Speaker 1: Hey, hey, hey, we're back. We're black. I feel better
Speaker 1: and I'm wearing a brown and auditioning T shirt. Ambition,
Speaker 1: hey man.
Speaker 2: Ambition, hayperthing girl, how you doing eggs?
Speaker 1: On top of the birthday. So it turns out I
Speaker 1: had an upper respiratory infection that I had to have
Speaker 1: antibiotics for QQQ, I know, and for the first time
Speaker 1: in like twenty years, they actually had to issue me
Speaker 1: like an athma pump because I could not breathe for
Speaker 1: a oh. They were like, girl, yeah, the audio something going,
Speaker 1: this is a thing going around.
Speaker 2: Well how was Kelly? And now you're making me want
Speaker 2: to say Regis and Kelly?
Speaker 1: How was Kelly?
Speaker 2: Ryan saw you got to go on with her and
Speaker 2: her husband? I do her husband.
Speaker 1: It was only by God's grace because the night before
Speaker 1: I was still like I didn't because I didn't know
Speaker 1: what was wrong with me. So I actually went some
Speaker 1: of the all you know old head athmetics. Remember private
Speaker 1: Team Missed. I remember back in the day when I
Speaker 1: didn't have like my my prescription pump, I would go
Speaker 1: to the CBS and get a Private Team miss which
Speaker 1: is like a general pump, you know. So it's the
Speaker 1: only thing that kept me from like hacking up along
Speaker 1: and I was like, oh my gosh, I can breathe.
Speaker 1: And so but they were. I have to say, I've
Speaker 1: been on a lot of sets and hands down the
Speaker 1: nicest crew. Everyone was nice every single step of the way.
Speaker 1: I you know, and shout out to is his name Eddie.
Speaker 1: He was like the producer of my segment, and he
Speaker 1: was saying that they're known as like the nicest show
Speaker 1: in television. I mean, Kelly, oh my gosh, Kelly. Kelly
Speaker 1: was saying, so Ryan is actually sick with COVID because
Speaker 1: you know, so it was her husband Mark. Mark was nice.
Speaker 1: Kelly was nice. I mean, it was almost to the
Speaker 1: point like do they beat y'all here? Because everybody they do,
Speaker 1: they beat y'all like to be.
Speaker 2: I'm just like, if they did, I think that's what
Speaker 2: happened to the Ellen Show. It wouldn't be that nice.
Speaker 1: I know. But honest see what I tell you, they
Speaker 1: were so nice, and you know, I had such a
Speaker 1: good time and I had not felt that comfortable on
Speaker 1: set like probably ever, just because they were so nice.
Speaker 1: And they're like, oh, we want you to come back
Speaker 1: in January to do some tips. So I'll be back
Speaker 1: in black congurunce.
Speaker 2: That's dope. Thank you, excited for you, and I'm glad
Speaker 2: that you got better. Just some time for your birthday, girl,
Speaker 2: I was like.
Speaker 1: He had lived like this. I'm like, what is this yet?
Speaker 1: It was so besides COVID because I got tested like
Speaker 1: four times. I'm like, it's got to be the VID.
Speaker 1: It wasn't. It was just like I said, there's this
Speaker 1: upper respiratory you know, it's flu season. It wasn't the flu,
Speaker 1: but there's some infection that's like floating around. And so
Speaker 1: because of like.
Speaker 2: No other words to get sick, y'all be safe girl,
Speaker 2: where I'm still.
Speaker 1: Going to mask? Yeah, no, honestly I would suggest it.
Speaker 1: So I'm still I'm not fully like over, I'm like
Speaker 1: ninety percent so I feel pretty good. But yeah, yesterday
Speaker 1: was my birthday, and honestly it was one of my
Speaker 1: best birthdays. Like it was nice because I had a
Speaker 1: bunch of family and friends come before. If you guys
Speaker 1: have not seen, my friend Cabrell forced us off to
Speaker 1: do the cuffet challenge support I had the teach us
Speaker 1: how to do. I know it's on my I.
Speaker 2: Did hard the way I finally did that trend and
Speaker 2: I it took me like twenty minutes. I'm like, yeah,
Speaker 2: look hard, but it's like sick up your stomach and
Speaker 2: pat your head at the same time, kind of a.
Speaker 1: Cup it, you know, like that the Beyonce Like, no,
Speaker 1: I know the challenge.
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, yeah, I just hadn't seen on your page yet.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So like, so first of all, he made us I'll
Speaker 1: watch the tutorio like thirteen thousand times. And then poor
Speaker 1: Melissa had to guide all these old folks like how baby,
Speaker 1: how do you put the news to go on? Hi?
Speaker 1: She was like, oh my god, so she's leading in
Speaker 1: the front. But we had such a good time. Honestly,
Speaker 1: it was such a fun birthday. Yeah, like I you know,
Speaker 1: it was like it's my first without Jarell. And it
Speaker 1: was nice because usually I would wake up in the
Speaker 1: morning and like downstairs, as soon as you come downstairs,
Speaker 1: it'd be like he would have a present and balloons
Speaker 1: and whatever. And Tracy remembered that, so, you know, I
Speaker 1: came downstairs and there were my balloons, which was really nice.
Speaker 1: And I don't know, like it was just like I'm
Speaker 1: in a space now where I'm simultaneously holding space for
Speaker 1: both grief and gratefulness. You know, It's like I didn't
Speaker 1: think you could hold both at the same time, and
Speaker 1: I'm doing that. And so it was just such an
Speaker 1: awesome birthday, just like really great food, Like all the
Speaker 1: kids were here, like like I said, my Sunday's Supper crew.
Speaker 1: So it was just a really really really nice time
Speaker 1: and I was just, yeah, it just was one of
Speaker 1: my birth best birthdays yet.
Speaker 2: And so I feel like getting sick was one of
Speaker 2: my you know how when you had something big coming
Speaker 2: up and you're like, please, lure not now. I had to.
Speaker 2: For the past two weeks, I have been cramming and
Speaker 2: like working so hard because my Maybe money Maker Academy finally,
Speaker 2: I was transitioning it from I used to teach live
Speaker 2: and you know tip. Now I'm doing an on demand course.
Speaker 2: So I was transitioning everything onto the platform that I'm using.
Speaker 2: And it was a two week grind and I was
Speaker 2: up a launch day with Saturday, and you know, I
Speaker 2: set the deadline myself and then but I got it
Speaker 2: done and I'm so happy. Yeah, everything is going smoothly.
Speaker 2: I'm so happy that I made this transition. Transitions are hard,
Speaker 2: but I know, what's that thing you said, like you
Speaker 2: want to make decisions now for like when pre pivot. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: So this was more like a pre pivot and an
Speaker 2: investment in like a you know, like a more expensive
Speaker 2: platform and all of that. But I think it was
Speaker 2: really smooth. I think all my experience as a manager,
Speaker 2: trying to like, you know, people would change can be
Speaker 2: a little trying to tell the team, hey, we're going
Speaker 2: to change the way we do things. That's how I
Speaker 2: feel my bandy money Makers. I'm like, y'all, it's going
Speaker 2: to be some stuff going on. You're gonna have to
Speaker 2: think about what you're gonna do, and you're gonna have
Speaker 2: to let me know, and it's gonna be fine. Yes,
Speaker 2: just do not be alarmed. And you know, I had
Speaker 2: a couple of people who were alarmed in Panama. Of course,
Speaker 2: there's always going to be there's always a couple.
Speaker 3: I know.
Speaker 2: It's just like managing people, like it's just like being
Speaker 2: a boss. I realize that now. Yeah, I'm really proud
Speaker 2: of that. And a good friend of mine named Charity,
Speaker 2: she has a book that comes out tomorrow, so I
Speaker 2: want to give her a quick shout out. This book
Speaker 2: is phenomenal. She she came and talked to my makers
Speaker 2: about it. It's called Power, The Rise of Black Women
Speaker 2: in America. It is out tomorrow, and it's how black
Speaker 2: women embody the American dream, defy oppression and win.
Speaker 1: So it is.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it's a wonderful book and it's really it
Speaker 2: was challenging for her to find, I know, to like
Speaker 2: get the agent and get the publisher and all of
Speaker 2: that because I feel like we are so used to
Speaker 2: stories of black women struggling. They were like, you want
Speaker 2: to write a book about how black women are doing
Speaker 2: great and thriving and you know, doing better than our
Speaker 2: previous generations and all of that. And Charity is like, yes,
Speaker 2: I want to write a book like that. So she did,
Speaker 2: and I'm so proud of her. Can we put the
Speaker 2: link in our show note? Oh yes, I would love to.
Speaker 1: Yeah. So does she have like a book page like
Speaker 1: you know, like or do we get you would directly from.
Speaker 2: She does not have the budget needs to playbook for
Speaker 2: a book.
Speaker 1: And just because in case she had, like you know,
Speaker 1: like charity something such dot com or something like that,
Speaker 1: you know.
Speaker 2: But no, I know I wish I had, like I
Speaker 2: don't think so. But by the time you guys get
Speaker 2: this episode, I will have the right link. If she
Speaker 2: does have a landing page, I will have it there
Speaker 2: for you.
Speaker 1: Well, can we talk about another book by a black
Speaker 1: woman that was so transformative?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 1: So I recently read have you heard of the NAP Ministry? Yes?
Speaker 2: Oh MG, of course I love it.
Speaker 1: So so I've been following the nat Ministry on IGS
Speaker 1: just you know, I honestly just thought it was like, oh,
Speaker 1: fun memes, memes. Yeah, no, no, no, no, no. So
Speaker 1: the woman's name who started the net Ministry, she calls
Speaker 1: herself then the NAP Bishop, and it sounds like, oh
Speaker 1: cute and kitchen. No, it is a political movement. She's
Speaker 1: got a manifesto, a book called rest is Resistant. And
Speaker 1: what I tell you, if you are a black woman,
Speaker 1: you need to read this. Get the Get the Get
Speaker 1: the audiobook. It was so powerful. Like I'm someone who
Speaker 1: y'all know, like like to read a lot, you know,
Speaker 1: listen to a lot of books. But I one day
Speaker 1: Usually that's like unheard of. Usually I'll listen to over
Speaker 1: a few weeks or a week or so. No, all
Speaker 1: in one day. I literally took a two hour walk
Speaker 1: just so I can finish it. It was so powerful
Speaker 1: her her like mono or mantra is rest is resistance
Speaker 1: and we will rest. It is just so powerful. The
Speaker 1: book is really just about how we were all overworked
Speaker 1: and overwhelmed and that how you do not have to
Speaker 1: earn rest, that is your divine birthright, and like we're
Speaker 1: all doing too much and if we would all just
Speaker 1: slow down just for a moment, you know that we
Speaker 1: can live more fully, deeper, happier, more centered lives. It
Speaker 1: is just it is a love letter to black women,
Speaker 1: you know, and I just I cannot recommend it enough. Yeah,
Speaker 1: Like honestly, I almost wept when I finished it, honestly,
Speaker 1: Like that's how much it spoke to my spirit because
Speaker 1: you know, I mean you already know you know an entrepreneur,
Speaker 1: which just it's you work so hard. And I'm not
Speaker 1: saying you're not supposed to work hard, but sometimes we
Speaker 1: lose sight of like wait, so when does it stop?
Speaker 1: Like what is the end goal? Because sometimes work begets work,
Speaker 1: you know, And where do you draw the line in
Speaker 1: the sand. And it was just such a beautiful book
Speaker 1: that helped me to reshape and rethink what is it
Speaker 1: that I'm working toward. Then how do I integrate rest more?
Speaker 1: Because you hear me now, my voice sounds like this.
Speaker 1: I mean, if you're used to my voice, it's a
Speaker 1: little huskier than normal. But I was sick because of
Speaker 1: lack of rest. Honestly, I was getting sick. I felt it,
Speaker 1: and instead of resting, I pushed and pushed and pushed
Speaker 1: until I got upper respiratory infection and had to use
Speaker 1: an asthma pump for the first time in twenty years.
Speaker 1: Like and meanwhile, I don't have to work if I
Speaker 1: don't want to. So it's not like, oh my gosh,
Speaker 1: s Tiffany, because how you gonna pay these bills? Girl?
Speaker 1: How are you gonna So it's like, so I really
Speaker 1: needed it, and I just I suspect that most of
Speaker 1: y'all listening could use that book too. I cannot recommend
Speaker 1: it enough. It's just it's just it's beautifully written. She's
Speaker 1: a poet, so there's a lot of that's the sense
Speaker 1: you get when you hear her read it to you.
Speaker 1: But it's just a really powerful book. Rest Is Resistance
Speaker 1: by Tricia Well, we'll put the link in our our
Speaker 1: show notes too. Tricia hersey h e r s E y.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I can't wait. I that one's on my list.
Speaker 1: I don't know how you get through so many books.
Speaker 2: TIF. I take walks too, but sometimes I just want
Speaker 2: to listen to the birds. And I have a bad
Speaker 2: habit of when I have a moment of peace, I'm like, oh,
Speaker 2: turn something on a podcast like audiobook and anyway, but
Speaker 2: I will add it to the list. I will actually
Speaker 2: listen to it, especially if it's only a couple hours long.
Speaker 1: Come on, yeah, it's only like about five And I'll
Speaker 1: say this that like, so usually when I walk, I
Speaker 1: usually I either listen to a book to your point,
Speaker 1: listen to the bird, talk to her friend. But typically
Speaker 1: what I listen to books when i'm cleaning, you know,
Speaker 1: because I'm not gonna lie, well, I'm sure most of
Speaker 1: us I hate cleaning, so a book helps me to
Speaker 1: keep going. So that's what I was doing. I was
Speaker 1: doing laundry and cleaning, and so it was like keep going,
Speaker 1: keep going. So that's what it helped, you know, like
Speaker 1: to do so but yeah, so yeah, I just it
Speaker 1: just like I said, it was just it was a delight.
Speaker 1: But certainly it was definitely an eye opener of like,
Speaker 1: what are you working toward again, Tifney, slow down.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm at this period now where I really get
Speaker 2: that and I've incorporated. I've created this lifestyle that I
Speaker 2: just love. I'm so protective of it. Yeah, you know,
Speaker 2: my my afternoons, I do take a lot of naps.
Speaker 2: I don't do this whole transformation of BNDY money Makers
Speaker 2: has created a space where I'm not going to be
Speaker 2: I'm not going to have to repeat myself and do
Speaker 2: the same thing again and again unnecessarily, you know. So
Speaker 2: we're always teaching lessons again and again. Live the fact
Speaker 2: that now I pre recorded that and I can show
Speaker 2: up and do the you know, do the group coaching
Speaker 2: and give that guidance fresh like I'm and able to
Speaker 2: say no to things and I but I also feel
Speaker 2: like we all sometimes we are good at the whole
Speaker 2: rest thing and the you know, taking care of ourselves,
Speaker 2: and then there's like these cycles and you kind of
Speaker 2: find yourself getting out of balance again, and that's where
Speaker 2: you like need that book or need that reminder. So
Speaker 2: I feel like this is going to be in my
Speaker 2: survival kit of when I start, because I'm I mean,
Speaker 2: I got some stuff planned. I'm like, oh God, the
Speaker 2: chaos is coming. So I can't wait to read that.
Speaker 2: I'm so grateful that not only that she that this
Speaker 2: mystery is out there, but that their message seems to
Speaker 2: be hitting, like we're absorbing it changing because of it.
Speaker 2: Why don't we have a guest today? Yeah, I'm excited
Speaker 2: for you guys to meet. Well, we have a couple
Speaker 2: of exciting things we have in house, B, a Q
Speaker 2: and A. Finally, we are listening. We have our We've
Speaker 2: selected some listeners to join us live on the show,
Speaker 2: which we'll have our first today, and then we also
Speaker 2: have another special guest, Icobathia. And if you guys have
Speaker 2: heard me rave about Ico. She is a diversity inclusion expert,
Speaker 2: one of the originals, and she is currently working at
Speaker 2: like the biggest consulting firm I believe in Dee I Work,
Speaker 2: which is Brene Brown's organization. And if you know Brene Brown,
Speaker 2: I Goo is right there with her and she's gonna
Speaker 2: come on and talk to us and I can't wait.
Speaker 1: Yes, she's up next. So we're gonna take a quick
Speaker 1: break and then bring back Ico and we're back and
Speaker 1: black from break, we have a special guest in our studio.
Speaker 1: I go, Bethia, Am I saying right now?
Speaker 3: Right?
Speaker 1: Last name? Right, Bethia, you are Yes, that's a very
Speaker 1: juicy black name. But Fia, I can.
Speaker 3: Tell you stories about that name.
Speaker 1: But yes, So we're gonna welcome her into Bana Vision
Speaker 1: and Mandra tell us a little bit bit more about.
Speaker 2: Yeah, give me that, Mike. Let me tell you all
Speaker 2: about my friend Ico. I have been cyberstalking Ico for
Speaker 2: probably the past couple of years, and it was when
Speaker 2: I listen into an episode of Brenet Brown's Dared to
Speaker 2: Lead podcasts and herd Ico on the podcast when I
Speaker 2: knew we needed to have her on Brown Ambition. But
Speaker 2: let me tell you a little bit about Ico. She
Speaker 2: started her career as a grassroots community organizer. She has
Speaker 2: worked for the City of Atlanta as an attorney alongside
Speaker 2: someone y'all might know, Stacy Abrams. I don't know, little
Speaker 2: just throwing that out there. Worked for the Bill and
Speaker 2: Melinda Gates Foundations, where she started to first get where
Speaker 2: she first started to get involved with the important work
Speaker 2: of creating things like employee resource groups, leading some of
Speaker 2: the organization's first conversations around race. Not because it was
Speaker 2: her job description, but because she knew that was at
Speaker 2: the core of what she wanted to demonstrate in her
Speaker 2: life and work, she dove headfirst into that equity work
Speaker 2: full time when she founded her own consulting firm, We
Speaker 2: Love a Badass Entrepreneur. I Goo founded her very own
Speaker 2: consulting firm called Rare Coaching, where she has consulted with
Speaker 2: some of the biggest corporations globally around the country for sure,
Speaker 2: and today she is a part of the Berne Brown
Speaker 2: Education and Research Group, where she is also a senior
Speaker 2: director at Frontline Solutions, which is a black owned consulting firm.
Speaker 2: Ico says she's guided by her unique background as a
Speaker 2: black and Asian American woman, with her intrinsic values of
Speaker 2: justice and loyalty, and her role as a mama of
Speaker 2: two black sons. With this perspective, Iico's able to use
Speaker 2: her passion and drive to create conversations and change around
Speaker 2: race and equity in the communications and organizations.
Speaker 1: That she serves.
Speaker 2: Glad to be here with y'all, So happy to have
Speaker 2: you whoo all right, I Goo so as someone who
Speaker 2: works with these organizations and helps them do better in
Speaker 2: ways that make workplaces less hostile for black and brown workers. Right,
Speaker 2: what is that work like? And how do you are
Speaker 2: you heartened by it?
Speaker 1: Like?
Speaker 2: Are you optimistic by the changes that you're seeing these
Speaker 2: corporations make? Can you talk about that a little bit.
Speaker 3: Yeah. So, one thing I probably say to distinguish some
Speaker 3: of the work I do is that I don't solely
Speaker 3: center on when people say diversity equity inclusion work, but
Speaker 3: I solely center on leadership development work period. And my
Speaker 3: belief is that if you're a strong, competent leader, you're
Speaker 3: going to have diverse, equable, inclusive teams and workplaces and
Speaker 3: higher retention. Like you can't do one if you're not
Speaker 3: a stellar leader period, a competent leader. If I were
Speaker 3: only focused on equity or racial equity work or gender
Speaker 3: equity work, I would probably be exhausted all the time.
Speaker 3: So you know, the emotional labor behind that mental labor
Speaker 3: behind that is concentrated in being the work and doing
Speaker 3: the work can be exhausting. So I appreciate doing leadership
Speaker 3: work as well so that people can understand the sustainability
Speaker 3: part and not just segregate it and say all that
Speaker 3: d I work is over there. This doesn't have thing
Speaker 3: to do with me. This is like the ex or
Speaker 3: curricular work.
Speaker 2: I think that's really powerful. I'm glad you said that.
Speaker 2: It's like the it's the foundation of great leadership. It's
Speaker 2: not something that you can just have your HR director.
Speaker 3: Do exactly, Mandy.
Speaker 1: So where do you see like the biggest gaps where
Speaker 1: I mean, I feel like there were so many promises
Speaker 1: made during you know, after George Floyd and you know
Speaker 1: we're here now. Where do you see the biggest gaps
Speaker 1: where you find yourself saying this is where I need
Speaker 1: to put my time and effort and energy into.
Speaker 3: I think it comes down a lot of it, especially
Speaker 3: if I'm just focusing on the global north too. I
Speaker 3: think it's about people not even having the time to
Speaker 3: be human, because to be connected to folks, for me
Speaker 3: to fully see Tiffany, for me to fully see Mandy,
Speaker 3: I need to actually not be so inundated in my
Speaker 3: own brain about all the things I need to do.
Speaker 3: So when you're always just on a hamster will period
Speaker 3: and there's not that space to one connect with people,
Speaker 3: and there really isn't that space to check yourself and
Speaker 3: also recognize the barriers that you're putting up for other
Speaker 3: people like that takes self awareness, pausing introspection, and then
Speaker 3: also the effort to retool and do something different. And
Speaker 3: so I think in the workplace there just hasn't been
Speaker 3: enough space for one people to be humane to themselves
Speaker 3: or to other people. And then there's this other part
Speaker 3: about just accountability. You're going to say you're doing all
Speaker 3: this stuff, or we're this type of place to work,
Speaker 3: but when people don't show up that way, or they're
Speaker 3: really doing harm to other folks, and usually the same
Speaker 3: people who look the same, who are less empowered in
Speaker 3: society are the ones who are experiencing that harm. But
Speaker 3: then there's no accountability. And sometimes in some workplaces there's
Speaker 3: actually a reward to that, right you're not spending time
Speaker 3: trying to hold the hands of your employees or get
Speaker 3: to know them. You're just getting stuff done no matter
Speaker 3: what the cost. Therefore you're getting more of the kudos
Speaker 3: or the bonuses because you're selling more, you're working your
Speaker 3: people harder, they're producing more, versus thinking about the way
Speaker 3: that people experience the workplace, or that maybe you don't
Speaker 3: have the highest retention rates or do you even have
Speaker 3: lower retention rates when it comes to your brown and
Speaker 3: black folks, your women, other folks, and no one notices
Speaker 3: that because maybe there's only two in the organization anyway.
Speaker 2: How do you shift that perception? Because I mean, I
Speaker 2: work for publicly traded companies and when I tell you
Speaker 2: it's all about that quarterly you know report, What's Wall
Speaker 2: Street going to say? How do our what are our margins?
Speaker 2: What's profit look like? You know, quarter after quarter? And
Speaker 2: I know you've worked for some really big corporations, But
Speaker 2: how do you start to shift that mentality of this
Speaker 2: stuff matters retention rates of black and brown talent, engagement rates,
Speaker 2: those other measurements that you talked about, How do you
Speaker 2: start to shift that mentality and convince them that this
Speaker 2: is good for business?
Speaker 3: So I will say one thing is the avenue that
Speaker 3: I come from is that I don't really care about
Speaker 3: the business part, right, because that's always coming down to
Speaker 3: how much can somebody produce? And our value is definitely
Speaker 3: beyond what we can produce, right, even though we think
Speaker 3: about what's the workplace? Therefore people say profit. The other
Speaker 3: part I'll talk about is what we do know, especially
Speaker 3: since more research has been done about this with COVID,
Speaker 3: like why do people quit and leave? Is recognizing even
Speaker 3: for the Great Resignation, the number one reason that people
Speaker 3: left didn't have to do with compensation, didn't have to
Speaker 3: do with COVID, didn't have to do with remote work.
Speaker 3: It had to do with people saying, I'm working a
Speaker 3: toxic culture. And the way they define toxic culture was
Speaker 3: about a culture of disrespect, lack of ethics, dismissing issues
Speaker 3: that pertain diversity, equity, inclusion. So you can't even keep
Speaker 3: your workforce. And how much does it cost to actually
Speaker 3: even hire and retain talent and to retrain talent. That's
Speaker 3: another thing. The other great thing is because there's podcasts
Speaker 3: like yours, there's things like classdoor all these other places,
Speaker 3: is where we can actually assess what an organization is
Speaker 3: like before we buy from them as a consumer, before
Speaker 3: we even apply to work there. So there's a greater
Speaker 3: accountability beyond the walls of an organization. And you know, customers, consumers,
Speaker 3: people are getting savvier that get a line in a
Speaker 3: heartbeat to look at what's happening or find out what
Speaker 3: happened on that runway that had either clothing products or
Speaker 3: what have you that was disparaging to us. Everybody knows
Speaker 3: about black Twitter, the accountability looks really different, and it's
Speaker 3: very hard to recover a brand, especially when it's harmed
Speaker 3: by its own behaviors or ethics. So I appreciate those
Speaker 3: aspects of even the social media and people being more
Speaker 3: willing to be transparent about what their experiences have been
Speaker 3: at different workplaces.
Speaker 1: So if someone is in a workplace right now, there
Speaker 1: was We take the podcast Brand Ambition qbaqa earlier with
Speaker 1: the young women woman who is a nerve and she
Speaker 1: said she looks around and no one looks like her,
Speaker 1: and she just feels like when she brings it up
Speaker 1: the hot, the powers that be react from a place
Speaker 1: of defensiveness. So what does someone like that do when
Speaker 1: they are trying to be part of the solution. You know,
Speaker 1: they're not looking to accuse, but just looking to create change.
Speaker 1: You know, what are the options for her?
Speaker 3: Like?
Speaker 1: What should she be doing?
Speaker 3: So, Tiffany and Mandy, one of the things I'll tell
Speaker 3: you first is that when people come to me, especially
Speaker 3: folks of color, black and brown people, and they show
Speaker 3: those types six marriages. The first thing I am counseling
Speaker 3: and coaching people around is giving themselves permission not to
Speaker 3: have to fix everything with permission not to educate people.
Speaker 2: I feel good about our advice. Now tip the one
Speaker 2: I feel good about our advice.
Speaker 1: You don't have to carry the whole world to your shoulders.
Speaker 2: Sis, Yes, I'm pretty much to quit, but yeah, give
Speaker 2: us your take.
Speaker 3: I guess for yourself. I will tell you that after
Speaker 3: usually coaching engagements, I think last year or within the
Speaker 3: last eighteen months, probably two CEOs who I coach step down.
Speaker 3: So there's this idea also centering yourself and understanding what's
Speaker 3: my purpose? What are my values? Is this aligned? Is
Speaker 3: this aligned with who I want to be as my
Speaker 3: aspirational self? If it is not, the longer you stay
Speaker 3: on that Hampshire will the more you're going to get
Speaker 3: in a place where there's lower morale, maybe lower aspect
Speaker 3: of your self worth, maybe further from your purpose in life.
Speaker 3: So I'm always centering the client about what do they want.
Speaker 3: I'm not going to ever be coaching you to coach
Speaker 3: which assimilate and do all these other things. It's what
Speaker 3: do you want? Who are you? And who do you
Speaker 3: want to be? What's your inspired self look like? So
Speaker 3: that's the first thing I'm going to say. The other
Speaker 3: part is there's a reality of what we have space
Speaker 3: to do and not do in a given moment. So
Speaker 3: everybody doesn't have a privilege to just walk off of
Speaker 3: a job or tell somebody what I really think about you,
Speaker 3: but the idea of how do you make it so
Speaker 3: in terms of what your inspired life looks like, what
Speaker 3: is steps you need to take? But most importantly, why
Speaker 3: are you at this workplace now? And how is it
Speaker 3: serving you? So now I'm making an intentional choice and
Speaker 3: informed choice of I'm staying here because maybe because you
Speaker 3: know what, my kids need health insurance, or maybe it's
Speaker 3: because X, Y and Z, or it's serving me because
Speaker 3: I'm getting this experience is going to allow me to
Speaker 3: be a B or C later, But being intentional because
Speaker 3: one of the things that we often find ourselves doing
Speaker 3: is showing up by default because everybody said that's a
Speaker 3: good job, and I need to stay at it, because
Speaker 3: I should be grateful to be here, because I don't
Speaker 3: know if anybody else will take me, because I'm afraid
Speaker 3: and what else could be out there, what people are
Speaker 3: going to say about me? And sometimes it is I'm
Speaker 3: more comfortable with the devil, I know. But at least
Speaker 3: if you intentionally know why you're doing it, now you
Speaker 3: have ownership over your choice and you're not just living
Speaker 3: a life by default. So those are the first things
Speaker 3: I'm telling people. It's the center of them versus whatever
Speaker 3: is happening in the system around you. You know, I
Speaker 3: want you to notice what's happening in the system, but
Speaker 3: I don't want to you to take the default route of
Speaker 3: I have to fix it, or it's my problem, or
Speaker 3: I need.
Speaker 1: To stay here.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think one of the when we were talking
Speaker 2: to that listener. And then also in my work, so
Speaker 2: I have a group coaching community for women of color
Speaker 2: professionals from across the country, and I also did one
Speaker 2: on one career coaching, just dozens and dozens and dozens
Speaker 2: and dozens of one on one calls, and one of
Speaker 2: the one of the I'm still trying to figure this out.
Speaker 2: I'm trying to encourage more women of color to look
Speaker 2: at leadership as an opportunity. And what I'm the response
Speaker 2: I'm getting is often politics, work, stress won't be supported.
Speaker 2: Fewer of us get at the top that look like us.
Speaker 2: How can I expect to be any different? And I'm
Speaker 2: just wondering if you have any if you've felt, if
Speaker 2: you've heard the same things, or if you have some
Speaker 2: advice for me, and how I can I have my
Speaker 2: own way of encouraging that and trying to not push
Speaker 2: but just show the possibility of what can happen when
Speaker 2: we do sort of end up in those rooms and
Speaker 2: get those leadership roles. But it is one of the
Speaker 2: common things I hear again and again is I know
Speaker 2: I could be a leader, but it seems like, damned
Speaker 2: if you do, damned if you don't kind of proposition,
Speaker 2: I'm going to get there and I'm going to be
Speaker 2: the razor thin margin for error is going to be
Speaker 2: like this, I'm going to screw up and get kicked
Speaker 2: out or I'm not going to have any support. You
Speaker 2: know what would you say to that?
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think I'm going to go back to the
Speaker 3: idea of what do you want? So one is not
Speaker 3: throwing it out because you feel like this is what
Speaker 3: it's going to be like before you get a chance
Speaker 3: to be in that seat of what is it really
Speaker 3: going to be like? I don't close your options off
Speaker 3: before you have the experience. You can always go and
Speaker 3: be at that high level of leadership and then decide
Speaker 3: this isn't for me. But if you jump off before
Speaker 3: it's even the opportunity, then we're allowing the diminished expectations.
Speaker 3: And also oftentimes, unfortunately what we've seen happen to other
Speaker 3: people dictate what our destiny is and that may not
Speaker 3: be the case. So still idea of my mantra for
Speaker 3: my folks, my clients and whatnot. It's really you're here
Speaker 3: to define success in your own terms. If it looks
Speaker 3: like being in that other seat, that higher seat, than
Speaker 3: go after it. But know also who you are and
Speaker 3: what your boundaries are about what you're not going to do,
Speaker 3: and if it's not what you want to do, then
Speaker 3: understand why is it that you feel like this is
Speaker 3: a story to telling yourself and the life that you're
Speaker 3: creating for yourself, Because that's really important too, because more
Speaker 3: likely it's some kind of other boundaries that are probably
Speaker 3: that may be breached too.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a story you tell yourself. And it's also no,
Speaker 2: I totally agree, it's like the fear of the unknown.
Speaker 2: It's also the fact that there's so many stats that
Speaker 2: tell us how bad it is.
Speaker 3: Love.
Speaker 2: I was a journalist and my former career, and I
Speaker 2: would write about those stats, the wage gap and the
Speaker 2: women in the workplace reports from Cheryl Sandburd's organization that
Speaker 2: show how few of us are as you get up the
Speaker 2: corporate ladder, and I would always just kind of be like,
Speaker 2: uh huh, not me. It can't be me, Like there
Speaker 2: you know, exceptions to the rule. It's an act of survival,
Speaker 2: I think, to sort of be able to recognize the
Speaker 2: stats and then also say, in spite of that or nevertheless,
Speaker 2: you know what, my story can be different. And that's
Speaker 2: one of the harder things I think it is for
Speaker 2: to get over that mindset hump.
Speaker 3: I think, and Tiffany's of course living proof of this too,
Speaker 3: is that there's also the idea of all the bright
Speaker 3: lights out there when it is done, Because if we
Speaker 3: look at the stats around entrepreneurs, women who are entrepreneurs,
Speaker 3: black and brown women who are entreprepreneurs, none of us
Speaker 3: should be in the bracket we're in, right. Then there's
Speaker 3: on top of that, I always question data and how
Speaker 3: it's gathered anyway, So when I think about people in
Speaker 3: my community who are entrepreneurs and they're you know, cosmetologists,
Speaker 3: doing hair, doing it steta, they're making six figures. That's
Speaker 3: not necessarily calling the data. So I would have once
Speaker 3: upon a time been like, I'm not going to be
Speaker 3: doing hair. I'm not gonna blow because I can't make
Speaker 3: it living. And now I'm looking at some of my
Speaker 3: friends and colleagues who make you know, three hundred thousand
Speaker 3: and more. They're doing hair, and that's not something that's
Speaker 3: necessarily looked at as a career for many folks. But
Speaker 3: I'm like, you have got to be able to find
Speaker 3: success on your own terms of what you want and
Speaker 3: make it so. Because if I believed everything that was
Speaker 3: written in the stats, because we know that there's so
Speaker 3: many stories about us that are not told because no
Speaker 3: one's seeking them. And then there's the idea of what
Speaker 3: does a qualitative lifestyle look like. So there's also data
Speaker 3: that shows that many of us who work in corporate America,
Speaker 3: who were making great money economically, we went to all
Speaker 3: the schools that we're supposed to go to. We will
Speaker 3: die before somebody else who may be at a lower
Speaker 3: income bracket who looks like us. And I could give
Speaker 3: you a few guesses. I'm sure y'all know exactly why
Speaker 3: and where's that stress coming from, Tiffany. Is it coming
Speaker 3: from the fact that you may not be able to
Speaker 3: pay the light bill? No? Is coming from what.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's just we are tied. I needed to say this,
Speaker 1: I goo because I was just sharing with Mandy earlier
Speaker 1: that I just read this book, this Resistance. Oh that's
Speaker 1: for taking out when I tell you, every brown woman,
Speaker 1: I know she had the book, but two.
Speaker 2: Well you should send me one because Amazon's trip and
Speaker 2: I haven't gotten mine yet.
Speaker 3: To everybody, I am knowing tie everybody.
Speaker 1: I listened to it the day before yesterday, in completion,
Speaker 1: in one sitting, I took a walk, I did laundry.
Speaker 1: Yes it was I wept, I cried, and then I slept.
Speaker 3: Yes, we will rest.
Speaker 1: When I tell you, it spoke to my soul because
Speaker 1: we are tired. I'm tired, you know, because you carry
Speaker 1: the whole weight of all things on your shoulders. And
Speaker 1: you're right, Like I didn't have stress when I started
Speaker 1: making really good money about you know, whether I could
Speaker 1: pay bills and everything else. But there was just this
Speaker 1: the stress of like, you know, success and making sure
Speaker 1: everybody else is okay, and and am I doing right
Speaker 1: by my people, and am I doing enough? Yeah? And
Speaker 1: I just this book gave me kind of like the
Speaker 1: permission that I needed that I was already starting to
Speaker 1: give myself is that you don't have to do anymore.
Speaker 1: You do not have to qualify or quantify your life.
Speaker 1: You know, like if you had stayed a preschool teacher,
Speaker 1: it would have been enough. If you had just in
Speaker 1: the budget they said, it would have been enough. If
Speaker 1: you had been a mom and stayed at home, it
Speaker 1: would have been enough. If you had never had children
Speaker 1: and stayed single and had your record, it would have
Speaker 1: been enough. You do not have to qualify your life.
Speaker 1: You don't have to add on too. I don't have
Speaker 1: to do anymore. I don't owe anyone, you know, and
Speaker 1: then except to show up in the fullness of who
Speaker 1: you are. And so like we are tired, we will
Speaker 1: rest and I cannot. You know, that is the space
Speaker 1: that I'm navigating from, because it's just I mean, I
Speaker 1: tell this to my mentees all the time, that the
Speaker 1: real work is in the reaping, not the sewing.
Speaker 3: You know, yes, yes, for the people in the back.
Speaker 1: Because when I tell you, it seems like in the beginning,
Speaker 1: I get it when you first started out, You're like, oh, no, no,
Speaker 1: I'm putting in so much work to plant these seeds,
Speaker 1: you think, until those seeds grow trees, and those trees
Speaker 1: grow apples, and it's more apples than you could ever hold.
Speaker 1: And at first it seems like such a blessing. And
Speaker 1: then you're like, well, where what what baskets about? What?
Speaker 1: How do I even harvest apples? And where do I
Speaker 1: put them? And so meaning that like for I'll give
Speaker 1: you guys an example. So my book comes out, it
Speaker 1: becomes a New York Times bestseller. More opportunities to hit
Speaker 1: my inbox, I say yes to those opportunities. More opportunities
Speaker 1: hit my inbox. I say yes, So I have more opportunity.
Speaker 1: I say more opportunity. And before you know it, you're
Speaker 1: drowning and all the goodness you are literally drowning and
Speaker 1: all the opportunities and it seems like such a good
Speaker 1: problem to have, but it's it is. It is the
Speaker 1: reason why my blood pressure has shot up to places
Speaker 1: where I stopped taking it because I was scared to
Speaker 1: even see the numbers one sixty over something. Can you imagine?
Speaker 1: And I was like terrified to like, I gart he
Speaker 1: a doctor and she was just like, girl, I knew
Speaker 1: I was stressed out, but I didn't know that my
Speaker 1: body knew that I was stressed out, you know, and
Speaker 1: use the store. Yeah, so that's another book that I've read,
Speaker 1: Your Body Keeps the Score. And it was way before
Speaker 1: Drew had passed away, My husband had passed away, And
Speaker 1: it wasn't until he did that I was like, so
Speaker 1: what are we going to do, Tiffany? Are you next?
Speaker 1: You have to make a decision, girl, Like what are
Speaker 1: we going to do? You know, like, at some point
Speaker 1: you have to decide are you going to choose life
Speaker 1: for yourself?
Speaker 3: Yes?
Speaker 1: Yes, you know, are you going to choose life? I
Speaker 1: get it. You want to help your people, you want
Speaker 1: to do good, But at what cost? Do you have
Speaker 1: to be a physical martyr for all the things? And
Speaker 1: so I decided no that I said, you have to
Speaker 1: choose a struggle. Either you're grieving for your husband or
Speaker 1: you're going to grieve for your own life. And so
Speaker 1: I decided to get healthier and I lost twenty five pounds. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I eat better, you know, I work out well, I walk,
Speaker 1: and I relax more and even like I have this
Speaker 1: up respiratory like coffee because I've been doing too much
Speaker 1: the last couple of weeks. But and when I went
Speaker 1: to the doctor, she'd asked me, like, you know, do
Speaker 1: you have like high blood pressure, diabetes whatever? And I
Speaker 1: was like, you know, black people, I'm not climbing it.
Speaker 1: I was like, noil. And so she took my blood pressure,
Speaker 1: which I had not had taken in like months, and
Speaker 1: it was normal. It was like one twenty five over
Speaker 1: like seventy two. And I was like, yes, yes, because
Speaker 1: what that means is because although I am definitely going
Speaker 1: through a seemingly stressful part of business right now, what
Speaker 1: that means is I am learning to say you come first,
Speaker 1: and that although those things are happening, I'm not allowing
Speaker 1: it to tear down what's on the inside. And I
Speaker 1: just want to give all of us permission that as
Speaker 1: you do the good work, it starts with you. You know,
Speaker 1: it really does start with you. That you are no,
Speaker 1: you're not going to be helpful to anyone broken and
Speaker 1: and tired and exhausted, and I just I'm just so
Speaker 1: glad you're here so people can hear that, yes, we
Speaker 1: want to do the good work. We want diversity and inclusion.
Speaker 1: You want to have a voice of you want to
Speaker 1: sit at the table, but you don't have to do
Speaker 1: all the things by yourself.
Speaker 3: And really I have a question for you. I want
Speaker 3: to ask you in a minuta, and maybe Mandy too
Speaker 3: write it down here. Some don't forget, but that part
Speaker 3: of starting with giving ourselves permission. Sometimes we don't even
Speaker 3: know what we're giving our sales permission to do because
Speaker 3: it's so unfathomable. So the idea of rest, many of
Speaker 3: us think we know what it is, but have never
Speaker 3: experienced it, never seen it, and we really don't know
Speaker 3: what it is. And I think on some level our
Speaker 3: body even rejects it because it's so unknown. So you're
Speaker 3: sitting on a sofa, or you're doing some different things,
Speaker 3: you need to get up and do this. The to
Speaker 3: do list is just right there, heyble, And we don't
Speaker 3: know how to say no because six hundred people are
Speaker 3: asking us to do stuff. So we think that if
Speaker 3: we're not doing things that are on the job, then
Speaker 3: I'm resting, But you're really not. And so this idea
Speaker 3: of imagination and world building seeing other women do it,
Speaker 3: giving ourselves permission even to be in luxury and not
Speaker 3: feel guilty about it, but we have to start even
Speaker 3: being able to imagine it because many of us have
Speaker 3: never even seen it or felt it before. So I'd
Speaker 3: ask you, Tiffany and Mandy, like, what is it that
Speaker 3: you had to be able to do to even imagine
Speaker 3: what it looks like to rest? And one you already
Speaker 3: give yourself permission, but then to do it and to
Speaker 3: figure out what's working and that it's okay? What did
Speaker 3: you do?
Speaker 1: I had to take like time away, you know, after
Speaker 1: my husband passed away and I realized I was just like,
Speaker 1: what is all this for?
Speaker 3: Again?
Speaker 1: And because I prioritized everybody, and I took like timer,
Speaker 1: I went to Bali for like two months just by myself,
Speaker 1: and it was there then because there's a I had
Speaker 1: to literally see something different. My therapist calls it a
Speaker 1: corrective experience because we tell ourselves this is the way
Speaker 1: you live life. That you go to Bali and no
Speaker 1: one's living life that way. You know, they're eating food,
Speaker 1: they're taking walks, they're saying how they're you know, slowly
Speaker 1: going to the beach. And it was like, that is
Speaker 1: a version of life that's happening in New Jersey. But
Speaker 1: here's another version of life. This is a corrective experience.
Speaker 1: You can live life in this way. And then quite honestly,
Speaker 1: I had to burn it all down. That's an episode
Speaker 1: that you said when you came on earlier, and you
Speaker 1: said that that was the one that you were like
Speaker 1: because people were upset with me for burning it all
Speaker 1: down because they didn't see that if I did it,
Speaker 1: I would not be here, you know, yes, and so
Speaker 1: they did not know that, like I all that I
Speaker 1: had been doing to make sure everybody was okay if
Speaker 1: I didn't burn it down, that all it was for
Speaker 1: them was job loss. For me, it would have been
Speaker 1: life loss. And I was just like, so sorry about
Speaker 1: your job, but kind of want to live. So I'm
Speaker 1: just I don't know what just else to say, you know.
Speaker 1: And even after sharing that, there were still some people
Speaker 1: that there were like, yeah, but you know, you know, you know,
Speaker 1: I was depending on that money for dot dot dot
Speaker 1: dot dot, And it was really like, it's a different
Speaker 1: Tiffany now because I'm not nearly as nice as I was.
Speaker 1: I'm still kind, but now not nearly as nice as
Speaker 1: I was, because I realize how people will pick at
Speaker 1: the bones of your body and then walk over and
Speaker 1: then eat off somebody else and I'm not here for it.
Speaker 1: And so I'm still super kind, like you know, like
Speaker 1: that is a you know, but as far as nice,
Speaker 1: no like meaning that like the posturing, the I don't
Speaker 1: want people to think badly of me, the let me
Speaker 1: behave from this from this perspective or or point of view,
Speaker 1: so that way, on the outside everyone is like, Tiffany's
Speaker 1: a good person. No, whatever you think about me, that's
Speaker 1: your business. I know how I operate. I sleep very
Speaker 1: well at night. I don't mistreat people. I try my
Speaker 1: best to navigate from a place of fairness and integrity
Speaker 1: and in alignment with what I think is best for
Speaker 1: my people. You know, I don't take more than I
Speaker 1: than I give. And so however you perceive me as
Speaker 1: far as nicest or not, that that's not of my
Speaker 1: concern anymore. And so that's what I had to do.
Speaker 1: I had to burn it all down, and I had
Speaker 1: to like let the chips fall where they may. My
Speaker 1: biggest fear before it would always be what will they say?
Speaker 1: And I'm sure there are lots of people out there
Speaker 1: now who say, you know things about me that are
Speaker 1: not super flattering, and I don't care. Sorry, sist like
Speaker 1: I paid well for a very long time. You should
Speaker 1: save those coins when I was overpaying you to do underwork. Yeah, like,
Speaker 1: let's speak on it, because I promise you wherever you're
Speaker 1: working right now, you're not paying. They're not paying mode.
Speaker 1: I was paying because I was doing too much.
Speaker 3: Tiffany, Yes, So I would just tell you that I
Speaker 3: took many notes from that episode that you did, because, yeah,
Speaker 3: it's about community. You want people to have this different experience,
Speaker 3: you want to do something different, pay people X amount,
Speaker 3: what have you. And then it was this idea of yes,
Speaker 3: I still feel like, you know, we're going to be
Speaker 3: generous this way, but I'm not doing it for your approval.
Speaker 3: And this idea so we talked about one, you've got
Speaker 3: to have give your self permission to imagine something that's
Speaker 3: even possible, right, that you may not have ever even
Speaker 3: seen or experienced. Then you got to give yourself permission.
Speaker 3: The permission may actually come first to even give you
Speaker 3: yourself permission to imagine, right. And then this other part
Speaker 3: of this self worth that you're saying, which is it
Speaker 3: can't be anchored into what the world thinks for what
Speaker 3: other people think. So that idea of going back into
Speaker 3: who am I and what's my inspire self? Am I
Speaker 3: creating a castle between that my purpose and my inspire yourself?
Speaker 3: Or am I actually walking that? Because you're right that burnout.
Speaker 3: If we're doing this in terms of pleasing other people
Speaker 3: who were supposed to be always talk about it being
Speaker 3: their agenda, there's a point where we go away from
Speaker 3: their agenda to our agenda. That their agenda is you
Speaker 3: need to do this right. You need to go to
Speaker 3: this school, work at this place, be this kind of
Speaker 3: person in the community. Whatever that story of origin is
Speaker 3: for you, you got to dismandle it and like you said.
Speaker 1: Burn it down.
Speaker 3: What is my story and my how I defining success?
Speaker 3: What does it look like on my terms? And it
Speaker 3: takes a degree of courage and fearlessness to say it
Speaker 3: looks like something I ain't never seen anybody else do
Speaker 3: or anybody else say it was okay because I know
Speaker 3: that Mama now or whoever is going to be saying
Speaker 3: you need to keep that good job or you need
Speaker 3: to help them people, and you have to be okay
Speaker 3: creating a new story.
Speaker 1: You have to allow adults to adult. That's what I
Speaker 1: realized too. I said, girl, you ain't get birth and
Speaker 1: no nan chick a child. The only person I am
Speaker 1: I responsible for is my my my you know. I
Speaker 1: look after my nieces and my nephews and my my
Speaker 1: bonus daughter Lissa. And I'm like, these are adults, adults,
Speaker 1: not adults adults, you know, because sometimes I take so
Speaker 1: much responsibility for everybody's life that I'm like, that's YouTube,
Speaker 1: tak look at the beer says you step there. You
Speaker 1: decided that you you the boss to everybody, you know,
Speaker 1: And I'm just like, let grown people, grown people, you know.
Speaker 1: And so that was a huge one for me too.
Speaker 1: But like, I yeah, when she told me that my
Speaker 1: blood pressure was normal despite all of the shifts that
Speaker 1: are happening, and now share some of that stuff with Mandy,
Speaker 1: and I'm like, I'm just like I was so like, yes, yes,
Speaker 1: you are figuring it out, Tiffany. You are choosing, Tiffany.
Speaker 1: You know that you're allowing people to do what they
Speaker 1: need to do. You are still showing up, you know,
Speaker 1: in your purpose, and you are focusing on, yes, maintaining
Speaker 1: your kindness and integrity without this people pleasing niceness that
Speaker 1: you used to bring with you, because it's harmful to everyone,
Speaker 1: not just harmful to me, but honestly, it's harmful to
Speaker 1: people that was being nice to because it props them
Speaker 1: up for something that's unsustainable, you know. And so like
Speaker 1: it's just such an interesting space because that's the struggle.
Speaker 1: I feel like, this is why this this this conversation
Speaker 1: of how do we show up for ourselves while doing
Speaker 1: work good work for the community. It's such a hard
Speaker 1: conversation to have because you know, it's like what do
Speaker 1: we owe the larger community of black and brown folks
Speaker 1: and what do we owe ourselves? You know, It's I
Speaker 1: don't know any other race. I don't know because I'm
Speaker 1: only black, you know, But I'm like this, do other
Speaker 1: people carry so much of that heaviness of what we're
Speaker 1: supposed to do? Because Mandy and I struggle with that,
Speaker 1: right Like Amani's are our show producer? Because Mandy was like, no,
Speaker 1: I want a black show producer, you know, and it's
Speaker 1: just like, because like that's what I'm wanting. So it's like,
Speaker 1: how many of those types of pushes are ours to have,
Speaker 1: you know? Versus sometimes it's like I'm just tired.
Speaker 2: So I asked for our show. I didn't go out
Speaker 2: there and do a whole campaign for every podcast in
Speaker 2: America to get you know what I mean, I'm like,
Speaker 2: where can I bother? Someone? Iko? When you were when
Speaker 2: you were asking that question. The first thing I thought
Speaker 2: it was when I had my son. My wake up
Speaker 2: call was the intense postpartum anxiety, Like I needed to rest.
Speaker 2: Everyone tells you sleep when the baby's sleeping, but I
Speaker 2: couldn't because of the anxiety, and I couldn't shut my
Speaker 2: brain off. And you know, I credit coming up with
Speaker 2: Tiffany in a way, like Tiffany's like my big She's
Speaker 2: ten years ahead of me in so many ways. And
Speaker 2: I've gotten to absorb and I've listened to everything Tiffany
Speaker 2: I said. So when I was building my business these
Speaker 2: past couple of years, I made such great boundaries when
Speaker 2: it came to my time and my schedule and charging
Speaker 2: more so that I wouldn't have to work more, and
Speaker 2: you know, all these changes. The thing is, what I
Speaker 2: had to learn is other people haven't always been as
Speaker 2: as comfortable with the way I operate.
Speaker 1: And I'm going to.
Speaker 2: Put my husband on blast. He's very confused about how
Speaker 2: I can still be the breadwinner and take somebody naps
Speaker 2: during the week, and I feel a tiny bit of
Speaker 2: judgment even from him, when he finds he comes home
Speaker 2: early and I'm like taking my afternoon nap because that's
Speaker 2: what I do because I pick up that baby from
Speaker 2: daycare of four thirty and I want to be on.
Speaker 2: I want to be Times Square Lights on for him.
Speaker 2: Disney World mom fun Like, I want to give him
Speaker 2: my everything, and I have to give it to myself first,
Speaker 2: So I work between ten and two thirty usually for ICO,
Speaker 2: I show up okay at this time, but it's interesting.
Speaker 2: And even my mom, my mom, who like I know
Speaker 2: that the so many and my mom is white actually,
Speaker 2: and she is still like she can't sit still. Laura Jane,
Speaker 2: if you're listening to this, I know you listen to
Speaker 2: the show you hate when I talk about you, But
Speaker 2: the woman can't sit down. You never got to watch
Speaker 2: a movie with her because she'd be doing laundry and
Speaker 2: checking that and getting up and down. And I operate
Speaker 2: very differently, and even from her, I feel that, like
Speaker 2: nearly those dishes in the sink overnight, I'm like, yep,
Speaker 2: and I deserve to sleep. And she's not that kind
Speaker 2: of person. So if you're in a space where I'm
Speaker 2: just saying, like, if you're in a space where even
Speaker 2: other people close to you seem a little uncomfortable with
Speaker 2: the space you're giving yourself, that that has nothing to
Speaker 2: do with you, and I don't. I choose not to
Speaker 2: feel an ounce of guilt about doing what needs to
Speaker 2: be done for myself. So I keep my monthly massage,
Speaker 2: I take my naps. I still bring home the damn
Speaker 2: bacon and it's thick cut. It's not that cheap shit either.
Speaker 2: It's a good bacon. Like, I'm still bringing it home,
Speaker 2: and I'm trying not to sacrifice myself in the in
Speaker 2: the in the middle of it all. Talk to me
Speaker 2: in a year and maybe it'll be different, But I
Speaker 2: that was the biggest barrier, that was the biggest challenge
Speaker 2: for me, was like, wait, y'all don't necessarily want to
Speaker 2: support me in this, like you judge it a little
Speaker 2: bit because of issues that are not mine, and I
Speaker 2: can't carry that with me. And Alsola, yeah.
Speaker 3: Because it's family and origin one and sometimes the people
Speaker 3: who are right in our space because it's different to
Speaker 3: them and sometimes it makes them question their own way
Speaker 3: or how they're showing up and I'm glad that you
Speaker 3: also mentioned just also parenting or what have you, and
Speaker 3: even post I had post farms probably with like two years,
Speaker 3: but all that comes with that, and we just don't
Speaker 3: get that space to rest to understand, you know, what
Speaker 3: is going on with us, to be able to address it.
Speaker 3: I mean, Tiffy, I'm glad that you, you know, went
Speaker 3: to get medical, you know, help checking up seeing what's happening.
Speaker 3: I just had a call from a close girlfriend today
Speaker 3: about a man I'm pre diabetic. What is going on here?
Speaker 3: And there's so many of us, many of us don't
Speaker 3: even have a space to get to the doctor's appointment
Speaker 3: and think about ourselves unless we literally steal it and
Speaker 3: say I'm worth it and make it happen, because it
Speaker 3: is not one. We just are in a place where
Speaker 3: everybody works, right, that's your worth, What are you producing?
Speaker 3: What are you doing? And then to be a woman,
Speaker 3: and then to be a black or brown woman and
Speaker 3: be able to say I'm worth it and I deserve
Speaker 3: this and I need to do this for me, that's
Speaker 3: a whole other type of mental trip. To have to push.
Speaker 2: Back on our struggle is just so damn romanticized that's
Speaker 2: the thing. So what did you do to earn all this?
Speaker 2: You must have struggled, right, Yeah. I won't name names,
Speaker 2: but Tiff and I were on a call with a
Speaker 2: you know, a businessman, and one of the first things
Speaker 2: he said to kind of like was like, oh, well,
Speaker 2: you guys know I had a really tough upbringing, like
Speaker 2: almost like we also must have had one, and that's
Speaker 2: how he was going to connect with us, you know.
Speaker 2: And it just I still think about that commonversation and
Speaker 2: it's like, is that what you think? That's everyone's story
Speaker 2: that we must struggle. Yeah.
Speaker 1: A woman tell me the other day she was like, yeah,
Speaker 1: because you know, I grew up in the projects. I
Speaker 1: was like, oh that's nice. I didn't so anyway, Sis,
Speaker 1: what are you talking about? And I use the word
Speaker 1: cis so lightly if you would you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: I was just like, what is that? Even? That's how
Speaker 1: you got to connect with me? Like you're black, you
Speaker 1: must have grown up in the projects. And I'm just like,
Speaker 1: I mean, no, no, you know, but what is that even?
Speaker 1: I just I don't even know if people realize sometimes
Speaker 1: we just be so tidy'll sometimes like oh my goodness,
Speaker 1: it's so tired. I'm like, I mean literally, I had
Speaker 1: a woman the other day. I was like sitting in
Speaker 1: a chair. I was taping some show, and she was like,
Speaker 1: I thought she was doing my hair. She was petting it,
Speaker 1: and she even said, oh my god, I'm so sorry.
Speaker 1: I just love your hair. Don't mind me petting it.
Speaker 1: She uses the word pet and I pulled away to
Speaker 1: look at her, and I just was like, do you do.
Speaker 3: You like it's just like in a public class. No.
Speaker 1: I was doing a show, so I was getting my
Speaker 1: hair and makeup done, and so I was just like,
Speaker 1: you know, I thought, you know, I was like, okay,
Speaker 1: the makeup lady and I thought the hair lady was
Speaker 1: gonna but I was like I always come my hair
Speaker 1: done because what are you gonna do? You know? So
Speaker 1: I thought that she was just rearranging it, and I
Speaker 1: was like, this doesn't feel like that was just like
Speaker 1: so I looked at it was like, is everything okay?
Speaker 1: She was like, I just love your hair, don't mind me.
Speaker 1: I'm just petting it. And I just look like I
Speaker 1: just I'm like, h'all tied because I'm tired. I go,
Speaker 1: what do you do?
Speaker 3: Yes?
Speaker 1: What do you do?
Speaker 3: All the way rewind when you were saying, when some
Speaker 3: of your clients are saying, hey, but if I actually elevate,
Speaker 3: I have this razor thin space. And then there's you know,
Speaker 3: of course I'll hire you go the further you can fall.
Speaker 3: But there's also what's in that razor thin space. What
Speaker 3: are all the opportunities that are actually taken away from
Speaker 3: you to be humane? Because that's what that razor thin
Speaker 3: space is. So one you know, a certain way, talking
Speaker 3: a certain way, not being able to make mistakes, not
Speaker 3: being able to push back and ask certain questions, especially
Speaker 3: as a woman of color, not being able to hold boundaries.
Speaker 3: I mean, it's not just that it's a razor thin space.
Speaker 3: It's about what is all of the humanity, your humanity
Speaker 3: and opportunities is taking off the plate. You can't even
Speaker 3: have your hair a certain way without somebody wanting to
Speaker 3: touch it, or someone meaning what did you mean by that?
Speaker 3: Having to code twitch constantly. People don't understand the price
Speaker 3: behind that and even these other things. When you think
Speaker 3: about the experience of black people in the US, especially
Speaker 3: if you're thinking about deal, you know, to send us
Speaker 3: a slave, there is this rooted history of trauma and
Speaker 3: it is hard for someone to actually accept and think, oh, wait,
Speaker 3: you had a different experience than me, because I can't
Speaker 3: even imagine it, because what could that be like? And
Speaker 3: it's that idea of modeling that this is what it
Speaker 3: could be like, and this is what you have to do.
Speaker 3: Are the decisions we may have to make that are different,
Speaker 3: that could be unheard of. And I know that I
Speaker 3: have to do constant unlearning because of how I was
Speaker 3: raised in a low income household in Spartanburg, South Carolina,
Speaker 3: and what was normal is not what should be normal
Speaker 3: for everybody. But I have to constantly tell myself that
Speaker 3: instead of looking at other people's sideways of what you
Speaker 3: do such a time, or you know, diminishing somebody because
Speaker 3: they didn't have this experiences considered the black experience, instead
Speaker 3: of thinking, I'm not trying to rewrite that story for
Speaker 3: my kids. Are imposting on other people or make them
Speaker 3: feel less than because they didn't have it? But that
Speaker 3: takes so much awareness to have to do that, because
Speaker 3: in the moments I do have these moments aside out
Speaker 3: like wait what and I have to say, but we
Speaker 3: do I want somebody else like me to have had
Speaker 3: that experience I don't want you to have had that experience.
Speaker 3: I'm glad you did, and that means we're getting closer
Speaker 3: to having more spaces where all of us didn't have
Speaker 3: that trauma.
Speaker 1: This was such a nut much needed conversation. Honestly, I
Speaker 1: just want to thank you so much for coming on,
Speaker 1: for pulling out of us like what so many of
Speaker 1: us are thinking and feeling, which is this diversity inclusion.
Speaker 1: Work starts within to decide what is it that you're wanting.
Speaker 1: It really starts with you. It's not external work. You know.
Speaker 1: That's the biggest takeaway that I took away. That is
Speaker 1: truly internal work. And you work from that place. If
Speaker 1: you don't have to solve every problem and fix every issue,
Speaker 1: and you know that if you do that internal work,
Speaker 1: and if everybody did that, you know that's how we
Speaker 1: moved the needle forward. So we just want to thank
Speaker 1: you for coming, thank you.
Speaker 3: For having me. Tiffany and Mandy. I appreciate it, and I
Speaker 3: actually appreciate you all just modeling and speaking these things
Speaker 3: over and over because more of us need to hear it,
Speaker 3: more of us need to see people doing it and
Speaker 3: modeling it for us to even think it's possible to
Speaker 3: live a different way.
Speaker 2: Thank you, koh. Where do you want people to find you?
Speaker 2: Send them to your website? What are we plugging? Tell
Speaker 2: us everything?
Speaker 3: Thank you. So website is rare r A r E
Speaker 3: Coaching dot net or on LinkedIn I coopathea or on
Speaker 3: Instagram at where are a r E Underscore Coach.
Speaker 1: We will follow all of that in our social media,
Speaker 1: I mean our description show notes.
Speaker 3: So okay, thank you again. Thank you both for having
Speaker 3: me here and also for the work that you all
Speaker 3: do and the honesty. I really appreciate the honesty.
Speaker 1: That's what. If there's one thing we were here is honest.
Speaker 1: Someone who forget I'll be at the shop write and
Speaker 1: someone be like, girl, I heard you. I'm like I
Speaker 1: said an me.
Speaker 2: There public floor specialists the other day and I'm like, oh,
Speaker 2: I did talk about how I have a week bladder.
Speaker 1: Okay. So because me and Manny we're just usually just
Speaker 1: talking to each other in an honest way because we're friends,
Speaker 1: like you know, for real in real life, and so
Speaker 1: it allows us to be honest, and so people get
Speaker 1: like a peekin to like what that's what that's like?
Speaker 3: So thanks, so thank you again for lighting me.
Speaker 2: Thanks so much for making it happen. Ico, take care
Speaker 2: you head into the nap to nap now. Heyba fam,
Speaker 2: we could not do this show without your support or
Speaker 2: the support of our team behind the scenes. The Brown
Speaker 2: Emission Podcast is produced by Cumulus Podcast Network. It's edited
Speaker 2: by the wonderful Imani Crosby and produced by Tanya Bustos.
Speaker 2: Dennis Stimplinsky is our in house tech guru, and I
Speaker 2: am Bandy Woodard Santos, your co host, and I will
Speaker 2: see y'all next week.