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Speaker 1: Thinking Sideways. I don't know stories of things. We simply
Speaker 1: don't know the answer too. Hi there, welcome to another
Speaker 1: episode of Thinking Sideways. I'm Joe, joined this week as
Speaker 1: always by Devon and Steve, and we're here to solve
Speaker 1: another cool mystery. Uh. This is one that's been doubled
Speaker 1: the world for almost three decades now. It's made me
Speaker 1: look like an idiot. Yeah. No, I've tried to break
Speaker 1: this mystery. That no, luck, not me. I try to
Speaker 1: admit my ignorance and things like better. Yeah I didn't
Speaker 1: even try. Yeah no, no, that's so that's okay. By
Speaker 1: the end of the episode, we will have solved it,
Speaker 1: so don't worry about that. Uh. This has been around
Speaker 1: for twenty six and a half years right now, and
Speaker 1: it holds supposedly that maybe possibly a secret to a
Speaker 1: hidden treasure. Well, we really don't know, or maybe something
Speaker 1: or something or maybe nothing. Yeah, maybe maybe just a
Speaker 1: note or something like that. I don't know. We'll find
Speaker 1: out at the end. Uh. Yeah. So first of all,
Speaker 1: let me say what we're talking about here. We're talking
Speaker 1: about none other than cryptos. And you probably heard about that.
Speaker 1: That's a sculpture at the CIA in Langley, Virginia. Yeah, cryptos.
Speaker 1: And you think if you haven't heard about it, what
Speaker 1: you've heard about it now? And also a little shout
Speaker 1: out to a few of our listeners. Actually several us
Speaker 1: suggested this, I think Rhona and Sean, Linda, Alex And
Speaker 1: that's how far we got before we started saying and
Speaker 1: then everybody. Yeah yeah, so thanks guys, we really appreciate
Speaker 1: the suggestion. Um And I, for my part, I've been
Speaker 1: doing a little too much murder in Mayhem lately, so
Speaker 1: I thought I'd take a break and do something different,
Speaker 1: and next time I'll go back to some grizzly murders.
Speaker 1: But yeah, let's do cryptography. Yeah, yeah, yeah, Well, let's
Speaker 1: go back to the beginning. In the late nineteen eighties,
Speaker 1: the brass of the CIA decided the agency was missing
Speaker 1: something like, you know, operational security or maybe better better intel,
Speaker 1: or employees who weren't rushing moles. Oh no, no, that
Speaker 1: wasn't it. Now. They didn't have any publicly funded art installations,
Speaker 1: and so they commissioned one, and they hired a sculptor
Speaker 1: named Jim Sandboard to create this sculpture. And and actually
Speaker 1: we actually I think the government in this case got
Speaker 1: pretty good Bangford's buck. Oh yeah, desolutely, yeah, better than
Speaker 1: d I A for sure. Yeah, definitely. That's just a rock.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, that's that one downtown outside Pioneer Place, which
Speaker 1: is several rocks in a row. It's like, well, well,
Speaker 1: how do I get that job? Yeah, you'll give music
Speaker 1: Monday is the Huns, I will give us sculpture. He
Speaker 1: just did an accent. That wasn't German, no is the
Speaker 1: French was a German French anyway, soologies to our French
Speaker 1: listeners and German listeners. Yeah. Well, at the time this
Speaker 1: was commissioned, this is towards the end of the Cold War,
Speaker 1: though we didn't really know it at the time, the
Speaker 1: Berlin Wall was still standing, and as far as any
Speaker 1: of us knew, because I was alive back then, we
Speaker 1: all thought it was going to stay standing for a
Speaker 1: lot long. We all figured it would come down sooner
Speaker 1: or later. But when it came down, it was kind
Speaker 1: of it was kind of a surprise for all of us,
Speaker 1: It really was. It was all of a sudden. Uh So,
Speaker 1: something commissioned today by the CIA might be a little
Speaker 1: more cynical. If it were me, I would create a giant,
Speaker 1: shifty looking bronze mole with a file folder in his
Speaker 1: mouth that Yeah, and they probably would like show me
Speaker 1: the door. Yeah, they'd look at your concept and you'd
Speaker 1: go into a deep dark room and bottom it never
Speaker 1: come out. Yeah, go to our waiting room. Yeah, stay
Speaker 1: there for about five years. But Jim Simbord created something
Speaker 1: more serious. Uh. And like I said, he the public
Speaker 1: got good bank for its buck with this one. And
Speaker 1: it's kept a lot of cryptography nerds busy, and a
Speaker 1: lot of people were still racking their brains over it.
Speaker 1: And I mean a lot of people, some very smart people,
Speaker 1: and of course journalists have managed to get lots of
Speaker 1: good news stories out of it over the years. So
Speaker 1: it's been a win all the way around, I think. Uh.
Speaker 1: And it's still unsolved, or at least part of it is.
Speaker 1: So can you I mean, I know what cryptos looks like.
Speaker 1: You know, we all in this room, but I think
Speaker 1: a lot of people probably don't. So Yeah, if you're
Speaker 1: not near a browser and you can't do you know,
Speaker 1: bring yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So if you're driving, just close
Speaker 1: your eyes and try to bring this. Don't and left
Speaker 1: to Joe, but don't close your eyes, Okay, all right? Yeah.
Speaker 1: If if there's no rest area nearby, I keep your
Speaker 1: eyes open. Uh so let me describe it here. If
Speaker 1: you're standing on most of the pictures that are are
Speaker 1: taken from one side of it, and that's a side
Speaker 1: where you can look at the writing and it's correct.
Speaker 1: It's a bunch of yeah, it's a bunch of ye,
Speaker 1: and so that and that. When you're looking at it
Speaker 1: from that side. There is a large petrified log standing
Speaker 1: upright on the sand on one end, on the right side,
Speaker 1: tall something like that. It's pretty good size. Yeah, nice, nice,
Speaker 1: nice log. I wouldn't mind having that log. Yeah. And
Speaker 1: then there's a tall copper plate that sort of scrolls
Speaker 1: out like a sheet of paper as if it were
Speaker 1: like like a scroll. And I want to point out
Speaker 1: it's real copper. So it's actually green now exactly. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: so everybody knows. Yeah, so yeah, I don't don't. Don't
Speaker 1: go to Google and look at the picture say no,
Speaker 1: it is really copper. But and it scrolls out like
Speaker 1: so if you're standing to this side, it scrolls away
Speaker 1: from you, and then it goes in a semicircle back
Speaker 1: towards you, and then it curves the way around the
Speaker 1: other way, so it scrolls around and away from you again.
Speaker 1: On the one side facing towards you, it's just marble like,
Speaker 1: it's just like a marble marble ground there. And on
Speaker 1: the other side of it, of the semi circle loop whatever,
Speaker 1: there's a little round pool in the arc of the
Speaker 1: S shape that the comprehend. Yeah, the tail in the bottom. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so that's that actually is kind of like the other
Speaker 1: end of the scroll that that it's wrapping around. If
Speaker 1: you can't imagine that. And uh, and it was obvious
Speaker 1: to me the first time I looked at it that
Speaker 1: the symbol the symbolism it symbolizes, I think, the division
Speaker 1: of our world into smoking and non smoking areas because
Speaker 1: and really, when you think about it, it it makes sense
Speaker 1: because when you're standing on the right side, which is
Speaker 1: a part that doesn't have the pool in it, you
Speaker 1: can actually stand inside the sculpture. But if you go
Speaker 1: on the other side, the smoking side, you can't stand inside.
Speaker 1: You have to stand outside, just like smokers do. Yeah.
Speaker 1: And and the little the little pool in the center
Speaker 1: makes a great place to show your butts. Yeah, it's
Speaker 1: not what it's intended for. I like it. Um, yeah,
Speaker 1: let's let's get back to our more description. Um, there
Speaker 1: are letters cut into this copper sheet about seventeen hunters
Speaker 1: or sold letters. Yeah, and they're they're actually, like some
Speaker 1: people said, stamped out. I don't know if they were
Speaker 1: cut out with a torch or stamped or what, but
Speaker 1: they go all the way through, so they're not just
Speaker 1: they were probably knowing the time that it was made,
Speaker 1: it was probably done with like a water jet or
Speaker 1: something like that, where some kind of computer controlled device
Speaker 1: to be able to cut them with the precision that
Speaker 1: they're done. Yeah, and today would probably be a laser yeah, leasure. Yeah, Yeah,
Speaker 1: you're mispronouncing that word, Joe, I'm sorry. Okay, of course
Speaker 1: you can find drawings of the text part of the
Speaker 1: sculpture online, and i'll describe that real briefly. It's shaped
Speaker 1: like a rectangle, which is divided into four smaller rectangles.
Speaker 1: The two right rectangles show the English alphabet that's repeated
Speaker 1: over and over again with the word cryptos inserted into
Speaker 1: the text, which is a big hint because actually it
Speaker 1: turns out to be one of the keys for the
Speaker 1: encryption cipher of the first two messages, and because this
Speaker 1: whole thing is one giant cipher. We haven't said that,
Speaker 1: you know, the whole, the whole sculpture is well, yeah,
Speaker 1: the left half is the message and the right half
Speaker 1: is the key, Okay, so that Yeah, the two rectangles
Speaker 1: on the left hand side the top Okay, So the
Speaker 1: top half or either the upper left hand rectangle isn't
Speaker 1: cut it with what's called the visionary at cipher, which
Speaker 1: is named after a French cryptographer called Blows the vision are.
Speaker 1: He was a sixteenth century dude, and actually he apparently
Speaker 1: did not invent this this method. It was invented by
Speaker 1: some guy named what was his name was giovam Batista Beloso,
Speaker 1: who invented also the sixteenth century and then and then
Speaker 1: vision are modified at several decades later and then sooner
Speaker 1: or centuries after that. It was misattributed to him, but
Speaker 1: actually he didn't really invent the concept. Yeah, I kind
Speaker 1: of like that. Yeah, but we don't care. It's it's
Speaker 1: called there. Yeah uh. And here's a quick give me
Speaker 1: a real quick down rundown of how it works. And
Speaker 1: now everybody knows what a Caesar cipher is, right, you
Speaker 1: don't know what the season sisor shift okay, Okay, Yeah,
Speaker 1: Caesar shift is one where it's the the easiest and
Speaker 1: dumbest cipher out there, one where you basically pick a key.
Speaker 1: The key might be safe. Let's say your keys one
Speaker 1: if you're if I were to say, and you're gonna
Speaker 1: shift everything over one, and of course if you can't,
Speaker 1: so you shift everything over three and the alphabet. But
Speaker 1: let's say it's one. So I'm a cryptane say devon,
Speaker 1: So devin d e V I am becomes e f
Speaker 1: W j oh right, okay, that's it. Well see, and
Speaker 1: so but those are ridiculously easy to break. And so
Speaker 1: the vision Air cipher is in the simplest form, like
Speaker 1: a like a Caesar shift. But you pick a key,
Speaker 1: pick up, let's pick a word like say bacon, and
Speaker 1: then we make that our key. And so we shift
Speaker 1: the first character by two because you know b s
Speaker 1: two and the next one is A, so we shift
Speaker 1: the next one by by one. The next one is cee,
Speaker 1: so we shift the next one after that by by three,
Speaker 1: which is first ce and on and on, and then
Speaker 1: we started over again, shifting from to one three blah blah,
Speaker 1: and then shift over two one three, and but of
Speaker 1: course again that leaves a big pattern and then but
Speaker 1: that's in the simplest form that's a vision air cipher
Speaker 1: and that what they did here is there's a little
Speaker 1: craftier one. This is one where to do this one.
Speaker 1: Here's what you do. You sit down and right down
Speaker 1: the whole alphabet A through Z. And in this one
Speaker 1: you used the word cryptos for the for the first
Speaker 1: key for the top key. So write the word cryptos
Speaker 1: to the left of your alphabet, and then go through
Speaker 1: your alphabet and take out every letter that's in the
Speaker 1: word cryptos, so starting with K. So you'll notice that
Speaker 1: if you go through the alphabet, those letters are missing.
Speaker 1: And then so that's it cryptos a trough zy missing
Speaker 1: those letters. What you do is you're going to repeat
Speaker 1: this alphabet underneath that as many times is the length
Speaker 1: of your key. So the first key, the first part
Speaker 1: of the message used the key palump cest which is
Speaker 1: ten characters, so ten rows. But what you do is
Speaker 1: the first row starts at P, so that's how they're
Speaker 1: all shifted around, so palump sest P. So it starts
Speaker 1: with the P and cryptos and goes all the way
Speaker 1: through and at the end k r y from cryptos
Speaker 1: is adented to the end of it. The next one
Speaker 1: is A, so it just starts right A day and
Speaker 1: then cryptos. Next one is L, so it starts L
Speaker 1: through Z and then it says cryptos and then A
Speaker 1: through J. I'm going to ask a question that I
Speaker 1: think I know the answer to, but I want to
Speaker 1: make sure. So you said the key to this is cryptos,
Speaker 1: but Palin pal obsessed is the second key. Oh so
Speaker 1: it's a two key cipher. Yeah, okay, that's the part
Speaker 1: you didn't say. And I was making sure that I
Speaker 1: wasn't missing, okay, And so essentially what you do is
Speaker 1: is let's say I want to encrypt. Uh, we don't
Speaker 1: want to crypt Devin. That's too many letters crypt Joe.
Speaker 1: I like that one. So yeah, So just so the
Speaker 1: first the first line, and this one Jay is in
Speaker 1: and then you get you cat. You go, you go
Speaker 1: to the top line, You pick out your letters, and
Speaker 1: then go down. So the first one it is the
Speaker 1: first line, j U. Second letter OH is the second line,
Speaker 1: So I go to OH, and that goes down to
Speaker 1: the second row, which is F. And then and this
Speaker 1: is going to be incomprehensible to you people who are
Speaker 1: just listening. And then I go over to the E
Speaker 1: and I go down to the third line and that
Speaker 1: is why. So that is how. So that is how
Speaker 1: my name is encrypted. And then yeah, and then what
Speaker 1: I do is when I when I want to decrypt
Speaker 1: the message, I come back through and this since this
Speaker 1: is a and I know that since I'm decrypting it
Speaker 1: and I'm not a cryptographer, I'm actually the intended recipient.
Speaker 1: I know the two keys. That's the beauty of the
Speaker 1: system is that, since you know, it's easy to remember
Speaker 1: two words. And so the guy that's that gets this message,
Speaker 1: he doesn't have to carry a codebook around him. He
Speaker 1: can just he can just sit down and write the
Speaker 1: whole thing out because he knows those keys. And then
Speaker 1: when he's done deciphering the message, he can just burn
Speaker 1: He could just burn his key that he has created.
Speaker 1: So for everybody listening, I know that this can be
Speaker 1: kind of tough to to understand. There's a great book
Speaker 1: out there, and Joe help me with this book. Yes,
Speaker 1: is that the Is that the actual title of it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's called the Codebook, and I can't remember who wrote it.
Speaker 1: We've talked about it about three years ago when we
Speaker 1: did the last Cipher episode. It is The Codebook is
Speaker 1: a great book to at least go through. He does
Speaker 1: a much better job of making this kind of stuff
Speaker 1: palatable to the layment. And that would be a book
Speaker 1: i'd recommend to to look through. Yeah, that's it. Really
Speaker 1: is kind of hard to make this totally understandable when
Speaker 1: you because it's a very visual thing. I mean, I've
Speaker 1: got I've got this table right in front of me,
Speaker 1: and it's very easy for me. You guys would have
Speaker 1: it too, iron I was gonna say, I have it
Speaker 1: in front of me, and I do not understand it
Speaker 1: at all. But the good news is I don't try
Speaker 1: to decide from just like yeah, now and and but
Speaker 1: here's the here's the beauty part of it. So now
Speaker 1: with my name as encrypted, here is is n f Y,
Speaker 1: righte n f Y. So I go back and I
Speaker 1: do my name, do my name, and I go to
Speaker 1: the first line, and I go over to the N,
Speaker 1: and then I go to the and then that's not
Speaker 1: the first line, but the first line. The top line
Speaker 1: is to the decryption line, so would actually be the
Speaker 1: second line, but it's the first keyed line. So and
Speaker 1: I have a confused yet, you bet I have that.
Speaker 1: I go over to the N and then I go
Speaker 1: up to the top line and there's a J. Then
Speaker 1: I go down for the second letter. I go down
Speaker 1: to the second line down here, and I go to
Speaker 1: the F and I go up to the top line.
Speaker 1: Who says oh? And then I go down to the
Speaker 1: third line and I go over to why and go
Speaker 1: up to the first line, and there it is an E.
Speaker 1: And so I know my message says Joe. So that's how.
Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't know why he bothers to
Speaker 1: put things in code to us when he writes emails,
Speaker 1: because I know that if I spend the time to
Speaker 1: decode it, it just says Joe is awesome, over and
Speaker 1: over and over. That's all different kinds of ciphers. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so that's how the first the first that ciphers, the
Speaker 1: first cipher that and there were how how do we
Speaker 1: know that? How do we know that that's what it is?
Speaker 1: Actually because people some people broke the cipher the first one. Yeah,
Speaker 1: they did. And I said there were two there were two, Um,
Speaker 1: there were two messages and so two different ciphers. I
Speaker 1: mean they were both visionaire ciphers but with different keys,
Speaker 1: and so that whole part of it. And then uh,
Speaker 1: and then it gets a little trickier when you get
Speaker 1: to as the second rectangled down the lower left and
Speaker 1: but the top part of the message as two matches,
Speaker 1: And I said, the first one that says between subtletiating
Speaker 1: and the absence of light led us a nuance of inclusion.
Speaker 1: And there were intentional, apparently misspellings in the text. So
Speaker 1: if I questioned how intentional that agrees, it's always it's
Speaker 1: always entirely based on things that we discovered later on.
Speaker 1: I think in the third one, or maybe it's the
Speaker 1: second one, but I really feel like maybe that wasn't intentional. Well,
Speaker 1: there was there was at least one intentional boob or
Speaker 1: unintentional boo boo that was in there that caused the
Speaker 1: second part of the text to be misinterpreted, which is
Speaker 1: why I questioned his statement of all I did that
Speaker 1: on purpose. Yeah, I know you would hope that you
Speaker 1: wouldn't have typos and something that a very expensive thing carving,
Speaker 1: so you would hope you wouldn't screw up. I think
Speaker 1: it's possibly did. He said that he intentionally misspelled a
Speaker 1: couple of words, and also that he left a letter
Speaker 1: or two. See, uh, this is too soon to talk
Speaker 1: about this yea, let's keep talking about the cipher. Yeah, okay,
Speaker 1: Well the second one, which the key for that one was,
Speaker 1: by the way, abscissa, which is one of those obscure
Speaker 1: little words, the first element of an ordered pair, now,
Speaker 1: you know, like for example, palamp sess. The palap cessed
Speaker 1: is supposedly hinted at by the shape of the of
Speaker 1: the sculpture itself. It's shaped like a scroll. And a
Speaker 1: palap cessed is that which has been recorded over or
Speaker 1: written over. And so the earliest scrolls, because writing materials
Speaker 1: were kind of scarce back in the day, often the
Speaker 1: scroll that was no longer used for much of anything
Speaker 1: would be scraped off without the characters would be scraped
Speaker 1: off of it, and then people could write over it again.
Speaker 1: And that's what a palamp cessed is. So, so the
Speaker 1: palap cessed, you know, in its earliest form, was a scroll.
Speaker 1: And so apparently so that's the whole thing is like, well,
Speaker 1: don't you see the hint there, the big hint, you know,
Speaker 1: it's a scroll. Therefore palap cessed. You know, for me,
Speaker 1: it was like yeah, right, I mean I can see
Speaker 1: it now in retrospective course, But how somebody was expected
Speaker 1: to guess set you know before decoding it? Well, you know,
Speaker 1: for Christ's sakes, give me a break. Yeah. Yeah, there's
Speaker 1: a lot of a lot of little hints like this
Speaker 1: at least and supposedly people say that the word epsissa
Speaker 1: the second key was hinted at in the first message. Well,
Speaker 1: I'm not seeing that, and I've read that. He go
Speaker 1: to the first message and I'm not seeing it in there.
Speaker 1: But whatever, I mean. These people must be a lot
Speaker 1: smarter than me. I guess let's look at this second message.
Speaker 1: Here's what it is. Uh says it was totally invisible.
Speaker 1: How is that possible? They use the Earth's magnetic field.
Speaker 1: The information was gathered and transmitted underground, underground misspelled to
Speaker 1: an unload the land on location. Does Langley know about this?
Speaker 1: They should, It's buried out there somewhere. Who knows the
Speaker 1: exact location only WW. By the way, this w W
Speaker 1: is William Webster. He was at the time director of
Speaker 1: the CIA at the time. This was his last message,
Speaker 1: and hear the message gives some coordinates. Uh. What's turned
Speaker 1: out to map to a spot about a hundred and
Speaker 1: fifty feet southeast of the sculpture. And then then it's
Speaker 1: followed at that point by two more words, which are
Speaker 1: layer two and nobody knows what the significance of layer
Speaker 1: two is yet maybe it'll all become clear someday. And
Speaker 1: so yeah, it's it's unfortunately we need decode the messages.
Speaker 1: They're they're really they're really not all that helpful. A
Speaker 1: little leg yeah, a little yeah. Uh. And then we
Speaker 1: go to the lower rectangle and there's uh, I think
Speaker 1: eight hundred sixty six characters. No, and they're something like that. No,
Speaker 1: actually eight hundred sixty six is the entire left hand sculpture,
Speaker 1: so about half of that, about four thirty three right
Speaker 1: in there. Yeah, these, at least the first part, about
Speaker 1: the first maybe three quarters of them was encrypted with
Speaker 1: a totally different system. It was something called Calindar transposition.
Speaker 1: This is mind boggling, Yeah, especially how somebody could figure
Speaker 1: it out and decrypt it. Well, yeah, it really is.
Speaker 1: It took me a little while to actually understand this,
Speaker 1: and I actually it was eventually able to figure it out.
Speaker 1: But it's tricky, and so imagine this. So if you
Speaker 1: if you want to ENCRYPTO message, you take your text,
Speaker 1: take all the punch of interests and spaces out, put
Speaker 1: it in a word documents, so it's at least three
Speaker 1: or four lines, and you want to use a font
Speaker 1: like Courier exactly nothing that with proportional spacing, you want
Speaker 1: every character to occupy the same amount of space, right, uh.
Speaker 1: And then you print it onto a sheet of paper,
Speaker 1: and then you cut the text. You cut the text
Speaker 1: out into columns, so you've got like say four lines.
Speaker 1: So you've got all these little snip sets of paper
Speaker 1: that have four vertical letters on them, right, and all
Speaker 1: of the columns are the same with yeah, four four
Speaker 1: letters wide. No, no, there are one letter wide, one
Speaker 1: letter wide, and four letters high. Oh okay, I thought
Speaker 1: it was into group. The columns were grouped, Okay, got it? Yeah,
Speaker 1: And you don't that. So you cut out a single
Speaker 1: all these columns. And then, in this particular case, what
Speaker 1: you do is you step through backwards. In this particular case,
Speaker 1: they chose to have a six character lines. They step
Speaker 1: through backwards seven characters at a time. So starting at
Speaker 1: the beginning with the first character, they stepped backwards seven,
Speaker 1: which took them to uh, which took them to column
Speaker 1: eighty one and then and then so you pulled out
Speaker 1: pull that snippet of paper out and set it next
Speaker 1: to the first one, and then go back seven more,
Speaker 1: which is column seventy four. You pull that one out,
Speaker 1: set it next to the first one, and just keep
Speaker 1: doing that over and keep going around and round and
Speaker 1: round through the message until you but essentially rearranged all
Speaker 1: the columns in this pattern. Right, then take all your
Speaker 1: little snippets of paper and rotate them ninety degrees clockwise
Speaker 1: and glue them all together in the end. And then
Speaker 1: at the end of all that, then cut it somewhere
Speaker 1: in the middle. And in this particular case, this text
Speaker 1: actually ended with a question mark, and when it was
Speaker 1: done rearranging everything, the question mark was about halfway through
Speaker 1: a little more than halfway, so that's where they cut it.
Speaker 1: So this question mark wound up at the end of
Speaker 1: the encrypted text. Again. Uh so they cut it right
Speaker 1: after the question mark, and they swap the front and
Speaker 1: the back house and there you have it. That's your
Speaker 1: that's your encrypted texts. So I see the look on
Speaker 1: Devon's face. Simpler terms, you take a can of alphabet soup,
Speaker 1: you pour it on the ground, and you read it.
Speaker 1: That's that's that's about it out. Yeah, yeah, So the
Speaker 1: contrast between the two systems is in the first half,
Speaker 1: the letters are all in the right place, but they
Speaker 1: don't mean the same thing. It's the wrong letter, right,
Speaker 1: you gotta and whereas in this case none of the
Speaker 1: letters have actually been encrypted, they've just been rearranged and
Speaker 1: so and so the letters are all in clear text.
Speaker 1: But good luck figuring it out technically. And yeah, technically,
Speaker 1: well can I I This might be a dumb question,
Speaker 1: but here we are. Who made these cliphers? Did the
Speaker 1: artists make the clipher? No? Actually, he got, he got.
Speaker 1: There was a guy who's the chief of the cryptography
Speaker 1: department at the at the time. He made them. Yeah, well,
Speaker 1: essentially he and the artist sat down. I think that
Speaker 1: Jim sandboord to create these riddles because and then and
Speaker 1: then encrypt them, and so there was a collaborative project
Speaker 1: between the two of them, is how do we how
Speaker 1: do we encrypt these things? I was thinking, this is
Speaker 1: a kind of big undertaking for somebody who's an artist.
Speaker 1: I mean, not that artists can be smart, but yeah, well,
Speaker 1: you know, you never know. Sometimes people have hobbies to
Speaker 1: There are people out there who do one thing and
Speaker 1: cryptography as their hobby. So you know, but but he
Speaker 1: had a little help with this. Um. So what did
Speaker 1: that that cipher end up being did? Was it broken? Yeah?
Speaker 1: This one was broken? Um. And and again this is
Speaker 1: up to characters number up characters seven out of a
Speaker 1: sixty six. So, and this is what's called K one
Speaker 1: two K three. So the first two messages are in
Speaker 1: the top left rectangle, and then about three quarters at
Speaker 1: the bottom left are K three. That's and then below
Speaker 1: that is what's called K four. That's what hasn't been
Speaker 1: broken yet. Okay, but what did K three say? Yeah,
Speaker 1: this last one, and nobody knows why quite yet, But
Speaker 1: it was taken from the diary of Howard Carter, who
Speaker 1: is an archaeologist who opened King Tut's tomb in and
Speaker 1: so he had this thing where he described, you know,
Speaker 1: the opening of the tomb. So here it is as
Speaker 1: deciphered by various people slowly, desperately, slowly, the remains of
Speaker 1: passage debris that encumbered the lower part of the doorway
Speaker 1: he was removed with trembling hands. I made a tiny
Speaker 1: breech in the upper left hand corner, and then widening
Speaker 1: the whole little inserted the candle and peered in the
Speaker 1: hot air escaping from the chamber cousts the flame to flickr,
Speaker 1: but presently details of the room within emerged from the
Speaker 1: midst X can you see anything? Q, question mark, some
Speaker 1: little random characters thrown in there for some strange reason.
Speaker 1: Well he doesn't he You will see in the translations
Speaker 1: of this text in random places there are x is
Speaker 1: in the text, and those appeared to be used as periods. Uh,
Speaker 1: sort of they sort of breaks the sort of mark
Speaker 1: breaks between sentences, but they're not consistently used. You're right,
Speaker 1: And I was wondering what the heck was going on
Speaker 1: with that one. Yeah, well a lot of people have
Speaker 1: wondered about that too. I mean, I mean again, as
Speaker 1: we rely on Sandborn to tell us the truth. And
Speaker 1: you know, if he if, like you said, he's screwed
Speaker 1: up and he doesn't want to admit it, well, you know,
Speaker 1: hopefully he'd be truthful enough and honest enough, because he
Speaker 1: actually did make one air that he's admitted to, and
Speaker 1: he claims the rest were deliberate. I guess part of
Speaker 1: me thinks that maybe he doesn't actually know, if he's
Speaker 1: not the one who actually I mean, you know, he
Speaker 1: worked in conjunction with somebody to create the cipher, but
Speaker 1: he did. It's totally possible that that person was like,
Speaker 1: all right, this says what you wanted it to say,
Speaker 1: and he doesn't know. Well, yeah, I think what happened
Speaker 1: is he was required Sandber was required to actually give
Speaker 1: them the contents of the messages along with the encryption
Speaker 1: techniques that he use. So I think what happened is
Speaker 1: he got trained up. They picked out a few really
Speaker 1: good cipher techniques, and then he got trained up in it,
Speaker 1: and then he up to the messages himself, and then
Speaker 1: he had to handles over the CIA because essentially what
Speaker 1: they wanted to do is they wanted to know that
Speaker 1: he wasn't putting something in there, kind of like you knows,
Speaker 1: a bunch of jerks. Yeah, yeah, you know, I mean,
Speaker 1: and so you know, they wanted to know what the
Speaker 1: contents were so they wouldn't be embarrassed like he did.
Speaker 1: He did all of this as far as I know,
Speaker 1: He did the encryption himself. So um, And so what
Speaker 1: I'm wondering what other people have wanted this too, is
Speaker 1: that given these strange little glitches, weird the weird things
Speaker 1: with the X is moving characters around and stuff. If
Speaker 1: perhaps there isn't another cipher within that. So I was
Speaker 1: going to say, yeah, the cycerd message might itself contain
Speaker 1: some other cipher and ciphered message. And I presume that people,
Speaker 1: since you know, Kate four isn't solved yet, I presume
Speaker 1: that people have tried to get some kind of cipher
Speaker 1: code from the other three that decode the fourth. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that hasn't worked, obviously because obviously no. Supposedly there are
Speaker 1: hints to the to the solution of K four in
Speaker 1: the previous three, but these as said, what exactly these
Speaker 1: hints are. The problem, if I understand correctly, with K
Speaker 1: four is that it is so short. Yeah, exactly. One
Speaker 1: of the problems. Well, so, I mean K four is
Speaker 1: what it's character. It's less than a hundred characters long,
Speaker 1: which the longer a cipher is, the more clues you
Speaker 1: can gather by. Because when it's such a short thing
Speaker 1: without the key, you're pretty host Yeah, you kind of are.
Speaker 1: It does lend yourself a little bit better tonight. What
Speaker 1: they call brute force attacks, you know, but where you
Speaker 1: just basically you throw everything at it. And and if
Speaker 1: you and this this only really works well if you
Speaker 1: have a computer to do it with do it by yourself,
Speaker 1: you'll go insane. But the computer or the computer you
Speaker 1: can you can actually do a brute force attack pretty easily,
Speaker 1: which people have now done. Oh yeah, share as computers
Speaker 1: get faster, you know, our brute force attacks get faster.
Speaker 1: Watson has a taking this on yet, or that's a
Speaker 1: good question. Why not? It just does seem like a
Speaker 1: good jeoper an AI doesn't. Yeah, because it's the rise
Speaker 1: of the machines. They don't want him to know the answer.
Speaker 1: Good point. Yeah, we don't want him to know how
Speaker 1: to like code stuff and you do stuff in secret,
Speaker 1: and I'm sure Watson doesn't know how to do that already. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he hasn't figured that out. Definitely not dumb. Yeah, geez,
Speaker 1: I sure hope you know with all the AIS that
Speaker 1: weird that we're creating, I sure if they've just got
Speaker 1: some guys standing switch. Yeah, no, not. You don't want
Speaker 1: to kill switch. You just want to power. You want
Speaker 1: to like an outlet in the wall, and you want
Speaker 1: to want together just jerk the corse, that's what I mean,
Speaker 1: just like flip the fuse. Yeah, exactly. Supercomputers, ultra intelligent
Speaker 1: artificial intelligence runs the entire world plugged into a hundred
Speaker 1: and ten volt plug in the Yeah, some dude could
Speaker 1: accidentally trip over it and just destroy the infrastructure. Would
Speaker 1: that be hilarious? Yeah, it sounds like that's what's going
Speaker 1: to happen. Okay, So k Ford totally totally it is unsolved. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Let me go back for a second to the solution
Speaker 1: of the first three. Yeah, the first the first three
Speaker 1: were cracked in ninety nine by computer scientists named Jim
Speaker 1: Jim Galogley who used a computer. He was a California
Speaker 1: computer scientists I know. And uh, but then the CIA
Speaker 1: reigned all over his parade by announcing that one of
Speaker 1: their employees had solved the first three pieces in nine
Speaker 1: the year before. His name was Dave Stein. And also
Speaker 1: they made they they made clear that even though they
Speaker 1: had employees that have been working on this, they weren't
Speaker 1: using company times. They just did it on their own time.
Speaker 1: So he said, he just did it over like the
Speaker 1: course of about four hundred lunch hours working on this sculpture.
Speaker 1: And uh, and then the the n s A and
Speaker 1: I was is that, Hey, you know, three of their
Speaker 1: guys had like totally solved the whole first three messages
Speaker 1: in nineteen that's what they said. Yeah, yeah, that was like, oh,
Speaker 1: by the way, actually I solved it in eight Yeah
Speaker 1: I did too. Now I saw it in nineteen nine,
Speaker 1: the day after they put it up. Well, and the
Speaker 1: funny thing is is that if you read some of
Speaker 1: the stuff from the CIA and the n s A,
Speaker 1: they're they're really kind of poking at Jim Glogly. Is
Speaker 1: that how you say it? Because oh, well, we did
Speaker 1: it all by hand, and you just don't get the
Speaker 1: same joy and blah blah blah. It was really funny
Speaker 1: the writing that just took a total dig this guy
Speaker 1: using a computer to do it. I think the computer
Speaker 1: is a smart way to go myself. You know, it
Speaker 1: didn't take four lunch hours, no, exactly. The thing about
Speaker 1: doing it by hand is cryptography. There's a lot of
Speaker 1: bean counting going on, you know, all that all that
Speaker 1: stuff that just wrote stuff like say, if you're just
Speaker 1: doing a Caesar cipher, the simplest thing possible and you
Speaker 1: just have to add say three to every alpha letter
Speaker 1: in your in your clear text to encrypt it, well
Speaker 1: you gotta go hump, don don't, don't, don't through the
Speaker 1: entire message and isn't it better for that kind of
Speaker 1: grunt work to have a computer do that? That's mindless.
Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, there's a lot of that in cryptography
Speaker 1: in both directions and so and so I'm not unless
Speaker 1: you have a little Annie, a little orphan Annie decryptor
Speaker 1: ring or yeah help ye I had a Johnny quest
Speaker 1: and decrypton was it Johnny Quest or g I Joe
Speaker 1: or I don't remember what it was. But I had
Speaker 1: a pretty cool decoder room when I was a kid.
Speaker 1: Yeah it was handy. Yeah, yeah, just remember to drink
Speaker 1: your oval team. Yeah. I don't know where I got
Speaker 1: that cracker jack box or what, but yeah, that's cool stuff.
Speaker 1: I'm sure it's illegal now because you know, if if
Speaker 1: any kid had that today, he would immediately shove it
Speaker 1: down a stroke and choke on. Yeah. We were different,
Speaker 1: We were different breed of kids in my day. You know,
Speaker 1: we didn't choke on stuff because everything it's I mean,
Speaker 1: it's hard when like they're dinosaurs threatening your life, you
Speaker 1: tend to not like shove things in your mouth. YEA,
Speaker 1: thank you? Okay, So yeah, okay, So SO and N
Speaker 1: s A kept their discoveries secret. Maybe they didn't want
Speaker 1: to like let people know how just how smart they
Speaker 1: are and how brilliant they are decrypting or you know,
Speaker 1: it could actually be that, and it does seem to
Speaker 1: be documented. They actually in fourteen that the n s
Speaker 1: A did declassify some documents because apparently their employees, there
Speaker 1: were three of them, wrote up reports on how they
Speaker 1: did the whole thing, and uh, but they were classified
Speaker 1: up until and uh but now they're available online so
Speaker 1: you can read it. So apparently it is documented that
Speaker 1: their employees did indeed break those first three ciphers. But
Speaker 1: why were they classified? Yeah? Why do they keep it?
Speaker 1: Because they work for a certain certain organization where almost
Speaker 1: everything is classified. There is a tendency to over classify things.
Speaker 1: And it might have been just share sportsmanship. They might
Speaker 1: have just felt like, you know, hey, you know, we're
Speaker 1: going to rain out a lot of people's parades if
Speaker 1: we say, hey, we cracked it. Here it is, you know, Yeah,
Speaker 1: that doesn't stop them before, especially as weird as this
Speaker 1: one is, there's more cracking to be done. It is
Speaker 1: a weird one. I mean, yeah, you think they could
Speaker 1: have said something like, hey, we cracked it, but we're
Speaker 1: not gonna We're still not gonna tell you what it is.
Speaker 1: You're gonna have to figure that out yourself, bitches. But
Speaker 1: all right, so we're gonna start with there. We're gonna
Speaker 1: talk about our first little mystery here. But first let's
Speaker 1: take a break, because I think I see a man
Speaker 1: in dark sunglasses and a suit at the door. The
Speaker 1: town of Beaumont had a problem. The city council had
Speaker 1: barred dancing and rock and roll. You couldn't do it.
Speaker 1: It just wasn't allowed. Supposedly, the rules put in place
Speaker 1: after the Reverend Sun died in a car accident on
Speaker 1: the way home from a dance. But that wasn't the
Speaker 1: real reason. The real reason was that the Reverend was
Speaker 1: wearing conventional socks that didn't fit right and gave him blisters,
Speaker 1: and dancing only made it worse, and he didn't want
Speaker 1: to be the only one not dancing. Being the pillar
Speaker 1: of the community, he decided that it had to be
Speaker 1: that way for everyone, so the band was put in place. Luckily,
Speaker 1: a spirited teenager named Wren McCormick came to town and
Speaker 1: showed everyone in the error of their ways. Socks a
Speaker 1: vital article of clothing that often gets overlooked Thankfully, four
Speaker 1: years ago, two guys set out to rethink it. Neither
Speaker 1: of them was written, and after spending two years fixing
Speaker 1: all the things they didn't like about conventional socks, Bombas
Speaker 1: was born. Bombas offers premium socks equipped with seven substantial
Speaker 1: improvements to the ordinary sock, which you can find online.
Speaker 1: In fact, Bomba socks are such game changers that customers
Speaker 1: overwhelmingly claimed that they are the most comfortable socks they've
Speaker 1: ever worn. But best of all, every pair of socks
Speaker 1: Bomba cells, they donate a pair to those in need.
Speaker 1: They've already donated over two million pairs so far. Go
Speaker 1: to Bombas dot com slash sideways to get off your
Speaker 1: first order. You'll love Bombas socks or your money back guaranteed.
Speaker 1: That's Bombas dot com slash sideways. Now that I think
Speaker 1: about it, maybe Randy Goldberg and David Heath are like
Speaker 1: Brand McCormick. They did buck the sock system and we're back.
Speaker 1: That guy was just h Yeah, that's that's dangerous. I
Speaker 1: got a good serial killer story for you guys. About
Speaker 1: that one for another time. Time. Yeah, mystery number one,
Speaker 1: let's talk about our first mystery, which what is exactly
Speaker 1: the true purpose of cryptos. Was it just art or
Speaker 1: is it something else? Do you do? You know, I
Speaker 1: sort of wondered if maybe it's not kind of a
Speaker 1: recruiting device to try to, like, you know, find some
Speaker 1: really talented cryptographers to hire. Yes, no, I mean I
Speaker 1: I don't. There's not a question in my mind that
Speaker 1: this is similar to you know, the idea behind the
Speaker 1: Cicada three three oh one, where it's like, obviously a
Speaker 1: lot of these puzzles get put out there simply because
Speaker 1: they're recruiting tools, you know, and obviously back in the forties. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean, Google does the same thing. They hire people
Speaker 1: who hack into their system. They say, if you can
Speaker 1: get into our system, we will hire you. I know,
Speaker 1: when I heard about that, I got my car and
Speaker 1: drove through the front wall, and that doesn't count. You
Speaker 1: were like, well, it's all right, I had an accident
Speaker 1: into But I mean there's for me, there's no question.
Speaker 1: But I know I'm more prone to believe stuff like
Speaker 1: that than you guys are. So yeah, well, you know,
Speaker 1: and think about it is it's actually a kind of
Speaker 1: a nice looking piece of sculpture too, so it could
Speaker 1: be a dual purpose. Kind of thing, you know, purposes
Speaker 1: pretty nicely, not that any old smoke can just wander
Speaker 1: up to it, but well that is the thing. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it is on CIA grounds, so you it's not not
Speaker 1: everybody gets to look at but there's lots of pictures
Speaker 1: of information about it. There's just tons of information out there,
Speaker 1: and we'll have some good links for you all. By
Speaker 1: the way, there's one person that at Lanka Done and
Speaker 1: who's who's like, you know, considered one of the foremost
Speaker 1: experts on the whole thing, and she has a page
Speaker 1: which will give you a link to that has in itself,
Speaker 1: I don't know what a hundred two hundred links and
Speaker 1: articles and and and all kinds of stuff, and so yeah,
Speaker 1: pretty much almost everything you need to know about cryptos
Speaker 1: you'll find in her page. Well, anyway, let's go back
Speaker 1: to our story for just a little bit. As you know,
Speaker 1: nobody is yet deciphered k for so if the last
Speaker 1: time it was deciphered and seen, that's all almost twenty
Speaker 1: years and people are still hammering their head and brains
Speaker 1: out over that one. Yeah, and I said earlier, because
Speaker 1: it's so short. That's one of the things that's made
Speaker 1: it kind of tough to break, although it turns out,
Speaker 1: you know, K one was actually kind of short too,
Speaker 1: and people managed to break that. And it turns out
Speaker 1: there it's actually shorter than ninety seven letters because in
Speaker 1: tween Jim sim would reveal that actually that last characters
Speaker 1: is two messages, not just one, and they're encrypted with
Speaker 1: different systems, making it even harder. Yeah, he does make
Speaker 1: it harder. And he also said that you need to
Speaker 1: solve K four in order to solve K five. So
Speaker 1: and in uh it again, it have been eleven years
Speaker 1: since the last time there had been any progress in this,
Speaker 1: so he decided it was time to dropping officially. Yeah, officially, Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's a good point. Uh And so he said, the
Speaker 1: six characters in K four translate to the word Berlin
Speaker 1: as in as in the city in Germany. The characters
Speaker 1: are the sixty four through sixty nine. The letters are N, Y,
Speaker 1: P V T T. Write that down. And again I remember,
Speaker 1: of course, at this time in ten, nobody with sandboard
Speaker 1: knew that there was actually two messages in there. So
Speaker 1: my question, of course when I first heard that as well,
Speaker 1: is Berlin in K four or is Berlin in K five? I? Oh,
Speaker 1: I guess there is. I just have a hard time.
Speaker 1: I'm so green with ciphers, I like, don't I don't
Speaker 1: understand cipher's like at all. So for me, it's so
Speaker 1: hard to imagine a cipher where Berlin would translate to
Speaker 1: something that has two t s at the end of it.
Speaker 1: You know, yeah, I pause, that's really hard for me.
Speaker 1: But also, you know, knowing that there's this other kind
Speaker 1: of cipher where actually all of the letters are crack,
Speaker 1: you know, like it's but yeah, I mean, obviously, you know,
Speaker 1: obviously it's not a substitution cipher, right, and it's not.
Speaker 1: It's not a substitution cipher. Can't be right, obviously it
Speaker 1: can Obviously it can't be simple, it can't be a
Speaker 1: Caesar shift. Obviously the colindar transposition technique is not being
Speaker 1: used here because all six letters are side by side,
Speaker 1: they're not and I scattered all throughout the text. So
Speaker 1: it could be uh as we're back to the old
Speaker 1: vision air cipher. Maybe I don't know, but presumably a
Speaker 1: lot of people have already tried to decrypt it using
Speaker 1: the vision are cipher. Yeah, if you know that it's
Speaker 1: used once, you might as well give it a shot
Speaker 1: and see if you use more than once. Uh, yeah,
Speaker 1: I suppose. I mean, but if they, if they, if
Speaker 1: they've gone back to the vision are cipher, it appears
Speaker 1: that they probably took out the keyword crypto, so they're
Speaker 1: probably using a different there's probably two different keys this time.
Speaker 1: It was not yeah, so uh and that's about all
Speaker 1: we know about it so far. There were only twenty
Speaker 1: three characters after after the word burl, after the word Berlin. Well,
Speaker 1: and that's not actually true. That's twenty eight. But in
Speaker 1: in nine Jim sand Words said that because still nobody
Speaker 1: had broken any broken the cipher. He said, Okay, the
Speaker 1: word after berlin clock so brilliant clock. And so those
Speaker 1: words that word would be spelled mz F p K
Speaker 1: spell clock exactly. So after clock there are only twenty
Speaker 1: three characters after that. I'm assuming that brilliant clock is
Speaker 1: in K four and not K five. Makes sense if
Speaker 1: you have to have K four to fix yeah, otherwise
Speaker 1: otherwise Sandberg Sandborn is a real jerk j J. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I guess I just keep thinking characters. That's a small
Speaker 1: enough set that you could have if you have two
Speaker 1: different encryption and you're really smart about it, right, it
Speaker 1: could literally be the same letters with two different encryption codes,
Speaker 1: with two separate messages that are all ninety seven letters.
Speaker 1: I think that's possible. It's not easy, it would be
Speaker 1: really tricky, but I'm saying that it could just be
Speaker 1: two different cipher sets, right, And that would also for me.
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, this may be like jumping ahead a little bit,
Speaker 1: but for me, when I look at all of the
Speaker 1: errors that are included in all of the other ones,
Speaker 1: that's kind of what it looks like to me is
Speaker 1: that the shift would be different, and so a different
Speaker 1: message with different sets of errors would appear in like
Speaker 1: K one for instance. Right, that like, if there were
Speaker 1: a separate message included in there, those xs would go
Speaker 1: away and suddenly they become a's and it's a totally
Speaker 1: different set of you know whatever. Um. And So I
Speaker 1: guess for me, I don't think it's likely that that
Speaker 1: is the case, but it's a possibility that I come
Speaker 1: I keep coming back to. It would the genius level
Speaker 1: encryption to me, So you're saying essentially that, but there
Speaker 1: are a lot of errors in this. So he could
Speaker 1: have done it wrong. He could have thought he did
Speaker 1: it perfectly great and it turned out no, they're both
Speaker 1: incipher decipherable. Now yeah, but yeah, I mean, but but
Speaker 1: I saw if when I from reading it correctly, you're
Speaker 1: saying essentially the same the same piece, the same message
Speaker 1: can be two entirely different things. I'm saying that the
Speaker 1: same set of letters, given two different encryption code could
Speaker 1: be two separate, could be two different things. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: that's some time, and that would explain a lot of things,
Speaker 1: like you say that the stray weird characters and the
Speaker 1: spellings and stuff where they had to sort of shoot
Speaker 1: horn these things together. And so that's entirely possible. A
Speaker 1: lot of people have pondered that exact question. That's just
Speaker 1: that's just a little too fiendish. On the other hand,
Speaker 1: so well, yeah, I'll stand okay. So oh yeah, we're
Speaker 1: at Berlin clock. Okay, and uh, and again we've got
Speaker 1: two messages. Presumably there's at least twenty three characters in
Speaker 1: K five And by the way, brilliant clock. Do google
Speaker 1: on that. And if you haven't heard of it as
Speaker 1: a famous clock, it's kind of cool. Uh. It's one
Speaker 1: of those clocks that you know, you have to sit
Speaker 1: down and figure out how to use it and how
Speaker 1: to tell time by it, and then you never use
Speaker 1: it again because it's a painting. But you've got to
Speaker 1: kind of do some math in order to tell what
Speaker 1: the time is, because can you give me like a
Speaker 1: high level colored shapes so that I think it's a
Speaker 1: there's a red circle, then there's a bar below that
Speaker 1: that is divided into three pieces, and each p slights
Speaker 1: up in yellow. It's basically this weird semi binary clock. Yeah, um,
Speaker 1: it's I mean, you would have to be really really
Speaker 1: versed in that kind of stuff and use it all
Speaker 1: the time in order to understand that the combination of
Speaker 1: lights this means six thirty, but this means sixty two. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's yeah, it is. And so so it's like they're
Speaker 1: I think there's like three red ones up near the top,
Speaker 1: three red rectangles, and those denote fifteen minutes each. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and then so so if like three of them are
Speaker 1: lit up, its four four at the top. And then
Speaker 1: so those are four increments of like fifteen minutes stations.
Speaker 1: So if those those little guys three of them lit
Speaker 1: up there, it's okay forty five minutes after the hour.
Speaker 1: And then you go down further to find out what
Speaker 1: the hour is and stuff, and you gotta be super complex.
Speaker 1: It's a little you know, it's not concepolutely difficult, but
Speaker 1: it's kind of a kind of a nuisance if you
Speaker 1: want to know what the time is real fast. But
Speaker 1: you know, people dig that stuff. I mean, you watches
Speaker 1: like that all the time. There's i mean the binary watches.
Speaker 1: We already said binder, but there's a couple of different ones.
Speaker 1: I don't know if you never saw this, Devan, but Joe,
Speaker 1: I don't know, you remember that that watch that I
Speaker 1: had that had the hollows center in the light like
Speaker 1: that thing was cool, but a giant painted the buck
Speaker 1: to use again. It's just kind of a cool factor
Speaker 1: kind of thing. Absolutely, Okay. I want to advent a
Speaker 1: time piece that's just whenever you want to know the time,
Speaker 1: you know, you press a button and it just drops
Speaker 1: out gold bars and a certain you know, at a
Speaker 1: certain number of gold bars for the hour, and then
Speaker 1: then yeah, it wouldn't it be nice? Yeah? I think
Speaker 1: you're gonna have to go into alchemy for that, yeah, probably. Yeah,
Speaker 1: So one gold bar for each hour and then a
Speaker 1: bunch of career answer for the minutes that work. Okay,
Speaker 1: like that. Yeah, So the big question is is will
Speaker 1: K four and K five b the code? And well,
Speaker 1: probably sooner or later they will, but it doesn't solve
Speaker 1: everything when and not quiet because sand Words said this
Speaker 1: in and I'm quoting him here, once the play is deciphered,
Speaker 1: I'm not convinced that true meaning will be clear even
Speaker 1: then there's another deeper mystery. Yeah, okay, so let's let's
Speaker 1: stop here because I know we're about to go into
Speaker 1: mystery number two. I have a so my my concern
Speaker 1: with this whole thing is when I mean, we talked
Speaker 1: about it before the mistakes and him saying they were intentional.
Speaker 1: You know, I work in a in an area where
Speaker 1: you take artistic license to things, and I have I
Speaker 1: worked with some people who will seriously manipulate things to
Speaker 1: make them look right. And the problem is that that
Speaker 1: then very dramatically changes them and changes their meeting, whether
Speaker 1: it be in text or imagery or illustrations or whatever.
Speaker 1: We're in this case a series of letters. Well that's
Speaker 1: kind of That's why I really worried that this thing
Speaker 1: is is completely screwed up, because he's he's quote unquote
Speaker 1: massage to the letters around and blown the whole thing apart. Honestly,
Speaker 1: I feel like him that quote from him of like,
Speaker 1: once it's deciphered, O Nacha is totally him just covering
Speaker 1: his But because he like realized ten years later he
Speaker 1: was like, oh crap, I totally mess that up. It's
Speaker 1: not going to mean anything. I, on the other hand,
Speaker 1: maybe not. I tend to think he probably probably did
Speaker 1: improof reading before he put the whole thing up, but
Speaker 1: he didn't because it was ten years later that he
Speaker 1: was rereading the plain text and they found that one
Speaker 1: era that dramatically changed it. Well, it didn't dramatically change,
Speaker 1: it changed two words at the end. Are we going
Speaker 1: to talk about that? Yeah. Originally at the end of
Speaker 1: the end of the second message, it said it looked
Speaker 1: like it said by by the by the code everything
Speaker 1: it desired. And this is just entirely coincidental, serendipitous. I
Speaker 1: guess it decrypted to a lot three words. I d
Speaker 1: by Rose. Yeah, so I d by Rose. But it
Speaker 1: turns out that what he had intended to do is
Speaker 1: he had he had intended to put another X in
Speaker 1: there as as a delimita to the previous sentence, and
Speaker 1: then had the two words layer to appear after that,
Speaker 1: and so when he left that out, he removed the
Speaker 1: X to make it look proportionate. Yeah, exactly. So when
Speaker 1: he left that out and it went from saying layer
Speaker 1: two to just saying I d by rows. And that's
Speaker 1: just a peer coincidence that it actually translated to something coherent,
Speaker 1: that's likely that it could have translated to something just gibberish.
Speaker 1: That's why that's why you're wondering if maybe the same
Speaker 1: message with two different keys could translate to different because
Speaker 1: it totally could totally explain there's no spaces, there's no
Speaker 1: nothing right, So it would explain some of the things
Speaker 1: like the x is and the misspellings. I know exactly,
Speaker 1: you know, I imagine imagine this. Imagine that you're reading
Speaker 1: left to right, uh, the line after line. What if
Speaker 1: it's you know, you're reading calumn well or I mean
Speaker 1: the other thing even is like maybe you're reading right
Speaker 1: to left because you can go all the way around
Speaker 1: these things, right, I mean they are intentionally punched all
Speaker 1: the way through. You can step around on the other
Speaker 1: side of it, and then it's a different methods should
Speaker 1: read it backward? Yeah, you read left to right from
Speaker 1: the other side and suddenly it's a you know, so
Speaker 1: I don't know. I think there's a lot of stuff
Speaker 1: here that. Yeah. One of the reasons I have wondered
Speaker 1: about the top to bottom think the columnar thing is
Speaker 1: that some of the words said, the misspellings and stuff,
Speaker 1: like the last word in the first message was illusion,
Speaker 1: but with the que instead of an L, so it's
Speaker 1: it's i q l U so inclusion. And I seriously
Speaker 1: wondered because he said he's left letters out to deliberately,
Speaker 1: and I wondered if actually the word he's the word
Speaker 1: he's actually misspelled, wasn't illusion after all? The inclusion occlusion.
Speaker 1: Inclusion is the word I'm thinking occlusion because it makes sense.
Speaker 1: I mean, he's talking about about shadow and darkness and
Speaker 1: all that stuff. So he says between subtlet shading and
Speaker 1: the absence of light less and nuance of exclusion illusion,
Speaker 1: But occlusions pits out a lot better when you think
Speaker 1: about it, because the inclusion is like, you know, you know,
Speaker 1: the the absence of light. Essentially, when you include thing,
Speaker 1: you know, you've blocked the light and you shade it
Speaker 1: and stuff. So to me, yeah, or that kind of
Speaker 1: thing to you. But inclusions, so I wanted a conclusion. So,
Speaker 1: in other words, he put a que in there because
Speaker 1: he needed to. He needed to. Otherwise he would have
Speaker 1: had to put two season there and oh a CNFC
Speaker 1: and so he needed to he needed to toss out
Speaker 1: one of those seas, and so he put the queue
Speaker 1: in there instead to do the same job. So I
Speaker 1: Q instead of see, which would explain you know, And
Speaker 1: again this is all tendentious. It's like, I am not
Speaker 1: actually going to spend a huge amount of time trying
Speaker 1: to crack this one because I've just got too much
Speaker 1: to do. I don't know a lot of people with
Speaker 1: bigger brains who have not managed to do with it
Speaker 1: than Yeah. Probably it's not worth the die. It's one
Speaker 1: of those delia. So I just thought, okay, I'll give it.
Speaker 1: I'll give it like half an hour, just because it
Speaker 1: would be so cool if all these people have been
Speaker 1: beating their brains out over it, and if I was
Speaker 1: able to sit down and just you know, crack it
Speaker 1: the text editor and figured it out. Yeah, you know,
Speaker 1: as anybody ever thought to, like, you know, put this
Speaker 1: into Microsoft word and then switch over to wing dings.
Speaker 1: I mean really though, Yeah, yeah, I'm going to try that. Actually,
Speaker 1: actually I'm not going to try that, or just do
Speaker 1: detect language on like Google Translate. Yeah, try that too, Yeah,
Speaker 1: try to let it, you know, see if there's another
Speaker 1: language in there, because Google is pretty good at like
Speaker 1: trying to decipher. Google's like your sober friend, you know,
Speaker 1: like you can type some like really messed up words
Speaker 1: in there and it's like, oh did you mean this,
Speaker 1: because it understands somehow. I gotta feel like if you,
Speaker 1: if you type this, Google probably knows this very well
Speaker 1: and they'd probably if you type it in there, Google
Speaker 1: say you're give us, say like nice tried, dude, Yeah
Speaker 1: we solve this twenty years ago. Yeah. Yeah, so you
Speaker 1: have it back to her, I think he uh so
Speaker 1: there's there Apparently according to him, there are riddles to
Speaker 1: be solved and that will that will leave you as
Speaker 1: you know, as I said, he made reference to something
Speaker 1: being hidden somewhere, probably in the grounds of the CIA
Speaker 1: and Langley. He actually gave he actually gave the level
Speaker 1: too whatever that means layer to actually layer too. That's
Speaker 1: another one right where it's like he's obviously telling us
Speaker 1: like there's another layer to this code and maybe it is,
Speaker 1: and maybe he's just playing this mind game right where
Speaker 1: every time somebody says, hey, is it this, he's like, no, like,
Speaker 1: I D Rose, I D by Rose. Like that could
Speaker 1: be I'm sure everybody, like I'm sure that people have
Speaker 1: experienced this or explored this already, right, but I D
Speaker 1: by Rose could be another part of the cipher that
Speaker 1: exposes the second layer. Yeah, I mean it could be right, Yeah,
Speaker 1: Rose could be the other work. Yeah. Yeah. By the way,
Speaker 1: there is that there is a discussion for him. For
Speaker 1: for these cryptos nerds out there, if you really want
Speaker 1: to get intensely involved in this, I will definitely put
Speaker 1: the link out there too. You have to act, think,
Speaker 1: send them an email and ask for membership. You know,
Speaker 1: they have to be admitted to the group and have
Speaker 1: to prove that you're not like a spot here or
Speaker 1: a Russian. Actually you probably get extra poement points for
Speaker 1: being a Russian. But the but but yeah, they's so,
Speaker 1: they've been discussing it. They still are as far as
Speaker 1: I know, So that mystery, okay. Yeah, And then of
Speaker 1: course you know there's there's other elements to the sculpture. Also,
Speaker 1: there's some pieces of marble that are that are setting.
Speaker 1: They're sort of set around it, and you don't know
Speaker 1: if those had significance or they're just they're flat paced
Speaker 1: places for people to sit down and eat their lunch.
Speaker 1: You don't really know. Did I read somewhere somebody thought
Speaker 1: that maybe they were brail or something from the well,
Speaker 1: there is a there's a Morse code there. Yeah, there's
Speaker 1: a there's actually in the whole thing. There's there's not
Speaker 1: just a sculpture, but there's other various rocks and things around,
Speaker 1: and there's a message in Morse code that's what conceivably
Speaker 1: be brail. You know, maybe the Morse totally wrong. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but it's more well, if it's Morrise code, though it
Speaker 1: doesn't really translate that well because there's a lot of
Speaker 1: dots in there, which translates to just ease. So maybe
Speaker 1: it's something else. I don't know the Yeah, that's what
Speaker 1: it is, but where did the where did that come from?
Speaker 1: Was that part of the same Yeah, but it doesn't
Speaker 1: make you wonder if maybe people are too fixated on
Speaker 1: the central piece and that image the other stuff. Oh yeah,
Speaker 1: there's aerial images available out there, and people have like
Speaker 1: you know, tried to like make any sense about it
Speaker 1: from out of it from there, and of course somebody
Speaker 1: has has actually marked the spot that's marked by those
Speaker 1: coordinates that are in K two. So you can find
Speaker 1: an aerial where that's marked. And is it on Langley property? Yeah,
Speaker 1: it is, it's actually yeah, it's actually quite Yeah. They
Speaker 1: have a they have a Brilliant Wall memorial there where
Speaker 1: they actually brought over several chunks of the Brilliant Wall
Speaker 1: after it got torn down and they stilly created a
Speaker 1: monument to that, and it's right about very close to that. Well,
Speaker 1: maybe there's some significance with Berlin. Uh yeah, well Berlin
Speaker 1: clock and all that stuff. And of course when it
Speaker 1: when this was commissioned and he was doing it, doing
Speaker 1: his work, it was committed and I think before the
Speaker 1: fall of the wall, but then I believe it was
Speaker 1: completed after the fall of the wall. So I could
Speaker 1: totally picture him going back with this momentous thing happening
Speaker 1: and inserting some reference to you know, obviously they're brilliant clock,
Speaker 1: but maybe something about the wall, you know, the fall
Speaker 1: of Communist been, Soviet Union and all that stuff. I mean,
Speaker 1: but we don't know. And uh, and so there's there's
Speaker 1: riddles he said, he's he's hinted that the solutions to
Speaker 1: the riddles will lead you essentially to another riddle, and
Speaker 1: that's the riddle apparently solved these last riddles. You have
Speaker 1: to actually have access to the CIA, you actually have
Speaker 1: to solve them on on the ground, and so good
Speaker 1: luck with that. Yeah, yeah, and so that's where it's at.
Speaker 1: And so any of our listeners out there, if you know,
Speaker 1: if you if you go out there and you saw this,
Speaker 1: then just tell them we said, you know, we'd appreciate that,
Speaker 1: and all of you with coke y. Yeah, so let's
Speaker 1: get into our mysteries here. These are more mysteries and theories,
Speaker 1: which yeah, we've been on mystery one for a good
Speaker 1: little bit here. Yeah, mystery too. Are the c in
Speaker 1: the n s A telling the truths? Which is to say,
Speaker 1: they say they haven't cracked Kate in four in k
Speaker 1: five yet that seems suspicious. It kind of does you
Speaker 1: know these guys just you know, actually it kind of
Speaker 1: kind of makes me mad because we're paying them a
Speaker 1: lot of money to be able to do this kind
Speaker 1: of crap and they can't and I kind of, uh, well,
Speaker 1: they have they literally do have the trick I mean,
Speaker 1: they may have other things that they consider higher priority
Speaker 1: than solving the installation. That sounds wrong. Yeah, I could be.
Speaker 1: I mean it really could be. But I I don't
Speaker 1: know you would think that with all those supercomputers and everything,
Speaker 1: and I know, I know they have said at least
Speaker 1: for public consumption, they have said that they're not debuilding
Speaker 1: any public resources to this at all. Yeah, people would
Speaker 1: freak out if they heard that, Well I would. I
Speaker 1: don't know. I don't know, man. I think if the
Speaker 1: N s A employees have a little bit have a
Speaker 1: spare minute or two be decrypting between decrypting ISIS communications
Speaker 1: and everything, if they've they've got a few minutes of
Speaker 1: downtime and they want to play with this on their supercomputers,
Speaker 1: I wouldn't. Yeah, you know, I don't see a problem.
Speaker 1: I don't have a problem with that, really, I mean whatever,
Speaker 1: you know, it's like it actually for them it would
Speaker 1: be kind of cool to have a nice little break
Speaker 1: from your day to day routine. They are to be
Speaker 1: able to do something a little different, keep the mind sharp.
Speaker 1: But yeah, I think they're probably lying. I kind of
Speaker 1: think that probably they've at least N s A has
Speaker 1: broken it. Well, they're supposed to. I mean, the the
Speaker 1: answer was given to the c I A. Yeah, so
Speaker 1: they you imagine that what's the head guy, William Webster,
Speaker 1: thank you. He probably put it in the safe and
Speaker 1: it's probably something that is transferred from director to director,
Speaker 1: so they know the Freagan answer. Yeah, they have to
Speaker 1: have the answer, So it's not as if they, well somebody, yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, somebody. I mean maybe those guys are
Speaker 1: such honorable fellows that they've actually left it sealed in
Speaker 1: the envelope in the safe for all these years and
Speaker 1: they haven't actually pulled it out and looked at it.
Speaker 1: But if I would watch, if I've watched X files enough,
Speaker 1: the answer to that, you know, it would be kind
Speaker 1: of tough to not pull that envelope out and have
Speaker 1: a look at it. And almost impossible. Yeah, it really
Speaker 1: kind of would be. Yeah, So how many more mysteries
Speaker 1: do we have? Here? Got a few more mystery? Number three?
Speaker 1: What are the encryption algorithms for K four K five?
Speaker 1: And we've already kind of talked about that, so I
Speaker 1: don't you know again I could Yeah, tough, I've already
Speaker 1: told you what it can't be. It's it's not rearrangement.
Speaker 1: It's not just a simple substitution cipher or seas shift
Speaker 1: or anything like that. But there's a lot of other
Speaker 1: ciphers out there. So anyway, why does it on here
Speaker 1: say pig Latin. Oh yeah, pig. I tried pig Latin.
Speaker 1: That doesn't work, and so no pig Latin. Our next messages,
Speaker 1: well and order the messages say well, hell if I know.
Speaker 1: I mean, I've seen the stuff that's been decrypted. I don't.
Speaker 1: I don't even know if don't totally understand that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: not really, No, I don't. I don't get it at all.
Speaker 1: But again, it's a this is gonna be kind of
Speaker 1: one of those Da Vinci Code kind of things where
Speaker 1: to the ordinary person, you know, it's ghibberation. But then
Speaker 1: you know, Tom Hanks comes along and said, well you
Speaker 1: have we said Tom Hanks to Langley. He would figure
Speaker 1: this out in like two days. Oh no, you figured
Speaker 1: out in like thirty Secon just glanced at it and
Speaker 1: be like, oh, but I always loved that in the
Speaker 1: Da Vinci Code. That's the only one of the series
Speaker 1: that I've read is and I haven't seen the movie,
Speaker 1: but I just love it. He goes into the lube
Speaker 1: and there's a dead body. But before he died, he
Speaker 1: arranged himself. So he's pointing towards this, this fading but
Speaker 1: this so obviously Tom Hanks is the guy to figure
Speaker 1: this one out. Yeah, I think so. Yeah. And by
Speaker 1: the way, and Dan Brown is apparently a fan of cryptos,
Speaker 1: I'm sure, yeah he is. And he actually mentions it
Speaker 1: apparently in the Da Vinci Code, and he wrote some
Speaker 1: other book that also mentions it quite heavily too. So
Speaker 1: Angels and Demons problem, it wasn't that one. I can't
Speaker 1: remember the name of it, but you know, but yeah,
Speaker 1: I just go out to Dan Brown dot com or
Speaker 1: something like that or I don't know, Google. Yeah, you'll
Speaker 1: find something about that. So our next. And here's the thing.
Speaker 1: I mean, obviously there's something hidden theoretic, I don't know
Speaker 1: if they're okay. Yeah, So if there is something hidden,
Speaker 1: well what is it? And I can see some different possibilities,
Speaker 1: one of which is treasure, you know, a little word
Speaker 1: or something kind of humorous, like maybe a secret decode
Speaker 1: or ring Hitler's body. Yeah yeah. Another may be another
Speaker 1: encrypted message. It's like, you know, so you get all
Speaker 1: the way down there, and there's got another message. So
Speaker 1: you got to figure out I mean it could be
Speaker 1: I mean why not. You know there there is talk
Speaker 1: about the because of the coordinates and the memorial for
Speaker 1: the Berlin Wall or the monument, there is talk that
Speaker 1: initially it was supposed to go in a place that
Speaker 1: lined up with those coordinates. This is supposition, of course,
Speaker 1: but that after he made Cryptos, they just they changed
Speaker 1: their mind and moved it to a different location and
Speaker 1: screwed the whole thing up. It's how it possible. You know,
Speaker 1: some peon said, oh, no, it's gonna go over here
Speaker 1: because the contractor will charge just more over there. I
Speaker 1: don't know why they didn't put it there, But I
Speaker 1: don't know why you would have a cipher that directed
Speaker 1: you to the exact coordinates that you're already standing at. No,
Speaker 1: it's this According to what I read, the coordinates were
Speaker 1: not exactly where Cryptos was, but it's near it, and
Speaker 1: that that near location, that's where the Berlin Wall remnants
Speaker 1: were supposed to be put. Because then that would give
Speaker 1: you the idea of oh wait, the word bill Berlin Wall.
Speaker 1: Oh look, I found the word Berlin and the tacks
Speaker 1: that must mean something like I don't know if that's
Speaker 1: real or not, but I've seen that out there. Yeah, no,
Speaker 1: there's there's other other suppositions or a series are that
Speaker 1: he actually screwed up and he actually was using the
Speaker 1: wrong map and that was off by a little bit,
Speaker 1: you know, and in his coordinates. So there's always that possibility.
Speaker 1: But then I I would say that the cordinates are
Speaker 1: the Berlin wal Wantument. What I would be doing is
Speaker 1: I would looking for I'd be looking for a little
Speaker 1: piece of foe all other ways. Go out there to
Speaker 1: the little monument and it's like find that, find the one,
Speaker 1: you know, the one piece of it that looks a
Speaker 1: little newer, and maybe the graffiti's in English instead of German,
Speaker 1: and yeah, okay, that's what it is. Pull it out
Speaker 1: of there and take a sledge to and see what's
Speaker 1: inside there. But they will so let that. Yeah. Well, also,
Speaker 1: you know the other thing is is that like maybe
Speaker 1: the treasure is employment at the CIA. It could be
Speaker 1: it could be as an employment application. Yeah, and it
Speaker 1: could and it really could be. You know to me
Speaker 1: that um, you know, K four and five have been solved,
Speaker 1: and it literally just says like hey, contact this person
Speaker 1: if you can read this and the block, Yeah, that
Speaker 1: could be it. Yeah, and they get a job, you know,
Speaker 1: and they're sworn to secrecy. Yeah, maybe that's what it is.
Speaker 1: That's that's a good one. I like that one. My favorite,
Speaker 1: this is my personal favorite is that it's a tampon.
Speaker 1: They've got a box with a tampon in it, And
Speaker 1: that's just that's just my sense of humor. But I
Speaker 1: don't yeah, I would. I would just love that there's
Speaker 1: a big ceremony to they have on Earth that hermetically
Speaker 1: sealed box and the TV news cruiser there they Yeah. Well,
Speaker 1: here's the thing is that it actually kind of makes
Speaker 1: sense and anything from an in a metaphorical kind of way,
Speaker 1: because cryptography is about keeping meaning hidden. And if you
Speaker 1: look at tampons, when you buy a tampon in the store,
Speaker 1: it's hidden. It's in the box, and when you take
Speaker 1: it out of the box, well it's hidden somewhere else. Uh.
Speaker 1: And so you've done a lot of philosophizing in this episode.
Speaker 1: Day know that. Oh no, that might just might usual
Speaker 1: the philosopher king. But anyway, that's why I kind of
Speaker 1: like the tampon idea. But aside from the Philosopher's Stone, Yeah,
Speaker 1: are there. It could just be an uplifting message like
Speaker 1: peace on Earth or something like that. I hope it's not,
Speaker 1: but you know, it's always possible. If there's something like that,
Speaker 1: it would be pretty anti climatic, though, Yeah, it really
Speaker 1: would be. I'd be kind of a I'd be kind
Speaker 1: of a jerk thing to do, so I'm kind of
Speaker 1: thinking not. But yeah, I like actually I like your
Speaker 1: theory to having about an employment application. I think that's
Speaker 1: a good one. Yeah, yeah, contact us. We have one
Speaker 1: more mystery. Well yeah, mystery number six. Uh, well, is
Speaker 1: a mysterious hidden the object even still there? Because we've
Speaker 1: talked about like the Berlin Wall monument and everything being
Speaker 1: moved to a different place, and what if they did
Speaker 1: a little re landscaping they accidentally dug up the box
Speaker 1: that's got the tampon in it or whatever it's got
Speaker 1: the piece lilies. Yeah yeah, uh yeah exactly, or they're
Speaker 1: putting in a new sprinkler system. You know, I mean
Speaker 1: obviously this is classified where this thing is hidden, so
Speaker 1: if the guy out there just doing the work doesn't
Speaker 1: know about it, clink, oh yeah, yeah, yeah, there's always
Speaker 1: a possibility to that it's actually not even buried. I mean,
Speaker 1: it might actually be one of those hidden in plain
Speaker 1: sight kind of things. So you know, maybe some CIA
Speaker 1: employees stole it, you know, and then has it perceived.
Speaker 1: Or maybe Audre Chames actually because he was still working
Speaker 1: there of cryptos one up, James, the famous mole, maybe
Speaker 1: stole it and gave it to the Russians whatever it was. Currently,
Speaker 1: it's in Putin's office, yeah, desk, yeah, yea, and though
Speaker 1: or maybe you know, maybe the cleaning staff just accidentally
Speaker 1: threw it out. That'd be kind of funny, but it
Speaker 1: wouldn't be the first time. Yeah, I'm assuming it's something
Speaker 1: kind of secure, so that can't happen. You would help.
Speaker 1: So anyway, do you think who was it? Was it
Speaker 1: Einstein that stayed up for a day and a night
Speaker 1: and had everything on the chalkboard and passed out from exhaustion,
Speaker 1: and the cleaning lady cleaned the chalkboard for him. I
Speaker 1: took it all the way. That may not be a
Speaker 1: real story, but it's It may not have been Einstein,
Speaker 1: but I swear I've heard that before. I can imagine
Speaker 1: that that's why they put police don't erase or on
Speaker 1: those things. But yeah, I could. You would think that
Speaker 1: somebody would ask before they would erase all those equations.
Speaker 1: You would think, you would think. But yeah, so it
Speaker 1: appears our mystery is at an end. It does. So
Speaker 1: I lied at the beginning. I said we were going
Speaker 1: to solve it. Now I totally lied, always lying. Yeah, no,
Speaker 1: I I can. I can tell you what the answer is.
Speaker 1: What's that exactly? When you read it, that's what it
Speaker 1: says if you don't unscrample it. Yeah. I did that
Speaker 1: phonetically though, so please don't try and make that perfect.
Speaker 1: And hopefully by the time this goes to you know,
Speaker 1: goes to press, somebody won't have solved it in the thing.
Speaker 1: If they did, won't damn it. But if you have
Speaker 1: any thoughts on this, you can contact us, as always
Speaker 1: via email. We are at Thinking Sideways podcast at gmail
Speaker 1: dot com because we'd like to get an email fanmail,
Speaker 1: especially because you know we have so many fans out there. Uh.
Speaker 1: We also have a website believe it or not, Thinking
Speaker 1: sideways podcast dot com, where you can found our episodes.
Speaker 1: We've got an episode list out there so you can
Speaker 1: see the entire list. In turn, catalog, it's always Yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, you can download and listen to our our
Speaker 1: or can you download from there just listen straight up? Yeah,
Speaker 1: but also let's take you into the post and in
Speaker 1: the post player you can do the downloading if you
Speaker 1: want to do it directly from the website. And of
Speaker 1: course we have merchs there also, so you can are
Speaker 1: cool things like mugs and t shirts and all kinds
Speaker 1: of nifty stuff. Daggers. Do we have any daggers yet
Speaker 1: one of these days. Well. Yeah. Other places you can
Speaker 1: find us iTunes where you can subscribe. You can give
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Speaker 1: we have a sub reddit thinking sideways, we have any
Speaker 1: action on that lately? Devint? Yeah, okay uh and that's
Speaker 1: about it until next week. Would bye gay? He said
Speaker 1: in CRYPTI said in code in pig Latin. I know
Speaker 1: that code. Wow, bye everybody, Bye guys,