Speaker 1: Hey there, folks.
Speaker 2: It is Thursday, April sixteenth, and Eric Swalwell's defense might
Speaker 2: be starting to take shape because it stars with this
Speaker 2: regret is not rape and with that, welcome to this
Speaker 2: episode of Amy and TJ roholds. That's going to be catchy.
Speaker 2: It's going to be repeated to regret is not rape.
Speaker 2: His attorney is speaking, his defense attorney, and she seems
Speaker 2: to be going after a particular line of defense.
Speaker 3: Yes, she is categorically denying that Eric Swalwall ever, ever
Speaker 3: participated in non consensual sex. And so she's talking about
Speaker 3: specifically two of the women who have come forward who
Speaker 3: have talked about rape, saying years later, she's basically painting
Speaker 3: a picture that yes, maybe they were in a relationship
Speaker 3: at a time, maybe they regretted having sex with him,
Speaker 3: and this is what now they're saying based on those feelings.
Speaker 4: And that's a powerful statement. That is catchy.
Speaker 1: You know what what But yeah, oh yeah, the regret rape.
Speaker 2: But we just heard her, and yes, he does have
Speaker 2: a female attorney out there publicly defending him for Robes
Speaker 2: to hear her.
Speaker 1: She's doing her job, first of all, she's a defense streight.
Speaker 2: But Robes, when when you talk about, and you hear
Speaker 2: about and so much reporting about women not being believed
Speaker 2: when they tell their stories. To hear this woman kind
Speaker 2: of just knocking it down completely, almost dismiss him. Maybe
Speaker 2: you were in a relationship and you had some shame,
Speaker 2: or maybe you weren't supposed to this, or maybe she
Speaker 2: suggested all of these things that kind of flippantly dismissed
Speaker 2: what has been a week of hemous details being released.
Speaker 3: What these women are describing is is not just rape,
Speaker 3: but violent rape. We're not talking about and I hate
Speaker 3: to even try to put a category of rape, like, oh,
Speaker 3: just a nonder sensual, I'm barely awake, I don't know
Speaker 3: what happened. No, we're describing, or we're hearing being described
Speaker 3: choking to the point of losing consciousness, feeling like you're
Speaker 3: going to die. The former staffer saying she had bruises
Speaker 3: and bleeding, so.
Speaker 4: This wasn't just you know, he said.
Speaker 3: She said, these accusations are incredibly serious, and she did
Speaker 3: recognize that. She said, what's being leveled or levied against
Speaker 3: him is certainly very serious, but she questions the seriousness
Speaker 3: of the claims themselves.
Speaker 2: Okay, let's start with who this attorney is. Her name
Speaker 2: is Sarah Azeri. She is now representing Eric Swalwell. She
Speaker 2: has done a couple of media appearances, but Rose has started.
Speaker 2: She did put out a statement on X This was
Speaker 2: really the first indication. But Rose, they're making clear here
Speaker 2: and I think in her interview she's making clear that
Speaker 2: he's saying, yes, he had sex.
Speaker 1: With these women.
Speaker 2: Correct, But that's a first that we're hearing. He's only
Speaker 2: said before I've made mistakes.
Speaker 3: Yes, he hasn't gotten too specific about that, and he's
Speaker 3: apologized first and foremost to his family in any statement
Speaker 3: he's made, and then his constituents.
Speaker 4: But this is what his attorney had to say.
Speaker 3: Congressman Eric Swalwell categorically and unequivocally denies each and every
Speaker 3: allegation of sexual misconduct and assault that has been leveled
Speaker 3: against him. These accusations are false, fabricated, and deeply offensive,
Speaker 3: a calculated and transparent political hit job designed to destroy
Speaker 3: the reputation of a man who has spent twenty years
Speaker 3: in public service.
Speaker 2: Qut I went back every he denies every allegation of
Speaker 2: sexual misconduct, correct, everything, not just am I reading this
Speaker 2: the way he's saying, where you are that everything that's
Speaker 2: been put out there, not just the rapes.
Speaker 3: Yes, and they're basically saying that they think this was
Speaker 3: a co coordinated, calculated, political, politically motivated hit job to
Speaker 3: make sure he did not become California's next governor. Okay,
Speaker 3: she goes on to say, yes, the timing nature and
Speaker 3: coordinated rollout of these vile and heinous allegations speak for themselves.
Speaker 3: This is neither about justice nor the truth. This is
Speaker 3: a ruthless and shameless attack or attempt to smear Congressman Swallwell.
Speaker 1: Former Congressman Swallwell.
Speaker 4: That's actually a very good point.
Speaker 3: Congressman Swalwell has devoted his career to defending the Constitution,
Speaker 3: protecting civil liberties, and standing up to those who abuse power.
Speaker 3: He has never wavered in that fight, and he will
Speaker 3: not waver now. We will fight these despicable and baseless
Speaker 3: accusations with the same tenacity, courage, and conviction that has
Speaker 3: defined the Congressman's public service. You know she was talking
Speaker 3: about how he was a former prosecutor.
Speaker 4: I actually didn't know that. That's fascinating, dude, Lawyer.
Speaker 2: Even one of the I can't remember which one it was,
Speaker 2: who said they feared him, and that was a part
Speaker 2: of it.
Speaker 1: It's like this guy used to be a prosecutor. He
Speaker 1: knows law. But yeah, this. I was surprised by that.
Speaker 2: Paragraph from the statement because it almost signs him up
Speaker 2: as a hero. It almost right says, oh, no, this
Speaker 2: is a fighter. He has been standing up whether he's
Speaker 2: going to key. I thought that was a it was
Speaker 2: a choice.
Speaker 3: It's funny you say that because she actually said I believe.
Speaker 4: Listening to her make the rounds on the media, she used.
Speaker 3: Words first of all, that she fully believes him, and
Speaker 3: second because not all lawyers say that, and second that
Speaker 3: she was proud of him, that she was proud of
Speaker 3: him for putting his constituents first, his family first, and
Speaker 3: by stepping down from office as a congressman and stepping
Speaker 3: out of the race. Did not imply or mean in
Speaker 3: any way, shape or form that he was admitting guilt
Speaker 3: to committing any of these acts, but merely acknowledging what
Speaker 3: a distraction this was. How could he possibly continue to
Speaker 3: run for governor? How could he possibly serve his constituents
Speaker 3: if he's fighting all of these attacks. So yes, almost
Speaker 3: as if he took one for the team. Yes, that
Speaker 3: he was basically sacrificing his own political ambitions for the
Speaker 3: better of Californians.
Speaker 4: That's basically what.
Speaker 1: She was saying, and it was interesting.
Speaker 2: I mean, this tact seems to be not just a
Speaker 2: matter of keeping him out of jail, but also possibly
Speaker 2: getting him back into the good graces of some voter
Speaker 2: at some point down the road. I just thought it
Speaker 2: was interesting that she went fully in that direction.
Speaker 1: The interview. I mean, the statement is one thing. I thought.
Speaker 2: A bunch of the things she said in the interview.
Speaker 2: Who do we see it with News Nation this week?
Speaker 1: Was interesting?
Speaker 2: Well, first of all, we should say we shouldn't be
Speaker 2: hearing anything else from him.
Speaker 1: She did say she advised.
Speaker 2: Him not to speak, so don't expect any more comments
Speaker 2: from him. She talked about this being two consenting adults.
Speaker 2: This is significant that this would be and I'm not
Speaker 2: reading Tea Leaves here. This is her acknowledging for the
Speaker 2: first time that yes, in fact, aren't isn't he She
Speaker 2: suggesting Robes that in both instances, that the incidents having
Speaker 2: to do with his staffer and the instance having to
Speaker 2: do with a woman who just came forward this week,
Speaker 2: that he is admitting to sexual relationships with both of
Speaker 2: these women.
Speaker 3: It sounded that way because she said, I don't care
Speaker 3: if you like him. I don't care if you are
Speaker 3: passing judgment because of inappropriate sex or immoral sex. The
Speaker 3: issue that we're talking about here is whether it was
Speaker 3: unconsensual sex, criminal sex, and you know, two adults consenting,
Speaker 3: which is our position, is not against the law. And
Speaker 3: so what I say to jurors, I'm going to tell
Speaker 3: your audience. And this is where she said, regret is
Speaker 3: not rape. So it seems like in that statement alone,
Speaker 3: there is an absolute acknowledgment that he had sex. And
Speaker 3: I just thought it was interesting because she talked about
Speaker 3: inappropriate or immoral maybe out of wedlock. Yeah, that must
Speaker 3: have been what she meant, because I was wondering, even
Speaker 3: with these allegations of choking, if maybe they're going to
Speaker 3: claim that these women liked it rough or were.
Speaker 4: Into that kind of sex.
Speaker 3: That's where I was thinking, is she going to even
Speaker 3: go there or even kind of imply that somehow this
Speaker 3: was an agreed upon activity between the two And the
Speaker 3: problem with that is it is a he said, that
Speaker 3: is no proof, Like, how do you know all all
Speaker 3: we can say is We saw that press conference and
Speaker 3: it was pretty damn compelling.
Speaker 2: But a part of that press conference road, we heard
Speaker 2: a lot about receipts. We heard a lot about them
Speaker 2: having documentation, heard a lot about the woman making handwritten
Speaker 2: notes about what she went through the documentation, about the
Speaker 2: woman going to a treatment facility to get help for
Speaker 2: dealing with sexual assault.
Speaker 1: We heard about it.
Speaker 2: So many receipts that they have, well, ording to Swallow's attorney,
Speaker 2: they got receipts to stay here, all right, we continue
Speaker 2: here on Amy and TJ. Eric Swalwell's defense starting to
Speaker 2: take shape. Regret is not rape is the stance his
Speaker 2: attorney is taking ropes. I don't know what she could
Speaker 2: have been suggesting in her interview in what she said.
Speaker 2: I mean, she was pretty defiant. They got receipts. We
Speaker 2: got receipts too, But she didn't elaborate.
Speaker 3: Well and we did hear earlier from at least folks
Speaker 3: who were defending Eric Swalwell.
Speaker 4: In the beginning, just talks about talking about the text.
Speaker 3: Messages after the fact, after the alleged incidents happened, and
Speaker 3: that always usually is something that people try to say,
Speaker 3: is their receipt but actually people will tell you that's
Speaker 3: pretty common from people who have been sexually abused.
Speaker 2: And she does, I mean Sarah the staffer, the former
Speaker 2: staffer that we're talking about, she in fact.
Speaker 1: Did, and they say they have it.
Speaker 2: It's documented that she spoke to friends, spoke to family members,
Speaker 2: the woman in La and keep saying the.
Speaker 1: Woman in La.
Speaker 4: We know her name, Lota dress at.
Speaker 2: DRIs, same thing she said, not just that treatment facility
Speaker 2: in Connecticut. I believe it was Rose, but she has
Speaker 2: as well said she reached out to family members and
Speaker 2: said what had happened to her? So we haven't seen
Speaker 2: that stuff. They're just saying they have this stuff. I
Speaker 2: don't know what Eric Swolwell could could offer to refute that,
Speaker 2: other than what old text messages.
Speaker 3: Well, probably the niceties back and forth, maybe them thanking him. Look,
Speaker 3: Harvey Weinstein tried the same ploy to say, hey, look
Speaker 3: after the fact, after they claim I did all these
Speaker 3: terrible things to them, which I'm saying was consensual. Look
Speaker 3: at all the texts and emails they sent me thanking me,
Speaker 3: inviting me to their wedding. So that has been tried
Speaker 3: and used before, and it hasn't necessarily worked. Into the
Speaker 3: advantage of the person being accused of rich you.
Speaker 2: Know now that you remind me of it. It's almost
Speaker 2: like the first defense. If it's say, look at all
Speaker 2: these nice things, who would say that if I had
Speaker 2: abused the.
Speaker 3: Correction, why would they come back? Why would they ask
Speaker 3: me out for a drink? Why would they keep you
Speaker 3: returning to see me and want me to be a
Speaker 3: part of their lives. But again, you have a lot
Speaker 3: of psychologists will testify that this is extremely common. So
Speaker 3: it hasn't worked, at least in the trials that we
Speaker 3: have witnessed that that line of defense doesn't typically work.
Speaker 3: And look, we don't know yet what the Los Angeles
Speaker 3: County Sheriff's Department is going to do, what the New
Speaker 3: York the Manhattan District Attorney's office is going to do,
Speaker 3: but we do know that those investigations are ongoing. And
Speaker 3: you see his attorney trying to say, let this all
Speaker 3: play out in the actual course, not the court of
Speaker 3: public opinion. We're not going to win in the court
Speaker 3: of public opinion. And she is right because at this point,
Speaker 3: hearing these women's accounts, hearing especially Lana Drew's, put her
Speaker 3: name and face to it and really go through the
Speaker 3: details of what she says she suffered.
Speaker 4: That is hard to.
Speaker 3: Go up against, certainly when it comes to what people
Speaker 3: and especially women might be thinking when they hear these
Speaker 3: other women so powerfully tell their story.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and to hear it, and it was the most
Speaker 2: difficult part for me to hear. And I bet a
Speaker 2: lot of survivors had a difficult time with it too.
Speaker 2: And I don't know if it should make a difference
Speaker 2: that it was a woman saying it, but Rope, we
Speaker 2: have been hearing a bunch of difficult, awful stories from
Speaker 2: quite frankly credible sounding women.
Speaker 1: And as they give that detail and we talk about
Speaker 1: bravery and coming forward.
Speaker 2: You talk about Lanna Druis out drews out in California
Speaker 2: and all it took, and we watched the pain on
Speaker 2: her face. And now here's another woman out there publicly saying,
Speaker 2: maybe you had a boyfriend, maybe you weren't supposed to
Speaker 2: do this, maybe you felt some shame. Later Ropes, that
Speaker 2: moment is something that women experience and survivors experience when
Speaker 2: they watch TV over the years and they see debates
Speaker 2: online that has to sting and hurt like hell. Robes
Speaker 2: we have seen these incredible stories and to have somebody
Speaker 2: else just come out and say they're explaining your story
Speaker 2: away by simply saying you were dating somebody probably didn't
Speaker 2: want to get caught cheating. Ah, maybe you just felt
Speaker 2: some shame later. And it was so easily dismissive robes
Speaker 2: of some pretty incredible stories.
Speaker 3: And that is why women don't come forward. That is
Speaker 3: why you hear this rallying cry that moment. If women
Speaker 3: say something happened, believe them because that line of argument
Speaker 3: and discrediting victims and going then into their personal lives,
Speaker 3: seeing how they may have acted or dressed or spoke, like,
Speaker 3: everything about their lives and how they conducted themselves suddenly
Speaker 3: is under incredible scrutiny. And that weight of that scrutiny
Speaker 3: sometimes is just too much for victims to bear, and
Speaker 3: a lot of women choose not to come forward. So
Speaker 3: I do think it's pretty remarkable when you have someone
Speaker 3: put their face, put their name, and tell their story
Speaker 3: in front of cameras and do so eloquently.
Speaker 4: I mean, she that is brave. That is not a
Speaker 4: fun position to.
Speaker 3: Be and you are now going to be scrutinized to
Speaker 3: a level you probably can't even imagine, and that is
Speaker 3: why she probably didn't go to police until now. But
Speaker 3: no statute of limitations on her allegations in the state
Speaker 3: of California. And so look at this point now we
Speaker 3: are waiting for the investigative process to go through and
Speaker 3: these receipts that everyone says they have, well, the good
Speaker 3: news is that is in the hands of police and
Speaker 3: the district attorney's offices and each locale. They will make
Speaker 3: the decision whether or not there is enough evidence to
Speaker 3: press charges against Eric Swalwell, but certainly his attorney trying
Speaker 3: to get in front of it and telling a much
Speaker 3: different story than the ones we are hearing from those women.
Speaker 3: We will, of course stay on top of this developing,
Speaker 3: developing story with Eric Swalwell. But as always, thank you
Speaker 3: so much for listening to us.
Speaker 4: Everybody. I'm Ami Robock alongside TJ. Holmes. We'll talk to
Speaker 4: you soon.
Speaker 1: Ramptation Thetation