1 00:00:01,080 --> 00:00:06,440 Speaker 1: Conversations on life, style, beauty, and relationships. It's the Velvet's 2 00:00:06,480 --> 00:00:08,240 Speaker 1: Edge podcast with Kelly Henderson. 3 00:00:08,720 --> 00:00:11,680 Speaker 2: As a survivor of child sexual assault, of the nineteen 4 00:00:11,720 --> 00:00:15,960 Speaker 2: ninety nine child pornography case and Willow River, Jesselyn Beeterstadt 5 00:00:16,079 --> 00:00:19,000 Speaker 2: has shown immense strength in her healing journey. She spent 6 00:00:19,120 --> 00:00:21,400 Speaker 2: years working to overcome the trauma she faced, and one 7 00:00:21,440 --> 00:00:23,400 Speaker 2: thing that has helped her most on her journey to 8 00:00:23,480 --> 00:00:26,840 Speaker 2: building the extraordinary life she has today is speaking with 9 00:00:26,920 --> 00:00:30,760 Speaker 2: others to share stories of strength and resilience. Jesselyn aims 10 00:00:30,800 --> 00:00:34,240 Speaker 2: to bring the silence and stigma around surrounding trauma through 11 00:00:34,240 --> 00:00:37,800 Speaker 2: honest conversations on her podcast, Invisible Scars, and she's here 12 00:00:37,800 --> 00:00:40,879 Speaker 2: with us today to share her story. Jesselin, Hi, thank 13 00:00:40,880 --> 00:00:42,240 Speaker 2: you so much for being with us today. 14 00:00:42,640 --> 00:00:44,760 Speaker 3: Oh, Kelly, thank you so much for having me honestly 15 00:00:44,800 --> 00:00:46,520 Speaker 3: listening to you say that brought tears to my eyes 16 00:00:46,520 --> 00:00:49,840 Speaker 3: because it's just so validating. I appreciate that so much. 17 00:00:50,280 --> 00:00:52,000 Speaker 2: Well, we thought we were talking a little bit before 18 00:00:52,040 --> 00:00:54,040 Speaker 2: the podcast, and you said, so much of this story 19 00:00:54,080 --> 00:00:57,000 Speaker 2: has been silenced within you for your whole entire life, 20 00:00:57,040 --> 00:01:00,600 Speaker 2: and I want to get into why you you've decided 21 00:01:00,600 --> 00:01:02,440 Speaker 2: to speak out now and do the work that you're 22 00:01:02,440 --> 00:01:05,360 Speaker 2: doing later. But obviously we need to give listeners a 23 00:01:05,360 --> 00:01:07,280 Speaker 2: little bit of background. I told you I've been listening 24 00:01:07,319 --> 00:01:10,319 Speaker 2: to your podcast where you do such a great job 25 00:01:10,800 --> 00:01:13,039 Speaker 2: of telling the story with your best friend, which I 26 00:01:13,040 --> 00:01:14,880 Speaker 2: think is just such a beautiful way to do it. 27 00:01:16,360 --> 00:01:18,800 Speaker 2: But yeah, I'm still a little shaken, if I'm being honest, 28 00:01:18,800 --> 00:01:21,880 Speaker 2: from listening to the story. And so just to just 29 00:01:21,920 --> 00:01:24,759 Speaker 2: to kind of give you guys listening, just a warning, 30 00:01:25,040 --> 00:01:28,240 Speaker 2: this is a tough story and it does involve child 31 00:01:28,319 --> 00:01:32,279 Speaker 2: sexual assault, So take that into consideration where you're listening 32 00:01:32,319 --> 00:01:36,080 Speaker 2: and when you're listening. But if you would do us 33 00:01:36,560 --> 00:01:39,319 Speaker 2: just such an honor to listen to the story, and 34 00:01:39,360 --> 00:01:41,280 Speaker 2: I would hope that you can tell it in a 35 00:01:41,280 --> 00:01:44,480 Speaker 2: way that works for you. So how would you like 36 00:01:44,560 --> 00:01:44,959 Speaker 2: to start? 37 00:01:45,959 --> 00:01:47,920 Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, like you said, it is a really 38 00:01:48,360 --> 00:01:51,240 Speaker 3: it's hard for people to absorb. It's hard to hear. 39 00:01:51,400 --> 00:01:54,120 Speaker 3: But at the same time, I just think it's so 40 00:01:54,520 --> 00:01:57,360 Speaker 3: important for people to listen because these are things that 41 00:01:57,360 --> 00:01:59,240 Speaker 3: are not talked about, you know, these are things that 42 00:01:59,280 --> 00:02:02,520 Speaker 3: people are so I lanced on for so many years 43 00:02:02,560 --> 00:02:05,800 Speaker 3: and honestly, Kelly, like since launching this. I had severe, 44 00:02:06,040 --> 00:02:10,800 Speaker 3: like emotional hangover after recording my year stuff right, Like 45 00:02:10,880 --> 00:02:13,440 Speaker 3: I just the night before we launched, I was like, 46 00:02:13,480 --> 00:02:15,840 Speaker 3: what am I doing? What business do I have? People 47 00:02:15,880 --> 00:02:17,360 Speaker 3: are not going to want to hear this, But the 48 00:02:17,440 --> 00:02:21,560 Speaker 3: amount of feedback of other survivors coming forward and saying 49 00:02:21,600 --> 00:02:25,440 Speaker 3: thank you so much, Like I've never told anybody, I've 50 00:02:25,440 --> 00:02:27,480 Speaker 3: never said a word about this. I've been living with this. 51 00:02:27,639 --> 00:02:30,040 Speaker 3: It's killing me. Thank you. I feel seen like it 52 00:02:30,520 --> 00:02:35,520 Speaker 3: is important. So those tough conversations, just the shame around 53 00:02:35,560 --> 00:02:39,239 Speaker 3: sexual assault, the shame around trauma, the shame around abuse 54 00:02:39,360 --> 00:02:43,120 Speaker 3: as survivors, that only goes away when we start sharing 55 00:02:43,160 --> 00:02:46,919 Speaker 3: our stories, you know, And I just think this it's pivotal, 56 00:02:47,200 --> 00:02:49,160 Speaker 3: especially in the world that we're living in today. You know, 57 00:02:49,160 --> 00:02:52,359 Speaker 3: there's so much darkness, but I've come out the other 58 00:02:52,400 --> 00:02:54,880 Speaker 3: side of it, and I'm so proud of where I 59 00:02:54,919 --> 00:02:57,400 Speaker 3: am and I want to share with other people. You know, 60 00:02:57,480 --> 00:03:00,000 Speaker 3: how I got there. It wasn't bright and shiny and perfect. 61 00:03:00,320 --> 00:03:02,600 Speaker 3: It was frick and dark, and it was hard. But 62 00:03:02,680 --> 00:03:05,800 Speaker 3: the work is worth it and it's an important story 63 00:03:05,840 --> 00:03:06,200 Speaker 3: to tell. 64 00:03:06,919 --> 00:03:09,920 Speaker 2: I completely agree, and I always feel like, you know, 65 00:03:09,960 --> 00:03:12,240 Speaker 2: this is the reason that twelve step groups work, right, Like, 66 00:03:12,720 --> 00:03:15,160 Speaker 2: we heal with each other and we heal with connection 67 00:03:15,240 --> 00:03:17,560 Speaker 2: and knowing that we're not alone. I truly believe that, 68 00:03:18,840 --> 00:03:20,840 Speaker 2: And so when I was listening to your story, I 69 00:03:20,880 --> 00:03:24,799 Speaker 2: was thinking, for one, it's amazing to me and it's 70 00:03:24,960 --> 00:03:27,079 Speaker 2: very obvious how much work you've done on your own 71 00:03:27,120 --> 00:03:29,480 Speaker 2: to be able to even verbalize these things that happened 72 00:03:29,560 --> 00:03:32,520 Speaker 2: or that you went through. But also what a gift 73 00:03:32,560 --> 00:03:35,400 Speaker 2: you're giving to anyone else who's really struggling with actually 74 00:03:35,400 --> 00:03:37,720 Speaker 2: speaking up, Because I know that's one of the main 75 00:03:37,760 --> 00:03:40,440 Speaker 2: responses our body has to trauma, right We just immediately 76 00:03:40,440 --> 00:03:43,440 Speaker 2: want to stuff it and go silent, and a lot 77 00:03:43,440 --> 00:03:46,360 Speaker 2: of us go into freeze mode. So being able to 78 00:03:46,480 --> 00:03:49,480 Speaker 2: verbalize it in the way that you do it just 79 00:03:49,520 --> 00:03:52,520 Speaker 2: shows such a mint strength. Like we said in the intro, 80 00:03:53,360 --> 00:03:55,760 Speaker 2: so let's give listeners a little bit of the backstory. 81 00:03:55,880 --> 00:03:59,880 Speaker 2: Before this case came into play in your life, it 82 00:04:00,200 --> 00:04:03,360 Speaker 2: wasn't like your life was just all peachy and keen either. 83 00:04:03,880 --> 00:04:05,640 Speaker 2: There was a lot going on at home. So can 84 00:04:05,680 --> 00:04:06,800 Speaker 2: you tell us a little bit about that. 85 00:04:07,120 --> 00:04:09,000 Speaker 3: Yeah, I'll take you guys back to the beginning. You know, 86 00:04:09,160 --> 00:04:12,000 Speaker 3: I had a mom who had me really really young. 87 00:04:13,080 --> 00:04:17,080 Speaker 3: She had substance abuse problems. She was never connected to me, 88 00:04:17,200 --> 00:04:19,320 Speaker 3: So there was a lot of trouble in our home. 89 00:04:19,320 --> 00:04:22,960 Speaker 3: There was a ton of you know, domestic abuse, there 90 00:04:23,040 --> 00:04:26,080 Speaker 3: was a ton of drug use. I was physically abused, 91 00:04:26,160 --> 00:04:29,279 Speaker 3: mentally abused. I was always really afraid of my mom. 92 00:04:30,080 --> 00:04:31,960 Speaker 3: I lived in a ton of fear my whole life. 93 00:04:31,960 --> 00:04:33,840 Speaker 3: So from a very young age, I was in fight 94 00:04:33,920 --> 00:04:36,839 Speaker 3: or flight constantly, where you know, I would be hiding 95 00:04:36,880 --> 00:04:40,320 Speaker 3: in closets or walking myself in my room while she'd 96 00:04:40,320 --> 00:04:42,960 Speaker 3: have parties and there'd be drugs and bikers in my house, 97 00:04:43,000 --> 00:04:45,479 Speaker 3: you know, Like I would wake up in the mornings 98 00:04:45,560 --> 00:04:47,640 Speaker 3: and there would be like a mirror with drugs on 99 00:04:47,680 --> 00:04:50,159 Speaker 3: it in the morning. You know. I always knew what 100 00:04:50,240 --> 00:04:54,120 Speaker 3: that was from a very young age. So when this 101 00:04:54,200 --> 00:04:57,279 Speaker 3: all kind of came to be, I had already gone 102 00:04:57,320 --> 00:05:00,360 Speaker 3: through a lot of trauma. I had already learned how 103 00:05:00,400 --> 00:05:03,880 Speaker 3: to read a room. My instincts were, my survival instincts 104 00:05:03,880 --> 00:05:07,760 Speaker 3: were incredibly polished, right, So I had to learn if 105 00:05:08,279 --> 00:05:10,159 Speaker 3: I was in danger all the time, if I was 106 00:05:10,200 --> 00:05:12,039 Speaker 3: walking into the living room or if I was getting 107 00:05:12,080 --> 00:05:15,280 Speaker 3: up in the morning. I was always trying to decide 108 00:05:15,279 --> 00:05:16,680 Speaker 3: if it was a safe place for me to be. 109 00:05:16,920 --> 00:05:21,040 Speaker 3: So looking back now after I've met those people, you know, 110 00:05:21,040 --> 00:05:23,720 Speaker 3: my spidy senses were going off. And I talk a 111 00:05:23,760 --> 00:05:26,919 Speaker 3: little bit about that in my story, but yeah, I 112 00:05:26,960 --> 00:05:29,479 Speaker 3: was introduced to them by my mom and my grandfather. 113 00:05:30,160 --> 00:05:33,279 Speaker 3: Both my mom and my grandfather had drug abuse problems, 114 00:05:33,320 --> 00:05:35,640 Speaker 3: alcohol abuse problems and were going down like a really 115 00:05:36,040 --> 00:05:41,320 Speaker 3: a really bad path, and they introduced us to them, 116 00:05:41,320 --> 00:05:44,560 Speaker 3: and it kind of all started to unravel and the 117 00:05:44,600 --> 00:05:47,240 Speaker 3: story kept going even after that, which we can get into. 118 00:05:47,320 --> 00:05:51,200 Speaker 3: But you know, I say in the in my podcast 119 00:05:51,279 --> 00:05:55,560 Speaker 3: that talking about my instincts, there was one moment, so 120 00:05:55,600 --> 00:05:58,120 Speaker 3: those my abusers would get me to come babysit at 121 00:05:58,200 --> 00:06:00,360 Speaker 3: nine years old. They had this baby, and they would 122 00:06:00,360 --> 00:06:02,440 Speaker 3: get me at nine to come and babysit, and that's 123 00:06:02,480 --> 00:06:04,839 Speaker 3: kind of how they how they got me there. But 124 00:06:06,160 --> 00:06:08,440 Speaker 3: there was one moment where I really wanted a chocolate bar, 125 00:06:08,800 --> 00:06:11,359 Speaker 3: and I told them that I didn't like chocolate, so 126 00:06:11,400 --> 00:06:12,600 Speaker 3: I wasn't going to have one. I was trying to 127 00:06:12,640 --> 00:06:14,880 Speaker 3: be really appeasing, which is what I was trained to do. 128 00:06:15,040 --> 00:06:17,560 Speaker 3: I just was there to do what they needed me 129 00:06:17,600 --> 00:06:19,560 Speaker 3: to do and not be seen and not be a problem. 130 00:06:19,720 --> 00:06:23,360 Speaker 3: So later, I remember I really wanted that chocolate bar, 131 00:06:23,400 --> 00:06:25,240 Speaker 3: and I went to the cupboard to get it, and 132 00:06:25,520 --> 00:06:28,000 Speaker 3: I stopped, and I looked at the roof and thought 133 00:06:28,000 --> 00:06:30,160 Speaker 3: to myself, what if they have cameras in here and 134 00:06:30,200 --> 00:06:32,440 Speaker 3: they can tell that I lied and I put it back. 135 00:06:33,480 --> 00:06:34,680 Speaker 3: Isn't it crazy? 136 00:06:35,880 --> 00:06:38,279 Speaker 2: It's great, And we'll get into why that's so significant 137 00:06:38,320 --> 00:06:39,919 Speaker 2: in just a second. But when I was listening to 138 00:06:39,960 --> 00:06:42,720 Speaker 2: you tell your story, I thought to myself, at such 139 00:06:42,720 --> 00:06:46,640 Speaker 2: a young age, we as humans just know we have 140 00:06:46,920 --> 00:06:50,200 Speaker 2: just intuitions, and we're trained throughout our life to just 141 00:06:50,440 --> 00:06:52,920 Speaker 2: not pay attention to that, to not trust that, to 142 00:06:53,000 --> 00:06:55,560 Speaker 2: dismiss it for whatever reason. But I do feel like 143 00:06:55,640 --> 00:06:58,760 Speaker 2: our bodies, we can always trust our bodies, and if 144 00:06:58,800 --> 00:07:00,760 Speaker 2: we were taught to do that at such young age 145 00:07:00,800 --> 00:07:03,000 Speaker 2: or embrace that, God, what a gift that would be. Well, 146 00:07:03,000 --> 00:07:05,480 Speaker 2: we're taught the opposite. So it's crazy that you did. 147 00:07:05,480 --> 00:07:06,640 Speaker 2: You had those instincts. 148 00:07:07,080 --> 00:07:09,560 Speaker 3: I knew, you know, I knew, And I also, I mean, 149 00:07:09,640 --> 00:07:11,560 Speaker 3: I remember the night I met them, and I was 150 00:07:11,680 --> 00:07:14,120 Speaker 3: very very close with my grandfather, And this is actually 151 00:07:14,920 --> 00:07:17,600 Speaker 3: a piece of my story that has been the hardest 152 00:07:17,640 --> 00:07:24,840 Speaker 3: to recover from is that the knowing how he knew them. 153 00:07:25,040 --> 00:07:27,560 Speaker 3: And I will never forget the night I met them. 154 00:07:28,000 --> 00:07:30,600 Speaker 3: My grandfather was already there. It was very late at night. 155 00:07:30,680 --> 00:07:33,360 Speaker 3: My parents took us they'd left a party and said 156 00:07:33,360 --> 00:07:35,480 Speaker 3: we were going to see Papa. And we pulled up 157 00:07:35,520 --> 00:07:39,400 Speaker 3: to this trailer in this trailer park, and we walked 158 00:07:39,400 --> 00:07:42,920 Speaker 3: in and my grandfather was sitting at the table with 159 00:07:43,000 --> 00:07:45,040 Speaker 3: his arm on the table, looking straight ahead. And it 160 00:07:45,080 --> 00:07:47,440 Speaker 3: was very unusual for him to not fully embrace me 161 00:07:47,520 --> 00:07:49,960 Speaker 3: and be so happy to see me, and it was 162 00:07:50,160 --> 00:07:52,920 Speaker 3: very clear that it was a very serious situation, and 163 00:07:52,960 --> 00:07:54,760 Speaker 3: he would not look at me, and he would not 164 00:07:54,840 --> 00:07:57,920 Speaker 3: talk to me. And I knowing what I know now 165 00:07:58,000 --> 00:08:00,320 Speaker 3: and as time goes on, I do believe that there 166 00:08:00,400 --> 00:08:04,000 Speaker 3: was some sort of arrangement made that we were being 167 00:08:04,000 --> 00:08:06,600 Speaker 3: scoped out, that we were brought there to see if 168 00:08:06,600 --> 00:08:09,960 Speaker 3: we would be a good fit for these people. And 169 00:08:10,040 --> 00:08:13,160 Speaker 3: I do believe that he knew. 170 00:08:12,720 --> 00:08:15,760 Speaker 2: The betrayal in that In and of itself, I'm sure. 171 00:08:16,080 --> 00:08:17,679 Speaker 3: That was a tough one for me to get past. 172 00:08:17,880 --> 00:08:21,120 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, that makes total sense. So when you talk 173 00:08:21,160 --> 00:08:24,360 Speaker 2: about them, we're talking about the two abusers, and they 174 00:08:24,360 --> 00:08:27,160 Speaker 2: were in a couple from what I'm understanding, and she 175 00:08:27,320 --> 00:08:28,440 Speaker 2: was very young as well. 176 00:08:29,080 --> 00:08:33,199 Speaker 3: But yeah, they had seventeen when they got together. Wow, 177 00:08:33,320 --> 00:08:35,320 Speaker 3: and he was I think thirty six or thirty seven. 178 00:08:35,360 --> 00:08:38,440 Speaker 2: Okay, they ended up having a child, and as you said, 179 00:08:38,440 --> 00:08:41,600 Speaker 2: they would bring you in as the babysitter, which, by 180 00:08:41,640 --> 00:08:43,839 Speaker 2: the way, you were really young to be doing as well. 181 00:08:44,200 --> 00:08:46,080 Speaker 3: Yeah, I was nine, and you know that something I've 182 00:08:46,080 --> 00:08:48,480 Speaker 3: had to deal with as i'm older, like holding some 183 00:08:48,520 --> 00:08:50,640 Speaker 3: of the people accountable that were in my life at 184 00:08:50,640 --> 00:08:54,319 Speaker 3: that time, saying, you know, who let this happen? Who 185 00:08:54,520 --> 00:08:57,760 Speaker 3: thought that this was okay? Because I mean we all know, 186 00:08:57,960 --> 00:09:00,440 Speaker 3: as like responsible adults, that's not okay, right. 187 00:09:00,360 --> 00:09:07,360 Speaker 2: Like, yeah, so when you would go over what would happen, 188 00:09:07,520 --> 00:09:09,600 Speaker 2: it was like you were babysitting, so these people were 189 00:09:09,600 --> 00:09:11,520 Speaker 2: not there, Like, can you tell us a little bit 190 00:09:11,559 --> 00:09:13,160 Speaker 2: about what the arrangement looked like? 191 00:09:13,960 --> 00:09:17,360 Speaker 3: Yeah, So you know where they lived at the time 192 00:09:17,840 --> 00:09:20,040 Speaker 3: was a little community called Willow River, and it was 193 00:09:20,080 --> 00:09:23,199 Speaker 3: about forty minutes out of town, and they would even 194 00:09:23,240 --> 00:09:24,800 Speaker 3: get me to come on school nights and say they 195 00:09:24,800 --> 00:09:27,960 Speaker 3: would just drive me to school in the morning, so 196 00:09:28,480 --> 00:09:30,280 Speaker 3: she would come in and pick me up and on 197 00:09:30,400 --> 00:09:32,440 Speaker 3: the way back out to her house, she would say 198 00:09:32,440 --> 00:09:35,880 Speaker 3: things to me like are you are you a light sleeper? 199 00:09:36,040 --> 00:09:40,480 Speaker 3: And because I'm babysitting, my immediate response was, oh, yes, 200 00:09:40,600 --> 00:09:42,960 Speaker 3: like if the baby wakes up, I will absolutely hear 201 00:09:43,000 --> 00:09:45,559 Speaker 3: her trying to be responsible. So then she would say 202 00:09:45,600 --> 00:09:47,160 Speaker 3: to me, well, our house is still loud, so I'm 203 00:09:47,200 --> 00:09:48,559 Speaker 3: just going to give you this pill that will help 204 00:09:48,600 --> 00:09:51,520 Speaker 3: you sleep. And it was one common theme between all 205 00:09:51,520 --> 00:09:54,319 Speaker 3: the victim was victims sorry, It was that she would 206 00:09:54,320 --> 00:09:56,920 Speaker 3: give them these little blue pills, and so I would 207 00:09:56,960 --> 00:09:59,480 Speaker 3: take the pills and that would be the last thing 208 00:09:59,480 --> 00:10:03,120 Speaker 3: I would remin and I have memories of when they'd 209 00:10:03,120 --> 00:10:06,440 Speaker 3: wear off and I'd wake up and they would be 210 00:10:06,520 --> 00:10:11,320 Speaker 3: dressing me or helping me walk or do whatever, and 211 00:10:11,320 --> 00:10:13,640 Speaker 3: then I wouldn't remember anything. And then the next thing 212 00:10:13,640 --> 00:10:17,080 Speaker 3: I would remember, I was in the lineup for school 213 00:10:17,760 --> 00:10:18,760 Speaker 3: at elementary school. 214 00:10:19,400 --> 00:10:21,360 Speaker 2: So you just were completely blacked out. Did you ever 215 00:10:21,400 --> 00:10:23,400 Speaker 2: find out what that was that they were giving them? 216 00:10:24,000 --> 00:10:26,719 Speaker 3: Yeah, if you google it, it's in the it's in 217 00:10:26,760 --> 00:10:29,840 Speaker 3: the news articles, but I can't remember offhand what it's called. 218 00:10:29,840 --> 00:10:33,400 Speaker 3: But every victim had the same story. They all, Yeah, 219 00:10:33,440 --> 00:10:35,920 Speaker 3: they all had the same pill that they were given. 220 00:10:36,400 --> 00:10:39,240 Speaker 2: So then you would just wake up completely without memory 221 00:10:39,280 --> 00:10:41,040 Speaker 2: of anything that had happened. And then they would just 222 00:10:41,120 --> 00:10:42,000 Speaker 2: drop you off at school. 223 00:10:42,720 --> 00:10:44,160 Speaker 3: Yeah, they would just drop me off at school, and 224 00:10:44,160 --> 00:10:45,640 Speaker 3: that's the next thing I'd remember, like how did I 225 00:10:45,679 --> 00:10:48,160 Speaker 3: get here? What happened? And you know, it started to 226 00:10:48,240 --> 00:10:50,960 Speaker 3: be really I'd question it. I was a little bit confused, 227 00:10:51,000 --> 00:10:53,080 Speaker 3: and I had a trusted adult in my life who 228 00:10:53,080 --> 00:10:55,800 Speaker 3: I was really close with, who I would go to 229 00:10:55,840 --> 00:10:58,920 Speaker 3: their place on the weekends because my mom's was really unsafe, 230 00:10:59,080 --> 00:11:01,720 Speaker 3: and I I had said to her, you know, they're 231 00:11:01,720 --> 00:11:04,040 Speaker 3: giving me these pills to help me sleep, but I 232 00:11:04,040 --> 00:11:07,480 Speaker 3: don't kind of remember anything. And I remember her saying 233 00:11:07,520 --> 00:11:10,280 Speaker 3: to me, like, oh my god, what like next time, 234 00:11:10,360 --> 00:11:14,280 Speaker 3: don't take them. So as an adult now, I'm like 235 00:11:14,320 --> 00:11:17,560 Speaker 3: that was a terrible response, but you know, at the time, 236 00:11:17,640 --> 00:11:21,600 Speaker 3: I trusted them, and I was so unhappy and scared 237 00:11:21,640 --> 00:11:23,880 Speaker 3: at home, and that's part of how they groomed me, right, 238 00:11:23,920 --> 00:11:27,280 Speaker 3: It was like, that's important to note too, is how 239 00:11:27,280 --> 00:11:31,040 Speaker 3: these people groom children and families. They don't just groom 240 00:11:31,720 --> 00:11:34,200 Speaker 3: the children, they're essentially grooming the parents as well. If 241 00:11:34,240 --> 00:11:36,200 Speaker 3: they're unaware of the situation. 242 00:11:36,440 --> 00:11:38,000 Speaker 2: You know what do you mean by that? Can you 243 00:11:38,040 --> 00:11:38,520 Speaker 2: say more? 244 00:11:39,320 --> 00:11:41,920 Speaker 3: Yeah, So the way that they would groom me was 245 00:11:41,960 --> 00:11:44,240 Speaker 3: that they would really play on my relationship with my mom. 246 00:11:44,559 --> 00:11:49,440 Speaker 3: And because Crystal the girl was so young, she would 247 00:11:49,480 --> 00:11:51,800 Speaker 3: say things like, my mom was awful too. I know 248 00:11:51,840 --> 00:11:54,120 Speaker 3: you have a hard time at home. I'm going to 249 00:11:54,160 --> 00:11:55,360 Speaker 3: try and get you out of the house and take 250 00:11:55,400 --> 00:11:57,680 Speaker 3: you shopping and you can come here anytime if you 251 00:11:57,720 --> 00:12:00,200 Speaker 3: need a break. Like for the first time, I felt 252 00:12:00,280 --> 00:12:03,679 Speaker 3: so safe and loved and seen and heard. Right, So 253 00:12:03,720 --> 00:12:06,560 Speaker 3: she really really played on that. And you know, talking 254 00:12:06,559 --> 00:12:09,439 Speaker 3: to some of the other victims of this, I mean 255 00:12:09,520 --> 00:12:11,480 Speaker 3: I have a belief my mom knew what was going on, 256 00:12:12,240 --> 00:12:15,240 Speaker 3: but other people when you talk about how they've groomed 257 00:12:15,240 --> 00:12:18,960 Speaker 3: their parents, you know, just telling them that they like 258 00:12:19,000 --> 00:12:22,280 Speaker 3: taking them on vacations or you know, offering help with 259 00:12:22,360 --> 00:12:24,920 Speaker 3: food and dropping off groceries and just like really making 260 00:12:24,960 --> 00:12:27,079 Speaker 3: them feel like they're trusted people in your life that 261 00:12:27,160 --> 00:12:29,400 Speaker 3: want to be there to help you. Okay, And they're 262 00:12:29,480 --> 00:12:32,160 Speaker 3: very good at it, right, Like that's their worse. Yeah, 263 00:12:32,240 --> 00:12:33,840 Speaker 3: they're very very good at it. 264 00:12:34,120 --> 00:12:38,000 Speaker 2: Very convincing. Yeah, And I'm assuming it's like if you 265 00:12:38,040 --> 00:12:40,120 Speaker 2: don't have a good home life too. I mean you've 266 00:12:40,160 --> 00:12:43,720 Speaker 2: also talked about this, like you feeling this responsibility. Oh 267 00:12:43,720 --> 00:12:46,760 Speaker 2: I'm a light sleeper. You were already in that place 268 00:12:46,800 --> 00:12:49,600 Speaker 2: of trying to do adult things as a child like 269 00:12:49,920 --> 00:12:53,160 Speaker 2: that over responsibility and wanting to show up. So I'd 270 00:12:53,200 --> 00:12:55,560 Speaker 2: imagine one you weren't asking for a lot of help, 271 00:12:55,880 --> 00:12:58,200 Speaker 2: but two, really, where would you ask for help from? 272 00:12:58,320 --> 00:13:00,240 Speaker 2: You didn't have that as a resource. It was like 273 00:13:00,280 --> 00:13:01,800 Speaker 2: you could call home and be like, what do I 274 00:13:01,880 --> 00:13:04,960 Speaker 2: do here? Anything like that. There was no safe space. 275 00:13:05,640 --> 00:13:08,720 Speaker 3: There was no safe space. And you know, after I 276 00:13:08,760 --> 00:13:11,160 Speaker 3: had spoken to my trusted adult and she told me 277 00:13:11,200 --> 00:13:13,680 Speaker 3: never to take it again, that really rang true to me. 278 00:13:13,920 --> 00:13:16,920 Speaker 3: And the last time that you know, this had gone 279 00:13:16,920 --> 00:13:18,960 Speaker 3: on for quite a while, probably a year or more 280 00:13:19,800 --> 00:13:24,120 Speaker 3: of me going there and not remembering anything, and you know, 281 00:13:24,400 --> 00:13:27,320 Speaker 3: the last time it ever happened, that voice was in 282 00:13:27,400 --> 00:13:32,440 Speaker 3: my head. And they picked me up and told my 283 00:13:32,440 --> 00:13:34,760 Speaker 3: parents that they wanted to meet a babysit and offered 284 00:13:34,920 --> 00:13:36,680 Speaker 3: my three year old brother to come as well, which 285 00:13:36,679 --> 00:13:41,920 Speaker 3: he did often, And when we got back out to 286 00:13:42,000 --> 00:13:44,480 Speaker 3: their trailer, they said, we know you've been having a 287 00:13:44,520 --> 00:13:47,320 Speaker 3: hard time at home, so we're actually not going out. 288 00:13:47,440 --> 00:13:49,760 Speaker 3: We just wanted to get you guys away from your 289 00:13:49,760 --> 00:13:52,360 Speaker 3: house so we could have some time together. And you know, 290 00:13:52,480 --> 00:13:54,760 Speaker 3: it was Kelly like they did a good fricking job. 291 00:13:54,840 --> 00:13:57,600 Speaker 3: Like they took us through their neighborhood and they introduced 292 00:13:57,679 --> 00:14:00,280 Speaker 3: us to their neighbors, and they ordered pizza and we 293 00:14:00,320 --> 00:14:03,680 Speaker 3: played outside as a family and played board games and 294 00:14:03,720 --> 00:14:05,920 Speaker 3: watched a movie like those were things we didn't have 295 00:14:06,040 --> 00:14:09,280 Speaker 3: at home. So it felt so like I remember thinking, 296 00:14:09,840 --> 00:14:12,560 Speaker 3: I wish I lived here. Yeah, I wish these were 297 00:14:12,640 --> 00:14:14,920 Speaker 3: my parents, right, So that just goes to show how 298 00:14:14,920 --> 00:14:16,120 Speaker 3: well they did groom me. 299 00:14:16,720 --> 00:14:19,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, And of course it would like lower your defenses 300 00:14:19,200 --> 00:14:22,320 Speaker 2: in general, because you're having so much fun. You're getting 301 00:14:22,320 --> 00:14:24,320 Speaker 2: to do things you didn't ever get to do. That's 302 00:14:24,360 --> 00:14:26,680 Speaker 2: so exciting as a kid. Yeah, I thought they were 303 00:14:26,720 --> 00:14:27,240 Speaker 2: so cool. 304 00:14:27,280 --> 00:14:29,960 Speaker 3: And because she was so young too, right, Like, yeah, 305 00:14:30,000 --> 00:14:32,560 Speaker 3: she was only nineteen at that time, so I felt 306 00:14:32,720 --> 00:14:35,720 Speaker 3: just like she was so cool. And there were odd 307 00:14:35,800 --> 00:14:39,320 Speaker 3: rules in their house, but I kind of looked past it. Right. 308 00:14:39,480 --> 00:14:41,000 Speaker 3: So there was a room we weren't a let to 309 00:14:41,040 --> 00:14:43,960 Speaker 3: go in, and that was his office, and I was 310 00:14:43,960 --> 00:14:45,880 Speaker 3: always really curious of what was in there, but it 311 00:14:45,920 --> 00:14:49,240 Speaker 3: was very clear that you know, you don't go in there, 312 00:14:49,960 --> 00:14:52,160 Speaker 3: which turned out to be that's world like the closed 313 00:14:52,160 --> 00:14:56,560 Speaker 3: circuit TVs and recording devices were because that entire trailer 314 00:14:56,720 --> 00:14:59,920 Speaker 3: was outfitted in video. 315 00:15:00,920 --> 00:15:04,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, so talk us through that last night because I 316 00:15:04,720 --> 00:15:07,080 Speaker 2: know that that was I believe in your story that 317 00:15:07,120 --> 00:15:08,880 Speaker 2: I heard it was the last night that you were there. 318 00:15:09,320 --> 00:15:11,640 Speaker 2: But so they take you on this trip that are 319 00:15:11,800 --> 00:15:14,960 Speaker 2: you know they're there this time. They're making you guys 320 00:15:15,000 --> 00:15:16,720 Speaker 2: do all these things or having you guys do all 321 00:15:16,760 --> 00:15:19,240 Speaker 2: these things that you love, that you drop your defenses, 322 00:15:19,280 --> 00:15:21,680 Speaker 2: you're having fun, your younger brother is with you. Than 323 00:15:21,720 --> 00:15:22,360 Speaker 2: what happened. 324 00:15:23,400 --> 00:15:27,040 Speaker 3: So the night goes on and her husband, Jim, is 325 00:15:27,080 --> 00:15:29,560 Speaker 3: going to go to bed, so he leaves and it's 326 00:15:29,600 --> 00:15:31,320 Speaker 3: just the three of us and we're on the couch 327 00:15:31,400 --> 00:15:34,160 Speaker 3: in the living room watching Ace Venture a Pet Detective, 328 00:15:35,320 --> 00:15:37,680 Speaker 3: and she kind of pulls me aside to the table 329 00:15:37,720 --> 00:15:41,040 Speaker 3: and wants to have conversations like my mom would never 330 00:15:41,120 --> 00:15:44,320 Speaker 3: have with me, like about boys or getting your period 331 00:15:44,400 --> 00:15:46,800 Speaker 3: or whatever, like just trying to really make me feel 332 00:15:46,880 --> 00:15:51,840 Speaker 3: like she she hears me. And so finally she's like, 333 00:15:51,880 --> 00:15:53,600 Speaker 3: you know, I'm going to give you that pill again. 334 00:15:53,640 --> 00:15:56,000 Speaker 3: Tonight because it's there's things going on with a washer 335 00:15:56,120 --> 00:15:59,400 Speaker 3: or something. And so she gave me two this time 336 00:15:59,440 --> 00:16:02,440 Speaker 3: instead of one, and I put them in my napkin 337 00:16:02,480 --> 00:16:06,840 Speaker 3: from my pizza and I didn't take them, and I 338 00:16:06,920 --> 00:16:10,280 Speaker 3: knew I had that voice in my head from my 339 00:16:10,280 --> 00:16:12,400 Speaker 3: trusted adult, you know, telling me like, don't take them 340 00:16:12,440 --> 00:16:13,960 Speaker 3: next time. So I was like, okay, I'm not going 341 00:16:14,000 --> 00:16:17,320 Speaker 3: to take them. So I put them in. I put 342 00:16:17,360 --> 00:16:19,400 Speaker 3: them in my napkin and threw my napkin out in 343 00:16:19,440 --> 00:16:22,720 Speaker 3: the garbage in the bathroom, and I told her, you know, 344 00:16:22,760 --> 00:16:24,520 Speaker 3: I'm tired and I'm going to lay down on the 345 00:16:24,520 --> 00:16:27,400 Speaker 3: couch is where we normally slept. And she said to me, 346 00:16:28,160 --> 00:16:29,720 Speaker 3: I'm going to let your brother keep watching this, so 347 00:16:29,720 --> 00:16:31,920 Speaker 3: I'm going to put you in bed with Jim. And 348 00:16:32,040 --> 00:16:35,200 Speaker 3: I said no, and she said, oh, don't worry. He 349 00:16:35,240 --> 00:16:38,880 Speaker 3: sleeps naked, but he he's a heavy sleeper. He won't 350 00:16:38,920 --> 00:16:42,120 Speaker 3: even know you're there. And I remember being so scared, 351 00:16:42,280 --> 00:16:45,160 Speaker 3: like I couldn't feel my legs. She walked me down 352 00:16:45,160 --> 00:16:48,440 Speaker 3: the hallway and put me in bed with him, and 353 00:16:48,480 --> 00:16:49,480 Speaker 3: I remember everything. 354 00:16:50,080 --> 00:16:51,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, you were nine. 355 00:16:52,040 --> 00:16:55,600 Speaker 3: I was nine, Yeah, yeah. And it didn't take him 356 00:16:55,640 --> 00:16:59,680 Speaker 3: long to start trying to touch me, and I'd roll away, 357 00:17:00,160 --> 00:17:02,400 Speaker 3: pretend I was sleeping. And this went on for a while, 358 00:17:03,920 --> 00:17:06,639 Speaker 3: and he tried very aggressively, and then he kind of 359 00:17:06,720 --> 00:17:09,479 Speaker 3: started to figure out that I wasn't complying, like I 360 00:17:09,560 --> 00:17:12,560 Speaker 3: was a little bit fighting too hard. And I remember 361 00:17:12,600 --> 00:17:14,720 Speaker 3: him getting up and walking away, and he had no 362 00:17:14,800 --> 00:17:18,359 Speaker 3: clothes on, and I was so scared. I just laid 363 00:17:18,359 --> 00:17:21,440 Speaker 3: there and I could hear them talking, and she came 364 00:17:21,480 --> 00:17:23,760 Speaker 3: into the bedroom and sat on the end of the bed, 365 00:17:24,359 --> 00:17:28,000 Speaker 3: and she was mad. She was very angry with me 366 00:17:28,760 --> 00:17:31,440 Speaker 3: and asked me why didn't take the pills. She got 367 00:17:31,520 --> 00:17:34,640 Speaker 3: very angry and a defensive and said that he only 368 00:17:34,680 --> 00:17:37,920 Speaker 3: did that to me to make sure I would never 369 00:17:38,000 --> 00:17:52,600 Speaker 3: touch his daughter inappropriately. That I passed the test. 370 00:17:49,000 --> 00:17:53,960 Speaker 2: So just complete gas lighting completely. And your response. I 371 00:17:53,960 --> 00:17:56,320 Speaker 2: thought this was so fascinating too, because it goes back 372 00:17:56,320 --> 00:18:00,719 Speaker 2: to that overresponsibility, because you were so responsible as a child, 373 00:18:00,840 --> 00:18:03,080 Speaker 2: and then you thought, okay, well, good at past the test. 374 00:18:03,400 --> 00:18:06,359 Speaker 3: Yeah. I literally thought, okay, thank goodness, I did it. Okay, 375 00:18:06,560 --> 00:18:10,880 Speaker 3: I'm responsible, you know. Yeah. So she was mad, and 376 00:18:10,920 --> 00:18:13,080 Speaker 3: it's a very small trailer, so she said to me, 377 00:18:13,119 --> 00:18:14,480 Speaker 3: you know, I'm going to put you back in bed 378 00:18:14,480 --> 00:18:17,480 Speaker 3: on the couch, like this is enough. She's mad, and 379 00:18:17,520 --> 00:18:20,440 Speaker 3: I remember thinking I'm gonna have to walk past him, 380 00:18:20,480 --> 00:18:22,680 Speaker 3: like I am terrified. I'm going to have to walk 381 00:18:22,720 --> 00:18:26,080 Speaker 3: past him. And he was nowhere to be found. And 382 00:18:26,760 --> 00:18:29,000 Speaker 3: so she put me on the couch and I laid 383 00:18:29,000 --> 00:18:31,040 Speaker 3: there and I couldn't go to sleep, and I could 384 00:18:31,040 --> 00:18:33,600 Speaker 3: hear him coming back down the hallway after a while, 385 00:18:34,119 --> 00:18:36,439 Speaker 3: and my brother was on the couch across from me, 386 00:18:37,760 --> 00:18:42,240 Speaker 3: and I knew that I had to pretend I was sleeping, 387 00:18:42,720 --> 00:18:45,560 Speaker 3: and I completely froze, and he came up beside me 388 00:18:46,040 --> 00:18:48,960 Speaker 3: and put his hands on my shoulders and like left 389 00:18:49,000 --> 00:18:51,119 Speaker 3: them there. It felt like forever. It was probably like 390 00:18:51,160 --> 00:18:53,920 Speaker 3: ten or fifteen seconds, but just to see if i'd move. 391 00:18:53,960 --> 00:18:56,159 Speaker 3: It was like this game of chicken, right, And I 392 00:18:56,200 --> 00:18:59,119 Speaker 3: held my breath and I did not move, And then 393 00:18:59,160 --> 00:19:01,199 Speaker 3: he walked away and I watched him pick up my 394 00:19:01,240 --> 00:19:04,439 Speaker 3: brother and take him down the hallway. And that was 395 00:19:04,480 --> 00:19:08,440 Speaker 3: the hardest moment of my life. It was awful. It's 396 00:19:08,480 --> 00:19:11,320 Speaker 3: something I've had to work on for like twenty seven 397 00:19:11,400 --> 00:19:16,240 Speaker 3: years and therapy. So I got up and I was panicked, 398 00:19:16,520 --> 00:19:20,360 Speaker 3: and I thought I need help, and I almost ran 399 00:19:20,440 --> 00:19:22,919 Speaker 3: outside of the trailer, and I remembered I had just 400 00:19:23,000 --> 00:19:25,840 Speaker 3: met the neighbors and I went to go. I was like, 401 00:19:25,880 --> 00:19:27,320 Speaker 3: I don't even have time to put my shoes on, 402 00:19:27,400 --> 00:19:29,560 Speaker 3: Like I just have to go, and something stopped me. 403 00:19:30,480 --> 00:19:31,880 Speaker 3: And I was like, what if they're in on it 404 00:19:32,160 --> 00:19:35,840 Speaker 3: and they kill me? And so I didn't go, and 405 00:19:35,840 --> 00:19:38,080 Speaker 3: then I kept looking around, looking around. There's no phone. 406 00:19:38,119 --> 00:19:41,040 Speaker 3: And it was the first time that I realized there 407 00:19:41,080 --> 00:19:43,760 Speaker 3: was no phone out there. And all those times I 408 00:19:43,760 --> 00:19:45,919 Speaker 3: had Babi said I didn't know because I was drugged, 409 00:19:45,960 --> 00:19:47,639 Speaker 3: I was asleep, and it was the first time I 410 00:19:47,680 --> 00:19:51,840 Speaker 3: realized I had no phone and no options and there 411 00:19:51,880 --> 00:19:53,879 Speaker 3: was nothing I could do besides go get back on 412 00:19:53,920 --> 00:19:55,879 Speaker 3: the couch and try and go to sleep. 413 00:19:57,119 --> 00:20:02,560 Speaker 2: And so you did. Yeah, it was the. 414 00:20:02,480 --> 00:20:07,840 Speaker 3: Hardest thing to overcome was knowing that I couldn't protect 415 00:20:07,840 --> 00:20:10,080 Speaker 3: my brother because I always did right like I from 416 00:20:10,080 --> 00:20:14,680 Speaker 3: my mom and everything at home. I always protected him. 417 00:20:14,680 --> 00:20:16,200 Speaker 3: So that was a really hard one for me to 418 00:20:17,480 --> 00:20:19,199 Speaker 3: let go. But you know, it's important to know that 419 00:20:19,320 --> 00:20:22,199 Speaker 3: like these horrible things that you think that are going 420 00:20:22,240 --> 00:20:25,399 Speaker 3: to eat you alive. What I've learned through therapy is 421 00:20:25,440 --> 00:20:30,200 Speaker 3: that I actually saved our lives that night, because if 422 00:20:30,200 --> 00:20:32,800 Speaker 3: I had done anything other than what I did, they 423 00:20:32,840 --> 00:20:35,159 Speaker 3: would have killed us. They were very dangerous people, and 424 00:20:35,760 --> 00:20:38,480 Speaker 3: we've learned through trial and what they wrote in their journals, 425 00:20:38,520 --> 00:20:41,000 Speaker 3: you know how dangerous it really was that we were there, 426 00:20:41,040 --> 00:20:44,159 Speaker 3: And I've learned that to reframe it as I couldn't 427 00:20:44,200 --> 00:20:46,880 Speaker 3: stalk what happened to him, But I did save our lives. 428 00:20:47,080 --> 00:20:51,760 Speaker 2: Right, which ultimately was a better gift obviously. But I 429 00:20:51,800 --> 00:20:54,800 Speaker 2: obviously understand too. I'm an older sister as well, so 430 00:20:54,840 --> 00:20:58,040 Speaker 2: I understand that, like the big protective sister, yeah, and 431 00:20:58,280 --> 00:21:01,160 Speaker 2: how that would torture you. But again also not your 432 00:21:01,280 --> 00:21:04,240 Speaker 2: job as a child as well. You know, I just 433 00:21:04,280 --> 00:21:06,280 Speaker 2: because even when I was listening and I'm just listening 434 00:21:06,320 --> 00:21:09,720 Speaker 2: to it again, it's like I hear the things that 435 00:21:09,760 --> 00:21:12,520 Speaker 2: you were even asking of yourself as a child, like 436 00:21:12,600 --> 00:21:15,159 Speaker 2: thinking that was your job, you know, like that just 437 00:21:15,200 --> 00:21:17,760 Speaker 2: breaks my heart in general, hearing that because none of 438 00:21:17,800 --> 00:21:22,920 Speaker 2: that was your job. Well, so then after that happens, 439 00:21:23,640 --> 00:21:25,400 Speaker 2: how did it? And I think that was the last 440 00:21:25,400 --> 00:21:27,720 Speaker 2: time you guys were over there, thankfully, right, And so 441 00:21:28,480 --> 00:21:30,920 Speaker 2: what ended up happening to get these people caught? 442 00:21:32,600 --> 00:21:35,760 Speaker 3: You know, I actually don't know. From what I've read, 443 00:21:36,640 --> 00:21:38,160 Speaker 3: the police have been been trying to build a case 444 00:21:38,200 --> 00:21:40,920 Speaker 3: on them for a long time. From what I've read 445 00:21:41,080 --> 00:21:46,199 Speaker 3: in the media, he had a very long record, I 446 00:21:46,240 --> 00:21:49,800 Speaker 3: mean very violent. There was other suspicions of sexual abuse 447 00:21:49,840 --> 00:21:53,679 Speaker 3: on children before in a different province in Canada, and 448 00:21:53,720 --> 00:21:55,359 Speaker 3: I think that they had been building a case for 449 00:21:55,440 --> 00:21:58,160 Speaker 3: a long time. So I never had to go back there. 450 00:21:58,320 --> 00:22:00,680 Speaker 3: I did have to see them a couple times after 451 00:22:00,720 --> 00:22:04,560 Speaker 3: that through my grandfather, unfortunately, but we were never alone again. 452 00:22:05,840 --> 00:22:08,600 Speaker 3: And then the next time it came to be it 453 00:22:08,680 --> 00:22:11,640 Speaker 3: was my birthday and I was picked up from school, 454 00:22:12,000 --> 00:22:14,880 Speaker 3: which was very odd, and my mom said, we're going 455 00:22:14,920 --> 00:22:16,600 Speaker 3: to the police station. They want to ask you some 456 00:22:16,720 --> 00:22:20,280 Speaker 3: questions about him and Crystal. And I've never been so 457 00:22:20,320 --> 00:22:20,880 Speaker 3: scared in my. 458 00:22:20,840 --> 00:22:24,280 Speaker 2: Life, really, because you immediately knew why. 459 00:22:24,800 --> 00:22:28,000 Speaker 3: I knew why, And then I like, as a child too, 460 00:22:28,040 --> 00:22:30,359 Speaker 3: it's hard to understand if you were in trouble or 461 00:22:30,400 --> 00:22:33,320 Speaker 3: if they're in trouble, and it's embarrassing to talk about 462 00:22:33,359 --> 00:22:35,680 Speaker 3: those things, right like, especially if you don't have parents 463 00:22:35,680 --> 00:22:39,000 Speaker 3: that have made you comfortable talking about your body or 464 00:22:39,080 --> 00:22:42,439 Speaker 3: things that are safe and unsafe. We never had those conversations, 465 00:22:42,480 --> 00:22:46,320 Speaker 3: so it felt it felt like I was in trouble. 466 00:22:47,119 --> 00:22:50,520 Speaker 2: Right, Isn't that The thing that most I believe that 467 00:22:50,600 --> 00:22:53,600 Speaker 2: most sexual assault survivors say is like, you don't know 468 00:22:53,640 --> 00:22:56,240 Speaker 2: what part of it was you or I know a 469 00:22:56,240 --> 00:22:58,880 Speaker 2: lot of people have struggled with like your body's reaction 470 00:22:59,040 --> 00:23:01,240 Speaker 2: and all of these just takeing on the guilt feelings 471 00:23:01,240 --> 00:23:04,160 Speaker 2: of something that's completely not your fault, but not knowing 472 00:23:04,200 --> 00:23:06,200 Speaker 2: how to navigate that part of it. 473 00:23:06,440 --> 00:23:09,600 Speaker 3: So true, And you know, like talking to other survivors 474 00:23:09,600 --> 00:23:13,040 Speaker 3: who have come on my podcast, you know, the key 475 00:23:13,240 --> 00:23:18,679 Speaker 3: and other experts on this, the key to trauma survivors 476 00:23:18,720 --> 00:23:23,200 Speaker 3: having a successful life later is early intervention with connection 477 00:23:23,440 --> 00:23:26,800 Speaker 3: and therapy and validation. And I had none of those 478 00:23:26,840 --> 00:23:31,000 Speaker 3: things right, So, and I didn't have any support system. 479 00:23:31,160 --> 00:23:35,280 Speaker 3: So the terror inside of me, it was so elevated 480 00:23:35,320 --> 00:23:36,879 Speaker 3: because I thought my mom would be mad at me. 481 00:23:36,960 --> 00:23:38,560 Speaker 3: I thought the police were going to be mad at me. 482 00:23:38,600 --> 00:23:39,880 Speaker 3: I didn't know if I was going to be put 483 00:23:39,920 --> 00:23:43,119 Speaker 3: in jail. Like those irrational thoughts just spiral. 484 00:23:43,720 --> 00:23:46,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, well, and the hard thing about your story, and 485 00:23:46,840 --> 00:23:49,000 Speaker 2: I mean we've kind of already touched on this, but again, 486 00:23:49,080 --> 00:23:51,919 Speaker 2: not having that safe space. So even once they're arrested, 487 00:23:52,400 --> 00:23:54,680 Speaker 2: and I believe you tell the story to the police, 488 00:23:54,880 --> 00:23:57,760 Speaker 2: I'm assuming they get put in jail. All of that, 489 00:23:57,800 --> 00:23:59,679 Speaker 2: I'm sure was a longer process than we're making it 490 00:23:59,680 --> 00:24:03,600 Speaker 2: sound like. But but then it's like you go back 491 00:24:03,600 --> 00:24:06,480 Speaker 2: home and you still have a pretty broken relationship with 492 00:24:06,520 --> 00:24:10,560 Speaker 2: your mom, right she was an addict? And did you 493 00:24:10,600 --> 00:24:13,320 Speaker 2: guys get taken away? Is that what happened next? 494 00:24:13,640 --> 00:24:16,119 Speaker 3: We did? You know? Before we even went to trial, 495 00:24:16,320 --> 00:24:19,360 Speaker 3: I had been taken away from my mom and went 496 00:24:19,400 --> 00:24:21,560 Speaker 3: to go live with my aunt, is where I always 497 00:24:21,560 --> 00:24:25,280 Speaker 3: wanted to be, and you know, my mom didn't like that, 498 00:24:25,640 --> 00:24:28,040 Speaker 3: so we ended up in foster care. So I came 499 00:24:28,080 --> 00:24:31,800 Speaker 3: home from school one day, happy, finally feeling really at peace, 500 00:24:31,920 --> 00:24:35,080 Speaker 3: and there was a strange car in my driveway at 501 00:24:35,119 --> 00:24:37,639 Speaker 3: my aunt's house. And so I walked up and it 502 00:24:37,680 --> 00:24:42,439 Speaker 3: was Social Services and everything I owned was in a 503 00:24:42,480 --> 00:24:46,280 Speaker 3: black garbage bag and there was nothing I could do, 504 00:24:46,400 --> 00:24:48,240 Speaker 3: and my uncle was standing there and he was like, 505 00:24:48,280 --> 00:24:50,360 Speaker 3: I'm so sorry, Jess, like there's nothing I can do. 506 00:24:50,520 --> 00:24:52,280 Speaker 3: And I was put in a car and dropped off 507 00:24:52,400 --> 00:24:56,600 Speaker 3: at a stranger's house. So we were going through all 508 00:24:56,640 --> 00:24:59,119 Speaker 3: of that and you know, before that even happened, I 509 00:24:59,160 --> 00:25:01,280 Speaker 3: actually made the choice to leave my mom's house. That 510 00:25:01,480 --> 00:25:06,800 Speaker 3: was my choice. I finally had enough. And now I 511 00:25:06,800 --> 00:25:09,400 Speaker 3: can look back and say, holy frick, how brave I 512 00:25:09,440 --> 00:25:12,000 Speaker 3: was to stand up to her, because I was really scared. Right, 513 00:25:12,119 --> 00:25:14,639 Speaker 3: So one night I just said, I'm not coming home. 514 00:25:14,720 --> 00:25:16,560 Speaker 3: And you know, the last thing my mom ever said 515 00:25:16,600 --> 00:25:18,560 Speaker 3: to me was if you ever stepped foot on my 516 00:25:18,560 --> 00:25:21,640 Speaker 3: doorstep again, I'll fucking kill you. And I was eleven, 517 00:25:21,920 --> 00:25:24,440 Speaker 3: and I was just like, I'm done. So I left 518 00:25:24,440 --> 00:25:27,119 Speaker 3: my mom's house with nothing. She wouldn't let me have 519 00:25:27,160 --> 00:25:29,400 Speaker 3: any of my stuff. And then that day when social 520 00:25:29,480 --> 00:25:32,520 Speaker 3: Services showed up, the few things I did have were 521 00:25:32,560 --> 00:25:34,679 Speaker 3: in a black garbage bag and I was dropped off 522 00:25:34,680 --> 00:25:39,159 Speaker 3: somewhere really strange. So it was just constant. You know, 523 00:25:39,240 --> 00:25:43,400 Speaker 3: I had no safe space, I had no peace. I'd 524 00:25:43,440 --> 00:25:47,920 Speaker 3: never experienced peace, you know, so it was really difficult. 525 00:25:48,560 --> 00:25:50,560 Speaker 2: Well, I hope that when you're telling the story, you 526 00:25:50,600 --> 00:25:53,320 Speaker 2: can look at yourself the way that I look at 527 00:25:53,400 --> 00:25:56,119 Speaker 2: you hearing this story, and just the immense amount of 528 00:25:56,160 --> 00:25:59,560 Speaker 2: survival skills and strength that that takes. I mean as 529 00:25:59,560 --> 00:26:03,960 Speaker 2: a child specifically, and to me, the biggest part of 530 00:26:04,000 --> 00:26:06,719 Speaker 2: that is the people who were supposed to protect you 531 00:26:06,760 --> 00:26:10,520 Speaker 2: and love you the most betrayed you and just kind 532 00:26:10,560 --> 00:26:13,400 Speaker 2: of grappling with that. And so I love that you're 533 00:26:13,400 --> 00:26:15,360 Speaker 2: telling your story now and I want to shift into 534 00:26:15,359 --> 00:26:19,240 Speaker 2: the positive parts of that. Also, if you guys want 535 00:26:19,280 --> 00:26:21,200 Speaker 2: to hear more about Jesslyn's story, I'll put a link 536 00:26:21,240 --> 00:26:23,480 Speaker 2: to her podcast in the description of this podcast. But 537 00:26:24,520 --> 00:26:27,119 Speaker 2: with that said, I know you get through these huge, 538 00:26:27,240 --> 00:26:30,240 Speaker 2: huge traumas and like I said, what I mean, immense 539 00:26:30,280 --> 00:26:32,639 Speaker 2: strength you showed and the survival and all of that, 540 00:26:33,280 --> 00:26:35,840 Speaker 2: But I know the journey doesn't stop there. And I 541 00:26:35,920 --> 00:26:38,879 Speaker 2: know that in listening to even just the betrayal that 542 00:26:38,920 --> 00:26:43,199 Speaker 2: we've discussed here, I would imagine relationships in general and 543 00:26:43,320 --> 00:26:47,600 Speaker 2: just trusting people and navigating that as an adult would 544 00:26:47,600 --> 00:26:50,440 Speaker 2: be very, very difficult. So can you talk a little 545 00:26:50,520 --> 00:26:52,760 Speaker 2: bit about what that journey has been like for you, 546 00:26:52,800 --> 00:26:56,680 Speaker 2: because I don't want to, you know, dismiss the fact 547 00:26:56,720 --> 00:26:59,000 Speaker 2: that this is a lifelong journey, and I know anyone 548 00:26:59,080 --> 00:27:01,879 Speaker 2: listening like there should be no shame in the fact 549 00:27:02,040 --> 00:27:04,840 Speaker 2: that it's not like the trauma ends and then you're 550 00:27:04,880 --> 00:27:07,600 Speaker 2: just fine. So can you tell the listeners a little 551 00:27:07,640 --> 00:27:11,439 Speaker 2: bit about just what it's like to navigate. You know, 552 00:27:11,480 --> 00:27:13,480 Speaker 2: I know you're married, now you have kids of your own, 553 00:27:13,560 --> 00:27:18,000 Speaker 2: like family dynamics, relationships, love, friendships, what does that look 554 00:27:18,080 --> 00:27:19,680 Speaker 2: like for you? 555 00:27:18,400 --> 00:27:23,080 Speaker 3: You know, for many years it was hard. You would 556 00:27:23,080 --> 00:27:27,320 Speaker 3: think I would be very untrusting, but I found myself 557 00:27:27,359 --> 00:27:29,919 Speaker 3: to be the complete opposite because I was creating that 558 00:27:30,000 --> 00:27:32,399 Speaker 3: loving connection that I never had as a child. So 559 00:27:32,640 --> 00:27:36,440 Speaker 3: I trusted everybody too quickly because I just really needed love. 560 00:27:36,600 --> 00:27:40,920 Speaker 3: I really needed that affection and which got me into 561 00:27:41,440 --> 00:27:44,480 Speaker 3: you know, bad situations with people which I ended up 562 00:27:44,480 --> 00:27:47,919 Speaker 3: putting myself in harmful situations. I made a ton of 563 00:27:47,960 --> 00:27:52,040 Speaker 3: mistakes as an unhealed person, I hurt people, and you know, 564 00:27:52,240 --> 00:27:57,080 Speaker 3: it's it's been such a journey and today Jesselyn is 565 00:27:57,119 --> 00:28:00,679 Speaker 3: so different and I think that looking back, what has 566 00:28:00,760 --> 00:28:03,639 Speaker 3: changed me number one the most is sharing my story. 567 00:28:03,720 --> 00:28:05,520 Speaker 3: So when you say to me, I hope that you 568 00:28:05,560 --> 00:28:07,719 Speaker 3: see yourself the way I do as such a strong person. 569 00:28:08,160 --> 00:28:10,199 Speaker 3: You know, a few years ago, I would have been 570 00:28:10,200 --> 00:28:12,359 Speaker 3: so uncomfortable and been like Kelly, shut up like that. 571 00:28:12,400 --> 00:28:14,320 Speaker 3: I don't relate to that, like no thank you, no 572 00:28:14,480 --> 00:28:17,680 Speaker 3: thank you. Like it would have been very very rejected 573 00:28:17,720 --> 00:28:21,320 Speaker 3: by me, and through me actually saying it out loud 574 00:28:21,520 --> 00:28:24,200 Speaker 3: and actually talking about it, I do feel that way 575 00:28:24,240 --> 00:28:28,080 Speaker 3: about myself. And it's taken a while because that also 576 00:28:28,160 --> 00:28:31,399 Speaker 3: felt incredibly conceited and narcissistic to me, like it just 577 00:28:31,480 --> 00:28:34,639 Speaker 3: didn't come naturally for me to give myself praise for 578 00:28:34,680 --> 00:28:39,320 Speaker 3: those things, right. So that's been a journey. Only in 579 00:28:39,360 --> 00:28:42,040 Speaker 3: the last like year and a half, through me really 580 00:28:42,080 --> 00:28:44,640 Speaker 3: trying to heal from these things, have I been able 581 00:28:44,720 --> 00:28:49,080 Speaker 3: to set healthy boundaries with people in my life. I 582 00:28:49,200 --> 00:28:53,440 Speaker 3: was very much allowing people to treat me any way 583 00:28:53,520 --> 00:28:57,360 Speaker 3: they wanted, and I would just be quiet about it 584 00:28:57,360 --> 00:29:00,920 Speaker 3: because I didn't want to cause problems, right. And it's interesting, 585 00:29:00,960 --> 00:29:03,760 Speaker 3: like you hear all the time that when you start healing, 586 00:29:04,800 --> 00:29:07,400 Speaker 3: you go through this great season of loss, and I 587 00:29:07,440 --> 00:29:11,320 Speaker 3: don't think it's talked about enough. And you know, there's 588 00:29:11,400 --> 00:29:14,360 Speaker 3: certain people in your life who are only going to 589 00:29:14,800 --> 00:29:18,160 Speaker 3: love and appreciate that broken version of you because that 590 00:29:18,240 --> 00:29:22,200 Speaker 3: fits for them, right, right, And you know, I've had 591 00:29:22,240 --> 00:29:24,680 Speaker 3: a lot of loss in the last year through all 592 00:29:24,680 --> 00:29:29,360 Speaker 3: of this, and I am okay with that. I am 593 00:29:29,400 --> 00:29:33,000 Speaker 3: okay with where I am now, and just appreciating that 594 00:29:33,040 --> 00:29:35,080 Speaker 3: people were in my life for the reasons they were 595 00:29:35,120 --> 00:29:37,760 Speaker 3: in it, and also knowing that the people that didn't 596 00:29:37,800 --> 00:29:40,240 Speaker 3: protect me, they did the best they could with what 597 00:29:40,680 --> 00:29:43,840 Speaker 3: they had, right with what they could have, what they 598 00:29:44,360 --> 00:29:47,000 Speaker 3: had for themselves, the resources, the self respect they had 599 00:29:47,040 --> 00:29:49,719 Speaker 3: for whatever trauma they had that they weren't healed from. 600 00:29:50,040 --> 00:29:52,400 Speaker 3: And I think like getting to a point of being 601 00:29:52,440 --> 00:29:56,040 Speaker 3: able to accept that is so so important. That's where 602 00:29:56,080 --> 00:29:58,400 Speaker 3: the healing comes in, right, Like, it's that's where the 603 00:29:58,440 --> 00:30:00,560 Speaker 3: healing from these things is important. And I am not 604 00:30:00,680 --> 00:30:03,560 Speaker 3: responsible for what happened to me, but I am responsible 605 00:30:04,080 --> 00:30:07,080 Speaker 3: for my own life now and how I treat people 606 00:30:07,080 --> 00:30:09,240 Speaker 3: and how I show up for my family and myself. 607 00:30:10,160 --> 00:30:12,800 Speaker 2: Was there a part of you that wanted to I 608 00:30:12,840 --> 00:30:15,640 Speaker 2: know you mentioned in your podcast you had these amazing 609 00:30:15,680 --> 00:30:18,320 Speaker 2: foster parents for a minute, and it's a really difficult 610 00:30:18,640 --> 00:30:20,640 Speaker 2: thing for you now to have a relationship with them 611 00:30:20,720 --> 00:30:22,680 Speaker 2: just because it brings you back to that time, which 612 00:30:22,720 --> 00:30:25,240 Speaker 2: makes total sense to me. So is there anyone from 613 00:30:25,280 --> 00:30:27,440 Speaker 2: that time that you do have relationships with? And what 614 00:30:27,600 --> 00:30:30,400 Speaker 2: is what are your family relationships like? Are you still 615 00:30:30,400 --> 00:30:33,960 Speaker 2: in touch with your brother or your mom or anyone? 616 00:30:35,280 --> 00:30:38,600 Speaker 3: I'm not you know, my brother and I got separated 617 00:30:38,920 --> 00:30:42,920 Speaker 3: in foster care and we have not seen each other since. 618 00:30:43,160 --> 00:30:45,239 Speaker 3: It's really painful. You know, I had a lot of 619 00:30:45,280 --> 00:30:49,120 Speaker 3: family members who would say you abandoned him, and he 620 00:30:49,120 --> 00:30:52,480 Speaker 3: doesn't understand. But what they're not understanding was I was ten, 621 00:30:52,840 --> 00:30:57,240 Speaker 3: and you know it wasn't my responsibility and the guilt 622 00:30:57,320 --> 00:31:01,360 Speaker 3: I carried for what happened to him, I couldn't face 623 00:31:01,440 --> 00:31:04,440 Speaker 3: him for so many years. And Mom is just a 624 00:31:04,480 --> 00:31:07,080 Speaker 3: really you know, she has her own demons and I 625 00:31:07,120 --> 00:31:11,480 Speaker 3: no longer hate her, but we will never have a relationship. 626 00:31:11,520 --> 00:31:14,560 Speaker 3: She is just a really dangerous person. And I never 627 00:31:14,640 --> 00:31:19,320 Speaker 3: knew my real dad, my grandfather, who I was very 628 00:31:19,320 --> 00:31:21,880 Speaker 3: close with prior to this. He passed away about five 629 00:31:21,960 --> 00:31:25,080 Speaker 3: or six years ago, but we didn't have a relationship either. 630 00:31:25,200 --> 00:31:27,400 Speaker 3: He's just not a good person. And you know, my 631 00:31:27,440 --> 00:31:30,400 Speaker 3: aunt who I lived with her, her children became my 632 00:31:30,480 --> 00:31:33,840 Speaker 3: brothers and they are my brothers to this day and 633 00:31:33,880 --> 00:31:36,440 Speaker 3: I love them so much and we are very very close. 634 00:31:37,240 --> 00:31:38,720 Speaker 3: But really that's it. 635 00:31:39,480 --> 00:31:42,680 Speaker 2: Yeah, just too traumatic, too. 636 00:31:42,480 --> 00:31:46,840 Speaker 3: Traumatic, and a long line of really toxic behaviors and 637 00:31:46,920 --> 00:31:50,480 Speaker 3: trauma that's not healed, and they have to figure out 638 00:31:50,480 --> 00:31:52,800 Speaker 3: their own stuff, Like when you break those cycles. You 639 00:31:52,920 --> 00:31:56,360 Speaker 3: have to break those cycles, you know, And no one 640 00:31:56,440 --> 00:32:00,000 Speaker 3: actually talks about the humility it takes and the strength 641 00:32:00,160 --> 00:32:02,680 Speaker 3: that takes to be able to be the cycle breaker 642 00:32:02,960 --> 00:32:05,480 Speaker 3: and figure out how to deal with your emotions and 643 00:32:05,600 --> 00:32:07,840 Speaker 3: you know, heal your inner child, and it takes a 644 00:32:07,880 --> 00:32:09,960 Speaker 3: lot of work. And when you come out the other side, 645 00:32:10,520 --> 00:32:13,800 Speaker 3: you're not the same person and they may not like 646 00:32:13,840 --> 00:32:15,080 Speaker 3: who you are. Right. 647 00:32:15,880 --> 00:32:19,080 Speaker 2: Well, we mentioned you're married as well, so what is 648 00:32:19,240 --> 00:32:23,240 Speaker 2: that like? And you know, and I guess I have 649 00:32:23,280 --> 00:32:25,560 Speaker 2: a couple questions with that. I think that a lot 650 00:32:25,560 --> 00:32:28,400 Speaker 2: of times when we come from toxic family dynamics, we 651 00:32:28,480 --> 00:32:31,280 Speaker 2: end up repeating those patterns as adults. You know, Like, 652 00:32:31,280 --> 00:32:34,640 Speaker 2: like you mentioned, maybe you had some relationships that you 653 00:32:34,680 --> 00:32:38,000 Speaker 2: couldn't you weren't available to set boundaries in because that's 654 00:32:38,040 --> 00:32:39,680 Speaker 2: never what you were taught as a kid, So you 655 00:32:39,720 --> 00:32:42,440 Speaker 2: just repeat that cycle. You have toxic people in your life. 656 00:32:42,600 --> 00:32:44,600 Speaker 2: Did you feel like that was something you brought into 657 00:32:44,600 --> 00:32:47,680 Speaker 2: your romantic relationships for a long time? How did that 658 00:32:47,720 --> 00:32:50,360 Speaker 2: go meeting your husband? And does that still come up 659 00:32:50,400 --> 00:32:52,160 Speaker 2: within y'all's relationship at this point? 660 00:32:52,800 --> 00:32:57,080 Speaker 3: Oh God, yes to all of the above. Honestly, I was. 661 00:32:57,200 --> 00:33:00,360 Speaker 3: I had pushed it aside so much when I had 662 00:33:00,360 --> 00:33:04,600 Speaker 3: met my husband that he didn't even know. Like when 663 00:33:04,600 --> 00:33:07,840 Speaker 3: we finally talked about it, he was completely shocked because 664 00:33:07,880 --> 00:33:10,239 Speaker 3: I had hit it so well, and he was you know, 665 00:33:10,400 --> 00:33:13,040 Speaker 3: over the course of our fifteen years together, he would 666 00:33:13,080 --> 00:33:15,000 Speaker 3: we would get in these major fights because I would 667 00:33:15,000 --> 00:33:16,880 Speaker 3: be like, how do you not know what happened to me? 668 00:33:17,000 --> 00:33:19,000 Speaker 3: Like you're triggering me right now and you're getting mad 669 00:33:19,040 --> 00:33:21,560 Speaker 3: at me, and he'd be like, but jessln you hide 670 00:33:21,600 --> 00:33:24,440 Speaker 3: it so well, like I forget, Like I will be 671 00:33:24,480 --> 00:33:27,640 Speaker 3: completely fine living my life and then something will trigger 672 00:33:27,720 --> 00:33:31,040 Speaker 3: me and that's it. I'm a completely unhinged person, right, 673 00:33:31,160 --> 00:33:33,960 Speaker 3: So that was really really difficult, and we would have 674 00:33:34,000 --> 00:33:36,240 Speaker 3: these explosive fights. I mean, no one, neither one of 675 00:33:36,280 --> 00:33:39,719 Speaker 3: us would know how to communicate properly, especially when I 676 00:33:39,760 --> 00:33:42,680 Speaker 3: have all this unhealed trauma. And you know, it's interesting, 677 00:33:42,760 --> 00:33:47,360 Speaker 3: like thinking about intimate relationships and what that's like for 678 00:33:47,520 --> 00:33:50,840 Speaker 3: a sexual assault, a sexual abuse survivor. You know, there 679 00:33:50,960 --> 00:33:54,040 Speaker 3: is things that people don't understand that you know, you 680 00:33:54,080 --> 00:33:58,600 Speaker 3: can have physical pain that just happens immediately and you 681 00:33:58,800 --> 00:34:01,200 Speaker 3: even him kissing me, I would have physical pain through 682 00:34:01,200 --> 00:34:03,600 Speaker 3: my body, and it's something I would have to really 683 00:34:04,040 --> 00:34:06,760 Speaker 3: work through, and it's something that we had to work 684 00:34:06,800 --> 00:34:09,880 Speaker 3: through together, and it shows up in our relationship today 685 00:34:10,040 --> 00:34:13,839 Speaker 3: in different ways, definitely not the same. You know, when 686 00:34:13,840 --> 00:34:16,960 Speaker 3: I started to really when I said to him, I'm 687 00:34:17,080 --> 00:34:19,719 Speaker 3: you're in or you're out. I have to deal with this, 688 00:34:20,200 --> 00:34:22,719 Speaker 3: and I think it's important for people to hear too. 689 00:34:22,760 --> 00:34:27,040 Speaker 3: You know a lot of couples who have one partner 690 00:34:27,080 --> 00:34:31,160 Speaker 3: who has been through something like this, the other partner 691 00:34:31,320 --> 00:34:34,960 Speaker 3: is usually very afraid for them to start healing. And 692 00:34:35,440 --> 00:34:38,640 Speaker 3: his fear was he would lose me, I wouldn't be 693 00:34:38,760 --> 00:34:41,600 Speaker 3: the same person, or I wouldn't like him anymore, or 694 00:34:41,680 --> 00:34:44,560 Speaker 3: I would leave him behind, or it wasn't a good time, 695 00:34:44,680 --> 00:34:46,319 Speaker 3: Like everyone always thinks that there has to be a 696 00:34:46,360 --> 00:34:49,120 Speaker 3: good time to do this, But the time to do 697 00:34:49,200 --> 00:34:51,040 Speaker 3: it is when you feel ready, because no one can 698 00:34:51,080 --> 00:34:53,640 Speaker 3: tell you when you're ready. But you know, that was 699 00:34:53,680 --> 00:34:56,279 Speaker 3: a pivotal moment in our relationship was I sat him 700 00:34:56,280 --> 00:34:57,759 Speaker 3: down in the kitchen and I was like, I know 701 00:34:57,800 --> 00:34:59,839 Speaker 3: you're afraid for me to do this, but you have 702 00:34:59,840 --> 00:35:02,080 Speaker 3: no choice, like you're in or you're out, but I'm 703 00:35:02,120 --> 00:35:06,480 Speaker 3: doing it. And he was fantastic, Like, yeah, so he 704 00:35:06,560 --> 00:35:09,200 Speaker 3: had started therapy as well to try and help navigate 705 00:35:09,520 --> 00:35:12,760 Speaker 3: his emotions through it, because you know what also people 706 00:35:12,760 --> 00:35:15,200 Speaker 3: don't talk about in this is when you're going through it, 707 00:35:15,239 --> 00:35:18,360 Speaker 3: your partner's needs are really pushed aside, and he needed 708 00:35:18,360 --> 00:35:21,880 Speaker 3: help with that as well. And I really really believe 709 00:35:22,000 --> 00:35:24,840 Speaker 3: that when you're in a relationship and you're trying to 710 00:35:24,880 --> 00:35:28,000 Speaker 3: process something so traumatic, it's a two person job. It 711 00:35:28,120 --> 00:35:30,680 Speaker 3: is both of you because you need each other and 712 00:35:31,080 --> 00:35:32,839 Speaker 3: you can't do it on your own. 713 00:35:35,920 --> 00:35:40,000 Speaker 2: If you had to give anyone in a relationship advice 714 00:35:40,080 --> 00:35:42,279 Speaker 2: that's going through this, like, how would you tell us, 715 00:35:42,400 --> 00:35:46,080 Speaker 2: as friends or loved ones of someone trying to heal 716 00:35:46,120 --> 00:35:48,880 Speaker 2: from trauma? What's the best way to support someone through that? 717 00:35:49,680 --> 00:35:52,960 Speaker 3: Oh gosh, honestly, don't try and fix it, don't try 718 00:35:53,000 --> 00:35:57,920 Speaker 3: to give advice because we've probably thought of everything, and 719 00:35:58,080 --> 00:36:01,400 Speaker 3: just let them go through their emotions. I think the 720 00:36:01,440 --> 00:36:04,960 Speaker 3: biggest thing is to not take any offense to the 721 00:36:05,000 --> 00:36:08,239 Speaker 3: things that they do or say, like what comes out 722 00:36:08,280 --> 00:36:11,040 Speaker 3: of their mouth when they're really in those low moments. 723 00:36:11,080 --> 00:36:13,600 Speaker 3: You know, Like Kelly, there were moments when I was 724 00:36:13,600 --> 00:36:15,879 Speaker 3: in the thick of this where I could not get 725 00:36:15,920 --> 00:36:20,239 Speaker 3: out of bed. I was launching my brand new store online. 726 00:36:20,680 --> 00:36:23,799 Speaker 3: It was supposed to be the happiest time of my life. 727 00:36:23,800 --> 00:36:26,480 Speaker 3: And I would literally like get up, turn a lamp on, 728 00:36:26,680 --> 00:36:29,319 Speaker 3: make some posts, and then lay back down like I 729 00:36:29,360 --> 00:36:32,279 Speaker 3: had nothing to give. And he would come in and 730 00:36:32,320 --> 00:36:34,759 Speaker 3: he would hold me, and I would cry, and then 731 00:36:34,800 --> 00:36:38,320 Speaker 3: there be moments where the anger would just freaking spew 732 00:36:38,360 --> 00:36:40,280 Speaker 3: out of me and he's in my line of fire, 733 00:36:40,640 --> 00:36:42,680 Speaker 3: and I would say things I didn't mean and he 734 00:36:42,719 --> 00:36:45,120 Speaker 3: would just hug me and hold me and say, I 735 00:36:45,160 --> 00:36:47,200 Speaker 3: know you don't mean that. I'm here, say whatever you 736 00:36:47,280 --> 00:36:49,520 Speaker 3: need to say. And I think that that was like 737 00:36:50,080 --> 00:36:53,760 Speaker 3: the key for me, was allowing me to say whatever 738 00:36:53,800 --> 00:36:55,719 Speaker 3: I needed to say in those moments and just be 739 00:36:55,800 --> 00:36:58,880 Speaker 3: there and not try and fix it, because when he 740 00:36:58,920 --> 00:37:00,799 Speaker 3: would come at me and say, well, maybe try this, 741 00:37:00,960 --> 00:37:03,040 Speaker 3: or maybe have you thought of this, like, yes, I've 742 00:37:03,040 --> 00:37:04,239 Speaker 3: thought of it, thank you. 743 00:37:04,200 --> 00:37:06,360 Speaker 2: Like I've been thinking of it since I'm not I know, 744 00:37:06,520 --> 00:37:09,080 Speaker 2: like I'm hyper vigilant, I know all the things. 745 00:37:09,200 --> 00:37:11,120 Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, it's just the patience. 746 00:37:11,480 --> 00:37:13,719 Speaker 2: Yeah, and I hear everything you just said. I'm like, okay, 747 00:37:13,719 --> 00:37:15,880 Speaker 2: well you were in freeze response, you were in fight response, 748 00:37:15,960 --> 00:37:19,560 Speaker 2: Like maybe educating yourself on traumatic responses in general would 749 00:37:19,600 --> 00:37:22,160 Speaker 2: be helpful because all of those things that you just 750 00:37:22,200 --> 00:37:25,160 Speaker 2: said are just your body's reaction to like letting go 751 00:37:25,320 --> 00:37:25,680 Speaker 2: of that. 752 00:37:26,440 --> 00:37:29,160 Speaker 3: Ooh, I love that you said that, because that is key. 753 00:37:29,400 --> 00:37:34,000 Speaker 3: Like I really took the time to educate myself on 754 00:37:34,600 --> 00:37:37,279 Speaker 3: and I found it fascinating because then it was also like, 755 00:37:37,560 --> 00:37:39,520 Speaker 3: oh my god, this is why I'm doing this, Like 756 00:37:39,560 --> 00:37:42,200 Speaker 3: I don't feel it's such a crazy person, Like I 757 00:37:42,200 --> 00:37:44,560 Speaker 3: don't feel like such a leper anymore. Like this is amazing, 758 00:37:44,600 --> 00:37:47,640 Speaker 3: and you know, as trauma survivors too, it's really hard 759 00:37:48,040 --> 00:37:50,040 Speaker 3: for me. Anyways, it was very hard for me to 760 00:37:50,160 --> 00:37:52,480 Speaker 3: focus on school, to read a book, to remember what 761 00:37:52,560 --> 00:37:55,640 Speaker 3: I read. And I found that once I was reading 762 00:37:55,680 --> 00:38:00,120 Speaker 3: about myself and learning about myself, that's when it became 763 00:38:00,160 --> 00:38:03,120 Speaker 3: I was able to absorb it. And it's been pivotal. 764 00:38:03,160 --> 00:38:05,880 Speaker 3: I think as a trauma survivor, that would be my advice. 765 00:38:06,560 --> 00:38:09,359 Speaker 3: Educate yourself on your body's response is what you're going through, 766 00:38:09,360 --> 00:38:11,400 Speaker 3: because it's going to make you feel so normal, so 767 00:38:11,600 --> 00:38:12,920 Speaker 3: seen and ready. 768 00:38:13,280 --> 00:38:15,920 Speaker 2: Right, because if you don't know, it does feel crazy, 769 00:38:16,200 --> 00:38:20,479 Speaker 2: like especially as it's releasing, I can relate so much. 770 00:38:20,760 --> 00:38:23,880 Speaker 2: My experiences were obviously different, but as trauma has been 771 00:38:23,920 --> 00:38:26,759 Speaker 2: releasing from my body throughout the years, it's like you 772 00:38:26,840 --> 00:38:31,000 Speaker 2: literally feel insane or you're like, why am I so lazy? Like, 773 00:38:31,080 --> 00:38:34,320 Speaker 2: all of a sudden, I cannot function. I have no drive. 774 00:38:34,880 --> 00:38:37,040 Speaker 2: And if you're anything like me, which I assume you 775 00:38:37,239 --> 00:38:38,920 Speaker 2: are based off of the way you were brought up, 776 00:38:38,960 --> 00:38:42,279 Speaker 2: but like you're an overachiever and all of the you're 777 00:38:42,440 --> 00:38:45,120 Speaker 2: very driven, you know, and so to not be able 778 00:38:45,200 --> 00:38:47,840 Speaker 2: to function is like, what is wrong with me? 779 00:38:48,320 --> 00:38:51,680 Speaker 3: Oh? The lazy word? Like that is imprinted in my head, 780 00:38:51,719 --> 00:38:54,160 Speaker 3: Like I would constantly be like, why am I so lazy? 781 00:38:54,200 --> 00:38:57,080 Speaker 3: And I think that is just the key to educate yourself. 782 00:38:57,080 --> 00:38:58,560 Speaker 3: And you know what else I did for me too, 783 00:38:58,680 --> 00:39:01,719 Speaker 3: was as someone who's and through something. You know, in 784 00:39:01,800 --> 00:39:05,360 Speaker 3: those unhealed years, I was not the best version of myself. 785 00:39:05,800 --> 00:39:08,640 Speaker 3: I was not a great person. I was hurting people 786 00:39:08,680 --> 00:39:11,160 Speaker 3: I loved, I was saying things I didn't mean. I 787 00:39:11,239 --> 00:39:14,719 Speaker 3: was making huge mistakes. And now that I've learned a 788 00:39:14,719 --> 00:39:17,920 Speaker 3: little bit about it, I've been able to forgive myself. 789 00:39:17,960 --> 00:39:20,040 Speaker 3: And I think that that is a really big piece 790 00:39:20,040 --> 00:39:22,759 Speaker 3: as well, is just giving yourself grace. You can still 791 00:39:22,800 --> 00:39:25,840 Speaker 3: hold yourself accountable for those things, but also just forgive 792 00:39:25,840 --> 00:39:28,360 Speaker 3: yourself because it's really really vital. 793 00:39:28,880 --> 00:39:32,799 Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, our word this month on the podcast is cobwebs, 794 00:39:32,920 --> 00:39:35,640 Speaker 2: which your story in so many ways hits that it's 795 00:39:35,680 --> 00:39:39,279 Speaker 2: just like what's lurking behind the cobwebs in the shadows. 796 00:39:39,800 --> 00:39:41,640 Speaker 2: And there was a moment in the podcast that I 797 00:39:41,680 --> 00:39:43,399 Speaker 2: listened to where you said you spent most of your 798 00:39:43,400 --> 00:39:45,800 Speaker 2: life hiding from this story and just pretending like everything 799 00:39:45,840 --> 00:39:48,719 Speaker 2: was okay. So what was the moment that she's decided 800 00:39:48,840 --> 00:39:51,240 Speaker 2: okay and no more hiding and now I'm ready to talk. 801 00:39:54,280 --> 00:39:56,239 Speaker 3: You know, I had a really bad experience with a 802 00:39:56,239 --> 00:40:01,719 Speaker 3: friend and it really triggered me in a way that 803 00:40:01,840 --> 00:40:04,440 Speaker 3: I was not fully understanding in the moment. You know, 804 00:40:04,600 --> 00:40:09,000 Speaker 3: I felt so hurt and so betrayed and it threw 805 00:40:09,080 --> 00:40:11,760 Speaker 3: me over the edge and I ended up in therapy 806 00:40:11,800 --> 00:40:16,440 Speaker 3: because of that, and through therapy I learned why it 807 00:40:16,480 --> 00:40:19,120 Speaker 3: triggered me. So, first of all, someone had done something 808 00:40:19,160 --> 00:40:21,760 Speaker 3: to me and then asked me to keep it a secret. 809 00:40:22,120 --> 00:40:25,200 Speaker 3: So there's trigger number one where it takes me back 810 00:40:25,239 --> 00:40:27,040 Speaker 3: to when I was a kid and when they were 811 00:40:27,080 --> 00:40:29,399 Speaker 3: doing these horrible things to me and said, you can 812 00:40:29,440 --> 00:40:31,879 Speaker 3: never tell anyone. We'll kill your family, we'll kill you, 813 00:40:31,920 --> 00:40:34,239 Speaker 3: we'll kill your brother. You know, it was me being 814 00:40:34,280 --> 00:40:37,840 Speaker 3: silenced again, so that threw me over the edge, so 815 00:40:39,200 --> 00:40:43,280 Speaker 3: that through therapy it was like I hit emotional rock bottom. 816 00:40:43,640 --> 00:40:47,400 Speaker 3: I didn't know what I knew I couldn't take anymore. 817 00:40:47,400 --> 00:40:49,520 Speaker 3: I knew I couldn't live that way anymore. I was 818 00:40:49,520 --> 00:40:51,600 Speaker 3: not showing up as a mom the way I wanted to. 819 00:40:52,040 --> 00:40:55,040 Speaker 3: I was people pleasing. I was allowing shitty things to 820 00:40:55,080 --> 00:40:58,200 Speaker 3: happen to me. And it also helped me realize my 821 00:40:58,400 --> 00:41:00,759 Speaker 3: role in what had happened with a friend. How you know, 822 00:41:01,080 --> 00:41:03,800 Speaker 3: my mistake of saying okay, I won't tell anyone, okay 823 00:41:03,800 --> 00:41:06,520 Speaker 3: and allowing her to do these things and not holding 824 00:41:06,520 --> 00:41:09,880 Speaker 3: her accountable. That was on me, so taking ownership for 825 00:41:09,920 --> 00:41:13,440 Speaker 3: those things. And then it led into oh, this is 826 00:41:13,480 --> 00:41:16,120 Speaker 3: why I'm feeling this way, and I've been hiding from 827 00:41:16,160 --> 00:41:19,640 Speaker 3: this my entire life, and none of my family had 828 00:41:19,680 --> 00:41:21,680 Speaker 3: ever spoke to me about this, you know, Kelly, I 829 00:41:21,719 --> 00:41:24,760 Speaker 3: spent most of my life wondering if it actually happened. Yeah, 830 00:41:24,760 --> 00:41:27,680 Speaker 3: because I didn't, No one ever spoke to me about it. 831 00:41:28,120 --> 00:41:30,160 Speaker 3: There was a point where I was like, Okay, is 832 00:41:30,200 --> 00:41:32,000 Speaker 3: this something I made up in my head? And then 833 00:41:32,280 --> 00:41:33,960 Speaker 3: if I would drink, it would come out and I'd 834 00:41:34,000 --> 00:41:36,840 Speaker 3: be the girl crying because finally it's pouring out, and 835 00:41:36,840 --> 00:41:39,560 Speaker 3: then I'm embarrassed and I feel silly and stupid again. 836 00:41:39,719 --> 00:41:42,839 Speaker 3: So it was those all those things combined where I 837 00:41:42,880 --> 00:41:46,160 Speaker 3: was like no, and I knew drinking was giving me 838 00:41:46,160 --> 00:41:49,040 Speaker 3: alcohol anxiety. So I completely quit drinking for a year 839 00:41:49,239 --> 00:41:53,880 Speaker 3: when I, you know, really committed to this and I 840 00:41:53,960 --> 00:41:55,839 Speaker 3: decided that I had to do it. It was now 841 00:41:55,960 --> 00:41:58,360 Speaker 3: or never because I truly felt like there was more 842 00:41:58,800 --> 00:42:00,640 Speaker 3: meant for me. I was not meant to be living 843 00:42:00,680 --> 00:42:01,600 Speaker 3: the life I was living. 844 00:42:02,200 --> 00:42:05,480 Speaker 2: Right, So now you have the Invisible Scars podcast. I 845 00:42:05,520 --> 00:42:08,160 Speaker 2: want to tell the listeners a little bit about that podcast, 846 00:42:08,200 --> 00:42:09,640 Speaker 2: and like I said, if you guys want to feel 847 00:42:09,719 --> 00:42:12,279 Speaker 2: hear the full story, which I think you did such 848 00:42:12,320 --> 00:42:15,040 Speaker 2: a great job of telling, I highly recommend going to 849 00:42:15,040 --> 00:42:17,319 Speaker 2: listen to that. It's the first two episodes. But what 850 00:42:17,400 --> 00:42:19,120 Speaker 2: else can we find on your podcast? What kind of 851 00:42:19,120 --> 00:42:20,040 Speaker 2: guests are you talking to? 852 00:42:20,560 --> 00:42:23,680 Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm talking to experts in trauma. I'm talking to 853 00:42:24,640 --> 00:42:27,879 Speaker 3: you know, other trauma survivors. I am talking to other 854 00:42:27,880 --> 00:42:30,640 Speaker 3: people in mental health. I mean, it doesn't just revolve 855 00:42:30,840 --> 00:42:34,080 Speaker 3: around sexual abuse. There are people that have come on 856 00:42:34,239 --> 00:42:38,439 Speaker 3: who have experienced losing their husband, losing their brother, people 857 00:42:38,520 --> 00:42:41,960 Speaker 3: who have just experienced domestic abuse, who have experienced great loss. 858 00:42:42,680 --> 00:42:45,719 Speaker 3: It's people from all different walks of life, experts on 859 00:42:45,760 --> 00:42:49,000 Speaker 3: all these different topics, and it was so important to 860 00:42:49,040 --> 00:42:51,319 Speaker 3: me to give people a voice because I never had one, 861 00:42:52,120 --> 00:42:54,800 Speaker 3: and I just truly feel that, you know, I carried 862 00:42:54,880 --> 00:42:58,040 Speaker 3: so much shame for so many different parts of my trauma, 863 00:42:58,080 --> 00:43:01,120 Speaker 3: for the sexual abuse, for the abuse when I was 864 00:43:01,160 --> 00:43:03,279 Speaker 3: a kid with my mom, for the abandonment that I 865 00:43:03,320 --> 00:43:05,759 Speaker 3: had suffered. I mean, there's so many different forms of 866 00:43:05,760 --> 00:43:09,040 Speaker 3: trauma that we all carry and we all carry shame 867 00:43:09,080 --> 00:43:11,600 Speaker 3: from them, and I just truly believe that, like you know, 868 00:43:11,680 --> 00:43:14,959 Speaker 3: the shame dies when we talk about it. And I've 869 00:43:15,000 --> 00:43:18,120 Speaker 3: always wanted to help. I knew that I always wanted 870 00:43:18,120 --> 00:43:20,120 Speaker 3: to help in some capacity. It used to be that 871 00:43:20,160 --> 00:43:21,800 Speaker 3: I wanted to be a social worker and I was 872 00:43:21,840 --> 00:43:24,160 Speaker 3: going to change the system, and I wanted to do this, 873 00:43:24,280 --> 00:43:27,200 Speaker 3: but this just feels it's never felt more aligned. And 874 00:43:27,239 --> 00:43:30,720 Speaker 3: I want people to just feel seen to feel heard, 875 00:43:30,960 --> 00:43:32,799 Speaker 3: to feel like they have a platform to use their 876 00:43:32,880 --> 00:43:37,200 Speaker 3: voice and be inspired to hear how these other survivors 877 00:43:37,560 --> 00:43:40,759 Speaker 3: are sharing how they survived it, how they came out, 878 00:43:40,920 --> 00:43:44,160 Speaker 3: how they're living a really beautiful life because it is possible. 879 00:43:44,200 --> 00:43:48,359 Speaker 3: I mean, I came from nothing, Like I didn't have 880 00:43:48,400 --> 00:43:51,160 Speaker 3: a charmed life. I didn't have We lived in poverty, 881 00:43:51,280 --> 00:43:54,320 Speaker 3: you know, I didn't have these opportunities to go to 882 00:43:54,400 --> 00:43:56,919 Speaker 3: school and do all these things. But we can find 883 00:43:56,920 --> 00:44:00,439 Speaker 3: the strength to live a beautiful life whenever that looks 884 00:44:00,480 --> 00:44:00,759 Speaker 3: like for. 885 00:44:00,760 --> 00:44:03,839 Speaker 2: You, what do you feel the biggest thing that you 886 00:44:03,880 --> 00:44:06,440 Speaker 2: recognize in your life? Now? What would the word that 887 00:44:06,480 --> 00:44:09,439 Speaker 2: comes to mind be just from coming or just from 888 00:44:09,520 --> 00:44:11,640 Speaker 2: telling your story and like coming out with your story, 889 00:44:11,880 --> 00:44:14,200 Speaker 2: what's the word that comes to mind that has been 890 00:44:14,200 --> 00:44:15,640 Speaker 2: the biggest change in your life. 891 00:44:16,120 --> 00:44:19,640 Speaker 3: Strength. I used to think I was the weakest person. 892 00:44:20,400 --> 00:44:23,040 Speaker 3: I used to see myself. I was like, I used 893 00:44:23,080 --> 00:44:26,760 Speaker 3: to see myself as like this incredibly weak and vulnerable person. 894 00:44:27,040 --> 00:44:29,919 Speaker 3: And I never seen how strong I was. I never 895 00:44:29,920 --> 00:44:31,560 Speaker 3: did until I started saying it out loud. 896 00:44:32,280 --> 00:44:36,200 Speaker 2: Wow, that's I mean, I'm like shocked because that is 897 00:44:36,239 --> 00:44:38,560 Speaker 2: the first thing I thought to tell you. You know, 898 00:44:38,840 --> 00:44:39,320 Speaker 2: like really. 899 00:44:39,520 --> 00:44:42,080 Speaker 3: Yeah. I know it's funny because when my episodes first 900 00:44:42,120 --> 00:44:44,120 Speaker 3: came out, I was like, people are just going to 901 00:44:44,160 --> 00:44:46,680 Speaker 3: say I'm whining like that was just always you know, 902 00:44:47,480 --> 00:44:49,680 Speaker 3: like shut up and just deal with it. Yeah, everyone 903 00:44:49,719 --> 00:44:52,319 Speaker 3: has crap in their life, and I just felt so 904 00:44:52,400 --> 00:44:55,840 Speaker 3: weak and strength is my word. 905 00:44:56,440 --> 00:44:58,920 Speaker 2: That just goes to show the narratives in our head. 906 00:44:59,360 --> 00:45:02,920 Speaker 2: I mean how crazy off they can be when we 907 00:45:03,040 --> 00:45:05,600 Speaker 2: haven't dealt with you know, what we've gone through. 908 00:45:06,239 --> 00:45:10,080 Speaker 3: Yes, and I mean trauma tells us all sorts of lies, 909 00:45:10,120 --> 00:45:12,600 Speaker 3: but trauma tells us that it's not okay to be yourself, 910 00:45:12,680 --> 00:45:14,839 Speaker 3: that nobody will like you, and you know those are 911 00:45:15,480 --> 00:45:18,400 Speaker 3: you're not strong, Like it's just the lies trauma tells us. 912 00:45:18,480 --> 00:45:22,799 Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, if anyone is listening and they have either 913 00:45:22,800 --> 00:45:25,520 Speaker 2: been through a similar experience or they're just looking to 914 00:45:25,560 --> 00:45:27,960 Speaker 2: dive into their trauma, do you have any resources or 915 00:45:28,080 --> 00:45:31,520 Speaker 2: just any tools that you would say, as like the 916 00:45:31,600 --> 00:45:33,640 Speaker 2: first start, where do you go? What can you look 917 00:45:33,680 --> 00:45:36,839 Speaker 2: into if they're willing to maybe start navigating that road. 918 00:45:37,000 --> 00:45:40,440 Speaker 3: You know, before I even started therapy, I picked up 919 00:45:40,480 --> 00:45:43,279 Speaker 3: trauma books. That was I didn't have the humility to 920 00:45:43,360 --> 00:45:46,319 Speaker 3: go to therapy. I was really embarrassed. But before I 921 00:45:46,360 --> 00:45:50,120 Speaker 3: even did that, trauma books were a big thing for me. 922 00:45:50,200 --> 00:45:52,560 Speaker 3: Trauma podcasts were a big thing for me. It's hard 923 00:45:52,560 --> 00:45:55,120 Speaker 3: to find a trauma podcast where your podcast where people 924 00:45:55,160 --> 00:45:58,000 Speaker 3: are willing to have those hard conversations, like I always 925 00:45:58,080 --> 00:46:01,000 Speaker 3: found that there was like a little bit sugarcoating around 926 00:46:01,000 --> 00:46:04,480 Speaker 3: it. It was kind of cute, right, And it's not cute. 927 00:46:04,840 --> 00:46:07,960 Speaker 3: It's ugly and it's hard, and you know, that's what 928 00:46:08,040 --> 00:46:11,880 Speaker 3: I found really helpful. Meditating has always been really foreign 929 00:46:11,920 --> 00:46:15,120 Speaker 3: to me and it's something that I lean on so 930 00:46:15,320 --> 00:46:18,000 Speaker 3: heavily now. And the way I started because I could 931 00:46:18,000 --> 00:46:20,160 Speaker 3: not sit still, I could not calm down my mind. 932 00:46:20,600 --> 00:46:23,319 Speaker 3: I started using the Superhuman app because it seems more 933 00:46:23,360 --> 00:46:25,600 Speaker 3: like a it's more like an active meditation and then 934 00:46:25,640 --> 00:46:27,880 Speaker 3: you can go into the deeper ones. But it really 935 00:46:28,640 --> 00:46:31,920 Speaker 3: changed my nervous system. It completely changed my nervous system. 936 00:46:32,000 --> 00:46:34,399 Speaker 3: So that was a really big resource for me. And 937 00:46:34,560 --> 00:46:37,799 Speaker 3: you know, moving my body was key and setting those 938 00:46:37,800 --> 00:46:42,359 Speaker 3: boundaries and learning Number one was learning about trauma and 939 00:46:42,360 --> 00:46:44,000 Speaker 3: what it does to your body, what it does to 940 00:46:44,040 --> 00:46:47,160 Speaker 3: your nervous system, why you're reacting to people the way 941 00:46:47,160 --> 00:46:49,960 Speaker 3: you are, why you're constantly hurt by things. Why you're 942 00:46:50,000 --> 00:46:52,480 Speaker 3: constantly reacting to your spouse or your children, or your 943 00:46:52,520 --> 00:46:56,080 Speaker 3: parents or your friends. Like learning about why was key, 944 00:46:56,120 --> 00:46:57,600 Speaker 3: and I think that's important for everybody. 945 00:46:58,200 --> 00:46:59,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, I love them that the name of your pop 946 00:47:00,120 --> 00:47:03,279 Speaker 2: cast as Invisible Scars, because one of the things you 947 00:47:03,320 --> 00:47:05,120 Speaker 2: talk about when you were telling your story was that 948 00:47:05,160 --> 00:47:06,719 Speaker 2: like people you still look at you and go, well, 949 00:47:06,719 --> 00:47:08,600 Speaker 2: you grew up with a silver spoon, right, And it's like, 950 00:47:09,160 --> 00:47:12,799 Speaker 2: how off is that statement? But that's how well we 951 00:47:12,920 --> 00:47:15,960 Speaker 2: hide things, and like that is such an epidemic in 952 00:47:16,000 --> 00:47:19,280 Speaker 2: our culture. I feel of just this social media world 953 00:47:19,400 --> 00:47:22,680 Speaker 2: that makes everything look perfect, Like we are so programmed 954 00:47:22,920 --> 00:47:25,440 Speaker 2: to present that way, and that could not have been 955 00:47:25,480 --> 00:47:26,480 Speaker 2: further from the truth in. 956 00:47:26,520 --> 00:47:29,919 Speaker 3: Your story, could not have been further from the truth. 957 00:47:29,920 --> 00:47:31,480 Speaker 3: And you know, I remember when people would say that 958 00:47:31,480 --> 00:47:33,799 Speaker 3: to me and be like, no, I wasn't like we 959 00:47:33,840 --> 00:47:37,120 Speaker 3: had salvation army hampers dropped up to us at Christmas, right, 960 00:47:37,480 --> 00:47:39,880 Speaker 3: And they'd be like, yeah, right, You're just no, Like 961 00:47:39,960 --> 00:47:43,360 Speaker 3: so it's just it really reminded me, especially when I 962 00:47:43,400 --> 00:47:45,880 Speaker 3: was doing this podcast, how I wanted to show up 963 00:47:45,920 --> 00:47:50,240 Speaker 3: so authentically and I had to stop pretending like everything 964 00:47:50,360 --> 00:47:51,360 Speaker 3: was perfect. 965 00:47:52,239 --> 00:47:54,839 Speaker 2: That I had to stop pretending. That is crazy. We 966 00:47:54,920 --> 00:47:59,520 Speaker 2: have to stop ourselves too, We have to stop pretending. Yeah, yeah, yeah, Jeslin, 967 00:47:59,560 --> 00:48:01,359 Speaker 2: thank you so much for being here. I can't tell 968 00:48:01,360 --> 00:48:04,000 Speaker 2: you how much this has impacted me the last two days, 969 00:48:04,040 --> 00:48:06,640 Speaker 2: just like prepping and listening to your story. I'm so 970 00:48:06,760 --> 00:48:09,120 Speaker 2: glad that you're telling it, and I think it's going 971 00:48:09,160 --> 00:48:11,440 Speaker 2: to help a ton of people. If people do want 972 00:48:11,480 --> 00:48:13,520 Speaker 2: to keep up with you, where else can they find you? 973 00:48:14,160 --> 00:48:17,640 Speaker 3: Yeah? You can find me on Instagram at Invisible Scars 974 00:48:17,640 --> 00:48:21,360 Speaker 3: Podcast and also I have an online clothing batiquet at 975 00:48:21,400 --> 00:48:24,320 Speaker 3: shop Doated, and we have a website as well, Invisible 976 00:48:24,320 --> 00:48:25,120 Speaker 3: Scars Podcast. 977 00:48:25,600 --> 00:48:27,520 Speaker 2: Amazing. I'll put all of that in the description of 978 00:48:27,520 --> 00:48:29,919 Speaker 2: this podcast for you guys. Thank you so much again 979 00:48:29,960 --> 00:48:32,000 Speaker 2: for the vulnerability and just sharing your story. And you 980 00:48:32,040 --> 00:48:34,280 Speaker 2: guys go check out the Invisible Scars Podcast. 981 00:48:34,680 --> 00:48:35,480 Speaker 3: Thank you, Kelly. 982 00:48:36,040 --> 00:48:39,040 Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to The Velvet's Edge Podcast with Kelly Henderson, 983 00:48:39,239 --> 00:48:41,719 Speaker 1: where we believe everyone has a little velvet in a 984 00:48:41,760 --> 00:48:45,920 Speaker 1: little edge. Subscribe for more conversations on life, style, beauty, 985 00:48:45,960 --> 00:48:49,680 Speaker 1: and relationships. Search Velvet's Edge wherever you get your podcasts.