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Speaker 1: Now here's a highlight from Coast to Coast AM on iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: So let's get back at it. I think we closed out.

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Speaker 2: I think we closed out with Steve, So Paul from

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Speaker 2: Team Roswell, We're going to let you go ahead and

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Speaker 2: start it from there. If that's okay, Steve, you good

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Speaker 2: with that? You okay letting Paul go Yes, Paul.

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Speaker 3: Was very accommodating to let me drone on it. Absolutely,

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Speaker 3: Paul's turned drone on.

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Speaker 2: Okay, that's Steve Edmondson with Sheean Washington. We've got Paul

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Speaker 2: Simonis now with Team Rosswell, well.

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Speaker 4: Steve, I'm a little bit used to that because you're

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Speaker 4: a lawyer. Well, I spent sixteen years as a forensic

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Speaker 4: engineer doing the investigation and being called to give, you know, testimony,

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Speaker 4: So you know, I'm the forensic engineer who investigated the

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Speaker 4: crashes and collected the evidence and marshalled the testing data,

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Speaker 4: and then and then you know, lawyers like yourself would

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Speaker 4: play all the games of the legal rules and coming

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Speaker 4: up with ways to exclude my great evidence because it

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Speaker 4: was inadmissible or you know, hearsay or whatever like that.

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Speaker 5: So I'm kind of used to it.

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Speaker 4: But you know the reality is your Maury Island case.

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Speaker 4: I think we both have to admit we are like

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Speaker 4: living walking X files posters.

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Speaker 5: I want to believe.

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Speaker 4: I want the Maury Island case to be true. I

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Speaker 4: want the Roswell case to be true. I want Kenneth

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Speaker 4: Arnold to have truly seen nine non human objects flying

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Speaker 4: through the sky. I'd love for that to be the case.

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Speaker 4: I do have some problems though, in contrasting the Roswell

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Speaker 4: case with the Maury Island case. The Maury Island case

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Speaker 4: ought to be able to have ironclad documentary proof from

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Speaker 4: the time that helps us assess the credibility of.

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Speaker 5: The case that one should have it. We should not

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Speaker 5: be surprised that Roswell is not, because here's the difference.

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Speaker 4: Roswell has military officers from the world's only at the

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Speaker 4: time atomic capable Strike Group as the first ones documenting

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Speaker 4: the crash site and documenting the material and transporting It's

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Speaker 4: no surprise that whatever reports and photographs that they generated,

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Speaker 4: they are still classified and lost to us today. Maury Island,

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Speaker 4: on the other hand, is an incident where you have

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Speaker 4: a boat that's in the water that suffers an event

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Speaker 4: that damages the boat that injures a child and kills

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Speaker 4: a dog.

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Speaker 5: And that boat eventually is going to come back into

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Speaker 5: the dock. You know, there shouldn't there have been an

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Speaker 5: insurance claim filed for the damage to the boat.

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Speaker 4: Shouldn't we have documents from an insurance adjuster examining and

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Speaker 4: photographing what happened to the boat, so that we have

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Speaker 4: some sort of surviving forensic evidence today. Shouldn't the boy

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Speaker 4: have been taken to the doctor and there should be

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Speaker 4: some medical records that the family of mister Dahl had

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Speaker 4: for his son. Shouldn't there be some evidence somewhere of

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Speaker 4: of of the dog, how he was killed, and you know,

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Speaker 4: where was he buried? Did they you know, did they

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Speaker 4: have a little graveside service in their backyard, a little

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Speaker 4: a little cross for the doggie in their backyard? Did

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Speaker 4: the the Maury Island case is a case where existing

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Speaker 4: forensic evidence, documentation from the time should still exist. I

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Speaker 4: would love to find out from you if I'm just wrong,

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Speaker 4: if maybe some of it does. But you know, and

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Speaker 4: in my career investigating crashes, this is the frustrating thing

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Speaker 4: about the Roswell case. In my career investigating automotive crashes.

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Speaker 4: As a as a forensic engineer, you'd always start with

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Speaker 4: the document created at the time at the place, frequently

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Speaker 4: created at the scene of the accident by a certified

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Speaker 4: law enforcement professional, and that document exists. And then in

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Speaker 4: the modern age, photographs are taken of the vehicles at

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Speaker 4: their point of rest, and then later on a forensic

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Speaker 4: in engineer can go and lay hands on those vehicles

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Speaker 4: and can go to the scene and compare the surviving

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Speaker 4: tire marks and gouge marks with the map that was

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Speaker 4: drawn by the police officer at the time, and then

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Speaker 4: we can collect we can we can do the science

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Speaker 4: to what happened. In the frustrating case about Roswell's we

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Speaker 4: don't have any of that. The only thing we have

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Speaker 4: that survives from from from from from an investigative path

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Speaker 4: is basically the testimony, the testimony of the witnesses after

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Speaker 4: the fact, which we get in modern car crash cases, right,

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Speaker 4: you know, it's the depositions that are taken of the witnesses.

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Speaker 4: But we can compare their testimony to physical evidence generated

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Speaker 4: or documents generated at the scene, and we don't have

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Speaker 4: that in the Roswell case in Maury Island. You should

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Speaker 4: that stuff should exist, and I'm I'm just curious, is

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Speaker 4: there is there any of that around that can help

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Speaker 4: us assess, you know, the Maury Island incident from the

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Speaker 4: time that it occurred, or is all we're left with

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Speaker 4: is the testimony of the people who claim they were

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Speaker 4: involved in the days and weeks out.

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Speaker 5: So that'd be my question.

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Speaker 1: I'd love to hear.

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Speaker 5: I'd love to be wrong, you know, I'd love to

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Speaker 5: be the.

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Speaker 3: Well, I'm glad you. I'm glad you'd love to be

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Speaker 3: wrong because I think you're wrong. And I'll let me

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Speaker 3: tell you why. You know, you just made my case

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Speaker 3: by explaining that what you want to have is a

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Speaker 3: law enforcement officer investigating an incident at the time and

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Speaker 3: at the place and creating reports. I mean, there is

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Speaker 3: no other UFO sighting I believe in history where the

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Speaker 3: FBI came in and conducted an investigation that is as robust.

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Speaker 3: I mean, we're talking nineteen forties and we had a

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Speaker 3: robust investigation where detailed reports of all of the investigation

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Speaker 3: was being you know, the interviews with Harold, all the

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Speaker 3: interviews with Fred Christmin, the interviews with Ken Arnold, everybody

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Speaker 3: involved that they could find they interviewed and they documented.

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Speaker 3: So when I tell the story and rush through and

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Speaker 3: tell the story, I'm not speculating once. I'm telling you

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Speaker 3: the story that is revealed by Agent Jack Wilcox's basic

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Speaker 3: X files reporting. And I can tell you and I

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Speaker 3: know it's fun to make lawyers. I love to make

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Speaker 3: fun of lawyers, right, I love it. But the reason

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Speaker 3: we have these rules of evidence is because we're trying

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Speaker 3: to come up with a way to make sure it's trustworthy. Right,

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Speaker 3: because if someone comes in and says, well, I didn't

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Speaker 3: say anything, but now forty years later, I want to

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Speaker 3: tell you my story, that's inherently problematic from a trust standpoint,

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Speaker 3: what you want is a law enforcement officer investigating at

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Speaker 3: the time like Jack Wilcox did. Jack Wilcox was reporting

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Speaker 3: directly to j Edgar Hoover. If you look at those

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Speaker 3: documents and j Goar Hoover was responding, I mean, it's

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Speaker 3: an incredible treasure troll of evidence. And I will tell

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Speaker 3: you that because those documents were created by a government

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Speaker 3: official at THEI agent acting in the scope of their authority,

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Speaker 3: making those records at the time the interviews were being conducted,

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Speaker 3: they are in fact admissible in court if we had

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Speaker 3: a loss.

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Speaker 5: Let's say, let's says, what's that I have to ask?

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Speaker 4: Did this FBI agent take a look at the boat

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Speaker 4: and take a look at the wounds on the on

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Speaker 4: on on Fred Dahl's son.

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Speaker 3: He did not, not that I'm aware of. He interviewed,

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Speaker 3: he made his Yeah. So I mean, let's you know

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Speaker 3: what I love. I love poking holes in this because

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Speaker 3: that's those are the right questions that we would like

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Speaker 3: to ask. Is you know the point that the challenge

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Speaker 3: we have, I think with Maury Island now attack my

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Speaker 3: own case, is that after these investigations were conducted, you know,

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Speaker 3: you say it was hard to be roswell, which I

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Speaker 3: find a little rich. Hard to be roswell because of

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Speaker 3: the challenges, the FBI and Harold Dall all wanted this

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Speaker 3: to go away, and they closed the case, and they

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Speaker 3: sealed all those records I've been talking about for fifty

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Speaker 3: years as top secret. They weren't released until after nineteen

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Speaker 3: ninety seven. So the notion of anyone asking me a

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Speaker 3: one additional question was off the table never happened. That's

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Speaker 3: why nobody ever heard of Maury Island. It disappeared it's

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Speaker 3: the ultimate government cover up. They just erased it so

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Speaker 3: nobody could get interested a guy like Steve Edminston or

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Speaker 3: Vincent Zusa or Jason Mason that comes across the story.

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Speaker 3: The problem is it would never come across the story

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Speaker 3: it was gone. So I think the issue with Maury

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Speaker 3: Island is one of we we have a great treasure

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Speaker 3: trove of actual evidence and we need to do more work.

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Speaker 3: And I don't think it's a good idea to suggest.

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Speaker 3: I wouldn't suggest that you shouldn't be doing more work

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Speaker 3: for Roswell, and I don't think you're suggesting that we

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Speaker 3: shouldn't be doing more work for Moray Islands. I think

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Speaker 3: it's worthy of it. I think the challenge I have,

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Speaker 3: the real challenge I have is, you know, one of

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Speaker 3: the jokes we have we have the the Roswell one

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Speaker 3: phrases the Roswell monoculture, and the other is the Roswell

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Speaker 3: Industrial Complex, is that it's a black hole. You know,

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Speaker 3: it's everybody wants to find a scrap of evidence about

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Speaker 3: Roswell because they know there's a market if they can

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Speaker 3: write that book, and we don't. We just don't have

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Speaker 3: any energy around any other UFO stories, and certainly in

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Speaker 3: nineteen forty seven, we don't have any energy around scholarship

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Speaker 3: relating it to Moury Island or Momornaire. And we should

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Speaker 3: be doing that. We should all be promoting that because

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Speaker 3: I think if we had, you know, not four books

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Speaker 3: about more I think that's the number on Amazon, but

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Speaker 3: we had one hundred, I'm guessing we'd have found a

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Speaker 3: lot more evidence as people come to the investigative practice,

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Speaker 3: just like you're doing with Rogers.

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Speaker 5: I do find it interesting, though, that.

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Speaker 4: An FBI agent was reporting directly to j Edgar Hoover.

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Speaker 4: He's tell me if I'm wrong. He's not doing much

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Speaker 4: more than any other UFO researcher would do today, which

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Speaker 4: is go talk to the people, take down what they

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Speaker 4: had to say, compile it all together. But he didn't

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Speaker 4: go look at the physical evidence. I mean, that is

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Speaker 4: astonishing to me. What and I guess the question is

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Speaker 4: what does that say? More broadly, what does that say

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Speaker 4: about how the FBI was treating this whole phenomenon.

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Speaker 5: I don't know. I don't know, but you might have

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Speaker 5: an insight on this, Steve, Yeah, is THEBI?

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Speaker 1: I mean the FBI?

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Speaker 4: No, Well, I was I was just gonna say, is

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Speaker 4: the FBI doing this investigation simply because it's garnering a

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Speaker 4: lot of news attention. There's some pressure coming down from

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Speaker 4: the top that this thing needs to be shut down.

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Speaker 4: You know, go, you know, put your fig leaf on,

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Speaker 4: you know, go do your investigation, file a report done.

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Speaker 5: Okay, We'll try to make the whole thing go away.

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Speaker 5: You know that could put that could pose.

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Speaker 4: That becomes an interesting data point or an important data

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Speaker 4: point to to confirm this overall idea that there's an

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Speaker 4: effort to shut the story down by the government. Why

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Speaker 4: are they trying to shut down something that if it's

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Speaker 4: not real, and of course it's it's after Marie Island,

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Speaker 4: after Roswell that the Air Force, Well, now that they've

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Speaker 4: got the story shut down in the national press, the

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Speaker 4: Air Force puts out that famous memorandum and says the

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Speaker 4: flying saucerge are something real, not visionary or fictitious, when

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Speaker 4: we need to start researching. I'm wondering, I'm just I'm

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Speaker 4: kind of throwing you a bone here, Steve. I'm wondering,

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Speaker 4: you know what, what does the FBI investigation of the

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Speaker 4: Marie Island density It seems to me as a friendsic

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Speaker 4: engineer interested in physical evidence seems to me to be

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Speaker 4: a little bit lacking.

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Speaker 5: What does that tell.

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Speaker 4: Us about kind of the seriousness with which the government

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Speaker 4: was taking this and trying to shut it all down.

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Speaker 3: Well, thanks for throwing me a bone. I like that phrase.

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Speaker 3: I'll take it. You have to remember the subtext of

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Speaker 3: this investigation. This wasn't one of the hundreds of investigations

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Speaker 3: being conducted in the summer of nineteen forty seven by

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Speaker 3: FBI agents and Army intelligence officers because they're worried about

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Speaker 3: Soviet overflights. This was an investigation that had a lot

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Speaker 3: of heightened scrutiny because a B twenty five bomber had

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Speaker 3: crashed allegedly carrying top secret cargo which was flagged from

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Speaker 3: the Moray Island incident. That's all in the Army's final

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Speaker 3: mission report. There's no disputed as to that.

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