1 00:00:01,360 --> 00:00:04,280 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff You Missed in History Class, a production 2 00:00:04,400 --> 00:00:13,960 Speaker 1: of iHeartRadio. Hello and welcome to the podcast. I'm Holly 3 00:00:14,000 --> 00:00:17,840 Speaker 1: Frye and I'm Tracy V. Wilson. I don't know how 4 00:00:17,880 --> 00:00:21,000 Speaker 1: today's topic got on my list. Yeah, I asked you 5 00:00:21,040 --> 00:00:23,040 Speaker 1: this and you were like, I don't know, I don't know. 6 00:00:23,120 --> 00:00:25,000 Speaker 1: I don't know how it did. And I will confess 7 00:00:25,040 --> 00:00:26,880 Speaker 1: to you. It's a bear. Like it was a bear 8 00:00:26,920 --> 00:00:30,200 Speaker 1: to research, it's a bear to sort out all the 9 00:00:30,240 --> 00:00:34,760 Speaker 1: stuff because it's a lot of like proto England things 10 00:00:34,840 --> 00:00:37,760 Speaker 1: going on where stuff goes by seven different names yep. 11 00:00:38,200 --> 00:00:40,040 Speaker 1: So you've got to try to pick one and run 12 00:00:40,080 --> 00:00:43,640 Speaker 1: with it and hope that you've chosen correctly. It's like 13 00:00:43,640 --> 00:00:49,040 Speaker 1: the cup of a carpenter in history form by. Yeah. 14 00:00:49,080 --> 00:00:52,120 Speaker 1: But we're talking about the Battle of Brunnenburgh and it's 15 00:00:52,680 --> 00:00:54,840 Speaker 1: first of all, it's an old English poem that appears 16 00:00:54,880 --> 00:00:57,800 Speaker 1: in the Anglo Saxon Chronicle, but that poem tells the 17 00:00:57,840 --> 00:01:00,400 Speaker 1: story of an actual battle that took place in nine 18 00:01:00,440 --> 00:01:03,280 Speaker 1: thirty seven. It is often referred to as the Battle 19 00:01:03,280 --> 00:01:07,200 Speaker 1: that made England. There are so many questions about this battle, 20 00:01:07,240 --> 00:01:10,560 Speaker 1: including how it played out and where it took place, 21 00:01:11,240 --> 00:01:14,720 Speaker 1: those questions and the debates about theories to answer them 22 00:01:14,720 --> 00:01:17,640 Speaker 1: have become their own interesting story. We're going to talk 23 00:01:17,640 --> 00:01:21,840 Speaker 1: about that near the end of the episode. Uh, it 24 00:01:21,959 --> 00:01:24,120 Speaker 1: is quite fascinating. We'll talk a little bit too, and 25 00:01:24,160 --> 00:01:27,720 Speaker 1: behind the scenes about the claims that this one was 26 00:01:27,760 --> 00:01:32,120 Speaker 1: forgotten and what that really means. But we're going to 27 00:01:32,200 --> 00:01:36,840 Speaker 1: tackle the Battle of Brunnenburgh and hopefully get most of 28 00:01:36,880 --> 00:01:43,520 Speaker 1: the details right. When the Battle of Brunnenburgh took place, 29 00:01:43,680 --> 00:01:47,160 Speaker 1: there were multiple groups jockeying for control of what is 30 00:01:47,240 --> 00:01:52,840 Speaker 1: now northern England, with multiple different kings involved. And then 31 00:01:52,920 --> 00:01:55,920 Speaker 1: this is further complicated by the fact that within these 32 00:01:56,000 --> 00:02:00,400 Speaker 1: groups were subgroups made up of alliances as people tried 33 00:02:00,480 --> 00:02:05,840 Speaker 1: to strengthen their forces. Even who these subgroups are also 34 00:02:06,040 --> 00:02:09,880 Speaker 1: complicated because we have the Anglo Saxons. Of course, that 35 00:02:10,040 --> 00:02:12,480 Speaker 1: is why the whole thing is related and the Anglo 36 00:02:12,520 --> 00:02:17,560 Speaker 1: Saxon Chronicle. Just that term though, has its own problem. Yeah, 37 00:02:18,120 --> 00:02:22,160 Speaker 1: the term Anglo Saxon can incorporate a lot of different 38 00:02:22,240 --> 00:02:28,040 Speaker 1: Germanic peoples that all came to Britain. This was at 39 00:02:28,080 --> 00:02:30,960 Speaker 1: a time that just a group of cultures, we're all 40 00:02:30,960 --> 00:02:35,040 Speaker 1: operating under one umbrella and one ruler, and then there 41 00:02:35,080 --> 00:02:37,280 Speaker 1: was all just a whole bunch of other people who 42 00:02:37,360 --> 00:02:41,200 Speaker 1: were united against the Anglo Saxons. There's a lot of 43 00:02:41,400 --> 00:02:43,760 Speaker 1: history that leads up to this battle. We're going to 44 00:02:43,840 --> 00:02:47,760 Speaker 1: start centuries earlier to try to give a broad overview 45 00:02:47,840 --> 00:02:50,840 Speaker 1: of how things progressed. This is kind of the same 46 00:02:50,919 --> 00:02:53,440 Speaker 1: thing that I ran into with Eustace the Monk, where 47 00:02:53,440 --> 00:02:55,680 Speaker 1: I Keith needed to go, needed to go one step 48 00:02:55,720 --> 00:02:58,239 Speaker 1: earlier and earlier to get a full sense of how 49 00:02:58,280 --> 00:03:01,480 Speaker 1: things developed. Yeah, and this is obviously going to be 50 00:03:01,520 --> 00:03:04,040 Speaker 1: a very what I like to call a quick and 51 00:03:04,120 --> 00:03:08,840 Speaker 1: dirty version of this history. So prior to the fifth century, 52 00:03:09,000 --> 00:03:12,399 Speaker 1: there were Roman forces controlling Britain, although there were non 53 00:03:12,520 --> 00:03:15,800 Speaker 1: Roman people who lived there. Those are typically called the Gaels, Picts, 54 00:03:15,880 --> 00:03:18,799 Speaker 1: and Britons. But the Romans left in the early four 55 00:03:18,880 --> 00:03:22,400 Speaker 1: hundreds and that created a power vacuum that other groups 56 00:03:22,560 --> 00:03:27,560 Speaker 1: rushed in to fill, often through violent conquest. So the Angles, 57 00:03:27,680 --> 00:03:30,440 Speaker 1: Jutes and Saxons were the major players in this move 58 00:03:30,520 --> 00:03:34,240 Speaker 1: westward from the European continent to gain a foothold in 59 00:03:34,280 --> 00:03:38,119 Speaker 1: the area of the British Isles. This resulted in multiple 60 00:03:38,200 --> 00:03:42,760 Speaker 1: kingdoms being established on the island of Great Britain, Wessex 61 00:03:42,880 --> 00:03:45,560 Speaker 1: in the south, Mercia in the central part of the 62 00:03:45,560 --> 00:03:49,240 Speaker 1: island called the Midlands, East Anglia to the east, and 63 00:03:49,480 --> 00:03:53,200 Speaker 1: Northumbria to the north of Mercia. This was really not 64 00:03:53,280 --> 00:03:56,360 Speaker 1: a peaceful arrangement, and the borders of all these kingdoms 65 00:03:56,360 --> 00:03:59,800 Speaker 1: were frequently in a state of conflict, particularly the border 66 00:03:59,880 --> 00:04:04,880 Speaker 1: that separated Mercia from Northumbria. In Northumbria was York, which 67 00:04:05,040 --> 00:04:08,240 Speaker 1: was considered a key location for any power that wanted 68 00:04:08,280 --> 00:04:11,440 Speaker 1: to control the northern part of the island. By the 69 00:04:11,480 --> 00:04:15,320 Speaker 1: eighth and ninth centuries, there were even more groups arriving 70 00:04:15,360 --> 00:04:19,400 Speaker 1: in Britain hoping to capitalize on the available resources there 71 00:04:19,839 --> 00:04:24,960 Speaker 1: and claim land for themselves. And all of these disparate 72 00:04:25,000 --> 00:04:28,400 Speaker 1: groups were not only divided by their desires for power 73 00:04:28,440 --> 00:04:32,000 Speaker 1: and wealth, there was also a spiritual ideology split among 74 00:04:32,040 --> 00:04:35,880 Speaker 1: them that made any efforts at international relations really fraught 75 00:04:35,920 --> 00:04:40,160 Speaker 1: by judgment. So, while the Saxons were largely Christian by 76 00:04:40,160 --> 00:04:42,880 Speaker 1: this point, some of the cultures in play were pagan 77 00:04:43,320 --> 00:04:47,159 Speaker 1: and the Saxons had come to view Paganism as backwards 78 00:04:47,200 --> 00:04:51,240 Speaker 1: and kind of a primitive way of life. Initially, all 79 00:04:51,279 --> 00:04:54,400 Speaker 1: of this bad relationship went very badly for the Saxons 80 00:04:54,480 --> 00:04:57,040 Speaker 1: and their lands and their numbers were diminished under the 81 00:04:57,120 --> 00:05:01,440 Speaker 1: leadership of King Alfred the Great, and then as Danish 82 00:05:01,480 --> 00:05:05,240 Speaker 1: forces advanced on Alfred and the Saxons, the Saxon footprint 83 00:05:05,279 --> 00:05:08,520 Speaker 1: grew quite small as they receded into the west, with 84 00:05:08,600 --> 00:05:14,000 Speaker 1: only Wessex remaining. But then by the late ninth century, 85 00:05:14,040 --> 00:05:17,680 Speaker 1: Alfred was able to kind of put together an army 86 00:05:17,720 --> 00:05:20,640 Speaker 1: and push back a little bit when he made some groundback. 87 00:05:21,240 --> 00:05:24,480 Speaker 1: Alfred was also pretty good at establishing ally ships and 88 00:05:24,560 --> 00:05:29,120 Speaker 1: managing diplomatic efforts. He understood he did not necessarily have 89 00:05:29,240 --> 00:05:33,560 Speaker 1: the manpower or the foothold, so while he was not 90 00:05:33,800 --> 00:05:36,520 Speaker 1: able to regain all of the Saxon holdings he had 91 00:05:36,560 --> 00:05:39,400 Speaker 1: once had, he did manage to bring a degree of 92 00:05:39,440 --> 00:05:43,920 Speaker 1: stability to the area before his death in eight ninety nine. Alfred, 93 00:05:43,960 --> 00:05:45,880 Speaker 1: by the way, is pretty interesting. He might be an 94 00:05:45,880 --> 00:05:49,240 Speaker 1: episode on his own at some point, but germane to 95 00:05:49,320 --> 00:05:52,240 Speaker 1: this story. Alfred's son, Edward the Elder, was next on 96 00:05:52,279 --> 00:05:55,520 Speaker 1: the throne and he ruled until nine twenty four. He 97 00:05:55,680 --> 00:05:59,240 Speaker 1: was able to further expand the Saxon lands again, and 98 00:05:59,279 --> 00:06:03,320 Speaker 1: there was amidst all of this definitely a generational familial 99 00:06:03,360 --> 00:06:07,080 Speaker 1: gold to get all of the Saxon kingdoms together united 100 00:06:07,200 --> 00:06:10,560 Speaker 1: under one king who would be a descendant of Alfred. 101 00:06:11,320 --> 00:06:15,200 Speaker 1: As the Saxons were gaining ground, though in the eight hundreds, 102 00:06:15,240 --> 00:06:19,520 Speaker 1: there were also Norse invaders taking coastal lands in northern 103 00:06:19,560 --> 00:06:23,920 Speaker 1: Britain and Ireland. Those territories would come under the rule 104 00:06:23,960 --> 00:06:28,400 Speaker 1: of the Earls of Northumberland, Norse earls of Viking descent. 105 00:06:29,360 --> 00:06:31,719 Speaker 1: By the time of the battle we're talking about today, 106 00:06:31,960 --> 00:06:36,760 Speaker 1: they were ruled by an Leaf Guthrison. Scotlands, which at 107 00:06:36,760 --> 00:06:38,919 Speaker 1: the time was known as the Kingdom of Alba, was 108 00:06:39,040 --> 00:06:42,800 Speaker 1: also consolidating its power as the various groups there had 109 00:06:42,839 --> 00:06:47,799 Speaker 1: come together for their mutual benefit. King Constantine the Second 110 00:06:47,960 --> 00:06:52,480 Speaker 1: was ruler of Scotland and Strathclyde, which that just south 111 00:06:52,560 --> 00:06:57,120 Speaker 1: of Scotland in the Lowlands, was ruled by Owen. The 112 00:06:57,160 --> 00:06:59,880 Speaker 1: boundaries of all of these kingdoms and the fifes within them, 113 00:07:00,080 --> 00:07:02,480 Speaker 1: as well as the Anglo Saxon Lands were just in 114 00:07:02,520 --> 00:07:07,719 Speaker 1: a state of almost continuous flux. Everybody wanted to become 115 00:07:07,920 --> 00:07:11,520 Speaker 1: the dominant power. Yeah, there was just constant pushing of 116 00:07:11,600 --> 00:07:15,920 Speaker 1: boundaries literally of like, but if I just take over 117 00:07:16,040 --> 00:07:18,680 Speaker 1: some more of this land, I will expand my power. 118 00:07:19,960 --> 00:07:23,640 Speaker 1: So Ethelstan of Wessex, who was the grandson of Alfred, 119 00:07:24,040 --> 00:07:27,320 Speaker 1: ascended to the Anglo Saxon throne in nine twenty five, 120 00:07:27,480 --> 00:07:31,720 Speaker 1: becoming ruler of Wessex, Mercia and East Anglia. He was 121 00:07:31,760 --> 00:07:34,280 Speaker 1: born sometime in the eight nineties, and he had been 122 00:07:34,360 --> 00:07:37,760 Speaker 1: raised in Mercia by his aunt ethel Fled. She had 123 00:07:37,760 --> 00:07:40,160 Speaker 1: the title of Lady of the Mercians, and she had 124 00:07:40,240 --> 00:07:42,840 Speaker 1: ruled there and was a very active participant in the 125 00:07:42,880 --> 00:07:46,040 Speaker 1: fighting to gain and retain land and power. Sometimes she 126 00:07:46,120 --> 00:07:48,960 Speaker 1: and Edward are talked about almost as like a duo 127 00:07:49,520 --> 00:07:53,320 Speaker 1: at this time, her brother Edward being the person on 128 00:07:53,360 --> 00:07:56,160 Speaker 1: the throne after Alfred. So all of this is to 129 00:07:56,200 --> 00:07:58,239 Speaker 1: say it was not as though Ethelstan had been raised 130 00:07:58,280 --> 00:08:01,760 Speaker 1: away from the persistent conflict that just automatically came with 131 00:08:02,160 --> 00:08:05,800 Speaker 1: being part of the ruling family. Ethel Fled, his aunt, 132 00:08:05,800 --> 00:08:09,160 Speaker 1: who raised him, died in nine eighteen, after Ethelstan had 133 00:08:09,160 --> 00:08:12,160 Speaker 1: reached adulthood. By the time he became king at the 134 00:08:12,200 --> 00:08:16,080 Speaker 1: age of thirty, Ethelstan was keenly aware that he had 135 00:08:16,080 --> 00:08:18,840 Speaker 1: to be firm in that role to deal with the 136 00:08:18,960 --> 00:08:22,920 Speaker 1: constant challengers to his power from both without and within. 137 00:08:23,800 --> 00:08:27,240 Speaker 1: At one point, claims that he was an illegitimate claimant 138 00:08:27,320 --> 00:08:30,600 Speaker 1: to the throne led to an unsuccessful plot by another 139 00:08:30,760 --> 00:08:34,880 Speaker 1: noble to try to blind him. Within his kingdom, though 140 00:08:34,960 --> 00:08:38,280 Speaker 1: he appears to have been a pretty even handed ruler. 141 00:08:38,480 --> 00:08:41,880 Speaker 1: He made just laws. For example, they were intended to 142 00:08:41,920 --> 00:08:46,560 Speaker 1: provide material care for the poor, to handle juveniles involved 143 00:08:46,559 --> 00:08:49,920 Speaker 1: in crimes in ways that recognized their youth, and didn't 144 00:08:49,920 --> 00:08:53,440 Speaker 1: treat them as adults when they were being sentenced. Although 145 00:08:53,440 --> 00:08:56,800 Speaker 1: he had detractors in the corridors of power in the 146 00:08:56,840 --> 00:09:00,280 Speaker 1: first decade of his rule, he won the loyalty of 147 00:09:00,320 --> 00:09:05,160 Speaker 1: the people, and early in his reign, Ethelstan invaded York, 148 00:09:05,240 --> 00:09:07,960 Speaker 1: which was held by Vikings at the time, and this 149 00:09:08,120 --> 00:09:10,920 Speaker 1: was to prevent the Vikings from moving any farther into 150 00:09:11,000 --> 00:09:14,760 Speaker 1: Anglo Saxon territory, but it also sent a very clear 151 00:09:14,840 --> 00:09:18,439 Speaker 1: message that Ethelstan was ready, willing and able to engage 152 00:09:18,440 --> 00:09:22,960 Speaker 1: in military conflict. To protect and expand his kingdom, he 153 00:09:23,080 --> 00:09:26,440 Speaker 1: further consolidated the groups that had been united under Alfred 154 00:09:26,480 --> 00:09:30,080 Speaker 1: and Edward, developing the Kingdom of Angleland. And to make 155 00:09:30,120 --> 00:09:32,480 Speaker 1: all of this work, he had all of the leaders 156 00:09:32,520 --> 00:09:35,800 Speaker 1: of the smaller kingdoms and fifes under him swear their 157 00:09:35,840 --> 00:09:39,360 Speaker 1: loyalty to him on paper. Coming up, we'll talk about 158 00:09:39,400 --> 00:09:43,280 Speaker 1: all the suspicion and intrigue that ultimately led to the 159 00:09:43,320 --> 00:09:46,560 Speaker 1: Battle of Brennenborough for us who will pause, though for 160 00:09:46,600 --> 00:09:59,600 Speaker 1: a sponsor break. The entirety of the British isles during 161 00:09:59,640 --> 00:10:03,520 Speaker 1: this time has been described as pretty messy by various historians, 162 00:10:04,040 --> 00:10:08,320 Speaker 1: and that's accurate. There were so many men and various 163 00:10:09,200 --> 00:10:13,599 Speaker 1: icons of power angling for position. Each island was fractured 164 00:10:13,640 --> 00:10:17,400 Speaker 1: by various factions in some way, and Ethelstan was pretty 165 00:10:17,440 --> 00:10:20,720 Speaker 1: open about wanting to unite all of these varying kingdoms 166 00:10:20,840 --> 00:10:24,280 Speaker 1: of Britain under his rule. So the other leaders who 167 00:10:24,360 --> 00:10:27,360 Speaker 1: were in the picture always suspected that he might invade, 168 00:10:27,840 --> 00:10:31,080 Speaker 1: even if there were agreements or tradees in place, and 169 00:10:31,120 --> 00:10:34,480 Speaker 1: that made them reluctant to abide by any such agreements. 170 00:10:34,720 --> 00:10:39,600 Speaker 1: And that's kind of how things next escalated. Ethelstan invaded 171 00:10:39,640 --> 00:10:43,520 Speaker 1: Scotland and Strathclyde in nine thirty four, following a broken 172 00:10:43,640 --> 00:10:46,200 Speaker 1: pledge made by the rulers of those countries to be 173 00:10:46,280 --> 00:10:52,240 Speaker 1: loyal to Ethelstan and not befriend the Norsemen. Probably Again, 174 00:10:52,360 --> 00:10:55,240 Speaker 1: this history is open to a bit of interpretation due 175 00:10:55,240 --> 00:10:59,680 Speaker 1: to the sparse and disparate accounts, but Constantine is said 176 00:10:59,760 --> 00:11:02,560 Speaker 1: in one account to have married his daughter off to 177 00:11:02,640 --> 00:11:06,160 Speaker 1: anlav gulfridson, so if that was the case, there was 178 00:11:06,200 --> 00:11:09,520 Speaker 1: clearly an effort being made to develop a relationship between 179 00:11:09,600 --> 00:11:13,760 Speaker 1: those two kingdoms, and Constantine paid a steep price when 180 00:11:13,760 --> 00:11:16,679 Speaker 1: it came to angering the Anglo Saxons with this move. 181 00:11:17,440 --> 00:11:21,880 Speaker 1: The year after Ethelstan launched this invasion, Constantine io ended 182 00:11:21,960 --> 00:11:26,200 Speaker 1: up swearing allegiance to Ethelstan, as did Owen of Strathclyde, 183 00:11:26,240 --> 00:11:30,760 Speaker 1: having both surrendered to the Saxon forces. There is another 184 00:11:30,840 --> 00:11:34,439 Speaker 1: angle on this that really shows what a tangled situation 185 00:11:34,640 --> 00:11:38,800 Speaker 1: was happening. At the very beginning of Ethelstan's reign, he 186 00:11:39,040 --> 00:11:43,760 Speaker 1: had married his sister off to an Irish Norse king, Cythric, 187 00:11:44,160 --> 00:11:46,880 Speaker 1: trying to work out his own agreement, but he was 188 00:11:46,960 --> 00:11:50,000 Speaker 1: really not okay with other people trying to do the 189 00:11:50,040 --> 00:11:53,760 Speaker 1: same thing after he decided the Norse were his enemies. 190 00:11:54,520 --> 00:11:58,640 Speaker 1: This shift happened after Cythric died and Gutfrith of Ivar, 191 00:11:58,800 --> 00:12:04,040 Speaker 1: his brother, took the Northumbrian throne. Ethelstan did not want 192 00:12:04,080 --> 00:12:07,240 Speaker 1: to make an alliance or an agreement with Guthfrith, although 193 00:12:07,280 --> 00:12:11,480 Speaker 1: the specifics of exactly why are really unknown, so that 194 00:12:11,720 --> 00:12:18,200 Speaker 1: then transferred onto his successor, on Guthhferson. All this does 195 00:12:18,559 --> 00:12:21,920 Speaker 1: pretty clearly evidence the fact that Ethelston was making his 196 00:12:22,000 --> 00:12:26,440 Speaker 1: decisions based on what would protect and expand his own kingdom. 197 00:12:26,559 --> 00:12:31,000 Speaker 1: Though so that allegiance with Constantine and Owen that he 198 00:12:31,080 --> 00:12:34,920 Speaker 1: made them swear after he invaded only lasted a couple 199 00:12:34,960 --> 00:12:37,920 Speaker 1: of years because everyone knew that Ethelstan was going to 200 00:12:37,960 --> 00:12:42,600 Speaker 1: be unstoppable if he went unchallenged. So in nine thirty seven, 201 00:12:42,800 --> 00:12:46,680 Speaker 1: Constantine and Owen, who were related, formed an alliance with 202 00:12:46,800 --> 00:12:50,720 Speaker 1: Onlaf Guthferson, who ruled Viking Northumbria and Dublin at the time. 203 00:12:51,240 --> 00:12:53,400 Speaker 1: As an aside, we've been calling him on Lafft, but 204 00:12:53,440 --> 00:12:56,480 Speaker 1: you will sometimes see his first name listed as Oloff 205 00:12:56,559 --> 00:12:59,480 Speaker 1: instead of Onlaft just if you are looking online. That's 206 00:12:59,520 --> 00:13:03,240 Speaker 1: the same person. And the plan of this little group 207 00:13:03,400 --> 00:13:06,520 Speaker 1: was to take on Ethelstan, regain their power in land, 208 00:13:06,600 --> 00:13:10,280 Speaker 1: and seize parts of England for themselves. They also just 209 00:13:10,360 --> 00:13:13,080 Speaker 1: wanted to stop Ethelstan in his tracks, because they knew 210 00:13:13,120 --> 00:13:15,640 Speaker 1: he was a very real threat to their own kingdoms. 211 00:13:16,120 --> 00:13:19,840 Speaker 1: So at this point all of these different power players 212 00:13:19,880 --> 00:13:23,280 Speaker 1: had formed up into two groups, ethel Stan, leader of 213 00:13:23,320 --> 00:13:26,760 Speaker 1: the Anglo Saxons, and everybody else who wanted to take 214 00:13:26,840 --> 00:13:30,800 Speaker 1: him down. The alert that there was a Viking invasion 215 00:13:30,920 --> 00:13:34,640 Speaker 1: fleet on the Ireland facing coast went out in August 216 00:13:34,640 --> 00:13:38,120 Speaker 1: of nine thirty seven. This is recorded in John of 217 00:13:38,160 --> 00:13:42,400 Speaker 1: Worcester's account Chronicle of Chronicles as quote, I'm luff, the 218 00:13:42,440 --> 00:13:46,320 Speaker 1: Pagan king of the Irish and many other islands, incited 219 00:13:46,440 --> 00:13:49,440 Speaker 1: by his father in law Constantine, king of the Scots, 220 00:13:50,120 --> 00:13:53,040 Speaker 1: entered the mouth of the River Humber with a strong fleet. 221 00:13:53,880 --> 00:13:56,280 Speaker 1: But this account is one that was written in the 222 00:13:56,360 --> 00:14:00,160 Speaker 1: twelfth century, almost two hundred years after this whole thing 223 00:14:00,440 --> 00:14:06,000 Speaker 1: actually happened, so it's not necessarily a reliable source. Yeah, 224 00:14:06,040 --> 00:14:09,120 Speaker 1: there is a lot of discussion among historians of John 225 00:14:09,160 --> 00:14:12,120 Speaker 1: of Wooster's account, which in many cases has kind of 226 00:14:12,120 --> 00:14:15,120 Speaker 1: been taken at face value, but that may have caused 227 00:14:15,120 --> 00:14:19,840 Speaker 1: some confusion to the historical record. But regardless, Ethelstan is 228 00:14:19,840 --> 00:14:22,600 Speaker 1: said to have been a little bit slow in responding 229 00:14:22,880 --> 00:14:25,760 Speaker 1: to this news of an army of newly Allied forces 230 00:14:25,840 --> 00:14:29,440 Speaker 1: landing on Saxon territory, and this has been interpreted in 231 00:14:29,480 --> 00:14:32,840 Speaker 1: a number of different ways. While it obviously would seem 232 00:14:32,920 --> 00:14:35,280 Speaker 1: at first glance like this was just the result of 233 00:14:35,320 --> 00:14:39,000 Speaker 1: being taken unawares by the attack, some historians have put 234 00:14:39,040 --> 00:14:42,280 Speaker 1: forth the idea that this was also a strategic psychological 235 00:14:42,320 --> 00:14:46,000 Speaker 1: move on Ethelstan's part, as he wanted his enemies to 236 00:14:46,080 --> 00:14:49,240 Speaker 1: believe he was taking his time to amass a huge 237 00:14:49,320 --> 00:14:53,000 Speaker 1: response force. And this is where we get to the 238 00:14:53,040 --> 00:14:56,320 Speaker 1: Battle of Brenenborough. Although at the time people just called 239 00:14:56,360 --> 00:14:59,800 Speaker 1: it the Great Battle, the battle itself is believed to 240 00:14:59,840 --> 00:15:02,800 Speaker 1: have happened on a piece of land that the various 241 00:15:02,880 --> 00:15:06,320 Speaker 1: parties all agreed to, but we do not know where 242 00:15:06,320 --> 00:15:08,960 Speaker 1: that piece of land was. There have been a lot 243 00:15:09,000 --> 00:15:12,200 Speaker 1: of theories over the years, and many historians have pieced 244 00:15:12,240 --> 00:15:16,240 Speaker 1: together as much information as they can sifted through clues 245 00:15:16,280 --> 00:15:19,520 Speaker 1: in the epic poem to try to triangulate which places 246 00:15:19,560 --> 00:15:24,000 Speaker 1: seem like the most likely possibilities. This will probably not 247 00:15:24,200 --> 00:15:29,320 Speaker 1: be conclusively known unless some major archaeological find happens, but 248 00:15:29,440 --> 00:15:32,160 Speaker 1: people are compelled to just keep looking because this was 249 00:15:32,200 --> 00:15:34,600 Speaker 1: such a decisive battle, and we will get to some 250 00:15:34,680 --> 00:15:37,600 Speaker 1: of those theories about where it might have been In 251 00:15:37,680 --> 00:15:40,800 Speaker 1: a bit. We also mentioned at the top of the 252 00:15:40,840 --> 00:15:43,640 Speaker 1: show that the very nature of the battle, meaning the 253 00:15:43,680 --> 00:15:46,520 Speaker 1: style in which it was fought, has also been debated 254 00:15:46,560 --> 00:15:49,960 Speaker 1: over the centuries. So one possibility, and kind of the 255 00:15:50,000 --> 00:15:53,680 Speaker 1: most popular, was that they engaged using the shield wall approach, 256 00:15:53,800 --> 00:15:57,040 Speaker 1: meaning that each side would assemble, as the name suggests, 257 00:15:57,120 --> 00:16:00,440 Speaker 1: in a formation so that their shields formed all wall 258 00:16:00,520 --> 00:16:05,040 Speaker 1: that the approaching opponent would have to breach to strike. Meanwhile, 259 00:16:05,440 --> 00:16:08,440 Speaker 1: any attacking side would form a similar wall, but instead 260 00:16:08,440 --> 00:16:11,640 Speaker 1: of holding stationary they would be on the move, pushing forward, 261 00:16:11,960 --> 00:16:14,760 Speaker 1: and then this would become a very close combat situation 262 00:16:15,240 --> 00:16:17,480 Speaker 1: where each side would be trying to find the gaps 263 00:16:17,520 --> 00:16:19,840 Speaker 1: at the bottom or the tops of the shields or 264 00:16:20,200 --> 00:16:23,280 Speaker 1: in between shields as men shifted so that they could 265 00:16:23,280 --> 00:16:27,080 Speaker 1: stab a spear or sword through. It is a lot 266 00:16:27,120 --> 00:16:30,440 Speaker 1: of pushing back and forth. If you ever watch historical 267 00:16:30,480 --> 00:16:34,080 Speaker 1: reenactments of this, to me, it looks utterly miserable and terrifying, 268 00:16:34,600 --> 00:16:37,480 Speaker 1: because it's like being trapped in a space with people 269 00:16:37,520 --> 00:16:39,520 Speaker 1: trying to stab you while you are also trying to 270 00:16:39,560 --> 00:16:42,800 Speaker 1: stab them, and nobody can really see clearly what's going on. 271 00:16:43,600 --> 00:16:46,400 Speaker 1: This is the most commonly accepted take on how this 272 00:16:46,520 --> 00:16:50,440 Speaker 1: conflict was fought, largely because it's how it was described 273 00:16:50,480 --> 00:16:54,320 Speaker 1: in the Anglo Saxon Chronicle. The battle itself is described 274 00:16:54,320 --> 00:16:58,240 Speaker 1: in the first three stanzas of that poem, which are these. 275 00:16:59,040 --> 00:17:03,280 Speaker 1: In this year, King Ethelstan, lord of earls Ring, giver 276 00:17:03,480 --> 00:17:08,000 Speaker 1: of warriors, and his brother as well, Edmund Etheling achieved 277 00:17:08,040 --> 00:17:12,199 Speaker 1: everlasting glory in battle with the edges of Swords near Brunneborough. 278 00:17:12,960 --> 00:17:16,919 Speaker 1: They cleaved the masked shields, hewed the battle wood, the 279 00:17:17,000 --> 00:17:19,680 Speaker 1: relics of hammers of the Heir of Edward, as it 280 00:17:19,840 --> 00:17:24,520 Speaker 1: suited their heritage, so that they often in battle defended 281 00:17:24,720 --> 00:17:29,359 Speaker 1: their lands, treasures and homesteads against every one of the 282 00:17:29,440 --> 00:17:34,840 Speaker 1: hateful foemen were felled the Scottish people, the ship's sailors faded, 283 00:17:34,880 --> 00:17:38,480 Speaker 1: were destroyed. The fields grew slickened with the blood of men. 284 00:17:38,920 --> 00:17:42,399 Speaker 1: After the sun passed upwards over the earth in the 285 00:17:42,440 --> 00:17:45,840 Speaker 1: morning time, the remarkable star, the bright candle of God, 286 00:17:45,920 --> 00:17:50,359 Speaker 1: the eternal Lord, until that noble creation sank to its rest. 287 00:17:51,080 --> 00:17:55,200 Speaker 1: There lay many warriors seized by the spear. The northern 288 00:17:55,280 --> 00:17:59,760 Speaker 1: men over their arrowed shields Likewise, the Scottish also were 289 00:17:59,800 --> 00:18:04,639 Speaker 1: we saddened by war. The West Saxons in their ranks 290 00:18:04,960 --> 00:18:09,360 Speaker 1: rode down the long long day, the hateful people chopping 291 00:18:09,440 --> 00:18:14,160 Speaker 1: down the battle fleers from behind so sorely with sharply 292 00:18:14,280 --> 00:18:19,439 Speaker 1: ground swords. Bless you Tracy for reading that. That is 293 00:18:19,480 --> 00:18:21,680 Speaker 1: only a small part. It is like a seventy three 294 00:18:21,760 --> 00:18:25,000 Speaker 1: line poem, so it's not like massive and epic, but 295 00:18:25,320 --> 00:18:29,439 Speaker 1: it's long, and as described in those stanzas, ethel Stan's 296 00:18:29,480 --> 00:18:33,280 Speaker 1: forces were ultimately successful. They were able to find those 297 00:18:33,320 --> 00:18:36,440 Speaker 1: gaps between shields and had the stamina to keep pushing 298 00:18:36,480 --> 00:18:40,399 Speaker 1: through an entire day of battle. Once the shield wall 299 00:18:40,520 --> 00:18:45,080 Speaker 1: of the invading forces was really breached by Ethelstan's army, Constantine, 300 00:18:45,080 --> 00:18:48,840 Speaker 1: the Second and an Lofts armies scattered in a chaos, 301 00:18:48,920 --> 00:18:53,160 Speaker 1: and their respective leaders returned home. In the end, according 302 00:18:53,160 --> 00:18:56,880 Speaker 1: to the Anglo Saxon Chronicle narrative, five kings, seven earls, 303 00:18:57,160 --> 00:19:00,000 Speaker 1: and an army too large to count had all been killed. 304 00:19:00,920 --> 00:19:05,120 Speaker 1: After the battle, Ethelston proclaimed himself the king of all 305 00:19:05,280 --> 00:19:10,160 Speaker 1: Britain Rex Toodius Britannia, even though this had not resulted 306 00:19:10,200 --> 00:19:14,040 Speaker 1: in all the kingdoms of the British isles being brought together. 307 00:19:14,800 --> 00:19:18,320 Speaker 1: So while by some accounting it was technically a victory 308 00:19:18,400 --> 00:19:22,080 Speaker 1: for Ethelstone, it had also depleted his resources so much 309 00:19:22,119 --> 00:19:24,720 Speaker 1: that he could not even think about expanding the kingdom 310 00:19:24,720 --> 00:19:28,640 Speaker 1: any further. He only lived a couple of more years, though, 311 00:19:28,760 --> 00:19:32,399 Speaker 1: so even if he hadn't exhausted his possibilities in the 312 00:19:32,440 --> 00:19:36,200 Speaker 1: Battle of Brunnenburg, he still probably wouldn't have been able 313 00:19:36,240 --> 00:19:39,520 Speaker 1: to do a whole lot in terms of military rallying 314 00:19:39,560 --> 00:19:43,720 Speaker 1: and land expansion. He died on October twenty seventh, nine 315 00:19:43,880 --> 00:19:47,000 Speaker 1: thirty nine. We're going to pause here to hear from 316 00:19:47,040 --> 00:19:49,720 Speaker 1: the sponsors that keep stuff you missed in history class going, 317 00:19:50,280 --> 00:19:52,119 Speaker 1: and when we come back, we're going to talk about 318 00:19:52,160 --> 00:19:54,800 Speaker 1: all of the efforts to figure out the details and 319 00:19:54,880 --> 00:19:58,720 Speaker 1: location of Brennanburgh and how historians have been in heated 320 00:19:58,760 --> 00:20:12,520 Speaker 1: debate about it for a while. This battle is referenced 321 00:20:12,600 --> 00:20:15,840 Speaker 1: and talked about in dozens of texts from the era 322 00:20:15,960 --> 00:20:19,680 Speaker 1: and after it, but they still give us precious little detail, 323 00:20:20,080 --> 00:20:23,200 Speaker 1: and the details that do exist often contradict one another 324 00:20:23,240 --> 00:20:27,359 Speaker 1: from narrative to narrative. The name Brunnenburgh is even given 325 00:20:27,400 --> 00:20:30,400 Speaker 1: differently in various sources. I think there's something like nine 326 00:20:30,480 --> 00:20:33,800 Speaker 1: different names given for this field of battle, but this 327 00:20:33,880 --> 00:20:36,200 Speaker 1: isn't the only difference in accounts of the battle, which 328 00:20:36,240 --> 00:20:38,359 Speaker 1: is part of why there are a lot of ideas 329 00:20:38,400 --> 00:20:41,760 Speaker 1: about where it happened and how. And while the battle 330 00:20:41,840 --> 00:20:44,040 Speaker 1: is usually noted as having happened in the autumn of 331 00:20:44,119 --> 00:20:47,760 Speaker 1: nine thirty seven, some writings place it in the summer. 332 00:20:47,920 --> 00:20:51,040 Speaker 1: This seems to be because it's like that August, September, 333 00:20:51,080 --> 00:20:54,080 Speaker 1: October time, which you know, even today people will call 334 00:20:54,080 --> 00:20:57,960 Speaker 1: different seasons. There's also the possibility that the shield wall 335 00:20:58,040 --> 00:21:02,000 Speaker 1: form of battlefield engagement may not have been used. It 336 00:21:02,040 --> 00:21:05,320 Speaker 1: may have involved a cavalry charge that's not proven though, 337 00:21:05,600 --> 00:21:08,720 Speaker 1: and it might have involved trench warfare. For example, the 338 00:21:08,800 --> 00:21:12,000 Speaker 1: Norse army is said to have dug trenches and reinforced 339 00:21:12,040 --> 00:21:14,920 Speaker 1: them with timber as part of their preparation for this conflict, 340 00:21:15,119 --> 00:21:17,399 Speaker 1: but that doesn't come up in all of the accounts. 341 00:21:17,640 --> 00:21:21,560 Speaker 1: So many many questions surround this battle, even though it 342 00:21:21,640 --> 00:21:25,840 Speaker 1: is considered incredibly important and decisive in forming the boundaries 343 00:21:25,840 --> 00:21:27,800 Speaker 1: of the countries in the British Isles as we know 344 00:21:27,880 --> 00:21:32,080 Speaker 1: them today. The main thing most people would like to 345 00:21:32,119 --> 00:21:35,359 Speaker 1: know more than how the battle played out is where 346 00:21:35,400 --> 00:21:37,920 Speaker 1: the heck had happened. And there have been more than 347 00:21:38,119 --> 00:21:42,480 Speaker 1: three dozen possible places that have been put forth as possibilities. 348 00:21:43,200 --> 00:21:45,480 Speaker 1: We will not go over all of them, but we 349 00:21:45,520 --> 00:21:48,240 Speaker 1: will talk about a couple of the most popular and 350 00:21:48,600 --> 00:21:52,600 Speaker 1: most hotly debated of them. One of the big problems, 351 00:21:52,640 --> 00:21:55,399 Speaker 1: of course, is that the place names have changed. But 352 00:21:55,520 --> 00:21:59,560 Speaker 1: another problem relates to our recent episode on the Doomsday Book. 353 00:22:00,080 --> 00:22:04,240 Speaker 1: There wasn't a comprehensive survey of England's until William the 354 00:22:04,320 --> 00:22:07,840 Speaker 1: Conqueror had one done and turned it into usable data 355 00:22:07,960 --> 00:22:10,719 Speaker 1: in ten eighty six. That was almost one hundred and 356 00:22:10,720 --> 00:22:15,080 Speaker 1: fifty years after this battle happened. Yeah, places had names, 357 00:22:15,080 --> 00:22:17,879 Speaker 1: and there were some documentations, but in terms of like 358 00:22:18,720 --> 00:22:22,520 Speaker 1: just comprehensively making a list and surveying everything and laying 359 00:22:22,560 --> 00:22:26,160 Speaker 1: it out, there really wasn't. In twenty twenty two, Paul 360 00:22:26,200 --> 00:22:29,440 Speaker 1: Cavill of the University of Nottingham published a paper detailing 361 00:22:29,440 --> 00:22:32,960 Speaker 1: what he called the Yorkshire hypothesis. And this paper is 362 00:22:32,960 --> 00:22:36,520 Speaker 1: actually a rebuttal to the work of Athelstan historian Michael Wood, 363 00:22:36,920 --> 00:22:40,119 Speaker 1: who wrote several articles about it starting in nineteen eighty, 364 00:22:40,359 --> 00:22:44,800 Speaker 1: including the twenty thirteen article Searching for Brennenborough, the Yorkshire 365 00:22:44,840 --> 00:22:47,840 Speaker 1: context of the Great War of nine thirty seven, and 366 00:22:48,000 --> 00:22:50,639 Speaker 1: all of his work. All of Wood's work suggests that 367 00:22:50,800 --> 00:22:56,120 Speaker 1: Yorkshire is the location of Brennenborough. Cavill's paper deconstructs Wood's 368 00:22:56,160 --> 00:22:59,720 Speaker 1: work point by point, noting, quote, the propositions of Woods 369 00:22:59,760 --> 00:23:03,040 Speaker 1: are um are not easily reduced to simple terms that 370 00:23:03,080 --> 00:23:06,520 Speaker 1: can be enumerated, but for clarity that is here attempted. 371 00:23:06,840 --> 00:23:09,200 Speaker 1: So then he goes through all of these, and one 372 00:23:09,240 --> 00:23:12,240 Speaker 1: such point made by Cavill plays out as follows quote. 373 00:23:12,240 --> 00:23:15,280 Speaker 1: The prima facie argument for a Yorkshire site of the 374 00:23:15,320 --> 00:23:18,960 Speaker 1: battle depends very substantially on the account that records the 375 00:23:19,000 --> 00:23:23,359 Speaker 1: Hiberno Norse forces landing in the Humber, originating in John 376 00:23:23,400 --> 00:23:26,760 Speaker 1: of Worcester's Chronicle. There are many reasons why John of 377 00:23:26,800 --> 00:23:30,719 Speaker 1: Worcester's Humber Entry account of Brennanburgh is suspect. It is, 378 00:23:30,760 --> 00:23:34,200 Speaker 1: for example, just one theory of many advanced by early 379 00:23:34,240 --> 00:23:36,959 Speaker 1: writers as to where the battle might have taken place, 380 00:23:37,359 --> 00:23:40,159 Speaker 1: but given much more prominence than any of these, partly 381 00:23:40,200 --> 00:23:43,600 Speaker 1: because John was an influential historian and his work was 382 00:23:43,680 --> 00:23:47,159 Speaker 1: used by others. In addition, it has been shown that 383 00:23:47,200 --> 00:23:50,800 Speaker 1: the formulaic features of John's writing might suggest that he 384 00:23:50,880 --> 00:23:55,240 Speaker 1: resorted to assumption based on parallels elsewhere in his history 385 00:23:55,320 --> 00:23:58,680 Speaker 1: to fill a puzzling gap in his and other's knowledge. 386 00:23:59,240 --> 00:24:01,879 Speaker 1: That's a problem. I mentioned earlier that the John of 387 00:24:01,920 --> 00:24:07,240 Speaker 1: Worcester account a lot of people have run with, and 388 00:24:07,320 --> 00:24:09,240 Speaker 1: now there are a lot more people going yeah, but 389 00:24:09,480 --> 00:24:13,080 Speaker 1: why did we assume he was accurate? Over time, that 390 00:24:13,240 --> 00:24:16,000 Speaker 1: Yorkshire hypothesis, which for a while had a lot of support, 391 00:24:16,280 --> 00:24:20,359 Speaker 1: has kind of fallen out of favor. The most supported 392 00:24:20,440 --> 00:24:24,439 Speaker 1: theory today places the location of the battle on the 393 00:24:24,480 --> 00:24:29,280 Speaker 1: Wirral Peninsula in northwest England, and specifically near the town 394 00:24:29,359 --> 00:24:33,679 Speaker 1: of Bromborough in Cheshire County. This peninsula is bounded by 395 00:24:33,720 --> 00:24:36,800 Speaker 1: the Liverpool Bay to the north, d Estuary on the 396 00:24:36,800 --> 00:24:40,359 Speaker 1: west and Mercy Estuary on the east side. This is 397 00:24:40,400 --> 00:24:43,440 Speaker 1: a location that would have been accessible for troops approaching 398 00:24:43,480 --> 00:24:48,200 Speaker 1: England by sea from both Ireland and Scotland. This location, 399 00:24:48,320 --> 00:24:50,560 Speaker 1: being the likely side of the battle, got some support 400 00:24:50,640 --> 00:24:55,320 Speaker 1: in recent years from archaeological finds of weapon remnants. That 401 00:24:55,400 --> 00:24:59,480 Speaker 1: effort was headed up by a volunteer project called worl Archaeology, 402 00:25:00,440 --> 00:25:04,119 Speaker 1: just collected a wide range of objects on the peninsula 403 00:25:04,160 --> 00:25:07,880 Speaker 1: from a span of time. According to their website, they've 404 00:25:07,880 --> 00:25:13,240 Speaker 1: collected quote artifacts spanning over to millennium, which includes objects 405 00:25:13,280 --> 00:25:16,680 Speaker 1: from the early medieval period and a great deal of iron. 406 00:25:17,840 --> 00:25:21,000 Speaker 1: The Worl Archaeology site says of their project, quote, we 407 00:25:21,160 --> 00:25:25,480 Speaker 1: know that locating ancient battlefields is an extremely challenging enterprise, 408 00:25:25,920 --> 00:25:28,000 Speaker 1: and we also acknowledge that this will be a long 409 00:25:28,080 --> 00:25:30,399 Speaker 1: term endeavor and that it will take many years to 410 00:25:30,480 --> 00:25:34,640 Speaker 1: collect and identify material before any assessment or judgment can 411 00:25:34,680 --> 00:25:37,560 Speaker 1: be made. But we believe that we have all the 412 00:25:37,560 --> 00:25:42,280 Speaker 1: physical and topographical features present, combined with a reliable theoretical 413 00:25:42,320 --> 00:25:46,119 Speaker 1: assessment of the political landscape of the period and logistical 414 00:25:46,160 --> 00:25:49,560 Speaker 1: issues that would have been overcome. This slighte of thinking 415 00:25:49,560 --> 00:25:53,120 Speaker 1: has also been included in the work of historian Michael Livingston, 416 00:25:53,280 --> 00:25:56,679 Speaker 1: who wrote the books The Battle of Brunnenburgh, A Casebook 417 00:25:56,920 --> 00:26:01,040 Speaker 1: and Never Greater Slaughter Brunnenburgh and The Birth of England. 418 00:26:01,520 --> 00:26:05,520 Speaker 1: In both of these books, though through different approaches, Livingston 419 00:26:05,560 --> 00:26:09,560 Speaker 1: makes the case for the world location. Livingston lays out 420 00:26:09,560 --> 00:26:12,600 Speaker 1: details from all of the texts that reference the battle 421 00:26:12,640 --> 00:26:17,159 Speaker 1: to note the parallels in topography to existing places. This 422 00:26:17,280 --> 00:26:19,360 Speaker 1: is something that others have done as well and ended 423 00:26:19,440 --> 00:26:24,159 Speaker 1: up coming to different conclusions as Livingston himself or the 424 00:26:24,200 --> 00:26:28,200 Speaker 1: situation quote, no map, medieval or modern has a place 425 00:26:28,359 --> 00:26:32,479 Speaker 1: clearly marked Brunnenborough on it, much less the other clues 426 00:26:32,560 --> 00:26:35,480 Speaker 1: our sources give us about the battle. As a result, 427 00:26:35,520 --> 00:26:39,560 Speaker 1: people have been free to theorize its location almost anywhere 428 00:26:39,600 --> 00:26:44,440 Speaker 1: in Britain, and they have. Livingston also breaks down how 429 00:26:44,520 --> 00:26:47,679 Speaker 1: the search methods for finding Brennanburgh have kind of fallen 430 00:26:47,720 --> 00:26:50,480 Speaker 1: into two groups. The people who work with a theory 431 00:26:50,560 --> 00:26:53,480 Speaker 1: about what the campaign's target was to determine the most 432 00:26:53,560 --> 00:26:56,840 Speaker 1: likely sight, and then the people who try to work 433 00:26:56,880 --> 00:27:00,119 Speaker 1: from noted place names and narrative accounts to try to 434 00:27:00,160 --> 00:27:02,600 Speaker 1: match them up with existing places or features of the 435 00:27:02,680 --> 00:27:05,480 Speaker 1: landscape and then figure out what the goal of the 436 00:27:05,520 --> 00:27:08,560 Speaker 1: whole thing was. Livingston is very open that he is 437 00:27:08,600 --> 00:27:11,600 Speaker 1: in the latter group, and through his work analyzing the 438 00:27:11,680 --> 00:27:15,000 Speaker 1: various available texts, he comes up with a checklist of 439 00:27:15,040 --> 00:27:18,760 Speaker 1: attributes that the brennan Borough site needed to have, including 440 00:27:18,880 --> 00:27:20,760 Speaker 1: that it needed to be on the west coast of Britain, 441 00:27:21,359 --> 00:27:23,960 Speaker 1: it needed to be near an uncultivated field, and that 442 00:27:24,000 --> 00:27:26,000 Speaker 1: it needed to be near a river. That had a 443 00:27:26,080 --> 00:27:29,880 Speaker 1: water crossing. There are other items on the checklist. One 444 00:27:29,880 --> 00:27:31,879 Speaker 1: of them is that it has to be near some 445 00:27:32,040 --> 00:27:37,240 Speaker 1: sort of hill, because brunn my understanding is is a 446 00:27:37,280 --> 00:27:40,080 Speaker 1: reference usually to a hill, so it's like saying brennan 447 00:27:40,119 --> 00:27:44,520 Speaker 1: Burgh is like saying a borough near a hill. Livingston 448 00:27:44,720 --> 00:27:47,280 Speaker 1: ties all of the items on his checklist back to 449 00:27:47,359 --> 00:27:51,399 Speaker 1: specific details in various narrative accounts, and usually ones that 450 00:27:51,480 --> 00:27:55,200 Speaker 1: can kind of be verified by crossover information from other ones, 451 00:27:55,680 --> 00:27:58,040 Speaker 1: and his conclusion through all of this is that it 452 00:27:58,119 --> 00:28:01,199 Speaker 1: was on the world with the archaeologis finds there as 453 00:28:01,240 --> 00:28:05,040 Speaker 1: supporting evidence. Although these papers we've been talking about that 454 00:28:05,160 --> 00:28:08,520 Speaker 1: hash out the whereabouts of the site are recent, this 455 00:28:08,640 --> 00:28:11,879 Speaker 1: discussion and sometimes argument has been going on for a 456 00:28:12,080 --> 00:28:15,600 Speaker 1: very long time. Though there are often mentions of the 457 00:28:15,640 --> 00:28:19,800 Speaker 1: Battle of Brunnenborough being forgotten for a while. The battle 458 00:28:19,840 --> 00:28:23,440 Speaker 1: of where it happened has been active in newspapers at 459 00:28:23,520 --> 00:28:28,000 Speaker 1: least since the mid eighteen hundreds. One article appearing in 460 00:28:28,040 --> 00:28:31,800 Speaker 1: the Preston Chronicle and Lancashire Advertiser in eighteen fifty six, 461 00:28:31,880 --> 00:28:35,080 Speaker 1: under the heading where was the Battle of Brennenborough fought, 462 00:28:35,440 --> 00:28:37,840 Speaker 1: opens with a plea to the paper's editor by a 463 00:28:37,840 --> 00:28:41,920 Speaker 1: man named Charles Hardwick, and it says, quote, Sir, I 464 00:28:42,120 --> 00:28:45,320 Speaker 1: was somewhat surprised to perceive in your last paper a 465 00:28:45,440 --> 00:28:49,320 Speaker 1: letter signed by a subscriber to the forthcoming History of Preston, 466 00:28:49,760 --> 00:28:52,720 Speaker 1: in which the writer takes exception to my announcement at 467 00:28:52,720 --> 00:28:55,960 Speaker 1: the dinner of the Historic Society that I had concluded, 468 00:28:56,040 --> 00:28:59,520 Speaker 1: after much investigation, that the Battle of Brennenborough might have 469 00:28:59,600 --> 00:29:03,520 Speaker 1: been fought in this neighborhood. As I consider a newspaper 470 00:29:03,640 --> 00:29:06,640 Speaker 1: scarcely the proper medium for the discussion of such a question, 471 00:29:07,120 --> 00:29:10,360 Speaker 1: I should have declined replying to your correspondent, and left 472 00:29:10,400 --> 00:29:14,680 Speaker 1: my evidences to exert what influence they might upon public opinion. 473 00:29:15,320 --> 00:29:18,280 Speaker 1: But that an erroneous impression as to my motive might 474 00:29:18,320 --> 00:29:21,960 Speaker 1: have resulted from such a course, I conceive it would 475 00:29:22,000 --> 00:29:24,840 Speaker 1: be logically sufficient for me to request that my position 476 00:29:24,960 --> 00:29:28,520 Speaker 1: may be judged upon after I have published my reasons. 477 00:29:29,120 --> 00:29:33,280 Speaker 1: I will, however, believing your correspondent's advice to be both 478 00:29:33,440 --> 00:29:38,280 Speaker 1: courteous and sincere for his satisfaction, inform him that I 479 00:29:38,280 --> 00:29:42,000 Speaker 1: am perfectly aware of the difficulties he mentions, and likewise 480 00:29:42,040 --> 00:29:46,040 Speaker 1: of the discrepancies to which he alludes he is wrong, however, 481 00:29:46,320 --> 00:29:49,960 Speaker 1: in supposing the site is at all positively determined upon 482 00:29:50,080 --> 00:29:54,680 Speaker 1: by any authority. The most probable hypothesis at present rests 483 00:29:54,760 --> 00:29:59,440 Speaker 1: upon the merest conjectures, and Bromborough on the World Peninsula 484 00:29:59,600 --> 00:30:03,160 Speaker 1: is not a new contender in these arguments either. In 485 00:30:03,240 --> 00:30:07,840 Speaker 1: nineteen thirty seven, a woman named Anne Anderson, identifying herself 486 00:30:07,880 --> 00:30:11,800 Speaker 1: as the Honorable Secretary of the Bromborough Society, wrote a 487 00:30:11,920 --> 00:30:14,960 Speaker 1: letter to the Liverpool Daily Post that makes it sound 488 00:30:15,040 --> 00:30:17,800 Speaker 1: as though that group was operating on the belief that 489 00:30:17,840 --> 00:30:22,680 Speaker 1: Bromborough was the spot. Anderson has, it appears, written to 490 00:30:22,720 --> 00:30:25,760 Speaker 1: the paper before with this information, and that letter got 491 00:30:25,800 --> 00:30:28,680 Speaker 1: a great deal of response. So Anne writes, quote, it 492 00:30:28,760 --> 00:30:31,320 Speaker 1: may interest your readers to hear my line of argument. 493 00:30:31,920 --> 00:30:35,600 Speaker 1: She makes several points. One that there was probably just 494 00:30:35,760 --> 00:30:39,880 Speaker 1: one Brunnenburgh in nine thirty seven, quote, just as there 495 00:30:40,000 --> 00:30:44,560 Speaker 1: is but one Bromborough today. Two that the d and 496 00:30:44,640 --> 00:30:48,280 Speaker 1: the mercy which bound the world have long been embarkation 497 00:30:48,600 --> 00:30:53,120 Speaker 1: and debarkation points to and from Ireland. Three that there 498 00:30:53,160 --> 00:30:56,240 Speaker 1: is a German map from eighteen eighty that places Brunnenburgh 499 00:30:56,400 --> 00:31:00,560 Speaker 1: on the Wirral right about where Bromborough is and four 500 00:31:01,080 --> 00:31:03,240 Speaker 1: that if you work through the logistics of how an 501 00:31:03,240 --> 00:31:07,400 Speaker 1: invasion from the forces involved had to work, they probably 502 00:31:07,480 --> 00:31:09,920 Speaker 1: met on the Isle of Man and then made their 503 00:31:09,960 --> 00:31:13,800 Speaker 1: way over and that made the Wirral the most logical place. 504 00:31:14,640 --> 00:31:18,040 Speaker 1: Anne Anderson would have likely loved the archaeological work that 505 00:31:18,080 --> 00:31:20,920 Speaker 1: has gone on in recent years in the area, but 506 00:31:21,040 --> 00:31:24,160 Speaker 1: even today there are still plenty of detractors that feel 507 00:31:24,200 --> 00:31:26,800 Speaker 1: that the evidence at hand is not enough for certainty. 508 00:31:27,640 --> 00:31:30,120 Speaker 1: It may remain a history mystery forever, but in the 509 00:31:30,160 --> 00:31:37,440 Speaker 1: meantime people will keep digging, literally and figuratively. I yearn 510 00:31:37,560 --> 00:31:39,840 Speaker 1: for a moment when there's in unearthed where it's like, no, 511 00:31:39,880 --> 00:31:43,480 Speaker 1: it's inscribed and it says is this spear made for 512 00:31:43,520 --> 00:31:49,440 Speaker 1: the Battle of Brennenborough. Yep, that's probably not going to happen, 513 00:31:50,320 --> 00:31:53,080 Speaker 1: But in the meantime I have two pieces of listener mail. 514 00:31:54,040 --> 00:31:56,680 Speaker 1: The first is from our listener Kimberly, and it's about 515 00:31:56,720 --> 00:32:00,120 Speaker 1: one of my favorite topics, waffles. It also features a 516 00:32:00,120 --> 00:32:02,800 Speaker 1: dog that like, I want to steal your dog. It's 517 00:32:02,840 --> 00:32:06,600 Speaker 1: the cutest man a very cute kitty as well. Kimberly writes, 518 00:32:06,640 --> 00:32:08,880 Speaker 1: High Holly and Tracy, I've been thinking about sending this 519 00:32:08,960 --> 00:32:12,040 Speaker 1: email for four years, ever since you first released your 520 00:32:12,080 --> 00:32:14,960 Speaker 1: waffle episode, and since it was just the Saturday Classic, 521 00:32:15,280 --> 00:32:18,040 Speaker 1: it feels like my reminder to finally sit down and write. 522 00:32:18,480 --> 00:32:21,280 Speaker 1: You only just mentioned at the end waffle type foods 523 00:32:21,280 --> 00:32:25,440 Speaker 1: from other countries, including Italian pizzeles. My mom's family is 524 00:32:25,480 --> 00:32:28,520 Speaker 1: of Italian heritage and we make pizzels every year for Christmas, 525 00:32:28,600 --> 00:32:31,560 Speaker 1: along with several other Italian foods. You say in the 526 00:32:31,640 --> 00:32:35,000 Speaker 1: episode that pizzels are deep fried. While I can't speak 527 00:32:35,040 --> 00:32:38,520 Speaker 1: for every recipe from every region of Italy throughout history, 528 00:32:38,920 --> 00:32:41,520 Speaker 1: I have never personally known them to be made that way. 529 00:32:42,000 --> 00:32:44,720 Speaker 1: We use a special iron with long handles that's placed 530 00:32:44,720 --> 00:32:47,640 Speaker 1: over a burner and turned halfway through to cook both sides. 531 00:32:48,000 --> 00:32:50,160 Speaker 1: It sounds a lot like the earlier version of waffle 532 00:32:50,200 --> 00:32:53,200 Speaker 1: irons that you talked about. Actually, the result is a 533 00:32:53,200 --> 00:32:56,520 Speaker 1: patterned wafer type cookie about four to five inches in diameter. 534 00:32:56,920 --> 00:32:58,920 Speaker 1: We always just eat them like a plain cookie, but 535 00:32:58,960 --> 00:33:01,840 Speaker 1: I have seen recipe that roll the pizzel into a 536 00:33:01,880 --> 00:33:04,880 Speaker 1: cone and call for a filling. Baking them is a 537 00:33:04,920 --> 00:33:07,640 Speaker 1: time consuming process as you make one at a time. 538 00:33:08,160 --> 00:33:11,360 Speaker 1: Since multiple family members own pizzel irons. We will try 539 00:33:11,360 --> 00:33:13,120 Speaker 1: to get two of them going at once to speed 540 00:33:13,200 --> 00:33:16,080 Speaker 1: up the process. My aunt bought an electric iron a 541 00:33:16,080 --> 00:33:18,480 Speaker 1: few years ago and absolutely loves it. It makes more 542 00:33:18,520 --> 00:33:21,160 Speaker 1: than one at a time, like a segmented waffle maker, 543 00:33:21,160 --> 00:33:26,360 Speaker 1: so baking does go faster. And then Kimberly shares pictures 544 00:33:26,400 --> 00:33:30,000 Speaker 1: of her pizzel iron and her very cute dog that 545 00:33:30,080 --> 00:33:33,120 Speaker 1: I kind of want to steal, who is named Luna Lovegood, 546 00:33:33,560 --> 00:33:37,360 Speaker 1: and her rescued cat, Nubia Tuesday. The cat, she says, 547 00:33:37,360 --> 00:33:39,120 Speaker 1: wants to be held twenty four to seven, and we 548 00:33:39,160 --> 00:33:41,920 Speaker 1: adopted the dog four years ago to keep her company. 549 00:33:42,280 --> 00:33:44,840 Speaker 1: We specifically chose a dog who had a positive history 550 00:33:44,840 --> 00:33:47,600 Speaker 1: with cats. I had visions of them snuggling up together 551 00:33:47,800 --> 00:33:50,440 Speaker 1: napping in the sun. It turns out the cat hates 552 00:33:50,600 --> 00:33:54,240 Speaker 1: all other animals. Still, after four years, she hisses and 553 00:33:54,280 --> 00:33:56,880 Speaker 1: growls every time she sees the dog. I keep hoping 554 00:33:56,920 --> 00:34:01,200 Speaker 1: for a miraculous attitude change. Thanks for your time, Giberlate listen. 555 00:34:01,760 --> 00:34:03,800 Speaker 1: You can't always predict how animals are going to react 556 00:34:03,800 --> 00:34:06,320 Speaker 1: to other animals, even if they've had a history. You 557 00:34:06,440 --> 00:34:09,640 Speaker 1: just never know. I love it. Thank you for sharing 558 00:34:09,680 --> 00:34:14,400 Speaker 1: your pizzel info. I fully believe that they're made in 559 00:34:14,400 --> 00:34:17,480 Speaker 1: different ways by different people, as are most things. It's 560 00:34:17,560 --> 00:34:21,160 Speaker 1: kind of like the way you can say you make 561 00:34:21,360 --> 00:34:25,720 Speaker 1: you know almost almost anything. Like listen, ask how somebody 562 00:34:25,719 --> 00:34:28,560 Speaker 1: makes barbecue in the US, and you'll get a different 563 00:34:28,560 --> 00:34:31,960 Speaker 1: answer depending on where you're at, and people will be 564 00:34:32,280 --> 00:34:35,040 Speaker 1: angry about it. Some people will be angry. I just 565 00:34:35,080 --> 00:34:37,000 Speaker 1: want to eat all the delicious stuff. How do you 566 00:34:37,040 --> 00:34:41,080 Speaker 1: make it great? Can you make it for me? I 567 00:34:41,120 --> 00:34:43,640 Speaker 1: will say. After we ran that episode as a classic, 568 00:34:43,680 --> 00:34:45,799 Speaker 1: one of my good friends texted me was like, I 569 00:34:45,840 --> 00:34:47,839 Speaker 1: want to have a waffle frolic and I was like, yeah, 570 00:34:47,880 --> 00:34:50,600 Speaker 1: me too, so we'll bring it back. I'm still on it. 571 00:34:50,880 --> 00:34:54,719 Speaker 1: I also wanted to answer our listener, Lance, who wrote 572 00:34:54,800 --> 00:34:56,600 Speaker 1: us a short email to ask if I was going 573 00:34:56,640 --> 00:35:00,960 Speaker 1: to be at dragon Con this year. Lance, Since Holly, 574 00:35:01,040 --> 00:35:03,760 Speaker 1: we plan on going to dragon Con on Sunday, September first. 575 00:35:04,120 --> 00:35:06,000 Speaker 1: We will be going to many of the Star Wars events, 576 00:35:06,000 --> 00:35:07,560 Speaker 1: but if it works out, we would like to see 577 00:35:07,600 --> 00:35:11,239 Speaker 1: you as well, if you are attending and available. I 578 00:35:11,280 --> 00:35:13,480 Speaker 1: didn't see this until after Dragon Con. I kind of 579 00:35:13,520 --> 00:35:15,879 Speaker 1: did a drive by version of dragon Con this year. 580 00:35:16,080 --> 00:35:18,080 Speaker 1: We went for like a couple hours a day, and 581 00:35:18,160 --> 00:35:21,520 Speaker 1: I tended to like hide out in a bar. We 582 00:35:21,560 --> 00:35:23,800 Speaker 1: went to the dealer's room one day, which was almost 583 00:35:23,800 --> 00:35:25,799 Speaker 1: a two hour wait just to get in. Oh, it 584 00:35:25,880 --> 00:35:28,520 Speaker 1: was like yeah, it was it was a little bananas. 585 00:35:28,560 --> 00:35:29,880 Speaker 1: And then we just kind of did that when we 586 00:35:29,880 --> 00:35:33,640 Speaker 1: were very tired. So I just I've been so busy 587 00:35:33,719 --> 00:35:37,080 Speaker 1: lately that I haven't had like the mental or emotional 588 00:35:37,160 --> 00:35:39,799 Speaker 1: energy to go see a lot of people in a 589 00:35:39,960 --> 00:35:43,839 Speaker 1: crowd of people that is a big sea that's very overwhelming. Well, 590 00:35:43,880 --> 00:35:47,879 Speaker 1: and not being local to Atlanta anymore, I am, it's 591 00:35:47,920 --> 00:35:50,600 Speaker 1: not on my list of things to do. But even 592 00:35:50,640 --> 00:35:53,520 Speaker 1: when I was in Atlanta, the amount that Dragon con 593 00:35:53,640 --> 00:35:56,200 Speaker 1: grew between the time that I started going and the 594 00:35:56,280 --> 00:35:58,120 Speaker 1: last time that I went, Like it got to a 595 00:35:58,120 --> 00:36:01,480 Speaker 1: point where I was like this too much. Yeah, and 596 00:36:01,520 --> 00:36:06,960 Speaker 1: we're definitely back to beyond pre COVID levels, Like you know, 597 00:36:07,080 --> 00:36:09,640 Speaker 1: it like many other things, like the travel industry had 598 00:36:09,680 --> 00:36:13,000 Speaker 1: like obviously the gap where nobody was doing that and 599 00:36:13,040 --> 00:36:16,480 Speaker 1: they had canceled it, and then like the post the 600 00:36:16,600 --> 00:36:21,520 Speaker 1: post lockdown surge has just been ceaselessly growing. So it's 601 00:36:21,560 --> 00:36:24,680 Speaker 1: a lot. It's still you know, has fun. I love 602 00:36:24,680 --> 00:36:27,320 Speaker 1: seeing friends and stuff, but I get a little easily 603 00:36:27,360 --> 00:36:31,640 Speaker 1: overwhelmed times. Anyway, if you would like to write to us, 604 00:36:32,400 --> 00:36:34,640 Speaker 1: ask us if we'll be a place, I may or 605 00:36:34,640 --> 00:36:37,360 Speaker 1: may not see it in a timely manner, but you 606 00:36:37,400 --> 00:36:39,760 Speaker 1: could still try. You could do that at History podcast 607 00:36:39,840 --> 00:36:42,960 Speaker 1: at iHeartRadio dot com, and you can also subscribe to 608 00:36:43,000 --> 00:36:45,520 Speaker 1: the show on the iHeartRadio app or anywhere you listen 609 00:36:45,560 --> 00:36:53,400 Speaker 1: to your favorite shows. Stuff you Missed in History Class 610 00:36:53,440 --> 00:36:57,480 Speaker 1: is a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, 611 00:36:57,640 --> 00:37:01,200 Speaker 1: visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen 612 00:37:01,280 --> 00:37:02,240 Speaker 1: to your favorite shows.