1 00:00:03,200 --> 00:00:06,200 Speaker 1: Welcome to stuff Mom never told you from how stup 2 00:00:06,240 --> 00:00:13,800 Speaker 1: Works not Come. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. I'm 3 00:00:13,880 --> 00:00:16,360 Speaker 1: Kristen and I'm Caroline. And the theme for this week 4 00:00:16,480 --> 00:00:20,680 Speaker 1: is if she builds It? Because on Monday we talked 5 00:00:20,680 --> 00:00:25,279 Speaker 1: about women in construction actually on the site building the buildings, 6 00:00:25,360 --> 00:00:29,240 Speaker 1: and we trotted out lots of dismal statistics. So today 7 00:00:29,360 --> 00:00:32,320 Speaker 1: we're going to talk about women designing the buildings, women 8 00:00:32,400 --> 00:00:38,120 Speaker 1: in architecture, and things get a little better. Yeah, I 9 00:00:38,159 --> 00:00:41,640 Speaker 1: mean things, things are not as bad in in architecture, 10 00:00:41,720 --> 00:00:44,600 Speaker 1: although they're still certainly not glowing. What I found interesting 11 00:00:44,880 --> 00:00:49,479 Speaker 1: in researching this episode was how hyper aware people in 12 00:00:49,560 --> 00:00:53,720 Speaker 1: the industry are of the issues that women face and 13 00:00:53,960 --> 00:00:59,280 Speaker 1: the issue of not having enough women in the field. Um, 14 00:00:59,360 --> 00:01:02,800 Speaker 1: that doesn't mean that people are necessarily doing anything about it, 15 00:01:02,920 --> 00:01:06,039 Speaker 1: but I appreciate that people are hyper aware and are 16 00:01:06,120 --> 00:01:09,880 Speaker 1: drawing attention to it. As opposed to construction, we're basically 17 00:01:09,920 --> 00:01:12,880 Speaker 1: women are the only ones talking about women. Yeah. Well, 18 00:01:12,920 --> 00:01:16,319 Speaker 1: and when it comes to architecture too, there's also seems 19 00:01:16,319 --> 00:01:20,640 Speaker 1: like there's been this constant focus just in general, of 20 00:01:21,400 --> 00:01:25,520 Speaker 1: gender when looking at a building and at public spaces 21 00:01:26,200 --> 00:01:31,840 Speaker 1: because a lot of times, these giant monuments and skyscrapers 22 00:01:31,959 --> 00:01:40,360 Speaker 1: are considered very masculine, phallic, masculine, phallic, very phallic. Yes, 23 00:01:40,760 --> 00:01:44,200 Speaker 1: the Washington Monument is like a giant penis in the 24 00:01:44,200 --> 00:01:48,320 Speaker 1: middle of Washington, d C. It's true. So if we 25 00:01:48,360 --> 00:01:51,760 Speaker 1: go though to the very beginning of the history women 26 00:01:51,760 --> 00:01:55,600 Speaker 1: in architecture, focusing in on the United States, they had 27 00:01:55,680 --> 00:02:01,320 Speaker 1: to fight this idea that women couldn't supervise construction. And 28 00:02:01,360 --> 00:02:03,680 Speaker 1: we're addressed at the same time, which does kind of 29 00:02:03,680 --> 00:02:07,520 Speaker 1: hearken to our construction episode two. It's it's like, Wow, 30 00:02:07,720 --> 00:02:10,280 Speaker 1: this is no place for a woman and her dresses 31 00:02:10,360 --> 00:02:15,400 Speaker 1: and shoes transgressing all over the place. Basically, you know, 32 00:02:15,560 --> 00:02:18,120 Speaker 1: if you're you're if you're a woman, you're too feminine 33 00:02:18,200 --> 00:02:20,720 Speaker 1: to be an architect, But if you're an architect, you're 34 00:02:20,720 --> 00:02:23,799 Speaker 1: too masculine to be a woman. That's there's all sorts 35 00:02:23,800 --> 00:02:27,680 Speaker 1: of weird dynamics going on about expectations and norms, but 36 00:02:27,800 --> 00:02:31,120 Speaker 1: we do have lots of rad ladies to talk about. 37 00:02:31,440 --> 00:02:34,960 Speaker 1: We do, starting back in eighteen seventy three with Mary L. Page, 38 00:02:35,120 --> 00:02:38,960 Speaker 1: she was the first woman to earn an actual architecture degree. 39 00:02:39,080 --> 00:02:41,120 Speaker 1: Way to go, Mary, Yeah, that was at the University 40 00:02:41,120 --> 00:02:44,280 Speaker 1: of Illinois Urbana Champagne, so a way to go University 41 00:02:44,280 --> 00:02:47,080 Speaker 1: of Illinois. But the real first woman not to just 42 00:02:47,160 --> 00:02:50,520 Speaker 1: get her architecture degree but actually build buildings in the 43 00:02:50,600 --> 00:02:55,840 Speaker 1: United States is Louise Bethoon, who was born in eighteen 44 00:02:55,840 --> 00:02:59,720 Speaker 1: fifty six in Waterloo, New York. And as the story goes, 45 00:03:00,240 --> 00:03:04,920 Speaker 1: a family friend once sarcastically joked to Louise, you know 46 00:03:05,000 --> 00:03:07,760 Speaker 1: you should do Louise, you should be an architecture or something. 47 00:03:08,560 --> 00:03:11,359 Speaker 1: And Louise was like, huh, I actually like the sound 48 00:03:11,400 --> 00:03:13,560 Speaker 1: of that. I think I'll I think I'll do just 49 00:03:13,720 --> 00:03:17,639 Speaker 1: that and do what she did? Did? I love that story. 50 00:03:18,200 --> 00:03:20,480 Speaker 1: Just twenty years old, she became a draftsman at the 51 00:03:20,520 --> 00:03:23,680 Speaker 1: Buffalo office of Richard A. Waite and F. W. Cockins. 52 00:03:24,000 --> 00:03:26,240 Speaker 1: And at the time you might think, like Buffalo, what's 53 00:03:26,280 --> 00:03:29,320 Speaker 1: up with Buffalo? Well, it turns out Buffalo was an 54 00:03:29,400 --> 00:03:31,720 Speaker 1: architectural hotbed at the turn of the century, and it 55 00:03:31,800 --> 00:03:36,480 Speaker 1: attracted big names like Henry Hobson, Richardson, Louis Sullivan, Daniel Burnham, 56 00:03:36,520 --> 00:03:40,280 Speaker 1: and Frederick law Own instead he of the Garden Fame, 57 00:03:40,480 --> 00:03:45,480 Speaker 1: Oh yes, well in one but when founded her own 58 00:03:45,600 --> 00:03:50,200 Speaker 1: architectural firm with her would be husband. And also that's 59 00:03:50,240 --> 00:03:52,680 Speaker 1: another theme. We'll see a lot lots of husband wife 60 00:03:52,720 --> 00:03:57,680 Speaker 1: teams in architecture. And so she becomes, by virtue of that, 61 00:03:57,840 --> 00:04:01,160 Speaker 1: the first woman to start her own architecture for and 62 00:04:01,480 --> 00:04:05,160 Speaker 1: here's a great thing about Louise, she had no time 63 00:04:05,440 --> 00:04:09,680 Speaker 1: for the gender wage gap. In she refused to put 64 00:04:09,680 --> 00:04:11,640 Speaker 1: in a bid to design the women's building for the 65 00:04:11,720 --> 00:04:18,040 Speaker 1: Chicago's World Columbia Exposition because female architects would only make 66 00:04:18,160 --> 00:04:20,360 Speaker 1: a thousand dollars. They had a thousand dollars to give, 67 00:04:20,440 --> 00:04:24,640 Speaker 1: and that was it compared to the minimum ten thousand 68 00:04:24,720 --> 00:04:27,880 Speaker 1: dollars that male architects were going to be paid in 69 00:04:27,920 --> 00:04:30,640 Speaker 1: addition to other fees that they would also collect just 70 00:04:30,760 --> 00:04:35,960 Speaker 1: for their designs for the World Columbia Exposition. So she 71 00:04:36,040 --> 00:04:37,880 Speaker 1: was like, you know what, No, I'm not gonna Why 72 00:04:37,920 --> 00:04:40,080 Speaker 1: would I do that. I'm worth more than that. It 73 00:04:40,160 --> 00:04:44,400 Speaker 1: cost a lot to maintain a penis um. But the 74 00:04:44,400 --> 00:04:48,080 Speaker 1: the designer of that building was Sophia Hayden Bennett. She 75 00:04:48,120 --> 00:04:50,200 Speaker 1: was the first woman to receive an architecture degree from 76 00:04:50,279 --> 00:04:53,600 Speaker 1: m I T in eighteen ninety, but she ended up 77 00:04:53,600 --> 00:04:57,520 Speaker 1: getting really sort of pushed around by jerkish male architects, 78 00:04:58,000 --> 00:05:00,719 Speaker 1: came down with so called brain her, was sent to 79 00:05:00,800 --> 00:05:05,200 Speaker 1: a sanitarium and never designed another building. And in fact, 80 00:05:05,720 --> 00:05:08,640 Speaker 1: the men around her sited her reaction to all of 81 00:05:08,680 --> 00:05:12,040 Speaker 1: this as evidence that women weren't cut out for this work. Yeah, 82 00:05:12,160 --> 00:05:16,039 Speaker 1: Sofia Hayden Bennett is is a sad story to pick 83 00:05:16,160 --> 00:05:19,680 Speaker 1: things off. Yeah, sorry, a cautionary tale of of going 84 00:05:19,760 --> 00:05:23,960 Speaker 1: for that lower that lower women's wage. Um. But going 85 00:05:24,000 --> 00:05:27,080 Speaker 1: back though, to Louise Bathoon. She was also a founding 86 00:05:27,160 --> 00:05:30,880 Speaker 1: member of the Women's Wheel and Athletic Club because yes, 87 00:05:31,320 --> 00:05:36,000 Speaker 1: she also thought that bicycles were awesome for female emancipation. 88 00:05:36,360 --> 00:05:40,000 Speaker 1: Well yeah, but she also rode in groups with fellow 89 00:05:40,080 --> 00:05:42,719 Speaker 1: lady cyclists, sort of critical mass style, in order to 90 00:05:42,800 --> 00:05:45,960 Speaker 1: provide protection, you know, safety in numbers. They're not going 91 00:05:46,000 --> 00:05:48,480 Speaker 1: to harass us as badly if there's a whole bunch 92 00:05:48,520 --> 00:05:51,599 Speaker 1: of cycling ladies together. So, in other words, Louise Bathuon 93 00:05:51,920 --> 00:05:55,800 Speaker 1: was one progressive galpel Yeah, we like her, we like 94 00:05:55,880 --> 00:05:59,680 Speaker 1: her a lot. Uh five. With the lobbying assistance of 95 00:05:59,760 --> 00:06:03,000 Speaker 1: Dan Neal Burnham and Lewis Sullivan, be Thun became the 96 00:06:03,080 --> 00:06:07,200 Speaker 1: first woman admitted to the Western Association of Architects, and 97 00:06:07,240 --> 00:06:11,160 Speaker 1: this makes her a recognized professional architect, and a few 98 00:06:11,200 --> 00:06:14,280 Speaker 1: years later she becomes the first woman admitted to become 99 00:06:14,279 --> 00:06:17,839 Speaker 1: a fellow of the American Institute of Architects. Now, her 100 00:06:17,920 --> 00:06:24,160 Speaker 1: architecture wasn't particularly innovative. It often focused on utilitarian, simple structures. 101 00:06:24,160 --> 00:06:28,160 Speaker 1: She built schools, public buildings, things like that. But still 102 00:06:28,200 --> 00:06:31,720 Speaker 1: standing in Buffalo is Hotel Lafayette. That is considered her 103 00:06:31,800 --> 00:06:34,840 Speaker 1: greatest work, and it is a lovely structure. But I mean, 104 00:06:34,880 --> 00:06:39,480 Speaker 1: she wasn't she wasn't wowing people with these crazy new designs. 105 00:06:39,560 --> 00:06:41,719 Speaker 1: But still she was the first woman and she was 106 00:06:41,760 --> 00:06:45,480 Speaker 1: actually building buildings, which is pretty cool. But the second 107 00:06:45,560 --> 00:06:47,800 Speaker 1: name we got to talk about is really the first 108 00:06:48,040 --> 00:06:52,720 Speaker 1: big name for women in architecture, and Julie Morgan is 109 00:06:53,000 --> 00:06:57,960 Speaker 1: a pretty incredible figure. Yeah, Julie Morgan grew up being 110 00:06:58,080 --> 00:07:00,520 Speaker 1: really good at math and it helped. She had a 111 00:07:00,560 --> 00:07:03,160 Speaker 1: mother who encouraged her instead of telling her to get 112 00:07:03,200 --> 00:07:05,920 Speaker 1: back in the kitchen. She ended up going to engineering 113 00:07:05,960 --> 00:07:08,400 Speaker 1: school at Berkeley in eight ninety and with the help 114 00:07:08,520 --> 00:07:11,480 Speaker 1: of a mentoring technical drawing professor and a couple of 115 00:07:11,480 --> 00:07:16,680 Speaker 1: influential friends, she decided to pursue architecture after graduation, and 116 00:07:17,120 --> 00:07:19,320 Speaker 1: she went straight for the best. She went to Paris 117 00:07:19,720 --> 00:07:23,520 Speaker 1: et de Boza in eighteen nine six, where she ended 118 00:07:23,640 --> 00:07:30,760 Speaker 1: up taking three entrance exams. Why three? Okay? So she 119 00:07:31,280 --> 00:07:34,800 Speaker 1: failed the first two times, which might have been influenced, 120 00:07:34,800 --> 00:07:37,640 Speaker 1: she later found out by professors who were not really 121 00:07:37,680 --> 00:07:41,560 Speaker 1: interested in letting the first mademoiselle into their hallowed halls. 122 00:07:42,240 --> 00:07:45,760 Speaker 1: And she didn't let that deter her though. She went 123 00:07:45,800 --> 00:07:49,320 Speaker 1: for the third try, and in a letter home, she wrote, 124 00:07:49,360 --> 00:07:52,960 Speaker 1: I'll try again next time anyway, even without any expectations, 125 00:07:53,360 --> 00:07:58,000 Speaker 1: just to show the June field are not discouraged. Pardon 126 00:07:58,040 --> 00:08:00,960 Speaker 1: my poor French. I think that meant she like, girls 127 00:08:01,040 --> 00:08:04,720 Speaker 1: are not to be messed with. That's exactly what she meant, 128 00:08:05,120 --> 00:08:07,440 Speaker 1: and her efforts paid off. She was the first woman 129 00:08:07,440 --> 00:08:10,440 Speaker 1: to graduate from the Paris School and was the first 130 00:08:10,480 --> 00:08:13,720 Speaker 1: woman to be licensed as an architect in California. And 131 00:08:13,760 --> 00:08:17,000 Speaker 1: the thing is, Caroline, I really like the fact that, hey, 132 00:08:17,160 --> 00:08:20,960 Speaker 1: it took three times to get into this, and there 133 00:08:21,040 --> 00:08:26,160 Speaker 1: was also a ticking clock because they cut off admission 134 00:08:26,240 --> 00:08:29,920 Speaker 1: at thirty years old and she was twenty nine. Had to, 135 00:08:30,120 --> 00:08:32,640 Speaker 1: you know, pass this exam also had to get all 136 00:08:32,720 --> 00:08:36,079 Speaker 1: these points by working on certain buildings, and she did 137 00:08:36,120 --> 00:08:37,640 Speaker 1: all of it by the time she was thirty. But 138 00:08:37,679 --> 00:08:39,600 Speaker 1: it's I don't know, I feel like it's a nice 139 00:08:39,679 --> 00:08:42,760 Speaker 1: lesson of Hey, you know what, when even when you're trailblazing, 140 00:08:43,040 --> 00:08:45,320 Speaker 1: you don't always make it the first time, and that's okay, Yeah, 141 00:08:45,400 --> 00:08:49,439 Speaker 1: try to try again. And she eventually opened her own firm. 142 00:08:49,440 --> 00:08:52,760 Speaker 1: Her first boss was rumored to relish in her cheap 143 00:08:52,840 --> 00:08:55,320 Speaker 1: labor as a woman, so it's good that she went 144 00:08:55,360 --> 00:08:58,959 Speaker 1: her own way. But at that firm, she provided mentorship 145 00:08:58,960 --> 00:09:01,800 Speaker 1: and training for both in and women, and every member 146 00:09:01,800 --> 00:09:03,880 Speaker 1: of the firm was able to participate in a profit 147 00:09:03,920 --> 00:09:08,600 Speaker 1: sharing plan. And what's so great about her focus on mentorship, 148 00:09:08,640 --> 00:09:10,960 Speaker 1: which you know Kristen and I hammer home in our episodes. 149 00:09:11,000 --> 00:09:15,360 Speaker 1: A lot her apprentices when they left her from under 150 00:09:15,360 --> 00:09:18,000 Speaker 1: her wing, were known for their thorough training, so it 151 00:09:18,040 --> 00:09:20,080 Speaker 1: was known that she was not only a smart cookie, 152 00:09:20,120 --> 00:09:22,560 Speaker 1: but that she was able to really provide an excellent 153 00:09:22,640 --> 00:09:26,760 Speaker 1: training ground for her apprentices. And after she went independent 154 00:09:27,160 --> 00:09:32,560 Speaker 1: between n and nineteen thirty nine, she worked tirelessly on 155 00:09:32,720 --> 00:09:38,240 Speaker 1: what is her most famous building, which is the Hearst Castle, 156 00:09:38,480 --> 00:09:43,280 Speaker 1: built for William Randolph Hearst, and it's this massive complex 157 00:09:43,320 --> 00:09:47,439 Speaker 1: in California, and she was often working eighteen hour days quote, 158 00:09:47,480 --> 00:09:52,439 Speaker 1: subsisting on coffee and chocolate bars. Sounds like an ulcer. Yeah. Um, 159 00:09:52,920 --> 00:09:56,480 Speaker 1: And I mean this Google image seriously, the Hearst Castle, 160 00:09:56,559 --> 00:09:59,160 Speaker 1: because I cannot explain to you. I mean, I probably 161 00:09:59,200 --> 00:10:01,080 Speaker 1: could explain to you were footage wise, but I don't 162 00:10:01,080 --> 00:10:03,400 Speaker 1: have the stats in front of me. But it is massive. 163 00:10:03,920 --> 00:10:07,800 Speaker 1: It is so huge. Can I talk to any more 164 00:10:07,800 --> 00:10:09,760 Speaker 1: about how big? It is? Clear I should get a 165 00:10:09,840 --> 00:10:15,319 Speaker 1: job at the Architectural Review. Well, so you might think, okay, 166 00:10:15,320 --> 00:10:18,559 Speaker 1: well that's a really long time nine working on the 167 00:10:18,600 --> 00:10:21,199 Speaker 1: Hers Castle, working eighteen nowadays, surely she didn't have time 168 00:10:21,200 --> 00:10:24,560 Speaker 1: to do anything else. That was her one contribution. Nay, No, 169 00:10:24,760 --> 00:10:30,000 Speaker 1: she designed more than seven hundred structures. Part of this, 170 00:10:30,200 --> 00:10:32,720 Speaker 1: and part of the lives of many women in the 171 00:10:32,840 --> 00:10:37,120 Speaker 1: architectural field, is that she never had any kids. She 172 00:10:37,160 --> 00:10:39,600 Speaker 1: didn't have a family life that she was taking up 173 00:10:39,600 --> 00:10:43,520 Speaker 1: part of her time. Her entire life was dedicated to architecture, 174 00:10:43,920 --> 00:10:46,120 Speaker 1: and she really didn't mind. She said that her buildings 175 00:10:46,160 --> 00:10:48,840 Speaker 1: would be her legacy. And I mean, and what a 176 00:10:48,920 --> 00:10:52,880 Speaker 1: legacy to leave behind seven hundred plus structures and and 177 00:10:52,960 --> 00:10:56,040 Speaker 1: too while she was working on that hers castle, she 178 00:10:56,040 --> 00:10:58,959 Speaker 1: would have to take all of these train rides followed 179 00:10:58,960 --> 00:11:02,760 Speaker 1: by car rides out to this, uh, this massive expanse 180 00:11:02,880 --> 00:11:06,000 Speaker 1: while she would still be working on other projects. She 181 00:11:06,080 --> 00:11:08,880 Speaker 1: was the queen of multitasking. It seems like. Yeah, there 182 00:11:08,920 --> 00:11:11,439 Speaker 1: was one male architect colleague of hers who said he 183 00:11:11,480 --> 00:11:13,120 Speaker 1: went down there to the hurt, the site of the 184 00:11:13,160 --> 00:11:16,839 Speaker 1: Hearst Castle building, just to check it out, and they 185 00:11:16,880 --> 00:11:19,000 Speaker 1: worked all day. She was like, yeah, I watched her 186 00:11:19,000 --> 00:11:21,000 Speaker 1: work all day. We got back on the train and 187 00:11:21,040 --> 00:11:23,199 Speaker 1: I skipped work the next day because I was exhausted. 188 00:11:23,280 --> 00:11:26,920 Speaker 1: She went right back into work. Julie Morgan never slept well. 189 00:11:27,000 --> 00:11:30,840 Speaker 1: Then she was finally awarded the American Institute of Architects 190 00:11:31,000 --> 00:11:36,240 Speaker 1: Gold Medal in two thousand fourteen, a little bit after 191 00:11:36,240 --> 00:11:38,800 Speaker 1: her time. Yeah, to which some of the people said, oh, 192 00:11:38,840 --> 00:11:42,920 Speaker 1: that's great. Yeah, Julie Morgan absolutely deserves his honor. But 193 00:11:43,000 --> 00:11:46,840 Speaker 1: it's two thousand fourteen polling on. But this also is 194 00:11:46,840 --> 00:11:51,679 Speaker 1: indicative of how the architecture industry is playing catch up 195 00:11:52,280 --> 00:11:57,000 Speaker 1: in terms of recognizing women's contributions. But it's we've also 196 00:11:57,000 --> 00:11:58,840 Speaker 1: got to look at the context for sure of the 197 00:11:58,880 --> 00:12:01,880 Speaker 1: era in which more in and between we're working by 198 00:12:02,760 --> 00:12:07,880 Speaker 1: there were only forty practicing female architects in the United States, 199 00:12:08,040 --> 00:12:11,199 Speaker 1: and our first licensed architect was a woman by the 200 00:12:11,280 --> 00:12:16,880 Speaker 1: name of Marian Mahoney Griffin. Yeah, in, Alice Hands and 201 00:12:16,960 --> 00:12:20,720 Speaker 1: Mary Gannon formed the first female architectural partnership. This is 202 00:12:20,760 --> 00:12:22,200 Speaker 1: just kind of a side note, but I thought it 203 00:12:22,240 --> 00:12:25,760 Speaker 1: was really interesting that they, you know, had this first. 204 00:12:25,760 --> 00:12:30,720 Speaker 1: But also they were really focused on social justice and 205 00:12:30,800 --> 00:12:34,880 Speaker 1: building affordable housing, particularly for working women at the time. 206 00:12:35,000 --> 00:12:38,520 Speaker 1: So interesting to see what kinds of buildings women want 207 00:12:38,559 --> 00:12:40,560 Speaker 1: to focus on, even back then at the turn of 208 00:12:40,559 --> 00:12:44,679 Speaker 1: the century. And that same year, Marion Mahoney Griffin becomes 209 00:12:44,679 --> 00:12:47,640 Speaker 1: the second woman to graduate in architecture from M I 210 00:12:47,640 --> 00:12:52,199 Speaker 1: t remember that the first female graduate was Sophia Hayden Bennett, 211 00:12:52,200 --> 00:12:55,840 Speaker 1: the one who came down with brain fever. But Mahony 212 00:12:55,880 --> 00:13:00,840 Speaker 1: Griffin was hired my gentleman named Frank Floyd Right, It 213 00:13:00,880 --> 00:13:04,600 Speaker 1: was actually his first hire, and her renderings of his 214 00:13:04,720 --> 00:13:08,920 Speaker 1: designs a helped hone the Prairie School style and be 215 00:13:09,200 --> 00:13:13,200 Speaker 1: popularized rights work. In other words, Marian Mahoney Griffin was 216 00:13:13,360 --> 00:13:17,040 Speaker 1: instrumental to the fact that we all know and recognized 217 00:13:17,240 --> 00:13:20,520 Speaker 1: Frank Lloyd Right's work today. Yeah, and just three years 218 00:13:20,559 --> 00:13:23,360 Speaker 1: after Right hired her, Griffin became the first. That's when 219 00:13:23,360 --> 00:13:27,480 Speaker 1: she became the first licensed female architect in the US. 220 00:13:27,880 --> 00:13:31,600 Speaker 1: And to round out our lists of architectural trailbazers, we've 221 00:13:31,640 --> 00:13:35,360 Speaker 1: got to talk about Norma Merrick Scaleric, who graduated from 222 00:13:35,360 --> 00:13:39,160 Speaker 1: Columbia University and architecture, one of two women, by the way, 223 00:13:39,200 --> 00:13:42,360 Speaker 1: in her class. But she had a hard time finding 224 00:13:42,400 --> 00:13:47,000 Speaker 1: a job because she was black and female. Yeah, she 225 00:13:47,080 --> 00:13:49,800 Speaker 1: said that she didn't know when she didn't get the 226 00:13:49,880 --> 00:13:52,000 Speaker 1: job she failed a job interview if which one was 227 00:13:52,040 --> 00:13:55,280 Speaker 1: working against her more um. But despite all this, in 228 00:13:55,360 --> 00:13:58,320 Speaker 1: nineteen fifty four, she became the first black woman to 229 00:13:58,360 --> 00:14:02,160 Speaker 1: earn an architect's license. In nineteen fifty nine, she became 230 00:14:02,200 --> 00:14:05,480 Speaker 1: the first black woman member of the American Institute of Architects, 231 00:14:05,520 --> 00:14:08,680 Speaker 1: and in nineteen eighty became the first black woman elected 232 00:14:08,720 --> 00:14:13,000 Speaker 1: as a Fellow of the ai A. So, while Scleric 233 00:14:13,080 --> 00:14:15,720 Speaker 1: was working at a firm in Los Angeles, so she 234 00:14:15,840 --> 00:14:19,080 Speaker 1: didn't design many of the projects she supervised, even though 235 00:14:19,120 --> 00:14:23,000 Speaker 1: she was perfectly capable to do so simply because at 236 00:14:23,080 --> 00:14:26,760 Speaker 1: that time clients apparently would have balked at seeing a 237 00:14:26,840 --> 00:14:30,520 Speaker 1: black woman designing their projects. So I mean, she's an 238 00:14:30,520 --> 00:14:37,640 Speaker 1: example of just continually having to fight essentially racism throughout 239 00:14:37,680 --> 00:14:41,800 Speaker 1: her career. Although in nineteen eighty five she becomes a 240 00:14:41,840 --> 00:14:45,120 Speaker 1: founding partner of Seagulls, s Cleric and Diamond, one of 241 00:14:45,160 --> 00:14:48,840 Speaker 1: the largest all women architectural firms in the United States, 242 00:14:49,200 --> 00:14:51,920 Speaker 1: but it lasted only she lasted only four years there 243 00:14:51,960 --> 00:14:55,800 Speaker 1: because it really didn't attract big scale projects that she 244 00:14:56,040 --> 00:15:00,760 Speaker 1: liked to take on. Yeah, and then in she retired, 245 00:15:01,440 --> 00:15:05,120 Speaker 1: and she's really remembered for mainly for the terminal one 246 00:15:05,320 --> 00:15:07,640 Speaker 1: at the Los Angeles Airport at l A X and 247 00:15:07,720 --> 00:15:11,040 Speaker 1: the American Embassy in Tokyo. And we figured too, we 248 00:15:11,040 --> 00:15:15,640 Speaker 1: should highlight a few more influential female architects of the 249 00:15:15,680 --> 00:15:19,880 Speaker 1: twentieth century that are important to know, because for me, 250 00:15:19,960 --> 00:15:22,440 Speaker 1: at least, it was really instructive just to see the 251 00:15:22,720 --> 00:15:27,640 Speaker 1: range of architectural styles and the kinds of movements that 252 00:15:28,040 --> 00:15:32,080 Speaker 1: women were influencing at the time. So Mary Jane Coulter, 253 00:15:32,600 --> 00:15:36,920 Speaker 1: for instance, developed the National Park Service Rustic Style a 254 00:15:37,040 --> 00:15:40,480 Speaker 1: k A architecture. She designed a series of buildings at 255 00:15:40,480 --> 00:15:44,239 Speaker 1: the Grand Canyon, for instance, and throughout the American Southwest. 256 00:15:44,280 --> 00:15:48,480 Speaker 1: And her work was really flourishing um around from around 257 00:15:48,520 --> 00:15:52,600 Speaker 1: nineteen o five through the nineteen thirties. So that's something 258 00:15:52,640 --> 00:15:55,080 Speaker 1: I mean, it's a very particular style that a lot 259 00:15:55,120 --> 00:15:58,960 Speaker 1: of us would recognize if we've been to a national park. Yeah. 260 00:15:59,000 --> 00:16:02,600 Speaker 1: And then Ellen or Raymond in worked with m I 261 00:16:02,640 --> 00:16:07,040 Speaker 1: T scientists and solar power researcher Maria Telkis to construct 262 00:16:07,040 --> 00:16:09,840 Speaker 1: the Dover Houses in Dover, Massachusetts, and these were the 263 00:16:09,880 --> 00:16:13,840 Speaker 1: first occupied solar heated homes in the United States. Look 264 00:16:13,840 --> 00:16:16,520 Speaker 1: how far we've Oh no, wait, we haven't come very 265 00:16:16,520 --> 00:16:19,280 Speaker 1: far in terms of solar houses. We're trying, we are, 266 00:16:19,440 --> 00:16:22,160 Speaker 1: some of us are trying. We need to summon the 267 00:16:22,200 --> 00:16:26,800 Speaker 1: spirit of eleanor Raymond back. Perhaps. There's also Hilda Reese 268 00:16:26,880 --> 00:16:30,560 Speaker 1: who's an architect, designer and curator who helped bring Bow 269 00:16:30,640 --> 00:16:34,560 Speaker 1: House esthetic state side, especially after that school was shut 270 00:16:34,600 --> 00:16:38,960 Speaker 1: down during World War Two. There's Eileen Gray and her 271 00:16:39,120 --> 00:16:44,920 Speaker 1: iconic house E ten seven, who is a pioneer of modernism. Yeah. 272 00:16:44,920 --> 00:16:47,560 Speaker 1: She built the house with input from her lover and 273 00:16:47,640 --> 00:16:51,880 Speaker 1: actually the letter the name of the house eight seven 274 00:16:52,160 --> 00:16:55,760 Speaker 1: represents letters in their names that after she and her 275 00:16:55,800 --> 00:16:58,840 Speaker 1: lever Jeans split up, this guy who's known as La 276 00:16:58,880 --> 00:17:01,840 Speaker 1: Corbusier came to stay at the house and he ended 277 00:17:01,880 --> 00:17:04,440 Speaker 1: up defiling it by painting murals all over the place, 278 00:17:04,440 --> 00:17:07,920 Speaker 1: and the house has since fallen into disrepair. Yeah, look, 279 00:17:07,960 --> 00:17:09,840 Speaker 1: corbuc A, what would you do such a thing. He's 280 00:17:09,880 --> 00:17:12,239 Speaker 1: a jerk who probably didn't like women being all up 281 00:17:12,240 --> 00:17:15,720 Speaker 1: in architecture. And then there's Leno Bobardi who was born 282 00:17:15,720 --> 00:17:19,160 Speaker 1: in Italy, but most of her work has been in Brazil. 283 00:17:19,320 --> 00:17:23,000 Speaker 1: She's a modernist architect who has been known for these 284 00:17:23,160 --> 00:17:26,879 Speaker 1: large public buildings that she's done, such as the S E. 285 00:17:27,080 --> 00:17:32,480 Speaker 1: S C. Pompeia Cultural Center, which kind of exemplifies how 286 00:17:32,560 --> 00:17:37,480 Speaker 1: she approaches has approached spaces, trying to take sort of 287 00:17:37,480 --> 00:17:41,040 Speaker 1: the human element into it as well. Um She once said, 288 00:17:41,080 --> 00:17:44,480 Speaker 1: quote the spirit of modern architecture is unwavering and shaped 289 00:17:44,760 --> 00:17:49,560 Speaker 1: by a love of humanity, which some people would probably 290 00:17:49,560 --> 00:17:53,800 Speaker 1: say hints at more of a feminine design aesthetic. Yeah, 291 00:17:53,880 --> 00:17:56,400 Speaker 1: I mean, when you you it's it's hard to read 292 00:17:56,440 --> 00:18:00,640 Speaker 1: anything about architecture, especially women in architecture, and not come 293 00:18:00,680 --> 00:18:03,960 Speaker 1: across the view whether it's held by the writer or 294 00:18:04,000 --> 00:18:07,200 Speaker 1: just reported on by the writer, that women do things 295 00:18:07,200 --> 00:18:09,560 Speaker 1: this way, men do things this way, and that women 296 00:18:09,640 --> 00:18:14,879 Speaker 1: are very social minded, they're very uh, we're carrying and 297 00:18:14,920 --> 00:18:18,360 Speaker 1: we're nurturing, and so we want to design curvy shapes 298 00:18:18,560 --> 00:18:21,080 Speaker 1: that are all focused on bringing people together, whereas men 299 00:18:21,080 --> 00:18:23,920 Speaker 1: are just designing you know, glass and steel penises, lots 300 00:18:23,920 --> 00:18:26,600 Speaker 1: of lots of phallic buildings. So in the first half 301 00:18:26,600 --> 00:18:30,440 Speaker 1: of the podcast, we trotted through some of the trailblazing 302 00:18:30,560 --> 00:18:35,000 Speaker 1: names of women in architecture who have been building buildings 303 00:18:35,040 --> 00:18:38,240 Speaker 1: for the past century or so. And now we're going 304 00:18:38,280 --> 00:18:40,840 Speaker 1: to get a little intellectual for a minute. We're gonna 305 00:18:40,840 --> 00:18:43,960 Speaker 1: move away from the actual structures and talk about more 306 00:18:44,040 --> 00:18:48,600 Speaker 1: I guess of brain structure, this question of whether men 307 00:18:48,680 --> 00:18:53,600 Speaker 1: and women design buildings differently, because the longstanding answer has 308 00:18:53,640 --> 00:18:59,440 Speaker 1: been yeah, I mean, of course, because there are biological 309 00:18:59,560 --> 00:19:05,440 Speaker 1: arguments against women's just basic capacity for architecture, beginning with 310 00:19:06,000 --> 00:19:10,119 Speaker 1: our mere physicality. Yeah. Just like when women first started 311 00:19:10,240 --> 00:19:13,160 Speaker 1: entering the field, people were like, oh, you're too feminine, Nah, 312 00:19:13,320 --> 00:19:15,920 Speaker 1: how are you going to do anything as masculine as 313 00:19:16,000 --> 00:19:20,760 Speaker 1: I have an idea um, people are still questioning women's 314 00:19:20,760 --> 00:19:22,800 Speaker 1: physical strength, and so at the turn of the century, 315 00:19:23,560 --> 00:19:27,040 Speaker 1: people were arguing that architects need a strong athletic body, 316 00:19:27,119 --> 00:19:30,200 Speaker 1: and that was considered impossible for a woman to possess 317 00:19:30,480 --> 00:19:34,359 Speaker 1: without transgendering herself in the process. Yeah, this is coming 318 00:19:34,400 --> 00:19:39,000 Speaker 1: from paper architects in skirts, the public image of women 319 00:19:39,160 --> 00:19:44,360 Speaker 1: architects in Wilheim, Germany, and there was lots of concern 320 00:19:44,440 --> 00:19:48,320 Speaker 1: at this time over women in particular having vertigo, likely 321 00:19:48,359 --> 00:19:53,359 Speaker 1: in conjunction with ideas about hysteria. Um so, for instance, 322 00:19:53,840 --> 00:19:58,760 Speaker 1: on building sites there was just this presumed female propensity 323 00:19:59,240 --> 00:20:02,320 Speaker 1: for disease else So it's like women should have nothing 324 00:20:02,320 --> 00:20:04,320 Speaker 1: to do with us because first of all, our uterus 325 00:20:04,400 --> 00:20:06,879 Speaker 1: is gonna be going a little a little out of 326 00:20:06,880 --> 00:20:10,560 Speaker 1: whack that promotes vertigo. So if we're building a building, 327 00:20:10,640 --> 00:20:13,840 Speaker 1: we will fall to our death at some point. Well 328 00:20:13,840 --> 00:20:16,040 Speaker 1: this well, yeah, I mean, and the whole concern over 329 00:20:16,160 --> 00:20:19,200 Speaker 1: strength and ability and whatever. I mean, it's the same 330 00:20:19,240 --> 00:20:21,800 Speaker 1: stuff that we talked about in our construction episode, where 331 00:20:21,800 --> 00:20:24,520 Speaker 1: people are so concerned about women being too small and 332 00:20:24,560 --> 00:20:27,760 Speaker 1: weak to lift things, when in reality the stuff that 333 00:20:27,800 --> 00:20:30,439 Speaker 1: you do on the job site is so rarely about 334 00:20:30,480 --> 00:20:33,399 Speaker 1: brute strength and more about just being smart and safe 335 00:20:33,440 --> 00:20:37,280 Speaker 1: and quick witted honestly. Yeah. Well, there's also some interesting 336 00:20:37,359 --> 00:20:39,760 Speaker 1: class panic too that ties in. And it also is 337 00:20:39,800 --> 00:20:43,159 Speaker 1: an interesting parallel with our conversation about women in construction, 338 00:20:43,240 --> 00:20:47,320 Speaker 1: because when it comes to architecture and design, this was 339 00:20:47,440 --> 00:20:52,119 Speaker 1: considered an appropriate field for a middle or upper class 340 00:20:52,119 --> 00:20:55,000 Speaker 1: woman to pursue because it requires more education. They might 341 00:20:55,040 --> 00:20:57,800 Speaker 1: have the funding to be able to go to college, 342 00:20:58,280 --> 00:21:00,280 Speaker 1: but at the same time they were still caught in 343 00:21:00,359 --> 00:21:05,520 Speaker 1: this gendered catch twenty two because these wealthier women who 344 00:21:05,520 --> 00:21:07,960 Speaker 1: would have had the most access to college were considered 345 00:21:08,200 --> 00:21:11,960 Speaker 1: too soft and frail for architecture because their money and 346 00:21:12,040 --> 00:21:17,000 Speaker 1: lifestyle and luxury made them soft as opposed to the sturdy, 347 00:21:17,040 --> 00:21:20,000 Speaker 1: working class woman who might have had the braun but 348 00:21:20,119 --> 00:21:25,600 Speaker 1: not the financial access to architecture. So we're so screwed. Yeah, 349 00:21:25,640 --> 00:21:28,200 Speaker 1: I mean, basically, if a woman had a feminine body, 350 00:21:29,000 --> 00:21:32,960 Speaker 1: she was inherently considered unfit to be an architect. But 351 00:21:33,040 --> 00:21:35,959 Speaker 1: if a woman was an architect, then she inherently couldn't 352 00:21:36,000 --> 00:21:38,719 Speaker 1: be feminine at the same time. Yeah, Plus, we were 353 00:21:38,760 --> 00:21:41,439 Speaker 1: wearing all sorts of crazy clothes that were totally a 354 00:21:41,480 --> 00:21:45,080 Speaker 1: liability on construction sites, and so you have somebody like 355 00:21:45,119 --> 00:21:47,399 Speaker 1: Margaret pick who at the turn of the century recommended 356 00:21:47,520 --> 00:21:51,400 Speaker 1: loose reform trousers, which just sounds to me like stretchy pants, 357 00:21:51,440 --> 00:21:53,399 Speaker 1: although my stretchy pants would not be safe on a 358 00:21:53,400 --> 00:21:57,159 Speaker 1: construction site anyway. She also recommends high boots and a 359 00:21:57,240 --> 00:21:59,959 Speaker 1: stock almost to the ankles, as painters and stone may 360 00:22:00,040 --> 00:22:02,679 Speaker 1: since where so it's like, okay, if you have a 361 00:22:02,680 --> 00:22:05,960 Speaker 1: bifurcated garment, just cover that stuff up, yes again, and 362 00:22:06,240 --> 00:22:08,680 Speaker 1: get the smock. I mean, I mean, I will say 363 00:22:08,680 --> 00:22:10,720 Speaker 1: that that does sound a lot like what I wear 364 00:22:10,720 --> 00:22:16,280 Speaker 1: in the winter boots, trousers and a drapey shirt. Um. 365 00:22:16,400 --> 00:22:19,840 Speaker 1: We also found a source gender studies and architecture space 366 00:22:19,920 --> 00:22:24,840 Speaker 1: Power and Difference by Dorta Coleman, that really gets into 367 00:22:25,680 --> 00:22:31,359 Speaker 1: the sort of the historical outline of how women supposedly 368 00:22:31,400 --> 00:22:38,080 Speaker 1: see spaces differently from gentlemen. So, for instance, Coleman sites 369 00:22:38,400 --> 00:22:41,560 Speaker 1: Henry Atherton Frost, who in nineteen fifteen founded the first 370 00:22:41,720 --> 00:22:46,359 Speaker 1: architectural school intended exclusively for women, the Cambridge School of 371 00:22:46,440 --> 00:22:51,119 Speaker 1: Architecture and Landscape Architecture. So that's a great thing, but 372 00:22:51,240 --> 00:22:54,119 Speaker 1: at the same time Frost definitely thought that there was 373 00:22:54,160 --> 00:22:57,960 Speaker 1: a sex difference in design, noting how women are drawn 374 00:22:58,000 --> 00:23:01,800 Speaker 1: to housing developments instead of individ dual homes because we're 375 00:23:01,840 --> 00:23:05,719 Speaker 1: all about community and socialization, right, Yes, so, not so 376 00:23:05,800 --> 00:23:09,520 Speaker 1: much aesthetics, more about the social function of things like 377 00:23:09,560 --> 00:23:13,679 Speaker 1: community facilities that we really supposedly have an interest and 378 00:23:13,760 --> 00:23:17,359 Speaker 1: a focus on social and human interests. And not that 379 00:23:17,440 --> 00:23:21,560 Speaker 1: there's anything wrong with that, it's just that women have 380 00:23:21,720 --> 00:23:24,800 Speaker 1: historically been pigeonholed. Is just like, oh, they're just They're 381 00:23:24,840 --> 00:23:27,320 Speaker 1: only going to build like a school, whereas I'm going 382 00:23:27,359 --> 00:23:32,560 Speaker 1: to build like a powerful uh a space school school 383 00:23:32,600 --> 00:23:36,119 Speaker 1: and space. Beat that lady. It's it's so tall and 384 00:23:36,200 --> 00:23:38,080 Speaker 1: felt like that it is going to reach to space. 385 00:23:39,200 --> 00:23:40,880 Speaker 1: You can also at this point make a drinking game 386 00:23:40,920 --> 00:23:43,879 Speaker 1: for the number of times we say phallic in this podcast. 387 00:23:44,280 --> 00:23:47,639 Speaker 1: Um but that that sentiment, though, is still echoed in 388 00:23:48,000 --> 00:23:52,520 Speaker 1: Yes dated but A nine survey by Progressive Architecture found 389 00:23:52,520 --> 00:23:57,280 Speaker 1: that forty of both male and female architects believed there 390 00:23:57,320 --> 00:23:59,840 Speaker 1: was a difference between the designs of men and women, 391 00:24:00,000 --> 00:24:03,240 Speaker 1: and they said women are best at designing buildings again 392 00:24:03,320 --> 00:24:06,639 Speaker 1: for home, healthcare and school sounds very familiar, and men 393 00:24:06,680 --> 00:24:10,760 Speaker 1: are the best at building representative and commercial architecture, which 394 00:24:10,840 --> 00:24:14,320 Speaker 1: I mean that just sounds like our you know, separate 395 00:24:14,359 --> 00:24:17,879 Speaker 1: spheres period. Yeah, exactly. And you know a lot of 396 00:24:17,920 --> 00:24:22,920 Speaker 1: this comes down to arguments about our visual spatial skills. 397 00:24:22,920 --> 00:24:25,560 Speaker 1: This is stuff we talked about in our episode on Legos. 398 00:24:25,680 --> 00:24:28,000 Speaker 1: We talked about this in our interview with the Goldie 399 00:24:28,040 --> 00:24:30,680 Speaker 1: Blocks founder. So it's the idea that you know, boys 400 00:24:30,680 --> 00:24:33,000 Speaker 1: can go outside and roam and learn about how buildings 401 00:24:33,040 --> 00:24:37,000 Speaker 1: are built and develop those visual space visual spatial skills, 402 00:24:37,040 --> 00:24:39,840 Speaker 1: I got it, whereas girls are much better at things 403 00:24:39,920 --> 00:24:43,119 Speaker 1: like language skills. But the whole thing is that we 404 00:24:43,160 --> 00:24:48,119 Speaker 1: don't ever doubt that boys can eventually develop those language 405 00:24:48,200 --> 00:24:51,359 Speaker 1: and writing skills, but we somehow doubt that girls can 406 00:24:51,400 --> 00:24:54,040 Speaker 1: ever catch up with visual spatial skills that boys are 407 00:24:54,040 --> 00:24:57,800 Speaker 1: supposedly better at. Yeah, and this leads us to a 408 00:24:58,080 --> 00:25:03,480 Speaker 1: lot of analysis and scholarship in the seventies and eighties, 409 00:25:03,480 --> 00:25:07,880 Speaker 1: in particular on architecture and feminism. There actually is something 410 00:25:07,960 --> 00:25:13,000 Speaker 1: called feminist geography and feminist architecture, which is exploring how 411 00:25:13,440 --> 00:25:16,840 Speaker 1: he's sort of trying to separate what is a biological 412 00:25:16,880 --> 00:25:21,280 Speaker 1: sex difference from just our gender roles, kind of getting 413 00:25:21,320 --> 00:25:23,439 Speaker 1: in the way of what we think people can and 414 00:25:23,520 --> 00:25:27,680 Speaker 1: can't do. And I mean, it really does get interesting 415 00:25:27,680 --> 00:25:32,160 Speaker 1: when you think about public space, private space, the domestic sphere, 416 00:25:32,520 --> 00:25:37,000 Speaker 1: the public sphere, and what men and women build and 417 00:25:37,040 --> 00:25:40,040 Speaker 1: how they build it. Um. There's definitely a lot of 418 00:25:40,440 --> 00:25:44,959 Speaker 1: feminist ideology that can go into analyzing all of that, 419 00:25:45,000 --> 00:25:48,280 Speaker 1: and we we honestly don't even have time to get 420 00:25:48,320 --> 00:25:51,640 Speaker 1: into it. Um. But in the book Design and Feminism 421 00:25:51,680 --> 00:25:56,920 Speaker 1: Revisioning Spaces, Places and Things, it sites the article emphasizing 422 00:25:56,920 --> 00:26:01,520 Speaker 1: how female design principles are quote more user friendly than 423 00:26:01,640 --> 00:26:06,520 Speaker 1: than design oriented, more flexible than fixed, more organically ordered 424 00:26:06,520 --> 00:26:12,320 Speaker 1: than abstractly systematized, more holistic than specialized, more complex than 425 00:26:12,400 --> 00:26:16,560 Speaker 1: one dimensional. And again it asked the question of whether 426 00:26:16,600 --> 00:26:20,240 Speaker 1: this is a result of the dominance of male design principles, 427 00:26:20,240 --> 00:26:21,800 Speaker 1: because that's the thing that comes up a lot too. 428 00:26:21,800 --> 00:26:25,600 Speaker 1: It's like, well, I mean, is this just an issue 429 00:26:25,600 --> 00:26:31,000 Speaker 1: two of women being forced to conform their feminine design 430 00:26:31,040 --> 00:26:36,760 Speaker 1: aesthetics to an overwhelming male design paradigm. Yeah, I mean, 431 00:26:36,800 --> 00:26:39,639 Speaker 1: christ is right, there's so much, potentially so much that 432 00:26:39,680 --> 00:26:43,240 Speaker 1: we could talk about with just with these issues about feminism, 433 00:26:43,240 --> 00:26:45,720 Speaker 1: but also men and women seeing things differently. Whether that's 434 00:26:45,880 --> 00:26:50,000 Speaker 1: ingrained or nature versus nurture. It makes it has made 435 00:26:50,000 --> 00:26:53,359 Speaker 1: me look outside a little bit differently though, pay attention 436 00:26:53,440 --> 00:26:56,320 Speaker 1: to buildings a little bit more closely. Obviously I can't, 437 00:26:56,560 --> 00:26:59,320 Speaker 1: you know, immediately look out and identify, oh well that 438 00:26:59,400 --> 00:27:02,199 Speaker 1: I know the our chitectually build that. But when you 439 00:27:02,240 --> 00:27:06,160 Speaker 1: start looking to at for images of all of these 440 00:27:06,480 --> 00:27:09,040 Speaker 1: buildings and spaces of the women we have sided and 441 00:27:09,080 --> 00:27:11,520 Speaker 1: will cite what we're going to talk about more contemporary 442 00:27:11,520 --> 00:27:13,840 Speaker 1: female architects in just a minute, when you look at 443 00:27:13,840 --> 00:27:18,920 Speaker 1: the buildings they build from my untrained I I don't see, 444 00:27:18,920 --> 00:27:21,439 Speaker 1: oh well, of course that's a lady building and shaped 445 00:27:21,440 --> 00:27:24,520 Speaker 1: like a tampon. That's not phallic, that's the tampon, you know. 446 00:27:24,640 --> 00:27:29,879 Speaker 1: Like so it does get kind of the philosophical aspect 447 00:27:29,920 --> 00:27:34,320 Speaker 1: of it gets really interesting, and unfortunately we can't indulge 448 00:27:34,320 --> 00:27:36,840 Speaker 1: it too much in the podcast because it could be 449 00:27:36,840 --> 00:27:38,840 Speaker 1: a spiral. Because when you look at Julie Morgan, who 450 00:27:38,840 --> 00:27:41,160 Speaker 1: did the Hearst Castle on that giant compound, I mean 451 00:27:41,200 --> 00:27:43,840 Speaker 1: you could you could talk about how, okay, well she 452 00:27:43,920 --> 00:27:48,000 Speaker 1: designed something for a man, so she compromised her feminist 453 00:27:48,240 --> 00:27:51,800 Speaker 1: or her female or feminine vision or no she's such 454 00:27:51,800 --> 00:27:54,080 Speaker 1: a great architect that she can design for anyone. Or no, 455 00:27:54,200 --> 00:27:56,399 Speaker 1: maybe it was masculine because it was her vision. Like, 456 00:27:56,760 --> 00:27:59,760 Speaker 1: h you know, it's yes, we need to talk about 457 00:27:59,760 --> 00:28:03,600 Speaker 1: when then in architecture and where we've been, where we're going, 458 00:28:03,640 --> 00:28:06,040 Speaker 1: where we are now. But it's almost like you kind 459 00:28:06,040 --> 00:28:08,480 Speaker 1: of just want to shout, like, let people do their 460 00:28:08,520 --> 00:28:13,440 Speaker 1: own designs, build y'all buildings. Echoes of the fountain head 461 00:28:13,880 --> 00:28:17,720 Speaker 1: reverberating through UM. The industry though, let's talk about the 462 00:28:17,720 --> 00:28:22,199 Speaker 1: industry today because it could use some renovation, And like 463 00:28:22,280 --> 00:28:26,639 Speaker 1: you mentioned earlier, Caroline, there's a lot of awareness of 464 00:28:26,680 --> 00:28:30,639 Speaker 1: this issue of this gender gap in architecture, but a 465 00:28:30,680 --> 00:28:33,320 Speaker 1: lot of head scratching about well, how do we even 466 00:28:34,080 --> 00:28:39,400 Speaker 1: fix this? Doesn't even really need fixing because women earned 467 00:28:39,840 --> 00:28:44,640 Speaker 1: half of all us undergrad degrees in architecture but only 468 00:28:44,720 --> 00:28:49,120 Speaker 1: make up twenty of all licensed practitioners, so that's a 469 00:28:49,160 --> 00:28:51,680 Speaker 1: big drop off of what's going on there. Yeah, I 470 00:28:51,680 --> 00:28:53,560 Speaker 1: mean there's a lot of theories that's the same same 471 00:28:53,560 --> 00:28:55,560 Speaker 1: stuff that we've talked about in any of our STEM 472 00:28:55,600 --> 00:29:00,120 Speaker 1: episodes or that we talked about in our Construction episode. UM, 473 00:29:00,160 --> 00:29:06,560 Speaker 1: but a lot of those theories revolve around childcare, around money, 474 00:29:06,880 --> 00:29:10,920 Speaker 1: around sexual harassment and discrimination and things of that nature. 475 00:29:11,360 --> 00:29:14,000 Speaker 1: And there was this op ed by Maria Smith in 476 00:29:14,200 --> 00:29:19,240 Speaker 1: Architectural Review that points out that the question isn't really 477 00:29:19,600 --> 00:29:22,960 Speaker 1: that simple. It's not black and white, and it boils 478 00:29:22,960 --> 00:29:26,000 Speaker 1: down to a kind of a variety of answers, and 479 00:29:26,160 --> 00:29:30,240 Speaker 1: in terms of the job being not as creatively fulfilling 480 00:29:30,360 --> 00:29:33,360 Speaker 1: as many people, both men and women expected to be, 481 00:29:33,960 --> 00:29:38,440 Speaker 1: the fact that the education, the architecture education itself prepare 482 00:29:38,480 --> 00:29:42,560 Speaker 1: students poorly for the actual work. So basically saying, you know, 483 00:29:42,640 --> 00:29:45,720 Speaker 1: like our women not going to put up with a 484 00:29:45,840 --> 00:29:47,840 Speaker 1: job not being as creative as they expected or not 485 00:29:48,040 --> 00:29:50,560 Speaker 1: doing the work that they expected, whereas men are gonna 486 00:29:50,640 --> 00:29:53,320 Speaker 1: just deal with it and plow through until eventually there's 487 00:29:53,360 --> 00:29:57,200 Speaker 1: some like big name starchitect. Yeah. I mean, Maria Smith 488 00:29:57,240 --> 00:30:01,960 Speaker 1: definitely seemed unsatisfied with a lot of the go to 489 00:30:02,280 --> 00:30:07,200 Speaker 1: answers for the question of why that drop off from 490 00:30:07,240 --> 00:30:10,320 Speaker 1: to And I mean she highly's the fact that, yeah, 491 00:30:10,400 --> 00:30:14,440 Speaker 1: there is awareness. She cited a women in Architecture survey 492 00:30:14,480 --> 00:30:18,520 Speaker 1: which found that of women and see of men said 493 00:30:18,560 --> 00:30:23,040 Speaker 1: that the profession is too heavily male, but it's still 494 00:30:23,680 --> 00:30:26,240 Speaker 1: it seems like every article that we read about this 495 00:30:27,360 --> 00:30:32,040 Speaker 1: kind of answered some questions but also raised more questions. Um, 496 00:30:32,160 --> 00:30:35,160 Speaker 1: the issue of not so friendly female work environments has 497 00:30:35,200 --> 00:30:39,640 Speaker 1: been pretty firmly established. There is often echoed to this 498 00:30:39,840 --> 00:30:45,920 Speaker 1: traditionally macho culture pandering to so called starchitects, and then 499 00:30:46,200 --> 00:30:50,600 Speaker 1: this dismissal of supposedly feminine design values and being like, 500 00:30:50,600 --> 00:30:54,760 Speaker 1: oh no, stay away, stay away, dampon buildings. Yeah, all 501 00:30:54,800 --> 00:30:58,680 Speaker 1: the curves in those champons. Um. But also there's this 502 00:30:58,800 --> 00:31:01,680 Speaker 1: intensive education track. You know, we just mentioned education, but 503 00:31:01,880 --> 00:31:05,440 Speaker 1: the intense track means that you often are licensed until 504 00:31:05,520 --> 00:31:08,760 Speaker 1: you're late twenties, and so that's bumping up against women 505 00:31:09,400 --> 00:31:11,960 Speaker 1: being you know, ready to have kids or get married. Yeah, 506 00:31:11,960 --> 00:31:14,400 Speaker 1: and I think that even getting it by the late 507 00:31:14,400 --> 00:31:17,600 Speaker 1: twenties is ambitious. I want to say that one statistics 508 00:31:17,680 --> 00:31:20,640 Speaker 1: that on average you're getting it at age thirty four, 509 00:31:20,720 --> 00:31:25,560 Speaker 1: which is right, especially for women today. That is prime 510 00:31:26,320 --> 00:31:30,520 Speaker 1: child having time. If that's in your if that's something 511 00:31:30,520 --> 00:31:33,000 Speaker 1: you want to do. Yeah, but I mean talking about 512 00:31:33,040 --> 00:31:35,440 Speaker 1: men versus women leaving the field. A survey that was 513 00:31:35,480 --> 00:31:39,520 Speaker 1: cited in Gender Studies and Architecture, Space, Power and Difference 514 00:31:39,920 --> 00:31:43,200 Speaker 1: found that None of the guys in the survey cited 515 00:31:43,240 --> 00:31:47,960 Speaker 1: as problems the long hours, the gender related discrimination, healthcare needs, deadlines, 516 00:31:48,480 --> 00:31:50,880 Speaker 1: or needing to spend more time with family as why 517 00:31:50,920 --> 00:31:54,760 Speaker 1: they left. They were simply no longer interested, or they 518 00:31:54,760 --> 00:31:57,800 Speaker 1: just wanted to make more money. Let's talk about money 519 00:31:57,880 --> 00:32:02,840 Speaker 1: for a second. There are some not so favorable employment statistics. 520 00:32:03,160 --> 00:32:07,160 Speaker 1: For instance, if you look at the top tier architects, 521 00:32:07,200 --> 00:32:09,080 Speaker 1: the people who are heading up firms as of two 522 00:32:09,160 --> 00:32:13,280 Speaker 1: thousand eleven, at least only seventeen of principles and partners 523 00:32:13,320 --> 00:32:16,640 Speaker 1: at architecture firms where women in the top five firms 524 00:32:16,640 --> 00:32:20,480 Speaker 1: in the US are all pretty much male dominated. And 525 00:32:20,520 --> 00:32:24,200 Speaker 1: there's also a pretty consistent wage gap in firms and 526 00:32:24,240 --> 00:32:28,080 Speaker 1: also as sole practitioners, women consistently earned anywhere from seven 527 00:32:28,120 --> 00:32:32,680 Speaker 1: to seventeen percent less than men. But again, men are 528 00:32:33,280 --> 00:32:36,640 Speaker 1: consistently likelier to ask for more money at every performance review, 529 00:32:36,640 --> 00:32:39,480 Speaker 1: which kind of echoes back to the fact that they 530 00:32:39,600 --> 00:32:42,040 Speaker 1: might be likelier to leave because they're like, hey, I 531 00:32:42,080 --> 00:32:45,040 Speaker 1: just want more money. And you also have to take 532 00:32:45,080 --> 00:32:48,600 Speaker 1: an account that twice as many female architects are unemployed 533 00:32:48,600 --> 00:32:53,040 Speaker 1: today compared to men. Yeah, I mean, this is something architecture. 534 00:32:53,040 --> 00:32:56,040 Speaker 1: I'm sure has been recovering since then. But during the recession, 535 00:32:56,840 --> 00:32:59,920 Speaker 1: people in architecture were out of a lot of jobs 536 00:33:00,160 --> 00:33:03,959 Speaker 1: and it seemed to hit women disproportionately compared to women. 537 00:33:04,000 --> 00:33:08,160 Speaker 1: Although where does it seem best, at least statistically for 538 00:33:08,240 --> 00:33:12,760 Speaker 1: female architects who have the most jobs Scandinavian women, because 539 00:33:12,920 --> 00:33:19,840 Speaker 1: in pretty much every like quality of life measurement, Scandinavia 540 00:33:19,960 --> 00:33:23,080 Speaker 1: always rules when it comes to women. Yeah, it's yeah, 541 00:33:23,160 --> 00:33:27,320 Speaker 1: gender inequality. What gender that? Um. But you know, let's 542 00:33:27,360 --> 00:33:30,200 Speaker 1: look at the education and mentorship aspect of things. You know, 543 00:33:30,240 --> 00:33:33,680 Speaker 1: we talked about mentorship a lot on the podcast. UM, 544 00:33:33,760 --> 00:33:36,920 Speaker 1: but there was a study on architectural training in Germany, 545 00:33:37,000 --> 00:33:39,680 Speaker 1: the US, and Canada that found there were very few 546 00:33:39,760 --> 00:33:43,760 Speaker 1: female professors of design. They were more commonly found in 547 00:33:43,880 --> 00:33:48,840 Speaker 1: architectural history and environmental psychology. And so this raises the 548 00:33:48,920 --> 00:33:55,840 Speaker 1: question of whether architectural education promotes a male dominated practical model. Thus, 549 00:33:55,880 --> 00:33:59,040 Speaker 1: you know, sort of mitigating these supposed sex differences in 550 00:33:59,080 --> 00:34:01,080 Speaker 1: the final design, whether you're a man or a woman, 551 00:34:01,120 --> 00:34:03,560 Speaker 1: if you have someone who is male training you, you 552 00:34:03,640 --> 00:34:08,960 Speaker 1: might adopt their outlook. Basically. Yeah, in gender studies and architecture, 553 00:34:09,160 --> 00:34:13,280 Speaker 1: cited a couple of women in architecture who think that, Yeah, 554 00:34:13,360 --> 00:34:16,640 Speaker 1: that's absolutely the case. Jane Park, for instance, said, quote, 555 00:34:17,280 --> 00:34:20,200 Speaker 1: architects who are women and or come from a working 556 00:34:20,239 --> 00:34:23,799 Speaker 1: class background have to acquire an outlook similar to that 557 00:34:24,200 --> 00:34:27,800 Speaker 1: of middle class males, the dominant group in the architectural profession. 558 00:34:28,120 --> 00:34:30,640 Speaker 1: This is why we shouldn't expect buildings designed by women 559 00:34:30,640 --> 00:34:34,680 Speaker 1: to have any qualities distinct from those designed by men. Yeah. 560 00:34:34,680 --> 00:34:37,800 Speaker 1: And Janice gold Frank also agrees, but notes the differences. 561 00:34:37,880 --> 00:34:40,120 Speaker 1: She says, my own impression is that men and women 562 00:34:40,120 --> 00:34:43,319 Speaker 1: designed differently, their approaches to design reflecting their upbringing and 563 00:34:43,360 --> 00:34:47,000 Speaker 1: life experiences. Women often emphasize feelings of well being and 564 00:34:47,120 --> 00:34:50,560 Speaker 1: harmony in a building rather than a structure's visual impact. 565 00:34:50,880 --> 00:34:54,480 Speaker 1: These differences are not drastic, however, as women building and 566 00:34:54,520 --> 00:34:57,880 Speaker 1: designing today have learned their trade from men. So I 567 00:34:57,880 --> 00:35:00,319 Speaker 1: mean again, though it seems like with that I shotion 568 00:35:00,400 --> 00:35:06,000 Speaker 1: of doy designed differently, the answer always wants to be yes, 569 00:35:06,880 --> 00:35:11,359 Speaker 1: which isn't necessarily a bad thing, but just some architectural 570 00:35:11,400 --> 00:35:13,719 Speaker 1: food for thought. And really, I'm so curious to hear 571 00:35:13,800 --> 00:35:18,439 Speaker 1: from any architects or students of architecture, just people who 572 00:35:18,520 --> 00:35:23,439 Speaker 1: are familiar with architecture to weigh in on this. But 573 00:35:23,840 --> 00:35:27,120 Speaker 1: when it comes so to so few women being at 574 00:35:27,120 --> 00:35:30,400 Speaker 1: the top, that means, of course, it's less likely for 575 00:35:30,440 --> 00:35:33,720 Speaker 1: female up and comers to get mentored by other women 576 00:35:34,000 --> 00:35:39,000 Speaker 1: at the top. And we haven't even mentioned motherhood, childcare. 577 00:35:39,200 --> 00:35:41,839 Speaker 1: This is a big issue, yeah, and this whole yeah, 578 00:35:41,880 --> 00:35:44,200 Speaker 1: the issue of leaving to become a mother or once 579 00:35:44,239 --> 00:35:46,800 Speaker 1: you've become a mother. And Alison Brooks, who's the director 580 00:35:46,840 --> 00:35:49,960 Speaker 1: of Alison Brooks Architects, says that cost of childcare is 581 00:35:50,000 --> 00:35:54,920 Speaker 1: the number one reason that women leave. And Jessica Reynolds, 582 00:35:54,960 --> 00:35:58,839 Speaker 1: the direct a director at VPPR, says, you know, it's 583 00:35:58,840 --> 00:36:02,600 Speaker 1: not an accident that many well known female architects are childless, 584 00:36:02,640 --> 00:36:05,280 Speaker 1: just like Julie Morgan who said, you know what, no kids, 585 00:36:05,360 --> 00:36:09,040 Speaker 1: that's fine, My buildings will be my legacy. Yeah. Well, 586 00:36:09,080 --> 00:36:13,280 Speaker 1: and I think this ties into Architects Journal survey where 587 00:36:13,320 --> 00:36:16,640 Speaker 1: in percent of women respondents said that they felt like 588 00:36:16,680 --> 00:36:21,360 Speaker 1: having kids would hold their careers back, but interestingly, of 589 00:36:21,440 --> 00:36:24,960 Speaker 1: male respondence to the same survey didn't think that women 590 00:36:25,000 --> 00:36:29,600 Speaker 1: having kids would affect their careers. Women's careers, it's interesting 591 00:36:29,600 --> 00:36:32,239 Speaker 1: that men have that different perception that like, why would 592 00:36:32,280 --> 00:36:35,080 Speaker 1: you think that? Well this, Well, one thing that was 593 00:36:35,120 --> 00:36:38,960 Speaker 1: noted to in terms of the culture of firms and 594 00:36:39,000 --> 00:36:43,520 Speaker 1: when people leave, is that there's a distrust of people 595 00:36:43,640 --> 00:36:45,600 Speaker 1: leaving and then wanting to come back. It's like, no, 596 00:36:45,800 --> 00:36:49,799 Speaker 1: once you're gone, just go. That's so strange. Probably, well, 597 00:36:49,840 --> 00:36:52,600 Speaker 1: the I mean think about all of the time invests 598 00:36:52,640 --> 00:36:54,759 Speaker 1: in the same way. I don't know. It seems even 599 00:36:54,840 --> 00:36:59,040 Speaker 1: more intense almost than law, which is a ton of 600 00:36:59,040 --> 00:37:02,200 Speaker 1: hours every week. You're always buried in work, but it 601 00:37:02,200 --> 00:37:04,480 Speaker 1: seems like there's at least more room to come and 602 00:37:04,520 --> 00:37:09,680 Speaker 1: go with that, whereas architecture seems even more rigid. Well, 603 00:37:09,680 --> 00:37:11,400 Speaker 1: that's another thing that I help our listeners tell us 604 00:37:11,400 --> 00:37:14,560 Speaker 1: about because I am curious about that. Yes, in dynamic 605 00:37:14,960 --> 00:37:16,839 Speaker 1: for listeners who aren't to wear Caroline and I are 606 00:37:16,880 --> 00:37:20,879 Speaker 1: not architects, although when I was twelve, I did want 607 00:37:20,920 --> 00:37:25,759 Speaker 1: to become one, and I drew a number of really 608 00:37:26,160 --> 00:37:30,799 Speaker 1: boring houses until I realized, you know what, Kristen, I 609 00:37:30,840 --> 00:37:33,160 Speaker 1: don't think this is your strength. I'm sure you had 610 00:37:33,200 --> 00:37:35,680 Speaker 1: all the important elements, Kristen, the sun in the corner 611 00:37:35,680 --> 00:37:39,520 Speaker 1: at the box, the triangle, the triangle, roof, the rectangle chimney. 612 00:37:39,520 --> 00:37:41,799 Speaker 1: There were flowers outside, and I had and I can 613 00:37:41,840 --> 00:37:44,560 Speaker 1: still remember it so clearly. I had a cool card 614 00:37:44,600 --> 00:37:49,560 Speaker 1: again that I would wear while drawing my little architectural plans. 615 00:37:50,239 --> 00:37:52,440 Speaker 1: But I felt like kind of tied the whole thing together. 616 00:37:52,600 --> 00:37:55,520 Speaker 1: I'm sure it did. Yeah, I'm sure I was. At 617 00:37:55,560 --> 00:37:59,719 Speaker 1: the time, I was wearing my red stegosaurus sweatshirt that 618 00:37:59,800 --> 00:38:01,839 Speaker 1: how a picture of a stegosaurus with the words stegosaurus 619 00:38:01,920 --> 00:38:04,719 Speaker 1: under it. Butting archaeologists over here and they're kidding. Yeah, 620 00:38:04,719 --> 00:38:06,839 Speaker 1: I like neither one of us. We didn't ben here 621 00:38:06,840 --> 00:38:10,680 Speaker 1: we are and here we are those who those who 622 00:38:10,680 --> 00:38:16,520 Speaker 1: can't do podcasts, Oh, which man out. But so let's 623 00:38:16,800 --> 00:38:19,160 Speaker 1: let's talk about women who are doing things outside of 624 00:38:19,160 --> 00:38:23,200 Speaker 1: the podcast studio today. There are plenty of interesting names. 625 00:38:23,239 --> 00:38:25,280 Speaker 1: But again, you know, Chris and I were not architects, 626 00:38:25,320 --> 00:38:27,160 Speaker 1: and we don't know everyone in the field. But we 627 00:38:27,200 --> 00:38:29,319 Speaker 1: can provide a few names of women who are out 628 00:38:29,320 --> 00:38:33,880 Speaker 1: there kicking. But there's Zahahadd who is probably the best 629 00:38:33,960 --> 00:38:38,080 Speaker 1: known female architect living today. In two thousand four, for instance, 630 00:38:38,080 --> 00:38:40,840 Speaker 1: she became the first woman to win the Pritzker Prize, 631 00:38:41,080 --> 00:38:44,640 Speaker 1: which is the industry's top honor. Yes, sah deed. You 632 00:38:44,680 --> 00:38:47,319 Speaker 1: also might know her from the Daily Show because Jon 633 00:38:47,400 --> 00:38:49,880 Speaker 1: Stewart had a lot to say about her design for 634 00:38:49,920 --> 00:38:52,880 Speaker 1: a stadium and cutter uh that he said, look like 635 00:38:52,920 --> 00:38:55,239 Speaker 1: a vagina, And it does look like a vagina. Does 636 00:38:55,280 --> 00:38:57,480 Speaker 1: look I'm sorry, it does look like a vagina. But 637 00:38:58,239 --> 00:39:01,719 Speaker 1: she was not happy with at and she said that basically, 638 00:39:01,760 --> 00:39:04,520 Speaker 1: you wouldn't be saying that about a stadium a man designed. 639 00:39:04,520 --> 00:39:05,960 Speaker 1: It's just because I designed it. And it's like, well, 640 00:39:06,560 --> 00:39:11,000 Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure, I'm okay. But isn't her frustration understandable 641 00:39:11,320 --> 00:39:15,560 Speaker 1: now knowing what we know about architectural history. But I thought, 642 00:39:15,600 --> 00:39:17,320 Speaker 1: you know, so it's a very curt Obviously it's a 643 00:39:17,400 --> 00:39:19,600 Speaker 1: very curvy stadium. If you want to go google it 644 00:39:19,760 --> 00:39:22,400 Speaker 1: right now, Um, it's very curvy. And she has a 645 00:39:22,400 --> 00:39:25,040 Speaker 1: great quote, because there's all of this talking about how 646 00:39:25,080 --> 00:39:28,400 Speaker 1: women and men supposedly have different design ideals and aesthetics 647 00:39:28,400 --> 00:39:31,479 Speaker 1: and everything, she has a great quote that why would 648 00:39:31,520 --> 00:39:34,319 Speaker 1: you design at just one angle? Why would you just 649 00:39:34,360 --> 00:39:36,799 Speaker 1: go straight up? There are three hundred and fifty nine 650 00:39:36,880 --> 00:39:42,080 Speaker 1: other degrees? And so I like that. I like that perspective. Um. 651 00:39:42,120 --> 00:39:46,279 Speaker 1: There's also the amazing Denise Scott Brown, who was snubbed 652 00:39:46,320 --> 00:39:49,680 Speaker 1: for the very same Pritzker Prize in nine but it 653 00:39:49,719 --> 00:39:53,480 Speaker 1: was awarded to her husband Robert Venturi that year. Uh. 654 00:39:53,520 --> 00:39:56,040 Speaker 1: And they the thing is like one can't exist without 655 00:39:56,040 --> 00:39:58,520 Speaker 1: the other. They definitely had careers and education and all 656 00:39:58,520 --> 00:40:00,760 Speaker 1: of that stuff before they met where they got married, 657 00:40:00,960 --> 00:40:03,920 Speaker 1: but basically once they came together and combined forces, they 658 00:40:03,920 --> 00:40:05,920 Speaker 1: were they were a much greater force of nature. And 659 00:40:05,960 --> 00:40:08,680 Speaker 1: so a lot of people, particularly some students at Harvard 660 00:40:08,680 --> 00:40:12,359 Speaker 1: who were protesting this snub, said that you can't you 661 00:40:12,400 --> 00:40:14,439 Speaker 1: can't have one without the other. She needs to be 662 00:40:14,800 --> 00:40:19,319 Speaker 1: recognized too. And and Scott Brown has been enormously influential 663 00:40:19,440 --> 00:40:22,840 Speaker 1: her Her focus has been on buildings in Los Angeles 664 00:40:23,120 --> 00:40:26,359 Speaker 1: and in Las Vegas. And she's also she's pretty feminist. Yeah, 665 00:40:26,400 --> 00:40:29,120 Speaker 1: she's pretty out about feminism and has said before like, 666 00:40:29,160 --> 00:40:34,200 Speaker 1: if you're a woman in architecture, you need feminism to 667 00:40:34,239 --> 00:40:37,280 Speaker 1: get you through. And she also called the Pritzker Prize 668 00:40:37,280 --> 00:40:40,160 Speaker 1: I quote that old white man's award, to which I 669 00:40:40,200 --> 00:40:43,440 Speaker 1: wonder if husband Robert was like, hey, well now her 670 00:40:43,520 --> 00:40:48,360 Speaker 1: husband signed that Harvard petition to get her on the 671 00:40:48,400 --> 00:40:51,200 Speaker 1: award as well well. And didn't they in follow up 672 00:40:51,200 --> 00:40:52,839 Speaker 1: to that be like, well, we're not going to give 673 00:40:53,040 --> 00:40:55,879 Speaker 1: you the award, but we're going to honor a woman 674 00:40:55,920 --> 00:40:58,760 Speaker 1: who died a really long time ago, Julie Morgan. Here 675 00:40:58,840 --> 00:41:01,480 Speaker 1: you go. Oh no, that was sorry, that was the 676 00:41:01,520 --> 00:41:04,760 Speaker 1: ai A giving her a gold medal. Yeah. I mean, basically, 677 00:41:04,760 --> 00:41:08,640 Speaker 1: the Harvard students were protesting the idea that the prize 678 00:41:08,719 --> 00:41:12,320 Speaker 1: jury was upholding some idea of this lone wolf male 679 00:41:12,440 --> 00:41:16,400 Speaker 1: starch attect that hey, you can't have Robert Venture without 680 00:41:16,520 --> 00:41:20,160 Speaker 1: Denise Scott Brown and so screw you, guys. But it 681 00:41:20,360 --> 00:41:22,839 Speaker 1: is kind of especially gross when you read about them 682 00:41:22,880 --> 00:41:25,799 Speaker 1: and you realize that her husband is often considered this 683 00:41:25,880 --> 00:41:29,040 Speaker 1: like quiet and easy going type, and she's considered a brash, 684 00:41:29,120 --> 00:41:31,680 Speaker 1: loud mouth, and so I just love it that she's like, well, 685 00:41:31,760 --> 00:41:34,880 Speaker 1: so screw you. Yeah, she probably doesn't consider that an 686 00:41:34,880 --> 00:41:40,120 Speaker 1: insult either, nor should she. Well, also in Chicago we 687 00:41:40,160 --> 00:41:43,959 Speaker 1: have Jene Gang, who is a highly respected architect, and 688 00:41:44,360 --> 00:41:48,920 Speaker 1: the Aqua Tower in Chicago is the tallest building designed 689 00:41:48,960 --> 00:41:51,520 Speaker 1: by a woman, which is a little bit of a 690 00:41:51,520 --> 00:41:54,919 Speaker 1: backhanded accolade, which some people are saying, like, why why 691 00:41:55,000 --> 00:41:59,959 Speaker 1: even add that qualifier in there? Stop stop ghetto wise 692 00:42:00,000 --> 00:42:05,759 Speaker 1: saying our buildings and new cares um so, and those 693 00:42:05,760 --> 00:42:08,600 Speaker 1: are only three names. There are a lot of other 694 00:42:08,719 --> 00:42:11,960 Speaker 1: names that we could continue taking off because there are 695 00:42:12,480 --> 00:42:16,960 Speaker 1: women who are building incredible buildings and creating incredible spaces 696 00:42:17,040 --> 00:42:21,279 Speaker 1: and innovating in this field and calling attention to that 697 00:42:21,600 --> 00:42:27,000 Speaker 1: fifty percent to drop off. And uh, we want to 698 00:42:27,040 --> 00:42:30,320 Speaker 1: hear perhaps from some of you who are in the field. 699 00:42:30,480 --> 00:42:32,880 Speaker 1: What what do you think about women architecture. Is it 700 00:42:32,920 --> 00:42:37,279 Speaker 1: important for women to build buildings to be you know, 701 00:42:37,280 --> 00:42:40,560 Speaker 1: whether it's on a construction site doing the actual physical 702 00:42:40,640 --> 00:42:43,160 Speaker 1: labor of building and building or doing the design work. 703 00:42:43,200 --> 00:42:45,759 Speaker 1: And why does that make a difference? And I'll tell 704 00:42:45,800 --> 00:42:48,640 Speaker 1: you what, some feminist architects would have a lot to 705 00:42:48,640 --> 00:42:50,600 Speaker 1: tell you about it. So I want to hear from you. 706 00:42:50,719 --> 00:42:53,400 Speaker 1: Mom Stuff at house Stuffworks dot Com is our email address. 707 00:42:53,400 --> 00:42:56,120 Speaker 1: You can also tweet us at mom Stuff podcast or 708 00:42:56,239 --> 00:42:58,640 Speaker 1: messages on Facebook. And I've got a couple of messages 709 00:42:58,640 --> 00:43:05,200 Speaker 1: this year with you. Now, well, I have a letter 710 00:43:05,239 --> 00:43:10,200 Speaker 1: here from autumn. She's writing in about our undepense episode. Uh. 711 00:43:10,520 --> 00:43:12,640 Speaker 1: She says, thanks for the wonderful episode on the history 712 00:43:12,640 --> 00:43:15,960 Speaker 1: of underwear. It was both fascinating and amusing. It made 713 00:43:16,000 --> 00:43:18,080 Speaker 1: me think of a story that I'd love to share. 714 00:43:18,760 --> 00:43:20,400 Speaker 1: When I was a kid, we had a bin of 715 00:43:20,520 --> 00:43:23,640 Speaker 1: dress up clothes that we used for play and Halloween costuming. 716 00:43:24,080 --> 00:43:25,880 Speaker 1: In it were many old things that belonged to my 717 00:43:25,920 --> 00:43:29,280 Speaker 1: grandmother and great grandmother. Basically, my mother felt bad about 718 00:43:29,280 --> 00:43:31,879 Speaker 1: throwing out anything old when my grandparents died, so all 719 00:43:31,920 --> 00:43:34,640 Speaker 1: the things got tossed in the box and forgotten. When 720 00:43:34,640 --> 00:43:36,640 Speaker 1: I was sixteen, my high school put on the musical 721 00:43:36,680 --> 00:43:38,880 Speaker 1: Filler on the Roof, which is said in nineteen o five. 722 00:43:39,400 --> 00:43:41,799 Speaker 1: Searching through all the old clothes, I found a pair 723 00:43:41,880 --> 00:43:45,880 Speaker 1: of very full draw string cotton bloomers, complete with split crotch. 724 00:43:46,360 --> 00:43:48,120 Speaker 1: My mom and I determined that they had belonged to 725 00:43:48,120 --> 00:43:50,400 Speaker 1: my great grandmother, who lived from eighteen eight six to 726 00:43:50,480 --> 00:43:53,040 Speaker 1: nineteen fifty nine. Not sure of the exact age of 727 00:43:53,040 --> 00:43:56,799 Speaker 1: the bloomers, but we guess they predated ninety. I thought 728 00:43:56,800 --> 00:43:58,640 Speaker 1: they were perfect to be part of my costume, and 729 00:43:58,680 --> 00:44:02,040 Speaker 1: more than proudly on age with tights underneath. It felt 730 00:44:02,080 --> 00:44:06,720 Speaker 1: really neat to have historically accurate underwear beneath my dress. Backstage, 731 00:44:06,800 --> 00:44:09,400 Speaker 1: someone noticed that the bloomers had a split crotch and 732 00:44:09,440 --> 00:44:12,000 Speaker 1: called me out on it. When told that they were 733 00:44:12,000 --> 00:44:16,240 Speaker 1: my great grandmother's. Jokes started circulating about my crotchless great 734 00:44:16,400 --> 00:44:19,319 Speaker 1: granny panties. It was all in good fun and proof 735 00:44:19,320 --> 00:44:22,680 Speaker 1: that we kids knew nothing about underwear of the past. Sadly, 736 00:44:22,719 --> 00:44:25,200 Speaker 1: the one hundred year old cotton did not last after 737 00:44:25,200 --> 00:44:27,680 Speaker 1: its stage outing. It got a rip and I put 738 00:44:27,680 --> 00:44:30,440 Speaker 1: them away. Ten years later, I was in another production 739 00:44:30,480 --> 00:44:34,120 Speaker 1: of Fiddler and felt sadly underdressed without my ancestral underwear. 740 00:44:34,760 --> 00:44:37,240 Speaker 1: The idea of what my great grandmother would have thought 741 00:44:37,239 --> 00:44:39,680 Speaker 1: if someone had told her that her underwear would be 742 00:44:39,680 --> 00:44:42,160 Speaker 1: worn as a costume and of play one day amuses me. 743 00:44:42,760 --> 00:44:45,280 Speaker 1: If I try to think of my own cheapie Haynes 744 00:44:45,400 --> 00:44:48,440 Speaker 1: cotton hipsters being worn a hundred years from now, it 745 00:44:48,560 --> 00:44:53,080 Speaker 1: seems impossible and just plain weird. So thank you for 746 00:44:53,120 --> 00:44:54,920 Speaker 1: your letter Autumn. Well, I've got a let her here 747 00:44:55,040 --> 00:44:59,759 Speaker 1: from Genevieve about our episode on Hollywood's first female directors, 748 00:44:59,760 --> 00:45:02,120 Speaker 1: and he writes, I have to say I learned a lot. 749 00:45:02,360 --> 00:45:04,640 Speaker 1: I graduated from film school almost two years ago and 750 00:45:04,680 --> 00:45:08,040 Speaker 1: had no idea about Alice key Blache, Lois Webber, or 751 00:45:08,080 --> 00:45:10,759 Speaker 1: many of the other amazing ladies you covered. I'm so 752 00:45:10,800 --> 00:45:14,000 Speaker 1: excited to start watching your films. When I first started college, 753 00:45:14,000 --> 00:45:15,920 Speaker 1: I thought I wanted to be a director, but it 754 00:45:15,960 --> 00:45:18,040 Speaker 1: was in school that I learned to edit and appreciate 755 00:45:18,080 --> 00:45:21,200 Speaker 1: the art of making film into its final product. Right now, 756 00:45:21,239 --> 00:45:25,040 Speaker 1: I'm an editor for a wedding videography company, nothing glamorous. 757 00:45:25,520 --> 00:45:27,359 Speaker 1: My girlfriend and I live in Long Beach right now, 758 00:45:27,360 --> 00:45:29,560 Speaker 1: but when she finishes film school is semester, were moving 759 00:45:29,600 --> 00:45:31,440 Speaker 1: to l A to be closer to all the real 760 00:45:31,560 --> 00:45:34,080 Speaker 1: jobs and quotes. I have to admit I'm a bit 761 00:45:34,080 --> 00:45:36,879 Speaker 1: nervous about breaking into the industry. Many of my friends 762 00:45:36,960 --> 00:45:39,560 Speaker 1: have told me horror stories of sexist bosses and the like, 763 00:45:39,880 --> 00:45:42,399 Speaker 1: which concerns me even more since I'm a pretty, butch 764 00:45:42,440 --> 00:45:46,120 Speaker 1: looking woman. My biggest fear is being judged by my 765 00:45:46,160 --> 00:45:48,799 Speaker 1: appearance before my work can speak for itself. If I 766 00:45:48,840 --> 00:45:51,080 Speaker 1: had my dream job, I would be mentored by a 767 00:45:51,120 --> 00:45:55,359 Speaker 1: female editor like Thelma Schoonmacher or Joan Sobel. You two 768 00:45:55,440 --> 00:45:58,120 Speaker 1: are awesome. I'm a new listener and have since gotten 769 00:45:58,160 --> 00:46:03,680 Speaker 1: my cousin on this smnty train. All the best, Genevieve, Well, Genevieve, 770 00:46:04,280 --> 00:46:06,360 Speaker 1: first of all, I just want to congratulate you for 771 00:46:06,440 --> 00:46:10,400 Speaker 1: following your dream. If anything, that is awesome and you 772 00:46:10,480 --> 00:46:12,720 Speaker 1: have all the skills ladies, so you're gonna be awesome 773 00:46:12,840 --> 00:46:15,200 Speaker 1: in l A. And I can't wait to see some 774 00:46:15,280 --> 00:46:18,080 Speaker 1: incredible film that you're going to edit. So thank you 775 00:46:18,080 --> 00:46:20,520 Speaker 1: in advance for that, and thank you in advance for 776 00:46:20,560 --> 00:46:23,520 Speaker 1: all of everyone else's letters. Mom. Stuff at how stuff 777 00:46:23,520 --> 00:46:25,799 Speaker 1: works dot com is our email address and for links 778 00:46:25,840 --> 00:46:27,480 Speaker 1: to all of our social media as well as all 779 00:46:27,480 --> 00:46:30,960 Speaker 1: of our blogs, videos, and podcasts, including our sources, so 780 00:46:31,000 --> 00:46:33,680 Speaker 1: you can follow right along. Head on over to stuff 781 00:46:33,719 --> 00:46:39,480 Speaker 1: Mom Never Told You dot com for more on this 782 00:46:39,680 --> 00:46:42,359 Speaker 1: and thousands of other topics. Does it staff works dot 783 00:46:42,360 --> 00:46:50,240 Speaker 1: com