WEBVTT - Lab 030: Signed, Sealed, Delivered

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<v Speaker 1>Have you been seeing all this stuff going on with

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<v Speaker 1>the USPS?

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, honey, I am disgusted.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, the USPS is so critical to everything. I don't understand,

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<v Speaker 1>like how we can even be considering moving this money

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<v Speaker 1>around and not giving it to them, Like how are

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<v Speaker 1>we going to even function? I can't imagine life without

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<v Speaker 1>the USPS.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, and you know I love to send a letter.

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<v Speaker 2>Everybody and my family worked at the post office growing up,

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<v Speaker 2>so I am wed to the post office. I used

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<v Speaker 2>to collect stamps as a kid. Okay, so yes, I

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<v Speaker 2>used to collect stamps, stamps, and X Men cars. Those

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<v Speaker 2>are the things I collected. I collected POGs, Oh, I

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<v Speaker 2>remember those. Yes, I know what you were supposed to

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<v Speaker 2>do with them.

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<v Speaker 1>I didn't know. I just had a little tupperware container

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<v Speaker 1>full of them, just looked at them and that was it.

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<v Speaker 2>I think the pog came before the beanie baby, right.

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<v Speaker 1>I think so. And I didn't have a single beanie baby.

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<v Speaker 1>Do y'all still have y'all beanie babies?

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<v Speaker 2>They're dusty if you still have them, I know that

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<v Speaker 2>unless you are they machine washable.

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<v Speaker 1>Don't they got beans on the inside?

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<v Speaker 2>All those beans come out?

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<v Speaker 1>You got enough beans? To make a bean back chair.

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<v Speaker 1>Repurpose those things you reduce, reuse, recycle. I'm t T

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<v Speaker 1>and I'm Zachiah and from Spotify. This is dope Labs.

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<v Speaker 2>Everybody's talking about buying stamps and showing their books to stamps.

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<v Speaker 2>My favorite stamp right now is the Marvin Gaye stamp.

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<v Speaker 2>It's hard to find them. It's hard to find.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm just this is something I did not know about

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<v Speaker 1>my friend, and it makes complete sense.

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<v Speaker 2>Actually, you haven't been paying attention to the stamps.

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<v Speaker 1>I send you no Okay, so zakiya. When anything big

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<v Speaker 1>happens or anything that she feels like is significant in

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<v Speaker 1>your life, she will send you a really really nice

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<v Speaker 1>card with a note in it. I still have some

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<v Speaker 1>of them where she's saying congratulations, I'm so proud of you,

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<v Speaker 1>handwritten everything, so so nice. But I have never paid

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<v Speaker 1>attention to the stamp.

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<v Speaker 2>What the stamp is always on brand, it's on themes. Okay,

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<v Speaker 2>you need to go back. If you have those envelopes,

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<v Speaker 2>I do not post at these for the postcards you

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<v Speaker 2>should be able to see.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, well, I don't have the envelopes, but I trust

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<v Speaker 1>that they were on brand because the card itself was

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<v Speaker 1>always on Brandy. I always had a black woman on

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<v Speaker 1>the front. They're always very, very good. So let's talk

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<v Speaker 1>about why folks have been stepping up to support the USPS.

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<v Speaker 2>The post Office, or the United States Postal Service, is

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<v Speaker 2>operated by the federal government, and for many years it's

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<v Speaker 2>been operating at a deficit. So that's like a business

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<v Speaker 2>is running and you're not turn a profit. But the

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<v Speaker 2>thing to remember is that most federal agencies operated as

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<v Speaker 2>a deficit in. The post Office is the only one

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<v Speaker 2>that doesn't get money from the government to operate, and

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<v Speaker 2>so it was really hit hard. Just like we talked

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<v Speaker 2>about individuals taking a loss in a really bad financial

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<v Speaker 2>hit from coronavirus, the post Office had the same thing.

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<v Speaker 1>And then on top of all of that, we get

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<v Speaker 1>a new Postmaster General who says that he's going to

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<v Speaker 1>be using these cost cutting mechanisms and that would limit

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<v Speaker 1>the reach of the USPS.

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<v Speaker 2>So basically, our postal service is in trouble.

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<v Speaker 1>One of the ways you can support the USPS is

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<v Speaker 1>by sending more letters, and for me, that's kind of

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<v Speaker 1>like a double his sword. I want to support the USPS,

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<v Speaker 1>but I really hate my handwriting, so I don't want

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<v Speaker 1>to do that. And my printer is out of ink,

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<v Speaker 1>so typing something up is kind of like out of

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<v Speaker 1>the question. I need to pray just more ink. And

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<v Speaker 1>I don't want people to know what my handwriting looks like.

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<v Speaker 1>I go to great lengths to shield everyone from my handwriting.

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<v Speaker 2>Everybody join me in this moment of lifting tt in

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<v Speaker 2>that handwriting up.

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<v Speaker 1>Once you see it, you're gonna put it right back down.

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<v Speaker 2>I welcome those bubble letters.

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<v Speaker 1>See, I don't want to be described as someone that

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<v Speaker 1>had that writes in bubble letters like I'm not eight,

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<v Speaker 1>I'm not eight years old.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm a girl. That's the way I'm saying it. Those

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<v Speaker 2>voluptuous strokes. What about that?

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<v Speaker 1>Your handwriting thick with two c's okay? So our question

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<v Speaker 1>is about our writing because since we're going to be

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<v Speaker 1>supporting the USPS more, it got us thinking about writing,

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<v Speaker 1>different people's writing styles, how we learn to write, and

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<v Speaker 1>so we just had more questions than answers, and so

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<v Speaker 1>we thought we would dig into it.

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<v Speaker 2>Take it to the experts. Today's lab is about written languages,

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<v Speaker 2>specifically alphabetic.

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<v Speaker 1>Languages with alphabetic languages like English, Greek, or Russian, each

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<v Speaker 1>written symbol corresponds to an individual sound. The difference between

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<v Speaker 1>alphabetic and non alphabetic systems is that non alphabetic languages

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<v Speaker 1>have written symbols that correspond to larger groups of sound,

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<v Speaker 1>like syllables or whole words like Chinese. Let's get into

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<v Speaker 1>the recitation. What do we know? We know writing is important, yes,

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<v Speaker 1>and we know that everybody writes differently. I think that's it.

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<v Speaker 1>I think that's all that we know about about handwriting sadly,

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<v Speaker 1>So what do we want to know?

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<v Speaker 2>I think I need to know more about how we

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<v Speaker 2>actually learn to write, what's happening in our brains?

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, And I want to know the history of writing,

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<v Speaker 1>because I mean, it's definitely changed over time, I think.

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<v Speaker 1>And so I just want to know, like how it

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<v Speaker 1>all started and how we got to this place that

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<v Speaker 1>we are now.

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<v Speaker 2>And I think the million dollar question, you know, we

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<v Speaker 2>see it in different places. Does handwriting have much meaning?

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<v Speaker 2>Does it say something about who you are? Right?

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<v Speaker 1>Because I would like to believe that the way that

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<v Speaker 1>I write and the judgment I receive is unfounded, like

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<v Speaker 1>no base and those two things don't there's no connection.

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<v Speaker 2>Whoever's judging TT you need to stop it right.

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<v Speaker 1>Now, it's probably mostly me judging myself, Like I'll write

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<v Speaker 1>a sentence, I'll be like, oh girl, type Itney.

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<v Speaker 2>Free you from that. Let's jump into the dissection. So listen,

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<v Speaker 2>this is a very broad subject. There's a lot that

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<v Speaker 2>we want to unpack here.

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<v Speaker 1>Yes, and I mean, we can't fit everything that has

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<v Speaker 1>to do with the language into this episode, but there's

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<v Speaker 1>a lot of things that we're going to hit and

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<v Speaker 1>we have the perfect person to take us through it all.

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<v Speaker 3>My name is Bob Wiley, and I'm an assistant professor

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<v Speaker 3>in the Department of Psychology at the University of North Carolina, Greensborough.

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<v Speaker 2>Doctor Wylie's area of focus is on written language and

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<v Speaker 2>specifically how learning affects perception and how cognitive psychology can

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<v Speaker 2>be used to improve learning outcomes. And when you study

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<v Speaker 2>letters for a living, doctor Wyllie says, you start to

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<v Speaker 2>see them everywhere.

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<v Speaker 3>Oh it's bad. I see them in places that they're not,

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<v Speaker 3>you know, Like I'm looking at your door behind you

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<v Speaker 3>right now, and I see l's and t's in there

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<v Speaker 3>right I see letters all the time.

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<v Speaker 1>And he's not making this up. We started by asking

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<v Speaker 1>doctor Wylie where letters actually come from and he says,

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<v Speaker 1>they're all around us.

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<v Speaker 3>There's a fascinating theory about so why do our letters

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<v Speaker 3>look the way they do? And so people have looked

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<v Speaker 3>at all the different written languages across the world and

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<v Speaker 3>across history, and so what they found is that there

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<v Speaker 3>are certain shapes like an L, a T, and X

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<v Speaker 3>those are different that seem to come up across the

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<v Speaker 3>world's languages. And what they found is that the prevalence

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<v Speaker 3>how common those are seems to match with how commonly

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<v Speaker 3>we see those types of intersections in nature.

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<v Speaker 2>If you think about the way a tree trunk meets

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<v Speaker 2>the ground, that's a vertical line hitting a horizontal line

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<v Speaker 2>that forms a T like intersection. So what doctor Wily

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<v Speaker 2>is saying is that the intersections that actually occur in

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<v Speaker 2>nature more often seem to be the ones that we

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<v Speaker 2>see more often in our written language as well.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm looking at my window right now, and based on that,

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<v Speaker 1>I do see a lot of x's, a lot of t's,

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<v Speaker 1>and a lot of l's. Like I'm looking at this

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<v Speaker 1>brick house next door, and I see l's, I see t's.

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<v Speaker 1>When I look in the window, I see well, not

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<v Speaker 1>in the window at the window, I'm not looking.

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<v Speaker 2>Into the way. I don't know. You probably got tom.

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<v Speaker 2>You gotta keep folks. I see l's and t's. That's

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<v Speaker 2>so crazy. There's a lot of A frame houses. How

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<v Speaker 2>come we don't have p framed houses? And you frame

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<v Speaker 2>you want to live in a U house?

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<v Speaker 1>No, no, you. My friend would complain.

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<v Speaker 2>She would not like, and you're complaining.

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<v Speaker 1>Now you're complaining clothes.

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<v Speaker 2>Aside from the intersections that we commonly see in nature,

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<v Speaker 2>early adaptations of letters were also derived from pictures or

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<v Speaker 2>symbols of the objects they represent.

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<v Speaker 3>So when you go back and you look at the

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<v Speaker 3>earliest forms of languages, they were pictographic. So they started.

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<v Speaker 3>What people would do is they would draw a shape,

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<v Speaker 3>you know, so to write the word son, you draw

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<v Speaker 3>a shape of the sun.

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<v Speaker 1>So from there people were like, okay, I have this

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<v Speaker 1>symbol which means son. And the first sound of the

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<v Speaker 1>word son is the S sound, so sun. So from

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<v Speaker 1>there they were like, okay, I can use this symbol

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<v Speaker 1>just to represent the S sound.

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<v Speaker 2>Doctor Wilie gave us another example of how the letter

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<v Speaker 2>A came about.

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<v Speaker 3>Out A was alip, which was the word for ox.

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<v Speaker 3>And you can still kind of see it if you

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<v Speaker 3>turn an a upside down and it looks like an

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<v Speaker 3>ox or like a cow with its horns. So that's

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<v Speaker 3>where that came from.

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<v Speaker 1>And doctor Wiley says that this is true for a

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<v Speaker 1>lot of letters, that they all started from pictographic representation

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<v Speaker 1>of an object and then over time it slowly became

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<v Speaker 1>what we know as our alphabet today.

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<v Speaker 3>Writing is slow drawing pictures. I mean, can you imagine

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<v Speaker 3>if we had to draw our emojis? It would take

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<v Speaker 3>so long. And so as languages developed and in order

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<v Speaker 3>to be faster, they changed their shapes. They became simplified.

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<v Speaker 2>He also brought up another good point that affects the

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<v Speaker 2>way we have our written alphabet now, and that's the

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<v Speaker 2>tools that were available.

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<v Speaker 3>So if you look at a culture where they were

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<v Speaker 3>using a stylus in clay, that led to different types

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<v Speaker 3>of shapes than if you were using a brush and ink.

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<v Speaker 3>If you're putting a chisel and stone. That's because you

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<v Speaker 3>can manipulate those things differently. It's easier or harder to

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<v Speaker 3>make different shapes. And so that actually ended up influencing

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<v Speaker 3>what our letters look like.

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<v Speaker 1>Imagine trying to write the letter S with a chisel

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<v Speaker 1>and stone.

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<v Speaker 2>It's not happening.

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<v Speaker 1>That's gonna be way too hard. That's a lot of

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<v Speaker 1>chipping that you got to do. But the letter X,

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<v Speaker 1>that's very easy.

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<v Speaker 2>It's crazy to think that those things determine the letters

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<v Speaker 2>that we ended up learning in kindergarten or whenever we

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<v Speaker 2>learned them. Do you remember, you.

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<v Speaker 1>Know, sometimes I have little memories of when I could

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<v Speaker 1>not read, and I was trying to figure out how

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<v Speaker 1>to read because I knew kind of like what certain

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<v Speaker 1>letters sounded like. But then you know, you get to

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<v Speaker 1>certain words and that letter doesn't sound like that, a

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<v Speaker 1>C sounds like an S, and being very confused.

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<v Speaker 3>I mean, I don't have to tell you right. English

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<v Speaker 3>is a mess, right, Even C isn't always cut right.

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<v Speaker 3>Sometimes it's like circle. I don't say. Actually, when I

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<v Speaker 3>was a kid, I used to say kirkle because to me,

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<v Speaker 3>I was like C camp be both uh and cu.

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<v Speaker 3>So either it's a circle, but it can't you know,

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<v Speaker 3>you can't mix them. But it took me a while

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<v Speaker 3>to figure that out. That's a that's a problem English has.

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<v Speaker 2>The only thing I remember from the actual learning part

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<v Speaker 2>of reading and writing was trying to figure out what

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<v Speaker 2>my parents were spelling to each other. I know they

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<v Speaker 2>were spelling it, so I wouldn't know exactly that. I

0:12:19.920 --> 0:12:21.120
<v Speaker 2>was like, what is that?

0:12:21.280 --> 0:12:24.720
<v Speaker 1>No secrets kept from my friend Zakia. So she's like,

0:12:24.760 --> 0:12:29.480
<v Speaker 1>I've got to learn how to read quick quickly. I

0:12:29.520 --> 0:12:31.360
<v Speaker 1>think all of our parents did that when they didn't

0:12:31.400 --> 0:12:33.280
<v Speaker 1>want to want us to know what was going on.

0:12:33.640 --> 0:12:35.720
<v Speaker 2>You know, when we take all of that into account,

0:12:35.800 --> 0:12:40.720
<v Speaker 2>it's really crazy to think that your ease of or

0:12:40.760 --> 0:12:43.720
<v Speaker 2>your mastery of the written language depends on things that

0:12:43.760 --> 0:12:47.640
<v Speaker 2>happened so long ago, like when you were three, four

0:12:47.640 --> 0:12:51.360
<v Speaker 2>and five. Doctor Wilie really helped us hone in the

0:12:51.400 --> 0:12:53.280
<v Speaker 2>importance of those early years.

0:12:53.400 --> 0:12:56.079
<v Speaker 3>Something we have to keep in mind about written language,

0:12:56.480 --> 0:12:58.080
<v Speaker 3>like one of the biggest things that makes it different

0:12:58.120 --> 0:13:02.200
<v Speaker 3>from spoken languages you have to learn it. So you know,

0:13:02.240 --> 0:13:06.160
<v Speaker 3>you probably know that a child will learn any language

0:13:06.280 --> 0:13:09.600
<v Speaker 3>you know, verbal that it grows up around effortlessly. No

0:13:09.640 --> 0:13:11.960
<v Speaker 3>one has to teach them. You just learn your language.

0:13:12.400 --> 0:13:15.280
<v Speaker 3>And that's not the case with written language. You have

0:13:15.360 --> 0:13:17.000
<v Speaker 3>to be instructed to learn it.

0:13:17.120 --> 0:13:20.600
<v Speaker 2>That's such a good point, right, It's not inherent the

0:13:20.679 --> 0:13:24.360
<v Speaker 2>ability to write and read. Somebody has to teach it,

0:13:24.360 --> 0:13:27.160
<v Speaker 2>and so much of your ability to do this rest

0:13:27.240 --> 0:13:32.760
<v Speaker 2>on the access to quality education at a young age.

0:13:32.440 --> 0:13:35.520
<v Speaker 1>And throughout history there have been people who have been

0:13:35.840 --> 0:13:40.080
<v Speaker 1>denied that access. And it is only in very recent

0:13:40.320 --> 0:13:45.600
<v Speaker 1>history that people have been allowed to learn how to

0:13:46.000 --> 0:13:46.600
<v Speaker 1>read and write.

0:13:46.720 --> 0:13:49.880
<v Speaker 3>Up until not that long ago, very very few people

0:13:49.960 --> 0:13:51.840
<v Speaker 3>could read and write, you know, so you think that, oh,

0:13:51.920 --> 0:13:54.400
<v Speaker 3>but they had written language in ancient Egypt, and you're like, sure,

0:13:54.640 --> 0:13:57.600
<v Speaker 3>for twenty people who are like recording things in the court, right, Like,

0:13:57.640 --> 0:14:00.160
<v Speaker 3>no one, hardly anyone knew how to do this.

0:14:00.160 --> 0:14:01.960
<v Speaker 1>This wasn't granted at the same time to all.

0:14:01.920 --> 0:14:05.280
<v Speaker 2>People, and it's not at the same level, even though

0:14:05.320 --> 0:14:08.480
<v Speaker 2>it's granted now, definitely not at the same level. In fact,

0:14:08.520 --> 0:14:11.320
<v Speaker 2>a lot of schools now are de emphasizing the importance

0:14:11.320 --> 0:14:13.840
<v Speaker 2>of learning handwriting since so many of us are using

0:14:14.040 --> 0:14:15.920
<v Speaker 2>phones and computers to write keyboards.

0:14:15.960 --> 0:14:19.680
<v Speaker 3>Basically, cursive has mostly gone from schools, and even just

0:14:19.680 --> 0:14:23.160
<v Speaker 3>the time given to handwriting it's really decreased because it's

0:14:23.160 --> 0:14:26.920
<v Speaker 3>not part of them, right, it's not technically science, technology,

0:14:27.000 --> 0:14:29.120
<v Speaker 3>education or math. But you know what some of us

0:14:29.120 --> 0:14:30.680
<v Speaker 3>always point is, you don't do any of those things

0:14:30.680 --> 0:14:32.920
<v Speaker 3>without reading and writing. Like, please try to do a

0:14:32.920 --> 0:14:35.360
<v Speaker 3>science project without reading something. Please try to do that,

0:14:35.400 --> 0:14:38.360
<v Speaker 3>it's not going to happen. And I think there are

0:14:38.360 --> 0:14:43.240
<v Speaker 3>getting seminis that there are costs to this shift away

0:14:43.760 --> 0:14:46.640
<v Speaker 3>from the actual handwriting.

0:14:46.400 --> 0:14:49.880
<v Speaker 2>Aspect, and it's not just about needing to write in

0:14:50.000 --> 0:14:54.280
<v Speaker 2>order to study other subjects. Writing by hand also helps

0:14:54.360 --> 0:14:56.560
<v Speaker 2>us actually learn better.

0:14:56.680 --> 0:14:59.720
<v Speaker 3>You can, for example, take people who either children who

0:14:59.800 --> 0:15:03.520
<v Speaker 3>are still just learning language or adults learning in new alphabets,

0:15:03.560 --> 0:15:06.400
<v Speaker 3>so as they're learning the letters, they actually learned to

0:15:06.400 --> 0:15:10.000
<v Speaker 3>write them by hand. There's all kinds of benefits. So

0:15:10.640 --> 0:15:13.560
<v Speaker 3>in terms of behavior, they are going to memorize those

0:15:13.600 --> 0:15:17.320
<v Speaker 3>letters more quickly, they're going to retain them for longer

0:15:17.840 --> 0:15:22.440
<v Speaker 3>compared to if you just study them visually or if

0:15:22.480 --> 0:15:24.440
<v Speaker 3>you learn them by typing as well.

0:15:24.680 --> 0:15:29.440
<v Speaker 1>And this rings true for me specifically, because that is

0:15:29.480 --> 0:15:32.480
<v Speaker 1>the way that I learned pretty much all things. And

0:15:32.560 --> 0:15:36.600
<v Speaker 1>it started in high school for me when I realized, oh,

0:15:36.680 --> 0:15:38.720
<v Speaker 1>my goodness, I think I've cracked the code on how

0:15:38.760 --> 0:15:42.840
<v Speaker 1>to really memorize or learn some things. Because I was

0:15:43.280 --> 0:15:46.440
<v Speaker 1>awful in biology, just awful. It was really really hard

0:15:46.440 --> 0:15:49.640
<v Speaker 1>for me to remember all of these things. So what

0:15:49.680 --> 0:15:52.840
<v Speaker 1>I started doing was this. If my teacher said, oh,

0:15:52.880 --> 0:15:55.200
<v Speaker 1>we're going to be having a quiz on chapter three.

0:15:55.920 --> 0:15:59.800
<v Speaker 1>I would read chapter three and then I would write

0:16:00.720 --> 0:16:02.840
<v Speaker 1>the entire chapter. So I would look at each word

0:16:02.880 --> 0:16:05.400
<v Speaker 1>and write them down in a separate notebook. And when

0:16:05.440 --> 0:16:09.880
<v Speaker 1>I did that, I felt like everything was like being reinforced.

0:16:09.880 --> 0:16:12.880
<v Speaker 1>It was like pouring concrete over all that information. And

0:16:12.920 --> 0:16:17.640
<v Speaker 1>so writing in my own handwriting definitely has a strong

0:16:17.760 --> 0:16:18.840
<v Speaker 1>link to learning for me.

0:16:19.200 --> 0:16:22.960
<v Speaker 2>For me, it's also reading handwriting that makes a difference

0:16:23.000 --> 0:16:24.840
<v Speaker 2>for me if I have notes and I go back

0:16:24.920 --> 0:16:28.400
<v Speaker 2>and I can remember things like I can see, oh,

0:16:28.400 --> 0:16:31.640
<v Speaker 2>I wrote this. There has also been some evidence about

0:16:31.640 --> 0:16:34.640
<v Speaker 2>the tie in for other people reading handwriting. It's also

0:16:34.680 --> 0:16:37.680
<v Speaker 2>a teaching strategy where folks are adding handwriting to type

0:16:37.720 --> 0:16:39.920
<v Speaker 2>texts to help you retain information.

0:16:40.040 --> 0:16:42.200
<v Speaker 3>So what do we know about why that might be. Well,

0:16:42.240 --> 0:16:44.280
<v Speaker 3>here's a few things we know about that. When we

0:16:44.360 --> 0:16:47.560
<v Speaker 3>look at things like letters, we don't just look at

0:16:47.560 --> 0:16:51.160
<v Speaker 3>the pattern in terms of a static image. We also

0:16:51.480 --> 0:16:55.080
<v Speaker 3>automatically think about how was that created? And this is

0:16:55.200 --> 0:16:59.200
<v Speaker 3>especially true when we're reading handwriting as opposed to print.

0:16:59.560 --> 0:17:01.960
<v Speaker 3>And that's why when people are reading, we see all

0:17:02.000 --> 0:17:04.399
<v Speaker 3>kinds of activity in the motor part of the brain,

0:17:04.920 --> 0:17:06.320
<v Speaker 3>there's a lot of activity in the part of the

0:17:06.320 --> 0:17:08.800
<v Speaker 3>brain that you use for writing. Even when you're not writing,

0:17:08.840 --> 0:17:12.359
<v Speaker 3>you can just be laying there board as hell looking

0:17:12.440 --> 0:17:14.520
<v Speaker 3>at words, and that part of your brain that thinks

0:17:14.520 --> 0:17:17.040
<v Speaker 3>about how would I write that, it's very, very active,

0:17:18.040 --> 0:17:20.520
<v Speaker 3>and so that seems to be part of why it's

0:17:20.560 --> 0:17:24.360
<v Speaker 3>so important to have that handwriting experience because we actually

0:17:24.480 --> 0:17:27.280
<v Speaker 3>use that not just for writing, we also use that

0:17:27.320 --> 0:17:27.879
<v Speaker 3>for reading.

0:17:28.280 --> 0:17:31.520
<v Speaker 1>So we've learned a lot about writing from a historical perspective,

0:17:32.119 --> 0:17:36.200
<v Speaker 1>but also psychological and sociological. We're going to take a

0:17:36.280 --> 0:17:38.200
<v Speaker 1>quick break and when we get back, we're going to

0:17:38.280 --> 0:17:42.159
<v Speaker 1>talk all about the biological aspects of writing and reading.

0:17:42.800 --> 0:18:03.080
<v Speaker 1>What's actually happening in our brains. And we're back, let's

0:18:03.280 --> 0:18:06.240
<v Speaker 1>actually talk about the brain and what's happening when we

0:18:06.280 --> 0:18:06.919
<v Speaker 1>see letters.

0:18:06.960 --> 0:18:08.960
<v Speaker 2>So the first stage is a stimulus. This is just

0:18:09.000 --> 0:18:10.720
<v Speaker 2>seeing letters on the page.

0:18:10.359 --> 0:18:13.120
<v Speaker 3>When we look at say just a single word, right

0:18:13.240 --> 0:18:16.320
<v Speaker 3>like cat when you are a fluent reader. All right,

0:18:16.320 --> 0:18:18.399
<v Speaker 3>so let's just talk about adults. It's a separate thing.

0:18:18.440 --> 0:18:20.119
<v Speaker 3>You know, with children who are in they're first learning,

0:18:20.280 --> 0:18:22.200
<v Speaker 3>but once you're adult and you know how to read,

0:18:22.440 --> 0:18:25.439
<v Speaker 3>all that process it's automatized to the point that you

0:18:25.600 --> 0:18:28.919
<v Speaker 3>cannot help but recognize that word. And that's because the

0:18:29.040 --> 0:18:32.640
<v Speaker 3>average adult has read billions of letters. By the time

0:18:32.680 --> 0:18:35.720
<v Speaker 3>they're say forty or fifty, you've seen billions of letters.

0:18:36.320 --> 0:18:38.600
<v Speaker 3>And so one of the things that's so crazy about

0:18:38.600 --> 0:18:41.280
<v Speaker 3>that is there aren't that many things like you know,

0:18:41.320 --> 0:18:44.600
<v Speaker 3>that many objects that we get that much exposure to.

0:18:44.920 --> 0:18:47.680
<v Speaker 2>This relates back to what doctor Wiley was saying earlier

0:18:47.680 --> 0:18:50.919
<v Speaker 2>about the origins of letters. We see them everywhere, not

0:18:51.080 --> 0:18:53.320
<v Speaker 2>just in nature, but in our day to day lives.

0:18:53.320 --> 0:18:55.560
<v Speaker 2>We're just exposed to letters all the time.

0:18:55.640 --> 0:18:58.919
<v Speaker 3>What we do really quickly when we're reading is we

0:18:59.000 --> 0:19:03.600
<v Speaker 3>actually abstract from what we're seeing. Whether I write kat

0:19:03.840 --> 0:19:05.919
<v Speaker 3>by hand, or I see it typed in you know,

0:19:06.040 --> 0:19:09.480
<v Speaker 3>capital letters, or I see it in lowercase letters, we

0:19:09.640 --> 0:19:12.920
<v Speaker 3>really quickly abstract away that information at some level is

0:19:12.960 --> 0:19:14.399
<v Speaker 3>sort of discarded by the brain.

0:19:14.520 --> 0:19:17.200
<v Speaker 2>Your brain takes what it needs and it discards everything else.

0:19:17.520 --> 0:19:20.400
<v Speaker 2>It doesn't care about the font, if it's handwritten or tight,

0:19:21.119 --> 0:19:23.560
<v Speaker 2>the color, none of that matters. It just goes straight

0:19:23.600 --> 0:19:24.240
<v Speaker 2>to processing.

0:19:24.480 --> 0:19:28.000
<v Speaker 1>So once you've taken in c at there's actually two

0:19:28.119 --> 0:19:31.160
<v Speaker 1>routes that the brain can take to process that information.

0:19:31.359 --> 0:19:33.639
<v Speaker 3>So the first route we call the phonological route.

0:19:33.800 --> 0:19:37.119
<v Speaker 2>Phonological is sounding it out. You're using your memory, but

0:19:37.200 --> 0:19:39.480
<v Speaker 2>you're trying to remember the sounds of each letter. So

0:19:39.800 --> 0:19:44.000
<v Speaker 2>C is A T to cat cat.

0:19:44.040 --> 0:19:46.439
<v Speaker 3>And then we go into our long term memory, and

0:19:46.480 --> 0:19:48.800
<v Speaker 3>that long term memory is for the sounds of words.

0:19:49.160 --> 0:19:51.359
<v Speaker 3>So then we're searching. We're saying, okay, have I heard

0:19:51.480 --> 0:19:55.320
<v Speaker 3>that sound cat? And then you say, oh yeah, I

0:19:55.359 --> 0:19:57.520
<v Speaker 3>have that story in my long term memory. And then

0:19:57.560 --> 0:20:00.240
<v Speaker 3>I say, oh yeah, cat, it's an animal, it's feeling,

0:20:00.359 --> 0:20:02.680
<v Speaker 3>it's a pet. And that's how we identify the word

0:20:02.880 --> 0:20:05.879
<v Speaker 3>through a phonological route. But we have another route, and

0:20:05.920 --> 0:20:07.280
<v Speaker 3>it's an orthographic route.

0:20:07.600 --> 0:20:11.280
<v Speaker 2>Orthographic is when I see these string of letters, I

0:20:11.359 --> 0:20:14.359
<v Speaker 2>remember they mean a thing. So it's the string of

0:20:14.440 --> 0:20:17.439
<v Speaker 2>letters and remembering the meaning. No sound is associated with this.

0:20:17.480 --> 0:20:19.000
<v Speaker 2>You're skipping the sound all together.

0:20:19.119 --> 0:20:22.120
<v Speaker 3>What it does. It says I have this abstract representation

0:20:22.359 --> 0:20:25.320
<v Speaker 3>that the letters are C, A, and T, and then

0:20:25.359 --> 0:20:27.919
<v Speaker 3>we go into our long term memory, not for the sound,

0:20:28.440 --> 0:20:31.080
<v Speaker 3>but just have I seen this string of letters in

0:20:31.119 --> 0:20:33.320
<v Speaker 3>this order? And then I say, oh yes, When I

0:20:33.320 --> 0:20:35.800
<v Speaker 3>see that string of letters, it means a fee line,

0:20:35.880 --> 0:20:38.479
<v Speaker 3>a small animal, a pet, all of that. So what

0:20:38.520 --> 0:20:40.760
<v Speaker 3>we do is we always do that when we see

0:20:40.760 --> 0:20:43.080
<v Speaker 3>any word, we try in both ways to figure out

0:20:43.080 --> 0:20:45.840
<v Speaker 3>that word. We try to sound it out basically, and

0:20:45.880 --> 0:20:47.760
<v Speaker 3>we just try to find a memory for that string.

0:20:47.920 --> 0:20:50.560
<v Speaker 1>So it's like you see the letters c at and

0:20:50.600 --> 0:20:52.879
<v Speaker 1>then they shoot off the gun, and it's like whoever

0:20:52.920 --> 0:20:55.720
<v Speaker 1>gets there first is the winner. Even as an adult,

0:20:55.760 --> 0:20:57.359
<v Speaker 1>when you get to a word that you don't know.

0:20:57.680 --> 0:21:00.800
<v Speaker 2>That's so funny. I don't feel the orthological as much.

0:21:01.119 --> 0:21:04.520
<v Speaker 2>I do recognize when I shift back to phonological absolutely,

0:21:04.560 --> 0:21:07.240
<v Speaker 2>And sometimes there's a little trick where I do a

0:21:07.240 --> 0:21:09.400
<v Speaker 2>blend of both. You know, when we see a new

0:21:09.400 --> 0:21:12.919
<v Speaker 2>word in science or medicine and probably engineering too, we

0:21:13.040 --> 0:21:16.119
<v Speaker 2>have some tricks from root words that we've learned Latin

0:21:16.200 --> 0:21:18.240
<v Speaker 2>or Greek that help us kind of make sense of

0:21:18.280 --> 0:21:20.679
<v Speaker 2>what a word might mean. And those things aren't related

0:21:20.680 --> 0:21:22.959
<v Speaker 2>to sound. It is when I see this string of letters,

0:21:23.240 --> 0:21:26.359
<v Speaker 2>like even phonological pho in, I know that is sound

0:21:26.560 --> 0:21:29.760
<v Speaker 2>right or ortho oh r thho, I know that is

0:21:29.920 --> 0:21:33.480
<v Speaker 2>correct or straight right. And immediately when I brought up orthological,

0:21:33.520 --> 0:21:38.840
<v Speaker 2>you said orthodontis orthopedic, these brains are amazing bruh, honestly,

0:21:39.000 --> 0:21:41.720
<v Speaker 2>Or do you remember that meme where they say Cambridge

0:21:41.760 --> 0:21:45.520
<v Speaker 2>University scientists have figured out even when letters are jumbled

0:21:45.520 --> 0:21:47.480
<v Speaker 2>in between, as long as you can see the first

0:21:47.600 --> 0:21:50.760
<v Speaker 2>letter in the last letter, you can understand this passage.

0:21:50.800 --> 0:21:52.040
<v Speaker 2>Do you remember that? Yes?

0:21:52.160 --> 0:21:55.040
<v Speaker 1>I remember it, and I remember being like, oh my gosh,

0:21:55.240 --> 0:21:57.760
<v Speaker 1>look how advanced my brain is. I don't even need

0:21:57.840 --> 0:22:01.240
<v Speaker 1>these letters to be in order. Your girls smart and

0:22:01.320 --> 0:22:05.879
<v Speaker 1>doctor Wiley definitely just made me feel.

0:22:07.200 --> 0:22:07.560
<v Speaker 2>Duped.

0:22:07.760 --> 0:22:11.280
<v Speaker 3>What happened in that thing is that they were really

0:22:11.320 --> 0:22:14.560
<v Speaker 3>careful about how they jumbled the words. So there are

0:22:14.600 --> 0:22:18.120
<v Speaker 3>some words where it's true that if you switch around

0:22:18.119 --> 0:22:20.400
<v Speaker 3>the letters you still know what that is. So say,

0:22:20.440 --> 0:22:25.320
<v Speaker 3>we're like judge j u dge. If you see ju

0:22:25.480 --> 0:22:28.800
<v Speaker 3>gde right, if it looks like jug d you know

0:22:28.880 --> 0:22:31.680
<v Speaker 3>that that's judge, because there's nothing else that looks like that.

0:22:31.920 --> 0:22:33.639
<v Speaker 3>So they're careful that they only use words like that.

0:22:33.720 --> 0:22:36.359
<v Speaker 3>And I think we're like calm. If you switch the

0:22:36.400 --> 0:22:38.800
<v Speaker 3>A and the L and calm, you get clam and

0:22:38.840 --> 0:22:42.119
<v Speaker 3>now it's a different word. So we actually can't just

0:22:42.240 --> 0:22:43.359
<v Speaker 3>jumble letters around.

0:22:43.640 --> 0:22:47.560
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, So in that fake study that they put out.

0:22:47.800 --> 0:22:51.159
<v Speaker 1>They were very intentional about the words that they chose,

0:22:51.440 --> 0:22:53.560
<v Speaker 1>and they had us all out here thinking that our

0:22:53.600 --> 0:22:56.159
<v Speaker 1>brains worked a certain way that they don't.

0:22:56.520 --> 0:22:59.080
<v Speaker 2>Doctor Wylie tells us, we're not really good at knowing

0:22:59.160 --> 0:23:01.520
<v Speaker 2>exactly the order of letters when we're looking at them.

0:23:01.840 --> 0:23:05.480
<v Speaker 2>So there's a question of what we actually know when

0:23:05.520 --> 0:23:07.439
<v Speaker 2>we figure out what a word is, and when you

0:23:07.600 --> 0:23:10.359
<v Speaker 2>feel like you know it, what concrete things do you

0:23:10.480 --> 0:23:13.480
<v Speaker 2>know about it? And I think that's what scientists are

0:23:13.520 --> 0:23:14.560
<v Speaker 2>still trying to figure out.

0:23:14.840 --> 0:23:17.720
<v Speaker 1>So when we see a word and that gun goes

0:23:17.720 --> 0:23:20.320
<v Speaker 1>off in our brain, and our brain starts shooting off

0:23:20.359 --> 0:23:25.520
<v Speaker 1>phonological and orthological, those two routes, and whoever wins wins.

0:23:25.840 --> 0:23:27.960
<v Speaker 1>But where are they racing too?

0:23:28.359 --> 0:23:30.840
<v Speaker 3>So there's this part of the brain that's called it's

0:23:30.880 --> 0:23:33.639
<v Speaker 3>called several things, so it's been called the brain's letterbox

0:23:34.000 --> 0:23:36.840
<v Speaker 3>or the visual word form area. It's typically in the

0:23:36.920 --> 0:23:39.800
<v Speaker 3>left hemisphere and a part of the temporal lobe called

0:23:39.840 --> 0:23:41.040
<v Speaker 3>the fusiform gyros.

0:23:41.200 --> 0:23:42.840
<v Speaker 2>And you have to remember that the brain is split

0:23:42.880 --> 0:23:45.520
<v Speaker 2>into two hemispheres, kind of left and right, and the

0:23:45.560 --> 0:23:47.080
<v Speaker 2>fusiform gyros is on both.

0:23:47.200 --> 0:23:51.119
<v Speaker 3>So the fusiform gyros in the right hemisphere, so the

0:23:51.119 --> 0:23:55.680
<v Speaker 3>homologous part, the same part across the hemisphere is specialized

0:23:55.880 --> 0:23:59.560
<v Speaker 3>for face processing. It's so it's called the fusiform face

0:23:59.600 --> 0:24:01.800
<v Speaker 3>area in the right hemisphere, and then we have the

0:24:01.880 --> 0:24:04.200
<v Speaker 3>visual word form area and the left hemisphere.

0:24:04.560 --> 0:24:08.160
<v Speaker 2>And we see that the brain changes as children begin

0:24:08.240 --> 0:24:09.080
<v Speaker 2>to learn to read.

0:24:09.280 --> 0:24:13.520
<v Speaker 3>When you're first showing them letters, it's very bilateral, so

0:24:13.560 --> 0:24:15.880
<v Speaker 3>you'll see particular amounts of activity in both the left

0:24:15.880 --> 0:24:18.119
<v Speaker 3>and the right hemispheres when they're looking at words before

0:24:18.119 --> 0:24:20.960
<v Speaker 3>they can really read them. And then as we become

0:24:21.000 --> 0:24:25.679
<v Speaker 3>more expert in reading and writing, that activity shifts further

0:24:25.760 --> 0:24:27.520
<v Speaker 3>to the left. It lateralizes.

0:24:27.920 --> 0:24:33.320
<v Speaker 2>We're using that fusiform gyvis in the left hemisphere to

0:24:33.480 --> 0:24:36.639
<v Speaker 2>recall those words for reading and writing.

0:24:36.880 --> 0:24:42.240
<v Speaker 1>So this sounds like to me that reading is strongly

0:24:42.320 --> 0:24:43.440
<v Speaker 1>tied to memory.

0:24:44.400 --> 0:24:48.560
<v Speaker 2>Yes, memory plays a big role in reading and writing.

0:24:49.160 --> 0:24:51.560
<v Speaker 2>And there's quite a bit happening when we think about

0:24:51.640 --> 0:24:55.080
<v Speaker 2>that race that is basically an obstacle course.

0:24:56.119 --> 0:25:01.399
<v Speaker 1>Honestly, and for some people that obstacle course is instead

0:25:01.400 --> 0:25:04.920
<v Speaker 1>of it just being you know, a little puddle that

0:25:04.960 --> 0:25:07.159
<v Speaker 1>you got to jump over, it's a brick wall that

0:25:07.200 --> 0:25:07.919
<v Speaker 1>you gotta climb.

0:25:08.119 --> 0:25:12.800
<v Speaker 2>Doctor Wilie takes us through two examples, dyslexia and dysgraphia.

0:25:12.960 --> 0:25:16.680
<v Speaker 3>So dyslexia is about reading. Dysgraphia is about the spelling,

0:25:18.080 --> 0:25:20.159
<v Speaker 3>and that can happen developmentally, of course, and we know

0:25:20.280 --> 0:25:22.080
<v Speaker 3>many children have those issues.

0:25:22.280 --> 0:25:26.960
<v Speaker 1>But you can also acquire dyslexia and dysgraphia through traumatic

0:25:27.040 --> 0:25:30.840
<v Speaker 1>brain injury or stroke, and when this happens it's called

0:25:30.960 --> 0:25:31.760
<v Speaker 1>a phasia.

0:25:31.880 --> 0:25:36.920
<v Speaker 2>Dyslexia is about reading, So a person with dyslexia has

0:25:37.000 --> 0:25:41.600
<v Speaker 2>difficulty associating sounds or different speech sounds within a word,

0:25:42.160 --> 0:25:44.479
<v Speaker 2>in learning how the letters represent the sound. So this

0:25:44.520 --> 0:25:45.560
<v Speaker 2>is more phonological.

0:25:45.800 --> 0:25:48.280
<v Speaker 1>So when we think about that that race, when that

0:25:48.359 --> 0:25:52.000
<v Speaker 1>gun goes off their phonological route, there could be some

0:25:52.840 --> 0:25:56.040
<v Speaker 1>obstacles in the way that causes that portion of the

0:25:56.160 --> 0:25:57.680
<v Speaker 1>race to go slower.

0:25:57.440 --> 0:25:59.800
<v Speaker 2>And dysgraphia is more about writing and.

0:25:59.760 --> 0:26:03.920
<v Speaker 3>Spe There's one really cool study that worked with dysgraphic

0:26:04.119 --> 0:26:07.680
<v Speaker 3>patients and what they found is there's patterns of behavior

0:26:08.119 --> 0:26:12.880
<v Speaker 3>when things go wrong. So for example, some individuals their deficit,

0:26:13.160 --> 0:26:16.000
<v Speaker 3>the longer the word is, the more likely they are

0:26:16.000 --> 0:26:18.800
<v Speaker 3>to make an error. And what we know from then

0:26:18.920 --> 0:26:21.600
<v Speaker 3>is that this is a what we call orthographic working

0:26:21.640 --> 0:26:24.000
<v Speaker 3>memory problem. So when you go to spell a word,

0:26:24.119 --> 0:26:26.439
<v Speaker 3>when you go to write a word, you have to

0:26:26.480 --> 0:26:28.760
<v Speaker 3>hold on to those letters in memory. But what can

0:26:28.840 --> 0:26:32.240
<v Speaker 3>happen if you have dysgraphia is that that can really

0:26:32.280 --> 0:26:34.960
<v Speaker 3>break down during this process of reading or during this

0:26:35.000 --> 0:26:38.360
<v Speaker 3>process of trying to spell something, they lose track and

0:26:38.440 --> 0:26:41.040
<v Speaker 3>so they get funny errors, because what might happen is

0:26:41.040 --> 0:26:44.040
<v Speaker 3>they might delete letters, like suddenly it's supposed to be

0:26:44.040 --> 0:26:45.640
<v Speaker 3>eight letters, and then they write down five of them.

0:26:46.160 --> 0:26:50.000
<v Speaker 3>But they may also insert them, and those letters may

0:26:50.000 --> 0:26:53.800
<v Speaker 3>come from things like we call perseverations, so it may

0:26:53.840 --> 0:26:56.920
<v Speaker 3>be the previous word they spelled it's sort of still

0:26:56.960 --> 0:26:59.560
<v Speaker 3>active in their memory. So you can have these deficits

0:26:59.560 --> 0:27:01.760
<v Speaker 3>that are showing you that in this sort of temporary

0:27:01.800 --> 0:27:03.280
<v Speaker 3>storage that can go wrong.

0:27:03.560 --> 0:27:08.280
<v Speaker 2>Sometimes it's a problem of losing your place remembering what

0:27:08.359 --> 0:27:12.879
<v Speaker 2>you've already said versus what comes next. Sometimes it's a

0:27:12.920 --> 0:27:15.360
<v Speaker 2>case of not being able to clear your memory.

0:27:15.240 --> 0:27:17.159
<v Speaker 3>And that's in a different part of the brain than

0:27:17.200 --> 0:27:19.840
<v Speaker 3>the long term storage. So you find other people where

0:27:19.880 --> 0:27:22.840
<v Speaker 3>it doesn't matter whether the words three letters or ten letters.

0:27:22.880 --> 0:27:25.439
<v Speaker 3>That has nothing to do with their deficits. It's all

0:27:25.480 --> 0:27:28.119
<v Speaker 3>about the frequency. What do those people do? And this

0:27:28.200 --> 0:27:32.600
<v Speaker 3>also happens with dyslexia. You're going to rely on that

0:27:32.640 --> 0:27:35.159
<v Speaker 3>phonological route. So if you have a problem with your

0:27:35.200 --> 0:27:37.680
<v Speaker 3>long term memory, you have a hard time just holding

0:27:37.760 --> 0:27:40.200
<v Speaker 3>on to those strings of letters and what you need,

0:27:40.560 --> 0:27:43.120
<v Speaker 3>you're going to rely on that process of sounding words out.

0:27:43.240 --> 0:27:46.080
<v Speaker 2>And we know nothing is as it seems in the

0:27:46.080 --> 0:27:50.240
<v Speaker 2>English language. We got to be easier on ourselves. You know,

0:27:50.960 --> 0:27:52.760
<v Speaker 2>if we're all out here trying to spill it right,

0:27:52.800 --> 0:27:54.920
<v Speaker 2>get it right, put the punctuation in the right order,

0:27:56.119 --> 0:27:57.920
<v Speaker 2>make sure we say the word right, we retrieve the

0:27:58.040 --> 0:28:01.960
<v Speaker 2>right word. This is almost like a false construct we're

0:28:01.960 --> 0:28:05.240
<v Speaker 2>putting on our minds. We didn't evolve a capacity for this,

0:28:05.359 --> 0:28:08.200
<v Speaker 2>like we're enforcing this. This is why you have to teach.

0:28:08.200 --> 0:28:12.439
<v Speaker 2>It is not innate speaking learning the spoken language that

0:28:12.480 --> 0:28:15.199
<v Speaker 2>happens automatically. You just need to be immersed in spoken

0:28:15.280 --> 0:28:19.879
<v Speaker 2>language written language. Laying amongst pages of text does not

0:28:19.960 --> 0:28:21.680
<v Speaker 2>help you learn to read.

0:28:23.000 --> 0:28:25.119
<v Speaker 1>Can't lay your head on these books and get these words.

0:28:25.200 --> 0:28:28.080
<v Speaker 2>Don't work like that. And so when we really think

0:28:28.119 --> 0:28:30.800
<v Speaker 2>about it, we're forcing our brains to do something that

0:28:30.920 --> 0:28:33.639
<v Speaker 2>is not designed to do. And that's kind of cool,

0:28:34.000 --> 0:28:36.480
<v Speaker 2>but it's also meaning that we got to give these

0:28:36.480 --> 0:28:38.120
<v Speaker 2>brains some room to make some mistakes.

0:28:38.360 --> 0:28:40.719
<v Speaker 3>One of the things that's so cool to think about

0:28:41.040 --> 0:28:44.280
<v Speaker 3>with the written language is we know that evolutionarily, right,

0:28:44.360 --> 0:28:48.520
<v Speaker 3>there's not been time for this to evolved. And one

0:28:48.560 --> 0:28:51.360
<v Speaker 3>of the questions that makes us try to understand is

0:28:51.680 --> 0:28:54.360
<v Speaker 3>how are we able to do something that we know

0:28:54.440 --> 0:28:57.560
<v Speaker 3>we didn't evolve any capacity to do? So we have

0:28:57.600 --> 0:28:59.800
<v Speaker 3>to be using some part of the brain that will

0:28:59.880 --> 0:29:03.040
<v Speaker 3>let us read and write that didn't evolve to do that,

0:29:03.640 --> 0:29:05.800
<v Speaker 3>And so people wonder, well, what does that part of

0:29:05.800 --> 0:29:07.480
<v Speaker 3>the brain do if you don't know how to read

0:29:07.520 --> 0:29:10.240
<v Speaker 3>and write? What would it be doing otherwise? And is

0:29:10.280 --> 0:29:12.680
<v Speaker 3>there something it can no longer do now that you're

0:29:12.760 --> 0:29:15.120
<v Speaker 3>using it for reading and writing? So those, I think

0:29:15.160 --> 0:29:19.200
<v Speaker 3>are really fascinating questions that are very difficult to answer,

0:29:20.000 --> 0:29:21.040
<v Speaker 3>but really important ones.

0:29:21.880 --> 0:29:27.280
<v Speaker 1>Evolutionarily, reading is not critical to survival, and the only

0:29:27.360 --> 0:29:31.560
<v Speaker 1>times that we have evolved as a species is in

0:29:31.720 --> 0:29:35.120
<v Speaker 1>order to survive. So what it takes for us to

0:29:35.320 --> 0:29:37.600
<v Speaker 1>be able to live.

0:29:37.680 --> 0:29:39.840
<v Speaker 2>And not just to live, but to live long enough

0:29:39.880 --> 0:29:40.640
<v Speaker 2>to reproduce?

0:29:41.240 --> 0:29:44.520
<v Speaker 1>Ah okay, because I mean it's true there are people

0:29:44.520 --> 0:29:46.400
<v Speaker 1>who don't know how to read and write and they're

0:29:46.440 --> 0:29:50.120
<v Speaker 1>still able to function in society. We haven't gotten to

0:29:50.160 --> 0:29:55.040
<v Speaker 1>that point evolutionarily where it is absolutely necessary, so then

0:29:55.080 --> 0:30:02.560
<v Speaker 1>we would eventually change our brains to need that ability.

0:30:03.720 --> 0:30:07.080
<v Speaker 2>Compare reading and writing to speaking. So if you think

0:30:07.120 --> 0:30:10.600
<v Speaker 2>about it, we have communication centers in the brain because

0:30:10.600 --> 0:30:13.440
<v Speaker 2>you have to be able to communicate if you're going

0:30:13.480 --> 0:30:18.160
<v Speaker 2>to get to a stage where you're reproducing with another human, right, right,

0:30:18.200 --> 0:30:20.840
<v Speaker 2>and so that can be sign language, that can be

0:30:21.440 --> 0:30:25.200
<v Speaker 2>multiple ways of communication. But we have evolved the communication

0:30:25.320 --> 0:30:27.920
<v Speaker 2>center because it's been necessary for our survival. Even when

0:30:27.960 --> 0:30:30.960
<v Speaker 2>we think about gathering and living in groups, which we

0:30:31.040 --> 0:30:34.520
<v Speaker 2>know early on in the evolutionary process humans began to do.

0:30:34.760 --> 0:30:38.040
<v Speaker 1>But that's not true for reading and writing.

0:30:38.120 --> 0:30:40.640
<v Speaker 2>You can still communicate even if you can't read and write.

0:30:40.760 --> 0:30:43.160
<v Speaker 2>There's no selective pressure on reading and writing.

0:30:43.440 --> 0:30:48.120
<v Speaker 1>Also, the ability to write does not put you at

0:30:48.520 --> 0:30:53.800
<v Speaker 1>a evolutionary advantage. No, not yet, not yet. And I

0:30:53.880 --> 0:31:01.080
<v Speaker 1>feel like my handwriting, but I do feel like my

0:31:01.200 --> 0:31:09.200
<v Speaker 1>handwriting does put me at a social disadvantage currently, and

0:31:09.240 --> 0:31:14.320
<v Speaker 1>so I want to know if there is anything that

0:31:14.360 --> 0:31:18.120
<v Speaker 1>people when they see my handwriting if there's anything that

0:31:18.600 --> 0:31:23.920
<v Speaker 1>people can assume about me, because I think no. But

0:31:24.280 --> 0:31:27.719
<v Speaker 1>we ask doctor Wiley if there was any information that

0:31:27.800 --> 0:31:31.960
<v Speaker 1>you could discern from someone's handwriting.

0:31:32.120 --> 0:31:36.880
<v Speaker 3>It definitely tells you something. So here's one thing what

0:31:37.000 --> 0:31:39.880
<v Speaker 3>I know about that, and like how people vary. So

0:31:40.920 --> 0:31:44.440
<v Speaker 3>one thing we if there's some research on, is the

0:31:44.520 --> 0:31:48.360
<v Speaker 3>fact that so people will typically tend to write letters

0:31:48.360 --> 0:31:51.400
<v Speaker 3>more or less the same, but there is a lot

0:31:51.440 --> 0:31:55.280
<v Speaker 3>of variability there and some of it is what we

0:31:55.320 --> 0:31:58.320
<v Speaker 3>call individual differences, and some of it is more cultural.

0:31:58.360 --> 0:32:01.600
<v Speaker 3>So for example, exit and other parts of the world,

0:32:01.880 --> 0:32:05.400
<v Speaker 3>like in Britain, So you probably do one of the

0:32:05.560 --> 0:32:08.040
<v Speaker 3>diagonal lines and then you probably cross it. Right, would

0:32:08.080 --> 0:32:09.800
<v Speaker 3>you believe that there are people who do it as

0:32:10.200 --> 0:32:12.760
<v Speaker 3>like a greater than sign and then a less than

0:32:12.840 --> 0:32:14.600
<v Speaker 3>sign because there are.

0:32:14.720 --> 0:32:16.880
<v Speaker 2>No no news. Yes, how are you going to make

0:32:16.880 --> 0:32:20.280
<v Speaker 2>sure those things touch just at the right place? That's crazy.

0:32:20.960 --> 0:32:23.760
<v Speaker 1>I was glad to hear that. Doctor Wilie said that

0:32:23.960 --> 0:32:26.760
<v Speaker 1>really the only thing that you can really take away

0:32:26.760 --> 0:32:31.160
<v Speaker 1>from somebody's handwriting might be just where they grew up,

0:32:31.440 --> 0:32:34.960
<v Speaker 1>Like it's just a geographic thing. Like in this area

0:32:35.000 --> 0:32:38.479
<v Speaker 1>of the world, folks write certain letters. This way, and

0:32:38.600 --> 0:32:40.960
<v Speaker 1>there's really nothing else you can you can get from that.

0:32:41.000 --> 0:32:44.440
<v Speaker 1>You can't assume anything about their personality, So that that

0:32:44.520 --> 0:32:46.600
<v Speaker 1>kind of makes me feel a little bit better about

0:32:46.640 --> 0:32:48.000
<v Speaker 1>my thick letters.

0:32:48.240 --> 0:32:50.520
<v Speaker 2>Does this mean you'll share your handwriting with all of

0:32:50.520 --> 0:32:51.160
<v Speaker 2>our listeners?

0:32:51.960 --> 0:32:55.040
<v Speaker 1>Oh, man, I see out of feeling you were gonna

0:32:55.080 --> 0:32:58.800
<v Speaker 1>do this, I will do it. If Zakiya does it.

0:32:58.880 --> 0:33:02.640
<v Speaker 1>If you put up your handwriting, I will also put

0:33:02.720 --> 0:33:03.080
<v Speaker 1>up mine.

0:33:03.280 --> 0:33:03.720
<v Speaker 2>I'm gang.

0:33:03.840 --> 0:33:08.040
<v Speaker 1>We'll post on our Instagram our writing samples, yes, and

0:33:08.320 --> 0:33:09.320
<v Speaker 1>our comments will be.

0:33:09.240 --> 0:33:15.760
<v Speaker 2>Closed to shade. Okay, you know, I feel like there

0:33:15.760 --> 0:33:19.520
<v Speaker 2>are a thousand questions we could ask, and doctor Wilie

0:33:19.600 --> 0:33:23.160
<v Speaker 2>really got us together so we could understand just how

0:33:23.200 --> 0:33:27.760
<v Speaker 2>complex written language is. There's honestly no limit to where

0:33:27.920 --> 0:33:31.560
<v Speaker 2>written language has influence. And that's what I learned from

0:33:31.640 --> 0:33:35.440
<v Speaker 2>doctor Willie answering all of our questions, is that it's

0:33:35.800 --> 0:33:38.520
<v Speaker 2>way deeper than what we think is deeper than rep

0:33:38.640 --> 0:33:40.600
<v Speaker 2>I remember our first question to him was like, what

0:33:40.640 --> 0:33:43.520
<v Speaker 2>can you tell us about written language? Here's what he said.

0:33:43.680 --> 0:33:45.800
<v Speaker 3>There's a lot going on, so there's a there's a

0:33:45.800 --> 0:33:48.560
<v Speaker 3>lot to unpack. And one of the things that I

0:33:48.640 --> 0:33:50.360
<v Speaker 3>always have to think about when you know, when people

0:33:50.360 --> 0:33:52.560
<v Speaker 3>want to talk about things like this is you have

0:33:52.600 --> 0:33:54.520
<v Speaker 3>to think kind of about the like the level of

0:33:54.560 --> 0:33:57.680
<v Speaker 3>analysis that you're interested in, you know, even if you

0:33:57.760 --> 0:33:59.440
<v Speaker 3>just want to talk about the brain. So what are

0:33:59.440 --> 0:34:03.120
<v Speaker 3>the neurals substrates that support reading and writing? It really

0:34:03.160 --> 0:34:05.760
<v Speaker 3>depends like, well, what do you mean when you mean writing?

0:34:05.920 --> 0:34:08.400
<v Speaker 3>Do you mean the actual process of using your hand,

0:34:08.640 --> 0:34:11.840
<v Speaker 3>you know, to produce letters on a page, or do

0:34:11.920 --> 0:34:15.440
<v Speaker 3>you mean spelling, which for psychologists we usually actually mean spelling. Right,

0:34:15.520 --> 0:34:18.680
<v Speaker 3>So spelling traditionally, you know, you do that by writing

0:34:18.719 --> 0:34:20.600
<v Speaker 3>by hand, but now most of us are doing it

0:34:20.640 --> 0:34:24.120
<v Speaker 3>by typing. And we also have oral spelling, right, which

0:34:24.120 --> 0:34:25.480
<v Speaker 3>we still do when someone says, how do you spell

0:34:25.480 --> 0:34:26.719
<v Speaker 3>your name? I have to do this all the time, right,

0:34:26.800 --> 0:34:29.480
<v Speaker 3>I say W I L E Y. So those are

0:34:29.520 --> 0:34:32.960
<v Speaker 3>we talked about the modality of these things, and what's

0:34:33.040 --> 0:34:37.279
<v Speaker 3>so cool about written language is that it actually has

0:34:37.320 --> 0:34:47.279
<v Speaker 3>representations in all these different modalities.

0:34:52.840 --> 0:34:55.040
<v Speaker 2>That's it for Lab thirty, but we have so much

0:34:55.080 --> 0:34:58.000
<v Speaker 2>more for you to dig into on our website. Go

0:34:58.120 --> 0:35:00.000
<v Speaker 2>to Dope Labs podcasts.

0:35:01.200 --> 0:35:03.000
<v Speaker 1>On our website, you can find a cheat sheet for

0:35:03.040 --> 0:35:06.120
<v Speaker 1>today's episode, along with a ton of other links and

0:35:06.160 --> 0:35:08.480
<v Speaker 1>resources in our show notes, and.

0:35:08.480 --> 0:35:10.480
<v Speaker 2>If you want to stay in the know with Dope Labs,

0:35:10.520 --> 0:35:12.759
<v Speaker 2>don't forget to sign up for our newsletter too. Here

0:35:12.800 --> 0:35:15.080
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0:35:14.800 --> 0:35:18.439
<v Speaker 1>Special Thanks to our guest expert, doctor Robert Wiley, visit

0:35:18.480 --> 0:35:21.640
<v Speaker 1>his blog at writing Brain dot blog. You can find

0:35:21.680 --> 0:35:23.640
<v Speaker 1>out more about his work in our show notes.

0:35:24.680 --> 0:35:27.319
<v Speaker 2>Also, we love hearing from you. What did you think

0:35:27.320 --> 0:35:30.240
<v Speaker 2>about today's lab? What are your ideas for future labs?

0:35:30.600 --> 0:35:33.759
<v Speaker 2>Our number is two zero two five six seven seven

0:35:33.880 --> 0:35:36.520
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0:35:36.560 --> 0:35:39.080
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0:35:38.840 --> 0:35:42.160
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0:35:42.600 --> 0:35:46.240
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0:35:45.800 --> 0:35:48.200
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0:35:53.280 --> 0:35:55.600
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0:35:55.480 --> 0:35:59.520
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0:35:59.560 --> 0:36:02.120
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0:36:02.239 --> 0:36:04.839
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0:36:04.880 --> 0:36:07.799
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0:36:07.920 --> 0:36:12.799
<v Speaker 2>show Dia and Zakiah Wattley, you know something that I

0:36:12.880 --> 0:36:15.920
<v Speaker 2>realized I haven't used in a while, But you know

0:36:16.040 --> 0:36:18.360
<v Speaker 2>I Message has that feature where when you turn the

0:36:18.360 --> 0:36:22.680
<v Speaker 2>phone to the side, you can actually write with your finger.

0:36:23.640 --> 0:36:23.960
<v Speaker 3>Yes.

0:36:25.000 --> 0:36:27.759
<v Speaker 1>Well, the thing is is that it never knows what

0:36:27.800 --> 0:36:32.680
<v Speaker 1>I'm writing, So I guess these letters just too voluptuous.