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Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Molly John Fast and this is Fast Politics,

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Speaker 1: where we discussed the top political headlines with some of

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Speaker 1: today's best minds. And Donald Trump has had two routine

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Speaker 1: yearly checkups now the second one which has determined he

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Speaker 1: is in exceptional health. We have such a great show

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Speaker 1: for you today. The Lincoln Project's own Rick Wilson joins

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Speaker 1: us to discuss Trump's increasing hints that he will enact

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Speaker 1: the Insurrection Act. Then we'll talk to CNBC's Andrew Ross

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Speaker 1: Sorkin about his new book nineteen twenty nine, Inside the

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Speaker 1: greatest Crash in Wall Street History and how it shattered

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Speaker 1: a nation. But first the news Sabali.

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Speaker 2: On our last episode, we talked about lay offs at

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Speaker 2: the CDC over one thousand Quisberg notified layoffs, including people

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Speaker 2: on the Ebola and Meaesels task forces. And guess what

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Speaker 2: they're reversing them because this government is not careful at all.

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Speaker 1: A guy called Russ Vaught, one of the authors of

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Speaker 1: Project twenty twenty five, you may remember him. He had

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Speaker 1: got very excited about the shutdown. He had made a

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Speaker 1: lot of threats and he saw this as an opening

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Speaker 1: to fire more people. The problem is they've already fired

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Speaker 1: so many people. And it's funny because when you would

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Speaker 1: talk to Democrats and leadership about this, I would always

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Speaker 1: be like, aren't you worried they're going to fire more people?

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Speaker 1: And they'd be like, they've fired so many people. And

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Speaker 1: so here it is. On Friday, russ Vot very excited.

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Speaker 1: He lays off four one hundred employees from the CDC.

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Speaker 1: I mean, by the way, if you're an administration that

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Speaker 1: has already been foiled by one pandemic, perhaps just laying

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Speaker 1: off all these people who deal with health might not

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Speaker 1: be the smartest move. But again, russ Vot's got to

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Speaker 1: do it for the tweets, right, And in fact, he

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Speaker 1: tweeted on Friday, the RIfS reduced in force have begun

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Speaker 1: da da da da. So they laid off the people

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Speaker 1: who deal with the book a bola, a blood borne

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Speaker 1: virus that makes it so you bleed out. That sounds

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Speaker 1: like something we should roll the dice with.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it just doesn't feel like they're careful. And jd

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Speaker 2: Vance was on Kristen Welker's show this morning and when

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Speaker 2: she asked him about it, let's just say he just

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Speaker 2: danced around the issue. The entire time and would not

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Speaker 2: confront it at all because he knows that this is

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Speaker 2: total incompetence.

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Speaker 1: Also, it's expensive to have to hire these people back.

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Speaker 1: They will now have to hire these people back, they

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Speaker 1: will have to pay severance and then to rehire, and

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Speaker 1: then some of these people will not come back, and

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Speaker 1: they'll have to retrain more people. All of this ultimately

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Speaker 1: ends up being more expensive. I love that they're firing

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Speaker 1: one hundred and eighty seven people in energy, four hundred

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Speaker 1: and forty two and high one hundred and seventy six

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Speaker 1: in Homeland Security, ten to thirty in the EPA because

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Speaker 1: they've fired all those people already. I'm reminded of what

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Speaker 1: Russ Vot said between Trump one point zero and Trump

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Speaker 1: two point zero. He said he wanted to put federal

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Speaker 1: workers in trauma, and that's exactly what he's doing.

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Speaker 2: That was cute. Speaking of other ridiculous things, are Defense

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Speaker 2: Secretary Pete Hegseith has announced that they have finalized an

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Speaker 2: agreement though allowed the Katari Emery Air Force to build

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Speaker 2: a facility in Mountain Home, Idaho.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, the kataris basically just own our government now, and

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Speaker 1: they probably do a better job than who we have

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Speaker 1: in their believe it or not. It's so funny because

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Speaker 1: it's like the Qataris really learned that we can be

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Speaker 1: their useful idiot. I feel like in Bush too.

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Speaker 2: Right, I like that turn of phrase for this. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And by the way, like good for them. I mean,

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Speaker 1: there are so many stupid people who are doing Wow.

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Speaker 1: Good for the Qataris for being in that group of

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Speaker 1: people taking advantage of our country. I for one, salute

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Speaker 1: their ingenuity.

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Speaker 2: Their chess skills on the world stage are really killing it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, good for them.

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Speaker 2: So I think one of the interesting things about this

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Speaker 2: government shutdown is everybody's focused on the Democrats defense of

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Speaker 2: Obamacare premiums rising, but one of the other things that's

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Speaker 2: being negotiated is that sickly is actually a big thing

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Speaker 2: that Republicans have gutted in this budget as well.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it take no pleasure in the fact that we

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Speaker 1: were all right about all of this. And it's funny

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Speaker 1: because they're not winning on this healthcare fight. And today

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Speaker 1: we saw Mike Johnson on the Sunday Show saying the

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Speaker 1: reason that they made healthcare better in the BBB, did

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Speaker 1: you know that you'll know it's better when your premiums

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Speaker 1: go way up. That's a real good sign that things

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Speaker 1: have gone a lot better.

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Speaker 2: I take Mike Johnson's word at all times, honest, straight shooter.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, me too, He's an honest broker. He still won't

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Speaker 1: swear in Atlita Grahava. You know why he won't swear

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Speaker 1: in because of the discharged peedition, this mosque.

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Speaker 2: On an island in the Caribbean.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. I don't understand, Like I feel like they should

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Speaker 1: throw in something popular. Why does every idea they have

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Speaker 1: it has to be so unpopular, Like I feel like,

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Speaker 1: let's add one or two popular ideas just to spice

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Speaker 1: it up. But no, all of these ideas are wildly unpopular. Takeaway,

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Speaker 1: sick leave, takeaway, healthcare, take away, all of it. That's

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Speaker 1: where we are, so you know, there we go. Rick

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Speaker 1: Wilson is the founder of the Lincoln Project and the

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Speaker 1: host of The Enemies List. Rick Wilson, Oh, Molly John

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Speaker 1: Fast Trump is looking at all his options as he

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Speaker 1: always does, that threatens to invoke the Insurrection Act. Jd Vance.

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Speaker 1: You may remember him from being anti Trump like a

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Speaker 1: week ago and saying Trump was like Hitler. He no

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Speaker 1: longer thinks Trump is like Hitler, or maybe it was

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Speaker 1: always just to compliment discuss.

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Speaker 3: Well, look, he's keeping his options open on the Insurrection Act.

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Speaker 3: This is the joy of Donald Trump's declining mental state.

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Speaker 3: Everything feels new all the time, so there's always new options.

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Speaker 3: But yeah, Vance came out and said the quiet part

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Speaker 3: out loud. He's keeping his options open, which means they've

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Speaker 3: already made a decision to do it. And if you

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Speaker 3: look at President Stephen Miller for the last several weeks,

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Speaker 3: he's increasingly like anything that's critical of Donald Trump is insurrection.

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Speaker 3: Is Orientifa?

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Speaker 1: Right?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, Miss NBC has host Son the Delight Trump Antifa Antifa,

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Speaker 3: you know, run it out ed the term doesn't like insurrection.

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Speaker 3: A court comes down with a decision that doesn't go

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Speaker 3: the way they want it. Insurrection.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Antifa judges, Antique judges, some of them. Trump is appointed.

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Speaker 3: It is fascinating how deeply Antifa has managed to reach

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Speaker 3: into our society. Molly. I mean, I look at this

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Speaker 3: and I wonder sometimes where is Antifa headquarters. It's got

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Speaker 3: to be about the same size as the Pentagon. It's

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Speaker 3: got to have millions of people working for it. It's

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Speaker 3: the greatest conspiracy that no one ever really was able

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Speaker 3: to point to. And I wait, by the way, since

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Speaker 3: they did arrest their girlfriend of the head of Antifa.

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Speaker 1: Yes, yes, so let's let's just from Canada.

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Speaker 3: You don't know where she's not on social media.

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Speaker 1: Let's talk about what we're watching here right now. So

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Speaker 1: we have vans and Trump Trump went for I think

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Speaker 1: we can can we have two seconds on Trump going

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Speaker 1: for a physical. I know he's not Joe Biden, so

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Speaker 1: we're not allowed to talk about his health, right And I'm.

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Speaker 3: Waiting for somebody to write the book about this one?

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Speaker 1: Is someone talk to Jake Tapper?

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Speaker 3: I was told that that is the biggest possible issue

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Speaker 3: with the president, as if their mental facilities are declining,

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Speaker 3: that we have to obsessively cover just that subject so

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Speaker 3: for all future things.

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Speaker 1: So I wait, Trump goes back for his yearly physical

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Speaker 1: in less than a year, in like five months, right, what.

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Speaker 3: We should really be saying Trump went back for his

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Speaker 3: post stroke physical.

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Speaker 1: Well, we don't know what is happening, but we do

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Speaker 1: know that his yearly physical is now happening twice a year.

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Speaker 3: You know, we also know that Donald Trump is once

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Speaker 3: again has the cardiac fitness of a twenty four year

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Speaker 3: old super athlete that he is six feet seven inches tall,

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Speaker 3: weighs one hundred and seventy five pounds, and his body

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Speaker 3: is comprised of pure muscle, and in.

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Speaker 1: That pure muscle is a COVID shot.

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Speaker 3: And I want all of our MAGA friends to just

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Speaker 3: follow the President's example and get the COVID shot.

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Speaker 1: So I haven't gotten a COVID vaccine in a while.

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Speaker 1: I probably will, but I've just been lazy and involved.

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Speaker 1: I had the shingricks shot this year.

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Speaker 3: Oh, I have that too, and I am grateful I

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Speaker 3: did because everybody I've ever known who's gotten shingles is like,

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Speaker 3: it's like you will want to die.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and also it's linked with dementia. So I got

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Speaker 1: the shingles vax, and I will get the flu and

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Speaker 1: I'll get the COVID. But I am not a person

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Speaker 1: who has run against those vaccines. So I think it's

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Speaker 1: pretty incredible. You have RFK Junior who is gone wild

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Speaker 1: on health's going well.

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Speaker 3: On health related conspiracies. Let's be let's let's make sure

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Speaker 3: we clarify that well.

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Speaker 1: I think going wild on anything is pejorative.

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Speaker 3: Perhaps Girl's Gone Wild the Great documentary.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a documentary. That's right. Yeah, that's how I

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Speaker 1: think of girls gone wild. So, but he's gone wild

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Speaker 1: on house, Donald Trump. But there's something in that Donald

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Speaker 1: Trump's yearly weekly physical that I want you that you

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Speaker 1: actually drew my attention to. What was the phrase stroke

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Speaker 1: follow up? No, it was not stop trying to get

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Speaker 1: me sued? What was the phrase?

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Speaker 3: Well, now I can't remember what phrase.

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Speaker 1: I I think it was enhanced imaging.

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Speaker 3: Oh, yes, it is enhanced imaging, which they can't do

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Speaker 3: with the White House. That in medical parlance means that

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Speaker 3: it was an MRI or a full CT.

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Speaker 1: Right, So you do that?

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Speaker 3: Why you do that as a part of the stroke

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Speaker 3: follow up?

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Speaker 1: Or something needs.

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Speaker 3: To be some other or some other magnificant medical consequence. Right,

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Speaker 3: it is entailed in Trump's declining physical health. Right, So

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Speaker 3: listen to official I can sound, but I want.

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Speaker 1: To someone tell Jake Tapper is the net neet of

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Speaker 1: this story? Jake, Well, it may not be.

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Speaker 3: If you wanted to look at publicly facing examples of

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Speaker 3: Donald Trump's declining mental state. You've had the weekend middle

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Speaker 3: of the night tweets.

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Speaker 1: You've had that's my man at his best, though not

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Speaker 1: sleeping and tweeting crazy shit koffefe. Yeah, from season one, remember.

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Speaker 3: Kaffee, kaffee, kaffee, whatever the fuck it was from season

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Speaker 3: one was a It was a classic. But look, I

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Speaker 3: think I think everyone is watching right now a white

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Speaker 3: House week he disappeared. There is that weekly disappear. This

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Speaker 3: is a White House under tremendous pressure a lot of different.

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Speaker 1: Angles to destroy democracy. Can they there is that?

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Hey, look they're trying to get this Middle East thing

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Speaker 3: as a as a win because they need a win

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Speaker 3: of some kind. The country hates the ice deployments in

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Speaker 3: the street of America. They hate it. About twenty percent

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Speaker 3: of the voters overall like it. Those are the same

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Speaker 3: people who have the truck nuts and the and the

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Speaker 3: boat parades. The economy is on a brink of absolute

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Speaker 3: economic terror. The Chinese have called Trump's boff. We're back

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Speaker 3: to full trade war with a billion percent tiers on China.

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Speaker 3: One billion. He's gone, He's gone. That's on that. So

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Speaker 3: we're in a moment where the unpopularity of the immigration rates,

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Speaker 3: the unpopularity of ice on the streets of America, the

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Speaker 3: unpopularity of the trade agenda, the unpopularity of the economic agenda,

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Speaker 3: the unpopularity of the shutdown. It's all accrued to Trump.

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Speaker 3: And by the way, folks do not fall for the

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Speaker 3: bullshit from the Trump world or from the media that

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Speaker 3: this is hurting the Democrats. The voters don't understand that

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Speaker 3: Donald Trump controls the White House, the Congress, the Senate,

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Speaker 3: and the Supreme Court.

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Speaker 1: Do you think they do, Yeah, I know they're seeing.

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Speaker 3: We're sitting We're seeing in our polling and everybody else

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Speaker 3: is pulling is showing this is accruing to Trump. They

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Speaker 3: are blaming Trump for this, and he understands it at

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Speaker 3: a lizard brain level that this is not working out

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Speaker 3: the way he thought it would work out. And it's

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Speaker 3: going to continue, I think, to escalate because the economic

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Speaker 3: I mean, look, the markets are now getting very yippy,

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Speaker 3: ma jittery. We had a bitcoin crash over the weekend.

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Speaker 3: People are buying fucking.

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Speaker 1: Gold, Yeah, they are.

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Speaker 3: My portfolio is gold, canned goods, and ammunition. Is a

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Speaker 3: max now becoming a rational statement.

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Speaker 1: My long suffering Spasse I was like asking him about

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Speaker 1: gold and he was like, you know, at some point

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Speaker 1: you have problems because you don't have the gold to

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Speaker 1: back up the gold.

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Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, you don't have the gold for the gold

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Speaker 3: that the backup.

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Speaker 1: Right, So that seems like a problem. But I mean

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Speaker 1: it definitely seems like things are not good.

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Speaker 3: No, we're in a moment I think of pretty maximalized chaos.

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Speaker 3: It is not great right now. And again you're seeing

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Speaker 3: this entire Middle East thing because the Katar bribe Trump

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Speaker 3: with a five billion dollar resort that they'll pay for

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Speaker 3: that he'll own another bribe on top of the airplane.

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Speaker 1: I actually think the best thing we have going for

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Speaker 1: us right now and the best like I think the

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Speaker 1: Middle East thing honestly good. The Guitaris, you know, like

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Speaker 1: they may not be the best actors, but if they

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Speaker 1: get this thing to stop that Danu right right, people

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Speaker 1: say exactly good, good for them. My question for you,

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Speaker 1: the reason why I think the thing I think is

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Speaker 1: going to happen with the Middle East, of which I'm

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Speaker 1: not sure they understand, is that most of the elites

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Speaker 1: care about the Middle East. But I think most of

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Speaker 1: the Americans don't give a fuck.

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Speaker 3: Americans, they literally are more worried about like changing the

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Speaker 3: tires on their car, than they are worried about the

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Speaker 3: Middle East. Right, I will say this is another unanticipated consequence.

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Speaker 3: People have not figured this out yet. Beating at in

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Speaker 3: Yahoo has survived being put He's not in prison because

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Speaker 3: he keeps going to war. He's been doing this for

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Speaker 3: almost fifteen years now, and he does not profit politically

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Speaker 3: by peace. So there will be a moment very soon

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Speaker 3: where he will have a new crisis and it will

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Speaker 3: be a new thing, and it will set the Middle

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Speaker 3: East sunfire again. And that is not, by the way,

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Speaker 3: for my listeners and your listeners. That is not saying,

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Speaker 3: oh Hamas is a harmless just a they're terrible fucking monsters.

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Speaker 3: But net and Yahoo over has faced more and more

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Speaker 3: internal pressure because he doesn't want peace. He needs a

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Speaker 3: constant state of battle and war and fear and terror.

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Speaker 3: Because there's one thing that Israeli citizens, as much as

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Speaker 3: they don't like the guy, in a lot of ways,

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Speaker 3: they're like, Okay, if shit's going really, really bad, we

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Speaker 3: gotta have bb in there because he's crazy. Yeah, And

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Speaker 3: that is going to be sooner than later. The internal

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Speaker 3: political pressure in Israel is going to be like, Okay,

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Speaker 3: now that we're at peace, bbe, well, you gotta go.

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Speaker 1: Get again, yeah. Will that will not be pretty and

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Speaker 1: I'm sure that will be crazy, and I'm sure that

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Speaker 1: will get Trump crazy. One of the reasons why I

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Speaker 1: think Trump's health is not good is because of the

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Speaker 1: people who are fighting to run Trump's government right now,

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Speaker 1: and you feel it bubbling under the surface. We have

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Speaker 1: jd Vance announcing things, and even jd Vance announcing that

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Speaker 1: Trump might go insurrection on all of our asses. That

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Speaker 1: strikes me as a sign that jadi Vance is making moves.

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Speaker 3: Jd Vance wants to be president and he believes that

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Speaker 3: right now. He's got an alliance with Stephen Miller at

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Speaker 3: the moment, so he's been out there very front and

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Speaker 3: center on a lot of the insurrection, immigration ice stuff.

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Speaker 3: If you watch him online, he's adopted very much the

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Speaker 3: edge lord ship posting style of the Jack Pisobiac wing

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Speaker 3: of the party. Yes, of the loudmouth wing of the party.

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Speaker 3: He's inserting himself a lot into that world because he

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Speaker 3: thinks that world, and I he's not.

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Speaker 1: Wrong, that world helps you.

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Speaker 3: That world is a real unlock for ye twenty eight.

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Speaker 3: The other wing of the party internally, Trump himself is

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Speaker 3: a separate camp inside the White House. Now you've got

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Speaker 3: the heg Seth block you've got the Rubio wing. You

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Speaker 3: know you've got You've got a lot of these other.

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Speaker 1: Has brought everyone home, brought all the military home.

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Speaker 3: No, the famous thing last week that I thought was

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Speaker 3: just great was Peterex is such a whiny, thirsty pitch.

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Speaker 3: He sends out a memo, d O D White, like

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Speaker 3: you must certify in writing that you have seen my video.

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Speaker 1: I love that everybody leaks. The one good thing is

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Speaker 1: that everybody you know like it's just it. And CBS

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Speaker 1: is another great example of like, if you don't like

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Speaker 1: your boss, you're gonna spend all your time just trying

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Speaker 1: to tarnish that person. Like every time Barry White does anything,

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Speaker 1: it's reported on more than anything, It gets more ratings

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Speaker 1: than CNA.

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Speaker 3: As I like to think of Puck these days, it's

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Speaker 3: like the Barry Weiss Channel. Yes, every story is about

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Speaker 3: Barry Weiss or Disney, but yeah, the focus on internal

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Speaker 3: schisms in the White House is really important to understand.

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Speaker 3: You've now got Dan Scavino going over to take over

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Speaker 3: personnel from Sergio Gore. What happened to Joe is going

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Speaker 3: to India to be the ambassador.

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Speaker 1: So that is usually you go, you get sent far

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Speaker 1: away when the when the White House is nervous about.

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Speaker 3: Diplomatically, India is not an A posting, as they say, right,

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Speaker 3: you know, but you want your A postings. It's Court

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Speaker 3: to Saint James.

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Speaker 1: Right, it's Paris, but it's Rome. It's but those are expensive.

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Speaker 3: They're they're expensive. Now I think has some money. I'm

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Speaker 3: not sure. I think he has some money, but I

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Speaker 3: don't know that he has. Nobody has Court to Saint

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Speaker 3: James money unless you're there.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's like you have to.

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Speaker 3: You're gonna spend twenty thirty million dollars of your own

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Speaker 3: money every year entertaining people ambassador. Yeah, not cheap, but yeah,

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Speaker 3: I don't know what the internal story on that is.

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Speaker 3: But Sergio Gore had some stuff about his background, you know,

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Speaker 3: was he really born in Russia? Did he lie on

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Speaker 3: his s F eighty six's So I think they're shuffling

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Speaker 3: him off the stage.

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Speaker 1: Well, because you know, Don Junior's ex girlfriend, like it

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Speaker 1: tends to be, when the regime decides you're possibly problematic,

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Speaker 1: you get shipped off.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. But it's interesting because they're both these different groups

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Speaker 3: in the White House are both fighting and forming new

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Speaker 3: alliances and new permutations. It is about as incestuous as

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Speaker 3: a cousin fucking convention in bumfuck Alabama. Okay, it is

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Speaker 3: a smaller and smaller circle of people who actually talk

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Speaker 3: to Trump again, unless he's calling out, what do you

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Speaker 3: think about this? Jared's made his big comeback.

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Speaker 1: Every piece of reporting on the Middle East is like

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Speaker 1: and then Jared Kushner said, and I'm like, who are

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Speaker 1: your sources? I can't can't imagine.

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Speaker 3: Who could I can't imagine.

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Speaker 1: I was listening to the Playbook podcast and they were

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Speaker 1: talking us through how it happened and.

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Speaker 3: Piece of the world. I'm going to nominate you Kushner

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Speaker 3: for a Nobel Peace Prize, just for spite.

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Speaker 1: By the way, the fact that Donald Trump this week,

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Speaker 1: Donald Trump did not get a Nobel Peace Prize, in

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Speaker 1: spite of the fact that every country pretty much you

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Speaker 1: know what, seven countries nominated him.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, you put troops in your own streets, You're probably

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Speaker 3: not getting a Nobel Peace Price.

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Speaker 1: Just let you know.

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Speaker 3: This is a future standard for future authoritarians. Just let

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Speaker 3: you know, if you put troops in the streets, you

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Speaker 3: are probably not going to get the Nobel Peace Prize.

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Speaker 1: Incredible stuff all around, There were a couple of newspaper

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Speaker 1: articles this week. Newspapers, you'll remember those.

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Speaker 2: I do remember those.

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Speaker 1: Media articles about how Stephen Miller is actually running the

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Speaker 1: White House. It was one in CNN.

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Speaker 3: Oh yeah, yeah, Well listen, I call him the domestic

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Speaker 3: president because Marco has a little cluster of power and

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Speaker 3: foreign policy. Heg saidre's a little cluster of power in

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Speaker 3: defense policy. But Stephen Miller is running and the Miller

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Speaker 3: Fought alliance is like this. They are inseparable, and they

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Speaker 3: both believe that at maximalist application of presidential power will

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Speaker 3: be protected by the Supreme Court, and that the I word,

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Speaker 3: saying it over and over again will mainstream it enough

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Speaker 3: to where and now, by the way, you do see it.

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Speaker 3: You do see it out there in the country. People

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Speaker 3: like Antifa has got an insurrection. So right, so you

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Speaker 3: know what, Miller is the most powerful force in the

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Speaker 3: White House. I have been told by two separate people

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Speaker 3: that know Susie Wiles that she is beside herself. She

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Speaker 3: is now a secretary. She is not the powerful chief

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Speaker 3: of staff. She is a secretary. Steven Miller goes, we're

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Speaker 3: going to do X. And if he even tells her

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Speaker 3: about it, which he frequently apparently does not. She's the

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Speaker 3: person who does the administrative backup. Miller runs the DOJ

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Speaker 3: with an iron fist. He is personally running the Lindsay

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Speaker 3: Halligan operation. I'm told. So Miller has had a amazing

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Speaker 3: rise to power.

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Speaker 1: So is he the boss really of this administration right now?

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Speaker 3: Absolutely? For everything domestic. There's little fiefdoms in foreign policy,

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Speaker 3: and Bessett has a fiefdom in Treasury Secretary Treasury Trade.

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Speaker 1: Uh, that's going great. In case, that's going great. I mean, yeah,

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Speaker 1: good job, Scott, Thank you for being the norm By

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Speaker 1: the way, remember remember Norman.

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Speaker 3: Oh yeah, Scott Besson's a normany He's a regular person. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: so is Susie Wilds. She's gonna be fine.

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Speaker 1: Well she was fine, but she's out and he is

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Speaker 1: whatever he is. I mean, it's hard for me to

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Speaker 1: imagine this.

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Speaker 3: Luck holds look Miller's difficulty. And I've known this since

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Speaker 3: I I didn't we were never friends, but I knew

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Speaker 3: him when he was in the Senate as a staffer

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Speaker 3: for sessions, and knew Hi when he was in the

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Speaker 3: House and the staff for a little bit. Not not again,

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Speaker 3: we're never close. If I had ever heard anything about

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Speaker 3: Stephen Miller before the Trump earent people were like, he's

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Speaker 3: fucking nuts about immigration. He's so nuts about immigration that

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Speaker 3: if you go and say what should we get on

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Speaker 3: our pizza, He'll start talking about immigration. So he's really

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Speaker 3: had the moment of he got ice into our streets,

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Speaker 3: he got the troops into the streets. He's gotten most

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Speaker 3: of the law enforcement operations in the federal government now

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Speaker 3: switched over to being immigration police. I mean half the

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Speaker 3: FBI people in the field offices are now working immigration cases.

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Speaker 3: And so he's had great success with that. He's managed

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Speaker 3: to drive the national dialogue on that to a great degree.

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Speaker 3: But his difficulty is he's a terrible manager, he's terrible

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Speaker 3: to get along with, he's psychotic, and he has this

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Speaker 3: vision of America that is only appealing to a very,

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Speaker 3: very very small piece of the.

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Speaker 1: Government of the popastviel country. Yeah, and look, when.

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Speaker 3: You ask people, do you want to secure the border?

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Speaker 3: Eighty percent of Americans go, yeah, sure. Do you want

435
00:22:32,920 --> 00:22:36,520
Speaker 3: to throw immigrant children onto the ground in cold Chicago

436
00:22:36,600 --> 00:22:39,679
Speaker 3: winter nights when they're zip tide? No, that's what not

437
00:22:39,760 --> 00:22:42,440
Speaker 3: what they want, And that's what Miller wants. He wants

438
00:22:42,440 --> 00:22:46,240
Speaker 3: the theater of cruelty and spectacle of harming these people

439
00:22:46,280 --> 00:22:48,320
Speaker 3: who have come here to work. And you notice something.

440
00:22:48,440 --> 00:22:52,600
Speaker 3: They've had to sort of shift from Trendiagua.

441
00:22:52,000 --> 00:22:54,640
Speaker 1: To immigrants because there's no there's not.

442
00:22:54,720 --> 00:22:58,080
Speaker 3: Enough trendiagua out there. There's not enough MS thirteen out there.

443
00:22:58,600 --> 00:23:01,280
Speaker 3: So now they've chifted over to Antifa, which has the

444
00:23:01,359 --> 00:23:03,520
Speaker 3: benefit for them of not existing being.

445
00:23:03,440 --> 00:23:11,200
Speaker 1: Really Rick Wilson, well, can you come back absolutely. Andrew

446
00:23:11,280 --> 00:23:14,440
Speaker 1: Ross Sorkin is a financial columnist for The New York

447
00:23:14,440 --> 00:23:19,040
Speaker 1: Times and co anchor of CNBC squawk Box, and the

448
00:23:19,080 --> 00:23:22,000
Speaker 1: author of nineteen twenty nine Inside, the Greatest Crash in

449
00:23:22,000 --> 00:23:25,120
Speaker 1: Wall Street History and How It Shattered a nation. Welcome

450
00:23:25,240 --> 00:23:28,440
Speaker 1: Too Fast Politics, Andrew Ross Sorkin.

451
00:23:28,400 --> 00:23:30,360
Speaker 4: Thank you for having me. It's nice to see you

452
00:23:30,720 --> 00:23:31,120
Speaker 4: like this.

453
00:23:31,960 --> 00:23:35,400
Speaker 1: It's nice to see you too. I'm excited about this book.

454
00:23:35,600 --> 00:23:37,600
Speaker 4: I'm excited about being on your show. I want you

455
00:23:37,640 --> 00:23:39,520
Speaker 4: to know. I mean, we've known each other for quite

456
00:23:39,520 --> 00:23:40,560
Speaker 4: a bit and I get to sit next to you

457
00:23:40,640 --> 00:23:42,919
Speaker 4: on TV and all the things. Yes, but this is

458
00:23:42,960 --> 00:23:44,600
Speaker 4: like a whole other operation.

459
00:23:44,960 --> 00:23:48,480
Speaker 1: We have a lot of parallels in our lives, including

460
00:23:48,480 --> 00:23:52,080
Speaker 1: your wife, who is amazing and one of the great

461
00:23:52,119 --> 00:23:56,119
Speaker 1: people and very very smart, and also just was instrumental

462
00:23:56,200 --> 00:23:59,439
Speaker 1: in my writing of my book. So I feel like

463
00:23:59,480 --> 00:24:02,440
Speaker 1: it's very apropos that we're talking to you about your book,

464
00:24:02,520 --> 00:24:05,159
Speaker 1: because you know, you had a similar situation to me,

465
00:24:05,440 --> 00:24:07,679
Speaker 1: and the fact that you have something you do as

466
00:24:07,720 --> 00:24:09,919
Speaker 1: a day job. You wanted to write a book that

467
00:24:10,080 --> 00:24:13,760
Speaker 1: was a real book, that wasn't outtakes from your day job.

468
00:24:14,080 --> 00:24:16,720
Speaker 1: And that's how you got to this, right, That's.

469
00:24:16,560 --> 00:24:18,960
Speaker 4: How I got to this. But as a result, it

470
00:24:19,000 --> 00:24:24,520
Speaker 4: took forever. Yes, this took eight years. I went into

471
00:24:24,560 --> 00:24:26,879
Speaker 4: this project thinking, Okay, maybe I'll do it in a

472
00:24:26,960 --> 00:24:29,879
Speaker 4: year or two, maybe a little longer. But this just,

473
00:24:30,080 --> 00:24:32,440
Speaker 4: you know, it swallowed my life in a good way.

474
00:24:32,560 --> 00:24:34,959
Speaker 1: For the four people who listen to those podcasts who

475
00:24:35,000 --> 00:24:38,000
Speaker 1: don't know exactly who you are. You write about finance,

476
00:24:38,040 --> 00:24:40,560
Speaker 1: you write about markets, you write about the economy, you

477
00:24:40,600 --> 00:24:43,680
Speaker 1: write your book. I feel like you have many jobs

478
00:24:43,760 --> 00:24:46,240
Speaker 1: like I do. Right, you're part of the gig economy.

479
00:24:46,359 --> 00:24:51,320
Speaker 4: Gig economy. So New York Times CNTAC, I see you

480
00:24:51,400 --> 00:24:55,480
Speaker 4: on MSNBC. I wrote books and make movies and TV

481
00:24:55,520 --> 00:24:56,520
Speaker 4: shows and other things.

482
00:24:56,520 --> 00:25:00,000
Speaker 1: So yes, and this book is about a financial crisis,

483
00:25:00,080 --> 00:25:01,600
Speaker 1: but not the most recent one.

484
00:25:01,760 --> 00:25:04,480
Speaker 4: So I wrote about that crisis too in two thousand

485
00:25:04,480 --> 00:25:06,240
Speaker 4: and eight, a book called Too Big to Fail, And

486
00:25:06,280 --> 00:25:08,199
Speaker 4: I actually, in may think that this is like the

487
00:25:08,240 --> 00:25:10,920
Speaker 4: prequel to that. So this is about the most infamous

488
00:25:10,960 --> 00:25:13,399
Speaker 4: financial crisis in history in nineteen twenty nine. And the

489
00:25:13,440 --> 00:25:15,959
Speaker 4: truth is I almost did it because I didn't know

490
00:25:16,080 --> 00:25:18,320
Speaker 4: too much about it. That's what sort of led me

491
00:25:18,359 --> 00:25:19,880
Speaker 4: to want to even try to figure it out.

492
00:25:19,960 --> 00:25:22,159
Speaker 1: Give us, like the top lines about what you learned.

493
00:25:22,320 --> 00:25:25,160
Speaker 4: The biggest top line, more than anything else, is that

494
00:25:25,200 --> 00:25:28,400
Speaker 4: this was a human drama. It was like a It

495
00:25:28,440 --> 00:25:31,120
Speaker 4: was a story about people. We oftentimes, I think, think

496
00:25:31,160 --> 00:25:34,800
Speaker 4: about the world of finance as you know, about systems

497
00:25:34,840 --> 00:25:38,399
Speaker 4: and economics and structures. But I think one of the

498
00:25:38,480 --> 00:25:40,840
Speaker 4: lessons that I've found just over my whole career is

499
00:25:40,880 --> 00:25:43,159
Speaker 4: it's never really about all those things. I mean, those

500
00:25:43,200 --> 00:25:46,880
Speaker 4: things come into play, but it's about human beings who

501
00:25:46,920 --> 00:25:51,879
Speaker 4: are all just like us, make good decisions and oftentimes

502
00:25:51,920 --> 00:25:54,199
Speaker 4: make bad decisions, and make decisions for all sorts of

503
00:25:54,200 --> 00:25:58,879
Speaker 4: strangeries and sometimes their petty decisions, sometimes their ego decisions,

504
00:25:58,960 --> 00:26:01,760
Speaker 4: and all sorts of things and so I was basically

505
00:26:01,800 --> 00:26:07,320
Speaker 4: trying to unearth in the archives who these people really were.

506
00:26:07,359 --> 00:26:09,040
Speaker 4: I'd never you know, you read a lot of things

507
00:26:09,040 --> 00:26:11,040
Speaker 4: about ninet twenty ninety, you don't really know who the

508
00:26:11,080 --> 00:26:13,280
Speaker 4: people are. What are they saying to each other, who's

509
00:26:13,320 --> 00:26:16,440
Speaker 4: sleeping with who, who's trying to screw over who? What's

510
00:26:16,480 --> 00:26:19,880
Speaker 4: going on? And that's what I really want to understand.

511
00:26:19,880 --> 00:26:22,280
Speaker 4: And once I think you could figure that out, it

512
00:26:22,400 --> 00:26:25,399
Speaker 4: really almost opens up the whole story into something that

513
00:26:25,920 --> 00:26:28,440
Speaker 4: just it feels like a drama, but also I think

514
00:26:28,520 --> 00:26:30,639
Speaker 4: makes it a lot more understandable.

515
00:26:30,880 --> 00:26:33,760
Speaker 1: I mean, I personally believe that every bad thing is

516
00:26:33,800 --> 00:26:37,399
Speaker 1: a failure of regulation, but that's my own peccadillos. Is

517
00:26:37,400 --> 00:26:39,520
Speaker 1: that what it is? I mean, how do you get

518
00:26:39,560 --> 00:26:40,720
Speaker 1: to nineteen twenty nine?

519
00:26:40,960 --> 00:26:43,040
Speaker 4: Okay? So I think it starts with the human condition,

520
00:26:43,240 --> 00:26:45,919
Speaker 4: which is the human condition. I hate to say it

521
00:26:46,080 --> 00:26:48,040
Speaker 4: is a little bit greedy, that's what it is.

522
00:26:49,000 --> 00:26:51,639
Speaker 1: I'm shocked. How is that possible?

523
00:26:52,040 --> 00:26:55,959
Speaker 4: I think that people want and they want more, and

524
00:26:56,040 --> 00:26:59,080
Speaker 4: so when you talk about regulation, yes, if the human

525
00:26:59,119 --> 00:27:02,520
Speaker 4: condition is is to want to want more, the question

526
00:27:02,840 --> 00:27:06,080
Speaker 4: is where do you put the guardrails? And the truth is,

527
00:27:06,480 --> 00:27:11,000
Speaker 4: you do need a little bit of speculation to create innovation.

528
00:27:11,080 --> 00:27:13,560
Speaker 4: I mean, I think speculation and innovation are kind of

529
00:27:13,560 --> 00:27:17,280
Speaker 4: like twins, right, that's enough ways, And so you don't

530
00:27:17,280 --> 00:27:19,359
Speaker 4: want to have no speculation. I mean, even if you

531
00:27:19,359 --> 00:27:22,360
Speaker 4: think of whatever you think about Elon Musk, somebody had

532
00:27:22,400 --> 00:27:25,280
Speaker 4: to speculate early and believe that there was something that

533
00:27:25,359 --> 00:27:28,480
Speaker 4: seemed completely insane to believe that it was going to work.

534
00:27:28,520 --> 00:27:30,680
Speaker 4: So you do need some speculation, but you don't want

535
00:27:30,680 --> 00:27:32,240
Speaker 4: it to get out of control. And I think what

536
00:27:32,440 --> 00:27:35,359
Speaker 4: happened in the late twenties was one of the first

537
00:27:35,400 --> 00:27:40,120
Speaker 4: and biggest examples of things getting totally out of control.

538
00:27:40,240 --> 00:27:43,560
Speaker 4: And it was a story about an entire generation that

539
00:27:43,640 --> 00:27:46,240
Speaker 4: really had the It was their first opportunity in reality

540
00:27:46,320 --> 00:27:48,360
Speaker 4: to gamble like this. I mean people, by the way,

541
00:27:48,400 --> 00:27:51,439
Speaker 4: prior to nineteen nineteen, people didn't take on credit or

542
00:27:51,480 --> 00:27:53,960
Speaker 4: debt to do anything. It was a moral sin in

543
00:27:54,000 --> 00:27:56,640
Speaker 4: America if you had credit or took a loan out.

544
00:27:56,760 --> 00:27:58,919
Speaker 4: By the mid twenties, people were taking out loans to

545
00:27:58,960 --> 00:28:02,040
Speaker 4: buy stocks. You know. Brokerages were on the corners of the

546
00:28:02,080 --> 00:28:05,000
Speaker 4: streets like they're Starbucks. It would walk in and you

547
00:28:05,480 --> 00:28:07,560
Speaker 4: could give them a dollar. They would give you ten,

548
00:28:07,720 --> 00:28:10,800
Speaker 4: you could borrow ten dollars, and as long as the

549
00:28:10,840 --> 00:28:13,280
Speaker 4: market's going up, it's all free money to you.

550
00:28:13,640 --> 00:28:15,520
Speaker 1: So that's the same as two thousand and eight.

551
00:28:15,680 --> 00:28:17,280
Speaker 4: That's the same as two thousand and eight. I would

552
00:28:17,359 --> 00:28:19,280
Speaker 4: argue to some extent, that's the same.

553
00:28:19,080 --> 00:28:20,919
Speaker 1: A little bit as right now.

554
00:28:21,119 --> 00:28:24,080
Speaker 4: Well, what's going on with artificial intelligence right now? Just

555
00:28:24,160 --> 00:28:27,640
Speaker 4: this remarkable boom that's taking place, which also is being,

556
00:28:27,760 --> 00:28:30,000
Speaker 4: you know, backed by a lot of leverage. I don't

557
00:28:30,000 --> 00:28:31,600
Speaker 4: want to say we're there yet, but I think we're

558
00:28:31,600 --> 00:28:33,800
Speaker 4: in the early stages, and so I think we need

559
00:28:33,840 --> 00:28:36,639
Speaker 4: to be mindful of just, you know, how far this goes.

560
00:28:36,920 --> 00:28:39,080
Speaker 1: It seems like it's going to go far. I mean,

561
00:28:39,200 --> 00:28:42,120
Speaker 1: it's hard for me to imagine that there's not, from

562
00:28:42,160 --> 00:28:44,640
Speaker 1: what I understand, quite a lot of deregulation going on

563
00:28:44,800 --> 00:28:47,520
Speaker 1: right now in a lot of different sectors.

564
00:28:47,280 --> 00:28:49,360
Speaker 4: In a lot of different sectors, and specifically by the

565
00:28:49,360 --> 00:28:50,760
Speaker 4: way of the stock market. I mean, one of the

566
00:28:50,800 --> 00:28:53,800
Speaker 4: things that's happening literally right now is the Trump administration

567
00:28:54,200 --> 00:28:57,400
Speaker 4: is making things that were never available to the public available.

568
00:28:57,480 --> 00:29:00,800
Speaker 4: So you know, we never allowed people, the public, if

569
00:29:00,840 --> 00:29:03,640
Speaker 4: you will, to invest in private companies typically there was

570
00:29:03,680 --> 00:29:05,760
Speaker 4: something called an accredited investor rule. You had to have

571
00:29:05,800 --> 00:29:08,320
Speaker 4: a million dollars to invest in a startup company, because

572
00:29:08,360 --> 00:29:10,440
Speaker 4: the view is we didn't want people to use their

573
00:29:10,440 --> 00:29:12,600
Speaker 4: hard earned money and risk it and lose it and

574
00:29:12,640 --> 00:29:15,960
Speaker 4: their charlatans and fraud. In private companies, public companies have

575
00:29:15,960 --> 00:29:19,320
Speaker 4: to disclose information and do all sorts of regulatory audits.

576
00:29:19,520 --> 00:29:23,320
Speaker 4: We are now about to put private company investments, venture capital,

577
00:29:23,320 --> 00:29:26,959
Speaker 4: private equity, what's called private credit crypto inside of your

578
00:29:27,000 --> 00:29:29,200
Speaker 4: retirement fund, inside your four to one K. I mean,

579
00:29:29,200 --> 00:29:32,480
Speaker 4: this is a total revolution in finance, and it's happening

580
00:29:32,480 --> 00:29:34,560
Speaker 4: in front of us. But President just announced his plan

581
00:29:34,880 --> 00:29:38,840
Speaker 4: to reduce the number of times a year. Typically companies

582
00:29:39,000 --> 00:29:43,480
Speaker 4: have to declare their earnings four times a year and

583
00:29:43,720 --> 00:29:47,640
Speaker 4: provide audited financials, answer questions from investors, journalists and analysts

584
00:29:47,640 --> 00:29:49,320
Speaker 4: and the like, and he says, maybe we should do

585
00:29:49,360 --> 00:29:51,840
Speaker 4: that twice a year, so less transparency. So all of

586
00:29:51,880 --> 00:29:54,600
Speaker 4: that is happening against the backdrop of this other new

587
00:29:55,000 --> 00:29:57,080
Speaker 4: AI boom, and it's those kind of things that make

588
00:29:57,160 --> 00:29:57,960
Speaker 4: me anxious.

589
00:29:58,160 --> 00:30:01,640
Speaker 1: But the general feeling right now is that the market

590
00:30:01,760 --> 00:30:05,440
Speaker 1: feels that the rate cuts that are coming will be

591
00:30:05,640 --> 00:30:10,600
Speaker 1: enough to create a rally despite those, right, I mean

592
00:30:10,640 --> 00:30:11,800
Speaker 1: that's the general feeling.

593
00:30:12,000 --> 00:30:13,680
Speaker 4: I mean, I think part of it is this rate

594
00:30:13,760 --> 00:30:16,600
Speaker 4: cut piece, and part of it is, you know, a

595
00:30:16,680 --> 00:30:20,600
Speaker 4: generational investment piece of buying into the future. And this

596
00:30:20,760 --> 00:30:23,240
Speaker 4: is exactly what was happening, By the way, in nineteen

597
00:30:23,240 --> 00:30:25,800
Speaker 4: twenty nine, there was a huge debate going on in

598
00:30:25,880 --> 00:30:28,880
Speaker 4: nineteen twenty and literally about should they lower interest rates?

599
00:30:29,000 --> 00:30:31,360
Speaker 4: Should they raise interest rates? If they raise interest rates,

600
00:30:31,400 --> 00:30:33,280
Speaker 4: are they going to slow down the economy if they

601
00:30:33,280 --> 00:30:35,320
Speaker 4: lower interest rates? Is it just going to make it

602
00:30:35,400 --> 00:30:39,640
Speaker 4: more and more speculative? How independence the Fed? Actually, these

603
00:30:39,640 --> 00:30:42,280
Speaker 4: are questions that were happening then. And by the way,

604
00:30:42,440 --> 00:30:47,120
Speaker 4: if Nvidia is the meme stock of today, you know,

605
00:30:47,160 --> 00:30:51,200
Speaker 4: there was something called RCA which was radio in twenty nine,

606
00:30:51,400 --> 00:30:54,280
Speaker 4: and everybody was betting that that was the future. By

607
00:30:54,280 --> 00:30:56,160
Speaker 4: the way, they were right, it was the future, but

608
00:30:56,240 --> 00:30:59,160
Speaker 4: it didn't matter. Well, it didn't matter in that the

609
00:30:59,200 --> 00:31:01,320
Speaker 4: stock when it point if you were betting on this,

610
00:31:01,440 --> 00:31:02,960
Speaker 4: I think it was up at five hundred and thirty

611
00:31:03,000 --> 00:31:04,920
Speaker 4: six dollars a share, and by nineteen thirty two it

612
00:31:04,960 --> 00:31:08,920
Speaker 4: was three dollars a share. Now radio persisted, right, RCAA

613
00:31:08,960 --> 00:31:10,680
Speaker 4: actually still did exist, it's not that it went out

614
00:31:10,720 --> 00:31:13,160
Speaker 4: of business. And it's similar to the dot com bubble.

615
00:31:13,160 --> 00:31:15,200
Speaker 4: There were a lot of businesses that started in the

616
00:31:15,240 --> 00:31:18,040
Speaker 4: dot com bubble. The Internet is here, Amazon is still here,

617
00:31:18,080 --> 00:31:21,200
Speaker 4: but there's a lot of other companies that fell by

618
00:31:21,200 --> 00:31:22,480
Speaker 4: the wayside along the way.

619
00:31:22,600 --> 00:31:25,040
Speaker 1: And it's also all about timing right, Like you could

620
00:31:25,040 --> 00:31:28,400
Speaker 1: have bought a credit default swap for the two thousand

621
00:31:28,440 --> 00:31:31,280
Speaker 1: and eight crash, but if you bought it six months

622
00:31:31,320 --> 00:31:33,280
Speaker 1: too early, you wouldn't have been able to afford to

623
00:31:33,360 --> 00:31:34,160
Speaker 1: keep it right.

624
00:31:34,400 --> 00:31:36,400
Speaker 4: Well, that's the thing about every bubble. People always say,

625
00:31:36,400 --> 00:31:37,600
Speaker 4: are we in a bubble? And I say, of course,

626
00:31:37,600 --> 00:31:39,320
Speaker 4: we're in a bubble. What I just can't tell you

627
00:31:39,400 --> 00:31:41,000
Speaker 4: is is the bubble going to pop tomorrow? Is going

628
00:31:41,080 --> 00:31:43,400
Speaker 4: to pop in five or six years. And if you

629
00:31:43,440 --> 00:31:45,320
Speaker 4: bet that it's going to pop tomorrow when it doesn't

630
00:31:45,320 --> 00:31:48,080
Speaker 4: pop for five or six years, that's a bad bet.

631
00:31:48,560 --> 00:31:52,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, which is pretty insane. I want you to talk

632
00:31:52,360 --> 00:31:54,560
Speaker 1: about the dollar, because this here has actually been a

633
00:31:54,600 --> 00:31:56,000
Speaker 1: really bad year for the dollar.

634
00:31:56,280 --> 00:31:59,000
Speaker 4: Well, that's an interesting issue in the context of sort

635
00:31:59,000 --> 00:32:01,520
Speaker 4: of where you think the the US economy is, and

636
00:32:01,560 --> 00:32:03,200
Speaker 4: not just the economy, but the country. I mean, this

637
00:32:03,240 --> 00:32:05,479
Speaker 4: goes to the politics of what's happening in the country,

638
00:32:05,600 --> 00:32:09,440
Speaker 4: the belief in the dollar long term. Other way, this

639
00:32:09,560 --> 00:32:12,280
Speaker 4: is sort of gets that, you know why they're not

640
00:32:12,280 --> 00:32:15,200
Speaker 4: just crypto bros, but folks around the world now that

641
00:32:15,680 --> 00:32:19,160
Speaker 4: are interested in bitcoin and other things. Frankly has alternatives

642
00:32:19,160 --> 00:32:21,160
Speaker 4: to the dollar. We've always talked about, you know, will

643
00:32:21,160 --> 00:32:23,760
Speaker 4: there be an alternative to the dollar at some point?

644
00:32:23,920 --> 00:32:25,400
Speaker 4: Is enough for the rest of the world going and

645
00:32:25,480 --> 00:32:28,840
Speaker 4: not believe in the dollar the way they have, right,

646
00:32:29,160 --> 00:32:32,040
Speaker 4: And that's a real question. Now the world is also relative, right,

647
00:32:32,280 --> 00:32:34,920
Speaker 4: It's not exactly like everybody is going to you know,

648
00:32:35,880 --> 00:32:39,120
Speaker 4: be cashing in their dollars for euros or for r

649
00:32:39,200 --> 00:32:40,840
Speaker 4: and b's and China. I mean, like it's just.

650
00:32:40,760 --> 00:32:42,560
Speaker 1: Not know, a lot of people are going to gold.

651
00:32:42,800 --> 00:32:44,560
Speaker 4: I mean, there are people who are investing in gold,

652
00:32:44,640 --> 00:32:46,800
Speaker 4: and that's I think very similar to the sort of

653
00:32:46,840 --> 00:32:49,120
Speaker 4: bitcoin game, to the extent that people think that bitcoin

654
00:32:49,200 --> 00:32:50,480
Speaker 4: is some kind of digital goal.

655
00:32:50,800 --> 00:32:53,520
Speaker 1: Right though, wouldn't you be I mean just real talk,

656
00:32:53,600 --> 00:32:56,160
Speaker 1: wouldn't you feel much more comfortable with gold than bitcoin.

657
00:32:56,440 --> 00:33:00,400
Speaker 4: It's interesting because both of them are almost like religion.

658
00:33:00,560 --> 00:33:03,240
Speaker 1: Right, No, Well, that is for sure, no, but.

659
00:33:03,240 --> 00:33:05,960
Speaker 4: Both of them are sort of a belief system. The

660
00:33:06,000 --> 00:33:10,440
Speaker 4: older generation believes in physical gold, the younger generation believes

661
00:33:10,480 --> 00:33:13,120
Speaker 4: in what they think is digital gold. Is one better

662
00:33:13,160 --> 00:33:17,080
Speaker 4: than the other, I don't know, because neither produce anything.

663
00:33:17,080 --> 00:33:18,560
Speaker 1: Right, true, Laarren Buffett.

664
00:33:18,560 --> 00:33:20,600
Speaker 4: We always say I prefer to own a farm because

665
00:33:20,600 --> 00:33:24,000
Speaker 4: if I work my farm, it can actually produce eggs,

666
00:33:24,280 --> 00:33:27,120
Speaker 4: It could produce we could reduce stuff in the ground,

667
00:33:27,360 --> 00:33:29,760
Speaker 4: and I could get something for it. Bitcoin is not

668
00:33:29,880 --> 00:33:32,600
Speaker 4: that bitcoin. It's not a Ponzi scheme, but you have

669
00:33:32,680 --> 00:33:35,560
Speaker 4: to believe that's gonna be worth more tomorrow than it is.

670
00:33:35,520 --> 00:33:38,000
Speaker 1: Today, right And there are people who think it's a

671
00:33:38,040 --> 00:33:40,800
Speaker 1: Ponzi scheme, though I'm not one of them. One of

672
00:33:40,800 --> 00:33:43,680
Speaker 1: the many things that I like about you is that

673
00:33:44,000 --> 00:33:45,840
Speaker 1: you make me think I feel like you're like my

674
00:33:45,920 --> 00:33:48,480
Speaker 1: husband in this way. That there are good capitalists, that

675
00:33:48,560 --> 00:33:51,640
Speaker 1: there are people who both want to make money and

676
00:33:51,680 --> 00:33:54,880
Speaker 1: not be evil. Right now, we have not seen a

677
00:33:54,960 --> 00:33:57,960
Speaker 1: ton of that. We have seen the people who have

678
00:33:58,280 --> 00:34:02,120
Speaker 1: been loudest in this country right now tend to be

679
00:34:02,200 --> 00:34:06,400
Speaker 1: the ones who are going along to get along. Celebrating

680
00:34:06,440 --> 00:34:08,840
Speaker 1: Trump is a I haven't seen a ton of the

681
00:34:08,920 --> 00:34:09,879
Speaker 1: good guys out there.

682
00:34:10,440 --> 00:34:12,320
Speaker 4: So here's the thing. And I think about this, and

683
00:34:12,360 --> 00:34:15,960
Speaker 4: maybe you'll think I'm being too sympathetic or empathetic or something.

684
00:34:16,160 --> 00:34:19,520
Speaker 4: I think right now, no matter who you are, whether

685
00:34:19,680 --> 00:34:23,359
Speaker 4: you are the best guy in the world or best

686
00:34:23,360 --> 00:34:25,760
Speaker 4: woman in the world, or you think you're a complete

687
00:34:25,960 --> 00:34:29,920
Speaker 4: sickophant to whoever's in power, I think it's very hard

688
00:34:30,400 --> 00:34:34,360
Speaker 4: to stand up and raise your hand and say I

689
00:34:34,400 --> 00:34:37,160
Speaker 4: don't like what's happening here. This is crazy to truly

690
00:34:37,200 --> 00:34:39,919
Speaker 4: speak out. I wish people did, but I think, really,

691
00:34:40,040 --> 00:34:42,040
Speaker 4: you know, the prevailing view is you look at some

692
00:34:42,120 --> 00:34:44,880
Speaker 4: of the people running the companies in America today, the

693
00:34:44,920 --> 00:34:47,520
Speaker 4: billionaire class. You say, they're the ones if anybody can

694
00:34:47,560 --> 00:34:49,120
Speaker 4: stand up, they're the ones who should be able to

695
00:34:49,160 --> 00:34:52,520
Speaker 4: stand up. And the truth is that I'm not sure

696
00:34:52,560 --> 00:34:58,200
Speaker 4: that money is either emotional armor or frankly legal armor.

697
00:34:58,360 --> 00:35:01,399
Speaker 4: And I think a lot of people look take Bill Gates,

698
00:35:01,440 --> 00:35:04,240
Speaker 4: for example, I actually think that Bill Gates, who obviously

699
00:35:04,239 --> 00:35:07,400
Speaker 4: started Microsoft and is giving extraordinary amounts of money away,

700
00:35:07,719 --> 00:35:10,239
Speaker 4: has not been as vocal as you might want to

701
00:35:10,239 --> 00:35:13,240
Speaker 4: think he should be. Potentially, I don't know around these issues,

702
00:35:13,320 --> 00:35:15,200
Speaker 4: but the truth is, I think that he thinks he

703
00:35:15,200 --> 00:35:18,240
Speaker 4: could be a target, an actual target, a personal target,

704
00:35:18,280 --> 00:35:20,040
Speaker 4: and I think we're seeing it, you know, whether it's

705
00:35:20,080 --> 00:35:23,600
Speaker 4: George Soros or Reed Hoffman now potentially being targeted. Comy

706
00:35:23,719 --> 00:35:25,719
Speaker 4: is an example of it. Whether you put the colleges

707
00:35:25,800 --> 00:35:29,359
Speaker 4: or the law firms, or what happened with CBS in paramount,

708
00:35:29,719 --> 00:35:32,200
Speaker 4: or you know, go down the list. And so I

709
00:35:32,280 --> 00:35:34,080
Speaker 4: think that I don't want to say it's a lot

710
00:35:34,160 --> 00:35:36,880
Speaker 4: to ask these folks to raise their hand, but I

711
00:35:36,880 --> 00:35:38,839
Speaker 4: think there's a trade off. And the question is if

712
00:35:38,840 --> 00:35:41,600
Speaker 4: you raise your hand today, what happens to you and

713
00:35:41,680 --> 00:35:43,839
Speaker 4: what do you get for it? So, if you raise

714
00:35:43,840 --> 00:35:46,040
Speaker 4: your hand today's stee what's going on in Washington is

715
00:35:46,040 --> 00:35:48,800
Speaker 4: not shouldn't be happening, you clearly are going to get

716
00:35:48,840 --> 00:35:52,520
Speaker 4: the anger and a truth social post at minimum. At maximum,

717
00:35:52,560 --> 00:35:55,200
Speaker 4: you could have your taxes pulled and something bad happened

718
00:35:55,200 --> 00:35:57,719
Speaker 4: to your company, and all sorts of things happen. Now

719
00:35:57,760 --> 00:36:00,960
Speaker 4: on the upside, what would you actually in this moment,

720
00:36:01,120 --> 00:36:04,279
Speaker 4: given that Congress and Senate and the White House are

721
00:36:04,280 --> 00:36:07,000
Speaker 4: controlled by republic, what would you actually get for raising

722
00:36:07,000 --> 00:36:09,520
Speaker 4: your hand and doing it in this actual moment? And

723
00:36:09,600 --> 00:36:11,320
Speaker 4: so I think that that's a little bit of the

724
00:36:11,760 --> 00:36:14,160
Speaker 4: gamble here. It's like if I raise my hand, now,

725
00:36:14,600 --> 00:36:17,440
Speaker 4: what do I get for it? Maybe if the Dems

726
00:36:17,480 --> 00:36:20,360
Speaker 4: get the House in the midterms, does that change the dynamic.

727
00:36:20,760 --> 00:36:24,200
Speaker 4: Maybe if enough people, if enough crazy things happen and

728
00:36:24,239 --> 00:36:26,680
Speaker 4: then people band together and raise my hand, that that

729
00:36:26,880 --> 00:36:29,359
Speaker 4: is different. So I think that that's a little bit

730
00:36:29,400 --> 00:36:31,400
Speaker 4: of the calculus. I'm not saying it's the right calculus,

731
00:36:31,440 --> 00:36:32,719
Speaker 4: but I think that's the conversation.

732
00:36:33,000 --> 00:36:35,279
Speaker 1: So you think there are people on the sidelines who

733
00:36:35,320 --> 00:36:39,680
Speaker 1: are waiting for the moment when they can be like, look,

734
00:36:39,719 --> 00:36:40,759
Speaker 1: this is not who we are.

735
00:36:41,160 --> 00:36:43,399
Speaker 4: I think there's a lot of people who, deep down

736
00:36:43,440 --> 00:36:49,080
Speaker 4: in their heart know that there are problems and real threats.

737
00:36:49,520 --> 00:36:52,080
Speaker 1: I'm thinking about the pair of military staff.

738
00:36:52,440 --> 00:36:54,200
Speaker 4: Yeahh no, No, I think there are people who think

739
00:36:54,239 --> 00:36:56,600
Speaker 4: that some of this is crazy, No question. There are

740
00:36:56,600 --> 00:36:58,759
Speaker 4: people who think this is crazy, and I think they're

741
00:36:58,800 --> 00:37:01,760
Speaker 4: trying to figure out, how could I have an impact?

742
00:37:01,760 --> 00:37:03,120
Speaker 4: And if I could have an impact, if I could

743
00:37:03,120 --> 00:37:04,920
Speaker 4: have a good impact, I'd do it. But if I

744
00:37:05,120 --> 00:37:08,640
Speaker 4: have no impact and also have the chance of being slaughtered, right,

745
00:37:09,040 --> 00:37:11,200
Speaker 4: maybe I won't do it. The one thing that's scary

746
00:37:11,200 --> 00:37:13,279
Speaker 4: about all of this is I do think there are

747
00:37:13,320 --> 00:37:17,000
Speaker 4: some people sort of running America today that you've noticed,

748
00:37:17,120 --> 00:37:18,600
Speaker 4: are now sort of in the club.

749
00:37:18,760 --> 00:37:18,920
Speaker 2: Right.

750
00:37:18,960 --> 00:37:20,759
Speaker 4: You get close to the White House, you get close

751
00:37:20,800 --> 00:37:22,879
Speaker 4: to the present, you're in the system, and I think

752
00:37:22,960 --> 00:37:25,880
Speaker 4: even people who came in skeptically, they start to believe.

753
00:37:26,360 --> 00:37:28,640
Speaker 1: Right. Scott Beson is a good example.

754
00:37:29,280 --> 00:37:32,080
Speaker 4: You believe, you know, even if you come I wasn't

755
00:37:32,080 --> 00:37:34,040
Speaker 4: Eve talking about Scott Besson. I was saying, they're CEOs,

756
00:37:34,200 --> 00:37:37,440
Speaker 4: twoere Democrats who clearly appear like they have switched. And

757
00:37:37,480 --> 00:37:40,120
Speaker 4: I think some have switched for convenience. But I think

758
00:37:40,160 --> 00:37:43,200
Speaker 4: in the process of switching for convenience, if you will,

759
00:37:43,320 --> 00:37:46,080
Speaker 4: some start to believe it because you're around it all

760
00:37:46,120 --> 00:37:49,319
Speaker 4: the time. And that's an interesting dynamic as to what

761
00:37:49,440 --> 00:37:51,160
Speaker 4: happens later with those folks.

762
00:37:51,480 --> 00:37:54,440
Speaker 1: There's a lot of craziness. I do think it is

763
00:37:54,440 --> 00:37:58,120
Speaker 1: a little bit interesting. Like there's a specific hedge fund

764
00:37:58,160 --> 00:38:02,560
Speaker 1: manager who is a Republican owner who's been really vocally

765
00:38:03,080 --> 00:38:06,200
Speaker 1: calling out Trump about certain things. I've been very impressed

766
00:38:06,280 --> 00:38:06,440
Speaker 1: with that.

767
00:38:06,840 --> 00:38:08,520
Speaker 4: Are you referring to Ken Griffin?

768
00:38:08,840 --> 00:38:09,160
Speaker 1: Yeah?

769
00:38:09,239 --> 00:38:11,640
Speaker 4: Yeah, No, I think has actually been fascinating. He's the

770
00:38:11,680 --> 00:38:14,680
Speaker 4: only one forget of being a Republican. He's the only

771
00:38:14,719 --> 00:38:17,560
Speaker 4: person I can sort of single out and identify who's

772
00:38:17,600 --> 00:38:20,240
Speaker 4: been out there saying there are things that this president's

773
00:38:20,320 --> 00:38:21,600
Speaker 4: doing that he doesn't agree with.

774
00:38:21,640 --> 00:38:24,600
Speaker 1: And by the way, undermining the FED that is something

775
00:38:25,040 --> 00:38:28,080
Speaker 1: ninety nine point nine nine nine percent of people think

776
00:38:28,160 --> 00:38:30,840
Speaker 1: is bad. I mean, does anyone think that's going to

777
00:38:30,880 --> 00:38:31,880
Speaker 1: be good for the economy?

778
00:38:32,120 --> 00:38:33,560
Speaker 4: No, nobody, nobody.

779
00:38:33,719 --> 00:38:36,480
Speaker 1: It's not like a controversial issue he's calling him out on.

780
00:38:36,719 --> 00:38:39,040
Speaker 4: That should be an easy one. And maybe, by the way,

781
00:38:39,040 --> 00:38:41,520
Speaker 4: you could argue it's easier for Ken to say these

782
00:38:41,560 --> 00:38:43,759
Speaker 4: things because this is an easy one.

783
00:38:43,600 --> 00:38:46,319
Speaker 1: Right, But I also think part of it is that

784
00:38:46,560 --> 00:38:49,359
Speaker 1: is brave, Like I mean, it may not seem like

785
00:38:49,440 --> 00:38:53,120
Speaker 1: it because he's in that club, but it kind of is.

786
00:38:53,640 --> 00:38:56,040
Speaker 4: Yeah. No, I look, I give an enormous amount of

787
00:38:56,040 --> 00:38:58,480
Speaker 4: credit he's been out there on that. He's been out

788
00:38:58,520 --> 00:39:01,759
Speaker 4: there on this issue about the disclosures of information that

789
00:39:01,840 --> 00:39:04,160
Speaker 4: public companies should have. He's been one of the few

790
00:39:04,400 --> 00:39:07,200
Speaker 4: who hasn't you know, totally fallen in line.

791
00:39:07,280 --> 00:39:10,439
Speaker 1: The tariffs are going to the Supreme Court and they're

792
00:39:10,480 --> 00:39:14,680
Speaker 1: going to be a real I mean, we're basically having

793
00:39:14,719 --> 00:39:19,560
Speaker 1: a Koch brother and Leonard Leo versus the Trump administration,

794
00:39:19,760 --> 00:39:22,480
Speaker 1: and the Supreme Court is going to decide. I mean,

795
00:39:22,520 --> 00:39:24,800
Speaker 1: do you have any thoughts on this? Like it feels

796
00:39:24,800 --> 00:39:26,560
Speaker 1: like the showdown to end all showdowns.

797
00:39:26,840 --> 00:39:29,360
Speaker 4: So I think it's an important showdown, But I don't

798
00:39:29,400 --> 00:39:32,280
Speaker 4: know if it's the showdown to end all showdowns, because

799
00:39:32,640 --> 00:39:38,200
Speaker 4: even if the tariffs as currently constructed are slapped down

800
00:39:38,280 --> 00:39:41,680
Speaker 4: by this court, there are other mechanisms with which this

801
00:39:41,719 --> 00:39:47,080
Speaker 4: administration can use to effectively implement tariffs that look very similar,

802
00:39:47,160 --> 00:39:49,719
Speaker 4: maybe not exactly, And maybe he's going to have to

803
00:39:49,760 --> 00:39:52,320
Speaker 4: do it at fifteen month increments and have to keep

804
00:39:52,960 --> 00:39:55,759
Speaker 4: putting them in place, and maybe those will go to

805
00:39:55,800 --> 00:39:58,760
Speaker 4: have legal challenges as well. But it's not so clear

806
00:39:58,800 --> 00:40:02,120
Speaker 4: to me that because the Supreme Court says, if they

807
00:40:02,120 --> 00:40:04,800
Speaker 4: were to say these tariffs or illegal, that this is

808
00:40:04,840 --> 00:40:06,040
Speaker 4: the end of the tariff story.

809
00:40:06,320 --> 00:40:10,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, super interesting, very cool to get to talk to you.

810
00:40:10,600 --> 00:40:12,960
Speaker 1: Thank you, Andrew, Thank you for having me.

811
00:40:15,080 --> 00:40:16,680
Speaker 3: No moment.

812
00:40:17,960 --> 00:40:21,319
Speaker 1: With Wilson, Lovely jog Fast. I'm subjecting you to my

813
00:40:21,480 --> 00:40:22,440
Speaker 1: moment of frockrated.

814
00:40:22,480 --> 00:40:23,440
Speaker 3: I I'm here for you.

815
00:40:23,719 --> 00:40:27,800
Speaker 1: So it's a lot of people who are up in

816
00:40:28,040 --> 00:40:32,080
Speaker 1: arms about fairy Wise taking over CBS, except for the

817
00:40:32,160 --> 00:40:35,800
Speaker 1: people who are very excited because she represents their worldview.

818
00:40:36,200 --> 00:40:38,719
Speaker 1: I have a hot take that I'd like you and

819
00:40:38,760 --> 00:40:40,919
Speaker 1: I to chat about for a minute, which is that

820
00:40:41,040 --> 00:40:44,440
Speaker 1: Bary Wise is actually about to engage with the glass

821
00:40:44,440 --> 00:40:46,360
Speaker 1: cliff to end all glass cliffs.

822
00:40:46,760 --> 00:40:51,840
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, explain, CBS is a venerable and honorable institution

823
00:40:52,120 --> 00:40:55,719
Speaker 3: over eighty years now. It is also like a lot

824
00:40:55,719 --> 00:40:58,440
Speaker 3: of media operations targeting a bunch of boomers who will

825
00:40:58,480 --> 00:41:00,640
Speaker 3: be dead soon. When you're media and audience seventy five

826
00:41:00,680 --> 00:41:03,200
Speaker 3: years old, that means half of them are older. It's insane.

827
00:41:03,719 --> 00:41:05,840
Speaker 3: That's not a market you can sustain unless you're selling

828
00:41:06,080 --> 00:41:09,960
Speaker 3: depends and adult supplements. So I think she may shock

829
00:41:10,040 --> 00:41:12,359
Speaker 3: some of her people who look at her and think, oh,

830
00:41:12,440 --> 00:41:15,040
Speaker 3: she's a winger. She's on our side. I think Barry

831
00:41:15,040 --> 00:41:18,040
Speaker 3: Weiss may be more iconoclastic than either the left or

832
00:41:18,080 --> 00:41:20,479
Speaker 3: the right things in this equation. I hope so, because

833
00:41:20,520 --> 00:41:22,480
Speaker 3: I think that would actually be good for the network.

834
00:41:22,640 --> 00:41:24,839
Speaker 3: You know, you take that story brand and those great

835
00:41:24,880 --> 00:41:28,719
Speaker 3: deep resources they have, and if your leadership is let's

836
00:41:28,719 --> 00:41:32,160
Speaker 3: go like make big news and cover big stories, I

837
00:41:32,160 --> 00:41:34,319
Speaker 3: don't know. I think you've got an opportunity there. The

838
00:41:34,400 --> 00:41:38,160
Speaker 3: death knell would be if the corporate dickheads go, Okay,

839
00:41:38,360 --> 00:41:41,680
Speaker 3: soften it up, more news magazine things, that shit is dead.

840
00:41:41,920 --> 00:41:45,400
Speaker 1: You're overly optimistic. I actually think this is just another

841
00:41:45,480 --> 00:41:49,360
Speaker 1: woman being put in an impossible spot to fire people

842
00:41:49,800 --> 00:41:50,880
Speaker 1: and get blamed.

843
00:41:51,000 --> 00:41:53,240
Speaker 3: She may the thing that goes with that long standing,

844
00:41:53,280 --> 00:41:56,960
Speaker 3: storied bureaucracy or institution is a bureaucracy and a culture.

845
00:41:57,200 --> 00:42:01,000
Speaker 3: And even if that culture needs to change, all cultures

846
00:42:01,080 --> 00:42:05,080
Speaker 3: resist change. So I am not a Barry Weiss fanboy,

847
00:42:05,120 --> 00:42:07,439
Speaker 3: and I'm not a Berry Weiss panicker. I think she's

848
00:42:07,560 --> 00:42:11,120
Speaker 3: very smart. And look, she built free Press into something

849
00:42:11,200 --> 00:42:13,800
Speaker 3: meaningful in three and a half years, built a really

850
00:42:13,840 --> 00:42:16,800
Speaker 3: big brand that sold for one hundred fucking million dollars.

851
00:42:16,960 --> 00:42:20,520
Speaker 1: That ain't nothing wow anyway, But agreed.

852
00:42:20,440 --> 00:42:23,760
Speaker 3: If she fails, well they go. Women can't run media networks.

853
00:42:24,200 --> 00:42:25,120
Speaker 2: Yeah they will.

854
00:42:25,400 --> 00:42:28,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, Rick Wilson, I hope you'll come back as always,

855
00:42:28,560 --> 00:42:29,239
Speaker 3: see you next time.

856
00:42:29,880 --> 00:42:34,239
Speaker 1: That's it for this episode of Fast Politics. Tune in

857
00:42:34,560 --> 00:42:40,000
Speaker 1: every Monday, Wednesday, Thursday and Saturday to hear the best

858
00:42:40,080 --> 00:42:44,399
Speaker 1: minds and politics make sense of all this chaos. If

859
00:42:44,440 --> 00:42:47,480
Speaker 1: you enjoy this podcast, Please send it to a friend

860
00:42:47,920 --> 00:42:51,120
Speaker 1: and keep the conversation going. Thanks for listening.