WEBVTT - Savannah Guthrie on why a little fear is a good thing 0:00:04.120 --> 0:00:06.120 What do you do when life doesn't go according to 0:00:06.200 --> 0:00:09.760 plan that moment you lose a job, or a loved one, 0:00:10.280 --> 0:00:14.080 or even a piece of yourself. I'm Brookshields and this 0:00:14.560 --> 0:00:18.759 is now What, a podcast about pivotal moments as told 0:00:18.760 --> 0:00:21.600 by people who lived them. Each week, I sit down 0:00:21.600 --> 0:00:23.840 with a guest to talk about the times they were 0:00:23.920 --> 0:00:26.920 knocked off course and what they did to move forward. 0:00:27.880 --> 0:00:33.080 Some stories are funny, others are gut wrenching, but all 0:00:33.360 --> 0:00:38.320 are unapologetically human and remind us that every success and 0:00:38.479 --> 0:00:42.839 every setback is accompanied by a choice, and that choice 0:00:43.000 --> 0:00:45.680 answers one question, now what. 0:00:49.280 --> 0:00:52.280 I had wonderful parents, and they loved us and cared 0:00:52.280 --> 0:00:54.800 for us. But they weren't the kind of parents who 0:00:54.840 --> 0:00:58.560 were like, hey, the SATs in May, are we studying. 0:00:58.600 --> 0:00:59.200 Parents at that? 0:00:59.480 --> 0:01:01.920 I mean no, they knew that when the essayt was 0:01:01.960 --> 0:01:04.440 and I mean didn't even know to drive me to it. 0:01:04.680 --> 0:01:07.559 You know it was. I did it all on my own, 0:01:07.680 --> 0:01:09.840 and you did too, Yeah I did. 0:01:09.959 --> 0:01:11.720 I mean I did it all in my I mean 0:01:11.760 --> 0:01:14.400 my mom didn't even know deadlines to apply for college. 0:01:15.280 --> 0:01:17.679 They weren't asking me about my essay. They weren't, you know. 0:01:17.840 --> 0:01:19.800 No, none of it. That's what makes me laugh. Like 0:01:19.959 --> 0:01:22.520 I asked my mom recently, I'm like, hey, Mom, you 0:01:22.560 --> 0:01:24.800 know I got like, you know, pretty average on my 0:01:24.920 --> 0:01:27.360 essayt you know, like, did you ever were you ever 0:01:27.520 --> 0:01:29.120 thinking like maybe we should set up in one of 0:01:29.160 --> 0:01:32.240 these prep courses or whatever, or did I And she said, no. 0:01:32.280 --> 0:01:34.000 Honey, was your test on my test? 0:01:34.360 --> 0:01:35.040 Oh my god. 0:01:35.080 --> 0:01:35.560 I love that. 0:01:35.760 --> 0:01:38.720 I'm like, boom, that's Nancy Guthrie in a nutshell. 0:01:43.520 --> 0:01:47.000 My guest today is Savannah gut Thrie. Savannah is an 0:01:47.000 --> 0:01:52.000 award winning journalist, a TV personality, an author, a former attorney, 0:01:52.440 --> 0:01:56.800 a loving wife and mother, and so much more. She's 0:01:56.840 --> 0:01:59.880 been with NBC for more than a decade, during what 0:02:00.240 --> 0:02:04.240 she's moderated debates, covered some of the biggest news stories 0:02:04.280 --> 0:02:09.640 of the decade, and has interviewed world leaders, celebrities, and 0:02:09.720 --> 0:02:16.040 newsmakers alike. Savannah is razor sharp, empathetic, and incredibly down 0:02:16.120 --> 0:02:19.639 to earth. We've met a number of times over the years, 0:02:20.240 --> 0:02:23.399 and she's always a breath of fresh air. I hope 0:02:23.400 --> 0:02:25.960 you enjoyed this interview as much as I do. Here 0:02:26.040 --> 0:02:31.520 is Savannah Guthrie. 0:02:32.480 --> 0:02:33.600 I know how busy you are. 0:02:33.680 --> 0:02:38.440 I cannot even imagine, and next time when we get 0:02:38.440 --> 0:02:40.559 a chance to talk, I want to do it in person. 0:02:40.440 --> 0:02:42.799 Whether we're podcasting or not. I want to see you. 0:02:43.120 --> 0:02:45.280 Absolutely, and I would like to have let's see what's 0:02:45.280 --> 0:02:47.600 your cocktail of choice these days, because mine's still pretty 0:02:47.639 --> 0:02:49.079 much tequila, but oh. 0:02:48.960 --> 0:02:51.440 My god, me too, vodka soda with like squeezed half 0:02:51.440 --> 0:02:52.560 a lime and lots of ice. 0:02:52.880 --> 0:02:54.119 I call it a savinita. 0:02:54.280 --> 0:02:58.760 Savanita. I like that, Hey, you're onto something, Thank you 0:02:58.840 --> 0:03:00.760 so much. And I know that you're schedule is so 0:03:00.840 --> 0:03:04.200 different than most people's, Like I don't think people I'm 0:03:04.240 --> 0:03:07.840 friends with people who are also like in your industry 0:03:07.880 --> 0:03:08.840 and they go to bed. 0:03:08.639 --> 0:03:10.400 At eight Loserville. 0:03:10.440 --> 0:03:11.400 Well no, but. 0:03:11.320 --> 0:03:14.840 Also it's actually kind of the times that I've done it, 0:03:14.880 --> 0:03:18.520 there's something really kind of quiet and beautiful about the 0:03:18.639 --> 0:03:21.600 time on both ends. Yeah, you were quoted once as 0:03:21.600 --> 0:03:23.760 saying your perfect dinner time is four. 0:03:24.040 --> 0:03:26.240 Well, you know, there's all these articles now that say 0:03:26.320 --> 0:03:28.919 that in New York City, like six is the new 0:03:29.600 --> 0:03:32.280 eight or five is the new seven, And I'm like, no, 0:03:32.360 --> 0:03:34.800 I don't want anyone to find out this wonderful secret 0:03:34.840 --> 0:03:38.480 that eating at five or four is really awesome. 0:03:38.800 --> 0:03:42.880 I always love hearing people talk about their early years. 0:03:43.480 --> 0:03:46.680 My early years were all documented, so it's never a 0:03:46.720 --> 0:03:50.400 surprise to anybody. What were you like as a little girl. 0:03:50.520 --> 0:03:53.520 You were from Tucson, you said, yeah, Tucson, Arizona. 0:03:53.720 --> 0:03:57.640 My godmother was from Tucson. So I spent so many summers. 0:03:57.920 --> 0:04:01.120 You did Tucson, yep. And then we spent time in Prescott, 0:04:01.160 --> 0:04:03.600 and we would like when we were being sort of fancy, 0:04:03.640 --> 0:04:05.560 we'd go to Phoenix and we would go to the 0:04:05.560 --> 0:04:08.400 Biltmore Wow, and I'd get to swim in that pool. 0:04:09.080 --> 0:04:09.960 It was sun Tea. 0:04:10.080 --> 0:04:11.840 Was the first time I ever knew about sun Tea 0:04:12.000 --> 0:04:13.440 was was in Tucson. 0:04:14.400 --> 0:04:16.320 How have we never talked about this? I mean, this 0:04:16.400 --> 0:04:19.320 is it's so unique. Most people have barely even heard 0:04:19.320 --> 0:04:21.920 of Tucson, and here you were there in the summer, 0:04:22.000 --> 0:04:23.600 so you know what it's like to be a kid 0:04:23.760 --> 0:04:26.120 outside and how hot it is. By the way, you 0:04:26.160 --> 0:04:29.360 also said Prescott, right, it's not Prescott's. 0:04:28.680 --> 0:04:30.040 No, it's not Prescott. It's Prescott. 0:04:31.040 --> 0:04:33.960 You're honorary arizonas I am. 0:04:34.000 --> 0:04:37.359 Actually, it's kind of crazy. So when you were the 0:04:37.400 --> 0:04:40.680 youngest of three, yes, so you're the baby. 0:04:40.760 --> 0:04:43.840 What were you like? What was little Savannah. 0:04:43.400 --> 0:04:46.640 Like you know, I think in some ways probably very 0:04:46.640 --> 0:04:50.880 similar to how I am now. I was sensitive, really sensitive. 0:04:51.400 --> 0:04:54.680 I was a pleaser, you know. I think I was 0:04:55.279 --> 0:05:00.120 mostly a pretty good girl, not too too rebellious. I 0:05:00.160 --> 0:05:04.120 wasn't very athletic, that remains true. I'm super clumsy, I 0:05:04.200 --> 0:05:06.240 was chubby, I had curly hair. 0:05:06.560 --> 0:05:07.279 You know, I was. 0:05:07.440 --> 0:05:10.359 I would very often be the last person picked on 0:05:10.400 --> 0:05:11.800 those like the sports teams. 0:05:11.800 --> 0:05:13.120 It's not because people didn't like me. 0:05:13.160 --> 0:05:15.520 I just wasn't good at sports, so I would be 0:05:15.560 --> 0:05:17.719 there like you know, or I was like the slowest. 0:05:18.000 --> 0:05:19.400 Sometimes I feel like that's. 0:05:19.240 --> 0:05:23.000 Why I kind of had to develop a personality, because 0:05:23.720 --> 0:05:25.520 because I wasn't going to be making it on my 0:05:25.520 --> 0:05:27.599 looks and athleticism, let's just put it that way. 0:05:27.680 --> 0:05:28.320 Well, it's funny. 0:05:28.400 --> 0:05:31.359 I was always picked last for dodgeball I and it 0:05:31.440 --> 0:05:35.440 was because I was bigger than everybody, so I was 0:05:35.480 --> 0:05:37.000 an easier tarketed. 0:05:38.240 --> 0:05:38.440 You know. 0:05:38.480 --> 0:05:40.600 I don't know if they still do that, but I 0:05:40.640 --> 0:05:43.800 can't stand that practice of everyone lines up and they 0:05:43.800 --> 0:05:47.680 have two team captains. It's excruciating, Like we pick so so, 0:05:47.720 --> 0:05:50.120 and even your best friend, we'll pick someone else because 0:05:50.120 --> 0:05:51.680 you know they want to win, and you don't blame them, 0:05:51.720 --> 0:05:54.440 you know, you're like, but it's just so painful. 0:05:54.560 --> 0:05:56.400 And we've been doing it ever since then. 0:05:56.560 --> 0:05:56.880 I know. 0:05:57.080 --> 0:05:58.440 But I had a good childhood. I mean I was 0:05:58.480 --> 0:06:00.840 like a pretty happy kid. I would say, but yeah, 0:06:00.960 --> 0:06:03.120 look maybe a little awkward inside. 0:06:03.080 --> 0:06:05.560 Think, I mean, we're all a little awkward inside, but true. 0:06:05.960 --> 0:06:08.520 So what dreams did you have for yourself as a 0:06:08.560 --> 0:06:09.279 little girl. 0:06:09.440 --> 0:06:12.880 No, I didn't have really big career dreams, I don't think, 0:06:13.200 --> 0:06:16.520 but I did. I have always had something of a 0:06:16.600 --> 0:06:19.960 vision of myself. I knew i'd be standing up somewhere, 0:06:20.040 --> 0:06:22.599 pointing to things and explaining things. So for a while 0:06:22.640 --> 0:06:24.680 I was like, maybe I'll be a teacher, you know. 0:06:25.040 --> 0:06:28.560 And I always kind of had that I will call 0:06:28.600 --> 0:06:31.240 it a vision like that's I could see myself standing 0:06:31.320 --> 0:06:34.320 up and being an explainer and a communicator, even though 0:06:34.320 --> 0:06:36.839 I didn't have words for it then. So first I 0:06:36.880 --> 0:06:39.480 thought teacher, Then I thought you know. Then I went 0:06:39.520 --> 0:06:42.760 to school and I started getting into journalism and all that. 0:06:42.720 --> 0:06:44.240 And so it kind of jelled with that. 0:06:44.720 --> 0:06:46.479 And later when I went to law school, I was like, 0:06:46.560 --> 0:06:49.000 maybe ILL meant to stand up in court make an argument. 0:06:49.040 --> 0:06:51.119 So it all kind of it's all of a piece, 0:06:51.279 --> 0:06:53.479 you know, kind of what I ended up doing matched 0:06:53.560 --> 0:06:53.919 up with that. 0:06:54.279 --> 0:06:56.640 I mean, this is interesting because you were clearly not 0:06:57.320 --> 0:07:00.760 a slacker as a little kid. And I read in 0:07:01.360 --> 0:07:06.440 your Georgetown Law commencement speech, which in and of itself 0:07:06.760 --> 0:07:12.560 is a beautiful thing to have in your roster. You 0:07:12.600 --> 0:07:16.240 said something that I loved so much. You said, slackers 0:07:17.200 --> 0:07:18.320 can turn it around. 0:07:18.840 --> 0:07:22.560 Yes, I am living proof of that. I think as 0:07:22.600 --> 0:07:25.200 a little girl, I was a pretty good student. I was, 0:07:25.400 --> 0:07:26.600 you know, like I said, I think I was a 0:07:26.600 --> 0:07:27.360 pretty good girl. 0:07:27.760 --> 0:07:28.640 When I got into. 0:07:28.600 --> 0:07:32.880 High school, I just was really checked out. You know, 0:07:33.440 --> 0:07:37.000 I just wasn't very interested in school. I went to 0:07:37.040 --> 0:07:40.560 a very big public high school. It was easy to 0:07:40.640 --> 0:07:44.440 blend in, and I cut class a lot, Like, I 0:07:44.520 --> 0:07:49.320 missed whole swaths of classes. I'd missed a test, So 0:07:49.400 --> 0:07:52.680 I had very average grades, Like I mean, I barely 0:07:52.720 --> 0:07:53.400 squeaked by. 0:07:53.760 --> 0:07:55.520 Was it just not important to you or did you 0:07:55.600 --> 0:07:57.560 just were like, what's this going to do for me? 0:07:58.280 --> 0:08:00.880 I think I just was like teenager who was more 0:08:00.880 --> 0:08:04.080 interested in hanging out with my friends and smoking cigarettes. 0:08:04.160 --> 0:08:07.320 And you know, I think in my family it was 0:08:07.480 --> 0:08:09.760 my family it was a difficult time in my family. 0:08:09.800 --> 0:08:10.720 They were distracted. 0:08:10.760 --> 0:08:13.160 They there were a lot of hardships that the family 0:08:13.240 --> 0:08:15.880 was going through. My grandparents had moved in with us. 0:08:15.920 --> 0:08:18.760 My grandfather passed away. My father had a heart attack. 0:08:18.800 --> 0:08:21.040 He ended up he passed away when I was sixteen, 0:08:21.040 --> 0:08:23.800 actually junior in high school. They were very of course 0:08:23.960 --> 0:08:26.920 I had wonderful parents, and they loved us and cared 0:08:26.960 --> 0:08:29.520 for us. But they weren't the kind of parents who 0:08:29.520 --> 0:08:32.800 were like, hey, the SATs in May are we studying. 0:08:33.040 --> 0:08:34.559 I mean, I don't. 0:08:34.400 --> 0:08:36.720 Even think my parents knew the SAT was coming up. 0:08:36.760 --> 0:08:38.720 I mean, I actually think I forgot. That's why I 0:08:38.760 --> 0:08:41.360 did so terribly on it. They just it's not that 0:08:41.440 --> 0:08:45.240 they didn't care. Of course, they cared, And actually I 0:08:45.280 --> 0:08:48.199 always felt that they really believed in me and felt 0:08:48.800 --> 0:08:51.800 that I had a lot of talent and intelligence. 0:08:51.840 --> 0:08:53.840 And I think they felt that way about all of us. 0:08:54.080 --> 0:08:55.200 But it was a different era. 0:08:55.600 --> 0:08:58.240 It was a different era. They were not hovering parents. 0:08:58.280 --> 0:09:01.520 So if I wasn't going to keep up with my responsibilities, 0:09:02.000 --> 0:09:06.040 they just were too overwhelmed by real issues in life 0:09:06.120 --> 0:09:07.480 to try to like crack. 0:09:07.320 --> 0:09:07.840 Down on that. 0:09:07.920 --> 0:09:10.000 I mean, I'd get grounded or they say, why do 0:09:10.040 --> 0:09:12.520 you get a d in geometry? But it just you know, 0:09:12.760 --> 0:09:15.559 that's how it was, so I always laugh about it. Yes, 0:09:15.640 --> 0:09:18.600 I was a pretty average to terrible student in high school. 0:09:18.640 --> 0:09:21.720 I graduated, I went to college in my hometown. You know. 0:09:21.920 --> 0:09:24.960 It wasn't until midway through college that things started to 0:09:24.960 --> 0:09:27.440 click for me and I started getting interested and I 0:09:27.480 --> 0:09:30.160 found journalism and I found writing, and I loved all that. 0:09:30.640 --> 0:09:32.199 And I say I was a slacker, but I always 0:09:32.240 --> 0:09:33.960 had a job at a job since I was fourteen 0:09:34.040 --> 0:09:36.920 years old, So I wasn't like sitting around watching the 0:09:36.960 --> 0:09:38.120 soapseding bond bonds. 0:09:38.160 --> 0:09:40.720 I worked really hard. I just wasn't much of a scholar. 0:09:41.000 --> 0:09:43.640 But in a way, I mean it laid the groundwork. 0:09:43.720 --> 0:09:47.240 It's like you've been, I mean, in the healthiest way, 0:09:47.280 --> 0:09:51.120 ambitious and focused and driven since then, because you had 0:09:51.120 --> 0:09:53.760 to learn that at such an early age. But you 0:09:53.880 --> 0:09:57.480 also had to deal with grief at such an early age. Yeah, 0:09:57.559 --> 0:10:01.160 your father died suddenly. Yeah, and you were sixteen. 0:10:02.120 --> 0:10:04.720 Yes, he had a heart attack. So when I was thirteen, 0:10:04.800 --> 0:10:06.640 he had a heart attack. I think I was a 0:10:06.679 --> 0:10:09.840 freshman in high school, and I don't think the kids. 0:10:09.840 --> 0:10:13.320 I don't think we understood how serious that was. And 0:10:13.360 --> 0:10:16.400 then three years later he had another heart attack and 0:10:16.400 --> 0:10:19.360 that one was fatal, and he I mean, it was 0:10:19.400 --> 0:10:20.280 so unexpected. 0:10:20.720 --> 0:10:24.640 How does that kind of loss, How does a loss 0:10:24.640 --> 0:10:29.640 of that magnitude change you in the years that followed. 0:10:30.000 --> 0:10:32.720 I think it changes everything, you know. I always think 0:10:32.760 --> 0:10:35.360 of it as like, you know, on our calendars we 0:10:35.400 --> 0:10:38.400 have like BC and AD, there's like a before and after. 0:10:38.559 --> 0:10:41.160 It's just like this stark dividing line. You know. It's 0:10:41.200 --> 0:10:44.760 like there's before my dad died and there's after. And 0:10:45.880 --> 0:10:46.800 it's profound. 0:10:47.559 --> 0:10:47.880 It takes. 0:10:47.960 --> 0:10:51.240 I mean, grief is a lifelong process. I really believe that. 0:10:51.400 --> 0:10:55.120 You know, there's a cute grief. There's different moments of grief. 0:10:55.160 --> 0:10:57.920 But I remember thinking, even then, when I was a 0:10:58.040 --> 0:11:00.680 late teenager, I always thought, I have a cup of 0:11:00.720 --> 0:11:03.920 grief now, like it's like a cup of water, and 0:11:04.360 --> 0:11:06.360 I'm going to spend the rest of my life emptying 0:11:06.400 --> 0:11:10.120 this cup. And sometimes it's coming out in buckets, and 0:11:10.200 --> 0:11:12.760 sometimes it's a little sprinkle, and sometimes I can just 0:11:12.800 --> 0:11:15.200 hold it and nothing comes out. But every last drop 0:11:15.240 --> 0:11:17.600 of this cup will not be empty until I leave 0:11:17.640 --> 0:11:18.120 this world. 0:11:18.160 --> 0:11:20.360 I will always carry this grief. 0:11:20.640 --> 0:11:23.320 It doesn't mean that I'm not happy, that I'm not joyous, 0:11:23.440 --> 0:11:26.000 that I don't I mean, of course, but it's part 0:11:26.040 --> 0:11:27.920 of me. This cup of grief is part of me, 0:11:28.000 --> 0:11:31.560 and I think it made me more serious internally. 0:11:32.040 --> 0:11:35.200 When you lose a parent like that, so suddenly. 0:11:34.840 --> 0:11:38.840 It's so shocking. At sixteen, you just have some knowledge, 0:11:38.960 --> 0:11:43.440 You just know something about the world that hopefully others 0:11:43.559 --> 0:11:44.240 don't have to know. 0:11:45.000 --> 0:11:49.040 Did it change your view of parenting, or taking risks 0:11:49.120 --> 0:11:49.800 or health. 0:11:50.000 --> 0:11:51.480 It's hard to know. 0:11:50.960 --> 0:11:54.800 I know it changed me and probably changed the whole 0:11:54.840 --> 0:11:58.200 trajectory of my life. I mean, I often think that 0:11:58.480 --> 0:12:02.199 I would have been totally different if my father had lived. 0:12:02.360 --> 0:12:05.560 I just don't know that I would have chosen this career. 0:12:05.800 --> 0:12:08.959 I don't know if I would have left home, I 0:12:09.200 --> 0:12:10.880 might have stayed in my hometown. I don't know what 0:12:10.920 --> 0:12:14.480 I would have done. Yeah, but I know fundamentally it 0:12:14.559 --> 0:12:18.199 changed everything, and some things it changed for the better, 0:12:18.320 --> 0:12:22.840 in the sense of I know that my heart is 0:12:22.880 --> 0:12:26.720 more tender because of it, you know, I know, I 0:12:26.760 --> 0:12:29.720 think you know. I wasn't afraid to talk to people 0:12:29.800 --> 0:12:32.480 who are sad or in grief because I know what 0:12:32.559 --> 0:12:35.760 it's like to be in grief, and I know that 0:12:36.080 --> 0:12:38.800 pretty much there's nothing you can say that's going to 0:12:38.840 --> 0:12:42.000 make them feel any worse. And that actually not everyone, 0:12:42.040 --> 0:12:45.160 but when you lose someone, often the person wants to 0:12:45.200 --> 0:12:47.120 talk about that. Like if somebody comes up to me 0:12:47.160 --> 0:12:49.160 and has something to tell me about my dad, which 0:12:49.200 --> 0:12:51.960 occasionally will happen on the process, someone will say, you know, 0:12:52.720 --> 0:12:55.400 my uncle was cousins or my uncle was you know, 0:12:55.559 --> 0:12:57.520 went to high school with your father and he always 0:12:57.559 --> 0:13:00.679 said and I'm like, I can't hear enough of it. 0:13:06.920 --> 0:13:10.440 You've been open about infertility struggles and your IVF journey 0:13:10.480 --> 0:13:13.800 with your husband. Yeah, I went through IVF seven times, 0:13:13.800 --> 0:13:15.480 so I have complete empathy for you. 0:13:16.160 --> 0:13:18.480 When did you first start wanting to have children? 0:13:19.080 --> 0:13:21.880 Gosh, I think I always wanted to be a mom 0:13:22.000 --> 0:13:24.160 and always hoped that I would be a mom, and 0:13:24.280 --> 0:13:26.280 always kind of assumed that I would be a mom, 0:13:26.400 --> 0:13:29.000 would get married and have kids, and I really wanted 0:13:29.000 --> 0:13:31.240 to and in fact, that may have been the thing 0:13:31.280 --> 0:13:33.880 I wanted more than anything else, more than any career. 0:13:34.000 --> 0:13:36.360 I wanted to just go live happily a rafter and 0:13:36.400 --> 0:13:37.960 be married and have kids. 0:13:38.000 --> 0:13:40.640 Like I think that's really was my biggest goal in life. 0:13:41.040 --> 0:13:43.920 And as luck would have it, I just was not 0:13:44.080 --> 0:13:48.280 particularly successful in my personal life, like pretty much through 0:13:48.320 --> 0:13:51.040 my twenties and thirties, you know, I mean, you know, 0:13:51.200 --> 0:13:53.280 i'd like have a boyfriend for a couple of years 0:13:53.480 --> 0:13:54.760 or did not really work out. 0:13:54.840 --> 0:13:55.600 I just couldn't, you know. 0:13:55.640 --> 0:13:58.160 And then all my friends were getting married and oh 0:13:58.200 --> 0:14:00.199 my gosh, then they started having babies, and I was 0:14:00.600 --> 0:14:04.079 heartbroken about that. I mean, that was like, to me, 0:14:04.600 --> 0:14:08.560 just my great trial and great tragedy. I so wanted 0:14:08.600 --> 0:14:10.840 to be them. I so wanted to be married and 0:14:10.880 --> 0:14:14.760 have kids, and I just couldn't find somebody who wanted 0:14:14.800 --> 0:14:16.280 to marry me basically. 0:14:17.120 --> 0:14:19.480 And also, though you were working, I mean you were. 0:14:19.960 --> 0:14:21.760 I was. I was, and it is true. But I 0:14:21.800 --> 0:14:24.440 think sometimes people are like, oh, you're probably too busy, 0:14:24.520 --> 0:14:26.320 you know. You're like, I'm like, oh no, you have 0:14:26.320 --> 0:14:28.400 to understand this about me. I'm not proud of this. 0:14:28.560 --> 0:14:31.560 But I would have gotten off the work crazy train 0:14:31.760 --> 0:14:34.880 in a heartbeat if I could have just fallen in 0:14:34.960 --> 0:14:35.960 love and had kids. 0:14:36.160 --> 0:14:36.400 You know. 0:14:36.560 --> 0:14:39.360 I definitely wanted the fairy tale, so it was always 0:14:39.720 --> 0:14:42.800 with me. Then in my thirties, I briefly I met someone, 0:14:43.160 --> 0:14:46.040 we got married. It was short lived and it was just, 0:14:46.200 --> 0:14:49.600 you know, just didn't work out. It was a sad situation. 0:14:49.720 --> 0:14:52.000 And then I was really really crushed and sure that 0:14:52.080 --> 0:14:54.040 I would never that it would never. 0:14:53.880 --> 0:14:54.480 Happen for me. 0:14:54.880 --> 0:14:59.000 So you know, I'm a person of faith, and I 0:14:59.040 --> 0:15:03.360 will never stop more at my incredible blessing that somehow 0:15:03.920 --> 0:15:07.200 I could be divorced at thirty five or thirty six, 0:15:07.840 --> 0:15:10.000 that I could not get married for another five or 0:15:10.040 --> 0:15:13.320 six years after that, and somehow, by the grace of God, 0:15:13.560 --> 0:15:15.560 get to have my little girl, and then also by 0:15:15.600 --> 0:15:17.840 the grace of God and IVF, get to have my 0:15:17.880 --> 0:15:18.440 little boy. 0:15:18.720 --> 0:15:20.720 And I'll never be over that miracle. 0:15:21.320 --> 0:15:26.000 I mean, I was divorced at thirty eight, and by 0:15:26.040 --> 0:15:28.640 the time I started having wanting to have kids, it 0:15:28.760 --> 0:15:31.480 was just like, oh, this is not going to be 0:15:31.480 --> 0:15:34.120 easy for you. And had it not been for IVF, 0:15:34.280 --> 0:15:37.280 you know, I would not have any babies. I wouldn't 0:15:37.280 --> 0:15:39.360 have any I wouldn't have my girls. And I've been 0:15:39.400 --> 0:15:45.080 thinking about sort of that ownership of not just fertility 0:15:45.160 --> 0:15:50.600 but sexuality and reclaiming and understanding my value and worth, 0:15:50.640 --> 0:15:55.120 and it's so mind blowing to me the degree of 0:15:55.360 --> 0:15:59.960 the treatment that was acceptable back then I've recently been 0:16:00.120 --> 0:16:03.120 really looking back at my life, and in both of 0:16:03.240 --> 0:16:08.640 our fields in news entertainment, were conditions for women, The 0:16:08.640 --> 0:16:12.680 way women were viewed, the way we were all sexualized, 0:16:12.840 --> 0:16:14.680 you know, the way we're spoken, to the way we're 0:16:14.760 --> 0:16:18.280 dealt with. And I'm interested in your perspective on that, 0:16:18.320 --> 0:16:23.200 because looking back, especially just as a young reporter, is 0:16:23.240 --> 0:16:26.120 there a moment that stands out for you that was 0:16:26.160 --> 0:16:29.760 indicative of that struggle? 0:16:30.600 --> 0:16:34.320 You know? It's interesting because I look at the women 0:16:34.360 --> 0:16:37.840 who came before me, like Andrew Mitchell or Leslie Stahl 0:16:38.000 --> 0:16:41.480 or Diane Sawyer, and I guess I keep it all 0:16:41.520 --> 0:16:44.840 on perspective when I think about what they carried on 0:16:44.920 --> 0:16:48.680 their shoulders and the way they cleared a path, And 0:16:48.760 --> 0:16:52.240 sometimes I feel like they cleared that path and then 0:16:52.280 --> 0:16:53.600 I sailed right through it. 0:16:53.800 --> 0:16:54.040 You know. 0:16:54.200 --> 0:16:57.400 Barbara Walters was on the Today Show that she was 0:16:57.400 --> 0:17:00.920 called a Today girl. She thought to have a seat 0:17:00.960 --> 0:17:03.680 at the table, had there was when she first started 0:17:03.880 --> 0:17:05.760 the co anchor, she wasn't allowed to even ask a 0:17:05.840 --> 0:17:09.160 question until the co anchor had asked three her male 0:17:09.200 --> 0:17:12.359 co anchor, and I just feel like I've gotten to 0:17:12.400 --> 0:17:16.359 stand on her shoulders and Andrea's shoulders. I mean, Andrew 0:17:16.400 --> 0:17:18.240 was like one of the leslie They were the only 0:17:18.280 --> 0:17:20.360 women at the White House, you know, and I think 0:17:20.400 --> 0:17:24.120 all women, I think a lot of people, but women 0:17:24.160 --> 0:17:27.240 in particularly you feel and you just know that you 0:17:27.359 --> 0:17:29.840 better be on your game. You know, you can't be 0:17:30.000 --> 0:17:34.480 shallow and flighty. You have to be substantive. So I knew, 0:17:34.560 --> 0:17:36.160 especially when I came to the White House to start 0:17:36.200 --> 0:17:39.159 covering the White House, that was to this day the 0:17:39.160 --> 0:17:43.000 most challenging assignment I've ever had. Why because it's so 0:17:44.080 --> 0:17:47.720 it's just multi layered. The stakes are high, the spotlight 0:17:48.000 --> 0:17:51.560 is bright. It yes, it's all of that. So you're like, 0:17:51.800 --> 0:17:53.600 if you're at the White House or the network, like 0:17:53.640 --> 0:17:57.480 you're at the top of what your network is expecting 0:17:57.480 --> 0:18:01.639 from you. People are watching, they're scrutinizing. But also more importantly, 0:18:02.359 --> 0:18:04.720 the issues that you're covering at the White House are 0:18:04.760 --> 0:18:07.280 incredibly complex, and if you want to be any good 0:18:07.280 --> 0:18:09.919 at it, you have to be pretty deep on policy. 0:18:10.320 --> 0:18:10.560 You know. 0:18:10.960 --> 0:18:12.879 I know that we cover a lot of politics, and 0:18:12.880 --> 0:18:14.879 there's a lot of horse race and who's up and 0:18:14.920 --> 0:18:17.880 who's down, But when you actually cover the White House 0:18:17.920 --> 0:18:20.239 every day, you have to be an expert on our 0:18:20.320 --> 0:18:23.959 nuclear policy, our education policy. 0:18:24.400 --> 0:18:26.879 Tax policy. I mean, you got to know this stuff. 0:18:26.920 --> 0:18:28.679 And if you want to be a good reporter and 0:18:28.720 --> 0:18:31.159 you want to challenge some of those in power, you 0:18:31.240 --> 0:18:34.480 got to be real deep on it. And I felt 0:18:34.600 --> 0:18:38.280 so much anxiety. Well, I felt I could never know enough. 0:18:38.320 --> 0:18:40.560 Did you read constantly and study constantly? 0:18:41.200 --> 0:18:41.440 Yes? 0:18:41.520 --> 0:18:44.080 I tried to, but then sometimes I couldn't because I 0:18:44.119 --> 0:18:46.200 was tired or I just wanted to go to bed, 0:18:46.280 --> 0:18:49.479 and so then I would feel afraid, you know. And 0:18:49.760 --> 0:18:52.400 I mean Andrea to this day, I don't know, maybe 0:18:52.400 --> 0:18:54.320 not to this day, but when I worked with her 0:18:54.400 --> 0:18:56.679 very closely, it's like Andrew would be like reading the 0:18:56.680 --> 0:18:59.040 newspaper at two o'clock in the morning. I mean, she's 0:18:59.119 --> 0:19:03.720 so incredible and so intense and so focused. And I 0:19:03.800 --> 0:19:06.360 know that that there's an aspect of that that has 0:19:06.440 --> 0:19:10.800 to do with my femaleness, knowing that I can't I 0:19:10.840 --> 0:19:11.720 have to be prepared. 0:19:11.800 --> 0:19:13.600 I got to be on my game. I can't be 0:19:13.640 --> 0:19:14.280 caught napping. 0:19:14.560 --> 0:19:19.560 But also part of the armor is the knowledge and 0:19:19.600 --> 0:19:23.040 self advocating. How did you know and when did you 0:19:23.160 --> 0:19:26.560