WEBVTT - Markets Wrap: Gold Rallies, AI Briefly Blows Up and the UK Market Still Needs Saving

0:00:02.759 --> 0:00:19.440
<v Speaker 1>Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. Welcome to the Marine Talks,

0:00:19.440 --> 0:00:21.520
<v Speaker 1>Money market rap. What we talk about the biggest news

0:00:21.520 --> 0:00:23.959
<v Speaker 1>in the markets this weekend? What is driving them? My

0:00:24.040 --> 0:00:26.600
<v Speaker 1>Marine sums at Web UK Money editor at Large.

0:00:26.920 --> 0:00:29.440
<v Speaker 2>I'm Joinstad, senior reports and author of them. I need

0:00:29.440 --> 0:00:30.320
<v Speaker 2>to steal newsletter.

0:00:31.120 --> 0:00:33.360
<v Speaker 1>All right, John, I've made a terrible mistake. I went

0:00:33.400 --> 0:00:34.000
<v Speaker 1>on holiday.

0:00:34.600 --> 0:00:35.599
<v Speaker 2>Yes, yes.

0:00:37.200 --> 0:00:38.760
<v Speaker 1>I know, and not only did I leave you to

0:00:38.840 --> 0:00:41.280
<v Speaker 1>all sorts of things about yourself and let's end, let's

0:00:41.280 --> 0:00:43.920
<v Speaker 1>podcast alone. And I'm slightly concerned that someone might suddenly

0:00:43.920 --> 0:00:45.519
<v Speaker 1>look around and go, why do we need her? He

0:00:45.640 --> 0:00:47.880
<v Speaker 1>seems to do it just fine. But I'm hoping that

0:00:47.920 --> 0:00:50.599
<v Speaker 1>won't happen. And you'll back me up if anyone says anything.

0:00:50.760 --> 0:00:52.840
<v Speaker 2>You've seen them in here. I've lost in the last week.

0:00:52.880 --> 0:00:55.440
<v Speaker 2>I think it's fairly safe to see that your job

0:00:55.560 --> 0:00:56.120
<v Speaker 2>is safe.

0:00:56.440 --> 0:00:58.720
<v Speaker 1>Yes, we just need to practice. You need to practice.

0:00:58.720 --> 0:01:01.920
<v Speaker 1>Say things like I can't do it without her. She's vital,

0:01:02.160 --> 0:01:04.480
<v Speaker 1>that kind of thing. Anyway. The problem is that while

0:01:04.480 --> 0:01:07.520
<v Speaker 1>I've been away, so much has happened. So much has

0:01:07.560 --> 0:01:10.360
<v Speaker 1>happened that I'm not even quite sure where I am anymore.

0:01:10.480 --> 0:01:14.440
<v Speaker 2>It's been busy, yeah, a few weeks, but it mostly

0:01:14.480 --> 0:01:18.600
<v Speaker 2>boils down to we guy borrowed too much money to

0:01:18.760 --> 0:01:21.720
<v Speaker 2>bet on the I stalks and blew up his hedge fund.

0:01:22.880 --> 0:01:25.200
<v Speaker 2>A hole load of South Koreans borrowed too much to

0:01:25.200 --> 0:01:27.840
<v Speaker 2>bet on the ice stocks and blew up their stock market.

0:01:28.440 --> 0:01:31.560
<v Speaker 2>But now everything's basically fine because everyone thinks that the

0:01:31.600 --> 0:01:35.520
<v Speaker 2>Federal Reserve is biased towards cutting interest rates or at

0:01:35.600 --> 0:01:38.280
<v Speaker 2>least keeping them where they are. And so now the

0:01:38.319 --> 0:01:42.240
<v Speaker 2>market's getting all excited again because in their heads all

0:01:42.280 --> 0:01:44.920
<v Speaker 2>the leverages out, which is not true at all. But

0:01:45.240 --> 0:01:49.080
<v Speaker 2>this overheaning of the idea is kind of going to

0:01:49.120 --> 0:01:52.720
<v Speaker 2>an extent. And meanwhile the feed is quite reluctant to

0:01:52.840 --> 0:01:56.680
<v Speaker 2>these interest rates. And you've also got Scott Bessing, the

0:01:56.760 --> 0:02:02.640
<v Speaker 2>US Treasury Secretary, trying to be basicly nudge Japan anti

0:02:02.720 --> 0:02:07.280
<v Speaker 2>holding on into its US government debt and so keep

0:02:07.360 --> 0:02:14.560
<v Speaker 2>intro streets kind of capped and hence easiest monetary policy campaigned.

0:02:14.600 --> 0:02:17.960
<v Speaker 2>We you know, some people up, but we'll see if

0:02:18.360 --> 0:02:20.920
<v Speaker 2>means everyone's excited. Oh yeah, and Ryan I ran.

0:02:22.320 --> 0:02:24.560
<v Speaker 1>Back in politics.

0:02:24.840 --> 0:02:28.960
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, okay, anyway, so that was a very gaalpeled No

0:02:29.080 --> 0:02:29.320
<v Speaker 2>that was.

0:02:29.520 --> 0:02:31.880
<v Speaker 1>That was a great summary. Word has happened. So basically

0:02:32.720 --> 0:02:37.040
<v Speaker 1>everything is pretty much as it was when I left. Yeah, actually, yeah,

0:02:37.639 --> 0:02:39.799
<v Speaker 1>the last two weeks are kind of irrelevant. Yeah, it's

0:02:39.800 --> 0:02:43.240
<v Speaker 1>basically it's back to the exuberance. Back to exuberance, back

0:02:43.240 --> 0:02:46.200
<v Speaker 1>to momentum, back to interest rates are going to stay low.

0:02:46.280 --> 0:02:49.919
<v Speaker 1>Everything's going to be fine. Back to AI is the dream.

0:02:50.080 --> 0:02:53.280
<v Speaker 1>Everyone's earnings are going to go berserk forever and it's

0:02:53.320 --> 0:02:55.400
<v Speaker 1>going to brickichet out through the economy and we don't

0:02:55.440 --> 0:02:59.000
<v Speaker 1>need to worry about anything until we are suddenly made extinct.

0:02:59.360 --> 0:03:03.280
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I see, Yeah, I think that's biasly it good

0:03:03.840 --> 0:03:07.040
<v Speaker 2>business is usual business is you should go on holiday

0:03:07.040 --> 0:03:08.880
<v Speaker 2>more often you come back.

0:03:08.960 --> 0:03:12.200
<v Speaker 1>That's changed, everything has changed, and nothing has changed.

0:03:12.960 --> 0:03:15.880
<v Speaker 2>I did feel so this this week. Guy Leonard ash

0:03:15.960 --> 0:03:19.320
<v Speaker 2>and Berger I think was his name, But so he's

0:03:19.680 --> 0:03:21.840
<v Speaker 2>he's ended up blowing up his hedge fund like the

0:03:21.960 --> 0:03:26.000
<v Speaker 2>night before he gets married. And then, I mean, to

0:03:26.000 --> 0:03:28.200
<v Speaker 2>be fair, he lived to fight another day. I mean,

0:03:28.200 --> 0:03:31.560
<v Speaker 2>because he owns private steakes and all the big companies,

0:03:31.560 --> 0:03:33.760
<v Speaker 2>but he also owned a load of public stuff and

0:03:33.800 --> 0:03:35.880
<v Speaker 2>based on what happened is that he got kind of

0:03:35.920 --> 0:03:39.400
<v Speaker 2>margin called because he borrowed too much. And then Ken Griffin,

0:03:39.480 --> 0:03:41.720
<v Speaker 2>who is like a hedge fund tycoon and obviously a

0:03:41.760 --> 0:03:44.760
<v Speaker 2>guy who's been around the block quite a lot, clearly

0:03:45.000 --> 0:03:47.440
<v Speaker 2>said to him, Okay, son, I can buy your public

0:03:47.440 --> 0:03:50.040
<v Speaker 2>equities off you, but you're going to have to give

0:03:50.080 --> 0:03:53.440
<v Speaker 2>me them for a significant discount, presumable. That's what happened.

0:03:53.760 --> 0:03:58.480
<v Speaker 2>So they did the deal, and he's fund has effectively survived.

0:03:59.320 --> 0:04:01.920
<v Speaker 2>Apparently today he dropped another half a billion in one

0:04:01.960 --> 0:04:04.480
<v Speaker 2>of the private companies and he's.

0:04:04.520 --> 0:04:08.360
<v Speaker 1>So people are still giving him money and his new

0:04:08.400 --> 0:04:10.120
<v Speaker 1>wife doesn't have cause to think she might have made

0:04:10.120 --> 0:04:11.000
<v Speaker 1>a terrible mistake.

0:04:11.560 --> 0:04:13.800
<v Speaker 2>No, no, no, I mean it need to be fair.

0:04:13.800 --> 0:04:15.520
<v Speaker 2>If you can do something like that, you should do

0:04:15.520 --> 0:04:17.600
<v Speaker 2>it in your twenties because that will stop you from

0:04:17.640 --> 0:04:18.640
<v Speaker 2>doing it in your forties.

0:04:19.120 --> 0:04:21.960
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and the wedding venue still had all its bills paid.

0:04:21.720 --> 0:04:25.200
<v Speaker 2>So everything, yeah exactly ends well, or is it?

0:04:26.040 --> 0:04:27.839
<v Speaker 1>Or is it exactly? But the people you should worry

0:04:27.839 --> 0:04:31.800
<v Speaker 1>about more. I had this conversation in another podcast earlier

0:04:31.800 --> 0:04:33.200
<v Speaker 1>in the week. The people you should worry about it?

0:04:33.200 --> 0:04:36.080
<v Speaker 1>Of course, it's the Korean retail investor caught up in

0:04:36.120 --> 0:04:39.680
<v Speaker 1>a momentum rally in astoria is as old as market history,

0:04:39.760 --> 0:04:42.799
<v Speaker 1>right over and over and over again. The retail investor

0:04:43.200 --> 0:04:45.919
<v Speaker 1>ends up getting pulled into her she's momentum rally with

0:04:45.960 --> 0:04:47.800
<v Speaker 1>borrowed money, they get a margin call, and it all

0:04:47.839 --> 0:04:48.839
<v Speaker 1>collapses around them.

0:04:48.960 --> 0:04:52.360
<v Speaker 2>On the one hand, there's all that personal responsibility stuff.

0:04:52.400 --> 0:04:56.120
<v Speaker 2>On the other hand, you know, you kind of launch

0:04:56.200 --> 0:05:01.880
<v Speaker 2>these two times leverage single stock ETFs a bull market,

0:05:02.279 --> 0:05:08.480
<v Speaker 2>and you know, I I just think that sometimes the

0:05:08.520 --> 0:05:11.160
<v Speaker 2>spade that's going against me a libertarian, I think guardriols

0:05:11.160 --> 0:05:12.880
<v Speaker 2>are there for a reason, and if you're going to

0:05:12.880 --> 0:05:15.560
<v Speaker 2>have them, then they should actually be imposed and play.

0:05:15.640 --> 0:05:19.040
<v Speaker 2>The regulator should have at some point before these were launched, said,

0:05:19.080 --> 0:05:20.799
<v Speaker 2>hang on a minute, this isn't a good idea.

0:05:21.400 --> 0:05:23.640
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I mean, it is definitely the case. You get

0:05:23.680 --> 0:05:27.039
<v Speaker 1>caught in these momentum ranis towards the end and you

0:05:27.120 --> 0:05:29.360
<v Speaker 1>do make permanent capital losses, don't you.

0:05:29.440 --> 0:05:30.600
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, stuff.

0:05:30.360 --> 0:05:32.680
<v Speaker 1>Doesn't necessarily come back. You don't get saved.

0:05:32.920 --> 0:05:35.520
<v Speaker 2>And it's fine if you're you know, in your twenties

0:05:35.600 --> 0:05:37.400
<v Speaker 2>and you can play make it back, But if you

0:05:37.400 --> 0:05:39.640
<v Speaker 2>are in your forties or lost though somewhere on the

0:05:39.760 --> 0:05:42.920
<v Speaker 2>retirement then that's a significant problem.

0:05:43.400 --> 0:05:45.800
<v Speaker 1>The interesting one is gold, right, and that we'd be

0:05:45.839 --> 0:05:49.279
<v Speaker 1>obviously we follow God relentlessly here and silver and having

0:05:49.320 --> 0:05:51.520
<v Speaker 1>had a very torrent time falling off their highs, then

0:05:51.600 --> 0:05:54.440
<v Speaker 1>I both bouncing back quite quite nicely. And I assume,

0:05:54.480 --> 0:05:58.440
<v Speaker 1>as you said earlier, that's partly to do with interest rates.

0:05:58.600 --> 0:06:01.799
<v Speaker 1>It's partly to do would you politics. I think central

0:06:01.839 --> 0:06:04.400
<v Speaker 1>banks are still buying, So the current central bank has

0:06:04.400 --> 0:06:06.360
<v Speaker 1>been buying, et cetera. So the story that we were

0:06:06.400 --> 0:06:09.640
<v Speaker 1>hearing and telling at the beginning of the year remained

0:06:09.800 --> 0:06:10.800
<v Speaker 1>basically intact.

0:06:11.240 --> 0:06:15.719
<v Speaker 2>I was talking to Simon White, who's the Bloomberd macro

0:06:15.800 --> 0:06:19.040
<v Speaker 2>strategies for one of the podcasts while You're Away, and

0:06:19.080 --> 0:06:21.279
<v Speaker 2>he was kind of making the point and a degreebium

0:06:21.320 --> 0:06:25.240
<v Speaker 2>that obviously gold had reached that it had become a

0:06:25.279 --> 0:06:28.159
<v Speaker 2>momentum trade at the start of the year, so a

0:06:28.200 --> 0:06:30.440
<v Speaker 2>lot of that needed to be blowing off anyway. But

0:06:30.520 --> 0:06:33.560
<v Speaker 2>then you've got Iran breaking out, you get the fear

0:06:33.640 --> 0:06:36.040
<v Speaker 2>that inflation's going to go up there for interest rates

0:06:36.080 --> 0:06:38.120
<v Speaker 2>are going to go up, and you kind of notice

0:06:38.160 --> 0:06:42.000
<v Speaker 2>that gold's basically unusually traded in the opposite direction at

0:06:42.040 --> 0:06:45.680
<v Speaker 2>oil since the war's been going on. So I think

0:06:45.720 --> 0:06:48.359
<v Speaker 2>that definitely this week that I mean, they kind of

0:06:48.400 --> 0:06:51.240
<v Speaker 2>cease fire coming back and they play helped. But I

0:06:51.279 --> 0:06:55.359
<v Speaker 2>do think it's this thing of people deciding that the

0:06:55.800 --> 0:06:59.320
<v Speaker 2>Kevin Walsh fed is going to be an easy money wan.

0:07:00.200 --> 0:07:03.520
<v Speaker 2>I mean, I mean a lot of that is on

0:07:03.839 --> 0:07:08.000
<v Speaker 2>the basis I think more of their own kind of

0:07:08.000 --> 0:07:10.640
<v Speaker 2>wishful thinking, our biases. I mean, I think they're very right,

0:07:10.720 --> 0:07:14.960
<v Speaker 2>but I'm not sure where the kind of fool evidence

0:07:15.000 --> 0:07:17.600
<v Speaker 2>for this is. But you know, it kind of seems

0:07:17.600 --> 0:07:19.480
<v Speaker 2>to make sense, and everyone's happy with that story.

0:07:19.600 --> 0:07:24.640
<v Speaker 1>So but that's a treasure. Ills are still high, aren't they.

0:07:25.120 --> 0:07:26.920
<v Speaker 1>And that's the other thing that happened when I was away.

0:07:27.040 --> 0:07:30.440
<v Speaker 1>So this sharp rise, relatively sharp rise in treasury ill Yeah,

0:07:30.480 --> 0:07:30.840
<v Speaker 1>I mean.

0:07:30.760 --> 0:07:33.280
<v Speaker 2>I think that. I guess I says one reason why

0:07:33.480 --> 0:07:36.200
<v Speaker 2>why people are starting they make the easy money connection,

0:07:36.360 --> 0:07:40.720
<v Speaker 2>because we've got Scott Person, the US equivalent of the

0:07:40.840 --> 0:07:44.440
<v Speaker 2>Chancellor kind of going out to Japan and getting together

0:07:44.440 --> 0:07:46.960
<v Speaker 2>with the Japanese Chancellor and saying we're not going to

0:07:47.040 --> 0:07:51.560
<v Speaker 2>let the en get any weaker. And the whole US

0:07:51.680 --> 0:07:56.640
<v Speaker 2>angle there is Japan's the largest foreign holder the US treasuries.

0:07:57.000 --> 0:08:00.000
<v Speaker 2>If Japan is getting stressed about the n being way,

0:08:00.200 --> 0:08:02.440
<v Speaker 2>which it is because the voters are starting to get

0:08:02.600 --> 0:08:03.720
<v Speaker 2>irritated by inflation.

0:08:04.360 --> 0:08:06.360
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, they didn't mind a little bit of inflation, but

0:08:06.480 --> 0:08:06.800
<v Speaker 1>not too.

0:08:06.800 --> 0:08:09.720
<v Speaker 2>Much, yeah, exactly, especially after being I mean, that's the

0:08:09.760 --> 0:08:12.880
<v Speaker 2>other interesting about that is it shows just how agreeable

0:08:13.200 --> 0:08:17.400
<v Speaker 2>mild deflation is for consumers. It might make everyone else miserable,

0:08:17.480 --> 0:08:20.000
<v Speaker 2>but you know, the Japanese people have been pretty happy

0:08:20.320 --> 0:08:23.760
<v Speaker 2>I think for the despite the lost decades and all

0:08:23.800 --> 0:08:27.280
<v Speaker 2>the rest of it. But so getting back to the

0:08:27.320 --> 0:08:30.760
<v Speaker 2>point about the weekend, if the Japanese need to defend

0:08:30.760 --> 0:08:32.640
<v Speaker 2>the end, and one way to do it is to

0:08:32.679 --> 0:08:36.360
<v Speaker 2>sell US treasuries, and of course what Besson's done, as

0:08:36.400 --> 0:08:38.880
<v Speaker 2>he said, look, rather than selling the treasuries, you can

0:08:38.960 --> 0:08:43.080
<v Speaker 2>use them as collateral with the FED to borrow US dollars,

0:08:43.320 --> 0:08:47.040
<v Speaker 2>which you can then you know, sell and strengthen the

0:08:47.120 --> 0:08:49.760
<v Speaker 2>end that way, and it means that you don't end

0:08:49.840 --> 0:08:52.040
<v Speaker 2>up driving up the yield on US treasuries. So the

0:08:52.080 --> 0:08:56.280
<v Speaker 2>fact that they're worried about that, I think is kind

0:08:56.280 --> 0:08:59.040
<v Speaker 2>of tipping people back towards the kind of financial repression

0:09:00.040 --> 0:09:03.559
<v Speaker 2>PAM argument against a positive of gold.

0:09:17.000 --> 0:09:20.160
<v Speaker 1>I suppose speaking of financial oppression and you're you're a

0:09:20.200 --> 0:09:21.960
<v Speaker 1>desperate desire for there to be more of it in

0:09:22.000 --> 0:09:27.160
<v Speaker 1>the UK, right, or for people to be people to

0:09:27.200 --> 0:09:29.240
<v Speaker 1>be forced to say thank you for their tax relief

0:09:29.280 --> 0:09:34.880
<v Speaker 1>inside their rapids by buying, by buying appression, not quite

0:09:35.040 --> 0:09:39.200
<v Speaker 1>financial oppression, but it's a similar it's a similar thing,

0:09:39.360 --> 0:09:42.200
<v Speaker 1>you know, being forced to do particular things with your money.

0:09:42.200 --> 0:09:43.559
<v Speaker 1>And I agree with you on this, by the way,

0:09:43.640 --> 0:09:45.680
<v Speaker 1>I agree with you. I think it should happen, but

0:09:45.880 --> 0:09:49.000
<v Speaker 1>it does fall under the wider umbrella of financial oppression

0:09:49.040 --> 0:09:51.680
<v Speaker 1>every time you are and it's not quite forced, is it,

0:09:51.760 --> 0:09:55.160
<v Speaker 1>but heavily nuts not doing something. It's a type of it.

0:09:56.360 --> 0:10:01.640
<v Speaker 2>Doesn't know we're talking about pushing domestic savers money into

0:10:01.679 --> 0:10:06.080
<v Speaker 2>the UK stock market and doing it by restricting tax breaks,

0:10:06.080 --> 0:10:08.959
<v Speaker 2>are making them a bit less generous and a bit

0:10:09.040 --> 0:10:12.760
<v Speaker 2>less widespread, or even just making better once for investing

0:10:12.760 --> 0:10:15.080
<v Speaker 2>in the UK. But I think the difference for this,

0:10:15.120 --> 0:10:16.920
<v Speaker 2>and that's the one person who changed my mind on this,

0:10:17.040 --> 0:10:20.040
<v Speaker 2>with Simon French over at Panier Liborom who's quite often

0:10:20.080 --> 0:10:23.199
<v Speaker 2>on a podcast, and this point was just that it

0:10:23.200 --> 0:10:24.880
<v Speaker 2>would be one thing if everyone else did it the

0:10:24.880 --> 0:10:26.959
<v Speaker 2>way we do it, but they don't. You know, it's

0:10:27.000 --> 0:10:31.280
<v Speaker 2>kind of we've basically unilaterally disarmed and you can't really

0:10:31.840 --> 0:10:35.040
<v Speaker 2>do that in a world where capital is kind of

0:10:35.360 --> 0:10:39.760
<v Speaker 2>pretty free flowing still and then expect the not to

0:10:39.800 --> 0:10:42.880
<v Speaker 2>be consequences. So if we want to have a stock

0:10:42.960 --> 0:10:46.439
<v Speaker 2>market left and I do, I think increasingly, I really do,

0:10:46.520 --> 0:10:50.120
<v Speaker 2>mean that's you need a source of long term domestic

0:10:50.160 --> 0:10:53.760
<v Speaker 2>capital because otherwise it's just short term money and passive

0:10:53.840 --> 0:11:00.280
<v Speaker 2>funds and private equity predators basically, and it's getting you know,

0:11:01.080 --> 0:11:05.360
<v Speaker 2>I mean two stocks today, two fifty stocks today gone

0:11:05.640 --> 0:11:08.040
<v Speaker 2>going pretty much on.

0:11:08.000 --> 0:11:10.160
<v Speaker 1>The plus side. That means that fifty has been on

0:11:10.200 --> 0:11:11.760
<v Speaker 1>the face of it very well.

0:11:11.960 --> 0:11:13.840
<v Speaker 2>Absolutely, it's hit a new records.

0:11:13.679 --> 0:11:16.000
<v Speaker 1>Silver linings, silver Linings.

0:11:16.320 --> 0:11:18.000
<v Speaker 2>The good time of this is is kind of a

0:11:18.040 --> 0:11:23.200
<v Speaker 2>win win for for private investors in the in the

0:11:23.240 --> 0:11:26.360
<v Speaker 2>short term. But you know, you ow in the UK

0:11:26.520 --> 0:11:28.640
<v Speaker 2>and if ends up just being an investment trust that's

0:11:28.679 --> 0:11:32.120
<v Speaker 2>closing down and like we're dating it now, have been great, okay,

0:11:32.160 --> 0:11:35.720
<v Speaker 2>so you you profit from the discount closing, but preferably

0:11:36.480 --> 0:11:40.079
<v Speaker 2>it would be turned back into an actual machine that

0:11:40.920 --> 0:11:44.920
<v Speaker 2>enables companies to grow and you know, rewards companies for

0:11:45.040 --> 0:11:49.280
<v Speaker 2>long term value creation rather than just kicking them around

0:11:49.440 --> 0:11:52.040
<v Speaker 2>based on short term moves elsewhere.

0:11:52.480 --> 0:11:54.800
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, And what we'd really like to say, of course,

0:11:54.920 --> 0:11:59.319
<v Speaker 1>is stamp duty being abolished so that you can trade

0:11:59.400 --> 0:12:01.920
<v Speaker 1>equities tax free in the UK like you can pretty

0:12:01.960 --> 0:12:04.320
<v Speaker 1>much everywhere else in the world. But it's a difficult

0:12:04.520 --> 0:12:07.440
<v Speaker 1>political environment that that, isn't it, because people will will

0:12:07.640 --> 0:12:11.640
<v Speaker 1>present that as a tax relief for the rich, getting

0:12:11.679 --> 0:12:14.000
<v Speaker 1>that pretty much everyone in the UK is an equity

0:12:14.000 --> 0:12:16.280
<v Speaker 1>investor via their defined contribution pension.

0:12:16.480 --> 0:12:18.600
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I mean I think the problem is with that

0:12:18.760 --> 0:12:21.120
<v Speaker 2>is Yeah, that's purely calm because the actual amount of

0:12:21.160 --> 0:12:23.840
<v Speaker 2>money is about bout three and a half billion nothing,

0:12:24.160 --> 0:12:26.280
<v Speaker 2>and there is buttons and it's going to automatically get

0:12:26.320 --> 0:12:29.640
<v Speaker 2>lower because the bigger companies, I mean, Astrosenic has already

0:12:30.200 --> 0:12:33.000
<v Speaker 2>got a dual lesson in the US that effectively means

0:12:33.440 --> 0:12:36.600
<v Speaker 2>nobody does actually have to pay that duty and you

0:12:36.600 --> 0:12:38.640
<v Speaker 2>can see you know, other companies doing.

0:12:39.040 --> 0:12:40.600
<v Speaker 1>That's bad happening with glen Core, isn't it.

0:12:41.280 --> 0:12:43.839
<v Speaker 2>Well, I don't know if I mean, Glen's going to

0:12:43.880 --> 0:12:46.600
<v Speaker 2>get a secondary lesson in Australia, and I guess I say,

0:12:46.640 --> 0:12:49.040
<v Speaker 2>you're right, probably I probably could be. It couldn't.

0:12:49.120 --> 0:12:53.920
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, everyone world, Well, yeah, why would you not? Why

0:12:53.920 --> 0:12:56.679
<v Speaker 1>would you pay half a percent every time you buy

0:12:56.720 --> 0:12:58.319
<v Speaker 1>and sell it and did in the UK and you

0:12:58.320 --> 0:12:59.800
<v Speaker 1>could just do it somewhere else and not pay that.

0:13:00.600 --> 0:13:02.559
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, And I mean I suppose that important thing is

0:13:02.600 --> 0:13:04.440
<v Speaker 2>the more foots one hundred companies that do it. They

0:13:04.480 --> 0:13:07.080
<v Speaker 2>are we are mostly the stamp duty comes from. I

0:13:07.080 --> 0:13:10.080
<v Speaker 2>think Astra alone accounted for something like two hundred million

0:13:10.280 --> 0:13:13.480
<v Speaker 2>out of the three point five billion, So it's going

0:13:13.520 --> 0:13:17.120
<v Speaker 2>to be a diminishing take anyway. But yeah, the problem

0:13:17.200 --> 0:13:20.719
<v Speaker 2>with doing it is that it looks lighter. Sorry, it's

0:13:20.800 --> 0:13:23.120
<v Speaker 2>very easy to paint it as a tax cut for

0:13:23.360 --> 0:13:25.400
<v Speaker 2>the rich, which of course it just isn't.

0:13:26.520 --> 0:13:28.599
<v Speaker 1>That's like all politics in the UK, isn't it a

0:13:28.760 --> 0:13:30.360
<v Speaker 1>politics comes.

0:13:30.840 --> 0:13:33.720
<v Speaker 2>Well, you know it's kind of pathetic, isn't it? By

0:13:33.800 --> 0:13:38.200
<v Speaker 2>storytelling and the like? You know, storytelling isn't true, which

0:13:38.240 --> 0:13:41.160
<v Speaker 2>is the other big problem.

0:13:41.200 --> 0:13:42.640
<v Speaker 1>Should we had done something positive?

0:13:43.440 --> 0:13:48.080
<v Speaker 2>Oh no, it's always the demand for positivity. When when

0:13:48.080 --> 0:13:51.240
<v Speaker 2>do we ever give you a positivity? Come on, I

0:13:51.280 --> 0:13:51.719
<v Speaker 2>said that.

0:13:51.880 --> 0:13:53.720
<v Speaker 1>Now I'm trying to think of something.

0:13:56.360 --> 0:13:59.320
<v Speaker 2>Well, the Edinburgh Show is sold out and that's quite Yeah.

0:14:00.120 --> 0:14:02.160
<v Speaker 1>Is that is very positive. You can come to the

0:14:02.160 --> 0:14:03.480
<v Speaker 1>show as you can't come to the show if you

0:14:03.480 --> 0:14:05.760
<v Speaker 1>haven't got a ticket, but you could conceivably come to

0:14:05.760 --> 0:14:07.400
<v Speaker 1>the show if you do have a ticket, and then

0:14:07.400 --> 0:14:10.040
<v Speaker 1>you can listen to us saying negative things in person.

0:14:10.360 --> 0:14:14.040
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, but it's positive because there's an appetad for the

0:14:14.080 --> 0:14:17.480
<v Speaker 2>wisdom of Adam Smith, even two hundred and fifty years later.

0:14:18.040 --> 0:14:21.320
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah, I see there are there's a waiting list

0:14:21.400 --> 0:14:23.200
<v Speaker 1>for Thursday, and I think there's a waiting list for

0:14:23.240 --> 0:14:25.360
<v Speaker 1>the Friday show for those who don't listen to our

0:14:25.360 --> 0:14:27.040
<v Speaker 1>show all the time. We're talking about our show the

0:14:27.160 --> 0:14:29.040
<v Speaker 1>Edinburgh Fringe, which is on for three days at the

0:14:29.120 --> 0:14:31.160
<v Speaker 1>end of the month, where John and I chat with

0:14:31.160 --> 0:14:32.960
<v Speaker 1>a variety of people about a variety of things, and

0:14:33.000 --> 0:14:35.720
<v Speaker 1>it's a hood, it's a hood. There's a waiting list

0:14:35.720 --> 0:14:37.080
<v Speaker 1>for a couple of days, and then I think there

0:14:37.080 --> 0:14:39.520
<v Speaker 1>are a few tickets left for the Saturday if you rush. Well,

0:14:39.560 --> 0:14:42.040
<v Speaker 1>there was six yesterday, but I imagine they're gone by now,

0:14:42.040 --> 0:14:43.160
<v Speaker 1>but you know, you could give it a go.

0:14:43.640 --> 0:14:46.440
<v Speaker 2>I mean, it's a positive. Do you think Oasis stale

0:14:46.520 --> 0:14:49.240
<v Speaker 2>dynamic pricing is the way forward here. I mean, I'm

0:14:49.240 --> 0:14:53.120
<v Speaker 2>not trying to, you know, goge the market control.

0:14:55.160 --> 0:14:56.520
<v Speaker 1>But you know what would happen, John, You know what

0:14:56.560 --> 0:14:59.960
<v Speaker 1>would happen right if we did dynamic pricing. It wouldn't

0:15:00.200 --> 0:15:02.400
<v Speaker 1>long before Andy Burnham announced that we were making too

0:15:02.440 --> 0:15:04.080
<v Speaker 1>much money and that we're gonna have to cap our

0:15:04.160 --> 0:15:04.960
<v Speaker 1>ticket prices.

0:15:06.760 --> 0:15:08.560
<v Speaker 2>So then you can say you were bringing great things

0:15:08.560 --> 0:15:13.359
<v Speaker 2>to the actual North, the real North.

0:15:13.760 --> 0:15:16.440
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it's extraordinary, isn't it? From Manchester suddenly it became

0:15:16.480 --> 0:15:18.640
<v Speaker 1>the North. I don't know anyway, that takes us off

0:15:18.640 --> 0:15:21.120
<v Speaker 1>another rabbit hole, not starting on that one. Gonna have

0:15:21.200 --> 0:15:24.000
<v Speaker 1>to stop anyway. So basically there, if we were to

0:15:24.120 --> 0:15:27.880
<v Speaker 1>summarize the last two weeks, a lot happened, but in

0:15:27.920 --> 0:15:29.520
<v Speaker 1>the end kind of nothing happened. Is that fair?

0:15:29.720 --> 0:15:30.320
<v Speaker 2>Yeah?

0:15:31.600 --> 0:15:38.800
<v Speaker 1>Excellent. Thanks for listening to this week's Marin Talks Money,

0:15:38.800 --> 0:15:40.840
<v Speaker 1>Markets Rap. If you like our show, rate review and

0:15:40.880 --> 0:15:43.320
<v Speaker 1>subscribe where every listen to podcasts. Also, be sure to

0:15:43.320 --> 0:15:45.640
<v Speaker 1>follow me and John on ex or Twitter at marinas

0:15:45.760 --> 0:15:49.720
<v Speaker 1>w and John Underscore Stuff. This episode was produced by Summersadi,

0:15:49.800 --> 0:15:52.760
<v Speaker 1>Moses and Jennifer Seely. Questions and comments on this show

0:15:52.760 --> 0:15:55.160
<v Speaker 1>and all Our shows are always welcome. Our show email

0:15:55.280 --> 0:16:04.320
<v Speaker 1>is Merror Money at Bloomberg dot net