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Speaker 1: Hi. This is Laura Vandercamp. I'm a mother of five,

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Speaker 1: an author, journalist, and speaker.

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Speaker 2: And this is Sarah Hartunger. I'm a mother of three,

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Speaker 2: a practicing physician and blogger. On the side, we are

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Speaker 2: two working parents who love our careers and our families.

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Speaker 1: Welcome to best of both worlds. Here we talk about

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Speaker 1: how real women manage work, family, and time for fun,

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Speaker 1: from figuring out childcare to mapping out long term career goals.

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Speaker 1: We want you to get the most out of life.

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Speaker 1: Welcome to best of both worlds. This is Laura. This

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Speaker 1: episode is airing in early October of twenty twenty three.

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Speaker 1: Sarah and I are going to be doing a mailbag episode,

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Speaker 1: but more exciting than that, we are in the same location.

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Speaker 1: We are sitting here in a hotel in Boston, So

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Speaker 1: if this sound is a little different than you usually experienced,

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Speaker 1: that's why it is. We're trying to figure out how

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Speaker 1: to place our microphone and our notes and all that

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Speaker 1: so we can both talk into it. But thanks for

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Speaker 1: bearing with us. So Hi, Sarah. Hi.

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Speaker 2: Yes, we have like a perfect triangulation thing going where

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Speaker 2: I feel like we're trying to keep our mouths each.

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Speaker 1: About equidistant equidistant from this microfa. The question is who

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Speaker 1: leans in when they're talking and who doesn't. It's an

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Speaker 1: interesting question that you don't always experience when you're on

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Speaker 1: remote places with the way we normally record. But we

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Speaker 1: thought we'd start with a few quick life updates, you know,

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Speaker 1: a month or so into the school year, A little

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Speaker 1: bit more for you, maybe six weeks into the school year.

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Speaker 1: How's life going.

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Speaker 2: It's been a pretty busy school year so far. I

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Speaker 2: do feel like we have reached a new level in

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Speaker 2: evening activity, in part because.

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Speaker 1: Of travel sports.

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Speaker 2: I was saying, I think I'm adjusting to the life

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Speaker 2: of a travel sports parent, but also because there are

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Speaker 2: more dance and gymnastics classes in the evening than I

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Speaker 2: have been used to, so we do have something almost

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Speaker 2: every night. In fact, I would say every night except

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Speaker 2: for Friday, and our Sundays are very empty, which is

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Speaker 2: nice because I really enjoy the recovery day. But it's

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Speaker 2: been steady and it's been okay. Our nanny has been

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Speaker 2: a key player in this because we absolutely need a

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Speaker 2: third driver. Even if Josh and I both were able

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Speaker 2: to somehow miraculously leave work early, we would probably still

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Speaker 2: need a third person helping most days, just because things

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Speaker 2: are located in various places. We've been working on trying

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Speaker 2: to establish some carpool relationships with some success, but nothing

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Speaker 2: is really solidified yet, and so right now it's just

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Speaker 2: it's a lot of driving around and a lot of

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Speaker 2: evening thunderstorms that make sports very unpredictable.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so you have to have two schedules. What happens

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Speaker 1: if the game happens. What you do if the game

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Speaker 1: does not happen, Because if that happens enough times, then

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Speaker 1: obviously you can have some backup plans for like this

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Speaker 1: is what an evening will look like if we don't

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Speaker 1: do that. Yeah, we've got a lot of we don't

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Speaker 1: even have all our activities going at and the driving

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Speaker 1: is still a little intent. It's The exciting news is

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Speaker 1: that my eldest will hopefully have his driver's license within

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Speaker 1: about two months of this episode airing, and so he

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Speaker 1: can at least help with some of the evening and

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Speaker 1: weekend driving, which is going to be great and that

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Speaker 1: is a possibility. So yeah, we're you know, the school

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Speaker 1: year is so far, so good. I mean nobody, I

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Speaker 1: think nobody's like over the top thrilled, but no one's

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Speaker 1: really unhappy either, So I mean, I think over the

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Speaker 1: top thrilled would be a lot to ask for. In

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Speaker 1: terms of children going to school. Maybe some of our

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Speaker 1: listeners have children who bound out of bed every morning

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Speaker 1: so excited to go to school, but I think many

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Speaker 1: of us in life do not really bound out of bed.

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Speaker 1: We'll have a question about whether we wish to ever

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Speaker 1: bound out of bed later in this episode, so we've

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Speaker 1: go ahead and dive right into the mail bag. As always,

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Speaker 1: you can send us questions. I'm Laura at Laura vandercam

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Speaker 1: dot com. You can post them on Sarah's blog. You

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Speaker 1: want to join our Patreon community, I'm on social media.

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Speaker 1: I can get them that way. First question, school choice.

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Speaker 1: This person writes in I am another Monossori mom. This

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Speaker 1: is addressed to Sarah. We have fourth grade, kindergarten and

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Speaker 1: an infant. Can you both talk about how you have

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Speaker 1: managed school choices in the context of bigger families with

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Speaker 1: kids who may have different needs. So sorry, yours are

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Speaker 1: all in the same place. Correct, they are, and it

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Speaker 1: is a Montessori school. It's not that I'm necessarily wedded

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Speaker 1: to Montessori philosophy. I think it has some great aspects

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Speaker 1: of it, but it wasn't like I sought that out specifically.

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Speaker 1: I mean, my approach was.

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Speaker 2: To default to the public school or kind of the

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Speaker 2: most convenient option, but then kind of turned towards logistics

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Speaker 2: if that wasn't working for any one of the three children,

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Speaker 2: and so we ended up And I don't know what

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Speaker 2: role COVID played in this, Like I'm not sure if

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Speaker 2: we'd be at the same school where we are if

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Speaker 2: the pandemic hadn't happened. But regardless, we felt like, you know,

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Speaker 2: one kid just was not thriving in that context, and

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Speaker 2: investigated other options. Found the Montessori school where we were.

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Speaker 2: We're really impressed with it. Well, actually, Genevieve had already

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Speaker 2: been going there for preschool because it was kind of

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Speaker 2: you know, there is no public preschool.

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Speaker 1: So it was a good choice for her.

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Speaker 2: Moved over a kid, then moved over another kid, because

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Speaker 2: at the end of the day, logistics matter a lot

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Speaker 2: to me too, So having you know, one kid in

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Speaker 2: one school and another kid in another school, Yes, it

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Speaker 2: could have been cheaper and everybody's needs would have been met,

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Speaker 2: but my needs were not being met. Because everybody's calendar

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Speaker 2: was different, the drop offs were different, the daily routines

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Speaker 2: were completely more difficult, and so I would say that

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Speaker 2: it was about meeting the most toughest to meet its

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Speaker 2: needs and then putting everybody else there based on logistics.

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Speaker 2: So that's kind of how we figured it out. And

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Speaker 2: it will have to change though in a couple of years, right, yes,

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Speaker 2: but there'll be a question of whether I want to

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Speaker 2: move everybody to a K to twelve school, okay, or

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Speaker 2: have to in one and one on the other. And

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Speaker 2: I think that will depend on bussing options and such.

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Speaker 1: Okay, sounds good a couple of years down the road

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Speaker 1: for you, yeah. I mean, my very strong default is

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Speaker 1: the local public schools, and one of the reasons we

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Speaker 1: moved to our area is that it's known for having

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Speaker 1: good schools with a lot of challenging classes and a

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Speaker 1: lot of families who do care a great deal about

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Speaker 1: education and how their children are doing, and so there's

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Speaker 1: a lot of just back up for the schools that

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Speaker 1: way and resources associated with it. So it would take

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Speaker 1: a lot to leave that. If one child was having

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Speaker 1: a lot of trouble with it, then I would definitely

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Speaker 1: investigate it, and there are a lot of private school

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Speaker 1: options in our area that might, you know, if something

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Speaker 1: happened that I needed at I'm glad that we have

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Speaker 1: those available. The only time we do that was during COVID,

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Speaker 1: when I was not one hundred percent sure that the

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Speaker 1: public schools were going to open for full time instruction.

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Speaker 1: We decided to put Alex in a private kindergarten that

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Speaker 1: was pledging to be open and less like forcibly shut basically,

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Speaker 1: so that was what we needed for him. He had

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Speaker 1: experienced a little bit of zoom pre k and it

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Speaker 1: was terrible. Not that the teacher, the teachers are amazing,

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Speaker 1: but you know, a child can't he can't do that,

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Speaker 1: So you know, it was.

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Speaker 2: You were trying to avoid zoom kindergarten.

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Speaker 1: We were trying to avoid zoom kindergarten, and we did,

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Speaker 1: and as it turned out, our public schools wound up

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Speaker 1: opening the kindergarten completely for that same reason, because nobody

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Speaker 1: can do zoom kindergarten. But we did that for the

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Speaker 1: year and then put him in public school for first grade,

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Speaker 1: and hopefully we'll be able to continue to do that

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Speaker 1: for everyone through to twelfth grade.

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Speaker 2: Love it all, right, This is a fun question. It

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Speaker 2: makes me think of your second book, third book, Something

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Speaker 2: who Knows. If you had all the money in the world,

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Speaker 2: what would you have done or what do you do?

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Speaker 2: I guess kind of uncleared don't have all the money

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Speaker 2: in the world to make life easier with two big

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Speaker 2: jobs and lots of kids, I e. What kind of

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Speaker 2: outsourcing childcaret et cetera. Has been a great investment in

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Speaker 2: your happiness.

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Speaker 1: So there's a more interesting question here, Like, you have

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Speaker 1: all the money in the world, would you actually have

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Speaker 1: the two big jobs? I don't know. Like mine, I

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Speaker 1: love what I do regardless, I don't know. Maybe I

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Speaker 1: think Michael probably would do something as well. So in

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Speaker 1: our case, maybe we would still have the two big

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Speaker 1: jobs with all the money in the world. But I

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Speaker 1: think we both come down pretty strong on the side

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Speaker 1: of having enough childcare in the forum that supports your

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Speaker 1: life and not just keeps safe and healthy care of

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Speaker 1: them from working hours. So for most people that means

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Speaker 1: having a full time employee like a nan or if

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Speaker 1: your children are older, that might mean that you have

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Speaker 1: somebody who helps with the household and with driving, but

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Speaker 1: somebody who has that extra availability to not just support

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Speaker 1: the childcare needs, but also various household logistics. I mean,

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Speaker 1: some flexibility with it, so it's not only available certain hours,

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Speaker 1: so whatever that looks like. And people truly do work

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Speaker 1: long and unpredictable hours, and if you have two of

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Speaker 1: you doing that, it's probably going to be more than

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Speaker 1: one person, because you know, most people who have a

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Speaker 1: full time job don't want to work more than forty

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Speaker 1: to fifty hours a week. So if you need more

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Speaker 1: than that, then it's going to be more than one person.

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Speaker 1: But if you have all the money in the world,

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Speaker 1: then I guess that sounds hunky dory.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, options for hours outside of work or the ability

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Speaker 2: to take if I had all the money in the world, maybe,

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Speaker 2: I mean, but see it's not money, Like that's not money.

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Speaker 1: It's just thinking about it.

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Speaker 2: I'm like, oh, well, I could technically hire someone to

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Speaker 2: take more or more weekends away with my husband or something,

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Speaker 2: but like there are other reasons that I Yeah, this

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Speaker 2: is an interesting question because the question is what's stopping you.

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Speaker 1: What's stopping you from I mean, and it's more both

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Speaker 1: the logistics, because the more employees you have, the more

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Speaker 1: you're managing, and so you know, we've managed people at work,

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Speaker 1: and all of a sudden, you're doing the exact same

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Speaker 1: thing on the home front. If you have a whole

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Speaker 1: team there, you know, smaller number of people is somewhat

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Speaker 1: easier to keep track of. And also just that you

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Speaker 1: want to do stuff with your family members, and so yes,

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Speaker 1: could I find somewhere somebody who might drive an extra

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Speaker 1: shift of something? And sometimes I need it, but that

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Speaker 1: is a time that my teenagers might talk to me,

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Speaker 1: and so you know, if they're willing to talk to me,

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Speaker 1: then probably I should be the one doing it. And

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Speaker 1: so it's more that there needs to be a or there.

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Speaker 1: We feel there should be a parent doing it, and

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Speaker 1: sometimes it becomes a question of well is it equitable

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Speaker 1: which parent is taking that on? But again that's not

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Speaker 1: a money question.

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Speaker 2: So yeah, I feel like this would be a good

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Speaker 2: reality show, not that anybody would agree to be on it,

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Speaker 2: but like, how do billionaires run their household?

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Speaker 1: Well, I'm always curious, I mean, because again, you can

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Speaker 1: hire out a lot of stuff, and so sure you

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Speaker 1: may never be cooking or cleaning, but you still have

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Speaker 1: to exercise for yourself, right, Like nobody can exercise for you,

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Speaker 1: nobody can sleep for you. Nobody can be if you

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Speaker 1: want to be an involved parent, nobody can take on

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Speaker 1: some of that. Obviously, they can do certain things with

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Speaker 1: you know, your kids, and watch your kids while you're

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Speaker 1: working or you know, while you have a date night

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Speaker 1: or whatever. And maybe your date nights are better than

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Speaker 1: our date nights. But it like you still, Yeah, everyone

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Speaker 1: has twenty four hours in a day, so I would

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Speaker 1: watch that show, you'd watch the show. I mean, i'd

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Speaker 1: be curious too, But you know, we'll get back to

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Speaker 1: you on that. Speaking of date nights, why don't we

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Speaker 1: do this one more before we take the ad break,

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Speaker 1: We had a a question of how to come up

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Speaker 1: with affordable date night coverage, so people who are not billionaires.

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Speaker 1: This person is noting that her kid is starting to

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Speaker 1: age out of parents' night out type events that are

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Speaker 1: held in her community, but still too young to stay

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Speaker 1: at home alone babysitters in this area, which is, you know,

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Speaker 1: a higher cost area of living. Even teenagers are twenty

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Speaker 1: dollars plus an hour. So she says, I just wonder

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Speaker 1: what other people do. So I guess there's the rubric.

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Speaker 1: You've got to think of this if you're trying to

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Speaker 1: spend less on this, which we'll address the question of

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Speaker 1: whether that's something you want to do later. Is you

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Speaker 1: either figure out how to spend less on the coverage

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Speaker 1: or less on the date, right, because they're both things

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Speaker 1: that cost money. If you want to spend less on

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Speaker 1: the coverage, you might want to think outside the kind

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Speaker 1: of weekend night box. If this is a one kid family,

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Speaker 1: maybe that child is if they have travel soccer like Sarah,

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Speaker 1: you know, you could go for a walk together during

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Speaker 1: soccer practice, or go to a coffee shop nearby or

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Speaker 1: something like that. If the child is in school or

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Speaker 1: daycare or something, so there's already coverage during the day,

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Speaker 1: maybe the two of you can meet up for a

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Speaker 1: date lunch. Or if you can leave work at like

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Speaker 1: four o'clock someday and daycare pickup is five thirty, then

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Speaker 1: you could do a quick like drink somewhere before going

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Speaker 1: to pick up the child. You can swap play dates

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Speaker 1: with another family, or even just use the time like

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Speaker 1: presumably this child is occasionally invited over to other people's houses,

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Speaker 1: so if you know that's coming up this weekend, like

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Speaker 1: oh hey, he's going to play at Johnny's house from

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Speaker 1: three to five on Saturday, you're like, hey, guess what

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Speaker 1: we're going to be doing from three to five Saturday.

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Speaker 1: We'll have our couple time whatever that looks like together,

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Speaker 1: so or go on cheaper dates, right. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: I think it's interesting to like make sure you're really

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Speaker 2: looking at scale with something like this, because even though

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Speaker 2: it feels maybe it feels more dramatic because maybe you're

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Speaker 2: handing over cash and you're not used to handing over

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Speaker 2: cash for things, Like if you do the math of

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Speaker 2: how much it costs over the course of the year,

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Speaker 2: you may find that it's actually not a huge amount

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Speaker 2: of money in the grand scheme of things, or that

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Speaker 2: it does feel large, but it feels worthwhile. And so

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Speaker 2: I kind of did some fairly inflated math thinking like

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Speaker 2: if a family took twenty date nights a year and

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Speaker 2: really paid one hundred and fifty dollars for each night

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Speaker 2: of babysitting, which would be like, you know, at thirty

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Speaker 2: dollars an hour, that's a five hour date of County cocks.

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Speaker 1: You know, there may be seven hours at twenty dollars.

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Speaker 1: So we're being really like going you're going along far away.

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Speaker 2: Then that would be three thousand dollars a year. Which

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Speaker 2: is absolutely a lot of money. But for some couples,

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Speaker 2: like having that time together or like knowing that it's

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Speaker 2: going to happen is going to be really valuable for

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Speaker 2: their relationship and perhaps to that level, or if it's

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Speaker 2: going to be something that really prevents a relationship from

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Speaker 2: going downhill, couples, counseling sessions.

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Speaker 1: Are probably much more expensive than that I divorced, also

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Speaker 1: way more expensive than three thousand dollars, so something to

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Speaker 1: keep in mind.

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Speaker 2: So I guess I just think it's important to keep perspective.

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Speaker 1: Now.

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Speaker 2: A way to save money on dates other than using

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Speaker 2: cheaper childcare is to keep the dates really inexpensive. So

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Speaker 2: sometimes it might make sense to spend out for the childcare,

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Speaker 2: but then make your date be using a museum membership

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Speaker 2: that you already have to like tour the art museum

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Speaker 2: and then just get a drink instead of getting a

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Speaker 2: fancy dinner or like you know, sometimes we go out

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Speaker 2: to fancy meals out and that's really fun, and then

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Speaker 2: other times we like to go to like a group

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Speaker 2: hub and like you know, just something really casual that's

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Speaker 2: not going to break the bank. So I think that

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Speaker 2: like actually being analytical about this and figuring out cost

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Speaker 2: benefit ratios and works for you rather than being like

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Speaker 2: ough paying a teenager twenty dollars, like being a reflexive feeling,

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Speaker 2: It just makes sense to actually look.

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Speaker 1: At the numbers. Yeah, and it's not eternal either. I mean,

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Speaker 1: if this, if you have one child, and this child

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Speaker 1: is let's say seven years old, I mean in another

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Speaker 1: another four five years, they will be able to stay

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Speaker 1: home by themselves. So it's a time limited sort of thing.

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Speaker 1: So if you can get your head around, Okay, we're

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Speaker 1: gonna spend out a little bit for this to still

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Speaker 1: have time together as a couple, you know, until he

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Speaker 1: is old enough to stay home alone. And maybe that

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Speaker 1: can feel a little bit more like a number to

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Speaker 1: get your head around versus oh, we're going to be

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Speaker 1: watching money fly out the door forever. Yes, all right,

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Speaker 1: Well we're going to take a quick ad break and

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Speaker 1: we'll be back with more with this mailbag episode. All right,

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Speaker 1: So this next question was sent I think to Sarah again,

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Speaker 1: but maybe is something we can both address. How do

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Speaker 1: you differentiate goals from to do's. My list of goals

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Speaker 1: always ends up looking and feeling like a to do

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Speaker 1: list of stuff all the things I have to do. So,

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Speaker 1: as an example, she was recently setting monthly goals, and

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Speaker 1: the goals all looked like, schedule my daughter's birthday party,

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Speaker 1: finalize a budget for a house project, and get the

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Speaker 1: puppy signed up for training. All of those worthwhile endeavors,

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Speaker 1: but feel very administrative and not like she is moving

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Speaker 1: her life forward on any big personal goal sort of sense.

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Speaker 1: So talk about the difference between goals to dos and

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Speaker 1: how you deal with the fact that there are these

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Speaker 1: sort of compulsory to dos and you still have big goals.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, first, I think it's interesting to address

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Speaker 2: just like the difference between the two, which might be

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Speaker 2: somewhat artificial, but to me, I consider a to do

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Speaker 2: like a one and done task, like when you check

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Speaker 2: it off, it's finished and then you're moving on. And

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Speaker 2: a goal is something larger in your life that you're

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Speaker 2: hoping to achieve. And so I use an example, your

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Speaker 2: workout of the day, if you have our following a

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Speaker 2: training plan would be your to do and you check

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Speaker 2: it off and you're done. But your goal is to

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Speaker 2: qualify for Boston and run it by this year or whatever.

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Speaker 2: You know, it's a larger thing and I do think that,

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Speaker 2: like you're usually going to be writing down tasks that

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Speaker 2: relate to larger goals, but part of it is just

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Speaker 2: the practice of a spending time thinking about your larger goals,

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Speaker 2: which a lot of people really don't do. It takes time,

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Speaker 2: it takes bandwidth, it takes space, and looking at those

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Speaker 2: every once in a while. I mean, I advocate doing

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Speaker 2: it kind of in a structured way, like every week

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Speaker 2: you're going to look at the goals you wrote for

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Speaker 2: the month, so that you're not forgetting about what they are.

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Speaker 2: And then Laura has some very practical kind of tip

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Speaker 2: to well.

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Speaker 1: First I'll throw in a little advertisement here for Sarah's

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Speaker 1: Best Blade Plans courses, because she will teach you to

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Speaker 1: think a little bit more about setting goals even in

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Speaker 1: the middle of a busy life, and what that might

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Speaker 1: look like to have big goals that then you can

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Speaker 1: turn into to dos alongside the other to dos that

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Speaker 1: have to get done. I mean, and what you're talking

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Speaker 1: about some of those to dos, I mean, some of

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Speaker 1: those are in fact related to probably larger goals that

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Speaker 1: you do have. I mean, you want to have a

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Speaker 1: happy household of thriving children, and part of that is,

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Speaker 1: you know, having your daughter celebrate her birthday in a

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Speaker 1: way that she finds fun and memorable. And you've introduced

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Speaker 1: this puppy into the house probably as part of you know,

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Speaker 1: a goal to have you know, a household with animals

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Speaker 1: that you value that and the companionship of that, and

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Speaker 1: so you know, obviously the puppy needs to learn to

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Speaker 1: behave itself as part of that. So you know, that's

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Speaker 1: a goal to that. And you're making a warm and

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Speaker 1: welcoming home with space that works for you. And I'm

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Speaker 1: sure that your home renovation is part of that as well.

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Speaker 1: So sometimes it helps to have a little bit of

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Speaker 1: that perspective on what might seem like annoying to dos.

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Speaker 1: But you also just have to decide to make progress

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Speaker 1: on your big personal goals even in the middle of

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Speaker 1: all those to dos, and sometimes that means working on

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Speaker 1: them first, even if all the little to dos aren't done.

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Speaker 1: Because yes, you may need to call the bouncy house

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Speaker 1: place to schedule the birthday party, but when do you

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Speaker 1: have your most energy, because at nine am, like, maybe

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Speaker 1: don't call them at nine am, right, like, go work

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Speaker 1: on whatever the big goal is in the you know,

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Speaker 1: morning hours. Or whenever you have the most energy, and

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Speaker 1: then you got that time at the end of the

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Speaker 1: day you're like, oh, yeah, okay, I'm feeling a little like,

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Speaker 1: oh I need another cup of coffee. You check off

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Speaker 1: a couple of these things, then you call the bouncy

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Speaker 1: house place, right, let's still pick up the phone. Then,

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Speaker 1: so there are certain you know can make progress on

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Speaker 1: those to dos and kind of after you've done the

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Speaker 1: stuff that is the meat of moving forward on your

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Speaker 1: big goals.

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Speaker 2: Love it and I love this next question too. This

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Speaker 2: one came for our Patreon and I just it's a

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Speaker 2: great question. Do you ever have a day when you

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Speaker 2: just want to hide in bed and do pretty much nothing?

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Speaker 2: And she writes, although I guess that would still be intentional.

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Speaker 2: I have that dream, but if the opportunity actually presents itself,

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Speaker 2: it never really appeals. Maybe I need to plan it

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Speaker 2: in Laura, do you have a day when you just

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Speaker 2: want to hide in bed and do pretty much nothing?

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Speaker 1: No? I don't do really well with like sitting in bed.

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Speaker 1: I would get antsy, right, I want to get up.

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Speaker 1: And so I read this question more as like a

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Speaker 1: day when you don't do anything that you don't want

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Speaker 1: to which is a different matter. So I've had some

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Speaker 1: days when I do have complete control of my time,

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Speaker 1: not that many, but like if everyone's out of the

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Speaker 1: house for like multiple days and I'm there, and you know,

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Speaker 1: obviously I run my own business. Sometimes I interact with

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Speaker 1: the outside world. I have scheduled calls and meetings and

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Speaker 1: things like that all the time. But if i didn't

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Speaker 1: have any of those on a day, I'd left it

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Speaker 1: open for some reason, I would, you know, I think

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Speaker 1: about what I would do. I'd probably wake up when

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Speaker 1: I woke up, but then I'd go for a run somewhere.

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Speaker 1: I'd come back. I would in fact work because I

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Speaker 1: like what I do, and do that for a couple hours.

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Speaker 1: Then maybe putter around and do some fun things, like

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Speaker 1: i'd play the piano, and I'd maybe I'd go somewhere

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Speaker 1: like go walk in a pretty garden or go to

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Speaker 1: an art museum, figure out something really cool for dinner,

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Speaker 1: probably read at the night. You know, that's the sort

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Speaker 1: of thing I would do with the day. So it's

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Speaker 1: not that i'd be completely in bed, but if I'm

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Speaker 1: getting at what I think, it is fun to create

435
00:21:48,080 --> 00:21:51,840
Speaker 1: a day where you don't have any should I've heard

436
00:21:51,880 --> 00:21:55,800
Speaker 1: somebody call it a should list day, but that might

437
00:21:55,840 --> 00:21:58,439
Speaker 1: be something you would enjoy thinking about what would you

438
00:21:58,480 --> 00:22:00,320
Speaker 1: do on a should list day? And maybe it's that

439
00:22:00,359 --> 00:22:02,560
Speaker 1: you'd stay in bed all day, but maybe it isn't.

440
00:22:02,600 --> 00:22:02,960
Speaker 1: I don't know.

441
00:22:03,840 --> 00:22:06,120
Speaker 2: So I absolutely have days when I want to hide

442
00:22:06,119 --> 00:22:09,800
Speaker 2: in bed and do pretty much nothing. And sometimes I

443
00:22:09,920 --> 00:22:12,159
Speaker 2: especially like if I've had a week of call and

444
00:22:12,200 --> 00:22:14,040
Speaker 2: then it's Tuesday, so that's like the first day I

445
00:22:14,080 --> 00:22:16,320
Speaker 2: don't have to go into the office and like see patients.

446
00:22:16,359 --> 00:22:18,200
Speaker 2: I'm like, what I really want to do is stay

447
00:22:18,240 --> 00:22:21,600
Speaker 2: in bed all day and watch stupid documentaries or something

448
00:22:21,640 --> 00:22:24,760
Speaker 2: like that. But I my schedule, I mean, for better

449
00:22:24,880 --> 00:22:27,000
Speaker 2: or for worse, And I recognize that I'm to some

450
00:22:27,080 --> 00:22:29,800
Speaker 2: degree in charge of all this, but it's just not

451
00:22:30,040 --> 00:22:32,600
Speaker 2: usually totally feasible with the.

452
00:22:32,600 --> 00:22:34,160
Speaker 1: Larger goals that I have of.

453
00:22:34,320 --> 00:22:37,280
Speaker 2: Keeping the podcast going, keeping the things I'm creating going,

454
00:22:37,280 --> 00:22:39,480
Speaker 2: et cetera. So I usually look at my planner on

455
00:22:39,480 --> 00:22:42,200
Speaker 2: Tuesday and it's not empty. It's actually usually quite full

456
00:22:42,240 --> 00:22:44,639
Speaker 2: after a busy season because I've had to push everything forward.

457
00:22:44,680 --> 00:22:45,640
Speaker 1: So I guess the.

458
00:22:45,560 --> 00:22:48,400
Speaker 2: Reality is that, like I don't usually plan out these

459
00:22:48,440 --> 00:22:51,680
Speaker 2: empty days, do I wish I could have them sometimes. Yes,

460
00:22:52,040 --> 00:22:56,480
Speaker 2: it's not necessarily something I do regularly. I do sometimes

461
00:22:56,480 --> 00:22:59,240
Speaker 2: get massages with a friend, and I do plan those

462
00:22:59,280 --> 00:23:00,920
Speaker 2: far out in advance. It's like, I know my next

463
00:23:00,920 --> 00:23:03,280
Speaker 2: one is like in December, because we just booked it,

464
00:23:03,520 --> 00:23:05,280
Speaker 2: and that to me is like, okay, I know I'm

465
00:23:05,320 --> 00:23:07,200
Speaker 2: going to spend at least half the day basically doing

466
00:23:07,240 --> 00:23:09,080
Speaker 2: nothing because the massage place is far away, and we

467
00:23:09,119 --> 00:23:11,280
Speaker 2: usually have lunch too, so it's kind of like it's

468
00:23:11,320 --> 00:23:11,640
Speaker 2: kind of.

469
00:23:11,600 --> 00:23:12,160
Speaker 1: Like a wash.

470
00:23:13,160 --> 00:23:16,840
Speaker 2: I also really enjoy with my husband sometimes when we

471
00:23:16,960 --> 00:23:19,760
Speaker 2: go away, like for our anniversary, we do so little.

472
00:23:20,080 --> 00:23:22,120
Speaker 1: We just like hang out and like watch TV.

473
00:23:22,280 --> 00:23:27,359
Speaker 2: So I guess I really do sometimes when it's feasible,

474
00:23:27,720 --> 00:23:30,080
Speaker 2: I do enjoy the do nothing days. And actually this

475
00:23:30,160 --> 00:23:33,040
Speaker 2: question kind of motivates me to try to maybe add

476
00:23:33,080 --> 00:23:36,800
Speaker 2: one or two more. I think they're best used fairly sparingly,

477
00:23:36,880 --> 00:23:39,040
Speaker 2: but they can be rejuvenating.

478
00:23:38,359 --> 00:23:40,639
Speaker 1: For me, yeah, I think. Yeah. My husband and I

479
00:23:40,720 --> 00:23:42,400
Speaker 1: don't do well with sitting still. He does even less

480
00:23:42,400 --> 00:23:44,720
Speaker 1: well than I do. I don't know, it's a I remember,

481
00:23:44,880 --> 00:23:46,879
Speaker 1: very very early in our relationship, we were out, like

482
00:23:46,960 --> 00:23:50,119
Speaker 1: on a beach somewhere like on these chairs, and he

483
00:23:50,200 --> 00:23:52,080
Speaker 1: kept like getting up and going like in the water

484
00:23:52,160 --> 00:23:54,720
Speaker 1: and then coming back out and like go a on, Okay,

485
00:23:55,560 --> 00:23:58,120
Speaker 1: guess we're not sitting still, you know, like I'm gonna

486
00:23:58,160 --> 00:24:00,200
Speaker 1: go see what the ref looks like over here. I'm

487
00:24:00,200 --> 00:24:05,400
Speaker 1: gonna go do this might go kayak anyway, Okay, Sarah,

488
00:24:05,440 --> 00:24:10,040
Speaker 1: what task are you most likely to procrastinate on? What

489
00:24:10,119 --> 00:24:12,720
Speaker 1: you would put yourself in bed all day to avoid doing?

490
00:24:14,040 --> 00:24:15,280
Speaker 1: I mean, I had trouble at first.

491
00:24:15,280 --> 00:24:19,080
Speaker 2: I was like, I don't think I procrastinate all that much.

492
00:24:19,280 --> 00:24:23,439
Speaker 2: Usually if I'm like delaying something, it's purposeful. Like sometimes

493
00:24:23,480 --> 00:24:25,720
Speaker 2: I don't put the dishes away because I'd rather do

494
00:24:25,760 --> 00:24:27,320
Speaker 2: them later when the kids are there. But that's not

495
00:24:27,320 --> 00:24:31,400
Speaker 2: about procrastinating. That's about like strategy. However, I will say

496
00:24:31,400 --> 00:24:35,040
Speaker 2: sometimes I procrastinate going to bed, and even though my

497
00:24:35,119 --> 00:24:37,480
Speaker 2: screen used is so much less, every once in a

498
00:24:37,480 --> 00:24:39,959
Speaker 2: while I just find myself like reading blogs or like

499
00:24:40,320 --> 00:24:42,840
Speaker 2: looking at Strava or something when I know I'm better

500
00:24:42,880 --> 00:24:45,399
Speaker 2: off just going to sleep. And then that also extends

501
00:24:45,440 --> 00:24:47,200
Speaker 2: to putting the kids to bed, especially if like I'm

502
00:24:47,200 --> 00:24:50,720
Speaker 2: the only parent home and everybody's like happily playing and

503
00:24:50,760 --> 00:24:53,080
Speaker 2: it's a weekend or something. It's just like, ugh, I

504
00:24:53,160 --> 00:24:55,520
Speaker 2: have to get up and end this nice, peaceful time.

505
00:24:55,600 --> 00:24:58,120
Speaker 1: Who wants to do that? So I would say that's

506
00:24:58,160 --> 00:25:00,840
Speaker 1: the task I'm most likely to procrastinate on. I mean,

507
00:25:00,880 --> 00:25:06,119
Speaker 1: for me, it's anything that is difficult, unpleasant, or nebulous

508
00:25:06,160 --> 00:25:08,719
Speaker 1: what the next step is. I mean, that's pretty textbook

509
00:25:08,760 --> 00:25:11,800
Speaker 1: what everyone procrastinates on. So you know, if you have

510
00:25:11,920 --> 00:25:14,840
Speaker 1: on your list, like do your taxes, it's like, oh, well,

511
00:25:14,880 --> 00:25:16,520
Speaker 1: I really don't feel like doing that, and if the

512
00:25:16,520 --> 00:25:19,359
Speaker 1: deadline isn't tomorrow, you know, put that forward. But I've

513
00:25:19,640 --> 00:25:21,560
Speaker 1: over the years, I've gotten better at figuring out, well,

514
00:25:21,680 --> 00:25:24,080
Speaker 1: let me break it down into steps. So knowing that

515
00:25:24,160 --> 00:25:28,040
Speaker 1: I need to get everything in soon for the October fifteenth,

516
00:25:28,480 --> 00:25:30,880
Speaker 1: you know there's a six month extension thing involved here,

517
00:25:30,920 --> 00:25:34,320
Speaker 1: But anyway, you I'm like, Okay, I'm going to just

518
00:25:34,520 --> 00:25:37,800
Speaker 1: pull together all the receipts for the credit card I

519
00:25:37,880 --> 00:25:40,679
Speaker 1: use for all business expenses. Okay, now I've got that,

520
00:25:41,240 --> 00:25:43,320
Speaker 1: so then I can another day I'll go through and

521
00:25:43,359 --> 00:25:45,400
Speaker 1: just like highlight the stuff I want to make sure

522
00:25:45,440 --> 00:25:48,359
Speaker 1: that I have deducted, and then another day I'll like

523
00:25:48,520 --> 00:25:51,080
Speaker 1: look to make sure that all the other expenses and

524
00:25:51,119 --> 00:25:53,320
Speaker 1: then top line revenue is all like in one place,

525
00:25:53,359 --> 00:25:54,879
Speaker 1: and then like the next day I'll be able to

526
00:25:54,920 --> 00:25:57,480
Speaker 1: like compile it all and you know, maybe the next

527
00:25:57,720 --> 00:26:00,520
Speaker 1: time send it into the accountant. But all of that

528
00:26:00,600 --> 00:26:04,040
Speaker 1: will be very few minutes on any given day, and

529
00:26:04,080 --> 00:26:06,320
Speaker 1: so it feels a little bit more doable than this

530
00:26:06,480 --> 00:26:09,800
Speaker 1: nebulous do taxes kind of thing. So I think if

531
00:26:09,800 --> 00:26:15,320
Speaker 1: you can break it down into doable and less unpleasant steps,

532
00:26:16,560 --> 00:26:18,919
Speaker 1: you might find yourself able to make a little bit

533
00:26:18,960 --> 00:26:19,560
Speaker 1: more progress.

534
00:26:19,760 --> 00:26:22,639
Speaker 2: Does it count as procrastination if you put something last

535
00:26:22,680 --> 00:26:24,800
Speaker 2: on your list, but then every time you get to it,

536
00:26:24,800 --> 00:26:26,159
Speaker 2: you're like, no, I'm too tired, I'm not doing it

537
00:26:26,200 --> 00:26:26,480
Speaker 2: at all.

538
00:26:27,000 --> 00:26:29,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, I do that with declo oh yeah, I mean, well,

539
00:26:29,520 --> 00:26:31,600
Speaker 1: I mean and sometimes it's not so issue if you're

540
00:26:31,600 --> 00:26:32,960
Speaker 1: pic you don't want to do it, Like if you

541
00:26:33,000 --> 00:26:35,840
Speaker 1: don't want to do it, then like sometimes we don't

542
00:26:35,840 --> 00:26:37,680
Speaker 1: want to acknowledge that. So you want to have it done.

543
00:26:37,720 --> 00:26:39,400
Speaker 1: You want to have it done. But there's a difference

544
00:26:39,440 --> 00:26:42,040
Speaker 1: between wanting to have something done and you know, wanting

545
00:26:42,080 --> 00:26:44,800
Speaker 1: to do it or actually moving into the process of

546
00:26:45,119 --> 00:26:46,960
Speaker 1: doing it. And so then if you truly want to

547
00:26:46,960 --> 00:26:49,520
Speaker 1: have it done. You can either suck it up and

548
00:26:49,560 --> 00:26:51,679
Speaker 1: do it anyway, or figure out another way to have

549
00:26:51,760 --> 00:26:57,520
Speaker 1: it be done. That's my relationship with clutter. All right. Next,

550
00:26:57,840 --> 00:27:00,880
Speaker 1: Oh those scroll up? Scroll up? Okay, we're we're still

551
00:27:00,880 --> 00:27:02,359
Speaker 1: working on it. How do we have a Google Docs

552
00:27:02,400 --> 00:27:04,720
Speaker 1: open while we're trying to record this in the same place?

553
00:27:05,800 --> 00:27:06,160
Speaker 1: All right?

554
00:27:07,240 --> 00:27:10,159
Speaker 2: How do you garner a new reserve of equanimity? I

555
00:27:10,200 --> 00:27:11,800
Speaker 2: love that equanimity?

556
00:27:11,920 --> 00:27:12,560
Speaker 1: Ecity.

557
00:27:12,760 --> 00:27:14,720
Speaker 2: It's a good word, though, for your children after a

558
00:27:14,840 --> 00:27:17,960
Speaker 2: very hectic and stressful work day, workday business and stress

559
00:27:18,000 --> 00:27:19,800
Speaker 2: is certainly not their fault. Yet I find it hard

560
00:27:19,800 --> 00:27:22,199
Speaker 2: to reset and keep it from impacting the patience and

561
00:27:22,320 --> 00:27:24,760
Speaker 2: understanding that I have for them.

562
00:27:25,400 --> 00:27:28,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, because I guess you're a human. I mean, I

563
00:27:28,240 --> 00:27:32,120
Speaker 1: don't know, I feel like you also. I mean, first,

564
00:27:32,160 --> 00:27:34,320
Speaker 1: there's a couple of things. I mean, for me, it

565
00:27:34,359 --> 00:27:38,280
Speaker 1: feels like such a different kind of stress unless your

566
00:27:38,680 --> 00:27:41,080
Speaker 1: job is like very closely related to what you're doing

567
00:27:41,119 --> 00:27:42,439
Speaker 1: with your kids. So I'm saying, like, maybe if you're

568
00:27:42,440 --> 00:27:44,720
Speaker 1: a kindergarten teacher or worked in a daycare or something like,

569
00:27:44,720 --> 00:27:46,480
Speaker 1: then it would be a very similar sort of stress.

570
00:27:46,520 --> 00:27:50,280
Speaker 1: And so I could see that it would be particularly challenging.

571
00:27:50,840 --> 00:27:53,960
Speaker 1: But if it's just like, Okay, well I'm dealing with

572
00:27:54,000 --> 00:27:56,680
Speaker 1: these unpleasant people at work or demanding things, and then

573
00:27:56,680 --> 00:27:58,960
Speaker 1: I come home and I have the kids, and you

574
00:27:59,000 --> 00:28:02,159
Speaker 1: know they're there, and you know, it just feels so

575
00:28:02,359 --> 00:28:04,760
Speaker 1: different what you're going to be doing with them versus

576
00:28:05,040 --> 00:28:10,200
Speaker 1: the spreadsheets at work, that I guess I would say

577
00:28:10,520 --> 00:28:13,760
Speaker 1: maybe you could even embrace the idea that it's stressful,

578
00:28:13,800 --> 00:28:15,800
Speaker 1: but it's different stress, and that alone can put you

579
00:28:15,800 --> 00:28:20,160
Speaker 1: in a different mindset you talked about.

580
00:28:20,560 --> 00:28:23,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think I experienced this sometimes just because like

581
00:28:23,640 --> 00:28:27,239
Speaker 2: sometimes my workplace can feel very like hectic or like

582
00:28:28,359 --> 00:28:31,600
Speaker 2: they like overly busy, like too much stimuli or something.

583
00:28:31,640 --> 00:28:33,520
Speaker 2: And then my kids are a lot of stimuli too.

584
00:28:33,560 --> 00:28:38,200
Speaker 2: I don't have like quiet, meek children, and so sometimes

585
00:28:38,400 --> 00:28:40,280
Speaker 2: if it's dire, or especially when I was having a

586
00:28:40,280 --> 00:28:43,000
Speaker 2: lot of migraines, I would ask our nanny to stay

587
00:28:43,080 --> 00:28:45,560
Speaker 2: later or be like Josh, I need a night where

588
00:28:45,800 --> 00:28:47,480
Speaker 2: like I can't, I'm not going to be patient with them.

589
00:28:47,520 --> 00:28:50,120
Speaker 2: I really really need your help tonight. Again, just like

590
00:28:50,200 --> 00:28:52,080
Speaker 2: the staying in bed all day, you can't use this

591
00:28:52,240 --> 00:28:54,400
Speaker 2: like every night. It's got to be when you really

592
00:28:54,440 --> 00:28:56,280
Speaker 2: really need it. But I have done that at times

593
00:28:56,320 --> 00:28:59,239
Speaker 2: and it's been helpful. And then I've also when there

594
00:28:59,320 --> 00:29:02,640
Speaker 2: is no help of bailable, told my children like, guys,

595
00:29:02,840 --> 00:29:05,560
Speaker 2: mommy's head hurts and I had the really horrible day

596
00:29:05,920 --> 00:29:07,800
Speaker 2: and I need you to be kind to me. I

597
00:29:07,840 --> 00:29:10,440
Speaker 2: need you to really help me out tonight. And what

598
00:29:10,480 --> 00:29:12,480
Speaker 2: that's going to look like is x y Z. And

599
00:29:12,520 --> 00:29:14,520
Speaker 2: I'm not going to say that they're then perfect angels

600
00:29:14,520 --> 00:29:16,280
Speaker 2: and they like put themselves to bed, but I feel

601
00:29:16,280 --> 00:29:18,400
Speaker 2: like they do as they've gotten older, they hear it

602
00:29:18,440 --> 00:29:20,560
Speaker 2: more and more and then maybe, like Annabelle will help

603
00:29:20,600 --> 00:29:23,960
Speaker 2: Genevieve a little bit more and it just won't be

604
00:29:23,960 --> 00:29:25,880
Speaker 2: as much of a struggle. So being honest, if you're

605
00:29:25,920 --> 00:29:28,360
Speaker 2: totally dreamed, maybe let them know.

606
00:29:28,920 --> 00:29:30,520
Speaker 1: There may be other things you can do to sort

607
00:29:30,520 --> 00:29:32,120
Speaker 1: of reset as well, like if you want to build

608
00:29:32,120 --> 00:29:33,400
Speaker 1: in a reset. I mean, one of the problems is

609
00:29:33,480 --> 00:29:35,200
Speaker 1: many people. Then you have a stressful day and then

610
00:29:35,240 --> 00:29:37,360
Speaker 1: you have like a stressful drive home in traffic, and

611
00:29:37,400 --> 00:29:40,880
Speaker 1: like that doesn't make you feel less stressed. But you know,

612
00:29:40,920 --> 00:29:42,920
Speaker 1: sometimes people who have the ability to say walk home

613
00:29:42,960 --> 00:29:46,000
Speaker 1: from work or bike home from work, that provides a reset.

614
00:29:46,760 --> 00:29:48,240
Speaker 1: But you know, even if you don't do that, if

615
00:29:48,240 --> 00:29:50,600
Speaker 1: you could come up with a way that you could

616
00:29:50,800 --> 00:29:55,800
Speaker 1: go for a fifteen minute walk before entering kid mood.

617
00:29:56,080 --> 00:29:58,320
Speaker 1: And again, it may not be that you can drive

618
00:29:58,360 --> 00:30:00,880
Speaker 1: home and do that because then they see you, but

619
00:30:01,760 --> 00:30:04,400
Speaker 1: it could part five minutes away and walk there and

620
00:30:04,440 --> 00:30:06,920
Speaker 1: then come home, or maybe walk around where your workplace

621
00:30:07,040 --> 00:30:09,280
Speaker 1: is and then come home. But something to do that

622
00:30:09,440 --> 00:30:12,040
Speaker 1: to reset in a way that would allow you to

623
00:30:12,480 --> 00:30:14,840
Speaker 1: be in a different headspace. But again, you don't have

624
00:30:14,880 --> 00:30:16,880
Speaker 1: to be too precious about this. I mean, we all

625
00:30:16,880 --> 00:30:18,480
Speaker 1: want to be good parents, but there is no parent

626
00:30:18,520 --> 00:30:21,920
Speaker 1: who is one hundred percent equananimous or however, we say

627
00:30:21,960 --> 00:30:25,240
Speaker 1: that word every single night. And so if you've had

628
00:30:25,240 --> 00:30:27,320
Speaker 1: a rough day and yet you still have these toddlers

629
00:30:27,360 --> 00:30:29,520
Speaker 1: that you got to deal with. You know, if you've

630
00:30:29,520 --> 00:30:31,600
Speaker 1: got like a playroom or something like, go shut the

631
00:30:31,600 --> 00:30:33,320
Speaker 1: door in the playroom, lie on the floor and let

632
00:30:33,320 --> 00:30:35,360
Speaker 1: them like throw balls around you and just kind of

633
00:30:35,400 --> 00:30:40,000
Speaker 1: sit there, and you know, it's it's not perfect, but

634
00:30:40,160 --> 00:30:41,880
Speaker 1: that's life. That is life.

635
00:30:41,960 --> 00:30:44,280
Speaker 2: I once saw some blog posts about like games you

636
00:30:44,280 --> 00:30:47,320
Speaker 2: can play with toddlers that involve you just lying there

637
00:30:47,520 --> 00:30:49,880
Speaker 2: like one of them's, Like, I don't know, they pretend

638
00:30:49,920 --> 00:30:55,440
Speaker 2: to be like as quiet as possible, you know. Yeah, yeah,

639
00:30:55,480 --> 00:30:59,600
Speaker 2: execute that strategy all right. Next question, this person writes,

640
00:30:59,600 --> 00:31:02,520
Speaker 2: I recently quick drinking alcohol after realizing how it impacted

641
00:31:02,520 --> 00:31:04,920
Speaker 2: my sleep and headaches. I know you've mentioned alcohol before

642
00:31:04,960 --> 00:31:06,479
Speaker 2: on your blog. Would love to hear both of your

643
00:31:06,520 --> 00:31:09,800
Speaker 2: thoughts on alcohol consumption. Seems like lots of non alcoholic

644
00:31:09,840 --> 00:31:12,800
Speaker 2: options are more and more popular these days.

645
00:31:13,320 --> 00:31:15,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I think in this case most of

646
00:31:15,320 --> 00:31:18,520
Speaker 1: both of us are sort of moderators on it. If

647
00:31:18,720 --> 00:31:23,520
Speaker 1: somebody is noticing that alcohol is affecting, you know, their sleep,

648
00:31:23,560 --> 00:31:26,600
Speaker 1: their health, their relationship with people, their mood, then probably

649
00:31:26,600 --> 00:31:29,120
Speaker 1: it's a good idea to cut back. And yeah, there

650
00:31:29,160 --> 00:31:32,840
Speaker 1: are more options now than ever before that are kind

651
00:31:32,880 --> 00:31:36,280
Speaker 1: of feel like grown up drinks as opposed to having

652
00:31:36,320 --> 00:31:40,320
Speaker 1: a soda or juice or something like that. It may

653
00:31:40,360 --> 00:31:44,120
Speaker 1: also be that certain kinds of alcohol affect you more

654
00:31:44,200 --> 00:31:47,920
Speaker 1: than others. I know I've personally found that I feel

655
00:31:48,040 --> 00:31:52,560
Speaker 1: quite bad after drinking red wine, whereas I can drink

656
00:31:52,640 --> 00:31:55,760
Speaker 1: white wine, not to access or anything, but like one

657
00:31:55,840 --> 00:31:58,440
Speaker 1: glass is less likely to make me have those same

658
00:31:59,640 --> 00:32:03,240
Speaker 1: symptom generally, though, I would drink beer instead of wine

659
00:32:03,280 --> 00:32:06,520
Speaker 1: to avoid the problem altogether. Right, So, you know, it's

660
00:32:06,800 --> 00:32:10,000
Speaker 1: you might find that certain things are more of a

661
00:32:10,080 --> 00:32:13,480
Speaker 1: problem than others. So while it's absolutely fine if you

662
00:32:14,400 --> 00:32:18,200
Speaker 1: wish to or need to quit drinking and we think

663
00:32:18,240 --> 00:32:21,520
Speaker 1: that's awesome, it may be that, you know, if we've

664
00:32:21,520 --> 00:32:25,400
Speaker 1: been on the wine train, maybe that is specifically a problem.

665
00:32:25,440 --> 00:32:28,720
Speaker 1: And if you decided to, you know, have a cocktail

666
00:32:28,880 --> 00:32:30,680
Speaker 1: once a week while you were out with your girlfriends,

667
00:32:30,680 --> 00:32:32,720
Speaker 1: that would not cause the same issues.

668
00:32:33,040 --> 00:32:35,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, So experimenting to figure out what works for me,

669
00:32:35,640 --> 00:32:38,880
Speaker 2: I prefer to do it kind of like context specific.

670
00:32:39,360 --> 00:32:42,680
Speaker 2: I'm also like really don't like to cut anything out entirely,

671
00:32:42,680 --> 00:32:44,680
Speaker 2: although you know, there are extremes to that. I'm not

672
00:32:44,680 --> 00:32:47,520
Speaker 2: going to be like occasionally doing hard drugs or something

673
00:32:47,600 --> 00:32:51,560
Speaker 2: like that. But I generally don't drink at home, and

674
00:32:51,680 --> 00:32:55,440
Speaker 2: so since I don't lead the world's most exciting life,

675
00:32:55,760 --> 00:32:57,800
Speaker 2: that's a very self limiting factor.

676
00:32:57,880 --> 00:32:59,640
Speaker 1: And then when I go out to dinner, I usually

677
00:32:59,680 --> 00:33:00,000
Speaker 1: have one.

678
00:33:00,160 --> 00:33:03,360
Speaker 2: Sometimes too, when I'm traveling, I try to like alternate

679
00:33:03,440 --> 00:33:04,959
Speaker 2: days where I have a drink and don't to kind

680
00:33:04,960 --> 00:33:06,800
Speaker 2: of catch up on sleep. So you just you gotta

681
00:33:06,840 --> 00:33:09,240
Speaker 2: like figure out your own personal policies. But I agree

682
00:33:09,280 --> 00:33:11,320
Speaker 2: that it's it is really nicer to see a lot

683
00:33:11,360 --> 00:33:15,520
Speaker 2: more fun like mocktails on menus or like canned options

684
00:33:15,560 --> 00:33:17,800
Speaker 2: or things like that, so you can feel like kind

685
00:33:17,800 --> 00:33:20,040
Speaker 2: of the same experience without the alcohol.

686
00:33:20,360 --> 00:33:24,600
Speaker 1: Absolutely, we both had a very nice what was a

687
00:33:24,640 --> 00:33:26,720
Speaker 1: spicy pineapple margarita last night?

688
00:33:26,840 --> 00:33:28,640
Speaker 2: That probably would have been fine About the alcohol, ye,

689
00:33:28,920 --> 00:33:33,960
Speaker 2: I've had a lot of I don't know, all right, Okay,

690
00:33:34,080 --> 00:33:35,400
Speaker 2: two more toomorrow.

691
00:33:35,400 --> 00:33:39,000
Speaker 1: Okay. Do you do you make how or how did

692
00:33:39,000 --> 00:33:41,960
Speaker 1: you make time for hobbies and sleep? With small kids? So,

693
00:33:42,080 --> 00:33:44,440
Speaker 1: this person has a one year old and a five

694
00:33:44,520 --> 00:33:47,560
Speaker 1: year old often finds herself trading off between time for

695
00:33:47,640 --> 00:33:51,280
Speaker 1: sleep and time for reading after completing the necessary tasks

696
00:33:51,320 --> 00:33:53,840
Speaker 1: for work at home. She says she does manage to

697
00:33:53,840 --> 00:33:56,280
Speaker 1: read upwards of forty books a year, but never feel

698
00:33:56,320 --> 00:33:58,480
Speaker 1: like she has read a lot in day because it

699
00:33:58,520 --> 00:34:00,640
Speaker 1: has to fit in ten minute chunks or she has

700
00:34:00,680 --> 00:34:04,520
Speaker 1: to stay up late reading, which, by the way, we

701
00:34:04,560 --> 00:34:07,600
Speaker 1: want to say, forty books a year is not a

702
00:34:07,680 --> 00:34:11,799
Speaker 1: small amount. And so that's one of the fun things

703
00:34:11,840 --> 00:34:16,280
Speaker 1: about having a podcast that's listened to by highly overachieving people.

704
00:34:16,320 --> 00:34:19,279
Speaker 1: They're like, well, I only trained for one marathon this year,

705
00:34:19,480 --> 00:34:22,080
Speaker 1: and I only read forty books, and so I'm wondering

706
00:34:22,080 --> 00:34:23,360
Speaker 1: if you could help me a little bit more with

707
00:34:23,440 --> 00:34:25,920
Speaker 1: my time management. It's so true.

708
00:34:26,080 --> 00:34:28,680
Speaker 2: Forty books is a lot of reading, whether it feels

709
00:34:28,680 --> 00:34:31,040
Speaker 2: like a lot or not. But I guess I will

710
00:34:31,160 --> 00:34:34,000
Speaker 2: say that when my children were younger, I did have

711
00:34:34,080 --> 00:34:37,080
Speaker 2: less time for hobbies, and part of that was my

712
00:34:37,239 --> 00:34:41,040
Speaker 2: unwillingness to sacrifice already interrupted sleep. Like so right now,

713
00:34:41,360 --> 00:34:44,319
Speaker 2: I generally don't get interrupted overnight, and so setting my

714
00:34:44,360 --> 00:34:46,520
Speaker 2: alarm for seven hours after I go to bed is

715
00:34:46,640 --> 00:34:50,480
Speaker 2: much more doable and kind to myself than it would

716
00:34:50,480 --> 00:34:52,480
Speaker 2: have been if I was like getting up to breastfeed

717
00:34:52,560 --> 00:34:54,839
Speaker 2: or like you know, sue a kid or something like that.

718
00:34:55,000 --> 00:34:58,879
Speaker 2: So I do feel like this is one of those

719
00:34:58,880 --> 00:35:01,319
Speaker 2: things where like to stomachs and it gets better. But

720
00:35:01,400 --> 00:35:04,400
Speaker 2: I also want to say and acknowledge, like something isn't nothing,

721
00:35:04,440 --> 00:35:06,399
Speaker 2: and if you are reading forty books, you already are

722
00:35:06,520 --> 00:35:10,279
Speaker 2: doing a lot, and maybe acknowledging that will kind of

723
00:35:10,320 --> 00:35:14,800
Speaker 2: help you recognize that you're not starting from zero here.

724
00:35:14,960 --> 00:35:17,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, and good for you for using those

725
00:35:17,520 --> 00:35:20,760
Speaker 1: ten minute chunks because most people use that for social

726
00:35:20,800 --> 00:35:23,560
Speaker 1: media or random headline scrolling or email checks, and then

727
00:35:23,600 --> 00:35:26,239
Speaker 1: they feel like they have zero time. So it may

728
00:35:26,280 --> 00:35:27,879
Speaker 1: feel to you like you have no time to read

729
00:35:27,920 --> 00:35:29,960
Speaker 1: because you are using those ten minute chunks. But as

730
00:35:30,000 --> 00:35:32,239
Speaker 1: you see, it's adding up to forty books a year.

731
00:35:32,280 --> 00:35:34,440
Speaker 1: I do agree it's fun to have the time before

732
00:35:34,480 --> 00:35:36,480
Speaker 1: bed to read. So maybe you could be like a

733
00:35:36,480 --> 00:35:42,160
Speaker 1: little bit more militant about like getting yourself ready for

734
00:35:42,200 --> 00:35:45,840
Speaker 1: bed and in bed with your book, like forty minutes

735
00:35:45,920 --> 00:35:50,080
Speaker 1: before bedtime, whatever that happens to be. And maybe that

736
00:35:50,200 --> 00:35:52,560
Speaker 1: happens by you said all the tasks you have to

737
00:35:52,560 --> 00:35:54,080
Speaker 1: do for work and home, I want you to be

738
00:35:54,080 --> 00:35:57,680
Speaker 1: a little bit more ruthless about ascertaining what is truly

739
00:35:57,760 --> 00:36:00,440
Speaker 1: necessary for both work and home. Like if you are

740
00:36:00,480 --> 00:36:02,600
Speaker 1: sitting there being like I have to lay everything out

741
00:36:02,640 --> 00:36:04,160
Speaker 1: for the morning and I have to have the house

742
00:36:04,200 --> 00:36:06,080
Speaker 1: completely clean before I go to bed, well yeah, then

743
00:36:06,080 --> 00:36:08,719
Speaker 1: you're gonna have less time to read. But if you're like, okay,

744
00:36:08,760 --> 00:36:10,160
Speaker 1: like I want to pick up at night, but I'm

745
00:36:10,160 --> 00:36:13,560
Speaker 1: gonna do it for ten minutes max, not just until

746
00:36:13,600 --> 00:36:16,759
Speaker 1: I think it's done, then maybe that opens up a

747
00:36:16,840 --> 00:36:19,759
Speaker 1: little bit more time for having a longer stretch of

748
00:36:19,880 --> 00:36:20,799
Speaker 1: reading time at night.

749
00:36:21,680 --> 00:36:25,759
Speaker 2: Awesome, Okay, do we have two more? Okay, something I've

750
00:36:25,760 --> 00:36:28,520
Speaker 2: been curious about. Do you and Laura make your bed

751
00:36:28,920 --> 00:36:29,560
Speaker 2: every day?

752
00:36:30,440 --> 00:36:32,080
Speaker 1: I will point out that we are sitting here in

753
00:36:32,120 --> 00:36:35,560
Speaker 1: Sarah's hotel room and she has made her bed like

754
00:36:36,200 --> 00:36:37,960
Speaker 1: sort of so well, I mean, what are you gonna do.

755
00:36:37,960 --> 00:36:40,000
Speaker 1: You're not gonna do like little bounce a quarter off

756
00:36:40,000 --> 00:36:42,799
Speaker 1: the sheets in your in your hotel room. But yeah,

757
00:36:42,840 --> 00:36:47,360
Speaker 1: But the thing is I often do which not because

758
00:36:47,400 --> 00:36:50,239
Speaker 1: I have some like compulsive need to do it or

759
00:36:50,280 --> 00:36:52,319
Speaker 1: I think it like nobody's gonna see the bed until

760
00:36:52,360 --> 00:36:55,680
Speaker 1: I'm back there at night in any case. But it's

761
00:36:55,719 --> 00:37:00,160
Speaker 1: so easy, Like I just have a sheet and a

762
00:37:00,239 --> 00:37:02,960
Speaker 1: duvet cover, and you know, I don't move the pillows

763
00:37:02,960 --> 00:37:05,080
Speaker 1: around or anything, so it's not like I'm putting a

764
00:37:05,120 --> 00:37:07,640
Speaker 1: giant arrangement of sixteen throw pillows. So I just like

765
00:37:08,600 --> 00:37:11,120
Speaker 1: move the pillow back a little bit, pull up the sheet,

766
00:37:11,160 --> 00:37:14,799
Speaker 1: and like, hey, it's done. So that literally it's like

767
00:37:14,840 --> 00:37:17,279
Speaker 1: three seconds as I'm getting out of bed, which I

768
00:37:17,280 --> 00:37:19,560
Speaker 1: don't even think about it. You know, I don't know

769
00:37:19,600 --> 00:37:22,200
Speaker 1: that that says anything about me, like in terms of

770
00:37:22,320 --> 00:37:24,160
Speaker 1: or even that I think making a bed is important.

771
00:37:24,200 --> 00:37:25,719
Speaker 1: It's just that I do that.

772
00:37:26,000 --> 00:37:28,440
Speaker 2: I'm quite inconsistent. I mean, I feel like sometimes I

773
00:37:28,440 --> 00:37:31,080
Speaker 2: didn't remember making it, so this wasn't honest. Maybe I

774
00:37:31,120 --> 00:37:32,720
Speaker 2: did it because you were coming in here to record.

775
00:37:32,760 --> 00:37:33,120
Speaker 1: I don't know.

776
00:37:33,280 --> 00:37:35,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, but I would say like sometimes I do, sometimes

777
00:37:36,000 --> 00:37:38,440
Speaker 2: I don't. Sometimes mid afternoon, if I'm working from home,

778
00:37:38,480 --> 00:37:39,759
Speaker 2: I'll be like, hi, I never made my bed and

779
00:37:39,800 --> 00:37:42,279
Speaker 2: I'll make it now. But same as Laura, Like, this

780
00:37:42,320 --> 00:37:46,160
Speaker 2: is not fancy bed making. This is like ten second,

781
00:37:46,239 --> 00:37:48,759
Speaker 2: ten seconds, ten second bed making. We're usually okay with

782
00:37:48,800 --> 00:37:52,880
Speaker 2: ten second bed making. All right, And finally, last question, Sarah.

783
00:37:53,120 --> 00:37:55,359
Speaker 2: This person said you guys should have said you and Laura,

784
00:37:55,400 --> 00:37:57,880
Speaker 2: I'm like reading my own name, which is okay. You

785
00:37:57,920 --> 00:38:02,520
Speaker 2: are both very positive about working and family conversation, dispelling

786
00:38:02,600 --> 00:38:04,560
Speaker 2: myths that is impossible to be your best self.

787
00:38:04,920 --> 00:38:07,239
Speaker 1: She says, I've greatly benefit from this. But she says,

788
00:38:07,280 --> 00:38:10,960
Speaker 1: I'm curious what specific narratives you might have had to dispel.

789
00:38:11,520 --> 00:38:15,160
Speaker 1: For example, in my world as an academic, people like

790
00:38:15,239 --> 00:38:18,760
Speaker 1: to say you write one less book for every kid

791
00:38:18,960 --> 00:38:23,759
Speaker 1: you have, So she's curious how we have reckoned with

792
00:38:23,880 --> 00:38:26,960
Speaker 1: any costs, or what we think about the parenting having

793
00:38:27,000 --> 00:38:29,600
Speaker 1: a parenting conversation at work, like letting people know about

794
00:38:29,600 --> 00:38:32,640
Speaker 1: your life outside of work. I'm going to throw in

795
00:38:32,719 --> 00:38:35,880
Speaker 1: right here that I really hate these like stupid rules

796
00:38:35,920 --> 00:38:39,000
Speaker 1: of thumb, like you write one less book for every

797
00:38:39,080 --> 00:38:42,400
Speaker 1: kid you have. You know, Okay, a lot of people

798
00:38:42,680 --> 00:38:44,600
Speaker 1: don't write that many books anyway, and a lot of

799
00:38:44,640 --> 00:38:47,239
Speaker 1: people write really crappy books. And you know, I'm not

800
00:38:47,280 --> 00:38:51,120
Speaker 1: sure that you know it's fun to blame your children

801
00:38:51,200 --> 00:38:53,479
Speaker 1: for like the fact that you haven't written that many

802
00:38:53,520 --> 00:38:55,600
Speaker 1: great books. But I'm not sure if that's the case.

803
00:38:56,320 --> 00:39:00,360
Speaker 1: So Sarah, how about you think this?

804
00:39:00,400 --> 00:39:02,280
Speaker 2: I mean, I don't know that there are like narratives

805
00:39:02,280 --> 00:39:04,920
Speaker 2: that are like spoken out loud, but certainly when I

806
00:39:04,960 --> 00:39:07,440
Speaker 2: had a role that had a more leadership component into it,

807
00:39:07,719 --> 00:39:10,279
Speaker 2: I felt like an outlier, like there weren't a lot

808
00:39:10,280 --> 00:39:13,000
Speaker 2: of women, and then the women were there actually didn't

809
00:39:13,000 --> 00:39:15,440
Speaker 2: Like at one point, I think of all the program directors,

810
00:39:15,440 --> 00:39:17,680
Speaker 2: like I was the only female with children, and that

811
00:39:17,760 --> 00:39:19,920
Speaker 2: was kind of interesting because there was a bunch of people.

812
00:39:20,239 --> 00:39:22,760
Speaker 2: I think that's changed a little bit now, which is awesome.

813
00:39:23,120 --> 00:39:24,799
Speaker 2: So I don't know about a narrative rather than just

814
00:39:24,800 --> 00:39:27,239
Speaker 2: feeling like, huh, do I belong here? And then I

815
00:39:27,280 --> 00:39:30,359
Speaker 2: felt like the answer was yes. And then this gets

816
00:39:30,360 --> 00:39:32,439
Speaker 2: a little complicated because then when I decided to move

817
00:39:32,440 --> 00:39:34,879
Speaker 2: on from that, I think a lot of people assumed

818
00:39:34,920 --> 00:39:37,640
Speaker 2: it was mostly to have more time for the kids,

819
00:39:37,680 --> 00:39:40,920
Speaker 2: and to some extent, there is some truth for that,

820
00:39:41,080 --> 00:39:43,600
Speaker 2: because it was a position that felt kind of like

821
00:39:43,640 --> 00:39:46,440
Speaker 2: you were never done and there was always something that

822
00:39:46,480 --> 00:39:48,160
Speaker 2: could come up, and I didn't want to be on

823
00:39:48,320 --> 00:39:52,000
Speaker 2: call twenty four to seven for that type of thing.

824
00:39:52,239 --> 00:39:55,399
Speaker 2: So but then I also have other things that I

825
00:39:55,440 --> 00:39:57,840
Speaker 2: wanted to do or other avenues I wanted to explore

826
00:39:57,840 --> 00:40:00,840
Speaker 2: in life, and it was easier to not emphasize those.

827
00:40:00,960 --> 00:40:04,640
Speaker 1: So yeah, well, I mean I just have the sort

828
00:40:04,680 --> 00:40:08,120
Speaker 1: of unique to me case that I'm trying to convince

829
00:40:08,200 --> 00:40:13,480
Speaker 1: people that I'm a time management expert. And while I

830
00:40:13,520 --> 00:40:17,319
Speaker 1: did not have five children as a personal branding exercise,

831
00:40:17,480 --> 00:40:20,080
Speaker 1: it does in fact help with that. Like people will

832
00:40:20,400 --> 00:40:22,279
Speaker 1: introduce me and then at some point people be like

833
00:40:22,400 --> 00:40:26,799
Speaker 1: and get this, she has five children, and people always like, ooh,

834
00:40:27,960 --> 00:40:32,520
Speaker 1: well that's weird, kind of awkward. So I mean, whatever,

835
00:40:32,640 --> 00:40:35,719
Speaker 1: it's it's fine. I mean, but it does like, you know,

836
00:40:35,719 --> 00:40:38,120
Speaker 1: people see it as like, oh, well, then yes, she

837
00:40:38,239 --> 00:40:41,160
Speaker 1: must be managing a lot of things in her time,

838
00:40:41,280 --> 00:40:45,680
Speaker 1: so maybe she knows something she can talk about. So

839
00:40:45,840 --> 00:40:48,879
Speaker 1: for me, I don't think it's quite the same that thing.

840
00:40:48,920 --> 00:40:55,480
Speaker 1: But I think kids can be a cost when people

841
00:40:55,680 --> 00:40:59,239
Speaker 1: let them be that like, when people are into that

842
00:40:59,320 --> 00:41:02,640
Speaker 1: narrative or let themselves, you know, decide that that's why

843
00:41:02,680 --> 00:41:06,160
Speaker 1: they're not doing X, Y and Z. But there's probably

844
00:41:06,200 --> 00:41:09,880
Speaker 1: ways to do X, Y and Z and have kids

845
00:41:09,960 --> 00:41:14,279
Speaker 1: and you know, be a very involved parent. Sometimes it

846
00:41:14,360 --> 00:41:17,359
Speaker 1: might look a little different from maybe whatever narrative you're

847
00:41:17,400 --> 00:41:21,680
Speaker 1: telling yourself being an involved parent looks like. But I'm

848
00:41:21,680 --> 00:41:28,960
Speaker 1: guessing it's mostly still possible. So you can simply decide

849
00:41:29,040 --> 00:41:31,480
Speaker 1: not to have that narrative. It'd be like I'm going

850
00:41:31,520 --> 00:41:34,200
Speaker 1: to write a lot of awesome books and I'm gonna

851
00:41:34,239 --> 00:41:37,200
Speaker 1: have a lot of awesome kids, and there is no

852
00:41:37,360 --> 00:41:40,000
Speaker 1: linear relationship between one and the other.

853
00:41:41,000 --> 00:41:43,399
Speaker 2: Love it all, right, Well, let's go to our love

854
00:41:43,520 --> 00:41:46,360
Speaker 2: of the week. We are going to both focus on

855
00:41:46,440 --> 00:41:51,040
Speaker 2: feet today and mine are the power Stride tab socks

856
00:41:51,040 --> 00:41:53,080
Speaker 2: from Lululemon. And I know there's a lot of like

857
00:41:53,160 --> 00:41:56,160
Speaker 2: fancy running focused brands out there, but I feel like

858
00:41:56,239 --> 00:41:58,120
Speaker 2: these are like the best socks and I don't just

859
00:41:58,160 --> 00:41:59,879
Speaker 2: wear them running. I wear them like with everything. They

860
00:41:59,920 --> 00:42:03,359
Speaker 2: just like what makes them awesome. They're like thin enough,

861
00:42:03,840 --> 00:42:05,680
Speaker 2: they like don't squish your feet, Like I never have

862
00:42:05,800 --> 00:42:08,879
Speaker 2: lines in my feet or my ankles after wearing them.

863
00:42:09,239 --> 00:42:11,000
Speaker 2: And they're like low enough so they could be no

864
00:42:11,120 --> 00:42:13,839
Speaker 2: show under certain So yeah, they're like I'm gonna buy

865
00:42:13,840 --> 00:42:15,520
Speaker 2: like a million more, Okay, my best songs.

866
00:42:15,400 --> 00:42:18,160
Speaker 1: And I should check those out. Well, I may convince

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00:42:18,200 --> 00:42:20,200
Speaker 1: Sarah to buy mine. My love of the week Athla

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00:42:20,280 --> 00:42:23,279
Speaker 1: Fit boots. So this is a t H L E

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00:42:23,400 --> 00:42:24,960
Speaker 1: F I T I kind of know how you say

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00:42:25,000 --> 00:42:28,279
Speaker 1: that Athla Fit whatever, But it's a brand that is

871
00:42:28,760 --> 00:42:32,400
Speaker 1: sold on Amazon. They have a lot of shoes that

872
00:42:32,560 --> 00:42:37,000
Speaker 1: are very reasonably priced and are quite comfortable. So I

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00:42:37,000 --> 00:42:41,160
Speaker 1: own a pair of wedge boots and wear them with

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00:42:41,200 --> 00:42:43,960
Speaker 1: my jeans, and I've been able to walk around a

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00:42:43,960 --> 00:42:48,399
Speaker 1: fair amount wearing them. And they have a tiny little

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00:42:48,440 --> 00:42:50,160
Speaker 1: bit of a wedge heel in them, so I'm a

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00:42:50,200 --> 00:42:53,560
Speaker 1: little bit taller while wearing them. But again, because they

878
00:42:53,560 --> 00:42:56,359
Speaker 1: are inexpensive, I don't feel so precious about them, like, Oh,

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00:42:56,440 --> 00:42:59,319
Speaker 1: I've got these, you know, nice sweded leather boots that

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00:42:59,360 --> 00:43:01,279
Speaker 1: if they get wet, so I'm going to be so

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00:43:01,560 --> 00:43:05,880
Speaker 1: upset about So there's something to be said for that

882
00:43:06,080 --> 00:43:07,640
Speaker 1: in terms of your everyday footwear.

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00:43:08,000 --> 00:43:10,040
Speaker 2: They look really comfortable and they're cute and I might

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00:43:10,080 --> 00:43:10,920
Speaker 2: have to order them, so.

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00:43:11,200 --> 00:43:14,200
Speaker 1: Exactly, exactly well, this has been best of both worlds.

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00:43:14,200 --> 00:43:17,120
Speaker 1: It's been an all mailbag episode coming at you with

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00:43:17,239 --> 00:43:21,040
Speaker 1: us in the same room here in a hotel in Boston.

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00:43:21,320 --> 00:43:23,200
Speaker 1: We will be back next week with more on making

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00:43:23,239 --> 00:43:24,400
Speaker 1: work and life fit together.

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00:43:26,480 --> 00:43:29,279
Speaker 2: Thanks for listening. You can find me Sarah at the

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00:43:29,280 --> 00:43:33,600
Speaker 2: shoebox dot com or at the Underscore Shoebox on Instagram,

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00:43:34,120 --> 00:43:34,720
Speaker 2: and you can.

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00:43:34,600 --> 00:43:38,839
Speaker 1: Find me Laura at Laura vandercam dot com. This has

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00:43:38,880 --> 00:43:42,200
Speaker 1: been the best of both worlds podcasts. Please join us

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00:43:42,200 --> 00:43:45,600
Speaker 1: next time for more on making work and life work together.