1 00:00:04,120 --> 00:00:06,120 Speaker 1: What do you do when life doesn't go according to 2 00:00:06,200 --> 00:00:09,760 Speaker 1: plan that moment you lose a job, or a loved one, 3 00:00:10,280 --> 00:00:14,080 Speaker 1: or even a piece of yourself. I'm Brookshields and this 4 00:00:14,560 --> 00:00:18,759 Speaker 1: is now What, a podcast about pivotal moments as told 5 00:00:18,760 --> 00:00:21,600 Speaker 1: by people who lived them. Each week, I sit down 6 00:00:21,600 --> 00:00:23,840 Speaker 1: with a guest to talk about the times they were 7 00:00:23,920 --> 00:00:26,920 Speaker 1: knocked off course and what they did to move forward. 8 00:00:27,880 --> 00:00:33,080 Speaker 1: Some stories are funny, others are gut wrenching, but all 9 00:00:33,360 --> 00:00:38,320 Speaker 1: are unapologetically human and remind us that every success and 10 00:00:38,479 --> 00:00:42,839 Speaker 1: every setback is accompanied by a choice, and that choice 11 00:00:43,000 --> 00:00:45,680 Speaker 1: answers one question, now what. 12 00:00:49,280 --> 00:00:52,280 Speaker 2: I had wonderful parents, and they loved us and cared 13 00:00:52,280 --> 00:00:54,800 Speaker 2: for us. But they weren't the kind of parents who 14 00:00:54,840 --> 00:00:58,560 Speaker 2: were like, hey, the SATs in May, are we studying. 15 00:00:58,600 --> 00:00:59,200 Speaker 3: Parents at that? 16 00:00:59,480 --> 00:01:01,920 Speaker 4: I mean no, they knew that when the essayt was 17 00:01:01,960 --> 00:01:04,440 Speaker 4: and I mean didn't even know to drive me to it. 18 00:01:04,680 --> 00:01:07,559 Speaker 3: You know it was. I did it all on my own, 19 00:01:07,680 --> 00:01:09,840 Speaker 3: and you did too, Yeah I did. 20 00:01:09,959 --> 00:01:11,720 Speaker 4: I mean I did it all in my I mean 21 00:01:11,760 --> 00:01:14,400 Speaker 4: my mom didn't even know deadlines to apply for college. 22 00:01:15,280 --> 00:01:17,679 Speaker 3: They weren't asking me about my essay. They weren't, you know. 23 00:01:17,840 --> 00:01:19,800 Speaker 2: No, none of it. That's what makes me laugh. Like 24 00:01:19,959 --> 00:01:22,520 Speaker 2: I asked my mom recently, I'm like, hey, Mom, you 25 00:01:22,560 --> 00:01:24,800 Speaker 2: know I got like, you know, pretty average on my 26 00:01:24,920 --> 00:01:27,360 Speaker 2: essayt you know, like, did you ever were you ever 27 00:01:27,520 --> 00:01:29,120 Speaker 2: thinking like maybe we should set up in one of 28 00:01:29,160 --> 00:01:32,240 Speaker 2: these prep courses or whatever, or did I And she said, no. 29 00:01:32,280 --> 00:01:34,000 Speaker 5: Honey, was your test on my test? 30 00:01:34,360 --> 00:01:35,040 Speaker 3: Oh my god. 31 00:01:35,080 --> 00:01:35,560 Speaker 5: I love that. 32 00:01:35,760 --> 00:01:38,720 Speaker 2: I'm like, boom, that's Nancy Guthrie in a nutshell. 33 00:01:43,520 --> 00:01:47,000 Speaker 4: My guest today is Savannah gut Thrie. Savannah is an 34 00:01:47,000 --> 00:01:52,000 Speaker 4: award winning journalist, a TV personality, an author, a former attorney, 35 00:01:52,440 --> 00:01:56,800 Speaker 4: a loving wife and mother, and so much more. She's 36 00:01:56,840 --> 00:01:59,880 Speaker 4: been with NBC for more than a decade, during what 37 00:02:00,240 --> 00:02:04,240 Speaker 4: she's moderated debates, covered some of the biggest news stories 38 00:02:04,280 --> 00:02:09,640 Speaker 4: of the decade, and has interviewed world leaders, celebrities, and 39 00:02:09,720 --> 00:02:16,040 Speaker 4: newsmakers alike. Savannah is razor sharp, empathetic, and incredibly down 40 00:02:16,120 --> 00:02:19,639 Speaker 4: to earth. We've met a number of times over the years, 41 00:02:20,240 --> 00:02:23,399 Speaker 4: and she's always a breath of fresh air. I hope 42 00:02:23,400 --> 00:02:25,960 Speaker 4: you enjoyed this interview as much as I do. Here 43 00:02:26,040 --> 00:02:31,520 Speaker 4: is Savannah Guthrie. 44 00:02:32,480 --> 00:02:33,600 Speaker 3: I know how busy you are. 45 00:02:33,680 --> 00:02:38,440 Speaker 4: I cannot even imagine, and next time when we get 46 00:02:38,440 --> 00:02:40,559 Speaker 4: a chance to talk, I want to do it in person. 47 00:02:40,440 --> 00:02:42,799 Speaker 5: Whether we're podcasting or not. I want to see you. 48 00:02:43,120 --> 00:02:45,280 Speaker 4: Absolutely, and I would like to have let's see what's 49 00:02:45,280 --> 00:02:47,600 Speaker 4: your cocktail of choice these days, because mine's still pretty 50 00:02:47,639 --> 00:02:49,079 Speaker 4: much tequila, but oh. 51 00:02:48,960 --> 00:02:51,440 Speaker 2: My god, me too, vodka soda with like squeezed half 52 00:02:51,440 --> 00:02:52,560 Speaker 2: a lime and lots of ice. 53 00:02:52,880 --> 00:02:54,119 Speaker 5: I call it a savinita. 54 00:02:54,280 --> 00:02:58,760 Speaker 4: Savanita. I like that, Hey, you're onto something, Thank you 55 00:02:58,840 --> 00:03:00,760 Speaker 4: so much. And I know that you're schedule is so 56 00:03:00,840 --> 00:03:04,200 Speaker 4: different than most people's, Like I don't think people I'm 57 00:03:04,240 --> 00:03:07,840 Speaker 4: friends with people who are also like in your industry 58 00:03:07,880 --> 00:03:08,840 Speaker 4: and they go to bed. 59 00:03:08,639 --> 00:03:10,400 Speaker 5: At eight Loserville. 60 00:03:10,440 --> 00:03:11,400 Speaker 3: Well no, but. 61 00:03:11,320 --> 00:03:14,840 Speaker 4: Also it's actually kind of the times that I've done it, 62 00:03:14,880 --> 00:03:18,520 Speaker 4: there's something really kind of quiet and beautiful about the 63 00:03:18,639 --> 00:03:21,600 Speaker 4: time on both ends. Yeah, you were quoted once as 64 00:03:21,600 --> 00:03:23,760 Speaker 4: saying your perfect dinner time is four. 65 00:03:24,040 --> 00:03:26,240 Speaker 2: Well, you know, there's all these articles now that say 66 00:03:26,320 --> 00:03:28,919 Speaker 2: that in New York City, like six is the new 67 00:03:29,600 --> 00:03:32,280 Speaker 2: eight or five is the new seven, And I'm like, no, 68 00:03:32,360 --> 00:03:34,800 Speaker 2: I don't want anyone to find out this wonderful secret 69 00:03:34,840 --> 00:03:38,480 Speaker 2: that eating at five or four is really awesome. 70 00:03:38,800 --> 00:03:42,880 Speaker 4: I always love hearing people talk about their early years. 71 00:03:43,480 --> 00:03:46,680 Speaker 4: My early years were all documented, so it's never a 72 00:03:46,720 --> 00:03:50,400 Speaker 4: surprise to anybody. What were you like as a little girl. 73 00:03:50,520 --> 00:03:53,520 Speaker 2: You were from Tucson, you said, yeah, Tucson, Arizona. 74 00:03:53,720 --> 00:03:57,640 Speaker 4: My godmother was from Tucson. So I spent so many summers. 75 00:03:57,920 --> 00:04:01,120 Speaker 4: You did Tucson, yep. And then we spent time in Prescott, 76 00:04:01,160 --> 00:04:03,600 Speaker 4: and we would like when we were being sort of fancy, 77 00:04:03,640 --> 00:04:05,560 Speaker 4: we'd go to Phoenix and we would go to the 78 00:04:05,560 --> 00:04:08,400 Speaker 4: Biltmore Wow, and I'd get to swim in that pool. 79 00:04:09,080 --> 00:04:09,960 Speaker 3: It was sun Tea. 80 00:04:10,080 --> 00:04:11,840 Speaker 4: Was the first time I ever knew about sun Tea 81 00:04:12,000 --> 00:04:13,440 Speaker 4: was was in Tucson. 82 00:04:14,400 --> 00:04:16,320 Speaker 2: How have we never talked about this? I mean, this 83 00:04:16,400 --> 00:04:19,320 Speaker 2: is it's so unique. Most people have barely even heard 84 00:04:19,320 --> 00:04:21,920 Speaker 2: of Tucson, and here you were there in the summer, 85 00:04:22,000 --> 00:04:23,600 Speaker 2: so you know what it's like to be a kid 86 00:04:23,760 --> 00:04:26,120 Speaker 2: outside and how hot it is. By the way, you 87 00:04:26,160 --> 00:04:29,360 Speaker 2: also said Prescott, right, it's not Prescott's. 88 00:04:28,680 --> 00:04:30,040 Speaker 3: No, it's not Prescott. It's Prescott. 89 00:04:31,040 --> 00:04:33,960 Speaker 2: You're honorary arizonas I am. 90 00:04:34,000 --> 00:04:37,359 Speaker 4: Actually, it's kind of crazy. So when you were the 91 00:04:37,400 --> 00:04:40,680 Speaker 4: youngest of three, yes, so you're the baby. 92 00:04:40,760 --> 00:04:43,840 Speaker 3: What were you like? What was little Savannah. 93 00:04:43,400 --> 00:04:46,640 Speaker 2: Like you know, I think in some ways probably very 94 00:04:46,640 --> 00:04:50,880 Speaker 2: similar to how I am now. I was sensitive, really sensitive. 95 00:04:51,400 --> 00:04:54,680 Speaker 2: I was a pleaser, you know. I think I was 96 00:04:55,279 --> 00:05:00,120 Speaker 2: mostly a pretty good girl, not too too rebellious. I 97 00:05:00,160 --> 00:05:04,120 Speaker 2: wasn't very athletic, that remains true. I'm super clumsy, I 98 00:05:04,200 --> 00:05:06,240 Speaker 2: was chubby, I had curly hair. 99 00:05:06,560 --> 00:05:07,279 Speaker 5: You know, I was. 100 00:05:07,440 --> 00:05:10,359 Speaker 2: I would very often be the last person picked on 101 00:05:10,400 --> 00:05:11,800 Speaker 2: those like the sports teams. 102 00:05:11,800 --> 00:05:13,120 Speaker 5: It's not because people didn't like me. 103 00:05:13,160 --> 00:05:15,520 Speaker 2: I just wasn't good at sports, so I would be 104 00:05:15,560 --> 00:05:17,719 Speaker 2: there like you know, or I was like the slowest. 105 00:05:18,000 --> 00:05:19,400 Speaker 5: Sometimes I feel like that's. 106 00:05:19,240 --> 00:05:23,000 Speaker 2: Why I kind of had to develop a personality, because 107 00:05:23,720 --> 00:05:25,520 Speaker 2: because I wasn't going to be making it on my 108 00:05:25,520 --> 00:05:27,599 Speaker 2: looks and athleticism, let's just put it that way. 109 00:05:27,680 --> 00:05:28,320 Speaker 3: Well, it's funny. 110 00:05:28,400 --> 00:05:31,359 Speaker 4: I was always picked last for dodgeball I and it 111 00:05:31,440 --> 00:05:35,440 Speaker 4: was because I was bigger than everybody, so I was 112 00:05:35,480 --> 00:05:37,000 Speaker 4: an easier tarketed. 113 00:05:38,240 --> 00:05:38,440 Speaker 5: You know. 114 00:05:38,480 --> 00:05:40,600 Speaker 2: I don't know if they still do that, but I 115 00:05:40,640 --> 00:05:43,800 Speaker 2: can't stand that practice of everyone lines up and they 116 00:05:43,800 --> 00:05:47,680 Speaker 2: have two team captains. It's excruciating, Like we pick so so, 117 00:05:47,720 --> 00:05:50,120 Speaker 2: and even your best friend, we'll pick someone else because 118 00:05:50,120 --> 00:05:51,680 Speaker 2: you know they want to win, and you don't blame them, 119 00:05:51,720 --> 00:05:54,440 Speaker 2: you know, you're like, but it's just so painful. 120 00:05:54,560 --> 00:05:56,400 Speaker 3: And we've been doing it ever since then. 121 00:05:56,560 --> 00:05:56,880 Speaker 5: I know. 122 00:05:57,080 --> 00:05:58,440 Speaker 2: But I had a good childhood. I mean I was 123 00:05:58,480 --> 00:06:00,840 Speaker 2: like a pretty happy kid. I would say, but yeah, 124 00:06:00,960 --> 00:06:03,120 Speaker 2: look maybe a little awkward inside. 125 00:06:03,080 --> 00:06:05,560 Speaker 4: Think, I mean, we're all a little awkward inside, but true. 126 00:06:05,960 --> 00:06:08,520 Speaker 4: So what dreams did you have for yourself as a 127 00:06:08,560 --> 00:06:09,279 Speaker 4: little girl. 128 00:06:09,440 --> 00:06:12,880 Speaker 2: No, I didn't have really big career dreams, I don't think, 129 00:06:13,200 --> 00:06:16,520 Speaker 2: but I did. I have always had something of a 130 00:06:16,600 --> 00:06:19,960 Speaker 2: vision of myself. I knew i'd be standing up somewhere, 131 00:06:20,040 --> 00:06:22,599 Speaker 2: pointing to things and explaining things. So for a while 132 00:06:22,640 --> 00:06:24,680 Speaker 2: I was like, maybe I'll be a teacher, you know. 133 00:06:25,040 --> 00:06:28,560 Speaker 2: And I always kind of had that I will call 134 00:06:28,600 --> 00:06:31,240 Speaker 2: it a vision like that's I could see myself standing 135 00:06:31,320 --> 00:06:34,320 Speaker 2: up and being an explainer and a communicator, even though 136 00:06:34,320 --> 00:06:36,839 Speaker 2: I didn't have words for it then. So first I 137 00:06:36,880 --> 00:06:39,480 Speaker 2: thought teacher, Then I thought you know. Then I went 138 00:06:39,520 --> 00:06:42,760 Speaker 2: to school and I started getting into journalism and all that. 139 00:06:42,720 --> 00:06:44,240 Speaker 5: And so it kind of jelled with that. 140 00:06:44,720 --> 00:06:46,479 Speaker 2: And later when I went to law school, I was like, 141 00:06:46,560 --> 00:06:49,000 Speaker 2: maybe ILL meant to stand up in court make an argument. 142 00:06:49,040 --> 00:06:51,119 Speaker 2: So it all kind of it's all of a piece, 143 00:06:51,279 --> 00:06:53,479 Speaker 2: you know, kind of what I ended up doing matched 144 00:06:53,560 --> 00:06:53,919 Speaker 2: up with that. 145 00:06:54,279 --> 00:06:56,640 Speaker 4: I mean, this is interesting because you were clearly not 146 00:06:57,320 --> 00:07:00,760 Speaker 4: a slacker as a little kid. And I read in 147 00:07:01,360 --> 00:07:06,440 Speaker 4: your Georgetown Law commencement speech, which in and of itself 148 00:07:06,760 --> 00:07:12,560 Speaker 4: is a beautiful thing to have in your roster. You 149 00:07:12,600 --> 00:07:16,240 Speaker 4: said something that I loved so much. You said, slackers 150 00:07:17,200 --> 00:07:18,320 Speaker 4: can turn it around. 151 00:07:18,840 --> 00:07:22,560 Speaker 2: Yes, I am living proof of that. I think as 152 00:07:22,600 --> 00:07:25,200 Speaker 2: a little girl, I was a pretty good student. I was, 153 00:07:25,400 --> 00:07:26,600 Speaker 2: you know, like I said, I think I was a 154 00:07:26,600 --> 00:07:27,360 Speaker 2: pretty good girl. 155 00:07:27,760 --> 00:07:28,640 Speaker 5: When I got into. 156 00:07:28,600 --> 00:07:32,880 Speaker 2: High school, I just was really checked out. You know, 157 00:07:33,440 --> 00:07:37,000 Speaker 2: I just wasn't very interested in school. I went to 158 00:07:37,040 --> 00:07:40,560 Speaker 2: a very big public high school. It was easy to 159 00:07:40,640 --> 00:07:44,440 Speaker 2: blend in, and I cut class a lot, Like, I 160 00:07:44,520 --> 00:07:49,320 Speaker 2: missed whole swaths of classes. I'd missed a test, So 161 00:07:49,400 --> 00:07:52,680 Speaker 2: I had very average grades, Like I mean, I barely 162 00:07:52,720 --> 00:07:53,400 Speaker 2: squeaked by. 163 00:07:53,760 --> 00:07:55,520 Speaker 4: Was it just not important to you or did you 164 00:07:55,600 --> 00:07:57,560 Speaker 4: just were like, what's this going to do for me? 165 00:07:58,280 --> 00:08:00,880 Speaker 2: I think I just was like teenager who was more 166 00:08:00,880 --> 00:08:04,080 Speaker 2: interested in hanging out with my friends and smoking cigarettes. 167 00:08:04,160 --> 00:08:07,320 Speaker 2: And you know, I think in my family it was 168 00:08:07,480 --> 00:08:09,760 Speaker 2: my family it was a difficult time in my family. 169 00:08:09,800 --> 00:08:10,720 Speaker 5: They were distracted. 170 00:08:10,760 --> 00:08:13,160 Speaker 2: They there were a lot of hardships that the family 171 00:08:13,240 --> 00:08:15,880 Speaker 2: was going through. My grandparents had moved in with us. 172 00:08:15,920 --> 00:08:18,760 Speaker 2: My grandfather passed away. My father had a heart attack. 173 00:08:18,800 --> 00:08:21,040 Speaker 2: He ended up he passed away when I was sixteen, 174 00:08:21,040 --> 00:08:23,800 Speaker 2: actually junior in high school. They were very of course 175 00:08:23,960 --> 00:08:26,920 Speaker 2: I had wonderful parents, and they loved us and cared 176 00:08:26,960 --> 00:08:29,520 Speaker 2: for us. But they weren't the kind of parents who 177 00:08:29,520 --> 00:08:32,800 Speaker 2: were like, hey, the SATs in May are we studying. 178 00:08:33,040 --> 00:08:34,559 Speaker 5: I mean, I don't. 179 00:08:34,400 --> 00:08:36,720 Speaker 2: Even think my parents knew the SAT was coming up. 180 00:08:36,760 --> 00:08:38,720 Speaker 2: I mean, I actually think I forgot. That's why I 181 00:08:38,760 --> 00:08:41,360 Speaker 2: did so terribly on it. They just it's not that 182 00:08:41,440 --> 00:08:45,240 Speaker 2: they didn't care. Of course, they cared, And actually I 183 00:08:45,280 --> 00:08:48,199 Speaker 2: always felt that they really believed in me and felt 184 00:08:48,800 --> 00:08:51,800 Speaker 2: that I had a lot of talent and intelligence. 185 00:08:51,840 --> 00:08:53,840 Speaker 5: And I think they felt that way about all of us. 186 00:08:54,080 --> 00:08:55,200 Speaker 3: But it was a different era. 187 00:08:55,600 --> 00:08:58,240 Speaker 5: It was a different era. They were not hovering parents. 188 00:08:58,280 --> 00:09:01,520 Speaker 2: So if I wasn't going to keep up with my responsibilities, 189 00:09:02,000 --> 00:09:06,040 Speaker 2: they just were too overwhelmed by real issues in life 190 00:09:06,120 --> 00:09:07,480 Speaker 2: to try to like crack. 191 00:09:07,320 --> 00:09:07,840 Speaker 5: Down on that. 192 00:09:07,920 --> 00:09:10,000 Speaker 2: I mean, I'd get grounded or they say, why do 193 00:09:10,040 --> 00:09:12,520 Speaker 2: you get a d in geometry? But it just you know, 194 00:09:12,760 --> 00:09:15,559 Speaker 2: that's how it was, so I always laugh about it. Yes, 195 00:09:15,640 --> 00:09:18,600 Speaker 2: I was a pretty average to terrible student in high school. 196 00:09:18,640 --> 00:09:21,720 Speaker 2: I graduated, I went to college in my hometown. You know. 197 00:09:21,920 --> 00:09:24,960 Speaker 2: It wasn't until midway through college that things started to 198 00:09:24,960 --> 00:09:27,440 Speaker 2: click for me and I started getting interested and I 199 00:09:27,480 --> 00:09:30,160 Speaker 2: found journalism and I found writing, and I loved all that. 200 00:09:30,640 --> 00:09:32,199 Speaker 2: And I say I was a slacker, but I always 201 00:09:32,240 --> 00:09:33,960 Speaker 2: had a job at a job since I was fourteen 202 00:09:34,040 --> 00:09:36,920 Speaker 2: years old, So I wasn't like sitting around watching the 203 00:09:36,960 --> 00:09:38,120 Speaker 2: soapseding bond bonds. 204 00:09:38,160 --> 00:09:40,720 Speaker 5: I worked really hard. I just wasn't much of a scholar. 205 00:09:41,000 --> 00:09:43,640 Speaker 4: But in a way, I mean it laid the groundwork. 206 00:09:43,720 --> 00:09:47,240 Speaker 4: It's like you've been, I mean, in the healthiest way, 207 00:09:47,280 --> 00:09:51,120 Speaker 4: ambitious and focused and driven since then, because you had 208 00:09:51,120 --> 00:09:53,760 Speaker 4: to learn that at such an early age. But you 209 00:09:53,880 --> 00:09:57,480 Speaker 4: also had to deal with grief at such an early age. Yeah, 210 00:09:57,559 --> 00:10:01,160 Speaker 4: your father died suddenly. Yeah, and you were sixteen. 211 00:10:02,120 --> 00:10:04,720 Speaker 2: Yes, he had a heart attack. So when I was thirteen, 212 00:10:04,800 --> 00:10:06,640 Speaker 2: he had a heart attack. I think I was a 213 00:10:06,679 --> 00:10:09,840 Speaker 2: freshman in high school, and I don't think the kids. 214 00:10:09,840 --> 00:10:13,320 Speaker 2: I don't think we understood how serious that was. And 215 00:10:13,360 --> 00:10:16,400 Speaker 2: then three years later he had another heart attack and 216 00:10:16,400 --> 00:10:19,360 Speaker 2: that one was fatal, and he I mean, it was 217 00:10:19,400 --> 00:10:20,280 Speaker 2: so unexpected. 218 00:10:20,720 --> 00:10:24,640 Speaker 4: How does that kind of loss, How does a loss 219 00:10:24,640 --> 00:10:29,640 Speaker 4: of that magnitude change you in the years that followed. 220 00:10:30,000 --> 00:10:32,720 Speaker 2: I think it changes everything, you know. I always think 221 00:10:32,760 --> 00:10:35,360 Speaker 2: of it as like, you know, on our calendars we 222 00:10:35,400 --> 00:10:38,400 Speaker 2: have like BC and AD, there's like a before and after. 223 00:10:38,559 --> 00:10:41,160 Speaker 2: It's just like this stark dividing line. You know. It's 224 00:10:41,200 --> 00:10:44,760 Speaker 2: like there's before my dad died and there's after. And 225 00:10:45,880 --> 00:10:46,800 Speaker 2: it's profound. 226 00:10:47,559 --> 00:10:47,880 Speaker 5: It takes. 227 00:10:47,960 --> 00:10:51,240 Speaker 2: I mean, grief is a lifelong process. I really believe that. 228 00:10:51,400 --> 00:10:55,120 Speaker 2: You know, there's a cute grief. There's different moments of grief. 229 00:10:55,160 --> 00:10:57,920 Speaker 2: But I remember thinking, even then, when I was a 230 00:10:58,040 --> 00:11:00,680 Speaker 2: late teenager, I always thought, I have a cup of 231 00:11:00,720 --> 00:11:03,920 Speaker 2: grief now, like it's like a cup of water, and 232 00:11:04,360 --> 00:11:06,360 Speaker 2: I'm going to spend the rest of my life emptying 233 00:11:06,400 --> 00:11:10,120 Speaker 2: this cup. And sometimes it's coming out in buckets, and 234 00:11:10,200 --> 00:11:12,760 Speaker 2: sometimes it's a little sprinkle, and sometimes I can just 235 00:11:12,800 --> 00:11:15,200 Speaker 2: hold it and nothing comes out. But every last drop 236 00:11:15,240 --> 00:11:17,600 Speaker 2: of this cup will not be empty until I leave 237 00:11:17,640 --> 00:11:18,120 Speaker 2: this world. 238 00:11:18,160 --> 00:11:20,360 Speaker 5: I will always carry this grief. 239 00:11:20,640 --> 00:11:23,320 Speaker 2: It doesn't mean that I'm not happy, that I'm not joyous, 240 00:11:23,440 --> 00:11:26,000 Speaker 2: that I don't I mean, of course, but it's part 241 00:11:26,040 --> 00:11:27,920 Speaker 2: of me. This cup of grief is part of me, 242 00:11:28,000 --> 00:11:31,560 Speaker 2: and I think it made me more serious internally. 243 00:11:32,040 --> 00:11:35,200 Speaker 5: When you lose a parent like that, so suddenly. 244 00:11:34,840 --> 00:11:38,840 Speaker 2: It's so shocking. At sixteen, you just have some knowledge, 245 00:11:38,960 --> 00:11:43,440 Speaker 2: You just know something about the world that hopefully others 246 00:11:43,559 --> 00:11:44,240 Speaker 2: don't have to know. 247 00:11:45,000 --> 00:11:49,040 Speaker 4: Did it change your view of parenting, or taking risks 248 00:11:49,120 --> 00:11:49,800 Speaker 4: or health. 249 00:11:50,000 --> 00:11:51,480 Speaker 5: It's hard to know. 250 00:11:50,960 --> 00:11:54,800 Speaker 2: I know it changed me and probably changed the whole 251 00:11:54,840 --> 00:11:58,200 Speaker 2: trajectory of my life. I mean, I often think that 252 00:11:58,480 --> 00:12:02,199 Speaker 2: I would have been totally different if my father had lived. 253 00:12:02,360 --> 00:12:05,560 Speaker 2: I just don't know that I would have chosen this career. 254 00:12:05,800 --> 00:12:08,959 Speaker 2: I don't know if I would have left home, I 255 00:12:09,200 --> 00:12:10,880 Speaker 2: might have stayed in my hometown. I don't know what 256 00:12:10,920 --> 00:12:14,480 Speaker 2: I would have done. Yeah, but I know fundamentally it 257 00:12:14,559 --> 00:12:18,199 Speaker 2: changed everything, and some things it changed for the better, 258 00:12:18,320 --> 00:12:22,840 Speaker 2: in the sense of I know that my heart is 259 00:12:22,880 --> 00:12:26,720 Speaker 2: more tender because of it, you know, I know, I 260 00:12:26,760 --> 00:12:29,720 Speaker 2: think you know. I wasn't afraid to talk to people 261 00:12:29,800 --> 00:12:32,480 Speaker 2: who are sad or in grief because I know what 262 00:12:32,559 --> 00:12:35,760 Speaker 2: it's like to be in grief, and I know that 263 00:12:36,080 --> 00:12:38,800 Speaker 2: pretty much there's nothing you can say that's going to 264 00:12:38,840 --> 00:12:42,000 Speaker 2: make them feel any worse. And that actually not everyone, 265 00:12:42,040 --> 00:12:45,160 Speaker 2: but when you lose someone, often the person wants to 266 00:12:45,200 --> 00:12:47,120 Speaker 2: talk about that. Like if somebody comes up to me 267 00:12:47,160 --> 00:12:49,160 Speaker 2: and has something to tell me about my dad, which 268 00:12:49,200 --> 00:12:51,960 Speaker 2: occasionally will happen on the process, someone will say, you know, 269 00:12:52,720 --> 00:12:55,400 Speaker 2: my uncle was cousins or my uncle was you know, 270 00:12:55,559 --> 00:12:57,520 Speaker 2: went to high school with your father and he always 271 00:12:57,559 --> 00:13:00,679 Speaker 2: said and I'm like, I can't hear enough of it. 272 00:13:06,920 --> 00:13:10,440 Speaker 4: You've been open about infertility struggles and your IVF journey 273 00:13:10,480 --> 00:13:13,800 Speaker 4: with your husband. Yeah, I went through IVF seven times, 274 00:13:13,800 --> 00:13:15,480 Speaker 4: so I have complete empathy for you. 275 00:13:16,160 --> 00:13:18,480 Speaker 3: When did you first start wanting to have children? 276 00:13:19,080 --> 00:13:21,880 Speaker 2: Gosh, I think I always wanted to be a mom 277 00:13:22,000 --> 00:13:24,160 Speaker 2: and always hoped that I would be a mom, and 278 00:13:24,280 --> 00:13:26,280 Speaker 2: always kind of assumed that I would be a mom, 279 00:13:26,400 --> 00:13:29,000 Speaker 2: would get married and have kids, and I really wanted 280 00:13:29,000 --> 00:13:31,240 Speaker 2: to and in fact, that may have been the thing 281 00:13:31,280 --> 00:13:33,880 Speaker 2: I wanted more than anything else, more than any career. 282 00:13:34,000 --> 00:13:36,360 Speaker 2: I wanted to just go live happily a rafter and 283 00:13:36,400 --> 00:13:37,960 Speaker 2: be married and have kids. 284 00:13:38,000 --> 00:13:40,640 Speaker 5: Like I think that's really was my biggest goal in life. 285 00:13:41,040 --> 00:13:43,920 Speaker 2: And as luck would have it, I just was not 286 00:13:44,080 --> 00:13:48,280 Speaker 2: particularly successful in my personal life, like pretty much through 287 00:13:48,320 --> 00:13:51,040 Speaker 2: my twenties and thirties, you know, I mean, you know, 288 00:13:51,200 --> 00:13:53,280 Speaker 2: i'd like have a boyfriend for a couple of years 289 00:13:53,480 --> 00:13:54,760 Speaker 2: or did not really work out. 290 00:13:54,840 --> 00:13:55,600 Speaker 5: I just couldn't, you know. 291 00:13:55,640 --> 00:13:58,160 Speaker 2: And then all my friends were getting married and oh 292 00:13:58,200 --> 00:14:00,199 Speaker 2: my gosh, then they started having babies, and I was 293 00:14:00,600 --> 00:14:04,079 Speaker 2: heartbroken about that. I mean, that was like, to me, 294 00:14:04,600 --> 00:14:08,560 Speaker 2: just my great trial and great tragedy. I so wanted 295 00:14:08,600 --> 00:14:10,840 Speaker 2: to be them. I so wanted to be married and 296 00:14:10,880 --> 00:14:14,760 Speaker 2: have kids, and I just couldn't find somebody who wanted 297 00:14:14,800 --> 00:14:16,280 Speaker 2: to marry me basically. 298 00:14:17,120 --> 00:14:19,480 Speaker 3: And also, though you were working, I mean you were. 299 00:14:19,960 --> 00:14:21,760 Speaker 2: I was. I was, and it is true. But I 300 00:14:21,800 --> 00:14:24,440 Speaker 2: think sometimes people are like, oh, you're probably too busy, 301 00:14:24,520 --> 00:14:26,320 Speaker 2: you know. You're like, I'm like, oh no, you have 302 00:14:26,320 --> 00:14:28,400 Speaker 2: to understand this about me. I'm not proud of this. 303 00:14:28,560 --> 00:14:31,560 Speaker 2: But I would have gotten off the work crazy train 304 00:14:31,760 --> 00:14:34,880 Speaker 2: in a heartbeat if I could have just fallen in 305 00:14:34,960 --> 00:14:35,960 Speaker 2: love and had kids. 306 00:14:36,160 --> 00:14:36,400 Speaker 5: You know. 307 00:14:36,560 --> 00:14:39,360 Speaker 2: I definitely wanted the fairy tale, so it was always 308 00:14:39,720 --> 00:14:42,800 Speaker 2: with me. Then in my thirties, I briefly I met someone, 309 00:14:43,160 --> 00:14:46,040 Speaker 2: we got married. It was short lived and it was just, 310 00:14:46,200 --> 00:14:49,600 Speaker 2: you know, just didn't work out. It was a sad situation. 311 00:14:49,720 --> 00:14:52,000 Speaker 2: And then I was really really crushed and sure that 312 00:14:52,080 --> 00:14:54,040 Speaker 2: I would never that it would never. 313 00:14:53,880 --> 00:14:54,480 Speaker 5: Happen for me. 314 00:14:54,880 --> 00:14:59,000 Speaker 2: So you know, I'm a person of faith, and I 315 00:14:59,040 --> 00:15:03,360 Speaker 2: will never stop more at my incredible blessing that somehow 316 00:15:03,920 --> 00:15:07,200 Speaker 2: I could be divorced at thirty five or thirty six, 317 00:15:07,840 --> 00:15:10,000 Speaker 2: that I could not get married for another five or 318 00:15:10,040 --> 00:15:13,320 Speaker 2: six years after that, and somehow, by the grace of God, 319 00:15:13,560 --> 00:15:15,560 Speaker 2: get to have my little girl, and then also by 320 00:15:15,600 --> 00:15:17,840 Speaker 2: the grace of God and IVF, get to have my 321 00:15:17,880 --> 00:15:18,440 Speaker 2: little boy. 322 00:15:18,720 --> 00:15:20,720 Speaker 5: And I'll never be over that miracle. 323 00:15:21,320 --> 00:15:26,000 Speaker 4: I mean, I was divorced at thirty eight, and by 324 00:15:26,040 --> 00:15:28,640 Speaker 4: the time I started having wanting to have kids, it 325 00:15:28,760 --> 00:15:31,480 Speaker 4: was just like, oh, this is not going to be 326 00:15:31,480 --> 00:15:34,120 Speaker 4: easy for you. And had it not been for IVF, 327 00:15:34,280 --> 00:15:37,280 Speaker 4: you know, I would not have any babies. I wouldn't 328 00:15:37,280 --> 00:15:39,360 Speaker 4: have any I wouldn't have my girls. And I've been 329 00:15:39,400 --> 00:15:45,080 Speaker 4: thinking about sort of that ownership of not just fertility 330 00:15:45,160 --> 00:15:50,600 Speaker 4: but sexuality and reclaiming and understanding my value and worth, 331 00:15:50,640 --> 00:15:55,120 Speaker 4: and it's so mind blowing to me the degree of 332 00:15:55,360 --> 00:15:59,960 Speaker 4: the treatment that was acceptable back then I've recently been 333 00:16:00,120 --> 00:16:03,120 Speaker 4: really looking back at my life, and in both of 334 00:16:03,240 --> 00:16:08,640 Speaker 4: our fields in news entertainment, were conditions for women, The 335 00:16:08,640 --> 00:16:12,680 Speaker 4: way women were viewed, the way we were all sexualized, 336 00:16:12,840 --> 00:16:14,680 Speaker 4: you know, the way we're spoken, to the way we're 337 00:16:14,760 --> 00:16:18,280 Speaker 4: dealt with. And I'm interested in your perspective on that, 338 00:16:18,320 --> 00:16:23,200 Speaker 4: because looking back, especially just as a young reporter, is 339 00:16:23,240 --> 00:16:26,120 Speaker 4: there a moment that stands out for you that was 340 00:16:26,160 --> 00:16:29,760 Speaker 4: indicative of that struggle? 341 00:16:30,600 --> 00:16:34,320 Speaker 2: You know? It's interesting because I look at the women 342 00:16:34,360 --> 00:16:37,840 Speaker 2: who came before me, like Andrew Mitchell or Leslie Stahl 343 00:16:38,000 --> 00:16:41,480 Speaker 2: or Diane Sawyer, and I guess I keep it all 344 00:16:41,520 --> 00:16:44,840 Speaker 2: on perspective when I think about what they carried on 345 00:16:44,920 --> 00:16:48,680 Speaker 2: their shoulders and the way they cleared a path, And 346 00:16:48,760 --> 00:16:52,240 Speaker 2: sometimes I feel like they cleared that path and then 347 00:16:52,280 --> 00:16:53,600 Speaker 2: I sailed right through it. 348 00:16:53,800 --> 00:16:54,040 Speaker 5: You know. 349 00:16:54,200 --> 00:16:57,400 Speaker 2: Barbara Walters was on the Today Show that she was 350 00:16:57,400 --> 00:17:00,920 Speaker 2: called a Today girl. She thought to have a seat 351 00:17:00,960 --> 00:17:03,680 Speaker 2: at the table, had there was when she first started 352 00:17:03,880 --> 00:17:05,760 Speaker 2: the co anchor, she wasn't allowed to even ask a 353 00:17:05,840 --> 00:17:09,160 Speaker 2: question until the co anchor had asked three her male 354 00:17:09,200 --> 00:17:12,359 Speaker 2: co anchor, and I just feel like I've gotten to 355 00:17:12,400 --> 00:17:16,359 Speaker 2: stand on her shoulders and Andrea's shoulders. I mean, Andrew 356 00:17:16,400 --> 00:17:18,240 Speaker 2: was like one of the leslie They were the only 357 00:17:18,280 --> 00:17:20,360 Speaker 2: women at the White House, you know, and I think 358 00:17:20,400 --> 00:17:24,120 Speaker 2: all women, I think a lot of people, but women 359 00:17:24,160 --> 00:17:27,240 Speaker 2: in particularly you feel and you just know that you 360 00:17:27,359 --> 00:17:29,840 Speaker 2: better be on your game. You know, you can't be 361 00:17:30,000 --> 00:17:34,480 Speaker 2: shallow and flighty. You have to be substantive. So I knew, 362 00:17:34,560 --> 00:17:36,160 Speaker 2: especially when I came to the White House to start 363 00:17:36,200 --> 00:17:39,159 Speaker 2: covering the White House, that was to this day the 364 00:17:39,160 --> 00:17:43,000 Speaker 2: most challenging assignment I've ever had. Why because it's so 365 00:17:44,080 --> 00:17:47,720 Speaker 2: it's just multi layered. The stakes are high, the spotlight 366 00:17:48,000 --> 00:17:51,560 Speaker 2: is bright. It yes, it's all of that. So you're like, 367 00:17:51,800 --> 00:17:53,600 Speaker 2: if you're at the White House or the network, like 368 00:17:53,640 --> 00:17:57,480 Speaker 2: you're at the top of what your network is expecting 369 00:17:57,480 --> 00:18:01,639 Speaker 2: from you. People are watching, they're scrutinizing. But also more importantly, 370 00:18:02,359 --> 00:18:04,720 Speaker 2: the issues that you're covering at the White House are 371 00:18:04,760 --> 00:18:07,280 Speaker 2: incredibly complex, and if you want to be any good 372 00:18:07,280 --> 00:18:09,919 Speaker 2: at it, you have to be pretty deep on policy. 373 00:18:10,320 --> 00:18:10,560 Speaker 5: You know. 374 00:18:10,960 --> 00:18:12,879 Speaker 2: I know that we cover a lot of politics, and 375 00:18:12,880 --> 00:18:14,879 Speaker 2: there's a lot of horse race and who's up and 376 00:18:14,920 --> 00:18:17,880 Speaker 2: who's down, But when you actually cover the White House 377 00:18:17,920 --> 00:18:20,239 Speaker 2: every day, you have to be an expert on our 378 00:18:20,320 --> 00:18:23,959 Speaker 2: nuclear policy, our education policy. 379 00:18:24,400 --> 00:18:26,879 Speaker 5: Tax policy. I mean, you got to know this stuff. 380 00:18:26,920 --> 00:18:28,679 Speaker 2: And if you want to be a good reporter and 381 00:18:28,720 --> 00:18:31,159 Speaker 2: you want to challenge some of those in power, you 382 00:18:31,240 --> 00:18:34,480 Speaker 2: got to be real deep on it. And I felt 383 00:18:34,600 --> 00:18:38,280 Speaker 2: so much anxiety. Well, I felt I could never know enough. 384 00:18:38,320 --> 00:18:40,560 Speaker 3: Did you read constantly and study constantly? 385 00:18:41,200 --> 00:18:41,440 Speaker 5: Yes? 386 00:18:41,520 --> 00:18:44,080 Speaker 2: I tried to, but then sometimes I couldn't because I 387 00:18:44,119 --> 00:18:46,200 Speaker 2: was tired or I just wanted to go to bed, 388 00:18:46,280 --> 00:18:49,479 Speaker 2: and so then I would feel afraid, you know. And 389 00:18:49,760 --> 00:18:52,400 Speaker 2: I mean Andrea to this day, I don't know, maybe 390 00:18:52,400 --> 00:18:54,320 Speaker 2: not to this day, but when I worked with her 391 00:18:54,400 --> 00:18:56,679 Speaker 2: very closely, it's like Andrew would be like reading the 392 00:18:56,680 --> 00:18:59,040 Speaker 2: newspaper at two o'clock in the morning. I mean, she's 393 00:18:59,119 --> 00:19:03,720 Speaker 2: so incredible and so intense and so focused. And I 394 00:19:03,800 --> 00:19:06,360 Speaker 2: know that that there's an aspect of that that has 395 00:19:06,440 --> 00:19:10,800 Speaker 2: to do with my femaleness, knowing that I can't I 396 00:19:10,840 --> 00:19:11,720 Speaker 2: have to be prepared. 397 00:19:11,800 --> 00:19:13,600 Speaker 5: I got to be on my game. I can't be 398 00:19:13,640 --> 00:19:14,280 Speaker 5: caught napping. 399 00:19:14,560 --> 00:19:19,560 Speaker 4: But also part of the armor is the knowledge and 400 00:19:19,600 --> 00:19:23,040 Speaker 4: self advocating. How did you know and when did you 401 00:19:23,160 --> 00:19:26,560 Speaker 4: start learning really how to self advocate for yourself in 402 00:19:26,600 --> 00:19:27,960 Speaker 4: all of these situations. 403 00:19:28,760 --> 00:19:31,400 Speaker 2: Well, you know, it's so interesting and I would never 404 00:19:31,520 --> 00:19:35,360 Speaker 2: hold up my psyche as a model for any young 405 00:19:35,400 --> 00:19:39,679 Speaker 2: woman to follow, But it's worked for me. And you know, 406 00:19:39,880 --> 00:19:44,240 Speaker 2: I think that for most of my career and my 407 00:19:44,760 --> 00:19:47,439 Speaker 2: and my legal education, all of it, what propelled me 408 00:19:47,600 --> 00:19:50,000 Speaker 2: was fear. What propelled me was fear of failure. 409 00:19:50,400 --> 00:19:50,600 Speaker 5: Yes. 410 00:19:50,640 --> 00:19:53,120 Speaker 2: It was ambitious in a certain way, but I wasn't 411 00:19:53,200 --> 00:19:58,239 Speaker 2: ambitious to win. I was ambitious not to fail. And 412 00:19:58,560 --> 00:20:02,960 Speaker 2: I don't I don't wish that perspective on my little daughter, 413 00:20:03,440 --> 00:20:06,280 Speaker 2: you know, I want her to come at it from a. 414 00:20:06,240 --> 00:20:07,919 Speaker 5: Different How do you do that? 415 00:20:08,119 --> 00:20:09,600 Speaker 3: But how do you like that? 416 00:20:09,880 --> 00:20:12,879 Speaker 2: And also by the way it works, like I not, 417 00:20:13,000 --> 00:20:15,119 Speaker 2: a little fear is not bad. No, it's not a 418 00:20:15,160 --> 00:20:18,760 Speaker 2: lot of fear is bad. Debilitating fear is bad. But 419 00:20:18,880 --> 00:20:21,240 Speaker 2: you know, in the first graduation speech I ever gave 420 00:20:21,320 --> 00:20:23,679 Speaker 2: was at my alma mater, the University of Arizona, and 421 00:20:23,760 --> 00:20:26,320 Speaker 2: I said to the students, fear of failure is good 422 00:20:26,359 --> 00:20:26,720 Speaker 2: for you. 423 00:20:27,080 --> 00:20:28,800 Speaker 5: A little fear of failure is good. 424 00:20:28,800 --> 00:20:31,320 Speaker 2: And you know, like athletes will tell you this, if 425 00:20:31,400 --> 00:20:33,080 Speaker 2: I go out there and I'm not a little scared 426 00:20:33,400 --> 00:20:35,359 Speaker 2: to lose, then I've lost my edge. You have to 427 00:20:35,400 --> 00:20:37,560 Speaker 2: have a little nervous or actors you know this. I 428 00:20:37,680 --> 00:20:39,600 Speaker 2: mean you still get a little flutter when you're out 429 00:20:39,600 --> 00:20:42,480 Speaker 2: there on stage or for me, that means you're still 430 00:20:42,480 --> 00:20:43,800 Speaker 2: in the game, you still care. 431 00:20:51,040 --> 00:20:54,720 Speaker 4: So you mentioned law school. You've been years in broadcasting 432 00:20:54,880 --> 00:20:59,640 Speaker 4: and you then decided to go to law school time 433 00:20:59,680 --> 00:21:01,720 Speaker 4: that does you know that? 434 00:21:01,960 --> 00:21:03,960 Speaker 2: It was like one of those moments I had, you know, 435 00:21:04,080 --> 00:21:06,320 Speaker 2: worked really hard to get into local news. I was 436 00:21:06,560 --> 00:21:08,440 Speaker 2: doing it. I was in it about five and a 437 00:21:08,480 --> 00:21:10,600 Speaker 2: half six years. I had been covering a lot of 438 00:21:10,720 --> 00:21:13,200 Speaker 2: trials and legal issues. It was at that moment when 439 00:21:13,480 --> 00:21:15,960 Speaker 2: court TV was really big and the OJ trial and 440 00:21:16,040 --> 00:21:18,800 Speaker 2: all those and I was really like into watching that stuff. 441 00:21:18,840 --> 00:21:21,359 Speaker 2: So I got very interested in the law. And it 442 00:21:21,480 --> 00:21:23,400 Speaker 2: kind of goes back to our fear of failure discussion, 443 00:21:23,400 --> 00:21:26,160 Speaker 2: because it was really two things. One, I was interested 444 00:21:26,280 --> 00:21:29,920 Speaker 2: in the law, and secondly, I knew it was getting 445 00:21:29,920 --> 00:21:31,359 Speaker 2: to be time for me to try to move on 446 00:21:31,400 --> 00:21:34,199 Speaker 2: to a bigger market. You know, in television news, especially 447 00:21:34,280 --> 00:21:37,320 Speaker 2: back then, the trajectories started in a tiny little town, 448 00:21:37,560 --> 00:21:39,119 Speaker 2: small market media market. 449 00:21:39,160 --> 00:21:41,120 Speaker 5: Big market. Well, I was in a medium market. 450 00:21:41,400 --> 00:21:43,480 Speaker 2: It was time to try to reach that big market, 451 00:21:43,520 --> 00:21:46,520 Speaker 2: and honestly, I felt like I don't know if I'm 452 00:21:46,560 --> 00:21:50,199 Speaker 2: good enough. And I was so dreading that process and 453 00:21:50,280 --> 00:21:52,320 Speaker 2: having to send out your tapes. I could never do 454 00:21:52,400 --> 00:21:54,760 Speaker 2: your job, like what you guys have to do to 455 00:21:54,840 --> 00:21:56,919 Speaker 2: audition and like the way you feel like you're on 456 00:21:57,000 --> 00:21:59,919 Speaker 2: the ballot every day. Just the thought of having this 457 00:22:00,040 --> 00:22:02,760 Speaker 2: sent out those tapes in all the rejection. So I 458 00:22:02,840 --> 00:22:04,239 Speaker 2: was like, you know what I'm going to do. It 459 00:22:04,280 --> 00:22:05,920 Speaker 2: wasn't even time to do that. I was like, I'm 460 00:22:05,960 --> 00:22:08,320 Speaker 2: going to take the l SAT, the law school entrance exam, 461 00:22:09,000 --> 00:22:11,320 Speaker 2: and I'll see how I do, and I'll have it 462 00:22:11,359 --> 00:22:13,480 Speaker 2: in my back pocket. So if I can't get a 463 00:22:13,560 --> 00:22:16,719 Speaker 2: job in a bigger market, I can apply to law school. 464 00:22:17,160 --> 00:22:17,480 Speaker 5: I know. 465 00:22:17,600 --> 00:22:19,720 Speaker 2: I was like it was my plan B in a way, 466 00:22:19,800 --> 00:22:20,360 Speaker 2: like if I. 467 00:22:20,480 --> 00:22:23,520 Speaker 4: That's crazy, your plan B is, man, I'm going to 468 00:22:23,560 --> 00:22:24,560 Speaker 4: get a law degree. 469 00:22:24,600 --> 00:22:27,600 Speaker 3: That'll be my plan B. When you nuts, well. 470 00:22:27,440 --> 00:22:30,040 Speaker 2: Here's what's the crazy. This is like such a wild story, 471 00:22:30,640 --> 00:22:32,879 Speaker 2: So I'll let all the deadlines pass. I took the 472 00:22:33,040 --> 00:22:36,160 Speaker 2: L side. It was like December nineteen ninety eight. Everything passed. 473 00:22:36,720 --> 00:22:38,359 Speaker 2: There was no way I was going to law school. 474 00:22:38,680 --> 00:22:41,560 Speaker 2: I got a letter out of the blue in the mail. 475 00:22:41,800 --> 00:22:45,119 Speaker 2: Let's say it was February nineteen ninety nine from Georgetown 476 00:22:45,160 --> 00:22:48,840 Speaker 2: Law saying, the deadlines for applications have expired, but we 477 00:22:48,920 --> 00:22:52,840 Speaker 2: will extend it for you if you apply by March fifteenth. 478 00:22:53,000 --> 00:22:55,600 Speaker 2: And I was like, what is this letter and why 479 00:22:55,640 --> 00:22:58,960 Speaker 2: am I getting it? But I looked at it as like, oh, 480 00:22:59,000 --> 00:23:01,760 Speaker 2: you know, an invitation. So I sent off that application, 481 00:23:02,119 --> 00:23:05,040 Speaker 2: got in two weeks later, and just decided to go. 482 00:23:05,440 --> 00:23:07,240 Speaker 2: You know, I just felt like, this is a door, 483 00:23:07,440 --> 00:23:10,159 Speaker 2: It's my job to walk through it. I'm terrified. I 484 00:23:10,160 --> 00:23:12,680 Speaker 2: don't even know if I'm done with TV. I'm excited 485 00:23:12,680 --> 00:23:14,520 Speaker 2: to go to law school. I'm excited to move across 486 00:23:14,560 --> 00:23:15,840 Speaker 2: the country, go to Georgetown. 487 00:23:15,880 --> 00:23:17,720 Speaker 5: What a dream? And so I went for it. 488 00:23:18,400 --> 00:23:22,879 Speaker 4: And then you pivot back to journalism after huge success 489 00:23:23,080 --> 00:23:25,440 Speaker 4: in Georgetown Law. 490 00:23:25,840 --> 00:23:27,800 Speaker 2: What's wrong with me? Why do I keep blowing up 491 00:23:27,840 --> 00:23:29,080 Speaker 2: perfectly good careers? 492 00:23:29,640 --> 00:23:32,680 Speaker 4: Listen, you could pivot tomorrow and decide you want to 493 00:23:32,760 --> 00:23:33,560 Speaker 4: change careers. 494 00:23:33,960 --> 00:23:36,119 Speaker 2: So I went, you know the long story short. As 495 00:23:36,160 --> 00:23:38,320 Speaker 2: I went to law school, I got a job at 496 00:23:38,320 --> 00:23:41,359 Speaker 2: a law firm. I had this clerkship with a federal judge. 497 00:23:41,400 --> 00:23:44,320 Speaker 2: All lined up, and those in law school. That's a 498 00:23:44,320 --> 00:23:46,240 Speaker 2: big deal. To go work for a federal judge is 499 00:23:46,359 --> 00:23:49,000 Speaker 2: like your path has said, that's your pedigree. Now you're 500 00:23:49,040 --> 00:23:52,040 Speaker 2: like you're on your way. And I was about to 501 00:23:52,920 --> 00:23:54,440 Speaker 2: come work for the judge. It was going to be 502 00:23:54,480 --> 00:23:58,160 Speaker 2: in September, and I had I just I couldn't shake 503 00:23:58,200 --> 00:24:01,560 Speaker 2: the feeling that wasn't really what I wanted. Like this 504 00:24:01,600 --> 00:24:04,280 Speaker 2: whole legal path was there and I liked it, but 505 00:24:04,880 --> 00:24:07,840 Speaker 2: I had this secret dream of wanting to be a 506 00:24:07,920 --> 00:24:09,840 Speaker 2: legal correspondent. I wanted to be on the national news. 507 00:24:09,880 --> 00:24:11,959 Speaker 2: I wanted to make it in the network, you know. 508 00:24:12,280 --> 00:24:16,119 Speaker 2: And that was a very far fetched idea where I 509 00:24:16,240 --> 00:24:18,520 Speaker 2: was sitting in Washington, d C. At a law firm. 510 00:24:18,960 --> 00:24:22,280 Speaker 2: But I decided that if I'm going to do it, 511 00:24:22,320 --> 00:24:24,800 Speaker 2: I can't go. I got to do it now. So 512 00:24:25,040 --> 00:24:28,479 Speaker 2: I called the judge, which this never happens, like you 513 00:24:28,560 --> 00:24:31,800 Speaker 2: don't quit a clerkship before you begin, but I did. 514 00:24:32,480 --> 00:24:35,520 Speaker 2: And he said come in and see me, and I said, 515 00:24:35,600 --> 00:24:37,280 Speaker 2: I tried to explain it to him. Look, I have 516 00:24:37,359 --> 00:24:40,400 Speaker 2: this dream. This is what I meant to do. And 517 00:24:40,440 --> 00:24:44,239 Speaker 2: he said, well, do you have a job offer? And 518 00:24:44,280 --> 00:24:47,520 Speaker 2: I said no, sir, And then he said, well do 519 00:24:47,600 --> 00:24:50,080 Speaker 2: you have any leads or prospects. I mean, why now? 520 00:24:50,720 --> 00:24:53,800 Speaker 2: And I said, no, I have nothing, and he's like, well, 521 00:24:54,000 --> 00:24:55,280 Speaker 2: I get it. You know it's your dream. 522 00:24:55,320 --> 00:24:56,440 Speaker 5: Come why do you come, clerk. 523 00:24:56,440 --> 00:24:57,919 Speaker 2: It's just a year and then you can go do 524 00:24:58,160 --> 00:25:00,280 Speaker 2: I get it, Go chase your dream. Then only going 525 00:25:00,320 --> 00:25:01,600 Speaker 2: to be enhanced by this experience. 526 00:25:01,640 --> 00:25:03,159 Speaker 5: You'll make contacts. Blah blah blah. 527 00:25:03,400 --> 00:25:06,080 Speaker 2: And I said, Judge, I know that you're right, this 528 00:25:06,160 --> 00:25:08,879 Speaker 2: makes perfect sense, but I know myself and if I 529 00:25:08,880 --> 00:25:10,359 Speaker 2: don't do it now, I'm never going to have the 530 00:25:10,359 --> 00:25:14,720 Speaker 2: courage again. And so he just kind of said, Okay. 531 00:25:14,720 --> 00:25:17,080 Speaker 4: I'm glad he didn't go down the ego route of 532 00:25:17,520 --> 00:25:19,640 Speaker 4: telling you you've made a huge mistake and blah blah 533 00:25:19,640 --> 00:25:22,119 Speaker 4: blah he did with me. And what I mean like that, 534 00:25:22,119 --> 00:25:26,240 Speaker 4: that's that's a fair and equitable, a good human. 535 00:25:26,320 --> 00:25:27,840 Speaker 2: And by the way, let's be clear, I kind of 536 00:25:27,920 --> 00:25:30,280 Speaker 2: let him left him in the lurch because now he's 537 00:25:30,280 --> 00:25:33,080 Speaker 2: got a job to fill. These jobs had been filled 538 00:25:33,160 --> 00:25:35,720 Speaker 2: years prior. So he was, he is and was a 539 00:25:35,760 --> 00:25:36,600 Speaker 2: wonderful person. 540 00:25:37,440 --> 00:25:40,359 Speaker 3: You have been with NBC since two thousand and seven. 541 00:25:40,960 --> 00:25:42,120 Speaker 3: That's a long long time. 542 00:25:42,440 --> 00:25:45,159 Speaker 4: Not many people can can say that Yeah, what is 543 00:25:45,240 --> 00:25:49,480 Speaker 4: the most challenging moment for you that you've ever had 544 00:25:49,480 --> 00:25:50,680 Speaker 4: to handle on air? 545 00:25:51,880 --> 00:25:52,360 Speaker 5: Gosh? 546 00:25:52,400 --> 00:25:55,680 Speaker 2: Well, I mean, you know, unfortunately, we've had a few. 547 00:25:55,760 --> 00:25:59,119 Speaker 2: I mean, there have been challenging moments in the news. 548 00:25:59,359 --> 00:26:03,280 Speaker 2: I mean challenge in terms of covering really hard stories, 549 00:26:03,440 --> 00:26:07,440 Speaker 2: really complicated stories, especially in the beginning, you know, when 550 00:26:07,440 --> 00:26:10,800 Speaker 2: I was just starting out. I mean in twenty thirteen, 551 00:26:10,840 --> 00:26:13,880 Speaker 2: I was pretty darn new in the job, and the 552 00:26:13,920 --> 00:26:17,680 Speaker 2: Boston Marathon bombing happened, and four days after that, there 553 00:26:17,760 --> 00:26:19,879 Speaker 2: was you may recall, you know, all through the night 554 00:26:19,920 --> 00:26:23,119 Speaker 2: they found those suspects and they shut down the city 555 00:26:23,160 --> 00:26:26,560 Speaker 2: of Boston, and it was during our era, and I 556 00:26:26,640 --> 00:26:30,320 Speaker 2: just happened to be alone on set that day and 557 00:26:30,640 --> 00:26:34,520 Speaker 2: we anchored for seven hours straight. And that's a moment 558 00:26:34,520 --> 00:26:38,240 Speaker 2: where you have an American city sheltering in place out 559 00:26:38,280 --> 00:26:41,959 Speaker 2: of fear of a terrorist attack and it's you. You know, 560 00:26:42,160 --> 00:26:45,480 Speaker 2: that is a challenging moment on air, like I cannot 561 00:26:45,520 --> 00:26:50,080 Speaker 2: mess this up. We have to have our facts unassailable, 562 00:26:50,320 --> 00:26:52,960 Speaker 2: we have to have the tone be correct. So those 563 00:26:53,119 --> 00:26:55,840 Speaker 2: there are a lot of moments like that, and then, 564 00:26:55,880 --> 00:26:58,560 Speaker 2: of course, you know, I think there have been moments 565 00:26:58,680 --> 00:27:02,640 Speaker 2: ups and downs the network and at the show, and 566 00:27:03,240 --> 00:27:05,680 Speaker 2: those have been hard to you know, those are moments 567 00:27:05,720 --> 00:27:10,000 Speaker 2: that break your heart. And I think what has gotten 568 00:27:10,040 --> 00:27:13,880 Speaker 2: me through is just trying to put my head down 569 00:27:13,880 --> 00:27:16,720 Speaker 2: and do the job and recognize how lucky I am 570 00:27:17,040 --> 00:27:22,920 Speaker 2: to do it. The Today Show is full of beautiful, brilliant, hilarious, 571 00:27:23,400 --> 00:27:26,120 Speaker 2: top of the game people, and it's so much more 572 00:27:26,160 --> 00:27:27,520 Speaker 2: than anyone you see on TV. 573 00:27:27,840 --> 00:27:29,119 Speaker 4: I don't know if you knew this, but there was 574 00:27:29,160 --> 00:27:31,720 Speaker 4: a moment when I was going to literally come in 575 00:27:32,400 --> 00:27:35,480 Speaker 4: and it was it was such an exciting time because 576 00:27:35,520 --> 00:27:37,760 Speaker 4: it was on the Today Show. Yeah, the Today Show. 577 00:27:37,760 --> 00:27:41,680 Speaker 4: So I was co hosting with Willie Geist and we 578 00:27:41,680 --> 00:27:44,480 Speaker 4: were doing the whole whole week and so and it 579 00:27:44,520 --> 00:27:47,400 Speaker 4: was it was just it was in that hour, not 580 00:27:47,440 --> 00:27:49,199 Speaker 4: in the in the earlier hour, but it was in 581 00:27:49,200 --> 00:27:51,320 Speaker 4: the nine o'clock hour, and we had the best time, 582 00:27:51,359 --> 00:27:53,040 Speaker 4: and people were like, oh, this is this is going 583 00:27:53,080 --> 00:27:56,440 Speaker 4: to be great. And then the people in charge called 584 00:27:56,480 --> 00:28:00,080 Speaker 4: my agents. We sat down and they asked if I 585 00:28:00,119 --> 00:28:02,639 Speaker 4: was interested, and I did all the homework and I 586 00:28:02,680 --> 00:28:05,000 Speaker 4: was already and then all of a sudden, someone else 587 00:28:05,119 --> 00:28:07,560 Speaker 4: got someone else was put in that place. 588 00:28:07,720 --> 00:28:09,800 Speaker 2: You would have been great at it. I didn't know 589 00:28:09,880 --> 00:28:11,439 Speaker 2: all that, but you would have been great. And I 590 00:28:11,520 --> 00:28:13,879 Speaker 2: know we love Willie. He's like, I know, he's a 591 00:28:14,320 --> 00:28:14,880 Speaker 2: of yours too. 592 00:28:14,960 --> 00:28:15,240 Speaker 3: God. 593 00:28:15,840 --> 00:28:18,120 Speaker 4: Yeah, it was uh, it was right down to the 594 00:28:18,280 --> 00:28:21,120 Speaker 4: I mean we were in totally go like the whole thing, 595 00:28:21,280 --> 00:28:23,879 Speaker 4: and then all of a sudden they they gave it 596 00:28:23,920 --> 00:28:27,200 Speaker 4: to somebody else and and then that ended up eventually 597 00:28:27,240 --> 00:28:31,400 Speaker 4: not working out. But but it was it was kind 598 00:28:31,400 --> 00:28:33,639 Speaker 4: of crushing, but it was also for me, it was 599 00:28:33,680 --> 00:28:35,960 Speaker 4: like it was I called the show now What? And 600 00:28:36,000 --> 00:28:39,760 Speaker 4: for me that was a now what moment because I thought, Okay, Brook, 601 00:28:40,360 --> 00:28:44,720 Speaker 4: I don't fight being a personality. And I've had many 602 00:28:44,760 --> 00:28:46,840 Speaker 4: now what moments in my life and that that was 603 00:28:46,880 --> 00:28:48,280 Speaker 4: sort of one of them. When it was when I 604 00:28:48,320 --> 00:28:50,400 Speaker 4: was approached to do this and I'm just interested always, 605 00:28:50,400 --> 00:28:53,000 Speaker 4: and then the unexpected things and that just sort of 606 00:28:53,000 --> 00:28:56,640 Speaker 4: pop into our lives, whether they're spiritual or professional or personal. 607 00:28:57,040 --> 00:29:00,680 Speaker 3: And looking back, for you, is there a pivot now 608 00:29:00,720 --> 00:29:01,719 Speaker 3: what moment for you? 609 00:29:02,680 --> 00:29:05,680 Speaker 2: I mean yeah, I mean probably my biggest now whats 610 00:29:05,840 --> 00:29:08,080 Speaker 2: were personal? You know, like I told you when I 611 00:29:08,200 --> 00:29:11,480 Speaker 2: wasn't you know, I found myself divorced at thirty five 612 00:29:11,560 --> 00:29:14,600 Speaker 2: or thirty six, and you know, just like now what 613 00:29:14,640 --> 00:29:15,160 Speaker 2: do I do? 614 00:29:15,440 --> 00:29:17,960 Speaker 5: You know, what about what's going to happen? 615 00:29:18,080 --> 00:29:21,320 Speaker 2: You know, I poured myself into work, and I'm so 616 00:29:21,440 --> 00:29:25,000 Speaker 2: grateful and lucky that it wasn't the end, you know, 617 00:29:25,120 --> 00:29:29,200 Speaker 2: and that there was this wonderful future waiting for me, 618 00:29:29,840 --> 00:29:32,480 Speaker 2: my kids and my family and my husband. Like that's 619 00:29:32,520 --> 00:29:35,360 Speaker 2: the most important thing to me. That is my life's work. 620 00:29:35,400 --> 00:29:37,920 Speaker 2: It's what I care most about. And I always think 621 00:29:37,960 --> 00:29:40,880 Speaker 2: you kind of alluded to this earlier. It's like, yes, 622 00:29:40,960 --> 00:29:44,040 Speaker 2: I probably wished that I could have had kids earlier, 623 00:29:44,080 --> 00:29:46,200 Speaker 2: if I could have written my own script or written 624 00:29:46,200 --> 00:29:49,520 Speaker 2: my own life. But I wouldn't want any other kids 625 00:29:49,520 --> 00:29:52,400 Speaker 2: but Vail and Charlie. I want those babies, and I 626 00:29:52,400 --> 00:29:54,360 Speaker 2: would have waited forever just for them. 627 00:29:54,960 --> 00:29:56,080 Speaker 3: There's always more. 628 00:29:56,240 --> 00:29:59,800 Speaker 4: I mean, I have on an entire platform that I've 629 00:29:59,840 --> 00:30:02,760 Speaker 4: been again, and it's about being in your fifties and 630 00:30:03,000 --> 00:30:04,960 Speaker 4: or forties and up and I'm fifty eight, but like 631 00:30:05,040 --> 00:30:07,880 Speaker 4: being in this era of our lives and realizing there 632 00:30:08,040 --> 00:30:12,600 Speaker 4: is more. Oh, it's the best manifesting it for yourself, 633 00:30:12,640 --> 00:30:15,080 Speaker 4: Like what are you manifesting for yourself? Like what are 634 00:30:15,080 --> 00:30:19,880 Speaker 4: you excited about? And manifesting for yourself in this current future. 635 00:30:20,040 --> 00:30:23,560 Speaker 2: You know what, I daydream all the time about my future, 636 00:30:23,720 --> 00:30:26,240 Speaker 2: and I think of it less in work ways. I 637 00:30:26,280 --> 00:30:28,400 Speaker 2: think of it as I was just thinking about this 638 00:30:28,400 --> 00:30:30,000 Speaker 2: this morning. You know, I used to love to sing 639 00:30:30,040 --> 00:30:33,080 Speaker 2: and play the guitar. I cannot sing a note anymore. 640 00:30:33,200 --> 00:30:36,880 Speaker 2: My voice has gotten even scratchier than ever. But I thought, 641 00:30:36,920 --> 00:30:38,560 Speaker 2: you know what, maybe one day I'll pick up that 642 00:30:38,600 --> 00:30:40,880 Speaker 2: guitar again, and I'll find my voice and I'll sing. 643 00:30:41,320 --> 00:30:44,600 Speaker 2: Let's be clear, I'm not releasing any albums just for me. 644 00:30:45,200 --> 00:30:47,800 Speaker 2: Maybe I'll just sing at my house for me and 645 00:30:47,920 --> 00:30:51,000 Speaker 2: love to write songs. I used to write songs. Maybe 646 00:30:51,320 --> 00:30:53,520 Speaker 2: I love writing. I want to do some writing, you know, 647 00:30:53,600 --> 00:30:57,920 Speaker 2: I just you have to. I like daydreaming about a 648 00:30:58,000 --> 00:31:01,440 Speaker 2: future that has a lot. I want to learn language. 649 00:31:01,680 --> 00:31:03,680 Speaker 2: I want to learn Spanish. I know a little bit 650 00:31:03,680 --> 00:31:05,920 Speaker 2: because I grew up in Tucson, Arizona, you know, forty 651 00:31:05,920 --> 00:31:07,480 Speaker 2: five minutes from the border, so I know a little 652 00:31:07,480 --> 00:31:08,880 Speaker 2: bit of Spanish and took Spanish. 653 00:31:09,120 --> 00:31:11,480 Speaker 5: But that's something I really want to do. 654 00:31:11,560 --> 00:31:14,840 Speaker 2: So that's where what I'm manifesting are things that are 655 00:31:14,920 --> 00:31:20,320 Speaker 2: less about work and more about completing Me and the 656 00:31:20,360 --> 00:31:21,120 Speaker 2: Things I dream of. 657 00:31:25,320 --> 00:31:27,280 Speaker 4: That was Savannah Guthrie, and if you want to hear 658 00:31:27,280 --> 00:31:30,520 Speaker 4: more from her, go watch Today, which airs weekday mornings 659 00:31:30,520 --> 00:31:31,840 Speaker 4: on NBC. 660 00:31:36,000 --> 00:31:36,160 Speaker 5: Now. 661 00:31:36,200 --> 00:31:40,160 Speaker 4: What with Burkeshields is a production of iHeartRadio. Our lead 662 00:31:40,200 --> 00:31:44,440 Speaker 4: producer and wonderful showrunner is Julia Weaver. Additional research and 663 00:31:44,600 --> 00:31:49,200 Speaker 4: editing by Darby Masters and Abu Zafar. Our executive producer 664 00:31:49,560 --> 00:31:53,720 Speaker 4: is Christina Everett. The show is mixed by Bahied Fraser.