1 00:00:02,279 --> 00:00:05,560 Speaker 1: Happy Saturday, everybody. We have a new podcast coming out 2 00:00:05,600 --> 00:00:10,080 Speaker 1: on our network. It's called Unpopular and it is about resistors, revolutionaries, 3 00:00:10,080 --> 00:00:13,560 Speaker 1: and other people who challenge the status quo. Eve's Jeff 4 00:00:13,600 --> 00:00:16,120 Speaker 1: co will be hosting the show, and listeners may already 5 00:00:16,160 --> 00:00:18,200 Speaker 1: know her from this day in History Class and we 6 00:00:18,239 --> 00:00:21,159 Speaker 1: are both really excited about it, Yes for sure. And 7 00:00:21,200 --> 00:00:23,360 Speaker 1: in the spirit of that theme, today we are returning 8 00:00:23,360 --> 00:00:26,360 Speaker 1: to lash Me By Ronnie of John c and her 9 00:00:26,440 --> 00:00:29,120 Speaker 1: role in the Indian Rebellion of eighteen fifty seven, which 10 00:00:29,160 --> 00:00:32,600 Speaker 1: is also known as India's First War of Independence. This 11 00:00:32,640 --> 00:00:35,879 Speaker 1: episode is from March of eleven with hosts Sarah and 12 00:00:35,960 --> 00:00:38,440 Speaker 1: Bablina and then Holly and I also talked about the 13 00:00:38,479 --> 00:00:41,400 Speaker 1: rebellion back in August of seen, but in that episode 14 00:00:41,400 --> 00:00:43,480 Speaker 1: we didn't talk about locked me By or her role 15 00:00:44,120 --> 00:00:46,400 Speaker 1: uh in it. Stay tuned at the end for a 16 00:00:46,440 --> 00:00:49,320 Speaker 1: peak and Unpopular. You can also find that show or 17 00:00:49,360 --> 00:00:52,640 Speaker 1: subscribe to it on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, 18 00:00:52,720 --> 00:00:59,080 Speaker 1: Google Podcasts, and wherever else you get your podcasts. Welcome 19 00:00:59,120 --> 00:01:01,640 Speaker 1: to Stuff You Missed in History Class, a production of 20 00:01:01,640 --> 00:01:10,440 Speaker 1: I Heart Radios How Stuff Works. Hello, and welcome to 21 00:01:10,440 --> 00:01:12,440 Speaker 1: the podcast I'm to bring a chalk rewarding And I'm 22 00:01:12,440 --> 00:01:15,160 Speaker 1: Sarah down and Sarah and I have been talking a 23 00:01:15,200 --> 00:01:18,320 Speaker 1: lot this month, since it's Women's History Month, about real 24 00:01:18,400 --> 00:01:22,680 Speaker 1: life Amazon's and it's interesting. But when you're talking about 25 00:01:22,720 --> 00:01:25,480 Speaker 1: female warriors, Joan of Arc is one who always comes up. 26 00:01:25,560 --> 00:01:28,840 Speaker 1: She's kind of a big name among female warriors. Absolutely, 27 00:01:29,040 --> 00:01:32,440 Speaker 1: And in case you're not familiar, Joan of Arc, of course, 28 00:01:32,520 --> 00:01:35,319 Speaker 1: is a national heroine in France for leading an army 29 00:01:35,360 --> 00:01:38,240 Speaker 1: to several victories during the Hundred Years War, and she's 30 00:01:38,240 --> 00:01:40,880 Speaker 1: also a Catholic saint. She said movies made about her, 31 00:01:40,920 --> 00:01:44,440 Speaker 1: books written about her were famous way up there. But 32 00:01:44,640 --> 00:01:47,880 Speaker 1: it's interesting. She's so famous that a lot of female 33 00:01:47,880 --> 00:01:51,160 Speaker 1: warriors since then have been compared to her, and they've 34 00:01:51,200 --> 00:01:54,160 Speaker 1: even earned the Joan of Arc nickname, you know, attached 35 00:01:54,200 --> 00:01:57,600 Speaker 1: to whatever country they're from. They're they're quite a few 36 00:01:57,640 --> 00:02:01,080 Speaker 1: of them, actually, Yeah. For example, Augustina Aragon is called 37 00:02:01,280 --> 00:02:04,160 Speaker 1: Spanish Joan of Arc, and there's also a Vietnamese Joan 38 00:02:04,160 --> 00:02:05,960 Speaker 1: of Arc. I think you guys have touched on her before, 39 00:02:06,240 --> 00:02:09,560 Speaker 1: and if I remember correctly, I'm pretty sure she predates 40 00:02:09,600 --> 00:02:12,080 Speaker 1: Joan of Arc, which makes that kind of a strange 41 00:02:12,120 --> 00:02:15,840 Speaker 1: title that you're you're getting that that nickname after the fact, 42 00:02:15,960 --> 00:02:19,240 Speaker 1: but whatever, what are you gonna do? But this is 43 00:02:19,280 --> 00:02:21,880 Speaker 1: all just to kind of set up to day's episode, 44 00:02:21,960 --> 00:02:24,600 Speaker 1: which is about India's Joan of Arc, a woman named 45 00:02:24,600 --> 00:02:27,320 Speaker 1: looks me By now Looks me By, who is also 46 00:02:27,360 --> 00:02:29,600 Speaker 1: known as the Ronnie of John C. She became famous 47 00:02:29,639 --> 00:02:32,320 Speaker 1: for her role in the Indian Mutiny of eighteen fifty seven, 48 00:02:32,400 --> 00:02:35,000 Speaker 1: which is sometimes thought of as India's first war of 49 00:02:35,040 --> 00:02:38,760 Speaker 1: independence from the British, of course, and her life is 50 00:02:38,840 --> 00:02:41,200 Speaker 1: uniquely wrapped up in all the factors that led to 51 00:02:41,280 --> 00:02:43,240 Speaker 1: this rebellion. So that's kind of why we wanted to 52 00:02:43,240 --> 00:02:45,000 Speaker 1: focus on her out of all these other Joan of 53 00:02:45,120 --> 00:02:48,200 Speaker 1: arcs today. Yeah, and I mean another interesting fact about 54 00:02:48,200 --> 00:02:52,400 Speaker 1: her is she's still quite important in modern India. She's 55 00:02:52,480 --> 00:02:56,040 Speaker 1: considered a national heroine and there are statues of her. 56 00:02:56,200 --> 00:02:59,360 Speaker 1: Her story is told in things like novels and movies 57 00:02:59,400 --> 00:03:02,360 Speaker 1: and ballads, just like just like Joan of Arc. I mean, 58 00:03:02,400 --> 00:03:06,480 Speaker 1: how about that um illustrated comics. I mean, she she's 59 00:03:06,520 --> 00:03:09,239 Speaker 1: a well known figure. Yeah, I think Prime Minister in 60 00:03:09,280 --> 00:03:11,360 Speaker 1: the ra Gandhi even appeared as LOKs me By in 61 00:03:11,400 --> 00:03:14,639 Speaker 1: a political commercial in the nineteen eighties, So she's kind 62 00:03:14,639 --> 00:03:17,800 Speaker 1: of all over the place, all sort of different facets 63 00:03:17,840 --> 00:03:20,519 Speaker 1: of of popular culture, and her story has become the 64 00:03:20,560 --> 00:03:24,000 Speaker 1: stuff of legend. And as we know with legends, a 65 00:03:24,040 --> 00:03:27,560 Speaker 1: lot of times, once history becomes legend, we sort of 66 00:03:27,600 --> 00:03:29,960 Speaker 1: get a little murky on what's fact and what's fiction. 67 00:03:30,320 --> 00:03:32,240 Speaker 1: So that's what we're gonna look at today. We're just 68 00:03:32,320 --> 00:03:34,800 Speaker 1: really going to consider who is looked me by, what 69 00:03:34,920 --> 00:03:37,440 Speaker 1: are the real facts about her? And why is she 70 00:03:37,520 --> 00:03:40,800 Speaker 1: alternately known as India's Joan of Arc and India's Jezebel, 71 00:03:40,880 --> 00:03:43,400 Speaker 1: depending on who you ask. But she' all didn't see 72 00:03:43,400 --> 00:03:45,800 Speaker 1: that one coming. So we're gonna start at the beginning 73 00:03:45,880 --> 00:03:48,360 Speaker 1: talk a little bit about her childhood because it really 74 00:03:48,800 --> 00:03:51,960 Speaker 1: lays the pretty strong groundwork for the woman she become. 75 00:03:52,080 --> 00:03:55,720 Speaker 1: She was born November nineteenth eighty seven to a Brahmin 76 00:03:55,840 --> 00:03:59,000 Speaker 1: family in Banaras, which is in northern India, and it 77 00:03:59,120 --> 00:04:02,600 Speaker 1: was a good family. It was even maybe a prominent family, 78 00:04:02,760 --> 00:04:05,640 Speaker 1: but they didn't really have that much money, it seems, 79 00:04:05,920 --> 00:04:09,800 Speaker 1: according to Rainier Juro's biography, The Ronnie of John C. 80 00:04:10,000 --> 00:04:13,520 Speaker 1: Rebligance Will, they didn't have that much money because her 81 00:04:13,520 --> 00:04:17,520 Speaker 1: parents had left their home in Maharashtra in central India 82 00:04:17,600 --> 00:04:20,880 Speaker 1: in exile because the ruler there was banished by the British. 83 00:04:20,960 --> 00:04:24,880 Speaker 1: So while they had been high ranking, and while her 84 00:04:24,880 --> 00:04:26,919 Speaker 1: father had been high ranking, he might have had a 85 00:04:26,920 --> 00:04:30,680 Speaker 1: little trouble re establishing himself in a new part of 86 00:04:30,680 --> 00:04:35,280 Speaker 1: the country and never really attained that high an income. Yeah, 87 00:04:35,279 --> 00:04:37,560 Speaker 1: so that just kind of sets up her family for you. 88 00:04:37,640 --> 00:04:40,760 Speaker 1: But Luxury by his original name was Moni Carnica, and 89 00:04:40,800 --> 00:04:44,360 Speaker 1: her parents called her Manu. Now Mona's childhood was kind 90 00:04:44,360 --> 00:04:46,480 Speaker 1: of unique for a little girl growing up in India 91 00:04:46,560 --> 00:04:50,920 Speaker 1: around that time, and that's mainly because her mom, Voggy Rothy, 92 00:04:51,120 --> 00:04:53,800 Speaker 1: passed away when she was about four years old, and 93 00:04:53,880 --> 00:04:57,280 Speaker 1: her dad, more upon Thumbay, remained a widower for more 94 00:04:57,320 --> 00:05:03,320 Speaker 1: than a decade. So really no big conservative corrective influence, 95 00:05:03,400 --> 00:05:06,040 Speaker 1: that female influence in her life. Who would have put 96 00:05:06,080 --> 00:05:10,160 Speaker 1: her on the path to I guess a more feminine upbringing. Yeah, 97 00:05:10,200 --> 00:05:12,240 Speaker 1: no one. They're telling her to stand up straight and 98 00:05:12,279 --> 00:05:16,479 Speaker 1: behave and seems and she was naturally feisty. She was 99 00:05:16,560 --> 00:05:19,840 Speaker 1: kind of a little tomboy, and because she didn't have 100 00:05:20,000 --> 00:05:22,520 Speaker 1: this female influence in her life, she got to stay 101 00:05:22,560 --> 00:05:24,440 Speaker 1: that way. She was allowed to stay that way. And 102 00:05:24,760 --> 00:05:27,640 Speaker 1: some sources say that it was her dad who was 103 00:05:27,680 --> 00:05:31,800 Speaker 1: actively encouraging that tomboyish behavior in her. You know, he 104 00:05:31,880 --> 00:05:34,839 Speaker 1: was teaching her how to do things like ride horses 105 00:05:34,920 --> 00:05:37,800 Speaker 1: and how to fence and shoot, and that was all 106 00:05:37,920 --> 00:05:42,279 Speaker 1: part of her education. Other sources, such as Dross, suggests 107 00:05:42,320 --> 00:05:46,200 Speaker 1: that her father really he just might have not been 108 00:05:46,360 --> 00:05:52,040 Speaker 1: in the picture enough to be that closely watching her education. Yea, 109 00:05:52,120 --> 00:05:54,839 Speaker 1: so she got to kind of run free she wanted. 110 00:05:54,960 --> 00:05:57,920 Speaker 1: So what is known about her, though, regardless of what 111 00:05:57,960 --> 00:06:00,360 Speaker 1: really happened, is that she became a very skilled writer 112 00:06:00,520 --> 00:06:03,160 Speaker 1: and learned how to use weapons, and most likely did 113 00:06:03,160 --> 00:06:05,360 Speaker 1: this before she got married, because it would have been 114 00:06:05,480 --> 00:06:09,440 Speaker 1: very inappropriate for a woman who was her traditional maharaja's 115 00:06:09,520 --> 00:06:13,120 Speaker 1: wife to um to do these things, especially because she 116 00:06:13,200 --> 00:06:16,240 Speaker 1: quote rode a horse like a man. In addition to 117 00:06:16,279 --> 00:06:18,840 Speaker 1: these manly skills, she also learned to read and write, 118 00:06:18,920 --> 00:06:21,400 Speaker 1: which was still kind of unusual for girls at that 119 00:06:21,480 --> 00:06:23,920 Speaker 1: run that time. Yeah, so you know, she comes out 120 00:06:23,920 --> 00:06:27,960 Speaker 1: of this a young girl with unusual talents, and it 121 00:06:28,040 --> 00:06:31,360 Speaker 1: seems like maybe some of this stuff would even dissuade 122 00:06:31,400 --> 00:06:35,080 Speaker 1: potential suitors, but she does get married in eighteen forty two, 123 00:06:35,400 --> 00:06:38,360 Speaker 1: she's about fifteen years old and she becomes the second 124 00:06:38,400 --> 00:06:42,840 Speaker 1: wife of Gungatar Rao Nil Walker, who is a lot 125 00:06:42,920 --> 00:06:47,320 Speaker 1: older than her. He's childless, but he is the Maharajah 126 00:06:47,400 --> 00:06:51,719 Speaker 1: of John c which is a principality about two fifty 127 00:06:51,720 --> 00:06:54,800 Speaker 1: miles southeast of Delhi. And just to give you a 128 00:06:54,839 --> 00:06:57,520 Speaker 1: little background on terms we're going to be using, because 129 00:06:57,520 --> 00:06:59,320 Speaker 1: I think from here on out we're pretty much going 130 00:06:59,360 --> 00:07:02,600 Speaker 1: to be calling her Rani. Raja in India is a 131 00:07:02,720 --> 00:07:05,839 Speaker 1: prance or a king of a particular area, and his 132 00:07:06,000 --> 00:07:09,400 Speaker 1: wife is known as Ranie, so she's a queen or 133 00:07:09,400 --> 00:07:12,760 Speaker 1: a princess. It's interesting that you mentioned that about how 134 00:07:12,800 --> 00:07:16,200 Speaker 1: her behavior might dissuade potential suitors, because it's not really 135 00:07:16,240 --> 00:07:19,760 Speaker 1: clear how the match got. The match between these two occurred. 136 00:07:19,880 --> 00:07:22,880 Speaker 1: There's such an odd couple they really are, and her 137 00:07:22,920 --> 00:07:26,880 Speaker 1: family really wasn't that wealthy. But here's one theory that's 138 00:07:26,920 --> 00:07:29,680 Speaker 1: out there about why the Raja picked her. Apparently he 139 00:07:29,720 --> 00:07:33,280 Speaker 1: had a tendency to cross dress, sometimes for theater roles 140 00:07:33,280 --> 00:07:36,480 Speaker 1: when you played female roles, but sometimes not. Sometimes he 141 00:07:36,520 --> 00:07:39,720 Speaker 1: would just wear women's jewelry around and stuff like that. 142 00:07:40,120 --> 00:07:42,360 Speaker 1: And since this was rather widely known at the time, 143 00:07:42,440 --> 00:07:45,000 Speaker 1: it suggested that this may have limited his choices and 144 00:07:45,240 --> 00:07:48,200 Speaker 1: second brides somewhat. So he may have had to settle 145 00:07:48,280 --> 00:08:01,360 Speaker 1: for this um noble but not particularly well off bride. 146 00:08:02,320 --> 00:08:04,840 Speaker 1: After her marriage, man who starts going by the name 147 00:08:04,920 --> 00:08:07,360 Speaker 1: lux me By and this suggests a reverence for the 148 00:08:07,360 --> 00:08:10,920 Speaker 1: Goddess of prosperity and happiness. So Luxmi was the patron 149 00:08:11,000 --> 00:08:14,440 Speaker 1: deity of her husband's family, and this would have made 150 00:08:14,480 --> 00:08:15,920 Speaker 1: sense for her to do, for her to change her 151 00:08:16,000 --> 00:08:17,640 Speaker 1: name like this. Yeah, it was a good move, and 152 00:08:17,960 --> 00:08:20,920 Speaker 1: she really did seem to embrace her role as Ronnie. 153 00:08:20,960 --> 00:08:23,720 Speaker 1: She she sort of put aside what she was used 154 00:08:23,760 --> 00:08:27,240 Speaker 1: to doing pretty easily, it seemed. And um tried really 155 00:08:27,280 --> 00:08:29,560 Speaker 1: hard and for a very long time to have a 156 00:08:29,640 --> 00:08:33,599 Speaker 1: child and an air and um it didn't happen. I 157 00:08:33,679 --> 00:08:36,839 Speaker 1: think years and years went by, but finally lashed me 158 00:08:36,920 --> 00:08:39,959 Speaker 1: By and the Rajah took a journey in eighteen fifty one, 159 00:08:40,040 --> 00:08:43,360 Speaker 1: kind of a pilgrimage to sacred Hindu sites, and not 160 00:08:43,480 --> 00:08:46,720 Speaker 1: long after that she got pregnant and gave birth to 161 00:08:46,760 --> 00:08:50,120 Speaker 1: a son. And you can imagine this couple was incredibly 162 00:08:50,240 --> 00:08:53,960 Speaker 1: excited now to finally have an air and a son 163 00:08:54,000 --> 00:08:57,600 Speaker 1: at that. But unfortunately for them, that excitement didn't last 164 00:08:57,720 --> 00:09:01,600 Speaker 1: very long because the baby die. It only three months old, 165 00:09:01,679 --> 00:09:06,200 Speaker 1: and they didn't know why it happened. He just died suddenly, 166 00:09:06,240 --> 00:09:10,640 Speaker 1: and and they were unfortunately not just in trouble for 167 00:09:10,760 --> 00:09:14,480 Speaker 1: personal reasons after that. Yeah, I mean they're personally personally, 168 00:09:14,520 --> 00:09:19,000 Speaker 1: they're grieving, but there are other consequences as well, and 169 00:09:19,040 --> 00:09:21,679 Speaker 1: that's because of something called the Doctrine of Laps. They 170 00:09:21,720 --> 00:09:24,400 Speaker 1: now have to worry about this too. So here's a 171 00:09:24,400 --> 00:09:26,920 Speaker 1: little background of the Doctrine of Laps. It's a formula 172 00:09:27,080 --> 00:09:30,480 Speaker 1: that was devised by Lord Delholsy, who was Governor General 173 00:09:30,480 --> 00:09:33,920 Speaker 1: of India from around eighty eight to eighteen fifty six, 174 00:09:34,480 --> 00:09:38,280 Speaker 1: and the doctrine it reflected this general desire on the 175 00:09:38,280 --> 00:09:41,280 Speaker 1: part of the British to expand the territory that they 176 00:09:41,320 --> 00:09:43,959 Speaker 1: had in India. And just to give you a little 177 00:09:44,000 --> 00:09:47,560 Speaker 1: bit of background on I guess Indian custom before that, 178 00:09:47,640 --> 00:09:52,160 Speaker 1: family politics, finally politics Exactly according to Indian tradition, a 179 00:09:52,240 --> 00:09:55,120 Speaker 1: ruler who didn't have any natural errors could adopt a 180 00:09:55,160 --> 00:09:57,880 Speaker 1: person who would then have all the personal and political 181 00:09:57,960 --> 00:10:01,080 Speaker 1: rights of a son. So, for example, the Ronnie of 182 00:10:01,120 --> 00:10:03,280 Speaker 1: John C himself had been an adopted heir, so there 183 00:10:03,320 --> 00:10:06,800 Speaker 1: was precedent for it there. However, dal Halsy with this 184 00:10:06,880 --> 00:10:09,840 Speaker 1: new doctrine, he basically asserted Great Britain's right as the 185 00:10:09,880 --> 00:10:14,520 Speaker 1: paramount power to approve adoptions. So what it did is 186 00:10:14,760 --> 00:10:17,640 Speaker 1: in practice it gave the British the opportunity to reject 187 00:10:17,640 --> 00:10:20,080 Speaker 1: a lot of last minute adoptions and therefore take over 188 00:10:20,160 --> 00:10:23,480 Speaker 1: this territory, yeah to step in and and collect land 189 00:10:23,480 --> 00:10:27,000 Speaker 1: piece by piece, which was obviously what their greater policy 190 00:10:27,160 --> 00:10:29,800 Speaker 1: was exactly, But this didn't stop the Ronnie and the 191 00:10:29,880 --> 00:10:32,520 Speaker 1: Raja from trying to do the same thing. In eighteen 192 00:10:32,600 --> 00:10:36,679 Speaker 1: fifty three, Gunga da Row becomes seriously ill and adopts 193 00:10:36,720 --> 00:10:38,920 Speaker 1: a distant five year old cousin named the mad A 194 00:10:39,080 --> 00:10:42,960 Speaker 1: Row as his son, and he draws up adoption papers 195 00:10:43,080 --> 00:10:45,559 Speaker 1: and a will which named the boys the Air and 196 00:10:45,600 --> 00:10:48,040 Speaker 1: the Ronnie as his regent, and he presents them to 197 00:10:48,120 --> 00:10:51,120 Speaker 1: Major Ellis, who was serving as an assistant political agent 198 00:10:51,120 --> 00:10:53,840 Speaker 1: at John C at the time, and this was all 199 00:10:53,880 --> 00:10:59,679 Speaker 1: done on November eighteen fifty three. Unfortunately, though the Raja dies, 200 00:10:59,800 --> 00:11:03,199 Speaker 1: the very next day. Yeah, so suddenly you have this 201 00:11:03,280 --> 00:11:06,280 Speaker 1: kind of last minute paperwork that's just gone down. This 202 00:11:06,640 --> 00:11:10,719 Speaker 1: British policy that doesn't really look that kindly on these adoptions, 203 00:11:10,840 --> 00:11:13,920 Speaker 1: especially a last minute one like this. And um, it 204 00:11:14,040 --> 00:11:16,400 Speaker 1: seems though that things might work out for a minute, 205 00:11:16,400 --> 00:11:20,000 Speaker 1: because Ellis is sympathetic to the Ronnie and he forwards 206 00:11:20,000 --> 00:11:24,679 Speaker 1: the information to his superior Major John Malcolm. But Malcolm, 207 00:11:24,720 --> 00:11:27,800 Speaker 1: even though he's not that keen on the idea of 208 00:11:27,840 --> 00:11:32,160 Speaker 1: the Ronnie being regent, he still describes her to Delousie 209 00:11:32,280 --> 00:11:35,640 Speaker 1: as quote, a woman highly respected and esteemed and I 210 00:11:35,679 --> 00:11:38,760 Speaker 1: believe fully capable of doing justice to such a charge. 211 00:11:38,840 --> 00:11:42,040 Speaker 1: So it still seems like maybe the British are going 212 00:11:42,120 --> 00:11:46,640 Speaker 1: to get behind this particular adoption at least. Yeah. Unfortunately, though, 213 00:11:46,720 --> 00:11:50,520 Speaker 1: Dalhousie refuses to acknowledge them with our row as air 214 00:11:50,679 --> 00:11:55,240 Speaker 1: and the new British Superintendent, Captain Alexander Sken comes to 215 00:11:55,320 --> 00:11:57,760 Speaker 1: John C and takes control under the doctrine of laps 216 00:11:57,840 --> 00:12:01,680 Speaker 1: without any opposition. So British are now in control, and 217 00:12:01,720 --> 00:12:04,360 Speaker 1: it seems that the Ronnie is out of luck. Yeah, 218 00:12:04,360 --> 00:12:06,960 Speaker 1: the estates tied up and and she's allowed to keep 219 00:12:07,040 --> 00:12:11,120 Speaker 1: the town palace as a personal residence, but she loses 220 00:12:11,280 --> 00:12:15,320 Speaker 1: all of the country estate and she only gets this 221 00:12:15,360 --> 00:12:19,160 Speaker 1: annual pension of about five thousand rupees and from that 222 00:12:19,559 --> 00:12:23,080 Speaker 1: she's expected to pay her husband's debt. So not a 223 00:12:23,120 --> 00:12:25,959 Speaker 1: good deal at all. So she doesn't accept it. No, 224 00:12:26,120 --> 00:12:28,920 Speaker 1: she doesn't accept it right away. She keeps submitting letters 225 00:12:28,960 --> 00:12:33,120 Speaker 1: to contest the doctrine of laps. She submits letters in December, February, 226 00:12:33,240 --> 00:12:36,400 Speaker 1: April of that year, and she keeps submitting letters until 227 00:12:37,360 --> 00:12:39,800 Speaker 1: I think early eighteen fifties six or so, so she 228 00:12:39,880 --> 00:12:43,240 Speaker 1: doesn't give up. Most of these letters, however, aren't even 229 00:12:43,320 --> 00:12:47,360 Speaker 1: forwarded to Lord's Ahousie, so she's not really being taken seriously. 230 00:12:47,360 --> 00:12:50,240 Speaker 1: At this point, her attempts to get the air of 231 00:12:50,320 --> 00:12:53,959 Speaker 1: British officials just it's falling on deaf years. It's not 232 00:12:54,120 --> 00:12:57,080 Speaker 1: a luck, it seems. So she consults with the British 233 00:12:57,080 --> 00:12:59,600 Speaker 1: Council John Lang, who is trying and trying to get 234 00:12:59,600 --> 00:13:02,280 Speaker 1: her to read did this pension sheet that she wouldn't accept? 235 00:13:02,360 --> 00:13:04,760 Speaker 1: And she says to him, and this has become kind 236 00:13:04,760 --> 00:13:07,760 Speaker 1: of a famous quote. She says, Mary John Z now 237 00:13:07,840 --> 00:13:11,080 Speaker 1: he doe and this means I will not give up, 238 00:13:11,120 --> 00:13:15,560 Speaker 1: my john Z so's making a stand put her foot down. Um. 239 00:13:15,600 --> 00:13:18,640 Speaker 1: But meanwhile, we're gonna catch you up with what's going 240 00:13:18,679 --> 00:13:22,239 Speaker 1: on in the rest of India. There were tensions mounting 241 00:13:22,280 --> 00:13:25,160 Speaker 1: among the Sea Boys, which were Indian troops in the 242 00:13:25,200 --> 00:13:28,719 Speaker 1: British East India Company Army and m Actually Candis and 243 00:13:28,800 --> 00:13:31,240 Speaker 1: Jane a very long time ago did an episode on 244 00:13:31,400 --> 00:13:34,480 Speaker 1: the East India Company UM and they mentioned sea poison 245 00:13:34,559 --> 00:13:36,600 Speaker 1: that so you could go learn a little bit extra 246 00:13:36,640 --> 00:13:39,559 Speaker 1: about them. But on the surface, it seemed like the 247 00:13:40,440 --> 00:13:44,000 Speaker 1: tensions that were mounting among these troops were caused by 248 00:13:44,280 --> 00:13:47,480 Speaker 1: rumors at the time that the cartridges were newly issued 249 00:13:47,559 --> 00:13:51,360 Speaker 1: Endfield rifles were greased with either cow or pig fat, 250 00:13:51,520 --> 00:13:54,560 Speaker 1: and depending on whether you were a Hindu or a 251 00:13:54,640 --> 00:13:58,000 Speaker 1: Muslim Sea Boy, that would be sacrilegious when you had 252 00:13:58,040 --> 00:14:01,760 Speaker 1: to tear open the cartridges with teeth. Um. So the 253 00:14:01,920 --> 00:14:05,800 Speaker 1: fear was that the British we're doing this on purpose. 254 00:14:05,880 --> 00:14:10,600 Speaker 1: They knew that this was likely to cause religious related offense, 255 00:14:10,679 --> 00:14:12,800 Speaker 1: and they were doing it to undermine the Sea Boys 256 00:14:12,840 --> 00:14:16,120 Speaker 1: faith and eventually make it easier for them to convert 257 00:14:16,320 --> 00:14:19,280 Speaker 1: them all to Christianity. Yeah, that was the rumor at 258 00:14:19,280 --> 00:14:21,920 Speaker 1: the time, as you said, but historians tend to think 259 00:14:22,000 --> 00:14:25,960 Speaker 1: that the tensions that were building up before this, they 260 00:14:25,960 --> 00:14:28,560 Speaker 1: were more due to the so called reforms that were 261 00:14:28,560 --> 00:14:31,400 Speaker 1: being made to Indian customs and culture around that time 262 00:14:31,520 --> 00:14:33,600 Speaker 1: or in the years leading up to it. For example, 263 00:14:34,160 --> 00:14:36,880 Speaker 1: widows being allowed to marry. That was something that was 264 00:14:37,520 --> 00:14:42,520 Speaker 1: very radical change. UM land reform had displaced many landowners, 265 00:14:42,520 --> 00:14:45,720 Speaker 1: So these things that the RANNIE was experiencing, others were 266 00:14:45,720 --> 00:14:48,520 Speaker 1: experiencing them too, and they weren't happy. You can imagine 267 00:14:48,520 --> 00:14:51,920 Speaker 1: how that would cause some pretty widespread discontent. So in 268 00:14:52,040 --> 00:14:56,240 Speaker 1: Mirat on May nine, eighty five of these sea boys 269 00:14:56,320 --> 00:15:00,080 Speaker 1: who refused to use the Endfield cartridges were tried and 270 00:15:00,320 --> 00:15:05,280 Speaker 1: put into irons, and um that started off major rebellion. 271 00:15:05,320 --> 00:15:08,760 Speaker 1: The next day, three regiments stormed the jail and killed 272 00:15:08,760 --> 00:15:12,120 Speaker 1: the officers and their families, and they marched from there 273 00:15:12,200 --> 00:15:15,320 Speaker 1: to Delhi, which was fifty miles away, and from there 274 00:15:15,400 --> 00:15:18,720 Speaker 1: the Seapoint rebellion really just kind of spread, you know. 275 00:15:18,760 --> 00:15:22,800 Speaker 1: It started as this localized incident, but it started to 276 00:15:23,480 --> 00:15:26,760 Speaker 1: spring up elsewhere like little brush fires, and a few 277 00:15:26,880 --> 00:15:30,080 Speaker 1: leaders took charge and transformed what had been a mutiny 278 00:15:30,120 --> 00:15:33,080 Speaker 1: into an organized resistance. They were really going to give 279 00:15:33,080 --> 00:15:37,800 Speaker 1: the British some trouble. Yeah, And eventually the mutiny made 280 00:15:37,840 --> 00:15:42,080 Speaker 1: its way to John C too. On June six fifty seven, 281 00:15:42,120 --> 00:15:45,880 Speaker 1: the troops at John C mutinied and shot their commanding officers, 282 00:15:46,360 --> 00:15:49,440 Speaker 1: Captain Skeen. At this point he gathers all the Europeans 283 00:15:49,440 --> 00:15:51,920 Speaker 1: in the city, which there were sixty six of them, 284 00:15:51,920 --> 00:15:53,960 Speaker 1: and that included about half of them I think were 285 00:15:54,000 --> 00:15:57,160 Speaker 1: women and children. They took refuge in the fort, which 286 00:15:57,320 --> 00:16:00,480 Speaker 1: was pretty well designed as a defense. It could withstand 287 00:16:00,480 --> 00:16:03,600 Speaker 1: a siege and it had an internal water supply, but 288 00:16:03,720 --> 00:16:05,600 Speaker 1: they really didn't have that much food at all. So 289 00:16:05,640 --> 00:16:07,800 Speaker 1: it wasn't going to be a long term solution to 290 00:16:07,880 --> 00:16:11,160 Speaker 1: this standoff and afford to stay there long. So on 291 00:16:11,280 --> 00:16:14,200 Speaker 1: June eighth, Skiing leads the British out of the fort 292 00:16:14,720 --> 00:16:18,520 Speaker 1: and they were massacred. By June twelve, the mutineers had 293 00:16:18,600 --> 00:16:22,320 Speaker 1: left John C for Delhi. So a bad situation, a 294 00:16:22,440 --> 00:16:26,480 Speaker 1: very bad situation. And considering how unhappy that Ronnie had 295 00:16:26,480 --> 00:16:29,400 Speaker 1: been with the government, many British people believe that she 296 00:16:29,480 --> 00:16:32,320 Speaker 1: was behind the mutiny. Yeah, but there was never any 297 00:16:32,400 --> 00:16:34,280 Speaker 1: real proof from this And as we're going to see. 298 00:16:34,320 --> 00:16:37,760 Speaker 1: It certainly did not benefit her in any way, but 299 00:16:38,160 --> 00:16:40,880 Speaker 1: still people were suspicious. This is where the jazz belt 300 00:16:40,920 --> 00:16:43,960 Speaker 1: part of the title comes from. Um. So she sent 301 00:16:44,000 --> 00:16:47,360 Speaker 1: a letter afterwards. You know, she knows that people are suspicious. Ever, 302 00:16:47,520 --> 00:16:49,920 Speaker 1: so she sent a letter to the British authorities and 303 00:16:50,400 --> 00:16:54,680 Speaker 1: she recounted everything that had happened to her, and she said, um, 304 00:16:54,720 --> 00:16:57,200 Speaker 1: among a lot of other things, quote that they the 305 00:16:57,280 --> 00:17:00,720 Speaker 1: mutineers afterwards behaved with much violence, that it's herself and 306 00:17:00,760 --> 00:17:04,320 Speaker 1: her servants, and extorted a great deal of money from her. So, 307 00:17:04,400 --> 00:17:07,080 Speaker 1: you know, basically just trying to make the point. They 308 00:17:07,119 --> 00:17:10,320 Speaker 1: messed with me too. You know, I was not their leader. 309 00:17:10,359 --> 00:17:12,760 Speaker 1: I didn't help get this whole thing going. Yeah, and 310 00:17:12,800 --> 00:17:15,359 Speaker 1: she expresses it's a long letter and you can find 311 00:17:15,359 --> 00:17:18,919 Speaker 1: excerpts on it in various essays and biographies, but she 312 00:17:19,080 --> 00:17:21,680 Speaker 1: basically is like, hey, I'm sorry this happened to you. 313 00:17:21,760 --> 00:17:24,040 Speaker 1: This is really sad, but my hands were tied. I 314 00:17:24,040 --> 00:17:27,200 Speaker 1: couldn't do anything about it. She sends another letter later 315 00:17:27,240 --> 00:17:30,000 Speaker 1: saying that there was anarchy in john Cy and she 316 00:17:30,040 --> 00:17:32,560 Speaker 1: asked for orders from the British and they issued a 317 00:17:32,600 --> 00:17:36,000 Speaker 1: proclamation authorizing the Ronnie to manage the district until they 318 00:17:36,040 --> 00:17:38,720 Speaker 1: could send soldiers there to restore order. And I was 319 00:17:38,760 --> 00:17:42,639 Speaker 1: really surprised by this part because up until now, you know, 320 00:17:42,680 --> 00:17:44,760 Speaker 1: the British have been trying to strip her of any 321 00:17:44,760 --> 00:17:48,480 Speaker 1: power she had, and here they are authorizing her to 322 00:17:48,480 --> 00:17:52,640 Speaker 1: to raise an army. Pretty amazing. Yeah, I think it shows, 323 00:17:52,840 --> 00:17:55,320 Speaker 1: you know, that they did think that she had some brains, 324 00:17:55,359 --> 00:17:57,880 Speaker 1: they had some respect for her. They just didn't want 325 00:17:57,880 --> 00:18:01,159 Speaker 1: her to actually have any land. Yeah, in absence of 326 00:18:01,200 --> 00:18:04,119 Speaker 1: any other British option, we will let you run the 327 00:18:04,119 --> 00:18:06,560 Speaker 1: place for a little while until we get there. But 328 00:18:07,240 --> 00:18:10,880 Speaker 1: you know, in general, but she does start building up 329 00:18:10,920 --> 00:18:15,000 Speaker 1: this army while managing the district, and presumably at this 330 00:18:15,080 --> 00:18:18,879 Speaker 1: point it is to defend John C from neighboring districts 331 00:18:18,920 --> 00:18:22,040 Speaker 1: and rebels, maybe a distant claimant to the throne, you know, 332 00:18:22,119 --> 00:18:25,560 Speaker 1: just anybody who might come and cause trouble. Yeah, and 333 00:18:25,600 --> 00:18:29,160 Speaker 1: according to military history, some of her troops included mutineers 334 00:18:29,200 --> 00:18:32,560 Speaker 1: from the former John C. Garrison, which is kind of suspicious, 335 00:18:32,600 --> 00:18:35,440 Speaker 1: I guess, and probably didn't help her cause and trying 336 00:18:35,480 --> 00:18:40,639 Speaker 1: to convince people that she wasn't responsible right then. Jaroch 337 00:18:40,720 --> 00:18:43,480 Speaker 1: also says that her army included some women too, and 338 00:18:43,520 --> 00:18:46,080 Speaker 1: that this was an indicator of how devoted and loyal 339 00:18:46,240 --> 00:18:48,800 Speaker 1: her subjects were to her, because they were willing to 340 00:18:48,880 --> 00:19:00,800 Speaker 1: cast aside tradition to fight with her. Speaking of tradition, 341 00:19:01,200 --> 00:19:04,040 Speaker 1: we need to mention the appearance of this woman too 342 00:19:04,080 --> 00:19:08,359 Speaker 1: and her mannerisms, because she she cut quite a figure, 343 00:19:08,400 --> 00:19:11,160 Speaker 1: I mean to to say the least, she's been described 344 00:19:11,160 --> 00:19:14,640 Speaker 1: as being fair and handsome, even though according to most 345 00:19:14,680 --> 00:19:16,720 Speaker 1: of the British Men who described her, her face was 346 00:19:16,760 --> 00:19:19,600 Speaker 1: a little on the round side. Um. But she quote 347 00:19:19,600 --> 00:19:23,639 Speaker 1: had a noble presence and figure and a stern expression. 348 00:19:24,200 --> 00:19:28,399 Speaker 1: And instead of following the traditional customs of widows at 349 00:19:28,400 --> 00:19:31,119 Speaker 1: the time and dressing all in white and not wearing 350 00:19:31,119 --> 00:19:35,480 Speaker 1: any jewelry, she came out wearing men's clothes sometimes, this 351 00:19:35,600 --> 00:19:39,359 Speaker 1: coat of dark blue, a beautiful turban on her head, 352 00:19:39,600 --> 00:19:43,200 Speaker 1: and this embroidered cloth around her waist, and jeweled a 353 00:19:43,320 --> 00:19:46,480 Speaker 1: jeweled sword. I mean, she she must have been pretty 354 00:19:46,520 --> 00:19:51,719 Speaker 1: amazing looking, especially out leading an army. Yeah, definitely, and 355 00:19:52,400 --> 00:19:56,200 Speaker 1: she I guess had some moves to People have said 356 00:19:56,320 --> 00:19:59,600 Speaker 1: that they've you know, they saw her practicing her skills 357 00:19:59,680 --> 00:20:03,000 Speaker 1: on her back and with their weapons out. Um. You 358 00:20:03,000 --> 00:20:05,959 Speaker 1: know while she was getting this army together, and one 359 00:20:06,000 --> 00:20:07,840 Speaker 1: of her signature moves which I love, I think I 360 00:20:07,880 --> 00:20:09,800 Speaker 1: was trying to remember this for you earlier but couldn't 361 00:20:09,840 --> 00:20:11,639 Speaker 1: remember it. It It was that she would be on a 362 00:20:11,680 --> 00:20:16,280 Speaker 1: horse and twirling a saber in each hand with the 363 00:20:16,320 --> 00:20:20,920 Speaker 1: reins of the horse and her teeth so very skilled. Indeed, 364 00:20:20,960 --> 00:20:24,359 Speaker 1: that would be really scary if you if you saw 365 00:20:24,400 --> 00:20:28,680 Speaker 1: someone coming with two sabers. Yeah. I didn't worry about 366 00:20:28,680 --> 00:20:31,680 Speaker 1: my teeth, though, I hope that were me to you 367 00:20:31,840 --> 00:20:35,520 Speaker 1: might like go over a little bump or something. Yeah. Yeah, 368 00:20:35,600 --> 00:20:38,320 Speaker 1: But she had bigger problems though, than her teeth. I mean, 369 00:20:38,320 --> 00:20:40,280 Speaker 1: that was not her top concern. That was not her 370 00:20:40,320 --> 00:20:42,720 Speaker 1: top concern. And I mean, if you wanted to show 371 00:20:42,760 --> 00:20:44,880 Speaker 1: people you were tough, hey, that's the way to do it. 372 00:20:45,480 --> 00:20:48,200 Speaker 1: Suffice to say, she soon got the opportunity to show 373 00:20:48,200 --> 00:20:53,000 Speaker 1: off her skills in January, Major General Sir he Rose, 374 00:20:53,200 --> 00:20:55,960 Speaker 1: who ends up being named as her major opponent in 375 00:20:55,960 --> 00:20:58,560 Speaker 1: this whole affair. I think march towards the city with 376 00:20:58,640 --> 00:21:02,240 Speaker 1: soldiers and as eight is February, the Ronnie told her 377 00:21:02,240 --> 00:21:05,159 Speaker 1: British advisors that she would in fact return the district 378 00:21:05,160 --> 00:21:07,880 Speaker 1: to the British when they got there, so their army exactly. 379 00:21:07,880 --> 00:21:12,000 Speaker 1: She didn't seem this is a relief she's been waiting for, right, um, 380 00:21:12,040 --> 00:21:15,960 Speaker 1: so not confrontational at this point. But that's not really happened. 381 00:21:15,960 --> 00:21:18,240 Speaker 1: It wasn't a nice handoff, was it. It's not how 382 00:21:18,320 --> 00:21:22,920 Speaker 1: Rose treats the situation at all. On March fifty eight, 383 00:21:23,080 --> 00:21:26,399 Speaker 1: Rose and his forces attacked Johncy and again, according to 384 00:21:26,440 --> 00:21:30,400 Speaker 1: military history, luxmi By resisted because she wasn't sure if 385 00:21:30,520 --> 00:21:32,600 Speaker 1: she was going to be executed if she was captured. 386 00:21:32,680 --> 00:21:35,199 Speaker 1: I think she really believed that the British, after all, 387 00:21:35,240 --> 00:21:38,160 Speaker 1: they still weren't really happy with her after the mutiny 388 00:21:38,200 --> 00:21:40,600 Speaker 1: and really blamed her for it. Still many of them did, 389 00:21:40,640 --> 00:21:43,639 Speaker 1: the officials at least, and and clearly the relations between 390 00:21:43,680 --> 00:21:45,920 Speaker 1: her and the British were muddled to say the least. 391 00:21:46,000 --> 00:21:48,920 Speaker 1: I mean, she didn't know what exactly was going on. 392 00:21:49,400 --> 00:21:53,080 Speaker 1: So by March thirty, most of the Ronnie's guns were 393 00:21:53,119 --> 00:21:56,200 Speaker 1: disabled and the fort's walls had been breached, and by 394 00:21:56,240 --> 00:21:58,640 Speaker 1: April three, the British broke into the city and they 395 00:21:58,680 --> 00:22:02,120 Speaker 1: took the palace and storm the fort, but she got out. 396 00:22:02,200 --> 00:22:06,119 Speaker 1: She escaped on horseback in the night before that final assault. 397 00:22:06,640 --> 00:22:08,959 Speaker 1: And this is the amazing part. And if you if 398 00:22:08,960 --> 00:22:12,760 Speaker 1: you look up a picture of her, you'll see dramatizations 399 00:22:12,920 --> 00:22:16,560 Speaker 1: of this, not entirely accurate ones. But she escapes into 400 00:22:16,560 --> 00:22:19,359 Speaker 1: the night on horseback with her ten year old adopted 401 00:22:19,440 --> 00:22:22,760 Speaker 1: son strapped her back. I think he mentioned that she 402 00:22:22,880 --> 00:22:25,840 Speaker 1: knew she was going to have to ride too fast 403 00:22:25,920 --> 00:22:28,720 Speaker 1: to just have him sitting in front of her strapped 404 00:22:28,720 --> 00:22:30,480 Speaker 1: her back. Yeah. I mean, this is where you see 405 00:22:30,480 --> 00:22:32,240 Speaker 1: a lot of the legend come in. You'll hear many 406 00:22:32,280 --> 00:22:35,240 Speaker 1: different accounts of how this escape might have occurred, but 407 00:22:35,440 --> 00:22:37,760 Speaker 1: in general we think that he was strapped to her back, 408 00:22:37,840 --> 00:22:40,199 Speaker 1: tied to her with a sash, and that she and 409 00:22:40,280 --> 00:22:43,560 Speaker 1: a bunch maybe up to three hundred of her troops 410 00:22:43,920 --> 00:22:46,040 Speaker 1: escaped in the middle of the night. And it's all 411 00:22:46,040 --> 00:22:48,400 Speaker 1: a little bit sketchy because how did they get past 412 00:22:48,440 --> 00:22:51,639 Speaker 1: the British troops, But maybe they were just confused in 413 00:22:51,640 --> 00:22:55,120 Speaker 1: the dark. Yeah, But I mean, once the Ronnie is out, 414 00:22:55,160 --> 00:22:57,280 Speaker 1: she rode like the wind because she was afraid that 415 00:22:57,320 --> 00:23:00,600 Speaker 1: the British were after her. And it's that she wrote 416 00:23:00,640 --> 00:23:03,760 Speaker 1: anywhere from eighty six to ninety three miles and twenty 417 00:23:03,760 --> 00:23:06,160 Speaker 1: four hours to get all the way to the fortress 418 00:23:06,240 --> 00:23:09,320 Speaker 1: of Kalpi, where she joined up with some of the 419 00:23:09,359 --> 00:23:14,200 Speaker 1: other resistance leaders Yeah nanasa Heb raw Saheb, and thought 420 00:23:14,200 --> 00:23:17,919 Speaker 1: the ape. These were well known resistance leaders. They had 421 00:23:17,960 --> 00:23:20,840 Speaker 1: been involved in other mutinies elsewhere in India going on 422 00:23:20,880 --> 00:23:24,440 Speaker 1: at the time, and so they grouped together, joined forces 423 00:23:24,680 --> 00:23:27,959 Speaker 1: at Um and they faced the British in two consecutive 424 00:23:28,000 --> 00:23:31,480 Speaker 1: battles Um starting from Kalpi, one on May six but 425 00:23:31,560 --> 00:23:34,120 Speaker 1: which they were forced to retreat from, and another one 426 00:23:34,160 --> 00:23:37,000 Speaker 1: where they were defeated again on May twenty two or 427 00:23:37,000 --> 00:23:40,040 Speaker 1: twenty third somewhere around there. The British thought that was 428 00:23:40,080 --> 00:23:42,680 Speaker 1: the end at that point, but that wasn't actually the case. 429 00:23:42,880 --> 00:23:46,840 Speaker 1: On May thirty, the rebels reached Gualier, which controlled both 430 00:23:46,840 --> 00:23:49,840 Speaker 1: the Grand Trunk Road and the telegraph lines between Agra 431 00:23:50,000 --> 00:23:54,520 Speaker 1: and Bombay. There they met Joigi raw Shindia, the Maharaja 432 00:23:54,520 --> 00:23:57,240 Speaker 1: of Gwalior, and he was a British loyalist and actually 433 00:23:57,240 --> 00:23:59,000 Speaker 1: tried to stop them at this point. He tried to 434 00:23:59,359 --> 00:24:01,399 Speaker 1: kind of push the rebels back and not let them in, 435 00:24:01,440 --> 00:24:04,920 Speaker 1: but his troops ended up switching sides and he had 436 00:24:04,960 --> 00:24:07,879 Speaker 1: to flee to Agra. So at this point, the rebels 437 00:24:07,880 --> 00:24:10,520 Speaker 1: have control of Gualier. Yeah, pretty big bunch of them 438 00:24:10,520 --> 00:24:14,720 Speaker 1: too by now, and on June Sixte Rosa's forces close 439 00:24:14,800 --> 00:24:17,880 Speaker 1: in though, So it's important to note up until this point, 440 00:24:17,960 --> 00:24:20,840 Speaker 1: lacked me By had not been out at the head 441 00:24:20,920 --> 00:24:24,960 Speaker 1: of these rebel battles, but she was the one who 442 00:24:25,040 --> 00:24:28,399 Speaker 1: led what remained of her John C. Contingent out to 443 00:24:28,800 --> 00:24:32,960 Speaker 1: to stop Rose's forces on Gwalior. She went out to 444 00:24:33,000 --> 00:24:36,359 Speaker 1: battle dressed in male clothing. She had on the red 445 00:24:36,480 --> 00:24:39,560 Speaker 1: uniform of a cavalry officer. She was wearing a white 446 00:24:39,600 --> 00:24:43,720 Speaker 1: turban over her short hair. She really cut quite an 447 00:24:43,720 --> 00:24:47,160 Speaker 1: inspiring figure. But during the battle she was shot from 448 00:24:47,160 --> 00:24:50,399 Speaker 1: her horse and killed, and it's believed that she was 449 00:24:50,440 --> 00:24:53,840 Speaker 1: cremated really soon after that because she was terrified that 450 00:24:54,119 --> 00:24:56,719 Speaker 1: her body would fall into British hands and and not 451 00:24:56,840 --> 00:25:01,160 Speaker 1: be treated respectfully. And after her death, Gwalier fell pretty 452 00:25:01,200 --> 00:25:04,320 Speaker 1: soon after that, and the organized rebellion really fizzled out. 453 00:25:04,480 --> 00:25:08,200 Speaker 1: And even though lashed me By herself did not really 454 00:25:08,440 --> 00:25:12,000 Speaker 1: win any of these battles, it seems like her personality 455 00:25:12,040 --> 00:25:16,920 Speaker 1: and her bravery really left a big impression on people. Yeah, 456 00:25:16,920 --> 00:25:19,680 Speaker 1: it's really that, I think, as you mentioned her personality 457 00:25:19,760 --> 00:25:21,760 Speaker 1: that's really made her a symbol of the fight for 458 00:25:21,880 --> 00:25:25,320 Speaker 1: Indian independence. And at the time, I think it was 459 00:25:25,560 --> 00:25:28,280 Speaker 1: sort of true as well. I mean, British newspapers proclaimed 460 00:25:28,359 --> 00:25:31,320 Speaker 1: looked me by the Jezebel of India. But even Sir 461 00:25:31,440 --> 00:25:35,160 Speaker 1: Hugh Rose, her big rival in this whole battle, compared 462 00:25:35,200 --> 00:25:39,040 Speaker 1: his fallen adversary to Joan of Arc. So that's, you know, 463 00:25:39,160 --> 00:25:41,280 Speaker 1: maybe one of the first places that we see that. 464 00:25:41,440 --> 00:25:44,600 Speaker 1: And he reported her death to William Augustus, Duke of 465 00:25:44,640 --> 00:25:48,320 Speaker 1: Cumberland in this way, he said, the Ronnie is remarkable 466 00:25:48,359 --> 00:25:52,560 Speaker 1: for her bravery, cleverness and perseverance. Her generosity to her 467 00:25:52,600 --> 00:25:56,720 Speaker 1: subordinates was unbounded. These qualities, combined with her rank, rendered 468 00:25:56,760 --> 00:25:59,760 Speaker 1: her the most dangerous of all rebel leaders. And I mean, 469 00:25:59,760 --> 00:26:02,400 Speaker 1: I think that's interesting. And I mentioned this a minute 470 00:26:02,440 --> 00:26:05,280 Speaker 1: ago when we were talking about how strange it is 471 00:26:05,320 --> 00:26:08,800 Speaker 1: that they gave her, they gave her permission to raise 472 00:26:08,840 --> 00:26:11,679 Speaker 1: an army in the first place, but that they would 473 00:26:11,680 --> 00:26:16,520 Speaker 1: be so disrespectful of her claims yet so admiring of her, 474 00:26:16,520 --> 00:26:22,800 Speaker 1: her personality and her her capability. I just think it's um, 475 00:26:22,840 --> 00:26:25,560 Speaker 1: I don't know, it's sad. Yeah, it's a huge contradiction, 476 00:26:25,920 --> 00:26:27,280 Speaker 1: but I mean, I think we see that a lot 477 00:26:27,280 --> 00:26:30,080 Speaker 1: throughout women's history, and Rose had more praise for her, 478 00:26:30,320 --> 00:26:34,680 Speaker 1: and maybe somewhat dubious praise, I guess, depending on how 479 00:26:34,760 --> 00:26:37,119 Speaker 1: you like to study your women's history. He said. Although 480 00:26:37,160 --> 00:26:39,600 Speaker 1: she was a lady, she was the bravest and best 481 00:26:39,640 --> 00:26:43,040 Speaker 1: military leader of the rebels, a man among the mutineers. 482 00:26:43,560 --> 00:26:46,920 Speaker 1: So his highest compliment was comparing her to a man. Yeah, 483 00:26:46,960 --> 00:26:49,240 Speaker 1: and so does the popular folk song. But I think 484 00:26:49,240 --> 00:26:52,480 Speaker 1: that it might put it a little a little better better, Yeah, 485 00:26:52,560 --> 00:26:56,680 Speaker 1: definitely more exciting. Right, So the folk song goes, how 486 00:26:56,760 --> 00:26:59,440 Speaker 1: valiantly like a man thought she the Ronnie of John C. 487 00:27:00,200 --> 00:27:03,000 Speaker 1: On every parapet, a gun, cheese set, raining fire of hell. 488 00:27:03,480 --> 00:27:05,520 Speaker 1: How well like a man thought the Ronnie of John C. 489 00:27:05,680 --> 00:27:14,200 Speaker 1: How valiantly and well, thank you so much for joining 490 00:27:14,280 --> 00:27:17,480 Speaker 1: us on this Saturday. If you have heard an email 491 00:27:17,480 --> 00:27:19,880 Speaker 1: address or a Facebook you are l or something similar 492 00:27:19,960 --> 00:27:22,480 Speaker 1: over the course of today's episode. Since it is from 493 00:27:22,480 --> 00:27:25,080 Speaker 1: the archive that might be out of date now, you 494 00:27:25,119 --> 00:27:28,280 Speaker 1: can email us at History Podcast at how stuff works 495 00:27:28,320 --> 00:27:30,359 Speaker 1: dot com, and you can find us all over social 496 00:27:30,400 --> 00:27:33,560 Speaker 1: media at missed in History, and you can subscribe to 497 00:27:33,640 --> 00:27:36,920 Speaker 1: our show on Apple Podcasts, Google podcast the I Heart 498 00:27:37,040 --> 00:27:44,240 Speaker 1: Radio app, and wherever else you listen to podcasts. Stuff 499 00:27:44,240 --> 00:27:46,919 Speaker 1: you missed Industry Classes a production of I Heart Radios 500 00:27:46,960 --> 00:27:49,879 Speaker 1: How Stuff Works. For more podcasts. For my heart Radio, 501 00:27:50,040 --> 00:27:52,959 Speaker 1: visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever 502 00:27:53,080 --> 00:28:05,479 Speaker 1: you listen to your favorite shows. Imagine for a moment 503 00:28:06,000 --> 00:28:09,880 Speaker 1: a world where nobody ever questioned the way things are, 504 00:28:10,960 --> 00:28:15,080 Speaker 1: one where no person ever challenged common thought or believed 505 00:28:15,119 --> 00:28:20,600 Speaker 1: in thinking beyond the limitations of contemporary knowledge, where no 506 00:28:20,680 --> 00:28:25,080 Speaker 1: one ever had the guts to propose new ideas for 507 00:28:25,160 --> 00:28:31,320 Speaker 1: fear of being shunned or killed. Without protest, there would 508 00:28:31,359 --> 00:28:36,680 Speaker 1: be no progress. I for one, am thankful that there 509 00:28:36,680 --> 00:28:40,440 Speaker 1: were plenty of people in history who refused to accept 510 00:28:40,440 --> 00:28:44,920 Speaker 1: the conventions of their times, people like Galileo, who was 511 00:28:45,080 --> 00:28:50,320 Speaker 1: punished and confined for suggesting facts that other people couldn't fathom, 512 00:28:50,360 --> 00:28:54,080 Speaker 1: and Fumilao Ransom Coutie, who stood up for women in 513 00:28:54,160 --> 00:28:58,920 Speaker 1: Nigeria when their needs were being ignored when they were alive. 514 00:28:59,280 --> 00:29:04,400 Speaker 1: Their idea is their actions. Their audacity was despised by 515 00:29:04,520 --> 00:29:09,560 Speaker 1: so many people. Of course, they had supporters, but their 516 00:29:09,600 --> 00:29:14,400 Speaker 1: opposition made them targets of hate and state sanctioned denouncement. 517 00:29:15,400 --> 00:29:19,080 Speaker 1: Even though their descent was based in research and experience 518 00:29:19,520 --> 00:29:23,680 Speaker 1: and driven by desire for meaningful change, they still need 519 00:29:23,880 --> 00:29:28,000 Speaker 1: lots of enemies for it. It's human nature to value 520 00:29:28,040 --> 00:29:31,160 Speaker 1: stability and patterns. It makes sense for us to be 521 00:29:31,240 --> 00:29:36,240 Speaker 1: resistant to change and being wrong just sucks. But change 522 00:29:36,280 --> 00:29:39,840 Speaker 1: is inevitable and we have to think forward if we're 523 00:29:39,840 --> 00:29:45,680 Speaker 1: going to move forward, even if it costs us. I'm 524 00:29:45,760 --> 00:29:50,120 Speaker 1: eve chef cook. Every week on Unpopular will reach back 525 00:29:50,120 --> 00:29:53,280 Speaker 1: into the past to tell the story of someone who 526 00:29:53,400 --> 00:29:57,520 Speaker 1: challenged the status quo, connecting the dots between their history 527 00:29:57,960 --> 00:30:01,400 Speaker 1: and the history that we're making today. We can be 528 00:30:01,600 --> 00:30:06,000 Speaker 1: so quick to dismiss people's ideas when they seem too big, 529 00:30:06,480 --> 00:30:10,400 Speaker 1: don't align with how we see the world, make us uncomfortable, 530 00:30:10,520 --> 00:30:15,720 Speaker 1: or shatter our pride or power. It's easy to reject change, 531 00:30:16,200 --> 00:30:19,960 Speaker 1: it's harder to be open to new ideas, and often 532 00:30:20,440 --> 00:30:23,560 Speaker 1: it's hard to be the person who is calling for 533 00:30:23,680 --> 00:30:28,160 Speaker 1: meaningful change in the face of people who can be arrogant, stubborn, 534 00:30:28,320 --> 00:30:32,720 Speaker 1: and unwilling to accept that change. But somebody has to 535 00:30:32,760 --> 00:30:37,760 Speaker 1: do it, and sometimes it pays off. Is it worth 536 00:30:37,800 --> 00:30:40,280 Speaker 1: it to speak out when it feels like the world 537 00:30:40,360 --> 00:30:45,000 Speaker 1: is against you. The first episode of Unpopular comes out 538 00:30:45,000 --> 00:30:48,360 Speaker 1: on ma After that, you can look forward to a 539 00:30:48,400 --> 00:30:52,040 Speaker 1: new episode every Tuesday. Click the subscribe button in the 540 00:30:52,080 --> 00:30:55,760 Speaker 1: I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get 541 00:30:55,800 --> 00:31:03,480 Speaker 1: your podcast to make sure you don't miss a single episode.