38,040 --> 00:53:40,080
Speaker 5: we got his YouTube history and the things that he

991
00:53:40,200 --> 00:53:43,799
Speaker 5: was looking at prior to his arrest. And if you

992
00:53:43,880 --> 00:53:46,560
Speaker 5: look at it, it's a lot of maybe just normal

993
00:53:46,560 --> 00:53:49,359
Speaker 5: criminology stuff that he would be looking at, but then

994
00:53:49,360 --> 00:53:52,520
Speaker 5: there's also all the Patrick Bateman videos. Yes, right, yes,

995
00:53:52,600 --> 00:53:55,440
Speaker 5: And so when we're talking about this from American Psycho,

996
00:53:56,200 --> 00:54:00,120
Speaker 5: and this is really like personal a little bit for me,

997
00:54:00,800 --> 00:54:03,759
Speaker 5: you know, because of my you know, relation to the

998
00:54:03,840 --> 00:54:06,600
Speaker 5: Luca Magnotic case in him doing everything with basic instinct

999
00:54:06,640 --> 00:54:09,359
Speaker 5: and it's kind of triggering a little bit. And so

1000
00:54:09,880 --> 00:54:13,160
Speaker 5: you know, in that case, you know, Luca was trying

1001
00:54:13,160 --> 00:54:15,680
Speaker 5: to recreate a scene in a movie. And I'm kind

1002
00:54:15,680 --> 00:54:19,279
Speaker 5: of wondering if in the same vein of things, and

1003
00:54:19,360 --> 00:54:22,200
Speaker 5: maybe I'm getting too in my own head, and that's fine,

1004
00:54:22,239 --> 00:54:24,040
Speaker 5: and you can tell me if it's true, if I'm

1005
00:54:24,080 --> 00:54:27,000
Speaker 5: just being crazy, But in the same vein, I'm kind

1006
00:54:27,040 --> 00:54:30,520
Speaker 5: of wondering if this flexing and whatnot is very Patrick Bateman.

1007
00:54:31,040 --> 00:54:33,799
Speaker 2: It's so it's so weird. I think this is the

1008
00:54:33,800 --> 00:54:36,600
Speaker 2: second time tonight. I'm like, that's you're in my head.

1009
00:54:36,360 --> 00:54:39,520
Speaker 2: We have not we have not talked about it by

1010
00:54:39,520 --> 00:54:41,319
Speaker 2: the way we would have, but we just haven't had

1011
00:54:41,320 --> 00:54:44,759
Speaker 2: a chance to. We haven't. Like, yes, I get that

1012
00:54:44,840 --> 00:54:50,000
Speaker 2: feeling answer, but I had that same pull, and I

1013
00:54:50,000 --> 00:54:52,279
Speaker 2: think again, good that we're talking about it because it

1014
00:54:52,320 --> 00:54:56,000
Speaker 2: doesn't have a happy ending. Courtney, well, I think it also.

1015
00:54:56,160 --> 00:54:59,160
Speaker 3: I think that does make sense if he if he is,

1016
00:54:59,200 --> 00:55:01,680
Speaker 3: and obviously none of us are inside of his rig

1017
00:55:01,719 --> 00:55:06,520
Speaker 3: whenells's head. But you know, the drawing the parallels between

1018
00:55:06,800 --> 00:55:12,760
Speaker 3: the American psycho character, because it does seem that Brian

1019
00:55:12,840 --> 00:55:15,960
Speaker 3: Kolberger throughout his life was trying to figure out basically,

1020
00:55:16,040 --> 00:55:18,279
Speaker 3: how do I present as a quote normal human being?

1021
00:55:18,800 --> 00:55:19,040
Speaker 2: Rian?

1022
00:55:19,080 --> 00:55:22,120
Speaker 3: And this would be how do I present now, as

1023
00:55:22,160 --> 00:55:26,560
Speaker 3: in my views court me a powerful human being?

1024
00:55:26,719 --> 00:55:31,080
Speaker 2: Yes, and I know Ringo right there just nailed it.

1025
00:55:31,120 --> 00:55:33,680
Speaker 2: And Courtney, you're so right. You guys are so smart.

1026
00:55:33,880 --> 00:55:35,680
Speaker 8: I love hear that with you.

1027
00:55:36,200 --> 00:55:37,880
Speaker 2: By the way, I'll tell you that us I'm going

1028
00:55:37,920 --> 00:55:40,000
Speaker 2: to steal the mid segment eight eight eight three one

1029
00:55:40,040 --> 00:55:43,440
Speaker 2: crime join us. We're doing talkback Tuesday, and as I

1030
00:55:43,480 --> 00:55:45,720
Speaker 2: say that, I'm losing my thought. But like I wonder

1031
00:55:45,840 --> 00:55:49,840
Speaker 2: if Brian Coburger have you you guys ever seen the

1032
00:55:49,840 --> 00:55:53,719
Speaker 2: movie The Joker, Sam, I'm always hitting it thrusts, so

1033
00:55:53,840 --> 00:55:57,719
Speaker 2: if you haven't, it's very powerful. Joaquin Phoenix. When we

1034
00:55:57,920 --> 00:56:02,040
Speaker 2: first started working on the I'dahome Massacre the podcast, even

1035
00:56:02,080 --> 00:56:05,080
Speaker 2: prior to the documentary, I just happened to watch it

1036
00:56:05,080 --> 00:56:07,759
Speaker 2: for the first time, and to me, it really did

1037
00:56:07,840 --> 00:56:11,399
Speaker 2: speak a bit to the Brian Coberger story. Again, we're

1038
00:56:11,400 --> 00:56:14,160
Speaker 2: not like trying to glorify making it into a movie,

1039
00:56:14,560 --> 00:56:17,319
Speaker 2: but it was like this guy who's the Joker, who

1040
00:56:17,480 --> 00:56:19,960
Speaker 2: becomes the Joker, but his origin, by the way, we're

1041
00:56:19,960 --> 00:56:24,200
Speaker 2: all origin story tonight, unintentionally, his origin story was he

1042
00:56:24,280 --> 00:56:26,640
Speaker 2: was a little off, like he never quite fit in,

1043
00:56:26,960 --> 00:56:29,520
Speaker 2: Like he was like he was the guy that laughed

1044
00:56:29,560 --> 00:56:31,680
Speaker 2: at the wrong part of the joke even though he

1045
00:56:31,760 --> 00:56:33,640
Speaker 2: wanted to be a part of the joke, and he

1046
00:56:33,719 --> 00:56:36,080
Speaker 2: just like wanted friends, and he had a try hard,

1047
00:56:36,600 --> 00:56:40,320
Speaker 2: a total try hard, and like we all know that guy,

1048
00:56:40,400 --> 00:56:43,880
Speaker 2: you know, And it's like sometimes it's you're it's sometimes

1049
00:56:44,120 --> 00:56:46,799
Speaker 2: you're born that way. Maybe sometimes it's a learned thing.

1050
00:56:46,960 --> 00:56:50,000
Speaker 2: Sometimes you're just left out of the club and it's hard.

1051
00:56:50,160 --> 00:56:53,719
Speaker 2: You're isolated. We're also down this in Cell's dark web thing,

1052
00:56:53,840 --> 00:56:56,680
Speaker 2: so I'm doublely down the rabbit hole. Yeah, bear with me.

1053
00:56:57,280 --> 00:56:59,799
Speaker 2: And then he has like a weird mom who's kind

1054
00:56:59,800 --> 00:57:02,719
Speaker 2: of eating the beast and he really wants to fit

1055
00:57:02,840 --> 00:57:05,040
Speaker 2: in and he starts to be a stand up comedian.

1056
00:57:05,080 --> 00:57:09,120
Speaker 2: Meanwhile he's so unfunny, which meanwhile, Brian Coburger too, always

1057
00:57:09,160 --> 00:57:10,839
Speaker 2: like trying to like go to the poll party and

1058
00:57:10,880 --> 00:57:12,640
Speaker 2: like hang out with chick. Oh, yeah, I can get

1059
00:57:12,640 --> 00:57:15,480
Speaker 2: any girl I want. I'm that guy and the thumbs

1060
00:57:15,560 --> 00:57:18,240
Speaker 2: up the thumbs up guy, and everything's great.

1061
00:57:18,320 --> 00:57:18,840
Speaker 6: I'm humman.

1062
00:57:19,280 --> 00:57:24,520
Speaker 2: There's an affect that isn't actually real, right, So that

1063
00:57:24,680 --> 00:57:28,120
Speaker 2: is and then he becomes the joker, who is this notorious,

1064
00:57:28,480 --> 00:57:32,840
Speaker 2: awful villain because he's just been like looked over one

1065
00:57:32,880 --> 00:57:37,120
Speaker 2: too many times and doesn't get authenticity. Yeah, he doesn't

1066
00:57:37,160 --> 00:57:40,360
Speaker 2: get human connection. How do we prevent that? Like so

1067
00:57:40,480 --> 00:57:43,120
Speaker 2: we can like pile on Brian Coburger to the cows

1068
00:57:43,160 --> 00:57:48,200
Speaker 2: come home. He's very guilty and it's sickening. It's senseless.

1069
00:57:48,560 --> 00:57:50,640
Speaker 2: But like, what are we looking for in the real world?

1070
00:57:50,800 --> 00:57:54,440
Speaker 2: Probably a larger discussion for a different time or our podcast.

1071
00:57:54,640 --> 00:57:58,680
Speaker 2: But this guy, the pictures sort of reinforced that, I

1072
00:57:58,680 --> 00:58:01,120
Speaker 2: guess is my larger point. As we're seeing this dump

1073
00:58:01,120 --> 00:58:05,080
Speaker 2: of photographs, it's really like watching the scariest movie you've

1074
00:58:05,120 --> 00:58:08,520
Speaker 2: ever seen, but it's real. You're seeing a guy that's like,

1075
00:58:08,760 --> 00:58:11,280
Speaker 2: you know, kind of like a little normal. Oh okay,

1076
00:58:11,320 --> 00:58:13,680
Speaker 2: I can kind of got be on that. Yeah, awkward,

1077
00:58:13,760 --> 00:58:17,160
Speaker 2: he's trying, you know, herying right, And then the murders happen,

1078
00:58:17,320 --> 00:58:20,040
Speaker 2: and then we see a man who's committed a massacre,

1079
00:58:20,480 --> 00:58:23,640
Speaker 2: who is reacclimating into the world that is not real

1080
00:58:24,240 --> 00:58:26,480
Speaker 2: and is going to get away with it. And it's

1081
00:58:26,800 --> 00:58:29,920
Speaker 2: so scary. It's American Psycho, but it's not the movie.

1082
00:58:30,160 --> 00:58:30,600
Speaker 2: It's real.

1083
00:58:30,960 --> 00:58:31,400
Speaker 6: It's real.

1084
00:58:31,960 --> 00:58:34,720
Speaker 5: And there's those photos that the ones that stand out

1085
00:58:34,760 --> 00:58:37,280
Speaker 5: to me of those selfies are the ones where, you know,

1086
00:58:37,320 --> 00:58:40,480
Speaker 5: there's several of them again over the span of many days,

1087
00:58:40,520 --> 00:58:44,040
Speaker 5: where he's holding his hair back from his forehead. I mean,

1088
00:58:44,200 --> 00:58:46,560
Speaker 5: he has different faces that he's making, and some he's

1089
00:58:46,720 --> 00:58:49,360
Speaker 5: kind of smirking, and some he's smiling, and some he's

1090
00:58:49,440 --> 00:58:53,480
Speaker 5: very serious staring at the camera. But this hand on

1091
00:58:53,640 --> 00:58:56,360
Speaker 5: his forehead kind of pulling his hair back a little

1092
00:58:56,360 --> 00:58:59,720
Speaker 5: bit is so interesting to me, and I don't know

1093
00:58:59,760 --> 00:59:04,160
Speaker 5: why why, I don't. For me, it has to mean something,

1094
00:59:04,920 --> 00:59:07,480
Speaker 5: it has to, but I don't know what. If you know,

1095
00:59:08,040 --> 00:59:09,600
Speaker 5: I want to hear from you eight and eight thirty

1096
00:59:09,600 --> 00:59:10,240
Speaker 5: one crime.

1097
00:59:10,760 --> 00:59:14,040
Speaker 2: Well as one guess, I have no idea. I want

1098
00:59:14,080 --> 00:59:14,800
Speaker 2: to hear his brain.

1099
00:59:15,000 --> 00:59:20,960
Speaker 3: But it does our hairlines change how we look completely.

1100
00:59:21,240 --> 00:59:23,360
Speaker 3: I mean this had come up oddly when we were

1101
00:59:23,760 --> 00:59:25,880
Speaker 3: I don't know why we were talking that.

1102
00:59:25,880 --> 00:59:28,920
Speaker 2: You guys both have the greatest hair so I can

1103
00:59:29,040 --> 00:59:31,960
Speaker 2: talk about hairlines with both of you all day.

1104
00:59:32,920 --> 00:59:35,680
Speaker 3: But when we were, for whatever reason, talking about oh,

1105
00:59:35,680 --> 00:59:40,920
Speaker 3: Pamela Anderson and Liam Neeson, but not to derail us,

1106
00:59:41,200 --> 00:59:46,040
Speaker 3: what was interesting was that her hairline was what transformed

1107
00:59:46,720 --> 00:59:50,000
Speaker 3: the actress more than anything else. So, body, maybe you're

1108
00:59:50,080 --> 00:59:53,840
Speaker 3: reacting on some visceral Levey because either it is changing

1109
00:59:54,240 --> 00:59:56,040
Speaker 3: the way he looks, or because you kind of know

1110
00:59:56,200 --> 00:59:58,080
Speaker 3: he's innately trying to I don't know.

1111
00:59:58,400 --> 01:00:00,720
Speaker 2: I think he's almost modeling a lit little bit, like

1112
01:00:00,840 --> 01:00:06,400
Speaker 2: he's looking like I don't how could I be, no,

1113
01:00:06,440 --> 01:00:10,400
Speaker 2: I know, but he's like presenting like I'm center stage.

1114
01:00:10,840 --> 01:00:13,040
Speaker 2: By the way the whole world was looking for this clown.

1115
01:00:13,960 --> 01:00:17,640
Speaker 2: I was one of them. We were all deeply connected

1116
01:00:17,680 --> 01:00:23,560
Speaker 2: to this murder of four incredible, incredible humans. We were enraged,

1117
01:00:24,040 --> 01:00:28,240
Speaker 2: find justice, find the person. Imagine you're this side just

1118
01:00:28,680 --> 01:00:31,120
Speaker 2: for Idaho. For like, I feel like we all cried

1119
01:00:31,120 --> 01:00:34,040
Speaker 2: on ourself a little bit about this, although we didn't

1120
01:00:34,080 --> 01:00:36,720
Speaker 2: know them. I can only imagine what was going on

1121
01:00:36,840 --> 01:00:39,560
Speaker 2: for you know, Kaylee and Ethan and Zad. I mean,

1122
01:00:39,560 --> 01:00:42,640
Speaker 2: this is so too much. You see the fellows of

1123
01:00:42,680 --> 01:00:47,080
Speaker 2: Madison's room. It's obscene, And this guy is posing in

1124
01:00:47,120 --> 01:00:50,520
Speaker 2: the mirror to see if maybe now he's got it right.

1125
01:00:50,880 --> 01:00:54,880
Speaker 5: I just feel like his hair was already kind of

1126
01:00:54,960 --> 01:00:59,600
Speaker 5: back naturally, doing this did not really change his appearance.

1127
01:00:59,760 --> 01:01:02,439
Speaker 5: I feel like it's I feel like it's something more.

1128
01:01:02,760 --> 01:01:03,440
Speaker 2: I think you're right.

1129
01:01:03,800 --> 01:01:06,320
Speaker 5: I feel like it's deeper. I don't think it's a signal.

1130
01:01:06,320 --> 01:01:07,960
Speaker 5: I think he's trying to see what he looked like

1131
01:01:07,960 --> 01:01:11,080
Speaker 5: in a certain way. Like And you have to remember,

1132
01:01:11,680 --> 01:01:15,080
Speaker 5: at this point, he doesn't know that Dylan has described

1133
01:01:15,160 --> 01:01:18,160
Speaker 5: him as having bushy eyebrows, right, so keep that in mind.

1134
01:01:18,200 --> 01:01:20,240
Speaker 6: It just I feel like it means something I don't know.

1135
01:01:20,920 --> 01:01:23,080
Speaker 2: You're probably one hundred percent right, I don't know.

1136
01:01:23,280 --> 01:01:24,000
Speaker 6: We'll keep it here.

1137
01:01:24,120 --> 01:01:26,720
Speaker 5: We're gonna keep We're gonna be taking your suggestics on

1138
01:01:26,760 --> 01:01:28,480
Speaker 5: cases you think we should cover.

1139
01:01:28,880 --> 01:01:30,760
Speaker 6: Keep it right here. True Crime Tonight. This is Talk

1140
01:01:30,800 --> 01:01:33,080
Speaker 6: Back Tuesday. We're talking true crime all the time.

1141
01:01:44,480 --> 01:01:47,920
Speaker 2: Welcome to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking true

1142
01:01:47,920 --> 01:01:51,600
Speaker 2: crime all the time. I'm Stephanie Leidecker here with Courtney

1143
01:01:51,720 --> 01:01:55,560
Speaker 2: Armstrong and Faddy move In, my two favorite partners in

1144
01:01:55,800 --> 01:01:59,400
Speaker 2: crime chat. Yes, so talk about Tuesday. We are here

1145
01:01:59,440 --> 01:02:01,800
Speaker 2: for it. The phone was a buzz in, so we're

1146
01:02:02,240 --> 01:02:04,480
Speaker 2: we'll get to as many as quickly as possible. Let's go.

1147
01:02:04,520 --> 01:02:05,000
Speaker 2: Do we talk that?

1148
01:02:06,040 --> 01:02:10,200
Speaker 11: Hey, ladies, I did find a story that was interesting.

1149
01:02:10,360 --> 01:02:12,680
Speaker 11: I don't know if you've talked about it. Forgive me

1150
01:02:12,720 --> 01:02:17,800
Speaker 11: if you have this law student Maya or Maya O'Brien,

1151
01:02:18,600 --> 01:02:22,960
Speaker 11: who was caught in Dubai with cocaine and I think

1152
01:02:23,040 --> 01:02:26,640
Speaker 11: she's been sentenced to twenty five years. I thought that

1153
01:02:26,760 --> 01:02:30,520
Speaker 11: might be interesting to talk about. And I heard a

1154
01:02:30,680 --> 01:02:35,720
Speaker 11: rumor that Bka was ianing an appeal or they found

1155
01:02:35,720 --> 01:02:39,200
Speaker 11: the letter where he's bogging an appeal, so I thought

1156
01:02:39,200 --> 01:02:40,640
Speaker 11: that might be interesting too.

1157
01:02:41,280 --> 01:02:45,200
Speaker 2: By what an interesting case. I've never heard such a thing.

1158
01:02:45,640 --> 01:02:47,640
Speaker 6: Yeah, I haven't heard of this one. What's it?

1159
01:02:47,880 --> 01:02:50,560
Speaker 8: Well, I did a little research because I knew this

1160
01:02:50,800 --> 01:02:53,200
Speaker 8: was going to be coming up today, So I can

1161
01:02:53,200 --> 01:02:55,760
Speaker 8: give you a little top line and we can maybe

1162
01:02:55,760 --> 01:02:58,240
Speaker 8: dig into it a little further in the future show.

1163
01:02:58,600 --> 01:03:01,680
Speaker 8: But in a nutshell here it is Na O'Brien. She's

1164
01:03:01,720 --> 01:03:04,960
Speaker 8: a British law student from Liverpool. She was sentenced in

1165
01:03:05,040 --> 01:03:08,720
Speaker 8: September of this year to twenty five years in a

1166
01:03:08,800 --> 01:03:12,520
Speaker 8: Dubai prison for a drug related offense, and it's sparking

1167
01:03:12,520 --> 01:03:17,160
Speaker 8: a lot of international concerns and calls for intervention because

1168
01:03:17,560 --> 01:03:20,360
Speaker 8: people feel it's a bit of a harsh sentence that

1169
01:03:20,520 --> 01:03:24,560
Speaker 8: she's receiving. She was studying law and she traveled to

1170
01:03:24,600 --> 01:03:28,160
Speaker 8: Dubai where she was arrested on drug charges that authority

1171
01:03:28,240 --> 01:03:34,400
Speaker 8: said violated the UAE strict narcotics laws. So there's a

1172
01:03:34,440 --> 01:03:37,480
Speaker 8: lot of sort of her family and supporters in the

1173
01:03:37,560 --> 01:03:41,760
Speaker 8: UK are appealing to the British government for diplomatic assistance.

1174
01:03:42,160 --> 01:03:44,800
Speaker 8: I mean, you know, we're going to be frank about it.

1175
01:03:45,080 --> 01:03:49,440
Speaker 8: What she did was wrong, but the kind of sentencing

1176
01:03:49,760 --> 01:03:52,960
Speaker 8: sentencings she's getting people feel as harsh and a little

1177
01:03:52,960 --> 01:03:57,400
Speaker 8: more detail on it. She was found with fifty grams

1178
01:03:57,400 --> 01:04:01,240
Speaker 8: of cocaine. That is a lot at her apartment.

1179
01:04:02,480 --> 01:04:05,040
Speaker 2: How much is that? What does that mean in cocaine

1180
01:04:05,360 --> 01:04:10,040
Speaker 2: cocaine land? Fifty gram? I'm asking only because I don't

1181
01:04:10,120 --> 01:04:12,320
Speaker 2: understand math and leaders in grams.

1182
01:04:13,160 --> 01:04:16,400
Speaker 8: Well, I don't know leaders, but picture.

1183
01:04:16,000 --> 01:04:17,280
Speaker 2: Wise, I'm picturing a brick.

1184
01:04:17,840 --> 01:04:18,840
Speaker 8: Oh yeah, let's fifty.

1185
01:04:19,560 --> 01:04:23,720
Speaker 3: Monetarily it would be it was per Google between three

1186
01:04:23,760 --> 01:04:26,800
Speaker 3: and ten thousand dollars worth.

1187
01:04:27,280 --> 01:04:29,760
Speaker 2: But does it look like a handbag? Is it bigger

1188
01:04:29,760 --> 01:04:30,880
Speaker 2: than a loaf of bread?

1189
01:04:32,360 --> 01:04:33,480
Speaker 8: That one we're gonna have to dig into?

1190
01:04:33,640 --> 01:04:37,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, regardless, But like it was a knowingly received or

1191
01:04:37,480 --> 01:04:41,440
Speaker 2: this is a knowing knowing thing listening, listen.

1192
01:04:41,480 --> 01:04:44,200
Speaker 5: I traveled to Malaysia and I stayed there for two

1193
01:04:44,240 --> 01:04:47,000
Speaker 5: months filming The Mole for Netflix. And this is a

1194
01:04:47,480 --> 01:04:50,600
Speaker 5: you know, it's not a secular nation, just like Dubai.

1195
01:04:51,240 --> 01:04:53,960
Speaker 5: We were told very specifically what would happen to us

1196
01:04:53,960 --> 01:04:58,160
Speaker 5: if we brought drugs, like very specifically what specifically, Oh,

1197
01:04:58,200 --> 01:05:01,840
Speaker 5: it's twenty five years media jail, immedia and this is

1198
01:05:01,840 --> 01:05:04,960
Speaker 5: probably no drugs there and even like gummies, right, which

1199
01:05:05,000 --> 01:05:07,600
Speaker 5: is you know something I missed while I was over there, right,

1200
01:05:08,280 --> 01:05:10,720
Speaker 5: and we were told very specifically what would happen to us.

1201
01:05:10,560 --> 01:05:12,320
Speaker 6: It's like straight to jail.

1202
01:05:12,440 --> 01:05:15,720
Speaker 5: Like no passo, no past, you know, whatever, no to

1203
01:05:16,040 --> 01:05:18,840
Speaker 5: you know, you're straight to jail. And so I have

1204
01:05:19,520 --> 01:05:23,040
Speaker 5: I feel bad for her. She's a law student, Like what.

1205
01:05:23,040 --> 01:05:27,280
Speaker 8: Is she's a law student thinking yeah, yeah, very I

1206
01:05:27,280 --> 01:05:29,680
Speaker 8: mean not that this matters at all that she's very attractive.

1207
01:05:29,720 --> 01:05:32,440
Speaker 8: She has a very like Paris Hilt look about her.

1208
01:05:33,080 --> 01:05:38,040
Speaker 8: There was a what about our post people that are yeah,

1209
01:05:38,080 --> 01:05:40,160
Speaker 8: well this was this is the New York Post headline

1210
01:05:40,320 --> 01:05:44,040
Speaker 8: glamorous law student and coke bust sentenced for twenty five years.

1211
01:05:44,400 --> 01:05:46,320
Speaker 8: And I don't know if you can say hell hole

1212
01:05:46,520 --> 01:05:50,560
Speaker 8: in Dubai prison where rape is an everyday occurrence. So

1213
01:05:50,840 --> 01:05:54,880
Speaker 8: it sounds like the circumstances, the kind of prisons that

1214
01:05:54,920 --> 01:05:58,360
Speaker 8: they have there. It's just it's it's it's horrendous. But

1215
01:05:58,600 --> 01:06:01,320
Speaker 8: what she did to your point body, she did do

1216
01:06:01,960 --> 01:06:02,840
Speaker 8: something she shouldn't have.

1217
01:06:04,800 --> 01:06:07,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's the it's also the laws of the land

1218
01:06:07,760 --> 01:06:11,120
Speaker 3: that you are in, especially if we're going to law school. Yeah,

1219
01:06:11,120 --> 01:06:15,040
Speaker 3: it's where you are, so that that's tough. You do

1220
01:06:15,160 --> 01:06:17,280
Speaker 3: need to be cognizant. And also I did just find

1221
01:06:17,320 --> 01:06:20,680
Speaker 3: out that I tried to find out how many servings

1222
01:06:21,000 --> 01:06:24,680
Speaker 3: fifty grams of cocaine is, And what I did learn

1223
01:06:25,560 --> 01:06:29,680
Speaker 3: is that it's impossible to determine the number of servings

1224
01:06:29,680 --> 01:06:31,080
Speaker 3: of an illegal suscess.

1225
01:06:30,720 --> 01:06:31,040
Speaker 7: A lot of.

1226
01:06:33,680 --> 01:06:35,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, I didn't know how to find because I was

1227
01:06:35,320 --> 01:06:38,680
Speaker 2: a very good okay, so to that end, Also, we

1228
01:06:38,760 --> 01:06:40,640
Speaker 2: learned this from a man in Oox. Right, it's a

1229
01:06:40,680 --> 01:06:43,080
Speaker 2: waste what you're thinking too, So we learned this from

1230
01:06:43,080 --> 01:06:46,040
Speaker 2: a man Innox because Amana Knox touches on two things

1231
01:06:46,600 --> 01:06:50,160
Speaker 2: that we talked about tonight. One is trauma responses, how

1232
01:06:50,200 --> 01:06:52,240
Speaker 2: a person responds. We talked about that or in the

1233
01:06:52,320 --> 01:06:56,440
Speaker 2: last hour earlier. Who knows how a person responds in

1234
01:06:56,480 --> 01:06:59,400
Speaker 2: a trauma moment? A mana Knox was looking at serious

1235
01:06:59,440 --> 01:07:04,520
Speaker 2: time because she, by by Italy's account, was thinking she

1236
01:07:04,640 --> 01:07:07,920
Speaker 2: was being you know, laissez fair. I don't know why

1237
01:07:07,920 --> 01:07:10,720
Speaker 2: I'm using a French is a French. She was a loose,

1238
01:07:11,120 --> 01:07:14,640
Speaker 2: she was aloof right, she was smoochy with her boyfriend

1239
01:07:14,640 --> 01:07:18,320
Speaker 2: of a week, so her she did not appear traumatized

1240
01:07:18,480 --> 01:07:21,760
Speaker 2: enough in a traumatic moment and therefore she was judged

1241
01:07:21,800 --> 01:07:25,280
Speaker 2: for it, and that tunnel vision served her a lot

1242
01:07:25,320 --> 01:07:27,680
Speaker 2: of time, right, So that was a big ticket item

1243
01:07:27,680 --> 01:07:30,800
Speaker 2: that I took from her conversation and the idea of

1244
01:07:30,840 --> 01:07:34,680
Speaker 2: being locked up across the l in another world. If

1245
01:07:34,680 --> 01:07:36,680
Speaker 2: there is one thing that a man in Knox has

1246
01:07:36,680 --> 01:07:39,000
Speaker 2: taught us, she taught us many things, by the way

1247
01:07:39,120 --> 01:07:42,640
Speaker 2: that stick with me deeply is you need to know

1248
01:07:42,760 --> 01:07:45,320
Speaker 2: where you are going, what the rules are, what the

1249
01:07:45,400 --> 01:07:50,080
Speaker 2: laws are, where the embassy is, who your emergency contact

1250
01:07:50,200 --> 01:07:54,040
Speaker 2: number is, and like, listen, yeah, do not bring drugs

1251
01:07:54,080 --> 01:07:57,120
Speaker 2: to another what planet are you on? Common sense? This

1252
01:07:57,200 --> 01:07:59,160
Speaker 2: is like common sense. I don't think you deserved twenty

1253
01:07:59,160 --> 01:08:01,960
Speaker 2: five years and I'm sorry, don't. Neither's wonderful, but that

1254
01:08:02,160 --> 01:08:04,560
Speaker 2: is like bad judgment. Like, let's all learn from this

1255
01:08:04,720 --> 01:08:07,760
Speaker 2: terrible lapse in judgment from a very smart person likely

1256
01:08:08,600 --> 01:08:15,000
Speaker 2: allegedly no no, no as Yeah, and Amanda's a big takeaway.

1257
01:08:15,240 --> 01:08:17,240
Speaker 2: I've gotten this a lot. I'm sure you guys have too.

1258
01:08:18,240 --> 01:08:21,559
Speaker 2: You matter, Yeah, that's that was her. That was remember

1259
01:08:21,560 --> 01:08:22,280
Speaker 2: one thing you matter?

1260
01:08:22,479 --> 01:08:22,719
Speaker 8: Right?

1261
01:08:23,000 --> 01:08:26,599
Speaker 5: Well, hopefully this Mia person knows that she matters, right,

1262
01:08:26,640 --> 01:08:29,240
Speaker 5: because she does matter, whether or not she broke the

1263
01:08:29,320 --> 01:08:32,280
Speaker 5: laws of I have no idea what a bad day,

1264
01:08:32,439 --> 01:08:36,720
Speaker 5: a horrible day, and hopefully the embassy and the you know,

1265
01:08:36,400 --> 01:08:40,919
Speaker 5: the British government can you know, maybe negotiate her getting released.

1266
01:08:41,000 --> 01:08:43,559
Speaker 6: I just don't know what there is to really talk about.

1267
01:08:44,080 --> 01:08:48,120
Speaker 8: Yeah, to buy, we've kind of covered it.

1268
01:08:48,920 --> 01:08:52,680
Speaker 2: I do not go to Dubai with drugs.

1269
01:08:51,640 --> 01:08:53,599
Speaker 6: Are you insane?

1270
01:08:54,280 --> 01:08:56,320
Speaker 8: You know which case? I don't know if you remember

1271
01:08:56,360 --> 01:08:59,320
Speaker 8: this the one that made me always think about how

1272
01:08:59,680 --> 01:09:01,879
Speaker 8: you have to think about what you're packing and doing everything.

1273
01:09:02,040 --> 01:09:03,920
Speaker 8: Remember Brittany the basketball player?

1274
01:09:04,360 --> 01:09:04,719
Speaker 3: Yeah?

1275
01:09:04,800 --> 01:09:05,559
Speaker 6: Yeah, in Russia.

1276
01:09:06,160 --> 01:09:08,240
Speaker 8: Yeah, and that and that was like I think it

1277
01:09:08,320 --> 01:09:10,640
Speaker 8: was just gummies or something. It was not even a

1278
01:09:10,680 --> 01:09:11,960
Speaker 8: lot of whatever she was carrying.

1279
01:09:12,000 --> 01:09:13,559
Speaker 6: It was like a vappen, I think, or something.

1280
01:09:13,640 --> 01:09:15,880
Speaker 2: But she almost cost her entire life by the way.

1281
01:09:16,080 --> 01:09:18,000
Speaker 2: I was in Brazil, but I feel like I've traveled

1282
01:09:18,000 --> 01:09:20,760
Speaker 2: a lot. In Brazil specifically, though, I remember thinking what

1283
01:09:20,840 --> 01:09:23,559
Speaker 2: are they doing? And you guys have probably seen this.

1284
01:09:23,920 --> 01:09:28,040
Speaker 2: They wrap your suitcases, yes, in classic and saran rap

1285
01:09:28,080 --> 01:09:30,720
Speaker 2: basically you know, the high end ceram rack. In my head,

1286
01:09:30,720 --> 01:09:33,360
Speaker 2: I was like, why would they do that? Because sometimes

1287
01:09:33,400 --> 01:09:35,880
Speaker 2: people slip drugs in your.

1288
01:09:35,800 --> 01:09:39,720
Speaker 5: Back the baggage there'll be one in this era and

1289
01:09:39,800 --> 01:09:42,280
Speaker 5: he knows his buddy in the next country is.

1290
01:09:42,280 --> 01:09:44,640
Speaker 6: Going to pick it up. Yeah, and a dummy like that.

1291
01:09:45,120 --> 01:09:48,280
Speaker 2: It's like, oh, where's my luggage? And I'm like going

1292
01:09:48,280 --> 01:09:52,479
Speaker 2: off to my Brazilian vaca to see the world and like,

1293
01:09:52,560 --> 01:09:55,479
Speaker 2: you know, go for a hike and hike. It was

1294
01:09:55,520 --> 01:10:00,960
Speaker 2: such a bad fight like that lies liar executed myself.

1295
01:10:00,960 --> 01:10:02,920
Speaker 2: But then you go with your luggage and little do

1296
01:10:02,960 --> 01:10:05,880
Speaker 2: you know, someone has slipped you're a drug meal rugs

1297
01:10:05,960 --> 01:10:08,840
Speaker 2: in your bag and you're looking at real time. Yeah,

1298
01:10:08,880 --> 01:10:10,520
Speaker 2: I think that happened in Australia.

1299
01:10:10,560 --> 01:10:12,519
Speaker 5: A woman there was a documentary about it, and I

1300
01:10:12,560 --> 01:10:16,280
Speaker 5: don't remember her name, but she was going to Bali,

1301
01:10:16,400 --> 01:10:20,440
Speaker 5: I think, and they found like a ton of marijuana

1302
01:10:20,479 --> 01:10:23,720
Speaker 5: in her boogie board bag and from what she got

1303
01:10:23,800 --> 01:10:28,640
Speaker 5: sentenced to like life, but it was she says, it's not.

1304
01:10:28,800 --> 01:10:31,599
Speaker 5: She says that somebody slipped it in, probably in baggage claim.

1305
01:10:31,960 --> 01:10:34,840
Speaker 5: And you know, these are not secular nations. These are

1306
01:10:34,920 --> 01:10:37,320
Speaker 5: run by you know, you have to be a certain

1307
01:10:37,360 --> 01:10:41,960
Speaker 5: religion and things like that. You know, where it's totally one,

1308
01:10:43,040 --> 01:10:45,240
Speaker 5: nobody is coming to help you in this case. In

1309
01:10:45,280 --> 01:10:47,800
Speaker 5: Australia and if you remember it, we have a lot

1310
01:10:47,840 --> 01:10:49,400
Speaker 5: of Australian listeners.

1311
01:10:49,439 --> 01:10:50,120
Speaker 6: Maybe you remember.

1312
01:10:50,360 --> 01:10:52,040
Speaker 8: Yes, it was I.

1313
01:10:52,040 --> 01:10:55,759
Speaker 5: Can't remember her name, but it was a fascinating story.

1314
01:10:55,800 --> 01:10:58,240
Speaker 5: And last I checked on her, she was still in

1315
01:10:58,240 --> 01:11:01,519
Speaker 5: this I saw this documentary fifty years ago. Whilst I

1316
01:11:01,600 --> 01:11:06,120
Speaker 5: checked on her, she was still in jail and BALI, yeah,

1317
01:11:06,280 --> 01:11:08,000
Speaker 5: do not bring drugs to another country, like.

1318
01:11:09,920 --> 01:11:12,120
Speaker 2: This is the moral. I mean, honestly, we're not even

1319
01:11:12,160 --> 01:11:14,320
Speaker 2: gonna peel it back from further. But like you cannot

1320
01:11:14,360 --> 01:11:17,599
Speaker 2: get do you not get on an airplane? Like common sense,

1321
01:11:18,760 --> 01:11:21,120
Speaker 2: even if you're on drugs. We have to assume some

1322
01:11:21,280 --> 01:11:21,920
Speaker 2: common sense.

1323
01:11:22,320 --> 01:11:26,040
Speaker 5: Yeah, come on, come on, especially going to non secular nations,

1324
01:11:26,280 --> 01:11:27,080
Speaker 5: like do not do it.

1325
01:11:27,240 --> 01:11:29,519
Speaker 2: When you say non secular nation, what does that mean?

1326
01:11:31,280 --> 01:11:33,960
Speaker 5: Religion is not compulsory, like you you have to be

1327
01:11:34,040 --> 01:11:37,840
Speaker 5: a specific religion, the religious like Iran is run by

1328
01:11:37,840 --> 01:11:41,360
Speaker 5: the Ayatola. It's a religious you know, right of course, Yeah,

1329
01:11:42,080 --> 01:11:46,280
Speaker 5: like something around, right, they're not messing around, they're not

1330
01:11:46,320 --> 01:11:48,759
Speaker 5: messing around. Yeah, so just be careful.

1331
01:11:48,920 --> 01:11:51,439
Speaker 2: I get such a cold chill, it's like I get

1332
01:11:51,560 --> 01:11:54,920
Speaker 2: so like I go through baggage claim, I don't carry firearms.

1333
01:11:54,920 --> 01:11:57,280
Speaker 2: I don't do drugs. I don't listen. I live the

1334
01:11:57,280 --> 01:11:58,120
Speaker 2: most vanilla, like.

1335
01:11:58,439 --> 01:11:59,040
Speaker 6: I'm an angel.

1336
01:11:59,200 --> 01:12:03,080
Speaker 2: I've had a fun run. I go through the airport

1337
01:12:03,280 --> 01:12:06,479
Speaker 2: and like I feel guilty. I'm like, oh, like you

1338
01:12:06,560 --> 01:12:10,920
Speaker 2: feel like a little sweat when they're patting. Oh yeah,

1339
01:12:11,320 --> 01:12:15,880
Speaker 2: can you imagine walking doing that with like what are

1340
01:12:15,960 --> 01:12:18,760
Speaker 2: all those drugs in bad I would be a walking sweat.

1341
01:12:19,439 --> 01:12:19,960
Speaker 8: They must be.

1342
01:12:20,000 --> 01:12:23,840
Speaker 2: Looking for presparation. That's probably a thing where they're looking

1343
01:12:23,840 --> 01:12:30,439
Speaker 2: for humans that are perspiring massively at the border. Yeah,

1344
01:12:30,439 --> 01:12:35,320
Speaker 2: because like your nervous systems like on fire, I can't

1345
01:12:35,320 --> 01:12:36,599
Speaker 2: even imagine fully drenched.

1346
01:12:38,320 --> 01:12:40,960
Speaker 8: What else is? Okay, well we can do one more.

1347
01:12:41,000 --> 01:12:44,360
Speaker 8: Let's see there's another talk back with another suggestion to Okay.

1348
01:12:44,800 --> 01:12:47,400
Speaker 13: Hey, ladies, I was wondering if you all had looked

1349
01:12:47,400 --> 01:12:51,000
Speaker 13: into the Sushier biology case. He was found.

1350
01:12:52,280 --> 01:12:53,160
Speaker 2: Dead in his.

1351
01:12:53,200 --> 01:12:57,080
Speaker 13: Apartment in November of last year. He was the AI whistleblower.

1352
01:12:57,600 --> 01:13:03,479
Speaker 13: His mom has done lots of interviews disputing the cause

1353
01:13:03,479 --> 01:13:04,840
Speaker 13: of death being a suicide.

1354
01:13:04,920 --> 01:13:06,720
Speaker 2: There's a lot of suspicious.

1355
01:13:06,160 --> 01:13:08,880
Speaker 13: Things going on there, so it's I wondered if you

1356
01:13:09,080 --> 01:13:11,880
Speaker 13: had looked into that, because there really haven't been any updates.

1357
01:13:12,280 --> 01:13:16,920
Speaker 8: Thanks, And that's another good one. Yeah, because I knew

1358
01:13:16,920 --> 01:13:19,240
Speaker 8: this talkback was coming, I did a little digging into

1359
01:13:19,280 --> 01:13:21,640
Speaker 8: it just to talk about it top line. But I

1360
01:13:21,680 --> 01:13:24,640
Speaker 8: think Body, you're familiar with this as well. But basically,

1361
01:13:25,479 --> 01:13:29,599
Speaker 8: Shadeer Bilagi, a twenty six year old former open AI

1362
01:13:29,760 --> 01:13:33,680
Speaker 8: researcher turned whistleblower, was found dead in his San Francisco

1363
01:13:33,720 --> 01:13:37,160
Speaker 8: apartment in November of twenty twenty four from what officials

1364
01:13:37,240 --> 01:13:41,960
Speaker 8: ruled as a self inflicted gunshot wound. Now, he had

1365
01:13:42,280 --> 01:13:47,400
Speaker 8: raised concerns about open AI's use of copyright, copywritten material

1366
01:13:47,920 --> 01:13:52,680
Speaker 8: and AI training, and was expected to testify in ongoing lawsuits.

1367
01:13:52,960 --> 01:13:56,040
Speaker 8: So that's where things make it seem a bit fishy

1368
01:13:56,080 --> 01:14:00,719
Speaker 8: and unusual. His death was fueled with widespread speculation, family

1369
01:14:00,760 --> 01:14:05,520
Speaker 8: members disputing the official suicide ruling and calling for further investigation.

1370
01:14:06,040 --> 01:14:10,320
Speaker 8: So it's you know, we've not talked about this one,

1371
01:14:10,360 --> 01:14:13,360
Speaker 8: but I find it fascinating. It actually makes me fascinating

1372
01:14:13,360 --> 01:14:18,240
Speaker 8: about the whole AI world, which turned yes, but I think.

1373
01:14:18,120 --> 01:14:20,720
Speaker 2: This case is an important one. Honestly, I feel like

1374
01:14:20,760 --> 01:14:24,519
Speaker 2: pretty versed in it myself too. As Body is also courtey,

1375
01:14:24,560 --> 01:14:26,519
Speaker 2: I'm sure you are as well, we've talked about it.

1376
01:14:27,120 --> 01:14:31,320
Speaker 2: This one actually is a real eye opener. The circumstances

1377
01:14:31,320 --> 01:14:36,920
Speaker 2: are interesting and we do not know enough, but I

1378
01:14:37,000 --> 01:14:39,120
Speaker 2: do think it warrants a bit of a deep dive.

1379
01:14:39,280 --> 01:14:42,600
Speaker 2: I am agreed tell that and interested in whistleblowers in

1380
01:14:42,680 --> 01:14:44,439
Speaker 2: general and in AI.

1381
01:14:44,640 --> 01:14:47,960
Speaker 3: I mean, this is hundreds of billions of dollars on

1382
01:14:48,040 --> 01:14:52,240
Speaker 3: the line, lit so much so that in and of

1383
01:14:52,280 --> 01:14:55,360
Speaker 3: itself is just pause for you know what is it?

1384
01:14:55,439 --> 01:15:00,160
Speaker 3: The power corrupts, Absolute power corupts absolutely, and it just

1385
01:15:00,640 --> 01:15:04,080
Speaker 3: everything deserves a second.

1386
01:15:04,120 --> 01:15:09,240
Speaker 2: This is absolute power corrupt absolutely. Yeah.

1387
01:15:09,280 --> 01:15:12,000
Speaker 5: Interesting and no, this is this is the case. I

1388
01:15:12,000 --> 01:15:14,080
Speaker 5: think that I would be willing to dive with you guys,

1389
01:15:14,080 --> 01:15:16,800
Speaker 5: if you want to say, let's do it, because I

1390
01:15:17,040 --> 01:15:20,439
Speaker 5: seem to recall something about the parents saying that it

1391
01:15:20,520 --> 01:15:23,480
Speaker 5: could not have been a suicide due to the trajectory

1392
01:15:23,520 --> 01:15:24,080
Speaker 5: of the bullet.

1393
01:15:25,320 --> 01:15:26,080
Speaker 6: There there's a.

1394
01:15:26,080 --> 01:15:28,200
Speaker 5: Lot of differends of things too, and maybe we can

1395
01:15:28,280 --> 01:15:33,040
Speaker 5: even ask jose So I think this would be an

1396
01:15:33,040 --> 01:15:35,920
Speaker 5: interesting one to do. I really appreciate the suggestion from this.

1397
01:15:36,800 --> 01:15:38,679
Speaker 2: And by the way, even though we were just chatting

1398
01:15:38,720 --> 01:15:41,360
Speaker 2: before the show or even the break body, you were

1399
01:15:41,360 --> 01:15:43,799
Speaker 2: even We're all like, AI is here.

1400
01:15:43,920 --> 01:15:46,840
Speaker 6: Dude, Yeah, and it has real.

1401
01:15:47,400 --> 01:15:49,320
Speaker 5: Can I tell you about this video I saw today?

1402
01:15:49,479 --> 01:15:51,120
Speaker 6: Yes, I tell us everything.

1403
01:15:51,920 --> 01:15:54,120
Speaker 5: I saw a video of a man okay, and it's

1404
01:15:54,160 --> 01:15:57,559
Speaker 5: at the top of the video, okay, and he aied

1405
01:15:57,640 --> 01:16:01,200
Speaker 5: himself to look like Taylor Swift and he's giving like

1406
01:16:01,240 --> 01:16:04,599
Speaker 5: this speech and the video morse from him to Taylor Swift.

1407
01:16:04,680 --> 01:16:07,120
Speaker 5: I swear to god, I would not have been able

1408
01:16:07,160 --> 01:16:09,960
Speaker 5: to tell you that this was AI. It was so

1409
01:16:10,200 --> 01:16:12,760
Speaker 5: perfectly well done. And I'm like, if I didn't know

1410
01:16:12,800 --> 01:16:15,479
Speaker 5: any better and he didn't show me that it was

1411
01:16:15,520 --> 01:16:19,160
Speaker 5: really him, I would have literally thought Taylor Swift was

1412
01:16:19,200 --> 01:16:19,920
Speaker 5: giving this speech.

1413
01:16:20,080 --> 01:16:20,960
Speaker 2: It was fun.

1414
01:16:21,560 --> 01:16:24,719
Speaker 5: And I am listen, what if somebody does an AI

1415
01:16:24,800 --> 01:16:27,679
Speaker 5: of me, like breaking into Taha's like locker or something.

1416
01:16:28,560 --> 01:16:30,080
Speaker 2: Do you know what I mean? Like, well, we would

1417
01:16:30,120 --> 01:16:32,599
Speaker 2: stand up for you and we would true, that's right.

1418
01:16:33,240 --> 01:16:35,080
Speaker 2: Well I don't know. But if I saw it on

1419
01:16:35,160 --> 01:16:36,080
Speaker 2: camera and.

1420
01:16:35,960 --> 01:16:38,960
Speaker 5: Taha's and Tom has said, body did this to me

1421
01:16:39,000 --> 01:16:40,200
Speaker 5: and he created this video?

1422
01:16:40,360 --> 01:16:41,559
Speaker 6: Ta, why are you setting me up?

1423
01:16:41,880 --> 01:16:46,679
Speaker 2: I said, for any of this, no way, no how,

1424
01:16:46,960 --> 01:16:49,240
Speaker 2: no way, no how, stick around.

1425
01:16:49,360 --> 01:16:50,599
Speaker 5: We have more to dig into.

1426
01:16:50,760 --> 01:16:51,360
Speaker 2: Keep it right here.

1427
01:16:51,439 --> 01:16:54,040
Speaker 5: True Crime Tonight. We're talking true crime all the time.

1428
01:17:03,680 --> 01:17:06,200
Speaker 2: Welcome back to True Crime Tonight and I Heart Radio.

1429
01:17:06,360 --> 01:17:10,040
Speaker 2: We're talking true crime all the time. I'm Stephanieleidecker here

1430
01:17:10,040 --> 01:17:14,519
Speaker 2: with Courtney Armstrong, body Movin. Welcome to Talk Back Tuesday. Listen.

1431
01:17:14,920 --> 01:17:17,880
Speaker 2: The night is still young quite technically, so eighty eight

1432
01:17:17,920 --> 01:17:20,759
Speaker 2: to three one crime, Join us or leave us a talkback.

1433
01:17:20,880 --> 01:17:24,639
Speaker 2: In fact, let's toss to Adam for a talkback right now.

1434
01:17:25,200 --> 01:17:28,120
Speaker 14: Hey, ladies, love the show. My name is Jared. I'm

1435
01:17:28,160 --> 01:17:31,599
Speaker 14: calling from the Pacific Northwest. I'm a little behind. I'm

1436
01:17:31,640 --> 01:17:35,760
Speaker 14: listening to your doomsday murder episode and I just wanted

1437
01:17:35,840 --> 01:17:37,960
Speaker 14: to tell you, ladies, I'm a little concerned for you

1438
01:17:38,360 --> 01:17:42,200
Speaker 14: with you talking about these killers who are still alive

1439
01:17:42,320 --> 01:17:45,320
Speaker 14: and bad mouthing them. Please be safe. They do have

1440
01:17:45,400 --> 01:17:47,200
Speaker 14: followers and they can reach out.

1441
01:17:48,160 --> 01:17:49,200
Speaker 5: I know that all too well.

1442
01:17:49,760 --> 01:17:50,240
Speaker 2: Trust me.

1443
01:17:50,960 --> 01:17:52,559
Speaker 5: After you don't have f with cats came out, I

1444
01:17:52,720 --> 01:17:56,960
Speaker 5: was literally hounded, even in real life. Yeah, I had

1445
01:17:56,960 --> 01:18:00,639
Speaker 5: to call the police like three times. Oh wow, people

1446
01:18:00,640 --> 01:18:02,640
Speaker 5: showing up at my house. Yeah for sure, I had

1447
01:18:02,680 --> 01:18:07,400
Speaker 5: to move. Yeah, I completely listen. This guy is Jared.

1448
01:18:07,439 --> 01:18:10,960
Speaker 5: Thank you for the concern. You're speaking the truth. I

1449
01:18:10,960 --> 01:18:13,880
Speaker 5: have my CCW, I carry a weapon every single day

1450
01:18:13,920 --> 01:18:14,320
Speaker 5: in my life.

1451
01:18:15,280 --> 01:18:17,519
Speaker 6: I am not the one to mess with. I promise

1452
01:18:17,560 --> 01:18:17,760
Speaker 6: you that.

1453
01:18:18,760 --> 01:18:22,000
Speaker 2: By the way, I'm gonna second that nomination. She's not

1454
01:18:22,080 --> 01:18:24,080
Speaker 2: the one to mess with. And by the way, nor

1455
01:18:24,080 --> 01:18:26,840
Speaker 2: am I. I have learned so much on this show.

1456
01:18:27,160 --> 01:18:29,960
Speaker 2: This is not a dare no. But I'm not messing

1457
01:18:29,960 --> 01:18:36,400
Speaker 2: around either, right, It's very thoughtful and it is and

1458
01:18:36,439 --> 01:18:36,880
Speaker 2: he's right.

1459
01:18:37,000 --> 01:18:40,559
Speaker 5: These these people, these people that are in jail for

1460
01:18:40,800 --> 01:18:45,280
Speaker 5: crimes that they've been convicted of, have fans. They one

1461
01:18:45,640 --> 01:18:49,080
Speaker 5: percent have fans. And we know this, right, So every

1462
01:18:49,080 --> 01:18:52,679
Speaker 5: time we say, you know FBK or you know something

1463
01:18:53,280 --> 01:18:56,879
Speaker 5: along those lines where we're you know, kind of spouting

1464
01:18:56,960 --> 01:19:00,880
Speaker 5: off about a murderer or a rapist store somebody that

1465
01:19:00,920 --> 01:19:03,760
Speaker 5: he knows been convicted of a violent crime, someone out

1466
01:19:03,800 --> 01:19:06,720
Speaker 5: there gets the little double horns, you know how you

1467
01:19:06,720 --> 01:19:10,240
Speaker 5: say like a bell and the angel gets your wings get.

1468
01:19:12,640 --> 01:19:12,880
Speaker 8: Skin.

1469
01:19:13,520 --> 01:19:15,960
Speaker 5: And a lot of these threats come online too, a

1470
01:19:15,960 --> 01:19:18,240
Speaker 5: lot of people online, but I mean they manifested in

1471
01:19:18,280 --> 01:19:18,599
Speaker 5: real life.

1472
01:19:18,600 --> 01:19:19,639
Speaker 6: For me, yeah, I get it.

1473
01:19:20,080 --> 01:19:23,000
Speaker 2: How what what is a doomsday episode that you guys

1474
01:19:23,040 --> 01:19:26,639
Speaker 2: referring to. I'm not even just day bells, the day bells,

1475
01:19:27,160 --> 01:19:30,160
Speaker 2: you know what. We were loose gooses that night. And

1476
01:19:30,200 --> 01:19:33,519
Speaker 2: by the way, that was a weird night. Actually, I'm

1477
01:19:33,520 --> 01:19:35,559
Speaker 2: glad we're talking about it because it has actually sup me.

1478
01:19:35,920 --> 01:19:38,000
Speaker 2: We it was in it was a heavy night in

1479
01:19:38,040 --> 01:19:40,760
Speaker 2: the country, and we sort of were like, let's talk

1480
01:19:40,760 --> 01:19:44,759
Speaker 2: about the day bells a little bit because we're making

1481
01:19:44,840 --> 01:19:48,960
Speaker 2: us h It almost seemed as though it was I

1482
01:19:49,080 --> 01:19:52,439
Speaker 2: might have been a little glib even because we were

1483
01:19:53,320 --> 01:19:55,559
Speaker 2: it was a dark time, and we sort of shifted

1484
01:19:55,600 --> 01:19:58,040
Speaker 2: gears to whether it was Brian Coburg or the day

1485
01:19:58,040 --> 01:20:01,160
Speaker 2: bells some of the cases that we have before, which

1486
01:20:01,920 --> 01:20:04,880
Speaker 2: maybe it may maybe may have felt as though it's like, oh,

1487
01:20:04,960 --> 01:20:08,719
Speaker 2: let's hop withut this instead, how much better? It's actually terrible.

1488
01:20:09,240 --> 01:20:11,800
Speaker 2: So that's a fair point. And that was a fair

1489
01:20:11,880 --> 01:20:14,479
Speaker 2: point to that night specifically, was.

1490
01:20:14,479 --> 01:20:16,880
Speaker 6: This the night that Charlie Kirk was assassinated or something?

1491
01:20:16,880 --> 01:20:17,200
Speaker 8: Correct?

1492
01:20:21,120 --> 01:20:24,000
Speaker 2: We actually talked, We actually talked about it. We thought

1493
01:20:24,000 --> 01:20:28,160
Speaker 2: it real time of like that came out wrong. And yeah,

1494
01:20:28,560 --> 01:20:31,719
Speaker 2: by the way, that's a it's a double fair point, Jared,

1495
01:20:31,840 --> 01:20:35,320
Speaker 2: because the neither you were listening to might make somebody

1496
01:20:35,320 --> 01:20:38,800
Speaker 2: feel like, hey, really, what about me? Jell like a

1497
01:20:38,800 --> 01:20:42,960
Speaker 2: little bit like what up, I'm guessing, But we also

1498
01:20:43,120 --> 01:20:45,639
Speaker 2: kind of all blackout during the show. It is literally

1499
01:20:45,680 --> 01:20:49,320
Speaker 2: a conversation, so we are humans and we're speaking in

1500
01:20:49,360 --> 01:20:53,200
Speaker 2: the moment. But there also are some very significant ways

1501
01:20:53,680 --> 01:20:58,040
Speaker 2: to keep yourself out of the easy find the easy

1502
01:20:58,400 --> 01:21:01,920
Speaker 2: access of all that we've learned along the way through

1503
01:21:02,000 --> 01:21:05,559
Speaker 2: other horrible tragedies that have been able to pay some

1504
01:21:05,680 --> 01:21:08,680
Speaker 2: information forward. And Buddy, you have promised we're going to

1505
01:21:08,680 --> 01:21:11,280
Speaker 2: do a deep dive on that too. We are unpacking

1506
01:21:11,280 --> 01:21:13,719
Speaker 2: that and in cells the new podcast by the Way,

1507
01:21:13,880 --> 01:21:19,799
Speaker 2: Idaho Podcast season three too, oh unpacked central happening there also,

1508
01:21:19,880 --> 01:21:23,240
Speaker 2: so please download that on the iHeart app. But to

1509
01:21:23,360 --> 01:21:28,360
Speaker 2: Jared's point, you know, everybody has to have personal where

1510
01:21:28,400 --> 01:21:32,280
Speaker 2: we all have to keep ourselves safe the end, even

1511
01:21:32,320 --> 01:21:35,200
Speaker 2: if it's not just the person behind bars, it's the

1512
01:21:35,240 --> 01:21:39,320
Speaker 2: person who's just you know, obsessed, obsessed, or the person

1513
01:21:39,400 --> 01:21:43,120
Speaker 2: who has weird thoughts that you know, we can't predict

1514
01:21:43,120 --> 01:21:45,240
Speaker 2: this stuff, so it's hard.

1515
01:21:45,360 --> 01:21:49,559
Speaker 3: You can't predict where anyone's malice sort of if they

1516
01:21:49,600 --> 01:21:52,800
Speaker 3: have you know, malice or something going on mentally that

1517
01:21:52,840 --> 01:21:56,920
Speaker 3: they're going to project somewhere. You can't always. I mean,

1518
01:21:56,960 --> 01:21:59,479
Speaker 3: there is you know, common sense safety. But yeah, that

1519
01:21:59,600 --> 01:22:02,000
Speaker 3: is a real a fair point, and that was it

1520
01:22:02,040 --> 01:22:04,879
Speaker 3: was almost like a sadness mania now that I'm remembering,

1521
01:22:05,080 --> 01:22:07,240
Speaker 3: because that was a very strange night.

1522
01:22:07,400 --> 01:22:10,840
Speaker 2: And yeah, so are we sure that's the night, because

1523
01:22:10,880 --> 01:22:12,320
Speaker 2: that would be interesting if it was.

1524
01:22:13,160 --> 01:22:14,920
Speaker 8: I don't remember if that was a I know it

1525
01:22:14,960 --> 01:22:17,320
Speaker 8: was a heavy night. I feel like it might have been.

1526
01:22:17,320 --> 01:22:18,800
Speaker 8: I'm going to have to go back and double check,

1527
01:22:18,840 --> 01:22:22,160
Speaker 8: but I know it was. I think it was evening

1528
01:22:22,200 --> 01:22:23,440
Speaker 8: we were talking about.

1529
01:22:23,200 --> 01:22:26,439
Speaker 3: But doomsday. I'm sure it was talking about Chad and Laurie.

1530
01:22:27,080 --> 01:22:28,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, I can't, but.

1531
01:22:28,439 --> 01:22:30,840
Speaker 8: But I can't remember what we why we shifted to that.

1532
01:22:30,920 --> 01:22:33,920
Speaker 8: But but yeah, I appreciate Jared pointing that out and

1533
01:22:33,960 --> 01:22:36,360
Speaker 8: saying it. And I'm sorry to hear body. Ye safety

1534
01:22:37,040 --> 01:22:40,280
Speaker 8: that because it is important. And if anybody out there

1535
01:22:40,280 --> 01:22:43,080
Speaker 8: listening as a crazy stalker, we all live in Dubai

1536
01:22:43,320 --> 01:22:45,160
Speaker 8: and they.

1537
01:22:45,000 --> 01:22:48,240
Speaker 2: Don't play around there. That's right. Dead sentence.

1538
01:22:48,560 --> 01:22:50,519
Speaker 5: By the way, how did you do with that body?

1539
01:22:51,320 --> 01:22:53,600
Speaker 5: I was terrified. I mean I was terrified. And you know,

1540
01:22:53,640 --> 01:22:55,680
Speaker 5: at the time, my mom was still around and I

1541
01:22:55,720 --> 01:22:57,960
Speaker 5: was taking care of her, so I was trying to

1542
01:22:58,040 --> 01:23:02,160
Speaker 5: manage her you know, illness and whatnot. In getting you know,

1543
01:23:02,240 --> 01:23:05,519
Speaker 5: pizzas sent to my house, people showing up, knocking and running.

1544
01:23:06,600 --> 01:23:09,200
Speaker 5: I mean, I wasn't like they weren't threatening. Now, the

1545
01:23:09,280 --> 01:23:12,439
Speaker 5: DMS I got were life threatening, like they threatened to

1546
01:23:12,520 --> 01:23:14,760
Speaker 5: kill me and things like that. But you know, the

1547
01:23:14,880 --> 01:23:17,519
Speaker 5: in real life stuff was more like just ding dong

1548
01:23:17,600 --> 01:23:19,640
Speaker 5: ditching and sending pizzas to my house and stuff like

1549
01:23:19,680 --> 01:23:22,480
Speaker 5: that because yeah.

1550
01:23:22,479 --> 01:23:24,439
Speaker 2: And you had to move. I mean, think about it

1551
01:23:24,439 --> 01:23:27,400
Speaker 2: that it's really a traumatic thing as well. Here you

1552
01:23:27,479 --> 01:23:28,960
Speaker 2: are trying life.

1553
01:23:29,720 --> 01:23:34,240
Speaker 6: Yeah, totally your life, right, that's crazy. You gotta do

1554
01:23:34,280 --> 01:23:34,760
Speaker 6: what you gotta do.

1555
01:23:35,040 --> 01:23:37,720
Speaker 5: I mean, anytime you become some sort of like and

1556
01:23:37,760 --> 01:23:41,040
Speaker 5: I use this term kind of loosely public figure, you know,

1557
01:23:41,439 --> 01:23:44,439
Speaker 5: you kind of put yourself on, you know, in the

1558
01:23:44,560 --> 01:23:46,479
Speaker 5: in the spotlight, and people might not like what you

1559
01:23:46,520 --> 01:23:46,960
Speaker 5: have to say.

1560
01:23:48,080 --> 01:23:49,840
Speaker 6: You have to it's a chance that you have to take.

1561
01:23:49,920 --> 01:23:53,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, and interestingly, as just a pet piggyback on the

1562
01:23:53,080 --> 01:23:56,920
Speaker 2: in Cells Conversation podcast, anytime you put yourself on social media,

1563
01:23:57,400 --> 01:24:03,120
Speaker 2: you were actually becoming a celebri or a you know, presence,

1564
01:24:04,240 --> 01:24:07,840
Speaker 2: which puts you limited public, a limited public figure that

1565
01:24:07,880 --> 01:24:11,679
Speaker 2: puts you in equal danger. So something for us all

1566
01:24:11,720 --> 01:24:12,360
Speaker 2: to think about.

1567
01:24:12,840 --> 01:24:15,160
Speaker 6: Yeah, that's a really good, really good one. Do we

1568
01:24:15,160 --> 01:24:16,040
Speaker 6: have any anymore?

1569
01:24:16,320 --> 01:24:17,360
Speaker 8: Yeah, let's get another talk.

1570
01:24:18,000 --> 01:24:22,320
Speaker 12: Okay, hey all, listen for from Canada calling. I just

1571
01:24:22,960 --> 01:24:27,640
Speaker 12: listen to your podcast from yesterday about who are the

1572
01:24:27,640 --> 01:24:29,639
Speaker 12: people that you're thankful for? And I just wanted to say,

1573
01:24:29,640 --> 01:24:33,680
Speaker 12: I'm thanks to my mom Avanta, also from Canada. I'm

1574
01:24:33,680 --> 01:24:36,360
Speaker 12: something for her and just the support that she's always

1575
01:24:36,360 --> 01:24:39,840
Speaker 12: shown me and loved and yeah, that's all covering I think.

1576
01:24:41,040 --> 01:24:47,679
Speaker 2: Oh my goodness, wildfire love is it our heroes catching fire?

1577
01:24:47,880 --> 01:24:48,599
Speaker 2: I love it.

1578
01:24:49,000 --> 01:24:51,519
Speaker 8: And we're going to be continuing that. I'm actually going

1579
01:24:51,600 --> 01:24:53,800
Speaker 8: to be talking to our next hero, the one that

1580
01:24:53,840 --> 01:24:56,680
Speaker 8: we that's next up on our list. I'm going to

1581
01:24:56,760 --> 01:24:58,439
Speaker 8: save that all for tomorrow, but we're going to be

1582
01:24:58,479 --> 01:25:00,960
Speaker 8: talking and we'll hear our new We're going to keep

1583
01:25:00,960 --> 01:25:02,960
Speaker 8: this cycle going, by the way.

1584
01:25:02,880 --> 01:25:06,400
Speaker 2: Keep it coming, like it is such a welcomed it's

1585
01:25:06,400 --> 01:25:10,240
Speaker 2: such a welcome thought, like it's anything happy happening. And

1586
01:25:10,280 --> 01:25:13,840
Speaker 2: by the way, happy doesn't mean necessarily, Hey, I bought

1587
01:25:13,840 --> 01:25:16,520
Speaker 2: a house, I I did all these great things. Happiness

1588
01:25:16,520 --> 01:25:19,560
Speaker 2: could be. Hey, I got out of bed today and

1589
01:25:19,680 --> 01:25:23,400
Speaker 2: took a darn shower, and it's like, I feel like

1590
01:25:23,560 --> 01:25:27,519
Speaker 2: it's worth noting. So, you know, increments. Share your stories,

1591
01:25:27,560 --> 01:25:31,040
Speaker 2: share your happiness, share your feelings, share your moments.

1592
01:25:30,600 --> 01:25:33,559
Speaker 5: And trust me, I think well at least one of

1593
01:25:33,600 --> 01:25:35,000
Speaker 5: us will relate right to.

1594
01:25:37,080 --> 01:25:39,880
Speaker 8: Oh my gosh, Jehanie, you were sharing some happy news

1595
01:25:39,880 --> 01:25:43,080
Speaker 8: that you just read about about the little boy, Oh.

1596
01:25:42,960 --> 01:25:45,360
Speaker 2: My goodness, the little boy in the recent shooting the

1597
01:25:45,400 --> 01:25:48,040
Speaker 2: Minnesota Catholic school. If you guys remember this, this is

1598
01:25:48,120 --> 01:25:52,280
Speaker 2: now dating a bit, and you know, there was all

1599
01:25:52,320 --> 01:25:54,800
Speaker 2: this news coverage they were there were like little elementary

1600
01:25:54,800 --> 01:25:58,439
Speaker 2: school students, and there was this one little little boy

1601
01:25:58,520 --> 01:26:00,759
Speaker 2: that I think we even spoke about it real time.

1602
01:26:01,600 --> 01:26:05,320
Speaker 2: His name is escaping me real time, and he was

1603
01:26:05,400 --> 01:26:09,360
Speaker 2: so cute and basically in the midst of this tragedy,

1604
01:26:09,680 --> 01:26:13,559
Speaker 2: he like jumped on his buddy's body, saved his life,

1605
01:26:13,800 --> 01:26:16,679
Speaker 2: by the way, took a hit. And this little boy

1606
01:26:16,720 --> 01:26:18,640
Speaker 2: with the red hair was talking to the news and

1607
01:26:18,680 --> 01:26:22,120
Speaker 2: we all were discussing it, saying, my friend saved my

1608
01:26:22,160 --> 01:26:26,400
Speaker 2: life and that friends has just been released from the hospital.

1609
01:26:26,640 --> 01:26:30,479
Speaker 2: And those later and we're hearing lots of the stories

1610
01:26:30,520 --> 01:26:36,799
Speaker 2: from this time period that at least at least stories

1611
01:26:36,840 --> 01:26:39,360
Speaker 2: of survival. I suppose I wouldn't say happiness.

1612
01:26:40,000 --> 01:26:45,760
Speaker 3: And well, there's another one from the very same Minneapolis

1613
01:26:45,760 --> 01:26:50,880
Speaker 3: school shooting who this came out today and a seventh grade,

1614
01:26:50,920 --> 01:26:55,600
Speaker 3: twelve year old girl. She was arguably the most seriously injured.

1615
01:26:55,720 --> 01:26:58,679
Speaker 3: She had a bullet lodged in her brain and it's

1616
01:26:58,720 --> 01:27:03,840
Speaker 3: been called a miraculus, this recovery. So that is, and

1617
01:27:03,880 --> 01:27:06,040
Speaker 3: she got released today news of today.

1618
01:27:06,960 --> 01:27:09,840
Speaker 2: Let's see, I might have said Minnesota to Mins.

1619
01:27:10,120 --> 01:27:11,919
Speaker 6: What is the name of the scholia Minnesota?

1620
01:27:12,160 --> 01:27:12,360
Speaker 4: Yeah?

1621
01:27:12,400 --> 01:27:13,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, what was the name of the school that was

1622
01:27:13,840 --> 01:27:20,679
Speaker 2: a Catholic school? Catholic school, Catholic school? Annunciation? I feel

1623
01:27:20,680 --> 01:27:22,120
Speaker 2: like I want to say, be wrong.

1624
01:27:22,520 --> 01:27:29,599
Speaker 5: I think, yeah, but annunciation enunciation or something. Yeah, Catholic school. Yeah,

1625
01:27:30,160 --> 01:27:33,759
Speaker 5: that sounds familiar, so tragic, so hideous, but like again,

1626
01:27:34,200 --> 01:27:35,599
Speaker 5: it speaks to these young kids.

1627
01:27:35,600 --> 01:27:40,160
Speaker 2: This is the elementary school kids, the instinct to jump

1628
01:27:40,520 --> 01:27:42,799
Speaker 2: in your friend.

1629
01:27:42,880 --> 01:27:45,200
Speaker 5: Wait a minute, So the kid that the person that

1630
01:27:45,320 --> 01:27:47,320
Speaker 5: was released that you're talking about, so he was also

1631
01:27:47,360 --> 01:27:48,000
Speaker 5: a little.

1632
01:27:47,720 --> 01:27:52,479
Speaker 2: Boy, yes, feature no, no, classmate was a little boy,

1633
01:27:52,720 --> 01:27:56,439
Speaker 2: the little red haired boy. And accord, I see right now,

1634
01:27:56,640 --> 01:27:59,160
Speaker 2: he's so cute. You've seen it. He was like the

1635
01:27:59,240 --> 01:28:02,880
Speaker 2: cutest human it's ever lived. And he amongst many cute

1636
01:28:02,920 --> 01:28:04,720
Speaker 2: humans in the school. But he was talking to the

1637
01:28:04,760 --> 01:28:07,880
Speaker 2: press saying, this was very traumatic. In fact, my best

1638
01:28:07,920 --> 01:28:12,400
Speaker 2: buddy jumped over me and he saved my life. And

1639
01:28:12,600 --> 01:28:14,439
Speaker 2: if you don't want to have your heart ripped open,

1640
01:28:14,800 --> 01:28:17,640
Speaker 2: imagine this little boy saying that his buddy, in the

1641
01:28:17,680 --> 01:28:21,519
Speaker 2: midst of a school shooting, jumped on him and spared

1642
01:28:21,600 --> 01:28:28,719
Speaker 2: his life. That little boy who could literally instinctively jumped

1643
01:28:28,760 --> 01:28:31,880
Speaker 2: on his buddy like that, Is that a trained thing?

1644
01:28:32,160 --> 01:28:34,920
Speaker 2: This is like in the bones. If we don't need

1645
01:28:35,000 --> 01:28:38,600
Speaker 2: proof that the human behavior is so real and beautiful,

1646
01:28:39,000 --> 01:28:41,559
Speaker 2: this kid just did it. And he's now been released

1647
01:28:41,560 --> 01:28:47,480
Speaker 2: from the hospital. And that is heroism at its most instinctual.

1648
01:28:48,280 --> 01:28:54,760
Speaker 15: Talk about it, and it was it was Weston, West Yes, Weston,

1649
01:28:55,200 --> 01:28:59,000
Speaker 15: I'm going to hold his last ten year old, and

1650
01:28:59,800 --> 01:29:04,879
Speaker 15: he talked about the fact that his friend Victor saved

1651
01:29:04,960 --> 01:29:08,679
Speaker 15: him by lying on top of him and yes.

1652
01:29:10,040 --> 01:29:12,400
Speaker 2: Oh yes, he's been in the hospital and he got

1653
01:29:12,479 --> 01:29:15,240
Speaker 2: hit in This little boy so ten years old. What

1654
01:29:15,280 --> 01:29:15,800
Speaker 2: grade is that?

1655
01:29:15,960 --> 01:29:16,320
Speaker 4: What is that?

1656
01:29:16,360 --> 01:29:19,280
Speaker 2: Fourth grade? Fifth grade? Fourth or fifth? Yeah, imagine the

1657
01:29:19,360 --> 01:29:22,679
Speaker 2: hirow and this and the fear that has come over.

1658
01:29:22,880 --> 01:29:25,360
Speaker 2: We're not prepared for that as a young person in

1659
01:29:25,400 --> 01:29:30,320
Speaker 2: this little nobody nobody is and what you wonder, what

1660
01:29:30,360 --> 01:29:32,920
Speaker 2: does a human do in that moment of inflection? We

1661
01:29:32,960 --> 01:29:35,599
Speaker 2: talk about this all the time to nauseum. Frankly, it

1662
01:29:35,680 --> 01:29:39,800
Speaker 2: is like the heroes speak, what makes you jump in

1663
01:29:40,280 --> 01:29:43,759
Speaker 2: save the day? It sometimes you are not trained for it.

1664
01:29:43,840 --> 01:29:47,679
Speaker 2: This kid, Victor, he was not trained yet. He jumped

1665
01:29:47,680 --> 01:29:50,000
Speaker 2: on top of his best friend and spared his life

1666
01:29:50,040 --> 01:29:52,400
Speaker 2: and he has been in the hospital for all of

1667
01:29:52,439 --> 01:29:57,040
Speaker 2: this time. Thankfully God blessed released. But it just shows

1668
01:29:57,080 --> 01:29:59,840
Speaker 2: like like there's some there's something so deeply good and

1669
01:30:00,080 --> 01:30:03,720
Speaker 2: everyone and all of us, and it's just in sinctual right,

1670
01:30:03,840 --> 01:30:06,880
Speaker 2: Like sometimes that gets piled on with like noise and

1671
01:30:06,920 --> 01:30:11,080
Speaker 2: then that becomes something else. But at its core, Victor,

1672
01:30:11,400 --> 01:30:12,040
Speaker 2: it's beautiful.

1673
01:30:14,880 --> 01:30:15,080
Speaker 9: Yeah.

1674
01:30:16,360 --> 01:30:19,599
Speaker 8: Well, well, I don't know if we have time.

1675
01:30:19,439 --> 01:30:25,160
Speaker 2: How do we follow up to all things? Yeah?

1676
01:30:25,400 --> 01:30:28,000
Speaker 8: How about I talk about tomorrow what we're going to

1677
01:30:28,040 --> 01:30:30,160
Speaker 8: be focused on, which is we're going to be doing

1678
01:30:30,200 --> 01:30:32,760
Speaker 8: our true crime and chill and I want to make

1679
01:30:32,800 --> 01:30:35,880
Speaker 8: sure that everyone is you know, what we should be watching.

1680
01:30:35,720 --> 01:30:40,960
Speaker 3: I watched last night lover Stalker Killer on neglic You guys,

1681
01:30:41,040 --> 01:30:42,439
Speaker 3: it's way to talk about this.

1682
01:30:42,600 --> 01:30:45,960
Speaker 8: It's a yeah, you were right, body, It's it's so far.

1683
01:30:46,040 --> 01:30:48,040
Speaker 8: I've only gotten through halfway and I'm going to watch

1684
01:30:48,040 --> 01:30:53,360
Speaker 8: the rest tonight. It's been a busy weeks.

1685
01:30:53,120 --> 01:30:57,320
Speaker 2: Has been a busy way in mind. I have you

1686
01:30:57,400 --> 01:30:59,720
Speaker 2: not how did you even stop it halfway through? I

1687
01:30:59,800 --> 01:31:00,880
Speaker 2: have I do this.

1688
01:31:00,960 --> 01:31:03,280
Speaker 8: That's the only reason why I can't wait to get

1689
01:31:03,320 --> 01:31:05,360
Speaker 8: back there. But it's phenomenal.

1690
01:31:05,400 --> 01:31:07,240
Speaker 5: It's one of those kinds of documentaries where you watch

1691
01:31:07,280 --> 01:31:11,040
Speaker 5: it and that you literally cannot imagine the ending right

1692
01:31:11,520 --> 01:31:14,120
Speaker 5: and as soon as you're like it literally takes your

1693
01:31:14,120 --> 01:31:16,599
Speaker 5: breath away, and it literally never ever, I never want

1694
01:31:16,640 --> 01:31:17,000
Speaker 5: to get.

1695
01:31:18,920 --> 01:31:19,080
Speaker 8: Going.

1696
01:31:19,320 --> 01:31:21,760
Speaker 2: I started watching it before the show and had to

1697
01:31:21,760 --> 01:31:26,479
Speaker 2: stop it. I think I would have missed the show.

1698
01:31:25,920 --> 01:31:30,280
Speaker 8: I thought about it, but I mean, aside from like

1699
01:31:30,320 --> 01:31:33,280
Speaker 8: the storyline, the way it shot, the cinematography so good.

1700
01:31:33,920 --> 01:31:36,840
Speaker 8: So we're going to dig into that one tomorrow, big one.

1701
01:31:36,920 --> 01:31:38,920
Speaker 8: So I'm yeah, what's.

1702
01:31:38,760 --> 01:31:44,400
Speaker 2: That documentary called again? It's lover Stalker Killer on Netflix. Yeah,

1703
01:31:44,479 --> 01:31:46,519
Speaker 2: we should all get work for Netflix. I feel like

1704
01:31:46,560 --> 01:31:51,479
Speaker 2: we're I swear we are not sponsored, or I'll take you.

1705
01:31:51,920 --> 01:31:54,200
Speaker 2: I could use a best spot. You should just get

1706
01:31:54,200 --> 01:31:55,440
Speaker 2: a geta.

1707
01:31:56,760 --> 01:31:59,280
Speaker 5: I have two shows on Netflix and I haven't written

1708
01:31:59,439 --> 01:32:00,400
Speaker 5: anything from them.

1709
01:32:00,640 --> 01:32:04,519
Speaker 6: Well you say our lost Netflix. Okay, I helped to

1710
01:32:04,560 --> 01:32:07,519
Speaker 6: survive COVID. Okay, you owe me something.

1711
01:32:07,600 --> 01:32:10,840
Speaker 2: Okay, that's true. I will say this. I owe you

1712
01:32:10,920 --> 01:32:12,920
Speaker 2: my heart because you helped me survive COVID.

1713
01:32:13,280 --> 01:32:14,599
Speaker 8: Truly, truly true.

1714
01:32:15,320 --> 01:32:18,799
Speaker 2: Yeah, that is a true thing. By the way, Diddy

1715
01:32:19,200 --> 01:32:22,040
Speaker 2: for hearing tomorrow. We have a lot too. I'm back there.

1716
01:32:22,160 --> 01:32:24,000
Speaker 2: I hate to even say the word and drop it

1717
01:32:24,040 --> 01:32:26,160
Speaker 2: on the out here, but all I'm gonna say is

1718
01:32:26,200 --> 01:32:29,880
Speaker 2: this did He's back in court. Lots of unpack, lots

1719
01:32:29,920 --> 01:32:32,360
Speaker 2: do impack. Listen, tonight was great.

1720
01:32:32,400 --> 01:32:35,599
Speaker 3: We can't wait to speak to you tomorrow night and

1721
01:32:35,760 --> 01:32:39,360
Speaker 3: hear from you as well. And yes, stay safe, be good,

1722
01:32:39,479 --> 01:32:40,240
Speaker 3: true Graham tonight.

1723
01:32:40,920 --> 01:32:41,160
Speaker 11: Back