WEBVTT - S1: Ep 6 - The Third Floor 0:00:02.160 --> 0:00:03.840 Hey, everyone, I want to let you know that we 0:00:03.880 --> 0:00:06.880 talk about suicide in this episode. There are some links 0:00:06.880 --> 0:00:22.079 to resources in the episode description if you need them. 0:00:22.120 --> 0:00:25.640 I loved everything about my life, and then I joined 0:00:25.640 --> 0:00:29.920 this convent to follow God, thinking in my mind that 0:00:30.120 --> 0:00:32.159 everyone was going to love everyone and it was going 0:00:32.200 --> 0:00:34.720 to be double what I had at home, and it 0:00:34.760 --> 0:00:39.879 was completely different. I said, meet me up on the 0:00:39.920 --> 0:00:42.320 third floor, and then she came up and I just 0:00:42.600 --> 0:00:45.479 was crying and saying, I just I can't do this anymore. 0:00:47.720 --> 0:00:51.760 So I said her, can you? I don't know how 0:00:51.760 --> 0:00:58.240 to get out, like how do I get out from 0:00:58.240 --> 0:01:00.680 a cocoa punch? And I heard radio this is the Turning. 0:01:00.760 --> 0:01:12.160 I'm Aerica Lance, Part six, the third floor. I'm Sue Webber. 0:01:12.560 --> 0:01:14.840 Do you want like that little brief bio blah blah 0:01:15.000 --> 0:01:19.760 or just the whole bio? So I'm Sue Webber? And 0:01:19.800 --> 0:01:22.720 who are you? I'm Joan Worcester And how do you 0:01:22.760 --> 0:01:28.800 two know each other? We're sisters? So let me clarify. 0:01:29.000 --> 0:01:32.120 Joan and Sue are former sisters with the Missionaries of Charity, 0:01:32.160 --> 0:01:35.840 but they're also sisters like actual real life sisters, and 0:01:36.440 --> 0:01:40.280 we're the same age. For thirteen days. Joan and Sue 0:01:40.280 --> 0:01:43.280 live in Pennsylvania. They huddle over a computer at jones 0:01:43.400 --> 0:01:45.840 house to video chat with me, squeezing together so they 0:01:45.880 --> 0:01:49.840 can both fit in the frame. I'm I'm far more 0:01:49.960 --> 0:01:53.200 stubborn than you are. What don't you say? Are you 0:01:53.320 --> 0:02:00.520 pretty startled? We're all stubborn. It's a family trade. I 0:02:00.560 --> 0:02:03.480 don't take a lot of things personally at all. I'm 0:02:03.520 --> 0:02:08.440 more sensitive. She's much more sensitive. You're super protective too, 0:02:09.000 --> 0:02:12.760 for people who get hurt. I seek for justice a lot. 0:02:13.280 --> 0:02:15.200 That's a commonality, and I think that has to do 0:02:15.280 --> 0:02:18.440 with the convent. But I've come to seek justice and 0:02:18.520 --> 0:02:23.359 truth and everything that I do and say. Joan, the 0:02:23.440 --> 0:02:26.720 younger sister, has a certain gentleness. Sometimes she goes for 0:02:26.760 --> 0:02:30.760 a while without saying anything. She just listens. Jones says 0:02:30.800 --> 0:02:33.920 her intimate relationship with God drives everything she does. I 0:02:34.000 --> 0:02:35.600 was the type of person that was always trying to 0:02:36.080 --> 0:02:39.760 please God, and then I realized that that he loves 0:02:39.800 --> 0:02:42.680 us unconditionally, and he loves us no matter where we 0:02:42.720 --> 0:02:46.959 are in life. Sue, the older sister, is bold and open, 0:02:47.400 --> 0:02:50.919 short haircut, big personality. Says it like it is. I'm 0:02:50.960 --> 0:02:55.120 out there I'm like up for anything. Joan and Sue 0:02:55.240 --> 0:02:58.560 both joined the MCS. Unlike every sister, they followed the 0:02:58.639 --> 0:03:01.680 vow of obedience. The vow commits sisters to the power 0:03:01.720 --> 0:03:04.520 structure in the m c S. You vowed to obey God. 0:03:04.600 --> 0:03:08.200 By obeying your superior promptly and without question, you become 0:03:08.200 --> 0:03:11.160 a pencil in God's hand, as Mother Teresa said, or 0:03:11.200 --> 0:03:13.440 as a former sister put it, a tool without will 0:03:13.560 --> 0:03:16.520 or opinion of your own. That didn't work for Sue 0:03:16.560 --> 0:03:19.359 and Joan. Their story shows how power works in the 0:03:19.480 --> 0:03:22.920 order who has power, what happens as a result, and 0:03:23.000 --> 0:03:26.000 what happens when you push back on it. Sue would 0:03:26.000 --> 0:03:30.079 grapple with this from above as a superior, Joan from below. 0:03:39.600 --> 0:03:42.800 Joan and Sue grew up in the nineteen seventies in Lancaster, Pennsylvania, 0:03:43.160 --> 0:03:45.760 a small city in the middle of Amish Country. They 0:03:45.760 --> 0:03:49.520 went to Catholic school. At the time, Joan, the younger sister, 0:03:49.640 --> 0:03:51.360 toyed with the idea of going to college on a 0:03:51.400 --> 0:03:55.120 track scholarship, but she told me, in my soul until 0:03:55.200 --> 0:03:57.360 I die, I know I was meant to be a nun. 0:03:58.760 --> 0:04:01.560 So in nineteen eighties she going to Franciscan Order of Nuns. 0:04:01.840 --> 0:04:05.120 She was nineteen years old, but something was missing. The 0:04:05.160 --> 0:04:07.720 Franciscans she was with took a vow of poverty, but 0:04:07.800 --> 0:04:10.280 she didn't feel they took it far enough. Life was 0:04:10.360 --> 0:04:13.680 too comfortable. And then she learned more about Mother Teresa. 0:04:14.160 --> 0:04:16.400 I started reading some books about her and I'm like, oh, 0:04:16.440 --> 0:04:18.839 my word, she has it. While Joan was thinking about 0:04:18.880 --> 0:04:21.320 switching to the Missionaries of Charity, Sue beat her to it. 0:04:22.080 --> 0:04:25.080 She joined the m c's herself. Sue was twenty and 0:04:25.120 --> 0:04:28.640 she says the life suitor, especially helping the poor. When 0:04:28.640 --> 0:04:30.000 I asked her to tell me about some of the 0:04:30.040 --> 0:04:34.600 moments she found beautiful, she didn't know where to start. Thousands, literally, 0:04:34.640 --> 0:04:40.719 there are thousands of incredible, incredible beauty working among the poor, 0:04:40.760 --> 0:04:44.159 potentially making a difference in their lives. Six months in, 0:04:44.279 --> 0:04:46.920 Sue got some news. Her mistress told her that Joan 0:04:47.040 --> 0:04:49.960 was joining the MCS. She was leaving the Franciscans and 0:04:50.000 --> 0:04:53.599 coming to the same convent as Sue. The mistress cautioned Sue, 0:04:54.080 --> 0:04:58.719 remember no preferential love, even for family. When Joan joined, 0:04:58.760 --> 0:05:01.760 she learned the MCS had a different approach for starters. 0:05:01.880 --> 0:05:06.120 No psychological test. The Franciscans required aspiring nuns to take one. 0:05:06.920 --> 0:05:09.520 I actually think it's super important because I think what 0:05:09.600 --> 0:05:13.000 happens is you're getting women who have mental issues, right. 0:05:13.120 --> 0:05:15.720 And mother would just say, just love the sisters no 0:05:15.760 --> 0:05:18.559 matter what. But we had to live with them daily 0:05:18.600 --> 0:05:21.440 life was different to the MCS. Were much more regimented, 0:05:21.880 --> 0:05:24.200 and she noticed that the MCS didn't hug each other. Well, 0:05:24.240 --> 0:05:26.920 the Franciscan she'd been with hugged all the time. Nobody 0:05:27.000 --> 0:05:30.440 looks at anybody, nobody talks to anybody. It's grand silence. 0:05:31.000 --> 0:05:33.120 And Joan felt the m c s did poverty right. 0:05:33.680 --> 0:05:38.159 The poverty was, in my estimation, sensational, like everything we 0:05:38.200 --> 0:05:47.800 owned fit in a bucket. I love the simplicity. Since 0:05:47.880 --> 0:05:50.320 Joan was new, it was nice to see a familiar face. 0:05:50.800 --> 0:05:54.840 But my sister was rooted into the Missionaries of Charity 0:05:54.880 --> 0:05:57.760 way of life, right, So when there was complete silence, 0:05:58.360 --> 0:06:00.520 you know, I'd walk by here and kind of wink 0:06:00.640 --> 0:06:02.960 and do the things that I would do because I 0:06:03.040 --> 0:06:06.200 was just beginning. I'd nod or smile, and you know, 0:06:06.279 --> 0:06:08.440 she did do that when it was just her and I, 0:06:08.520 --> 0:06:10.159 but when she was in the group, she would pass 0:06:10.200 --> 0:06:12.920 me and not look at me, and I'd be like, oh, 0:06:14.960 --> 0:06:18.200 because I was following the rules. She was a good nun. 0:06:18.960 --> 0:06:23.520 I don't know just in the beginning. A year later though, 0:06:23.640 --> 0:06:25.640 when they'd both be in a convent in San Francisco, 0:06:26.120 --> 0:06:29.159 they'd be more flexible, and then the vision we did 0:06:29.200 --> 0:06:34.239 sneak off a lot of times on the really third floor. 0:06:34.320 --> 0:06:39.640 On the third floor, well, my mom would send care packages, 0:06:40.000 --> 0:06:43.800 like of cookies, and especially around the holidays, they had 0:06:43.839 --> 0:06:46.960 to turn any packages over to the superior. From there 0:06:46.960 --> 0:06:49.000 it was usually given to the poor or shared with 0:06:49.040 --> 0:06:52.640 the whole convent. But sometimes Sue would say to herself, 0:06:53.520 --> 0:06:56.080 these are my favorites, these are jones favorite. So then 0:06:56.160 --> 0:06:59.440 I would like hide them, and then I would see 0:06:59.520 --> 0:07:01.279 Joan and I'd be like, meet me up on the 0:07:01.320 --> 0:07:03.640 third floor. And then we would sit up on these 0:07:03.640 --> 0:07:09.279 stacks of mattresses and eat the cookies and enjoyed every moment. 0:07:10.320 --> 0:07:13.800 Be worth any penance that we never got caught. No, 0:07:13.920 --> 0:07:19.640 we didn't. We're good. You guys have both preferred to pendence. 0:07:19.720 --> 0:07:21.640 And I was just wondering, when you say penance, are 0:07:21.640 --> 0:07:24.880 you thinking of the discipline change that kind of thing 0:07:25.880 --> 0:07:33.200 you can go first. Good, okay, so um, I only 0:07:33.240 --> 0:07:36.800 share with very intimate people, which is like my fellow 0:07:37.000 --> 0:07:40.040 sisters who left. I don't know if Mom even knows 0:07:40.040 --> 0:07:43.640 that she I think she does. Okay, well she saw 0:07:43.760 --> 0:07:50.239 your change. It's a question, so questions. So I didn't bracelet. 0:07:50.320 --> 0:07:52.720 But here's the thing, and I will make my full 0:07:52.800 --> 0:07:57.800 confession right here, right now, that I was not faithful 0:07:57.840 --> 0:08:01.840 to my penances because I thought they were crazy. Joan's 0:08:01.840 --> 0:08:04.240 group of Aspirans learned about the discipline a few months in. 0:08:04.960 --> 0:08:07.240 So then they said, you can go to the bathroom. 0:08:07.320 --> 0:08:11.680 But I go into the stall and I just I 0:08:11.720 --> 0:08:14.160 couldn't do it. And I heard the sister next to me, 0:08:14.440 --> 0:08:17.560 who was totally independences, and she was beating herself. I 0:08:17.600 --> 0:08:20.040 could hear her. I'm thinking, dear God, i'd be yelling, 0:08:20.160 --> 0:08:22.520 oh you know. And I thought, okay, I gotta do 0:08:22.600 --> 0:08:24.800 something because they're probably listening to me as I'm listening 0:08:24.800 --> 0:08:26.960 to them. So I hit the sides of the walls 0:08:27.520 --> 0:08:29.400 of the toilet, and I was just going, you know, 0:08:30.080 --> 0:08:32.760 hitting the sides instead of hitting myself because I couldn't 0:08:32.800 --> 0:08:35.719 do it. And then gradually I began to do it, 0:08:36.000 --> 0:08:39.360 and I then didn't have problems with it because I 0:08:39.400 --> 0:08:44.320 do believe that if you do sacrifice yourself, I can 0:08:44.320 --> 0:08:46.800 gain grace with myself and I can also help someone 0:08:46.840 --> 0:08:50.080 else's soul. I believe that to this day. I believe that. 0:08:51.000 --> 0:08:54.160 Soon Joan took the discipline every day. Then she got 0:08:54.160 --> 0:08:57.400 the spiked arm chain, which she wore during mass. I 0:08:57.480 --> 0:08:59.880 put it on, and you're supposed to fold your hands 0:08:59.880 --> 0:09:03.560 because then it digs into your arm, and I felt Christ. 0:09:03.920 --> 0:09:12.080 I felt him as i've never I mean, I felt him. 0:09:12.120 --> 0:09:18.000 I think the injustice came when rules were different for 0:09:18.120 --> 0:09:21.560 different people. So for example, one of the rules was 0:09:21.640 --> 0:09:23.680 you can't go home because we have to live a 0:09:23.720 --> 0:09:27.079 life of poverty. But then a regional superior who really 0:09:27.120 --> 0:09:29.520 liked another sister, she got to go home for her 0:09:29.559 --> 0:09:33.079 parents funeral. It's it's everybody's at the mercy of whoever 0:09:33.160 --> 0:09:37.080 has power. They become the voice of God for you. 0:09:37.120 --> 0:09:39.160 That's all they keep saying. I'm the voice of God 0:09:39.240 --> 0:09:42.319 for you at this moment, under your valuve obedience right, 0:09:42.520 --> 0:09:45.600 no matter what it is, And they use God as 0:09:45.640 --> 0:09:51.520 the weapon. M hmm. Joan felt that weapon, and this 0:09:51.600 --> 0:09:55.040 is where her story diverged from SEUs in New York. 0:09:55.400 --> 0:09:58.440 I got something in my stomach where I was really, 0:09:58.480 --> 0:10:01.079 really sick. She was in so much pain she had 0:10:01.120 --> 0:10:04.600 to crawl down the stairs. Her mistress didn't offer support. 0:10:05.000 --> 0:10:07.400 I would go to her and said, I'm really sick, 0:10:07.480 --> 0:10:09.640 and she would say, just you know, give it to Jesus, 0:10:09.640 --> 0:10:13.160 offer it up, you'll be fine. One day a volunteer 0:10:13.200 --> 0:10:16.160 saw Joan and the condition she was in and she said, 0:10:16.200 --> 0:10:19.200 this little child needs to go to the doctor, but 0:10:19.280 --> 0:10:23.000 Jones mistress said no, it was the superior's decision to 0:10:23.040 --> 0:10:27.240 make and the superior was away. So I just continued 0:10:27.320 --> 0:10:30.520 on every day crawling down the stairs. She maybe come 0:10:30.559 --> 0:10:32.360 down to church no matter what, whether I was sick 0:10:32.480 --> 0:10:34.440 or not, I had to come into try to work, 0:10:34.720 --> 0:10:38.679 which I couldn't. When the volunteer came back, she decided 0:10:38.720 --> 0:10:42.280 to take charge. She said, sister, go get your shoes. 0:10:43.240 --> 0:10:46.000 You're going to die. You have to go. Joan found 0:10:46.000 --> 0:10:49.400 out she had pancreatitis. Left untreated, it can be really serious. 0:10:50.080 --> 0:10:56.720 So that's how it started. Jones stayed in the hospital 0:10:56.760 --> 0:10:59.280 for a week. When she returned to the convent, she 0:10:59.280 --> 0:11:02.600 says something she aged with her mistress. She targeted Joan 0:11:02.880 --> 0:11:06.400 and she was relentless. First she accused Joan of being 0:11:06.440 --> 0:11:09.199 too friendly with a man, a seminarian who had prayed 0:11:09.200 --> 0:11:11.760 with her while she was in the hospital, then of 0:11:11.800 --> 0:11:13.920 trying to seduce the men coming into the soup kitchen 0:11:14.000 --> 0:11:16.760 for meals. I was like shocked. I was shocked that 0:11:16.800 --> 0:11:19.400 she was saying it. I never even thought it. I'm 0:11:19.440 --> 0:11:22.360 not going after anyone. So she accused me of that 0:11:23.880 --> 0:11:28.480 and so much more. Jones says it was impossible to 0:11:28.520 --> 0:11:30.960 please her, Like the time her mistress told her to 0:11:31.000 --> 0:11:34.520 teach English to some sisters from South America. Joan didn't 0:11:34.520 --> 0:11:37.040 know any Spanish. She says. She did her best to 0:11:37.080 --> 0:11:39.439 teach them, but every time one of the sisters made 0:11:39.440 --> 0:11:42.800 a mistake in English, the mistress made Joan do penance. 0:11:43.280 --> 0:11:45.440 So I used to tell them to not speak. I said, 0:11:45.440 --> 0:11:48.560 can you please not just speak and save me from 0:11:48.559 --> 0:11:52.520 my penances. Sometimes her mistress made her kneel in silence 0:11:52.559 --> 0:11:56.160 beside the refectory table. Well, everyone else ate and talked. 0:11:57.200 --> 0:12:01.560 These humiliations, the accusations, the little dig they all piled up. 0:12:02.200 --> 0:12:04.160 She would tell me I wasn't holy, Tell me I 0:12:04.200 --> 0:12:07.400 was prideful, Tell me that Jesus knows You're a fake 0:12:07.440 --> 0:12:09.599 and a phony, and all these kinds of things. She 0:12:09.600 --> 0:12:13.560 would say to me. Right, So, um, I must have 0:12:13.559 --> 0:12:17.080 been really hard to hear. It was very hard. Joan 0:12:17.160 --> 0:12:20.000 began to question her vocation. Is this really what God 0:12:20.040 --> 0:12:23.800 wanted for her? After six months, she was sent to 0:12:23.800 --> 0:12:26.960 a convent in Chicago for postulancy with a new mistress. 0:12:27.559 --> 0:12:30.640 I've thought I died and went to heaven. She was wonderful, beautiful, 0:12:31.200 --> 0:12:33.640 free from the belittling mistress in New York, john could 0:12:33.679 --> 0:12:35.600 focus on the parts of religious life that fueled her 0:12:36.360 --> 0:12:39.119 visiting shed In's, working at the soup kitchens and shelters. 0:12:40.240 --> 0:12:42.280 But then words spread that the mistress in New York 0:12:42.520 --> 0:12:46.720 might be transferred to Chicago. Panic said in one sister 0:12:46.800 --> 0:12:49.240 in my group she took an iron and burnt her 0:12:49.320 --> 0:12:53.520 leg as penance penance so the mistress wouldn't be assigned 0:12:53.520 --> 0:12:56.960 to Chicago. That's how much people did not like her. 0:13:00.160 --> 0:13:03.600 But the penance was in vain. The mistress transferred to Chicago, 0:13:04.240 --> 0:13:07.200 and Jones says she started right in again. She would 0:13:07.200 --> 0:13:08.760 call me in and she would scream at me and 0:13:08.760 --> 0:13:11.160 tell me that I'm very irresponsible, and she would yell 0:13:11.200 --> 0:13:14.199 at me and say you're stupid. There were times when 0:13:14.280 --> 0:13:16.280 Joan had no idea what she had done wrong. She 0:13:16.400 --> 0:13:19.760 cried in the chapel and prayed, why is this happening? 0:13:19.800 --> 0:13:21.600 Why are you allowing this to happen to me? I 0:13:21.640 --> 0:13:24.640 only wanted to come and serve you. I was angry 0:13:24.720 --> 0:13:30.319 and hurt and sad, and I was all of those. Finally, 0:13:30.400 --> 0:13:33.200 Jane spoke with her superior, the nune above her mistress. 0:13:33.880 --> 0:13:36.440 She tried to explain it all, but the superior told 0:13:36.480 --> 0:13:39.360 Joan to forgive her mistress. She said, can you try 0:13:39.400 --> 0:13:42.800 and love her? I said, okay, I'll try. But there 0:13:42.840 --> 0:13:45.040 was only so much Joan could take. She was at 0:13:45.080 --> 0:13:47.800 a breaking point, so she turned to the one person 0:13:47.840 --> 0:13:54.319 she thought could change things, Mother Teresa. When Mother Teresa visited, 0:13:54.800 --> 0:13:57.600 Joan had a one on one meeting with her. She says. 0:13:57.640 --> 0:13:59.920 She told Mother Teresa everything that happened with her miss 0:14:00.080 --> 0:14:02.480 us and I was crying and sobbing, and I said, 0:14:02.760 --> 0:14:04.720 I don't know. I don't think Jesus wants me here. Mother, 0:14:04.840 --> 0:14:07.240 I don't know what to do. And she said, Sister 0:14:07.320 --> 0:14:12.080 Maria Fatima, be only all for Jesus. And of course, 0:14:12.120 --> 0:14:14.400 in my head, I'm thinking, really that's all you got. 0:14:14.440 --> 0:14:15.920 That's what you're gonna tell me. You're not going to 0:14:16.040 --> 0:14:18.200 take this evil woman away from me. You're not going 0:14:18.240 --> 0:14:21.080 to stop this abuse. You're not going to do anything 0:14:21.120 --> 0:14:23.200 about it. You're just gonna let me continue to suffer. 0:14:24.160 --> 0:14:26.960 That's how I say that. No, I was thinking I'd 0:14:26.960 --> 0:14:28.800 say a words, mother, Teresa, you know what I mean, 0:14:29.200 --> 0:14:32.880 say a word. That's the difference between me and my sister. 0:14:32.960 --> 0:14:35.800 My sister would have told her. I would not have 0:14:35.920 --> 0:14:40.560 to skip quiet. I just accepted it. By now, Joan 0:14:40.640 --> 0:14:42.600 had been in the order for a year. It was 0:14:42.640 --> 0:14:44.680 time to become a novice, which for her meant to 0:14:44.720 --> 0:14:48.680 transfer to San Francisco, the same convent as Sue. Before 0:14:48.720 --> 0:14:51.240 she left, she had a meeting with her mistress and 0:14:51.280 --> 0:14:54.000 she said, I know that I've been very very hard 0:14:54.080 --> 0:14:57.400 on you. I wanted to break your spirit. I wanted 0:14:57.440 --> 0:14:59.440 you to become humble because I know you're going to 0:14:59.520 --> 0:15:04.200 be something great in this community. And I said to her, 0:15:04.320 --> 0:15:06.280 and I'm going to tell you something. You as a 0:15:06.360 --> 0:15:09.920 mistress have the power to make or break a vocation, 0:15:10.320 --> 0:15:13.600 and you have broken mind and you live with that 0:15:21.160 --> 0:15:24.000 in California. Sue had no idea what her younger sister 0:15:24.080 --> 0:15:26.520 was going through. Even now that they were in the 0:15:26.560 --> 0:15:30.280 same convent, they couldn't really talk about it. Joan hung on, 0:15:30.360 --> 0:15:32.880 but she was fragile. And then she got a package 0:15:32.880 --> 0:15:36.480 from her mom. It was full of family photos, pictures 0:15:36.520 --> 0:15:38.440 of our family reunion. And I think because I was 0:15:38.480 --> 0:15:41.240 struggling so much there at that moment, that when she 0:15:41.280 --> 0:15:43.920 sent those pictures, it was a trigger for me. So 0:15:44.040 --> 0:15:46.640 that day, Joan found her big sister and told her 0:15:46.640 --> 0:15:49.080 to go to their spot. I said, meet me up 0:15:49.080 --> 0:15:51.360 on the third floor. And then she came up and 0:15:51.400 --> 0:15:54.120 I just was crying and saying, I just I can't 0:15:54.120 --> 0:16:00.400 do this anymore. Um I know me too, because we're 0:16:00.440 --> 0:16:05.240 both going to be crying right here. And so I 0:16:05.280 --> 0:16:09.000 said to her, can you I don't know how to 0:16:09.040 --> 0:16:11.400 get out, Like, how do I get out? You could 0:16:11.400 --> 0:16:14.240 tell that she was suffering, like you could just physically 0:16:14.280 --> 0:16:18.360 tell she was suffering, and I was super clear if 0:16:18.400 --> 0:16:24.080 she stayed, it would have been so massively unhealthy. And 0:16:24.120 --> 0:16:26.360 she said, the only way you can get out is 0:16:26.360 --> 0:16:28.440 if you say that you can't live the celibate life, 0:16:29.320 --> 0:16:32.760 because every other way they would talk you into staying. 0:16:33.680 --> 0:16:37.120 So I went down to the sister, and I said, um, 0:16:37.160 --> 0:16:38.960 I can't live the celibate life, like every time I 0:16:39.000 --> 0:16:41.160 go in a tram car, look at guys. It was 0:16:41.200 --> 0:16:44.720 all lies. It wasn't true. But I told her that, 0:16:44.760 --> 0:16:46.840 and she said, if you would have said anything else, 0:16:47.160 --> 0:16:48.880 I would have asked you to stay. But because you 0:16:48.880 --> 0:16:52.480 said you can't live the celibate life, I understand that 0:16:52.480 --> 0:16:55.040 that's a gift from God. And from there that it 0:16:55.120 --> 0:16:58.240 was kind of quick, like call your parents and I 0:16:58.280 --> 0:16:59.920 said to meet me, and that I was getting all 0:17:00.040 --> 0:17:01.880 this flight. And then it was all like kind of 0:17:02.600 --> 0:17:05.840 quietly done, like hush, hush, go down and get clothing. 0:17:05.920 --> 0:17:09.399 At this time, I'm super skinny and kind of sickly looking, 0:17:09.440 --> 0:17:12.440 but I put clothing on, and I still felt that 0:17:12.480 --> 0:17:18.840 I was called. She truly felt called. And then there 0:17:18.880 --> 0:17:24.919 was no healthy soil for that call to grow. The 0:17:24.960 --> 0:17:28.280 saddest part for me was that my soul didn't want 0:17:28.320 --> 0:17:30.680 to leave because I love the work and I loved 0:17:30.720 --> 0:17:35.679 the prayer, I loved the whole life. But mentally I 0:17:35.760 --> 0:17:45.479 was losing Joan. And then I went into the chapel 0:17:45.480 --> 0:17:48.760 and my name was Sister Maria Fatima, and everybody there 0:17:48.880 --> 0:17:55.040 was singing this our Lady of Fatima song and I 0:17:55.080 --> 0:17:57.560 was kneeling and I was crying. It was like I 0:17:57.600 --> 0:18:01.920 was having an out of body experience. When I walked 0:18:01.960 --> 0:18:04.280 out the door, I left my soul in the chapel. 0:18:05.359 --> 0:18:07.400 The very depth of my soul was still there because 0:18:07.400 --> 0:18:10.199 I didn't really want to go, but my body was 0:18:10.240 --> 0:18:15.840 taking me out and it was so painful to watch. 0:18:16.920 --> 0:18:19.199 And then for me the fear of like is that 0:18:19.280 --> 0:18:21.359 going to happen to me? Like? Am I going to 0:18:21.520 --> 0:18:44.680 lose myself? Even though Joan left, Sue stayed. She progressed 0:18:44.720 --> 0:18:47.280 through the ranks of the order, took her first vows, 0:18:47.400 --> 0:18:50.280 took her final vows, she became a superior, and she 0:18:50.359 --> 0:18:52.720 stayed in the m CS for over a decade, working 0:18:52.720 --> 0:18:55.320 all over the country in women's shelters and soup kitchens. 0:18:56.600 --> 0:18:59.520 Sue says her outspoken nature helped and she knew how 0:18:59.520 --> 0:19:02.560 to navigate the system, like the time Mother Teresa visited 0:19:02.600 --> 0:19:04.879 the empty house in Baton Rouge where Sue was running 0:19:04.880 --> 0:19:07.439 a summer camp. She'd be like, how's it going it? 0:19:07.680 --> 0:19:10.119 And I basically lied. I basically said, oh, it's just 0:19:10.200 --> 0:19:14.040 really hard, because I knew she wouldn't transfer me. Wow. 0:19:14.320 --> 0:19:16.040 But if I would have went in and said, oh, 0:19:16.119 --> 0:19:18.720 I love it here, and I probably would have got transfer. 0:19:19.920 --> 0:19:22.159 You kind of learned the code to continue doing what 0:19:22.240 --> 0:19:25.280 you wanted, because I've definitely heard from other people, you know, 0:19:25.359 --> 0:19:28.639 expressing a lot of enthusiasm for something and then getting 0:19:28.640 --> 0:19:31.119 pulled off of that job, like, Oh, she's enjoying that 0:19:31.200 --> 0:19:35.239 too much. Yes, I think that happened a lot. And 0:19:35.400 --> 0:19:38.120 I'm super intuitive in that way, so as soon as 0:19:38.160 --> 0:19:40.960 I know the code, I'm in. Sue had been an 0:19:41.000 --> 0:19:43.520 EMC for about ten years. When she became a superior, 0:19:44.200 --> 0:19:46.439 she was transferred to the m C Eight's Hospice in 0:19:46.480 --> 0:19:50.280 San Francisco. It was a three story wooden house. The 0:19:50.320 --> 0:19:53.399 sisters lived on the first floor. So when I first 0:19:53.440 --> 0:20:00.840 got there, there were six of us total, and there 0:20:00.840 --> 0:20:03.480 were three that I would say could function and carry 0:20:03.480 --> 0:20:10.760 out duties well, and there were three that were really struggling. First, 0:20:10.760 --> 0:20:13.200 she had to learn to manage the house with no training. 0:20:13.680 --> 0:20:16.119 So you kind of go in blind. You don't kind 0:20:16.119 --> 0:20:18.600 of go in blind. You go in blind, just pray 0:20:18.640 --> 0:20:20.679 and you'll get the grace to do what needs to 0:20:20.720 --> 0:20:24.360 be done. So she relied on her intuition in the hospice. 0:20:24.880 --> 0:20:27.200 It was rewarding to care for these men with aids 0:20:27.240 --> 0:20:31.440 who were dying. Most of these men were rejected from 0:20:31.480 --> 0:20:35.520 their families. Like when we tried to reach their families, 0:20:35.560 --> 0:20:38.960 they didn't want anything to do with it. I mean 0:20:39.000 --> 0:20:41.480 that was the early nineties. The stigma was still there. 0:20:42.480 --> 0:20:48.640 This one young man, Lamont, and he was young, beautiful, funny. 0:20:49.119 --> 0:20:52.560 We contacted his family. I mean at this time, he 0:20:52.600 --> 0:20:54.479 couldn't get up, he couldn't sit up. I mean, he 0:20:54.520 --> 0:20:57.280 was completely bedridden. And so I said to him, Hey, 0:20:57.320 --> 0:21:00.240 I have a surprise for you, and then he's said 0:21:00.240 --> 0:21:04.199 what First, I just brought his mother, and he just 0:21:04.280 --> 0:21:06.920 burst into tears, and she burst into tears, and then 0:21:06.960 --> 0:21:09.800 she came over and held him almost like a child again. 0:21:10.320 --> 0:21:13.600 I got underneath him and held him and just kept 0:21:13.680 --> 0:21:16.560 kissing him and telling him how much she loved him. 0:21:16.640 --> 0:21:22.920 And oh, he sobbed, sobbed, sobbed, sobbed, and and then 0:21:22.960 --> 0:21:25.919 the siblings came in, and they were a very exuberant family, 0:21:26.000 --> 0:21:28.480 and so you would just hear him laughing and they 0:21:28.480 --> 0:21:31.080 would sing. And then for like three days it was 0:21:31.160 --> 0:21:36.720 just like party time. It was so sweet. The mom 0:21:36.800 --> 0:21:38.960 had put an eight track tape. We had a little 0:21:39.000 --> 0:21:41.000 tape recorder thing, and she put the eight track tape 0:21:41.000 --> 0:21:45.280 in and hit the button. This voice and song was. 0:21:46.080 --> 0:21:49.040 It gave me chills and I said to her, that 0:21:49.240 --> 0:21:56.320 is so beautiful, and she goes, that's Lamont. He had 0:21:56.600 --> 0:22:04.080 an exquisite voice, and then he passed away like like 0:22:04.119 --> 0:22:15.920 a day after that. As a superior, Sue was now 0:22:15.960 --> 0:22:18.840 technically the direct voice of God, because she never thought 0:22:18.840 --> 0:22:21.439 of it that way. Now she could make her own rules, 0:22:21.600 --> 0:22:24.240 she could eat what she wanted, even form relationships outside 0:22:24.280 --> 0:22:27.480 the convent. Having power for the first time in years 0:22:27.560 --> 0:22:30.040 led her to act in ways she didn't expect. When 0:22:30.160 --> 0:22:35.640 you are in an organization that suppresses the human spirit 0:22:35.880 --> 0:22:39.920 in the ways that it had done, you always think, 0:22:40.160 --> 0:22:41.960 you know, if I was superior, I would never act 0:22:42.000 --> 0:22:45.600 like that. I would be kind, I would listen. And 0:22:45.640 --> 0:22:48.760 what you realized is the second you became superior, you 0:22:48.840 --> 0:22:53.240 had a lot of freedom and power that was suppressed 0:22:53.680 --> 0:22:57.880 for many, many years. One time a nun underseas supervision 0:22:58.000 --> 0:23:00.720 told her she was sick. She would say, I can't 0:23:00.760 --> 0:23:04.760 do X whatever. But I remember going, yes, you can, 0:23:04.960 --> 0:23:07.879 You're not that sick. And I had the power to 0:23:07.960 --> 0:23:11.639 make her do those things. One night, while the sister 0:23:11.720 --> 0:23:15.120 has slept, Sue snuck out to the chapel, just sat 0:23:15.160 --> 0:23:17.920 alone in the quiet, and all of a sudden, there 0:23:17.960 --> 0:23:21.840 was this moment of my God, you are being exactly 0:23:22.440 --> 0:23:25.000 you're doing and being exactly the things you said you 0:23:25.040 --> 0:23:28.920 weren't going to be or do. What is wrong with you? 0:23:28.920 --> 0:23:32.879 You know you're wielding power, the whole infamous absolute power 0:23:32.960 --> 0:23:39.360 corrupts absolutely that you had absolute power in that microcosmo absolutely, 0:23:40.000 --> 0:23:44.199 and then I shifted completely. Sue decided to change her 0:23:44.240 --> 0:23:49.080 whole approach. She listened, not reprimand not humiliate. She'd start 0:23:49.080 --> 0:23:54.080 with kindness, but she was about to learn that her 0:23:54.119 --> 0:23:58.400 absolute power wasn't really absolute. One day, so you got 0:23:58.400 --> 0:24:01.159 a call from Mother Teresa about a answer. A new 0:24:01.240 --> 0:24:03.720 nun was coming to work at the hospice, and she said, 0:24:03.720 --> 0:24:07.159 I'm sending you sister so and so. She's a gift 0:24:07.200 --> 0:24:11.359 from Jesus and you just need to love her. I 0:24:11.359 --> 0:24:14.240 mean the standing joke as superior. Here's where if you 0:24:14.280 --> 0:24:17.240