1 00:00:01,080 --> 00:00:04,040 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff you Missed in History Class from how 2 00:00:04,120 --> 00:00:14,640 Speaker 1: Stuff Works dot com. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. 3 00:00:14,800 --> 00:00:18,600 Speaker 1: I am Tracy V. Wilson. I'm Holly from so Holly. 4 00:00:18,840 --> 00:00:21,680 Speaker 1: How often have you heard somebody say history is written 5 00:00:21,720 --> 00:00:23,720 Speaker 1: by the victors? I can't even count how many times 6 00:00:23,760 --> 00:00:25,279 Speaker 1: I've said it. I know we've said it a lot 7 00:00:26,920 --> 00:00:29,840 Speaker 1: on this podcast. Today, we're gonna talk about a pretty 8 00:00:29,880 --> 00:00:33,800 Speaker 1: giant exception to that conventional wisdom, which is the Pueblo 9 00:00:33,960 --> 00:00:38,199 Speaker 1: Revolt of sixteen eighty. And in this revolt, Native American 10 00:00:38,240 --> 00:00:41,720 Speaker 1: people's who are collectively known as the Pueblos, rose up 11 00:00:41,800 --> 00:00:45,520 Speaker 1: in Unison against Spanish colonists and missionaries who had started 12 00:00:45,560 --> 00:00:48,080 Speaker 1: settling the area at the turn of the seventeenth century. 13 00:00:48,680 --> 00:00:52,600 Speaker 1: These settlers were Catholic and had begun systematically converting the 14 00:00:52,680 --> 00:00:56,040 Speaker 1: native population, and had also forbidden the practice of the 15 00:00:56,080 --> 00:01:00,160 Speaker 1: pueblos traditional religions. So on August tenth, sixteen eighty, the 16 00:01:00,160 --> 00:01:05,000 Speaker 1: Pueblos and multiple villages rose up simultaneously against the settlers. 17 00:01:05,040 --> 00:01:08,120 Speaker 1: They threw off the colonial government and lived outside of 18 00:01:08,120 --> 00:01:12,440 Speaker 1: Spanish rule for the next twelve years. This was probably 19 00:01:12,640 --> 00:01:17,200 Speaker 1: the most successful indigenous uprisings in North American history. But 20 00:01:17,680 --> 00:01:20,920 Speaker 1: because the Pueblos were not keeping written records of their 21 00:01:20,959 --> 00:01:23,760 Speaker 1: history at the time, it was a largely oral tradition. 22 00:01:24,319 --> 00:01:26,440 Speaker 1: Most of the history on this one was actually written 23 00:01:26,440 --> 00:01:29,520 Speaker 1: by the losing side. Where we do have written records 24 00:01:29,560 --> 00:01:31,520 Speaker 1: of the Native American point of view, it's in the 25 00:01:31,560 --> 00:01:35,120 Speaker 1: form of testimony that was given orally by Pueblo peoples 26 00:01:35,240 --> 00:01:38,720 Speaker 1: and written down by Spanish priests. So it's clearly not 27 00:01:38,880 --> 00:01:42,560 Speaker 1: an unbiased account where we do have the Native American 28 00:01:42,600 --> 00:01:45,480 Speaker 1: perspective on things. Since we're going to talk about today 29 00:01:46,520 --> 00:01:51,400 Speaker 1: this huge revolt of which we have very little record 30 00:01:51,600 --> 00:01:56,840 Speaker 1: of the victor side. Uh So, for background, before the 31 00:01:56,960 --> 00:01:59,840 Speaker 1: arrival of European settlers, the part of the world that's 32 00:01:59,840 --> 00:02:03,040 Speaker 1: an now northern Mexico and the southwestern United States was 33 00:02:03,080 --> 00:02:06,240 Speaker 1: home to several tribes of Native peoples who fit very 34 00:02:06,280 --> 00:02:09,600 Speaker 1: broadly into two groups. And one group was the more 35 00:02:09,639 --> 00:02:13,160 Speaker 1: mobile hunter gatherer peoples and then included the Navajo in 36 00:02:13,200 --> 00:02:16,560 Speaker 1: the Apache, and the other group included the Native Americans 37 00:02:16,840 --> 00:02:20,600 Speaker 1: who were living in established permanent settlements that Spanish colonists 38 00:02:20,639 --> 00:02:26,200 Speaker 1: dubbed pueblos. So pueblos are communal living situations with terraces 39 00:02:26,200 --> 00:02:29,400 Speaker 1: and flat roofs. They are built around a central court 40 00:02:29,480 --> 00:02:34,280 Speaker 1: and above an underground ceremonial chamber called a kiva. Once 41 00:02:34,360 --> 00:02:37,799 Speaker 1: the Spanish coined the term pueblos, the various peoples who 42 00:02:37,840 --> 00:02:40,799 Speaker 1: lived in them came to be collectively known as the 43 00:02:40,840 --> 00:02:45,079 Speaker 1: Pueblo Indians, and the Pueblo peoples are most likely descended 44 00:02:45,120 --> 00:02:48,120 Speaker 1: from the Anasazi, and they include the Hopie and the Zuni, 45 00:02:48,240 --> 00:02:52,200 Speaker 1: among others. Pueblos do still exist today, and one of them, 46 00:02:52,240 --> 00:02:55,560 Speaker 1: the Acoma Pueblo, is believed to be the oldest continually 47 00:02:55,560 --> 00:02:58,960 Speaker 1: inhabited place in the United States. Uh people have lived 48 00:02:58,960 --> 00:03:02,040 Speaker 1: in it since about the year twelve hundred, so although 49 00:03:02,200 --> 00:03:06,639 Speaker 1: the Pueblo people's lived in similar looking structures, this wasn't 50 00:03:06,800 --> 00:03:11,000 Speaker 1: and isn't one homogeneous group of people. The Pueblo spoke 51 00:03:11,120 --> 00:03:14,359 Speaker 1: seven different languages in the sixteen hundreds, although some may 52 00:03:14,360 --> 00:03:19,119 Speaker 1: have spoken Spanish as well. Each individual pueblo governed itself 53 00:03:19,160 --> 00:03:22,239 Speaker 1: and had its own customs and its own cultural nuances. 54 00:03:23,680 --> 00:03:26,799 Speaker 1: Spain made its way to this part of the world 55 00:03:26,840 --> 00:03:29,440 Speaker 1: with the intent to conquer land and convert the people 56 00:03:29,440 --> 00:03:32,800 Speaker 1: living there to Christianity. At Last, but not least, on 57 00:03:32,840 --> 00:03:35,880 Speaker 1: their agenda was finding a bunch of treasure, and some 58 00:03:36,000 --> 00:03:39,480 Speaker 1: of that would fold back in to fund their first 59 00:03:39,520 --> 00:03:42,880 Speaker 1: and second agendas, and in a lot of vis the 60 00:03:42,920 --> 00:03:47,480 Speaker 1: primary agenda was really treasure um, but the treasure there 61 00:03:47,560 --> 00:03:50,680 Speaker 1: was in some some components of it, like the the 62 00:03:50,720 --> 00:03:54,160 Speaker 1: treasure had an end besides just treasure in itself right, 63 00:03:54,200 --> 00:03:59,080 Speaker 1: and that was conquering and converting. Spanish settlers made contact 64 00:03:59,120 --> 00:04:02,000 Speaker 1: with the Pueblo people in the early fifteen hundreds when 65 00:04:02,120 --> 00:04:05,200 Speaker 1: Marcus Deniza, who was a Franciscan friar, claimed the whole 66 00:04:05,240 --> 00:04:10,320 Speaker 1: region for Spain. The infamous conquistador Coronado also made his 67 00:04:10,400 --> 00:04:15,320 Speaker 1: way through in fifteen forty, and Conquistador Juan Deonte made 68 00:04:15,400 --> 00:04:19,480 Speaker 1: a voyage there with four hundred settlers in Fife. At 69 00:04:19,520 --> 00:04:22,560 Speaker 1: that point he established New Mexico as a Spanish colony, 70 00:04:22,600 --> 00:04:25,680 Speaker 1: and that's really when Spanish colonization of the area started. 71 00:04:25,720 --> 00:04:30,919 Speaker 1: In earnest and the whole vast hordes of treasure idea 72 00:04:31,120 --> 00:04:33,960 Speaker 1: didn't pan out for New Mexico, and Spain wanted to 73 00:04:34,000 --> 00:04:37,000 Speaker 1: abandon the area, but the Franciscans made a case for 74 00:04:37,040 --> 00:04:40,000 Speaker 1: their mission work being far too advanced to just come 75 00:04:40,040 --> 00:04:43,120 Speaker 1: to an end abruptly, so they continued on with the 76 00:04:43,120 --> 00:04:46,760 Speaker 1: aim of converting the indigenous population and ministering to the 77 00:04:46,760 --> 00:04:50,080 Speaker 1: ones that they had already been successful in converting. In 78 00:04:50,080 --> 00:04:54,400 Speaker 1: addition to trying to convert the indigenous population to Catholicism, 79 00:04:54,440 --> 00:04:59,280 Speaker 1: the Spanish authorities also forbade traditional religious practices. So when 80 00:04:59,320 --> 00:05:02,280 Speaker 1: they arrived a Pueblo village, the Spanish would start by 81 00:05:02,320 --> 00:05:06,640 Speaker 1: destroying the kiva, which was used for religious and cultural 82 00:05:06,680 --> 00:05:09,719 Speaker 1: ceremonies and also it was kind of like a gathering place. 83 00:05:10,400 --> 00:05:13,800 Speaker 1: Um sometimes they would build the church directly over the 84 00:05:13,920 --> 00:05:19,640 Speaker 1: kiva site. The Spanish also destroyed masks and other items 85 00:05:19,680 --> 00:05:23,000 Speaker 1: that were associated with cachinas, and these were spirit beings 86 00:05:23,000 --> 00:05:27,680 Speaker 1: worshiped in traditional pit Pueblo religions. The Native Americans who 87 00:05:27,720 --> 00:05:31,480 Speaker 1: resisted the Spanish were often subject to imprisonment and torture, 88 00:05:32,880 --> 00:05:36,960 Speaker 1: and in a recurring theme regarding the colonization of the America's, 89 00:05:37,360 --> 00:05:42,040 Speaker 1: the settlers introduced measles, smallpox, and typhus. Up to eight 90 00:05:42,560 --> 00:05:45,279 Speaker 1: of the Pueblo population actually died in the years after 91 00:05:45,360 --> 00:05:49,200 Speaker 1: first contact due to disease. Yeah, but this was not 92 00:05:49,320 --> 00:05:51,240 Speaker 1: a wholly a one sided thing. There was there were 93 00:05:51,240 --> 00:05:56,039 Speaker 1: also diseases brought back to Europe from the colonies, but 94 00:05:56,279 --> 00:06:01,200 Speaker 1: not not nearly with the lethal ramifications has happened in 95 00:06:01,200 --> 00:06:08,120 Speaker 1: the America a lot huge. The Spanish also implemented taxation 96 00:06:08,279 --> 00:06:11,000 Speaker 1: in their colonies, and the rates of taxation were so 97 00:06:11,120 --> 00:06:14,640 Speaker 1: high that over about a decade, the Spanish went from 98 00:06:14,640 --> 00:06:18,359 Speaker 1: asking the Pueblos for food to help them get started 99 00:06:18,400 --> 00:06:21,800 Speaker 1: with their colony, to instead the Pueblos asking the Spanish 100 00:06:21,800 --> 00:06:24,760 Speaker 1: for food that had been taxed away from them. And 101 00:06:24,800 --> 00:06:27,919 Speaker 1: to add to all of this, a drought started in 102 00:06:28,000 --> 00:06:32,080 Speaker 1: sixteen sixty six that lasted for four years before the 103 00:06:32,160 --> 00:06:35,640 Speaker 1: arrival of the Spanish. The Pueblo people survived drought by 104 00:06:35,720 --> 00:06:38,719 Speaker 1: keeping stockpiles of food and trading with one another. It 105 00:06:38,839 --> 00:06:42,000 Speaker 1: was very cooperative, but the Spanish had taxed them so 106 00:06:42,120 --> 00:06:45,120 Speaker 1: heavily that no one had a stockpile, and trade among 107 00:06:45,120 --> 00:06:48,760 Speaker 1: the pueblos was prohibited. Raids by the apaches on the 108 00:06:48,800 --> 00:06:52,520 Speaker 1: remaining meager stores made things even harder, so basically all 109 00:06:52,560 --> 00:06:55,120 Speaker 1: of their resources were stripped from them right and then 110 00:06:55,120 --> 00:06:58,240 Speaker 1: there was an epidemic of an unknown and deeply deadly 111 00:06:58,279 --> 00:07:01,640 Speaker 1: disease in six seventy one, and and all of this, 112 00:07:01,880 --> 00:07:05,480 Speaker 1: of course had a measurable effect on the Pueblo population. 113 00:07:06,080 --> 00:07:08,640 Speaker 1: Over the seventy five years between the real start of 114 00:07:08,680 --> 00:07:12,440 Speaker 1: Spanish settlement and the revolt, the number of pueblos dropped 115 00:07:12,440 --> 00:07:16,840 Speaker 1: from about one hundred to about forty existing today are 116 00:07:16,840 --> 00:07:20,440 Speaker 1: about twenty. In the minds of many Pueblo peoples at 117 00:07:20,440 --> 00:07:23,840 Speaker 1: the time, life was getting harder and harder, specifically because 118 00:07:23,880 --> 00:07:27,120 Speaker 1: they were not being allowed to perform their religious observances. 119 00:07:28,200 --> 00:07:30,560 Speaker 1: Like a Western idea of this might be that God 120 00:07:30,680 --> 00:07:35,280 Speaker 1: was exacting vengeance because he was not being worshiped enough, 121 00:07:35,880 --> 00:07:39,200 Speaker 1: but this was more a worldview that that those observances 122 00:07:39,240 --> 00:07:43,280 Speaker 1: were crucial to maintaining their quality of life and the 123 00:07:43,320 --> 00:07:45,440 Speaker 1: way that the world was supposed to work, and without 124 00:07:45,440 --> 00:07:49,480 Speaker 1: those observances going on, that things were going off the rails. Well, yeah, 125 00:07:49,480 --> 00:07:52,680 Speaker 1: their entire culture had been upended and most of their 126 00:07:53,600 --> 00:07:58,440 Speaker 1: traditions stripped away. So yes, that will pretty much ruin 127 00:07:58,480 --> 00:08:03,440 Speaker 1: your life. Your structure has been completely taken away. UH. 128 00:08:03,640 --> 00:08:07,400 Speaker 1: Spanish authorities cracked down harder on descent after the Acoma 129 00:08:07,480 --> 00:08:12,480 Speaker 1: revolt in and in this revolt, the Acoma Pueblo attacked 130 00:08:12,480 --> 00:08:15,400 Speaker 1: a party of Spanish people who asked them for supplies. 131 00:08:16,960 --> 00:08:20,800 Speaker 1: So UH, Spanish authorities had cracked down harder on Descent 132 00:08:21,120 --> 00:08:24,200 Speaker 1: after an event that actually took place some time before 133 00:08:24,640 --> 00:08:28,800 Speaker 1: in and that was the Acoma Revolt. And in this revolt, 134 00:08:28,800 --> 00:08:31,800 Speaker 1: the Acoma Pueblo attacked a party of Spanish people who 135 00:08:31,800 --> 00:08:35,240 Speaker 1: had asked them for supplies. The Spanish then burned down 136 00:08:35,240 --> 00:08:38,199 Speaker 1: the town and massacred every male living there who was 137 00:08:38,280 --> 00:08:43,319 Speaker 1: over the age of And in the aftermath of this revolt, floggings, 138 00:08:43,320 --> 00:08:47,400 Speaker 1: public executions, and sentences of slavery became more common. So 139 00:08:47,480 --> 00:08:51,240 Speaker 1: after that whole thing had happened, the Spanish basically their 140 00:08:51,280 --> 00:08:56,679 Speaker 1: approach to anything was going to be swift and cruel, 141 00:08:57,679 --> 00:09:03,080 Speaker 1: pretty hands yeah yeah, um so over the development of 142 00:09:03,440 --> 00:09:06,240 Speaker 1: you know, the diseases and taxation that we just talked about. 143 00:09:06,320 --> 00:09:09,760 Speaker 1: Other revolts were also going on, but because the pueblos 144 00:09:09,800 --> 00:09:11,880 Speaker 1: were so spread out, most of them were really too 145 00:09:11,880 --> 00:09:15,479 Speaker 1: small to be effective. And in some cases Native Americans 146 00:09:15,520 --> 00:09:17,719 Speaker 1: who were loyal to the Spanish had tipped them off 147 00:09:17,720 --> 00:09:21,120 Speaker 1: to what was happening. So there was resistance going on 148 00:09:21,280 --> 00:09:24,439 Speaker 1: through this whole time, but it wasn't really strong enough 149 00:09:24,480 --> 00:09:27,760 Speaker 1: to gain a foothold. There was a little piece meal yeah. Uh. 150 00:09:27,800 --> 00:09:31,160 Speaker 1: In sixteen seventy five, Spanish authorities rounded up forty seven 151 00:09:31,200 --> 00:09:35,920 Speaker 1: Pueblo religious leaders and convicted them of sorcery and conspiring 152 00:09:35,960 --> 00:09:39,240 Speaker 1: to rebel. These leaders who were beaten publicly and they 153 00:09:39,280 --> 00:09:43,360 Speaker 1: were sentenced to slavery. Four were sentenced to execution, though 154 00:09:43,440 --> 00:09:47,000 Speaker 1: one of them committed suicide rather than be executed. One 155 00:09:47,040 --> 00:09:50,120 Speaker 1: of the imprisoned holy leaders was a man named Pope, 156 00:09:50,360 --> 00:09:53,840 Speaker 1: and he was from San Juan Pueblo. Pope and the 157 00:09:53,880 --> 00:09:57,280 Speaker 1: other leaders were released that same year. Pope went to 158 00:09:57,280 --> 00:10:01,800 Speaker 1: the northernmost pueblo, Taos Pueblo. There he reported being visited 159 00:10:01,800 --> 00:10:05,520 Speaker 1: by three spirits who gave him a prophecy abundance would 160 00:10:05,559 --> 00:10:09,400 Speaker 1: return to the pueblos if they purged their world of Spaniards. 161 00:10:09,440 --> 00:10:12,280 Speaker 1: So the Spanish described this event as having had a 162 00:10:12,320 --> 00:10:15,520 Speaker 1: conversation with the devil, and most of the Spanish writing 163 00:10:15,559 --> 00:10:18,640 Speaker 1: about the revolt from the time characterizes it as the 164 00:10:18,640 --> 00:10:21,360 Speaker 1: work of the devil, not as a result of Spanish 165 00:10:21,400 --> 00:10:26,840 Speaker 1: oppression or of the pueblos grievances against the Spanish colonists. So, 166 00:10:26,960 --> 00:10:29,600 Speaker 1: over a period of years, Pope started to organize the 167 00:10:29,600 --> 00:10:32,880 Speaker 1: Pueblo people, who were living in villages that spanned up 168 00:10:32,880 --> 00:10:35,760 Speaker 1: and down the Rio Grande Valley, and they sprawled out 169 00:10:35,880 --> 00:10:38,520 Speaker 1: over more than three hundred miles of territory from east 170 00:10:38,559 --> 00:10:41,920 Speaker 1: to west. So to address the language barrier that we 171 00:10:42,000 --> 00:10:45,120 Speaker 1: referenced earlier, which was one of the things that had 172 00:10:45,120 --> 00:10:48,200 Speaker 1: prevented all these different pueblos from uniting in the past, 173 00:10:48,679 --> 00:10:52,439 Speaker 1: Pope gave each of the villages a knotted chord, which 174 00:10:52,480 --> 00:10:56,800 Speaker 1: he delivered to them using runners, and the villages were 175 00:10:56,800 --> 00:10:59,920 Speaker 1: supposed to un not one knot from the court every day, 176 00:11:00,120 --> 00:11:02,480 Speaker 1: and on the day that the last knot was untied, 177 00:11:02,559 --> 00:11:04,520 Speaker 1: that would be the day that everyone was to rise 178 00:11:04,600 --> 00:11:07,880 Speaker 1: up against the Spanish. And also given to the runners 179 00:11:07,920 --> 00:11:11,400 Speaker 1: were pieces of deer skin that were marked with pictograms. 180 00:11:11,840 --> 00:11:14,840 Speaker 1: Pope rehearsed their meaning with the runners before they left. 181 00:11:15,480 --> 00:11:18,880 Speaker 1: So the plan was to simultaneously attack the Spanish and 182 00:11:18,960 --> 00:11:22,600 Speaker 1: all these different villages using weapons that people had stockpiled 183 00:11:22,600 --> 00:11:25,920 Speaker 1: and hidden, and then to destroy the churches and kill 184 00:11:26,000 --> 00:11:28,800 Speaker 1: the priests, and then to kill the Spanish or drive 185 00:11:28,840 --> 00:11:32,320 Speaker 1: them out of their towns. From there, the pueblos planned 186 00:11:32,400 --> 00:11:35,439 Speaker 1: to converge to turn their attention to the Spanish capital 187 00:11:35,480 --> 00:11:39,120 Speaker 1: at Santa Fe. Two of the runners that Pope sent 188 00:11:39,120 --> 00:11:42,440 Speaker 1: out were captured, giving the Spanish advanced warning of what 189 00:11:42,480 --> 00:11:46,040 Speaker 1: was going to happen. Additional runners were dispatched to tell 190 00:11:46,080 --> 00:11:49,839 Speaker 1: all the pueblos to move the revolution. Earlier news didn't 191 00:11:49,840 --> 00:11:52,160 Speaker 1: make it to all the outlining pueblos in time, and 192 00:11:52,200 --> 00:11:55,240 Speaker 1: a few pueblos appeared to have declined to participate in 193 00:11:55,280 --> 00:11:57,559 Speaker 1: the plan. Yes, there are some descriptions of this that 194 00:11:57,600 --> 00:11:59,839 Speaker 1: make it sound as though this is a completely you 195 00:12:00,040 --> 00:12:04,200 Speaker 1: unanimous action on the part of the pueblos, and for 196 00:12:04,480 --> 00:12:06,960 Speaker 1: a lot of reasons it wasn't was. Some of them 197 00:12:07,080 --> 00:12:09,680 Speaker 1: seemed not to have gotten the news from the runners 198 00:12:09,720 --> 00:12:13,200 Speaker 1: in time. Others seemed to have consciously made the decision 199 00:12:14,200 --> 00:12:17,360 Speaker 1: for whatever reason, either because they were sympathetic to the 200 00:12:17,400 --> 00:12:22,319 Speaker 1: Spanish or were allied with the Spanish, decided not to 201 00:12:22,320 --> 00:12:26,520 Speaker 1: to attack the people who were living there at that point. So, 202 00:12:26,600 --> 00:12:29,760 Speaker 1: regardless of all of that, on August tenth, sight many 203 00:12:29,800 --> 00:12:32,839 Speaker 1: of the pueblos, along with allies from the Apache and 204 00:12:32,880 --> 00:12:37,520 Speaker 1: the Navajo, attacked in more than twenty villages. Together, they 205 00:12:37,640 --> 00:12:41,000 Speaker 1: killed four d and one Spanish soldiers and civilians, including 206 00:12:41,040 --> 00:12:44,280 Speaker 1: twenty one Franciscan priests, and that was about two thirds 207 00:12:44,400 --> 00:12:47,320 Speaker 1: of the ecclesiastical force living in New Mexico at the time. 208 00:12:48,120 --> 00:12:51,760 Speaker 1: We have absolutely no casualty count on the Native American side. 209 00:12:51,800 --> 00:12:55,800 Speaker 1: We have no idea how many pueblos died during the fighting. 210 00:12:56,600 --> 00:12:59,520 Speaker 1: At least one priest, who was Father Juan gray Robe, 211 00:12:59,520 --> 00:13:04,200 Speaker 1: a Zoomi Pueblo, reportedly survived by putting aside Catholicism and 212 00:13:04,240 --> 00:13:08,240 Speaker 1: taking up Pueblo practices, and he eventually married a Zuni wife. 213 00:13:08,720 --> 00:13:11,160 Speaker 1: There's a lot that's actually unclear about this story, though, 214 00:13:11,160 --> 00:13:14,960 Speaker 1: since it's pieced together from multiple testimonies that were given 215 00:13:15,080 --> 00:13:18,520 Speaker 1: orally by Native Americans and then written down by Spanish priests, 216 00:13:19,080 --> 00:13:23,439 Speaker 1: so the veracity of any element of it is a 217 00:13:23,440 --> 00:13:26,760 Speaker 1: little bit questionable. Yeah, we've sort of established that this 218 00:13:26,840 --> 00:13:30,160 Speaker 1: is probably what happened. Um later in a part that 219 00:13:30,160 --> 00:13:31,600 Speaker 1: we will get to in a bit, the Spanish did 220 00:13:31,679 --> 00:13:36,520 Speaker 1: return and apparently found this, particularly this particular pueblo still 221 00:13:36,559 --> 00:13:40,480 Speaker 1: practicing a lot of elements of Catholic religion um led 222 00:13:40,520 --> 00:13:45,439 Speaker 1: by Father Juan gray Robe, who had kind of assimilated 223 00:13:45,720 --> 00:13:50,679 Speaker 1: into the Pueblo culture. Fascinating. That could be a podcast 224 00:13:50,679 --> 00:13:53,240 Speaker 1: in of itself, I would imagine if we had better record, 225 00:13:53,360 --> 00:13:56,240 Speaker 1: if we had enough records to do that, which we 226 00:13:56,280 --> 00:13:59,559 Speaker 1: really don't. Once the fighting was done in the villages, 227 00:13:59,760 --> 00:14:04,400 Speaker 1: of warriors attacked the colonial headquarters at Santa Fe, and 228 00:14:04,520 --> 00:14:08,480 Speaker 1: survivors in Santa Fe and from the surrounding villages all 229 00:14:08,520 --> 00:14:12,640 Speaker 1: fled to the Governor's palace and there uh they were 230 00:14:12,720 --> 00:14:17,480 Speaker 1: laid siege to. Eventually the pueblos cut off the water supply. 231 00:14:18,640 --> 00:14:22,200 Speaker 1: Another group of refugees fled to the Isletic Pueblo, which 232 00:14:22,240 --> 00:14:24,640 Speaker 1: was seventy miles to the south and apparently had not 233 00:14:24,680 --> 00:14:28,200 Speaker 1: taken part in the fighting. The Lieutenant Governor was there 234 00:14:28,280 --> 00:14:32,040 Speaker 1: with a group of survivors, and eventually, on August twenty one, 235 00:14:32,160 --> 00:14:35,760 Speaker 1: the governor decided to abandon New Mexico. He and the 236 00:14:35,800 --> 00:14:38,840 Speaker 1: survivors who had taken refuge in Santa Fe managed to 237 00:14:38,840 --> 00:14:41,840 Speaker 1: flee down the Rio grand And exactly whether this is 238 00:14:41,880 --> 00:14:44,640 Speaker 1: because they were allowed to go or we're just strong 239 00:14:44,760 --> 00:14:47,760 Speaker 1: enough presents not to be messed with is still a 240 00:14:47,800 --> 00:14:51,400 Speaker 1: matter of some debate. Uh. The Lieutenant governor decided to 241 00:14:51,440 --> 00:14:54,160 Speaker 1: abandon New Mexico as well. Yeah, we pretty much know 242 00:14:54,240 --> 00:14:57,520 Speaker 1: that they all left and the Native Americans allowed them 243 00:14:57,560 --> 00:15:01,240 Speaker 1: to leave, but we have no record of the rationale 244 00:15:01,520 --> 00:15:05,320 Speaker 1: for uh why everyone was allowed to leave. At this point, Yeah, 245 00:15:05,400 --> 00:15:07,160 Speaker 1: they cut a deal, or if they just were strong 246 00:15:07,280 --> 00:15:09,400 Speaker 1: enough that they were like, we're just gonna let this happen. 247 00:15:10,200 --> 00:15:13,160 Speaker 1: Along with some of the Pueblo peoples who were loyal 248 00:15:13,200 --> 00:15:15,920 Speaker 1: to Spain, everyone went to El Paso del Norte which 249 00:15:15,920 --> 00:15:20,400 Speaker 1: today is Warrez, Mexico, and for twelve years the pueblos 250 00:15:20,400 --> 00:15:24,160 Speaker 1: were actually free from colonial rule. And before we talk 251 00:15:24,200 --> 00:15:28,040 Speaker 1: about um sort of how this all played out for 252 00:15:28,080 --> 00:15:30,760 Speaker 1: the next twelve years, how it affected life in New 253 00:15:30,800 --> 00:15:33,920 Speaker 1: Mexico for the next while. Well, let's take a moment 254 00:15:34,160 --> 00:15:37,480 Speaker 1: and talk about our sponsor. That sounds grand to the 255 00:15:37,560 --> 00:15:41,960 Speaker 1: aftermath of the Pueblo revolt. Yeah, So after the revolt, 256 00:15:42,120 --> 00:15:45,880 Speaker 1: Pope toured the pueblos and instructed people to really throw 257 00:15:45,960 --> 00:15:50,360 Speaker 1: off all Spanish influence. Many people underwent a ritual bathing 258 00:15:50,400 --> 00:15:53,840 Speaker 1: that was meant to wash away their baptism. Christian marriages 259 00:15:53,880 --> 00:15:58,040 Speaker 1: were also avoided until a traditional pueblo ceremony could be performed, 260 00:15:58,320 --> 00:16:01,000 Speaker 1: and the pueblos burned down the ledges that the Spanish 261 00:16:01,080 --> 00:16:04,440 Speaker 1: had built, including Spanish built pueblos that the native people's 262 00:16:04,480 --> 00:16:07,400 Speaker 1: had been living in. They basically wanted to eradicate anything 263 00:16:07,440 --> 00:16:11,080 Speaker 1: the Spanish had touched, They burned down mission churches and 264 00:16:11,120 --> 00:16:15,200 Speaker 1: smashed the bells, They whipped statues, gouged out the eyes 265 00:16:15,280 --> 00:16:18,440 Speaker 1: of religious paintings. But this really didn't happen in every 266 00:16:18,440 --> 00:16:20,560 Speaker 1: single pueblo. This is another thing that a lot of 267 00:16:20,600 --> 00:16:23,680 Speaker 1: times in modern accounts you will see this as a 268 00:16:23,840 --> 00:16:26,400 Speaker 1: universal thing that happened in every single pueblo to the 269 00:16:26,440 --> 00:16:29,800 Speaker 1: same extent. But there's really a lot of variety and 270 00:16:29,880 --> 00:16:33,480 Speaker 1: exactly how much each pueblo village did or did not 271 00:16:33,600 --> 00:16:37,360 Speaker 1: reject Catholic influence at this point, and some of their tribes. 272 00:16:37,480 --> 00:16:40,080 Speaker 1: Some of the tribes actually moved their pueblos to more 273 00:16:40,120 --> 00:16:43,600 Speaker 1: defensible vantage points to better defend themselves in case the 274 00:16:43,640 --> 00:16:47,320 Speaker 1: Spanish returned. Many of the new pueblos that were built 275 00:16:47,360 --> 00:16:51,320 Speaker 1: after the revolt were built immediately adjacent to other villages 276 00:16:51,360 --> 00:16:54,000 Speaker 1: that dated back to the twelve or thirteenth century, So 277 00:16:54,080 --> 00:16:56,080 Speaker 1: it sort of seems as though that in addition to 278 00:16:56,120 --> 00:16:58,800 Speaker 1: going back to their traditional ways, they were also going 279 00:16:58,880 --> 00:17:02,400 Speaker 1: back to the places where their ancestors had lived. But 280 00:17:02,600 --> 00:17:07,320 Speaker 1: Spanish influence was not entirely destroyed. Some Spanish introductions to 281 00:17:07,359 --> 00:17:11,640 Speaker 1: Pueblo culture, including raising cattle and sheep, had become part 282 00:17:11,680 --> 00:17:14,320 Speaker 1: of the way of life there, and Pope decreed that 283 00:17:14,400 --> 00:17:17,840 Speaker 1: people should go back to planning corn exclusively, but some 284 00:17:17,920 --> 00:17:20,439 Speaker 1: continued to plant wheat and barley, which had also been 285 00:17:20,480 --> 00:17:24,679 Speaker 1: introduced by the Spanish. There were also Pueblo people at 286 00:17:24,720 --> 00:17:27,400 Speaker 1: this point who identified as Christians and who didn't want 287 00:17:27,440 --> 00:17:31,399 Speaker 1: to give up their religion. Uh These people would salvage 288 00:17:31,440 --> 00:17:35,679 Speaker 1: and hide what they could or incorporate Christian themes into 289 00:17:35,760 --> 00:17:39,480 Speaker 1: their traditional spiritual practice, so you can see some kind 290 00:17:39,560 --> 00:17:43,720 Speaker 1: of merging of the two influences in the archaeological record. 291 00:17:43,760 --> 00:17:47,960 Speaker 1: In some places, the Spanish started to attempt to retake 292 00:17:48,000 --> 00:17:51,880 Speaker 1: the Pueblo area in sixteen eighty one. There were skirmishes 293 00:17:51,920 --> 00:17:55,439 Speaker 1: and sieges that went on for years. Pope died in 294 00:17:55,520 --> 00:17:59,520 Speaker 1: six and there really wasn't another charismatic leader to take 295 00:17:59,520 --> 00:18:01,560 Speaker 1: his play us and try to unite all the people 296 00:18:01,640 --> 00:18:04,679 Speaker 1: of the different pueblos, And even before his death his 297 00:18:04,760 --> 00:18:08,960 Speaker 1: leadership had really weakened. He wound up dying in disgrace. Um. 298 00:18:09,000 --> 00:18:13,800 Speaker 1: There's some suggestion in the testimonies that was taken orally 299 00:18:13,880 --> 00:18:16,800 Speaker 1: from the Pueblo peoples that there were Pueblos that went 300 00:18:16,840 --> 00:18:19,240 Speaker 1: along with Pope because they were scared of him, and 301 00:18:19,280 --> 00:18:23,960 Speaker 1: not because they actually wanted to rebel. It's kind of 302 00:18:24,400 --> 00:18:27,320 Speaker 1: hard to to figure out whether that is really what 303 00:18:27,359 --> 00:18:29,480 Speaker 1: people thought or whether that is sort of an addition 304 00:18:30,160 --> 00:18:32,600 Speaker 1: um of the Spanish translators. But the fact that he 305 00:18:32,720 --> 00:18:37,000 Speaker 1: did die in pretty much not a state of respect 306 00:18:37,080 --> 00:18:40,439 Speaker 1: or reverence makes it seem like maybe there was some 307 00:18:40,480 --> 00:18:44,399 Speaker 1: merit to that, Yes, some merit to that part of it. Also, 308 00:18:44,560 --> 00:18:47,000 Speaker 1: the sort of back to the old ways that he 309 00:18:47,119 --> 00:18:50,679 Speaker 1: was advocating did seem like and sometimes that it was 310 00:18:50,720 --> 00:18:54,400 Speaker 1: sort of back to the old ways as envisioned by Pope. 311 00:18:55,080 --> 00:18:58,040 Speaker 1: Some of the pueblos that were rebuilt after the revolt 312 00:18:58,520 --> 00:19:02,520 Speaker 1: have more in common with Pays particular people then with 313 00:19:02,600 --> 00:19:06,679 Speaker 1: the pueblos that they were replacing. And weakened by years 314 00:19:06,680 --> 00:19:08,840 Speaker 1: of fighting and a loss of a central leader to 315 00:19:08,880 --> 00:19:12,359 Speaker 1: coordinate their efforts, the Pueblo peoples once again fell to 316 00:19:12,440 --> 00:19:16,160 Speaker 1: the Spanish, and that was in Sixteo. At this point, though, 317 00:19:16,400 --> 00:19:20,359 Speaker 1: the evangelical policy of the Catholic Church did become somewhat 318 00:19:20,440 --> 00:19:23,919 Speaker 1: less oppressive in terms of religious expression, so there were 319 00:19:23,960 --> 00:19:27,520 Speaker 1: still missions and churches being built. Missionaries still tried to 320 00:19:27,560 --> 00:19:30,960 Speaker 1: convert people, but they didn't really stand in the way 321 00:19:31,040 --> 00:19:34,080 Speaker 1: of the Pueblo people's free religious expression at that point. 322 00:19:34,160 --> 00:19:38,560 Speaker 1: So while there was still a whole colonial system going on, 323 00:19:38,840 --> 00:19:42,240 Speaker 1: the Pueblo people's did have more of an ability to 324 00:19:42,400 --> 00:19:47,239 Speaker 1: to carry on their their historical traditions and their spiritual traditions. 325 00:19:47,280 --> 00:19:50,960 Speaker 1: But unfortunately that did not stop things from uh being 326 00:19:51,000 --> 00:19:54,040 Speaker 1: bloody and the reconquest process. So while there were some 327 00:19:54,080 --> 00:19:58,080 Speaker 1: peaceful surrenders in other places, the Spanish actually went house 328 00:19:58,119 --> 00:20:02,080 Speaker 1: to house and burned people in our homes. It's pretty 329 00:20:02,080 --> 00:20:07,240 Speaker 1: bloody all around. Historical archaeologist Matthew J. Liebmann frames this 330 00:20:07,320 --> 00:20:10,679 Speaker 1: whole revolt as a revolution and not a revolt, and 331 00:20:10,720 --> 00:20:14,560 Speaker 1: he draws some parallels between it and the American Revolution. Basically, 332 00:20:14,600 --> 00:20:18,000 Speaker 1: in both cases there were farming people who were unhappy 333 00:20:18,040 --> 00:20:21,479 Speaker 1: with the leadership, who organized at night to rise up 334 00:20:21,520 --> 00:20:23,800 Speaker 1: and get rid of an oppressive colonial government that they 335 00:20:23,800 --> 00:20:28,000 Speaker 1: were unhappy living under. And today there are about seventy 336 00:20:28,040 --> 00:20:31,719 Speaker 1: five thousand people of Pueblo descent still living. Yes, we're 337 00:20:31,760 --> 00:20:34,400 Speaker 1: not talking about people who existed only in the past. 338 00:20:35,080 --> 00:20:37,320 Speaker 1: As we said earlier, one of the pueblos is one 339 00:20:37,359 --> 00:20:40,560 Speaker 1: of the most or one of the oldest, continually inhabited 340 00:20:40,560 --> 00:20:43,399 Speaker 1: places in the United States. So the culture endures to 341 00:20:43,480 --> 00:20:47,080 Speaker 1: some degree UM and indoors, and a lot of the 342 00:20:47,160 --> 00:20:50,640 Speaker 1: pueblos that still exists are still inhabited in a way 343 00:20:50,760 --> 00:20:54,560 Speaker 1: that's similar to how they were inhabited at this point 344 00:20:54,560 --> 00:20:57,159 Speaker 1: in history. UM. A lot of them are places that 345 00:20:57,200 --> 00:20:59,760 Speaker 1: people can visit if they're interested in learning about. There 346 00:21:00,520 --> 00:21:03,480 Speaker 1: a lot of resources online to kind of get a 347 00:21:03,520 --> 00:21:07,520 Speaker 1: sense of what the etiquette is of going, like what 348 00:21:07,600 --> 00:21:10,600 Speaker 1: people can, what visitors can and cannot witness, and can 349 00:21:10,640 --> 00:21:15,320 Speaker 1: and cannot do and participate in. UM. We can add 350 00:21:15,359 --> 00:21:18,359 Speaker 1: that to our list of History Podcast road trips. Yes, 351 00:21:18,680 --> 00:21:21,320 Speaker 1: the Pueblo trip. That would be very cool. There's a 352 00:21:21,400 --> 00:21:24,720 Speaker 1: statue of Pope in the Statuary Hall in the United 353 00:21:24,720 --> 00:21:28,320 Speaker 1: States Capital. It's one of the seven Native Americans who 354 00:21:28,320 --> 00:21:31,560 Speaker 1: were represented in the Statuary Hall. And as we've talked about, 355 00:21:31,920 --> 00:21:35,960 Speaker 1: there are nuances to this story, so you know, for 356 00:21:36,040 --> 00:21:38,840 Speaker 1: that reason, it was a pretty controversial addition to the 357 00:21:38,880 --> 00:21:42,560 Speaker 1: statuary Hall. It was carved by Cliff Fragua of him 358 00:21:42,560 --> 00:21:46,119 Speaker 1: as Pueblo and it depicts him he's uh, he's holding 359 00:21:46,240 --> 00:21:51,159 Speaker 1: the knotted chord that was used to help time everything correctly, 360 00:21:51,840 --> 00:21:56,200 Speaker 1: which is really a pretty ingenious timing device. Yeah, simple 361 00:21:56,440 --> 00:22:00,520 Speaker 1: but effective. I I also watched a video that pointed 362 00:22:00,520 --> 00:22:04,600 Speaker 1: out that it's kind of weird where it's position because 363 00:22:04,760 --> 00:22:07,639 Speaker 1: where where the statue of Pope is you can see 364 00:22:07,680 --> 00:22:12,960 Speaker 1: over his shoulder this, um, this big mural of Columbus 365 00:22:13,000 --> 00:22:18,560 Speaker 1: quote discovering. But because of the way the statue happens 366 00:22:18,600 --> 00:22:20,960 Speaker 1: to be positioned, he's his face has kind of turned 367 00:22:20,960 --> 00:22:24,840 Speaker 1: away from that. Interesting. Yeah, I don't think that was 368 00:22:24,880 --> 00:22:29,480 Speaker 1: a deliberate I think it just worked out that way. UM. Fascinating, 369 00:22:29,760 --> 00:22:32,399 Speaker 1: But yeah, do you also have some listener mail for 370 00:22:32,480 --> 00:22:35,200 Speaker 1: us to enjoy? Do you have some listener mail? This 371 00:22:35,240 --> 00:22:38,119 Speaker 1: listener mail is from Hallie and it's about our laur 372 00:22:38,200 --> 00:22:42,640 Speaker 1: Angles Wilder podcast. Um. He starts by wishing us happy holidays. 373 00:22:42,760 --> 00:22:45,760 Speaker 1: We are just back from these holidays. I was here 374 00:22:45,800 --> 00:22:48,000 Speaker 1: for most of them, but I say we, it was 375 00:22:48,040 --> 00:22:50,600 Speaker 1: really me. I was gone far away and and so 376 00:22:50,720 --> 00:22:55,119 Speaker 1: it is. It is our first recording session post holiday, 377 00:22:55,560 --> 00:22:59,240 Speaker 1: So happy holidays to everyone. Belatedly, thank you so much 378 00:22:59,320 --> 00:23:02,000 Speaker 1: for your recent podcast on Lara Angles Wilder in the 379 00:23:02,040 --> 00:23:06,520 Speaker 1: Long Winter of eight one which I am eagerly awaiting. 380 00:23:06,840 --> 00:23:08,439 Speaker 1: I think she had not heard that one yet when 381 00:23:08,440 --> 00:23:11,280 Speaker 1: she wrote this letter. I am a huge Lara Angeles 382 00:23:11,320 --> 00:23:14,040 Speaker 1: Wilder fan. I was introduced to her books at age four, 383 00:23:14,400 --> 00:23:17,199 Speaker 1: and my senior history thesis topic this past year was 384 00:23:17,240 --> 00:23:20,600 Speaker 1: inspired by Laura's stories. I'm one of those people who 385 00:23:20,600 --> 00:23:22,920 Speaker 1: has not yet gone on a Lara angles Wilder road trip, 386 00:23:22,960 --> 00:23:25,359 Speaker 1: but would absolutely love to you. I have been to 387 00:23:25,440 --> 00:23:28,960 Speaker 1: three sides plus al Manzo's New York farm on different occasions. Though, 388 00:23:29,480 --> 00:23:31,760 Speaker 1: considering how much there is to say about Laura, I 389 00:23:31,800 --> 00:23:34,240 Speaker 1: think you did a great job condensing it to forty minutes. 390 00:23:35,119 --> 00:23:38,240 Speaker 1: Just one correction. Al Manzo's name was pronounced like it 391 00:23:38,280 --> 00:23:40,880 Speaker 1: was spelled, not Almonso, so that I have no idea 392 00:23:40,920 --> 00:23:45,000 Speaker 1: where I picked up the pronunciation Almonso. I know either, 393 00:23:45,040 --> 00:23:46,960 Speaker 1: but I do. I mean, if you had woken me 394 00:23:47,000 --> 00:23:48,679 Speaker 1: from a dead sleep and said, how do you pronounce this? 395 00:23:48,680 --> 00:23:50,720 Speaker 1: I would have said Almonzo. Yeah. I think maybe that 396 00:23:50,760 --> 00:23:52,560 Speaker 1: was how they said it on the TV show. Perhaps 397 00:23:52,640 --> 00:23:54,800 Speaker 1: I could not confirm that before we came in here today, 398 00:23:54,840 --> 00:23:57,800 Speaker 1: but so my bad. I don't know where I picked 399 00:23:57,880 --> 00:24:00,640 Speaker 1: up the wrong pronunciation for his name, but appearly I did. 400 00:24:01,560 --> 00:24:03,520 Speaker 1: Um then to say that would explain why she called 401 00:24:03,560 --> 00:24:06,439 Speaker 1: it manly. It does it sounded a lots more sense, 402 00:24:06,760 --> 00:24:10,800 Speaker 1: It's less of a jump. Yes. Uh. I'd like to 403 00:24:10,840 --> 00:24:14,320 Speaker 1: suggest eight related podcast topic, Women in the Homestead Act. 404 00:24:14,560 --> 00:24:17,680 Speaker 1: You mentioned Eliza James homestead. There's so much to talk 405 00:24:17,680 --> 00:24:20,320 Speaker 1: about on the subject of women, particularly single women and 406 00:24:20,359 --> 00:24:22,760 Speaker 1: the Homestead Act. This is what I actually focused my 407 00:24:22,800 --> 00:24:27,359 Speaker 1: thesis on. There is really interesting struggle and gender slash 408 00:24:27,359 --> 00:24:30,560 Speaker 1: power play that went on with allowing single women to file. 409 00:24:30,960 --> 00:24:33,800 Speaker 1: As you mentioned in the podcast, women were confined largely 410 00:24:33,840 --> 00:24:37,160 Speaker 1: to the house but filing a homestead claimant working the land. 411 00:24:37,520 --> 00:24:39,960 Speaker 1: And although the government allowed women to do this, the 412 00:24:40,080 --> 00:24:43,040 Speaker 1: language that was used to talk about homesteading completely left 413 00:24:43,040 --> 00:24:46,120 Speaker 1: out women. Because of this, You've got some women using 414 00:24:46,160 --> 00:24:48,919 Speaker 1: masculine language to talk about themselves. I don't know if 415 00:24:48,960 --> 00:24:51,080 Speaker 1: you remember the term batch ng from the Long Winter 416 00:24:51,200 --> 00:24:54,720 Speaker 1: to describe how al Manzo and Royal were living. But 417 00:24:54,920 --> 00:24:58,639 Speaker 1: some women, namely one who called herself Bachelor Best, started 418 00:24:58,720 --> 00:25:01,879 Speaker 1: using words like that to refer to females. E j 419 00:25:02,119 --> 00:25:04,719 Speaker 1: is also fascinating as she had trouble proving up her 420 00:25:04,760 --> 00:25:07,840 Speaker 1: claim and wrote a really long letter regarding her experience 421 00:25:07,920 --> 00:25:11,760 Speaker 1: during those five years. Carry too was a homestead a homesteader, 422 00:25:12,000 --> 00:25:14,800 Speaker 1: though she did it after the five year law was changed. 423 00:25:15,080 --> 00:25:17,119 Speaker 1: I could go on and on about this, perhaps a 424 00:25:17,160 --> 00:25:20,160 Speaker 1: collaboration with stuff Mob never told you. I also think 425 00:25:20,160 --> 00:25:23,720 Speaker 1: a podcast on Rose would be wonderful, with her reporting libertarianism, 426 00:25:23,760 --> 00:25:27,920 Speaker 1: fascination with Albania, and difficult relationship with her mother. Lastly, 427 00:25:27,960 --> 00:25:29,960 Speaker 1: I wanted to draw your attention to a few things 428 00:25:30,000 --> 00:25:32,119 Speaker 1: you might find interesting in case you didn't come across 429 00:25:32,119 --> 00:25:35,240 Speaker 1: some my near research. There is a research organization devoted 430 00:25:35,240 --> 00:25:38,000 Speaker 1: to Laura Angles Wilder, the Laura Angles Wilder Legacy and 431 00:25:38,040 --> 00:25:41,880 Speaker 1: Research Association. At their first conference, a physics teacher presented 432 00:25:41,880 --> 00:25:44,919 Speaker 1: on the science behind Cap and Almanzo's winter trek In 433 00:25:44,960 --> 00:25:47,760 Speaker 1: the Long Winter. You can see many land patents on 434 00:25:47,800 --> 00:25:50,520 Speaker 1: the website of the Bureau of Land Matt Management, including 435 00:25:50,520 --> 00:25:54,960 Speaker 1: the timber claim patents for Eliza, Jane and Royal Wilder. Oh, 436 00:25:55,040 --> 00:25:57,879 Speaker 1: and remember the Bloody Vendors episode from last year. Laura, 437 00:25:57,920 --> 00:26:00,560 Speaker 1: on several occasions claimed that her father had run ins 438 00:26:00,600 --> 00:26:04,000 Speaker 1: with the family, but historians generally agree that this embellishment 439 00:26:04,040 --> 00:26:06,719 Speaker 1: was suggested by Rose to add more excitement to her 440 00:26:06,760 --> 00:26:11,680 Speaker 1: mother's childhood. Then, Holly gives us a completely unnecessary apology 441 00:26:11,760 --> 00:26:14,360 Speaker 1: for how long this email is. This is so full 442 00:26:14,400 --> 00:26:18,400 Speaker 1: of it's so full of good stuff. Thank you so much, Hallie. 443 00:26:18,920 --> 00:26:23,680 Speaker 1: The Homestead Act is there's so many layers and nuances 444 00:26:23,720 --> 00:26:26,840 Speaker 1: to the Homestead Act that we definitely did not scratch 445 00:26:26,880 --> 00:26:30,639 Speaker 1: the surface of in that particular episode. Um, I don't 446 00:26:30,640 --> 00:26:34,360 Speaker 1: we have maybe talked about this in our prior podcast 447 00:26:34,400 --> 00:26:37,879 Speaker 1: pot Stuff. But one of my favorite reality TV shows 448 00:26:38,440 --> 00:26:41,719 Speaker 1: was called Frontier House, and it was about three families 449 00:26:41,760 --> 00:26:45,919 Speaker 1: who are sort of sent to two basically pretend that 450 00:26:45,920 --> 00:26:47,840 Speaker 1: they're going to be on the frontier food through the winter, 451 00:26:48,040 --> 00:26:50,240 Speaker 1: and and some historians who came in to say whether 452 00:26:50,240 --> 00:26:53,160 Speaker 1: they could survive or not. And one of the families 453 00:26:53,720 --> 00:26:57,560 Speaker 1: is an interracial couple who at the time period, Uh, 454 00:26:57,640 --> 00:27:01,600 Speaker 1: that would have been a potential option for a mixed 455 00:27:01,880 --> 00:27:04,280 Speaker 1: for an interracial couple to be able to make a 456 00:27:04,280 --> 00:27:08,359 Speaker 1: life for themselves without so much interference from the rules 457 00:27:08,359 --> 00:27:10,399 Speaker 1: of society around them who would have said that their 458 00:27:10,440 --> 00:27:15,840 Speaker 1: relationship was not okay. Um, So we have potential opportunities 459 00:27:15,880 --> 00:27:19,040 Speaker 1: for women, for interracial couples, for other people who were 460 00:27:19,080 --> 00:27:22,679 Speaker 1: not living in like the social standard that was acceptable 461 00:27:22,720 --> 00:27:24,720 Speaker 1: at the time. But at the same time, it was 462 00:27:24,840 --> 00:27:28,600 Speaker 1: a devastating act for the Native American population who were 463 00:27:28,640 --> 00:27:31,399 Speaker 1: being removed from their homes and put on reservations to 464 00:27:31,440 --> 00:27:37,240 Speaker 1: make room foreign settlers. So lots of layers to the 465 00:27:37,320 --> 00:27:41,320 Speaker 1: homes that act. It was simultaneously an opportunity and absolutely 466 00:27:41,480 --> 00:27:45,480 Speaker 1: devastating and horrible. Uh So, thank you Hollie for writing 467 00:27:45,560 --> 00:27:49,320 Speaker 1: us that letter so good. It is very good. So 468 00:27:49,480 --> 00:27:52,200 Speaker 1: if you would like to email us and share your thoughts, 469 00:27:52,320 --> 00:27:55,200 Speaker 1: you can do so at History Podcast at Discovery dot com. 470 00:27:55,560 --> 00:27:57,800 Speaker 1: We also have some new ways to connect with us 471 00:27:57,840 --> 00:28:00,320 Speaker 1: are old ways with new addresses. You can connect with 472 00:28:00,400 --> 00:28:02,640 Speaker 1: us on Facebook still but now we're at Facebook dot 473 00:28:02,640 --> 00:28:06,160 Speaker 1: com slash missed in history. We're still on Twitter at 474 00:28:06,160 --> 00:28:08,680 Speaker 1: misst in history. We're still on Tumbler at mist in 475 00:28:08,800 --> 00:28:12,840 Speaker 1: history dot tumbler dot com. And our Pinterest has moved 476 00:28:12,920 --> 00:28:15,960 Speaker 1: and expanded rather significantly, so you can find us there 477 00:28:15,960 --> 00:28:18,920 Speaker 1: at pinterest dot com slash mist in history. If you 478 00:28:18,960 --> 00:28:20,719 Speaker 1: would like to learn a little more about what we 479 00:28:20,720 --> 00:28:23,800 Speaker 1: have talked about today and some of the controversial history 480 00:28:23,840 --> 00:28:25,399 Speaker 1: of what we've been talking about, you can come to 481 00:28:25,400 --> 00:28:28,200 Speaker 1: our website. Put in the word missionaries in the search 482 00:28:28,240 --> 00:28:30,880 Speaker 1: bar and you will find the article how missionaries work. 483 00:28:31,320 --> 00:28:33,200 Speaker 1: You can learn all about this and a whole lot 484 00:28:33,200 --> 00:28:35,399 Speaker 1: more at our website, which is how stuff works dot 485 00:28:35,480 --> 00:28:42,120 Speaker 1: com for more on this and thousands of other topics 486 00:28:42,160 --> 00:28:54,160 Speaker 1: because at how stuff works dot com