WEBVTT - Melora Hardin 0:00:00.800 --> 0:00:08.160 Hi everybody. I'm l Laura Harden and I played Jan 0:00:08.720 --> 0:00:18.880 Levinson on the Office. Well, welcome back everyone, Thank you 0:00:18.960 --> 0:00:22.640 so much for joining me again here on the Office 0:00:22.760 --> 0:00:26.799 Deep Dive. I am your host, as always, Brian Baumgartner 0:00:27.040 --> 0:00:30.840 on the podcast today, as you just heard, we have 0:00:31.440 --> 0:00:38.760 the insanely talented Laura Harden. Me. Laura is an incredible 0:00:39.320 --> 0:00:42.400 actor and probably more than anyone else in the cast. 0:00:42.920 --> 0:00:47.080 Acting and show biz was in her blood. Both of 0:00:47.120 --> 0:00:51.400 her parents worked as actors, and she herself started out 0:00:51.440 --> 0:00:54.800 as a child actor. She starred, She didn't just appear. 0:00:55.040 --> 0:00:59.520 She starred in a TV show called Thunder when she 0:00:59.640 --> 0:01:03.960 was ten years old. So by the time we filmed 0:01:03.960 --> 0:01:08.679 the pilot, me Laura was definitely the most established performer 0:01:09.360 --> 0:01:12.399 on set. And now me Laura played a kind of 0:01:12.480 --> 0:01:15.560 unique role in the ensemble, right, I mean, she was 0:01:15.600 --> 0:01:18.679 the big wig boss who rolls in from New York 0:01:18.959 --> 0:01:22.000 every once in a while. She's not there in every episode, 0:01:22.200 --> 0:01:26.320 but she brought so much to the show in that role, 0:01:26.640 --> 0:01:30.600 especially in terms of her dynamic with Steve Carrell, which 0:01:31.360 --> 0:01:35.920 was so hilarious and well obviously something we discussed at 0:01:36.040 --> 0:01:41.080 length during this conversation. Unfortunately, because of COVID. I couldn't 0:01:41.120 --> 0:01:44.760 sit down with me Laura in the studio, but even 0:01:44.800 --> 0:01:48.440 just talking to her by phone was an absolute treat 0:01:48.800 --> 0:01:52.840 for me, and so therefore now a treat for you. 0:01:53.280 --> 0:02:02.960 So here she is, Laura Harden. Bubble and squeak. I 0:02:03.160 --> 0:02:09.840 love it. Bubble and squeak, Bubble and squeaker, cookie, every 0:02:10.080 --> 0:02:23.520 moment left over from the nut before. You know, I've 0:02:23.680 --> 0:02:25.520 tried to As I told you before, I tried to 0:02:25.560 --> 0:02:30.079 do all these in person. I did Ricky and Stephen uh, 0:02:30.120 --> 0:02:32.919 Stephen Merchant and Ricky Gervais the other day. You sound 0:02:33.120 --> 0:02:35.680 so much better than they do. I don't know what's 0:02:35.680 --> 0:02:40.280 wrong with that, just because better than they are. Well, yes, 0:02:40.440 --> 0:02:45.320 obviously I'm gonna actually i'll send you later a picture. 0:02:45.440 --> 0:02:50.440 I am in a room totally by myself. I'm standing 0:02:50.680 --> 0:02:55.040 so that I don't catch coronavirus in this thing. I'm 0:02:55.160 --> 0:03:00.680 about three feet staring directly into a wall. It's very concerting, 0:03:00.800 --> 0:03:05.360 but you know, um, all right, Laura, thank you so much, 0:03:05.800 --> 0:03:08.840 um for coming to talk to me here. Well, you 0:03:08.840 --> 0:03:11.000 didn't really go anywhere, You didn't really go anywhere, but 0:03:11.400 --> 0:03:13.799 so I want to talk a little bit about you 0:03:13.919 --> 0:03:17.760 before the Office. You started as a child actor, right, Yeah. 0:03:17.800 --> 0:03:20.080 I started acting professionally when I was six years old. 0:03:20.360 --> 0:03:22.600 So I was doing tons of you know, guest starring 0:03:22.720 --> 0:03:25.160 roles I had done. I think The Office was like 0:03:25.200 --> 0:03:28.320 my eleventh pilot that I had done. I had done 0:03:28.360 --> 0:03:32.800 many short lived series. I've done some movies and yeah 0:03:32.840 --> 0:03:35.560 that's and I've done a little feater too. So I 0:03:35.600 --> 0:03:39.280 had heard fourteen. But but you just said so the 0:03:39.280 --> 0:03:42.840 The Office was the eleventh pilot that you had shot. 0:03:42.880 --> 0:03:46.240 What happened to the ten before? It could have been? 0:03:46.320 --> 0:03:49.240 It could have been the fourteenth. I don't know, you know, 0:03:49.320 --> 0:03:51.480 to be honest, I've done so many. I mean a 0:03:51.520 --> 0:03:53.800 lot of them were like short lives some of some 0:03:53.840 --> 0:03:57.200 of them were just pilots and then they would get canceled. Um. 0:03:57.240 --> 0:03:59.440 Some of them were short lived series. I was on 0:03:59.520 --> 0:04:03.280 quite a few series that lived for you know, six episodes, 0:04:03.360 --> 0:04:07.400 ten episodes. Uh, well, I did. I did some shows 0:04:07.400 --> 0:04:09.000 when I was a really kid, Like I did a 0:04:09.000 --> 0:04:12.160 Shaturday morning show for kids when I was ten about 0:04:12.160 --> 0:04:14.440 a black stallion that came when I whistled, and together 0:04:14.480 --> 0:04:16.840 we would save the day, and and that one ran 0:04:17.000 --> 0:04:20.120 for a series that was like twenty two episodes, and 0:04:20.160 --> 0:04:23.520 then and then I did another one called Cliffwood Avenue Kids, 0:04:23.520 --> 0:04:26.640 which was a syndicated show at the time when shows 0:04:26.640 --> 0:04:29.440 were syndicated, and I was nine when I did that, 0:04:29.520 --> 0:04:31.960 and that one, I think was like twenty five episodes. 0:04:32.560 --> 0:04:34.800 But other than that, most of the shows I did 0:04:34.800 --> 0:04:39.680 were like six episodes, you know, five episodes, or just 0:04:39.800 --> 0:04:43.400 pilots that then were that were never picked up. When 0:04:43.440 --> 0:04:46.200 did you first hear about the American version of the Office? 0:04:46.320 --> 0:04:48.600 Had you seen the British version. I had never seen 0:04:48.600 --> 0:04:52.960 the British version. I'm not a big TV watcher in general. Um, 0:04:53.120 --> 0:04:57.279 and I I remember it was I remember it weird, 0:04:57.320 --> 0:04:59.479 And it's weird that I do remember it, because I don't, 0:04:59.520 --> 0:05:01.440 you know, the we was so many auditions at that 0:05:01.560 --> 0:05:04.160 time in my life that it's weird that I remember it. 0:05:04.240 --> 0:05:06.520 But I remember going over there, and I remember it 0:05:06.600 --> 0:05:09.600 was sort of a last minute thing. You know. Usually 0:05:09.640 --> 0:05:12.320 actors are, you know, supposed to be told the night 0:05:12.360 --> 0:05:14.720 before so that they have at least a night with 0:05:14.760 --> 0:05:17.200 the material. But it was sort of one of those 0:05:17.200 --> 0:05:19.200 things where I think my agent called and said, oh, 0:05:19.240 --> 0:05:20.880 you know, we have this thing for you. They want 0:05:20.920 --> 0:05:23.040 you there at like a two o'clock today. It was 0:05:23.080 --> 0:05:25.279 like an afternoon thing. I had already been on a 0:05:25.279 --> 0:05:29.640 couple other auditions or something. I remember walking in, picking 0:05:29.720 --> 0:05:33.480 up the material, standing outside and working on it um 0:05:33.520 --> 0:05:36.400 and basically going in pretty cold and just doing it 0:05:36.760 --> 0:05:39.400 but liking it like right away. And what was funny 0:05:39.480 --> 0:05:44.680 was that Allison are our casting director. She had been 0:05:45.279 --> 0:05:48.280 I get Shell was also casting a pilot at the 0:05:48.360 --> 0:05:51.880 time that I had been in on the day before, 0:05:51.880 --> 0:05:54.719 and probably this is how this last minute audition happened, 0:05:54.800 --> 0:05:57.640 was probably through Allison, because I had been in for 0:05:57.800 --> 0:05:59.680 that and they were making a deal for me to 0:05:59.720 --> 0:06:03.000 come in to do a test for this other pilot. 0:06:03.880 --> 0:06:06.680 And so I went in. I read hold for the 0:06:06.720 --> 0:06:09.320 office pretty much pretty cold. But I also could, you know, 0:06:09.480 --> 0:06:11.240 just because I've been doing this as long as I 0:06:11.440 --> 0:06:14.280 as I have, you can really feel when the room 0:06:14.440 --> 0:06:17.400 is like buzzing with what you're doing, Like everybody was 0:06:17.440 --> 0:06:19.640 kind of riveted. It was ten Koppie and it was 0:06:20.200 --> 0:06:24.320 you know, Greg Daniels and um, I'm pretty sure Phillis 0:06:24.360 --> 0:06:29.159 was maybe there, but anyway, Allison for sure. And so yeah, 0:06:29.200 --> 0:06:31.480 I did it, and I remember everybody just kind of 0:06:31.520 --> 0:06:34.760 being I could tell they were just kind of like, hump, 0:06:34.839 --> 0:06:36.960 they were they were really liking, you know, liking what 0:06:37.040 --> 0:06:40.320 I did. And anyway, so the next I think it 0:06:40.400 --> 0:06:42.960 was like a couple of days later or the next 0:06:43.040 --> 0:06:46.760 day even, I went into test for this pilot and 0:06:46.839 --> 0:06:49.119 Allison came out you know where I was the waiting 0:06:49.200 --> 0:06:51.520 room and it was just me and she came out 0:06:51.520 --> 0:06:53.560 and she said hi, and I said hi, and she goes, 0:06:53.640 --> 0:06:56.640 you were fantastic in you know, in that audition for 0:06:56.839 --> 0:06:59.680 the Office. Now, remember the Office was a guest star 0:07:00.360 --> 0:07:03.200 possible reach character. That's not like just for people that 0:07:03.320 --> 0:07:05.360 don't know. That's a nice thing to get, but that's 0:07:05.360 --> 0:07:08.479 not like getting a series, like a starring role on 0:07:08.520 --> 0:07:11.000 a pilot that could turn into a series, because that's 0:07:11.040 --> 0:07:14.640 more money and that's you know, better for us as actors. Anyway, 0:07:14.680 --> 0:07:16.920 so I was, like I said to Alison, I was like, yeah, 0:07:16.920 --> 0:07:18.840 I said that was fun. I said, well, you don't 0:07:18.960 --> 0:07:20.920 I really liked it, Like maybe I'll get both, and 0:07:21.000 --> 0:07:23.560 she goes, uh, I really want you to get that one. 0:07:23.680 --> 0:07:25.440 I really want you to get the Office. And I 0:07:25.440 --> 0:07:29.480 thought to myself, hump, Okay, you know that's interesting. You know, 0:07:29.560 --> 0:07:31.920 she's a she's a she's a pro. She's been around 0:07:31.920 --> 0:07:35.160 a long time, and she knows something, you know, she 0:07:35.280 --> 0:07:37.040 knows like she could tell that. I think that the 0:07:37.080 --> 0:07:42.240 office was special, and so I basically just went in. 0:07:42.360 --> 0:07:44.320 I read for the other thing. I didn't end up 0:07:44.320 --> 0:07:47.200 getting it. The pilot did get made, it did not 0:07:47.400 --> 0:07:50.720 get picked up, and I ended up getting the office, 0:07:50.760 --> 0:07:56.600 and here we are. That's that is crazy. And when 0:07:56.600 --> 0:07:59.240 you were originally cast, you didn't think it was a 0:07:59.240 --> 0:08:01.160 big thing like it was. Maybe it was going to 0:08:01.240 --> 0:08:03.520 come back. Maybe, I mean, maybe the role would come back, 0:08:03.640 --> 0:08:07.360 but but you had no expectation for anything long term. 0:08:07.600 --> 0:08:09.720 I didn't. I mean, you know, as I said, I've 0:08:09.720 --> 0:08:11.520 been doing it so long that you just you get 0:08:11.520 --> 0:08:13.280 to where you kind of have a pretty fixed skin 0:08:13.480 --> 0:08:16.600 and you're pretty wary about things. And I mean I 0:08:16.600 --> 0:08:19.360 always tell everybody that I didn't even believe we were 0:08:19.400 --> 0:08:23.480 a hit. Um, even after we'd won the Emmy. I 0:08:23.520 --> 0:08:25.760 didn't believe we were a hit until we won the 0:08:25.840 --> 0:08:27.960 sag Award. And I had to walk around with that 0:08:28.720 --> 0:08:32.360 like fifty pound, you know, statue all night and the 0:08:32.440 --> 0:08:35.160 next morning I woke up and my bicep was so 0:08:35.160 --> 0:08:37.840 sore that I couldn't lift my arm. It was like, 0:08:38.040 --> 0:08:40.920 literally I needed physical proof. And then I was like, oh, 0:08:40.960 --> 0:08:42.920 maybe we are a hit. And it was I just 0:08:42.960 --> 0:08:45.319 think it's like hit me a lot later than anybody 0:08:45.320 --> 0:08:48.160 else in the cast, because I just was I had 0:08:48.200 --> 0:08:52.960 done so many things that were like semi successes or 0:08:53.640 --> 0:08:56.040 you know, I just didn't believe it, like I just 0:08:56.120 --> 0:09:01.400 didn't believe it right well. And and you know, you were, 0:09:02.480 --> 0:09:05.480 you know, you were the most experienced film and television 0:09:05.559 --> 0:09:08.920 actor certainly in the pilot. And so when you showed up, 0:09:09.520 --> 0:09:12.760 did you have any sort of first impression of the 0:09:12.800 --> 0:09:15.880 other people in the cast. I remember thinking that it 0:09:16.000 --> 0:09:19.000 was just really well cast. I remember just feeling like, 0:09:19.000 --> 0:09:22.560 oh my god, these are just great characters, you know, 0:09:22.640 --> 0:09:25.839 and I and I loved immediately. I loved working with Steve. 0:09:25.920 --> 0:09:28.960 I mean, I would say, because of my experience, you 0:09:29.040 --> 0:09:32.800 can really get a sense very very quickly of the 0:09:32.840 --> 0:09:36.520 actors that can that can play with you, and the 0:09:36.559 --> 0:09:40.920 actors that can't. And um, because all my stuff was 0:09:40.960 --> 0:09:44.080 with Steve in that first season, I really didn't work 0:09:44.080 --> 0:09:46.240 with you guys at all. Really, I mean I had 0:09:46.240 --> 0:09:48.800 no interaction with you, really decides just glancing at you 0:09:48.880 --> 0:09:52.640 and you're glancing at me. But but it was like 0:09:52.800 --> 0:09:55.559 it was like I was so relieved and so grateful 0:09:55.559 --> 0:09:59.959 and excited that whenever the cameras would roll, I felt 0:10:00.160 --> 0:10:03.679 Steve was very playful with me on camera as far 0:10:03.720 --> 0:10:07.480 as just his ability to you know, give and take 0:10:07.520 --> 0:10:09.360 and just kind of be really in the moment and 0:10:09.400 --> 0:10:13.160 not get thrown by any little new thing I might 0:10:13.200 --> 0:10:16.840 throw his way, Whereas sometimes you work with more inexperienced 0:10:16.880 --> 0:10:21.360 actors and you'll do it one way and they'll go, oh, 0:10:21.440 --> 0:10:23.360 you didn't do it like that, or they'll be like, oh, 0:10:23.440 --> 0:10:25.520 I wasn't expecting that because the last time you did 0:10:25.559 --> 0:10:28.280 it more like this, you know, And that always just 0:10:28.400 --> 0:10:30.520 kisses me off so much, because I'm always like, oh 0:10:30.600 --> 0:10:33.480 my god, like, really, are you kidding me? We can't 0:10:33.480 --> 0:10:35.960 do it like, we can't do it different and have 0:10:36.120 --> 0:10:37.960 fun and all and try a new thing, you know. 0:10:38.440 --> 0:10:40.840 But Steve was always just like, you know, just so 0:10:40.960 --> 0:10:43.400 ready with the bat, you know, to hit the ball 0:10:43.440 --> 0:10:46.120 however it came, and I think we both had a 0:10:46.120 --> 0:10:48.120 lot of fun with that. I mean, I would hope 0:10:48.120 --> 0:10:50.000 he would say that he did. I certainly had a 0:10:50.000 --> 0:10:53.400 great time working with him, right, I mean, It's funny 0:10:53.440 --> 0:10:57.240 because I just started thinking about how so much, yes, 0:10:57.320 --> 0:11:00.280 as you said, especially early on, but really throughout the show, 0:11:00.760 --> 0:11:04.080 how connected you were with Steve, and how so much 0:11:04.160 --> 0:11:07.520 almost unlike most of the rest of the show, you 0:11:07.520 --> 0:11:11.040 guys played one on one quite a bit, so most 0:11:11.080 --> 0:11:14.840 of your experience wasn't really with the entire ensemble, again, 0:11:14.960 --> 0:11:18.079 particularly early on, but really with Steve. Yeah, yeah, I 0:11:18.160 --> 0:11:20.839 really was, And that was very interesting. Yeah, that was 0:11:20.960 --> 0:11:23.400 very interesting, I felt, you know, and I felt that 0:11:23.679 --> 0:11:26.920 I think even as time went on, there was sort 0:11:26.920 --> 0:11:29.760 of a sense of not belonging there for a long 0:11:29.760 --> 0:11:31.800 long time. Really, I don't think I ever felt like 0:11:31.840 --> 0:11:36.680 I belonged really, but I think that's probably by virtue 0:11:36.720 --> 0:11:39.720 of the of the way that it was written. But 0:11:39.760 --> 0:11:41.840 I that's not to say that I didn't enjoy everybody 0:11:41.840 --> 0:11:44.720 and love everybody and feel like everybody you know, enjoyed me. 0:11:44.880 --> 0:11:47.160 I did. I don't know. I just felt like the 0:11:47.200 --> 0:11:49.760 little like the team, the clan, like you guys were 0:11:49.800 --> 0:11:53.320 in the office every day together, um, you know, and 0:11:53.440 --> 0:11:55.480 I wasn't. I would pop in and out, and when 0:11:55.480 --> 0:11:57.760 I did, it was always it was mostly that kind 0:11:57.760 --> 0:12:01.040 of more private things, which was maybe by design because 0:12:01.679 --> 0:12:05.000 Yan is kind of an outsider, right. I Mean the 0:12:05.040 --> 0:12:07.040 other thing that that occurred to me is, you know, 0:12:07.120 --> 0:12:10.160 we've done a lot of conversation about you know, the 0:12:10.240 --> 0:12:13.800 cast of this show and how different it was at 0:12:13.920 --> 0:12:17.800 this time and place specifically that our show started, you know, 0:12:17.840 --> 0:12:20.000 to break the mold, and they really sort of leaned 0:12:20.080 --> 0:12:23.760 into these are real, ordinary people who are working in 0:12:23.800 --> 0:12:28.120 an office specifically in Scranton, Pennsylvania. And it felt like 0:12:28.240 --> 0:12:32.640 to me that you, you and your character though like 0:12:32.720 --> 0:12:36.600 maybe it was you being like a New York person, 0:12:36.720 --> 0:12:39.959 right like you always seemed and looked felt a little 0:12:39.960 --> 0:12:43.560 more put together, a little more you know, which really 0:12:43.600 --> 0:12:46.240 contrasted in a way with with everyone else who was 0:12:46.400 --> 0:12:49.960 who was in the office, right right, Yeah, I think 0:12:50.000 --> 0:12:52.480 that's true. And I and I remember that that was 0:12:52.559 --> 0:12:56.680 even somewhat of a of a of a struggle with Greg. 0:12:56.720 --> 0:13:00.400 I remember Greg Daniels Um talking a little bit about that, 0:13:00.720 --> 0:13:03.600 even with me and and and with the costume designer 0:13:03.800 --> 0:13:07.080 and um, with the makeup and hair people. You know, 0:13:07.200 --> 0:13:10.199 he used to say a lot, you know, like make 0:13:10.200 --> 0:13:12.720 sure she's not too pretty, make sure she's not you know, 0:13:13.360 --> 0:13:17.280 like don't dress her too holid you know, take you know, 0:13:17.400 --> 0:13:20.160 take the makeup down a little or or he sort 0:13:20.200 --> 0:13:24.000 of and he grappled with, you know, why would why 0:13:24.040 --> 0:13:27.480 would Michael be with someone that looked like and felt 0:13:27.520 --> 0:13:30.640 like jan Like, how would he get someone like her? 0:13:31.360 --> 0:13:33.160 And that was like, that was I just think a 0:13:33.280 --> 0:13:37.120 thing on his radar all the time, because he really 0:13:37.120 --> 0:13:39.840 wanted it to feel you know, really real and really 0:13:40.200 --> 0:13:43.320 documentary and really like we were really peeking in on 0:13:43.400 --> 0:13:46.120 this um these people's lives. And I think I think 0:13:46.160 --> 0:13:47.960 that was just always a thing for him, and he 0:13:48.000 --> 0:13:50.080 was always tracking that, and he would talk to me 0:13:50.160 --> 0:13:52.800 about that, and you always wanted to know what I 0:13:52.880 --> 0:13:55.720 thought about that? Why would she be attracted to someone 0:13:55.760 --> 0:13:58.520 like that? And and I had lots of reasons, you know, 0:13:58.600 --> 0:14:00.320 I I it for me, it was the need to 0:14:00.360 --> 0:14:02.760 figure that out. But but that's my job, you know, 0:14:02.800 --> 0:14:04.960 that's part of my job as an actor and certainly 0:14:05.000 --> 0:14:07.080 as a working actor for as long as I was. 0:14:07.520 --> 0:14:09.520 You have to find a way to win your mind, 0:14:09.679 --> 0:14:13.720 justify kind of anything that that's thrown at you. So 0:14:13.760 --> 0:14:16.439 I had gotten very good at at knowing how to 0:14:17.000 --> 0:14:21.640 how to make something that seems almost unfathomable, you know, real, 0:14:42.320 --> 0:14:44.360 what do you think Jan did see and Michael. I 0:14:44.400 --> 0:14:47.360 feel like Jan was um. You know, she was really 0:14:47.520 --> 0:14:50.360 brought up in a Mann's world. I think she became 0:14:50.880 --> 0:14:56.520 more masculine in her affects and her behavior than she 0:14:56.640 --> 0:15:01.000 actually was inside and I out like, you know, some 0:15:01.160 --> 0:15:04.520 part of her was really sort of sad about the 0:15:04.640 --> 0:15:08.840 loss of her femininity. And I feel like that that 0:15:09.160 --> 0:15:15.040 Michael's kind of puppy like adoration of her um made 0:15:15.040 --> 0:15:18.920 her feel more feminine and more womanly and more more 0:15:19.000 --> 0:15:23.720 like she could just be, you know, softened softer with him. 0:15:23.760 --> 0:15:26.200 And I think she wasn't. I don't think she was 0:15:26.320 --> 0:15:29.760 softer with him on the outside. I just think inside 0:15:30.760 --> 0:15:35.040 his sort of like he just wouldn't stop coming after her, 0:15:35.760 --> 0:15:39.120 even when she was a total, you know, bitch to him. 0:15:39.960 --> 0:15:42.560 I think that I think that just made her feel 0:15:43.640 --> 0:15:48.440 loved and like she could let down a little bit 0:15:48.480 --> 0:15:52.760 of that masculine guard that she had learned, you know, 0:15:52.840 --> 0:15:55.400 that learned behavior. Right. Do you think that there was 0:15:55.440 --> 0:15:58.880 real love there between Michael and Jan, Yeah, I do. 0:15:59.080 --> 0:16:03.120 I think it was completely dysfunctional, but I do, Yeah, 0:16:03.200 --> 0:16:06.400 I do. I think she I think she didn't even 0:16:06.440 --> 0:16:09.440 know that she was in love with him. I think 0:16:09.480 --> 0:16:16.640 she was right. Yeah, there's um, it's interesting. We I've 0:16:16.680 --> 0:16:18.840 been doing a lot of talking about sort of michael 0:16:18.960 --> 0:16:22.600 search for family and his need and desire to be 0:16:22.680 --> 0:16:28.760 loved and you know, for him, his landing the boss, 0:16:28.880 --> 0:16:33.280 right Jan, the sophisticate from New York, right like that 0:16:33.440 --> 0:16:36.240 for him is a huge win. And I think, you know, 0:16:36.400 --> 0:16:41.400 raises himself up in his own mind. Um, but I 0:16:41.440 --> 0:16:43.920 think it was really well said, like that she was searching, 0:16:44.280 --> 0:16:46.520 you know, she was she was coming from a specific 0:16:46.520 --> 0:16:50.920 culture and maybe wanting something different for herself. Yeah. I 0:16:50.920 --> 0:16:53.680 mean I think she just was really focused on climbing 0:16:53.680 --> 0:16:58.000 that corporate ladder and forgot about her her need for 0:16:58.280 --> 0:17:01.760 you know, companionship. And I think he was all wrong 0:17:01.800 --> 0:17:04.919 in every way and there was something that was like 0:17:05.240 --> 0:17:09.280 und undeniably attractive about that for her. I think she 0:17:09.400 --> 0:17:11.560 just needed a little bit of shaking up and sort 0:17:11.600 --> 0:17:14.000 of that that adoration that he had of her, Like 0:17:14.119 --> 0:17:18.359 just he just was so proud of of having sex 0:17:18.400 --> 0:17:21.720 with her, He was so proud of having a relationship 0:17:21.760 --> 0:17:24.480 with her, and she was just like, you are so stupid. 0:17:24.520 --> 0:17:30.040 But but I like that he kind of liked being 0:17:30.119 --> 0:17:33.640 his trophy, even though you know she found him ridiculous. 0:17:33.680 --> 0:17:36.280 I think do you think do you think that she 0:17:36.359 --> 0:17:39.680 had gotten to a point where she was lowering her standards? Yeah, 0:17:39.680 --> 0:17:42.040 I don't think she had standards. I think she would have. 0:17:42.160 --> 0:17:45.720 I just don't literally, I literally don't think she was thinking. 0:17:46.320 --> 0:17:48.720 I think she forgot about her love life. I think 0:17:48.720 --> 0:17:52.520 she probably you know, had had sort of sex, very 0:17:52.560 --> 0:17:56.640 disconnected sex with like, you know, different executives that she'd 0:17:56.680 --> 0:17:59.640 worked with. But I don't feel like she really had 0:18:00.880 --> 0:18:06.080 a real relationship with anybody that was really meaningful until Michael. 0:18:06.119 --> 0:18:09.960 And I think that my instinct is that, like, her 0:18:09.960 --> 0:18:15.160 relationship with her father was probably pretty um like disconnected. 0:18:15.440 --> 0:18:17.679 I mean, I think that Greg would say that that 0:18:17.840 --> 0:18:19.639 she had lowered her standards. I don't think it was 0:18:19.680 --> 0:18:22.880 really about standards. I think she just was taken with 0:18:23.000 --> 0:18:26.679 his um you know, Let's say Steve's you know, description 0:18:26.720 --> 0:18:28.400 of that would be that it was more like an 0:18:28.400 --> 0:18:31.600 ego phil. I don't know. I don't know what Steve 0:18:31.640 --> 0:18:34.119 would say as far as if that was Michael's ego 0:18:34.240 --> 0:18:36.359 phill to be with Jan or if he really was 0:18:36.400 --> 0:18:38.920 crazy for her. But I think the way that Jan 0:18:39.040 --> 0:18:41.439 read it was like Jesus I can like keep you know, 0:18:41.560 --> 0:18:45.399 beating this dead horse and it keeps fun like it 0:18:45.520 --> 0:18:48.840 makes her feel loved, it makes her feel worthy. It's 0:18:48.880 --> 0:18:52.720 just a weird phenomenon, right. I think Jan definitely, you know, 0:18:52.840 --> 0:18:54.760 liked it that she could curl up in his arms 0:18:54.760 --> 0:18:57.639 and you know, on the on the bench on the 0:18:57.680 --> 0:19:01.879 bottom of the bed where she put him. She could 0:19:01.920 --> 0:19:04.639 cry and she could be like, I'm sorry, and he 0:19:04.720 --> 0:19:07.119 probably could be like, oh it was it was nothing. 0:19:07.119 --> 0:19:09.000 I don't even know what you're saying sorry for, you 0:19:09.040 --> 0:19:14.840 know what I mean. What do you think that their relationship, 0:19:15.320 --> 0:19:18.159 What do you think that it added or gave to 0:19:18.240 --> 0:19:21.440 the to the show overall? Well, I think it gave. 0:19:21.560 --> 0:19:25.440 It gave him a kind of, um like a sexual 0:19:25.520 --> 0:19:28.719 play that I don't think he would have had, uh 0:19:28.960 --> 0:19:32.119 necessarily without it. And you know, it was really something 0:19:32.160 --> 0:19:35.560 that Steve and and I and and Greg Daniels noticed 0:19:35.680 --> 0:19:39.439 in the pilot. I remember being at lunch with with 0:19:39.760 --> 0:19:41.800 all of us, the three of us were having lunch together, 0:19:42.520 --> 0:19:46.520 and I remember Steve and I and Greg all kind 0:19:46.520 --> 0:19:48.879 of saying, you know, there's some kind of an interesting 0:19:49.000 --> 0:19:53.760 spark between Michael and Jan, like there's something about them, 0:19:53.800 --> 0:19:55.879 and we were all like, Yeah, if we get an opportunity, 0:19:55.920 --> 0:19:58.239 if we get picked up, we should really have them 0:19:58.280 --> 0:20:00.760 hook up sometime at a convention or something. And we 0:20:00.760 --> 0:20:03.960 were all laughing about this idea that maybe we'd get 0:20:03.960 --> 0:20:07.119 to have them, you know, have some kind of an affair. 0:20:07.600 --> 0:20:11.000 So I think there was just the titilation that it 0:20:11.119 --> 0:20:13.359 added to the show in the same way that you know, 0:20:13.400 --> 0:20:15.600 the Pam and Jim love story had a little bit 0:20:15.600 --> 0:20:18.000 of tittilation to it, and you know, and there were 0:20:18.000 --> 0:20:20.960 other stories that you know, Dwight and Angela, you know, 0:20:21.000 --> 0:20:23.280 there were things that all happened over time, and I 0:20:23.320 --> 0:20:27.639 think that created at fun sort of titulation. And and 0:20:27.680 --> 0:20:31.560 also because because the Michael and Jan's story was like 0:20:32.040 --> 0:20:34.760 there was something really right about it, but also something 0:20:34.840 --> 0:20:37.800 so wrong. It's just it's just, you know, it's just 0:20:37.880 --> 0:20:41.359 it's kind of delicious, right. How much input did you 0:20:41.440 --> 0:20:46.640 have on Jan with Greg or the writers? Um? I mean, 0:20:46.680 --> 0:20:48.720 I think I do think it was a dance. I mean, 0:20:48.800 --> 0:20:52.680 Larry Wilmore early on really loved to write Jan, and 0:20:52.760 --> 0:20:57.280 he and I became friends, were still friends. Um, So 0:20:57.320 --> 0:21:01.040 we used to talk about Jam a lot over lunch 0:21:01.080 --> 0:21:03.560 and stuff. Greg and I talked about Jan a lot, 0:21:05.040 --> 0:21:08.760 especially as seasons went on. You know, Um, Greg was 0:21:08.760 --> 0:21:11.440 always curious about what I thought about you know what, 0:21:11.480 --> 0:21:15.920 I how I felt she might react to this or that. Um, 0:21:16.119 --> 0:21:18.560 that was really nice. And I would say for me again, 0:21:18.760 --> 0:21:21.000 you know, just referring back to how long I've been 0:21:21.000 --> 0:21:24.720 in the business, that was my first experience where writers 0:21:24.800 --> 0:21:31.400 were really interested and collaborative in television. Uh, And so 0:21:31.520 --> 0:21:36.680 Greg really like that really changed for me just sort 0:21:36.720 --> 0:21:39.680 of everything that came after that, you know, just the 0:21:40.080 --> 0:21:43.040 feeling of that. And I I'm not sure I think 0:21:43.080 --> 0:21:47.040 Greg was a big, big part of changing the way 0:21:47.640 --> 0:21:53.120 writers really are on sets, on television sets. I really 0:21:53.160 --> 0:21:55.359 do think he was kind of a maverick and a 0:21:55.480 --> 0:21:59.280 leader in that, certainly for for my experience, which was 0:21:59.440 --> 0:22:01.159 you know, he the at that time. I've had a 0:22:01.160 --> 0:22:05.400 lot of experience, and I just never had writers interacting 0:22:05.440 --> 0:22:08.359 on such an intimate way with the actors and just 0:22:08.400 --> 0:22:11.040 being on set as much as they were being, you know, 0:22:11.080 --> 0:22:15.240 being so involved and so hands on and really wanting 0:22:15.280 --> 0:22:17.800 to hear from all of us. I loved that. Gosh, 0:22:17.880 --> 0:22:20.440 that was just a revelation for me, right, I mean, 0:22:20.520 --> 0:22:24.080 often on other shows, like writers are on set to 0:22:24.280 --> 0:22:27.560 really oversee and make sure that the words are being 0:22:27.600 --> 0:22:32.760 said right or said correctly right. But you know, I 0:22:32.480 --> 0:22:36.919 I agree, I think here it was really about a 0:22:36.960 --> 0:22:41.320 collaboration and finding the best answers that we could to, 0:22:41.960 --> 0:22:44.320 you know, to make something funny or you know, to 0:22:44.359 --> 0:22:47.600 make it work better than it really was collaborative. So 0:22:47.640 --> 0:22:50.720 that was different for you. Greg was different for you. Yeah. Yeah, 0:22:50.760 --> 0:22:54.000 and all the writers and and um, I mean Mindy 0:22:54.160 --> 0:22:57.439 Mindy Kaley wrote that, you know, wrote that episode of 0:22:57.480 --> 0:23:01.080 me singing the baby to the baby because I had 0:23:01.119 --> 0:23:04.040 just done Lame is on on at the Hollywood Bowl 0:23:04.119 --> 0:23:06.120 and she was so blown away that I had done 0:23:06.160 --> 0:23:08.000