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Speaker 1: Hey, everybody, welcome to another episode of I Saw What

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Speaker 1: You Did. My name is Melie de Cherico. I'm Daniel Henderson,

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Speaker 1: and we're back with you to talk about film. I

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Speaker 1: hope you're listening to this in one point two five

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Speaker 1: speed like I do.

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Speaker 2: Do you really? Ah?

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Speaker 1: Have you tried that? Have you tried to change the

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Speaker 1: speed on our voices? Sometimes just for fun?

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Speaker 3: I have not tried it in listening to the episodes,

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Speaker 3: but I listened at two time speed when we edit.

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Speaker 3: Oh good, yeah, because it takes the editing time down

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Speaker 3: by a lot.

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Speaker 1: Yes, I I have to say, I like myself better

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Speaker 1: in one.

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Speaker 2: Point what's the difference.

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Speaker 1: I'd sound less meandering, I sound like I know what

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Speaker 1: I'm talking about, and I'm very concise. Yes. Like, it's

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Speaker 1: so funny because I discovered this because of an accident. Basically,

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Speaker 1: I accidentally had it in zero point one two five

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Speaker 1: speed when I was just, you know, like listening back

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Speaker 1: to one of the episodes, and I was like, man,

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Speaker 1: I sound great. I sond like I know what I'm

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Speaker 1: talking about. I'm not stumbling bumbly fumbly lady.

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Speaker 2: You're never stumbling bumbly fumbly lady.

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Speaker 1: Thank you for thank you for saying that. But you

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Speaker 1: know how it is like you listen to your own

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Speaker 1: voice and you're just.

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Speaker 2: Like, oh, poor gross.

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Speaker 1: And I was like, what is up with me? That

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Speaker 1: the coffee was hitting that day? What happened? And then

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Speaker 1: I realized, oh, I'm just like a little bit faster.

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Speaker 1: And then I'm like, I gotta get in the zone

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Speaker 1: for this, Like I don't know, I gotta either keep

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Speaker 1: listening to the podcast at one point two five were

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Speaker 1: just I don't speed myself up.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, you're gonna sart. Are you gonna start a talking

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Speaker 3: one point two five? It like the micromachines.

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Speaker 1: Guy, we'd have to drink at least eight more cups.

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Speaker 3: I know I'm drinking hot coffee today that I made

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Speaker 3: it home, so I have my cup that's basically the

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Speaker 3: size of a super bowl. Oh yeah, so like in

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Speaker 3: like ten minutes, I'm gonna be fucking zooming.

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Speaker 1: I know, I know. And I actually drank a cup

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Speaker 1: of coffee and then cracked open one of these canned

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Speaker 1: lattes because I was damn, oh yeah, I need I

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Speaker 1: need a little extra today and I don't have time

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Speaker 1: to make more coffee. So now I'm on like a

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Speaker 1: gas station latte on top of regular coffee. This is

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Speaker 1: gonna be a one.

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Speaker 3: What's cracking me up is that we both chose movies

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Speaker 3: that were over two hours long for this week, so

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Speaker 3: we're both like, we need all the coffee in the

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Speaker 3: world to sum this up.

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Speaker 1: I know, I know exactly exactly. You're like, live it

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Speaker 1: on one.

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Speaker 2: Point twenty five speed with that coffee.

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Speaker 1: Oh, I'm on like at least two times, if not more,

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Speaker 1: But my heart is racing at two times.

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Speaker 2: So now do you listen to every podcast that way now?

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Speaker 3: Because I know that you have been digging into the

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Speaker 3: vander Pump universe via the podcast that every single fucking

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Speaker 3: cast member apparently has.

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Speaker 1: Ah what why? What am I doing? This is such

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Speaker 1: a dark road, don't you think to listen to the

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Speaker 1: vander Pump cast members podcasts?

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Speaker 3: I absolutely think it's a dark road, especially because the

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Speaker 3: way that Kristin has inserted herself in this narrative of

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Speaker 3: what's happening drives me up a fucking wall. Because Kristin,

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Speaker 3: I'm like, Okay, two things can be true at the

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Speaker 3: same time. You can be upset at Tom Sandoval and

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Speaker 3: kind of righteous in your indignation that he is exactly

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Speaker 3: who you've always said he is, but you are also

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Speaker 3: still fucking insane.

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Speaker 2: Yes, like, dude, get pit true with the same time.

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Speaker 1: I know, and it's kind of how I feel about

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Speaker 1: Jack's He's also like making waves.

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Speaker 3: Jax jumped on this. Did you see his Watch what Happened?

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Speaker 3: Watch What Happens Live with Brittany?

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Speaker 1: Oh? Yes, I did.

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Speaker 3: First and foremost, that skin is taut. He looks like

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Speaker 3: the fucking skin alien from Doctor Who, who's just like

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Speaker 3: face stretched over a frame.

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Speaker 1: He must have had one of those like Tom and

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Speaker 1: Jerry cartoon things where they like remove the face, shook

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Speaker 1: it out like laundry, and then just put it back

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Speaker 1: on a like you know how anytime they would unzip

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Speaker 1: their own skin. I was like, that's very strange. I

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Speaker 1: feel like Jacks unzipped his face skin, shook it out,

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Speaker 1: and then put it back. I I okay. So I've

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Speaker 1: been having because of like all of the latest vander

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Speaker 1: Pump drama the news. I have had several people in

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Speaker 1: my life come to me and be like, what is

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Speaker 1: up with all this? I don't even know what this

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Speaker 1: show is. I don't know why is this in the

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Speaker 1: New York times, and so I've had to give them

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Speaker 1: like a real quick elevator pitch as to like what

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Speaker 1: the show is, and I just all I say is,

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Speaker 1: this is a show that's been on for ten years.

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Speaker 1: It's a spin off of a Real Housewives show. If

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Speaker 1: the cast member is currently on the show, they're either

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Speaker 1: in a lawsuit or getting a divorced. If they were

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Speaker 1: on the show and are not on the show, it's

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Speaker 1: because they've been canceled for racist tweets.

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Speaker 3: You know, like trying to get their singular black coworker fired.

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Speaker 2: And implicating her in a theft that did not happen.

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Speaker 1: Right, so you have So what's interesting is that that

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Speaker 1: to that point really is so now these canceled people

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Speaker 1: have been uncanceled to come and give a take on

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Speaker 1: the latest drama, which is that two of the cast

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Speaker 1: members of this reality show that were in this group

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Speaker 1: of friends that had this like insane like Navy Seals

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Speaker 1: esque loyalty pack. Like I'm like, I love my friends,

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Speaker 1: but not to this degree. I'm like I don't understand,

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Speaker 1: like how how friendships like this get formed where you're

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Speaker 1: like there's like a bunch of rules and regulations where

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Speaker 1: certain people are not. They have to stay loyal to

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Speaker 1: each other despite the fact that they all cheat on

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Speaker 1: each other and all.

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Speaker 3: This shit exactly, which is a prominent theme in one

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Speaker 3: of the movies this week where you're like, what the fuck?

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Speaker 2: But yeah, I don't.

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Speaker 3: Understand how how they're friends because this is all based

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Speaker 3: on the premise that these are people who used to

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Speaker 3: work together at one of Lisa vander Pump's restaurants, and

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Speaker 3: the restaurant has become such a minor plot point. It

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Speaker 3: is all about the drama in their lives now the

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Speaker 3: restaurant is like, maybe they show ten seconds of it

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Speaker 3: every episode, every other episode, but.

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Speaker 2: They used to work together.

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Speaker 3: You think I still even am in communication with half

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Speaker 3: the people I worked at in restaurants with No, absolutely not.

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Speaker 3: And they are fine people, but we all just went

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Speaker 3: our separate fucking ways.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And to be honest, I mean, I think the

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Speaker 1: evolution of the show I can't. First of all, I

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Speaker 1: cannot believe us but on for a decade that is

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Speaker 1: too much.

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Speaker 2: I've been watching it from day one.

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Speaker 3: I remember when the first episode started and it was

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Speaker 3: the end of an episode of Beverly Hills, and it

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Speaker 3: morphed into Sena walking through sir, and that's how they

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Speaker 3: started Vanderpump.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. I wish I had said that I was a

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Speaker 1: day one. I was an a one from day one

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Speaker 1: because I only started watching it when I moved to

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Speaker 1: West Hollywood, which is and I really don't know why,

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Speaker 1: other than it felt like the neighborhood news. Like I

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Speaker 1: was like, Oh, this is happening in my neighborhood. Like

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Speaker 1: one of the actual cast members that left the show

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Speaker 1: but wasn't for racist reasons lived like two buildings down

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Speaker 1: from mine. So I just felt like, no, I need

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Speaker 1: to watch the show because it's happening where I live.

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Speaker 1: And so, but then from that point I was like,

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Speaker 1: I'm in. I'm invested, Like I watched every single episode

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Speaker 1: and now I'm caught up on ten years worth.

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Speaker 2: Of this tin bullshit rights of pure drama.

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Speaker 3: And if if you don't know what we're talking about now,

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Speaker 3: what's in the news now?

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Speaker 2: One you have? You do much better things with your

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Speaker 2: time than I do.

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Speaker 3: I am a huge time wasting motherfucker when it comes

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Speaker 3: to the shit. And we're talking about the fact that

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Speaker 3: Tom Sandoval and Ariana Maddox, who dated for eight years,

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Speaker 3: got together on the show are now split because Tom

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Speaker 3: cheated on her with another cast member, who I have

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Speaker 3: to say is the most unintelligent and ridiculous person in

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Speaker 3: the world.

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Speaker 2: And he cheated on Ariana.

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Speaker 3: Who's always been like the most down to earth, honest,

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Speaker 3: front facing person on the show.

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Speaker 2: And people are fucking livid.

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Speaker 3: They're calling it scanned of all, huh. And it is

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Speaker 3: rocking the world right now. It's rocking lives across the

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Speaker 3: world right now.

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Speaker 2: The fact that this motherfucker cheated on.

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Speaker 3: Ariana, who I have to say, Arianna fantastic And you

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Speaker 3: know this, and I've mentioned this.

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Speaker 2: Millie and I are also in a group chat about this. Yes,

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Speaker 2: and I've mentioned this in the group chat.

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Speaker 3: I have said from pretty much day one that both

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Speaker 3: Tom's fucking sucked.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Tom Schwartz is an idiot. He's an immature, inane motherfucker.

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Speaker 3: I just can't stand his goofy like, oh, he's just

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Speaker 3: he refuses to grow up. He's an absolute asshole. He

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Speaker 3: does just violently awful things under the guise of but

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Speaker 3: I'm just a good guy.

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Speaker 2: I don't know what's going on. Yeah, he sucks.

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Speaker 3: And Sandoval is the most fame seeking mustachio motherfucker. I've

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Speaker 3: ever seen. Every move he makes is so that he

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Speaker 3: can increase his own image, and he is again like

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Speaker 3: just quick to anger, absolute shithead. Neither of them are cute.

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Speaker 3: I can't believe anyone is even dating them. But here

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Speaker 3: you go, and I just I can't stand any either

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Speaker 3: of them.

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Speaker 2: I have always thought they both fucking sucked.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I'm so envious of you because I

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Speaker 1: definitely was a Sandoval apologist for many years. And and

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Speaker 1: here here's what I think it's really about for me

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Speaker 1: is that I think Jack's colored the show so much

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Speaker 1: that it made us not realize that there were other

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Speaker 1: idiot assholes under our nose, Like you know what I mean,

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Speaker 1: Like his behavior was so poor and his vibe was

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Speaker 1: so much a part of the show that it meant

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Speaker 1: that everybody else looked better because of it. These two

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Speaker 1: guys who were actually trash, but you know, they weren't

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Speaker 1: as trash as much trash as the other guy or whatever,

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Speaker 1: So they exactly exactly.

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Speaker 3: And the moment it was really cemented for me was

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Speaker 3: when Jax was no longer I believe Jackson is no

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Speaker 3: longer on the show. At this moment, I could be incorrect.

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Speaker 3: Don't tell me because I am rewatching everything from the

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Speaker 3: beginning right now, so I'll figure it out eventually. But

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Speaker 3: there was a moment where Arianna was really upset and

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Speaker 3: there was like a death or like something really tragic

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Speaker 3: happening in her life, and Tom said, oh, that said,

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Speaker 3: I'm gonna go to Last Vague and play with dump

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Speaker 3: trucks with my friends. And I was like, at that moment,

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Speaker 3: I'm fucking out on this dude forever. I don't care

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Speaker 3: if he rescues dogs by the dozens, I don't care

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Speaker 3: if he adopts fifteen babies.

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Speaker 2: I'm out on this guy.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, leaving his incredibly distraught girlfriend in her time of

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Speaker 3: need to go play with trucks in Las Vegas.

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Speaker 2: I hate him.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. There has been so many instances in the course

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Speaker 1: of this decade long show where you're like, God, damn,

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Speaker 1: this is bad, Like this bad behavior, this is a

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Speaker 1: bad choice, this is a bad thing, right absolutely. I Mean,

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Speaker 1: here's the thing that I will say though about these guys,

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Speaker 1: because first of all, I feel like the show. Yes,

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Speaker 1: it's about like all of these servers that work in

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Speaker 1: Lisa's restaurant, but but she's the fucking puppet master of

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Speaker 1: all of them, totally okay, And when it comes down

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Speaker 1: to it, she needs a vehicle to allow her like

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Speaker 1: fucking weird Austin Power's ass jokes, and the only way

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Speaker 1: to do that is that she has like idiot stud

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Speaker 1: model boys around to be able to do that, right,

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Speaker 1: because it's like that's the thing is that it's like,

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Speaker 1: look at all my employees. It's a beautiful and straight

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Speaker 1: and bad be they're drunk, bad behavior like on day's

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Speaker 1: so crazy and randy and sexy. Baby. Yeah, you know

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Speaker 1: that's her vibe.

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Speaker 3: I think that was the actual dialogue for one of

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Speaker 3: those calendar photoshoots they used to do.

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Speaker 1: So I'm like, yes, that, like she needs these show

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Speaker 1: ponies to flail like this is like how this is

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Speaker 1: the whole braind of this is that she's the puppet

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Speaker 1: master of these like dumb straight guys. Okay, absolutely, I

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Speaker 1: have to say, I I am I like a little

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Speaker 1: corny as you know, like I'm not afraid of a

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Speaker 1: little corny. Like when I found out that like all

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Speaker 1: these people are originally from Florida, I was like, that's it,

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Speaker 1: Like I'm sold. And I think that's why I personally,

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Speaker 1: you know, have been invested into the show because the

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Speaker 1: undercurrent of the drama is the fact that these are

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Speaker 1: trashy Florida models. It's a very magic mic esque origin story,

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Speaker 1: which I have a soft spot for.

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Speaker 3: Absolutely, and they are all now they are the human

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Speaker 3: version of the miniature ponies that Lisa owns.

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Speaker 1: Yes, they're like there little Jiggy's her little her little

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Speaker 1: dogs that she dresses up in tuxedos and trapes trapesing

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Speaker 1: around West Hollywood.

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Speaker 4: Right.

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Speaker 1: But it's like there was a moment I think for

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Speaker 1: Sandoval where once Jack's made his exit, he was like

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Speaker 1: rubbing his hands together, like is my time to shine.

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Speaker 1: Let's turn up the juice and see what shakes loose

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Speaker 1: fucking meal juice style. Like he was like, I'm the

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Speaker 1: number one guys, I can be full on obnoxious. I'm

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Speaker 1: getting fucking white eyed dreads or whatever the hell he

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Speaker 1: changed his hair, got a mustache. Like he's like, I'm

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Speaker 1: starting to bamd. I'm doing like I'm going full on,

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Speaker 1: and I'm like I I this is a bridge too

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Speaker 1: far for me, dude, Like I used to think that

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Speaker 1: you were okay, a little corny no, which I appreciated. Now,

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Speaker 1: I'm like, now, you're just too much.

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Speaker 3: And you know for a fact that someone maybe Lisa,

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Speaker 3: but someone said to him, you are the number one

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Speaker 3: guy now, like you're you can do whatever you want.

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Speaker 2: You're the star of the show.

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Speaker 3: And he took it and fucking ran with it. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: somebody gave him that note at some point and they

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Speaker 3: not know what they were doing or what they were creating.

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Speaker 1: Well, and that's the thing is that she's so invested

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Speaker 1: in these Toms, right, That's the thing is that she

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Speaker 1: loves the Toms because the Toms are like her most

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Speaker 1: perfect invention.

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Speaker 2: She weird, She weird science to the fuck out of

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Speaker 2: those dudes.

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Speaker 1: Yes, she's like, let's give him there on bar. Let

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Speaker 1: him be bad naughty boys there.

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Speaker 3: Which, by the way, Tom Schwartz was basically unemployed until

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Speaker 3: he owned a bar.

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Speaker 2: Who the fuck invests in that, dude?

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Speaker 1: That's they don't. But that's the thing is that they

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Speaker 1: don't even their function is not even to own a thing.

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Speaker 1: It's just to party, party in a bar. That's all

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Speaker 1: they gotta do. They don't have to fucking care about

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Speaker 1: whether or not they're paying towels and the fucking bathrooms.

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Speaker 1: They're just like they're just there to like do bumps.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely, you know, and hey, I'm.

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Speaker 3: Going to go so far as to say that the

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Speaker 3: Toms are basically glorified Hooters girls.

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Speaker 1: Oh a hundred percent. But I have to ask, Okay,

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Speaker 1: so you know what, and I actually we might have

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Speaker 1: to get Casey and on this one too. Casey our

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Speaker 1: producer who also is a Vanner Pump fan. As we

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Speaker 1: found out this is a pro Vanner Pump podcast.

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Speaker 3: Casey is the kind of person who just keeps getting

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Speaker 3: better and better. The more you like, the more you

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Speaker 3: find out, the more you're like, this guy's awesome.

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Speaker 1: Yes, and I think it's interesting that he also weighed

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Speaker 1: in on Magic Mike, so it's like, exactly, you have

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Speaker 1: won a sober dude.

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Speaker 5: You bring me in for the more complicated topics to discuss.

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Speaker 3: The true intellectual deep diving is when we call it.

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Speaker 1: So let me ask this roundtable question. Okay, do you

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Speaker 1: think Tom Sandibal and Raquel have a future? What?

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Speaker 3: Okay, here, I'm gonna talk this out because my gut

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Speaker 3: instinct is no way, there is no Are they together now? Yeah,

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Speaker 3: they're together now. In recent weeks, she has slept over

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Speaker 3: at their house while Arianna was gone filming.

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Speaker 2: A Lifetime movie.

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Speaker 3: Okay, so they are together now, they're together, film together

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Speaker 3: outside of the reunion show, like chatting it up and

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Speaker 3: being together and like decompressing together.

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Speaker 2: Pictures.

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Speaker 3: My gut naturally, so my gut instinct is to say no.

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Speaker 3: But here's the thing. They are both exactly as idiotic

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Speaker 3: as each other. So it might work because she is

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Speaker 3: like out to lunch all the time. There is nothing happen.

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Speaker 3: It is the most smooth brained person I've ever seen

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Speaker 3: on TV.

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Speaker 5: Raquel's trajectory on the show is so fascinating because she

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Speaker 5: was such a like third or fourth tier person on

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Speaker 5: the show that was like constantly trying to get on

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Speaker 5: the show, and she is so dumb, but she's so

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Speaker 5: villainous and her plan in a way worked. She's like

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Speaker 5: the center of the universe.

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Speaker 1: Now.

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Speaker 5: Did anyone see ty West's pearl?

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Speaker 2: Oh?

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00:19:29,440 --> 00:19:32,960
Speaker 5: Yeah, it just reminds It's like she wants to be

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Speaker 5: a star. She wants to be at the center of this.

346
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Speaker 5: And if you go back and past seasons, it's like

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Speaker 5: all of her storylines. We're talking to James Kennedy being like,

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Speaker 5: you need to make up with the group. You need

349
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Speaker 5: to get back in the group. So it's just it's

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Speaker 5: very interesting, Oh yeah, to see sort of her trajectory

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Speaker 5: from day one to where she's at now.

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Speaker 3: And she has admitted that she was a fan of

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Speaker 3: the show before she was on the show. So I

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Speaker 3: even think her relationship with James was crafted. Oh yes,

355
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Speaker 3: her to be present on the show.

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Speaker 1: Yes, I mean he to his credit, he seems like

357
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Speaker 1: he would literally fall in love with any hot chick

358
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Speaker 1: came into his orbit right completely, so you know he

359
00:20:13,760 --> 00:20:16,360
Speaker 1: was going to fall in love with her regardless. But like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I think it's interesting that she has suddenly become the

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Speaker 1: center of the show because think about how many of

362
00:20:22,040 --> 00:20:26,720
Speaker 1: the the cast members, boyfriends and girlfriends have come and

363
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Speaker 1: went like, how how come Carter ain't on the show?

364
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Speaker 1: How come you know whatever?

365
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Speaker 4: They like, bo Bo's gone, Well, listen, he had to

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Speaker 4: take one for the team because you know, he got.

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Speaker 2: Cut fucking racist, Maybe we had to cut that.

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Speaker 3: But well, I think that's like, no, I think that's

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Speaker 3: been proven.

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Speaker 5: I read an interview with Stassy where because she's the

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Speaker 5: only one that hasn't creeped her way back on the

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Speaker 5: show because Jack's Kristen, all the old heads they get

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Speaker 5: they have gotten back in, but stasy hasn't. And I

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Speaker 5: read in an interview with her she said, I miss

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Speaker 5: reality television. I'm trying to get back in. So I

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Speaker 5: have a feeling she has tried to get back in

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Speaker 5: but just wasn't allowed back for whatever reason.

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Speaker 2: She's I don't canceled, too canceled, She's too canceled.

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Speaker 1: You gotta you know. That's the thing too, is that

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Speaker 1: I feel like Jacks and Kristen were just so they

381
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Speaker 1: were just such the generators of the drama.

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00:21:35,840 --> 00:21:36,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, for so.

383
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Speaker 1: Long that it felt like they like there was no

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Speaker 1: way they weren't gonna have their perspective be heard, Like

385
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Speaker 1: they were just ready to jump in at any time.

386
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Speaker 3: Oh, Jack's was the fucking master of things are going well,

387
00:21:52,440 --> 00:21:55,119
Speaker 3: it's like clear sees, I'm just gonna drop in this

388
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Speaker 3: nugget of something that I might have heard or might

389
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Speaker 3: know that. You know that Tom was fucking someone in

390
00:22:00,880 --> 00:22:03,320
Speaker 3: Miami as soon as he started dating Arianna, Like he

391
00:22:03,480 --> 00:22:06,920
Speaker 3: just loved to drop a nugget and walk away and watch.

392
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Speaker 2: The world burn. He was truly the master at that.

393
00:22:10,160 --> 00:22:10,360
Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 5: Can I ask you guys a question yes, when so

395
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Speaker 5: you've watched the whole new season. Yes, right up to

396
00:22:15,800 --> 00:22:18,720
Speaker 5: date when you were watching it, Like all this controversy

397
00:22:18,720 --> 00:22:21,680
Speaker 5: aside that we know that has completely happened outside of

398
00:22:21,760 --> 00:22:24,159
Speaker 5: the show as far as has been aired. What do

399
00:22:24,200 --> 00:22:28,880
Speaker 5: you think of the show itself without, you know, because

400
00:22:28,880 --> 00:22:31,520
Speaker 5: it didn't have It doesn't have Kristen, it doesn't have Jack's,

401
00:22:31,560 --> 00:22:33,480
Speaker 5: it doesn't have all these old characters. What do you

402
00:22:33,520 --> 00:22:36,600
Speaker 5: think of the show itself as it currently stands?

403
00:22:36,960 --> 00:22:41,120
Speaker 3: I think well, out of two minds, one, I think

404
00:22:41,160 --> 00:22:45,440
Speaker 3: they are editing. Their editing of the show is designed

405
00:22:45,960 --> 00:22:48,520
Speaker 3: to let us know that there's something coming, like the

406
00:22:48,560 --> 00:22:52,520
Speaker 3: way they are editing Arianna and Raquel is designed to

407
00:22:52,600 --> 00:22:55,760
Speaker 3: let us know there's something on the horizon. But I

408
00:22:55,880 --> 00:23:00,399
Speaker 3: also feel like this is the most boring cast, Like

409
00:23:00,440 --> 00:23:04,200
Speaker 3: they've just become boring people. They all have modern farmhouses

410
00:23:04,200 --> 00:23:07,480
Speaker 3: in Valley Village, or they're James, who's like still doing

411
00:23:07,520 --> 00:23:10,560
Speaker 3: his see you next Tuesday. James has weirdly become my

412
00:23:10,680 --> 00:23:12,080
Speaker 3: favorite this season.

413
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Speaker 5: I love James Kenny. I mean, he's a bad person,

414
00:23:16,680 --> 00:23:19,359
Speaker 5: he's a mess. He is so funny, he.

415
00:23:19,440 --> 00:23:20,440
Speaker 2: Is high comedy.

416
00:23:20,560 --> 00:23:23,240
Speaker 3: But yeah, I think that without this there's kind of

417
00:23:23,240 --> 00:23:26,119
Speaker 3: a lot of manufactured drama happened, like sheen is wedding drama.

418
00:23:26,160 --> 00:23:28,080
Speaker 3: I'm like, this isn't drama. This is just Katie being

419
00:23:28,119 --> 00:23:30,320
Speaker 3: a bitch, and you know she's a bitch. Yeah, so

420
00:23:30,840 --> 00:23:34,400
Speaker 3: fucking move on, get your bridesmaid another room somewhere because

421
00:23:34,440 --> 00:23:36,280
Speaker 3: she's not going to give it. Like, it's just weird,

422
00:23:36,840 --> 00:23:39,639
Speaker 3: manufactured drama. And if it wasn't for what we know

423
00:23:39,800 --> 00:23:42,720
Speaker 3: is coming, it would just be watching Katie be a

424
00:23:42,760 --> 00:23:46,639
Speaker 3: bitch to everyone because she's getting divorced and using that

425
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Speaker 3: as her basis for being a horrible person.

426
00:23:49,520 --> 00:23:53,800
Speaker 1: Yeah. I actually think that they're moving into their Who's

427
00:23:53,840 --> 00:23:56,840
Speaker 1: Afraid of Virginia wolf Face as a cast and as

428
00:23:56,880 --> 00:24:03,600
Speaker 1: a show, Like I feel like all all of their past,

429
00:24:03,960 --> 00:24:06,560
Speaker 1: like their entire pasts are now coming home to roosts,

430
00:24:06,560 --> 00:24:09,359
Speaker 1: like all of the partying and all of the crap

431
00:24:09,440 --> 00:24:12,720
Speaker 1: that they now they're fucking real adults and they're all

432
00:24:12,800 --> 00:24:15,320
Speaker 1: divorced and they all have lawsuits and they're all like,

433
00:24:15,640 --> 00:24:21,920
Speaker 1: you know, there, they've become like sort of like now

434
00:24:23,600 --> 00:24:27,080
Speaker 1: the dark side, the actual dark side of like all

435
00:24:27,119 --> 00:24:29,280
Speaker 1: of the shit that they were up to in their

436
00:24:29,280 --> 00:24:34,119
Speaker 1: twenties and I think that that's a more interesting show.

437
00:24:34,320 --> 00:24:37,880
Speaker 1: I mean, it is fun to see young people make mistakes,

438
00:24:37,880 --> 00:24:40,359
Speaker 1: I guess, and to you know, fight in parking lots

439
00:24:40,359 --> 00:24:44,760
Speaker 1: and like get blasted. But it's also like now it's real,

440
00:24:45,359 --> 00:24:47,760
Speaker 1: and like for some reason, I'm like, huh, this is

441
00:24:47,840 --> 00:24:51,679
Speaker 1: actually kind of interesting. Like just this scene of like

442
00:24:53,280 --> 00:25:00,760
Speaker 1: Katie's divorce party with two people there after every everybody left,

443
00:25:01,119 --> 00:25:06,760
Speaker 1: and she's got this stack of bespoke solo cups for

444
00:25:06,840 --> 00:25:10,320
Speaker 1: her divorce party that are going unused because everybody has

445
00:25:10,440 --> 00:25:15,800
Speaker 1: left her party. Oh to me, like the shit, Like

446
00:25:15,800 --> 00:25:19,960
Speaker 1: I'm like, yes, like this ship is dark as fuck

447
00:25:20,040 --> 00:25:23,479
Speaker 1: and I'm kind of here for it. But then yeah,

448
00:25:23,720 --> 00:25:26,879
Speaker 1: I'm that that's I might be like of a party

449
00:25:26,920 --> 00:25:29,320
Speaker 1: of one in the most people are like god, this

450
00:25:29,400 --> 00:25:31,520
Speaker 1: is boring a shit, but I'm like, yes, now they're

451
00:25:31,560 --> 00:25:33,320
Speaker 1: crumbling and I'm kind of loving it.

452
00:25:33,359 --> 00:25:36,080
Speaker 3: But no, I actually I'm gonna tape back what I

453
00:25:36,080 --> 00:25:38,760
Speaker 3: said a little bit because I agree with that. I

454
00:25:38,800 --> 00:25:41,760
Speaker 3: agree that the darker version of these people is more interesting.

455
00:25:41,920 --> 00:25:44,399
Speaker 3: I think that what I'm what I I think, what

456
00:25:44,480 --> 00:25:46,920
Speaker 3: I was referring to is more that they they are

457
00:25:46,960 --> 00:25:50,359
Speaker 3: no longer doing the drama they're just who they are now.

458
00:25:50,520 --> 00:25:54,399
Speaker 3: So like Sena is a hyperactive, like Chihuahua of a

459
00:25:54,440 --> 00:25:59,280
Speaker 3: person about any small, any any minor inconvenience, She's gonna

460
00:25:59,280 --> 00:26:03,840
Speaker 3: go to twelve. Katie's absolute fucking bitch and she always

461
00:26:03,840 --> 00:26:05,919
Speaker 3: has been. And I usually love a bitch like I

462
00:26:05,960 --> 00:26:08,920
Speaker 3: love a bitch, but Katie is a miserable bit.

463
00:26:10,200 --> 00:26:12,760
Speaker 1: But she's such a beta, do you know what I mean?

464
00:26:12,880 --> 00:26:17,680
Speaker 1: Like she's she is so ready to follow the mean

465
00:26:17,800 --> 00:26:21,040
Speaker 1: popular girl, like she just like where is my Regina George?

466
00:26:21,119 --> 00:26:23,960
Speaker 1: I need to follow her anywhere? That's why she's still

467
00:26:24,000 --> 00:26:26,359
Speaker 1: hanging out with her friend. What's her fuck like?

468
00:26:26,400 --> 00:26:30,040
Speaker 5: From Christine Kelly lip bohm queen y, Yeah.

469
00:26:29,880 --> 00:26:32,320
Speaker 2: Thank you for saying that, Like what does Christine Kelly do?

470
00:26:32,840 --> 00:26:34,080
Speaker 2: What does she actually do?

471
00:26:34,280 --> 00:26:36,560
Speaker 5: I just want to say it's Christina Kelly. I misspoke.

472
00:26:36,680 --> 00:26:38,320
Speaker 5: Christina Kelly is the friend's name.

473
00:26:38,840 --> 00:26:40,640
Speaker 3: But yeah, that's why she has her friend because that's

474
00:26:40,640 --> 00:26:42,600
Speaker 3: someone she can be an asshole with.

475
00:26:43,200 --> 00:26:45,239
Speaker 1: Well and like it to me is sort of like

476
00:26:46,560 --> 00:26:49,879
Speaker 1: knowing now that she is like one of La LA's

477
00:26:49,920 --> 00:26:53,840
Speaker 1: henchmen type of things, after she was fat shamed by

478
00:26:53,920 --> 00:26:56,080
Speaker 1: La La for like one hundred years.

479
00:26:55,640 --> 00:26:59,119
Speaker 3: Is like yep, and she like to Stacey's henchman, and

480
00:26:59,160 --> 00:27:01,520
Speaker 3: then she was like she's you're absolutely correct about that.

481
00:27:02,240 --> 00:27:05,360
Speaker 2: But I love it. I love seeing James.

482
00:27:05,440 --> 00:27:08,720
Speaker 3: Is so on one he's like, yeah, I'm drinking again,

483
00:27:08,840 --> 00:27:10,920
Speaker 3: what of it? Yeah, I'm gonna call these people out.

484
00:27:11,080 --> 00:27:13,159
Speaker 3: Yeah I'm sad that I'm not in the group as

485
00:27:13,200 --> 00:27:17,119
Speaker 3: much as Raquel. Like he's just all emotion this season

486
00:27:17,160 --> 00:27:19,800
Speaker 3: and I fucking love it, and he's making fun of himself.

487
00:27:19,840 --> 00:27:21,600
Speaker 2: But he's also very funny.

488
00:27:22,200 --> 00:27:25,200
Speaker 5: James has an awareness that is unprecedented on that show,

489
00:27:25,280 --> 00:27:27,719
Speaker 5: Like he has an awareness of the show, of the

490
00:27:27,760 --> 00:27:32,359
Speaker 5: greater culture, yes, and of the interpersonal relationships on the show,

491
00:27:32,359 --> 00:27:36,080
Speaker 5: and he uses he says things that are so concise

492
00:27:36,200 --> 00:27:40,040
Speaker 5: and mean and funny that it just it really shocks me.

493
00:27:40,359 --> 00:27:40,560
Speaker 1: Yeah.

494
00:27:40,640 --> 00:27:43,080
Speaker 3: But yeah, James is like very British in that way

495
00:27:43,480 --> 00:27:46,040
Speaker 3: where he's like, I'm gonna level you with one comment.

496
00:27:46,440 --> 00:27:50,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, I was gonna say there's no niceties about him.

497
00:27:50,600 --> 00:27:53,320
Speaker 1: He doesn't, he didn't know how to how to do that.

498
00:27:53,640 --> 00:27:56,439
Speaker 1: So I mean I have to say, like, there's a

499
00:27:56,440 --> 00:28:00,200
Speaker 1: part of me that will watch the show if it's

500
00:28:00,200 --> 00:28:03,440
Speaker 1: on for twenty five years. And then there's a part

501
00:28:03,440 --> 00:28:06,960
Speaker 1: of me that's like this needs to die, and I

502
00:28:07,000 --> 00:28:09,239
Speaker 1: and I'm and I'm also like I waive her back

503
00:28:09,280 --> 00:28:12,040
Speaker 1: and forth whether or not I think Lisa needs to

504
00:28:12,200 --> 00:28:15,520
Speaker 1: I mean, she seems to be at least less doing

505
00:28:15,600 --> 00:28:18,080
Speaker 1: her shtick this season than in the past, because it

506
00:28:18,200 --> 00:28:19,160
Speaker 1: was like really sad.

507
00:28:19,520 --> 00:28:20,720
Speaker 2: Oh my god. There was one season.

508
00:28:20,720 --> 00:28:22,840
Speaker 3: Do you remember that season where she was fucking like

509
00:28:23,680 --> 00:28:27,280
Speaker 3: ziplining over Las Vegas. Yes, I was out. I'm like,

510
00:28:27,640 --> 00:28:30,960
Speaker 3: you're Lisa vander Pum. You don't need to do this, Yes.

511
00:28:31,359 --> 00:28:34,560
Speaker 1: Like she just needs to go come in every couple episodes,

512
00:28:34,640 --> 00:28:37,719
Speaker 1: collect the respect, everybody kisses the ring, and then she

513
00:28:37,800 --> 00:28:41,080
Speaker 1: can go like I don't like her kind of narrating

514
00:28:41,160 --> 00:28:44,840
Speaker 1: her own like look at my ponies, aren't they all

515
00:28:45,000 --> 00:28:48,480
Speaker 1: so randy? Like that whole thing is just like.

516
00:28:50,240 --> 00:28:53,120
Speaker 3: Well, at least this is not on Beverly Hills anymore, right,

517
00:28:53,560 --> 00:28:56,120
Speaker 3: So this is like her only vehicle is her own show.

518
00:28:56,880 --> 00:29:00,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, but she can't play like these are not these

519
00:29:00,600 --> 00:29:02,280
Speaker 1: are older ponies.

520
00:29:02,320 --> 00:29:02,480
Speaker 2: Now.

521
00:29:02,560 --> 00:29:04,920
Speaker 1: You can't expect them to put on the old razzal

522
00:29:05,000 --> 00:29:08,400
Speaker 1: dazzle like they're fucking They've got like custody battles and

523
00:29:09,920 --> 00:29:13,160
Speaker 1: they're you know, full blown attics. Some of them like

524
00:29:13,400 --> 00:29:17,840
Speaker 1: they's hired divorces. Like you can't just be like, aren't

525
00:29:17,880 --> 00:29:21,280
Speaker 1: they so bad? It's like, no, they're suffering the consequences

526
00:29:21,280 --> 00:29:22,400
Speaker 1: of that badness right now.

527
00:29:22,520 --> 00:29:25,960
Speaker 2: Oh Lalla cries every episode now anything she.

528
00:29:28,160 --> 00:29:31,760
Speaker 1: Her podcast was We're gonna have to probably cut this,

529
00:29:31,960 --> 00:29:34,760
Speaker 1: but you know, she's in our category, and I'm all,

530
00:29:34,920 --> 00:29:37,000
Speaker 1: every week I look at the fucking charts and I'm like,

531
00:29:37,040 --> 00:29:39,160
Speaker 1: are we doing better than give them La La? I

532
00:29:39,200 --> 00:29:42,720
Speaker 1: need to know we're not anymore because everybody's listening to

533
00:29:42,760 --> 00:29:46,560
Speaker 1: her fucking podcast because of this fucking drama, including me,

534
00:29:46,920 --> 00:29:50,000
Speaker 1: And I was like, I'm listening to give them La Lah, Like,

535
00:29:50,080 --> 00:29:53,760
Speaker 1: what the fuck is wrong with me? I'm working against

536
00:29:53,760 --> 00:29:57,560
Speaker 1: my own interests in our category, our own podcast.

537
00:29:57,080 --> 00:30:07,240
Speaker 3: Success, including me, Like I, well, I cannot wait for

538
00:30:07,280 --> 00:30:08,040
Speaker 3: this reunion.

539
00:30:08,440 --> 00:30:11,640
Speaker 2: I have heard the gossip about the reunion.

540
00:30:11,720 --> 00:30:13,320
Speaker 3: I don't want to believe it. I just I think

541
00:30:13,360 --> 00:30:16,200
Speaker 3: that we've been going about this for a bit. But

542
00:30:16,240 --> 00:30:18,160
Speaker 3: I also just want to get your opinion. I want

543
00:30:18,160 --> 00:30:25,440
Speaker 3: a round table. One thing, the house Tom and Arianna's house,

544
00:30:25,640 --> 00:30:29,480
Speaker 3: which she took out a second mortgage on to pay

545
00:30:29,520 --> 00:30:33,280
Speaker 3: for that fucking Schwartz and Sandy's bar, not even her

546
00:30:33,320 --> 00:30:37,120
Speaker 3: own sandwich shop, took out a second mortgage for him.

547
00:30:37,840 --> 00:30:40,640
Speaker 3: How should this house thing be resolved? How do you

548
00:30:40,680 --> 00:30:41,680
Speaker 3: think it should be resolved?

549
00:30:42,520 --> 00:30:43,520
Speaker 1: I feel like.

550
00:30:45,000 --> 00:30:47,360
Speaker 5: Tom Sanval one of his most toxic traits is that

551
00:30:47,400 --> 00:30:49,760
Speaker 5: he doesn't take accountability for the things he did wrong,

552
00:30:49,800 --> 00:30:54,800
Speaker 5: and he's always the victim in everything, and so he'll

553
00:30:54,800 --> 00:30:57,680
Speaker 5: never do this. But he should give Arianna the house

554
00:30:57,920 --> 00:31:01,520
Speaker 5: or and he should just move back to you know,

555
00:31:01,680 --> 00:31:04,480
Speaker 5: his a bachelor pad in West Hollywood. That would be

556
00:31:04,480 --> 00:31:06,960
Speaker 5: the healthy Yeah, that's that, That would be the healthy

557
00:31:07,040 --> 00:31:07,479
Speaker 5: thing to do.

558
00:31:07,560 --> 00:31:09,880
Speaker 2: But she owns so much of that house.

559
00:31:10,400 --> 00:31:15,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, I say burn it. I think it's cursed. It's definitely,

560
00:31:15,320 --> 00:31:20,600
Speaker 1: it's on cursed ground, like from pet cemetery. I I

561
00:31:20,760 --> 00:31:24,440
Speaker 1: can't like to me, there's probably been so much, I mean,

562
00:31:24,520 --> 00:31:27,400
Speaker 1: the pool parties alone. They should just burn that shit

563
00:31:27,480 --> 00:31:30,640
Speaker 1: down to the ground. Let her collect the insurance. You know,

564
00:31:31,000 --> 00:31:34,960
Speaker 1: it's like one less fake barn in Valley Village right exactly.

565
00:31:35,920 --> 00:31:36,680
Speaker 1: But it's cursed.

566
00:31:37,280 --> 00:31:40,600
Speaker 2: I think it is cursed. But I also think Tom

567
00:31:40,640 --> 00:31:44,560
Speaker 2: should move out and get nothing. He should just go.

568
00:31:45,520 --> 00:31:48,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, I agree, Arianna should own the house, and then

569
00:31:48,560 --> 00:31:51,040
Speaker 3: she should sell the house and use all the money

570
00:31:51,080 --> 00:31:55,320
Speaker 3: she gets to set herself up for in perpetuity.

571
00:31:55,840 --> 00:31:57,680
Speaker 5: Yeah, to open her sandwich shop.

572
00:31:57,760 --> 00:32:02,280
Speaker 3: Open her shop, invest in herself. Absolutely, he should just go,

573
00:32:02,520 --> 00:32:06,000
Speaker 3: just go quietly. I know all your businesses are failing now, Tom,

574
00:32:06,240 --> 00:32:08,440
Speaker 3: I know you ain't got shit to stand on. And

575
00:32:08,480 --> 00:32:13,400
Speaker 3: your mom invested two hundred and fifty thousand dollars that.

576
00:32:13,560 --> 00:32:15,719
Speaker 1: I hated that.

577
00:32:14,880 --> 00:32:16,600
Speaker 5: That made me sick.

578
00:32:17,200 --> 00:32:20,240
Speaker 1: Did you ever did either of you ever eat there

579
00:32:20,280 --> 00:32:24,320
Speaker 1: before it was Schwarts and Sandy's No, No I did,

580
00:32:25,000 --> 00:32:28,800
Speaker 1: And uh, it doesn't look all that different. I'm like, Oh,

581
00:32:28,800 --> 00:32:31,240
Speaker 1: we just put up some palm tree wallpaper.

582
00:32:31,560 --> 00:32:33,720
Speaker 3: They're spending so much time being like it's in the

583
00:32:33,760 --> 00:32:35,760
Speaker 3: details and we have to design a sound bath that

584
00:32:35,800 --> 00:32:37,560
Speaker 3: I'm like, it looks like a fucking restaurant.

585
00:32:37,600 --> 00:32:39,520
Speaker 2: How about you just open it? Just open it.

586
00:32:40,000 --> 00:32:42,520
Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, but that's the thing is that it's that's

587
00:32:42,560 --> 00:32:47,120
Speaker 1: the that's their contribution is, you know, the vibe.

588
00:32:47,240 --> 00:32:49,280
Speaker 5: It did make me laugh when Lisa vander Pump was

589
00:32:49,280 --> 00:32:51,320
Speaker 5: making fun of their decor when she has like the

590
00:32:51,360 --> 00:32:54,880
Speaker 5: most gaudy, hideous taste.

591
00:32:55,280 --> 00:32:59,440
Speaker 2: I have eaten at phili Blanca you have.

592
00:32:59,720 --> 00:33:02,360
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, that's the only one I've never been to.

593
00:33:02,840 --> 00:33:09,000
Speaker 3: And it felt like I was inside Liberaci's tomb, Like

594
00:33:09,080 --> 00:33:10,840
Speaker 3: the design sense is not there.

595
00:33:11,560 --> 00:33:12,800
Speaker 2: It's not what you think it is.

596
00:33:13,240 --> 00:33:15,920
Speaker 1: Well, and that's why that's what I think is secretly

597
00:33:16,440 --> 00:33:18,960
Speaker 1: is what's gonna happen is that now that she has

598
00:33:19,000 --> 00:33:22,959
Speaker 1: all these like Las Vegas restaurants, they are so aligned

599
00:33:23,080 --> 00:33:25,800
Speaker 1: with that tacky ass fucking taste of hers that she's

600
00:33:25,880 --> 00:33:29,800
Speaker 1: gonna shut down everything else, like compensur or gone, Like

601
00:33:30,200 --> 00:33:32,840
Speaker 1: I actually did hear that they're thinking about shutting Pumped down.

602
00:33:33,120 --> 00:33:36,840
Speaker 1: But it's a thing where I'm like, her taste is

603
00:33:37,440 --> 00:33:42,080
Speaker 1: perfect for Vegas exactly, you know, And that's and that's it,

604
00:33:42,200 --> 00:33:45,720
Speaker 1: Like shut shot all those other places down. No one

605
00:33:45,720 --> 00:33:46,920
Speaker 1: needs them open.

606
00:33:46,760 --> 00:33:49,040
Speaker 3: All of these restaurants that are like a Liberacci, but

607
00:33:49,200 --> 00:33:54,240
Speaker 3: whole restaurant somewhere else, like you're inside an anus of

608
00:33:54,280 --> 00:33:55,760
Speaker 3: a gaudy performer.

609
00:33:56,520 --> 00:33:59,880
Speaker 1: I mean those places were theme parks anyway, Like going

610
00:34:00,160 --> 00:34:03,160
Speaker 1: just sir was going to like a reality show theme park,

611
00:34:03,440 --> 00:34:06,959
Speaker 1: Like nobody went for the food. Everyone's like okay, like

612
00:34:07,440 --> 00:34:10,120
Speaker 1: where's the dull whip in the funnel cakes? Whatever? The

613
00:34:10,200 --> 00:34:12,000
Speaker 1: sur version of that is, and then we're just gonna

614
00:34:12,000 --> 00:34:13,759
Speaker 1: wait and see if any of the cast members show up.

615
00:34:14,160 --> 00:34:16,840
Speaker 2: So rice balls or the goat cheese balls. They go

616
00:34:16,840 --> 00:34:18,200
Speaker 2: for the goat cheese balls.

617
00:34:18,640 --> 00:34:21,040
Speaker 3: But yeah, and also, nobody works there. Where are you

618
00:34:21,080 --> 00:34:23,120
Speaker 3: gonna go see Charlie? Nobody works there.

619
00:34:24,680 --> 00:34:25,759
Speaker 1: They fake work there.

620
00:34:26,760 --> 00:34:28,279
Speaker 3: Some people show up and they're like, we want to

621
00:34:28,280 --> 00:34:30,480
Speaker 3: see the cast. They're like, they don't actually work here,

622
00:34:30,520 --> 00:34:31,960
Speaker 3: they work here on camera only.

623
00:34:32,960 --> 00:34:35,000
Speaker 1: Well, I listen. I had to. I'm glad that you

624
00:34:35,000 --> 00:34:36,760
Speaker 1: guys were here to chop this up with me because

625
00:34:37,040 --> 00:34:40,400
Speaker 1: I was like, besides the group text, nobody else in

626
00:34:40,440 --> 00:34:43,160
Speaker 1: my life really fucking fucked with a vantherm buff and

627
00:34:43,200 --> 00:34:46,680
Speaker 1: I'm like, I'm alone. I'm alone in my interests.

628
00:34:47,000 --> 00:34:49,520
Speaker 2: You know we do, we always will.

629
00:34:49,800 --> 00:34:55,640
Speaker 3: And thank you Casey for truly incredible thoughts and for

630
00:34:55,719 --> 00:34:59,680
Speaker 3: being so invested in this universe with us.

631
00:34:59,680 --> 00:35:00,640
Speaker 5: Thank you you guys.

632
00:35:01,719 --> 00:35:04,480
Speaker 2: We should open a vander Pump channel on our slack.

633
00:35:07,640 --> 00:35:18,000
Speaker 1: It now, do it right now? What about movies?

634
00:35:18,640 --> 00:35:22,480
Speaker 3: Now, to my knowledge, none of the vander Pump universe

635
00:35:22,840 --> 00:35:23,640
Speaker 3: are in movies.

636
00:35:23,680 --> 00:35:25,560
Speaker 2: So should we even still have this podcast?

637
00:35:25,920 --> 00:35:29,080
Speaker 1: Yeah? I think we should just enit. Thanks everybody for listening.

638
00:35:29,120 --> 00:35:32,080
Speaker 1: It's been a pleasure. Oh wait, we have movies.

639
00:35:32,760 --> 00:35:34,239
Speaker 2: We do, we have we have a theme and we

640
00:35:34,239 --> 00:35:34,760
Speaker 2: have movies.

641
00:35:35,000 --> 00:35:40,960
Speaker 1: Actually, I gotta say, the vander Pump World doesn't seem

642
00:35:41,040 --> 00:35:43,759
Speaker 1: too far off from what we'll be discussing this week

643
00:35:43,800 --> 00:35:44,759
Speaker 1: in terms of our theme.

644
00:35:44,880 --> 00:35:45,680
Speaker 2: Right, this is true.

645
00:35:45,800 --> 00:35:48,919
Speaker 1: This is true because let's talk about the theme.

646
00:35:48,960 --> 00:35:51,799
Speaker 3: What is the theme for this week, Danielle. Our theme

647
00:35:51,880 --> 00:35:59,200
Speaker 3: this week is I Chump, Take the Chump, And this.

648
00:35:59,120 --> 00:36:02,920
Speaker 1: Is you clearly came up with the name I. I

649
00:36:03,239 --> 00:36:05,960
Speaker 1: this is like a theme about marriages.

650
00:36:06,440 --> 00:36:09,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I think it's like we I wanted to

651
00:36:09,239 --> 00:36:14,200
Speaker 3: discuss marriage and film, but in a way that felt

652
00:36:14,719 --> 00:36:17,760
Speaker 3: different from what we usually see. Like it's not about

653
00:36:17,800 --> 00:36:21,919
Speaker 3: the cute proposal, it's not about the stressful wedding, it's

654
00:36:21,960 --> 00:36:25,480
Speaker 3: not about the family drama. This is about people who

655
00:36:25,480 --> 00:36:29,160
Speaker 3: have been in a marriage for a bit and are

656
00:36:29,239 --> 00:36:30,239
Speaker 3: maybe not loving it.

657
00:36:30,920 --> 00:36:38,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, like dysfunctional marriages, which is obviously very interesting in

658
00:36:38,239 --> 00:36:40,960
Speaker 1: terms of you know what we just talked about, but

659
00:36:41,000 --> 00:36:44,759
Speaker 1: also just sort of like from a film perspective, because I,

660
00:36:45,480 --> 00:36:49,239
Speaker 1: to me, I feel like these are two probably most

661
00:36:49,239 --> 00:36:54,239
Speaker 1: perfect examples of this topic, right, because they're kind of

662
00:36:54,400 --> 00:36:56,439
Speaker 1: similar in a weird way. I would say it because

663
00:36:56,440 --> 00:37:01,640
Speaker 1: they're both like pretty long. They our producer Casey so

664
00:37:02,040 --> 00:37:06,839
Speaker 1: eloquently put it. He said that they're chamber dramas, which

665
00:37:06,880 --> 00:37:11,600
Speaker 1: I totally agree. So basically like a contained story with

666
00:37:11,800 --> 00:37:19,440
Speaker 1: only very few principal actors, right, And although they were,

667
00:37:19,800 --> 00:37:21,839
Speaker 1: they weren't like too far off from each other like

668
00:37:22,400 --> 00:37:27,399
Speaker 1: late sixties, early seventies. But there's also like different differences

669
00:37:27,719 --> 00:37:31,080
Speaker 1: within them in terms of like how the marriages are

670
00:37:31,120 --> 00:37:34,920
Speaker 1: playing out and the other people that are drawn into

671
00:37:34,960 --> 00:37:39,879
Speaker 1: the drama. And I personally think that this is an

672
00:37:39,960 --> 00:37:43,640
Speaker 1: actual great double feature if you can stand, If you

673
00:37:43,800 --> 00:37:49,280
Speaker 1: can stand the high key emotions, it's a perfect double feature.

674
00:37:49,320 --> 00:37:53,319
Speaker 3: And the length, if you have six hours to spare, yes,

675
00:37:53,440 --> 00:37:54,840
Speaker 3: this is the best double.

676
00:37:54,560 --> 00:38:00,799
Speaker 2: Feature we've ever given you, if you have the guts

677
00:38:00,280 --> 00:38:02,799
Speaker 2: to sit through this. Yes.

678
00:38:03,400 --> 00:38:08,759
Speaker 1: I have never been married, obviously, but I'm fascinated by marriage, Like,

679
00:38:08,880 --> 00:38:11,440
Speaker 1: I mean, I see it every day in my life.

680
00:38:11,480 --> 00:38:14,520
Speaker 1: I've talked about it on the podcast, and I mean,

681
00:38:14,560 --> 00:38:17,360
Speaker 1: even though I've never been married, like, these movies actually

682
00:38:17,400 --> 00:38:20,759
Speaker 1: make me really deeply process what a marriage would be.

683
00:38:20,840 --> 00:38:23,400
Speaker 1: Like I mean, I'm just like wow, Like this is a.

684
00:38:24,120 --> 00:38:28,000
Speaker 1: This is a relationship that's very intense, and you know,

685
00:38:28,280 --> 00:38:30,280
Speaker 1: especially if you've been at it for a long time.

686
00:38:30,400 --> 00:38:33,520
Speaker 2: And my God, I have been married.

687
00:38:33,840 --> 00:38:35,800
Speaker 3: And part of the reason I wanted to dig into

688
00:38:36,320 --> 00:38:41,719
Speaker 3: this theme is because I truly question the validity.

689
00:38:41,120 --> 00:38:44,399
Speaker 2: Of marriage in general in the modern world.

690
00:38:44,600 --> 00:38:46,799
Speaker 3: Yeah, and a lot of people say, it's oh, because

691
00:38:46,800 --> 00:38:48,319
Speaker 3: we want to have children, want all our names to

692
00:38:48,320 --> 00:38:52,040
Speaker 3: be together. You can change your name without being married. Yeah,

693
00:38:52,120 --> 00:38:54,400
Speaker 3: you can all have the same last name without being married.

694
00:38:55,440 --> 00:38:58,320
Speaker 3: That's no longer viable. You can be a single parent,

695
00:38:58,360 --> 00:39:00,440
Speaker 3: you can be a blended family, you can be anything

696
00:39:00,480 --> 00:39:06,640
Speaker 3: you want without marriage. So I question the kind of

697
00:39:06,760 --> 00:39:10,359
Speaker 3: impulse that people have to do it after they've been

698
00:39:10,360 --> 00:39:12,359
Speaker 3: together for a while or whatever. And I say that

699
00:39:12,400 --> 00:39:15,600
Speaker 3: as someone who and I don't talk about him a

700
00:39:15,600 --> 00:39:18,520
Speaker 3: lot because I do respect his privacy. But I was

701
00:39:19,680 --> 00:39:23,760
Speaker 3: my ex husband and I dated for eight years before

702
00:39:23,800 --> 00:39:27,960
Speaker 3: we got married, and then we were married for two years, and.

703
00:39:29,280 --> 00:39:34,680
Speaker 2: I think getting married ruined our relationship in a weird

704
00:39:34,719 --> 00:39:37,400
Speaker 2: way that I will maybe one day right about. But

705
00:39:37,719 --> 00:39:38,600
Speaker 2: it just wasn't for me.

706
00:39:39,800 --> 00:39:44,279
Speaker 3: And I just don't think I just don't think it's

707
00:39:44,320 --> 00:39:47,800
Speaker 3: it's a viable option. For me, I think that again,

708
00:39:47,840 --> 00:39:50,480
Speaker 3: you can have a great, long life and long relationship

709
00:39:50,480 --> 00:39:53,920
Speaker 3: with someone without having to recognize it legally. But I

710
00:39:53,920 --> 00:39:56,480
Speaker 3: think a lot of people do because there's tax breaks,

711
00:39:56,480 --> 00:39:58,560
Speaker 3: and there's kids, and there's all kinds of stuff. Or

712
00:39:58,600 --> 00:40:01,160
Speaker 3: maybe it's just because they're modeling and mirroring the family

713
00:40:01,200 --> 00:40:02,680
Speaker 3: they grew up in and they want to kind of

714
00:40:02,840 --> 00:40:05,840
Speaker 3: they think it was valuable they didn't have a monster family,

715
00:40:06,120 --> 00:40:08,200
Speaker 3: and they want to kind of replicate the good things.

716
00:40:08,280 --> 00:40:09,160
Speaker 2: I don't know, but.

717
00:40:09,120 --> 00:40:12,440
Speaker 3: I truly questioned the validity of marriage in a modern world,

718
00:40:12,760 --> 00:40:15,880
Speaker 3: especially when we still live in a world where some

719
00:40:15,960 --> 00:40:19,200
Speaker 3: people can't either can't get married or get married and

720
00:40:19,239 --> 00:40:22,279
Speaker 3: don't have the same rise that a straight couple would have.

721
00:40:22,880 --> 00:40:25,239
Speaker 1: Yeah, well no, And that's interesting too, because you know,

722
00:40:25,440 --> 00:40:28,000
Speaker 1: like I said, both of these movies take place a

723
00:40:28,040 --> 00:40:31,080
Speaker 1: long time ago, like many, many many years ago, where

724
00:40:31,120 --> 00:40:35,320
Speaker 1: I think marriage felt more like a necessity for certain people,

725
00:40:35,400 --> 00:40:38,520
Speaker 1: and it was a lot of like economic, you know,

726
00:40:38,680 --> 00:40:42,320
Speaker 1: circumstances going on for certain people, whereas I think that's

727
00:40:42,880 --> 00:40:44,080
Speaker 1: changed a lot.

728
00:40:44,800 --> 00:40:47,480
Speaker 3: Well, this is part of the primary issue with the

729
00:40:47,520 --> 00:40:50,680
Speaker 3: second wave feminist movement that I think got the reason

730
00:40:50,680 --> 00:40:53,239
Speaker 3: it got a lot of backlash from men is because

731
00:40:53,280 --> 00:40:55,719
Speaker 3: it offered true freedom to women to not have to

732
00:40:55,719 --> 00:41:00,120
Speaker 3: get married to be considered functioning real people in our world. Ye,

733
00:41:00,520 --> 00:41:02,480
Speaker 3: Like they can now get credit cards on their own,

734
00:41:02,520 --> 00:41:04,120
Speaker 3: they can get home loans on their own. They could

735
00:41:04,160 --> 00:41:06,120
Speaker 3: like live a life without having to have a man's

736
00:41:06,120 --> 00:41:09,160
Speaker 3: side off on it. And men freaked the fuck out

737
00:41:09,280 --> 00:41:10,080
Speaker 3: when that happened.

738
00:41:11,600 --> 00:41:13,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that kind of sort of plays out

739
00:41:13,560 --> 00:41:16,200
Speaker 1: in my movie a little bit. But I'm just excited

740
00:41:16,239 --> 00:41:20,319
Speaker 1: about this. I mean, these are two like very important

741
00:41:21,080 --> 00:41:27,160
Speaker 1: trademark capital letters films, and like, these are two films

742
00:41:27,160 --> 00:41:30,840
Speaker 1: that people, you know, cinophiles, people who love film, have

743
00:41:30,920 --> 00:41:33,600
Speaker 1: talked about forever and ever and ever, and I think

744
00:41:33,680 --> 00:41:36,520
Speaker 1: they pay the way for a lot of like modern

745
00:41:36,600 --> 00:41:41,480
Speaker 1: directors too. So I am excited. I think I'm going first, You.

746
00:41:41,480 --> 00:41:43,759
Speaker 2: Are going first. Let's get into it.

747
00:41:44,440 --> 00:41:48,919
Speaker 1: Yes, let us get into it. So my movie for

748
00:41:49,000 --> 00:41:56,200
Speaker 1: the theme, I Chump Take the Chump is a movie

749
00:41:56,200 --> 00:41:59,280
Speaker 1: from nineteen seventy four, written and directed by Igmar Bergmann,

750
00:41:59,280 --> 00:42:04,399
Speaker 1: and it's called c from a Marriage Who I must

751
00:42:04,520 --> 00:42:08,399
Speaker 1: tell him that I'm not dad Ingmar Bergmann. I feel

752
00:42:08,400 --> 00:42:11,320
Speaker 1: like this is the first have we done Anigmar bergmany

753
00:42:11,360 --> 00:42:14,600
Speaker 1: movie on this podcast, we have not. I think I

754
00:42:14,760 --> 00:42:18,160
Speaker 1: talked about Persona once, like when we did that episode

755
00:42:18,160 --> 00:42:21,360
Speaker 1: about three women. Yes, I said it was like extra credit,

756
00:42:21,440 --> 00:42:25,919
Speaker 1: but I don't think we did a full episode, right, Okay, okay, Well,

757
00:42:27,320 --> 00:42:29,320
Speaker 1: much like a lot of the people that we've talked about,

758
00:42:29,400 --> 00:42:33,640
Speaker 1: these big heavy hitters of cinema, there's a lot of

759
00:42:33,680 --> 00:42:37,720
Speaker 1: information about him in the world, and I can't spend

760
00:42:37,800 --> 00:42:40,080
Speaker 1: a lot of time talking about him, but I mean,

761
00:42:41,120 --> 00:42:46,440
Speaker 1: I can't stress enough how famous he is in terms

762
00:42:46,480 --> 00:42:51,440
Speaker 1: of you know, international directors, like one of the biggest

763
00:42:51,440 --> 00:42:57,480
Speaker 1: figures in world cinema. He's a filmmaker that probably your

764
00:42:57,640 --> 00:43:03,080
Speaker 1: favorite filmmaker was inspired by. He had a very prolific

765
00:43:03,200 --> 00:43:07,360
Speaker 1: long career, and so if you're at all interested about

766
00:43:07,360 --> 00:43:09,920
Speaker 1: his life, you should definitely look him up or listen

767
00:43:09,920 --> 00:43:12,720
Speaker 1: to other podcasts that have gone like four plus hours

768
00:43:12,719 --> 00:43:16,719
Speaker 1: on him. And you know, I would love to sit

769
00:43:16,760 --> 00:43:18,880
Speaker 1: here and talk about him and dissect him, but you know,

770
00:43:19,280 --> 00:43:21,880
Speaker 1: we're sure we're trying to keep this down to at

771
00:43:21,960 --> 00:43:23,320
Speaker 1: least what a couple hours.

772
00:43:23,600 --> 00:43:25,600
Speaker 3: Oh, we're not doing that today. We're not going to

773
00:43:25,719 --> 00:43:27,440
Speaker 3: turn this into a four or five hour podcast.

774
00:43:27,560 --> 00:43:30,720
Speaker 2: Oh shit, damn, I would have prepped. I would have prepped.

775
00:43:31,360 --> 00:43:34,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, we would have had to have like twelve cups

776
00:43:34,120 --> 00:43:40,160
Speaker 1: of coffee. But so Scenes from a Marriage is interesting

777
00:43:40,280 --> 00:43:45,000
Speaker 1: because it was originally a six part mini series that

778
00:43:45,120 --> 00:43:50,440
Speaker 1: was made for Swedish television in nineteen seventy three, and eventually,

779
00:43:50,800 --> 00:43:54,240
Speaker 1: I think in the next year, it was condensed into

780
00:43:54,320 --> 00:43:58,480
Speaker 1: a theatrical version, which was played in movie theaters, you know,

781
00:43:58,680 --> 00:44:03,799
Speaker 1: kind of everywhere in Europe, been abroad. So essentially the

782
00:44:03,800 --> 00:44:06,400
Speaker 1: theatrical version is just sort of like a shorter version

783
00:44:06,480 --> 00:44:09,040
Speaker 1: of the mini series. So that's why I think in

784
00:44:09,120 --> 00:44:11,280
Speaker 1: last week's episode at the end, I told you guys

785
00:44:11,280 --> 00:44:14,200
Speaker 1: not to watch the show, watch the theatrical version because

786
00:44:14,200 --> 00:44:17,359
Speaker 1: it's just for our purposes. It's just easier to.

787
00:44:17,320 --> 00:44:19,839
Speaker 2: Talk about, right, right, And you know.

788
00:44:21,080 --> 00:44:28,160
Speaker 1: I think Bergmann wrote this, you know, series slash theatrical

789
00:44:28,400 --> 00:44:33,040
Speaker 1: film about the people around him in his life, including

790
00:44:33,120 --> 00:44:38,160
Speaker 1: his parents and you know, including his own marriages and

791
00:44:38,239 --> 00:44:40,880
Speaker 1: the relationship that he had with liv Ullman, who was

792
00:44:41,120 --> 00:44:43,759
Speaker 1: the you know, a female lead in this film. Right,

793
00:44:44,719 --> 00:44:49,320
Speaker 1: So clearly it's like ripped from the headlines in that way.

794
00:44:49,920 --> 00:44:53,880
Speaker 1: And even though this is technically a scripted film. It

795
00:44:54,000 --> 00:45:01,600
Speaker 1: feels much like a cinema verite documentary, like even Live

796
00:45:01,680 --> 00:45:04,200
Speaker 1: Olman herself, Like I read somewhere that she felt like

797
00:45:04,239 --> 00:45:07,399
Speaker 1: she was filming a documentary when they were making this film, right,

798
00:45:08,280 --> 00:45:13,080
Speaker 1: And we see this a lot now, especially like this

799
00:45:13,239 --> 00:45:18,360
Speaker 1: type of style. It's very prevalent even in TV because

800
00:45:18,400 --> 00:45:22,960
Speaker 1: it's this whole film has a very natural style of dialogue,

801
00:45:23,880 --> 00:45:27,239
Speaker 1: and like Casey said, it's like a chamber film. It's

802
00:45:28,320 --> 00:45:32,640
Speaker 1: very hyper focused on these characters, on this couple essentially.

803
00:45:33,400 --> 00:45:38,200
Speaker 1: And this movie was very influential, like this whole series.

804
00:45:38,280 --> 00:45:41,640
Speaker 1: The whole thing was very influential. I mean, I've read

805
00:45:41,880 --> 00:45:45,319
Speaker 1: you know, Richard Linklater, He's talked about it being an

806
00:45:45,320 --> 00:45:49,560
Speaker 1: influence on the Before trilogy. I think there certainly wouldn't

807
00:45:49,560 --> 00:45:52,279
Speaker 1: be a movie like Marriage Story by Noel Bambach if

808
00:45:52,320 --> 00:45:55,360
Speaker 1: it hadn't been for this film. So I feel like

809
00:45:56,080 --> 00:46:00,400
Speaker 1: it's a classic in that way. And I'm gonna do

810
00:46:00,440 --> 00:46:02,840
Speaker 1: a one sentence synopsis of scenes from Marriage.

811
00:46:02,880 --> 00:46:04,080
Speaker 2: Oh bitch.

812
00:46:04,760 --> 00:46:07,800
Speaker 1: I know it was a monumental task, but I'm gonna

813
00:46:07,840 --> 00:46:11,120
Speaker 1: I'm gonna distill it down to this. This movie is

814
00:46:11,160 --> 00:46:15,040
Speaker 1: a painstakingly detailed account of a married couple on the

815
00:46:15,160 --> 00:46:17,000
Speaker 1: verge of total collapse.

816
00:46:17,760 --> 00:46:18,280
Speaker 2: Beautiful.

817
00:46:18,960 --> 00:46:22,600
Speaker 1: Right, Okay, so let me let me just get through

818
00:46:22,719 --> 00:46:25,279
Speaker 1: this part because you've got to know who these characters are.

819
00:46:25,320 --> 00:46:29,719
Speaker 1: So your principals are a married couple named Johan and

820
00:46:29,840 --> 00:46:34,560
Speaker 1: Mary Anne. They're played by the Swedish actors Erlin Josephson

821
00:46:34,760 --> 00:46:39,319
Speaker 1: and liv Ullman. At the beginning of the movie, they

822
00:46:39,320 --> 00:46:44,720
Speaker 1: are being interviewed by a reporter and it almost seems

823
00:46:44,800 --> 00:46:47,120
Speaker 1: like to me they're kind of it's almost like they're

824
00:46:47,160 --> 00:46:49,640
Speaker 1: sitting on the couch from when Harry met Sally in

825
00:46:49,680 --> 00:46:53,520
Speaker 1: a weird way there and basically just talking about how

826
00:46:53,560 --> 00:46:58,239
Speaker 1: great of a couple they are, right, Yeah, And you

827
00:46:58,280 --> 00:47:01,400
Speaker 1: know they're obviously being interviewed by some so they're they're

828
00:47:01,520 --> 00:47:04,800
Speaker 1: kind of the picture of marital success at this point.

829
00:47:05,440 --> 00:47:07,920
Speaker 3: And it's also the only time you see their children,

830
00:47:08,160 --> 00:47:10,600
Speaker 3: Like they talk about their children throughout the film, but

831
00:47:10,600 --> 00:47:12,480
Speaker 3: you only see them in this scene.

832
00:47:13,080 --> 00:47:19,200
Speaker 1: Yes, I I actually think that's great for reasons what

833
00:47:19,360 --> 00:47:21,439
Speaker 1: we we'll get into in a little bit. But I

834
00:47:21,520 --> 00:47:25,160
Speaker 1: that is fascinating to me. You know, basically it's setting

835
00:47:25,200 --> 00:47:28,640
Speaker 1: this setting them up as being this perfect couple. Right.

836
00:47:29,160 --> 00:47:34,200
Speaker 1: Johan is a professor of psychology. Marianne, oddly enough, is

837
00:47:34,239 --> 00:47:38,440
Speaker 1: a divorce lawyer, and so they're very affluent, you know.

838
00:47:38,840 --> 00:47:45,160
Speaker 1: Johan says, we're indecently fortunate, right, and it's true. I

839
00:47:45,200 --> 00:47:48,359
Speaker 1: mean they're they've been together for a decade and at

840
00:47:48,360 --> 00:47:52,520
Speaker 1: this point they seem to be totally enshrilled. They're just comfortable,

841
00:47:53,280 --> 00:47:56,640
Speaker 1: upper middle class white people. It's like they're the picture

842
00:47:56,680 --> 00:48:02,799
Speaker 1: of success, right. And as the movie begins to roll

843
00:48:02,840 --> 00:48:07,120
Speaker 1: out in these like first few minutes, it becomes pretty

844
00:48:07,160 --> 00:48:09,600
Speaker 1: obvious what their dynamic is.

845
00:48:09,920 --> 00:48:10,000
Speaker 3: Like.

846
00:48:11,280 --> 00:48:15,600
Speaker 1: Johann is what I would consider like one of the

847
00:48:15,719 --> 00:48:22,839
Speaker 1: cocky intellectual types. He he knows that he's smarter than you, right.

848
00:48:23,239 --> 00:48:28,320
Speaker 1: He seems like he's got some kind of libertarian tendencies

849
00:48:29,120 --> 00:48:35,040
Speaker 1: at times, like looks wise. If I were going to

850
00:48:35,120 --> 00:48:38,320
Speaker 1: describe him, he's kind of like a Swedish Elliott Gould

851
00:48:38,960 --> 00:48:44,360
Speaker 1: with a beer, you know what I'm saying, Like he's

852
00:48:44,440 --> 00:48:46,040
Speaker 1: kind of got that quality to him.

853
00:48:46,200 --> 00:48:48,200
Speaker 2: An insults Elliott Gould. But I'll take it.

854
00:48:51,040 --> 00:48:53,600
Speaker 1: I just think, you know, prominent facial features, you know,

855
00:48:53,719 --> 00:48:57,440
Speaker 1: kind of like a drinking man's heart throb type.

856
00:48:57,560 --> 00:48:57,759
Speaker 2: Right.

857
00:48:58,239 --> 00:49:02,200
Speaker 1: And then you've got Marianna's wife, she is very much

858
00:49:02,280 --> 00:49:07,440
Speaker 1: the pretty passive woman, right, compassionate, doting, just kind of

859
00:49:07,480 --> 00:49:11,279
Speaker 1: goes along with whatever he says. I mean, we have

860
00:49:11,760 --> 00:49:13,000
Speaker 1: definitely seen this type.

861
00:49:12,840 --> 00:49:14,880
Speaker 2: Of coup before a mistake.

862
00:49:15,160 --> 00:49:17,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, Like when he's describing himself, he's like, I'm confident

863
00:49:18,000 --> 00:49:19,560
Speaker 3: and I'm this, and I'm that. And when it comes

864
00:49:19,560 --> 00:49:21,839
Speaker 3: time for her to describe herself to this interview where

865
00:49:21,880 --> 00:49:25,120
Speaker 3: she's like, I'm a wife and a mother and a

866
00:49:25,160 --> 00:49:27,399
Speaker 3: divorce attorney sometimes but mostly a wife and a mother.

867
00:49:27,880 --> 00:49:29,920
Speaker 3: And the you can tell the interview is trying to

868
00:49:29,960 --> 00:49:31,959
Speaker 3: like drag stuff out of her and she's like, Nope,

869
00:49:31,960 --> 00:49:32,719
Speaker 3: that's all I'm giving you.

870
00:49:32,760 --> 00:49:36,040
Speaker 2: That's who I am, right right, yep.

871
00:49:36,760 --> 00:49:41,640
Speaker 1: So after the sequence, it kind of moves into and,

872
00:49:41,680 --> 00:49:44,320
Speaker 1: like I said, because this was based on a mini series,

873
00:49:44,840 --> 00:49:48,200
Speaker 1: think about it in terms of episodes, right, so like

874
00:49:48,800 --> 00:49:51,640
Speaker 1: you could kind of tell I think that there were

875
00:49:52,880 --> 00:49:56,560
Speaker 1: the story kind of moves like episodic you know, TV,

876
00:49:56,920 --> 00:50:00,759
Speaker 1: but it's just been condensed. So kind of cuts to

877
00:50:00,880 --> 00:50:05,600
Speaker 1: this sequence quickly after this where they have some friends

878
00:50:05,600 --> 00:50:09,080
Speaker 1: over at their place and it's this this other married

879
00:50:09,120 --> 00:50:13,480
Speaker 1: couple named Peter and Katerina who are played by I'm

880
00:50:13,520 --> 00:50:16,359
Speaker 1: gonna butcher this. I hope, I'm I hope I'm not

881
00:50:16,480 --> 00:50:21,440
Speaker 1: doing it too badly. But Jan Malms Joe, I think

882
00:50:21,440 --> 00:50:25,560
Speaker 1: it's Jan mals Joe. Yeah, I'm gonna just let you

883
00:50:25,680 --> 00:50:27,400
Speaker 1: say it. I'm not gonna repeat it.

884
00:50:28,800 --> 00:50:31,719
Speaker 3: Like I'm probably still saying the last name wrong when

885
00:50:31,719 --> 00:50:32,839
Speaker 3: I think the first name is Yan.

886
00:50:33,360 --> 00:50:37,120
Speaker 1: Yes, but he's a very famous Swedish actor. He was

887
00:50:37,120 --> 00:50:40,120
Speaker 1: in the business for a long time. Okay, so he is.

888
00:50:40,280 --> 00:50:44,480
Speaker 1: He's Peter. And then Katerina is played by bb Anderson, who,

889
00:50:44,719 --> 00:50:46,600
Speaker 1: as you know if you were in a Bergmann, she

890
00:50:46,760 --> 00:50:49,120
Speaker 1: was in his company of actors along with Live Olman,

891
00:50:49,239 --> 00:50:51,560
Speaker 1: and she was in persona with Live Oldman, which we

892
00:50:51,600 --> 00:50:55,680
Speaker 1: talked about. So these four are having dinner and drinks

893
00:50:55,719 --> 00:51:01,640
Speaker 1: and then the evening invariably devolves in to Peter and

894
00:51:01,719 --> 00:51:05,280
Speaker 1: Katerina having truly a Who's Afraid of Virginia Wolf style

895
00:51:05,320 --> 00:51:09,640
Speaker 1: blowout with each other about their marriage. Okay, and it's

896
00:51:09,640 --> 00:51:12,880
Speaker 1: all happening in front of their friends. Joan and Marianne

897
00:51:12,880 --> 00:51:16,040
Speaker 1: are watching it go down, and they're like, oh shit,

898
00:51:16,239 --> 00:51:19,280
Speaker 1: because like the barbs are flying. It's nasty.

899
00:51:19,480 --> 00:51:21,480
Speaker 3: I mean, if you're at a dinner party and one

900
00:51:21,520 --> 00:51:25,279
Speaker 3: of your friends says to their partner, I need to

901
00:51:25,520 --> 00:51:28,400
Speaker 3: wash you out of my genitals. It is time to

902
00:51:28,520 --> 00:51:32,640
Speaker 3: just like rinse the coffee cups and send everybody home.

903
00:51:34,360 --> 00:51:38,520
Speaker 1: Have you ever been in this situation before where you've

904
00:51:38,600 --> 00:51:41,959
Speaker 1: watched like people fighting in this way.

905
00:51:42,920 --> 00:51:46,520
Speaker 2: Absolutely, I have been the watcher and I've been the fighter.

906
00:51:47,200 --> 00:51:48,960
Speaker 1: Ooh interesting.

907
00:51:49,239 --> 00:51:52,879
Speaker 3: It is uncomfortable in both instances, like not to this

908
00:51:53,000 --> 00:51:56,480
Speaker 3: level of like insult, but I have been like in

909
00:51:56,520 --> 00:51:59,600
Speaker 3: relationships where oh, we're having an argument and then we

910
00:51:59,640 --> 00:52:02,520
Speaker 3: have to go do something public facing, but we're still

911
00:52:02,520 --> 00:52:04,520
Speaker 3: pissed at each other, so we're just being like really

912
00:52:05,040 --> 00:52:09,919
Speaker 3: slyly nasty and short. But being around the couple that's

913
00:52:09,960 --> 00:52:14,560
Speaker 3: fighting is very awkward because, like, especially in this film

914
00:52:14,600 --> 00:52:17,560
Speaker 3: where they present it as well, there are good friends

915
00:52:17,560 --> 00:52:19,120
Speaker 3: we can tell them.

916
00:52:19,400 --> 00:52:21,879
Speaker 2: And I'm like, oh, but should you? You cunt? You can,

917
00:52:21,960 --> 00:52:23,960
Speaker 2: but should you? Is this the time and place for this?

918
00:52:24,640 --> 00:52:29,359
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's so funny because I've I've I've witnessed it too,

919
00:52:30,239 --> 00:52:34,440
Speaker 1: and I always reference this movie and your movie like

920
00:52:34,480 --> 00:52:37,520
Speaker 1: I'm always like, oh, girl, Like I was over at

921
00:52:38,000 --> 00:52:40,359
Speaker 1: Peter and Katrina's house the other night, and man, it

922
00:52:40,400 --> 00:52:43,239
Speaker 1: was a real like scenes from a marriage. Who's afraid

923
00:52:43,280 --> 00:52:47,040
Speaker 1: of Jeni Wolf's scene? Ah, you know, like it's it's

924
00:52:47,160 --> 00:52:52,720
Speaker 1: become like the reference point. Yeah, the shorthand reference point

925
00:52:52,760 --> 00:52:55,920
Speaker 1: for being in an awkward situation with a couple.

926
00:52:56,239 --> 00:52:57,879
Speaker 2: I love it, you know, like.

927
00:52:57,840 --> 00:52:59,960
Speaker 1: The dirty laundry is just being aired and you're like,

928
00:53:00,080 --> 00:53:02,040
Speaker 1: I'm sitting here, I can't do anything. This is so

929
00:53:02,120 --> 00:53:02,640
Speaker 1: fucked up.

930
00:53:03,840 --> 00:53:06,040
Speaker 3: It is so awkward, and I think I feel like

931
00:53:06,080 --> 00:53:08,080
Speaker 3: I've reached a point in my life where I don't

932
00:53:08,120 --> 00:53:11,680
Speaker 3: have those friends anymore, Like I can't deal with it.

933
00:53:11,920 --> 00:53:14,520
Speaker 3: So if I recognize that you're in like a part

934
00:53:14,560 --> 00:53:17,480
Speaker 3: of a couple that is constantly fighting, I am not

935
00:53:17,520 --> 00:53:18,600
Speaker 3: hanging out with you that much.

936
00:53:19,280 --> 00:53:19,760
Speaker 2: Yeah.

937
00:53:19,920 --> 00:53:21,960
Speaker 1: I feel like most people who have gotten to that

938
00:53:22,000 --> 00:53:25,320
Speaker 1: fear piss are now divorced and they're just living separate

939
00:53:25,360 --> 00:53:29,880
Speaker 1: lives and taking art classes and being on their own. So,

940
00:53:30,000 --> 00:53:34,520
Speaker 1: you know, this is an interesting sort of reference point

941
00:53:34,560 --> 00:53:37,040
Speaker 1: for the film because it's like, here have this couple

942
00:53:37,080 --> 00:53:39,280
Speaker 1: who has just been set up as this perfect couple.

943
00:53:39,600 --> 00:53:43,600
Speaker 1: Then they're watching pretty much everybody around them kind of

944
00:53:44,120 --> 00:53:47,080
Speaker 1: make them question what they're doing. So you've got their

945
00:53:47,200 --> 00:53:50,400
Speaker 1: their friends who are fighting. Then the next day Marianne,

946
00:53:50,719 --> 00:53:53,960
Speaker 1: who is again a divorce lawyer. She meets with an

947
00:53:54,239 --> 00:53:56,759
Speaker 1: an older woman who comes to her and says, I

948
00:53:56,840 --> 00:54:02,800
Speaker 1: want a divorce, and they have this conversation basically Marianna

949
00:54:02,880 --> 00:54:06,040
Speaker 1: shook by. She's basically like, uh, well, here's a woman

950
00:54:06,080 --> 00:54:08,759
Speaker 1: who's probably twenty years older than me who's basically like,

951
00:54:09,200 --> 00:54:12,160
Speaker 1: the love is gone, I want out, and you know,

952
00:54:12,280 --> 00:54:13,440
Speaker 1: maybe we will start turning.

953
00:54:13,800 --> 00:54:16,200
Speaker 3: That was a riveting scene, and it's not just because

954
00:54:16,239 --> 00:54:19,920
Speaker 3: it was kind of prophetic, but I think that at

955
00:54:19,920 --> 00:54:23,360
Speaker 3: one point, she mentions that she wanted to leave five

956
00:54:23,520 --> 00:54:27,440
Speaker 3: years into her twenty year marriage. Wow, like she just

957
00:54:27,520 --> 00:54:30,560
Speaker 3: hung out for fifteen years because her husband said, well,

958
00:54:30,600 --> 00:54:32,600
Speaker 3: wait for the kids to grow up. And then but

959
00:54:32,800 --> 00:54:34,880
Speaker 3: while during that fifteen years he was still trying to

960
00:54:34,920 --> 00:54:36,480
Speaker 3: like win her over into marriage.

961
00:54:37,160 --> 00:54:39,080
Speaker 2: And then she said that.

962
00:54:39,040 --> 00:54:41,200
Speaker 3: At one point that she knew that it was a

963
00:54:41,200 --> 00:54:46,440
Speaker 3: loveless marriage and that she never loved her children. Oh yeah,

964
00:54:46,480 --> 00:54:48,799
Speaker 3: and this is a direct quote. I wrote this shit

965
00:54:48,920 --> 00:54:52,160
Speaker 3: down because I was like, God damned, she says, And

966
00:54:52,200 --> 00:54:55,680
Speaker 3: I think this is again Marianna's shaken. She says, the

967
00:54:55,760 --> 00:55:01,560
Speaker 3: life I've led has stifled my potential. Yeah, like again

968
00:55:01,880 --> 00:55:05,240
Speaker 3: talking about secondly feminism and like a lot of women

969
00:55:06,120 --> 00:55:10,400
Speaker 3: came out of the sixties and seventies feeling like I

970
00:55:10,400 --> 00:55:11,239
Speaker 3: ain't doing this shit.

971
00:55:11,840 --> 00:55:12,880
Speaker 2: Yeah it is not for me.

972
00:55:14,280 --> 00:55:18,719
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean listen, I mean I had read at

973
00:55:18,760 --> 00:55:25,120
Speaker 1: several points that this movie might have contributed to an

974
00:55:25,200 --> 00:55:29,839
Speaker 1: uptick and divorce. Really yes, in Europe in the seventies. Now,

975
00:55:30,080 --> 00:55:33,319
Speaker 1: like there has been people that debunked it and have

976
00:55:33,360 --> 00:55:36,480
Speaker 1: said it wasn't just the movie, it was the cultural

977
00:55:36,640 --> 00:55:40,480
Speaker 1: upheaval of you know, the early to the mid seventies

978
00:55:40,520 --> 00:55:44,640
Speaker 1: of women's liberation and stuff like that too, obviously, But

979
00:55:45,719 --> 00:55:48,600
Speaker 1: to me, it's not surprising if it did, because this

980
00:55:48,640 --> 00:55:51,640
Speaker 1: shit is going hard. Like you're not watching this movie

981
00:55:51,680 --> 00:55:53,880
Speaker 1: for more than twenty minutes, and you're like, there is

982
00:55:54,000 --> 00:56:01,200
Speaker 1: some dark truths being said right now, and like it's

983
00:56:01,320 --> 00:56:04,719
Speaker 1: dark from a modern perspective, but in back in that day,

984
00:56:04,880 --> 00:56:09,480
Speaker 1: you're probably like nobody is talking about marriage and kids

985
00:56:09,560 --> 00:56:11,920
Speaker 1: like this, Like absolutely, it's.

986
00:56:11,760 --> 00:56:15,680
Speaker 3: Shocking, and it also and that raises the question, like

987
00:56:15,760 --> 00:56:17,120
Speaker 3: I love that you put it that way, because that

988
00:56:17,200 --> 00:56:20,040
Speaker 3: raises the question too of like should you be saying

989
00:56:20,040 --> 00:56:22,719
Speaker 3: this shit to your partner, Like is that closeness that

990
00:56:22,760 --> 00:56:24,200
Speaker 3: you can say the most fucked up thing in the

991
00:56:24,200 --> 00:56:26,040
Speaker 3: world to them and expect them to just take it.

992
00:56:26,760 --> 00:56:32,200
Speaker 1: I can't answer that, just like I do not. I

993
00:56:33,360 --> 00:56:37,960
Speaker 1: would say it probably and I'm probably wrong, but that's

994
00:56:38,400 --> 00:56:41,000
Speaker 1: I'm no measure of success when it comes to that, right.

995
00:56:41,400 --> 00:56:44,479
Speaker 1: But to me, yeah, I mean there is that point

996
00:56:44,520 --> 00:56:48,200
Speaker 1: where you're like, should you be that? Honest? I don't know,

997
00:56:48,600 --> 00:56:51,160
Speaker 1: Like what is That's why every marriage is dark. As

998
00:56:51,160 --> 00:56:56,520
Speaker 1: I said before, every marriage is dark, especially the marriages

999
00:56:56,560 --> 00:56:59,480
Speaker 1: in this film, cause that's this is so, this is

1000
00:56:59,520 --> 00:57:04,400
Speaker 1: what happened ends immediately after this, Okay, Johan comes home

1001
00:57:04,440 --> 00:57:08,520
Speaker 1: from a business trip. Marianne is thrilled that he's home.

1002
00:57:08,600 --> 00:57:10,239
Speaker 1: She's like doting on him, like I want to make

1003
00:57:10,280 --> 00:57:12,160
Speaker 1: you sandwiches. I want to do it, you know, like

1004
00:57:12,239 --> 00:57:14,319
Speaker 1: are you hungry, Like let's hang out. I missed you,

1005
00:57:14,320 --> 00:57:20,280
Speaker 1: blah blah blah blah. And of course Johann drops the

1006
00:57:20,400 --> 00:57:25,840
Speaker 1: fucking atomic bomb and says, I've fallen in love with

1007
00:57:25,880 --> 00:57:30,320
Speaker 1: somebody else. It's a woman from work named Paula.

1008
00:57:31,560 --> 00:57:34,760
Speaker 2: Okay, and they're vacation. This is their vacation home that

1009
00:57:34,800 --> 00:57:36,720
Speaker 2: he's soiling with this truth.

1010
00:57:37,560 --> 00:57:41,200
Speaker 1: Yes, now, I'm not sure if any of you have

1011
00:57:41,280 --> 00:57:46,560
Speaker 1: seen that movie An Unmarried Woman with Joe Clayburg. If

1012
00:57:46,600 --> 00:57:49,560
Speaker 1: you haven't, it's excellent. You should get it. It's on

1013
00:57:49,600 --> 00:57:54,120
Speaker 1: Criterion Collection. But that movie really came to mind for

1014
00:57:54,200 --> 00:57:56,280
Speaker 1: me when I was watching the scene again because it

1015
00:57:56,400 --> 00:58:00,720
Speaker 1: goes down very similarly in that movie in an Unmarried Woman,

1016
00:58:01,200 --> 00:58:04,680
Speaker 1: where the husband they're just doing something one day and

1017
00:58:04,720 --> 00:58:09,920
Speaker 1: then the husband just drops in the fact that not

1018
00:58:10,040 --> 00:58:13,480
Speaker 1: only is he having an affair, but he's in love

1019
00:58:13,800 --> 00:58:17,880
Speaker 1: with someone else, and in both movies, of course a

1020
00:58:18,000 --> 00:58:24,960
Speaker 1: much younger woman, okay, and that he is leaving asap,

1021
00:58:26,560 --> 00:58:30,840
Speaker 1: which is to me the most shocking part of it,

1022
00:58:30,920 --> 00:58:35,360
Speaker 1: almost because that's the thing is that Johan tells Mary Anne,

1023
00:58:35,560 --> 00:58:37,960
Speaker 1: you know, he's dropped this bomb. He's like, this is

1024
00:58:38,040 --> 00:58:41,280
Speaker 1: the news. I'm leaving tomorrow and I'm going to be

1025
00:58:41,320 --> 00:58:43,320
Speaker 1: gone for at least six or seven months.

1026
00:58:43,760 --> 00:58:49,720
Speaker 3: I mean, this motherfucker just goes so hard and it

1027
00:58:49,800 --> 00:58:52,320
Speaker 3: is devastating to watch her try to process that.

1028
00:58:53,200 --> 00:58:56,919
Speaker 1: One hundred percent. And then I started thinking, because part

1029
00:58:56,920 --> 00:58:59,280
Speaker 1: of what I think is shocking to me personally about

1030
00:58:59,640 --> 00:59:01,440
Speaker 1: how he saying it, not only in the fact that

1031
00:59:01,480 --> 00:59:06,320
Speaker 1: he's being just like super cavalier and cruel about it

1032
00:59:06,360 --> 00:59:09,440
Speaker 1: is the fact that he it's clear that he had

1033
00:59:09,480 --> 00:59:15,800
Speaker 1: already made a plan. Yeah, okay, And is that ultimately

1034
00:59:15,920 --> 00:59:19,000
Speaker 1: less cruel then to just be like, I don't know,

1035
00:59:19,080 --> 00:59:20,720
Speaker 1: I'm just in love with somebody and I don't know

1036
00:59:20,760 --> 00:59:22,440
Speaker 1: what I'm doing and I don't know, I don't know

1037
00:59:22,440 --> 00:59:22,960
Speaker 1: what to do.

1038
00:59:23,560 --> 00:59:27,200
Speaker 3: I think it's way it's so much more cruel because

1039
00:59:27,200 --> 00:59:29,880
Speaker 3: he he goes on to say that, like she's she's like,

1040
00:59:29,920 --> 00:59:31,800
Speaker 3: how are you gonna live for six months in Paris?

1041
00:59:31,800 --> 00:59:34,120
Speaker 3: And he's like, well, I sold the boat and I'm

1042
00:59:34,120 --> 00:59:36,960
Speaker 3: on sabbatical. It'll be fine, and she's like what the fuck,

1043
00:59:37,120 --> 00:59:40,160
Speaker 3: Like it's so much more cruel to have that level

1044
00:59:40,160 --> 00:59:43,720
Speaker 3: of planning because to me, that indicates that you never

1045
00:59:43,800 --> 00:59:46,920
Speaker 3: intended to give her a chance, and you never intended

1046
00:59:47,320 --> 00:59:50,600
Speaker 3: to save your marriage. You never wanted like in that moment,

1047
00:59:50,640 --> 00:59:52,640
Speaker 3: you were like, I'm getting out no matter what, and

1048
00:59:52,680 --> 00:59:54,800
Speaker 3: I'm not going to give anyone a chance to stop me.

1049
00:59:55,360 --> 00:59:58,400
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, I mean it's kind of I kind of

1050
00:59:58,400 --> 01:00:01,360
Speaker 1: see it on both sides, right, because you're like, there

1051
01:00:01,440 --> 01:00:04,520
Speaker 1: is a tidiness to it that's like okay, well, then

1052
01:00:04,600 --> 01:00:07,080
Speaker 1: if it's already been decided, then you can go fuck

1053
01:00:07,120 --> 01:00:09,440
Speaker 1: off now and I can move on with my life exactly.

1054
01:00:09,480 --> 01:00:11,640
Speaker 2: It real rip the band aid off kind of feeling.

1055
01:00:11,760 --> 01:00:16,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, but I do agree too that, yeah, it's fucked up,

1056
01:00:16,240 --> 01:00:18,600
Speaker 1: because then it's like, oh, well, you just created this

1057
01:00:18,880 --> 01:00:23,600
Speaker 1: entire new phase of our lives without me, Like you've

1058
01:00:23,600 --> 01:00:26,880
Speaker 1: already figured this out, the planning has been done without me.

1059
01:00:27,120 --> 01:00:28,880
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know it is. I'm of two

1060
01:00:28,960 --> 01:00:31,320
Speaker 1: minds about it. Yeah, And it actually made me start

1061
01:00:31,400 --> 01:00:34,080
Speaker 1: thinking about the scandalal weirdly.

1062
01:00:35,560 --> 01:00:36,600
Speaker 2: Sick. It's sick.

1063
01:00:36,760 --> 01:00:40,080
Speaker 1: The vander Pump influence is sick. But you know, so

1064
01:00:40,440 --> 01:00:42,560
Speaker 1: he's a fucking dick in this moment.

1065
01:00:42,640 --> 01:00:45,680
Speaker 3: I mean, he says does taking care of He's like,

1066
01:00:45,720 --> 01:00:47,439
Speaker 3: I'll send child support, but I don't need to see

1067
01:00:47,480 --> 01:00:48,880
Speaker 3: the kids, Like what the fuck?

1068
01:00:49,560 --> 01:00:51,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, And at one point he says something like, oh,

1069
01:00:51,440 --> 01:00:53,680
Speaker 1: I've been waiting to be rid of you for like

1070
01:00:53,760 --> 01:00:58,640
Speaker 1: four years, which is just like, dude, fuck you. You know.

1071
01:00:59,520 --> 01:01:03,400
Speaker 1: And the thing that, to your point, makes it very

1072
01:01:03,440 --> 01:01:07,560
Speaker 1: hard to watch is that, you know, Marianne's like she

1073
01:01:07,680 --> 01:01:12,800
Speaker 1: just goes completely into denial mode almost immediately, Like she's

1074
01:01:12,920 --> 01:01:17,960
Speaker 1: not snapping into the anger. She's being very accommodating and

1075
01:01:18,080 --> 01:01:20,560
Speaker 1: nice about it, which, of course this is not the

1076
01:01:20,600 --> 01:01:23,840
Speaker 1: reaction that we all want her to have, right, But

1077
01:01:23,920 --> 01:01:27,440
Speaker 1: the reality is that she does not know her value

1078
01:01:27,480 --> 01:01:28,400
Speaker 1: outside of this man.

1079
01:01:28,920 --> 01:01:31,720
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, she's like still attempting to pack his suitcase

1080
01:01:31,760 --> 01:01:35,280
Speaker 3: while he leaves for his affair, and to me translates

1081
01:01:35,280 --> 01:01:38,560
Speaker 3: to a moment where she's trying to maintain her reality

1082
01:01:39,160 --> 01:01:41,560
Speaker 3: because she's just has no concept of who she is

1083
01:01:41,560 --> 01:01:42,320
Speaker 3: outside of this.

1084
01:01:42,800 --> 01:01:45,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, She's like, let me set the alarm so you

1085
01:01:45,880 --> 01:01:48,320
Speaker 1: can leave me tomorrow. I mean, she's just it's like

1086
01:01:48,400 --> 01:01:53,360
Speaker 1: she can't her processing of it is. I mean, it's

1087
01:01:53,440 --> 01:01:55,720
Speaker 1: uncomfortable because you want her to have that moment of

1088
01:01:55,760 --> 01:01:59,400
Speaker 1: being like fuck you, but no, she's just like business

1089
01:01:59,400 --> 01:02:03,800
Speaker 1: as usual, except there's one thing that's different, you know,

1090
01:02:03,840 --> 01:02:07,560
Speaker 1: because she's like she's begging him to stay the night

1091
01:02:07,840 --> 01:02:10,320
Speaker 1: and to sleep in the bed with her, and she

1092
01:02:10,480 --> 01:02:14,960
Speaker 1: wants him to say he's coming back. And meanwhile, you know,

1093
01:02:15,040 --> 01:02:17,400
Speaker 1: Johan is literally just sitting there being like he wants

1094
01:02:17,400 --> 01:02:20,480
Speaker 1: to rid himself of the obligation of this marriage, and

1095
01:02:20,840 --> 01:02:22,640
Speaker 1: you know, he's decided the best way to do that

1096
01:02:22,760 --> 01:02:24,600
Speaker 1: is to just be very cruel and short with her,

1097
01:02:24,600 --> 01:02:28,400
Speaker 1: and it just sucks. It's just a hard scene to watch.

1098
01:02:28,480 --> 01:02:31,720
Speaker 1: So then you cut to like six months later or whatever,

1099
01:02:32,240 --> 01:02:35,280
Speaker 1: and he comes back around after being with Paula, and

1100
01:02:35,360 --> 01:02:37,560
Speaker 1: you know, things are not really that much better. I mean,

1101
01:02:37,600 --> 01:02:42,520
Speaker 1: he forgot his kid's birthday, which, like, like you said

1102
01:02:43,360 --> 01:02:46,720
Speaker 1: to me, it's really interesting that they do not show

1103
01:02:46,760 --> 01:02:50,080
Speaker 1: the kids beyond the first minute or two of the film, right,

1104
01:02:50,160 --> 01:02:55,120
Speaker 1: because they're referenced obviously, but they're never in the physical

1105
01:02:55,400 --> 01:02:59,560
Speaker 1: realm in the film. And I think it's interesting because

1106
01:03:00,080 --> 01:03:04,160
Speaker 1: a lot of movies about divorce give the kids a

1107
01:03:04,160 --> 01:03:06,440
Speaker 1: big role. I think, like you know, if you think

1108
01:03:06,480 --> 01:03:09,560
Speaker 1: about like Kramer versus Kramer and marriage story, and even

1109
01:03:09,560 --> 01:03:12,800
Speaker 1: in an unmarried woman, you know their daughter is in

1110
01:03:12,880 --> 01:03:16,040
Speaker 1: the film. So the idea of them not showing the

1111
01:03:16,160 --> 01:03:20,120
Speaker 1: kids and scenes from marriage, I think it keeps the

1112
01:03:20,160 --> 01:03:24,480
Speaker 1: focus on them as a couple. Yes, you know, which

1113
01:03:24,520 --> 01:03:27,440
Speaker 1: is interesting. It's a it's an interesting technique.

1114
01:03:27,560 --> 01:03:29,400
Speaker 2: I think. Yeah, it's a very interesting choice.

1115
01:03:29,400 --> 01:03:31,080
Speaker 3: And I think and I like it because I think

1116
01:03:31,120 --> 01:03:34,760
Speaker 3: that it's it's natural for you to wonder what about

1117
01:03:34,760 --> 01:03:36,600
Speaker 3: the kids, And as soon as you start thinking, like

1118
01:03:36,640 --> 01:03:38,640
Speaker 3: you're listening to them talk and you're like thinking, what

1119
01:03:38,720 --> 01:03:41,640
Speaker 3: about the kids? And they do they mentioned them like

1120
01:03:41,680 --> 01:03:44,720
Speaker 3: shortly after, like you'll be like, but then you realize, like, oh,

1121
01:03:44,800 --> 01:03:48,160
Speaker 3: I'm thinking this because in this modern sense, that's what

1122
01:03:48,280 --> 01:03:49,880
Speaker 3: a lot of divorce has become about.

1123
01:03:50,000 --> 01:03:51,200
Speaker 2: It's the family unit.

1124
01:03:51,760 --> 01:03:55,120
Speaker 3: And this film seems to be saying, you know, we

1125
01:03:55,160 --> 01:03:57,560
Speaker 3: want to try to understand these two people who created

1126
01:03:57,560 --> 01:04:01,280
Speaker 3: this unit. And I really I love that the kids

1127
01:04:01,320 --> 01:04:03,840
Speaker 3: are not shown. They're kind of like a specter over

1128
01:04:03,880 --> 01:04:07,200
Speaker 3: the marriage and not like a crucial part of the marriage.

1129
01:04:07,040 --> 01:04:12,160
Speaker 1: Right, because I agree, showing the kids I think makes

1130
01:04:12,200 --> 01:04:14,880
Speaker 1: the stakes different for them in a weird way. And

1131
01:04:14,960 --> 01:04:17,120
Speaker 1: so when you kind of take that out of the

1132
01:04:17,160 --> 01:04:20,640
Speaker 1: equation as a viewer, you're really able to just focus

1133
01:04:20,640 --> 01:04:23,480
Speaker 1: on the two of their you know, these two people's

1134
01:04:23,520 --> 01:04:26,960
Speaker 1: relationship and the dynamics within it between the two of them,

1135
01:04:27,280 --> 01:04:29,560
Speaker 1: and then all the other outside factors like parents and

1136
01:04:29,680 --> 01:04:33,160
Speaker 1: children and that kind of stuff kind of go by

1137
01:04:33,160 --> 01:04:35,080
Speaker 1: the wayside, which I don't know, I think it's I

1138
01:04:35,080 --> 01:04:38,240
Speaker 1: think it's a good technique too. Right, So he's back,

1139
01:04:38,520 --> 01:04:40,720
Speaker 1: you know, things are not much better. Of course, he

1140
01:04:40,760 --> 01:04:44,320
Speaker 1: tries to sleep with her, fucker, right, but she's like,

1141
01:04:44,440 --> 01:04:46,480
Speaker 1: I can't do this because I'm still in love with you,

1142
01:04:46,520 --> 01:04:47,920
Speaker 1: and you can't just come back here and strow all

1143
01:04:47,920 --> 01:04:49,480
Speaker 1: this shit again with me. I'm just now I'll never

1144
01:04:49,480 --> 01:04:50,560
Speaker 1: be able to get over if you.

1145
01:04:50,600 --> 01:04:51,200
Speaker 2: Do this right.

1146
01:04:51,880 --> 01:04:56,680
Speaker 1: And then this is one of the most enraging parts

1147
01:04:56,800 --> 01:04:59,560
Speaker 1: of this film for me, and I don't know if

1148
01:04:59,600 --> 01:05:04,360
Speaker 1: it's because this has actually happened to me before. In

1149
01:05:04,440 --> 01:05:07,520
Speaker 1: this moment, she starts telling him, look, I'm in therapy,

1150
01:05:07,720 --> 01:05:10,520
Speaker 1: I'm writing poetry. Can I read you one of my poems?

1151
01:05:11,440 --> 01:05:11,840
Speaker 2: Okay?

1152
01:05:12,840 --> 01:05:16,360
Speaker 1: And so she opens up her notebook and then she

1153
01:05:16,360 --> 01:05:19,160
Speaker 1: she starts reading this poem that she's written about her life,

1154
01:05:19,200 --> 01:05:23,240
Speaker 1: and it's basically this entire piece about how she's always

1155
01:05:23,280 --> 01:05:25,120
Speaker 1: just done what people have told her to do and

1156
01:05:25,160 --> 01:05:28,600
Speaker 1: she doesn't know herself. And you know, Igmar Bergman, the

1157
01:05:28,640 --> 01:05:32,200
Speaker 1: director is inserting these photos of I guess live omen

1158
01:05:32,280 --> 01:05:34,680
Speaker 1: when she was a child and a teenager.

1159
01:05:34,600 --> 01:05:37,920
Speaker 3: Which I gotta stopping for one second and say, the

1160
01:05:37,960 --> 01:05:41,160
Speaker 3: most incredible photo is where she's holding a bouquet of

1161
01:05:41,160 --> 01:05:43,720
Speaker 3: flowers in one hand and a squirrel by the tail

1162
01:05:43,800 --> 01:05:44,240
Speaker 3: in the other.

1163
01:05:46,040 --> 01:05:47,920
Speaker 2: I can build a whole universe off of that picture.

1164
01:05:47,920 --> 01:05:49,640
Speaker 2: But I'm sorry continue yeah, no, no.

1165
01:05:49,560 --> 01:05:52,920
Speaker 1: No, they're great, they're great photos. But I also think

1166
01:05:52,960 --> 01:05:56,640
Speaker 1: that like showing those photos makes like what she's saying

1167
01:05:56,680 --> 01:06:00,240
Speaker 1: in that moment just really important. And it's a very

1168
01:06:00,320 --> 01:06:04,520
Speaker 1: powerful moment of the film. Okay, And then after Marianne's

1169
01:06:04,520 --> 01:06:09,880
Speaker 1: done reading it, she realizes that Jean fell asleep, that motherfucker,

1170
01:06:10,880 --> 01:06:16,320
Speaker 1: and that rags me, Like I it also says.

1171
01:06:16,120 --> 01:06:18,840
Speaker 3: Up the whole dynamic for their fucking relationship. He doesn't

1172
01:06:18,840 --> 01:06:21,200
Speaker 3: listen to her, he doesn't care about her life at all.

1173
01:06:22,040 --> 01:06:26,440
Speaker 1: Yes, and I'm not going to get into details about

1174
01:06:26,480 --> 01:06:29,840
Speaker 1: my own experience with that, but I that is a

1175
01:06:29,920 --> 01:06:31,960
Speaker 1: turning point moment.

1176
01:06:32,280 --> 01:06:35,000
Speaker 3: Let's just see, like someone fell asleep while you were

1177
01:06:35,040 --> 01:06:35,800
Speaker 3: pouring your heart out.

1178
01:06:36,320 --> 01:06:40,560
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, fucking you are out of here, motherfucker never

1179
01:06:40,720 --> 01:06:46,040
Speaker 1: again anyway. So uh but you know, she the problem

1180
01:06:46,080 --> 01:06:50,040
Speaker 1: here is that that happens, and then they still meet

1181
01:06:50,160 --> 01:06:52,360
Speaker 1: up over the years, Like the film continues on, it's

1182
01:06:52,360 --> 01:06:56,320
Speaker 1: starts spanning time. They meet up every couple of years

1183
01:06:57,320 --> 01:06:59,920
Speaker 1: trying to get the divorce paper signed, and the power

1184
01:07:00,120 --> 01:07:03,840
Speaker 1: dynamic is just changing between the two of them every time.

1185
01:07:03,960 --> 01:07:07,000
Speaker 1: Right at one moment, you know, it seems like Marianne

1186
01:07:07,040 --> 01:07:10,400
Speaker 1: still pines for this piece of shit. But then the

1187
01:07:10,440 --> 01:07:15,680
Speaker 1: next time they're together, she's angry and activated, and he's

1188
01:07:15,840 --> 01:07:18,320
Speaker 1: groveling and he wishes that he could come home because

1189
01:07:18,360 --> 01:07:22,520
Speaker 1: he's sick of Paula no shit. And that's the thing

1190
01:07:22,560 --> 01:07:24,680
Speaker 1: is that when you think about this movie coming out

1191
01:07:24,680 --> 01:07:27,280
Speaker 1: around the time of like women's liberation around the world,

1192
01:07:27,360 --> 01:07:30,320
Speaker 1: you know, there was a feeling I think within me

1193
01:07:31,080 --> 01:07:34,640
Speaker 1: when I'm watching this film of wanting Marianne to understand

1194
01:07:34,680 --> 01:07:37,880
Speaker 1: herself and her value and to be stay in that

1195
01:07:37,920 --> 01:07:41,360
Speaker 1: moment of activation of like he's a bad dude, this

1196
01:07:41,680 --> 01:07:44,880
Speaker 1: like we I need to leave him and never look back, right.

1197
01:07:45,880 --> 01:07:48,360
Speaker 3: And you think she's getting to that in that divorce scene,

1198
01:07:48,400 --> 01:07:50,480
Speaker 3: like where she's trying to get him to sign the papers.

1199
01:07:50,880 --> 01:07:53,120
Speaker 3: She says some really powerful shit there, but then that

1200
01:07:53,160 --> 01:07:55,560
Speaker 3: scene takes a very dark turn.

1201
01:07:56,240 --> 01:08:01,200
Speaker 1: Very dark turn, where you know, it kind of devolves

1202
01:08:01,240 --> 01:08:07,240
Speaker 1: into this you know, physical fight and it's really hard

1203
01:08:07,240 --> 01:08:12,680
Speaker 1: to watch and it's not glamorous, and it's just you know,

1204
01:08:13,120 --> 01:08:17,280
Speaker 1: like some kind of like physical manifestation of everything that's

1205
01:08:17,320 --> 01:08:19,760
Speaker 1: been happening to this couple, and it's just it's it's

1206
01:08:19,920 --> 01:08:23,200
Speaker 1: just that part of the film where you're like wow,

1207
01:08:23,439 --> 01:08:27,840
Speaker 1: like it really is is shocking. And the thing about

1208
01:08:27,880 --> 01:08:30,439
Speaker 1: it is that you know, even though these things are happening,

1209
01:08:31,200 --> 01:08:35,479
Speaker 1: they're still like wrestling with each other in that other way,

1210
01:08:35,520 --> 01:08:39,280
Speaker 1: which is that I'm bonded to this person. I hate

1211
01:08:39,280 --> 01:08:43,800
Speaker 1: this person, I love this person. I can't wait to

1212
01:08:43,880 --> 01:08:46,280
Speaker 1: move away from this person. Like it's just that back

1213
01:08:46,280 --> 01:08:49,519
Speaker 1: and forth that's kind of like it's real though, I mean,

1214
01:08:49,560 --> 01:08:52,400
Speaker 1: as much as it's frustrating, it's real. And I think

1215
01:08:52,439 --> 01:08:56,840
Speaker 1: everybody knows that to some certain degree of being in

1216
01:08:56,880 --> 01:09:02,479
Speaker 1: these very complicated relationships with people. And like the thing

1217
01:09:02,600 --> 01:09:06,280
Speaker 1: I think if there is a slight miss, and I

1218
01:09:06,280 --> 01:09:08,439
Speaker 1: almost can't believe I'm saying this, but I'm saying it,

1219
01:09:08,960 --> 01:09:11,040
Speaker 1: if there's a slight miss of this film, it's that

1220
01:09:12,240 --> 01:09:17,240
Speaker 1: I feel like the Johann character never really becomes likable,

1221
01:09:17,840 --> 01:09:24,040
Speaker 1: absolutely never, never so because I as much as I

1222
01:09:24,080 --> 01:09:27,840
Speaker 1: do sympathize with Marianne, I I and obviously as a woman,

1223
01:09:27,880 --> 01:09:31,000
Speaker 1: I'm drawn to her story, but I also feel like

1224
01:09:31,080 --> 01:09:34,720
Speaker 1: he's a bastard, and he kind of stays a bastard.

1225
01:09:35,439 --> 01:09:39,160
Speaker 1: I mean, maybe I'm not suggesting he should have been

1226
01:09:39,200 --> 01:09:44,880
Speaker 1: more likable, but I feel like It's interesting because even

1227
01:09:44,920 --> 01:09:50,280
Speaker 1: though he truly is the bad guy for the majority

1228
01:09:50,320 --> 01:09:53,960
Speaker 1: of not all, of this film, you do get the

1229
01:09:54,000 --> 01:09:57,800
Speaker 1: sense that it's complicated between the two of them. Like,

1230
01:09:57,840 --> 01:10:01,519
Speaker 1: as much as i'm my heart screams leave him, I

1231
01:10:01,520 --> 01:10:03,200
Speaker 1: know it's complicated, girl, But you got to get out

1232
01:10:03,200 --> 01:10:06,519
Speaker 1: of this thing. I get I still get it. He

1233
01:10:06,560 --> 01:10:09,439
Speaker 1: could be that bad of a guy and she could

1234
01:10:09,479 --> 01:10:12,280
Speaker 1: still want to reconcile, right right.

1235
01:10:12,760 --> 01:10:16,080
Speaker 3: Well, yeah, I think that that's part of the frustration.

1236
01:10:17,200 --> 01:10:19,320
Speaker 3: Part of the frustration for me is that it's not

1237
01:10:19,400 --> 01:10:23,040
Speaker 3: even that he stays a bad guy as much as

1238
01:10:24,160 --> 01:10:29,400
Speaker 3: he's completely unwilling to change. Ever, he will never give

1239
01:10:29,439 --> 01:10:33,280
Speaker 3: her any comfort in that way that to show, to

1240
01:10:33,360 --> 01:10:37,560
Speaker 3: showcase that he's able to adapt to whatever their relationship

1241
01:10:37,600 --> 01:10:41,160
Speaker 3: is in the moment, he just he's very stagnant about

1242
01:10:41,640 --> 01:10:43,640
Speaker 3: his emotional life. And they talk about it in that

1243
01:10:44,320 --> 01:10:48,280
Speaker 3: divorce paper signing section that's called the literates, and he,

1244
01:10:48,520 --> 01:10:49,960
Speaker 3: you know, he talks about it, but he doesn't do

1245
01:10:50,000 --> 01:10:53,639
Speaker 3: anything about it. Yeah, And you're like, well, I don't

1246
01:10:53,640 --> 01:10:54,920
Speaker 3: want the talk, I want the action.

1247
01:10:55,720 --> 01:10:59,440
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, and yeah, I mean, and the film continues

1248
01:10:59,479 --> 01:11:02,000
Speaker 1: on like that. I feel that's the interesting part is

1249
01:11:02,000 --> 01:11:05,880
Speaker 1: that it's kind of hard to give away the ending necessarily,

1250
01:11:05,920 --> 01:11:08,280
Speaker 1: but it's like, you know, it just is I think,

1251
01:11:10,360 --> 01:11:16,160
Speaker 1: very realistic. It doesn't have like a tidy ending. This

1252
01:11:16,400 --> 01:11:19,160
Speaker 1: entire film is not tidy. I mean, it's it's the

1253
01:11:19,200 --> 01:11:21,760
Speaker 1: thing that it does the best is that it's very

1254
01:11:23,120 --> 01:11:27,439
Speaker 1: articulate about what it's trying to communicate. Like it's saying, like,

1255
01:11:27,560 --> 01:11:31,880
Speaker 1: here's our two people that have very complicated feelings. They

1256
01:11:31,880 --> 01:11:34,920
Speaker 1: are also articulate about those feelings, so they're able to

1257
01:11:35,000 --> 01:11:37,439
Speaker 1: kind of express the things that we wish we could express,

1258
01:11:37,960 --> 01:11:40,680
Speaker 1: you know. And I think that, you know, this is

1259
01:11:40,760 --> 01:11:44,679
Speaker 1: it's fascinating, it's excruciating at times, but I think it's

1260
01:11:44,720 --> 01:11:48,840
Speaker 1: just kind of like it's to me, it's remarkable, Like

1261
01:11:48,880 --> 01:11:51,360
Speaker 1: I think this movie is incredible. I mean the original

1262
01:11:51,360 --> 01:11:55,479
Speaker 1: series is great too. I've seen them both, and I

1263
01:11:55,560 --> 01:11:58,360
Speaker 1: just think it's kind of like I don't want to

1264
01:11:58,400 --> 01:12:00,519
Speaker 1: be like too dramatic about it, but it's such a

1265
01:12:00,560 --> 01:12:04,519
Speaker 1: watershed type of film experience. I mean, it's just really

1266
01:12:04,560 --> 01:12:07,680
Speaker 1: like you're in the middle of a relationship with absolutely

1267
01:12:07,800 --> 01:12:10,599
Speaker 1: all and I haven't seen them. I haven't seen the remake.

1268
01:12:10,600 --> 01:12:11,759
Speaker 1: I don't know if you saw the remake.

1269
01:12:12,000 --> 01:12:15,120
Speaker 3: Yes, I watched the remake recently and I liked it.

1270
01:12:15,200 --> 01:12:18,080
Speaker 3: I liked it a lot more than I thought I would.

1271
01:12:18,160 --> 01:12:21,599
Speaker 3: I think that there they make some interesting changes in

1272
01:12:21,680 --> 01:12:24,120
Speaker 3: order to bring it up to present date. So there's

1273
01:12:24,160 --> 01:12:26,160
Speaker 3: like a lot of gender swapping in the film in

1274
01:12:26,240 --> 01:12:29,360
Speaker 3: terms of you know, who makes the money, like she's

1275
01:12:29,439 --> 01:12:32,000
Speaker 3: kind of the breadwinner of the family, and you know,

1276
01:12:32,040 --> 01:12:34,439
Speaker 3: it just it's it's interesting, I think. But I really

1277
01:12:34,479 --> 01:12:37,360
Speaker 3: love you know, I think Oscar Isaac and Jessica Chestain

1278
01:12:38,000 --> 01:12:41,760
Speaker 3: do a pretty incredible job of filming. And there's a

1279
01:12:41,800 --> 01:12:44,960
Speaker 3: lot of scenes where it almost feels like you're watching

1280
01:12:44,960 --> 01:12:48,799
Speaker 3: a play because there were like an entire twenty minute

1281
01:12:48,840 --> 01:12:52,960
Speaker 3: scene is shot consecutively, like there's no like they do

1282
01:12:53,040 --> 01:12:56,840
Speaker 3: one take, and so it's really really fraud So yeah,

1283
01:12:56,880 --> 01:12:59,160
Speaker 3: I like, I like the update, but I love I

1284
01:12:59,200 --> 01:13:02,160
Speaker 3: love this movie. I think that it's it's one of

1285
01:13:02,200 --> 01:13:06,160
Speaker 3: the first times I think people got to feel like

1286
01:13:06,200 --> 01:13:08,479
Speaker 3: they were in a dark relationship, not just in like

1287
01:13:08,520 --> 01:13:09,640
Speaker 3: a happy relationship.

1288
01:13:09,680 --> 01:13:10,720
Speaker 2: But yeah, I loved it.

1289
01:13:11,600 --> 01:13:13,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, I do too, And I mean, of course, you

1290
01:13:13,680 --> 01:13:17,640
Speaker 1: guys know, I am a big fan of the darkness.

1291
01:13:18,400 --> 01:13:20,040
Speaker 1: I've gone on records saying and many times I'm like,

1292
01:13:20,040 --> 01:13:22,320
Speaker 1: I like a dark thing. I mean, there's a reason

1293
01:13:22,320 --> 01:13:24,679
Speaker 1: why I like this season of Vanner Pomp. Let's get serious.

1294
01:13:24,720 --> 01:13:28,360
Speaker 3: But I'm just I wish you had any inclination to

1295
01:13:28,439 --> 01:13:32,200
Speaker 3: watch the bat the Christopher Nolan Batman trilogy, because there

1296
01:13:32,280 --> 01:13:35,360
Speaker 3: is a part in The Dark Knight Rises where Tom

1297
01:13:35,520 --> 01:13:38,759
Speaker 3: Hardy says, you merely adopted the darkness.

1298
01:13:38,800 --> 01:13:39,800
Speaker 2: I was born into it.

1299
01:13:40,360 --> 01:13:43,080
Speaker 1: Ooh, and that is you all over.

1300
01:13:45,400 --> 01:13:47,520
Speaker 2: Well, you know, there are certain.

1301
01:13:47,200 --> 01:13:54,519
Speaker 1: People who can't They don't like this level of human

1302
01:13:56,280 --> 01:13:59,920
Speaker 1: I don't know, human interaction or human character. I mean

1303
01:14:00,360 --> 01:14:02,960
Speaker 1: I get it, like there are people who don't want

1304
01:14:03,000 --> 01:14:08,240
Speaker 1: to get down to this molecular level of you know, behavior,

1305
01:14:08,320 --> 01:14:11,240
Speaker 1: of human behavior because it is dark and it does

1306
01:14:11,280 --> 01:14:14,200
Speaker 1: make you have to process like people's dark sides. And

1307
01:14:14,240 --> 01:14:17,120
Speaker 1: you know, like I said, I've no stranger to it,

1308
01:14:17,160 --> 01:14:19,120
Speaker 1: and I actually kind of love it because I'm fascinated

1309
01:14:19,160 --> 01:14:23,160
Speaker 1: by it. But this movie is hard to watch. I mean, yeah,

1310
01:14:23,360 --> 01:14:25,400
Speaker 1: I watched what was it? I think it was on

1311
01:14:25,439 --> 01:14:29,439
Speaker 1: the Criterion channel where there was one one of you

1312
01:14:29,479 --> 01:14:32,479
Speaker 1: know how they have those adventures in movie going series

1313
01:14:32,520 --> 01:14:35,439
Speaker 1: things where they interview you know, famous celebrities about their

1314
01:14:35,479 --> 01:14:39,040
Speaker 1: favorite movies. And I think Michael Sarah was interviewed about

1315
01:14:39,040 --> 01:14:43,439
Speaker 1: this movie and he was like, either him or Peter

1316
01:14:43,600 --> 01:14:47,360
Speaker 1: who interviewed him, was like, don't watch this movie on

1317
01:14:47,640 --> 01:14:49,960
Speaker 1: when you're starting a relationship or on Valentine's Day or

1318
01:14:50,000 --> 01:14:51,400
Speaker 1: something like that, Like, you know, it's like one of

1319
01:14:51,400 --> 01:14:54,000
Speaker 1: those you know, if you want to stay in a

1320
01:14:54,040 --> 01:14:56,400
Speaker 1: relationship with somebody, do not watch this movie together.

1321
01:14:56,800 --> 01:14:58,599
Speaker 2: Oh damn yeah.

1322
01:14:58,680 --> 01:15:00,200
Speaker 1: Although you know, in my mind, I was it's like,

1323
01:15:00,240 --> 01:15:01,960
Speaker 1: this would be a perfect Valentine's Day movie.

1324
01:15:02,000 --> 01:15:03,240
Speaker 2: B same same.

1325
01:15:03,360 --> 01:15:04,679
Speaker 3: I was like, I want to I want to watch

1326
01:15:04,680 --> 01:15:07,479
Speaker 3: it at the beginning of every relationship and really suss

1327
01:15:07,520 --> 01:15:08,160
Speaker 3: this shit out.

1328
01:15:08,960 --> 01:15:10,519
Speaker 2: How do you feel about yoan yoan?

1329
01:15:11,439 --> 01:15:14,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, let's watch this and solo one hundred and twenty

1330
01:15:14,200 --> 01:15:18,160
Speaker 1: Days of Sodom together on Valentine's Day. Anyway, I listen.

1331
01:15:18,280 --> 01:15:21,280
Speaker 1: I'm glad we got to talk about this. I was

1332
01:15:21,600 --> 01:15:23,400
Speaker 1: happy to have seen it again, had been a while,

1333
01:15:23,479 --> 01:15:26,040
Speaker 1: and I just really, I really love it. I think

1334
01:15:26,080 --> 01:15:27,320
Speaker 1: it's a masterpiece.

1335
01:15:27,720 --> 01:15:30,000
Speaker 2: It truly is. I'm so glad you brought it to

1336
01:15:30,320 --> 01:15:30,840
Speaker 2: the pod.

1337
01:15:32,200 --> 01:15:34,120
Speaker 1: Speaking of masterpieces, woo.

1338
01:15:34,640 --> 01:15:37,559
Speaker 3: I think my film also influenced a lot of films,

1339
01:15:37,560 --> 01:15:38,679
Speaker 3: possibly even this one.

1340
01:15:39,439 --> 01:15:39,679
Speaker 2: Yes.

1341
01:15:40,680 --> 01:15:44,439
Speaker 3: At the time it was released, it was very controversial, which.

1342
01:15:44,240 --> 01:15:45,160
Speaker 2: I'll get into.

1343
01:15:45,920 --> 01:15:48,960
Speaker 3: But my film was released in nineteen sixty six. It

1344
01:15:49,000 --> 01:15:52,559
Speaker 3: was directed by Mike Nichols. The screenplay is by Ernest Lehman,

1345
01:15:52,680 --> 01:15:56,000
Speaker 3: but it's based on a play by Edward Albi and

1346
01:15:56,120 --> 01:16:00,840
Speaker 3: my movie is Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf. George didn't

1347
01:16:00,880 --> 01:16:03,800
Speaker 3: have much push, he wasn't particularly aggressive.

1348
01:16:04,640 --> 01:16:05,919
Speaker 2: In fact, he was sort.

1349
01:16:05,720 --> 01:16:12,800
Speaker 3: Of a flop, a great, big fact. So I'm gonna

1350
01:16:12,800 --> 01:16:17,559
Speaker 3: give a one sentence synopsis about the movie. I'm gonna try, Okay,

1351
01:16:18,080 --> 01:16:21,760
Speaker 3: My one sense and synopsis is two deeply drunk and

1352
01:16:21,800 --> 01:16:26,479
Speaker 3: dysfunctional people inflict a night of volatility and emotional damage

1353
01:16:26,640 --> 01:16:27,639
Speaker 3: on an innocent couple.

1354
01:16:30,120 --> 01:16:33,280
Speaker 1: True. Sounds like a horror movie.

1355
01:16:33,680 --> 01:16:34,360
Speaker 2: Completely.

1356
01:16:34,400 --> 01:16:38,120
Speaker 3: It is a horror movie with you from certain certain aspects.

1357
01:16:38,240 --> 01:16:39,280
Speaker 1: Totally totally.

1358
01:16:39,960 --> 01:16:42,200
Speaker 3: But this movie is based on a play by Edward

1359
01:16:42,360 --> 01:16:46,880
Speaker 3: lb and the there's a an interview in the Paris

1360
01:16:46,960 --> 01:16:49,120
Speaker 3: Review where he says that the title of the play

1361
01:16:49,200 --> 01:16:51,840
Speaker 3: means Who's afraid of the Big, bad Wolf? Who's afraid

1362
01:16:51,880 --> 01:16:55,880
Speaker 3: of living life without false illusions? So it's not about

1363
01:16:56,000 --> 01:16:59,080
Speaker 3: the writer Virginia Wolf and they kind of, you know,

1364
01:17:00,120 --> 01:17:01,519
Speaker 3: kind of dis missed. A lot of people thought that

1365
01:17:01,560 --> 01:17:02,920
Speaker 3: when it first came out, and he's like, no, it's

1366
01:17:02,920 --> 01:17:05,960
Speaker 3: not about actual Virginia Wolf. It's kind of about characters

1367
01:17:05,960 --> 01:17:10,840
Speaker 3: who are shirking like societal norms in that moment. And

1368
01:17:10,880 --> 01:17:14,280
Speaker 3: the way they do it is we're focusing on an

1369
01:17:14,360 --> 01:17:18,160
Speaker 3: older couple and a younger couple. So you have Martha,

1370
01:17:18,360 --> 01:17:23,280
Speaker 3: who's this shrieking wife who informs George, who is our

1371
01:17:23,400 --> 01:17:26,960
Speaker 3: university professor husband, that they're having a new professor, a

1372
01:17:27,000 --> 01:17:29,639
Speaker 3: young professor, and his wife over for drinks, even though

1373
01:17:29,640 --> 01:17:33,720
Speaker 3: they've just left a party and are completely soused. And

1374
01:17:33,760 --> 01:17:37,160
Speaker 3: he's like, seriously, we're having these two funcks and she's like, well,

1375
01:17:37,160 --> 01:17:38,639
Speaker 3: my dad's said to be nice to them, and as

1376
01:17:38,640 --> 01:17:40,600
Speaker 3: it turns out, her dad is the president of the.

1377
01:17:40,640 --> 01:17:42,080
Speaker 2: University where George works.

1378
01:17:42,720 --> 01:17:45,200
Speaker 3: But because this is such a it is definitely a

1379
01:17:45,280 --> 01:17:48,080
Speaker 3: chamber movie, and it's such a limited cast, it's four roles.

1380
01:17:48,320 --> 01:17:50,680
Speaker 3: You know, you're seeing four people. Is worth it to

1381
01:17:50,720 --> 01:17:54,280
Speaker 3: mention who's playing those characters. So Elizabeth Taylor plays Martha,

1382
01:17:54,800 --> 01:17:59,439
Speaker 3: Richard Burton plays George. George Siegel is Nick, and Sandy

1383
01:17:59,520 --> 01:18:04,679
Speaker 3: Dennis place honey, but it's this very tight, tightly wound cast,

1384
01:18:05,640 --> 01:18:09,080
Speaker 3: and I think their choices for these parts were brilliant.

1385
01:18:09,800 --> 01:18:12,960
Speaker 3: Especially Elizabeth Taylor and Richard Burton, if you did not know,

1386
01:18:13,520 --> 01:18:15,599
Speaker 3: were married a couple of times to each other. They

1387
01:18:15,640 --> 01:18:21,679
Speaker 3: had a very very volatile relationship. There's a book about

1388
01:18:21,680 --> 01:18:25,000
Speaker 3: their marriage called Furious Love that I recommend reading, and

1389
01:18:25,120 --> 01:18:28,120
Speaker 3: it's just wild to read about these two.

1390
01:18:28,479 --> 01:18:32,960
Speaker 2: And it kind of was like.

1391
01:18:31,520 --> 01:18:34,840
Speaker 3: Like Elizabeth Taylor was already a superstar when she met

1392
01:18:34,920 --> 01:18:38,599
Speaker 3: Richard Burton, who was a stage actor, and a lot

1393
01:18:38,640 --> 01:18:41,360
Speaker 3: of their friction was based in him never really being

1394
01:18:41,400 --> 01:18:45,000
Speaker 3: able to adapt to her fame. It's it's just it's

1395
01:18:45,080 --> 01:18:49,919
Speaker 3: very very interesting to read. But so in this film

1396
01:18:50,479 --> 01:18:53,559
Speaker 3: there were a lot of comparisons made at the time

1397
01:18:53,600 --> 01:18:58,080
Speaker 3: it came out to their actual relationship. Yeah, yeah, because

1398
01:18:58,120 --> 01:19:02,720
Speaker 3: their actual relationship was it's not easygoing. Actually, there's a

1399
01:19:02,760 --> 01:19:06,280
Speaker 3: book called Mike Nichols a Life, and it's written by

1400
01:19:06,280 --> 01:19:10,240
Speaker 3: Mark Harris, and they talk about filming this movie that

1401
01:19:10,280 --> 01:19:14,360
Speaker 3: he directed. There are definitely some funny fucking moments. Because

1402
01:19:14,800 --> 01:19:18,080
Speaker 3: one other thing about this play and this movie is

1403
01:19:18,120 --> 01:19:21,320
Speaker 3: that it was really a lightning rot of controversy in

1404
01:19:21,439 --> 01:19:24,519
Speaker 3: terms of the language that was used. So in this

1405
01:19:24,600 --> 01:19:28,240
Speaker 3: Mike Nichols book, there's one point where they say, in

1406
01:19:28,280 --> 01:19:32,880
Speaker 3: a memo to the studio, a PCA representative had annotated

1407
01:19:32,920 --> 01:19:36,800
Speaker 3: the playscript starting with Jesus age Christ on page one

1408
01:19:37,400 --> 01:19:41,920
Speaker 3: flagged every goddamn angel tits son of a bitch and

1409
01:19:42,040 --> 01:19:44,440
Speaker 3: hump the hostess as unacceptable.

1410
01:19:44,840 --> 01:19:47,479
Speaker 2: Like this movie, the language that was used was.

1411
01:19:47,479 --> 01:19:51,799
Speaker 3: Already setting this up to be a very controversial film,

1412
01:19:52,400 --> 01:19:54,680
Speaker 3: and it was also controversial in terms of how it

1413
01:19:54,800 --> 01:19:59,040
Speaker 3: was seen to portray marriage. There was nothing like this

1414
01:19:59,320 --> 01:20:03,880
Speaker 3: that had been done before, and I think that it's

1415
01:20:03,920 --> 01:20:07,280
Speaker 3: just it's really interesting to read in this book about

1416
01:20:07,320 --> 01:20:10,439
Speaker 3: Mike Nichols what happened on the set or in the

1417
01:20:10,479 --> 01:20:14,479
Speaker 3: casting of this movie. There's also a really a really

1418
01:20:14,560 --> 01:20:17,280
Speaker 3: funny part. Mike Nichols is also such a son of

1419
01:20:17,280 --> 01:20:20,679
Speaker 3: a bitch on the set. So there's this point where

1420
01:20:21,600 --> 01:20:26,080
Speaker 3: the writer of the film said, I don't like his glasses,

1421
01:20:27,520 --> 01:20:29,760
Speaker 3: said Samu Stine, the film editor who had become one

1422
01:20:29,800 --> 01:20:33,880
Speaker 3: of Nichols's closest creative partners. Mike said that they fit

1423
01:20:33,960 --> 01:20:38,320
Speaker 3: Burton's character. So Ernie said, well, what if it comes

1424
01:20:38,320 --> 01:20:40,080
Speaker 3: to the last day and we have to go one way,

1425
01:20:40,120 --> 01:20:42,800
Speaker 3: and I don't want him to wear the glasses. Well

1426
01:20:42,920 --> 01:20:44,200
Speaker 3: said Mike, I'll kill you.

1427
01:20:49,479 --> 01:20:50,920
Speaker 1: He's gotta wear the glasses.

1428
01:20:51,439 --> 01:20:53,040
Speaker 2: Oh god, it's just.

1429
01:20:53,000 --> 01:20:55,320
Speaker 3: So fucking funny, like I'll just kill you, Like imagine

1430
01:20:55,360 --> 01:20:57,439
Speaker 3: a fucking director just being like, I will murder the

1431
01:20:57,479 --> 01:20:58,719
Speaker 3: writer if they don't.

1432
01:20:58,520 --> 01:20:59,160
Speaker 1: Agree with this.

1433
01:21:00,080 --> 01:21:03,240
Speaker 3: And there was also a lot of weirdness on the set,

1434
01:21:03,400 --> 01:21:07,879
Speaker 3: particularly from Burton and Taylor. There was I guess apparently

1435
01:21:07,880 --> 01:21:10,600
Speaker 3: they wouldn't They wouldn't come to set before ten and

1436
01:21:10,600 --> 01:21:15,320
Speaker 3: they would leave at six. So Mike Nichols says, and

1437
01:21:15,360 --> 01:21:17,599
Speaker 3: again this comes from his book, from the book about

1438
01:21:17,680 --> 01:21:21,360
Speaker 3: him by Mark Harris, they wouldn't come to set before

1439
01:21:21,360 --> 01:21:24,280
Speaker 3: ten or after six. Their epic meal breaks, which continued

1440
01:21:24,320 --> 01:21:28,519
Speaker 3: from rehearsal straight through the film's production, would eventually drive

1441
01:21:28,600 --> 01:21:34,200
Speaker 3: the film hugely over budget and thirty days overschedule. The

1442
01:21:34,240 --> 01:21:39,240
Speaker 3: delays incensed Nichols. He'd walk around saying, cocksuckers. I hate

1443
01:21:39,280 --> 01:21:45,479
Speaker 3: their fucking guts. So the energy of the film, in

1444
01:21:45,560 --> 01:21:48,479
Speaker 3: the making of the film very much translates to what

1445
01:21:48,520 --> 01:21:49,919
Speaker 3: we're seeing on the screen.

1446
01:21:50,760 --> 01:21:54,440
Speaker 2: Unfortunately, and maybe fortunately.

1447
01:21:54,040 --> 01:21:58,680
Speaker 3: Because it resulted in a pretty phenomenal movie, I think so.

1448
01:21:58,800 --> 01:22:01,640
Speaker 3: All four actors were nominated for Academy Awards when this

1449
01:22:01,680 --> 01:22:06,000
Speaker 3: film came out. Taylor and Burton were nominated for Best Actor,

1450
01:22:06,040 --> 01:22:09,679
Speaker 3: Best Actress, and George Siegel and Sandy Dennis we were

1451
01:22:09,760 --> 01:22:14,320
Speaker 3: nominated for Best Support for supporting Oscars and Elizabeth Taylor

1452
01:22:14,320 --> 01:22:18,479
Speaker 3: and Sandy Dennis won, which was huge for this film. Again,

1453
01:22:18,800 --> 01:22:22,400
Speaker 3: very controversial movie. Jack Blenti, who was the president of

1454
01:22:22,439 --> 01:22:25,880
Speaker 3: the Motion Picture Association of America at the time, said

1455
01:22:26,200 --> 01:22:29,000
Speaker 3: it was the first controversial, controversial film he had to

1456
01:22:29,040 --> 01:22:31,759
Speaker 3: deal with, and it was mostly due to the language.

1457
01:22:33,000 --> 01:22:36,120
Speaker 3: So they had a lot of like he kind of

1458
01:22:36,520 --> 01:22:38,840
Speaker 3: there are a lot of conversations about it, and they

1459
01:22:39,080 --> 01:22:43,640
Speaker 3: capitulated on including Hump the Hostess but leaving out the

1460
01:22:43,640 --> 01:22:48,559
Speaker 3: words screw, and he said it was it was a

1461
01:22:48,600 --> 01:22:51,040
Speaker 3: retention of Hump the Hostess. But I was very uneasy

1462
01:22:51,080 --> 01:22:54,679
Speaker 3: over the meeting. So people were having a fucking heart

1463
01:22:54,680 --> 01:22:55,960
Speaker 3: attack making this movie.

1464
01:22:56,240 --> 01:22:56,880
Speaker 2: In terms of the.

1465
01:22:56,800 --> 01:22:59,720
Speaker 3: Play, lots of people have starred in the play. In

1466
01:22:59,800 --> 01:23:02,719
Speaker 3: the teen seventy, which is four years after this came out, Apparently,

1467
01:23:02,800 --> 01:23:06,360
Speaker 3: Henry Fonda and Richard Burton attempted to recruit Warren Batty

1468
01:23:06,400 --> 01:23:12,880
Speaker 3: and John Voight for an all male production, but Edwett Alby.

1469
01:23:11,439 --> 01:23:12,840
Speaker 2: Edward Albie refused.

1470
01:23:14,760 --> 01:23:17,280
Speaker 3: Just imagine Henry Fonda and Richard Burton be like, you

1471
01:23:17,280 --> 01:23:19,280
Speaker 3: know what we need to do, get Baby and Voight,

1472
01:23:19,400 --> 01:23:21,000
Speaker 3: and we have no women in this.

1473
01:23:21,920 --> 01:23:27,200
Speaker 1: So okay, back the fuck up here. I've literally never

1474
01:23:27,600 --> 01:23:31,040
Speaker 1: heard about this. So were they saying, let's do an

1475
01:23:31,080 --> 01:23:33,600
Speaker 1: all male version, as in the characters, we're gonna be

1476
01:23:33,640 --> 01:23:34,320
Speaker 1: like gay men?

1477
01:23:35,360 --> 01:23:37,320
Speaker 2: Listen? I don't I think so?

1478
01:23:38,040 --> 01:23:43,719
Speaker 3: This comes from Barbara Lee Horne wrote something called Edward

1479
01:23:43,760 --> 01:23:47,360
Speaker 3: Alby a research and production source book, and that is

1480
01:23:47,360 --> 01:23:48,040
Speaker 3: the only.

1481
01:23:47,880 --> 01:23:53,240
Speaker 2: Factoid that I took out of that. But yes, I

1482
01:23:53,240 --> 01:23:54,320
Speaker 2: think it was either supposed.

1483
01:23:54,400 --> 01:23:56,000
Speaker 3: I mean, there's no way they could do it without

1484
01:23:56,040 --> 01:24:00,600
Speaker 3: them being homosexual couples.

1485
01:23:58,880 --> 01:24:05,400
Speaker 1: Like, uh okay now, oh my head is spinning now, bitch?

1486
01:24:05,600 --> 01:24:05,920
Speaker 3: All right?

1487
01:24:06,320 --> 01:24:11,000
Speaker 1: So are they saying that Henry Fonda and Burton would

1488
01:24:11,040 --> 01:24:15,320
Speaker 1: be the Martha and George? Yes, and that John Voight

1489
01:24:15,439 --> 01:24:18,640
Speaker 1: and Warren Baby would be the Nick and Honey?

1490
01:24:18,600 --> 01:24:18,800
Speaker 2: Yes?

1491
01:24:18,920 --> 01:24:20,840
Speaker 1: Oh my god.

1492
01:24:21,000 --> 01:24:23,320
Speaker 3: I would watch that now, Rest in peace, Richard Burton,

1493
01:24:23,320 --> 01:24:25,040
Speaker 3: but I dig him up. I'd watch it right now.

1494
01:24:25,520 --> 01:24:30,800
Speaker 1: Okay. I I gotta figure this out. Warren Baby would

1495
01:24:30,800 --> 01:24:33,719
Speaker 1: definitely be Honey, like he would be the Sandy Deis

1496
01:24:33,760 --> 01:24:37,439
Speaker 1: Dennis character. John Voyd would make a good Nick would

1497
01:24:37,439 --> 01:24:39,600
Speaker 1: make a good George sigal.

1498
01:24:40,120 --> 01:24:42,200
Speaker 3: Voight would be Honey because he's got that like think

1499
01:24:42,240 --> 01:24:45,680
Speaker 3: about you know, the Innocence of Midnight Cowboy, and it's

1500
01:24:45,720 --> 01:24:46,880
Speaker 3: kind of all shock.

1501
01:24:48,280 --> 01:24:50,559
Speaker 1: I was just thinking hair, but then you know, I

1502
01:24:50,560 --> 01:24:52,720
Speaker 1: guess I guess Sandy Dennis had blonde hair too, so

1503
01:24:52,800 --> 01:24:54,840
Speaker 1: it guess it didn't matter. I would just I would

1504
01:24:54,920 --> 01:24:59,640
Speaker 1: just love to see Warren Baby do that that scream

1505
01:25:00,120 --> 01:25:08,360
Speaker 1: of when with the gun umbrella. I really I'm shook

1506
01:25:08,360 --> 01:25:13,519
Speaker 1: about Henry Fonda. Yeah, so who would be Martha?

1507
01:25:14,040 --> 01:25:16,280
Speaker 2: And I feel like Burton would be Martha.

1508
01:25:16,880 --> 01:25:19,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, he'd have to swap, like because.

1509
01:25:19,439 --> 01:25:24,040
Speaker 3: Burton famous drunk. I gotta say, like he can't eat.

1510
01:25:24,120 --> 01:25:26,240
Speaker 3: They're both pretty drunk in this film. But I feel

1511
01:25:26,240 --> 01:25:27,360
Speaker 3: like you'd be a better Martha.

1512
01:25:28,640 --> 01:25:34,080
Speaker 1: Yeah. He This is so fascinating to me. I'd never

1513
01:25:34,120 --> 01:25:37,559
Speaker 1: heard that before, and yeah, now my life is completely changed.

1514
01:25:37,600 --> 01:25:42,000
Speaker 1: What a watershed moment for my personal life. Wow. That's amazing.

1515
01:25:43,120 --> 01:25:47,000
Speaker 2: Robert Lee Horn set in the straight Wow. Wow again.

1516
01:25:47,320 --> 01:25:48,920
Speaker 3: In terms of the play, there have been lots of

1517
01:25:48,960 --> 01:25:53,000
Speaker 3: actors like Colleen Doers and Ben Gazara did a production

1518
01:25:53,240 --> 01:25:56,559
Speaker 3: a Broadway revival of it in seventy six, Mike Nichols

1519
01:25:56,560 --> 01:25:59,400
Speaker 3: and Elaine May actually starting a production in nineteen eighty,

1520
01:25:59,880 --> 01:26:03,519
Speaker 3: and Diana Rigg and David Siouche starred in a nineteen

1521
01:26:03,640 --> 01:26:05,360
Speaker 3: ninety six production in London.

1522
01:26:05,760 --> 01:26:08,120
Speaker 2: And to quote No Fielding in one of my favorite

1523
01:26:08,120 --> 01:26:12,040
Speaker 2: seasons of task Master, David Sooche is known as Poirot

1524
01:26:12,160 --> 01:26:15,880
Speaker 2: to you lot. He got David Sooche to sign a Broadbean,

1525
01:26:16,200 --> 01:26:20,160
Speaker 2: Sousche and a Broadbean. So it's had like these incredible

1526
01:26:20,160 --> 01:26:23,360
Speaker 2: actors who have been influenced by this film. And I

1527
01:26:23,360 --> 01:26:27,680
Speaker 2: think this film was very influential to other filmmakers like

1528
01:26:27,800 --> 01:26:29,400
Speaker 2: you know, Todd Haynes and like a bunch of people

1529
01:26:29,400 --> 01:26:31,880
Speaker 2: that have said it was influential to them, And I

1530
01:26:31,880 --> 01:26:34,839
Speaker 2: think it's because it's about marriage in its most awful moment,

1531
01:26:35,960 --> 01:26:38,479
Speaker 2: and it's kind of examining the state of the union

1532
01:26:38,520 --> 01:26:41,559
Speaker 2: when the union has soured or when the union is

1533
01:26:41,560 --> 01:26:45,320
Speaker 2: not working, and that's evident from the first fucking line.

1534
01:26:45,680 --> 01:26:48,280
Speaker 2: So Elizabeth Taylor walks into you know, Martha walks into

1535
01:26:48,320 --> 01:26:52,640
Speaker 2: their house and just says what a dump? Ha ha,

1536
01:26:53,040 --> 01:26:55,479
Speaker 2: And she's like a stay at all, She's like a housewife,

1537
01:26:55,520 --> 01:26:57,599
Speaker 2: and she's like, what a dump. But she doesn't even

1538
01:26:57,600 --> 01:26:58,920
Speaker 2: blame herself of that moment.

1539
01:26:58,960 --> 01:27:03,599
Speaker 3: She's just instantly already being so acerbic about the space

1540
01:27:03,640 --> 01:27:07,040
Speaker 3: they live in. And it comes to what comes to

1541
01:27:07,080 --> 01:27:09,519
Speaker 3: fruition later in the film, as you get closer and

1542
01:27:09,520 --> 01:27:11,760
Speaker 3: closer to these characters and learn more and more about them,

1543
01:27:12,360 --> 01:27:15,639
Speaker 3: is she's unhappy with her life overall because she thought

1544
01:27:15,680 --> 01:27:18,680
Speaker 3: that George would be more successful or successful in a

1545
01:27:18,680 --> 01:27:22,320
Speaker 3: way that mirrored her father. So she just walks in

1546
01:27:22,360 --> 01:27:24,520
Speaker 3: and says, what a dump, And it's like a condemnation

1547
01:27:24,800 --> 01:27:28,080
Speaker 3: of their whole life together, not just the house they

1548
01:27:28,080 --> 01:27:30,360
Speaker 3: live in. Then she does one of my favorite things

1549
01:27:30,360 --> 01:27:33,479
Speaker 3: in the world. She opens the fridge blows cigarette smoke

1550
01:27:33,600 --> 01:27:36,920
Speaker 3: right into the refrigerator before grabbing a chicken drumstick and

1551
01:27:37,000 --> 01:27:37,519
Speaker 3: just eating it.

1552
01:27:38,120 --> 01:27:43,439
Speaker 1: Yep, my classic classic eat acting. I will say, one

1553
01:27:43,479 --> 01:27:46,719
Speaker 1: of my favorite last acting moments. You know, it's funny

1554
01:27:46,760 --> 01:27:48,680
Speaker 1: because you know that whole like what a dump thing,

1555
01:27:49,000 --> 01:27:50,719
Speaker 1: you know, she talks about it being from a Betty

1556
01:27:50,840 --> 01:27:54,080
Speaker 1: Davis movie, and then I forgot. I was like, what

1557
01:27:54,200 --> 01:27:57,120
Speaker 1: Betty Davis movie was she in with Joseph Cotton, And

1558
01:27:57,160 --> 01:27:59,719
Speaker 1: then I was like, I thought it was Petrified for Us,

1559
01:27:59,800 --> 01:28:01,559
Speaker 1: but she was in that movie too, but it was

1560
01:28:01,600 --> 01:28:04,920
Speaker 1: actually called Beyond the Forest. And then I watched the

1561
01:28:05,000 --> 01:28:09,400
Speaker 1: original clip from it, and it's funny because Elizabeth Taylor

1562
01:28:09,439 --> 01:28:12,320
Speaker 1: does the thing where she's like, what a dump, and

1563
01:28:12,360 --> 01:28:14,760
Speaker 1: then when you watch actual Betty Davis saying it, she

1564
01:28:14,880 --> 01:28:18,320
Speaker 1: just goes what a dump? Like she doesn't even say

1565
01:28:18,360 --> 01:28:21,519
Speaker 1: it in the way that Elizabeth Taylor says it. So

1566
01:28:21,560 --> 01:28:23,599
Speaker 1: it's just really funny. When you watched an original clip,

1567
01:28:23,600 --> 01:28:26,639
Speaker 1: you're like, oh, Elizabeth Taylor was not acting like Betty Davis.

1568
01:28:26,640 --> 01:28:29,760
Speaker 1: She was acting like herself exactly, saying oh, thing that

1569
01:28:29,800 --> 01:28:31,479
Speaker 1: Betty Davis had once said in a film.

1570
01:28:32,160 --> 01:28:34,000
Speaker 3: And then she's like, what is that from? Like she's

1571
01:28:34,000 --> 01:28:35,920
Speaker 3: like kind of badgering him, like what is that from?

1572
01:28:36,120 --> 01:28:38,320
Speaker 2: What is that? She wouldn't name the film, but she's like,

1573
01:28:38,600 --> 01:28:39,439
Speaker 2: where did I get that?

1574
01:28:40,160 --> 01:28:42,240
Speaker 3: It was like that was conjured up in your own

1575
01:28:42,280 --> 01:28:45,479
Speaker 3: head because she didn't say it like that. Yeah, it's funny,

1576
01:28:46,080 --> 01:28:49,320
Speaker 3: but what's evident from first line as soon as you

1577
01:28:49,360 --> 01:28:52,600
Speaker 3: meet Martha is that she is scornful, but it's a

1578
01:28:52,680 --> 01:28:55,880
Speaker 3: kind of scorn that's just laced with disappointment. So her

1579
01:28:55,880 --> 01:28:58,679
Speaker 3: father is the president of the university where George works,

1580
01:28:59,200 --> 01:29:01,519
Speaker 3: and she did it expect him to have more success,

1581
01:29:01,520 --> 01:29:05,559
Speaker 3: so she kind of emasculates him constantly, and it's mostly

1582
01:29:05,600 --> 01:29:09,280
Speaker 3: about his inability to be groomed by her father to

1583
01:29:09,360 --> 01:29:13,000
Speaker 3: one day rise in the ranks. And there's also something

1584
01:29:13,000 --> 01:29:15,160
Speaker 3: weird about they keep mentioning their son, and there's something

1585
01:29:15,200 --> 01:29:18,000
Speaker 3: weird about their son that you find out what's weird

1586
01:29:18,000 --> 01:29:20,559
Speaker 3: about it in the last moments of the film, So

1587
01:29:20,600 --> 01:29:22,519
Speaker 3: I'm not going to spoil that, but I will say

1588
01:29:22,520 --> 01:29:26,480
Speaker 3: that it highlights and kind of moderately explains their relationship.

1589
01:29:26,920 --> 01:29:32,360
Speaker 3: So this is a relationship where they are blatantly honest

1590
01:29:32,360 --> 01:29:34,400
Speaker 3: with each other to the point where they hurt each

1591
01:29:34,400 --> 01:29:38,000
Speaker 3: other's feelings all the time, and they've made up a

1592
01:29:38,040 --> 01:29:41,439
Speaker 3: lot of stories about their relationship to get through it,

1593
01:29:41,479 --> 01:29:44,640
Speaker 3: which I think is really interesting. I've never seen that

1594
01:29:44,800 --> 01:29:47,760
Speaker 3: kind of relationship before, where they are both kind of

1595
01:29:48,360 --> 01:29:51,920
Speaker 3: selling themselves the same lie or the same fiction as

1596
01:29:51,920 --> 01:29:53,880
Speaker 3: a way to understand why they're still together.

1597
01:29:54,640 --> 01:29:57,639
Speaker 2: George is definitely a mean drunk, but.

1598
01:29:57,600 --> 01:29:59,760
Speaker 3: He's also kind of funny, Like one of the first

1599
01:29:59,760 --> 01:30:02,160
Speaker 3: things he says to Martha is that he can't stand

1600
01:30:02,240 --> 01:30:08,439
Speaker 3: her subhuman monster yowling. Like the way they talk to

1601
01:30:08,520 --> 01:30:11,720
Speaker 3: each other is so shocking in the beginning. But there

1602
01:30:11,800 --> 01:30:14,360
Speaker 3: is a point in this movie where he says a

1603
01:30:14,439 --> 01:30:17,400
Speaker 3: line that is so fucking funny that it's something I

1604
01:30:17,439 --> 01:30:19,880
Speaker 3: say to myself in my own head all the time,

1605
01:30:20,760 --> 01:30:22,240
Speaker 3: and it is this, I.

1606
01:30:22,160 --> 01:30:24,080
Speaker 2: Said, I'm impressed, what do you want me to do?

1607
01:30:24,160 --> 01:30:29,519
Speaker 2: Throw up? Like he is, just like, I'm not going

1608
01:30:29,600 --> 01:30:32,360
Speaker 2: to give you what you need or want at any moment.

1609
01:30:32,200 --> 01:30:35,000
Speaker 3: Including in my reactions to things. And then there's a

1610
01:30:35,120 --> 01:30:39,640
Speaker 3: very funny scene where they eventually take the night gravitates

1611
01:30:39,680 --> 01:30:43,360
Speaker 3: to this bar and he says to Honey, the Sandy

1612
01:30:43,400 --> 01:30:46,479
Speaker 3: Dennis character, you want to dance angel boobs, And it's

1613
01:30:46,560 --> 01:30:48,760
Speaker 3: just so weird and funny, Like, I don't know, I

1614
01:30:48,800 --> 01:30:51,479
Speaker 3: find a lot of what he says very comical. It's

1615
01:30:51,520 --> 01:30:54,240
Speaker 3: either a rise a line between either being deeply comical

1616
01:30:54,360 --> 01:30:57,479
Speaker 3: or incredibly cruel, and it's very interesting.

1617
01:30:58,200 --> 01:31:00,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, he's definitely more of the kind of like simmering

1618
01:31:01,120 --> 01:31:05,959
Speaker 1: pot character like, and to me, that just was funnier,

1619
01:31:06,080 --> 01:31:07,479
Speaker 1: Like you know what I mean, Like where you're like,

1620
01:31:07,520 --> 01:31:10,280
Speaker 1: here's a guy who's so fucking resentful that he can

1621
01:31:10,360 --> 01:31:12,080
Speaker 1: barely speak.

1622
01:31:12,320 --> 01:31:16,479
Speaker 3: You know, exactly exactly, and when he does speak, so

1623
01:31:16,520 --> 01:31:19,559
Speaker 3: this you know they've just left this party. Her dad

1624
01:31:19,600 --> 01:31:23,160
Speaker 3: asked Martha to invite this young couple over, so she does,

1625
01:31:23,240 --> 01:31:25,400
Speaker 3: and we find out that, you know, Nick and Honey

1626
01:31:25,840 --> 01:31:28,320
Speaker 3: are married and they don't have any children, and Nick

1627
01:31:28,400 --> 01:31:30,760
Speaker 3: is the one of the new professors at the university.

1628
01:31:31,200 --> 01:31:33,559
Speaker 3: And from the moment they arrived, they're trying to leave.

1629
01:31:33,840 --> 01:31:36,800
Speaker 3: They're like, oh shit, we did not want this, Like

1630
01:31:36,800 --> 01:31:39,479
Speaker 3: we didn't think we're coming into this. But as the

1631
01:31:39,479 --> 01:31:41,519
Speaker 3: movie goes on, like you were saying that, you know,

1632
01:31:41,640 --> 01:31:43,840
Speaker 3: George's reluction to talk. But as the movie goes on,

1633
01:31:43,920 --> 01:31:47,400
Speaker 3: there's a scene between Nick and George where they're completely

1634
01:31:47,439 --> 01:31:52,400
Speaker 3: drunk and they're outside and they're talking, and George tells

1635
01:31:52,400 --> 01:31:57,080
Speaker 3: a story about a guy who accidentally shot his mother

1636
01:31:57,320 --> 01:32:00,000
Speaker 3: and then accidentally killed his father in a car accident,

1637
01:32:00,760 --> 01:32:03,000
Speaker 3: and we come to find out there is more relevance

1638
01:32:03,040 --> 01:32:08,240
Speaker 3: to that story than he's letting on. And Nick reveals

1639
01:32:08,400 --> 01:32:12,639
Speaker 3: that he only married Honey because he thought she was pregnant,

1640
01:32:13,120 --> 01:32:16,439
Speaker 3: but it turned out to be a hysterical pregnancy, so

1641
01:32:16,479 --> 01:32:17,840
Speaker 3: she wasn't pregnant at all.

1642
01:32:18,520 --> 01:32:19,240
Speaker 2: And as you're.

1643
01:32:19,120 --> 01:32:23,200
Speaker 3: Watching the movie, there's something for me that hits as

1644
01:32:23,240 --> 01:32:27,280
Speaker 3: you're watching Honey become more and more drunk, which she

1645
01:32:27,360 --> 01:32:32,360
Speaker 3: does very quickly, and Nick also becomes drunk, but he's

1646
01:32:32,439 --> 01:32:36,760
Speaker 3: more stoic about it. But there's something about Honey where

1647
01:32:36,760 --> 01:32:39,200
Speaker 3: there's even a point where she goes to the bathroom

1648
01:32:39,200 --> 01:32:40,719
Speaker 3: and comes back and like the front of her shirt

1649
01:32:40,760 --> 01:32:43,799
Speaker 3: is wet, so you can tell she's been vomiting, where

1650
01:32:44,120 --> 01:32:48,800
Speaker 3: you're kind of looking at the progression of time. And

1651
01:32:48,840 --> 01:32:51,439
Speaker 3: there was a point of the movie where I thought

1652
01:32:52,439 --> 01:32:56,360
Speaker 3: this younger couple is emblematic of what could happen to

1653
01:32:56,400 --> 01:32:59,800
Speaker 3: them if we look at the George and Martha relationship.

1654
01:33:00,120 --> 01:33:01,880
Speaker 3: So you're kind of seeing these this like, you know,

1655
01:33:02,880 --> 01:33:05,120
Speaker 3: mirror image of time, but it's a very it's some

1656
01:33:05,120 --> 01:33:07,960
Speaker 3: one of those fun house mirrors where this young innocent

1657
01:33:08,000 --> 01:33:13,000
Speaker 3: couple is now put into this world and Martha and

1658
01:33:13,040 --> 01:33:16,000
Speaker 3: George are very inadvertently showing them like this could this

1659
01:33:16,040 --> 01:33:17,760
Speaker 3: is what could happen to your marriage in twenty or

1660
01:33:17,760 --> 01:33:18,320
Speaker 3: thirty years.

1661
01:33:18,479 --> 01:33:20,519
Speaker 1: Yeah, I was gonna say, fast forward twenty years and

1662
01:33:20,520 --> 01:33:24,360
Speaker 1: that's them the dynamic is the same. It's like, you know,

1663
01:33:24,479 --> 01:33:29,640
Speaker 1: Honey is the hysterical drunk, and you know Nick is

1664
01:33:29,680 --> 01:33:33,120
Speaker 1: the more quiet, reserve, simmering pot drunk. Right, It's like,

1665
01:33:33,840 --> 01:33:36,479
Speaker 1: you know, I mean to you know, to me, it's

1666
01:33:36,560 --> 01:33:38,519
Speaker 1: like what you said at the very beginning, which is that, like,

1667
01:33:40,000 --> 01:33:41,720
Speaker 1: why are you going over to a married couple's house

1668
01:33:41,760 --> 01:33:44,479
Speaker 1: at two am? That's on you, Like, if you didn't

1669
01:33:44,479 --> 01:33:46,960
Speaker 1: want to glimpse into this life, y'all shouldn't have went there.

1670
01:33:47,760 --> 01:33:51,519
Speaker 1: Should have said listen, I understand, we gotta be nice,

1671
01:33:51,600 --> 01:33:55,479
Speaker 1: but two am with this drunk, married couple, Hey.

1672
01:33:55,840 --> 01:33:59,000
Speaker 2: Maybe we just have coffee first. We'll start with coffee,

1673
01:33:59,360 --> 01:33:59,840
Speaker 2: because if.

1674
01:33:59,720 --> 01:34:02,120
Speaker 3: You're if a couple is inviting you to their house

1675
01:34:02,120 --> 01:34:05,160
Speaker 3: at two am, they are either already beyond the pale

1676
01:34:05,240 --> 01:34:06,599
Speaker 3: drunk or they want to swing.

1677
01:34:07,200 --> 01:34:09,240
Speaker 1: Yeah. I was gonna say, either they're trying to get

1678
01:34:09,280 --> 01:34:12,519
Speaker 1: you guys in on a group thing, or they're about

1679
01:34:12,600 --> 01:34:19,160
Speaker 1: to disintegrate in front of you. So you take.

1680
01:34:19,720 --> 01:34:20,800
Speaker 2: Your chances with this.

1681
01:34:21,680 --> 01:34:23,680
Speaker 3: And it is interesting that there is a point in

1682
01:34:23,720 --> 01:34:25,560
Speaker 3: the movie where after the bar, you know, because the

1683
01:34:25,600 --> 01:34:31,000
Speaker 3: bar is very explosive for both couples, and Martha and

1684
01:34:31,080 --> 01:34:36,160
Speaker 3: Nick go off together, and Honey is left with George,

1685
01:34:36,400 --> 01:34:41,639
Speaker 3: and there's this insinuation that Nick and Martha are having sex,

1686
01:34:43,120 --> 01:34:45,720
Speaker 3: but then it kind of has explained very loosely that

1687
01:34:45,840 --> 01:34:47,080
Speaker 3: he couldn't get it up.

1688
01:34:48,000 --> 01:34:49,679
Speaker 2: So she starts calling him like her.

1689
01:34:49,560 --> 01:34:53,599
Speaker 3: Houseboy, and like she's very cruel to him, and it's

1690
01:34:53,640 --> 01:34:55,600
Speaker 3: almost like sex is a gateway for her to be

1691
01:34:55,680 --> 01:34:59,360
Speaker 3: really mean to men, which I got to say, legendary,

1692
01:35:03,760 --> 01:35:07,439
Speaker 3: truly legendary. She's like, once I've seen your dick, I'm

1693
01:35:07,479 --> 01:35:13,400
Speaker 3: gonna rip you apart. I will level, you'll repeat the shreds.

1694
01:35:13,439 --> 01:35:16,200
Speaker 3: It's really wild. But yeah, so there's all these sinuation

1695
01:35:16,479 --> 01:35:19,880
Speaker 3: insinuations that I think also contributed to the controversy of

1696
01:35:19,920 --> 01:35:23,840
Speaker 3: the movie, where it's very sexual. It's about sex and

1697
01:35:24,080 --> 01:35:27,640
Speaker 3: love and time and all of these complicated dynamics.

1698
01:35:28,360 --> 01:35:30,200
Speaker 2: And you know, Elizabeth Taylor.

1699
01:35:30,520 --> 01:35:32,479
Speaker 3: In the Mike Nichols book, I read that there was

1700
01:35:32,479 --> 01:35:34,880
Speaker 3: a point where she was like really proud of her

1701
01:35:34,960 --> 01:35:37,479
Speaker 3: belly and was like showing it to Sandy Dens at

1702
01:35:37,560 --> 01:35:40,880
Speaker 3: some point. And Sandy Dennis hadn't done any major films.

1703
01:35:40,920 --> 01:35:43,120
Speaker 3: She had been a theater actress before this, so this

1704
01:35:43,240 --> 01:35:45,519
Speaker 3: is kind of a you know, an introductory role for

1705
01:35:45,600 --> 01:35:48,000
Speaker 3: her and what a set to beyond for like one

1706
01:35:48,040 --> 01:35:52,759
Speaker 3: of your first big film roles. But she, Elizabeth Taylor,

1707
01:35:52,840 --> 01:35:55,800
Speaker 3: is just kind of unhinged in this movie, and I

1708
01:35:55,880 --> 01:35:59,519
Speaker 3: think that's part of, you know, the controversy, which I

1709
01:35:59,560 --> 01:36:03,719
Speaker 3: haven't really seen discussed in depth, maybe in an academic sense,

1710
01:36:03,800 --> 01:36:06,320
Speaker 3: but I think that part of the controversy, part of

1711
01:36:06,360 --> 01:36:11,080
Speaker 3: the controversy is that Elizabeth Taylor was very unbridled in

1712
01:36:11,240 --> 01:36:17,240
Speaker 3: this film and was wantonly sexy and was indicating that

1713
01:36:17,320 --> 01:36:21,200
Speaker 3: she wanted to have sex with somebody, whether her husband

1714
01:36:21,240 --> 01:36:23,120
Speaker 3: or Nick or some she wanted to have sex with somebody.

1715
01:36:23,840 --> 01:36:28,200
Speaker 3: And I think that a lot of her pain, which

1716
01:36:28,240 --> 01:36:30,960
Speaker 3: reminded me of scenes from the marriage scenes from a Marriage,

1717
01:36:31,000 --> 01:36:34,400
Speaker 3: a lot part of her pain in life is that

1718
01:36:35,120 --> 01:36:39,360
Speaker 3: she wasn't exactly sexually compatible with her husband, like he

1719
01:36:39,520 --> 01:36:45,400
Speaker 3: was much lower energy than she was, and in scenes

1720
01:36:45,439 --> 01:36:47,720
Speaker 3: from a Marriage, it's kind of the opposite way where

1721
01:36:47,720 --> 01:36:49,800
Speaker 3: he's like, I'm very sexual and you know, you don't

1722
01:36:49,840 --> 01:36:50,360
Speaker 3: understand me.

1723
01:36:51,800 --> 01:36:54,360
Speaker 2: So I think that I don't know.

1724
01:36:54,439 --> 01:36:56,840
Speaker 3: I just I think it's interesting that they were able

1725
01:36:56,880 --> 01:36:59,000
Speaker 3: in nineteen sixty six to kind of put something like

1726
01:36:59,120 --> 01:37:02,880
Speaker 3: this committed to film and have one of the world's

1727
01:37:02,960 --> 01:37:04,479
Speaker 3: biggest stars scene.

1728
01:37:05,439 --> 01:37:12,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think you cannot overstate the idea of this

1729
01:37:12,479 --> 01:37:16,080
Speaker 1: was essentially like the first time that Elizabeth Taylor wasn't

1730
01:37:16,520 --> 01:37:21,280
Speaker 1: this ingenu role, you know what I mean, Like this

1731
01:37:21,520 --> 01:37:26,000
Speaker 1: was kind of the beginning of her like later period

1732
01:37:26,080 --> 01:37:28,960
Speaker 1: of films. Of course, I love you know, we've talked

1733
01:37:28,960 --> 01:37:31,680
Speaker 1: about this before, but in that way where like she

1734
01:37:31,960 --> 01:37:35,680
Speaker 1: was loud and crass and vulgar and wasted and like

1735
01:37:35,920 --> 01:37:40,120
Speaker 1: you know, cussing up a storm and being overly sexual

1736
01:37:40,240 --> 01:37:40,880
Speaker 1: and that kind of stuff.

1737
01:37:40,880 --> 01:37:41,360
Speaker 2: And I think.

1738
01:37:42,800 --> 01:37:46,040
Speaker 1: People hadn't really thought of her in that way like before.

1739
01:37:46,240 --> 01:37:49,320
Speaker 1: I mean, like before this, she was in like Cleopatra

1740
01:37:49,800 --> 01:37:52,840
Speaker 1: and you know what I mean, like the Sandpiper and

1741
01:37:53,000 --> 01:37:54,600
Speaker 1: that kind of stuff, which is that you know, she

1742
01:37:54,800 --> 01:37:59,160
Speaker 1: was much more demror and much more like classic Elizabeth Taylor.

1743
01:37:59,240 --> 01:38:02,640
Speaker 1: And so I think people were shocked to see her

1744
01:38:02,760 --> 01:38:06,000
Speaker 1: act like that and look like that, and you know,

1745
01:38:06,240 --> 01:38:09,200
Speaker 1: and I just I think that is absolutely part of

1746
01:38:09,200 --> 01:38:12,160
Speaker 1: a controversy too, you know, to your point, which is

1747
01:38:12,240 --> 01:38:14,280
Speaker 1: that you know, here's a woman who is becoming like

1748
01:38:14,640 --> 01:38:17,840
Speaker 1: a real actress, like maybe this is her dark turn film,

1749
01:38:18,560 --> 01:38:20,760
Speaker 1: and people couldn't fucking handle it. They were like, what

1750
01:38:20,960 --> 01:38:22,120
Speaker 1: in the world is going on here?

1751
01:38:22,320 --> 01:38:25,160
Speaker 3: So absolutely, and that's mentioned in the Mike Nichols book

1752
01:38:25,160 --> 01:38:27,120
Speaker 3: as well, where they say, you know that she was

1753
01:38:27,120 --> 01:38:29,479
Speaker 3: at a moment in time when she was filming this

1754
01:38:29,640 --> 01:38:33,479
Speaker 3: movie where she wanted to be taken seriously as an actress.

1755
01:38:33,560 --> 01:38:36,799
Speaker 3: But she knew she was like this kind of national,

1756
01:38:37,280 --> 01:38:40,880
Speaker 3: international superstar, but she wanted to be seen as an

1757
01:38:40,920 --> 01:38:43,720
Speaker 3: actress willing to go the distance, you know, kind of

1758
01:38:43,760 --> 01:38:47,040
Speaker 3: get away from the national velvet sam pecker of it

1759
01:38:47,120 --> 01:38:49,600
Speaker 3: all and kind of move into this place where she's like,

1760
01:38:49,640 --> 01:38:52,559
Speaker 3: I'm a fucking adult woman, and this is some things

1761
01:38:52,600 --> 01:38:56,160
Speaker 3: that I've I can actually attribute a lot of pain

1762
01:38:56,240 --> 01:38:58,519
Speaker 3: in my life to in my relationship with this man

1763
01:38:58,520 --> 01:39:00,840
Speaker 3: who's also on screen with me, you know if it

1764
01:39:00,960 --> 01:39:02,880
Speaker 3: feels very real in that way. And I think that's

1765
01:39:02,880 --> 01:39:05,840
Speaker 3: why people weren't able to really separate the character, because

1766
01:39:05,840 --> 01:39:07,719
Speaker 3: they're like, wow, we can imagine you guys having fights

1767
01:39:07,800 --> 01:39:10,960
Speaker 3: like this. Absolutely, and she's wanting to put that on screen.

1768
01:39:11,720 --> 01:39:13,960
Speaker 3: But she she acted the fuck out of this role.

1769
01:39:14,160 --> 01:39:17,040
Speaker 3: And she's like constantly like yelling and shrieking and throwing

1770
01:39:17,080 --> 01:39:19,879
Speaker 3: her body around and just it's very interesting.

1771
01:39:20,040 --> 01:39:23,080
Speaker 2: It's really dynamic to see her on screen in this way.

1772
01:39:23,200 --> 01:39:24,559
Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure.

1773
01:39:24,680 --> 01:39:25,639
Speaker 2: But I love this movie.

1774
01:39:25,720 --> 01:39:29,240
Speaker 3: I love any movie that's kind of like marriage and kids,

1775
01:39:29,479 --> 01:39:30,479
Speaker 3: not all's cracked up to me.

1776
01:39:33,920 --> 01:39:36,479
Speaker 1: Yes, I think that perspective has been said many times

1777
01:39:36,520 --> 01:39:39,680
Speaker 1: on this podcast. Oh yeah, yeah, what I think is

1778
01:39:39,680 --> 01:39:44,800
Speaker 1: also fascinating too, about there are so many This is

1779
01:39:44,840 --> 01:39:49,320
Speaker 1: a perfect example of where were you when you realize

1780
01:39:49,400 --> 01:39:52,960
Speaker 1: that George Siegel wasn't just the guy from Just Shoot Me,

1781
01:39:53,120 --> 01:39:54,479
Speaker 1: and that he had had a career.

1782
01:39:55,080 --> 01:39:58,559
Speaker 3: Okay, since you're a young person, I'm like the guy

1783
01:39:58,600 --> 01:39:59,599
Speaker 3: from Look Who's talking?

1784
01:39:59,720 --> 01:40:01,320
Speaker 2: Act before Look Who's talking?

1785
01:40:02,720 --> 01:40:03,240
Speaker 3: And then you.

1786
01:40:03,360 --> 01:40:08,000
Speaker 1: Realize, dude, he made so many good fucking movies. Yes,

1787
01:40:08,280 --> 01:40:11,000
Speaker 1: Like then it's like, well, shit, now I got to

1788
01:40:11,040 --> 01:40:13,600
Speaker 1: watch The Hot Rock and al and the Pussycat and

1789
01:40:14,400 --> 01:40:16,759
Speaker 1: Born to Win. I don't know if anybody is watching

1790
01:40:16,960 --> 01:40:21,040
Speaker 1: George Sgal be a junkie, but that's that's out there

1791
01:40:21,120 --> 01:40:23,800
Speaker 1: for you if you want to watch that. But like, yeah,

1792
01:40:23,840 --> 01:40:27,960
Speaker 1: I mean you think, like to modern audiences, it's again

1793
01:40:28,080 --> 01:40:30,400
Speaker 1: that thing where it's like, oh, here's an older actor

1794
01:40:30,560 --> 01:40:34,599
Speaker 1: on a TV show that was actually in a shit

1795
01:40:34,720 --> 01:40:37,760
Speaker 1: ton of classic films and was a young actor and

1796
01:40:38,400 --> 01:40:40,120
Speaker 1: you know, had a whole career. So anyway, I just

1797
01:40:40,240 --> 01:40:43,479
Speaker 1: I love that completely. He's super young in this film.

1798
01:40:43,840 --> 01:40:46,840
Speaker 3: Yeah blonde, and yeah, he's so young, and it is

1799
01:40:47,000 --> 01:40:50,439
Speaker 3: it is wild because you're like, oh, I was introduced

1800
01:40:50,479 --> 01:40:52,479
Speaker 3: to him as an older man because of my age.

1801
01:40:53,800 --> 01:40:55,960
Speaker 3: I was introduced to him as a much older man,

1802
01:40:56,320 --> 01:40:58,160
Speaker 3: and I did not know that he had this career

1803
01:40:58,240 --> 01:40:59,240
Speaker 3: until I saw this movie.

1804
01:41:00,080 --> 01:41:02,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, no kidding, Well, I like, I love this movie too.

1805
01:41:03,160 --> 01:41:07,280
Speaker 1: I mean, I there are people that I know that

1806
01:41:08,680 --> 01:41:13,000
Speaker 1: don't have the patience for this film, which I get

1807
01:41:14,400 --> 01:41:17,280
Speaker 1: because it does feel like a play. It does feel

1808
01:41:17,960 --> 01:41:22,920
Speaker 1: like it's drunk people acting for two hours. But I

1809
01:41:24,040 --> 01:41:28,920
Speaker 1: think it's fascinating and once you find, once you find

1810
01:41:29,840 --> 01:41:33,760
Speaker 1: the dynamics between all these people, you're like, holy shit,

1811
01:41:33,880 --> 01:41:35,640
Speaker 1: this is like a fucking ride, you.

1812
01:41:35,680 --> 01:41:37,440
Speaker 2: Know, absolutely absolutely.

1813
01:41:37,560 --> 01:41:39,479
Speaker 3: And I think a lot of the reviews I read

1814
01:41:39,520 --> 01:41:41,200
Speaker 3: were written by men, and they were so quick to

1815
01:41:41,320 --> 01:41:45,160
Speaker 3: vilify Elizabeth Taylor in this role. And I think that's

1816
01:41:45,200 --> 01:41:47,760
Speaker 3: also the importance of looking going back and looking at

1817
01:41:47,800 --> 01:41:50,080
Speaker 3: films and having different types of people look at films,

1818
01:41:50,160 --> 01:41:53,040
Speaker 3: because you know, white men by and large are not

1819
01:41:53,200 --> 01:41:56,120
Speaker 3: here for a woman yelling at a man. Ever, yeah,

1820
01:41:56,280 --> 01:41:58,160
Speaker 3: like and in the day that this came out, they

1821
01:41:58,200 --> 01:42:02,320
Speaker 3: were like, this is the worst we've ever fucking seen. Yeah,

1822
01:42:02,360 --> 01:42:04,400
Speaker 3: So they weren't able to appreciate the type what she

1823
01:42:04,520 --> 01:42:06,320
Speaker 3: was bringing to the scene, and they were very sympathetic

1824
01:42:06,400 --> 01:42:10,880
Speaker 3: towards the Burton character of George and very condemning of

1825
01:42:10,960 --> 01:42:14,280
Speaker 3: the Tailor character. But I think that in its time

1826
01:42:14,520 --> 01:42:19,400
Speaker 3: and even present day, it has definitely showcased something spectacular.

1827
01:42:19,560 --> 01:42:21,519
Speaker 3: Like you said, you're on a ride, and the more

1828
01:42:21,560 --> 01:42:24,120
Speaker 3: that this reveals about the characters as the movie goes on,

1829
01:42:25,080 --> 01:42:26,519
Speaker 3: the more interesting that ride becomes.

1830
01:42:27,120 --> 01:42:29,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean to the to the earlier point about

1831
01:42:30,200 --> 01:42:33,040
Speaker 1: you know these like chamber dramas, these chamber films, I

1832
01:42:33,120 --> 01:42:36,639
Speaker 1: think it's actually like a pretty difficult task to make

1833
01:42:36,840 --> 01:42:43,720
Speaker 1: people care about this very small story, right, because it's like,

1834
01:42:43,840 --> 01:42:47,080
Speaker 1: for the most part, like entertainment is usually very you

1835
01:42:47,160 --> 01:42:53,320
Speaker 1: know big, you know, lots of characters, lots of you know, storylines.

1836
01:42:53,400 --> 01:42:55,599
Speaker 1: That's this. But the idea that you can make people

1837
01:42:55,680 --> 01:42:59,599
Speaker 1: sit there for two hours plus and care about four

1838
01:42:59,680 --> 01:43:03,639
Speaker 1: people ostensibly is I think that's great and it's fascinating.

1839
01:43:03,640 --> 01:43:07,560
Speaker 1: It's a testament to how well the play is the

1840
01:43:08,320 --> 01:43:11,280
Speaker 1: how well the actors are and how well Mike Nichols

1841
01:43:11,320 --> 01:43:13,400
Speaker 1: makes this movie. I mean, it's I love it.

1842
01:43:14,080 --> 01:43:16,360
Speaker 2: Oh, so this is the best episode.

1843
01:43:17,200 --> 01:43:19,479
Speaker 3: I'm so happy that we had this as a double

1844
01:43:19,560 --> 01:43:24,360
Speaker 3: feat me ew And we do not have a new

1845
01:43:24,439 --> 01:43:28,120
Speaker 3: episode next week, but the week after that we're watching

1846
01:43:28,160 --> 01:43:28,719
Speaker 3: two films.

1847
01:43:29,320 --> 01:43:30,880
Speaker 2: Oh my god, I.

1848
01:43:30,920 --> 01:43:33,479
Speaker 1: Can't even believe we're about to announce these two films.

1849
01:43:35,160 --> 01:43:39,680
Speaker 1: So I am going to try to say this in

1850
01:43:39,960 --> 01:43:47,360
Speaker 1: the proper way, but our films for next week are

1851
01:43:50,200 --> 01:44:00,479
Speaker 1: jen Zielman, is it van vent twah venta Qua to

1852
01:44:00,600 --> 01:44:08,040
Speaker 1: Commerce kay Quay Quay to Commerce ten eighty Brussels from

1853
01:44:08,080 --> 01:44:12,719
Speaker 1: nineteen seventy five. Let's just say that beautiful. I actually

1854
01:44:12,880 --> 01:44:16,799
Speaker 1: was trying to figure out how to say one thousand

1855
01:44:16,840 --> 01:44:19,880
Speaker 1: and eighty in French and now I can't remember.

1856
01:44:19,960 --> 01:44:21,560
Speaker 2: Oh I can help you.

1857
01:44:21,960 --> 01:44:22,479
Speaker 5: Yeah, do it?

1858
01:44:22,600 --> 01:44:22,800
Speaker 4: Do it?

1859
01:44:22,880 --> 01:44:24,920
Speaker 3: Do it. The thing about French numbers that sucks is

1860
01:44:25,000 --> 01:44:29,639
Speaker 3: it's like they do everything fucking backwards. So ten eighty

1861
01:44:29,960 --> 01:44:36,479
Speaker 3: is mel Kotelevan, which is one hundred forty twenties. Yeah,

1862
01:44:36,560 --> 01:44:38,439
Speaker 3: one hundred and four twenties or something like that, Like

1863
01:44:38,520 --> 01:44:39,360
Speaker 3: it's ridiculous.

1864
01:44:40,200 --> 01:44:48,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, I pretty much know the numbers until like twenty five.

1865
01:44:48,840 --> 01:44:49,559
Speaker 2: So exactly.

1866
01:44:50,040 --> 01:44:53,880
Speaker 3: That's then it gets bonkers. But I this is my

1867
01:44:54,080 --> 01:44:56,479
Speaker 3: film for next week, so I had to practice saying it.

1868
01:44:57,360 --> 01:44:59,120
Speaker 1: We'll say it, say it right? Why why am I

1869
01:44:59,160 --> 01:45:06,599
Speaker 1: announcing it? I people say, yeah, let's hear the correct version.

1870
01:45:07,000 --> 01:45:10,519
Speaker 3: So my film, I think native French speakers don't come

1871
01:45:10,600 --> 01:45:14,680
Speaker 3: for me. I'm trying my fucking best is Jean de

1872
01:45:14,800 --> 01:45:23,080
Speaker 3: Lmant than twat kdu camstvan Broussel.

1873
01:45:24,040 --> 01:45:24,400
Speaker 1: There you go.

1874
01:45:25,520 --> 01:45:27,120
Speaker 2: And the other film is The Bad Seed, which is

1875
01:45:27,200 --> 01:45:29,160
Speaker 2: so easy. The Bad Seeds The.

1876
01:45:29,200 --> 01:45:34,080
Speaker 1: Bad Seed from nineteen fifty six, truly an incredible double

1877
01:45:34,120 --> 01:45:38,519
Speaker 1: feature for my money. But yeah, so that's the next

1878
01:45:38,600 --> 01:45:39,720
Speaker 1: episode after next week.

1879
01:45:39,840 --> 01:45:40,640
Speaker 2: So all right.

1880
01:45:40,720 --> 01:45:42,960
Speaker 1: If you want to email us, please do so. And

1881
01:45:43,040 --> 01:45:44,519
Speaker 1: I saw what you did. Pot at gmail dot com

1882
01:45:45,920 --> 01:45:47,720
Speaker 1: and we do have a po box.

1883
01:45:47,760 --> 01:45:51,559
Speaker 3: You can find it on our instagram uh link tree.

1884
01:45:52,120 --> 01:45:54,679
Speaker 3: If you want to send us real mail that Millie

1885
01:45:54,720 --> 01:45:56,919
Speaker 3: will open. I will not get real mail from strangers.

1886
01:45:56,960 --> 01:45:59,000
Speaker 3: I'm sorry, I.

1887
01:45:59,040 --> 01:45:59,560
Speaker 1: Will open it.

1888
01:46:00,320 --> 01:46:01,280
Speaker 2: I lived through the.

1889
01:46:03,560 --> 01:46:07,160
Speaker 3: Fall of the World Trade Center and the panic about

1890
01:46:07,240 --> 01:46:10,200
Speaker 3: anthrax envelopes, and I will never be the same.

1891
01:46:10,479 --> 01:46:12,160
Speaker 2: But you can send it to Millie and.

1892
01:46:13,880 --> 01:46:17,559
Speaker 1: You can send me your thracks sure, and you can

1893
01:46:17,640 --> 01:46:18,160
Speaker 1: find us on.

1894
01:46:18,200 --> 01:46:21,559
Speaker 2: Our socials at I Saw Pod on Instagram and Twitter.

1895
01:46:22,320 --> 01:46:24,479
Speaker 1: That's right, we also have merged. Please go to the

1896
01:46:24,560 --> 01:46:26,320
Speaker 1: I Saw What You Did section of the Exactly Right

1897
01:46:26,360 --> 01:46:28,080
Speaker 1: shop to find it.

1898
01:46:29,160 --> 01:46:31,760
Speaker 3: And you know our bonus episodes, The new ones are

1899
01:46:31,800 --> 01:46:35,080
Speaker 3: dropping every third Thursday now every third Thursday of the month,

1900
01:46:35,560 --> 01:46:38,160
Speaker 3: and our old bonus episodes are trickling out, and it's

1901
01:46:38,240 --> 01:46:40,720
Speaker 3: kind of funny to see people listening to the old

1902
01:46:40,720 --> 01:46:43,760
Speaker 3: bonus episodes for the first time and commenting on things

1903
01:46:43,800 --> 01:46:47,320
Speaker 3: that I have long forgotten that we even said me too,

1904
01:46:47,800 --> 01:46:48,519
Speaker 3: Oh my gosh.

1905
01:46:48,640 --> 01:46:52,240
Speaker 1: Well, as always, Daniell, a fucking pleasure join this podcast

1906
01:46:52,320 --> 01:46:54,840
Speaker 1: with you. I love it, See you next time.

1907
01:47:01,640 --> 01:47:04,679
Speaker 3: This has been an Exactly Right production produced by Ksey O'Brien,

1908
01:47:04,920 --> 01:47:07,439
Speaker 3: mixed by Edson Choi. Our theme song is by Tom

1909
01:47:07,520 --> 01:47:11,280
Speaker 3: bry Fogel, artwork by Garrett Ross. Our executive producers are

1910
01:47:11,320 --> 01:47:14,320
Speaker 3: Georgia Hartstart, Karen kile Gareff and Daniel Kramer. You can

1911
01:47:14,400 --> 01:47:17,080
Speaker 3: follow us on Instagram and Twitter at I Saw Pod,

1912
01:47:17,520 --> 01:47:19,479
Speaker 3: and you can email us at I Saw What You

1913
01:47:19,560 --> 01:47:20,719
Speaker 3: Did Pod at Gmail