WEBVTT - Short Stuff: The Retirement Curse

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<v Speaker 1>Hey, and welcome to the short stuff. Chuck, Jerry, Dave,

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<v Speaker 1>short stuff, tally ho.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, we're talking about retirement today and specifically what can

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<v Speaker 2>be referred to as the retirement curse, which is this

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<v Speaker 2>idea that, you know, maybe you're doing fine in life

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<v Speaker 2>and you're chugging along at your job and then you

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<v Speaker 2>retire and you encounter all sorts of problems, maybe mental

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<v Speaker 2>health problems, maybe physical health problems. And retirement can be

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<v Speaker 2>the trigger to that kind of thing.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah. I mean, I think it's one of those things

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<v Speaker 1>where a lot of people are familiar with anecdotally, like

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<v Speaker 1>maybe they've seen somebody, you know, just their health declines

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<v Speaker 1>very quickly or it's just something changes for the worse

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<v Speaker 1>from retirement. Um, and it's actually quantifiable. Um, and apparently

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<v Speaker 1>five to six years after retirement, this is just the

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<v Speaker 1>average American. I suspect it's not quite as bad elsewhere.

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<v Speaker 1>And in fact, I couldn't find mention of the retirement

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<v Speaker 1>curse as we're presenting it anywhere else. It does seem

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<v Speaker 1>to be a semi American phenomenon.

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<v Speaker 2>Interesting.

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<v Speaker 1>But there's this, uh, The average American shows a 6%

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<v Speaker 1>to 9% decline in mental health within the first five

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<v Speaker 1>to six years after retirement. A 5% to 6% increase

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<v Speaker 1>in illness condition, right?

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>A 5% to 16% increase in difficulties with daily activities.

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<v Speaker 1>And when they control all the other variables, they're like,

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<v Speaker 1>it seems to be retirement. But of course, retirement itself

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<v Speaker 1>is not doing this to you. It's all the life

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<v Speaker 1>changes that come from retirement.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, exactly. It's that transition. How you deal with that

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<v Speaker 2>is really, really key and something that you really got

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<v Speaker 2>to think about going into it. I hope if you're

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<v Speaker 2>a person of retirement age, you've got a plan in place.

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<v Speaker 2>We're going to talk more about that. But it seems

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<v Speaker 2>like the worst cases are when people just retire and

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<v Speaker 2>all of a sudden they're like, wait a minute, I

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<v Speaker 2>have my days free all the time. I'm not going

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<v Speaker 2>to this place anymore. If you went to an office,

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<v Speaker 2>let's say. I'm not surrounded by people every day that

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<v Speaker 2>I normally might be. You know, going to work is

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<v Speaker 2>mental engagement. And, you know, even if you're not doing

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<v Speaker 2>like hard labor, just getting up and getting out of

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<v Speaker 2>bed and going to an office and moving about the

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<v Speaker 2>world represents some kind of physical activity. And especially if

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<v Speaker 2>when you retire, you just kind of hit the couch

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<v Speaker 2>or the recliner. That's that's a big difference.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah. Also, like those people that you're interacting with, even

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<v Speaker 1>if you work from home, just interacting with them on

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<v Speaker 1>calls or via email, like you don't have that all

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<v Speaker 1>of a sudden. If you start emailing those same people,

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<v Speaker 1>they're like, you retired. Go do your thing. I'm trying

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<v Speaker 1>to work here. Yeah. You know, they don't let you

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<v Speaker 1>in on calls any longer. And so if you don't

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<v Speaker 1>already have a pretty tight circle of friends outside of work,

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<v Speaker 1>which a lot of Americans do not.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>Especially as you get older, it just gets harder and harder.

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<v Speaker 1>to make friends. And because you spend a lot of

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<v Speaker 1>your time at work, those people become your friends de facto.

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<v Speaker 1>If you don't have that network already in place, you

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<v Speaker 1>need to go figure out how to do it because

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<v Speaker 1>that is probably ultimately what's behind the decline more than anything.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, for sure. And like we said, we need you

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<v Speaker 2>need to have a plan in place for, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>we'll talk about exercise and social engagement and stuff like that,

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<v Speaker 2>or maybe just keep working or work part time or

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<v Speaker 2>volunteer and And maybe we'll take a break and talk

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<v Speaker 2>a little bit about those work statistics right after this.

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<v Speaker 3>Oh, yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>All right.

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<v Speaker 2>I got this from the Bureau of Labor Statistics here

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<v Speaker 2>in the United States, kind of the picture over the

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<v Speaker 2>years of, of when people stop working. Uh, I think

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<v Speaker 2>in 1948, uh, the, the rate of people age 65

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<v Speaker 2>and older working was 27%. Um, 47% of men, 9%

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<v Speaker 2>of women, um, age 65 and older started trending down

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<v Speaker 2>in the latter half of the 20th century and hit

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<v Speaker 2>its lowest point in 1985. And only 10% of, uh,

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<v Speaker 2>people of the age of 65 were working. And since 1985,

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<v Speaker 2>that started to grow and started to trend upward, like

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<v Speaker 2>people working later and later. Right. Because sometimes economic necessity,

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<v Speaker 2>sometimes just preference. And then the last year I had available,

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<v Speaker 2>at least, was 2024, when it was about 19% of

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<v Speaker 2>people age 65 and over still working. And I think 38%

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<v Speaker 2>of those were doing so part-time.

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<v Speaker 3>Right.

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<v Speaker 1>You can also like the fact that it hit its

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<v Speaker 1>low point in 1985. That's just about the time the

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<v Speaker 1>unions got broken up and pensions went away and got

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<v Speaker 1>replaced by 401k.

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<v Speaker 2>Interesting.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>So and that is one reason why a lot of

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<v Speaker 1>people stay in the workforce is financial necessity. When I

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<v Speaker 1>was looking for the retirement curse abroad outside of the

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<v Speaker 1>United States. One reference I found was in Australia, but

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<v Speaker 1>essentially what they were talking about was the retirement curse

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<v Speaker 1>of outliving your savings. And a lot of people are

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<v Speaker 1>scared to death by that idea. And there's a lot

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<v Speaker 1>of people in the United States who are like, I

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<v Speaker 1>have to keep working. I don't have a choice because

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<v Speaker 1>I'm going to keep living longer beyond my savings. So

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<v Speaker 1>that's a big one, especially because we don't have universal

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<v Speaker 1>single payer free health care here in the United States.

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<v Speaker 1>That gets more and more expensive the older you get.

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<v Speaker 1>And you happen to need it more and more the

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<v Speaker 1>older you get, too. So the insurance plan that mostly

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<v Speaker 1>you get that through your employer, you used to before Obamacare.

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<v Speaker 1>If you have a good insurance plan that you don't

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<v Speaker 1>pay that much for through your employer, that in and

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<v Speaker 1>of itself is reason enough to keep working for a

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<v Speaker 1>lot of Americans. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>End of life care is really, really, really expensive. Another reason.

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<v Speaker 1>It's a real screw job.

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<v Speaker 2>It is. Yeah, you work your whole life and then

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<v Speaker 2>get hit with a tremendous bill that you can't afford

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<v Speaker 2>at the end of it.

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<v Speaker 3>Exactly.

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<v Speaker 2>It's sad. So personal choice is another reason. People are

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<v Speaker 2>generally healthier and living longer these days compared to previous decades.

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<v Speaker 2>And so a lot of people just want to keep

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<v Speaker 2>working because it gives them a sense of purpose, something

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<v Speaker 2>to do.

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<v Speaker 1>They want to keep joining those calls.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Well, and remote work is another reason why people

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<v Speaker 2>are working a little later because, hey, you're at home,

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<v Speaker 2>so no skin off your back.

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<v Speaker 1>Yep. So there's actually a Harvard study that was like, okay,

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<v Speaker 1>what's behind all of this? Because yes, everybody, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>has some sort of anecdotal data, but there's got to

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<v Speaker 1>be some factor that really rises above everything else. And

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<v Speaker 1>Harvard's been studying this cohort of 724 men for over

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<v Speaker 1>75 years now. There's only 60 of them left and

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<v Speaker 1>they're all in their 90s. But every two years they

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<v Speaker 1>track their health. They ask them about their satisfaction in life.

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<v Speaker 1>And they found that when you separate the wheat from

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<v Speaker 1>the chaff, the cream from the milk, the peanut butter

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<v Speaker 1>from the chocolate, what stands is social connections. And we've

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<v Speaker 1>talked about this before, and it makes me really nervous

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<v Speaker 1>every time we do. But the more social connections you have,

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<v Speaker 1>the more connected you are with other people, the more

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<v Speaker 1>you interact with other people, the happier you are, the

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<v Speaker 1>longer life you have, the less disease burden you have

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<v Speaker 1>into old age.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>And just the better off you are in general. It

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<v Speaker 1>seems to be the underlying thing for health into old age.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, for sure. The fourth, this is an amazing study,

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<v Speaker 2>the Harvard Study of Adult Development. And the fourth director

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<v Speaker 2>is a guy named Robert Waldinger, who is a psychiatrist.

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<v Speaker 2>And he has an awesome TED Talk that I recommend

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<v Speaker 2>people watch. And it's a TED Talk. So it's not

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<v Speaker 2>more than what?

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<v Speaker 1>What is it?

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<v Speaker 2>18 minutes or something?

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<v Speaker 1>I don't remember what the, when the.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, there's a set length. I can't remember, but. It's

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<v Speaker 2>called What Makes a Good Life? Lessons from the Longest

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<v Speaker 2>Study on Happiness. And he reiterates what you said is that,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, those relationships are kind of the key to

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<v Speaker 2>remain socially connected and loneliness is toxic. So, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>you want to avoid that stuff, both physically and mentally.

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<v Speaker 2>And on the physical side, one kind of obvious things

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<v Speaker 2>that you should do is, I mean, if you're a

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<v Speaker 2>runner and you do cardio and you can keep doing that,

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<v Speaker 2>that's great. But strength training and stretching and stuff like that,

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<v Speaker 2>resistance exercises is a really big deal to start doing

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<v Speaker 2>or continue to do if you don't do it already

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<v Speaker 2>as you get older.

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<v Speaker 1>It's enormous. It helps keep your bones healthy. It helps

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<v Speaker 1>keep your muscles strong. It prevents things like sarcopenia where

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<v Speaker 1>you develop a stoop. Balance is a big one because

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<v Speaker 1>falls are a big problem as you get older. So

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<v Speaker 1>strength training, resistance training, that helps your balance as well.

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<v Speaker 1>And You also just want to move. One thing I'm

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<v Speaker 1>heartened by is there's so many people who I see

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<v Speaker 1>out taking walks in the middle of the day every day.

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<v Speaker 1>I think that's great. And that's a big part of staying,

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<v Speaker 1>I guess, healthy or just living life is getting outside

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<v Speaker 1>and moving around, even if it is just going for

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<v Speaker 1>a walk, you know, or chasing pigeons at the pond.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, that's, you know, one of the mental aspects

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<v Speaker 2>is daily routine. And if that's chasing pigeons is your thing.

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<v Speaker 2>Like you need to you need to have a plan

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<v Speaker 2>in place and have a routine and not just be like, well,

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<v Speaker 2>what's the day going to throw my way? You know,

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<v Speaker 2>you also need to eat, you know, eat well, obviously,

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<v Speaker 2>nutrient dense foods and get get really good sleep. That's key.

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<v Speaker 2>But like getting out in the world is a big one. And,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, I think everyone has seen this maybe sadly

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<v Speaker 2>somewhere in their family. Like the worst thing you can

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<v Speaker 2>do is turning that television on during daylight hours.

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<v Speaker 1>It gets worse though, Chuck. If you turn it on

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<v Speaker 1>and you turn it on to cable news, you're toast. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>Not only are you going to die, but your family

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<v Speaker 1>wants you dead now.

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<v Speaker 3>Right.

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<v Speaker 1>It's a problem. It is.

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<v Speaker 2>When you start sitting on the couch and watching TV

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<v Speaker 2>during the day, it's you know, it can be the

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<v Speaker 2>beginning of the end. So you need to be out

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<v Speaker 2>in the world. You need to try and learn some

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<v Speaker 2>new things like it's you can get so inspired by seeing,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, either on social media or whatever or news

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<v Speaker 2>stories when you see some of our senior friends out there.

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<v Speaker 2>like taking a dance class for the first time or,

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<v Speaker 2>or a new hobby or learning an instrument or a

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<v Speaker 2>new language or something like that, like that is just

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<v Speaker 2>food for your brain.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah. Like if your local community is like putting a

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<v Speaker 1>one penny tax or something, um, to, to build a

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<v Speaker 1>new senior center, that's money well spent.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>Agreed. Um, and then of course you can volunteer, you

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<v Speaker 1>can mentor. There's a lot of stuff you can do. Um,

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<v Speaker 1>I think the point is to just keep doing stuff.

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<v Speaker 1>Like you said, resist the trap of just sitting on

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<v Speaker 1>the couch all day, you know?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, because the retirement curse is self-inflicted generally. So you

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<v Speaker 2>hopefully have a choice as to how you spend your

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<v Speaker 2>remaining years. And we say, because I'm 55, dude, that's

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<v Speaker 2>coming for me sooner than you. And I want to

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<v Speaker 2>be out in the world. I want to be one

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<v Speaker 2>of those old guys who, Out there on the golf

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<v Speaker 2>course in his 90s or taking a, I want to

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<v Speaker 2>learn to dance, finally, in my 80s.

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<v Speaker 1>That's awesome. What kind of dance?

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<v Speaker 3>Modern? Jazz?

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<v Speaker 2>Breakdancing.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh, that'd be great. The breakdancing grandpa. There's your second

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<v Speaker 1>chapter right there.

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<v Speaker 2>There you have it.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, yes, I think this short stuff proved that we

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<v Speaker 1>are becoming old men and look for short stuff in

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<v Speaker 1>the future on sitting. And I think Chuck's short.

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<v Speaker 3>Stuff is out.

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<v Speaker 2>Stuff You Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio. For

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<v Speaker 2>more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

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<v Speaker 2>or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.