1 00:00:05,880 --> 00:00:14,360 Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories with 2 00:00:14,480 --> 00:00:18,560 Speaker 1: Nancy Grace. I'm executive producer Jackie Howard. Police now have 3 00:00:18,640 --> 00:00:21,440 Speaker 1: a suspect in the shooting death of twenty seventy year 4 00:00:21,440 --> 00:00:24,440 Speaker 1: old Joanna Pica. She was shot in the face while 5 00:00:24,480 --> 00:00:27,840 Speaker 1: holding her four month old baby, and also her four 6 00:00:27,920 --> 00:00:30,160 Speaker 1: year old was in the back seat at the time. 7 00:00:30,600 --> 00:00:34,479 Speaker 1: This suspect is now on the run. Police are offering 8 00:00:34,479 --> 00:00:37,720 Speaker 1: a twenty thousand dollars reward. Joining me now is Joe 9 00:00:37,720 --> 00:00:41,760 Speaker 1: scob Morgan, Professor Forensics at Jacksonville State University. He is 10 00:00:41,800 --> 00:00:45,879 Speaker 1: also author of Blood Beneath My Feet. Joe, There's a 11 00:00:45,920 --> 00:00:49,680 Speaker 1: lot to talk about in this case. Let's talk first 12 00:00:49,800 --> 00:00:53,120 Speaker 1: about the fact that this woman was shot multiple times 13 00:00:53,600 --> 00:00:56,920 Speaker 1: in the face. You know, when they found miss Pica, 14 00:00:57,040 --> 00:01:00,400 Speaker 1: she was actually in the front seat of her vehicle, 15 00:01:00,600 --> 00:01:05,240 Speaker 1: actually in the driver's side of the vehicle, seated there, 16 00:01:06,080 --> 00:01:11,080 Speaker 1: and according to the police, when they arrived at the scene, 17 00:01:11,959 --> 00:01:16,600 Speaker 1: they were unable to detect that she was actually holding 18 00:01:17,280 --> 00:01:22,679 Speaker 1: a four month old baby, still clutching this baby in 19 00:01:22,720 --> 00:01:25,640 Speaker 1: her arms. Now, they didn't go into graphic detail, but 20 00:01:25,640 --> 00:01:27,840 Speaker 1: I can tell you from my experience that more than 21 00:01:27,959 --> 00:01:33,000 Speaker 1: likely this was as a result of just the tremendous 22 00:01:33,480 --> 00:01:37,720 Speaker 1: amount of blood that had literally poured down onto this 23 00:01:37,840 --> 00:01:41,520 Speaker 1: little baby and onto the baby's clothing, the mother's clothing. 24 00:01:41,959 --> 00:01:46,720 Speaker 1: So essentially the baby was camouflaged in blood. Now, in 25 00:01:46,720 --> 00:01:52,280 Speaker 1: this environment, everybody can envision what a tight space in 26 00:01:52,320 --> 00:01:54,480 Speaker 1: the front seat of a car is, or just in 27 00:01:54,520 --> 00:01:57,800 Speaker 1: a car in general. It's a tight, confined space that 28 00:01:57,960 --> 00:02:02,480 Speaker 1: maybe you know, they're in Florida, it's summertime, maybe the 29 00:02:02,480 --> 00:02:05,840 Speaker 1: air is running, so the windows are up. People can 30 00:02:05,960 --> 00:02:10,840 Speaker 1: understand this. It's very confining and so can you imagine 31 00:02:10,880 --> 00:02:17,200 Speaker 1: within that space, someone seated in the front seat passenger seat, 32 00:02:17,720 --> 00:02:21,160 Speaker 1: takes a weapon out and points this weapon and we 33 00:02:21,240 --> 00:02:25,480 Speaker 1: can only assume probably within about eighteen to maybe twenty 34 00:02:25,520 --> 00:02:29,360 Speaker 1: inches at the furthest distance away from the target and 35 00:02:29,360 --> 00:02:33,840 Speaker 1: then pulls the trigger over and over and over and 36 00:02:34,120 --> 00:02:38,360 Speaker 1: over again. The report or the sound, the echo would 37 00:02:38,440 --> 00:02:42,880 Speaker 1: have been tremendous within the car. And it wasn't just 38 00:02:43,360 --> 00:02:46,280 Speaker 1: the four month old baby that hurt this There was 39 00:02:46,360 --> 00:02:50,720 Speaker 1: a four year old seated in the back seat of 40 00:02:50,760 --> 00:02:54,120 Speaker 1: the vehicle as well. This was his mother in the 41 00:02:54,160 --> 00:02:56,520 Speaker 1: front seat. Now, the four month old might not have 42 00:02:56,639 --> 00:02:59,440 Speaker 1: memories of this, but let me tell you something, at 43 00:02:59,480 --> 00:03:03,040 Speaker 1: four year old than the backseat, this will haunt him 44 00:03:03,160 --> 00:03:07,080 Speaker 1: more than likely until the day he dies. The suspect 45 00:03:07,160 --> 00:03:10,359 Speaker 1: in this case, Joe Benjamin Baby Williams is thirty eight, 46 00:03:11,120 --> 00:03:14,480 Speaker 1: is the father of the four month old. So that 47 00:03:14,560 --> 00:03:17,280 Speaker 1: in itself makes you wonder how someone could do this. 48 00:03:17,400 --> 00:03:22,280 Speaker 1: So you were talking about the distance in the car. 49 00:03:22,560 --> 00:03:25,480 Speaker 1: We're assuming that he was also inside the car. We 50 00:03:25,520 --> 00:03:29,000 Speaker 1: don't know this yet, but given that if we believe 51 00:03:29,080 --> 00:03:31,000 Speaker 1: he might have been in the car when this happened, 52 00:03:31,680 --> 00:03:34,600 Speaker 1: more than likely he's covered with blood as well. In 53 00:03:34,639 --> 00:03:38,520 Speaker 1: this particular case, the perpetrator would have been literally showered 54 00:03:39,040 --> 00:03:43,920 Speaker 1: with blood. In this environment, his extended arm the weapon 55 00:03:44,320 --> 00:03:47,960 Speaker 1: and let's just say, for instance, he wasn't inside of 56 00:03:48,040 --> 00:03:52,240 Speaker 1: the vehicle. If he was just standing outside of the 57 00:03:52,320 --> 00:03:55,280 Speaker 1: vehicle and say stuck the weapon inside the window to 58 00:03:55,440 --> 00:03:58,920 Speaker 1: fire at this poor young mother at point blank range 59 00:03:58,920 --> 00:04:01,680 Speaker 1: in the face, his hands and the weapon again are 60 00:04:01,720 --> 00:04:04,960 Speaker 1: still going to be covered in blood. And in addition 61 00:04:05,000 --> 00:04:09,640 Speaker 1: to that, the ceiling, the liner inside of the vehicle, 62 00:04:09,800 --> 00:04:13,160 Speaker 1: also the back of the seat will be covered in 63 00:04:13,160 --> 00:04:15,640 Speaker 1: blood as well. And what's so important about this and 64 00:04:15,800 --> 00:04:21,160 Speaker 1: understanding kind of the nature of this blood staining. You know, 65 00:04:21,320 --> 00:04:25,479 Speaker 1: from a forensics perspective, when we begin to examine blood 66 00:04:25,520 --> 00:04:29,000 Speaker 1: stained patterns, one of the things that we look at 67 00:04:29,120 --> 00:04:33,480 Speaker 1: is we try to judge velocity, and so folks understand, 68 00:04:33,520 --> 00:04:37,080 Speaker 1: if it's low velocity, that's something that could be generated 69 00:04:37,560 --> 00:04:40,320 Speaker 1: maybe perhaps with the punch to the face and you 70 00:04:40,400 --> 00:04:43,320 Speaker 1: have a bloody nose and blood is going to be 71 00:04:43,920 --> 00:04:48,160 Speaker 1: kind of large droplets that will be scattered everywhere. Then 72 00:04:48,200 --> 00:04:50,800 Speaker 1: you have medium velocity, which if folks at home will 73 00:04:50,800 --> 00:04:54,360 Speaker 1: think if someone was struck with a hammer or baseball bat, 74 00:04:54,600 --> 00:04:57,640 Speaker 1: the droplets would be smaller because the velocity would increase. 75 00:04:57,680 --> 00:05:01,200 Speaker 1: But when it comes to a firearm, that's what we recall. 76 00:05:01,400 --> 00:05:06,039 Speaker 1: That's what we call high velocity blood staining. And the 77 00:05:06,160 --> 00:05:09,960 Speaker 1: significance of that is did he punch her beforehand, did 78 00:05:09,960 --> 00:05:12,839 Speaker 1: he slap her around, or was this just a straight 79 00:05:12,920 --> 00:05:17,360 Speaker 1: up shooting. If there is high velocity blood droplets within 80 00:05:17,400 --> 00:05:21,320 Speaker 1: this environment, will know just by virtue of the way 81 00:05:21,400 --> 00:05:25,400 Speaker 1: this interior the car is assessed that that was generated 82 00:05:25,839 --> 00:05:29,560 Speaker 1: from the high muscle velocity of this weapon as those 83 00:05:29,640 --> 00:05:33,560 Speaker 1: rounds slammed over and over and over again into their target, 84 00:05:33,560 --> 00:05:38,040 Speaker 1: which obviously was this poor woman's face. One thing we 85 00:05:38,080 --> 00:05:41,239 Speaker 1: do know, though, Joe, considering that she was shot multiple 86 00:05:41,240 --> 00:05:45,480 Speaker 1: times in the face, we will really never know whether 87 00:05:45,560 --> 00:05:48,960 Speaker 1: or not she was beaten because these injuries are so 88 00:05:49,760 --> 00:05:53,640 Speaker 1: markedly catastrophic. And what I mean by that is that 89 00:05:53,720 --> 00:05:59,880 Speaker 1: when a high velocity round slams into tissue and bone, 90 00:06:01,440 --> 00:06:05,000 Speaker 1: it's very, very disruptive. So if say, for instance, she 91 00:06:05,120 --> 00:06:10,560 Speaker 1: had been punched beforehand, or struck with something else, it 92 00:06:10,600 --> 00:06:16,120 Speaker 1: would be very difficult to make a determination or delineate 93 00:06:16,240 --> 00:06:19,400 Speaker 1: between these two. That really the only saving grace here 94 00:06:19,600 --> 00:06:21,720 Speaker 1: is going to be the nature of the velocity of 95 00:06:21,760 --> 00:06:25,120 Speaker 1: the blood spatter itself. And you know, it's really hard 96 00:06:25,120 --> 00:06:28,920 Speaker 1: to discuss or understand what the dynamic of this event 97 00:06:29,200 --> 00:06:32,840 Speaker 1: was that led to her death. All we know is 98 00:06:32,880 --> 00:06:38,560 Speaker 1: that per the victim's mother. The mother stated that Joanna 99 00:06:38,680 --> 00:06:44,320 Speaker 1: had agreed to meet the alleged perpetrator at a cemetery 100 00:06:44,520 --> 00:06:49,120 Speaker 1: of all things, at night where his sister was buried, 101 00:06:49,520 --> 00:06:52,080 Speaker 1: and the mother had gone on to say, well, you know, 102 00:06:52,480 --> 00:06:56,039 Speaker 1: she really the victim, really cared for the perpetrator, that 103 00:06:56,080 --> 00:06:58,279 Speaker 1: she had had a child with him, and that he 104 00:06:58,400 --> 00:07:00,880 Speaker 1: just wanted to go there, and you know, she implied 105 00:07:00,960 --> 00:07:04,640 Speaker 1: just to be comforted, And so this poor young woman 106 00:07:04,720 --> 00:07:08,400 Speaker 1: agreed to go to a cemetery at night with these 107 00:07:08,440 --> 00:07:12,160 Speaker 1: small children in transit out there and to sit there 108 00:07:12,280 --> 00:07:13,920 Speaker 1: in the middle of the graveyard in the middle of 109 00:07:13,920 --> 00:07:28,280 Speaker 1: the night and have a talk with him, time stories 110 00:07:28,280 --> 00:07:33,200 Speaker 1: with Nancy, Grace Joe. One of the things we found 111 00:07:33,200 --> 00:07:37,840 Speaker 1: out from the police is that this person Williams, is 112 00:07:38,080 --> 00:07:42,120 Speaker 1: a suspect in other murders. How will they be able 113 00:07:42,160 --> 00:07:45,160 Speaker 1: to connect all this? You know, what's really fascinating is 114 00:07:45,240 --> 00:07:53,640 Speaker 1: that this person who allegedly shot Joanna was intimately involved 115 00:07:53,680 --> 00:07:57,560 Speaker 1: with her, but there's an indication that he might be 116 00:07:57,800 --> 00:08:03,760 Speaker 1: tied or linked to multiple other homicides in the Florida area, 117 00:08:03,840 --> 00:08:06,520 Speaker 1: in the Tampa area. And so when you begin to 118 00:08:06,560 --> 00:08:08,840 Speaker 1: think about that, you think, well, this guy's out on 119 00:08:08,880 --> 00:08:12,720 Speaker 1: the run, he's armed. Well, you know, it's kind of 120 00:08:12,720 --> 00:08:15,560 Speaker 1: like a carpenter, and a carpenter chooses to use a hammer. 121 00:08:16,200 --> 00:08:20,760 Speaker 1: Many times, people that are involved in multiple homicide events 122 00:08:21,200 --> 00:08:23,440 Speaker 1: they choose to use the same tool as well, and 123 00:08:23,480 --> 00:08:26,080 Speaker 1: that's the same weapon. It's something that they're familiar with, 124 00:08:26,120 --> 00:08:28,960 Speaker 1: it's something they get a level of comfort with. So 125 00:08:29,080 --> 00:08:33,440 Speaker 1: from a forensic standpoint when we're discussing ballistic evidence. Let's say, 126 00:08:33,520 --> 00:08:37,920 Speaker 1: for instance, they take projectiles that are recovered at this 127 00:08:37,960 --> 00:08:41,280 Speaker 1: scene where they know he was and possibly was with 128 00:08:41,520 --> 00:08:46,080 Speaker 1: this same weapon. They can retrieve those spent rounds, those 129 00:08:46,160 --> 00:08:50,760 Speaker 1: projectiles that pass through this poor woman's body, probably lodged 130 00:08:51,200 --> 00:08:54,280 Speaker 1: within the vehicle or within her body maybe in a 131 00:08:54,320 --> 00:08:58,080 Speaker 1: couple of cases, and pair those up or match those 132 00:08:58,160 --> 00:09:01,640 Speaker 1: up with these other suspective homicides, and that is a 133 00:09:01,720 --> 00:09:04,640 Speaker 1: huge bit of physical evidence. This is what we call 134 00:09:04,760 --> 00:09:08,240 Speaker 1: linkage in forensic science, or connectivity, where you can kind 135 00:09:08,240 --> 00:09:11,160 Speaker 1: of draw a line that connects all of these seemingly 136 00:09:11,240 --> 00:09:14,480 Speaker 1: maybe before random events or maybe things that police just 137 00:09:14,559 --> 00:09:18,920 Speaker 1: kind of suspected, but now you've got hard, hard evidence. 138 00:09:18,960 --> 00:09:22,520 Speaker 1: Here is just really a shame that this young lady 139 00:09:22,520 --> 00:09:25,720 Speaker 1: had to lose her life. So what about the shell casings, Joe. 140 00:09:25,960 --> 00:09:28,199 Speaker 1: If we make the assumption that he was using a 141 00:09:28,240 --> 00:09:32,160 Speaker 1: semi automatic weapon, which by and large most people carry 142 00:09:32,200 --> 00:09:35,000 Speaker 1: now that carry weapons, as opposed to revolvers that have 143 00:09:35,200 --> 00:09:38,920 Speaker 1: all of the rounds on a little cylinder, these shell casings, 144 00:09:39,040 --> 00:09:43,199 Speaker 1: as they're fired, they are ejected. Well, if you're contained 145 00:09:43,280 --> 00:09:47,400 Speaker 1: within a confined space, guess what, those rounds are not 146 00:09:47,480 --> 00:09:50,480 Speaker 1: going to go bounding out all in the grass or 147 00:09:50,720 --> 00:09:54,040 Speaker 1: down the pavement. They're going to be contained within the 148 00:09:54,040 --> 00:09:58,480 Speaker 1: cockpit of that vehicle. So when they go to recover, 149 00:09:59,559 --> 00:10:02,640 Speaker 1: not you remember I talked about the projectiles that had 150 00:10:02,640 --> 00:10:05,040 Speaker 1: passed through her body and maybe lodged in the seed 151 00:10:05,120 --> 00:10:07,600 Speaker 1: or in the door panels. Not only are they going 152 00:10:07,640 --> 00:10:10,600 Speaker 1: to have that bit of ballistic evidence, you're going to 153 00:10:10,679 --> 00:10:13,640 Speaker 1: have the shell casings that well, you're going to have 154 00:10:13,880 --> 00:10:17,440 Speaker 1: the shell casings as well. And many times these shell 155 00:10:17,480 --> 00:10:20,079 Speaker 1: casings are made out of very soft metal, much of 156 00:10:20,120 --> 00:10:23,640 Speaker 1: the time brass. And what happens with this is that 157 00:10:23,679 --> 00:10:26,439 Speaker 1: there are with semi automatic weapons, you'll see these little 158 00:10:26,920 --> 00:10:32,000 Speaker 1: strided marks on the sides of the casing itself, and 159 00:10:32,400 --> 00:10:37,280 Speaker 1: those are actually ejection marks where the ejector this automatic 160 00:10:37,320 --> 00:10:41,440 Speaker 1: semi automatic process draws the spin casing out and cast 161 00:10:41,480 --> 00:10:44,120 Speaker 1: it aside. Well, that metal is so soft that there 162 00:10:44,120 --> 00:10:46,880 Speaker 1: are very distinctive marks that are made on the sides 163 00:10:46,920 --> 00:10:49,200 Speaker 1: of it and on the base of it. And guess what, 164 00:10:49,920 --> 00:10:53,520 Speaker 1: just like the bullet itself that's fired can be passed, 165 00:10:53,679 --> 00:10:57,360 Speaker 1: can be connected to a weapon because of the rifling marks, 166 00:10:57,880 --> 00:11:01,240 Speaker 1: those striations on that soft brass. They can be matched 167 00:11:01,320 --> 00:11:03,760 Speaker 1: up as well. And again this goes to these other 168 00:11:03,840 --> 00:11:07,840 Speaker 1: suspected homicides that this person might be involved in if 169 00:11:07,840 --> 00:11:11,040 Speaker 1: they recovered those shell cases from those scenes as well. 170 00:11:11,800 --> 00:11:15,280 Speaker 1: From a forensic standpoint, this could be a slam dunk Joe. 171 00:11:15,520 --> 00:11:20,120 Speaker 1: One thing that really strikes me about the horrendous nature 172 00:11:20,280 --> 00:11:24,520 Speaker 1: of this crime. The shooting is bad enough, but to 173 00:11:24,720 --> 00:11:29,040 Speaker 1: shoot the person who is holding your child and is 174 00:11:29,080 --> 00:11:31,400 Speaker 1: the mother of your child. I know you're not a 175 00:11:31,440 --> 00:11:35,760 Speaker 1: forensic psychologist. I get this, but the idea of that 176 00:11:36,040 --> 00:11:39,439 Speaker 1: is just really difficult to grasp. Even the mother of 177 00:11:39,559 --> 00:11:43,480 Speaker 1: Joanna Pica said he's not human. I had kind of 178 00:11:43,480 --> 00:11:49,040 Speaker 1: a difficult time wrapping my head around this idea of 179 00:11:49,040 --> 00:11:52,800 Speaker 1: of an individual that would execute a young mother, and 180 00:11:52,880 --> 00:11:55,960 Speaker 1: not just any young mother, the mother of his child, 181 00:11:56,200 --> 00:12:00,920 Speaker 1: and in front of another child. It really gives you pause, 182 00:12:01,040 --> 00:12:05,000 Speaker 1: doesn't it. Why is it that you know I'm looking 183 00:12:05,040 --> 00:12:07,160 Speaker 1: at this through the lens of an investigator, not so 184 00:12:07,240 --> 00:12:10,200 Speaker 1: much as from the perspective of a forensic psychologist, which 185 00:12:10,200 --> 00:12:13,200 Speaker 1: I'm not. If I were an investigator in this case, 186 00:12:13,240 --> 00:12:15,520 Speaker 1: I'd be thinking, why do you leave the kids alive? 187 00:12:15,920 --> 00:12:19,240 Speaker 1: What is it within you that compels you to shoot 188 00:12:19,280 --> 00:12:25,480 Speaker 1: the mother and then not shoot the children. And I 189 00:12:25,520 --> 00:12:28,760 Speaker 1: think that we can draw some conclusions here. To shoot 190 00:12:28,840 --> 00:12:33,520 Speaker 1: somebody in the face or to really disfigure them gives 191 00:12:33,520 --> 00:12:39,040 Speaker 1: you an indication of anything but mercy. Okay, disfigurement that 192 00:12:39,120 --> 00:12:42,439 Speaker 1: sort of thing. You're sending a message like you hate 193 00:12:42,480 --> 00:12:47,480 Speaker 1: that person. If he had taken this woman, put her 194 00:12:47,520 --> 00:12:50,760 Speaker 1: on her knees, have her lean forward, and shot her 195 00:12:50,840 --> 00:12:56,120 Speaker 1: execution style in that, we could draw another conclusion. But 196 00:12:56,280 --> 00:13:00,160 Speaker 1: you know, at the moment she died, the last thing 197 00:13:00,280 --> 00:13:03,560 Speaker 1: she probably saw was the muzzle flash from that weapon 198 00:13:03,880 --> 00:13:07,559 Speaker 1: illuminating the interior of the car, flashing back in her 199 00:13:07,600 --> 00:13:11,760 Speaker 1: eyes like a brilliant flashbulb. And then that was the 200 00:13:11,840 --> 00:13:15,080 Speaker 1: end of her life. And I really think that it 201 00:13:15,160 --> 00:13:17,800 Speaker 1: goes to the pathology of this guy, what's going on 202 00:13:17,880 --> 00:13:21,760 Speaker 1: in his praying. I can say this, he's dangerous and 203 00:13:21,880 --> 00:13:24,839 Speaker 1: he needs to be caught and brought into justice as 204 00:13:24,880 --> 00:13:28,000 Speaker 1: soon as possible before more people are killed. The Saint 205 00:13:28,000 --> 00:13:31,160 Speaker 1: Pete Police Department agrees with you, this guy is dangerous. 206 00:13:31,559 --> 00:13:36,560 Speaker 1: Benjamin Robert Williams, thirty eight, is considered armed and extremely dangerous. 207 00:13:36,640 --> 00:13:39,440 Speaker 1: He is five feet eight weighs one hundred and thirty 208 00:13:39,440 --> 00:13:43,520 Speaker 1: five pounds. His nickname Manby. There is a twenty thousand 209 00:13:43,600 --> 00:13:47,280 Speaker 1: dollars reward available for his arrest. If you have any 210 00:13:47,320 --> 00:13:50,960 Speaker 1: information on Benjamin william S Wuereamounts, please call one eight 211 00:13:51,040 --> 00:13:56,240 Speaker 1: seven seven wanted two again. That's one eight seven seven 212 00:13:56,600 --> 00:14:02,040 Speaker 1: nine six eight three three two. This is Crime Stories 213 00:14:02,080 --> 00:14:04,280 Speaker 1: with Nancy Grace. I'm Jackie Howard.