1 00:00:06,960 --> 00:00:10,240 Speaker 1: Welcome to Creature, feature production of I Heart Radio. I'm 2 00:00:10,280 --> 00:00:14,080 Speaker 1: your host of Many Parasites, Katie Golden. I studied psychology 3 00:00:14,080 --> 00:00:17,880 Speaker 1: and evolutionary biology, and today on the show we're talking 4 00:00:17,880 --> 00:00:22,320 Speaker 1: about all the beautiful colors and nature. Blues and greens 5 00:00:22,320 --> 00:00:27,120 Speaker 1: and reds and browns and purples and ultra violet. There 6 00:00:27,120 --> 00:00:29,920 Speaker 1: are so many colors in the annual Kingdom and in 7 00:00:29,960 --> 00:00:34,800 Speaker 1: the natural world. But it is really interesting how these 8 00:00:34,840 --> 00:00:39,239 Speaker 1: colors are actually produced, and it's not always straightforward, and 9 00:00:39,320 --> 00:00:43,560 Speaker 1: in fact, what we see with our human eyeballs may 10 00:00:43,600 --> 00:00:47,800 Speaker 1: not be what other animals see with their incredible eyeballs. 11 00:00:48,400 --> 00:00:51,680 Speaker 1: Discover this and more as we answer the age old 12 00:00:51,800 --> 00:00:56,480 Speaker 1: question is there a berry that's so incredibly blue it's 13 00:00:56,520 --> 00:01:00,400 Speaker 1: just gonna trick you into doing its dirty work? Joining 14 00:01:00,400 --> 00:01:04,040 Speaker 1: me today is friend of the podcast who I have 15 00:01:04,160 --> 00:01:07,920 Speaker 1: been on his podcast quite a bit. Post of the 16 00:01:08,080 --> 00:01:13,120 Speaker 1: Amazing Physics podcast Daniel and Jorge explain the Universe and 17 00:01:13,240 --> 00:01:18,280 Speaker 1: particle physicist Daniel whiteson Welcome. Hello, Hello, very glad to 18 00:01:18,319 --> 00:01:20,840 Speaker 1: be here. Although I can't boast to be host to 19 00:01:20,920 --> 00:01:24,800 Speaker 1: any parasites as far as I know, as far as 20 00:01:24,840 --> 00:01:29,120 Speaker 1: you know, although you probably have some demodecs parasites on 21 00:01:29,200 --> 00:01:33,240 Speaker 1: your eyelashes, as do most people. I contain multitudes. I 22 00:01:33,240 --> 00:01:37,200 Speaker 1: suppose little societies living on our eyelashes. Is there anything 23 00:01:37,280 --> 00:01:40,720 Speaker 1: cuter than that? Well, me and my little societies are 24 00:01:40,800 --> 00:01:42,839 Speaker 1: very excited to be here to talk to you about 25 00:01:42,880 --> 00:01:46,520 Speaker 1: colors in the natural world. Yes, so I thought this 26 00:01:46,560 --> 00:01:49,600 Speaker 1: would be right up your alley, because we are talking 27 00:01:49,640 --> 00:01:54,680 Speaker 1: about the physics of colors in nature. Because you know, 28 00:01:54,920 --> 00:01:58,240 Speaker 1: when you see a color, it feels pretty straightforward that 29 00:01:58,360 --> 00:02:02,280 Speaker 1: thing is just somehow painted that color. But it is 30 00:02:02,360 --> 00:02:07,840 Speaker 1: actually much more complex how it works in nature. Things 31 00:02:07,840 --> 00:02:11,920 Speaker 1: aren't just kind of painted with a paintbrush. And in fact, 32 00:02:12,080 --> 00:02:15,520 Speaker 1: there are some incredible ways that colors present themselves, in 33 00:02:15,520 --> 00:02:19,280 Speaker 1: incredible ways that animals will perceive these colors like an 34 00:02:19,480 --> 00:02:24,480 Speaker 1: entirely hidden secret world that we never really knew about 35 00:02:24,600 --> 00:02:30,880 Speaker 1: until researchers started investigating it. So first we will go 36 00:02:31,200 --> 00:02:36,040 Speaker 1: over how color exists in living organisms. So this is 37 00:02:36,240 --> 00:02:40,359 Speaker 1: an animals and plants, even fungi. There are a few 38 00:02:40,440 --> 00:02:47,280 Speaker 1: ways that color occurs. So when you think of color 39 00:02:47,360 --> 00:02:51,000 Speaker 1: in the natural Kingdom, Daniel, what what do you think of? Like, 40 00:02:51,040 --> 00:02:53,080 Speaker 1: what is sort of the first thing that comes to mind. 41 00:02:54,520 --> 00:02:57,959 Speaker 1: I think of the incredible colors of flowers and the 42 00:02:58,040 --> 00:03:02,120 Speaker 1: incredible colors of insects and words, and I wonder why 43 00:03:02,160 --> 00:03:05,240 Speaker 1: they're there and whether those animals see them the same 44 00:03:05,240 --> 00:03:08,320 Speaker 1: way we do. You know. I wonder why we live 45 00:03:08,360 --> 00:03:11,239 Speaker 1: in a world that we find beautiful, if we could 46 00:03:11,280 --> 00:03:13,520 Speaker 1: have evolved in a world that we found like boring 47 00:03:13,760 --> 00:03:16,880 Speaker 1: and drab, or if we just sort of naturally react 48 00:03:16,880 --> 00:03:21,960 Speaker 1: to any world we discover with amazement and satisfaction. Yeah, 49 00:03:22,000 --> 00:03:24,639 Speaker 1: this is what's so interesting to me, because I think 50 00:03:25,080 --> 00:03:28,840 Speaker 1: one tempting thing to think is that humans are the 51 00:03:28,919 --> 00:03:33,720 Speaker 1: only animals capable of appreciating beauty and color in the world, 52 00:03:34,040 --> 00:03:37,840 Speaker 1: that we're the only ones who, you know, really enjoy 53 00:03:38,040 --> 00:03:41,040 Speaker 1: the site of a flower. But as we'll talk about, 54 00:03:41,120 --> 00:03:44,400 Speaker 1: that may not really be true that we One of 55 00:03:44,400 --> 00:03:48,400 Speaker 1: the things that we may share with many other animals 56 00:03:48,520 --> 00:03:52,600 Speaker 1: is their dependence on color, their appreciation for it, and 57 00:03:52,640 --> 00:03:56,200 Speaker 1: how that beauty of the world serves a very important 58 00:03:56,280 --> 00:04:02,360 Speaker 1: function for for organism survive all. So, there are two 59 00:04:02,880 --> 00:04:07,960 Speaker 1: main types of color in the animal kingdom, pigments and 60 00:04:08,160 --> 00:04:15,160 Speaker 1: structural coloration. So pigments. Pigmentation is pretty straightforward and probably 61 00:04:15,200 --> 00:04:17,560 Speaker 1: what you think of when you think of something that 62 00:04:17,640 --> 00:04:22,040 Speaker 1: has some color to it. So pigments are substances produced 63 00:04:22,080 --> 00:04:26,960 Speaker 1: by cells that will absorb certain certain wavelengths of light. 64 00:04:27,560 --> 00:04:31,760 Speaker 1: The light that is not absorbed is reflected back to 65 00:04:32,080 --> 00:04:36,800 Speaker 1: your eyes. So that's how you see something that is pigmented, 66 00:04:37,120 --> 00:04:40,720 Speaker 1: how you see that color. So pigments can be found 67 00:04:40,720 --> 00:04:44,880 Speaker 1: in nearly every organism, from flowers to birds, to fish, 68 00:04:44,920 --> 00:04:48,840 Speaker 1: to mammals to fungi. It's everywhere in the animal kingdom, 69 00:04:48,960 --> 00:04:53,520 Speaker 1: and that is typically what gives things their color. And 70 00:04:53,680 --> 00:04:57,120 Speaker 1: you say that simplistic, but actually aren't there several fascinating 71 00:04:57,240 --> 00:05:00,479 Speaker 1: levels of signs there? I mean, as the physical is here, 72 00:05:00,760 --> 00:05:03,960 Speaker 1: it amazes me to think about, like the microscopic process 73 00:05:04,040 --> 00:05:07,880 Speaker 1: that happens when your eyes sees red. I remember as 74 00:05:07,880 --> 00:05:11,200 Speaker 1: a kid thinking about, like what is red about that light? 75 00:05:11,520 --> 00:05:14,479 Speaker 1: Is the light itself? Red is happening in my head? 76 00:05:14,520 --> 00:05:17,159 Speaker 1: That makes me feel red? Did somebody else see red 77 00:05:17,240 --> 00:05:19,880 Speaker 1: the same way? There's a whole lot of really fascinating 78 00:05:19,960 --> 00:05:25,200 Speaker 1: questions there. Yeah. Absolutely, it's really interesting too to think 79 00:05:25,240 --> 00:05:28,440 Speaker 1: about how something that is a certain color, like something 80 00:05:28,480 --> 00:05:33,080 Speaker 1: that is red, it's actually that is it is rejecting 81 00:05:33,200 --> 00:05:36,919 Speaker 1: the red wavelength that is the one color that is 82 00:05:36,960 --> 00:05:40,720 Speaker 1: not there is red, because that red is reflecting back 83 00:05:40,800 --> 00:05:43,200 Speaker 1: at you and that's why you see it as red. 84 00:05:43,600 --> 00:05:47,120 Speaker 1: But it's actually absorbing the other wavelengths of light. So 85 00:05:47,600 --> 00:05:51,240 Speaker 1: like in a strange kind of way, the only color 86 00:05:51,360 --> 00:05:54,400 Speaker 1: that it isn't isn't part of it is the color 87 00:05:54,480 --> 00:05:57,800 Speaker 1: that you see. Yeah, And I think for a long time, 88 00:05:57,839 --> 00:06:01,160 Speaker 1: people didn't know how vision worked. They didn't understand whether 89 00:06:01,560 --> 00:06:04,320 Speaker 1: light was being bounced off of things and hitting your eye. 90 00:06:04,680 --> 00:06:06,400 Speaker 1: And for a long time people were wondering if your 91 00:06:06,400 --> 00:06:10,080 Speaker 1: eyeball actually shot out rays which then bounced off something 92 00:06:10,120 --> 00:06:12,960 Speaker 1: like sampling it and came back to your eye. You know, 93 00:06:13,000 --> 00:06:15,440 Speaker 1: back before we understood how light worked, people have to 94 00:06:15,440 --> 00:06:18,280 Speaker 1: think about all sorts of crazy ideas. But I think 95 00:06:18,279 --> 00:06:21,240 Speaker 1: it's really cool to think about the actual photons. Like 96 00:06:21,720 --> 00:06:23,359 Speaker 1: if a photon hits your eye and you see it 97 00:06:23,400 --> 00:06:25,159 Speaker 1: as blue, or another one hits your eye and you 98 00:06:25,160 --> 00:06:27,960 Speaker 1: see it as red. And what's the actual difference in 99 00:06:28,000 --> 00:06:30,840 Speaker 1: the photons? As you said, it's the wavelength, it's how 100 00:06:30,960 --> 00:06:33,960 Speaker 1: fast they wiggle. They all travel the same speed, but 101 00:06:34,040 --> 00:06:36,560 Speaker 1: they have different speeds at which they wiggle, so they 102 00:06:36,560 --> 00:06:39,760 Speaker 1: have different wavelengths. But you know, there's an infinite spectrum 103 00:06:39,839 --> 00:06:43,200 Speaker 1: of wavelengths, like a photon can have any wavelength of 104 00:06:43,279 --> 00:06:46,200 Speaker 1: light that just changes how much energy it has. But 105 00:06:46,279 --> 00:06:48,839 Speaker 1: how you see it, whether it's blue or red or green, 106 00:06:49,120 --> 00:06:51,680 Speaker 1: that's just is how your brain is interpreting it inside 107 00:06:51,680 --> 00:06:55,520 Speaker 1: your head. Yeah, that's really interesting to me because there 108 00:06:55,520 --> 00:06:59,120 Speaker 1: really is. When you think about it, it's there aren't 109 00:06:59,200 --> 00:07:02,480 Speaker 1: distinct colors, right, There aren't just a certain number of 110 00:07:02,600 --> 00:07:08,400 Speaker 1: distinct colors. There is likely sort of infinite gradient of colorations, 111 00:07:08,400 --> 00:07:13,760 Speaker 1: but we can only maybe distinguish a small fraction of 112 00:07:13,840 --> 00:07:16,960 Speaker 1: those colors that we see because of the limitations of 113 00:07:17,600 --> 00:07:21,120 Speaker 1: our our eyeballs, which, even though I'm saying limitations are 114 00:07:21,120 --> 00:07:24,680 Speaker 1: eyeballs are one of the most incredibly complex organ in 115 00:07:24,680 --> 00:07:28,600 Speaker 1: our bodies. And it's really interesting. It is really fascinating. 116 00:07:28,880 --> 00:07:31,760 Speaker 1: And I remember as a kid wondering if colors are 117 00:07:31,840 --> 00:07:34,320 Speaker 1: just in my head, if my mind is sort of 118 00:07:34,360 --> 00:07:37,640 Speaker 1: painting red inside my mind's eye when that photon hits, 119 00:07:38,080 --> 00:07:40,600 Speaker 1: could my mind come up with a new color? Could 120 00:07:40,640 --> 00:07:43,880 Speaker 1: I invent some new color that hasn't wasn't inspired by 121 00:07:43,920 --> 00:07:45,840 Speaker 1: something I saw, wasn't like, you know, the color of 122 00:07:45,880 --> 00:07:48,960 Speaker 1: a bees butt, or something, um, but I never managed 123 00:07:49,000 --> 00:07:51,240 Speaker 1: to do it. Maybe I'm just not creative enough. I 124 00:07:51,400 --> 00:07:53,480 Speaker 1: tried to do that too. I tried to think of 125 00:07:53,520 --> 00:07:56,920 Speaker 1: a new color, and I never really could. But we will, 126 00:07:57,280 --> 00:07:59,360 Speaker 1: you know later. I'm so excited to talk about this 127 00:07:59,360 --> 00:08:02,200 Speaker 1: because we will talk about some people who may actually 128 00:08:02,200 --> 00:08:06,240 Speaker 1: be able to see color that doesn't really exist for 129 00:08:06,680 --> 00:08:11,640 Speaker 1: other people. And yes, in short, basically all of our experience, 130 00:08:11,720 --> 00:08:15,400 Speaker 1: right from touch to taste to color, is happening inside 131 00:08:15,400 --> 00:08:19,240 Speaker 1: of our brains. So it is an interpretation of these 132 00:08:19,240 --> 00:08:22,520 Speaker 1: photons that wiggle at a certain wavelength and then they 133 00:08:22,640 --> 00:08:25,320 Speaker 1: hit the back of our eye, and then they hit 134 00:08:25,360 --> 00:08:29,640 Speaker 1: these photoreceptor cells and will sort of, if you think 135 00:08:29,680 --> 00:08:32,400 Speaker 1: about it, kind of like tickle certain cells, Like certain 136 00:08:32,440 --> 00:08:37,080 Speaker 1: wavelengths are able to create sort of a domino effect 137 00:08:37,200 --> 00:08:39,720 Speaker 1: for certain cells, and then that will be sent to 138 00:08:39,840 --> 00:08:45,520 Speaker 1: the brain via a bundle of nerves and then that 139 00:08:45,640 --> 00:08:47,360 Speaker 1: is what creates the color. And it's just it's like 140 00:08:47,400 --> 00:08:52,320 Speaker 1: the most intricate Rube Goldberg device uh at work there 141 00:08:52,360 --> 00:08:54,800 Speaker 1: every time you see any kind of color, and it's 142 00:08:54,800 --> 00:08:57,320 Speaker 1: so helpful, right, And imagine if you couldn't see color 143 00:08:57,320 --> 00:08:59,559 Speaker 1: in the world, to be so much information out there 144 00:08:59,559 --> 00:09:02,880 Speaker 1: about the universe that you would just be missing. And 145 00:09:02,920 --> 00:09:05,120 Speaker 1: as you said earlier, there's lots of different wavelengths of 146 00:09:05,200 --> 00:09:07,440 Speaker 1: light that we don't see, which means there's a huge 147 00:09:07,440 --> 00:09:09,880 Speaker 1: amount of information about the universe that's out there that 148 00:09:09,920 --> 00:09:14,520 Speaker 1: we are just blind to. That's that's exactly right. And uh, yeah, 149 00:09:14,559 --> 00:09:17,440 Speaker 1: as we'll talk about really soon, there are animals that 150 00:09:17,559 --> 00:09:20,719 Speaker 1: can actually tap into that secret universe of colors that 151 00:09:20,880 --> 00:09:23,800 Speaker 1: we can only kind of conceive of. Yes, so even 152 00:09:23,800 --> 00:09:27,920 Speaker 1: though pigments are relatively straightforward, as we've talked about it is, 153 00:09:28,480 --> 00:09:32,559 Speaker 1: it's still an extremely complex, fascinating process that happens with 154 00:09:32,640 --> 00:09:37,560 Speaker 1: those So so, yes, they they are essentially their substances 155 00:09:37,640 --> 00:09:42,480 Speaker 1: produced by cells that will absorb wavelengths, and that the 156 00:09:42,520 --> 00:09:45,880 Speaker 1: wavelengths that they do not absorb, they reflect back out 157 00:09:45,920 --> 00:09:48,320 Speaker 1: and those hit our eye and we see that color. 158 00:09:48,920 --> 00:09:52,880 Speaker 1: But there's an there's a second type of coloration in 159 00:09:52,920 --> 00:09:58,200 Speaker 1: the animal world, in the natural world called structural coloration. 160 00:09:58,920 --> 00:10:04,080 Speaker 1: So these are microscopic structures that instead of absorbing light, 161 00:10:04,280 --> 00:10:09,280 Speaker 1: they will bend, refract or reflect light, causing certain wavelength 162 00:10:09,440 --> 00:10:12,880 Speaker 1: to separate and hit the eye. So they kind of 163 00:10:12,920 --> 00:10:17,400 Speaker 1: they scatter light rather than absorbing certain wavelengths. This is 164 00:10:17,440 --> 00:10:20,719 Speaker 1: super cool also because it's physics at work again. Right, 165 00:10:20,760 --> 00:10:23,040 Speaker 1: if you're familiar with a prism, then you know that 166 00:10:23,080 --> 00:10:25,680 Speaker 1: when white light hits it, white light being a mixture 167 00:10:25,720 --> 00:10:28,560 Speaker 1: of many different colors, that the different parts of that 168 00:10:28,600 --> 00:10:31,719 Speaker 1: white light bend at different angles because of their different frequencies. 169 00:10:31,720 --> 00:10:34,920 Speaker 1: This is something like that Newton demonstrated hundreds of years ago. 170 00:10:35,360 --> 00:10:37,280 Speaker 1: So it's pretty awesome that the natural world is like 171 00:10:37,600 --> 00:10:41,240 Speaker 1: scattering tiny prisms all over surfaces to change its color. 172 00:10:41,320 --> 00:10:44,120 Speaker 1: That's amazing. How do they do that sort of microscopically? 173 00:10:44,120 --> 00:10:47,120 Speaker 1: Are they actually like little prisms? Yeah? Yeah they are. 174 00:10:47,160 --> 00:10:50,959 Speaker 1: I mean think I think the Pink Floyd logo with 175 00:10:51,040 --> 00:10:54,920 Speaker 1: that it's pink Floyd. Right, you're gonna ask the physicist 176 00:10:55,040 --> 00:10:58,000 Speaker 1: for your pop science. Sorry, you're gonna ask the physicist 177 00:10:58,200 --> 00:11:03,319 Speaker 1: for your pop culture references. So you know that prism 178 00:11:03,440 --> 00:11:08,520 Speaker 1: will scatter light, and that is exactly right. They basically 179 00:11:08,559 --> 00:11:14,320 Speaker 1: have these tiny prisms. So these are common in things 180 00:11:14,360 --> 00:11:18,719 Speaker 1: like bird feathers or butterfly scales on their wings. So 181 00:11:18,800 --> 00:11:23,280 Speaker 1: have you ever seen like a morpho butterfly? I have 182 00:11:23,320 --> 00:11:27,840 Speaker 1: no idea what that is. It's this beautiful butterfly that 183 00:11:28,000 --> 00:11:33,080 Speaker 1: has this iridescent, bright, bright blue coloration on its wings, 184 00:11:33,160 --> 00:11:36,839 Speaker 1: and it's such a bright blue it looks like it's shimmering. 185 00:11:37,440 --> 00:11:40,120 Speaker 1: And it makes me think that these butterflies are maybe 186 00:11:40,120 --> 00:11:43,760 Speaker 1: where people got the idea of things like fairies or magic, 187 00:11:43,800 --> 00:11:47,880 Speaker 1: because it looks absurdly magical. So I'm a little confused 188 00:11:47,920 --> 00:11:50,760 Speaker 1: about how these structural things work, Like doesn't the color 189 00:11:50,840 --> 00:11:53,440 Speaker 1: of it then depend on the angle of it? Like, 190 00:11:53,800 --> 00:11:55,880 Speaker 1: is that why it's shimmering because if it turns a 191 00:11:55,880 --> 00:11:58,439 Speaker 1: little bit, the prisms are shooting red light in your 192 00:11:58,440 --> 00:12:01,920 Speaker 1: eye instead of yellow light or blue light. Yeah, that's right. 193 00:12:02,080 --> 00:12:08,160 Speaker 1: So some of these structures are such that they will 194 00:12:08,200 --> 00:12:14,160 Speaker 1: result in something like a predominantly blue wavelength because they're 195 00:12:14,200 --> 00:12:20,360 Speaker 1: structured that they basically amplify the blue wavelength through these 196 00:12:20,400 --> 00:12:24,800 Speaker 1: tiny prisms. But there are some of these prisms that 197 00:12:24,840 --> 00:12:30,040 Speaker 1: will result in an entire rainbow, and that color will 198 00:12:30,080 --> 00:12:34,440 Speaker 1: shift depending on the angle of your eye, the angle 199 00:12:34,559 --> 00:12:39,640 Speaker 1: at which you look at this organism. So there are actually, uh, 200 00:12:39,800 --> 00:12:45,800 Speaker 1: there are actually snakes that have these iridescent colors in 201 00:12:46,120 --> 00:12:50,079 Speaker 1: their scales that they look like a rainbow because they 202 00:12:50,120 --> 00:12:53,800 Speaker 1: are essentially these tiny prisms that are scattering light, and 203 00:12:53,840 --> 00:12:58,080 Speaker 1: you'll see the entire gradient through their scales, and it's 204 00:12:58,120 --> 00:13:00,840 Speaker 1: it's quite beautiful. You can actually see up somewhat even 205 00:13:00,920 --> 00:13:06,280 Speaker 1: with the common crow, where their feathers, these micro structures 206 00:13:06,280 --> 00:13:09,719 Speaker 1: on their feathers will basically scatter the light such that 207 00:13:09,760 --> 00:13:13,520 Speaker 1: you can see all of these different hues beyond just 208 00:13:13,640 --> 00:13:16,840 Speaker 1: the black of their feathers. You can see these other 209 00:13:17,000 --> 00:13:19,360 Speaker 1: hues of light if you view them at a certain angle. 210 00:13:20,080 --> 00:13:22,560 Speaker 1: That's right. Crows are awesome. They don't get enough love 211 00:13:22,679 --> 00:13:26,200 Speaker 1: I think from bird enthusiasts and from the population in general. 212 00:13:26,240 --> 00:13:29,280 Speaker 1: They're super smart. And they're not just black exactly, they're 213 00:13:29,320 --> 00:13:33,000 Speaker 1: like shimmering black. But what's the sort of history of that, Like, 214 00:13:33,440 --> 00:13:37,800 Speaker 1: have these different mechanisms for color pigmentation and structural did 215 00:13:37,800 --> 00:13:40,840 Speaker 1: they split off evolutionarily at some point? Are they totally 216 00:13:40,920 --> 00:13:43,600 Speaker 1: different ways to get color? Are they related to each other? 217 00:13:43,840 --> 00:13:48,280 Speaker 1: I would say that they are somewhat interwoven, because you 218 00:13:48,320 --> 00:13:54,600 Speaker 1: can have an animal that has both pigmentation and structural coloration, 219 00:13:54,840 --> 00:13:58,880 Speaker 1: So I think they're they basically worked together. So while 220 00:13:59,600 --> 00:14:04,079 Speaker 1: some some animals may not have a structural coloration too much, 221 00:14:04,160 --> 00:14:08,440 Speaker 1: or or maybe rely mostly on structural coloration instead of pigmentation. 222 00:14:08,880 --> 00:14:11,320 Speaker 1: You'll have many animals that will actually have both a 223 00:14:11,320 --> 00:14:14,559 Speaker 1: lot of birds, a lot of reptiles will have both 224 00:14:14,800 --> 00:14:20,800 Speaker 1: structural coloration as well as pigmentation and humans. In humans, 225 00:14:20,800 --> 00:14:25,240 Speaker 1: we mostly rely on pigmentation in terms of the coloration 226 00:14:25,400 --> 00:14:28,600 Speaker 1: for our skin and for our eyes and hair. But yeah, 227 00:14:28,680 --> 00:14:30,880 Speaker 1: and in a lot of other animals, you'll have this 228 00:14:31,040 --> 00:14:35,280 Speaker 1: really cool confluence of both of these. And I would 229 00:14:35,280 --> 00:14:41,000 Speaker 1: say that they probably I think that they're they would 230 00:14:41,040 --> 00:14:46,640 Speaker 1: probably in evolve in the pretty interleaved way because of 231 00:14:47,000 --> 00:14:49,840 Speaker 1: so there are some really interesting ways you can see this. 232 00:14:50,000 --> 00:14:56,080 Speaker 1: So in terms of the production of pigmentation in humans, 233 00:14:56,760 --> 00:15:01,680 Speaker 1: it is melanin produced by our melanna sites, and so 234 00:15:01,800 --> 00:15:05,360 Speaker 1: melano sites are a type of cell that produced the 235 00:15:05,480 --> 00:15:08,400 Speaker 1: color in our skin and our hair in our eyes. 236 00:15:09,240 --> 00:15:14,200 Speaker 1: But not all animals actually use melanno sites. They use chromatophores. 237 00:15:14,440 --> 00:15:19,920 Speaker 1: So chromatophores are the pigment producing cells of things like cephalopods, 238 00:15:19,960 --> 00:15:25,360 Speaker 1: so those are octopus, squid, cuttlefish. Chromatophores are also present 239 00:15:25,400 --> 00:15:32,160 Speaker 1: in reptiles, fish, amphibians, and more. And chromatophores have some 240 00:15:32,280 --> 00:15:37,400 Speaker 1: really interesting properties, and that is that they can use 241 00:15:37,440 --> 00:15:41,800 Speaker 1: both pigment and structural coloration, and in some of these 242 00:15:41,840 --> 00:15:46,160 Speaker 1: animals they can actually be dynamics. So most chromatophores just 243 00:15:46,280 --> 00:15:50,200 Speaker 1: simply produce a pigment and create color that way, but 244 00:15:50,400 --> 00:15:54,760 Speaker 1: some chromatophores will use structural coloration to produce hues by 245 00:15:54,800 --> 00:15:58,840 Speaker 1: scattering light that creates a very very vibrant version of 246 00:15:58,880 --> 00:16:04,200 Speaker 1: this color that to otherwise not be produced just by pigmentations. 247 00:16:04,320 --> 00:16:07,240 Speaker 1: So this can be seen in things like the bright 248 00:16:07,320 --> 00:16:10,760 Speaker 1: blue stripes of a zebra fish. Have you. They're actually 249 00:16:10,800 --> 00:16:14,840 Speaker 1: a very popular little aquarium fish. They're also called blue danios, 250 00:16:15,480 --> 00:16:18,600 Speaker 1: but they're these little, just little slips of fish, and 251 00:16:18,600 --> 00:16:21,800 Speaker 1: then they have these blue stripes and those blue are 252 00:16:21,840 --> 00:16:25,760 Speaker 1: these bright bright blue. It's hard to describe it without 253 00:16:25,840 --> 00:16:29,480 Speaker 1: seeing them in person, but it's similar to the morpho butterfly. 254 00:16:29,520 --> 00:16:33,440 Speaker 1: Where's that shimmery, shiny, bright blue. And that is a 255 00:16:33,480 --> 00:16:39,320 Speaker 1: result of both pigmentation and structural coloration that like amplifies 256 00:16:39,440 --> 00:16:43,840 Speaker 1: that blue. And like I was mentioning earlier, there are 257 00:16:43,920 --> 00:16:49,040 Speaker 1: those rainbow iridescent hues of the sunbeam snake that they 258 00:16:49,040 --> 00:16:54,440 Speaker 1: actually use guanting crystals in their cell structure to scatter light, 259 00:16:54,480 --> 00:16:57,960 Speaker 1: which is kind of amazing. It's this snake that has 260 00:16:58,040 --> 00:17:02,520 Speaker 1: these beautiful crystals that will amplify light and scatter it 261 00:17:02,640 --> 00:17:07,080 Speaker 1: so that you see these rainbow hues and chromatophores in 262 00:17:07,119 --> 00:17:11,600 Speaker 1: addition to both being able to produce structural and pigmentation, 263 00:17:12,160 --> 00:17:17,200 Speaker 1: can alter their shape and alter what pigment they are 264 00:17:17,280 --> 00:17:20,800 Speaker 1: producing in order to rapidly change color, which you see 265 00:17:21,200 --> 00:17:26,600 Speaker 1: in things like octopus, octopuses, and cuttle fish, and you 266 00:17:26,640 --> 00:17:31,000 Speaker 1: can also see it in things like chameleons. So yeah, 267 00:17:31,040 --> 00:17:34,960 Speaker 1: it is. It's you can see this incredible example of 268 00:17:35,000 --> 00:17:40,159 Speaker 1: how uh, pigmentation and structural coloration can work together to 269 00:17:40,480 --> 00:17:46,320 Speaker 1: create mind blowing colors in the natural world. And do 270 00:17:46,400 --> 00:17:49,320 Speaker 1: all these different creators use it for the same purpose. 271 00:17:49,680 --> 00:17:52,520 Speaker 1: I have a sort of simplistic understanding that sometimes birds 272 00:17:52,560 --> 00:17:55,720 Speaker 1: uses for like sexual selection, or flowers use it to 273 00:17:55,800 --> 00:17:59,960 Speaker 1: attract bees for example. Are the structural elements always using 274 00:18:00,000 --> 00:18:01,800 Speaker 1: the same way as the pigments or there a huge 275 00:18:01,880 --> 00:18:05,000 Speaker 1: variety in why these creators spend this energy to make 276 00:18:05,040 --> 00:18:08,359 Speaker 1: these amazing little structures. There is a huge variety of 277 00:18:08,560 --> 00:18:12,480 Speaker 1: purpose for these colors, So you're right, Like in birds, 278 00:18:12,480 --> 00:18:16,119 Speaker 1: often the coloration of birds comes down to looking pretty 279 00:18:16,240 --> 00:18:19,840 Speaker 1: for the opposite sex, for the male birds trying to 280 00:18:19,880 --> 00:18:21,920 Speaker 1: look very pretty for the females. There are a few 281 00:18:21,960 --> 00:18:25,159 Speaker 1: species where it's more equal, where both the females and 282 00:18:25,240 --> 00:18:29,040 Speaker 1: males are trying to look their prettiest. But in a 283 00:18:29,119 --> 00:18:33,680 Speaker 1: lot of animals, coloration can have many different uses, so 284 00:18:34,440 --> 00:18:38,359 Speaker 1: uh and chromatophores, because of how dynamic they are, actually 285 00:18:38,359 --> 00:18:43,920 Speaker 1: really illustrate this beautifully. So in octopuses or color cuttlefish, 286 00:18:44,040 --> 00:18:48,640 Speaker 1: you actually see that dynamic color shifting of their chromatophores 287 00:18:48,800 --> 00:18:53,760 Speaker 1: being used for things like camouflage or even like disruptive 288 00:18:53,800 --> 00:18:58,320 Speaker 1: coloration to evade predators. So they can use it both 289 00:18:58,359 --> 00:19:00,400 Speaker 1: to be able to hunt to sneak up on their 290 00:19:00,400 --> 00:19:04,119 Speaker 1: prey or to evade predators and use these kind of 291 00:19:04,160 --> 00:19:08,600 Speaker 1: distracting colors. Sometimes they'll even have these pulsating colors that 292 00:19:08,760 --> 00:19:11,880 Speaker 1: is thought to have sort of this disruptive effect at 293 00:19:11,960 --> 00:19:16,720 Speaker 1: confusing predators about the direction that the the octopus or 294 00:19:16,760 --> 00:19:20,159 Speaker 1: cuttle fish is going so that they can escape. But 295 00:19:20,800 --> 00:19:24,280 Speaker 1: in things like the sunbeam snake that has that beautiful 296 00:19:24,359 --> 00:19:28,520 Speaker 1: rainbow hue, it's actually not exactly known why they have 297 00:19:28,720 --> 00:19:32,200 Speaker 1: it because they don't seem to really rely on site 298 00:19:32,520 --> 00:19:36,080 Speaker 1: that much. They're mostly nocturnal, and so one of the 299 00:19:36,240 --> 00:19:41,160 Speaker 1: ideas is that that is just sort of a byproduct 300 00:19:41,320 --> 00:19:45,040 Speaker 1: of the structure of their scales, which may have some 301 00:19:45,160 --> 00:19:51,360 Speaker 1: other use like conservation of heat energy making, because they 302 00:19:51,400 --> 00:19:54,760 Speaker 1: are they are quote unquote cold blooded, just meaning that 303 00:19:54,800 --> 00:19:58,280 Speaker 1: they use their environment for thermal regulation to make sure 304 00:19:58,320 --> 00:20:03,080 Speaker 1: that they maintain a good would uh homeostasis of their 305 00:20:03,119 --> 00:20:08,800 Speaker 1: body temperature and so being able to have a structure 306 00:20:08,840 --> 00:20:12,360 Speaker 1: on your skin, the structures on their scales that may 307 00:20:12,400 --> 00:20:16,159 Speaker 1: help them mediate how much light, how much of the 308 00:20:16,240 --> 00:20:19,040 Speaker 1: heat from light is sort of reaching their bodies or 309 00:20:19,080 --> 00:20:22,360 Speaker 1: not that may be beneficial to them. That's still actually 310 00:20:22,400 --> 00:20:25,479 Speaker 1: being studied though it's not quite known why they are 311 00:20:25,520 --> 00:20:28,200 Speaker 1: these beautiful colors, but there's a there's a good chance 312 00:20:28,280 --> 00:20:30,639 Speaker 1: that it has nothing to do with how pretty it looks, 313 00:20:30,880 --> 00:20:34,560 Speaker 1: and they may not even really see these colors, but 314 00:20:34,680 --> 00:20:37,840 Speaker 1: that it has it's just a byproduct of the structure 315 00:20:37,920 --> 00:20:41,760 Speaker 1: of their scales that has some other benefit for them. Wow, 316 00:20:41,800 --> 00:20:47,160 Speaker 1: so they could be like accidentally glamorous. How incredibly, how 317 00:20:47,200 --> 00:20:51,880 Speaker 1: incredibly amazing they look, Yeah, exactly, And of course there 318 00:20:51,920 --> 00:20:57,159 Speaker 1: are other types of structural coloration that we see that 319 00:20:57,200 --> 00:21:01,119 Speaker 1: don't even use chromatophores like I was described. So that's 320 00:21:01,160 --> 00:21:05,040 Speaker 1: the case for butterfly scales, where it's just basically these 321 00:21:05,080 --> 00:21:11,160 Speaker 1: these chunky scales that use diffraction grating to produce colors. 322 00:21:11,240 --> 00:21:15,240 Speaker 1: So when light hits them, they diffract the light through 323 00:21:15,280 --> 00:21:19,760 Speaker 1: these microscopic slits like a physics experiment. That's amazing. That's 324 00:21:19,760 --> 00:21:23,480 Speaker 1: like a whole other way to use light to look different. 325 00:21:23,520 --> 00:21:29,159 Speaker 1: It's incredible. Yeah, So essentially, like the light goes through 326 00:21:29,560 --> 00:21:34,200 Speaker 1: these tiny slits and then it comes out as this. 327 00:21:36,240 --> 00:21:39,159 Speaker 1: I'm actually going to struggle more to explain this than 328 00:21:39,200 --> 00:21:42,199 Speaker 1: I imagine you might be able to explain it. But like, 329 00:21:42,240 --> 00:21:44,480 Speaker 1: how so how does It's kind of similar to like 330 00:21:44,520 --> 00:21:47,399 Speaker 1: the slit experiment, right, the double slit experiment. What happens 331 00:21:47,400 --> 00:21:50,080 Speaker 1: when light goes through a really narrow passage is essentially 332 00:21:50,080 --> 00:21:52,560 Speaker 1: that passage becomes like a little source sort of like 333 00:21:52,640 --> 00:21:55,679 Speaker 1: light is emitted from a little slit itself. That if 334 00:21:55,680 --> 00:21:58,440 Speaker 1: you have lots of little slits near each other, and 335 00:21:58,720 --> 00:22:00,840 Speaker 1: you have all these different sources, so now if your 336 00:22:00,840 --> 00:22:03,680 Speaker 1: eyeball is a certain distance away from all of those slits, 337 00:22:04,000 --> 00:22:05,960 Speaker 1: then some of those add up and some of those 338 00:22:06,000 --> 00:22:09,800 Speaker 1: cancel out and so you get these interference effects, like 339 00:22:09,960 --> 00:22:12,240 Speaker 1: the number of wavelengths the light has to travel from 340 00:22:12,240 --> 00:22:14,760 Speaker 1: one slit and from another slit might be an equal 341 00:22:14,840 --> 00:22:17,119 Speaker 1: number of wavelengths, in which case they add up, or 342 00:22:17,119 --> 00:22:19,680 Speaker 1: they could be off by a half wavelength, which means 343 00:22:19,680 --> 00:22:21,399 Speaker 1: that one is wiggling up at the same time the 344 00:22:21,440 --> 00:22:24,040 Speaker 1: other one is wiggling down, and so they cancel out. 345 00:22:24,480 --> 00:22:27,520 Speaker 1: So you can get these amazing interference patterns from these 346 00:22:27,560 --> 00:22:31,359 Speaker 1: diffraction gratings. And it's dependent also on the wavelength, so 347 00:22:31,400 --> 00:22:33,920 Speaker 1: you'll see interference in red, in other places you'll see 348 00:22:34,440 --> 00:22:37,280 Speaker 1: non interference in blue. And so it's another way, sort 349 00:22:37,320 --> 00:22:40,000 Speaker 1: of like a prism in that it's bending the light 350 00:22:40,080 --> 00:22:44,199 Speaker 1: and creating effects that depend on the wavelength. Yeah, I 351 00:22:44,280 --> 00:22:48,200 Speaker 1: love that. That's that is so cool that essentially, if 352 00:22:48,240 --> 00:22:52,119 Speaker 1: you want to look at a teeny tiny physics experiment, 353 00:22:52,160 --> 00:22:56,200 Speaker 1: you can look on the wings of most butterflies. So 354 00:22:56,320 --> 00:22:59,440 Speaker 1: when you're talking about interference, there can also be constructive 355 00:22:59,440 --> 00:23:03,359 Speaker 1: interference right where two wavelengths are adding up. Yeah. Absolutely, 356 00:23:03,400 --> 00:23:06,040 Speaker 1: If the wavelengths are an integer number apart, like if 357 00:23:06,040 --> 00:23:09,760 Speaker 1: it's wiggled nine times and another photon is wiggled ten times, 358 00:23:10,000 --> 00:23:12,439 Speaker 1: then they're sort of in the same place in their wave, 359 00:23:12,880 --> 00:23:15,159 Speaker 1: and so they add up. It's just like waves in 360 00:23:15,200 --> 00:23:17,520 Speaker 1: the ocean. You know, if two waves hit you at 361 00:23:17,560 --> 00:23:19,639 Speaker 1: the same time and they're both like pushing up, then 362 00:23:19,640 --> 00:23:22,440 Speaker 1: you're gonna get two pushes up. It's gonna be really dramatic. 363 00:23:22,720 --> 00:23:25,399 Speaker 1: So absolutely you can have constructive interference as well as 364 00:23:25,480 --> 00:23:30,240 Speaker 1: destructive if they're pushing in different directions. Well, constructive interference 365 00:23:30,440 --> 00:23:35,320 Speaker 1: is the reason behind the brightest blue found in any 366 00:23:35,400 --> 00:23:38,639 Speaker 1: living tissue in the world, which is produced by the 367 00:23:38,760 --> 00:23:42,199 Speaker 1: marble berry, which is a plant, which we don't We 368 00:23:42,200 --> 00:23:44,400 Speaker 1: don't often talk about plants on this show, but when 369 00:23:44,400 --> 00:23:48,600 Speaker 1: we do, they are absolutely incredible, and the marble berry 370 00:23:48,640 --> 00:23:52,040 Speaker 1: is a blindingly blue berry. Now, you can look this 371 00:23:52,160 --> 00:23:54,800 Speaker 1: up online and I'll certainly have a picture of it 372 00:23:54,840 --> 00:23:57,280 Speaker 1: in the show notes. But a photograph is not going 373 00:23:57,359 --> 00:23:59,920 Speaker 1: to do it justice because it's not going to capture 374 00:24:00,040 --> 00:24:03,879 Speaker 1: that blue light like your eyeballs can. And it won't 375 00:24:03,920 --> 00:24:08,640 Speaker 1: also translate the way that this these shimmer because it's 376 00:24:08,680 --> 00:24:12,920 Speaker 1: structural coloration. It does depend on the angle, so you'll 377 00:24:12,960 --> 00:24:18,320 Speaker 1: have this like purplely blue shimmery so bright it might 378 00:24:18,400 --> 00:24:22,040 Speaker 1: actually hurt your eyes a little bit. So this is 379 00:24:22,119 --> 00:24:26,760 Speaker 1: a leafy flowering plant from southern Africa. Its berries are 380 00:24:26,920 --> 00:24:30,679 Speaker 1: shockingly blue due to the mirror like cell structure on 381 00:24:30,720 --> 00:24:37,120 Speaker 1: their surface and crystalline structure underneath of spiraling cellulose. And 382 00:24:37,400 --> 00:24:40,160 Speaker 1: what it does is it allows for a huge amount 383 00:24:40,160 --> 00:24:44,040 Speaker 1: of light to be narrowed and reflected, and it amplifies 384 00:24:44,200 --> 00:24:48,080 Speaker 1: the blue wavelengths especially, and it hits your eye just 385 00:24:48,400 --> 00:24:55,280 Speaker 1: with this flood of super super blue in this constructive interference. Well, 386 00:24:55,320 --> 00:24:56,919 Speaker 1: I don't know if I believe that these things are 387 00:24:56,920 --> 00:24:59,560 Speaker 1: the bluest things in nature. Pretty sure that after an 388 00:24:59,680 --> 00:25:02,840 Speaker 1: entire blueberry pie one time, that my insides were the 389 00:25:02,840 --> 00:25:05,440 Speaker 1: bluest thing in nature based on you know what came 390 00:25:05,440 --> 00:25:09,000 Speaker 1: out later. But I'm wondering, are these berries blue just 391 00:25:09,080 --> 00:25:11,640 Speaker 1: in the skin or is their flesh also blue? Because 392 00:25:11,680 --> 00:25:14,240 Speaker 1: blueberries are mostly blue in the skin. When you bite inside, 393 00:25:14,480 --> 00:25:17,399 Speaker 1: they're sort of like faintly transparent. Are these guys just 394 00:25:17,480 --> 00:25:20,000 Speaker 1: in the skin or blue all the way through? That's 395 00:25:20,000 --> 00:25:23,679 Speaker 1: a really good question. My sense was that it is 396 00:25:23,880 --> 00:25:29,639 Speaker 1: mostly in the skin, because what is interesting about these 397 00:25:29,960 --> 00:25:34,959 Speaker 1: is that blue coloration is not an it is not 398 00:25:35,080 --> 00:25:40,040 Speaker 1: an honest indicator of them being delicious nutritious berries. They 399 00:25:40,080 --> 00:25:44,560 Speaker 1: do not have any nutritional value. They're not strictly speaking edible. 400 00:25:44,960 --> 00:25:47,800 Speaker 1: They don't I don't think they would make you sick, really, 401 00:25:48,240 --> 00:25:51,360 Speaker 1: but they don't taste good. They're not really good for you. 402 00:25:51,880 --> 00:25:56,000 Speaker 1: But birds love them. And the reason they love them 403 00:25:56,119 --> 00:25:59,480 Speaker 1: is a bird is going to be very easily wooed 404 00:25:59,480 --> 00:26:03,960 Speaker 1: by some pretty and colorful uh. The birds will try 405 00:26:03,960 --> 00:26:07,160 Speaker 1: to eat them or even decorate their nests with them 406 00:26:07,200 --> 00:26:11,879 Speaker 1: because they are just so so blue, so shiny, so shimmery, 407 00:26:12,359 --> 00:26:16,679 Speaker 1: just like humans. Essentially, these birds just love these berries 408 00:26:16,720 --> 00:26:19,800 Speaker 1: because they're pretty and they want they want to have them, 409 00:26:19,840 --> 00:26:23,160 Speaker 1: and so the berries don't have to waste resources making 410 00:26:23,200 --> 00:26:27,240 Speaker 1: themselves nutritious. They're just so shiny and pretty that birds 411 00:26:27,640 --> 00:26:30,560 Speaker 1: will distribute them. They will disperse them and try to 412 00:26:30,600 --> 00:26:33,320 Speaker 1: eat them, despite them not being nutritional at all. They'll 413 00:26:33,320 --> 00:26:36,840 Speaker 1: put them in their nests. And this plant then sneakily 414 00:26:36,960 --> 00:26:41,000 Speaker 1: finds a way to have itself distributed just through sheer 415 00:26:41,080 --> 00:26:46,760 Speaker 1: beauty and no actual intrinsic value. Oh man, I feel 416 00:26:46,800 --> 00:26:48,640 Speaker 1: bad for the birds. I feel bad for the birds. 417 00:26:48,640 --> 00:26:52,959 Speaker 1: They're getting like conned by a dumb berry. It happens 418 00:26:53,200 --> 00:26:55,800 Speaker 1: more often than you would think we're a plant outwits 419 00:26:55,840 --> 00:27:01,400 Speaker 1: an animal. The day that happens to me, I'm gonna 420 00:27:01,440 --> 00:27:04,520 Speaker 1: resign my job here as a professor. How smarted by 421 00:27:04,560 --> 00:27:07,439 Speaker 1: a unless it's a slime mold that here. Those are 422 00:27:07,440 --> 00:27:20,240 Speaker 1: pretty smart. So we've talked about some of the incredible 423 00:27:20,240 --> 00:27:23,480 Speaker 1: ways that you can see color in the natural world. 424 00:27:23,600 --> 00:27:27,240 Speaker 1: You have pigments which can produce amazing colors, like the 425 00:27:28,000 --> 00:27:31,320 Speaker 1: color of of our eyes, of our hair, and our 426 00:27:31,359 --> 00:27:35,960 Speaker 1: skin is through pigmentation. But there's also structural coloration which 427 00:27:35,960 --> 00:27:39,600 Speaker 1: can happen in a variety of ways, where basically it 428 00:27:39,760 --> 00:27:44,360 Speaker 1: is a structure that is manipulating the light's wavelength so 429 00:27:44,400 --> 00:27:47,200 Speaker 1: that it can scatter, it can amplify it, it can 430 00:27:47,240 --> 00:27:50,000 Speaker 1: cancel it out, and that can result in everything from 431 00:27:50,040 --> 00:27:54,600 Speaker 1: the bluest blue you've ever seen to a shimmery rainbow. 432 00:27:55,320 --> 00:27:58,399 Speaker 1: One thing is interesting is that as beautiful as the 433 00:27:58,440 --> 00:28:02,600 Speaker 1: world is to our eyes, it looks radically different to 434 00:28:03,119 --> 00:28:08,440 Speaker 1: other animals, and other animals will experience the world in 435 00:28:08,480 --> 00:28:12,280 Speaker 1: such different ways that it may even be hard for 436 00:28:12,359 --> 00:28:15,600 Speaker 1: us to imagine exactly what is going on, because, of course, 437 00:28:15,640 --> 00:28:18,160 Speaker 1: we cannot read the mind of an animal. We can 438 00:28:18,200 --> 00:28:21,119 Speaker 1: only look at their eye and look at their brain 439 00:28:21,240 --> 00:28:26,040 Speaker 1: and kind of try to piece together what maybe their experiences. 440 00:28:27,400 --> 00:28:30,520 Speaker 1: We can't even understand what another human is experiencing when 441 00:28:30,560 --> 00:28:32,639 Speaker 1: they look at the world and they have basically the 442 00:28:32,720 --> 00:28:35,679 Speaker 1: same biology, right, I don't know that your red is 443 00:28:35,720 --> 00:28:38,320 Speaker 1: my red and your blue is my blue, And so 444 00:28:38,440 --> 00:28:41,680 Speaker 1: to me, it seems like philosophically impossible to imagine what 445 00:28:41,760 --> 00:28:44,160 Speaker 1: an octopus or a rat or a fly might be 446 00:28:44,280 --> 00:28:47,480 Speaker 1: experiencing about the world. Yeah, this say, is What is 447 00:28:47,560 --> 00:28:51,200 Speaker 1: so mind blowing for me is that, Yeah, I can't 448 00:28:51,240 --> 00:28:56,200 Speaker 1: even trust that you, Daniel, sees the same world that 449 00:28:56,320 --> 00:28:59,400 Speaker 1: I see. Like, we already know that a lot of 450 00:28:59,440 --> 00:29:03,360 Speaker 1: people definitely don't see color in the same way that 451 00:29:03,680 --> 00:29:08,440 Speaker 1: others do because there are varying degrees of color blindness. 452 00:29:08,560 --> 00:29:12,720 Speaker 1: And it is also hard for me to imagine that 453 00:29:12,800 --> 00:29:16,440 Speaker 1: everyone's experience of color is going to be exactly the same, 454 00:29:16,480 --> 00:29:18,840 Speaker 1: because of course all of our eyes are going to 455 00:29:18,920 --> 00:29:22,560 Speaker 1: be different and our brains are going to be different. So, yeah, 456 00:29:22,600 --> 00:29:26,360 Speaker 1: it is. It is really interesting, And there are experiments, 457 00:29:26,400 --> 00:29:30,880 Speaker 1: psychological experiments that show that people can differ in like 458 00:29:30,960 --> 00:29:34,760 Speaker 1: how many colors they can distinguish between, And I think 459 00:29:34,760 --> 00:29:38,240 Speaker 1: it mostly comes down to practice, so like you can 460 00:29:38,240 --> 00:29:43,680 Speaker 1: actually practice and become better at distinguishing between different colors. Uh. 461 00:29:43,720 --> 00:29:47,320 Speaker 1: And if but if you're unpracticed, something that is a 462 00:29:47,360 --> 00:29:50,040 Speaker 1: different color from another thing may look like the same 463 00:29:50,080 --> 00:29:53,000 Speaker 1: color to you. I guess that's because a lot of 464 00:29:53,000 --> 00:29:56,000 Speaker 1: it's happening sort of in software in your brain, and 465 00:29:56,080 --> 00:29:59,040 Speaker 1: so you can improve that by practicing. I love the 466 00:29:59,040 --> 00:30:01,080 Speaker 1: way the world looks, you know. I love the purples 467 00:30:01,080 --> 00:30:02,760 Speaker 1: and the reds and the blues and all the greens. 468 00:30:02,760 --> 00:30:05,160 Speaker 1: And I feel bad if people aren't like experiencing the 469 00:30:05,200 --> 00:30:08,360 Speaker 1: same incredible world that I'm enjoying. And then I realized, 470 00:30:08,400 --> 00:30:11,040 Speaker 1: hold on a second, maybe everybody else out there has 471 00:30:11,080 --> 00:30:13,520 Speaker 1: an even more amazing world, and like the way I'm 472 00:30:13,560 --> 00:30:16,080 Speaker 1: experiencing it is like, you know, a thin shadow of 473 00:30:16,120 --> 00:30:18,880 Speaker 1: the true beauty of the world. And then I feel 474 00:30:18,920 --> 00:30:21,520 Speaker 1: frustrated because we're like all trapped inside our brains that 475 00:30:21,560 --> 00:30:25,160 Speaker 1: are painting these worlds for us. Yeah, I mean one 476 00:30:25,240 --> 00:30:29,000 Speaker 1: interesting example of how we may not recognize, like we 477 00:30:29,080 --> 00:30:31,040 Speaker 1: may think that our way of seeing the world is 478 00:30:31,080 --> 00:30:33,520 Speaker 1: the best because we get to see all these pretty colors, 479 00:30:33,880 --> 00:30:36,840 Speaker 1: but even when there's an animal that may not have 480 00:30:36,920 --> 00:30:39,040 Speaker 1: the same kinds of structures that we do in our 481 00:30:39,040 --> 00:30:41,400 Speaker 1: eyes and our brain, they may still have a really 482 00:30:41,520 --> 00:30:45,000 Speaker 1: interesting way of perceiving the world we just don't know. 483 00:30:45,120 --> 00:30:49,200 Speaker 1: And a great example of this is the octopus. So 484 00:30:50,200 --> 00:30:53,240 Speaker 1: octopus is of course we talked about earlier, for having 485 00:30:53,240 --> 00:30:58,040 Speaker 1: those incredible chromatophores that not only produce pigment, but can 486 00:30:58,080 --> 00:31:01,640 Speaker 1: actually change their shape and can change what kinds of 487 00:31:01,640 --> 00:31:05,520 Speaker 1: pigments they produce in order to create this rapid change 488 00:31:05,560 --> 00:31:10,120 Speaker 1: in color, and they can use that for things like camouflage. 489 00:31:10,280 --> 00:31:13,360 Speaker 1: There's even been there is a guy who kept an 490 00:31:13,400 --> 00:31:17,200 Speaker 1: octopus in his living room and he got to watch 491 00:31:17,240 --> 00:31:20,040 Speaker 1: this octopus as it was sleeping, and as it was sleeping, 492 00:31:20,120 --> 00:31:23,720 Speaker 1: it's it would kind of flicker and its colors would change, 493 00:31:23,840 --> 00:31:28,640 Speaker 1: possibly indicating that it was dreaming. And so the octopuses 494 00:31:28,720 --> 00:31:33,680 Speaker 1: have these wildly amazing colorful lives, and yet they don't 495 00:31:33,760 --> 00:31:38,200 Speaker 1: have color detecting cones, those little photo receptors that are 496 00:31:38,920 --> 00:31:43,640 Speaker 1: on our retinas. They only have one type of photoreceptor cell. 497 00:31:44,000 --> 00:31:48,240 Speaker 1: And so the thought was, these poor octopuses, they are 498 00:31:48,320 --> 00:31:51,959 Speaker 1: so colorful, and yet they can't perceive color because they 499 00:31:52,000 --> 00:31:56,800 Speaker 1: don't have cones like humans do. So they might be 500 00:31:56,840 --> 00:31:59,960 Speaker 1: producing color on their skins but not observing it any 501 00:32:00,000 --> 00:32:02,600 Speaker 1: each other. I always thought that maybe occupied were using 502 00:32:02,600 --> 00:32:07,200 Speaker 1: that as a way to communicate, like a visual, colorful language. Well, 503 00:32:07,200 --> 00:32:11,080 Speaker 1: octopuses are really interesting because as intelligent as they are 504 00:32:11,400 --> 00:32:15,240 Speaker 1: and as spectacular as they are, they're not that social. 505 00:32:15,720 --> 00:32:20,320 Speaker 1: They have very limited social interactions. And when they are social, 506 00:32:20,400 --> 00:32:25,720 Speaker 1: they do seem to have some changes in their coloration, 507 00:32:25,840 --> 00:32:28,880 Speaker 1: but not much is known how they use that for 508 00:32:29,000 --> 00:32:34,120 Speaker 1: communication because they're they are very shy, even with each other, 509 00:32:34,200 --> 00:32:37,320 Speaker 1: and so their social lives are very limited and we 510 00:32:37,440 --> 00:32:40,720 Speaker 1: don't observe them too often. That doesn't mean that they 511 00:32:40,760 --> 00:32:43,640 Speaker 1: don't use that coloration to communicate, but it's just so 512 00:32:43,840 --> 00:32:48,240 Speaker 1: such a rare event that we have researchers struggle to 513 00:32:48,440 --> 00:32:52,600 Speaker 1: actually understand what language they are speaking with this coloration. 514 00:32:53,280 --> 00:32:56,680 Speaker 1: But while it may be that they can't see color 515 00:32:56,800 --> 00:33:00,840 Speaker 1: because they don't have cones, they may yet be able 516 00:33:00,880 --> 00:33:06,160 Speaker 1: to see color because they have a very strange wide 517 00:33:06,160 --> 00:33:09,200 Speaker 1: pupil and you've probably seen that it's this like sort 518 00:33:09,240 --> 00:33:15,920 Speaker 1: of wobbly wide you shaped pupil, and the this wide 519 00:33:15,920 --> 00:33:20,880 Speaker 1: pupil actually scatters light as it enters the eye, which 520 00:33:21,080 --> 00:33:23,880 Speaker 1: means that it would hit the back of the eye 521 00:33:23,960 --> 00:33:28,400 Speaker 1: the retina at different focal points. So there is a 522 00:33:28,480 --> 00:33:33,360 Speaker 1: theory that potentially these octopuses are able to see color 523 00:33:33,880 --> 00:33:38,080 Speaker 1: based on the difference of blur and what it sees. 524 00:33:38,160 --> 00:33:41,360 Speaker 1: So if it's hitting the eye at these different focal lengths, 525 00:33:41,400 --> 00:33:43,800 Speaker 1: for us, we would see that as sort of a 526 00:33:43,840 --> 00:33:46,280 Speaker 1: blurry nous Like you know, if you have something really close, 527 00:33:46,400 --> 00:33:48,600 Speaker 1: like a hand really close to your face and you 528 00:33:48,640 --> 00:33:51,400 Speaker 1: look at it, it's it's blurry. It doesn't look quite right, 529 00:33:51,480 --> 00:33:54,200 Speaker 1: or things sort of in the corner of your eyes 530 00:33:54,240 --> 00:33:57,240 Speaker 1: are sort of blurred, they're not fully defined. That is 531 00:33:57,280 --> 00:34:01,560 Speaker 1: just raw information, right, that we're seeing that as blurry, 532 00:34:01,640 --> 00:34:05,800 Speaker 1: and it's our brain's interpretation of that information. But it's 533 00:34:05,840 --> 00:34:10,880 Speaker 1: absolutely possible that the octopus is using the difference in 534 00:34:11,000 --> 00:34:14,160 Speaker 1: blur results as a result of the different wavelengths of 535 00:34:14,280 --> 00:34:17,719 Speaker 1: the colors hitting the eye at different focal points and 536 00:34:17,800 --> 00:34:24,000 Speaker 1: interpreting that as color. Wow, that's sort of incredible. What 537 00:34:24,040 --> 00:34:25,880 Speaker 1: do you think is sort of the forefront or the 538 00:34:25,960 --> 00:34:28,200 Speaker 1: goal of this research. Do we need to like dig 539 00:34:28,280 --> 00:34:31,520 Speaker 1: into the octopus brain to understand how it's taking this 540 00:34:31,640 --> 00:34:34,879 Speaker 1: information and entangling it and experiencing it. Is it ever 541 00:34:34,920 --> 00:34:38,040 Speaker 1: really going to be possible to do science about what, 542 00:34:38,160 --> 00:34:41,080 Speaker 1: in the end is sort of a subjective experience. That's 543 00:34:41,120 --> 00:34:45,480 Speaker 1: a really good question. I mean, personally, I find octopus 544 00:34:45,600 --> 00:34:48,640 Speaker 1: is one of the most fascinating animals in the world 545 00:34:48,719 --> 00:34:56,240 Speaker 1: because they have evolved completely, almost completely independently from humans 546 00:34:56,239 --> 00:35:00,279 Speaker 1: and mammals and most other animals in the world. Uh, 547 00:35:00,320 --> 00:35:04,960 Speaker 1: And yet they have two eyes and a brain, and 548 00:35:05,000 --> 00:35:09,000 Speaker 1: they seem to have a certain amount of intelligence that 549 00:35:09,160 --> 00:35:11,319 Speaker 1: we can kind of understand. They seem to have a 550 00:35:11,440 --> 00:35:15,879 Speaker 1: playfulness of curiosity, and so they're the closest thing we 551 00:35:15,960 --> 00:35:20,320 Speaker 1: have to an alien that we can interact with. And 552 00:35:20,760 --> 00:35:25,680 Speaker 1: while I don't know other researchers could ever really be 553 00:35:25,840 --> 00:35:31,160 Speaker 1: able to fully understand what their subjective experiences, studying these 554 00:35:31,560 --> 00:35:36,080 Speaker 1: octopuses and understanding as much as we can about their experience, 555 00:35:36,200 --> 00:35:39,440 Speaker 1: I think maybe the closest thing we could get to 556 00:35:39,680 --> 00:35:44,239 Speaker 1: studying intelligent alien life and a clue to like what 557 00:35:44,400 --> 00:35:49,360 Speaker 1: life might look like on other planets, because their evolutionary 558 00:35:49,440 --> 00:35:53,640 Speaker 1: journey was so wildly different from our own in such 559 00:35:53,680 --> 00:35:56,400 Speaker 1: a different environment. And of course they're a fun playground 560 00:35:56,400 --> 00:35:59,799 Speaker 1: for science fiction authors. I've read many awesome science fiction, 561 00:35:59,800 --> 00:36:05,120 Speaker 1: but imagining intelligent octopi or their equivalent from alien world, 562 00:36:05,400 --> 00:36:08,360 Speaker 1: it's really fun to think about it into experience. But 563 00:36:08,360 --> 00:36:11,239 Speaker 1: it's funny that you call them basically like aliens. I mean, 564 00:36:11,520 --> 00:36:14,160 Speaker 1: maybe they would think of themselves as you know, earthlings, 565 00:36:14,200 --> 00:36:17,080 Speaker 1: and we are the aliens, right, it's all relative. I mean, 566 00:36:17,160 --> 00:36:21,400 Speaker 1: if you've seen there's that document My Octopus Teacher, and 567 00:36:21,560 --> 00:36:23,560 Speaker 1: in a way, it really does seem like they see 568 00:36:23,640 --> 00:36:29,000 Speaker 1: us as a curious alien because this diver who would 569 00:36:29,120 --> 00:36:33,520 Speaker 1: very very carefully and slowly interact with this octopus, the 570 00:36:33,800 --> 00:36:36,960 Speaker 1: octopus seemed to take a real curiosity in him. And 571 00:36:37,000 --> 00:36:39,239 Speaker 1: there there are a lot of instances of octopus as 572 00:36:39,320 --> 00:36:44,920 Speaker 1: being curious about humans, or at least seeming to display 573 00:36:45,000 --> 00:36:49,360 Speaker 1: curiosity rather than simply fear, which I find so interesting. 574 00:36:49,440 --> 00:36:54,200 Speaker 1: I mean, they are really really mysterious and interesting animals. 575 00:36:54,320 --> 00:36:58,280 Speaker 1: And the last time we were related to an octopus 576 00:36:58,520 --> 00:37:02,759 Speaker 1: was when everything was basically a tiny nema toad like 577 00:37:03,000 --> 00:37:07,520 Speaker 1: worm with just the bare essentials to be able to function, 578 00:37:07,560 --> 00:37:10,760 Speaker 1: which I just I find that so interesting and also 579 00:37:10,880 --> 00:37:14,759 Speaker 1: kind of encouraging because it makes me think that you know, 580 00:37:14,920 --> 00:37:21,200 Speaker 1: given enough evolutionary pressures, it is possible to repeatedly create 581 00:37:21,440 --> 00:37:26,080 Speaker 1: organisms that have a curiosity around the world and are 582 00:37:26,320 --> 00:37:31,440 Speaker 1: really interesting and maybe are capable of being observers of 583 00:37:31,480 --> 00:37:35,719 Speaker 1: their environment, just like humans are. It is amazing that 584 00:37:35,760 --> 00:37:38,960 Speaker 1: they evolved their intelligence sort of separately, and it is 585 00:37:39,000 --> 00:37:43,719 Speaker 1: hopeful that if independently evolved intelligence finds us curious rather 586 00:37:43,760 --> 00:37:47,480 Speaker 1: than like disgusting and squishable, that maybe aliens when they 587 00:37:47,560 --> 00:37:51,200 Speaker 1: arrive will also find us worth talking to. I, for one, 588 00:37:51,239 --> 00:37:54,520 Speaker 1: would love to hug like a big octopus alien that 589 00:37:54,520 --> 00:37:58,120 Speaker 1: would just that would be wonderful. So octopuses are not 590 00:37:58,200 --> 00:38:03,640 Speaker 1: the only animals that have a very different subjective experience 591 00:38:03,719 --> 00:38:06,279 Speaker 1: when it comes to color. There are a lot of 592 00:38:06,360 --> 00:38:10,960 Speaker 1: animals that can see UV light, so ultra violet light, 593 00:38:11,440 --> 00:38:13,640 Speaker 1: and so how they pursue the world is going to 594 00:38:13,680 --> 00:38:16,400 Speaker 1: be very different from us, and these are There are 595 00:38:16,400 --> 00:38:19,520 Speaker 1: a lot of animals, and we're discovering more and more 596 00:38:19,640 --> 00:38:25,800 Speaker 1: almost every day who can see UV lights. So butterflies, bees, birds, bats, 597 00:38:25,880 --> 00:38:31,120 Speaker 1: and other pollinators can see UV light for pretty obvious reasons, 598 00:38:31,200 --> 00:38:36,480 Speaker 1: because flowers have UV light patterns on their petals and 599 00:38:36,520 --> 00:38:40,480 Speaker 1: they use these like landing strips for the pollinators to 600 00:38:40,560 --> 00:38:44,000 Speaker 1: come like a big eat at Joe's sign neon sign 601 00:38:44,160 --> 00:38:47,120 Speaker 1: telling these pollinators, come on, come here, get your nectar. 602 00:38:47,520 --> 00:38:49,120 Speaker 1: And while you're at it, why don't you pick up 603 00:38:49,160 --> 00:38:51,560 Speaker 1: some pollen and transfer it to my neighbor so we 604 00:38:51,600 --> 00:38:56,720 Speaker 1: can get some cross pollination going. I'm glad to see 605 00:38:56,880 --> 00:39:00,080 Speaker 1: that kind of interaction facilitated in the natural world. M 606 00:39:00,920 --> 00:39:06,280 Speaker 1: And some flowers. Remember we talked about structural coloration, those 607 00:39:06,320 --> 00:39:11,479 Speaker 1: like little miniature prisms or slits that will bend light 608 00:39:11,560 --> 00:39:15,560 Speaker 1: in certain ways. Some flowers will use structural coloration to 609 00:39:15,719 --> 00:39:19,920 Speaker 1: create a blue and UV halo that is typically not 610 00:39:20,160 --> 00:39:24,399 Speaker 1: visible to humans but stands out like a hologram two 611 00:39:24,480 --> 00:39:27,680 Speaker 1: bees telling them that, like a flower is only tin 612 00:39:27,880 --> 00:39:32,600 Speaker 1: wing beats away. So these flowers have cracked holographic advertisement 613 00:39:33,600 --> 00:39:36,239 Speaker 1: before humans have, because I was promised when I was 614 00:39:36,280 --> 00:39:39,600 Speaker 1: a kid sort of a cyberpunk future where you would 615 00:39:39,640 --> 00:39:43,840 Speaker 1: have these holograms advertising soda to you, but that didn't happen. 616 00:39:43,960 --> 00:39:46,880 Speaker 1: But these flowers have managed to do that, but we 617 00:39:47,040 --> 00:39:50,640 Speaker 1: can't see it. Only bees and other UV light detecting 618 00:39:50,680 --> 00:39:54,880 Speaker 1: animals can see those kinds of beautiful displays. Wow. And 619 00:39:54,960 --> 00:39:57,919 Speaker 1: bees also basically get jet packs also, so they're living 620 00:39:57,960 --> 00:39:59,800 Speaker 1: in the future. And we're stuck here in the present. 621 00:40:00,040 --> 00:40:02,719 Speaker 1: That's how do we know? But how do we know 622 00:40:02,800 --> 00:40:06,239 Speaker 1: what bees can see? Like if people dissected be eyeballs 623 00:40:06,280 --> 00:40:09,560 Speaker 1: to understand what they're sensitive to, or put little recorders 624 00:40:09,600 --> 00:40:13,960 Speaker 1: in b brains. It's both, uh, the It's both that 625 00:40:14,000 --> 00:40:16,440 Speaker 1: we can see the structure of the b eyeball so 626 00:40:16,520 --> 00:40:22,240 Speaker 1: we know UV light can pass through, but also behavioral experiments, 627 00:40:22,280 --> 00:40:27,719 Speaker 1: so seeing that bees will go towards UV light when 628 00:40:27,760 --> 00:40:31,279 Speaker 1: no other coloration or light is present, that we can 629 00:40:31,280 --> 00:40:34,719 Speaker 1: see that they can see these light patterns and they 630 00:40:34,760 --> 00:40:37,839 Speaker 1: respond to it. So in an experimental settings, they will 631 00:40:37,880 --> 00:40:42,560 Speaker 1: respond to UV light patterns that we we recreate artificially, 632 00:40:42,640 --> 00:40:46,160 Speaker 1: so we we can test both their behavior and the 633 00:40:46,200 --> 00:40:49,280 Speaker 1: structure of their eyeball to show that it is physically 634 00:40:49,360 --> 00:40:52,320 Speaker 1: possible for them to see UV light. You can figure 635 00:40:52,320 --> 00:40:56,520 Speaker 1: it out by both combining the behavioral studies with the 636 00:40:56,560 --> 00:41:00,319 Speaker 1: anatomical properties of their eyes. What it's like to be 637 00:41:00,400 --> 00:41:05,480 Speaker 1: a bee. But what's so interesting is it it makes 638 00:41:05,480 --> 00:41:09,359 Speaker 1: sense from an evolutionary standpoint that bees and birds and 639 00:41:09,520 --> 00:41:13,680 Speaker 1: even bats can see UV light because they're pollinators. But 640 00:41:14,360 --> 00:41:17,399 Speaker 1: research is showing that more and more animals can see 641 00:41:17,480 --> 00:41:21,279 Speaker 1: UV light than we may have previously thought. So there's 642 00:41:21,320 --> 00:41:26,160 Speaker 1: some evidence that based on the structure of many mammalian lenses, 643 00:41:26,520 --> 00:41:31,120 Speaker 1: so that clear uh structure just sitting right on top 644 00:41:31,160 --> 00:41:34,360 Speaker 1: of your eye that helps shape the light as it 645 00:41:34,400 --> 00:41:38,000 Speaker 1: goes into your eye. Um U V light is able 646 00:41:38,080 --> 00:41:41,440 Speaker 1: to make it past that lens and hit the retina, 647 00:41:41,600 --> 00:41:45,120 Speaker 1: and so it is likely that their rods and cones 648 00:41:45,160 --> 00:41:50,440 Speaker 1: are able to detect UV light and humans. In most humans, 649 00:41:51,040 --> 00:41:55,359 Speaker 1: that lens will actually absorb the UV light and so 650 00:41:55,520 --> 00:41:59,080 Speaker 1: because it absorbs that UV light, it never actually manages 651 00:41:59,440 --> 00:42:03,680 Speaker 1: to hit our photoreceptor cells and so we don't detect it. 652 00:42:04,640 --> 00:42:10,040 Speaker 1: But uh. It has also been reported that people who 653 00:42:10,120 --> 00:42:13,399 Speaker 1: were either born without a lens or have had their 654 00:42:13,480 --> 00:42:18,040 Speaker 1: lens removed for medical reasons, like for cataracts surgery, can 655 00:42:18,120 --> 00:42:24,520 Speaker 1: actually see U V light. What how's that possible? Really? Yeah? Yeah, 656 00:42:24,640 --> 00:42:27,919 Speaker 1: So there are a variety of surgeries that are done 657 00:42:27,920 --> 00:42:31,560 Speaker 1: on the eye to correct for issues things like cataracts. 658 00:42:31,640 --> 00:42:35,719 Speaker 1: And so once that lens is removed, it's actually replaced 659 00:42:35,800 --> 00:42:38,800 Speaker 1: with an artificial lens again so that you can focus 660 00:42:38,920 --> 00:42:41,640 Speaker 1: that light, because without the lens the things would be 661 00:42:41,680 --> 00:42:44,359 Speaker 1: too blurry. It helps focus the eye to the back 662 00:42:44,400 --> 00:42:49,800 Speaker 1: of your retina, But that artificial lens actually doesn't necessarily 663 00:42:49,880 --> 00:42:54,080 Speaker 1: absorb UV light. It can pass through and hit the 664 00:42:54,120 --> 00:42:59,160 Speaker 1: retina because it's litting UV light through. It allows people 665 00:42:59,200 --> 00:43:02,120 Speaker 1: to both focus saw on an object and also see 666 00:43:02,680 --> 00:43:07,040 Speaker 1: u V light, And so people with their lens removed 667 00:43:07,080 --> 00:43:10,920 Speaker 1: and replaced will report UV light as looking like this 668 00:43:11,000 --> 00:43:16,480 Speaker 1: kind of white violet hue, like a a really oddly 669 00:43:16,680 --> 00:43:20,279 Speaker 1: bright violet. And it's one of those things where I 670 00:43:20,320 --> 00:43:23,160 Speaker 1: can try to imagine what that's gonna look like, but 671 00:43:23,280 --> 00:43:26,719 Speaker 1: you can't really even with a human being, you can 672 00:43:26,760 --> 00:43:29,359 Speaker 1: report to you, this is what I see. You can 673 00:43:29,400 --> 00:43:32,160 Speaker 1: still only kind of like imagine what that's like. You 674 00:43:32,239 --> 00:43:35,640 Speaker 1: can't ever actually experience it. Because they're trying to describe 675 00:43:35,719 --> 00:43:38,440 Speaker 1: one color in terms of other colors, but it seems 676 00:43:38,480 --> 00:43:42,720 Speaker 1: fundamentally impossible, Like how could you describe red in terms 677 00:43:42,760 --> 00:43:46,200 Speaker 1: of blue and green? It's not like some combination of them. 678 00:43:46,280 --> 00:43:49,239 Speaker 1: It's like describing something totally different. It's sort of like 679 00:43:49,280 --> 00:43:51,839 Speaker 1: you know, eating a new fruit and then describing it like, oh, 680 00:43:51,840 --> 00:43:54,160 Speaker 1: it's a little bit like an apple mixed with a kiwi. 681 00:43:54,239 --> 00:43:57,480 Speaker 1: It's never going to really capture it right exactly and 682 00:43:57,520 --> 00:44:00,919 Speaker 1: it's so it is probably really tricky for people who 683 00:44:01,000 --> 00:44:03,960 Speaker 1: see this to be able to describe it, just as 684 00:44:04,000 --> 00:44:06,840 Speaker 1: it's hard for us to those of us who cannot 685 00:44:06,880 --> 00:44:12,120 Speaker 1: see UV light cannot really imagine what it's like. Uh 686 00:44:12,239 --> 00:44:14,200 Speaker 1: so this is this is a fun one. Now. I'm 687 00:44:14,200 --> 00:44:19,279 Speaker 1: not an art historian, but there is a historical theory 688 00:44:19,320 --> 00:44:24,000 Speaker 1: that Claude Monet's paintings became much more blue and violet 689 00:44:24,480 --> 00:44:28,560 Speaker 1: later in life because he had cataract surgery and his 690 00:44:28,800 --> 00:44:34,400 Speaker 1: left islands was removed, which allowed him to see UV light. 691 00:44:35,000 --> 00:44:39,520 Speaker 1: And so it's possible that he was not just painting 692 00:44:39,600 --> 00:44:42,960 Speaker 1: these bright, bright blues and bright violets because he liked 693 00:44:43,000 --> 00:44:45,839 Speaker 1: these colors, but because he was actually seeing more and 694 00:44:45,880 --> 00:44:49,680 Speaker 1: more of these colors or this UV color that we 695 00:44:49,719 --> 00:44:52,600 Speaker 1: can only imagine how it looked like, and trying to 696 00:44:52,680 --> 00:44:57,000 Speaker 1: represent it in his paintings. Wow, he wasn't just a genius. 697 00:44:57,000 --> 00:45:00,879 Speaker 1: He was an ultra violet genius. It's like extra good. 698 00:45:00,880 --> 00:45:04,440 Speaker 1: I want to be an ultra violet physicist. I just 699 00:45:04,600 --> 00:45:10,080 Speaker 1: I love. I love how researchers can as we make 700 00:45:10,120 --> 00:45:14,680 Speaker 1: scientific discoveries today, it can impact how we see our history, 701 00:45:14,719 --> 00:45:18,680 Speaker 1: Like we can see this whole new context for someone 702 00:45:18,800 --> 00:45:21,880 Speaker 1: famous like Claude Monet in his life and what he 703 00:45:21,920 --> 00:45:24,040 Speaker 1: may have gone through. It is amazing how we can 704 00:45:24,160 --> 00:45:28,000 Speaker 1: understand more about what happened in history given our theories now, 705 00:45:28,120 --> 00:45:29,600 Speaker 1: Like I don't know if you know the whole story 706 00:45:29,640 --> 00:45:33,360 Speaker 1: about the camera, about the camera obscura and how influenced 707 00:45:33,400 --> 00:45:36,520 Speaker 1: painting and understanding of like depth and how to paint 708 00:45:36,520 --> 00:45:39,360 Speaker 1: depth and painting. It's really fascinating to sort of unravel 709 00:45:39,400 --> 00:45:42,759 Speaker 1: that we might understand more than the folks actually at 710 00:45:42,800 --> 00:45:46,000 Speaker 1: that time did about what they were doing. Yeah, it 711 00:45:46,120 --> 00:45:51,200 Speaker 1: is so interesting. It's like piecing this puzzle together backwards 712 00:45:51,360 --> 00:45:57,239 Speaker 1: as human society. And another interesting way that this UV 713 00:45:57,400 --> 00:46:01,000 Speaker 1: research can help us understand the world is it may 714 00:46:01,040 --> 00:46:06,720 Speaker 1: help us understand our impact on animals. So, um, power 715 00:46:06,840 --> 00:46:10,520 Speaker 1: lines typically look pretty boring to us, maybe unless they 716 00:46:10,520 --> 00:46:13,879 Speaker 1: explode and like a you know, transformer explodes and then 717 00:46:13,920 --> 00:46:16,680 Speaker 1: you you you do get to see an interesting and 718 00:46:16,840 --> 00:46:20,959 Speaker 1: very dangerous light show. But two animals that can see 719 00:46:21,080 --> 00:46:25,160 Speaker 1: UV light, power lines are horrifying looking all the time. 720 00:46:25,719 --> 00:46:28,839 Speaker 1: So the UV light that power lines emit look like 721 00:46:28,880 --> 00:46:34,200 Speaker 1: a violet blazing corona. And there is the thought that 722 00:46:34,239 --> 00:46:39,000 Speaker 1: this might actually frighten migratory birds who see this don't 723 00:46:39,040 --> 00:46:41,279 Speaker 1: know what the heck is going on, and so go 724 00:46:41,360 --> 00:46:45,200 Speaker 1: out of their way to avoid these power lines. Uh. 725 00:46:45,239 --> 00:46:48,800 Speaker 1: And so there are so many, so many like man 726 00:46:48,800 --> 00:46:53,319 Speaker 1: made things that we may see as a somewhat innocuous thing, 727 00:46:53,400 --> 00:46:58,080 Speaker 1: but then to an animal it is this terrifying, strange, 728 00:46:58,800 --> 00:47:04,400 Speaker 1: alien intrusion, and in their normal lives that is really amazing. 729 00:47:04,440 --> 00:47:07,560 Speaker 1: While these birds are basically seeing special effects, and we 730 00:47:07,640 --> 00:47:10,720 Speaker 1: of course are always emitting e m radiation in lots 731 00:47:10,719 --> 00:47:14,400 Speaker 1: of frequencies that we can't see. You know, radio for example, 732 00:47:14,440 --> 00:47:18,880 Speaker 1: in cell communications, these are all electromagnetic radiation. They're basically 733 00:47:18,920 --> 00:47:22,719 Speaker 1: just photons of different wavelengths that we can't see. So 734 00:47:22,760 --> 00:47:26,280 Speaker 1: if you could see radio waves, if you could see microwaves, 735 00:47:26,280 --> 00:47:29,319 Speaker 1: if you could see the frequencies for cell phones, then 736 00:47:29,640 --> 00:47:32,480 Speaker 1: the world would look crazy to you around big cities 737 00:47:32,520 --> 00:47:35,440 Speaker 1: and be all these intense lights flashing around all of 738 00:47:35,440 --> 00:47:38,000 Speaker 1: the time. I wonder if there are animals out there 739 00:47:38,040 --> 00:47:49,400 Speaker 1: that can't observe that. So we've talked about how you 740 00:47:49,440 --> 00:47:53,600 Speaker 1: can even have color in the natural world through pigmentation, 741 00:47:53,680 --> 00:47:58,759 Speaker 1: through structural coloration, through these incredible little microscopic structures that 742 00:47:59,239 --> 00:48:03,239 Speaker 1: bend in manpulate light. And we've talked about how other 743 00:48:03,320 --> 00:48:07,240 Speaker 1: animals will have these different ways of viewing the world. 744 00:48:07,280 --> 00:48:10,120 Speaker 1: Animals who can see UV light, and it just looks 745 00:48:10,160 --> 00:48:15,040 Speaker 1: like an entirely different amazing world than what we humans have, 746 00:48:15,360 --> 00:48:20,399 Speaker 1: unless humans have some modification done to their eye where 747 00:48:20,520 --> 00:48:23,879 Speaker 1: the lens is removed, in which case maybe humans can 748 00:48:24,080 --> 00:48:27,640 Speaker 1: see UV light. But now we're going to talk about 749 00:48:27,920 --> 00:48:36,640 Speaker 1: how humans can modify animals to make them exhibit amazing 750 00:48:36,719 --> 00:48:42,880 Speaker 1: colors and amazing u V glow using things called quantum dots. 751 00:48:42,960 --> 00:48:47,120 Speaker 1: So researchers who are always i think, trying to win 752 00:48:47,160 --> 00:48:54,400 Speaker 1: award for most science fiction like experiment fed silkworms quantum 753 00:48:54,520 --> 00:48:59,000 Speaker 1: dots which cause them to glow red under UV light. 754 00:48:59,760 --> 00:49:06,200 Speaker 1: And these quantum dots are nanoscale crystals and are subject 755 00:49:06,280 --> 00:49:10,920 Speaker 1: to quantum effects, and the size of the particle can 756 00:49:10,960 --> 00:49:14,720 Speaker 1: determine which wavelength of light it will emit. And at 757 00:49:14,760 --> 00:49:17,640 Speaker 1: this point I'm going to hand things over to you, Daniel, 758 00:49:17,840 --> 00:49:20,720 Speaker 1: because I am sure you can give a much better 759 00:49:20,800 --> 00:49:24,200 Speaker 1: explanation of quantum dots than I could hope to do 760 00:49:24,400 --> 00:49:28,799 Speaker 1: unless I just open up Wikipedia and start reading it. Well, 761 00:49:28,840 --> 00:49:30,960 Speaker 1: first of all, I want to advise your listeners not 762 00:49:31,080 --> 00:49:34,120 Speaker 1: to eat a spoonful of quantum dots. Really not a 763 00:49:34,160 --> 00:49:36,400 Speaker 1: great idea, and I feel bad for those poor worms, 764 00:49:36,440 --> 00:49:38,960 Speaker 1: you know, subjectly to that experiment, but I hope they've 765 00:49:39,000 --> 00:49:43,040 Speaker 1: got some awesome superpowers. Quantum dots really are awesome. They're 766 00:49:43,040 --> 00:49:45,960 Speaker 1: sort of like an engineered atom. You know, you were 767 00:49:46,000 --> 00:49:48,520 Speaker 1: talking earlier about pigments and why some of them are 768 00:49:48,560 --> 00:49:51,600 Speaker 1: blue and some of them are red, and microscopically, that's 769 00:49:51,640 --> 00:49:55,480 Speaker 1: because the atoms that make up those pigments have quantized 770 00:49:55,560 --> 00:49:58,760 Speaker 1: energy levels. The electrons that are whizzing around the nuclei. 771 00:49:59,040 --> 00:50:01,520 Speaker 1: They can't just have an the arbitrary energy. There's like 772 00:50:01,560 --> 00:50:04,759 Speaker 1: a ladder of allowed energies, and when the electron goes 773 00:50:04,920 --> 00:50:07,920 Speaker 1: down one step, it gives off that much energy in 774 00:50:08,040 --> 00:50:10,920 Speaker 1: terms of a photon. So the spacing of that ladder 775 00:50:11,120 --> 00:50:14,080 Speaker 1: determines the photons that an atom can emit, and that's 776 00:50:14,080 --> 00:50:17,400 Speaker 1: why some emit blue and some emit red. That's really awesome, 777 00:50:17,640 --> 00:50:19,879 Speaker 1: But it would be cool to like engineer your own 778 00:50:19,960 --> 00:50:22,360 Speaker 1: to say, oh, I want this specific set of ladder, 779 00:50:22,400 --> 00:50:24,440 Speaker 1: so I get these colors. I want this ladder so 780 00:50:24,480 --> 00:50:26,880 Speaker 1: I get those colors. It's pretty hard to do with 781 00:50:26,920 --> 00:50:29,680 Speaker 1: atoms because they're kind of finicky and tiny and annoying, 782 00:50:29,960 --> 00:50:33,320 Speaker 1: and you need like magnetic fields and lasers and weird 783 00:50:33,400 --> 00:50:36,839 Speaker 1: vacuum chambers to manipulate them. So people have figured out 784 00:50:36,880 --> 00:50:40,360 Speaker 1: a way to sort of engineer different energy levels using 785 00:50:40,440 --> 00:50:43,640 Speaker 1: quantum dots, which, as you say, are basically tiny little 786 00:50:43,680 --> 00:50:48,200 Speaker 1: crystals of semiconductors. So my conductors sit right between an 787 00:50:48,200 --> 00:50:51,719 Speaker 1: insulator that doesn't conduct electricity and a conductor or like 788 00:50:51,719 --> 00:50:55,160 Speaker 1: a metal where electrons just flow free, and so electrons 789 00:50:55,280 --> 00:50:57,839 Speaker 1: sort of flow free, and if you make them small enough, 790 00:50:58,160 --> 00:51:01,560 Speaker 1: then they get weird quantum effects. Quantum effects usually come 791 00:51:01,640 --> 00:51:05,280 Speaker 1: from confinement, from requiring an electron to be like bound 792 00:51:05,280 --> 00:51:07,680 Speaker 1: to an atom or stuck in a little hole somewhere. 793 00:51:08,280 --> 00:51:11,120 Speaker 1: And so they can like put ingredients in this solution 794 00:51:11,239 --> 00:51:13,279 Speaker 1: and heat them up and then have them form these 795 00:51:13,320 --> 00:51:16,800 Speaker 1: tiny little micro crystals that can do sort of amazing things, 796 00:51:17,200 --> 00:51:21,200 Speaker 1: And there's potentially really incredible, like science fiction like applications 797 00:51:21,200 --> 00:51:25,239 Speaker 1: for these things, you know, incredible displays or solar cells 798 00:51:25,360 --> 00:51:29,120 Speaker 1: or super tiny electronics. You know, printing like with a 799 00:51:29,200 --> 00:51:33,239 Speaker 1: laser printer, um printing like with a laser printer, electronic 800 00:51:33,320 --> 00:51:36,360 Speaker 1: circuits made out of quantum dots. It's going to be 801 00:51:36,360 --> 00:51:39,360 Speaker 1: pretty awesome. That all sounds cool, But what if we 802 00:51:39,520 --> 00:51:44,360 Speaker 1: feed these to a bunch of larvae. Well, I suggest 803 00:51:44,400 --> 00:51:47,000 Speaker 1: that you get the larvae to sign off first, you know, 804 00:51:47,160 --> 00:51:49,360 Speaker 1: sign the way their rights so they don't sue you 805 00:51:49,440 --> 00:51:52,000 Speaker 1: when they start to glow weird colors. I've never seen 806 00:51:52,000 --> 00:51:54,200 Speaker 1: a larvae try to hold a pencil, but I'm sure 807 00:51:54,200 --> 00:51:57,799 Speaker 1: it's it's pretty adorable and awkward. And you might have 808 00:51:57,800 --> 00:52:00,440 Speaker 1: seen quantum dots in real life because they're all already 809 00:52:00,560 --> 00:52:04,320 Speaker 1: in televisions Like quantum dot televisions have been around since 810 00:52:04,360 --> 00:52:08,600 Speaker 1: two thousand fifteen. Wow, I mean my TV is pretty cheap, 811 00:52:08,680 --> 00:52:11,680 Speaker 1: so I kind of doubt it. But that is really 812 00:52:11,760 --> 00:52:14,600 Speaker 1: really cool. So when these quantum dots, so the ones 813 00:52:14,719 --> 00:52:18,560 Speaker 1: that are fed to these silkworms are like six nanometers, 814 00:52:18,600 --> 00:52:21,880 Speaker 1: which I guess is the magic size for the red 815 00:52:21,960 --> 00:52:27,120 Speaker 1: emitting quantum dots. They're hit with UV light and this 816 00:52:27,320 --> 00:52:30,440 Speaker 1: will cause them to glow red. Now why why do 817 00:52:30,480 --> 00:52:34,239 Speaker 1: you need that UV light to see that red glow? So, 818 00:52:34,400 --> 00:52:37,200 Speaker 1: just like with any sort of material, you can absorb 819 00:52:37,239 --> 00:52:40,839 Speaker 1: it some frequencies and emit it some frequencies, and some 820 00:52:40,880 --> 00:52:44,160 Speaker 1: materials like to emit in different frequencies than they absorb, 821 00:52:44,440 --> 00:52:46,239 Speaker 1: so they take an energy and then they sort of 822 00:52:46,280 --> 00:52:49,600 Speaker 1: like down shifted to a lower wavelength and then emit. 823 00:52:49,960 --> 00:52:52,000 Speaker 1: So I don't know the details here, but I'm imagining 824 00:52:52,040 --> 00:52:54,960 Speaker 1: that's what's happening that they sort of but I'm imagining 825 00:52:54,960 --> 00:52:58,000 Speaker 1: that's what's happening. They sort of wavelength down shifting, So 826 00:52:58,040 --> 00:53:00,680 Speaker 1: you send in UV photons, which are very high energy, 827 00:53:01,080 --> 00:53:03,600 Speaker 1: and then it bounces around inside the material for a 828 00:53:03,640 --> 00:53:06,719 Speaker 1: little while and then emits as a red photon. Yeah, 829 00:53:06,760 --> 00:53:10,480 Speaker 1: and that would actually be the same or similar mechanism 830 00:53:10,520 --> 00:53:16,439 Speaker 1: as biofluorescence, where you can hit an living organism with 831 00:53:16,719 --> 00:53:20,440 Speaker 1: some UV light and they fluoresce under that UV light, 832 00:53:20,800 --> 00:53:24,680 Speaker 1: which is different from bioluminescence because the bioluminescence it's actually 833 00:53:24,760 --> 00:53:28,919 Speaker 1: a light created by a chemical reaction that produces light, 834 00:53:28,960 --> 00:53:33,640 Speaker 1: whereas with biofluorescence, they're actually taking in UV light and 835 00:53:33,719 --> 00:53:36,920 Speaker 1: re emitting it at a different sort of energy level. 836 00:53:36,960 --> 00:53:39,319 Speaker 1: Which it sounds like that's sort of what's happening with 837 00:53:39,360 --> 00:53:42,720 Speaker 1: these quantum dots. And now I'm terrified that your listeners 838 00:53:42,760 --> 00:53:44,680 Speaker 1: are going to take laser pointers and shoot them at 839 00:53:44,680 --> 00:53:47,440 Speaker 1: all sorts of creators hoping that they'll glow crazy colors. 840 00:53:47,640 --> 00:53:50,120 Speaker 1: Please don't do that. People don't do that. But also 841 00:53:50,200 --> 00:53:54,200 Speaker 1: that is what researchers are doing. They're collecting like roadkill 842 00:53:54,560 --> 00:53:58,759 Speaker 1: of variety of animals, and just whenever they find a specimen, 843 00:53:58,800 --> 00:54:02,200 Speaker 1: they like try to see if it glows under UV light, 844 00:54:02,239 --> 00:54:06,800 Speaker 1: because they keep discovering all these different animals, especially marsupials 845 00:54:06,840 --> 00:54:11,560 Speaker 1: for some strange reason, actually glow under UV light and 846 00:54:12,040 --> 00:54:15,360 Speaker 1: we don't know why, and so it is that is 847 00:54:15,680 --> 00:54:18,680 Speaker 1: you joke, but there are researchers doing exactly that, Like 848 00:54:18,719 --> 00:54:21,640 Speaker 1: they'll find a dead specimen and just sort of see 849 00:54:21,680 --> 00:54:27,680 Speaker 1: if it glows. Well, what a job, corpses with lasers 850 00:54:27,680 --> 00:54:31,239 Speaker 1: and see what happens? I collect road kill and bring 851 00:54:31,280 --> 00:54:35,680 Speaker 1: it back to my laboratory. Yeah, it's it is really interesting. 852 00:54:35,719 --> 00:54:42,239 Speaker 1: And so we're essentially turning these silkworms into biofluorescent animals, 853 00:54:42,280 --> 00:54:46,360 Speaker 1: except that we are, they're sort of artificially biofluorescence. So 854 00:54:46,480 --> 00:54:50,680 Speaker 1: by being fed these quantum dots that glow red under 855 00:54:50,840 --> 00:54:54,920 Speaker 1: UV light, not only did the silkworms glow red, but 856 00:54:55,120 --> 00:54:59,799 Speaker 1: so did their silk, their cocoons, and the adult moth 857 00:55:00,000 --> 00:55:05,200 Speaker 1: bodies after metamorphosis, so they really are what they eat, 858 00:55:05,320 --> 00:55:08,920 Speaker 1: like they eat quantum dots, and so their whole world 859 00:55:08,960 --> 00:55:13,000 Speaker 1: becomes quantum dots and they retain that. And because the 860 00:55:13,120 --> 00:55:17,400 Speaker 1: silk is probably is made out of you know, the 861 00:55:17,440 --> 00:55:21,040 Speaker 1: food that they eat and expressed and turned into silk, 862 00:55:21,160 --> 00:55:24,359 Speaker 1: of course the silk then is going to also glow red, 863 00:55:24,520 --> 00:55:28,920 Speaker 1: and so will their cocoons. And after they go through metamorphosis, 864 00:55:28,960 --> 00:55:34,120 Speaker 1: their adult bodies glowed red and even their eggs were fluorescent. 865 00:55:34,480 --> 00:55:39,480 Speaker 1: But it finally ended with the second generations of silkworms born, 866 00:55:39,800 --> 00:55:44,080 Speaker 1: they no longer glowed. Uh so it only lasted for 867 00:55:44,640 --> 00:55:49,160 Speaker 1: the initial silkworms lifespan. But the fact that it was 868 00:55:49,239 --> 00:55:52,520 Speaker 1: able to produce all of these effects be retained in 869 00:55:52,560 --> 00:55:57,200 Speaker 1: its silk and its cocoon after metamorphosis, it is pretty interesting. 870 00:55:57,239 --> 00:56:01,200 Speaker 1: It's a very pervasive way to just by feeding this 871 00:56:01,280 --> 00:56:05,640 Speaker 1: animal without actually tampering with its genetics, directly turning it 872 00:56:05,719 --> 00:56:09,840 Speaker 1: into a biofluorescent animal. That's pretty awesome. And it makes 873 00:56:10,000 --> 00:56:13,720 Speaker 1: quantum silk out of which you can leave like quantum shirts. 874 00:56:14,239 --> 00:56:16,640 Speaker 1: That sounds pretty cool. You know, people put quantum and 875 00:56:16,680 --> 00:56:18,399 Speaker 1: everything in these days, but in this case, it might 876 00:56:18,480 --> 00:56:22,760 Speaker 1: actually be justified. Now you mentioned that you typically don't 877 00:56:22,800 --> 00:56:25,680 Speaker 1: want to eat these quantum dots. Now why is that? 878 00:56:26,000 --> 00:56:28,760 Speaker 1: Oh man, these quantum dots are made out of crazy stuff. 879 00:56:28,800 --> 00:56:31,160 Speaker 1: You know, the kind of materials you need to make 880 00:56:31,280 --> 00:56:35,960 Speaker 1: semiconductors can be like weird heavy metals, you know, germanium 881 00:56:36,000 --> 00:56:38,279 Speaker 1: and all sorts of craziest stuff. You definitely do not 882 00:56:38,400 --> 00:56:41,239 Speaker 1: want to be consuming these things. Yeah, I think that 883 00:56:41,600 --> 00:56:44,919 Speaker 1: in this case, for these silkworms, I believe I read 884 00:56:45,000 --> 00:56:48,799 Speaker 1: they derived it from some material that was similar to 885 00:56:48,880 --> 00:56:51,960 Speaker 1: the mulberry leaves that they would eat naturally. So I 886 00:56:52,040 --> 00:56:57,399 Speaker 1: don't think it was hurting these uh, these silkworms. But yeah, 887 00:56:57,600 --> 00:57:00,560 Speaker 1: don't like go down to your nearest hard where a store, 888 00:57:00,600 --> 00:57:03,080 Speaker 1: pick up some quantum dots and just chug them, because 889 00:57:03,120 --> 00:57:05,600 Speaker 1: that's not going to be that's not going to be great. 890 00:57:07,360 --> 00:57:11,399 Speaker 1: Ask you a doctor before eating cadmium. But I do. 891 00:57:11,520 --> 00:57:16,080 Speaker 1: I I again, I feel somewhat like these these invertebrates 892 00:57:16,080 --> 00:57:20,440 Speaker 1: are getting to live cyberpunk future whereas we are not. 893 00:57:20,680 --> 00:57:22,640 Speaker 1: Because I was thinking as a kid, you know, you 894 00:57:22,640 --> 00:57:26,120 Speaker 1: would get dippin dots, and so quantum dots sound like 895 00:57:26,160 --> 00:57:29,600 Speaker 1: a more advanced version of dippin dots where maybe maybe 896 00:57:29,680 --> 00:57:33,680 Speaker 1: you could have glowing ice cream of the future. And 897 00:57:33,720 --> 00:57:38,160 Speaker 1: I wanted holograms, but only bees and silkworm get get 898 00:57:38,240 --> 00:57:42,760 Speaker 1: these futuristic fun treatments. I don't know, I'm imagining quantum 899 00:57:42,760 --> 00:57:45,600 Speaker 1: ice cream. Quantum ice cream dots is like a bowl 900 00:57:45,640 --> 00:57:48,160 Speaker 1: full of glowing worms or something. It doesn't sound bad 901 00:57:48,200 --> 00:57:51,600 Speaker 1: appealing to me. I'm pretty happy with old fashioned ice cream. 902 00:57:51,640 --> 00:57:53,760 Speaker 1: I don't think we need to upgrade it to quantum 903 00:57:53,800 --> 00:57:57,720 Speaker 1: ice cream. That doesn't sound like the words of a 904 00:57:57,800 --> 00:58:03,919 Speaker 1: particle physicist to me. You know, it's all about work 905 00:58:03,960 --> 00:58:09,680 Speaker 1: life balance, old fashioned, old fashioned dinner and newfangled and 906 00:58:09,800 --> 00:58:13,480 Speaker 1: newfangled work times, splitting particles at work and having a 907 00:58:13,560 --> 00:58:19,840 Speaker 1: banana split at home. You go exactly, So before we go, 908 00:58:20,320 --> 00:58:23,640 Speaker 1: I know, this whole episode has been about a feast 909 00:58:23,720 --> 00:58:27,120 Speaker 1: for the eyes, but now we are going to have 910 00:58:27,160 --> 00:58:30,880 Speaker 1: a little dessert for the ears because we're gonna play 911 00:58:31,800 --> 00:58:36,360 Speaker 1: a game of guess who's squawking the Mystery animal sound game. 912 00:58:37,080 --> 00:58:41,640 Speaker 1: So every week I play a mystery animal sound and 913 00:58:41,960 --> 00:58:44,760 Speaker 1: you the listener, and you the guests, try to guess 914 00:58:44,840 --> 00:58:49,840 Speaker 1: who is making that sound, and sometimes the answer is surprising. 915 00:58:51,040 --> 00:58:55,919 Speaker 1: So the hint last week was this isn't a cat, 916 00:58:56,160 --> 00:58:59,800 Speaker 1: it's not a dog, and despite that smell, it's not 917 00:59:00,000 --> 00:59:06,360 Speaker 1: a skunk. So, Daniel, can you guess who is making 918 00:59:06,360 --> 00:59:11,040 Speaker 1: that sound? M Well, it didn't sound very happy, so 919 00:59:11,040 --> 00:59:14,040 Speaker 1: I'm gonna guess some sort of rodent, maybe a squirrel 920 00:59:14,240 --> 00:59:18,240 Speaker 1: being force fed quantum dots by a researcher that's not 921 00:59:18,400 --> 00:59:23,080 Speaker 1: very caring about their feelings. You know, there are actually 922 00:59:23,160 --> 00:59:28,000 Speaker 1: certain flying squirrels that will glow under UV light just naturally. 923 00:59:28,120 --> 00:59:33,720 Speaker 1: They weren't force fed any quantum dots. But no, you're incorrect. 924 00:59:33,880 --> 00:59:37,960 Speaker 1: This is not a rodent. It is actually a fox. 925 00:59:38,360 --> 00:59:42,720 Speaker 1: This is one of the many sounds that a fox makes. 926 00:59:43,520 --> 00:59:47,520 Speaker 1: This fox in particular is sort of sleepy, sort of 927 00:59:47,560 --> 00:59:52,680 Speaker 1: relaxed and issuing a gentle little call just to kind 928 00:59:52,680 --> 00:59:56,360 Speaker 1: of say hello to one of its fox friends that 929 00:59:56,520 --> 01:00:00,080 Speaker 1: is nearby. Oh it's a cozy, snuggling fox. It's a 930 01:00:00,200 --> 01:00:05,160 Speaker 1: cozy little fox. Yes, Oh, I'm glad. It's a happy sound. 931 01:00:05,680 --> 01:00:08,040 Speaker 1: Maybe it's cozy because it just ate one of those 932 01:00:08,240 --> 01:00:11,960 Speaker 1: quantum glowing squirrels. I don't know, but yes it is. 933 01:00:12,160 --> 01:00:16,080 Speaker 1: It is a relaxed sound from a fox. Foxes have 934 01:00:16,160 --> 01:00:20,120 Speaker 1: a wide variety of calls to express themselves, from mating 935 01:00:20,160 --> 01:00:25,120 Speaker 1: calls to alarm calls, to fighting cackles or play laughter, 936 01:00:25,880 --> 01:00:28,760 Speaker 1: and even these pearl like sounds they can make when 937 01:00:28,800 --> 01:00:32,880 Speaker 1: they're comfortable, or these little like murmurs that are sort 938 01:00:32,920 --> 01:00:35,280 Speaker 1: of like, hey, I'm over here, how are you doing? 939 01:00:35,680 --> 01:00:38,920 Speaker 1: Kind of sounds. As far as I can tell now, 940 01:00:38,960 --> 01:00:42,120 Speaker 1: I don't speak fluent fox, so something may have gotten 941 01:00:42,240 --> 01:00:46,440 Speaker 1: lost in translation. As adorable as foxes are and the 942 01:00:46,560 --> 01:00:51,800 Speaker 1: sounds they make, they are terrible pets and unless you 943 01:00:51,880 --> 01:00:58,720 Speaker 1: are prepared for an undomesticated, incredibly stinky, hyperactive beast, they 944 01:00:58,800 --> 01:01:04,520 Speaker 1: are extremely smelly, which often surprises people because you know, 945 01:01:04,560 --> 01:01:07,320 Speaker 1: we think of a skunk now that makes a bad smell, 946 01:01:07,360 --> 01:01:11,400 Speaker 1: But foxes are really smelly and not eat They won't 947 01:01:11,400 --> 01:01:14,480 Speaker 1: even just kind of like spray you in self defense. 948 01:01:14,640 --> 01:01:18,760 Speaker 1: They are smelly almost all the time because they have 949 01:01:19,040 --> 01:01:22,840 Speaker 1: a number of scent glands, both on their tails or 950 01:01:22,960 --> 01:01:26,480 Speaker 1: near their anus, on their feet and under their chins, 951 01:01:27,280 --> 01:01:31,960 Speaker 1: and these scent glands will excrete a musk, which is 952 01:01:32,040 --> 01:01:35,480 Speaker 1: basically a calling card for the foxes, like leaving a 953 01:01:35,480 --> 01:01:39,960 Speaker 1: little business card in the form of a real stinky smell, 954 01:01:40,600 --> 01:01:45,200 Speaker 1: and their feces and urine is also riddled with this musk, 955 01:01:45,400 --> 01:01:50,080 Speaker 1: so their urine in particular is extremely foul smelling. I 956 01:01:50,120 --> 01:01:54,080 Speaker 1: would never recommend a fox as a pet. Typically, pet 957 01:01:54,120 --> 01:01:57,400 Speaker 1: foxes are only tamed, which means that they are not 958 01:01:57,920 --> 01:02:01,600 Speaker 1: They have not been genetically my defied to be more 959 01:02:01,760 --> 01:02:05,600 Speaker 1: calm in our presence. They have just been raised since 960 01:02:05,680 --> 01:02:10,479 Speaker 1: they were a pup to basically tolerate humans. But yes, 961 01:02:10,560 --> 01:02:15,360 Speaker 1: I just I think the stinkiness alone should be enough 962 01:02:15,480 --> 01:02:21,000 Speaker 1: to ward people off from owning foxes as pets. Wow, 963 01:02:21,000 --> 01:02:23,600 Speaker 1: well you just wow, Well you just answered too deep 964 01:02:23,640 --> 01:02:27,160 Speaker 1: philosophical questions. They're not just the age old question of 965 01:02:27,400 --> 01:02:30,080 Speaker 1: what does the fox say? But also how does the 966 01:02:30,120 --> 01:02:35,800 Speaker 1: fox stink? Pretty badly? Smells pretty bad. I mean they 967 01:02:35,800 --> 01:02:38,800 Speaker 1: have a good sense of smell, but a bad sense 968 01:02:38,840 --> 01:02:43,520 Speaker 1: of taste because of how bad they smell. So onto 969 01:02:44,120 --> 01:02:48,360 Speaker 1: this week's mystery animal sound and the hint is is 970 01:02:48,360 --> 01:02:52,160 Speaker 1: it a helicopter, a jackhammer, a lawn more or something 971 01:02:52,200 --> 01:03:00,840 Speaker 1: from Greek mythology? Daniel, who do you think is squawking? There? 972 01:03:02,280 --> 01:03:04,920 Speaker 1: It sounds to me like fluttering of wings. Is it 973 01:03:05,040 --> 01:03:08,160 Speaker 1: like maybe a super close up microphone to a bee's wings. 974 01:03:08,720 --> 01:03:13,000 Speaker 1: That's an interesting guest. Well, you will find out if 975 01:03:13,040 --> 01:03:18,920 Speaker 1: you're correct on next week's episode of Creature Feature next Wednesday. 976 01:03:18,960 --> 01:03:22,800 Speaker 1: If you out there think you know who was squawking, 977 01:03:22,880 --> 01:03:25,040 Speaker 1: you can write to me a Creature Feature Pod at 978 01:03:25,080 --> 01:03:28,440 Speaker 1: gmail dot com. I'm also on Twitter at Creature Feet Pod. 979 01:03:28,680 --> 01:03:34,000 Speaker 1: That's feteeth. How does something very different? Daniel, thank you 980 01:03:34,320 --> 01:03:37,760 Speaker 1: so much for joining me today. This was a wonderful 981 01:03:38,480 --> 01:03:42,960 Speaker 1: mixture of both biology and physics resulting in a beautiful 982 01:03:43,080 --> 01:03:48,880 Speaker 1: rainbow of amazing animals. Where can people find you are? 983 01:03:48,960 --> 01:03:51,640 Speaker 1: You can find me at our podcast Daniel and Jorge 984 01:03:51,920 --> 01:03:56,280 Speaker 1: Explain the Universe on Twitter at Daniel and Jorge or 985 01:03:56,360 --> 01:03:59,840 Speaker 1: online at www dot Daniel and Jorge dot com. Come 986 01:03:59,840 --> 01:04:02,440 Speaker 1: on over and talk about the physics of the universe 987 01:04:02,480 --> 01:04:05,640 Speaker 1: with us, and I am sometimes on the show when 988 01:04:05,800 --> 01:04:09,280 Speaker 1: Jorge has to step out, or as some people theorize, 989 01:04:09,320 --> 01:04:13,480 Speaker 1: we're simply the same person feed enough quantum dots of 990 01:04:13,560 --> 01:04:19,080 Speaker 1: Jorge and becomes a biologist named Pete. Thank you guys 991 01:04:19,200 --> 01:04:21,960 Speaker 1: so much for listening. If you're enjoying the show and 992 01:04:22,080 --> 01:04:25,480 Speaker 1: you leave a rating and review, I would be so 993 01:04:25,680 --> 01:04:29,400 Speaker 1: very grateful, And I read all the reviews, even the 994 01:04:29,440 --> 01:04:33,000 Speaker 1: reviews saying like, hey, I want to eat quantum dots, 995 01:04:33,240 --> 01:04:36,520 Speaker 1: and then I would say, hey, don't do that. Uh 996 01:04:36,560 --> 01:04:39,880 Speaker 1: if I could respond to the reviews, but I still 997 01:04:39,920 --> 01:04:43,640 Speaker 1: appreciate them and thank you to these space Costlics for 998 01:04:43,760 --> 01:04:47,160 Speaker 1: their super awesome song. Exo Alumina Creature features a production 999 01:04:47,160 --> 01:04:50,560 Speaker 1: of I Heart Radio. For more podcasts like the one 1000 01:04:50,600 --> 01:04:53,120 Speaker 1: you Just heard, visit the I Heard Radio app Apple podcast, 1001 01:04:53,280 --> 01:04:55,920 Speaker 1: or Hey guess what whereever you listen to your favorite shows, 1002 01:04:56,040 --> 01:04:58,000 Speaker 1: I don't. I don't judge you. I do judge you 1003 01:04:58,000 --> 01:05:00,200 Speaker 1: if you eat quantum dots, but I won't judge you 1004 01:05:00,400 --> 01:05:04,120 Speaker 1: for where you listen to your podcasts. See you next Wednesday. 1005 01:05:06,760 --> 01:05:06,800 Speaker 1: M