Speaker 1: Well, well, well, they said they couldn't be done. I
Speaker 1: said they couldn't be done. It's hard, it couldn't be done.
Speaker 1: It's fine. It's fine because guess what, it's episode one
Speaker 1: oh two and the Celtics just keep on winning. The
Speaker 1: Thunder are the second hottest team in the league. And
Speaker 1: don't even ask about our Lakers right now. Just don't
Speaker 1: about that. Not my Lakers couldn't be me. I don't
Speaker 1: know what more and Princes is doing, but anyway, we'll
Speaker 1: take a trip around the league and discuss the state
Speaker 1: of the New York k Mickrobockers with Bleacher Reports damn
Speaker 1: BA Valley on today's episode. I'm Miles Gray and I'm
Speaker 1: Jack O'Brien and this is my mile check comn.
Speaker 2: Sorry guy, looks, okay, there you.
Speaker 1: Go, driving Spinny the five is gonna try another three, mister.
Speaker 1: Look God damp a Valley riter for Bleat Tripport, host
Speaker 1: of Hardwood Knocks podcast, Welcome back for your fourth or
Speaker 1: fifth appearance.
Speaker 3: I feel like on the show one of our one
Speaker 3: of our favorite guests. Man, yeah, get the jacket, get
Speaker 3: the jacket out. Yah, yeah, yeah, we got to get
Speaker 3: up a jacket for sure.
Speaker 2: We got to get a jacket. How you doing.
Speaker 4: I'm excited that you guys keep making terrible decisions and
Speaker 4: bringing me back on. So it's always a pleasure to
Speaker 4: be invited back. And I'm currently admiring in the background.
Speaker 4: I never why have I never seen the Woo York
Speaker 4: Next jersey behind you before?
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, that's a little little mashup of my favorite
Speaker 1: things obviously as a as a big Wu Tang fan
Speaker 1: and the Knicks general colorway. I had to I had
Speaker 1: to cop that. I got that at a during NBA
Speaker 1: Con actually when we were there in the summer, because
Speaker 1: they had they had those like wrap mashup jerseys, and
Speaker 1: I was like, yep, yep, that's all me, that's all me.
Speaker 3: That's an increase in the back on the back, thirty
Speaker 3: six shoul In. It's a it's like, it's got the
Speaker 3: whole thing.
Speaker 1: It's got the whole thing, from about thirty six Chambers
Speaker 1: to Mitchell and nets joint, you know. So that's it's
Speaker 1: a fish. It's a fish. You know, wouldn't be rocking
Speaker 1: some some fake gear over here. But yeah, and I
Speaker 1: had to put it.
Speaker 3: I put it front and center because obviously it's time
Speaker 3: to talk to.
Speaker 2: Knicks Nick thirty six wins by the time people are
Speaker 2: listening to this, Yeah, well the ten plan is thirty
Speaker 2: six Chambers my Knicks current three on the year over
Speaker 2: the last ten.
Speaker 1: Yeah, what what? Damn?
Speaker 2: What?
Speaker 1: Why is Jalen Brunson not in like the real MVP
Speaker 1: conversation in any like meaningful way? You know?
Speaker 4: I really think it's because that Jokic and Shay and
Speaker 4: Luca have just been otherworldly on a different level.
Speaker 1: Hard to get in there.
Speaker 3: Huh.
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's just I mean, he might.
Speaker 4: I think he has a chance to finish fifth on
Speaker 4: some ballots, right and depending on where the Nicks finished
Speaker 4: with their seating, especially like now you have the anecdotal
Speaker 4: bump which everyone does care about of oh Julius Randall
Speaker 4: miss all this time, they didn't have Mitchell Robinson and
Speaker 4: OG's out.
Speaker 5: But as you kind of you guys.
Speaker 4: Mentioned the top of this four and six in their
Speaker 4: last ten, they are very banged up, including Jon Brunton
Speaker 4: isn't playing against the Pelicans on Tuesday night.
Speaker 3: So yeah, what was that?
Speaker 1: Is like a clavigal sensitivity modulation.
Speaker 3: I had not seen that kind of assessment before.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I have no idea I didn't even know that
Speaker 4: he was necessarily dealing with it or when it happened.
Speaker 4: So yeah, I mean, and they're just now they're missing
Speaker 4: four starters like a're just dealing with injuries that because
Speaker 4: people forget that Mitchell Robinson exists.
Speaker 5: And there's a chance that I don't.
Speaker 4: Know if you guys saw, but Tim's was talking about
Speaker 4: like Julius Randall might actually still need surgery and like
Speaker 4: his season, they're trying to bring him back, but the
Speaker 4: season could be over and even if he does come
Speaker 4: back because of the shoulder injury.
Speaker 5: And like how like shoulders are just fickle, what.
Speaker 4: Does he look like like when he's trying to play
Speaker 4: through a shoulder injury that may eventually need to be
Speaker 4: surgically repaired over the offseason. That's gonna be The Knicks
Speaker 4: looks so good on paper now because the moves they've made.
Speaker 4: I'm just curious whether we're ever gonna see the full
Speaker 4: product before this out.
Speaker 1: Yeah, because yeah, he, like Julius Randall has said, like
Speaker 1: I want to play through the pain. I don't want
Speaker 1: to get surgery. I feel what's our feeling on that
Speaker 1: kind of mindset when it comes to those kinds of injuries,
Speaker 1: Like what's what's the over under on, like successfully playing
Speaker 1: through the injury without exacerbating it to the point where
Speaker 1: you're like, man, I should have just got the surgery.
Speaker 1: I should have just waited.
Speaker 2: P I can tell you is what I'd do. I'd
Speaker 2: play through it because I'm tough. There you go, Okay, yeah,
Speaker 2: because I mean you see how much these guys are paid.
Speaker 4: Come on, Here's here's the thing, Jack, those those checks
Speaker 4: are clear in either way. Yeah, I'm prioritizing my long
Speaker 4: term health here right. Yeah, he's got a new contract
Speaker 4: that's gonna have to come up soon. So if it
Speaker 4: needs surgery, I just and and if you're hurt, isn't
Speaker 4: there more of a chance of you just damaging your
Speaker 4: value by playing poorly? And yet another postseason where I
Speaker 4: had built in excuses where it's, oh, you were injured,
Speaker 4: oh r J. Barrett was our second offensive option or whatever.
Speaker 4: And now you're on an actual good team with pretty
Speaker 4: lofty expectations at this point, if I'm Julius and like,
Speaker 4: I understand the mindset, and I'm not in the locker
Speaker 4: room he wants to beat up for his teammates and
Speaker 4: this and that, But if it needs surgery, Like, I'm
Speaker 4: not trying to I'm not trying to play through it.
Speaker 4: I'm going under the knife and I'm trying to heal
Speaker 4: up as soon as possible.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 3: Do you want to be able to high five your kids?
Speaker 1: You know?
Speaker 6: Right?
Speaker 5: Right?
Speaker 1: You don't want things like.
Speaker 5: I want to be able to shigne my next contract without.
Speaker 1: Any pain, right right, exactly, without like in a cast
Speaker 1: and using all my like rib rotator like hip rotation
Speaker 1: to do a signature.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean the I mean with Julius randall out,
Speaker 3: I mean.
Speaker 1: Josh hart Man, He's what'd you think of that? What'd
Speaker 1: you think of that? The Detroit Pistons game, because that,
Speaker 1: you know, that ended on a bit of a controversial
Speaker 1: note with Josh hart winning it at the end and
Speaker 1: some fouls.
Speaker 4: I don't know how they missed that call, but I'm
Speaker 4: sure you guys throw The entire twenty seconds that led
Speaker 4: up to that point was just so.
Speaker 2: Yeah, they didn't cohe it.
Speaker 5: I don't know, but just.
Speaker 4: When you go back and watch the replay, you've literally
Speaker 4: Dante DiVincenzo taking out like two knees.
Speaker 5: Not even just one. It's like you even dual.
Speaker 4: Towarn A cls on that play, and I always wonder,
Speaker 4: I mean, the Pistons, they probably won't be the worst
Speaker 4: team in NBA history, Like if they just want another
Speaker 4: epic losing streak at the game that they probably should
Speaker 4: have won it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, road that, I feel like there were some questionable
Speaker 2: calls at the end because that Paolo move was I've
Speaker 2: heard people make the argument that it wasn't a travel.
Speaker 2: That argument has not made sense to me as of, Yeah,
Speaker 2: but wasn't that wasn't that against Detroit the Polo game winner?
Speaker 1: Or about the travel?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I think so.
Speaker 5: Their explanation was really funny on that too.
Speaker 4: It was just like they just basically recited what happened,
Speaker 4: and just like it didn't provide any clarity on why.
Speaker 2: He was gathering first, so they kind of gathered and
Speaker 2: then took a step and then that one he moved
Speaker 2: that foot, but the other foot. But just a couple
Speaker 2: of tough breaks for the Pistons who are trying to
Speaker 2: avoid ignanimity. Yeah, on the other side of things, Oh.
Speaker 1: Wait, quick question, I've heard I have a friend who's
Speaker 1: a Knicks fan and he's like Jalen Brunson Man like
Speaker 1: he's in the goat conversation for the Knicks. I'm telling you,
Speaker 1: I love this guy.
Speaker 2: I love this guy.
Speaker 3: I'm pretty sure I thought Clyde Frazier.
Speaker 1: Uh, I've seen as as y'all's goat. But where where
Speaker 1: do you?
Speaker 6: Where do you?
Speaker 1: Where is Jalen Brunson. Where's he in the mix in
Speaker 1: terms of storied Nick or Bocker players?
Speaker 5: Man, I mean he's even played two full seasons there. Yeah, Like,
Speaker 5: I just I don't even know where.
Speaker 4: Like, I think you could have a discussion where it's
Speaker 4: when we look back, is there a chance that Jalen
Speaker 4: Brunson was a better nick than Carmelo Anthony?
Speaker 2: Right, Myles's friend is five years old. So that's important
Speaker 2: for you, uh, for context, for all purposes. If he's
Speaker 2: able to take them to a title, uh, take them
Speaker 2: to a couple of titles over the next you know,
Speaker 2: during his career retire, become the most entertaining broadcaster in
Speaker 2: the history of New York Knicks basketball. So making up
Speaker 2: write a book about how to be Cool where he
Speaker 2: explains how to catch flies with your hand and then
Speaker 2: shake them up and then release them. Then I think
Speaker 2: we can start having the conversation about him, the Clyde Fraser.
Speaker 2: There was a there was a report on like the
Speaker 2: various phrases, the Clyde Fraser is averaging this season, and
Speaker 2: I was really disappointed that spinning and winning was not
Speaker 2: on there. Like spinning and winning, I guess has fallen
Speaker 2: out of the rotation. That's my favorite, I think.
Speaker 5: I mean, that's actually shocking.
Speaker 4: But I will say him calling fewer games probably hurts.
Speaker 2: Average usage per game. And we've got a dishing and
Speaker 2: swishing at one point two per game. Yeah, see the
Speaker 2: ball ser man. I mean that's just something that people
Speaker 2: say I needed to rhyme to be an official client frasierism,
Speaker 2: moving and grooving, posting and toasting. Is he wheeling and dealing?
Speaker 2: That's not his slicing and dicing? I remember hacking and
Speaker 2: whacking was No, he's we're down at point five to
Speaker 2: seven a game, stumbling and bumbling. That's not necessarily his.
Speaker 2: But the at the very bottom of the list, this
Speaker 2: one couldn't be more Walt Fraser bounding and astounding. Oh
Speaker 2: that's okay, Clyde. Yeah, bounding and spinning and winning was
Speaker 2: oh man, such a such a genius. And then when
Speaker 2: he would throw it. Is he on the end?
Speaker 1: Right?
Speaker 2: Is this the iambic pentameter? But what a man? True
Speaker 2: classic shout out to my roommate in New York at
Speaker 2: the time, Sean and I would just sit there and
Speaker 2: watch every next game and just be like, is he
Speaker 2: it's anybody else seeing this guy's.
Speaker 3: Coming from outer space with these these lines?
Speaker 5: Yeah, more of the story's he's better than Jalen Brunson.
Speaker 1: There you go, easy well, And I think this is
Speaker 1: also coming from a place as someone who just anytime
Speaker 1: the Knicks start doing well, like his circuits get fried
Speaker 1: and he's like, dude, this is it and it's like
Speaker 1: glensanity man, And I was like, easy, easy, easy, easy.
Speaker 3: Let's take it one. Let's take it a year at
Speaker 3: a time.
Speaker 5: Can you even imagine the inflammatory things that will be
Speaker 5: said when whoever the best player is on the Knicks
Speaker 5: when they end their like five decade championship drought, Like,
Speaker 5: the stuff that's going to be said about the best
Speaker 5: guy on that team is.
Speaker 3: Just to be wild, astounding and bounding.
Speaker 2: All right, let's take a quick break and we'll come back,
Speaker 2: and we are going to talk about the Celtics. Honest, Historically,
Speaker 2: great Celtics team. I think we have to, we have
Speaker 2: to acknowledge it.
Speaker 6: We'll be right back, and we're back.
Speaker 1: We're back.
Speaker 2: I entered the season thinking it was Denver versus the field,
Speaker 2: starting to feel like it is more and more taking
Speaker 2: nothing away from Denver. I think they're still, you know,
Speaker 2: the most likely to come out of the West. The
Speaker 2: Celtics are the tenth best. They have the tenth best
Speaker 2: net rating in NBA history. All of those teams except
Speaker 2: for two, won the NBA Championship, and one of them
Speaker 2: was the twenty fifteen sixteen Warriors. And those were teams that,
Speaker 2: like Lebron beat in the finals, like at his at
Speaker 2: the peak of his powers. They're like historically great right
Speaker 2: in the net rating.
Speaker 3: And the teams that didn't do it were Lebron. James
Speaker 3: defeated them.
Speaker 2: Yes, Lebron. The teams that were in the top ten
Speaker 2: and didn't win the title, everybody else in that top
Speaker 2: ten boll won the championship for the Laker.
Speaker 1: This is I'm actually liking what I'm hearing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, this is great.
Speaker 1: This is great.
Speaker 2: But I'm currently at a position, you know, as a
Speaker 2: you know, fan of the league, fan of the Sixers,
Speaker 2: but you know, we're kind of on a break, and
Speaker 2: then fan of like whoever the Celtics are playing, I'm
Speaker 2: currently rooting for Denver to win so that they can
Speaker 2: get home court, like on the off chance that they
Speaker 2: can win enough games to catch up to the Celtics.
Speaker 2: But the Celtics are. They're on pace for a sixty
Speaker 2: five win season. They like they're nine and one over
Speaker 2: the last ten. I think they're eight in front of
Speaker 2: like the second place team. They're just running away with it.
Speaker 2: Third in defensive efficiency, highest point differential twenty six and
Speaker 2: three at home, ten games over five hundred on the
Speaker 2: road so far, just destroying everybody. I don't know that
Speaker 2: anyone in the East matches up well with them.
Speaker 1: No, I mean when you look at their their record
Speaker 1: against Eastern Conference teams, if they win against the Sixers
Speaker 1: as of this recording, they will have gone a calendar
Speaker 1: a full calendar year without a home conference loss.
Speaker 5: Yeah, oh wow, I did not know that.
Speaker 1: That's I guess.
Speaker 3: That's cool for them.
Speaker 1: But I mean, like, the one thing I'm curious about
Speaker 1: too is just talking about like MVP stuff. What Tatum
Speaker 1: is like fifth like on the ladder and yeah, like
Speaker 1: but everyone's just sort of like what what Like a
Speaker 1: lot of people like what's it kind of take? And
Speaker 1: I think I get there's always like, well what about
Speaker 1: the best player on the best team, But I don't think.
Speaker 3: It's that simple anymore.
Speaker 2: Yeah, their team is absolutely stacked. Like I feel like
Speaker 2: Brad Stevens deserves, you know, consideration for Executive of the Year,
Speaker 2: like for sure, but I didn't. I feel like they're
Speaker 2: just really They've added two pieces that were like apparently
Speaker 2: like I didn't realize this, but were exactly what they needed, right,
Speaker 2: I mean, Holliday add a sense. Yeah, I wasn't catching
Speaker 2: all his games before.
Speaker 4: I was not high on the South this coming into
Speaker 4: this season. I think they might have been the team
Speaker 4: I was most wrong about this year. I thought the
Speaker 4: offense was gonna be at a playmaking deficit, and you
Speaker 4: just have Derek White and Drew Holliday, the stuff that
Speaker 4: you're able to do without Horford Porzing has been way
Speaker 4: healthier than I thought he's going to be. He's been
Speaker 4: able to adjust this kind of his role where you're
Speaker 4: plug and play but we'll let you punish some mismatches
Speaker 4: really well, and what they've done defensively is just absolutely
Speaker 4: ruined lives and Derek White, he's not gonna win because
Speaker 4: Rudy Gobert exists, but like he probably should be second
Speaker 4: or third on the defensive Player of the Year ballot
Speaker 4: when you look at just the defensive workload he shoulders
Speaker 4: and you guys mentioned and how just terrifying they are.
Speaker 4: There's not I have the Nuggets still winning the title,
Speaker 4: but like there's no argument that the Celtics have the
Speaker 4: best top six in basketball. Like you just look at
Speaker 4: their starting five and then Al Horford, who's still just
Speaker 4: doing things at his age coming off the bench, and
Speaker 4: there's like some questions about some of the other guys,
Speaker 4: but you can piece meal like a seventh, eighth, ninth
Speaker 4: man rotation together pretty easily when you look at all
Speaker 4: the options that are on the dead, like even getting
Speaker 4: Xavier Tilmut at the trade, and like that's just absolutely
Speaker 4: massive for them. And so I was so wrong, And
Speaker 4: there's no good argument I think right now for to
Speaker 4: say why they wouldn't win the title or at least
Speaker 4: come out of the East.
Speaker 6: Uh.
Speaker 4: But I do really just wonder what their offense will
Speaker 4: look like come playoff time. They've cleaned up a lot
Speaker 4: of their crunch time issues this year, but they're still
Speaker 4: just like they don't have a ton of like above
Speaker 4: average floor generalship on this team, Like Drew Holliday's not
Speaker 4: that guy? Why it's not that guy? I think the
Speaker 4: thing that is keeping Tatum out of the tippy top
Speaker 4: of the MVP discussion is one, he's not going to
Speaker 4: shoulder the same level of defensive workload as a Yiannis
Speaker 4: just because you have a Derek White, you have a
Speaker 4: Drew Holliday on your team, but also just you're not
Speaker 4: going to be the same level of playmaker as Shay
Speaker 4: Jokic Luca of course. And is that a function of
Speaker 4: the roster or the limitations of his game. I think
Speaker 4: it's more so it's about the roster, but we've seen
Speaker 4: it in the playoffs. It can be a limitation of
Speaker 4: his game as well. And that's still my biggest question
Speaker 4: for them. But it's just as I voice it, just
Speaker 4: given what they've done this season, I don't know that
Speaker 4: I really believe it.
Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, Yeah, that's what that was kind of. I
Speaker 2: was like, there's still something off, you know, maybe like
Speaker 2: Tatum just doesn't have that instinct that's going to like
Speaker 2: put people in the ground and like he still settles
Speaker 2: for too many threes. But like the more just looking
Speaker 2: at like how like where they stack up historically, Like
Speaker 2: they're on the list with teams that won the title
Speaker 2: and were memorable. They're like the teams you remember from
Speaker 2: the decade that they've played in, you know, like that,
Speaker 2: Or they are on there with like two teams that
Speaker 2: were historically great and then lost to like amazing Lebron
Speaker 2: James team performances in the finals, like two of those.
Speaker 2: But it's it's starting to get to a place where
Speaker 2: it's like, oh man, they're like whatever we're hoping doesn't
Speaker 2: doesn't work out for them in the playoffs. That is
Speaker 2: starting to feel like hopium a little bit, Yeah, good
Speaker 2: for them.
Speaker 5: Well they're the team.
Speaker 4: Is there a scenario in which they don't win the
Speaker 4: like what is right? What is the the level of
Speaker 4: like how disappointing is if they don't win the title
Speaker 4: this year?
Speaker 2: Is it?
Speaker 4: Can they come out of the East in this season
Speaker 4: still be considered a success or if they lose in
Speaker 4: the conference finals or in the NBA Finals, They're going.
Speaker 5: To be wholesale questions that need to be answered.
Speaker 2: I think starting last year, people like we're like, this
Speaker 2: is when we need this team to win the title,
Speaker 2: like they've been close enough times that like is and
Speaker 2: so anything short of that for Celtics fans, and I
Speaker 2: think for like how NBA Press like views them like
Speaker 2: it is like they it's championship or bust at this point,
Speaker 2: and especially with this historically strong a you know, most
Speaker 2: of the season, at this point, I feel like people
Speaker 2: are going to be starting to be like, maybe there
Speaker 2: is something like maybe there is something to those ideas
Speaker 2: floating around that like Tatum can't be the best player
Speaker 2: on a championship team. So well, we'll see. But it's
Speaker 2: it's definitely I don't know, it's it's a smart out
Speaker 2: there for people who aren't Celtics fans.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's gonna be real quiet for some
Speaker 3: of us.
Speaker 2: Okay, see second hottest team in the league behind the Celtics,
Speaker 2: keeping pace with the Wolves still holding the Nuggets and
Speaker 2: Clippers off. Second best point differential in the league behind
Speaker 2: the Celtics and Shay Is as you mentioned already, like
Speaker 2: you know, second to Kitch in the m v P
Speaker 2: voting or m VP odds for the last three weeks.
Speaker 2: CHET is second on the Rookie of the Year ladder
Speaker 2: for the past six weeks. I don't know, you know,
Speaker 2: I did predict that they were going to win the
Speaker 2: title in the off season after just seeing one CHET
Speaker 2: Summer League game. And I don't recommend betting a championship
Speaker 2: team based on a single Summer League game.
Speaker 1: But but hey, you could be a success story for
Speaker 1: the people out there.
Speaker 5: You're actually bet on them more the odds you got
Speaker 5: on that.
Speaker 2: They were pretty good. I have to pull out the ticket,
Speaker 2: give you a second, here, can.
Speaker 1: Keep it in my wall. Inks gone. You can't prove
Speaker 1: it's actually a betting slip anymore, Like sir, there's there's nothing.
Speaker 5: It's a physical betting slip.
Speaker 1: Apparently went to the book. Uh and did the business
Speaker 1: while you're looking for that.
Speaker 5: I mean, that's ethical gambling right there.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, exactly exactly. Wait you have it.
Speaker 3: He looks like you lost it is pretending that it is.
Speaker 2: It is fading.
Speaker 1: Uh, be careful with those, Be careful with those.
Speaker 2: So I bet one hundred dollars to win ten thousand dollars.
Speaker 2: So I clicked dollars. Yeah, yeah, that was They were
Speaker 2: like you know in the middle of the pack in
Speaker 2: terms of overall odds to win it this year.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, I mean, look, they satisfied the Phil Jackson rule,
Speaker 1: you know, winning forty before losing twenty. They're forty and
Speaker 1: seventeen now, so there's one little, one little nudge of
Speaker 1: confidence for you there. Yeah. I mean, man, when you
Speaker 1: think that they only won forty games the whole last
Speaker 1: they were forty and forty two last season, Like, wow,
Speaker 1: what evolution they're having. That's pretty it's pretty crazy.
Speaker 2: The other so, I don't know, still keep an eye
Speaker 2: on them. I still feel like I'd be really surprised
Speaker 2: if it wasn't Nuggets and Celtics in the finals. Yeah,
Speaker 2: but yeah, I don't know. Check Check like throws a
Speaker 2: wrench into the mix with you know, Yokic, like having
Speaker 2: to go up against different looks and stuff. Like I'm
Speaker 2: not saying Chet's gonna like stop him, but it's definitely
Speaker 2: gets his hand on balls that only Wemby gets his
Speaker 2: hand on, you know. Otherwise. So speaking of which.
Speaker 1: Wait, did you see that that the Dylan Brooks is
Speaker 1: new technique the Hunter high five? In just right after
Speaker 1: the shots released, He's like, well, the ball ain't in there.
Speaker 3: I'm high five in and he.
Speaker 1: Got there was one where I think check throwing up
Speaker 1: and he was almost like, what, what's that? It's kind
Speaker 1: of interesting, but I love seeing new the new techniques.
Speaker 3: People are deploying just to to you know, for for
Speaker 3: defensive purposes.
Speaker 6: Yeah. Uh.
Speaker 2: And then my other off season prediction that this is
Speaker 2: just the podcast now I just check in with my
Speaker 2: good off season predictions. Uh huh. But Wemby winning Defensive
Speaker 2: Player of the Year that took a big step forward
Speaker 2: when he had a triple double with blocks first of
Speaker 2: the Raptors a couple of weeks back. He's averaged five
Speaker 2: point six blocks per contest over the last five games,
Speaker 2: leads the league overall at three point three per contest. Uh.
Speaker 2: Leads all rookies and points made, field goals, free throw
Speaker 2: attempt steals, rebounds, Uh, he's fourth and assists. Yeah.
Speaker 1: What is you think Wemby's the closest to getting the
Speaker 1: quadruple double or Jokic or who do you think, because
Speaker 1: you know what hasn't happened.
Speaker 2: At point four for sure, I guess, but.
Speaker 4: He would have to do it with so he'll have
Speaker 4: the points, the rebounds and then he has to do
Speaker 4: it with blocks and steals, because he probably won't do
Speaker 4: it with assists, and that feels harder than having to
Speaker 4: do it right with like Jokic can do it, he'll
Speaker 4: get the triple double, and then it's, well, can he
Speaker 4: get it in blocks and steals?
Speaker 5: I guess he's not much of a shop blocker.
Speaker 1: I mean, Draymond had a triple double without points, right,
Speaker 1: so you.
Speaker 2: Know what I mean? No, I mean we had a
Speaker 2: triple double with assists this season, Like he's he can
Speaker 2: do it with assists.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 5: I mean probably the answer.
Speaker 4: I mean, he might have the quintuple double at some
Speaker 4: point then, yeah, people, Yeah, that's why I think.
Speaker 1: And it's also interesting you think, like, of the four
Speaker 1: players to achieve the quadruple double, two of them have
Speaker 1: been Spurs players. Yeah, so he's got a lot of
Speaker 1: because Alvin Robertson did it as a guard in nineteen
Speaker 1: eighty six.
Speaker 2: Oh wow, wow, it's unbelievable.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's because then, yeah, everyone else was six eleven.
Speaker 1: It was like Hakeem Uh the Admiral, and then Nate Thurman, I.
Speaker 2: Think, damn.
Speaker 3: So yeah, it's it's an interesting one. It's an interesting one.
Speaker 1: That's wow that it's taken.
Speaker 3: It's been that long since ninety four.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's pretty it's pretty like the triple double thing.
Speaker 2: I feel like, you know, your mileage maybury on how
Speaker 2: much you buy into that and like whether that should
Speaker 2: be something that we ultimately reward MVP over. But yeah, uh,
Speaker 2: it's like quadruple quadruple doubles. Pretty yeah, well.
Speaker 1: Because that was like Russ's claim for a long time,
Speaker 1: like does amount.
Speaker 2: Of triple doubles this guy gets, Yeah, he's gotta be
Speaker 2: and he won the VP off that yeah, yeah, that.
Speaker 4: For yeah, that MVP award was like fueled by his
Speaker 4: averaging and triple double. Yeah, only at the time it
Speaker 4: was like, oh, no, one's done it since Oscar Robinson, right,
Speaker 4: and now Russ has done it like too often where
Speaker 4: it's like people are always just a status.
Speaker 1: Whatever, it's just a triple double. It's like, now you're
Speaker 1: gonna be like, all right, he had three quadruple doubles
Speaker 1: in this season. Okay.
Speaker 4: The way we become numb to that stuff is kind
Speaker 4: of sad. Like think about Giannis where it's just like
Speaker 4: you watch Giannis now and it's like Wemby's the new thing,
Speaker 4: but at some point we're just gonna become numb. And
Speaker 4: it's already start. Someone asked, I saw this on social media.
Speaker 4: Became a huge thing. Can Wemby or when will Wemby
Speaker 4: be the best player in the NBA, And there was
Speaker 4: a groundswell of responses that says he'll never be the
Speaker 4: best player in the NBA because of his like offensive
Speaker 4: skill set, And I'm like, if anything, Giannie has been
Speaker 4: the best player in the NBA for multiple seasons, and
Speaker 4: like he has never everyone came back like he's not
Speaker 4: a primary initiator. We've seen people who aren't primary initiators
Speaker 4: be the best player. And if you're gonna put up
Speaker 4: you know, five by fives and maybe get a quintuple
Speaker 4: double or a quadruple double at some point. I find
Speaker 4: it incredibly odd that there are people that are still
Speaker 4: skeptical of him just because he's big and skinny.
Speaker 5: I just I find bizarre.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it's going to be sooner rather than later,
Speaker 2: like not not like next season, but I think he
Speaker 2: could be prettier, like shockingly early in his career.
Speaker 4: Could before or after twenty twenty seven?
Speaker 5: Would you take which way would you go?
Speaker 2: Well, that's years and years into the future. I don't
Speaker 2: even know if the world's going to still be around.
Speaker 2: Oh I'm sorry that three years from.
Speaker 3: Now Carrington event could knock out all of our electric.
Speaker 2: Probably around twenty twenty seven is like the early prediction,
Speaker 2: but I don't think it's impossible.
Speaker 4: Yeah, when was the last time we had someone in
Speaker 4: their fourth season or fifth season be the best player
Speaker 4: in the Like?
Speaker 5: Was Lebron the best player in the NBA when he
Speaker 5: was in his fifth season seven or eight?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that was around when he was becoming
Speaker 2: the best player was getting he was definitely like a
Speaker 2: little bit ahead of schedule.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, I guess. You know, we were talking
Speaker 1: about some of the KEYA Ladder races earlier, but you know,
Speaker 1: dances we have. Let's let's get some refined expert opinion
Speaker 1: on some of these these races.
Speaker 5: Yeah, who else we bring it on?
Speaker 3: Yeah? Damn, look at this guy, he's always got this stuff.
Speaker 1: But yeah, I mean.
Speaker 3: This character, who is this guy? Okay, let's start with MVP.
Speaker 1: What do you think?
Speaker 3: Let's get let me get your thoughts on that.
Speaker 5: I think it's Jokic right now.
Speaker 4: I mean, he has just been so dominant, and he's
Speaker 4: actually improved defensively this year. I think I wouldn't be
Speaker 4: shocked though Shay ends up winning, because it feels like
Speaker 4: there's a scenario where Jokic kind of hits cruise control
Speaker 4: over the last like a few weeks of the season,
Speaker 4: and that the margins are so close that if Shay's
Speaker 4: really going for the award, or even if Luca, that
Speaker 4: they could end up usurping him. But if it was
Speaker 4: the award was being chosen today, I'd pick Jokic fairly comfortably.
Speaker 5: But like Shay is, he's right there, and.
Speaker 4: It's it feels like, I know we kind of went
Speaker 4: through this with Jokic and Bed last year, but have
Speaker 4: it be this post this season with Shay and Jokic
Speaker 4: so late and where it still feels so undecided is.
Speaker 5: Not something I would have expected. It comes back to
Speaker 5: the entire Thunder.
Speaker 4: I was a huge fan of Shay, but Thunder being
Speaker 4: in contention for the best record in the West, Shay
Speaker 4: being one of the top two MVP candidates just not
Speaker 4: stuff I had on my twenty twenty three to twenty
Speaker 4: twenty four BINGO card.
Speaker 3: Right, what about Rookie of the Year.
Speaker 2: That's the dob deal, right, isn't it.
Speaker 4: I think most people had as done deal as its
Speaker 4: just being chet Holmgren. And I think that Wenby, ever
Speaker 4: since they moved him, is like this Purson decided, Oh okay,
Speaker 4: he's like he's a big he's gonna be our five.
Speaker 4: I think Wenby has closed the gap, and there's a
Speaker 4: case I don't know if he's.
Speaker 5: Gonna you mentioned Defensive Player of the Year. He's definitely
Speaker 5: not gonna win that.
Speaker 4: But like I think Tim Duncan was the last rookie
Speaker 4: to make an All Defense team, and if I was
Speaker 4: going through it now, I think Wemby probably deserves to
Speaker 4: make one. And so like, if he's going to be
Speaker 4: a rookie who makes an All Defense team, I kind
Speaker 4: of feel like he needs to win Rookie of the Year.
Speaker 4: But I think it's gonna be I think it's gonna
Speaker 4: be close. I probably would lean Wemby at this point though,
Speaker 4: because he is he's transformative on it. It's not even
Speaker 4: just the blocks. It's just like you ever watched the
Speaker 4: ground that he covers. It's just like it doesn't make
Speaker 4: any sense. So I lean Wemby but it's close between
Speaker 4: him and.
Speaker 1: Chet Yeah, just producer Joe Barry got only five NBA
Speaker 1: rookies have made an All Defense team Kareem, Akeem Minut,
Speaker 1: David Robinson, and Tim Duncan.
Speaker 2: So yeah, I think category is doing these things.
Speaker 1: My god, I know, I know, Storied, storage Club, story franchise.
Speaker 3: What about most improved?
Speaker 2: This one's tough.
Speaker 4: I still go with Scottie Barnes, but there's like really
Speaker 4: strong cases for I mean with Scotty Barnes, he's improved defensively,
Speaker 4: and I think as a passer this year and as
Speaker 4: a shooter in the scale at which he's done it,
Speaker 4: where this is already who was a very good player
Speaker 4: and then made the jump to All Star.
Speaker 5: I do think that matters.
Speaker 4: But you have guys like Alprin, Shang Gun, there's Cam
Speaker 4: Thomas probably deserves to be there for what he's done
Speaker 4: in Brooklyn.
Speaker 5: Like this feels like.
Speaker 4: It's going to be like a pretty deep ballot when
Speaker 4: you're looking at potential candidates. I still it's Scottie Barnes
Speaker 4: for me at the moment, though.
Speaker 2: I got Maxie. Maxie's leading the odds right now, So.
Speaker 5: That's actually surprising to me.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm not seeing Scottie Barnes anywhere near the top.
Speaker 2: I'm wondering, what do people just think that because he's
Speaker 2: so good. Yeah, he's like way down there, Scottie Barnes.
Speaker 2: You should you got you should go get some action
Speaker 2: on that man. You can get really good value.
Speaker 6: Wow.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm looking at them. Why is like people like
Speaker 4: Keg Cunningham's ahead of him? That's that's weird. I mean,
Speaker 4: Kobe White is another good one. And I will say,
Speaker 4: I don't know where you guys land on this. I'd
Speaker 4: be curious to see. I'm not a fan of second
Speaker 4: players winning the award just because I feel like you're
Speaker 4: expected a second year players, because I feel like you're
Speaker 4: expected to make this huge leap. Yeah, to go back
Speaker 4: to the Thunder, Jalen Williams was already really good and
Speaker 4: may have just made the leap to like basically or
Speaker 4: close to an All Star.
Speaker 5: So that's like kind of a name that I could
Speaker 5: see creeping up.
Speaker 2: I feel like he deserves it, but he's not gonna
Speaker 2: like get it necessarily. But yeah, Jalen Williams has been incredible.
Speaker 2: Haliburton makes sense like I would have thought like if
Speaker 2: you told me what his season was gonna be, Like
Speaker 2: I would have thought maybe he was an option in
Speaker 2: the same way that Joah got it a few years back, right,
Speaker 2: and you know it was like went from borderline all
Speaker 2: start to one of the best players in the league.
Speaker 2: But it doesn't seem like the odds are very good
Speaker 2: on that one. So I'm happy with Maxie. We need
Speaker 2: we need the wins in Philadelphia.
Speaker 1: Yeah uh. And finally, what about Doc River's final post
Speaker 1: game excuse in May?
Speaker 2: What are those guys, Hey, I wouldn't withher all my
Speaker 2: worst enemy coach coaching Yanna talk to the coupo.
Speaker 1: What a wild take ill this guy?
Speaker 3: I told him, don't bring me in now, all.
Speaker 4: By the way, all like unsolicited basically where it's like
Speaker 4: you're kind of just on the subject of coaching the
Speaker 4: Bucks and he feels the need to say, oh, I
Speaker 4: didn't I didn't want to coach the Bucks, or you
Speaker 4: never want to do this. This is so hard, like
Speaker 4: what was me? I've been gainfully employed for the past
Speaker 4: two and a half decades. There's probably a point where
Speaker 4: it's we're making him too much of a meme because
Speaker 4: he has been a good coach. But at every stop
Speaker 4: he's gone to, he's developed his reputation as like a
Speaker 4: very good manager of superstar egos. Let's go back to
Speaker 4: the Clippers problems in the locker room both iterations, the
Speaker 4: Sixers problems in the locker room, both iterations, the Ben
Speaker 4: Simmons era of the James Harden era. And now you're
Speaker 4: in Milwaukee and just kind of like throwing the team
Speaker 4: or the organization under the.
Speaker 5: Butt, like why would you fire Adrian Griffin? That doesn't
Speaker 5: make any sense and hire me?
Speaker 2: I just yeah, why did you hire me? All right,
Speaker 2: let's take a break, we'll come back. We'll do the
Speaker 2: fastest segment in podcast over here.
Speaker 3: And we're back, Dan fa Valley.
Speaker 1: Look, man, I think it's Friday the thirteenth, because it's
Speaker 1: about to be a nightmare on pod Street. Am I right? Jacket?
Speaker 2: Way you're mixing different horror franchises.
Speaker 3: Yeah, look, that's how you do it.
Speaker 1: It's how you do it. We kind of have vague
Speaker 1: ideas of what those movies are about. But anyway, it's
Speaker 1: time for the rapid fire around the question. Davin Value,
Speaker 1: you already know what time it is. We're gonna ask
Speaker 1: you a question. You just chest passed the ball right
Speaker 1: back to us. Give us your quick answer. Don't think
Speaker 1: too hard, just give us the answer, please, so we.
Speaker 2: Can Michael Myers just giving those instructions because this must
Speaker 2: be a nightmare on my street on Friday the thirteenth.
Speaker 1: Is it? Did? I just saw Michael Myers right there,
Speaker 1: because you know that Mic is a chatterbox. If I
Speaker 1: ever heard one man? Do you want to play a game?
Speaker 3: Dan Fall, We'll guess what you're about to Uh you ready.
Speaker 5: I'm ready start the clock?
Speaker 6: Ryan?
Speaker 3: Oh okay, Jack, you want to go first?
Speaker 2: No, I want you to go first, Miles. I desperately
Speaker 2: want you to go first.
Speaker 3: Go go all right, Dann fa Valley. Check out this list.
Speaker 1: You can pick now only three of these throwbacks from
Speaker 1: the nineties. Which three are you picking?
Speaker 2: You got Reggie Miller era Indiana Jazz from Malone Stock
Speaker 2: then Son, Oh, sorry.
Speaker 4: Okay, give me that Vince Carter er Raptors Jersey yep,
Speaker 4: the Vancouver Grizzlies Jersey goes incredibly hard.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we're rocking that one.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and that Houston Rockets Jersey. Why is that Drexler
Speaker 4: who's in that picture? I can't Oh yeah, that is
Speaker 4: bring those back why and that should be their logo
Speaker 4: right now.
Speaker 5: I freaking love that Rocket's logo.
Speaker 1: Yeah, fantastic one. It's weird. I mean, we haven't even
Speaker 1: gotten to talk about the Clippers logo, but uh, just
Speaker 1: just briefly. Fans you fan of the Clippers rebrand.
Speaker 5: I thought it was fine.
Speaker 4: I do not like I was a fan of the
Speaker 4: powder blue stuff they were doing, so they kind of
Speaker 4: see that take a back seat was a little bit sad,
Speaker 4: I will say. When I saw their previous font, I
Speaker 4: always thought of, do you guys remember the Windows paper
Speaker 4: clip guy?
Speaker 2: Yeah, clip pop up.
Speaker 4: Getting rid of that font is either a W or
Speaker 4: an L. I kind of like thinking about the Windows
Speaker 4: paper clip guys that font a little bit. But the
Speaker 4: logo goes pretty hard. It looks a little bit like
Speaker 4: the Seattle Mariners. But I like the actual like compass
Speaker 4: and ship stuff that's in there.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's not bad, not bad, not bad.
Speaker 6: All right?
Speaker 2: Damn more likely to happen? And why Nick's Eastern Conference
Speaker 2: Final Warriors, Western Conference Final.
Speaker 4: Warriors, Western Conference Final just they have they have the
Speaker 4: pedigree with with steph.
Speaker 1: Okay, how about this more likely to happen? And why
Speaker 1: Calves Eastern Conference Final or Lakers Western Conference Final.
Speaker 5: That's easy.
Speaker 4: It's the Calves Eastern Conference Final because the Lakers are
Speaker 4: Torrian Prince's team.
Speaker 5: And that's the problem.
Speaker 6: My god, I can't believe.
Speaker 1: I can't believe what I saw against the.
Speaker 2: Sun more likely to happen Buck's Eastern Conference Final, Sun's
Speaker 2: Western Conference Final.
Speaker 4: Ooh, it's bus Buck's Eastern Conference Final. I just I
Speaker 4: don't know how you can trust Phoenix and crunch time
Speaker 4: and to be healthy at this point.
Speaker 3: Mm hmm.
Speaker 1: Okay, give us your most underappreciated of the truly all
Speaker 1: time greats. You know someone that deserves to be mentioned
Speaker 1: but isn't. He doesn't doesn't really get the respect or
Speaker 1: at least the recognition they should when talking about all timers.
Speaker 5: I'm gonna go with t ma Ac.
Speaker 4: Do we I know he was injured, but like, do
Speaker 4: you remember what Pete t Mac was like? Just like
Speaker 4: as a okay, the scoring, but the passing, the shot
Speaker 4: flocking as a guard like this is someone who I
Speaker 4: think that he had the longevity, could have been like
Speaker 4: the scoring chainampion, the assist champion, and maybe just been
Speaker 4: making all defensive teams and him and I would also
Speaker 4: just nominate Grant Hill, who I think might have been
Speaker 4: gone down as like one of the ten best players
Speaker 4: of all time that he never got gotten injured and
Speaker 4: would be probably be the player I'd most want to
Speaker 4: see among legends in like today's era, where I like
Speaker 4: his game would just PLoP right in and he could dominate.
Speaker 6: All right.
Speaker 2: And finally, what is the one moment or game from
Speaker 2: NBA history you wish Twitter had been around for?
Speaker 4: Twitter had been around for I can't even think, Ah,
Speaker 4: I have this is too hard.
Speaker 1: I feel like it can't be too hard, Dan or
Speaker 1: else the whole show falls apart, all right.
Speaker 4: So I feel like, what if Twitter was around for
Speaker 4: like the the Michael Jordan like the shot against the Jazz,
Speaker 4: or even can I go off the court like the
Speaker 4: food poisoning with Michael like that game and having.
Speaker 5: That whole pizza story behind it?
Speaker 2: Yeah, oh my god, because the conspiracy theories would have
Speaker 2: already been flaring up by the time the first vomit
Speaker 2: hit the toilet, you know, like people would be like, hey.
Speaker 1: Poisoned them right right now, right right, My cousin knows
Speaker 1: a guy look, and you're.
Speaker 3: Like, oh, yep, or there absolutely.
Speaker 4: Would have been like the Counter Reports where it's well
Speaker 4: we actually start Jordan's charter a jet to Vegas right game.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it was like what really hasppened there?
Speaker 2: Well, Dan Favale, you have made it through the shooting
Speaker 2: gallery that is the rabbit Fire round of questions Miles
Speaker 2: and jackott Man Boostie, thank you so much for joining
Speaker 2: us once again. Where can people find you? Follow you
Speaker 2: all that good stuff?
Speaker 4: They can find me on Twitter. It's just my name
Speaker 4: at Dan Favalley fav A L E. And if they're
Speaker 4: looking for more general NBA talk. I co host the
Speaker 4: Hardwoodknox podcast. It is spelled exactly as it sounds.
Speaker 2: It's the Hardwood Knock.
Speaker 4: It needs to be our intro music until we remembered
Speaker 4: like seven or eight years ago that copyright issues worth thing.
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, it happens to the best of us on here.
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah turn things.
Speaker 1: Uh well, you can follow us on Twitter. First of all,
Speaker 1: you can follow the hashtag for show LinkedIn updates hashtag
Speaker 1: mad boostis b W O S T I E S.
Speaker 3: You can follow me on Twitter at Miles of Gray.
Speaker 2: I'm at Jack Underscore O'Brien. And that was it one
Speaker 2: of two we did two in the books, one O
Speaker 2: three Coming at You, Benny.
Speaker 1: And two George is in the bag. Maybe guess what.
Speaker 1: We're gonna be back for another one, one O three,
Speaker 1: straight up banger and mash. We'll see you next time.
Speaker 1: I was Jack on Mad Boosties.
Speaker 2: Bye.