1 00:00:01,320 --> 00:00:04,240 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff You Missed in History Class, a production 2 00:00:04,400 --> 00:00:14,319 Speaker 1: of iHeartRadio. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Tracy V. 3 00:00:14,480 --> 00:00:18,279 Speaker 1: Wilson and I'm Holly Frye. I was looking back over 4 00:00:18,320 --> 00:00:21,200 Speaker 1: the year at the episodes that I've researched and written 5 00:00:21,239 --> 00:00:24,960 Speaker 1: of this show, and I felt like it was just 6 00:00:25,040 --> 00:00:30,080 Speaker 1: a little too heavily concentrated in the seventeenth through twentieth centuries, 7 00:00:30,480 --> 00:00:35,720 Speaker 1: maybe eighteenth through twentieth to be more fair, I feel you, Yeah, 8 00:00:35,720 --> 00:00:38,080 Speaker 1: So I on purpose went to look for something from 9 00:00:38,159 --> 00:00:41,200 Speaker 1: a little longer ago than that, and I landed on 10 00:00:41,560 --> 00:00:44,559 Speaker 1: Sayda Alhura, who has been on my short list for 11 00:00:44,640 --> 00:00:47,440 Speaker 1: quite a while and who lived in the fifteenth and 12 00:00:47,520 --> 00:00:51,559 Speaker 1: sixteenth centuries. We've talked about her very briefly on the 13 00:00:51,600 --> 00:00:54,360 Speaker 1: show before that was back in twenty sixteen, and that 14 00:00:54,640 --> 00:00:58,800 Speaker 1: very brief conversation was mostly about how we didn't have 15 00:00:58,840 --> 00:01:03,360 Speaker 1: a lot of information. There are some new English language 16 00:01:03,400 --> 00:01:06,440 Speaker 1: papers that have been published about her since that time, 17 00:01:06,480 --> 00:01:09,399 Speaker 1: but there are still a lot of unknowns about her. 18 00:01:10,560 --> 00:01:15,080 Speaker 1: A lot of European accounts of Sayda Alhurra's life characterize 19 00:01:15,120 --> 00:01:17,360 Speaker 1: her as a pirate, and that is how we described 20 00:01:17,360 --> 00:01:21,080 Speaker 1: her in that incredibly brief conversation in twenty sixteen that 21 00:01:21,160 --> 00:01:24,760 Speaker 1: was mostly about not knowing anything after getting into this 22 00:01:24,840 --> 00:01:28,920 Speaker 1: research more. I don't really think pirate is the best word, 23 00:01:29,040 --> 00:01:31,520 Speaker 1: or if any, It just doesn't tell the whole story 24 00:01:31,720 --> 00:01:35,960 Speaker 1: very well. Sayda Alhurra is a title, and it has 25 00:01:36,000 --> 00:01:39,680 Speaker 1: been translated from Arabic in multiple ways that all have 26 00:01:39,800 --> 00:01:44,800 Speaker 1: connotations of being honored, noble, or powerful, as well as independent. 27 00:01:45,760 --> 00:01:49,560 Speaker 1: Similar titles have also been used for other powerful Muslim 28 00:01:49,600 --> 00:01:53,440 Speaker 1: women in history, including Arwa al Sulaihi, who ruled Yemen 29 00:01:53,560 --> 00:01:57,600 Speaker 1: in the twelfth century. Some scholars have concluded that Sayida 30 00:01:57,680 --> 00:02:02,160 Speaker 1: Alhura's given name was probably Fatama or Aicha. A couple 31 00:02:02,160 --> 00:02:04,280 Speaker 1: of sources say that it might have been Lallah, but 32 00:02:04,360 --> 00:02:07,400 Speaker 1: that is also a title with a meaning along the 33 00:02:07,400 --> 00:02:11,840 Speaker 1: lines of lady. There is also an argument that, even 34 00:02:11,880 --> 00:02:15,800 Speaker 1: though it is typically a title, Alhurra was her given 35 00:02:15,919 --> 00:02:19,919 Speaker 1: name because it appears that way on her second marriage contract. 36 00:02:20,760 --> 00:02:23,160 Speaker 1: If that is the case, she may have been named 37 00:02:23,280 --> 00:02:27,320 Speaker 1: after an earlier woman who had earned that same title. 38 00:02:28,280 --> 00:02:32,880 Speaker 1: Sayeda Elhurra's father was Mulay Ali Ibin Rashid, and mulay 39 00:02:33,160 --> 00:02:38,000 Speaker 1: is another title. It essentially means prince. He was a sharif, 40 00:02:38,120 --> 00:02:40,640 Speaker 1: meaning he traces lineage back to the family of the 41 00:02:40,680 --> 00:02:45,600 Speaker 1: prophet Mohammed. His ancestors included King Idris the First, who 42 00:02:45,639 --> 00:02:49,639 Speaker 1: founded the first independent Muslim dynasty in what is now Morocco. 43 00:02:50,520 --> 00:02:54,519 Speaker 1: At different points in his life, Ali Ibin Rashid lived 44 00:02:54,560 --> 00:02:58,000 Speaker 1: in both Morocco in northern Africa, and in Granada on 45 00:02:58,080 --> 00:03:03,040 Speaker 1: the Iberian Peninsula. That included serving Sultan Mohammad the Eleventh 46 00:03:03,080 --> 00:03:07,040 Speaker 1: in Granada starting in about fourteen sixty. While he was 47 00:03:07,040 --> 00:03:10,240 Speaker 1: in service to the Sultan, he married Sayda Alhurra's mother, 48 00:03:10,720 --> 00:03:14,760 Speaker 1: Zora Fernandez. She grew up near Kadiz and she had 49 00:03:14,840 --> 00:03:20,400 Speaker 1: converted from Catholicism to Islam. Ali Ibn Rashid founded the 50 00:03:20,440 --> 00:03:25,000 Speaker 1: Moroccan city of chef Chowin in fourteen seventy one. Today, 51 00:03:25,320 --> 00:03:28,240 Speaker 1: Chef Chawin is known as the Blue City because so 52 00:03:28,360 --> 00:03:31,800 Speaker 1: many of the buildings in the Medina are blue, but 53 00:03:31,960 --> 00:03:35,680 Speaker 1: those very very distinctive blue walls and roofs are a 54 00:03:35,680 --> 00:03:38,920 Speaker 1: more recent development, with a lot of different stories about 55 00:03:38,920 --> 00:03:42,920 Speaker 1: how and why the color came to be used. At first, 56 00:03:43,000 --> 00:03:46,440 Speaker 1: Chef Chawen was mainly a kasbah or fortress meant to 57 00:03:46,440 --> 00:03:50,840 Speaker 1: help defend northern Morocco from the Portuguese after Ferdinand and 58 00:03:50,920 --> 00:03:54,600 Speaker 1: Isabella conquered Granada in fourteen ninety two. It also became 59 00:03:54,720 --> 00:03:58,000 Speaker 1: a home to an increasing number of Jewish and Muslim 60 00:03:58,040 --> 00:04:02,080 Speaker 1: refugees who were fleeing from what is now Spain. We 61 00:04:02,120 --> 00:04:04,360 Speaker 1: should back up for a second for some context on 62 00:04:04,440 --> 00:04:08,600 Speaker 1: all of that. First, defending northern Morocco from the Portuguese. 63 00:04:09,000 --> 00:04:12,640 Speaker 1: So Morocco and the Iberian Peninsula, of course face each 64 00:04:12,640 --> 00:04:16,000 Speaker 1: other across the Strait of Gibraltar, and this strait is 65 00:04:16,040 --> 00:04:20,159 Speaker 1: strategically very important for its connection between the Mediterranean Sea 66 00:04:20,279 --> 00:04:24,240 Speaker 1: and the Atlantic Ocean, and for connecting Northern Africa to 67 00:04:24,279 --> 00:04:27,920 Speaker 1: the Iberian Peninsula and then the rest of Europe. Seuta 68 00:04:28,160 --> 00:04:32,240 Speaker 1: is on a small isthmus on the Mediterranean coast of Morocco, 69 00:04:32,520 --> 00:04:35,840 Speaker 1: and that has been an important military and commercial port 70 00:04:35,920 --> 00:04:40,680 Speaker 1: for thousands of years. Portugal gained control of Ceuta in 71 00:04:40,880 --> 00:04:44,479 Speaker 1: fourteen fifteen and from there started trying to claim additional 72 00:04:44,600 --> 00:04:48,920 Speaker 1: territory in Morocco. Most of the cities that the Portuguese 73 00:04:49,000 --> 00:04:52,040 Speaker 1: tried to occupy were on the coast, and Chefhawin is 74 00:04:52,080 --> 00:04:55,360 Speaker 1: about sixty kilometers or thirty seven miles inland in the 75 00:04:55,440 --> 00:04:59,760 Speaker 1: Riff Mountains. This landscape and the distance from the coast 76 00:04:59,800 --> 00:05:04,760 Speaker 1: of offered some additional protection from the Portuguese and as 77 00:05:04,800 --> 00:05:09,360 Speaker 1: for Spain conquering Granada. Starting in the eighth century, Muslims 78 00:05:09,360 --> 00:05:13,480 Speaker 1: from Tangier and other parts of northern Africa conquered most 79 00:05:13,480 --> 00:05:18,040 Speaker 1: of the Iberian Peninsula. The region under Muslim control became 80 00:05:18,120 --> 00:05:22,240 Speaker 1: known as Al Andalus. Christians started trying to retake the 81 00:05:22,279 --> 00:05:27,039 Speaker 1: peninsula almost immediately, but these efforts were largely unsuccessful until 82 00:05:27,040 --> 00:05:32,160 Speaker 1: the eleventh century. The Christian reconquest, known as the Reconquista, 83 00:05:32,600 --> 00:05:36,279 Speaker 1: escalated after Pope Innocent the third declared a crusade in 84 00:05:36,320 --> 00:05:39,280 Speaker 1: twelve twelve, and by the middle of the thirteenth century, 85 00:05:39,480 --> 00:05:42,360 Speaker 1: the Nazrid Kingdom of Granada was the only part of 86 00:05:42,400 --> 00:05:47,400 Speaker 1: the Iberian Peninsula still under Muslim control. Ferdinand the third 87 00:05:47,480 --> 00:05:51,440 Speaker 1: of Castile recognized Granada as a vassal state in twelve 88 00:05:51,480 --> 00:05:55,679 Speaker 1: thirty eight, but conflict between Muslims and Christians and among 89 00:05:55,720 --> 00:06:00,360 Speaker 1: different Muslim factions within Granada continued. Then in four fourteen 90 00:06:00,480 --> 00:06:04,440 Speaker 1: ninety two, Catholic monarchs Ferdinand and Isabella of Aragon and 91 00:06:04,520 --> 00:06:10,320 Speaker 1: Castile conquered Granada and that ended the Reconquista. That same year, 92 00:06:10,680 --> 00:06:14,839 Speaker 1: Ferdinand and Isabella issued the Alhambra Decree, which forced all 93 00:06:14,960 --> 00:06:18,680 Speaker 1: Jewish people living in their territory to convert to Christianity 94 00:06:19,160 --> 00:06:22,680 Speaker 1: or be expelled. We did an episode about all of 95 00:06:22,720 --> 00:06:27,920 Speaker 1: that in twenty fourteen. Earlier in the Reconquista, Muslim community's 96 00:06:28,040 --> 00:06:31,839 Speaker 1: surrender terms had typically included that they could continue to 97 00:06:31,880 --> 00:06:35,880 Speaker 1: practice their religion, but the reality was that Muslims faced 98 00:06:36,000 --> 00:06:39,560 Speaker 1: increasing persecution as more and more of the Iberian Peninsula 99 00:06:39,880 --> 00:06:44,880 Speaker 1: came under Christian control. Ferdinand and Isabella also moved away 100 00:06:44,920 --> 00:06:48,719 Speaker 1: from this at least nominal religious tolerance, and in fifteen 101 00:06:48,720 --> 00:06:52,640 Speaker 1: oh two Muslim residents of Castille were ordered to convert 102 00:06:52,720 --> 00:06:57,080 Speaker 1: to Christianity or leave. Muslims living in Aragon got the 103 00:06:57,120 --> 00:07:01,279 Speaker 1: same order in fifteen twenty six. Say It Elhura was 104 00:07:01,320 --> 00:07:04,560 Speaker 1: born in the midst of all of this change and conflict. 105 00:07:05,040 --> 00:07:08,200 Speaker 1: Various sources put her birth at some time between fourteen 106 00:07:08,279 --> 00:07:11,720 Speaker 1: eighty five and fourteen ninety five, and her brother Ibrahim 107 00:07:11,920 --> 00:07:14,920 Speaker 1: was born in fourteen ninety, so all just within a 108 00:07:14,960 --> 00:07:18,360 Speaker 1: few years of the fall of Granada. While the date 109 00:07:18,440 --> 00:07:21,160 Speaker 1: of her birth is unclear and sources are kind of 110 00:07:21,200 --> 00:07:25,280 Speaker 1: contradictory about whether she was born in Morocco or in Granada. 111 00:07:25,440 --> 00:07:29,080 Speaker 1: We do know she was raised in Schefshawan, which grew 112 00:07:29,120 --> 00:07:33,080 Speaker 1: from a fortress to a multicultural and multi lingual community. 113 00:07:33,640 --> 00:07:37,200 Speaker 1: Its leadership was Muslim. It was part of a Muslim sultanate, 114 00:07:37,320 --> 00:07:41,160 Speaker 1: but it was also home to Christians and Jews, and Moriscoes, 115 00:07:41,200 --> 00:07:43,440 Speaker 1: which is the term for Muslims who had been forced 116 00:07:43,520 --> 00:07:49,280 Speaker 1: to convert to Christianity. Arabs, Europeans, Africans, and people from 117 00:07:49,360 --> 00:07:52,760 Speaker 1: a number of Amazik tribes also known as Berbers also 118 00:07:52,920 --> 00:07:57,760 Speaker 1: lived there. This wasn't completely egalitarian or peaceful. There were 119 00:07:57,840 --> 00:08:01,920 Speaker 1: clear privileges associated with being Muslim, and there could be 120 00:08:01,960 --> 00:08:06,239 Speaker 1: conflicts among these different religious and cultural groups, but Chef 121 00:08:06,280 --> 00:08:10,200 Speaker 1: Chouin grew into a diverse and thriving community even in 122 00:08:10,240 --> 00:08:14,440 Speaker 1: the face of this ongoing conflict with Portugal. Said al 123 00:08:14,520 --> 00:08:18,120 Speaker 1: Hurra was a Sufi Muslim, and she was educated by 124 00:08:18,120 --> 00:08:23,040 Speaker 1: some of Chef Chawin's most respected scholars. She learned multiple languages, 125 00:08:23,080 --> 00:08:27,920 Speaker 1: including Arabic, Spanish, and Portuguese. In fifteen ten, she married 126 00:08:27,920 --> 00:08:31,840 Speaker 1: the governor of Tetuan, Mulay al Mandrie. There's a bit 127 00:08:31,880 --> 00:08:36,560 Speaker 1: of debate about which Mulay Almandri this actually was. Some 128 00:08:36,679 --> 00:08:40,040 Speaker 1: sources argue that it was Abu Hassan al Mandri, also 129 00:08:40,120 --> 00:08:43,800 Speaker 1: known as Ali Almandri, who refounded the city of Tetuan, 130 00:08:44,000 --> 00:08:47,840 Speaker 1: while others argue that it was actually Mohammed Almandri, who 131 00:08:48,000 --> 00:08:52,000 Speaker 1: was either his grandson or nephew and became governor of 132 00:08:52,040 --> 00:08:56,400 Speaker 1: Tetuan later so. Tetuan is a port on the Mediterranean 133 00:08:56,440 --> 00:09:00,439 Speaker 1: coast of Morocco, north of Chefchaoan and south of Ceta. 134 00:09:00,960 --> 00:09:04,160 Speaker 1: Today it's the UNESCO World Heritage Site. It had been 135 00:09:04,200 --> 00:09:08,400 Speaker 1: an important port connecting Morocco to al Andalous starting around 136 00:09:08,440 --> 00:09:12,079 Speaker 1: the time of the Muslim conquest of the Iberian Peninsula. 137 00:09:12,160 --> 00:09:16,160 Speaker 1: Tetuan was destroyed by a Castilian force in fourteen hundred 138 00:09:16,240 --> 00:09:19,480 Speaker 1: and then by a Portuguese force in fourteen thirty seven. 139 00:09:20,120 --> 00:09:24,280 Speaker 1: Tetuan was rebuilt for the third time in fourteen eighty four, 140 00:09:24,760 --> 00:09:28,360 Speaker 1: and it functioned as a largely independent city state within 141 00:09:28,440 --> 00:09:33,760 Speaker 1: the Watacid Sultanate. Like Chefhawin, Tetuan became home to people 142 00:09:33,840 --> 00:09:37,479 Speaker 1: who wanted or were forced to leave the Iberian Peninsula 143 00:09:37,800 --> 00:09:40,840 Speaker 1: after the fall of Grenada and the expulsion of Muslims 144 00:09:40,840 --> 00:09:45,920 Speaker 1: from Spanish territory. This caused some difficulties, including violence between 145 00:09:45,920 --> 00:09:49,520 Speaker 1: the newcomers, who were largely from the Iberian Peninsula, and 146 00:09:49,559 --> 00:09:53,960 Speaker 1: the Jabala Confederation who lived in the region. These groups 147 00:09:54,000 --> 00:09:57,120 Speaker 1: eventually came to terms, though, especially when it came to 148 00:09:57,240 --> 00:10:02,360 Speaker 1: trying to repel Portuguese invasions. Sayda Alhera's marriage was a 149 00:10:02,400 --> 00:10:06,880 Speaker 1: political one. It brought together the ruling families of Chefhauen 150 00:10:07,000 --> 00:10:10,440 Speaker 1: and Tituin. Both of these were vassal states of the 151 00:10:10,480 --> 00:10:15,560 Speaker 1: Wattsid Sultanate, and that was who ruled northern Morocco. This 152 00:10:15,760 --> 00:10:20,199 Speaker 1: united two very powerful families and two powerful vassal states. 153 00:10:20,240 --> 00:10:24,320 Speaker 1: It combined their forces to both resist European incursions into 154 00:10:24,360 --> 00:10:27,560 Speaker 1: Morocco and to try to unite various ethnic groups and 155 00:10:27,640 --> 00:10:32,040 Speaker 1: tribes and different factions within Morocco. It's likely that Sayida 156 00:10:32,080 --> 00:10:35,640 Speaker 1: al Here's education and upbringing allowed her to assist and 157 00:10:35,720 --> 00:10:39,839 Speaker 1: advise her husband in his role as governor, starting from 158 00:10:39,840 --> 00:10:43,560 Speaker 1: the very beginning of their marriage. Over time, she became 159 00:10:43,600 --> 00:10:47,880 Speaker 1: an informal co ruler, with that authority becoming more formal 160 00:10:48,160 --> 00:10:51,600 Speaker 1: when her husband was away on diplomatic or military matters. 161 00:10:52,400 --> 00:10:56,000 Speaker 1: Since Tetuan was a port, this probably also allowed her 162 00:10:56,040 --> 00:11:01,200 Speaker 1: to learn more about maritime and naval matters. Alhurra's husband 163 00:11:01,440 --> 00:11:06,120 Speaker 1: died in around fifteen nineteen. His brother wanted to take 164 00:11:06,160 --> 00:11:10,560 Speaker 1: control of Tetuan, but her brother Ibrahim, who had become 165 00:11:10,840 --> 00:11:15,160 Speaker 1: vizier to Sultan Ahmad al Waitasi in Fez, named her 166 00:11:15,240 --> 00:11:20,240 Speaker 1: as Albandrie's successor. It really was not typical for women 167 00:11:20,360 --> 00:11:23,520 Speaker 1: to take on this level of power, but Sayda Alhura 168 00:11:23,600 --> 00:11:26,760 Speaker 1: seems to have earned the people's trust they accepted her 169 00:11:26,760 --> 00:11:30,400 Speaker 1: in that position. The overall prominence of her family may 170 00:11:30,440 --> 00:11:32,840 Speaker 1: have played a role in this as well, and it 171 00:11:32,960 --> 00:11:36,040 Speaker 1: is likely that this is when she earned the title 172 00:11:36,120 --> 00:11:39,240 Speaker 1: of Saida Alhurra, if it indeed is a title in 173 00:11:39,280 --> 00:11:42,760 Speaker 1: her case. We will talk more about her story after 174 00:11:42,800 --> 00:11:55,520 Speaker 1: we paused for a sponsor break. When Sayda Alhurra became 175 00:11:55,640 --> 00:11:59,400 Speaker 1: governor of Tetuan, in addition to the ongoing conflicts with 176 00:11:59,520 --> 00:12:05,240 Speaker 1: Portugal and Spain, Morocco was facing an economic decline. Earlier, 177 00:12:05,280 --> 00:12:09,480 Speaker 1: we mentioned Portugal capturing port cities along the Mediterranean coast. 178 00:12:10,000 --> 00:12:13,960 Speaker 1: That was largely the work of Portuguese Prince Henrique d'avis, 179 00:12:14,320 --> 00:12:18,040 Speaker 1: who is known in English as Henry the Navigator. That 180 00:12:18,160 --> 00:12:22,080 Speaker 1: moniker comes from his funding of exploratory voyages down the 181 00:12:22,080 --> 00:12:26,360 Speaker 1: Atlantic coast of Africa, which he mostly did not personally 182 00:12:26,400 --> 00:12:30,600 Speaker 1: participate in. He just paid for these voyages, traded for 183 00:12:30,720 --> 00:12:35,160 Speaker 1: goods and precious metals, and enslaved people along the African coast, 184 00:12:35,280 --> 00:12:39,760 Speaker 1: as well as capturing territory and establishing forts and ports. 185 00:12:40,559 --> 00:12:44,800 Speaker 1: European sea voyages down the African coast continued after Henry 186 00:12:44,800 --> 00:12:49,000 Speaker 1: the Navigator's death in fourteen sixty, including through the voyages 187 00:12:49,040 --> 00:12:52,080 Speaker 1: of Vasco da Gama of Portugal, who rounded the Cape 188 00:12:52,080 --> 00:12:55,880 Speaker 1: of Good Hope in fourteen ninety seven. Vasco de Gama 189 00:12:56,160 --> 00:12:58,920 Speaker 1: was not the first European to sail around the southern 190 00:12:58,920 --> 00:13:02,120 Speaker 1: tip of Africa, but he was the first to successfully 191 00:13:02,160 --> 00:13:07,280 Speaker 1: go from there to the Indian subcontinent. Ultimately, his voyages 192 00:13:07,320 --> 00:13:11,080 Speaker 1: helped establish a maritime trade route between Western Europe and 193 00:13:11,160 --> 00:13:15,680 Speaker 1: South Asia. A sea route to India reduced the need 194 00:13:15,760 --> 00:13:19,720 Speaker 1: for goods to be moved across Africa and through Morocco 195 00:13:19,840 --> 00:13:24,040 Speaker 1: when being transported to and from Western Europe. So as 196 00:13:24,200 --> 00:13:27,840 Speaker 1: more goods traveled by sea, the Moroccan economy started to 197 00:13:27,920 --> 00:13:31,880 Speaker 1: decline and its merchant class started to shrink. That was 198 00:13:31,920 --> 00:13:35,720 Speaker 1: in addition to the ongoing conflicts with European powers over 199 00:13:35,880 --> 00:13:41,120 Speaker 1: territory and growing divisions within Morocco about whether to continue 200 00:13:41,160 --> 00:13:44,960 Speaker 1: fighting them. For example, after the death of Sayda al 201 00:13:45,040 --> 00:13:49,640 Speaker 1: Hurra's father, her brother Ibrahim took his place in Schifshawan 202 00:13:49,840 --> 00:13:53,960 Speaker 1: and took a more conciliatory approach with the Portuguese. This 203 00:13:54,080 --> 00:13:57,880 Speaker 1: included signing an armistice with the governor of Ceuta in 204 00:13:57,960 --> 00:14:01,040 Speaker 1: fifteen thirty eight. In the face of all of this, 205 00:14:01,360 --> 00:14:05,360 Speaker 1: said Alha needed to find a way to protect Tetuan 206 00:14:05,520 --> 00:14:09,280 Speaker 1: and help it prosper. According to some accounts, she teamed 207 00:14:09,360 --> 00:14:15,240 Speaker 1: up with two Ottoman privateers, Orushe and Haisi Reis. Reis 208 00:14:15,440 --> 00:14:19,320 Speaker 1: is another title used in the Ottoman Empire for naval officers. 209 00:14:20,240 --> 00:14:22,800 Speaker 1: Orushe and Hiser were both known by a number of 210 00:14:22,920 --> 00:14:28,440 Speaker 1: names and titles, and are sometimes conflated into one. Pirate Barbarosa, 211 00:14:28,480 --> 00:14:32,640 Speaker 1: also known as red Beard. Barbarosa actually means red beard 212 00:14:32,680 --> 00:14:37,080 Speaker 1: in Italian, but simply calling these men pirates does not 213 00:14:37,200 --> 00:14:40,360 Speaker 1: really seem correct. They were born on the island of 214 00:14:40,480 --> 00:14:44,000 Speaker 1: Lesbos in what's now Greece, which was Ottoman's territory. At 215 00:14:44,000 --> 00:14:47,360 Speaker 1: the time, their father was a potter, and they and 216 00:14:47,440 --> 00:14:51,080 Speaker 1: their other brothers started out in that trade before becoming sailors. 217 00:14:51,960 --> 00:14:55,200 Speaker 1: Orushe and Hzier were both experienced at sea by the 218 00:14:55,280 --> 00:14:59,440 Speaker 1: end of the Reconquista, and eventually that experience did start, 219 00:14:59,480 --> 00:15:04,480 Speaker 1: including attacking Spanish and Portuguese ships in the Mediterranean. Soon 220 00:15:04,880 --> 00:15:08,240 Speaker 1: they were hired as privateers in service of Corcud, who 221 00:15:08,320 --> 00:15:11,120 Speaker 1: was one of the sons of Ottoman Sultan by AzID 222 00:15:11,200 --> 00:15:15,160 Speaker 1: the second. Corcud was executed in a dispute over the 223 00:15:15,200 --> 00:15:18,760 Speaker 1: line of succession in fifteen thirteen, so for a time 224 00:15:18,880 --> 00:15:22,640 Speaker 1: these brothers didn't really have any official backing. But in 225 00:15:22,720 --> 00:15:26,160 Speaker 1: fifteen sixteen, the Emir of Algiers asked for their help 226 00:15:26,200 --> 00:15:30,080 Speaker 1: dealing with the Spanish, and after Orush's force captured the 227 00:15:30,120 --> 00:15:34,880 Speaker 1: city from them, the Ottomans named him governor. Spain later 228 00:15:34,920 --> 00:15:38,080 Speaker 1: retook the city and Orushe was killed in fifteen eighteen, 229 00:15:38,520 --> 00:15:41,560 Speaker 1: but Hyzer's force drove the Spanish out once again in 230 00:15:41,600 --> 00:15:46,640 Speaker 1: fifteen twenty nine. Eventually, Suliman the Magnificent, who we covered 231 00:15:46,640 --> 00:15:50,800 Speaker 1: on the show in twenty fourteen, made Hezer governor of Rhodes. 232 00:15:51,440 --> 00:15:55,640 Speaker 1: His forces later captured to Nice and afterwards, Suliman named 233 00:15:55,680 --> 00:15:59,400 Speaker 1: him Grand Admiral of the Ottoman Empire. He was later 234 00:15:59,480 --> 00:16:02,640 Speaker 1: named Chi Chief Governor of Ottoman North Africa, and he 235 00:16:02,760 --> 00:16:07,440 Speaker 1: died in Constantinople in fifteen forty six. In addition to 236 00:16:07,520 --> 00:16:12,040 Speaker 1: attacking and harassing Spanish and Portuguese ships and settlements before 237 00:16:12,080 --> 00:16:16,480 Speaker 1: his death, Oruche Reiz carried Muslim and Jewish refugees from 238 00:16:16,520 --> 00:16:20,800 Speaker 1: the Iberian Peninsula to Morocco. That took place mostly between 239 00:16:20,840 --> 00:16:23,680 Speaker 1: fifteen oh four and fifteen ten, and he earned the 240 00:16:23,800 --> 00:16:28,720 Speaker 1: nickname Baba Oruche or Father Oruge for doing this. Sayeda 241 00:16:28,760 --> 00:16:31,840 Speaker 1: Alha was part of this effort to rescue people who 242 00:16:31,840 --> 00:16:35,400 Speaker 1: were trying to flee the peninsula. Sources are a little 243 00:16:35,440 --> 00:16:40,360 Speaker 1: contradictory about exactly what Sayeda al Hua's relationship was with 244 00:16:40,680 --> 00:16:44,680 Speaker 1: Oruche and Hazir. In some accounts she actively hired them 245 00:16:44,720 --> 00:16:48,520 Speaker 1: as privateers, and others it was more like she allowed 246 00:16:48,640 --> 00:16:51,640 Speaker 1: her own leaders and commanders to work with them, or 247 00:16:51,680 --> 00:16:55,360 Speaker 1: she just tacitly allowed them to operate out of Tetuan. 248 00:16:56,080 --> 00:16:59,960 Speaker 1: There are other similarly contradictory descriptions of her work with us, 249 00:17:00,040 --> 00:17:04,200 Speaker 1: their privateers and pirates in the Mediterranean. She also built 250 00:17:04,200 --> 00:17:08,040 Speaker 1: a shipyard which the Ottoman Empire both used to build 251 00:17:08,200 --> 00:17:11,480 Speaker 1: ships and as a port to attack the Portuguese in 252 00:17:11,520 --> 00:17:15,320 Speaker 1: the Spanish, and she expanded the fleet that her husband 253 00:17:15,359 --> 00:17:19,520 Speaker 1: had amassed, one that both defended Morocco and attacked and 254 00:17:19,640 --> 00:17:24,280 Speaker 1: captured its enemies. This included capturing Europeans and holding them 255 00:17:24,320 --> 00:17:29,720 Speaker 1: for ransom. There's documentation of prisoners of various nationalities being 256 00:17:29,760 --> 00:17:34,080 Speaker 1: held in prison in Tetuan, and Sayda al Here's negotiations 257 00:17:34,119 --> 00:17:38,200 Speaker 1: with those home nations to get them released. That ransom 258 00:17:38,280 --> 00:17:42,479 Speaker 1: money and the cargo from captured ships helped Tetuan really 259 00:17:42,560 --> 00:17:47,359 Speaker 1: thrive economically. As for calling them pirates, it is definitely 260 00:17:47,400 --> 00:17:51,320 Speaker 1: true that Arush and Hyzer didn't always have some kind 261 00:17:51,320 --> 00:17:54,880 Speaker 1: of official authorization for what they were doing at sea. 262 00:17:55,000 --> 00:17:57,960 Speaker 1: Sometimes they did, but sometimes they were acting on their own. 263 00:17:58,680 --> 00:18:03,119 Speaker 1: But sayde al Herro was the official authorization. She was 264 00:18:03,200 --> 00:18:05,840 Speaker 1: governing Tetuan, and this was a time when a lot 265 00:18:05,880 --> 00:18:09,600 Speaker 1: of leaders and governments hired civilians to attack their enemies 266 00:18:09,640 --> 00:18:13,720 Speaker 1: at sea in addition to or instead of their own navies. 267 00:18:14,640 --> 00:18:19,679 Speaker 1: Some sources framed Sayda Alhura's enslaving of prisoners or imprisoning 268 00:18:19,720 --> 00:18:22,760 Speaker 1: them and then ransoming them back to their countries of 269 00:18:22,800 --> 00:18:26,399 Speaker 1: origin as sort of a dividing line, making her a 270 00:18:26,440 --> 00:18:30,119 Speaker 1: pirate rather than just a leader who was legitimately using 271 00:18:30,320 --> 00:18:34,320 Speaker 1: maritime mercenaries to defend her territory. But at this point, 272 00:18:34,440 --> 00:18:39,080 Speaker 1: taking enemies prisoner and ransoming them back to their native 273 00:18:39,119 --> 00:18:42,960 Speaker 1: countries was relatively common. A lot of countries were doing 274 00:18:43,000 --> 00:18:47,639 Speaker 1: this long before they became famous as corsairs. One of 275 00:18:47,920 --> 00:18:52,119 Speaker 1: Oruche and Tazir's brothers was killed by the Catholic military 276 00:18:52,240 --> 00:18:55,960 Speaker 1: order known as the Knights Hospitaller while on a trading voyage, 277 00:18:56,320 --> 00:19:00,320 Speaker 1: and Oruche was captured and imprisoned by them. Bi Bill 278 00:19:00,520 --> 00:19:04,480 Speaker 1: Hazir paid a ransom to get him out. Spain and 279 00:19:04,560 --> 00:19:08,919 Speaker 1: Portugal were also kidnapping and enslaving Africans, and over the 280 00:19:08,960 --> 00:19:12,720 Speaker 1: course of the sixteenth century, every major European power was 281 00:19:12,760 --> 00:19:17,119 Speaker 1: involved in trafficking people out of Africa. In the paper 282 00:19:17,400 --> 00:19:22,480 Speaker 1: Said al Hura and early modern decolonial Muslim exemplar, doctor 283 00:19:22,600 --> 00:19:25,199 Speaker 1: Jason Idris Sparks points out that a lot of what 284 00:19:25,320 --> 00:19:29,360 Speaker 1: said Alhurra was doing seems pretty comparable to the actions 285 00:19:29,400 --> 00:19:34,840 Speaker 1: of her contemporary Queen Elizabeth I, including Elizabeth hiring privateer 286 00:19:34,880 --> 00:19:39,520 Speaker 1: Francis Drake and eventually knighting him. Beyond that, a big 287 00:19:39,600 --> 00:19:43,920 Speaker 1: motivating factor for both Sayid al Hura and the Barbarossa 288 00:19:44,080 --> 00:19:49,440 Speaker 1: Brothers was defending Muslim territory, including their own homes, against 289 00:19:49,480 --> 00:19:54,879 Speaker 1: European incursions or retaliating against attacks on Muslims on the 290 00:19:54,920 --> 00:19:59,639 Speaker 1: Iberian Peninsula during their lifetimes. The brothers home of Lesbos 291 00:19:59,720 --> 00:20:03,040 Speaker 1: was all so attacked and besieged during wars between the 292 00:20:03,080 --> 00:20:07,720 Speaker 1: Ottoman Empire and Venice. We've already talked about how Sayda 293 00:20:07,760 --> 00:20:10,119 Speaker 1: Alhura grew up in a place that was home to 294 00:20:10,320 --> 00:20:14,119 Speaker 1: refugees who had to flee the Iberian Peninsula, and after 295 00:20:14,160 --> 00:20:18,080 Speaker 1: her marriage, her home of Tetuan was continually under threat. 296 00:20:18,960 --> 00:20:22,080 Speaker 1: We talked in our recent Flying Gang episode about the 297 00:20:22,200 --> 00:20:25,960 Speaker 1: rise of piracy in the Caribbean in the eighteenth century 298 00:20:26,000 --> 00:20:30,680 Speaker 1: being tied to international disputes and economic factors, But all 299 00:20:30,760 --> 00:20:33,320 Speaker 1: of the stuff that we have been talking about seems 300 00:20:33,400 --> 00:20:37,240 Speaker 1: a lot more directly personal to Sayida Alhura and the 301 00:20:37,240 --> 00:20:41,320 Speaker 1: Barbarossa Brothers than the Caribbean was to a lot of 302 00:20:41,359 --> 00:20:45,560 Speaker 1: the European pirates who operated out of there. More broadly, 303 00:20:45,920 --> 00:20:48,560 Speaker 1: accounts from the Arab world are more likely to frame 304 00:20:48,640 --> 00:20:52,040 Speaker 1: said l her actions in her work with privateers as 305 00:20:52,080 --> 00:20:55,480 Speaker 1: a legitimate form of warfare, and it also may have 306 00:20:55,520 --> 00:21:00,000 Speaker 1: had religious elements, including a religious obligation to protect Muslims 307 00:21:00,440 --> 00:21:04,040 Speaker 1: and Muslim lands. A depiction of her at the Kasbom 308 00:21:04,160 --> 00:21:07,879 Speaker 1: Museum in chef Shaoin calls her a princess of Jahad, 309 00:21:08,320 --> 00:21:11,359 Speaker 1: a term that combines both struggle and duty in the 310 00:21:11,400 --> 00:21:15,359 Speaker 1: context of Islam, framing her so called piracy as a 311 00:21:15,400 --> 00:21:18,920 Speaker 1: holy war that she had a spiritual mandate to take 312 00:21:18,960 --> 00:21:23,640 Speaker 1: on Before we move on, the northern coast of Africa, 313 00:21:23,720 --> 00:21:27,320 Speaker 1: known at the time as the Barbary Coast, became very 314 00:21:27,400 --> 00:21:31,720 Speaker 1: heavily associated with piracy and the idea of Barbary pirates. 315 00:21:32,280 --> 00:21:36,040 Speaker 1: The number of pirates operating in this area really increased 316 00:21:36,080 --> 00:21:38,960 Speaker 1: in the early sixteen hundreds, and that was decades after 317 00:21:39,000 --> 00:21:42,760 Speaker 1: the deaths of Said al Hura and Urush and Hizier Race. 318 00:21:43,680 --> 00:21:46,320 Speaker 1: But some of the cities that the brothers captured and 319 00:21:46,440 --> 00:21:50,040 Speaker 1: transferred to the Ottoman Empire became known as part of 320 00:21:50,080 --> 00:21:55,560 Speaker 1: the Barbary states, which employed state sponsored piracy, which you 321 00:21:55,680 --> 00:22:00,600 Speaker 1: could also call privateering against European and later America in ships. 322 00:22:01,200 --> 00:22:05,240 Speaker 1: Sometimes the Barbarossa Brothers in particular are characterized as really 323 00:22:05,320 --> 00:22:09,919 Speaker 1: planting the seeds of this flourishing of quote Barbary piracy. 324 00:22:10,760 --> 00:22:14,960 Speaker 1: Many European powers paid tributes to the Barbary states so 325 00:22:15,119 --> 00:22:18,080 Speaker 1: their ships would be left alone, but the US did 326 00:22:18,119 --> 00:22:20,920 Speaker 1: not want to do that, ultimately leading to the nineteenth 327 00:22:20,960 --> 00:22:25,480 Speaker 1: century Barbary Wars. These wars ended with an overall victory 328 00:22:25,520 --> 00:22:28,320 Speaker 1: for the United States with treaty terms that put an 329 00:22:28,480 --> 00:22:32,320 Speaker 1: end to these tribute payments, but piracy continued from the 330 00:22:32,359 --> 00:22:36,080 Speaker 1: northern coast of Africa until the French conquest of Algeria 331 00:22:36,240 --> 00:22:39,879 Speaker 1: in eighteen thirty. Oh we'll talk about more about Sayd 332 00:22:39,920 --> 00:22:52,200 Speaker 1: al Hura after a sponsor break. To get back to 333 00:22:52,240 --> 00:22:56,200 Speaker 1: Sayd al Hura. She governed Tetwan for more than twenty years, 334 00:22:56,320 --> 00:22:59,720 Speaker 1: and during that time the city state really prospered, and 335 00:23:00,000 --> 00:23:03,320 Speaker 1: fifteen forty one, roughly two decades after the death of 336 00:23:03,359 --> 00:23:07,000 Speaker 1: her first husband, Sultan i'm Ed al Waitasi of Fez, 337 00:23:07,280 --> 00:23:10,280 Speaker 1: asked to marry her. At this point, she would have 338 00:23:10,320 --> 00:23:15,040 Speaker 1: been in her fifties or maybe early sixties. Typically, the 339 00:23:15,080 --> 00:23:18,520 Speaker 1: sultan's bride to be would travel to Fees to be 340 00:23:18,600 --> 00:23:22,480 Speaker 1: married there. It was a sultanate within capital somewhere else. 341 00:23:22,520 --> 00:23:24,920 Speaker 1: They would travel to that capital and then they would 342 00:23:24,920 --> 00:23:28,760 Speaker 1: remain there in the capital after the wedding. But Sayda 343 00:23:28,800 --> 00:23:32,760 Speaker 1: al Hura refused to leave Tetuan. The Sultan traveled to 344 00:23:32,840 --> 00:23:36,080 Speaker 1: her and after the wedding she stayed where she was 345 00:23:36,160 --> 00:23:40,199 Speaker 1: and continued to rule Tetuan. This is not how it 346 00:23:40,280 --> 00:23:43,600 Speaker 1: normally worked at all. I have a story for what 347 00:23:43,720 --> 00:23:47,359 Speaker 1: is a normal wedding on her behind the scenes. Like 348 00:23:47,480 --> 00:23:51,760 Speaker 1: her earlier marriage, this one was political. As we said earlier, 349 00:23:51,800 --> 00:23:55,159 Speaker 1: while Tetuan was a vassal state of the Watasea Sultanate, 350 00:23:55,400 --> 00:23:59,440 Speaker 1: it operated largely as an independent entity. So this was 351 00:23:59,480 --> 00:24:02,160 Speaker 1: a marriage between the Sultan and the leader of one 352 00:24:02,160 --> 00:24:07,440 Speaker 1: of the Sultanate's most prosperous and powerful vassal states. By extension, 353 00:24:07,680 --> 00:24:10,680 Speaker 1: it also made a connection between the Sultan and said 354 00:24:10,680 --> 00:24:15,600 Speaker 1: al Hura's family home of chef Schawin. This drew comparisons 355 00:24:15,640 --> 00:24:19,240 Speaker 1: to the marriage of Ferdinand and Isabella, uniting the kingdoms 356 00:24:19,240 --> 00:24:22,480 Speaker 1: of Aragon and Castile, and that's seen as the foundation 357 00:24:22,680 --> 00:24:27,480 Speaker 1: of Spain as a modern state. More generally, said Alhura 358 00:24:27,520 --> 00:24:31,520 Speaker 1: was probably the most powerful woman in Morocco and the 359 00:24:31,760 --> 00:24:35,359 Speaker 1: what is It Sultanate, which controlled northern Morocco, was trying 360 00:24:35,400 --> 00:24:40,040 Speaker 1: to strengthen itself against the Saudi Sultanate, which ruled western 361 00:24:40,200 --> 00:24:44,960 Speaker 1: Morocco from its capital in Marrakesh. But as this was happening, 362 00:24:45,160 --> 00:24:49,679 Speaker 1: Said al Hura's rule in Tetuan started to slip. Ongoing 363 00:24:49,680 --> 00:24:54,040 Speaker 1: disputes with the Portuguese city of Ceuta ultimately led Ceuta 364 00:24:54,400 --> 00:24:58,520 Speaker 1: to cut off trading ties with Tetuan. This didn't totally 365 00:24:58,600 --> 00:25:01,760 Speaker 1: cut off Tetuan's wealth by any stretch, but the city 366 00:25:01,840 --> 00:25:05,720 Speaker 1: did see a drop in prosperity. Then, in fifteen forty two, 367 00:25:06,000 --> 00:25:09,800 Speaker 1: Sayd Alhura's son in law, mulay Ahmed al Hassan Almandri, 368 00:25:10,160 --> 00:25:14,600 Speaker 1: overthrew her in a coup. He cut ties with the 369 00:25:14,640 --> 00:25:19,280 Speaker 1: whitestied Sultanate and apparently expected the Saudis to take over. 370 00:25:19,880 --> 00:25:24,280 Speaker 1: That is ultimately what happened. The Saudis captured Fees in 371 00:25:24,320 --> 00:25:28,080 Speaker 1: fifteen forty nine, and they moved the capital of the 372 00:25:28,119 --> 00:25:32,639 Speaker 1: sultanate Twufees. In sixteen oh three, the family of Said 373 00:25:32,720 --> 00:25:36,120 Speaker 1: Alhara's late first husband and at least one of her 374 00:25:36,320 --> 00:25:41,000 Speaker 1: surviving brothers, sided with the Saudis. During all this, the 375 00:25:41,080 --> 00:25:44,320 Speaker 1: Sadis retook a lot of the territory in Morocco that 376 00:25:44,400 --> 00:25:48,800 Speaker 1: Portugal had seized and occupied. While Sayid Alhara was not 377 00:25:48,960 --> 00:25:52,840 Speaker 1: directly involved with this, her ongoing maritime efforts against the 378 00:25:52,880 --> 00:25:56,680 Speaker 1: Spanish and Portuguese are seen as helping set the stage 379 00:25:56,680 --> 00:26:01,280 Speaker 1: for the Sadis to reclaim more territory. Morocco also fought 380 00:26:01,280 --> 00:26:03,960 Speaker 1: off the Ottoman Empire's attempt to take control in the 381 00:26:04,000 --> 00:26:08,040 Speaker 1: sixteenth century, and remained an independent sultanate until after the 382 00:26:08,040 --> 00:26:12,120 Speaker 1: French conquest of Algeria in eighteen thirty that we mentioned earlier. 383 00:26:13,160 --> 00:26:18,399 Speaker 1: After that, international disputes in and around Morocco escalated, including 384 00:26:18,480 --> 00:26:22,480 Speaker 1: the Scramble for Africa by the European powers, and Morocco 385 00:26:22,640 --> 00:26:27,120 Speaker 1: ultimately becoming a protectorate of France in nineteen twelve. Morocco 386 00:26:27,280 --> 00:26:32,840 Speaker 1: regained its independence in nineteen fifty six. Meanwhile, Ceuta was 387 00:26:32,960 --> 00:26:38,360 Speaker 1: Portuguese territory during Sayda al Hurra's lifetime. It was passed 388 00:26:38,400 --> 00:26:43,320 Speaker 1: to Spain in fifteen eighty. Ceuta and Mittia, on the 389 00:26:43,359 --> 00:26:47,720 Speaker 1: northern coast of Morocco both continue to be Spanish presidios today. 390 00:26:48,920 --> 00:26:52,520 Speaker 1: Ceuta has been in international news as we are recording this. 391 00:26:53,400 --> 00:26:55,359 Speaker 1: When the episode comes out, that will be two weeks 392 00:26:55,359 --> 00:26:56,960 Speaker 1: in the past, and I do not know how the 393 00:26:57,040 --> 00:27:01,000 Speaker 1: situation will have developed by them. She was overthrown by 394 00:27:01,000 --> 00:27:03,679 Speaker 1: her son in law, said al Hurrah, was stripped of 395 00:27:03,680 --> 00:27:07,120 Speaker 1: her possessions, and she returned home to chef Chowin. She 396 00:27:07,160 --> 00:27:10,719 Speaker 1: still had family there. We don't know much about her 397 00:27:10,760 --> 00:27:13,040 Speaker 1: life after that, but we do know that she died 398 00:27:13,080 --> 00:27:16,760 Speaker 1: on July fourteenth, fifteen sixty one. At that point she 399 00:27:16,760 --> 00:27:20,720 Speaker 1: would have been in her sixties or seventies. According to 400 00:27:20,760 --> 00:27:23,640 Speaker 1: some accounts, she retired to a Sufi lodge in chef 401 00:27:23,720 --> 00:27:26,159 Speaker 1: Chowin had spent the rest of her life focused on 402 00:27:26,240 --> 00:27:30,120 Speaker 1: spiritual and religious pursuits. As far as we know, she 403 00:27:30,280 --> 00:27:34,320 Speaker 1: never had any children. There is some speculation that one 404 00:27:34,440 --> 00:27:37,879 Speaker 1: reason for the lack of documentation about her life and 405 00:27:38,000 --> 00:27:41,200 Speaker 1: rule of Tetuan is that later leaders of the city 406 00:27:41,760 --> 00:27:45,680 Speaker 1: found her legacy threatening or they didn't want to acknowledge 407 00:27:45,720 --> 00:27:48,720 Speaker 1: how much it had flourished while she a woman was 408 00:27:48,800 --> 00:27:53,000 Speaker 1: in charge. A lot of the contemporary or near contemporary 409 00:27:53,080 --> 00:27:56,760 Speaker 1: mentions of her are from Europeans, which is also connected 410 00:27:56,760 --> 00:27:59,280 Speaker 1: to why she is so often framed as a pirate, 411 00:28:00,119 --> 00:28:02,800 Speaker 1: rather than as the leader of a city state or 412 00:28:02,880 --> 00:28:06,000 Speaker 1: the queen of the sultanate. As we said at the 413 00:28:06,000 --> 00:28:08,440 Speaker 1: top of the show, there have been some papers about 414 00:28:08,440 --> 00:28:12,280 Speaker 1: Sayid Alhera in recent years. One is the paper by 415 00:28:12,320 --> 00:28:16,119 Speaker 1: doctor Jason Idriss Sparks that we mentioned earlier. It was 416 00:28:16,160 --> 00:28:19,480 Speaker 1: published in the journal Religions in twenty twenty five, and 417 00:28:19,520 --> 00:28:22,080 Speaker 1: it makes a case that Sayid Alhura is an early 418 00:28:22,160 --> 00:28:27,160 Speaker 1: example of decolonial thought. Another is by doctor Amal Elheimer 419 00:28:27,440 --> 00:28:30,840 Speaker 1: of the University of Kansas. She grew up in Morocco 420 00:28:30,960 --> 00:28:34,320 Speaker 1: and traveled there to look for information on Sayda Alhura. 421 00:28:35,119 --> 00:28:39,200 Speaker 1: She found primary and secondary sources that weren't available in English, 422 00:28:39,200 --> 00:28:43,040 Speaker 1: and then translated those herself and talked to historians in 423 00:28:43,160 --> 00:28:46,840 Speaker 1: Morocco who knew more about her. In addition to this 424 00:28:47,120 --> 00:28:50,600 Speaker 1: more recent academic work, in twenty sixteen, there was a 425 00:28:50,720 --> 00:28:56,200 Speaker 1: TV series about Sayda Alhura on Moroccan television. I don't 426 00:28:56,240 --> 00:29:01,560 Speaker 1: know much more about that other than that it happened. Uh. 427 00:29:01,960 --> 00:29:05,280 Speaker 1: I'm so glad you picked this one. Oh good, because 428 00:29:05,320 --> 00:29:08,760 Speaker 1: she's interesting to me. Do you have listener mail for us? 429 00:29:09,120 --> 00:29:11,680 Speaker 1: I do have listener mail viewers from Netflix I'm gonna 430 00:29:11,680 --> 00:29:14,600 Speaker 1: have to read it from my phone because of reasons. 431 00:29:15,520 --> 00:29:19,640 Speaker 1: This says, Hi, Ho, Holly and Tracy Kell here from 432 00:29:19,720 --> 00:29:22,880 Speaker 1: the Morocco trip. I hope you're both doing well, I call. 433 00:29:23,600 --> 00:29:26,680 Speaker 1: I didn't on purpose pick this because it's Kel from 434 00:29:26,720 --> 00:29:30,320 Speaker 1: the Morocco trip. That is a coincidence. But we love Kel, 435 00:29:30,640 --> 00:29:32,920 Speaker 1: but we love Kel, Kel said, I meant to write 436 00:29:32,920 --> 00:29:35,440 Speaker 1: in about sneakers, and then Unearthed happened and I had 437 00:29:35,480 --> 00:29:38,440 Speaker 1: to write you about Shakespeare, and so now you get both. 438 00:29:38,800 --> 00:29:41,760 Speaker 1: Shakespeare first. I was very excited to hear the news 439 00:29:41,800 --> 00:29:46,320 Speaker 1: on Unearthed about the firm location of Shakespeare's London house, 440 00:29:46,720 --> 00:29:49,800 Speaker 1: which I had somehow missed. I did my MFA in 441 00:29:49,920 --> 00:29:54,040 Speaker 1: staging Shakespeare, and we spent two weeks each year studying 442 00:29:54,080 --> 00:29:58,360 Speaker 1: at the reconstructed Globe and poking about southern hot Tip. 443 00:29:58,880 --> 00:30:01,360 Speaker 1: Look up the pronunciation of that if you don't already 444 00:30:01,400 --> 00:30:04,400 Speaker 1: know it. One fun thing about England is that the 445 00:30:04,400 --> 00:30:06,840 Speaker 1: country is so old and their structures have been in 446 00:30:06,880 --> 00:30:09,360 Speaker 1: the same place for so long that you often run 447 00:30:09,400 --> 00:30:13,600 Speaker 1: into situations like this. They'll locate something of historical interest 448 00:30:13,720 --> 00:30:16,600 Speaker 1: but can't excavate because there is a different building of 449 00:30:16,760 --> 00:30:20,880 Speaker 1: historical interest built on top of it. There may not 450 00:30:20,960 --> 00:30:24,040 Speaker 1: be anything to excavate with this building, but this is 451 00:30:24,080 --> 00:30:28,160 Speaker 1: the case with the actual Shakespeare's Globe Theater. They found 452 00:30:28,200 --> 00:30:30,680 Speaker 1: the location of the foundations and half of it is 453 00:30:30,760 --> 00:30:33,280 Speaker 1: under a car park, but the other half is under 454 00:30:33,280 --> 00:30:37,320 Speaker 1: a building that is also landmarked eighteenth century if I 455 00:30:37,360 --> 00:30:41,080 Speaker 1: remember correctly. They can't do any excavating without disturbing the 456 00:30:41,120 --> 00:30:44,280 Speaker 1: nearby structure, even though we'd love to dig around and 457 00:30:44,320 --> 00:30:48,080 Speaker 1: the Globe's dirt nearby. There are also the foundations of 458 00:30:48,120 --> 00:30:52,600 Speaker 1: the Rose Theater, where Shakespeare performed prior to the building 459 00:30:52,600 --> 00:30:56,440 Speaker 1: of the Globe and later a rival theater. Its foundations 460 00:30:56,440 --> 00:30:59,400 Speaker 1: were discovered when they went to build a huge office 461 00:30:59,400 --> 00:31:03,160 Speaker 1: building in the eighties. Actors from Laurence Olivier to Dustin 462 00:31:03,240 --> 00:31:06,320 Speaker 1: Hoffman and Judy Dench were out protesting trying to keep 463 00:31:06,360 --> 00:31:10,240 Speaker 1: them from bulldozing the site. In the end, they built 464 00:31:10,240 --> 00:31:12,880 Speaker 1: the building over top of the theater, but altered the 465 00:31:12,920 --> 00:31:15,760 Speaker 1: structure at the bottom to preserve the foundations. It's pretty 466 00:31:15,760 --> 00:31:19,120 Speaker 1: spectacular engineering, and now we have a viewing space can 467 00:31:19,160 --> 00:31:22,720 Speaker 1: continue to research and they sometimes put on events. A 468 00:31:22,800 --> 00:31:26,520 Speaker 1: quick note on sneakers and swing dancing since i've talked 469 00:31:26,560 --> 00:31:29,160 Speaker 1: so much about Shakespeare and early modern theaters, I could 470 00:31:29,160 --> 00:31:32,160 Speaker 1: go on all day. First of all, thank you for 471 00:31:32,240 --> 00:31:38,320 Speaker 1: explaining to me why all my British friends call them plimsols. Second, 472 00:31:38,400 --> 00:31:42,000 Speaker 1: I wondered if you knew that Ked's slash plimsol styled 473 00:31:42,040 --> 00:31:46,640 Speaker 1: shoes were the favorite shoes of former podcast subject Frankie Manning, 474 00:31:47,280 --> 00:31:51,240 Speaker 1: Whitey's Lyndy Hoppers and other swing dancers. The picture used 475 00:31:51,280 --> 00:31:53,720 Speaker 1: on the cover of his autobiography is of him and 476 00:31:53,800 --> 00:31:56,400 Speaker 1: another dancer doing an airstep, and both of them are 477 00:31:56,440 --> 00:31:59,760 Speaker 1: wearing that style of shoe. These shoes are still favored 478 00:31:59,800 --> 00:32:03,040 Speaker 1: by swing dancers today, although in a twist I find hilarious, 479 00:32:03,080 --> 00:32:05,800 Speaker 1: we often have to put leather on the soules so 480 00:32:05,880 --> 00:32:09,600 Speaker 1: they will spin daring turns. The rubber grip on the 481 00:32:09,640 --> 00:32:13,040 Speaker 1: bottom of today's shoes is often too much for dancing, 482 00:32:13,080 --> 00:32:16,280 Speaker 1: but I assume that the material slash texture was different 483 00:32:16,360 --> 00:32:18,680 Speaker 1: in the thirties and forties and they had the right 484 00:32:18,720 --> 00:32:21,880 Speaker 1: amount of traction on the wooden dance floors. A future 485 00:32:21,880 --> 00:32:25,080 Speaker 1: podcast on Norma Miller, another of White East Lindy Hoppers, 486 00:32:25,080 --> 00:32:27,720 Speaker 1: would be fantastic. I saw her speak at New Orleans 487 00:32:27,760 --> 00:32:29,400 Speaker 1: when she was close to one hundred, and she was 488 00:32:29,400 --> 00:32:33,600 Speaker 1: a real spitfire, flirting with the guys and still dancing. PS. 489 00:32:33,680 --> 00:32:36,960 Speaker 1: We're very excited to be coming to Germany and Checchia 490 00:32:37,520 --> 00:32:39,880 Speaker 1: with you this fall. Until then, Kell, so thank you 491 00:32:39,920 --> 00:32:42,720 Speaker 1: so much Kel for this email. For a couple reasons. One, 492 00:32:42,800 --> 00:32:46,160 Speaker 1: I love all of this about the Shakespeare me too. Great. 493 00:32:46,920 --> 00:32:50,200 Speaker 1: I don't think I remembered or maybe didn't know, you 494 00:32:50,280 --> 00:32:54,480 Speaker 1: had an MFA in staging Shakespeare. That's great. The other 495 00:32:54,560 --> 00:32:58,000 Speaker 1: reason is I meant to talk about wearing kads for 496 00:32:58,160 --> 00:33:01,840 Speaker 1: swing dancing in the behind the scenes of the Sneakers episode, 497 00:33:02,560 --> 00:33:06,840 Speaker 1: and then I forgot you did. Did we talk about 498 00:33:06,840 --> 00:33:09,280 Speaker 1: it in the behind the scenes, No, because I didn't. 499 00:33:09,600 --> 00:33:12,560 Speaker 1: Did you swing dance? Do you swing dance? Yeah? So 500 00:33:12,640 --> 00:33:15,960 Speaker 1: I never knew. Yeah, this is a thing that I 501 00:33:16,000 --> 00:33:19,440 Speaker 1: did a while ago. We were owned by a company 502 00:33:19,440 --> 00:33:22,080 Speaker 1: that gave us a health and wellness benefit and you 503 00:33:22,200 --> 00:33:30,000 Speaker 1: could get reimbursed for a GEM membership or class you 504 00:33:30,040 --> 00:33:34,120 Speaker 1: were taking, and I could get reimbursed for swing dancing classes. 505 00:33:35,200 --> 00:33:38,080 Speaker 1: So fun, and I went through multiple levels of swing 506 00:33:38,200 --> 00:33:42,120 Speaker 1: dance classes and then I took some Lindy Hop classes. 507 00:33:42,240 --> 00:33:45,400 Speaker 1: Lindy Hop was a lot of fun, and people talked 508 00:33:45,400 --> 00:33:50,719 Speaker 1: about liking to wear kids for their lending hopping, and 509 00:33:50,760 --> 00:33:53,400 Speaker 1: I got a pair of keads that were super cute 510 00:33:53,920 --> 00:33:57,840 Speaker 1: and then did find them too grippy on the floor. 511 00:33:59,280 --> 00:34:02,280 Speaker 1: When I would go out social dancing, that was the 512 00:34:02,280 --> 00:34:04,080 Speaker 1: thing that I did a while. One of the reasons 513 00:34:04,160 --> 00:34:07,360 Speaker 1: was to get out of my comfort zone. Yeah, I 514 00:34:08,040 --> 00:34:10,640 Speaker 1: am not always comfortable in group settings. I'm not always 515 00:34:10,640 --> 00:34:13,319 Speaker 1: good at talking to people. Social dancing was a lot 516 00:34:13,360 --> 00:34:15,320 Speaker 1: of fun. I have not done it in many years. 517 00:34:15,400 --> 00:34:17,920 Speaker 1: I think the last swing dancing that I did was 518 00:34:17,960 --> 00:34:22,759 Speaker 1: when Patrick and I took classes before our wedding and 519 00:34:22,840 --> 00:34:27,400 Speaker 1: we danced our first dance at our reception, and I 520 00:34:27,560 --> 00:34:31,000 Speaker 1: don't think we have done it since. I also have 521 00:34:31,160 --> 00:34:35,400 Speaker 1: very strong memories of that dance. Oh because probably not 522 00:34:35,440 --> 00:34:37,360 Speaker 1: for the reason I mean, not that it was very sweet. 523 00:34:37,480 --> 00:34:39,480 Speaker 1: Is it because you were afraid the beads were going 524 00:34:39,560 --> 00:34:43,400 Speaker 1: to fly off my dress? Yeah? Yeah, yeah they did not, 525 00:34:43,640 --> 00:34:47,480 Speaker 1: or if they did not, to an appreciable amount. Well, 526 00:34:47,520 --> 00:34:50,480 Speaker 1: I in case any listeners don't know or remember, I 527 00:34:50,560 --> 00:34:54,160 Speaker 1: made Tracy's wedding dress. I added a lot of beads 528 00:34:54,440 --> 00:34:59,520 Speaker 1: we hadn't discussed. I was like more bead fringe, which 529 00:35:00,120 --> 00:35:02,920 Speaker 1: in my defense was terrific, but it was as you 530 00:35:02,960 --> 00:35:05,920 Speaker 1: guys were whipping around, I was like, oh, dear Grido, 531 00:35:06,040 --> 00:35:10,040 Speaker 1: please don't let beads fly everywhere and make this entire 532 00:35:10,880 --> 00:35:14,160 Speaker 1: venue like a hazard for everyone because they were little, 533 00:35:14,239 --> 00:35:17,479 Speaker 1: tiny seed beads. But they didn't. They all stayed in place. 534 00:35:17,520 --> 00:35:20,480 Speaker 1: I'm happy to report they stayed there. So thank you 535 00:35:20,520 --> 00:35:24,640 Speaker 1: so much, Kel for this email and for giving me 536 00:35:24,680 --> 00:35:26,399 Speaker 1: the chance to say something that I meant to say 537 00:35:26,840 --> 00:35:30,320 Speaker 1: in our behind the scenes episode on Sneakers, which I 538 00:35:30,400 --> 00:35:33,120 Speaker 1: forgot to talk about, and for being grand. We love Kel. 539 00:35:33,560 --> 00:35:36,160 Speaker 1: I had a great time with Kel in Chef showIn 540 00:35:36,560 --> 00:35:38,600 Speaker 1: we can talk more about Chef Showen and the behind 541 00:35:38,640 --> 00:35:42,879 Speaker 1: the scenes of this episode. Can't wait. So thanks for writing, Kel. 542 00:35:42,960 --> 00:35:45,520 Speaker 1: I look forward to seeing you again. If you would 543 00:35:45,640 --> 00:35:48,360 Speaker 1: like to send us a note, We're a history podcast 544 00:35:48,440 --> 00:35:51,920 Speaker 1: at iHeartRadio dot com. If you would like to see 545 00:35:52,040 --> 00:35:54,839 Speaker 1: the show notes to this episode, where we list all 546 00:35:54,920 --> 00:35:57,960 Speaker 1: of the papers and other resources that we used, including 547 00:35:58,040 --> 00:36:00,600 Speaker 1: the two that we specifically mentioned. That is at History 548 00:36:00,719 --> 00:36:05,279 Speaker 1: podcast at iHeartRadio dot com, and you can subscribe to 549 00:36:05,320 --> 00:36:07,480 Speaker 1: the show on the iHeartRadio app, but anywhere else you 550 00:36:07,600 --> 00:36:15,439 Speaker 1: like to get your podcasts. Stuff you Missed in History 551 00:36:15,480 --> 00:36:19,839 Speaker 1: Class is a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, 552 00:36:20,040 --> 00:36:23,600 Speaker 1: visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen 553 00:36:23,680 --> 00:36:24,640 Speaker 1: to your favorite shows.