Speaker 1: Welcome to How to Money. I'm Joel and I'm Matt,
Speaker 1: and today we're discussing why time is not money with
Speaker 1: money pro Grant Sabatier. Has been a couple of weeks
Speaker 1: and I have you filed your taxes? We did this
Speaker 1: couple of episodes on taxes, and I thought that might
Speaker 1: get you fired up. By the look on your face,
Speaker 1: it looks like you have not bought your deer in
Speaker 1: the headlights when you asked you that. I'm not gonna lie.
Speaker 1: I know I have not found my taxes yet. Confession
Speaker 1: I haven't either. I've actually I started gathering my all
Speaker 1: of my information together because well, actually it took me
Speaker 1: several weeks before I got all my forms in from
Speaker 1: my banks and all that kind of stuff. I think
Speaker 1: some of them waited until the last minute. And so yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm getting my stuff together now. Yeah. Usually I don't
Speaker 1: really start to think about sending all my stuff over
Speaker 1: to my tax repair until like the end of February,
Speaker 1: just so I'm not like anticipating these forms coming in
Speaker 1: that haven't come in yet, and I just I just
Speaker 1: know that takes a little bit of time, so I
Speaker 1: kind of wait for for a minute, and then sending
Speaker 1: all that stuff over and in one fell swoop. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I hear you, man, that's something I'm looking forward to
Speaker 1: crossing off that to do list. But on the subject
Speaker 1: of taxes, it is important for us to mention real
Speaker 1: quick that I just heard an ad the other day
Speaker 1: on the radio, and I heard a tax preparation service
Speaker 1: announced that they were offering advance loans for tax refunds.
Speaker 1: And that's not good news for people. Yeah, those kind
Speaker 1: of have started bad news, man, that's really bad news.
Speaker 1: And that those products have started to kind of become
Speaker 1: popular over the last few years in particular. And there
Speaker 1: might be some tax preparation services that are offering these
Speaker 1: sorts of advanced payment loans with no fees attached. But
Speaker 1: I just want people to be aware that if they
Speaker 1: are trying to get their money day of you know,
Speaker 1: when they go in to see a tax prepair, they
Speaker 1: might be paying really high fees to get their refund
Speaker 1: in advance. And on top of that, the I R
Speaker 1: S is pretty good if you sign up for direct
Speaker 1: depose of your refund, but getting you that money within
Speaker 1: a matter of weeks direct deposit E filing just kind
Speaker 1: of doing the things that are smart and efficient and quick.
Speaker 1: But really, man, I see those advanced loans on your
Speaker 1: tax refund almost like a paid a loan because you're
Speaker 1: going in early. You're you know, getting your refunds sooner,
Speaker 1: and the fees they can be a lot a lot
Speaker 1: of times it's a flat rate, and so you think, Okay,
Speaker 1: this is just how much this product is going to
Speaker 1: cost me. But if you actually do the math and
Speaker 1: see what the percentages, what the fee is compared to
Speaker 1: what your actual refund is, Dude, it's hundreds. It's you know,
Speaker 1: the percentages can be in the hundreds that you're actually paying,
Speaker 1: which is insane. You know, like we get mad hearing
Speaker 1: for credit cards, but dude, if you're over at two
Speaker 1: that you're paying on these loans, that's ridiculous. Yeah, And
Speaker 1: depending on the amount of the refund that you're getting
Speaker 1: back from the federal government, it could be an interest
Speaker 1: rate in that stratosphere and that's just scary. And so
Speaker 1: I just want people to know if you think getting
Speaker 1: your money sooner is the way to go, we'll just
Speaker 1: know that there are major potential fees attached to that,
Speaker 1: and it's much more worth it to hold off and
Speaker 1: wait for that direct deposit to come into you from
Speaker 1: the government, because I remember last year it took less
Speaker 1: than two weeks from most people that I talked to,
Speaker 1: and that should be the same this year hopefully. But
Speaker 1: just do everything you can to avoid those advanced loans
Speaker 1: for your tax refund because it could cost you dearly.
Speaker 1: On that note as well, a listener wrote in and
Speaker 1: informed us both of this guy named Glenn Reeves who
Speaker 1: has been recreating tax forms and Excel for years, for decades,
Speaker 1: And I had never heard of this, but basically he yeah,
Speaker 1: he recreates the actual government tax form in Excel, even
Speaker 1: with the colors and everything, and it's a duplicate essentially
Speaker 1: of the tax form that you would go and pick
Speaker 1: up and mail off. But if you've always wanted just
Speaker 1: to sit there on your computer because you're an Excel
Speaker 1: nerd like I am, to be able to just punch
Speaker 1: those numbers directly into Excel and then print that out
Speaker 1: from your computer and mail it off, that sounds freaking awesome.
Speaker 1: I've never heard of it. This guy just does this
Speaker 1: out of generosity, kind of an outflowing from his heart.
Speaker 1: He does accept donations, though, so if you wanted to
Speaker 1: tip them. You can do that, but I thought that
Speaker 1: was super cool, and I wanted to thank listener Matt
Speaker 1: Kay for writing in and giving us a scoop, and
Speaker 1: we'll post a link to that in the show notes
Speaker 1: for this episode on our website how to Money dot com. Matt,
Speaker 1: I'm not really into excel the way you are. I love,
Speaker 1: but I'm glad. I'm glad that it's excited. You did
Speaker 1: be so excited. Did you see my response? Uh? Yeah,
Speaker 1: lots lots of exclamation points. I was gonna say lots
Speaker 1: of exclamation points. Maybe a couple of emoji's, I don't know.
Speaker 1: By the way, So we're about to tell everyone the
Speaker 1: beer that we're drinking on the show. But in the
Speaker 1: spirit of beer, I wanted to mention a story that
Speaker 1: I saw recently about a beer company trying to do
Speaker 1: something about the student loan debt crisis in the United States.
Speaker 1: And it turns out the beer company Natty Light Natty
Speaker 1: Light is too also known as Natural Lights. Yes, I
Speaker 1: guess do people call it that? Anybody call it that?
Speaker 1: That's what it says on the can. So they're doing
Speaker 1: a social media campaign and from now until May eighteen,
Speaker 1: you can post about your inspiration for going to college
Speaker 1: with a couple of hashtags, and you include a green
Speaker 1: dollar sign tab found on the limited edition cans of
Speaker 1: Natty Light right now in your video that you post,
Speaker 1: and you have a chance to to win a bunch
Speaker 1: of money to go towards your student loan debt. I
Speaker 1: love this. It reminds me of like collecting the coke
Speaker 1: tabs or Pepsi tabs as a kid. You feel the
Speaker 1: gallon jug of milk full of coke tabs from from
Speaker 1: the cans and take them in it. I don't not
Speaker 1: supposed to be worth like twenty bucks or something. I
Speaker 1: don't know, but total throwback is what that is. This
Speaker 1: could be worth a whole lot more than that, but
Speaker 1: what you'll have to do, sadly is drink really crummy
Speaker 1: gear in order to get you. So I don't think
Speaker 1: Matt and I'll be participating in this, But way to
Speaker 1: go Natty Light for giving away a million dollars to
Speaker 1: help people pay down their college loans. That's super cool.
Speaker 1: I can't believe you just said way to go Datty Light.
Speaker 1: I know quote right there, last time you'll ever hear
Speaker 1: that on this podcast. So Matt on our show. We
Speaker 1: don't typically drink light beers, but but so today on
Speaker 1: the show, we're drinking something from one of our favorite
Speaker 1: local breweries, Creature Comforts Brewing Company, And this is a
Speaker 1: new beer that they just came out with that I
Speaker 1: picked up at my local bottle shop and I'm excited
Speaker 1: to give a shot the Tritonia Goza with pineapple, lemon
Speaker 1: and corienter. So yeah, I'm so excited. I'm glad you
Speaker 1: picked one of these up. I'm a huge fan of
Speaker 1: pineapple myself, so I think this beer is gonna be
Speaker 1: right up my alley. Man, and you already took a sip.
Speaker 1: What are your thoughts? So if I had to give
Speaker 1: one word to describe that beer fresh, dang, dude, this
Speaker 1: is so good. Okay, my one word will be flavor ice.
Speaker 1: You busted out the hyphen nation last week or a
Speaker 1: couple of weeks ago, and it's my turn hyphenated word
Speaker 1: flavor ice. Man. When you think it can't get any weirder,
Speaker 1: it does. So Matt and I will explain our word
Speaker 1: choice and give you kind of some more notes on
Speaker 1: what we thought about this beer at the end of
Speaker 1: the show. First off, one last thing I gotta say
Speaker 1: about this beer. Matt Creature Comforts, in my mind, has
Speaker 1: some of the best can designs out there period. And
Speaker 1: so if you don't follow us on Instagram, we post
Speaker 1: pictures of all the beers that we drink and you
Speaker 1: can see like the sweet can design for this one,
Speaker 1: and also just kind of some of the random behind
Speaker 1: the scenes stuff that you and I get into. But now, Matt,
Speaker 1: without any further ado, let's get into the subject at hand.
Speaker 1: Time is not money with our money pro for today,
Speaker 1: Grant Sabatier. I am so stoked to have Grant on.
Speaker 1: He is a total stud. Right after college, he was unemployed,
Speaker 1: living at home with his parents. His story right involves
Speaker 1: him only having two dollars and twenty six cents in
Speaker 1: his bank account, which I love. He couldn't afford to
Speaker 1: go to get a Chipotle burrito. Like That's why that
Speaker 1: stands out my mind because I love Chipotle to make
Speaker 1: awesome burritos. To the depths he had sunk. But it's
Speaker 1: just such a compelling story. But from that moment he
Speaker 1: decided that he's going to turn his life around. And
Speaker 1: then in five years he became a millionaire and he
Speaker 1: was financially independent at the age of thirty, and he
Speaker 1: now owns a couple of businesses. He runs the site
Speaker 1: Millennial money dot com and is now releasing a book
Speaker 1: on financial independence and it is called Financial Freedom And
Speaker 1: you know what, This actually releases tomorrow, February five, which
Speaker 1: is super timely, so I'm pumped to have him on.
Speaker 1: And he actually sent us some advanced copies of the
Speaker 1: book that we got to read. And one of the
Speaker 1: one of the things I loved that I connected with
Speaker 1: it was the fact that he's such to hustler. He's
Speaker 1: from the Midwest, so he's got that Midwestern work ethic,
Speaker 1: and he did everything at the beginning when he was
Speaker 1: first during his life around from building websites up to
Speaker 1: like buying and selling mopeds like the little the little
Speaker 1: small engine mopeds you know I'm talking about. Yeah, totally
Speaker 1: super hip. I love him. I had one similar like
Speaker 1: not it was actually more of a scooter. But I
Speaker 1: love the old school mopeds, but they have more issues
Speaker 1: with them, right, the old ones. Yeah, Yeah, it kind
Speaker 1: of takes a special knowledge to kind of know what
Speaker 1: you're looking at. And they got little pedals built into them,
Speaker 1: so they're super cool. Though, Yeah, so I appreciate the
Speaker 1: grants first off, written a book, because I've never written one.
Speaker 1: It seems too hard. I don't know if I'll ever attempted.
Speaker 1: But really, what I love about what Grant's gonna share
Speaker 1: with us is, I mean, how many times have you
Speaker 1: heard the phrase time is money? And I have heard that, right,
Speaker 1: That's a common phrase, and when you've heard it so
Speaker 1: many times, it becomes kind of ingrained into your way
Speaker 1: of thinking. Oh well, yes, of course time and money
Speaker 1: are equivalent. And I love how what Grant is sharing
Speaker 1: with us today is kind of battling that common misconception.
Speaker 1: It's ultimately, really it's it's b s and it's a
Speaker 1: philosophy that's led many people to working for all the
Speaker 1: wrong reasons. And Matt, you and I in episode fifty
Speaker 1: talked about how to cultivate a healthy view of work,
Speaker 1: and so having a holistic view of work is crucial
Speaker 1: in our minds, and equating your time and your money
Speaker 1: as being the same, I mean, that's a that's a
Speaker 1: slippery slope. And so ultimately, I think this episode is
Speaker 1: kind of going to help us figure out how we
Speaker 1: break out of that linear line of thinking to have
Speaker 1: a better overall concept of our time and our money
Speaker 1: and where that line kind of gets divided. And this
Speaker 1: is the third one. This is the third money Pro
Speaker 1: that we've been able to release. So a lot of
Speaker 1: you might be familiar with this format now, but you
Speaker 1: know what, if this is your first one, let me
Speaker 1: explain how it works real quick. The way it works
Speaker 1: is that our money Pro has sent us their five
Speaker 1: minutes of expertise, their knowledge and their passion on this
Speaker 1: topic sort of distilled down into this concentrated segment, and
Speaker 1: we're gonna play that once we come back from the break,
Speaker 1: and right after that, Joel and I are going to
Speaker 1: unpack that and share our thoughts. All right, Matt, So
Speaker 1: without further Ado, I want to hear what Grant has
Speaker 1: to say about white time doesn't equal money. Take it away, Grant.
Speaker 1: Thanks for having me. Guys. One of the biggest things
Speaker 1: that holds people back is that they think that time
Speaker 1: is money. We grow up and we're told that time
Speaker 1: is money and money is time, and we're meant to
Speaker 1: believe that they're equals. But in reality, money is inherently infinite.
Speaker 1: You can always go out and make more money, you
Speaker 1: can never get back this moment. This moment is really
Speaker 1: all there is. You can never get back this time.
Speaker 1: I mean, what would you do if some ninety year
Speaker 1: old rich dude offered you a hundred million dollars to
Speaker 1: trade place with him. You wouldn't do it. Why? Because
Speaker 1: time is more valuable than money. And as long as
Speaker 1: we believe that time is money, we're going to make
Speaker 1: sacrifices and trade much more of our time than we
Speaker 1: need to in order to make money. And yes, both
Speaker 1: money and time are human inventions. They do share a
Speaker 1: number of similarities. But in reality, if you think that
Speaker 1: money is time, it's going to hold you back in
Speaker 1: some way. And in fact, the traditional linear relationship between
Speaker 1: money and time that you think you have to trade
Speaker 1: hours of your life in order to make money only
Speaker 1: holds true up to a certain point in your life.
Speaker 1: And the entire goal of financial independence, the strategy that's
Speaker 1: going to get you there the fastest is disrupting that
Speaker 1: traditional money time linear relationship. And so you know, for example,
Speaker 1: investing more money gives you the opportunity for your money
Speaker 1: to grow, and when you invest your money in something
Speaker 1: you know it requires little, if any of your time.
Speaker 1: Then to make money, you know, Warren Buffett famously makes
Speaker 1: about one point five million dollars per hour even when
Speaker 1: he's sleeping, and I actually make about forty five dollars
Speaker 1: per hour even when I'm sleeping, and I don't have
Speaker 1: to trade any of my time to make that money.
Speaker 1: So really, the central idea that you have to trade
Speaker 1: your time for money is what holds most people back.
Speaker 1: And the simple idea is that you should get your
Speaker 1: money making money so you don't have to trade any
Speaker 1: or very little of your time in order to make it.
Speaker 1: And of course investing is just one example. Another simple
Speaker 1: example is, you know, whenever you launch a business, instead
Speaker 1: of just trading your own time for money, for example,
Speaker 1: driving for Lift or driving for Uber, there's only so
Speaker 1: many hours in the day that you can drive. But
Speaker 1: if you launch your own side hustle, for example a
Speaker 1: dog walking company, uh, and you're no longer limited by
Speaker 1: the hours that you have in the day by hiring
Speaker 1: other people to do the dog walks for you. Because
Speaker 1: if you're always limited by your own time, you know,
Speaker 1: you can't walk dogs for thirty hours a day. But
Speaker 1: if you hire two people to walk dogs for you,
Speaker 1: all of a sudden, you've multiplied the number of hours
Speaker 1: that you can sell, and instead of selling your own time,
Speaker 1: you're brokering other people's time, and you've disrupted that traditional
Speaker 1: money time linear relationship where now you don't have to
Speaker 1: trade your time or more of your time in order
Speaker 1: to make more money. Another piece of the puzzle here
Speaker 1: is that we often think about time very differently in
Speaker 1: the West than they do in the East. We view
Speaker 1: our lives as having a past, present in future, whereas
Speaker 1: in the East it's often viewed time is often viewed
Speaker 1: as more cyclical, and so life comes around and so
Speaker 1: really the important takeaway here is that in the West,
Speaker 1: we always believe that we're not going to have another opportunity,
Speaker 1: and so we spend our lives filling every ten minutes,
Speaker 1: every five minutes with another meeting. We try to stay
Speaker 1: as busy as possible. But the paradoxes and trying to
Speaker 1: stay as busy as possible and squeeze everything out of
Speaker 1: every minute of the day, inherently we're actually sing out
Speaker 1: on life because life often happens in the margins. It
Speaker 1: often happens when you know you don't have anything to do,
Speaker 1: when you simply have time and space with which to exist.
Speaker 1: But we spend so much of our lives in the West,
Speaker 1: in the United States, specifically, trying to fill every minute
Speaker 1: of the day, uh, in order to get the most
Speaker 1: of our lives. But it actually takes away from our
Speaker 1: lives and doesn't allow us to truly live where in
Speaker 1: the East. Uh. Time being cyclical. If you miss an opportunity,
Speaker 1: you believe that it will always come back around. You know,
Speaker 1: there's always another season, there's always another day. And that's
Speaker 1: an important distinction I think to make. And so as
Speaker 1: long as you believe that time is money, it's going
Speaker 1: to hold you back. Time is not money. It's so
Speaker 1: much richer. Uh, it's so much more ethereal. You know.
Speaker 1: Time is like the wind passing, whereas money it's something
Speaker 1: you can fold up and put in your pocket. And
Speaker 1: so don't make the mistake of spending your entire life
Speaker 1: working for a paycheck, trading your time for money, when
Speaker 1: in reality, money is infinite. You can always go out
Speaker 1: and make more money, but you can never get back
Speaker 1: your time. This moment, your time is all there is
Speaker 1: such good truth right there. I'm so glad we've got
Speaker 1: granted on. Let's live into a dude so what he
Speaker 1: just said, right, we're told that money and time are equals,
Speaker 1: but in reality, you can always go out and you
Speaker 1: can always earn more money. You can never get back time. However,
Speaker 1: we're saying this, but it is way easier said than done,
Speaker 1: which is why I'm glad that he gave that example
Speaker 1: about the nine year old dude. You know, if you
Speaker 1: gave you a hundred million dollars, would you trade places
Speaker 1: with them? This is why I love that, right, because
Speaker 1: you hear that and you think, well, of course not,
Speaker 1: like I would never do that. And what that does
Speaker 1: is it drives home the principle that time truly is
Speaker 1: more valuable than money. In our youth, we think that
Speaker 1: I've got more time, and because this is a resource
Speaker 1: that we have, time, we think, oh, well, there's always
Speaker 1: gonna be more time. Oh, I can always do that tomorrow.
Speaker 1: We devalue our time now because we are younger and
Speaker 1: we have what we think at least is the whole
Speaker 1: life in front of us. And by that one example
Speaker 1: right there, it makes me think, no, time really is
Speaker 1: that much more valuable than money. Therefore, the things I
Speaker 1: do now they should reflect that understanding. Yeah, Matt, and
Speaker 1: I feel like another main point that I took away
Speaker 1: from from what Grant had to say was to appreciate
Speaker 1: the journey. And I feel like that example that you
Speaker 1: just referenced actually drives at home too, because if we are,
Speaker 1: you know, in our twenties or thirties or forties, and
Speaker 1: let's say we're only focused on getting to the point
Speaker 1: where we feel like we have enough money, then we're
Speaker 1: gonna be missing all these amazing times along the way,
Speaker 1: the journey that actually makes the destination worthwhile. I don't know,
Speaker 1: I just imagined like a ninety year old Scrooge McDuck
Speaker 1: kind of like sitting there counting his money and he's like,
Speaker 1: I did it. I did it, and then it's like,
Speaker 1: but I lost everything in the process, right, Joel. I
Speaker 1: love that visual, but real quick, I wanted to mention
Speaker 1: that trading our time for money, that is still how
Speaker 1: we live right now, right Like, that's how you and
Speaker 1: I survived, that's how we pay the bills, that's how
Speaker 1: we support our family, and the thing is that we
Speaker 1: just don't want to be doing that for the rest
Speaker 1: of our lives. When you're stuck in that mindset, that's
Speaker 1: when you're constantly on that treadmill, Grant mentioned that there's
Speaker 1: a certain point in life where that's no longer the case,
Speaker 1: and what he's talking about is financial independence, and that's
Speaker 1: what you just alluded to. That's what we're sort of
Speaker 1: saving our money for. That's the point that we're looking
Speaker 1: ahead towards to know that at this point in time
Speaker 1: we will hopefully no longer have to trade our time
Speaker 1: for money like we still might. And we've talked about
Speaker 1: this before in previous episodes. You know, it doesn't mean
Speaker 1: we're gonna retire and kick back and not do any work,
Speaker 1: but to know that we have the option to no
Speaker 1: longer trade our time, our life, energy right like the
Speaker 1: remaining years that we have for money, that's financial independence, man.
Speaker 1: I feel like this topic too, can help people visualize
Speaker 1: their current day job and work a little bit differently,
Speaker 1: and just seeing that time and money are not equivalent
Speaker 1: can help you realize that the hours that you spend
Speaker 1: in the day are more meaningful than you thought. I
Speaker 1: don't know about you, but for me, it just reframed
Speaker 1: things just a little bit. To see my time in
Speaker 1: a in a way that that's a little more meaningful
Speaker 1: than I typically think of it every day. Sometimes it's like, oh,
Speaker 1: we gotta go to work, gotta do this, and oftentimes
Speaker 1: it feels like I'm thinking about my time in accordance
Speaker 1: to what society places on me or what they say
Speaker 1: about my time and why it's valuable. Beginning to hear
Speaker 1: what Grant said, it actually kind of made me take
Speaker 1: my time back into my own hands and say, well,
Speaker 1: what does my time mean to me? Where do I
Speaker 1: like to spend it? And it's just made my time,
Speaker 1: honestly at the dinner table and after dinner and before
Speaker 1: I take my girls to school, like those kind of
Speaker 1: times with them, with my family even just a little
Speaker 1: bit richer, just knowing that my time isn't money. My
Speaker 1: time is mine to enjoy with the people that I
Speaker 1: love and care about, and you know, we talk about
Speaker 1: that on the show, Matt, but this just helped cement
Speaker 1: that for me a little bit more. And it's kind
Speaker 1: of one of those gentle reminders that I need to
Speaker 1: remember that my time is not just equivalent to money,
Speaker 1: and that's just honestly an awful thing that if we
Speaker 1: do think about it that way, and it might be
Speaker 1: subtly in the back of your mind, we have to
Speaker 1: reframe that because that's not an okay way to think
Speaker 1: about your time. It's not equivalent to money. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: so if you do have that mindset, right, if you
Speaker 1: do have the mindset that I have to trade my
Speaker 1: time for money. You know what Grant did mention though,
Speaker 1: is that we can disrupt that mindset. And like you said,
Speaker 1: we can do it by reframing the way we think
Speaker 1: about the time that we do have that we're not working,
Speaker 1: but then also by investing and creating business. And I
Speaker 1: want to just to encourage our listeners to that if
Speaker 1: you've invested anything at all, you have started down the
Speaker 1: path towards financial independence, because that is the goal of
Speaker 1: saving for retirement. You're saving for retirement so that years
Speaker 1: and maybe even decades from now, when it comes time
Speaker 1: for you to retire, that that money is there, and
Speaker 1: that money is going to be there, and you're gonna be,
Speaker 1: you know, earning from that without having to lift a finger.
Speaker 1: And so yeah, I just want that to be an
Speaker 1: encouragement because I think it's easy to hear that, oh, yeah,
Speaker 1: you need to find ways to have passive streams of
Speaker 1: income right now so that you can do the things
Speaker 1: that you need to do without working for your money anymore.
Speaker 1: And it sounds a little defeating, It sounds almost impossible. However,
Speaker 1: even the small steps that you're taking right now, right
Speaker 1: contributing to your four own k, these are all steps
Speaker 1: in the direction of financial independence and just stay the course. Yeah, man,
Speaker 1: And I thought what Grant said about kind of the
Speaker 1: way we view time here in the West versus the
Speaker 1: way they view time in the East was just kind
Speaker 1: of fascinating. And we do really make an attempt to
Speaker 1: fill every minute of the day, and we we stay busy,
Speaker 1: even if that business doesn't necessarily equal productivity or or meaning.
Speaker 1: It reminds me actually of a of an article I
Speaker 1: read a few weeks back, maybe even a month ago,
Speaker 1: and I posted it in our Facebook group, which you
Speaker 1: can find, by the way, if you go to Facebook
Speaker 1: dot com and you type in how the Money. And
Speaker 1: it was an article from The Guardian. It was like
Speaker 1: their long form of Sunday Read, and it was about
Speaker 1: time management. In the article, the the author talked about
Speaker 1: how the there was a guy that gave a talk
Speaker 1: at Google about zero email inbox, zero inbox, and he
Speaker 1: kind of became a celebrity of sorts after that talk
Speaker 1: at Google where everyone just said I need to have
Speaker 1: zero inbox, and I gotta admitted times like I've had
Speaker 1: that desire to have zero inbox, to have this clean
Speaker 1: feeling where I've answered all the emails. But actually, the
Speaker 1: interesting thing about zero inbox, if you're shooting for that,
Speaker 1: which is literally to have all your email emails answered
Speaker 1: at the end of the day, to be back down
Speaker 1: to zero, ultimately it's never ending. When you send more email,
Speaker 1: it begets more email. You reply to people, they reply back,
Speaker 1: and it just becomes so war exactly what I on
Speaker 1: zero inbox and year zero inbox, and it's just sort
Speaker 1: of like a battle until five pm or whenever it
Speaker 1: does that you wanna call quits. Yeah, I know, so
Speaker 1: it it just really does kind of get insane. He
Speaker 1: gets out of hand. And it just made me think
Speaker 1: that working towards this rigorous amount of productivity, ultimately that's
Speaker 1: going to ensure that we miss out on meaningful moments
Speaker 1: in life, striving against something that really doesn't even exist.
Speaker 1: Because what's the ultimate goal of being zero inbox or
Speaker 1: being the most productive person and and and having the
Speaker 1: busiest schedule, is that the mark of success or is
Speaker 1: the mark of success, the fact that we own more
Speaker 1: of our time and we're able to take back some
Speaker 1: of our life. And the only way that we can
Speaker 1: do that, right is by what Grant said, and is
Speaker 1: by creating some of these steady streams of income. And
Speaker 1: I love what you said to Matt. If you've started,
Speaker 1: you're on the path, and what we want to do
Speaker 1: is help you to accelerate that path because it sounds daunting.
Speaker 1: And grant story that we talked about at the very
Speaker 1: beginning of the show, it's impressive, right, It's amazing that
Speaker 1: he went from having not enough money for Chipotle burrito
Speaker 1: and by the way, if he comes into town, I'll
Speaker 1: buy him one, right, But he didn't even have that
Speaker 1: much money and he went to millionaire in four years,
Speaker 1: and that it's that kind of story that I don't
Speaker 1: know about you. I see that headline or I read
Speaker 1: about that, and I'm like, whatever, nobody else can do that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's like a one in a million shot, right for
Speaker 1: that to be you and your story. So you're saying
Speaker 1: there's a chance, right, So it does feel like this
Speaker 1: kind of unattainable goal. And and even saying that about him,
Speaker 1: I feel that right. Viscerally, I feel that reaction that
Speaker 1: that it's a hard thing to achieve, and it is,
Speaker 1: but Grant worked really hard and not only did he
Speaker 1: do that, but he decided to let go of a
Speaker 1: lot of potential pleasure now, a lot of potential consumeristic
Speaker 1: pleasure more than anything now, in order to achieve a
Speaker 1: goal where his money compounds on itself to to pay
Speaker 1: for his living expenses. And that's a really cool goal
Speaker 1: goal to have, you know, we talked about that in
Speaker 1: our episode about financial independence. Is it a good idea
Speaker 1: that that it is a good goal to have, but
Speaker 1: it's at the same time, it's not worth it if
Speaker 1: you have a mindset that says that your time is
Speaker 1: equal to your money, because you don't want to miss
Speaker 1: out on the beautiful moments that are happening in the
Speaker 1: journey right now because you think that there's this pot
Speaker 1: of gold at the end of the rainbow. Because that's
Speaker 1: not the case either. And he also mentioned how like
Speaker 1: in the East, time is more cyclical. I've got less
Speaker 1: experience with that, right, But what I do have experience
Speaker 1: with is going of going to different countries and seeing
Speaker 1: how they view time and how they live as a
Speaker 1: culture and how relaxed they seem, and I think that's
Speaker 1: so important. So much of how we view time in
Speaker 1: the United States is viewed through the filter of time
Speaker 1: egals money. We're all about productivity, we're all about creating
Speaker 1: new stuff, new technologies, advancing things, and I think there's
Speaker 1: a lot to be learned from other countries and how
Speaker 1: they view time and how they relax. Honestly, it's it's
Speaker 1: inspirational and maybe that's part of why we do go
Speaker 1: on vacations is to see how these cultures take it easy.
Speaker 1: You get to Paris in uh gosh, I think August,
Speaker 1: like Kate and I were there like several years ago,
Speaker 1: like the whole city shuts down, like the entire population
Speaker 1: leaves and goes to the coast and just relaxes. And
Speaker 1: if you ever meet in Australian while you're traveling, they
Speaker 1: always they asked, I feel like this always happens. They
Speaker 1: asked me how long I'm traveling for and it's usually
Speaker 1: like a week, like days, yeah, and and they're like, oh,
Speaker 1: we're we're doing like a three month thing. And it's
Speaker 1: it's just like that's how the Australians travel. They're always
Speaker 1: on like a month and a half or longer holiday,
Speaker 1: so much more chill. Yeah, and we're just on these
Speaker 1: ridiculous short term, week long vacations. It sucks, Yeah, but
Speaker 1: I think it's worth challenging ourselves to look at time
Speaker 1: more through that lens of of more, a more relaxed
Speaker 1: view of time. I am half Korean, so I don't know.
Speaker 1: Maybe I expected you to assume that I knew all
Speaker 1: about the cyclical nature of time. Joel, Hey, no assumptions
Speaker 1: over here, Buj Bopp and Kim She you want some
Speaker 1: of that some of that Korean food. Hey, if you're
Speaker 1: making it, I'll eat it. Yeah. So, I think we
Speaker 1: covered a lot of the problem and and a huge
Speaker 1: part of that is your mindset. But let's talk about
Speaker 1: some of the ways to disrupt that way of thinking,
Speaker 1: and we'll get to that right after this break. We're back. Now,
Speaker 1: let's cover some takeaways for our listeners. Then before we
Speaker 1: even start with us, I want to mention that at
Speaker 1: its core, like what Grant's talking about here is he's
Speaker 1: making an argument for financial independence. And if you are
Speaker 1: in the mindset that you have to show up, you
Speaker 1: have to work your hours, and then you receive pay right, like,
Speaker 1: just the traditional model of working, that isn't how financial
Speaker 1: independence works. Yeah, that can be. I think an unending
Speaker 1: cycle and a rut that you get in. And if
Speaker 1: you truly buy into the time equals money mindset, you've
Speaker 1: signed up for a lifetime essentially forty plus years of
Speaker 1: time for money. And I think there's a lot of ways, Matt,
Speaker 1: in which we can cut down on that amount of
Speaker 1: time where we're trading time for money in the here
Speaker 1: and now, but also in the future. And that only
Speaker 1: happens through doing a couple of things, right, Yeah, man,
Speaker 1: that's right. And so the first way is investing, and
Speaker 1: we talk often about investing, investing for your retirements. This
Speaker 1: is something that pretty much anyone can do. You can
Speaker 1: start now, It doesn't take any special skill. And if
Speaker 1: you have already started investing, like we said earlier, you
Speaker 1: are already on your path towards financial independence. But just
Speaker 1: keep it up. Yeah, man, I think if someone is
Speaker 1: listening out there and they are kind of inspired to think, wow, yeah,
Speaker 1: my time it does an equal money, and I don't
Speaker 1: want to be signed up for that life of forty
Speaker 1: plus years, you know, working forty plus hours a week.
Speaker 1: Oftentimes many people working more than that. I know oftentimes
Speaker 1: people working fifty or sixty hours a week, and that
Speaker 1: is in my mind unsustainable, right, that's unsustainable. And one
Speaker 1: of the only ways around that, like you said, is
Speaker 1: is to invest your money. And so, yeah, you can
Speaker 1: go back and listen to multiple episodes that we've recorded.
Speaker 1: One that I can think about the top of my
Speaker 1: head is retirement investing is simpler than you think, and
Speaker 1: I think it's a good goal for someone to maybe
Speaker 1: think about incrementally stepping up how much they're investing. And
Speaker 1: whether you have a four oh one k through work
Speaker 1: and you can go in there today and you can
Speaker 1: bump up your percentage that you're allocating to your four
Speaker 1: ohne k from your paycheck by one percent and then
Speaker 1: maybe do that again a few months from now. Or
Speaker 1: whether you have an I RA that you contribute to
Speaker 1: automatically every month and it gets deducted out of your
Speaker 1: bank account. Let's say it's at fifty bucks right now.
Speaker 1: A month, see if you can up that to seventy five. Hopefully,
Speaker 1: this idea, this realization that your time is not equivalent
Speaker 1: to your money, your time is actually much more valuable,
Speaker 1: helps you to prioritize investing so that you can break
Speaker 1: that cycle and you don't have to keep trading your
Speaker 1: time for money like you might be doing now. And
Speaker 1: the second way that you can disrupt that linear model
Speaker 1: where time equals money, you've got investing, and the second
Speaker 1: is creating a business. You know, it's funny that he
Speaker 1: he gave the example of dog walking, because that is
Speaker 1: an example that we gave on our episode Creating a
Speaker 1: Dope side Hustle. You must listen to the podcast versus
Speaker 1: certain sort of side hustles and jobs right where you're
Speaker 1: say driving for uber or lift. Those are things that
Speaker 1: you can you certainly on the side to create some
Speaker 1: more money, but they're sort of dead end side hustles.
Speaker 1: They're sort of dead end jobs. You want something as
Speaker 1: even unglamorous, maybe as dog walking, because you know what,
Speaker 1: like that's something that you can scale. You can have
Speaker 1: employees and before you know it, you're not walking any dogs.
Speaker 1: You're the one managing the people who are walking the dogs.
Speaker 1: And that is another way that you're able to not
Speaker 1: trade your hours for money. Maybe you are working some,
Speaker 1: but you've decreased the number of hours that you're actually working.
Speaker 1: Think of it as sort of a more efficient use
Speaker 1: of your time, Like you are now the manager and
Speaker 1: as you sort of climbed that mountain, you're spending fewer
Speaker 1: and fewer hours working. So, Matt, I know you're kind
Speaker 1: of doing this at your day job, which is a
Speaker 1: photography business that you started years ago with your wife.
Speaker 1: But to tell us, like, how how have you been
Speaker 1: trying to implement this in your life and how has
Speaker 1: that been working for you? Yeah, I have been doing that.
Speaker 1: It's taken a couple of years to kind of get
Speaker 1: it rolling. And it's hard, I'll be honest, it's hard
Speaker 1: to get out of the mindset of doing the job
Speaker 1: that you've done for almost more than seen years now
Speaker 1: because you're taking on new responsibilities and it's a little
Speaker 1: bit scary. It's less of doing the actual craft, the
Speaker 1: thing that you sort of fell in love with doing initially.
Speaker 1: Right for me, it was that was taking pictures and
Speaker 1: making stuff look pretty. And it's a shift in rolls
Speaker 1: and so on that note, I will say that it's
Speaker 1: it may not be for everybody, because some folks may
Speaker 1: not have the capacity to take on managing people. It's
Speaker 1: a little trickier. It's it's not just doing the job.
Speaker 1: It's working on the job. That's working on the business
Speaker 1: versus working within it. But for me, honestly, wanting to
Speaker 1: spend more time with my family and wanting to do
Speaker 1: this podcast more has spurred me on to spend less
Speaker 1: time shooting. And it's not because I don't enjoy photography
Speaker 1: as much anymore. I still freaking love it. It's what
Speaker 1: makes this so hard. But I'm trying to I've got
Speaker 1: another photographer that shoots a lot with me, and she
Speaker 1: shoots for me as well, and I'm looking to increase that.
Speaker 1: I'm still doing a lot of the business end of things,
Speaker 1: but too in the end produced a number of hours
Speaker 1: that I'm dedicating towards the photography business. That's my goal,
Speaker 1: and honestly, after reading Grant's book, it's kind of gotten
Speaker 1: me fired up to go down that path even harder.
Speaker 1: And again, it's not because I don't enjoy it, but
Speaker 1: it's because there's other awesome things that I'm excited about.
Speaker 1: You need doing this podcast And sorry, my family they
Speaker 1: kind of beat you out. I mean, I don't understand that.
Speaker 1: To be honest, I'm pretty fun to hang out with,
Speaker 1: but yeah, man, I think too. I want to encourage
Speaker 1: people that if this kind of makes sense, if it
Speaker 1: kind of clicks, it can also feel like a daunting
Speaker 1: task to say, Hey, start a business where you can
Speaker 1: eventually see yourself out of it and other people make
Speaker 1: you money or start investing heavily right now, and you
Speaker 1: know you'll be there at some point, yeah something you'll
Speaker 1: be able to kick back and you'll just have all
Speaker 1: this cash flowing in and you won't have to work. Yeah, daunting,
Speaker 1: and uh it sounds a touch unrealistic. But that doesn't
Speaker 1: sound very attainable, doesn't, right. So I want to encourage
Speaker 1: people that I feel like the only way to really
Speaker 1: to really get there, and we talked about this a
Speaker 1: lot on the show through a bunch of individual episodes
Speaker 1: is frugality. Man, Like, I feel like you have to
Speaker 1: start there. There's no way around it. You can grow
Speaker 1: your income, right, but you also have to cut back
Speaker 1: in the areas that don't matter. And I feel like
Speaker 1: that's such an important thing that we have to mention
Speaker 1: even in this episode, is that if you want to
Speaker 1: get to the point where you're not trading time for money,
Speaker 1: if you see that as a path with no real endgame.
Speaker 1: You're right, it doesn't have one. And the only way
Speaker 1: around that is to cut your expenses and then grow
Speaker 1: that gap, that savings gap where you can invest it
Speaker 1: so you can prioritize that that future of not trading
Speaker 1: time for money. So I just want to encourage people
Speaker 1: it's possible. It sounds a little daunting, and and it
Speaker 1: sounds maybe a little high, a little high and lofty
Speaker 1: and and potentially unattainable, but it is attainable, and it
Speaker 1: takes small steps then compounding those steps on top of
Speaker 1: each other, and it all begins with with living a
Speaker 1: more frugal life and cutting back in those areas where
Speaker 1: you can. I love that man, super encouraging, and like
Speaker 1: I wanted to encourage our listeners as well, because yes,
Speaker 1: financial independence, thinking that there's this point in time where
Speaker 1: you'll no longer have to work, I want to challenge
Speaker 1: even that notion right and say that there are varying
Speaker 1: degrees of financial independence. And what I mean by that
Speaker 1: is to consider what financial independence would look like for you,
Speaker 1: like years and years down the road, and find ways
Speaker 1: to start incorporating that into your lifestyle. Now, this is
Speaker 1: something Joel, you and I have talked about before that
Speaker 1: if you are so focused on that end goal that
Speaker 1: you're neglecting your life now, that you're not pursuing your hobbies,
Speaker 1: that you're not fostering and growing relationships with your friends
Speaker 1: and with your family, and you think that at some
Speaker 1: point you're gonna hit this financial independence miracle number and
Speaker 1: that's when you're gonna flip the switch and you're gonna
Speaker 1: rejuvenate those relationships and go on vacation and pick up
Speaker 1: those hobbies just you know, all the fun stuff. Well,
Speaker 1: you know what, life doesn't necessarily work that way and
Speaker 1: people don't work that way, and so finding ways to
Speaker 1: incorporate what it is that you're striving after into your
Speaker 1: life now, I think is crazy important. And for me personally, man,
Speaker 1: I'm almost a little wary of sort of sharing this
Speaker 1: because I feel like you might and maybe our listeners
Speaker 1: might kind of hold me accountable. But after creating the
Speaker 1: personal Mission Statement that we did a couple few weeks
Speaker 1: ago with Scott, what I realized that was key to
Speaker 1: so much of what I was seeking after when it
Speaker 1: comes to financial independence is time with my family, time
Speaker 1: with my kids. And when I'm realizing is that that's
Speaker 1: something I can do now, and that's not something I
Speaker 1: can put off until later. And that's that's one of
Speaker 1: the beasts I had. I guess with the view of
Speaker 1: time is more cyclical, is that that's not something that
Speaker 1: comes back around again. There isn't gonna be that season
Speaker 1: again where my kids are this age, where they're this young,
Speaker 1: and where they are this impressionable. And so for me,
Speaker 1: man I I'm trying to challenge myself this year to
Speaker 1: kick off work like a little bit early every day
Speaker 1: where after we're being the girls home from school. Maybe
Speaker 1: I don't necessarily get back on the computer and go
Speaker 1: back to emails or go back to editing, or go
Speaker 1: back to working on the podcast, but I spend that
Speaker 1: time growing our relationship and doing fun stuff and doing
Speaker 1: the things that they're going to remember, because those are
Speaker 1: the things that I want to do when I retire,
Speaker 1: when I am financially independent, those are the things that
Speaker 1: are going to be important to me. But if I
Speaker 1: don't do any of that now, how am I even
Speaker 1: going to know how to do that later? I feel
Speaker 1: like that can be so countercultural to our sort of
Speaker 1: societal work ethic, where, oh, how dare you find ways
Speaker 1: to be less productive for your company. But at the
Speaker 1: same time, when you've realized what it is that matters
Speaker 1: to you most, right, relationships with friends and family, those
Speaker 1: are things that you've got to do now. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: think we can talk ourselves into putting those kind of
Speaker 1: things off and those decisions to to work less and
Speaker 1: to prioritize other things more, whether it's people, hobbies, community.
Speaker 1: It's really easy just to say I'm gonna get to that.
Speaker 1: I promise that's really important and and at some point
Speaker 1: I'll dedicate the time to it. But really, if your
Speaker 1: time spent doesn't match the values that you say you have,
Speaker 1: I think hopefully this concept of time not equaling money
Speaker 1: can be kind of that spur for you to think
Speaker 1: a little bit more right about how am I prioritizing
Speaker 1: my time now, and how am I prioritizing my investing
Speaker 1: so I can get even closer to achieving that ability
Speaker 1: for my money to work for me, so that I'm
Speaker 1: not necessarily trading my time every day for money, because
Speaker 1: that's a necessity. Right. Yeah, he said that, he said,
Speaker 1: get your money making money, And that's such a freaking
Speaker 1: good quote that I love it. Like you said, if
Speaker 1: you're not spending your time making money. You have to
Speaker 1: decide what are you going to spend your I'm doing
Speaker 1: and to me, like that's the driving force, right if
Speaker 1: you know at some point you might be financially independent,
Speaker 1: You've got to decide what it is that you're going
Speaker 1: to spend your time doing. And those are the things
Speaker 1: you need to start incorporating into your life now. And
Speaker 1: that's what fuels you. It feels me and it answers
Speaker 1: one of the big wise behind why I work. Are
Speaker 1: Matt speaking of what fuels you? You know, it feels
Speaker 1: me beer beer, that's right. So the beer we drank
Speaker 1: while we're doing the show today was Creature Comforts Tritonia Goza.
Speaker 1: It's a nice little German style tart wheat beer that
Speaker 1: features pineapple and lemon. It was so good. Many in general,
Speaker 1: goes as are typically referred to as sort of briany,
Speaker 1: right like that they always sort of had this like
Speaker 1: salty nature to them. Yeah, completely, and this one was
Speaker 1: a fantastic representation. We love pretty much everything that Creature
Speaker 1: Comforts does there Athens, Georgia, where I was recently, so
Speaker 1: Matt though a word I used to describe this beer
Speaker 1: was fresh, and I gotta be honest, fresh this this
Speaker 1: beer tasted super fresh, like I just popped it. All
Speaker 1: the flavors came out on poll and really everything combined
Speaker 1: almost tasted like a lemon meringue pie in a beer can.
Speaker 1: It was so delicious. I'm a huge fan of this one,
Speaker 1: and this is a beer I definitely want to be
Speaker 1: drinking when the summer rolls around. Well, speaking of summer, man,
Speaker 1: I said flavor ice. And I don't know if you know,
Speaker 1: but when do you eat flavor ice in the summer?
Speaker 1: And so I said, flavor it's not because it's syrupy
Speaker 1: and too sweet, right, because it's got the lemon going
Speaker 1: on and it cuts that, which is why it keeps
Speaker 1: it fresh. But it just reminds me of summer. It's
Speaker 1: this light, bright beer. But if I had like a
Speaker 1: pineapple flavor ice that wasn't too sweet with a little
Speaker 1: bit of lemon to cut it, that's man, That's that's
Speaker 1: what I'm enjoying. On the front porch. You're sitting next
Speaker 1: to me drinking that beer. Our kids are out playing
Speaker 1: in the yard. I'm painting the picture for you. You're
Speaker 1: seeing it. I'm just saying it's I just want to say,
Speaker 1: it's a good thing you're not getting paid to professionally
Speaker 1: review beers because I love hearing them. But they're also
Speaker 1: just a little weird too at the same time, which
Speaker 1: I don't know, kind of makes it fun. I guess
Speaker 1: I better make it fun. Well. I mentioned all that
Speaker 1: to say that I freaking love this beer. I agree, man,
Speaker 1: it's delicious, and I'm totally gonna be drinking this this summer,
Speaker 1: assuming that they roll it out this summer. Figures crossed
Speaker 1: on that one, that's for sure, all right, Matt, Let's
Speaker 1: get to our final thoughts on this episode with money
Speaker 1: pro Grants Aboutier. I love the topic Time is not money.
Speaker 1: That's such a great way to think about things. And
Speaker 1: I feel like my favorite takeaway from this is that
Speaker 1: in trying to stay busy, I feel like we're actually
Speaker 1: inherently missing out on life. Life happens in the margins,
Speaker 1: and the more that we cram our schedules full and
Speaker 1: think that our time actually is better spent or most
Speaker 1: equal to making a dollar, that is going to ensure
Speaker 1: that we miss out on the really true, meaningful moments
Speaker 1: in our lives. That's right, man, Time does not equal money.
Speaker 1: So often we are you just used to punching the clock,
Speaker 1: working and getting paid. But there are ways to disrupt
Speaker 1: that linear model, that exchange of you showing up and
Speaker 1: then you getting paid. And you can do that by
Speaker 1: investing and with business entrepreneurship finding ways to make your
Speaker 1: money make money. Ultimately, that is the way for you
Speaker 1: to disrupt that model and to actually be able to
Speaker 1: achieve financial independence. Yeah, Matt, So that begs the question.
Speaker 1: Then if you do get to that point, what what
Speaker 1: are you gonna spend your time doing? Joel good question.
Speaker 1: Man Grant's got this awesome line in his book, and
Speaker 1: I'm gonna read it for us real quick, and he says, quote,
Speaker 1: when you spend almost your entire life working for a paycheck,
Speaker 1: what happens when you break that routine? What happens when
Speaker 1: your identity is so wrapped up in your title and
Speaker 1: job responsibilities? What happens when you're now too tired to
Speaker 1: pursue your dreams or maybe it's been so long that
Speaker 1: you lost your dreams along the way. Those are some
Speaker 1: awesome questions, and those are questions that you have to
Speaker 1: answer yourself as a listener. I'd point you back to
Speaker 1: the episode we did a few weeks ago on creating
Speaker 1: your personal Mission statement with Scott Rickens. That for us, man,
Speaker 1: that was incredibly impactful and helped us to sort of
Speaker 1: see that what we're striving towards isn't the work itself
Speaker 1: and isn't money itself, but there's something beyond that. What
Speaker 1: is the why behind your money? What is the why
Speaker 1: behind your work? And that's the question that grants asking here,
Speaker 1: and that's the question for all of us. Yeah, Matt,
Speaker 1: that's good food for thought. And I feel like any
Speaker 1: time that you hear the phrase from now on that
Speaker 1: time equals money, you will instinctively recognize that that's just
Speaker 1: not true, that your time is just way the heck
Speaker 1: more valuable. All Right, Joel, that's gonna be it for today. Everyone.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for listening to this episode. We'll
Speaker 1: have our show notes up on the website, including the
Speaker 1: link to that Natty Light student loan repayment contest. You
Speaker 1: can find our slite at how some money dot com. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and if you found this show helpful, we love it.
Speaker 1: If you would consider telling a friend about it. We've
Speaker 1: heard from many of our listeners that have started money
Speaker 1: conversations based on this show. That's super exciting for us
Speaker 1: to hear and we would love to see that trend continue.
Speaker 1: So it's always thanks for listening. We're so glad you're
Speaker 1: a part of this show, so Joel. Until next time,
Speaker 1: best Friends Out, Best Friends Out,