WEBVTT - The ETF Ticker Premium 0:00:00.360 --> 0:00:10.000 So here we go. Welcome to Trallians. I'm Joel Weber 0:00:10.200 --> 0:00:15.760 and I'm Eric bell Shones. Eric, one of my most 0:00:15.800 --> 0:00:19.000 favorite things about the e g F universe are tickers, 0:00:19.720 --> 0:00:22.000 and it's just like, it's so much fun. When you 0:00:22.040 --> 0:00:24.919 see somebody get a good ticker and I have a 0:00:24.920 --> 0:00:27.240 good E t F idea that goes with it, it 0:00:27.320 --> 0:00:30.000 just speaks to one of the reasons that this industry 0:00:30.000 --> 0:00:33.680 can be so much fun. Absolutely, I mean, everybody loves tickers. 0:00:33.720 --> 0:00:35.400 Remember when I first did E t F hits on 0:00:35.440 --> 0:00:39.160 Blueberg Television. The anchor at the time, Adam Johnson, UM, 0:00:39.200 --> 0:00:41.959 he loved the tickers. And even my mom can get 0:00:42.000 --> 0:00:45.680 into them. They're very accessible, they're fun, they can communicate 0:00:45.720 --> 0:00:48.120 a lot quickly, and and on our team we call 0:00:48.159 --> 0:00:50.520 it the ticker Premium. We believe that a good ticker 0:00:50.600 --> 0:00:53.280 can give you a little extra juice in the marketing 0:00:53.280 --> 0:00:56.160 efforts of an e t F and UM. I was 0:00:56.240 --> 0:00:59.279 down in Florida at the Money Show, my first physical conference, 0:00:59.320 --> 0:01:02.160 and ran into a UM a couple of E t 0:01:02.280 --> 0:01:05.240 F pros and had some drinks and some of the 0:01:05.240 --> 0:01:08.320 stuff they were telling me about their trials and tribulations 0:01:08.319 --> 0:01:10.680 of reserving tickers. I thought, this dish really is a 0:01:10.680 --> 0:01:14.640 perfect podcast. Plus sometimes I'm asked about ticker reservations and 0:01:14.720 --> 0:01:16.920 whether you can like sell a ticker, how long it lasts, 0:01:16.920 --> 0:01:20.319 and I can't quite technically answer all their questions. So 0:01:20.800 --> 0:01:24.440 I wanted to really nail this down finally how it works. 0:01:25.240 --> 0:01:28.480 So joining us Uh, a couple of your friends from Florida, 0:01:28.560 --> 0:01:31.679 and then we widened the circle, filled back with signal 0:01:31.720 --> 0:01:37.280 advisors Mike Venudo with Torosso, Laura Morrison with Cibo, and 0:01:37.280 --> 0:01:44.720 then joining us from Bloomberg News Claire Balentine, this time 0:01:44.720 --> 0:01:57.080 on Trillions Tickers. Phil, Mike, Laura, Claire. Welcome to Trillions. Thanks. Okay, 0:01:57.120 --> 0:02:00.559 so I'm really excited about this. Um, let's just start 0:02:00.560 --> 0:02:03.320 with some basics. What do I have to do to 0:02:03.480 --> 0:02:07.800 hold a ticker? So, in order for a client of 0:02:07.840 --> 0:02:10.640 an exchange to reserve a ticker, they simply need to 0:02:10.760 --> 0:02:14.000 reach out to the exchange and make the request. It's 0:02:14.040 --> 0:02:18.000 pretty simple and straightforward. If the ticker is available, we 0:02:18.080 --> 0:02:21.880 reserve it for them. If it's already reserved by another exchange, 0:02:22.000 --> 0:02:25.720 we can place ourselves on the wait list and anticipation 0:02:25.760 --> 0:02:28.760 of it potentially becoming available or we can reach out 0:02:28.800 --> 0:02:31.840 to the exchange that has it reserved and ask it, 0:02:32.040 --> 0:02:34.679 ask them if they'd be willing to release it. So 0:02:34.840 --> 0:02:37.799 is this like, go daddy, though, Do I like pay? 0:02:39.000 --> 0:02:41.799 Should I pay? Do I pay? And I just plunked 0:02:41.800 --> 0:02:43.560 down some like twenty bucks and I get to sit 0:02:43.600 --> 0:02:47.280 on the u R O. No. No, you actually don't 0:02:47.280 --> 0:02:50.400 need to pay anything in order to reserve tickers. The 0:02:50.440 --> 0:02:53.680 exchange doesn't look at that as a revenue line. Nobody 0:02:53.720 --> 0:02:56.119 really owns tickers, to be honest with you, I mean, 0:02:56.160 --> 0:03:00.000 just by way of background, and this is going way back. Um, 0:03:00.040 --> 0:03:01.600 when I started my career at the New York Stock 0:03:01.600 --> 0:03:04.480 Exchange in corporate listenings, there was literally one guy. He 0:03:04.560 --> 0:03:08.520 sat in a very small office with a huge ledger. 0:03:08.639 --> 0:03:12.120 I'm thinking it was maybe two ft by three feet 0:03:12.160 --> 0:03:15.640 in size. It was leather bound, and you'd walk in 0:03:15.680 --> 0:03:17.640 there and you'd have to bring a piece of paper 0:03:17.919 --> 0:03:23.560 actually in triplicate and asked to reserve the sticker. Um. 0:03:23.600 --> 0:03:27.480 It was very manual at the time. Exchange is eventually 0:03:27.840 --> 0:03:33.080 utilized other software technology, but it was all individual by exchanges. 0:03:33.480 --> 0:03:37.000 Fast forward to today, there's this concept of the intermarket 0:03:37.040 --> 0:03:41.120 symbol Reservation Authority Israel, and it is all under the 0:03:41.200 --> 0:03:46.440 regulation reagain a mess National Market System Plan and filed 0:03:46.440 --> 0:03:50.720 with the SEC. So it's much more um, much much 0:03:50.720 --> 0:03:53.760 more specific as it relates to the ability to be 0:03:53.840 --> 0:03:57.520 able to reserve tickers in for how long. So so 0:03:57.640 --> 0:04:02.960 essentially each exchange has the opportunity to reserve up to symbols, 0:04:03.000 --> 0:04:07.840 and the symbols reserved for twenty four months, and if 0:04:07.880 --> 0:04:11.880 that exchange hasn't used that and applied it to a listing, 0:04:12.520 --> 0:04:16.159 then they actually lose that reservation and it goes to 0:04:16.240 --> 0:04:19.039 the next person, the next exchange on the wait list. 0:04:20.360 --> 0:04:22.279 But like I said, it's not like Go Daddy, where 0:04:22.320 --> 0:04:25.599 exchanges can just sit on the symbols and reserve what 0:04:25.640 --> 0:04:28.120 they think will be the next hot symbol. They we 0:04:28.200 --> 0:04:31.520 really have to keep documentation to to prove that there's 0:04:31.760 --> 0:04:35.760 an intent by an issuer to use this symbol within 0:04:35.800 --> 0:04:40.080 the next twenty four months. So, Eric, I know you 0:04:40.080 --> 0:04:43.000 always like the analogies. It does sound a lot like 0:04:43.040 --> 0:04:46.200 the Bureaucrats and the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, right 0:04:46.279 --> 0:04:48.359 like it's it's weird, you walk in, you don't know 0:04:48.440 --> 0:04:50.719 what's going on. But I think one thing, Laura said 0:04:50.720 --> 0:04:53.240 at the end there that's really important is it's not 0:04:53.320 --> 0:04:55.680 like anybody off the street can just call up the 0:04:55.680 --> 0:04:58.600 exchange and reserve a ticker. There has to be evidence 0:04:58.640 --> 0:05:01.760 that you're actually have and intend to launch something with it. 0:05:01.760 --> 0:05:04.640 It's it does. It's not like a commodity that has 0:05:04.839 --> 0:05:08.240 value to somebody who's not going to launch that they 0:05:08.240 --> 0:05:11.760 can transfer our sell Well, and what's that evidence that 0:05:12.120 --> 0:05:17.679 you intend to launch something? What qualifies as evidence? I mean, Ali, 0:05:17.839 --> 0:05:21.880 Laura hit that one, because you know, usually if somebody 0:05:21.960 --> 0:05:24.480 cause I run a white labeled business, if somebody wants 0:05:24.480 --> 0:05:27.320 to launch an ETF, they're more likely to get it 0:05:27.360 --> 0:05:30.800 reserved the ticker by coming through me because it exchanges 0:05:30.920 --> 0:05:36.080 know that we have the ability to actually launch. But 0:05:36.279 --> 0:05:38.000 I just wrote down a great idea on a napkin. 0:05:38.560 --> 0:05:43.320 Does that count yep? Laura, you have the ability to launch. 0:05:46.000 --> 0:05:48.480 As we get to know our clients. It comes in 0:05:48.520 --> 0:05:53.080 through the process of listening, so as we um appreciate 0:05:53.279 --> 0:05:57.920 how sophisticated and knowledgeable they are about what their intentions 0:05:57.920 --> 0:06:00.440 are than you know, it gets to a certain point 0:06:00.440 --> 0:06:03.680 we're like, okay, well let's talk about symbols. So then 0:06:03.720 --> 0:06:06.200 it's brought up at the appropriate time. There are some 0:06:06.320 --> 0:06:09.920 instances where are we we get prospects because their first 0:06:10.000 --> 0:06:13.479 question is may I reserve this symbol? But then we 0:06:13.600 --> 0:06:16.400 go through further exploration to be sure that you know 0:06:16.920 --> 0:06:20.600 it truly is a um an opportunity for us to 0:06:21.000 --> 0:06:24.320 do business. UM let's talk about it from the issuer 0:06:24.360 --> 0:06:26.080 point of view. So this is I think what most 0:06:26.080 --> 0:06:29.520 people fantasize about. Okay, I've got this idea. I'm an 0:06:29.560 --> 0:06:32.840 independent issuer. A lot of times on Twitter, somebody will 0:06:32.839 --> 0:06:35.560 bring up something and people will start imagining what the 0:06:35.560 --> 0:06:40.320 ticker should be. So you, guys, Mike phill or our issuers, 0:06:40.920 --> 0:06:42.880 how many tickers do you reserve? How do you go 0:06:42.920 --> 0:06:46.159 about it? How important is it? Uh? Start with Phil? 0:06:46.720 --> 0:06:48.400 How much time do you spend thinking about it? I 0:06:48.440 --> 0:06:51.200 guess I have a lot of questions. It's really one 0:06:51.200 --> 0:06:53.000 of the first things you do. It's one of the 0:06:53.040 --> 0:06:54.400 first things you do as soon as you have the 0:06:54.400 --> 0:06:56.839 concept of the fund, before you've nailed down to details, 0:06:56.880 --> 0:06:59.719 before you've written the perspectives. You grab those good tickers 0:06:59.720 --> 0:07:01.440 because you know they're hot item and they're gonna go. 0:07:01.839 --> 0:07:05.359 The language of trading desks and asset allocators is the ticker, 0:07:05.440 --> 0:07:07.520 not the fun name. So some of the fun names 0:07:07.520 --> 0:07:10.920 sound like law firms, you've got you know, issuer, index, provider, 0:07:11.320 --> 0:07:14.240 asset class, blah blah blah, fund um. But the ticker 0:07:14.280 --> 0:07:16.280 is a great The tickers are more fun um. The 0:07:16.280 --> 0:07:18.480 ones that don't work as well are probably the acronyms, 0:07:18.480 --> 0:07:20.679 the ones that stand for a long in a series 0:07:20.760 --> 0:07:22.960 of of you know, parties that are involved in the fund. 0:07:23.160 --> 0:07:24.560 But the ones that really hit the nail on the 0:07:24.560 --> 0:07:27.280 head can really you know, be very sticky and memorable, 0:07:27.280 --> 0:07:30.520 and it's an incredible edge, is an incredible marketing tool. Yeah, 0:07:30.520 --> 0:07:34.360 premium is the right word here, because I was telling 0:07:34.400 --> 0:07:37.680 you back in Florida, feel that I got together to 0:07:37.800 --> 0:07:41.880 run a separate businesses together eventually culminating and me buying 0:07:41.920 --> 0:07:46.200 Phil's company, all because of the ticker bl okay. Right um. 0:07:46.240 --> 0:07:49.600 And one thing that you think about when you're reserving 0:07:49.640 --> 0:07:52.560 tickers is what are the competitors that are gonna come 0:07:52.600 --> 0:07:54.520 and what are they going to reserve? So I own 0:07:54.640 --> 0:07:58.360 some derivations of bl okay as well, right because like 0:07:58.480 --> 0:08:01.320 go daddy, I don't want somebody to have you know, 0:08:01.960 --> 0:08:05.560 roso dot net or Taroso dot or all those sorts 0:08:05.560 --> 0:08:08.560 of things, so that premium is very powerful. When we 0:08:08.600 --> 0:08:10.880 first came out with block we weren't allowed to use 0:08:11.360 --> 0:08:14.760 blockchain in the name, but the ticker was explicitly clear, 0:08:15.320 --> 0:08:17.520 and we launched the same day as another fund and 0:08:17.560 --> 0:08:21.160 literally doubled their assets. All in my opinion, in the 0:08:21.240 --> 0:08:24.160 early days were about ticker premium. This was like right 0:08:24.480 --> 0:08:26.640 at the peak time when everyone was saying blockchain not 0:08:26.760 --> 0:08:29.320 big cooin, right, and the blockchain was just getting super hot, 0:08:29.680 --> 0:08:32.280 and we were looking to launch a blockchain theme fund. 0:08:32.280 --> 0:08:35.080 There weren't that many public securities that were really pure 0:08:35.080 --> 0:08:36.880 plays in the space that were just coming up, and 0:08:36.880 --> 0:08:39.680 we're getting to that point, and there were two other companies, 0:08:39.679 --> 0:08:42.360 Mike's Company another company, that were also working on a 0:08:42.400 --> 0:08:44.600 blockchain fund, and I didn't know if we could beat 0:08:44.640 --> 0:08:46.760 them to market. We had other priorities we're working on 0:08:46.800 --> 0:08:49.600 the things. Really what we're focused on was automating our 0:08:49.640 --> 0:08:51.760 trading desk. So I said to Macan said, listen, I 0:08:51.800 --> 0:08:53.280 don't think I could beat you to market. Why don't 0:08:53.320 --> 0:08:55.120 you take the ticker, you launch it, but we'll do 0:08:55.160 --> 0:08:58.000 the trading and subadvisory work for you, because that's where 0:08:58.000 --> 0:09:00.880 we're focused and it turned into a wonderful partnership not 0:09:00.920 --> 0:09:03.920 only on a fund but for our businesses. One of 0:09:03.960 --> 0:09:06.000 the stories that we went over down there that I 0:09:06.000 --> 0:09:09.640 think really exemplifies how it works is Mike, your story 0:09:09.679 --> 0:09:13.319 with the ticker d O g E. So explain, you know, Okay, 0:09:13.520 --> 0:09:16.080 you thought of it, you registered it, and then and 0:09:16.080 --> 0:09:18.280 then what happened? Tell me that your history with this 0:09:18.320 --> 0:09:21.080 ticker and what's happening here. Yeah, so let's start with 0:09:21.120 --> 0:09:24.200 this is not an endorsement for dose coin, So so 0:09:24.240 --> 0:09:26.800 we're all protected. Um that said, I am a fan, 0:09:27.640 --> 0:09:31.960 but you know, three years ago we reserved that ticker 0:09:32.400 --> 0:09:34.760 um with the idea that maybe we would do like 0:09:34.760 --> 0:09:37.960 a gray scale thing around doze or something, since you know, 0:09:38.040 --> 0:09:41.640 and we were way early. Um, and by the time 0:09:42.280 --> 0:09:45.280 you know, that was something viable was maybe a month 0:09:45.400 --> 0:09:47.640 or two ago, and by then it was expiring. Now 0:09:48.160 --> 0:09:51.199 I knew that I wanted to reapply for it, right, 0:09:51.559 --> 0:09:54.160 but somebody else was already on the waiting list. I'm 0:09:54.160 --> 0:09:57.520 guessing Barry got it. Uh So, so yeah, you know, 0:09:57.559 --> 0:10:00.440 you could have something and be thinking about if for years, 0:10:00.440 --> 0:10:02.640 but if you don't use it, you lose it. Another 0:10:02.679 --> 0:10:05.480 example of that is I had Hell as a ticker 0:10:05.720 --> 0:10:07.959 H E A L. And we didn't have a great 0:10:07.960 --> 0:10:10.360 product for it yet, but we knew we would eventually, 0:10:10.920 --> 0:10:13.880 so we spent the legal money to file so that 0:10:13.880 --> 0:10:16.880 we'd get the extension um. Eventually, we still let it 0:10:16.920 --> 0:10:18.920 go because we never came to an idea that would 0:10:18.960 --> 0:10:21.680 fit it. But you will go out of your way 0:10:21.720 --> 0:10:24.480 to keep a good ticker if you can see the 0:10:24.559 --> 0:10:26.920 product that could fit with it at sometime. And one 0:10:27.000 --> 0:10:28.600 last thing I want to add to the going and 0:10:28.640 --> 0:10:32.560 getting tickers thing is a lot of us think about families, right, 0:10:32.640 --> 0:10:35.880 So I've done the risk on risk off row row, 0:10:36.080 --> 0:10:39.320 I've got Jojo coming, I've got other ones that are similar. 0:10:39.360 --> 0:10:43.199 So when you're thinking about a fund, you're usually thinking 0:10:43.200 --> 0:10:45.920 about a family of funds and what tickers can come 0:10:45.960 --> 0:10:49.640 together around that family of funds. So you'll see a 0:10:49.679 --> 0:10:51.560 lot of these new groups that come out with like 0:10:51.640 --> 0:10:54.320 options overlay, they'll put an A in front of everything 0:10:54.360 --> 0:10:57.520 like Asymmetric or things like that, or or got them 0:10:57.520 --> 0:11:00.880 with the g spy, So you'll you'll see people build 0:11:00.880 --> 0:11:03.839 as bet best as possible families. And the last thing 0:11:03.960 --> 0:11:05.920 is anything with E S G in it is gone 0:11:05.920 --> 0:11:07.960 and nobody can get it right. They all the E 0:11:08.080 --> 0:11:11.520 s G tickers are gone. So um, there you go. 0:11:11.880 --> 0:11:21.240 There's some inside baseball. How often would you say it 0:11:21.280 --> 0:11:24.439 happens that you think of the ticker and that are 0:11:24.520 --> 0:11:26.920 looking for a fun to fit with it versus the 0:11:26.960 --> 0:11:29.079 other way around, because I would think you have the 0:11:29.160 --> 0:11:32.280 fun first, and then you figure out a ticker oil 0:11:32.360 --> 0:11:33.880 you want to take that one. And there are very 0:11:33.920 --> 0:11:35.760 few tickers that are good enough that you would build 0:11:35.760 --> 0:11:37.720 a strategy around it. But there are some out there. 0:11:37.760 --> 0:11:40.480 I think we've seen some maybe in the cannabis space, 0:11:40.559 --> 0:11:42.960 you know, where there's some real you know, premode tickers 0:11:43.000 --> 0:11:45.960 and the space was just exploding. Um, there are some, 0:11:46.080 --> 0:11:48.440 but I think you know, there's two kinds of of 0:11:48.440 --> 0:11:52.120 of product, um, like target markets. Right, You've got your 0:11:52.440 --> 0:11:55.959 thoughtful uh let's say, quantitative strategy or active value you 0:11:56.000 --> 0:11:58.680 know value strategy, which is, you know, really it's gonna 0:11:58.679 --> 0:12:00.559 be ground up, it's gonna be an E Smith manager 0:12:00.600 --> 0:12:02.960 who was a philosophy that they've developed over years. And 0:12:02.960 --> 0:12:05.720 then you've got your fast money retail stuff right, which 0:12:05.760 --> 0:12:07.680 is like you know a weed fund or blockchain fund, 0:12:07.800 --> 0:12:09.240 and that stuff can come quick. And you've got to 0:12:09.280 --> 0:12:11.320 be fast, because the only way it works is really 0:12:11.320 --> 0:12:14.000 if your first maybe second to market. Um. And those 0:12:14.000 --> 0:12:16.319 are the ones where the ticker can in some cases 0:12:16.400 --> 0:12:18.520 drive the product development. I think that would be rare, 0:12:18.559 --> 0:12:20.560 but I could see a couple of tickers good enough 0:12:20.600 --> 0:12:24.880 where that could happen. Yeah. I think it goes back 0:12:24.920 --> 0:12:27.959 to the family concept, right, So this will be close 0:12:28.000 --> 0:12:31.320 to you, folks. UM. We had this idea a couple 0:12:31.360 --> 0:12:34.679 of years ago that all the major like family offices 0:12:34.720 --> 0:12:37.439 and big names out there will eventually have their own ETFs. 0:12:37.960 --> 0:12:41.480 So we reserved a bunch of names including I'm looking 0:12:41.520 --> 0:12:44.000 at it, b LMR, with the idea that Michael would 0:12:44.080 --> 0:12:47.560 someday launch his own ETF. Bloom was not available, so 0:12:48.760 --> 0:12:51.480 but we had Zuck and things like that. Um. Now 0:12:51.520 --> 0:12:54.360 it hasn't come through, But if you're thinking ahead of 0:12:54.400 --> 0:12:57.840 where the industry might be going, owning that ticker premium 0:12:57.840 --> 0:12:59.840 early could be very valuable. I think what you're saying 0:13:00.400 --> 0:13:04.000 that you you think of a billionaires, Yeah, because they 0:13:04.000 --> 0:13:06.920 would embrace the tax benefits at some point. But just 0:13:06.960 --> 0:13:10.000 to be clear, you can't sell that. I cannot. Only 0:13:10.120 --> 0:13:11.559 you can only build an e t F around it 0:13:11.600 --> 0:13:14.160 and hopefully they'll be involved, but you can't like sell 0:13:14.200 --> 0:13:16.640 that to them for a certain amount of money. No, 0:13:16.840 --> 0:13:19.320 But what more likely happens is what Phil said, Right, 0:13:19.520 --> 0:13:22.280 we figure out ways to work with each other and 0:13:22.360 --> 0:13:24.760 further the industry of Phil and I call it the 0:13:24.760 --> 0:13:28.520 rebel alliance, you know, like me, him, meb West, all 0:13:28.559 --> 0:13:34.520 the smaller guys and girls working together. Um, the indies, Yeah, 0:13:34.800 --> 0:13:36.960 the indies have the best tickers. I mean, there's definitely 0:13:37.040 --> 0:13:40.480 a correlation there, Meb. You said, uh Med has toke 0:13:40.600 --> 0:13:44.080 to me, that is Mount Rushmore. I like herbs. We 0:13:44.080 --> 0:13:47.160 don't know these names. Me Med favor is the CEO 0:13:47.240 --> 0:13:51.520 of Cambria UM and he has UM. He also has 0:13:52.040 --> 0:13:54.960 I heard he has h O d L, which to 0:13:55.040 --> 0:13:57.080 me is you could probably sell that for a million 0:13:57.120 --> 0:13:59.400 dollars to one of these bitcoinis. I know, but you 0:13:59.440 --> 0:14:04.800 probably could. Mike you you talked about um the premium 0:14:04.840 --> 0:14:07.959 and also this family idea. You know. Another trend that 0:14:08.120 --> 0:14:11.200 Eric and I have have notice and talked about before 0:14:11.200 --> 0:14:14.199 on the show is like when there are e t 0:14:14.360 --> 0:14:18.439 f uh tickers that are verbs that seems to be 0:14:18.520 --> 0:14:21.960 also really effective, like hack being a really famous one. 0:14:21.960 --> 0:14:24.400 You said, he'll I thought what that was that triggered 0:14:24.400 --> 0:14:26.480 that idea for me, Like, how much do you think 0:14:26.520 --> 0:14:29.920 a premium goes for for tickers that are can also 0:14:29.960 --> 0:14:33.080 be verbs? So I think the key is that the 0:14:33.240 --> 0:14:35.840 ticker tells the story. If you can find a ticker 0:14:35.880 --> 0:14:38.680 that tells the whole et f story and one word, 0:14:39.160 --> 0:14:43.320 it's amazingly half powerful, like hack block, you know what 0:14:43.400 --> 0:14:46.760 they are, and it's it's just done. Um. The other 0:14:46.800 --> 0:14:50.360 thing that's very powerful with a ticker is I know 0:14:50.480 --> 0:14:53.240 I've Joel, I've heard you on your podcast here talk 0:14:53.280 --> 0:14:55.600 about some of the stupid names we have to deal with. 0:14:56.480 --> 0:14:58.720 Believe it or not, Those stupid names come from our 0:14:58.720 --> 0:15:02.840 regulators trying to protect um. Right. So so if I 0:15:02.920 --> 0:15:04.880 say I want to do something, they say will prove 0:15:04.920 --> 0:15:07.080 to me that of the revenue is coming from there, 0:15:07.120 --> 0:15:10.720 And I say, yeah, right fine, Like, and it's really 0:15:10.760 --> 0:15:14.480 about pigeon holing in with the naming convention rules. If 0:15:14.520 --> 0:15:17.840 a ticker can get across what we're doing better than 0:15:17.880 --> 0:15:21.600 the name, it's super super powerful. Just to be clear, 0:15:21.680 --> 0:15:24.600 you're talking about like your block, which we've been mentioning 0:15:24.760 --> 0:15:29.640 over and over. Sorry, official name not here to pitch. Yeah, no, Um, 0:15:29.680 --> 0:15:35.240 the official name is Amplified Transformational Data Sharing e t F. Correct. Yeah, 0:15:35.360 --> 0:15:37.920 so thank god for block. Yes, if that was a 0:15:38.040 --> 0:15:43.440 t d S, good luck, But it happens with a 0:15:43.440 --> 0:15:46.520 lot of them, like these hydrogen economies. And remember when 0:15:46.520 --> 0:15:48.760 there was the Whear e t F. The name of 0:15:48.760 --> 0:15:50.240 the E t F was the same as the symbol, 0:15:50.240 --> 0:15:52.760 and it was supposed to be about wearables and then 0:15:52.840 --> 0:15:56.000 the SEC said no more of that. So the person 0:15:56.080 --> 0:15:59.200 who who governs how we use a ticker is Laura 0:15:59.560 --> 0:16:02.840 or UG or one of the exchanges and their self 0:16:02.880 --> 0:16:07.160 regulatory organizations. The person's the entity that regulates what the 0:16:07.240 --> 0:16:11.800 name is is the SEC inus. So so there's a 0:16:11.800 --> 0:16:15.120 lot more leeway with the ticker because you're not getting 0:16:15.120 --> 0:16:18.680 a regulator saying no unless it's a cash management product 0:16:19.000 --> 0:16:22.000 UM low duration stuff. So I had mentioned to you 0:16:22.080 --> 0:16:24.160 I have a t M. I was told I couldn't 0:16:24.240 --> 0:16:27.600 use it for short duration fixed income fund because it 0:16:27.600 --> 0:16:30.720 would imply its cash I think another thing is, you know, 0:16:30.760 --> 0:16:32.760 we tend to take ourselves real seriously in the sm 0:16:32.800 --> 0:16:36.280 management industry, and the tickers that don't take themselves too seriously, 0:16:36.320 --> 0:16:38.760 the tickers that are more fun seem to do really well, 0:16:39.320 --> 0:16:42.120 like I had a fun called the Reverse cap waited 0:16:42.200 --> 0:16:44.000 US Large Cap et F and for the ticker, I 0:16:44.040 --> 0:16:47.240 shows reverse r vrs to spell out reverse and it 0:16:47.480 --> 0:16:50.080 kind of fell flat for the most part. When we 0:16:50.160 --> 0:16:53.080 launched a fund, Ben Johnson and Morning Star putt saying, oh, 0:16:53.080 --> 0:16:57.760 this should be YPS for spy spy backwards YPS, and 0:16:57.800 --> 0:16:59.680 it got a great reaction on Twitter. I'm like, I 0:16:59.760 --> 0:17:01.800 miss did well. We ended up a couple of years 0:17:01.880 --> 0:17:04.959 later selling the fund to Arrow Funds and Joe Barrado 0:17:05.000 --> 0:17:06.640 at Arrow Funds is like, hey, let's use now we're 0:17:06.640 --> 0:17:09.159 moving it over, let's use YPS. It's much you know, 0:17:09.240 --> 0:17:11.359 it's much lighter, it's much more fun, and it doesn't 0:17:11.440 --> 0:17:14.000 tell the whole story right there. Um, And he didn't. 0:17:14.000 --> 0:17:16.400 Immediately we got another like eight or nine million into 0:17:16.440 --> 0:17:18.879 the funds. So you know, it was that that it 0:17:19.000 --> 0:17:22.000 can't have an effect. Yeah, you could have the opposite 0:17:22.040 --> 0:17:24.320 effect with a bad ticker, which you've teased me about 0:17:24.520 --> 0:17:27.240 on bolth Twitter and on various shows. Yeah, wait, E 0:17:27.359 --> 0:17:29.840 t F Industry E t F. It should have been meta, 0:17:29.960 --> 0:17:32.879 should have been meta, or there was other ideas, but 0:17:33.280 --> 0:17:35.720 T E t F just well, So what we learned 0:17:35.880 --> 0:17:38.720 was t E t F everybody I thought that that 0:17:38.840 --> 0:17:41.479 meant it owns all the E t F s, right, 0:17:41.560 --> 0:17:43.440 so like total E t F s or something like that. 0:17:43.560 --> 0:17:46.040 So we figured out way too late in the game 0:17:46.520 --> 0:17:49.240 that our ticker gave the wrong message. And that's even 0:17:49.480 --> 0:17:52.879 that's instead of ticker premium, what is that ticker deficiency 0:17:54.359 --> 0:17:57.960 ticker dysfunction? Okay, well, wait, I gotta go. I got 0:17:58.080 --> 0:18:00.040 a good follow of that. Like, okay, So one of 0:18:00.080 --> 0:18:01.680 the things that we've talked about before is like the 0:18:01.760 --> 0:18:04.760 E t F graveyard where we we see a fund 0:18:05.000 --> 0:18:07.720 that you know is no longer viable and get sunseted. 0:18:08.280 --> 0:18:10.920 And how often are you keeping an eye in the 0:18:11.000 --> 0:18:13.720 graveyard to see if you can, you know, steal something 0:18:14.320 --> 0:18:16.080 from beyond the grave and bring it bring it back 0:18:16.119 --> 0:18:18.320 to something else. So I have a list here of 0:18:18.400 --> 0:18:20.120 a couple of these because I was talking with Phil 0:18:20.119 --> 0:18:24.000 about the last night. So, uh, the only ticker that's 0:18:24.000 --> 0:18:26.720 been used for the same et F twice is s 0:18:26.760 --> 0:18:32.480 E A, which was used for the shipping so it closed, reopen, 0:18:32.600 --> 0:18:36.119 closed again. And now, um, I mean the filings out there, 0:18:36.160 --> 0:18:38.720 but I'm bringing something similar back as boat b A 0:18:39.080 --> 0:18:42.879 B O A T Why y Y closed as a 0:18:43.000 --> 0:18:45.280 weird fund. It was one of the first ever active funds, 0:18:45.680 --> 0:18:48.679 and then it was reopened as a passive fund at etc. 0:18:48.880 --> 0:18:51.880 And then Amplify and then um I mentioned the risk 0:18:51.960 --> 0:18:55.960 on risk off right, So State Street had that. Ironically 0:18:56.000 --> 0:18:59.760 when we launched it UM in our trust separately after 0:18:59.840 --> 0:19:03.840 they died, there immediately was approved at all the wirehouses 0:19:04.119 --> 0:19:06.160 because they thought it was still the State Street fund. 0:19:06.400 --> 0:19:08.320 So we're getting orders in and then like three days 0:19:08.440 --> 0:19:12.280 later they're getting rescented because the order books that the 0:19:12.400 --> 0:19:14.760 wires still were connected to the old fund and the 0:19:14.840 --> 0:19:18.359 old ticker. So all kinds of weird things happen from 0:19:18.400 --> 0:19:21.760 tickers and the graveyard. Can I jump in here with 0:19:21.840 --> 0:19:27.280 the story. And we saw recently where uh BTC, which 0:19:27.359 --> 0:19:29.600 clearly is going to be a coveted ticker for a 0:19:29.680 --> 0:19:33.399 bitcoin ETF. I mean that's like gold um gray Scale 0:19:33.440 --> 0:19:36.000 took a position in this smaller issuer who had a 0:19:36.080 --> 0:19:38.760 fixed income fund. They changed their ticker but not the 0:19:38.800 --> 0:19:44.359 strategy from like something appropriate to BTC, and then they 0:19:44.440 --> 0:19:47.679 undid it. So I'm guessing the SEC sort of sent 0:19:47.760 --> 0:19:50.320 them an email. Is that is that fair? But that's 0:19:50.359 --> 0:19:53.480 also how valuable the ticker is that gray Scale was 0:19:53.520 --> 0:19:56.120 willing to like do this whole maneuver just to hold 0:19:56.200 --> 0:19:59.440 onto BTC in the hopes they can convert GBTC to 0:19:59.520 --> 0:20:01.960 an e t F. Do I have that right? I 0:20:02.000 --> 0:20:03.639 don't know if any of us have the specifics of 0:20:03.680 --> 0:20:05.520 that case or would know you know, what the SEC 0:20:05.640 --> 0:20:07.040 and may or may not have said. But I have 0:20:07.160 --> 0:20:09.840 to say that the idea of buying a separate fund 0:20:09.920 --> 0:20:11.280 just to stick it with the ticker, to take the 0:20:11.359 --> 0:20:13.960 ticker off the table because they already have GBTC, so 0:20:14.040 --> 0:20:16.320 they don't need more ticker recognition. They just need to 0:20:16.400 --> 0:20:19.320 prevent somebody else. I think it's an incredibly I mean, 0:20:19.359 --> 0:20:22.480 that's just a brilliant defensive move. It's brilliant. But it 0:20:22.640 --> 0:20:24.800 was kind of interesting. I was watching that from AFAR 0:20:24.880 --> 0:20:27.560 as well. There are other things that exchanges do is 0:20:27.640 --> 0:20:33.760 just try to eliminate confusion, so reducing confusion the like 0:20:33.880 --> 0:20:36.960 for example, Mike, like what you said, if a fund closes, 0:20:37.440 --> 0:20:41.000 we typically put that ticker on the shelf for seventy 0:20:41.080 --> 0:20:44.760 five days or so, just so that there's not an 0:20:44.800 --> 0:20:48.200 immediate confusion and misunderstanding for actually what you're investing in. 0:20:48.320 --> 0:20:51.840 If if you're just focused on tickers. M One thing 0:20:51.880 --> 0:20:54.960 that we did, like when v XX relaunched as the 0:20:55.119 --> 0:20:58.280 new v x X, we actually didn't give it the 0:20:58.359 --> 0:21:01.440 v XX ticker immediately. Um, we would have liked to 0:21:01.520 --> 0:21:04.440 put the VXX ticker on it sooner, but we just said, okay, 0:21:04.640 --> 0:21:08.359 let's just make sure that there's there's time in between that. 0:21:08.680 --> 0:21:12.000 But then there's also the standpoint of, you know, BTC 0:21:12.240 --> 0:21:15.720 ticker means something, and it put a BTC ticker on 0:21:16.400 --> 0:21:20.119