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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Therapy for Black Girls Podcast, a weekly

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Speaker 1: conversation about mental health, personal development, and all the small

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Speaker 1: decisions we can make to become the best possible versions

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Speaker 1: of ourselves. I'm your host, doctor Joy Hard and Bradford,

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Speaker 1: a licensed psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia. For more information or

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Speaker 1: to find a therapist in your area, visit our website

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Speaker 1: at Therapy for Blackgirls dot com. While I hope you

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Speaker 1: love listening to and learning from the podcast, it is

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Speaker 1: not meant to be a substitute for a relationship with

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Speaker 1: a licensed mental health professional. Hey, y'all, thanks so much

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Speaker 1: for joining me for session three sixty one of the

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Speaker 1: Therapy for Black Girls Podcast. We'll get right into our

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Speaker 1: conversation after a word from our sponsors.

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Speaker 2: Hi, everybody, I'm Tiffany Cross and I'm on the Therapy

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Speaker 2: for Black Girls podcast, and I'm so excited to be here.

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Speaker 1: Many of us were devastated in twenty twenty two when

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Speaker 1: MSNBC decided to cancel The Cross Connection, a news show

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Speaker 1: that was one of its kind in choosing to prioritize

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Speaker 1: the voices and stories of people of color. Since then,

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Speaker 1: the show's host, Tiffany D. Cross, has been relentless in

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Speaker 1: her current efforts to tell the multi generational stories of

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Speaker 1: black women on her latest podcast, Across Generations. Tiffany is

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Speaker 1: a journalist, TV host, podcast host, author, and speaker. A

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Speaker 1: twenty twenty fellow of Harvard's Institute of Politics, she has

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Speaker 1: spent more than twenty years navigating politics, media, labor, all

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Speaker 1: communities of color, and the private sector. She harnessed her

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Speaker 1: decades of experience in the release of her first best

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Speaker 1: selling book, Say It Louder, Black Voters, White narratives, and

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Speaker 1: Saving our Democracy. During our conversation, we discuss what it

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Speaker 1: means to feel as if you have to constantly center

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Speaker 1: the white gays to be successful, how to hold space

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Speaker 1: for feelings of both grief and joy, and the importance

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Speaker 1: of multi generational mentorship for Black women of all ages.

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Speaker 1: If something resonates with you while enjoying our conversation, please

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Speaker 1: share with us on social media using the hashtag TBG

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Speaker 1: in session, or join us over in the sister Circle.

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Speaker 1: To talk more about the episode, You can join us

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Speaker 1: at community dot therapy for Blackgirls dot Com. Here's our conversation.

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Speaker 1: Thank you so much for joining us today, Tiffany.

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Speaker 3: Thank you for having me it.

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Speaker 1: Feels like this is a reunion because we were together

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Speaker 1: last year at a conference in Miami, the Accelerator Conferences,

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Speaker 1: to facilitate a conversation between you and your great friend

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Speaker 1: Angela Rye all about you know, what was going on

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Speaker 1: in your world. And so I love that we are

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Speaker 1: seeing you back on our screens and in our earbuds

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Speaker 1: with your new shows. And so I wonder if you

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Speaker 1: could talk a little bit about you have such an

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Speaker 1: extensive journalism background, what influenced you to do podcasting now?

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Speaker 1: And can you tell us a little bit about your

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Speaker 1: new shows, Native Land and across Generations.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, well I don't want to take over your podcast,

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Speaker 2: Doctor Joy. But but bro we get into all of that.

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Speaker 2: I just want to thank you for having me for

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Speaker 2: starters and congratulate you because when we were on stage

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Speaker 2: together last year, your book was coming out.

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Speaker 3: So congratulations on your book.

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Speaker 2: Thank you you referenced our girl group, So thank you

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Speaker 2: for the love and the shout out, and thank you

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Speaker 2: for doing such an amazing job on stage with Angela

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Speaker 2: and me.

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Speaker 3: And you're saying podcasts. So is this not a therapy session?

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Speaker 3: Because it's all therapy.

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Speaker 1: I thought it might feel like that in some places.

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Speaker 2: It's about to turn into one. Tartter girls about to

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Speaker 2: turn into one. So how did I get into podcasting.

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Speaker 2: I'll tell you I'm still very much a TV person,

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Speaker 2: and so both of these podcasts have a video component

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Speaker 2: to them. So I'll talk about Native Land first, because

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Speaker 2: that's how people know me through politics. Angela wanted to

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Speaker 2: do this podcast that focused on the political space because

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Speaker 2: there's such a need for it when you look across

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Speaker 2: the atmosphere and the marketplace, we still have this very

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Speaker 2: bad habit of centering white perspective, white voices, white thought,

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Speaker 2: and white comfort. And I think all of us who

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Speaker 2: are in this space who operated without fear, we did

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Speaker 2: not center that. And so I think we defined the

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Speaker 2: differences between black voices and black faces because there's a difference,

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Speaker 2: as you know, and that's no shade to the people

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Speaker 2: who are black faces and not black voices, because sometimes

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Speaker 2: that's what you're there to do.

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Speaker 3: You might be an expert.

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Speaker 2: On the law, and you don't necessarily show up as

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Speaker 2: a black person. You show up as an attorney first

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Speaker 2: and a black person second. For me, I show up

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Speaker 2: as a black person no matter what space I'm in,

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Speaker 2: no matter what I'm representing, and so for Native Land,

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Speaker 2: it's myself, Angela Rai and Andrew Gillum. And it feels

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Speaker 2: great to be able to have conversation with two people

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Speaker 2: who I hold near and dear.

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Speaker 3: There's a multi decade friendship already there.

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Speaker 2: We talk over each other all the time, we dissect politics,

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Speaker 2: we don't always have the same opinion. We argue, we beef,

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Speaker 2: we have the brawl all on camera, and after that

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Speaker 2: it's over. And so even though it's a podcast, I

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Speaker 2: very much look at it as like a television show,

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Speaker 2: and I think if we all had the bandwidth, or

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Speaker 2: if there was an outlet they were willing to pay us,

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Speaker 2: then we would probably turn this into like a five

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Speaker 2: day a week morning show, because there's nothing like it

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Speaker 2: that exists now.

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Speaker 3: That is for the political piece.

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Speaker 2: That's how I started in that podcast, because Angela called

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Speaker 2: me and said, let's do this. I also think, doctor Joy,

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Speaker 2: that we deserve a space that is not centered on

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Speaker 2: saving the white man's democracy. And I say the white

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Speaker 2: democracy because black folks built this country and black folks

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Speaker 2: uphold this democracy. But this democracy was certainly designed by

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Speaker 2: and for white people. We've adapted it adapted to it

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Speaker 2: and uphold it. But to me, I don't know how

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Speaker 2: you feel. I'm exhausted with it. Part of me is like,

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Speaker 2: y'all hell bent on giving the country to Trump, then.

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Speaker 3: Go for it.

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Speaker 2: Obviously, we'll show up and do everything we can to

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Speaker 2: preserve our sanity, our lives, and our livelihoods.

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Speaker 3: But it's just exhausting.

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Speaker 2: So I needed a space where I could show up

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Speaker 2: and not talk about politics, where I could just talk

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Speaker 2: to us, where I could just be in sisterhood, fellowship.

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Speaker 3: And community with people who look like me.

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Speaker 2: And I don't have to tell you when we come

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Speaker 2: together as black women, there is something magical that happens

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Speaker 2: at the conference you reference.

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Speaker 3: It was a see of beautiful, striking, highly accomplished black women.

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Speaker 2: If one person who does not look like us enters

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Speaker 2: the space, everyone is aware and everyone shifts a little bit.

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Speaker 2: When it's just us, we excel, we breathe, we relax,

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Speaker 2: And so that is the very space that brought across generations.

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Speaker 2: When my show was unceremoniously canceled abruptly at MSNBC, Will

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Speaker 2: Packer was one of the first people who reached out

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Speaker 2: to me and said, will pack our media would love

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Speaker 2: to be in business with Tiffany Cross and maybe much

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Speaker 2: to his regret now, but I was like, here's three

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Speaker 2: show treatments, will I'm ready to go. And so we

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Speaker 2: have been in business ever since Impressing the Gas and

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Speaker 2: there'll be other projects, but I'm most excited about the

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Speaker 2: cross generations Black Women's Center will success. And so I'm

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Speaker 2: grateful that he was willing to put capital behind an

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Speaker 2: idea and an amazing team that helps pull this show together.

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Speaker 2: Each week, it's an elder, a younger and me, So

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Speaker 2: someone old enough to be my mom or significantly older

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Speaker 2: than me, and someone younger to be my daughter or

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Speaker 2: significantly younger than me, and we come together to unpack

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Speaker 2: an issue. And it really is like therapy for black

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Speaker 2: girls in the sense that anytime I get to be

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Speaker 2: in community with my sisters, I feel seen heard and

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Speaker 2: I'm a little less clenched, you know, I can breathe

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Speaker 2: a little easier, and I just think, after all the

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Speaker 2: things that we've done for this country as black women,

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Speaker 2: we deserve that space too.

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Speaker 1: Oh. I love that. So this is a beautiful revelation

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Speaker 1: because when we were together last year, you mentioned that

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Speaker 1: something was on the horizon, but of course you weren't

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Speaker 1: quite ready to share that. So I love that this

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Speaker 1: is what we now know was on the other side

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Speaker 1: of that. And so I'm curious, because you have such

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Speaker 1: a beautiful and important background in political journalism that one

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Speaker 1: of your treatments was for this show that allowed you

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Speaker 1: to be very different. Right, Like you didn't say, Okay,

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Speaker 1: now I want to do something else that is the

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Speaker 1: Tiffany Cross Show talking about political things and other kinds

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Speaker 1: of important ideas, But you went to something that I

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Speaker 1: think is not very different but allows you to show

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Speaker 1: up in a very different place. I wonder can you

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Speaker 1: say more about, like why you wanted that to be

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Speaker 1: the first venture that you were doing with Will Sure.

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Speaker 2: You know, in an ideal world where white people don't

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Speaker 2: have so much control over the kind of content we

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Speaker 2: put out, I would combine.

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Speaker 3: Both of these states.

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Speaker 2: We have to be all things to all people all

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Speaker 2: the time, and so politics, it was my professional grooming,

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Speaker 2: is how I came up in this space. It matters

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Speaker 2: to me and not just our domestic policy, but I

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Speaker 2: think our foreign policy as well. Just how we show

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Speaker 2: up in this world I think is very relevant to

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Speaker 2: all of us. But like I said, doctor Joy, it's exhausting.

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Speaker 2: It is just exhausting. And so on the show that

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Speaker 2: I had on air, I would try to intersperse culture

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Speaker 2: and conversations that we were having amongst ourselves and our

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Speaker 2: group chats at brunch, at our book clubs, and so

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Speaker 2: having no space to combine both of these things, Like

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Speaker 2: I said, I was grateful to Will for just providing

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Speaker 2: a space to do that, because we get to be

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Speaker 2: multi layered, we get to be multifaceted. I get to

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Speaker 2: have depths and dimension to who I am as a woman,

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Speaker 2: as a Black woman, as a black woman in this country,

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Speaker 2: we bear the bruises and the beauty of our ancestry

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Speaker 2: and how that shows up in our everyday life, from

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Speaker 2: the ancestral trauma that we carry to how we try

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Speaker 2: to self repair on this journey home to self matters

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Speaker 2: so much in every aspect. And I've always tried to

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Speaker 2: be a very unfiltered person. You know, I don't know

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Speaker 2: how to pretend. You know, it's only one version of

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Speaker 2: Tivity Cross and either you're gonna see it or you ain't.

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Speaker 2: But if you meet me, it is just this one

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Speaker 2: version of me. And I wanted other people to know Hey,

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Speaker 2: if you feel down and sad, sometimes I do too.

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Speaker 2: If you wake up and your first thought is, oh, man,

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Speaker 2: I can't believe I ate that last night. I'm so

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Speaker 2: mad at myself, and your first thoughts about self are negative,

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Speaker 2: I want you to know I have those moments too.

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Speaker 2: I have those mornings too. And if you are surrounded

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Speaker 2: by people who are like, my mom is my best

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Speaker 2: friend and we're so close, but you've got a jack

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Speaker 2: that relationship with your mom, I want you to know

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Speaker 2: I do too. I wanted to create a space where

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Speaker 2: nobody had to show up as the Instagram version of themselves,

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Speaker 2: where no one had to be like the highlight reel

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Speaker 2: of their life, this filtered version of themselves.

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Speaker 3: I just didn't want that.

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Speaker 2: I came up with the idea doctor Joy because I

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Speaker 2: feel like every black woman has this experience.

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Speaker 3: But you'll correct me if you didn't.

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Speaker 2: When I was young, I sat at the kitchen table

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Speaker 2: with my grandmother and I was her sous chef essentially

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Speaker 2: because you know, she tell me, chopped these onions, dice

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Speaker 2: these peppers. She would show me the consistency of mac

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Speaker 2: and cheese before you put it in the oven, the

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Speaker 2: consistency of dressing, and I was supposed to look how

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Speaker 2: to corn bread, how you break it up with your hands,

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Speaker 2: and all that for dressing, and she was teaching me

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Speaker 2: so much.

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Speaker 3: I just absorbed her.

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Speaker 2: But what was happening at that time, I absorbed more

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Speaker 2: than her cooking. I absorbed her spirit. I absorbed what

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Speaker 2: she told me about life, because what was also happening

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Speaker 2: is she was telling me about life and love and

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Speaker 2: joy and pain and grief and child wearing and heartbreak

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Speaker 2: and how to harness these things and how to navigate

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Speaker 2: and manage life. And I'm so grateful to her. She

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Speaker 2: passed away in twenty fourteen. My spirit has been missing her.

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Speaker 2: It feels like a part of my I guess limb

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Speaker 2: that connected me to the earth.

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Speaker 3: And so I thought, I really wanted.

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Speaker 2: To create that kitchen spirit that I had sitting with her.

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Speaker 2: And I look at a lot of young women with

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Speaker 2: all the feelings. I see the moronic beauty of youth

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Speaker 2: that they hold, and I look at with envy, with curiosity,

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Speaker 2: with pity, with joy, with nostalgia, all the things, and

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Speaker 2: I think, man, they need some gladys Read in their life.

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Speaker 2: That's my grandmother's name, glad to read. And so that's

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Speaker 2: how I came up with the idea because young women

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Speaker 2: would say, Oh, Tiffany, I'd love for you to be

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Speaker 2: my mentor, or Tiffany, can I get time on your schedule?

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Speaker 3: And I'm thinking mentor, like't you like twenty eight? I'm

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Speaker 3: still trying to figure my shit out myself.

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Speaker 2: And then when you talk to a twenty eight year old,

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Speaker 2: it's like, oh, yeah, I guess I am, you know,

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Speaker 2: almost twenty years older than you, and I do have

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Speaker 2: wisdom to impart, but I still feel like I need

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Speaker 2: so much wisdom. And so I wanted to book in

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Speaker 2: myself with these two entities that I felt had something

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Speaker 2: to offer me, because I didn't want to create a

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Speaker 2: space where we're looking at the twenty something like get up.

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Speaker 3: My lawn kind of knowledge.

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Speaker 2: They have something to share too, they have something to

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Speaker 2: teach too, and with the elder, they have something to teach.

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Speaker 2: So it's really a conversation, not so much an interview,

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Speaker 2: but a conversation. And it's much like what I used

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Speaker 2: to have with my grandmother. I used to annoy my grandmother,

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Speaker 2: doctor Joy because I would ask her so many questions,

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Speaker 2: like Grandma, why did you leave Georgia, and how old

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Speaker 2: were you and Grandma? How old was Uncle Charles when

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Speaker 2: you moved here? And why did you and Grandpa picked

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Speaker 2: this house? And she would let me get like five

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Speaker 2: questions in before she said, ooh, chow okay, come over

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Speaker 2: here and keep dicing these onions and come snap these peas.

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Speaker 3: So it was just those times, and I really.

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Speaker 2: Go out of my way to try to create that.

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Speaker 2: I built it for you, I built it for us.

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Speaker 2: It's an invitation. It's not just an invitation, it's an

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Speaker 2: invocation into all that we hold, the stories we share,

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Speaker 2: to rest away our narrative from anybody who would dare

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Speaker 2: try to take it and just sit around this magical

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Speaker 2: space that we create. And it's hard to explain this.

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Speaker 2: This is why I'm happy to be in conversation with you.

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Speaker 2: It's hard to explain this to people who don't look

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Speaker 2: like us. You have to be of us to understand

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Speaker 2: it and what it means. Truly, it is like therapy

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Speaker 2: because I have had some very emotional episodes on that show,

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Speaker 2: and every time we record, I am committed to being

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Speaker 2: vulnerable and open in hopes that we can be a

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Speaker 2: little less filtered in our everyday lives.

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Speaker 1: I think that has definitely come through. But you recently

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Speaker 1: released an episode in honor I think of Mother's Day,

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Speaker 1: you know, the holiday that just passed, and talked about

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Speaker 1: a very difficult relationship that you've had with your mom,

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Speaker 1: And I think that there is often so much shame

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Speaker 1: and guilt around the relationships we have with our parents, right,

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Speaker 1: and so to be able to be a black woman

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Speaker 1: and share those things, I think it just creates space

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Speaker 1: for other people to see. Everybody doesn't have an Instagram

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Speaker 1: perfect kind of relationship, and you don't have to feel

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Speaker 1: bad about it, right, There's nothing that you did necessarily

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Speaker 1: that led to the relationship feeling that way.

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Speaker 2: That was one of our most emotionally raw episodes. I

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Speaker 2: went into the recordings thing I was not going to

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Speaker 2: tell the story, worry about coming home and thinking my

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Speaker 2: mom was gone, And then we got into it because

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Speaker 2: the elder was so transparent and raw with her story,

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Speaker 2: and I just felt, man, I owe this to the audience.

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Speaker 2: I was trying to strike a balance between not telling

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Speaker 2: my mother's story but telling my story out of respect

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Speaker 2: for my mother. She has her story to tell, yet

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Speaker 2: her story is part of my story and so I

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Speaker 2: only wanted to share my mother's role in my life

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Speaker 2: as it impacted who I am today. My mother still

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Speaker 2: I do not believe has heard this episode, and I

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Speaker 2: have not given her heads up about it because I

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Speaker 2: think it would be disruptive to our relationship.

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Speaker 3: And I have to.

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Speaker 2: Honor that my memories are not my mother's memories, and

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Speaker 2: I think some of these memories are just too painful

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Speaker 2: for her to revisit. But that was one that really

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Speaker 2: struck a chord with the audience because I think people

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Speaker 2: were surprised to know that about me, that I left

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Speaker 2: home at sixteen, and I tell my story. That is

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Speaker 2: the through line in all these episodes. I tell all

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Speaker 2: my business doctor joy, Hey, can I tell you I'm

321
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Speaker 2: curious your perspective of this as a mental health professional

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Speaker 2: because I talked about this in therapy. So I tell

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Speaker 2: this story and I'm very open about my life, my

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Speaker 2: dating life, my upbringing, everything. So after the Mother Special air,

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Speaker 2: there are people who I know and then they're strangers.

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Speaker 2: And so when hundreds of strangers have been messaging me,

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Speaker 2: dming me, leaving public comments, coming up to me and saying, oh,

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Speaker 2: I've really connected with this episode and thank you, and

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Speaker 2: I feel grateful to them, like, thank you so much.

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Speaker 3: Then there are people who.

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Speaker 2: I know but I don't know know, like they're like

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Speaker 2: associate people I've known, just seen from around the way,

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Speaker 2: you know, like we've been professional colleagues, and when they

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Speaker 2: say something it makes me so uncomfortable.

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Speaker 3: I don't know why that is, but I.

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Speaker 2: Feel like you a little out of pocket talking to

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Speaker 2: me about my business and what do you mean, what

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Speaker 2: do you think you know about me and my mind?

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Speaker 3: Don't talk to me about my but I'm the one

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Speaker 3: who put it out there.

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Speaker 2: But a part of me feels like, do you think

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Speaker 2: you have some sort of insight into my life now?

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Speaker 2: And now you're coming up to me almost with pity talking.

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Speaker 2: I just don't like it, And so I'm trying to

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Speaker 2: unpack that and why I feel that way.

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Speaker 3: Because strangers, I'm like, yes, we have commonality and thank

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Speaker 3: you for sharing your story.

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Speaker 2: But people who are not like my girls girls, but

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Speaker 2: I just know you coming up for sending me messages

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Speaker 2: like oh.

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Speaker 3: My god, I had no idea and I'm thinking about you.

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Speaker 3: I am outright offended by it. So I don't even know.

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Speaker 3: I don't know why that is, but it's how I feel.

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Speaker 1: So a couple of thoughts. So there is something that

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Speaker 1: is called the vulnerability hangover. So after you have shared

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Speaker 1: something pretty public and very vulnerable, there is this sense of,

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Speaker 1: oh my gosh, now I'm in front of a crowd

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Speaker 1: naked kind of experience and it sounds like maybe some

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Speaker 1: of that is what you were talking about, but it

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Speaker 1: also feels like there's this like judgment criticism kind of

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Speaker 1: piece that feels like it is not coming from like

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Speaker 1: a we are the same, we are shared. It feels

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Speaker 1: like now they are creating a story about who you

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Speaker 1: in your life based on something that you shared.

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Speaker 2: Yes, that's I think that is the part I don't like.

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Speaker 2: There is a little bit of a vulnerability hangover, but

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Speaker 2: it's like I've triumph. I'm telling a story about how

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Speaker 2: I became this woman when I talk about my childhood,

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Speaker 2: and so when people are like, oh, I'm praying for you,

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Speaker 2: and I don't know, I just feel like, ain't nobody

371
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Speaker 2: asking for your pity. This is my testimony and thank you.

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Speaker 2: I'm doing just fine. Thank you, even though on some

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Speaker 2: days I'm not doing just fine.

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Speaker 3: But it's not solely because of that. But I feel

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Speaker 3: this way in therapy. Sometimes you know it's my therapist,

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Speaker 3: and Jo'll ask like, what's happening this week and what's

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Speaker 3: going on and how are you?

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Speaker 2: And sometimes I want to say, what's going on with you?

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Speaker 2: I'm in here telling about my business?

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Speaker 3: What's your store? Are you seeing somebody like you? I

381
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Speaker 3: don't know anything about you?

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Speaker 1: Yes, So I love that you are sharing that. Tiffany,

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Speaker 1: thank you so much for that, because I think that

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Speaker 1: even that is a very common experience, right, and it's

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Speaker 1: really hard, I think because that is a part of

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Speaker 1: what makes therapy safe for you, is that you're not

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Speaker 1: coming to therapy to hear about me and what's going

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Speaker 1: on in my life, like they know that I am

389
00:19:00,280 --> 00:19:02,800
Speaker 1: space for you. But it is awkward, right, because in

390
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Speaker 1: no other relationship do you share so vulnerably with somebody

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Speaker 1: and then you don't know anything about them. So I

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Speaker 1: wonder if you have told your therapist that, because that

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Speaker 1: could be a beautiful question or beautiful conversation to open

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Speaker 1: up that you have that feeling.

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Speaker 2: Sometimes I do tell her that because when I come in,

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Speaker 2: she'll say how are you, And my instinct is to say,

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Speaker 2: however I am, but then to retort, well, how are you?

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Speaker 2: And I stop myself because one, I know she won't

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Speaker 2: answer in a real way, but also that's not while

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Speaker 2: we're there. So I have shared that with her, and

401
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Speaker 2: I will tell you this. My therapist is a white woman.

402
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Speaker 2: This sounds terrible because I support black doctors. Every other

403
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Speaker 2: doctor I.

404
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Speaker 3: Have is black.

405
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Speaker 2: But I will tell you it goes back to the

406
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Speaker 2: vulnerability hangover and the connectivity. If you are a black therapist,

407
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Speaker 2: you're dope. If I'm coming to see you, you must

408
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Speaker 2: be highly recommended.

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Speaker 3: You're dope.

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Speaker 2: I don't want to see my therapist on the vineyard

411
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Speaker 2: in August. I don't want to run into you at

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Speaker 2: the Alvin Aley Gala. I don't want the jack and

413
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Speaker 2: jail like, oh, you go to my friends and I

414
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Speaker 2: don't like it, and I'm just like, black women have

415
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Speaker 2: enough problem. What does white woman hear about my problems?

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Speaker 2: We got enough problems on our own. And I don't

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Speaker 2: hold anything back. I tell her about whiteness and how

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Speaker 2: irritated I am and what's happening. And a lot of

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Speaker 2: my friends go to her as well, so she'll bring

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Speaker 2: it up and say, you know, this is also probably

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Speaker 2: hard for you as a black woman, and yeah, but

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Speaker 2: I do so a little guilty that I don't go

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Speaker 2: see a black woman. But I wanted some familiarity as

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Speaker 2: a woman, but I wanted some disconnect from my world.

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Speaker 1: That makes a lot of sense, and I think that

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Speaker 1: that's important. I really appreciate you sharing that, because I

427
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Speaker 1: do think you know enough about yourself to know this

428
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Speaker 1: won't feel comfortable for me if I then run into

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Speaker 1: her at a gala, right, and so I feel like

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Speaker 1: I need a little bit of separation. And so I

431
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Speaker 1: that is perfectly fine for you to pick the place

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Speaker 1: where you feel like you will be most psychologically safe.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that's what I mean, Doctor Joey.

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Speaker 2: If you were my therapist, I would be embarrassed running

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Speaker 2: into you at the conference there, you know, or if

436
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Speaker 2: I'm going out with somebody, you know, it's like, oh,

437
00:20:59,080 --> 00:21:03,200
Speaker 2: she's dating him, I know, and I'm like, oh, you know, yeah,

438
00:21:03,400 --> 00:21:04,520
Speaker 2: my men's all of it, I know.

439
00:21:04,600 --> 00:21:06,040
Speaker 3: And I think that's very real.

440
00:21:06,200 --> 00:21:08,040
Speaker 1: Like I think you talked about this on a previous

441
00:21:08,080 --> 00:21:10,760
Speaker 1: episode with my friends and colleagues, doctor Abrams and doctor

442
00:21:10,800 --> 00:21:13,840
Speaker 1: beck with that sometimes black women say they want a

443
00:21:13,840 --> 00:21:17,280
Speaker 1: black women therapist, but then it is hard, not necessarily

444
00:21:17,280 --> 00:21:19,320
Speaker 1: for the running into you in public peace. But there

445
00:21:19,400 --> 00:21:22,320
Speaker 1: is something I think about, like how we are socialized

446
00:21:22,400 --> 00:21:25,159
Speaker 1: about falling apart in front of somebody else who seems

447
00:21:25,160 --> 00:21:27,679
Speaker 1: like they have it all together right, and so that

448
00:21:27,800 --> 00:21:30,040
Speaker 1: makes it difficult for you to do your work sometimes.

449
00:21:30,080 --> 00:21:31,920
Speaker 1: And so you know, if you have found a great

450
00:21:31,960 --> 00:21:34,560
Speaker 1: therapist who's not a black woman, I think that that's great,

451
00:21:34,600 --> 00:21:37,480
Speaker 1: and I do think other people are okay to consider that, right, Like,

452
00:21:37,520 --> 00:21:40,000
Speaker 1: you have to think about what will make you feel

453
00:21:40,040 --> 00:21:43,080
Speaker 1: most safe to share, and sometimes that means a package

454
00:21:43,119 --> 00:21:44,080
Speaker 1: that does not look like you.

455
00:21:44,720 --> 00:21:45,600
Speaker 3: I mean, we're getting there.

456
00:21:45,600 --> 00:21:47,280
Speaker 2: I've been going to her for years, and she told

457
00:21:47,280 --> 00:21:49,480
Speaker 2: me the other day, she says, she doesn't feel like

458
00:21:49,520 --> 00:21:53,120
Speaker 2: we've gotten on a deep layer. And the same way

459
00:21:53,160 --> 00:21:55,879
Speaker 2: I'm talking to you. I'm very open, doctor Joy. I mean,

460
00:21:55,920 --> 00:21:58,320
Speaker 2: I share everything. And so I asked her, I'm like,

461
00:21:58,359 --> 00:21:59,960
Speaker 2: I don't understand, like how much deeper I can go?

462
00:22:00,119 --> 00:22:01,760
Speaker 2: Like what is it that you want to know from

463
00:22:01,800 --> 00:22:04,760
Speaker 2: me that I'm not sharing? And she said, you'll fill

464
00:22:04,840 --> 00:22:08,199
Speaker 2: up space with a lot of elegant words, and you'll

465
00:22:08,520 --> 00:22:11,119
Speaker 2: intellectualize something and tell me what's happening and tell me

466
00:22:11,160 --> 00:22:14,560
Speaker 2: how you feel, but you're not really talking about yourself,

467
00:22:15,480 --> 00:22:18,639
Speaker 2: and I feel like I do that on across generations

468
00:22:18,640 --> 00:22:21,280
Speaker 2: as well, Like I'm saying, this is what happened to me,

469
00:22:22,080 --> 00:22:23,119
Speaker 2: this is how I felt.

470
00:22:23,240 --> 00:22:25,520
Speaker 3: How do you guys feel? You know? And it's like

471
00:22:25,600 --> 00:22:27,800
Speaker 3: that is as open and vulnerable as I know how

472
00:22:27,800 --> 00:22:28,000
Speaker 3: to be.

473
00:22:28,160 --> 00:22:31,640
Speaker 2: But through this podcast, through this work, through my own

474
00:22:31,720 --> 00:22:35,600
Speaker 2: journey home to self, I'm working on taking away those

475
00:22:35,640 --> 00:22:38,920
Speaker 2: bricks and really breaking down. But it is a journey,

476
00:22:39,000 --> 00:22:41,600
Speaker 2: like I still don't quite know what she means, but

477
00:22:41,720 --> 00:22:44,480
Speaker 2: it is quite a journey. So I truly I was

478
00:22:44,520 --> 00:22:47,199
Speaker 2: really looking forward. I knew this date that we were recording,

479
00:22:47,200 --> 00:22:49,040
Speaker 2: I had on my calendar and I was like, doctor Joy,

480
00:22:49,080 --> 00:22:50,840
Speaker 2: don't know, but it's about to be therapy.

481
00:22:51,440 --> 00:22:53,320
Speaker 3: I had so much I want to talk about with

482
00:22:53,359 --> 00:22:54,000
Speaker 3: doctor Joy.

483
00:22:54,840 --> 00:22:56,720
Speaker 1: I love that. I love that, And that is not

484
00:22:56,800 --> 00:22:59,960
Speaker 1: an uncommon refrain, I think to hear about black waves

485
00:23:00,200 --> 00:23:02,440
Speaker 1: in therapy because of so much of like how we've

486
00:23:02,480 --> 00:23:04,639
Speaker 1: been socialized and like having to show up and do

487
00:23:04,760 --> 00:23:07,160
Speaker 1: twice as good to get have as much like we

488
00:23:07,200 --> 00:23:09,960
Speaker 1: are really good and skilled sometimes at talking about our

489
00:23:10,000 --> 00:23:13,240
Speaker 1: feelings but not feeling our feelings, which it sounds like

490
00:23:13,600 --> 00:23:15,639
Speaker 1: the therapist is talking with you about.

491
00:23:15,920 --> 00:23:18,680
Speaker 2: Yes, that literally were her words, like, you talk about

492
00:23:18,680 --> 00:23:21,040
Speaker 2: your feels, but you haven't allowed yourself to feel your feelings.

493
00:23:21,040 --> 00:23:24,040
Speaker 3: And it's like, I don't know what else I can do.

494
00:23:24,640 --> 00:23:28,320
Speaker 2: And so what I have done is I've stopped hanging

495
00:23:28,320 --> 00:23:31,800
Speaker 2: out as much. If I'm feeling down, I don't immediately

496
00:23:31,800 --> 00:23:33,440
Speaker 2: call somebody and say, hey, do you want to grab

497
00:23:33,480 --> 00:23:34,959
Speaker 2: cocto go for a walk or whatever.

498
00:23:35,200 --> 00:23:36,720
Speaker 3: I just try to sit in my feelings.

499
00:23:36,720 --> 00:23:38,119
Speaker 2: But then another part of me is like, why am

500
00:23:38,119 --> 00:23:40,280
Speaker 2: I making myself suffer through this? I would feel better

501
00:23:40,280 --> 00:23:42,320
Speaker 2: if I would just go see somebody and hang out.

502
00:23:42,520 --> 00:23:45,520
Speaker 2: So I'm trying to strike the balance there. And then

503
00:23:45,640 --> 00:23:50,400
Speaker 2: also when it comes to like talking about my feelings,

504
00:23:50,880 --> 00:23:51,280
Speaker 2: trying to.

505
00:23:51,200 --> 00:23:53,040
Speaker 3: Be more honest with myself.

506
00:23:53,160 --> 00:23:55,120
Speaker 2: And so when you ask about even how I get

507
00:23:55,119 --> 00:23:57,840
Speaker 2: in the podcast space, I do enjoy this work. I

508
00:23:57,840 --> 00:24:00,600
Speaker 2: feel so blessed and privileged to do it. I'm also

509
00:24:01,119 --> 00:24:04,359
Speaker 2: honestly still grieving the loss of my show. And it

510
00:24:04,400 --> 00:24:06,760
Speaker 2: was a great piece in Vanity Fair by Brooke Baldwin,

511
00:24:07,240 --> 00:24:09,560
Speaker 2: who I enjoyed the piece because she was an anchor

512
00:24:09,600 --> 00:24:11,360
Speaker 2: at CNN, and she said, look, I was a privileged

513
00:24:11,400 --> 00:24:13,440
Speaker 2: white woman and I tried to use my platform, which

514
00:24:13,440 --> 00:24:15,480
Speaker 2: I believe she did, like she used her platform in

515
00:24:15,480 --> 00:24:18,080
Speaker 2: a beautiful way, and she said it was three years

516
00:24:18,160 --> 00:24:21,960
Speaker 2: later and she was still grieving the loss of her show,

517
00:24:22,160 --> 00:24:25,760
Speaker 2: and I thought, yes, I definitely still feel that way.

518
00:24:26,160 --> 00:24:30,400
Speaker 2: And at the center of this is committing the cardinal

519
00:24:30,560 --> 00:24:35,240
Speaker 2: sin of making white folks uncomfortable, and so in these

520
00:24:35,280 --> 00:24:38,359
Speaker 2: other spaces, it's like, yes, I have freedom to be,

521
00:24:38,680 --> 00:24:41,360
Speaker 2: but as you well know, it costs money to do podcasts,

522
00:24:41,840 --> 00:24:44,960
Speaker 2: Like advertisers have to feel comfortable with you. It doesn't

523
00:24:44,960 --> 00:24:49,480
Speaker 2: seem like there's any escape of censuring white people's comfort,

524
00:24:49,760 --> 00:24:52,440
Speaker 2: and it's just an example of whiteness can literally make

525
00:24:52,520 --> 00:24:54,720
Speaker 2: me sick, because that's the stress I carry with me

526
00:24:54,760 --> 00:24:57,679
Speaker 2: every day. And it's either I'm going to be filtered

527
00:24:58,320 --> 00:25:00,760
Speaker 2: and invite people to be comfortab me, or I'm going

528
00:25:00,840 --> 00:25:03,399
Speaker 2: to be unfiltered and always have a place for my

529
00:25:03,480 --> 00:25:06,480
Speaker 2: community within me and they will always have a place

530
00:25:06,640 --> 00:25:09,320
Speaker 2: for me in the community. I've always chosen the latter,

531
00:25:09,840 --> 00:25:12,720
Speaker 2: Like there is nothing that can make me not speak

532
00:25:12,760 --> 00:25:15,760
Speaker 2: a truth or not speak in a way where people

533
00:25:15,760 --> 00:25:18,280
Speaker 2: don't see themselves reflected, Like my goal was never to

534
00:25:18,320 --> 00:25:22,560
Speaker 2: host the Today's Show, My goal was for everybody listening,

535
00:25:22,560 --> 00:25:26,280
Speaker 2: for you to see yourself on television, not just how

536
00:25:26,320 --> 00:25:28,680
Speaker 2: you look, but how you talked, how you dressed, how

537
00:25:28,720 --> 00:25:32,840
Speaker 2: you spoke, how you got down whatever, like you could

538
00:25:32,880 --> 00:25:34,800
Speaker 2: see me, or you could see one of my guests,

539
00:25:35,400 --> 00:25:38,240
Speaker 2: including doctor Joy somebody like that. And so these are

540
00:25:38,280 --> 00:25:41,520
Speaker 2: all the things that I'm like struggling with and working

541
00:25:41,560 --> 00:25:42,320
Speaker 2: my way through.

542
00:25:42,920 --> 00:25:44,800
Speaker 3: And I am doing that on.

543
00:25:44,680 --> 00:25:48,080
Speaker 2: Some level on the podcast, across generations, but also just

544
00:25:48,160 --> 00:25:51,920
Speaker 2: in my own private time, trying to unpack all these

545
00:25:52,359 --> 00:25:55,720
Speaker 2: forty five years of life that have gotten me right here.

546
00:25:58,720 --> 00:26:02,119
Speaker 1: More from our conversation to the break, but first a

547
00:26:02,200 --> 00:26:05,000
Speaker 1: quick snippet of what's coming up next week on TBG.

548
00:26:07,000 --> 00:26:10,639
Speaker 1: So the theme of the evening is healing in real time.

549
00:26:11,119 --> 00:26:13,159
Speaker 1: So I would love to hear We'll start with you,

550
00:26:13,240 --> 00:26:15,640
Speaker 1: doctor Beck with what does that mean when you hear

551
00:26:15,680 --> 00:26:17,959
Speaker 1: that phrase? What comes to mind for you? Healing in

552
00:26:17,960 --> 00:26:18,480
Speaker 1: real time?

553
00:26:18,920 --> 00:26:24,159
Speaker 4: It's now, it's real, it's authenticity, and it is community.

554
00:26:24,600 --> 00:26:27,959
Speaker 4: It is community, it is what is present in this moment.

555
00:26:28,400 --> 00:26:30,760
Speaker 4: So of course we talk about a sisterhood and healing

556
00:26:31,119 --> 00:26:33,520
Speaker 4: the power of sisterhood to heal, but it's right now,

557
00:26:33,720 --> 00:26:36,880
Speaker 4: it's not waiting till tomorrow. There's authenticity, there's some self

558
00:26:36,920 --> 00:26:38,680
Speaker 4: awareness there in terms.

559
00:26:38,520 --> 00:26:40,639
Speaker 1: Of what is it that you're going through, what is

560
00:26:40,680 --> 00:26:40,960
Speaker 1: it that.

561
00:26:40,920 --> 00:26:43,119
Speaker 4: You're dealing with, And it's bringing that thing to the

562
00:26:43,160 --> 00:26:46,840
Speaker 4: forefront right now, facing it and getting through it.

563
00:27:01,680 --> 00:27:03,639
Speaker 1: So I want to hold space for the grief that

564
00:27:03,720 --> 00:27:06,800
Speaker 1: you are talking about still experiencing. And I feel like

565
00:27:06,800 --> 00:27:10,040
Speaker 1: we've alluded to the MSNBC show, but I definitely want

566
00:27:10,040 --> 00:27:12,760
Speaker 1: to give you an opportunity to share. I know you've

567
00:27:12,800 --> 00:27:16,760
Speaker 1: done some extensively on Native Land Pod for sure, to

568
00:27:16,880 --> 00:27:19,760
Speaker 1: kind of share what happened because you did so beautifully

569
00:27:19,800 --> 00:27:22,199
Speaker 1: hold space for so many of us to show up

570
00:27:22,240 --> 00:27:25,040
Speaker 1: as ourselves and like have our first opportunity to do

571
00:27:25,080 --> 00:27:28,359
Speaker 1: live TV, and like, I think you very intentionally built

572
00:27:28,359 --> 00:27:31,919
Speaker 1: this space where we could come get relevant, credible information

573
00:27:32,040 --> 00:27:35,000
Speaker 1: but also from people who looked and sounded like us.

574
00:27:35,200 --> 00:27:37,480
Speaker 1: So I want you to note that you did do that,

575
00:27:37,960 --> 00:27:39,840
Speaker 1: and I think a lot of us are aggrieving with

576
00:27:39,920 --> 00:27:43,959
Speaker 1: you that you were unceremoniously pulled from that show at

577
00:27:44,000 --> 00:27:45,960
Speaker 1: a time when it really felt like we needed a

578
00:27:46,080 --> 00:27:49,040
Speaker 1: voice like yours. So if you would share what happened

579
00:27:49,040 --> 00:27:51,879
Speaker 1: there and how are you making sense? Of what has

580
00:27:52,000 --> 00:27:55,200
Speaker 1: now become your pivot into these different spaces.

581
00:27:55,720 --> 00:27:59,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, thank you for that. Well, what happened with my show?

582
00:27:59,560 --> 00:28:01,600
Speaker 2: No one ever gave me a reason why my show

583
00:28:01,720 --> 00:28:05,000
Speaker 2: was being canceled. What was happening in the weeks leading

584
00:28:05,080 --> 00:28:08,960
Speaker 2: up to them canceling my show? Tucker Carlson started making

585
00:28:08,960 --> 00:28:11,000
Speaker 2: me a character on his show and said I was

586
00:28:11,000 --> 00:28:13,920
Speaker 2: trying to start a race war and basically started playing

587
00:28:13,960 --> 00:28:16,639
Speaker 2: all these clips. Anytime I said anything white, he would,

588
00:28:16,760 --> 00:28:19,359
Speaker 2: you know, play it. He compared what I was saying

589
00:28:19,400 --> 00:28:22,199
Speaker 2: to what happened in Rwanda, because you know, Tucker Carlson

590
00:28:22,280 --> 00:28:24,760
Speaker 2: so so thoughtful and cares so much about the people

591
00:28:24,760 --> 00:28:25,440
Speaker 2: in Rwanda.

592
00:28:25,920 --> 00:28:27,960
Speaker 3: That was what he uses his example of me trying

593
00:28:27,960 --> 00:28:31,680
Speaker 3: to start a race war. And I did not respond.

594
00:28:31,680 --> 00:28:34,639
Speaker 2: But after that I was flooded with all kind of

595
00:28:34,960 --> 00:28:40,080
Speaker 2: hateful comments and rhetoric, just awful things from his followers.

596
00:28:40,120 --> 00:28:43,800
Speaker 2: At that point, the network said nothing to me, nothing

597
00:28:43,920 --> 00:28:47,960
Speaker 2: about it. They didn't put out any statement, they didn't

598
00:28:47,960 --> 00:28:50,720
Speaker 2: come talk to me. The only thing I heard was

599
00:28:50,760 --> 00:28:54,760
Speaker 2: a directive that I was not to respond to Tucker Carlson.

600
00:28:54,800 --> 00:28:56,720
Speaker 2: I couldn't play a clip of him on my show.

601
00:28:56,840 --> 00:28:59,760
Speaker 2: I couldn't reference his name on my show as though

602
00:28:59,760 --> 00:29:02,960
Speaker 2: he were the aggrieved party. What was happening before that,

603
00:29:03,280 --> 00:29:06,600
Speaker 2: making Kelly would say things about me, and I would

604
00:29:06,640 --> 00:29:09,120
Speaker 2: respond in my way. I wasn't making them the center

605
00:29:09,120 --> 00:29:11,520
Speaker 2: of the show, but we have a way of responding,

606
00:29:12,080 --> 00:29:15,240
Speaker 2: so I'd respond to her bill O'Reilly. Like all the

607
00:29:15,600 --> 00:29:20,880
Speaker 2: conservative right wing zealots were making these comments. And in

608
00:29:20,920 --> 00:29:25,479
Speaker 2: addition to being under attack, I was true to my mission,

609
00:29:25,560 --> 00:29:28,600
Speaker 2: and my mission in life was to live in service

610
00:29:28,640 --> 00:29:30,920
Speaker 2: to black folks. It didn't matter where I was doing

611
00:29:30,960 --> 00:29:33,320
Speaker 2: this or what that looked like, as long as I

612
00:29:33,360 --> 00:29:37,600
Speaker 2: was feeding that mission. And in doing that, I wanted

613
00:29:37,640 --> 00:29:40,680
Speaker 2: to create liberty and equality for all people of color,

614
00:29:41,120 --> 00:29:44,320
Speaker 2: including white folks. I think when everybody wins, white folks

615
00:29:44,360 --> 00:29:47,960
Speaker 2: win too. And so my show was not a black show.

616
00:29:48,440 --> 00:29:50,480
Speaker 2: It was just a show that centered the voices and

617
00:29:50,520 --> 00:29:52,320
Speaker 2: perspectives of people of color. So if we were going

618
00:29:52,360 --> 00:29:55,520
Speaker 2: to talk about Ukraine, find me the people of color

619
00:29:55,600 --> 00:29:58,680
Speaker 2: talking about Ukraine. If we were going to talk about

620
00:29:58,720 --> 00:30:01,880
Speaker 2: a foreign policy issue, guess what, it's a whole lot.

621
00:30:01,920 --> 00:30:03,840
Speaker 2: I will search the corners of the Internet and find

622
00:30:03,840 --> 00:30:06,000
Speaker 2: people of color who can talk about this. And so

623
00:30:06,080 --> 00:30:09,440
Speaker 2: We centered voices from the API community, the Latino community,

624
00:30:09,480 --> 00:30:12,480
Speaker 2: Indigenous community, and of course the Black community. And the

625
00:30:12,560 --> 00:30:15,160
Speaker 2: goal was I wanted my colleagues to steal my guests.

626
00:30:15,200 --> 00:30:18,680
Speaker 2: I wanted to see them on other platforms. But every

627
00:30:18,800 --> 00:30:22,160
Speaker 2: week with the higher ups at the network, it was

628
00:30:22,240 --> 00:30:23,480
Speaker 2: a fight about what.

629
00:30:23,440 --> 00:30:24,520
Speaker 3: I wanted to talk about.

630
00:30:24,680 --> 00:30:27,720
Speaker 2: The cable news industry is obsessed with talking about Donald

631
00:30:27,720 --> 00:30:30,080
Speaker 2: Trump all the time, and yes, he's an existential threat

632
00:30:30,120 --> 00:30:32,280
Speaker 2: to the country, and yes, I get that's a big deal,

633
00:30:32,560 --> 00:30:34,680
Speaker 2: but again, we are multi layered and we ought to

634
00:30:34,680 --> 00:30:37,240
Speaker 2: be able to be our full selves and talk about

635
00:30:37,360 --> 00:30:40,800
Speaker 2: more than just this unhinged person. Or they wanted me

636
00:30:40,840 --> 00:30:43,480
Speaker 2: to cover some minutia that happened on Capitol Hill that

637
00:30:43,520 --> 00:30:46,240
Speaker 2: had been talked about at nauseum all week. They wanted

638
00:30:46,240 --> 00:30:49,360
Speaker 2: me to pull from the five or six stories of

639
00:30:49,440 --> 00:30:52,160
Speaker 2: the echo Chamber, and I was disrupting that. And it

640
00:30:52,200 --> 00:30:55,000
Speaker 2: was really odd to me why they were so focused

641
00:30:55,000 --> 00:30:57,520
Speaker 2: on my show, because we were averaging four point six

642
00:30:57,560 --> 00:31:00,960
Speaker 2: million viewers a month. We were the highest show across

643
00:31:01,040 --> 00:31:04,400
Speaker 2: all the weekend consistently. We were getting more ratings than

644
00:31:04,480 --> 00:31:06,960
Speaker 2: Joe Scarborough. So why are you so concerned about what

645
00:31:07,000 --> 00:31:09,040
Speaker 2: I'm doing over here because it looks like these other

646
00:31:09,080 --> 00:31:12,280
Speaker 2: shows can use your attention. And it was just debilitating.

647
00:31:12,680 --> 00:31:15,960
Speaker 2: And I think sometimes, you know, you start doing this

648
00:31:16,000 --> 00:31:18,040
Speaker 2: fight so long and it's like, after, wow, you got

649
00:31:18,040 --> 00:31:18,440
Speaker 2: a question?

650
00:31:18,480 --> 00:31:19,160
Speaker 3: Am I crazy?

651
00:31:19,240 --> 00:31:21,240
Speaker 2: Am I the crazy person? Because it seems to me

652
00:31:21,320 --> 00:31:24,400
Speaker 2: what I'm doing is working. We don't have a ratings problem.

653
00:31:24,720 --> 00:31:28,480
Speaker 2: I used to walk through pregentrified neighborhoods. Dudes on the

654
00:31:28,480 --> 00:31:31,959
Speaker 2: block were like, yo, Tiffany, cross the streets are with you,

655
00:31:32,080 --> 00:31:34,840
Speaker 2: we support you, we love what you're doing. And that

656
00:31:34,920 --> 00:31:39,160
Speaker 2: didn't matter to the network. They still centered white audiences.

657
00:31:39,240 --> 00:31:41,400
Speaker 2: Even it's like, okay, so you bring in four points

658
00:31:41,400 --> 00:31:45,360
Speaker 2: six million people, but not enough middle of the town

659
00:31:45,520 --> 00:31:48,120
Speaker 2: white people. And I remember they talked to me one

660
00:31:48,160 --> 00:31:50,840
Speaker 2: time and they said, you need to think about folks

661
00:31:50,840 --> 00:31:52,080
Speaker 2: in those flyover states.

662
00:31:52,240 --> 00:31:53,960
Speaker 3: Or it was always somebody's parents.

663
00:31:53,960 --> 00:31:56,760
Speaker 2: Well, my mom lives in Iowa and she's not bad

664
00:31:56,880 --> 00:31:58,640
Speaker 2: or my mom, and it's like, okay, nobody talking about

665
00:31:58,640 --> 00:32:01,720
Speaker 2: your mama. I'm talking about how what we face every day.

666
00:32:02,040 --> 00:32:04,840
Speaker 2: And so when they said that focusing on the flyover states,

667
00:32:04,880 --> 00:32:07,760
Speaker 2: I ended up doing a whole essay about focusing over

668
00:32:07,840 --> 00:32:10,200
Speaker 2: flyover states, and I'm like, yes, guys, we're talking to

669
00:32:10,240 --> 00:32:14,720
Speaker 2: people in Cleveland and Wisconsin and Detroit because guess what

670
00:32:14,880 --> 00:32:17,280
Speaker 2: those are flyover states too. And I dared them to

671
00:32:17,320 --> 00:32:19,800
Speaker 2: say something about it, because what they weren't saying is

672
00:32:19,880 --> 00:32:22,120
Speaker 2: white people. So I was like, what are the blackest

673
00:32:22,160 --> 00:32:24,960
Speaker 2: cities and all these flyover states that they're talking about.

674
00:32:25,360 --> 00:32:26,520
Speaker 3: Those folks matter too.

675
00:32:26,760 --> 00:32:29,760
Speaker 2: They matter as voters, they matter as none voters, they

676
00:32:29,800 --> 00:32:33,760
Speaker 2: matter as people, they matter as viewers. They matter because

677
00:32:33,800 --> 00:32:36,719
Speaker 2: we all exist here, is sharing this space here, and

678
00:32:36,760 --> 00:32:39,600
Speaker 2: so it was definitely getting tense around there. I felt

679
00:32:39,600 --> 00:32:42,560
Speaker 2: like the troublemaker. I felt unwelcome. I had consistently felt

680
00:32:42,600 --> 00:32:46,280
Speaker 2: unwelcoming newsrooms, and so I got a call one day

681
00:32:46,440 --> 00:32:48,640
Speaker 2: out the blue, two days before my show was supposed

682
00:32:48,680 --> 00:32:48,960
Speaker 2: to air.

683
00:32:49,240 --> 00:32:51,000
Speaker 3: It was one week before midterms.

684
00:32:51,000 --> 00:32:54,040
Speaker 2: We had an exclusive interviews slated with Stacy Abrams, who

685
00:32:54,080 --> 00:32:56,160
Speaker 2: was running for governor, who asked to come on my

686
00:32:56,200 --> 00:32:59,400
Speaker 2: show specifically, and it was the president of the network.

687
00:32:59,440 --> 00:33:02,760
Speaker 2: Also a blacklack woman, a black face, not a black voice,

688
00:33:02,880 --> 00:33:05,280
Speaker 2: but she went to Hampton, you know, but still was

689
00:33:05,320 --> 00:33:07,680
Speaker 2: there to do a very different thing than I was.

690
00:33:08,240 --> 00:33:10,920
Speaker 2: And I try to consider her with grace as well,

691
00:33:11,200 --> 00:33:13,440
Speaker 2: because Andrew gave me because he's like, you can't expect

692
00:33:13,440 --> 00:33:16,040
Speaker 2: the hyaena to act like a lion, and she knew

693
00:33:16,080 --> 00:33:17,520
Speaker 2: how to be a hyena. She didn't know how to

694
00:33:17,560 --> 00:33:20,880
Speaker 2: be a lion with her power and decided to cancel

695
00:33:21,040 --> 00:33:25,160
Speaker 2: my show, and it was devastating, not just for me,

696
00:33:25,440 --> 00:33:27,760
Speaker 2: but to all the communities. That is probably the most

697
00:33:27,760 --> 00:33:29,920
Speaker 2: heartbreaking of it all. When people still come up to

698
00:33:29,960 --> 00:33:32,600
Speaker 2: me and they're like, there's no place else that picked

699
00:33:32,640 --> 00:33:35,520
Speaker 2: up that mantle to talk about indigenous issues. There's no

700
00:33:35,520 --> 00:33:38,720
Speaker 2: one else that centers API voices in the same way.

701
00:33:39,080 --> 00:33:41,520
Speaker 2: There are people who try, but it's like, we will

702
00:33:41,520 --> 00:33:44,720
Speaker 2: do it in the softest way to make audiences comfortable.

703
00:33:44,720 --> 00:33:46,520
Speaker 2: And that's why you need someone like me to make

704
00:33:46,520 --> 00:33:49,800
Speaker 2: an example of, Like let me grab your head, Negress

705
00:33:50,240 --> 00:33:52,480
Speaker 2: and put her head on a spike, so everybody else

706
00:33:52,520 --> 00:33:55,360
Speaker 2: around here know how to act. And so I just

707
00:33:55,360 --> 00:33:57,400
Speaker 2: feel like, if they can't cancel us all, if we

708
00:33:57,520 --> 00:34:01,360
Speaker 2: all tell an unapologetic truth. What I found out later,

709
00:34:01,680 --> 00:34:05,120
Speaker 2: doctor Joe, I'll tell you is there were other networks.

710
00:34:05,160 --> 00:34:07,160
Speaker 2: I won't say, but there was a black own network

711
00:34:07,200 --> 00:34:10,960
Speaker 2: that was interested in doing a licensing agreement with MSNBC,

712
00:34:11,719 --> 00:34:13,520
Speaker 2: and that went away when my show went away, because

713
00:34:13,520 --> 00:34:15,960
Speaker 2: they said, well, the only content we wanted to license

714
00:34:16,160 --> 00:34:18,200
Speaker 2: was your show, so they were willing to lose money

715
00:34:18,600 --> 00:34:22,040
Speaker 2: over my show. There were people from different outlets who said, hey,

716
00:34:22,080 --> 00:34:23,960
Speaker 2: we reached out to them, we wanted to profile you,

717
00:34:24,040 --> 00:34:25,759
Speaker 2: we loved your fashion on the show, or we loved

718
00:34:25,760 --> 00:34:28,719
Speaker 2: your personality, wanted to do a profile, and the NBCPR

719
00:34:28,800 --> 00:34:32,000
Speaker 2: department would redirect them to someone else who they felt

720
00:34:32,040 --> 00:34:34,560
Speaker 2: was more appropriate. None of those requests ever found their

721
00:34:34,600 --> 00:34:37,560
Speaker 2: way to me. So the entire time I was there,

722
00:34:37,640 --> 00:34:40,680
Speaker 2: it was oppression. It was a meant to oppress. I

723
00:34:40,719 --> 00:34:43,640
Speaker 2: tell the fuller story on Native Land. You're familiar with it,

724
00:34:44,080 --> 00:34:46,480
Speaker 2: but yeah, it was just exhausting to deal with.

725
00:34:46,520 --> 00:34:47,000
Speaker 3: My sister.

726
00:34:47,440 --> 00:34:50,600
Speaker 2: Joy Reid is still there holding it down, and that's

727
00:34:50,640 --> 00:34:54,240
Speaker 2: the goal. Become unfuckiable, you know, like, become so big

728
00:34:54,360 --> 00:34:57,319
Speaker 2: they can't mess with you. And so I'm rooting for

729
00:34:57,440 --> 00:35:00,680
Speaker 2: Joy to keep getting bigger and bigger. He's literally the

730
00:35:00,760 --> 00:35:03,080
Speaker 2: only voice, and Joy and I did very different things,

731
00:35:03,400 --> 00:35:05,799
Speaker 2: but she's the only voice, so really the only reason

732
00:35:05,840 --> 00:35:07,640
Speaker 2: I had that show. She was very helpful to me,

733
00:35:07,920 --> 00:35:12,280
Speaker 2: but also the only voice who still is purely, unapologetically

734
00:35:12,480 --> 00:35:15,000
Speaker 2: a black woman's voice talking about all the things.

735
00:35:15,239 --> 00:35:17,320
Speaker 3: So yeah, I'm very much still in grief.

736
00:35:17,360 --> 00:35:19,760
Speaker 2: And you can imagine when I sit from advertisers today,

737
00:35:19,800 --> 00:35:22,120
Speaker 2: sit across from them, and they're saying, well, we're a

738
00:35:22,120 --> 00:35:25,400
Speaker 2: conservative company and we're a little concerned about getting in

739
00:35:25,440 --> 00:35:27,960
Speaker 2: bed with someone who has a political perspective. And I

740
00:35:28,000 --> 00:35:31,120
Speaker 2: mean a part of me is grief is still like goddamn, like,

741
00:35:31,280 --> 00:35:34,919
Speaker 2: how long in my four and a half decades of

742
00:35:35,000 --> 00:35:37,959
Speaker 2: life am I gonna have to center what makes white

743
00:35:38,000 --> 00:35:41,360
Speaker 2: folks comfortable? Like when does that end? When does it change?

744
00:35:41,680 --> 00:35:43,759
Speaker 2: And I ain't been able to answer that question yet.

745
00:35:44,040 --> 00:35:46,160
Speaker 2: So that's part of the grief. But I'm also I

746
00:35:46,200 --> 00:35:49,200
Speaker 2: just want to counter this. When I do feield this grief,

747
00:35:49,880 --> 00:35:54,640
Speaker 2: I am intentional about reminding myself of the abundance that

748
00:35:54,719 --> 00:35:57,799
Speaker 2: I have in life. I still get to express my

749
00:35:57,960 --> 00:36:01,480
Speaker 2: perspective and points of view in a political space and

750
00:36:01,520 --> 00:36:04,440
Speaker 2: a personal space, and there are still people who believe

751
00:36:04,480 --> 00:36:06,640
Speaker 2: in me and who show up and show me love.

752
00:36:07,040 --> 00:36:09,120
Speaker 2: And I don't ever want to take that for granted.

753
00:36:09,520 --> 00:36:12,439
Speaker 2: And I just have allowed myself to feel both these

754
00:36:12,480 --> 00:36:16,239
Speaker 2: things enormous gratitude for where I am in life and

755
00:36:16,280 --> 00:36:20,160
Speaker 2: what I still hold, and painful grief for what I've

756
00:36:20,200 --> 00:36:23,720
Speaker 2: been through as a little girl, as a grown woman,

757
00:36:24,320 --> 00:36:27,360
Speaker 2: for a little girl inside me who's always felt like

758
00:36:27,800 --> 00:36:30,440
Speaker 2: I would get rejected from this space consistently, because that's

759
00:36:30,480 --> 00:36:34,680
Speaker 2: what consistently happened. So, yes, both of those feelings are

760
00:36:34,800 --> 00:36:37,719
Speaker 2: very dominant inside me, doctor Joy, and that's why I

761
00:36:37,760 --> 00:36:39,600
Speaker 2: came to see you today, hopefully that you can just

762
00:36:39,640 --> 00:36:45,040
Speaker 2: give me all the joy.

763
00:36:43,360 --> 00:36:44,920
Speaker 1: That we can just wrap it all up in the

764
00:36:45,040 --> 00:36:45,600
Speaker 1: next book.

765
00:36:45,800 --> 00:36:48,000
Speaker 2: Yes, by the time this is over, I want to

766
00:36:48,040 --> 00:36:53,560
Speaker 2: be feeling eternal joy, just like elation, please and thank you.

767
00:36:54,320 --> 00:36:56,799
Speaker 1: If I could give you that, I absolutely would. But

768
00:36:56,840 --> 00:36:58,880
Speaker 1: it also feels like you are doing quite a bit

769
00:36:58,960 --> 00:37:01,319
Speaker 1: of work to grapple with this yourself, right, and like

770
00:37:01,360 --> 00:37:03,360
Speaker 1: trying to figure out what it means for you, and

771
00:37:03,440 --> 00:37:05,880
Speaker 1: like how do you hold space for both the grief

772
00:37:05,920 --> 00:37:08,560
Speaker 1: and the gratitude because they can coexist, right, they exist

773
00:37:08,560 --> 00:37:09,080
Speaker 1: sept the same.

774
00:37:09,160 --> 00:37:12,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I'm trying, you know, I go to therapy.

775
00:37:12,719 --> 00:37:16,000
Speaker 2: I'm not going as consistently. When my show got canceled,

776
00:37:16,000 --> 00:37:19,360
Speaker 2: I had to readjust all my finances and so that

777
00:37:19,440 --> 00:37:20,239
Speaker 2: was a part of it, and.

778
00:37:20,320 --> 00:37:23,600
Speaker 3: Not going to therapy every week because it is a luxury.

779
00:37:23,640 --> 00:37:25,360
Speaker 2: And I think every time we talk about therapy, we

780
00:37:25,400 --> 00:37:27,680
Speaker 2: don't think about the people who are living below the

781
00:37:27,680 --> 00:37:29,480
Speaker 2: poverty line and the wealth gap in this country.

782
00:37:29,520 --> 00:37:31,920
Speaker 3: Not everyone has access to therapy. And so my heart

783
00:37:32,120 --> 00:37:33,160
Speaker 3: was with the people who are like.

784
00:37:33,160 --> 00:37:34,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, I want to be better, but I got to

785
00:37:35,000 --> 00:37:39,040
Speaker 2: choose between my rent, my kids field trip, and therapy.

786
00:37:39,120 --> 00:37:41,960
Speaker 3: So I see you ladies out there who have that

787
00:37:42,080 --> 00:37:42,680
Speaker 3: choice to make.

788
00:37:43,160 --> 00:37:44,839
Speaker 2: I will say, this is the biggest thing that's come

789
00:37:44,880 --> 00:37:49,840
Speaker 2: out of therapy, and it's reconnecting with my childhood person.

790
00:37:50,000 --> 00:37:53,239
Speaker 2: Because I was so busy, when I say joy, I

791
00:37:53,400 --> 00:37:58,000
Speaker 2: worked my ass off, Okay, like for twenty plus years.

792
00:37:58,080 --> 00:38:01,080
Speaker 2: I was so dedicated to my craft as a journalist,

793
00:38:01,200 --> 00:38:04,800
Speaker 2: to storytelling and to living in service to black folks

794
00:38:04,840 --> 00:38:07,600
Speaker 2: that I never gave myself permission to be tired. Like

795
00:38:07,640 --> 00:38:10,080
Speaker 2: an eighteen hour day was the norm, That's just what

796
00:38:10,160 --> 00:38:13,680
Speaker 2: it was. And when life slowed down, all this pain

797
00:38:14,239 --> 00:38:16,959
Speaker 2: that I had been holding, all this pain I didn't

798
00:38:16,960 --> 00:38:20,200
Speaker 2: even know it was there was unearthed. It was unearthed,

799
00:38:20,440 --> 00:38:24,520
Speaker 2: and other people saw it. A woman, she's a shaman,

800
00:38:24,920 --> 00:38:31,560
Speaker 2: she's a blessing. She is just my spiritual protector, Latasha Brown.

801
00:38:32,280 --> 00:38:35,080
Speaker 2: To know Latasha is to love Latasha. I don't know

802
00:38:35,080 --> 00:38:36,680
Speaker 2: what it is about her, but she is an earth

803
00:38:36,760 --> 00:38:39,680
Speaker 2: angel like even her raspy voice, and she'll break out

804
00:38:39,719 --> 00:38:42,839
Speaker 2: in the song with you like everything. After my show

805
00:38:42,920 --> 00:38:45,480
Speaker 2: was canceled, she was over my house, which is also

806
00:38:45,560 --> 00:38:47,800
Speaker 2: a blessing because you can't never get Latasha to yourself.

807
00:38:47,800 --> 00:38:52,040
Speaker 2: So I got her to myself and she said, Tiffany,

808
00:38:52,600 --> 00:38:55,920
Speaker 2: there's something in you, like we know, like you're in pain,

809
00:38:56,640 --> 00:38:59,040
Speaker 2: you are mad, or first that you have all these

810
00:38:59,080 --> 00:39:01,440
Speaker 2: things that you haven't dealt with in life. Because I

811
00:39:01,440 --> 00:39:03,680
Speaker 2: would talk to Latasha about everything and I would always

812
00:39:03,719 --> 00:39:05,160
Speaker 2: wrap it up with, yeah, I'm gonna fix it, I'm

813
00:39:05,160 --> 00:39:08,160
Speaker 2: gonna figure it out whatever. And she said, it's like

814
00:39:08,239 --> 00:39:12,640
Speaker 2: it's a bowl of shit and you've put flowers on it.

815
00:39:12,800 --> 00:39:16,600
Speaker 2: You've put little like Doilei's with perfume, and you keep

816
00:39:17,040 --> 00:39:19,840
Speaker 2: powering on this bowl, all these flowers, all these doilies,

817
00:39:19,880 --> 00:39:23,560
Speaker 2: all this perfume, but shit stinks like shit is still there,

818
00:39:24,040 --> 00:39:26,640
Speaker 2: and you have to get rid of all these flowers.

819
00:39:26,719 --> 00:39:28,239
Speaker 2: You got to get all these doil, get rid of

820
00:39:28,239 --> 00:39:30,239
Speaker 2: all that perfume and deal with this shit.

821
00:39:30,280 --> 00:39:31,279
Speaker 3: In the bowl.

822
00:39:31,640 --> 00:39:34,840
Speaker 2: Otherwise it's always going to stink, It's always going to

823
00:39:34,880 --> 00:39:37,879
Speaker 2: be there, something about her putting it to me that way.

824
00:39:37,960 --> 00:39:40,960
Speaker 2: Ever since then, I have been working on Okay, let's

825
00:39:40,960 --> 00:39:43,040
Speaker 2: get rid of this, let's get rid of that, and

826
00:39:43,160 --> 00:39:48,640
Speaker 2: connecting with why do I feel this pain? Why did

827
00:39:48,680 --> 00:39:52,680
Speaker 2: I make these choices? How do I undo it? How

828
00:39:52,719 --> 00:39:56,200
Speaker 2: can I go on this journey and invite others to

829
00:39:56,239 --> 00:39:57,000
Speaker 2: come along with me?

830
00:39:57,040 --> 00:39:58,720
Speaker 3: If I know you, if I don't know you, people

831
00:39:58,719 --> 00:40:00,680
Speaker 3: would say, well, you gotta dose work to do the work?

832
00:40:00,920 --> 00:40:02,680
Speaker 3: Do you want a relationship? God? Do the work? Want

833
00:40:02,680 --> 00:40:03,080
Speaker 3: to be happy?

834
00:40:03,160 --> 00:40:03,359
Speaker 4: God?

835
00:40:03,400 --> 00:40:04,839
Speaker 3: Do the work? And I'm like, what does the work

836
00:40:04,880 --> 00:40:06,400
Speaker 3: look like? Do I have to read some books? I

837
00:40:06,440 --> 00:40:08,640
Speaker 3: could do that? Do I take notes? Do I have

838
00:40:08,680 --> 00:40:09,720
Speaker 3: to learn a new language?

839
00:40:09,719 --> 00:40:09,839
Speaker 4: Like?

840
00:40:09,880 --> 00:40:11,080
Speaker 3: What is this work?

841
00:40:11,560 --> 00:40:14,400
Speaker 2: Give me a specific example of when I wake up

842
00:40:14,440 --> 00:40:16,120
Speaker 2: in the morning, what does that work look like? And

843
00:40:16,160 --> 00:40:18,960
Speaker 2: I think the work is different for everyone, and so

844
00:40:19,160 --> 00:40:22,320
Speaker 2: for me to feel my feelings, I don't.

845
00:40:22,080 --> 00:40:24,440
Speaker 3: Even know how to do that. I think I'm feeling

846
00:40:24,480 --> 00:40:28,600
Speaker 3: my feelings. I don't know. I'm trying to, but I know.

847
00:40:28,800 --> 00:40:33,839
Speaker 2: Even just taking this step has been frightening and painful

848
00:40:34,080 --> 00:40:38,719
Speaker 2: and just God awful, but I see light at the

849
00:40:38,800 --> 00:40:40,920
Speaker 2: end of this tunnel. I see something different on the

850
00:40:40,960 --> 00:40:43,399
Speaker 2: other side of it. And so where I am in life,

851
00:40:43,440 --> 00:40:46,080
Speaker 2: I'm still in the thick of this shit, still in

852
00:40:46,160 --> 00:40:49,520
Speaker 2: the think of it, and I know there are people

853
00:40:49,560 --> 00:40:51,759
Speaker 2: going through this too. They may not be honest with me,

854
00:40:52,360 --> 00:40:55,480
Speaker 2: and worse yet, they may not be honest with themselves.

855
00:40:55,960 --> 00:40:57,919
Speaker 2: But there are people in my life and it's like, hey,

856
00:40:57,960 --> 00:41:00,640
Speaker 2: I know you're going through this shit too, and if

857
00:41:00,680 --> 00:41:02,520
Speaker 2: you're not going to be honest about it, that's okay.

858
00:41:02,560 --> 00:41:05,320
Speaker 2: But I know for me, I can't pretend another second.

859
00:41:05,440 --> 00:41:07,920
Speaker 2: I want to be as honest as possible and share

860
00:41:07,960 --> 00:41:10,960
Speaker 2: this with people so they can figure their own shit

861
00:41:11,040 --> 00:41:13,080
Speaker 2: out too, because we're all trying to figure it out.

862
00:41:13,280 --> 00:41:16,600
Speaker 2: I think we all want to experience doctor joy, but

863
00:41:16,680 --> 00:41:19,839
Speaker 2: we all also want to experience our own personal joy,

864
00:41:19,880 --> 00:41:22,680
Speaker 2: And right now I have pockets of joy. Like I'm

865
00:41:22,719 --> 00:41:25,080
Speaker 2: feel happy right now talking to you in this space.

866
00:41:25,120 --> 00:41:27,799
Speaker 2: I feel very happy when this is over and I'm

867
00:41:27,840 --> 00:41:30,560
Speaker 2: sitting on my sofa and maybe I'm rereading our Tavia

868
00:41:30,640 --> 00:41:34,040
Speaker 2: Butler Parable of the Sour so good. But when I'm

869
00:41:34,120 --> 00:41:36,080
Speaker 2: reading and then I'm done reading, and I'm just sitting

870
00:41:36,120 --> 00:41:38,600
Speaker 2: here and it's quiet, and I'm in the quiet of

871
00:41:38,640 --> 00:41:41,719
Speaker 2: my thoughts and the quiet corners of my mind. Those

872
00:41:41,760 --> 00:41:44,040
Speaker 2: are the moments where maybe I am sad, maybe I

873
00:41:44,080 --> 00:41:46,640
Speaker 2: do have this memory, or maybe I'm missing something. I

874
00:41:46,719 --> 00:41:49,319
Speaker 2: just stop dating someone, you know, like, so maybe that

875
00:41:49,480 --> 00:41:51,960
Speaker 2: sadness comes over. And so trying to feel my feelings

876
00:41:52,000 --> 00:41:53,800
Speaker 2: and the best way I can. But it's a journey,

877
00:41:53,840 --> 00:41:55,400
Speaker 2: doctor Joy, Really is it?

878
00:41:55,760 --> 00:41:57,680
Speaker 3: Really? Truly? Is you better? Hope I don't get your

879
00:41:57,719 --> 00:41:59,000
Speaker 3: cell phone and I brought this podcast.

880
00:42:00,640 --> 00:42:03,920
Speaker 1: No, you're here honestly like you're doing it right. And

881
00:42:03,960 --> 00:42:06,000
Speaker 1: I think again, when you are such like a high

882
00:42:06,080 --> 00:42:09,399
Speaker 1: achieving person, even healing becomes this thing that you want

883
00:42:09,440 --> 00:42:11,600
Speaker 1: to get right right like this, oh I get to

884
00:42:11,640 --> 00:42:13,440
Speaker 1: do I get a gold star and healing, but you

885
00:42:13,520 --> 00:42:16,680
Speaker 1: are doing it. You are letting yourself feel whatever comes up,

886
00:42:16,719 --> 00:42:20,000
Speaker 1: whether that's happiness or grief, or joy or sadness. Like

887
00:42:20,040 --> 00:42:22,320
Speaker 1: you are allowing yourself to feel all of those things.

888
00:42:22,480 --> 00:42:25,440
Speaker 2: But when does it become more happiness and joy and

889
00:42:25,600 --> 00:42:26,680
Speaker 2: less sadness.

890
00:42:26,960 --> 00:42:29,160
Speaker 1: Well, I think it depends, and I think you have

891
00:42:29,200 --> 00:42:30,400
Speaker 1: to put things in context.

892
00:42:30,440 --> 00:42:30,600
Speaker 4: Right.

893
00:42:30,960 --> 00:42:34,319
Speaker 1: You had your show canceled. We were in a pandemic,

894
00:42:34,760 --> 00:42:37,200
Speaker 1: like there are all these other things that like impact

895
00:42:37,320 --> 00:42:39,360
Speaker 1: how we are going to be feeling, and you have

896
00:42:39,520 --> 00:42:42,960
Speaker 1: this you know, it sounds like very difficult childhood experience, right,

897
00:42:43,000 --> 00:42:45,719
Speaker 1: and so all of those things are culminating, and you've

898
00:42:45,760 --> 00:42:48,120
Speaker 1: never really allowed yourself to feel any of it. So

899
00:42:48,160 --> 00:42:51,200
Speaker 1: you cannot expect that a couple of months of therapy

900
00:42:51,280 --> 00:42:53,359
Speaker 1: will be like, Okay, well we're good, Now I got

901
00:42:53,400 --> 00:42:55,719
Speaker 1: more days of happiness. I think it is really just

902
00:42:55,760 --> 00:42:58,759
Speaker 1: about making sure that you're giving yourself grace with all

903
00:42:58,800 --> 00:42:59,080
Speaker 1: of it.

904
00:42:59,680 --> 00:43:02,560
Speaker 3: Great, that is the thing that you know what.

905
00:43:02,640 --> 00:43:05,080
Speaker 2: I'm so happy you said that because that is where

906
00:43:05,120 --> 00:43:09,239
Speaker 2: I'm trying to start give myself grace because there are

907
00:43:09,280 --> 00:43:12,920
Speaker 2: situations that I didn't handle well because as Latasha told me,

908
00:43:12,920 --> 00:43:14,840
Speaker 2: it says bull as shit, and so I'm trying to

909
00:43:14,880 --> 00:43:19,799
Speaker 2: give myself grace for all the situations. The guy I

910
00:43:19,960 --> 00:43:23,080
Speaker 2: just stopped dating. I give myself grace because I handle

911
00:43:23,480 --> 00:43:26,600
Speaker 2: things with the emotional tools available to me at that

912
00:43:26,680 --> 00:43:31,600
Speaker 2: time and conversations with my mother. I handled it the

913
00:43:31,640 --> 00:43:34,160
Speaker 2: best I could at that time, and that's just what

914
00:43:34,200 --> 00:43:37,799
Speaker 2: it is. But I didn't realize I was carrying around

915
00:43:37,960 --> 00:43:42,840
Speaker 2: so much shame. So many feelings of unworthiness, So many

916
00:43:43,239 --> 00:43:46,160
Speaker 2: thoughts of these things happen to you because you deserve

917
00:43:46,239 --> 00:43:49,239
Speaker 2: them to happen to you. The inability to really love

918
00:43:49,280 --> 00:43:52,080
Speaker 2: another person, because you can only love another person to

919
00:43:52,080 --> 00:43:53,480
Speaker 2: the extent that you love yourself.

920
00:43:53,719 --> 00:43:57,640
Speaker 3: And if you ask me, Tiffany, do you love yourself? Hell? Yeah,

921
00:43:57,680 --> 00:43:58,000
Speaker 3: I do.

922
00:43:58,239 --> 00:44:00,480
Speaker 2: Like I think I'm the bomb. Yeah, I love myself.

923
00:44:00,640 --> 00:44:03,719
Speaker 2: But here is the kicker. Does your behavior bear that out?

924
00:44:04,040 --> 00:44:05,640
Speaker 2: And so that's what I try to kick back to

925
00:44:05,760 --> 00:44:09,200
Speaker 2: younger women. You say you love yourself, but this little

926
00:44:09,239 --> 00:44:13,320
Speaker 2: boy you're dealing with, does that represent loving yourself? This

927
00:44:13,560 --> 00:44:16,400
Speaker 2: job that you're staying in, does that represent loving yourself?

928
00:44:16,480 --> 00:44:18,600
Speaker 2: How you present yourself to the world every day, does

929
00:44:18,640 --> 00:44:21,759
Speaker 2: that represent loving yourself? You being addicted to Instagram and

930
00:44:21,840 --> 00:44:24,319
Speaker 2: doom scrolling and looking at social media all the time,

931
00:44:24,360 --> 00:44:27,480
Speaker 2: does that represent loving yourself? So all of these things

932
00:44:28,360 --> 00:44:31,200
Speaker 2: that happen to us on this journey in the world,

933
00:44:31,880 --> 00:44:34,440
Speaker 2: I am picking up what I need to and putting

934
00:44:34,440 --> 00:44:36,239
Speaker 2: down what I need to on the journey home back

935
00:44:36,280 --> 00:44:38,719
Speaker 2: to myself. And so that is the most honest answer

936
00:44:38,760 --> 00:44:40,640
Speaker 2: I can give to anybody out there who's asking what

937
00:44:40,719 --> 00:44:43,200
Speaker 2: is the work that has been what the work looks

938
00:44:43,239 --> 00:44:45,920
Speaker 2: like for me, and it's a journey. I have not

939
00:44:45,960 --> 00:44:49,320
Speaker 2: reached this destination yet, and I know it's not a destination,

940
00:44:49,400 --> 00:44:52,080
Speaker 2: that it's a lifelong journey, but I really would like

941
00:44:52,160 --> 00:44:54,880
Speaker 2: to soon, very soon, Doctor Joy, get the base camp one,

942
00:44:55,080 --> 00:44:57,800
Speaker 2: you know, let.

943
00:44:57,680 --> 00:45:01,919
Speaker 3: Me rest for a minute at some point, let me rest.

944
00:45:03,160 --> 00:45:14,239
Speaker 1: More from our conversation after the break. So I want

945
00:45:14,280 --> 00:45:16,080
Speaker 1: to ask you a question that I feel like might

946
00:45:16,120 --> 00:45:19,200
Speaker 1: show up on a Cross Generations episode. So for any

947
00:45:19,280 --> 00:45:21,800
Speaker 1: younger listeners who are listening to us, any members of

948
00:45:21,840 --> 00:45:24,799
Speaker 1: our community are black women who are like news producers

949
00:45:24,880 --> 00:45:28,760
Speaker 1: or journalists who may find themselves navigating a similar situation

950
00:45:28,800 --> 00:45:30,719
Speaker 1: where they want to tell black stories. They want to

951
00:45:30,760 --> 00:45:34,320
Speaker 1: show up authentically, but they may be struggling to feel

952
00:45:34,320 --> 00:45:36,680
Speaker 1: like heard and prioritized. Don't like so much of what

953
00:45:36,800 --> 00:45:39,200
Speaker 1: you shared. What kinds of things would you say to them?

954
00:45:39,880 --> 00:45:45,920
Speaker 2: Well, I'll say, in general, be excellent at your craft first.

955
00:45:46,600 --> 00:45:50,400
Speaker 2: I think yes, among our sister friends and in spaces

956
00:45:50,440 --> 00:45:53,280
Speaker 2: like this, we have the whole space for our authentic selves.

957
00:45:54,040 --> 00:45:57,240
Speaker 2: I think in the private sector, in the corporate space

958
00:45:57,280 --> 00:46:00,480
Speaker 2: and spaces that are professional where you work, that is

959
00:46:00,520 --> 00:46:03,000
Speaker 2: a space where you do have to create value and

960
00:46:03,040 --> 00:46:06,080
Speaker 2: your personal space, love is free. Love and respect just

961
00:46:06,280 --> 00:46:09,919
Speaker 2: ought to be there in your professional space. I think

962
00:46:09,960 --> 00:46:13,359
Speaker 2: sometimes younger people conflate the two. It ain't like that

963
00:46:13,440 --> 00:46:15,720
Speaker 2: in the professionals that you actually do have to earn

964
00:46:16,520 --> 00:46:18,239
Speaker 2: the ability to.

965
00:46:19,040 --> 00:46:20,080
Speaker 3: Flex a little bit.

966
00:46:20,239 --> 00:46:23,799
Speaker 2: So be great at your craft, learn it, know it,

967
00:46:24,160 --> 00:46:26,520
Speaker 2: hone it. Hopefully it's something you enjoy. And if it's

968
00:46:26,520 --> 00:46:29,000
Speaker 2: not what you enjoy, find what you enjoy so much

969
00:46:29,000 --> 00:46:31,200
Speaker 2: that you would do it for free. That's probably the

970
00:46:31,200 --> 00:46:34,600
Speaker 2: best advice because I think sometimes people misunderstand my words

971
00:46:35,120 --> 00:46:37,680
Speaker 2: and they feel like, well I showed up and I

972
00:46:37,719 --> 00:46:39,360
Speaker 2: told my boss blah blah, And it's like, well, you

973
00:46:39,360 --> 00:46:41,560
Speaker 2: ain't really earned the right to do that yet. But

974
00:46:41,680 --> 00:46:43,799
Speaker 2: also to the flip side of that, I want to

975
00:46:44,200 --> 00:46:46,560
Speaker 2: honor young people and the voices that they have. And

976
00:46:46,600 --> 00:46:48,799
Speaker 2: you are there for a reason, and so if you

977
00:46:48,840 --> 00:46:49,480
Speaker 2: have something to.

978
00:46:49,400 --> 00:46:51,239
Speaker 3: Say, say it. But here are the three questions to

979
00:46:51,239 --> 00:46:52,319
Speaker 3: ask yourself. These are not mine.

980
00:46:52,360 --> 00:46:54,719
Speaker 2: Someone gave this advice to me. It's like a well

981
00:46:54,760 --> 00:46:57,000
Speaker 2: known Q and A for yourself. But here's a question

982
00:46:57,040 --> 00:47:01,000
Speaker 2: to ask yourself. Does this need to be said? Does

983
00:47:01,040 --> 00:47:04,239
Speaker 2: this need to be said by me? Does this need

984
00:47:04,280 --> 00:47:07,200
Speaker 2: to be said by me right now. Those are three

985
00:47:07,600 --> 00:47:10,719
Speaker 2: fair questions that you ought to ask yourself before you're

986
00:47:10,760 --> 00:47:13,280
Speaker 2: ready to speak up and take up space and hold

987
00:47:13,320 --> 00:47:16,040
Speaker 2: space and be raw rah and live in community and

988
00:47:16,080 --> 00:47:18,879
Speaker 2: service black for all those things, because we do want

989
00:47:18,920 --> 00:47:20,279
Speaker 2: you to be there, and we want you to have

990
00:47:20,280 --> 00:47:24,239
Speaker 2: an income, and we want you to build professionally. But

991
00:47:24,400 --> 00:47:26,640
Speaker 2: ask yourself those questions. First, y'all not going to have

992
00:47:26,680 --> 00:47:28,880
Speaker 2: Tiffany out here telling y'all like, go in there and

993
00:47:28,960 --> 00:47:30,719
Speaker 2: you tell it also like no, no, no, no, no no no,

994
00:47:31,880 --> 00:47:35,719
Speaker 2: be responsible with your voice. So I see you, I

995
00:47:35,800 --> 00:47:38,080
Speaker 2: hear you, and I know how frustrating things can be.

996
00:47:38,520 --> 00:47:41,480
Speaker 2: And be too big for them to ignore. That's the

997
00:47:41,560 --> 00:47:43,760
Speaker 2: other thing, because when you're too big for them to ignore,

998
00:47:44,280 --> 00:47:45,200
Speaker 2: they come a running.

999
00:47:45,600 --> 00:47:46,400
Speaker 3: For sure they do.

1000
00:47:47,000 --> 00:47:49,960
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, So you've already shared some of this, But

1001
00:47:50,080 --> 00:47:53,120
Speaker 1: what does your support look like outside of therapy? So,

1002
00:47:53,360 --> 00:47:55,960
Speaker 1: I mean you talked about your girlfriends, your sister's circle,

1003
00:47:56,000 --> 00:47:58,640
Speaker 1: who I know have been critical for you. What else

1004
00:47:58,640 --> 00:48:01,000
Speaker 1: does support look like for you?

1005
00:47:59,719 --> 00:48:02,719
Speaker 2: You'll have to tell me if there's a support or not.

1006
00:48:03,320 --> 00:48:07,040
Speaker 2: But I turn off my phone. I treat my phone

1007
00:48:07,080 --> 00:48:10,439
Speaker 2: almost like a landline. The sound of my phone ringing

1008
00:48:10,520 --> 00:48:15,160
Speaker 2: irritates me sometimes and it's always every two seconds. So

1009
00:48:15,640 --> 00:48:18,520
Speaker 2: just getting away from my devices. You know, I grew

1010
00:48:18,600 --> 00:48:21,480
Speaker 2: up at a time where everybody didn't have a smartphone.

1011
00:48:21,600 --> 00:48:23,799
Speaker 3: We would have that long phone.

1012
00:48:23,600 --> 00:48:26,000
Speaker 2: Cord that you would stretch all the way. Mom would

1013
00:48:26,000 --> 00:48:27,200
Speaker 2: pick up the phone. You still on the phone.

1014
00:48:27,200 --> 00:48:29,520
Speaker 3: It's ten o'clock, Get off the phone, embarrass you, you know.

1015
00:48:30,040 --> 00:48:32,080
Speaker 3: And I think there's something to that.

1016
00:48:32,200 --> 00:48:36,120
Speaker 2: I think these phones were intended to make it easier

1017
00:48:36,160 --> 00:48:38,680
Speaker 2: to connect with people, and they've had the opposite effect.

1018
00:48:39,239 --> 00:48:41,799
Speaker 2: And so yeah, that is a big factor for me.

1019
00:48:42,280 --> 00:48:44,799
Speaker 2: And then one thing that I do, I think I

1020
00:48:44,960 --> 00:48:48,160
Speaker 2: run for support, you know. I run to my girlfriend group.

1021
00:48:48,239 --> 00:48:51,520
Speaker 2: I have two of my closest friends, two more housemen.

1022
00:48:51,640 --> 00:48:52,839
Speaker 2: We're really close and so.

1023
00:48:52,840 --> 00:48:54,000
Speaker 3: We hang out a lot.

1024
00:48:54,640 --> 00:48:58,919
Speaker 2: And I've had to learn how to isolate on some level.

1025
00:48:58,920 --> 00:49:01,279
Speaker 2: And this might not be the answer for everybody, but

1026
00:49:01,400 --> 00:49:05,440
Speaker 2: for me, it's an escape. I'm not really working through things.

1027
00:49:05,480 --> 00:49:08,759
Speaker 2: It's an escape, and so I have tried to just

1028
00:49:08,840 --> 00:49:09,560
Speaker 2: stand still.

1029
00:49:10,320 --> 00:49:11,240
Speaker 3: I love walking.

1030
00:49:11,440 --> 00:49:14,080
Speaker 2: I walk probably five or six miles a day, So

1031
00:49:14,200 --> 00:49:16,880
Speaker 2: I walk, I listen to music. Sometimes sometimes I just

1032
00:49:16,920 --> 00:49:19,319
Speaker 2: have my earbuds in so nobody will talk to me,

1033
00:49:20,040 --> 00:49:24,000
Speaker 2: and I'm really in silence, reading, just spending time with

1034
00:49:24,120 --> 00:49:26,680
Speaker 2: myself and learning to really be okay with who I

1035
00:49:26,680 --> 00:49:28,680
Speaker 2: am in my own company. I've always done that my

1036
00:49:28,680 --> 00:49:32,120
Speaker 2: whole life, but as I'm working through this bowl of sugar,

1037
00:49:32,160 --> 00:49:34,879
Speaker 2: honey Ica, that's one thing that I'm learning to do.

1038
00:49:34,920 --> 00:49:36,880
Speaker 2: But I do just want to shout out my girlfriends

1039
00:49:36,880 --> 00:49:40,319
Speaker 2: who are I mean, get you a girlfriend group that

1040
00:49:40,480 --> 00:49:42,920
Speaker 2: supports you, like y'all are blood sisters.

1041
00:49:43,680 --> 00:49:44,359
Speaker 3: My friends and I.

1042
00:49:44,440 --> 00:49:47,960
Speaker 2: We share salary information, we share job opportunities, we share

1043
00:49:48,480 --> 00:49:52,359
Speaker 2: dating stories, marriage stories, child rearing stories. There really is

1044
00:49:52,480 --> 00:49:57,040
Speaker 2: no topic off limits with me. With joy read Sunny

1045
00:49:57,080 --> 00:50:01,040
Speaker 2: hostin Angela, Rye, Britney Packnick Honeyham, Alicia, Aaron Haynes from

1046
00:50:01,040 --> 00:50:06,480
Speaker 2: the nineteenth Carrie Champion, Jamel Hill, and Latizah Brown. I

1047
00:50:06,520 --> 00:50:08,920
Speaker 2: feel like I'm leaving somebody out so they're gonna kill me.

1048
00:50:08,960 --> 00:50:12,840
Speaker 2: But that's the crew and I'm forever in gratitude to

1049
00:50:12,960 --> 00:50:15,480
Speaker 2: all those ladies when my show was canceled, like they

1050
00:50:15,600 --> 00:50:19,240
Speaker 2: just surrounded me and took over my life in many ways.

1051
00:50:19,320 --> 00:50:21,879
Speaker 2: But yeah, that girlfriend group is crucially important. I also

1052
00:50:21,880 --> 00:50:24,319
Speaker 2: have a book club who I'm very close with, so

1053
00:50:24,440 --> 00:50:27,040
Speaker 2: I'm surrounded by women. I will say that, and I

1054
00:50:27,160 --> 00:50:29,120
Speaker 2: shout out to black men because they're black men in

1055
00:50:29,160 --> 00:50:29,600
Speaker 2: my life.

1056
00:50:29,640 --> 00:50:32,319
Speaker 3: But I'm grateful for my community for sure.

1057
00:50:33,520 --> 00:50:35,080
Speaker 1: I want to go back to that story you shared

1058
00:50:35,080 --> 00:50:38,080
Speaker 1: about Latasha because I feel like there may be people

1059
00:50:38,120 --> 00:50:40,719
Speaker 1: listening who are wondering, like, oh my gosh, like she

1060
00:50:40,800 --> 00:50:43,560
Speaker 1: said that to you. Yeah, but I do feel like

1061
00:50:43,640 --> 00:50:46,880
Speaker 1: that speaks to the level of intimacy and safety in

1062
00:50:46,920 --> 00:50:49,160
Speaker 1: the friendship that she would be able to say something

1063
00:50:49,160 --> 00:50:51,560
Speaker 1: that maybe difficult for you to hear. Can you talk

1064
00:50:51,560 --> 00:50:54,880
Speaker 1: about what kinds of things allowed the relationship between you

1065
00:50:54,920 --> 00:50:57,640
Speaker 1: and her, but also in your larger friendship circle to

1066
00:50:57,640 --> 00:50:59,120
Speaker 1: get to a place where you all may be able

1067
00:50:59,160 --> 00:51:00,720
Speaker 1: to say some things like that to one another.

1068
00:51:01,239 --> 00:51:02,319
Speaker 3: Yeah, thank you for that.

1069
00:51:02,360 --> 00:51:04,000
Speaker 2: Well, let me just say, if any of you all

1070
00:51:04,080 --> 00:51:06,680
Speaker 2: are blessed enough to meet Latasha, she might say something

1071
00:51:06,719 --> 00:51:08,360
Speaker 2: like that to you, Like I really think she is

1072
00:51:08,400 --> 00:51:12,280
Speaker 2: an oracle and everyone who meets her feels this connection

1073
00:51:12,520 --> 00:51:14,800
Speaker 2: to her. To me, it just feels like she sees

1074
00:51:14,880 --> 00:51:17,600
Speaker 2: right through me, like I can't lie and she just

1075
00:51:17,640 --> 00:51:20,760
Speaker 2: has the ability to pull out what I'm trying to say.

1076
00:51:21,239 --> 00:51:24,200
Speaker 2: She is the founder of Black Voters Matter, but she's

1077
00:51:24,239 --> 00:51:27,080
Speaker 2: so much more than that. When Hurricane Katrina happened, nobody

1078
00:51:27,120 --> 00:51:29,080
Speaker 2: called Latasha to say, hey, we need help. She just

1079
00:51:29,120 --> 00:51:30,960
Speaker 2: saw it and went into action and was trying to

1080
00:51:30,960 --> 00:51:34,279
Speaker 2: get black folks out, was transporting water in. She's that

1081
00:51:34,800 --> 00:51:39,319
Speaker 2: woman in the community who loves everybody's kids and just

1082
00:51:39,480 --> 00:51:42,400
Speaker 2: leads with love. You cannot tell the story of America

1083
00:51:42,480 --> 00:51:45,960
Speaker 2: right now without talking about Latasha Brown. She's a community organizer,

1084
00:51:46,360 --> 00:51:48,640
Speaker 2: but she's also grassroots and grasstops.

1085
00:51:48,719 --> 00:51:49,640
Speaker 3: People who are.

1086
00:51:49,920 --> 00:51:53,920
Speaker 2: Billionaires call her directly. They don't go through assistance or anything.

1087
00:51:53,960 --> 00:51:56,400
Speaker 2: They just want to be connected to her, and she

1088
00:51:56,520 --> 00:51:59,839
Speaker 2: has the same love for them as people who are

1089
00:52:00,040 --> 00:52:03,040
Speaker 2: out here with no family, and she'll has somebody with

1090
00:52:03,080 --> 00:52:04,480
Speaker 2: her and she's like, yo, that's my daughter.

1091
00:52:04,760 --> 00:52:06,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, I didn't raise her since she was fib I'm like, no,

1092
00:52:06,719 --> 00:52:09,400
Speaker 3: ain't nobody know that, Like, she's just one of those people.

1093
00:52:09,880 --> 00:52:11,920
Speaker 2: So I think in our friendship group she has that

1094
00:52:12,000 --> 00:52:15,840
Speaker 2: kind of relationship and connection with everybody. But even outside

1095
00:52:15,840 --> 00:52:18,879
Speaker 2: of our friendship group, she has that with everybody. Your

1096
00:52:18,920 --> 00:52:22,480
Speaker 2: relationships don't matter if their friendships that are romantic in

1097
00:52:22,560 --> 00:52:25,839
Speaker 2: nature or just platonic friendship with your girlfriends. I think

1098
00:52:25,920 --> 00:52:29,879
Speaker 2: your relationships in life mirror back to you who you are,

1099
00:52:30,680 --> 00:52:35,120
Speaker 2: and sometimes you don't like what they're reflecting back to you.

1100
00:52:35,280 --> 00:52:37,279
Speaker 2: And I think that for me has been part of

1101
00:52:37,320 --> 00:52:40,759
Speaker 2: the work too. You know, I had my girlfriends reflecting

1102
00:52:40,960 --> 00:52:42,480
Speaker 2: back to me who I am, but I was also

1103
00:52:42,640 --> 00:52:46,600
Speaker 2: dating someone who reflected back to me who I am,

1104
00:52:47,000 --> 00:52:48,120
Speaker 2: and it.

1105
00:52:48,080 --> 00:52:50,359
Speaker 3: Was traumatizing to see some of these things.

1106
00:52:50,400 --> 00:52:53,680
Speaker 2: You know, I think that's probably the most intimate relationship

1107
00:52:53,760 --> 00:52:57,520
Speaker 2: romantic in nature. And they say, if you're ready to

1108
00:52:57,840 --> 00:53:00,400
Speaker 2: move into partnership, be ready to meet yourself. And I

1109
00:53:00,520 --> 00:53:03,879
Speaker 2: met myself. And so with all of these relationships, something

1110
00:53:03,920 --> 00:53:06,759
Speaker 2: about it. There's something like the stars aligned at this

1111
00:53:06,960 --> 00:53:12,520
Speaker 2: time right now for me to experience incredible loss, rejection, hurt, feelings,

1112
00:53:12,560 --> 00:53:17,080
Speaker 2: heartbreak in every part of life. And so I have

1113
00:53:17,160 --> 00:53:20,720
Speaker 2: to trust that this is happening for me to grow

1114
00:53:20,760 --> 00:53:24,000
Speaker 2: and to blossom. I really truly believe that I think

1115
00:53:24,480 --> 00:53:28,160
Speaker 2: I am meant to experience everything I am at this

1116
00:53:28,239 --> 00:53:32,600
Speaker 2: particular time, because I won't be able to fully receive

1117
00:53:32,760 --> 00:53:35,480
Speaker 2: what's next if I didn't deal with that bull of

1118
00:53:35,520 --> 00:53:38,640
Speaker 2: shit that Latasha talked about. And one thing she said

1119
00:53:38,680 --> 00:53:42,000
Speaker 2: to me, there's a dark spirit that aims to devour you.

1120
00:53:42,880 --> 00:53:46,120
Speaker 2: And what I realize is that dark spirit can jump

1121
00:53:46,160 --> 00:53:49,120
Speaker 2: from person to person, and it can even jump inside myself.

1122
00:53:49,560 --> 00:53:52,800
Speaker 2: And so these thoughts that you have about being unworthy

1123
00:53:52,840 --> 00:53:54,799
Speaker 2: and oh I can't believe I ate that sniggers bar

1124
00:53:54,920 --> 00:53:58,040
Speaker 2: last night, or I drank two shots of tequila and

1125
00:53:58,080 --> 00:54:01,279
Speaker 2: that's empty calories, and all the things we think about ourselves.

1126
00:54:01,760 --> 00:54:04,200
Speaker 2: Tina Lifford does a great thing where she was saying,

1127
00:54:05,040 --> 00:54:07,960
Speaker 2: you have something like a thousand thoughts a day, and

1128
00:54:08,120 --> 00:54:10,839
Speaker 2: nine hundred and ninety nine of them are negative, and

1129
00:54:10,920 --> 00:54:14,719
Speaker 2: so just trying to undo my way of thinking. I

1130
00:54:14,719 --> 00:54:17,280
Speaker 2: don't think any of those things would have happened without

1131
00:54:17,400 --> 00:54:21,680
Speaker 2: the circumstances that met me, and without the sisterhood that

1132
00:54:21,760 --> 00:54:22,759
Speaker 2: God has placed.

1133
00:54:22,440 --> 00:54:23,000
Speaker 3: In my life.

1134
00:54:23,280 --> 00:54:26,200
Speaker 2: And even with some of the people who didn't meet me,

1135
00:54:26,280 --> 00:54:29,440
Speaker 2: well like they came along. It's like the old folks say,

1136
00:54:29,440 --> 00:54:31,279
Speaker 2: we gonna take what the devil meant for evil and

1137
00:54:31,320 --> 00:54:32,160
Speaker 2: you use for good.

1138
00:54:32,640 --> 00:54:33,960
Speaker 3: But I won't call them evil.

1139
00:54:33,960 --> 00:54:37,520
Speaker 2: But I will take these circumstances and plant the seed

1140
00:54:37,719 --> 00:54:41,160
Speaker 2: and let it grow. I'm just blessed. I feel very blessed.

1141
00:54:41,200 --> 00:54:44,160
Speaker 2: I'm heartbroken in a lot of ways still, But like

1142
00:54:44,200 --> 00:54:46,319
Speaker 2: I said, I can hold space for being heartbroken and

1143
00:54:46,360 --> 00:54:49,640
Speaker 2: I can hold space and being blessed that I don't

1144
00:54:49,680 --> 00:54:51,880
Speaker 2: know any other way to describe this work.

1145
00:54:52,440 --> 00:54:55,240
Speaker 3: That's how I feel every day. That's how I feel.

1146
00:54:55,360 --> 00:54:59,799
Speaker 2: Some level of heartbreak and some level of abundance and joy.

1147
00:55:00,440 --> 00:55:02,600
Speaker 3: And they're equal. Now, well, I would like them to

1148
00:55:02,600 --> 00:55:03,399
Speaker 3: be asymmetrical.

1149
00:55:03,400 --> 00:55:06,399
Speaker 2: I would like it to be abundant joy and then

1150
00:55:07,040 --> 00:55:10,080
Speaker 2: you know, oh a five minute heartbreak sadness.

1151
00:55:10,200 --> 00:55:11,960
Speaker 3: Now it's like equal parts posts.

1152
00:55:12,520 --> 00:55:14,480
Speaker 1: Got it? Got it?

1153
00:55:14,520 --> 00:55:16,799
Speaker 2: Is it improper for me to ask how you're doing,

1154
00:55:16,880 --> 00:55:17,439
Speaker 2: doctor Joy?

1155
00:55:17,560 --> 00:55:19,959
Speaker 3: I mean, I feel like my therapist, like you can't ask,

1156
00:55:20,080 --> 00:55:21,239
Speaker 3: but how are you doing?

1157
00:55:21,440 --> 00:55:23,239
Speaker 1: I'm not, so you can definitely.

1158
00:55:23,000 --> 00:55:27,719
Speaker 2: Okay, how are you doing personally and professionally?

1159
00:55:28,239 --> 00:55:31,080
Speaker 1: So I feel like I am doing better now. I

1160
00:55:31,080 --> 00:55:33,920
Speaker 1: definitely feel like I am just now on the upswing.

1161
00:55:34,520 --> 00:55:37,080
Speaker 1: After a book promo, I feel like I talked to

1162
00:55:37,120 --> 00:55:40,239
Speaker 1: so many authors who like tried to warn me about

1163
00:55:40,280 --> 00:55:43,160
Speaker 1: the toll that releasing a book takes on you. Yeah,

1164
00:55:43,239 --> 00:55:44,920
Speaker 1: and even though I felt like I prepared as much

1165
00:55:44,920 --> 00:55:46,880
Speaker 1: as I could, Like, I don't think in theory you

1166
00:55:46,920 --> 00:55:49,440
Speaker 1: can't know right until you do it. But I definitely

1167
00:55:49,600 --> 00:55:52,640
Speaker 1: was burned out and as excited as I am about

1168
00:55:52,640 --> 00:55:54,560
Speaker 1: the topic and about the book and about how many

1169
00:55:54,680 --> 00:55:57,000
Speaker 1: people love the book, it definitely like just took a

1170
00:55:57,040 --> 00:55:59,719
Speaker 1: toll on me to like just be on all the time,

1171
00:56:00,120 --> 00:56:02,840
Speaker 1: different cities and like all the things. So I definitely

1172
00:56:02,880 --> 00:56:05,720
Speaker 1: feel like I'm on the upswing now and feeling much better.

1173
00:56:06,200 --> 00:56:07,080
Speaker 3: Good good.

1174
00:56:07,200 --> 00:56:09,360
Speaker 2: I love to hear that. This is another thing, like

1175
00:56:09,400 --> 00:56:12,600
Speaker 2: you radiate joy, like your name. You seem very centered

1176
00:56:12,600 --> 00:56:14,320
Speaker 2: and calm. But even when we were on stage together

1177
00:56:14,400 --> 00:56:16,680
Speaker 2: last year and when you do my show, I don't know,

1178
00:56:16,719 --> 00:56:19,600
Speaker 2: you just always seem like a joyful person. But I

1179
00:56:19,640 --> 00:56:22,120
Speaker 2: think we project that on each other sometimes as black

1180
00:56:22,120 --> 00:56:24,479
Speaker 2: women too, And it's like we have to be better

1181
00:56:24,520 --> 00:56:28,160
Speaker 2: at recognizing when, yes, this person is projecting joy, but

1182
00:56:28,200 --> 00:56:30,239
Speaker 2: my sister might be feeling pain right now, so let

1183
00:56:30,239 --> 00:56:32,040
Speaker 2: me tap into that, let me pull her aside, let

1184
00:56:32,080 --> 00:56:34,000
Speaker 2: me let her hold space with me for.

1185
00:56:34,040 --> 00:56:34,560
Speaker 3: Whatever it is.

1186
00:56:34,600 --> 00:56:37,000
Speaker 2: And sometimes it's like no, girl, I'm good, I'm joyful,

1187
00:56:37,000 --> 00:56:39,200
Speaker 2: and it's like, well tears to that. But then every

1188
00:56:39,239 --> 00:56:41,400
Speaker 2: now and then it's like, yeah, I'm having a hard time,

1189
00:56:41,760 --> 00:56:44,640
Speaker 2: and no problem is too small or too big to

1190
00:56:44,680 --> 00:56:46,520
Speaker 2: talk about. Even for the black women. It's like I

1191
00:56:46,560 --> 00:56:48,880
Speaker 2: don't know you, but I know y'all. Everybody listening right now,

1192
00:56:48,960 --> 00:56:50,880
Speaker 2: I don't know y'all, but I know y'all and y'all

1193
00:56:50,880 --> 00:56:53,440
Speaker 2: know me. So I just love that sisterhood that we

1194
00:56:53,480 --> 00:56:57,360
Speaker 2: have and I'm happy that you are still radiating joy well,

1195
00:56:57,360 --> 00:57:00,319
Speaker 2: thank you for that you have shared so beautif please

1196
00:57:00,360 --> 00:57:02,600
Speaker 2: with us, Tiffany definitely, which I could talk to you

1197
00:57:02,719 --> 00:57:04,600
Speaker 2: all afternoon, but I do not want to take up

1198
00:57:04,600 --> 00:57:05,400
Speaker 2: all of your time.

1199
00:57:06,120 --> 00:57:08,520
Speaker 1: So let us know where we can stay connected with

1200
00:57:08,560 --> 00:57:10,600
Speaker 1: you and what can we be on the lookout for

1201
00:57:10,800 --> 00:57:13,080
Speaker 1: with future episodes of Across Generations.

1202
00:57:13,280 --> 00:57:14,400
Speaker 3: Oh, I'm so excited.

1203
00:57:14,440 --> 00:57:18,520
Speaker 2: Well one, I'm begging everybody please download, listen to tweet

1204
00:57:18,520 --> 00:57:22,200
Speaker 2: about post share dropping your group chat Across Generations. I

1205
00:57:22,320 --> 00:57:23,960
Speaker 2: would love for you all to rate and review the

1206
00:57:23,960 --> 00:57:27,920
Speaker 2: podcast on Apple Podcasts. It is really like my heart's

1207
00:57:27,960 --> 00:57:31,440
Speaker 2: work and we have these types of conversations every week.

1208
00:57:31,600 --> 00:57:34,040
Speaker 2: You can follow us at a Cross Gen podcast on

1209
00:57:34,160 --> 00:57:37,080
Speaker 2: Instagram and you can find us on YouTube. We are

1210
00:57:37,160 --> 00:57:40,160
Speaker 2: an iHeart podcast, but we're available anywhere you get your podcasts.

1211
00:57:40,200 --> 00:57:43,120
Speaker 3: You can follow me at Tiffany d Cross on all.

1212
00:57:42,960 --> 00:57:47,840
Speaker 2: Platforms, on x, Twitter, whatever it's called, Instagram, Facebook, all

1213
00:57:47,840 --> 00:57:48,080
Speaker 2: of it.

1214
00:57:48,280 --> 00:57:49,680
Speaker 3: I'm all over social media.

1215
00:57:50,400 --> 00:57:52,520
Speaker 2: And one episode that we have coming out, so we

1216
00:57:52,560 --> 00:57:56,160
Speaker 2: talked about motherhood, We talked about faith, people who don't

1217
00:57:56,200 --> 00:57:58,520
Speaker 2: go to church as much anymore, and you know, black

1218
00:57:58,520 --> 00:58:00,600
Speaker 2: folks had a whole lot to say about that. That

1219
00:58:00,680 --> 00:58:04,000
Speaker 2: was one of our very engaging and popular episodes. An

1220
00:58:04,000 --> 00:58:07,400
Speaker 2: episode that's coming out that I'm excited about is sex workers,

1221
00:58:08,080 --> 00:58:11,160
Speaker 2: and we have an elder sex worker and a younger

1222
00:58:11,200 --> 00:58:11,840
Speaker 2: sex worker.

1223
00:58:11,920 --> 00:58:15,800
Speaker 3: When you think about it, the elder she walked.

1224
00:58:15,480 --> 00:58:19,680
Speaker 2: Corners, she did porn like money on the nightstand, and

1225
00:58:19,720 --> 00:58:22,440
Speaker 2: the younger is more of an Only Fans star. We

1226
00:58:22,480 --> 00:58:26,320
Speaker 2: have Miss be Nasty joining us who makes like grands

1227
00:58:26,480 --> 00:58:29,800
Speaker 2: every month. I think she makes maybe forty fifty thousand

1228
00:58:29,800 --> 00:58:35,240
Speaker 2: dollars a month on OnlyFans. And my intention in having

1229
00:58:35,240 --> 00:58:38,960
Speaker 2: this conversation was to one humanize them and to understand

1230
00:58:39,000 --> 00:58:42,880
Speaker 2: how as a woman you landed here, and two to

1231
00:58:43,000 --> 00:58:45,560
Speaker 2: talk about the path of sex work and what it

1232
00:58:45,640 --> 00:58:50,400
Speaker 2: might mean to not only decriminalize but destigmatize sex work

1233
00:58:50,440 --> 00:58:54,480
Speaker 2: as well, and basically who they are as people and

1234
00:58:54,520 --> 00:58:58,560
Speaker 2: the racism that they talked about white women get paid

1235
00:58:58,800 --> 00:59:02,840
Speaker 2: more money to have sex with black men in the

1236
00:59:03,000 --> 00:59:07,000
Speaker 2: porn industry, which blows my mind, like wow, and there

1237
00:59:07,080 --> 00:59:09,280
Speaker 2: is no equivalent for black women.

1238
00:59:09,560 --> 00:59:11,080
Speaker 3: And so I just found.

1239
00:59:10,760 --> 00:59:15,240
Speaker 2: It very informative and I wasn't there to judge it

1240
00:59:15,440 --> 00:59:18,480
Speaker 2: or promote it. It was just truly out of curiosity.

1241
00:59:18,680 --> 00:59:21,880
Speaker 2: Who are you as women? And sex work, as we

1242
00:59:21,920 --> 00:59:24,280
Speaker 2: know as Black women, has been a part of our

1243
00:59:24,400 --> 00:59:29,280
Speaker 2: lives since the plantation and how we were even after enslavement,

1244
00:59:29,440 --> 00:59:31,840
Speaker 2: relegated to some of the most dangerous sex work.

1245
00:59:32,320 --> 00:59:34,440
Speaker 3: And so anyway, we unpack and get into a lot

1246
00:59:34,440 --> 00:59:34,640
Speaker 3: of that.

1247
00:59:34,680 --> 00:59:37,760
Speaker 2: Both women were abused and we get into that, but

1248
00:59:37,800 --> 00:59:39,680
Speaker 2: then on the lighter side too. We are doing an

1249
00:59:39,680 --> 00:59:42,080
Speaker 2: episode on the State of R and B and we

1250
00:59:42,120 --> 00:59:44,600
Speaker 2: have the lead singer from Brownstone and we have a

1251
00:59:44,640 --> 00:59:47,640
Speaker 2: young singer. We're doing an episode same state of hip Hop.

1252
00:59:48,000 --> 00:59:50,600
Speaker 2: I'm hoping we'll have rock sane Chante, so stay tuned

1253
00:59:50,640 --> 00:59:54,200
Speaker 2: and a young hip hop artist. We talk about domestic violence,

1254
00:59:54,360 --> 00:59:56,760
Speaker 2: like a woman who went to prison, and it's like

1255
00:59:56,760 --> 00:59:59,440
Speaker 2: what resources were available to her in the eighties versus

1256
00:59:59,480 --> 01:00:02,080
Speaker 2: a woman and what resources are available for now. We

1257
01:00:02,200 --> 01:00:05,320
Speaker 2: really get into everything that you talk about. This is

1258
01:00:05,520 --> 01:00:07,560
Speaker 2: with older black women and younger Black women and me.

1259
01:00:08,200 --> 01:00:10,720
Speaker 2: We get into a lot. This is my labor. I love,

1260
01:00:10,760 --> 01:00:11,240
Speaker 2: Doctor Joy.

1261
01:00:11,360 --> 01:00:12,560
Speaker 3: Really is it? Truly is?

1262
01:00:12,680 --> 01:00:15,560
Speaker 2: I hope people will tune in like I do everything

1263
01:00:15,640 --> 01:00:16,720
Speaker 2: I built it for us.

1264
01:00:17,000 --> 01:00:19,760
Speaker 1: Indeed, well those sound fascinating, so I definitely hope that

1265
01:00:19,800 --> 01:00:22,560
Speaker 1: people will tune in. We will be sure to include

1266
01:00:22,600 --> 01:00:24,240
Speaker 1: all of that in the show notes. Thank you so

1267
01:00:24,320 --> 01:00:26,360
Speaker 1: much for spending some time with me today, Tiffany.

1268
01:00:26,720 --> 01:00:29,400
Speaker 2: Thank you, Doctor Joy. It's been a pleasure and a delight.

1269
01:00:29,480 --> 01:00:30,920
Speaker 2: I really appreciate you having me.

1270
01:00:31,360 --> 01:00:36,840
Speaker 1: Thank you. I'm so glad Tiffany was able to join

1271
01:00:36,880 --> 01:00:39,520
Speaker 1: me for this conversation. To learn more about her and

1272
01:00:39,560 --> 01:00:41,720
Speaker 1: her work, be sure to visit the show notes at

1273
01:00:41,720 --> 01:00:45,040
Speaker 1: Therapy for Blackgirls dot com slash Session three sixty one,

1274
01:00:45,840 --> 01:00:47,920
Speaker 1: and don't forget to text this episode to two of

1275
01:00:47,920 --> 01:00:51,360
Speaker 1: your girls right now. If you're looking for a therapist

1276
01:00:51,440 --> 01:00:54,760
Speaker 1: in your area, visit our therapist directory at Therapy for

1277
01:00:54,840 --> 01:00:58,120
Speaker 1: Blackgirls dot com slash directory. And if you want to

1278
01:00:58,120 --> 01:01:01,080
Speaker 1: continue digging into this topic, just be in community with

1279
01:01:01,160 --> 01:01:03,680
Speaker 1: other sisters. Come on over and join us in the

1280
01:01:03,720 --> 01:01:07,200
Speaker 1: sister circle. It's our cozy corner of the Internet designed

1281
01:01:07,320 --> 01:01:10,280
Speaker 1: just for black women. You can join us at Community

1282
01:01:10,360 --> 01:01:14,800
Speaker 1: dot Therapy for blackgirls dot com. This episode was produced

1283
01:01:14,800 --> 01:01:18,640
Speaker 1: by Alice Ellis and Zaria Taylor. Editing was done by

1284
01:01:18,640 --> 01:01:22,320
Speaker 1: Dennison Bradford. Thank y'all so much for joining me again

1285
01:01:22,360 --> 01:01:25,640
Speaker 1: this week. I look forward to continuing this conversation with

1286
01:01:25,720 --> 01:01:26,920
Speaker 1: you all real soon.

1287
01:01:27,440 --> 01:01:32,200
Speaker 3: Take care, what's