1 00:00:03,400 --> 00:00:06,240 Speaker 1: What's up for Angela yee And we are definitely way 2 00:00:06,360 --> 00:00:09,480 Speaker 1: up today. Now we have author pul Enterprize winning author 3 00:00:09,600 --> 00:00:11,480 Speaker 1: I might ad who by the way, and we're going 4 00:00:11,520 --> 00:00:12,920 Speaker 1: to talk about this too, and if you'll be back 5 00:00:12,960 --> 00:00:15,760 Speaker 1: in the day, okay, Mitchell S. Jackson is here with 6 00:00:15,920 --> 00:00:18,880 Speaker 1: his book Fly, The Big Book of Basketball Fashion. 7 00:00:19,320 --> 00:00:21,079 Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, thank you for having me. 8 00:00:21,320 --> 00:00:22,800 Speaker 3: Oh, thank you for coming. This is right up my 9 00:00:22,880 --> 00:00:23,360 Speaker 3: alley too. 10 00:00:23,560 --> 00:00:23,799 Speaker 2: Yeah. 11 00:00:24,480 --> 00:00:26,680 Speaker 1: You know, it is fashion Week and it's also the 12 00:00:26,760 --> 00:00:29,520 Speaker 1: fiftieth anniversary of hip hop that's right, you know, and 13 00:00:29,920 --> 00:00:33,239 Speaker 1: hip hop and the NBA definitely go hand in hand 14 00:00:33,280 --> 00:00:35,199 Speaker 1: when it comes to fashion and influence. 15 00:00:34,840 --> 00:00:35,800 Speaker 2: Absolutely, you know. 16 00:00:36,320 --> 00:00:38,279 Speaker 1: So let's get started with you a little bit though, 17 00:00:38,320 --> 00:00:40,320 Speaker 1: because you're from Portland, Oregonland. 18 00:00:40,400 --> 00:00:41,479 Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, I'm trying to. 19 00:00:41,440 --> 00:00:44,280 Speaker 3: Think of who else do I know from Portland personally? 20 00:00:46,360 --> 00:00:49,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know an about it. 21 00:00:49,479 --> 00:00:53,319 Speaker 1: I know people that move there because Nike's had Chris Portland, Yeah, 22 00:00:53,360 --> 00:00:56,320 Speaker 1: n Adidas, So I know people that moved to Portland. 23 00:00:55,960 --> 00:00:58,720 Speaker 2: But actual Portland. Yeah, a couple of us. 24 00:00:59,000 --> 00:01:01,400 Speaker 3: And there's not a lot of black people too, no, no, 25 00:01:01,800 --> 00:01:05,040 Speaker 3: like three percent? Wow? Yeah, So how was that for 26 00:01:05,160 --> 00:01:05,760 Speaker 3: you growing up? 27 00:01:05,800 --> 00:01:07,880 Speaker 1: And I know just for people who are listening or 28 00:01:07,959 --> 00:01:10,880 Speaker 1: watching you've written about this, just tell me a little 29 00:01:10,880 --> 00:01:12,560 Speaker 1: bit of what that was like growing up in Portland. 30 00:01:12,680 --> 00:01:15,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I like to describe Portland as kind 31 00:01:15,319 --> 00:01:18,160 Speaker 2: of like a mini La. So whatever is happening in LA, 32 00:01:18,400 --> 00:01:21,040 Speaker 2: Portland is getting that probably a year later or six 33 00:01:21,120 --> 00:01:24,720 Speaker 2: months later, even the same people. So you know, I'm 34 00:01:24,760 --> 00:01:26,360 Speaker 2: forty eight years old. So I grew up in the 35 00:01:26,520 --> 00:01:29,319 Speaker 2: eighties and nineties where obviously hip hop was coming out, 36 00:01:29,360 --> 00:01:30,920 Speaker 2: but sooner enough on the West Coast it was a 37 00:01:30,959 --> 00:01:33,200 Speaker 2: lot of gang banging, and so we got that, and 38 00:01:33,319 --> 00:01:35,920 Speaker 2: people from LA would come to Portland thinking it was 39 00:01:35,959 --> 00:01:39,119 Speaker 2: a new territory or whatever it was. So that really 40 00:01:39,200 --> 00:01:45,880 Speaker 2: kind of defined my early like my youth was was basketball, gangs, 41 00:01:45,920 --> 00:01:47,319 Speaker 2: and then for me it was selling dope. 42 00:01:47,640 --> 00:01:50,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, and even looking at you now, first 43 00:01:50,280 --> 00:01:51,320 Speaker 1: of all, I had to check out what you had 44 00:01:51,360 --> 00:01:53,200 Speaker 1: on because you can't do a book about that. 45 00:01:54,320 --> 00:01:57,520 Speaker 3: But it's very nice even from the what do they 46 00:01:57,560 --> 00:01:58,280 Speaker 3: call it a koutman? 47 00:01:58,360 --> 00:01:59,600 Speaker 2: Yeah, Mas, that's right. 48 00:01:59,720 --> 00:02:04,360 Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm trying to use big words guys, okay, but 49 00:02:04,520 --> 00:02:06,480 Speaker 1: all of that, the glass is everything because I had 50 00:02:06,520 --> 00:02:08,239 Speaker 1: to make sure that this all goes in line. 51 00:02:08,280 --> 00:02:10,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I can't write about fashion and not being fashion. 52 00:02:10,800 --> 00:02:12,640 Speaker 2: That would just be blasphemos really right. 53 00:02:13,360 --> 00:02:15,200 Speaker 1: But it's interesting to me because how you to see 54 00:02:15,240 --> 00:02:17,200 Speaker 1: how you even got here, because you know, you're very 55 00:02:17,240 --> 00:02:19,639 Speaker 1: open about your life story and how Portland shape to you, 56 00:02:20,000 --> 00:02:22,680 Speaker 1: from the gangs, from even your own mother and your 57 00:02:22,720 --> 00:02:25,680 Speaker 1: own family life. So for people who haven't maybe read 58 00:02:25,720 --> 00:02:28,840 Speaker 1: The Residue Years or the other book that you had, 59 00:02:28,880 --> 00:02:31,600 Speaker 1: what was that called Matt the Survival Math? Survival Math, 60 00:02:31,919 --> 00:02:34,160 Speaker 1: can you just give a little bit of insight before 61 00:02:34,200 --> 00:02:36,400 Speaker 1: we get into this about what your background is. 62 00:02:36,600 --> 00:02:40,639 Speaker 2: Yeah, So The Residue Years was an autobiographical novel about 63 00:02:40,960 --> 00:02:43,519 Speaker 2: my mother and her addiction. She struggled with addiction for 64 00:02:43,840 --> 00:02:47,320 Speaker 2: only thirty years, and then when I was in my teens, 65 00:02:47,360 --> 00:02:49,400 Speaker 2: I started selling drugs, and you know that kind of 66 00:02:49,480 --> 00:02:52,600 Speaker 2: intersection of her struggle with drugs and then me selling them. 67 00:02:52,800 --> 00:02:54,519 Speaker 2: I ended up going to prison for a little while, 68 00:02:55,680 --> 00:02:57,880 Speaker 2: and that's actually where I started thinking about writing. So 69 00:02:57,960 --> 00:03:00,320 Speaker 2: I started writing that novel while I was in and 70 00:03:00,440 --> 00:03:02,400 Speaker 2: came home and went to graduate school. I came out 71 00:03:02,400 --> 00:03:03,880 Speaker 2: here to New York to go to graduate school. So 72 00:03:03,919 --> 00:03:06,919 Speaker 2: I graduated from NYU years and almost twenty years ago 73 00:03:07,000 --> 00:03:11,320 Speaker 2: now two thousand and four, and started teaching, and I 74 00:03:11,440 --> 00:03:14,160 Speaker 2: wrote Survival Math really to kind of make more sense 75 00:03:14,200 --> 00:03:16,320 Speaker 2: of that experience and kind of expanded and think about 76 00:03:16,600 --> 00:03:18,959 Speaker 2: why is it that Oregon is such a white place, 77 00:03:19,160 --> 00:03:21,240 Speaker 2: Why is it that Portland is such a white city. 78 00:03:21,560 --> 00:03:25,359 Speaker 2: What's the racial legacy of Oregon? Why do we have 79 00:03:25,520 --> 00:03:28,239 Speaker 2: gangs there? What is the history of gangs even in 80 00:03:28,440 --> 00:03:30,959 Speaker 2: la So I really wanted to make sense to that. 81 00:03:31,040 --> 00:03:34,120 Speaker 2: And I think this book is also making sense of 82 00:03:34,160 --> 00:03:37,160 Speaker 2: a different subject. Right, It's taken fashion and basketball and 83 00:03:37,240 --> 00:03:39,680 Speaker 2: asking why are these guys here? Why are black people? 84 00:03:39,720 --> 00:03:42,440 Speaker 2: Why is the NBA such a black league? Right? Why 85 00:03:42,560 --> 00:03:45,200 Speaker 2: is fashion there too? So it's really always like why 86 00:03:45,240 --> 00:03:46,800 Speaker 2: are these things happening that I'm interested in? 87 00:03:47,200 --> 00:03:51,040 Speaker 1: And you even start up at the beginning of the NBA, Yeah, right, 88 00:03:51,320 --> 00:03:53,119 Speaker 1: when they were at black people exactly. 89 00:03:53,800 --> 00:03:55,080 Speaker 3: So let's start from the beginning. 90 00:03:55,200 --> 00:03:57,640 Speaker 1: And how because you broke this down, right, it starts 91 00:03:57,640 --> 00:04:00,320 Speaker 1: off in nineteen forty six. Yeah, the conforming so is 92 00:04:00,400 --> 00:04:01,960 Speaker 1: that when this league was started. 93 00:04:02,040 --> 00:04:05,120 Speaker 2: Yeah, forty nine the league starts, but there were earlier 94 00:04:05,200 --> 00:04:07,800 Speaker 2: leagues before. So that's why it's an Association because those 95 00:04:07,880 --> 00:04:10,960 Speaker 2: leagues came together to form what we know is the 96 00:04:11,080 --> 00:04:14,880 Speaker 2: NBA National Basketball Association. And yeah, obviously you know this 97 00:04:15,000 --> 00:04:18,120 Speaker 2: is pretty civil rights. So nothing was integrated at that time, 98 00:04:18,240 --> 00:04:22,160 Speaker 2: including sports. They didn't get a black basketball player. I 99 00:04:22,200 --> 00:04:25,240 Speaker 2: think it was until fifty five, which you know, if 100 00:04:25,279 --> 00:04:27,680 Speaker 2: you think about black history, fifty five is also you know, 101 00:04:27,800 --> 00:04:31,520 Speaker 2: a really important important year in black history. So I 102 00:04:31,600 --> 00:04:38,640 Speaker 2: think basketball is really a reflection of national culture of 103 00:04:38,760 --> 00:04:42,280 Speaker 2: what was happening racially in the South, even in the North, right, 104 00:04:42,279 --> 00:04:43,960 Speaker 2: because I mean it starts with the Boston Celtics. 105 00:04:44,240 --> 00:04:48,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, we listen, all right, Well I want to, yeah, 106 00:04:48,200 --> 00:04:49,679 Speaker 1: because then you talk about the passing of the Civil 107 00:04:49,760 --> 00:04:53,440 Speaker 1: Rights Act. But we think about fashion, and there are 108 00:04:53,480 --> 00:04:55,720 Speaker 1: certain people who really stand out in our minds when 109 00:04:55,760 --> 00:04:57,920 Speaker 1: we think about the NBN. We think about fashion first. 110 00:04:57,960 --> 00:05:01,600 Speaker 1: I think Dennis Rodman absolutely, absolutely, and it's not just 111 00:05:01,720 --> 00:05:03,840 Speaker 1: his clothes, but I just remember the iconic picture where 112 00:05:03,880 --> 00:05:04,880 Speaker 1: he had on the wedding. 113 00:05:04,680 --> 00:05:06,159 Speaker 2: Dress yes for his book release. 114 00:05:06,800 --> 00:05:09,320 Speaker 3: Yeah, So what were your thoughts when you first saw that? 115 00:05:09,520 --> 00:05:12,040 Speaker 2: When I saw Dennis rob oh, well, I mean you think, 116 00:05:12,120 --> 00:05:14,479 Speaker 2: like that's a whole different context for me to see 117 00:05:14,560 --> 00:05:17,760 Speaker 2: that right, Like the idea of masculinity was all different 118 00:05:18,080 --> 00:05:20,240 Speaker 2: when I saw Dennis Robman in the nineties doing that, 119 00:05:20,320 --> 00:05:22,800 Speaker 2: So I was like, what is he doing? Why is 120 00:05:22,839 --> 00:05:25,200 Speaker 2: he doing this? I mean, now I can understand it, right, 121 00:05:25,680 --> 00:05:27,720 Speaker 2: but yeah, he's really I mean, if you talk about 122 00:05:27,720 --> 00:05:29,920 Speaker 2: a person that was before his time, Dennis Robin was 123 00:05:29,960 --> 00:05:32,720 Speaker 2: before his time, but before him, we got to talk 124 00:05:32,760 --> 00:05:36,400 Speaker 2: about Walt Frazer, like the nick legends, right, but even 125 00:05:36,440 --> 00:05:39,280 Speaker 2: before him, there's to me Will Chamberlain, a big dude 126 00:05:39,600 --> 00:05:41,279 Speaker 2: who was really really really fly. 127 00:05:42,040 --> 00:05:42,760 Speaker 3: And walth Fraser. 128 00:05:42,880 --> 00:05:44,520 Speaker 1: He was definitely known for his suits. I remember he 129 00:05:44,560 --> 00:05:47,640 Speaker 1: had a restaurant here in the sports bar that he 130 00:05:47,720 --> 00:05:49,719 Speaker 1: had in New York, and you could not miss him. Yeah, 131 00:05:49,880 --> 00:05:51,800 Speaker 1: you know, for many reasons, but it was always his 132 00:05:51,880 --> 00:05:53,719 Speaker 1: suits that he was so well known for and even 133 00:05:53,800 --> 00:05:56,880 Speaker 1: for like sports commentators now we look at the suits 134 00:05:56,920 --> 00:05:58,440 Speaker 1: that they wear and how they're able to stand out, 135 00:05:58,440 --> 00:06:02,000 Speaker 1: but it also was a great way to brand your self, right, absolutely, yes, so, 136 00:06:02,200 --> 00:06:04,360 Speaker 1: and I think with Dennis Rodman, he, like you said, 137 00:06:04,440 --> 00:06:06,400 Speaker 1: was ahead of his time, yeah, for sure, and being 138 00:06:06,400 --> 00:06:08,960 Speaker 1: able to bring himself with his hairstyles man right. 139 00:06:08,960 --> 00:06:13,080 Speaker 2: Like, look at the young guy Jeremy Soshan that at Spurs, 140 00:06:13,120 --> 00:06:15,480 Speaker 2: always changing his hair color. I mean it's really Rodman. 141 00:06:16,440 --> 00:06:19,880 Speaker 1: No, absolutely, and then you know, even I was looking 142 00:06:19,960 --> 00:06:22,000 Speaker 1: at the I don't know if you watched the BMF series. 143 00:06:22,240 --> 00:06:24,120 Speaker 3: I've seen some of the yea yeah, and Jalen Rose 144 00:06:24,200 --> 00:06:25,880 Speaker 3: is actually in that. 145 00:06:26,320 --> 00:06:28,440 Speaker 1: And so when you talk about the influence of hip 146 00:06:28,440 --> 00:06:31,520 Speaker 1: hop and how those things were so connected with the 147 00:06:31,680 --> 00:06:34,280 Speaker 1: NBA and how people started dressing, Alan Iverson is another 148 00:06:34,360 --> 00:06:36,600 Speaker 1: person who always comes to mind when we think about 149 00:06:36,600 --> 00:06:38,800 Speaker 1: the dress code that they have in the NBA and 150 00:06:38,960 --> 00:06:41,800 Speaker 1: how things changed a lot because of him. But I 151 00:06:41,880 --> 00:06:44,040 Speaker 1: also feel like that was the time when you realized 152 00:06:44,600 --> 00:06:46,440 Speaker 1: how racist things could be. 153 00:06:46,839 --> 00:06:50,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely. I mean, you know, hip hop 154 00:06:50,120 --> 00:06:52,080 Speaker 2: for me is I mean, you know, it was born 155 00:06:52,120 --> 00:06:53,800 Speaker 2: out of the struggle, right, It was like a really 156 00:06:53,880 --> 00:06:57,680 Speaker 2: counter culture movement, and so to embody that ethos in 157 00:06:57,880 --> 00:07:00,440 Speaker 2: the NBA, which was really trying to be main like, 158 00:07:01,080 --> 00:07:04,360 Speaker 2: that's a struggle. And I think Irisen, we were also 159 00:07:04,440 --> 00:07:06,320 Speaker 2: coming up here talking about Latrell spree Row, who was 160 00:07:06,320 --> 00:07:10,320 Speaker 2: another guy in that era who was really pushing against 161 00:07:10,440 --> 00:07:13,120 Speaker 2: the rules, right, pushing against what people said you could 162 00:07:13,160 --> 00:07:14,760 Speaker 2: and couldn't do. But it just so happened that I 163 00:07:15,120 --> 00:07:17,280 Speaker 2: not just happened. Irison was a better player obviously, like 164 00:07:17,320 --> 00:07:20,240 Speaker 2: a generational talent, so he mattered more. But there are 165 00:07:20,240 --> 00:07:22,120 Speaker 2: a lot of guys in that moment that were like, 166 00:07:22,840 --> 00:07:24,200 Speaker 2: now we hip hop and this is how we do 167 00:07:24,280 --> 00:07:24,880 Speaker 2: it in hip hop. 168 00:07:25,880 --> 00:07:28,880 Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think, you know, just talking about that 169 00:07:28,920 --> 00:07:31,160 Speaker 1: because with the corn rows, yeah, you know, I feel 170 00:07:31,200 --> 00:07:33,760 Speaker 1: like the hairstyles really mattered a lot, and the baggy clothes, 171 00:07:34,120 --> 00:07:37,480 Speaker 1: the jewelry, the jewelry. Also, I remember Michael Jordan with 172 00:07:37,560 --> 00:07:40,200 Speaker 1: the hoop earrings. You have that in here also, absolutely, 173 00:07:40,440 --> 00:07:42,280 Speaker 1: I think that made people want to go get those 174 00:07:42,320 --> 00:07:45,920 Speaker 1: little hoops. But then he also had the genes that 175 00:07:45,960 --> 00:07:47,680 Speaker 1: people didn't kind of make fun of his gens. 176 00:07:47,760 --> 00:07:50,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I think because hip hop is Jordan 177 00:07:51,040 --> 00:07:53,200 Speaker 2: is like a little bit older than hip hop, right, 178 00:07:53,320 --> 00:07:57,600 Speaker 2: so like we could not understand them highwaisted jeans in 179 00:07:57,720 --> 00:07:58,760 Speaker 2: the nineties. 180 00:07:58,520 --> 00:07:59,560 Speaker 3: Right, you know. 181 00:08:00,200 --> 00:08:03,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, and the Jordan's sneakers though, let's and you also 182 00:08:03,360 --> 00:08:04,960 Speaker 1: have a whole part that hold on. You know, I 183 00:08:05,000 --> 00:08:07,520 Speaker 1: got my little stickies. I love the stickies because I 184 00:08:07,560 --> 00:08:09,280 Speaker 1: don't want to mess up the book at all. Yeah, 185 00:08:09,440 --> 00:08:12,560 Speaker 1: you know, and just even talking about these iconic sneakers, right, 186 00:08:12,600 --> 00:08:15,520 Speaker 1: the top ten sneakers of all times. Right, right, so 187 00:08:15,640 --> 00:08:18,760 Speaker 1: you have the Converse all stars in the sixties. Yeah, my, 188 00:08:18,960 --> 00:08:20,800 Speaker 1: how things have and they're still around. 189 00:08:21,040 --> 00:08:22,400 Speaker 2: To be clear that yea they are. I mean you 190 00:08:22,400 --> 00:08:26,640 Speaker 2: look at those Condent Garson sneakers. I mean those are yeah, 191 00:08:26,760 --> 00:08:27,240 Speaker 2: right exactly. 192 00:08:27,320 --> 00:08:29,360 Speaker 1: I got some colors in them, and Sony did a 193 00:08:29,560 --> 00:08:32,679 Speaker 1: collab with them too, exactly. Yeah, so everybody's still doing collapse. 194 00:08:32,800 --> 00:08:34,280 Speaker 1: Although they kind of hurt my feet. I don't think 195 00:08:34,280 --> 00:08:36,080 Speaker 1: you could play best, Yeah I can't. 196 00:08:36,080 --> 00:08:38,199 Speaker 2: I mean they must have had some cold bunions and 197 00:08:38,280 --> 00:08:41,040 Speaker 2: blisters on their feet back in the fifties, all right. 198 00:08:41,120 --> 00:08:43,880 Speaker 1: Then you have the Prokads, this is in nineteen sixty nine, 199 00:08:44,320 --> 00:08:46,720 Speaker 1: kicked it off, all right, and then the Puma Clyde 200 00:08:46,840 --> 00:08:47,760 Speaker 1: Walk Clive Fraser. 201 00:08:47,880 --> 00:08:49,160 Speaker 3: These are still around, man. 202 00:08:49,000 --> 00:08:50,880 Speaker 2: They still. I mean those are Run DMC any Run 203 00:08:50,920 --> 00:08:52,560 Speaker 2: DMC used to wear some of those two. I feel 204 00:08:52,600 --> 00:08:55,439 Speaker 2: like before my Thetis one hip hop group used to 205 00:08:55,520 --> 00:08:59,040 Speaker 2: have some swayed Swayed Pumas. 206 00:08:59,280 --> 00:09:01,800 Speaker 1: And you know what's so funny, and you might laugh 207 00:09:01,800 --> 00:09:03,920 Speaker 1: at me, I didn't realize that these were his, Like 208 00:09:04,080 --> 00:09:06,400 Speaker 1: I didn't even know that until I was reading this 209 00:09:06,440 --> 00:09:08,360 Speaker 1: book and I was like, oh, that might be some 210 00:09:08,480 --> 00:09:11,199 Speaker 1: ignorance on my part. But then of course the Jordan's Yes, 211 00:09:11,440 --> 00:09:13,679 Speaker 1: and I feel like that is what really changed the 212 00:09:13,720 --> 00:09:14,680 Speaker 1: game for everybody. 213 00:09:14,800 --> 00:09:16,280 Speaker 3: And even watching the movie. 214 00:09:16,040 --> 00:09:18,920 Speaker 1: Air, yes, yes, you know that just came out and 215 00:09:19,040 --> 00:09:20,920 Speaker 1: understanding the whole story behind. 216 00:09:20,640 --> 00:09:23,360 Speaker 2: That amazing film. Yeah, yeah, the way they got him, 217 00:09:23,400 --> 00:09:25,679 Speaker 2: I mean Sonny for Carol, like shout out to him 218 00:09:25,760 --> 00:09:28,439 Speaker 2: from being so persistent and doing that. But yeah, Jordan's 219 00:09:28,480 --> 00:09:31,079 Speaker 2: really really, I mean, that's that's the turn, right, Like 220 00:09:31,559 --> 00:09:34,080 Speaker 2: I don't know of another sneaker brand where people stand 221 00:09:34,160 --> 00:09:37,680 Speaker 2: outside for days to get the new release. 222 00:09:37,600 --> 00:09:40,360 Speaker 1: And the times even risk their lives yeah, you know, 223 00:09:40,720 --> 00:09:43,839 Speaker 1: and steal them from other people too, Yeah, exactly. So 224 00:09:43,960 --> 00:09:46,480 Speaker 1: let me ask you this, how growing up in Portland, right, 225 00:09:46,920 --> 00:09:49,520 Speaker 1: did Nike was that influential to you at all? Because 226 00:09:49,720 --> 00:09:51,839 Speaker 1: being that their headquarters was there were there things that 227 00:09:51,880 --> 00:09:53,760 Speaker 1: they did in the community. Was that something that like 228 00:09:53,880 --> 00:09:56,720 Speaker 1: as a young kid, everybody was kind of looking to Nike. 229 00:09:57,040 --> 00:10:00,960 Speaker 2: Absolutely. We had a program called so Enhancement in corporate 230 00:10:01,000 --> 00:10:03,760 Speaker 2: it's still going maybe forty years now, and we used 231 00:10:03,800 --> 00:10:06,120 Speaker 2: to do basketball camp so basically every pro player that 232 00:10:06,280 --> 00:10:09,199 Speaker 2: came through Portland went through this basketball camp and we 233 00:10:09,320 --> 00:10:12,080 Speaker 2: would get free Nikes at the camp at the end 234 00:10:12,080 --> 00:10:14,040 Speaker 2: of the week, and Nike would always spy and the 235 00:10:14,080 --> 00:10:15,760 Speaker 2: people would be like, man, give me the trade. This 236 00:10:15,880 --> 00:10:18,640 Speaker 2: shites and all that, and then my first pair of Jordans. 237 00:10:18,679 --> 00:10:20,520 Speaker 2: We had a Nike in the hood, but it wasn't 238 00:10:20,559 --> 00:10:23,080 Speaker 2: a big corporate store, just like a little almost named 239 00:10:23,120 --> 00:10:24,880 Speaker 2: mom and pop store, and that's where you would go 240 00:10:24,920 --> 00:10:27,120 Speaker 2: to get your Jordans from Nike Union. I remember getting 241 00:10:27,400 --> 00:10:29,960 Speaker 2: the Jordan Ones from Nike Union. So yeah, they were definitely, 242 00:10:30,120 --> 00:10:31,559 Speaker 2: I mean, not as big as they are now in 243 00:10:31,600 --> 00:10:33,960 Speaker 2: the community, but they certainly were reaching out to us. 244 00:10:34,320 --> 00:10:37,000 Speaker 1: Do you remember a time when you couldn't get because 245 00:10:37,000 --> 00:10:39,000 Speaker 1: I remember being younger and not being able to get 246 00:10:39,040 --> 00:10:40,800 Speaker 1: the sneakers that I wanted and what a big deal 247 00:10:40,880 --> 00:10:41,160 Speaker 1: that was. 248 00:10:41,240 --> 00:10:43,800 Speaker 2: In school, absolutely we had a place where you could 249 00:10:43,800 --> 00:10:47,000 Speaker 2: go get two for one, like right before school two 250 00:10:47,040 --> 00:10:50,240 Speaker 2: for one gets in. But but British Knights spot built. 251 00:10:50,480 --> 00:10:53,880 Speaker 2: Remember those sneakers British Nights. Yeah, you know, it's the 252 00:10:53,960 --> 00:10:57,360 Speaker 2: same era, it's the same air British Knights La gear. 253 00:10:57,440 --> 00:10:58,760 Speaker 2: I didn't mess with the La Gears. 254 00:10:58,800 --> 00:11:00,360 Speaker 3: But you know, it's so crazy. I wanted to throw 255 00:11:00,360 --> 00:11:01,760 Speaker 3: so bad and my mom shut me down. 256 00:11:02,240 --> 00:11:03,679 Speaker 2: You wanted the lights, Yeah, I did. 257 00:11:03,840 --> 00:11:06,040 Speaker 3: I wanted those. My mom was like no, ma'am, Like 258 00:11:06,160 --> 00:11:06,400 Speaker 3: I'm not. 259 00:11:07,240 --> 00:11:09,160 Speaker 2: I see little girls now with the little lights on 260 00:11:09,200 --> 00:11:11,600 Speaker 2: the back of their shoes. Yeah. 261 00:11:11,679 --> 00:11:13,520 Speaker 3: Okay, So let's go through somewhere of these New Yas 262 00:11:13,559 --> 00:11:15,360 Speaker 3: the Congress weapon ye Red Hill. 263 00:11:15,800 --> 00:11:17,920 Speaker 2: Yeah, oh big, I had those feelings. 264 00:11:17,960 --> 00:11:18,160 Speaker 1: Yeah. 265 00:11:18,360 --> 00:11:20,760 Speaker 3: You know what I was surprised is where's the Patrick Ewings? 266 00:11:22,320 --> 00:11:25,640 Speaker 2: He? You know, I'm not necessarily a New York centric guy. 267 00:11:25,760 --> 00:11:29,120 Speaker 2: I do think Patrick Ewing is a great player, and 268 00:11:29,240 --> 00:11:32,720 Speaker 2: certainly his shoes deserve a not in the top fifteen. 269 00:11:32,840 --> 00:11:34,880 Speaker 2: He just look in the top ten. All right. 270 00:11:34,960 --> 00:11:37,760 Speaker 3: I just gotta ask because I feel like those the. 271 00:11:37,760 --> 00:11:40,319 Speaker 2: Big tongue on them. Yeah, they were definitely some great shoes. 272 00:11:40,400 --> 00:11:42,920 Speaker 3: Yeah, and still I felt like to this day, like, yeah, 273 00:11:42,960 --> 00:11:43,400 Speaker 3: I think. 274 00:11:43,360 --> 00:11:46,400 Speaker 2: People just re released those. Yeah, so he's still going. 275 00:11:46,720 --> 00:11:49,520 Speaker 1: Okay, Now, moving on right, since you talked about how 276 00:11:49,559 --> 00:11:51,599 Speaker 1: you felt when you first saw Dennis Rodman in the 277 00:11:51,640 --> 00:11:54,280 Speaker 1: wedding dress. Yeah, but then we see like Sarah Jebacca, 278 00:11:54,400 --> 00:11:57,160 Speaker 1: we see Russell Westburg, Tom Brown. Yeah, I felt like 279 00:11:57,280 --> 00:12:00,240 Speaker 1: that brand in particular is when I see people wearing 280 00:12:00,320 --> 00:12:02,640 Speaker 1: like the long skirts and I see them dressed like that, 281 00:12:03,040 --> 00:12:04,520 Speaker 1: that is a risky thing. 282 00:12:04,760 --> 00:12:09,120 Speaker 2: Yes, for sure. Yeah, I think we can't talk about 283 00:12:09,160 --> 00:12:11,760 Speaker 2: that outside of hip hop right and thinking about like 284 00:12:12,480 --> 00:12:16,079 Speaker 2: ASAP and Kid cutting and even Kanye with the with 285 00:12:16,160 --> 00:12:18,559 Speaker 2: the polos and you know and the pink polos. I 286 00:12:18,640 --> 00:12:23,000 Speaker 2: think because to me, hip hop in NBA fashion are 287 00:12:23,080 --> 00:12:26,360 Speaker 2: so intertwined that those guys are all kind of taking 288 00:12:26,440 --> 00:12:28,839 Speaker 2: these leaps together. And I don't think any one of 289 00:12:28,920 --> 00:12:31,800 Speaker 2: them would have taken that leap without another person being 290 00:12:31,880 --> 00:12:35,120 Speaker 2: present to do it. But certainly, yeah, Tom Brown as 291 00:12:35,160 --> 00:12:37,600 Speaker 2: a brand in the in the kill and the heritage 292 00:12:37,640 --> 00:12:40,959 Speaker 2: of that gave people a way to express themselves. I 293 00:12:41,000 --> 00:12:42,959 Speaker 2: also think we can't divoice it from what's happening with 294 00:12:43,040 --> 00:12:46,360 Speaker 2: the LGBTQ plus you know movement, So we don't get 295 00:12:46,800 --> 00:12:50,120 Speaker 2: to this as a kind of mainstream look without those 296 00:12:50,160 --> 00:12:50,960 Speaker 2: other things happening. 297 00:12:51,320 --> 00:12:53,280 Speaker 1: And even with Russell Westbrook with the chances that he 298 00:12:53,400 --> 00:12:55,880 Speaker 1: takes when it comes to his fashion, people always comment, 299 00:12:55,920 --> 00:12:57,640 Speaker 1: but then you get to see him sitting next to 300 00:12:57,720 --> 00:13:01,520 Speaker 1: Anna Wintour, which we actually have this book. Also, you know, 301 00:13:01,640 --> 00:13:03,760 Speaker 1: sitting in front row it's fashion week, and sitting in 302 00:13:03,800 --> 00:13:06,199 Speaker 1: front row at those fashion shows, which is a big deal. 303 00:13:06,320 --> 00:13:10,199 Speaker 1: And seeing these NBA players in like GQ magazine and 304 00:13:10,720 --> 00:13:13,120 Speaker 1: you know, hearing so much what they were also when 305 00:13:13,200 --> 00:13:15,680 Speaker 1: they're going through the tunnel, when they're walking through the tunnel, 306 00:13:15,760 --> 00:13:19,040 Speaker 1: you know, pregame, post game, those outfits are really important. Yeah, 307 00:13:19,280 --> 00:13:22,600 Speaker 1: and for even for designers to have one of those 308 00:13:23,000 --> 00:13:26,839 Speaker 1: players wearing theirs designs is a huge deal. 309 00:13:27,120 --> 00:13:30,200 Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, I mean it's I mean, I'm be interested 310 00:13:30,240 --> 00:13:32,360 Speaker 2: to see where it goes because it also feels so 311 00:13:32,600 --> 00:13:36,400 Speaker 2: corporate too now, like the stepping repeats are now you know, 312 00:13:36,679 --> 00:13:39,360 Speaker 2: they got corporate logos on them, and you know it's 313 00:13:39,880 --> 00:13:42,000 Speaker 2: going to be And I also think, like you know, 314 00:13:42,080 --> 00:13:43,680 Speaker 2: when you're in the hood, like there are some people 315 00:13:43,760 --> 00:13:45,679 Speaker 2: that got a little more money than the other people 316 00:13:45,800 --> 00:13:47,920 Speaker 2: and they can do some more stuff or you got 317 00:13:48,040 --> 00:13:49,760 Speaker 2: to figure out how to get it. When you're in 318 00:13:49,800 --> 00:13:53,079 Speaker 2: the league, basically everybody can buy whatever they want. So 319 00:13:53,200 --> 00:13:56,559 Speaker 2: in that way, then it's really about taste or information 320 00:13:56,840 --> 00:13:59,000 Speaker 2: or who you know, right, And so I think it'll 321 00:13:59,040 --> 00:14:01,319 Speaker 2: be interesting to see how far they can keep pushing 322 00:14:01,360 --> 00:14:04,160 Speaker 2: it when when even the league minimum is enough to 323 00:14:04,200 --> 00:14:05,120 Speaker 2: do whatever you want to do. 324 00:14:05,840 --> 00:14:09,240 Speaker 1: What are some brands that you've seen actually break thanks 325 00:14:09,320 --> 00:14:11,440 Speaker 1: to the NBA or a player. 326 00:14:12,480 --> 00:14:15,600 Speaker 2: I say Fear of God. Okay, probably the latest one 327 00:14:15,679 --> 00:14:17,920 Speaker 2: that really, you know, because I mean he started streetwear, 328 00:14:18,000 --> 00:14:19,640 Speaker 2: right and now he's really high fashion. 329 00:14:21,080 --> 00:14:23,400 Speaker 3: And those are the ones where it says like essentials. 330 00:14:23,080 --> 00:14:25,360 Speaker 2: Yeah, but even though that's his, that's that's not his 331 00:14:25,480 --> 00:14:30,600 Speaker 2: main line. Essentials is like the lower brand, yeah yeah, yeah, 332 00:14:31,080 --> 00:14:33,160 Speaker 2: the other one, the other one got the jeans is, 333 00:14:33,480 --> 00:14:39,200 Speaker 2: you know, a thousand dollars another Well, I think Tom 334 00:14:39,280 --> 00:14:42,320 Speaker 2: Brown really got a boost, right, he was already around, 335 00:14:42,400 --> 00:14:44,440 Speaker 2: but I don't think he would be as popular as 336 00:14:44,480 --> 00:14:47,200 Speaker 2: he is without without the NBA. But I also feel 337 00:14:47,280 --> 00:14:49,600 Speaker 2: like the NBA players, and this I think really goes 338 00:14:49,640 --> 00:14:52,560 Speaker 2: back to hip hop. Two, Like, the marker of success 339 00:14:53,000 --> 00:14:56,200 Speaker 2: is usually a European heritage brand, right, So it's a 340 00:14:56,280 --> 00:15:00,880 Speaker 2: product or Balinciaga or an Italian one Ucci, right. So 341 00:15:01,120 --> 00:15:03,800 Speaker 2: I feel like people still think of those as the 342 00:15:03,880 --> 00:15:07,080 Speaker 2: markers of success and the most fashionable. So it's harder 343 00:15:07,200 --> 00:15:09,800 Speaker 2: for you know, the black designers, I think, or people 344 00:15:09,880 --> 00:15:11,800 Speaker 2: of color to kind of push through unless than running 345 00:15:11,840 --> 00:15:12,920 Speaker 2: one of those major houses. 346 00:15:13,200 --> 00:15:15,000 Speaker 3: What do you think about the NBA having a dress 347 00:15:15,040 --> 00:15:16,320 Speaker 3: code when they implemented that. 348 00:15:16,680 --> 00:15:21,240 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think well it was smart when it happened 349 00:15:21,400 --> 00:15:23,680 Speaker 2: because look at where they are now, you know, with 350 00:15:23,800 --> 00:15:26,680 Speaker 2: these I mean over the summer they were giving out contracts. 351 00:15:26,760 --> 00:15:28,920 Speaker 2: It seemed like everybody was hitting the lottery, you know, 352 00:15:29,160 --> 00:15:33,920 Speaker 2: and so you don't get to that without mainstreaming your league. 353 00:15:34,080 --> 00:15:36,240 Speaker 2: But then and then also, we don't get to this 354 00:15:36,480 --> 00:15:40,600 Speaker 2: era of fashion without the strictness of a dress code, right, 355 00:15:40,640 --> 00:15:42,920 Speaker 2: those guys aren't going to strit start. Like I think 356 00:15:42,960 --> 00:15:45,200 Speaker 2: about fashion is like you can't just do whatever you want. 357 00:15:45,280 --> 00:15:47,720 Speaker 2: You actually have to have some restrictions. And then it's 358 00:15:48,000 --> 00:15:50,520 Speaker 2: how fashionable can you be inside of those restrictions? And 359 00:15:50,680 --> 00:15:53,640 Speaker 2: so the dress code gave them restrictions, and inside of 360 00:15:53,720 --> 00:15:55,920 Speaker 2: that we started getting dudes who could dress up and 361 00:15:55,960 --> 00:15:58,600 Speaker 2: be fashionable, which led us down this road to these 362 00:15:58,640 --> 00:15:59,120 Speaker 2: other guys. 363 00:16:00,000 --> 00:16:02,720 Speaker 1: It's about Russell Westbrook, we talked about of course, Michael Jordan, 364 00:16:03,560 --> 00:16:04,400 Speaker 1: Alan Iverson. 365 00:16:04,920 --> 00:16:07,560 Speaker 3: We haven't talked about Lebron yet. We talked about Walclive Fraser. 366 00:16:07,840 --> 00:16:09,560 Speaker 1: Who would you say, if you have to name one 367 00:16:09,640 --> 00:16:12,880 Speaker 1: person that has been the most influential in the NBA 368 00:16:12,960 --> 00:16:17,680 Speaker 1: when it comes to fashion, the most influential when it 369 00:16:17,760 --> 00:16:19,480 Speaker 1: comes to where the kids are, like, that's who I 370 00:16:19,600 --> 00:16:20,160 Speaker 1: want to look like. 371 00:16:20,480 --> 00:16:24,600 Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I think that's I think right now. It 372 00:16:24,720 --> 00:16:26,800 Speaker 2: has to be made like the young kids. I always 373 00:16:26,840 --> 00:16:33,400 Speaker 2: say it's probably like Shay Bias, Gillias Alexander who he's 374 00:16:33,480 --> 00:16:37,320 Speaker 2: voted most Fashionable man by GQ twice in a row. 375 00:16:37,720 --> 00:16:39,400 Speaker 2: But I don't really think that a lot of people 376 00:16:39,440 --> 00:16:42,240 Speaker 2: are necessarily emulating that look. I think they admire it. 377 00:16:42,320 --> 00:16:45,080 Speaker 2: I think there's a difference between emulating a certain look 378 00:16:45,120 --> 00:16:48,920 Speaker 2: and then admiring it. So I would say, even though 379 00:16:49,000 --> 00:16:52,360 Speaker 2: he's now the elder stationman in the league, Lebron yeah, 380 00:16:52,720 --> 00:16:56,280 Speaker 2: because he does so many things different kinds of looks. 381 00:16:56,320 --> 00:16:57,960 Speaker 2: Like he does a street where look, he does a 382 00:16:58,040 --> 00:17:00,920 Speaker 2: high fashion look. He has all there read that they want. 383 00:17:02,240 --> 00:17:04,680 Speaker 2: He always has the new sneakers right like memory he 384 00:17:04,760 --> 00:17:08,040 Speaker 2: got the Tiffany blue Nike for everybody else, right. So 385 00:17:08,480 --> 00:17:12,399 Speaker 2: I try to think Lebron is still up here in 386 00:17:12,560 --> 00:17:15,919 Speaker 2: terms of fashion in a fashion that people want to emulate, 387 00:17:16,000 --> 00:17:18,240 Speaker 2: like they want to have the new stuff. He's not 388 00:17:18,400 --> 00:17:22,360 Speaker 2: necessarily the most taking the most risk, but he's doing 389 00:17:22,480 --> 00:17:23,760 Speaker 2: things that translate to so. 390 00:17:23,760 --> 00:17:26,399 Speaker 1: It's more relatable. Yeah, you know, definitely more. I think 391 00:17:26,560 --> 00:17:28,560 Speaker 1: John Morant is probably very relatable too. 392 00:17:28,680 --> 00:17:31,480 Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, if you're from the South, you know, you 393 00:17:31,520 --> 00:17:34,000 Speaker 2: want some gold fronts, it's some color in your braids, 394 00:17:34,040 --> 00:17:36,880 Speaker 2: and yeah, John Morn, but that ain't how we doing 395 00:17:36,920 --> 00:17:37,760 Speaker 2: it on the West Coast. 396 00:17:38,800 --> 00:17:41,240 Speaker 1: And another thing, and you also address this in the book, 397 00:17:41,359 --> 00:17:43,840 Speaker 1: is also being able to make a statement politically. 398 00:17:44,119 --> 00:17:46,600 Speaker 3: Yes, right, so that we are Trayvon Martin. That was 399 00:17:46,680 --> 00:17:47,880 Speaker 3: a moment, Yes, for sure. 400 00:17:48,400 --> 00:17:50,680 Speaker 1: You know when Lebron and I feel like when it 401 00:17:50,760 --> 00:17:53,159 Speaker 1: comes to those political statements, Lebron leads the charge on 402 00:17:53,280 --> 00:17:55,600 Speaker 1: a lot of that too, and that's important. I remember 403 00:17:55,920 --> 00:17:58,119 Speaker 1: you have this in here to Eric Garner, I can't breathe, 404 00:17:58,480 --> 00:18:00,240 Speaker 1: you know, being able to make those statements, and I 405 00:18:00,320 --> 00:18:02,320 Speaker 1: think that was important at a time when the NFL 406 00:18:02,560 --> 00:18:06,480 Speaker 1: was not able exactly to be on that same wavelength, right, 407 00:18:06,560 --> 00:18:08,840 Speaker 1: they were getting shut down. But the NBA was like, no, 408 00:18:09,000 --> 00:18:11,800 Speaker 1: we can make sure that we have a voice because 409 00:18:12,119 --> 00:18:13,720 Speaker 1: we also represent these people. 410 00:18:13,960 --> 00:18:17,880 Speaker 2: Yeah. There's a photo in this book of the Bubble 411 00:18:18,160 --> 00:18:20,520 Speaker 2: and Lebron when I think it's the year he first 412 00:18:20,520 --> 00:18:23,639 Speaker 2: got to the Lakers and they are all kneeling, and 413 00:18:23,800 --> 00:18:27,440 Speaker 2: Lebron has the black power fist up kneeling like that's 414 00:18:27,480 --> 00:18:31,800 Speaker 2: a double shot of black resistance inside of the bubble 415 00:18:31,920 --> 00:18:33,439 Speaker 2: with the rest of the Lakers their arm in arm, 416 00:18:33,480 --> 00:18:36,840 Speaker 2: And I'm like, there's no way another league would allow 417 00:18:36,960 --> 00:18:38,840 Speaker 2: that to happen. Now, it has to be one of 418 00:18:38,920 --> 00:18:41,359 Speaker 2: your most popular players, because anybody else is just then 419 00:18:41,400 --> 00:18:43,200 Speaker 2: you might moved aufdu rauf and you're not in the 420 00:18:43,240 --> 00:18:45,639 Speaker 2: league no more. So it had to be Lebron or 421 00:18:45,720 --> 00:18:48,040 Speaker 2: someone like that leading the charge. But I mean, I 422 00:18:48,119 --> 00:18:51,280 Speaker 2: look at when we had the summer of twenty twenty. 423 00:18:52,000 --> 00:18:54,440 Speaker 2: Who was the first league to come out and say something. 424 00:18:54,800 --> 00:18:57,879 Speaker 2: Who was the last league to come out and say something? Right? 425 00:18:58,160 --> 00:19:01,919 Speaker 2: What league allowed their players to speak? What league were censored, 426 00:19:01,960 --> 00:19:03,879 Speaker 2: were censoring their players? And so I think it's very 427 00:19:03,920 --> 00:19:06,080 Speaker 2: clear there the NBA is a forerunner in. 428 00:19:06,119 --> 00:19:09,760 Speaker 1: This, no absolutely, And even from team to team too, 429 00:19:09,840 --> 00:19:14,239 Speaker 1: I think some team management also we're not sure how 430 00:19:14,280 --> 00:19:16,600 Speaker 1: to handle things. Yeah, at a time like that, like 431 00:19:16,760 --> 00:19:18,560 Speaker 1: do we speak, do we release a statement? 432 00:19:19,160 --> 00:19:21,399 Speaker 2: I mean you're looking at where your team is located, right, 433 00:19:21,480 --> 00:19:23,480 Speaker 2: like I'm in Phoenix, now, Like that's a whole different 434 00:19:23,560 --> 00:19:25,760 Speaker 2: market from being in New York. That's it. You know, 435 00:19:26,080 --> 00:19:28,000 Speaker 2: when I was in Phoenix last year and they were 436 00:19:28,080 --> 00:19:30,360 Speaker 2: voting everywhere I go there like get rid of CRT 437 00:19:30,600 --> 00:19:35,000 Speaker 2: and you know, like you I can't imagine them pushing 438 00:19:35,520 --> 00:19:38,280 Speaker 2: Black Resistance as a Phoenix sun right. 439 00:19:38,720 --> 00:19:39,239 Speaker 3: No, you're right. 440 00:19:39,359 --> 00:19:42,000 Speaker 1: That was definitely critical and some of those are those 441 00:19:42,040 --> 00:19:45,119 Speaker 1: are really powerful moments. I feel like at that time, 442 00:19:45,160 --> 00:19:47,000 Speaker 1: the NFL should have been ashamed of themselves to be 443 00:19:47,080 --> 00:19:49,959 Speaker 1: able to see the impact that their players and teams 444 00:19:50,119 --> 00:19:52,960 Speaker 1: could have on community relations and for people to be 445 00:19:53,119 --> 00:19:55,560 Speaker 1: like no, just and even like with Lebron, shut up 446 00:19:55,560 --> 00:19:55,960 Speaker 1: and dribble. 447 00:19:56,119 --> 00:19:57,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, you know that was. 448 00:19:58,600 --> 00:20:00,840 Speaker 3: That was definitely something that he managed to take and 449 00:20:00,920 --> 00:20:01,480 Speaker 3: turn around. 450 00:20:01,520 --> 00:20:03,879 Speaker 2: Also absolutely, yeah, you know all right. 451 00:20:03,920 --> 00:20:06,760 Speaker 1: And I also want to talk about the use of stylists, yes, 452 00:20:07,119 --> 00:20:10,760 Speaker 1: you know, because you do have Kalala Beaver's featured in 453 00:20:10,800 --> 00:20:12,680 Speaker 1: this book also, and she said that a lot of 454 00:20:12,720 --> 00:20:16,159 Speaker 1: the players are very loyal, yes, and want to make 455 00:20:16,200 --> 00:20:17,840 Speaker 1: sure that a lot of them also kind of use 456 00:20:17,920 --> 00:20:18,800 Speaker 1: the same stylists. 457 00:20:18,880 --> 00:20:21,119 Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, I mean that's got a lot to be 458 00:20:21,160 --> 00:20:22,880 Speaker 2: a lot of pressure on the stylist, right to try 459 00:20:22,920 --> 00:20:29,600 Speaker 2: to get a different thing, you ain't gonna keep a job. Yeah, yeah, 460 00:20:29,720 --> 00:20:33,800 Speaker 2: I mean I think when I think about stylists, first 461 00:20:33,840 --> 00:20:36,280 Speaker 2: of all, you have to have personal tastes again, right, 462 00:20:36,320 --> 00:20:39,479 Speaker 2: because if you're a stylist and you don't, I mean, 463 00:20:39,480 --> 00:20:41,439 Speaker 2: if you're a player and you have a stylist, they 464 00:20:41,440 --> 00:20:43,920 Speaker 2: can just bring you stuff that makes you actually feel uncomfortable, 465 00:20:43,960 --> 00:20:47,080 Speaker 2: in which case you're not gonna look good or confident 466 00:20:47,119 --> 00:20:48,560 Speaker 2: in it any way. So you still have to have 467 00:20:48,720 --> 00:20:51,720 Speaker 2: some sense of what you like and what you don't like. 468 00:20:53,000 --> 00:20:55,400 Speaker 2: And then I think the stylist role is to beat 469 00:20:55,560 --> 00:20:58,680 Speaker 2: is to know what's next, right, to introduce you to 470 00:20:58,760 --> 00:21:00,560 Speaker 2: a brand that you might not know about, to tell 471 00:21:00,600 --> 00:21:03,919 Speaker 2: you about fit in fabrication and how you get your 472 00:21:04,000 --> 00:21:06,280 Speaker 2: end scene done and how you get your your sport 473 00:21:06,400 --> 00:21:08,840 Speaker 2: coat tapered up. And so I think that's a part 474 00:21:08,840 --> 00:21:11,320 Speaker 2: of their job is to educate them. Like I think, 475 00:21:11,480 --> 00:21:14,320 Speaker 2: ultimately a fact a stylished job, it's almost to put 476 00:21:14,359 --> 00:21:16,920 Speaker 2: themselves out of business. I don't hope that none of 477 00:21:17,000 --> 00:21:18,440 Speaker 2: y'all are listening and get out of the business, but 478 00:21:18,640 --> 00:21:21,919 Speaker 2: like to educate your your clients so much that they 479 00:21:21,960 --> 00:21:23,880 Speaker 2: are they know how to make these decisions on their. 480 00:21:23,800 --> 00:21:26,240 Speaker 1: Own right, but they maybe maybe just like it's so 481 00:21:26,320 --> 00:21:27,879 Speaker 1: much and they're so loyal, they're going to keep u 482 00:21:28,040 --> 00:21:30,239 Speaker 1: using you. It's also hard to be as tall as 483 00:21:30,280 --> 00:21:33,399 Speaker 1: somebody like Shocked, Yeah, and be able to dress in 484 00:21:33,480 --> 00:21:36,919 Speaker 1: a way that is always flattering because sometimes clothes can 485 00:21:37,240 --> 00:21:39,080 Speaker 1: fall a little bit differently. Yeah. 486 00:21:39,200 --> 00:21:41,320 Speaker 2: Yeah, you definitely got to go a lot of custom if. 487 00:21:41,760 --> 00:21:44,280 Speaker 2: I mean, that's why Shack is not really a fashionable guy, right, 488 00:21:44,359 --> 00:21:46,400 Speaker 2: Like he wears clothes. I don't go to the store 489 00:21:46,840 --> 00:21:49,720 Speaker 2: ready to wear. No, No, he needs that. Remember that 490 00:21:49,840 --> 00:21:53,359 Speaker 2: old food boot that was five x Yes, the people that. 491 00:21:53,440 --> 00:21:55,159 Speaker 3: Was like Lil Wayne was wearing it even though he 492 00:21:55,280 --> 00:21:56,400 Speaker 3: was very small. Yeah. 493 00:21:57,240 --> 00:22:00,640 Speaker 1: Yeah, now, But honestly, like this book, it's really fun 494 00:22:00,720 --> 00:22:02,959 Speaker 1: to It actually brought me back to like a lot 495 00:22:03,000 --> 00:22:06,720 Speaker 1: of different moments just seeing some of the iconic things 496 00:22:06,760 --> 00:22:09,360 Speaker 1: that have happened with NBA, with fashion. But like you said, 497 00:22:09,400 --> 00:22:12,120 Speaker 1: it is very reflective of the time period that we're 498 00:22:12,160 --> 00:22:15,800 Speaker 1: in and also even what's happening in the world is 499 00:22:15,880 --> 00:22:18,440 Speaker 1: reflected in this. So definitely when you guys have a 500 00:22:18,560 --> 00:22:20,520 Speaker 1: chance to read something like this. Also, I think about 501 00:22:21,200 --> 00:22:23,080 Speaker 1: about Jalen Rose and his perfect hairline. 502 00:22:23,280 --> 00:22:25,960 Speaker 2: Oh my God, he put the black end there too. 503 00:22:26,000 --> 00:22:28,400 Speaker 2: He said it though, but he said it. He said 504 00:22:28,440 --> 00:22:30,880 Speaker 2: it right. It don't matter how color my hair. Yeah, 505 00:22:31,040 --> 00:22:32,640 Speaker 2: I mean crispy hairline boy. 506 00:22:34,640 --> 00:22:36,600 Speaker 3: No, absolutely. And Instagram. 507 00:22:36,680 --> 00:22:38,360 Speaker 1: That's the last thing because I feel like that's where 508 00:22:38,400 --> 00:22:41,959 Speaker 1: we're at right now with Instagram really influencing the fashion 509 00:22:41,960 --> 00:22:43,800 Speaker 1: because can you wear the same thing twice? You know 510 00:22:43,960 --> 00:22:48,040 Speaker 1: something I saw there was a sales associate that was 511 00:22:48,080 --> 00:22:51,560 Speaker 1: discussing how some of these players will buy the clothing 512 00:22:51,600 --> 00:22:52,000 Speaker 1: then return. 513 00:22:52,080 --> 00:22:54,399 Speaker 2: Oh really, but people used to do that back in 514 00:22:54,440 --> 00:22:55,280 Speaker 2: the day, just not rich. 515 00:22:55,400 --> 00:22:57,679 Speaker 1: But it's different when you're on Instagram where is something 516 00:22:57,840 --> 00:22:59,879 Speaker 1: and people know who you are and then you go 517 00:23:00,200 --> 00:23:03,199 Speaker 1: turn it. And it sparked this whole discussion about if 518 00:23:03,240 --> 00:23:05,960 Speaker 1: you're gonna wear something you know one time it's kind 519 00:23:06,000 --> 00:23:08,159 Speaker 1: of and then return it, it's not fair to the 520 00:23:08,240 --> 00:23:11,480 Speaker 1: salesperson because then they're thinking they made and then you 521 00:23:11,560 --> 00:23:13,360 Speaker 1: wore it, so we know you wore it. So they've 522 00:23:13,359 --> 00:23:15,040 Speaker 1: been changing like return policies. 523 00:23:15,600 --> 00:23:17,760 Speaker 3: So what are your thoughts on that. I'm just curious. 524 00:23:17,920 --> 00:23:20,879 Speaker 2: I hadn't heard about the rich NBA guys doing that, 525 00:23:21,040 --> 00:23:23,320 Speaker 2: but I mean that's what a stylist does, right, like 526 00:23:23,440 --> 00:23:25,000 Speaker 2: you you get something, you wear. 527 00:23:25,080 --> 00:23:27,800 Speaker 1: You return, but usually they have a restocking feed, so 528 00:23:28,320 --> 00:23:30,480 Speaker 1: you buy it with the intention of knowing that you 529 00:23:30,600 --> 00:23:33,359 Speaker 1: work with somebody and they know that you're actually gonna 530 00:23:33,359 --> 00:23:36,560 Speaker 1: be using this, and then you pay like a percentage 531 00:23:36,600 --> 00:23:38,240 Speaker 1: that's a restocking fee. So people do that when they 532 00:23:38,280 --> 00:23:39,000 Speaker 1: work with stylists. 533 00:23:39,040 --> 00:23:40,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, so, I mean I could see that. I mean 534 00:23:41,040 --> 00:23:44,480 Speaker 2: I think it's it's unfair to the again, yes, to 535 00:23:44,600 --> 00:23:47,560 Speaker 2: the salesperson, but as a as a as a player, 536 00:23:47,840 --> 00:23:51,280 Speaker 2: you're not gonna wear it again almost echo conscious really 537 00:23:51,400 --> 00:23:54,600 Speaker 2: because if you're only going to wear it once, like, 538 00:23:55,320 --> 00:23:57,159 Speaker 2: what are you gonna do with it after that? You know, 539 00:23:57,280 --> 00:23:59,400 Speaker 2: so maybe you donate it. I guess there's another way 540 00:23:59,480 --> 00:24:01,560 Speaker 2: to make it to to be more friendly with it. 541 00:24:01,680 --> 00:24:06,280 Speaker 2: But yeah, again, I want the people who are working 542 00:24:06,320 --> 00:24:08,920 Speaker 2: in the industry who are not you know, rich, to 543 00:24:09,040 --> 00:24:12,040 Speaker 2: be getting there to keep their living wages. But yeah, 544 00:24:12,040 --> 00:24:14,600 Speaker 2: I mean I think it's it's it makes a little 545 00:24:14,600 --> 00:24:16,040 Speaker 2: bit of sense. I don't do it, but it makes 546 00:24:16,040 --> 00:24:16,960 Speaker 2: a little bit of sense to me. 547 00:24:17,240 --> 00:24:17,880 Speaker 3: Okay, let me see. 548 00:24:18,080 --> 00:24:21,240 Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, I ain't doing it. I ain't doing I should. 549 00:24:23,080 --> 00:24:25,120 Speaker 1: Well listen, I really appreciate you for coming through because 550 00:24:25,119 --> 00:24:27,120 Speaker 1: I know it's fashion week. I know you're also on tour, 551 00:24:27,160 --> 00:24:28,320 Speaker 1: so let's make sure we talk about that. 552 00:24:28,680 --> 00:24:32,119 Speaker 2: Yeah, people can catch you at the Schomberg kicking it 553 00:24:32,200 --> 00:24:33,840 Speaker 2: off the Center for Black Culture. 554 00:24:33,520 --> 00:24:35,359 Speaker 1: Which one of my favorite places to be part of 555 00:24:35,400 --> 00:24:36,919 Speaker 1: the New York Public Library System. 556 00:24:37,000 --> 00:24:39,639 Speaker 2: Absolutely. Absolutely, Yeah, So I'm there and then I'm I'm 557 00:24:39,760 --> 00:24:42,680 Speaker 2: I'm around you know, Atlanta, La, the kind of regular 558 00:24:42,720 --> 00:24:44,760 Speaker 2: stops that you go to on book tour. But I'm 559 00:24:44,800 --> 00:24:48,560 Speaker 2: really excited about tonight at the Schomberg and then September 560 00:24:48,640 --> 00:24:50,840 Speaker 2: twentieth in my hometown of Portland. You know, we're one 561 00:24:50,880 --> 00:24:53,280 Speaker 2: of the most literary. Were white, but we literary too. 562 00:24:55,600 --> 00:24:57,800 Speaker 1: No, absolutely, but you guys check it out, even for 563 00:24:57,960 --> 00:25:00,200 Speaker 1: like a there's some great articles in here, but even 564 00:25:00,200 --> 00:25:02,600 Speaker 1: for a coffee table book. Yes, you know, and you 565 00:25:02,640 --> 00:25:05,840 Speaker 1: don't have to be like the biggest NBA. It is 566 00:25:06,040 --> 00:25:08,640 Speaker 1: still interesting to look at to see how fashion has progressed, 567 00:25:08,680 --> 00:25:10,680 Speaker 1: like you said, through different errors. 568 00:25:11,040 --> 00:25:13,719 Speaker 3: And I'm really hoping the w n b A has 569 00:25:13,760 --> 00:25:14,240 Speaker 3: been killing it. 570 00:25:14,400 --> 00:25:16,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, they need to get their own for sure. For sure, 571 00:25:17,040 --> 00:25:20,840 Speaker 2: I think that Sue Berg and Megan are probably the 572 00:25:21,000 --> 00:25:22,840 Speaker 2: most fashionable couple in sports. 573 00:25:23,440 --> 00:25:25,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, and that has to be fun for them too, Yeah, 574 00:25:25,720 --> 00:25:27,160 Speaker 1: you know, to be able to see that. But you guys, 575 00:25:27,240 --> 00:25:29,480 Speaker 1: make sure y'all check this out and again and also 576 00:25:29,600 --> 00:25:31,360 Speaker 1: you know, just go back to the beginning and read 577 00:25:31,400 --> 00:25:33,760 Speaker 1: the residue years please, do you know, make sure you 578 00:25:33,840 --> 00:25:37,240 Speaker 1: see Mitchell's whole entire story, because again, my friend d 579 00:25:37,400 --> 00:25:40,480 Speaker 1: Watkins is like a huge I want to I am 580 00:25:40,560 --> 00:25:41,679 Speaker 1: going to say fan, because he is a. 581 00:25:41,680 --> 00:25:42,240 Speaker 3: Fan of yours. 582 00:25:42,800 --> 00:25:45,200 Speaker 2: Is a friend. But yeah, but that's good. 583 00:25:45,280 --> 00:25:47,159 Speaker 1: I think that's good that we can be friends but 584 00:25:47,280 --> 00:25:49,560 Speaker 1: also be fans of each other and the great work 585 00:25:49,600 --> 00:25:50,200 Speaker 1: that you've been doing. 586 00:25:50,240 --> 00:25:51,480 Speaker 3: So I appreciate you for coming through. 587 00:25:51,600 --> 00:25:53,480 Speaker 2: Did we move on that Smooth magazine? 588 00:25:53,760 --> 00:25:58,880 Speaker 3: Oh my god? All so yeah, here's the story, long 589 00:25:58,960 --> 00:26:03,200 Speaker 3: lone ago and that had to be like when I 590 00:26:03,320 --> 00:26:05,440 Speaker 3: when I was on Serious, Yes it was before. 591 00:26:05,520 --> 00:26:06,640 Speaker 2: Yes, that's the when this move. 592 00:26:06,960 --> 00:26:08,320 Speaker 3: I feel like it might have went out of business, 593 00:26:08,400 --> 00:26:08,879 Speaker 3: did it did? 594 00:26:08,960 --> 00:26:10,880 Speaker 2: I don't remember what year, but I mean I ain't 595 00:26:10,920 --> 00:26:12,800 Speaker 2: been there for ten years, so I mean when you 596 00:26:12,880 --> 00:26:14,040 Speaker 2: were you as serious. 597 00:26:13,960 --> 00:26:17,200 Speaker 3: That was over? That was like thirteen years ago. 598 00:26:17,359 --> 00:26:18,520 Speaker 2: There we go, Yeah we did? 599 00:26:18,960 --> 00:26:22,080 Speaker 3: You interviewed me Chris Smooth Magazine Not very risque. 600 00:26:22,320 --> 00:26:24,119 Speaker 2: No no no no no no no no. This is 601 00:26:24,359 --> 00:26:26,440 Speaker 2: just just a regular profile. 602 00:26:26,640 --> 00:26:28,399 Speaker 1: Yes, but no, I appreciate it. And I love the 603 00:26:28,440 --> 00:26:30,080 Speaker 1: fact that we're crossing pass again and I know we're 604 00:26:30,080 --> 00:26:31,840 Speaker 1: gonna end up doing a lot more together. 605 00:26:31,960 --> 00:26:33,159 Speaker 2: All right, appreciate it, you know. 606 00:26:33,320 --> 00:26:36,960 Speaker 1: I listen, Politic Prize winning author. Let's not forget that part. 607 00:26:37,400 --> 00:26:38,680 Speaker 1: That part, okay, Mitchell S. 608 00:26:38,800 --> 00:26:40,800 Speaker 2: Jackson, I feel like baby put some spec on it. 609 00:26:42,880 --> 00:26:45,600 Speaker 1: You wanted to say that it's like the big Book 610 00:26:45,680 --> 00:26:47,920 Speaker 1: of Basketball fashion. And by the way, also a great 611 00:26:47,960 --> 00:26:49,640 Speaker 1: gift to give somebody things like this and what I'm 612 00:26:49,640 --> 00:26:51,520 Speaker 1: always looking for, like what can I give us a present? 613 00:26:51,640 --> 00:26:52,359 Speaker 2: So this is it. 614 00:26:52,640 --> 00:26:53,960 Speaker 3: It's way up at Angela Yee.