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Speaker 1: Ron Ananian got a new car in the driveway. Do

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Speaker 1: you do you like it? Do you enjoy driving it?

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Speaker 2: Is?

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Speaker 3: It?

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Speaker 1: Is it everything to you?

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Speaker 4: You know?

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Speaker 3: Is it?

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Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, I sit in this car. I'm going

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Speaker 1: to keep this car forever.

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Speaker 3: I love it so much.

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Speaker 1: I'm really going to keep this one a long time.

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Speaker 4: Not gonna happen, cattle, she said, Listen to the data.

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Speaker 1: I haven't coming back the car Doctor. What I would

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Speaker 1: think about doing is and not not to do lock tight.

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Speaker 1: I wouldn't use lock tight in this space because.

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Speaker 2: I don't want to do that.

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Speaker 1: But how about a dab of liquid teflon? White white

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Speaker 1: liquid teflon.

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Speaker 5: Welcome to the radio home of Ron Ananian, the Car Doctor.

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Speaker 5: Since nineteen ninety one. This is where car owners the

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Speaker 5: world overturned to for their definitive opinion automotive repair. If

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Speaker 5: your mechanics giving you a busy signal, pick up the

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Speaker 5: phone and call in.

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Speaker 4: The garage doors.

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Speaker 1: Are open, but I am here to take your calls

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Speaker 1: at eight five five five six ninety nine.

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Speaker 4: Hundred and now running.

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Speaker 1: Did you have a good week? I did. I had

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Speaker 1: a great week, great week of fixing cars, eating turkey,

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Speaker 1: talking to Tom that's sort of like the same thing

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Speaker 1: Turkey Turkey. No, I won't pick on Tom today. I

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Speaker 1: love Tom too much. Tom's the best. I always say it.

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Speaker 1: Tom could get me on the air with a juice

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Speaker 1: canon of string in the middle of the Sahara desert

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Speaker 1: and then he cut the court so I couldn't talk

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Speaker 1: or you couldn't hear me. But either way, we need Tom.

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Speaker 1: I was gonna say, you just don't forget I control

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Speaker 1: your microphone. That's right, Tom. Tom is the master of

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Speaker 1: the microphone. So we have to be nice to Tom.

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Speaker 1: So do you have a nice Turkey day?

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Speaker 6: Tom?

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Speaker 5: Uh?

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I could barely fit down the stairs to get down

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Speaker 1: here to do the show. But yeah, well you know

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Speaker 1: it's so it's you gotta be careful. But that's that's

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Speaker 1: that's this time of year, right, the holidays. So I

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Speaker 1: thought this week, this hour would be a good time

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Speaker 1: to catch up. Our next guest really needs no introduction.

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Speaker 1: We've had Mark Mills here before, and he's just so

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Speaker 1: much fun to listen to. And it's just here's a

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Speaker 1: guy who just makes so much sense about the ev future,

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Speaker 1: and you know, I can't say enough about him. With

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Speaker 1: enough alcolades either, we'd spend the hour just talking about that.

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Speaker 1: So let's not waste any time. Let's bring a board

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Speaker 1: Mark Mills and Manhattan Institute, our favorite physicist. How are

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Speaker 1: you today?

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Speaker 6: Mark?

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Speaker 2: That's a rousing introduction. Thank you, very gruously gracious, Thank you.

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Speaker 6: Well.

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Speaker 1: Listen, I sit and I every once in a while

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Speaker 1: you seem to be get well. Not every once in

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Speaker 1: a while, but I noticed you seem to be getting

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Speaker 1: interviewed more and more. I've seen some of the stuff

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Speaker 1: with John Stossel of late, I've seen some of the

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Speaker 1: other things that you're doing, and more and more people

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Speaker 1: are starting to quote you, and it gives me hope,

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Speaker 1: like are they starting to wake up? You know, here

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Speaker 1: we are a year later, right, we originally talked a

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Speaker 1: year ago, and the eedy future that's being predicted and planned,

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Speaker 1: and you know, old to us just keeps on rolling

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Speaker 1: down the road. You know, how different is it than

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Speaker 1: in a year ago?

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Speaker 2: Mark. It's going to keep herrolling. A lot of money,

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Speaker 2: a lot of money here, a lot a lot of

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Speaker 2: dreams and aspirations. But you know, as I've said before,

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Speaker 2: and we all know, there's going to be lots more

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Speaker 2: electric vehicles in the near future, and there should be

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Speaker 2: there should be lots more. That's that's not what I'm disputing, obviously,

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Speaker 2: And when I when I talk and write about this stuff,

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Speaker 2: it's it's the claim that evs are going to take

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Speaker 2: over the entire automotive market and quickly, and they're going

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Speaker 2: to get cheaper, and they're inherently better, and you know,

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Speaker 2: the whole, the whole narrative, which is very different than

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Speaker 2: it's a great option. It's a great model for a car.

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Speaker 2: There's a lot of people will find it extremely useful,

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Speaker 2: but it's not going to do the things that everybody's

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Speaker 2: sort of claiming in the general. Uh. I guess you

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Speaker 2: could call it mania to think that the electric vehicle

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Speaker 2: is the equivalent of the invention of the car in

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Speaker 2: the first place, and going from the horse and buggy

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Speaker 2: to the auto age, we're transforming the very basis of transportation.

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Speaker 2: And as you know, I use the ham handed analogy

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Speaker 2: that an ev is the equivalent in the late nineteenth

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Speaker 2: century of saying that you've discovered a new way to

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Speaker 2: feed a horse, and so your horse and buggy is

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Speaker 2: going to be superior to the other guy's horse and buggy. Right,

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Speaker 2: both horses and changing what we feed a car's meaningful,

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Speaker 2: absolutely meaningful, but it's not a revolution from a viewpoint

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Speaker 2: of our economy, and it's probably not going to work

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Speaker 2: out quite the way people imagined, either economically or geopolitically.

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Speaker 2: But that's what I've been writing about a lot and

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Speaker 2: talking about because I think it's important. I think we're

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Speaker 2: making some very big mistakes and some very bad capital

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Speaker 2: allocations that will be expensive. And in fact, since we

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Speaker 2: had lived now in an age of inflation, we weren't

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Speaker 2: in the age of inflation a year ago. People didn't

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Speaker 2: think we'd ever see inflation again. I could say, if

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Speaker 2: we were talking economics, an EV costs more than a

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Speaker 2: regular car, and we know that because it's still a

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Speaker 2: case by a lot, and since the EV does the

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Speaker 2: same thing as a regular car, this is the very

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Speaker 2: definition of inflation. You spend the more to get the

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Speaker 2: same output, the same thing, the same product, the same

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Speaker 2: mileel driving. That's inflationary. So you know, subsidizing EV's this

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Speaker 2: is fueling inflation.

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Speaker 1: Frankly interesting, you know, it is a matter of economics, right.

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Speaker 1: General motors this week came out there was an article

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Speaker 1: about them that they claim they're going to stop burning

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Speaker 1: cash on electric vehicles by twenty twenty five.

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Speaker 2: I'll take that bet, you know, I'll take the bet

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Speaker 2: that's not very far away.

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Speaker 1: You know, Listen, I just I just report the news.

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Speaker 1: I don't make it up. I just you know.

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Speaker 2: I read that and a half years Yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 1: I said, how you know? And the article goes on

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Speaker 1: to say the company, which is the largest thoto maker

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Speaker 1: in North America, outline the plan to achieve this goal

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Speaker 1: to investors at a splash event in Manhattan. GM said

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Speaker 1: it will sell one million evs annually starting in twenty

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Speaker 1: twenty five.

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Speaker 2: Well, well they might. They might even have a hard

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Speaker 2: time manufacturing a million a million a year, but never

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Speaker 2: mind selling them. So you gotta have willing buyers wanting

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Speaker 2: to buy them. So I did. I read the same article.

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Speaker 2: Was fascinating. The two things that they said they're gonna

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Speaker 2: uh that are going to happen to allow them to

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Speaker 2: not lose money. No note here that they're admitting they're

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Speaker 2: losing money right they building and selling ev So there's

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Speaker 2: there's an important admission there. So not only are the

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Speaker 2: ees more expensive than they're for inflationary, but the companies

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Speaker 2: that make them are losing money. So this is this

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Speaker 2: is an here's a here's a formula for an industrialization

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Speaker 2: of an economy. Let's make things more expensive that are important,

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Speaker 2: and that's to have the companies making them lose money.

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Speaker 1: Good plan, it makes It makes no sense. And yet

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Speaker 1: you know, it's sort of like we're designing submarines with

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Speaker 1: screen doors and saying, yeah, you'll just get a little wet.

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Speaker 1: You know, there's there's no logic.

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Speaker 2: Here, well, read between the lines other than the fact

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Speaker 2: they're admitting they're losing money. Now, is it pointing out

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Speaker 2: that they expect electric vehicles and batteries to get cheaper

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Speaker 2: very soon. That's that's a discussion to have. That's an

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Speaker 2: expectation which is profoundly wishful thinking. But that's something that

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Speaker 2: is a little more subtle. But the second part that

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Speaker 2: they said was that they were particularly happy about the

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Speaker 2: subsidies that the government is now going to give curacy

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Speaker 2: of tech payers, but subsidies. And now, you know, silly me,

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Speaker 2: I thought that politicians gave us subsidies to reduce the

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Speaker 2: cost of the car we're going to buy. It's more expensive.

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Speaker 2: But no, apparently General Mowers is telling us, Thank you

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Speaker 2: very much. We'll take that money. It'll make it possible

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Speaker 2: for us and their words to raise the price of

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Speaker 2: the car because we're losing money.

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Speaker 3: The whole, the.

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Speaker 2: Whole logic of subsidies was supposed to be to make

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Speaker 2: the cars cheaper, not to hand money to General Motors.

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Speaker 1: But isn't the point of all this well okay, let's

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Speaker 1: let's back up a second. General Motors is losing money.

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Speaker 1: Where is it written that we have to underwrite the

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Speaker 1: creation or the marketing of the electric vehicle? Is the

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Speaker 1: American public or you know the world?

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Speaker 2: I mean by aren't.

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Speaker 1: We pouring money down a dry well? As the expression

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Speaker 1: used to.

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Speaker 2: Be, we are, Well, we all know what the approximate

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Speaker 2: claim here is the reason for all of this, and

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Speaker 2: it's the claim that electric vehicles are quote zero missions vehicles,

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Speaker 2: and by emissions they don't mean nitrogenoxides and carbon monoxide,

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Speaker 2: and so that they mean carbon dioxide. That's the principal motivation,

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Speaker 2: in fact, the entire motivation behind the subsidies and the mandates.

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Speaker 2: And you know the California is saying you can't buy

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Speaker 2: internal combustion engines. It's all about carbon dioxide. That's what

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Speaker 2: they mean by a zero missions vehicle. So since that's

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Speaker 2: the animating purpose of the mandates and the subsidies, it

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Speaker 2: would seem to me it would be useful to ask

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Speaker 2: if that's true. I mean, set aside the obvious that

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Speaker 2: when you plug in a Nevy you have to charge

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Speaker 2: it with something that does involve burning fuel somewhere in America,

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Speaker 2: almost everywhere in this country. But set that aside, because

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Speaker 2: it doesn't have a tail pipe. It's the CO two

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Speaker 2: question is not to use it indelicate word. The question

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Speaker 2: of whether it does dramatically reduced COEO two missions is

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Speaker 2: that sort of fraudulent claim. It's a fraudulent claim because

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Speaker 2: the magnitudive materials and energy needed to mine all the

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Speaker 2: metals needed to make these batteries battery. Remind your listeners

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Speaker 2: who forgotten this from our year ago descruption, the electric

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Speaker 2: car battery weighs about one thousand pounds. You have to

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Speaker 2: dig up. You dig up about five hundred thousand pounds

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Speaker 2: of rock and earth per car battery to make the

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Speaker 2: metals and middles you need for that battery, which involves

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Speaker 2: lots of big machinery, burning lots of fuel, and lots

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Speaker 2: of chemicals and burn lots of fuel, and a lot

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Speaker 2: of processes that burn lops of fuel emit carbon dioxide.

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Speaker 2: So when the electric car shows up on your driveway,

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Speaker 2: before you plugged it in the first eye, driven it

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Speaker 2: one mile, it's already emitted a lot of CO two

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Speaker 2: just somewhere else upstream. So much so that in the

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Speaker 2: Volkswagen has put their own study on this at their website,

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Speaker 2: and God bless them for being honest, so much so

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Speaker 2: that in the calculation Volkslagen did for Europe, for the

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Speaker 2: first sixty thousand miles you drive in a volk Slagen

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Speaker 2: electric vehicle, you're admitting more CO two than if you

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Speaker 2: just drove the diesel suv that trying to replace. Wow,

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Speaker 2: that that doesn't make it zero missions. And they do

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Speaker 2: say if you drive it another thirty thousand miles, it

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Speaker 2: will result in a net reduction in CO two missions,

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Speaker 2: but not talking zero. We're talking a reduction of you know,

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Speaker 2: twenty thirty percent, maybe forty percent, some number, depending on

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Speaker 2: how you charge it, but not zero. And it's more expensive.

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Speaker 2: They're just not cheaper, right, So.

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Speaker 1: Where does that Let's do this. Let's pull over, take

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Speaker 1: a pause. You know, my question was going to be

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Speaker 1: Orev's greener, and I think you've got us in the

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Speaker 1: middle of it, so we'll pick it up on the

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Speaker 1: other side. I'm here with Mark Mills of the Manhattan Institute.

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Speaker 1: We're talking EV's today. I'm ronn Enie and the car Doctor.

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Speaker 1: We'll both be back right after this.

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Speaker 6: Don't go away.

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Speaker 1: Need advice on how to maintain that classic gt O.

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Speaker 1: Ron is the guy eight five five five six zero

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Speaker 1: nine nine zero zero.

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Speaker 2: Here's Ron.

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Speaker 1: Welcome back, Ron Anani and at your service. We're here

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Speaker 1: with Mark Mills of the Manhattan Institute talking EV's this hour. Mark,

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Speaker 1: So are EV's greener? The answer has to be no.

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Speaker 2: Well they're greener in some respects. It just depends on

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Speaker 2: how you know. This life is complicated. This is very annoying.

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Speaker 2: Everybody wants a simple answer. So evs don't have a

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Speaker 2: tail type. We know this not complicated. So that has

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Speaker 2: some benefits if you're in a dense urban area, it

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Speaker 2: is a significant benefit to shifting emissions to areas remote

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Speaker 2: wordas congestion and be nice to have zeromissions there of

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Speaker 2: metrogenoxides in particular, you know, and carbon monoxide. Just that

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Speaker 2: would be nice, and I think there's an extraordinary good

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Speaker 2: case for easys and dance urban cores. Frankly, the distances

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Speaker 2: aren't long. There's all kinds of benefits. So yes, that's good.

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Speaker 2: But then if the question is different, do they have

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Speaker 2: you know, zero emissions, Well, no, of course they don't.

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Speaker 2: They're just admitting stuff elsewhere at a different.

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Speaker 1: Times, somewhere in the life cycle.

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Speaker 2: Some of the life cycle also. Look the battery charging,

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Speaker 2: which has been talked about a lot, is actually important

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Speaker 2: serious issue. If you charge your car at certain times

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Speaker 2: of the day in certain parts of the country or

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Speaker 2: the world, you could be charging your battery with hyperpower

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Speaker 2: zero emissions. You can be charging with nuclear power, depending

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Speaker 2: where you live, time of day, you could be charging

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Speaker 2: with coal power. If you're in China, where's two thirds

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Speaker 2: of its grids coal fired, and you charge at night,

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Speaker 2: it's essentially all coal. It's the cold car. If you

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Speaker 2: charge it in I don't know, let's see the Northeast

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Speaker 2: in the middle of the day, it's probably going to

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Speaker 2: be natural gas on a cloudy day because of the

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Speaker 2: gas turbans. So knowing the emissions that are associated with

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Speaker 2: your particular driving behavior, it's very complicated and not obvious

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Speaker 2: with a gasling car. The emissions from a gasing car,

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Speaker 2: give or take a little bit, are exactly the same

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Speaker 2: whenever you run it, wherever you drive it, whenever you

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Speaker 2: fuel it, whatever part of the planet you're on. The

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Speaker 2: emissions are just almost without exception, identical, no matter where

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Speaker 2: you are, what you're doing, so we know exactly what

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Speaker 2: they are. It's an electric vehicle, we don't know. And

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Speaker 2: if we wanted to say, look, we'd only want you

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Speaker 2: to charge your car with low or zero missions electricity. Okay,

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Speaker 2: fair enough. So I could use GPS locators, I can

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Speaker 2: use the software and the internet and your car and

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Speaker 2: make it so that you would not be able to

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Speaker 2: charge your car when it's not it's not permitted, because

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Speaker 2: you'd be charging with coal or natural gas, or with oil,

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Speaker 2: or with nukes, because you don't want whatever. This would

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Speaker 2: be a very inconvenient car. But you could, through that methodology,

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Speaker 2: guarantee that the vehicles are being least charged with low

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Speaker 2: emission or zero mission electricity, but that this is the

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Speaker 2: polar opposite of a general utility useful vehicle. If I'm constrained,

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Speaker 2: but when I can fuel it, and of course as

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Speaker 2: a practical matter, what everybody does is they do average calculations.

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Speaker 2: They look at the average electric electricity, the average KILLO

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Speaker 2: of hour in the United States or in Europe, and say,

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Speaker 2: if you use the average killer of hour, then the

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Speaker 2: average emissions associated with the grid. Okay, in America, that

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Speaker 2: means on average two thirds of the electricity going to

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Speaker 2: like the cars and burning colon natural gas. Luckily, what

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Speaker 2: it is but two thirds and on average, so you're

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Speaker 2: you're burning colon natural gas. In Germany right now it's

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Speaker 2: more than two thirds because they've increased the coal burn

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Speaker 2: curtesy of mister Putin, and they burn up to natural

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Speaker 2: gas set at night. So these things are important. It's

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Speaker 2: disingenuous to say to zero missions, and it's I think

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Speaker 2: it's a little bit of a bait and switch, right

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Speaker 2: to tell consumers that you have a low mission vehicle,

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Speaker 2: but we're going to tell you when you're allowed to charge, right,

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Speaker 2: and never mind the obvious shade and troy that when

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Speaker 2: you know, within two days of Governor Knewsom saying he

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Speaker 2: was going to ban internal combustion engines, I think it

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Speaker 2: was two days later he had to tell people today, right,

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Speaker 2: a very time that they couldn't charge their electric cars

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Speaker 2: because there was a power shortage of the heat wave

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Speaker 2: in the summer. Well, okay, that's you know, that's Shade

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Speaker 2: and Cloyd. But but it's also a reality that storing

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Speaker 2: electricity and charging cars it's going to be much more

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Speaker 2: complicated than storing gasoline and tanks in the ground filling

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Speaker 2: up you know, look at the cars.

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Speaker 1: Well, yeah, difficult. And then when does you know, when

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Speaker 1: does the when does the insanity stop? I mean, when

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Speaker 1: do we stop and look at this and go, Okay,

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Speaker 1: we're predicting we're gonna do this by twenty thirty five.

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Speaker 1: We're gonna do this by twenty twenty five. We're gonna

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Speaker 1: you know. I asked an electric vehicle onder the other day.

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Speaker 1: I asked them, do you really think you're contributing to

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Speaker 1: a cleaner environment? They said absolutely. And my question to

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Speaker 1: them was where do you think the electricity comes from?

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Speaker 1: And she pointed to the wall. She says, it comes

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Speaker 1: out of that outlet. Yeah, but that has to come

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Speaker 1: from somewhere. Yeah, it comes from the electric company. They

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Speaker 1: don't think beyond.

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Speaker 2: I think I think there are there are a certain

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Speaker 2: constituency of people who don't think beyond the halfless person

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Speaker 2: you've talked to. And then there are people who do

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Speaker 2: think beyond it to say, oh, no, I'm promoting wind

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Speaker 2: and solar, and I'm going to make a choice to

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Speaker 2: buy more you know, wind powered electricity, you know, like

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Speaker 2: I have the option. So people who think beyond it

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Speaker 2: are saying those things. Okay, fair enough, Except my point

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Speaker 2: is that the bigger issue on the whole sort of

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Speaker 2: fuel cycle, the whole supply chain, is that we know

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Speaker 2: where gasol incomes from. Me you know, Joe oil, je

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Speaker 2: whole ground, get oil you're flying. We know a lot

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Speaker 2: about the environmental impacts of that, and we regulate them,

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Speaker 2: measure them, monitor them. You know with great precision what

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Speaker 2: those environmental costs are. But the battery. To make the battery,

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Speaker 2: we have to mine gigatons of rock around the planets

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Speaker 2: make all these batteries. And it's all over the place,

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Speaker 2: and we don't know exactly where. Sometimes it's in the

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Speaker 2: Democratic Republic of Congo. Now there's an oxymoron Toloyer title

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Speaker 2: for a country. It's in China, it's in Argentina and Chile,

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Speaker 2: some in my homeland Canada.

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Speaker 6: Mine stuff.

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Speaker 2: We don't mind stuff as much anymore in America because

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Speaker 2: we don't like mining, I guess. But the mining activities

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Speaker 2: are hidden, we don't think about them. But it's just

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Speaker 2: like a gasoline car. You have to drill stuff get oil.

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Speaker 2: To find it by a gasoline, you have to drill

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Speaker 2: and dig holes in the ground big machines. You take

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Speaker 2: the rocks crushing with big machines, rEFInd the rocks using

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Speaker 2: chemicals that dissolve the rocks to chemically separate the minerals.

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Speaker 2: Then you make a mineral compound, you know, lithium carbonate,

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Speaker 2: fumbliciated chemicals put in the battery. Then you make pure copper,

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Speaker 2: manganese and nickel. And do you assemble a halftime fuel

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Speaker 2: tank to make a battery with all the chemicals and

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Speaker 2: all the chemical activity.

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Speaker 1: And all that has to come from mining. And there's

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Speaker 1: a mining issue we're going to talk about when we

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Speaker 1: get back. I'm running Any of the Car Doctor here

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Speaker 1: with Mark Mills. Will both return right after this.

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Speaker 3: Don't go away.

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Speaker 4: Constraans like us, welcome.

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Speaker 1: Back, Running of the Car Doctor here with Mark Mills

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Speaker 1: in Manhattan Institute talking to evs this hour. Mark, So

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Speaker 1: you know we were talking about how the batteries get made,

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Speaker 1: and you know, the mining operations and where the materials

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Speaker 1: come from and the hours and how much rock and

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Speaker 1: so on and so forth. But there's something else to

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Speaker 1: the mining issue. The New York Times ran an article

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Speaker 1: June of this year that talked about the fact that

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Speaker 1: a lot of the minds, well they're not here, right

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Speaker 1: because you can't you can't set up these minds here

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Speaker 1: in America, so you know, for regulations and protection to

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Speaker 1: the environment, as I understand that, correct me if I'm wrong.

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Speaker 1: And a lot of them, a lot of the minds

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Speaker 1: are everywhere else, and they're in some not so nice

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Speaker 1: places in the way that they recruit their their workers, right, yeah, and.

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Speaker 2: This so there's yeah, you're absolutely right. There's three three problems.

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Speaker 2: But they begin with the simple fact that the United

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Speaker 2: States depends on imports for one hundred percent of about

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Speaker 2: a dozen key minerals, and we import more than half

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Speaker 2: of another dozen or so sore. We are big importers already.

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Speaker 2: And of the refined metals and minerals that were refined

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Speaker 2: in a form useful for batteries are frankly useful for

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Speaker 2: solar power. But let's just talk a look like the cars.

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Speaker 2: The refining of these metals and minerals is utterly dominated

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Speaker 2: by chi Signa's got a marketplace dominance, and they're finding

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Speaker 2: battery metals and materials that's roughly double opex dominance in

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Speaker 2: oil markets. So that's sort of a non trivial geopolitical issue.

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Speaker 2: I would just say one can have different opinions about

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Speaker 2: importing stuff, but building battery factors here doesn't change the

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Speaker 2: fact that we're importing the materials can make the batteries

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Speaker 2: from which is this administration has tried to stay they're

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Speaker 2: than a fixed step by dividing incentives for the US

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Speaker 2: to do more of this. Let's assume the incentives work,

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Speaker 2: and they might over time, but we have to change

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Speaker 2: regulations to your point to make it easier open minds.

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Speaker 2: This illustration has done the opposite. In fact, this year

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Speaker 2: they've canceled permits for three new minds Nickel and copper

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Speaker 2: minds in the United States that have already gone through

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Speaker 2: permitting process and we're preparing to expand or open they

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Speaker 2: just cancel them out right. At the same time that

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Speaker 2: we're going to demand that there are more electric vehicles,

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Speaker 2: which require more exactly the same metals, and these are

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Speaker 2: common metals, by the way, we're not talking about exotic stuff.

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Speaker 2: Then then you have the other problem you put your

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Speaker 2: finger on is we'll call it transparency or equivalency of

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Speaker 2: in book Environmental and Labor Law behaviors, I mean the

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Speaker 2: New York Times, Washington Post, New Yorker, I mean a

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Speaker 2: lot of we'll call them normally liberal politically liberal outlets

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Speaker 2: have This is not I'm saying it's because it's not

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Speaker 2: a political issue. The fact that that minds in other

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Speaker 2: countries don't follow our labor laws or procedures and in

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Speaker 2: fact call bought. Minds in the Democratic Republic of Congo

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Speaker 2: notoriously used child labor. In fact, some estimates, according to

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Speaker 2: the Yulan some estimates, a third of the labor quorded,

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Speaker 2: a third of the labor, some children mining by hand,

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Speaker 2: carrying around, you know, locks and stuff. In mind this

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Speaker 2: is you know, we would find that repugnant here. Most

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Speaker 2: people would and what they learned about and say, well,

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Speaker 2: let's not use nick cop cobalts and you can you

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Speaker 2: can't make batteries with little of no cobalt, and instead

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Speaker 2: you have to use other metals. Well, you know, like

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Speaker 2: nickel or other other metals, but you always have to

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Speaker 2: use lissium. And every one of these cases, you're in

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Speaker 2: countries where we have minimal control or none, and maybe

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Speaker 2: more importantly, they have very little visibility of what's really

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Speaker 2: going on. Sometimes, you know, reporters will go and find

434
00:22:24,160 --> 00:22:28,159
Speaker 2: out and the lack shocked. But it's, you know, it's

435
00:22:29,480 --> 00:22:31,399
Speaker 2: what can we say, it's it's it's profound me not

436
00:22:31,520 --> 00:22:34,600
Speaker 2: to naive to think that if we discover we don't

437
00:22:34,720 --> 00:22:37,880
Speaker 2: like that, that we could change those facts in time

438
00:22:37,920 --> 00:22:40,560
Speaker 2: frames that are meaningful. It will take a decade to

439
00:22:40,680 --> 00:22:43,480
Speaker 2: two decades to open sufficient amount of new mining and

440
00:22:43,520 --> 00:22:47,840
Speaker 2: refining capacity in the United States to replace what we're

441
00:22:47,880 --> 00:22:51,920
Speaker 2: going to be importing to build the kinds of battery

442
00:22:52,040 --> 00:22:55,280
Speaker 2: factories that are now being imagined. So we're rushing to

443
00:22:55,320 --> 00:23:00,000
Speaker 2: fund huge battery factories that will import billions of dollars

444
00:23:00,040 --> 00:23:03,600
Speaker 2: some materials and export jobs to make those materials, and

445
00:23:04,000 --> 00:23:07,480
Speaker 2: if we're concerned about the environment, export the environmental challenges

446
00:23:07,560 --> 00:23:09,280
Speaker 2: associated with getting those materials.

447
00:23:09,640 --> 00:23:14,920
Speaker 1: So where what you're telling us is where we're becoming

448
00:23:15,440 --> 00:23:20,479
Speaker 1: more energy dependent on a foreign nation all over again.

449
00:23:20,800 --> 00:23:23,200
Speaker 1: We're not instead of it being in the Middle in,

450
00:23:23,200 --> 00:23:24,760
Speaker 1: in the Middle in in you know, in the Middle

451
00:23:24,800 --> 00:23:27,200
Speaker 1: East and Saudi Arabia and so forth. We're now going

452
00:23:27,200 --> 00:23:30,560
Speaker 1: to China. China is going to hold our energy strings,

453
00:23:30,640 --> 00:23:31,200
Speaker 1: so to speak.

454
00:23:32,560 --> 00:23:34,919
Speaker 2: That's well, that's exactly right. So we have we have,

455
00:23:35,840 --> 00:23:38,359
Speaker 2: even though there's been a lot of rhetoric about the

456
00:23:38,560 --> 00:23:42,320
Speaker 2: self declared obsession of this administration to you know, get

457
00:23:42,400 --> 00:23:44,919
Speaker 2: rid of American oil and gas production, we still produce

458
00:23:45,560 --> 00:23:47,960
Speaker 2: the largest share of the world's oil and gas, and

459
00:23:48,000 --> 00:23:50,640
Speaker 2: we stole our big producer will lessonly we're pre lockdown.

460
00:23:50,720 --> 00:23:53,320
Speaker 2: We're still the big the big Kahuna, and we could

461
00:23:53,359 --> 00:23:56,800
Speaker 2: be much bigger. And we export oil and natural gas

462
00:23:56,800 --> 00:24:00,119
Speaker 2: and refined products. But yes, on the battery mineral stuf,

463
00:24:00,200 --> 00:24:02,239
Speaker 2: where a net importer will be, we will be for

464
00:24:02,280 --> 00:24:05,080
Speaker 2: a long time. And China made a very deliberate decision,

465
00:24:05,080 --> 00:24:07,320
Speaker 2: it wasn't done secret for the last couple of decades

466
00:24:07,760 --> 00:24:13,320
Speaker 2: to become the opek of battery minerals. And they succeeded. No,

467
00:24:13,520 --> 00:24:15,320
Speaker 2: you know, from their perspective, us a pretty good trade

468
00:24:15,320 --> 00:24:17,960
Speaker 2: because they're very dependent on imports of natural gas and

469
00:24:18,000 --> 00:24:20,720
Speaker 2: gasoline and oil, and that will be for a long time.

470
00:24:21,080 --> 00:24:24,480
Speaker 2: It turns out here's the really It turns out it's

471
00:24:24,480 --> 00:24:28,040
Speaker 2: obviously a lot harder to produce sufficient qualities of oil

472
00:24:28,040 --> 00:24:30,880
Speaker 2: and natural gas, and it is to produce pascistic qualities

473
00:24:30,920 --> 00:24:34,320
Speaker 2: of minerals to make batteries, because they've chosen the easier task.

474
00:24:34,960 --> 00:24:37,199
Speaker 2: But we've made it hard here by virtue of the

475
00:24:37,240 --> 00:24:38,800
Speaker 2: regulatory environment that exists.

476
00:24:39,000 --> 00:24:43,119
Speaker 1: So are are we America, the United States? Are we

477
00:24:43,240 --> 00:24:45,520
Speaker 1: the ones making the big push for evs? And the

478
00:24:45,520 --> 00:24:48,240
Speaker 1: rest of the world is kind of watching? I mean,

479
00:24:48,600 --> 00:24:50,760
Speaker 1: is the same amount of effort being applied in Europe

480
00:24:50,800 --> 00:24:53,679
Speaker 1: and China, you know, around the world, or you know

481
00:24:53,720 --> 00:24:55,440
Speaker 1: who's the leader in the EV attempt?

482
00:24:57,119 --> 00:25:01,960
Speaker 2: Well, we're not the first where Look, I think there's

483
00:25:01,960 --> 00:25:06,040
Speaker 2: now ten countries, Germany and France, and you know, a

484
00:25:06,040 --> 00:25:08,239
Speaker 2: bunch of others have proclaimed that they're going to ban

485
00:25:08,359 --> 00:25:12,040
Speaker 2: the sale of internal combustion engines by twenty thirty or

486
00:25:12,040 --> 00:25:14,840
Speaker 2: twenty thirty five or some date. China's not doing that,

487
00:25:14,880 --> 00:25:18,280
Speaker 2: by the way. China's doing quite the opposite. They're increasing

488
00:25:18,280 --> 00:25:21,000
Speaker 2: the use of regular cars and evs or increasing the

489
00:25:21,119 --> 00:25:24,960
Speaker 2: use of call they're doing everything. Basically, they're using both

490
00:25:24,960 --> 00:25:28,280
Speaker 2: for transportation and for energy production. That all that, it's

491
00:25:28,400 --> 00:25:31,840
Speaker 2: all the above. They're doing everything, so we're not alone

492
00:25:31,920 --> 00:25:35,320
Speaker 2: in the pursuit of the manium. But I guess, I

493
00:25:35,359 --> 00:25:37,320
Speaker 2: guess that's what area we could be a leader in

494
00:25:37,359 --> 00:25:39,760
Speaker 2: if you wanted to be a leader or something like that.

495
00:25:40,119 --> 00:25:43,600
Speaker 2: But it won't end well because it's not going to

496
00:25:43,720 --> 00:25:46,119
Speaker 2: lead to all the cars being convertiable and lead to

497
00:25:46,320 --> 00:25:50,480
Speaker 2: very expensive automobiles and very expensive used cars because people

498
00:25:50,480 --> 00:25:54,080
Speaker 2: will be stuck when they're used cars and very expensive maintenance.

499
00:25:54,080 --> 00:25:57,359
Speaker 2: You won't have the option of switching out because if

500
00:25:57,359 --> 00:25:59,840
Speaker 2: we ban the sale of an internal combustion engine, you'll

501
00:25:59,840 --> 00:26:01,440
Speaker 2: have to keep it all for a long time.

502
00:26:01,680 --> 00:26:04,760
Speaker 1: Right, tell you what, Mark, let's pull over. When we

503
00:26:04,760 --> 00:26:07,520
Speaker 1: come back, I want to talk about well charging stations.

504
00:26:07,520 --> 00:26:10,359
Speaker 1: I read a recent article about the security concerns for

505
00:26:10,480 --> 00:26:13,879
Speaker 1: women at charging stations. If you have some thoughts on that,

506
00:26:13,920 --> 00:26:16,159
Speaker 1: I'd like you to speak to that, and just in general,

507
00:26:16,440 --> 00:26:18,920
Speaker 1: you know the future of charging stations where we are

508
00:26:18,960 --> 00:26:20,640
Speaker 1: now and where you think we'll be in five years

509
00:26:20,640 --> 00:26:23,639
Speaker 1: in terms of how fast and how much and accessibility.

510
00:26:23,720 --> 00:26:25,399
Speaker 1: So sit tight. We're here with Mark Mills of the

511
00:26:25,400 --> 00:26:28,040
Speaker 1: Manhattan Institute talking EV's I'm ronning Ny and the Car Doctor.

512
00:26:28,119 --> 00:26:36,680
Speaker 1: We'll both be back right after this. Don't go away,

513
00:26:42,960 --> 00:26:45,240
Speaker 1: welcome back. It's an electric hour here on the Car Doctor.

514
00:26:45,240 --> 00:26:48,200
Speaker 1: We're talking EV's with Mark Mills of the Manhattan Institute. Mark,

515
00:26:48,760 --> 00:26:53,199
Speaker 1: you know, yeah, elect an electrified hour. There you go,

516
00:26:54,720 --> 00:26:57,480
Speaker 1: you know, And we could talk about EV's for there's

517
00:26:57,480 --> 00:27:00,520
Speaker 1: just so many angles and so many things to discuss.

518
00:27:00,640 --> 00:27:03,840
Speaker 1: But I want to hit the point of charging stations.

519
00:27:03,880 --> 00:27:05,840
Speaker 1: You testified this year in front of Congress. They had

520
00:27:05,880 --> 00:27:08,639
Speaker 1: asked you some questions about charging station issues, and you know,

521
00:27:08,720 --> 00:27:10,600
Speaker 1: out in the out in the sticks as we as

522
00:27:10,640 --> 00:27:13,399
Speaker 1: we refer to it sometimes in remote areas, you know.

523
00:27:13,440 --> 00:27:15,680
Speaker 1: But now there's an obvious there's a safety and security

524
00:27:16,119 --> 00:27:19,679
Speaker 1: concerned charging stations for women. Now that's starting to you know,

525
00:27:19,840 --> 00:27:22,680
Speaker 1: poke its head up. And you know, obviously a woman

526
00:27:22,720 --> 00:27:25,560
Speaker 1: pulls into a charging place eleven o'clock at night, she

527
00:27:25,600 --> 00:27:27,639
Speaker 1: has to sit there how long to charge that vehicle?

528
00:27:27,840 --> 00:27:30,080
Speaker 1: On average? Half hour forty minutes?

529
00:27:30,600 --> 00:27:34,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, half hour forty minutes. So this is the essence

530
00:27:35,000 --> 00:27:37,199
Speaker 2: of the challenge with the current technology. It's not like

531
00:27:37,280 --> 00:27:40,359
Speaker 2: we can't find something magical someday in the future, but

532
00:27:40,880 --> 00:27:42,640
Speaker 2: the reality is we're going to be building and selling

533
00:27:42,640 --> 00:27:44,680
Speaker 2: what we know how to build today. So that is,

534
00:27:44,800 --> 00:27:47,040
Speaker 2: you know, if you charge your car at home in

535
00:27:47,080 --> 00:27:49,879
Speaker 2: your garage, which is perfectly fine for people with garages

536
00:27:50,240 --> 00:27:52,720
Speaker 2: just a big piece of population, it's just not the majority.

537
00:27:53,680 --> 00:27:56,159
Speaker 2: It charges overnight on a regular two twenty outlet. You know,

538
00:27:56,200 --> 00:27:58,080
Speaker 2: six to eight hours, depends on the car and the

539
00:27:58,080 --> 00:28:00,679
Speaker 2: battery size, that kind of thing. Maybe ten hours sometimes

540
00:28:01,040 --> 00:28:04,040
Speaker 2: let's just say six hours. The superchargers, which we hear

541
00:28:04,040 --> 00:28:06,159
Speaker 2: a lot about with what you put at a filling

542
00:28:06,200 --> 00:28:08,760
Speaker 2: station because you can't sit there for six hours, are

543
00:28:08,800 --> 00:28:12,800
Speaker 2: extremely high volved. It's very powerful. You know, three hundred

544
00:28:12,840 --> 00:28:14,879
Speaker 2: thousand volts, four hundreds of volt summer six or eight

545
00:28:14,960 --> 00:28:18,280
Speaker 2: hundred thousand volt chargers, and they can charge the battery

546
00:28:18,359 --> 00:28:21,520
Speaker 2: faster thirty or forty minutes. But as you know, as

547
00:28:21,600 --> 00:28:25,159
Speaker 2: anybody who's got to a gasoline station knows, get your

548
00:28:25,200 --> 00:28:27,080
Speaker 2: watch out and time how long it takes to fill

549
00:28:27,080 --> 00:28:29,520
Speaker 2: your gas tank up. If you know you're not driving

550
00:28:30,240 --> 00:28:33,000
Speaker 2: a tandem double, you know, every one fifty, but you

551
00:28:33,040 --> 00:28:35,080
Speaker 2: know it's five minutes, four minutes still a gassing tank

552
00:28:35,160 --> 00:28:39,400
Speaker 2: up right beginning to end, and six minutes maybe, so

553
00:28:39,440 --> 00:28:42,120
Speaker 2: you're not talking about nearly a tenfold increase. You're there

554
00:28:42,120 --> 00:28:45,920
Speaker 2: for half an hour. That has a set of implications

555
00:28:45,960 --> 00:28:51,120
Speaker 2: which are pretty important. Non trivial. Are the hazards or

556
00:28:51,200 --> 00:28:54,760
Speaker 2: risks associated with people by themselves standing there for half

557
00:28:54,800 --> 00:28:56,320
Speaker 2: an hour and augh of five minutes you're you know,

558
00:28:56,360 --> 00:28:59,200
Speaker 2: you've become a target. This has already become an issue.

559
00:29:00,240 --> 00:29:01,600
Speaker 2: I guess they got to make sure you go to

560
00:29:01,680 --> 00:29:03,520
Speaker 2: an ed fielding station with there's lots of people in

561
00:29:03,600 --> 00:29:07,920
Speaker 2: regards of security. I don't know, but that's that's an

562
00:29:08,000 --> 00:29:12,760
Speaker 2: important social safety issue. The other problem, though, that's ignored,

563
00:29:12,880 --> 00:29:17,080
Speaker 2: is you know, in economic parlance, when people use the

564
00:29:17,120 --> 00:29:20,360
Speaker 2: word utility function, you know that just this fancy way

565
00:29:20,400 --> 00:29:23,640
Speaker 2: of saying convenient. Right, you want the same convenience, the

566
00:29:23,640 --> 00:29:26,000
Speaker 2: same utility function. When you go to a gasing station.

567
00:29:27,040 --> 00:29:28,720
Speaker 2: You generally don't have to wait a long time. You're

568
00:29:28,720 --> 00:29:32,400
Speaker 2: not in the long lines, typically absent episodic you know crises,

569
00:29:33,320 --> 00:29:35,280
Speaker 2: you know, evacuations and stuff. You don't wait that long.

570
00:29:35,360 --> 00:29:37,840
Speaker 2: There's a long as you might wait typically a few

571
00:29:37,840 --> 00:29:40,400
Speaker 2: minutes if at all, because there's enough gas pumps. Each

572
00:29:40,440 --> 00:29:43,440
Speaker 2: person takes four or five minutes, they're gone. If you've

573
00:29:43,440 --> 00:29:46,440
Speaker 2: got each person taking thirty minutes. You can do the

574
00:29:46,480 --> 00:29:49,560
Speaker 2: math here, it's not complicated. You need, let's say six

575
00:29:49,640 --> 00:29:52,560
Speaker 2: or seven times more pumps like the pumps in this case,

576
00:29:52,600 --> 00:29:55,640
Speaker 2: then you had gasling pumps to have the same convenience

577
00:29:55,640 --> 00:29:59,320
Speaker 2: to everybody at the same peak times. So now I've

578
00:29:59,360 --> 00:30:02,680
Speaker 2: got the know gasoline stations that have enough room for

579
00:30:02,840 --> 00:30:07,440
Speaker 2: six times the quantity of pumping locations pretty much impossible

580
00:30:07,480 --> 00:30:11,080
Speaker 2: in urban areas. Maybe farm country, sure it can do that,

581
00:30:11,320 --> 00:30:15,280
Speaker 2: but it takes land, takes space, And each supercharger costs

582
00:30:15,320 --> 00:30:18,120
Speaker 2: two to three times more than the capital costs of

583
00:30:18,120 --> 00:30:21,320
Speaker 2: a gasoline pump. And these you know, electrically driven mechanical pumps,

584
00:30:21,720 --> 00:30:25,840
Speaker 2: So you're now doing a capital expense mature at somebody's expense.

585
00:30:26,240 --> 00:30:28,960
Speaker 2: That's not just six times more, it's twelve times more.

586
00:30:29,240 --> 00:30:29,360
Speaker 6: Right.

587
00:30:29,880 --> 00:30:32,240
Speaker 2: And on top of that, what I'm putting in each

588
00:30:32,280 --> 00:30:35,600
Speaker 2: of those superchargers is you know, half a mega lot

589
00:30:35,600 --> 00:30:39,560
Speaker 2: of power. It's astonishing amount of power, you know. Then

590
00:30:40,360 --> 00:30:42,640
Speaker 2: I put two dozen of those in one in one

591
00:30:42,760 --> 00:30:45,840
Speaker 2: location like a mini steel mill worth of electric demand.

592
00:30:46,160 --> 00:30:49,600
Speaker 2: That requires a massive, expensive upgrade to the local electric

593
00:30:49,680 --> 00:30:52,840
Speaker 2: utility distribution loop, which you know, somebody's going to pay

594
00:30:52,880 --> 00:30:55,840
Speaker 2: for that rate payers, somebody, somebody's gonna pay for it.

595
00:30:55,880 --> 00:30:57,760
Speaker 1: And if I put that charging if I put that

596
00:30:57,880 --> 00:30:59,960
Speaker 1: charging station out in a remote part of the country,

597
00:31:00,600 --> 00:31:02,680
Speaker 1: I now have to get that electricity to that remote

598
00:31:02,720 --> 00:31:04,560
Speaker 1: part of the country because that's where the land is

599
00:31:04,560 --> 00:31:06,080
Speaker 1: for the charging station to exist.

600
00:31:06,800 --> 00:31:10,560
Speaker 2: Sure, I mean it's again, all these things are not

601
00:31:10,920 --> 00:31:14,440
Speaker 2: impossible to do. They just cost money and take time,

602
00:31:14,920 --> 00:31:18,680
Speaker 2: and they don't add they don't add any convenience that

603
00:31:18,680 --> 00:31:22,000
Speaker 2: actually are taking convenience away. My point in my testimony

604
00:31:22,040 --> 00:31:24,680
Speaker 2: before the House was they were talking about trying to

605
00:31:24,800 --> 00:31:28,760
Speaker 2: electrify rural transportation, and my observation was the obvious, Well,

606
00:31:29,120 --> 00:31:33,960
Speaker 2: they have the land there for huge refueling stations, but

607
00:31:34,120 --> 00:31:36,120
Speaker 2: to your point, you have long distances, you have to

608
00:31:36,160 --> 00:31:41,520
Speaker 2: upgrade all the transmission distribution systems. And again, you know

609
00:31:41,520 --> 00:31:43,480
Speaker 2: you're going to go to town, you're live in a

610
00:31:44,720 --> 00:31:47,640
Speaker 2: rural area, and you've got to charge up if you're

611
00:31:47,640 --> 00:31:49,840
Speaker 2: going to be waiting a half an hour, not five minutes,

612
00:31:50,240 --> 00:31:55,360
Speaker 2: to refuel your vehicle. Now, there are some promising developments

613
00:31:55,360 --> 00:31:58,200
Speaker 2: where you can imagine charging even faster, maybe getting it

614
00:31:58,240 --> 00:31:59,160
Speaker 2: down at fifteen minutes.

615
00:31:59,240 --> 00:32:02,160
Speaker 1: I'll tell you hold that thought. Mark, let me pull

616
00:32:02,160 --> 00:32:03,719
Speaker 1: over take this pause. When you come back, I'll let

617
00:32:03,720 --> 00:32:05,880
Speaker 1: you do that for the wrap up and get ready.

618
00:32:05,920 --> 00:32:07,440
Speaker 1: I want to give a shameless plug for your book

619
00:32:07,440 --> 00:32:09,160
Speaker 1: when we come back to as well. I'm just warning

620
00:32:09,160 --> 00:32:11,200
Speaker 1: you so that you know get your thoughts in order.

621
00:32:11,240 --> 00:32:12,680
Speaker 1: We'll have a couple of minutes. I'm running Any of

622
00:32:12,720 --> 00:32:14,560
Speaker 1: the Car Doctor here with Mark Mills. Will both return

623
00:32:14,640 --> 00:32:29,840
Speaker 1: right after this. Don't go away. Hey, we're back running

624
00:32:29,840 --> 00:32:31,320
Speaker 1: Any of the Car Doctor with Mark Mills of the

625
00:32:31,320 --> 00:32:33,400
Speaker 1: Manhattan Institute. Mark, let me lay it on you like

626
00:32:33,440 --> 00:32:35,720
Speaker 1: this and in a minute and a half or less,

627
00:32:35,760 --> 00:32:38,000
Speaker 1: I'll make it as crazy as in all ev future?

628
00:32:39,040 --> 00:32:42,040
Speaker 1: Is there a bright spot in the road ahead and

629
00:32:42,080 --> 00:32:44,040
Speaker 1: it's not an EV on fire? Is there is there

630
00:32:44,120 --> 00:32:46,080
Speaker 1: hope for any of this that this will actually work?

631
00:32:48,400 --> 00:32:50,160
Speaker 2: It'll work. It's just we're not going to have as

632
00:32:50,160 --> 00:32:51,920
Speaker 2: many evs as people think they'll be. On their own.

633
00:32:51,960 --> 00:32:54,720
Speaker 2: There'll be lots hundred million, two undred million in the world,

634
00:32:55,040 --> 00:32:57,160
Speaker 2: and we've only got fourteen or fifteen million today. It's

635
00:32:57,160 --> 00:32:59,080
Speaker 2: a big deal. It's a lot. It's in a billion

636
00:32:59,160 --> 00:33:02,200
Speaker 2: five vehicles in the world, so it's you know, it's

637
00:33:02,200 --> 00:33:03,880
Speaker 2: not going to change the world. It's going to be

638
00:33:03,920 --> 00:33:06,680
Speaker 2: exciting and probably the winner in the end. You know,

639
00:33:06,760 --> 00:33:09,480
Speaker 2: it's probably going to still be Elon Musk because he's

640
00:33:09,560 --> 00:33:11,760
Speaker 2: locked up the supply chains. Will everybody else has been

641
00:33:12,000 --> 00:33:15,000
Speaker 2: gathering around. It's very smart, good for him, right, And.

642
00:33:15,480 --> 00:33:17,760
Speaker 1: Even if all the even if all the world were electric,

643
00:33:17,800 --> 00:33:21,160
Speaker 1: we still have all those other issues to really deal with.

644
00:33:21,240 --> 00:33:23,200
Speaker 1: So let's talk.

645
00:33:23,280 --> 00:33:25,840
Speaker 2: Well, if the world got five hundred million EV's, it

646
00:33:25,840 --> 00:33:29,080
Speaker 2: would only eliminate ten percent of worlds oil demands.

647
00:33:29,200 --> 00:33:32,320
Speaker 1: There you go, right, and with that, we'd still have

648
00:33:32,360 --> 00:33:36,200
Speaker 1: the carbon dioxide, the greenhouse gas emissions issue. So the

649
00:33:36,200 --> 00:33:38,960
Speaker 1: insanity continues. Tell us about the book, real quick mark

650
00:33:39,000 --> 00:33:39,880
Speaker 1: the Cloud Revolution?

651
00:33:40,200 --> 00:33:40,400
Speaker 6: Right?

652
00:33:41,200 --> 00:33:43,440
Speaker 1: You wrote this? This book is it talks about the

653
00:33:43,440 --> 00:33:47,040
Speaker 1: convergence of technologies over the next ten or fifteen years.

654
00:33:47,080 --> 00:33:49,320
Speaker 1: And the book sales going, well.

655
00:33:50,280 --> 00:33:52,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, they're going, well, you know it's there's tough about

656
00:33:52,640 --> 00:33:55,920
Speaker 2: EV's in that, But I'm much more interested in things

657
00:33:56,000 --> 00:34:00,680
Speaker 2: like advanced materials for biocomputing and our healthcare medical diagnostics,

658
00:34:00,720 --> 00:34:02,880
Speaker 2: about the clouds, why it's called the cloud revolution, and

659
00:34:03,360 --> 00:34:07,320
Speaker 2: the advance of software and AI for manufacturing processes, and

660
00:34:07,720 --> 00:34:09,840
Speaker 2: maybe the part of the book I enjoyed writing the

661
00:34:09,840 --> 00:34:14,880
Speaker 2: most is about robots, the advantage, true robot mobility, aphomorphic robots.

662
00:34:15,040 --> 00:34:17,840
Speaker 2: Even Elon Musk got blessing. He is entering afraid to

663
00:34:17,920 --> 00:34:20,399
Speaker 2: make robots that will be assistance for human beings. And

664
00:34:20,680 --> 00:34:22,600
Speaker 2: as he pointed out and I wrote in my book,

665
00:34:22,800 --> 00:34:25,839
Speaker 2: these are amplifiers for human labor and human wealth and

666
00:34:25,840 --> 00:34:30,680
Speaker 2: well being. It's exciting. My book's very optimistic. I'm stubbornly optimistic.

667
00:34:30,719 --> 00:34:34,480
Speaker 2: We'll get through a political travails and we'll bloom again.

668
00:34:34,840 --> 00:34:37,759
Speaker 2: The subtitle is The Roaring twenty twenties, and I still

669
00:34:37,840 --> 00:34:39,640
Speaker 2: mean it just could be taken up a year or

670
00:34:39,680 --> 00:34:40,640
Speaker 2: two to get rolling right.

671
00:34:40,680 --> 00:34:42,000
Speaker 1: It's just going to be a well on the books

672
00:34:42,000 --> 00:34:46,080
Speaker 1: available will Amazon and Barnes and Noble correct all the

673
00:34:46,160 --> 00:34:48,879
Speaker 1: user plays, Yeah, I gotcha, Hey, Mark, Thank you very much.

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00:34:48,920 --> 00:34:49,080
Speaker 6: Man.

675
00:34:49,120 --> 00:34:51,880
Speaker 1: I always appreciate you spending so much time. You're very generous,

676
00:34:52,239 --> 00:34:54,520
Speaker 1: and you have yourself a good holiday season. Are best

677
00:34:54,560 --> 00:34:56,600
Speaker 1: to you and yours, and we'll talk to you again

678
00:34:56,600 --> 00:34:58,719
Speaker 1: in the new year, and we'll kind of take it

679
00:34:58,719 --> 00:34:59,880
Speaker 1: from there. I'm r on an any in the car.

680
00:35:00,520 --> 00:35:03,520
Speaker 1: I wish all of you a good Turkey Day weekend.

681
00:35:03,800 --> 00:35:06,480
Speaker 1: If that's possible recover. We got work next week. Until then,

682
00:35:06,600 --> 00:35:20,520
Speaker 1: good mechanics aren't expensive, they're priceless. See you