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Speaker 1: Welcome to Unaddictioned the Podcast. My name is doctor Zinga Harrison.

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Speaker 1: I'm a Board certified psychiatrist with a specialty in addiction

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Speaker 1: medicine and co founder and chief medical officer of Eleanor Health.

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Speaker 1: On this podcast, we explore the paths that can lead

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Speaker 1: to addiction and the infinite paths that can lead to recovery.

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Speaker 1: Our guests are sharing their own experiences, the tools that

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Speaker 1: have helped them along the way, and the formulas that

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Speaker 1: allow them to thrive in recovery one day at a time.

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Speaker 1: I am so excited to tell you about my book, Unaddictioned,

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Speaker 1: six mind Changing Conversations that Could Save a Life, is

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Speaker 1: now available from Union Square and Company or wherever books

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Speaker 1: are sold.

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Speaker 2: Hey, this is Jada. I am the producer of on

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Speaker 2: Addiction Pod, and today we have Dave Mannheim of the

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Speaker 2: Dope Podcast. Shout outs to Dope Nation. He is a

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Speaker 2: good friend of the pod. He and and Zinga go

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Speaker 2: way way back, and I love this conversation so much

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Speaker 2: because you can totally feel the love and as Dave

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Speaker 2: will let you know in just a few minutes, he

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Speaker 2: is just a big old softy, So I really hope

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Speaker 2: you enjoyed the conversation as much as I did. That

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Speaker 2: being said, just giving you a little bit of a

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Speaker 2: warning that there's some F bombs and S bombs being

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Speaker 2: dropped in today's episode, So continue with care.

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Speaker 3: Oh wait, I have to go get my dopey hot

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Speaker 3: hat for the clips. Hold on, hold on, nice, Yes,

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Speaker 3: I have to rep.

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Speaker 1: Yes, well, it is like impossible to keep my kids

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Speaker 1: from stealing.

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Speaker 4: Nice dope hat. How are you?

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Speaker 3: I'm good. I can't complain.

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Speaker 4: I'm sure you could.

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Speaker 3: I could, but you know.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, all right, So first of all, I'm gonna complain

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Speaker 1: about myself because why was Dave Man. I'm not the

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Speaker 1: first person I thought about to come on the show

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Speaker 1: when I was like, I'm gonna do a podcast, I

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Speaker 1: don't know.

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Speaker 4: That's a deep that's a deep question. I didn't. I

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Speaker 4: didn't want. I didn't. I didn't want to ask you that.

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Speaker 4: I was thinking, should I should I start with that?

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Speaker 3: Just start with that. What's the empathic confrontation?

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Speaker 4: Well, it was more like, so, doctor Harrison, what was

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Speaker 4: it about me that made me not seem Is that not?

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Speaker 4: That's too confrontational.

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Speaker 3: You can ask that question.

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Speaker 1: I'm just saying it was not anything about you.

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Speaker 4: No, I listen. I see the Unaddiction podcast popping up

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Speaker 4: all over the place. I see a bunch of people

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Speaker 4: on it. And then when I saw Aaron Carr before me,

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Speaker 4: I was like wait. I was like, wait a second,

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Speaker 4: this is I mean, I can accept the other people,

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Speaker 4: but well, it's nothing against Aaron. Aaron and I are

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Speaker 4: very close. But then but then I was like, I

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Speaker 4: don't know, I felt a kind of way that you

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Speaker 4: went Aaron for me. I know I'm a very petty person.

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Speaker 4: I can accept that, but.

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Speaker 1: It was that when you texted me when you heard

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Speaker 1: Aaron's So first of all, let me turn this back

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Speaker 1: around on you. Before you heard Aaron Carr on the

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Speaker 1: pat on the pod, you had no desire to come on.

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Speaker 1: But then you heard Aaron and you were like, oh,

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Speaker 1: let me text in Zinga immediately.

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Speaker 4: No, no, no. I was respectfully distant until I saw Aaron.

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Speaker 4: And then I was like, I was like, what can

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Speaker 4: I curse on this show?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, you can curse data, Jada will make me give

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Speaker 3: a language.

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Speaker 4: I'm not going to curse. What what the f? How

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Speaker 4: could how could it? How could it possibly? I just

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Speaker 4: I was just like, as they say, hell no, you

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Speaker 4: know what I'm saying. I was like no. I was

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Speaker 4: like I can accept this, this, this and this, and

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Speaker 4: then it was this and I was like no.

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Speaker 1: But so for me, once you text me, it was

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Speaker 1: purely how was Dave not the first or one of

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Speaker 1: the first people that I called?

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Speaker 4: And what did you come up with?

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Speaker 3: I didn't come up with anything, honestly.

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Speaker 4: Can I give you? Can I hit you with the

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Speaker 4: Jewish Guild?

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Speaker 3: Yeah? Hit me even though.

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Speaker 4: After all these years, after all the shows, the hats, the.

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Speaker 3: Socks, Oh, the hats and the socks.

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Speaker 4: I know, I know.

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Speaker 3: So Okay, here we are.

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Speaker 4: I'm so happy to be here.

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Speaker 3: I'm so happy to have you. So we go way back.

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Speaker 1: You can tell by this this do you call it?

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Speaker 3: Yeah?

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Speaker 1: Deep love, playful banner, all of those sort of things.

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Speaker 1: We go way back, all the way to end recovery

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Speaker 1: with doctor Harrison. You helped me cut my teeth on podcasting.

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Speaker 1: So I'm super excited to have you here. Okay, the

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Speaker 1: Unaddiction podcast. We started it to bring awareness to the book.

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Speaker 1: Did you get your book?

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Speaker 4: I got the book?

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Speaker 3: Know not. Did you buy a book? Did you get

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Speaker 3: the book that I sent you?

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Speaker 4: I got the book. I have it. I got it,

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Speaker 4: it arrived, it's downstairs.

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Speaker 3: Okay, great. Did you see my message to you on that.

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Speaker 4: I didn't see it. No, I didn't see it.

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Speaker 1: But I'm meant to put a sticky note so that

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Speaker 1: you would know that I actually signed your book and

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Speaker 1: wrote a thoughtful personal message.

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Speaker 4: Should I run and get it and read it? Yeah,

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Speaker 4: hold on, give me one second.

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Speaker 3: Okay.

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Speaker 1: Oh, Jada said, Dave, you absolutely can curse. She said,

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Speaker 1: do not send to you.

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Speaker 4: Okay. The best shows that the producer is a character,

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Speaker 4: a minor character.

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Speaker 3: He's holding the book, he's showing it to me.

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Speaker 4: First of all, it smells delicious. It smells like that

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Speaker 4: new book smell amazing.

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Speaker 1: And I'm also taking note that, in fact, there is

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Speaker 1: a sticky note.

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Speaker 4: There is, But I'll tell you it's like I got

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Speaker 4: the book.

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Speaker 3: Because you have not actually opened the book at all.

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Speaker 4: I cannot tell a lie. I put it. I put

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Speaker 4: it on the table, and my lovely wife like, I

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Speaker 4: have lots of weird addiction books obviously all over the place,

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Speaker 4: Like I have some book like called dry Humping about

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Speaker 4: like sex, like sober sex. I have like weird addiction

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Speaker 4: books lying around, and my wife gets nervous that our

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Speaker 4: kids are gonna look at the addiction books. I didn't

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Speaker 4: think an addiction, this beautiful book would be bad for

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Speaker 4: the six mind changing conversations that could change, yeah, said,

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Speaker 4: she said, don't you think it's inappropriate? I said, no,

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Speaker 4: it's doctor that's in the single book. But she She's

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Speaker 4: stuck it under the table, so I never got to

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Speaker 4: see it. And I'm going to read this deep note.

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Speaker 4: I was expecting some treaty deep it's Dave. You know

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Speaker 4: the love runs so deep? Toodles and zan, I love it,

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Speaker 4: thank you, I love it.

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Speaker 1: The love runs deep, and so tootles was obviously for Chris.

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Speaker 3: So why don't we jump in?

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Speaker 1: Dave?

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Speaker 3: Will you?

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Speaker 1: Although I feel like you have such a big voice

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Speaker 1: in the recovery community, a lot of people have probably

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Speaker 1: heard your voice and know who you are. But the

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Speaker 1: purpose of this podcast is that we know they're an

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Speaker 1: infinite number of paths to addiction.

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Speaker 3: We know they're an infinite number of paths to recovery.

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Speaker 1: Everybody's path is different, and so I'm just like talking

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Speaker 1: to people who have had their journey, so you can

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Speaker 1: share what your formula is today, what it has been,

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Speaker 1: what it was when you got started. In case somebody

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Speaker 1: thinks I might try a piece of that formula, So

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Speaker 1: will you just tell us who you are and whatever

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Speaker 1: you want us to know, and then start talking to

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Speaker 1: us about your journey.

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Speaker 4: Sure. My name is David, and I am a drug addict,

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Speaker 4: and I am a podcaster, and I work in a restaurant.

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Speaker 4: And I was you know, I was on heroin and

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Speaker 4: methadone and xanax, and I was on weed from probably

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Speaker 4: ninety three to twenty and fifteen straight.

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Speaker 3: Which you know, and how old in ninety three? How young?

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Speaker 4: I was nineteen? So I smoked pot every day from

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Speaker 4: nineteen to forty one, unless I was in jail or

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Speaker 4: detox or Yeah. I got into kind of rock and

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Speaker 4: roll culture around the same time. I was a musician

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Speaker 4: and I wanted to be like my heroes, and I

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Speaker 4: also really liked the mix of drugs and music and

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Speaker 4: that culture. I enjoyed it, and I got into psychedelics,

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Speaker 4: but it was also scary, So I didn't get crazy

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Speaker 4: into psychedelics. I just I took them enough. I mean,

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Speaker 4: I had a few trips that weren't fantastic, but I

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Speaker 4: never swore it off. And I just I kind of

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Speaker 4: tripped and smoked weed until I don't know, Like, I

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Speaker 4: had a girlfriend who wanted to do coke and we

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Speaker 4: wound up doing some coke, and coke never mixed with

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Speaker 4: my with my brain chemistry properly at all, And I

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Speaker 4: did do it, but it didn't make me feel good.

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Speaker 4: It would make me uncomfortable. But what I noticed was

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Speaker 4: that they would often take benzos to come off of

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Speaker 4: the coke, and the benzos really mixed good with my

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Speaker 4: brain chemistry, and the weed, like, the weed was ideal

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Speaker 4: for my brain chemistry. I was like the kind of

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Speaker 4: like I was born to be a stoner. I was

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Speaker 4: born to It relaxed me. It didn't make me feel paranoid.

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Speaker 4: It softened everything, It made things taste good. It made

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Speaker 4: things easy for me because I was such a neurotic Jew,

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Speaker 4: you know what I mean. I just grew up this ridiculous,

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Speaker 4: neurotic New York City Jew and so afraid of what

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Speaker 4: people thought of me, so afraid of like how did

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Speaker 4: I look in this situation? And I never like did

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Speaker 4: anything about it. I just worried about it.

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Speaker 1: You know.

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Speaker 4: I wasn't like, I didn't like do anything to make

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Speaker 4: myself better I just worried about it until I found weed,

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Speaker 4: and then I was like, oh, weed solves this problem.

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Speaker 4: And then I just smoked weed, and I you know,

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Speaker 4: I would I would try whatever came my way. And

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Speaker 4: like I loved ecstasy, and I loved acid, and I

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Speaker 4: loved mushrooms. And then I didn't like coke, but I

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Speaker 4: loved Benzo's. And then I tried heroin in college and.

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Speaker 3: I liked how it was at a party with some people,

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Speaker 3: no big deal.

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Speaker 4: No, no, we didn't. I wasn't a partier. Like I

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Speaker 4: was the kind of drug addict, drug user that loved

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Speaker 4: to get high in my room. I like to get

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Speaker 4: high in my room with my friends or like one

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Speaker 4: friend or two friends. And we were like losers.

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Speaker 3: You know.

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Speaker 4: We'd listen to music or play video games or play

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Speaker 4: music and we would just stay or watch TV, you

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Speaker 4: know what I mean. Like we weren't like partiers. We

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Speaker 4: were like losers.

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Speaker 3: You had a room, you had a small intimate pack.

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Speaker 4: Always always, That's just how I how I relate. And

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Speaker 4: I tried heroin. I was in art school. There was

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Speaker 4: like my roommate was from Upstate York and one of

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Speaker 4: his childhood friends was in a band that was pretty successful,

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Speaker 4: and he had become a heroin adict and he but

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Speaker 4: he didn't. He wasn't like an ugly heroin aict. He

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Speaker 4: was like a beautiful young heroin addict who didn't know

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Speaker 4: that it was a problem yet, you know, the problem

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Speaker 4: wasn't real. And we were like, should we try it?

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Speaker 4: And I was like, yeah, let's I mean we do

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Speaker 4: everything else, let's try it. And I didn't. I liked

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Speaker 4: how it felt for a second, and then I got

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Speaker 4: really nauseous, like really sick, vomited immediately, maybe like fifteen

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Speaker 4: minutes in. Yeah, and I and at the end of it,

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Speaker 4: I was like, I don't want to do that. Like

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Speaker 4: I like smoking pot, I like being like hungry and

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Speaker 4: it being gentle and not worrying about anything. So I

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Speaker 4: put it aside. And then I like did a million

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Speaker 4: weird jobs, and I settled into television production and I

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Speaker 4: excelled at it. And after like a couple of years,

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Speaker 4: I was I was a host on TV and I

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Speaker 4: was producing TV shows. I was I was associated producing

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Speaker 4: and then I pitched a music show that I got

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Speaker 4: to do and I was the host of the show in.

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Speaker 3: The first time. I'm hearing of this show and I

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Speaker 3: find archives.

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Speaker 4: Just on YouTube. It was bullshit. It was a bullshit

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Speaker 4: tiny show that was it was. It was owned by

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Speaker 4: Lauren Michaels, who ran Saturday Night Live, and it was

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Speaker 4: it was before YouTube, so it was like ninety eight,

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Speaker 4: ninety seven, ninety nine. I was in that period, and

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Speaker 4: they would distribute this network to college campuses around the

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Speaker 4: country by VHS tape. Wow, so you get it was.

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Speaker 3: Like an amazing story. Okay, go ahead.

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Speaker 4: And I was a production assistant and I was I

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Speaker 4: mean also, when I was in high school, I was

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Speaker 4: on MTV, like I was actually on mt I was

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Speaker 4: an internet MTV, and I wound up on MTV in

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Speaker 4: high school, and I was like, I could be a

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Speaker 4: TV star, you know, and that's what I wanted to

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Speaker 4: be when I was a kid. I wanted to be

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Speaker 4: a talk show host, you know, That's what I wanted

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Speaker 4: to be. So when I settled in at this place,

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Speaker 4: I was a production assistant and they thought I was funny,

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Speaker 4: so they let me start hosting segments and then I

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Speaker 4: pitched a show idea. They had a music video show

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Speaker 4: and they didn't like the way it was being run.

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Speaker 4: And I was like I could do that, and they

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Speaker 4: were like okay. And then I looked in the box

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Speaker 4: of videos and the first video I found was a

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Speaker 4: krs one. It was a kros one video and I

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Speaker 4: looked and I was a huge music person, and back

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Speaker 4: in the day in New York City, if you looked

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Speaker 4: at the Village Voice, you saw the shows. I mean

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Speaker 4: you go right to the shows. And I see a

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Speaker 4: Tramp's KRS one is playing and I was like, and

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Speaker 4: now I have this TV show where I'm showing this

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Speaker 4: kras one video and I was like, why don't we

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Speaker 4: go see if we can interview KRS one. So I

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Speaker 4: contact his people. I had some book and I found

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Speaker 4: a way to contact his people and they were like, yeah,

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Speaker 4: come down. So we went to Tramps and I interviewed

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Speaker 4: caras One and we shot the show. And they were like,

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Speaker 4: you don't need to do the music video show. You

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Speaker 4: could do whatever show you want. So we created this

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Speaker 4: music video. It was good and it was fun, and

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Speaker 4: it was like it was like the idea. It was

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Speaker 4: going to be a music magazine show and I was

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Speaker 4: going to cover whatever acts I could get a hold of.

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Speaker 4: And since we were in New York and it was

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Speaker 4: a time where, like of opportunity, we could do it,

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Speaker 4: and they gave me a contract. And at the time,

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Speaker 4: I was like twenty three years old, and it was

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Speaker 4: it was and I lived in public housing. I didn't

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Speaker 4: need a lot of money, and they gave me a

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Speaker 4: bunch of money. And at the same time, I was

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Speaker 4: living with this kid that I had gone to college

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Speaker 4: with that I had done a ton of drugs with,

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Speaker 4: and he was delivering weed on his bike and he

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Speaker 4: would get coke all the time, and we would do coke.

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Speaker 4: And I went on a job for that production company,

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Speaker 4: and when I came home, the kid was in my

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Speaker 4: living room with like five other kids from my college

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Speaker 4: buying coke from this delivery guy. Me being like this

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Speaker 4: savvy New Yorker, I was like, you're making all this

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Speaker 4: money in my apartment, what are you going to give me?

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Speaker 4: And he takes out two bags of heroin and he

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Speaker 4: throws it down on our coffee table and me and

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Speaker 4: my friend Todd sniffed the heroin and got high and

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Speaker 4: didn't get nauseous, and I felt amazing. I felt amazing,

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Speaker 4: And then the next morning I was still high and

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Speaker 4: I felt even better. And I woke up and it

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Speaker 4: was like do do do?

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Speaker 3: Do? Do?

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Speaker 2: Do?

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Speaker 4: It was like what I wanted my life to look like.

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Speaker 4: Is how I felt when I woke up and I

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Speaker 4: had this job. I had this contract. I was making

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Speaker 4: money and it wasn't a lot of money, but it

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Speaker 4: was like as a twenty three year old who never

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Speaker 4: had any money, I was like, and this is how

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Speaker 4: stupid I was. I mean, all of my heroes were

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Speaker 4: multimillionaires who became Heroin addicts that couldn't handle Heroin. And

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Speaker 4: I'm fucking twenty three making like ninety grand and I'm like,

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Speaker 4: I can do it. And I and I remember, I

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Speaker 4: was like I'm going to do it. I'm not because

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Speaker 4: I would I would find myself using here and there,

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Speaker 4: and then I would feel a little shitty and I

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Speaker 4: would be like I can't use it. I'd spread it out.

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Speaker 4: And then when I got that contract, I was like,

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Speaker 4: I'm going to do this, and I just like and

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Speaker 4: I also liked the romance of being this TV producer,

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Speaker 4: TV host doing Heroin. I liked the it was pathetic,

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Speaker 4: but I liked the romance. I became addicted really quickly.

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Speaker 1: And really quickly, like put a time frame on that

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Speaker 1: for us, what's really quickly?

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Speaker 4: I mean, we were fucking around with it for half

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Speaker 4: a year. But then but then I'm like one of

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Speaker 4: the people, and I know how you like to pronounce

333
00:16:46,360 --> 00:16:51,000
Speaker 4: uh literally, how do you say it a literal? Literally?

334
00:16:51,840 --> 00:16:53,520
Speaker 4: I think I think you said in a different way

335
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Speaker 4: back literally. I literally decided that I was going to

336
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Speaker 4: do it every day. I like decided, like I was like,

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Speaker 4: I'm in I want to feel like this every day,

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Speaker 4: and I want to really not give a fuck. I

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Speaker 4: want to be like a t I want to be

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Speaker 4: like I'm cool, like I'm I'm like cool TV producer

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Speaker 4: because I'm a very soft person. Like I'm a very

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Speaker 4: soft person, very sensory person, and like I mean I

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Speaker 4: am that's a compliment.

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Speaker 3: I love that about you. I'm very soft and I'm

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Speaker 3: very genuine and caring and sensitive.

346
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Speaker 4: But I wanted to be harder, and I.

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Speaker 1: Wanted to be like the in the movies music producer something.

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Speaker 4: You know. I had some kind of romantic idea that

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Speaker 4: I wasn't a good I wasn't good, you know, the

350
00:17:41,840 --> 00:17:46,679
Speaker 4: way I was wasn't good right, and heroin like, And

351
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Speaker 4: it's funny because a little bit of heroin you don't

352
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Speaker 4: go bananas. But once you're doing a lot of heroin,

353
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Speaker 4: your personality really changes and you become insufferable, unreliable, pathetic,

354
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Speaker 4: you know. And I loved making my show, but within

355
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Speaker 4: a year I signed a three year deal. I don't

356
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Speaker 4: think I made it. I think I made it halfway

357
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Speaker 4: through the second year and I checked into a detox

358
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Speaker 4: and I had this decision to make was I going

359
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Speaker 4: to tell the company or was I going to tell

360
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Speaker 4: my parents? And I decided to tell my parents. I

361
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Speaker 4: don't know why. And the company fired me because I

362
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Speaker 4: was in breach of contract. But if I had told

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Speaker 4: the company, they would have had to send me someplace nice.

364
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Speaker 4: So that's one of the decisions over my life that

365
00:18:32,200 --> 00:18:34,960
Speaker 4: I've been like, why did I do that? And from there,

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Speaker 4: I don't know, like I just thought I was getting

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Speaker 4: away with it. I don't know, Like I don't know

368
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Speaker 4: what my logic was. I do know I was twenty

369
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Speaker 4: four years old. My parents were, you know, sixty year

370
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Speaker 4: old Jewish school teachers who were at the theater that night,

371
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Speaker 4: and they wound up coming directly from the theater to

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Speaker 4: the public detox and on fourteenth Street in Beth Israel,

373
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Speaker 4: and my mother was wearing like a silk scarf and

374
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Speaker 4: smell of perfume and I'm fucking in the hospital. Shit,

375
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Speaker 4: and like my parents had no idea, like because they

376
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Speaker 4: really didn't at all. They had no idea, and I

377
00:19:14,600 --> 00:19:18,080
Speaker 4: remember very well like they were aghast. But I remember

378
00:19:18,280 --> 00:19:20,520
Speaker 4: talking to the counselor and she was and she said

379
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Speaker 4: exactly the wrong thing to me. She said, you're young,

380
00:19:25,880 --> 00:19:29,040
Speaker 4: you can get past this, You'll be okay. And to

381
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Speaker 4: me that said go home and use heroin immediately, which

382
00:19:33,720 --> 00:19:37,640
Speaker 4: I did. And this is the preamble to a fifteen

383
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Speaker 4: year drug addiction, you know. And that was the best

384
00:19:41,160 --> 00:19:44,120
Speaker 4: it was. And from there, like it was just one

385
00:19:44,160 --> 00:19:47,000
Speaker 4: bottom after another. I went to Florida, I lost my

386
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Speaker 4: I mean I grew up in public housing in New

387
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Speaker 4: York City. My mother put me on a list to

388
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Speaker 4: get a cheap apartment when I was eleven. I got

389
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Speaker 4: it when I was twenty two wo and I lost

390
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Speaker 4: it when I was twenty six, and it was three

391
00:20:02,040 --> 00:20:05,240
Speaker 4: hundred dollars a month. Whoa, I know. So that was

392
00:20:05,280 --> 00:20:08,120
Speaker 4: the second big regret. But from there, like I moved

393
00:20:08,119 --> 00:20:12,639
Speaker 4: to la I started doing meth all the all the while,

394
00:20:12,760 --> 00:20:17,280
Speaker 4: like bopping between method and clinics and just like you know,

395
00:20:17,480 --> 00:20:21,760
Speaker 4: losing my life, you know, basically one one detox to

396
00:20:21,880 --> 00:20:25,000
Speaker 4: the next, one reab to the next, with stretches of

397
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Speaker 4: using whatever I could afford.

398
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Speaker 1: And one of the things, one of the things we

399
00:20:30,000 --> 00:20:31,919
Speaker 1: talk about in the book, Dave, is you don't know

400
00:20:31,920 --> 00:20:35,639
Speaker 1: what rock bottom is until you hit the ultimate rock bottom,

401
00:20:35,680 --> 00:20:39,200
Speaker 1: which is dead. And so like you said, just now,

402
00:20:39,320 --> 00:20:42,200
Speaker 1: like just hitting rock bottom after rock bottom after rock

403
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Speaker 1: bottom a young twenty three year old, like, were you

404
00:20:45,480 --> 00:20:48,440
Speaker 1: shocked how bad it could get? And I think this

405
00:20:48,520 --> 00:20:53,119
Speaker 1: is the worst, and then it can get worse, worst, worse, worse.

406
00:20:54,680 --> 00:20:59,280
Speaker 4: I think I'm always here for you. I think like

407
00:20:59,720 --> 00:21:02,879
Speaker 4: I knew. I was at an AA meeting this morning

408
00:21:02,920 --> 00:21:07,360
Speaker 4: and I was sharing about this, Like I'm a bougie

409
00:21:07,680 --> 00:21:10,359
Speaker 4: Heroin addict, you know what I mean. Like I think

410
00:21:11,240 --> 00:21:13,119
Speaker 4: like I wouldn't have survived with it. I wouldn't have

411
00:21:13,160 --> 00:21:15,040
Speaker 4: been I would have gotten sober if someone like took

412
00:21:15,040 --> 00:21:18,280
Speaker 4: away my cable TV, like I needed cable like and

413
00:21:18,680 --> 00:21:22,439
Speaker 4: snacks to really enjoy Heroin, Like I needed cigarettes, I

414
00:21:22,480 --> 00:21:26,520
Speaker 4: needed like oatmeal cream pies. I needed fucking cable like

415
00:21:26,840 --> 00:21:29,439
Speaker 4: I would have gotten sober. I would have gotten sober

416
00:21:29,560 --> 00:21:31,960
Speaker 4: so much earlier. But I had a lot of people

417
00:21:32,040 --> 00:21:35,919
Speaker 4: supporting my addiction along the way, and so for me,

418
00:21:36,000 --> 00:21:39,520
Speaker 4: it was like I mean, like the first bot, I mean,

419
00:21:39,560 --> 00:21:42,480
Speaker 4: like I The thing I'm not talking about was I

420
00:21:43,400 --> 00:21:47,800
Speaker 4: suffered seizures, many, many, many grandma seizures before I even

421
00:21:47,880 --> 00:21:51,000
Speaker 4: left New York, before I went to Florida, because I

422
00:21:51,080 --> 00:21:54,000
Speaker 4: was so addicted to Benzo's and I would stop taking them.

423
00:21:54,359 --> 00:21:56,760
Speaker 4: I had seizures where I fell out of my loft

424
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Speaker 4: bed onto a glass bong, cut up all over. The

425
00:22:00,359 --> 00:22:02,400
Speaker 4: cops had to drag me out of my apartment. I'm

426
00:22:02,440 --> 00:22:04,840
Speaker 4: like holding the doors so they won't take me out,

427
00:22:05,320 --> 00:22:08,960
Speaker 4: like waking up in a hospital, like just like over

428
00:22:09,040 --> 00:22:11,080
Speaker 4: and over, Like I had seizures on a plane. I

429
00:22:11,080 --> 00:22:13,879
Speaker 4: had seizures in detox, I had cazures in rehab. I

430
00:22:13,880 --> 00:22:17,240
Speaker 4: had seizures at work. So like that was like not good,

431
00:22:17,440 --> 00:22:19,840
Speaker 4: you know what I mean, as four bottoms. Then I

432
00:22:19,920 --> 00:22:22,880
Speaker 4: lost this apartment that I kind of planned on living

433
00:22:22,920 --> 00:22:25,240
Speaker 4: in that neighborhood my whole life. You know, my dad

434
00:22:25,280 --> 00:22:28,120
Speaker 4: still lives there. It's a beauty, It's like beautiful over there.

435
00:22:28,359 --> 00:22:31,480
Speaker 4: So I lost that. I lost my career, you know,

436
00:22:31,560 --> 00:22:34,119
Speaker 4: And I always thought I could get it back. And

437
00:22:34,200 --> 00:22:36,680
Speaker 4: I always thought that I was the person who thought

438
00:22:36,720 --> 00:22:39,639
Speaker 4: I could get away with shit, like I wanted to

439
00:22:39,640 --> 00:22:42,080
Speaker 4: be Ferris Bueller as a kid. And I always thought

440
00:22:42,080 --> 00:22:44,040
Speaker 4: and I could charm my way through shit and con

441
00:22:44,200 --> 00:22:46,520
Speaker 4: my way through shit and line my way through shit.

442
00:22:47,440 --> 00:22:50,680
Speaker 4: But that wasn't really true, you know, Like once I

443
00:22:50,760 --> 00:22:55,080
Speaker 4: lost the TV gig, nothing ever happened again for me

444
00:22:55,800 --> 00:22:58,040
Speaker 4: until I was sober, Like I didn't, I mean, I

445
00:22:58,080 --> 00:22:59,800
Speaker 4: popped up with a TV job. I moved a lot

446
00:22:59,800 --> 00:23:02,680
Speaker 4: of sat Angelus, became a matheatic, got a TV job

447
00:23:02,760 --> 00:23:06,800
Speaker 4: there I was. I was such a bad junkie in

448
00:23:07,000 --> 00:23:10,439
Speaker 4: LA that I had this TV job. There was a

449
00:23:10,440 --> 00:23:14,639
Speaker 4: bathroom we all used and I kept there was like

450
00:23:14,680 --> 00:23:19,119
Speaker 4: a drawer in the bathroom that I just kept needles in.

451
00:23:19,520 --> 00:23:21,280
Speaker 4: And I didn't tell anybody I had like a box

452
00:23:21,359 --> 00:23:24,240
Speaker 4: I just in comic books. That's how pathetic, That's what

453
00:23:24,320 --> 00:23:26,840
Speaker 4: a child I was. I had a tissue box full

454
00:23:26,880 --> 00:23:29,639
Speaker 4: of needles next to a stack of comic books in

455
00:23:29,680 --> 00:23:32,840
Speaker 4: a public bathroom where I worked, you know what I mean,

456
00:23:32,920 --> 00:23:35,320
Speaker 4: Like I don't, I don't know how I was. That's

457
00:23:35,359 --> 00:23:38,199
Speaker 4: how I I mean, and I think I'm similar to

458
00:23:38,400 --> 00:23:40,520
Speaker 4: that now sober like I'm a little I don't give

459
00:23:40,560 --> 00:23:43,879
Speaker 4: a fuck. I like doing dumb shit. I think it's funny.

460
00:23:44,640 --> 00:23:48,320
Speaker 4: But then it wasn't funny, and it was it was sad.

461
00:23:48,880 --> 00:23:52,480
Speaker 4: And I was enabled, and I took advantage of every

462
00:23:52,520 --> 00:23:56,960
Speaker 4: person I could, and I lied, and I stole and

463
00:23:56,960 --> 00:23:57,480
Speaker 4: and I did.

464
00:23:57,600 --> 00:23:59,400
Speaker 3: What was the turning point?

465
00:23:59,720 --> 00:24:03,439
Speaker 4: Turn point was I was on one hundred and fifty

466
00:24:03,440 --> 00:24:07,480
Speaker 4: milligrams of methadone and and and a ship ton of

467
00:24:07,480 --> 00:24:10,479
Speaker 4: clon and pen still addicted to still smoke, worked at

468
00:24:10,480 --> 00:24:13,080
Speaker 4: a weed dispensary. They paid me in weed somehow. I

469
00:24:13,119 --> 00:24:16,000
Speaker 4: was the security to guard at a weed dispenser in California,

470
00:24:16,080 --> 00:24:17,280
Speaker 4: and they paid me in weed.

471
00:24:18,840 --> 00:24:21,800
Speaker 1: First of all, that was definitely during the time that

472
00:24:21,880 --> 00:24:25,560
Speaker 1: it was only medical marijuana that was legal, So paying

473
00:24:25,680 --> 00:24:29,680
Speaker 1: someone in marijuana was definitely not part of the plant.

474
00:24:29,960 --> 00:24:32,119
Speaker 4: But how about hiring me, how about hiring me as

475
00:24:32,119 --> 00:24:35,320
Speaker 4: a security? Yeah, like what kind of business planet this

476
00:24:36,200 --> 00:24:40,720
Speaker 4: soft junkie? You know, like it's not I'm not the

477
00:24:40,800 --> 00:24:44,480
Speaker 4: ideal security for us, for them.

478
00:24:45,320 --> 00:24:47,560
Speaker 3: Or you were, But go ahead. That's why I don't

479
00:24:47,720 --> 00:24:49,600
Speaker 3: I have a hole. I won't take us down, Go ahead.

480
00:24:49,600 --> 00:24:51,080
Speaker 4: I don't. I don't think I could be a really

481
00:24:51,080 --> 00:24:53,800
Speaker 4: effective security guard, you know, eight and a half years

482
00:24:53,840 --> 00:24:56,359
Speaker 4: sober either, Like I don't think that's not my thing.

483
00:24:57,520 --> 00:25:02,040
Speaker 4: But anyway, I'm one hundred fifty milligrams of methadone, you know,

484
00:25:02,160 --> 00:25:06,639
Speaker 4: like eating like ten, like twenty milligrams of colonup in

485
00:25:06,680 --> 00:25:10,919
Speaker 4: a day, like just eating it, living, like doing as

486
00:25:11,000 --> 00:25:13,119
Speaker 4: much heroin as I could afford, which was very little

487
00:25:13,160 --> 00:25:16,240
Speaker 4: at the time, smoking as much weed as we would get.

488
00:25:16,520 --> 00:25:19,800
Speaker 4: And and my mom called me up and she had

489
00:25:20,000 --> 00:25:25,440
Speaker 4: gotten diagnosed with leukemia, and she told me she thought

490
00:25:25,480 --> 00:25:28,639
Speaker 4: she was going to die. And I was very much like,

491
00:25:29,920 --> 00:25:35,320
Speaker 4: I can't stay here like this. So I went to

492
00:25:35,359 --> 00:25:38,159
Speaker 4: the methadone clinic and I said, I need to detox,

493
00:25:38,200 --> 00:25:41,800
Speaker 4: and they offered me a blind detox where they they

494
00:25:42,280 --> 00:25:45,600
Speaker 4: they wean me off methadone for a year without telling

495
00:25:45,680 --> 00:25:49,760
Speaker 4: me my doses. And I wasn't clean, you know, I

496
00:25:49,840 --> 00:25:52,600
Speaker 4: was using the whole time. And when I said, tell

497
00:25:52,600 --> 00:25:55,080
Speaker 4: me when I get to thirty, they told me when

498
00:25:55,080 --> 00:26:00,159
Speaker 4: I got to thirty. And I went to detox and

499
00:26:00,640 --> 00:26:02,520
Speaker 4: and I got kicked out of detox. They were using

500
00:26:02,520 --> 00:26:04,960
Speaker 4: heroin and Detox and like I was on now Trek

501
00:26:05,040 --> 00:26:08,879
Speaker 4: Zone and some like it was crazy, like I'm on

502
00:26:09,440 --> 00:26:13,240
Speaker 4: I'm on now trek Zone in Detox, you know, public Detox.

503
00:26:13,480 --> 00:26:16,360
Speaker 4: Like the guy who slept next to me had been

504
00:26:16,400 --> 00:26:19,960
Speaker 4: an Alaskan crab fisherman and he was also a drug

505
00:26:20,000 --> 00:26:22,920
Speaker 4: dealer in downtown LA that I used to buy Klonopin from.

506
00:26:23,240 --> 00:26:25,480
Speaker 4: And he had a tattoo on his hand that said

507
00:26:25,560 --> 00:26:29,119
Speaker 4: pay here, and he had gotten in his crab fisherman days,

508
00:26:29,520 --> 00:26:31,840
Speaker 4: and like he would give me saraquill and I would

509
00:26:31,840 --> 00:26:34,560
Speaker 4: give him cigarettes. And we were both on now Trek

510
00:26:34,640 --> 00:26:41,440
Speaker 4: Zone and some Armenian kid comes in and like somebody

511
00:26:41,720 --> 00:26:46,320
Speaker 4: smuggles him some tar heroin. Everyone in the place uses it,

512
00:26:46,640 --> 00:26:49,239
Speaker 4: even like somebody busts a syringe out of like the

513
00:26:49,280 --> 00:26:51,760
Speaker 4: post and the bed in the Detox. I wasn't going

514
00:26:51,840 --> 00:26:54,280
Speaker 4: to start sharing syringes at that point, but I put

515
00:26:54,320 --> 00:26:56,280
Speaker 4: it up my nose even though I was blocked. I

516
00:26:56,320 --> 00:27:00,359
Speaker 4: get kicked out, totally sick, and I move an The

517
00:27:00,400 --> 00:27:04,240
Speaker 4: next day, Me and my girlfriend moved to Vermont from

518
00:27:04,280 --> 00:27:06,760
Speaker 4: California because my parents had a house up state and

519
00:27:06,800 --> 00:27:10,639
Speaker 4: I knew I could see my mom and when I

520
00:27:10,680 --> 00:27:12,480
Speaker 4: got there. My mom was like, I'm gonna die soon.

521
00:27:13,000 --> 00:27:15,520
Speaker 4: And I was off of methadone. I was still smoking weed.

522
00:27:15,840 --> 00:27:18,640
Speaker 4: I got a job, got a job in a Delhi.

523
00:27:18,720 --> 00:27:21,840
Speaker 4: I left left, my girlfriend left Vermont, got a job

524
00:27:21,880 --> 00:27:27,400
Speaker 4: in a deli, kept smoking weed. My mom died, met

525
00:27:27,440 --> 00:27:31,679
Speaker 4: this other woman started dating her, knocked her up, She

526
00:27:31,840 --> 00:27:35,439
Speaker 4: gets pregnant. I'm not I'm just smoking weed. And I

527
00:27:35,600 --> 00:27:40,800
Speaker 4: relapsing and my mom dies right right in there, and

528
00:27:40,800 --> 00:27:44,040
Speaker 4: and then I start relapsing on heroin again, and uh

529
00:27:44,160 --> 00:27:48,040
Speaker 4: and using like and using more maybe than I ever had,

530
00:27:48,119 --> 00:27:51,600
Speaker 4: because I had more money than I ever had waiting tables.

531
00:27:51,480 --> 00:27:53,560
Speaker 3: And you have more grief than you ever had with

532
00:27:53,680 --> 00:27:54,720
Speaker 3: your mom just died.

533
00:27:55,119 --> 00:28:01,679
Speaker 4: And this baby like pressure, pressure, pressure, and I was

534
00:28:01,760 --> 00:28:07,560
Speaker 4: just literally off the wall, like total insanity.

535
00:28:07,680 --> 00:28:09,119
Speaker 3: And this is what year by now.

536
00:28:09,040 --> 00:28:13,119
Speaker 4: Two thousand and seven, you know, And I'm working in

537
00:28:13,119 --> 00:28:15,400
Speaker 4: this deli and I'm using three hundred dollars a day,

538
00:28:16,000 --> 00:28:19,360
Speaker 4: and I'm taking benzos and I'm smoking weed and I'm

539
00:28:19,359 --> 00:28:23,159
Speaker 4: shooting dope and I'm and I have this kid, you know,

540
00:28:23,200 --> 00:28:26,000
Speaker 4: And my wife finds out we never got married and

541
00:28:26,040 --> 00:28:28,960
Speaker 4: she leaves me, you know, And then my addiction gets

542
00:28:29,280 --> 00:28:34,359
Speaker 4: much worse, and I'm alone and just sad and like pathetic,

543
00:28:36,200 --> 00:28:38,680
Speaker 4: but still like I wanted to get away with it,

544
00:28:38,800 --> 00:28:40,760
Speaker 4: like I didn't want to get sober. I mean, so

545
00:28:40,840 --> 00:28:46,480
Speaker 4: where are the bottoms everywhere? My mother's dead, my baby's gone,

546
00:28:46,960 --> 00:28:50,520
Speaker 4: I'm a child. I'm living in a subletted apartment in Manhattan,

547
00:28:50,720 --> 00:28:54,560
Speaker 4: working as a waiter. It was crazy. And then I

548
00:28:54,600 --> 00:28:59,800
Speaker 4: think I got hi. I literally or literally walked into

549
00:28:59,840 --> 00:29:04,400
Speaker 4: a wall broke my nose, and I called my daughter's

550
00:29:04,440 --> 00:29:06,840
Speaker 4: mother and I was like, I need help, and she

551
00:29:06,960 --> 00:29:09,320
Speaker 4: helped me find a spot to go to and I

552
00:29:09,400 --> 00:29:14,239
Speaker 4: went to this spot in Canaan, Connecticut called Mountainside, and

553
00:29:14,280 --> 00:29:19,000
Speaker 4: that's where I met Chris and I got sober. I

554
00:29:19,040 --> 00:29:22,000
Speaker 4: got sober for a year, and then I started smoking

555
00:29:22,000 --> 00:29:26,040
Speaker 4: wheed again and taking pills again and trying to work

556
00:29:26,080 --> 00:29:29,600
Speaker 4: it out with my daughter's mother and trying to get

557
00:29:29,640 --> 00:29:34,600
Speaker 4: my family back together, and I never could. And then

558
00:29:34,600 --> 00:29:36,560
Speaker 4: she's like, you know what, let's go on vacation together.

559
00:29:37,000 --> 00:29:40,400
Speaker 4: And I was like, okay, and me, Linda and our

560
00:29:40,480 --> 00:29:43,400
Speaker 4: daughter Nora go on a trip to an amusement park

561
00:29:43,400 --> 00:29:46,760
Speaker 4: in Pennsylvania and Linda takes a little bit of annex

562
00:29:46,840 --> 00:29:49,560
Speaker 4: to help her sleep, and I knew that, and I

563
00:29:49,680 --> 00:29:53,560
Speaker 4: steal all of it and she goes crazy and she

564
00:29:53,680 --> 00:29:56,400
Speaker 4: goes now, she's like, we're not getting back together, You're

565
00:29:56,480 --> 00:30:01,640
Speaker 4: losing custody. And I'm just like dem at that. And

566
00:30:01,720 --> 00:30:07,720
Speaker 4: I found myself in my kitchen, smoking cigarettes, smoking weed,

567
00:30:08,120 --> 00:30:12,160
Speaker 4: writing this letter to my daughter's mother, saying I can

568
00:30:12,240 --> 00:30:14,560
Speaker 4: be a good father, I can be a good partner.

569
00:30:15,120 --> 00:30:18,200
Speaker 4: Just let me smoke weed, you know. And I see

570
00:30:18,240 --> 00:30:22,240
Speaker 4: my hands writing this email and I'm just like, I'm like,

571
00:30:22,920 --> 00:30:26,600
Speaker 4: this is ridiculous. I was forty one. I was living

572
00:30:26,600 --> 00:30:28,800
Speaker 4: in the sublet of apartment working as a waiter, and

573
00:30:28,840 --> 00:30:32,920
Speaker 4: I was like, I have to consider something else. And

574
00:30:32,960 --> 00:30:36,720
Speaker 4: the next morning I found a meeting. I went to

575
00:30:36,760 --> 00:30:39,800
Speaker 4: the meeting and there was a kid there and he

576
00:30:39,880 --> 00:30:42,000
Speaker 4: was celebrating ten years and he was like a good

577
00:30:42,000 --> 00:30:45,960
Speaker 4: looking kid, like tattoos, and he looked like he had

578
00:30:45,960 --> 00:30:48,440
Speaker 4: his shit together. And I'm such a jerk off. At

579
00:30:48,440 --> 00:30:50,160
Speaker 4: the end of the meeting, I wanted to go up

580
00:30:50,160 --> 00:30:52,600
Speaker 4: to him to tell him how annoying I thought it

581
00:30:52,760 --> 00:30:55,160
Speaker 4: was that he was young and got ten years. I

582
00:30:55,200 --> 00:30:57,360
Speaker 4: thought that was funny, you know, And I went up

583
00:30:57,360 --> 00:30:59,720
Speaker 4: to him and I I Before I could even get

584
00:30:59,720 --> 00:31:02,440
Speaker 4: anything out of my mouth, he said how much time

585
00:31:02,480 --> 00:31:04,280
Speaker 4: do you have? And I said I don't have any time,

586
00:31:04,760 --> 00:31:07,440
Speaker 4: and he goes, well, did you use today? And I

587
00:31:07,480 --> 00:31:09,960
Speaker 4: said no, and he goes, oh, so maybe today is

588
00:31:10,000 --> 00:31:12,480
Speaker 4: going to be your first day. And I was like,

589
00:31:13,720 --> 00:31:19,080
Speaker 4: that's that's an interesting idea. And I was like, I'm

590
00:31:19,080 --> 00:31:21,400
Speaker 4: going to make today my first day. And I called

591
00:31:21,440 --> 00:31:24,480
Speaker 4: my best friend and I had a weed in my

592
00:31:24,680 --> 00:31:27,000
Speaker 4: I had like a stoner's paradise in my apartment. And

593
00:31:27,040 --> 00:31:29,479
Speaker 4: I gave all my weed to my best friend, and

594
00:31:29,520 --> 00:31:31,680
Speaker 4: I gave all the edibles to the guys I worked

595
00:31:31,680 --> 00:31:36,480
Speaker 4: with at the deli. And the next morning I found

596
00:31:36,480 --> 00:31:39,480
Speaker 4: another meeting that was seven thirty in the morning, and

597
00:31:39,560 --> 00:31:42,160
Speaker 4: I went there and the guy and I told this

598
00:31:42,280 --> 00:31:44,960
Speaker 4: story of how obsessed I was with getting my family back.

599
00:31:45,040 --> 00:31:48,240
Speaker 4: And I had heard that the obsession could be lifted,

600
00:31:48,440 --> 00:31:50,719
Speaker 4: and it was always the obsession to drink could be lifted,

601
00:31:50,720 --> 00:31:53,080
Speaker 4: the obsession to use could be but I heard obsession,

602
00:31:53,360 --> 00:31:56,960
Speaker 4: and I was obsessed with fucking up the situation with

603
00:31:57,000 --> 00:32:01,480
Speaker 4: my beautiful daughter and my beautiful daughter's mother. And I

604
00:32:01,600 --> 00:32:04,640
Speaker 4: was just like, I'm down. And I told the story,

605
00:32:05,080 --> 00:32:08,560
Speaker 4: and a guy in the meeting said, we'd love it

606
00:32:08,600 --> 00:32:12,479
Speaker 4: if you came back tomorrow, and I said okay, And

607
00:32:12,520 --> 00:32:14,400
Speaker 4: it turned out it was a seven day a week

608
00:32:14,440 --> 00:32:17,040
Speaker 4: meeting seven thirty in the morning. And then the next

609
00:32:17,040 --> 00:32:20,360
Speaker 4: thing I heard was, rarely have we seen someone thoroughly

610
00:32:20,400 --> 00:32:23,800
Speaker 4: follow this path and not achieve these results. And I

611
00:32:23,840 --> 00:32:27,280
Speaker 4: had never thoroughly followed any path besides using. And I

612
00:32:27,400 --> 00:32:30,920
Speaker 4: was fucking desperate as fuck, you know, So I did

613
00:32:30,960 --> 00:32:34,520
Speaker 4: it like I did it full on. I did ninety

614
00:32:34,520 --> 00:32:37,239
Speaker 4: meetings and ninety days. I spoke at ninety meetings like

615
00:32:37,680 --> 00:32:42,000
Speaker 4: I was just in and it all worked. And at

616
00:32:42,000 --> 00:32:45,040
Speaker 4: the same time, I was talking to my friend Chris

617
00:32:45,120 --> 00:32:47,960
Speaker 4: because he had just gotten sober, he had pulled it off.

618
00:32:47,960 --> 00:32:52,240
Speaker 4: He was a horrible drug addict and he had gotten

619
00:32:52,240 --> 00:32:54,720
Speaker 4: a year and a half through AA and I started

620
00:32:54,720 --> 00:32:58,320
Speaker 4: talking to him very often. And when I was working

621
00:32:58,320 --> 00:33:00,880
Speaker 4: at this deli, I had made this web series called

622
00:33:00,960 --> 00:33:03,800
Speaker 4: The Last Jewish Waiter, which was the It was a

623
00:33:03,880 --> 00:33:07,080
Speaker 4: video about a waiter who hates waiting tables and he

624
00:33:07,160 --> 00:33:08,960
Speaker 4: wants to have a talk show, so he does a

625
00:33:08,960 --> 00:33:11,360
Speaker 4: talk show while he waits tables. And it got like

626
00:33:11,400 --> 00:33:13,680
Speaker 4: a bunch of preths and people liked it, and Chris

627
00:33:13,760 --> 00:33:17,000
Speaker 4: was like, I want to do something like that, and

628
00:33:17,040 --> 00:33:19,560
Speaker 4: I was like, well, we could do a podcast, and

629
00:33:19,600 --> 00:33:21,920
Speaker 4: he goes, what's a podcast and I was like, I'm

630
00:33:21,960 --> 00:33:25,680
Speaker 4: not sure. I think it's like a radio show. And

631
00:33:25,760 --> 00:33:28,880
Speaker 4: he came down to my apartment and I was like,

632
00:33:29,000 --> 00:33:32,520
Speaker 4: it's just going to be war stories. And I was like,

633
00:33:32,920 --> 00:33:34,760
Speaker 4: it's just going to be war stories and we're going

634
00:33:34,840 --> 00:33:38,360
Speaker 4: to call it war Stories and oh.

635
00:33:38,200 --> 00:33:40,360
Speaker 3: And so it was first called war Stories.

636
00:33:40,760 --> 00:33:42,360
Speaker 4: Yeah, well it was supposed to be, but then we

637
00:33:42,400 --> 00:33:44,400
Speaker 4: looked up war stories and there was a podcast like

638
00:33:44,440 --> 00:33:53,200
Speaker 4: about actual war stories, and then, like, I mean, we

639
00:33:53,200 --> 00:33:54,840
Speaker 4: were trying to figure out what to call it. And

640
00:33:55,360 --> 00:33:57,000
Speaker 4: you know, I lived on the Lower East Side and

641
00:33:57,040 --> 00:33:59,680
Speaker 4: every day I would walk on Clinton Street in Manhattan,

642
00:34:00,120 --> 00:34:02,520
Speaker 4: and there one day I walked past some kid and

643
00:34:02,560 --> 00:34:07,040
Speaker 4: he's wearing a black hat with these gold like actual gold,

644
00:34:07,240 --> 00:34:10,960
Speaker 4: you know, like metal letters on his hat that said dope.

645
00:34:11,520 --> 00:34:14,759
Speaker 4: And I was like, and I thought of my my grandfather,

646
00:34:14,880 --> 00:34:17,319
Speaker 4: and I imagine my grandfather looking at this kid and

647
00:34:17,360 --> 00:34:19,960
Speaker 4: he'd be like, who's this fucking dope? And then I

648
00:34:20,040 --> 00:34:22,799
Speaker 4: just thought about like dope, Like you know, when I

649
00:34:22,920 --> 00:34:25,000
Speaker 4: grew up in the nineties and the word dope meant

650
00:34:25,000 --> 00:34:27,480
Speaker 4: cool and I like that. I like that, And then

651
00:34:27,520 --> 00:34:29,840
Speaker 4: and but then I also like hippies calling we dope.

652
00:34:30,080 --> 00:34:34,160
Speaker 4: And then I like my grandpa calling idiots dopes, you know,

653
00:34:34,320 --> 00:34:35,560
Speaker 4: And I was like, why don't we call it? And

654
00:34:35,600 --> 00:34:38,800
Speaker 4: then Chris goes, we should call it, uh two dopes

655
00:34:38,840 --> 00:34:41,640
Speaker 4: talking about dope, and I said, no, let's just call

656
00:34:41,680 --> 00:34:45,160
Speaker 4: it dopey. And that's that's when it all started. Yeah,

657
00:34:45,600 --> 00:34:46,960
Speaker 4: and that's a long winded story.

658
00:34:47,160 --> 00:34:49,239
Speaker 3: No, it was a beautiful story. I love it. First

659
00:34:49,239 --> 00:34:51,160
Speaker 3: of all, you crack me up calling me doctor Harrison.

660
00:34:51,680 --> 00:34:54,120
Speaker 4: I like it. It feels good. I'm enjoying.

661
00:34:54,160 --> 00:34:54,799
Speaker 3: I love it.

662
00:34:55,120 --> 00:34:56,120
Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm enjoying that.

663
00:34:57,000 --> 00:35:01,120
Speaker 1: David David Manheim, I won't get too psychiatric. But I

664
00:35:01,160 --> 00:35:03,920
Speaker 1: don't think it's a coincidence that the first time you

665
00:35:03,920 --> 00:35:06,120
Speaker 1: were in Detox you called your parents.

666
00:35:06,120 --> 00:35:07,920
Speaker 3: Your mom and I get down.

667
00:35:08,080 --> 00:35:13,560
Speaker 1: It's a coincidence that when your mom called you, that

668
00:35:13,760 --> 00:35:16,839
Speaker 1: was the first kind of like earnest, I'm gonna come

669
00:35:16,880 --> 00:35:20,000
Speaker 1: back and try this, even though it didn't work quote

670
00:35:20,080 --> 00:35:23,759
Speaker 1: that time. And then that it was family again that

671
00:35:23,840 --> 00:35:28,240
Speaker 1: brought you to the meetings that ultimately started your sobriety journey.

672
00:35:28,360 --> 00:35:31,680
Speaker 1: So like we're always asking people to look for what

673
00:35:31,880 --> 00:35:34,359
Speaker 1: is that thing that's bigger than you, that's like more

674
00:35:34,400 --> 00:35:37,400
Speaker 1: important to you than yourself, and over and over and

675
00:35:37,440 --> 00:35:41,560
Speaker 1: over in your story, it sounds like you believed it

676
00:35:41,640 --> 00:35:44,880
Speaker 1: was your career, but it sounds like it actually is

677
00:35:45,880 --> 00:35:47,200
Speaker 1: your family, right.

678
00:35:47,480 --> 00:35:49,960
Speaker 4: I mean in the end, it was it wasn't my

679
00:35:50,120 --> 00:35:53,399
Speaker 4: daughter as much as like I couldn't handle not being

680
00:35:53,440 --> 00:35:56,160
Speaker 4: able to be there yeah for her. Yeah, Like like

681
00:35:56,239 --> 00:35:57,680
Speaker 4: I like, in the end, like.

682
00:35:58,080 --> 00:36:00,440
Speaker 3: You want it more from yourself, I.

683
00:36:00,680 --> 00:36:03,799
Speaker 4: Wanted more for myself my dad. My dad would have

684
00:36:03,880 --> 00:36:08,520
Speaker 4: to drive me to my visitation and like everyone would

685
00:36:08,520 --> 00:36:15,040
Speaker 4: talk to him about my custody and it was so demoralizing,

686
00:36:15,680 --> 00:36:18,480
Speaker 4: but it was also like very fitting because I hadn't

687
00:36:18,600 --> 00:36:21,680
Speaker 4: been a responsible adult at a moment of my life. Yeah,

688
00:36:21,719 --> 00:36:24,040
Speaker 4: and I and it was in the end, it was

689
00:36:24,120 --> 00:36:27,640
Speaker 4: like I just I want to show up for this kid,

690
00:36:28,400 --> 00:36:30,560
Speaker 4: you know, And that's that was I mean, I wanted

691
00:36:30,600 --> 00:36:32,359
Speaker 4: to show up for my mom. Like me and my

692
00:36:32,400 --> 00:36:35,319
Speaker 4: mom like had a not a good relationship because I

693
00:36:35,400 --> 00:36:39,040
Speaker 4: was a drug addict for so long and before that

694
00:36:39,160 --> 00:36:43,080
Speaker 4: I was just such a defiant person like she and

695
00:36:43,120 --> 00:36:46,120
Speaker 4: she was such a controlling Jewish mother like I just

696
00:36:46,600 --> 00:36:49,480
Speaker 4: like we had problems. So when I found out she

697
00:36:49,560 --> 00:36:51,759
Speaker 4: was dying, I was like something inside me said I

698
00:36:51,800 --> 00:36:55,680
Speaker 4: got to go home, which was deep. And then when

699
00:36:55,680 --> 00:36:58,080
Speaker 4: I recognized that I couldn't take care of my child

700
00:36:58,320 --> 00:37:01,160
Speaker 4: and my parents took care of me, that was so yeah,

701
00:37:01,200 --> 00:37:03,080
Speaker 4: I agree with you. Family is the thing.

702
00:37:03,760 --> 00:37:04,320
Speaker 3: Yeah.

703
00:37:04,760 --> 00:37:07,160
Speaker 1: And so then it was a kernel of hope from

704
00:37:07,200 --> 00:37:11,040
Speaker 1: this good looking, tattooed young kid with ten years that said,

705
00:37:11,080 --> 00:37:13,719
Speaker 1: maybe today it'll be your first day. And then it

706
00:37:13,800 --> 00:37:17,759
Speaker 1: was warm arms of compassion at the next meeting where

707
00:37:17,760 --> 00:37:20,759
Speaker 1: they said we hope you'll come back. Yeah, And that

708
00:37:20,880 --> 00:37:24,440
Speaker 1: started your ninety days ninety meetings and ninety days was

709
00:37:24,480 --> 00:37:25,840
Speaker 1: the beginning of your formula.

710
00:37:26,040 --> 00:37:27,520
Speaker 3: So what's your formula today?

711
00:37:27,960 --> 00:37:30,799
Speaker 4: Well, I mean we started making Dope when I had

712
00:37:30,920 --> 00:37:34,720
Speaker 4: six months sober, yeah, and now I have eight years

713
00:37:34,719 --> 00:37:38,560
Speaker 4: and six months, you know, basically, and I'm still making

714
00:37:38,600 --> 00:37:41,040
Speaker 4: the show. So I think dope is a is a

715
00:37:41,200 --> 00:37:43,279
Speaker 4: you know, I always say that dope isn't a part

716
00:37:43,280 --> 00:37:47,560
Speaker 4: of my recovery because I also say dope doesn't help people,

717
00:37:47,600 --> 00:37:51,239
Speaker 4: Like I say a lot of stuff that isn't necessarily true.

718
00:37:52,160 --> 00:37:54,560
Speaker 3: As you know, I mean, that's the first step.

719
00:37:54,320 --> 00:37:59,680
Speaker 4: Right, My recipe is, I mean number one is twelve

720
00:37:59,760 --> 00:38:02,360
Speaker 4: seve you know, like and I never wanted that. I

721
00:38:02,400 --> 00:38:06,560
Speaker 4: would much rather be like some some like you know, Buddhist,

722
00:38:06,719 --> 00:38:11,480
Speaker 4: you know, some like Buddhist intellectual. But I needed, I needed,

723
00:38:11,719 --> 00:38:14,960
Speaker 4: I mean, I needed twelve Step and it it totally

724
00:38:15,080 --> 00:38:19,760
Speaker 4: saved my life and and really participating in it saved

725
00:38:19,760 --> 00:38:24,120
Speaker 4: my life and doing every bit of it like drinking

726
00:38:24,160 --> 00:38:28,960
Speaker 4: the kool aid, because the greatest thing about twelve step

727
00:38:29,360 --> 00:38:32,880
Speaker 4: is at its core is that love intolerance is the code.

728
00:38:33,360 --> 00:38:36,840
Speaker 4: And if love intolerance is the code, what can go wrong? Really,

729
00:38:37,200 --> 00:38:39,279
Speaker 4: you know, and if and the promises if it says

730
00:38:39,360 --> 00:38:43,040
Speaker 4: we have ceased fighting, love intolerance is the code. The

731
00:38:43,080 --> 00:38:46,359
Speaker 4: goal is to be happy, joyous and free. Uh and

732
00:38:46,400 --> 00:38:48,720
Speaker 4: the only way you can get there is by being honest,

733
00:38:48,800 --> 00:38:51,680
Speaker 4: open minded and willing. I found that all of those

734
00:38:51,719 --> 00:38:54,960
Speaker 4: things were what I wanted in my life. So it

735
00:38:55,120 --> 00:38:58,680
Speaker 4: set up exactly. I never but I didn't want to

736
00:38:58,680 --> 00:39:02,160
Speaker 4: be a member of fucking alcoholics anonymous, Like I didn't

737
00:39:02,160 --> 00:39:03,840
Speaker 4: want it. But I didn't want to be a member

738
00:39:03,840 --> 00:39:06,640
Speaker 4: of alcoholics anonymous. I wasn't even I didn't even drink,

739
00:39:07,040 --> 00:39:10,000
Speaker 4: but when I heard like what are you willing to do?

740
00:39:10,520 --> 00:39:13,640
Speaker 4: I was willing to say I'm an alcoholic, Like who cares?

741
00:39:14,000 --> 00:39:15,880
Speaker 4: You know what I mean? Like, and Chris was always like,

742
00:39:15,960 --> 00:39:20,319
Speaker 4: you're an alcoholic anyway, even if you didn't drink, and

743
00:39:20,400 --> 00:39:23,280
Speaker 4: like that's a whole other debate. But I every morning

744
00:39:23,320 --> 00:39:25,120
Speaker 4: I say I'm an alcoholic, you know, and I don't

745
00:39:25,120 --> 00:39:27,799
Speaker 4: care because it's saved my life. It's like, these are

746
00:39:27,800 --> 00:39:31,000
Speaker 4: the moments, like I'm very interested in what you're talking about.

747
00:39:31,040 --> 00:39:34,160
Speaker 4: A thousand ways in thousan infinite ways in infinite ways out.

748
00:39:34,400 --> 00:39:40,000
Speaker 4: We've talked about that for years and I needed this way,

749
00:39:40,680 --> 00:39:42,840
Speaker 4: you know. And I was talking to a friend just now.

750
00:39:43,320 --> 00:39:47,480
Speaker 4: It's like so many people can't get sober because God

751
00:39:48,000 --> 00:39:52,480
Speaker 4: discuss them scares them, you know, it doesn't resonate with them,

752
00:39:53,000 --> 00:39:55,960
Speaker 4: and they're not willing to say I'm an alcoholic and

753
00:39:56,040 --> 00:39:59,719
Speaker 4: like so it's like I want to offer, you know,

754
00:39:59,800 --> 00:40:02,680
Speaker 4: like you do. I want to offer other paths, but

755
00:40:02,719 --> 00:40:05,920
Speaker 4: it's like is I think for me the magic was

756
00:40:07,360 --> 00:40:09,640
Speaker 4: the willingness, you know. For me, it was like what

757
00:40:09,680 --> 00:40:11,560
Speaker 4: are you willing to do? I'm willing to do that

758
00:40:12,080 --> 00:40:14,000
Speaker 4: and then I'm doing it, like I'm willing to make

759
00:40:14,040 --> 00:40:16,480
Speaker 4: a decision to do that, then I'm doing it and

760
00:40:16,520 --> 00:40:20,000
Speaker 4: then like it's like like it's like that's the secret sauce,

761
00:40:20,040 --> 00:40:22,399
Speaker 4: that's the magic. Like if you ever processed it.

762
00:40:22,840 --> 00:40:24,520
Speaker 3: Go, Dave, tell me the code again?

763
00:40:25,760 --> 00:40:26,480
Speaker 4: Which code?

764
00:40:26,840 --> 00:40:29,160
Speaker 3: Oh? Love intolerance, love intolerance.

765
00:40:29,320 --> 00:40:32,000
Speaker 1: I think no matter, yeah, I think, no matter what.

766
00:40:32,280 --> 00:40:36,960
Speaker 1: Path kind of just innately neurologically, as pack animals and

767
00:40:37,040 --> 00:40:40,760
Speaker 1: human beings, love and tolerance has to be the code

768
00:40:41,400 --> 00:40:43,120
Speaker 1: of the path, right, and.

769
00:40:43,080 --> 00:40:46,160
Speaker 4: So isn't amazing. It's like people don't fucking talk about

770
00:40:46,200 --> 00:40:48,680
Speaker 4: that at all. It's like they talk about twelve step,

771
00:40:48,760 --> 00:40:51,160
Speaker 4: but you don't hear everybody being like, love and tolerance is.

772
00:40:51,400 --> 00:40:59,279
Speaker 1: Right, right, literal applies to every thing in life that

773
00:40:59,360 --> 00:41:03,120
Speaker 1: ails us. I am o in my opinion, I am

774
00:41:03,600 --> 00:41:06,120
Speaker 1: in case you didn't know what I am, I am

775
00:41:06,160 --> 00:41:06,840
Speaker 1: O A w.

776
00:41:08,360 --> 00:41:13,359
Speaker 3: Wait, but in my opinion as well, ah boom, Yeah,

777
00:41:13,400 --> 00:41:16,920
Speaker 3: the neurons were slow to fire, but they came. They

778
00:41:16,920 --> 00:41:17,800
Speaker 3: came to the party.

779
00:41:18,880 --> 00:41:24,319
Speaker 4: Listen. I mean I I it's I love love intolerance,

780
00:41:24,520 --> 00:41:26,399
Speaker 4: Like I think it's just the best. You know, It's

781
00:41:26,440 --> 00:41:30,719
Speaker 4: like because because like I'm personally like bursting with love

782
00:41:30,880 --> 00:41:34,200
Speaker 4: all the time, and I and like and when I'm not, like,

783
00:41:34,239 --> 00:41:36,239
Speaker 4: there's a problem, Like you know what I mean, So

784
00:41:36,320 --> 00:41:38,120
Speaker 4: you have to figure out how to tap into it.

785
00:41:38,200 --> 00:41:42,279
Speaker 4: And and and even if you don't love somebody, how

786
00:41:42,320 --> 00:41:45,600
Speaker 4: do you find love in the situation? And then if

787
00:41:45,640 --> 00:41:49,680
Speaker 4: you can't, it's like and that's where surrender comes in,

788
00:41:49,840 --> 00:41:51,759
Speaker 4: you know what I mean. That's where surrender, that's where

789
00:41:51,840 --> 00:41:54,200
Speaker 4: higher power, like I didn't, I mean my dad when

790
00:41:54,239 --> 00:41:56,120
Speaker 4: I told my dad I was doing AA and talked

791
00:41:56,160 --> 00:41:59,439
Speaker 4: about higher power and stuff. My dad was he called

792
00:41:59,520 --> 00:42:02,040
Speaker 4: himself an Orthodox atheist. You know, he grew up in

793
00:42:02,080 --> 00:42:07,080
Speaker 4: an Orthodox Jewish home. He was big in synagogue, and

794
00:42:07,120 --> 00:42:10,480
Speaker 4: then he got really into science and evolution, and when

795
00:42:10,480 --> 00:42:14,160
Speaker 4: he found out the two didn't really coexist, he chose

796
00:42:14,200 --> 00:42:18,560
Speaker 4: science and now he like hates religion and things like

797
00:42:18,800 --> 00:42:21,200
Speaker 4: my dad. I mean, my dad is a very loving person,

798
00:42:21,239 --> 00:42:23,800
Speaker 4: but I can imagine, like he would never wear a

799
00:42:23,840 --> 00:42:26,080
Speaker 4: shirt that said God is for suckers. But I think

800
00:42:26,120 --> 00:42:29,400
Speaker 4: in his head he might think God is for suckers.

801
00:42:29,440 --> 00:42:32,200
Speaker 4: And I think for a multitude of reasons, he didn't

802
00:42:32,200 --> 00:42:35,200
Speaker 4: need it. Number one and number two, he hates the

803
00:42:35,320 --> 00:42:39,360
Speaker 4: idea of religion keeping people apart. So it's like I

804
00:42:39,440 --> 00:42:42,640
Speaker 4: get that. For me, God is I mean, there's a

805
00:42:42,680 --> 00:42:46,439
Speaker 4: passage in the Big Book of Alcoholics Anonymous that says

806
00:42:46,680 --> 00:42:49,400
Speaker 4: God is everything or God is nothing. And I always

807
00:42:49,440 --> 00:42:52,359
Speaker 4: took it as a very snarky thing, like either you

808
00:42:52,400 --> 00:42:55,080
Speaker 4: put God in front of everything or you don't have

809
00:42:55,120 --> 00:42:57,279
Speaker 4: God at all. But then I came to this other

810
00:42:57,360 --> 00:43:00,760
Speaker 4: interpretation of it, which is just that God is everything,

811
00:43:01,200 --> 00:43:03,759
Speaker 4: and I can relate to that. God is everywhere. God

812
00:43:03,840 --> 00:43:07,320
Speaker 4: is the universe, and it's not Jesus and it's not Allah,

813
00:43:07,360 --> 00:43:10,480
Speaker 4: and it's not Buddha, and it's not Yahweh or whatever

814
00:43:10,520 --> 00:43:13,719
Speaker 4: we want to call it. It's everything and I and

815
00:43:13,760 --> 00:43:17,680
Speaker 4: I can from my psychedelic days, or from my love

816
00:43:17,719 --> 00:43:20,640
Speaker 4: of music, or from my like the fact that we

817
00:43:20,719 --> 00:43:24,280
Speaker 4: can relate or have love. We only met once in person,

818
00:43:24,320 --> 00:43:26,360
Speaker 4: but we weread deep love, right, we had.

819
00:43:26,360 --> 00:43:29,239
Speaker 1: Deep love before we even met, because we only just

820
00:43:29,320 --> 00:43:32,120
Speaker 1: recently met a couple of months ago, but we go

821
00:43:32,239 --> 00:43:34,160
Speaker 1: back years exactly.

822
00:43:34,200 --> 00:43:36,720
Speaker 4: But but the fact that we can experience love, I

823
00:43:36,760 --> 00:43:39,200
Speaker 4: and I sound like a weirdo, but like that's God.

824
00:43:39,040 --> 00:43:42,399
Speaker 3: To me, you know, like spot on. But maybe we're

825
00:43:42,440 --> 00:43:44,480
Speaker 3: just maybe we're just in the same WORDO club.

826
00:43:45,000 --> 00:43:48,520
Speaker 4: Definitely it's not. And you know, I feel I feel

827
00:43:48,680 --> 00:43:50,600
Speaker 4: I feel excited that you're in my club, but I

828
00:43:50,600 --> 00:43:52,360
Speaker 4: feel sad for you that you have to have me

829
00:43:52,480 --> 00:43:53,000
Speaker 4: in yours.

830
00:43:54,760 --> 00:44:00,399
Speaker 1: Okay, listen, this time flew too fast. But we're at

831
00:44:00,560 --> 00:44:03,319
Speaker 1: the top or the bottom, whatever you want to call it.

832
00:44:03,360 --> 00:44:06,000
Speaker 1: So this is the last question I asked everybody. Dave,

833
00:44:07,920 --> 00:44:09,440
Speaker 1: we made up this word n addiction?

834
00:44:10,160 --> 00:44:10,879
Speaker 4: Yeah, I like it.

835
00:44:11,239 --> 00:44:11,719
Speaker 3: Thanks.

836
00:44:12,080 --> 00:44:15,520
Speaker 1: Unlearn what you think you know about addiction, Undo the

837
00:44:15,520 --> 00:44:19,120
Speaker 1: stigma that's killing people. Uncover the conversations we need to

838
00:44:19,160 --> 00:44:22,320
Speaker 1: be having. So if you wanted to leave us with

839
00:44:22,320 --> 00:44:26,279
Speaker 1: with one thing that we need to unlearn, or one

840
00:44:26,320 --> 00:44:30,040
Speaker 1: stigma we need to undo, or one conversation we need

841
00:44:30,080 --> 00:44:32,560
Speaker 1: to uncover, what would it be.

842
00:44:33,040 --> 00:44:34,120
Speaker 4: That's a hard question.

843
00:44:34,560 --> 00:44:37,200
Speaker 3: Yeah. Sometimes I give a heads up at the beginning

844
00:44:37,239 --> 00:44:37,520
Speaker 3: of the.

845
00:44:39,960 --> 00:44:43,920
Speaker 1: But I find you do hat I must being harassed

846
00:44:43,960 --> 00:44:45,360
Speaker 1: at the beginning of this episode.

847
00:44:45,360 --> 00:44:47,439
Speaker 3: Then I had to get my dopey hat. And then

848
00:44:47,920 --> 00:44:49,080
Speaker 3: you know, there were a lot of.

849
00:44:49,880 --> 00:44:53,400
Speaker 4: So what are my choices? What do I want to uncovering?

850
00:44:53,440 --> 00:44:54,600
Speaker 3: You want people to unlearn?

851
00:44:54,800 --> 00:44:57,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, what's one stigma you want people to undo or

852
00:44:58,000 --> 00:45:00,600
Speaker 1: want one conversation you want people to unco you only

853
00:45:00,600 --> 00:45:02,040
Speaker 1: have to come up with one, not one eat.

854
00:45:02,840 --> 00:45:04,480
Speaker 4: It's all love, you know what I mean? Like, I

855
00:45:04,520 --> 00:45:08,120
Speaker 4: want people to uncover love in every situation. I want

856
00:45:08,160 --> 00:45:14,440
Speaker 4: them to undo bullshit, hate and like just like being

857
00:45:14,560 --> 00:45:19,480
Speaker 4: nasty and like just like there's no life is short,

858
00:45:19,640 --> 00:45:21,640
Speaker 4: you know what I mean. Find something you like and

859
00:45:21,680 --> 00:45:24,520
Speaker 4: stick with it, you know, and try. I mean, that's

860
00:45:24,560 --> 00:45:28,120
Speaker 4: the answer for recovery. That's it. I mean, like, beyond

861
00:45:28,200 --> 00:45:31,160
Speaker 4: everything else, you find something you like and don't stop

862
00:45:31,239 --> 00:45:34,239
Speaker 4: doing it and then don't use but I would just

863
00:45:34,360 --> 00:45:37,239
Speaker 4: you know, I'm sticking with uh with love, you know,

864
00:45:37,320 --> 00:45:41,600
Speaker 4: where can you find it? Uncover the love, Discover the love,

865
00:45:41,840 --> 00:45:43,640
Speaker 4: unlearn the hate. What was the other one?

866
00:45:44,120 --> 00:45:44,520
Speaker 3: Undo?

867
00:45:44,800 --> 00:45:46,440
Speaker 4: Undo the bullshit, just stick with the.

868
00:45:48,880 --> 00:45:51,319
Speaker 3: That is the dopey version of unaddiction.

869
00:45:51,640 --> 00:45:55,839
Speaker 1: Wait, unlearn the hate, undo the bullshit, uncover the love.

870
00:45:56,239 --> 00:45:56,719
Speaker 4: There you go.

871
00:45:58,160 --> 00:46:00,359
Speaker 3: Do you have a Mac will let you do this?

872
00:46:01,120 --> 00:46:02,799
Speaker 4: I don't know. I have a Mac, but I don't

873
00:46:02,800 --> 00:46:05,760
Speaker 4: know if my hands can do that. It's not giving

874
00:46:05,760 --> 00:46:09,760
Speaker 4: me love. Fucking bullshit. I think this computer is anti Semitic.

875
00:46:10,239 --> 00:46:12,759
Speaker 4: It's not giving me fucking love. What the fuck.

876
00:46:14,400 --> 00:46:16,680
Speaker 3: What do you do? Dave?

877
00:46:16,840 --> 00:46:19,080
Speaker 4: Thank you, thank you, Doctor Harrison.

878
00:46:19,080 --> 00:46:21,360
Speaker 3: I'm coming to New York again soon. We'll get together.

879
00:46:21,920 --> 00:46:23,399
Speaker 4: Yeah, I'll read the book and you can come back

880
00:46:23,440 --> 00:46:26,480
Speaker 4: on the Old Dope Show. Yeah, boom Killer.

881
00:46:27,760 --> 00:46:30,160
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for tuning in, And if you

882
00:46:30,280 --> 00:46:33,480
Speaker 1: like this episode, please check out my book on addiction

883
00:46:33,920 --> 00:46:38,440
Speaker 1: Six Mind Changing Conversations that Could Save a Life, available

884
00:46:38,480 --> 00:46:43,600
Speaker 1: at Barnes Andnoble Bookshop, dot Org, Union Squaring Company, Amazon.

885
00:46:43,480 --> 00:46:44,840
Speaker 3: And wherever books are sold.

886
00:46:45,560 --> 00:46:48,120
Speaker 1: If you like to this episode, please share it with

887
00:46:48,160 --> 00:46:51,480
Speaker 1: someone you think may need to hear it. Also, please

888
00:46:51,480 --> 00:46:54,960
Speaker 1: subscribe to this podcast and leave a five star review

889
00:46:55,400 --> 00:46:57,680
Speaker 1: that helps us reach any and everyone who may be

890
00:46:57,800 --> 00:46:59,920
Speaker 1: looking for support in the face of addiction.

891
00:47:00,040 --> 00:47:00,080
Speaker 2: E