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Speaker 1: There Are No Girls on the Internet. As a production

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Speaker 1: of iHeartRadio and Unbossed Creative. I'm Bridget Todd and this

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Speaker 1: is There Are No Girls on the Internet. We talk

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Speaker 1: a lot on this podcast about the ethics around not

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Speaker 1: to mention the safety of social media, especially when it

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Speaker 1: involves the young people. And if you've spent any time

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Speaker 1: at all on platforms like Instagram or TikTok, if you've

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Speaker 1: no doubt seen parents who make their kids, even babies,

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Speaker 1: the focal point of their entire social media presence. And

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Speaker 1: sometimes this can be big business, generating a meaningful income

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Speaker 1: in brand deals and partnerships. But what happens to kids

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Speaker 1: when their parents use them for social media content. It's

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Speaker 1: actually kind of uncharted territory. There isn't even a ton

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Speaker 1: of research on the psychological impacts because it's so new,

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Speaker 1: And this is really one of those situations where technology,

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Speaker 1: what it makes possible, and the norms around it have

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Speaker 1: evolved more quickly than our research or laws have. But

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Speaker 1: here's what we do know. Young people who have had

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Speaker 1: this experience of being the focal point of a mommy

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Speaker 1: blog or social media account are speaking up, and now

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Speaker 1: new legislation aims to regulate how parents can legally use

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Speaker 1: and profit from their kids on social media. I joined

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Speaker 1: my friends Annie and Samantha over at the podcast stuff

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Speaker 1: Mom never told you to discuss, and honestly, I really,

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Speaker 1: really really want to know what y'all think, because, like

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Speaker 1: I said, this is totally new territory and none of

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Speaker 1: us really know how it will unpact young people. So

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Speaker 1: I'd love to hear your thoughts. Hey, this is Annie

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Speaker 1: and Samantha and welcome to Stephane. Never told your protection

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Speaker 1: of iHeartRadio, and today we are once again thrilled, so ecstatic,

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Speaker 1: joyful to be joined by the amazing world traveling bridget

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Speaker 1: I love the introductions you all give. They won't they

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Speaker 1: like truly warm my heart? Yes, well, you warm our

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Speaker 1: heart by being here, especially when you're doing so much

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Speaker 1: other stuff and you are coming at us from a

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Speaker 1: different location. Correct, that's right, I'm coming from you live.

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Speaker 1: Well not it won't be live when people hear this,

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Speaker 1: but live for right now from Mexico City, Mexico, where

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Speaker 1: it's nice and warm. Yeah, it's lovely here. It looks lovely.

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Speaker 1: You've got like a like healthy light globe coming in

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Speaker 1: behind me where we're staying is like has a lovely

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Speaker 1: view and like all the different monuments and stuff. And

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Speaker 1: then there's I didn't know that Mexico City is so mountainous,

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Speaker 1: so it's like a really it's kind of like being

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Speaker 1: in California, like a beautiful view, but then skyscrapers. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: ten out of ten can recommend. Yes, So you're having

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Speaker 1: a good time. Can you give us some highlights, some

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Speaker 1: food maybe that you've had. Oh? Yes, everything I've eaten

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Speaker 1: has been amazing, honestly, it's so one of the reasons

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Speaker 1: I wanted to come to Mexico City was because of

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Speaker 1: the food. I've been told that you could go to

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Speaker 1: like Michelin Star super bougie restaurant and get a delicious

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Speaker 1: meal in Mexico City if you wanted to, or just

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Speaker 1: get like, you know, cheap tacos on the street and

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Speaker 1: that would be delicious. And so I've been eating all

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Speaker 1: the things, lots of street tacos, which are great. Something

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Speaker 1: else I like is they take breakfast very seriously here,

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Speaker 1: which I am a breakfast person. I really like that.

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Speaker 1: So lots of good breakfasts items. Yeah, so far I've

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Speaker 1: been I've only been here since Saturday, so it hasn't

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Speaker 1: been that long, but looking forward to eating all the things. Yes, oh, say,

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Speaker 1: you've been there almost a week, so yeah, I think

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Speaker 1: you've gotten You've gotten some variety. I'm sure you're gonna

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Speaker 1: have a whole lot more. But that's I'm very jealous of,

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Speaker 1: like the breakfast, because I'm sure it's all I see delicious.

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Speaker 1: There's something about a savory, spicy breakfast. It does it

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Speaker 1: really doesn't want it. I'll be there. Save a couch

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Speaker 1: for me, save a couch, yes, yes, yes, as well.

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Speaker 1: We're looking forward to checking back in more food updates hopefully,

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Speaker 1: but yeah, thank you so much for taking the time

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Speaker 1: to join us from a different city when you haven't

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Speaker 1: been there that long. Oh, always a pleasure. And my

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Speaker 1: own podcast, There Are No Girls on the Internet is

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Speaker 1: on a hiatus, so I feel like, um, in this

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Speaker 1: time where I'm not podcasting, having an outlet wreck and

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Speaker 1: be like I saw this thing on the internet and

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Speaker 1: I have to talk about it with somebody. Has been

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Speaker 1: great for me, So thank you for having me. Yes, absolutely,

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Speaker 1: And the topic he bought today is fascinating and such

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Speaker 1: like a big one and one that we have discussed

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Speaker 1: a lot on the show. Recently because we've been kind

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Speaker 1: of on a tech streak on the show, and not

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Speaker 1: to like, not to put words into anyone else's mouths.

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Speaker 1: But I didn't grow up with social media. I got

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Speaker 1: it late college, I would say, was the earliest that

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Speaker 1: I got. Some friends of mine got it when I

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Speaker 1: was in high school, but I was kind of a

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Speaker 1: late bloomer, as they say. And I know it sounds

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Speaker 1: kind of like back in my day, but I'm I'm

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Speaker 1: pretty thankful for it, honestly in a lot of ways.

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Speaker 1: And this this kind of new phenomenon of all of

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Speaker 1: our lives, but especially in this outline bridget of children's

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Speaker 1: lives being on the internet is fairly new and in

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Speaker 1: a lot of ways kind of disturbed, a little unsettling.

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Speaker 1: I did want to ask before we get into this

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Speaker 1: conversation both of you, what was your kind of experience

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Speaker 1: with social media? And also, and you can pass on

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Speaker 1: this one because I know it's kind of a fraught subject,

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Speaker 1: does your family follow you on social media? Oh? What

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Speaker 1: a good question. Well, you know, we just before we

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Speaker 1: got on here talked about the fact that I am

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Speaker 1: from the generation of Beeper's and that the Internet was

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Speaker 1: not a thing until I almost got into college. Essentially,

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Speaker 1: like at the tail end of everything. The beeper was

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Speaker 1: due to my job. And at my first job out

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Speaker 1: of college, I was a child abuse investigator and those

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Speaker 1: systems were getting online, were you. I was still in

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Speaker 1: the time where we were doing everything by hand. Essentially,

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Speaker 1: that was where I am. The technology and social media

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Speaker 1: was fairly new for me. I think outside of college

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Speaker 1: had like my Space and Facebook. I dabbled that first,

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Speaker 1: and since then, I'm like, Okay, I like the social

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Speaker 1: media thing, but I am also very grateful, especially seeing

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Speaker 1: what my nieces and nephew have gone through with social media,

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Speaker 1: which they are gen z or so it's a whole

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Speaker 1: different level. I do have family that follow me. I

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Speaker 1: do not like it, and now a post less because

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Speaker 1: they follow me. Yeah. Say, we were talking about how

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Speaker 1: the first time I met you, Samantha, you this was

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Speaker 1: just a couple of years ago, you had a beeper

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Speaker 1: on your person the first time you met in person

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Speaker 1: years ago. Yeah, my relationship with social media, I Annie,

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Speaker 1: I'm kind of like you, Like, I am so glad

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Speaker 1: that I came of age in a time where social media, Like,

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Speaker 1: I'm glad that what I was doing on social media

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Speaker 1: or like the early days of my internet usage, it's

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Speaker 1: not still around behind me or at least Scott, I

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Speaker 1: hope not. So. I was using things like live journal

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Speaker 1: when I was in early high school, and I remember

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Speaker 1: I was in college when we first got Facebook, and

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Speaker 1: before Facebook, it was my Space, so like I was

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Speaker 1: like a scene kid and so college, like my Space

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Speaker 1: dominated my college experience. Like that was like how you

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Speaker 1: understood and kept up with my gross scenster hipster friends

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Speaker 1: in college. But it's funny because even though I was

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Speaker 1: dabbling with social media back then, it's so different than

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Speaker 1: it is today, Like it like it doesn't even feel

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Speaker 1: like the same thing. I guess it technically was social media,

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Speaker 1: but the implications were so different than I mean, back then,

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Speaker 1: you were spending hours making it so that when you

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Speaker 1: go to your MySpace page, it has like falling stars

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Speaker 1: and an AutoPlay panic at the disco song that nobody

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Speaker 1: can pause. But it was stuff like that, and it

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Speaker 1: was a social media but it was so different than

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Speaker 1: today that I should of whether or not my family

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Speaker 1: follows me on social media. I don't allow them to

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Speaker 1: follow me on social media. This could be a longer

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Speaker 1: conversation but I feel like I've kind of accepted that

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Speaker 1: my social media and digital presence is not actually who

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Speaker 1: I am in real life, and so you know, you

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Speaker 1: should really be thinking about, like when you post on

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Speaker 1: social media, like who is your audience? Who is this for?

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Speaker 1: And so who I actually am that the audience for

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Speaker 1: that is like my friends and family, people who knew

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Speaker 1: me in real life, my online persona, if you will.

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Speaker 1: That's not for my friends and family. That's where people

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Speaker 1: who are interested in my podcast, interested in my content,

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Speaker 1: that kind of thing. Like, And so I draw like

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Speaker 1: pretty clear distinction between the two. Like I almost think

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Speaker 1: of my social media or like digital self as like

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Speaker 1: my avatar for my real self. And I don't like

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Speaker 1: the idea of the two kind of the two worlds

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Speaker 1: kind of overlapping. So I try to keep a very

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Speaker 1: clear distinction between my friend in family irl and my

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Speaker 1: social media persona, which I don't see as my real self,

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Speaker 1: if that makes sense. I know I probably sound like

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Speaker 1: somebody who just took a huge bong rip. I swear

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Speaker 1: to god I have not. You know, that's pretty fascinating

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Speaker 1: because I think that says a lot to the reality

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Speaker 1: of social media. When you say it like that there

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Speaker 1: is a persona and there's this whole level of understanding

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Speaker 1: that there's a difference between the person and what's seen

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Speaker 1: on screen in different accounts, in different platforms. And I know,

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Speaker 1: as we're talking about the subject you're bringing which I

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Speaker 1: have a lot of opinions, So I'm really really excited

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Speaker 1: and a lot of concerns, just as being in child welfare,

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Speaker 1: but in that level of what we see and what

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Speaker 1: is posted and who has control of what is being posted. Absolutely,

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Speaker 1: it's it's so complicated, and I think it's complicated for

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Speaker 1: me as a grown woman in my thirties. I can

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Speaker 1: only manage how much more complicated it gets navigating this

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Speaker 1: as a young person. So I know that I came

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Speaker 1: on the show quite a while ago to talk about

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Speaker 1: Francis Hogan, the Facebook whistle blower, and what she what

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Speaker 1: her whistle blowing revealed about what Facebook and Instagram knows

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Speaker 1: about how social media negatively it impacts young girls, And

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Speaker 1: so that was a conversation that we had. But this

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Speaker 1: conversation is a little bit different because it really asks

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Speaker 1: what happens when it's not the you know, teen or

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Speaker 1: the child getting on social media themselves, what happens when

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Speaker 1: it's the mom or the parent who is kind of

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Speaker 1: forcing I use that word in quotes, forcing their child

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Speaker 1: to be part of their social media content, part of

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Speaker 1: their social media persona. And so on my podcast, there

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Speaker 1: are No Girls on the Internet. I did this fascinating

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Speaker 1: interview with this woman, Sarah Adams, and she runs the

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Speaker 1: TikTok account mom Uncharted. She told me that she calls

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Speaker 1: her account mom Uncharted because social media, if you think

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Speaker 1: about it, it's really like this uncharted territory for parenting,

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Speaker 1: and we really do not know how social media will

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Speaker 1: impact our kids. If you want to listen to the

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Speaker 1: whole interview, check out my podcast. It's It's she's a

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Speaker 1: really fascinating person, but her social media account is dedicated

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Speaker 1: to explorations of kind of mom influencing and like mom

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Speaker 1: run accounts and all the different ways that parents. It's honestly,

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Speaker 1: it's usually moms use their children for content on social media.

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Speaker 1: She told me that social media, you know, the dynamics

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Speaker 1: around it have changed so quickly, not that long ago.

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Speaker 1: If I would just say something like, oh, sharing your

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Speaker 1: kid on social media, you might think that means like

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Speaker 1: posting a cute picture on Facebook where you're great aunt

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Speaker 1: or your uncle or something might like it. Now, kids

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Speaker 1: who are not even really old enough to understand what

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Speaker 1: it means, not to mention, not old enough to consent

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Speaker 1: to it, can have their most intimate or sensitive or

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Speaker 1: embarrassing moments seen by millions of people on social media

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Speaker 1: platforms like TikTok. Right, as we've said in a lot

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Speaker 1: of these past episodes, this is sort of an iteration

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Speaker 1: of things we've seen before. This is going to also

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Speaker 1: kind of age me. But my parents wants in a

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Speaker 1: video of me as a kid to America's funny as

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Speaker 1: some videos, But that's like very different, Like they weren't

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Speaker 1: going to make money off of it, right, but what

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Speaker 1: were you doing in the video? Never you mind? I

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Speaker 1: was alternately like so enamored with a frog and then

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Speaker 1: terrified of the frog. It's just like it wasn't that funny,

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Speaker 1: but they thought it was very funny. But then it

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Speaker 1: became like you know, reality TV, and we've talked about

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Speaker 1: those things before as well, of like kind of the

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Speaker 1: dance Mom's situation. And then now it becomes, oh, what

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Speaker 1: we're seeing on social media where people are making money

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Speaker 1: off of this content of their kids, where the kids

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Speaker 1: can't consent to it, where it will probably never be

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Speaker 1: able to be fully erased if that's what they wanted,

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Speaker 1: If that's what they wanted, And then I know we're

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Speaker 1: going to talk about this later, but there's kind of

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Speaker 1: all these achy issues around like paris social relationships people

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Speaker 1: develop with these kids, and what do we do about that?

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Speaker 1: Like is that the platform? Is it the parent that's

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Speaker 1: posting this content? Like all of these questions that come

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Speaker 1: from from what it like one level can seem like, oh,

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Speaker 1: this is just a cute video of this kid falling

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Speaker 1: over something, But when you dig deeper than that, there's

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Speaker 1: just all of these other questions exactly and you put

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Speaker 1: it so well right, like just two level set. I

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Speaker 1: don't feel like every parent who shares content of their

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Speaker 1: kid is it's created equal here, Like there's a pretty

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Speaker 1: big difference between you know, sharing the occasional family vacation

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Speaker 1: video or like cute picture or whatever with your friends

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Speaker 1: on social media or even wider Internet. There's a difference

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Speaker 1: between that, which I think most people do. And it

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Speaker 1: is like fine and running a business that generates income

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Speaker 1: from relying on an audience of millions of people engaging

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Speaker 1: with your child, right, And there are so many questions

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Speaker 1: that you just kind of alluded to and reasons for

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Speaker 1: why we should sort of be asking questions about what

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Speaker 1: that is doing to our kids. One of the things

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Speaker 1: that I think is unique about social media and technology

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Speaker 1: in general is how quickly it moves. Things just move

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Speaker 1: really quickly. And I think that when it comes to

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Speaker 1: our kids and the impact on our kids, it would

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Speaker 1: behove us to not move really quickly, would behove us

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Speaker 1: to take a minute, pump the brakes and do some

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Speaker 1: real deep thought about how we want our children to

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Speaker 1: be showing up on social media and whether or not

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Speaker 1: it's actually good for them psychologically, emotionally, and whether or

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Speaker 1: not it's actually safe, like in the real you know,

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Speaker 1: in every implication of the word, like sometimes it is

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Speaker 1: not safe to share so much of your child on

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Speaker 1: social media with strangers. You know, there might be a

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Speaker 1: negative psychological impact on kids. I really wanted to find

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Speaker 1: I was like, oh, I'm going to get some good

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Speaker 1: media research on this. But as the uncharted part of

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Speaker 1: Sarah Adams's TikTok Names suggests, there kind of isn't a

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Speaker 1: ton of good research out there about the way that

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Speaker 1: being used for content by your parents would impact children,

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Speaker 1: and that's partly because it's just so new, Morgan sung

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Speaker 1: over at NBC. She's one of my favorite Internet reporters,

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Speaker 1: and she's really been following this beat of young people

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Speaker 1: who have been kind of turned into content by their parents.

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Speaker 1: So Morgan spoke to Lindsay Cooley, who was a licensed

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Speaker 1: clinical child psychologist, who said that because social media is

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Speaker 1: so relatively new, there is not really a lot of

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Speaker 1: clinical research on the long term effects of what she

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Speaker 1: calls growing up online. But lately, some kids who did

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Speaker 1: grow up with parents who shared every aspect of their

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Speaker 1: lives on social media are starting to speak out. Morgan

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Speaker 1: Song talked to Cam, whose mom used to make content

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Speaker 1: about their life. Cam said that their mom sharing every

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Speaker 1: single detail of their life had a real negative impact

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Speaker 1: on their mental health, and eventually they kind of stopped

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Speaker 1: being open with their mom about whatever they were going

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Speaker 1: through because they knew this is just going to wind

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Speaker 1: up being shared on the Internet with her followers. Cam

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Speaker 1: is immuno compromised and would spend a lot of time

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Speaker 1: ill or sick, and rather than like being there for them,

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Speaker 1: Cam says that their mom would just be filming these

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Speaker 1: filming that's for content. So at times in their life

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Speaker 1: where they were sick or stressed or going through something difficult,

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Speaker 1: their mom would be there with a camera in their face,

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Speaker 1: right right. And I think that's the way you phrased

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Speaker 1: it of like you know, using kids for content, of

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Speaker 1: like then you become something like a tool to get

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Speaker 1: clicks as opposed to like a child that needs care

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Speaker 1: and needs help and needs respects. And how damaging that

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Speaker 1: absolutely would be if you start to feel like, oh,

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Speaker 1: it's just like my tears are just a way for

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Speaker 1: you to film something and get people to watch it.

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Speaker 1: Like what what would that do to you? Like that's

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Speaker 1: very damaging? I think yeah. And it's actually as an adult,

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Speaker 1: like speaking of that sort of distinction between my social

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Speaker 1: media life or my digital life and my real life,

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Speaker 1: I don't really share a lot of my like real

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Speaker 1: life on social media, and in part it's because of

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Speaker 1: that tension that you just named. If I have something

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Speaker 1: in my life it is really truly meaningful to me,

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Speaker 1: I am really uncomfortable with the idea of that being content,

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Speaker 1: of that being something to generate clicks, of that being

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Speaker 1: something that's going to have a number attached to it, like, oh,

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Speaker 1: three hundred people liked that my grandfather passed away or whatever.

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Speaker 1: Like I'm I really am not comfortable with that personally,

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Speaker 1: and so I tend to keep big or meaningful real

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Speaker 1: life moments off of social media because of that, because

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Speaker 1: I don't like the idea, and I'm like, no shade

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Speaker 1: to anybody who doesn't feel that way. This is just

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Speaker 1: how it feels for me. It just doesn't feel right,

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Speaker 1: and I think for me it feels like it is

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Speaker 1: does a disservice to how meaningful those moments truly are

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Speaker 1: in my life. I don't want to see Mark Zuckerberg's

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Speaker 1: engagement metric on the back end of something that was

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Speaker 1: like deeply meaningful to me in my real life. That

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Speaker 1: seems to cheap, and that feels a little bit cheap

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Speaker 1: to me, I guess, yeah. And it is interesting because again,

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Speaker 1: we are adults, and if you want to post that

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Speaker 1: content and you're contenting to, yeah, you're an adult, so

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Speaker 1: you can consent to it. Then that's one thing. It

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Speaker 1: still feels strange because that's a whole separate podcast, but

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Speaker 1: kind of still like, oh, here's this sad thing I

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Speaker 1: have to like it, because otherwise they're gonna be mad.

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Speaker 1: I didn't like it, Like there's like this kind of

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Speaker 1: social dynamic around that feels odd because then you're like, well,

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Speaker 1: I'm liking this thing. That's really sad, but I find

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Speaker 1: don't do it. But I do think that, and please

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Speaker 1: don't come at me listeners, but I do think like

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Speaker 1: in the same way people sometimes use like pets or

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Speaker 1: puppies to be like, oh, look, how cute. Click on

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Speaker 1: this content here they are people are using their kids

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Speaker 1: like that, like see here's my life, here's this like

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Speaker 1: view of my life, and like, oh, what did my

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Speaker 1: kid do today to get these clicks? And if that

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Speaker 1: is like oh my kid is very sick and I

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Speaker 1: am going through a hard time. Please, you know, give

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Speaker 1: me these likes, give me this engagement, it does become

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Speaker 1: pretty murky, right. You know. It's interesting too as we

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Speaker 1: were talking about the levels, like you're talking about social

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Speaker 1: media etiquette, which has been a conversation like how how

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Speaker 1: do you go from this? But also how social media

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Speaker 1: has grown, Like when you think of the initial Facebook,

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Speaker 1: it was literally to connect with college friends for me,

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Speaker 1: or your past friends or high school friends that you

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Speaker 1: haven't seen. So you may be updating, so I might

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Speaker 1: get a picture of my old high school friend who

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Speaker 1: had a child, and oh, how cute. And it wasn't

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Speaker 1: necessarily about getting likes and looks. It's just, hey, I'm

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Speaker 1: updating you about my life, even to the point that

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Speaker 1: like wedding announcements, funeral announcements were done on Facebook. I'm

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Speaker 1: on Facebook still to remember people's birthdays and to get

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Speaker 1: an event advice, because a lot of people used to

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Speaker 1: use that as the way of getting invitations or birthday

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Speaker 1: parties or even sometimes weddings, which is really odd. But

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Speaker 1: the level that we have grown to is this genre

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Speaker 1: of TikTok. TikTok is not a thing you can do private,

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Speaker 1: and you can do small content, but it really is

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Speaker 1: a race to see what can go viral and what

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Speaker 1: can make money and what can get sponsorships. And it's

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Speaker 1: changed vastly from what an elder millennial like myself knew

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Speaker 1: it as to what it is today. But because people

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Speaker 1: are learning things so fast or getting access to things

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Speaker 1: so quickly, that etiquette has been kind of lost or

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Speaker 1: lost in translation perhaps, and it's become a point that

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Speaker 1: for the gen Z years, and I guess newer millennials.

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Speaker 1: What are those younger millennials. Baby millennials have seen this

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Speaker 1: as a norm and don't didn't realize until maybe just

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Speaker 1: recently as the younger generators who've been on social media

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Speaker 1: all of their lives since their birth have started to

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Speaker 1: call it out that this was normal and in competition

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Speaker 1: and a way of possibly making a living, and it's

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Speaker 1: just kind of made this whole culture completely different from

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Speaker 1: what it was even three years ago. Oh my god,

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Speaker 1: that's that's such an insightful point. And I do think

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Speaker 1: it is, like it is not just human nature. It

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Speaker 1: is a little bit, it's some of it, but it's

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Speaker 1: also exactly what you said I think. I think it's

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Speaker 1: algorithmically generated platforms where whatever is extreme or over the

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Speaker 1: top or whatever gets more attention, and platforms like TikTok

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Speaker 1: where that is the currency is like that, that's what

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Speaker 1: gets engagement, is that attention, and so you have people,

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Speaker 1: so that's that's like its own thing. When you add

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Speaker 1: in kids to the mix that it just kind of

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Speaker 1: has the potential to really be so fraught. Like I

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Speaker 1: remember it was some YouTuber I don't know her name

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Speaker 1: off hand, but she was kind of like quote unquote

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Speaker 1: canceled because she was known for being like a YouTuber

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Speaker 1: who showed her family and her family pet passed away,

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Speaker 1: and so she was making a YouTube video about how

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Speaker 1: her family pet passed away, and I guess she accidentally

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Speaker 1: uploaded the unedited footage where her child was very like,

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Speaker 1: genuinely authentically upset and crying, and the parent was, rather

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Speaker 1: than consoling this child, trying to tell the child to

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Speaker 1: contort his face so that it would be really like,

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Speaker 1: so it would be like a really extreme picture of

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Speaker 1: them crying, because she knew that if you use that

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Speaker 1: that image of an extreme close up of like a

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Speaker 1: distorted face who's experiencing extreme emotion, if you use that

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Speaker 1: for the thumbnail on YouTube, it gets more engagement. If

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Speaker 1: you ever look at YouTube videos and you're wondering, why

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Speaker 1: do all the thumbnails have people making really weird over

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Speaker 1: the top faces that nobody really makes in real life,

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Speaker 1: it's because they have figured out that the algorithm rewards

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Speaker 1: videos that include faces like that. And so while this

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Speaker 1: child is experiencing a genuine response emotionally to losing their pet,

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Speaker 1: mom is like, oh, make sure that you really give

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Speaker 1: me a good cry face so that my YouTube video

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Speaker 1: of back this performs well, and so I think it's

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Speaker 1: not just our nature as humans, it is also platforms

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Speaker 1: that are prompting people into behavior that they would not

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Speaker 1: otherwise probably do if not for the way that platforms

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Speaker 1: kind of encourage us to do this. Do that makes sense? No, yeah, absolutely,

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Speaker 1: I think again, like the squeaky will gets the oil

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Speaker 1: type of thing where you see the most dramatic or

431
00:24:59,040 --> 00:25:01,639
Speaker 1: the most over the top. Like one of the things

432
00:25:01,640 --> 00:25:05,480
Speaker 1: that's really thriving on TikTok is people calling out other

433
00:25:05,520 --> 00:25:07,800
Speaker 1: people for cheating or thinking they're cheating if you're so

434
00:25:07,920 --> 00:25:10,800
Speaker 1: and so I just saw your husband here talking to

435
00:25:10,920 --> 00:25:13,320
Speaker 1: this girl, like that's been a big thing and it

436
00:25:13,400 --> 00:25:15,879
Speaker 1: shouldn't be as before. Like there's a part of this

437
00:25:16,000 --> 00:25:18,400
Speaker 1: like yes, let the women know so they can get out,

438
00:25:18,680 --> 00:25:21,879
Speaker 1: but it's also purely for entertainment, for the numbers, for

439
00:25:21,920 --> 00:25:25,040
Speaker 1: the likes, and then as we see with these children,

440
00:25:25,920 --> 00:25:28,600
Speaker 1: more and more shocking things that people think is okay.

441
00:25:28,840 --> 00:25:31,719
Speaker 1: I know a YouTuber as you were talking about another

442
00:25:31,720 --> 00:25:34,080
Speaker 1: YouTuber family, we talked about this recently. Actually in one

443
00:25:34,119 --> 00:25:36,639
Speaker 1: of the episodes you came on, the couple adopted the

444
00:25:36,760 --> 00:25:39,480
Speaker 1: child just for the sake of saying we're good people

445
00:25:39,480 --> 00:25:42,000
Speaker 1: and adopted this child. Come on this journey with us.

446
00:25:42,080 --> 00:25:44,200
Speaker 1: And then all of a sudden, the child disappeared, and everybody, look,

447
00:25:44,240 --> 00:25:46,439
Speaker 1: what the hell just happened? What did you do to

448
00:25:46,480 --> 00:25:49,200
Speaker 1: this child? And it's the same way as we've seen

449
00:25:49,640 --> 00:25:53,800
Speaker 1: several like the couple who did the experiment with their

450
00:25:53,920 --> 00:25:57,640
Speaker 1: two young boys saying, hey, we're gonna say that one

451
00:25:57,680 --> 00:26:00,600
Speaker 1: of your brothers died, your pretend brother died. Just go

452
00:26:00,680 --> 00:26:02,880
Speaker 1: along with it so we can make money. And this

453
00:26:02,960 --> 00:26:07,320
Speaker 1: was a whole experiment on the kids for entertainment. The

454
00:26:07,359 --> 00:26:09,280
Speaker 1: audience is supposed to know that this is a joke.

455
00:26:09,480 --> 00:26:12,119
Speaker 1: We're just testing the kids. Let's see how the kids react.

456
00:26:12,359 --> 00:26:16,200
Speaker 1: And it was so traumatizing to watch these kids pretending

457
00:26:16,280 --> 00:26:19,320
Speaker 1: like they're lying, but questioning why they're doing this, and

458
00:26:19,359 --> 00:26:22,640
Speaker 1: then having it filmed and everybody saying, what are you doing?

459
00:26:22,680 --> 00:26:26,000
Speaker 1: This is so mentally damaging to your child. But you're

460
00:26:26,040 --> 00:26:29,040
Speaker 1: doing this for the sake of TikTok to show what

461
00:26:29,520 --> 00:26:32,880
Speaker 1: So the example that you brought up earlier, the family,

462
00:26:33,080 --> 00:26:37,080
Speaker 1: the YouTube family that adopted a child, there they're gonna

463
00:26:37,080 --> 00:26:39,840
Speaker 1: we're gonna return to them. They make a little surprised

464
00:26:39,920 --> 00:26:43,679
Speaker 1: guest appearance in this episode. I think you're right. I

465
00:26:43,720 --> 00:26:46,840
Speaker 1: think that there is. I honestly think it goes back

466
00:26:46,840 --> 00:26:49,000
Speaker 1: to something that you said, Sam. I think it's a

467
00:26:49,000 --> 00:26:53,600
Speaker 1: situation where because the Internet has moved so quickly, like

468
00:26:53,640 --> 00:26:58,720
Speaker 1: from where it was when I was updating my MySpace

469
00:26:58,800 --> 00:27:01,720
Speaker 1: profile in my dorm room in college to today, that

470
00:27:01,880 --> 00:27:04,080
Speaker 1: wasn't that long I'm old, but I'm not that old, right,

471
00:27:04,119 --> 00:27:07,320
Speaker 1: that wasn't that long ago, And where we were then

472
00:27:07,400 --> 00:27:09,960
Speaker 1: and where we are now are completely different. So it's

473
00:27:10,000 --> 00:27:12,720
Speaker 1: moved so quickly, and I think it's a situation where

474
00:27:13,520 --> 00:27:17,480
Speaker 1: not like the cultural norms around what is and it's

475
00:27:17,520 --> 00:27:22,040
Speaker 1: not acceptable, healthy, okay to do a good idea, to

476
00:27:22,080 --> 00:27:26,360
Speaker 1: do whatever, those have not kept up with how quickly

477
00:27:26,400 --> 00:27:30,080
Speaker 1: the technology has moved, And so we now can film

478
00:27:30,520 --> 00:27:33,080
Speaker 1: our kids inside of our house and quickly uploaded to

479
00:27:33,080 --> 00:27:36,000
Speaker 1: TikTok or YouTube and get a million views. Our society

480
00:27:36,000 --> 00:27:38,159
Speaker 1: has perhaps not progressed to a place where it's like

481
00:27:38,359 --> 00:27:41,159
Speaker 1: but should we? And I would argue that our laws

482
00:27:41,320 --> 00:27:43,359
Speaker 1: have also not kept up with that, And so I

483
00:27:43,400 --> 00:27:46,359
Speaker 1: do think there's something about the speed with which the

484
00:27:46,400 --> 00:27:49,399
Speaker 1: Internet has changed become so ubiquitous in our lives that

485
00:27:49,520 --> 00:27:53,479
Speaker 1: we have not pumped the brakes and allowed for cultural norms,

486
00:27:53,480 --> 00:27:56,520
Speaker 1: societal norms, the law to all catch up to where

487
00:27:56,520 --> 00:27:59,640
Speaker 1: we are right now, and especially the fact that kids

488
00:27:59,680 --> 00:28:03,560
Speaker 1: are we absolutely should be taking the time to be

489
00:28:03,600 --> 00:28:07,240
Speaker 1: a little bit more introspective and slow down a little bit,

490
00:28:07,400 --> 00:28:10,159
Speaker 1: to have a cultural reset about what is it is

491
00:28:10,160 --> 00:28:14,560
Speaker 1: not okay when it comes to filming children for strangers online, right,

492
00:28:14,800 --> 00:28:16,760
Speaker 1: And it kind of always reminds me of the thing

493
00:28:17,119 --> 00:28:20,479
Speaker 1: that I had to tell kids as Snapchat and all

494
00:28:20,480 --> 00:28:23,760
Speaker 1: those different things were existing, again reminding them you may

495
00:28:23,840 --> 00:28:25,919
Speaker 1: think it's not on the internet, but it's on the internet,

496
00:28:25,960 --> 00:28:29,560
Speaker 1: so just as a reminder. But also the government is

497
00:28:29,840 --> 00:28:34,040
Speaker 1: very quick to use things like this to go after

498
00:28:34,200 --> 00:28:36,919
Speaker 1: the marginalists communities, and that's a whole different conversation, I know,

499
00:28:37,359 --> 00:28:40,200
Speaker 1: but having to try to explain to both parents and

500
00:28:40,280 --> 00:28:43,479
Speaker 1: to children like, hey, you posting this picture of your

501
00:28:43,520 --> 00:28:46,960
Speaker 1: half naked child actually can be considered child porn and

502
00:28:47,040 --> 00:28:49,320
Speaker 1: you can be arrested on a felony and then being

503
00:28:49,320 --> 00:28:52,120
Speaker 1: completely shocked, and then having also letting the kids know, hey,

504
00:28:52,360 --> 00:28:54,560
Speaker 1: you just sending it yourself, even though you're doing it

505
00:28:54,600 --> 00:28:57,560
Speaker 1: with your quote unquote consent as a minder, you don't

506
00:28:57,560 --> 00:29:01,240
Speaker 1: have the ability to consent, but is only going after

507
00:29:01,280 --> 00:29:05,320
Speaker 1: specific things and specific morality rather than what the root

508
00:29:05,360 --> 00:29:08,520
Speaker 1: of the problem is with the social media. Oh my god,

509
00:29:08,560 --> 00:29:11,120
Speaker 1: same I. This is kind of a non sequitur I had,

510
00:29:11,800 --> 00:29:14,880
Speaker 1: but the most like weird conversation with a stranger on

511
00:29:14,960 --> 00:29:18,240
Speaker 1: TikTok it was, for whatever reason, I get surfaced a

512
00:29:18,320 --> 00:29:22,080
Speaker 1: lot of content about hallucinogens, like hallucinogens drugs. TikTok thinks

513
00:29:22,080 --> 00:29:24,480
Speaker 1: I'm very interested in like expanding my mind. And there

514
00:29:24,560 --> 00:29:26,560
Speaker 1: was a woman who is a woman look like a

515
00:29:26,600 --> 00:29:29,560
Speaker 1: woman of color to me talking about how she enjoys

516
00:29:29,680 --> 00:29:31,960
Speaker 1: using mushrooms and it's like, oh, like, come follow me

517
00:29:32,000 --> 00:29:34,080
Speaker 1: from my beautiful day on mushrooms. And it did look

518
00:29:34,080 --> 00:29:36,000
Speaker 1: like a beautiful day. Like she's at the beach, she's

519
00:29:36,040 --> 00:29:40,080
Speaker 1: like going for a swim. Looks fantastic. Then she goes

520
00:29:40,160 --> 00:29:43,480
Speaker 1: to her car and it's like she's like, oh, I

521
00:29:43,480 --> 00:29:45,719
Speaker 1: had to drive home. And I was like, honey, this

522
00:29:45,800 --> 00:29:48,480
Speaker 1: is a video. You're a woman of color, and this

523
00:29:48,520 --> 00:29:51,080
Speaker 1: is a video of you admitting to a crime. Like

524
00:29:51,560 --> 00:29:54,840
Speaker 1: this is not me judging you or me saying this,

525
00:29:55,000 --> 00:29:58,760
Speaker 1: but it is me knowing that, Like I've seen people.

526
00:29:59,080 --> 00:30:02,320
Speaker 1: I've seen people who are going through like contentious marital

527
00:30:02,360 --> 00:30:05,800
Speaker 1: situations to get CPS called on them. Like I've heard

528
00:30:05,840 --> 00:30:08,640
Speaker 1: horror stories of people who just uploaded stuff to the

529
00:30:08,640 --> 00:30:11,760
Speaker 1: Internet without thinking about it, and then they lost a job,

530
00:30:11,800 --> 00:30:14,640
Speaker 1: they lost a scholarship, the courts got involved, and somebody

531
00:30:14,680 --> 00:30:17,640
Speaker 1: else was like, why is that the first thing that

532
00:30:17,680 --> 00:30:19,560
Speaker 1: you jumped to when I was like, I understand that,

533
00:30:19,600 --> 00:30:22,720
Speaker 1: Like it sucks, and I like, I don't want to

534
00:30:22,760 --> 00:30:24,200
Speaker 1: be the person to have to tell you this and

535
00:30:24,320 --> 00:30:26,680
Speaker 1: like rain out of your parade from your nice day

536
00:30:26,720 --> 00:30:28,480
Speaker 1: that you were trying to show what the internet, But

537
00:30:28,960 --> 00:30:31,640
Speaker 1: I want to be the person that tells you the truth.

538
00:30:32,000 --> 00:30:34,920
Speaker 1: And the truth is that especially for people of color, you,

539
00:30:35,080 --> 00:30:36,800
Speaker 1: I mean, nobody should have be admitting to a crime

540
00:30:36,800 --> 00:30:39,719
Speaker 1: on video. That that's just like end that there. Do

541
00:30:39,760 --> 00:30:42,120
Speaker 1: what you're gonna do if you're not hurting anybody whatever,

542
00:30:42,200 --> 00:30:46,040
Speaker 1: but like be smart about it, Like, don't don't have

543
00:30:46,200 --> 00:30:50,840
Speaker 1: this new era of social media where we don't necessarily

544
00:30:51,040 --> 00:30:57,160
Speaker 1: have the cultural norms firmly established anymore, the guardrails, if

545
00:30:57,160 --> 00:30:59,560
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. Don't let that false feeling

546
00:30:59,560 --> 00:31:02,080
Speaker 1: of freedom make you think that we actually do have

547
00:31:02,200 --> 00:31:05,320
Speaker 1: freedom online, especially if you're a marginalized I would that

548
00:31:05,440 --> 00:31:07,920
Speaker 1: is just like a rule of don't admit to crimes

549
00:31:07,920 --> 00:31:10,680
Speaker 1: on the Internet. That's just like, I don't care how

550
00:31:10,760 --> 00:31:13,280
Speaker 1: much engagement it gets you. That's just an overall But

551
00:31:13,560 --> 00:31:15,360
Speaker 1: as you're saying for the person who's like, why do

552
00:31:15,400 --> 00:31:17,440
Speaker 1: you have to go to that like pessimistic view? And

553
00:31:17,560 --> 00:31:20,200
Speaker 1: I know I'm always joking about the fact that I'm pessimistic,

554
00:31:20,440 --> 00:31:22,920
Speaker 1: but the reality is it's really privileged for someone to

555
00:31:22,960 --> 00:31:25,320
Speaker 1: not have to even worry about it. That's the problem.

556
00:31:25,520 --> 00:31:28,040
Speaker 1: The problem about this is I have been on this

557
00:31:28,120 --> 00:31:31,320
Speaker 1: side of where I see police officers, I see court

558
00:31:31,400 --> 00:31:35,400
Speaker 1: systems actually go after specific individuals because they've profiled them

559
00:31:35,600 --> 00:31:38,479
Speaker 1: from jump and then find the social media accounts and

560
00:31:38,560 --> 00:31:42,560
Speaker 1: use every bit they can from that because they're profiling

561
00:31:42,600 --> 00:31:44,800
Speaker 1: once again. And that I know we use that as

562
00:31:44,840 --> 00:31:48,200
Speaker 1: generalized terms and the bigger picture, but it happens on

563
00:31:48,200 --> 00:31:50,280
Speaker 1: social media as well. As well as the fact that

564
00:31:50,320 --> 00:31:52,560
Speaker 1: there was a perfect example of this dude who's really big,

565
00:31:52,560 --> 00:31:55,400
Speaker 1: TikToker got really big because he got he was funny.

566
00:31:55,440 --> 00:31:58,640
Speaker 1: Everybody loved him. He thought he was just hilarious. He

567
00:31:58,720 --> 00:32:01,800
Speaker 1: just cuts into a video and then tells a random

568
00:32:01,840 --> 00:32:05,880
Speaker 1: fact that was his whole thing, And then people found

569
00:32:05,880 --> 00:32:10,479
Speaker 1: and dug into his earlier post where he brings his child,

570
00:32:10,720 --> 00:32:14,320
Speaker 1: where the child says all this homophobic and racist comments,

571
00:32:14,480 --> 00:32:18,520
Speaker 1: which obviously was taught by him, and he's encouraging it,

572
00:32:18,680 --> 00:32:21,560
Speaker 1: and everybody's getting pissed at, both the child and him,

573
00:32:21,760 --> 00:32:23,840
Speaker 1: and this is what he's done, not realizing that he

574
00:32:23,880 --> 00:32:26,239
Speaker 1: was going to blow up. But that's the consequence. It's like,

575
00:32:26,280 --> 00:32:29,120
Speaker 1: not only have you ruined your own reputation, you've already

576
00:32:29,200 --> 00:32:32,080
Speaker 1: ruined your child's. Oh my god. And it's like, I

577
00:32:32,080 --> 00:32:36,240
Speaker 1: could only see that as like a parenting fail. If

578
00:32:36,280 --> 00:32:41,040
Speaker 1: your kid heard you using slurs and repeated that and

579
00:32:41,120 --> 00:32:44,880
Speaker 1: you knew that was behavior that they were exhibiting, that

580
00:32:45,120 --> 00:32:48,280
Speaker 1: is one thing. Then being like I should film this

581
00:32:48,760 --> 00:32:53,800
Speaker 1: for the Internet because it's funny, that is I guess

582
00:32:53,800 --> 00:32:55,760
Speaker 1: that's what I'm saying. I'm not being very eloquent about it,

583
00:32:55,880 --> 00:32:57,800
Speaker 1: but I do think that we are in this point

584
00:32:57,920 --> 00:33:02,719
Speaker 1: where I don't know that people universally understand that not

585
00:33:02,800 --> 00:33:05,200
Speaker 1: every moment is okay to be shared on the Internet.

586
00:33:05,440 --> 00:33:08,280
Speaker 1: And you know, I would hope for that parent in

587
00:33:08,320 --> 00:33:10,000
Speaker 1: that situation to be like, we need to have a

588
00:33:10,040 --> 00:33:12,200
Speaker 1: conversation about what is and it's not okay to say.

589
00:33:12,680 --> 00:33:14,640
Speaker 1: The fact that this parent was like, oh, get the camera,

590
00:33:14,920 --> 00:33:16,800
Speaker 1: this is gonna be great, put this on the internet.

591
00:33:16,960 --> 00:33:18,680
Speaker 1: That really tells me that I think that we are

592
00:33:18,760 --> 00:33:22,400
Speaker 1: in a place where perhaps people are not asking the

593
00:33:22,480 --> 00:33:25,200
Speaker 1: question of should I be filming this? What are the consequences?

594
00:33:25,240 --> 00:33:27,360
Speaker 1: This is is gonna be good for my kid? Like, I

595
00:33:27,400 --> 00:33:28,720
Speaker 1: think that we just need to have a little bit

596
00:33:28,720 --> 00:33:31,560
Speaker 1: more introspection about what we share to the internet for

597
00:33:31,680 --> 00:33:35,680
Speaker 1: strangers and absolutely, and again it is this layer of

598
00:33:36,040 --> 00:33:39,880
Speaker 1: safety that people think, because they don't see people's reaction,

599
00:33:40,040 --> 00:33:41,719
Speaker 1: they just record it and move on with their day

600
00:33:41,800 --> 00:33:44,840
Speaker 1: until the consequences happened, that they're safe to do this.

601
00:33:44,960 --> 00:33:47,760
Speaker 1: And maybe they're thinking they're being relatable or maybe they're

602
00:33:47,760 --> 00:33:50,720
Speaker 1: trauma bonding with people, which is in itself like why

603
00:33:50,760 --> 00:33:53,320
Speaker 1: are you doing this and it's doing at the expense

604
00:33:53,320 --> 00:33:55,640
Speaker 1: of a child, thinking maybe I don't know if it's

605
00:33:55,720 --> 00:33:58,480
Speaker 1: legitimate or if it's a rue saying that I'm just

606
00:33:58,520 --> 00:34:00,680
Speaker 1: trying to teach you. I'm just trying to share our

607
00:34:01,200 --> 00:34:04,000
Speaker 1: you know, our downfalls and I'm trying to be real,

608
00:34:04,400 --> 00:34:07,960
Speaker 1: but it's again at the expense of a child's emotions

609
00:34:08,040 --> 00:34:10,960
Speaker 1: and trauma. So that exact thing is the reason why

610
00:34:11,000 --> 00:34:13,319
Speaker 1: I wanted to talk about this, because I had a

611
00:34:13,360 --> 00:34:16,279
Speaker 1: moment where I saw this video on TikTok, and I

612
00:34:16,320 --> 00:34:19,719
Speaker 1: have to say, like, I was personally triggered by this,

613
00:34:19,719 --> 00:34:22,920
Speaker 1: this TikTok that I saw, And it was this video

614
00:34:23,160 --> 00:34:28,480
Speaker 1: of a black mom who was washing her black child's

615
00:34:28,680 --> 00:34:31,400
Speaker 1: like braids, right, and so this so she had a

616
00:34:31,440 --> 00:34:34,400
Speaker 1: camera setup where she was holding her child over the

617
00:34:34,440 --> 00:34:37,000
Speaker 1: sink to like scrub her scale and this little girl

618
00:34:37,160 --> 00:34:39,279
Speaker 1: was like maybe she's like seven or eight. She is

619
00:34:39,719 --> 00:34:43,160
Speaker 1: bawling her eyes out, she is so upset. Right, And

620
00:34:43,200 --> 00:34:45,200
Speaker 1: so I'm a black woman. I have braids now. I

621
00:34:45,280 --> 00:34:47,719
Speaker 1: have braids for most of my life when I was

622
00:34:47,760 --> 00:34:52,000
Speaker 1: a kid, Like a lot of black women, my hair

623
00:34:52,320 --> 00:34:54,680
Speaker 1: has been something that is like a complicated thing, like

624
00:34:54,719 --> 00:34:57,160
Speaker 1: a lot of black women have complicated feelings about their hair.

625
00:34:57,480 --> 00:35:00,840
Speaker 1: And I have many a memory of cr while getting

626
00:35:00,880 --> 00:35:03,799
Speaker 1: my hair done, crying while getting my braids taken, you know,

627
00:35:03,800 --> 00:35:07,360
Speaker 1: taken out or put in, And I remember quite viscerally

628
00:35:08,080 --> 00:35:11,959
Speaker 1: what a vulnerable position that I was in in those times.

629
00:35:11,960 --> 00:35:14,399
Speaker 1: I'm not saying that like moms shouldn't do their kids

630
00:35:14,400 --> 00:35:16,160
Speaker 1: hair if they cry, but I'm saying I remember that

631
00:35:16,200 --> 00:35:19,200
Speaker 1: being an emotional experience for me that I was very

632
00:35:19,239 --> 00:35:21,200
Speaker 1: vulnerable in. And I think a lot of black women

633
00:35:21,239 --> 00:35:24,440
Speaker 1: know what I'm talking about. And so this child is

634
00:35:24,760 --> 00:35:27,759
Speaker 1: sobbing while this, while this is happening, the mom is

635
00:35:27,800 --> 00:35:30,600
Speaker 1: like everybody, millions of people that are going to see

636
00:35:30,600 --> 00:35:32,920
Speaker 1: how you're acting right now. And the little kid is like,

637
00:35:32,960 --> 00:35:34,600
Speaker 1: what do you mean? And she's like, I'm filming this,

638
00:35:34,800 --> 00:35:36,680
Speaker 1: And a little girl starts crying even more, and she's like,

639
00:35:36,719 --> 00:35:38,680
Speaker 1: why are you filming this? And her mom is like,

640
00:35:39,000 --> 00:35:41,879
Speaker 1: I'm filming it for a hair tutorial. And even though

641
00:35:41,920 --> 00:35:43,919
Speaker 1: this is a little kid, she's pretty she's pretty sharp.

642
00:35:44,000 --> 00:35:46,560
Speaker 1: She says, why don't you film a hair tutorial on

643
00:35:46,640 --> 00:35:50,000
Speaker 1: your own head? And it just broke my like something

644
00:35:50,080 --> 00:35:52,360
Speaker 1: something about watching that video of like I remember what

645
00:35:52,440 --> 00:35:55,520
Speaker 1: it was like to be in distress. Now. I'm not

646
00:35:55,600 --> 00:35:58,200
Speaker 1: saying that was like a traumatic experience for her. Kids

647
00:35:58,239 --> 00:36:00,960
Speaker 1: cry for all kinds of reasons all the time, right,

648
00:36:01,000 --> 00:36:03,440
Speaker 1: we were all kids once, we remember, but she's clearly

649
00:36:03,520 --> 00:36:06,719
Speaker 1: in distress even if it's temporary distress. And so her

650
00:36:06,800 --> 00:36:10,000
Speaker 1: mom talking to the camera in this moment and being

651
00:36:10,040 --> 00:36:12,080
Speaker 1: like millions of people are going to see this in

652
00:36:12,120 --> 00:36:15,840
Speaker 1: the moment really just made me sad. And the mom

653
00:36:15,920 --> 00:36:18,759
Speaker 1: was saying like, oh, well, like in the comments of

654
00:36:18,800 --> 00:36:21,640
Speaker 1: this TikTok, she was saying like, well, I want to

655
00:36:21,640 --> 00:36:24,520
Speaker 1: show other black moms out there how you deal with

656
00:36:24,560 --> 00:36:27,319
Speaker 1: a stressful hair washed day or and other people who

657
00:36:27,360 --> 00:36:29,680
Speaker 1: were supporting her were saying like, maybe she's looking for

658
00:36:29,719 --> 00:36:32,200
Speaker 1: a community of moms and wants to build community in

659
00:36:32,239 --> 00:36:35,799
Speaker 1: solidary young line. I could sort of see that, but ultimately,

660
00:36:36,640 --> 00:36:39,239
Speaker 1: the number one responsibility of a parent should be to

661
00:36:39,280 --> 00:36:43,440
Speaker 1: create a safe environment for your kid and all of

662
00:36:43,440 --> 00:36:46,400
Speaker 1: this other stuff like I can understand maybe sort of

663
00:36:46,480 --> 00:36:49,360
Speaker 1: kind of wanting to demonstrate like, oh here's how I

664
00:36:49,480 --> 00:36:51,839
Speaker 1: as a black mom gets through a tough hair washing day,

665
00:36:52,080 --> 00:36:56,360
Speaker 1: But those are strangers. Your responsibility when your child is

666
00:36:56,360 --> 00:36:59,120
Speaker 1: in distress is to provide a safe environment for that child.

667
00:36:59,360 --> 00:37:03,360
Speaker 1: Who care about these these strangers in your head? But

668
00:37:03,440 --> 00:37:07,320
Speaker 1: you are thinking about entertaining or whatever via this content,

669
00:37:07,520 --> 00:37:09,200
Speaker 1: And that's kind of what I'm talking about, Like, how

670
00:37:09,320 --> 00:37:12,160
Speaker 1: we reached a point where folks have kind of forgotten

671
00:37:12,239 --> 00:37:16,520
Speaker 1: that your number one responsibility is to your child and

672
00:37:16,600 --> 00:37:19,600
Speaker 1: to create a safe environment for that child, even if

673
00:37:19,640 --> 00:37:23,480
Speaker 1: that means that this community of fictional moms looking for

674
00:37:23,560 --> 00:37:39,279
Speaker 1: support might have to get at someplace else, right, And

675
00:37:39,480 --> 00:37:42,680
Speaker 1: I know, as you said at the beginning, there hasn't

676
00:37:42,680 --> 00:37:45,520
Speaker 1: been a lot of research in this. I know I

677
00:37:45,560 --> 00:37:49,239
Speaker 1: read one article about how things like this does a

678
00:37:49,360 --> 00:37:52,240
Speaker 1: road like the trust a kid has and their parents,

679
00:37:52,440 --> 00:37:56,080
Speaker 1: because if it's like they can kind of sense, oh, well,

680
00:37:56,080 --> 00:37:57,680
Speaker 1: they're doing this for some other reason, or there might

681
00:37:57,680 --> 00:37:59,200
Speaker 1: be a trick behind this, or they might be trying

682
00:37:59,200 --> 00:38:02,440
Speaker 1: to manipulate a motion out of me for someone else.

683
00:38:03,000 --> 00:38:05,040
Speaker 1: But also something that I wanted to go back to

684
00:38:05,280 --> 00:38:07,520
Speaker 1: that you wrote about was this idea of feeling like

685
00:38:07,640 --> 00:38:12,400
Speaker 1: there's an invisible audience. Yeah, this I found miss fascinating.

686
00:38:12,400 --> 00:38:15,239
Speaker 1: So Lindsay Cooley, the licensed clinical child psychologist that spoke

687
00:38:15,280 --> 00:38:18,719
Speaker 1: Tom Morgan sung at NBC. Coolly said that adults whose

688
00:38:18,760 --> 00:38:21,520
Speaker 1: formative years were shared online may never grow out of

689
00:38:21,520 --> 00:38:26,120
Speaker 1: experiencing what she described as the invisible audience. Basically, we've

690
00:38:26,160 --> 00:38:28,799
Speaker 1: all kind of probably felt that the invisible audience is

691
00:38:28,840 --> 00:38:32,160
Speaker 1: this kind of adolescent ideal that everybody is paying attention

692
00:38:32,200 --> 00:38:35,200
Speaker 1: to you and like scrutinizing your behavior at all times. Now,

693
00:38:35,320 --> 00:38:37,560
Speaker 1: most of us probably felt that way at one time

694
00:38:37,640 --> 00:38:40,239
Speaker 1: or another in our lives, but we usually grow out

695
00:38:40,280 --> 00:38:43,800
Speaker 1: of it as we mature and become more self aware

696
00:38:43,840 --> 00:38:47,239
Speaker 1: and get a deeper sense of self. Lindsay Cooley says

697
00:38:47,280 --> 00:38:50,480
Speaker 1: that kids who are always being filmed for content might

698
00:38:50,520 --> 00:38:53,720
Speaker 1: have a harder time breaking out of that mindset because

699
00:38:53,880 --> 00:38:56,480
Speaker 1: they essentially grew up on a stage. They grew up

700
00:38:56,880 --> 00:38:59,080
Speaker 1: knowing that they had to perform and turn it on

701
00:38:59,120 --> 00:39:02,680
Speaker 1: and so that is your everyday lived experience. You might

702
00:39:02,719 --> 00:39:05,480
Speaker 1: have a much harder time growing out of that phase

703
00:39:05,480 --> 00:39:07,520
Speaker 1: when you think that everybody's looking at you, when you

704
00:39:07,520 --> 00:39:10,239
Speaker 1: are feeling like everybody is scrutinizing you and feeling like

705
00:39:10,280 --> 00:39:12,520
Speaker 1: you're being perceived with eyes on you all the time.

706
00:39:12,760 --> 00:39:15,560
Speaker 1: And really I can kind of understand that, like I

707
00:39:15,560 --> 00:39:19,960
Speaker 1: can understand why four kids who are constantly on the

708
00:39:20,040 --> 00:39:22,279
Speaker 1: stage of the Internet, why that would then be a

709
00:39:22,320 --> 00:39:25,440
Speaker 1: hard thing to kind of break out of. Yeah, and

710
00:39:25,480 --> 00:39:29,279
Speaker 1: that's another issue here is the issue of privacy. And

711
00:39:29,320 --> 00:39:33,640
Speaker 1: as we also mentioned at the top, these parasocial relationships

712
00:39:34,239 --> 00:39:40,480
Speaker 1: that people can form with children who again probably never

713
00:39:40,560 --> 00:39:44,719
Speaker 1: consented to any of this, right, Yeah, that's something that

714
00:39:44,760 --> 00:39:49,080
Speaker 1: I find really interesting, I guess I'll say, is this

715
00:39:49,400 --> 00:39:52,480
Speaker 1: the way that adults on the internet can form these

716
00:39:52,520 --> 00:39:55,640
Speaker 1: parasocial relationships with kids they don't even know, you know,

717
00:39:55,680 --> 00:39:57,560
Speaker 1: And I'm the one ahead. I kind of get it, right,

718
00:39:57,560 --> 00:40:01,080
Speaker 1: Like they've been let in on these very intimate relationships

719
00:40:01,080 --> 00:40:04,560
Speaker 1: with these kids, and so I can understand forming a bond, right,

720
00:40:04,840 --> 00:40:07,799
Speaker 1: and how that line of what is it is not

721
00:40:07,880 --> 00:40:10,799
Speaker 1: appropriate and what you are and are not entitled to

722
00:40:11,120 --> 00:40:14,040
Speaker 1: can become blurred. There was this mom influencer on TikTok

723
00:40:14,080 --> 00:40:16,920
Speaker 1: recently who decided that she was going to stop showing

724
00:40:16,920 --> 00:40:20,920
Speaker 1: her kids on social media after sort of providing quite

725
00:40:20,960 --> 00:40:23,680
Speaker 1: a bit of content solely about her kids. And her

726
00:40:23,719 --> 00:40:26,400
Speaker 1: followers were upset, But they weren't just like they weren't

727
00:40:26,400 --> 00:40:28,839
Speaker 1: like cool as your kids do what you feel as best.

728
00:40:29,080 --> 00:40:31,520
Speaker 1: They were not happy about that, and they felt really

729
00:40:31,680 --> 00:40:34,680
Speaker 1: entitled to see and interact with these kids they don't

730
00:40:34,680 --> 00:40:36,920
Speaker 1: even know, right, And so I remember this was around

731
00:40:36,960 --> 00:40:39,880
Speaker 1: Christmas time when this influencer announced that, and one of

732
00:40:39,920 --> 00:40:42,719
Speaker 1: her followers made a video that was like, can we

733
00:40:42,760 --> 00:40:45,279
Speaker 1: at least see the children for Christmas, like I just

734
00:40:45,320 --> 00:40:48,920
Speaker 1: want to see them for Christmas, and how they could

735
00:40:48,920 --> 00:40:51,799
Speaker 1: not accept that they were not going to be able

736
00:40:51,840 --> 00:40:53,799
Speaker 1: to see and interact with kids that they didn't know.

737
00:40:54,080 --> 00:40:56,560
Speaker 1: And it might I don't feel like all of these

738
00:40:56,560 --> 00:40:59,520
Speaker 1: people have bad intentions or anything, but it is absolutely

739
00:40:59,560 --> 00:41:03,120
Speaker 1: not for an adult stranger to feel entitled to see

740
00:41:03,239 --> 00:41:06,920
Speaker 1: kids that they don't even know. Like, that's just not healthy,

741
00:41:06,960 --> 00:41:08,960
Speaker 1: you know. Of course I have to go real dark

742
00:41:09,000 --> 00:41:11,319
Speaker 1: with it, as you're being very kind and be like

743
00:41:11,360 --> 00:41:13,520
Speaker 1: these are not They just really like these kids and

744
00:41:13,560 --> 00:41:17,840
Speaker 1: they think the relationship is adorable. But here's the prime

745
00:41:17,880 --> 00:41:22,439
Speaker 1: example of where we can talk about grooming and what

746
00:41:22,560 --> 00:41:28,400
Speaker 1: happens when these relationships or these young kids become sexualized

747
00:41:28,400 --> 00:41:31,160
Speaker 1: by the audience or by the followers and not necessarily

748
00:41:31,239 --> 00:41:34,840
Speaker 1: being done by the parents. That they may be completely

749
00:41:34,840 --> 00:41:37,200
Speaker 1: innocent of it, thinking that they're playing cute little dress

750
00:41:37,239 --> 00:41:40,919
Speaker 1: up matching mommy type of look, which is often a thing,

751
00:41:41,280 --> 00:41:46,000
Speaker 1: but this becomes a real dangerous road of grooming and

752
00:41:46,200 --> 00:41:49,440
Speaker 1: a sexualization of young children. Just I know there was

753
00:41:49,600 --> 00:41:55,279
Speaker 1: one specific woman who went through a young girl's accounts,

754
00:41:55,640 --> 00:41:58,040
Speaker 1: meaning they were probably really young, maybe with a parent

755
00:41:58,280 --> 00:42:01,319
Speaker 1: showing what kind of followers these accounts had, and they

756
00:42:01,480 --> 00:42:05,040
Speaker 1: are typically form a more examples like Middle Asian men

757
00:42:05,560 --> 00:42:08,000
Speaker 1: commenting about how beautiful they are and how all these

758
00:42:08,040 --> 00:42:10,040
Speaker 1: things are, like how good they looked in this outfit

759
00:42:10,120 --> 00:42:12,520
Speaker 1: or all these things, and how concerning it is that

760
00:42:12,600 --> 00:42:16,920
Speaker 1: the parents aren't realizing that compliment is not cute. It's

761
00:42:16,960 --> 00:42:19,120
Speaker 1: not a cute compliment and you shouldn't sit there and

762
00:42:19,200 --> 00:42:22,520
Speaker 1: like them and say thanks for supporting my child, which

763
00:42:22,560 --> 00:42:26,279
Speaker 1: just been the response. And it is so dangerous when

764
00:42:26,320 --> 00:42:30,040
Speaker 1: you see that this is becoming normal exactly. So, I

765
00:42:30,080 --> 00:42:31,640
Speaker 1: do think that there are people out there that are

766
00:42:31,640 --> 00:42:33,920
Speaker 1: just like, oh, I just love this baby, and I

767
00:42:33,960 --> 00:42:37,560
Speaker 1: have slipped into an unhealthy fixation on this baby. Perhaps

768
00:42:37,600 --> 00:42:42,000
Speaker 1: not badly intentioned, yes, but you are so right that

769
00:42:42,000 --> 00:42:44,799
Speaker 1: that that there are people for whom they do have

770
00:42:44,840 --> 00:42:48,840
Speaker 1: bad intentions. And it is about sexualization and greaming and

771
00:42:48,960 --> 00:42:52,319
Speaker 1: it's gross like it like I'm what I want to

772
00:42:52,320 --> 00:42:55,040
Speaker 1: talk about today is like just the tip of the

773
00:42:55,080 --> 00:43:00,439
Speaker 1: iceberg with how dangerous and gross this stuff can because

774
00:43:00,640 --> 00:43:03,760
Speaker 1: truly it's just like very dark. There is a trend

775
00:43:04,280 --> 00:43:08,000
Speaker 1: called role playing, no not Dungeons and Dragons, role playing

776
00:43:08,080 --> 00:43:11,520
Speaker 1: like that this is what people Annie and I bet

777
00:43:11,520 --> 00:43:15,800
Speaker 1: you were like. So this is a this is a

778
00:43:15,840 --> 00:43:17,400
Speaker 1: trend that I actually had not heard of until I

779
00:43:17,400 --> 00:43:20,200
Speaker 1: researched for this episode, where people on the internet will

780
00:43:20,239 --> 00:43:23,640
Speaker 1: steal photos of other people from social media and make

781
00:43:24,040 --> 00:43:27,480
Speaker 1: new fake accounts of these people with like made up

782
00:43:27,560 --> 00:43:32,200
Speaker 1: stories and identities. Now, sometimes this can be like mostly harmless,

783
00:43:32,239 --> 00:43:34,640
Speaker 1: other than the fact that, like, it's not cool to

784
00:43:34,719 --> 00:43:37,680
Speaker 1: be taking pictures of kids from the internet, but like,

785
00:43:37,960 --> 00:43:41,399
Speaker 1: some people are doing this just and it's not it's

786
00:43:41,440 --> 00:43:45,200
Speaker 1: not necessarily harmful. But in other cases, some of the

787
00:43:45,280 --> 00:43:49,440
Speaker 1: backstories and like fictional situations involving the identity of children

788
00:43:49,719 --> 00:43:52,600
Speaker 1: and the pictures that they are using are sexual. And

789
00:43:52,680 --> 00:43:56,640
Speaker 1: so there's this influencer Katie Rose Pritchard. She told Good

790
00:43:56,640 --> 00:43:59,120
Speaker 1: Morning America that one day that she discovered all these

791
00:43:59,120 --> 00:44:01,960
Speaker 1: social media account made for each one of her kids,

792
00:44:02,239 --> 00:44:05,319
Speaker 1: but they were actually strangers pretending to be her, like

793
00:44:05,920 --> 00:44:09,960
Speaker 1: very young toddler children typing in like baby voice in

794
00:44:10,080 --> 00:44:13,040
Speaker 1: camptions on Instagram. She told Good Mortoring America that she

795
00:44:13,200 --> 00:44:16,000
Speaker 1: noticed that among these role playing posts on social media,

796
00:44:16,239 --> 00:44:20,160
Speaker 1: they used hashtags like kid RP or baby RP to

797
00:44:20,280 --> 00:44:22,120
Speaker 1: indicate that's what it is, and that there's like a

798
00:44:22,160 --> 00:44:25,759
Speaker 1: massive community of people doing this, some of whom are

799
00:44:25,800 --> 00:44:34,600
Speaker 1: describing obviously sexualized fictional situations involving her toddlers, and probably unsurprising,

800
00:44:34,800 --> 00:44:38,600
Speaker 1: she was enraged and horrified, and I think, you know,

801
00:44:38,719 --> 00:44:42,440
Speaker 1: there's so many different avenues to this, but one is

802
00:44:42,480 --> 00:44:46,440
Speaker 1: that it's obviously a social media platform accountability issue. Katie

803
00:44:46,480 --> 00:44:48,840
Speaker 1: Rose pritchards that she reached out to Instagram to have

804
00:44:48,960 --> 00:44:52,479
Speaker 1: this content taken down, and that at first Instagram told

805
00:44:52,480 --> 00:44:56,040
Speaker 1: her that people making fake accounts of her kids and

806
00:44:56,080 --> 00:44:59,480
Speaker 1: putting them in these sexual fictional situations was not against

807
00:44:59,520 --> 00:45:02,600
Speaker 1: their community guidelines, but eventually she just kept having her

808
00:45:02,600 --> 00:45:06,160
Speaker 1: followers report the content and Instagram did eventually take it down.

809
00:45:06,280 --> 00:45:08,640
Speaker 1: So she decided that she was going to stop posting

810
00:45:08,800 --> 00:45:12,160
Speaker 1: pictures of her kids on social media, even though she

811
00:45:12,239 --> 00:45:15,440
Speaker 1: was an influencer and this had resulted in brand deals

812
00:45:15,480 --> 00:45:17,600
Speaker 1: and partnerships and all of that, but that it just

813
00:45:17,680 --> 00:45:20,440
Speaker 1: wasn't worth it, because she was like, even though Instagram

814
00:45:20,520 --> 00:45:22,600
Speaker 1: eventually did the right thing and took these pictures of

815
00:45:22,640 --> 00:45:24,960
Speaker 1: my kids down, who knows where they could be. She's like,

816
00:45:24,960 --> 00:45:29,279
Speaker 1: I'll never know how far their pictures traveled what dark

817
00:45:29,360 --> 00:45:32,839
Speaker 1: corners of the Internet her kids images are on and

818
00:45:33,239 --> 00:45:36,839
Speaker 1: that is really scary. Yeah, And you know, just to

819
00:45:36,840 --> 00:45:39,440
Speaker 1: add a wrench in this whole thing is with the

820
00:45:39,480 --> 00:45:43,640
Speaker 1: ideas of deep fakes and AI technology which takes straight

821
00:45:43,680 --> 00:45:47,240
Speaker 1: from content from the Internet. There are so many disturbing

822
00:45:47,280 --> 00:45:49,960
Speaker 1: things that's out there just knowing half of that and

823
00:45:50,040 --> 00:45:52,560
Speaker 1: that being faked and what it's being used for. And

824
00:45:52,600 --> 00:45:56,759
Speaker 1: again there's no loss to truly stop this. This is

825
00:45:57,520 --> 00:46:00,359
Speaker 1: kind of like the freedom of speech. As long as

826
00:46:00,360 --> 00:46:03,840
Speaker 1: you're not violating that child and you're doing images that

827
00:46:04,320 --> 00:46:06,719
Speaker 1: resemble and say this is not truly done. All you

828
00:46:06,719 --> 00:46:08,839
Speaker 1: have to do is alter something, and it can't. They

829
00:46:08,840 --> 00:46:11,279
Speaker 1: can escape the log because there is no law for it.

830
00:46:11,520 --> 00:46:13,480
Speaker 1: And with the realization that once you put it on

831
00:46:13,520 --> 00:46:17,120
Speaker 1: the Internet, there's no ownership two ownership, as much as

832
00:46:17,120 --> 00:46:18,640
Speaker 1: you would like to think there is, there's no true

833
00:46:18,680 --> 00:46:21,799
Speaker 1: ownership to the content that you are posting. Yeah, to

834
00:46:21,880 --> 00:46:26,320
Speaker 1: your point about deep fakes, mom Uncharted on her TikTok

835
00:46:26,360 --> 00:46:30,200
Speaker 1: has talked about again it's so dark that I hate

836
00:46:30,200 --> 00:46:33,200
Speaker 1: to even go there. But like there are marketplaces for

837
00:46:33,760 --> 00:46:36,960
Speaker 1: deep fakes. People have been like, here's an image of

838
00:46:37,000 --> 00:46:41,520
Speaker 1: a person, not always an adult. Sometimes it's a child

839
00:46:41,640 --> 00:46:45,120
Speaker 1: I would like to see digitally manipulated, like AI generated

840
00:46:45,400 --> 00:46:49,480
Speaker 1: images of this child in sexual situations. That is a

841
00:46:49,560 --> 00:46:52,280
Speaker 1: thing that happens. And I know that it is dark.

842
00:46:52,320 --> 00:46:54,560
Speaker 1: And it's like, on the one hand, you feel awful

843
00:46:55,719 --> 00:46:57,879
Speaker 1: when someone's like posting a cute picture of their kid

844
00:46:57,920 --> 00:46:59,719
Speaker 1: being I'm like, well, did you know that this could out?

845
00:46:59,760 --> 00:47:02,279
Speaker 1: Why but on marketplace on the dark side of the Internet.

846
00:47:02,320 --> 00:47:06,279
Speaker 1: But I have to say the truth. It's like, it's like,

847
00:47:06,320 --> 00:47:09,200
Speaker 1: what is happening? And I think it's a reason why

848
00:47:09,840 --> 00:47:14,000
Speaker 1: more and more influencers are and people in general are

849
00:47:14,080 --> 00:47:16,319
Speaker 1: keeping their kids off of the Internet. Like I don't

850
00:47:16,360 --> 00:47:17,960
Speaker 1: have kids, but if I was a parent, I don't

851
00:47:18,000 --> 00:47:20,160
Speaker 1: think I would put my kids on social media. I

852
00:47:20,200 --> 00:47:24,040
Speaker 1: just I think that with all that I now know,

853
00:47:24,200 --> 00:47:25,920
Speaker 1: and I didn't always know this, I know this from

854
00:47:26,360 --> 00:47:31,360
Speaker 1: research from now that I know all the different really

855
00:47:31,680 --> 00:47:35,480
Speaker 1: dark up gross corners of the Internet out there, I

856
00:47:35,520 --> 00:47:39,920
Speaker 1: just feel like it would be a safer bet to not, Like,

857
00:47:40,080 --> 00:47:43,200
Speaker 1: I don't know what it would give me to introduce

858
00:47:43,280 --> 00:47:46,200
Speaker 1: that into my kid's life. And this, you know, this

859
00:47:46,320 --> 00:47:49,040
Speaker 1: is a growing thing these days. The influencer that I

860
00:47:49,120 --> 00:47:51,319
Speaker 1: was just talking about, she wrote on Instagram. I can

861
00:47:51,360 --> 00:47:53,600
Speaker 1: be angry at Instagram all day long and nothing will

862
00:47:53,680 --> 00:47:56,520
Speaker 1: change until we change. Instagram is not to blame for

863
00:47:56,560 --> 00:47:59,480
Speaker 1: the exploitation of my children. I am. They have no

864
00:47:59,560 --> 00:48:02,480
Speaker 1: response ability and usually come back with we have no

865
00:48:02,560 --> 00:48:06,479
Speaker 1: control over what our users posts. They simply do not care.

866
00:48:07,000 --> 00:48:13,120
Speaker 1: And it's I think that Instagram is really abdigating responsibility here.

867
00:48:13,320 --> 00:48:15,520
Speaker 1: But on the other hand, Katie is not wrong about

868
00:48:15,520 --> 00:48:19,440
Speaker 1: this that like it really, if platforms aren't going to

869
00:48:19,480 --> 00:48:23,760
Speaker 1: do anything to keep young people safe online, they should

870
00:48:24,080 --> 00:48:26,359
Speaker 1: an absence of them being leaders and doing what they're

871
00:48:26,360 --> 00:48:29,000
Speaker 1: supposed to be doing to keep kids safe, we have

872
00:48:29,040 --> 00:48:31,400
Speaker 1: no choice but to act. And I know that that

873
00:48:31,560 --> 00:48:34,120
Speaker 1: is like it should not be that way. But if

874
00:48:34,360 --> 00:48:37,720
Speaker 1: platforms are going to allow but kind of dark stuff

875
00:48:38,000 --> 00:48:41,839
Speaker 1: involving kids that they do allow, we have to be

876
00:48:42,040 --> 00:48:43,759
Speaker 1: the ones who are making good decisions to keep our

877
00:48:43,800 --> 00:48:45,920
Speaker 1: kids safe. Right Well, obviously, as you said at the

878
00:48:46,040 --> 00:48:50,080
Speaker 1: very beginning, as a parent, your first responsibility is the

879
00:48:50,120 --> 00:48:53,200
Speaker 1: safety of your child. It should be, and that's that's

880
00:48:53,320 --> 00:48:56,399
Speaker 1: kind of the intent to begin with. And so even

881
00:48:56,480 --> 00:48:59,160
Speaker 1: though yes, you may not be doing any of these

882
00:48:59,239 --> 00:49:02,960
Speaker 1: dark and coable things. You're like, I've I keep talking

883
00:49:02,960 --> 00:49:06,640
Speaker 1: about it, but like I have had nightmares of the

884
00:49:06,760 --> 00:49:10,600
Speaker 1: darkness that happens to children, unfortunately, because of the things

885
00:49:10,600 --> 00:49:13,399
Speaker 1: that I have witnessed personally, Like, that's just a thing

886
00:49:13,520 --> 00:49:16,960
Speaker 1: that will always be ingrained in my head. It's terrifying,

887
00:49:17,080 --> 00:49:19,400
Speaker 1: it's awful, and I hate that that's a part of

888
00:49:19,440 --> 00:49:22,319
Speaker 1: my psyche and that that's part of the thing that

889
00:49:22,360 --> 00:49:26,120
Speaker 1: I share with people. But it is really naive to

890
00:49:26,320 --> 00:49:31,400
Speaker 1: believe that everything is sunshine and puppy dogs, because I

891
00:49:31,440 --> 00:49:33,640
Speaker 1: would love that, that would be amazing. That's why I

892
00:49:33,680 --> 00:49:37,080
Speaker 1: can't watch dark things because I don't want a little

893
00:49:37,160 --> 00:49:39,799
Speaker 1: in that world. But I've seen it, and you know,

894
00:49:39,840 --> 00:49:42,680
Speaker 1: as you've researched more things, it gets uglier and uglier.

895
00:49:42,760 --> 00:49:46,920
Speaker 1: And as Instagram should be held responsible for some things,

896
00:49:47,040 --> 00:49:50,520
Speaker 1: it is also again the parents' responsibility at the very

897
00:49:50,600 --> 00:49:56,040
Speaker 1: jump for to protect a child. And unlike it sounds

898
00:49:56,080 --> 00:49:59,440
Speaker 1: like this one influencer did an amazing job and trying

899
00:49:59,480 --> 00:50:02,200
Speaker 1: to back track because you don't think about that. It's

900
00:50:02,200 --> 00:50:04,120
Speaker 1: an amazing it's a great thing to not have to

901
00:50:04,120 --> 00:50:06,120
Speaker 1: think about that, but to win your face with it,

902
00:50:06,160 --> 00:50:09,080
Speaker 1: to realize you need to do some damage control, but

903
00:50:09,120 --> 00:50:11,440
Speaker 1: there's those out there who as long as they get

904
00:50:11,480 --> 00:50:13,759
Speaker 1: the money, as dark as that seems, it doesn't seem

905
00:50:13,800 --> 00:50:16,000
Speaker 1: to care, and there's no law to protect the children,

906
00:50:16,040 --> 00:50:20,280
Speaker 1: it seems exactly. So this is something that really bombs

907
00:50:20,360 --> 00:50:22,520
Speaker 1: me out, grosses me out because you might be thinking, like,

908
00:50:22,840 --> 00:50:25,920
Speaker 1: surely parents are not knowingly making money off of their

909
00:50:25,960 --> 00:50:29,520
Speaker 1: kids content being served up to adult creeps. But I'm

910
00:50:29,560 --> 00:50:31,600
Speaker 1: sorry to report that that is what is happening with

911
00:50:31,640 --> 00:50:35,439
Speaker 1: some of these like mom run accounts. Sarah of Mom

912
00:50:35,440 --> 00:50:37,600
Speaker 1: and Charged told me that she sees these mom run

913
00:50:37,600 --> 00:50:41,320
Speaker 1: accounts of young girls as sensibly a platform to share

914
00:50:41,360 --> 00:50:45,920
Speaker 1: their daughters like modeling pictures or like gymnastics pictures. But

915
00:50:45,960 --> 00:50:48,560
Speaker 1: when you click in, as you were saying, the people

916
00:50:48,600 --> 00:50:52,319
Speaker 1: who are following that page are grown men. The people

917
00:50:52,360 --> 00:50:55,319
Speaker 1: who are saving the images. So if you post something

918
00:50:55,360 --> 00:50:57,880
Speaker 1: on TikTok or post something on Instagram so you can

919
00:50:57,960 --> 00:51:00,520
Speaker 1: see who saves it, the people saving that are grown men.

920
00:51:00,880 --> 00:51:04,280
Speaker 1: And when you click into these profiles of the people following,

921
00:51:04,680 --> 00:51:08,040
Speaker 1: oftentimes it's like not it doesn't take you know, a

922
00:51:08,120 --> 00:51:10,640
Speaker 1: detective to see like, Okay, this is an image of

923
00:51:10,640 --> 00:51:14,520
Speaker 1: a grown man. Who are they following accounts like hot

924
00:51:14,560 --> 00:51:17,040
Speaker 1: young bikini girls things like that, like it's pretty clear

925
00:51:17,080 --> 00:51:20,000
Speaker 1: what's going on. And then these men will leave comments

926
00:51:20,000 --> 00:51:22,239
Speaker 1: on pictures of their kids that are like wow, what

927
00:51:22,280 --> 00:51:25,480
Speaker 1: a hot picture, and mom will go in and like

928
00:51:25,640 --> 00:51:28,200
Speaker 1: that comment, right, And so it's sort of this weird

929
00:51:28,200 --> 00:51:30,520
Speaker 1: thing where it's done under this kind of like plausible

930
00:51:30,560 --> 00:51:33,319
Speaker 1: deniability of like, oh, it's just a modeling page, like

931
00:51:33,840 --> 00:51:37,319
Speaker 1: you're the one sexualizing my kid, but come on, like

932
00:51:37,480 --> 00:51:41,120
Speaker 1: you you know what this is. I've even seen some

933
00:51:41,200 --> 00:51:45,920
Speaker 1: of these accounts go so far as to sell images

934
00:51:46,040 --> 00:51:48,160
Speaker 1: of like you want to buy a photo set of

935
00:51:48,200 --> 00:51:51,760
Speaker 1: my daughter's gymnastic pictures, or even by their used clothing,

936
00:51:51,840 --> 00:51:55,359
Speaker 1: like we know, like we all see what's happening. They

937
00:51:55,360 --> 00:51:58,600
Speaker 1: can they can hide behind this is a modeling thing,

938
00:51:58,880 --> 00:52:01,920
Speaker 1: you know, this is you know whatever, it's clear what's

939
00:52:01,960 --> 00:52:05,319
Speaker 1: going on. You are making money from exploiting your kid,

940
00:52:05,440 --> 00:52:08,279
Speaker 1: and that is just what's happening. I think at the

941
00:52:08,360 --> 00:52:10,680
Speaker 1: very least, let's just call it what it is. Don't

942
00:52:10,760 --> 00:52:14,839
Speaker 1: dance around it, don't use this plausible deniability. Everyone knows

943
00:52:14,840 --> 00:52:30,760
Speaker 1: what's going on. Cut the crap, you know. We recently

944
00:52:30,800 --> 00:52:32,759
Speaker 1: did an episode on YouTube and this is a very

945
00:52:32,800 --> 00:52:37,880
Speaker 1: similar situation happening where there are videos of young kids,

946
00:52:37,960 --> 00:52:41,920
Speaker 1: mostly young girls, and getting several comments like this from

947
00:52:42,120 --> 00:52:48,720
Speaker 1: grown men. And as we've been alluding to this whole time,

948
00:52:49,239 --> 00:52:55,880
Speaker 1: there aren't specific laws in place to protect kids from this. Correct,

949
00:52:56,480 --> 00:52:58,839
Speaker 1: that's right, and so when you think about it, it's

950
00:52:58,920 --> 00:53:01,799
Speaker 1: kind of weird. There's not right. Like when it comes

951
00:53:01,840 --> 00:53:04,680
Speaker 1: to kids making money off of their labor. We have

952
00:53:04,760 --> 00:53:07,399
Speaker 1: all kinds of rules and policies and regulations in place

953
00:53:07,480 --> 00:53:09,960
Speaker 1: here in the United States. You know, media companies that

954
00:53:10,000 --> 00:53:13,760
Speaker 1: work with kids for like films or commercials or modeling

955
00:53:13,840 --> 00:53:16,759
Speaker 1: or whatever, they have very strict labor laws like I

956
00:53:16,840 --> 00:53:19,400
Speaker 1: used to do, like child modeling and child acting when

957
00:53:19,440 --> 00:53:22,560
Speaker 1: I was a kid. Like they have very very specific

958
00:53:22,719 --> 00:53:27,440
Speaker 1: labor laws. But the Fair Labor Standards Act, a nineteen

959
00:53:27,520 --> 00:53:31,000
Speaker 1: thirty eight law that addresses excessive child labor, and the

960
00:53:31,120 --> 00:53:34,800
Speaker 1: California Coogan Act, which protects child actors. Neither of those

961
00:53:34,920 --> 00:53:39,200
Speaker 1: have been updated to include children online, like the children

962
00:53:39,200 --> 00:53:41,960
Speaker 1: of influencers, children who are being used as content. And

963
00:53:41,960 --> 00:53:45,879
Speaker 1: so it is definitely a situation where our technology has

964
00:53:45,920 --> 00:53:49,000
Speaker 1: advanced quicker than our laws have because they're currently zero

965
00:53:49,080 --> 00:53:51,600
Speaker 1: laws that in the United States that regulate how children

966
00:53:52,000 --> 00:53:54,480
Speaker 1: work on social media and how they can appear in

967
00:53:54,560 --> 00:53:58,240
Speaker 1: ads on social media that generate money, but that actually

968
00:53:58,360 --> 00:54:01,600
Speaker 1: might be changing soon. Organ Sung reported that an eighteen

969
00:54:01,680 --> 00:54:05,320
Speaker 1: year old college student named Chris McCarty wanted to advocate

970
00:54:05,320 --> 00:54:08,719
Speaker 1: for kids rights to privacy after learning about that influencer

971
00:54:08,840 --> 00:54:11,759
Speaker 1: Mica Stelfer, the one who you might recall we were

972
00:54:11,760 --> 00:54:15,000
Speaker 1: just talking about, she wanted to adopt a special needs child.

973
00:54:15,200 --> 00:54:20,520
Speaker 1: She did adopt that child, extensively shared intimate content about

974
00:54:20,600 --> 00:54:24,279
Speaker 1: the health needs of her adoptive child before deciding that

975
00:54:24,360 --> 00:54:27,960
Speaker 1: those medical needs were too much and having him quote rehomed.

976
00:54:28,000 --> 00:54:31,440
Speaker 1: As she put it, well, that inspired Chris McCarty to

977
00:54:32,320 --> 00:54:35,600
Speaker 1: start advocating for the way that kids are used online

978
00:54:35,600 --> 00:54:38,480
Speaker 1: and like advocating for protections for these kids. McCarty started

979
00:54:38,520 --> 00:54:41,480
Speaker 1: the site Quit Clicking Kids, which is described as an

980
00:54:41,480 --> 00:54:44,440
Speaker 1: advocacy and education site to combat the monetization of children

981
00:54:44,480 --> 00:54:47,160
Speaker 1: on social media. And when Chris was a senior, they

982
00:54:47,239 --> 00:54:50,200
Speaker 1: cold emailed like a bunch of lawmakers and eventually ended

983
00:54:50,280 --> 00:54:54,000
Speaker 1: up working with Representative Emily Wis to craft HB sixteen

984
00:54:54,040 --> 00:54:57,160
Speaker 1: twenty seven, which is a bill that would protect quote

985
00:54:57,320 --> 00:55:00,360
Speaker 1: the interests of minor children featured on for profit family

986
00:55:00,440 --> 00:55:03,919
Speaker 1: vlogs by requiring the parents of kid influencers to set

987
00:55:03,920 --> 00:55:06,840
Speaker 1: aside part of that revenue from their content into a

988
00:55:06,880 --> 00:55:09,680
Speaker 1: separate fund so that their kids can access them into adulthood.

989
00:55:09,840 --> 00:55:12,400
Speaker 1: And it would also grant the children of influencers the

990
00:55:12,560 --> 00:55:15,720
Speaker 1: right to request the permanent deletion of their likenesses, names,

991
00:55:15,800 --> 00:55:19,719
Speaker 1: or photos from any Internet platform or network that provided

992
00:55:19,760 --> 00:55:22,880
Speaker 1: compensation to the individual's parent or parents in exchange for

993
00:55:22,920 --> 00:55:27,560
Speaker 1: that content, and so platforms under this new legislation, platforms

994
00:55:27,560 --> 00:55:30,680
Speaker 1: would have to take reasonable steps to permanently delete video

995
00:55:30,719 --> 00:55:33,479
Speaker 1: segments of such children. That was one of the things

996
00:55:33,480 --> 00:55:36,200
Speaker 1: that like in researching for this episode and reading the

997
00:55:36,600 --> 00:55:41,520
Speaker 1: accounts of young people who were the used solely, like

998
00:55:41,520 --> 00:55:44,120
Speaker 1: they were the sole focus of their parents content. One

999
00:55:44,120 --> 00:55:46,680
Speaker 1: of the things that they say is I can't delete

1000
00:55:46,680 --> 00:55:48,439
Speaker 1: it from me. I had no choice in the matter.

1001
00:55:48,480 --> 00:55:50,839
Speaker 1: I was not able to consent. And now when you

1002
00:55:50,920 --> 00:55:54,359
Speaker 1: google my name, all this stuff, intimate stuff comes up

1003
00:55:54,360 --> 00:55:57,760
Speaker 1: about me, intimate stuff about my health, my body, my life,

1004
00:55:57,800 --> 00:56:00,480
Speaker 1: all comes up, and there is no way to remove it.

1005
00:56:00,520 --> 00:56:03,600
Speaker 1: And so I don't know how this legislation will shake out.

1006
00:56:03,680 --> 00:56:07,279
Speaker 1: I'll keep you posted. But I do think it's it's

1007
00:56:07,360 --> 00:56:11,000
Speaker 1: time that we really had our laws and our norms

1008
00:56:11,160 --> 00:56:14,000
Speaker 1: catch up with where we are technologically. And I think,

1009
00:56:14,360 --> 00:56:17,799
Speaker 1: you know, I think I think it's time. You would

1010
00:56:17,840 --> 00:56:20,320
Speaker 1: think that we would have learned through the child actors stuff,

1011
00:56:20,960 --> 00:56:24,760
Speaker 1: all the young actresses that had either that money stolen

1012
00:56:24,880 --> 00:56:26,840
Speaker 1: or gone through so much abuse, all those things that

1013
00:56:26,880 --> 00:56:29,719
Speaker 1: you would you would have thought, yeah, we would learn

1014
00:56:30,160 --> 00:56:33,719
Speaker 1: from those mistakes because some of these young kids making

1015
00:56:33,960 --> 00:56:36,359
Speaker 1: multi millions of dollars, so that you would think that

1016
00:56:36,400 --> 00:56:38,680
Speaker 1: with that kind of revenue, which is which is rare,

1017
00:56:39,120 --> 00:56:41,000
Speaker 1: But those are the ones who arguing the money, are

1018
00:56:41,040 --> 00:56:43,960
Speaker 1: the younger kids at this point in time, that we

1019
00:56:43,960 --> 00:56:48,840
Speaker 1: would actually found a way by now that would protect

1020
00:56:48,960 --> 00:56:52,319
Speaker 1: these kids, because inevitably they're the ones who kind of

1021
00:56:53,280 --> 00:56:55,600
Speaker 1: bring it to bring it to as it is, like

1022
00:56:55,800 --> 00:56:57,880
Speaker 1: we're not. It's not the older people who are creating

1023
00:56:57,920 --> 00:57:01,800
Speaker 1: these new things and new new trends and new ways

1024
00:57:01,800 --> 00:57:05,719
Speaker 1: of communicating, as the younger kids who are doing this

1025
00:57:05,880 --> 00:57:09,360
Speaker 1: and learning how to do it better and or being

1026
00:57:09,520 --> 00:57:12,200
Speaker 1: used for it like it's one of those things. They're

1027
00:57:12,200 --> 00:57:14,560
Speaker 1: like it should be for them, So why wouldn't it

1028
00:57:14,600 --> 00:57:18,600
Speaker 1: are automatically protect them exactly. Like I love cute kids

1029
00:57:18,600 --> 00:57:20,560
Speaker 1: on the Internet as much as anybody else in a

1030
00:57:20,560 --> 00:57:22,960
Speaker 1: healthy way. But like corn Kid, I don't know if

1031
00:57:23,000 --> 00:57:25,640
Speaker 1: you guys remember corn Kid. He was this like adorable

1032
00:57:25,680 --> 00:57:28,120
Speaker 1: little kid who was interviewed at a state fair eating

1033
00:57:28,160 --> 00:57:30,800
Speaker 1: corn and he was like when I had it with butter,

1034
00:57:30,960 --> 00:57:33,760
Speaker 1: everything changed and he was like an overnight sensation. And

1035
00:57:33,800 --> 00:57:35,919
Speaker 1: I remember thinking like, oh, what happened to corn Kid?

1036
00:57:35,960 --> 00:57:40,000
Speaker 1: How's he doing? And Corn Kid is quote retired, and

1037
00:57:40,040 --> 00:57:43,600
Speaker 1: I just loved that, you know, somebody in his life

1038
00:57:43,680 --> 00:57:48,120
Speaker 1: was like, hey, this we've had this overnight unexpected viral fame,

1039
00:57:48,880 --> 00:57:51,400
Speaker 1: but you could retire. You know, this doesn't have to

1040
00:57:51,400 --> 00:57:54,560
Speaker 1: be something that you, you know, do, This doesn't have

1041
00:57:54,640 --> 00:57:55,840
Speaker 1: to be something I think I think I did say

1042
00:57:55,880 --> 00:57:57,920
Speaker 1: that he was on cameo, But this doesn't have to

1043
00:57:57,920 --> 00:58:01,880
Speaker 1: be something that you, you know, make your entire identity

1044
00:58:02,160 --> 00:58:04,160
Speaker 1: and you're just a kid, you don't you don't have to,

1045
00:58:04,640 --> 00:58:08,600
Speaker 1: you know, decide to go into internet social media stardom,

1046
00:58:08,720 --> 00:58:12,320
Speaker 1: entertaining strangers because you had this one viral moment. And

1047
00:58:12,320 --> 00:58:13,960
Speaker 1: so I really that really heartened me to see that

1048
00:58:14,000 --> 00:58:17,360
Speaker 1: somebody in his life gave him the space and the

1049
00:58:17,440 --> 00:58:19,919
Speaker 1: language of being like, oh yeah, I'm retired as corn

1050
00:58:20,040 --> 00:58:24,480
Speaker 1: kid to make a choice for himself and protect his

1051
00:58:24,560 --> 00:58:26,800
Speaker 1: protect his identity a little bit, protect protect his peace,

1052
00:58:27,120 --> 00:58:30,160
Speaker 1: because I do think, like, yeah, the Internet is forever,

1053
00:58:31,120 --> 00:58:34,880
Speaker 1: and I really feel for these kids who don't get

1054
00:58:34,920 --> 00:58:41,360
Speaker 1: a choice in becoming these Internet stars and have to

1055
00:58:41,400 --> 00:58:43,200
Speaker 1: live with it for life. And I think, you know,

1056
00:58:43,600 --> 00:58:45,320
Speaker 1: I do think the tide is turning a little bit.

1057
00:58:45,360 --> 00:58:47,840
Speaker 1: I think that we're seeing more and more one more

1058
00:58:47,880 --> 00:58:50,960
Speaker 1: and more children who were used in this way as

1059
00:58:50,960 --> 00:58:54,160
Speaker 1: content speaking up about what that experience was like for them.

1060
00:58:54,360 --> 00:58:57,120
Speaker 1: And I think we're seeing more and more influencers stop

1061
00:58:57,240 --> 00:58:59,600
Speaker 1: showing their kids on social media or do so in

1062
00:58:59,640 --> 00:59:02,400
Speaker 1: ways we're a little bit more thoughtful. Right, So you'll

1063
00:59:02,400 --> 00:59:05,680
Speaker 1: see influencers not showing their kids face or including their

1064
00:59:05,760 --> 00:59:08,000
Speaker 1: kids in their content, but just showing their hands at

1065
00:59:08,000 --> 00:59:10,000
Speaker 1: the back of their head, so that it's not just

1066
00:59:10,120 --> 00:59:17,000
Speaker 1: you know, performing on command for the entertainment and monetization

1067
00:59:17,720 --> 00:59:21,480
Speaker 1: of your platform. Right. And you know, I think people

1068
00:59:21,520 --> 00:59:25,080
Speaker 1: took a page out of these big celebrities who realize

1069
00:59:25,120 --> 00:59:27,120
Speaker 1: who lived in the limelight. We're like, we're not putting

1070
00:59:27,120 --> 00:59:30,880
Speaker 1: our children through that and go through everything to try

1071
00:59:30,920 --> 00:59:33,680
Speaker 1: to cover at least like protect their identities. And I've

1072
00:59:33,680 --> 00:59:36,960
Speaker 1: done so much better recently, I mean not some, but

1073
00:59:37,120 --> 00:59:39,600
Speaker 1: you know, and then they're learning this could be really damaging,

1074
00:59:39,640 --> 00:59:42,200
Speaker 1: like you said, and that core and kid so cute.

1075
00:59:42,280 --> 00:59:45,520
Speaker 1: He literally I think they asked him much later after

1076
00:59:45,520 --> 00:59:48,200
Speaker 1: everything we viral, like what do your friends think of that?

1077
00:59:48,280 --> 00:59:50,000
Speaker 1: And they're like, my friends don't know. They don't know

1078
00:59:50,000 --> 00:59:52,520
Speaker 1: anything about this because the parents did such a great

1079
00:59:52,600 --> 00:59:55,840
Speaker 1: job in keeping them isolated away from all of that

1080
00:59:55,880 --> 00:59:58,320
Speaker 1: because they didn't want him to be scrutinized, made fun

1081
00:59:58,360 --> 01:00:00,160
Speaker 1: of or any of that. Because so many any of

1082
01:00:00,200 --> 01:00:01,720
Speaker 1: them because he kind of I guess is it a

1083
01:00:01,760 --> 01:00:05,400
Speaker 1: mame was the amazing I guess maybe eventually became that

1084
01:00:05,400 --> 01:00:08,200
Speaker 1: that so many of those goods who were gifts or

1085
01:00:08,280 --> 01:00:12,720
Speaker 1: memes were really humiliated as adults. Yeah, Like I think

1086
01:00:12,760 --> 01:00:17,160
Speaker 1: it was BuzzFeed doing a series of what happened after

1087
01:00:17,360 --> 01:00:20,040
Speaker 1: these people became memes. They actually have a really good one.

1088
01:00:20,040 --> 01:00:22,400
Speaker 1: If you remember the girl this is gonna maybe date

1089
01:00:22,440 --> 01:00:24,120
Speaker 1: me and people who are younger gonna be like, what

1090
01:00:24,160 --> 01:00:26,840
Speaker 1: are you talking about? The girl who was photographed with

1091
01:00:26,960 --> 01:00:31,920
Speaker 1: pigtails and a headgear, holding goosebumps books, if you if

1092
01:00:32,440 --> 01:00:35,919
Speaker 1: she is a very her story is very fascinating. But yeah,

1093
01:00:35,960 --> 01:00:39,680
Speaker 1: it's like these these people that we see on the Internet,

1094
01:00:39,960 --> 01:00:42,120
Speaker 1: and because we're engaging with them through a screen, we

1095
01:00:42,160 --> 01:00:44,360
Speaker 1: can kind of forget that they're real people who have

1096
01:00:44,480 --> 01:00:46,800
Speaker 1: to go on to live real lives in the real world,

1097
01:00:46,880 --> 01:00:49,960
Speaker 1: or they don't just exist frozen in time in this

1098
01:00:50,080 --> 01:01:00,480
Speaker 1: meme where we first encountered them. They are real people. Yeah, her, Well,

1099
01:01:00,920 --> 01:01:03,960
Speaker 1: as always, this has been so informative, Bridget, thanks for

1100
01:01:04,040 --> 01:01:07,200
Speaker 1: bringing it to our attention. Thanks for making the time

1101
01:01:07,200 --> 01:01:09,840
Speaker 1: to come on, and I'm sure we'll update on this

1102
01:01:09,840 --> 01:01:12,240
Speaker 1: one because clearly we all have a lot of thoughts

1103
01:01:12,400 --> 01:01:17,080
Speaker 1: about this, so would love to come back to this one. Well,

1104
01:01:17,080 --> 01:01:19,920
Speaker 1: where can the good listeners find you? Well, you can

1105
01:01:19,960 --> 01:01:22,400
Speaker 1: find me over at my own podcast. There are no

1106
01:01:22,440 --> 01:01:24,320
Speaker 1: girls on the Internet. The episode that we did with

1107
01:01:24,560 --> 01:01:27,320
Speaker 1: mom uncharted super interesting. She's just a really interesting person.

1108
01:01:27,320 --> 01:01:29,640
Speaker 1: I would definitely recommend checking it out. Can follow me

1109
01:01:29,760 --> 01:01:33,000
Speaker 1: on Twitter at Bridget Marie, on Instagram at Bridget Marie

1110
01:01:33,000 --> 01:01:36,720
Speaker 1: in DC, or on TikTok at Bridget Mixed Podcasts. Yes,

1111
01:01:37,520 --> 01:01:40,840
Speaker 1: love it, love it go check all of those things

1112
01:01:40,840 --> 01:01:44,600
Speaker 1: out if you haven't already, listeners, and yes, thank you again,

1113
01:01:44,800 --> 01:01:48,600
Speaker 1: Bridget can't wait to do this again next month. Update

1114
01:01:48,640 --> 01:01:50,320
Speaker 1: on the food as well. Yeah, maybe we'll do it

1115
01:01:50,360 --> 01:01:54,520
Speaker 1: from Mexico City, but you all come visit. Oh I

1116
01:01:54,560 --> 01:01:57,880
Speaker 1: would love it. I just heard an invitation. I'm coming.

1117
01:01:59,280 --> 01:02:02,480
Speaker 1: The bags are getting backed, the bags are getting parted

1118
01:02:02,560 --> 01:02:07,520
Speaker 1: in Mexico. Oh, I can't wait. Well, Listeners, If you

1119
01:02:07,560 --> 01:02:09,640
Speaker 1: would like to contact us that you can our emails,

1120
01:02:09,680 --> 01:02:12,280
Speaker 1: stuff mediamil, stuff at iHeartMedia dot com. You can find

1121
01:02:12,360 --> 01:02:15,600
Speaker 1: us on Twitter at Months of Podcast or Instagram and

1122
01:02:16,080 --> 01:02:18,720
Speaker 1: TikTok at stuff I Ever told You. Thanks as always

1123
01:02:18,720 --> 01:02:22,080
Speaker 1: to our super producer Christina the best, the best, and

1124
01:02:22,280 --> 01:02:23,920
Speaker 1: thanks to you for listening. Stuff one Ever told You.

1125
01:02:23,920 --> 01:02:26,160
Speaker 1: Subrotection I Heart Radio for more podcast In my Heart Radio,

1126
01:02:26,200 --> 01:02:28,160
Speaker 1: you can check out the radio ap Apple podcast wherever

1127
01:02:28,200 --> 01:02:29,400
Speaker 1: you listen to favorite shows