Speaker 1: Hi, Oh are you Bethany.
Speaker 2: I'm wonderful, nice to meet you.
Speaker 1: So nice to meet you. A huge fan of yours.
Speaker 2: Thank you. Like I think likewise, I've seen you.
Speaker 3: You're funny on TikTok, and I don't know that much
Speaker 3: or enough about you, so I'm excited to find out myself.
Speaker 2: But like I'm aware of you, but were you.
Speaker 3: I'm literally going blind because I'm not going blind.
Speaker 2: I'm coming in blind.
Speaker 3: I have all the information about you, but I kind
Speaker 3: of like to only look at it if I need
Speaker 3: to look at something on the test. So you were
Speaker 3: on the bachelorette or a bachelor.
Speaker 4: I was on the Bachelorette. So back in twenty eighteen,
Speaker 4: I was on the Bachelorette. And before that, I was
Speaker 4: in like the banking industry and took like a wild
Speaker 4: detour into reality TV, which was very unexpected and like
Speaker 4: definitely not I would say, like like like just my
Speaker 4: buddies were like, what the hell you doing?
Speaker 1: But I was on Bachelor in twenty eighteen, so it
Speaker 1: was like seven.
Speaker 3: Years ago, okay, And for some reason I thought you
Speaker 3: were So you were financed to the bachelorette trajectory.
Speaker 2: Not an athlete yeah.
Speaker 1: Non athlete.
Speaker 4: So I had my NBA in accounting and I played
Speaker 4: college sports and stuff like that, but nothing professional I was.
Speaker 4: I got an NBA in accounting and finance, and I
Speaker 4: was like bopping around in the banking industry. And then
Speaker 4: I did I actually, you know, you know Guilda Radner,
Speaker 4: the comedian she got right, of course, she died of
Speaker 4: ovarian cancer.
Speaker 1: There's Guilda's club.
Speaker 4: So there was a charity event and they did a
Speaker 4: bachelor auction, and so at the bachelor auction, they had
Speaker 4: thirty guys come up and people would bid on you
Speaker 4: for date. The money would all go to the charity.
Speaker 4: And so I did that sponsored by my employer, which
Speaker 4: was the bank. But then when I got there, I
Speaker 4: was like all right, if I'm gonna do this, let's
Speaker 4: do this. And so all the guys were kind of
Speaker 4: like going up a little like hey, you a bit
Speaker 4: on me.
Speaker 1: And I just started like stripping. I took my clothes off.
Speaker 1: Oh oh yeah.
Speaker 4: I got that crowd going and it was like that
Speaker 4: video that got sent to ABC. And then it was
Speaker 4: like nine months later. I didn't even live in I
Speaker 4: was in upstate New York. They moved me out to Seattle.
Speaker 4: I didn't even live in upstate anymore. Like, hey, we
Speaker 4: got this video of you in Rochester, New York? Are
Speaker 4: you still single? And would you be willing to come
Speaker 4: on the show? And I was like, what the hell.
Speaker 4: So that's how it all happened.
Speaker 2: That's amazing.
Speaker 3: And then so now you're a media personality, but you
Speaker 3: still how much do you use your finance background? Like
Speaker 3: how much is business playing into everything you're doing? I mean,
Speaker 3: obviously everything is your business, but how is it being applied?
Speaker 4: No, So what happened was I get off the show
Speaker 4: and I didn't really know what to expect. People are like,
Speaker 4: do you go on these reality shows to find love?
Speaker 4: I think nine point nine out of ten people know
Speaker 4: like you just go for many different reasons. For me,
Speaker 4: I was just like, I'm done with this corporate banking thing.
Speaker 4: I'm shot, let's do something different. And so after I
Speaker 4: got off, I started to learn someone I joke around
Speaker 4: as a weighted blanket deal that came to me and
Speaker 4: they're like, we're gonna give you a fifteen grand to
Speaker 4: post a photo with a way to.
Speaker 2: Blank I love a way to blanket, by the way, Yeah.
Speaker 4: I mean it makes you feel comfortable thing. But I
Speaker 4: was just like, what this is two thousand and eight.
Speaker 4: I'm like, what the hell is this?
Speaker 1: What do you mean?
Speaker 4: And I was like I get to keep what percent
Speaker 4: of this for a photo? And so that's why I
Speaker 4: kind of like learned the industry and I was like,
Speaker 4: there's something here. And for a year I was like
Speaker 4: working with CFOs of companies that earn hundreds of millions
Speaker 4: of dollars and billions of dollars and then on weekends
Speaker 4: doing like appearances to like cash in and do social
Speaker 4: media stuff. And then after a year, I was like,
Speaker 4: this business is is too big to ignore. So I
Speaker 4: stepped into the finance and career navigation side of the
Speaker 4: business with my platform that was derived from social media,
Speaker 4: and I have never looked back. I haven't been in
Speaker 4: banking since. I wrote two books. One's on love and money,
Speaker 4: one is on career navigation, like being on the road
Speaker 4: you imagine as opposed to the road and the blueprint
Speaker 4: that life puts us on.
Speaker 1: I started.
Speaker 4: I started an agency, so we manage about eighty to
Speaker 4: eighty five different public figures exclusively.
Speaker 1: What you do.
Speaker 2: What's the agency called.
Speaker 1: It's called URTM rewired talent management and you.
Speaker 3: Guys met so you're running that that's your main day
Speaker 3: to day because that.
Speaker 1: Sounds the agency is honestly.
Speaker 4: So, I have a podcast called Trading Secrets, and what
Speaker 4: we do is we talk all about money and pop culture,
Speaker 4: so real housewives, it could be a Rod Gronk, it
Speaker 4: could be one of the sharks from Shark Tank. Can
Speaker 4: we talk about like where do you make your money?
Speaker 4: How where do you lose your money? And so I
Speaker 4: do one episode every single year where I talk exactly
Speaker 4: how much money I've made and still my number one
Speaker 4: income source and I know you talk a lot about
Speaker 4: it is my own creator pages. It's been a seven
Speaker 4: figure business since since two thousand. But the profitability on
Speaker 4: that is still larger than the agency is. There's so
Speaker 4: much cost with an agency and.
Speaker 2: What is it?
Speaker 3: Yeah, because it's it's not direct to consumer. It's like
Speaker 3: it's more bulky, more weeds, more infrastructure.
Speaker 1: What about exactly?
Speaker 2: So what is is it?
Speaker 3: Brand deals or is there some creative way that you've
Speaker 3: come up with making money like other anythings you're gatekeeping?
Speaker 4: I mean, I don't know gatekeeping, I wouldn't say, but
Speaker 4: the thing is we're a boutique, so we'll represent talent directly.
Speaker 2: No for you.
Speaker 3: You you said you are making the most on your
Speaker 3: creator pages. I'm saying you personally, Yeah, what's what's the
Speaker 3: thing on on content creation? It's brand deals, it's the products,
Speaker 3: Like what's the what's the biggest rain maker?
Speaker 4: So the biggest I mean, like I joke around about it.
Speaker 4: I call it like my Coldgate model. And the Coldgate
Speaker 4: model was you get off the show, you have a
Speaker 4: ton of relevancy from whatever's happening, and Coldgate will come
Speaker 4: to you with a toothpaste deal or a tooth brush deal,
Speaker 4: and everyone brushes their teeth. So you get a good
Speaker 4: rate and you do the deal and you get paid.
Speaker 1: Well.
Speaker 4: The problem with the Coldgate deal is the next season,
Speaker 4: the next show, your relevancy isn't the same, Your following
Speaker 4: is not the same, maybe your community is not the same.
Speaker 4: Everyone's got teeth, everyone brushes them. And after there was
Speaker 4: a year that happened where I don't know if you
Speaker 4: know Tyler Cameron, I joke around, like, you figure, he's taller,
Speaker 4: he's better looking. He comes on the next season and
Speaker 4: he gets the Coldgate deal, and now my rate's down
Speaker 4: and That's where I was like, I got to do
Speaker 4: something to figure out how to build sustainability in some
Speaker 4: form of niche. And that's why I jumped into this
Speaker 4: specific niche of the finance and career navigation. And I
Speaker 4: recognize that there aren't many business creators out there, finance
Speaker 4: creators that have a ninety five percent women following that
Speaker 4: also can touch lanes of pop culture and business. And
Speaker 4: that's where I was able to differentiate with majority of
Speaker 4: the deals I'm doing are like in the Fortune one
Speaker 4: hundred Fortune five hundred companies, but they're all different integrations.
Speaker 4: It could be appearances, it could be speaking, could be commercial, yes,
Speaker 4: it could be in real think.
Speaker 3: A little bit of crame the guy you know, the
Speaker 3: guy from CNBC Kramer, Susie Orman, you know that type
Speaker 3: of thing where you're giving people like advice and how
Speaker 3: to invest. But the eye candy and being attractive is
Speaker 3: good because the women are like listening, they're paying attention.
Speaker 4: I'll take it. Yeah, But it's also one oh one.
Speaker 4: It's like making things a little bit more relatable, like
Speaker 4: S and P. Five hundred majority I did a poll.
Speaker 4: I was like, tell me right now, S in P.
Speaker 4: Five hundreds crash and tell me, you know, if you
Speaker 4: could explain it in three sentences, and ninety one percent
Speaker 4: of my two hundred and fifty thousand people that responded
Speaker 4: said they couldn't do it. So instead of making that
Speaker 4: a complicated subject with which most people do in finance,
Speaker 4: I think it's it's set up to create kind of
Speaker 4: like bullshit. So it sounds confusing, but it's not. I'll
Speaker 4: just be like, all right, imagine you go to a
Speaker 4: grocery store, right, instead of getting like one item, you're
Speaker 4: gonna get fifteen different items in your basket. And essentially
Speaker 4: that sp five hundred is just imagine five hundred different
Speaker 4: items at the grocery store that are a little piece
Speaker 4: of each company in the five hundred biggest companies in
Speaker 4: the country, and so you'll own that whole basket as
Speaker 4: opposed to just owning one stock. So I don't know,
Speaker 4: making things like that.
Speaker 3: Like you explained like Berkshire Hathaway and like a fund
Speaker 3: and like what they're invested in things like that exactly.
Speaker 2: So where are you on bitcoin?
Speaker 4: On bitcoin, I mean, it's the administration right now is
Speaker 4: very favorable for bitcoin.
Speaker 2: I think it's it's very favorable.
Speaker 1: Well, for Trump exactly. But it's very it's it's very
Speaker 1: it's a deregulated market.
Speaker 4: I honestly don't own I don't have any exposure anymore
Speaker 4: to bitcoin, which I'm starting to think twice about.
Speaker 1: But like, I'm not a I'm not like a huge,
Speaker 1: huge crypto guy. Are you? Are you into the crypto game?
Speaker 3: I don't understand it, but I have some just because
Speaker 3: I have some diversification and want to not miss it
Speaker 3: if you know, nothing crazy as it. Proportionally, I am invested.
Speaker 3: I personally invest in real estate. I own four homes,
Speaker 3: which is a lot for a person with you know,
Speaker 3: just me and my daughter. But and I obviously am
Speaker 3: heavily invested in the stock market and a lot of
Speaker 3: other things, but and businesses. But I do love personal
Speaker 3: real estate because you can use it. And I've been
Speaker 3: extraordinarily successful and profitable in that in that because you're
Speaker 3: buying it for yourself and so you have a dual
Speaker 3: intention when you're purchasing every single time.
Speaker 4: Is someone who is in the creator game because for
Speaker 4: myself and my agency, but also obviously you are too,
Speaker 4: Like there's so much change in it and with the
Speaker 4: CpG brands that you've brought to life and exited like what,
Speaker 4: I don't know. You're seeing Poppy, You're seeing a lot
Speaker 4: of nutrition Celsius, now you're seeing AI creators. Like where
Speaker 4: do you think this whole world of like the creator
Speaker 4: game is going as it connects to business because yours
Speaker 4: and your socials are blowing up.
Speaker 1: It's crazy every day.
Speaker 2: Yeah, they are blowing up.
Speaker 3: I think I still think, well, there will be something
Speaker 3: very original about individuals versus AI, like people, you know,
Speaker 3: you can't you can clone a dog, but like it's
Speaker 3: not your dog, you know. I mean, so it's like
Speaker 3: AI is like cloning something or a person in a
Speaker 3: way or kind. But I don't think it can completely
Speaker 3: replace a person. But it is scary. I mean, there
Speaker 3: have been quotes out there that people think came for me,
Speaker 3: and you can sort of just tell, you know, but
Speaker 3: it'll get smarter and smarter. I'm invested in Steve Cohen's
Speaker 3: AI fund because he's a friend of mine and I'm
Speaker 3: a crowdsourcer, and then I ultimately make my own decision
Speaker 3: of many things. If it's marketing, if it's products, if
Speaker 3: it's direct to consumer, if it's communication, it's one hundred
Speaker 3: percent me.
Speaker 2: If it's content, it's me.
Speaker 3: If it's something like bitcoin that I don't understand or
Speaker 3: AI that I don't understand per se fully, and a
Speaker 3: couple of people are saying you should get into this
Speaker 3: or you should invest in this, then I'll figure out
Speaker 3: who the best person is. And because I'm friends with
Speaker 3: Steve and Alex Cohen and I'm invested in their other fund.
Speaker 3: If he's doing something, if he's if he's starting a
Speaker 3: clown school, I'm investing. So that's why I'm invested in
Speaker 3: the AI fund with him.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean that's a good guy to follow.
Speaker 4: What's what's your take out all the obviously so much
Speaker 4: as reality TV. I mean I'm just curious, like what
Speaker 4: do you think about do you I got my start
Speaker 4: on reality TV into the space, what like do you
Speaker 4: think reality TV is?
Speaker 1: Like? Are you bullish or bearish.
Speaker 2: On the barity? No, this is the thing.
Speaker 3: I've always been pretty good at knowing when to leave
Speaker 3: a party, and it's usually before it really like it
Speaker 3: feels like it's popping off, but I feel like it's
Speaker 3: getting tired, and that's just who I am socially. Also,
Speaker 3: it's like when it's about to like be at the
Speaker 3: full peak. I'm like, I did it.
Speaker 2: We did it.
Speaker 3: And that's how I was for Reality TV. The first
Speaker 3: time I left because it just was toxic. But I
Speaker 3: came back because I knew it wasn't over and I
Speaker 3: missed the connection to the audience. The second time I left,
Speaker 3: I still you know, I looked at the other people
Speaker 3: that stayed and I was like, you guys are on
Speaker 3: the Poseidon adventure, like you going the wrong way. And
Speaker 3: you would have thought I was leaving millions of dollars
Speaker 3: for a couple of months work when I left, and
Speaker 3: you would have thought I thought too, like wow, you know,
Speaker 3: my business managers are like, why aren't you just taking
Speaker 3: this for another couple of seasons? And I didn't have
Speaker 3: these big goals of what I'm doing now. I left
Speaker 3: to work on my charity and do the podcast and
Speaker 3: just like tone it down a little. I was in
Speaker 3: a relationship and didn't want to be there. I just
Speaker 3: didn't want.
Speaker 2: To be there.
Speaker 3: It was soul crushing and I thought it was gross.
Speaker 3: And now everything's derivative, everything's a remix. I mean, I
Speaker 3: remember the first photoshoot really on Reality TV was my
Speaker 3: Social Life photo shooting, like charity events and all these
Speaker 3: things that now are like the formula or you know,
Speaker 3: the arguments were so low stakes then and they were
Speaker 3: so entertaining because Kelly Bensone saying I'm up here and
Speaker 3: you're down here, like broke what was barely the Internet
Speaker 3: at the time, and now you have to be doing
Speaker 3: something so vile and people are turned off. You know,
Speaker 3: people are turned off. It's just it's on its last legs.
Speaker 3: In many ways, there's not that much to do. The
Speaker 3: ratings are down. It seems tragic. I was out with
Speaker 3: a pretty big celebrity recently and they were talking about
Speaker 3: reality TV, and I'm like, what is it now?
Speaker 2: Like what is the Housewives now?
Speaker 3: They're like, it's just very desperate, and because I can't
Speaker 3: see it for what it is because I don't watch
Speaker 3: it and it's not on my radar anymore.
Speaker 2: It's like four boyfriends ago.
Speaker 3: It feels like that X that used to think about
Speaker 3: all the time, and then they're like three four boyfriends ago.
Speaker 2: You don't really think about them at all. They might,
Speaker 2: you know, once a year.
Speaker 3: So I don't know, and I think that they did
Speaker 3: push the envelope too much, which is what the really
Speaker 3: reality Reckoning was about. I think they got you know,
Speaker 3: it's cool till it's not. It's like there's a day
Speaker 3: that it breaks, and it's like people get what it is.
Speaker 3: So I don't know, it's hard to advise people and
Speaker 3: they ask if they should go on.
Speaker 2: I wouldn't even know how to.
Speaker 3: So many people in it and so many products, and
Speaker 3: the formula has been sort of out there.
Speaker 2: What do you think?
Speaker 4: I think it's completely oversaturated. But I do think there's
Speaker 4: like one or two shows that pop every single year,
Speaker 4: and the people that are on those shows are benefiting
Speaker 4: in like insane ways.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 3: They're going, well, like Love Island is the thing, right now,
Speaker 3: love Island?
Speaker 4: Right, So like you went out a bartender who made
Speaker 4: who's their their career AND's good for that. But they're like,
Speaker 4: let's say it's fifty grand and they go on the show.
Speaker 4: They're having fun, they're getting crazy, they're doing their thing,
Speaker 4: and then the next year they're going to make five million,
Speaker 4: Like that's a real thing.
Speaker 2: Well right, And I guess, yeah, I guess I don't
Speaker 2: know that much. Like I guess yeah.
Speaker 3: Vander Pump Rules has peaked and crashed, but like Summer
Speaker 3: house or the houses.
Speaker 2: I guess those do well. And then Love Island.
Speaker 3: Yeah, if you're talking about exceptions, of course, there are
Speaker 3: exceptions to start up center, exceptions to going to Hollywood
Speaker 3: and being an actor too and being successful. I'm just saying,
Speaker 3: by and large, before everybody was crushing it, and now
Speaker 3: I think it's very specific examples.
Speaker 4: I think that's the crazy thing about like social you
Speaker 4: bring up Hollywood. Like I saw there's a post the
Speaker 4: other day and it was what is Timothy shall May
Speaker 4: and Kylie Jenner and they're saying on his last video
Speaker 4: how many hours it took and how many days? And
Speaker 4: it was it was extensive and I think he got
Speaker 4: paid three million dollars for that, but Kylie Jenner makes
Speaker 4: three million on three posts, which you know how much
Speaker 4: time does that?
Speaker 1: And that's where the world changed.
Speaker 3: So now we're getting to so this is for me
Speaker 3: like all the time, it almost all the time, does
Speaker 3: somebody else in the entertainment industry who's pretty big or
Speaker 3: famous say to me like we should do a show together,
Speaker 3: And I'm always thinking, and then the audience is always like,
Speaker 3: when are you gonna do a show again? When are
Speaker 3: you back on my TV? And there's no numb you
Speaker 3: can't pay. They can't find a number that a TV
Speaker 3: show could pay me to. Go today, Go into the city,
Speaker 3: put some makeup on, go to a conference room. Meet
Speaker 3: some suits that's on the forty seventh floor that took
Speaker 3: a fucking security path to get in there. Walk up there,
Speaker 3: sit down. Let these suits pretend they know what's gonna sell.
Speaker 3: Tell me, eh, we're not really doing that. That's not
Speaker 3: doing that. Well these network executives that are literally mid
Speaker 3: level and negation. Okay, then we're gonna decide we're gonna
Speaker 3: let's say we're gonna do it. We're gonna do it
Speaker 3: four months from Thursday. We're gonna No, first we have
Speaker 3: to sell it to the network, you know, these are
Speaker 3: the executives. But then able to sell it, then in
Speaker 3: four months, we're gonna you know, we said yes, we'll
Speaker 3: fast track that contract. That's going to take three months.
Speaker 3: Four months, we're gonna get up and start filming. But wait,
Speaker 3: there's more. Let's bulky film and put makeup on every
Speaker 3: day for three months to film it. Then let's have
Speaker 3: it end. Then let's wait six months, but wait, there's more.
Speaker 3: Then in six months, let's go do a press tour
Speaker 3: for a week that Today's but fuck that?
Speaker 1: Fuck that? Yeah?
Speaker 2: Or I could just.
Speaker 3: Post a video last week of me and Miami and
Speaker 3: get millions of views, or go to Chanelle get rejected
Speaker 3: and have two hundred and fifty million views on.
Speaker 4: That, right, And you think about the numbers up. So
Speaker 4: even if you do all that bullshit what you just said,
Speaker 4: and then you actually get it to network, what are
Speaker 4: the ratings going to be and how many views are
Speaker 4: you going to get? And you could do that and
Speaker 4: pump that out in three to four videos. I just wonder,
Speaker 4: like with your content, Like where the thing I admire
Speaker 4: about you is you just don't give a shit. And
Speaker 4: I'm just like a boy, you just don't give a shit.
Speaker 4: But I'm like, how do you?
Speaker 1: Like?
Speaker 4: You'll trash brands, but you'll build them up. You'll take
Speaker 4: people out, but you'll you'll most people like you just
Speaker 4: don't care, Like, how do you in this space? I
Speaker 4: think anyone that's listening to this, like you have to
Speaker 4: be on social and any you could be a teacher,
Speaker 4: not for profit, or you could be trying to run
Speaker 4: for president United States. Like the impact of social today
Speaker 4: in every single position is so important. But where like
Speaker 4: I feel like your line of I don't give a
Speaker 4: shit is just like it's here, it does. There is
Speaker 4: no line you're gonna get a hot.
Speaker 3: Do you drop a long a line because I don't.
Speaker 3: The way something is said is critical. And in the
Speaker 3: past I've said some things that have hit sideways because
Speaker 3: of the way that they were said, and it just
Speaker 3: didn't need to be said that way. So I'm going
Speaker 3: to first of all, not everything needs to be said,
Speaker 3: but I'm going to say it if I have a
Speaker 3: strong opinion about it, but it's about the way that
Speaker 3: it is said.
Speaker 2: And also if you go and you really do dig,
Speaker 2: it will come.
Speaker 3: Someone might perceive that I'm trashing someone because I'm saying
Speaker 3: that I don't agree with something that somebody did. But
Speaker 3: you'll never find me criticizing someone's physical appearance, their sexuality, height,
Speaker 3: their you know, I won't just give a blind like
Speaker 3: that person's a loser.
Speaker 2: I would. I would not.
Speaker 3: So like I'm saying, who in the hell is advising
Speaker 3: this person? How could they make this? I'm talking about
Speaker 3: their business decision, their marketing decision, they're what they said decision.
Speaker 3: So it's always it's always something that may be perceived
Speaker 3: because somebody disagrees with me or they like the person
Speaker 3: as me trashing that, but it's never actually below the belt.
Speaker 3: It's never actually me trashing. It's my opinion of what
Speaker 3: they have chosen to do as a public figure or
Speaker 3: a public brand.
Speaker 1: That makes sense.
Speaker 4: But even like it, like the like the Baldoni case,
Speaker 4: I saw you kind of get into it a little
Speaker 4: yeah and you and like you'll start the video with
Speaker 4: like I might get canceled for this? Do you ever
Speaker 4: have to deal with the reaper cushions of what you're saying?
Speaker 4: And like, I don't know, like the just the legality
Speaker 4: of it.
Speaker 2: It's not real.
Speaker 3: And like I had a big actor call me who
Speaker 3: was freaking out because they were being dragged on social
Speaker 3: on like one account but it got a million views
Speaker 3: and they were like do should I go comment?
Speaker 2: Should I say something? Should I go?
Speaker 3: You know, because I could call the posters, are you
Speaker 3: on your fucking what are you talking about? Even saying
Speaker 3: like are you new? No, shut the fuck up, it's
Speaker 3: not even real, and he was like wait, but well
Speaker 3: I was like, no, it's not real. Just stop. You
Speaker 3: call me in two days that this thing hasn't rinsed out.
Speaker 3: Nobody cares.
Speaker 2: It's not important.
Speaker 3: And I've done that with pretty big people on social
Speaker 3: that have like ten million, twenty million real followers, and
Speaker 3: I've advised them because I feel like I could see
Speaker 3: things from a marketing and like messaging perspective pretty clearly.
Speaker 2: So I'm going to prove it.
Speaker 3: So JLO was dragged and canceled, just headlined the AMA
Speaker 3: killed it.
Speaker 1: How's that?
Speaker 2: Kaylee Bieber?
Speaker 3: You would have thought her career was over her versus
Speaker 3: Selena her doing this with justin her, you know, like
Speaker 3: something she posted, like something about her skincare canceled, she's done,
Speaker 3: Haley Baby's or she's a billionaire now, Like it's not
Speaker 3: real and you got to just hold onto the steering
Speaker 3: wheel not too tight and you can't let go.
Speaker 4: But there's some I think there's there's something that is
Speaker 4: I think there's something real happening right now, which I'm
Speaker 4: curious your take on since we're here. Like if you
Speaker 4: go back seventeen seventy six, you go back hundreds of
Speaker 4: years ago when there was an argument, right Alexander Hamilton,
Speaker 4: you go do a duel, you walk across each other,
Speaker 4: you take ten steps, you shoot each other, you put
Speaker 4: your hand up, like that's how it worked these days.
Speaker 4: Obviously that's not the case, but there. I think what
Speaker 4: you're starting to see now is character assassination in ways
Speaker 4: that it's like kind of the same type of vibe,
Speaker 4: but the attempt of teams trying to cancel other teams,
Speaker 4: which could be it's sometimes the equivalent of literally like
Speaker 4: a killing someone like you can assassinate with Like I
Speaker 4: think you're starting to see it now that like teams
Speaker 4: in these like groups of mobs can assassinate someone's character
Speaker 4: so much online that it could it could wipe them up.
Speaker 4: I mean, do you agree with that?
Speaker 3: I mean it depends on it depends on the foundation.
Speaker 3: If they're only frosting, like they became famous last year,
Speaker 3: get lights Out. But if they're like if it's cake,
Speaker 3: you know, like whatever it is with Lake Lively, like
Speaker 3: she she's been in this industry.
Speaker 2: For a while. There is cake.
Speaker 3: There there are movies, There are met galiluks, there is beauty,
Speaker 3: there is gossip girl. There are many generations you're talking
Speaker 3: to at different stages of you know this this ladder
Speaker 3: and so she was a time most fascinating person. Now
Speaker 3: Candice Owens will say she paid for something and she
Speaker 3: gave what.
Speaker 2: It doesn't matter.
Speaker 3: They've moved ticket sales in the world, the two of them,
Speaker 3: so you know they're still here. Have they ramped him
Speaker 3: up and did he become more relevant?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 3: Yeah, but like you know, these two went to that
Speaker 3: SNL thing. It kept us talking. Jlo hosted the AMAS
Speaker 3: like a cat, So they're strong people. These people didn't
Speaker 3: get to be a less celebrities by not being strong.
Speaker 3: And like I said, Haley's weathered a storm or two too.
Speaker 3: So I'm not gonna bet against Blake Lively or Justin
Speaker 3: baldoniate this way. But I'm definitely not betting against Ryan
Speaker 3: Reynolds and Blake Lively. Am I allowed to say that
Speaker 3: this thing is like a fucker East sideways for all
Speaker 3: these different reasons that I have institutional knowledge on because
Speaker 3: I've literally know both their teams and have heard from
Speaker 3: both their teams in different ways when I was speaking
Speaker 3: about this. Yeah, but uh, there are very few people
Speaker 3: who I'm going to be like call the fight. It's
Speaker 3: I mean without criminal activity, because people are so over cancelation.
Speaker 3: Cancelation has been canceled, so without criminal activity. It's hard
Speaker 3: to really cancel someone who is at has was at
Speaker 3: the top of their game unless it's something real.
Speaker 1: So is there I mean, I don't know.
Speaker 4: I grew up in a space that like, at least
Speaker 4: I was taught by parent My parents is like take
Speaker 4: the high road and you know, lead with integrity and class.
Speaker 4: I feel like we live in a world now, in
Speaker 4: social and in life. And to your point, it's like
Speaker 4: a lot of what you're saying too is like when
Speaker 4: you create the headline and you're the cake, it's fine,
Speaker 4: it's probably gonna propel you, not hurt you. You'll be
Speaker 4: in the game. But today it feels like kindness can
Speaker 4: be mistaken for weakness and almost like not stepping into
Speaker 4: like conflict can actually beat the shit out of you.
Speaker 4: And like I've always been someone that like step whether
Speaker 4: it's an X or something like that, I've always stepped
Speaker 4: away from it. I'm always kind of like say about no,
Speaker 4: I'm just not gonna I'm not gonna step into it.
Speaker 4: But you're someone that like you're a bulldog, You're right
Speaker 4: in there.
Speaker 1: You know you could do.
Speaker 3: It either way if you I've seen this on social
Speaker 3: media with people that are very famous on social and
Speaker 3: then I've seen it with people that are very mainstream famous,
Speaker 3: like I don't know why, I just jumped into my mind,
Speaker 3: like Drew Barrymore, and the fact that there show went
Speaker 3: back on during the pandemic, like that was the most
Speaker 3: important thing in the world. Her choice, like because people
Speaker 3: are bored and there's a feeding friends and you say,
Speaker 3: they want to jump into that, and it felt real
Speaker 3: for her in the moment, and she felt they need
Speaker 3: to make a statement, which doubled down and made it worse.
Speaker 2: And it happens with other people.
Speaker 3: So you either come in and you give the statement
Speaker 3: and then you made the statement, they hate it they
Speaker 3: like it, or you keep going, or you completely gaslight it.
Speaker 3: You just don't add gas to the fire. You let
Speaker 3: it rinse a little once in a while. You put
Speaker 3: in something that is like just so you're still alive.
Speaker 3: Otherwise you like the bully that got beaten down. Ooh,
Speaker 3: the bully doesn't come out anymore. You can't be I mean,
Speaker 3: the bullied one can't come out. It doesn't come out anymore.
Speaker 3: So you have to be someone who like tiptoes in
Speaker 3: and just is like doing content light when you're in
Speaker 3: the middle of that, or you hit them and you're like, fuck,
Speaker 3: fuck it, this is what happened.
Speaker 2: I'm saying this. Now we're gonna move the fuck on,
Speaker 2: and then you just keep going. Either way it works.
Speaker 3: But cancelation is canceled unless it's criminal activity, unless you've
Speaker 3: done something horribly horribly wrong.
Speaker 1: Have you ever almost been canceled?
Speaker 3: Not full on, because I do think I have a
Speaker 3: bit of cake too, But I had one incident where
Speaker 3: I said something and it was at the wrong time
Speaker 3: and it was a little early. I've said many things
Speaker 3: that are early, but I've not said anything that has
Speaker 3: not come around to be true eventually. Like so I
Speaker 3: said something early and then lost a couple hundred thousand
Speaker 3: dollars in brand deals in like one day, and it
Speaker 3: felt very real. But I was on the inside of TikTok. No,
Speaker 3: that was not TikTok. That was on Twitter. But one
Speaker 3: time I was on the inside of TikTok thinking everything
Speaker 3: was real. At the same time while selling a book
Speaker 3: and my book agent didn't even know what was going
Speaker 3: on because I was like in Florida, thinking the storm
Speaker 3: that's happening in Florida and Miami is happening in New
Speaker 3: York and they were like, what are you talking about?
Speaker 3: Because I have dual residency. They're on Instagram. They're over
Speaker 3: on Instagram where I have a residency also, and they're like,
Speaker 3: what are you talking about? So TikTok's fucked up in
Speaker 3: that way. It's very intense.
Speaker 1: What do you mean when you say early you're early
Speaker 1: to something? What does that mean?
Speaker 3: I said something about someone that people hadn't jumped on
Speaker 3: and figured out for themselves yet, that the society and
Speaker 3: the media hadn't caught up to me yet. Happens a
Speaker 3: lot like like if someone had said Harvey Weinstein's a
Speaker 3: piece of shit, or any of these people in Hollywood
Speaker 3: that I know from growing up in Hollywood that they're
Speaker 3: all who the scumbags are because I've seen them live
Speaker 3: and direct. So then you have a list actresses acting
Speaker 3: like after doing seventy six movies with these people, I
Speaker 3: never saw it, Like, it's like, shut up, it's not true.
Speaker 1: Why is everyone so quiet?
Speaker 3: Like?
Speaker 1: Is it quiet?
Speaker 4: Just it is it scared minds for impact of a
Speaker 4: reputation and career.
Speaker 3: Yes, because most of them this is not their primary
Speaker 3: source of income. So they're like in a more mainstream world,
Speaker 3: and it's scary over here. You got to know how
Speaker 3: to drive the car.
Speaker 1: That's a hard car to drive.
Speaker 3: I said, I would imagine you've been good. You're good
Speaker 3: at that. I don't know about that much about you.
Speaker 3: You seem like you'd be okay about that little nervous.
Speaker 3: You're more cautious than I am.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm definitely more cautiously. I mean I have.
Speaker 4: Yeah, Like, if you gave me a scale of like
Speaker 4: a G to R rated, I would say, like, my
Speaker 4: shit's like PG, like at the amazing.
Speaker 2: PG, And what do you think I am?
Speaker 1: I would say, well, yeah, you're a triple act. I'm scared.
Speaker 1: I would say, you're like PG thirteen, you're
Speaker 3: Fuck with R, right, Yeah, up with R.