WEBVTT - Burns Park 0:00:08.245 --> 0:00:14.805 School of Humans. She was talking to somebody on Saturday 0:00:15.205 --> 0:00:18.605 and had plans to meet with this person on Sunday 0:00:18.845 --> 0:00:20.565 in the park. She was supposed to meet with someone 0:00:20.645 --> 0:00:23.685 Sunday in the park, So we still haven't figured out 0:00:23.685 --> 0:00:25.685 who that was. Because I was kind of thinking. I 0:00:25.765 --> 0:00:29.525 knew she had Instagram messages exchange with Eric Perry, so 0:00:29.565 --> 0:00:32.085 I thought, maybe's Eric Perry. But now we know obviously 0:00:32.165 --> 0:00:35.085 that wasn't him. So was there a guy who she 0:00:35.125 --> 0:00:36.845 was planning on meeting Sunday in the park. Could it 0:00:36.925 --> 0:00:39.205 have been someone else? We're trying to figure that out. 0:00:40.485 --> 0:00:43.605 Each person who we've talked to about Ebbie revealed some 0:00:43.685 --> 0:00:46.565 new information about who she was and what she was 0:00:46.605 --> 0:00:50.485 doing before she disappeared. We've found out that she hung 0:00:50.485 --> 0:00:53.045 out with a lot of different people in groups, and 0:00:53.125 --> 0:00:55.605 some of these people didn't even necessarily know each other. 0:00:56.725 --> 0:00:59.645 There was Danielle, her old friend from school who she 0:00:59.765 --> 0:01:02.885 sometimes stayed with during the week. Then there was Eric, 0:01:03.245 --> 0:01:05.005 who Ebbie hung out with in a group with some 0:01:05.045 --> 0:01:09.525 other friends and eventually dated. Then there were C and L. 0:01:09.725 --> 0:01:12.845 Ebbie seemed to know C pretty well, while L was 0:01:12.885 --> 0:01:15.725 more of a friend of a friend. But as we 0:01:15.805 --> 0:01:19.005 dig in with each person, we keep finding more and 0:01:19.045 --> 0:01:22.725 more circles of people, and we're realizing that there may 0:01:22.765 --> 0:01:26.405 be people out there who we haven't found yet. It 0:01:26.525 --> 0:01:28.925 seems like Ebby was going to meet someone at the park, 0:01:29.925 --> 0:01:32.965 and if we can figure out who it is, everything 0:01:33.165 --> 0:01:39.245 might fall into place. I'm Catherine Townsend. This is hell 0:01:39.285 --> 0:02:15.605 and gone. When I talked to Eric, he had a 0:02:15.685 --> 0:02:18.725 theory about what could have happened to Ebby. When he 0:02:18.845 --> 0:02:22.525 talked to Ebbie that last time on Sunday, Remember, he 0:02:22.685 --> 0:02:27.085 said she sounded exhausted. She sounded impaired in some way, 0:02:27.605 --> 0:02:30.245 out of it and incoherent. I think you were saying 0:02:30.285 --> 0:02:32.045 she seemed like she was out of it or she'd 0:02:32.085 --> 0:02:35.405 been roofeed or something. Right, Yes, Like, that's why I 0:02:35.445 --> 0:02:37.165 think she might have passed out at work up too, 0:02:37.325 --> 0:02:40.765 because of the sound. We know that Ebbie had smoked 0:02:40.765 --> 0:02:43.685 pot in the past, and that at some point she 0:02:43.765 --> 0:02:45.965 was on a couple of different types of prescription drugs. 0:02:46.645 --> 0:02:50.645 But could Ebbie have taken something else, even accidentally, that 0:02:50.765 --> 0:02:54.405 contributed to her death. Yes, Ebbie could have very well 0:02:54.525 --> 0:02:57.125 overdose phone drugs. She took drugs. That's the road thing 0:02:57.205 --> 0:03:00.085 like and now was like around the time where Fedanar 0:03:00.365 --> 0:03:03.725 was like, people didn't even know what fed was. You know, 0:03:03.925 --> 0:03:07.605 so is that's the very you got to understand why 0:03:07.645 --> 0:03:10.045 the police felate she could you know, this could have 0:03:10.125 --> 0:03:14.325 happened to her. Like the rest of the nation at 0:03:14.325 --> 0:03:17.205 the time, Little Rock was experiencing an increase of death 0:03:17.285 --> 0:03:20.885 due to overdose. Fentnyl was making the news, especially after 0:03:20.925 --> 0:03:24.565 Prince's death, but back in twenty fifteen it was not 0:03:24.645 --> 0:03:26.525 as well known as it is now in the region. 0:03:27.885 --> 0:03:31.885 Fentnyl is a synthetic opioid, and it was developed as 0:03:31.925 --> 0:03:36.165 a painkiller and anesthetic. Because it's so strong, up to 0:03:36.205 --> 0:03:40.325 one hundred times stronger than morphine, the potential for accidental 0:03:40.365 --> 0:03:45.285 overdose can be huge. Sometimes fentnyl is added to other drugs, 0:03:45.485 --> 0:03:48.325 so people can overdose on fentnyl and have no idea 0:03:48.405 --> 0:03:51.685 that they overtook it. Based on how Ebby sounded to 0:03:51.845 --> 0:03:54.725 Eric and also what Trevor said about his call with her, 0:03:55.525 --> 0:03:57.805 it does seem like Ebby was in some sort of 0:03:57.925 --> 0:04:02.765 very altered state. We talked to toxicology expert doctor Barry 0:04:02.805 --> 0:04:07.565 Guston about the signs of fentnyl overdose. Well, the first 0:04:07.605 --> 0:04:10.685 thing you have to understand what the effects are on 0:04:10.845 --> 0:04:14.605 the body when it's taken in a normal doses. The 0:04:14.645 --> 0:04:18.925 normal doses between twenty five and fifty micrograms per dose. 0:04:19.725 --> 0:04:24.565 We're talking micrograms rather than milligrams. It's one thousand of 0:04:24.605 --> 0:04:29.965 a milligram a microgram, so it's very small. So it's 0:04:30.245 --> 0:04:33.405 effect on the body is the same effect as any opioid. 0:04:33.605 --> 0:04:37.645 You get pain relief, you relaxed, and it get s dated. 0:04:38.485 --> 0:04:41.005 Some people might get a little nauseous from it. But 0:04:41.165 --> 0:04:43.485 when you take an excess amount of it, the amount 0:04:44.085 --> 0:04:48.365 it's an access will produce stupor cause the skin to 0:04:48.405 --> 0:04:52.045 be called and clammy. The person might go into a coma. 0:04:52.245 --> 0:04:56.045 It causes respiratory failure, leading usually leading to death. And 0:04:56.085 --> 0:04:58.325 in the fenel does something else that's interesting that no 0:04:58.405 --> 0:05:02.685 other opioid does. It causes an abnormality in the chest 0:05:02.765 --> 0:05:06.245 wall and the diaphragm. It causes what we call chest 0:05:06.325 --> 0:05:09.005 wall rigidity. And what that does is it makes the 0:05:09.045 --> 0:05:11.925 breathing very very difficult, because if you can't expand your 0:05:12.005 --> 0:05:14.365 chest wall or your diaphragm, you're not going to be 0:05:14.405 --> 0:05:18.205 able to breathe. So not only does it depress respirations 0:05:18.285 --> 0:05:21.405 that you can have a respiratory arrest. It also makes 0:05:21.445 --> 0:05:24.525 it very difficult to breathe because you can't have normal 0:05:24.565 --> 0:05:27.285 excursion of your chest wall and your diaphragm. And is 0:05:27.325 --> 0:05:30.885 it possible for someone who might be overdosing to pass 0:05:30.965 --> 0:05:36.245 out and then wake up and then pass out again? Now, okay, 0:05:36.405 --> 0:05:39.365 so once they're out there out Basically, once they're out, 0:05:39.365 --> 0:05:43.125 they're out. Our case was back in twenty fifteen. Can 0:05:43.165 --> 0:05:45.405 you just talk a little bit about was fitine present 0:05:45.485 --> 0:05:49.365 in twenty fifteen? Oh? Yeah, Fentinel's been around along a 0:05:49.365 --> 0:05:52.325 long time. And you have to think of it this way. 0:05:52.445 --> 0:05:57.325 Opioid overdose deaths I've really become an epidemic in the 0:05:57.405 --> 0:06:01.125 United States. It's a terrible, terrible scourge. And what you 0:06:01.325 --> 0:06:04.685 have to think about is the opioid overdose death can't 0:06:04.765 --> 0:06:09.525 come really three waves. The third wave began in around 0:06:09.525 --> 0:06:14.165 twenty thirteen and we started seeing a ute spink up 0:06:14.205 --> 0:06:18.805 and overdose deaths from these synthetic opioids and have been 0:06:18.885 --> 0:06:22.965 number one culprit. There is fentyl. There's been counterfeit pills. 0:06:23.885 --> 0:06:28.405 Heroin is laced with fentyl, Cocaine is laced with fentyl, 0:06:28.885 --> 0:06:31.725 And the problem is that these deaths that are occurring 0:06:32.285 --> 0:06:36.845 are deaths when the individual doesn't know that they've been 0:06:36.965 --> 0:06:41.525 ingesting fentyl. So the overdose victims are dying after unknowingly 0:06:41.765 --> 0:06:46.965 ingesting the ventyl. That's the problem, right. They're more fentyl 0:06:47.085 --> 0:06:51.525 related deaths now per period of time than cun and 0:06:51.765 --> 0:06:57.805 automobile related deaths combined. So these deaths are no longer 0:06:57.925 --> 0:07:02.365 being treated by the government as accidental death. They're being 0:07:02.405 --> 0:07:05.885 treated as homicides. Well, my last question, and which you 0:07:06.085 --> 0:07:09.605 partially already answered, really is what drugs do spentil appear in. 0:07:10.405 --> 0:07:14.085 I know you mentioned heroin, cocaine pills, what about marijuana? 0:07:14.285 --> 0:07:18.125 About hot Yes, mentioned marijuana too, And I guess there's 0:07:18.165 --> 0:07:21.485 no real way to know what you're buying. There isn't. 0:07:24.085 --> 0:07:28.365 Even if an accidental overdose contributed to Ebbie's death, it 0:07:28.445 --> 0:07:33.485 doesn't explain everything. Why was she in that pipe? We'll 0:07:33.525 --> 0:07:39.485 be right back. An overdose does not explain everything. I 0:07:39.765 --> 0:07:42.285 understand why the police feel like she could have you know, 0:07:42.405 --> 0:07:46.645 this could have happened to her off ofs. But basically 0:07:46.685 --> 0:07:49.165 what I'm trying to say, I see why they can say, oh, yes, 0:07:49.205 --> 0:07:52.125 she overdose, But how can you say somebody put theirselfs 0:07:52.125 --> 0:08:00.565 in the pipe. We've also been getting more details about 0:08:00.565 --> 0:08:04.205 the towel that was found near Ebbie's car. Lee, the 0:08:04.285 --> 0:08:07.285 neighbor who called in the end in car, let Laurie 0:08:07.285 --> 0:08:10.285 know that from the beginning she believed that the way 0:08:10.325 --> 0:08:14.725 the towel was positioned was suspicious. In a text to Laurie, 0:08:14.885 --> 0:08:17.605 Lee wrote that she saw a red towel laying flat 0:08:17.605 --> 0:08:20.925 out beside the back passenger tire, and she wondered if 0:08:20.925 --> 0:08:23.165 someone could have used it to slide themselves down into 0:08:23.165 --> 0:08:26.285 the drain. Now, there are two ways to access the 0:08:26.325 --> 0:08:29.125 storm drain that leads down to the thirteen inch wide 0:08:29.125 --> 0:08:32.365 pipe where Ebby's body was found. Whoever put her down 0:08:32.365 --> 0:08:35.285 there could have lifted the manhole cover, then put her 0:08:35.325 --> 0:08:40.325 there and closed the cover afterwards. But there's also another possibility. 0:08:40.565 --> 0:08:42.925 The gutter that leads down to that drain is wide 0:08:43.045 --> 0:08:47.165 and angles pretty sharply downward, so Ebbie could have slid 0:08:47.205 --> 0:08:50.525 down that way, or someone could have pushed her down 0:08:50.565 --> 0:08:54.605 that way. Lee said that she told the original detective 0:08:54.645 --> 0:08:57.845 on the case, Roy Williams, that she believed the towel 0:08:57.845 --> 0:09:01.565 could be a significant clue from day one, I said 0:09:01.605 --> 0:09:06.845 the towel was used for something she wrote. Lee says 0:09:06.885 --> 0:09:09.805 that after she talked to the police, they basically dismissed 0:09:09.805 --> 0:09:13.085 the towel. They seemed to think that Ebby could have 0:09:13.125 --> 0:09:15.365 been hanging out outside her car or sitting on it. 0:09:16.445 --> 0:09:20.005 But on October twenty fifth, twenty fifteen, according to a 0:09:20.045 --> 0:09:23.125 historical weather day to website, the temperature and Little Rock 0:09:23.165 --> 0:09:26.365 would have been in the fifties. That seems very cold 0:09:26.445 --> 0:09:28.245 for a teenager to get out of the car and 0:09:28.325 --> 0:09:31.325 hang out. Why wouldn't she have stayed inside her car? 0:09:31.885 --> 0:09:35.885 Did something scare her or did something happen there that 0:09:35.965 --> 0:09:39.525 caused her to get out, something unexpected that would have 0:09:39.565 --> 0:09:42.845 caused someone else to slide her into that manhole using 0:09:42.885 --> 0:09:46.965 that towel. Eric's theory was that Ebby could have overdosed 0:09:47.405 --> 0:09:49.445 and then it could have been an accident, and then 0:09:49.445 --> 0:09:53.045 the person or people she was with just panicked. If 0:09:53.085 --> 0:09:55.325 they did, could they have made a split second decision 0:09:55.365 --> 0:09:57.605 to get rid of her body and then put her 0:09:57.605 --> 0:10:01.005 on too that towel? But who was even with Ebby 0:10:01.045 --> 0:10:06.365 that day? There's a photo when Ebby Instagram that she 0:10:06.485 --> 0:10:09.925 posted about a week before she went missing. She's in 0:10:10.005 --> 0:10:13.245 her car in a park. It's Burns Park in North 0:10:13.285 --> 0:10:18.125 Little Rock. Compared to Chalmant, Burns Park is huge and 0:10:18.165 --> 0:10:20.045 it's one of the many parks that Ebbie liked to 0:10:20.045 --> 0:10:23.565 hang out in. And in that photo she's not alone, 0:10:24.245 --> 0:10:27.925 she's with a guy and the caption reads made a 0:10:27.965 --> 0:10:32.125 new friend. When Laurie saw this photo for the first time, 0:10:32.485 --> 0:10:36.445 she immediately knew who this guy was. His name is Leo. 0:10:37.485 --> 0:10:41.165 We've confirmed with multiple sources that Leo and Ebbie used 0:10:41.205 --> 0:10:45.125 to hang out, but according to Laurie, when Leo was 0:10:45.245 --> 0:10:48.605 questioned by the police in twenty fifteen after Ebbie disappeared, 0:10:49.405 --> 0:10:53.805 he told them he didn't know Ebby. So we're trying 0:10:53.845 --> 0:10:56.645 to find out more about him where he is now 0:10:56.885 --> 0:11:01.725 if he'll talk. Leo is also showed up in Ebbie's 0:11:01.725 --> 0:11:05.725 phone records after she went missing. He called a couple 0:11:05.765 --> 0:11:09.525 of times. And Leo is also someone who Eric mentioned 0:11:09.605 --> 0:11:12.645 as being potentially a guy who Ebby might hang around 0:11:12.645 --> 0:11:15.285 within that park. So for all those reasons, we're trying 0:11:15.285 --> 0:11:18.765 to find Leo. But Leo is turning out to be 0:11:18.845 --> 0:11:21.885 hard to find. Mike can't find him on his PI 0:11:21.965 --> 0:11:25.165 database and even though we have a last name, we 0:11:25.285 --> 0:11:27.885 can't find anyone with that exact name who would be 0:11:27.925 --> 0:11:32.685 the correct age. But finally, after making some calls, I 0:11:32.765 --> 0:11:35.765 get a message on Instagram from someone who says they 0:11:35.805 --> 0:11:38.525 know Leo. Well, are you guys okay? If I record this, 0:11:38.565 --> 0:11:40.645 By the way, I don't have to use it. I 0:11:40.645 --> 0:11:43.405 don't have to use it. We're not using this source's 0:11:43.445 --> 0:11:47.965 name because they're scared. They said that Leo moved to 0:11:47.965 --> 0:11:50.645 the Little Rock area from Hot Springs when he was seventeen, 0:11:51.485 --> 0:11:54.125 and that for a period of time he attended Central 0:11:54.205 --> 0:11:58.525 High School. The source says that Leo did hang around 0:11:58.525 --> 0:12:01.605 in a group that included Ebby and some guys. The 0:12:01.685 --> 0:12:04.445 source did not know the guys, but describe them as 0:12:04.485 --> 0:12:08.765 African American. The source said that Ebby, these guys, and 0:12:08.885 --> 0:12:12.485 Leo would all go to parks together. One of the 0:12:12.485 --> 0:12:14.045 things we've been trying to figure out too, is like 0:12:14.405 --> 0:12:17.045 there's a friend group who were kind of around on 0:12:17.125 --> 0:12:19.925 Friday night, and it seems like Leo. I'm just trying 0:12:19.925 --> 0:12:21.965 to figure out where he fits into it, because definitely 0:12:22.005 --> 0:12:24.205 I think that he was going to the park with her, 0:12:24.365 --> 0:12:27.645 either that park or another part maybe Burns Park. But 0:12:27.725 --> 0:12:29.205 he was going to the park with her. I just 0:12:29.205 --> 0:12:31.445 can't figure out how he's connected to the guys on 0:12:31.485 --> 0:12:34.405 Friday night, like if he knew them. Was Leo part 0:12:34.445 --> 0:12:36.325 of the group that Ebbie was with on Friday night 0:12:36.965 --> 0:12:39.925 or could he have been around on Saturday or Sunday. 0:12:40.125 --> 0:12:43.325 According to the source, Leo was hanging out with Ebbie 0:12:43.405 --> 0:12:46.045 in the days before she went missing, and at some 0:12:46.125 --> 0:12:48.925 point he got a call from her where she seemed 0:12:48.965 --> 0:12:52.845 to be very distraught. Well, if he got when he 0:12:52.885 --> 0:12:55.565 got the call where he was really distraught, did he 0:12:55.565 --> 0:12:58.685 ever say anything about what the call was about what 0:12:58.885 --> 0:13:02.285 happened during that call? Did Ebbie call him to tell 0:13:02.325 --> 0:13:05.165 him about the sexual assault or could it have been 0:13:05.205 --> 0:13:14.205 something else. We'll be right back. I know there's a 0:13:14.205 --> 0:13:17.565 little off the subject, but apparently there was a big 0:13:17.845 --> 0:13:21.885 Like Laurie. Tommy Hudson called Laurie yesterday and said, was 0:13:22.005 --> 0:13:25.125 Katherine trying to say that the security guard did something 0:13:25.165 --> 0:13:28.205 to Ebby? And Laurie's like, no, She was asking why 0:13:28.205 --> 0:13:31.565 the story didn't match, and He's like, well, nothing could 0:13:31.605 --> 0:13:34.605 be further from the truth. Like he's been lie detected. 0:13:34.725 --> 0:13:37.565 Someone gave him a lie detector test, and I just 0:13:37.725 --> 0:13:40.245 was kind of like, you know, okay, but how do 0:13:40.325 --> 0:13:41.925 we know that? Did he say he gave him a 0:13:41.925 --> 0:13:43.925 lie detector tests? No, we don't know who did or 0:13:43.965 --> 0:13:46.445 if anyone did. And I'm just not believing what the 0:13:46.485 --> 0:13:48.525 police are saying because we know they've gotten so much 0:13:48.565 --> 0:13:51.045 wrong that I really don't I mean, these are logical 0:13:51.125 --> 0:13:55.005 questions you'd be asking anyone at this point. So anyway, 0:13:55.085 --> 0:13:58.725 just letting you know that's going on. Even with our 0:13:58.805 --> 0:14:01.845 questions about the security guard and about several other people, 0:14:02.565 --> 0:14:06.125 it still looks like the LRPD or no longer going 0:14:06.125 --> 0:14:09.725 to work on the case. In Detective Bruce Maxwell's words 0:14:09.725 --> 0:14:13.205 and an email to Laurie, quote there is no more 0:14:13.245 --> 0:14:16.805 work to be done on the case end quote. But 0:14:17.485 --> 0:14:20.605 it's strange because Bruce is also confirmed that he has 0:14:20.725 --> 0:14:24.365 no idea where Ebbie was on Saturday night. And another 0:14:24.485 --> 0:14:27.645 question that hasn't been answered is what about Ebbie's phones. 0:14:28.405 --> 0:14:30.765 So this whole time, there's been a question about whether 0:14:30.805 --> 0:14:33.885 Ebbie could have had a second phone, and now it 0:14:33.925 --> 0:14:36.805 looks like she definitely did have a second phone. Laurie 0:14:36.845 --> 0:14:40.805 told us that shortly before Ebbie went missing, Ebbie switched 0:14:41.045 --> 0:14:46.685 her phone with another friend, of hers. The friend who 0:14:46.765 --> 0:14:50.565 Laurie believes that Ebbie switched phones with is Kaylee, the 0:14:50.645 --> 0:14:53.325 same friend who searched Chamant Park with her mom right 0:14:53.365 --> 0:14:57.805 after Ebbie disappeared. They're the ones who smelled decomposition. They 0:14:57.845 --> 0:15:01.125 call the police and according to Kayley and her mom, 0:15:01.285 --> 0:15:04.045 law enforcement kind of blew them off and said it 0:15:04.085 --> 0:15:06.765 must have been an animal or something else. But it 0:15:06.845 --> 0:15:10.085 seems now that that could have been a hugely important tip. 0:15:11.285 --> 0:15:13.925 The fact that Ebbie could have switched phones with a 0:15:13.965 --> 0:15:16.365 friend of hers has never been brought up in our 0:15:16.405 --> 0:15:20.245 conversations with police, and if Ebbie did switch phones with 0:15:20.285 --> 0:15:23.605 a friend, then that friend could have access to some 0:15:23.685 --> 0:15:27.245 information that has never been seen. So that could be 0:15:27.485 --> 0:15:32.845 very significant because apparently some of the messages in the cloud, 0:15:33.165 --> 0:15:36.365 like Kaylee was still getting Ebbie's messages in the cloud 0:15:36.485 --> 0:15:39.285 and some of her data and pictures, which could be 0:15:39.405 --> 0:15:44.085 very significant because if that was going on, then Ebbie's 0:15:44.125 --> 0:15:47.485 phone could have had some of Kayley's data and the 0:15:47.565 --> 0:15:50.965 police have been saying that they had, like Bruce Maxwell 0:15:51.045 --> 0:15:53.965 recently said he went through six thousand photos on Ebbie's 0:15:53.965 --> 0:15:57.045 phone that apparently no one had looked through, and he's 0:15:57.085 --> 0:16:01.245 basing his timeline on those photos. So my question would be, 0:16:01.765 --> 0:16:04.845 can we be absolutely sure that those were Ebbie's photos 0:16:05.125 --> 0:16:08.365 and weren't corrupted with some of the other data from 0:16:08.405 --> 0:16:10.725 you know, Kayley's phone. I don't even know if he's 0:16:10.765 --> 0:16:13.085 aware of that. I don't think Bruce has spoken to her, 0:16:13.605 --> 0:16:15.725 And I'm also wondering why doesn't he just, you know, 0:16:15.805 --> 0:16:17.525 call Kayley and say, hey, can you look through these 0:16:17.565 --> 0:16:19.045 photos and tell me if any of them are you 0:16:19.525 --> 0:16:23.325 or yours. The only thing I would ask is if 0:16:23.365 --> 0:16:27.005 she does allow us to look at the phone, we 0:16:27.085 --> 0:16:31.085 need to ask her if she factory reset that phone 0:16:31.765 --> 0:16:34.765 anytime between now and then. Did you just get a 0:16:34.805 --> 0:16:37.085 new phone and just kept that phone and it's been 0:16:37.165 --> 0:16:40.085 off or have you? Like we need to know some 0:16:40.165 --> 0:16:44.285 things about the phone. If it's an older iPhone, you 0:16:44.405 --> 0:16:46.725 may still able to pull data off of it. Some 0:16:46.805 --> 0:16:49.445 of the newer iPhones when you factory reset it may 0:16:49.565 --> 0:16:52.805 it renders the data cryptographically inaccessible, which means you need 0:16:52.845 --> 0:16:54.805 to go to a lab in order for them to 0:16:54.845 --> 0:16:57.885 pull all the old data off of it. But if 0:16:57.965 --> 0:17:01.085 like it's still there and some of that stuff is there, 0:17:01.205 --> 0:17:04.285 we can rip the handset. If Kayley will allow us 0:17:04.285 --> 0:17:06.245 to do it. I mean, we can turn that over 0:17:06.285 --> 0:17:10.165 to law enforcement if if we so desire. After we 0:17:10.685 --> 0:17:13.525 look through the data, I put out a call to 0:17:13.605 --> 0:17:16.525 Kayley and we made a plan to talk sometime in 0:17:16.565 --> 0:17:20.405 the next few days. Though we have not yet been 0:17:20.445 --> 0:17:23.005 able to identify the two men who were patrolling with 0:17:23.005 --> 0:17:26.925 a security guard, we do have some more information. People 0:17:26.965 --> 0:17:29.205 have been texting and calling our tipline now that the 0:17:29.245 --> 0:17:32.485 podcast is coming out, and Laurie has also been getting calls. 0:17:33.285 --> 0:17:35.645 Some of them say they have information about the case. 0:17:36.205 --> 0:17:38.765 I know from Laurie. I just I've seen the message 0:17:38.765 --> 0:17:42.045 you sent her and I guess, just tell me what 0:17:42.165 --> 0:17:46.605 you what you know? Well, a few years ago, this 0:17:46.765 --> 0:17:50.405 is Leslie. She met Laurie through her hairdresser because she 0:17:50.485 --> 0:17:54.165 went to the same salon where Laurie worked. So I've 0:17:54.285 --> 0:17:56.485 sat next door while she's getting my hair done for 0:17:56.565 --> 0:17:58.365 years and talking to her name and would run in 0:17:58.365 --> 0:18:01.205 and out when she was yumping heavy within my son's 0:18:01.205 --> 0:18:05.445 graduating class at Central High School and so she would 0:18:05.565 --> 0:18:08.525 have graduated with him. So it was very personal to 0:18:08.565 --> 0:18:11.005 all of us, especially since she went missing from a 0:18:11.125 --> 0:18:14.565 par park our pool and that was where her car 0:18:14.725 --> 0:18:18.805 was found. After Ebbie went missing, Leslie did whatever she 0:18:18.925 --> 0:18:22.285 could to help Laurie. I put up posters, you know, 0:18:22.325 --> 0:18:25.965 everywhere I went, thinking that perhaps she was being trafficked. 0:18:26.005 --> 0:18:29.685 We were just very, very very upset about it. And 0:18:29.965 --> 0:18:34.125 I kept saying, I I just can't believe the story 0:18:34.205 --> 0:18:37.565 of being trafficked. Did search for her? My husband and 0:18:37.605 --> 0:18:38.965 I and my friend and I would go up there 0:18:38.965 --> 0:18:41.765 and walk around, and I would just get the hairs 0:18:41.765 --> 0:18:43.605 in the back of my neck would stand up. And 0:18:44.005 --> 0:18:46.885 when I went over there, and I just said, something 0:18:47.205 --> 0:18:50.285 bad happened here, and they need to figure this out, 0:18:50.445 --> 0:18:52.925 and why are they not looking for her more diligently. 0:18:56.125 --> 0:18:59.845 Leslie lives in Shannall Valley, in a neighborhood very close 0:18:59.885 --> 0:19:03.365 to Schalmont Park, So she was part of the neighborhood 0:19:03.565 --> 0:19:07.365 that Guy Hooper regularly patrol. And this is why she 0:19:07.445 --> 0:19:11.125 called me. She tells me she's not seen anyone matching 0:19:11.165 --> 0:19:13.885 the description of the young black men who Michael mentioned 0:19:13.925 --> 0:19:15.645 seeing that day when he went to look for Ebbie 0:19:15.765 --> 0:19:19.845 shortly after she went missing. But Leslie said she does 0:19:20.005 --> 0:19:22.405 know for a fact that there was someone else who 0:19:22.405 --> 0:19:26.605 patrolled the area regularly with Guy Hooper. This is extremely 0:19:26.685 --> 0:19:31.005 surprising to me because during this entire investigation, no one 0:19:31.085 --> 0:19:36.125 has ever mentioned this other person even mentioned which is 0:19:36.125 --> 0:19:38.165 why see the thing for me, And I'm sorry, that's 0:19:38.205 --> 0:19:41.405 why I said look that up. The person who patrolled 0:19:41.445 --> 0:19:46.565 regularly with Guy Hooper was his son, Josh. Leslie said 0:19:46.645 --> 0:19:49.605 she never had a good feeling about them. She says 0:19:49.605 --> 0:19:53.285 they'd drive around and beat up cars and often patrol 0:19:53.445 --> 0:19:57.365 around dusk. Then there was another unsettling incident she remembered 0:19:57.405 --> 0:20:00.605 about them. I do believe it was before twenty eleven. 0:20:01.485 --> 0:20:05.725 He was involved, and I believe his son was for 0:20:05.805 --> 0:20:09.485 him at the time. This was on the news. But anyway, 0:20:10.045 --> 0:20:13.765 there was a robbery outside of Chanal, not really in 0:20:14.005 --> 0:20:17.925 Chenal proper. He and his company they saw somehow a 0:20:18.285 --> 0:20:22.525 robbery and progress at a pharmacy and chased the people 0:20:22.885 --> 0:20:26.245 and they chased him into one of the Chanal neighborhoods 0:20:26.485 --> 0:20:30.325 and in the process of this, somehow someone ended up 0:20:30.325 --> 0:20:33.805 getting shot and killed. Of the robbers, there's two or 0:20:33.805 --> 0:20:38.485 three of them by one of the Hoopers. Leslie can't 0:20:38.525 --> 0:20:41.845 find the newspaper articles about this now, but she and 0:20:41.885 --> 0:20:45.445 her family also had another unfortunate encounter with the hoopers. 0:20:46.085 --> 0:20:48.645 We had a personal experience with him that was bad 0:20:48.805 --> 0:20:53.285 and where my son was involved. He was a last 0:20:53.285 --> 0:20:56.885 guard at one of the fools here and when he 0:20:56.965 --> 0:20:59.725 was a senior, I mean between senior and college summer, 0:21:00.405 --> 0:21:03.565 you're very young. And he and his friends were out 0:21:03.725 --> 0:21:06.685 running around and he said, Hey, I've got to the pool. 0:21:06.685 --> 0:21:08.165 Do you want to go to the pool? And they're 0:21:08.165 --> 0:21:09.885 all like, go, oh, yeah, of course, you know there 0:21:09.885 --> 0:21:12.685 should be doing that. He was an employee, but he 0:21:12.805 --> 0:21:16.445 did go there after hours and let him in. Leslie's 0:21:16.445 --> 0:21:18.725 son and his friends went into the pool without permission 0:21:18.725 --> 0:21:22.165 after hours, not the pool at Shawmont Park, but a 0:21:22.205 --> 0:21:26.085 pool in a neighborhood nearby. But apparently after they went 0:21:26.125 --> 0:21:29.965 in there, the hooper spotted them. And what happened next 0:21:30.205 --> 0:21:34.245 was extremely disturbing. They came in there and they basically, 0:21:34.365 --> 0:21:36.565 you know, made him get on their their knees and said, 0:21:36.605 --> 0:21:38.485 you know, y'all are in really big trouble and I 0:21:38.485 --> 0:21:41.645 could have blown your head off and said this multiple times, 0:21:40.925 --> 0:21:43.805 and the police came. And I don't know who calls 0:21:43.805 --> 0:21:45.685 the police. I don't know if David, I don't know 0:21:45.725 --> 0:21:48.005 who did. But the police came and said you know, 0:21:48.045 --> 0:21:50.925 you need to calm down. Security guards are supposed to 0:21:50.925 --> 0:21:54.765 de escalate situations, and according to the source we spoke 0:21:54.805 --> 0:21:58.285 to from the homeowners association, the reason they had a 0:21:58.325 --> 0:22:01.085 security guard around there in the first place was mainly 0:22:01.165 --> 0:22:05.045 to deter crime, not to detain people. And when the 0:22:05.045 --> 0:22:08.325 police came, Leslie says that even they were telling the 0:22:08.365 --> 0:22:11.325 Hoopers they needed to calm down, and he was like 0:22:11.405 --> 0:22:14.285 insistent that they give them all tickets. We had to 0:22:14.325 --> 0:22:17.245 go to court over it, and here fine, which is 0:22:17.885 --> 0:22:19.845 mean he lost his job, and that's fine because he 0:22:19.885 --> 0:22:21.845 did break the rules and he shouldn't have been there 0:22:21.885 --> 0:22:25.445 after hours. But I mean, the people of the court 0:22:25.485 --> 0:22:27.765 couldn't believe it that this had made such a big 0:22:27.805 --> 0:22:29.725 deal about this. Then the police even said, you know, 0:22:29.805 --> 0:22:32.325 this is your overboard on this. This is crazy. These 0:22:32.405 --> 0:22:34.285 kids have done. All they're doing is sitting there talking 0:22:34.325 --> 0:22:37.765 around the pool. They really weren't doing anything. Leslie said 0:22:37.845 --> 0:22:40.925 that most of the people in the neighborhood, especially after 0:22:41.045 --> 0:22:45.525 incidents like these, didn't like the Hooper's patrolling. She said 0:22:45.565 --> 0:22:47.925 she didn't really even understand why they needed to be 0:22:47.965 --> 0:22:51.165 there in the first place, but she admitted people were 0:22:51.165 --> 0:22:54.445 reluctant to complain about them because of what she described 0:22:54.485 --> 0:23:01.245 as a fear of retaliation. Leslie remembers the day when 0:23:01.245 --> 0:23:05.045 Ebbie's body was found, and then when they found her, 0:23:05.805 --> 0:23:08.445 I was like, I drove past and I saw it. 0:23:08.485 --> 0:23:11.045 I was like, oh my god, They've found her finally, 0:23:11.605 --> 0:23:13.525 and she's right there right what we all said. She 0:23:13.645 --> 0:23:18.285 probably was the entire time. And it's just so so 0:23:18.525 --> 0:23:21.725 awful for Laurie and Michael and everybody in Trevor and 0:23:21.765 --> 0:23:27.445 everybody hear us that have suffered so long. After Ebby's 0:23:27.445 --> 0:23:30.485 body was found and with the information and her general 0:23:30.525 --> 0:23:35.245 feeling about the Hoopers, Leslie called Tommy Hudson. Anyway, I 0:23:35.245 --> 0:23:39.485 called Tommy Hudson. Oh no, when maybe three years ago, 0:23:40.245 --> 0:23:43.965 after they discovered Every's body and all this came out 0:23:44.085 --> 0:23:46.885 about him seeing her at the you know, there was 0:23:46.925 --> 0:23:50.685 a couple of conflicting stories from him. Leslie told Tommy 0:23:50.765 --> 0:23:52.725 about the story with the Hoopers and her son and 0:23:52.725 --> 0:23:56.125