Speaker 1: Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to Bob Left Podcast. Today we
Speaker 1: are going to get to the bottom of the band,
Speaker 1: but Gloria's son. We have the whole team here. Let's
Speaker 1: start it. This is audio, so everybody's gonna describe and
Speaker 1: you can't see. But let's start at this end of
Speaker 1: the table. Nick Hadaway BMG Records, head of promotion. Okay,
Speaker 1: Jason Murray glorified babysitter slash manager of these young men,
Speaker 1: j Emmon's assistant babysitter. Okay, you're in the band, okay,
Speaker 1: bred Emmon's baby. Okay, you're the you're the lead singer. Okay.
Speaker 1: You played last night at the ol Ray. What was
Speaker 1: going on there? Why was everybody there? Um? I don't know. Okay,
Speaker 1: let's say you're a band from Canada. My research says
Speaker 1: you're not getting any terrestrial radio play in Los Angeles,
Speaker 1: So what was bringing people to the show? I would
Speaker 1: say the live show we played in l A how
Speaker 1: many times? Now? Three? Three? Yeah? Would you wed you
Speaker 1: played before the l Ray's remember the Roxy Roxy door? Yeah?
Speaker 1: What was that Roxy? What? You played the will Turn
Speaker 1: before you played the l Well, it's a live nation
Speaker 1: building I guess that's why are you now? You open
Speaker 1: for the Stones? Right? How many gigs did you do
Speaker 1: with the Stones too? Okay? Because the guys who are
Speaker 1: the promoters of the Stones were there last night and say, hey,
Speaker 1: you know from a g that, uh you're one of
Speaker 1: their acts. Okay, So you found there was an increase
Speaker 1: in audience each time you played in l A. Yeah,
Speaker 1: we never we haven't come here and played on our
Speaker 1: own backs and three years. So so this is kind
Speaker 1: of like a I couldn't tell you that there's a
Speaker 1: I wouldn't know you know what the increase would be
Speaker 1: because usually we come here and open for other bands.
Speaker 1: Who have you open for the Struts? Uh? Welsh Arms?
Speaker 1: We headlined the roxy last time we're here? Shows you
Speaker 1: how much I know. Okay, let's go back to the beginning.
Speaker 1: You're from Canada, how does the band begin? Um? Well,
Speaker 1: I actually had moved out to Halifax to start the
Speaker 1: band with Great A lot of people are Americans. They
Speaker 1: know nothing about anywhere other than America. So where where
Speaker 1: was your born? As Cheech and Chunks at Kingston, Ontario? Kingston,
Speaker 1: Ontario for those who are ignorant, how far from Toronto?
Speaker 1: Two hours? Okay? And you grow up in that environment.
Speaker 1: What's Kingston like for someone who's never lived there? Small town, quaint,
Speaker 1: little college town. Okay. What your parents were for a
Speaker 1: living count welder and employed? And how many kids in
Speaker 1: the family? Three? Okay, and you're we're in the high
Speaker 1: from the oldest. We have a middle brother, Dustin, and
Speaker 1: then there's Brett Young. Okay, so you grow up in
Speaker 1: a house. Your father is an accountant, as he's playing
Speaker 1: a lot of music. He's a welder actually, but no,
Speaker 1: nobody in our family was musical for us. Okay, what
Speaker 1: I thought he did? I get it wrong about account
Speaker 1: Your mother is an account Sorry about that. Okay. You
Speaker 1: two guys are in the band, the middle person boy
Speaker 1: or a girl boy? And what is he up to?
Speaker 1: He's a contractor? Okay. So you're in Kingston. Are you
Speaker 1: addicted to the radio? No? No, I used to wear construction.
Speaker 1: I hated the radio. They play the same Okay, we
Speaker 1: can look it up on the internet. How old are you? Okay?
Speaker 1: So you hear that voice in in the band? You
Speaker 1: do what? Play guitar? Play guitar? And you okay? So
Speaker 1: then were you big music fans? So how did you
Speaker 1: get into music, Dad, Dad and mom, Beach Boys and
Speaker 1: John Cougar mellon camp. When we were really young, we
Speaker 1: just put the cassette in and help me. Rondo was like,
Speaker 1: you know, a hit going long road trips. And then
Speaker 1: I developed my own taste eventually, but that's where it
Speaker 1: all started. There's gigantic, like I don't even know what
Speaker 1: to call it, like cassette holder, suitcase with cassettes. Okay,
Speaker 1: So there was a lot of music in the home. Well,
Speaker 1: there was music there, but it wasn't like it wasn't
Speaker 1: like we were a music family. It was like you
Speaker 1: get in the car and you put a cassette on,
Speaker 1: like okay, Well, if you were home, you were not
Speaker 1: on a road trip, would there be music playing because
Speaker 1: of J. I would listen to music because of J,
Speaker 1: but not because of my parents. Okay, so your parents
Speaker 1: would not be playing music. So were you were you?
Speaker 1: How did you find out about new music? Good question,
Speaker 1: You know the same way everybody else does. You Just well,
Speaker 1: you know, you're younger than a lot of people the
Speaker 1: old days. Baby, when were found out about on the radio,
Speaker 1: gen X, MTV, about what your friends are doing, It's
Speaker 1: like you know your friends listening to a Green Day learning.
Speaker 1: When I come around on the guitar, you you're like, oh,
Speaker 1: that's cool, I want to learn that too, and then
Speaker 1: it kind of like just snowballs like that. Okay, let's
Speaker 1: start at the beginning. When do you pick up an
Speaker 1: instrument that was probably grade five, grade six, so like
Speaker 1: ten eleven, And what was the inspiration? My best friend
Speaker 1: had a guitar, so I was like, dang, I want
Speaker 1: one of those two. And what was your first guitar?
Speaker 1: It was a Yamaha strat rip off type thing. It
Speaker 1: really sucked, like had like the floating bridge locking tuning
Speaker 1: things and I didn't even know how to use it
Speaker 1: since it was black and Johnson had the red one.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, and it I didn't even know how to
Speaker 1: tune the thing and you literally had to get an
Speaker 1: Alan key to actually unlock it. And like it was
Speaker 1: it was a whole thing. Like Okay, who paid for it? Um?
Speaker 1: Probably mom and dad. Okay, did you have any yamp? Yep?
Speaker 1: What was the amp? It was massive PV keyboard amp
Speaker 1: that would like blow the roof off the house on one.
Speaker 1: It was like it's like, I don't know who would
Speaker 1: sell eleven year old kid to say, I have no idea. Like,
Speaker 1: looking back on it, you're like, guy sold it to
Speaker 1: it to us five d bucks and it's like it's
Speaker 1: not even a guitar m first of all. And it's
Speaker 1: the loudest thing I've ever heard. And you bought this
Speaker 1: stuff new, were used used just from some guy you
Speaker 1: found from my guitar teacher. He's a bit of a shyster. Okay,
Speaker 1: So did you start guitar lessons before you had this equipment?
Speaker 1: What would what actually happened tell the story about your
Speaker 1: guitar teacher. So like the first like literally three years
Speaker 1: of my guitar lessons was learning uh whatever you like
Speaker 1: you call notes, like yeah, the bell baby books. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but it was like Jesus Loves Me and like jingle
Speaker 1: bells and I'm going to guitar lessons and I'm for
Speaker 1: three years. You didn't take a gat in another teacher.
Speaker 1: I just looked at I looked at my buddies and
Speaker 1: like they're going on the internet and getting tableture and
Speaker 1: playing like cool songs and I'm playing Jesus Loves Me.
Speaker 1: I'm like Jesus. There's a massive disconnect here. He's a
Speaker 1: quiet dude too, So he's not gonna say anything to anybody.
Speaker 1: He's not going to tell him. I'm I guess I'm
Speaker 1: persistent to a fault because I stuck with it and
Speaker 1: you read music to this day. Hell no, okay, before
Speaker 1: he sold you this loud amplifier and the rip off guitar,
Speaker 1: what were you playing like music wise? No? No, what
Speaker 1: did you use for a guitar? I don't have one
Speaker 1: like that was the first That was the beginning. Okay.
Speaker 1: So he sold you that stuff and then he gave
Speaker 1: you the lessons. Yeah, and for three years you're learning
Speaker 1: this religious stuff. You're not playing in any bands, You're
Speaker 1: not learning stuff at home to cassettes or anything. I'm trying,
Speaker 1: you know. But like I said, it's if you ever
Speaker 1: pick up a guitar for the first time, it's not
Speaker 1: an easy thing to navigate. It wasn't for me anyway. Um,
Speaker 1: everything everything Jay does is through brute for us, so
Speaker 1: like it never comes fast to him like it would?
Speaker 1: You agree with that? Absolutely? Okay? So when did it
Speaker 1: click or is it still not clicked? Um? For guitar,
Speaker 1: it's starting to click, you know. Um, I think it
Speaker 1: started to click when I really like I used to sing,
Speaker 1: so um, I would just lean on my buddy who
Speaker 1: could do like all all the November rain solos. You know,
Speaker 1: he played guitar. I just strump the chords and sing
Speaker 1: and we had a band, but it was more like
Speaker 1: us having a drinking competition on stage. And then I
Speaker 1: went and saw Brett's first band and I was like
Speaker 1: Jesus Christ was like that that's a singer right there. Okay,
Speaker 1: but a little bit slower. So how long after the
Speaker 1: three years do you start a band and hit the
Speaker 1: stage or what? We had really shitty bands for years,
Speaker 1: so like was always about starting things, but they sucked
Speaker 1: you know. Um, so did you ever get paid for
Speaker 1: being in these bands? You're just playing in the garage? Yeah,
Speaker 1: we would get free booze sometimes. And what were you
Speaker 1: up to? Well? I was like seven years old. I
Speaker 1: was at their concerts thinking they were the greatest bands
Speaker 1: of all time. I remember like being truly hurt when
Speaker 1: somebody didn't like the band. I remember I remember them
Speaker 1: playing and um, Kingston, there's this place called Confederation Basis
Speaker 1: Basin and it's just like you know the park you know,
Speaker 1: meant for like you know, events and stuff and they
Speaker 1: put on shows there and I remember this, you know,
Speaker 1: this guy that was in a band playing before them,
Speaker 1: this with you know, Space ear Rings is punk, you know,
Speaker 1: I thought he knew everything. Was like just chirping my
Speaker 1: brother's band like heavily. And I was like nine years old,
Speaker 1: and I fuck him, took him. I took him. I
Speaker 1: took him to task. Really I hated him in my
Speaker 1: whole life. Like I would meet people that, you know,
Speaker 1: you Jay was playing rock and roll, okay at an
Speaker 1: age when it wasn't cool to play rock. Yeah, okay,
Speaker 1: but you're you got all these guys you know playing
Speaker 1: you know, I have nothing against their music tastes or
Speaker 1: what they're playing, but they there was a certain thing
Speaker 1: in our in our town at least that the punks
Speaker 1: always they always had this arrogance about them that everybody
Speaker 1: else sucked. So you're separating the punks from rock and roll, yeah,
Speaker 1: and which isn't a real thing, but well no, it
Speaker 1: is a thing if you get that deep. Absolutely just
Speaker 1: want to make sure we get it straight. But in Kingston, Ontario,
Speaker 1: my brother, my brother would be playing these shows and
Speaker 1: he would be playing with punk bands and he'd be
Speaker 1: playing rock and roll and they would always chirp them
Speaker 1: and I was like a twelve year old kid and
Speaker 1: I and I would always chirp them back. And I
Speaker 1: was there at every show. They were my favorite band
Speaker 1: on Earth. I didn't know how shitty they were. J
Speaker 1: Jay tells me the ship they were shitty, but I
Speaker 1: I when I was young. You were the younger brothers.
Speaker 1: So how did you get into it? Him? Okay, Yeah,
Speaker 1: so how did you become a singer? Um, this is
Speaker 1: a funny story. I got asked to join a band
Speaker 1: and be the singer of the band because they knew
Speaker 1: I was a psycho. So I and you were how old? Okay?
Speaker 1: And had you sung like in school? The records? Nothing,
Speaker 1: So they just based on your identity said you'd be
Speaker 1: you'd be a good front man. Yeah, and uh. I
Speaker 1: joined the band and we had like three practices and
Speaker 1: then they stopped calling me, like and I was just
Speaker 1: kind of like, what's going on here? And then I
Speaker 1: found out like three or four weeks later that they
Speaker 1: had invited another person to joined the band, and I
Speaker 1: just kind of, you know, I was maybe, you know,
Speaker 1: one of the first I don't want to say failures,
Speaker 1: but you know, I felt very rejected as you. And
Speaker 1: I was playing basketball with my friend Richard Storms, and uh,
Speaker 1: he was like, yeah, I played the guitar, and I
Speaker 1: was like, all right, well, let's start a fucking band
Speaker 1: and beat these guys. So we went to his garage
Speaker 1: and he started playing like guitar like slash, like at
Speaker 1: least what I would. Yeah, and I was like, well,
Speaker 1: I better learn to sing. So I took the guitar
Speaker 1: and played weak Kings by a band called the Tragically
Speaker 1: Hip and from Kingston, and Uh. I literally locked myself
Speaker 1: in my room for five six hours a night and
Speaker 1: sang that song, just that song, until it sounded good
Speaker 1: to myself. And after that was we wrote a song
Speaker 1: called Rags and I never looked back. I wanted to
Speaker 1: do that for the rest of my life. It took
Speaker 1: over everything. Okay, were you any good in school? I
Speaker 1: was good at English literature, but I was so you
Speaker 1: were not like, you know, a Truan guy who's the
Speaker 1: problem in the clos room or anything. I was a
Speaker 1: little bit of Uh. I was more of a joker.
Speaker 1: I wasn't. I wouldn't say that I was a problem.
Speaker 1: I wasn't. It wasn't like a it wasn't a troubled
Speaker 1: youth by any means, but like my teachers would get
Speaker 1: very annoyed with me unless it was English class because
Speaker 1: I actually liked English class, so I listened. But okay,
Speaker 1: and at this late date, are you like a big
Speaker 1: reader or something? We all? Yeah, I mean Jay read
Speaker 1: quite a bit. Jay reads more than night what oh
Speaker 1: Jesus you name it like i've we we we we started.
Speaker 1: I started at least becoming an a real reader on Hemingway.
Speaker 1: I really loved Hemingway. And then I mean, some of
Speaker 1: my favorite books are like Comforter, Confederacy of Dunce. Is
Speaker 1: uh just just fiction novels. Okay, so you start this
Speaker 1: band and what do your parents say when they say
Speaker 1: you want to be a rock and roller? Well, Jay
Speaker 1: started the band and I joined, but I university literature,
Speaker 1: and I called my dad and I told him I
Speaker 1: was going to be a musician. And my mom didn't
Speaker 1: talk to me for a couple of weeks, maybe more
Speaker 1: after that, because you know, I just went online and
Speaker 1: canceled all my courses and I didn't want to give
Speaker 1: them a chance to talk me out of it. Um,
Speaker 1: but I quit everything, and my dad said, well, you
Speaker 1: better get a job. So I started working I call
Speaker 1: it springs, a stockboy in the back women's shoe store
Speaker 1: and played a bunch of terrible gigs for zero dollars
Speaker 1: until I joined the Glorious Suns and then we started
Speaker 1: making you know, the big bucks. Okay, just to be clear,
Speaker 1: the band with your friend, did you play in high school?
Speaker 1: Did you play any gigs? Do you ever get pass? Yeah? Well,
Speaker 1: we played as much as possible, like as much as
Speaker 1: a high school band. Like, we played as much as
Speaker 1: we possibly could. We had a fake manager that didn't
Speaker 1: do it anything. I mean, we thought we were gonna
Speaker 1: be the biggest band in the world, So I mean,
Speaker 1: any opportunity that came my way, we played. And that's
Speaker 1: the way that it goes. When you're starting, you like
Speaker 1: you just want to play your music. Okay, So how
Speaker 1: long did you go to university? A year and a half. Okay,
Speaker 1: At what point did you start this band? Were you
Speaker 1: playing original material or as opposed to covers? As as
Speaker 1: soon as I started playing in a band, all I
Speaker 1: want to do is play original material. But usually when
Speaker 1: you play original material, audiences are not interested. But I'm
Speaker 1: a good front man. As you are. I saw, okay, Jay,
Speaker 1: well he's going through these mental mashinations. What are you doing? Uh?
Speaker 1: When he's at school? You mean did you go to university?
Speaker 1: And how long did you go? For? Four years? So
Speaker 1: you graduated and so you were not going to make
Speaker 1: music your career at that point. Uh, well I had
Speaker 1: a band almost always, like I always had something cooking
Speaker 1: in the background. Um. I literally had no idea what
Speaker 1: I wanted to do. But you always talked that you
Speaker 1: actually did. That's not true. You always wanted to be
Speaker 1: in a band. Yeah, your whole life. I can remember
Speaker 1: you working and snapping and freaking out about like this
Speaker 1: is not what I want to do. That like when
Speaker 1: something clicked in my head when I was like twenty
Speaker 1: eight years old, or whenever I started this, I was
Speaker 1: like this, so today you're how old? And I was like,
Speaker 1: this is my last shot to actually do something. So
Speaker 1: that's bye, okay a little bit slower. So you you
Speaker 1: were kind of like a semi pro musician and you
Speaker 1: get really you graduated from college and you do what
Speaker 1: for like the next six year contractor construction. Um, but
Speaker 1: we still had a band then, like just playing around
Speaker 1: Kingston and you saw his band and thought what I
Speaker 1: was like, these high school kids blow us out of
Speaker 1: the water. Not not a question, it's like you put
Speaker 1: us back to back, like yeah, um yeah. But and
Speaker 1: so I saw his band, and then my band kind
Speaker 1: of broke up and fell apart, and then uh, we started,
Speaker 1: Brett and I started like writing together. We did like
Speaker 1: an acoustic project, and then the Stone Ponies. Don't forget
Speaker 1: the Stone Ponies. We'll tell me about that. It was
Speaker 1: the bass player from my band, Jay's roommate and oldest friend,
Speaker 1: Scott on the drums, Jay on guitars, and me playing
Speaker 1: acoustic and singing, okay. And what happened with that band? Uh? Nothing, nothing, okay.
Speaker 1: So how many years after you dropped out of university?
Speaker 1: Was it before it became you looked up with your brother?
Speaker 1: It was Glorious Sons. I dropped out of university to
Speaker 1: join the Glorious Sons and being my brother's band. Was
Speaker 1: it the Glorious Sons in name before Brett joined was
Speaker 1: Pete Rose and the Gamblers. That's pretty good, especially Sins.
Speaker 1: Right now he Rose, I'm saying he's straightened out. He
Speaker 1: should be in the band, but be in the Hall
Speaker 1: of fame. Okay, I think you should too. Okay, So
Speaker 1: it Pete Rose and the Gamblers. How does it become
Speaker 1: the Glorious Sons, um packer and the band or drummer. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it was just like, what about the Glorious Suns, And
Speaker 1: we're all like, wow, it's better than Pete Rose and
Speaker 1: the Gamblers. The only thing you know, when you talk
Speaker 1: about rock, which is its own side show today, of
Speaker 1: course people say there's the Rivals Son. No. I totally
Speaker 1: agree with you. I wish we were never ever named
Speaker 1: the Glorious Sons. I hate the name. If we were
Speaker 1: named something else, I could, I think we might have
Speaker 1: more success. I honestly think that we would be less
Speaker 1: looked at as like, uh, you know, bro rock and
Speaker 1: roll band. I think if we had, you know, a
Speaker 1: name with meaning at least, it would help. Okay. But
Speaker 1: when you he said you're going to become the Glorious Sons,
Speaker 1: will you air of the band the Rival Sons? No? No,
Speaker 1: not at all. Okay, So suddenly it's the Glorious Sons
Speaker 1: when you get together the two brothers. How many of
Speaker 1: the people in the band are still in the band today, Uh,
Speaker 1: everybody except our original guitar player. What happened to him?
Speaker 1: I didn't like the road? Okay, So when you start
Speaker 1: the band, you're twenty eight and Brett you are okay, Okay,
Speaker 1: what are you thinking? Then? I'm thinking that we're going
Speaker 1: to be the greatest rock and roll band. All right,
Speaker 1: So you're delusional, but okay, what do you think it delusion?
Speaker 1: You have to be delusional, but a lot of people
Speaker 1: are not delusional from the get go, and you be
Speaker 1: fud shedding a little bit, Jay, what are you thinking? Uh?
Speaker 1: I would rather go home and paint houses than not
Speaker 1: strive to be the greatest rock and roll band on earth,
Speaker 1: as soon as you don't want to wake up and
Speaker 1: be the best and just go home. Okay. So now
Speaker 1: you have the model because it tragically hip or from Kingston.
Speaker 1: But once you form a Gloria's Sons, what is the
Speaker 1: next step? Uh? Well, Brett literally he wasn't even the singer.
Speaker 1: He was the tambourine player. At first. He would just
Speaker 1: jump up and but we play who was a singer?
Speaker 1: And I sang and Andrew sing and but we noticed
Speaker 1: that Brett playing the tambourine was much more engaging than
Speaker 1: anything else on stage. So we started giving him more tasks.
Speaker 1: So then he played piano, and then he started singing,
Speaker 1: and then we started writing and then you know how
Speaker 1: long did that whole process take a couple of months?
Speaker 1: Like by the time we put out our first record,
Speaker 1: our producer was like, this guy needs to be singing
Speaker 1: all the songs. Okay, a little bit slower. You now
Speaker 1: have the band there now called the Glorious Sons. Brett
Speaker 1: starts out on the tambourine. How long before he becomes
Speaker 1: the singer? H yeah, probably like like full time singers. Okay,
Speaker 1: in that two years, when do you make the first
Speaker 1: record throughout the whole time recorded or recorded? Probably a
Speaker 1: year and a half. Okay, in that year and a half,
Speaker 1: are you are you playing live constantly? Where four times
Speaker 1: a week in Kingston, Ontario? I mean, can you make
Speaker 1: anybody playing four times a week? You know, we didn't
Speaker 1: make any money, Like we made enough barely to cover
Speaker 1: the bar tap. I remember being like getting paid, giving
Speaker 1: it all back to the bartender and him being like,
Speaker 1: give me your credit card because you got paid for
Speaker 1: these assholes. They were just And then how many of
Speaker 1: the songs did you play were originals? All of them? Yeah,
Speaker 1: So when we started this band, that was the thing.
Speaker 1: We're playing our own music right from the get go.
Speaker 1: That was there was too many Like growing up in
Speaker 1: a small town, a lot of the live entertainment is
Speaker 1: cover bands, right because you know, they know they'll they'll
Speaker 1: get paid and you know they can make a better
Speaker 1: living and it's more of a hobbyists kind of mentality.
Speaker 1: But it you know, we kind of I didn't want
Speaker 1: to do that. We wanted to be we want to
Speaker 1: be Okay, so you're playing, you know, playing in Kingston
Speaker 1: for bar money and what what's the next step from there? Well,
Speaker 1: then we just started getting any gig we could in
Speaker 1: like Toronto, Ottawa. Who's getting these gigs? H Yeah. My
Speaker 1: girlfriend at the time was even like calling places like
Speaker 1: you know, it's like all hands on deck, whatever it takes.
Speaker 1: Kind of men. You didn't have any agent, you didn't
Speaker 1: have a manager of them. Okay, so you start playing Toronto,
Speaker 1: you play Ottawa, any acclaim or you just go and
Speaker 1: that's it. Usually when we played, first of all, we
Speaker 1: like to have fun party, so our friends would come
Speaker 1: out and we didn't suck, so everyone had a good
Speaker 1: time and they get hammered with us, we'd get hammered them,
Speaker 1: and all of a sudden, you know, he's slowly this
Speaker 1: thing starts happening like one group of people at a time.
Speaker 1: And Okay, what came first, the community or the recording?
Speaker 1: The community? Okay, And so you're living in Canada. I'm
Speaker 1: somewhat sophisticated with Canada. There's a lot of government money,
Speaker 1: there's a lot there's a lot of people playing music.
Speaker 1: But you know, it's much easier to get ahold of
Speaker 1: the professionals, not as big a country in terms of
Speaker 1: music business. Are you trying to get a manager? Are
Speaker 1: you trying to get an agent? We literally have no
Speaker 1: fucking clue what we're doing at this point. We don't
Speaker 1: even our producer of our first album, John Angus McDonald
Speaker 1: from the Jersey as a guitar player, saw our band
Speaker 1: and asked us if you could produce a few songs
Speaker 1: for us, and I was like, sure, what does that mean?
Speaker 1: I didn't have a clue. Like so this was like
Speaker 1: a year and a half into the Glorious Okay, so
Speaker 1: he records those songs where uh, we did it in Newmarket,
Speaker 1: which is north of Toronto, about an hour. Okay, how
Speaker 1: many songs six and then how long until they were released?
Speaker 1: I don't remember we did it in the winter. I
Speaker 1: think we we released Mama in this summer in the summer, Okay,
Speaker 1: So what happened when you released it and blew up? Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's like one small little like uh like there's all
Speaker 1: these like small little radio stations in Canada, so like
Speaker 1: one small town at a time kept adding the song,
Speaker 1: and our hometown added it, and we had support from
Speaker 1: this station, Hits FM, and all of a sudden took
Speaker 1: like this huge cyclical thing and all of a sudden
Speaker 1: it's on the charts and we're driving around and it's
Speaker 1: getting played. Okay, but usually it takes a relationship to
Speaker 1: get on the radio. The two of you were doing
Speaker 1: it yourself or you had somebody involved. Well, I would
Speaker 1: I would say that we had a relationship in our producer,
Speaker 1: John Angis, who like, honestly, we would not be anywhere
Speaker 1: without him because he was already like uh, I don't
Speaker 1: want to say famous, but a very well known guitar
Speaker 1: player in a great Canadian band. And you know, I
Speaker 1: think the traction of him producing the song just for
Speaker 1: the bio audience that band was the truth I think
Speaker 1: I think that we probably you know, uh had a
Speaker 1: leg up because he produced our song. So he whatever,
Speaker 1: his company was, whatever, he was the one. He was
Speaker 1: the one responsible for getting into radio. We did have
Speaker 1: a very low level manager at the time. Um too,
Speaker 1: so rude, that's not rude, referring to garage manager. UM.
Speaker 1: So he was like, you know, we paid someone to
Speaker 1: take the song to radio, and okay, but who was that?
Speaker 1: Who was what the person that took it to radio?
Speaker 1: It was? It was RPM? It was it was an RPM?
Speaker 1: Was it? Who was it was? Kim? Was Kim? Yeah?
Speaker 1: And she did a great job. She did. Okay, so
Speaker 1: now song mom is on the radio. One thing I
Speaker 1: will say is I just gotta correct you here. He's
Speaker 1: not a low level manager. We were the first band
Speaker 1: he ever managed, So he just he's a garage man
Speaker 1: to do it. I'm not throwing stones. I'm just no, no, no,
Speaker 1: I didn't think it was to put down there. Most
Speaker 1: bands usually have somebody they start with and then they're
Speaker 1: not that world occasionally and someone grows into the role.
Speaker 1: So the record as he hit many markets, what happens
Speaker 1: after that? We play a show with a band in
Speaker 1: Canada had a number one song. Who's actually on tour
Speaker 1: with us right now ahead of the herd Um then
Speaker 1: the number one song in the country, and it did
Speaker 1: blow up like crazy in Canada, and they asked us
Speaker 1: to play a show in Toronto at the Drake Hotel
Speaker 1: and we went and played it um and after that
Speaker 1: they asked us to come on tour. And how many
Speaker 1: dates were in that tour? What about your day jobs? Quick?
Speaker 1: Quit them immediately and there was enough money going on
Speaker 1: the road. We were there was we were I don't
Speaker 1: even really know how we stayed afloat merch Mama money.
Speaker 1: We got mama money from the from the song merchandise.
Speaker 1: You always find a way, okay, if you were struggling.
Speaker 1: I didn't feel struggling. I didn't feel like I struggled
Speaker 1: at all. I was living with two guys at that
Speaker 1: time and like this like house that was completely garbage,
Speaker 1: But I never felt like I was, you know, having trouble.
Speaker 1: We had one rule and that was whoever got paid.
Speaker 1: I had to buy the weed in the booze and
Speaker 1: we would we would drink like a two four every night.
Speaker 1: So we were we were doing okay. Okay. The other
Speaker 1: thing it is Canada with a strong safety net. Are
Speaker 1: you taking any money from the government at that point? Zero? Okay,
Speaker 1: wait a minute, I was getting unemployment talking about music. No, no, no,
Speaker 1: I'm talking about unemployment. That's what I'm talking about. I
Speaker 1: was getting unemployment and anything else or that. You're getting unemployment.
Speaker 1: Everybody else in the band getting unemployment. A few members
Speaker 1: definitely were like, you're living on unemployment. Packer worked at
Speaker 1: the Township and Loyallest Township, and I mean, that's a
Speaker 1: really good job. So he had a bunch of money saved.
Speaker 1: Mamba worked with Jay and was a plumber, and he's
Speaker 1: always been really good with money. So I don't know,
Speaker 1: maybe he had some money put away. J put all
Speaker 1: of his money into the band. Okay, but in Canada,
Speaker 1: let's assume you how long were you on unemployment for? Oh,
Speaker 1: I don't know, off and on for you know, when
Speaker 1: I was working with J, I couldn't claim unemployment. So
Speaker 1: and Jay also did odd jobs in between shows and stuff,
Speaker 1: and he would hire me and younger the bandmates to
Speaker 1: work with him. Okay, so you go on the you
Speaker 1: go on the road with a band, you play the
Speaker 1: twenty dates. Where does that leave you um so I
Speaker 1: think midway through that tour, we were coming back through
Speaker 1: Toronto and yeah, so I think before the Horseshoe Tavern date, Um, Jason,
Speaker 1: someone from your office called us. It was yes, okay,
Speaker 1: James tell us the story. So we uh Ian the
Speaker 1: office brings uh ep the EP from said manager who
Speaker 1: was working with them before. Great great kid brings it.
Speaker 1: You should listen to this. So we listened to it
Speaker 1: and Mama, they say it was a hit, but it
Speaker 1: wasn't a hit at that point yet. It was um
Speaker 1: it was just starting and we were looking at it.
Speaker 1: Of Okay, is that all the band is his first? Mama,
Speaker 1: so get the EP and I think song five on
Speaker 1: the EP is called Shapeless Art and it is not
Speaker 1: structured like a pop song. Um. But the second we
Speaker 1: heard that there was a voice and a person in
Speaker 1: there that were telling these stories that we had to
Speaker 1: learn about, like I can't. It was the furthest thing
Speaker 1: from a single, but it showed depth in a way
Speaker 1: that um, I think a rock band, especially coming from Canada,
Speaker 1: has a tough time doing. So we hear that they
Speaker 1: you guys are on your way on tour. Uh stop
Speaker 1: by the stop by the office, have us sit down,
Speaker 1: and I'll never forget it. You guys walk in. Brett
Speaker 1: sits across from me, doesn't say one word. I feel
Speaker 1: like I'm at a job interview with Jay and with
Speaker 1: piercing the eyes and um, the complexity of the room
Speaker 1: was different. I can't I can't explain it, um, And
Speaker 1: I know it sounds corny, but it's it's a reality.
Speaker 1: So we have this conversation about where we go and
Speaker 1: what we're gonna do. And they had this song on
Speaker 1: the record, White Noise, which we thought would be a
Speaker 1: great single, but we thought maybe you need a little mixed,
Speaker 1: needed some work before we do it in a strategy.
Speaker 1: And we had this great conversation that was it, um.
Speaker 1: And we leave and I remember Brett comes back into
Speaker 1: use the bathroom. Uh and uh. I was like, man,
Speaker 1: how do you think that was? Like? I think ever
Speaker 1: been pretty good? He's like, so are we gonna do this?
Speaker 1: And then they get in there, they literally they get
Speaker 1: and I'm like, no, we gotta come see our band
Speaker 1: tonight because if the band is not great live, we
Speaker 1: we just won't do it. So we go that night
Speaker 1: and I remember it's a snowstorm and we show up Horseshoe.
Speaker 1: You guys were supporting head of the Herd. We show up,
Speaker 1: We go on. At this point, they are touring in
Speaker 1: a converted short bus um with blacked out windows and
Speaker 1: the inside looks like the dungiest bar you've ever been
Speaker 1: to and smells like an ashtrike. And this is on
Speaker 1: a Tuesday or Wednesday in Toronto. Uh. So we go
Speaker 1: in and I was like, well, this is I hope
Speaker 1: it's great, but you never know if it's not great.
Speaker 1: So we go in, we have drinks, their mom and
Speaker 1: dad and everybody's in and in, and I go to
Speaker 1: the front of the stage and they come on and
Speaker 1: I was like, this is going to be horrible, and
Speaker 1: I'll tell you why. I'll tell you why. So Brett
Speaker 1: as the front man, has a keyboard not facing the audience,
Speaker 1: horizontal or vertical to the to the stage singing like this,
Speaker 1: singing sideways to the crowd. It was the most bizarre
Speaker 1: stage set up I've ever seen. With the tambourine. At
Speaker 1: the time, I was like, this is gonna be horrible.
Speaker 1: So disappointed. And I think you started with ruby and
Speaker 1: the first note of the first song. I looked at
Speaker 1: the end and we're like, holy shit, and it would.
Speaker 1: It gives me the hair standing up on my rooms
Speaker 1: talking about it because you could see what it could be. UM.
Speaker 1: And I remember that night. I was like, we like,
Speaker 1: we can't let them go out on tour with like,
Speaker 1: we need to figure out a way to do this
Speaker 1: before the world sees what we see. And you know what,
Speaker 1: nine years later, I still think that the world doesn't
Speaker 1: see what we see, but we that night, I remember
Speaker 1: sitting with mom and dad of all the boys, and
Speaker 1: there was this real sense of community of people that
Speaker 1: were there that had come in to see them, and
Speaker 1: we're drinking copious amounts of tequila packers. Dad kissed me
Speaker 1: about four times. UM. But one of the things that
Speaker 1: resonated with me is they cared and we talked about
Speaker 1: the tour and the safety and taking care of their boys. UM.
Speaker 1: And I feel like that in that moment, whether we
Speaker 1: were able to sign them or not, something was going
Speaker 1: to happen, whether we were involved or not. And then
Speaker 1: they go out on tour and I get a phone call.
Speaker 1: They're driving from thunder Bay to Winnipeg on that same tour.
Speaker 1: It is and it's in and we're talking minus thirty
Speaker 1: degrees celsius weather were from medicine. Oh yeah, even worse,
Speaker 1: worse even get a call and the this party bus
Speaker 1: they're traveling on has broken down and nobody and manager
Speaker 1: doesn't call us. Nobody calls us, and I find out
Speaker 1: through mom or dad maybe I don't know. We did
Speaker 1: four two or dates. We so we were in the
Speaker 1: middle of nowhere, in the middle of nowhere, the school
Speaker 1: bus breaks down and it's not it's not going anywhere.
Speaker 1: So our other brother on the time was on the
Speaker 1: road with us doing film and hanging out and just
Speaker 1: helping out. And anyway he could him and I go
Speaker 1: two hour hitchhike rent haul because that's the only thing
Speaker 1: we could get. Drive back two hours, pick the boys up,
Speaker 1: unload all the sleeping bags and the and the mattresses
Speaker 1: from the school bus into the back of the U haul,
Speaker 1: hopping the front seat, two guys in the front seat,
Speaker 1: five guys in the back, windows, shut the door, eight
Speaker 1: hour drive, comple pitch black. And we did four tour
Speaker 1: dates like that and in the minus thirty and nobody
Speaker 1: called and nobody called for help. And when we found
Speaker 1: out about it, I was like, they're gonna win no
Speaker 1: matter what they do, because they just continue to work.
Speaker 1: So we got the plane tickets because I figured that
Speaker 1: would probably go a long way in this conversation along UM,
Speaker 1: and we flew them in and got took care of
Speaker 1: all the travel pieces. Thunderah yeah, and then we started
Speaker 1: with we launched. We stopped everything that was in motion
Speaker 1: in terms of what the plan was going to be,
Speaker 1: and pushed pause and remixed the next single, brought it
Speaker 1: all out and that January it became the first number
Speaker 1: one because I don't think momb it was number two
Speaker 1: UM and never stop often. But that sentiment of the
Speaker 1: work ethic and UM not taking anything for granted and
Speaker 1: not complaining UM without a shadow with doubt is the
Speaker 1: driving force between behind where the band is today. Okay,
Speaker 1: when you find the band, what are you literally doing, Jason?
Speaker 1: I have well Ian who runs the label with me
Speaker 1: partners from the beginning by default producer to managing his band,
Speaker 1: started a label, had some success, didn't plan, had to
Speaker 1: reimagine what that is, but had been managing this Canadian
Speaker 1: hip hop act that the year we signed, the Glorious
Speaker 1: Suns went on to sell a million singles in Canada
Speaker 1: at classified White hip hop act who broke had his
Speaker 1: breakout at thirty eight years old. Put that in perspective, unbelievable.
Speaker 1: One of the from a very small town still to
Speaker 1: this day lives in a town of six hundred on
Speaker 1: east coast of Canada. So that gave us at least
Speaker 1: something to talk about. And I've learned so much um
Speaker 1: through that process. And I love rock and roll. My
Speaker 1: first record was Hot Rocks. So when you hear something
Speaker 1: that speaks to you as a fan and then you
Speaker 1: can actually apply the skill set that you don't even
Speaker 1: realize is the skill set, it's like arts and craft
Speaker 1: day every day, and you just you continue. So we
Speaker 1: were doing that. We really didn't have any money when
Speaker 1: we signed the band, and we probably beg board and
Speaker 1: steal to get the radio campaign up and the remix
Speaker 1: and make a video. And I think the I think
Speaker 1: the bar tab and the damages from that video was
Speaker 1: a substantial enough line item that almost choked on my
Speaker 1: coffee when I got it. That was a fun video, yeah,
Speaker 1: but we set it in motion and so all those
Speaker 1: pieces leading up to that day, I really prepared us
Speaker 1: um too. When we found somebody that worked as hard
Speaker 1: as as we did. Okay. So how old were you
Speaker 1: at that point, thirty four and you've been in the
Speaker 1: music business. I similar. I didn't even know this story,
Speaker 1: but you were, but very similar. I dropped out of
Speaker 1: university making records strout high school for beer money. Um
Speaker 1: in Canada, there's no there wasn't an infrastructure where you
Speaker 1: there was a direct path to working in the music business.
Speaker 1: So I'd record my band in high school so you
Speaker 1: had your own Yeah, horrible, But we would press cassettes
Speaker 1: and I would pay the guy in the cafeteria to
Speaker 1: play it. Then I'd go sell the cassettes. I didn't
Speaker 1: think it was a business, and it was just what
Speaker 1: we loved and we would play on the weekends. We
Speaker 1: do all that sort of stuff and come into university
Speaker 1: and of high school it's like, okay, time to grow up.
Speaker 1: You go to university because that's what everybody else does.
Speaker 1: Go to univer the city and kept making records for
Speaker 1: other people and realizing not the guy who should be
Speaker 1: in the band, what are you laughing at? It must
Speaker 1: have been hard, but so but I have the same
Speaker 1: moment where I'm three years in the university, working at
Speaker 1: a hospital and kidney dialysis think thinking I'm preparing for
Speaker 1: MCATs and dropped out of school and I came home
Speaker 1: and told my parents I think my mom. It was
Speaker 1: probably like almost three months of silence, and the silence
Speaker 1: got broken. My wife today was dancing with my father
Speaker 1: at a wedding. He said, I don't care what he does.
Speaker 1: If he's going to dig a ditch, dig it better
Speaker 1: to the guy to the right and the guy to
Speaker 1: the left. And it was this really empowering thing to
Speaker 1: break free of these chains that really are self imposed,
Speaker 1: because as a parent you don't really have those. But
Speaker 1: they're like, what does the music business mean? I'm like,
Speaker 1: I have no idea, and they're like, where are you
Speaker 1: going to go? I have no idea? And so I
Speaker 1: got a bartending job and going into the Long Weekend,
Speaker 1: I had put an application into a renowned studio outside
Speaker 1: of Toronto called Metalworks, right, Gili More, Yeah, So and
Speaker 1: I was like, well, if I can get in there,
Speaker 1: I will work harder than anybody else. And so I
Speaker 1: put an application. They called me on Thursday, going to
Speaker 1: the Long weekend and they're like, we have an intern
Speaker 1: that's not showing up this weekend. Long weekends are a
Speaker 1: big thing in Canada. Everybody wants to go. Would you
Speaker 1: like to come in or not? We can't tell you
Speaker 1: what you're gonna work on. Like absolutely going to my restaurant.
Speaker 1: I'm there maybe a month. Like if you don't let
Speaker 1: me do this, I gotta quit. He has like, fine,
Speaker 1: go and do it. First day, first session, rush vapor trails.
Speaker 1: Really and you're doing what you're get t not even
Speaker 1: I don't even know how to wind a cable at
Speaker 1: that point. And some there as an assistant to an
Speaker 1: assistant to an assistant, cleaning bathrooms and doing all that
Speaker 1: sort of stuff. But being that close to magic, it's intoxicating.
Speaker 1: And so I would do forty to fifty hours a
Speaker 1: week there, close the bar, go back and forth, make
Speaker 1: no money, but you're in the action. You're where it's created.
Speaker 1: I got to watch um Eddie Kramer do Festival Express.
Speaker 1: I got to just got to be in Chicago. I
Speaker 1: didn't know what I was doing, but the longer I
Speaker 1: was there, I realized I didn't want to be an engineer.
Speaker 1: Um that's to me, that felt like accounting work. I
Speaker 1: guess it's not where the magic lies. In my opinion. Um,
Speaker 1: So stay there for two years outgrew that um in
Speaker 1: that window. Met Ian, through his girlfriend at the time,
Speaker 1: worked at the restaurant with us, and he was in
Speaker 1: a double time punk rock band that I thought was amazing.
Speaker 1: And this is the era of like fat Records, and
Speaker 1: I knew nothing about punk rock like zero, but I
Speaker 1: was like, holy shit, they're touring. This is great, Like
Speaker 1: I need to sign this ban Um. I go to rehearsal.
Speaker 1: They the only one that gave me time, Whizzy and
Speaker 1: everybody else didn't trust me. So we go and I
Speaker 1: was like, Okay, well are going to do europ Um.
Speaker 1: I will find the money to do it. And the
Speaker 1: first conversation was, well, what do you think about slowing
Speaker 1: down the drums for a double time punk rock band?
Speaker 1: It did not help my cause in trying to influence
Speaker 1: anything and making that record, so I ultimately and ended
Speaker 1: up engineering that record with the band, and I remember
Speaker 1: got a lawyer signed a management deal with them on Thursday,
Speaker 1: and I was in a twelve passenger van traveling East
Speaker 1: coast Canada in the dead of winter with these punk
Speaker 1: rock kids playing basement shows and it was eye opening
Speaker 1: and it was exciting, and at the time I felt
Speaker 1: like I had won the lottery and every read and
Speaker 1: there was zero money, but I mean zero, like it
Speaker 1: was a very expensive hobby. But you're in the action,
Speaker 1: and so you go and you do that and come
Speaker 1: back and Ian still partner to this day, and Yng
Speaker 1: to the Yang. We couldn't get a record deal, and
Speaker 1: I think this is where the management thing really solidified.
Speaker 1: For better for worse. I'm a very strong advocate for
Speaker 1: people I believe in, and I am willing to self
Speaker 1: sacrifice in the pursuit of that, for better or for worse.
Speaker 1: It doesn't always work in my favor, but if that's
Speaker 1: all that's left behind him, happy about that. And so
Speaker 1: we're out shopping this band that I saw this potential
Speaker 1: on that I loved that the record deals were bullshit
Speaker 1: and no money, and I knew radio wasn't gonna play
Speaker 1: this band, and I knew the only way they're going
Speaker 1: to sell records is getting on tour and playing these places,
Speaker 1: and and so Ian and I decided that we were
Speaker 1: both going to put in three thousand dollars and start
Speaker 1: Black Box, which is the record they will be signed
Speaker 1: the guys too, And we created a culture with every
Speaker 1: band we signed that released Number one, your job is
Speaker 1: to recoup so we can make another record, and that
Speaker 1: was the culture with every band that we signed, So
Speaker 1: there was a moral obligation taking care of your own
Speaker 1: ship to make sure the next artist that came up
Speaker 1: could have this thing. So that's what started that whole process.
Speaker 1: But in that moment, the way Brett was talking about
Speaker 1: his brother and when people were chirping his brother's band,
Speaker 1: I think at the core of all of this is
Speaker 1: that advocacy for things that you love that the world
Speaker 1: doesn't necessarily see through your lens. That is so clear
Speaker 1: to you, and I think that was the birth of
Speaker 1: what you and I do as management. Um. I can't
Speaker 1: imagine the ship Jason took for managing our band, and
Speaker 1: we started out okay, so you manage it. But they
Speaker 1: already have the track mom I was blowing up. You
Speaker 1: remix the other one that's blowing up? And is it
Speaker 1: a continuous no? No? Yeah, absolutely hard to remember those details.
Speaker 1: I can totally do because I wear those scars. Um.
Speaker 1: I think so the thing with Mama Mama at Arms
Speaker 1: Reach feels very one dimensional, and you're coming from a
Speaker 1: city that people say there's something in the water, whether
Speaker 1: it's headstones, whether it's the hip, there's something there, um,
Speaker 1: And you're trying to carve your own path on the
Speaker 1: merit of this band, this songwriter, specifically the dynamic of
Speaker 1: these two gentlemen, but more importantly the true art. It's
Speaker 1: like taking coal and grinding it down. There's a diamond there,
Speaker 1: and I feel like I'm the only one who could
Speaker 1: see it in a way that nobody else could. So
Speaker 1: now you have to go convince people to see it
Speaker 1: the way you see it before it's actually there for everybody. Um.
Speaker 1: And when I say every moment was a fight or
Speaker 1: uncool band, nothing's going to happen. Never gonna break it radio,
Speaker 1: never gonna break it, alternative radio, never gonna sell a ticket.
Speaker 1: Literally every day that was And I got so sick
Speaker 1: and tired of that too. Yeah, of course, like I
Speaker 1: felt like we were up against people's perceptions constantly, and
Speaker 1: I didn't think they knew who we were. Absolutely, And
Speaker 1: so we we make this video for and it was
Speaker 1: more money we'd ever spent on a video, which was
Speaker 1: how much that's a lot of money. How much of
Speaker 1: that money is from the government. That one ten thousand
Speaker 1: was from the goverment where you get the other two
Speaker 1: you'd saved it from. I'm telling you the yeah, the
Speaker 1: Diceinus of that period, But I figured he never told
Speaker 1: us it was nice either that time, No, nor my wife.
Speaker 1: But I gotta ask, was your wife the same person
Speaker 1: your father had the conversation? Yes, yeah, she stood by
Speaker 1: it still to this day. UM. Key to the success
Speaker 1: to be all the way honest. So we make this
Speaker 1: video and I'm like, I want I want the band
Speaker 1: to try. I want the world to see the band
Speaker 1: how we see the band, because it will help me
Speaker 1: tell the story that I think we need to tell.
Speaker 1: And I think we did it um. But at that time,
Speaker 1: so we were the label. We weren't the manager at
Speaker 1: that time. So I still have the garage, yes, but
Speaker 1: very much advocating as if we are the manager. Um yeah.
Speaker 1: And so but once I realized that it was going
Speaker 1: to take more than what was happening around it, and
Speaker 1: if I was going to die on this sort, I
Speaker 1: I thought it was important to be the one driving
Speaker 1: it um. And so in that period you start to
Speaker 1: see these things that you're telling people and then it's
Speaker 1: not being echoed or reflected in the same way, and
Speaker 1: that confusion when you're trying to change people's perception, it's
Speaker 1: very difficult to the over all goal. And I think
Speaker 1: we we had a conversation about where we were pushing,
Speaker 1: how we wanted to push, what was important UM and
Speaker 1: the band made a decision that we should probably step
Speaker 1: in and help them in a in a deeper level
Speaker 1: and to be all the way on us. Nothing changed
Speaker 1: in terms of how we worked with the band as
Speaker 1: a record label at that point. Nothing changed. Okay, but
Speaker 1: obviously got rid of the garage manager. What did he say? Well,
Speaker 1: there was there's some details that we can't really but
Speaker 1: you know what it was. It was okay, did he
Speaker 1: get paid when he left? Well, well that that you
Speaker 1: go down that No, it was it was pretty quiet. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it wasn't a bad thing. And to be honest, stuff, Yeah,
Speaker 1: he's doing great stuff. The band was. He'll tell you
Speaker 1: to this day that the it just was moving too fast.
Speaker 1: And you know, we invited him to come be a
Speaker 1: part of our shop to try to mentor and because
Speaker 1: I know how loyal these guys are to a flaw
Speaker 1: and I didn't want to be the guy to put
Speaker 1: a wedge, but that didn't work out. And if I
Speaker 1: was only going to do one thing in my entire career,
Speaker 1: was going to break this band like there was. It
Speaker 1: was so clear to me. And so when you're willing
Speaker 1: to do that, UM, those decisions may seem difficult to
Speaker 1: everybody else, but they're very easy two at least to
Speaker 1: me in that time. So we do that, you know,
Speaker 1: take over the whole operation, piece it together, huh, start
Speaker 1: touring with more strategy. We we go from uh that
Speaker 1: into what will be our first number one with the union.
Speaker 1: UM No sorry, so so EP back it up, so
Speaker 1: EP two. Now we got to make an album, and
Speaker 1: so we have this EP and we've got the song
Speaker 1: White Noise peeking at number two, and we're making a record,
Speaker 1: UM for a band. And it's interesting when Brett joined
Speaker 1: his brother's band and during the making of that record, UM,
Speaker 1: it was still a jump all of whose band it
Speaker 1: was UM and and not just between the two of
Speaker 1: them with the other guitar player, where everybody is really polite, passive,
Speaker 1: aggressive in this band at times UM. And so it's yeah,
Speaker 1: and now we just get ready to it. But it's
Speaker 1: it's all these things where everyone's not trying to step
Speaker 1: on anybody's toast. And so we go into this church,
Speaker 1: we make this record with John Angus and finish that record.
Speaker 1: First single comes out, the band goes out for sixty
Speaker 1: shows to support tours, one with Airborne, one with the
Speaker 1: trus that we I mean it probably cost us sixty Yeah,
Speaker 1: So we went out and we did that, and we
Speaker 1: come back and the first tour we do on our
Speaker 1: headline in Canada, coming out of that book by Ian
Speaker 1: director Venue no promoter. We sell it out. Okay, you
Speaker 1: the records. Now, are you making any money on the record? No,
Speaker 1: because they're not making money, So how do we fund
Speaker 1: the touring? So there is no money, but you can
Speaker 1: start to see real people connecting to something that speaks
Speaker 1: to them the way the way it spoke to me
Speaker 1: in a way that it was very much underground, even
Speaker 1: though radio was playing it because rock radio historically does
Speaker 1: not translate to record sales, certainly not in the modern era. No. So,
Speaker 1: but we were seeing the growth and people were passionate
Speaker 1: and they felt like they would get something every night
Speaker 1: that maybe the last time. And it was very reckless
Speaker 1: and not always the greatest, but always the most honest,
Speaker 1: and so we would go at and do that, and
Speaker 1: so we sell it this tour Toronto, we sell nine
Speaker 1: tickets in advance at the Opera House. Remember no promoter.
Speaker 1: Ian and I paid for the promotion of that tour,
Speaker 1: like market, thousand dollars market. He did the whole routing,
Speaker 1: he did the advancing, we did the merch. There was
Speaker 1: literally fully independent. I'm like, holy shit, we that felt
Speaker 1: like the first real validation. Um you guys, probably I
Speaker 1: felt I felt validated every night, you know. Yeah, but
Speaker 1: you're a twenty one year old kid. Um yeah, every rocket.
Speaker 1: It's interesting to hear it from another perspective because, okay,
Speaker 1: so you promote your own towards successful Yeah them? What uh? Them?
Speaker 1: What is the whole kind? I start getting a reputation
Speaker 1: of being the guy. Have you met Jason, Oh you haven't.
Speaker 1: He'll tell you Glad sounds gonna be the biggest band
Speaker 1: in the world at some point. He's delusional too. Yeah,
Speaker 1: literally that that is the context around everything. And everybody
Speaker 1: told me your bands not cool, they'll never break it.
Speaker 1: Alternative and it would just it would make me so
Speaker 1: angry that it became the north star of everything, which
Speaker 1: which upsets me because I honestly I don't like what
Speaker 1: is alternative music. I mean the whole thing. It's like,
Speaker 1: we're a rock and roll band that plays our own instruments.
Speaker 1: But I don't think you can kind of pigeonhole us
Speaker 1: into anything. We've We've always had an extremely eclectic catalog. Okay,
Speaker 1: let's let's kind of go fast and then get to
Speaker 1: that point. So now you're having success, At what point
Speaker 1: do you woke up with Nick so quick? So we
Speaker 1: go from that record too. I know, if we make
Speaker 1: the Union two point oh, the band is never bigger
Speaker 1: than where we didn't want to do that anyways. Um
Speaker 1: So Brett and the guys trying to make a record
Speaker 1: two or three times, and I had this. I don't
Speaker 1: know if I've told them so. This is not like
Speaker 1: can make them angry or happy. I figured there's no
Speaker 1: ego in finding the right decision. And so if they
Speaker 1: are going to go out and try to make this
Speaker 1: record on their own, they're either going to deliver something
Speaker 1: that is stunning or they are going to be so
Speaker 1: frustrated in their pursuit that they're going to throw up
Speaker 1: the white flag. Can say, okay, so now what do
Speaker 1: you want to do? And I think we did that
Speaker 1: over but six months of them banging their head against
Speaker 1: the wall three tries, three tries. It was in l
Speaker 1: a Um meeting with a new gentleman at BMG, Jamie
Speaker 1: Neely on the publishing side, and he's like, I got this.
Speaker 1: I'm like, I'm trying to make this record for this band,
Speaker 1: Glory's Sunds. I can't. I can. I need to hear.
Speaker 1: I can explain it to you, but I haven't heard
Speaker 1: what I need to hear. So he's like, let me
Speaker 1: play this thing from this. He's like, I got this
Speaker 1: Danish producer, songwriter and a couple of guys that and
Speaker 1: he played me one song and I was like, we're
Speaker 1: making that. They're making the record, and I called you
Speaker 1: in and I'm like, I found it. Now. This is
Speaker 1: a band that the way they historically made a record
Speaker 1: to how that record is very different. And so I
Speaker 1: seeded the demo to them individually, Hey what do you
Speaker 1: think of this? Like do you like the vibe of this?
Speaker 1: And everybody came back, Oh, this is fucking great. Oh yeah,
Speaker 1: I would love to work with them, not knowing what
Speaker 1: that meant, but I was just like one, like, so
Speaker 1: come back three months later and I was like guys
Speaker 1: go to l A, sit with this team, give me
Speaker 1: a week, see what comes. Um. We go out first
Speaker 1: night in l A with the producers. The band drinks
Speaker 1: probably four pictures of Margarita's j Emmons and jam and
Speaker 1: Fashion looks across at the producer and says, so, what's
Speaker 1: the fucking plan? What are we here for? I remember,
Speaker 1: and I'm like, oh man, these guys like all that
Speaker 1: kind of just like Frederick tom Ryan, I'm kind of
Speaker 1: like look like deer in the headlights. It was everybody. Yeah,
Speaker 1: everybody was so frustrated. But we tried. Don't forget. We
Speaker 1: tried to make a record three times before we got here,
Speaker 1: So like, did you did you know that it wasn't
Speaker 1: working or only Jason told you? We all know it
Speaker 1: wasn't working because it would take us, like, you know,
Speaker 1: five days to do two songs, and and we'd come
Speaker 1: out of it and there's just isn't something like we
Speaker 1: want to take a step, like that's what we want
Speaker 1: to do. We want to challenge ourselves creatively, change change
Speaker 1: the game. But every time we went in, we we
Speaker 1: kind of came out with the same. Yeah, so we
Speaker 1: go to l A. We knew what we wanted, but
Speaker 1: we didn't know what it looked like. And you could
Speaker 1: see that, so I knew they wouldn't. I knew the
Speaker 1: one thing with Brett when it comes to that sort
Speaker 1: of stuff, He's unwilling to compromise, compromise the pursuit of
Speaker 1: what's great, and so we do that. That night we
Speaker 1: end up at the Rainbow Room, and I knew we
Speaker 1: were going to be okay when Brett said to the producer,
Speaker 1: just I'm not here to tell you what I want
Speaker 1: to do. You just I'll give you a week and
Speaker 1: you you paint the picture with me on what we
Speaker 1: need to do. We were there to get help, but
Speaker 1: we needed help more than any at any point in
Speaker 1: our career. We needed help at that moment, and we
Speaker 1: made We made that record, which was the last record,
Speaker 1: which getting to how we met Neck Days fifteen days
Speaker 1: and in the Crazy Party. You should have seen how
Speaker 1: confused we were going in there, though, I honest I
Speaker 1: didn't know if I'd ever be a musician again. And
Speaker 1: to come out after fifteen days and have ten songs
Speaker 1: actually that you loved, it was like the greatest feeling
Speaker 1: of all time, and and it was loaded with hits
Speaker 1: and I knew, I swear to God and I knew,
Speaker 1: and I knew in that moment that this I was
Speaker 1: going to be able to convince people to support to
Speaker 1: get that number one at alternative Radio. And we got
Speaker 1: it on the first single of that record. So fast
Speaker 1: forward relationships with BMG, Ian and I come in. We
Speaker 1: operate BMG as the Canadian operation for a couple of years.
Speaker 1: Part of that, dan Gil dan Cohen who ran Vagrant,
Speaker 1: came up to meet us in the office and we
Speaker 1: played them Josie off of the record and like we
Speaker 1: should sign this band. I was like, Wow, that was easy.
Speaker 1: This is wonderful. Um so, And in that intern dan
Speaker 1: Gil sends it to Nick Attaway. I have no idea
Speaker 1: who Nick Ataway is. From that day till almost still today,
Speaker 1: I get a Nick out of way call at eight
Speaker 1: o'clock in the morning. I don't know this guy, no
Speaker 1: deal memo, no nothing. He's called me. He's like, we're
Speaker 1: gonna do the deal, right you can. I'm like, I
Speaker 1: don't even have ever even talked to a lawyer. He's like,
Speaker 1: he's like, I played it for this person. I played
Speaker 1: it for this person. Holy ship, this is the greatest record.
Speaker 1: I called Dan, I'm like, who's Nick? Like, there was
Speaker 1: no formal introduction. That was how I met Nick Nick Attaway,
Speaker 1: and he's like, this is it. This is gonna be amazing.
Speaker 1: Holy sh it, I can't believe you deliver this is
Speaker 1: this is unbelievable. I love this band, Let's do it.
Speaker 1: So it's like, well, we're gonna do it then, and
Speaker 1: the deal became secondary because at that point I couldn't
Speaker 1: pull out of it would have been really bad. But
Speaker 1: that exciting, that excitement is great, and that I've learned
Speaker 1: is more valuable than anything else. Um, And so we
Speaker 1: go with Everything's already goes to number one in Canada
Speaker 1: and Nick goes to goes to it with alternative Radio,
Speaker 1: and we say, the band's ability to say yes is
Speaker 1: why we're here today. They said yes to everything. We
Speaker 1: never ever looked at a budget, we never looked at
Speaker 1: the guarantee, we never it was yes, and we were
Speaker 1: all collectively digging ourselves into this enormous hole but didn't
Speaker 1: give a ship. And so Nix's out there and he's
Speaker 1: getting this thing and getting this thing, and we die
Speaker 1: on the vine. Five months into Everything's all right. The
Speaker 1: first single on our BMG release, Dead Done, Budgets Gone.
Speaker 1: But we were like that's what I mean, the very
Speaker 1: first treating us who I have to tell the story
Speaker 1: when I met Nick, So I don't know where we were,
Speaker 1: and we were and this guy comes on the bus
Speaker 1: and like literally like it's like a freaking bull in
Speaker 1: a china shop, just like you might as well have
Speaker 1: kicked the door open. And he's coming in. He's like, yeah,
Speaker 1: like this that was great, but you should have played
Speaker 1: more new stuff. And then he and then he starts
Speaker 1: like talking and he's like for like three hours at night,
Speaker 1: I heard like every conspiracy theory on the map, like
Speaker 1: everything everything that Nick is. He was in that first
Speaker 1: three hours of the medium. Okay, Nick, you're a story.
Speaker 1: You're from where uh born and raised in Philadelphia. Okay,
Speaker 1: how do you how do you ultimately get to b MG.
Speaker 1: I was going to University of Pennsylvania. I wanted to
Speaker 1: be in the music industry. I was bartender, went to Penny.
Speaker 1: I was bartender at three rock clubs, paying my way
Speaker 1: through school. I was interning at the radio station UH,
Speaker 1: intern for Epic Records, and interned for m c A
Speaker 1: UH and then I got UM and I really wanted
Speaker 1: to get the music business because I in Philadelphia that
Speaker 1: there was no real radio station playing new music, and
Speaker 1: w MMR was the only station, but it was classic rock.
Speaker 1: So I would see all these amazing bands that I
Speaker 1: never heard of play in front of very small crowds
Speaker 1: and just become huge. And I wanted to be part
Speaker 1: of that. And this is how old are you and
Speaker 1: what you're it was. I was twenty one, and it
Speaker 1: was nineteen ninety one, and I graduated at the age
Speaker 1: of twenty six and ninety six. I was on the
Speaker 1: six year college plan because I wasn't smart enough to
Speaker 1: go to Penn. I kind of conned my way in
Speaker 1: and uh, so it took me a while and uh
Speaker 1: and then I went to uh got my first job
Speaker 1: in l A doing college promotion at m c A,
Speaker 1: the National Triple A and West Coast Rock Alternative. And
Speaker 1: I went to Arista. UH and then I went to
Speaker 1: go work for Corner CAPH had Red Light Management to
Speaker 1: head up promotion there in their early days and UM
Speaker 1: and then went to Vagrant and then BMG bought Vagrant
Speaker 1: and became the head of promotion there and now I
Speaker 1: oversee the rock Alternative and Triple A. So that's how
Speaker 1: I got to where I am on on this. And
Speaker 1: you know, when I first heard the music, my boss said,
Speaker 1: you should hear this Glorious Son's it's really good. And Dan,
Speaker 1: my boss is very critical. He doesn't say things are
Speaker 1: very good very often. So I'm like, holy ship. And
Speaker 1: then I heard it and I'm like, oh my god,
Speaker 1: every song is great. And to this day I'll tell everyone.
Speaker 1: You know, they'll be like, what songs should I hear?
Speaker 1: What's good? And I'm just like, pick any song. They're
Speaker 1: all great. There's not one bad song, and any of
Speaker 1: their stuff we took everything is all right because we're
Speaker 1: we were thinking alternative, alternative, alternative, and we had you know,
Speaker 1: we got like a bunch of really good stations. But
Speaker 1: you know, it was over a six month period and
Speaker 1: and I think we got into the thirties, but you know,
Speaker 1: it didn't take off. Meanwhile, I was going to a
Speaker 1: lot of their shows. The first shows that I went
Speaker 1: to they were opening up for Greata Van Fleet. The
Speaker 1: one thing I noticed was is that when they went on,
Speaker 1: if you just walked into the club and saw them
Speaker 1: on stage, you would have thought they were the headliner.
Speaker 1: Everyone that was there was there to see Greta, and
Speaker 1: when they saw the Glorious Sons, they freaked out and I,
Speaker 1: you know, and uh, And I was like, that's another
Speaker 1: sign because having bar attended in rock clubs for six years,
Speaker 1: you see how most opening bands get treated, you know,
Speaker 1: by the audience of the headliner, which is never usually
Speaker 1: that good. And I also noticed that the song sought
Speaker 1: off shotgun s O s. It was getting this like
Speaker 1: major reaction and people were able to sing along to
Speaker 1: that song even if they had never heard it before,
Speaker 1: and it was really connecting it. And then we were
Speaker 1: having this talk about it being a radio single and
Speaker 1: the biggest problem in America is you know, lyrics. You
Speaker 1: got one lyric that could offend one person out of
Speaker 1: a thousand, It could just fuck you at radio. And
Speaker 1: I said, you know, guys, you know we're a land
Speaker 1: of hypocrisy and school shootings and all this stuff, and
Speaker 1: even though the song doesn't advocate violence in any way,
Speaker 1: there could be issues. But then we realized that it
Speaker 1: was so good, so good of a song, that we
Speaker 1: should take that chance. And then right when we were
Speaker 1: thinking going to go for it, the Parkland shooting happened,
Speaker 1: and I said, we got we gotta put the brakes
Speaker 1: on this, and just you know, waited out because the
Speaker 1: one thing Americans do is they forget very quickly. So
Speaker 1: it's not off the table forever, it's just off the
Speaker 1: table until you was in a real important part of this.
Speaker 1: He's not giving himself enough credit. He the start of
Speaker 1: s OS at radio um, there was no budget left,
Speaker 1: and he went on his own to find one champion
Speaker 1: at a time to bring back to the table, to
Speaker 1: go to the label to open up budget. At this point,
Speaker 1: we are nine months removed from the record coming out,
Speaker 1: eight months probably in that window, no mudget, No nobody's
Speaker 1: reinvesting in a record nine months, like it's just not happening.
Speaker 1: And while this story, well this is happening. He's going
Speaker 1: out and champion and on the back of the band
Speaker 1: playing all those radio shows, not getting the single, but
Speaker 1: all the promoters and all the show for like this
Speaker 1: is a real fucking rock and roll band. So they
Speaker 1: bought into the band even though the song didn't get there.
Speaker 1: So we built up this good will. And Nick, I'm
Speaker 1: telling you, if he did not become proactive, and I
Speaker 1: don't know if it was from me screaming at him
Speaker 1: or or our collective love of the band. Um, he
Speaker 1: went out and one at a time converted top down
Speaker 1: radio folks on on this band without asking for a
Speaker 1: dollar and going to the label to get money. And
Speaker 1: because I think that's a super important part of this. Well,
Speaker 1: the thing is is that you know, you work at
Speaker 1: a record label and you see where a lot of
Speaker 1: money gets spent, and when you see I think it's
Speaker 1: really important that you invest in potential. It's great when
Speaker 1: you sign a big band that has a big history. Um,
Speaker 1: they may continue to have great success, but it's really
Speaker 1: important to invest in potential and that and that's what
Speaker 1: these guys have and they are one of my top
Speaker 1: five favorite bands of all time, my favorite band that
Speaker 1: I've ever worked in my career doing radio emotions since
Speaker 1: ninety six, and I've worked with a lot of great bands,
Speaker 1: and you know, with a lot of great music, and
Speaker 1: you know, and the in the record, you know, I
Speaker 1: wanted to make sure I said, all right, we're gonna
Speaker 1: take s OS to rock radio because you know, alternative
Speaker 1: radio is having an identity crisis. An alternative radio more
Speaker 1: and more cares more about stream totals than music, and
Speaker 1: they're also thinking about crossing over to pop. Alternative radio
Speaker 1: used to be strictly about you know, they were like
Speaker 1: like the the goth kids in school, and the god
Speaker 1: kids would be god kids. But now a lot of
Speaker 1: alternative programmers want that god kid to be like a cheerleader,
Speaker 1: you know, or a football player, and they can't accept
Speaker 1: the fact that they are who they are. So alternative
Speaker 1: radio is having this a danti crisis. They all they
Speaker 1: wanted to streams. I said, at least rock radio. A
Speaker 1: lot of those guys, if they hear a hit, they'll there,
Speaker 1: They'll still say, I'm going to play that. And so
Speaker 1: we got and I said, but I'm not gonna start
Speaker 1: with super small stations. I'm not gonna be doing promotions
Speaker 1: turn tricks. I want to get real stations and to
Speaker 1: lead the way top down on a baby band. And
Speaker 1: we did that, and you know, we were on We
Speaker 1: were on the charts for like forty some weeks by
Speaker 1: the by the time we got to January, the first
Speaker 1: week of January of two thousand nineteen, we went number one.
Speaker 1: After like sixteen sixteen weeks removed, yeah, sixteen months removed
Speaker 1: from the record coming over. Yeah, and it was like
Speaker 1: we were on the chart for like, I don't know,
Speaker 1: like six months, and then we go into January at
Speaker 1: number one, and then I found out that we were
Speaker 1: the most played song at Active Rock for two thousand
Speaker 1: nineteen on you know, via media base. It was the
Speaker 1: number one rock record of two thousand nineteen, which was amazing,
Speaker 1: you know for an unsigned band, and and that you know,
Speaker 1: that really helped him and the airplay really translated into
Speaker 1: streams and we were able to see that go up
Speaker 1: and up and up. Then we try to cross over
Speaker 1: alternative and we were picking up a lot of stations.
Speaker 1: Now we were top thirty at Alternative for twenty seven weeks,
Speaker 1: which was great, and we peaked at twenty three, but
Speaker 1: and it was higher than Great Event Fleet or you know,
Speaker 1: Shine Down or Bad Flour, all these rock bands trying
Speaker 1: to cross over. And it was over a six month period,
Speaker 1: and we did get K Rock to add the record,
Speaker 1: uh and KQUX in Chicago. But right around that point,
Speaker 1: the station's that Alternative that had played at a thousand
Speaker 1: times were like it was a huge hit for us.
Speaker 1: It was great, but we got it. We're done. And
Speaker 1: then as soon as you lose your bullet, people are like, oh,
Speaker 1: you guess it's done. You know, Okay, let's go to today.
Speaker 1: So where is the band from your perspective today, Nick, Well,
Speaker 1: you know, the one thing that I always say is
Speaker 1: that this is a career band. And I always tell
Speaker 1: you know bands. I said, look, you know, having that
Speaker 1: hit single, that hit record at radio, you know, that's
Speaker 1: winning the lottery. That's a shot in the arm, that's
Speaker 1: the nitrous in in the gas tank. You know. But
Speaker 1: at the end of the day, every spin, every added
Speaker 1: or radio station should be looked upon as like, oh god,
Speaker 1: you know, it's not about getting that hit. It's about
Speaker 1: moving the ball forward. It's about being able to sell
Speaker 1: those extra tickets. It's about turning on an extra fan.
Speaker 1: You know. This is a band that you know, when
Speaker 1: you see one hit Wonders, you know, the the label
Speaker 1: like owns that band, you know, because they've got nothing else.
Speaker 1: You know, this is a band that has, unlike most
Speaker 1: Canadian bands, have put in the blood, sweat and tears
Speaker 1: to break in the US. People say rock bands from
Speaker 1: Canada can't break here. Well, that's because if they're huge
Speaker 1: in Canada, a lot of times they don't want to
Speaker 1: spend all that money and time, you know, starting over
Speaker 1: from scratch, but these guys do. And they're the biggest
Speaker 1: rock band in Canada, playing huge arenas, what fifteen thousand
Speaker 1: in Toronto. But that they will always They'll be on
Speaker 1: the road, they will always have an audience. It will
Speaker 1: keep growing. Their fans are insane, uh in such a
Speaker 1: great way u um and um. And they really truly
Speaker 1: connect emotionally, you know. And that's the thing you mostly,
Speaker 1: you know, a hit is a big hook, but it
Speaker 1: has to emotionally connect and we see that connection on
Speaker 1: the live level. And I think, you know, we're at
Speaker 1: the band's first We put up our first arena show
Speaker 1: in Toronto a year and a half ago, and the
Speaker 1: whispers were they are fucking crazy. No, like I mean
Speaker 1: like this isn't like we were getting laughed at all
Speaker 1: like this. You don't go from doing a couple of
Speaker 1: club dates at the beginning of the record cycled to this.
Speaker 1: At the end of the record cycle. We actually got
Speaker 1: told I wanted this but another band by a member
Speaker 1: of another band. Um. We were talking about the arena
Speaker 1: show and he said, you skipped a step, um, And
Speaker 1: so we we go out and remember no press at
Speaker 1: this point. Um, we are not a darling of anybody.
Speaker 1: And we go out and we do the show and
Speaker 1: it's it's magical. And the manager, the last manager of
Speaker 1: the hip guy from Kingston, Bernie Breen, was there. So
Speaker 1: Bernie takes Ian and I side side stage at that show.
Speaker 1: And the one thing about that show that validated everything
Speaker 1: we've believed into this day is from song one to
Speaker 1: song twenty eight or whatever we played that night, people
Speaker 1: sang every word. I don't mean the radio records, I
Speaker 1: mean songs that we've never released all the way through.
Speaker 1: And Bernie took En and I side and put his
Speaker 1: out around us and he's like, just stop for a second.
Speaker 1: It's like I've seen this once before, and he's just like,
Speaker 1: be present, enjoy. But as much as that was a victory,
Speaker 1: one of the reviews of that night was the first
Speaker 1: half of the write up was I didn't want to
Speaker 1: be here and I didn't believe that they could. Like
Speaker 1: that was the narrative. What every review we get is
Speaker 1: I don't want them to do well. Yeah that was
Speaker 1: and we had sold out this arena. It pisces me
Speaker 1: on so fucking much and if it's not that, it's
Speaker 1: like they catch us on our worst show of all
Speaker 1: time and they just slander the ship out of Okay,
Speaker 1: let's let's forget the reviews from sec read the reviews,
Speaker 1: because that's a whole rabbit hole. I'd rather not go
Speaker 1: down right this very second. Many people will say rock
Speaker 1: is dead. If you look at the Spotify top fifty,
Speaker 1: there's not one rock track. So what is the future
Speaker 1: of this band because it's a rock band, What is
Speaker 1: the future of rock in the world? At law? Rock
Speaker 1: is not dead. You're using the wrong metric, So what
Speaker 1: metrics should we use? I mean you should just go
Speaker 1: to you know, go to a show, go to any
Speaker 1: you know club down the street. There's gonna be kids
Speaker 1: playing the guitar screaming their head off. So why do
Speaker 1: you think it's not translating into streams. I mean, you
Speaker 1: have a good number of streams, double digitmillions, but compared
Speaker 1: to you know that, it's simple, it's absolutely I study
Speaker 1: this stuff, and it is because rock as um as
Speaker 1: early adopter to technology, is not always great. And not
Speaker 1: only that, it's a specific, singular purchase connection. It's not
Speaker 1: a passive listening environment in that same manner. So if
Speaker 1: you look at iTunes and apples having a tough time
Speaker 1: doing it is building their rock streaming because iTunes is
Speaker 1: a very deliberate purchase. Sorry, iTunes is a very deliberate purchase.
Speaker 1: Where you've got streaming is a passive audience. I think
Speaker 1: you are looking at passive stream numbers across all the
Speaker 1: other genres um that have a bit of a baked
Speaker 1: in number just based on what it is. I do
Speaker 1: not think rock has fully converted as a genre to
Speaker 1: the streaming platforms. I think we are. I think we're
Speaker 1: the country just came on and look at the last
Speaker 1: two years of country massive and they are lated doctors.
Speaker 1: Does that mean that you should create passive listening music? No?
Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying is the last round of
Speaker 1: a doctor. So when always rhythmic urban music or the
Speaker 1: adopters technology history of time, rock the last one to
Speaker 1: move country as an indicator of that growth is massive.
Speaker 1: So I believe rock right now would be like buying
Speaker 1: property in Manhattan in the thirties. Okay, Nick, what do
Speaker 1: you think? Um? I think that there's a lot of
Speaker 1: you know, when you when I talk about alternative and
Speaker 1: they were like talking to go to pop and the streams.
Speaker 1: You know, there's a lot of people that listen to
Speaker 1: rock absorb it differently. A lot of the pop stuff
Speaker 1: is listened to buy thirteen year old girls that listen
Speaker 1: to it over and over and over and over again,
Speaker 1: constantly telling all their friends to listen to it over
Speaker 1: and over and over and over again. And that looks
Speaker 1: great when you're looking at a computer screen and see
Speaker 1: all those streams, but you don't necessarily see who's all
Speaker 1: behind it. And you also got to realize that uh
Speaker 1: more other people are being kidded to other than thirteen
Speaker 1: year old girls. Thirteen year old girls may drive the
Speaker 1: industry over al, but you know what I think, and
Speaker 1: I think people that listen to that did come out bad.
Speaker 1: But then when people listen to rock music, you know,
Speaker 1: they they want to hear a whole album. They have
Speaker 1: their own collection. They could be a huge fan of
Speaker 1: a band, but they're not going to listen to one
Speaker 1: song over and over again. And they may listen to
Speaker 1: multiple albums or they may also and they also have
Speaker 1: a large collection of of you know, records that they'll
Speaker 1: go to, right So it's just a it's a different
Speaker 1: habit of listening, but they're also more in tune of
Speaker 1: being loyal and staying there for the long career. So
Speaker 1: if you're a fan of a rock band and you know,
Speaker 1: I always love the Glorious Sons, I will always go
Speaker 1: to the shows even if I wasn't working them, And
Speaker 1: the same thing with other rock bands that I love,
Speaker 1: right So it's it's like, really the long term what
Speaker 1: I'm going to give long term? You know, you see
Speaker 1: those teenage girls that I was talking about in two years,
Speaker 1: that band that they think is the greatest thing in
Speaker 1: the world right now, they're going to completely forget about
Speaker 1: and not even like that's what I was saying. But
Speaker 1: you're you're using the wrong metric of rock is dead
Speaker 1: because it's you're based on front facing streaming numbers. You're
Speaker 1: not based there are I could find ten thousand artists
Speaker 1: that have more streams in this band that cannot play
Speaker 1: the ten people in their city. It's what you use
Speaker 1: to quantify what is alive and what is dead. And
Speaker 1: when you're in a room of people that are all
Speaker 1: on the same page, seeing the same song that's alive,
Speaker 1: and well, try to get five people to order the
Speaker 1: same topics on one pizza at a venue in that moment,
Speaker 1: that singular moment that speaks to how alive it is you.
Speaker 1: We've got to stop putting that narrative of the consumption.
Speaker 1: Doesn't it is tied to what something's alive or thriving?
Speaker 1: Because would you rather be an artist that has eight million,
Speaker 1: eighty million streams that will never be able to play
Speaker 1: a show and never be and you're at the mercy
Speaker 1: of is that going to continue? I'm I gonna have
Speaker 1: another hit? Or is healthy and vibrant to you being
Speaker 1: able to play too? Anywhere from a thousand on a
Speaker 1: loan to twelve thousand or fifteen thousand. Okay, let's go back.
Speaker 1: I was at the venue and I noticed to Winnebago
Speaker 1: when a U wall I presume that you're traveling your
Speaker 1: apparatus not anymore, thank god, that's just changed today. No, No,
Speaker 1: that's uh that we used to travel in that, but
Speaker 1: we actually travel on a bus now traveling a bus? Okay,
Speaker 1: so uh, what's the being on the road? Is that
Speaker 1: good battle? Otherwise? It just depends the day. Really. I
Speaker 1: mean for myself, I I really enjoyed playing music and
Speaker 1: being on the road and kind of like that camaraderie
Speaker 1: that you have with you know, your best friends in
Speaker 1: a bus and m But I mean, if I have
Speaker 1: a bad show, I hate being on the road. Okay.
Speaker 1: How about you know people say, well, you know, the
Speaker 1: twenty two hours on the road. Uh, the only reason
Speaker 1: it works is the one or two hours on stage.
Speaker 1: Would you agree with that? Absolutely? Okay? And the other thing,
Speaker 1: if we go back to rock and roll, the rock
Speaker 1: and roll acts of the classic rock era, they went
Speaker 1: on the road, and let's say they misbehaved in the
Speaker 1: hotel rooms and they part took of certain opportunities. To
Speaker 1: what degree do you do that? To what degree was
Speaker 1: that inhibited by mobile phone cameras? Well, we don't have
Speaker 1: the money to trash hotel rooms yet, so that's not
Speaker 1: been a thing. Um. But we have fun. We just
Speaker 1: go out and have fun. We honestly, like, right from
Speaker 1: the first day we ever hit the road, I treated
Speaker 1: it like this is never gonna happen again, so let's
Speaker 1: enjoy it while we're here. I mean, now it's more
Speaker 1: of a career and you have to be sensible, and
Speaker 1: you can't you can't go gang busters every night. But
Speaker 1: we have fun, Okay, well, let's go. You know you
Speaker 1: mentioned Rush earlier. Uh, those are nice guys. You know.
Speaker 1: Obviously Neil Purt has passed away and they probably won't
Speaker 1: play under the same name or whatever, maybe ever again.
Speaker 1: But I've been to Rush shows and you can count
Speaker 1: the number of women there a couple of So I
Speaker 1: went to your show last night, forty or fifty percent
Speaker 1: of the audiences women. Do you have any idea why
Speaker 1: that's the case. Uh, that's that's very new. I mean
Speaker 1: we're probably lucky last night. Realistically, I don't think so
Speaker 1: it's my songs. Yeah, I'm a sensitive man, and I
Speaker 1: mean I think I think that's what. Okay, Well, let
Speaker 1: me ask you this and you can answer any way.
Speaker 1: Would you like, is there still a groupie seen in
Speaker 1: the rock and roll world? I don't think. I just
Speaker 1: like it could be dudes too. Like we've see people
Speaker 1: up in every city. It's like, it's not droopies. It's
Speaker 1: like people who love your music who end up hanging
Speaker 1: out with you. It's like, I mean, it's like the
Speaker 1: dead so Brett having seen you and not having seen
Speaker 1: you before. You're quite the dynamic front man, and certainly
Speaker 1: even if the audience isn't reacting, You'll energize them. Where
Speaker 1: does that come from? I don't know. I'm crazy, man.
Speaker 1: When I was younger, I was the entertainer and the joker,
Speaker 1: and you know, the cry baby and the and the
Speaker 1: and then you know, I don't want to say the
Speaker 1: talented one, but the you know, the okay. But the
Speaker 1: difference is most people save the sing along to the
Speaker 1: end of the set. Yeah, where you started, It's essentially
Speaker 1: started off with that. That's a big risk. People may
Speaker 1: not sing. Yeah, well, we try to take risks every night.
Speaker 1: But I mean, I know people are going to sing
Speaker 1: in my heart of hearts, I feel like that's okay.
Speaker 1: But you're up on stage. You know, you're you know,
Speaker 1: you're moving, You're not staying in one place. You're exhorting,
Speaker 1: imploring the audience. That just feels totally natural to you.
Speaker 1: I mean it hurts sometimes and you uh, you lose
Speaker 1: your wind um, But I mean I never knew that
Speaker 1: there was another way to do it. Well, do you
Speaker 1: ever every night you hit the stage saying I'm gonna
Speaker 1: win the audience? Yes, and I haven't before, That's my question.
Speaker 1: And I've also crumbled on stage before. But there are
Speaker 1: some nights no matter what you try, it doesn't work. Okay,
Speaker 1: So what's the next step? Obviously, you sell arenas in Canada, Okay.
Speaker 1: And this is probably more of a question for Jason
Speaker 1: and Nick. How do you make it bigger? Which is
Speaker 1: always a desire and you want to push the button? Okay,
Speaker 1: you can answer. I think that. I mean, we've been
Speaker 1: pounding the pavement for like, I don't know, like seven years.
Speaker 1: I mean, there hasn't been a year that we haven't
Speaker 1: played over six shows, Like, we haven't been on the
Speaker 1: road for six of the year like in like three
Speaker 1: or four years. So I truly believe at some point
Speaker 1: it's time to kind of take a step back and relax.
Speaker 1: You know, you don't want to rest on your laurels.
Speaker 1: You want to still be working. But I don't think
Speaker 1: that you can go forever like that. It's it's gonna
Speaker 1: turn very badly. It's it won't go go on that way. Okay,
Speaker 1: But let's just assume this is as big as you
Speaker 1: ever get it. You're happy with that. Um. I think
Speaker 1: that's kind of a state of mind that I've been
Speaker 1: kind of dealing with and trying to figure out as
Speaker 1: a just as a person, you know, not as a
Speaker 1: you know, rock entertainer. For myself, I I want to
Speaker 1: have seven billion people here the songs we write, that is,
Speaker 1: that's that's what we're doing out here. And we're always
Speaker 1: going to be, you know, guys with good work ethic
Speaker 1: and and I mean, maybe those opportunities don't come. You know,
Speaker 1: I think there's a lot of luck in this business.
Speaker 1: Not to downplay anybody's work ethic or what they have
Speaker 1: done here, but there's a lot of luck that goes
Speaker 1: into this whole business as well. And I mean it's
Speaker 1: very hard work. But some people, some bands are great,
Speaker 1: and they never they never even get it shot, They
Speaker 1: never get out of their hometown. And I mean we
Speaker 1: I'm playing in front of fifteen thou people. I mean
Speaker 1: that's insane. You know, guys he didn't know what a
Speaker 1: producer is, who didn't have guitar pedals, who never owned
Speaker 1: a guitar pedal for the first three years of our career,
Speaker 1: are playing in front of fifteen thousand people. I mean,
Speaker 1: just that inble. But but I only only only you
Speaker 1: can answer. But there's certainly there's certain inherent limits that
Speaker 1: other people have hit tragically. Hip biggest being in Canada,
Speaker 1: never really made it in the US. A lot of
Speaker 1: acts you talk on the rock charts, you mentioned the Truths, etcetera,
Speaker 1: they are not big in America. So in addition to
Speaker 1: playing rock and roll, which is the hardest and the
Speaker 1: lengthiest time. So do you feel that, hey, you know,
Speaker 1: it's more different, cold to make it outside of your
Speaker 1: home country. Well, I think that there's so many more
Speaker 1: people in this country and so many more bands, and
Speaker 1: and I don't like and like Nick has described word
Speaker 1: career band like this isn't about racing to the top
Speaker 1: right now, and not in my eyes. I think you
Speaker 1: have to get to hit the road and play it
Speaker 1: smart and have fun and get better at your job,
Speaker 1: and you know, learn and write great songs and you know,
Speaker 1: feed a sense of community into people and truly love
Speaker 1: what you do. And I think if you can do
Speaker 1: all those things, I think that you can. You know,
Speaker 1: you can create magic, like real magic and it and
Speaker 1: I would love to do that forever. I just don't
Speaker 1: want to do it all at once. Well, how many
Speaker 1: shows are you are they playing? At least I think
Speaker 1: they count. The five year count was just under eight shows. Okay,
Speaker 1: So Nick how important radio today and breaking a band
Speaker 1: it certainly rock band. Well it's uh, you know, everyone
Speaker 1: likes to trash radio, you know, and they like to
Speaker 1: say it's all about the internet, but radio is still
Speaker 1: really important. When managers sign a band or a record label,
Speaker 1: it's it's always about sync, international radio. Those are the
Speaker 1: three things that everybody wants. And anyone will tell you
Speaker 1: that when you get a lot of airplay, you sell
Speaker 1: a lot more tickets. Uh, you know, you'll get more streams,
Speaker 1: you know. And I love seeing the magic. I've been
Speaker 1: doing radio promotion, like I said, for over twenty years,
Speaker 1: and to me it's magic, you know, to witness Brett
Speaker 1: create magic and something out of nothing. And then I
Speaker 1: get to be a soldier and go out there and
Speaker 1: get people to hear it and turn people onto it,
Speaker 1: and then travel to that city and see people reacting
Speaker 1: to that song and singing along and going crazy and
Speaker 1: screaming when they hear the song that they heard in
Speaker 1: the radio. People are still listening to the radio. And also,
Speaker 1: you know, uh, when you talked at one point, you
Speaker 1: talked about filters, right, there's there's a lack of filters. Yes,
Speaker 1: there's playlists, but they're limited. And you know, a lot
Speaker 1: of radio stations still play a part in being a
Speaker 1: filter of new music because people don't have the time
Speaker 1: to sit in front of the Internet and try to
Speaker 1: find the stuff that they like. So whether it's rock
Speaker 1: or alternative or you know, Triple A or non com radio, um,
Speaker 1: there is still that discovery. And a lot of times
Speaker 1: what you see is the most consumed online and the
Speaker 1: most talked about on socials is what's getting the most played,
Speaker 1: you know, at radio. When we were in Philly the
Speaker 1: last time we were, like the last time they were
Speaker 1: in Philly, they sold out like a two hundred cap room.
Speaker 1: And then when we go back to Philly and it
Speaker 1: was over eight hundred tickets sold uh a year later
Speaker 1: and uh, and I'm seeing W M. M. Mart shirts
Speaker 1: on like like all over the place. And that's the
Speaker 1: radio station that has adopted this band and has really
Speaker 1: loved this band and has them live on air on
Speaker 1: their morning show to perform an interview. And today most
Speaker 1: radio stations they won't put a band on the morning
Speaker 1: show for an interview and performance. They'll put them in
Speaker 1: a in a in a side room and videotape it
Speaker 1: for YouTube and and sell it to an advertiser, not
Speaker 1: that it's a bad thing and it doesn't give me
Speaker 1: the awareness, but you know, on MMR, I'll have fifty
Speaker 1: people in the top five market hearing them talk and
Speaker 1: then find out that there was over a hundred tickets
Speaker 1: old you know, online day of show because of that.
Speaker 1: So that's what drives me to do this. Okay, so
Speaker 1: we've we've really gotten the groundwork here. What is the
Speaker 1: next step and how big can the glory of Suns becoming?
Speaker 1: What is your goal? We are a record cycle and
Speaker 1: a half behind where we are in Canada. We are
Speaker 1: seeing the exact same metrics, the same lit mistest of
Speaker 1: how it's growing. We're seeing the same grow almost to
Speaker 1: a chart if you put it behind it, I think
Speaker 1: all the things that Brett is saying, the things that
Speaker 1: you can control and the love of it, and that
Speaker 1: will lead to the next success because we've already proven
Speaker 1: this concept and we didn't prove it on the back
Speaker 1: of these elements that we don't control. We proved it
Speaker 1: based on what works for this band and what we
Speaker 1: want to do. And now we've applied it into the
Speaker 1: arguably easily the yard the largest music market on the
Speaker 1: planet and we are going from two hundred to eight hundred.
Speaker 1: We're going from three hundred to nine hundred, like we're
Speaker 1: seeing it Detroit, We're going from three D. Nick did
Speaker 1: a great sales pitch on radio in terms of selling
Speaker 1: those overall tickets. Are they all sold by radio or
Speaker 1: what do you think is driving that consumption? I think
Speaker 1: it's this fan base. I think we have this rapid
Speaker 1: community of people. I'm at a couple in Seattle last
Speaker 1: year that have been to four shows. They were not
Speaker 1: nineteen years old, and they met us after the show
Speaker 1: in Seattle and they've been to four shows Portland's seah
Speaker 1: I came remember the other ones, the fat fan community
Speaker 1: and the people being the start of the megaphone that
Speaker 1: believe that everything this band does comes from a place
Speaker 1: of true heart and integrity are preaching at to everybody.
Speaker 1: I think definitely that like we might not have the
Speaker 1: most fans, but our fans probably annoy the hell out
Speaker 1: of people with how much So how did you end
Speaker 1: up opening for the Stone? Well, we're actually talking about
Speaker 1: this in an argument and a heated discussion about production costs.
Speaker 1: We Mark Norman signed the band to a g on
Speaker 1: a global touring deal, and he's like, maybe one day
Speaker 1: we could play you guys could play with the Stones,
Speaker 1: and obviously huge We're all huge Stones fans, and so
Speaker 1: I'm having this conversation, Um, this is our first club
Speaker 1: tour in Canada, and I'm putting the pitch in and Mark,
Speaker 1: it goes to the Stones team and it goes from
Speaker 1: I think it goes like Ronnie, Charlie, Keith, Nick Mick.
Speaker 1: It goes like that's how it goes. Then it got
Speaker 1: somewhere in the middle and then they're like, I don't
Speaker 1: know if they can handle a big stage because we
Speaker 1: hadn't played an arena yet. We were a club act
Speaker 1: from Canada. But they're like, oh, we like it. So
Speaker 1: we play our first hometown show arena showing Kingston people.
Speaker 1: Um spent a lot of money on production at I
Speaker 1: was a bit of a punching bag taking for that.
Speaker 1: Filmed it, put an edit together, sent it to a
Speaker 1: g who sent it through to the Stones, and I
Speaker 1: was on a beach in Miami with my wife and
Speaker 1: I got a phone call saying do you want to
Speaker 1: go to Marseilles and open for the Stones? And the
Speaker 1: first call I made was to you, and I think
Speaker 1: it's like, it's probably the only time I've been excited
Speaker 1: in the last ten years. It was unbelievable. So we're going,
Speaker 1: We're going. We had to move mountains, cost us a
Speaker 1: bunch of money to go do it. We do that show, um,
Speaker 1: and then we got to do it again this summer
Speaker 1: in Toronto, and um if it came from the way
Speaker 1: Nick believes in the band, the way I believe in
Speaker 1: the band, the way the fans believe in the band.
Speaker 1: Mark Norman believed in the band and advocated in places
Speaker 1: that we would never be able to touch. And so
Speaker 1: when Brett says we may not have the most fans,
Speaker 1: we for sure I have real special ones that feel
Speaker 1: like kinship to this and that is going to be
Speaker 1: the key to how we become a household name. And
Speaker 1: it reverberates all around too, Like I don't think there's
Speaker 1: a single passive person working for us, like on any step,
Speaker 1: Like everybody with us wants the same thing. And I
Speaker 1: mean Jason calls the world domination, but I mean we
Speaker 1: we just want to see We just want people to
Speaker 1: hear hear this and and to take the ride with us.
Speaker 1: And I think on that note we've covered the story
Speaker 1: of the Glorious Sons to date. One thing I will
Speaker 1: say is you know you are an amazing frontman, Brett,
Speaker 1: and the band is very dynamic live and I'm not
Speaker 1: blowing smoke up your ass. So therefore, in terms of
Speaker 1: going to see as they say, you had a very
Speaker 1: engaged audience when I saw you at the l Ray
Speaker 1: many event gentlemen, Thanks for doing this till next time.
Speaker 1: This is Bob Leftstond