WEBVTT - How Project Star Gate Worked 0:00:00.080 --> 0:00:03.000 Hey, everybody, it's Josh and Chuck your friends, and we 0:00:03.080 --> 0:00:05.880 are here to tell you about our upcoming book that's 0:00:05.920 --> 0:00:09.080 coming out this fall, the first ever Stuff you Should 0:00:09.080 --> 0:00:12.160 Know book, Chuck. That's right. What's the cool, super cool 0:00:12.200 --> 0:00:15.640 title we came up with. It's Stuff you Should Know colon, 0:00:16.120 --> 0:00:20.439 an incomplete compendium of mostly interesting things. That's right, and 0:00:20.480 --> 0:00:23.480 it's coming along so great. We're super excited, you guys. 0:00:23.720 --> 0:00:28.040 The illustrations are amazing, and there's the look of the book. 0:00:28.080 --> 0:00:30.639 It's all just it's exactly what we hoped it would be. 0:00:30.680 --> 0:00:32.440 And we cannot wait for you to get your hands 0:00:32.440 --> 0:00:34.720 on it. Yes, we can't. Um, and you don't have 0:00:34.800 --> 0:00:36.479 to wait. Actually, well you do have to wait, but 0:00:36.479 --> 0:00:38.400 you don't have to wait to order. You can go 0:00:38.479 --> 0:00:41.800 pre order the book right now everywhere you get books, 0:00:42.200 --> 0:00:46.600 and you will eventually get a special gift for pre ordering, 0:00:46.640 --> 0:00:49.400 which we're working on right now. That's right, So check 0:00:49.440 --> 0:00:53.519 it out soon coming this fall. Welcome to Stuff you 0:00:53.520 --> 0:01:02.760 Should Know, a production of My Heart Radios How Stuff Works. Hey, 0:01:02.840 --> 0:01:06.360 and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark, There's Charles 0:01:06.440 --> 0:01:10.039 w Chuck Bryan over there. Jerry's here floating around the 0:01:10.080 --> 0:01:14.600 office somewhere, but she's here. Everybody's back. Yes, Jerry is 0:01:14.680 --> 0:01:17.640 here in the flesh. She does exist, she's real. She 0:01:17.720 --> 0:01:21.679 also has clothed, not just flesh. That's right. And because 0:01:21.720 --> 0:01:24.440 the three of us are hanging out even on the 0:01:24.440 --> 0:01:27.959 internet's it's it's stuff you should know. Yeah, it's good 0:01:27.959 --> 0:01:30.600 to see her. Her hair is long. She's like a 0:01:30.680 --> 0:01:33.600 hippie now, I mean long for Jerry is not very long, 0:01:33.680 --> 0:01:39.759 but it's swoopier than usual and looks quite nice. That's great, man, show. 0:01:39.840 --> 0:01:45.480 She cares. She's staying home. Stay home, save lives, Jerry. Yeah, 0:01:45.520 --> 0:01:49.640 that's right. Uh, you know what else may have saved lives? Chuck, 0:01:50.320 --> 0:01:55.120 Project Stargate, Project Stargate. Do you know when why I 0:01:55.240 --> 0:02:00.880 hedged and said that it may have saved lives? Why? Well, 0:02:00.920 --> 0:02:03.880 I mean, you tell your version, but I mean, because 0:02:03.920 --> 0:02:06.360 we don't even know if this stuff is real or not. Yeah, 0:02:06.520 --> 0:02:08.560 I it's gonna say that I said it may have 0:02:08.680 --> 0:02:12.040 saved lives because it totally didn't save any lives as 0:02:12.120 --> 0:02:15.800 far as you know, it's a bunch of made up 0:02:15.840 --> 0:02:20.239 gobbledy cook um and a CIA boondoggle and u S 0:02:20.320 --> 0:02:24.760 military boondoggle from the seventies to the nineties, but some 0:02:24.800 --> 0:02:28.120 fun anecdotal stories though it is. It is like it's 0:02:28.160 --> 0:02:30.760 one of the more interesting chapters in CIA history, and 0:02:30.880 --> 0:02:33.760 CIA history is awfully interesting. It has a lot of 0:02:33.800 --> 0:02:37.679 interesting horrific chapters. This one's not horrific. I think that's 0:02:37.680 --> 0:02:40.359 one of the big differences of it is it's just interesting. 0:02:40.360 --> 0:02:43.560 There's not a lot of horror to it um. I know, 0:02:43.880 --> 0:02:47.760 the menusteric goats by our pel John Ronson really kind 0:02:47.760 --> 0:02:51.040 of devolves into horror towards the end of it um 0:02:51.040 --> 0:02:53.320 when he gets an mk ultra. But this is separate 0:02:53.360 --> 0:02:56.520 from NK mk Ultra. It came from the same mindset 0:02:56.760 --> 0:02:59.880 for sure, this idea that there are powers to the mind, 0:03:00.000 --> 0:03:03.600 I could consumably be unlocked to do ill or good 0:03:03.720 --> 0:03:08.080 or neutral stuff. Who knows. But this one, it was 0:03:08.360 --> 0:03:12.840 fairly benign as far as CIA projects go, don't you think, Yeah, 0:03:12.960 --> 0:03:15.079 and believe it or not, I never saw that movie. 0:03:16.680 --> 0:03:19.520 It was okay, That's why I didn't, I think. I 0:03:19.520 --> 0:03:22.240 mean it had everything I love in a movie, which 0:03:22.280 --> 0:03:27.360 is Jeff Bridges and George Clooney and John Malkovich, but 0:03:27.520 --> 0:03:29.679 have some funny spots in it too, for sure. Yeah, 0:03:29.840 --> 0:03:31.280 I don't know why that one got past me. I 0:03:31.280 --> 0:03:33.240 think I've read tepid reviews and I just kind of 0:03:33.360 --> 0:03:36.920 was like, Yeah, if you watched it, you would not 0:03:37.160 --> 0:03:39.320 think that you would just you would not want the 0:03:39.400 --> 0:03:42.080 two hours of your life back. But you wouldn't just 0:03:42.120 --> 0:03:44.960 be like, I'm going to dedicate my life to making 0:03:44.960 --> 0:03:47.240 sure everybody sees this movie. It wouldn't be like that. 0:03:47.680 --> 0:03:49.960 And I haven't read the book. Sorry, John, if you 0:03:50.000 --> 0:03:54.600 even listen to us anymore, But um, like, I'm quite 0:03:54.640 --> 0:03:57.840 sure from what I understand, the book is is vastly 0:03:57.880 --> 0:04:01.040 superior to the movie. Which when does that ever happened? Sure? 0:04:01.120 --> 0:04:05.000 If John Ronson's hands were involved in his brain, then 0:04:05.120 --> 0:04:07.720 I'm sure it was better. I love that guy. Yeah, 0:04:07.760 --> 0:04:10.320 he's a good guy. Didn't like to wear shoes for 0:04:10.360 --> 0:04:12.680 people who might not have seen him. Here's another fun 0:04:12.760 --> 0:04:15.200 fact that you probably don't know. He was on one 0:04:15.200 --> 0:04:20.039 of the first editions of movie Crush and he sits. 0:04:21.600 --> 0:04:25.880 He swears that he sits on the very front row, 0:04:26.200 --> 0:04:31.320 far left seat. That's torture. It's torture. I don't it 0:04:31.440 --> 0:04:34.120 was so weird. No, I know I heard that episode. 0:04:34.240 --> 0:04:40.080 His His movie was Annie Right, No, not true. What 0:04:40.120 --> 0:04:41.680 was it? Do you remember? It was let the right 0:04:41.720 --> 0:04:45.080 One in? Oh man, that's a great movie. Yeah, sure is. 0:04:45.160 --> 0:04:46.560 And if you know, if you ever go to a 0:04:46.600 --> 0:04:49.560 movie theater New York and you see some guy front 0:04:49.800 --> 0:04:52.600 shoes with no shoes, then go tap him on the 0:04:52.600 --> 0:04:56.279 shoulder and ask for his autography. UM. Okay, so we're 0:04:56.320 --> 0:05:00.760 talking Projects Stargate, which was the general name for this 0:05:00.880 --> 0:05:04.480 secret project that was declassified around two thousand, I think, 0:05:05.080 --> 0:05:08.640 which is it's very telling that it was declassified in 0:05:08.680 --> 0:05:13.359 two thousand because the project was finally canceled in. Normally, 0:05:13.680 --> 0:05:16.880 when the CIA connects the project, especially if that project 0:05:16.920 --> 0:05:21.760 yields valuable stuff, they don't declassify it in just five years. 0:05:22.000 --> 0:05:24.760 It takes decades before that stuff starts to trickle out. 0:05:25.279 --> 0:05:27.960 But with Project Stargate, um, they said, here you go, 0:05:28.040 --> 0:05:34.200 here's everything. Yeah, that's great reading. Um. But this this 0:05:34.279 --> 0:05:40.240 project ran from officially I believe, nineteen seventy five, and 0:05:40.240 --> 0:05:42.400 I had a different couple of different names, and it 0:05:42.520 --> 0:05:46.680 got passed along from different um different agencies. But the 0:05:46.720 --> 0:05:50.760 whole thing started even back before the CIA got involved. 0:05:51.080 --> 0:05:53.840 And from what I saw, there was a woman Soviet 0:05:53.880 --> 0:05:58.960 woman named new Nell Coolognia, who was on TV in 0:05:59.000 --> 0:06:02.960 the Soviet Union and she was demonstrating her telekinesis, and 0:06:03.040 --> 0:06:09.440 apparently some defense intelligence analysts saw this TV show and said, Hey, 0:06:09.480 --> 0:06:12.720 I think this the Soviets might have some sort of 0:06:12.760 --> 0:06:15.160 mind weapon that we might want to look at. And 0:06:15.200 --> 0:06:19.520 it scared the Bejesus out of the United States, and 0:06:19.560 --> 0:06:22.599 they got busy trying their own hand, starting with the 0:06:22.720 --> 0:06:25.039 USS Nautilus, the first submarine to make it to the 0:06:25.080 --> 0:06:27.680 North Pole. Yeah. I think what's so funny about the 0:06:27.680 --> 0:06:32.880 early history of this is that, um, the Russians started 0:06:32.920 --> 0:06:35.320 doing it because they thought we were doing it, and 0:06:35.360 --> 0:06:37.839 we started doing it because we thought they were doing it. 0:06:37.920 --> 0:06:40.840 And I don't know if either one of us technically 0:06:40.960 --> 0:06:46.040 were officially doing it. No, no, so yeah, they're the 0:06:46.480 --> 0:06:49.880 woman on TV. Did not necessarily mean the Soviets had 0:06:49.920 --> 0:06:53.279 some sort of program, but it was that whole goofy 0:06:53.360 --> 0:06:56.880 Cold War thing where it's like, if if there's even 0:06:56.960 --> 0:06:59.800 the slightest possibility the Russians are up to something, we've 0:06:59.800 --> 0:07:01.679 got to do that too, and then do it better. 0:07:02.040 --> 0:07:04.480 And they had the exact same mentality. So there was 0:07:04.520 --> 0:07:07.960 a constant arms race for everything, including E S p 0:07:08.640 --> 0:07:12.200 and what we'll we'll find out was called remote viewing. Yeah, 0:07:12.240 --> 0:07:13.760 I mean that's kind of the deal. I guess we 0:07:13.760 --> 0:07:16.600 should tell everyone what this means. Um, it's sort of 0:07:16.640 --> 0:07:20.280 like a uh in an addition of Karnak the Magnificent 0:07:21.120 --> 0:07:23.360 from the Johnny Carson Show. At least this is how 0:07:23.400 --> 0:07:27.400 they trained. And we'll get into that specifically, but it was, Hey, 0:07:28.080 --> 0:07:32.640 you have a gift. Maybe we're gonna test you to see, 0:07:33.040 --> 0:07:35.360 but sit in this room and tell us if you 0:07:35.400 --> 0:07:39.600 can locate whatever a missile base in the Soviet Union, 0:07:39.880 --> 0:07:43.560 or a hostage in the Middle East, or just whatever 0:07:43.600 --> 0:07:46.600 they needed to know that they didn't know. They're like, 0:07:46.880 --> 0:07:50.400 just sit here quietly and and think it into reality. 0:07:51.080 --> 0:07:53.440 And uh. That was sort of the basis of the 0:07:53.480 --> 0:07:57.560 program was it was a trying to use SI P 0:07:57.800 --> 0:08:01.640 s I, which we've talked about before. You are political 0:08:01.760 --> 0:08:05.960 and I guess military advantage. Yeah. Yeah, so, I mean 0:08:06.160 --> 0:08:09.120 in that respect, it was really again very benign. They 0:08:09.120 --> 0:08:12.840 weren't trying to explode somebody's head, although there were reports 0:08:12.880 --> 0:08:16.520 of of programs like that, but with Project Stargate specifically, 0:08:16.520 --> 0:08:20.400 it was just people trying to come up with descriptions 0:08:20.680 --> 0:08:23.920 of secret places or like you said, the location of 0:08:23.960 --> 0:08:28.640 certain people. Just kind of astra Lei projecting is another 0:08:28.680 --> 0:08:31.800 way to put it. Clairvoyance is another way to put it, 0:08:31.840 --> 0:08:34.800 but just kind of not just reading somebody else's mind, 0:08:35.120 --> 0:08:38.199 but actually traveling somewhere else in the world and connecting 0:08:38.240 --> 0:08:41.480 into a person or a thing or a place and 0:08:41.520 --> 0:08:46.400 getting that information remotely through means other than the normal senses. 0:08:46.640 --> 0:08:49.199 And that's why another reason um or that's why reason. 0:08:49.400 --> 0:08:52.160 Another name for remote viewing, which is what it came 0:08:52.200 --> 0:08:56.560 to be called, is anomalous cognition, which is you've got 0:08:56.600 --> 0:09:00.000 this information. You're getting this this info that you normally 0:09:00.160 --> 0:09:03.120 get from like your ears or your eyes or your 0:09:03.120 --> 0:09:05.520 tongue or something like that, but you're getting it just 0:09:05.559 --> 0:09:08.600 into your mind. You're sure, Hey, go lick that thing, 0:09:08.679 --> 0:09:11.319 tell me what you think. See if you can figure 0:09:11.320 --> 0:09:13.360 out the secret code word, get into that base by 0:09:13.400 --> 0:09:17.120 licking the keypad. But the I mean, you know, you're not. 0:09:17.160 --> 0:09:20.400 You're getting it from um not just your sensory perception. 0:09:20.520 --> 0:09:24.360 It's an extra sensory perception, right, is that what that means? 0:09:24.720 --> 0:09:27.160 That's what that means. Right. So that's the whole jam 0:09:27.200 --> 0:09:30.240 with this, is that the CIA and then the Soviets 0:09:30.240 --> 0:09:32.520 had their own thing going on too. We're saying like, 0:09:32.800 --> 0:09:38.119 let's do this. Let's use this potential capability to um 0:09:38.280 --> 0:09:39.880 to see if it works, and if it does work, 0:09:39.960 --> 0:09:42.439 let's use it to gather intelligence without having to go anywhere, 0:09:42.600 --> 0:09:45.240 without having to spend virtually any money on this. Just 0:09:45.320 --> 0:09:47.360 like you said, put him in a room maybe with 0:09:47.400 --> 0:09:50.760 some saltines and some grape coolation. Let him relax and 0:09:50.760 --> 0:09:54.040 and figure it out. Yeah. So in seventy two is 0:09:54.080 --> 0:09:58.280 when the d i A, the Defense Intelligence Agency, first 0:09:58.360 --> 0:10:02.720 got wind of the Soviets potentially doing this for real, 0:10:03.520 --> 0:10:05.880 and the CIA said, all right, you know what, We're 0:10:05.880 --> 0:10:09.880 gonna start funding these private research firms to see if 0:10:09.880 --> 0:10:14.280 this is possible. And seventy three, uh, this started happening 0:10:14.320 --> 0:10:18.960 at the s r I International in California, which stood 0:10:19.000 --> 0:10:23.320 originally for Stanford Research Institute, but they weren't a part 0:10:23.320 --> 0:10:25.840 of Stanford at the time. And there was a guy 0:10:25.920 --> 0:10:30.760 there named Dr Russell targ who was one of the researchers, 0:10:30.920 --> 0:10:34.000 and he wrote a book called Mind Race, which is 0:10:34.000 --> 0:10:37.520 a great title for something like this, and he had 0:10:37.559 --> 0:10:43.959 some like early examples of sessions that he thought sounded 0:10:43.960 --> 0:10:47.440 promising at least, right, I was gonna say, I'm not 0:10:47.480 --> 0:10:50.760 sure how he got into it though, but he I 0:10:50.800 --> 0:10:52.400 don't know if he was already into it and then 0:10:52.400 --> 0:10:54.720 the d I A Got into it or started funding 0:10:55.160 --> 0:10:57.160 him or something like that. But from yeah, from what 0:10:57.200 --> 0:10:59.040 I can tell you's the earliest one. I bet he 0:10:59.120 --> 0:11:03.360 was into it. But not for you know, espionage type 0:11:03.360 --> 0:11:05.840 purposes or anything like that. No, No, I think it 0:11:05.960 --> 0:11:08.800 was just kind of like this early, you know, beginning 0:11:08.840 --> 0:11:11.520 of the New Age movement. This guy was like on 0:11:11.600 --> 0:11:15.080 the leading edge of that whole thing. So in nineteen 0:11:15.200 --> 0:11:18.640 seventy six there was this experiment that he championed, is like, hey, 0:11:18.679 --> 0:11:22.360 look this good work. Everyone. There was a remote viewer 0:11:23.120 --> 0:11:25.840 someone in the offices in California, their s R. I 0:11:26.080 --> 0:11:29.400 and Dr targ was in New York City and no 0:11:29.440 --> 0:11:32.319 one knew anything about where he was supposedly, I think 0:11:32.320 --> 0:11:35.720 we're gonna say supposedly a lot in this podcast. And 0:11:35.760 --> 0:11:40.680 they said, all right, where am I? And he said, well, um, 0:11:41.200 --> 0:11:46.080 let me see in my brain. I'm seeing something. Um, 0:11:46.120 --> 0:11:51.240 I'm seeing a subment depression. It's almost like a dry fountain. Yes, 0:11:51.400 --> 0:11:54.439 there's a submit post in the middle and there are 0:11:54.520 --> 0:12:00.360 pigeons flying around? Oh my god, Doctor targ said, Hell, 0:12:00.600 --> 0:12:04.120 I'm in Washington Square Park and the fountain is empty. Yeah. 0:12:04.320 --> 0:12:08.120 And and Chuck, there's pigeons pooping everywhere because it's in 0:12:08.160 --> 0:12:12.760 New York. Yes. And so like with this this apparently 0:12:12.960 --> 0:12:17.080 successful remote viewing session, Dr targ Um was able to 0:12:17.120 --> 0:12:20.040 get funding from the d i A at first, and 0:12:20.120 --> 0:12:23.440 that's where really kind of kicked off this whole study 0:12:23.640 --> 0:12:25.800 that one I think came through in seventies six, but 0:12:25.880 --> 0:12:29.560 it's certainly kept his funding going. But he had, um, 0:12:29.600 --> 0:12:34.960 he had anecdotal data from remote viewing sessions previous to 0:12:35.000 --> 0:12:37.320 this that really kind of kick things off. And so 0:12:37.640 --> 0:12:39.640 the CIA is like, well, I mean, if this guy 0:12:39.720 --> 0:12:43.040 can sit there and and figure out that this guy 0:12:43.080 --> 0:12:46.520 is in Washington Square Park just with his mind's i 0:12:47.440 --> 0:12:51.800 you know, without right, no licking at all, certainly no 0:12:51.880 --> 0:12:55.960 pigeons are being let here. Um that like, like, we 0:12:56.040 --> 0:12:59.280 could probably put that to good use, having him think 0:12:59.320 --> 0:13:03.760 about Soviet stuff and we can steal their secrets that way, 0:13:03.800 --> 0:13:06.520 That's right. And in nineteen seventy six we had a 0:13:06.559 --> 0:13:10.320 president elect and Jimmy Carter, who you know, asked a 0:13:10.320 --> 0:13:13.160 couple of questions around the the office, and he got 0:13:13.200 --> 0:13:16.960 in touch with Uri Geller, the famous Yuri Geller. He's 0:13:17.000 --> 0:13:19.760 a great mentalist. If you haven't, we've talked about him 0:13:19.760 --> 0:13:21.880 plenty of times. I feel like, yeah, but I really 0:13:21.880 --> 0:13:24.240 want to do just enough to show on him. He's 0:13:24.280 --> 0:13:27.040 pretty great. Did you know that he ended up getting 0:13:27.360 --> 0:13:32.360 very rich by dowsing for oil companies? Really, can you 0:13:32.440 --> 0:13:36.079 believe that? I can. I can't do because I think 0:13:36.080 --> 0:13:38.640 oil companies will pay anybody anything if they think it 0:13:38.640 --> 0:13:43.360 will lead to oil. You give me some oil, So 0:13:43.559 --> 0:13:46.480 Carter said, Um. He had a private meeting with him 0:13:46.480 --> 0:13:48.800 and he kind of asked about what was going on, 0:13:48.840 --> 0:13:52.400 and Geller said, you know, these Russians they school are 0:13:52.400 --> 0:13:56.559 They screen school kids and see if anyone has particular talents, 0:13:56.600 --> 0:14:00.679 like paranormal power talents, and they send them to special 0:14:00.679 --> 0:14:03.719 places to be trained. And Carter said, well, maybe we 0:14:03.760 --> 0:14:06.680 should look into this. It's nineteen seventy seven now, and 0:14:06.720 --> 0:14:08.720 they didn't find any evidence of that kind of thing. 0:14:09.320 --> 0:14:11.880 But by this point the chicken was out of the coope, 0:14:11.920 --> 0:14:13.680 I think, and they were going to spend a little 0:14:13.679 --> 0:14:16.280 bit of money to kind of pursue this. Yes, I 0:14:16.320 --> 0:14:18.960 think the only evidence that that little line that you're 0:14:19.000 --> 0:14:21.760 a Geller gave to Jimmy Carter was that Eurie Geller 0:14:21.800 --> 0:14:26.320 had seen escape to Witch Mountain the year before. I mean, 0:14:26.640 --> 0:14:29.360 that's the problem with all of this is like BS 0:14:29.480 --> 0:14:34.080 begets more BS. So Eurie Geller had a meeting with Carter, 0:14:34.240 --> 0:14:38.480 started talking out of his a and the next thing, 0:14:38.520 --> 0:14:40.520 you know, the United States is funding and study to 0:14:40.560 --> 0:14:44.080 find out whether it's true. It's like, come on, yeah, 0:14:44.400 --> 0:14:46.600 I like I have to. I'm gonna just fess up here. 0:14:47.040 --> 0:14:50.800 I was very bugged the entire time I was researching 0:14:50.840 --> 0:14:54.640 this particular one. It was like crop circles all over again. Yeah, 0:14:54.680 --> 0:14:56.920 but more fun than crop circles. I think it was 0:14:57.000 --> 0:14:58.600 more fun. But you know what kind of stuck the 0:14:58.600 --> 0:15:00.400 fun out of it for me? All this ahead and 0:15:00.440 --> 0:15:01.800 say it now. I was going to save it for 0:15:01.840 --> 0:15:04.800 the end, but I read something somewhere that really kind 0:15:04.800 --> 0:15:08.200 of drove at home that the problem with like this 0:15:08.320 --> 0:15:12.520 kind of stuff is that if you if you let 0:15:12.520 --> 0:15:14.680 it really kind of get a foothold or get started, 0:15:15.640 --> 0:15:19.600 it paves the way for the kind of thinking that 0:15:19.760 --> 0:15:24.720 just doubts science and that that doubts expertise. And then 0:15:24.760 --> 0:15:26.560 it's like, no, no, don't you know, like people can 0:15:26.600 --> 0:15:29.400 bend spoons, you don't need to like, you know, you 0:15:29.440 --> 0:15:32.800 don't you don't have to believe in science. This stuff happens. 0:15:32.880 --> 0:15:35.800 This is really right, exactly, And then all of a 0:15:35.840 --> 0:15:39.280 sudden you have people believing anything that they hear. That's 0:15:39.360 --> 0:15:41.320 the problem with it, and it really bugged me, especially 0:15:41.400 --> 0:15:43.600 on today of all days. You know. Yeah, of course, 0:15:44.560 --> 0:15:49.240 so um around and we don't know all this stuff 0:15:49.240 --> 0:15:51.440 for sure, because a lot of the stuff is still 0:15:51.600 --> 0:15:54.800 I don't know if it's still top secret. But um, 0:15:54.920 --> 0:15:57.520 the timelines aren't like you know, we don't know specific dates. 0:15:57.520 --> 0:16:01.040 But around seventy the c i A stopped funding this 0:16:01.880 --> 0:16:04.880 and the Army said, hey, we'll take over, no problem, 0:16:04.960 --> 0:16:06.840 a bunch of money we don't know what to do with. Yeah, 0:16:06.880 --> 0:16:09.640 and how about a cool army code name. We'll call 0:16:09.680 --> 0:16:14.040 it Project grill Flame one word. I don't know why 0:16:14.320 --> 0:16:16.160 that's weird. Well, I think that's the point of a 0:16:16.160 --> 0:16:18.520 project name. It's meant to kind of baffle you. I 0:16:18.520 --> 0:16:20.640 think some of them are kind of cool and relatable 0:16:20.680 --> 0:16:23.080 to the thing now. But to me, it's like, well, 0:16:23.160 --> 0:16:26.160 you don't want any outsider, what the project is about 0:16:26.240 --> 0:16:30.080 you know, that's true plowshare plow Okay, you're right, that 0:16:30.240 --> 0:16:32.760 was a really good one. You're right. So Project Grill 0:16:32.840 --> 0:16:36.560 Flame from the Army was based in Maryland at Fort Meade, 0:16:37.520 --> 0:16:40.920 and they had remote viewers or people who claimed to 0:16:40.920 --> 0:16:44.640 be remote viewers or show talent as remote viewers in 0:16:44.920 --> 0:16:47.200 barracks and they would do the car neck routine. They 0:16:47.240 --> 0:16:52.240 would hand them an envelope and said what's inside, And 0:16:52.280 --> 0:16:55.280 that was kind of the extent of their testing at first. Yeah, 0:16:55.480 --> 0:16:59.400 um they would um, well they were allowed to open 0:16:59.520 --> 0:17:02.280 the envelope. I'm sure they would just once I was 0:17:02.280 --> 0:17:07.000 a joke put into their forehead. Um, but um, they 0:17:07.000 --> 0:17:09.399 would give them. They would give them a car like 0:17:09.440 --> 0:17:13.560 an envelope with maybe somebody's picture, maybe a note card 0:17:13.640 --> 0:17:17.760 that has latitude and longitude typed on it, maybe somebody's 0:17:17.840 --> 0:17:20.280 name that was it, and they were told to think 0:17:20.280 --> 0:17:23.280 about that latitude and longitude or told to concentrate on 0:17:23.320 --> 0:17:26.600 that person's picture or think about their name, and they 0:17:26.600 --> 0:17:29.800 wanted all the information that came. And so when it 0:17:29.840 --> 0:17:32.040 was latitude and longitude, typically you would know like you 0:17:32.080 --> 0:17:37.040 were supposed to be um viewing remotely a like a 0:17:37.119 --> 0:17:40.800 site or some sort of secret base or some sort 0:17:40.840 --> 0:17:44.640 of weapon or satellite dish or radartist or something like that. 0:17:45.240 --> 0:17:49.200 UM and if it was a person you know, who knows, 0:17:49.280 --> 0:17:51.879 maybe they were a lost person. And some of these people, 0:17:51.960 --> 0:17:56.160 some of these remote viewing UM subjects, would would say 0:17:56.160 --> 0:17:58.119 like I need a little more info or something like that, 0:17:58.160 --> 0:18:00.040 and then it would kind of get them going, and 0:18:00.080 --> 0:18:03.719 then they would write down what their impressions were. They 0:18:03.720 --> 0:18:06.840 would maybe dictated, they would draw it, maybe they would 0:18:06.840 --> 0:18:10.880 do all three and then after twenty minutes, thirty minutes, 0:18:10.920 --> 0:18:14.879 however long they dedicated to it, they would stop and 0:18:14.960 --> 0:18:18.040 all of their info would be taken away and then analyzed, 0:18:18.840 --> 0:18:25.320 analyzed by a defense intelligence analyst CIA analyst an NSA 0:18:25.359 --> 0:18:29.560 analyst who knows somebody whose job was going through intelligence 0:18:29.600 --> 0:18:33.240 that was given to them by spies and satellites and 0:18:33.280 --> 0:18:35.919 all that would every once in a a while get a 0:18:35.920 --> 0:18:40.960 package slip to them between that had somebody had literally 0:18:41.119 --> 0:18:44.679 pulled out of thin air and put down in words 0:18:44.720 --> 0:18:47.640 and here you go. See if this this holds up 0:18:47.760 --> 0:18:50.919 or helps you in any way in figuring out what's 0:18:51.040 --> 0:18:53.879 in that mountain in the urals. Yeah, So there was 0:18:53.920 --> 0:18:59.879 a guy named Joseph mcmonagle, and he was he worked 0:19:00.119 --> 0:19:03.240 as a he was a recruit for for grill Flame, 0:19:03.320 --> 0:19:05.960 and he worked into the nineties. And he has some 0:19:05.960 --> 0:19:10.240 pretty good stories. And there's a lot of good stories 0:19:10.280 --> 0:19:13.040 in here. And is this stuff true? Is the thing? 0:19:14.160 --> 0:19:16.160 Like it was frustrating you think this stuff is all 0:19:16.200 --> 0:19:18.919 made up? I here's the thing. For every one of 0:19:18.960 --> 0:19:20.920 his stories, I went and tried to cross for infant 0:19:21.200 --> 0:19:26.320 with with declassified CIA documents. I couldn't find anything. Like 0:19:26.400 --> 0:19:30.440 all of the guys stories are anecdotal. Here's the problem. 0:19:30.480 --> 0:19:34.280 They get reported not necessarily as fact, but they get 0:19:34.280 --> 0:19:36.919 reported in like, you know, an actual profile of the 0:19:36.920 --> 0:19:40.320 guy in the Washington Post Newsweight or something on this podcast, 0:19:40.680 --> 0:19:42.119 and then all of a sudden, right, and then all 0:19:42.119 --> 0:19:45.239 of a sudden, when somebody cross references some weird thing 0:19:45.560 --> 0:19:48.280 they read in some fringe e book, it pops up 0:19:48.280 --> 0:19:52.520 in a Washington Post article too. That's true, that's true. 0:19:52.560 --> 0:19:55.359 It's just bad reporting. That is that is continuing this 0:19:55.440 --> 0:19:57.240 to go on. But as far as I know, I 0:19:57.280 --> 0:20:02.199 could not find any corroboration from any declassified documents for 0:20:02.280 --> 0:20:05.399 any of his stories. So one of his examples in 0:20:05.480 --> 0:20:08.320 nineteen seventy nine. He said that he was he could 0:20:08.320 --> 0:20:11.840 see where sky Lab, the very famous satellite in the 0:20:11.920 --> 0:20:16.080 nineteen seventies and eighties, was going to crash eleven months before. 0:20:16.240 --> 0:20:20.120 So this is also precognition, which is another part of PSI. 0:20:21.080 --> 0:20:25.560 And in one UH and supposedly that was correct. In in 0:20:25.480 --> 0:20:28.439 in nineteen eighty one, he also got another tip, a 0:20:28.480 --> 0:20:32.400 mental hot tip that there was a hostage Brigadier General 0:20:32.520 --> 0:20:36.320 James Dozier that was being held in UH. I don't 0:20:36.359 --> 0:20:40.960 know if it's Padua or Padua, Italy Padua Padua either one. 0:20:41.320 --> 0:20:45.640 I think it is Padua. And supposedly the tip arrived 0:20:45.760 --> 0:20:48.359 in Italy and the day that he was released in 0:20:48.359 --> 0:20:51.879 that very town. UH. What else? What about the the 0:20:51.960 --> 0:20:55.120 KGB agent, This one's pretty great. So there's a KGB 0:20:55.280 --> 0:20:58.400 agent in South Africa that the CIA had been watching 0:20:58.440 --> 0:21:01.560 in the in I guess thineteen eighty and they couldn't 0:21:01.560 --> 0:21:05.920 figure out how he was contacting his KGB handlers back 0:21:05.960 --> 0:21:11.280 in in Mother Russia. And um, I guess McGonagall or mcmonagle. 0:21:11.520 --> 0:21:15.240 Um it was focused on a calculator. He saw that 0:21:15.280 --> 0:21:18.399 this guy really was obsessed with his calculator. And it 0:21:18.400 --> 0:21:21.119 turns out when the CIA looked at his calculatory, figured 0:21:21.160 --> 0:21:23.639 out it was a short wave radio. And also just 0:21:23.800 --> 0:21:27.439 check the guy's calculator. Sure, like checking all the electronics 0:21:27.440 --> 0:21:30.679 that he has. He has a cigarette lighter and a calculator. 0:21:30.720 --> 0:21:32.720 We looked at the cigarette lighter, found nothing. We just 0:21:32.760 --> 0:21:35.480 gave up after that. Yeah, we looked at the calculator 0:21:35.520 --> 0:21:39.600 and held it upside down and just said, bubblis who. 0:21:39.600 --> 0:21:42.960 It was one of those remember the professor ones thinking 0:21:43.119 --> 0:21:48.080 the mortar cap and all that. You know, There was 0:21:48.119 --> 0:21:50.720 one that had a drawing of like an old wise 0:21:50.800 --> 0:21:54.600 man with a graduation cap on. It was a pretty famous, 0:21:54.640 --> 0:22:00.560 like seventies calculator for kids. Oh, you mean the calculator itself. Yeah, no, 0:22:00.680 --> 0:22:02.000 I think you know what you're talking about. I thought 0:22:02.000 --> 0:22:04.040 you meant some weird trick where you type in numbers 0:22:04.040 --> 0:22:05.480 and turn it upside down and it says, oh and 0:22:05.480 --> 0:22:07.240 it looks like a guy. Oh I see. I was like, 0:22:07.280 --> 0:22:10.640 that's pretty impressive, right, You're like, I can just type boobs. 0:22:11.520 --> 0:22:15.800 So in eight five, the d i a uh took 0:22:15.840 --> 0:22:18.840 control of this program. I guess took it back from 0:22:18.840 --> 0:22:22.160 the army. It seems like nobody wanted it, like every 0:22:22.160 --> 0:22:23.919 few years they would just be like, who wants to 0:22:23.920 --> 0:22:26.400 take this over now? But the thing is, it kept 0:22:26.400 --> 0:22:29.520 getting funding and from what I read, either target Edwin 0:22:29.600 --> 0:22:33.520 May who comes in later um as the director of 0:22:33.760 --> 0:22:36.680 this program. Like they said it was a year to 0:22:36.800 --> 0:22:39.720 year funding, but it kept getting funding every year for 0:22:39.760 --> 0:22:42.520 twenty years. I would think I would think too that 0:22:42.560 --> 0:22:46.040 like once it went from one agency to another, maybe 0:22:46.240 --> 0:22:50.360 it would survive once. But it survived all these transitions. Yeah, 0:22:50.400 --> 0:22:54.560 so they take it back in five and started funding 0:22:55.320 --> 0:22:58.000 s r I again international. They're back on the scene. 0:22:58.560 --> 0:23:01.320 And then another contract after a private contractor came on 0:23:01.359 --> 0:23:07.120 called Science Applications International Corporation, also in California. And this 0:23:07.200 --> 0:23:11.159 is where they name it Stargate in nine. And it 0:23:11.240 --> 0:23:14.160