1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:03,640 Speaker 1: We're in a new era of American politics. COVID changes 2 00:00:03,720 --> 00:00:06,559 Speaker 1: to mail in balloting and ballot harvesting completely appended the 3 00:00:06,559 --> 00:00:10,560 Speaker 1: political process. The dynamics of elections, the mechanics of elections 4 00:00:10,720 --> 00:00:13,720 Speaker 1: are so different now that historical norms did not apply 5 00:00:13,800 --> 00:00:16,560 Speaker 1: to the midterm elections. So what does that all mean 6 00:00:16,640 --> 00:00:19,520 Speaker 1: moving forward? And with the f behind the Department of 7 00:00:19,640 --> 00:00:23,759 Speaker 1: Justice interfering with the previous presidential elections, can a Republican 8 00:00:23,840 --> 00:00:27,159 Speaker 1: ever win the presidency again? For insight, we turned to 9 00:00:27,200 --> 00:00:29,639 Speaker 1: the former Speaker of the House in New York Times 10 00:00:29,800 --> 00:00:33,839 Speaker 1: best selling author Speaker Nuke Gingrich for his perspective. He's 11 00:00:33,880 --> 00:00:36,159 Speaker 1: also at with a new book, March to the Majority, 12 00:00:36,479 --> 00:00:40,239 Speaker 1: The Real Story of the Republican Revolution. Speaker new Gingrich 13 00:00:40,360 --> 00:00:49,240 Speaker 1: joins us now stay tuned, Speaker Gingridge, it's an honor 14 00:00:49,280 --> 00:00:51,280 Speaker 1: to have you on this show. We are in a 15 00:00:51,400 --> 00:00:55,120 Speaker 1: very strange time, particularly a very strange time politically, so 16 00:00:55,240 --> 00:00:57,319 Speaker 1: I can't wait to get your insight on all of it. 17 00:00:57,480 --> 00:01:00,560 Speaker 2: Well, I think that's right. I can't think of any 18 00:01:00,680 --> 00:01:04,880 Speaker 2: time since maybe eighteen fifty nine, in the period just 19 00:01:04,920 --> 00:01:08,120 Speaker 2: before the Civil War where you had as many different 20 00:01:08,160 --> 00:01:14,319 Speaker 2: things going on from domestic things, cultural things, the Ukraine, 21 00:01:14,920 --> 00:01:19,480 Speaker 2: the challenges in Taiwan. You know, every time you turn around, 22 00:01:19,480 --> 00:01:24,600 Speaker 2: there's something, and there is clearly a whole series of 23 00:01:24,840 --> 00:01:28,840 Speaker 2: just plain dysfunctional behaviors. I mean, you look at what's 24 00:01:28,840 --> 00:01:32,520 Speaker 2: happening in Seattle or in San Francisco, you look at 25 00:01:32,560 --> 00:01:35,120 Speaker 2: the crime rates and places like Chicago and New York. 26 00:01:36,720 --> 00:01:38,520 Speaker 2: It's a time of real turmoil. And yet at the 27 00:01:38,560 --> 00:01:42,440 Speaker 2: same time, we have thousands of channels, we have a 28 00:01:42,560 --> 00:01:46,880 Speaker 2: huge capacity to talk to each other, we have artificial 29 00:01:46,880 --> 00:01:49,960 Speaker 2: intelligence beginning to come online in a serious kind of way, 30 00:01:50,800 --> 00:01:54,720 Speaker 2: and we have people like Elon Musk developing rockets big 31 00:01:54,840 --> 00:01:58,160 Speaker 2: enough and reusable enough that sometime the next four or 32 00:01:58,160 --> 00:02:01,480 Speaker 2: five years we will see the beginning genuine space travel 33 00:02:02,320 --> 00:02:05,240 Speaker 2: for everyday people in a way that has always been 34 00:02:05,280 --> 00:02:08,239 Speaker 2: a fantasy for those of us who love space, but 35 00:02:08,360 --> 00:02:11,400 Speaker 2: for a very long time was impossible. And now it's 36 00:02:11,440 --> 00:02:13,840 Speaker 2: going to suddenly emerge as a great possibility. 37 00:02:14,000 --> 00:02:16,480 Speaker 1: Well, and it also seems, I mean it's very difficult. 38 00:02:16,480 --> 00:02:19,560 Speaker 1: If you look at the midterm elections, historical norms did 39 00:02:19,560 --> 00:02:22,600 Speaker 1: not apply. So we're also in this strange era where 40 00:02:22,639 --> 00:02:25,600 Speaker 1: it's very difficult to truly assess what's actually going on, 41 00:02:25,720 --> 00:02:28,960 Speaker 1: what's going to happen, at least politically. Why do you 42 00:02:29,080 --> 00:02:31,880 Speaker 1: think Republicans fell short in the midterm elections. 43 00:02:32,160 --> 00:02:36,880 Speaker 2: I think for two remarkably different reasons. First, inside the 44 00:02:36,919 --> 00:02:41,119 Speaker 2: traditional political system, they didn't have a strong enough positive message. 45 00:02:41,560 --> 00:02:43,960 Speaker 2: You know, we did when I worked with Reagan in 46 00:02:43,960 --> 00:02:46,840 Speaker 2: the late seventies and early eighties, both as candidate and 47 00:02:46,880 --> 00:02:50,679 Speaker 2: then as president. He was really good at staying focused 48 00:02:50,720 --> 00:02:55,800 Speaker 2: on talking about economic growth, talking about American strength, talking 49 00:02:55,800 --> 00:03:00,440 Speaker 2: about American civic culture, and he made you feel like 50 00:03:00,480 --> 00:03:03,480 Speaker 2: there was something really worth doing. When we did the 51 00:03:03,560 --> 00:03:08,680 Speaker 2: contract in nineteen ninety four, it's entirely positive. It says, 52 00:03:08,720 --> 00:03:11,320 Speaker 2: you know, we're for welfare reform, we're for balancing the budget. 53 00:03:12,000 --> 00:03:14,600 Speaker 2: It wasn't anti Clinton, and if it had been anti Clinton, 54 00:03:14,600 --> 00:03:19,040 Speaker 2: we wouldn't have won a majority. Trump's great strength in 55 00:03:19,080 --> 00:03:22,960 Speaker 2: twenty sixteen was that he wanted to make America greater again, 56 00:03:23,000 --> 00:03:27,360 Speaker 2: and that was a positive. We had no Republican positive thematics. 57 00:03:27,560 --> 00:03:30,120 Speaker 2: That's the first thing. The second thing, though, there's a 58 00:03:30,240 --> 00:03:33,200 Speaker 2: brilliant new study by a professor in New York State 59 00:03:33,919 --> 00:03:37,160 Speaker 2: that looks at the eight states that really were the 60 00:03:37,200 --> 00:03:40,840 Speaker 2: base of the Democrats' survival in twenty twenty two. And 61 00:03:40,960 --> 00:03:44,880 Speaker 2: his real argument is that they are now building machines 62 00:03:44,960 --> 00:03:47,760 Speaker 2: much like the old fashioned Tamany Hall big city machines, 63 00:03:48,280 --> 00:03:52,600 Speaker 2: and their entire model is so different from the Republican 64 00:03:52,680 --> 00:03:58,360 Speaker 2: model that we are only beginning to understand what they've 65 00:03:58,400 --> 00:04:02,120 Speaker 2: been doing. Republicans focus very much on what they call 66 00:04:02,600 --> 00:04:05,720 Speaker 2: high propensity voters, meaning people who are likely to vote. 67 00:04:06,320 --> 00:04:11,360 Speaker 2: The Democrats actually focused very heavily on low propensity voters, 68 00:04:11,560 --> 00:04:15,640 Speaker 2: people who normally don't vote, and they focus on the election. 69 00:04:16,160 --> 00:04:19,680 Speaker 2: Republicans focus on the campaign. So if you do a 70 00:04:19,720 --> 00:04:24,479 Speaker 2: poll of likely voters, you're missing the precisely the people 71 00:04:24,520 --> 00:04:27,440 Speaker 2: the Democrats are going to turn out. And I think 72 00:04:27,480 --> 00:04:29,600 Speaker 2: that has come as there was an enormous shock, I 73 00:04:29,640 --> 00:04:33,440 Speaker 2: would say candidly, Lisa, I was just playing wrong. I 74 00:04:33,480 --> 00:04:36,240 Speaker 2: mean I thought we would make me too, sir, and 75 00:04:36,320 --> 00:04:38,400 Speaker 2: I thought we'd went And I now have a much 76 00:04:38,440 --> 00:04:41,760 Speaker 2: better understanding of just how big the changes are going 77 00:04:41,839 --> 00:04:43,960 Speaker 2: to have to be for us to be able to 78 00:04:43,960 --> 00:04:44,719 Speaker 2: play in that arena. 79 00:04:44,839 --> 00:04:46,320 Speaker 1: And I'm glad you mentioned that because that's what I 80 00:04:46,320 --> 00:04:48,800 Speaker 1: wanted to get into. I mean, the mechanics of elections 81 00:04:48,839 --> 00:04:51,239 Speaker 1: have changed, right, I mean, we saw how they used 82 00:04:51,320 --> 00:04:55,640 Speaker 1: COVID to append elections, you know, mail in balloting, ballot 83 00:04:55,680 --> 00:04:58,839 Speaker 1: harvesting on a scale that we've never seen before. And 84 00:04:58,920 --> 00:05:01,760 Speaker 1: I've worked on campaigns before, and you were able to 85 00:05:01,760 --> 00:05:05,360 Speaker 1: successfully change their trajectory of election even you know, weeks 86 00:05:05,400 --> 00:05:08,039 Speaker 1: out right. You can't do that anymore. I mean we 87 00:05:08,080 --> 00:05:11,000 Speaker 1: saw what the Fetterman race in Pennsylvania, nearly half of 88 00:05:11,080 --> 00:05:13,960 Speaker 1: all mail and ballots had already been sent in, already 89 00:05:14,040 --> 00:05:15,240 Speaker 1: cast before the debate. 90 00:05:15,400 --> 00:05:17,400 Speaker 2: I was born, I was born in Harrisburg, and I 91 00:05:17,920 --> 00:05:19,680 Speaker 2: had a deep interest in that race, and I thought 92 00:05:19,680 --> 00:05:22,760 Speaker 2: that Memodas was a very, very bright guy who would 93 00:05:22,760 --> 00:05:26,360 Speaker 2: have been a good US senator. But because the Republican 94 00:05:26,400 --> 00:05:30,640 Speaker 2: consultants are far too television oriented, where they make a 95 00:05:30,640 --> 00:05:34,360 Speaker 2: lot of their money, and because their model is to 96 00:05:34,400 --> 00:05:38,320 Speaker 2: spend heavily in October, they literally had had something like 97 00:05:38,440 --> 00:05:42,560 Speaker 2: sixty percent of the votes cast before the major Republican 98 00:05:42,600 --> 00:05:47,080 Speaker 2: advertising campaign began. And the Democrats have a totally different model, 99 00:05:47,680 --> 00:05:51,200 Speaker 2: and so we're literally I tell people it's back when 100 00:05:51,680 --> 00:05:55,719 Speaker 2: New Rockney invented the forward pass in football. If you 101 00:05:55,760 --> 00:05:57,280 Speaker 2: were a team that said, you know, I just don't 102 00:05:57,320 --> 00:05:58,880 Speaker 2: like that stuff. I don't think I want to learn 103 00:05:58,880 --> 00:06:00,680 Speaker 2: how to do that, and I'm not going to pay 104 00:06:00,680 --> 00:06:04,240 Speaker 2: attention to it. You'd lose every single game, and so 105 00:06:04,320 --> 00:06:06,800 Speaker 2: people had to adapt to a new set of rules. 106 00:06:07,080 --> 00:06:10,080 Speaker 2: We're in the same business. You know. When I first 107 00:06:10,200 --> 00:06:14,880 Speaker 2: ran in nineteen seventy four, my campaign spent eighty five 108 00:06:14,920 --> 00:06:21,120 Speaker 2: thousand dollars. Nowadays, if I walked into the Congressional Campaign 109 00:06:21,120 --> 00:06:23,480 Speaker 2: Committee and said, Hi, I'm going to run for Congress 110 00:06:23,480 --> 00:06:26,040 Speaker 2: and boy, I'm going to raise eighty five thousand dollars, 111 00:06:26,480 --> 00:06:28,720 Speaker 2: they wouldn't invite me back for coffee. I mean they 112 00:06:28,720 --> 00:06:31,400 Speaker 2: would say, you know, you're just out of a kid. 113 00:06:32,560 --> 00:06:34,800 Speaker 2: So I think it is a different business. It's a 114 00:06:34,839 --> 00:06:38,279 Speaker 2: different world. There are different volumes of money, and the 115 00:06:38,320 --> 00:06:42,040 Speaker 2: Democrats have thought through and I can't say this too strongly, 116 00:06:42,720 --> 00:06:47,040 Speaker 2: they focus on the election. Republicans focus on the campaign, 117 00:06:47,560 --> 00:06:49,720 Speaker 2: and Republicans are going to have to learn to shift 118 00:06:50,120 --> 00:06:51,360 Speaker 2: and focus on the election. 119 00:06:51,560 --> 00:06:53,080 Speaker 1: I one hundred percent agree with you. I mean, we're 120 00:06:53,120 --> 00:06:55,479 Speaker 1: just in this new era of politics, which I think 121 00:06:55,520 --> 00:06:57,800 Speaker 1: is why we all got the midterms wrong, because we 122 00:06:57,800 --> 00:07:01,560 Speaker 1: were applying previous historical norm which are really no longer 123 00:07:01,600 --> 00:07:04,480 Speaker 1: relevant in this new political era that we're in. Speaker, 124 00:07:04,560 --> 00:07:05,919 Speaker 1: you look at the way that the FBI and the 125 00:07:05,920 --> 00:07:09,520 Speaker 1: Department of Justice interfered with both the twenty sixteen presidential 126 00:07:09,520 --> 00:07:13,160 Speaker 1: election and then also the twenty twenty election. Can Republicans 127 00:07:13,400 --> 00:07:17,200 Speaker 1: win again in that environment? When do we really have 128 00:07:17,200 --> 00:07:19,280 Speaker 1: had free infair elections anymore? 129 00:07:19,560 --> 00:07:21,600 Speaker 2: I've always had a rule, and this goes back my 130 00:07:21,720 --> 00:07:26,200 Speaker 2: first real election activity. I dropped out of college for 131 00:07:26,240 --> 00:07:29,440 Speaker 2: a year and ran a congressional campaign in nineteen sixty 132 00:07:29,480 --> 00:07:32,080 Speaker 2: four in North Georgia, actually in the area where the 133 00:07:32,080 --> 00:07:35,840 Speaker 2: movie Deliverance was made. On election day, we discovered that 134 00:07:35,920 --> 00:07:40,320 Speaker 2: forsythe county was not going to count its votes, and 135 00:07:40,400 --> 00:07:42,600 Speaker 2: we were running against the dean of the Georgia delegation. 136 00:07:43,440 --> 00:07:45,800 Speaker 2: We had picked because of my lack of good luck. 137 00:07:45,840 --> 00:07:48,640 Speaker 2: We had picked the only district in Georgia that Goldwater 138 00:07:48,720 --> 00:07:51,240 Speaker 2: lost and then the Johnson carried, so we weren't going 139 00:07:51,280 --> 00:07:54,240 Speaker 2: to beating but they just wanted an insurance policy, so 140 00:07:54,320 --> 00:07:58,200 Speaker 2: they had decided that they would not vote that county 141 00:07:58,280 --> 00:08:01,200 Speaker 2: until after they saw how big the margin was and 142 00:08:01,240 --> 00:08:02,760 Speaker 2: whether or not they had to steal a bunch of 143 00:08:02,840 --> 00:08:06,280 Speaker 2: extra votes. So I was young and naive and innocent. 144 00:08:06,800 --> 00:08:09,360 Speaker 2: I was an Army brat operating in North Georgia in 145 00:08:09,400 --> 00:08:12,960 Speaker 2: a totally different culture. And I called the clerk and 146 00:08:13,000 --> 00:08:17,320 Speaker 2: I said, you know, this is a presidential election. You 147 00:08:17,440 --> 00:08:20,960 Speaker 2: can't go home and not count your votes. And he said, 148 00:08:21,000 --> 00:08:23,680 Speaker 2: well son, he said, first of all, all of my 149 00:08:23,720 --> 00:08:27,200 Speaker 2: folks voted. They worked all day long at the polls. 150 00:08:27,520 --> 00:08:30,720 Speaker 2: They're tired. And I told them to go home and 151 00:08:30,720 --> 00:08:33,559 Speaker 2: have dinner with their families and in the morning, at 152 00:08:33,559 --> 00:08:36,559 Speaker 2: eight o'clock, we're going to get together and have coffee 153 00:08:36,559 --> 00:08:38,480 Speaker 2: and biscuits, and then we're going to count the votes. 154 00:08:38,960 --> 00:08:42,000 Speaker 2: And I said, you can't. That's not legal. You cannot 155 00:08:42,080 --> 00:08:45,000 Speaker 2: do this. And I said, I'm coming over there, and 156 00:08:45,040 --> 00:08:47,840 Speaker 2: he said, he said, I think that'd be terrific. He said, 157 00:08:47,840 --> 00:08:49,880 Speaker 2: I heard a lot about you. I'd love to meet you. 158 00:08:50,920 --> 00:08:53,760 Speaker 2: And my cousin, the sheriff, has a nice place you 159 00:08:53,760 --> 00:08:56,959 Speaker 2: can stay at overnight, and then at eight o'clock tomorrow 160 00:08:57,000 --> 00:09:00,520 Speaker 2: morning you can join us and we'll count the votes. 161 00:09:00,880 --> 00:09:04,959 Speaker 2: I realized then I was hopeless. So ever since then, 162 00:09:05,000 --> 00:09:08,439 Speaker 2: I've had My policy is Republicans have to win by 163 00:09:08,440 --> 00:09:11,360 Speaker 2: a larger margin than the Democrats can steal. You have 164 00:09:11,440 --> 00:09:14,960 Speaker 2: to design your campaign around issues where the country divides 165 00:09:15,040 --> 00:09:18,680 Speaker 2: for you. And we did this in nineteen ninety four. 166 00:09:19,320 --> 00:09:21,880 Speaker 2: Reagan did it in nineteen eighty and again in nineteen 167 00:09:21,920 --> 00:09:25,480 Speaker 2: eighty four, and you know, we beat people like Chairman 168 00:09:25,559 --> 00:09:29,439 Speaker 2: Rostenkowski of the Ways and Means Committee in downtown Chicago 169 00:09:29,480 --> 00:09:31,959 Speaker 2: where people thought it was impossible. But you did that 170 00:09:32,000 --> 00:09:36,280 Speaker 2: by creating a title wave. And we didn't have a 171 00:09:36,320 --> 00:09:41,280 Speaker 2: title wave in twenty twenty two and in a flat year. 172 00:09:41,679 --> 00:09:45,400 Speaker 2: The Democrat machine has huge advantages which I think we 173 00:09:45,480 --> 00:09:49,280 Speaker 2: can nibble out. I think if it'd be very interesting 174 00:09:49,320 --> 00:09:52,000 Speaker 2: to watch us fall in Virginia and Kentucky and Louisiana, 175 00:09:52,320 --> 00:09:55,200 Speaker 2: because you do have Republicans being to shift. And I 176 00:09:55,240 --> 00:09:57,960 Speaker 2: know I talked priestly to Governor Younkin. I know he's 177 00:09:58,280 --> 00:10:01,400 Speaker 2: very committed early voting and very committed to learning the 178 00:10:01,480 --> 00:10:07,800 Speaker 2: last of last year. And I think what the chairman 179 00:10:07,880 --> 00:10:11,320 Speaker 2: of the RNC has said that you know they're going 180 00:10:11,360 --> 00:10:13,959 Speaker 2: to have a bank the vote program of going out 181 00:10:14,000 --> 00:10:16,560 Speaker 2: and getting early votes. Well, if that all starts to 182 00:10:16,559 --> 00:10:19,160 Speaker 2: happen at a minimum, that'll make it harder for the 183 00:10:19,160 --> 00:10:22,440 Speaker 2: Democrats and we'll give us a more fighting chance to win. 184 00:10:22,800 --> 00:10:25,120 Speaker 1: We're going to take a quick commercial break more with 185 00:10:25,200 --> 00:10:30,600 Speaker 1: speaker Nukingridge. Yeah, one thing I worry about. You know 186 00:10:30,600 --> 00:10:33,480 Speaker 1: at the beginning you kind of noted just the chaos. Right, 187 00:10:33,520 --> 00:10:36,560 Speaker 1: there's so many different things, there's so many objects in 188 00:10:36,600 --> 00:10:40,880 Speaker 1: the air. What should Republicans what should the eventual Republican 189 00:10:40,920 --> 00:10:44,160 Speaker 1: nominee focus on? I think almost sometimes it is challenging 190 00:10:44,240 --> 00:10:47,439 Speaker 1: when there is so much, right, it is so convoluted, 191 00:10:47,840 --> 00:10:49,559 Speaker 1: So what should they zero in on. 192 00:10:49,960 --> 00:10:55,720 Speaker 2: We have a program called America's New Majority Project, which 193 00:10:55,720 --> 00:10:58,600 Speaker 2: people can see if they go to America's New Majority 194 00:10:58,640 --> 00:11:02,520 Speaker 2: Project dot com. And we have been polling since twenty eighteen, 195 00:11:02,559 --> 00:11:06,080 Speaker 2: and our goal is to find an American majority, not 196 00:11:06,120 --> 00:11:10,760 Speaker 2: a Republican majority, an American majority. And recently we tested 197 00:11:11,160 --> 00:11:15,199 Speaker 2: you know, Tim Scott, the Republican senator from South Carolina 198 00:11:15,360 --> 00:11:17,840 Speaker 2: who's running for president. He came up with a very 199 00:11:17,920 --> 00:11:21,200 Speaker 2: fine formula where he said, basically, you know, people ought 200 00:11:21,240 --> 00:11:23,839 Speaker 2: to work. If you borrow money, you ought to pay 201 00:11:23,880 --> 00:11:26,679 Speaker 2: your bills. If you're a committed violent crime, you ought 202 00:11:26,679 --> 00:11:30,679 Speaker 2: to be in prison. Men should compete with men in athletics, 203 00:11:31,120 --> 00:11:34,480 Speaker 2: and we need more victors and fewer victims, and so 204 00:11:34,559 --> 00:11:37,560 Speaker 2: we took those five things, put him into a polling question, 205 00:11:38,200 --> 00:11:41,840 Speaker 2: and seventy six percent of the country agreed with them. Now, 206 00:11:42,240 --> 00:11:45,040 Speaker 2: when you get to seventy six percent, you begin to 207 00:11:45,120 --> 00:11:48,480 Speaker 2: have a margin big enough that the other side can't steal. 208 00:11:49,080 --> 00:11:52,280 Speaker 2: And this is a lesson. I first started studying Reagan 209 00:11:52,320 --> 00:11:54,679 Speaker 2: in sixty five, and I began working with him in 210 00:11:54,760 --> 00:11:59,800 Speaker 2: nineteen seventy four. And Reagan's basic model was to find 211 00:11:59,800 --> 00:12:03,760 Speaker 2: an issue that had seventy or eighty percent support, and 212 00:12:03,880 --> 00:12:07,200 Speaker 2: his opponent either had to agree with him and stand 213 00:12:07,200 --> 00:12:10,560 Speaker 2: in his shadow nodding yes, or he had decide with 214 00:12:10,600 --> 00:12:13,480 Speaker 2: the fifteen or twenty percent. And you really saw this 215 00:12:13,520 --> 00:12:18,080 Speaker 2: happen in nineteen eighty four when Walter Mondale and his 216 00:12:18,160 --> 00:12:22,280 Speaker 2: acceptance speech in San Francisco said, the other guy is 217 00:12:22,280 --> 00:12:24,240 Speaker 2: going to raise your taxes, but he won't tell you, 218 00:12:24,800 --> 00:12:27,320 Speaker 2: but I want you to know if you elect me, 219 00:12:27,600 --> 00:12:31,800 Speaker 2: I will raise your taxes. Well, that was like an 220 00:12:31,800 --> 00:12:35,920 Speaker 2: eighty to ten issue. It was suicide. I was in 221 00:12:35,960 --> 00:12:38,960 Speaker 2: San Francisco at the time helping run sort of an 222 00:12:39,040 --> 00:12:44,480 Speaker 2: alternative Republican messaging project. We closed down our press briefings 223 00:12:44,640 --> 00:12:47,040 Speaker 2: because we didn't want to get between Mondale and the 224 00:12:47,120 --> 00:12:50,720 Speaker 2: news media on the grounds of Woodrow Wilson had once said, 225 00:12:51,120 --> 00:12:53,240 Speaker 2: you should never murder a man who's in the process 226 00:12:53,280 --> 00:12:57,240 Speaker 2: of committing suicide, and you know, it was just crazy. 227 00:12:57,400 --> 00:13:00,679 Speaker 2: So I think when we did welfare reform, ninety two 228 00:13:00,720 --> 00:13:04,319 Speaker 2: percent of the country wanted welfare reform. The system wasn't working, 229 00:13:04,840 --> 00:13:06,640 Speaker 2: and they wanted people to go back to work. They 230 00:13:06,640 --> 00:13:09,320 Speaker 2: were against dependency, and they thought it was bad for 231 00:13:09,360 --> 00:13:12,840 Speaker 2: the children to have parents who didn't do anything. And so, 232 00:13:13,520 --> 00:13:14,840 Speaker 2: you know, we knew we were going to win that 233 00:13:14,880 --> 00:13:18,040 Speaker 2: fight because at ninety two percent, there's not enough oxygen 234 00:13:18,120 --> 00:13:19,520 Speaker 2: left for your opponent to survive. 235 00:13:19,760 --> 00:13:21,679 Speaker 1: I guess one challenge is, you know, it does look 236 00:13:21,760 --> 00:13:24,000 Speaker 1: like I mean there you know, there's a lifetime in 237 00:13:24,040 --> 00:13:27,240 Speaker 1: politics before the presidential election, as we both know, but 238 00:13:27,240 --> 00:13:30,040 Speaker 1: it does. You know, Trump is up pretty significantly in 239 00:13:30,080 --> 00:13:32,720 Speaker 1: the polls. They're they're obviously trying to send him to 240 00:13:32,800 --> 00:13:35,600 Speaker 1: jail and to convict him on multiple arenas in different 241 00:13:35,600 --> 00:13:38,720 Speaker 1: states as well as federal How do you win in 242 00:13:38,760 --> 00:13:42,480 Speaker 1: that environment If the eventual nominee is you know, potentially 243 00:13:42,800 --> 00:13:46,520 Speaker 1: convicted in various arenas, how do you actually focus on 244 00:13:46,559 --> 00:13:48,920 Speaker 1: all this thrill stuff that Americans care about. When that's 245 00:13:48,960 --> 00:13:50,720 Speaker 1: going to suck up all the oxygen. 246 00:13:50,800 --> 00:13:53,720 Speaker 2: Well, I mean, what they are doing in a way 247 00:13:53,800 --> 00:13:58,000 Speaker 2: that's just crazy, is they're turning Donald Trump into Nelson Mandela. 248 00:13:58,240 --> 00:14:01,920 Speaker 2: You know, Mandela spent nineteen years in prison. He was 249 00:14:01,960 --> 00:14:05,440 Speaker 2: in isolation, and when he came out of prison, he 250 00:14:05,600 --> 00:14:08,600 Speaker 2: was stronger than when he was first arrested. You have 251 00:14:08,640 --> 00:14:11,400 Speaker 2: other examples in the modern era. I mean Alexander Soshanitson, 252 00:14:11,440 --> 00:14:14,560 Speaker 2: for example, who went to the goolag and became the 253 00:14:14,600 --> 00:14:19,600 Speaker 2: greatest writer in modern Russia. This idea that your political 254 00:14:19,640 --> 00:14:22,440 Speaker 2: opponent is going to try to use the power of 255 00:14:22,480 --> 00:14:26,000 Speaker 2: the government to crush you because they're afraid that the 256 00:14:26,040 --> 00:14:31,600 Speaker 2: American people might reelect you is so totally anathetical to 257 00:14:31,640 --> 00:14:35,320 Speaker 2: the American experience, and particularly when you look at how 258 00:14:35,440 --> 00:14:39,280 Speaker 2: the FBI and the Justice Department treated Hillary Clinton, you 259 00:14:39,280 --> 00:14:42,320 Speaker 2: look at how they've been treating Hunter Biden, You look 260 00:14:42,360 --> 00:14:44,160 Speaker 2: at the evidence that comes out more and more that 261 00:14:44,240 --> 00:14:47,360 Speaker 2: the entire Russia hoax thing the FBI knew was a 262 00:14:47,400 --> 00:14:50,960 Speaker 2: lie and that they broke the law, and you realize 263 00:14:50,960 --> 00:14:52,720 Speaker 2: that none of the people who broke the law have 264 00:14:52,840 --> 00:14:56,800 Speaker 2: been punished and I think that what you're seeing happen 265 00:14:56,960 --> 00:15:01,080 Speaker 2: is for forty five or fifty two percent of the country, 266 00:15:01,760 --> 00:15:05,600 Speaker 2: they have now bonded with Trump so decisively because they 267 00:15:05,680 --> 00:15:09,520 Speaker 2: see the alternative being corruption and dishonesty and a threat 268 00:15:09,560 --> 00:15:13,880 Speaker 2: to their liberty. And at the same time, there's another 269 00:15:13,960 --> 00:15:17,440 Speaker 2: probably fifteen to twenty percent that aren't happy with Trump 270 00:15:17,480 --> 00:15:20,360 Speaker 2: because of the degree to which sometimes he just makes 271 00:15:20,440 --> 00:15:24,200 Speaker 2: noise and does things that don't make sense. But they're 272 00:15:24,240 --> 00:15:27,120 Speaker 2: also unhappy. I mean, I think the Biden base could 273 00:15:27,320 --> 00:15:32,680 Speaker 2: pretty rapidly shrink to thirty five percent. And the Democrats 274 00:15:32,680 --> 00:15:34,760 Speaker 2: have this problem that, first of all, when you have 275 00:15:34,760 --> 00:15:38,600 Speaker 2: a president who spends trillions of dollars, it's almost impossible 276 00:15:38,640 --> 00:15:42,040 Speaker 2: to beat him inside his own primary. I mean, Teddy 277 00:15:42,080 --> 00:15:45,440 Speaker 2: Kennedy could not be Jimmy Carter, Ronald Reagan couldn't beat 278 00:15:45,480 --> 00:15:51,040 Speaker 2: Gerald Ford. It's just, you know, inside their own little universe, 279 00:15:51,280 --> 00:15:55,280 Speaker 2: they just have too many levers of power. They probably 280 00:15:55,320 --> 00:16:00,560 Speaker 2: can't get rid of Kamala Harris, no matter how totally 281 00:16:00,560 --> 00:16:04,440 Speaker 2: incompetent she looks. So the Democrats have this problem that 282 00:16:04,480 --> 00:16:08,720 Speaker 2: they're probably stuck with the Biden Harris ticket at a 283 00:16:08,760 --> 00:16:11,640 Speaker 2: time that the American people think that they are less 284 00:16:11,680 --> 00:16:14,360 Speaker 2: and less competent and are beginning to think that they're 285 00:16:14,360 --> 00:16:16,440 Speaker 2: more and more corrupt. I mean, I just talked to 286 00:16:16,480 --> 00:16:19,720 Speaker 2: a pollster this afternoon and said, I think fifty three 287 00:16:19,760 --> 00:16:24,360 Speaker 2: percent of the country now believes that that Biden took bribes. Well, 288 00:16:25,040 --> 00:16:28,280 Speaker 2: you know, that's beginning to move in a direction that's 289 00:16:28,400 --> 00:16:29,560 Speaker 2: very dangerous for Biden. 290 00:16:29,720 --> 00:16:32,920 Speaker 1: We view what they're doing to Trump as corrupt. I mean, 291 00:16:32,960 --> 00:16:34,960 Speaker 1: we see the government for what it is and the 292 00:16:34,960 --> 00:16:38,040 Speaker 1: corruption inside the government. But you have to win independence 293 00:16:38,120 --> 00:16:40,840 Speaker 1: in a general election, as you know, and can Trump 294 00:16:40,880 --> 00:16:41,200 Speaker 1: do that? 295 00:16:41,400 --> 00:16:44,080 Speaker 2: Well, I think we'll find out. I mean, my personal 296 00:16:44,200 --> 00:16:47,400 Speaker 2: guess is It's going to be virtually impossible to stop 297 00:16:47,400 --> 00:16:50,040 Speaker 2: Trump from becoming the nominee. And I think that one 298 00:16:50,080 --> 00:16:53,920 Speaker 2: of the most amazing phenomena, which I don't understand frankly, 299 00:16:54,680 --> 00:16:56,760 Speaker 2: has been watching Governor de Santas, So, as you know, 300 00:16:57,240 --> 00:17:01,360 Speaker 2: has been a great governor of Florid, just markably good leader. 301 00:17:01,960 --> 00:17:06,439 Speaker 2: But his presidential campaign has been just a totally different 302 00:17:06,520 --> 00:17:10,440 Speaker 2: kind of project, and he's actually lost ground now for 303 00:17:10,480 --> 00:17:13,520 Speaker 2: about four months. So you start with the idea that 304 00:17:13,520 --> 00:17:18,119 Speaker 2: the general election could be Trump versus Biden, it's the 305 00:17:18,160 --> 00:17:21,200 Speaker 2: most likely general election. You start with the likelihood that 306 00:17:21,240 --> 00:17:24,119 Speaker 2: the economy will not be better. You start with the 307 00:17:24,200 --> 00:17:28,160 Speaker 2: likelihood that the corruption and dishonesty and illegality will continue 308 00:17:28,200 --> 00:17:30,720 Speaker 2: to roll out, We'll learn more and more stuff, It'll 309 00:17:30,800 --> 00:17:33,800 Speaker 2: be sicker and sicker, and that where you've lived in 310 00:17:33,840 --> 00:17:35,840 Speaker 2: a very dangerous world, and I think we have to 311 00:17:35,880 --> 00:17:38,320 Speaker 2: worry about that. And the crime rate's not going to 312 00:17:38,359 --> 00:17:42,680 Speaker 2: come down particularly, and the number of illegal immigrants is staggering, 313 00:17:43,480 --> 00:17:46,320 Speaker 2: and people are going to be under realized just the 314 00:17:46,320 --> 00:17:49,320 Speaker 2: scale of the cost of having millions of people here illegally, 315 00:17:49,880 --> 00:17:53,520 Speaker 2: and the impact on things like fentanyl and drug overdoes. 316 00:17:53,760 --> 00:17:57,879 Speaker 2: So I mean, I think, I think it's possible that 317 00:17:57,920 --> 00:18:00,720 Speaker 2: Trump could win, And it's possible Trump could win surprisingly 318 00:18:00,800 --> 00:18:03,800 Speaker 2: big margin that that doesn't mean it's inevitable. But I 319 00:18:03,800 --> 00:18:05,639 Speaker 2: don't know if you saw go to NBC, but I 320 00:18:05,680 --> 00:18:10,120 Speaker 2: was actually surprised this was on NBC. NBC showed Trump 321 00:18:10,200 --> 00:18:14,560 Speaker 2: going into a dairy queen in Iowa and ordering blizzards, 322 00:18:16,160 --> 00:18:20,520 Speaker 2: the reaction of that crowd to him just walking in 323 00:18:20,600 --> 00:18:25,480 Speaker 2: the door, and then his his easiness being in a 324 00:18:25,560 --> 00:18:28,480 Speaker 2: fast food place, and she stopped me. Compare that to 325 00:18:28,560 --> 00:18:32,679 Speaker 2: John Carey's you know, windsurfing. Oh, you begin to realize 326 00:18:32,680 --> 00:18:35,160 Speaker 2: that this is a This isn't a guy who's very 327 00:18:35,200 --> 00:18:40,000 Speaker 2: formidable and maybe the best campaigner in the Republican Party 328 00:18:40,520 --> 00:18:44,000 Speaker 2: since Reagan. Uh So, I would think that he has 329 00:18:44,040 --> 00:18:45,960 Speaker 2: at least an even money chance of winning if he 330 00:18:46,000 --> 00:18:46,920 Speaker 2: becomes the nominee. 331 00:18:47,000 --> 00:18:49,280 Speaker 1: You mentioned Governor de Santas, who you know who? I 332 00:18:49,320 --> 00:18:52,280 Speaker 1: love RDA. I'm a Floridian and he's a tremendous governor, 333 00:18:52,480 --> 00:18:54,919 Speaker 1: like the best governor in the country. Why do you 334 00:18:54,960 --> 00:18:57,600 Speaker 1: think he hasn't picked up more steam? Is it just 335 00:18:57,680 --> 00:18:59,880 Speaker 1: early or why do you think that hasn't happened? 336 00:19:00,760 --> 00:19:05,399 Speaker 2: Well, I mean, look, I have great admiration for what 337 00:19:05,520 --> 00:19:07,600 Speaker 2: he has done in Florida, and I think he has 338 00:19:07,680 --> 00:19:13,560 Speaker 2: been a remarkably effective governor. And I've been surprised. I mean, 339 00:19:13,600 --> 00:19:16,760 Speaker 2: I would say, having once tried to run for president 340 00:19:16,880 --> 00:19:19,960 Speaker 2: myself and discovered that Mitt Romney had a lot more 341 00:19:19,960 --> 00:19:22,520 Speaker 2: money than I did, and I just I could in 342 00:19:22,560 --> 00:19:24,359 Speaker 2: the end, I couldn't compete. In fact, Florida was one 343 00:19:24,400 --> 00:19:26,240 Speaker 2: of the places where he finally beat me, because, as 344 00:19:26,280 --> 00:19:28,280 Speaker 2: you know, it's a very big state. 345 00:19:28,560 --> 00:19:29,359 Speaker 1: A very big state. 346 00:19:29,880 --> 00:19:32,159 Speaker 2: He out spent me by about fifteen million to a 347 00:19:32,160 --> 00:19:34,240 Speaker 2: million and had the kind of results you think you 348 00:19:34,359 --> 00:19:37,760 Speaker 2: probably get when you're outspent fifteen to one. But so 349 00:19:37,920 --> 00:19:41,600 Speaker 2: I've had some experience though presidential campaigns. I think there 350 00:19:41,600 --> 00:19:46,400 Speaker 2: are two things that happened. One was that his consultants 351 00:19:46,440 --> 00:19:49,639 Speaker 2: had this, I think nutty idea that they were going 352 00:19:49,680 --> 00:19:52,160 Speaker 2: to run to the right of Trump. And the reason 353 00:19:52,200 --> 00:19:56,240 Speaker 2: that's a nutty idea is most of the anti Trump 354 00:19:56,280 --> 00:20:00,000 Speaker 2: Republicans are in fact more moderate than Trump, not more 355 00:20:00,119 --> 00:20:03,800 Speaker 2: or conservative. In a way, de Santus by running to 356 00:20:03,800 --> 00:20:10,919 Speaker 2: Trump's right created a space for people like Tim Scott, 357 00:20:10,680 --> 00:20:16,920 Speaker 2: one of my favorite people is I'm going to mispronounce 358 00:20:16,960 --> 00:20:24,879 Speaker 2: his name, vive Ramaswami, who's rising in the polls. And 359 00:20:25,280 --> 00:20:28,199 Speaker 2: there's a space there all of a sudden for people 360 00:20:28,240 --> 00:20:33,679 Speaker 2: who are interesting and different, and there's a place to 361 00:20:33,760 --> 00:20:37,159 Speaker 2: park your support if you're not happy with Trump but 362 00:20:37,200 --> 00:20:41,440 Speaker 2: you're disappointed the sentence. The second thing I think they 363 00:20:41,480 --> 00:20:46,360 Speaker 2: did is to run for president, you need to somehow 364 00:20:46,440 --> 00:20:50,080 Speaker 2: be presidential. You need to feel like you're ready to 365 00:20:50,320 --> 00:20:53,320 Speaker 2: lead the country, and you need to have a message 366 00:20:54,240 --> 00:20:58,560 Speaker 2: which leads people to pay attention. When Trump came out 367 00:20:58,560 --> 00:21:01,920 Speaker 2: of nowhere as a businessman and began talking about making 368 00:21:01,960 --> 00:21:05,040 Speaker 2: America great again. I think the news media thought it 369 00:21:05,080 --> 00:21:07,720 Speaker 2: was a joke, but the Republican base thought it was 370 00:21:07,720 --> 00:21:11,080 Speaker 2: what they believed. And so he had something he could 371 00:21:11,160 --> 00:21:15,560 Speaker 2: say that gave him a uniqueness and a popularity that 372 00:21:15,760 --> 00:21:20,399 Speaker 2: was very powerful. If you watched Obama in two thousand 373 00:21:20,440 --> 00:21:23,320 Speaker 2: and eight, he passed Hillary in part by having a 374 00:21:23,480 --> 00:21:26,520 Speaker 2: very positive message in which he was going to somehow 375 00:21:26,560 --> 00:21:29,359 Speaker 2: bring us together turn it govern that way. But his 376 00:21:29,520 --> 00:21:34,160 Speaker 2: message was a very positive reform message in real contrast 377 00:21:34,160 --> 00:21:38,000 Speaker 2: to Hillary. So I think what Dessantus should have done 378 00:21:38,800 --> 00:21:42,360 Speaker 2: was figured out a big enough cause and a big 379 00:21:42,480 --> 00:21:47,760 Speaker 2: enough message that it transcended normal politics. And when he 380 00:21:47,840 --> 00:21:50,639 Speaker 2: didn't do that, he shrank. Now, the other thing that 381 00:21:50,680 --> 00:21:54,119 Speaker 2: happened to be honest is Susie Wiles is probably the 382 00:21:54,119 --> 00:21:58,880 Speaker 2: most important single person in the Trump operation. Susie Wiles 383 00:21:58,880 --> 00:22:07,480 Speaker 2: had helped manage DeSantis is two thousand eighteen victory, and 384 00:22:07,520 --> 00:22:10,919 Speaker 2: then they had a falling out. It got apparently to 385 00:22:10,960 --> 00:22:14,880 Speaker 2: be very personal and very bitter. And so I mean, 386 00:22:14,920 --> 00:22:20,399 Speaker 2: she knows dissentis she knows his weaknesses. She's a Floridian 387 00:22:21,320 --> 00:22:27,000 Speaker 2: and they have run the Trump people, and I give 388 00:22:27,040 --> 00:22:29,320 Speaker 2: a fair amount of credit for List T SUSI. The 389 00:22:29,400 --> 00:22:34,399 Speaker 2: Trump people have run a brilliantly negative campaign undermining and 390 00:22:34,440 --> 00:22:38,480 Speaker 2: weakening Dissentis, and it's worked. I mean, it's just there's 391 00:22:38,520 --> 00:22:41,320 Speaker 2: no question. If you look at where he was four 392 00:22:41,359 --> 00:22:43,840 Speaker 2: months ago and where he is right now, he is 393 00:22:43,880 --> 00:22:48,119 Speaker 2: about ten to fifteen points weaker and Trump is about 394 00:22:48,160 --> 00:22:51,640 Speaker 2: five points stronger. And that's the opposite direction from where 395 00:22:51,680 --> 00:22:54,080 Speaker 2: they wanted to go when he first announced. 396 00:22:54,359 --> 00:22:57,800 Speaker 1: I personally believe that Dissantis would actually be a better 397 00:22:57,840 --> 00:23:00,840 Speaker 1: president in terms of executing. He's much more more methodical. 398 00:23:00,880 --> 00:23:03,440 Speaker 1: He's much more disciplined. Like I believe that he would 399 00:23:03,440 --> 00:23:05,200 Speaker 1: be able to go in and break up the Department, 400 00:23:05,240 --> 00:23:07,520 Speaker 1: you know, break or break up the FBI, break up 401 00:23:07,520 --> 00:23:09,719 Speaker 1: the deep state in a more effective and long lasting 402 00:23:09,760 --> 00:23:12,880 Speaker 1: way than Trump is able to do. He's just more undisciplined. 403 00:23:13,400 --> 00:23:15,720 Speaker 1: But you know, you have to win the nomination to 404 00:23:15,760 --> 00:23:18,600 Speaker 1: get there, right, and that might not ending up being 405 00:23:18,640 --> 00:23:20,320 Speaker 1: the case. But I do think he would be a 406 00:23:20,359 --> 00:23:23,919 Speaker 1: more effective president in creating long lasting change as opposed 407 00:23:23,920 --> 00:23:26,000 Speaker 1: to you know, executive orders that get turned over when 408 00:23:26,119 --> 00:23:27,800 Speaker 1: you know, we get the next Democrat. But I mean, 409 00:23:27,880 --> 00:23:29,639 Speaker 1: I think Trump did a lot of amazing things that 410 00:23:29,800 --> 00:23:32,800 Speaker 1: just DeSantis is more disciplined. But you know, it doesn't 411 00:23:32,800 --> 00:23:34,520 Speaker 1: matter if you don't win. So we'll, you know, we'll 412 00:23:34,520 --> 00:23:36,399 Speaker 1: see what inevitably happens. 413 00:23:36,560 --> 00:23:39,040 Speaker 2: But as you said earlier, there's still a long campaign 414 00:23:39,080 --> 00:23:41,399 Speaker 2: ahead of us. I mean, we don't we don't know 415 00:23:41,480 --> 00:23:43,360 Speaker 2: what's going to happen in Iowa. We don't know what's 416 00:23:43,400 --> 00:23:46,639 Speaker 2: going to happen in New Hampshire, you know, And the 417 00:23:46,760 --> 00:23:48,800 Speaker 2: Santus is not out of the game at this point. 418 00:23:49,760 --> 00:23:52,159 Speaker 2: It's just it's the third quarter. If I can use 419 00:23:52,160 --> 00:23:54,960 Speaker 2: a football knowlogy, it's the third quarter and he's down 420 00:23:55,000 --> 00:23:58,360 Speaker 2: three touchdowns. But I've seen great teams that came back 421 00:23:58,359 --> 00:24:02,720 Speaker 2: from that with kind of stunning finales and one in 422 00:24:02,760 --> 00:24:05,000 Speaker 2: the last minute of the game. So who knows. 423 00:24:05,240 --> 00:24:06,879 Speaker 1: But to your point, I see in the sense that 424 00:24:06,920 --> 00:24:08,840 Speaker 1: you know, Trump is very good at I mean, he's 425 00:24:08,880 --> 00:24:11,040 Speaker 1: also good at alienating people, but you know, he's very 426 00:24:11,080 --> 00:24:14,199 Speaker 1: good at just going out and talking to people and 427 00:24:14,240 --> 00:24:18,520 Speaker 1: being among the people and you know, and letting people 428 00:24:18,560 --> 00:24:20,439 Speaker 1: know that you know, he cares about them and he 429 00:24:20,480 --> 00:24:23,600 Speaker 1: gets them. So he's a he's a good retail politician 430 00:24:23,640 --> 00:24:26,119 Speaker 1: in a way that we haven't seen for a Republican 431 00:24:27,040 --> 00:24:29,600 Speaker 1: at least probably in my lifetime that I remember I 432 00:24:29,600 --> 00:24:32,160 Speaker 1: wanted to get into the Biden corruptions scandals. 433 00:24:32,480 --> 00:24:32,639 Speaker 2: You know. 434 00:24:32,720 --> 00:24:35,520 Speaker 1: One concern I have is that there's so many different 435 00:24:35,600 --> 00:24:38,240 Speaker 1: layers to it that in some way it might be 436 00:24:38,280 --> 00:24:40,800 Speaker 1: too complex to message, or at least the way that 437 00:24:40,800 --> 00:24:44,320 Speaker 1: they're messaging it is too complex. Do you think voters 438 00:24:44,359 --> 00:24:48,439 Speaker 1: inevitably are going to care this election cycle or have 439 00:24:48,520 --> 00:24:51,400 Speaker 1: they just basically chalked it up to, oh, every politician 440 00:24:51,480 --> 00:24:53,520 Speaker 1: is corrupt at this point, Like will it have an 441 00:24:53,520 --> 00:24:54,560 Speaker 1: impact on the electorate? 442 00:24:54,800 --> 00:24:59,560 Speaker 2: I think it depends on the House Republicans and what 443 00:24:59,600 --> 00:25:02,840 Speaker 2: they can prove beyond a shadow of a doubt and 444 00:25:02,880 --> 00:25:05,040 Speaker 2: how well they can articulate it. And I agree with you, 445 00:25:05,200 --> 00:25:08,840 Speaker 2: I find that there are too many moving parts. It's 446 00:25:08,880 --> 00:25:13,679 Speaker 2: actually two parallel and very different investigations. One is the 447 00:25:13,720 --> 00:25:18,200 Speaker 2: Biden family and the other is the executive branch's corrupt 448 00:25:18,200 --> 00:25:22,560 Speaker 2: efforts to protect the Biden family. But they're actually very separate. 449 00:25:22,560 --> 00:25:25,600 Speaker 2: They're not the same issue, and when you bring them 450 00:25:25,600 --> 00:25:28,199 Speaker 2: together and you mix them together, it just gets to 451 00:25:28,240 --> 00:25:31,399 Speaker 2: be too hard. So the question will be in the 452 00:25:31,480 --> 00:25:34,800 Speaker 2: next five or six months. Can they, in fact produce 453 00:25:35,240 --> 00:25:39,880 Speaker 2: information that is so compelling that it's clear the Bidens 454 00:25:39,880 --> 00:25:44,080 Speaker 2: are corrupt, and can they communicate it in a way 455 00:25:44,240 --> 00:25:47,600 Speaker 2: that everyday Americans can understand it. I think the first 456 00:25:47,640 --> 00:25:50,359 Speaker 2: reaction is to shrug it off on the grounds that 457 00:25:50,400 --> 00:25:54,199 Speaker 2: all politicians are corrupt. I think, you know, something like 458 00:25:54,760 --> 00:25:57,080 Speaker 2: the poster I talked to today said, you know that 459 00:25:57,440 --> 00:25:59,399 Speaker 2: fifty three percent of the country now thinks that the 460 00:25:59,400 --> 00:26:02,960 Speaker 2: Bidens accepted bribes, but about fifty percent of the country 461 00:26:03,000 --> 00:26:05,760 Speaker 2: things they all do, and so that's kind of a 462 00:26:05,800 --> 00:26:09,159 Speaker 2: shrugging effect. Fact, I had a friend who used to 463 00:26:09,200 --> 00:26:12,480 Speaker 2: advise me, and I was very big on the ethics 464 00:26:12,480 --> 00:26:16,040 Speaker 2: issues and thought they really mattered in preserving the country. 465 00:26:16,440 --> 00:26:18,959 Speaker 2: And he came from Illinois, where they'd had four consecutive 466 00:26:18,960 --> 00:26:22,840 Speaker 2: governors go to jail. He said, you know, our experience 467 00:26:22,840 --> 00:26:27,639 Speaker 2: in Illinois is that the one governor out of six 468 00:26:28,000 --> 00:26:30,520 Speaker 2: that didn't go to jail was the anomaly. He was 469 00:26:30,520 --> 00:26:35,760 Speaker 2: actually an honest man. Fun So there it was kind 470 00:26:35,760 --> 00:26:38,760 Speaker 2: of like that what makes this different. There are two 471 00:26:38,800 --> 00:26:43,760 Speaker 2: things that make this different. One is how really blatant. 472 00:26:44,359 --> 00:26:47,879 Speaker 2: The difference is between how the Justice Department treats Trump 473 00:26:48,400 --> 00:26:51,760 Speaker 2: and how they treated Hillary Clinton and Hunter Byden and 474 00:26:51,800 --> 00:26:53,879 Speaker 2: I think that sinks in in a way that is 475 00:26:54,160 --> 00:26:58,399 Speaker 2: very alienating and corrosi for the Justice Department and for 476 00:26:58,440 --> 00:27:03,520 Speaker 2: the FBI. The other thing is that this all involves 477 00:27:03,560 --> 00:27:09,920 Speaker 2: foreign money. This isn't you know, your local rich guy 478 00:27:10,000 --> 00:27:17,160 Speaker 2: down the street handing you a check. This is Romania, Ukraine, Kazakhstan, Russia, 479 00:27:17,440 --> 00:27:21,200 Speaker 2: and China. And when you start saying, gee, I wonder 480 00:27:21,400 --> 00:27:24,120 Speaker 2: why a guy who was a drug addict and an 481 00:27:24,119 --> 00:27:30,480 Speaker 2: alcoholic and incompetent was so attractive that in five different dictatorships. 482 00:27:32,359 --> 00:27:34,919 Speaker 2: Ukraine at the time wasn't a dictatorship. It was considered 483 00:27:34,920 --> 00:27:37,119 Speaker 2: one of the most corrupt countries in the world. In 484 00:27:37,160 --> 00:27:40,760 Speaker 2: five different foreign countries, people decided they wanted to shovel 485 00:27:40,800 --> 00:27:44,680 Speaker 2: money to him. And of course, the average American is 486 00:27:44,720 --> 00:27:47,040 Speaker 2: going to figure out pretty really. You know, if his 487 00:27:47,160 --> 00:27:50,000 Speaker 2: name had been Hunter Jones, he wouldn't have gotten a penny. 488 00:27:50,160 --> 00:27:52,439 Speaker 1: And he'd also be in jail right now, you know, 489 00:27:52,760 --> 00:27:55,639 Speaker 1: on the federal gun charge alone, right we would be 490 00:27:55,760 --> 00:27:58,199 Speaker 1: in jail, especially because we're Republican. 491 00:27:58,600 --> 00:28:01,080 Speaker 2: Well, somebody told me, I've got to validate this, but 492 00:28:01,160 --> 00:28:05,760 Speaker 2: somebody told me two days ago that the Internal Revenue 493 00:28:05,800 --> 00:28:11,520 Speaker 2: Service had avoided charging Biden Hunter Biden on taxes until 494 00:28:11,680 --> 00:28:15,800 Speaker 2: the statute of limitation ran out on the biggest amounts 495 00:28:15,840 --> 00:28:19,159 Speaker 2: they had not paid. Gosh, you realize how much they 496 00:28:19,200 --> 00:28:21,479 Speaker 2: were bending over, just as they did with Hillary Clinton, 497 00:28:21,840 --> 00:28:25,080 Speaker 2: to avoid what you would normally have happened to you 498 00:28:25,119 --> 00:28:26,280 Speaker 2: if you were a normal person. 499 00:28:26,560 --> 00:28:28,480 Speaker 1: That's a part that makes me sick, is just the 500 00:28:28,640 --> 00:28:31,200 Speaker 1: unfairness of it. It's just, you know, it's un American, 501 00:28:31,280 --> 00:28:33,199 Speaker 1: and you know, does feel like we're going in the 502 00:28:33,200 --> 00:28:36,960 Speaker 1: direction of you know, authoritarian countries. And the messaging part. 503 00:28:37,240 --> 00:28:39,360 Speaker 1: I recalled this time when I was just getting started 504 00:28:39,360 --> 00:28:42,520 Speaker 1: in television, which you'll think this is hilarious. I was 505 00:28:42,520 --> 00:28:44,560 Speaker 1: on with lou Daubs and I was trying to explain 506 00:28:44,600 --> 00:28:49,360 Speaker 1: the appropriations process and he goes speaker, He goes, Lisa, 507 00:28:49,520 --> 00:28:52,000 Speaker 1: do you think that the viewer's eyes are glazed over 508 00:28:52,120 --> 00:28:52,480 Speaker 1: right now? 509 00:28:53,200 --> 00:28:56,720 Speaker 2: Yeah? Well, you know when I did this this recent 510 00:28:56,760 --> 00:29:00,600 Speaker 2: book on March to the Majority, which is about how 511 00:29:00,640 --> 00:29:04,920 Speaker 2: we spent sixteen years creating the first Republican majority in 512 00:29:04,920 --> 00:29:07,280 Speaker 2: the House in forty years, and then how we negotiated 513 00:29:07,840 --> 00:29:11,200 Speaker 2: with Clinton for four years to get balanced budgets and 514 00:29:11,280 --> 00:29:14,440 Speaker 2: welfare reform and tax cuts and other things. And I 515 00:29:14,480 --> 00:29:17,000 Speaker 2: wrote it in part for that very reason that the 516 00:29:17,040 --> 00:29:20,920 Speaker 2: modern Republicans have to learn how to plan and how 517 00:29:20,920 --> 00:29:24,200 Speaker 2: to communicate. To your point, I mean, if you can't 518 00:29:24,240 --> 00:29:29,560 Speaker 2: explain something in a format where the average person can 519 00:29:29,640 --> 00:29:33,320 Speaker 2: understand it and can understand why it matters to them, 520 00:29:34,480 --> 00:29:37,800 Speaker 2: then you haven't gotten anything. And I think Reagan taught 521 00:29:37,880 --> 00:29:41,760 Speaker 2: us an immense amount. Then we basically in nineteen ninety 522 00:29:41,760 --> 00:29:44,440 Speaker 2: four stood on Reagan's shoulders. And I describe all that 523 00:29:44,920 --> 00:29:47,560 Speaker 2: in March to the Majority, that how much we owed Reagan. 524 00:29:48,240 --> 00:29:50,360 Speaker 2: But I think we have since lost that, And I 525 00:29:50,360 --> 00:29:53,280 Speaker 2: think we just flounder around right now and we make 526 00:29:53,320 --> 00:29:56,320 Speaker 2: a lot of noise, but we don't necessarily communicate. 527 00:29:56,440 --> 00:29:58,440 Speaker 1: We're going to take a quick commercial break. You're not 528 00:29:58,440 --> 00:30:03,240 Speaker 1: going to want to mess this. What do you think 529 00:30:03,560 --> 00:30:05,760 Speaker 1: your your book March to the Majority? What do you 530 00:30:05,760 --> 00:30:10,800 Speaker 1: think the biggest takeaway should be for Republicans in leadership 531 00:30:10,920 --> 00:30:14,480 Speaker 1: right now, looking ahead at this twenty twenty four race, 532 00:30:14,840 --> 00:30:18,400 Speaker 1: where we should have a favorable Senate landscape, where you 533 00:30:18,440 --> 00:30:22,520 Speaker 1: know Joe Biden should be vulnerable, what's the biggest takeaway 534 00:30:22,640 --> 00:30:24,520 Speaker 1: or what should the biggest takeaway be for them? 535 00:30:25,200 --> 00:30:28,600 Speaker 2: I think the biggest takeaway is to understand how much 536 00:30:28,920 --> 00:30:34,800 Speaker 2: Lincoln understood when Lincoln said that with popular sentiment, anything 537 00:30:34,920 --> 00:30:39,440 Speaker 2: is possible, and without popular sentiment, nothing is possible. And 538 00:30:39,520 --> 00:30:42,040 Speaker 2: of course from that he developed government of the people, 539 00:30:42,640 --> 00:30:45,680 Speaker 2: by the people, and for the people. And if you 540 00:30:45,760 --> 00:30:49,320 Speaker 2: go look at Reagan's farewell address, I think it's in 541 00:30:49,440 --> 00:30:53,040 Speaker 2: early January nineteen eighty nine, and you can get it 542 00:30:53,040 --> 00:30:56,560 Speaker 2: on you can pull it up on Google. He says, 543 00:30:57,480 --> 00:31:01,840 Speaker 2: people said, I won great victories, but not win any victory. You, 544 00:31:02,200 --> 00:31:05,760 Speaker 2: the American people, won the victories. It was your phone calls, 545 00:31:05,800 --> 00:31:08,800 Speaker 2: it was your letters, it was your voice. And I 546 00:31:08,880 --> 00:31:12,240 Speaker 2: think Reagan had that same feeling that you have to. 547 00:31:12,760 --> 00:31:15,920 Speaker 2: And of course our entire contract with America grew out 548 00:31:16,000 --> 00:31:18,640 Speaker 2: of the American people. I think every issue there was 549 00:31:19,040 --> 00:31:22,920 Speaker 2: sixty five seventy seventy five percent support. So I would 550 00:31:22,920 --> 00:31:24,840 Speaker 2: say the number one thing people have to learn is 551 00:31:25,680 --> 00:31:27,600 Speaker 2: and this is why we have a new project, the 552 00:31:27,600 --> 00:31:31,640 Speaker 2: America's New Majority Project. What do the American people want? 553 00:31:31,680 --> 00:31:34,680 Speaker 2: For example, eighty four percent of the country favors parental 554 00:31:34,760 --> 00:31:39,400 Speaker 2: rights and education, eighty four percent. As I said a 555 00:31:39,400 --> 00:31:42,000 Speaker 2: while ago, Tim Scott's come up with a formula that 556 00:31:42,200 --> 00:31:45,880 Speaker 2: gets seventy six percent support. So the Republicans ought to 557 00:31:45,880 --> 00:31:48,800 Speaker 2: figure out, first of all, what do the American people want? 558 00:31:49,280 --> 00:31:52,760 Speaker 2: What are they willing to stand up for? And can 559 00:31:52,800 --> 00:31:58,880 Speaker 2: I move legislation and move hearings and investigations that fit 560 00:31:59,000 --> 00:32:02,600 Speaker 2: with the American people people want, not necessarily what I want, 561 00:32:03,360 --> 00:32:05,440 Speaker 2: And that means you truly have to be a servant 562 00:32:05,480 --> 00:32:09,240 Speaker 2: of the people, and that's what I think representative self 563 00:32:09,280 --> 00:32:10,160 Speaker 2: government's all about. 564 00:32:10,360 --> 00:32:13,160 Speaker 1: That's a great point, you know, I wanted to ask you. Obviously, 565 00:32:13,280 --> 00:32:16,280 Speaker 1: it took some wrangling for Kevin McCarthy to get the 566 00:32:16,360 --> 00:32:18,840 Speaker 1: speaker's gavel. How do you think he's doing so far? 567 00:32:19,080 --> 00:32:21,479 Speaker 2: Look, I think he's doing pretty well. He's you know, 568 00:32:21,560 --> 00:32:24,960 Speaker 2: I was very fortunate because I had two big advantages. 569 00:32:25,000 --> 00:32:28,680 Speaker 2: One is that we picked up fifty four seats, so 570 00:32:28,760 --> 00:32:33,160 Speaker 2: we were the first majority in forty years. But with 571 00:32:33,240 --> 00:32:35,200 Speaker 2: fifty four seats, I had a pretty big margin. I 572 00:32:35,240 --> 00:32:38,280 Speaker 2: could afford to lose eight or nine members of any 573 00:32:38,280 --> 00:32:41,760 Speaker 2: given vote and still win. The other was that because 574 00:32:41,800 --> 00:32:43,840 Speaker 2: we had not been in the majority for forty years, 575 00:32:44,240 --> 00:32:48,080 Speaker 2: I had kind of a mythical level of leadership capacity 576 00:32:48,120 --> 00:32:50,480 Speaker 2: for the first two or three years, because I was 577 00:32:50,520 --> 00:32:53,640 Speaker 2: the guy who'd brought us out of the wilderness. Well, Kevin, 578 00:32:53,640 --> 00:32:55,600 Speaker 2: who's done a good job. By the way. You know, 579 00:32:55,640 --> 00:32:58,880 Speaker 2: they gained seats in the House in twenty twenty when 580 00:32:58,920 --> 00:33:01,520 Speaker 2: the Senate was losing seat. They gained seats in the 581 00:33:01,520 --> 00:33:05,400 Speaker 2: House in twenty twenty two when the Senate was losing seats. 582 00:33:05,440 --> 00:33:08,920 Speaker 2: And that happened in part because Kevin went out and 583 00:33:09,040 --> 00:33:14,000 Speaker 2: recruited minorities and women and veterans and had great candidates. 584 00:33:14,360 --> 00:33:17,600 Speaker 2: And so they really have the potential here to be something. 585 00:33:17,640 --> 00:33:22,240 Speaker 2: But his margin is so narrow. I think he can't 586 00:33:22,280 --> 00:33:26,640 Speaker 2: lose more than four votes. Well, you're dealing with independently 587 00:33:26,640 --> 00:33:32,959 Speaker 2: elected personalities and conservatives. It's really irunnic. Conservatives really are 588 00:33:33,080 --> 00:33:37,440 Speaker 2: kind of individualistic. Liberals tend to be basically like lemmings 589 00:33:37,520 --> 00:33:40,080 Speaker 2: or like Muskots. They liked to be in a herd, 590 00:33:40,440 --> 00:33:43,920 Speaker 2: they liked to get together. I once ask a famous 591 00:33:44,320 --> 00:33:50,400 Speaker 2: Hollywood actor why there was no comparable conservative group in 592 00:33:50,400 --> 00:33:53,720 Speaker 2: Hollywood compared to liberals, and he said, he said, most 593 00:33:53,760 --> 00:33:56,400 Speaker 2: of us who are conservative are conservatives because we want 594 00:33:56,400 --> 00:33:58,880 Speaker 2: to be left alone. He said, we don't want to 595 00:33:58,880 --> 00:34:02,320 Speaker 2: go to meetings, and our liberal friends all love getting 596 00:34:02,360 --> 00:34:04,440 Speaker 2: together and looking at each other and reassuring each other. 597 00:34:05,800 --> 00:34:08,759 Speaker 2: So you have So Kevin's got a bigger challenge than 598 00:34:08,760 --> 00:34:11,640 Speaker 2: Pelosi had. He had a bigger challenge than I had. 599 00:34:12,600 --> 00:34:16,800 Speaker 2: I thought. He got through the fifteen ballots really well. 600 00:34:17,280 --> 00:34:19,000 Speaker 2: He knew what he was doing, he knew what his 601 00:34:19,080 --> 00:34:22,440 Speaker 2: vot account was, and he knew that as long as 602 00:34:22,480 --> 00:34:25,919 Speaker 2: he was pleasant and positive, eventually he was going to win. 603 00:34:27,320 --> 00:34:30,120 Speaker 2: He's going to have a very challenging and I think 604 00:34:30,560 --> 00:34:35,239 Speaker 2: pretty tumultuous next six months. I'm kind of fascinated as 605 00:34:35,239 --> 00:34:38,520 Speaker 2: a historian to see how it works out. But there 606 00:34:38,520 --> 00:34:40,240 Speaker 2: are a lot of people who want him to succeed, 607 00:34:40,760 --> 00:34:42,399 Speaker 2: and there's going to be a real effort, I think, 608 00:34:42,440 --> 00:34:44,799 Speaker 2: to get this to work out. And he does have 609 00:34:44,840 --> 00:34:48,360 Speaker 2: the advantage that being in the majority. The investigations that 610 00:34:48,400 --> 00:34:49,799 Speaker 2: are going to be doing are going to be so 611 00:34:49,920 --> 00:34:52,640 Speaker 2: devastating that they're going to give them a kind of 612 00:34:52,760 --> 00:34:56,040 Speaker 2: momentum in the country that will be interesting to see 613 00:34:56,040 --> 00:34:58,319 Speaker 2: how it breaks into twenty twenty four. 614 00:34:58,520 --> 00:35:01,719 Speaker 1: Before we go, it just feels like the dynamics of 615 00:35:01,760 --> 00:35:05,840 Speaker 1: the country have just changed so tremendously since COVID. You know, 616 00:35:05,880 --> 00:35:09,520 Speaker 1: we've given up liberty, We've given up freedom. You know, 617 00:35:09,560 --> 00:35:12,279 Speaker 1: the government has taken more control, mean even to the 618 00:35:12,320 --> 00:35:16,200 Speaker 1: abuse of emergency powers in the country. And then you 619 00:35:16,200 --> 00:35:19,480 Speaker 1: look at the justice system as well, and the unequal 620 00:35:19,480 --> 00:35:22,759 Speaker 1: application of the law and the centralization of government. Is 621 00:35:22,800 --> 00:35:27,360 Speaker 1: it possible to go back to being a free country, 622 00:35:27,520 --> 00:35:31,400 Speaker 1: going back to being a constitutional republic where freedom matters, 623 00:35:31,440 --> 00:35:33,799 Speaker 1: liberty matters, and there's equal justice for all. 624 00:35:34,000 --> 00:35:36,640 Speaker 2: Well, you know, Arnold Tindley and his famous study of 625 00:35:36,719 --> 00:35:42,160 Speaker 2: history said that every great civilization faces challenges and the 626 00:35:42,280 --> 00:35:45,400 Speaker 2: questions whether or not they can respond. And in almost 627 00:35:45,440 --> 00:35:48,399 Speaker 2: every great civilization you have three or four or five 628 00:35:48,560 --> 00:35:51,480 Speaker 2: cycles where they get challenged, they have to rise to 629 00:35:51,480 --> 00:35:54,080 Speaker 2: the occasion, they respond, and they survive and go on. 630 00:35:55,120 --> 00:35:57,080 Speaker 2: You can think of the Civil War in World War 631 00:35:57,120 --> 00:35:59,600 Speaker 2: Two as two examples. That are the Cold War. I 632 00:35:59,760 --> 00:36:03,120 Speaker 2: have and I'm sort of like Reagan. I have enormous 633 00:36:03,160 --> 00:36:05,120 Speaker 2: faith in the American people. I have to tell you 634 00:36:05,160 --> 00:36:08,920 Speaker 2: one Reagan story illustrate this. When he was first elected, 635 00:36:09,000 --> 00:36:12,680 Speaker 2: I was a sophomore, About about ninety of us were 636 00:36:12,719 --> 00:36:15,880 Speaker 2: invited down from the House Republicans they have coffee and 637 00:36:16,480 --> 00:36:18,520 Speaker 2: stand around, and he came in to chat with us 638 00:36:18,520 --> 00:36:21,640 Speaker 2: and kind of get to know you session, and at 639 00:36:21,640 --> 00:36:23,239 Speaker 2: one point he said, he said, let me tell you 640 00:36:23,239 --> 00:36:29,080 Speaker 2: about this couple said they had twins and one twin 641 00:36:29,360 --> 00:36:33,680 Speaker 2: was totally pessimistic everything was going to be bad, and 642 00:36:33,719 --> 00:36:37,160 Speaker 2: the other twin was totally optimistic everything was going to 643 00:36:37,160 --> 00:36:40,480 Speaker 2: be good. And the parents decided that both of them 644 00:36:40,719 --> 00:36:43,520 Speaker 2: it was dangerous. The world's not totally pessimistic and it's 645 00:36:43,560 --> 00:36:46,040 Speaker 2: not totally optimistic, and so they wanted to see if 646 00:36:46,080 --> 00:36:50,839 Speaker 2: they could teach their kids a lesson. So at Christmas, 647 00:36:51,000 --> 00:36:53,959 Speaker 2: they had two rooms and in one room they put 648 00:36:54,040 --> 00:36:57,480 Speaker 2: the greatest collection of toys they could buy, and that 649 00:36:57,680 --> 00:37:00,600 Speaker 2: was for the pessimists, and the other the room they 650 00:37:00,600 --> 00:37:03,440 Speaker 2: put nothing but horse manure, and that was for the optimist. 651 00:37:04,160 --> 00:37:06,360 Speaker 2: So they sent the two kids in and they waited 652 00:37:06,360 --> 00:37:10,880 Speaker 2: about an hour, and they went in first to the pessimist, 653 00:37:11,080 --> 00:37:12,520 Speaker 2: and he was sitting in the middle of the room, 654 00:37:12,600 --> 00:37:16,440 Speaker 2: surrounded by all these toys, and he was crying, and 655 00:37:16,480 --> 00:37:20,000 Speaker 2: they said, how can you be crying, And he said, well, 656 00:37:20,520 --> 00:37:24,240 Speaker 2: this toy's going to break. Somebody's going to steal that toy. 657 00:37:24,560 --> 00:37:27,160 Speaker 2: And he goes down the list, and they look at 658 00:37:27,160 --> 00:37:29,799 Speaker 2: each other and think, well, that didn't work, so now 659 00:37:29,800 --> 00:37:31,920 Speaker 2: they're going to go and see what happens after an 660 00:37:31,960 --> 00:37:34,640 Speaker 2: hour in a room with horse manure and no toys. 661 00:37:35,040 --> 00:37:37,279 Speaker 2: They walk in the room and the little kid is 662 00:37:37,320 --> 00:37:39,600 Speaker 2: running around throwing horsemen or up in the air, yelling 663 00:37:39,640 --> 00:37:44,440 Speaker 2: wee wee. And they said, this is now Reagan's speaking. 664 00:37:44,680 --> 00:37:48,920 Speaker 2: They said, what are you doing. He said, I'm looking 665 00:37:48,960 --> 00:37:51,879 Speaker 2: for the pony. And Reagan looked at us and he said, 666 00:37:51,880 --> 00:37:54,319 Speaker 2: what you got to understand is I'm the guy who's 667 00:37:54,360 --> 00:37:57,160 Speaker 2: always looking for the pony, So don't expect me to 668 00:37:57,160 --> 00:37:59,880 Speaker 2: ever be a pessimist. And that really was who he was. 669 00:38:00,040 --> 00:38:02,759 Speaker 2: I mean, he had been through the Great Depression, he'd 670 00:38:02,760 --> 00:38:05,759 Speaker 2: been through World War Two, he spent most of his 671 00:38:05,920 --> 00:38:09,960 Speaker 2: adult lifetime fighting communism, but he had a good life. 672 00:38:09,960 --> 00:38:14,560 Speaker 2: He loved Nancy, and he had a naturally sunny up disposition. 673 00:38:14,719 --> 00:38:17,520 Speaker 2: So I think I'm a little bit like Reagan. I'm 674 00:38:17,520 --> 00:38:19,399 Speaker 2: not sure I'd spent an hour running around a room 675 00:38:19,400 --> 00:38:22,239 Speaker 2: throwing horsemen or up, but I think this is the 676 00:38:22,280 --> 00:38:26,279 Speaker 2: greatest country in the world, and just a phrase, we 677 00:38:26,360 --> 00:38:29,239 Speaker 2: are the only country that has millions of people trying 678 00:38:29,280 --> 00:38:31,640 Speaker 2: to get in. I mean, there are countries where people 679 00:38:31,640 --> 00:38:34,359 Speaker 2: are trying to get out, but we have people who 680 00:38:34,360 --> 00:38:36,360 Speaker 2: are trying to get in. Well, that's a good reason. 681 00:38:37,040 --> 00:38:39,680 Speaker 2: They were closely. I are doing a new video series 682 00:38:40,000 --> 00:38:44,359 Speaker 2: called Journey to America, interviewing first generation legal immigrants who 683 00:38:44,400 --> 00:38:47,279 Speaker 2: have been very successful and just making the point that 684 00:38:47,480 --> 00:38:49,239 Speaker 2: this is every single one and will tell you this 685 00:38:49,520 --> 00:38:52,640 Speaker 2: is the land of opportunity, this is the land of freedom. 686 00:38:53,000 --> 00:38:57,200 Speaker 2: And therefore I believe that in the end, Reagan's phrase 687 00:38:57,239 --> 00:38:59,560 Speaker 2: you ain't seen nothing yet will turn out to be 688 00:38:59,640 --> 00:39:02,920 Speaker 2: true and we'll have an even better future. 689 00:39:03,160 --> 00:39:05,640 Speaker 1: Well, I'd love to end on that optimistic note. The 690 00:39:05,680 --> 00:39:08,319 Speaker 1: book is marched to the majority speaker. It's always such 691 00:39:08,320 --> 00:39:10,200 Speaker 1: an honor to hear from you. You just have such 692 00:39:10,200 --> 00:39:13,520 Speaker 1: an amazing insight, so I just always learned so much, so 693 00:39:13,560 --> 00:39:15,600 Speaker 1: it really is an honor and I truly appreciate you 694 00:39:15,640 --> 00:39:16,280 Speaker 1: taking the time. 695 00:39:16,520 --> 00:39:21,960 Speaker 2: Great, Thank you, Take care. 696 00:39:23,680 --> 00:39:27,040 Speaker 1: That was the great speaker, Yukingridge. Thanks so much for 697 00:39:27,120 --> 00:39:29,200 Speaker 1: listening to the show every Monday and Thursday, but you 698 00:39:29,239 --> 00:39:31,480 Speaker 1: can listen throughout the week. Feel free to leave us 699 00:39:31,480 --> 00:39:33,560 Speaker 1: a review, give us a rating on Apple Podcasts. I 700 00:39:33,560 --> 00:39:35,880 Speaker 1: want to thank John Cassio, my producer, for putting the 701 00:39:35,920 --> 00:39:37,399 Speaker 1: show together. Until next time.