WEBVTT - The Future of Fashion 0:00:00.160 --> 0:00:07.120 Brought to you by Toyota. Let's go places. Welcome to 0:00:07.280 --> 0:00:15.240 Forward Thinking. Hey, and welcome to Forward Thinking, the podcast 0:00:15.280 --> 0:00:18.279 that looks at the future and says, pretty sirens don't 0:00:18.280 --> 0:00:22.040 go flat. I'm Joe McCormick, I'm Lauren Bolgabon, and our 0:00:22.079 --> 0:00:24.880 regular host Jonathan Strickland is not with us today. He 0:00:25.040 --> 0:00:28.880 is being bored out of his mind on vacation. But 0:00:29.240 --> 0:00:34.400 instead we're being joined by our wonderful colleague and Pierre. 0:00:34.680 --> 0:00:38.480 Holly Fry. Introduce yourself, Holly, Hi, Hi, Hi. I'm Holly Fry, 0:00:38.640 --> 0:00:41.440 normally from Stuff You Miss in History Glass, an excellent 0:00:41.479 --> 0:00:43.800 podcast that if you don't already listen to, you should 0:00:43.840 --> 0:00:46.960 check out. Yeah, definitely, And Holly has been on the 0:00:47.000 --> 0:00:50.760 show before. At some point a long time ago. I 0:00:50.760 --> 0:00:53.360 believe Holly was with us, I think to talk about 0:00:53.720 --> 0:00:59.000 gamifying fitness, right, Yes, that was like October. We've been 0:00:59.040 --> 0:01:01.320 doing this a while and that kind of ties into 0:01:01.360 --> 0:01:06.280 our topic for today, which is fashion, the fashion of 0:01:06.360 --> 0:01:09.760 the future, the future of fashion. Specifically, we want to 0:01:09.800 --> 0:01:12.480 talk about whether in the future there will be literal 0:01:12.640 --> 0:01:16.440 fashion police armed with shock sticks and packs to chase 0:01:16.560 --> 0:01:21.000 down offenders who wear plaid jumpsuits. I don't know, there 0:01:21.040 --> 0:01:25.679 won't be no Well, Joan is gone, so the Fashion 0:01:25.720 --> 0:01:28.399 Police have all but disbanded. I don't know what you're 0:01:28.400 --> 0:01:31.479 talking about. Come along and will be The Fashion Police 0:01:31.560 --> 0:01:34.000 used to be a show that Joan Rivers headed up, 0:01:34.040 --> 0:01:38.800 where she would basically do that verbally described. She passed 0:01:38.920 --> 0:01:41.399 Kathy Griffin replaced her briefly, but then didn't really like 0:01:41.440 --> 0:01:43.600 the tone of the show because there was some you know, 0:01:43.640 --> 0:01:48.240 it's a little judge and negatives. Um so now it's 0:01:48.320 --> 0:01:51.720 kind of in a floundering and if anybody were going 0:01:51.760 --> 0:01:55.840 to start that branch of um, you know, legal actual 0:01:57.120 --> 0:01:58.880 chase you down and hurt you for your poor choices, 0:01:58.920 --> 0:02:00.840 it would have been Joan Rivers. What send. She's not 0:02:00.880 --> 0:02:03.240 with us anymore, although I have hope that like her 0:02:03.240 --> 0:02:05.880 brain is resting in a jar somewhere Futurama style, and 0:02:06.160 --> 0:02:09.880 that her her robot army will descend upon our dystopian 0:02:09.919 --> 0:02:12.680 future or utopian future. Really, I think that would work 0:02:12.680 --> 0:02:15.360 pretty well. So I imagine, Holly, you'd be a great 0:02:15.400 --> 0:02:19.400 defense counsel in the court of the Fashion Police, probably 0:02:19.480 --> 0:02:22.600 because I'm down for anything, right, So we we actually 0:02:22.600 --> 0:02:25.239 do want to talk about fashion today, maybe not fashion Police, 0:02:25.280 --> 0:02:28.400 but just more broadly the future of fashion. And we've 0:02:28.400 --> 0:02:32.120 talked about the future of clothing before. Yeah, in December 0:02:33.200 --> 0:02:36.000 we talked about stuff like kinetic fabrics and and three 0:02:36.080 --> 0:02:40.400 D printing of pieces, and self cleaning fabrics and odor 0:02:40.440 --> 0:02:44.520 filtering fabrics for all of your farts and um and 0:02:44.520 --> 0:02:46.760 and other stuff like that. Well, today we we brought 0:02:46.800 --> 0:02:49.960 Holly on because Ali actually does have a wonderfully interesting 0:02:49.960 --> 0:02:55.200 sense of fashion, and she designs things I do. I mean, 0:02:55.240 --> 0:02:57.639 I like clothes. I always have sin so I was 0:02:57.680 --> 0:03:01.399 a kiddo, like I don't remember ber not ever being 0:03:01.440 --> 0:03:04.560 into clothes and not making them. Yeah, yeah, And you 0:03:04.600 --> 0:03:06.280 make a lot of your own clothes, right, I do 0:03:06.360 --> 0:03:07.760 most of the unless it's a T shirt, it's a 0:03:07.760 --> 0:03:10.320 pretty safe bet that I made it. Except you make 0:03:10.360 --> 0:03:13.320 like really interesting clothes, not like the boring stuff I wear. 0:03:13.440 --> 0:03:17.840 Like you make like things for for like sci fi conventions, 0:03:17.840 --> 0:03:19.840 and I do. But I also make most of my 0:03:19.919 --> 0:03:23.240 day wear. Um. And part of that is because I don't. 0:03:23.400 --> 0:03:26.680 I never, even as a kid, liked what the offerings 0:03:26.720 --> 0:03:29.000 were off the rack, Like I didn't like wearing the 0:03:29.080 --> 0:03:32.320 same thing as other people. And it didn't have enough 0:03:32.320 --> 0:03:35.120 grito on it. Probably nothing ever has enough grito on it. 0:03:35.240 --> 0:03:37.760 Probably Do you have a grito tattoo? Does the world 0:03:37.800 --> 0:03:40.360 know this? I do, and the world knows, and the 0:03:40.400 --> 0:03:42.880 world will know more. We have a video coming out 0:03:43.040 --> 0:03:46.440 soon ish about me getting my grito tattoos, which will 0:03:46.480 --> 0:03:50.080 be on the House to Works YouTube channel. But yeah, 0:03:50.400 --> 0:03:53.080 I always was into kind of that crazy a lot 0:03:53.120 --> 0:03:55.880 of film inspired stuff and wanted to integrate that into 0:03:55.960 --> 0:03:57.680 my daily wear. So that's how I ended up kind 0:03:57.720 --> 0:04:00.880 of well, that's definitely where my brain and immediately goes 0:04:00.960 --> 0:04:02.640 when I think about the future of fashion. I just 0:04:02.640 --> 0:04:05.280 start thinking about, okay, sci fi movies set in the future, 0:04:05.360 --> 0:04:08.240 what do people wearing them? And immediately the first thing 0:04:08.280 --> 0:04:10.240 I think of is the fifth Element. I'm not sure 0:04:10.280 --> 0:04:16.560 why that is the movie that screams future? Yeah, who 0:04:16.720 --> 0:04:22.320 is that? I'm sorry, you're I hate. I hate to 0:04:22.360 --> 0:04:24.760 affirm stereotypes and be the guy in the room who 0:04:24.800 --> 0:04:26.720 doesn't know anything about fashion, but I don't. Well, we 0:04:26.720 --> 0:04:28.800 should also say that Jean Pagutier is not the only 0:04:28.839 --> 0:04:30.960 designer on it. Mobius also designed a lot of this. 0:04:31.400 --> 0:04:33.760 That's right, that's right. But Jean pau Gautier is a 0:04:33.839 --> 0:04:36.040 very well known French designer, as you might guess from 0:04:36.080 --> 0:04:40.279 the moniker Uh he does if you remember. This is 0:04:40.320 --> 0:04:42.480 a ways back for some of our younger listeners, though 0:04:42.480 --> 0:04:45.680 I'm sure they've seen them. Their iconic Madonna's tour where 0:04:45.680 --> 0:04:48.680 she did all the cone bras and those crazy corsets 0:04:48.680 --> 0:04:51.280 in the eighties, that was all Gautier. That's the future, 0:04:51.680 --> 0:04:55.400 it was then. Yeah, um, now you know those are 0:04:55.440 --> 0:05:00.919 just de rigor so yeah, well, I mean that is 0:05:00.960 --> 0:05:03.200 one vision of the future to me. The fifth element 0:05:03.320 --> 0:05:06.320 is interesting because it's got these sort of like wild, 0:05:06.640 --> 0:05:11.640 very eye catching and busy kind of fashion pieces, bright colors, 0:05:11.720 --> 0:05:15.279 strange patterns, things were not used to. But then the 0:05:15.520 --> 0:05:17.839 some depictions of the future sort of go in the 0:05:18.120 --> 0:05:21.080 totally opposite direction, right, Like you've got Star Trek and 0:05:21.120 --> 0:05:23.200 things like that, where they just say, well, in the future, 0:05:23.200 --> 0:05:25.480 nobody's gonna care about fashion and it's all just going 0:05:25.520 --> 0:05:29.640 to be identical jumpsuits or you know, basic gray fatigues. Well, 0:05:29.640 --> 0:05:32.000 but you're thinking about Star Trek in terms of the uniforms, 0:05:32.520 --> 0:05:34.240 because if you look at anybody else that gets on 0:05:34.279 --> 0:05:39.640 that ship, any any of the various alien cultures an encounter, 0:05:39.680 --> 0:05:42.839 although it seems like they default to jumpsuits and mumu, 0:05:43.040 --> 0:05:45.800 Well that's true. That's a very good point. But yeah, 0:05:45.839 --> 0:05:48.479 you have to remember that they're technically like a military crew. 0:05:49.360 --> 0:05:51.719 Military is maybe not the right way to place it, 0:05:51.760 --> 0:05:54.120 but there there is, you know, an exploration there are 0:05:53.960 --> 0:05:59.480 a governmental agency basically exploring space. So it's all uniform base, right, 0:05:59.600 --> 0:06:03.040 I mean you're part of an organization like Starfleet. Organizations 0:06:03.080 --> 0:06:05.320 like that, past, present and future always going to want 0:06:05.320 --> 0:06:09.040 to destroy your individuality and make you an identical peg. 0:06:10.200 --> 0:06:12.280 That's a fun way to look at it. I look 0:06:12.320 --> 0:06:15.760 at it is simplifying and codifying. You know, you have 0:06:15.839 --> 0:06:17.920 to make it easy to identify who's who and if 0:06:17.960 --> 0:06:19.480 you're allowed to where whatever you want. You won't know 0:06:19.520 --> 0:06:24.719 who the science officers are. Yes, you won't know which 0:06:24.760 --> 0:06:27.279 of the away party should die on the planet because 0:06:27.320 --> 0:06:30.120 they won't be wearing the red shirts, right right. I 0:06:30.120 --> 0:06:33.520 mean I'm personally really voting for like the golden age 0:06:33.560 --> 0:06:37.000 sci fi nineteen fifties version of future fashion, wherein all 0:06:37.160 --> 0:06:40.560 dudes where like deep ocean diving suits, and all ladies 0:06:40.640 --> 0:06:43.520 where like bikinis that are covered in vacuum sealed plastic wrap. 0:06:43.920 --> 0:06:46.799 I want lots of rings. I want ring collars everywhere. 0:06:47.320 --> 0:06:50.640 I want it to be very metropolis and a little 0:06:50.640 --> 0:06:52.919 bit of Do you remember when Futurama went to the 0:06:52.920 --> 0:06:55.159 bar where the rings were all the thing in terms 0:06:55.200 --> 0:06:58.000 of accessories and for I was like, oo futuristic and 0:06:58.000 --> 0:07:01.599 I'm like, no, this is retro. So I'm into that. 0:07:01.680 --> 0:07:07.120 I dig it. Pigs in space fashion forward. Yeah, well 0:07:07.120 --> 0:07:09.720 you bring up an interesting thing there, Holly, with retro 0:07:10.120 --> 0:07:13.520 and future sort of colliding, because a lot of people 0:07:13.560 --> 0:07:18.720 do seem to have observed that fashion goes in cycles, right, Yes, 0:07:19.240 --> 0:07:21.520 there is some argument over the length of the cycle, 0:07:22.720 --> 0:07:24.680 but yeah, for the most part, you'll hear people bandy 0:07:24.720 --> 0:07:27.560 about like the twenty year cycle. Uh. There was an 0:07:27.640 --> 0:07:30.160 article recently, I'm kind of pulling this one out of 0:07:30.200 --> 0:07:32.760 memory on Slate where they actually talked about a New 0:07:32.840 --> 0:07:36.880 Yorker article that discussed a forty year nostalgia cycle and 0:07:36.920 --> 0:07:38.880 that was in reference to Madmen and sort of how 0:07:38.920 --> 0:07:41.920 that has all happened. But they were using that juxtaposed 0:07:41.960 --> 0:07:47.840 against predictions and social observations of others, um other sociologists 0:07:47.840 --> 0:07:50.120 and predictors that would say there was a cycle. But 0:07:50.120 --> 0:07:52.640 they all gave them different year denominations. Oh no, it's 0:07:52.640 --> 0:07:55.680 a thirty years fifteen is really where the site no 0:07:57.040 --> 0:07:59.280 is more where the cyclist so well. But but but 0:07:59.320 --> 0:08:01.880 either way, it's it's easily observable in the fact that 0:08:01.960 --> 0:08:04.360 a lot of the things, uh, like, a lot of 0:08:04.360 --> 0:08:06.520 the things that the young hip kids these days are 0:08:06.520 --> 0:08:10.880 wearing seemed very similar to what was popular in like 0:08:10.960 --> 0:08:16.240 hip hop culture in the mid right, Uh, and that 0:08:16.240 --> 0:08:18.280 that does happen. There is an argument going on right 0:08:18.280 --> 0:08:22.240 now that the cycle is getting shortened by the you know, 0:08:22.320 --> 0:08:24.560 sort of permutation of technology in our lives and the 0:08:24.600 --> 0:08:28.440 compression apidity with which we share interestation now whereas before 0:08:28.600 --> 0:08:31.680 part of the twenty year cycle was like the big 0:08:31.720 --> 0:08:35.040 cities is where the retro stuff would start and then 0:08:35.040 --> 0:08:37.040 it would slowly ripple out to more and more rural 0:08:37.080 --> 0:08:40.760 areas until it became kind of ubiquitous. But now everybody's 0:08:40.920 --> 0:08:44.800 attached to everything at the same time. So interesting that 0:08:44.880 --> 0:08:47.199 happened is interesting. But what I wanted to bring up 0:08:47.240 --> 0:08:50.360 was Labour's law. He was a historian, among other things, 0:08:50.360 --> 0:08:53.760 and a journalist, and he sort of observed and wrote 0:08:53.800 --> 0:08:58.040 down this sort of uh, the cyclical nature of it 0:08:58.240 --> 0:09:01.720 and he broke it out in the year. So his 0:09:02.280 --> 0:09:05.520 sort of the way that he says the fashion timeline 0:09:05.520 --> 0:09:09.440 goes is that an item is considered indecent ten years 0:09:09.480 --> 0:09:14.040 before it's time, shameless five years before it's time, daring 0:09:14.280 --> 0:09:17.559 one year before it's time, smart when it's okorn, and 0:09:17.600 --> 0:09:21.760 that's smart in the sense of snappy, not intellect like, oh, 0:09:21.920 --> 0:09:25.360 that's a she's a smart dresser. Uh dowdy one year 0:09:25.400 --> 0:09:30.160 after its time, hideous ten years after its time, ridiculous 0:09:30.200 --> 0:09:34.680 twenty years after its time, amusing thirty years after its time, 0:09:35.320 --> 0:09:39.800 quaint fifty years after its time, charming seventy years after 0:09:39.840 --> 0:09:43.679 its time, romantic one hundred years after its time, and 0:09:43.960 --> 0:09:47.400 beautiful one fifty years after its time. That's kind of 0:09:47.520 --> 0:09:49.720 a long I don't know if that's even a cycle. 0:09:49.800 --> 0:09:53.520 That's just sort of like a qualitative spectrum emerging from 0:09:53.559 --> 0:09:57.280 the present year. Yeah, And I had mentioned to Joe 0:09:57.280 --> 0:09:58.760 a little bit ago, and I did not put it 0:09:58.760 --> 0:10:01.320 in the notes because I had a revelatory moment while 0:10:01.360 --> 0:10:03.840 I was driving into work this morning, because I was 0:10:03.880 --> 0:10:05.520 thinking about this and I was trying to kind of 0:10:05.520 --> 0:10:08.280 retroactively apply these rules and be like, well, like a 0:10:08.360 --> 0:10:11.600 hundred and fifty years ago, we were kind of one 0:10:11.600 --> 0:10:15.319 of those shifts in Victorian fashion when the bustle skirt 0:10:15.400 --> 0:10:16.800 was very big, and I was like, well, that's never 0:10:16.800 --> 0:10:18.560 going to come back, and then my brain went Nicki 0:10:18.559 --> 0:10:21.000 Minaj and I was like, oh, it did come back, 0:10:23.280 --> 0:10:26.199 and now people are getting you know, dairy are implants 0:10:27.040 --> 0:10:29.559 so that they can make the badanc a little larger 0:10:29.600 --> 0:10:32.280 and more sumptuous, and it's basically a modernized version of 0:10:32.280 --> 0:10:34.480 a you know, like a bustle pad. That was the 0:10:34.520 --> 0:10:36.599 point of bustles, really was. That was the point of 0:10:36.640 --> 0:10:39.000 the crinolines. I thought it was like, so peoples and 0:10:39.000 --> 0:10:41.920 bustles are not the same thing. Okay, So the big 0:10:41.960 --> 0:10:44.360 the big dresses and big skirts. I always thought, and 0:10:44.360 --> 0:10:46.520 I could totally be wrong, that the point was that 0:10:46.559 --> 0:10:49.080 nobody's going to see the shape your leg moving the 0:10:49.160 --> 0:10:52.800 dress that way. And there are a lot of different 0:10:52.800 --> 0:10:55.199 reasons you can't really break it down to one. Like, 0:10:55.720 --> 0:10:58.680 for example, when you look at sort of the the 0:10:58.760 --> 0:11:01.959 wide pannier of like the Rococo period, like so think 0:11:01.960 --> 0:11:04.240 of a marianto a net dress and this really really 0:11:04.600 --> 0:11:07.760 exaggerated hip shapes, like like you can't fit through doorway 0:11:07.840 --> 0:11:10.760 unless you turn sideways right, right, And that was like 0:11:10.800 --> 0:11:13.880 the six ft diameter, right. So part of that is 0:11:14.000 --> 0:11:16.319 one did you know the rough and little pocket cages 0:11:16.360 --> 0:11:19.600 in there where you could there were little pockets that 0:11:19.679 --> 0:11:21.920 you can have which actually just like a pocket that 0:11:21.960 --> 0:11:26.840 you would tie around your your waist, over your usually 0:11:26.840 --> 0:11:29.839 over your your corsetree. Uh yeah, I was gonna say 0:11:29.840 --> 0:11:32.320 your chemise and then your person layer. But they also 0:11:32.400 --> 0:11:34.480 had some that were like the cage itself made a 0:11:34.480 --> 0:11:36.760 little pocket that you could like literally shove a bottle 0:11:36.760 --> 0:11:42.520 of wine. Not quite big enough for an astronach, but um, 0:11:42.800 --> 0:11:46.240 you know, sizeable. Uh. And part of that is, you know, 0:11:46.280 --> 0:11:49.400 those big extreme shapes are kind of about creating a 0:11:49.440 --> 0:11:54.040 silhouette that is fantastical and and not practical. Oh yeah, 0:11:54.040 --> 0:11:56.560 that's part of going I am so rich. Yeah, it's 0:11:56.559 --> 0:11:58.880 part of wearing the hustle through a door, y'all sure, 0:11:59.360 --> 0:12:01.120 and also being able to say, look at how much 0:12:01.160 --> 0:12:04.080 silk I can afford and how much embroidery. Wow. So 0:12:04.240 --> 0:12:07.040 do you think we're going back into an age of 0:12:07.200 --> 0:12:12.079 like large, ostentatious kind of clothing pieces. No, because I 0:12:12.120 --> 0:12:15.079 don't think it's practical in today's world, you know what 0:12:15.120 --> 0:12:17.080 I mean, Like it could be more practical then because 0:12:17.120 --> 0:12:20.160 there wasn't as much hustle and bustle to life, whereas now, 0:12:20.240 --> 0:12:23.439 even if you are theoretically the idle rich, you probably 0:12:23.440 --> 0:12:24.719 still have a lot of things you have to get 0:12:24.720 --> 0:12:27.240 to and do, and you know, planes you have to 0:12:27.280 --> 0:12:30.280 fit onto, and it's not quite the same aside from 0:12:30.320 --> 0:12:33.000 like on the red carpet, especially at the at the 0:12:33.000 --> 0:12:36.120 Met Fashion show, Yeah, yeah, there are moments of that, 0:12:36.160 --> 0:12:40.400 but in terms of like general daywear or even evening 0:12:40.440 --> 0:12:42.720 where so much. But that's part of the cycle, is 0:12:42.720 --> 0:12:44.720 that things come out as tour first and then they 0:12:44.760 --> 0:12:47.960 slowly get kind of a little water down and adapted. 0:12:48.160 --> 0:12:52.320 Like many years before the blingy jeans became popular, Like 0:12:52.360 --> 0:12:54.760 if you look about five years before that, Jean Paucautier 0:12:54.960 --> 0:12:58.079 was doing, um what I will never forget. Alan Cumming 0:12:58.160 --> 0:13:00.599 covered one of his shows for some magazine and he 0:13:00.720 --> 0:13:04.079 kept calling them chandelier pants. But they were basically these 0:13:04.160 --> 0:13:08.800 genes that were just dripping with bejewel mint and beaded 0:13:08.880 --> 0:13:11.600 fringe and stuff. And then it's like, if you look 0:13:11.679 --> 0:13:13.360 just a few years later, we got to that point 0:13:13.360 --> 0:13:17.319 where we were in fact getting a lot of rhinestone, um, 0:13:17.520 --> 0:13:20.680 accessorized genes and kind of you know, more of that 0:13:20.760 --> 0:13:24.240 sparkly thing. But it starts hard in the oat coutur 0:13:24.840 --> 0:13:27.360 arena and then it kind of slowly comes down. Well, 0:13:27.360 --> 0:13:29.720 I thought we should try a little fashion experiment to 0:13:29.840 --> 0:13:34.360 see exactly how true Labour's law was to at least 0:13:34.360 --> 0:13:37.559 our experience and what we can see on the internet. 0:13:37.600 --> 0:13:40.080 So I pulled up I thought we should just look 0:13:40.120 --> 0:13:43.360 at some Google image search results for so let's start 0:13:43.360 --> 0:13:48.360 with fashion. So Labour's law says, fashion to us now 0:13:48.400 --> 0:13:51.160 should be doughty. What do we see when we look 0:13:51.200 --> 0:13:56.040 atten fashion? I don't think it's especially dowdy. I would 0:13:56.080 --> 0:13:59.960 not classify most of this is dowdy. Now, Um, where 0:14:00.200 --> 0:14:10.720 we're seeing essentially are actually analyzing at your short people 0:14:10.720 --> 0:14:13.640 are going to be who's going to be modeling? But 0:14:13.960 --> 0:14:18.520 these tall gals are looking really uh yeah yeah, I mean, 0:14:18.559 --> 0:14:20.600 I mean what's actually striking me right now is that 0:14:20.640 --> 0:14:25.160 this A lot of the photographs are things that have 0:14:25.160 --> 0:14:28.920 have have dropped into common fashion in in much the 0:14:28.920 --> 0:14:33.080 way that Holly was just discussing, what uh this nice 0:14:33.120 --> 0:14:37.720 sea through dress. No, um that um, A lot of 0:14:37.760 --> 0:14:43.000 the A line skirts and the kind of bright colors 0:14:43.000 --> 0:14:45.360 and patterns moving away from the color block that was 0:14:45.400 --> 0:14:50.200 popular in and into this sort of busy pattern that's 0:14:50.240 --> 0:14:54.400 popular today. Yeah, a lot of tribal patterns, which you 0:14:54.440 --> 0:14:57.920 know periodically those will crop up in in fashion, and 0:14:58.040 --> 0:15:00.360 but it seems like those were getting more adopted into. 0:15:00.440 --> 0:15:05.680 I mean, you can go to your local department or 0:15:05.720 --> 0:15:07.720 even like a target, and you'll see things that really 0:15:07.760 --> 0:15:11.320 echo this stuff. Okay, here's the thing I just noticed. 0:15:11.360 --> 0:15:14.040 When I type in something like two thousand five fashion, 0:15:14.120 --> 0:15:17.560 pretty much all the results are women. So does this 0:15:17.680 --> 0:15:19.800 just not even give us a window into what men's 0:15:19.840 --> 0:15:22.600 fashion looks like at any given time? And does men's 0:15:22.640 --> 0:15:27.680 fashion change less? Uh? It depends. I mean, I hate 0:15:27.680 --> 0:15:31.600 to keep invoking Gautier, but he does some amazing men's 0:15:31.600 --> 0:15:37.000 where that is very very outside of the norm. Yeah, 0:15:37.080 --> 0:15:40.280 and changes a lot odd Like he's one of those 0:15:40.280 --> 0:15:42.920 designers that does a lot of dresses for men. He 0:15:42.960 --> 0:15:45.400 does a lot of like split leg clothing for men 0:15:46.080 --> 0:15:48.720 that kind of are cut like a gown would be, 0:15:48.800 --> 0:15:54.080 except their pants. Um, he's pretty egalitarian and who gets 0:15:54.120 --> 0:15:57.000 what styles in terms of his men's wear line and 0:15:57.040 --> 0:15:59.920 his women's were line. You know how gender informs fast 0:16:00.000 --> 0:16:02.680 and might be something that's worth talking about in in 0:16:02.720 --> 0:16:06.520 the future of fashion, because I can totally see societal 0:16:06.560 --> 0:16:10.120 attitudes about gender changing the way we have expectations for 0:16:10.160 --> 0:16:13.840 what men and women should wear. Um, but let's let's 0:16:13.840 --> 0:16:16.840 look at least one more. Because Labour's law says that 0:16:18.200 --> 0:16:22.400 fashion should be ridiculous, it probably will be. But I 0:16:22.440 --> 0:16:26.720 love a little ridiculous. Huh. I expected to see more plaid. 0:16:26.920 --> 0:16:30.800 I'm not seeing plaid um not not in the high 0:16:30.880 --> 0:16:35.640 fashion range. No, but oh man, here's here's in fact 0:16:35.720 --> 0:16:39.240 some of that. There's a poster for Empire Records. Yeah. 0:16:40.320 --> 0:16:44.520 Oh and clueless. Yeah, what did nine fashion look like? 0:16:44.600 --> 0:16:47.800 Explain this to me? I don't know what I'm seeing. Uh, 0:16:48.160 --> 0:16:52.280 you know, I kind of look at the mid nineties 0:16:52.440 --> 0:16:55.920 in terms of fashion as a big old miss like 0:16:56.000 --> 0:16:58.720 I always have, because we were coming off the popularity 0:16:58.720 --> 0:17:01.480 of grunge and that whole so r where people were like, 0:17:01.520 --> 0:17:04.480 no dress up, forget that, dressed down, get really sloppy 0:17:04.520 --> 0:17:07.320 and sloppy is where it's at, and super relaxed shows 0:17:07.359 --> 0:17:10.960 how you know cool I am. But there were still 0:17:10.960 --> 0:17:13.199 people going to know, let's make a pretty frock. Come on, 0:17:13.280 --> 0:17:16.080 let's get it. Yeah. And there's also that influence of 0:17:16.160 --> 0:17:20.320 the very where your wealth hip hop culture, segment of 0:17:20.359 --> 0:17:23.600 hip hop culture that was becoming very prevalent and even 0:17:23.600 --> 0:17:26.080 crossing over into some of the grunge. Where the way 0:17:26.119 --> 0:17:28.240 that we're seeing in some of these images of the 0:17:28.600 --> 0:17:32.399 crop tops and the miniskirts um that we're also influenced 0:17:32.440 --> 0:17:36.840 by the mod movement of the nineteen sixties. There's a 0:17:36.880 --> 0:17:40.240 really groovy dress in these results with some beautiful optical 0:17:40.280 --> 0:17:43.960 illusion on it that I'm we need those. Okay, let's 0:17:43.960 --> 0:17:46.520 look at one more before we move on to the future. 0:17:46.640 --> 0:17:51.240 The past of nineteen fifteen fashion. Now, according to Labor's law, 0:17:51.680 --> 0:17:55.040 nineteen fifteen fashion should be romantic. And what I assume 0:17:55.480 --> 0:17:58.320 Labor means by that is not like you know, oh, 0:17:58.400 --> 0:18:00.720 we're going out on a date romance tick, but as 0:18:00.760 --> 0:18:04.920 in like it's a romantic notion having like high emotions, 0:18:05.000 --> 0:18:09.639 and right we romanticize its place in the cultural landscape. Yes, sure, um, 0:18:09.800 --> 0:18:11.439 I and I don't know I would go out on 0:18:11.480 --> 0:18:14.560 a date with some of these hats for sure. Well, 0:18:14.720 --> 0:18:17.600 you've also stumbled into, um, the period of one of 0:18:17.640 --> 0:18:20.560 my favorite designers of all time Paul Poire who just 0:18:20.600 --> 0:18:24.200 did mild and beautiful things. Uh. He was the one 0:18:24.240 --> 0:18:27.560 who designed if you guys watched down to Nabbey, those 0:18:27.640 --> 0:18:30.399 beautiful Harem pants that the youngest daughter got in a 0:18:30.400 --> 0:18:34.679 little bit of scandal ye for wearing correct Yes, he 0:18:35.119 --> 0:18:38.720 uh is a fascinating gent we um. We did a 0:18:38.760 --> 0:18:40.920 podcast on him on mist in History at one point, 0:18:40.920 --> 0:18:42.320 and one of the cool things that he did was 0:18:42.359 --> 0:18:45.880 he was sort of one of the first designers who 0:18:45.960 --> 0:18:50.600 understood branding, Like he also put out like in addition 0:18:50.600 --> 0:18:52.800 to clothing lines, like he had a little school that 0:18:52.840 --> 0:18:56.680 produced its own art pieces, in its own stationary pieces, 0:18:56.680 --> 0:18:59.560 and they were all branded Pire and he just had 0:18:59.600 --> 0:19:02.240 a He would also have parties where if the ladies 0:19:02.240 --> 0:19:04.560 weren't dressed properly, he would dress them before they could 0:19:04.600 --> 0:19:10.760 come in. That sounds both awful and amazing, Like I 0:19:10.760 --> 0:19:13.680 would have gone into all of those parties. Yeah. Uh 0:19:13.920 --> 0:19:17.280 So what was what was going on in nineteen fifteen? 0:19:17.400 --> 0:19:20.719 A lot of these clothes are are historically interesting because 0:19:21.400 --> 0:19:23.200 during that period we were in the middle of World 0:19:23.200 --> 0:19:27.320 War One, so a lot of fabrics and styles were 0:19:27.359 --> 0:19:30.280 becoming more streamlined and simple. I think is people kind 0:19:30.280 --> 0:19:33.520 of tightened their belts literally and figuratively. And also we 0:19:33.520 --> 0:19:37.080 were in the middle of the women's suffragette movement and uh, 0:19:37.520 --> 0:19:42.040 moving away from the giant corsets and giant bustles and 0:19:42.160 --> 0:19:45.040 restrictive skirts and all of that thing into something a 0:19:45.040 --> 0:19:50.600 little bit more movable and breathable. Yes, giggles, No, that 0:19:50.640 --> 0:19:53.280 sounds very insightful. I had. I'm just all I'm seeing 0:19:53.359 --> 0:19:58.440 is ankle length everything. All dresses our ankle length, and 0:19:58.520 --> 0:20:02.280 all the men are wearing ankle coats. Well, we hadn't 0:20:02.320 --> 0:20:05.639 quite escaped. Dresses didn't lift so much yet. Given another 0:20:05.920 --> 0:20:08.480 five years and they'll start popping up. Yeah, those helms 0:20:08.520 --> 0:20:10.639 will start shortening. All I can think of, though, is 0:20:10.880 --> 0:20:14.439 Mary Poppins, but that's just me. Yes, since they have 0:20:14.520 --> 0:20:18.679 the whole Suffragette movement song, it's very exciting, yeah, and 0:20:18.800 --> 0:20:22.120 lots of very gorgeous gowns. And I romanticized the whole thing. 0:20:22.240 --> 0:20:25.680 And this is also, you know, around the Titanic time, 0:20:25.800 --> 0:20:28.520 so think about those for a visual for any listeners. 0:20:28.560 --> 0:20:31.920 So I guess, I guess we do romanticize the Edwardian 0:20:32.000 --> 0:20:35.479 period because because this is this is still Edwardian light, 0:20:35.560 --> 0:20:38.840 Edwardian sure. All right, Well, let's take what we've learned 0:20:38.840 --> 0:20:41.159 and see if we can make any predictions about the 0:20:41.160 --> 0:20:43.320 future of fashion. One of the things that's sticking with 0:20:43.359 --> 0:20:45.400 me that came up a minute ago was the role 0:20:45.560 --> 0:20:50.240 of gender in what's fashionable for people to wear. Oh yeah, 0:20:50.320 --> 0:20:53.360 and there's been a few news items lately about upcoming 0:20:53.760 --> 0:20:57.080 clothing lines or pop up stores that incorporate a more 0:20:57.400 --> 0:21:01.679 unisex look. Yeah. In January of this year, self Ridges 0:21:01.880 --> 0:21:04.520 in London actually did a pop up unisex store where 0:21:04.520 --> 0:21:08.520 they offered everything from bathing suits to like, you think, 0:21:08.520 --> 0:21:11.040 it's very easy to sort of unisex things like tops, 0:21:11.080 --> 0:21:13.199 like a T shirt is you know, kind of carries 0:21:13.200 --> 0:21:15.840 across everyone, even though there are different cuts. Those are 0:21:15.840 --> 0:21:19.600 easy to kind of consider, uh, gender neutral. But they 0:21:19.640 --> 0:21:21.479 really have kind of been like, no, let's all wear 0:21:21.480 --> 0:21:24.439 the same swimsuit bottoms, let's all wear the same you know, 0:21:24.520 --> 0:21:28.080 kind of more body conscious styles. It's kind of fun. Yeah, 0:21:28.800 --> 0:21:30.679 And and you can you can see that on on 0:21:30.800 --> 0:21:34.199 the street and the type of pants, for example, that 0:21:34.320 --> 0:21:38.159 men and women are wearing these days that are you know, 0:21:38.240 --> 0:21:40.679 for for a certain body type. Everyone is just wearing 0:21:40.840 --> 0:21:45.280 skinny leg uh type jeans well, and they're even I 0:21:45.320 --> 0:21:47.800 mean a bunch of different clothing stores and clothing lines 0:21:47.840 --> 0:21:51.399 that offer what's called the boyfriend gene basically boycott jeans 0:21:51.400 --> 0:21:54.560 that are slightly altered for a woman's figure. Yeah, for 0:21:54.840 --> 0:21:59.680 hips essentially. Yeah. I love watching the look on Joe's 0:21:59.680 --> 0:22:02.360 face as we discuss fashion, because eyes just get big 0:22:02.400 --> 0:22:11.960 at moments there. Um. Uh. American apparel Um has announced 0:22:12.000 --> 0:22:14.280 that in the fall they're going to be introducing a 0:22:14.280 --> 0:22:19.560 few gender neutral pieces in they're in their very widespread stores. Um. 0:22:19.640 --> 0:22:23.160 And you know historically that the trend of unisex clothing 0:22:23.240 --> 0:22:26.760 is is nothing new. Uh No, I mean it's happened periodically. 0:22:27.359 --> 0:22:29.719