1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:03,119 Speaker 1: The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are solely 2 00:00:03,160 --> 00:00:06,800 Speaker 1: those of the podcast author or individuals participating in the podcast, 3 00:00:06,920 --> 00:00:10,640 Speaker 1: and do not necessarily represent those of iHeart Media, Stuff Media, 4 00:00:10,840 --> 00:00:16,680 Speaker 1: or its employees. On the fiftieth anniversary of the Zodiacs 5 00:00:16,720 --> 00:00:20,400 Speaker 1: first confirmed killings in Benetia, a group of self proclaimed 6 00:00:20,520 --> 00:00:24,560 Speaker 1: Zodiologists visited the site on Lake Herman Road. They went 7 00:00:24,600 --> 00:00:27,600 Speaker 1: there to pay homage to the victims David Faraday and 8 00:00:27,640 --> 00:00:31,400 Speaker 1: Betty lu Jensen. Days earlier, a threat was made to 9 00:00:31,520 --> 00:00:34,160 Speaker 1: harm anyone who showed up at the Lake Herman site 10 00:00:34,240 --> 00:00:39,040 Speaker 1: on the anniversary. The Zodiologists decided to go anyway, and 11 00:00:39,159 --> 00:00:44,120 Speaker 1: we joined them. Yeah, I know there were threats made 12 00:00:44,240 --> 00:00:47,640 Speaker 1: for people who came here tonight. What do we have 13 00:00:47,720 --> 00:00:52,040 Speaker 1: about people here right now and over the next half hour. 14 00:00:52,159 --> 00:00:56,280 Speaker 1: I expect maybe another dozen people are more coming here, 15 00:00:57,080 --> 00:00:59,080 Speaker 1: though I know there are other people who would be 16 00:00:59,120 --> 00:01:02,280 Speaker 1: here tonight if those threats have not been made, people 17 00:01:02,320 --> 00:01:04,760 Speaker 1: who want to be here and remember the anniversary and 18 00:01:05,319 --> 00:01:11,839 Speaker 1: remember David and Betty lou N She did nice, yet 19 00:01:12,760 --> 00:01:18,880 Speaker 1: Lourest David A M. You're looking at the crosses where 20 00:01:18,880 --> 00:01:20,600 Speaker 1: it would be a good place to have them set 21 00:01:20,600 --> 00:01:25,839 Speaker 1: for a while. Right now, I came up here. If 22 00:01:26,440 --> 00:01:28,280 Speaker 1: I didn't know if anybody we're gonna be here because 23 00:01:29,200 --> 00:01:32,880 Speaker 1: that threat about a shooting or something, SAM would drive 24 00:01:32,920 --> 00:01:36,960 Speaker 1: off here. Anyway, I'll take my chances. It's really interested 25 00:01:37,000 --> 00:01:40,240 Speaker 1: to see a police officer here from the Venetia Police Department. 26 00:01:40,680 --> 00:01:42,959 Speaker 1: About twenty people who came over here. There's none of 27 00:01:43,000 --> 00:01:45,039 Speaker 1: us who were going to cause any problems. But we 28 00:01:45,120 --> 00:01:46,800 Speaker 1: have no idea who else is going to be here 29 00:01:46,880 --> 00:01:49,960 Speaker 1: this evening. There will quite likely be a number of 30 00:01:50,000 --> 00:01:51,760 Speaker 1: other cars of people that we don't know that it 31 00:01:51,840 --> 00:01:57,520 Speaker 1: will show up. I'm Corporal Cruise with the Inanitia Police Department. 32 00:01:57,680 --> 00:02:01,760 Speaker 1: We're here because of the fiftie anniversary of the Zodiac killing. 33 00:02:02,560 --> 00:02:04,560 Speaker 1: We're just here for extra patrol and just kind of 34 00:02:04,600 --> 00:02:07,440 Speaker 1: make sure everyone that comes here wants to be here 35 00:02:07,600 --> 00:02:12,760 Speaker 1: and stay safe. What makes she wonders how the Zodiac? 36 00:02:13,240 --> 00:02:15,520 Speaker 1: I mean, you hate trail him out here? You find 37 00:02:15,560 --> 00:02:18,280 Speaker 1: them by accident? And where was the car park? It 38 00:02:18,400 --> 00:02:20,640 Speaker 1: was parked about where the where the taller of the 39 00:02:20,840 --> 00:02:25,000 Speaker 1: arrow science right there, headed right towards this way. I 40 00:02:25,040 --> 00:02:26,720 Speaker 1: don't know. They show the crime sheet photos, but you 41 00:02:26,760 --> 00:02:35,840 Speaker 1: can't in there were the backup facing. I think David 42 00:02:35,919 --> 00:02:38,360 Speaker 1: was found this is Tom's territory, but I think he 43 00:02:38,440 --> 00:02:41,400 Speaker 1: was found outside the passengers side door because he tried 44 00:02:41,440 --> 00:02:45,240 Speaker 1: to get away and she had gotten out and got 45 00:02:45,720 --> 00:02:49,720 Speaker 1: she got down here and he got he was killed 46 00:02:49,800 --> 00:02:53,760 Speaker 1: right there. It's it's been a real treat to hang 47 00:02:53,800 --> 00:02:58,360 Speaker 1: out with other zodiologists and talk about the anniversary. This 48 00:02:58,480 --> 00:03:03,200 Speaker 1: being the fiftieth anniversary is kind of sobering time. You know, 49 00:03:03,320 --> 00:03:05,480 Speaker 1: fifty years ago today there was a couple who was 50 00:03:06,200 --> 00:03:08,720 Speaker 1: holding hands and kissing in the front seat of a 51 00:03:08,800 --> 00:03:11,560 Speaker 1: station wagon. But an hour from now, less than an 52 00:03:11,560 --> 00:03:15,440 Speaker 1: hour from now, we will commemorate the time that they 53 00:03:15,480 --> 00:03:20,680 Speaker 1: were shot dead for no purpose apparently, and the perpetrator 54 00:03:20,720 --> 00:03:33,359 Speaker 1: has still not been identified or brought to justice. A 55 00:03:33,480 --> 00:03:36,920 Speaker 1: man in a mask robbed, tied, and stabbed them, leaving 56 00:03:36,960 --> 00:03:41,160 Speaker 1: them for day. Subjects stated, I want to report a murder, 57 00:03:41,840 --> 00:03:46,000 Speaker 1: no a double murder. I did it. A man who 58 00:03:46,000 --> 00:03:49,640 Speaker 1: wore an evil style executioner's hood, carried a knife and 59 00:03:49,760 --> 00:03:54,080 Speaker 1: gun and intended to use them. They haven't arrested me 60 00:03:54,160 --> 00:03:59,040 Speaker 1: because they can't prove it. I'm not damn zodiac. Who 61 00:03:59,080 --> 00:04:02,680 Speaker 1: is the zodiac and where is he from? My Heart Radio, 62 00:04:03,080 --> 00:04:07,600 Speaker 1: How Stuff Works, and Tenderfoot TV. This is Monster, the 63 00:04:07,680 --> 00:04:14,040 Speaker 1: Zodiac Killer. They say imitation is the highest form of flattery, 64 00:04:14,760 --> 00:04:18,039 Speaker 1: and if that's true, the Zodiac may have had some admirers. 65 00:04:19,120 --> 00:04:21,320 Speaker 1: By now, you've heard about the range and murder weapons 66 00:04:21,520 --> 00:04:25,640 Speaker 1: and all the other inconsistencies between the Zodiac killings. In 67 00:04:25,720 --> 00:04:30,240 Speaker 1: this episode, we'll see double confronting the unpleasant idea of 68 00:04:30,279 --> 00:04:36,040 Speaker 1: a Zodiac copycat. Unspeakable evil is one thing, but consciously 69 00:04:36,080 --> 00:04:48,920 Speaker 1: replicating that evil that may be worse. There are people 70 00:04:48,960 --> 00:04:53,200 Speaker 1: who are totally wrapped up. They don't celebrate, but they 71 00:04:53,200 --> 00:04:58,320 Speaker 1: commemorate every anniversary of these murders. People they never met, 72 00:04:58,360 --> 00:05:02,320 Speaker 1: they didn't know. That's Rachel Raskin's Rhian, who you heard 73 00:05:02,360 --> 00:05:05,400 Speaker 1: on last week's episode. She's a reporter at the Times 74 00:05:05,400 --> 00:05:08,039 Speaker 1: Harold in Valleo, a paper that's been involved with the 75 00:05:08,080 --> 00:05:12,400 Speaker 1: case since the very beginning. What's funny is the people 76 00:05:12,400 --> 00:05:14,960 Speaker 1: who did know, the people who has happened to don't 77 00:05:14,960 --> 00:05:18,160 Speaker 1: do that. I haven't met one that does that. They 78 00:05:18,200 --> 00:05:21,120 Speaker 1: may remember it in their head, but they don't go 79 00:05:21,160 --> 00:05:23,479 Speaker 1: to the site in the middle of the night. Why 80 00:05:23,520 --> 00:05:25,520 Speaker 1: would you have a fan club for something like a 81 00:05:25,720 --> 00:05:31,520 Speaker 1: serial killer. I guess it's not unusual. Like Manson, Charles Manson, 82 00:05:32,279 --> 00:05:37,119 Speaker 1: he's got followers. Still, I can't explain it. They can't 83 00:05:37,160 --> 00:05:41,200 Speaker 1: explain it. I've asked. Rachel says she's heard a lot 84 00:05:41,240 --> 00:05:44,679 Speaker 1: of strange stories about the Zodiac. Some people even claim 85 00:05:44,760 --> 00:05:48,840 Speaker 1: to have escaped the unknown killer. I've had a couple 86 00:05:48,880 --> 00:05:51,840 Speaker 1: of people tell me that they are positive that they 87 00:05:51,960 --> 00:05:57,080 Speaker 1: encountered this person and escaped death, and they can't let 88 00:05:57,080 --> 00:06:01,680 Speaker 1: it go. It just becomes a part their life, and 89 00:06:01,760 --> 00:06:03,760 Speaker 1: some people have becomes more of a part of their 90 00:06:03,839 --> 00:06:07,839 Speaker 1: life than other people. But I imagine if you thought 91 00:06:07,920 --> 00:06:13,080 Speaker 1: you encountered a serial killer and lived to tell the tale, 92 00:06:13,640 --> 00:06:23,880 Speaker 1: it probably sticks with you. After the incident happened with Betty, 93 00:06:24,040 --> 00:06:26,919 Speaker 1: you know, of course, everyone's talking about it in Valleo 94 00:06:27,080 --> 00:06:30,200 Speaker 1: kind of were a close knit town at that time. 95 00:06:30,360 --> 00:06:34,400 Speaker 1: The population wasn't like it is now. This is Lorraine 96 00:06:34,400 --> 00:06:37,000 Speaker 1: de Groat. You heard her from an earlier episode when 97 00:06:37,000 --> 00:06:41,320 Speaker 1: she remembered losing her childhood friend Betty lu Jensen. Lorraine 98 00:06:41,320 --> 00:06:43,800 Speaker 1: believes that she too had a chance encounter with the 99 00:06:43,880 --> 00:06:46,960 Speaker 1: Zodiac when her cousin and a few friends decided to 100 00:06:47,040 --> 00:06:50,400 Speaker 1: visit the murder scene at Lake Herman Road. This is 101 00:06:50,400 --> 00:06:55,599 Speaker 1: her story as a teenager. This one night, my cousin 102 00:06:55,760 --> 00:06:59,479 Speaker 1: talked to us all in. We agreed, the four of us, okay, 103 00:06:59,560 --> 00:07:01,440 Speaker 1: let's take right out there. And it was kind of late. 104 00:07:01,480 --> 00:07:05,160 Speaker 1: It was like tan ten thirty eleven, and my cousin's 105 00:07:05,240 --> 00:07:09,800 Speaker 1: driving Henry and I'm behind him, and then Nadine is 106 00:07:09,960 --> 00:07:13,920 Speaker 1: passenger and my boyfriend's behind her. We go out there 107 00:07:14,080 --> 00:07:20,000 Speaker 1: and it's totally black dark, there's no street lights, you 108 00:07:20,040 --> 00:07:25,240 Speaker 1: can't see nothing, and the headlights. There's a guy standing 109 00:07:25,840 --> 00:07:29,400 Speaker 1: in the road. So what was so noticeable was he 110 00:07:29,480 --> 00:07:32,040 Speaker 1: was wearing this like I want to say it's an 111 00:07:32,120 --> 00:07:36,640 Speaker 1: army jacket, but it was big, it was loose, and 112 00:07:36,760 --> 00:07:40,000 Speaker 1: it went down to just about probably between his knees 113 00:07:40,040 --> 00:07:43,800 Speaker 1: and his thighs. We were focusing and I go, oh, 114 00:07:43,840 --> 00:07:46,560 Speaker 1: there's a there's a guy. I'm sitting behind my cousin 115 00:07:46,760 --> 00:07:49,120 Speaker 1: and I'm kicking him. I'm going, don't stop, don't stop, 116 00:07:49,120 --> 00:07:51,320 Speaker 1: because I'm scared. I didn't even want to be out there, 117 00:07:51,600 --> 00:07:55,560 Speaker 1: so I'm saying don't stop, don't stop. So we had 118 00:07:55,600 --> 00:07:58,280 Speaker 1: to slow down because the guy wouldn't get out of 119 00:07:58,320 --> 00:08:03,280 Speaker 1: the road. So we're slowing down. Nadine rolls the window 120 00:08:03,280 --> 00:08:06,640 Speaker 1: down and so does my boyfriend and as we rolled 121 00:08:06,680 --> 00:08:10,280 Speaker 1: the window down, my cousin said, can we help you? 122 00:08:10,800 --> 00:08:14,120 Speaker 1: What's up? Then the guy leans kind of leans in 123 00:08:14,160 --> 00:08:18,640 Speaker 1: towards Nadine looking at us, and he said, I can't 124 00:08:18,640 --> 00:08:22,080 Speaker 1: find my girlfriend. We were out on a fishing boat 125 00:08:22,160 --> 00:08:26,840 Speaker 1: on Lake Herman. We're going oh and it's eleven at night, 126 00:08:27,320 --> 00:08:29,840 Speaker 1: you know, and I'm really kicking my cousin. I'm going go, 127 00:08:29,840 --> 00:08:32,760 Speaker 1: go go, because it just didn't sound right. And he said, 128 00:08:32,960 --> 00:08:38,400 Speaker 1: if you could just park over here and um help 129 00:08:38,480 --> 00:08:42,120 Speaker 1: me find her. Well, that was just totally stupid. It 130 00:08:42,160 --> 00:08:46,000 Speaker 1: didn't even make any sense. So then my cousin like 131 00:08:46,120 --> 00:08:51,079 Speaker 1: acted like, okay, we'll help you. Of course, there's no phones, 132 00:08:51,120 --> 00:08:54,120 Speaker 1: no cell phones, and I think we mentioned something like, well, 133 00:08:54,400 --> 00:08:57,400 Speaker 1: where's your car and he said he didn't have one. 134 00:08:57,760 --> 00:09:00,960 Speaker 1: So we said, well, we could call the police for you, 135 00:09:01,240 --> 00:09:04,200 Speaker 1: and then my cousin just kind of sped off the 136 00:09:04,240 --> 00:09:08,640 Speaker 1: minute he the guy stood up, and we were also scared, 137 00:09:08,720 --> 00:09:11,680 Speaker 1: and I said, that's Zodiac. I kept saying that is Zodiac. 138 00:09:12,080 --> 00:09:14,920 Speaker 1: So we drove that whole road because there's no turning 139 00:09:14,960 --> 00:09:20,640 Speaker 1: around to come back so as we're speeding away, about 140 00:09:20,720 --> 00:09:23,560 Speaker 1: a mile mile and a half from where we left 141 00:09:23,720 --> 00:09:27,240 Speaker 1: him was a car. Was a car on the right 142 00:09:27,320 --> 00:09:30,280 Speaker 1: hand side. It was the only car during our whole 143 00:09:30,880 --> 00:09:33,880 Speaker 1: speeding venture to get off that road. My guess is 144 00:09:33,920 --> 00:09:36,840 Speaker 1: it had to have been his car, because there was 145 00:09:36,960 --> 00:09:39,760 Speaker 1: Like I said, there was no houses, there was no 146 00:09:40,040 --> 00:09:42,719 Speaker 1: that was his car. We drove that road and it 147 00:09:42,840 --> 00:09:46,800 Speaker 1: comes straight into Benicia. So we go straight up to 148 00:09:46,840 --> 00:09:49,800 Speaker 1: the police station. We told him the story. There's a 149 00:09:49,840 --> 00:09:52,720 Speaker 1: guy out there, we just ran into him. He said 150 00:09:52,760 --> 00:09:57,280 Speaker 1: his girlfriend, he lost her. And then I remember I 151 00:09:57,360 --> 00:10:00,760 Speaker 1: told the officer I was saying, I think that was Zodiac. 152 00:10:01,320 --> 00:10:03,240 Speaker 1: He said, well, we're gonna go check that out. We 153 00:10:03,559 --> 00:10:05,840 Speaker 1: will drive out there. And then I said, can I 154 00:10:06,000 --> 00:10:08,600 Speaker 1: call you back tomorrow so you can tell me if 155 00:10:08,640 --> 00:10:13,120 Speaker 1: they found his girlfriend. When I called the police station 156 00:10:13,400 --> 00:10:16,640 Speaker 1: the next day, of course, my curiosity is just off 157 00:10:16,679 --> 00:10:19,920 Speaker 1: the chart. So I said, what happened? And he said, 158 00:10:19,960 --> 00:10:22,200 Speaker 1: we went out there, and he goes, there was nothing 159 00:10:22,240 --> 00:10:26,840 Speaker 1: out there, there was no car. I think he was 160 00:10:26,920 --> 00:10:31,520 Speaker 1: gonna kill whoever was in the car, but there was 161 00:10:31,600 --> 00:10:36,920 Speaker 1: four of us. That's what I think. I'm so consumed 162 00:10:37,120 --> 00:10:42,240 Speaker 1: to this day about Zodiac until the day I die. 163 00:10:42,640 --> 00:11:02,800 Speaker 1: I believe that was Zodiac. Lorraine said it was curiosity 164 00:11:02,840 --> 00:11:05,200 Speaker 1: that led her and her friends down Lake Herman Road 165 00:11:05,280 --> 00:11:09,319 Speaker 1: that night. In five decades later, Lorraine's fascination with the 166 00:11:09,440 --> 00:11:14,640 Speaker 1: Zodiac continues. But what can happen when someone's fascination with 167 00:11:14,720 --> 00:11:19,080 Speaker 1: a killer becomes an obsession and even an opportunity to 168 00:11:19,160 --> 00:11:22,280 Speaker 1: pick up where a killer left off. This happened in 169 00:11:22,280 --> 00:11:26,120 Speaker 1: the late nineteen eighties when another Zodiac killer showed up 170 00:11:26,160 --> 00:11:29,560 Speaker 1: in New York City. In the area that was involved, 171 00:11:29,559 --> 00:11:32,400 Speaker 1: basically East New York Brooklyn. At the time, it was 172 00:11:32,440 --> 00:11:34,640 Speaker 1: like the motor capital of the world. It was the 173 00:11:34,679 --> 00:11:37,440 Speaker 1: most violent precinct in New York City. It still is, 174 00:11:37,480 --> 00:11:40,320 Speaker 1: but back then it was really, really terrible. We were 175 00:11:40,360 --> 00:11:44,160 Speaker 1: averaging over a hundred homicides plus an additional five hundred 176 00:11:44,160 --> 00:11:47,880 Speaker 1: montreto shootings within five square miles. So it was a 177 00:11:47,960 --> 00:11:51,640 Speaker 1: very hectic time for the police and the detectives. And 178 00:11:51,679 --> 00:11:55,000 Speaker 1: in the midst of all this violence was an emerging 179 00:11:55,160 --> 00:12:00,640 Speaker 1: serial killer who was calling himself to Zodiac. My name 180 00:12:00,760 --> 00:12:04,080 Speaker 1: is Joseph Herbert. I'm a deputy chief in a New 181 00:12:04,160 --> 00:12:08,200 Speaker 1: York City police department. I recently retired and my final 182 00:12:08,240 --> 00:12:11,200 Speaker 1: position was to commanding of the Joint TOEWS On Test Force. 183 00:12:12,200 --> 00:12:14,880 Speaker 1: Deputy Chief Joe Herbert played a key role in the 184 00:12:15,000 --> 00:12:18,320 Speaker 1: Zodiac case, which took place in New York City. On 185 00:12:18,400 --> 00:12:24,520 Speaker 1: November the NYPD received an unusual letter. It stated that 186 00:12:24,640 --> 00:12:27,959 Speaker 1: one person for each of the twelve zodiac signs would 187 00:12:27,960 --> 00:12:31,439 Speaker 1: be killed. Authorities believed it was a hoax and nothing 188 00:12:31,480 --> 00:12:33,800 Speaker 1: to be alarmed about, and there was no reason to 189 00:12:33,840 --> 00:12:39,480 Speaker 1: follow up. The first letter came into the Semi five precinct, 190 00:12:39,920 --> 00:12:42,120 Speaker 1: and that letter he was taken credit for a shooting 191 00:12:42,120 --> 00:12:44,760 Speaker 1: that we never identified. They didn't marry it up to 192 00:12:44,800 --> 00:12:48,920 Speaker 1: any actual shooting. It had the circle, it had rambling writing, 193 00:12:49,559 --> 00:12:52,200 Speaker 1: and it wasn't taken seriously. I think it ended up 194 00:12:52,200 --> 00:12:57,920 Speaker 1: into somebody's lacker. Authorities would soon realize the threats were 195 00:12:57,920 --> 00:13:01,840 Speaker 1: no joke. His first him was a handicapped individual who 196 00:13:01,920 --> 00:13:04,640 Speaker 1: was returning home from work late at night. His name 197 00:13:04,679 --> 00:13:09,960 Speaker 1: was Mario Roscoe. He was walking approaching Atlantic Avenue coming 198 00:13:10,000 --> 00:13:12,560 Speaker 1: home from the train and he was approached from the 199 00:13:12,600 --> 00:13:16,559 Speaker 1: rear and shot once in the back by an individual 200 00:13:17,160 --> 00:13:20,920 Speaker 1: who had a vandanna over his face and did not 201 00:13:21,200 --> 00:13:23,520 Speaker 1: rob him, did not saying they just shot him and 202 00:13:23,640 --> 00:13:28,040 Speaker 1: ran away. Three weeks later, the second victim, who was 203 00:13:28,080 --> 00:13:31,720 Speaker 1: also coming home from the subway station. The name was 204 00:13:31,800 --> 00:13:36,760 Speaker 1: Herman Montenegro. He was a little intoxicated. He was out 205 00:13:36,760 --> 00:13:40,560 Speaker 1: partying and he's coming home from the subway and he 206 00:13:40,640 --> 00:13:43,719 Speaker 1: gets approached from the rear again and he shot in 207 00:13:43,760 --> 00:13:47,199 Speaker 1: the back for no reason, although in his case he 208 00:13:47,520 --> 00:13:52,160 Speaker 1: believed that his passport was taken from him. With that 209 00:13:52,240 --> 00:13:54,319 Speaker 1: being said, there was no letters left at that and 210 00:13:54,360 --> 00:13:57,440 Speaker 1: there was no connection by the police that these two 211 00:13:57,480 --> 00:14:02,040 Speaker 1: incidents were connected, and they were investigated as random shootings 212 00:14:02,080 --> 00:14:05,840 Speaker 1: and they want some The first two victims of the 213 00:14:05,880 --> 00:14:09,480 Speaker 1: unknown shooter had survived, the victim of the third attack 214 00:14:09,640 --> 00:14:14,079 Speaker 1: would not be so lucky. The next shooting was Joseph Proachy. 215 00:14:15,080 --> 00:14:17,760 Speaker 1: He was an elderly male. We used to walk around 216 00:14:17,760 --> 00:14:20,560 Speaker 1: the East New York section of Brooklyn to collect bottles 217 00:14:20,560 --> 00:14:23,960 Speaker 1: and cans for the deposit. He was very friendly with 218 00:14:23,960 --> 00:14:27,840 Speaker 1: people in the community. One night, he's returning home from 219 00:14:27,880 --> 00:14:31,720 Speaker 1: collecting bottles and cans and he's approached from the rear 220 00:14:31,800 --> 00:14:35,480 Speaker 1: as he's entering his building and he shot once in 221 00:14:35,520 --> 00:14:39,480 Speaker 1: the back. Also, the difference was at this scene the 222 00:14:39,640 --> 00:14:43,280 Speaker 1: shooter left a note, and he weighed the note down 223 00:14:43,520 --> 00:14:47,240 Speaker 1: with three stones, which could indicate that he might have 224 00:14:47,320 --> 00:14:49,920 Speaker 1: left notes at the prior incidents and they might have 225 00:14:49,920 --> 00:14:52,200 Speaker 1: blown away in the wind, but you know well uncertain 226 00:14:52,200 --> 00:14:54,560 Speaker 1: of that. So anyway, he leaves a note at the 227 00:14:54,640 --> 00:14:57,800 Speaker 1: proachy scene, and in the note he takes credit for 228 00:14:58,520 --> 00:15:03,040 Speaker 1: three shootings, and he articulates and the letters the proper 229 00:15:03,720 --> 00:15:08,440 Speaker 1: zodiac sign of each victim. The killer was apparently selecting 230 00:15:08,520 --> 00:15:12,200 Speaker 1: victims based on their birthday the New York Zodiac. Then 231 00:15:12,240 --> 00:15:14,960 Speaker 1: sent letters to the New York Post in sixty minutes. 232 00:15:15,480 --> 00:15:20,240 Speaker 1: These letters were studied for DNA and latent fingerprints. Please 233 00:15:20,360 --> 00:15:24,040 Speaker 1: ramp up heavily. They had detected a couple of patents. 234 00:15:24,160 --> 00:15:27,800 Speaker 1: One pattern was the incidents occurred in multiples of twenty 235 00:15:27,840 --> 00:15:33,880 Speaker 1: one days. The first attack occurred on March, then twenty 236 00:15:33,880 --> 00:15:37,560 Speaker 1: one days later there was a second attack, and then 237 00:15:37,600 --> 00:15:40,400 Speaker 1: sixty three days later was the Dot shooting. So they 238 00:15:40,400 --> 00:15:44,600 Speaker 1: saw it that it was in multiples. On the twenty 239 00:15:44,680 --> 00:15:49,000 Speaker 1: one day at the shooting, they flooded the area incredibly 240 00:15:49,080 --> 00:15:54,600 Speaker 1: like a massive presence of undercovers, uniforms, detectives. Everything they 241 00:15:54,600 --> 00:15:58,000 Speaker 1: could do and what happened is the individual does strike, 242 00:15:58,360 --> 00:16:00,840 Speaker 1: but he doesn't strike in East New York section of Brooklyn. 243 00:16:00,920 --> 00:16:04,640 Speaker 1: He took the train into Manhattan and he should Labby Pawham, 244 00:16:05,040 --> 00:16:07,240 Speaker 1: who was sleeping on a park bench in Central Park 245 00:16:08,920 --> 00:16:11,160 Speaker 1: at that scene. He leaves another note and was also 246 00:16:11,200 --> 00:16:14,280 Speaker 1: weighed down by a stone with the appropriate zodiac sign 247 00:16:14,400 --> 00:16:18,520 Speaker 1: of Labby Paham, now taking credit for four shootings with 248 00:16:18,640 --> 00:16:22,160 Speaker 1: the appropriate zodiac signs of all four victims. Now that 249 00:16:22,280 --> 00:16:26,080 Speaker 1: letter was very important. Everybody was aware of what was 250 00:16:26,120 --> 00:16:29,200 Speaker 1: going on in Brooklyn. So when they came up upon 251 00:16:29,240 --> 00:16:32,560 Speaker 1: a shooting in Central Park in Manhattan and they recovered 252 00:16:32,560 --> 00:16:35,720 Speaker 1: the letter, the climb scene was pristine, and they were 253 00:16:35,720 --> 00:16:39,720 Speaker 1: able to recover a fingerprint from that letter, which were 254 00:16:39,720 --> 00:16:42,120 Speaker 1: about to be very important later on in the investigation. 255 00:16:44,160 --> 00:16:47,280 Speaker 1: This story may be starting to sound familiar. A string 256 00:16:47,320 --> 00:16:50,800 Speaker 1: of letters taunting the police hopes that a fingerprint would 257 00:16:50,840 --> 00:16:53,560 Speaker 1: help catch the killer. The killer in New York was 258 00:16:53,680 --> 00:16:57,480 Speaker 1: following in the footsteps of the Zodiac. When let his 259 00:16:57,560 --> 00:17:00,320 Speaker 1: first came in, he actually claimed that he was one 260 00:17:00,360 --> 00:17:03,120 Speaker 1: and the same as the Zodiac killer. He actually jew 261 00:17:03,120 --> 00:17:07,000 Speaker 1: a sketch of the California Zodiac, wearing a hood on 262 00:17:07,000 --> 00:17:08,480 Speaker 1: one of his letters and he said to me in 263 00:17:08,480 --> 00:17:10,760 Speaker 1: the park. So, you know, we had no idea, you know, 264 00:17:11,040 --> 00:17:14,240 Speaker 1: if it was the same individual the fingerprint that we 265 00:17:14,280 --> 00:17:17,400 Speaker 1: had from the PAM letter, they sent it to the 266 00:17:17,440 --> 00:17:20,440 Speaker 1: San Francisco dohities and was not a match too to 267 00:17:20,560 --> 00:17:25,440 Speaker 1: that letter. The killer was still on the loose and 268 00:17:25,520 --> 00:17:28,360 Speaker 1: authorities were trying to find any leads that would put 269 00:17:28,359 --> 00:17:31,280 Speaker 1: the city's fear at ease. There was a lot of 270 00:17:31,359 --> 00:17:33,399 Speaker 1: havoc and a lot of chaos in the city at 271 00:17:33,400 --> 00:17:36,399 Speaker 1: the time because the Post was getting the letters and 272 00:17:36,400 --> 00:17:38,919 Speaker 1: they were producing headlines, and there was putting a lot 273 00:17:38,920 --> 00:17:41,359 Speaker 1: of fear into the city. So anybody who asked anybody 274 00:17:41,400 --> 00:17:44,640 Speaker 1: for their birthdays in a in a random conversation, people 275 00:17:44,680 --> 00:17:48,280 Speaker 1: would panic and they would call the cops. So when 276 00:17:48,359 --> 00:17:52,359 Speaker 1: Mr Piam got shot in Central Park, he recovered and 277 00:17:52,480 --> 00:17:55,080 Speaker 1: they interviewed him and he says, a couple of days 278 00:17:55,080 --> 00:17:57,160 Speaker 1: before the shooting, he was sitting on a park bench 279 00:17:57,200 --> 00:18:00,040 Speaker 1: in Central Park and an individual he was talking and 280 00:18:00,119 --> 00:18:04,480 Speaker 1: the birthdays came up. A composite sketch was made of 281 00:18:04,520 --> 00:18:07,800 Speaker 1: the man who spoke with Parum about birthdays just days 282 00:18:07,920 --> 00:18:12,120 Speaker 1: before the shooting. So that was the basis of that sketch. 283 00:18:13,920 --> 00:18:18,640 Speaker 1: They actually ended the investigation extensively by putting that sketch out. 284 00:18:18,920 --> 00:18:21,440 Speaker 1: Took us in a long direction for a very long time. 285 00:18:21,840 --> 00:18:23,520 Speaker 1: When you put out a sketch, you're going to get 286 00:18:23,520 --> 00:18:25,879 Speaker 1: a lot of response. Make sure that you're putting a 287 00:18:25,920 --> 00:18:28,600 Speaker 1: sketch out of someone who you have a witness scene 288 00:18:28,640 --> 00:18:31,719 Speaker 1: doing the climb. It was a male black initially, and 289 00:18:31,880 --> 00:18:37,359 Speaker 1: the Zodiac was actually a much in a malismanic just 290 00:18:37,560 --> 00:18:40,600 Speaker 1: like the original Zodiac. The media played a key role 291 00:18:40,680 --> 00:18:43,440 Speaker 1: in this case, and not one that was always helpful. 292 00:18:44,880 --> 00:18:47,359 Speaker 1: After the press leaks that a fingerprint had been taken 293 00:18:47,400 --> 00:18:50,639 Speaker 1: from one of the letters, the New York Zodiac fell silent. 294 00:18:50,960 --> 00:18:54,000 Speaker 1: They wouldn't hear from him again until two years later 295 00:18:54,640 --> 00:19:01,040 Speaker 1: on August. The killer struck again, but Sastafante was the 296 00:19:01,080 --> 00:19:03,280 Speaker 1: only one that was a little bit different than the others. 297 00:19:04,560 --> 00:19:07,880 Speaker 1: He approached her in daylight. I was she exited a bus. 298 00:19:07,920 --> 00:19:11,240 Speaker 1: She was apparently lost in the book area, and he 299 00:19:11,320 --> 00:19:14,680 Speaker 1: approached her and entices to the golopment to the plot 300 00:19:14,720 --> 00:19:18,600 Speaker 1: with him by giving her cigarettes. She had psychological issues 301 00:19:19,160 --> 00:19:21,720 Speaker 1: and he took advantage of her, and he goes so 302 00:19:21,840 --> 00:19:24,680 Speaker 1: we allays does a look part of the park and 303 00:19:24,880 --> 00:19:28,760 Speaker 1: the attacks he saves a one hundred times, killing her. 304 00:19:30,200 --> 00:19:33,399 Speaker 1: Three more attacks would take place, all within close range 305 00:19:33,400 --> 00:19:37,840 Speaker 1: of Highland Park, which borders between Brooklyn and Queens. James 306 00:19:37,840 --> 00:19:41,080 Speaker 1: Webber and John Diacon were both shot and wounded in 307 00:19:41,200 --> 00:19:46,720 Speaker 1: June and July. Another near fatal shooting would occur that October, 308 00:19:47,040 --> 00:19:50,359 Speaker 1: again in Highland Park, when Diane Ballard was shot in 309 00:19:50,400 --> 00:19:55,240 Speaker 1: the neck. She survived but was left paralyzed. The only 310 00:19:55,280 --> 00:19:58,159 Speaker 1: one that was able to describe the pip was Dianne 311 00:19:58,200 --> 00:20:02,000 Speaker 1: Ballad and that was the assis of the male of 312 00:20:02,040 --> 00:20:04,800 Speaker 1: Spanic with the mus dish and the hat. So she 313 00:20:05,000 --> 00:20:06,840 Speaker 1: was the one that kind of took us from the 314 00:20:06,880 --> 00:20:12,199 Speaker 1: heavyset mail black sketch to a male Spanic sketch. The 315 00:20:12,280 --> 00:20:15,479 Speaker 1: Zodiac had succeeded in putting fear into the citizens of 316 00:20:15,520 --> 00:20:19,040 Speaker 1: New York. The NYPD began to ramp up in reaction 317 00:20:19,119 --> 00:20:22,520 Speaker 1: to the killings, even forming a task force specifically for 318 00:20:22,560 --> 00:20:25,560 Speaker 1: the case. It was the biggest man hunt in New 319 00:20:25,640 --> 00:20:29,680 Speaker 1: York since the Son of Sam killings in six It 320 00:20:29,800 --> 00:20:32,760 Speaker 1: was abouty serious case. The NYPD took a lot of interest, 321 00:20:32,800 --> 00:20:35,440 Speaker 1: a lot of expense. They were literally being embabrassed because 322 00:20:35,480 --> 00:20:38,080 Speaker 1: every time you said the lettos going headlines at the 323 00:20:38,080 --> 00:20:41,080 Speaker 1: New York Post and all the other those papers. But 324 00:20:41,200 --> 00:20:44,160 Speaker 1: in the letters, he was actually twenty in the NYPD 325 00:20:45,600 --> 00:20:49,040 Speaker 1: at one point, zodiac the number of his victims it 326 00:20:49,160 --> 00:20:53,199 Speaker 1: might have been nine and n YPD zero. Looking for 327 00:20:53,240 --> 00:20:56,639 Speaker 1: any possible leads in this case, investigators in the media, 328 00:20:56,680 --> 00:20:59,560 Speaker 1: we're trying to make a deeper connection between the shootings 329 00:20:59,680 --> 00:21:04,119 Speaker 1: and the astrological calendar. A lot of people dropped dimes, 330 00:21:04,440 --> 00:21:07,000 Speaker 1: a lot of people who contacted us. We would contacted 331 00:21:07,280 --> 00:21:11,200 Speaker 1: from all over the world, Belgium, India, Pakistan, people who 332 00:21:11,200 --> 00:21:14,240 Speaker 1: were interested in the zodiac, and they studied the zodiac 333 00:21:14,280 --> 00:21:18,560 Speaker 1: and they were given us ideas. I'm an investigator based 334 00:21:18,560 --> 00:21:21,919 Speaker 1: all my conclusions on evidence, so I didn't really like 335 00:21:22,040 --> 00:21:26,120 Speaker 1: get involved with the zodiac angle of it. I concentrated 336 00:21:26,200 --> 00:21:30,400 Speaker 1: on the finger prints. Joe maintains that ultimately good police 337 00:21:30,440 --> 00:21:34,200 Speaker 1: work and logic helped bring this killer to justice. By 338 00:21:34,200 --> 00:21:37,280 Speaker 1: tracking the locations of the shootings, Joe and his squad 339 00:21:37,359 --> 00:21:40,000 Speaker 1: were able to hone in on some locations where the 340 00:21:40,000 --> 00:21:46,000 Speaker 1: shooter was operating the monetary. Earlier letters, he describes an 341 00:21:46,000 --> 00:21:51,119 Speaker 1: intersection in eastern oak Brooklyn, Elbert Lane and Jamaica Avenue. 342 00:21:51,680 --> 00:21:55,800 Speaker 1: There's an l elevated train station. Along Jamaica Avenue, you 343 00:21:55,840 --> 00:21:58,880 Speaker 1: have Frankman Kay Lane, which is a large public high 344 00:21:58,920 --> 00:22:02,439 Speaker 1: school and as a large playing field, and around the 345 00:22:02,440 --> 00:22:06,080 Speaker 1: playing field you have high benches, you know, for people 346 00:22:06,119 --> 00:22:09,119 Speaker 1: to sit and watch the games. He would follow people 347 00:22:09,600 --> 00:22:12,440 Speaker 1: from the train station. It was an exit at that intersection. Also, 348 00:22:13,200 --> 00:22:16,920 Speaker 1: we figured he was concealing himself up on the stands 349 00:22:17,400 --> 00:22:19,160 Speaker 1: and then he would come down and follow the people 350 00:22:19,520 --> 00:22:21,800 Speaker 1: to wherever they went and wait for his prime moment 351 00:22:21,840 --> 00:22:24,479 Speaker 1: to shoot them when no audi else was around. Remembers 352 00:22:24,520 --> 00:22:28,560 Speaker 1: his first comfort zone. The second comfort zone was all 353 00:22:28,560 --> 00:22:32,879 Speaker 1: in Highland Park. Now at Highland Park, there was a 354 00:22:32,960 --> 00:22:36,960 Speaker 1: large reservoir on top of the park. Around the reservoir, 355 00:22:36,960 --> 00:22:39,199 Speaker 1: it was a perch where he had the ability to 356 00:22:39,200 --> 00:22:43,000 Speaker 1: walk around and look for victims. Once he identified his 357 00:22:43,119 --> 00:22:46,800 Speaker 1: victims from about the top of the reservoir area, he 358 00:22:46,840 --> 00:22:50,000 Speaker 1: would come down the hill and strike his victims were 359 00:22:50,040 --> 00:22:55,399 Speaker 1: walking innocently in the park. We identified both those comfort zones. 360 00:22:55,960 --> 00:22:58,280 Speaker 1: We drew out a map and we went a mile east, 361 00:22:58,600 --> 00:23:02,359 Speaker 1: a mile west of north, and a mile south of 362 00:23:02,440 --> 00:23:04,960 Speaker 1: those comfort zones, so we had probably like you know, 363 00:23:04,960 --> 00:23:07,400 Speaker 1: like a two or three square mile area. We ran 364 00:23:07,440 --> 00:23:09,960 Speaker 1: every address that were in the complience of that map, 365 00:23:11,240 --> 00:23:14,199 Speaker 1: and then we searched about databases for people who had 366 00:23:14,200 --> 00:23:19,240 Speaker 1: criminal histories in those addresses, came up with about names. 367 00:23:19,600 --> 00:23:20,960 Speaker 1: I didn't really have a lot of faith in the 368 00:23:20,960 --> 00:23:26,200 Speaker 1: computers at that time, so we submitted for manual latent 369 00:23:26,400 --> 00:23:29,760 Speaker 1: fingerprint evaluation all the people that had criminal histories in 370 00:23:29,760 --> 00:23:35,080 Speaker 1: those forty addresses. There was a ton of work just 371 00:23:35,320 --> 00:23:37,520 Speaker 1: collecting these things of prints that, never mind having them 372 00:23:37,600 --> 00:23:40,879 Speaker 1: board to the evaluated is to to evaluate them. But 373 00:23:41,520 --> 00:23:44,680 Speaker 1: at the end of the day we injected his name 374 00:23:44,720 --> 00:23:50,520 Speaker 1: into the investigation. I haven't both us saida. Now they 375 00:23:50,600 --> 00:23:54,359 Speaker 1: just had to match the fingerprints. Joe says, due to 376 00:23:54,359 --> 00:23:57,840 Speaker 1: a charge from a past arrest being dropped that would 377 00:23:57,880 --> 00:24:01,080 Speaker 1: prove to be impossible. He taken in a rushed for 378 00:24:01,359 --> 00:24:03,960 Speaker 1: primal possession of a zip gun. The significant of the 379 00:24:04,040 --> 00:24:06,120 Speaker 1: zip gun was that he would make the guns himself. 380 00:24:07,080 --> 00:24:09,920 Speaker 1: A zip gun is a homemade weapon made by using 381 00:24:10,000 --> 00:24:12,879 Speaker 1: pipes and other materials. You can find it a hardware store. 382 00:24:13,560 --> 00:24:16,680 Speaker 1: This was the same type of gun used in the shootings, 383 00:24:16,680 --> 00:24:19,400 Speaker 1: but authorities were unable to make the connection at the time. 384 00:24:22,119 --> 00:24:24,080 Speaker 1: In the policy unit, they couldn't put together the gun 385 00:24:24,119 --> 00:24:27,320 Speaker 1: properly and it couldn't discharge it, so because the gun 386 00:24:27,440 --> 00:24:31,159 Speaker 1: was inoperable, they dropped charges in the book in DA's office. 387 00:24:31,640 --> 00:24:35,679 Speaker 1: His fingerprints were taken at that arrest, but because they 388 00:24:35,720 --> 00:24:39,720 Speaker 1: dropped the charges, they were sealed, so later on when 389 00:24:39,720 --> 00:24:42,200 Speaker 1: we did dec red searched of all the adjusses and 390 00:24:42,520 --> 00:24:46,439 Speaker 1: the latent fingerprints from the pocalytta, we couldn't match up 391 00:24:46,440 --> 00:24:48,960 Speaker 1: to his fingerprints which could have been on file, but 392 00:24:49,280 --> 00:24:52,119 Speaker 1: because the fingerprints are sealed, we never matched it up. 393 00:24:54,080 --> 00:24:55,760 Speaker 1: Later on we became aware with at it that we 394 00:24:55,800 --> 00:25:19,719 Speaker 1: did identify him. M authorities were so close to catching 395 00:25:19,720 --> 00:25:22,520 Speaker 1: the killer. Due to some luck, they would again be 396 00:25:22,600 --> 00:25:26,200 Speaker 1: confronted with SATA when an altercation with his sister led 397 00:25:26,240 --> 00:25:31,000 Speaker 1: to a three hour shootout in hostage situation. I was 398 00:25:31,040 --> 00:25:34,080 Speaker 1: a hosh, just negotiated, I had just finished training, and 399 00:25:34,200 --> 00:25:35,720 Speaker 1: I'm sitting in the office and I get a phone 400 00:25:35,720 --> 00:25:40,080 Speaker 1: called late morning. I was informed that an individual hot 401 00:25:40,080 --> 00:25:43,720 Speaker 1: shot his sister and he was actively engaged in a 402 00:25:43,840 --> 00:25:47,120 Speaker 1: shootout with multiple cops. From his appointment on Kicking Avenue 403 00:25:47,640 --> 00:25:49,840 Speaker 1: and they needed a Housha negotiator to try to talk 404 00:25:49,880 --> 00:25:55,440 Speaker 1: him out. I get there and it is a large 405 00:25:55,520 --> 00:25:58,840 Speaker 1: climb scene. He had shouted out with about fifteen cops 406 00:25:58,920 --> 00:26:04,360 Speaker 1: and transit cops of train station at the corner. None 407 00:26:04,359 --> 00:26:06,560 Speaker 1: of those officers were hit, but he had shot his 408 00:26:06,600 --> 00:26:10,359 Speaker 1: sister in the EVNT. The reason he shot his sister 409 00:26:10,480 --> 00:26:12,439 Speaker 1: was because she was in the back bedroom of the 410 00:26:12,440 --> 00:26:15,119 Speaker 1: apartment with a boyfriend and he didn' improve with a boyfriend. 411 00:26:15,119 --> 00:26:18,479 Speaker 1: He thought the boyfriend was deal drugs. He had an 412 00:26:18,560 --> 00:26:20,960 Speaker 1: argument with his sister. He probably once shot through the door. 413 00:26:21,720 --> 00:26:23,359 Speaker 1: The sister came out and said, no, you're not sure, 414 00:26:23,400 --> 00:26:25,400 Speaker 1: what are you doing? And then he shoots his sister 415 00:26:25,480 --> 00:26:28,320 Speaker 1: and then we EVNT. She runs out of the apartment 416 00:26:28,400 --> 00:26:32,800 Speaker 1: leading and the boyfriend barricade himself in the back bedroom. 417 00:26:33,040 --> 00:26:36,440 Speaker 1: Police respond because neighbors called the cops with the sister 418 00:26:36,520 --> 00:26:40,560 Speaker 1: bleating in the hallway, and he engages all those officers 419 00:26:40,720 --> 00:26:43,880 Speaker 1: from multiple windows. He had eight I'll call and rifles 420 00:26:43,920 --> 00:26:46,439 Speaker 1: of buns. There were long barrels of puns. He's shooting 421 00:26:46,520 --> 00:26:48,399 Speaker 1: from the back windows, from the front windows at the 422 00:26:48,400 --> 00:26:51,840 Speaker 1: cops who are covering the area. So I get there, 423 00:26:52,000 --> 00:26:57,080 Speaker 1: that shooting had stopped. Anybody. Service had set me up 424 00:26:57,080 --> 00:27:00,040 Speaker 1: behind a barricade, and I have a bull horn on 425 00:27:00,280 --> 00:27:02,840 Speaker 1: and I started trying to communicate with him. There was 426 00:27:02,880 --> 00:27:05,719 Speaker 1: a ten days degree was a very hot day, sweating 427 00:27:05,760 --> 00:27:08,600 Speaker 1: like a dog, and I'm trying to engage from conversation 428 00:27:09,240 --> 00:27:11,040 Speaker 1: and all the stone is coming to the window. He's 429 00:27:11,080 --> 00:27:14,240 Speaker 1: pointing a large battle rifle at me, but he doesn't 430 00:27:14,240 --> 00:27:17,119 Speaker 1: fire at me, and he's not communicating with me. He's 431 00:27:17,160 --> 00:27:20,639 Speaker 1: not talking to me. Joe and his squad evacuated the 432 00:27:20,640 --> 00:27:24,919 Speaker 1: four story apartment building before entering. We climbed into the 433 00:27:24,960 --> 00:27:27,159 Speaker 1: window of the first flour and we climbed up the 434 00:27:27,200 --> 00:27:29,840 Speaker 1: four flour and I started talking to him to the doorway. 435 00:27:32,359 --> 00:27:34,880 Speaker 1: Now I'm having much better the results speaking to him. 436 00:27:34,880 --> 00:27:38,400 Speaker 1: He's actually engaged me in conversation. At about a three 437 00:27:38,400 --> 00:27:42,760 Speaker 1: hour negotiation, he finally tells us that he wants to surrender. 438 00:27:43,480 --> 00:27:45,280 Speaker 1: We know he had all these scums because he had 439 00:27:45,280 --> 00:27:48,840 Speaker 1: fired him out the window. I had emerged Services on 440 00:27:48,880 --> 00:27:52,359 Speaker 1: the roof and they lowered a bucket from the roof 441 00:27:52,440 --> 00:27:55,639 Speaker 1: to his slunt window and he loads up the bucket, 442 00:27:55,800 --> 00:28:00,920 Speaker 1: multiple buckets with zip guns, pipes, bullets and so forth, 443 00:28:03,600 --> 00:28:06,280 Speaker 1: But that wasn't all Sada was holding in the apartment. 444 00:28:07,040 --> 00:28:10,240 Speaker 1: Joe soon realized that there was a much bigger threat 445 00:28:10,560 --> 00:28:15,720 Speaker 1: they were not aware of. Now we believe that we 446 00:28:15,760 --> 00:28:18,520 Speaker 1: eliminate the teat and we're going to have him opened 447 00:28:18,560 --> 00:28:21,479 Speaker 1: up the door and surrender. And he says to us 448 00:28:21,840 --> 00:28:24,160 Speaker 1: to the door, he says, all right, you've got the concert. 449 00:28:24,240 --> 00:28:29,480 Speaker 1: What should I do with these bombs? So we said, okay, 450 00:28:29,560 --> 00:28:32,360 Speaker 1: hid bombs. So we had the Bottles squad standing by. 451 00:28:32,480 --> 00:28:35,600 Speaker 1: They came and they devised us get him out of 452 00:28:35,600 --> 00:28:38,080 Speaker 1: the apartment, then we'll make an entry into the apartment 453 00:28:38,120 --> 00:28:42,080 Speaker 1: and evaluate the bombs. And we moved the bombs with 454 00:28:42,240 --> 00:28:44,239 Speaker 1: this assistance that we made the service. We had him 455 00:28:44,240 --> 00:28:46,560 Speaker 1: opened up the door, turn his back to us with 456 00:28:46,640 --> 00:28:49,360 Speaker 1: his hands in the air. We handcuffed him. We escort 457 00:28:49,440 --> 00:28:51,920 Speaker 1: him out of the apartment, and we moved him to 458 00:28:51,920 --> 00:28:54,680 Speaker 1: the seven five. The Bobs squad goes in and they 459 00:28:54,680 --> 00:28:57,240 Speaker 1: we cover two pipe bombs that he had made and 460 00:28:57,320 --> 00:29:01,600 Speaker 1: one smoke grenade that he had inside the department. He 461 00:29:01,720 --> 00:29:03,920 Speaker 1: told us later on he was actually done a graduation 462 00:29:04,040 --> 00:29:08,400 Speaker 1: being a serial shooter to Serie Obama. He had actually 463 00:29:08,400 --> 00:29:10,840 Speaker 1: built a pipe bomb and tested it on a train 464 00:29:10,960 --> 00:29:14,280 Speaker 1: station late at night with nobody around, and it went off. 465 00:29:14,400 --> 00:29:17,280 Speaker 1: And you know, so that was in his future plenty 466 00:29:17,320 --> 00:29:21,320 Speaker 1: bombs in New York City. I escored him personally out 467 00:29:21,360 --> 00:29:23,320 Speaker 1: of the building, bring him to the seven five squad 468 00:29:23,400 --> 00:29:28,000 Speaker 1: for the briefing. Sada was in the authorities control. He 469 00:29:28,080 --> 00:29:32,719 Speaker 1: was interrogated and eventually confessed to shooting his sister. Sada 470 00:29:32,880 --> 00:29:36,239 Speaker 1: signed his confession letter with a familiar symbol from an 471 00:29:36,240 --> 00:29:43,680 Speaker 1: earlier Zodiac letter. He had drew an upside down course 472 00:29:44,120 --> 00:29:47,640 Speaker 1: on the letters with the numbers seven seven seven, So 473 00:29:47,920 --> 00:29:49,520 Speaker 1: they brought the letter to me. They knew I was 474 00:29:49,640 --> 00:29:52,760 Speaker 1: on the Zodiac task Force and very famil with the letters. 475 00:29:53,040 --> 00:29:54,480 Speaker 1: And as soon as I looked at the letters, I 476 00:29:54,520 --> 00:29:57,320 Speaker 1: recognized the handwriting to be the same writer as the 477 00:29:57,360 --> 00:29:59,320 Speaker 1: previous letters that was Senter in the good post and 478 00:29:59,360 --> 00:30:03,200 Speaker 1: fifteen minutes. So I knew then that we had them 479 00:30:03,200 --> 00:30:06,160 Speaker 1: through the handwriting. But I also knew that suspicions are 480 00:30:06,200 --> 00:30:09,200 Speaker 1: one thing. You know, ME saying it's the Zodiac isn't 481 00:30:09,240 --> 00:30:13,680 Speaker 1: going to suffice. So we had to evaluate the ballistics, 482 00:30:13,880 --> 00:30:17,200 Speaker 1: the fingerprints that we had on hand. The DNA DNA 483 00:30:17,320 --> 00:30:19,640 Speaker 1: was in its infancy back then, and we had to 484 00:30:19,680 --> 00:30:23,200 Speaker 1: interrogate him and we had to do handwriting analysis. The 485 00:30:23,200 --> 00:30:25,720 Speaker 1: first thing we did was sending Tommy Moss to mp 486 00:30:25,880 --> 00:30:28,200 Speaker 1: D Ballistics play with the zip guns and the pipes 487 00:30:28,200 --> 00:30:31,000 Speaker 1: that were taken out of the apartment, and we matched 488 00:30:31,000 --> 00:30:33,720 Speaker 1: a couple of shootings from the Zodiac with those zip guns. 489 00:30:35,040 --> 00:30:37,880 Speaker 1: Then we prepared the fingerprint from the Larry pa Haim 490 00:30:37,960 --> 00:30:41,640 Speaker 1: letter in Center Park and that matched his fingerprints, and 491 00:30:41,680 --> 00:30:44,920 Speaker 1: then the DNA matched later on, and the handwriting analysis 492 00:30:44,960 --> 00:30:49,240 Speaker 1: was also confirmed by handwriting experts. We had an eight 493 00:30:49,280 --> 00:30:52,239 Speaker 1: hour interrogation and then he finally gave it all up. 494 00:30:54,040 --> 00:30:56,720 Speaker 1: It was a difficult investigation. I mean even me and 495 00:30:56,720 --> 00:31:00,440 Speaker 1: my guys got involved in and we were four watching it. 496 00:31:01,000 --> 00:31:07,160 Speaker 1: That we solved it took him shooting his sister. We 497 00:31:07,200 --> 00:31:09,680 Speaker 1: were proud that we injected his name into the investigation. 498 00:31:10,560 --> 00:31:13,280 Speaker 1: But he never took another arrest where we could use 499 00:31:13,280 --> 00:31:15,640 Speaker 1: our singer prints where they would match up. Because he 500 00:31:15,680 --> 00:31:18,040 Speaker 1: only had that one arrest with the ziphone. That was 501 00:31:18,200 --> 00:31:22,240 Speaker 1: not offerable. And they sealed the record to all the evidence, 502 00:31:22,280 --> 00:31:26,160 Speaker 1: including the DNA, the ballistics, the Laking singer prints. Every 503 00:31:26,200 --> 00:31:30,720 Speaker 1: name was critical and very important for the city. Was 504 00:31:30,760 --> 00:31:33,320 Speaker 1: important because you know what, if we didn't sarve it, 505 00:31:33,360 --> 00:31:34,960 Speaker 1: he'd still be out there. He's still be out they 506 00:31:35,000 --> 00:31:38,080 Speaker 1: shooting people. He killed three innocent people who are didn't 507 00:31:38,120 --> 00:31:41,680 Speaker 1: deserve it, and he armed tremendously. The other five victims, 508 00:31:42,000 --> 00:31:45,920 Speaker 1: Diane Balance suffered severe no pain. Webber had difficulty with 509 00:31:46,080 --> 00:31:49,000 Speaker 1: his leg. So I mean he was shooting innocent people 510 00:31:49,000 --> 00:31:52,760 Speaker 1: for no reason, only because he could. You don't need 511 00:31:52,800 --> 00:31:54,840 Speaker 1: people like that walking around New York City, you know. 512 00:31:57,240 --> 00:32:00,320 Speaker 1: The New York Zodiac Eddie Sada was brought to is 513 00:32:00,440 --> 00:32:04,280 Speaker 1: six years after his first known crime for the victims 514 00:32:04,320 --> 00:32:07,760 Speaker 1: of the original Zodiac killings. This justice has yet to 515 00:32:07,800 --> 00:32:12,360 Speaker 1: be found. Fifty years later, Zodiologists still travel to the 516 00:32:12,400 --> 00:32:17,960 Speaker 1: murder sites each year to remember these victims. You got 517 00:32:18,000 --> 00:32:20,720 Speaker 1: you guys. Like the crosses, the one on the LEFTO 518 00:32:20,720 --> 00:32:24,280 Speaker 1: courses for for David and it says rest in peace, David, 519 00:32:24,400 --> 00:32:28,000 Speaker 1: A f for Arthur Faraday, and then the one on 520 00:32:28,040 --> 00:32:31,920 Speaker 1: the right is done in pink for Betty Lou and 521 00:32:31,960 --> 00:32:35,440 Speaker 1: it says rest in peace Betty Lou. On the ribbons, 522 00:32:34,760 --> 00:32:38,360 Speaker 1: it shows that we really do care that they they 523 00:32:38,360 --> 00:32:42,400 Speaker 1: haven't been forgotten, you know, And that's what we want, 524 00:32:42,800 --> 00:32:45,960 Speaker 1: you know, something to show that we have not forgotten, 525 00:32:46,000 --> 00:32:49,560 Speaker 1: even though it's been fifty years. We will commemorate the 526 00:32:49,600 --> 00:32:53,840 Speaker 1: time that they were shot dead for no purpose apparently, 527 00:32:54,440 --> 00:32:57,120 Speaker 1: and the perpetrator has still not been identified or brought 528 00:32:57,160 --> 00:33:03,320 Speaker 1: to justice. There's a complete seless tragedy. We want to 529 00:33:03,360 --> 00:33:06,800 Speaker 1: remember David Faraday and Betty Luke Jensen on this anniversary. 530 00:33:08,120 --> 00:33:12,040 Speaker 1: DNA helped the authorities to definitively pin the murders on Zeta. 531 00:33:12,840 --> 00:33:16,920 Speaker 1: For many, this technology brings hope that justice will finally 532 00:33:16,960 --> 00:33:23,360 Speaker 1: be served for the victims of the original Zodiac. We're 533 00:33:23,360 --> 00:33:24,880 Speaker 1: just waiting on at DNA to come back, you know. 534 00:33:24,920 --> 00:33:27,000 Speaker 1: I mean, there's been so many suspects over the years. 535 00:33:27,560 --> 00:33:30,240 Speaker 1: Everybody looks good on paper at some point, but then 536 00:33:30,240 --> 00:33:33,360 Speaker 1: you always find something that just seemed to discount them. Soon. 537 00:33:37,600 --> 00:33:41,320 Speaker 1: If it did come back negative, two things, you might 538 00:33:41,360 --> 00:33:44,760 Speaker 1: try to try again, which I doubt because layos so 539 00:33:44,880 --> 00:33:49,000 Speaker 1: broke they're in with or you know, they would have 540 00:33:49,040 --> 00:33:52,560 Speaker 1: said something to somebody. Somebody would have handed to us 541 00:33:52,560 --> 00:33:58,280 Speaker 1: that something's wrong. It's either still in the works, which 542 00:33:58,320 --> 00:34:00,880 Speaker 1: takes time, as we know, and people need to be 543 00:34:00,960 --> 00:34:03,600 Speaker 1: patient on that. Maybe they do have samples that they're 544 00:34:03,600 --> 00:34:23,279 Speaker 1: of suspects that they're ready to go with next time 545 00:34:23,560 --> 00:34:26,640 Speaker 1: on Monster the Zodiac Killer twenty three and Me is 546 00:34:26,680 --> 00:34:30,480 Speaker 1: a consumer genetics testing service, so anybody can order a 547 00:34:30,520 --> 00:34:33,239 Speaker 1: test online spit in a tube, but it's quite a 548 00:34:33,280 --> 00:34:35,440 Speaker 1: large bit of spit. It takes about thirty minutes to 549 00:34:35,480 --> 00:34:39,239 Speaker 1: fill up the whole tube. From a genealogy standpoint, what 550 00:34:39,360 --> 00:34:42,440 Speaker 1: you're trying to do is you're trying to find people 551 00:34:43,320 --> 00:34:47,200 Speaker 1: that are the same as you for segments of those DNA, 552 00:34:48,280 --> 00:34:52,800 Speaker 1: and the more DNA that is the same between people, 553 00:34:53,040 --> 00:34:57,359 Speaker 1: the more closely related they are. In the Golden State 554 00:34:57,480 --> 00:35:00,160 Speaker 1: Killer case, you're talking about a semen sample the was 555 00:35:00,239 --> 00:35:03,640 Speaker 1: left behind it the murder scene. That's a very good 556 00:35:03,680 --> 00:35:07,439 Speaker 1: source of DNA, whereas if you had DNA like from 557 00:35:07,440 --> 00:35:11,400 Speaker 1: fingernails or under fingernails, that was a higher chance in 558 00:35:11,480 --> 00:35:14,560 Speaker 1: a lower risk. And I think this stamp is probably 559 00:35:14,680 --> 00:35:18,759 Speaker 1: medium because you never can tell where the stamp has been. 560 00:35:19,920 --> 00:35:24,000 Speaker 1: We haven't had any real updates on this case in 561 00:35:24,239 --> 00:35:32,600 Speaker 1: many years. Monster the Zodiac Killer is a fifteen episode 562 00:35:32,640 --> 00:35:37,239 Speaker 1: podcast produced by iHeart Radio, How Stuff Works and Tenderfoot TV. 563 00:35:38,040 --> 00:35:41,000 Speaker 1: Donald Albright and I our executive producers on behalf of 564 00:35:41,000 --> 00:35:46,160 Speaker 1: Tenderfoot TV, alongside producers Meredith Stepmon, Mason Lindsay, and Christina Dana. 565 00:35:46,680 --> 00:35:49,800 Speaker 1: Jason Hope is executive producer on behalf of How Stuff Works, 566 00:35:50,160 --> 00:35:54,000 Speaker 1: along with producers Trevor Young, Miranda Hawkins, ben Kybrick, and 567 00:35:54,120 --> 00:35:59,240 Speaker 1: Josh Thane. Scott Benjamin provides additional voice talent. Matt Frederick 568 00:35:59,520 --> 00:36:03,120 Speaker 1: is our Hope. Original music is by Makeup and Vanity Set. 569 00:36:04,160 --> 00:36:06,160 Speaker 1: If you haven't already, make sure to check out the 570 00:36:06,200 --> 00:36:09,360 Speaker 1: first season of Monster called Atlantic Monster, about the Atlantic 571 00:36:09,440 --> 00:36:12,160 Speaker 1: child murders from the late seventies to the early eighties. 572 00:36:12,520 --> 00:36:16,360 Speaker 1: Download the ten episode season right now. Have questions or comments, 573 00:36:16,680 --> 00:36:20,480 Speaker 1: email us at Monster at how stuff works dot com, 574 00:36:20,600 --> 00:36:23,239 Speaker 1: or you can call us at one eight three three 575 00:36:23,800 --> 00:36:27,240 Speaker 1: eight five six six six seven. Thanks for listening.