WEBVTT - Educational Inequity is Solvable 0:00:15.076 --> 0:00:21.876 Pushkin. I'm Mave Higgins, and this is Solvable Interviews with 0:00:21.916 --> 0:00:25.356 the world's most innovative thinkers working to solve the world's 0:00:25.356 --> 0:00:30.956 biggest problems. So my solvable is to redefine education and 0:00:31.036 --> 0:00:35.636 to create curriculum, better culgy and school cultures which will 0:00:35.796 --> 0:00:40.436 enable children to think and behave like democratic citizens and 0:00:40.636 --> 0:00:43.916 not just be looking at and technical education for the 0:00:43.996 --> 0:00:47.956 labor force, so that in the next ten or fifteen years, 0:00:48.796 --> 0:00:52.956 all the children of the world, actually, but let's say 0:00:52.996 --> 0:00:56.956 just India can learn to be learned, to be educated 0:00:57.036 --> 0:01:01.796 to be good democratic citizens. That is doctor Urashi Sani, 0:01:01.956 --> 0:01:05.956 the renowned educator and social entrepreneur. She's the founder and 0:01:06.116 --> 0:01:11.676 CEO of Study Hall Educational Foundation. Today's solvable is about 0:01:11.716 --> 0:01:15.436 social justice. It's about education that teaches us to think 0:01:15.436 --> 0:01:19.756 critically and become more engaged citizens. As you'll hear, all 0:01:19.796 --> 0:01:22.836 of these things are connected and they apply to every 0:01:22.876 --> 0:01:26.556 one of us wherever we live. Doctor Sannie's focus is 0:01:26.556 --> 0:01:29.396 in India. She grew up there and works there today. 0:01:30.076 --> 0:01:34.276 She believes that radically redefining education will enable young people 0:01:34.316 --> 0:01:39.196 to solve some of our most intractable problems. Gender inequality, 0:01:39.436 --> 0:01:44.716 class inequality, and extreme poverty. She is really thinking big. 0:01:45.596 --> 0:01:49.076 Across India, almost forty percent of girls that are between 0:01:49.116 --> 0:01:53.356 fifteen and eighteen years old drop out of school and college. 0:01:53.836 --> 0:01:56.156 Most of them do so not because they get a job, 0:01:56.196 --> 0:01:59.596 but because they're forced to take on household chores or 0:01:59.636 --> 0:02:03.116 they have to start begging. Child marriage is a major 0:02:03.196 --> 0:02:07.036 force taking girls out of school too. Indian girls account 0:02:07.076 --> 0:02:09.636 for a third of the world's seven one hundred and 0:02:09.716 --> 0:02:14.276 twenty million child brides. The benefits of keeping girls in 0:02:14.356 --> 0:02:17.636 school are enormous, and not just for the lives and 0:02:17.676 --> 0:02:23.276 opportunities of those individual girls. It's tough though. While poverty 0:02:23.316 --> 0:02:27.236 in India is declining, tens of millions of people still 0:02:27.316 --> 0:02:32.396 live in extreme poverty, unable to access any education. So 0:02:32.836 --> 0:02:35.796 there's all that to face down. But the brilliance of 0:02:35.836 --> 0:02:38.836 doctor Sannie is that her work is much more than 0:02:38.956 --> 0:02:43.156 stamping out illiteracy and keeping girls in school. Doctor Sannie 0:02:43.236 --> 0:02:47.836 taps education for its potential to develop a social and 0:02:47.996 --> 0:02:52.876 political consciousness in students. Teaching girls and boys that no 0:02:53.116 --> 0:02:57.076 one person is more valuable than another and empowering them 0:02:57.116 --> 0:03:00.756 to live their lives differently is a solvable that crosses 0:03:00.796 --> 0:03:05.636 borders easily. It's universal truth. Doctor Sannie has been working 0:03:05.676 --> 0:03:08.116 for the rights of children and women for more than 0:03:08.156 --> 0:03:12.316 thirty years now. Starting with a tiny preschool in her garage, 0:03:12.596 --> 0:03:17.596 her Prema Schools have expanded into India's public schools, and 0:03:17.756 --> 0:03:20.916 by doing so, she now reaches about one hundred thousand 0:03:20.916 --> 0:03:24.556 girls in a thousand schools and around half a million 0:03:24.636 --> 0:03:28.276 people in total. So let's take a listen now to 0:03:28.596 --> 0:03:33.356 doctor or Vatti Sani in conversation with Ann Applebaum. Tell 0:03:33.396 --> 0:03:36.236 me what it is about this problem that made you 0:03:36.276 --> 0:03:38.956 want to solve it. I was raised in Puna, which 0:03:38.996 --> 0:03:41.356 is on the western part of India, in a middle 0:03:41.396 --> 0:03:44.716 class household, and my parents sent me to an English 0:03:44.756 --> 0:03:47.116 medium convent school which was one of the best in 0:03:47.156 --> 0:03:49.196 the country by the way, it had the best results, 0:03:49.676 --> 0:03:51.916 and I really did well. I finished a high school 0:03:51.996 --> 0:03:54.396 education and I did well, and within a year my 0:03:54.476 --> 0:03:57.196 father arranged a marriage for Melian. I was married off. 0:03:58.396 --> 0:04:01.556 So as I grew up, I was married, I had 0:04:01.556 --> 0:04:06.156 two children, and I really reflected on my education and 0:04:06.276 --> 0:04:10.556 felt that though it gave me many technicals skills in 0:04:10.556 --> 0:04:13.636 that instance, it was a quality education, but what it 0:04:13.716 --> 0:04:16.276 didn't do for me, and that was critical. It did 0:04:16.316 --> 0:04:18.476 not teach me that I was an equal person and 0:04:18.516 --> 0:04:21.596 that I had the right to use these technical skills 0:04:21.876 --> 0:04:25.036 for my own life to give me some control over 0:04:25.076 --> 0:04:28.116 my own life. I never thought to question my father 0:04:28.236 --> 0:04:30.396 when he arraigned this marriage for me and I was 0:04:30.436 --> 0:04:33.916 barely seventeen. And that's when I began to think that 0:04:34.076 --> 0:04:36.836 even though it was considered a very high quality education, 0:04:37.076 --> 0:04:40.156 it had really failed me as it failed thousands and 0:04:40.276 --> 0:04:44.076 thousands of young women in India millions reely. And that's 0:04:44.156 --> 0:04:46.916 what started me off on the journey of looking at 0:04:47.036 --> 0:04:50.476 education critically and thinking that a great deal, that it 0:04:50.556 --> 0:04:54.276 needed to be redefined, that it wasn't doing the job 0:04:54.476 --> 0:04:57.196 that I think it could do. And I want to 0:04:57.276 --> 0:05:00.836 quote Pallyslavski. He's a dramatist and he said that the 0:05:00.876 --> 0:05:03.236 goal of education is not just to know, but to live. 0:05:04.116 --> 0:05:08.116 And so my education gave me skills, It gave me knowledge, 0:05:08.116 --> 0:05:10.396 it gave me information, but it didn't really give me 0:05:10.516 --> 0:05:13.716 important skills that I needed to live my life. And it, 0:05:13.756 --> 0:05:17.116 as a woman in India, most importantly, didn't teach me 0:05:17.156 --> 0:05:21.076 that I was an equal person, that I deserved everything 0:05:21.076 --> 0:05:23.876 that everybody else got. So that my brothers went off 0:05:23.916 --> 0:05:27.996 to engineering college and commerce education, and I was married off. 0:05:28.196 --> 0:05:32.076 There was no opportunity for me to really redefine or 0:05:32.116 --> 0:05:35.596 even drive me the driver of my own life, and 0:05:35.636 --> 0:05:38.876 my education did nothing to help me think critically about 0:05:38.956 --> 0:05:42.316 a system that would assign this role of this position 0:05:42.316 --> 0:05:45.356 to women and two girls. And that's what started me 0:05:45.396 --> 0:05:48.756 off on my journey, and that's how I founded my school, really, 0:05:49.356 --> 0:05:51.876 and within the school, the goal was that was really 0:05:51.876 --> 0:05:55.036 our lab to look at. Sorry, what kind of school 0:05:55.116 --> 0:05:57.676 was it? It was a preschool to begin with six 0:05:57.756 --> 0:06:01.116 children in my garage, and the goal was to see 0:06:01.156 --> 0:06:03.996 what children want to learn, what the children need to learn, 0:06:04.636 --> 0:06:07.796 and how do you embed curriculum, how do you embed 0:06:07.876 --> 0:06:12.756 pedagogical practices in people's lives and lives are very complex 0:06:12.836 --> 0:06:15.516 really that even though I live in my life as 0:06:15.556 --> 0:06:18.836 an individual, my life is embedded in a social system, 0:06:19.036 --> 0:06:22.276 which is embedded and impacted by a political system. So 0:06:22.316 --> 0:06:24.676 when you look at how people live their lives, you 0:06:24.796 --> 0:06:27.956 have to look beyond the individual to the social system, 0:06:27.996 --> 0:06:31.036 to the political system. And then education must help you 0:06:31.076 --> 0:06:34.516 address that. It must first of all take that into consideration, 0:06:34.956 --> 0:06:37.796 and they must teach us how to navigate that system. 0:06:38.276 --> 0:06:40.836 How to position yourself in the system. This is how 0:06:40.836 --> 0:06:44.516 we define the goal of education, that it must help 0:06:44.596 --> 0:06:47.356 us to ask and answer the question who am I? 0:06:47.796 --> 0:06:51.316 And how am I related to the universe and others 0:06:51.356 --> 0:06:54.116 in it? What is the universe like? What is my 0:06:54.196 --> 0:06:57.076 universe like? And not just my physical universe, my social 0:06:57.156 --> 0:07:00.116 my political universe? When am I positioned in it? How 0:07:00.156 --> 0:07:02.436 am I related to others in it? Am I at 0:07:02.436 --> 0:07:04.636 the bottom of the ladder? Who has power? Who doesn't 0:07:04.676 --> 0:07:08.476 have power? So while we learn traditional subjects like mathematics 0:07:08.516 --> 0:07:12.796 and science and history and geography, they must enable us 0:07:12.836 --> 0:07:15.036 to answer these questions. And if they don't, that's a 0:07:15.116 --> 0:07:17.396 job very poorly done. And so for the last thirty 0:07:17.436 --> 0:07:20.116 three years, we've been trying to find a solution to 0:07:20.196 --> 0:07:23.756 this problem. I can't say we you know, we've cracked 0:07:23.796 --> 0:07:27.076 the problem, we found the exact solution, but we have 0:07:27.156 --> 0:07:31.116 found many solutions to address this. Tell me how you 0:07:31.236 --> 0:07:34.836 have gone about designing and writing new curriculum. Have you 0:07:34.876 --> 0:07:37.996 studied how it's done in other places? Have you worked 0:07:38.036 --> 0:07:41.236 out of your own experienced you consult teachers? So you know, 0:07:41.356 --> 0:07:44.476 I got my PhD and my master's in education from 0:07:44.556 --> 0:07:48.636 JUC Berkeley, which is a very diverse, very vibrant kind 0:07:48.636 --> 0:07:51.756 of university, and that's where I really gained the social 0:07:51.756 --> 0:07:55.356 and political perspective. In fact, a life changing event was 0:07:55.396 --> 0:07:58.876 when I read Paula Ferri. He's a great educator and 0:07:58.916 --> 0:08:03.116 philosopher from Brazil, and he really looked at literacy in 0:08:03.156 --> 0:08:06.036 a very different way. He said it was revolutionary, it 0:08:06.196 --> 0:08:10.076 was a humanizing force. He said that you read the 0:08:10.116 --> 0:08:12.996 world in order to read the world, which means that 0:08:13.036 --> 0:08:15.636 if literacy doesn't teach you how to read your own world, 0:08:15.836 --> 0:08:19.036 then it fails you. And that was a real aha moment. 0:08:19.236 --> 0:08:22.276 I said, Yeah, I have a first master's in philosophy, 0:08:22.396 --> 0:08:26.796 so I liked metaphysical questions anological question but this was 0:08:26.876 --> 0:08:30.036 really a way of marrying both my interests. And how 0:08:30.076 --> 0:08:34.036 did I go about it by reading many education philosophers, 0:08:34.116 --> 0:08:37.076 Christian Motiving one is it very great, and in philosopher 0:08:37.316 --> 0:08:40.836 vent the natric or John Dewey, Paula Frere, who was 0:08:40.916 --> 0:08:44.436 really very very influential in my thinking, and many others. 0:08:45.036 --> 0:08:48.356 But most importantly, how we developed this curricular by it 0:08:48.596 --> 0:08:52.116 was by watching our students very carefully engaging with them, 0:08:52.636 --> 0:08:57.156 and that was our whole direction to the teachers as well, 0:08:57.476 --> 0:09:00.836 that you must engage with students very carefully and learn 0:09:00.956 --> 0:09:04.876 from them how to teach them. So in all my curricula, 0:09:04.956 --> 0:09:09.796 I've built a curricula on a critical feminist pedoglogy and 0:09:10.116 --> 0:09:14.156 it's based on critical dialogues, which are again Parli Frere's term. 0:09:14.556 --> 0:09:18.356 And it has emerged from a series of critical dialogues 0:09:18.476 --> 0:09:22.116 with young girls, adolescent girls. And we've done that with 0:09:22.236 --> 0:09:25.316 boys now, and that's our method. We are way of 0:09:25.356 --> 0:09:28.996 developing curriculus a emergent one that it must emerge from 0:09:29.036 --> 0:09:33.596 grounded reality. It must emerge from students. Nobody consults students, 0:09:34.476 --> 0:09:36.636 and you know, you build, and we don't build anything 0:09:36.676 --> 0:09:39.956 in a lab. I write no curriculu sitting in my office. 0:09:40.316 --> 0:09:43.756 I will write them retrospectively after I have spent a 0:09:43.836 --> 0:09:47.196 lot of time working with students in the classroom. So 0:09:47.276 --> 0:09:50.476 in fact, the students are the authors. Partly they are 0:09:50.516 --> 0:09:54.476 co authors of the curriculum with their teachers. I never 0:09:54.516 --> 0:09:56.956 go in with a blueprint that oh, I go in 0:09:56.996 --> 0:09:59.396 with an idea. I go in with a theory and 0:09:59.476 --> 0:10:03.836 a philosophy, and after that it emerges from conversations, from 0:10:03.876 --> 0:10:08.156 actual work with children in classrooms. Can you give me 0:10:08.196 --> 0:10:11.876 some examples of how this is different from how girls 0:10:11.956 --> 0:10:14.836 or eardie, anybody would have been taught in India before. 0:10:15.276 --> 0:10:17.796 Of course, I went to school fifty years ago at 0:10:17.796 --> 0:10:22.636 the same time. Nobody ever ever, you know, it was 0:10:22.676 --> 0:10:24.356 the way good school, so I don't want to bash it. 0:10:24.396 --> 0:10:26.516 By the way, and the teachers they did what they knew, 0:10:26.956 --> 0:10:29.876 and the principal did what she knew. These were British nouns, 0:10:30.476 --> 0:10:34.396 and the teachers were Indian teachers, but they were guided 0:10:34.476 --> 0:10:37.876 by them. You know, they taught me. They never ever 0:10:38.076 --> 0:10:41.756 thought to ask me about my personal life. They never 0:10:41.796 --> 0:10:45.396 ever thought that that was relevant. They never ever thought 0:10:45.796 --> 0:10:50.316 to address the issue of how unequal things were, how 0:10:50.316 --> 0:10:54.916 an unequal the patriarchal social structure of India was. And 0:10:54.996 --> 0:10:57.476 so it didn't change my life. I had to do 0:10:57.556 --> 0:11:02.596 that myself. So how it's different is that we think 0:11:02.756 --> 0:11:06.956 that of course girls students, boys and girls both or 0:11:07.036 --> 0:11:10.996 in case you asked about girls, they you should welcome 0:11:11.076 --> 0:11:14.476 their lives into the classroom. For example, if we're dealing 0:11:14.556 --> 0:11:17.956 with a case of child marriage, a huge problem in India, 0:11:17.996 --> 0:11:20.956 by the way, which has a solution, I will tell 0:11:20.996 --> 0:11:24.476 them how my mind was really almost a child marriage, right, 0:11:24.636 --> 0:11:26.756 So I will tell them about what it felt like 0:11:26.876 --> 0:11:30.276 for me, and the girls immediately will talk about oh yes, 0:11:30.356 --> 0:11:34.156 and you know, Nandini was married off in fifth grade 0:11:34.196 --> 0:11:36.756 and nobody even told her that she was getting married. 0:11:36.756 --> 0:11:38.716 When she came home, she saw that there was some 0:11:38.836 --> 0:11:41.236 kind of a party happening, and so her mother told her, 0:11:41.236 --> 0:11:43.276 get dress, get dressed, She's what's going on? She's you're 0:11:43.276 --> 0:11:47.636 getting engaged today? And she didn't fitness high school and 0:11:47.636 --> 0:11:50.156 she was married off. So I asked them that, okay, 0:11:50.196 --> 0:11:52.116 so what is it like for girls after they get 0:11:52.156 --> 0:11:54.356 married then? And then they will tell you, Oh, they 0:11:54.396 --> 0:11:58.316 treat it like servants. They have babies very quickly, they 0:11:58.316 --> 0:12:01.116 have sex when they're not ready for it, and they 0:12:01.156 --> 0:12:04.436 have no power in their new households. Everybody they live 0:12:04.476 --> 0:12:07.956 by permission. Everyone tells them what to do, and their 0:12:07.956 --> 0:12:10.996 lives are pretty awful. Then don't their parents know this? 0:12:11.236 --> 0:12:13.556 Your parents know? That's so why did it just happened? 0:12:13.716 --> 0:12:16.836 Or because the social system is like that? I said, 0:12:16.836 --> 0:12:19.156 so let's look at the social system and why is 0:12:19.196 --> 0:12:21.956 it so cruel to girls? And do you know why 0:12:21.996 --> 0:12:24.756 can't it be changed? And do you think it. Can 0:12:24.796 --> 0:12:27.516 they say I should be changed? And can it? This 0:12:27.636 --> 0:12:30.596 is the art? But how it is human made and 0:12:30.716 --> 0:12:32.676 human beings can change it and you and I can 0:12:32.796 --> 0:12:36.636 change it. So that's how the conversation would go. And 0:12:37.236 --> 0:12:41.356 from there you bring in history, all history and even 0:12:41.796 --> 0:12:46.196 you know, feminist movements that have changed things. Also, how 0:12:46.236 --> 0:12:49.636 there are laws that came into being because people realize 0:12:49.636 --> 0:12:52.276 it's cruel to girls and why it shouldn't happen. But 0:12:52.396 --> 0:12:57.076 nobody follows the law because tradition and culture overrides it. 0:12:57.356 --> 0:13:00.316 And who makes tradition and cultures? We do? I think 0:13:00.356 --> 0:13:02.916 the goal is for them to understand that as citizens, 0:13:02.916 --> 0:13:06.196 you know, we the people give to ourselves, adopt and 0:13:06.356 --> 0:13:09.436 enact the constitution, right, so whose we the people? To 0:13:09.556 --> 0:13:12.236 help them think of themselves as we the people And 0:13:12.316 --> 0:13:15.716 it's very impowering. So through and nobody ever did that. Ever, 0:13:15.956 --> 0:13:19.596 no one does it in many schools the traditional curriculum 0:13:19.756 --> 0:13:21.916 and not just in India, by the way, I think 0:13:21.916 --> 0:13:26.276 everywhere does not think that it needs to include this 0:13:26.356 --> 0:13:28.836 in the curriculum. These kinds of dialogues, these kinds of 0:13:28.876 --> 0:13:32.996 conversation to set aside school space. When people talk of 0:13:33.076 --> 0:13:36.116 progressive education, how do we get more technology so that 0:13:36.156 --> 0:13:38.876 you can do better teaching of math and science. Heck, 0:13:38.956 --> 0:13:40.876 we've had better teaching of math and science in the 0:13:40.916 --> 0:13:44.516 last fifty years and has to change the world. Are 0:13:44.556 --> 0:13:47.356 we in a better place? Why do we not think 0:13:47.556 --> 0:13:52.036 that maybe we should drop fifty percent of what's going 0:13:52.076 --> 0:13:58.676 on in the traditional curriculum and include teaching for democratic citizenship. 0:13:59.596 --> 0:14:01.596 And it can be done while you teach math, while 0:14:01.636 --> 0:14:04.276 you teach science, while you teach history, and you should 0:14:04.316 --> 0:14:07.596 have a special space to teach it as well like 0:14:07.756 --> 0:14:11.796 you teach anything else. The pedagogy has to be a 0:14:11.796 --> 0:14:16.236 critical pedagogy. It must include critical dialogues. It must include 0:14:16.836 --> 0:14:21.036 enabling and encouraging students to bring their own experiences in it, 0:14:21.236 --> 0:14:24.676 to reflect critically on them, and then to show them 0:14:25.276 --> 0:14:28.396 that things can be different, to become solvers, to become 0:14:28.476 --> 0:14:31.516 problem solvers. Okay, so you have worked in your own 0:14:31.556 --> 0:14:34.236 schools and you've designed a curriculumal a curriculum like this, 0:14:34.876 --> 0:14:37.396 Tell me how you spread it to others? How do 0:14:37.436 --> 0:14:39.756 you convince other schools to adopt it? So what they 0:14:39.756 --> 0:14:43.596 have done in the last since twenty eleventh rarely that 0:14:43.756 --> 0:14:46.556 actually we were doing this and we video all these 0:14:46.596 --> 0:14:49.756 dialogues and somebody from UNICEF saw it and she said, hey, 0:14:49.796 --> 0:14:52.316 this is great, and we are working with these public 0:14:52.356 --> 0:14:55.636 schools with very poor adolescent girls and they could really 0:14:55.676 --> 0:14:57.716 benefit from it. Do you think you could turn it 0:14:57.756 --> 0:15:01.716 into a curriculum and help us contrain their teacher as it? Sure, 0:15:01.796 --> 0:15:03.916 and we did it for thirty eight schools. So we 0:15:03.996 --> 0:15:07.396 got their teachers, we helped build a gender lens in 0:15:07.436 --> 0:15:11.036 them personally, first all to look at their own lives 0:15:11.076 --> 0:15:13.196 and see how gender it impacted it. They were mostly 0:15:13.476 --> 0:15:17.436 female teachers, and then we taught them how to practice 0:15:17.556 --> 0:15:22.596 critical pedagogy in their classrooms, how to redefine their role 0:15:22.636 --> 0:15:26.596 as teachers so that they became advocates of girls' rights 0:15:26.596 --> 0:15:30.236 and help girls become advocates for themselves advocates. So we 0:15:30.356 --> 0:15:33.276 took it to thirty eight schools. They liked it, they 0:15:33.476 --> 0:15:36.756 asked us to take it to another hundred schools, and 0:15:36.836 --> 0:15:39.716 now we've taken it to over a thousand schools through 0:15:39.876 --> 0:15:44.356 teacher training and then a lot of offsite post training 0:15:44.436 --> 0:15:48.116 support of teachers. We've also built a critical room for 0:15:48.236 --> 0:15:51.796 boys now and so we're training men on how men 0:15:52.036 --> 0:15:56.436 female teachers as well, how to think about masculinity differently, 0:15:56.836 --> 0:16:00.636 how to see men as advocates for girls' rights, because girls' 0:16:00.716 --> 0:16:03.396 rights are human rights, and that's what we've been doing 0:16:03.436 --> 0:16:05.756 for the last year and a half. As well. We 0:16:05.836 --> 0:16:10.636 engage in large scale social campaigns, so that's girls and 0:16:10.796 --> 0:16:17.476 teachers and parents march in communities, you know, protesting against 0:16:17.516 --> 0:16:22.476 oppression of girls and women, and mobilizing public opinion for 0:16:22.916 --> 0:16:25.836 the girl's right to education and girls right to their 0:16:25.836 --> 0:16:30.356 own lives, against hid marriage, against domestic violence. And now 0:16:30.396 --> 0:16:34.716 recently the girls came up with this paternal alcoholism is 0:16:34.716 --> 0:16:37.236 a big problem. They said, that's the next campaign we're 0:16:37.276 --> 0:16:39.916 going to do, and we want fathers to engage in 0:16:39.956 --> 0:16:43.956 that as well. What about traditional civics education, in other words, 0:16:43.996 --> 0:16:46.436 teaching people this is how the court system works, this 0:16:46.556 --> 0:16:50.636 is how the parliament works. It's about pride, it's about country, 0:16:50.676 --> 0:16:54.196 it's about the history of democracy, the constitution and so on. 0:16:54.316 --> 0:16:56.676 How do you incorporate that kind of education into what 0:16:56.716 --> 0:16:59.316 you do. See that is part of the traditional curriculum, 0:16:59.316 --> 0:17:01.956 and of course we leverage that. Here's the difference, though, 0:17:02.556 --> 0:17:05.116 There are two ways you can approach it. One is 0:17:05.156 --> 0:17:08.556 where you explain the system as it is you take 0:17:08.596 --> 0:17:12.716 a technical approach where you describe the system, you explain 0:17:12.796 --> 0:17:14.556 how it works, and you said you should be loyal 0:17:14.596 --> 0:17:18.156 to the system and you should support it. Right. The 0:17:18.196 --> 0:17:20.396 other approach you can take is that you explain the 0:17:20.516 --> 0:17:25.156 system and you take a critical view of it, not 0:17:25.196 --> 0:17:28.636 just the political system, but also the social system. And 0:17:28.676 --> 0:17:32.076 you get students to understand that they are responsible for 0:17:32.716 --> 0:17:37.396 following this system but also changing it where it falls short, 0:17:37.716 --> 0:17:41.556 but most importantly for understanding that what does it mean 0:17:41.596 --> 0:17:44.516 to be a citizen? Right, and to explain that these 0:17:44.556 --> 0:17:48.236 constitutions are wonderful. India has a wonderful constitution, by the way. 0:17:48.716 --> 0:17:53.836 So to feel responsible to realize the constitution and then 0:17:54.196 --> 0:17:58.516 to be feel responsible to also change it, to participate actively, 0:17:58.876 --> 0:18:03.036 to understand power. That what the constitution has done is 0:18:03.076 --> 0:18:06.756 with its idea of equality, especially in very hierarchical societies 0:18:06.756 --> 0:18:10.396 like India and you know his historically even Britain and 0:18:10.476 --> 0:18:14.836 the US, that it has taught us that power should 0:18:14.876 --> 0:18:18.316 be equally distributed. That's the whole idea of equality. Now 0:18:18.436 --> 0:18:21.796 we all believe that equality, liberty, fraternity, these are the 0:18:21.796 --> 0:18:26.836 cornerstones of democracy. Right, who's following it? Our social structures 0:18:26.876 --> 0:18:30.876 following it, our families democratic, our schools democratic? Is power 0:18:30.956 --> 0:18:34.276 equally distributed? If it isn't, will isn't that a problem? 0:18:35.076 --> 0:18:39.396 And so would you do? Would you do to realize that? So, 0:18:39.516 --> 0:18:42.116 especially in the case of gender, it is so unequal 0:18:42.276 --> 0:18:45.316 that patriarchal societies have no place in a democracy daily 0:18:45.396 --> 0:18:48.516 They should not exist, but they do. They're firmly entrenched. 0:18:49.196 --> 0:18:51.436 So how do you come back that? How do you 0:18:51.516 --> 0:18:54.756 change that without having a war between the sexes in 0:18:54.796 --> 0:18:57.876 a peaceful manner, in a collaborative manner, Which is why 0:18:57.916 --> 0:18:59.596 we changed to boys as well. We said, hey, we 0:18:59.636 --> 0:19:01.676 need to get them to engage in this as well, 0:19:01.916 --> 0:19:04.276 and we need to teach them that patriarchy is not 0:19:04.316 --> 0:19:07.196 their fault, but it does give them more power, and 0:19:07.236 --> 0:19:09.956 it is very cruel to their sisters, their mothers, to 0:19:10.036 --> 0:19:12.116 all the women they love. So what are they going 0:19:12.116 --> 0:19:15.236 to do about it? What's their solution? Can you give 0:19:15.276 --> 0:19:19.636 me some examples students of yours who were who were 0:19:19.676 --> 0:19:22.076 motivated by the kind of curriculum that you taught them, 0:19:22.316 --> 0:19:25.596 things that they've gone on to do afterwards. They have 0:19:25.756 --> 0:19:28.996 become decision makers in their own families. They have been 0:19:29.036 --> 0:19:32.556 able to stop their own child marriages and others. They 0:19:32.596 --> 0:19:35.756 have become the drivers of their lives, and in several 0:19:35.796 --> 0:19:38.716 cases they become the heads of their families, and they 0:19:38.756 --> 0:19:42.596 have huge They have inspired a great deal of respect 0:19:42.676 --> 0:19:45.196 in their own families and in the community. And to 0:19:45.276 --> 0:19:48.116 give you a concrete example, when my students were in 0:19:48.156 --> 0:19:50.916 eighth grade, they came to me and they said that, 0:19:50.956 --> 0:19:52.996 you know, it's a great thing that this has happened, 0:19:52.996 --> 0:19:55.676 that we are changing. But do you know that many 0:19:55.796 --> 0:19:59.156 girls in our society and many people in our society, 0:19:59.196 --> 0:20:01.556 they don't look at life like this. So what can 0:20:01.596 --> 0:20:03.476 we do about that? I said, so, what do you think? 0:20:03.756 --> 0:20:07.556 So they formed a group called Nangana means a brave woman? 0:20:07.676 --> 0:20:10.836 What are your women really? And what they did was 0:20:10.996 --> 0:20:15.116 we video all our critical dialogue. They took those videos 0:20:15.156 --> 0:20:19.316 and they helped public meetings, They helped meeting community meetings 0:20:19.316 --> 0:20:22.556 in people's homes, invited women to that and then had 0:20:22.596 --> 0:20:25.836 the same critical dialogues with the women and why do 0:20:25.836 --> 0:20:30.036 you tolerate this? Why does a woman never retaliate when 0:20:30.036 --> 0:20:32.356 a man beats up? When our husband beats up? Is 0:20:32.396 --> 0:20:34.996 that right? Is that wrong? What can you do? And 0:20:35.036 --> 0:20:38.996 then the idea of the campaign really emerged from this work, 0:20:39.836 --> 0:20:42.996 right so, and this was really directed and spearheaded by 0:20:42.996 --> 0:20:45.636 our own students. In terms of the boys, that work 0:20:45.716 --> 0:20:49.116 is fairly recent, but even there, we had a focus 0:20:49.196 --> 0:20:51.716 group discussion with parents of the boys we've been working 0:20:51.756 --> 0:20:54.956 with for eighteen months and that's this is what they said. 0:20:55.316 --> 0:20:57.916 These are parents, mothers and fathers both, and they said 0:20:57.956 --> 0:21:01.596 that our boys have started helping with household jaws more. 0:21:02.116 --> 0:21:06.556 They have started advocating for their sisters, also advocating for 0:21:06.596 --> 0:21:11.716 their continual education and for a delay in child marriage. 0:21:11.876 --> 0:21:14.076 Boys have said that they will refuse to take DALDI 0:21:14.676 --> 0:21:18.596 in their marriages. So they have learned to assume leadership 0:21:18.676 --> 0:21:23.956 roles in their own lives and they walk alongside with 0:21:24.076 --> 0:21:27.756 the girl students for the campaigns. Most of us our 0:21:27.996 --> 0:21:31.156 alumni are now like twenty five, twenty six, the oldest 0:21:31.156 --> 0:21:34.996 one would be about that old. So so far, in 0:21:35.036 --> 0:21:38.076 their own personal lives and in their own local communities, 0:21:38.076 --> 0:21:40.796 they've been very effective. What do you say to the 0:21:40.876 --> 0:21:42.996 people who say, all, right, this is all very well, 0:21:43.036 --> 0:21:45.316 and you know, we're glad there's some of this in 0:21:45.356 --> 0:21:49.636 our schools, but in the real world of work, people 0:21:49.636 --> 0:21:51.956 are also going to have to learn math and science, 0:21:52.076 --> 0:21:55.276 and those things need to take up time in the curriculum, 0:21:55.396 --> 0:22:00.156 and they require really difficult and focused education, and they're 0:22:00.196 --> 0:22:03.116 not you know, we don't have time for all this conversation. 0:22:03.276 --> 0:22:04.756 We need to, we need to. We need to make 0:22:04.756 --> 0:22:07.276 sure that people are ready to live in this rapidly 0:22:07.356 --> 0:22:12.196 changing anywhere. Work itself is changing very quickly. We offer 0:22:12.236 --> 0:22:16.236 our own schools as an example. Our school has a 0:22:16.316 --> 0:22:19.556 retention rate of eighty eight percent, which is twice the 0:22:19.676 --> 0:22:24.116 national average. Students have higher achievement scores, and ninety seven 0:22:24.196 --> 0:22:27.076 percent of those who we retain go on to higher education, 0:22:27.676 --> 0:22:30.956 so we are not short changing them where technical education 0:22:31.076 --> 0:22:34.156 is concerned, and we are able to do this alongside 0:22:34.596 --> 0:22:37.396 when you build the capacity to aspire, when you build 0:22:37.396 --> 0:22:40.196 a self and teach girls that you know you have 0:22:40.276 --> 0:22:42.356 the right to do things for yourself. It's a real 0:22:42.596 --> 0:22:45.956 driver so that they work very hard at trying to 0:22:45.996 --> 0:22:49.356 succeed academically as well. And our results are very good. 0:22:49.476 --> 0:22:52.676 Our academic results, our achievement scores are very good, our 0:22:52.716 --> 0:22:55.756 transition rate to higher education is very good. So clearly 0:22:55.796 --> 0:22:57.956 there is a way to find the time if you 0:22:58.076 --> 0:23:01.316 think this is important. For example, in maths in seventh grade. 0:23:01.876 --> 0:23:04.676 We teach them proportion. We teach them how to derive 0:23:04.796 --> 0:23:09.556 area of a given room or any service. Here's what 0:23:09.636 --> 0:23:13.196 we did. We told our students, the middle class students 0:23:13.236 --> 0:23:16.436 back away. These were middle class students who live very comfortably. 0:23:16.956 --> 0:23:20.476 And we told them, okay, here's the thing. Let's buddy 0:23:20.556 --> 0:23:23.636 you with stuod girls and boys from very poor homes. 0:23:23.836 --> 0:23:27.076 We have schools that also work with poster and said, 0:23:27.116 --> 0:23:29.316 then why don't you do this? If they let you, 0:23:29.356 --> 0:23:32.916 can you go to their homes and measure their home 0:23:33.756 --> 0:23:36.676