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Speaker 1: Ephemeral is a production of five heart three D audio.

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Speaker 1: For full exposure, listen with that phones. The last night

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Speaker 1: I saw a flying obdue they couldn't have possibly been

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Speaker 1: from this planet. But I can't say a word. A

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Speaker 1: muzzled by Amy Brass, I can't even min I saw

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Speaker 1: that they On the last episode of Ephemeral, we explored

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Speaker 1: the illustrious career of filmmaker Edward D. Wood Jr. We

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Speaker 1: looked at Wood's most famous films, including Plan Nine from

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Speaker 1: Outer Space and Bride of the Monster, and we debated

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Speaker 1: the inherent quality of Wood's output and how much that

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Speaker 1: even matters. Here. Our producer Trevor Young picks up the story.

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Speaker 1: Edward filmed Plan nine from Outer Space in nineteen fifty six,

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Speaker 1: but I wouldn't premiere until three years later in nineteen

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Speaker 1: fifty nine. In the meantime, Wood directed my personal favorite

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Speaker 1: of his Night of the Ghouls. Through my powers of

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Speaker 1: the supernatural, I and I alone can bring him to

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Speaker 1: this room tonight, from that place in the deep blackness

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Speaker 1: of death from which no visitors to return, where the

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Speaker 1: sun is seen to rise, the sun is seen to set,

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Speaker 1: where the gracious Moon comes from the east and its

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Speaker 1: long journey across the night sky to the west Wingate Foster,

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Speaker 1: through the powers of doctor Actula, will again be permitted

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Speaker 1: to walk. Here's Bill Shoot, author and professor of English

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Speaker 1: at San Antonio College. In some ways, the companion piece

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Speaker 1: to Plan nine, Night of the Ghouls is even more surreal,

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Speaker 1: though it's not as well known because it did not

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Speaker 1: get a theatrical release. It wasn't released until the VHS

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Speaker 1: era in the eighties. When my children were young, I

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Speaker 1: had the VHS tape of that and they requested to

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Speaker 1: watch it over and over again when they were like

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Speaker 1: ten years old, and I think my children have watched

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Speaker 1: it ten or fifteen times. The story behind that film's

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Speaker 1: delayed release is an interesting one. Apparently, Edward had failed

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Speaker 1: to pay the laboratory that developed the negatives for the film,

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Speaker 1: so the laboratory stowed the film away until Edward paid

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Speaker 1: the fees, but he never did so it sat in

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Speaker 1: a warehouse for twenty five years until super fan Wade

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Speaker 1: Williams paid the bill himself and released the movie on

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Speaker 1: VHS tape into Despite the issues with that film, Edward

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Speaker 1: carried on and kept writing scripts. In nineteen sixty Wood

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Speaker 1: wrote and directed The Sinister Urge. Well, what's happened now?

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Speaker 1: Least rated Jaffee Studio. That again they picked up Lila, Sally,

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Speaker 1: Carol Jaffee, the whole crowd who took them Our old friend,

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Speaker 1: Lieutenant Matt Carson. Oh boy, something's going to have to

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Speaker 1: be done about him. As we move into the nineteen sixties,

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Speaker 1: he did direct The Sinister Urge, which is a kind

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Speaker 1: of sex crime oriented film. It's really an early kind

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Speaker 1: of slasher film in some ways, although you could only

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Speaker 1: go so far without in ninety two, but it also

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Speaker 1: was a sex exploitation film in that it dealt with

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Speaker 1: as it was called by the police and the film

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Speaker 1: the dirty picture Racket, the smut picture racket. I read

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Speaker 1: in the morning paper where the police departments we signed

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Speaker 1: a special detail to clear up this silly dirty picture business.

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Speaker 1: That was the last I guess we'd say, mainstream film

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Speaker 1: directed by Edwood. This became a big turning point in

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Speaker 1: what's career keeping and to write more exploitation material in

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Speaker 1: the form of both screenplays and novels. As softcore sex

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Speaker 1: films came in in the sixties, he wrote and later

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Speaker 1: directed films of that sort. Orgy of the Dead, based

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Speaker 1: on one of his novels, was a classic. Although he

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Speaker 1: did not direct that, he wrote it. He was on

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Speaker 1: the set and it has a very Edward ambiance to it. Ah,

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Speaker 1: the curiosity of you on the road to ruin? May

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Speaker 1: it ever be so adventurous? It's so frightened? Well, we

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Speaker 1: certainly can't stay here. Come on where in there? It

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Speaker 1: frightens me silly? There's nothing in there to be afraid? Dog?

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Speaker 1: Then then what's that music? That's what I want to

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Speaker 1: find out? And as the sixties moved on, he moved

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Speaker 1: into the sex film and also sex writing fe He

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Speaker 1: in a way was a pioneer of that in that

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Speaker 1: he moved into the hardcore eight millimeter loops. People who

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Speaker 1: are historians of West Coast Horn have pointed out that

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Speaker 1: one of the series that he was involved with, the

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Speaker 1: Swedish Erotica, was a very pioneering series, and Ed directed

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Speaker 1: a number of those loops. Eventually, Wood moved away from

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Speaker 1: directing movies and focused on his adult content. Ed wrote

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Speaker 1: a lot of sex oriented novels and short stories and

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Speaker 1: also non fiction prose, and that's how he paid the bills.

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Speaker 1: There are at least seventy five if not a hundred

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Speaker 1: novels that he wrote, often under pseudonyms, but he kept

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Speaker 1: a record of those works and was proud of those

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Speaker 1: works and gave signed copies of them to friends. And

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Speaker 1: they're quite interesting field for people to read. I don't

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Speaker 1: know that people want to read seventy five of them,

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Speaker 1: but you could easily acquire a handful of them. There's

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Speaker 1: some collections of the short stories that are available, and

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Speaker 1: all of the qualities that people like about his films

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Speaker 1: really are there in his writings. Also, as Edward moved

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Speaker 1: away from filmmaking throughout the sixties and seventies, his personal

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Speaker 1: life also started to change. Here's family friends, Bob Blackburn,

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Speaker 1: who knew Cathy would as widow. They were both alcoholics,

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Speaker 1: and I'm not afraid to say that because it's the

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Speaker 1: honest truth. And even when I knew her, she was

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Speaker 1: still drinking. There's people and their stories that the two

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Speaker 1: of them were kind of like the battling Bickerson's like

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Speaker 1: when they were both in their cups and a little

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Speaker 1: bit trunk, that things would fly and they could get

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Speaker 1: physical at times. Bob tells us that would shift into pornography.

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Speaker 1: Is a double edged sword. He was good at it,

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Speaker 1: and there was money there, but it was also something

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Speaker 1: that would was forced into, largely by his inability to

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Speaker 1: make it in Hollywood as a traditional filmmaker. A lot

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Speaker 1: of people don't realize that Edward was a porn pioneer

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Speaker 1: working for Bernie Bloom for Pendulum Publishing in starting like

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Speaker 1: in the nineteen sixty nine and then his heyday in

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Speaker 1: the early seventies. He was writing the short stories and

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Speaker 1: he was writing the articles. He was also writing some

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Speaker 1: of the editorials. He was writing a lot of the

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Speaker 1: descriptions for the pictorial layouts, you know, for the girls.

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Speaker 1: You know, they had to have a little story or

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Speaker 1: fantasy for the guys presumably who were buying the magazines

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Speaker 1: and the drinking increased, so they because they include Cathy

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Speaker 1: and this, they were kind of in a downward spiral.

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Speaker 1: These years were tough on the Woods. Ed was struggling

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Speaker 1: to find work and money was inconsistent. They moved around

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Speaker 1: a lot. They actually bought a house out in North Hollywood,

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Speaker 1: and once the house was repossessed and their cars got

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Speaker 1: repossessed just because they couldn't make the bills. They had

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Speaker 1: to put a lot of their furniture and personal artifacts

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Speaker 1: and storage. They couldn't pay that that got sold off,

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Speaker 1: So a lot of Ed's memorabilia got sold off, went

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Speaker 1: to a collector, a couple of collectors, and actually ended

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Speaker 1: up being bought about seven or eight years ago by

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Speaker 1: the step nephew of Paul Marco, a guy named Jason

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Speaker 1: in Sulaco who lives here in l A. And he

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Speaker 1: bought what we called the trunk, which had all of

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Speaker 1: ed scrap books and a bunch of memorabilia. I was

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Speaker 1: attempted to a bid on it myself. He went for

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Speaker 1: about thirteen thousand dollars plus the fees plus the ship.

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Speaker 1: Being so but they kind of were always one step

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Speaker 1: ahead of the landlord when they moved into their apartment

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Speaker 1: right up here on Yucka's Street, where they lived for

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Speaker 1: the last four or five years of Ed's life. By

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Speaker 1: December of nineteen seventy eight, they were in arrears of

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Speaker 1: six months worth of rent, and on the morning of

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Speaker 1: December seven, they were forcibly evicted from their apartment they're

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Speaker 1: on at on the street. All their possessions, like file

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Speaker 1: cabinets that Ed had. I heard, you know, rumors of

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Speaker 1: a bail Legosi biography that he was working on called

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Speaker 1: Lugosi Postmortem. That could have been something in there. All

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Speaker 1: they had was a close on their back and a

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Speaker 1: little tiny leather suitcase that held some personal papers. Unfortunately

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Speaker 1: not that manuscript, but they did have the manuscript for

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Speaker 1: Hollywood rat Race, as well as a shooting script for

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Speaker 1: Ed's Pride and Joy called I Woke Up Early the

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Speaker 1: Day I Died, which was a film which actually ended

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Speaker 1: up getting made in the late nineteen nineties, but it

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Speaker 1: never technically released. A friend of theirs, an actor friend

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Speaker 1: of theirs named Peter co said he would come get

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Speaker 1: them and brought them back to his apartment up in

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Speaker 1: North Hollywood, and three days later, on Sunday, the tenth

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Speaker 1: Ed was in a bedroom feeling bad. There's I guess

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Speaker 1: the TV with a football game on, and Kathy and

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Speaker 1: Peter and a couple of other friends were in the

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Speaker 1: living room having drinks, and one of their friends went

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Speaker 1: in the bedroom that had was sleeping in or lane

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Speaker 1: and with the game on, and he had passed away.

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Speaker 1: So she came out and said, Hey, I think Eddie's died.

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Speaker 1: They all went in there to look, and in fact

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Speaker 1: he was, and Cathy said his eyes were open as

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Speaker 1: if he'd seen death. Edward D. Wood Jr. Died on

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Speaker 1: December tenth, and it seemed as though the sad story

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Speaker 1: of Edwood had come to a close. But just a

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Speaker 1: couple of years later, Wood's story would reach millions of

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Speaker 1: new people and he would finally get the fame he desired.

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Speaker 1: For most of his life, Wood's work was somewhat underground

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Speaker 1: or obscure, but after his death he started to gain

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Speaker 1: a little more popularity. Some of this stuff was starting

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Speaker 1: to get known a little bit among collectors, you know,

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Speaker 1: a hardcore cult movie film buffs, video tapes were starting

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Speaker 1: to come in a little bit, maybe just a hair

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Speaker 1: later in early eighties, but there was an underground collector

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Speaker 1: circuit that would, you know, trade here's robot monster. Here,

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Speaker 1: I'll trade you to Edward Films for you know, this

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Speaker 1: streaming sheet creature or whatever. But then came Edward's big

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Speaker 1: break in the Medved Brothers published their book The Golden

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Speaker 1: Turkey Awards, naming ed Wood the worst director and his

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Speaker 1: film Planned nine from Outer Space the worst movie of

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Speaker 1: all time. That one look started that whole ball rolling.

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Speaker 1: I don't think we'd be sitting here talking right now

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Speaker 1: with that book handic and that because I don't think

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Speaker 1: ed ever would have gotten a notoriety that he has, because,

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Speaker 1: for one, the Tim Burton film would never gotten made

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Speaker 1: with that that book. The fame of that medved Brother's book,

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Speaker 1: like the influence of that cannot be underestimated. I would

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Speaker 1: say millions of people watched Plan nine because of that,

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Speaker 1: and that means that it was kind of cemented into

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Speaker 1: the cannon in a way that few other movies happen.

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Speaker 1: That was writer Katherine Coldron, who we talked to last episode.

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Speaker 1: Intentional or not, Edward became a household name almost overnight.

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Speaker 1: Suddenly Edward films were everywhere, movie theaters, video stores, on TV.

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Speaker 1: Here's bill shoot the kind of worst film of all time,

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Speaker 1: Golden Turkey Thing. I was never a fan of that.

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Speaker 1: I never liked the con to say mentioned in that,

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Speaker 1: But I have a feeling that ed Wood was around

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Speaker 1: long enough that he had the attitude that if they

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Speaker 1: spell the name right, any publicity is good publicity. He

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Speaker 1: certainly was a man who had a sense of humor.

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Speaker 1: Am I happy that that happened, Well, if it makes

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Speaker 1: the film is well known, I'm very happy that it happened,

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Speaker 1: And I'm glad that he has been rediscovered. The fact

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Speaker 1: that Edward is famous for making What's you Know? Been

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Speaker 1: called the worst movie of all time. I don't know

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Speaker 1: if that's the legacy that he would have chosen, but

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Speaker 1: I do think that he must be very happy that

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Speaker 1: people have watched his movie in such enormous droves. Kathy

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Speaker 1: always used to say, Eddie would have loved the attention.

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Speaker 1: He would have been out there, he would have been

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Speaker 1: appearing at everything in talking and he would have It

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Speaker 1: would have given him a new hope in a new life.

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Speaker 1: As Bill tells us, the revival was good timing because

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Speaker 1: the eighties saw a huge boom in cult films and

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Speaker 1: physical media collectors. You had fanzines and magazines like Psychotronic Video, Watchdog,

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Speaker 1: The Phantom of the Movies, and many of the other

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Speaker 1: folks of that sort. You had vhs. You had Rhino

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Speaker 1: video with catalogs in hand. I wonder through these sacred decades,

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Speaker 1: be it rock and Roll, Country, Rhythm and Blue Comedy,

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Speaker 1: Children's Fair, or the Unravaged Home Video, Oh Sweet Rhino,

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Speaker 1: Virtuous Rhino, you had the early days of something Weird video,

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Speaker 1: and you had people like Elvira with her television show.

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Speaker 1: Hello darling, it's me Elvira and Mistress of the Dark.

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Speaker 1: That video cutie who makes the boys stand up and Saluti. Well,

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Speaker 1: it's time to reach into the old vault for today's

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Speaker 1: video treasure boy talking about scraping the bottom of the barrel.

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Speaker 1: It smells like a really ripe one. Let's see it's

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Speaker 1: killers from space. Oh yeah, right, well, I'll just stick

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Speaker 1: this where the sun does shine. No, not there in

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Speaker 1: the DCR. I'm sorry that Edward passed away when he did,

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Speaker 1: of course, I'm sorry he passed away at all. But

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Speaker 1: had he lived into the eighties, I have no doubt

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Speaker 1: that he would have thrived in the straight to video

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Speaker 1: market of the eighties. He certainly know how to make

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Speaker 1: a slasher film. The Sinister Urge from the early sixties,

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Speaker 1: with a little more explicit violence and sex and shot

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Speaker 1: in color would have been a perfect low budget slasher film.

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Speaker 1: And some of the straight to video things were made

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Speaker 1: for five thousand dollars during that period. So I think

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Speaker 1: that there are people who admired Edwood, who put a

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Speaker 1: qut of perhaps gotten him set up in that world,

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Speaker 1: and then he could have gotten into the world of

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Speaker 1: the conventions the way that someone like Herschel, Gordon Lewis

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Speaker 1: and Ray Dennis Steckler, these people were able to benefit

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Speaker 1: from the renewed interest in their work. Edward could have

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Speaker 1: had a successful second career during the eighties and nineties

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Speaker 1: had he lived, and who knows what kind of works

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Speaker 1: he could have created there. So I think that's a

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Speaker 1: horrible lost opportunity because of his passing at a relatively

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Speaker 1: young age, and we can just dream about the things

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Speaker 1: he could have created had he lived longer. And it

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Speaker 1: didn't stop there. Here's Bob Blackburn again, and all of

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Speaker 1: a sudden people started discovering a few of his other

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Speaker 1: films like Glennard Linda or Ride to the Monsters, and

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Speaker 1: they started having the college screenings like U c. L

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Speaker 1: A Film school had a screening like an eighty one

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Speaker 1: or eighty two. Now when you're in college, I used

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Speaker 1: to see the Marks Brothers films because that was like

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Speaker 1: in the late sixties orly seventies, like they were screening

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Speaker 1: Duck Soup and Horse Feathers and all because you get

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Speaker 1: high and you go to watch these funny Marks Brothers movies.

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Speaker 1: So they were doing the same thing with this on

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Speaker 1: college campuses, get high and watch Edwood movies, which I'm

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Speaker 1: sure led to the so bad it's good and so

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Speaker 1: that it's hilarious moments because you're stone and you're watching

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Speaker 1: Plan nine and it doesn't make sense, and you're going, well,

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Speaker 1: wait a minute, is that a shower curtain? What? You know? What? What?

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Speaker 1: It's daytime, it's nighttime, it's daytime, it's nighttime. Are those hubcaps?

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Speaker 1: What the heck is that? But I think some people

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Speaker 1: started taking Ed's work a little bit more seriously than that.

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Speaker 1: They started discovering things in it that they went, well,

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Speaker 1: wait a minute, there's more here than what appears on

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Speaker 1: the screen. The more they found out about Ed, the

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Speaker 1: deeper the film's got, and it just kind of snowballed

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Speaker 1: a little bit for people that took a bit of

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Speaker 1: a more serious approach to filmmaking in general. To odd

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Speaker 1: tours had just been called that. One of the Edwards

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Speaker 1: super fans from this period was Rudolph Gray, who wrote

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Speaker 1: an extensive biography called Nightmare of Ecstasy, The Life and

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Speaker 1: Work of Edward D. Wood, Jr. Released in It was

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Speaker 1: the first time that Ed's personal story had been made

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Speaker 1: public and widely available, and it got noticed. Soon a

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Speaker 1: bio pick about Wood's life was in the works at

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Speaker 1: Columbia Pictures. The director was Tim Burton, famous for films

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Speaker 1: like Edward Scissor Hands, Joyce. I just saw a strange

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Speaker 1: did you get a good look at and Beetle Juice?

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Speaker 1: You help me? Look how much you might call Nila?

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Speaker 1: And Okay, I want out for good. In order for

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Speaker 1: me to do that, Hey, I gotta get married. Hey,

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Speaker 1: these are my roles? Come to think of it, I

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Speaker 1: don't have any roles. And Johnny Depp was cast to

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Speaker 1: portray Edwood. Mr Legos, why are you buying a com

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Speaker 1: planning on dying? So? No, that's title of Cities and

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Speaker 1: ten Days. If that's conceivable. Do you know that I

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Speaker 1: saw you performed Dracula into Keepsie. That was a terrible production.

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Speaker 1: I thought it was great. You know you're you're much

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Speaker 1: scarier in real life and you're in the movie. The

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Speaker 1: film was being written by screenwriters Larry Karazowski and Scott Alexander.

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Speaker 1: I recently attended a Q and A with Karazowski at

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Speaker 1: the Secret Movie Club in l A, where he talked

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Speaker 1: about the process. We didn't want to make Edward a

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Speaker 1: figure of of laughter. Uh, nothing's worse than me see

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Speaker 1: a movie about like bad filmmakers and they're they're they're

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Speaker 1: they're purposely trying to make them bad. Befo Wars. Edward

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00:20:00,800 --> 00:20:04,600
Speaker 1: was always meant to be a figure of giggles. It

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Speaker 1: was always like the worst filmmaker of all time, the

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00:20:07,320 --> 00:20:09,520
Speaker 1: worst film festival of all time, There's all that kind

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Speaker 1: of stuff. Maybe part of it was we had made

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Speaker 1: a film before this is called Problem Child, which got

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Speaker 1: the worst reviews of all time, and so we we

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Speaker 1: we sort of went into the this a little more sympathetically.

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Speaker 1: We're like, what if you don't make fun of that,

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Speaker 1: but celebrate in the weird way and celebrate his passion

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Speaker 1: and celebrate the fact that he actually was a successful filmmaker.

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Speaker 1: He had a vision, he had a passion, and he

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Speaker 1: got that passion up on the screen. That heartfelt story

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Speaker 1: is what attracted Tim Burton. Tim Burton sort of became

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Speaker 1: curious about this movie when it was just just like

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Speaker 1: literally a three page treatment, And when we met with him,

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Speaker 1: we literally just said Ed and bella love story, because

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Speaker 1: for us, that what it was all about, much like

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Speaker 1: the friendship between Bella Legosti and ed Wood. Tim Burton

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Speaker 1: had a father early relationship with Vincent Price. He saw

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Speaker 1: in me a persona of the unreal, somebody who he

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Speaker 1: knew was a guy named Vincent Price, and that intrigued him.

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Speaker 1: He wanted to identify with somebody who was real but unreal,

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Speaker 1: and so the filmmakers agreed on making that place of

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Speaker 1: empathy central to the film. The movie titled ed Wood

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Speaker 1: Premier to you control everyone's fature like the puppet master.

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Speaker 1: So I pull up, Yes, you pull the string, pull

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Speaker 1: the strings. I liked that I was able to ask

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Speaker 1: Larry how accurate they thought Depth's portrayal of Edward really was,

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Speaker 1: and if he was actually as eccentric as he seems

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Speaker 1: in the movie. When you talked to the people who

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Speaker 1: worked with Edwood, they talked about what just he would

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Speaker 1: call him up at one of the Plan nines on

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Speaker 1: you Gotta Get Up. He was always this enthusiastic cheerleader,

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Speaker 1: and obviously he had to be that person, uh, in

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Speaker 1: order to get these I think he made something like

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Speaker 1: nine movies you know, as a director, made because he

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00:22:11,000 --> 00:22:13,480
Speaker 1: was just like you know, he created this whole little

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Speaker 1: family of people who she believed in him and he

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Speaker 1: believed in them, and in all fairness, most of these

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Speaker 1: people no one ever believed in them ever, So I

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Speaker 1: don't think we were dishonest in anyway whatsoever. It was

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Speaker 1: he Johnny Depp. I'm not sure he's Johnny Depp, but

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Speaker 1: that being said, one of the best days on the set.

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Speaker 1: This is actually a great story and it kind of relates,

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Speaker 1: kind of doesn't. But um, we were shooting on Hollywood

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Speaker 1: bullets off a Hollywood bull of the Muslim Frank scene.

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Speaker 1: One of our crew members came over. I wasn't even there.

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Speaker 1: One of the crew members came over to Scott and said,

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Speaker 1: there's this woman over there waiting for the bus. And

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Speaker 1: she said she was married to Ed. And Scott was like, what,

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Speaker 1: what the hell and she was She's literally carrying like

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Speaker 1: bottles of boots and things. And it went over and

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Speaker 1: it was Cathy Would. And none of us had met

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Speaker 1: Cathy Would at that point, and so Scott went over

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Speaker 1: and said like Kathy, and she's like yes, yes, and

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Speaker 1: He's like, oh my god, this is going to meet you.

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Speaker 1: I'm Scott Alexander wrote this thing, and you know, like this,

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Speaker 1: You're it's it's it's such any to meet you. And

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Speaker 1: she's like, I'd love to beat Johnny. Can I meet Johnny?

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Speaker 1: And we're like oh, and Scott was just like okay, sure,

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Speaker 1: And so Scott brought over to the set and knocked

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Speaker 1: on Johnny's trailer and Scott came in and said, like, Cathy,

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Speaker 1: what is out there? And it was the day of

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Speaker 1: the Musso scene. So Johnny was like in address and

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Speaker 1: he was makeup, was smeared and all these things. And

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Speaker 1: Johnny was like, I can't go out the meter like this.

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Speaker 1: She's gonna think we're just like making fun of her husband.

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Speaker 1: And then I was like five minutes Johnny come to

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Speaker 1: set and he's like, you know all right, and he

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Speaker 1: opens the door and he walks out and Cathy sees

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Speaker 1: him and she's like, you look just like my Eddie

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00:24:02,840 --> 00:24:05,760
Speaker 1: and it says totally was great. And she went home

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00:24:05,760 --> 00:24:09,040
Speaker 1: and she came back and she brought Edward's wallet. We

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00:24:09,240 --> 00:24:10,919
Speaker 1: had it still had his I D and all these

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00:24:10,960 --> 00:24:13,600
Speaker 1: other things and hand the Johnny said like, please keep

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Speaker 1: this and be and and have this in your pocket

380
00:24:15,920 --> 00:24:18,920
Speaker 1: when you make all those things. So even though it

381
00:24:19,000 --> 00:24:22,399
Speaker 1: was obviously there's quotation marks all over the things that

382
00:24:22,440 --> 00:24:26,280
Speaker 1: happened in this movie. His wife recognized it as being

383
00:24:26,320 --> 00:24:30,159
Speaker 1: like close enough. That is more or less backed up

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Speaker 1: by Bob Blackburn, who has gotten a firsthand account of

385
00:24:33,200 --> 00:24:37,600
Speaker 1: Ed's personality through Kathy. He was a party kind of guy.

386
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Speaker 1: He loved having people around when they could afford it.

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00:24:41,320 --> 00:24:43,520
Speaker 1: One of their apartments out in North Hollywood had a

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Speaker 1: swimming pool and Edward have pool parties all the time.

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Speaker 1: One of my favorite stories that Kathy told me, and

390
00:24:49,240 --> 00:24:51,960
Speaker 1: this tracks me up. Ed was taken a bath one

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Speaker 1: day in their North Hollywood apartment and here's a knock

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Speaker 1: or and ring on the doorbell and he so he

393
00:24:58,160 --> 00:25:00,200
Speaker 1: put to towel and grabs the towel and goes out

394
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Speaker 1: and opens the doorners a fuller brush salesman there, and

395
00:25:03,480 --> 00:25:05,679
Speaker 1: Ed cracks up and he goes, hey, I'm right in

396
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Speaker 1: the middle of a bath. If you want to come

397
00:25:07,280 --> 00:25:10,320
Speaker 1: in and try and sell me something, I'm willing to listen.

398
00:25:10,400 --> 00:25:12,639
Speaker 1: And the guy goes, Okay, I know it could make

399
00:25:12,640 --> 00:25:15,879
Speaker 1: a sale here. So it goes back into the sits

400
00:25:15,880 --> 00:25:17,720
Speaker 1: in the tub, but the guy sits on the john

401
00:25:18,240 --> 00:25:20,520
Speaker 1: and they start talking. The guy pulls his brushes out

402
00:25:20,560 --> 00:25:22,879
Speaker 1: and it grabs one and thrubs his back and stuff

403
00:25:22,920 --> 00:25:25,680
Speaker 1: and says, hey, you want to drink and a guy yeah, yeah, okay,

404
00:25:25,720 --> 00:25:29,040
Speaker 1: So it gets a bottle again and they became fast friends.

405
00:25:29,680 --> 00:25:32,359
Speaker 1: It was that kind of guy that I think you

406
00:25:32,400 --> 00:25:37,480
Speaker 1: would like. The movie was a critical success and as

407
00:25:37,520 --> 00:25:41,159
Speaker 1: widely regarded as one of Tim Burton's best films, but

408
00:25:41,280 --> 00:25:44,760
Speaker 1: perhaps more importantly, it redefined ed Wood for a whole

409
00:25:44,800 --> 00:25:50,639
Speaker 1: new generation. Here's bill shoot. The Edwood movie was written

410
00:25:50,680 --> 00:25:54,280
Speaker 1: by two people who are super fans of Edwood. That

411
00:25:54,560 --> 00:25:58,240
Speaker 1: sort of gave him immortality. Now how do I view

412
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Speaker 1: the Edwood film? I view it very much like the

413
00:26:02,640 --> 00:26:06,440
Speaker 1: Buddy Holly Story was to Buddy Holly. They changed things

414
00:26:06,440 --> 00:26:12,480
Speaker 1: for dramatic license. Composite characters were created. Was it accurate No?

415
00:26:12,840 --> 00:26:16,760
Speaker 1: Was it six accurate? Maybe? But it was made by

416
00:26:16,840 --> 00:26:20,840
Speaker 1: people whose heart was in the right place, and the

417
00:26:20,880 --> 00:26:24,760
Speaker 1: Buddy Holly Story did a great job of getting people

418
00:26:24,840 --> 00:26:30,320
Speaker 1: interested in Buddy Holly. With Johnny Depp as ed Wood,

419
00:26:31,000 --> 00:26:34,399
Speaker 1: with the great Martin Landau as Bella Legosi, it was

420
00:26:34,440 --> 00:26:38,119
Speaker 1: a great film. Was it accurate? No? There are things

421
00:26:38,160 --> 00:26:41,199
Speaker 1: that were invented for the film. There were parts of

422
00:26:41,240 --> 00:26:44,199
Speaker 1: his life that were not included but at the end

423
00:26:44,240 --> 00:26:48,680
Speaker 1: of the day, it was respectful. It got people interested

424
00:26:48,760 --> 00:26:53,160
Speaker 1: in his work, and if it does that, then I'm

425
00:26:53,200 --> 00:26:56,480
Speaker 1: glad it exists. And I think so many people got

426
00:26:56,480 --> 00:26:59,040
Speaker 1: their introduction to Edward through that film. It's still a

427
00:26:59,080 --> 00:27:02,760
Speaker 1: popular film to day. I don't think Edwood or anyone

428
00:27:02,840 --> 00:27:09,080
Speaker 1: could have imagined a z Grade George Weiss produced film

429
00:27:09,080 --> 00:27:12,960
Speaker 1: having the making of that recreated in a multimillion dollar

430
00:27:13,040 --> 00:27:17,600
Speaker 1: Hollywood movie. There's something mind blowing about that on some level.

431
00:27:18,200 --> 00:27:21,320
Speaker 1: I guess you never know what will be rediscovered for

432
00:27:21,400 --> 00:27:27,919
Speaker 1: future generations. Edwood never got to work for Columbia or

433
00:27:28,040 --> 00:27:33,119
Speaker 1: Allied Artists, but in his death and in his posthumous fame,

434
00:27:33,920 --> 00:27:38,320
Speaker 1: he is up there now in terms of recognition with

435
00:27:38,520 --> 00:27:41,600
Speaker 1: the people he admired and he looked up to that

436
00:27:41,680 --> 00:27:44,800
Speaker 1: were wrongs above him on the ladder. And there's something

437
00:27:44,960 --> 00:27:50,200
Speaker 1: validating about that. And to me, there's something inspiring that

438
00:27:50,280 --> 00:27:55,600
Speaker 1: makes me happy and warms my heart about that. To me,

439
00:27:55,720 --> 00:27:59,160
Speaker 1: this begs the question was what happy with his status

440
00:27:59,240 --> 00:28:03,160
Speaker 1: as a low budget filmmaker. In his book Hollywood Rat Race,

441
00:28:03,520 --> 00:28:07,520
Speaker 1: he describes some to stay for Hollywood and the movie business.

442
00:28:07,560 --> 00:28:10,040
Speaker 1: So how did he feel about his own work. What

443
00:28:10,160 --> 00:28:13,520
Speaker 1: more might he have wanted for himself. Here's Bill Shoot,

444
00:28:13,720 --> 00:28:19,240
Speaker 1: followed by Bob Blackburn. Edwood would have loved to have

445
00:28:19,480 --> 00:28:25,480
Speaker 1: worked for an outfit like American International or Lippert or

446
00:28:25,600 --> 00:28:30,119
Speaker 1: one of the smaller allied artists. He was always aspiring

447
00:28:30,280 --> 00:28:32,200
Speaker 1: to that level, and I'm sure he would have been

448
00:28:32,240 --> 00:28:35,160
Speaker 1: happy to work on that level, to work for Sam

449
00:28:35,280 --> 00:28:38,280
Speaker 1: Katsman or someone like that. But he was a wrunger

450
00:28:38,320 --> 00:28:42,920
Speaker 1: to below that. He was a Hollywood outsider. He recognized

451
00:28:42,960 --> 00:28:45,240
Speaker 1: that and realized that. But no, he would have loved

452
00:28:45,240 --> 00:28:49,080
Speaker 1: to broken those doors down and been Alfred Hitchcocker, been

453
00:28:49,120 --> 00:28:51,600
Speaker 1: the orsen Wells that everybody says he would have loved

454
00:28:51,640 --> 00:28:54,080
Speaker 1: to have been. He would have loved to have the

455
00:28:54,120 --> 00:28:56,640
Speaker 1: power and the ability to make the movies he wanted

456
00:28:56,680 --> 00:28:59,560
Speaker 1: to make down the road with the actors that he

457
00:28:59,600 --> 00:29:02,240
Speaker 1: would have love to have worked with. But he did

458
00:29:02,600 --> 00:29:06,000
Speaker 1: what he did with what he had, and that, to

459
00:29:06,080 --> 00:29:08,600
Speaker 1: me is the victory for Edwood, is the fact that yes,

460
00:29:08,720 --> 00:29:11,680
Speaker 1: he came to Hollywood to make movies, and guish darn it,

461
00:29:11,760 --> 00:29:16,080
Speaker 1: he did make movies. You know, Over the years, the

462
00:29:16,200 --> 00:29:19,240
Speaker 1: Edward fandom has only grown, and with the help of

463
00:29:19,240 --> 00:29:23,880
Speaker 1: the internet, various lost works have been discovered. I have

464
00:29:23,960 --> 00:29:27,200
Speaker 1: a private Edward Facebook group, and we found out recently

465
00:29:27,240 --> 00:29:30,400
Speaker 1: that ed had been hired to write a script based

466
00:29:30,440 --> 00:29:33,840
Speaker 1: on a book biography of Frank Leigh He who was

467
00:29:33,920 --> 00:29:38,320
Speaker 1: the notiter Dame football coach in the forties. And this

468
00:29:38,400 --> 00:29:40,400
Speaker 1: guy who was a friend of Frank Lahis had written

469
00:29:40,400 --> 00:29:43,760
Speaker 1: a biography and somehow had contacted Ed in the mid

470
00:29:43,840 --> 00:29:46,000
Speaker 1: seventies to write a script based on this. Well this

471
00:29:46,160 --> 00:29:48,520
Speaker 1: none of us had ever heard of it, but somebody

472
00:29:48,520 --> 00:29:53,120
Speaker 1: found it in a library at St. Mary's College. It

473
00:29:53,320 --> 00:29:56,200
Speaker 1: turned out to be actually in Edward script that nobody

474
00:29:56,200 --> 00:29:58,640
Speaker 1: had never heard about, and there's going to be a

475
00:29:58,680 --> 00:30:01,200
Speaker 1: book about it. I mean up with the script and

476
00:30:01,280 --> 00:30:05,080
Speaker 1: some notes about the script by a couple of Edward scholars.

477
00:30:05,120 --> 00:30:06,880
Speaker 1: I will call them for lack of a better word,

478
00:30:06,920 --> 00:30:09,640
Speaker 1: but there are people that dive much deeper into Edwood

479
00:30:09,640 --> 00:30:12,720
Speaker 1: than I do. So it's amazing that a lot of

480
00:30:12,760 --> 00:30:16,760
Speaker 1: things that Ed wrote or producer did are still coming

481
00:30:16,760 --> 00:30:20,200
Speaker 1: to light, you know, thirty some plus years, forty years

482
00:30:20,200 --> 00:30:24,960
Speaker 1: after his death. Bob Blackburn says his online community is

483
00:30:24,960 --> 00:30:28,720
Speaker 1: hoping to keep the Edward flame alive. I get a

484
00:30:28,720 --> 00:30:31,600
Speaker 1: lot of these people in there who are just passionate

485
00:30:32,000 --> 00:30:36,360
Speaker 1: who call themselves Edwood. Oh files because they really dig

486
00:30:36,440 --> 00:30:43,720
Speaker 1: deep into Ed's history, his work, his friendships, his working relationships.

487
00:30:44,200 --> 00:30:47,280
Speaker 1: They are the ones that discovered this script, uh in

488
00:30:47,320 --> 00:30:51,840
Speaker 1: the in this library, they've discovered a couple of novels

489
00:30:51,880 --> 00:30:54,480
Speaker 1: that went under a different title than what we knew

490
00:30:54,520 --> 00:30:57,040
Speaker 1: them as a couple of people in there are working

491
00:30:57,080 --> 00:31:01,440
Speaker 1: on books about Ed. There's a gal who's uh doing

492
00:31:01,520 --> 00:31:05,240
Speaker 1: a biography that I think focus is a little bit

493
00:31:05,520 --> 00:31:10,600
Speaker 1: on Ed's spiritual qualities. He's an intriguing person. I mean

494
00:31:10,720 --> 00:31:15,280
Speaker 1: from just the human standpoint, he was an intriguing guy,

495
00:31:15,320 --> 00:31:17,760
Speaker 1: and I think people want to get to know who

496
00:31:17,920 --> 00:31:21,920
Speaker 1: this person was and why he was and his triumphs

497
00:31:21,920 --> 00:31:25,880
Speaker 1: and especially his failures, you know, because he had both,

498
00:31:26,280 --> 00:31:30,360
Speaker 1: some more than others. But what drove him where was

499
00:31:30,400 --> 00:31:34,800
Speaker 1: his creative well that he drew from a lot. Here's

500
00:31:34,840 --> 00:31:40,160
Speaker 1: a MovieMaker author and was talking about him today, and

501
00:31:40,200 --> 00:31:44,400
Speaker 1: really Wood's legacy goes further than his own career. In

502
00:31:44,440 --> 00:31:47,680
Speaker 1: a way, he blazed a trail for future artists to come.

503
00:31:49,320 --> 00:31:53,320
Speaker 1: I think we should celebrate the ingenuity of the z

504
00:31:53,600 --> 00:31:58,360
Speaker 1: Grade Poverty Row filmmaker who is like a sleight of

505
00:31:58,440 --> 00:32:02,320
Speaker 1: hand artist who makes you think you're seeing things you

506
00:32:02,400 --> 00:32:08,280
Speaker 1: don't actually see, or you see something that represents something larger,

507
00:32:09,360 --> 00:32:12,320
Speaker 1: and he can't afford to do this something larger. But

508
00:32:12,440 --> 00:32:14,840
Speaker 1: if you flash it for a second or two, and

509
00:32:14,920 --> 00:32:17,760
Speaker 1: if you're in the right spirit, it's not a problem.

510
00:32:17,840 --> 00:32:22,040
Speaker 1: It works. It's ghoulish, or you're afraid of it, or

511
00:32:22,080 --> 00:32:24,760
Speaker 1: it shocks you, and it does what it needs to

512
00:32:24,800 --> 00:32:27,480
Speaker 1: do and you move on to the next scene. We

513
00:32:27,560 --> 00:32:30,760
Speaker 1: need to remember, an Edwood film, most of the time,

514
00:32:31,080 --> 00:32:34,680
Speaker 1: is instantly recognizable. You watch a minute of it and

515
00:32:34,720 --> 00:32:37,520
Speaker 1: you know that it was directed by him, or that

516
00:32:37,600 --> 00:32:40,520
Speaker 1: he wrote it if he did not direct it. So

517
00:32:41,040 --> 00:32:44,360
Speaker 1: that in itself is a great achievement. How many people

518
00:32:44,400 --> 00:32:47,440
Speaker 1: can have that said about their work, that it is

519
00:32:47,520 --> 00:32:52,560
Speaker 1: instantly recognizable. So we need to take our hat off

520
00:32:52,600 --> 00:32:57,719
Speaker 1: to Edwood for creating works that are still entertaining people

521
00:32:58,240 --> 00:33:01,880
Speaker 1: decades and decades and decades after they were made, that

522
00:33:01,960 --> 00:33:06,880
Speaker 1: originally played on the most marginal circuit, but which are

523
00:33:06,960 --> 00:33:11,160
Speaker 1: known and loved, and which people quote dialogue from today.

524
00:33:11,320 --> 00:33:15,440
Speaker 1: That is an amazing achievement. And people are writing about

525
00:33:15,560 --> 00:33:20,200
Speaker 1: him and rediscovering his works and republishing his writings. I

526
00:33:20,240 --> 00:33:23,320
Speaker 1: hope that in that great film set in the Sky

527
00:33:23,480 --> 00:33:26,760
Speaker 1: or that modest film set in the Sky, that Edward

528
00:33:26,800 --> 00:33:30,360
Speaker 1: is aware of the love and appreciation that his work has.

529
00:33:32,160 --> 00:33:35,200
Speaker 1: All three of us producers on Ephemeral are huge Edward

530
00:33:35,280 --> 00:33:39,160
Speaker 1: fans in the most sincere way possible. So after this break,

531
00:33:39,240 --> 00:33:40,959
Speaker 1: we're going to come back and talk about a few

532
00:33:41,040 --> 00:33:49,920
Speaker 1: of our favorite films. To finish up our deep dive

533
00:33:49,920 --> 00:33:52,640
Speaker 1: into Edwood, we wanted to step back and have a

534
00:33:52,680 --> 00:33:56,880
Speaker 1: casual conversation about Woods films. So joining me now are

535
00:33:56,880 --> 00:34:03,640
Speaker 1: my fellow Ephemeral producers slash hosts X and Alex Williams Tevin.

536
00:34:03,640 --> 00:34:06,680
Speaker 1: Where did you become acquainted with Edward films? In our family?

537
00:34:07,440 --> 00:34:11,680
Speaker 1: So bad It's good movies are like the number one

538
00:34:11,760 --> 00:34:15,879
Speaker 1: way that we communicate with each other as human beings. Yeah,

539
00:34:16,000 --> 00:34:19,800
Speaker 1: Like if I go home for Christmas, the conversation is

540
00:34:19,840 --> 00:34:23,120
Speaker 1: mostly just about whatever the new riff tracks stuff is.

541
00:34:23,120 --> 00:34:25,000
Speaker 1: And we just didn't We just did and watched all

542
00:34:25,080 --> 00:34:28,319
Speaker 1: these bad movies and make fun of them. Um, but

543
00:34:28,520 --> 00:34:31,400
Speaker 1: where did it come in in your life? I like

544
00:34:31,480 --> 00:34:34,240
Speaker 1: would see his stuff like in my local video store

545
00:34:34,280 --> 00:34:36,520
Speaker 1: growing up. You know, they had like posters and things

546
00:34:36,520 --> 00:34:38,480
Speaker 1: like that. So I like new about like Plan nine

547
00:34:38,480 --> 00:34:40,840
Speaker 1: for Matter space, for example, but I never really like

548
00:34:40,880 --> 00:34:43,400
Speaker 1: watched it. I think like a lot of like fifties

549
00:34:43,440 --> 00:34:46,520
Speaker 1: sixty genre movies just like didn't appeal to me growing

550
00:34:46,600 --> 00:34:50,160
Speaker 1: up necessarily. So it was really the Edward biopic. I

551
00:34:50,200 --> 00:34:53,920
Speaker 1: think the Tim Burton movie in that like kind of

552
00:34:53,920 --> 00:34:57,439
Speaker 1: piqued my interest. And I think that's like probably true

553
00:34:57,440 --> 00:34:58,960
Speaker 1: for a lot of people, at least a lot of

554
00:34:58,960 --> 00:35:02,200
Speaker 1: people in my age bracket. I'm a millennial, and um,

555
00:35:02,239 --> 00:35:04,480
Speaker 1: I've always loved Tim Burton, so I like love and

556
00:35:04,520 --> 00:35:07,520
Speaker 1: trust anything he does. But that movie especially just like

557
00:35:07,600 --> 00:35:09,480
Speaker 1: really blew me away. The first time I saw it.

558
00:35:09,800 --> 00:35:12,799
Speaker 1: It was just like so different from anything else he's

559
00:35:12,800 --> 00:35:15,480
Speaker 1: ever done. You know, it was like very much grounded

560
00:35:15,520 --> 00:35:18,440
Speaker 1: in reality. It was like this very kind of funny,

561
00:35:18,520 --> 00:35:24,359
Speaker 1: lovable story about a director. And you know, I would

562
00:35:24,400 --> 00:35:27,399
Speaker 1: like go on to love similar types of movies, like

563
00:35:27,640 --> 00:35:31,400
Speaker 1: The Disaster Artists, which paints a pretty interesting picture of

564
00:35:31,400 --> 00:35:34,000
Speaker 1: Tommy Wiz oh something about those kind of like biopic

565
00:35:34,000 --> 00:35:35,960
Speaker 1: movies are always just great to me. Um, I love

566
00:35:36,040 --> 00:35:38,040
Speaker 1: that we can take these people who are typically kind

567
00:35:38,040 --> 00:35:42,480
Speaker 1: of laughed at and culture and like see like the

568
00:35:42,520 --> 00:35:44,759
Speaker 1: heart behind them and really like come to appreciate them

569
00:35:44,800 --> 00:35:48,120
Speaker 1: and understand them as people. So anyways, long story short,

570
00:35:48,400 --> 00:35:51,920
Speaker 1: I loved that movie and so from there I started

571
00:35:51,920 --> 00:35:54,960
Speaker 1: like actually going back to Edward movies. And at around

572
00:35:54,960 --> 00:35:57,000
Speaker 1: that same time, I got really into VHS collecting, So

573
00:35:57,040 --> 00:35:59,800
Speaker 1: I started collecting all these old you know VHS tapes

574
00:35:59,800 --> 00:36:03,279
Speaker 1: of Wood movies and watching them on my CRT and

575
00:36:03,560 --> 00:36:05,920
Speaker 1: having a great time with them. So I'd say probably

576
00:36:05,960 --> 00:36:08,040
Speaker 1: like the last five years, I've been really digging into

577
00:36:08,640 --> 00:36:12,160
Speaker 1: all the old Edwood movies and coming to actually really

578
00:36:12,200 --> 00:36:16,120
Speaker 1: like them. So like The Disaster Artist, I think in

579
00:36:16,160 --> 00:36:20,240
Speaker 1: the Disaster Artists, over the credits they actually show side

580
00:36:20,239 --> 00:36:23,640
Speaker 1: by side, um, like the scenes that they did in

581
00:36:23,640 --> 00:36:26,279
Speaker 1: the Disaster Arts movie and the scenes from the room

582
00:36:26,360 --> 00:36:28,400
Speaker 1: and just to show you how like on the nose

583
00:36:28,400 --> 00:36:32,200
Speaker 1: they got the costumes and the blocking, the blocking, the

584
00:36:32,239 --> 00:36:36,160
Speaker 1: blocking enclothes and everything and and plan and um. The

585
00:36:36,320 --> 00:36:39,879
Speaker 1: ed Wood the Tim Burton biopic or biopic if you will,

586
00:36:40,360 --> 00:36:42,360
Speaker 1: I think it is super on the money too, I

587
00:36:42,360 --> 00:36:47,319
Speaker 1: mean the down to like you know, the cardboard um headstones,

588
00:36:47,400 --> 00:36:52,600
Speaker 1: getting you know, tossled and whatever. Yeah, I mean it's

589
00:36:52,680 --> 00:36:54,600
Speaker 1: It's pretty incredible. How good of a job they did.

590
00:36:55,080 --> 00:36:57,280
Speaker 1: If nothing else has just like got you really inspired

591
00:36:57,320 --> 00:36:59,040
Speaker 1: to like go back and see the original movies. I

592
00:36:59,040 --> 00:37:01,040
Speaker 1: wish they had done like a side by side. I

593
00:37:01,120 --> 00:37:03,759
Speaker 1: met somebody on YouTube's done it just like did that

594
00:37:03,800 --> 00:37:06,520
Speaker 1: exact same thing you were describing from the disaster artist.

595
00:37:07,440 --> 00:37:14,279
Speaker 1: Do you all have a favorite Edward movie, Trevor, You

596
00:37:14,320 --> 00:37:18,600
Speaker 1: maybe said that yours this Night of the Ghouls Trumpet, Yeah,

597
00:37:18,800 --> 00:37:21,799
Speaker 1: something about the trumpet and the silly Seance and the Skelly.

598
00:37:21,920 --> 00:37:26,600
Speaker 1: I love Skellies, man. I don't know what it is. Um.

599
00:37:26,840 --> 00:37:29,719
Speaker 1: If I was gonna be honest about which ones I

600
00:37:29,800 --> 00:37:35,120
Speaker 1: like enjoy an ironically, Um, I actually think like Glennard

601
00:37:35,160 --> 00:37:39,040
Speaker 1: Glenda is like his best actual film. Like if you're

602
00:37:39,520 --> 00:37:42,759
Speaker 1: judging it on the merits that we normally do for

603
00:37:42,960 --> 00:37:45,719
Speaker 1: like a standard film, I'd say Glendard Glenda. Yeah, I

604
00:37:45,760 --> 00:37:49,080
Speaker 1: think it. Um is like way more sincere. I think

605
00:37:49,680 --> 00:37:53,359
Speaker 1: the scripting and the subject matter is like a lot

606
00:37:53,400 --> 00:37:56,080
Speaker 1: more nuanced. You know, it still makes use of a

607
00:37:56,080 --> 00:37:59,600
Speaker 1: lot of like be your role and other patchworky things,

608
00:38:00,760 --> 00:38:02,880
Speaker 1: but like whatever, it's like a lot more forgivable in

609
00:38:02,920 --> 00:38:06,520
Speaker 1: the context. Uh No, I just the the use of

610
00:38:06,600 --> 00:38:11,680
Speaker 1: Baule in that movie is absolutely bizarre, where it's this,

611
00:38:11,880 --> 00:38:14,480
Speaker 1: it's this. I agree with you that the narrative has

612
00:38:14,560 --> 00:38:17,560
Speaker 1: the sincerity of of a cross dressing and it actually

613
00:38:18,080 --> 00:38:22,640
Speaker 1: Edward actually plays the title character in it, doesn't he So,

614
00:38:22,680 --> 00:38:25,440
Speaker 1: like Bill shoots said something really interesting and the interview

615
00:38:25,520 --> 00:38:27,960
Speaker 1: take that kind of took me back that if ed

616
00:38:28,160 --> 00:38:31,759
Speaker 1: would only made Glennar Glenda, he would still like have

617
00:38:31,800 --> 00:38:33,920
Speaker 1: a place in the history books. And I don't I

618
00:38:33,920 --> 00:38:35,920
Speaker 1: don't know. I mean, a few weird things had to

619
00:38:35,920 --> 00:38:38,879
Speaker 1: transpire for anyone to be talking about Edwood now, I think,

620
00:38:38,920 --> 00:38:41,399
Speaker 1: But but I don't know that. I was like, Okay,

621
00:38:41,400 --> 00:38:43,600
Speaker 1: I kind of buy that Bill, Yeah, like Glennard Glenda

622
00:38:43,680 --> 00:38:48,600
Speaker 1: is a is a completely unique film. But the use

623
00:38:48,640 --> 00:38:52,719
Speaker 1: of bear roll so it's this, this cross dressing narrative

624
00:38:53,320 --> 00:38:56,560
Speaker 1: about personal identity, and it's a little far, you know,

625
00:38:56,719 --> 00:38:58,480
Speaker 1: it's a little far reaching him and and kind of

626
00:38:58,480 --> 00:39:00,560
Speaker 1: goes all over the place. But then there's Bella le

627
00:39:00,640 --> 00:39:06,560
Speaker 1: Ghostie as this random narrator figure with bureau footage of

628
00:39:06,640 --> 00:39:16,719
Speaker 1: buffalo running projected behind him, screaming, just stringing, and so

629
00:39:16,760 --> 00:39:18,720
Speaker 1: I don't know, I don't know how you fregive something

630
00:39:18,760 --> 00:39:23,000
Speaker 1: like that. I mean, it's so it's so brilliantly bizarre

631
00:39:24,160 --> 00:39:26,719
Speaker 1: that your I gruth. I think glennar Glenda is definitely

632
00:39:26,840 --> 00:39:29,719
Speaker 1: his best one. Like I was watching them, I got

633
00:39:29,760 --> 00:39:30,840
Speaker 1: to that one like a little bit later on, and

634
00:39:31,000 --> 00:39:33,600
Speaker 1: I think I'd already watched Plan nine and like Brought

635
00:39:33,640 --> 00:39:35,320
Speaker 1: of the Monster. I was like, Okay, this was actually

636
00:39:35,360 --> 00:39:39,080
Speaker 1: a little bit better. That blows him out with Glenn

637
00:39:39,080 --> 00:39:42,319
Speaker 1: Glenda obviously, Like yeah, like what is Bella leghostie doing there?

638
00:39:42,320 --> 00:39:44,279
Speaker 1: Like what is his purpose in this movie? He's just

639
00:39:44,480 --> 00:39:48,719
Speaker 1: there because he has Bella ghost Yeah, Like Brand of

640
00:39:48,760 --> 00:39:51,960
Speaker 1: the Monster is just like really boring, and it's just

641
00:39:52,080 --> 00:39:59,839
Speaker 1: kind of like this very stereotypical like fifties horror film type. Yeah,

642
00:40:00,200 --> 00:40:03,279
Speaker 1: and then like Plan nine is just awful. I mean,

643
00:40:04,360 --> 00:40:07,800
Speaker 1: start to finish, it's just terrible. So you think Edward

644
00:40:07,800 --> 00:40:10,480
Speaker 1: got worse and worse and worse, And he got worse,

645
00:40:10,560 --> 00:40:16,040
Speaker 1: He got worse. His ability to conceptualize a plot, like

646
00:40:16,080 --> 00:40:20,400
Speaker 1: a plot like a leads to be leads to see yeah,

647
00:40:20,560 --> 00:40:22,920
Speaker 1: and even really to have a story like this is

648
00:40:22,960 --> 00:40:28,400
Speaker 1: like the overarching tale of like what's happening? Um is

649
00:40:28,480 --> 00:40:31,440
Speaker 1: pretty muddled. I can't really think of a movie of

650
00:40:31,480 --> 00:40:35,280
Speaker 1: his word where the story and the plot come through

651
00:40:36,840 --> 00:40:40,359
Speaker 1: pride of the monster maybe the most, but even that

652
00:40:41,800 --> 00:40:45,240
Speaker 1: is very confusing. Yeah, the girl gets like lost slash

653
00:40:45,280 --> 00:40:48,759
Speaker 1: abducted by like mad scientists who like creates monsters in

654
00:40:48,800 --> 00:40:53,160
Speaker 1: his lab. He wants to like keeper, and he's like

655
00:40:53,200 --> 00:40:56,640
Speaker 1: super bitter because he was like ostracized from his community

656
00:40:56,760 --> 00:40:59,680
Speaker 1: or his country because he wanted to experiment with making

657
00:40:59,680 --> 00:41:03,279
Speaker 1: a people atomic people, right, And then cops come in

658
00:41:03,320 --> 00:41:05,000
Speaker 1: and save the girl, kill the dude, and leave. I

659
00:41:05,000 --> 00:41:06,960
Speaker 1: guess it's pretty straight. And don't don't forget about all

660
00:41:06,960 --> 00:41:09,920
Speaker 1: the thirst trapping they do, like like slowly the shirt

661
00:41:09,960 --> 00:41:13,400
Speaker 1: guy's shirt this keeps getting more and more destroyed. I

662
00:41:13,400 --> 00:41:16,279
Speaker 1: mean it's it's very intentional. So Max, which one is

663
00:41:16,360 --> 00:41:20,920
Speaker 1: your favorite then? Or I would say Glennard Glenda or

664
00:41:21,160 --> 00:41:22,919
Speaker 1: I mean it doesn't it doesn't couch as a short,

665
00:41:22,960 --> 00:41:26,879
Speaker 1: but the final curtains it's it's weird. It is objectively

666
00:41:27,040 --> 00:41:30,560
Speaker 1: really kind of like creative. There's it's like all done

667
00:41:30,560 --> 00:41:34,680
Speaker 1: through narration and stuff. It's it's it's really interesting. It's

668
00:41:34,719 --> 00:41:37,799
Speaker 1: like I feel like those are ones we can see

669
00:41:37,800 --> 00:41:40,279
Speaker 1: like ed Woods, like really trying to be creative with

670
00:41:40,360 --> 00:41:42,680
Speaker 1: this stuff. When it's like I guess he was trying

671
00:41:42,680 --> 00:41:44,920
Speaker 1: to be creative with Plan nine. Just what came out

672
00:41:45,040 --> 00:41:49,040
Speaker 1: is just yeah, I'll probably say those are my two favorite.

673
00:41:50,239 --> 00:41:54,040
Speaker 1: I Plan nine, hands down is my favorite. It's one

674
00:41:54,040 --> 00:41:58,279
Speaker 1: of my favorite UM so bad It's Good films or

675
00:41:58,360 --> 00:42:01,360
Speaker 1: just like you could call it a genre film of

676
00:42:01,440 --> 00:42:04,759
Speaker 1: the fifties, but it's barely a genre film because it's

677
00:42:04,920 --> 00:42:10,439
Speaker 1: so outside the norms of of storytelling. But it's got

678
00:42:10,480 --> 00:42:12,719
Speaker 1: so many iconic moments to meet. I mean just the

679
00:42:13,080 --> 00:42:15,720
Speaker 1: opening which he uses in other films, to the opening

680
00:42:15,719 --> 00:42:19,759
Speaker 1: with Criswell in the casket Bcarly that that is also

681
00:42:19,800 --> 00:42:23,120
Speaker 1: what's great is Chris wall is a character in UM

682
00:42:23,560 --> 00:42:26,920
Speaker 1: Night of the Ghouls, right, that is pretty cool, I

683
00:42:27,120 --> 00:42:30,760
Speaker 1: will say. And his voice is always echoing everyone else's

684
00:42:30,840 --> 00:42:34,880
Speaker 1: voices norm and this is always going yeah, I mean,

685
00:42:34,880 --> 00:42:36,600
Speaker 1: you got a point. Their Plan nine, I think is

686
00:42:36,600 --> 00:42:40,359
Speaker 1: like his most like quotable and easily recognizable, I think

687
00:42:40,360 --> 00:42:45,000
Speaker 1: for a reason, right like the Grave, very vampire with

688
00:42:45,080 --> 00:42:48,839
Speaker 1: Tour Johnson as the detective, given the other detectives instructions

689
00:42:48,880 --> 00:42:55,880
Speaker 1: that you can barely understand vampire having no words, Um

690
00:42:55,920 --> 00:43:00,440
Speaker 1: the Great Flying Saucer special effects from I think the

691
00:43:00,600 --> 00:43:04,680
Speaker 1: like lack of continuity or consistency between those things, like

692
00:43:04,719 --> 00:43:06,760
Speaker 1: how the one guy describes it as like a cigar

693
00:43:06,880 --> 00:43:09,640
Speaker 1: shaped ship, and then when you actually see it it's

694
00:43:09,640 --> 00:43:11,800
Speaker 1: like a saucerer. It like looks nothing like a cigar.

695
00:43:11,920 --> 00:43:13,560
Speaker 1: I love stuff like that because I will say that

696
00:43:13,719 --> 00:43:16,040
Speaker 1: when it comes to historical accounts, the early ones of

697
00:43:16,200 --> 00:43:19,959
Speaker 1: UFOs were as cigar shaped. The saucer came later on,

698
00:43:20,200 --> 00:43:22,440
Speaker 1: so it's like he got his like stories and the

699
00:43:22,440 --> 00:43:25,319
Speaker 1: plot mixed up. I do like that a fist fight

700
00:43:25,360 --> 00:43:27,359
Speaker 1: on the ship causes it to blow up and catch

701
00:43:27,360 --> 00:43:31,960
Speaker 1: on fire. There's nothing, they're just they're just punching each

702
00:43:32,000 --> 00:43:34,200
Speaker 1: other and the ship catches on fire. It's like in

703
00:43:34,239 --> 00:43:36,719
Speaker 1: the whole time, it's like you stupid, stupid people. It's

704
00:43:36,760 --> 00:43:39,040
Speaker 1: like the aliens are supposed to be so sophisticated by

705
00:43:39,120 --> 00:43:40,560
Speaker 1: all you have to do is just getting a fist

706
00:43:40,600 --> 00:43:44,960
Speaker 1: fight and their ship blows up. So one interesting question.

707
00:43:45,000 --> 00:43:47,440
Speaker 1: I guess this is like the bigger philosophical question. I

708
00:43:47,440 --> 00:43:50,640
Speaker 1: wanted to kind of broach with you too. You know,

709
00:43:50,719 --> 00:43:53,440
Speaker 1: in the episodes, we have very different opinions about like

710
00:43:54,560 --> 00:43:57,520
Speaker 1: you know whether it's like okay to sort of suspend

711
00:43:57,560 --> 00:44:00,360
Speaker 1: disbelief when you're like seeing stuff like that just so

712
00:44:00,520 --> 00:44:05,799
Speaker 1: you can like authentically genuinely enjoy it. Um, or do

713
00:44:05,880 --> 00:44:08,200
Speaker 1: you kind of like take this more MST three K

714
00:44:08,280 --> 00:44:10,239
Speaker 1: approach to it and like is that the way you

715
00:44:10,239 --> 00:44:13,880
Speaker 1: should enjoy stuff like ed Wood? Um? I'm kind of

716
00:44:13,880 --> 00:44:17,000
Speaker 1: down the middle, frankly, Like they're just times where it's

717
00:44:17,040 --> 00:44:20,200
Speaker 1: so just like obviously not good that like you can't

718
00:44:20,200 --> 00:44:21,880
Speaker 1: help it's just like laugh at it for that reason.

719
00:44:22,520 --> 00:44:24,680
Speaker 1: But they're like there are other times where like actually

720
00:44:24,760 --> 00:44:27,160
Speaker 1: just like turn my brain off and like have a

721
00:44:27,160 --> 00:44:30,719
Speaker 1: fun time watching whatever's on the screen. So I don't

722
00:44:30,719 --> 00:44:32,480
Speaker 1: really have an answer. I'm just curious what you all think.

723
00:44:33,440 --> 00:44:37,680
Speaker 1: I think the question is kind of ancient and potentional

724
00:44:37,760 --> 00:44:44,719
Speaker 1: answerable about um is aesthetic value objective? Like what does

725
00:44:44,719 --> 00:44:48,319
Speaker 1: it mean if something is good or bad? I don't

726
00:44:48,320 --> 00:44:49,680
Speaker 1: and I don't really know if there's a way that

727
00:44:49,719 --> 00:44:53,160
Speaker 1: anything should be enjoyed. I don't think you necessarily need

728
00:44:53,200 --> 00:44:56,920
Speaker 1: to know anything about Edwood. I don't think you. I

729
00:44:56,960 --> 00:44:58,840
Speaker 1: think maybe if you had never seen another movie it

730
00:44:58,920 --> 00:45:04,120
Speaker 1: might help to enjoy. But yeah, I don't know. I

731
00:45:04,160 --> 00:45:07,759
Speaker 1: mean Um, I call it so bad that it's good,

732
00:45:08,040 --> 00:45:10,719
Speaker 1: maybe as a little bit of shorthand because they are

733
00:45:10,760 --> 00:45:13,960
Speaker 1: so difficult to talk about because they're just so different

734
00:45:14,000 --> 00:45:16,560
Speaker 1: than anything else that's out there. But I mean, I

735
00:45:16,640 --> 00:45:20,200
Speaker 1: have what I would call very sincere enjoyment. Maybe not

736
00:45:20,320 --> 00:45:23,000
Speaker 1: from all of them hashtag Nite of the Goals, but

737
00:45:23,080 --> 00:45:28,320
Speaker 1: like Plan nine, y'all. I have watched probably a dozen times.

738
00:45:28,600 --> 00:45:31,160
Speaker 1: It's I've used little clips from it in lots of

739
00:45:31,200 --> 00:45:34,239
Speaker 1: ephemeral episodes because it's in the public domain. Um, and

740
00:45:34,280 --> 00:45:37,279
Speaker 1: it's just got great lines like in the future, which

741
00:45:37,320 --> 00:45:41,840
Speaker 1: is where all of us will live someday, in all

742
00:45:41,880 --> 00:45:44,799
Speaker 1: of us will live the rest of our lives exactly

743
00:45:45,040 --> 00:45:47,400
Speaker 1: I wish I had memorized. There's been parts in my

744
00:45:47,440 --> 00:45:49,240
Speaker 1: life where I have really had a lot of stuff

745
00:45:49,280 --> 00:45:53,680
Speaker 1: memorized from from Plan nine. But yeah, so like that,

746
00:45:53,800 --> 00:45:56,399
Speaker 1: I would say the enjoyment that I have watching Plan nine.

747
00:45:56,400 --> 00:45:58,799
Speaker 1: When I slewt Max and I think you were it

748
00:45:58,880 --> 00:46:02,080
Speaker 1: was Max and Mom and Dad. I saw it in

749
00:46:02,120 --> 00:46:06,880
Speaker 1: a theatrical simulcast with the riff tracks guys, and it

750
00:46:07,000 --> 00:46:10,840
Speaker 1: was colorized, and I had never seen a colorized before,

751
00:46:10,920 --> 00:46:12,800
Speaker 1: and that just took it to the next level. I

752
00:46:12,880 --> 00:46:14,799
Speaker 1: probaised them Abe at least a dozen times. I would

753
00:46:14,800 --> 00:46:18,480
Speaker 1: watch it right now. I genuinely enjoy it um and

754
00:46:18,520 --> 00:46:22,360
Speaker 1: I laughed the whole time. Oh yeah, I mean like

755
00:46:22,400 --> 00:46:23,719
Speaker 1: I don't know. I was thinking about this, like when

756
00:46:23,760 --> 00:46:25,840
Speaker 1: we were doing the episode about her Carvey. It's like,

757
00:46:25,840 --> 00:46:27,680
Speaker 1: you know, Carnival Souls. If you just kind of sit

758
00:46:27,719 --> 00:46:30,520
Speaker 1: there and watch Carnival Souls, it's not a good movie.

759
00:46:30,560 --> 00:46:33,960
Speaker 1: I mean what they made it with like twe dollars. Uh.

760
00:46:34,680 --> 00:46:37,120
Speaker 1: There's like those scenes where it's like the worst time

761
00:46:37,120 --> 00:46:39,360
Speaker 1: I think of. It's like she's in the doctor's office

762
00:46:39,400 --> 00:46:41,520
Speaker 1: and he turns around and it's the cool and there's

763
00:46:41,560 --> 00:46:46,399
Speaker 1: just that long pause and then there's a But it's

764
00:46:46,440 --> 00:46:49,200
Speaker 1: like I could say I legitimately love that movie after

765
00:46:49,239 --> 00:46:51,239
Speaker 1: watching it all those times. It's like, I don't know,

766
00:46:51,360 --> 00:46:54,279
Speaker 1: it's just like dogs point, it's like what is good?

767
00:46:54,280 --> 00:46:57,120
Speaker 1: What is bad? I don't know. I mean, objectively, if

768
00:46:57,160 --> 00:46:59,320
Speaker 1: you really want to put it up on this whole grade,

769
00:46:59,360 --> 00:47:02,120
Speaker 1: it's like, yeah, there's not a single Edward film that's

770
00:47:02,160 --> 00:47:05,360
Speaker 1: even decent. But at the same time, it's like, you know,

771
00:47:05,440 --> 00:47:07,560
Speaker 1: I I enjoyed going back and watching a bunch of these,

772
00:47:07,600 --> 00:47:10,799
Speaker 1: like including the ones like I did not remember how

773
00:47:10,880 --> 00:47:13,760
Speaker 1: much I enjoyed glennor Glenda despite what that eighteen minute

774
00:47:13,800 --> 00:47:17,480
Speaker 1: long scene that's just nothing. It's just like almost softcore porn,

775
00:47:18,239 --> 00:47:21,319
Speaker 1: that's about it. I mean, I don't know, it looked

776
00:47:21,320 --> 00:47:24,440
Speaker 1: like they needed to get another eighteen minutes into the film.

777
00:47:24,480 --> 00:47:27,520
Speaker 1: But I'm like, yeah, actually I remember this movie being terrible,

778
00:47:27,560 --> 00:47:29,440
Speaker 1: and it is terrible, but it's a lot better than

779
00:47:29,480 --> 00:47:31,960
Speaker 1: I remember it being. And I enjoyed it, and I

780
00:47:32,080 --> 00:47:34,200
Speaker 1: enjoyed watching all these and I don't know. That's That's

781
00:47:34,239 --> 00:47:35,959
Speaker 1: what matters to me, is like do I actually enjoy

782
00:47:35,960 --> 00:47:38,000
Speaker 1: it or not? And I enjoy it wood stuff all

783
00:47:38,000 --> 00:47:42,239
Speaker 1: the time, especially the colorized Plan nine. So first of all,

784
00:47:42,760 --> 00:47:45,120
Speaker 1: Her Carvings Carnival Souls is a great film, and I

785
00:47:45,120 --> 00:47:47,600
Speaker 1: will not accept any slander about that film. I think

786
00:47:47,600 --> 00:47:52,480
Speaker 1: it's like a a low budget masterpiece frankly, But um, yeah,

787
00:47:52,480 --> 00:47:54,719
Speaker 1: I guess as far as like the enjoyment thing, I

788
00:47:54,760 --> 00:47:57,160
Speaker 1: guess like I never want to feel like I'm part

789
00:47:57,160 --> 00:47:59,399
Speaker 1: of a group of people who are like punching down

790
00:47:59,600 --> 00:48:02,399
Speaker 1: or like making fun of something that was just kind

791
00:48:02,440 --> 00:48:06,799
Speaker 1: of like, you know, incompetence. It would feel wrong too,

792
00:48:07,400 --> 00:48:10,319
Speaker 1: just like crap on somebody just because they don't have

793
00:48:10,440 --> 00:48:15,160
Speaker 1: like the skills or the money. You know, like if

794
00:48:15,160 --> 00:48:18,480
Speaker 1: they didn't do a good job at something and they

795
00:48:18,480 --> 00:48:21,880
Speaker 1: were just like totally pretentious about it, like maybe that

796
00:48:21,960 --> 00:48:24,239
Speaker 1: I would make fun of them. But you know Edward's case,

797
00:48:24,280 --> 00:48:27,480
Speaker 1: he was just like had struggles and he was totally

798
00:48:27,480 --> 00:48:29,040
Speaker 1: sincere in the thing he was wanting to do. And

799
00:48:29,080 --> 00:48:30,920
Speaker 1: so yeah, I guess I'm just saying I feel like

800
00:48:30,960 --> 00:48:33,600
Speaker 1: some sense of like guilt at like laughing at the

801
00:48:33,640 --> 00:48:38,239
Speaker 1: thing he did. Sometimes maybe it's inevitable, but I don't know.

802
00:48:38,880 --> 00:48:42,640
Speaker 1: I mean, I think there's this interesting phenomenon that there's

803
00:48:42,640 --> 00:48:49,680
Speaker 1: a jilion pretty extremely dull, low budget genre movies from

804
00:48:49,719 --> 00:48:53,279
Speaker 1: the fifties and the sixties sci fi and lots of

805
00:48:53,280 --> 00:48:57,560
Speaker 1: others westerns and and and crime films and whatever. But

806
00:48:57,640 --> 00:49:01,080
Speaker 1: like there's about a sou I mean, there's gonna be

807
00:49:01,120 --> 00:49:05,279
Speaker 1: thousands of other sci fi movies that this would, you know,

808
00:49:05,360 --> 00:49:08,000
Speaker 1: like on paper, like a movie like Plan nine or

809
00:49:08,080 --> 00:49:11,080
Speaker 1: Bright of the Monster Slash Bright of the Atom would

810
00:49:11,160 --> 00:49:14,799
Speaker 1: would fit into. And yet you could watch dozens of

811
00:49:14,840 --> 00:49:17,480
Speaker 1: those without any of them standing out to you. Probably

812
00:49:17,520 --> 00:49:22,080
Speaker 1: maybe an element here or there, edwards stuff stands out

813
00:49:22,719 --> 00:49:27,080
Speaker 1: for whatever reason. It's just so it's so very different

814
00:49:27,120 --> 00:49:30,439
Speaker 1: than any than anybody else's work. Yeah, I know. It's

815
00:49:30,440 --> 00:49:32,440
Speaker 1: just like there are plenty of movies that are just

816
00:49:32,480 --> 00:49:37,279
Speaker 1: as bad as Monster, Like you know, there are a

817
00:49:37,320 --> 00:49:39,200
Speaker 1: ton of movies like that, but that one does stand out.

818
00:49:39,200 --> 00:49:41,640
Speaker 1: It's something about Edwards style. It's I don't know, it's

819
00:49:41,680 --> 00:49:44,560
Speaker 1: like how genuine you could tell the people are you

820
00:49:44,560 --> 00:49:48,040
Speaker 1: know that you tell they're trying, you tell TORR. Johnson

821
00:49:48,120 --> 00:49:50,759
Speaker 1: is actually really trying to deliver those lines and Plan nine.

822
00:49:50,880 --> 00:49:54,400
Speaker 1: It's just nobody can understand it. And I don't know,

823
00:49:54,680 --> 00:49:56,279
Speaker 1: it's like you know that you can you can see

824
00:49:56,280 --> 00:49:58,560
Speaker 1: a passion and stuff that you know, there's there's a

825
00:49:58,560 --> 00:50:00,440
Speaker 1: good level of respect that I have, Like, you know,

826
00:50:01,040 --> 00:50:04,920
Speaker 1: they're badly made movies, but they tried really hard. There

827
00:50:04,960 --> 00:50:07,319
Speaker 1: are I mean, the craft of filmmaking in them is

828
00:50:07,360 --> 00:50:11,880
Speaker 1: extremely low. So the lighting, the blocking, the set design,

829
00:50:12,640 --> 00:50:16,680
Speaker 1: the acting, the writing. Yeah, the craft is very the

830
00:50:16,800 --> 00:50:21,279
Speaker 1: craft the craft is doesn't demonstrate a whole lot of dexterity.

831
00:50:22,200 --> 00:50:23,600
Speaker 1: So though, I mean, I think there's like a certain

832
00:50:23,680 --> 00:50:25,359
Speaker 1: charm to that. And maybe that's just because I grew

833
00:50:25,400 --> 00:50:28,840
Speaker 1: up as like a a nineties kid in video stores,

834
00:50:29,040 --> 00:50:30,520
Speaker 1: and there was just like a certain sort of like

835
00:50:30,560 --> 00:50:33,680
Speaker 1: aesthetic charm I think to like low budget filmmaking. You know,

836
00:50:33,680 --> 00:50:36,000
Speaker 1: it was like never good, but there was this kind

837
00:50:36,000 --> 00:50:39,200
Speaker 1: of like fun culture around it, right, Like the kind

838
00:50:39,200 --> 00:50:44,480
Speaker 1: of sillier a like you know, videotape cover or poster

839
00:50:44,840 --> 00:50:47,279
Speaker 1: was like the more compelled I felt to be like

840
00:50:47,440 --> 00:50:49,840
Speaker 1: hell yeah, I want to grab this, you know. Um.

841
00:50:49,880 --> 00:50:53,160
Speaker 1: And like even today, this kind of like retro culture

842
00:50:53,200 --> 00:50:55,560
Speaker 1: that kind of glamorizes that sort of like eighties low

843
00:50:55,560 --> 00:50:57,920
Speaker 1: budget thing is like huge right now. And I think

844
00:50:57,960 --> 00:51:00,120
Speaker 1: it's huge for a reason, you know, I think, you know,

845
00:51:00,160 --> 00:51:02,360
Speaker 1: even if it doesn't measure up to like the quality

846
00:51:02,400 --> 00:51:05,600
Speaker 1: of proper filmmaking, it stands on his own as like

847
00:51:05,640 --> 00:51:09,440
Speaker 1: its own sort of valuable genre. I think, But well

848
00:51:09,480 --> 00:51:13,080
Speaker 1: it's worth something like, um, this is maybe a dated

849
00:51:13,160 --> 00:51:16,000
Speaker 1: reference in a different way, but something like the Grindhouse,

850
00:51:16,040 --> 00:51:19,800
Speaker 1: the Rebert Rodriguez Quentin Tarantino double feature kind of misses

851
00:51:19,840 --> 00:51:23,640
Speaker 1: the mark for me, because like I I appreciate, I

852
00:51:23,719 --> 00:51:26,000
Speaker 1: kind of I don't know, empathize with with the love

853
00:51:26,080 --> 00:51:32,080
Speaker 1: letter to these maybe like hokier tropes of of older

854
00:51:32,200 --> 00:51:36,480
Speaker 1: B movies. But it's it's just like a little insincere.

855
00:51:37,280 --> 00:51:39,239
Speaker 1: Maybe that's the wrong word. It's it's just to make

856
00:51:39,440 --> 00:51:45,239
Speaker 1: of maybe a little too much polish, you know, the

857
00:51:45,280 --> 00:51:48,640
Speaker 1: polish to make it look bad doesn't come through in

858
00:51:48,640 --> 00:51:50,400
Speaker 1: the same way that you know that it doesn't in

859
00:51:50,440 --> 00:51:54,359
Speaker 1: the original. Yeah, that's another like topic I think is

860
00:51:54,400 --> 00:51:56,960
Speaker 1: this thing about like camp. You know, camp is usually

861
00:51:57,040 --> 00:51:59,879
Speaker 1: like unintentionally being bad, usually as a result of being

862
00:52:00,000 --> 00:52:03,440
Speaker 1: a budget and you can't like fake camp, right, like

863
00:52:03,520 --> 00:52:06,080
Speaker 1: you can't fake low budget. I don't know, and some

864
00:52:06,200 --> 00:52:09,120
Speaker 1: people do that, Like I think, um, you know, the

865
00:52:09,400 --> 00:52:12,440
Speaker 1: certain things like Shark Nado or whatever, like attempts to

866
00:52:12,560 --> 00:52:15,279
Speaker 1: be bad on purpose and it just comes off being

867
00:52:15,280 --> 00:52:18,040
Speaker 1: cringe e to me at least, like it just has

868
00:52:18,080 --> 00:52:20,080
Speaker 1: to be that authentically right, it has to be like

869
00:52:20,120 --> 00:52:23,200
Speaker 1: a happy mistake where it's not real or it doesn't count,

870
00:52:23,239 --> 00:52:27,160
Speaker 1: you know. I think Catherine cold Iron's point, Um she

871
00:52:27,280 --> 00:52:29,719
Speaker 1: brings up Shark Nado. It really resonated with me too.

872
00:52:29,760 --> 00:52:33,440
Speaker 1: That like the overall impression that you get from him

873
00:52:33,520 --> 00:52:38,560
Speaker 1: like that is cynicism. And the impression that you get

874
00:52:38,920 --> 00:52:43,360
Speaker 1: from an Edward movie is kind of like a muddled

875
00:52:43,360 --> 00:52:47,920
Speaker 1: hopeless optimism. Yeah, and I guess I I opt for

876
00:52:47,960 --> 00:52:50,200
Speaker 1: the ladder. The ladder seems like more of a good

877
00:52:50,200 --> 00:52:52,920
Speaker 1: time to me, like a better date, a better night

878
00:52:52,960 --> 00:52:56,960
Speaker 1: in Yeah. Maybe on that note, than um, I don't

879
00:52:57,000 --> 00:52:58,120
Speaker 1: know what are you? What do you? Guys? Just like?

880
00:52:58,200 --> 00:53:02,279
Speaker 1: Favorite things about watching an Edward movie the end, Paul Mark,

881
00:53:02,400 --> 00:53:05,840
Speaker 1: Paul Marco. He plays the same character over and over again. Kelton,

882
00:53:05,920 --> 00:53:08,040
Speaker 1: He's like the real Like, oh jeez, why do I

883
00:53:08,080 --> 00:53:11,760
Speaker 1: gotta go out to the cemetery again. It's the same character.

884
00:53:11,960 --> 00:53:15,640
Speaker 1: It's like Proud of the Monster, Plan nine and Night

885
00:53:15,680 --> 00:53:18,200
Speaker 1: of the Goals. It's the exact same character. He's referencing

886
00:53:18,239 --> 00:53:21,520
Speaker 1: things that's happened in the previous movies and stuff. He's

887
00:53:21,560 --> 00:53:24,640
Speaker 1: got a really good scene actually in um Night of

888
00:53:24,640 --> 00:53:26,680
Speaker 1: the Goals. They give him they give him a little

889
00:53:26,719 --> 00:53:28,400
Speaker 1: bit Night of the Goals, like he actually has some

890
00:53:28,480 --> 00:53:32,080
Speaker 1: character in that one. Yeah, I think to echo, I

891
00:53:32,120 --> 00:53:34,879
Speaker 1: think my favorite thing is just the characters that he's

892
00:53:34,920 --> 00:53:37,160
Speaker 1: able to bring on. I think there's just so many

893
00:53:37,200 --> 00:53:40,480
Speaker 1: memorable people. I mean, I love Chriswell for how cheesy

894
00:53:40,520 --> 00:53:43,120
Speaker 1: he is, you know, I love Paul Marco for how

895
00:53:43,160 --> 00:53:47,960
Speaker 1: silly he is. Yeah, Yeah, I mean obviously towards Johnson

896
00:53:48,000 --> 00:53:50,560
Speaker 1: for just being like absolutely unhinged all the time. I

897
00:53:50,560 --> 00:53:52,319
Speaker 1: don't think he ever says well, no, I was gonna say,

898
00:53:52,320 --> 00:53:54,120
Speaker 1: I don't think he ever says any actual words in

899
00:53:54,120 --> 00:53:56,279
Speaker 1: any Edward movie. But there's like a short period in

900
00:53:56,280 --> 00:53:58,280
Speaker 1: Plan nine where he's like a cop at the beginning.

901
00:53:58,719 --> 00:54:02,920
Speaker 1: It says a couple of lines very badly, but otherwise,

902
00:54:02,960 --> 00:54:05,240
Speaker 1: like I love that that he's just like constantly screaming.

903
00:54:05,280 --> 00:54:08,640
Speaker 1: Like Edwards screen direction was just like go out there

904
00:54:08,640 --> 00:54:12,279
Speaker 1: and grunt and like slap them, and you know, I

905
00:54:12,320 --> 00:54:15,239
Speaker 1: have a good time, and as a result, I have

906
00:54:15,280 --> 00:54:19,319
Speaker 1: a good time. So I rewatched the riff tracks Plan

907
00:54:19,440 --> 00:54:21,680
Speaker 1: nine from out of his Face and it's just like

908
00:54:21,719 --> 00:54:23,480
Speaker 1: you see every time he hits somebody that movie, it's

909
00:54:23,520 --> 00:54:26,640
Speaker 1: just like he pats them. Yeah, he's just like open handed.

910
00:54:26,680 --> 00:54:31,840
Speaker 1: Like I love the Bale of the Ghost See and

911
00:54:31,840 --> 00:54:35,080
Speaker 1: all of it. I just love Balor the Ghost See,

912
00:54:35,080 --> 00:54:36,839
Speaker 1: even his little bit in Plan nine and the News

913
00:54:37,040 --> 00:54:38,840
Speaker 1: when he's replaced by the person that is like a

914
00:54:38,880 --> 00:54:42,000
Speaker 1: foot taller than him covering their face. Yeah, I love that.

915
00:54:42,040 --> 00:54:45,080
Speaker 1: They like made a a point to highlight that in

916
00:54:45,120 --> 00:54:48,040
Speaker 1: the Edward Timburton movie, right, like he just like meets

917
00:54:48,080 --> 00:54:50,200
Speaker 1: the guy in the diner. He's like, you look just

918
00:54:50,280 --> 00:54:52,759
Speaker 1: like I mean, like holds the thing up to cover

919
00:54:52,840 --> 00:54:55,440
Speaker 1: his mouth. I agree. I think bellele ghost. He is

920
00:54:55,440 --> 00:54:57,640
Speaker 1: another one of those characters who just like really makes

921
00:54:57,640 --> 00:54:59,879
Speaker 1: it happen. I know you were talking about the pull

922
00:54:59,880 --> 00:55:02,680
Speaker 1: the strings Stephen Glennar Glenda, but I can't help it.

923
00:55:02,800 --> 00:55:05,320
Speaker 1: It's great. It's a great scene. It's when it stands

924
00:55:05,360 --> 00:55:08,480
Speaker 1: at my head, You're just like you sit and you say,

925
00:55:08,920 --> 00:55:11,760
Speaker 1: what did he How did this end up in this movie?

926
00:55:11,760 --> 00:55:15,239
Speaker 1: Why are why are these the same film? And it's

927
00:55:15,239 --> 00:55:17,759
Speaker 1: one of the great mysteries. It's one of the great

928
00:55:17,800 --> 00:55:21,520
Speaker 1: mysteries that Edward left behind unanswered. I will say another

929
00:55:21,560 --> 00:55:23,920
Speaker 1: thing that I really do love is it's kind of

930
00:55:23,960 --> 00:55:26,600
Speaker 1: like the same cast of actors through and through on

931
00:55:26,680 --> 00:55:29,279
Speaker 1: all the films, because it kind of gives you that

932
00:55:29,320 --> 00:55:32,399
Speaker 1: feel like it was like, you know, like friends and

933
00:55:32,719 --> 00:55:35,520
Speaker 1: friends making films together and stuff. Because it's obviously toward

934
00:55:35,600 --> 00:55:39,640
Speaker 1: Johnson and Paul Marco, but like, uh, you got like

935
00:55:39,719 --> 00:55:42,040
Speaker 1: Duke Moore is in a bunch of them and stuff.

936
00:55:42,080 --> 00:55:45,120
Speaker 1: It's just like I like that whole like they were

937
00:55:45,160 --> 00:55:47,480
Speaker 1: all a team together making these things and doing the

938
00:55:47,480 --> 00:55:50,600
Speaker 1: best they could, and unfortunately the best they could was

939
00:55:50,680 --> 00:55:53,399
Speaker 1: Planned nine from Outer Space. I wouldn't have it any

940
00:55:53,400 --> 00:55:56,240
Speaker 1: other way. I'm glad it happened exactly the way it did. Frankly,

941
00:55:57,200 --> 00:56:00,520
Speaker 1: I do I do wish that had I don't. I

942
00:56:00,600 --> 00:56:02,359
Speaker 1: don't know what more of a chance looks like, because

943
00:56:02,360 --> 00:56:04,359
Speaker 1: he got to make like nine films or something, but

944
00:56:04,520 --> 00:56:08,480
Speaker 1: he had such a sad ending to his life. Um yeah.

945
00:56:08,520 --> 00:56:11,040
Speaker 1: I think a couple of people said in the episodes

946
00:56:11,920 --> 00:56:13,759
Speaker 1: that you know, he probably would have had like a

947
00:56:13,880 --> 00:56:16,640
Speaker 1: really big, like cult revival potentially like a second wind

948
00:56:16,640 --> 00:56:19,600
Speaker 1: of a career in the like eighties nineties had he

949
00:56:20,000 --> 00:56:22,640
Speaker 1: been alive, And I see that as being very true.

950
00:56:22,640 --> 00:56:25,520
Speaker 1: I think people would have absolutely loved some new Edward

951
00:56:25,560 --> 00:56:27,880
Speaker 1: stuff in the eighties, you know. I mean they are

952
00:56:28,120 --> 00:56:31,640
Speaker 1: according to IMDb at least there is an ed Wood

953
00:56:31,800 --> 00:56:35,120
Speaker 1: film coming Grave rovers from out of Space, which is

954
00:56:35,920 --> 00:56:40,040
Speaker 1: you know, kind of nine. Yeah, but like there's also

955
00:56:40,120 --> 00:56:43,799
Speaker 1: like the Firstsaken Western's Crossroad of Avenger, which was that

956
00:56:43,840 --> 00:56:45,880
Speaker 1: seriously he had worked on for like they made a

957
00:56:46,960 --> 00:56:49,360
Speaker 1: I don't know an episode out of it in seventeen,

958
00:56:49,480 --> 00:56:51,759
Speaker 1: so you know, there's still people out there trying to like,

959
00:56:51,800 --> 00:56:53,799
Speaker 1: you know, I guess preserve it. I mean, I don't

960
00:56:53,800 --> 00:56:56,279
Speaker 1: know how real all this stuff is, but he's giving

961
00:56:56,320 --> 00:56:58,960
Speaker 1: credit as a writer on a lot of this stuff. Yeah,

962
00:56:59,000 --> 00:57:02,600
Speaker 1: that's a good point. I mean, Ed's interesting from a

963
00:57:02,640 --> 00:57:05,080
Speaker 1: point of view of lost media. For sure. I would

964
00:57:05,080 --> 00:57:06,879
Speaker 1: not be surprised if there are tons and tons of

965
00:57:07,160 --> 00:57:10,080
Speaker 1: movies and scripts and things like sitting in warehouses that

966
00:57:10,120 --> 00:57:11,719
Speaker 1: we don't know about that are going to come to

967
00:57:11,800 --> 00:57:15,160
Speaker 1: light in upcoming years, you know, especially with like the

968
00:57:15,160 --> 00:57:18,600
Speaker 1: Internet and like the huge like Edwood community online. I

969
00:57:18,640 --> 00:57:21,400
Speaker 1: would be very surprised if those things don't start surfacing

970
00:57:21,600 --> 00:57:27,320
Speaker 1: and getting funded somehow or whatever. So last question then, right,

971
00:57:27,920 --> 00:57:30,360
Speaker 1: the show is called ephemeral. Do you guys own any

972
00:57:30,480 --> 00:57:33,919
Speaker 1: Edward Ephebora. I feel like we probably have planed nine

973
00:57:33,920 --> 00:57:37,880
Speaker 1: on VHS. Oh, I think we do. Yeah. I mean

974
00:57:37,960 --> 00:57:40,440
Speaker 1: by we, I mean the Williams family. My father has

975
00:57:40,480 --> 00:57:43,240
Speaker 1: a closet full of VHS tapes, and I think probably

976
00:57:43,280 --> 00:57:46,440
Speaker 1: there's a plan nine VHS. I mean I don't think

977
00:57:46,480 --> 00:57:49,600
Speaker 1: he has anything else of than that. I mean, I

978
00:57:49,600 --> 00:57:51,760
Speaker 1: don't think we had brought of the monster, and definitely

979
00:57:51,800 --> 00:57:56,360
Speaker 1: don't wouldn't have Glenard Glendah. Yeah, I've got some some

980
00:57:56,440 --> 00:57:59,880
Speaker 1: VHS tapes over there. I think I've got Plan nine

981
00:58:00,360 --> 00:58:03,680
Speaker 1: right of Monster Glen or Gonda, and I think I

982
00:58:03,680 --> 00:58:05,840
Speaker 1: actually have the Tim Burton movie on HS as well.

983
00:58:06,000 --> 00:58:09,840
Speaker 1: But oh so do we you know, the biopic. All

984
00:58:09,880 --> 00:58:12,760
Speaker 1: of these were just like regular watching for like in

985
00:58:12,800 --> 00:58:15,400
Speaker 1: our family we would watch stuff like The Blob and

986
00:58:15,480 --> 00:58:19,200
Speaker 1: like Creature from the Black Lagoon, and like, these are

987
00:58:19,240 --> 00:58:21,680
Speaker 1: just like movies that we would just watch regularly as

988
00:58:21,720 --> 00:58:26,160
Speaker 1: a family. And h Edward, especially Planned nine, but the

989
00:58:26,160 --> 00:58:29,040
Speaker 1: other Edward films too, and the Edward biopic. We're all

990
00:58:29,080 --> 00:58:30,840
Speaker 1: films that we watched a lot as a family, and

991
00:58:30,880 --> 00:58:32,440
Speaker 1: we sit around, you know, at the dinner table. I

992
00:58:32,480 --> 00:58:36,960
Speaker 1: could say something like Edi, make me Goolash, but I

993
00:58:36,960 --> 00:58:41,280
Speaker 1: don't know how to make Kolash Balat and my favor,

994
00:58:41,360 --> 00:58:43,720
Speaker 1: my favorite one from that movie. And Martin Landa, I

995
00:58:43,800 --> 00:58:45,880
Speaker 1: think we won the Oscar for it, and he sure

996
00:58:45,960 --> 00:58:47,760
Speaker 1: did deserve it because he did such a good job.

997
00:58:47,840 --> 00:58:50,680
Speaker 1: He brought so much humanity but also so much creepiness

998
00:58:50,760 --> 00:58:55,120
Speaker 1: to that role. Um and camp is what he's sitting

999
00:58:55,120 --> 00:58:57,880
Speaker 1: there looking at the TV trying to command the TV

1000
00:58:58,560 --> 00:59:00,920
Speaker 1: and doing this weird thing with his hand, and and

1001
00:59:01,480 --> 00:59:04,360
Speaker 1: Johnny Depp Edwood is like, oh my god, Bella, how

1002
00:59:04,360 --> 00:59:06,439
Speaker 1: do you do that? He's like, you have to boot

1003
00:59:06,480 --> 00:59:13,720
Speaker 1: double jointed Hungarian. My favorite of force is Carlin off

1004
00:59:14,400 --> 00:59:24,200
Speaker 1: Sidekick God Love Sucker. Yeah. Anytime Bella Let's character like

1005
00:59:24,560 --> 00:59:28,000
Speaker 1: cusses or or said some something derogatory about someone else,

1006
00:59:28,040 --> 00:59:39,360
Speaker 1: it's just gold. This episode of Ephemeral was written and

1007
00:59:39,400 --> 00:59:43,400
Speaker 1: produced by Trevor Young, with producers Max and Alex Williams.

1008
00:59:44,040 --> 00:59:47,240
Speaker 1: Bill Shoot is a writer and professor of English at

1009
00:59:47,240 --> 00:59:50,720
Speaker 1: San Antonio College. He also wrote the introduction for the

1010
00:59:50,760 --> 00:59:54,560
Speaker 1: new book of posthumously released essays by ed Wood When

1011
00:59:54,600 --> 00:59:58,640
Speaker 1: the Topic Is Sex. Bob Blackburn is a family friend

1012
00:59:58,640 --> 01:00:01,400
Speaker 1: of the Woods who edited it and compiled the stories

1013
01:00:01,440 --> 01:00:04,120
Speaker 1: for When the Topic Is Sex, which you can find

1014
01:00:04,320 --> 01:00:07,800
Speaker 1: on bare Manner Media's website or wherever books are sold.

1015
01:00:08,680 --> 01:00:11,640
Speaker 1: And Catherine cold Iron is author of the book Plan

1016
01:00:11,800 --> 01:00:15,280
Speaker 1: nine from Outer Space. See more of her work at

1017
01:00:15,360 --> 01:00:19,720
Speaker 1: k cold Iron dot com. You also heard from screenwriter

1018
01:00:20,000 --> 01:00:25,480
Speaker 1: Larry Karazowski, who co wrote film ed Wood Big. Thanks

1019
01:00:25,520 --> 01:00:28,440
Speaker 1: to the Secret Movie Club in Los Angeles for hosting

1020
01:00:28,480 --> 01:00:31,360
Speaker 1: this Q and A and letting us record. You can

1021
01:00:31,440 --> 01:00:35,600
Speaker 1: check out their calendar at Secret Movie Club dot com.

1022
01:00:35,640 --> 01:00:39,320
Speaker 1: How do you feel about Edwood? Love him, hate him?

1023
01:00:39,480 --> 01:00:42,959
Speaker 1: Tell us why on social media. We're at Ephemeral Show

1024
01:00:43,760 --> 01:00:46,560
Speaker 1: and for more podcasts from I Heart Radio, visit the

1025
01:00:46,560 --> 01:00:50,600
Speaker 1: I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, wherever you listen to

1026
01:00:50,640 --> 01:01:02,400
Speaker 1: your favorite shows. If the desert had been above the

1027
01:01:02,560 --> 01:01:05,680
Speaker 1: coffently copingst the business of