WEBVTT - Takeaways from the 2022 U.S. Open 0:00:00.080 --> 0:00:02.520 I miss a green, for example, I'm already upset. 0:00:02.640 --> 0:00:04.920 When I find my ball in the bunker, I'm really upset. 0:00:05.000 --> 0:00:06.960 And when I find my ball in a fried egg 0:00:07.200 --> 0:00:07.960 Friday egg, the. 0:00:07.960 --> 0:00:11.080 Dreaded Frida Egg Friday, Frida Egg brid Egg, Frida Egg 0:00:11.160 --> 0:00:12.040 bride Egg Lie. 0:00:11.920 --> 0:00:14.080 I'm about ready to run off of the hump course. 0:00:37.000 --> 0:00:39.680 Hello and welcome to the Frida Egg Podcast. My name 0:00:39.760 --> 0:00:42.680 is Garrett Morrison, and today we have takeaways from the 0:00:42.680 --> 0:00:47.640 twenty twenty two US Open. So things got off to 0:00:47.680 --> 0:00:50.640 a pretty strange start early last week in Brookline. The 0:00:50.720 --> 0:00:52.800 chatter at the country club was all about the Saudi 0:00:52.840 --> 0:00:55.720 backed lived Off Invitational Series and the threat that it 0:00:55.800 --> 0:00:58.800 poses to the PGA Tour. The topic came up at 0:00:58.880 --> 0:01:01.960 almost every press conference and behind the scenes, it seemed 0:01:01.960 --> 0:01:04.000 to be the only thing people wanted to talk about. 0:01:04.600 --> 0:01:08.640 And that's understandable. It's a huge, air defining story, but 0:01:08.680 --> 0:01:10.800 I have to admit it was a bit of a 0:01:10.840 --> 0:01:13.560 relief when the golf started and we realized that we 0:01:13.640 --> 0:01:16.679 had a great tournament on our hands. The country club 0:01:16.760 --> 0:01:20.600 was demanding, but not sadistic. The conditions were blustery, but 0:01:20.920 --> 0:01:22.800 never to the point the play had to be stopped, 0:01:23.240 --> 0:01:26.039 and the proper golfers, the ones who show up when 0:01:26.080 --> 0:01:29.000 the course is tough and the wind is strong, rose 0:01:29.080 --> 0:01:33.800 above the fray. Rory McElroy, Colin Morricawa, John Rahm, and 0:01:33.840 --> 0:01:38.680 Scottie Scheffler quickly got themselves into contention, but late on Sunday, 0:01:38.959 --> 0:01:42.080 everyone's focus was on a duel between two less well 0:01:42.120 --> 0:01:45.520 known players. Will Zalatoris from San Francisco by way of 0:01:45.560 --> 0:01:49.720 Texas and Matt Fitzpatrick from England. Both have played well 0:01:49.760 --> 0:01:52.440 in recent majors. Fitzpatrick made it to the final pairing 0:01:52.440 --> 0:01:55.360 at this year's PGA Championship, and on the same day 0:01:55.560 --> 0:01:59.360 Xalatoris narrowly lost in a playoff, so it wasn't surprising 0:01:59.360 --> 0:02:01.560 to see the two of them trading blows down the 0:02:01.560 --> 0:02:05.440 stretch at the US Open. This time, Fitzpatrick was just 0:02:05.600 --> 0:02:08.680 slightly better. He arrived at the seventy second hole one 0:02:08.720 --> 0:02:11.840 stroke ahead of Xalatorus, and after pulling his drive into 0:02:11.880 --> 0:02:15.320 a fairway bunker, Fitzpatrick hit the shot of his life, 0:02:15.680 --> 0:02:18.360 a nine iron that he squeezed around the lip of 0:02:18.400 --> 0:02:20.720 the bunker and faded back to the middle of the green, 0:02:21.000 --> 0:02:23.880 eighteen feet from the pin. That is how you win 0:02:24.120 --> 0:02:28.160 a major championship. To discuss all of this and more, 0:02:28.280 --> 0:02:32.040 we have four guests today. We have Palo Ugetti, a 0:02:32.080 --> 0:02:34.360 staff writer at ESPN dot com, to sum up the 0:02:34.360 --> 0:02:37.359 big storylines of the week. We have Ryan Barrath of 0:02:37.440 --> 0:02:41.040 golf dot com to talk about Matt Fitzpatrick's recent gains 0:02:41.040 --> 0:02:44.160 and distance. And we have Bradley Klein, a journalist in 0:02:44.200 --> 0:02:47.400 golf architecture historian, and he'll say a few words about 0:02:47.440 --> 0:02:50.000 the course and the way it was set up. But 0:02:50.080 --> 0:02:51.840 first we're going to talk to a player who was 0:02:51.960 --> 0:02:55.320 actually in contention at the country club. I'm talking about 0:02:55.320 --> 0:02:58.280 the PGA Tour pro Nick Hardy. Nick has been on 0:02:58.320 --> 0:03:01.799 the Friday podcast twice before and has been on an 0:03:01.840 --> 0:03:04.720 absolute tear since coming back from a wrist injury about 0:03:04.760 --> 0:03:07.680 a month ago. Nick is truly one of the good guys, 0:03:07.760 --> 0:03:10.360 always fun to talk to, so we figured we'd start 0:03:10.440 --> 0:03:16.359 with his story. All Right, I am on the phone 0:03:16.600 --> 0:03:21.079 with Nick Hardy, who was t fourteen this week at Brookline. 0:03:21.280 --> 0:03:24.840 Great performance from Nick. He is currently in the car 0:03:25.040 --> 0:03:27.720 talking to me on the phone. So Nick, where are 0:03:27.720 --> 0:03:28.520 you headed right now? 0:03:29.120 --> 0:03:32.480 I'm headed to Hartford the next event at the Travelers 0:03:32.520 --> 0:03:33.280 so can't wait. 0:03:33.760 --> 0:03:35.720 Yeah, that's a cool event. Have you have you played 0:03:35.760 --> 0:03:36.680 in the Travelers before? 0:03:37.280 --> 0:03:37.600 I have. 0:03:38.440 --> 0:03:41.280 They gave me an exemption actually in twenty eighteen. It 0:03:41.400 --> 0:03:45.920 was my first PGA threwer started as a professional, So wow, yeah, 0:03:45.960 --> 0:03:49.160 definitely good, good memories and it's just a great event. 0:03:49.640 --> 0:03:50.520 I love this event. 0:03:51.280 --> 0:03:53.640 All right. So you know you had a great week 0:03:53.920 --> 0:03:56.640 at the country club, But why don't we start A 0:03:56.680 --> 0:04:00.840 couple of months ago you were dealing with a wrist injury, 0:04:01.920 --> 0:04:03.680 So maybe you just tell me a little bit about 0:04:03.680 --> 0:04:06.320 the issue that you were having and what made you 0:04:06.600 --> 0:04:08.840 ultimately decide to take some time off. 0:04:09.440 --> 0:04:09.680 Yeah. 0:04:09.720 --> 0:04:14.000 So I heard my wrist in Louisiana at the Zurich Classic. 0:04:14.720 --> 0:04:16.640 It was a week where I really actually felt like 0:04:16.680 --> 0:04:20.719 my game was turning around. Finally, I told my fiance 0:04:20.920 --> 0:04:23.719 Liz on the drive to the Sunday round at the 0:04:23.760 --> 0:04:26.839 course and like, no matter what happened today, I'm very 0:04:26.839 --> 0:04:29.800 happy with where my game's headed and the direction I 0:04:29.839 --> 0:04:32.120 feel with my game, and I'm just excited. And then 0:04:32.160 --> 0:04:34.960 that day I heard my wrist and I was diagnosed. 0:04:35.040 --> 0:04:38.279 I was like out for a month. So now looking 0:04:38.320 --> 0:04:42.000 back on it, that risk injury is a blessing in disguise, 0:04:42.320 --> 0:04:46.120 and I think it really just helped settle my thoughts. 0:04:46.480 --> 0:04:48.400 I just stopped thinking about golf for a couple of 0:04:48.440 --> 0:04:53.640 weeks at least, and it gave me clarity, I think 0:04:53.680 --> 0:04:56.799 in the game. Again, among other things that I changed 0:04:56.800 --> 0:05:00.760 in my lifestyle kind of I made some tweaks to 0:05:01.080 --> 0:05:03.640 help maybe help my better my life as well, just 0:05:04.000 --> 0:05:08.080 outside of golf. So just among those certain things of 0:05:08.120 --> 0:05:10.240 how it happened and how it transpired, it all kind 0:05:10.240 --> 0:05:12.560 of helped towards my comeback. 0:05:13.760 --> 0:05:15.480 So, if you don't mind talking about it, what were 0:05:15.520 --> 0:05:18.760 some of the adjustments that you made to your routine 0:05:18.960 --> 0:05:20.760 or your kind of approach to the day to day. 0:05:21.640 --> 0:05:24.919 Yeah, you know, alongside with clearing my mind with you 0:05:24.920 --> 0:05:28.039 know kind of maybe some negative thoughts and some just 0:05:28.560 --> 0:05:33.920 overtrying complicating, especially with certain areas of my game, I 0:05:34.160 --> 0:05:37.120 kind of lost my confidence really my putting mainly for 0:05:37.160 --> 0:05:39.400 a while there, and it really affected the rest of 0:05:39.400 --> 0:05:42.960 my game, and so that just you know, flowed down 0:05:43.000 --> 0:05:45.599 my thoughts. I had a really good putting week at Zurich, 0:05:45.800 --> 0:05:47.880 but I know I got hurt and then really all 0:05:47.920 --> 0:05:50.279 I could do after a couple of weeks on the 0:05:50.279 --> 0:05:54.560 shell was putt. So I practiced my putting a lot 0:05:54.680 --> 0:05:56.320 for a couple of weeks when I couldn't even hit 0:05:56.320 --> 0:05:59.880 a ball, So that putting in the time there helped 0:06:00.400 --> 0:06:04.880 for that helps solve that. But I also started using 0:06:04.880 --> 0:06:08.839 a Neuropeak pro and Intel belt and that was crucial 0:06:08.880 --> 0:06:12.240 for me. I did practice my breathing two times a day, 0:06:13.440 --> 0:06:15.800 and it you know, it's really a score system that 0:06:15.960 --> 0:06:18.680 scores you and how well you're doing really just how 0:06:18.680 --> 0:06:22.159 your heart is connected to your breathing, and so that 0:06:22.240 --> 0:06:26.760 helps a lot. I started taking daily magnesium supplements. That's 0:06:26.800 --> 0:06:31.239 really helped me just everyday life kind of relax and chill, 0:06:31.440 --> 0:06:34.479 and I think that that's helped a lot too. And 0:06:34.520 --> 0:06:37.599 then when I came back from injury with my wrists 0:06:37.600 --> 0:06:40.279 and started hitting balls, I noticed that in order to 0:06:40.320 --> 0:06:42.640 protect my wrist, I had to swing a certain way 0:06:43.560 --> 0:06:45.960 when I came back for that first Glenn Club event 0:06:46.200 --> 0:06:49.520 on the corn Ferry Tour, and that that way I 0:06:49.600 --> 0:06:53.120 was swinging really helped me control my spin and distance 0:06:53.160 --> 0:06:56.120 better with my long irons or and now with my 0:06:56.120 --> 0:06:59.839 long irons my short irons, and so I was very 0:07:01.160 --> 0:07:04.760 surprise because wow, I was like wow, like the things 0:07:04.800 --> 0:07:06.280 I kind of need to work on my swing are 0:07:06.320 --> 0:07:09.159 really helpful for coming back with this injury and trying 0:07:09.160 --> 0:07:11.440 to maintain not hurt this injury. 0:07:11.520 --> 0:07:12.960 So interesting all. 0:07:12.800 --> 0:07:14.640 Of that kind of added together. I can get into 0:07:14.720 --> 0:07:16.720 more detail if you'd like about the kind of the 0:07:17.000 --> 0:07:19.080 feelings in my swing that helps go. 0:07:19.120 --> 0:07:22.280 That way, if you want, Well, I'm curious. You know, 0:07:22.320 --> 0:07:24.280 we don't need to get too deep into the weeds. 0:07:24.320 --> 0:07:27.400 But it sounds like, was it just that you weren't 0:07:27.480 --> 0:07:30.000 using your wrist to save your swing anymore? You kind 0:07:30.040 --> 0:07:32.920 to kind of keep it stable in order to prevent injury. 0:07:33.520 --> 0:07:35.560 Yeah, So it was my left wrist that I heard. 0:07:35.640 --> 0:07:37.520 And in my swing sometimes I just get a little 0:07:37.640 --> 0:07:40.240 narrow and I pulled down and my my golf swing, 0:07:40.960 --> 0:07:43.880 and it causes me to kind of lose space and 0:07:44.600 --> 0:07:47.600 effectively just kind of pinch the ball and hit high 0:07:47.600 --> 0:07:52.000 spinners that kind of don't don't aren't very good trajectory. 0:07:52.200 --> 0:07:54.920 So it forced me to use my body more and 0:07:55.200 --> 0:07:58.520 be softer in my in my lower body to start 0:07:58.600 --> 0:08:01.960 my transition and then all also slower with my upper 0:08:01.960 --> 0:08:05.520 body pulling, and so that kept me wide and that 0:08:05.600 --> 0:08:07.880 kept me hitting you know, nine irons. Able to hit 0:08:07.960 --> 0:08:12.120 nine irons, pitching wedge just low and off speed better. 0:08:12.560 --> 0:08:14.240 And it's something I've always worked on, but it was 0:08:14.320 --> 0:08:16.679 just it just kind of made me realize, Wow, yeah, 0:08:16.720 --> 0:08:18.800 like this is the way I need to swing all 0:08:18.840 --> 0:08:19.280 the time. 0:08:20.360 --> 0:08:20.600 Yeah. 0:08:20.640 --> 0:08:23.880 Well it's interesting, you know. I mean, if people have 0:08:24.000 --> 0:08:26.560 listened to your past podcasts with Andy, You've been on 0:08:26.600 --> 0:08:29.520 the Frida Egg podcast twice before, they know that you're 0:08:29.520 --> 0:08:32.920 a golf nut. You know, you play a lot of golf, 0:08:33.160 --> 0:08:36.040 You're really into. It was taking some of the time 0:08:36.120 --> 0:08:39.840 off just sort of helpful from that person, from just 0:08:39.880 --> 0:08:43.600 like removing yourself from the usual like all golf all 0:08:43.640 --> 0:08:46.640 the time routine and just doing something else for a while. 0:08:47.200 --> 0:08:49.920 Absolutely, I mean that on top of it was probably 0:08:49.920 --> 0:08:52.520 that was the biggest beneficial thing it did for me, 0:08:52.559 --> 0:08:55.160 because as we all know, golf is such a mental game, 0:08:55.880 --> 0:08:59.920 and I think I caught myself just spinning my wheels 0:09:00.080 --> 0:09:02.400 for a few at leates a few months, especially the 0:09:02.440 --> 0:09:05.680 first just ever since January, I'd say, just spinning my 0:09:05.720 --> 0:09:09.959 wheels and trying really hard. And you know, every night 0:09:10.000 --> 0:09:11.800 you go to bed, you just wake up the next day. 0:09:11.800 --> 0:09:13.680 I want to wake up the next day and like Okay, 0:09:13.679 --> 0:09:16.360 this is what I gotta do to figure this out. Really, 0:09:16.400 --> 0:09:19.040 it just made me take a step back and just 0:09:19.120 --> 0:09:21.000 lose sight of the game for a couple of weeks. 0:09:21.679 --> 0:09:24.880 And when I came back, all my thoughts were clear again, 0:09:25.040 --> 0:09:27.200 and I'm not spinning my wheels now. I'm able to 0:09:27.440 --> 0:09:29.800 hit the ground running and really just move with it. 0:09:30.400 --> 0:09:32.640 And that was the biggest thing. I just taught me 0:09:32.679 --> 0:09:36.080 a lot of lessons on perspective, taught me how far 0:09:36.120 --> 0:09:38.720 I've come in the game, that I've really put in 0:09:38.760 --> 0:09:42.240 the hard yards, and I've earned myself the right to 0:09:42.280 --> 0:09:45.880 just believe in myself and I'm not gonna get off. 0:09:46.200 --> 0:09:48.120 I can take a few days off and look, I 0:09:48.240 --> 0:09:50.880 proved to myself, I could take thirty days off, come 0:09:50.920 --> 0:09:54.840 back and almost win a tournament like I am. I'm 0:09:54.840 --> 0:09:57.439 not gonna lose my fields. I'm not gonna start getting 0:09:57.440 --> 0:09:59.280 in bad habits if I just take time off. 0:10:00.400 --> 0:10:02.559 Yeah, you've paid your dues already. You don't need to 0:10:02.640 --> 0:10:05.640 keep paying them every day, all the time, exactly. 0:10:05.640 --> 0:10:08.120 And that's how I operated really in high school and 0:10:08.160 --> 0:10:11.240 college a ton, because I actually did need to keep 0:10:11.240 --> 0:10:14.120 those going, because I just my fundamentals weren't as good, 0:10:14.160 --> 0:10:16.360 but now I realize how good my fundamentals are. And 0:10:16.840 --> 0:10:19.200 it taught me, hey, like you can relax a little 0:10:19.240 --> 0:10:21.560 bit when you get off the golf course, we're not 0:10:21.640 --> 0:10:24.800 thinking about golf one bit, or just totally detached and 0:10:25.320 --> 0:10:28.160 really enjoying my time with my fiance or thinking about 0:10:28.160 --> 0:10:31.040 my family more, or just being away from the game. 0:10:31.480 --> 0:10:34.240 When you're away from the game is so important. And 0:10:34.640 --> 0:10:36.960 I feel like over the course of the last three 0:10:36.960 --> 0:10:39.319 tournaments that since I've come back, it's really shown that. 0:10:40.120 --> 0:10:43.080 Yeah, for sure. All right, So it wasn't too long 0:10:43.160 --> 0:10:48.160 after coming back that you entered the US Open qualifier, 0:10:48.679 --> 0:10:52.560 So just quickly tell me about that day and what 0:10:52.640 --> 0:10:54.760 it was like, you know, qualifying for the tournament. 0:10:55.600 --> 0:10:58.319 Yeah, it was. It was crazy to day. I played 0:10:58.480 --> 0:11:02.120 the thirty six hole qualifier and I played the first 0:11:02.240 --> 0:11:06.720 i'd say twenty five holes really well. The last eleven 0:11:06.760 --> 0:11:09.280 holes I finished very poorly. I finished three over with 0:11:09.400 --> 0:11:12.400 no birdies in the last eleven holes, and it was 0:11:12.520 --> 0:11:16.040 really disappointing finish. And I finished just outside the top 0:11:16.120 --> 0:11:20.400 eight qualifiers and it tied for ninth. So I was 0:11:20.400 --> 0:11:23.720 in a five man playoff just for first alternate, and 0:11:23.760 --> 0:11:25.920 it ended up going five holes. So I played forty 0:11:25.920 --> 0:11:27.680 one holes that day. I got to the golf course 0:11:27.679 --> 0:11:29.839 at six am and left the course at eight forty 0:11:29.880 --> 0:11:31.160 five pm. 0:11:32.120 --> 0:11:35.920 God all right, well, so tell me about the playoff. 0:11:35.960 --> 0:11:36.559 How did that go? 0:11:37.240 --> 0:11:41.000 It was a wild all five minutes, had thirty looks. 0:11:41.040 --> 0:11:43.640 On the first hole, no one made their putt, and 0:11:43.679 --> 0:11:46.000 then we went on to the next hole. It was 0:11:46.040 --> 0:11:48.959 the short part. Four We all had wedges. I hit 0:11:49.000 --> 0:11:52.920 the closest to about seat, everyone else had around fifteen 0:11:52.960 --> 0:11:55.160 feet and the only person that make their part was 0:11:55.200 --> 0:11:58.360 Jim Herman. So I knew, I knew I had to 0:11:58.400 --> 0:12:00.559 make it, but either way I was going to continue 0:12:00.559 --> 0:12:02.400 in a playoff for second aulder, so I had to 0:12:02.400 --> 0:12:04.079 make it in order to get first ault. It made 0:12:04.120 --> 0:12:07.240 the putt one of the twelve. Twelve to thirteen are 0:12:07.280 --> 0:12:09.839 the hardest souls of the course. Twelve I made about 0:12:09.840 --> 0:12:13.600 a five foot slider to extend, and then on thirteen 0:12:14.520 --> 0:12:17.720 I made a twelve footer that broke about five feet 0:12:18.200 --> 0:12:21.640 to extend, and Jim made a putt from like five 0:12:21.720 --> 0:12:25.160 six feet to extend after my made by putt. And 0:12:25.200 --> 0:12:28.840 then on the fourteenth hole it was pitch black, almost 0:12:28.840 --> 0:12:30.439 pitch black you can barely see. I knew it was 0:12:30.480 --> 0:12:33.120 going to be our last hole and I hit a 0:12:33.160 --> 0:12:35.839 wedgend there to about eight feet. Jim hit it to 0:12:35.880 --> 0:12:39.120 about eighteen feet. Jim missed it, and I made it, 0:12:39.200 --> 0:12:40.320 and that that's what did it. 0:12:41.160 --> 0:12:41.480 Wow. 0:12:42.040 --> 0:12:45.600 And just to give context for people, Jim Herman is 0:12:45.640 --> 0:12:48.600 a two time PGA Tour winner, maybe a three time 0:12:48.640 --> 0:12:51.360 PGA Tour winner, not exactly sure off the top of 0:12:51.400 --> 0:12:54.000 my head, but this guy's a player. So it was 0:12:54.120 --> 0:12:59.040 you versus him for that first alternate spot. You So 0:12:59.120 --> 0:13:01.920 you were first alternate And at what point did you 0:13:02.000 --> 0:13:03.400 know you were in the tournament? 0:13:04.520 --> 0:13:04.640 Uh? 0:13:04.880 --> 0:13:07.960 Friday night. So I was like technically the last official 0:13:08.000 --> 0:13:10.440 man in the field before the official field came out. 0:13:11.840 --> 0:13:15.400 So I think I was second or third overall first, 0:13:15.480 --> 0:13:18.720 you know, first alternate, So among all the all the 0:13:19.200 --> 0:13:22.120 qualifying sites, I was, I think second or third. I 0:13:22.120 --> 0:13:25.240 think Tiger pulled out, pull A, Katy pulled out, and 0:13:25.280 --> 0:13:28.360 then I got I got a spot because there was 0:13:28.400 --> 0:13:32.600 a couple of different exemption categories for a winner in 0:13:32.240 --> 0:13:35.200 Canada that didn't win, So that's why I got in 0:13:35.280 --> 0:13:35.839 Friday night. 0:13:36.520 --> 0:13:40.920 Gotcha all right? So you're at the country club first 0:13:41.000 --> 0:13:45.120 two rounds, you shot sixty nine sixty eight, which are 0:13:45.400 --> 0:13:50.160 some incredible US Open rounds. What were you doing well 0:13:50.160 --> 0:13:51.439 on those days? 0:13:51.720 --> 0:13:55.680 Yeah? I was really managing my mind and managing my 0:13:55.800 --> 0:13:59.760 patients and managing all the you know, surrounding things around 0:13:59.800 --> 0:14:04.000 me really well. I was highly focused. I drove the 0:14:04.040 --> 0:14:07.360 ball well the first two rounds, and I just missed 0:14:07.360 --> 0:14:10.080 in the right spot, and that's that was the key. 0:14:10.120 --> 0:14:12.240 I didn't make a lot of mistakes. I think I 0:14:12.240 --> 0:14:14.920 only made I don't know, maybe six birdies. But I 0:14:15.360 --> 0:14:18.560 made very few mistakes as well, So it was just 0:14:18.559 --> 0:14:21.240 a solid couple of days. I was definitely in the 0:14:21.280 --> 0:14:23.080 harder wave too, so I was pretty proud of the 0:14:23.080 --> 0:14:24.600 way I played the first two rounds. 0:14:25.000 --> 0:14:28.840 Mm hmmm. Is this your Was this your fourth US Open? 0:14:28.920 --> 0:14:29.720 Am I right about that? 0:14:30.360 --> 0:14:31.040 Yeah? 0:14:31.120 --> 0:14:34.920 Okay, So obviously you have some experience with this tournament. 0:14:35.680 --> 0:14:38.600 What have you learned from past US Opens that you 0:14:38.640 --> 0:14:42.080 were applying on those during those first couple of rounds. 0:14:42.520 --> 0:14:46.640 Yeah. I learned the value of patients, obviously, and I 0:14:46.760 --> 0:14:49.600 learned that when you get rhythmic shots, when you get 0:14:49.720 --> 0:14:53.520 opportunities to get in a rhythm, you take it. Because 0:14:53.720 --> 0:14:56.400 the US Open it's just utter chaos when you're playing. 0:14:56.440 --> 0:14:59.640 Sometimes it's just you're you know, it's hard to get 0:14:59.680 --> 0:15:02.440 it's hard to hit string three four five six fairways 0:15:02.440 --> 0:15:04.680 in a row. It's hard to string three four five 0:15:04.720 --> 0:15:07.440 six greens hit in a row. So what I mean 0:15:07.440 --> 0:15:10.800 by that is like, if there's times where you know, 0:15:10.840 --> 0:15:13.120 you don't want to be over aggressive on the first rounds, 0:15:13.200 --> 0:15:14.400 you just want to kind of get the ball in 0:15:14.400 --> 0:15:18.280 the fairway, give yourself some kind of string, some momentum along. 0:15:18.400 --> 0:15:20.480 So that's that's kind of what I've learned in the 0:15:20.560 --> 0:15:22.680 US Opens and how to play and how to go 0:15:22.760 --> 0:15:24.200 about it. That was key. 0:15:25.440 --> 0:15:28.000 So you were t eight going into the third round. 0:15:28.520 --> 0:15:31.960 What did it feel like to be in contention at 0:15:31.960 --> 0:15:35.400 a tournament this big? I mean, you've been in some 0:15:35.440 --> 0:15:37.840 big spots before, You've been in some pressure spots, but 0:15:37.880 --> 0:15:39.880 I think this was sort of new territory for you, 0:15:40.720 --> 0:15:41.640 very new territory. 0:15:41.680 --> 0:15:43.600 I was, you know, in contention of a major in 0:15:43.600 --> 0:15:46.400 a week, and I've never done that before. But I 0:15:46.520 --> 0:15:49.840 was weirdly relaxed, and I felt very prepared, and I 0:15:50.760 --> 0:15:54.200 believe in myself was very high. So I just felt 0:15:54.200 --> 0:15:57.520 like I'd manifested this for a long time, and I 0:15:57.560 --> 0:16:00.280 think that's what really helps me. The third round was 0:16:00.320 --> 0:16:04.200 incredibly difficult because of the conditions and the golf course 0:16:04.280 --> 0:16:07.400 changed so much as I played Friday morning. It was 0:16:07.480 --> 0:16:10.240 tough for me to get adjusted to that. But I 0:16:10.320 --> 0:16:14.120 actually played pretty well all things, considering the front nine 0:16:14.200 --> 0:16:17.000 and getting adjusted to that and just the crowd and 0:16:17.400 --> 0:16:20.400 the whole experience it was. I was proud of myself 0:16:20.400 --> 0:16:23.000 for that. I definitely think I came out much more 0:16:23.040 --> 0:16:26.920 ready to play Sunday because of Saturday's experience. 0:16:27.520 --> 0:16:30.560 Right. Well, So going back to step for a second, 0:16:30.640 --> 0:16:33.160 I think that something that people need to recognize about 0:16:33.160 --> 0:16:35.720 your first two rounds, the sixty nine and the sixty eight, 0:16:36.200 --> 0:16:39.480 is that you played late early, right. You were in 0:16:39.600 --> 0:16:43.760 the afternoon wave on Thursday and the morning wave on Friday, 0:16:44.200 --> 0:16:47.120 which turned out to be the more difficult draw. I 0:16:47.160 --> 0:16:49.760 believe it was about a two stroke difference, Like it 0:16:49.800 --> 0:16:52.760 was two strokes harder to play when you played, but 0:16:52.880 --> 0:16:55.440 you still fired those rounds, which is which is pretty cool. 0:16:55.920 --> 0:16:59.520 So Saturday, you mentioned the course was different, the conditions 0:16:59.520 --> 0:17:02.280 were different, and tell me about how much more difficult 0:17:02.320 --> 0:17:03.520 the course was that day. 0:17:04.520 --> 0:17:08.520 Yeah, the greens were extremely firm, and that also makes 0:17:08.520 --> 0:17:10.720 some harder pot because they get a little last year, 0:17:11.640 --> 0:17:15.600 they may get a little less true to Pott, and 0:17:15.880 --> 0:17:18.720 just chipping on the greens is super tough. And predicting 0:17:18.760 --> 0:17:22.640 how it's gonna bounce, that's really just the toughest part 0:17:22.720 --> 0:17:25.800 is the scoring part. So you got to go in 0:17:25.880 --> 0:17:28.920 not really expecting to make many birdies. But I guess 0:17:28.920 --> 0:17:31.199 said earlier, I learned that you got to get some 0:17:31.359 --> 0:17:33.520 rhythm going and the best you can try to string 0:17:33.600 --> 0:17:35.640 along some shots where you can kind of get into 0:17:35.680 --> 0:17:39.760 momentum in a groove. And it's really hard to do that, 0:17:40.600 --> 0:17:45.080 especially Thursday or sorry, Saturday's round it being that windy, 0:17:45.440 --> 0:17:49.199 and especially the wind direction changed. That wind direction was 0:17:49.200 --> 0:17:52.280 probably the hardest direction that we played. 0:17:52.760 --> 0:17:56.640 Yeah, it was coming out of the north, it was cold. Yeah, 0:17:56.680 --> 0:17:58.959 it was just a tough day. You ended up shooting 0:17:59.000 --> 0:18:02.080 seventy three. I believe in that round you had a 0:18:02.119 --> 0:18:06.000 triple bogie, and so a portion of that seventy three 0:18:06.160 --> 0:18:08.639 is is certainly due to that just that one hole, 0:18:08.680 --> 0:18:09.200 I suppose. 0:18:09.920 --> 0:18:13.040 Yeah, that triple bogue is really unfortunate. I had a 0:18:13.080 --> 0:18:16.200 great shot too, and I just hit the back of 0:18:16.240 --> 0:18:19.880 the green and bounce in the festuo grass right against 0:18:19.880 --> 0:18:23.919 the big rock wall, so I had no shot and 0:18:24.000 --> 0:18:25.920 I hit it was you know, it was unfortunate because 0:18:25.960 --> 0:18:28.000 I actually hit such a good shot to get there, 0:18:28.600 --> 0:18:31.960 but my only option was taking up playable about fifty 0:18:32.040 --> 0:18:36.679 yards further back towards the tea box, and I hit 0:18:36.720 --> 0:18:40.760 a very poor recovery four shot that landed short of 0:18:40.760 --> 0:18:43.560 the green and the rough, and I hit that on 0:18:43.600 --> 0:18:45.640 a two putted for a triple. So it was really 0:18:45.720 --> 0:18:47.600 unfortunate because I walked away with the whole feeling like 0:18:47.640 --> 0:18:50.160 I didn't really hit any poor shots to get there 0:18:50.320 --> 0:18:52.600 that triple bogue. But that's what can happen to us open. 0:18:53.520 --> 0:18:56.720 You get a little off with the club decision, Like 0:18:56.760 --> 0:19:00.320 I missed one club decision and it cost me three shots, 0:19:00.920 --> 0:19:02.920 so that that was very unfortunate, But I was really 0:19:02.920 --> 0:19:04.639 proud of the way I came back after that and 0:19:04.640 --> 0:19:06.080 buried the next two holes. 0:19:06.400 --> 0:19:08.680 You did, Yeah, So that was on the thirteenth hole, 0:19:09.600 --> 0:19:13.880 obviously a tough part four that's not played normally by members. 0:19:13.920 --> 0:19:16.959 You know, you're playing two holes in one there and 0:19:16.960 --> 0:19:19.199 a kind of a classic country club punishment there. You 0:19:19.240 --> 0:19:21.560 missed the green and all of a sudden you're infescue 0:19:21.600 --> 0:19:24.639 and rocks. You know, that's that's sort of what that 0:19:24.680 --> 0:19:29.440 place delivers. But in any case, going on to Sunday, 0:19:30.600 --> 0:19:32.600 just take me through the early part of year round. 0:19:32.920 --> 0:19:34.000 You started pretty hot. 0:19:34.800 --> 0:19:37.600 Yeah, No, I started hot with the putter. That was key. 0:19:37.680 --> 0:19:41.399 I had two solid shots in the first hole. Was 0:19:41.440 --> 0:19:44.360 definitely feeling the nerves. But once I you know, made 0:19:44.640 --> 0:19:46.960 a nice part of the first soul that settled me down. 0:19:47.000 --> 0:19:49.240 And hit a great shot into two that went over 0:19:49.280 --> 0:19:51.200 the green, hit a great chip out of the fescu 0:19:51.280 --> 0:19:54.000 grass next to the bunker, who was a terrible lie 0:19:54.040 --> 0:19:56.160 and just did good to get it too about eight 0:19:56.240 --> 0:19:58.879 ten feet. I made that putt and then I got 0:19:58.920 --> 0:20:00.760 a great another grade up in down on the third 0:20:00.800 --> 0:20:04.240 goal out of the bunker, made another nice little twelve 0:20:04.280 --> 0:20:07.680 fourteen footer for par and then I hit a nice 0:20:07.680 --> 0:20:10.119 shot out of the Rufio number four and made another 0:20:10.200 --> 0:20:12.719 about fifteen footer for Bertie, and then made another fifteen 0:20:12.760 --> 0:20:15.800 footer on five for Bertie, and then made another fifteen 0:20:15.840 --> 0:20:18.600 putter on number six for par So. I was feeling 0:20:18.640 --> 0:20:20.760 it with the putter. I did look up at the 0:20:20.840 --> 0:20:22.880 leaderboard after number five and I was like, oh wow, 0:20:23.240 --> 0:20:26.600 two shots back, so I knew I kept playing the 0:20:26.640 --> 0:20:28.920 way I was playing, it could really go my way. 0:20:29.080 --> 0:20:31.800 I don't think I was like the moment was definitely 0:20:31.840 --> 0:20:34.320 not too big for me. It's just the US Open 0:20:34.400 --> 0:20:37.760 really was expose any sort of thing in your game 0:20:37.880 --> 0:20:40.760 that may not be the best, and I didn't drive 0:20:40.800 --> 0:20:44.040 at my best over the weekend. I kind of mishit 0:20:44.040 --> 0:20:46.679 a t shot at number eight. It left me in 0:20:46.760 --> 0:20:48.680 the first cut in the left side, and I kind 0:20:48.680 --> 0:20:50.560 of didn't have an angle to go for it, and 0:20:50.640 --> 0:20:53.520 I wish I was a little more aggressive there. I 0:20:53.600 --> 0:20:56.440 laid up way too far back and I could have 0:20:56.520 --> 0:20:59.200 hit three with much closer to the green or even 0:20:59.240 --> 0:21:01.879 I was considering driver off the deck. But that was 0:21:01.960 --> 0:21:04.119 a gutsy shot. But you just got to play that 0:21:04.160 --> 0:21:06.119 whole smart and I did in a good eight iron 0:21:06.119 --> 0:21:07.800 into that green. I just kind of hit it a 0:21:07.800 --> 0:21:10.080 little too far right and you came back down the slope, 0:21:10.160 --> 0:21:12.239 so and then I hit it over the green and 0:21:12.359 --> 0:21:14.439 missed about an eight foot or from bogie. So it 0:21:14.560 --> 0:21:17.679 was definitely a tough hole. I'm definitely bummed about the 0:21:17.680 --> 0:21:21.159 eighth hole. That's where things willmentum change and then you 0:21:21.280 --> 0:21:23.600 got a tough stretch of holes after that. Nine, two 0:21:23.720 --> 0:21:28.000 thirteen are very very tough hole. So yeah, you know, 0:21:28.200 --> 0:21:30.320 the rest of the day, I'm not very pleased with 0:21:30.359 --> 0:21:33.359 how it turned out. Walked away feeling a little uh 0:21:34.000 --> 0:21:36.440 snake bitten about the rest how it went the rest 0:21:36.480 --> 0:21:39.760 of the day, But it was super super good experience 0:21:39.760 --> 0:21:40.000 for me. 0:21:41.200 --> 0:21:44.040 So just overall, what do you think you're gonna take 0:21:44.040 --> 0:21:47.679 away from this experience and carry into tournaments like like 0:21:47.720 --> 0:21:48.760 the Travelers this week. 0:21:49.359 --> 0:21:53.720 Yes, my focus and the simple to no thought, especially 0:21:53.720 --> 0:21:56.520 when I'm away from the game, away from the course, 0:21:57.040 --> 0:22:00.159 my focus level and how strong my mind is. I'm 0:22:00.240 --> 0:22:01.880 very proud of the way that I've come back from 0:22:01.880 --> 0:22:05.879 this injury, and I think I've just shown my capability 0:22:06.640 --> 0:22:09.080 of playing out against the best players in the world 0:22:09.160 --> 0:22:12.000 so far, and I believe I can win. And I 0:22:12.040 --> 0:22:14.879 think if I keep putting myself in chances like that 0:22:15.040 --> 0:22:19.000 to win on Saturday and Sunday, I've walked away from 0:22:19.040 --> 0:22:22.000 my last three events on Sunday feeling very i would 0:22:22.040 --> 0:22:24.880 say slighted, not very happy with the way things finished. 0:22:24.880 --> 0:22:28.280 So I think if I keep staying patient, I'll walk 0:22:28.320 --> 0:22:30.640 away from one of these Sundays, either with a trophy 0:22:30.760 --> 0:22:33.960 or just very proud and happy the way I finish. 0:22:34.040 --> 0:22:36.000 All Right, Nick, it's always fun to have you on 0:22:36.040 --> 0:22:38.600 the podcast. Thank you so much for taking the time. 0:22:38.800 --> 0:22:42.360 Congratulations on a great performance this week, and good luck 0:22:42.359 --> 0:22:43.080 going forward. Man. 0:22:43.640 --> 0:22:44.919 Thank you very much, thank you. 0:22:47.440 --> 0:22:49.800 This episode of the Friday Podcast is brought to you 0:22:49.880 --> 0:22:53.720 by Golf Blueprint. So golf season is fully here and 0:22:53.800 --> 0:22:56.480 it's a great time to focus on improving your game. 0:22:56.920 --> 0:22:59.520 There's no better way to do that than concentrated and 0:22:59.600 --> 0:23:03.679 intense practice. 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Next up is my interview with 0:24:12.040 --> 0:24:15.520 Palo Ugetti. Palo is a staff writer at ESPN dot 0:24:15.520 --> 0:24:19.119 com and he mainly covers college football. He also used 0:24:19.160 --> 0:24:21.679 to write about the NBA for The Ringer, but lately 0:24:21.720 --> 0:24:24.879 he started reporting more and more on golf, and he 0:24:24.960 --> 0:24:27.600 was on site in Brookline all this week. So let's 0:24:27.640 --> 0:24:28.520 see what he has to say. 0:24:29.320 --> 0:24:32.560 Yeah, it's funny, you know, I never expected golf to 0:24:32.560 --> 0:24:34.200 be part of my coverage when I took this job 0:24:34.200 --> 0:24:37.080 at ESPN. But given that the golf the gollege football 0:24:37.080 --> 0:24:40.680 season is so short and there's a long offseason. It 0:24:40.760 --> 0:24:42.480 was kind of like, Okay, what do I do now? 0:24:42.600 --> 0:24:45.399 What do I kind of put in my time just 0:24:45.480 --> 0:24:47.119 you know, to buy my time for the for the 0:24:47.160 --> 0:24:50.440 football season. And really it just kind of happened out 0:24:50.440 --> 0:24:54.320 of nowhere where I covered one Latin American Amateur Championship, 0:24:54.640 --> 0:24:57.439 shortly in part import because I speak Spanish, so there 0:24:57.480 --> 0:24:59.040 was like an advantage there to talk to some of 0:24:59.040 --> 0:25:02.600 the players. And suddenly, you know, I'm being asked if 0:25:02.640 --> 0:25:04.679 I could go to the Women's Open and then the 0:25:04.760 --> 0:25:08.040 men's Open, and you know, so I think it's happened 0:25:08.040 --> 0:25:09.880 all really fast. But it's been a lot of fun. 0:25:09.960 --> 0:25:12.800 I mean, I recently got into playing, like about a 0:25:12.840 --> 0:25:14.520 year and a half ago, so it's all kind of 0:25:15.160 --> 0:25:19.840 coalescing into this big like golf, I don't know, golf 0:25:20.119 --> 0:25:23.000 golf interest, and it's been cool to get a chance to, 0:25:23.119 --> 0:25:26.360 you know, as I'm playing more and then finding out 0:25:26.400 --> 0:25:28.159 more about the game, like being up close to you know, 0:25:28.200 --> 0:25:30.639 obviously the best players in the world for sure. 0:25:31.080 --> 0:25:33.639 When was the Latin American am that you covered? Was 0:25:33.640 --> 0:25:34.720 that just like last year? 0:25:35.160 --> 0:25:36.720 It was this year? It was early this year. I 0:25:36.760 --> 0:25:40.359 don't remember exactly one month, but yeah, it was this 0:25:40.440 --> 0:25:42.600 year's Latin American Am, which was awesome. I mean it 0:25:42.640 --> 0:25:44.680 was It's really cool, Like those events, I feel like 0:25:44.720 --> 0:25:46.359 are really cool because you get to just get to 0:25:46.359 --> 0:25:48.240 know a bunch of stories, a bunch of different players 0:25:48.280 --> 0:25:51.040 who were you know, coming up and from different countries, 0:25:51.080 --> 0:25:54.000 and so it was a good like initial experience. And 0:25:54.040 --> 0:25:57.320 then the Women's Open last week was awesome at Pine Needles. 0:25:57.320 --> 0:25:59.359 That was a great tournament and also a lot of 0:25:59.640 --> 0:26:01.520 a ton of good stories there. So I think I 0:26:01.560 --> 0:26:04.920 was slowly making my way to the Men's US Open 0:26:04.960 --> 0:26:07.879 here and which which I mean quite quite a first 0:26:08.200 --> 0:26:10.159 men's tournament to do, but it's but it was a 0:26:10.200 --> 0:26:12.239 lot of fun to get to be up close for that. 0:26:12.800 --> 0:26:15.399 It is incredible. I think it was an all timer. 0:26:15.480 --> 0:26:18.280 So so you got a good one for your first 0:26:18.320 --> 0:26:21.199 men's US Open. So let's get into it. You know, 0:26:21.240 --> 0:26:24.680 if I were to ask you for one big takeaway 0:26:24.760 --> 0:26:27.480 from this week, like, you know, one major thing that 0:26:27.520 --> 0:26:30.720 you'll you'll remember and keep in your mind for this tournament, 0:26:30.720 --> 0:26:31.240 what would it be? 0:26:32.640 --> 0:26:35.960 Obviously, Fitzpatrick's just shot on eighteen that that feels like 0:26:36.000 --> 0:26:38.639 it's going to be remembered out of the bunker, you know, 0:26:38.720 --> 0:26:41.840 I was right there when he hit it, and when 0:26:41.840 --> 0:26:44.000 it landed, it's just was an explosion of cheers, and 0:26:44.040 --> 0:26:46.840 it was just just a crazy moment. Like as soon 0:26:46.880 --> 0:26:48.280 as he was in the bunker, I was like, Okay, 0:26:48.320 --> 0:26:50.080 this is going to a playoff. And the fact that 0:26:50.119 --> 0:26:52.479 he was able to win it all just right there 0:26:52.480 --> 0:26:54.320 on eighteenth hold that was crazy in itself. But I 0:26:54.400 --> 0:26:56.600 keep coming back to Sala Taurus while was Ala Taurus. 0:26:57.040 --> 0:27:00.120 For some reason, there was something about him, maybe just 0:27:00.160 --> 0:27:02.280 the way he talked in press conferences or the way 0:27:02.320 --> 0:27:06.000 he kind of came off before Sunday's round and then 0:27:06.040 --> 0:27:09.320 even after Sunday's round. I don't know there. I think 0:27:09.960 --> 0:27:12.200 I'm attracted to the mental aspect of the game. I 0:27:12.200 --> 0:27:15.280 think a lot, and he seems to be very much 0:27:15.320 --> 0:27:17.160 willing to kind of lay it all out there and 0:27:17.280 --> 0:27:19.720 just say, you know, this is how I'm feeling. And 0:27:19.720 --> 0:27:22.520 then also like you know, he literally said I'm three 0:27:22.520 --> 0:27:24.879 strokes away from a few strokes away from being a 0:27:24.880 --> 0:27:27.840 three time major champion, and you know, nobody could argue 0:27:27.960 --> 0:27:30.359 that with him for that. So I think for me, 0:27:30.560 --> 0:27:32.600 like I keep coming back to Sulla Taurus because there's 0:27:32.640 --> 0:27:36.440 a path where he's suddenly the guy that we're talking 0:27:36.440 --> 0:27:39.800 about instead of somebody like a Scottie Scheffler, And I 0:27:39.800 --> 0:27:42.719 don't know, I find him fascinating and I just wonder 0:27:42.800 --> 0:27:45.320 where he goes from here. And it feels like he's 0:27:45.640 --> 0:27:48.320 going to win a tournament sooner rather than later. But 0:27:48.760 --> 0:27:50.719 the fact that he kind of just finds himself in 0:27:50.720 --> 0:27:54.040 this similar situation it must be tough, you know, for 0:27:54.160 --> 0:27:55.440 him to deal with mentally. 0:27:55.920 --> 0:27:58.520 Yeah. Well, so he lost in a playoff at the 0:27:58.520 --> 0:28:02.880 PGA Championship to Thomas and he comes here and although 0:28:02.920 --> 0:28:05.480 there was no playoff, it really did feel like a 0:28:05.520 --> 0:28:09.399 shootout between Matt Fitzpatrick and will Zalatoris down the stretch, 0:28:09.440 --> 0:28:12.920 even though Scotti Scheffler was also getting into the mix 0:28:13.080 --> 0:28:15.280 during the final holes as well, But it just didn't 0:28:15.320 --> 0:28:18.560 feel like Scheffler was ever truly kind of part of 0:28:18.600 --> 0:28:21.840 the main story. The main story was Xalatoris versus Fitzpatrick, 0:28:21.880 --> 0:28:25.760 and Fitzpatrick prevailed. So Xalatoris did you follow him at 0:28:25.760 --> 0:28:29.160 all this week? Did you talk to him in interviews? 0:28:29.480 --> 0:28:32.160 What are just some of your observations about his playing 0:28:32.200 --> 0:28:36.359 style and his character and was it, you know, something 0:28:36.359 --> 0:28:38.520 in there that made him appeal to you. 0:28:39.520 --> 0:28:42.160 I caught him on the last few holes on Saturday 0:28:42.280 --> 0:28:44.600 and he was coming in at the lowest round and 0:28:45.040 --> 0:28:47.520 people were amazed at the rann who was putting together 0:28:47.560 --> 0:28:50.280 really because of the conditions in the weather, and he 0:28:50.440 --> 0:28:53.240 was just hitting everything so well. And I just the 0:28:53.560 --> 0:28:56.240 putting thing is so fascinating to me because he knows. 0:28:56.600 --> 0:28:59.640 It's clear that he knows. There was so much chatter 0:28:59.640 --> 0:29:01.320 about it putting, and I love that. I love that. 0:29:01.360 --> 0:29:03.880 I love that he's not like ignorant to the fact that, 0:29:03.960 --> 0:29:06.440 you know, people have theories about his putting or or 0:29:06.680 --> 0:29:09.040 zab rudering videos about his putting. Like I love that, 0:29:09.200 --> 0:29:11.880 you know, and I think it's great that he's like 0:29:11.960 --> 0:29:14.240 kind of lean almost leaning into it. Like today he 0:29:14.320 --> 0:29:18.000 called out the Instagram morons. He said, uh, that we're 0:29:18.040 --> 0:29:19.000 discussing his putting. 0:29:19.080 --> 0:29:22.000 Uh wait when did he say Instagram morons? Was this 0:29:22.040 --> 0:29:23.080 in a post round interview? 0:29:23.440 --> 0:29:25.440 It was I would have to pull it up. Let me, 0:29:25.520 --> 0:29:27.160 let me just pull it up really quick, because it 0:29:27.240 --> 0:29:27.680 was honest. 0:29:27.760 --> 0:29:31.080 So he was probably talking about people like, you know, 0:29:31.160 --> 0:29:34.080 sharing videos of his short putts, because it's his short 0:29:34.080 --> 0:29:37.040 puts where the issues crop up or seem to crop up. 0:29:37.480 --> 0:29:39.360 He makes a lot of them as far as I know. 0:29:39.760 --> 0:29:42.800 But the stroke is is hard to watch because there's 0:29:42.800 --> 0:29:46.720 a hesitation and an adjustment that happens with the putter 0:29:46.800 --> 0:29:50.680 head on the on the backstroke and and then eventually 0:29:50.720 --> 0:29:54.200 he's able to bring it through. But there's definitely a 0:29:54.280 --> 0:29:56.640 glitch there, a kind of stammer I guess in the 0:29:56.680 --> 0:29:58.280 in the putting stroke is how it would how I 0:29:58.280 --> 0:30:01.240 would describe it. That's not they are on the longer puts. 0:30:01.240 --> 0:30:03.720 In fact, his longer his twenty footers this week were 0:30:04.320 --> 0:30:06.200 dead eye. I mean, he was making a lot of 0:30:06.200 --> 0:30:08.640 them and getting close to making a lot more of them. 0:30:08.960 --> 0:30:11.120 But it's his short putts where where the demons seem 0:30:11.200 --> 0:30:12.400 to sort of pop up a little bit. 0:30:12.480 --> 0:30:16.320 Right, Well, I almost think he's he's he strikes me 0:30:16.320 --> 0:30:19.520 as somebody who's super self aware of his game, of 0:30:19.760 --> 0:30:22.520 just his whole self. And he said that on Saturday 0:30:22.560 --> 0:30:27.360 after his round. You know, like I'm playing defensively, he said, 0:30:27.400 --> 0:30:29.720 defensively aggressive. Basically, you have to play on this course, 0:30:29.760 --> 0:30:31.840 you have to be defensively aggressive. And he said he's 0:30:31.840 --> 0:30:34.640 just leaving himself with twenty five twenty to twenty five 0:30:34.920 --> 0:30:36.760 putts so that he knows, you know, he can get 0:30:36.800 --> 0:30:39.000 him close. He doesn't have to make them, but if 0:30:39.040 --> 0:30:41.800 he gets him close, he'll have very short puts to 0:30:41.800 --> 0:30:43.080 be able to, you know, just move on to the 0:30:43.160 --> 0:30:45.320 next hole. And I think for him, it was interesting 0:30:45.600 --> 0:30:48.880 to notice that he was, you know, he wasn't very 0:30:48.880 --> 0:30:51.200 aggressive out there. I mean, he laid up on the 0:30:51.200 --> 0:30:55.160 short part four fifth hole every day, which I mean 0:30:55.640 --> 0:30:58.160 that hole was I was right there next to the 0:30:58.160 --> 0:31:00.640 green today. I want to just watching that he laid 0:31:00.760 --> 0:31:03.720 up and it worked out fine. But then Fitzpatrick drove 0:31:03.840 --> 0:31:07.120 the green, which was insane, like that was. 0:31:07.080 --> 0:31:09.200 A great shot, one of the best shots of the day, one. 0:31:09.160 --> 0:31:11.760 Of the best shots of the day. So he's he 0:31:11.840 --> 0:31:14.760 seems so in control of his game that it's almost like, 0:31:15.440 --> 0:31:18.720 I wonder if you were letting yourself go a little 0:31:18.720 --> 0:31:20.840 bit more, maybe those are the chances you need to 0:31:20.880 --> 0:31:22.960 take right to be able to get over the hump. 0:31:23.160 --> 0:31:24.760 I don't know, like it's one of those things where 0:31:25.120 --> 0:31:27.080 it's hard to tell, right, it's hard to tell what 0:31:27.320 --> 0:31:29.160 is what is exactly holding him back? And I don't 0:31:29.200 --> 0:31:31.000 think there's anything holding him back. And he even said, 0:31:31.000 --> 0:31:32.880 you know, it's a few inches here and there, a 0:31:32.960 --> 0:31:35.160 break here and there, and so I don't know, I 0:31:35.160 --> 0:31:38.080 just find him fascinating because I think, you know, something 0:31:38.080 --> 0:31:40.600 I wrote on Saturday is, you know, usually we think 0:31:40.600 --> 0:31:43.680 of success for athletes as linear, right, and even in 0:31:43.720 --> 0:31:46.480 the NBA or any sport that almost that's almost never 0:31:46.520 --> 0:31:49.160 the case, right. But what he was saying is almost 0:31:49.160 --> 0:31:51.600 like the failure has been linear because every time he 0:31:51.640 --> 0:31:54.360 fails or he comes close and he doesn't win, he 0:31:54.440 --> 0:31:56.440 learned something else, He picks up something else and feels 0:31:56.440 --> 0:31:58.760 more confident to where he said, you know, after the 0:31:58.800 --> 0:32:01.640 PGA Championship he felt, Okay, I can be one of 0:32:01.640 --> 0:32:04.120 the best players in the world, which you know, he 0:32:04.800 --> 0:32:06.560 kind of showed that today in some ways. 0:32:06.880 --> 0:32:11.000 Yeah, I mean I wonder at what point the learning 0:32:11.600 --> 0:32:16.479 from failure stops and it just becomes scar tissue. Did 0:32:16.560 --> 0:32:18.800 you get a sense from him after the round this 0:32:18.880 --> 0:32:21.680 week what he was at least trying to take away 0:32:21.880 --> 0:32:25.280 from this experience in order to make it positive for 0:32:25.320 --> 0:32:25.800 the future. 0:32:26.440 --> 0:32:29.280 Yeah, it was interesting because in some ways the questions 0:32:29.320 --> 0:32:32.800 directed at him were, you know, how do you pick 0:32:32.840 --> 0:32:34.480 it back up? You know, how do you what do 0:32:34.520 --> 0:32:36.320 you learn from this? And you know, how do you 0:32:36.360 --> 0:32:37.959 get over this? And he was pretty honest, I mean 0:32:38.000 --> 0:32:40.680 honestly he was. He said, you know, I haven't had 0:32:40.680 --> 0:32:42.680 time to process this one. This one will probably sting 0:32:42.840 --> 0:32:46.280 more than the others because he was so close and 0:32:46.400 --> 0:32:47.960 you know he's going to be time to process it. 0:32:48.000 --> 0:32:50.680 But he did say I'm glad that the open is 0:32:51.160 --> 0:32:53.440 only in a few weeks now, way he can get 0:32:53.440 --> 0:32:55.400 back at there, get back out there. And so I 0:32:55.400 --> 0:32:58.040 think he seems like you're in a pretty good spot, 0:32:58.120 --> 0:33:01.040 you know. I he was literally this was like, this 0:33:01.080 --> 0:33:03.640 is a random observation, but I thought it was pretty interesting. 0:33:04.520 --> 0:33:06.040 And I'm sure this happens all the time. But he 0:33:06.120 --> 0:33:09.600 was answering questions while three TVs around him were showing 0:33:09.600 --> 0:33:12.840 Fitzpatrick raising the trophy, and at one point they cut 0:33:12.840 --> 0:33:15.040 the TVs off because they probably realized, like, Okay, this 0:33:15.120 --> 0:33:17.280 is kind of awkward position to be putting Will in. 0:33:17.640 --> 0:33:20.000 But then they brought him back and then suddenly, you know, 0:33:20.040 --> 0:33:22.640 he's finishing Upany's interview and Fitzpatrick is coming in and 0:33:22.680 --> 0:33:24.720 you hear all the cheers, and I don't know, like 0:33:24.880 --> 0:33:26.640 I mean, as a human being, you would think that 0:33:26.640 --> 0:33:27.960 that would get to you in some way. But he 0:33:27.960 --> 0:33:29.360 seemed pretty composed of it all. 0:33:29.800 --> 0:33:33.120 Yeah, yeah, did you pull up the Instagram moron's quote? 0:33:33.160 --> 0:33:35.160 I did. I did here, let me let me read it, 0:33:35.360 --> 0:33:39.080 let me read it to you. So he said, I 0:33:39.160 --> 0:33:41.239 honestly don't know what to take from this, yet I 0:33:41.280 --> 0:33:43.640 was pretty pleased, just because I'm known for my boss striking. 0:33:43.680 --> 0:33:45.280 And then he you know, he's talking about the putt 0:33:45.280 --> 0:33:47.960 on eighteen. I'm sure all the Instagram morons are going 0:33:47.960 --> 0:33:50.360 to say, has something to do with my left wrist 0:33:50.480 --> 0:33:53.480 flextion coming down, But I promise you it's got nothing 0:33:53.480 --> 0:33:55.440 to do with it. I think, just keep doing what 0:33:55.480 --> 0:33:57.600 we're doing. This one's stinks for sure, but I know 0:33:58.080 --> 0:33:59.040 that we're going to get this. 0:33:59.680 --> 0:34:01.560 So there you go. That sums it up pretty well 0:34:01.600 --> 0:34:04.600 right there. Yeah. I mean Salad Torus whenever I see 0:34:04.640 --> 0:34:06.440 him in an interview is. I made this joke on 0:34:06.840 --> 0:34:09.480 Twitter this year about how he's like the golfer that 0:34:09.560 --> 0:34:12.200 you want to take home to meet your parents because 0:34:12.200 --> 0:34:15.759 he's so well spoken. He comes across as friendly, as 0:34:15.960 --> 0:34:20.400 very intelligent, as self deprecating, but it also seems to 0:34:20.400 --> 0:34:23.239 bring with it this what you refer to earlier as 0:34:23.239 --> 0:34:26.840 a self awareness. And then that occasionally pops up in 0:34:26.880 --> 0:34:30.000 his golf game. I wonder if that's something you've thought about, 0:34:30.040 --> 0:34:34.080 whether that that aspect of his personality, that the self deprecation. 0:34:35.760 --> 0:34:39.480 He's not dull, you know, he's not like really low 0:34:39.920 --> 0:34:44.040 kind of energy like Scottie Scheffler and Dustin Johnson are 0:34:44.280 --> 0:34:46.480 you know, not that those guys aren't intelligent. I think 0:34:46.560 --> 0:34:48.520 that's a trope that we need to get rid of 0:34:48.560 --> 0:34:51.799 that DJ and Scheffler can't be intelligent, They just have 0:34:51.920 --> 0:34:55.239 a really different and lower energy. And so I wonder 0:34:55.239 --> 0:34:59.520 if Zalatorus's energy just being at that kind of higher frequency, 0:34:59.640 --> 0:35:02.200 if that can be something that will sort of limit 0:35:02.320 --> 0:35:04.400 him in some of those big moments. 0:35:05.160 --> 0:35:08.320 Yeah, it's interesting. I mean, I think he's not low energy, 0:35:08.360 --> 0:35:10.360 but I wouldn't even say he's high energy either. Like 0:35:10.400 --> 0:35:12.600 it's he's sort of just is right there in the 0:35:12.600 --> 0:35:15.560 middle where he can be, like you said, self deprecating, 0:35:15.600 --> 0:35:18.520 but also just kind of explain golf to you in 0:35:18.560 --> 0:35:21.680 some ways, Like he's not hesitant to be like, Okay, 0:35:21.719 --> 0:35:23.800 this was a shot you know I was thinking about, 0:35:24.120 --> 0:35:27.040 you know, and he even talked about Fitzpatrick's shot like 0:35:27.080 --> 0:35:28.880 he raved about it, you know, he said, you know, 0:35:29.840 --> 0:35:31.640 it's a one in twenty shot. It's a shot that 0:35:31.680 --> 0:35:34.960 will be showing in highlights over and over again. And 0:35:35.080 --> 0:35:37.759 so he I mean, honestly, maybe to put as simple like, 0:35:37.800 --> 0:35:40.680 he just seems like a golf nerd, right, who is 0:35:40.719 --> 0:35:44.160 able to not just talk about golf in a nerdy way, 0:35:44.200 --> 0:35:46.400 but also like express it in a way that's very 0:35:47.080 --> 0:35:50.200 proper and like, you know, it's very clear. And I 0:35:50.200 --> 0:35:53.200 think that was interesting to me, is he he He 0:35:53.320 --> 0:35:56.400 wasn't hesitant to show his what he was feeling. He 0:35:56.440 --> 0:35:59.759 wasn't hesitant to show you know, hey, I thought about 0:35:59.760 --> 0:36:01.719 this or did this or like, oh it, yeah, it 0:36:01.800 --> 0:36:04.520 sucks that I haven't. I've been so close, but I 0:36:04.560 --> 0:36:08.080 haven't won, you know, and I to me personally, that's 0:36:08.160 --> 0:36:11.880 just like a refreshing perspective, right, And you mentioned Scheffler, 0:36:11.920 --> 0:36:15.000 and Scheffler you know he tries, you know, he says 0:36:15.000 --> 0:36:16.600 things here and there, but he's also like, you know, 0:36:16.680 --> 0:36:19.239 when I play good golf, it's fun and and kind 0:36:19.239 --> 0:36:23.359 of that's it, right, yeah, exactly, And honestly, I Fitzpatrick 0:36:23.560 --> 0:36:26.120 similarly had some great quotes too. He's able to kind 0:36:26.120 --> 0:36:28.880 of you know, dissect his game dissect his round and 0:36:28.960 --> 0:36:31.480 talk about, you know, what he was thinking on and obviously, 0:36:31.600 --> 0:36:33.560 you know, from a media perspective, that just strikes a 0:36:33.600 --> 0:36:36.360 different chord, right, And I think I do wonder if, like, 0:36:36.640 --> 0:36:39.440 you know, how how that relates to the game, right, 0:36:39.480 --> 0:36:42.040 whether that changes things at all, because somebody like Scheffler 0:36:42.120 --> 0:36:44.600 or Dusta Johnson, do they just go out there and play, right, 0:36:45.600 --> 0:36:48.800 and these these other guys, like do they overthink things? 0:36:48.840 --> 0:36:49.160 Do they? 0:36:49.239 --> 0:36:49.440 You know? 0:36:49.480 --> 0:36:52.480 And obviously now we're just kind of projecting that onto 0:36:52.480 --> 0:36:55.080 them in some way, but it is part of part 0:36:55.120 --> 0:36:56.719 of you know, it's such a mental game that you 0:36:56.760 --> 0:36:58.680 do wonder if if some of that stuff gets to 0:36:58.719 --> 0:36:59.319 them a little bit. 0:36:59.680 --> 0:37:02.800 Yeah, I mean, Fitzpatrick certainly is well known for taking 0:37:02.840 --> 0:37:08.240 a meticulous, scientific approach to his game, and that certainly 0:37:08.280 --> 0:37:11.200 seemed to pay off this week. He has improved substantially 0:37:11.320 --> 0:37:13.880 over the past few years. The moment that's going to 0:37:13.920 --> 0:37:16.920 get remembered is that shot from the bunker, the fairway 0:37:16.960 --> 0:37:21.000 bunker on eighteen. An incredible shot because when the ball 0:37:21.440 --> 0:37:24.279 trickled into the bunker off the tee for Fitzpatrick and 0:37:24.360 --> 0:37:28.320 settled kind of not far from that lip, my first 0:37:28.320 --> 0:37:31.000 thought was is he going to be able to get 0:37:31.040 --> 0:37:33.640 this to the green or is this is he going 0:37:33.680 --> 0:37:36.239 to have to take a lob wedge and kind of 0:37:36.280 --> 0:37:38.840 pop this out onto the fairway. Now, you said that 0:37:39.560 --> 0:37:42.640 you were out there, you were looking at this shot, 0:37:42.840 --> 0:37:44.919 So could you set the scene for me? Where were 0:37:44.960 --> 0:37:47.799 you and what was going through your mind about what 0:37:47.960 --> 0:37:49.839 his you know, prospects were. 0:37:50.440 --> 0:37:53.960 So I was right behind the flag, just about behind 0:37:53.960 --> 0:37:56.480 the flag and you know, kind of by the TV tower, 0:37:56.520 --> 0:37:58.880 and of course everybody's you know, as soon as they 0:37:58.920 --> 0:38:02.360 see the ball going in the it's a huge like whoa, 0:38:02.440 --> 0:38:05.160 Like okay, here we go, like you know, playoff, thinking 0:38:05.200 --> 0:38:08.279 about all the different possibilities, like okay, it just got real, 0:38:08.360 --> 0:38:10.080 you know. And and even Zala Turis referred to it 0:38:10.080 --> 0:38:12.680 as a match by situation and it did feel that way, 0:38:12.760 --> 0:38:16.000 you know. And so you know, I'm standing back back there, 0:38:16.160 --> 0:38:19.680 everybody's crowding around that, you know, anticipation, and suddenly you 0:38:19.719 --> 0:38:22.640 see the ball just land so perfectly. And I was 0:38:22.680 --> 0:38:26.440 waiting for it to land in the front bunker, right 0:38:26.480 --> 0:38:29.360 the bunker that's protecting the eighteenth Green, because I was 0:38:29.360 --> 0:38:32.040 thinking about John Rahm the day before and how he 0:38:32.120 --> 0:38:33.799 landed in the bunker and how you know, obviously he 0:38:33.840 --> 0:38:35.239 wasn't able to get out of the bunker the first 0:38:35.239 --> 0:38:37.480 shot and the second shot he just ended up being 0:38:37.480 --> 0:38:42.279 in the front bunker. And I wonder, you know, it's 0:38:42.320 --> 0:38:45.120 crazy because you think about what was the thinking between 0:38:45.239 --> 0:38:47.680 just like just going for it, you know. I I 0:38:47.800 --> 0:38:50.319 like Zala Taurus called it baldsy, you know, and I 0:38:50.320 --> 0:38:52.279 think there's probably not a better way to describe it. 0:38:52.320 --> 0:38:55.520 And so it was just absolute, you know, pandemonium when 0:38:55.560 --> 0:38:58.560 when people saw you know, him land there. And what 0:38:58.800 --> 0:39:01.719 was even more fun was the fact that when Zala 0:39:01.760 --> 0:39:05.359 Trus hit it, he had it just inside Fitzpatrick's ball. 0:39:05.440 --> 0:39:07.040 So it was just like this, it just felt like 0:39:07.080 --> 0:39:10.160 this very you know, almost like a boxing match where 0:39:10.200 --> 0:39:12.120 like one fighter lands one punch and then the other 0:39:12.200 --> 0:39:14.239 lands a better punch. And of course, like you know, 0:39:14.320 --> 0:39:15.920 Zala Taurus had the pressure on him and he had 0:39:15.960 --> 0:39:18.480 to come back. But you could feel the atmosphere of 0:39:18.560 --> 0:39:22.040 just like, okay, this is we're we're witnessing something special, 0:39:22.200 --> 0:39:24.120 something we rarely get to see. You know, usually you 0:39:24.160 --> 0:39:26.239 get to see the leader come up right and try 0:39:26.280 --> 0:39:28.520 to finish off the round. But the fact that both 0:39:28.520 --> 0:39:30.480 guys were in the same group and just trying to 0:39:30.480 --> 0:39:33.000 finish it off and trying to hold on for Fitzpatrick 0:39:33.040 --> 0:39:34.880 and really try to come back for zala Taurus. It 0:39:34.920 --> 0:39:37.640 was it was a perfect sports moment in that sense, 0:39:37.680 --> 0:39:40.520 because you really had, you know, here's here's my shot, 0:39:40.600 --> 0:39:42.960 here's my shot, you know, and and and and that's it. 0:39:43.000 --> 0:39:45.200 You know, there's no I mean, Scheffler obviously was in 0:39:45.200 --> 0:39:47.520 the clubouse of five under, but at that point it 0:39:47.560 --> 0:39:48.600 was just about the two of them. 0:39:49.120 --> 0:39:51.560 Yeah, it really did seem that way. So, yeah, Sheffler 0:39:51.560 --> 0:39:55.480 was at five under, Zaladtorus was five under, and Fitzpatrick 0:39:55.560 --> 0:39:58.520 was standing at six under, and which ended up being 0:39:58.520 --> 0:40:00.600 a winning score. But there were a lot of potential 0:40:00.640 --> 0:40:04.280 scenarios that could have played out there, because if Xalatoris 0:40:04.440 --> 0:40:08.520 birdied the hole and Fitzpatrick part it, they the two 0:40:08.560 --> 0:40:11.000 of them would have gone to a playoff. If Xalatoris 0:40:11.000 --> 0:40:13.759 birdied the hole and Fitzpatrick bogied it, then Xaladoris would 0:40:13.760 --> 0:40:16.640 have won outright, and there could have been a three 0:40:16.640 --> 0:40:18.880 way playoff as well, which was starting to seem like 0:40:18.920 --> 0:40:21.959 the most likely situation that Xaladoris would par the hole 0:40:22.280 --> 0:40:25.440 and that Fitzpatrick would bogey it, but that didn't happen 0:40:25.640 --> 0:40:28.480 because that was such a sensational shot. Now looking at 0:40:28.520 --> 0:40:32.520 it from the television viewers perspective, my thought was that 0:40:32.600 --> 0:40:35.759 lip of the bunker is a problem. Ye that's blocking 0:40:36.600 --> 0:40:39.719 his route to the pin. And what it looked to 0:40:39.760 --> 0:40:41.880 me like he did, and I'm gonna sure if you 0:40:41.920 --> 0:40:44.719 remember the ballflight, but that he was really he was 0:40:44.800 --> 0:40:48.120 really specific with the initial start line of the shot. 0:40:48.160 --> 0:40:50.960 He was discussing that with his caddy, and it looked 0:40:51.000 --> 0:40:53.359 to me like that start line was well left of 0:40:53.400 --> 0:40:55.719 the flag. It may have even been left edge of 0:40:55.760 --> 0:40:59.719 the green. But he was able to cut the shot 0:40:59.760 --> 0:41:02.000 out of the bunker, he was able to hit a fade, 0:41:02.280 --> 0:41:04.000 and it was able to get it up pretty quickly. 0:41:04.040 --> 0:41:05.719 I'm not sure if it passed over the lip of 0:41:05.760 --> 0:41:08.239 the bunker and if maybe he missed his line a 0:41:08.239 --> 0:41:11.400 little bit to the right, but it seemed like the 0:41:11.440 --> 0:41:14.600 intention at least was to kind of start it just 0:41:14.760 --> 0:41:17.879 outside of that lip of the bunker and let it 0:41:18.200 --> 0:41:21.480 fall back to the right toward the pin. And just 0:41:21.600 --> 0:41:25.399 like the ability to do that in that situation from 0:41:25.440 --> 0:41:27.400 that spot is incredible. 0:41:28.000 --> 0:41:29.880 I mean, I think if Fitzpatrick said he hit a 0:41:29.960 --> 0:41:32.400 nine rate and it was funny because he said, you know, 0:41:32.960 --> 0:41:34.600 I don't even think about it, like it was like 0:41:34.640 --> 0:41:36.640 I just I play fast, and you know, I think 0:41:36.640 --> 0:41:39.880 it just natural instinct or natural talent took over and 0:41:39.920 --> 0:41:40.560 I aimed left. 0:41:40.560 --> 0:41:40.799 I think. 0:41:40.880 --> 0:41:44.799 I think my fellow colleague Kevin van Malcolmberg has a 0:41:44.840 --> 0:41:47.440 column about you know, being right there in that like 0:41:47.600 --> 0:41:50.560 right behind Fitzpatrick for that shot, and I believe he 0:41:50.600 --> 0:41:52.719 did say, you know, he aimed left right to maybe 0:41:52.719 --> 0:41:55.239 get over the bunker and have that ball flight in. 0:41:55.640 --> 0:41:57.600 But yeah, I think it's just eighteen was such an 0:41:57.600 --> 0:42:01.040 interesting hole. I mean I was also them during when 0:42:01.040 --> 0:42:04.520 they were on fifteen, and it's one of those things 0:42:04.520 --> 0:42:06.600 where you're just like, how does how do things turn 0:42:06.640 --> 0:42:08.920 out this way? Obviously the course factors into it, but 0:42:09.280 --> 0:42:11.000 Souad Tour has hit a better t shot, but he 0:42:11.080 --> 0:42:13.719 ended up in the rough and then Fitzpatrick hid him 0:42:13.719 --> 0:42:15.879 more further right, but he had handed up a better 0:42:15.960 --> 0:42:18.560 lie and he had a shot that was incredible too. 0:42:18.600 --> 0:42:20.800 Like I think if if he wouldn't have had the 0:42:20.800 --> 0:42:23.120 shot on eighteen, we would be remembering the shot on 0:42:23.160 --> 0:42:27.120 fifteen because he just perfectly shaped it into the green, 0:42:27.200 --> 0:42:29.839 and it was just and Sala Tours could barely get 0:42:29.840 --> 0:42:31.520 it up there off from the gruff. So it's just 0:42:31.920 --> 0:42:34.040 you know, these little breaks, right, these little moments, these 0:42:34.080 --> 0:42:38.320 little small you know, different different things could go different 0:42:38.320 --> 0:42:40.200 ways and it would have been a different tournament. But 0:42:40.280 --> 0:42:43.720 that was I thought that was another memorable hole because 0:42:43.719 --> 0:42:45.719 I think that's where things shifted a little bit as 0:42:45.719 --> 0:42:46.799 well for sure. 0:42:47.280 --> 0:42:49.760 All Right, well, Paula, thank you so much for joining 0:42:49.800 --> 0:42:52.560 me for this little segment. Appreciate it, and I'm looking 0:42:52.560 --> 0:42:55.880 forward to saying more work from you from golf tournaments. 0:42:56.040 --> 0:42:58.520 Thanks no, thank you guys for having me. I love 0:42:58.560 --> 0:42:59.920 the podcast and great to be on. 0:43:13.719 --> 0:43:16.799 All right. I am here with Ryan Barrath, who is 0:43:16.880 --> 0:43:20.640 now the senior editor of Equipment, the senior equipment editor 0:43:20.880 --> 0:43:24.000 at golf dot Com. Ryan, you've been on the podcast before. 0:43:24.320 --> 0:43:27.160 You're back for a quick takeaway segment. Where are you 0:43:27.239 --> 0:43:27.680 right now? 0:43:28.200 --> 0:43:30.920 I am outside of Connecticut for the Travelers Championship. I 0:43:30.960 --> 0:43:32.600 was at the US Open for a couple of days 0:43:32.640 --> 0:43:36.000 earlier in the week, went home back on a plane, 0:43:36.040 --> 0:43:38.600 and now I'm back on the road covering equipment again. 0:43:38.920 --> 0:43:41.600 Sweet all right, So I wanted to have you on 0:43:42.160 --> 0:43:48.440 to talk specifically about some training and equipment issues with 0:43:48.760 --> 0:43:52.960 our twenty twenty two US Open champion, Matt Fitzpatrick. A 0:43:53.040 --> 0:43:57.319 big part of the story this week was Matt Fitzpatrick's 0:43:57.400 --> 0:44:00.200 distance gains. You look at him and you don't think 0:44:00.280 --> 0:44:02.720 that he's going to hit the ball that far, and indeed, 0:44:02.760 --> 0:44:05.080 a couple of years ago he really didn't hit the 0:44:05.120 --> 0:44:06.799 ball that far. He was kind of in like the 0:44:06.800 --> 0:44:11.640 Web Simpson Zach Johnson area of the distance stats on 0:44:11.680 --> 0:44:14.640 the PGA Tour. He's added quite a bit of distance 0:44:15.080 --> 0:44:18.800 since then. A really informative stat I saw earlier today 0:44:18.880 --> 0:44:24.040 from Joseph Lamannia was that his percentage of drives over 0:44:24.200 --> 0:44:28.000 three hundred and fifteen yards has risen from around ten 0:44:28.080 --> 0:44:32.120 percent to around like twenty seven percent. So he's, you know, 0:44:32.200 --> 0:44:34.759 he's hitting a lot of drives way out there. He 0:44:34.880 --> 0:44:37.920 kind of has that bomb ball in him now and 0:44:38.000 --> 0:44:40.520 in terms of driving average, he's now around kind of 0:44:40.520 --> 0:44:44.720 tour average, So he has added a significant amount of distance. 0:44:44.760 --> 0:44:47.280 It was a big talking point on the telecast this week, 0:44:47.840 --> 0:44:51.400 and you have some information about how he went about that, 0:44:51.560 --> 0:44:53.680 So could you just give me a sense for what 0:44:53.880 --> 0:44:57.000 the basics of that story are how did Matt Fitzpatrick 0:44:57.120 --> 0:44:58.600 add that amount of distance? 0:44:59.160 --> 0:45:02.000 So there's a couple of facts here. One is his equipment. 0:45:02.480 --> 0:45:05.160 He is extremely optimized. One of the interesting things about 0:45:05.200 --> 0:45:06.960 a lot of players on the PGA tour is they 0:45:07.800 --> 0:45:10.960 are not completely optimized for distance. They're optimized for maybe 0:45:11.000 --> 0:45:13.480 a little bit more accuracy because they have power in 0:45:13.520 --> 0:45:16.560 the tank, as you would say. But for Matt, all 0:45:16.600 --> 0:45:19.479 of his equipment is designed to, especially with his driver, 0:45:19.600 --> 0:45:22.720 I mean, is designed for optimization of launch and spin. 0:45:23.360 --> 0:45:26.239 And what that comes down to, which is a relationship 0:45:26.280 --> 0:45:30.080 to clubhead speed, is ball speed. Ball speed is one 0:45:30.080 --> 0:45:32.560 of the most important factors when it comes to looking 0:45:32.600 --> 0:45:35.799 at distance potential that you're able to create, and the 0:45:35.880 --> 0:45:38.000 more ball speed you can create, the more distance you're 0:45:38.000 --> 0:45:40.279 going to create. You can see players with extremely high 0:45:40.280 --> 0:45:43.520 clubhead speeds that might not necessarily be extremely efficient. Well, 0:45:43.560 --> 0:45:45.640 Matt has put himself in a category where he is 0:45:46.080 --> 0:45:49.799 extremely efficient when it comes to his equipment just for optimization. 0:45:50.160 --> 0:45:52.239 And we saw that, I mean, there was a number 0:45:52.239 --> 0:45:54.880 of times where people pointed out that he drove it 0:45:54.920 --> 0:45:57.520 further than Dustin Johnson. And you know, five to ten 0:45:57.560 --> 0:45:59.560 years ago someone would go out and see Dustin Johnson 0:45:59.600 --> 0:46:01.719 and he's probably one of the longest players on tour 0:46:01.800 --> 0:46:05.640 and to think that somewhat unassuming British man would put 0:46:05.680 --> 0:46:07.480 it by him a number of times that the US 0:46:07.560 --> 0:46:10.120 Open this week was something to watch and I think, 0:46:10.200 --> 0:46:12.120 as you said, a lot of people took notice very quickly. 0:46:12.680 --> 0:46:16.120 So the equipment is optimized. There's been some training that 0:46:16.160 --> 0:46:19.640 has gone into this as well, right, and you have 0:46:20.040 --> 0:46:23.319 quite a bit of information about a specific method that 0:46:23.360 --> 0:46:25.920 he's been using. I believe he's been working on some 0:46:26.000 --> 0:46:30.719 technique stuff, as anybody would if they're trying to gain 0:46:30.760 --> 0:46:33.480 some distance, and so he's kind of shut down some 0:46:33.520 --> 0:46:36.680 of those distance leaks that he had before. Your colleague 0:46:36.719 --> 0:46:40.080 at golf dot Com, Luke Cardanen. But tell me a 0:46:40.080 --> 0:46:41.759 little about the STACK system. 0:46:42.239 --> 0:46:46.280 Yeah, So the STACK system is essentially an overload underload 0:46:46.360 --> 0:46:49.600 program that was developed by Sasha McKenzie and Marty Jertsen. 0:46:50.080 --> 0:46:54.160 Sasho is a Canadian biomechanist and a lot of people 0:46:54.160 --> 0:46:57.360 are familiar with Marty Jertson. He's a VP of Performance 0:46:57.360 --> 0:47:00.520 and Fitting at Ping Golf and one of the things 0:47:00.520 --> 0:47:02.160 that I know he's talked about in the past, and 0:47:02.200 --> 0:47:04.239 I had the chance to interview before was you know, 0:47:04.280 --> 0:47:06.400 Marty's a very accomplished player, and I believe he was 0:47:06.400 --> 0:47:09.200 playing in a PGA Championship or a US Open and 0:47:09.280 --> 0:47:11.560 he saw that he needed distance, Like he realized that, 0:47:11.600 --> 0:47:12.759 you know what, if I need to play at the 0:47:12.800 --> 0:47:14.520 big boy level, I need to be able to get 0:47:14.560 --> 0:47:16.120 it out there where with a lot of these players, 0:47:16.160 --> 0:47:19.360 and you know, they work to develop this overload underload 0:47:19.360 --> 0:47:22.080 and a lot of people familiar with it with baseball. 0:47:22.120 --> 0:47:23.920 I would say close to ten years ago this started 0:47:23.920 --> 0:47:26.759 becoming saying something where players would throw something heavy and 0:47:26.800 --> 0:47:28.799 then throw something light, and throw something heavy and throw 0:47:28.840 --> 0:47:31.680 something light, and it basically trains your body to actually 0:47:31.680 --> 0:47:34.920 move faster. And the stack system is that for golf, 0:47:35.200 --> 0:47:38.799 and it works with a basically a single stick that 0:47:38.920 --> 0:47:41.720 allows you to adjust the weights on it. Extremely heavy, 0:47:41.760 --> 0:47:45.120 extremely light. It can somewhat it can basically replicate the 0:47:45.200 --> 0:47:48.080 overall weight and feel of your driver, although it is 0:47:48.080 --> 0:47:50.480 abily forty two inches long, so a lot shorter than 0:47:50.520 --> 0:47:53.160 your driver. And you can you go through this program, 0:47:53.239 --> 0:47:56.399 and the program, thanks to Ta Sasho and Marty's begain 0:47:56.560 --> 0:48:00.160 very very smart people, creates an individual program based on 0:48:00.200 --> 0:48:03.280 your driver swing, based on where you are losing potential. 0:48:03.280 --> 0:48:06.480 Because it goes through a baseline setting program that is 0:48:06.480 --> 0:48:09.120 basically like close to it's what. It takes about twenty 0:48:09.120 --> 0:48:10.520 five to thirty minutes to go through. It's a lot 0:48:10.560 --> 0:48:13.040 of swings. And one of the reasons I'm familiar with 0:48:13.120 --> 0:48:14.160 it is because I'm a user. 0:48:14.800 --> 0:48:15.080 I was. 0:48:15.120 --> 0:48:17.040 I would say that I was a relatively early adopter 0:48:17.120 --> 0:48:19.400 to this, much like Matt. I was someone who was 0:48:19.440 --> 0:48:21.600 not overly long. I mean Matt was much longer than 0:48:21.600 --> 0:48:26.520 me anyways, but you know, to see what is potentially 0:48:26.520 --> 0:48:30.800 potentially available through also not only like creating and reducing 0:48:30.800 --> 0:48:33.000 those speed leaks, as you say in your swing, but 0:48:33.040 --> 0:48:36.000 also finding a program that's going to work. And for Matt, 0:48:36.040 --> 0:48:37.600 I mean I was at the range that came open 0:48:37.840 --> 0:48:39.640 a couple weeks ago now, and he was out there 0:48:39.719 --> 0:48:42.560 using this thing over and over again. And it's it 0:48:42.600 --> 0:48:45.440 has warm up programs, it has programs that are you 0:48:45.440 --> 0:48:47.120 can use like in more and off seasons, so they're 0:48:47.200 --> 0:48:50.080 like really more heavy training programs, maintenance programs. 0:48:50.120 --> 0:48:51.160 It's a really cool system. 0:48:51.160 --> 0:48:54.840 And again, you know, I don't I'm just an advocate 0:48:54.880 --> 0:48:56.960 for it because I didn't think that I would have 0:48:56.960 --> 0:48:58.520 the potential to gain the speed that I did when 0:48:58.520 --> 0:49:01.640 I started using it about a year ago. And it's impressive. 0:49:01.680 --> 0:49:03.960 And for Matt, I mean, you know, for someone who average, 0:49:04.120 --> 0:49:06.960 say under one seventy to hit ball speeds into the 0:49:07.000 --> 0:49:09.440 low and mid one eighties at the US Open this week, 0:49:10.000 --> 0:49:12.719 that is a big, big jump because ball speed is 0:49:12.880 --> 0:49:15.800 king when it comes to creating distance, and he's obviously 0:49:15.840 --> 0:49:18.759 done that. And you know, the stack system, again is 0:49:18.800 --> 0:49:21.680 something that has as baseball pitchers have used it to 0:49:21.680 --> 0:49:25.239 gain speed. It trains your body to move faster. You 0:49:25.280 --> 0:49:27.279 don't have to bulk up Lake Bryce, and you can 0:49:27.280 --> 0:49:29.080 get stronger, but you don't need to bulk up like 0:49:29.280 --> 0:49:30.680 you see a lot of these players try to do. 0:49:30.719 --> 0:49:32.480 You got to protect your body in certain ways when 0:49:32.520 --> 0:49:34.799 you are moving faster, but it comes to down to 0:49:34.880 --> 0:49:38.560 training your body to actually make that speed and control it. 0:49:38.600 --> 0:49:40.560 And obviously he did a very good job of that 0:49:40.680 --> 0:49:42.480 and it also helped him, you know, hit it straighter too, 0:49:42.480 --> 0:49:43.440 which is very important. 0:49:43.760 --> 0:49:46.239 Right now, Okay, so this is not an ad for 0:49:46.320 --> 0:49:49.359 the Stack system. You're not endorsing the Stack system. You're 0:49:49.400 --> 0:49:53.160 somebody who has used it. We're talking about this because 0:49:53.200 --> 0:49:56.520 it's a pretty common thing that tour players are doing now. 0:49:56.840 --> 0:50:01.160 They're using these speed training programs. Are ones other than 0:50:01.239 --> 0:50:04.239 the STACK system out there? What's the one that's like 0:50:04.320 --> 0:50:07.759 really well on the one that kind of is maybe 0:50:07.840 --> 0:50:10.320 the best known. What's it called it? Like it's like 0:50:10.360 --> 0:50:11.240 the different sticks? 0:50:11.560 --> 0:50:15.520 Yeah, was like speed sticks. So they they have so 0:50:15.640 --> 0:50:20.360 the difference again, very similar programming. Stack uses like an app. 0:50:20.440 --> 0:50:24.400 They have other programs that are within the this. I think, 0:50:24.440 --> 0:50:25.920 I want to say it' speed six. I don't know, 0:50:25.960 --> 0:50:27.040 I'm I feel like I'm. 0:50:27.320 --> 0:50:30.359 Something, I feel like simplified. I can find different examples 0:50:30.760 --> 0:50:34.279 of this out there. And players use these things, you know, 0:50:34.320 --> 0:50:38.160 and and essentially it's like it's like weight training kind of, 0:50:38.200 --> 0:50:40.520 but it's it's the golf swing exactly. 0:50:40.600 --> 0:50:43.480 And uh, you've seen like Phil has used them in 0:50:43.480 --> 0:50:45.359 the past, I know, you know everyone talked about Phil 0:50:45.440 --> 0:50:47.360 like keeping his distance into his fifties, which is a 0:50:47.480 --> 0:50:50.839 very impressive feat overall, and you can see him out 0:50:50.840 --> 0:50:53.120 in the range. So he'll use these things these ways. 0:50:53.160 --> 0:50:56.120 The really fast swings, right yeah. Same kind of like 0:50:56.160 --> 0:50:58.360 a minor meme for a bit when he first started 0:50:58.400 --> 0:51:00.960 doing it, because it looked so ridiculous. But what he 0:51:01.120 --> 0:51:03.759 was doing was he was like training himself how to 0:51:03.880 --> 0:51:07.040 swing super fast. And it might sound kind of stupid, 0:51:07.320 --> 0:51:09.719 but it seems like one of the big things that 0:51:09.760 --> 0:51:11.880 you need to do if you're trying to gain distance 0:51:12.320 --> 0:51:15.439 is just swinging faster. You just have to get used 0:51:15.440 --> 0:51:19.080 to whipping the club through faster. And that's what these 0:51:19.120 --> 0:51:19.879 guys are doing now. 0:51:20.239 --> 0:51:22.000 And one of the fasting things. And I've worked with 0:51:22.040 --> 0:51:25.440 people like about this and I'm not I'm no expert 0:51:25.440 --> 0:51:25.879 in the field. 0:51:25.960 --> 0:51:26.879 I'm just a user and. 0:51:26.840 --> 0:51:29.319 Have absorbed a lot of information around people and gone 0:51:29.320 --> 0:51:31.759 through this process is the fact that you can only 0:51:31.800 --> 0:51:33.840 swing as fast as you can stop it. You know, 0:51:33.920 --> 0:51:36.520 you can only put an f one car can only 0:51:36.520 --> 0:51:38.279 go as fast as it's able to stop or else 0:51:38.400 --> 0:51:41.239 it doesn't work right. And so part of this is 0:51:41.280 --> 0:51:43.440 your body being able to control that speed and know 0:51:43.440 --> 0:51:45.520 where it's going. These are players at the highest level, 0:51:45.920 --> 0:51:49.720 So again we've got stacked. There's the super super Speed. 0:51:49.719 --> 0:51:50.560 That's it, so super. 0:51:50.360 --> 0:51:52.319 Speed, yeah, that's yeah. Yeah. 0:51:52.360 --> 0:51:55.640 And then there's another one called the sling Shot, which 0:51:55.680 --> 0:51:58.720 is a relatively new product, and they all offer different 0:51:58.920 --> 0:52:02.680 kind of ways of doing this using either timing devices 0:52:02.760 --> 0:52:06.319 or interchangeable weights. Slingshot is one that has a number 0:52:06.360 --> 0:52:10.360 of interchangeable weights. The speed sticks has a number of 0:52:10.400 --> 0:52:13.120 different sticks, so they're not interchangeable. You'll see other versions 0:52:13.160 --> 0:52:16.280 of these as well, but it's it's essentially an overload 0:52:16.360 --> 0:52:19.640 underload program. And from Matt, this is one of the 0:52:19.680 --> 0:52:21.720 things when new work in club fitting and club building, 0:52:21.760 --> 0:52:23.080 and you see all the time, how do I get 0:52:23.080 --> 0:52:24.239 in distance? How do I get di how do I 0:52:24.960 --> 0:52:27.360 You can optimize as much as you want, but you 0:52:27.400 --> 0:52:29.120 know everyone says, oh, the shaft is the engine to 0:52:29.120 --> 0:52:30.479 the club, or the club adds anger to the club. 0:52:30.760 --> 0:52:32.640 Your human body is the engine of the golf club. 0:52:33.360 --> 0:52:35.680 You cannot make a golf club go faster unless you're 0:52:35.719 --> 0:52:37.759 able to swing it faster. You can do little things 0:52:37.760 --> 0:52:39.080 to tweak it, maybe make it a little lighter, a 0:52:39.120 --> 0:52:41.640 little longer, but the potential comes from you as the 0:52:41.719 --> 0:52:44.640 human being. And Matt's the perfect example of someone who 0:52:44.680 --> 0:52:46.319 you know, really doesn't mess to his equipment. He's got 0:52:46.360 --> 0:52:49.880 some fairly old gear in his bag, newer driver relative 0:52:49.880 --> 0:52:52.160 a newer fairywood, newer I mean we're talking clubs in 0:52:52.160 --> 0:52:53.719 the last five years, and his driver is a new 0:52:54.040 --> 0:52:57.680 current model, but he's realized that, you know, I'm going 0:52:57.760 --> 0:52:59.480 to change my body. If I'm going to do something 0:52:59.760 --> 0:53:02.359 really important, it's going to be training my body. And 0:53:03.160 --> 0:53:05.239 Bryson gets a lot of the attention for what he 0:53:05.320 --> 0:53:08.080 created and the drive Bay Hill and all these different things. 0:53:08.120 --> 0:53:11.640 But over the last two years, it's progress, progress, progress, 0:53:11.640 --> 0:53:14.799 and obviously it worked out for him taking it home Brookline. 0:53:15.239 --> 0:53:17.839 Yeah, it seems like a pretty durable model for Matt Fitzpatrick. 0:53:17.880 --> 0:53:20.480 He's not going anywhere. Would expect him to win on 0:53:20.520 --> 0:53:22.480 the PGA Tour a bit more, but he's starting to 0:53:22.520 --> 0:53:24.919 seem like one of those major specialists, one of those 0:53:25.280 --> 0:53:27.600 guys who just shows up when the course is good 0:53:27.719 --> 0:53:30.600 and hard and when the pretenders are going to fall away. 0:53:31.160 --> 0:53:34.200 You know, that's when Matt Fitzpatrick is going to thrive. 0:53:34.280 --> 0:53:36.640 And part of it is due to this really smart 0:53:36.680 --> 0:53:39.279 work that he's done on his game. All Right, thank 0:53:39.280 --> 0:53:42.120 you so much, Ryan, appreciate it. Have fun in Connecticut 0:53:42.160 --> 0:53:43.920 this week. That's a fun tournament. That's cool that you 0:53:43.960 --> 0:53:46.279 get to go to that one. Looking forward to seeing 0:53:46.280 --> 0:53:48.239 your work out of there, and we'll chat again soon. 0:53:48.640 --> 0:53:59.239 Thanks for having me, all right, I am on the 0:53:59.320 --> 0:54:03.320 line with Bradley Klein, who is a golf architecture historian. 0:54:03.760 --> 0:54:06.640 He was also on site this week to write some 0:54:06.840 --> 0:54:11.040 articles for Morning Red, which is now a sports illustrated company, 0:54:11.080 --> 0:54:14.439 so you can see his work there. Brad, you were 0:54:14.560 --> 0:54:17.200 at the country club this week when. 0:54:17.080 --> 0:54:20.320 Exactly this week I was, well, I was at media 0:54:20.400 --> 0:54:23.719 day three weeks ago and played the course, not from 0:54:23.760 --> 0:54:27.440 those tees, I played them from more forward, these like 0:54:27.480 --> 0:54:30.200 sixty one hundred yards. And then I was out there 0:54:30.200 --> 0:54:33.719 all day Wednesday, all day long, and then walked with 0:54:33.840 --> 0:54:35.719 a couple of players inside the ropes, and then did 0:54:35.719 --> 0:54:36.760 the same thing on Friday. 0:54:37.000 --> 0:54:41.360 Okay, So just talking about the course itself, the architecture 0:54:41.400 --> 0:54:43.319 that you saw out there, the setup that you saw 0:54:43.360 --> 0:54:47.440 out there. What is your number one big takeaway from 0:54:47.719 --> 0:54:48.120 the week? 0:54:48.880 --> 0:54:49.359 I thought the. 0:54:49.320 --> 0:54:53.319 Course was absolutely brilliant. It held up, It presented an 0:54:53.400 --> 0:54:57.160 amazing challenge. In some ways, it was a little bit 0:54:57.160 --> 0:55:01.000 more of a typical or classical throwback soap and set up. 0:55:01.440 --> 0:55:04.960 Didn't have the wide stairways of Aaron Hills, it didn't 0:55:05.000 --> 0:55:09.520 have the contrivances of crazy fast greens with the surrounds 0:55:09.520 --> 0:55:12.600 that rolled out forever like Shinnecak Hills in four and 0:55:12.680 --> 0:55:15.680 in twenty eighteen. It was a wonderful combination of fairly 0:55:15.719 --> 0:55:18.560 small greens. You noticed there was no short there's no 0:55:18.600 --> 0:55:22.120 short class rollouts around there. You rolled into sand or 0:55:22.640 --> 0:55:26.640 graduated rough and the very precise cuts. The course is 0:55:26.640 --> 0:55:28.840 not long. It was like seventy two sixty four. I 0:55:28.880 --> 0:55:31.120 think overall probably played a little short reach day, but 0:55:31.440 --> 0:55:34.560 because you had wind and the course was firming up 0:55:34.640 --> 0:55:38.560 each three days until the rains came Saturday night. But 0:55:38.640 --> 0:55:41.840 you know, you saw the scores were rising when the 0:55:41.880 --> 0:55:44.360 wind and the dry weather came up. And then all 0:55:44.400 --> 0:55:47.600 of a sudden this morning, because of the three tents 0:55:47.640 --> 0:55:50.239 of an inch, course was a little more receptive shot. 0:55:50.440 --> 0:55:53.200 This average score went down. But it was a stunning, 0:55:53.760 --> 0:55:58.640 perfect test for modern tour players. It was not bombing Gowage. 0:55:58.719 --> 0:56:02.239 You had to be precise, a lot of inconsistency in 0:56:02.280 --> 0:56:05.759 the lies and bunkers, around the bunkers and in the rough. 0:56:06.840 --> 0:56:08.959 The other thing you saw which was interesting is because 0:56:08.960 --> 0:56:10.759 you had so many layer cuts. You know, you had 0:56:10.800 --> 0:56:15.000 fairways cut, then you had five foot wide intermediate at 0:56:15.000 --> 0:56:16.440 an inch and a quarter. Then you had an eight 0:56:16.480 --> 0:56:18.400 foot wide path that was two and a half to 0:56:18.480 --> 0:56:21.440 three inches. Then you had more intense rof at four inches, 0:56:22.120 --> 0:56:23.839 so a lot of times of all rolling out would 0:56:23.840 --> 0:56:26.040 come up right against the edge and you couldn't tell, 0:56:26.200 --> 0:56:28.280 if you know, your house of protects in the heavier 0:56:28.320 --> 0:56:31.520 grass and your lie was in the slightly shorter grass. 0:56:31.560 --> 0:56:36.000 So you had a lot of difficult, complex lies and 0:56:36.600 --> 0:56:38.480 shots to have to deal with. And I just thought 0:56:39.040 --> 0:56:43.440 it was a fantastic open. Nobody lost it. Fitzpax had 0:56:43.480 --> 0:56:49.520 played brilliantly. It's just fabulous, absolutely fabulous open. 0:56:49.840 --> 0:56:53.400 Yeah. So you know you were there on Wednesday and Friday. 0:56:54.600 --> 0:56:58.720 The word was that on Wednesday the course was pretty fiery, 0:56:59.400 --> 0:57:02.319 and then on Friday they slowed it down just a 0:57:02.360 --> 0:57:05.960 bit with some water. Did you see a difference in 0:57:06.000 --> 0:57:08.800 how the course was playing during that last practice round 0:57:09.080 --> 0:57:12.080 on Wednesday versus how it played on Friday. 0:57:12.840 --> 0:57:14.720 Well, there was a lot less wind than the wind. 0:57:15.560 --> 0:57:18.320 It was the same wind as on Thursday. In other words, 0:57:18.640 --> 0:57:21.400 it was a reverse wind coming out of the east 0:57:21.440 --> 0:57:23.320 on Wednesday, as I recall, and then it came out 0:57:23.360 --> 0:57:27.840 of the northwest for the last few days. So what 0:57:27.880 --> 0:57:30.560 I did see was that the wind pretty much laid 0:57:30.600 --> 0:57:32.960 down and it was warmer also, and then the temperature 0:57:33.000 --> 0:57:35.240 dropped over the weekend, so it ball doesn't go quite 0:57:35.240 --> 0:57:37.880 as far. But they didn't tinker with that golf course 0:57:38.040 --> 0:57:40.240 very much. They might have put a little water in 0:57:40.680 --> 0:57:43.680 because it was supposed to rain on Friday and it 0:57:43.720 --> 0:57:46.920 never did. So there was a little bit of control, 0:57:46.960 --> 0:57:49.400 but not much. And I didn't see any I didn't 0:57:49.400 --> 0:57:53.880 see molars in the rough, so they just let it go. 0:57:54.200 --> 0:57:58.320 And you know what's very impressive is the strength. Now 0:57:58.360 --> 0:58:01.400 I was there in eighty eight, so that's the day. 0:58:01.760 --> 0:58:04.320 Those are the days of you know, the old wound 0:58:04.360 --> 0:58:07.800 golf ball and Curtis Strange, you know, hitting at two 0:58:07.920 --> 0:58:12.400 fifty five off the tee. The athletes, now they weren't 0:58:12.440 --> 0:58:16.400 athletes then, are so much stronger, and they can attack 0:58:16.480 --> 0:58:20.560 the ball with so much force on a vertical plane 0:58:20.600 --> 0:58:23.600 that allows them to flush through the rough and so 0:58:24.160 --> 0:58:26.360 because it's not quite permuta, the ball doesn't go to 0:58:26.400 --> 0:58:29.920 the bottom of it get completely covered for the most part, 0:58:30.400 --> 0:58:33.080 so that they can muscle their way out and you know, 0:58:33.080 --> 0:58:37.320 they're hitting seven irons one ninety. But that's the modern 0:58:37.400 --> 0:58:42.200 athletic golf point. And what's interesting is it's everybody is 0:58:42.280 --> 0:58:45.600 learning it. There was much attention paid to Fitzpatrick having 0:58:45.680 --> 0:58:47.960 increased his swing speed from one twelve to one nineteen 0:58:48.080 --> 0:58:50.200 miles per hour over the last two years and what 0:58:50.240 --> 0:58:52.880 that allowed him to do. And he's not a very 0:58:52.880 --> 0:58:54.760 big guy, you know. You look at the two guys, 0:58:55.360 --> 0:58:59.760 Xalaturus and Fitzpatrick are fairly slight looking, but boy did 0:58:59.760 --> 0:59:02.280 they get a lot of velocity out of the swing. 0:59:02.400 --> 0:59:05.919 So I think the graduated roughs here actually worked really well. 0:59:06.200 --> 0:59:09.760 The one regret I always have with these setups is 0:59:09.760 --> 0:59:13.600 because of the spectator trampling at the far edges. If 0:59:13.600 --> 0:59:16.680 you missed the fairway by fifty by ten yards, you 0:59:16.760 --> 0:59:19.360 have a very difficult line to deal with it. You 0:59:19.480 --> 0:59:22.240 miss it by forty yards, you're in trample down ground. 0:59:23.840 --> 0:59:25.360 I don't think there's any way to deal with that 0:59:25.560 --> 0:59:27.280 other than keeping spectators off. 0:59:28.080 --> 0:59:29.960 Which you don't want to do. But it is sort 0:59:29.960 --> 0:59:34.280 of graduating in the opposite direction from from what the 0:59:34.840 --> 0:59:38.520 intention is. So you refer to the nineteen eighty eight 0:59:38.680 --> 0:59:41.920 US Open at the country Club, which you attended. You know, 0:59:41.960 --> 0:59:44.840 the course then was prepared by Reese Jones. That was 0:59:45.120 --> 0:59:47.440 that was the Reese Jones restoration. You know, the kind 0:59:47.440 --> 0:59:50.280 of that. You know, we discussed this in the podcast 0:59:50.280 --> 0:59:53.040 that we just released about the Open Doctor. That was 0:59:53.120 --> 0:59:56.720 kind of a really important moment in popularizing the notion 0:59:56.800 --> 1:00:00.560 of restoration. You know, I'm not sure how how vividly 1:00:00.600 --> 1:00:03.200 you remember the details of the course from nineteen eighty eight, 1:00:03.520 --> 1:00:05.840 but if you were to compare the course now to 1:00:06.000 --> 1:00:09.720 that course then at the eighty eight US Open, what 1:00:09.800 --> 1:00:13.280 are some of the main differences that jump out to you. 1:00:13.880 --> 1:00:16.840 Well, there are half as many trees, and there's twice 1:00:16.880 --> 1:00:19.880 as much or three times as much rescue tall knee 1:00:19.920 --> 1:00:24.480 high grasses. And you know, when I look back now 1:00:24.520 --> 1:00:27.720 and I think about, what was that restoration talk all about. 1:00:27.920 --> 1:00:32.240 Because the fairways were fairly narrow, you couldn't get the 1:00:33.080 --> 1:00:35.120 ball to roll quite as firmly because of all sorts 1:00:35.160 --> 1:00:38.280 of technology. I do think there was some greens expansion 1:00:38.280 --> 1:00:42.200 back then. They lengthened the golf course. You Know, what 1:00:42.200 --> 1:00:44.600 I would say is that the country Club even then 1:00:45.000 --> 1:00:49.919 presented a very different image than many of the old 1:00:50.560 --> 1:00:53.360 golf courses that were on the tour, or for that matter, 1:00:53.400 --> 1:00:57.080 on the US Open rota. If you think back to 1:00:57.120 --> 1:01:02.600 what Congressional or Olympic club certainly Oakland Hills, which was 1:01:02.760 --> 1:01:06.400 just tight ribbon fairway, lateral bunkers left and right. You 1:01:06.440 --> 1:01:10.640 did have more offset bumpering at the country club back then, 1:01:11.120 --> 1:01:13.680 and that was accentuated. They were expanded a little bit, 1:01:13.880 --> 1:01:16.200 so you did have that sort of I would say, 1:01:16.360 --> 1:01:19.080 particularly the offset bunker, and I remember that very distinctly 1:01:19.080 --> 1:01:22.080 in dealing with those praggy mounds like on third hole 1:01:22.240 --> 1:01:26.400 or the long four part tenth hole. So what was 1:01:26.440 --> 1:01:30.080 achieved this time around, through Gilhans and through Superintendent Dave 1:01:30.200 --> 1:01:35.120 Johnson and the USGA prep with Darren Bivard as a 1:01:35.240 --> 1:01:39.960 championship agronomist was a real master work of fast down 1:01:40.000 --> 1:01:43.520 the middle and very demanding on the edges. And it 1:01:43.680 --> 1:01:46.440 just worked out, you know, if you notice, because all 1:01:46.480 --> 1:01:49.680 the talk all week was about the Saudi Toller and 1:01:50.160 --> 1:01:52.960 Greg Norman and all that other stuff, people forgot the 1:01:53.000 --> 1:01:55.960 golf course and there was not a single The biggest 1:01:56.000 --> 1:01:58.640 issue on the whole golf course all week was whether 1:01:59.280 --> 1:02:02.640 Justin Thomas should have gotten a drop from the fairway 1:02:03.200 --> 1:02:06.920 at the drain on Saturday. That was it. Nobody had 1:02:06.920 --> 1:02:08.760 a single complaint, well. 1:02:08.760 --> 1:02:10.919 Which seems to be kind of the goal right now, 1:02:11.000 --> 1:02:14.200 right for the USGA setup team that the course is 1:02:14.240 --> 1:02:16.680 not really the story, or at least that's that's what 1:02:16.720 --> 1:02:19.240 it strikes me that they've been trying to do. You know, 1:02:19.280 --> 1:02:21.720 they want the course to be maybe the story in 1:02:21.760 --> 1:02:23.920 the early week in the sense that we go to 1:02:23.960 --> 1:02:26.960 a different course every year. But if the course is 1:02:26.960 --> 1:02:29.720 a story later in the week, then to the USGA 1:02:29.880 --> 1:02:33.280 right now, that will usually mean that it's not good 1:02:33.280 --> 1:02:36.160 that people are talking about the setup in a negative way. 1:02:36.720 --> 1:02:39.800 But this week that wasn't really the point of discussion. 1:02:40.440 --> 1:02:43.240 The golfers should be the story on Tuesday and Wednesday 1:02:43.280 --> 1:02:46.000 and Thursday should be about the competition. Now. Part of 1:02:46.040 --> 1:02:47.880 the difference, I want to be careful how and say 1:02:47.920 --> 1:02:50.520 this is that Mike lan is not an aspiring architect. 1:02:50.800 --> 1:02:56.040 He's a businessman, right which Mike Davis was has since 1:02:56.080 --> 1:02:59.400 actually gone into architecture. And that's not meant as an 1:02:59.440 --> 1:02:59.960 insult to him. 1:03:00.280 --> 1:03:02.280 To be fair, Mike Davis didn't bring a lot of 1:03:02.360 --> 1:03:05.080 innovation to the golf course set up. That was evident today. 1:03:05.080 --> 1:03:08.600 You had a brilliant short four part the fifth hole 1:03:08.880 --> 1:03:11.960 that they could go for, which, by the way, played 1:03:12.360 --> 1:03:15.280 a level park today didn't even play under book. What 1:03:15.680 --> 1:03:18.880 Mike Davis did introduce was the graduated rough and the 1:03:18.960 --> 1:03:21.680 importance of shifting that kind of categories of holes. You 1:03:21.680 --> 1:03:25.320 had short fours and long force, and you had, you know, 1:03:25.600 --> 1:03:28.920 like you had this time around, very demanding long four pars, 1:03:29.000 --> 1:03:32.240 like that tenth hole that played way over par, you know, 1:03:32.280 --> 1:03:34.080 the one with the second shot way up the hill. 1:03:35.120 --> 1:03:37.680 So I give him credit for that, and he certainly 1:03:37.920 --> 1:03:40.320 made the USJA take more of an investment in the 1:03:40.360 --> 1:03:42.160 course set up in a more varied way than just 1:03:42.160 --> 1:03:44.440 a punit of single file, you know down the middle 1:03:44.480 --> 1:03:48.480 of the twenty two yard wide fairways, so a lot 1:03:48.520 --> 1:03:50.560 more variety out there. You know, some of these fairways 1:03:50.560 --> 1:03:52.840 were forty yards in the in the landing area and 1:03:52.840 --> 1:03:54.920 then a narrow down to twelve in the chicage like 1:03:54.960 --> 1:03:57.040 you had on the third holes or the tenth hole. 1:03:57.160 --> 1:04:00.840 So I just thought the variety was brilliant, and you 1:04:01.000 --> 1:04:03.160 had because you're taking out all these trees, you have 1:04:03.200 --> 1:04:06.280 a lot more wind across the golf courst. So people 1:04:06.280 --> 1:04:10.480 don't appreciate the impact of wind as something that sort 1:04:10.520 --> 1:04:12.840 of pops up. Once you've taken trees down, it's still 1:04:12.840 --> 1:04:14.800 a tree golf courst but it was a lot more 1:04:14.840 --> 1:04:16.000 openness to it as. 1:04:15.880 --> 1:04:20.040 Well, right and inconsistent trees, and so the winds become 1:04:20.120 --> 1:04:23.120 sort of unpredictable because there are places presumably on the 1:04:23.120 --> 1:04:25.680 course where the winds are kind of you know, it 1:04:25.720 --> 1:04:27.760 feels a little more still, but then there are more 1:04:27.800 --> 1:04:30.120 open places where the wind plays a big role, and 1:04:30.160 --> 1:04:32.640 so the player always has to be thinking about it. 1:04:32.640 --> 1:04:35.000 It's not a constant thing, it's a variable thing. 1:04:35.480 --> 1:04:38.160 Well. The perfect example of that little dropshot Part three 1:04:38.200 --> 1:04:41.480 eleventh hole, which I believe played to part today or 1:04:41.520 --> 1:04:43.600 maybe a little bit over. Because of the front hole 1:04:43.680 --> 1:04:45.720 location and the fact that you put the ball up 1:04:45.760 --> 1:04:47.880 in the air, it's only a gap wedge or a 1:04:48.520 --> 1:04:52.280 lob wedge. All sorts of things can happen to it. 1:04:52.360 --> 1:04:55.760 So it's a combination. And guild Hens and his team 1:04:55.760 --> 1:04:57.960 did a very good job of expanding the greens and 1:04:58.000 --> 1:05:00.760 then pushed the edges rolled out. You saw that all 1:05:00.760 --> 1:05:03.960 the time, particularly in the part three is where you 1:05:04.360 --> 1:05:07.040 and we saw this repeatedly during the week where you 1:05:07.080 --> 1:05:10.440 had to judge, you had sort of weigh the approach shots, 1:05:10.440 --> 1:05:12.240 so you landed just down the green and let it 1:05:12.320 --> 1:05:15.160 roll out. If you landed the ball too far into 1:05:15.160 --> 1:05:17.200 the green, it would roll through into the heavy rough 1:05:17.200 --> 1:05:20.640 and you'd have a very awkward downhill shot from an 1:05:20.720 --> 1:05:23.520 uncertain lie. So that's where you know a lot of 1:05:23.560 --> 1:05:26.880 shots were lost just on those pitches where you're trying 1:05:26.920 --> 1:05:29.720 to control it but you're also guessing at the lie. 1:05:29.760 --> 1:05:34.040 So all that stuff, to me was just brilliant to observe. 1:05:35.280 --> 1:05:38.600 So I'm on the record as being a little bit 1:05:38.840 --> 1:05:43.200 nostalgic for the fiasco US Open. You know, the US 1:05:43.280 --> 1:05:46.320 Open that just kind of spins out of control. There 1:05:46.320 --> 1:05:49.280 are various examples of this, the ones where the players 1:05:49.280 --> 1:05:52.200 get really angry at the course set up, when maybe 1:05:52.240 --> 1:05:55.240 the USGA loses the greens a bit at some point 1:05:55.320 --> 1:05:58.880 during the week. Those are just really entertaining. They're distinctive 1:05:59.000 --> 1:06:00.919 kind of in the world of go. There wasn't really 1:06:00.920 --> 1:06:03.880 any other tournament that could go wrong like a US 1:06:03.960 --> 1:06:07.040 Open could go wrong. And I understand why they've moved 1:06:07.040 --> 1:06:08.480 in this more professional direction. 1:06:08.640 --> 1:06:08.840 Now. 1:06:09.000 --> 1:06:12.959 They really have control of the courses now and six 1:06:13.040 --> 1:06:15.919 under has won the past three years, and so it's 1:06:15.960 --> 1:06:19.320 clear that they're shooting for a number somewhere in those 1:06:19.400 --> 1:06:23.080 kind of mid single digits under par as opposed to 1:06:23.600 --> 1:06:26.880 over par or around even par, which I believe was 1:06:26.960 --> 1:06:29.520 more the goal back in the day, maybe during the 1:06:29.520 --> 1:06:32.920 Mike Davis era, and certainly before that. And so I 1:06:32.960 --> 1:06:35.440 wonder if if you you know, given that you love 1:06:35.520 --> 1:06:37.640 the setup this week? So did I. I thought it 1:06:37.680 --> 1:06:41.000 was brilliant, but it's also representative of a kind of 1:06:41.040 --> 1:06:45.360 new phase of USGA setup. Do you share that sort 1:06:45.400 --> 1:06:49.400 of longing occasionally for a US Open that that goes 1:06:49.640 --> 1:06:52.400 really crazy or is that something that you don't look 1:06:52.440 --> 1:06:53.320 back on as fondly. 1:06:54.160 --> 1:06:57.000 No, I hate it because all it does is make 1:06:57.120 --> 1:07:00.919 for easy sheep kind of press that is uninformed about 1:07:00.920 --> 1:07:02.760 what usually goes wrong. I'll give you an example of 1:07:02.800 --> 1:07:04.480 how they manage it though. Here's a great example of 1:07:04.480 --> 1:07:07.680 the fourth hole. They've been driving over a blind to 1:07:07.840 --> 1:07:10.640 a flat fair away and then the green all four days, 1:07:10.640 --> 1:07:12.520 the pin was in the middle left. They that green 1:07:12.560 --> 1:07:14.560 slows hard right the left. They could if they put 1:07:14.560 --> 1:07:17.080 the pin on top right that we'd still be playing 1:07:17.120 --> 1:07:19.280 that round because the ball would never come to a stop. 1:07:19.360 --> 1:07:22.439 So they they're smart enough now now, and they also 1:07:22.480 --> 1:07:26.000 have moisture meters they have they know exactly what the 1:07:26.040 --> 1:07:29.200 wind is going to be they know exactly the condition 1:07:29.280 --> 1:07:32.560 of the turf in ways that they're much smarter about. 1:07:33.160 --> 1:07:36.360 I mean, to me, these sort of setups play to 1:07:36.440 --> 1:07:38.600 my strength, which is I have and I spend a 1:07:38.640 --> 1:07:41.360 lot of time with these guys. I feel for the superintendents. 1:07:41.400 --> 1:07:44.600 I've known Dave Johnson, the superintendent, I've known him for 1:07:44.680 --> 1:07:47.120 seventeen years now and worked with him. Are a couple 1:07:47.120 --> 1:07:49.720 of courses included back when he was a nine hole 1:07:49.760 --> 1:07:54.080 guy at white Nesville. So I find it more satisfying 1:07:54.120 --> 1:07:58.200 to see their skills come through. So but that's just 1:07:58.200 --> 1:08:01.840 because I'm a snob, I guess or something. You know, No. 1:08:01.880 --> 1:08:04.160 I think I think it means that it's more empathetic. 1:08:04.200 --> 1:08:04.880 I guess. 1:08:05.000 --> 1:08:07.320 Yeah, the car wrecks are kind of weird to watch, 1:08:07.360 --> 1:08:10.200 but it's not a great way to finish. I was. 1:08:10.720 --> 1:08:14.360 I was at Shinnakok in two thousand and four four 1:08:15.000 --> 1:08:19.160 and saw what happens. And the other thing is I 1:08:19.200 --> 1:08:21.439 hate it when pros complained. I'd rather give them a 1:08:21.520 --> 1:08:24.320 playing surface that they have to show their skills. And 1:08:24.800 --> 1:08:26.920 you saw that this week. Some of these guys knew 1:08:26.920 --> 1:08:29.639 that they could do it, and you know it didn't 1:08:29.680 --> 1:08:32.960 reward Bryson to Shamba style of golf. You had to 1:08:33.000 --> 1:08:35.519 control the ball, so I thought it was pretty well 1:08:35.560 --> 1:08:36.400 done in that sense. 1:08:36.800 --> 1:08:39.160 Yeah. Well, I mean I got to say it, even 1:08:39.200 --> 1:08:41.559 even though I do have a kind of affection for 1:08:41.720 --> 1:08:44.680 some of those fiasco US opens just from you know, 1:08:44.760 --> 1:08:46.680 the car wreck watching point of view, because I'm not 1:08:46.680 --> 1:08:48.599 as good of a person as you are, Brad. That's 1:08:48.880 --> 1:08:51.240 that's basically what it comes down to. You have to 1:08:51.280 --> 1:08:54.959 say that the finish today, the final round, the shootout 1:08:54.960 --> 1:09:00.559 between Xalatorus and Fitzpatrick, with Scheffler kind of poking his 1:09:00.560 --> 1:09:03.840 head in there at the end as well, completely justified 1:09:03.880 --> 1:09:07.160 this new approach that the USGA is taking where they're 1:09:07.200 --> 1:09:10.479 a bit more conservative. They're a bit more you know 1:09:10.560 --> 1:09:13.160 early in the week they kind of keep the governor 1:09:13.240 --> 1:09:16.559 on a bit. That approach has been justified by by 1:09:16.600 --> 1:09:19.559 the competition. It was really fantastic. All right, Well, I've 1:09:19.640 --> 1:09:21.639 kept you long enough here, Brad. Thank you so much 1:09:21.640 --> 1:09:24.599 for stopping by, and hope to talk to you again soon. 1:09:25.280 --> 1:09:28.479 You know, they gave me the Green Section award, Dave Johnson. 1:09:28.520 --> 1:09:31.240 If the superintendent next year at LA North doesn't get it, 1:09:31.280 --> 1:09:32.240 we'll know he's screwed up. 1:09:45.240 --> 1:09:48.280 Thank you to Nick Hardy, Paalo Yughetti, Ryan Barraff, and 1:09:48.360 --> 1:09:51.360 Bradley Klein for those interviews. What a great week at 1:09:51.360 --> 1:09:53.600 the country Club. Just one of the best majors in 1:09:53.680 --> 1:09:57.520 recent memory, and I cannot wait for the Open Championship 1:09:57.600 --> 1:10:00.879 at St. Andrews. If you've been enjoying the Friday Podcast, 1:10:01.000 --> 1:10:03.320 please do us a favor and leave a rating and 1:10:03.439 --> 1:10:06.960 review in iTunes. That's maybe the easiest way to support 1:10:07.000 --> 1:10:10.040 what we do, and it really helps us reach new listeners. 1:10:10.640 --> 1:10:13.200 That's it, Thank you for listening and we'll see you soon.