WEBVTT - All Broken Up About Facebook

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<v Speaker 1>Welcome to tex Stuff, a production of I Heart Radios,

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<v Speaker 1>How Stuff Works. Hey there, and welcome to tech Stuff.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm your host, Jonathan Strickland. I'm an executive producer with

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<v Speaker 1>How Stuff Works and I heart radio and I love

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<v Speaker 1>all things tech. Kind of boy. I keep on having

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<v Speaker 1>to justify that. But as I record this episode, Facebook

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<v Speaker 1>continues to be under intense scrutiny. As a quick overview

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<v Speaker 1>of why that is, we look at scandals ranging from

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<v Speaker 1>data breaches, interference from various parties to affect stuff like

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<v Speaker 1>political elections using Facebook as a platform, and the company's

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<v Speaker 1>own history of questionable policies, including one that allowed Facebook

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<v Speaker 1>employees to essentially look at anything they wanted to among

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<v Speaker 1>users because there were thousands of passwords saved in plaint text,

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<v Speaker 1>which is not good. But there are also talks about

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<v Speaker 1>the company perhaps being too powerful in general as it

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<v Speaker 1>consolidates massive individual services like WhatsApp, Instagram, and Facebook itself

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<v Speaker 1>into a more unified, dominant platform. That's brought about conversations

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<v Speaker 1>toying with the idea of breaking Facebook up into smaller companies,

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<v Speaker 1>conversations that have been happening for a while now. Today

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<v Speaker 1>I want to talk about that particular tactic, how Facebook

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<v Speaker 1>got there and what might happen next? And since I

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<v Speaker 1>record these shows in advance of their publication, by the

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<v Speaker 1>time you hear this, more may have developed in that story.

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<v Speaker 1>So let's start off with the concept of monopolies and

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<v Speaker 1>the government's power to break them up. The definition of

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<v Speaker 1>a monopoly is a situation where one producer or group

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<v Speaker 1>of producers acting together controls the market supply of a

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<v Speaker 1>good or service. So, for example, if you were the

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<v Speaker 1>only person in the world who could provide internet broadband

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<v Speaker 1>service to customers, you would be in control of a monopoly.

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<v Speaker 1>And in a monopoly, there is no competition in the

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<v Speaker 1>market for that good or service, and that means you

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<v Speaker 1>could set all the rules. You could set the price

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<v Speaker 1>and demand people meet that price. There'll be no other

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<v Speaker 1>market pressures for you to do Otherwise. You could also

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<v Speaker 1>restrict the output on purpose to increase the demand. You

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<v Speaker 1>would have very little reason to worry about your customers

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<v Speaker 1>at all, because your customers would literally have no one

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<v Speaker 1>else to turn to if they were dissatisfied. They either

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<v Speaker 1>deal with you or they go without. And as I mentioned,

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<v Speaker 1>a monopoly can actually consist of more than one entity.

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<v Speaker 1>If the collected entities are all working together, you could

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<v Speaker 1>have what amounts to a cabal of companies that are

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<v Speaker 1>all agreeing on things like how much they will charge

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<v Speaker 1>for their products or services, where they will operate within

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<v Speaker 1>a region, and how much are their supply they will

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<v Speaker 1>put on the market. That would allow the group to

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<v Speaker 1>continue to dictate price and supply. You can also have

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<v Speaker 1>similar situations in which only a couple of companies dominate

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<v Speaker 1>the market, but aren't working directly with one another to

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<v Speaker 1>control everything all the time. They may actually compete against

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<v Speaker 1>each other in limited fashion, but again, this is a

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<v Speaker 1>limited competition as there are only two companies dominating the industry.

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<v Speaker 1>This is what we call a duopoly for consumers. A

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<v Speaker 1>duopoly could be slightly better than a monopoly, but it's

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<v Speaker 1>rarely much better. From there, you can go to an oligopoly. Technically,

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<v Speaker 1>a duopoly is the smallest type of oligopoly. This is

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<v Speaker 1>any situation which a small number of large entities dominate

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<v Speaker 1>a particular market. In the United States, you could argue

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<v Speaker 1>that internet service providers have or at least at certain times,

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<v Speaker 1>have behaved as an oligopoly. Ideally, for consumers, every given

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<v Speaker 1>market will have many companies in it, all competing for business.

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<v Speaker 1>This helps ensure that an individual consumer can seek out

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<v Speaker 1>a solution that best meets their needs and means. As

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<v Speaker 1>a consumer, you can look at all the offerings available

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<v Speaker 1>in your area and way different factors such as the

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<v Speaker 1>quality of the goods and services, the cost you'll have

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<v Speaker 1>to meet, how easy it is to get hold of them,

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<v Speaker 1>the various reputations of the different competing companies, and so on.

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<v Speaker 1>But with a douopoly, your options are limited to two.

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<v Speaker 1>With a monopoly, you have no options at all. Generally speaking,

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<v Speaker 1>governments tend to protect the public against monopolies. However, there

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<v Speaker 1>are times when a government might actually create a monopoly

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<v Speaker 1>for the purposes of scaling the business up to meet

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<v Speaker 1>population demands, such as with utilities. Power utilities in the

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<v Speaker 1>United States are dominated by near monopolies certain markets. The

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<v Speaker 1>reason for that is largely because it is an incredibly

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<v Speaker 1>expensive and difficult thing to build out and maintain a

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<v Speaker 1>power utility, and supplying electricity is an incredibly important task.

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<v Speaker 1>These companies typically face state level regulations to make sure

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<v Speaker 1>they aren't gouging customers with unreasonable price hikes, or they

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<v Speaker 1>might do so for the purposes of national security, such

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<v Speaker 1>as when the United States Navy attempted to create a

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<v Speaker 1>monopoly in radio broadcasting during World War One. The Navy

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<v Speaker 1>was told that they weren't supposed to do that. By

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<v Speaker 1>the way, that effort ultimately fell short, and the Navy

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<v Speaker 1>had to hand over the assets to civilian companies. General

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<v Speaker 1>Electric would form the Radio Corporation of America for that

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<v Speaker 1>very purpose, And while our c A wasn't a total monopoly,

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<v Speaker 1>it was the dominant corporation in the early days of

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<v Speaker 1>radio broadcasting post World War One. So there have been

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<v Speaker 1>instances in which a monopoly was seen as useful or

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<v Speaker 1>even necessary to achieve certain ends, but in general the

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<v Speaker 1>US government is wary of them. The state of affairs

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<v Speaker 1>began in the late eighteen hundreds as the Industrial Revolution

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<v Speaker 1>was changing commerce dramatically. You might remember from my episodes

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<v Speaker 1>on the Industrial Revolution how things like steam engines and

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<v Speaker 1>railroad systems were transforming the world. They were also transforming business.

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<v Speaker 1>Successful endeavors would buy up smaller enterprises to increase their reach.

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<v Speaker 1>This led to a situation where fewer and fewer companies

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<v Speaker 1>were holding more and more of the market. A U

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<v Speaker 1>S Senator named John Sherman foresaw how this could develop

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<v Speaker 1>into a real problem, and then famously compared the situation

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<v Speaker 1>to that of a monarchy. He said that the citizens

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<v Speaker 1>of the United States had already decided that they didn't

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<v Speaker 1>want a king to rule over them politically, and so

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<v Speaker 1>they should be just as resistant to a king like

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<v Speaker 1>company ruling over some necessary market. Sherman's name would attached

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<v Speaker 1>to an important piece of legislation in eighteen ninety, the

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<v Speaker 1>Sherman Antitrust Act, which established laws that made it illegal

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<v Speaker 1>for anyone to try and form a monopoly or to

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<v Speaker 1>restrict trade in any given market. Should the U. S.

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<v Speaker 1>Government suspect any company of doing so, the Justice Department

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<v Speaker 1>has the authority to take that company to federal court,

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<v Speaker 1>and from there the government can do many things, such

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<v Speaker 1>as create regulations that the company must abide by, or

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<v Speaker 1>even order the company to be broken up into smaller

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<v Speaker 1>entities that presumably would compete against one another. The Sherman

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<v Speaker 1>Antitrust Act was just the first federal legislation about how

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<v Speaker 1>to deal with monopolies and anti competitive practices. Other laws

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<v Speaker 1>such as the Clayton Act, the Federal Trade Commission Act,

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<v Speaker 1>and a couple of others would round out the policy.

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<v Speaker 1>A trust, by the way, in this sense, is essentially

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<v Speaker 1>a business that is operating as an effective monopoly, or

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<v Speaker 1>one that might be a true monopoly. There have been

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<v Speaker 1>some pretty famous antitrust lawsuits in the United States that

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<v Speaker 1>led to the breakup of big companies. One of those

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<v Speaker 1>was John D. Rockefeller's Standard Oil Company in the early

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<v Speaker 1>nineteen hundreds. While there were numerous oil companies in the

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<v Speaker 1>US at the time, Rockefeller used his leverage to broker

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<v Speaker 1>favorable deals that discouraged competition wherever Standard Oil was in operation.

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<v Speaker 1>The US government swooped in and took Standard Oil to court,

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<v Speaker 1>ultimately breaking the company up into more than thirty smaller

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<v Speaker 1>oil companies, many of which would merge with one another

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<v Speaker 1>and grow to become ginormous conglomerates. So today those include Chevron, Exxon,

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<v Speaker 1>then Mobile, when eventually those two would merge back together

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<v Speaker 1>to become ex On, Mobile and Emico. Much more recently

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<v Speaker 1>was the antitrust case against A T and T in

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<v Speaker 1>the nineteen seventies and early nineteen eighties. The details of

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<v Speaker 1>the case are complicated, and maybe I should do a

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<v Speaker 1>full episode about what happened in that case. In the future.

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<v Speaker 1>But at the heart of the matter was that the

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<v Speaker 1>US government believed A. T and T had been using

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<v Speaker 1>its powerful market position to suppress competition. The government's goal

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<v Speaker 1>was to break A. T and T up. The company

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<v Speaker 1>had several operating companies called Regional Bell Operating Companies or

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<v Speaker 1>r B o c s that the government wanted to

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<v Speaker 1>see split off from A. T and T. The government

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<v Speaker 1>also wanted A. T and T to divest itself of

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<v Speaker 1>its manufacturing subsidiary of Western Electric. The reason they are

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<v Speaker 1>called Bell operating companies is that they and A T

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<v Speaker 1>and T itself traced their history back to Alexander Graham Bell,

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<v Speaker 1>inventor of the telephone. They all grew out of the

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<v Speaker 1>Bell Telephone comp Any, which evolved into the American Telephone

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<v Speaker 1>and Telegraph Company, or A T and T. This wasn't

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<v Speaker 1>the first time the government had concerns about the company.

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<v Speaker 1>Back in nineteen forty nine, the Justice Department had filed

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<v Speaker 1>a suit against A. T and T, stating the company

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<v Speaker 1>was violating the Sherman Anti Trust Act and that it

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<v Speaker 1>should spin off Western Electric. That lawsuit would eventually end

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<v Speaker 1>in a consent decree signed by A. T and T.

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<v Speaker 1>Executives in nineteen fifty six. Then the company held on

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<v Speaker 1>to a Western Electric. Ultimately, A T and T settled

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<v Speaker 1>its case out of court, agreeing to divest itself of

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<v Speaker 1>the Bell operating companies creating these seven so called baby Bells.

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<v Speaker 1>Since then, most of those companies have merged with one another,

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<v Speaker 1>with four of them back under the corporate umbrella of A.

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<v Speaker 1>T and T. So there you go. When we come back.

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<v Speaker 1>I have one other antitrust case I think it is

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<v Speaker 1>important to discuss before getting back to Facebook. But first

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<v Speaker 1>let's take a quick break. So in an episode about

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<v Speaker 1>antitrust cases and technology, I'd be remiss not to talk

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<v Speaker 1>about Microsoft. This case took place in the late nineties,

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<v Speaker 1>nineties and early two thousand's, and at the heart of

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<v Speaker 1>it was the allegation that Microsoft was using its power

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<v Speaker 1>as the world's largest software company to pressure PC manufacturers

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<v Speaker 1>to conform to Microsoft's desires. This would be like an

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<v Speaker 1>oil company demanding that all car manufacturers must make their

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<v Speaker 1>cars at a certain level of fuel inefficiency in order

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<v Speaker 1>to sell more fuel, but it went a bit deeper

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<v Speaker 1>than that. The government also stated that Microsoft was pressuring

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<v Speaker 1>PC manufacturers to make it difficult to uninstall Microsoft's own

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<v Speaker 1>web browser, Internet Explorer, and make it harder to install

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<v Speaker 1>a competing browser, namely Netscape. The government stated that Microsoft

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<v Speaker 1>had so tightly integrated the Windows operating system with the

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<v Speaker 1>Internet Explorer browser that it was effectively muscling out any

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<v Speaker 1>competing browser, and because at that time, Windows based PCs

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<v Speaker 1>were dominating the home computer market and meant that consumers

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<v Speaker 1>would have very little choice. The trial went all the

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<v Speaker 1>way to a decision. That initial decision was against Microsoft,

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<v Speaker 1>with an order to break the company up into two entities,

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<v Speaker 1>one of which would create the Windows operating system and

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<v Speaker 1>the other would oversee other software. This decision was overturned

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<v Speaker 1>on appeal, partly due to the sitting judge having given

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<v Speaker 1>interviews about the case while it was still ongoing. The

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<v Speaker 1>courts decided to consider the case again under an adjusted scope.

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<v Speaker 1>At that point, Microsoft proposed a settlement for the case,

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<v Speaker 1>which the government agreed to. Microsoft would be allowed to

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<v Speaker 1>operate as a single company. In return, Microsoft would abide

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<v Speaker 1>by certain regulations to ensure competitiveness in the market was

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<v Speaker 1>still possible. All right, so let's get back to Facebook.

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<v Speaker 1>Who thinks Facebook needs to be broken up? Now? You can?

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<v Speaker 1>You can put down your hands. It's a rhetorical question.

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<v Speaker 1>One of those people is Chris Hughes. And who is he.

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<v Speaker 1>He's a co founder of Facebook. Yikes. Now, to be clear,

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<v Speaker 1>Hughes doesn't work at Facebook, and he hasn't worked there

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<v Speaker 1>for many years. But when the founder of a company

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<v Speaker 1>says that, yeah, maybe this company needs to be split up,

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<v Speaker 1>that's something people tend to pay attention to. Hughes laid

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<v Speaker 1>out his thoughts in a piece published in The New

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<v Speaker 1>York Times on May nine, two thousand nineteen. I'm recording

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<v Speaker 1>this episode on May two thousand nineteen, so the news

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<v Speaker 1>is pretty fresh. Hughes. His assertion is that Mark Zuckerberg,

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<v Speaker 1>whom he considers a friend, has far too much power,

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<v Speaker 1>and the way he lays it out is pretty convincing.

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<v Speaker 1>I'll quote a paragraph from the New York Times piece. Quote,

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<v Speaker 1>Mark's influence is staggering, far beyond that of anyone else

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<v Speaker 1>in the private sector or in government. He controls three

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<v Speaker 1>core communications platforms, Facebook, Instagram, and WhatsApp that billions of

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<v Speaker 1>people use every day. Facebook's board works more like an

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<v Speaker 1>advisory committee than an overseer. Because Mark controls around sixty

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<v Speaker 1>percent of voting shares. Mark alone can decide how to

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<v Speaker 1>configure Facebook's algorithms to determine what people see in their

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<v Speaker 1>news feeds, what privacy settings they can use, and even

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<v Speaker 1>which messages get delivered. He sets the rules for how

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<v Speaker 1>to distinguish violent and incendiary speech from the merely offensive,

0:14:56.520 --> 0:15:00.960
<v Speaker 1>and he can choose to shut down a competitor by acquiring, blocking,

0:15:01.480 --> 0:15:06.760
<v Speaker 1>or copying it. End quote. Okay, so let's take a

0:15:06.880 --> 0:15:10.400
<v Speaker 1>look at how this came to pass, and then examined

0:15:10.480 --> 0:15:14.720
<v Speaker 1>Hughes's proposal to split up Facebook. Now, I've done episodes

0:15:15.080 --> 0:15:19.000
<v Speaker 1>about the history of Facebook before, so this is not

0:15:19.160 --> 0:15:22.640
<v Speaker 1>going to be an exhaustive treatment. The social media site

0:15:22.680 --> 0:15:25.200
<v Speaker 1>got its start back in two thousand four, when the

0:15:25.280 --> 0:15:29.320
<v Speaker 1>co founders, including Mark Zuckerberg, began building out a basic

0:15:29.480 --> 0:15:33.760
<v Speaker 1>social media platform aimed at college students at Harvard. It

0:15:33.840 --> 0:15:37.480
<v Speaker 1>had a particular focus on dating, but rapidly grew beyond

0:15:37.600 --> 0:15:41.400
<v Speaker 1>that to involve all sorts of social connections, and originally

0:15:41.600 --> 0:15:45.920
<v Speaker 1>only Harvard students had access to it, but it expanded

0:15:45.960 --> 0:15:50.120
<v Speaker 1>to other university campuses. It remained only open to college

0:15:50.160 --> 0:15:53.080
<v Speaker 1>students until the fall of two thousand six, when the

0:15:53.120 --> 0:15:56.560
<v Speaker 1>site opened up its membership to anyone. That was the

0:15:56.640 --> 0:16:00.440
<v Speaker 1>same time that Facebook first introduced the news feed, which

0:16:00.480 --> 0:16:03.040
<v Speaker 1>we take for granted now. This is the list of

0:16:03.160 --> 0:16:06.160
<v Speaker 1>updates from your various friends, and it would be part

0:16:06.280 --> 0:16:09.320
<v Speaker 1>of what Hughes includes in his arguments for breaking up

0:16:09.360 --> 0:16:13.800
<v Speaker 1>the company. More on that later. Facebook's popularity was on

0:16:13.880 --> 0:16:17.680
<v Speaker 1>the rise, and it was in competition with several other

0:16:17.880 --> 0:16:21.400
<v Speaker 1>social networks. I talked about them recently. One big one

0:16:21.640 --> 0:16:25.040
<v Speaker 1>was my Space, which had been purchased by Rupert Murdock's company,

0:16:25.160 --> 0:16:28.840
<v Speaker 1>News Corps for around half a billion dollars. That gave

0:16:28.880 --> 0:16:31.240
<v Speaker 1>a lot of folks over at Facebook the confidence that

0:16:31.320 --> 0:16:35.120
<v Speaker 1>their company was worth even more than MySpace, as Facebook's

0:16:35.120 --> 0:16:38.040
<v Speaker 1>trajectory was in growth and my Space was already starting

0:16:38.080 --> 0:16:42.440
<v Speaker 1>to hit some hard barriers. During this time, Facebook was

0:16:42.520 --> 0:16:46.200
<v Speaker 1>forced to innovate to set itself apart from other social networks.

0:16:46.760 --> 0:16:49.760
<v Speaker 1>It needed to have the features that users would find

0:16:49.840 --> 0:16:53.200
<v Speaker 1>most compelling. Competition was good, as it meant that the

0:16:53.240 --> 0:16:57.840
<v Speaker 1>company was constantly improving. Sometimes this was in true innovation,

0:16:58.360 --> 0:17:00.760
<v Speaker 1>and other times it was in finding a way to

0:17:00.880 --> 0:17:04.879
<v Speaker 1>replicate what someone else was already doing. Zuckerberg led his

0:17:05.000 --> 0:17:08.560
<v Speaker 1>company to turn down an acquisition offer from Yahoo to

0:17:08.720 --> 0:17:13.280
<v Speaker 1>the tune of one billion dollars. In two thousand and seven,

0:17:13.560 --> 0:17:16.920
<v Speaker 1>the company would launch its mobile platform and make available

0:17:17.000 --> 0:17:20.320
<v Speaker 1>a platform for third party developers to create apps that

0:17:20.400 --> 0:17:23.920
<v Speaker 1>could live on top of the Facebook experience. It wasn't

0:17:24.000 --> 0:17:27.239
<v Speaker 1>until two thousand nine that Facebook reported that it had

0:17:27.320 --> 0:17:32.360
<v Speaker 1>become cash flow positive. The company began acquiring other companies.

0:17:32.880 --> 0:17:35.919
<v Speaker 1>It had previously acquired a company called connect You as

0:17:36.000 --> 0:17:39.720
<v Speaker 1>part of a lawsuit settlement in it bought a photo

0:17:39.840 --> 0:17:45.080
<v Speaker 1>sharing service called Divvy Shot. Facebook would release Facebook Messenger

0:17:45.160 --> 0:17:49.159
<v Speaker 1>for Android and iOS devices in two thousand eleven, and

0:17:49.240 --> 0:17:52.959
<v Speaker 1>then it made the first of its really huge acquisitions.

0:17:53.680 --> 0:17:57.320
<v Speaker 1>In two thousand and twelve, Facebook paid and astonishing one

0:17:57.600 --> 0:18:02.840
<v Speaker 1>billion dollars to acquire a rival social networking service, Instagram.

0:18:03.920 --> 0:18:07.160
<v Speaker 1>In case you're not familiar with Instagram, it's a mobile

0:18:07.359 --> 0:18:11.399
<v Speaker 1>photo sharing app. It's kind of like Facebook without all

0:18:11.440 --> 0:18:16.080
<v Speaker 1>the words. It is focused almost exclusively on sharing photos

0:18:16.240 --> 0:18:20.359
<v Speaker 1>and short videos among users. It's a popular platform and

0:18:20.440 --> 0:18:24.040
<v Speaker 1>there are many quote unquote influencers who make their living

0:18:24.160 --> 0:18:27.800
<v Speaker 1>off of Instagram in various ways, such as hosting sponsored

0:18:27.880 --> 0:18:33.080
<v Speaker 1>posts on your Instagram account. It's easier set than done, though,

0:18:33.240 --> 0:18:36.200
<v Speaker 1>because it requires you get a nice, big following of

0:18:36.280 --> 0:18:40.040
<v Speaker 1>folks who are engaged with your content first, and those

0:18:40.080 --> 0:18:43.280
<v Speaker 1>two factors, the number of followers and their engagement with

0:18:43.359 --> 0:18:46.920
<v Speaker 1>your posts, are what really matter. That's why some Instagram

0:18:47.040 --> 0:18:51.480
<v Speaker 1>influencers urged their users to comment on posts or even

0:18:51.560 --> 0:18:54.520
<v Speaker 1>try to spell out a long word in an unbroken

0:18:54.640 --> 0:18:57.960
<v Speaker 1>string of comments, each with a single letter in them.

0:18:58.640 --> 0:19:03.359
<v Speaker 1>Some like me argue that this isn't really meaningful engagement,

0:19:03.600 --> 0:19:05.560
<v Speaker 1>but it is a great way to inflate the number

0:19:05.640 --> 0:19:11.640
<v Speaker 1>of comments of post gets anyway. Influencer tactics aside, Instagram

0:19:12.000 --> 0:19:14.880
<v Speaker 1>was killing it in an area where Facebook was still

0:19:14.960 --> 0:19:18.920
<v Speaker 1>having issues, namely in the mobile world, and that presented

0:19:19.000 --> 0:19:23.320
<v Speaker 1>a huge challenge to Facebook. Ever, since consumer smartphones had

0:19:23.400 --> 0:19:26.560
<v Speaker 1>established a real market in the wake of the iPhones release,

0:19:27.119 --> 0:19:30.680
<v Speaker 1>more people were using mobile devices like phones and tablets

0:19:30.720 --> 0:19:34.960
<v Speaker 1>to access the web. Computer usage didn't exactly tank, but

0:19:35.040 --> 0:19:37.240
<v Speaker 1>it was clear that the mobile platform was going to

0:19:37.320 --> 0:19:41.320
<v Speaker 1>play an increasingly significant role in how people interact with

0:19:41.440 --> 0:19:45.359
<v Speaker 1>content on the Internet, and Facebook's mobile platform had not

0:19:45.640 --> 0:19:49.880
<v Speaker 1>been performing as well as the company wanted. Instagram had

0:19:49.960 --> 0:19:53.840
<v Speaker 1>really nailed down an experience that resonated with mobile users,

0:19:54.240 --> 0:19:57.240
<v Speaker 1>so rather than try to build a tool to go

0:19:57.440 --> 0:20:00.760
<v Speaker 1>head to head with Instagram or even copy what they

0:20:00.840 --> 0:20:05.320
<v Speaker 1>did outright, Facebook acquired its rival. It was a smart

0:20:05.400 --> 0:20:09.240
<v Speaker 1>move on the part of Facebook. Instagram wasn't exactly on

0:20:09.359 --> 0:20:13.200
<v Speaker 1>the same level. In October of two thousand twelve, Zuckerberg

0:20:13.240 --> 0:20:17.800
<v Speaker 1>announced that Facebook had hit the milestone of one billion users.

0:20:18.520 --> 0:20:24.240
<v Speaker 1>Instagram only boasted twenty seven million. But the Instagram users

0:20:24.320 --> 0:20:28.720
<v Speaker 1>were on Instagram more than mobile Facebook users were on Facebook,

0:20:29.200 --> 0:20:31.960
<v Speaker 1>and the writing was on the wall. Facebook began to

0:20:32.080 --> 0:20:36.359
<v Speaker 1>integrate many of Instagram's features into its own services, while

0:20:36.400 --> 0:20:40.600
<v Speaker 1>also pushing to have more Facebook features incorporated into Instagram.

0:20:41.200 --> 0:20:45.200
<v Speaker 1>This led to an environment that ultimately convinced Instagram's founders

0:20:45.280 --> 0:20:48.320
<v Speaker 1>to jump ship, frustrated that their work was being shaped

0:20:48.440 --> 0:20:52.320
<v Speaker 1>by someone else. So that purchase was a big one,

0:20:52.680 --> 0:20:55.840
<v Speaker 1>but it would be dwarfed by the acquisition of WhatsApp

0:20:55.960 --> 0:20:59.920
<v Speaker 1>in two thousand and fourteen. For that service, Facebook would

0:21:00.040 --> 0:21:06.600
<v Speaker 1>fork over an astounding nineteen billion dollars and WhatsApp is

0:21:06.640 --> 0:21:09.240
<v Speaker 1>one of those services that a lot of folks in

0:21:09.320 --> 0:21:12.359
<v Speaker 1>the United States are unfamiliar with, as it didn't have

0:21:12.600 --> 0:21:15.760
<v Speaker 1>a lot of penetration over here, so that made the

0:21:15.800 --> 0:21:18.919
<v Speaker 1>whole thing even more of a head scratcher. I remember

0:21:18.960 --> 0:21:21.040
<v Speaker 1>when it happened, a lot of folks were saying they

0:21:21.119 --> 0:21:25.200
<v Speaker 1>spent nearly twenty billion dollars to buy who Now For

0:21:25.240 --> 0:21:28.920
<v Speaker 1>those who aren't familiar, and I include myself in that category,

0:21:29.280 --> 0:21:33.360
<v Speaker 1>as I've never used the service WhatsApp as a messaging service.

0:21:33.960 --> 0:21:37.159
<v Speaker 1>It's tied to mobile phones, though you can use it

0:21:37.280 --> 0:21:40.760
<v Speaker 1>on a PC if the associated phone is also connected

0:21:40.800 --> 0:21:43.280
<v Speaker 1>to the Internet. It was created by a couple of

0:21:43.359 --> 0:21:46.920
<v Speaker 1>former Yahoo employees, and yeah, I find it kind of

0:21:46.960 --> 0:21:48.760
<v Speaker 1>funny that a couple of folks who worked for a

0:21:48.840 --> 0:21:52.440
<v Speaker 1>company that tried to buy Facebook would ultimately find their

0:21:52.520 --> 0:21:56.880
<v Speaker 1>startup bought by Facebook later on. Because it works over

0:21:56.920 --> 0:22:00.159
<v Speaker 1>the Internet, it doesn't follow the same protocols as a

0:22:00.280 --> 0:22:03.119
<v Speaker 1>text message, and so for people who have a limit

0:22:03.480 --> 0:22:06.359
<v Speaker 1>on how many texts they can send per month before

0:22:06.520 --> 0:22:10.639
<v Speaker 1>being charged extra, it's a valuable service. Rather than sending

0:22:10.840 --> 0:22:14.959
<v Speaker 1>SMS messages, you use the Internet and sidestep those restrictions.

0:22:15.560 --> 0:22:18.600
<v Speaker 1>In the earliest pitch for the service, users would post

0:22:18.640 --> 0:22:21.200
<v Speaker 1>a status that would populate out to everyone in that

0:22:21.359 --> 0:22:24.840
<v Speaker 1>users social network, essentially the friends who were also using

0:22:24.920 --> 0:22:27.600
<v Speaker 1>that service. This made it sort of like Twitter in

0:22:27.640 --> 0:22:30.920
<v Speaker 1>a way, except it wasn't doing it through SMS. This

0:22:31.080 --> 0:22:34.800
<v Speaker 1>quickly evolved into more of an instant messengers service. He

0:22:35.000 --> 0:22:37.520
<v Speaker 1>used phone numbers as the log in so there was

0:22:37.560 --> 0:22:40.280
<v Speaker 1>no need for user names or passwords. If you were

0:22:40.320 --> 0:22:42.399
<v Speaker 1>logging in on the phone, you were good to go.

0:22:42.840 --> 0:22:45.919
<v Speaker 1>You didn't even have to give WhatsApp other information about yourself,

0:22:46.040 --> 0:22:50.119
<v Speaker 1>like your gender, age, or address. It became a paid

0:22:50.200 --> 0:22:54.000
<v Speaker 1>for service in which users would fork over the princely

0:22:54.200 --> 0:22:58.040
<v Speaker 1>sum of a shiny dollar per year for a subscription,

0:22:58.320 --> 0:23:01.959
<v Speaker 1>and the first year was free. This helped cover verification

0:23:02.080 --> 0:23:06.080
<v Speaker 1>costs the company was incurring while establishing accounts. The user

0:23:06.160 --> 0:23:10.760
<v Speaker 1>base grew, and by it was around two hundred million users,

0:23:11.200 --> 0:23:14.440
<v Speaker 1>and then two thousand fourteen happened. More on that in

0:23:14.600 --> 0:23:18.280
<v Speaker 1>just a second, but first let's take another quick break.

0:23:25.920 --> 0:23:30.119
<v Speaker 1>So Facebook comes in and slams down this guard gantuan

0:23:30.240 --> 0:23:35.800
<v Speaker 1>deal for WhatsApp nineteen point three billion dollars for an

0:23:35.800 --> 0:23:38.880
<v Speaker 1>app that in two thousand fifteen would become the most

0:23:39.080 --> 0:23:44.160
<v Speaker 1>popular messaging app in the world with six hundred million users.

0:23:44.840 --> 0:23:48.480
<v Speaker 1>So why was Facebook so gung ho on getting WhatsApp?

0:23:49.080 --> 0:23:53.520
<v Speaker 1>According to analysts, WhatsApp had only earned twenty million dollars

0:23:53.840 --> 0:23:56.320
<v Speaker 1>in two thousand thirteen, So how the heck did we

0:23:56.400 --> 0:24:01.000
<v Speaker 1>get to nineteen billion for the offer? Well, for one thing,

0:24:01.320 --> 0:24:04.800
<v Speaker 1>while the company wasn't raking in mountains of cash compared

0:24:04.880 --> 0:24:09.000
<v Speaker 1>to a goliath like Facebook, it was the fastest growing

0:24:09.119 --> 0:24:13.240
<v Speaker 1>company in terms of users in all of history. That's

0:24:13.320 --> 0:24:16.280
<v Speaker 1>enough right there to make Zuckerberg take notice, as the

0:24:16.440 --> 0:24:20.600
<v Speaker 1>numbers of users of his service helped define his company's value.

0:24:21.359 --> 0:24:25.399
<v Speaker 1>Another factor is that whenever people were using WhatsApp, they

0:24:25.480 --> 0:24:29.960
<v Speaker 1>weren't using Facebook. There's a limitation of time at play here,

0:24:30.520 --> 0:24:34.000
<v Speaker 1>and Facebook wants as much of a user's time as

0:24:34.040 --> 0:24:37.320
<v Speaker 1>they can get. The more time a user spends on

0:24:37.440 --> 0:24:41.680
<v Speaker 1>Facebook services, the more information Facebook can gather to serve

0:24:41.760 --> 0:24:44.760
<v Speaker 1>up targeted ads, and the more money Facebook can get

0:24:44.840 --> 0:24:48.359
<v Speaker 1>from advertisers. As I've said many times, and I'm not

0:24:48.640 --> 0:24:52.719
<v Speaker 1>the first person to say this, it's Facebook's users who

0:24:52.760 --> 0:24:56.800
<v Speaker 1>are the actual product of the company. Or rather, it's

0:24:56.800 --> 0:25:01.280
<v Speaker 1>our time and our information and our attention. Facebook can

0:25:01.320 --> 0:25:05.440
<v Speaker 1>say to an advertiser, Hey, because of these acquisitions, the

0:25:05.560 --> 0:25:08.680
<v Speaker 1>average user is spending something like two hours out of

0:25:08.840 --> 0:25:12.520
<v Speaker 1>every day on one of our services. Don't you want

0:25:12.560 --> 0:25:15.440
<v Speaker 1>your ads to play on that kind of platform. WhatsApp

0:25:15.560 --> 0:25:20.800
<v Speaker 1>was outpacing Facebook messenger engagement time, and so like Instagram,

0:25:21.160 --> 0:25:23.720
<v Speaker 1>Facebook needed to figure out how to meet this challenge,

0:25:24.240 --> 0:25:26.720
<v Speaker 1>and the answer was to buy the threat and make

0:25:26.760 --> 0:25:29.720
<v Speaker 1>it part of the company. And just like with Instagram,

0:25:30.080 --> 0:25:33.119
<v Speaker 1>Facebook would make changes to WhatsApp and place demands on

0:25:33.200 --> 0:25:36.280
<v Speaker 1>the service that would lead to its founders leaving the company.

0:25:37.119 --> 0:25:40.160
<v Speaker 1>To bring this back to Facebook co founder Chris Hughes,

0:25:41.000 --> 0:25:44.280
<v Speaker 1>he asserts that it was a mistake for the Federal

0:25:44.440 --> 0:25:50.119
<v Speaker 1>Trade Commission or FTC to approve both acquisitions. Perhaps at

0:25:50.119 --> 0:25:53.480
<v Speaker 1>the time it was understandable as Instagram was still relatively

0:25:53.560 --> 0:25:58.120
<v Speaker 1>small and WhatsApps revenues were relatively modest compared to Facebook.

0:25:58.520 --> 0:26:01.440
<v Speaker 1>But by becoming part of the large your company, Facebook

0:26:01.520 --> 0:26:04.359
<v Speaker 1>was able to reduce the number of competitors vying for

0:26:04.520 --> 0:26:09.840
<v Speaker 1>users time and attention. Now Facebook controls three powerful platforms

0:26:10.160 --> 0:26:14.480
<v Speaker 1>that are slowly merging together into a more integrated experience. This,

0:26:15.040 --> 0:26:20.760
<v Speaker 1>says Hughes, gives Suckerberg unprecedented control over communication channels. Facebook

0:26:20.840 --> 0:26:24.640
<v Speaker 1>is in such a dominant position that faces no competitive

0:26:24.720 --> 0:26:28.480
<v Speaker 1>market pressures to change course, meaning the only thing dictating

0:26:28.560 --> 0:26:33.600
<v Speaker 1>Facebook's actions is Facebook itself. Further, when I say Facebook,

0:26:33.920 --> 0:26:38.879
<v Speaker 1>I really mean Zuckerberg. Remember, Hugh said, Zuckerberg controls about

0:26:39.000 --> 0:26:42.000
<v Speaker 1>sixty percent of voting shares in the company, so he

0:26:42.080 --> 0:26:45.040
<v Speaker 1>has majority vote in all matters. He can't even be

0:26:45.240 --> 0:26:47.879
<v Speaker 1>voted off the board of directors. Because he controls the

0:26:47.920 --> 0:26:51.920
<v Speaker 1>majority vote, he can ultimately decide what the news feed

0:26:52.000 --> 0:26:56.800
<v Speaker 1>algorithm favors or dismisses. He decides what you see on Facebook,

0:26:57.160 --> 0:27:01.640
<v Speaker 1>not you. And as Hugh's points out, the company has

0:27:01.800 --> 0:27:06.320
<v Speaker 1>intervened in a few cases to delete messages sent between users.

0:27:07.160 --> 0:27:11.200
<v Speaker 1>The instance, Hughes sites happened in two thousand seventeen in Myanmar,

0:27:11.680 --> 0:27:15.160
<v Speaker 1>in which there were cases of Facebook users living there

0:27:15.400 --> 0:27:19.359
<v Speaker 1>who are advocating for the extermination of the Rohingya people

0:27:19.520 --> 0:27:23.119
<v Speaker 1>calling for Gina side. Zuckerberg made the decision to have

0:27:23.240 --> 0:27:27.640
<v Speaker 1>all those messages deleted after they were detected, and it's

0:27:27.760 --> 0:27:31.720
<v Speaker 1>hard to argue against that. The consequences of allowing those

0:27:31.760 --> 0:27:34.680
<v Speaker 1>messages to go through could have led to the death

0:27:35.000 --> 0:27:40.959
<v Speaker 1>of countless people. But it's also setting up precedent. Zuckerberg

0:27:41.119 --> 0:27:44.720
<v Speaker 1>actually has the power to determine which messages are allowable.

0:27:45.040 --> 0:27:48.960
<v Speaker 1>There's no government oversight on his capabilities, and so he

0:27:49.040 --> 0:27:51.320
<v Speaker 1>could do this all on his own, and there may

0:27:51.400 --> 0:27:55.480
<v Speaker 1>be a case where the ethical decision isn't so clearly distinguished.

0:27:56.040 --> 0:28:00.520
<v Speaker 1>Hugh says that Facebook, Instagram, and WhatsApp should be split

0:28:00.680 --> 0:28:05.199
<v Speaker 1>into three companies again, and each have regulations that restrict

0:28:05.280 --> 0:28:10.240
<v Speaker 1>their abilities to make any acquisitions for several years. Stockholders

0:28:10.280 --> 0:28:13.359
<v Speaker 1>would retain shares in each of the companies, though the

0:28:13.480 --> 0:28:16.679
<v Speaker 1>heads of each company would likely be required to divest

0:28:16.760 --> 0:28:20.439
<v Speaker 1>their management shares in the other two, and Hugh's argues

0:28:20.520 --> 0:28:22.960
<v Speaker 1>that this would allow for more competition in the space,

0:28:23.440 --> 0:28:27.440
<v Speaker 1>leading to greater innovation and growth, thus benefiting shareholders down

0:28:27.480 --> 0:28:31.680
<v Speaker 1>the line. Hughes isn't alone in wanting to see this happen.

0:28:32.240 --> 0:28:36.399
<v Speaker 1>There are various organizations like the Electronic Privacy Information Center

0:28:36.680 --> 0:28:39.960
<v Speaker 1>that feel much the same, as well as lawmakers such

0:28:40.000 --> 0:28:43.360
<v Speaker 1>as Senator Elizabeth Warren who have called for this kind

0:28:43.400 --> 0:28:47.920
<v Speaker 1>of action. Facebook has proposed legislators come up with regulations

0:28:48.200 --> 0:28:55.080
<v Speaker 1>for the company regarding things like privacy and UH and competitiveness,

0:28:55.200 --> 0:28:58.239
<v Speaker 1>but Hugh's argues that this is not nearly going far

0:28:58.400 --> 0:29:01.440
<v Speaker 1>enough to counter the potential threat the company poses to

0:29:01.560 --> 0:29:07.680
<v Speaker 1>communication and competition. Other companies like Google and Amazon are

0:29:07.720 --> 0:29:10.960
<v Speaker 1>watching all this very closely, as both of those have

0:29:11.080 --> 0:29:15.920
<v Speaker 1>also built empires on practices not too dissimilar from Facebook's.

0:29:16.480 --> 0:29:19.000
<v Speaker 1>In fact, in Warren's case, we may see actions that

0:29:19.040 --> 0:29:21.920
<v Speaker 1>will lead to numerous tech giants having to spend off

0:29:22.080 --> 0:29:24.880
<v Speaker 1>part of their companies by federal law, or at least

0:29:24.920 --> 0:29:28.680
<v Speaker 1>being taken to court for it. Should it happen, well,

0:29:28.760 --> 0:29:32.600
<v Speaker 1>in my opinion, I think it should. I think Facebook

0:29:32.720 --> 0:29:35.320
<v Speaker 1>needs to have some checks and balances in place to

0:29:35.400 --> 0:29:39.400
<v Speaker 1>prevent it from becoming the de facto arbiter of all communications.

0:29:40.120 --> 0:29:45.000
<v Speaker 1>Anti competitive practices are harmful, and Facebook's practice of beatum

0:29:45.200 --> 0:29:48.440
<v Speaker 1>or buy them means that anyone with a compelling idea

0:29:48.880 --> 0:29:52.080
<v Speaker 1>has little incentive to pursue it unless it's with the

0:29:52.160 --> 0:29:54.560
<v Speaker 1>hope that Facebook will buy them out of the idea

0:29:54.840 --> 0:29:57.680
<v Speaker 1>and they can cash out. Otherwise, you might think, well,

0:29:57.760 --> 0:30:00.560
<v Speaker 1>I might make this really cool social network king site,

0:30:00.920 --> 0:30:03.120
<v Speaker 1>but then Facebook is going to pay attention, and then

0:30:03.160 --> 0:30:05.600
<v Speaker 1>they're gonna copy me, and then they're gonna run me

0:30:05.640 --> 0:30:09.200
<v Speaker 1>out and I won't have any business at all. Regulations

0:30:09.240 --> 0:30:12.000
<v Speaker 1>are also necessary, but I feel that Hughes is right

0:30:12.040 --> 0:30:14.200
<v Speaker 1>on the money. That's not enough to make sure the

0:30:14.240 --> 0:30:18.040
<v Speaker 1>company behaves in a responsible and accountable way. So will

0:30:18.440 --> 0:30:22.480
<v Speaker 1>it happen that I'm not so sure about. Since the

0:30:22.600 --> 0:30:25.680
<v Speaker 1>nineteen eighties, there's been a shift that has been more

0:30:25.800 --> 0:30:31.959
<v Speaker 1>favorable toward big business, leading to the establishment of mega corporations, consolidation,

0:30:32.320 --> 0:30:36.800
<v Speaker 1>and a reduction in competitiveness across numerous markets. It will

0:30:36.840 --> 0:30:40.080
<v Speaker 1>take a lot of willpower to reverse that momentum. It

0:30:40.120 --> 0:30:43.040
<v Speaker 1>will surprise me if the US government takes steps to

0:30:43.120 --> 0:30:47.040
<v Speaker 1>break up Facebook, not to mention Google and Amazon, but

0:30:47.360 --> 0:30:49.920
<v Speaker 1>it would be a welcome surprise, as I think it

0:30:50.080 --> 0:30:53.120
<v Speaker 1>would ultimately be a better outcome for the rest of us.

0:30:53.840 --> 0:30:56.640
<v Speaker 1>But that doesn't necessarily mean it will actually happen. What

0:30:56.800 --> 0:30:59.800
<v Speaker 1>do you guys think? Do you feel that Facebook has

0:30:59.800 --> 0:31:02.360
<v Speaker 1>read to the point where we need to have this concern?

0:31:02.480 --> 0:31:05.360
<v Speaker 1>Are you worried that perhaps they have too much power

0:31:05.520 --> 0:31:08.640
<v Speaker 1>over the way we communicate with one another? The real

0:31:08.720 --> 0:31:11.320
<v Speaker 1>issue for me is that if you feel that way,

0:31:12.200 --> 0:31:15.080
<v Speaker 1>you have few alternatives you can turn to to use

0:31:15.200 --> 0:31:19.800
<v Speaker 1>instead of Facebook. Where do you go? That's where everybody is,

0:31:20.240 --> 0:31:24.080
<v Speaker 1>and no one else can get a platform to get

0:31:24.160 --> 0:31:27.560
<v Speaker 1>much traction because they're going up against a giant that

0:31:27.640 --> 0:31:31.440
<v Speaker 1>can wipe them out pretty easily. It's a tricky thing,

0:31:31.960 --> 0:31:34.120
<v Speaker 1>but I'm curious what you guys think. You can let

0:31:34.160 --> 0:31:36.560
<v Speaker 1>me know, or you can send me any comments or

0:31:36.680 --> 0:31:40.680
<v Speaker 1>questions you might have to the email address tech stuff

0:31:40.920 --> 0:31:44.080
<v Speaker 1>at how stuff works dot com. You can dropped by

0:31:44.200 --> 0:31:47.680
<v Speaker 1>our website that's tech stuff podcast dot com. There you're

0:31:47.680 --> 0:31:50.520
<v Speaker 1>going to find an archive to all of our older episodes.

0:31:50.920 --> 0:31:54.440
<v Speaker 1>You'll find links to our presence on social media, and

0:31:54.640 --> 0:31:56.880
<v Speaker 1>you will also find a link to our online store,

0:31:56.920 --> 0:31:59.320
<v Speaker 1>where every purchase you make goes to help the show

0:31:59.440 --> 0:32:02.280
<v Speaker 1>and we rately appreciate it, and I will talk to

0:32:02.320 --> 0:32:11.160
<v Speaker 1>you again really soon. Y text Stuff is a production

0:32:11.200 --> 0:32:14.160
<v Speaker 1>of I Heart Radio's How Stuff Works. For more podcasts

0:32:14.240 --> 0:32:16.960
<v Speaker 1>from I heart Radio, visit the i heart Radio app,

0:32:17.120 --> 0:32:20.240
<v Speaker 1>Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.