Speaker 1: What do you do when life doesn't go according to
Speaker 1: plan that moment you lose a job, or a loved one,
Speaker 1: or even a piece of yourself. I'm Brookshields and this
Speaker 1: is now What, a podcast about pivotal moments as told
Speaker 1: by people who lived them. Each week, I sit down
Speaker 1: with a guest to talk about the times they were
Speaker 1: knocked off course and what they did to move forward.
Speaker 1: Some stories are funny, others are gut wrenching, but all
Speaker 1: are unapologetically human and remind us that every success and
Speaker 1: every setback is accompanied by a choice, and that choice
Speaker 1: answers one question, now what.
Speaker 2: I had wonderful parents, and they loved us and cared
Speaker 2: for us. But they weren't the kind of parents who
Speaker 2: were like, hey, the SATs in May, are we studying.
Speaker 3: Parents at that?
Speaker 4: I mean no, they knew that when the essayt was
Speaker 4: and I mean didn't even know to drive me to it.
Speaker 3: You know it was. I did it all on my own,
Speaker 3: and you did too, Yeah I did.
Speaker 4: I mean I did it all in my I mean
Speaker 4: my mom didn't even know deadlines to apply for college.
Speaker 3: They weren't asking me about my essay. They weren't, you know.
Speaker 2: No, none of it. That's what makes me laugh. Like
Speaker 2: I asked my mom recently, I'm like, hey, Mom, you
Speaker 2: know I got like, you know, pretty average on my
Speaker 2: essayt you know, like, did you ever were you ever
Speaker 2: thinking like maybe we should set up in one of
Speaker 2: these prep courses or whatever, or did I And she said, no.
Speaker 5: Honey, was your test on my test?
Speaker 3: Oh my god.
Speaker 5: I love that.
Speaker 2: I'm like, boom, that's Nancy Guthrie in a nutshell.
Speaker 4: My guest today is Savannah gut Thrie. Savannah is an
Speaker 4: award winning journalist, a TV personality, an author, a former attorney,
Speaker 4: a loving wife and mother, and so much more. She's
Speaker 4: been with NBC for more than a decade, during what
Speaker 4: she's moderated debates, covered some of the biggest news stories
Speaker 4: of the decade, and has interviewed world leaders, celebrities, and
Speaker 4: newsmakers alike. Savannah is razor sharp, empathetic, and incredibly down
Speaker 4: to earth. We've met a number of times over the years,
Speaker 4: and she's always a breath of fresh air. I hope
Speaker 4: you enjoyed this interview as much as I do. Here
Speaker 4: is Savannah Guthrie.
Speaker 3: I know how busy you are.
Speaker 4: I cannot even imagine, and next time when we get
Speaker 4: a chance to talk, I want to do it in person.
Speaker 5: Whether we're podcasting or not. I want to see you.
Speaker 4: Absolutely, and I would like to have let's see what's
Speaker 4: your cocktail of choice these days, because mine's still pretty
Speaker 4: much tequila, but oh.
Speaker 2: My god, me too, vodka soda with like squeezed half
Speaker 2: a lime and lots of ice.
Speaker 5: I call it a savinita.
Speaker 4: Savanita. I like that, Hey, you're onto something, Thank you
Speaker 4: so much. And I know that you're schedule is so
Speaker 4: different than most people's, Like I don't think people I'm
Speaker 4: friends with people who are also like in your industry
Speaker 4: and they go to bed.
Speaker 5: At eight Loserville.
Speaker 3: Well no, but.
Speaker 4: Also it's actually kind of the times that I've done it,
Speaker 4: there's something really kind of quiet and beautiful about the
Speaker 4: time on both ends. Yeah, you were quoted once as
Speaker 4: saying your perfect dinner time is four.
Speaker 2: Well, you know, there's all these articles now that say
Speaker 2: that in New York City, like six is the new
Speaker 2: eight or five is the new seven, And I'm like, no,
Speaker 2: I don't want anyone to find out this wonderful secret
Speaker 2: that eating at five or four is really awesome.
Speaker 4: I always love hearing people talk about their early years.
Speaker 4: My early years were all documented, so it's never a
Speaker 4: surprise to anybody. What were you like as a little girl.
Speaker 2: You were from Tucson, you said, yeah, Tucson, Arizona.
Speaker 4: My godmother was from Tucson. So I spent so many summers.
Speaker 4: You did Tucson, yep. And then we spent time in Prescott,
Speaker 4: and we would like when we were being sort of fancy,
Speaker 4: we'd go to Phoenix and we would go to the
Speaker 4: Biltmore Wow, and I'd get to swim in that pool.
Speaker 3: It was sun Tea.
Speaker 4: Was the first time I ever knew about sun Tea
Speaker 4: was was in Tucson.
Speaker 2: How have we never talked about this? I mean, this
Speaker 2: is it's so unique. Most people have barely even heard
Speaker 2: of Tucson, and here you were there in the summer,
Speaker 2: so you know what it's like to be a kid
Speaker 2: outside and how hot it is. By the way, you
Speaker 2: also said Prescott, right, it's not Prescott's.
Speaker 3: No, it's not Prescott. It's Prescott.
Speaker 2: You're honorary arizonas I am.
Speaker 4: Actually, it's kind of crazy. So when you were the
Speaker 4: youngest of three, yes, so you're the baby.
Speaker 3: What were you like? What was little Savannah.
Speaker 2: Like you know, I think in some ways probably very
Speaker 2: similar to how I am now. I was sensitive, really sensitive.
Speaker 2: I was a pleaser, you know. I think I was
Speaker 2: mostly a pretty good girl, not too too rebellious. I
Speaker 2: wasn't very athletic, that remains true. I'm super clumsy, I
Speaker 2: was chubby, I had curly hair.
Speaker 5: You know, I was.
Speaker 2: I would very often be the last person picked on
Speaker 2: those like the sports teams.
Speaker 5: It's not because people didn't like me.
Speaker 2: I just wasn't good at sports, so I would be
Speaker 2: there like you know, or I was like the slowest.
Speaker 5: Sometimes I feel like that's.
Speaker 2: Why I kind of had to develop a personality, because
Speaker 2: because I wasn't going to be making it on my
Speaker 2: looks and athleticism, let's just put it that way.
Speaker 3: Well, it's funny.
Speaker 4: I was always picked last for dodgeball I and it
Speaker 4: was because I was bigger than everybody, so I was
Speaker 4: an easier tarketed.
Speaker 5: You know.
Speaker 2: I don't know if they still do that, but I
Speaker 2: can't stand that practice of everyone lines up and they
Speaker 2: have two team captains. It's excruciating, Like we pick so so,
Speaker 2: and even your best friend, we'll pick someone else because
Speaker 2: you know they want to win, and you don't blame them,
Speaker 2: you know, you're like, but it's just so painful.
Speaker 3: And we've been doing it ever since then.
Speaker 5: I know.
Speaker 2: But I had a good childhood. I mean I was
Speaker 2: like a pretty happy kid. I would say, but yeah,
Speaker 2: look maybe a little awkward inside.
Speaker 4: Think, I mean, we're all a little awkward inside, but true.
Speaker 4: So what dreams did you have for yourself as a
Speaker 4: little girl.
Speaker 2: No, I didn't have really big career dreams, I don't think,
Speaker 2: but I did. I have always had something of a
Speaker 2: vision of myself. I knew i'd be standing up somewhere,
Speaker 2: pointing to things and explaining things. So for a while
Speaker 2: I was like, maybe I'll be a teacher, you know.
Speaker 2: And I always kind of had that I will call
Speaker 2: it a vision like that's I could see myself standing
Speaker 2: up and being an explainer and a communicator, even though
Speaker 2: I didn't have words for it then. So first I
Speaker 2: thought teacher, Then I thought you know. Then I went
Speaker 2: to school and I started getting into journalism and all that.
Speaker 5: And so it kind of jelled with that.
Speaker 2: And later when I went to law school, I was like,
Speaker 2: maybe ILL meant to stand up in court make an argument.
Speaker 2: So it all kind of it's all of a piece,
Speaker 2: you know, kind of what I ended up doing matched
Speaker 2: up with that.
Speaker 4: I mean, this is interesting because you were clearly not
Speaker 4: a slacker as a little kid. And I read in
Speaker 4: your Georgetown Law commencement speech, which in and of itself
Speaker 4: is a beautiful thing to have in your roster. You
Speaker 4: said something that I loved so much. You said, slackers
Speaker 4: can turn it around.
Speaker 2: Yes, I am living proof of that. I think as
Speaker 2: a little girl, I was a pretty good student. I was,
Speaker 2: you know, like I said, I think I was a
Speaker 2: pretty good girl.
Speaker 5: When I got into.
Speaker 2: High school, I just was really checked out. You know,
Speaker 2: I just wasn't very interested in school. I went to
Speaker 2: a very big public high school. It was easy to
Speaker 2: blend in, and I cut class a lot, Like, I
Speaker 2: missed whole swaths of classes. I'd missed a test, So
Speaker 2: I had very average grades, Like I mean, I barely
Speaker 2: squeaked by.
Speaker 4: Was it just not important to you or did you
Speaker 4: just were like, what's this going to do for me?
Speaker 2: I think I just was like teenager who was more
Speaker 2: interested in hanging out with my friends and smoking cigarettes.
Speaker 2: And you know, I think in my family it was
Speaker 2: my family it was a difficult time in my family.
Speaker 5: They were distracted.
Speaker 2: They there were a lot of hardships that the family
Speaker 2: was going through. My grandparents had moved in with us.
Speaker 2: My grandfather passed away. My father had a heart attack.
Speaker 2: He ended up he passed away when I was sixteen,
Speaker 2: actually junior in high school. They were very of course
Speaker 2: I had wonderful parents, and they loved us and cared
Speaker 2: for us. But they weren't the kind of parents who
Speaker 2: were like, hey, the SATs in May are we studying.
Speaker 5: I mean, I don't.
Speaker 2: Even think my parents knew the SAT was coming up.
Speaker 2: I mean, I actually think I forgot. That's why I
Speaker 2: did so terribly on it. They just it's not that
Speaker 2: they didn't care. Of course, they cared, And actually I
Speaker 2: always felt that they really believed in me and felt
Speaker 2: that I had a lot of talent and intelligence.
Speaker 5: And I think they felt that way about all of us.
Speaker 3: But it was a different era.
Speaker 5: It was a different era. They were not hovering parents.
Speaker 2: So if I wasn't going to keep up with my responsibilities,
Speaker 2: they just were too overwhelmed by real issues in life
Speaker 2: to try to like crack.
Speaker 5: Down on that.
Speaker 2: I mean, I'd get grounded or they say, why do
Speaker 2: you get a d in geometry? But it just you know,
Speaker 2: that's how it was, so I always laugh about it. Yes,
Speaker 2: I was a pretty average to terrible student in high school.
Speaker 2: I graduated, I went to college in my hometown. You know.
Speaker 2: It wasn't until midway through college that things started to
Speaker 2: click for me and I started getting interested and I
Speaker 2: found journalism and I found writing, and I loved all that.
Speaker 2: And I say I was a slacker, but I always
Speaker 2: had a job at a job since I was fourteen
Speaker 2: years old, So I wasn't like sitting around watching the
Speaker 2: soapseding bond bonds.
Speaker 5: I worked really hard. I just wasn't much of a scholar.
Speaker 4: But in a way, I mean it laid the groundwork.
Speaker 4: It's like you've been, I mean, in the healthiest way,
Speaker 4: ambitious and focused and driven since then, because you had
Speaker 4: to learn that at such an early age. But you
Speaker 4: also had to deal with grief at such an early age. Yeah,
Speaker 4: your father died suddenly. Yeah, and you were sixteen.
Speaker 2: Yes, he had a heart attack. So when I was thirteen,
Speaker 2: he had a heart attack. I think I was a
Speaker 2: freshman in high school, and I don't think the kids.
Speaker 2: I don't think we understood how serious that was. And
Speaker 2: then three years later he had another heart attack and
Speaker 2: that one was fatal, and he I mean, it was
Speaker 2: so unexpected.
Speaker 4: How does that kind of loss, How does a loss
Speaker 4: of that magnitude change you in the years that followed.
Speaker 2: I think it changes everything, you know. I always think
Speaker 2: of it as like, you know, on our calendars we
Speaker 2: have like BC and AD, there's like a before and after.
Speaker 2: It's just like this stark dividing line. You know. It's
Speaker 2: like there's before my dad died and there's after. And
Speaker 2: it's profound.
Speaker 5: It takes.
Speaker 2: I mean, grief is a lifelong process. I really believe that.
Speaker 2: You know, there's a cute grief. There's different moments of grief.
Speaker 2: But I remember thinking, even then, when I was a
Speaker 2: late teenager, I always thought, I have a cup of
Speaker 2: grief now, like it's like a cup of water, and
Speaker 2: I'm going to spend the rest of my life emptying
Speaker 2: this cup. And sometimes it's coming out in buckets, and
Speaker 2: sometimes it's a little sprinkle, and sometimes I can just
Speaker 2: hold it and nothing comes out. But every last drop
Speaker 2: of this cup will not be empty until I leave
Speaker 2: this world.
Speaker 5: I will always carry this grief.
Speaker 2: It doesn't mean that I'm not happy, that I'm not joyous,
Speaker 2: that I don't I mean, of course, but it's part
Speaker 2: of me. This cup of grief is part of me,
Speaker 2: and I think it made me more serious internally.
Speaker 5: When you lose a parent like that, so suddenly.
Speaker 2: It's so shocking. At sixteen, you just have some knowledge,
Speaker 2: You just know something about the world that hopefully others
Speaker 2: don't have to know.
Speaker 4: Did it change your view of parenting, or taking risks
Speaker 4: or health.
Speaker 5: It's hard to know.
Speaker 2: I know it changed me and probably changed the whole
Speaker 2: trajectory of my life. I mean, I often think that
Speaker 2: I would have been totally different if my father had lived.
Speaker 2: I just don't know that I would have chosen this career.
Speaker 2: I don't know if I would have left home, I
Speaker 2: might have stayed in my hometown. I don't know what
Speaker 2: I would have done. Yeah, but I know fundamentally it
Speaker 2: changed everything, and some things it changed for the better,
Speaker 2: in the sense of I know that my heart is
Speaker 2: more tender because of it, you know, I know, I
Speaker 2: think you know. I wasn't afraid to talk to people
Speaker 2: who are sad or in grief because I know what
Speaker 2: it's like to be in grief, and I know that
Speaker 2: pretty much there's nothing you can say that's going to
Speaker 2: make them feel any worse. And that actually not everyone,
Speaker 2: but when you lose someone, often the person wants to
Speaker 2: talk about that. Like if somebody comes up to me
Speaker 2: and has something to tell me about my dad, which
Speaker 2: occasionally will happen on the process, someone will say, you know,
Speaker 2: my uncle was cousins or my uncle was you know,
Speaker 2: went to high school with your father and he always
Speaker 2: said and I'm like, I can't hear enough of it.
Speaker 4: You've been open about infertility struggles and your IVF journey
Speaker 4: with your husband. Yeah, I went through IVF seven times,
Speaker 4: so I have complete empathy for you.
Speaker 3: When did you first start wanting to have children?
Speaker 2: Gosh, I think I always wanted to be a mom
Speaker 2: and always hoped that I would be a mom, and
Speaker 2: always kind of assumed that I would be a mom,
Speaker 2: would get married and have kids, and I really wanted
Speaker 2: to and in fact, that may have been the thing
Speaker 2: I wanted more than anything else, more than any career.
Speaker 2: I wanted to just go live happily a rafter and
Speaker 2: be married and have kids.
Speaker 5: Like I think that's really was my biggest goal in life.
Speaker 2: And as luck would have it, I just was not
Speaker 2: particularly successful in my personal life, like pretty much through
Speaker 2: my twenties and thirties, you know, I mean, you know,
Speaker 2: i'd like have a boyfriend for a couple of years
Speaker 2: or did not really work out.
Speaker 5: I just couldn't, you know.
Speaker 2: And then all my friends were getting married and oh
Speaker 2: my gosh, then they started having babies, and I was
Speaker 2: heartbroken about that. I mean, that was like, to me,
Speaker 2: just my great trial and great tragedy. I so wanted
Speaker 2: to be them. I so wanted to be married and
Speaker 2: have kids, and I just couldn't find somebody who wanted
Speaker 2: to marry me basically.
Speaker 3: And also, though you were working, I mean you were.
Speaker 2: I was. I was, and it is true. But I
Speaker 2: think sometimes people are like, oh, you're probably too busy,
Speaker 2: you know. You're like, I'm like, oh no, you have
Speaker 2: to understand this about me. I'm not proud of this.
Speaker 2: But I would have gotten off the work crazy train
Speaker 2: in a heartbeat if I could have just fallen in
Speaker 2: love and had kids.
Speaker 5: You know.
Speaker 2: I definitely wanted the fairy tale, so it was always
Speaker 2: with me. Then in my thirties, I briefly I met someone,
Speaker 2: we got married. It was short lived and it was just,
Speaker 2: you know, just didn't work out. It was a sad situation.
Speaker 2: And then I was really really crushed and sure that
Speaker 2: I would never that it would never.
Speaker 5: Happen for me.
Speaker 2: So you know, I'm a person of faith, and I
Speaker 2: will never stop more at my incredible blessing that somehow
Speaker 2: I could be divorced at thirty five or thirty six,
Speaker 2: that I could not get married for another five or
Speaker 2: six years after that, and somehow, by the grace of God,
Speaker 2: get to have my little girl, and then also by
Speaker 2: the grace of God and IVF, get to have my
Speaker 2: little boy.
Speaker 5: And I'll never be over that miracle.
Speaker 4: I mean, I was divorced at thirty eight, and by
Speaker 4: the time I started having wanting to have kids, it
Speaker 4: was just like, oh, this is not going to be
Speaker 4: easy for you. And had it not been for IVF,
Speaker 4: you know, I would not have any babies. I wouldn't
Speaker 4: have any I wouldn't have my girls. And I've been
Speaker 4: thinking about sort of that ownership of not just fertility
Speaker 4: but sexuality and reclaiming and understanding my value and worth,
Speaker 4: and it's so mind blowing to me the degree of
Speaker 4: the treatment that was acceptable back then I've recently been
Speaker 4: really looking back at my life, and in both of
Speaker 4: our fields in news entertainment, were conditions for women, The
Speaker 4: way women were viewed, the way we were all sexualized,
Speaker 4: you know, the way we're spoken, to the way we're
Speaker 4: dealt with. And I'm interested in your perspective on that,
Speaker 4: because looking back, especially just as a young reporter, is
Speaker 4: there a moment that stands out for you that was
Speaker 4: indicative of that struggle?
Speaker 2: You know? It's interesting because I look at the women
Speaker 2: who came before me, like Andrew Mitchell or Leslie Stahl
Speaker 2: or Diane Sawyer, and I guess I keep it all
Speaker 2: on perspective when I think about what they carried on
Speaker 2: their shoulders and the way they cleared a path, And
Speaker 2: sometimes I feel like they cleared that path and then
Speaker 2: I sailed right through it.
Speaker 5: You know.
Speaker 2: Barbara Walters was on the Today Show that she was
Speaker 2: called a Today girl. She thought to have a seat
Speaker 2: at the table, had there was when she first started
Speaker 2: the co anchor, she wasn't allowed to even ask a
Speaker 2: question until the co anchor had asked three her male
Speaker 2: co anchor, and I just feel like I've gotten to
Speaker 2: stand on her shoulders and Andrea's shoulders. I mean, Andrew
Speaker 2: was like one of the leslie They were the only
Speaker 2: women at the White House, you know, and I think
Speaker 2: all women, I think a lot of people, but women
Speaker 2: in particularly you feel and you just know that you
Speaker 2: better be on your game. You know, you can't be
Speaker 2: shallow and flighty. You have to be substantive. So I knew,
Speaker 2: especially when I came to the White House to start
Speaker 2: covering the White House, that was to this day the
Speaker 2: most challenging assignment I've ever had. Why because it's so
Speaker 2: it's just multi layered. The stakes are high, the spotlight
Speaker 2: is bright. It yes, it's all of that. So you're like,
Speaker 2: if you're at the White House or the network, like
Speaker 2: you're at the top of what your network is expecting
Speaker 2: from you. People are watching, they're scrutinizing. But also more importantly,
Speaker 2: the issues that you're covering at the White House are
Speaker 2: incredibly complex, and if you want to be any good
Speaker 2: at it, you have to be pretty deep on policy.
Speaker 5: You know.
Speaker 2: I know that we cover a lot of politics, and
Speaker 2: there's a lot of horse race and who's up and
Speaker 2: who's down, But when you actually cover the White House
Speaker 2: every day, you have to be an expert on our
Speaker 2: nuclear policy, our education policy.
Speaker 5: Tax policy. I mean, you got to know this stuff.
Speaker 2: And if you want to be a good reporter and
Speaker 2: you want to challenge some of those in power, you
Speaker 2: got to be real deep on it. And I felt
Speaker 2: so much anxiety. Well, I felt I could never know enough.
Speaker 3: Did you read constantly and study constantly?
Speaker 5: Yes?
Speaker 2: I tried to, but then sometimes I couldn't because I
Speaker 2: was tired or I just wanted to go to bed,
Speaker 2: and so then I would feel afraid, you know. And
Speaker 2: I mean Andrea to this day, I don't know, maybe
Speaker 2: not to this day, but when I worked with her
Speaker 2: very closely, it's like Andrew would be like reading the
Speaker 2: newspaper at two o'clock in the morning. I mean, she's
Speaker 2: so incredible and so intense and so focused. And I
Speaker 2: know that that there's an aspect of that that has
Speaker 2: to do with my femaleness, knowing that I can't I
Speaker 2: have to be prepared.
Speaker 5: I got to be on my game. I can't be
Speaker 5: caught napping.
Speaker 4: But also part of the armor is the knowledge and
Speaker 4: self advocating. How did you know and when did you
Speaker 4: start learning really how to self advocate for yourself in
Speaker 4: all of these situations.
Speaker 2: Well, you know, it's so interesting and I would never
Speaker 2: hold up my psyche as a model for any young
Speaker 2: woman to follow, But it's worked for me. And you know,
Speaker 2: I think that for most of my career and my
Speaker 2: and my legal education, all of it, what propelled me
Speaker 2: was fear. What propelled me was fear of failure.
Speaker 5: Yes.
Speaker 2: It was ambitious in a certain way, but I wasn't
Speaker 2: ambitious to win. I was ambitious not to fail. And
Speaker 2: I don't I don't wish that perspective on my little daughter,
Speaker 2: you know, I want her to come at it from a.
Speaker 5: Different How do you do that?
Speaker 3: But how do you like that?
Speaker 2: And also by the way it works, like I not,
Speaker 2: a little fear is not bad. No, it's not a
Speaker 2: lot of fear is bad. Debilitating fear is bad. But
Speaker 2: you know, in the first graduation speech I ever gave
Speaker 2: was at my alma mater, the University of Arizona, and
Speaker 2: I said to the students, fear of failure is good
Speaker 2: for you.
Speaker 5: A little fear of failure is good.
Speaker 2: And you know, like athletes will tell you this, if
Speaker 2: I go out there and I'm not a little scared
Speaker 2: to lose, then I've lost my edge. You have to
Speaker 2: have a little nervous or actors you know this. I
Speaker 2: mean you still get a little flutter when you're out
Speaker 2: there on stage or for me, that means you're still
Speaker 2: in the game, you still care.
Speaker 4: So you mentioned law school. You've been years in broadcasting
Speaker 4: and you then decided to go to law school time
Speaker 4: that does you know that?
Speaker 2: It was like one of those moments I had, you know,
Speaker 2: worked really hard to get into local news. I was
Speaker 2: doing it. I was in it about five and a
Speaker 2: half six years. I had been covering a lot of
Speaker 2: trials and legal issues. It was at that moment when
Speaker 2: court TV was really big and the OJ trial and
Speaker 2: all those and I was really like into watching that stuff.
Speaker 2: So I got very interested in the law. And it
Speaker 2: kind of goes back to our fear of failure discussion,
Speaker 2: because it was really two things. One, I was interested
Speaker 2: in the law, and secondly, I knew it was getting
Speaker 2: to be time for me to try to move on
Speaker 2: to a bigger market. You know, in television news, especially
Speaker 2: back then, the trajectories started in a tiny little town,
Speaker 2: small market media market.
Speaker 5: Big market. Well, I was in a medium market.
Speaker 2: It was time to try to reach that big market,
Speaker 2: and honestly, I felt like I don't know if I'm
Speaker 2: good enough. And I was so dreading that process and
Speaker 2: having to send out your tapes. I could never do
Speaker 2: your job, like what you guys have to do to
Speaker 2: audition and like the way you feel like you're on
Speaker 2: the ballot every day. Just the thought of having this
Speaker 2: sent out those tapes in all the rejection. So I
Speaker 2: was like, you know what I'm going to do. It
Speaker 2: wasn't even time to do that. I was like, I'm
Speaker 2: going to take the l SAT, the law school entrance exam,
Speaker 2: and I'll see how I do, and I'll have it
Speaker 2: in my back pocket. So if I can't get a
Speaker 2: job in a bigger market, I can apply to law school.
Speaker 5: I know.
Speaker 2: I was like it was my plan B in a way,
Speaker 2: like if I.
Speaker 4: That's crazy, your plan B is, man, I'm going to
Speaker 4: get a law degree.
Speaker 3: That'll be my plan B. When you nuts, well.
Speaker 2: Here's what's the crazy. This is like such a wild story,
Speaker 2: So I'll let all the deadlines pass. I took the
Speaker 2: L side. It was like December nineteen ninety eight. Everything passed.
Speaker 2: There was no way I was going to law school.
Speaker 2: I got a letter out of the blue in the mail.
Speaker 2: Let's say it was February nineteen ninety nine from Georgetown
Speaker 2: Law saying, the deadlines for applications have expired, but we
Speaker 2: will extend it for you if you apply by March fifteenth.
Speaker 2: And I was like, what is this letter and why
Speaker 2: am I getting it? But I looked at it as like, oh,
Speaker 2: you know, an invitation. So I sent off that application,
Speaker 2: got in two weeks later, and just decided to go.
Speaker 2: You know, I just felt like, this is a door,
Speaker 2: It's my job to walk through it. I'm terrified. I
Speaker 2: don't even know if I'm done with TV. I'm excited
Speaker 2: to go to law school. I'm excited to move across
Speaker 2: the country, go to Georgetown.
Speaker 5: What a dream? And so I went for it.
Speaker 4: And then you pivot back to journalism after huge success
Speaker 4: in Georgetown Law.
Speaker 2: What's wrong with me? Why do I keep blowing up
Speaker 2: perfectly good careers?
Speaker 4: Listen, you could pivot tomorrow and decide you want to
Speaker 4: change careers.
Speaker 2: So I went, you know the long story short. As
Speaker 2: I went to law school, I got a job at
Speaker 2: a law firm. I had this clerkship with a federal judge.
Speaker 2: All lined up, and those in law school. That's a
Speaker 2: big deal. To go work for a federal judge is
Speaker 2: like your path has said, that's your pedigree. Now you're
Speaker 2: like you're on your way. And I was about to
Speaker 2: come work for the judge. It was going to be
Speaker 2: in September, and I had I just I couldn't shake
Speaker 2: the feeling that wasn't really what I wanted. Like this
Speaker 2: whole legal path was there and I liked it, but
Speaker 2: I had this secret dream of wanting to be a
Speaker 2: legal correspondent. I wanted to be on the national news.
Speaker 2: I wanted to make it in the network, you know.
Speaker 2: And that was a very far fetched idea where I
Speaker 2: was sitting in Washington, d C. At a law firm.
Speaker 2: But I decided that if I'm going to do it,
Speaker 2: I can't go. I got to do it now. So
Speaker 2: I called the judge, which this never happens, like you
Speaker 2: don't quit a clerkship before you begin, but I did.
Speaker 2: And he said come in and see me, and I said,
Speaker 2: I tried to explain it to him. Look, I have
Speaker 2: this dream. This is what I meant to do. And
Speaker 2: he said, well, do you have a job offer? And
Speaker 2: I said no, sir, And then he said, well do
Speaker 2: you have any leads or prospects. I mean, why now?
Speaker 2: And I said, no, I have nothing, and he's like, well,
Speaker 2: I get it. You know it's your dream.
Speaker 5: Come why do you come, clerk.
Speaker 2: It's just a year and then you can go do
Speaker 2: I get it, Go chase your dream. Then only going
Speaker 2: to be enhanced by this experience.
Speaker 5: You'll make contacts. Blah blah blah.
Speaker 2: And I said, Judge, I know that you're right, this
Speaker 2: makes perfect sense, but I know myself and if I
Speaker 2: don't do it now, I'm never going to have the
Speaker 2: courage again. And so he just kind of said, Okay.
Speaker 4: I'm glad he didn't go down the ego route of
Speaker 4: telling you you've made a huge mistake and blah blah
Speaker 4: blah he did with me. And what I mean like that,
Speaker 4: that's that's a fair and equitable, a good human.
Speaker 2: And by the way, let's be clear, I kind of
Speaker 2: let him left him in the lurch because now he's
Speaker 2: got a job to fill. These jobs had been filled
Speaker 2: years prior. So he was, he is and was a
Speaker 2: wonderful person.
Speaker 3: You have been with NBC since two thousand and seven.
Speaker 3: That's a long long time.
Speaker 4: Not many people can can say that Yeah, what is
Speaker 4: the most challenging moment for you that you've ever had
Speaker 4: to handle on air?
Speaker 5: Gosh?
Speaker 2: Well, I mean, you know, unfortunately, we've had a few.
Speaker 2: I mean, there have been challenging moments in the news.
Speaker 2: I mean challenge in terms of covering really hard stories,
Speaker 2: really complicated stories, especially in the beginning, you know, when
Speaker 2: I was just starting out. I mean in twenty thirteen,
Speaker 2: I was pretty darn new in the job, and the
Speaker 2: Boston Marathon bombing happened, and four days after that, there
Speaker 2: was you may recall, you know, all through the night
Speaker 2: they found those suspects and they shut down the city
Speaker 2: of Boston, and it was during our era, and I
Speaker 2: just happened to be alone on set that day and
Speaker 2: we anchored for seven hours straight. And that's a moment
Speaker 2: where you have an American city sheltering in place out
Speaker 2: of fear of a terrorist attack and it's you. You know,
Speaker 2: that is a challenging moment on air, like I cannot
Speaker 2: mess this up. We have to have our facts unassailable,
Speaker 2: we have to have the tone be correct. So those
Speaker 2: there are a lot of moments like that, and then,
Speaker 2: of course, you know, I think there have been moments
Speaker 2: ups and downs the network and at the show, and
Speaker 2: those have been hard to you know, those are moments
Speaker 2: that break your heart. And I think what has gotten
Speaker 2: me through is just trying to put my head down
Speaker 2: and do the job and recognize how lucky I am
Speaker 2: to do it. The Today Show is full of beautiful, brilliant, hilarious,
Speaker 2: top of the game people, and it's so much more
Speaker 2: than anyone you see on TV.
Speaker 4: I don't know if you knew this, but there was
Speaker 4: a moment when I was going to literally come in
Speaker 4: and it was it was such an exciting time because
Speaker 4: it was on the Today Show. Yeah, the Today Show.
Speaker 4: So I was co hosting with Willie Geist and we
Speaker 4: were doing the whole whole week and so and it
Speaker 4: was it was just it was in that hour, not
Speaker 4: in the in the earlier hour, but it was in
Speaker 4: the nine o'clock hour, and we had the best time,
Speaker 4: and people were like, oh, this is this is going
Speaker 4: to be great. And then the people in charge called
Speaker 4: my agents. We sat down and they asked if I
Speaker 4: was interested, and I did all the homework and I
Speaker 4: was already and then all of a sudden, someone else
Speaker 4: got someone else was put in that place.
Speaker 2: You would have been great at it. I didn't know
Speaker 2: all that, but you would have been great. And I
Speaker 2: know we love Willie. He's like, I know, he's a
Speaker 2: of yours too.
Speaker 3: God.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it was uh, it was right down to the
Speaker 4: I mean we were in totally go like the whole thing,
Speaker 4: and then all of a sudden they they gave it
Speaker 4: to somebody else and and then that ended up eventually
Speaker 4: not working out. But but it was it was kind
Speaker 4: of crushing, but it was also for me, it was
Speaker 4: like it was I called the show now What? And
Speaker 4: for me that was a now what moment because I thought, Okay, Brook,
Speaker 4: I don't fight being a personality. And I've had many
Speaker 4: now what moments in my life and that that was
Speaker 4: sort of one of them. When it was when I
Speaker 4: was approached to do this and I'm just interested always,
Speaker 4: and then the unexpected things and that just sort of
Speaker 4: pop into our lives, whether they're spiritual or professional or personal.
Speaker 3: And looking back, for you, is there a pivot now
Speaker 3: what moment for you?
Speaker 2: I mean yeah, I mean probably my biggest now whats
Speaker 2: were personal? You know, like I told you when I
Speaker 2: wasn't you know, I found myself divorced at thirty five
Speaker 2: or thirty six, and you know, just like now what
Speaker 2: do I do?
Speaker 5: You know, what about what's going to happen?
Speaker 2: You know, I poured myself into work, and I'm so
Speaker 2: grateful and lucky that it wasn't the end, you know,
Speaker 2: and that there was this wonderful future waiting for me,
Speaker 2: my kids and my family and my husband. Like that's
Speaker 2: the most important thing to me. That is my life's work.
Speaker 2: It's what I care most about. And I always think
Speaker 2: you kind of alluded to this earlier. It's like, yes,
Speaker 2: I probably wished that I could have had kids earlier,
Speaker 2: if I could have written my own script or written
Speaker 2: my own life. But I wouldn't want any other kids
Speaker 2: but Vail and Charlie. I want those babies, and I
Speaker 2: would have waited forever just for them.
Speaker 3: There's always more.
Speaker 4: I mean, I have on an entire platform that I've
Speaker 4: been again, and it's about being in your fifties and
Speaker 4: or forties and up and I'm fifty eight, but like
Speaker 4: being in this era of our lives and realizing there
Speaker 4: is more. Oh, it's the best manifesting it for yourself,
Speaker 4: Like what are you manifesting for yourself? Like what are
Speaker 4: you excited about? And manifesting for yourself in this current future.
Speaker 2: You know what, I daydream all the time about my future,
Speaker 2: and I think of it less in work ways. I
Speaker 2: think of it as I was just thinking about this
Speaker 2: this morning. You know, I used to love to sing
Speaker 2: and play the guitar. I cannot sing a note anymore.
Speaker 2: My voice has gotten even scratchier than ever. But I thought,
Speaker 2: you know what, maybe one day I'll pick up that
Speaker 2: guitar again, and I'll find my voice and I'll sing.
Speaker 2: Let's be clear, I'm not releasing any albums just for me.
Speaker 2: Maybe I'll just sing at my house for me and
Speaker 2: love to write songs. I used to write songs. Maybe
Speaker 2: I love writing. I want to do some writing, you know,
Speaker 2: I just you have to. I like daydreaming about a
Speaker 2: future that has a lot. I want to learn language.
Speaker 2: I want to learn Spanish. I know a little bit
Speaker 2: because I grew up in Tucson, Arizona, you know, forty
Speaker 2: five minutes from the border, so I know a little
Speaker 2: bit of Spanish and took Spanish.
Speaker 5: But that's something I really want to do.
Speaker 2: So that's where what I'm manifesting are things that are
Speaker 2: less about work and more about completing Me and the
Speaker 2: Things I dream of.
Speaker 4: That was Savannah Guthrie, and if you want to hear
Speaker 4: more from her, go watch Today, which airs weekday mornings
Speaker 4: on NBC.
Speaker 5: Now.
Speaker 4: What with Burkeshields is a production of iHeartRadio. Our lead
Speaker 4: producer and wonderful showrunner is Julia Weaver. Additional research and
Speaker 4: editing by Darby Masters and Abu Zafar. Our executive producer
Speaker 4: is Christina Everett. The show is mixed by Bahied Fraser.