Speaker 1: And now.
Speaker 2: Watching my mic back, you're like that striking water head,
Speaker 2: borders behind him and the borders.
Speaker 1: So if you're just tuning into City Soccer, I'm your host, Ramses.
Speaker 3: Job, you know, Ramses on our return to the show,
Speaker 3: I'm never as lighthearted as when we started. I'm just
Speaker 3: q ward at this point, you know, when the show
Speaker 3: comes on, I try to give a little about the time.
Speaker 3: When we get here, I'm so annoyed and fed up
Speaker 3: that I almost just say yeah, I'm hi, Hi people,
Speaker 3: how you doing.
Speaker 1: We'll tell you that you should stick around. We still
Speaker 1: got a lot more showing story for you. When we
Speaker 1: were talking about Wells Fargo and they're discriminatory loan practices
Speaker 1: and now they're killing black opportunity a follow up to
Speaker 1: I think this will be our third segment where we're
Speaker 1: talking about black Belt and for the lack there and
Speaker 1: some of the culprits. And in this episode we're going
Speaker 1: to be you know, talking about against some discriminatory loan
Speaker 1: practices killing black opportunity from someone who is not a
Speaker 1: first time.
Speaker 3: Offender Wells Fargo, let me hold some yeah exactly.
Speaker 1: So first, however, we're going to talk about becoming a better. Ally,
Speaker 1: I like this part of the show because I think
Speaker 1: this is why everyone listens. You know, you want to
Speaker 1: learn how to support your black and your brown brothers
Speaker 1: and sisters, and you know, marginalize peoples across the board.
Speaker 1: And I think that having sorts of conversations really in powerful.
Speaker 1: At least that's what I hear. I agree, you know
Speaker 1: in my travels, like, oh my gosh, I didn't know that.
Speaker 1: So they were going to talk about Harvard. Harvard created
Speaker 1: a one hundred million dollars slavery reparation fund. The story
Speaker 1: comes from Yahoo, so Instagram. Harvard was founded in Cambridge, Massachusetts,
Speaker 1: in sixteen thirty six, and got a one hundred page
Speaker 1: report that made several recommendations about how this one hundred
Speaker 1: million dollars should be spent, including the improvement of educational
Speaker 1: opportunities for descendants descendant communities, honoring enslaved people through memorials
Speaker 1: and research, and creating partnerships with black colleges and university.
Speaker 1: I like that it also recommended identifying supporting directive to
Speaker 1: descendants in Black and Native American enslaved individuals who labored
Speaker 1: on Harvard's campus and who were enslaved by previous Harvard leaders.
Speaker 1: I own to underlying Native American because a lot of
Speaker 1: times our brothers, Native brothers get left out of these conversations.
Speaker 1: So I'm glad that Harvard is it's identifying them as well.
Speaker 1: The report found that Harvard's staff, including four presidents and
Speaker 1: slave more than seventy individuals until slavery was outlawed in
Speaker 1: state in seventeen eighty three. I mean, as a state
Speaker 1: had to outlaw it, Harvard, the enlightened institution, didn't trink
Speaker 1: it upon themselves to do so. The report also found
Speaker 1: that the university quote benefited from extensive financial ties to slavery,
Speaker 1: including donations from slave traders. It's said that from the
Speaker 1: mid nineteenth century welleson the twentieth century, Harvard presidents and
Speaker 1: prominent professors promoted race science and eugenics. Eugenics sign end
Speaker 1: quote conduct. I did abusive research, including the photographing of
Speaker 1: enslaved and subjugated human beings. Harbard's subjugated human beings. That's
Speaker 1: the tough. Harvard's announcement comes as US institutions grappling with
Speaker 1: how to make amends for their role in slavery. Last year,
Speaker 1: the leaders of the Jesuit Conference of increased vouch to
Speaker 1: raise one hundred million dollars to benefits the descendent of slaves.
Speaker 1: It wants. Oh all right, now moving on.
Speaker 3: One hundred million dollars is not nothing, by the way,
Speaker 3: I just wanted to say that out loud.
Speaker 1: Yes, everybody needs to do that very individual but these
Speaker 1: institutions follow their lead. Yeah, that's how you become a
Speaker 1: better ally. So this comes to us from Black enterprise.
Speaker 1: It's a I think it's primarily a financial publication.
Speaker 3: And business and finance.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so we don't pull from this very odd often,
Speaker 1: but lately we've been realizing how important money is. You
Speaker 1: always knew that, Cue. You always have talked about capitalism,
Speaker 1: and I've always kind of echoed, but you said that
Speaker 1: you obviously have a deeper education with respect to capitalism,
Speaker 1: and it's the invisible forces that come into play with
Speaker 1: that economic system in place. I'm just a great audience
Speaker 1: for you. But recently we've had to come to terms
Speaker 1: with how finance as well, you know, and so forth,
Speaker 1: you know, create opportunities, mobility or on the other end
Speaker 1: of the spectrum, restrict, stagnate, stagnate or otherwise limit your
Speaker 1: opportunities to live a full life relative to the people around.
Speaker 1: If everybody's poor, nobody knows what poor is. Everybody's rich,
Speaker 1: nobody knows what poor is, you know. But if there
Speaker 1: are poor people and people driving through their neighborhoods collecting
Speaker 1: and drive it back out, and what you have is
Speaker 1: a condition that causes people to realize something's wrong with
Speaker 1: what I'm dealing with, and they take advantage of whatever
Speaker 1: opportunities there are to try to pursue a better life
Speaker 1: for themselves. As in human nature, it's true across the
Speaker 1: board for all people of all colors and all places
Speaker 1: in every corner of the planet. Right, we just kind
Speaker 1: of have to bear the front of it because we
Speaker 1: black folks in this country have been on the receiving
Speaker 1: end of harmful racist legislation and harmful practices not just
Speaker 1: by the government, but by local institutions and by individuals.
Speaker 1: For a long time, it was perfectly legal to discriminate
Speaker 1: against people and not serve people. And you know, you
Speaker 1: have to give these people need dignity if you if
Speaker 1: you choose not to. And now in twenty twenty two,
Speaker 1: that civic cipher exists. And now after a year and
Speaker 1: a half of doing the show. Money is the thing
Speaker 1: we were happy to do. I'm not a munchy, humbly person.
Speaker 1: I've been very blessed, but I do recognize that it's
Speaker 1: a very important deity and it is time for us
Speaker 1: to pay out. So again, Civil rights attorney Bank Crump
Speaker 1: says Wells Fargo discriminates. Wells Fargo's discriminatory loan practices are
Speaker 1: killing black opportunity. Right at the presser, Crump, along with
Speaker 1: co counsel Lisa Friedman and Suzanne bish urged Wells Fargo's
Speaker 1: shareholders to approve emotion by the SEIU, one of the
Speaker 1: country's largest labor unions, to conduct an independent racial equity
Speaker 1: audit on the bank. Crump also urged other politicians to
Speaker 1: follow the lead of New York Mayor Eric Adams and
Speaker 1: stop investing with Wells Fargo Bank. Now I'm going to
Speaker 1: stop parents the story, and for those that do, listen
Speaker 1: to my daily podcast on the IRT media app called
Speaker 1: the Black Information Network and Daily Podcast, you might have
Speaker 1: heard this story. There's a very good friend of mine
Speaker 1: and Ques who told us this story, and we both
Speaker 1: believe it to be true. There's a gentleman who lives
Speaker 1: where we live in Arizona.
Speaker 3: His name is.
Speaker 1: Arturo's a Hispanic name comes from Tucson, who are very
Speaker 1: poor at floor is in his house. Our party, as
Speaker 1: he is known, is a billionaire. That's a billionaire. What
Speaker 1: would be He owns the Anaheim Angels. He owns under
Speaker 1: armor by himself, and he owns I think huge stakes
Speaker 1: in like carvan and a bunch of others. Put a
Speaker 1: businessman that is start in marketing outdoor billboards and soul.
Speaker 1: I had to do case study on him. When I
Speaker 1: was in college. My undergrads named Mark, so I know
Speaker 1: this name no moreno in the nineties, I believe is
Speaker 1: how the story King to us went into a Wells
Speaker 1: Fargo bank and the approach to teller looking as he
Speaker 1: looks a human being whose ancestry is tied to Mexico. Right,
Speaker 1: no great offense there, but to some people that is
Speaker 1: an offensive look.
Speaker 3: I was going to say that there should be no
Speaker 3: offense there, but remember where we are.
Speaker 1: But to have such a high dollar amount on your check,
Speaker 1: so I'm not sure how this part of the story
Speaker 1: also don't holp me to it. But he went into
Speaker 1: the bank and he either attempts to cash or deposit
Speaker 1: or something like that into one of these accounts. The
Speaker 1: teller did not believe him and believed that two perhaps
Speaker 1: be fraudulate, which by itself isn't the worst offense. But
Speaker 1: it was after this, after the back and forth between
Speaker 1: Arti and the teller, when Arti was made to sit
Speaker 1: and wait while they investigated, and they embarrassed him. And
Speaker 1: you know, obviously that's a very especially me to do
Speaker 1: business with the financial institution that it's good. So Artis says,
Speaker 1: you know what n Riches is in. You know what,
Speaker 1: I'll tell you what, this doesn't even need to be
Speaker 1: a problem. I'll just withdraw all my money. You don't
Speaker 1: even have to worry about this check. Oh no, not
Speaker 1: from that one account to all my accounts. Right, and
Speaker 1: as it turns out, we'll stargo bank. That branch at
Speaker 1: least didn't have enough money to fund his withdrawal because
Speaker 1: I believe his holdings with the bank at the time
Speaker 1: or someone in the neighborhood of this is the way
Speaker 1: the story was told, someone in the neighborhood for hun dollars.
Speaker 1: So what happens is because they couldn't honor his request,
Speaker 1: a powerful man well I mean just get my lawyer
Speaker 1: was involved, you know, since you wanted to make it
Speaker 1: into that. We'll show you what power looks like. I'll
Speaker 1: show you how wrong you are. I love the sort
Speaker 1: o way. The people at the branch end up having
Speaker 1: to get a hold of the CEO of Wells Fargo.
Speaker 1: CEO well Spargo had to fly on a private jet
Speaker 1: immediately to Arizona to talk to Riti Molno face to
Speaker 1: face because he knew if Ardi pulled out four hundred
Speaker 1: million dollars from well Spargo that the stock price would
Speaker 1: drop and they could not afford that at that time.
Speaker 1: You know, and this is well Spargo, is that the
Speaker 1: burnie made off one or I forget what it was.
Speaker 1: And a few years ago they were gotten into trouble
Speaker 1: for doing like some sort of practice. They had to
Speaker 1: settle out of court front of ours post all happenings
Speaker 1: they had so like a classics of lawsuit. Recently, we'll
Speaker 1: start of took my house during the a procession. Right,
Speaker 1: I gave him all their money, he still took my
Speaker 1: house because they had the power to do it even
Speaker 1: though they were paid. This is a sort of right.
Speaker 1: When the CEO comes out has a conversation with ARTI
Speaker 1: what does already say? It says, all right, I'll keep
Speaker 1: doing business with you. These are my terms. We're going
Speaker 1: to hire more Hispanic people in your branches. We're gonna
Speaker 1: put a Spanish people in your advertisements. In what else part,
Speaker 1: We're gonna make sure that there's some representation, there's some inclusion.
Speaker 1: Going to change this culture, because what I experienced was wrong.
Speaker 1: If you want to keep my business, then you're going
Speaker 1: to have to do right, not by me, by everyone.
Speaker 1: So obviously already, after hearing stories, a big hero of
Speaker 1: mindse I like people that stand up for other people.
Speaker 1: I think that another part of this is that you
Speaker 1: realize how institutions like this hold a lot of power
Speaker 1: over your personal well being and the mobility to have
Speaker 1: in society if they just don't like you. You know,
Speaker 1: because already has four hundred million dollars, but I'm still
Speaker 1: working on that figure. You know, a lot of us
Speaker 1: are a lot of us listening, and even with four
Speaker 1: hundred million dollars still they still had to deal with that.
Speaker 1: So I'll continue. The pressor also included black homeowners who
Speaker 1: say they're victims of Wells Fargo's discriminatory bank practices and
Speaker 1: have joined the class action lawsuit against the bank. Again
Speaker 1: just a brief story, but and I don't know that
Speaker 1: this was a racist base thing. But I do realize
Speaker 1: that I know for a fact that I checked that
Speaker 1: I was a black home owner when I applied for
Speaker 1: that loan, because I was proud of that fact that
Speaker 1: I wanted to contribute to that statistic. So if they
Speaker 1: wanted to find that out, they could. But I don't
Speaker 1: know that that factored into it. But I do remember
Speaker 1: this bank giving them all the money that they asked
Speaker 1: for to get caught up on my loan because I
Speaker 1: fell behind. Annoyed thing was everyone they had all the
Speaker 1: money they needed, that filled out all the people where
Speaker 1: could be was fun. And they sent the check back
Speaker 1: to me and said, you know what, instead, we'll just
Speaker 1: take the house. And as it turned out, they could
Speaker 1: get more money selling the house than they could keeping
Speaker 1: me as a customer, and so I lost my house,
Speaker 1: had a foreclosure, had the Fortunately I made it out
Speaker 1: of that obviously during the day, well compared to them.
Speaker 1: But you know, these sorts of practices, once you add
Speaker 1: a little bit of like a racist component, or you
Speaker 1: see it happening to one group of people more than
Speaker 1: other groups of people. You start seeing a pattern and
Speaker 1: it becomes one of those things that reinforces on a
Speaker 1: deep psychological level how this world and how this country
Speaker 1: feels to us. I mentioned before that I used to
Speaker 1: work at a place called Brown and Brown Nissan in Arizona,
Speaker 1: and I was probably seventeen eighteen years old working there
Speaker 1: selling next eras and centers and you know all those cars,
Speaker 1: right maximums and whatnot. Cool people, Yeah, you know, But
Speaker 1: I found out that the Nissan Corporation was lending money
Speaker 1: to black people, are charging higher interest rates across the
Speaker 1: board to the court, they had to settle and wit
Speaker 1: longdoing and settle and pay to pay for that. And
Speaker 1: what I took from that is that I, being a
Speaker 1: part of that machine was actually getting people in black
Speaker 1: people that would come and be so excited to get
Speaker 1: their new centers. Man. I was because you know, I've
Speaker 1: always been a car bess. I've been into like more
Speaker 1: fancy cars or whatever. But there's some peoples they have
Speaker 1: a new car that doesn't break down. They're elated over
Speaker 1: the movie. And for some people, that's for me, that's
Speaker 1: as long as I'm happy, and I my babies are
Speaker 1: staying good. Right, these people it's like the biggest day
Speaker 1: of their life, and it was soured. And I was
Speaker 1: happy for having helped them get the right colored car,
Speaker 1: the right features, or just getting a car and working
Speaker 1: extra hard and staying with people helping them with their
Speaker 1: credit over months, all that sort of stuff. They finally
Speaker 1: got their car, and then to know that those black
Speaker 1: folks were overcharged and I was the person that, you know,
Speaker 1: I got a commission off of that, so I was
Speaker 1: a part of trying to sell the car toon. I
Speaker 1: felt taking advantage unused, but the lasting impression was for
Speaker 1: me at least, why did they hate us? Right? So
Speaker 1: when I look at this well Stargos thing, I'm like,
Speaker 1: why did they hate us? What do we do? There's
Speaker 1: no way to not pay. They either pay or they
Speaker 1: take the house.
Speaker 3: The interesting thing is pointing out those trends, though, right
Speaker 3: when you have the data that supports the argument almost
Speaker 3: indefinitely right to stretch it out for as much time
Speaker 3: as you like, scale it however you'd like. It points
Speaker 3: to very very obvious discriminatory lending. And you know, pointing
Speaker 3: those things out makes you the person that you're the
Speaker 3: one made to feel uncomfortable by pointing out that these
Speaker 3: things exist. You almost have to put on white gloves
Speaker 3: and be very delicate about how you say these things
Speaker 3: out loud to not offend the person that's doing the
Speaker 3: oppressive you know, prejudice, kind of awful things. You know,
Speaker 3: how gear you shine that light at me? I would
Speaker 3: I would never do that. I'm far too decent a
Speaker 3: person for that. Except I have all of the information
Speaker 3: and the data that proves that that's not the case.
Speaker 1: Set us, So all right, I'll continue. The class action
Speaker 1: suit was filed by Aaron Braxton in March twenty twenty. Imagine, well,
Speaker 1: Spargo's systematically discriminated against black homeowners and it's evaluation and
Speaker 1: refinancing applications. That's sort of what I get. A Bloomberg
Speaker 1: News invest detigation backs up the claim, finding that the
Speaker 1: bank approved black homeowners seeking to refinance mortgages during the
Speaker 1: pandemic at a much more rate than white homeowners forty
Speaker 1: seven percent to seventy two percent. Again, they approved black
Speaker 1: homeowners at forty seven percent and white home owners at
Speaker 1: seventy two percent. Additionally, the bank has paid out millions
Speaker 1: in racial discrimination claims made by workers and customers. In
Speaker 1: twenty twelve, the Justice Department ordered the bank to pay
Speaker 1: one hundred and seventy five million after charging African American
Speaker 1: and Hispanic homeowners higher fees and improperly placing them in
Speaker 1: subprime loans. In twenty eighteen, Wells Fargo was accused of
Speaker 1: praying on black and Latino homeowners. I think that was
Speaker 1: the case that I was talking about, but that one
Speaker 1: doesn't say it went to court. I'm so sorry. I
Speaker 1: didn't know that I would remember that, so that's why
Speaker 1: I'm not prepared to articulate it. But this might have
Speaker 1: been somewhere between twenty sixteen and twenty eighteen. Wells Fargo
Speaker 1: had to beat crow because they were super duper wrong,
Speaker 1: and if you just look up whatever happened at that time,
Speaker 1: you'll find all. Right now, we would not be doing
Speaker 1: our job if we didn't get in a word from
Speaker 1: Wells Fargo. So we will take a moment to share
Speaker 1: the words of Wells Fargo' spokeswoman Jennifer len Getting. She
Speaker 1: shared this with Black Enterprise again the source of our researcher,
Speaker 1: and she responded to the press conference saying, quote, we
Speaker 1: are deeply disturbed by allegations of discrimination that we believe
Speaker 1: do not stand up discrutiny. We're confident that we follow
Speaker 1: relevant government sponsored enterprise guidelines and our decision making, and
Speaker 1: that our underwriting practices are consistently applied regardless of a
Speaker 1: customer's race or ethnicity. These unfounded attacks on Wells Fargo's
Speaker 1: stand and start contract to the company's significant and long
Speaker 1: term commitment closing the minority homeownership gap, Langan said. She
Speaker 1: goes on, in twenty twenty, Wells Fargo was the largest
Speaker 1: bank lender for home mortgages to black families, and this
Speaker 1: is consistent with our performance over the last decade from
Speaker 1: twenty eleven to twenty, in which the company helped as
Speaker 1: many black families purchase homes as the next three largest
Speaker 1: bank lenders combined. Okay, so let's let's she said that. Okay,
Speaker 1: and sure, but we were talking about Fox News Earth,
Speaker 1: so let's try to dissect this language. Okay, I'm not
Speaker 1: sure who the next three the largest lenders are, but
Speaker 1: off the top of my head, I named Chase, which,
Speaker 1: if I'm guessing, it's probably the biggest, you know bank
Speaker 1: in the country. You know, at least for this type
Speaker 1: of banking Bank of America, which might be number two.
Speaker 1: Who knows bill Wells Fargo, you know, maybe they're number three.
Speaker 1: I don't know, so don't want me to. But in
Speaker 1: any case, it's a matter of how big Wells Fargo
Speaker 1: is relative to those other three. If every bank is
Speaker 1: the same size, right, Wells Fargo is the same size
Speaker 1: as the Credit Union on the corner, then yeah, that's
Speaker 1: saying something. Absolutely Wells Fargo, You're absolutely right, we got
Speaker 1: nothing more to talk about. But if Wells Fargo is
Speaker 1: a giant compared to the next three financial institutions that
Speaker 1: create these sorts of loans, then that's a real easy
Speaker 1: bar to get off, right, because if Wells Fargo is
Speaker 1: three times the size of the next three lenders, and
Speaker 1: then yeah, that's that. That makes sense.
Speaker 3: And this and this isn't a punitive response from us.
Speaker 3: We don't know that Wells Fargo isn't.
Speaker 1: I'm just saying this is how language works, right.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And saying we're the least racist of the racist
Speaker 3: isn't really a flex.
Speaker 1: Ya.
Speaker 3: It's not saying and I'm not saying that that's what
Speaker 3: they're saying.
Speaker 1: I'm just saying yeah, and we've talked about on a
Speaker 1: show that it's we're picking on Wells Farbo right now
Speaker 1: because A we can and because we have personal experiences,
Speaker 1: but b because that's what the articles about this has
Speaker 1: been about Bank of America Chase. It could have been
Speaker 1: about again the credit union on the corner by your house.
Speaker 1: Listening to us today in whatever city you're in, you know,
Speaker 1: here in Vermont listening, you know, I shout out Vermont.
Speaker 1: It's such an ex Vermont, you know, and I've been there.
Speaker 1: Your your your state is so kind, your people are
Speaker 1: so kind. Shout out to all our listeners in Vermont
Speaker 1: and our affiliates. We have two broadcasts affiliates, so thank
Speaker 1: you both for carrying the show. Anyway, if you live
Speaker 1: in Vermont, we'd be having the same conversation about your
Speaker 1: financial institution as well. So we're just so happens to
Speaker 1: be the case that we're talking about Wells Fargo. And
Speaker 1: I say that to say that we're not saying that
Speaker 1: Wells Fargo is the only institution that engages in discriminatory
Speaker 1: black practices. In fact, we've spent a few shows now
Speaker 1: describing that the whole of I guess the economics as
Speaker 1: they relate to black people. The economics of this country
Speaker 1: as it relates to black people is biased away from
Speaker 1: black people getting and retaining wealth and tour white folks
Speaker 1: and not just black people losing wealth, but Hispanic do
Speaker 1: anybody mellimated? You know? And then you know white folks,
Speaker 1: and then Asian folks, largely, especially upperly mobile, super educated
Speaker 1: Asian folks, have been able to benefit from that. And
Speaker 1: I'm not playing into that model minority myth. There are
Speaker 1: systems in place that allow a lot of those folks
Speaker 1: to get fast tracked. There's a you know, what we
Speaker 1: do in this country is we try to get brains
Speaker 1: around the world. You know, we don't. This is how
Speaker 1: America is great. We go around, we scour the planet,
Speaker 1: We get all the best minds. We bring them here
Speaker 1: and put them in the best institutions. And in order
Speaker 1: for them to come here and study, we make sure
Speaker 1: that they have to stay here, live here, reside here,
Speaker 1: and work here before leaving to go back to their countries.
Speaker 1: And so we kind of have a monopoly on the
Speaker 1: world's brains. Maybe monopoly too strong a work, but that's
Speaker 1: really our strongest asset when it comes to a lot.
Speaker 1: And China has a lot of people, a lot of
Speaker 1: those Asian countries, Southeast Asia Asia proper, we have a
Speaker 1: lot of really smart folks, and so there are fast
Speaker 1: tracks to get here, to get to the wealth. And
Speaker 1: then if you choose to stay, have children, you know,
Speaker 1: bring over family members, et cetera. There are systems in
Speaker 1: place for you to do that. So those things often
Speaker 1: contribute to see look at those Asian folks, they're doing great,
Speaker 1: or do they have system in place to get them
Speaker 1: a new great? Or did you give them loans that
Speaker 1: are only good in black neighborhoods so that they could
Speaker 1: continue to have problems and develop rational tensions with black
Speaker 1: folks and so forth. I won't lean into that one again,
Speaker 1: but we should revisit that topic at some point.
Speaker 3: Shall we.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but first some black history. It's not for the
Speaker 1: way black history factor. Have you seen Charlie and the
Speaker 1: Chocolate Factory?
Speaker 3: I have, actually, yeah, multiple times.
Speaker 1: I think it's the Monk the track. Yeah, so I
Speaker 1: saw the original movie. I don't even know if those
Speaker 1: original movies, but I saw the version of the movie.
Speaker 1: But Gene Wilder likewise, and then later there was a
Speaker 1: version of Johnny Depp and I think that was called
Speaker 1: Charlie and the Traplic Factory, right, But it's the same story.
Speaker 1: So if you're not familiar with the story, basically a
Speaker 1: kid it's broke or his family as a grandfather that's
Speaker 1: bed ridden, and there's this contest by Willie Wonker. This
Speaker 1: is famous the confectioner or whatever it is the word
Speaker 1: the person that makes candies. This guy decides who wants
Speaker 1: to give away his chocolate factory to a kid, or
Speaker 1: that he wants a kid to win a lifetime supply chocolate,
Speaker 1: that's what it is, and has this contest right and
Speaker 1: puts five golden tickets. This is why the term golden ticket,
Speaker 1: you know, it's popular. So it's part of our collective
Speaker 1: consciousness that comes from the story that tick. Anyway, evil
Speaker 1: eyed viewers of the show, or black one of the
Speaker 1: two or non white one of the three might have
Speaker 1: noticed that Willy Wonka had a global contest children all
Speaker 1: around the earth send chocolate to every corner of the
Speaker 1: globe where children can hear it. And those five golden
Speaker 1: tickets went to five white children. Several things like that
Speaker 1: that show you how important you are.
Speaker 3: You grow up black because of course they did, right.
Speaker 1: But you know it's a story. I'm not going to
Speaker 1: leave into it, but just little things like that over
Speaker 1: the lifetime, it frames the world and in a way,
Speaker 1: in a strange way for you know, white folks, you
Speaker 1: might not get it because it's normal, but for us
Speaker 1: it's like normal. You know, we're not a part of that.
Speaker 1: That's not a thing for us. But how cool would
Speaker 1: it be if we were? So I'll read it. This
Speaker 1: comes from NPR. Donald. Sorry, Rold, how did that?
Speaker 3: Don't we say?
Speaker 1: You leant how to say? Tell me out?
Speaker 3: Roll Dall?
Speaker 1: Rold Dall, rolld Dall's widow says Charlie from the Chocolate
Speaker 1: Factory was originally black? How about that? Our way? Black
Speaker 1: history factor Charlie Buckett, the he wrote of Rold Doll's
Speaker 1: famous children book, Charlie and the Chomplate Factory also which
Speaker 1: also inspired two films in a British confectory confectionery company,
Speaker 1: was originally written to be a little black Boy, according
Speaker 1: to an interview with Felicity Doll, the author's widow. She
Speaker 1: spoke earlier this week on BBC Radio Forest Today program
Speaker 1: alongside her Roll Dall biographer, Donald Sturk, who said it
Speaker 1: was the writer's agent who quote thought it was a
Speaker 1: bad idea end quote, And had the author turned the
Speaker 1: protagonist white, now how different with things might things have been?
Speaker 1: How much stronger of a story with that had been
Speaker 1: for little black kids around the world to feel like
Speaker 1: it's possible to be lucky, you know, to wake up
Speaker 1: you know most you know, at least the people I
Speaker 1: grew up around were port. I wasbor growing up, and
Speaker 1: luck wasn't really a companion for me growing up. You know.
Speaker 1: It's just kind of like very unlucky. Anyway, I'll continue,
Speaker 1: People would ask why Charlie was black, stir quoted the
Speaker 1: agent is saying. The BBC interviewer followed up by suggesting
Speaker 1: a new rewrite of the book that would recast Charlie
Speaker 1: as a black child, to which Felicity Gaul responded it
Speaker 1: would be wonderful with And that's.
Speaker 3: As well.
Speaker 1: Charlie and the Chocolate Factory, in which your boy from
Speaker 1: an impoverished family and Brittany finds the fifth and final
Speaker 1: ticket to any tour of the factory run by eccentric
Speaker 1: chocolate tear really wantka. I was just one of the
Speaker 1: many wildly successful children's classics written by Doll that also
Speaker 1: inspired mission most major most pictures. Others included James and
Speaker 1: the Giant Peach, The BFG Matilda, and Fantastic Mister Fox.
Speaker 1: Although beloved by many, Doll faced numerous accusations of racism,
Speaker 1: both on and off the printed page. Here's what the
Speaker 1: story is text what we worry because that's what we do.
Speaker 1: Perhaps the most notably, the NAACP called on Dall to
Speaker 1: alter his portrayal of the famous factory workers known as
Speaker 1: the Obolumphas and Charlie and Chocolate Record. In the book.
Speaker 1: The original publication, they were described as African pigmies whom
Speaker 1: walk and discovered and then shipped to his factory to
Speaker 1: make use of their labor. Dolls transformed the envelopers into
Speaker 1: orange tinted factory workers with green hair in subsequent editions
Speaker 1: of the book. In twenty sixteen, The Forward, a Jewish newspaper,
Speaker 1: posts a series of anti Semitic quotes attributed to Doll,
Speaker 1: including quote there is a trait in the Jewish character
Speaker 1: that does provoke animosity and Pierre reached out to the
Speaker 1: old Doll organizations for response to the Forwards. Quotes and
Speaker 1: more generalized critiques of racism, but did not hear back
Speaker 1: the four publication. The actor who played Charlie Bucket in
Speaker 1: nineteen seventy one film adaptation, Peter Ostrom, was a bite
Speaker 1: featured in the film with Blondze with a blonde side park,
Speaker 1: as reported on NPR's weekend edition Sunday in two thousand
Speaker 1: and five. After starring the originally the Austroa never acted
Speaker 1: in another film and went on to become a better area.
Speaker 1: So in this story, you have whitewashing, which is something
Speaker 1: that we have talked about when we need to talk
Speaker 1: about on the show, and we have now the opportunity
Speaker 1: to ponder not just this instance, but all the many
Speaker 1: instances when we get written out of stories, or we
Speaker 1: have opportunities to be in stories, or when people we
Speaker 1: think the casting of white characters to be black that
Speaker 1: reaction to them because we've seen this going all the
Speaker 1: way back, like, oh, we've always been white. No, not
Speaker 1: in all the instances. Superman has always been white. He
Speaker 1: can't be blaming. James Bond has always been white, he
Speaker 1: can't be black. Well, listen, because now I'm seeing that
Speaker 1: sometimes these things actually start out white even racist people
Speaker 1: because saying and racist stuff here. And at least in
Speaker 1: one of his books, a character was back and we
Speaker 1: never got to see what that would become. And this
Speaker 1: is just another page in our black reality, but it's
Speaker 1: important to share it. And yeah, that's our great black
Speaker 1: history fact. Your thoughts.
Speaker 3: You know, it's interesting throughout the history of art and literature,
Speaker 3: we've always been able to point to the differences between
Speaker 3: rich and poor, even extreme levels of classism and you know,
Speaker 3: very very poor and very very rich where a middle
Speaker 3: class doesn't even exist. The lack of empathy and grace
Speaker 3: with regard to even casting black people as a part
Speaker 3: of these stories is what always catches me off guard,
Speaker 3: because what harm would it actually do to let the
Speaker 3: sympathetic figure of a story be a black.
Speaker 1: Kid that's having And that's just heavy enough for us
Speaker 1: to leave it right here. So thank you so much
Speaker 1: for tuning in to Civic Cipher once again. I'm your host,
Speaker 1: Rams's job.
Speaker 3: I go by the name q Ward.
Speaker 1: Today's show is sponsored by Hip Hop Weekly Magazine and
Speaker 1: produced by our producer, Maggie Williams. Maggie be Knowing Stuff,
Speaker 1: Knowing Stuff Man. Listen at the website Civic Cipher dot com.
Speaker 1: You can download this in any previous episodes. You could
Speaker 1: send us topics if you want us to talk about them,
Speaker 1: links to articles and anything like that. Get all the
Speaker 1: information there. You can donate to the show. Show is growing,
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Speaker 3: It's because of y'all.
Speaker 1: Because of y'all, and don't be afraid to become a
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Speaker 1: ask that you forgive the quality of the audio. This week.
Speaker 1: I am zooming in Q of courses in the studio
Speaker 1: and we'll we'll be back to normal next week. But
Speaker 1: for this week, we had a lot to talk about
Speaker 1: and I didn't want to miss this week. So for
Speaker 1: now to zoom call again, forgive the audio, and be
Speaker 1: sure to follow us on social media at Civic Cipher
Speaker 1: And until next.
Speaker 3: Week, y'all pace Yeah, like we had to live.
Speaker 2: These brothers fabulous. When you travel.
Speaker 1: From like to.
Speaker 2: Like, move my mic back, you're like that strike head
Speaker 2: border behind him. The press mat bring it to you.
Speaker 2: As the streets the slash expand the slander