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Speaker 1: At UFC two fifty nine.

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Speaker 2: One gentleman is looking to become the first ever undefeated

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Speaker 2: champ champ. The other one is looking to not really

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Speaker 2: defend his title, but get the long away to respect

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Speaker 2: that maybe he's been due all this time. Hello everyone,

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Speaker 2: my name is Luke Thomas, and welcome to our resume

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Speaker 2: review of sorts for the Gentleman aforementioned when I set

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Speaker 2: this all up two fifty nine.

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Speaker 1: Great fight no matter who wins.

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Speaker 2: But there is one guy, Israel Desanya. He is the

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Speaker 2: only one of the two participants looking to get two titles,

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Speaker 2: or at least at his second one anyway, and he

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Speaker 2: is doing it from a position where if he does it,

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Speaker 2: he only becomes the fifth in company history to hold

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Speaker 2: two titles simultaneously, but he would be the first one

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Speaker 2: to be undefeated.

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Speaker 1: Pretty interesting.

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Speaker 2: To help us talk about how he got to this

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Speaker 2: position is a man you know quite well. He is

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Speaker 2: my co host on Morning Combat. We are both from

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Speaker 2: CBS Sports. He is down in the rich port known

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Speaker 2: as Puerto Rico. It's Brian Campbell. Hi, Brian, how are you?

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Speaker 1: Yeah?

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Speaker 3: From San Juan with love here. Thank you.

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Speaker 4: We've been able to figure out the technology to make

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Speaker 4: this work despite me flying all the way here.

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Speaker 3: Without my laptop.

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Speaker 4: But Luke, we will not talk about that because I

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Speaker 4: have had to make a blood pack that I will

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Speaker 4: not linger for more than an hour on all things Adestinya.

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Speaker 4: So can we get down to brass tax air brother?

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Speaker 1: All right?

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Speaker 2: So, as everyone knows UFC two fifty nine, it'll be

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Speaker 2: the first fight for Autasanya in twenty twenty one. But

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Speaker 2: let's rewind. We did this with Connor McGregor BC, but

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Speaker 2: now I want to do it with Atasanya. He takes

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Speaker 2: on Yan Belhovich. Now, Yan has had a much longer

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Speaker 2: tenure in UFC and frankly not as altogether distinguished, losing

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Speaker 2: four of his first six UFC fights. But what makes

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Speaker 2: Autasanya so interesting, b see is that he is undefeated,

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Speaker 2: not merely in UFC but in MMA more generally. Do

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Speaker 2: you recall the first time as a MM reporter that adasanyas.

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Speaker 1: Your path so to speak?

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Speaker 2: Not maybe literally could be that as well, but the

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Speaker 2: first time you heard of him in a memorable way?

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Speaker 1: Or was it the first fight with Wilkinson. We'll we're

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Speaker 1: talking about just a second one.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, look, we're talking about a guy who's

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Speaker 4: only been in the UFC for three years, and this

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Speaker 4: has been as ridiculously impactful a three year run, more

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Speaker 4: critically than commercially.

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Speaker 3: Although he's catching up fast on there.

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Speaker 4: And I think it was that Wilkinson fight where you

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Speaker 4: heard people saying, oh, this is that badass kickboxer. There

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Speaker 4: may be the kind of big, long term potential people

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Speaker 4: weren't talking about, you know, a John Jones level, whereas

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Speaker 4: you know John Jones first couple of UFC fights, you

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Speaker 4: are already getting people going. Man, it's early, but I

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Speaker 4: feel like this could really be the guy. This was

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Speaker 4: more of just an interest in somebody coming from another

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Speaker 4: you know, realm of the combat game and having that

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Speaker 4: kind of potential to be to be a star that

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Speaker 4: will That Wilkinson fight, which we'll get into with certainly

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Speaker 4: a hell of a hello.

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Speaker 3: But I did not follow his glory run.

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Speaker 4: I had not heard of him until the buzz ahead

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Speaker 4: of that debut where I remember a specific him being

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Speaker 4: a betting favorite.

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Speaker 2: Now his debut came in the eleventh of February twenty eighteen.

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Speaker 2: By the way, the point you alluded to, I think

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Speaker 2: it's quite interesting if you look at his level of activity.

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Speaker 2: He had four fights in his calendar year inside twenty eighteen.

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Speaker 2: He had three in twenty nineteen, only two in twenty twenty.

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Speaker 2: What's an interesting observation I believe heading into Saturday is

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Speaker 2: that you're watching ada Soignya's workloads slowly taper as he

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Speaker 2: gets higher and higher up.

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Speaker 1: The game, which only makes sense.

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Speaker 2: You can only do so much at the highest level

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Speaker 2: in terms of activity once you get to the championship level.

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Speaker 2: And by the way, six of those fights took place

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Speaker 2: in a full on calendar year, so from February to February.

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Speaker 1: Be that as it may.

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Speaker 2: Let's talk about that Wilkinson debut, because what was interesting

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Speaker 2: about attasnya BC is that my recollection is I even

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Speaker 2: worked for Glory. I think I got out just before

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Speaker 2: Adasignia got there. And what's interesting is he did not

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Speaker 2: necessarily have the pedigree of a champion. It wasn't like

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Speaker 2: a guy who would held the Glory title, although there's

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Speaker 2: some dispute about maybe he should have depending on how

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Speaker 2: the fights have gone. But he didn't have the ADCC champion,

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Speaker 2: the kickboxing champion. But the hardcorese kind of told us

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Speaker 2: that this was a guy to pay attention to. And

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Speaker 2: what I remember from that fight was he looked good

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Speaker 2: on the feet, he stuffed the take downs.

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Speaker 1: When it went.

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Speaker 2: Downhill for Wilkinson, it went downhill quickly. But the thing

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Speaker 2: I really recall was afterwards on the mic with John

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Speaker 2: Annick in the show in Perth, Australia and saying, I'm

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Speaker 2: the new dog in the yard. I know all of

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Speaker 2: you are looking at my Instagram. You know exactly who

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Speaker 2: I am really being confident in calling out basically everybody.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, basically saying you know I'm the new dog in

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Speaker 4: the yard. And I just pissed all over this octagon.

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Speaker 4: Look it was February eleventh.

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Speaker 3: Twenty eighteen, UFC two to twenty one from Perth.

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Speaker 4: If I didn't have the buzz coming in besides knowing

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Speaker 4: him as that kickboxer guy who could be flashy and good,

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Speaker 4: am I wrong in hindsight in which I did go

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Speaker 4: ahead of this this video? Go back and rewatch this

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Speaker 4: Rob Wilkinson fight. This looked a lot more than like

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Speaker 4: Anderson Silva versus Rich Franklin or Anderson Silva versus Chris

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Speaker 4: Lebin than I remember now wasn't as quick as the Liban,

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Speaker 4: but in terms of just one one fighter coming in

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Speaker 4: and just kicking the shit out of the other fighter

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Speaker 4: in such an impactful way. Maybe John Jones Mauricio Hua

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Speaker 4: is another considerable you know examination there, even though that

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Speaker 4: was obviously.

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Speaker 3: For a title, but I mean it was one sided.

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Speaker 3: It was brutal.

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Speaker 4: Yes, Wilkinson gave Adostini some of the necessary challenges that

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Speaker 4: you would want to see from him, because you know,

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Speaker 4: what became a theme over his first you know, half

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Speaker 4: of his UFC run so far was the whole idea

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Speaker 4: of what if a true wrestler gets in there and

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Speaker 4: puts him on his back, same thing Connor McGregor had.

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Speaker 3: In that initial rise as well.

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Speaker 4: So I thought, you know, even compared to the fights

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Speaker 4: that took place after this, his grappling ability, his ability

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Speaker 4: to get up after taking down, his ability to work

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Speaker 4: the standing clinch against the six foot three strong fighter,

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Speaker 4: and Wilkinson was all very strong, but Luke, it was

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Speaker 4: that sustained ass kicking, just brutal, violent, busting open the face,

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Speaker 4: you're just waiting for the referee to jump in. That

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Speaker 4: was my lingering feeling at that time, going holy crap,

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Speaker 4: like there's some Anderson Silver like feelings here watching this

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Speaker 4: guy do this, and it was.

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Speaker 2: Interesting to go through the first two fights when you

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Speaker 2: hear him compared by the commentators both either Cormier admitting

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Speaker 2: the victory fight which we're talking about just a moment,

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Speaker 2: bringing or asking to bring in Ada Signa for the

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Speaker 2: Jones fights before Otto Signi was a known commodity to

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Speaker 2: MMA or UFC fans, and then saying he bristled at

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Speaker 2: the idea that he was the next John Jones. You

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Speaker 2: could see now the John Jones comparisons actually in retrospect

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Speaker 2: seem kind of silly. They're very different fighters. Obviously there's

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Speaker 2: some similarities with their frame and whatnot, but in terms

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Speaker 2: of how they fight not at all the same. You

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Speaker 2: could see early then where some of the tension might

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Speaker 2: come from. But I certainly I share your enthusiasm for

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Speaker 2: how the Wilkinson fight went. It just for some reason

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Speaker 2: that didn't capture my imagination. As good as it was.

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Speaker 2: You could see he moved so well, good footwork, good defense, slick,

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Speaker 2: the whole nine, But that by itself didn't capture my imagination.

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Speaker 2: It was more the total package, and so it brings

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Speaker 2: us a little bit less. You have more to say

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Speaker 2: about the Wilkinson fight, it didn't happen. It wasn't a

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Speaker 2: UFC card, but it was more of a let's get

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Speaker 2: to know him. But what's interesting is, you see he

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Speaker 2: turned right around from February to April. He goes into

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Speaker 2: the Vittori fight. Vittori is now known as a guy

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Speaker 2: who is obviously a force to be reckoned with it

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Speaker 2: one hundred and eighty five pounds and did good work,

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Speaker 2: but had a bit of a stumble in the third round,

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Speaker 2: getting taken down and kind of held down for a

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Speaker 2: long period of time.

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Speaker 1: What do you remember about this fight?

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Speaker 4: Well, I remember That's why I brought up the whole

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Speaker 4: point about the Wilkinson fight being such a like, oh shit,

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Speaker 4: like what do we really have here?

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Speaker 3: And it wasn't just the you know, the violent nature

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Speaker 3: of walking him down.

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Speaker 4: And then you know what you mentioned was that call

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Speaker 4: out in the cage after the Wilkinson fight. I mean, look,

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Speaker 4: that's about as bold as you get for a guy making.

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Speaker 3: His debut in the UFC.

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Speaker 4: And so I had such a high feeling coming into

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Speaker 4: the Victoria fight that this was the Hey reach out

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Speaker 4: to the other guys in your friend circle and say

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Speaker 4: you might want to tune in and check this guy out.

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Speaker 4: I certainly had those moments ahead of the Victoria fight,

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Speaker 4: and I remember specifically Luke being almost.

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Speaker 3: Disappointed, not that he didn't not that he wasn't the

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Speaker 3: rightful and.

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Speaker 4: Deserving winner, and not that all in all he didn't

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Speaker 4: have a plus performance, which I think he did despite

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Speaker 4: that third round moment, those moments on the ground that

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Speaker 4: you're talking about. I just kind of expected, based on

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Speaker 4: the performance in the first fight, that we may be

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Speaker 4: onto something extra special. This slowed that role, but I

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Speaker 4: think as we're going to find out with not only

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Speaker 4: this fight but some of the others that followed, he

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Speaker 4: needed this one. He needed to kind of find out

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Speaker 4: exactly where he was Luke. Because you go back and

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Speaker 4: watch this, I got a couple things to point out. One,

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Speaker 4: I mean, Victorian in that first round was live. He

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Speaker 4: was cutting off the cage. He was quick and explosive.

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Speaker 4: He didn't fear anything that out of sign he was

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Speaker 4: bringing back at him. So you had to see in

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Speaker 4: Audasnia that could not know get out to a lead,

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Speaker 4: control distance and kind of do ada Soignia things.

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Speaker 3: You saw him in sort of.

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Speaker 4: Fight mode right off the start, that was as key

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Speaker 4: Luke as I think the third round where he had

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Speaker 4: some legitimate challenges on his back, and I think it

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Speaker 4: was a dominant cruise on the call who really kind

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Speaker 4: of called him out for it in a constructive critical way,

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Speaker 4: but really was sort of like, if you're that guy,

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Speaker 4: you got to be able to get off the mat

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Speaker 4: because what you're showing us in response to being taken down,

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Speaker 4: these are not wrestling moves.

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Speaker 3: You're trying to get up. You're just trying to you know,

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Speaker 3: panic and get up.

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Speaker 4: So I think the one other point I want to

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Speaker 4: make is you've in recent years when we bring up

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Speaker 4: this fight and we mentioned, hey, split decision, man, it

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Speaker 4: was closed victory was able to do things against a

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Speaker 4: young auDA Sonya at least young in his UFC maturity,

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Speaker 4: that no one really has been able to do, and

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Speaker 4: you are always the guy going Look, it may have

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Speaker 4: been a split decision, but.

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Speaker 3: I think is he had that comfortably?

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Speaker 4: You know, I go back, Luke, I almost got this

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Speaker 4: thirty seven to twenty seven across the board from him.

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Speaker 4: I mean, look, in the end, you can give you

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Speaker 4: can give Vittori the last round because he did take

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Speaker 4: ad Asanya down Luke, he did nothing offensively when he

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Speaker 4: did have aut Asanya down.

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Speaker 3: So I'm really not trying.

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Speaker 4: To turn this into a city cuckboxing fan fest, but

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Speaker 4: I will tell you this on Adasanya.

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Speaker 3: In hindsight, this win looks a lot better.

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Speaker 4: They may end up rematching one day down the line

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Speaker 4: if Adasanya stays at middleweight because of the storyline here

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Speaker 4: and because I do think Vittori has you know, re

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Speaker 4: emerged after some hiccups to really fi out find out

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Speaker 4: how good he could be. But go back and watch

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Speaker 4: this fight. Man, he was in it from the beginning.

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Speaker 4: He showed he can swim in these waters. And even

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Speaker 4: with those wrestling deficiencies, Luke, he needed it. He needed

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Speaker 4: to sort of, you know, figure out what he needed

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Speaker 4: to work on, and we never have seen this these

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Speaker 4: moments that we saw here in round three.

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Speaker 2: Again, what was interesting about this fight is I think you,

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Speaker 2: you know, adequately summarize it.

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Speaker 1: You could listen if you want to give the third

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Speaker 1: round to Vittoria. I think you can.

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Speaker 2: Certainly there were moments in the first two rounds it

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Speaker 2: was interesting for Vittoria. He was not totally out of it,

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Speaker 2: but in general, the story heading into the third round

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Speaker 2: Cormier was talking about it as the commentator. There wasn't

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Speaker 2: hardly any takedown attempts from Vittoria, and more to the point,

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Speaker 2: if they're fighting at this range in general, overtime it

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Speaker 2: was Vittori who was gonna get pieced up. It was

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Speaker 2: a reminder of what Atta Signa could do. But I

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Speaker 2: actually think that the legacy BC of the Wilkinson and

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Speaker 2: the Vittori fight at that time is what it basically

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Speaker 2: did was set up the next chapter of his career

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Speaker 2: from a narrative standpoint, And by that I mean there

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Speaker 2: was a lot of hype among combat sports insiders about

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Speaker 2: Otto Signia come into UFC. He beats Wilkinson in a drubbing,

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Speaker 2: but you know, no one really knew how much how

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Speaker 2: good his opponent was. Then he goes against Vittori, and

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Speaker 2: at the time, I don't think people really understood how

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Speaker 2: good Vittori was. So the first two fights set up

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Speaker 2: a bit of a narrative if you wanted to buy

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Speaker 2: into it. Mercifully we saw around it, but there were

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Speaker 2: plenty of people who didn't, suggesting that, you know what,

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Speaker 2: this guy might be a little bit overrated.

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Speaker 4: And no, no question about that, Luke, I really want

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Speaker 4: to echo that I was straight up from almost a

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Speaker 4: just a fan point of view, almost disappointed in this,

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Speaker 4: you know, like when it happened again, in hindsight, I

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Speaker 4: don't think it actually looks as bad. In that moment,

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Speaker 4: I thought he was gonna, you know, gonna have to

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Speaker 4: walk this guy down, why and do it spectacularly, because

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Speaker 4: he just said in the cage the fight before that,

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Speaker 4: I'm here, I'm gonna piss all over you guys. And

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Speaker 4: I don't think one thing we set up this victory

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Speaker 4: fight was April twenty eighteen. It was on a key

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Speaker 4: UFC on Fox quarterly, you know, post up card, Poorrier

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Speaker 4: Engaechee in the main event, which was good, god must see.

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Speaker 4: And you had this, as you know, the third fight

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Speaker 4: on the main card, a very featured slot. I think

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Speaker 4: UFC just the same was like, oh shit, do we

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Speaker 4: really have another Anderson Silva who kind of reminds us

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Speaker 4: of John Jones who talks a lot of McGregor, Like shit,

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Speaker 4: they only had one fight to sort of see what

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Speaker 4: they had there, Luke, that was spectacular.

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Speaker 3: I think in a lot of categories, this was.

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Speaker 4: Sort of a in the moment, a very muted performance,

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Speaker 4: which adequately set up that narrative that you're talking about

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Speaker 4: that oh my god, you know this guy maybe fly,

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Speaker 4: but take him down and you're going to see a

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Speaker 4: different story.

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Speaker 1: Right. But so I think it's set up two different realities.

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Speaker 2: When I say realities, I shouldn't maybe two different one reality,

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Speaker 2: one narrative, and they were in contrast to one another.

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Speaker 2: The narrative, as we've established, was coming out of these

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Speaker 2: two fights, Okay, he's obviously skilled on the feet, but

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Speaker 2: you know, not so skilled. He didn't have any one

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Speaker 2: hit or quitters. You know, Wilkinson just kind of folded

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Speaker 2: when he folded. Vittorri was there all the way through,

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Speaker 2: So it's like, how good is he really? Plus you

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Speaker 2: have these these wrestling deficiencies. It was imagined heading into

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Speaker 2: now the Brad Tavares fight, still twenty eighteen, in fact,

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Speaker 2: just five months or so beyond his initial debut. But

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Speaker 2: now he's in the main event. So a couple things

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Speaker 2: are happening here.

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Speaker 1: BC one.

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Speaker 2: He's turning around very quickly too. He is escalating up

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Speaker 2: the card now in the main events.

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Speaker 1: Loot.

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Speaker 2: Now, this was the card that was the day before

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Speaker 2: Cormier Miochich one UFC two twenty six. In fact, I

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Speaker 2: know that because the day after that fight, on a

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Speaker 2: Saturday morning, I was there in Las Vegas. We covered

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Speaker 2: that fight night for Sirius XM. And then the next

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Speaker 2: day after he won, which we'll talk about, he actually

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Speaker 2: came and did our post fight show.

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Speaker 1: I think it was me and Misha Tate.

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Speaker 2: He joined us for like an hour at this bar

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Speaker 2: where we were having a show, and he was as friendly,

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Speaker 2: said he would accommodate the entire show if we wanted.

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Speaker 1: It was an interesting moment.

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Speaker 2: But the reason beyond just that that it sets up

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Speaker 2: those two things that I mentioned earlier, is because here's

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Speaker 2: what the Tavares fight revealed on the sixth of July

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Speaker 2: and twenty eighteen.

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Speaker 1: Number one BC. He won it, and he won it in.

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Speaker 2: A spectacular fashion over a proven, battle tested veteran. He

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Speaker 2: styled the entire time, dropped the guy multiple times, and

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Speaker 2: more to the point, it revealed that the concerns about

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Speaker 2: him being overrated, we're just ramping up more and more,

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Speaker 2: as well as.

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Speaker 1: The narrative that he is getting better very quickly.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and I like you.

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Speaker 4: I didn't I didn't realize you had you were at

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Speaker 4: this fight, Luke, this was the ultimate fighter card. As

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Speaker 4: you said the night before, this was also the main

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Speaker 4: event five round so this was certainly, you know, a

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Speaker 4: bit of a double down UFC going, what do we

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Speaker 4: have in this guy, Let's put him in the main

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Speaker 4: event here and Luke I rewatching this broadcast yesterday, I

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Speaker 4: was surprised. I didn't realize that this was basically a

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Speaker 4: virtual pick'm fight odds making wise, So that shows you

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Speaker 4: how much sort of the momentum was muted, just to

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Speaker 4: a degree, in how close the victory fight was, where

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Speaker 4: even the odds makers are saying, look, I know bred

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Speaker 4: Teavarus was at a different point in his career, but

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Speaker 4: you know they liked him a lot in this fight,

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Speaker 4: so to have out of Sonya come in and do

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Speaker 4: what you said, he masterfully controlled distance. Luke I was

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Speaker 4: sitting cage side. I actually was two seats over from

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Speaker 4: his parents, and it was kind of a kick because

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Speaker 4: you know, we're just getting to know owt Asnia as

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Speaker 4: journalists at that point, maybe only knowing a few fun

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Speaker 4: sound bites, and then you see his you know, his

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Speaker 4: older aged parents sitting there, very distinguished looking and proper

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Speaker 4: and then the moment they announced his name.

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Speaker 3: In the cage looked they went ape. I mean, they

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Speaker 3: just went crazy.

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Speaker 4: It was great to see sort of the pride that

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Speaker 4: unfortunately Rob Thomas does not show morning combat in honor

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Speaker 4: of you, but you know, shout out to the Thomas

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Speaker 4: family just the same. And what Atisigni was able to

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Speaker 4: do in there, I mean, just pick a part, focus

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Speaker 4: on the face, I mean, just busting up the eye,

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Speaker 4: bloodying him.

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Speaker 3: It was masterful. He didn't spend the fight on his back.

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Speaker 4: And oh, by the way, he went five hard rounds

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Speaker 4: at a high pace and looked like you don't want

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Speaker 4: to say championship ready, because that's still so early in

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Speaker 4: his rise, even though it would be just a couple

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Speaker 4: more fights before he would fight for an interim championship.

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Speaker 4: But I think he rounded out some of those edges

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Speaker 4: really really profoundly in that fight and just how dominant

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Speaker 4: he was.

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Speaker 1: That was the first fight BC.

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Speaker 2: Tell me if you agree that was the first time

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Speaker 2: you not only got a real good look at his ability, like, oh, rights,

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Speaker 2: when he's doing his thing, he's going to be a

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Speaker 2: lot better than a lot of his contemporaries at this

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Speaker 2: That was the first time I got that, and that

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Speaker 2: was the first fight where I began to really imagine possibility.

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Speaker 2: That was the first time where I was like, okay,

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Speaker 2: wait a second. To your point, I don't know if

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Speaker 2: a title is gonna be a thing or how soon

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Speaker 2: or what, because that's those interests are so hard to

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Speaker 2: really piece together.

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Speaker 1: But I did begin to think.

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Speaker 2: B see after this fight, when he had his hand raised,

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Speaker 2: that was the very first time I was like, dude,

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Speaker 2: this is somebody who can do things in a very

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Speaker 2: very special way. I did not necessarily have that exact

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Speaker 2: same feeling after the victory fight, despite how good the performance.

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Speaker 1: Might have been.

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Speaker 3: That's a great point.

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Speaker 4: And just to back up on the odds in Tavares Luke,

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Speaker 4: he was coming in on a four fight win streak,

400
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Speaker 4: so he was pretty hot there. He had been knocked

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Speaker 4: out by Robert Whitaker, and then Tavares went on to

402
00:17:33,359 --> 00:17:37,760
Speaker 4: be Magilhays, Teodoru Latis in Jocko, so you know, some

403
00:17:37,880 --> 00:17:40,920
Speaker 4: solid wins to get back to that point. But even

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Speaker 4: though he caught out of Sonya's chin a couple of times,

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Speaker 4: I mean, there was almost nothing negative to say about

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Speaker 4: this fight.

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Speaker 3: I mean, it was just completely complete dominant.

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Speaker 4: So well's done too when they give you the ball

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Speaker 4: in a you know, in in a fairly strong position

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Speaker 4: as a headliner. And even though that fight, Car, I

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Speaker 4: don't know if you remember being there, Luke, that dragged

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Speaker 4: on deep.

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Speaker 3: Into the night.

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Speaker 4: That was a long ass night at the office there.

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Speaker 4: But we got to see a little bit in the

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Speaker 4: beginning Luke first half.

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Speaker 2: Well to the point, I mean, some of the numbers

418
00:18:06,480 --> 00:18:09,760
Speaker 2: in this fight are remarkable. Brat Tavarrez one for twelve

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Speaker 2: on takedown attempts, one for twelve only landed forty significant

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Speaker 2: strikes out a sign you'll landed one hundred and twenty,

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Speaker 2: you know, doing multiples of what he was doing. I

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Speaker 2: have to say also at this point, BC, you got

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00:18:23,040 --> 00:18:25,720
Speaker 2: to give credit to UFC where credit is due. We'll

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Speaker 2: criticize them when the time is right. We'll give them

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Speaker 2: credit when the time is right as well. We had

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Speaker 2: the same conversation slightly different terms obviously with the McGregor

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Speaker 2: resume review, but here with this one, one of the

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00:18:36,440 --> 00:18:38,720
Speaker 2: key con I mean, obviously McGregor had the injury with

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Speaker 2: his leg, but in terms of getting him out there

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Speaker 2: as much as possible when the moment was right. They

431
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Speaker 2: did that here. They kept this guy in very quick rotation.

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Speaker 2: He wanted to stay active, and the matchmakers, if they

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Speaker 2: want to favor you in this way, they will, And

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Speaker 2: they allowed this guy to get better very quickly.

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Speaker 1: Obviously he did the work with what I'm saying.

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Speaker 2: Is to showcase it and to build him into a

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00:19:01,440 --> 00:19:04,760
Speaker 2: star in a very rapid fashion. They recognized that they

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Speaker 2: had someone here and they kept him in frequent rotation

439
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Speaker 2: as a consequence. Last note about the Brad Tavares fight

440
00:19:13,880 --> 00:19:18,080
Speaker 2: BC before we move on. When he won this, I

441
00:19:18,240 --> 00:19:22,399
Speaker 2: believe that is when, as I mentioned before, the echoes

442
00:19:22,480 --> 00:19:26,080
Speaker 2: of oh, he might be overrated were a function of

443
00:19:26,200 --> 00:19:29,000
Speaker 2: the pre fight build into the Tavares fight. But as

444
00:19:29,080 --> 00:19:33,360
Speaker 2: good as he looked, stuffing takedowns, landing at will, styling

445
00:19:33,440 --> 00:19:36,879
Speaker 2: on him the whole nine yards, that is when his

446
00:19:37,040 --> 00:19:39,679
Speaker 2: next fight, which by the way, we're still in twenty eighteen.

447
00:19:39,800 --> 00:19:43,040
Speaker 2: Remarkable to think about, this was the Derek Brunson fight.

448
00:19:43,119 --> 00:19:45,560
Speaker 2: This one was at Madison Square Garden, New York City,

449
00:19:46,080 --> 00:19:49,880
Speaker 2: UFC two thirty and I'll never forget I had I had.

450
00:19:49,920 --> 00:19:51,800
Speaker 2: I'm sure you talked him many times that week as well.

451
00:19:51,840 --> 00:19:53,240
Speaker 1: I had Tavar.

452
00:19:53,320 --> 00:19:55,040
Speaker 2: Excuse me, I had Brunson, I spoke to him, I

453
00:19:55,040 --> 00:19:57,080
Speaker 2: had out a sign you on the Hour, which I

454
00:19:57,119 --> 00:20:00,080
Speaker 2: was hosting at the time, and I remember that the

455
00:20:00,119 --> 00:20:03,600
Speaker 2: anti Israel out of Sonya is good crowd. This was

456
00:20:03,720 --> 00:20:06,159
Speaker 2: not saying their peak, BC, but this was when they

457
00:20:06,200 --> 00:20:07,240
Speaker 2: became quite noticeable.

458
00:20:07,320 --> 00:20:09,200
Speaker 4: Well it's not only was it their peak, this may

459
00:20:09,240 --> 00:20:12,320
Speaker 4: have been their last stand. Now, look, there's still haters

460
00:20:12,320 --> 00:20:14,480
Speaker 4: out there that'll tell you, like I hated.

461
00:20:14,280 --> 00:20:15,879
Speaker 3: A little bit after the Anderson Silva fight, you know

462
00:20:15,920 --> 00:20:16,159
Speaker 3: what I mean.

463
00:20:16,160 --> 00:20:18,800
Speaker 4: There's haters that tell you, how'd you go five ridiculous

464
00:20:18,880 --> 00:20:21,360
Speaker 4: rounds of gastolon when he hasn't done anything since then.

465
00:20:21,440 --> 00:20:22,600
Speaker 3: So there's always going to be haters.

466
00:20:22,600 --> 00:20:25,080
Speaker 4: But Luke, I think this was the last stand of

467
00:20:25,119 --> 00:20:27,959
Speaker 4: where the out of Sonia haters not only rose high quickly,

468
00:20:28,320 --> 00:20:30,400
Speaker 4: but we're clinging to the idea.

469
00:20:30,080 --> 00:20:32,000
Speaker 3: That a wrestler is going to come in and solve them, and.

470
00:20:31,960 --> 00:20:34,280
Speaker 4: That Derek Brunson would be that guy, you know, with

471
00:20:34,359 --> 00:20:36,639
Speaker 4: the mix of the striking and just the old school

472
00:20:36,680 --> 00:20:40,760
Speaker 4: grind specifically mentioned remember excuse me being at media day,

473
00:20:41,359 --> 00:20:43,840
Speaker 4: you know, interviewing both guys. It was a New York

474
00:20:43,880 --> 00:20:46,480
Speaker 4: card fourth fight in nine months. I mean, this is

475
00:20:46,560 --> 00:20:48,000
Speaker 4: just a hell of a way to kick it off.

476
00:20:48,280 --> 00:20:50,119
Speaker 4: But I also that was the first time I interviewed

477
00:20:50,200 --> 00:20:53,240
Speaker 4: him to specifically write a feature about him, Luke, and

478
00:20:53,280 --> 00:20:55,320
Speaker 4: in the one on one without Asnia, he really just

479
00:20:55,359 --> 00:20:58,520
Speaker 4: blew me away with the uh, the quickness of his wit.

480
00:20:58,680 --> 00:21:00,960
Speaker 4: You know, he did the whole Ready Player one stick

481
00:21:01,000 --> 00:21:03,080
Speaker 4: about how they're still loading, and I'm you know what,

482
00:21:03,200 --> 00:21:05,000
Speaker 4: I don't know he was speaking video.

483
00:21:04,760 --> 00:21:05,359
Speaker 3: Game code, Luke.

484
00:21:05,400 --> 00:21:07,879
Speaker 4: I would need my kids to really be able to,

485
00:21:07,960 --> 00:21:08,840
Speaker 4: you know, break.

486
00:21:08,560 --> 00:21:09,200
Speaker 3: That down for me.

487
00:21:09,520 --> 00:21:12,000
Speaker 4: But you saw that, Look this guy has on the

488
00:21:12,080 --> 00:21:15,280
Speaker 4: mic some real long term potential here. He just gets

489
00:21:15,320 --> 00:21:17,280
Speaker 4: it and sees the game a different way, just the

490
00:21:17,280 --> 00:21:19,320
Speaker 4: way he was talking about how this fight.

491
00:21:19,240 --> 00:21:19,639
Speaker 3: Was going to go.

492
00:21:19,680 --> 00:21:21,960
Speaker 4: And I think the biggest takeaway I had was that, Luke,

493
00:21:22,000 --> 00:21:24,720
Speaker 4: he was doubling and tripling down on the idea that, oh,

494
00:21:24,800 --> 00:21:27,480
Speaker 4: you think I'm going to get solved by wrestling, Watch

495
00:21:27,560 --> 00:21:30,080
Speaker 4: this fight on Saturday night, watch what happens, you know.

496
00:21:30,119 --> 00:21:32,439
Speaker 4: And I interviewed Brunson a few moments later in that

497
00:21:32,560 --> 00:21:34,520
Speaker 4: media day and he, you know, said the same thing.

498
00:21:34,840 --> 00:21:36,199
Speaker 4: This guy's not going to be able to live on

499
00:21:36,280 --> 00:21:38,560
Speaker 4: his back. You're going to see what happens, Luke. When

500
00:21:38,560 --> 00:21:41,000
Speaker 4: we got into the cage of that night at Old MSG,

501
00:21:41,160 --> 00:21:44,280
Speaker 4: which was a little bit of a muted MSG card,

502
00:21:44,320 --> 00:21:46,360
Speaker 4: you had DC and Derek Lewis on top. The other

503
00:21:46,400 --> 00:21:49,560
Speaker 4: big fights they had been trying to didn't really come

504
00:21:49,680 --> 00:21:53,960
Speaker 4: to fruition. So even though Derek Lewis definitely brought in

505
00:21:54,000 --> 00:21:57,639
Speaker 4: some b side love and people love seeing Cormier, you know,

506
00:21:57,960 --> 00:22:00,520
Speaker 4: by the time this fight card came around, you know,

507
00:22:00,520 --> 00:22:03,640
Speaker 4: it was almost like Attisania was certainly the people's main event.

508
00:22:03,680 --> 00:22:06,760
Speaker 3: To quote a Canadian, but this.

509
00:22:06,720 --> 00:22:08,680
Speaker 4: Was certainly he was becoming the star of this show

510
00:22:08,720 --> 00:22:10,480
Speaker 4: and the lead in Luke like this was gonna be

511
00:22:10,520 --> 00:22:14,000
Speaker 4: his close up moment and everything he freaking said about

512
00:22:14,040 --> 00:22:16,760
Speaker 4: takedown defense and wrestling was on point.

513
00:22:16,880 --> 00:22:17,080
Speaker 3: Luke.

514
00:22:17,200 --> 00:22:21,280
Speaker 4: The control he had in this fight was just next level.

515
00:22:21,359 --> 00:22:23,600
Speaker 4: Watching him. This was the second time I'd seen him

516
00:22:23,600 --> 00:22:25,480
Speaker 4: in person. But you know what it's like when you

517
00:22:25,520 --> 00:22:27,520
Speaker 4: get a great see or maybe you don't Luke, knowing

518
00:22:27,520 --> 00:22:29,400
Speaker 4: your history, but when you get the John Morgan seat

519
00:22:29,480 --> 00:22:33,080
Speaker 4: Luke and you can see not just the owning of distance,

520
00:22:33,840 --> 00:22:37,480
Speaker 4: not just the way that he was just manipulating Brunson

521
00:22:37,520 --> 00:22:41,360
Speaker 4: emotionally and talking trash in such subtle ways. But Luke,

522
00:22:41,440 --> 00:22:46,159
Speaker 4: that was like, you know, a maestro at the opera.

523
00:22:46,320 --> 00:22:48,720
Speaker 4: I mean the control he had on everything that was

524
00:22:48,720 --> 00:22:51,520
Speaker 4: happening in that cage. I think that's the moment whereas

525
00:22:51,560 --> 00:22:56,640
Speaker 4: the Tavares one was so solid and thorough, We're like, man, how,

526
00:22:56,680 --> 00:22:58,080
Speaker 4: I mean, how quick can we get him in a

527
00:22:58,080 --> 00:23:00,800
Speaker 4: title shot? Because we're getting there. This was the moment

528
00:23:00,800 --> 00:23:04,720
Speaker 4: where I was like, we're seeing something super special here,

529
00:23:04,760 --> 00:23:07,320
Speaker 4: like we're seeing somebody who understands this game at a

530
00:23:07,400 --> 00:23:10,120
Speaker 4: different level. And that was something again that I saw

531
00:23:10,200 --> 00:23:13,280
Speaker 4: teases of in the destruction of Wilkinson but hadn't really

532
00:23:13,359 --> 00:23:16,680
Speaker 4: seen again. And maybe for the benefit of Atisania, Luke,

533
00:23:16,880 --> 00:23:19,719
Speaker 4: maybe again he needed to go five rounds with Tavares.

534
00:23:19,760 --> 00:23:22,560
Speaker 4: He needed to get his wrestling checked against Vittori, because

535
00:23:22,600 --> 00:23:25,320
Speaker 4: it all came together against Brunson in a way that

536
00:23:25,480 --> 00:23:28,439
Speaker 4: was like show me this guy's holes, Please show me it.

537
00:23:28,800 --> 00:23:29,040
Speaker 3: Luke.

538
00:23:29,800 --> 00:23:32,359
Speaker 1: This was.

539
00:23:33,760 --> 00:23:36,000
Speaker 2: This was the first time where I could look at

540
00:23:36,000 --> 00:23:38,720
Speaker 2: his resume and I was like, dude, they keep giving

541
00:23:38,760 --> 00:23:42,960
Speaker 2: this guy tougher and tougher challenges and whatever backsliding you

542
00:23:43,040 --> 00:23:45,320
Speaker 2: want to say, happen in the Ventori fight. Start from there,

543
00:23:45,640 --> 00:23:49,760
Speaker 2: from Vittori to Tavares to now Brunson. The challenges were

544
00:23:49,960 --> 00:23:53,960
Speaker 2: escalating and his performances were getting better each time. He

545
00:23:54,080 --> 00:23:56,199
Speaker 2: wasn't staying level like, oh, I can keep up with

546
00:23:56,240 --> 00:23:59,760
Speaker 2: the UFC's demands of me. He was beginning to exceed them,

547
00:24:00,080 --> 00:24:02,760
Speaker 2: even as they didn't even get the same, They got

548
00:24:02,840 --> 00:24:06,640
Speaker 2: much more difficult. He went five rounds with Tavaras he

549
00:24:06,880 --> 00:24:11,000
Speaker 2: ran through Derek Brunson like a freight train, perfectly timing

550
00:24:11,040 --> 00:24:13,440
Speaker 2: the knee. You even saw a certain moment in the fight,

551
00:24:13,520 --> 00:24:15,920
Speaker 2: as short as it was, and remember this one did

552
00:24:15,960 --> 00:24:18,560
Speaker 2: not go very long, only four minutes and fifty one

553
00:24:18,560 --> 00:24:21,639
Speaker 2: seconds into the first round. I'll never forget there was

554
00:24:21,640 --> 00:24:24,320
Speaker 2: a moment Derek Brunson was desperate to get a takedown

555
00:24:24,480 --> 00:24:27,880
Speaker 2: on Israel at Asanya and was holding his shorts.

556
00:24:27,440 --> 00:24:27,959
Speaker 1: To do it.

557
00:24:28,000 --> 00:24:31,840
Speaker 2: And it shows up really quite badly, like desperate to

558
00:24:31,960 --> 00:24:33,600
Speaker 2: get it. And I'm not saying that Derek Brunson is

559
00:24:33,600 --> 00:24:35,199
Speaker 2: some kind of known cheat, or what I mean to

560
00:24:35,200 --> 00:24:37,520
Speaker 2: say is he may have been feeling the pressure. He

561
00:24:37,560 --> 00:24:39,600
Speaker 2: may have not really, I mean, they may have locked

562
00:24:39,680 --> 00:24:41,480
Speaker 2: up once or twice and he realized, Oh, this guy

563
00:24:41,560 --> 00:24:44,040
Speaker 2: is stronger or not what I thought, or something something

564
00:24:44,080 --> 00:24:47,520
Speaker 2: went through his mind that I think instinctually made a

565
00:24:47,520 --> 00:24:49,439
Speaker 2: guy like that want to grab the shorts of a

566
00:24:49,440 --> 00:24:50,840
Speaker 2: guy who was a kickbox And there was a bigger

567
00:24:50,920 --> 00:24:53,440
Speaker 2: narrative here to BC, which is that not only did I,

568
00:24:53,480 --> 00:24:56,600
Speaker 2: out of sign to shine through escalation, got a huge

569
00:24:56,640 --> 00:24:59,600
Speaker 2: stoppage on a major card. Right, so now you're answering

570
00:24:59,680 --> 00:25:01,639
Speaker 2: the not just the call of what the challenge is

571
00:25:01,640 --> 00:25:03,919
Speaker 2: in front of you, but the promotional call. We're going

572
00:25:03,960 --> 00:25:06,000
Speaker 2: to give you bigger stages. This is your tank to

573
00:25:06,000 --> 00:25:08,800
Speaker 2: make a big statement, and he kept doing it. There's

574
00:25:08,840 --> 00:25:12,400
Speaker 2: something else, though. It's a little bit unfair to say

575
00:25:12,440 --> 00:25:15,200
Speaker 2: that the history is a history of kickboxers coming over

576
00:25:15,200 --> 00:25:18,280
Speaker 2: to MMA is not as decorated as the amount from wrestling,

577
00:25:18,359 --> 00:25:20,840
Speaker 2: in part because there's not the same amount of populations.

578
00:25:21,080 --> 00:25:23,600
Speaker 2: There have been thousands of wrestlers who've come over. I

579
00:25:23,640 --> 00:25:26,240
Speaker 2: don't know there's been thousands of kickboxers from a high

580
00:25:26,359 --> 00:25:29,760
Speaker 2: level who have matriculated over to MMA. But the lesson

581
00:25:29,800 --> 00:25:32,159
Speaker 2: was kind of like, those guys can do well, but

582
00:25:32,160 --> 00:25:34,879
Speaker 2: they tend to not often do as well. And he

583
00:25:34,960 --> 00:25:36,919
Speaker 2: was beginning to really show that that was something of

584
00:25:36,960 --> 00:25:37,879
Speaker 2: outdated thinking.

585
00:25:37,960 --> 00:25:40,200
Speaker 1: Other ones before him, I want to point.

586
00:25:40,040 --> 00:25:41,399
Speaker 2: Out, have done that, but you go back to the

587
00:25:41,440 --> 00:25:44,719
Speaker 2: Pride days like Stefan Laco, these are just guys who

588
00:25:44,800 --> 00:25:47,080
Speaker 2: are not built to do well. You fast forward fifteen

589
00:25:47,200 --> 00:25:49,800
Speaker 2: years and all of a sudden kickboxers again. Out of

590
00:25:49,840 --> 00:25:52,280
Speaker 2: sign is quite special, but part of that larger narrative

591
00:25:53,320 --> 00:25:54,920
Speaker 2: as well. The last thing I'd say about this fight,

592
00:25:55,200 --> 00:25:58,400
Speaker 2: as I mentioned seeing him backstage and to your point, BC,

593
00:25:58,560 --> 00:26:00,639
Speaker 2: after the fight was over, he came out to the lounge,

594
00:26:00,720 --> 00:26:02,160
Speaker 2: We had a slice of pizza next to each other

595
00:26:02,200 --> 00:26:04,359
Speaker 2: and talk for a little bit. That was the time,

596
00:26:04,680 --> 00:26:06,560
Speaker 2: just like you, I was like, dude, this guy knows

597
00:26:06,600 --> 00:26:08,960
Speaker 2: how to fight better than his contemporaries, at least many

598
00:26:09,000 --> 00:26:11,080
Speaker 2: of them that he's faced so far. He's meeting all

599
00:26:11,119 --> 00:26:14,960
Speaker 2: the challenges promotionally, he's meeting all the challenges inside the cage.

600
00:26:15,000 --> 00:26:17,160
Speaker 2: And then when you talk to him, you really got

601
00:26:17,160 --> 00:26:20,600
Speaker 2: the sense like this dude is smart, you know, yeah,

602
00:26:20,760 --> 00:26:22,040
Speaker 2: smaer than the average bear.

603
00:26:22,760 --> 00:26:24,639
Speaker 4: I'm glad that you brought up that situation in the

604
00:26:24,640 --> 00:26:26,960
Speaker 4: media room afterwards at MSG, because it was the postfight

605
00:26:26,960 --> 00:26:30,440
Speaker 4: press conference there and he owned it. Luke. You know again,

606
00:26:30,520 --> 00:26:32,679
Speaker 4: look above DC and Lewis, even though they were the

607
00:26:32,680 --> 00:26:35,520
Speaker 4: main event, Adosania held court for a while, and I

608
00:26:35,520 --> 00:26:37,719
Speaker 4: thought what was interesting in this Luke was, you know,

609
00:26:38,119 --> 00:26:39,840
Speaker 4: this was his fourth fight and it still hadn't been

610
00:26:39,880 --> 00:26:42,240
Speaker 4: a calendar year, had been nine months, so he hadn't

611
00:26:42,280 --> 00:26:45,280
Speaker 4: really made a giant commercial impact yet. I mean, they'd

612
00:26:45,320 --> 00:26:47,639
Speaker 4: given him the main event spot against Tavares, and he

613
00:26:47,720 --> 00:26:51,159
Speaker 4: certainly was starting to deliver incrementally from a you know,

614
00:26:51,359 --> 00:26:52,240
Speaker 4: marketing standpoint.

615
00:26:52,240 --> 00:26:53,920
Speaker 3: But even now, Luke, to be really.

616
00:26:53,720 --> 00:26:56,720
Speaker 4: Honest, with even three years now, he hasn't had his

617
00:26:57,000 --> 00:27:00,199
Speaker 4: bust out crossover moment yet. I think it's it's been

618
00:27:00,240 --> 00:27:01,800
Speaker 4: a little bit more of a slow burn and he

619
00:27:01,840 --> 00:27:05,240
Speaker 4: can get there. Whereas McGregor and Lesner and even Rousey

620
00:27:05,320 --> 00:27:08,959
Speaker 4: were like so instantaneous and it just became this snowball

621
00:27:09,040 --> 00:27:11,760
Speaker 4: that just got bigger and bigger. His had been a

622
00:27:11,800 --> 00:27:13,879
Speaker 4: slow build and it is still a slow build. But

623
00:27:13,960 --> 00:27:16,439
Speaker 4: specifically in that room, I don't know if you remember,

624
00:27:16,480 --> 00:27:18,520
Speaker 4: he was he was showing his weird side for the

625
00:27:18,560 --> 00:27:20,959
Speaker 4: first time. He was also kind of pissing on fans,

626
00:27:21,000 --> 00:27:23,080
Speaker 4: pissing on critics. At one point he even kind of

627
00:27:23,080 --> 00:27:24,840
Speaker 4: pissed on the UFCMS, like I don't give a fuck

628
00:27:24,920 --> 00:27:27,240
Speaker 4: take away this microphone. There was like almost like this

629
00:27:27,400 --> 00:27:31,760
Speaker 4: defiance that showed me he's different than sort of the

630
00:27:31,800 --> 00:27:33,200
Speaker 4: traditional trash.

631
00:27:32,920 --> 00:27:34,400
Speaker 3: Talker and like a McGregor who.

632
00:27:34,320 --> 00:27:37,080
Speaker 4: Did it better than anyone, and you know, maybe different

633
00:27:37,160 --> 00:27:38,919
Speaker 4: than somebody like a chill Son and who's more of

634
00:27:38,920 --> 00:27:40,919
Speaker 4: a funny guy, or different than a you know, a

635
00:27:40,960 --> 00:27:41,880
Speaker 4: Cormier who's.

636
00:27:41,640 --> 00:27:42,440
Speaker 3: The lovable bear.

637
00:27:42,800 --> 00:27:45,439
Speaker 4: This guy's got this kind of changing skin that I

638
00:27:45,480 --> 00:27:47,640
Speaker 4: can't really tell if he's hero or villain.

639
00:27:47,680 --> 00:27:49,560
Speaker 3: But what I can tell is that he takes no shit.

640
00:27:49,880 --> 00:27:52,760
Speaker 4: He understands his role and his place in this and

641
00:27:53,760 --> 00:27:57,280
Speaker 4: he if somebody can be a global superstar whereas you know,

642
00:27:57,359 --> 00:27:59,879
Speaker 4: representing different countries and kind of you know, being the

643
00:28:00,200 --> 00:28:03,520
Speaker 4: giant thing, very few have that potential Luke. And even

644
00:28:03,560 --> 00:28:06,000
Speaker 4: though he hasn't fully reached that yet in the first

645
00:28:06,040 --> 00:28:08,920
Speaker 4: three years, this was the opening for me. This is

646
00:28:08,960 --> 00:28:11,040
Speaker 4: when those doors open and you're like, you know, this

647
00:28:11,040 --> 00:28:13,119
Speaker 4: guy could be main eventing pay per views for a

648
00:28:13,240 --> 00:28:15,200
Speaker 4: long time now. To be honest, even at that point,

649
00:28:15,280 --> 00:28:18,520
Speaker 4: though Luke, one year in four and oh, I wouldn't

650
00:28:18,520 --> 00:28:20,800
Speaker 4: have guessed he'd be the champion this quick or have

651
00:28:21,040 --> 00:28:24,600
Speaker 4: this many you know, thorough victories where we're now talking

652
00:28:24,880 --> 00:28:28,120
Speaker 4: light heavyweight, leap heavyweight in John Jones down the road.

653
00:28:28,200 --> 00:28:29,880
Speaker 3: It's really been you know, even.

654
00:28:29,640 --> 00:28:31,760
Speaker 4: To go just from that one year mark to now,

655
00:28:31,960 --> 00:28:33,040
Speaker 4: it's been pretty incredible.

656
00:28:33,320 --> 00:28:34,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, this will be a thing that we

657
00:28:34,840 --> 00:28:37,040
Speaker 2: get to as we can draw closer to the end

658
00:28:37,040 --> 00:28:38,960
Speaker 2: of his resume, or at least the moment we're at

659
00:28:39,040 --> 00:28:41,760
Speaker 2: right now. But I've been a big believer of his

660
00:28:41,840 --> 00:28:44,640
Speaker 2: for a long time and he's even exceeded my expectations

661
00:28:44,640 --> 00:28:47,040
Speaker 2: for what I thought was not so much possible as

662
00:28:47,080 --> 00:28:51,360
Speaker 2: a you know, an ultimate achievement. But the schedule that

663
00:28:51,400 --> 00:28:54,720
Speaker 2: he's done it on has been absolutely remarkable. So now

664
00:28:54,880 --> 00:28:57,800
Speaker 2: BC we're out of twenty eighteen, I want to remind

665
00:28:57,800 --> 00:29:00,080
Speaker 2: everyone he had six fights or five fight excuse me

666
00:29:00,080 --> 00:29:03,440
Speaker 2: me in a calendar year. So we're still within three

667
00:29:03,520 --> 00:29:05,680
Speaker 2: hundred and sixty five days. But now we moved to

668
00:29:05,720 --> 00:29:08,440
Speaker 2: twenty nineteen. This was a really interesting fight PC. They

669
00:29:08,440 --> 00:29:12,320
Speaker 2: brought him back to the Oceanic region, so Australia and

670
00:29:12,400 --> 00:29:14,960
Speaker 2: New Zealand. Now, this was initially supposed to be the

671
00:29:15,000 --> 00:29:19,360
Speaker 2: co main event for UFC two thirty four in Melbourne, Australia, Melbourne,

672
00:29:20,280 --> 00:29:21,360
Speaker 2: but it ended up being.

673
00:29:21,160 --> 00:29:21,760
Speaker 1: The main event.

674
00:29:21,800 --> 00:29:23,920
Speaker 2: Now you'll recall it was supposed to be Robert Whittaker

675
00:29:24,000 --> 00:29:26,360
Speaker 2: versus Kelvin Gaskellin. But I will never forget BC, it

676
00:29:26,400 --> 00:29:28,680
Speaker 2: was fight day. I certainly was not in Australia. I

677
00:29:28,760 --> 00:29:32,040
Speaker 2: was eating at this I think this Indian place on

678
00:29:32,680 --> 00:29:34,960
Speaker 2: near DuPont Circle here and I looked at my phone.

679
00:29:35,000 --> 00:29:37,440
Speaker 2: It's like Rob Whittaker and this is like three pm, dude.

680
00:29:37,560 --> 00:29:39,200
Speaker 2: And then I looked at my phone East Coast time

681
00:29:39,240 --> 00:29:41,240
Speaker 2: and Rob Whittaker was out because he had the stomach

682
00:29:41,280 --> 00:29:44,680
Speaker 2: issue whatever it ended up being, and the whole thing

683
00:29:44,800 --> 00:29:46,760
Speaker 2: was off, and I was like, wow, you gotta be

684
00:29:46,840 --> 00:29:52,400
Speaker 2: kidding me. So they elevated Anderson Silva versus Israel Atasignia

685
00:29:52,720 --> 00:29:56,560
Speaker 2: to the main event. This is a weird moment in

686
00:29:56,600 --> 00:29:59,320
Speaker 2: his career, BC, because I'll tell you what it meant

687
00:29:59,320 --> 00:30:01,400
Speaker 2: for me, But I want you to go first. What

688
00:30:01,520 --> 00:30:04,440
Speaker 2: did you learn from this fight about out of Sonya?

689
00:30:04,640 --> 00:30:06,800
Speaker 2: About this moment when you think back on what the

690
00:30:06,880 --> 00:30:10,360
Speaker 2: relevancy is to the resume of Israel out of Sonya,

691
00:30:10,440 --> 00:30:12,760
Speaker 2: what piece of the puzzle was Anderson Silva.

692
00:30:13,560 --> 00:30:16,040
Speaker 4: I think it's a lot bigger than we realized because

693
00:30:16,320 --> 00:30:18,480
Speaker 4: what I did focusing on looking back here was the

694
00:30:18,560 --> 00:30:21,280
Speaker 4: emotional journey that aud of Sonya kind of went through,

695
00:30:21,280 --> 00:30:23,120
Speaker 4: and it was kind of surprising to see. I remember

696
00:30:23,160 --> 00:30:24,640
Speaker 4: he was crying, you know, he had tears in his

697
00:30:24,680 --> 00:30:26,760
Speaker 4: eyes of the way in, because I think Anderson Silva

698
00:30:26,800 --> 00:30:29,960
Speaker 4: was trying his best to get in out of Sonya's

699
00:30:29,960 --> 00:30:33,240
Speaker 4: head and plant any kind of seed through love and respect,

700
00:30:33,240 --> 00:30:36,400
Speaker 4: but also through you know, don't forget I still got

701
00:30:36,440 --> 00:30:39,640
Speaker 4: something for you. And I really love the staredown between

702
00:30:39,640 --> 00:30:42,280
Speaker 4: these two in the cage during the referees instructions, because

703
00:30:42,280 --> 00:30:44,720
Speaker 4: I think Silva kind of bit down his bottom lip

704
00:30:44,720 --> 00:30:46,400
Speaker 4: and gave an evil glare and it was like one

705
00:30:46,480 --> 00:30:48,880
Speaker 4: more gut check time for out of Sonia. So I

706
00:30:48,880 --> 00:30:51,960
Speaker 4: think in hindsight, Luke he learned a lot about himself.

707
00:30:51,960 --> 00:30:54,160
Speaker 4: It was a weird circumstance. It was a three round

708
00:30:54,240 --> 00:30:57,800
Speaker 4: main event, yet it was a number one contenders fight,

709
00:30:57,880 --> 00:31:01,000
Speaker 4: and it didn't really deserve to be one because even

710
00:31:01,040 --> 00:31:03,160
Speaker 4: though Silva was coming off the only win Luke he's

711
00:31:03,160 --> 00:31:06,120
Speaker 4: had in seemingly the last decade that Derek Brunson win

712
00:31:06,160 --> 00:31:11,160
Speaker 4: for Silva was questionable in terms of the decision. Then

713
00:31:11,200 --> 00:31:13,880
Speaker 4: he was out for two years. Luke right, didn't he

714
00:31:13,920 --> 00:31:17,200
Speaker 4: have the USA of the situation. So Silva's first fight

715
00:31:17,360 --> 00:31:20,520
Speaker 4: back two year break is out of Sonya in a

716
00:31:20,560 --> 00:31:22,120
Speaker 4: three round pay per view main event.

717
00:31:22,240 --> 00:31:26,040
Speaker 2: No, No, he had fought at He had fought in twenty sixteen,

718
00:31:26,120 --> 00:31:29,840
Speaker 2: again against Cormier and Bisping. The break happened between twenty

719
00:31:29,880 --> 00:31:32,120
Speaker 2: thirteen and twenty fifteen, before the Nick Diaz fight.

720
00:31:32,360 --> 00:31:34,480
Speaker 3: Okay, so was this break the injury one? Right?

721
00:31:35,840 --> 00:31:39,040
Speaker 1: He may have had one after Cormier. I don't work.

722
00:31:39,080 --> 00:31:41,040
Speaker 1: I don't think so. I think this was just the

723
00:31:41,080 --> 00:31:41,720
Speaker 1: first one back.

724
00:31:41,720 --> 00:31:43,920
Speaker 2: But to your point, by the time he was facing

725
00:31:43,960 --> 00:31:46,800
Speaker 2: out of Sonya, his last one was Brunson, which was

726
00:31:46,800 --> 00:31:50,400
Speaker 2: February of twenty seventeen. Fine, but before that it was

727
00:31:50,480 --> 00:31:53,360
Speaker 2: Bonner in October of twenty twelve. He had a five

728
00:31:53,440 --> 00:31:55,360
Speaker 2: year gap between wins.

729
00:31:56,040 --> 00:31:59,440
Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm just trying to look it up real quick. Yeah,

730
00:31:59,440 --> 00:32:01,760
Speaker 4: I was right that he was supposed to fight Gastolon

731
00:32:01,840 --> 00:32:04,400
Speaker 4: after Brunson, but then he had the USATA hiccup. So

732
00:32:04,440 --> 00:32:07,120
Speaker 4: he was out for two years and his first fight back,

733
00:32:07,160 --> 00:32:09,560
Speaker 4: they're basically giving him a number one contenders fight and

734
00:32:09,600 --> 00:32:10,600
Speaker 4: a pay per view main event.

735
00:32:10,840 --> 00:32:12,040
Speaker 3: But yet in a.

736
00:32:11,960 --> 00:32:14,480
Speaker 4: Weird way, we justified it at that time, and it

737
00:32:14,560 --> 00:32:17,680
Speaker 4: turned out to be certainly a more competitive.

738
00:32:17,200 --> 00:32:18,320
Speaker 3: Fight than all of us thought.

739
00:32:18,680 --> 00:32:20,640
Speaker 4: And what's weird, Luke, is in the moment, and I

740
00:32:20,680 --> 00:32:22,480
Speaker 4: know you and I argued about this and differed on

741
00:32:22,480 --> 00:32:26,200
Speaker 4: the MMAB. I thought this was a lateral to step

742
00:32:26,280 --> 00:32:29,760
Speaker 4: back performance from Autosanyia because he was expected to blow

743
00:32:29,800 --> 00:32:33,080
Speaker 4: away Silva obviously, and what was Silva was what forty three?

744
00:32:33,120 --> 00:32:35,479
Speaker 4: Whatever he was at that point. I'll give Anderson this credit,

745
00:32:35,680 --> 00:32:38,360
Speaker 4: whatever he had left. And this is in a stretch, Luke,

746
00:32:38,400 --> 00:32:40,560
Speaker 4: where he's got one win in like ten fights for

747
00:32:40,640 --> 00:32:43,960
Speaker 4: all different various reasons. He poured out whatever he had

748
00:32:44,040 --> 00:32:46,960
Speaker 4: left right to avoid getting into too much trouble, and

749
00:32:47,080 --> 00:32:50,360
Speaker 4: in some moments, including that second round, Anderson was kind

750
00:32:50,360 --> 00:32:54,239
Speaker 4: of competitive. I may have in real time overscored that,

751
00:32:54,600 --> 00:32:56,360
Speaker 4: not scoring it on the scorecards.

752
00:32:56,440 --> 00:32:56,600
Speaker 1: Right.

753
00:32:56,640 --> 00:33:00,440
Speaker 4: It was a clean, unanimous decision win for Adasania, thinking

754
00:33:00,440 --> 00:33:03,040
Speaker 4: to a certain degree that Anderson had gotten in his head,

755
00:33:03,200 --> 00:33:05,000
Speaker 4: and maybe that was a gotten in his head to

756
00:33:05,040 --> 00:33:08,680
Speaker 4: where uh Audasanya wasn't going to bite down and go

757
00:33:08,760 --> 00:33:10,680
Speaker 4: for it and try to try to hurt and and

758
00:33:10,760 --> 00:33:12,960
Speaker 4: you know, take down his hero. Because when you're seeing

759
00:33:13,000 --> 00:33:14,840
Speaker 4: these two start off in the beginning of this fight,

760
00:33:14,880 --> 00:33:16,520
Speaker 4: it's the Spider Man meme. I mean there, you know,

761
00:33:16,560 --> 00:33:19,120
Speaker 4: it's it's the old master against the new one, fighting

762
00:33:19,440 --> 00:33:22,120
Speaker 4: kind of the same style, a lot of head and handgames.

763
00:33:22,600 --> 00:33:25,200
Speaker 4: And I think in that moment I thought that not

764
00:33:25,240 --> 00:33:27,280
Speaker 4: only did he let Anderson off the hook a little bit,

765
00:33:27,520 --> 00:33:29,440
Speaker 4: I think he was a little bit afraid to get countered.

766
00:33:29,480 --> 00:33:30,640
Speaker 3: I think he didn't want any trouble.

767
00:33:30,680 --> 00:33:32,600
Speaker 4: He got to a certain point where Anderson was having

768
00:33:32,640 --> 00:33:35,960
Speaker 4: more success than Israel thought he would, and then thought,

769
00:33:36,000 --> 00:33:37,920
Speaker 4: you know what, I'm not gonna fuck around here.

770
00:33:38,200 --> 00:33:39,680
Speaker 3: I'm gonna get I'm just gonna get the win, and

771
00:33:39,680 --> 00:33:40,480
Speaker 3: that's gonna be okay.

772
00:33:40,680 --> 00:33:42,560
Speaker 4: I don't know how much I support that in hindsight

773
00:33:42,560 --> 00:33:45,160
Speaker 4: from rewatching it, Luke, and I do agree with a

774
00:33:45,160 --> 00:33:47,040
Speaker 4: lot of what you said that, you know, there are

775
00:33:47,040 --> 00:33:50,760
Speaker 4: some sophistications to Addisanya's game that you really have to

776
00:33:50,840 --> 00:33:54,560
Speaker 4: focus and understand that, you know, all the traps and

777
00:33:54,640 --> 00:33:56,680
Speaker 4: mind games he's setting. And in some ways, again, this

778
00:33:56,760 --> 00:33:58,920
Speaker 4: fight was kind of cool because they're both constantly trying

779
00:33:58,920 --> 00:34:01,120
Speaker 4: to trap each other. And I don't hold it against

780
00:34:01,120 --> 00:34:04,560
Speaker 4: Adasanya as much for the fact that it was very tactical,

781
00:34:04,760 --> 00:34:06,560
Speaker 4: for the fact that he didn't finish him or really

782
00:34:06,560 --> 00:34:08,759
Speaker 4: have Anderson in a ton of trouble, despite you know,

783
00:34:08,840 --> 00:34:11,600
Speaker 4: swelling his eye and kind of damaging him there. I

784
00:34:11,719 --> 00:34:13,759
Speaker 4: just remember afterwards and tell me again if I'm wrong.

785
00:34:13,760 --> 00:34:15,160
Speaker 4: And it's weird that we've had a few of these,

786
00:34:15,239 --> 00:34:17,680
Speaker 4: not just the Victoria fight, not just the Romero fight,

787
00:34:17,719 --> 00:34:18,200
Speaker 4: which we're.

788
00:34:18,040 --> 00:34:19,960
Speaker 3: Going to talk about. But I felt that he came

789
00:34:19,960 --> 00:34:20,239
Speaker 3: out of.

790
00:34:20,239 --> 00:34:23,239
Speaker 4: Here a little muted from what he should have been,

791
00:34:23,280 --> 00:34:25,560
Speaker 4: which is he just he was just put away a

792
00:34:25,640 --> 00:34:27,839
Speaker 4: legend and is now going to get that title opportunity.

793
00:34:28,040 --> 00:34:29,880
Speaker 3: I almost felt like there were some some holes you

794
00:34:29,880 --> 00:34:30,480
Speaker 3: could pick.

795
00:34:31,120 --> 00:34:33,160
Speaker 1: Well, this was the fight that you got. I think

796
00:34:33,280 --> 00:34:34,120
Speaker 1: the Victori fight.

797
00:34:34,239 --> 00:34:36,440
Speaker 2: It's a little hard to make this claim, although you

798
00:34:36,480 --> 00:34:39,080
Speaker 2: could if you wanted to. But certainly this fight and

799
00:34:39,120 --> 00:34:41,960
Speaker 2: definitely the Romero fight, will show you the limits of

800
00:34:42,040 --> 00:34:47,359
Speaker 2: Adasanya's game. From a from an I don't even want

801
00:34:47,360 --> 00:34:50,880
Speaker 2: to say the entertainment standpoint, but from a consistently deliverable

802
00:34:51,000 --> 00:34:54,200
Speaker 2: entertainment standpoint, you know there are some guys like you know,

803
00:34:54,239 --> 00:34:56,640
Speaker 2: who could you pick, you know, Edson Barboza. You know,

804
00:34:56,719 --> 00:34:58,960
Speaker 2: it's going to be pretty hard for Edsen Barboza to

805
00:34:59,000 --> 00:35:01,440
Speaker 2: be in any kind of a fight that's win or lose,

806
00:35:01,600 --> 00:35:03,680
Speaker 2: you know, a little bit on the muted side.

807
00:35:03,719 --> 00:35:05,839
Speaker 1: That's just not his game. You know, you can find

808
00:35:05,880 --> 00:35:06,799
Speaker 1: a lot of guys.

809
00:35:06,680 --> 00:35:09,279
Speaker 2: Who are like that, but that can on occasion be

810
00:35:09,360 --> 00:35:11,600
Speaker 2: out of Signya's game. This one did not live up

811
00:35:11,600 --> 00:35:15,000
Speaker 2: to the hype at the time for many people.

812
00:35:15,080 --> 00:35:15,640
Speaker 1: Not so much me.

813
00:35:15,680 --> 00:35:18,360
Speaker 2: And I'll tell you why just a second, because you know,

814
00:35:18,400 --> 00:35:20,440
Speaker 2: to your point, was it super thrilling. There was some

815
00:35:20,520 --> 00:35:22,880
Speaker 2: back and forth moments. There was out of Signya doing

816
00:35:22,960 --> 00:35:25,200
Speaker 2: the taunting where he was doing like you know, Keanu

817
00:35:25,280 --> 00:35:27,640
Speaker 2: Reeves from the Matrix, and there were some tricks and

818
00:35:27,680 --> 00:35:29,880
Speaker 2: both guys had a couple of nice moments, and in

819
00:35:29,920 --> 00:35:31,840
Speaker 2: the end it was one guy was, you know, probably

820
00:35:31,880 --> 00:35:33,520
Speaker 2: a little bit better than the other guy from the

821
00:35:33,520 --> 00:35:35,520
Speaker 2: way I looked in terms of damage. So let's give

822
00:35:35,520 --> 00:35:38,239
Speaker 2: the nod to Adasignia. It was supposed to be this

823
00:35:38,360 --> 00:35:41,120
Speaker 2: like at home in front of Australia New Zealand crowds.

824
00:35:41,520 --> 00:35:43,880
Speaker 2: It was supposed to be this like torch passing the

825
00:35:43,920 --> 00:35:45,879
Speaker 2: guy who used to do what Atta Signa is doing.

826
00:35:45,880 --> 00:35:47,880
Speaker 2: Now let's have Ata Signya beat him in front of

827
00:35:47,880 --> 00:35:50,600
Speaker 2: his home audience. And you didn't quite get that clean,

828
00:35:51,400 --> 00:35:54,160
Speaker 2: you know, baton relay that I think UFC was looking for.

829
00:35:54,200 --> 00:35:56,120
Speaker 2: But I will tell you what the Eureka moment was

830
00:35:56,800 --> 00:36:00,479
Speaker 2: for me. This was a fight to your point three rounds.

831
00:36:00,520 --> 00:36:02,200
Speaker 2: I usually like it with fights or three rounds or

832
00:36:02,280 --> 00:36:04,759
Speaker 2: less because it's actually less time it takes for me

833
00:36:04,800 --> 00:36:06,040
Speaker 2: to do any kind of fight breakdown.

834
00:36:06,080 --> 00:36:09,279
Speaker 1: So I was like, great, just fifteen minutes perfect. I'll

835
00:36:09,320 --> 00:36:09,719
Speaker 1: never forget.

836
00:36:09,760 --> 00:36:11,920
Speaker 2: I was going through the tape and this was the

837
00:36:12,080 --> 00:36:15,120
Speaker 2: very first time I was watching a fighter and I

838
00:36:15,160 --> 00:36:18,200
Speaker 2: couldn't understand what they were doing. I'm like, he's obviously

839
00:36:18,239 --> 00:36:20,560
Speaker 2: got he's moving with intent there, these are all parts

840
00:36:20,600 --> 00:36:23,840
Speaker 2: of a strategy. But I could not unwrap the language

841
00:36:24,040 --> 00:36:27,399
Speaker 2: that he was trying to speak in as a sort

842
00:36:27,400 --> 00:36:29,080
Speaker 2: of a way to put it. And it only took

843
00:36:29,120 --> 00:36:32,000
Speaker 2: me multiple viewings and then like I had to take notes,

844
00:36:32,040 --> 00:36:33,920
Speaker 2: and then I began to piece together what it was

845
00:36:34,200 --> 00:36:36,239
Speaker 2: and then I finally got and I'm like, this fight

846
00:36:36,360 --> 00:36:38,040
Speaker 2: was close in the sense that one guy won two

847
00:36:38,160 --> 00:36:41,600
Speaker 2: rounds one guy won one. Sure, okay, fair enough, but

848
00:36:41,719 --> 00:36:44,439
Speaker 2: this fight is not close in the sense of who

849
00:36:44,520 --> 00:36:48,280
Speaker 2: is doing something generally speaking, that is not just outside

850
00:36:48,280 --> 00:36:50,160
Speaker 2: of what his peers at one eighty five are doing,

851
00:36:50,600 --> 00:36:53,279
Speaker 2: but the entire sport. If you can build on that

852
00:36:53,480 --> 00:36:56,040
Speaker 2: thing he was showing, man, you're gonna.

853
00:36:55,840 --> 00:36:56,759
Speaker 1: Be able to do a lot with it.

854
00:36:57,040 --> 00:36:59,839
Speaker 2: The Silver fight was not the best showcase because all

855
00:36:59,880 --> 00:37:02,560
Speaker 2: that skill is also married BC. If there is any

856
00:37:02,640 --> 00:37:05,320
Speaker 2: kind of knock on out of signing from an entertainment standpoint,

857
00:37:05,560 --> 00:37:08,080
Speaker 2: it's that sometimes he'll give you whittaker, but he also

858
00:37:08,320 --> 00:37:13,040
Speaker 2: doesn't take any kind of perceived unnecessary risk. So I

859
00:37:13,120 --> 00:37:15,839
Speaker 2: did pick up on the sophistication. But you also can't

860
00:37:15,840 --> 00:37:18,000
Speaker 2: lose side of the fact that he will trade. He

861
00:37:18,080 --> 00:37:22,440
Speaker 2: will absolutely trade. He's a striker by trade. But he

862
00:37:22,560 --> 00:37:25,840
Speaker 2: is not going to do something risky or what he

863
00:37:25,960 --> 00:37:29,000
Speaker 2: perceives to be risky in pursuit of a goal. He's

864
00:37:29,000 --> 00:37:31,200
Speaker 2: going to keep things on his terms as much as

865
00:37:31,200 --> 00:37:31,560
Speaker 2: he can.

866
00:37:31,760 --> 00:37:34,440
Speaker 4: You're right, and even though he was able to turn

867
00:37:34,560 --> 00:37:36,520
Speaker 4: back a little bit of that or a lot a

868
00:37:36,560 --> 00:37:38,279
Speaker 4: bit of that in the next fight against Gaston that

869
00:37:38,280 --> 00:37:41,360
Speaker 4: we're going to get into next again that's Gasolm coming

870
00:37:41,400 --> 00:37:43,000
Speaker 4: at him. So that is to your point, you know,

871
00:37:43,239 --> 00:37:47,200
Speaker 4: Whittaker coming at him, Silva not really coming at him, right.

872
00:37:47,239 --> 00:37:49,239
Speaker 4: I mean you remember that that great moment in round three,

873
00:37:49,280 --> 00:37:51,200
Speaker 4: what you were saying, where Silva's got his back against

874
00:37:51,200 --> 00:37:53,200
Speaker 4: the cage, thinking the best thing I can do is,

875
00:37:53,280 --> 00:37:55,360
Speaker 4: you know, slower the distance here and just try to

876
00:37:55,560 --> 00:37:57,719
Speaker 4: counter this guy. And he's trying to lure out to

877
00:37:57,800 --> 00:38:00,880
Speaker 4: sign in, and he wouldn't take the bait, and so

878
00:38:01,920 --> 00:38:03,640
Speaker 4: he's not going to go out of his way to

879
00:38:03,680 --> 00:38:07,120
Speaker 4: go after it when he has the advantage, right, And

880
00:38:07,160 --> 00:38:08,840
Speaker 4: I think in this one there was certainly more to

881
00:38:08,920 --> 00:38:10,000
Speaker 4: lose than gain.

882
00:38:10,480 --> 00:38:11,919
Speaker 3: So because he was expected to win.

883
00:38:12,200 --> 00:38:14,840
Speaker 4: So I still think to some degree, Luke, there was

884
00:38:14,880 --> 00:38:17,719
Speaker 4: a reason he had pause. There was it a combination

885
00:38:17,880 --> 00:38:20,120
Speaker 4: of love and respect and you know what, I'm just

886
00:38:20,160 --> 00:38:22,920
Speaker 4: not gonna get caught with something like was this fight harder.

887
00:38:22,640 --> 00:38:24,520
Speaker 3: Than it should have been? Then?

888
00:38:24,600 --> 00:38:26,600
Speaker 4: He thought it was certainly, because let's not forget two

889
00:38:26,680 --> 00:38:28,680
Speaker 4: year break for Anderson, we had no idea what we

890
00:38:28,680 --> 00:38:29,600
Speaker 4: were getting from here.

891
00:38:29,719 --> 00:38:34,200
Speaker 2: Right, Was it harder than it should have been? He

892
00:38:34,280 --> 00:38:37,959
Speaker 2: put more, he put more safeguards into it than maybe

893
00:38:38,000 --> 00:38:42,120
Speaker 2: he needed to, which I think slowed it down. I

894
00:38:42,120 --> 00:38:44,360
Speaker 2: don't think he thought it was hard in that sense,

895
00:38:44,960 --> 00:38:46,960
Speaker 2: just that he was only going to work within a very,

896
00:38:47,360 --> 00:38:50,279
Speaker 2: relatively speaking, a narrow set of parameters.

897
00:38:50,480 --> 00:38:52,680
Speaker 1: You know, I think that's really what welt. We limited him.

898
00:38:52,719 --> 00:38:55,200
Speaker 2: But it's been part of the story where again, every

899
00:38:55,200 --> 00:38:56,919
Speaker 2: time you think he's going to, you know, have that

900
00:38:57,719 --> 00:39:00,200
Speaker 2: dagger in the heart to his critics about all.

901
00:39:00,000 --> 00:39:01,600
Speaker 1: Well he's good, but he's overrated.

902
00:39:02,080 --> 00:39:04,480
Speaker 2: He has one of these moments that's kind of perceived

903
00:39:04,480 --> 00:39:06,680
Speaker 2: to be whether that's fair, that's not a bit of

904
00:39:06,719 --> 00:39:09,759
Speaker 2: a hiccup. Now, BC, we got to go to you

905
00:39:09,840 --> 00:39:12,960
Speaker 2: on this one. Let me just say the date, thirteen

906
00:39:13,000 --> 00:39:16,960
Speaker 2: of April twenty nineteen. It's Atlanta, Georgia. This is the

907
00:39:17,000 --> 00:39:19,560
Speaker 2: co main event main event Max Holloway and Dustin Poier

908
00:39:19,640 --> 00:39:22,480
Speaker 2: for the interim lightweight Your co main event is Rue

909
00:39:22,520 --> 00:39:27,400
Speaker 2: Attasanya taking on Kelvin Gastolum for the interim middleweight title.

910
00:39:27,640 --> 00:39:31,000
Speaker 2: You were there, Imagine someone is not. They're hearing us

911
00:39:31,000 --> 00:39:35,040
Speaker 2: talk about Attasanya set the stage, set the stakes for

912
00:39:35,120 --> 00:39:36,000
Speaker 2: this epic matchup.

913
00:39:36,080 --> 00:39:38,080
Speaker 4: Well, I could not sit the stage any better than

914
00:39:38,120 --> 00:39:41,600
Speaker 4: wearing this ridiculous orange pullover Luke, which was the same

915
00:39:41,680 --> 00:39:43,640
Speaker 4: shirt I wore cage side that night, and.

916
00:39:43,600 --> 00:39:45,399
Speaker 3: You can go watch the tape and see me there.

917
00:39:45,920 --> 00:39:47,640
Speaker 4: So I bring it out whenever we talk out of

918
00:39:47,680 --> 00:39:50,680
Speaker 4: Sonia to remember, yeah, this is where was I UFC

919
00:39:50,719 --> 00:39:51,359
Speaker 4: two thirty six.

920
00:39:51,400 --> 00:39:54,240
Speaker 3: It's a you know, where was I sitting? What'll I remember?

921
00:39:54,400 --> 00:39:55,479
Speaker 3: This is the greatest fight I've.

922
00:39:55,400 --> 00:39:58,240
Speaker 4: Ever seen a person boxing or MMA, or even greatest

923
00:39:58,239 --> 00:40:00,800
Speaker 4: moment considering I've sent been to some insane pro wrestling

924
00:40:00,840 --> 00:40:02,320
Speaker 4: shows which I know you care nothing.

925
00:40:02,160 --> 00:40:05,280
Speaker 3: About, but look, this is it. This was the crown Drool.

926
00:40:05,640 --> 00:40:10,160
Speaker 4: This was a frickin' war, but it was a seesaw battle.

927
00:40:10,160 --> 00:40:13,040
Speaker 4: There were ebbs and flaw flows, there were near finishes,

928
00:40:13,280 --> 00:40:15,600
Speaker 4: there were huge amounts of courage shown.

929
00:40:15,960 --> 00:40:17,520
Speaker 3: And that's again just the comin event.

930
00:40:17,520 --> 00:40:20,279
Speaker 4: I actually packaged this, of course with Holloway Pourier in

931
00:40:20,360 --> 00:40:22,480
Speaker 4: the main event, which was a thriller itself that doesn't

932
00:40:22,480 --> 00:40:22,719
Speaker 4: get the.

933
00:40:22,760 --> 00:40:25,600
Speaker 3: Respect because of how great this comane was.

934
00:40:26,080 --> 00:40:28,319
Speaker 4: Whittaker had pulled out of that gasoline fight, which of

935
00:40:28,320 --> 00:40:30,920
Speaker 4: course allowed Adasania to be the main event in the

936
00:40:30,920 --> 00:40:33,120
Speaker 4: previous pay per view, and now we just didn't know

937
00:40:33,160 --> 00:40:34,839
Speaker 4: when he went or if he was coming back, Luke.

938
00:40:34,920 --> 00:40:37,480
Speaker 3: So this was dialed up for the interim title. And

939
00:40:37,520 --> 00:40:38,959
Speaker 3: you know what we got here, the.

940
00:40:38,840 --> 00:40:41,319
Speaker 4: Best version of Kelvin Gastolon that there ever was and

941
00:40:41,360 --> 00:40:43,560
Speaker 4: maybe that there ever will be. And Gasolm had been

942
00:40:43,840 --> 00:40:46,160
Speaker 4: so up and down, inconsistent a lot of what he

943
00:40:46,280 --> 00:40:47,080
Speaker 4: still is today.

944
00:40:47,160 --> 00:40:49,760
Speaker 3: Luke, this was the night he put it all together.

945
00:40:50,239 --> 00:40:52,480
Speaker 3: He had a hunger and a fire that he.

946
00:40:52,440 --> 00:40:54,359
Speaker 4: Wasn't going to back down no matter what was thrown

947
00:40:54,400 --> 00:40:57,319
Speaker 4: his way, and he had angles and quickness on that

948
00:40:57,440 --> 00:40:59,600
Speaker 4: explosion that he does to come in and set up

949
00:40:59,600 --> 00:41:02,880
Speaker 4: the left hand where he was finding success. It was

950
00:41:03,000 --> 00:41:05,560
Speaker 4: early that we realized, Luke, that this is brewing into

951
00:41:05,560 --> 00:41:09,080
Speaker 4: something special. This is an absolute war, and you want

952
00:41:09,080 --> 00:41:12,120
Speaker 4: to talk about the questions that Audasanya has to answer.

953
00:41:12,440 --> 00:41:15,640
Speaker 4: It wasn't just enough to have the hiccup against a Tory,

954
00:41:15,960 --> 00:41:18,440
Speaker 4: but really prove it against Brunson that you're not going

955
00:41:18,440 --> 00:41:20,480
Speaker 4: to take this guy down if you're a wrestler and

956
00:41:20,600 --> 00:41:24,640
Speaker 4: manhandle him and have your way, okay. Then he had

957
00:41:24,680 --> 00:41:26,839
Speaker 4: to prove right against Tavares they can go five rounds

958
00:41:26,880 --> 00:41:28,680
Speaker 4: and be a headliner and control a fight. Then he

959
00:41:28,680 --> 00:41:30,399
Speaker 4: had to prove against Silva in a lot of ways,

960
00:41:30,480 --> 00:41:33,480
Speaker 4: Luke and his pay per view headlining opportunity that he

961
00:41:33,480 --> 00:41:36,040
Speaker 4: could go out on a big stage and carry it,

962
00:41:36,080 --> 00:41:37,759
Speaker 4: and that's something we thought maybe he did a little

963
00:41:37,840 --> 00:41:40,600
Speaker 4: questionably and now we had to find out if he

964
00:41:40,640 --> 00:41:43,759
Speaker 4: can go to hell. And what I love about interviewing

965
00:41:43,800 --> 00:41:46,200
Speaker 4: aud Asanya sensed this fight is I always ask him

966
00:41:46,200 --> 00:41:48,760
Speaker 4: about this fight and the gist of what he often

967
00:41:48,800 --> 00:41:51,600
Speaker 4: says to me Luke is that he didn't actually know

968
00:41:52,160 --> 00:41:54,279
Speaker 4: how much he had in the tank in terms of,

969
00:41:54,320 --> 00:41:56,200
Speaker 4: you know, can I go five rounds in a life

970
00:41:56,280 --> 00:41:58,680
Speaker 4: and death battle until he got there.

971
00:41:58,680 --> 00:41:59,720
Speaker 3: And I think that's realistic.

972
00:42:00,120 --> 00:42:03,200
Speaker 4: Us really know how tough we are until we're absolutely tested.

973
00:42:03,239 --> 00:42:06,480
Speaker 4: There's certain things that you can't fake or recreate in

974
00:42:06,560 --> 00:42:09,360
Speaker 4: training camp or whatever. And he says that, you know,

975
00:42:09,400 --> 00:42:11,960
Speaker 4: when he got to those fight or flight moments, he

976
00:42:12,040 --> 00:42:15,200
Speaker 4: was shocked at how much gas he had in the

977
00:42:15,239 --> 00:42:17,960
Speaker 4: tank and how much just focus he had, at how

978
00:42:18,040 --> 00:42:20,960
Speaker 4: much killer instinct he had. Luke, when he was tested

979
00:42:21,000 --> 00:42:24,759
Speaker 4: to the ultimate degree here, he realized he was even

980
00:42:24,760 --> 00:42:26,400
Speaker 4: better than he thought he was. And that sounds like

981
00:42:26,440 --> 00:42:30,319
Speaker 4: some you know, sports movie rudy bullshit, but it's a

982
00:42:30,360 --> 00:42:32,960
Speaker 4: real key into figuring out how great this guy is

983
00:42:33,000 --> 00:42:35,120
Speaker 4: and what his potential is and why we can favor

984
00:42:35,200 --> 00:42:37,279
Speaker 4: him against the light heavyweight champion, and why we can

985
00:42:37,320 --> 00:42:39,520
Speaker 4: talk about things like going up to heavyweight and not

986
00:42:39,680 --> 00:42:42,200
Speaker 4: laugh at it. It's moments like this in this fight

987
00:42:42,239 --> 00:42:46,560
Speaker 4: when he had to raise the bar several times because Gastolum,

988
00:42:46,840 --> 00:42:48,880
Speaker 4: who somehow doesn't get the credit he deserves in this

989
00:42:48,920 --> 00:42:52,240
Speaker 4: fight Luke, he fought like a world champion and kept coming,

990
00:42:52,560 --> 00:42:55,160
Speaker 4: and there was that scare with the some near submission

991
00:42:55,160 --> 00:42:55,799
Speaker 4: attempt to lay.

992
00:42:55,800 --> 00:42:57,120
Speaker 3: I mean, there was a lot of.

993
00:42:57,120 --> 00:42:59,960
Speaker 4: Drama going on in this fight until that last round

994
00:43:00,080 --> 00:43:02,319
Speaker 4: on the second half of it when out Asania was

995
00:43:02,360 --> 00:43:03,479
Speaker 4: putting it on him.

996
00:43:04,719 --> 00:43:07,000
Speaker 3: Very few people, Luke, can go through a war like

997
00:43:07,040 --> 00:43:07,719
Speaker 3: that and be.

998
00:43:10,080 --> 00:43:13,399
Speaker 4: In that much control at the end, and very few

999
00:43:13,400 --> 00:43:17,239
Speaker 4: guys who are known more as artists or strikers in

1000
00:43:17,239 --> 00:43:19,439
Speaker 4: a sense that they can only be at their best

1001
00:43:19,440 --> 00:43:20,880
Speaker 4: when they're controlling the terms.

1002
00:43:20,880 --> 00:43:23,759
Speaker 3: And a lot of out of Sonya's success is like that.

1003
00:43:24,080 --> 00:43:24,879
Speaker 3: This wasn't like that.

1004
00:43:24,920 --> 00:43:26,160
Speaker 4: This is one of the fights where he had to

1005
00:43:26,160 --> 00:43:29,759
Speaker 4: dig in and absolutely fight for his life and to

1006
00:43:29,800 --> 00:43:30,840
Speaker 4: find out he's better.

1007
00:43:30,680 --> 00:43:31,440
Speaker 3: Than we thought he was.

1008
00:43:31,480 --> 00:43:35,880
Speaker 4: In that moment, Luke, Like Ei, there's many aha moments

1009
00:43:35,960 --> 00:43:39,040
Speaker 4: of what we have here in this guy. Good God

1010
00:43:39,160 --> 00:43:41,239
Speaker 4: to this moment tell me a lot about what this

1011
00:43:41,280 --> 00:43:42,000
Speaker 4: man was made of.

1012
00:43:42,040 --> 00:43:43,160
Speaker 3: Because cage sided.

1013
00:43:43,160 --> 00:43:45,480
Speaker 4: It was one of those fights where every strike during

1014
00:43:45,640 --> 00:43:48,560
Speaker 4: those chaoto exsit you know sequences, you're just like, oh

1015
00:43:48,600 --> 00:43:52,120
Speaker 4: my god, and this is the guy who's saying, come on,

1016
00:43:52,239 --> 00:43:54,799
Speaker 4: come on, bring it to me. I still love this

1017
00:43:54,960 --> 00:43:58,279
Speaker 4: performance out of him because I didn't know he had it, Luke,

1018
00:43:58,480 --> 00:44:00,400
Speaker 4: and I didn't know he would have had to have

1019
00:44:00,480 --> 00:44:02,920
Speaker 4: had it in this spot, but Gasola one made him

1020
00:44:02,920 --> 00:44:03,319
Speaker 4: bring it.

1021
00:44:03,520 --> 00:44:05,000
Speaker 3: And you want to talk about activity.

1022
00:44:05,040 --> 00:44:07,720
Speaker 4: Look, we are now fourteen months into his UFC career

1023
00:44:07,880 --> 00:44:09,480
Speaker 4: and this is what his seventh fight.

1024
00:44:09,760 --> 00:44:13,760
Speaker 2: This is insane and at that point he had captured

1025
00:44:13,760 --> 00:44:16,000
Speaker 2: a title. Now it's the interim title, but he has

1026
00:44:16,000 --> 00:44:18,160
Speaker 2: a belt around his waist. The thing that sticks out

1027
00:44:18,160 --> 00:44:21,200
Speaker 2: for me about this fight, BC is you're right. So

1028
00:44:21,320 --> 00:44:24,279
Speaker 2: Gasol by most accounts won the first out to sign

1029
00:44:24,360 --> 00:44:27,040
Speaker 2: you by most accounts, won the second and third, Gasoline

1030
00:44:27,040 --> 00:44:29,520
Speaker 2: won the fourth, even rocking him at that point.

1031
00:44:29,920 --> 00:44:32,080
Speaker 1: But then they go to the fifth and it was.

1032
00:44:32,040 --> 00:44:34,160
Speaker 2: Between the fourth and the fifth that they get the

1033
00:44:34,200 --> 00:44:36,399
Speaker 2: camera on out of Signya's face and you can hear him.

1034
00:44:36,400 --> 00:44:39,160
Speaker 2: Before the bell rings to start the fifth round, he

1035
00:44:39,320 --> 00:44:41,880
Speaker 2: sort of looks over the other corner and says, I.

1036
00:44:42,400 --> 00:44:45,040
Speaker 1: Think I'm either ready or I'm prepared to die. You know.

1037
00:44:45,080 --> 00:44:47,520
Speaker 2: He actually mouthed it out loud. And that was when

1038
00:44:47,560 --> 00:44:50,280
Speaker 2: it was gut check moment. Fights up for grabs. Whoever

1039
00:44:50,360 --> 00:44:52,880
Speaker 2: wins this takes the whole thing. And one guy just

1040
00:44:52,920 --> 00:44:55,920
Speaker 2: said I wanted a little bit more, and he showed flair,

1041
00:44:56,400 --> 00:45:00,640
Speaker 2: finishing ability, poise Cardio. He'd been really busted up in

1042
00:45:00,680 --> 00:45:02,880
Speaker 2: this fight. His face was already swelling, was a mess

1043
00:45:03,120 --> 00:45:04,920
Speaker 2: by the time he wanted to talk to people the

1044
00:45:04,960 --> 00:45:08,120
Speaker 2: media afterwards. That is what I remember when his back

1045
00:45:08,200 --> 00:45:10,400
Speaker 2: was up against the wall. Wasn't that he was you know,

1046
00:45:10,840 --> 00:45:12,920
Speaker 2: guys couldn't win rounds from him, they had but to

1047
00:45:12,920 --> 00:45:16,120
Speaker 2: already had. But it was can you really can you

1048
00:45:16,200 --> 00:45:18,040
Speaker 2: really put it on him over the course of time,

1049
00:45:18,360 --> 00:45:20,480
Speaker 2: and he simply did not allow that. It was that

1050
00:45:20,560 --> 00:45:23,280
Speaker 2: was a truly I don't mean this in the sense

1051
00:45:23,320 --> 00:45:25,399
Speaker 2: of fire or police, but in terms of the realm

1052
00:45:25,480 --> 00:45:26,200
Speaker 2: of athletics.

1053
00:45:26,600 --> 00:45:30,720
Speaker 1: That was a heroic performance. Truly, No, his heroic performance.

1054
00:45:30,680 --> 00:45:33,040
Speaker 4: I really, if you haven't seen this fighter, looked it

1055
00:45:33,120 --> 00:45:34,960
Speaker 4: up a while. Just look up the postfight picture that

1056
00:45:34,960 --> 00:45:38,719
Speaker 4: we we just talked about. Look at his face. He's deformed, Luke.

1057
00:45:38,800 --> 00:45:42,200
Speaker 4: I mean, he went through hell, there's no question about it.

1058
00:45:42,280 --> 00:45:45,040
Speaker 4: And to mention him getting rocked in round four, I

1059
00:45:45,080 --> 00:45:46,880
Speaker 4: thought he was on his way out in those moments,

1060
00:45:46,880 --> 00:45:49,520
Speaker 4: you know, you were like, man, he he really showed

1061
00:45:49,520 --> 00:45:52,120
Speaker 4: a backbone for a pretty fighter, right, he really.

1062
00:45:51,840 --> 00:45:53,400
Speaker 3: Went in there against Gastolon.

1063
00:45:53,480 --> 00:45:55,640
Speaker 4: But he's going to get stopped now, this is too

1064
00:45:55,719 --> 00:45:58,400
Speaker 4: much for him to take, right, No, he had that

1065
00:45:58,440 --> 00:46:01,080
Speaker 4: extra gear into what you said about five man, it

1066
00:46:01,120 --> 00:46:03,520
Speaker 4: was almost a sadistic love for what he was doing.

1067
00:46:03,880 --> 00:46:06,200
Speaker 4: And you know, crazy enough to say you need that,

1068
00:46:06,280 --> 00:46:08,200
Speaker 4: you need that to be able to be able to

1069
00:46:08,320 --> 00:46:11,479
Speaker 4: fend off these sharks at this level. Again, I'm never look,

1070
00:46:11,520 --> 00:46:15,040
Speaker 4: I'll never be afraid to echo what you just said.

1071
00:46:15,080 --> 00:46:18,440
Speaker 4: Like just a heroic, ridiculous performance that night from him.

1072
00:46:18,680 --> 00:46:20,560
Speaker 2: Now he gets a little bit of a break from

1073
00:46:20,600 --> 00:46:23,160
Speaker 2: that one. Usually these fights are taking place BC every

1074
00:46:23,200 --> 00:46:26,040
Speaker 2: three months, every two months, you know, a crazy clip.

1075
00:46:26,080 --> 00:46:27,800
Speaker 2: And now he gets about six months off, which I

1076
00:46:27,840 --> 00:46:31,640
Speaker 2: think he really needed after that contest. But this time

1077
00:46:32,440 --> 00:46:35,360
Speaker 2: it's back to the Oceanic region. We are now on

1078
00:46:35,440 --> 00:46:39,600
Speaker 2: the sixth of October twenty nineteen, back in Melbourne, Australia,

1079
00:46:40,000 --> 00:46:42,520
Speaker 2: and now they're trying to unify the light excuse me,

1080
00:46:42,560 --> 00:46:46,080
Speaker 2: the unified the unified I should say, unify the interim

1081
00:46:46,280 --> 00:46:48,279
Speaker 2: and then the regular titles. But Robert Whitaker was an

1082
00:46:48,280 --> 00:46:51,279
Speaker 2: interesting place. He was the reigning champion at that point, BC,

1083
00:46:51,400 --> 00:46:54,359
Speaker 2: but he was also an interesting place just before it

1084
00:46:54,400 --> 00:46:56,880
Speaker 2: because he had the two wins over Romero, but they

1085
00:46:56,920 --> 00:46:59,279
Speaker 2: were from twenty seventeen to twenty eighteen. He hadn't fought

1086
00:46:59,320 --> 00:47:02,120
Speaker 2: at all in twenty nineteen. He had lost tons of

1087
00:47:02,120 --> 00:47:05,200
Speaker 2: time and there were two questions basically heading into this fight.

1088
00:47:05,400 --> 00:47:08,000
Speaker 2: Was he shop worn by Romero? What was the time

1089
00:47:08,080 --> 00:47:10,520
Speaker 2: off going to do? But I have to tell you, BC,

1090
00:47:10,760 --> 00:47:14,760
Speaker 2: even with all those questions, I had so many people

1091
00:47:14,880 --> 00:47:17,480
Speaker 2: telling me Whittaker was going to sleep this guy, that

1092
00:47:17,560 --> 00:47:22,600
Speaker 2: this was going to be finally all the hype. Okay, yeah,

1093
00:47:22,600 --> 00:47:25,440
Speaker 2: the gasoline fight was nice, but now you're facing the

1094
00:47:25,480 --> 00:47:30,120
Speaker 2: top level operator in the weight class. This movement, but

1095
00:47:30,200 --> 00:47:32,319
Speaker 2: out of signya is going to come crashing down. And

1096
00:47:32,400 --> 00:47:36,799
Speaker 2: as we said at the Brunson fight. Every time they

1097
00:47:36,920 --> 00:47:40,120
Speaker 2: keep escalating this guy's challenges, he keeps finding ways to

1098
00:47:40,120 --> 00:47:42,040
Speaker 2: do it better and better, making this, frankly one of

1099
00:47:42,080 --> 00:47:44,440
Speaker 2: his easiest fights in his UFC history.

1100
00:47:45,040 --> 00:47:47,520
Speaker 4: Yes, which is wild, And again, I don't know if

1101
00:47:47,560 --> 00:47:51,920
Speaker 4: we're fully gonna know looking back how compromised Robert Whitaker was,

1102
00:47:52,440 --> 00:47:54,759
Speaker 4: or if this is just how great out of Sonya was.

1103
00:47:54,800 --> 00:47:57,479
Speaker 4: Maybe unless they fight each other again, or unless Robert

1104
00:47:57,480 --> 00:47:59,120
Speaker 4: Whitaker continues this run.

1105
00:47:59,120 --> 00:48:01,239
Speaker 3: He's on of of win since that fight.

1106
00:48:01,280 --> 00:48:04,920
Speaker 4: But it wasn't wrong to consider Whittaker the boss at

1107
00:48:04,920 --> 00:48:07,080
Speaker 4: the end of the video game, to say, like Adisandi,

1108
00:48:07,120 --> 00:48:08,759
Speaker 4: you had a hell of a run, you run the

1109
00:48:09,239 --> 00:48:12,719
Speaker 4: interim title. You're showing us so many almost all time

1110
00:48:12,800 --> 00:48:16,040
Speaker 4: great qualities, right, yet you're not the real champion yet,

1111
00:48:16,320 --> 00:48:18,160
Speaker 4: And it just so happens that the real champion is

1112
00:48:18,200 --> 00:48:21,439
Speaker 4: an absolute complete fighter and a killer in Whittaker. Look,

1113
00:48:21,440 --> 00:48:24,359
Speaker 4: I remember Whittaker was the betting favorite. That's correct, right,

1114
00:48:24,600 --> 00:48:25,920
Speaker 4: because I remember he deserved to be.

1115
00:48:26,040 --> 00:48:27,799
Speaker 1: I would double check that while you ask.

1116
00:48:28,040 --> 00:48:30,279
Speaker 3: I remember feeling at least that he deserved to be.

1117
00:48:30,400 --> 00:48:33,040
Speaker 4: He was a more well rounded fighter, He was tough

1118
00:48:33,080 --> 00:48:36,280
Speaker 4: as nails, from those Romero fights. But yes, the questions

1119
00:48:36,280 --> 00:48:39,040
Speaker 4: about him were certainly there, although we didn't know at

1120
00:48:39,080 --> 00:48:42,680
Speaker 4: this point Luke, that we knew after that he had

1121
00:48:42,760 --> 00:48:45,040
Speaker 4: sort of lost the love for the game during the stretch.

1122
00:48:45,080 --> 00:48:46,120
Speaker 3: It was a lot more.

1123
00:48:45,920 --> 00:48:48,600
Speaker 4: Mental than even it was physical, and some of his

1124
00:48:48,719 --> 00:48:51,560
Speaker 4: breakdowns from you know, running ragged in terms of training.

1125
00:48:51,640 --> 00:48:53,120
Speaker 1: Yes, and Whitaker was the favorite.

1126
00:48:53,200 --> 00:48:55,759
Speaker 4: Yes, and you know, look, there were also kind of

1127
00:48:55,840 --> 00:48:57,960
Speaker 4: questions about at Asnia. Look for everything great I just

1128
00:48:58,000 --> 00:49:00,719
Speaker 4: said about that performance against Gastellum. There are a lot

1129
00:49:00,760 --> 00:49:03,440
Speaker 4: of people today who don't love Gastolam, who say, you know,

1130
00:49:03,520 --> 00:49:05,560
Speaker 4: you kind of let that guy drag you into life

1131
00:49:05,680 --> 00:49:08,680
Speaker 4: or death and you just barely beat him.

1132
00:49:09,719 --> 00:49:11,279
Speaker 3: Does that say something about who he is?

1133
00:49:11,320 --> 00:49:13,800
Speaker 4: Shouldn't even shouldn't he have been able to slice through

1134
00:49:14,480 --> 00:49:17,680
Speaker 4: you know, Gastolum easier kid, considering the praise he's getting,

1135
00:49:17,680 --> 00:49:19,640
Speaker 4: So I think there were equal questions coming in.

1136
00:49:20,200 --> 00:49:22,040
Speaker 3: And to see him do it as clean.

1137
00:49:21,800 --> 00:49:24,399
Speaker 4: As he did, I still almost don't believe this fight

1138
00:49:24,480 --> 00:49:27,240
Speaker 4: happened because he made it look easy.

1139
00:49:28,040 --> 00:49:28,640
Speaker 3: Luke and VC.

1140
00:49:28,920 --> 00:49:33,400
Speaker 4: I mean it was just Luke. He sliced right friggin

1141
00:49:33,600 --> 00:49:36,040
Speaker 4: through him. Yeah, it was tense for a while, but

1142
00:49:36,160 --> 00:49:38,680
Speaker 4: the timing and the setup on those punches and the

1143
00:49:38,880 --> 00:49:43,399
Speaker 4: power being that real huge eye opener for as much

1144
00:49:43,440 --> 00:49:46,040
Speaker 4: as he was already escalating and raising the levels of

1145
00:49:46,120 --> 00:49:49,839
Speaker 4: his ceiling in future. Luke, you're talking about a guy

1146
00:49:50,040 --> 00:49:52,640
Speaker 4: who is now seven and zero in the UFC and

1147
00:49:52,719 --> 00:49:54,960
Speaker 4: the span of a year and a half going from

1148
00:49:55,040 --> 00:49:57,920
Speaker 4: most people had never heard him to kind of one

1149
00:49:57,960 --> 00:50:01,360
Speaker 4: punch knocking out of the three or four best fighters

1150
00:50:01,400 --> 00:50:05,800
Speaker 4: in the world to claim that division's championship. I still

1151
00:50:05,840 --> 00:50:08,759
Speaker 4: will go to my grave saying all you media members

1152
00:50:08,800 --> 00:50:10,799
Speaker 4: out there who voted for Jorge mosmitt All for your

1153
00:50:10,840 --> 00:50:13,879
Speaker 4: Fighter of the Year in twenty nineteen, can you set

1154
00:50:13,960 --> 00:50:15,520
Speaker 4: up fruit basket to New Zealand?

1155
00:50:15,640 --> 00:50:17,200
Speaker 3: Can we do something for out a sign of you here?

1156
00:50:17,200 --> 00:50:19,520
Speaker 4: Because you screwed that guy out of what he deserved,

1157
00:50:19,640 --> 00:50:22,960
Speaker 4: beating Anderson Silva, going life or death with Gastolum for

1158
00:50:23,000 --> 00:50:25,759
Speaker 4: the interim title and then knocking out Robert Whitaker in

1159
00:50:25,800 --> 00:50:29,320
Speaker 4: the same calendar year. Seriously, show me a better year

1160
00:50:29,360 --> 00:50:32,560
Speaker 4: in UFC history than that. It's like John Jones and

1161
00:50:32,840 --> 00:50:34,359
Speaker 4: somebody else, right, that's it.

1162
00:50:34,480 --> 00:50:35,920
Speaker 3: I mean, this is insane.

1163
00:50:36,680 --> 00:50:39,919
Speaker 2: I mean, understand one of the narratives that came out

1164
00:50:40,000 --> 00:50:42,479
Speaker 2: of the fight with Gaslam at UFC two thirty six,

1165
00:50:42,520 --> 00:50:45,040
Speaker 2: it was that, okay, to your point, BC, all right,

1166
00:50:45,080 --> 00:50:47,040
Speaker 2: all right, my man can go along. He's obviously got

1167
00:50:47,040 --> 00:50:49,640
Speaker 2: some skills, Okay, fair enough, blah blah blah, but that

1168
00:50:49,719 --> 00:50:50,400
Speaker 2: he was hittable.

1169
00:50:50,840 --> 00:50:51,839
Speaker 1: He was hitable in this fight.

1170
00:50:51,920 --> 00:50:54,360
Speaker 2: And to be fair, this was a fight in the

1171
00:50:54,360 --> 00:50:56,520
Speaker 2: fight with Gaslum where he did get tagged a bit.

1172
00:50:56,560 --> 00:50:59,560
Speaker 2: We're referencing how deformed his face was. Now it turns

1173
00:50:59,560 --> 00:51:02,520
Speaker 2: out in the tenure of his UFC fights that is

1174
00:51:02,560 --> 00:51:05,120
Speaker 2: the outlier, but that was the most recent one at

1175
00:51:05,160 --> 00:51:07,719
Speaker 2: the time, and you were like, aha, okay. So as

1176
00:51:07,760 --> 00:51:10,040
Speaker 2: he you know, moves up the chain. He does have

1177
00:51:10,080 --> 00:51:11,360
Speaker 2: some nice skills.

1178
00:51:11,200 --> 00:51:12,799
Speaker 1: But eventually someone's gonna put it on him.

1179
00:51:12,800 --> 00:51:16,040
Speaker 2: And Robert has this blitzing style with a sophisticated timing,

1180
00:51:16,160 --> 00:51:18,560
Speaker 2: and you know he's fresh, and you know they're gonna

1181
00:51:18,560 --> 00:51:21,200
Speaker 2: be in Australia. And by the way, we're sleeping on

1182
00:51:21,239 --> 00:51:23,120
Speaker 2: the fact that this fight did take place in Australia.

1183
00:51:23,480 --> 00:51:25,759
Speaker 2: You know, when Atasanya is sort of the hometown guy,

1184
00:51:25,760 --> 00:51:27,799
Speaker 2: Althoway's from New Zealand, I get, you know, but the

1185
00:51:27,840 --> 00:51:29,960
Speaker 2: Oceanic region shares a little bit of brotherhood.

1186
00:51:29,960 --> 00:51:31,880
Speaker 1: From what I can tell, he would get cheered. He

1187
00:51:31,920 --> 00:51:34,880
Speaker 1: got cheered in his Wilkinson debut, for example, but he

1188
00:51:35,000 --> 00:51:36,919
Speaker 1: was the enemy here. He was the one.

1189
00:51:36,960 --> 00:51:38,680
Speaker 2: And by the way, we're not even talking about it.

1190
00:51:39,080 --> 00:51:41,320
Speaker 2: This is the one where he came out and danced

1191
00:51:41,760 --> 00:51:44,839
Speaker 2: in front of a crowd at Marvel Stadium, in front

1192
00:51:44,840 --> 00:51:47,840
Speaker 2: of what seventy thousand people or something. He had a

1193
00:51:47,920 --> 00:51:50,560
Speaker 2: crew of dance or dance guys with him. They did

1194
00:51:50,560 --> 00:51:53,440
Speaker 2: a short routine. Then he walks out there.

1195
00:51:54,160 --> 00:51:57,799
Speaker 1: And does this like incredible performance. Dude. You know he

1196
00:51:57,880 --> 00:51:59,719
Speaker 1: wasn't down, but I was thinking about that.

1197
00:51:59,760 --> 00:52:00,960
Speaker 2: I was like, dude, that is one of the most

1198
00:52:01,040 --> 00:52:06,600
Speaker 2: incredible performances before the cage, the cage, the whole nine yards.

1199
00:52:06,320 --> 00:52:10,920
Speaker 2: This guy is unapologetic about who he is, totally unapologetic.

1200
00:52:11,000 --> 00:52:13,280
Speaker 2: I have a style that I fight in and sometimes

1201
00:52:13,320 --> 00:52:15,719
Speaker 2: you might get an Anderson Silva or Joel Romero, but

1202
00:52:15,800 --> 00:52:18,000
Speaker 2: sometimes you're gonna get this, and I make no apologies

1203
00:52:18,040 --> 00:52:18,359
Speaker 2: for it.

1204
00:52:18,640 --> 00:52:19,600
Speaker 1: I have the things that.

1205
00:52:19,560 --> 00:52:22,440
Speaker 2: I like anime and blah blah blah, and then dancing

1206
00:52:22,760 --> 00:52:25,759
Speaker 2: and then to be at ease BC to then go

1207
00:52:25,800 --> 00:52:28,920
Speaker 2: and execute it. That was that moment you were like, dude, okay,

1208
00:52:28,960 --> 00:52:30,600
Speaker 2: notly is he the champion? Now?

1209
00:52:31,080 --> 00:52:31,600
Speaker 3: Is he the.

1210
00:52:31,680 --> 00:52:34,000
Speaker 1: Face of the UFC? Is this is this the new

1211
00:52:34,000 --> 00:52:35,040
Speaker 1: hotness in MMA?

1212
00:52:35,120 --> 00:52:37,000
Speaker 4: I love that you said that because it was so

1213
00:52:37,120 --> 00:52:39,439
Speaker 4: surprising that he did it with that level of ease.

1214
00:52:39,560 --> 00:52:43,120
Speaker 4: Nobody does that to Robert Whitaker, like it's insane that

1215
00:52:43,480 --> 00:52:45,919
Speaker 4: you had to recalibrate. I think this was the fight

1216
00:52:45,960 --> 00:52:47,840
Speaker 4: he started to get the idea that he could be

1217
00:52:47,880 --> 00:52:49,680
Speaker 4: your pomp for Palm King and there'd be no argument

1218
00:52:50,000 --> 00:52:53,279
Speaker 4: despite Habib and John Jones still being there because he

1219
00:52:53,400 --> 00:52:55,799
Speaker 4: just made such a fricking leave. But yeah, to the

1220
00:52:55,840 --> 00:52:59,760
Speaker 4: global superstardom thing again, something he still hasn't fully walked into.

1221
00:53:00,239 --> 00:53:02,959
Speaker 4: This was a major moment forward, And I like Luke

1222
00:53:03,120 --> 00:53:05,600
Speaker 4: that he's always able to live on that line between

1223
00:53:06,080 --> 00:53:09,480
Speaker 4: from a marketable standpoint, hero and villain just by being himself,

1224
00:53:09,560 --> 00:53:12,040
Speaker 4: not caring if you like me for this part of

1225
00:53:12,040 --> 00:53:14,719
Speaker 4: my game or my personality, but this part of.

1226
00:53:14,680 --> 00:53:16,040
Speaker 3: It creeps you out or annoys you.

1227
00:53:16,239 --> 00:53:18,120
Speaker 4: It's like when I send you those videos of him

1228
00:53:18,120 --> 00:53:21,120
Speaker 4: with his dogs on Instagram and he's touching their Johnson

1229
00:53:21,160 --> 00:53:23,359
Speaker 4: and you're like, bro, he's a different cat, all right.

1230
00:53:23,360 --> 00:53:24,320
Speaker 3: What do you want me to do? What do you

1231
00:53:24,360 --> 00:53:25,919
Speaker 3: want me to say about it? He's a different dude,

1232
00:53:25,920 --> 00:53:26,799
Speaker 3: all right, Luke.

1233
00:53:26,800 --> 00:53:30,040
Speaker 4: He don't care and maybe that's the key for your

1234
00:53:30,040 --> 00:53:32,439
Speaker 4: long term happiness, Luke, Thomas, just be free in front

1235
00:53:32,440 --> 00:53:32,880
Speaker 4: of the camera.

1236
00:53:32,920 --> 00:53:33,800
Speaker 3: Don't care anymorey.

1237
00:53:33,920 --> 00:53:36,560
Speaker 2: I see that, certainly, it's something I aim to emulate.

1238
00:53:36,600 --> 00:53:39,960
Speaker 2: But don't you agree with me? Would he won that

1239
00:53:40,000 --> 00:53:43,279
Speaker 2: fight after the walkout being the villain dancing in front

1240
00:53:43,320 --> 00:53:45,640
Speaker 2: of everyone's face? And then just by the way, remember

1241
00:53:45,760 --> 00:53:48,000
Speaker 2: he dropped Whitaker in the first round then just finished

1242
00:53:48,040 --> 00:53:50,920
Speaker 2: him off in the second, the fight ending at three

1243
00:53:50,960 --> 00:53:53,320
Speaker 2: minutes and thirty three seconds of the second frame.

1244
00:53:53,920 --> 00:53:55,080
Speaker 1: Did you not have a sense.

1245
00:53:54,920 --> 00:53:57,640
Speaker 2: Of like, Okay, dude, this guy might be the face

1246
00:53:57,640 --> 00:53:59,520
Speaker 2: of the UFC and the Connor's still around, but I'm saying,

1247
00:53:59,520 --> 00:54:03,319
Speaker 2: like the the next truly big thing in MMA from

1248
00:54:03,320 --> 00:54:05,759
Speaker 2: a global superstar perspective.

1249
00:54:05,400 --> 00:54:06,280
Speaker 3: One hundred percent.

1250
00:54:06,360 --> 00:54:07,839
Speaker 4: And this is where you know he went back to

1251
00:54:07,880 --> 00:54:10,080
Speaker 4: the oceanic region and they made a giant pay per

1252
00:54:10,160 --> 00:54:12,200
Speaker 4: view out of it, and he, I mean, look to

1253
00:54:12,280 --> 00:54:14,719
Speaker 4: have the balls to do that kind of dance before it, Luke.

1254
00:54:15,480 --> 00:54:17,239
Speaker 3: And then back it up the way he did.

1255
00:54:17,280 --> 00:54:19,919
Speaker 4: I mean, it was like perfection where you're not only

1256
00:54:19,960 --> 00:54:22,040
Speaker 4: saying this guy could grab a mantle and be the

1257
00:54:22,040 --> 00:54:24,960
Speaker 4: face of the company. I think again, maybe that window

1258
00:54:25,040 --> 00:54:28,240
Speaker 4: started to crack open where you're saying, it's only seven

1259
00:54:28,280 --> 00:54:29,959
Speaker 4: fights in and we're a year and a half into

1260
00:54:29,960 --> 00:54:33,640
Speaker 4: his career, but is he already putting the foundation together

1261
00:54:33,960 --> 00:54:36,680
Speaker 4: of a truly all time great special career? And that's

1262
00:54:36,719 --> 00:54:39,560
Speaker 4: still an argument we're having right now two fights after

1263
00:54:39,600 --> 00:54:42,040
Speaker 4: this Luke, where you're sort of like, man, what he

1264
00:54:42,120 --> 00:54:44,120
Speaker 4: has done in this such a short period of time

1265
00:54:44,239 --> 00:54:44,960
Speaker 4: is insane.

1266
00:54:45,280 --> 00:54:46,719
Speaker 3: What if he doubles down on that?

1267
00:54:47,080 --> 00:54:49,840
Speaker 4: This again was another major step up in that where

1268
00:54:50,360 --> 00:54:52,080
Speaker 4: I don't know where the ceiling is and.

1269
00:54:52,040 --> 00:54:52,759
Speaker 3: How good he could be.

1270
00:54:53,000 --> 00:54:56,960
Speaker 4: Even going through hell against Gastolom Luke, we still thought

1271
00:54:57,480 --> 00:54:59,919
Speaker 4: with the hit ability, right, there's still a ceiling we've seen,

1272
00:55:00,480 --> 00:55:03,040
Speaker 4: but that's Sun's high. It's incredible what we've seen it.

1273
00:55:03,360 --> 00:55:05,719
Speaker 4: This reminded us that we don't know how good this

1274
00:55:05,760 --> 00:55:08,560
Speaker 4: guy is, which is what made the fight that followed

1275
00:55:08,640 --> 00:55:09,839
Speaker 4: Luke all that.

1276
00:55:12,040 --> 00:55:13,239
Speaker 1: I would like to forget it.

1277
00:55:13,320 --> 00:55:15,600
Speaker 2: I think most people would as well, including the guys

1278
00:55:15,600 --> 00:55:17,839
Speaker 2: who fought in it, which brings us to our next fight.

1279
00:55:17,920 --> 00:55:19,520
Speaker 1: Now we're in twenty twenty.

1280
00:55:19,640 --> 00:55:23,200
Speaker 2: This was just before the pandemic started BC March seventh.

1281
00:55:23,200 --> 00:55:27,279
Speaker 2: We're almost a year removed from it. UFC two forty eight.

1282
00:55:28,440 --> 00:55:31,440
Speaker 2: This is an interesting fight BC because Joel Romero did

1283
00:55:31,520 --> 00:55:33,680
Speaker 2: not deserve the title shot, but he kind of had

1284
00:55:33,719 --> 00:55:36,040
Speaker 2: this view of him where it's like, you know, you

1285
00:55:36,040 --> 00:55:38,320
Speaker 2: can make a claim that he won the second of

1286
00:55:38,360 --> 00:55:40,960
Speaker 2: the two Whitaker fights. I I've watched the fight with

1287
00:55:41,000 --> 00:55:43,319
Speaker 2: Paulo Costa a number of times. I thought he won.

1288
00:55:43,360 --> 00:55:45,319
Speaker 2: This was supposed to be you know Costa. Originally they

1289
00:55:45,360 --> 00:55:48,719
Speaker 2: couldn't do it, and hell, guy like outa sign, Yet

1290
00:55:48,760 --> 00:55:50,439
Speaker 2: you have to love He goes and beats Whittaker and says,

1291
00:55:50,520 --> 00:55:52,919
Speaker 2: I'll take on a guy who doesn't deserve the title.

1292
00:55:52,960 --> 00:55:55,440
Speaker 2: If everyone thinks that guy's the man, I'll fight that guy.

1293
00:55:55,480 --> 00:55:59,000
Speaker 2: I'll fight the man, no problem. And we were like, yes, okay,

1294
00:55:59,320 --> 00:56:04,080
Speaker 2: we RECOGNI Joel Romero doesn't deserve this opportunity, but we're

1295
00:56:04,120 --> 00:56:05,640
Speaker 2: not going to say it's a bad fight. We're not

1296
00:56:05,680 --> 00:56:07,919
Speaker 2: gonna say we don't love it. We're not gonna say

1297
00:56:08,000 --> 00:56:09,440
Speaker 2: it's not a thing. We don't want to see. We

1298
00:56:09,480 --> 00:56:10,320
Speaker 2: can't wait.

1299
00:56:10,120 --> 00:56:10,520
Speaker 1: To see it.

1300
00:56:10,880 --> 00:56:13,719
Speaker 2: This guy the Cuban muscle crisis taking on this new

1301
00:56:14,400 --> 00:56:18,640
Speaker 2: amazing champion and BC, boy, did that one fail to

1302
00:56:18,680 --> 00:56:21,160
Speaker 2: live up to any expectations.

1303
00:56:21,280 --> 00:56:23,880
Speaker 4: I think this is in my top three of fights

1304
00:56:23,880 --> 00:56:26,680
Speaker 4: I was most excited about in the history of the UFC.

1305
00:56:27,120 --> 00:56:29,799
Speaker 4: I failed on this one, Luke, to really look at

1306
00:56:29,840 --> 00:56:32,520
Speaker 4: the idea that we're talking about two counter punchers, right,

1307
00:56:32,719 --> 00:56:35,839
Speaker 4: it's counter strikers don't always make it work if either

1308
00:56:36,040 --> 00:56:37,200
Speaker 4: neither one will take the lead.

1309
00:56:37,520 --> 00:56:38,760
Speaker 3: But talk about the magic.

1310
00:56:38,840 --> 00:56:41,200
Speaker 4: There was so much magic coming off of the back

1311
00:56:41,239 --> 00:56:44,640
Speaker 4: to back Gastolon Whitaker fights. Luke that when Adosini came

1312
00:56:44,640 --> 00:56:48,640
Speaker 4: out there and said, you know, Costa's her, there's no

1313
00:56:48,840 --> 00:56:51,080
Speaker 4: kind of number one contender that like is jumping out

1314
00:56:51,080 --> 00:56:51,759
Speaker 4: and deserving it.

1315
00:56:52,120 --> 00:56:54,719
Speaker 3: I'll grab the guy that nobody wants to fight. Dude.

1316
00:56:54,760 --> 00:56:56,319
Speaker 3: To me, that was like, I mean, that's there to

1317
00:56:56,360 --> 00:56:58,640
Speaker 3: be great stuff. That's catnip to people like us. Luke,

1318
00:56:58,800 --> 00:56:59,719
Speaker 3: I was like, not only is.

1319
00:56:59,719 --> 00:57:03,680
Speaker 4: This guy everything, he's trying to be everything I mean,

1320
00:57:03,719 --> 00:57:05,680
Speaker 4: and then to come out and do it this way.

1321
00:57:05,960 --> 00:57:07,960
Speaker 3: So look, this fight was was a sleeper.

1322
00:57:08,000 --> 00:57:10,600
Speaker 4: In the first round, Romero surprised at Asannia with that

1323
00:57:10,680 --> 00:57:11,360
Speaker 4: kick to the face.

1324
00:57:11,760 --> 00:57:13,000
Speaker 3: I think it kind of.

1325
00:57:13,440 --> 00:57:15,480
Speaker 4: I don't think it shook him up in the standpoint

1326
00:57:15,480 --> 00:57:18,840
Speaker 4: of making him on queer street or wobbly, but Luke,

1327
00:57:18,960 --> 00:57:20,040
Speaker 4: almost in the same way.

1328
00:57:20,040 --> 00:57:21,440
Speaker 3: I think if we examine.

1329
00:57:21,040 --> 00:57:23,200
Speaker 4: That Anderson Silver one were there are moments where Silver

1330
00:57:23,320 --> 00:57:26,880
Speaker 4: landed strikes that at a Sonya thought he couldn't, where

1331
00:57:26,920 --> 00:57:29,080
Speaker 4: he started to say, you know what, I can do

1332
00:57:29,200 --> 00:57:32,480
Speaker 4: this differently and safer on the outside. I think from

1333
00:57:32,480 --> 00:57:35,560
Speaker 4: the moment Romero landed that kick in round one, it

1334
00:57:35,640 --> 00:57:38,760
Speaker 4: got out of Sonya thinking there's probably a safer way

1335
00:57:38,800 --> 00:57:41,480
Speaker 4: to do this, and then I think, here's what's unfortunate, Luke.

1336
00:57:41,960 --> 00:57:43,040
Speaker 3: The unfortunate part is.

1337
00:57:43,080 --> 00:57:46,760
Speaker 4: Romero can't argue the fact that he thought he won,

1338
00:57:47,280 --> 00:57:50,440
Speaker 4: that I thought he won, and that even though it

1339
00:57:50,520 --> 00:57:53,120
Speaker 4: goes down in the book says a shitty performance because

1340
00:57:53,120 --> 00:57:56,120
Speaker 4: it's the equivalent of a basketball team holding the ball

1341
00:57:56,320 --> 00:57:58,640
Speaker 4: in college basketball in the four corners and then trying

1342
00:57:58,640 --> 00:58:00,560
Speaker 4: to get a last second lay up to run out

1343
00:58:00,560 --> 00:58:01,080
Speaker 4: the shot clock.

1344
00:58:01,120 --> 00:58:01,560
Speaker 3: Every time.

1345
00:58:01,840 --> 00:58:06,000
Speaker 4: It's totally a back door style to win the fight.

1346
00:58:06,560 --> 00:58:09,880
Speaker 4: Yet in that back door style, I thought Ramero pulled

1347
00:58:09,880 --> 00:58:10,120
Speaker 4: it off.

1348
00:58:10,160 --> 00:58:11,000
Speaker 3: Three rounds to two.

1349
00:58:11,240 --> 00:58:13,520
Speaker 4: He just doesn't get the chance to argue about it

1350
00:58:13,760 --> 00:58:16,720
Speaker 4: because he refused to come forward, and then when out

1351
00:58:16,720 --> 00:58:19,040
Speaker 4: of Sony refused to answer that refusal.

1352
00:58:19,400 --> 00:58:20,920
Speaker 3: You had a shitty.

1353
00:58:20,560 --> 00:58:23,840
Speaker 4: Five round fight that I think was a major step

1354
00:58:23,840 --> 00:58:26,640
Speaker 4: backward in that moment. Now, look, he redeemed that, like

1355
00:58:26,720 --> 00:58:30,439
Speaker 4: he's redeemed all of his step backs in monster ways, Luke,

1356
00:58:30,640 --> 00:58:33,120
Speaker 4: But in that moment, this was a wake up call

1357
00:58:33,200 --> 00:58:36,880
Speaker 4: that maybe your hero out of Sonya, you know, maybe

1358
00:58:36,880 --> 00:58:39,640
Speaker 4: he can't do all things. No, he didn't lose, but

1359
00:58:39,760 --> 00:58:42,880
Speaker 4: he basically said, judges, it's up to you, what did

1360
00:58:42,880 --> 00:58:46,040
Speaker 4: you see? And champions should not ever do that, Luke.

1361
00:58:46,160 --> 00:58:48,800
Speaker 4: They should never say, you know what instead of making sure,

1362
00:58:49,080 --> 00:58:50,800
Speaker 4: I'm just going to give this to the judges and

1363
00:58:50,840 --> 00:58:53,760
Speaker 4: see what they thought. He did that with this performance, Luke,

1364
00:58:54,040 --> 00:58:58,200
Speaker 4: he did not do enough to demonstratively say that he

1365
00:58:58,200 --> 00:58:59,800
Speaker 4: should have won this fight in some ways.

1366
00:58:59,840 --> 00:59:01,240
Speaker 3: No, no one should have won it. You know.

1367
00:59:01,320 --> 00:59:03,880
Speaker 4: As much as I just gave Romero credit for backdoorn him,

1368
00:59:04,080 --> 00:59:05,240
Speaker 4: it still was a shitty fight.

1369
00:59:05,280 --> 00:59:06,640
Speaker 3: At the end of the day, I'm.

1370
00:59:06,480 --> 00:59:09,040
Speaker 4: Still disappointed that Attasania didn't show us who he was

1371
00:59:09,080 --> 00:59:09,520
Speaker 4: in that fight.

1372
00:59:10,160 --> 00:59:12,080
Speaker 2: Well, The thing is, I didn't mind that he did

1373
00:59:12,080 --> 00:59:15,200
Speaker 2: that part because my view is, if you're gonna do that,

1374
00:59:15,280 --> 00:59:17,280
Speaker 2: you know it's eventually going to bite you. So if

1375
00:59:17,280 --> 00:59:19,800
Speaker 2: you want to roll that dice, fine, but if you

1376
00:59:19,840 --> 00:59:22,360
Speaker 2: get a bad decision, don't complain about it, especially when

1377
00:59:22,360 --> 00:59:24,000
Speaker 2: it's really tight and it's really close.

1378
00:59:24,320 --> 00:59:25,880
Speaker 1: And yeah, we can argue.

1379
00:59:25,760 --> 00:59:27,960
Speaker 2: Romero won this run or out to sign anyone that one,

1380
00:59:28,000 --> 00:59:31,040
Speaker 2: but there was never really a round where you were like, Okay,

1381
00:59:31,360 --> 00:59:33,439
Speaker 2: that guy put it on the other guy. It never

1382
00:59:33,480 --> 00:59:35,960
Speaker 2: happened in either direction. So if those guys want to

1383
00:59:36,000 --> 00:59:37,080
Speaker 2: roll the dice and you want to go to the

1384
00:59:37,160 --> 00:59:39,680
Speaker 2: judges with that, do not complain with what result you

1385
00:59:39,720 --> 00:59:41,680
Speaker 2: get in the end. That's usually my view in this,

1386
00:59:41,720 --> 00:59:44,000
Speaker 2: but I agree. I think this was one of those

1387
00:59:44,040 --> 00:59:47,720
Speaker 2: moments where again what he had shown in the Gasolm

1388
00:59:47,760 --> 00:59:50,600
Speaker 2: fight and then the Whitaker fight, this was not This

1389
00:59:50,760 --> 00:59:53,240
Speaker 2: was very much a backtrack in the worst kind of way.

1390
00:59:53,280 --> 00:59:56,560
Speaker 2: But I also do feel like he was the champion.

1391
00:59:56,720 --> 00:59:58,560
Speaker 2: He didn't have to take on that risk. He did

1392
00:59:58,600 --> 01:00:02,640
Speaker 2: it anyway, and you had enough. There were still some

1393
01:00:02,680 --> 01:00:04,440
Speaker 2: haters out there, there always will be, I suppose to

1394
01:00:04,440 --> 01:00:06,640
Speaker 2: be see, but I did think at that point though,

1395
01:00:06,680 --> 01:00:08,960
Speaker 2: he had built up a lot of goodwill with fans

1396
01:00:09,000 --> 01:00:11,960
Speaker 2: as like a known commodity of action or skill or

1397
01:00:12,160 --> 01:00:14,520
Speaker 2: some combination of the two. But it was also that

1398
01:00:14,600 --> 01:00:16,880
Speaker 2: reminder again you got with the Silver fight. Dude, this

1399
01:00:16,920 --> 01:00:19,280
Speaker 2: guy is gonna assess what the risks are and he's

1400
01:00:19,280 --> 01:00:21,080
Speaker 2: gonna find a way to win no matter what. But

1401
01:00:21,120 --> 01:00:24,200
Speaker 2: you may not like the ways in which he defines

1402
01:00:24,240 --> 01:00:26,600
Speaker 2: the narrow parameters of what he's going to allow himself

1403
01:00:26,640 --> 01:00:26,920
Speaker 2: to do.

1404
01:00:27,440 --> 01:00:28,640
Speaker 1: Those don't happen every fight.

1405
01:00:28,640 --> 01:00:30,880
Speaker 2: They happen every third or fourth fight with him, but

1406
01:00:30,960 --> 01:00:34,040
Speaker 2: it is consistent enough where you have to, you know,

1407
01:00:34,160 --> 01:00:36,400
Speaker 2: recognize it's always a possibility. By the way, I don't

1408
01:00:36,440 --> 01:00:41,080
Speaker 2: think it's gonna be a situation here, Lubillhovich, but you know,

1409
01:00:41,240 --> 01:00:41,720
Speaker 2: I guess.

1410
01:00:41,560 --> 01:00:42,160
Speaker 1: We'll have to see.

1411
01:00:42,280 --> 01:00:44,560
Speaker 2: You can never rule it out, But you also can't

1412
01:00:44,600 --> 01:00:47,520
Speaker 2: rule out the fact that, you know, Romero just did

1413
01:00:47,520 --> 01:00:50,960
Speaker 2: not give you a very convincing argument to take the

1414
01:00:50,960 --> 01:00:51,440
Speaker 2: belt off of.

1415
01:00:51,440 --> 01:00:51,640
Speaker 1: Out of it.

1416
01:00:51,840 --> 01:00:54,840
Speaker 4: Yeah, not neither had an argument. Really neither had an argument,

1417
01:00:54,880 --> 01:00:57,680
Speaker 4: and it's sad. And also, let's not forget this followed

1418
01:00:57,960 --> 01:01:01,920
Speaker 4: Joanna against jiangwe Lee, which was, you know, one of the.

1419
01:01:01,880 --> 01:01:04,800
Speaker 3: Best three or four fights in UFC history. Yeah, so

1420
01:01:05,520 --> 01:01:07,160
Speaker 3: this this was a double bummer.

1421
01:01:07,200 --> 01:01:10,760
Speaker 4: But Luke, we've talked about how many times old Adasanya

1422
01:01:10,840 --> 01:01:12,680
Speaker 4: has redemptified himself.

1423
01:01:12,720 --> 01:01:14,720
Speaker 3: If I even made that word up in the moment.

1424
01:01:15,320 --> 01:01:18,560
Speaker 4: The UFC two fifty three in September of last year

1425
01:01:18,840 --> 01:01:21,120
Speaker 4: was a hell of a redemption story from this.

1426
01:01:21,320 --> 01:01:22,920
Speaker 1: It certainly was, So let's talk about it.

1427
01:01:22,960 --> 01:01:26,000
Speaker 2: The UFC did everything they could rightly in my view,

1428
01:01:26,240 --> 01:01:29,040
Speaker 2: to promote this. This was a guy in Paulo Costa

1429
01:01:29,240 --> 01:01:33,520
Speaker 2: who had, just like himself, burned through the middleweight division.

1430
01:01:33,560 --> 01:01:36,040
Speaker 2: I mean, let's talk about where he was BC before

1431
01:01:36,080 --> 01:01:39,680
Speaker 2: coming into this. He had beaten Gareth McClellan, Olawallybamboche, Johnny

1432
01:01:39,720 --> 01:01:43,240
Speaker 2: hendrix 'riyah Hall and then had the decision the one

1433
01:01:43,320 --> 01:01:46,760
Speaker 2: decision was against Joel Romero in one of the craziest,

1434
01:01:46,800 --> 01:01:49,640
Speaker 2: most action packed fights you've ever seen. And you were like,

1435
01:01:49,720 --> 01:01:52,200
Speaker 2: this guy is a force to be reckoned with. He

1436
01:01:52,240 --> 01:01:54,160
Speaker 2: either stops him or he puts him in the most

1437
01:01:54,280 --> 01:01:59,000
Speaker 2: uncomfortable situations imaginable. And Adasani was coming off the very

1438
01:01:59,240 --> 01:02:04,640
Speaker 2: so so very underwhelming. Uh this from entertainment standpoint, again,

1439
01:02:04,680 --> 01:02:06,760
Speaker 2: I did a whole video. I thought Rameiro was more

1440
01:02:06,800 --> 01:02:08,760
Speaker 2: to blame, but certainly no one had a good time

1441
01:02:09,200 --> 01:02:12,360
Speaker 2: watching that fight, and he was looking for not to

1442
01:02:12,400 --> 01:02:14,800
Speaker 2: answer the critics, but to really make sure everyone knew

1443
01:02:15,280 --> 01:02:16,760
Speaker 2: the Whittaker fight BC.

1444
01:02:16,960 --> 01:02:18,160
Speaker 1: That was not an accident.

1445
01:02:18,160 --> 01:02:21,960
Speaker 2: When it comes down to a game of skill, daddy

1446
01:02:22,040 --> 01:02:24,840
Speaker 2: is home and he said it emphatically in this case.

1447
01:02:25,200 --> 01:02:27,000
Speaker 3: Here's what's weird is we didn't know a couple of things.

1448
01:02:27,040 --> 01:02:29,360
Speaker 4: We didn't know that Costa was gonna pull his own Ramiro,

1449
01:02:29,480 --> 01:02:31,360
Speaker 4: and we didn't know that Costa was going to go

1450
01:02:31,400 --> 01:02:34,400
Speaker 4: through training camp in Napa Valley with Paul Giamatti of

1451
01:02:34,520 --> 01:02:39,800
Speaker 4: Sideways and Old Bartle's and James Luke and and uh yeah,

1452
01:02:40,000 --> 01:02:44,960
Speaker 4: and hit the bag while crunching grapes, Luke. It was

1453
01:02:45,000 --> 01:02:47,880
Speaker 4: a very in what could have been an epic war.

1454
01:02:48,480 --> 01:02:50,640
Speaker 4: Let's not forget this fight kind of sucked too. It

1455
01:02:50,680 --> 01:02:54,320
Speaker 4: was just a lot shorter and Adasania was more demonstrative.

1456
01:02:54,360 --> 01:02:56,640
Speaker 3: There's that word again, in going after the win.

1457
01:02:57,160 --> 01:02:59,280
Speaker 4: And when it was time to put it on him, dude,

1458
01:02:59,280 --> 01:03:01,400
Speaker 4: not only did he put it on and embarrass and

1459
01:03:01,480 --> 01:03:04,760
Speaker 4: stop Costa, he wrote him, Luke, He wrote him from

1460
01:03:04,800 --> 01:03:06,200
Speaker 4: the rear it's.

1461
01:03:06,000 --> 01:03:09,439
Speaker 3: To really just double down and rub it in. Well again,

1462
01:03:09,600 --> 01:03:12,080
Speaker 3: wasn't the fight we wanted or deserved.

1463
01:03:12,120 --> 01:03:15,200
Speaker 4: Let's say, as fans and Coasta may have frozen the moment,

1464
01:03:15,360 --> 01:03:17,440
Speaker 4: or maybe you know, there's some other things.

1465
01:03:17,280 --> 01:03:19,240
Speaker 3: Going on related to that wine. Who knows.

1466
01:03:19,520 --> 01:03:21,200
Speaker 4: But you got to give out a sign your credit

1467
01:03:21,280 --> 01:03:24,800
Speaker 4: for repairing whatever was lost in the Romero fight before,

1468
01:03:25,160 --> 01:03:28,919
Speaker 4: because this did not take away from the idea that

1469
01:03:29,360 --> 01:03:31,720
Speaker 4: he could be your pomper pound king and he could

1470
01:03:31,720 --> 01:03:33,760
Speaker 4: be again in the face of this sport moving forward

1471
01:03:34,000 --> 01:03:36,040
Speaker 4: nine to zero, three years.

1472
01:03:36,480 --> 01:03:39,200
Speaker 3: What a frickin three years, Luke, good God.

1473
01:03:39,920 --> 01:03:42,240
Speaker 2: So, just to put in perspective, the story here was

1474
01:03:42,320 --> 01:03:44,520
Speaker 2: not that the Ata Signa Coasta fight, to your point,

1475
01:03:44,600 --> 01:03:48,440
Speaker 2: was like crazy, amazing back and forth. Oh my goodness,

1476
01:03:48,440 --> 01:03:51,000
Speaker 2: how much fun are we having? It was just one

1477
01:03:51,120 --> 01:03:54,680
Speaker 2: sided to the point the significant strikes total strikes total

1478
01:03:55,120 --> 01:04:00,600
Speaker 2: that Paula Costa landed in this fight twelve he landed twelve. Uh,

1479
01:04:00,880 --> 01:04:06,080
Speaker 2: he never got anything going ever, Ada Signya dictated the

1480
01:04:06,280 --> 01:04:09,000
Speaker 2: entire thing where they fought, how they fought, what was

1481
01:04:09,040 --> 01:04:11,640
Speaker 2: gonna land and what wasn't gonna land, and put his

1482
01:04:11,720 --> 01:04:14,520
Speaker 2: lights out in the second round. I think the time

1483
01:04:14,600 --> 01:04:17,560
Speaker 2: was three point fifty nine, Like, it was nothing landing

1484
01:04:17,640 --> 01:04:19,120
Speaker 2: on him in the first a couple of times that

1485
01:04:19,160 --> 01:04:21,120
Speaker 2: you know, there was a that headkick that buzzed him

1486
01:04:21,560 --> 01:04:23,680
Speaker 2: a little bit. This was a moment where it was like, dude,

1487
01:04:23,680 --> 01:04:26,560
Speaker 2: one of these guys is winning because he's athletic, and

1488
01:04:26,600 --> 01:04:28,200
Speaker 2: he just kind of you know, it was a bruising

1489
01:04:28,240 --> 01:04:31,040
Speaker 2: marauder and one of these guys is a surgeon, and

1490
01:04:31,080 --> 01:04:33,920
Speaker 2: there's no comparison.

1491
01:04:33,720 --> 01:04:35,000
Speaker 1: In terms of skills between them.

1492
01:04:35,040 --> 01:04:36,880
Speaker 2: To the point, BC, well, we're still to this day

1493
01:04:37,400 --> 01:04:41,440
Speaker 2: having conversations about the excuses. Literally this week the news cycle,

1494
01:04:41,920 --> 01:04:45,720
Speaker 2: Paulo Costa is still coming up with the reasons why

1495
01:04:45,760 --> 01:04:48,760
Speaker 2: he underperformed. Uh, maybe it's just because out of signya

1496
01:04:48,800 --> 01:04:49,280
Speaker 2: is that good?

1497
01:04:49,720 --> 01:04:52,760
Speaker 3: Yeah? Well he wants some wine with that cheese? Uh yeah,

1498
01:04:53,080 --> 01:04:55,280
Speaker 3: actually he did have some with it. Okay, yes, yes

1499
01:04:55,320 --> 01:04:55,560
Speaker 3: he did.

1500
01:04:56,760 --> 01:04:59,120
Speaker 2: To wrap things up here, BC, what would you say

1501
01:04:59,240 --> 01:05:01,520
Speaker 2: is the story of his raw a sonya heading into

1502
01:05:01,520 --> 01:05:02,200
Speaker 2: Saturday's fight?

1503
01:05:02,320 --> 01:05:03,200
Speaker 1: Last words on this.

1504
01:05:06,880 --> 01:05:09,320
Speaker 4: That that you know, there's certainly a next level greatness

1505
01:05:09,360 --> 01:05:12,320
Speaker 4: to him, an understanding of striking and a poise in

1506
01:05:12,480 --> 01:05:15,520
Speaker 4: artistry to what he does, which is seemingly unique even

1507
01:05:15,560 --> 01:05:17,800
Speaker 4: though he got the early comparisons to two of the

1508
01:05:17,800 --> 01:05:18,720
Speaker 4: greatest of all time.

1509
01:05:19,200 --> 01:05:23,120
Speaker 3: Uh, it's also a guy, Luke, who who's not perfect.

1510
01:05:23,440 --> 01:05:26,000
Speaker 4: He can be human, but luckily none of his you know,

1511
01:05:26,280 --> 01:05:29,480
Speaker 4: very human performances have have set him back too badly.

1512
01:05:29,640 --> 01:05:31,360
Speaker 3: He's been able to learn from.

1513
01:05:31,080 --> 01:05:33,560
Speaker 4: Being on his back from Vittori through all the way

1514
01:05:33,600 --> 01:05:36,440
Speaker 4: to stinking it out against Romero, how to adjust and

1515
01:05:36,480 --> 01:05:39,320
Speaker 4: adapt to that that I really believe we are seeing

1516
01:05:39,360 --> 01:05:41,280
Speaker 4: one of the greatest of all time. There's you know,

1517
01:05:41,320 --> 01:05:43,600
Speaker 4: there's no guarantee he beats Blahotz. There's no guarantee he

1518
01:05:43,600 --> 01:05:45,760
Speaker 4: went loose to Robert White kernel rematch for all we know.

1519
01:05:46,200 --> 01:05:48,480
Speaker 4: There's also no guarantee Luke, he doesn't go out there

1520
01:05:48,760 --> 01:05:52,360
Speaker 4: and slice through Blohoitz, become a two division simultaneous champion

1521
01:05:52,800 --> 01:05:55,080
Speaker 4: and then one day fight John Jones for the heavyweight

1522
01:05:55,120 --> 01:05:57,520
Speaker 4: championship and what really, on paper would have to be

1523
01:05:57,520 --> 01:06:00,880
Speaker 4: the biggest fight in the company's history. It's a special

1524
01:06:01,000 --> 01:06:10,480
Speaker 4: person underneath that, because you know, he's he's adaptable, and he's.

1525
01:06:09,160 --> 01:06:11,120
Speaker 3: Just hard to break. Luke. I don't think we've seen it.

1526
01:06:11,160 --> 01:06:13,640
Speaker 3: I don't think we've seen in any form as it

1527
01:06:13,680 --> 01:06:14,320
Speaker 3: comes to fighting.

1528
01:06:14,360 --> 01:06:16,200
Speaker 4: You know, Okay, Romero held the ball and kind of

1529
01:06:16,240 --> 01:06:17,960
Speaker 4: froze him, but he didn't break him.

1530
01:06:18,240 --> 01:06:20,200
Speaker 3: We've never seen this guy crack yet.

1531
01:06:20,400 --> 01:06:24,000
Speaker 4: And what that means is you don't know how good

1532
01:06:24,000 --> 01:06:25,800
Speaker 4: he is. I don't know if he can pull this

1533
01:06:25,800 --> 01:06:26,600
Speaker 4: heavyweight shit.

1534
01:06:26,440 --> 01:06:26,760
Speaker 1: Off, Luke.

1535
01:06:26,800 --> 01:06:28,320
Speaker 3: I don't know if he could be Blohowitz.

1536
01:06:29,080 --> 01:06:31,720
Speaker 4: But I've stopped being in a position to doubt that

1537
01:06:31,800 --> 01:06:34,320
Speaker 4: based on these nine fights that we went through, because

1538
01:06:34,360 --> 01:06:38,160
Speaker 4: we've seen so many highs and enough lows, like I said,

1539
01:06:38,200 --> 01:06:40,240
Speaker 4: to see how he responds to adversity.

1540
01:06:40,720 --> 01:06:43,240
Speaker 3: This is very very special athlete here.

1541
01:06:44,000 --> 01:06:44,200
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1542
01:06:44,240 --> 01:06:45,520
Speaker 2: I mean the thing I want to go back to

1543
01:06:45,600 --> 01:06:47,400
Speaker 2: is how we kind of opened a little bit when

1544
01:06:47,440 --> 01:06:48,400
Speaker 2: we said that.

1545
01:06:48,480 --> 01:06:50,160
Speaker 1: You listen to the first couple of fights.

1546
01:06:50,240 --> 01:06:52,560
Speaker 2: He has several of the fights actually, and you hear

1547
01:06:52,640 --> 01:06:55,280
Speaker 2: him being compared to the next John Jones, the next

1548
01:06:55,360 --> 01:06:58,880
Speaker 2: Anderson Silva, and really for most things good, but some things,

1549
01:06:59,120 --> 01:07:01,360
Speaker 2: like you said, he's not perfect. He is very much

1550
01:07:01,440 --> 01:07:03,640
Speaker 2: his own man. He's his own man in terms of

1551
01:07:03,680 --> 01:07:06,360
Speaker 2: his story being unique. He's his own man. In terms

1552
01:07:06,360 --> 01:07:08,760
Speaker 2: of the style that he brings to the octagon. He's

1553
01:07:08,800 --> 01:07:10,560
Speaker 2: his own man in terms of the generation that he

1554
01:07:10,640 --> 01:07:13,160
Speaker 2: represents inside the octagon like he's sort of a unique

1555
01:07:13,360 --> 01:07:19,240
Speaker 2: singular feature about his larger generation. He's very much just

1556
01:07:19,240 --> 01:07:22,800
Speaker 2: just unusual, both of his level of talent and the

1557
01:07:22,880 --> 01:07:24,960
Speaker 2: way he presents himself to the world and how he

1558
01:07:25,000 --> 01:07:27,560
Speaker 2: fights and everything else. He isn't the next John Jones,

1559
01:07:27,680 --> 01:07:29,520
Speaker 2: and he isn't the next Anderson Selva. He's the one

1560
01:07:29,560 --> 01:07:32,760
Speaker 2: and only Israel Atasania. And you may like parts of that,

1561
01:07:32,840 --> 01:07:34,920
Speaker 2: you may not. Some things you may appreciate about him,

1562
01:07:34,960 --> 01:07:37,600
Speaker 2: some things you may wish were different, But in general

1563
01:07:37,760 --> 01:07:42,360
Speaker 2: that that package he has shown as who he is

1564
01:07:42,360 --> 01:07:48,480
Speaker 2: is to your point, next generational seemingly seemingly next generational talent, Well,

1565
01:07:48,680 --> 01:07:52,080
Speaker 2: we will know for sure on Saturday. Bas See, if

1566
01:07:52,080 --> 01:07:53,840
Speaker 2: he goes in there on Saturday, he wins and gets

1567
01:07:53,840 --> 01:07:56,320
Speaker 2: another belt, you know, he would be just more than

1568
01:07:56,360 --> 01:07:58,439
Speaker 2: a guy who had an impressive twenty fight or whatever

1569
01:07:58,440 --> 01:07:58,600
Speaker 2: it is.

1570
01:07:58,640 --> 01:07:59,120
Speaker 1: At this point.

1571
01:07:59,160 --> 01:08:01,880
Speaker 2: Run now you're talking about somebody in the all time

1572
01:08:01,920 --> 01:08:04,120
Speaker 2: How many have you got to count the best fighters

1573
01:08:04,120 --> 01:08:06,440
Speaker 2: and UFC on your hand. You have to start putting

1574
01:08:06,520 --> 01:08:09,200
Speaker 2: him into that conversation. Certainly you couldn't exclude him all

1575
01:08:09,200 --> 01:08:11,800
Speaker 2: the way from it. That's the kind of history he

1576
01:08:11,920 --> 01:08:14,400
Speaker 2: is upon here and everything he's done to this point

1577
01:08:14,520 --> 01:08:18,599
Speaker 2: has been pretty historical already. Okay, well, Brian, I wish

1578
01:08:18,600 --> 01:08:21,080
Speaker 2: you nothing but the best of luck and good times

1579
01:08:21,360 --> 01:08:25,959
Speaker 2: in the wonderful island of Puerto Rico. We both represent

1580
01:08:26,080 --> 01:08:29,599
Speaker 2: CBS Sports. We have plenty more coverage coming your way

1581
01:08:29,920 --> 01:08:32,640
Speaker 2: this week. We hope you enjoyed the resume review of

1582
01:08:32,720 --> 01:08:36,200
Speaker 2: Israel Atisagna. So for Brian Campbell on Puerto Rico, I'm

1583
01:08:36,240 --> 01:08:38,960
Speaker 2: Luke Thomas. Thanks to everyone who watched. Till next time,

1584
01:08:39,200 --> 01:08:40,240
Speaker 2: enjoy the fights.