WEBVTT - UPDATE: Surprise Ruling Leads To Major Setback For Lindsay Clancy 0:00:02.259 --> 0:00:04.990 Hey there, folks. It is Thursday, October 22nd, and we 0:00:05.030 --> 0:00:10.229 have a significant update and potentially a significant setback for 0:00:10.350 --> 0:00:12.989 Lindsey Clancy. And with that, welcome to this episode of 0:00:13.010 --> 0:00:17.100 Amy and TJ Rope. This was a big, big part 0:00:17.239 --> 0:00:21.040 of her defense attorney trying to get this whole case 0:00:21.140 --> 0:00:23.360 thrown out. He wanted to go after this juror. 0:00:23.660 --> 0:00:24.120 That's right. 0:00:24.280 --> 0:00:28.400 So he wanted the juror investigated for, first of all, 0:00:29.120 --> 0:00:33.270 using his cell phone. He wanted to actually have the 0:00:33.310 --> 0:00:37.190 cell phone taken from juror, I guess, well, his name 0:00:37.250 --> 0:00:41.229 is Michael Disronville, but wanted his cell phone taken and 0:00:41.290 --> 0:00:44.510 examined to see who he was texting, when he was 0:00:44.570 --> 0:00:48.840 texting them. Number two, he wanted the juror investigated for 0:00:49.080 --> 0:00:53.379 lying on his juror questionnaire. And number three, He wanted 0:00:53.409 --> 0:00:56.730 the juror investigated for lying to the judge when he 0:00:56.810 --> 0:00:58.350 said he could follow instructions. 0:00:58.890 --> 0:01:01.170 It's fair to say he wanted to put this juror 0:01:01.270 --> 0:01:01.790 on trial. 0:01:02.550 --> 0:01:03.470 I think that's a good way to put it. 0:01:03.530 --> 0:01:07.600 Asking the judge to do so. And when was the 0:01:07.640 --> 0:01:09.780 last hearing? It was a couple of weeks ago now, 0:01:09.819 --> 0:01:11.259 but it was the first time she was back in 0:01:11.360 --> 0:01:15.870 court since the mistrial. And they were going down. Back 0:01:15.910 --> 0:01:17.720 and forth, we thought we might get some decisions, and 0:01:17.740 --> 0:01:20.480 they essentially punted everything to November 2nd. There's a new 0:01:20.520 --> 0:01:22.940 hearing coming up November 2nd. All of these things were 0:01:22.959 --> 0:01:25.539 supposed to be addressed, the motion to dismiss, the motion 0:01:25.580 --> 0:01:29.360 about this juror. Rose, we didn't, well, I didn't. Did 0:01:29.420 --> 0:01:34.209 I miss somewhere? We weren't necessarily expecting this decision this 0:01:34.310 --> 0:01:36.150 soon before the next scheduled hearing. 0:01:36.310 --> 0:01:39.240 No, I didn't see anywhere that that was anticipated, but 0:01:39.280 --> 0:01:42.920 the judge went ahead and made a ruling and denied 0:01:43.260 --> 0:01:49.030 Kevin Reddington's request to investigate Michael Desronville, the holdout juror. 0:01:49.090 --> 0:01:54.070 And look, if he had green-lighted an investigation into this juror, 0:01:54.510 --> 0:02:00.220 the implications of doing that were significant. You are basically criminalizing- 0:02:01.110 --> 0:02:05.210 a juror, or potentially saying that there was something that 0:02:05.810 --> 0:02:08.490 rose to the level where you're now, as a juror, 0:02:08.550 --> 0:02:12.470 being investigated because we don't like the way you deliberated. 0:02:12.530 --> 0:02:16.160 We don't like the way you processed the evidence. We 0:02:16.180 --> 0:02:20.200 don't like the way you dealt with the others in 0:02:20.240 --> 0:02:20.600 the room. 0:02:20.960 --> 0:02:23.160 That is frightening. And think about that. 0:02:23.260 --> 0:02:27.590 If they had actually even pursued an investigation, even if 0:02:27.600 --> 0:02:30.750 they had allowed this to go forward, any person. 0:02:31.389 --> 0:02:33.150 Like, none of us want to serve on a jury. 0:02:33.190 --> 0:02:34.890 I mean, there might be some people out there who do. No, 0:02:35.870 --> 0:02:38.500 and I understand. It could be fascinating to be a 0:02:38.510 --> 0:02:39.220 part of a trial. 0:02:39.260 --> 0:02:42.820 But generally. Yeah, I don't want to somehow act like 0:02:43.120 --> 0:02:46.870 nobody wants to. But most people, it's a massive disruption 0:02:46.910 --> 0:02:47.369 in your life. 0:02:47.690 --> 0:02:50.090 Nobody celebrates when the jury summons comes in the mail. 0:02:50.130 --> 0:02:50.450 No. 0:02:50.470 --> 0:02:52.090 It's okay to say that. You're trying to get out 0:02:52.110 --> 0:02:52.270 of it. 0:02:52.790 --> 0:02:53.230 Oh, my gosh. 0:02:53.250 --> 0:02:54.810 I tried to get out of three different times and 0:02:54.830 --> 0:02:57.630 eventually had to keep showing up. Every time my time 0:02:57.690 --> 0:03:00.170 runs up here in New York City, I swear the 0:03:00.290 --> 0:03:01.670 next day I get a jury summons. 0:03:01.750 --> 0:03:05.790 I've had three, maybe more, since I've lived in this city. 0:03:06.110 --> 0:03:06.930 That's a lot. 0:03:07.230 --> 0:03:08.850 I have had to go down to the courthouse. Yeah, 0:03:08.889 --> 0:03:11.070 so nobody wants it. Now, if I think. 0:03:12.200 --> 0:03:14.820 if my other jurors, fellow jurors, are mad at me 0:03:14.840 --> 0:03:16.600 because I don't think the way they think or I 0:03:16.639 --> 0:03:18.620 don't want to rule the way they rule, that I 0:03:18.660 --> 0:03:21.720 could be held in some sort of contempt of court 0:03:21.750 --> 0:03:25.690 or being investigated for my background, my cell phone. 0:03:27.110 --> 0:03:27.850 No one will. 0:03:28.310 --> 0:03:31.510 That's outrageous to think that that could happen in this country. 0:03:31.530 --> 0:03:35.900 People are going to start fleeing to avoid jury duty. Well, 0:03:36.160 --> 0:03:40.060 this was a lot. This idea of this was a lot. 0:03:40.180 --> 0:03:45.230 And Look, we applauded Kevin Reddington during that trial a 0:03:45.350 --> 0:03:48.930 lot for how he handled those witnesses. But Robes, the 0:03:48.970 --> 0:03:51.170 way he handled and the way he was talking about 0:03:51.550 --> 0:03:54.510 this juror didn't appreciate at all. They were beating up 0:03:55.010 --> 0:03:56.630 on this before we knew who this man was or 0:03:56.670 --> 0:03:59.790 any background. Robes was like, wow, they are really going 0:03:59.950 --> 0:04:03.230 after this guy. Tell him they lied under oath to 0:04:03.270 --> 0:04:06.790 the judge. And like, wow, it seems a little too much. 0:04:06.810 --> 0:04:08.350 And then we got the details we got. So yes, 0:04:08.390 --> 0:04:11.970 Michael Desronville held held tight in there for 40 hours 0:04:12.030 --> 0:04:16.550 almost in a deliberation robes 40 hours 11 to 1 0:04:16.550 --> 0:04:20.180 and as gail king would say oh he's black yes 0:04:20.240 --> 0:04:23.060 he was the one black juror on there 11 to 0:04:23.060 --> 0:04:25.120 1 so he held out robes he has done a 0:04:25.160 --> 0:04:27.000 few interviews well not a few he did the one 0:04:27.040 --> 0:04:29.840 with fox news right and he addressed some of this 0:04:29.860 --> 0:04:31.740 stuff said he had no doubts that he is a 0:04:31.779 --> 0:04:35.380 man of faith and so he really pushed back on 0:04:35.400 --> 0:04:38.240 all these claims that reddington was making but we do 0:04:38.300 --> 0:04:41.700 have the order the judge's order Only about four or 0:04:41.740 --> 0:04:45.719 five pages long. And we plucked out the significant excerpts. 0:04:45.779 --> 0:04:49.049 And Robes, a lot of this kind of makes sense. 0:04:49.110 --> 0:04:52.630 He wrote that this wasn't just about a lot of legalese. Robes, 0:04:52.670 --> 0:04:54.770 he said a lot of things here that he on 0:04:54.810 --> 0:04:57.550 the bench even said, I'm a little uncomfortable with that. 0:05:06.930 --> 0:05:09.690 Yeah, and look, and I think that most legal experts 0:05:09.830 --> 0:05:13.160 agree that it would be legally uncomfortable is maybe even 0:05:13.180 --> 0:05:15.040 a mild statement. And it's funny, when you said Michael 0:05:15.080 --> 0:05:17.719 Desronville was making the rounds, and then you said, well, actually, 0:05:17.760 --> 0:05:19.720 he only did Fox News, I think you meant to 0:05:19.760 --> 0:05:23.290 say his attorney. His attorney was making the rounds. And look, 0:05:23.390 --> 0:05:26.190 so he was speaking on his behalf from the get-go 0:05:26.570 --> 0:05:28.710 loudly to anyone who would listen that this was an 0:05:28.790 --> 0:05:30.170 outrageous situation. 0:05:30.570 --> 0:05:31.270 So the order. 0:05:32.650 --> 0:05:35.210 The order excerpts that we chose that are really interesting 0:05:35.250 --> 0:05:40.480 that the judge released. He said, it appears that Clancy 0:05:40.960 --> 0:05:45.700 seeks an evidentiary hearing to determine whether juror Doe lied 0:05:45.779 --> 0:05:49.140 on the jury questionnaire about prior involvement with the criminal 0:05:49.220 --> 0:05:54.669 justice system. However, potential evidence of good cause to dismiss 0:05:54.810 --> 0:05:57.930 a deliberating juror that came to light only after a 0:05:57.970 --> 0:06:01.640 mistrial was declared is simply is not relevant to whether 0:06:01.680 --> 0:06:09.440 there was a manifest necessity for a mistrial. The existence 0:06:09.800 --> 0:06:13.920 of manifest necessity is assessed based on what was known 0:06:14.060 --> 0:06:16.290 at the time of the judge's decision. 0:06:16.310 --> 0:06:18.969 That kind of makes sense, doesn't it? Yes. This is 0:06:19.170 --> 0:06:25.020 after the fact. It doesn't matter. It's some stuff you learned... afterwards, 0:06:25.400 --> 0:06:28.300 it doesn't apply to... I thought that was... And he cited, 0:06:28.339 --> 0:06:30.740 we didn't put him in here, but he cited legal precedent, 0:06:30.860 --> 0:06:33.560 other cases to where his point is correct. He called 0:06:33.620 --> 0:06:35.580 on to say prior to the declaration of a mistrial, 0:06:35.620 --> 0:06:39.880 defense counsel raised no suggestion that juror Doe had lied 0:06:40.120 --> 0:06:44.380 on the questionnaire. That information appears to have originated in 0:06:44.540 --> 0:06:47.520 post-trial media reports. So there you go, Robes. 0:06:47.640 --> 0:06:50.300 You didn't like the outcome, so then you go after 0:06:50.339 --> 0:06:53.000 the juror. That's not the way it works. And if 0:06:53.050 --> 0:06:56.580 the juror I like how they're still calling him Juror Doe, 0:06:56.640 --> 0:07:00.670 even though everyone knows it's Michael Disronville. But if Michael 0:07:00.710 --> 0:07:06.229 Disronville had voted to acquit Lindsey Clancy, there would be 0:07:06.270 --> 0:07:06.750 no issue. 0:07:07.110 --> 0:07:09.240 Of course not. We don't need to see his... Well, 0:07:09.800 --> 0:07:11.220 we won this thing, Judge, but I just want to 0:07:11.260 --> 0:07:13.300 make sure it's on the up and up. So check 0:07:13.320 --> 0:07:16.090 his questionnaire. We just want to make sure. course not. 0:07:16.310 --> 0:07:18.670 He finishes this section at least by saying, because post-trial 0:07:18.690 --> 0:07:23.570 information potentially affecting juror Doe's impartiality cannot be used to 0:07:23.650 --> 0:07:30.250 attack the determination that a mistrial was manifest necessity. Clancy 0:07:30.290 --> 0:07:33.570 is not entitled to an evidentiary hearing on that issue. 0:07:33.650 --> 0:07:40.020 Essentially saying, Robes, it's post-trial information, like potentially could have 0:07:40.060 --> 0:07:42.800 had an impact on He's just saying you can't go back. 0:07:42.840 --> 0:07:45.780 You can't revisit this thing. It's done. And whatever you 0:07:45.820 --> 0:07:50.200 found out about him afterwards has nothing to do with 0:07:50.250 --> 0:07:53.210 what happened in that room. This kind of made sense. 0:07:53.270 --> 0:07:56.370 Yeah. So that was what the judge ruled specifically on 0:07:56.450 --> 0:08:00.890 the lying on the juror questionnaire portion of Reddington's motion. 0:08:01.730 --> 0:08:04.740 On his cell phone use, this is what the judge 0:08:04.820 --> 0:08:09.140 had to say. A similar analysis applies to the argument 0:08:09.440 --> 0:08:12.520 that there may have been grounds to replace Juror Doe 0:08:13.020 --> 0:08:16.620 with an alternate based on Juror Doe's cell phone use, 0:08:16.990 --> 0:08:22.330 which may suggest exposure to extraneous evidence. Prior evidence to 0:08:22.350 --> 0:08:26.630 the declaration of a mistrial, defense counsel raised no suggestion 0:08:26.690 --> 0:08:30.130 that juror Doe had been exposed to extraneous evidence or 0:08:30.250 --> 0:08:34.939 improperly used a cell phone during deliberations because post trial 0:08:35.000 --> 0:08:39.400 information cannot be used to attack the determination that a 0:08:39.420 --> 0:08:43.330 mistrial was manifestly necessary. Clancy is not entitled to an 0:08:43.470 --> 0:08:45.670 evidentiary hearing on that issue. 0:08:46.010 --> 0:08:48.290 So the same rule applies. You can't use. 0:08:48.190 --> 0:08:51.880 Information you found after the fact because you didn't like 0:08:51.920 --> 0:08:54.439 the verdict against the juror who held out. 0:08:54.780 --> 0:08:58.910 Isn't that, Robes, I think this is going to be it, 0:09:00.570 --> 0:09:03.310 as far as Desronville goes. Because it was almost, we 0:09:03.330 --> 0:09:04.910 were holding our breath, like what are they going to 0:09:04.950 --> 0:09:07.990 do to this guy? What can they do to him? 0:09:08.050 --> 0:09:10.859 Someone even talking about lying on a juror forum is 0:09:10.900 --> 0:09:14.960 a crime. Robes, they were really coming at this dude. 0:09:15.880 --> 0:09:18.160 The judge puts this thing to bed. I wonder what's 0:09:18.179 --> 0:09:20.059 going to happen to this guy's life now. Will this 0:09:20.160 --> 0:09:23.480 all calm down and go away? He is essentially now 0:09:24.059 --> 0:09:27.959 completely done with this case. He's finished. He did his duty. 0:09:28.120 --> 0:09:30.439 And now the judge says, we're not bringing him back in. 0:09:30.440 --> 0:09:32.780 Yeah, he should be able to hopefully go back. 0:09:32.920 --> 0:09:35.340 And look, there are enough people who I think support 0:09:35.400 --> 0:09:38.420 him and support what he did. Once all the facts 0:09:38.460 --> 0:09:40.880 came out, certainly a lot of people. 0:09:42.480 --> 0:09:44.559 rallied to support. 0:09:44.240 --> 0:09:47.540 Him and to just, whether you agreed with his decision 0:09:47.580 --> 0:09:51.780 or not, it's his right, his duty even, to make 0:09:52.160 --> 0:09:57.090 the decision that most aligns with his interpretation of the evidence, period. 0:09:57.630 --> 0:09:59.710 And you remember that part, this next part in the order. 0:10:00.020 --> 0:10:02.240 order a lot of folks will remember there was a 0:10:02.740 --> 0:10:06.020 part there at the end during deliberations where they brought 0:10:06.660 --> 0:10:08.640 every juror in we didn't see it but it was 0:10:08.679 --> 0:10:10.780 happening in the courtroom they don't show the jurors but 0:10:10.820 --> 0:10:13.130 he had to bring them in one by one they 0:10:13.170 --> 0:10:16.010 had to be sworn in again essentially and say can 0:10:16.050 --> 0:10:20.330 you follow the judge's instructions they all answered yes Kevin 0:10:20.390 --> 0:10:25.459 Reddington suggested that by Michael Desronville answering yes, he was 0:10:25.700 --> 0:10:28.240 lying under oath, perjured himself. 0:10:28.360 --> 0:10:28.620 Yes. 0:10:28.900 --> 0:10:32.580 Because Reddington believes the guy was in there not following 0:10:32.620 --> 0:10:35.020 the judge's instructions. That's a really, I know. 0:10:35.080 --> 0:10:35.820 That was a stretch. 0:10:36.179 --> 0:10:38.780 I know, Reddington, you're fighting for your client. That was 0:10:38.860 --> 0:10:41.579 a stretch. So the judge addressed that part about lying 0:10:41.600 --> 0:10:41.979 to the judge. 0:10:42.059 --> 0:10:45.780 Yes, the judge wrote, finally, Clancy requests that this court 0:10:45.950 --> 0:10:50.340 question juror Doe about the sworn assurance that On September 3rd, 2026, 0:10:50.340 --> 0:10:53.600 that they were able to follow the law and the 0:10:53.640 --> 0:10:58.420 foreperson's notes suggesting that juror Doe was unwilling or unable 0:10:58.480 --> 0:10:59.380 to deliberate in. 0:10:59.360 --> 0:11:00.900 Accordance with the court's instructions. 0:11:01.420 --> 0:11:06.870 This court concludes that any further judicial inquiry is inappropriate. 0:11:07.309 --> 0:11:09.890 given the mandate that the court must not delve into 0:11:10.010 --> 0:11:14.750 a juror's subjective reasoning, thought process, view of the case, 0:11:15.130 --> 0:11:18.530 or relationship to the other jurors, and must not inquire 0:11:18.929 --> 0:11:23.270 into the jury's deliberative content, collective thought process, or any 0:11:23.450 --> 0:11:25.290 disagreement among the jury. 0:11:25.570 --> 0:11:29.459 They consider them sacred, babe. Jury deliberations. 0:11:29.580 --> 0:11:30.440 They have to be. 0:11:30.540 --> 0:11:31.320 They have to be. 0:11:31.760 --> 0:11:35.820 They have to be. Because, look, otherwise, as we were 0:11:35.840 --> 0:11:40.450 saying at the beginning... in an already difficult position many 0:11:40.470 --> 0:11:43.790 jurors find themselves in, just AKA not wanting to be there, 0:11:44.550 --> 0:11:48.170 thinking that, uh-oh, if I don't agree with the others, 0:11:49.030 --> 0:11:54.880 I'm gonna get completely subjected to scrutiny. And he did regardless, 0:11:55.020 --> 0:11:56.939 even if it didn't rise to a legal level where 0:11:56.980 --> 0:12:00.260 he was under any sort of legal jeopardy, publicly, the 0:12:00.320 --> 0:12:03.819 scrutiny was overwhelming. To add some sort of legal part 0:12:03.840 --> 0:12:06.340 to that on top of it would just be to 0:12:06.440 --> 0:12:07.660 me insane. 0:12:07.940 --> 0:12:12.750 I put myself in the seat of the defendant. Roe, 0:12:12.790 --> 0:12:15.830 this messes up the whole judicial system. And the point 0:12:15.870 --> 0:12:18.150 you just made, if I'm sitting there and I'm the 0:12:18.370 --> 0:12:21.210 one and I got 11, okay, guys, I'll vote with you. 0:12:21.910 --> 0:12:23.900 Please don't go out there and blast me on TV. 0:12:24.080 --> 0:12:25.339 I don't want to get dis-Ronville'd. 0:12:25.600 --> 0:12:28.960 Yes, that's the new thing. And now what about me 0:12:29.179 --> 0:12:32.820 as the defendant? I have somebody in there that's on 0:12:32.860 --> 0:12:35.410 my side that It's like, nah, I saw what they 0:12:35.429 --> 0:12:36.210 did to that other dude. 0:12:36.250 --> 0:12:36.940 It's not worth it. 0:12:36.970 --> 0:12:37.510 I ain't here for it. 0:12:37.530 --> 0:12:39.490 It's me or him or me or her. 0:12:39.690 --> 0:12:43.390 Yes, and I prefer you go to jail. Rose, no, 0:12:43.410 --> 0:12:46.470 you make a very, very good point. This screws up 0:12:46.530 --> 0:12:49.860 the system. I love his line there, babe, about the 0:12:50.700 --> 0:12:55.000 it's inappropriate. Your mandate is to not delve literally into 0:12:55.040 --> 0:12:55.880 the juror's mind. 0:12:56.520 --> 0:12:57.100 Exactly. 0:12:57.160 --> 0:13:00.300 How can you say what he's feeling or thinking? 0:13:00.660 --> 0:13:03.640 His background or his process or how he views it 0:13:03.660 --> 0:13:06.580 or what his... Robes, that's a very good line. But 0:13:06.620 --> 0:13:09.430 stay here. We'll show you and we'll tell you how 0:13:09.470 --> 0:13:15.910 the judge closed out his note, his order, I should say, 0:13:15.950 --> 0:13:19.490 in response to the motion. How he closed out saying that, no, 0:13:19.850 --> 0:13:21.510 we are not bringing the juror back in. And we'll 0:13:21.550 --> 0:13:24.900 tell you what actually is next for Lindsey Clancy. 0:13:34.040 --> 0:13:36.460 Welcome back, everyone, to Amy and TJ. 0:13:36.480 --> 0:13:39.380 Yes, we got a bit of a surprise ruling, an 0:13:39.620 --> 0:13:42.800 order from the judge in the Lindsay Clancy case. And 0:13:42.860 --> 0:13:46.100 Kevin Reddington is not getting what he wanted. He wanted 0:13:46.620 --> 0:13:50.740 the holdout juror, Michael Desronville, to be held, I guess, 0:13:50.880 --> 0:13:54.720 accountable for not agreeing with the other jurors, so to speak. 0:13:54.860 --> 0:13:59.220 And the judge completely shot any chance of any sort 0:13:59.260 --> 0:14:03.410 of inquiry or investigation into the juror. And he closed 0:14:03.630 --> 0:14:24.790 out his order by saying this. The court gave the 0:14:24.870 --> 0:14:29.050 Tui Rodriguez charge and the four person's notes identified juror 0:14:29.090 --> 0:14:34.490 Doe as the lone holdout. The notes were not ambiguous. Accordingly, 0:14:34.550 --> 0:14:38.430 the court in its discretion concludes that an evidentiary hearing 0:14:38.650 --> 0:14:43.290 is not required to properly resolve Clancy's motion to dismiss. 0:14:43.980 --> 0:14:48.300 That's it. That's done. Try something else. That is the 0:14:48.360 --> 0:14:51.270 end of it. Michael Desronville is off the hook. He 0:14:51.430 --> 0:14:54.740 is done with this case from a legal standpoint right now. 0:14:55.320 --> 0:14:57.800 At least, Rose, this was, I don't know if it 0:14:57.820 --> 0:15:01.800 was a Hail Mary, but clearly they were putting a 0:15:01.880 --> 0:15:06.870 lot in the loan holdout basket in trying to get 0:15:06.910 --> 0:15:09.590 a motion for dismissal. So that is a big argument 0:15:09.630 --> 0:15:12.490 they were going to make that they do not have anymore. 0:15:13.210 --> 0:15:14.030 No, they do not. 0:15:14.190 --> 0:15:18.650 And so we're going to be hearing from... Kevin Reddington 0:15:19.050 --> 0:15:22.270 and others, and we'll hear, hopefully, a lot of decisions 0:15:22.310 --> 0:15:25.930 being made on November 2nd, because he still has a 0:15:25.970 --> 0:15:29.580 motion to dismiss, correct, in there? I just always think 0:15:29.600 --> 0:15:32.600 this is so interesting, the way the grounds are double 0:15:32.720 --> 0:15:38.180 jeopardy grounds, because basically what Lindsey Clancy's defense team is arguing, 0:15:38.260 --> 0:15:41.180 or I guess that's Kevin Reddington, basically, is arguing that 0:15:41.280 --> 0:15:47.609 a second trial would violate Lindsey Clancy's constitutional rights double 0:15:47.710 --> 0:15:52.620 jeopardy protections because he's claiming, Kevin Reddington is claiming, that 0:15:52.670 --> 0:16:00.780 the judge declared a mistrial prematurely without a sufficient inquiry. 0:16:00.880 --> 0:16:02.260 Is this into the juror still? 0:16:02.460 --> 0:16:11.060 His argument is that this jury cleared her on most 0:16:11.120 --> 0:16:15.400 of the charges because Desronville... I don't know if it 0:16:15.420 --> 0:16:18.960 was first degree. He's making the argument that the jury 0:16:19.080 --> 0:16:22.400 was in agreement on a couple of these murder charges. 0:16:22.910 --> 0:16:25.250 So throw those out, and that should be double jeopardy. 0:16:25.330 --> 0:16:29.510 Right, because from what we've heard from the jurors, correct, 0:16:29.550 --> 0:16:33.010 that Michael DeSronville was willing to come down from first degree. 0:16:33.790 --> 0:16:36.640 But do we know what he was willing to, was 0:16:36.700 --> 0:16:38.560 he willing to do manslaughter? 0:16:38.580 --> 0:16:41.040 I don't know if he was asked that in his interview. 0:16:41.060 --> 0:16:42.050 Yeah. Dang. 0:16:42.070 --> 0:16:43.050 I don't remember asking that question. 0:16:43.090 --> 0:16:44.500 Because I would be interested. Was he. 0:16:44.530 --> 0:16:47.980 Because obviously the jury had the choice of first degree, 0:16:48.000 --> 0:16:51.900 second degree, manslaughter, or not guilty. We know that 11 0:16:51.900 --> 0:16:54.620 of the jurors were all on board with the not guilty. 0:16:55.020 --> 0:16:57.770 But what did Michael Disronville... What was he willing to 0:16:57.790 --> 0:17:01.010 come down to? Second degree or manslaughter? And so that's 0:17:01.110 --> 0:17:02.790 part of Reddington's argument. 0:17:03.150 --> 0:17:05.510 That's part of it. And the other, of course, is that... 0:17:06.640 --> 0:17:10.280 Desronville shouldn't be there anyway. His vote shouldn't count. She 0:17:10.320 --> 0:17:14.680 was essentially acquitted. Let's all go home. So that motion 0:17:14.700 --> 0:17:16.119 was dismissed. So we're supposed to hear about that on 0:17:16.140 --> 0:17:16.830 November 2nd. 0:17:17.050 --> 0:17:19.550 It's called renewal of Rule 25 motion. 0:17:20.710 --> 0:17:22.690 Yes, that's I didn't even know this was out there, 0:17:22.830 --> 0:17:26.650 citing that because 11 of the 12 jurors wanted to 0:17:26.730 --> 0:17:32.530 acquit Lindsay Clancy, that That he would then, the judge 0:17:32.570 --> 0:17:34.760 could be required to finding her not guilty. 0:17:34.780 --> 0:17:36.340 That makes no sense to me. 0:17:36.780 --> 0:17:37.040 Huh. 0:17:37.240 --> 0:17:38.500 I mean, I get it. These are a lot of 0:17:38.520 --> 0:17:39.300 these are Hail Marys. 0:17:39.340 --> 0:17:43.119 And then he wants, the prosecution wants a gag order in. 0:17:43.180 --> 0:17:48.530 They want to limit public statements regarding jurors in the case. 0:17:48.550 --> 0:17:50.929 They just, they want a gag order on this. I 0:17:51.010 --> 0:17:53.390 feel like the cat's out of the bag at this point. 0:17:53.430 --> 0:17:56.010 I mean, People are obsessed with this. Every bit of 0:17:56.050 --> 0:17:58.709 information seems to be getting out, at least. And then 0:17:58.730 --> 0:18:02.440 we're trying to see if, like, has the prosecution fully 0:18:02.480 --> 0:18:08.940 come out and said, we are going to absolutely recharge 0:18:09.000 --> 0:18:11.080 Lindsay Clancy or the charges are going to stand and 0:18:11.100 --> 0:18:12.020 we want a new trial? 0:18:13.440 --> 0:18:15.180 They haven't officially said that. 0:18:15.220 --> 0:18:17.410 Well, we have to say yes, because they were behaving 0:18:17.450 --> 0:18:20.350 in the last hearing as if they say, yes, we'll 0:18:20.369 --> 0:18:23.260 be ready for the next trial. They were getting ready 0:18:23.300 --> 0:18:25.920 for trial. They were in discussions with the judge about 0:18:26.020 --> 0:18:29.680 a retrial and dates for a retrial. They didn't say, 0:18:29.940 --> 0:18:32.100 we're not ready for that yet, or hold off, we 0:18:32.119 --> 0:18:35.710 need to make a decision. They were looking at retrial 0:18:35.750 --> 0:18:36.889 dates with the judge. 0:18:37.590 --> 0:18:40.170 And the last we heard from Kevin Rennington is that 0:18:40.310 --> 0:18:44.710 he can't be ready until June, right? So it doesn't 0:18:44.730 --> 0:18:47.350 look like, look, if they actually set a new trial date, 0:18:47.430 --> 0:18:50.530 and that will be big news, looks like it will 0:18:50.590 --> 0:18:56.429 be next summer, which, oh boy, are any of us 0:18:56.510 --> 0:18:58.290 ready for another trial? 0:18:58.550 --> 0:19:00.310 They'll plea. They got to plead out. 0:19:00.390 --> 0:19:02.929 That's what I'm hoping. I think that's what the world 0:19:02.990 --> 0:19:03.930 is hoping at this point. 0:19:04.270 --> 0:19:06.770 But folks, that is an update. That is a significant one. 0:19:06.810 --> 0:19:09.190 The next one we will get, we anticipate getting, will 0:19:09.230 --> 0:19:11.340 be a little over a week from now, November 2nd, 0:19:11.359 --> 0:19:14.580 when she does have Another status hearing where we are 0:19:14.660 --> 0:19:17.400 expecting to hear the judge decide on a motion for 0:19:17.420 --> 0:19:21.409 dismissal and decide potentially on a new trial day for 0:19:21.450 --> 0:19:24.429 Lindsey Clancy. We always appreciate you spending some time with us. 0:19:24.450 --> 0:19:26.030 I'm TJ. That's Robes. We'll talk soon.