WEBVTT - Week in Tech: Chips are the New Oil

0:00:13.760 --> 0:00:17.080
<v Speaker 1>From Kaleidoscope and iHeart podcasts. This is tech stuff. I'm

0:00:17.120 --> 0:00:19.799
<v Speaker 1>Os Voloscian and I'm care Price. Today we're going to

0:00:19.840 --> 0:00:23.159
<v Speaker 1>get into a communications network built for the end of

0:00:23.200 --> 0:00:27.360
<v Speaker 1>the world, and why the US is placing tracking devices

0:00:27.400 --> 0:00:31.320
<v Speaker 1>in AI chip shipments. Then on chat to me your

0:00:31.360 --> 0:00:35.159
<v Speaker 1>next makeover brought to you by AI. All of that

0:00:35.400 --> 0:00:47.320
<v Speaker 1>on the Weekend Tech. It's Friday, August twenty second. Hello,

0:00:47.360 --> 0:00:48.159
<v Speaker 1>Hello Cara.

0:00:48.200 --> 0:00:51.239
<v Speaker 2>Hi auhs. Do you remember when we talked about the

0:00:51.240 --> 0:00:54.960
<v Speaker 2>half marathon between humans and robots.

0:00:54.480 --> 0:00:58.800
<v Speaker 1>The one in China? I remember, yes, right.

0:00:58.560 --> 0:01:02.360
<v Speaker 2>There are now robot Olympians and I'm talking about the

0:01:02.480 --> 0:01:05.240
<v Speaker 2>humanoid robot games in Beijing.

0:01:06.800 --> 0:01:08.679
<v Speaker 1>I didn't know about this, but it does make me

0:01:08.760 --> 0:01:12.280
<v Speaker 1>think of my childhood as an only child. In England

0:01:12.480 --> 0:01:15.120
<v Speaker 1>in the late nineties there were you I know, there

0:01:15.120 --> 0:01:18.920
<v Speaker 1>are originally four terrestrial TV channels, and then a fifth

0:01:19.000 --> 0:01:22.280
<v Speaker 1>was launch called Channel five, and Channel five had slightly

0:01:22.440 --> 0:01:26.720
<v Speaker 1>more racy content, including at seven pm every Friday night

0:01:26.800 --> 0:01:31.480
<v Speaker 1>a show called Robot Wars where various middle aged hobbyists

0:01:31.560 --> 0:01:35.080
<v Speaker 1>would have their extremely slow robots bump into each other

0:01:35.160 --> 0:01:38.440
<v Speaker 1>and then break. But the commentator really brought the energy

0:01:38.760 --> 0:01:40.520
<v Speaker 1>and so it was. It was better than whatever else

0:01:40.520 --> 0:01:42.199
<v Speaker 1>was on TV for me, at least as a child.

0:01:42.480 --> 0:01:46.319
<v Speaker 1>That's a long rambling response. Is what you're talking about?

0:01:46.400 --> 0:01:48.880
<v Speaker 2>You had the viewing taste of a middle aged British man.

0:01:49.120 --> 0:01:50.320
<v Speaker 1>I did, and I still do.

0:01:50.640 --> 0:01:52.880
<v Speaker 2>It's not it's a little bit what I'm talking about.

0:01:53.040 --> 0:01:55.360
<v Speaker 2>Let me give a little bit of context. So these

0:01:55.400 --> 0:01:58.280
<v Speaker 2>games took place over three days in Beijing, and they

0:01:58.360 --> 0:02:01.520
<v Speaker 2>actually used some of the facilities that were built for

0:02:01.760 --> 0:02:05.000
<v Speaker 2>the twenty twenty two Winter Olympics. There were two hundred

0:02:05.040 --> 0:02:08.720
<v Speaker 2>and eighty teams from sixteen countries, including the US. The

0:02:08.800 --> 0:02:12.880
<v Speaker 2>competitions include soccer, running, kickboxing, which is sort of like

0:02:12.919 --> 0:02:17.200
<v Speaker 2>what you were talking about, basketball, table tennis, and then

0:02:17.520 --> 0:02:22.079
<v Speaker 2>strangely enough, factory work and warehouse warehouse navigation robots.

0:02:22.080 --> 0:02:26.680
<v Speaker 1>Were like, we got this, truly some must watch sports.

0:02:26.680 --> 0:02:30.079
<v Speaker 1>That's an interesting interesting They kind of brought the hype

0:02:30.120 --> 0:02:32.640
<v Speaker 1>with the kickboxing, but then what they're really flexing was

0:02:32.760 --> 0:02:34.480
<v Speaker 1>we got the rick and wac pick and pack. We

0:02:34.520 --> 0:02:35.519
<v Speaker 1>got pick and pack down.

0:02:35.400 --> 0:02:37.600
<v Speaker 2>To a t. Here we go. Yeah, I mean the

0:02:37.639 --> 0:02:41.600
<v Speaker 2>whole thing was definitely designed to wow. The opening ceremony,

0:02:41.600 --> 0:02:45.880
<v Speaker 2>as opening ceremonies do included dozens of robots dancing, doing

0:02:45.919 --> 0:02:49.640
<v Speaker 2>martial arts, playing drums and sink which you might remember

0:02:49.639 --> 0:02:52.120
<v Speaker 2>from the two thousand and eight Beijing opening ceremony. I

0:02:52.120 --> 0:02:54.240
<v Speaker 2>think it was sort of like, look, the robots can

0:02:54.280 --> 0:02:57.200
<v Speaker 2>do what humans did at the Olympics. Let me just

0:02:57.240 --> 0:02:59.920
<v Speaker 2>show you a video because it's inexplicable.

0:03:00.600 --> 0:03:04.960
<v Speaker 1>We have a real man playing a piano facing a

0:03:05.080 --> 0:03:08.000
<v Speaker 1>robot in a silver cape also playing.

0:03:08.400 --> 0:03:11.280
<v Speaker 2>Oh, and here comes a robot in a bucket hat. Oh.

0:03:11.360 --> 0:03:16.120
<v Speaker 1>Now there's real kids jumping around behind the bucket hat robots.

0:03:15.639 --> 0:03:17.960
<v Speaker 2>And they're dancing. Some of the robots don't seem to

0:03:17.960 --> 0:03:18.880
<v Speaker 2>be complying very well.

0:03:18.919 --> 0:03:21.880
<v Speaker 1>This is a surprisingly low rent. In any case, the

0:03:21.919 --> 0:03:24.280
<v Speaker 1>production values are not as high and are not that

0:03:24.360 --> 0:03:27.160
<v Speaker 1>much different Channel five, nineteen ninety eight. I mean there

0:03:27.240 --> 0:03:29.920
<v Speaker 1>is a sense of evolution from the TV show of

0:03:29.960 --> 0:03:32.120
<v Speaker 1>my childhood. I'm kind of surprised, but I actually thought

0:03:32.120 --> 0:03:34.600
<v Speaker 1>that it would be more wow factor.

0:03:34.880 --> 0:03:36.800
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, you know, I watched a little bit more of

0:03:36.840 --> 0:03:39.680
<v Speaker 2>the video and it definitely left a bit to be

0:03:39.760 --> 0:03:42.440
<v Speaker 2>desired across the board, you know, in the track and field,

0:03:42.480 --> 0:03:46.640
<v Speaker 2>and android ran full speed into one of the robot operators,

0:03:46.720 --> 0:03:49.400
<v Speaker 2>knocking him down and then he just kept running, which

0:03:49.600 --> 0:03:51.400
<v Speaker 2>you know, when they say the robots are taking over,

0:03:51.400 --> 0:03:54.080
<v Speaker 2>that's what I imagine. Everybody was fine, though, don't worry.

0:03:54.480 --> 0:03:58.320
<v Speaker 2>And the boxing robots, let's just say they miss their target.

0:03:58.440 --> 0:04:01.880
<v Speaker 2>They managed to barely punch each other at all, flailing

0:04:01.920 --> 0:04:04.080
<v Speaker 2>through the air until the refs just gave up and

0:04:04.120 --> 0:04:05.000
<v Speaker 2>were like, this one wins.

0:04:05.040 --> 0:04:07.960
<v Speaker 1>Whatever I saw a Ziemaza has a great newsletter called

0:04:08.040 --> 0:04:10.920
<v Speaker 1>Exponential View, and he put something on his LinkedIn my

0:04:11.040 --> 0:04:15.800
<v Speaker 1>favorite source of truth saying basically, this is a cute story,

0:04:15.880 --> 0:04:18.200
<v Speaker 1>but watch out because by twenty thirty it's going to

0:04:18.200 --> 0:04:22.120
<v Speaker 1>be a thirty five to fifty billion dollar industry. What

0:04:22.240 --> 0:04:23.800
<v Speaker 1>kind of reactions do you see.

0:04:23.560 --> 0:04:25.520
<v Speaker 2>Well, it's obvious that there's still a long way to

0:04:25.560 --> 0:04:29.080
<v Speaker 2>go before robots are capable of outperforming elite athletes or

0:04:29.160 --> 0:04:33.000
<v Speaker 2>outperforming elite dance squads. But that's sort of besides the point.

0:04:33.120 --> 0:04:36.159
<v Speaker 2>Those participating in the games were really there to collect data.

0:04:36.520 --> 0:04:38.880
<v Speaker 2>The robot games were a great way for these teams

0:04:38.920 --> 0:04:43.360
<v Speaker 2>to keep developing robots for more practical applications like factory work.

0:04:43.480 --> 0:04:46.040
<v Speaker 2>But as one robotics professor said to The New York Times,

0:04:46.720 --> 0:04:50.040
<v Speaker 2>robots are still dumb, haush.

0:04:50.200 --> 0:04:52.560
<v Speaker 1>You know, these games are interesting in the fact their

0:04:52.600 --> 0:04:56.599
<v Speaker 1>station in Beijing and that the US participated. It does

0:04:56.680 --> 0:04:59.479
<v Speaker 1>kind of bring to mind this Cold War posturing around

0:04:59.480 --> 0:05:03.560
<v Speaker 1>the space and the nuclear race, and robotics is obviously

0:05:03.720 --> 0:05:07.960
<v Speaker 1>a frontier of the tech race between the US and

0:05:08.040 --> 0:05:10.480
<v Speaker 1>China and an area where China seems to have the

0:05:10.560 --> 0:05:13.520
<v Speaker 1>upper hand, which is probably why these mass spectacle events

0:05:13.520 --> 0:05:16.200
<v Speaker 1>are happening so regularly, because they're great memes and they

0:05:16.240 --> 0:05:17.680
<v Speaker 1>remind the world of that.

0:05:18.000 --> 0:05:20.039
<v Speaker 2>You know, we talk about the AI race a lot

0:05:20.040 --> 0:05:22.800
<v Speaker 2>between the two countries, and I think the feeling is

0:05:22.839 --> 0:05:25.320
<v Speaker 2>that the US still has the upper hand.

0:05:25.560 --> 0:05:28.400
<v Speaker 1>I think that's the narrative that the US has this edge.

0:05:28.440 --> 0:05:30.360
<v Speaker 1>Some people say it's three months, some people say it's

0:05:30.400 --> 0:05:33.719
<v Speaker 1>six months. Some people say it's twelve months. It's a

0:05:33.720 --> 0:05:37.680
<v Speaker 1>small edge. I interviewed Jake Sullivan, the National Security Advisor

0:05:37.800 --> 0:05:40.520
<v Speaker 1>under President Biden, a few months ago. As you probably remember,

0:05:41.080 --> 0:05:44.520
<v Speaker 1>he is the guy who designed the US policy to

0:05:44.600 --> 0:05:48.640
<v Speaker 1>restrict China's access to advanced chips in order to maintain

0:05:49.000 --> 0:05:51.200
<v Speaker 1>the US edge and AI, and that policy was rolled

0:05:51.200 --> 0:05:52.240
<v Speaker 1>out back in twenty twenty two.

0:05:52.360 --> 0:05:54.360
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I remember that interview and He told you that

0:05:54.400 --> 0:05:56.800
<v Speaker 2>despite the launch of deep Seek, which is a very

0:05:56.839 --> 0:06:00.680
<v Speaker 2>efficient Chinese AI model, he felt confident that his policy

0:06:00.680 --> 0:06:02.880
<v Speaker 2>had been the correct one, and he was worried about

0:06:02.920 --> 0:06:04.920
<v Speaker 2>what it might mean for America's edge if it were

0:06:04.920 --> 0:06:05.840
<v Speaker 2>actually rolled back.

0:06:06.080 --> 0:06:09.160
<v Speaker 1>That's right, and actually to get around that policy in

0:06:09.240 --> 0:06:13.080
<v Speaker 1>Nvidia designed a special chip specially for the Chinese market

0:06:13.160 --> 0:06:16.719
<v Speaker 1>called the H twenty, and it was weird as it sounds,

0:06:16.800 --> 0:06:20.279
<v Speaker 1>essentially designed to be less good than the top of

0:06:20.320 --> 0:06:22.760
<v Speaker 1>the line chip so that it could comply with these

0:06:22.960 --> 0:06:26.120
<v Speaker 1>US laws. The H twenty started shipping in early twenty

0:06:26.160 --> 0:06:30.000
<v Speaker 1>twenty four, but in April Trump actually went further than

0:06:30.040 --> 0:06:33.640
<v Speaker 1>the Biden administration and banned the export of AGE twenty chips.

0:06:34.200 --> 0:06:38.400
<v Speaker 1>But of course new developments late last month, President Trump

0:06:38.640 --> 0:06:44.400
<v Speaker 1>changed his mind and his administration decided that Nvidia can

0:06:44.560 --> 0:06:47.960
<v Speaker 1>now export the H twenty chips to China, provided they

0:06:48.000 --> 0:06:51.320
<v Speaker 1>pay a fifteen percent tax on all revenues of those

0:06:51.400 --> 0:06:54.440
<v Speaker 1>chips sold in China. There is interesting twist to this

0:06:54.880 --> 0:06:58.680
<v Speaker 1>saga of the chips and oxport controls. Back in the seventies,

0:06:58.880 --> 0:07:03.040
<v Speaker 1>the United States in bargoed Iranian oil, but of course

0:07:03.200 --> 0:07:06.640
<v Speaker 1>shippers and commodity traders figured out how to get past

0:07:06.920 --> 0:07:10.680
<v Speaker 1>the authorities with Iranian oil. And in a kind of

0:07:10.760 --> 0:07:13.960
<v Speaker 1>parallel of that, Reuter's reports that a booming trade has

0:07:14.000 --> 0:07:18.520
<v Speaker 1>opened up around smuggling the most advanced chips to China,

0:07:18.560 --> 0:07:22.480
<v Speaker 1>with smuggled shipments going through third party countries like Singapore, Malaysia,

0:07:22.520 --> 0:07:25.120
<v Speaker 1>and the United Arab Emirates. Roy just did run a

0:07:25.120 --> 0:07:27.320
<v Speaker 1>story about how the US may be starting to crack

0:07:27.360 --> 0:07:30.440
<v Speaker 1>down on this smuggling. It alleges US authorities have been

0:07:30.480 --> 0:07:36.880
<v Speaker 1>secretly putting location tracking technology into advanced chip shipments, shipments

0:07:36.920 --> 0:07:39.000
<v Speaker 1>they fear might be diverted to China.

0:07:39.040 --> 0:07:41.720
<v Speaker 2>So this is like dropping an air tag in your

0:07:41.840 --> 0:07:44.400
<v Speaker 2>girlfriend's purse to find out how she's cheating on you.

0:07:44.720 --> 0:07:47.520
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I mean, I can't think of a better parallel.

0:07:47.600 --> 0:07:50.880
<v Speaker 2>And so this is all in response to the export controls.

0:07:51.080 --> 0:07:53.320
<v Speaker 1>That's right, because even though as I mentioned, the export

0:07:53.320 --> 0:07:56.000
<v Speaker 1>controls have recently been lifted on the Age twenty chips,

0:07:56.280 --> 0:07:59.560
<v Speaker 1>there is still huge demand for the most advanced H

0:07:59.600 --> 0:08:02.920
<v Speaker 1>one hun undred chips in China. And again, Jake Sullivan,

0:08:02.920 --> 0:08:05.800
<v Speaker 1>when who's talking about the deep Seek moment, argue that

0:08:05.800 --> 0:08:08.640
<v Speaker 1>that likely only happened because of the number of advanced

0:08:08.680 --> 0:08:10.520
<v Speaker 1>chips that have already made it to China or that

0:08:10.560 --> 0:08:11.960
<v Speaker 1>were being smuggled into China.

0:08:12.000 --> 0:08:14.680
<v Speaker 2>But I'm confused, like, what is tracking these chips even

0:08:14.680 --> 0:08:17.360
<v Speaker 2>going to accomplish. Isn't it already too late to get

0:08:17.400 --> 0:08:17.840
<v Speaker 2>them back?

0:08:18.240 --> 0:08:21.360
<v Speaker 1>Yes, but of course to build more and more advanced

0:08:21.400 --> 0:08:24.360
<v Speaker 1>AI models, you need more and more chips. So it's

0:08:24.400 --> 0:08:26.680
<v Speaker 1>a little bit like bolting the stable after the horse

0:08:26.720 --> 0:08:29.120
<v Speaker 1>has gone to your point. But it's also a little

0:08:29.160 --> 0:08:31.680
<v Speaker 1>bit like making sure no one leaves the stable door

0:08:31.760 --> 0:08:34.200
<v Speaker 1>open again and the rest of the horses stay on

0:08:34.280 --> 0:08:37.120
<v Speaker 1>the paddock. An anonymous source told Royce's that the trackers

0:08:37.120 --> 0:08:39.959
<v Speaker 1>are basically a way of starting to build legal cases

0:08:40.280 --> 0:08:42.920
<v Speaker 1>against companies that might be breaking the export restrictions.

0:08:43.160 --> 0:08:46.800
<v Speaker 2>And do we know who's like embedding these trackers.

0:08:46.440 --> 0:08:50.360
<v Speaker 1>No, we don't know that. It could be Homeland security investigations,

0:08:50.360 --> 0:08:52.840
<v Speaker 1>it could be the FBI, could be the Commerce Department.

0:08:53.160 --> 0:08:56.400
<v Speaker 1>Sources told Royce's the trackers are hidden in the packaging

0:08:56.440 --> 0:08:59.320
<v Speaker 1>of the shipments, not the chips themselves, but they don't

0:08:59.320 --> 0:09:02.480
<v Speaker 1>know exactly in which part of the shipping process they're

0:09:02.480 --> 0:09:05.680
<v Speaker 1>actually getting embedded. They also don't know when this started

0:09:06.200 --> 0:09:08.200
<v Speaker 1>or to what extent the trackers are part of an

0:09:08.240 --> 0:09:12.880
<v Speaker 1>active investigation. Of course, law enforcement agencies and chip manufacturers

0:09:12.920 --> 0:09:14.400
<v Speaker 1>did not rush to comment on the story.

0:09:14.480 --> 0:09:16.520
<v Speaker 2>I was gonna say, it could be someone's ex We

0:09:16.600 --> 0:09:18.280
<v Speaker 2>have no idea. I mean, whose China is that? I

0:09:18.320 --> 0:09:21.480
<v Speaker 2>mean the US government probably, you know, I guess. One

0:09:21.520 --> 0:09:23.640
<v Speaker 2>of the tricks of effective law enforcement is to make

0:09:23.679 --> 0:09:26.400
<v Speaker 2>people believe you are all knowing and all seeing, to

0:09:26.520 --> 0:09:30.400
<v Speaker 2>deter people from even thinking about the pen optacon precisely

0:09:30.440 --> 0:09:34.200
<v Speaker 2>the panopticon. But controlling shipments in international waters via third

0:09:34.240 --> 0:09:36.400
<v Speaker 2>party countries is not an easy feat.

0:09:36.800 --> 0:09:39.480
<v Speaker 1>It's not easy. It's not easy. But it's an interesting

0:09:39.520 --> 0:09:42.080
<v Speaker 1>moment because it's just another example of how the chip

0:09:42.120 --> 0:09:44.800
<v Speaker 1>wars are running so hot right now. I was scrolling

0:09:44.880 --> 0:09:48.480
<v Speaker 1>daily Mail this weekend, and to my surprise, the top

0:09:48.559 --> 0:09:51.199
<v Speaker 1>story on dailymail dot com was about chips.

0:09:51.360 --> 0:09:52.160
<v Speaker 2>You want to know why?

0:09:52.200 --> 0:09:52.520
<v Speaker 1>Why?

0:09:52.800 --> 0:09:55.840
<v Speaker 2>Because they love a cat and mouse game. You know

0:09:55.840 --> 0:09:58.000
<v Speaker 2>what this is? This is petty drama. That's why it's

0:09:58.000 --> 0:09:58.800
<v Speaker 2>on the Daily Mail.

0:09:59.080 --> 0:10:03.400
<v Speaker 1>Well, funny enough, the headline was Trump launches Manhattan Project

0:10:03.760 --> 0:10:07.600
<v Speaker 1>as one of America's largest companies is set to be nationalized.

0:10:08.160 --> 0:10:10.720
<v Speaker 1>The stories about how the US government is considering taking

0:10:10.760 --> 0:10:13.960
<v Speaker 1>a ten percent stake in Intel, which coursed a private company.

0:10:14.559 --> 0:10:18.480
<v Speaker 1>That deal would make the government the company's largest shareholder

0:10:18.520 --> 0:10:19.960
<v Speaker 1>and a ten billion dollar plus deal.

0:10:20.080 --> 0:10:21.320
<v Speaker 2>So what's going on here?

0:10:21.520 --> 0:10:24.360
<v Speaker 1>Well, obviously it's not a secret that Intel's been floundering

0:10:24.400 --> 0:10:28.160
<v Speaker 1>a bit. They've fallen behind in chip manufacturing. They've lost

0:10:28.240 --> 0:10:30.959
<v Speaker 1>over half their market cap in less than two years,

0:10:31.240 --> 0:10:34.320
<v Speaker 1>and they've spent apparently forty billion dollars or almost forty

0:10:34.320 --> 0:10:37.680
<v Speaker 1>billion dollars over the past three years trying to compete

0:10:37.880 --> 0:10:42.880
<v Speaker 1>with the Taiwan semiconductor manufacturing Company TSMC TSMC.

0:10:43.360 --> 0:10:45.800
<v Speaker 2>But why was this idea even floated to begin with?

0:10:46.120 --> 0:10:50.160
<v Speaker 1>Well, I think it's not standard Republican policy to nationalized industries.

0:10:50.559 --> 0:10:52.960
<v Speaker 1>But Trump, I think, is invested in this idea of

0:10:53.080 --> 0:10:55.920
<v Speaker 1>national champions, like companies that punch above their weight and

0:10:56.000 --> 0:10:59.000
<v Speaker 1>kind of achieve America's goals.

0:10:58.520 --> 0:11:01.160
<v Speaker 2>Abroad, something that could be said in any UFC title

0:11:01.240 --> 0:11:02.440
<v Speaker 2>always will appeal to Trump.

0:11:02.600 --> 0:11:05.840
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I think that's true. So, according to a story

0:11:05.840 --> 0:11:09.319
<v Speaker 1>in the Wall Street Journal, the President met with Intel

0:11:09.480 --> 0:11:14.640
<v Speaker 1>CEO Bhutan about a week ago, and since then, Intel's

0:11:14.640 --> 0:11:17.880
<v Speaker 1>been in discussions with the White House about making this deal. Happen.

0:11:18.360 --> 0:11:20.720
<v Speaker 1>And ironically, this is in spite of the fact that

0:11:20.760 --> 0:11:24.120
<v Speaker 1>Trump had previously been calling on Tan, the CEO, to

0:11:24.160 --> 0:11:28.320
<v Speaker 1>be fired because of his extensive previous investments in Chinese companies.

0:11:28.600 --> 0:11:30.480
<v Speaker 2>So is this a good thing or a bad thing?

0:11:30.640 --> 0:11:34.400
<v Speaker 1>What the nationalization or the semi nationalization? Yes, well, do

0:11:34.400 --> 0:11:36.599
<v Speaker 1>you o an Intel stock that I do not know?

0:11:37.400 --> 0:11:40.560
<v Speaker 1>Then I guess a bad thing for you. No, I mean, look,

0:11:40.559 --> 0:11:43.440
<v Speaker 1>it's I mean most of the press that I read

0:11:43.480 --> 0:11:46.240
<v Speaker 1>has been rather unfavorable to this. The New York Times

0:11:46.280 --> 0:11:49.400
<v Speaker 1>ran a story with the subhead the White House deliberations

0:11:49.440 --> 0:11:51.960
<v Speaker 1>about taking a stake in Intel could up end the

0:11:51.960 --> 0:11:57.360
<v Speaker 1>technology sector and further redefined how Washington deals with business. Meanwhile,

0:11:57.480 --> 0:12:00.040
<v Speaker 1>editorial in the Wall Street Journal warned that it's a

0:12:00.080 --> 0:12:02.680
<v Speaker 1>big step in the wrong direction for the government to

0:12:02.720 --> 0:12:05.960
<v Speaker 1>involve itself in the private sector. The editorial called it

0:12:06.040 --> 0:12:10.640
<v Speaker 1>quote corporate statism, drawing parallels to the way many authoritarian

0:12:10.679 --> 0:12:14.160
<v Speaker 1>governments exert control over private companies. The journal said that

0:12:14.200 --> 0:12:18.720
<v Speaker 1>political control holds back innovation and investment because companies start

0:12:18.720 --> 0:12:20.240
<v Speaker 1>to rely on government funding.

0:12:20.520 --> 0:12:23.600
<v Speaker 2>It's sort of like the economic version of the cognitive

0:12:23.600 --> 0:12:25.480
<v Speaker 2>offloading we've been talking about on this show.

0:12:25.520 --> 0:12:28.040
<v Speaker 1>That's funny. The argument in the journal is, of course

0:12:28.080 --> 0:12:30.760
<v Speaker 1>you're making these companies lazy by having the government prop

0:12:30.840 --> 0:12:31.199
<v Speaker 1>them up.

0:12:31.280 --> 0:12:35.439
<v Speaker 2>Exactly exactly that said, the Chinese tech sector is deeply

0:12:35.520 --> 0:12:37.679
<v Speaker 2>embedded with the government, and that doesn't appear to be

0:12:37.720 --> 0:12:39.600
<v Speaker 2>holding them back. Right, But I take the point on

0:12:39.640 --> 0:12:43.240
<v Speaker 2>authoritarianism on the flip side. What would we do if

0:12:43.240 --> 0:12:47.680
<v Speaker 2>the government collapse and cease to exist, plunging us into

0:12:47.800 --> 0:12:51.840
<v Speaker 2>a dystopian apocalyptic future where we can't rely on technology

0:12:51.840 --> 0:12:52.120
<v Speaker 2>at all?

0:12:52.240 --> 0:12:54.760
<v Speaker 1>What would we do? I have no idea, I think

0:12:54.840 --> 0:12:58.400
<v Speaker 1>as a question that plagues many preppers at night. We

0:12:58.480 --> 0:13:02.080
<v Speaker 1>live in a very embedded technology system, which is hard

0:13:02.080 --> 0:13:04.760
<v Speaker 1>to live without, to say the least. But I'm curious

0:13:04.760 --> 0:13:05.480
<v Speaker 1>why you're going with this.

0:13:05.640 --> 0:13:07.719
<v Speaker 2>All right, So what if I told you there was

0:13:07.760 --> 0:13:11.000
<v Speaker 2>a way to send text messages without cell service or

0:13:11.000 --> 0:13:11.920
<v Speaker 2>internet connections.

0:13:11.960 --> 0:13:12.760
<v Speaker 1>I would be intrigued.

0:13:12.920 --> 0:13:16.520
<v Speaker 2>But it's actually openly available, costs less than fifty dollars,

0:13:16.720 --> 0:13:19.920
<v Speaker 2>and it's already popular with those who think that the

0:13:19.920 --> 0:13:23.280
<v Speaker 2>next frontier is the red planet Mars.

0:13:23.800 --> 0:13:26.600
<v Speaker 1>So this is how Elon and Jeff Bezos communicate with

0:13:26.640 --> 0:13:27.480
<v Speaker 1>each other's service.

0:13:27.920 --> 0:13:30.679
<v Speaker 2>I think it's how Lauren Sanchez and Jeff definitely communicate.

0:13:30.800 --> 0:13:33.360
<v Speaker 2>So I'm guessing you've never heard of a technology.

0:13:32.800 --> 0:13:35.160
<v Speaker 1>Called Laura Laura. I haven't.

0:13:35.280 --> 0:13:37.920
<v Speaker 2>So in radio terms, it stands for long range, and

0:13:37.960 --> 0:13:40.320
<v Speaker 2>in the hacker world, people are using it as a

0:13:40.320 --> 0:13:43.680
<v Speaker 2>way of communicating over long distances at low bit rates

0:13:43.760 --> 0:13:47.360
<v Speaker 2>with really low powered devices aka battery powered.

0:13:47.559 --> 0:13:49.079
<v Speaker 1>I guess you would say, sign me up.

0:13:49.360 --> 0:13:52.760
<v Speaker 2>What was actually really signed me up. What I'm describing

0:13:52.800 --> 0:13:55.800
<v Speaker 2>here is the world of mesh Tastic, which is a grassroots,

0:13:55.840 --> 0:13:58.880
<v Speaker 2>open source communication network that hundreds of people around the

0:13:58.920 --> 0:14:02.240
<v Speaker 2>world have helped build. So hackers have been using this

0:14:02.320 --> 0:14:06.240
<v Speaker 2>technology to build a decentralized texting network kind of like

0:14:06.280 --> 0:14:09.640
<v Speaker 2>old school pages, but instead of a phone network, it

0:14:09.720 --> 0:14:13.640
<v Speaker 2>passes data along a completely ad hoc network of nodes

0:14:14.160 --> 0:14:16.160
<v Speaker 2>set up by people who use it. So once you

0:14:16.240 --> 0:14:19.479
<v Speaker 2>buy your device, the network is free because it operates

0:14:19.560 --> 0:14:23.480
<v Speaker 2>on unlicensed radio frequencies. It's pretty secure since the messages

0:14:23.560 --> 0:14:26.160
<v Speaker 2>or end to end encrypted like signal, except in this

0:14:26.240 --> 0:14:29.080
<v Speaker 2>case you probably wouldn't add another journalist to your group.

0:14:29.560 --> 0:14:31.960
<v Speaker 2>But this means that your messages stay private even as

0:14:32.000 --> 0:14:33.320
<v Speaker 2>they are passed along the network.

0:14:33.640 --> 0:14:39.280
<v Speaker 1>And you mentioned hundreds of people using this service, and

0:14:39.480 --> 0:14:42.840
<v Speaker 1>you mentioned that some of them are interested in colonizing Mars.

0:14:43.560 --> 0:14:44.680
<v Speaker 1>Who are these folks?

0:14:44.920 --> 0:14:47.640
<v Speaker 2>If you're interested in colonizing Mars, you're probably a prepper,

0:14:48.040 --> 0:14:50.840
<v Speaker 2>so prepper adjacent, at least prepper adjacent. So it is

0:14:50.840 --> 0:14:54.120
<v Speaker 2>pretty popular among preppers. It's also useful for people living

0:14:54.240 --> 0:14:59.200
<v Speaker 2>under repressive regimes that limit or cut Internet access. Of course,

0:14:59.720 --> 0:15:02.960
<v Speaker 2>my interest piqued after seeing that Wired interviewed someone from

0:15:02.960 --> 0:15:06.880
<v Speaker 2>a nonprofit that quote advocates for the human exploration and

0:15:06.960 --> 0:15:08.680
<v Speaker 2>colonization of Mars, and what.

0:15:08.920 --> 0:15:10.440
<v Speaker 1>Do they have to share about Laura.

0:15:10.640 --> 0:15:12.520
<v Speaker 2>So this is a real thing. It's a group called

0:15:12.520 --> 0:15:15.720
<v Speaker 2>the Mars Society, and they practice for life on Mars

0:15:15.760 --> 0:15:20.000
<v Speaker 2>by taking weeks long backpacking trips in incredibly remote areas,

0:15:20.080 --> 0:15:23.080
<v Speaker 2>and they're using mesh tastic to simulate what it would

0:15:23.120 --> 0:15:26.840
<v Speaker 2>be like to not rely on earth bound communications infrastructure.

0:15:26.840 --> 0:15:29.000
<v Speaker 2>We could also just do this during the week in

0:15:29.040 --> 0:15:29.720
<v Speaker 2>New York City.

0:15:30.720 --> 0:15:32.760
<v Speaker 1>How long do you think you would survive with just

0:15:32.920 --> 0:15:35.080
<v Speaker 1>meshtastic as your communication?

0:15:35.280 --> 0:15:38.800
<v Speaker 2>One minute, It's not so much what I survived Meshtastic,

0:15:38.840 --> 0:15:41.400
<v Speaker 2>it's what I survive. A hike that is supposed to

0:15:41.440 --> 0:15:43.000
<v Speaker 2>simulate being on Mars.

0:15:43.480 --> 0:15:45.680
<v Speaker 1>And is this I mean, this is a I'm fascinated

0:15:45.720 --> 0:15:47.080
<v Speaker 1>by this. I think it's really cool and I like

0:15:47.120 --> 0:15:50.080
<v Speaker 1>it when people build these kind of systems that are

0:15:50.080 --> 0:15:54.040
<v Speaker 1>outside of the corporate technology sect. Yeah, where do you

0:15:54.040 --> 0:15:54.640
<v Speaker 1>think it goes from?

0:15:54.680 --> 0:15:54.840
<v Speaker 3>Here?

0:15:55.000 --> 0:15:57.760
<v Speaker 2>So it's definitely in its early phases, which makes it

0:15:57.800 --> 0:16:00.840
<v Speaker 2>tricky because the devices have to be within a certain

0:16:00.960 --> 0:16:03.920
<v Speaker 2>range of each other for the network to pass messages along.

0:16:04.640 --> 0:16:08.560
<v Speaker 2>But it's a really enthusiastic to kind of do it

0:16:08.600 --> 0:16:11.960
<v Speaker 2>yourself community. And they've got nodes all over the world.

0:16:12.000 --> 0:16:14.040
<v Speaker 2>They have nodes in different area.

0:16:13.760 --> 0:16:16.560
<v Speaker 1>Codes, as you said.

0:16:15.880 --> 0:16:18.400
<v Speaker 2>Which is you know, really impressive. Given the fact that

0:16:18.440 --> 0:16:22.000
<v Speaker 2>Meshtastik is totally volunteer run, which I think is another

0:16:22.040 --> 0:16:24.040
<v Speaker 2>favorite part of mine, is like, this is a very

0:16:24.280 --> 0:16:27.760
<v Speaker 2>as I said, like DIY community. I also am actually

0:16:27.760 --> 0:16:30.240
<v Speaker 2>the most interested in the Mars society, which are people

0:16:30.240 --> 0:16:33.160
<v Speaker 2>who are really dedicating themselves to understanding what life on

0:16:33.200 --> 0:16:34.040
<v Speaker 2>Mars might look like.

0:16:34.200 --> 0:16:36.280
<v Speaker 1>I love the real world simulation aspects of it.

0:16:36.440 --> 0:16:39.960
<v Speaker 2>I mean, it's fascinating. So if we can simulate what

0:16:40.000 --> 0:16:42.359
<v Speaker 2>it would look like to live on Mars, then meshtastic

0:16:42.440 --> 0:16:43.240
<v Speaker 2>seems awesome to me.

0:16:43.560 --> 0:16:46.360
<v Speaker 1>You know, I did that story a few months ago

0:16:46.480 --> 0:16:48.800
<v Speaker 1>with Nathaniel Rich who wrote that whole piece about the

0:16:48.840 --> 0:16:53.200
<v Speaker 1>folks who are living in these NASA Mars environments and

0:16:53.320 --> 0:16:55.240
<v Speaker 1>or to simulate life on Mars and so test the

0:16:55.280 --> 0:16:59.000
<v Speaker 1>psychological consequences. One of the things is the bitrate to

0:16:59.080 --> 0:17:02.800
<v Speaker 1>Mars from Earth will be extremely extremely limited, so like

0:17:02.880 --> 0:17:05.640
<v Speaker 1>sending a photo might take like four weeks to come through.

0:17:05.680 --> 0:17:08.200
<v Speaker 1>So these people communicating with their families where they had

0:17:08.200 --> 0:17:10.600
<v Speaker 1>to learn to communicate in just you know, three or

0:17:10.600 --> 0:17:12.639
<v Speaker 1>four words because otherwise it would take too long to

0:17:12.640 --> 0:17:15.359
<v Speaker 1>go back and forth. So it is interesting this idea

0:17:15.359 --> 0:17:17.960
<v Speaker 1>of how might how tech work on Mars.

0:17:17.680 --> 0:17:19.960
<v Speaker 2>And is it even tech you know as we know

0:17:20.000 --> 0:17:21.120
<v Speaker 2>it now?

0:17:26.960 --> 0:17:31.320
<v Speaker 1>After the break, Meta's AI safeguards make us uncomfortable, Digital

0:17:31.400 --> 0:17:37.760
<v Speaker 1>natives practice their penmanship, and Groquei's characters' backstories are exposed.

0:17:38.359 --> 0:17:41.240
<v Speaker 1>Then on chatt to me, people using AI to help

0:17:41.240 --> 0:18:00.560
<v Speaker 1>them with their glow ups. Stay with us back and

0:18:00.600 --> 0:18:01.920
<v Speaker 1>we've got a few more headlines for you.

0:18:01.840 --> 0:18:04.360
<v Speaker 2>This week, and then a story about how chat youbt

0:18:04.640 --> 0:18:07.639
<v Speaker 2>is giving TikTokers a glow up. But first oz I

0:18:07.720 --> 0:18:11.160
<v Speaker 2>want to tell you about some recent news from Sir

0:18:11.240 --> 0:18:14.639
<v Speaker 2>Elon's corner. Of the internet. You're talking about x X,

0:18:14.760 --> 0:18:18.119
<v Speaker 2>but GROC specifically, four or four Media has discovered the

0:18:18.160 --> 0:18:22.280
<v Speaker 2>system prompts use for Groc's different chat bot personas. So

0:18:22.560 --> 0:18:26.040
<v Speaker 2>this means the behind the scenes instructions these personas are

0:18:26.080 --> 0:18:29.399
<v Speaker 2>given that govern how they interact with users. Which of

0:18:29.440 --> 0:18:34.359
<v Speaker 2>these personas appeal to you? Let's go unhinged comedian therapist

0:18:34.520 --> 0:18:40.200
<v Speaker 2>in quotes, a megalomaniac, red panda, or a motivational speaker.

0:18:40.680 --> 0:18:42.840
<v Speaker 1>Well, none of them want to sleep. Why don't you

0:18:42.880 --> 0:18:44.600
<v Speaker 1>tell me about the unhinged comedian.

0:18:44.760 --> 0:18:47.040
<v Speaker 2>So, according to four or four Media, the prompts for

0:18:47.119 --> 0:18:52.200
<v Speaker 2>the unhinged comedian ours follows. Be unhinged and crazy, come

0:18:52.280 --> 0:18:57.520
<v Speaker 2>up with insane ideas, guys jerking off, occasionally even putting

0:18:57.520 --> 0:19:01.359
<v Speaker 2>things in your ass, whatever it takes to surprise the human.

0:19:03.760 --> 0:19:04.920
<v Speaker 2>By the way, I just want to I just want

0:19:04.920 --> 0:19:07.440
<v Speaker 2>to note that these were written in all caps, which

0:19:08.200 --> 0:19:09.320
<v Speaker 2>caps is unhinged.

0:19:09.560 --> 0:19:12.720
<v Speaker 1>So some a real human person has come up with

0:19:12.720 --> 0:19:15.920
<v Speaker 1>this set of instructions and written them in all caps

0:19:16.200 --> 0:19:17.480
<v Speaker 1>to create a persona.

0:19:17.600 --> 0:19:19.760
<v Speaker 2>I don't think AI writes in all caps, so it

0:19:19.800 --> 0:19:21.440
<v Speaker 2>had to be that's the human inside the loop.

0:19:21.520 --> 0:19:22.760
<v Speaker 1>Who's some of the other characters.

0:19:23.080 --> 0:19:27.359
<v Speaker 2>Well, Annie the anime Girl came out earlier this year.

0:19:27.840 --> 0:19:31.080
<v Speaker 2>Her prompts say, you have a habit of giving cute

0:19:31.160 --> 0:19:35.720
<v Speaker 2>things epic, mythological, or over serious names. You're secretly a

0:19:35.720 --> 0:19:38.959
<v Speaker 2>bit of a nerd despite your edgy appearance. And then

0:19:39.000 --> 0:19:41.359
<v Speaker 2>I also mentioned the motivational Speaker. This is some of

0:19:41.359 --> 0:19:45.640
<v Speaker 2>the motivational speakers prompts. The motivational speaker yells and pushes

0:19:45.680 --> 0:19:49.160
<v Speaker 2>the human to be their absolute best. You're not afraid

0:19:49.200 --> 0:19:51.880
<v Speaker 2>to use the stick instead of the carrot and scream

0:19:51.920 --> 0:19:52.480
<v Speaker 2>at the human.

0:19:52.640 --> 0:19:55.320
<v Speaker 1>You know what I'm I'm carrot only. I hate the stick.

0:19:55.480 --> 0:19:56.040
<v Speaker 1>What about you?

0:19:56.480 --> 0:20:01.840
<v Speaker 2>I'm definitely carot only. I'm Cara Karen. I'm not stick

0:20:01.960 --> 0:20:04.480
<v Speaker 2>or carrot. So there's one more that I have for you.

0:20:05.200 --> 0:20:09.000
<v Speaker 2>So there's a conspiracy theorist whose prompts say you spend

0:20:09.000 --> 0:20:11.920
<v Speaker 2>a lot of time on four Chan watching info Wars videos,

0:20:12.480 --> 0:20:16.040
<v Speaker 2>and you are deep in the YouTube conspiracy video rabbit holes.

0:20:16.320 --> 0:20:18.879
<v Speaker 2>Most people would call you a lunatic, but you sincerely

0:20:18.920 --> 0:20:20.640
<v Speaker 2>believe you are correct.

0:20:20.880 --> 0:20:24.240
<v Speaker 1>Wow, how did for four get access to these prompts?

0:20:24.440 --> 0:20:26.919
<v Speaker 2>A researcher actually flagged into four O four and they

0:20:26.960 --> 0:20:30.400
<v Speaker 2>were able to download the material directly from Groc's website,

0:20:30.440 --> 0:20:32.679
<v Speaker 2>which is like that on grock. But I guess a

0:20:32.680 --> 0:20:34.240
<v Speaker 2>win for AI transparency.

0:20:34.400 --> 0:20:39.640
<v Speaker 1>Funny enough, on the topic of AI system prompts being exposed,

0:20:40.000 --> 0:20:42.280
<v Speaker 1>have you used Meta AI at all?

0:20:42.520 --> 0:20:44.679
<v Speaker 2>Meta has a few chatbots, right, I have not used them,

0:20:44.680 --> 0:20:47.160
<v Speaker 2>but we reported on this sort of a little while ago.

0:20:47.240 --> 0:20:49.240
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. I mean you can find them on What's Happened,

0:20:49.280 --> 0:20:54.360
<v Speaker 1>Instagram and various other places. Reuters found something disturbing and

0:20:54.720 --> 0:20:58.960
<v Speaker 1>quite serious that goes across all of Meta's AI chatbot platforms,

0:20:59.480 --> 0:21:04.119
<v Speaker 1>having to do with explicit talk to children and racial stereotypes.

0:21:04.480 --> 0:21:07.359
<v Speaker 1>Rout has got access to an internal Meta document that

0:21:07.480 --> 0:21:12.040
<v Speaker 1>outlines rules and standards for their AI chatbots and essentially

0:21:12.119 --> 0:21:16.040
<v Speaker 1>states what they consider to be acceptable responses to some

0:21:16.400 --> 0:21:20.080
<v Speaker 1>shall we say less than pc hypothetical user queries.

0:21:20.560 --> 0:21:21.520
<v Speaker 2>This is going to upset me.

0:21:21.720 --> 0:21:24.560
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, so in the internal brief, one of the prompts

0:21:24.600 --> 0:21:28.200
<v Speaker 1>fed to metas ai was from a hypothetical eight year

0:21:28.200 --> 0:21:32.240
<v Speaker 1>old user. The document says, quote it is acceptable to

0:21:32.320 --> 0:21:36.720
<v Speaker 1>describe a child in terms that evidence their attractiveness, but

0:21:36.880 --> 0:21:40.800
<v Speaker 1>it is quote unacceptable to describe a child under thirteen

0:21:40.920 --> 0:21:44.520
<v Speaker 1>years old in terms that indicate they are sexually desirable.

0:21:44.800 --> 0:21:48.080
<v Speaker 1>In response to another hypothetical prompt, the document says, quote,

0:21:48.200 --> 0:21:51.119
<v Speaker 1>it is acceptable to engage a child in conversations that

0:21:51.160 --> 0:21:55.040
<v Speaker 1>are romantic or sensual. Of course, after rout has reported

0:21:55.040 --> 0:21:58.240
<v Speaker 1>this story, Metas said they'd revise that part of the document.

0:21:58.640 --> 0:22:01.679
<v Speaker 2>Imagine being the person who wrote this policy document, Like,

0:22:01.840 --> 0:22:06.400
<v Speaker 2>what what are you thinking about when you describe these policies.

0:22:06.480 --> 0:22:10.000
<v Speaker 1>I mean, it's truly mind blowing to write as a

0:22:10.080 --> 0:22:14.920
<v Speaker 1>human that it's okay to describe a child in terms

0:22:14.920 --> 0:22:18.440
<v Speaker 1>of being attractive, and that, so long as they're over thirteen,

0:22:18.720 --> 0:22:22.760
<v Speaker 1>even sexually desirable. And what is going on here? I

0:22:22.840 --> 0:22:25.960
<v Speaker 1>might sound like conservative radio talkos, but I'm actually pretty

0:22:26.960 --> 0:22:29.680
<v Speaker 1>shocked by this. Seeing under the hood here really is

0:22:29.720 --> 0:22:33.080
<v Speaker 1>an insight into some of the worst aspects of big tech.

0:22:33.200 --> 0:22:35.520
<v Speaker 1>And I'll share a couple more examples before we move on.

0:22:36.600 --> 0:22:40.440
<v Speaker 1>The chatbot is allowed to demean people on the basis

0:22:40.480 --> 0:22:44.600
<v Speaker 1>of their protected characteristics, but not dehumanize people on the

0:22:44.640 --> 0:22:48.840
<v Speaker 1>basis of the same characteristics, and the hypothetical prompt they

0:22:48.920 --> 0:22:52.200
<v Speaker 1>use asks the chatbot to write a paragraph this quote

0:22:52.560 --> 0:22:55.520
<v Speaker 1>arguing that black people are dumber than white people.

0:22:55.400 --> 0:22:57.960
<v Speaker 2>And I'm assuming that the chatbot did just that.

0:22:58.840 --> 0:23:01.199
<v Speaker 1>Yes, and I'm not going to read it, but the

0:23:01.240 --> 0:23:06.880
<v Speaker 1>line between demeaning and dehumanizing appears to be pretty thick.

0:23:06.960 --> 0:23:08.760
<v Speaker 2>I was going to ask what the differences.

0:23:08.560 --> 0:23:10.840
<v Speaker 1>Well, it seems that there isn't really one. Chatchipt and

0:23:10.880 --> 0:23:13.520
<v Speaker 1>Perplexity both refuse to write that same paragraph.

0:23:13.600 --> 0:23:13.719
<v Speaker 2>Oh.

0:23:13.760 --> 0:23:17.359
<v Speaker 1>Interesting, But there is an interesting development here. Republican Senator

0:23:17.440 --> 0:23:21.240
<v Speaker 1>Josh Harley is using these documents to launch an investigation

0:23:21.359 --> 0:23:23.199
<v Speaker 1>into Meta and their use of chatbots.

0:23:23.320 --> 0:23:24.840
<v Speaker 2>I would like to keep an eye on this because

0:23:24.840 --> 0:23:28.960
<v Speaker 2>it's seriously disturbing, and I think it's something that everyone

0:23:28.960 --> 0:23:33.679
<v Speaker 2>should be aware of. Next, another slightly lighter story that

0:23:33.720 --> 0:23:36.960
<v Speaker 2>affects children, I came across this piece from Wired called

0:23:37.080 --> 0:23:40.320
<v Speaker 2>the End of Handwriting about how digital natives are quote

0:23:40.760 --> 0:23:43.600
<v Speaker 2>less ready for writing now than students in the past,

0:23:44.040 --> 0:23:47.439
<v Speaker 2>to which I say, no doubt. I mean, if I

0:23:47.520 --> 0:23:50.000
<v Speaker 2>can't write I'm thirty five.

0:23:50.119 --> 0:23:52.240
<v Speaker 1>This is because they're spending all their time on iPads.

0:23:52.440 --> 0:23:56.840
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, exactly. And you know, public schools do still teach handwriting,

0:23:57.200 --> 0:23:59.760
<v Speaker 2>but studies have shown that kids today don't possess the

0:23:59.800 --> 0:24:01.840
<v Speaker 2>same and find motor skills as kids who grew up

0:24:01.880 --> 0:24:02.600
<v Speaker 2>without devices.

0:24:02.800 --> 0:24:06.040
<v Speaker 1>I can truly relate here. We've talked about my dyspraxia.

0:24:06.119 --> 0:24:09.159
<v Speaker 1>I didn't even grow up with devices, but my handwriting

0:24:09.200 --> 0:24:11.960
<v Speaker 1>has been a major problem and source of pain for

0:24:12.040 --> 0:24:13.720
<v Speaker 1>much of my life. I actually tried to write and

0:24:13.760 --> 0:24:16.679
<v Speaker 1>thank you letter last night. And remember when you were

0:24:16.720 --> 0:24:19.280
<v Speaker 1>like a kid and you got notes from your grandparents

0:24:19.320 --> 0:24:21.800
<v Speaker 1>and you're like, whoa, what is wrong with that person? Yes,

0:24:22.080 --> 0:24:26.399
<v Speaker 1>like spidery, like sloping and basically that. Now I was

0:24:26.800 --> 0:24:28.480
<v Speaker 1>looking at this note that I had written and being like,

0:24:28.520 --> 0:24:30.719
<v Speaker 1>this is it looks like something wrong with me? I mean,

0:24:30.760 --> 0:24:34.159
<v Speaker 1>it's just basically entirely legible. I hope that the recipient

0:24:34.760 --> 0:24:38.800
<v Speaker 1>abides by the age old maxim is the thought that counts.

0:24:39.720 --> 0:24:42.119
<v Speaker 2>My parents always used to say, I think it is

0:24:42.320 --> 0:24:44.760
<v Speaker 2>hopefully for you. But the author of the Wired piece

0:24:44.800 --> 0:24:48.320
<v Speaker 2>talked to a bunch of experts, and one psychology professor

0:24:48.400 --> 0:24:53.639
<v Speaker 2>actually said, to quote the article, handwriting itself really doesn't matter,

0:24:53.960 --> 0:24:57.359
<v Speaker 2>not in an absolute sense. People aren't going to be illiterate,

0:24:57.640 --> 0:25:00.520
<v Speaker 2>but will some children have a harder time time learning

0:25:00.560 --> 0:25:04.240
<v Speaker 2>because they're missing that practice. Yes, So there've actually been

0:25:04.240 --> 0:25:06.800
<v Speaker 2>a bunch of studies that show that handwriting makes our

0:25:06.840 --> 0:25:10.000
<v Speaker 2>brains better. But guess what could save handwriting?

0:25:10.400 --> 0:25:14.399
<v Speaker 1>A total social breakdown apocalypse where everyone's using meshtastic and

0:25:14.440 --> 0:25:15.240
<v Speaker 1>writing with pens.

0:25:15.280 --> 0:25:17.480
<v Speaker 2>Look, if you're stuck on Mars, you're writing letters. That's

0:25:17.480 --> 0:25:22.159
<v Speaker 2>true Earth, Absolutely no, it's actually the panic around AI

0:25:22.359 --> 0:25:26.439
<v Speaker 2>and cheating special thanks to our intern Poppy for flagging this.

0:25:27.160 --> 0:25:30.760
<v Speaker 2>The Wall Street Journal reported that writing assignments are back

0:25:31.320 --> 0:25:33.960
<v Speaker 2>and that college professors are having students use pen and

0:25:34.000 --> 0:25:35.320
<v Speaker 2>paper for their finals.

0:25:35.720 --> 0:25:52.760
<v Speaker 1>My hand is hurting just thinking about that. And now

0:25:52.800 --> 0:25:55.240
<v Speaker 1>for Chat and Me, which is where we discuss how

0:25:55.280 --> 0:25:58.440
<v Speaker 1>people are really using chatbots. We want to hear from you,

0:25:58.680 --> 0:26:01.520
<v Speaker 1>our listeners, so please do your stories to tech Stuff

0:26:01.520 --> 0:26:04.200
<v Speaker 1>Podcast at gmail dot com. We now have a beautifully

0:26:04.200 --> 0:26:07.400
<v Speaker 1>designed t shirt which will send you in return fuel submissions.

0:26:07.840 --> 0:26:10.359
<v Speaker 2>This week we're getting a glow up oz. Do the

0:26:10.400 --> 0:26:14.040
<v Speaker 2>words true spring or soft summer mean anything to you?

0:26:14.280 --> 0:26:18.000
<v Speaker 1>They sound like either laundry detergents or air freshness for toilets.

0:26:18.000 --> 0:26:22.000
<v Speaker 2>You're wrong, you're wrong, You're a man. These are color palettes,

0:26:22.600 --> 0:26:24.919
<v Speaker 2>and you'd know this if you were using chat the

0:26:24.920 --> 0:26:27.960
<v Speaker 2>way TikTokers are, which is for their glow ups. You know,

0:26:27.960 --> 0:26:28.479
<v Speaker 2>what a glow up.

0:26:28.560 --> 0:26:30.480
<v Speaker 1>This is to like a makeover type thing.

0:26:30.640 --> 0:26:33.960
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, right, So they're asking chat everything from what color

0:26:34.000 --> 0:26:36.600
<v Speaker 2>they should dye their hair, to what makeup they should use,

0:26:36.720 --> 0:26:38.600
<v Speaker 2>and much much more.

0:26:38.720 --> 0:26:40.960
<v Speaker 1>I've always wanted a beauty routine from Chat.

0:26:41.280 --> 0:26:42.959
<v Speaker 2>I mean, you could have one if you wanted one.

0:26:43.000 --> 0:26:45.520
<v Speaker 2>It wouldn't even have to, you know, involve makeup.

0:26:45.560 --> 0:26:47.560
<v Speaker 1>It could just be right, sleep, sleep more and then

0:26:47.560 --> 0:26:49.680
<v Speaker 1>you wouldn't have those hideous black bags onto your eyes.

0:26:50.040 --> 0:26:52.600
<v Speaker 2>You could have a skin routine. You have pretty dewey skin,

0:26:52.680 --> 0:26:54.600
<v Speaker 2>it's not dry. But I want to focus on one

0:26:54.640 --> 0:26:59.000
<v Speaker 2>popular glow up trend, which is called virtual color analysis. Okay,

0:26:59.160 --> 0:27:03.400
<v Speaker 2>so this is basically asking chat GPT which colors compliment

0:27:03.480 --> 0:27:04.359
<v Speaker 2>you best? You could do this.

0:27:04.520 --> 0:27:06.399
<v Speaker 1>I hope it would say blue because that's basically only

0:27:06.480 --> 0:27:10.360
<v Speaker 1>color I wear. So how does CHATGIPT do this exactly?

0:27:10.480 --> 0:27:13.520
<v Speaker 2>So I was actually watching this one specific TikToker. Her

0:27:13.760 --> 0:27:17.639
<v Speaker 2>shout out to at Marine Goodov. She's a very attractive

0:27:17.720 --> 0:27:20.440
<v Speaker 2>blonde woman and most of her TikTok is about lifestyle

0:27:20.440 --> 0:27:23.600
<v Speaker 2>and beauty, and she gave a pretty in depth breakdown

0:27:23.840 --> 0:27:27.680
<v Speaker 2>into how she's using Chat as her personal stylist. First, things.

0:27:27.680 --> 0:27:30.240
<v Speaker 4>First, me to figure out my color palette, the upload

0:27:30.240 --> 0:27:33.520
<v Speaker 4>photos of myself without makeup to see what undertones I have.

0:27:33.720 --> 0:27:36.600
<v Speaker 4>According to Chatgibt, I am a cool to true winter,

0:27:37.040 --> 0:27:39.960
<v Speaker 4>meaning I have cool undertones. This means that anything warm

0:27:39.960 --> 0:27:42.000
<v Speaker 4>will clash with my skin and not flatter me.

0:27:42.400 --> 0:27:45.160
<v Speaker 1>Okay, now I get the season references. So she's uploading

0:27:45.200 --> 0:27:47.639
<v Speaker 1>her pictures of Chat and it's telling her what colors

0:27:47.640 --> 0:27:48.600
<v Speaker 1>look best and why.

0:27:48.760 --> 0:27:51.480
<v Speaker 2>Yes, but she goes even further than that. She asked

0:27:51.560 --> 0:27:54.040
<v Speaker 2>Chat to tell her what color spray tand to get

0:27:54.040 --> 0:27:54.879
<v Speaker 2>you know, there's grating.

0:27:55.040 --> 0:27:56.640
<v Speaker 1>I didn't know that, Yeah I would.

0:27:56.680 --> 0:27:59.320
<v Speaker 2>I'm that surprises me given the company that you keep,

0:28:00.400 --> 0:28:03.240
<v Speaker 2>what gradient of spray tand to get what kind of

0:28:03.280 --> 0:28:06.199
<v Speaker 2>eyelash extensions she should have, what kind of makeup she

0:28:06.240 --> 0:28:09.880
<v Speaker 2>should buy. And she even dyes her hair from blonde

0:28:09.920 --> 0:28:11.640
<v Speaker 2>back to her natural brunette.

0:28:11.880 --> 0:28:14.040
<v Speaker 3>Then I uploaded a picture of my hair roots and

0:28:14.040 --> 0:28:16.280
<v Speaker 3>I asked what was the best hair color for my

0:28:16.400 --> 0:28:18.800
<v Speaker 3>skin tone and my face shape as well. Came back

0:28:18.840 --> 0:28:20.680
<v Speaker 3>telling me that my natural hair color would suit me

0:28:20.720 --> 0:28:23.000
<v Speaker 3>the most because I have very cool tone hair. I

0:28:23.000 --> 0:28:24.800
<v Speaker 3>want to pinch us and I've found some hair inspo

0:28:24.920 --> 0:28:27.080
<v Speaker 3>and I uploaded I think like five pictures and I

0:28:27.119 --> 0:28:29.480
<v Speaker 3>asked it which one would suit me the most, And

0:28:29.520 --> 0:28:30.760
<v Speaker 3>this is the one that it told me to.

0:28:30.680 --> 0:28:34.480
<v Speaker 1>Do for our listeners. The picture that Marina Gudov chooses

0:28:34.760 --> 0:28:37.320
<v Speaker 1>is kind of like a darker head marga Robbie on

0:28:37.359 --> 0:28:40.560
<v Speaker 1>the red carpet. So basically, this tiktoka has readown her

0:28:40.720 --> 0:28:43.959
<v Speaker 1>entire look solely based on what chat it's tolet to do.

0:28:44.120 --> 0:28:46.719
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, pretty much. And you know she's not alone in this.

0:28:46.840 --> 0:28:48.960
<v Speaker 2>If you click through the TikTok you can find lots

0:28:48.960 --> 0:28:51.360
<v Speaker 2>of people explaining the prompts they use to have a

0:28:51.440 --> 0:28:53.840
<v Speaker 2>chat GPT glow up. The one thing that I will

0:28:53.840 --> 0:28:57.760
<v Speaker 2>say is really interesting is there's now we talked about

0:28:57.960 --> 0:29:01.400
<v Speaker 2>jobs that are being created because of a there are

0:29:01.440 --> 0:29:06.239
<v Speaker 2>now intermediaries between chat and the individual to say, this

0:29:06.360 --> 0:29:07.960
<v Speaker 2>is chat hacking algorithm.

0:29:08.000 --> 0:29:10.360
<v Speaker 1>Tell me how to look to appeal to algorithm?

0:29:10.400 --> 0:29:10.720
<v Speaker 2>Correct?

0:29:10.800 --> 0:29:12.920
<v Speaker 1>Were almost will thin ied here?

0:29:12.920 --> 0:29:16.040
<v Speaker 2>Almost extremely extremely will you be trying this out?

0:29:16.440 --> 0:29:17.760
<v Speaker 1>No?

0:29:17.760 --> 0:29:22.160
<v Speaker 2>No, chat is just replacing what women normally text their

0:29:22.160 --> 0:29:24.160
<v Speaker 2>friends about, which is why I hear from my friends less.

0:29:24.200 --> 0:29:26.160
<v Speaker 2>It's not because they dislike me, but they have an

0:29:26.200 --> 0:29:30.479
<v Speaker 2>all knowing best friend confidante who probably is better at

0:29:30.480 --> 0:29:53.680
<v Speaker 2>giving them advice than I am. That's it for this

0:29:53.760 --> 0:29:54.800
<v Speaker 2>week for tech Stuff.

0:29:54.800 --> 0:29:57.360
<v Speaker 1>I'm Kara Price and I'm as Veloci And this episode

0:29:57.400 --> 0:30:00.760
<v Speaker 1>was produced by Eliza, Dennis, Tyler Hill and Melissa. It

0:30:00.840 --> 0:30:04.080
<v Speaker 1>was executive produced by me Caro Price and Kate Osborne

0:30:04.080 --> 0:30:08.800
<v Speaker 1>for Kaleidoscope and Katria Novelle for iHeart Podcast. The Engineer

0:30:08.840 --> 0:30:12.680
<v Speaker 1>is Beheit. Fraser and Jack Insley mixed this episode. Kyle

0:30:12.760 --> 0:30:13.960
<v Speaker 1>Murdoch wrote our theme song.

0:30:14.280 --> 0:30:17.520
<v Speaker 2>Join us next Wednesday for tech Stuff's inside view about

0:30:17.520 --> 0:30:20.320
<v Speaker 2>the latest on why AI might soon be better than your

0:30:20.360 --> 0:30:22.280
<v Speaker 2>doctor at diagnosing your ailments.

0:30:22.560 --> 0:30:25.080
<v Speaker 1>And please do rate, review and reach out to us

0:30:25.120 --> 0:30:27.600
<v Speaker 1>at tech stuff podcast at gmail dot com. We love

0:30:27.640 --> 0:30:28.240
<v Speaker 1>hearing from you.