WEBVTT - Part Three: G. Gordon Liddy: The Fascist Behind Watergate

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<v Speaker 1>Also media.

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<v Speaker 2>Ah, that's probably a bad way to open the nineteenth

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<v Speaker 2>most popular podcast on the Internet.

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<v Speaker 1>I wanted to say that.

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<v Speaker 2>Today I did, I did. I did ever since you

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<v Speaker 2>sent me that thing, So if you have been trying,

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<v Speaker 2>I wanted to work it in organically though, right. Otherwise

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<v Speaker 2>people would think that we're you know, we're losing our

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<v Speaker 2>minds from the fat Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>Hell yeah, but we are number nine to Andrew.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh my god, congratulngratulations to us. Yeah from us.

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<v Speaker 1>We're not lying.

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<v Speaker 2>This is like when I buy myself a Christmas present.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, just like a little treat. It's like it's like

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<v Speaker 3>getting an extra extra donut. Yeah, yeah, an extra donut something.

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<v Speaker 2>Andrew t what how goes? How goes the strike? Andrew? Uh,

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<v Speaker 2>still striking?

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<v Speaker 3>I brought a a second dog to the picket line

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<v Speaker 3>on Friday.

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<v Speaker 2>A second dog has hit the picket line. She was

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<v Speaker 2>a huge hit. That's good. That's good. That's good. That's

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<v Speaker 2>all I mean.

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<v Speaker 3>As of this episode coming out, we're closer to Its

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<v Speaker 3>potentially possible that the strike is.

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<v Speaker 2>Over by the time you hear this. I would give

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<v Speaker 2>it fifteen percent chance the strike is over. And this

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<v Speaker 2>is all silly. This intro but again, if the strike

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<v Speaker 2>is over, we will cut in an ad for a

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<v Speaker 2>random television show you know exactly. Y. Yeah, it'll be good. Andrew.

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<v Speaker 2>As we speak this to great Hollywood celebrities, real like

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<v Speaker 2>titans of the industry, just announced that they were bringing

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<v Speaker 2>their shows back and then got curb stopped the verbal

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<v Speaker 2>equivalent of curb stopped. Yes, yeah, Is that funny or not?

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<v Speaker 2>How are you Where are you landing on that? I

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<v Speaker 2>because where I'm sitting, I think it was pretty funny.

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<v Speaker 2>I the the about face came so quickly that it

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<v Speaker 2>was really like two days yeah.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, so so that that kind of like the whiplash

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<v Speaker 3>of it. I think the the equally funny part is

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<v Speaker 3>everyone having to kind of walk back congratulations or walk

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<v Speaker 3>back the things they said to Drew Barrymore, who I

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<v Speaker 3>think people largely still kind of like, and then also

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<v Speaker 3>not really doing the equivalent for Bill Maher.

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>I don't know. The not funny side of it is

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<v Speaker 1>the telling people that they can start working again when

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<v Speaker 1>they actually can't and yes, and like that's that's the

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<v Speaker 1>people that are not you know, sagger wga that work

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<v Speaker 1>on sets, and being like, oh, you're gonna get to

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<v Speaker 1>come back to work and the answer is no, you're not,

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<v Speaker 1>and I'm just a selfless narcissist.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, there there was no good reason for any of this.

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<v Speaker 3>I mean, the the Drew Barrymore of it. It's I'm

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<v Speaker 3>just going to give I guess her the benefit of

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<v Speaker 3>the doubt and say she was probably deceived over what

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<v Speaker 3>the rules are. And I will equally assume that Bill Maher,

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<v Speaker 3>given his personal politics, he would have scabbed sooner. He

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<v Speaker 3>just didn't have the opportunity his seeson.

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<v Speaker 1>Is there anybody else that would have loved to have

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<v Speaker 1>scabbed more than Bill Maher, I don't know.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, yeah, So whatever they have on him, it's very legit.

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<v Speaker 3>But yeah, no, I mean because he would have been

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<v Speaker 3>just straight up openly scabbing, whereas Drew Barrymore would have

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<v Speaker 3>been like functionally almost certainly scabbing on some level, but

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<v Speaker 3>in a much more difficult to prove way. But you know,

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<v Speaker 3>Bill Maher is a member of the Writers Guild.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, yeah, fuck. Bill Maher is more or less

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<v Speaker 2>where we're heading here. You know, like Bill Maher, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>you know who has been consistent in their principles all

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<v Speaker 2>of their lives is g Gordon Lyddy, the g Man Liddy. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>he never uh, he's always been been honest about who

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<v Speaker 2>he is. Yeah, that's not a great thing, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>it's like, but it is a thing. Yeah, you gotta

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<v Speaker 2>you gotta acknowledge that. So when we when we last

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<v Speaker 2>left off the g Man, uh, he had joined the

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<v Speaker 2>FBI compared it directly to the s S in a

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<v Speaker 2>positive sense, favorably, Yeah, favorably. Yeah, as America's protective echelon.

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<v Speaker 2>So he's in Indiana a while, he learns how to

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<v Speaker 2>cowboy gun fight from these great cowboy gunfighters and then

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<v Speaker 2>the uh and then he totally gets super close to

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<v Speaker 2>needing to use his handgun, but he never quite has to.

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<v Speaker 2>But what he does have like multiple stories where he like,

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<v Speaker 2>it's everything up to and then like but then before

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<v Speaker 2>I I could pull my gun, you know, the situation ended,

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<v Speaker 2>so everything was fine. Well, maybe we don't need to

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<v Speaker 2>hear about that. Then that's not very interesting. G Gordon Liddy.

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<v Speaker 2>So he gets transferred to Denver. After that, he's involved

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<v Speaker 2>in he is involved in the arrest of at least

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<v Speaker 2>one major criminal. One of these guys that's on the

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<v Speaker 2>FBI's most wanted list, and then based according to his

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<v Speaker 2>recitation of events, he gets transferred to FBI headquarters in DC,

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<v Speaker 2>and he becomes incredibly close with j Edgar Hoover, so

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<v Speaker 2>close that all of the older agents are jealous because

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<v Speaker 2>Hoover wants to spend a lot of time with Lyddy

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<v Speaker 2>and not them. So that's not what happened. And again

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<v Speaker 2>this is thankfully, this is what I'm not going into

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<v Speaker 2>as much detail about what Liddy claims because we have

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<v Speaker 2>other sources on his time in the FBI and they

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<v Speaker 2>are very different than what he claims. So he is

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<v Speaker 2>involved in one high profile arrest, but there's evidence that

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<v Speaker 2>his superiors like they had issues with his errat and

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<v Speaker 2>irrational behavior. One of his supervisors described him as a

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<v Speaker 2>wild man and a super klutz basically just like, yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>this guy is kind of out of his mind. And

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<v Speaker 2>he's also like he fucks up constantly, Like whenever he's

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<v Speaker 2>given a chance to do something, he's going to make

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<v Speaker 2>some stupid mistake. He's like a Nazi Elmer. That is

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<v Speaker 2>like really, it's a great comparison. And so the kind

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<v Speaker 2>of attitude that like some of these people who like

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<v Speaker 2>supervise him is is like, yeah, he just he couldn't

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<v Speaker 2>be relied on. And because it's you know, this is

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<v Speaker 2>the FBI. Right, one thing the FBI, especially under Hoover,

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<v Speaker 2>was good at was not leaking shit. So we don't

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<v Speaker 2>have as much detail as I'd like on what specifically

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<v Speaker 2>he fucked up, But given that this is consistent with

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<v Speaker 2>his performance later in life, I'm going to choose to

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<v Speaker 2>side with his superiors here rather than claim that he

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<v Speaker 2>was just super good at the FBI. Yeah. Yeah, And

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<v Speaker 2>this makes if he's if he really is just like

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<v Speaker 2>kind of incompetent, it makes his transfer to DC makes

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<v Speaker 2>sense because like that is kind of what they did

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<v Speaker 2>a lot to guys who were bad at being in

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<v Speaker 2>the field, Like you move from a place where you

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<v Speaker 2>can kind of you can keep track of them. Like

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<v Speaker 2>he gets he gets transferred to the record division, which

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<v Speaker 2>is like that's where you put a dude you can't

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<v Speaker 2>fire for some reason, but who like can't be trusted

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<v Speaker 2>out with a gun.

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<v Speaker 3>That's like the punishment in like the second act of

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<v Speaker 3>a loose cannon cop movie.

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<v Speaker 2>Right, Like that is, yes, go file some papers, g

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<v Speaker 2>Gordon Lyddy, get them, stay the fuck away from from

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<v Speaker 2>the world. Lyddy would go on to claim that he

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<v Speaker 2>was the youngest bureau supervisor in agency history. You'll see

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<v Speaker 2>this sighted in like write ups of his career periodically,

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<v Speaker 2>but they only ever cite him. So I'm gonna go

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<v Speaker 2>ahead and say that's probably either not true or not impressive. Right,

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<v Speaker 2>he did get a couple of like commendations from Hoover,

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<v Speaker 2>but like, that's not it doesn't appear to be that

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<v Speaker 2>big a deal. Wikipedia also lists those claims as citations needed,

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<v Speaker 2>So again, not gonna go out on a limb and

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<v Speaker 2>say he was definitely awarded by Hoover. Former FBI officials

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<v Speaker 2>interviewed by journalist Anthony Lucas later would claim that Liddy

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<v Speaker 2>got pushed out of the FBI because he was seen

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<v Speaker 2>as dangerous and unreliable. You know, we don't get tons

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<v Speaker 2>of detail on what exactly caused him to get pushed out,

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<v Speaker 2>but there are some pieces from Lyddy's autobiography that may

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<v Speaker 2>suggest why. For example, this line, my son Jim was

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<v Speaker 2>born in April of nineteen sixty one, and I was

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<v Speaker 2>so elated at finally having a boy that when I

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<v Speaker 2>thought about it the next day, driving through an unpopulated area,

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<v Speaker 2>I stopped the car and fired three rounds into the

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<v Speaker 2>air and a private ceremony of celebration, just firing his

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<v Speaker 2>service weapon randomly into the sky to celebrate. Yeah, unpopulated area.

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<v Speaker 3>Okay, lyddy man, it is it is wild. Having done

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<v Speaker 3>the show a few times now, how much of history's

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<v Speaker 3>damage has been done by huge nerds?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, just a big old dork.

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<v Speaker 3>It's really like they Yeah, I mean I guess that's why.

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<v Speaker 3>But it's you know, we're not We're not cruel enough

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<v Speaker 3>to nerds.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm realizing. No, that's yeah. I think we need like

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<v Speaker 2>a national conversation about how to be crueler to them. Though, yes, yes, yes, yes,

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<v Speaker 2>what's the what's the actual appropriate way to handle this? Right?

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<v Speaker 2>That's the problem is the wrong people are bullies? Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>the wrong because you, like, somebody needed to g Gordon

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<v Speaker 2>Liddy needed more shame of the things that were going

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<v Speaker 2>on in his head. He needed to feel worse in

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<v Speaker 2>a specific way about himself. But like if you just

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<v Speaker 2>had again, like a kid, just like shoving him into

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<v Speaker 2>a locker at school, that's not going to work on

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<v Speaker 2>this guy. You need there needs to be some more

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<v Speaker 2>like art to it, you know. But really his dad,

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<v Speaker 2>I don't know, I don't know how you like get

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<v Speaker 2>Like I think if his dad had been more aware

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<v Speaker 2>of the kind of shit going on in his brain,

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<v Speaker 2>he could have like shamed it out of him, Like, right,

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<v Speaker 2>what are you doing shooting your handgun in the air

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<v Speaker 2>to celebrate having a kid? Give me that gun? Give

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<v Speaker 2>me that gun? Gordon like, I'm keeping.

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<v Speaker 4>This no gun privileges until you're not allowed to have this,

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<v Speaker 4>it's pretty cool, and he like he goes on this

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<v Speaker 4>rant in his book about how like at the FBI,

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<v Speaker 4>you know, you're allowed to carry a gun off duty

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<v Speaker 4>and you don't have to, but if you're in a

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<v Speaker 4>bad situation, if something happens around you and you're not

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<v Speaker 4>able to stop it because you don't have a gun,

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<v Speaker 4>you get in trouble.

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<v Speaker 2>So I always had my gun. He just he needs you.

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<v Speaker 2>And again, there's never any like it's one of those

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<v Speaker 2>like it feels almost like he's setting up something that's

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<v Speaker 2>gonna happen later. But g Gordon Liddy never had any

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<v Speaker 2>cause to use a firearm in his entire life, Like,

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<v Speaker 2>at no point was this even remotely necessary for him.

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<v Speaker 2>So he's this is all just pointless. He just needs

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<v Speaker 2>you to know that he carried a gun around for

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<v Speaker 2>several years.

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<v Speaker 3>God, I know the the like they like, oh no, no,

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<v Speaker 3>I need this because if I don't fucking save the day,

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<v Speaker 3>I'm going to get in trouble. It's like, yeah, still

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<v Speaker 3>somehow Weasley, which is amazing.

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<v Speaker 2>It's just like, yeah, it's so funny. So Lyddy claims

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<v Speaker 2>that everyone at the FBI loved him, but he just

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<v Speaker 2>wasn't making enough money to support his growing family because

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<v Speaker 2>his wife. His wife is popping out kids at an

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<v Speaker 2>alarming rate, right, she is like putting out new liddies

0:11:34.679 --> 0:11:37.600
<v Speaker 2>at the same speed with which he is firing bullets wildly,

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<v Speaker 2>and this becomes a problem, he says, for their for

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<v Speaker 2>their bottom line, and so you know, he decides to quit,

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<v Speaker 2>and the FBI is like, we love you. Letty, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>come back anytime. We'd love to have you again. We've

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<v Speaker 2>we've stamped your paperwork with a special thing that means

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<v Speaker 2>you can come back anytime you want. People within the

0:11:58.760 --> 0:12:01.040
<v Speaker 2>FBI are like, yeah, we were doing everything we could

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<v Speaker 2>to force him to leave. So you know that said,

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<v Speaker 2>I do think there's probably a good chance his family

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<v Speaker 2>financial situation is not great one of these reasons might

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<v Speaker 2>be and again this is a reading between the lines,

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<v Speaker 2>but every time he talks about his gun collection, it's

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<v Speaker 2>like very large. So part of this may just be

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<v Speaker 2>that he's spending all of his child money on new handguns. Now,

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<v Speaker 2>the central issue is that Lyddy and his wife are

0:12:27.520 --> 0:12:30.480
<v Speaker 2>devout Catholics. Now, I don't know if you know much

0:12:30.480 --> 0:12:33.760
<v Speaker 2>about Catholics, but Catholics, like all humans, like to fuck,

0:12:33.840 --> 0:12:36.960
<v Speaker 2>and Catholics, unlike most humans, are not allowed to use

0:12:36.960 --> 0:12:40.120
<v Speaker 2>birth control. Right, So this is part of why there's

0:12:40.120 --> 0:12:45.280
<v Speaker 2>a round a billion of Catholics, you know. So Lyddy

0:12:45.320 --> 0:12:47.560
<v Speaker 2>and his wife they try to use the rhythm method

0:12:47.640 --> 0:12:51.560
<v Speaker 2>to avoid having more kids, and he can't write that like, well,

0:12:51.600 --> 0:12:54.360
<v Speaker 2>the rhythm method's clearly bullshit, So he just writes that, like, well,

0:12:54.360 --> 0:12:56.439
<v Speaker 2>it didn't work for us, you know, we had after

0:12:56.520 --> 0:12:58.960
<v Speaker 2>four children, it had become clear that the rhythm method

0:12:59.000 --> 0:13:02.440
<v Speaker 2>does not work for my Maybe it just doesn't work,

0:13:02.480 --> 0:13:05.600
<v Speaker 2>g Gordon Liddy. Maybe it's a bad method of birth. God,

0:13:06.280 --> 0:13:08.520
<v Speaker 2>hey everyone, my phrasing hair was not great. I didn't

0:13:08.520 --> 0:13:11.160
<v Speaker 2>mean to say that the rhythm method like can't work.

0:13:11.480 --> 0:13:15.439
<v Speaker 2>You know, obviously biologically it does it's just that realistically,

0:13:15.559 --> 0:13:18.480
<v Speaker 2>I don't think it is an effective method of birth control,

0:13:18.520 --> 0:13:21.760
<v Speaker 2>particularly for people in long term relationships. I think G

0:13:21.960 --> 0:13:25.600
<v Speaker 2>Gordon Liddie's case is a pretty good example of this.

0:13:25.840 --> 0:13:28.880
<v Speaker 2>There are a lot of others, but obviously, like biologically,

0:13:28.920 --> 0:13:31.520
<v Speaker 2>if you were to do it perfectly, it would work.

0:13:31.679 --> 0:13:35.760
<v Speaker 2>It's just not a very good idea compared to modern

0:13:35.800 --> 0:13:36.840
<v Speaker 2>forms of contraception.

0:13:37.880 --> 0:13:41.000
<v Speaker 3>And what are most opportunity to talk about what amazing

0:13:41.040 --> 0:13:43.440
<v Speaker 3>sperm he has. You know, he could have just claimed

0:13:43.480 --> 0:13:45.319
<v Speaker 3>he was unbelievably fertile.

0:13:45.440 --> 0:13:49.800
<v Speaker 2>He's just too potent. Yeah. No, the fact that the

0:13:49.880 --> 0:13:51.800
<v Speaker 2>rhythm method doesn't work is not really This is not

0:13:51.840 --> 0:13:53.720
<v Speaker 2>really a problem for g Gordon Liddy because he wanted

0:13:53.760 --> 0:13:57.400
<v Speaker 2>six children and he claims that fran did two, and

0:13:57.480 --> 0:14:00.480
<v Speaker 2>in true g Gordon Liddy fashion, his reasoning for wanting

0:14:00.520 --> 0:14:04.800
<v Speaker 2>six kids is some of the craziest shit I've ever read. Quote.

0:14:05.200 --> 0:14:07.800
<v Speaker 2>She had grown up as a lonely only child. I

0:14:07.840 --> 0:14:09.400
<v Speaker 2>had a sister and a cousin who was a de

0:14:09.520 --> 0:14:11.880
<v Speaker 2>facto brother, and I missed a large number of people

0:14:11.880 --> 0:14:14.680
<v Speaker 2>always present at home. I was also aware that children

0:14:14.679 --> 0:14:17.800
<v Speaker 2>can be lost to sickness, accident, or war. And six

0:14:17.840 --> 0:14:20.840
<v Speaker 2>would raise substantially the probability that at least some offspring

0:14:20.920 --> 0:14:24.200
<v Speaker 2>would survive. Just as important, I recognize that a child

0:14:24.200 --> 0:14:26.840
<v Speaker 2>can lose itself through failure of the will to achieve,

0:14:26.920 --> 0:14:29.240
<v Speaker 2>and that having six would make it easier to accept

0:14:29.440 --> 0:14:33.040
<v Speaker 2>and write off such a living death as well. Yeah,

0:14:33.440 --> 0:14:35.360
<v Speaker 2>you need more kids so you can write them off

0:14:35.400 --> 0:14:38.880
<v Speaker 2>if one of them is a dead person while alive still, well,

0:14:39.200 --> 0:14:40.880
<v Speaker 2>I think he just caught on some level.

0:14:40.920 --> 0:14:44.000
<v Speaker 3>Those he's bringing real loser jenes to the table, So

0:14:44.080 --> 0:14:45.720
<v Speaker 3>he's really hatging his bets.

0:14:46.320 --> 0:14:49.760
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, you gotta be careful if you're like bringing liddly

0:14:49.880 --> 0:14:53.440
<v Speaker 2>grad genetics to the table, because it's that kid's just

0:14:53.480 --> 0:14:54.480
<v Speaker 2>got to be a fuck up.

0:14:55.080 --> 0:14:58.320
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, it's just tough's he brings fuck up to the table.

0:14:58.480 --> 0:15:00.600
<v Speaker 3>So you like, you know, you break out the Punnett

0:15:00.600 --> 0:15:06.400
<v Speaker 3>square a little bit of the recessive traits. Yeah, the

0:15:07.000 --> 0:15:09.000
<v Speaker 3>math that got him personally to six.

0:15:09.400 --> 0:15:10.360
<v Speaker 2>I would love to see.

0:15:10.360 --> 0:15:13.120
<v Speaker 3>I'd love to see his little scroll notebook, like one

0:15:13.240 --> 0:15:14.920
<v Speaker 3>loser one he dead.

0:15:15.080 --> 0:15:16.760
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, there are one. At least one of them is

0:15:16.760 --> 0:15:18.960
<v Speaker 2>gonna you know, lose them, lose their mind, So we

0:15:19.040 --> 0:15:21.640
<v Speaker 2>gotta we write one off and being liddy's a good

0:15:21.640 --> 0:15:23.480
<v Speaker 2>at three of them are going to die in a war,

0:15:23.640 --> 0:15:26.880
<v Speaker 2>so that gives us two that make it to yeah two,

0:15:26.960 --> 0:15:30.560
<v Speaker 2>and then one of them is a natural loser. So yeah, yeah, exactly,

0:15:31.040 --> 0:15:33.200
<v Speaker 2>this is just the minimum we need, you know, just

0:15:33.240 --> 0:15:36.440
<v Speaker 2>given given my worthless genes, this is the only way

0:15:36.480 --> 0:15:42.480
<v Speaker 2>to share enough liddies survive. Oh yes, it's it's it's

0:15:42.560 --> 0:15:45.200
<v Speaker 2>a logic like this that has ensured that we still

0:15:45.200 --> 0:15:51.880
<v Speaker 2>have g Gordon liddies today everybody. So yeah, Now, unfortunately,

0:15:52.120 --> 0:15:56.680
<v Speaker 2>Fran's body does not handle multiple pregnancies in quick succession

0:15:56.800 --> 0:15:59.280
<v Speaker 2>very well, right, And yeah, I don't say that to

0:15:59.400 --> 0:16:02.960
<v Speaker 2>like make what four kids. I think eventually five in

0:16:03.560 --> 0:16:07.360
<v Speaker 2>you know the space of like five years is too

0:16:07.360 --> 0:16:10.160
<v Speaker 2>many kids, maybe, like maybe you shouldn't have that many

0:16:10.240 --> 0:16:13.520
<v Speaker 2>kids that quickly. That's a lot to deal with. She

0:16:13.640 --> 0:16:16.600
<v Speaker 2>dealt with increasing pain each time, and eventually their doctor

0:16:16.680 --> 0:16:20.720
<v Speaker 2>sits them down and is like she could die, right,

0:16:20.840 --> 0:16:23.000
<v Speaker 2>like this is like she can't have any more kids,

0:16:23.040 --> 0:16:26.560
<v Speaker 2>you know, like this is we need to stop here.

0:16:27.000 --> 0:16:29.880
<v Speaker 2>So you know, eventually they shop around for a Catholic

0:16:29.960 --> 0:16:32.480
<v Speaker 2>priest because they want a priest who will advise them

0:16:32.480 --> 0:16:34.880
<v Speaker 2>that it's okay for her to take birth control, because

0:16:35.080 --> 0:16:39.120
<v Speaker 2>you know, these things go. They have one more kid

0:16:39.280 --> 0:16:42.760
<v Speaker 2>during this process, but Lyddy decides to give up after that.

0:16:43.040 --> 0:16:47.440
<v Speaker 2>And this may be the most like Moonman ass piece

0:16:47.480 --> 0:16:51.400
<v Speaker 2>of reasoning that I have encountered in his book. Although

0:16:51.480 --> 0:16:53.480
<v Speaker 2>one of the reasons I had chosen Francis to be

0:16:53.520 --> 0:16:55.880
<v Speaker 2>the mother of my children was her size and strength,

0:16:55.920 --> 0:16:59.320
<v Speaker 2>which should have enabled her to bear half a dozen

0:16:59.400 --> 0:17:03.240
<v Speaker 2>hyperform Orman's children, I certainly had not intended to risk

0:17:03.360 --> 0:17:08.480
<v Speaker 2>damage by pushing her to her design limit. Oh no,

0:17:08.520 --> 0:17:11.760
<v Speaker 2>you're not to talk that way about their wives, g

0:17:11.960 --> 0:17:17.600
<v Speaker 2>Gordon Lyddy. He's like actual Marvin the Martian m He's

0:17:17.600 --> 0:17:20.600
<v Speaker 2>talking like about his his his ill wife and his

0:17:20.720 --> 0:17:24.480
<v Speaker 2>children as if he's like a fucking GM factory.

0:17:25.040 --> 0:17:29.119
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, designs limitation, their design limit.

0:17:29.680 --> 0:17:32.440
<v Speaker 2>She should have been putting out six high performance children

0:17:32.480 --> 0:17:33.639
<v Speaker 2>by this period.

0:17:35.880 --> 0:17:41.600
<v Speaker 3>So high performance asterisk Lyddy failure rate exactly all.

0:17:41.440 --> 0:17:44.000
<v Speaker 2>Of these kids should already be shooting handguns into the

0:17:44.000 --> 0:17:48.399
<v Speaker 2>air at random. They haven't hurted any squirrels. So he

0:17:49.160 --> 0:17:52.640
<v Speaker 2>quits the FBI and takes a gig with his dad's firm,

0:17:52.720 --> 0:17:54.919
<v Speaker 2>where he immediately gets a huge raise. So this is

0:17:55.080 --> 0:17:57.280
<v Speaker 2>again the only job that would take him, I think,

0:17:57.400 --> 0:18:00.399
<v Speaker 2>is how I interpret this. He says his day was

0:18:00.440 --> 0:18:02.359
<v Speaker 2>desperate for him to come work for them, and like

0:18:02.440 --> 0:18:04.640
<v Speaker 2>had been just trying for years and was so happy.

0:18:04.840 --> 0:18:06.800
<v Speaker 2>But he also writes that, like as soon as he

0:18:06.840 --> 0:18:10.240
<v Speaker 2>gets to work there, they start fighting every It destroys

0:18:10.280 --> 0:18:14.240
<v Speaker 2>their relationship because his dad like cannot stand him as

0:18:14.359 --> 0:18:17.439
<v Speaker 2>like a business partner. And my guess is going to

0:18:17.480 --> 0:18:19.959
<v Speaker 2>be because he keeps suggesting crazy shit that would get

0:18:19.960 --> 0:18:22.080
<v Speaker 2>them both thrown in prison, and like his dad has

0:18:22.080 --> 0:18:26.000
<v Speaker 2>constantly no, you have to not do that. Seems likely, Yeah,

0:18:26.040 --> 0:18:29.720
<v Speaker 2>seems like good direction. She was like the g man. Yeah.

0:18:30.000 --> 0:18:32.960
<v Speaker 2>So his description is that despite the fact that he's

0:18:33.119 --> 0:18:35.359
<v Speaker 2>very good at this job, he has to quit this

0:18:35.440 --> 0:18:38.119
<v Speaker 2>as well to save his relationship with his father and

0:18:38.240 --> 0:18:41.760
<v Speaker 2>go into public practice as a for a DA's office

0:18:41.800 --> 0:18:46.080
<v Speaker 2>in New York State in order to preserve their relationship. Now,

0:18:46.119 --> 0:18:47.639
<v Speaker 2>by the point that he does this, this is like

0:18:47.720 --> 0:18:50.160
<v Speaker 2>sixty two or sixty three something like that, the swing

0:18:50.200 --> 0:18:52.960
<v Speaker 2>in sixties are well underway, and our boy is starting

0:18:53.000 --> 0:18:55.639
<v Speaker 2>to pay attention to the resistance that has built in

0:18:55.680 --> 0:18:58.520
<v Speaker 2>the country to the involvement of US troops in a

0:18:58.560 --> 0:19:02.800
<v Speaker 2>little country I might have heard of called Vietnam. You know,

0:19:02.880 --> 0:19:06.680
<v Speaker 2>if you're unaware, Vietnam is a country in Southeast Asia

0:19:06.720 --> 0:19:13.880
<v Speaker 2>that we had a disagreement with and they want Yeah,

0:19:13.920 --> 0:19:18.320
<v Speaker 2>so this had started. The whole kerfuffle in Vietnam had

0:19:18.320 --> 0:19:20.720
<v Speaker 2>started due to the failure of French forces to maintain

0:19:20.800 --> 0:19:23.919
<v Speaker 2>control of Indo China and a bunch of unhinged fears

0:19:23.960 --> 0:19:28.120
<v Speaker 2>among US policymakers that the spread of communism in Vietnam

0:19:28.160 --> 0:19:31.040
<v Speaker 2>would lead to a series of falling dominoes that ended

0:19:31.080 --> 0:19:35.159
<v Speaker 2>with a unified communist Asia under China. Now, if you

0:19:35.680 --> 0:19:38.320
<v Speaker 2>read Po Chi Minh, if you're aware at all of

0:19:38.359 --> 0:19:41.360
<v Speaker 2>like Vietnamese history, that was never in the carts, right,

0:19:41.520 --> 0:19:44.520
<v Speaker 2>The last thing anyone in Vietnam ever wanted was to

0:19:44.560 --> 0:19:48.560
<v Speaker 2>be part of like a Chinese dominated block. And they

0:19:48.640 --> 0:19:50.840
<v Speaker 2>immediately go to war with China as soon as they

0:19:50.920 --> 0:19:53.199
<v Speaker 2>kick us out, right, Like, that's the first thing that

0:19:53.320 --> 0:19:57.560
<v Speaker 2>Vietnam does after finishing us off is fight with China

0:19:57.720 --> 0:19:58.640
<v Speaker 2>and Cambodia.

0:19:59.200 --> 0:20:02.760
<v Speaker 3>You know, the this is this is a thing that

0:20:02.840 --> 0:20:05.520
<v Speaker 3>happens on Jos's racist all the time. Is that you know,

0:20:05.880 --> 0:20:08.480
<v Speaker 3>if these motherfuckers were less racist, they would be able

0:20:08.480 --> 0:20:12.200
<v Speaker 3>to achieve their imperialism gains better. They would have realized

0:20:13.040 --> 0:20:14.960
<v Speaker 3>not all these chinks love each other.

0:20:16.440 --> 0:20:18.960
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, there's a there's a there's a joke that I

0:20:19.000 --> 0:20:21.240
<v Speaker 2>saw going around Twitter recently, which is like, if somebody

0:20:21.240 --> 0:20:24.439
<v Speaker 2>could have explained, had explained to like the leaders of

0:20:24.760 --> 0:20:27.480
<v Speaker 2>Northern Vietnam right at the start of the war with

0:20:27.560 --> 0:20:30.919
<v Speaker 2>the US, that like in fifty years they'd be allied

0:20:30.960 --> 0:20:33.320
<v Speaker 2>with the US against China, they would have said, yeah,

0:20:33.320 --> 0:20:40.320
<v Speaker 2>sounds about right, Yeah, totally possible, absolutely could happen. Yeah, yeah,

0:20:40.400 --> 0:20:45.439
<v Speaker 2>this is their assholes. Yeah, this goes into we just

0:20:45.480 --> 0:20:48.280
<v Speaker 2>talked about this a little on our episodes about Scott

0:20:48.320 --> 0:20:51.400
<v Speaker 2>Adams's terrible books and his beliefs about the Muslim world.

0:20:51.480 --> 0:20:53.200
<v Speaker 2>But like, one of the things you need to keep

0:20:53.200 --> 0:20:56.239
<v Speaker 2>in mind, no matter what fucked up shit like a

0:20:56.320 --> 0:20:59.720
<v Speaker 2>foreign country far away is doing to a group of people,

0:21:00.520 --> 0:21:02.919
<v Speaker 2>those people are always in their hearts going to be

0:21:03.000 --> 0:21:05.840
<v Speaker 2>angrier at somebody who lives next door to them. That's

0:21:05.920 --> 0:21:08.240
<v Speaker 2>just the way human being. It's like the United States,

0:21:08.240 --> 0:21:11.399
<v Speaker 2>like we get we have our Panics over like Islam,

0:21:11.480 --> 0:21:14.800
<v Speaker 2>or our Panics over China, but like fucking people in

0:21:14.840 --> 0:21:17.920
<v Speaker 2>Texas always hate people in Oklahoma more than anyone else

0:21:18.000 --> 0:21:21.960
<v Speaker 2>on this planet. Like that's just the way it is.

0:21:23.680 --> 0:21:28.160
<v Speaker 3>Yeah yeah, no, or their neighbors or their neighbors city.

0:21:28.320 --> 0:21:31.720
<v Speaker 2>Yeah yeah yeah, those people are actually murdering or whatever. Yes,

0:21:32.359 --> 0:21:37.679
<v Speaker 2>this is just how humans work. So this is patent nonsense,

0:21:37.720 --> 0:21:40.840
<v Speaker 2>this whole domino theory. But arch warriors, like cold warriors

0:21:40.920 --> 0:21:44.040
<v Speaker 2>like G. Gordon Liddy, absolutely believed it. Here are some

0:21:44.160 --> 0:21:47.399
<v Speaker 2>other things that G. Gordon Liddy believed about Vietnam. This

0:21:47.480 --> 0:21:52.080
<v Speaker 2>is this is him summarizing the situation with France following

0:21:52.119 --> 0:21:54.000
<v Speaker 2>the close of World War Two, when the French were

0:21:54.000 --> 0:21:56.239
<v Speaker 2>fighting the viet Men and Indo China. They were at

0:21:56.240 --> 0:21:59.000
<v Speaker 2>first highly successful. That was because they were using the

0:21:59.040 --> 0:22:02.439
<v Speaker 2>foreign legion then manned almost completely by veterans from the

0:22:02.440 --> 0:22:06.600
<v Speaker 2>most disciplined, ruthlessly efficient practitioners of all that warfare and history,

0:22:06.920 --> 0:22:11.280
<v Speaker 2>the Waffen SS. It was only was made public and

0:22:11.320 --> 0:22:14.240
<v Speaker 2>political pressure forced their removal that the French began to lose.

0:22:15.359 --> 0:22:18.760
<v Speaker 2>He cannot, he cannot stop bringing up the SS. Like

0:22:18.880 --> 0:22:22.520
<v Speaker 2>almost every chapter, the SS comes up, and there's never

0:22:22.600 --> 0:22:25.320
<v Speaker 2>a good reason for it. And it's like, this is

0:22:25.359 --> 0:22:28.720
<v Speaker 2>the eighties, this is the eighties.

0:22:29.200 --> 0:22:32.159
<v Speaker 3>It's pretty I mean, this is kind of the last

0:22:32.200 --> 0:22:37.320
<v Speaker 3>time Nazis were basically universally froud upod. I would have thought,

0:22:38.080 --> 0:22:43.120
<v Speaker 3>amongst like Gordon Lyddy, Yeah, what do I.

0:22:43.119 --> 0:22:46.919
<v Speaker 2>Know this is? I should start by saying nonsense. It

0:22:47.000 --> 0:22:50.200
<v Speaker 2>is true. There were some members of the Waffen SS.

0:22:50.200 --> 0:22:52.480
<v Speaker 2>So the SS is like a state within a state

0:22:52.520 --> 0:22:55.680
<v Speaker 2>in Nazi Germany, right, They are this racial elite. They

0:22:56.000 --> 0:22:58.280
<v Speaker 2>have a huge amount of power in the political system.

0:22:58.480 --> 0:23:00.080
<v Speaker 2>They do a lot of like a lot of the

0:23:00.119 --> 0:23:02.840
<v Speaker 2>guys individual like people who are managing all of the

0:23:02.880 --> 0:23:06.560
<v Speaker 2>different police departments and stuff in Nazi Germany are members

0:23:06.560 --> 0:23:11.600
<v Speaker 2>of the SS. They also have, you know, they exercise

0:23:11.640 --> 0:23:14.240
<v Speaker 2>a lot of control over the industrial apparatus that was

0:23:14.320 --> 0:23:16.440
<v Speaker 2>kind of the goal that Himmler was building towards. And

0:23:16.440 --> 0:23:18.879
<v Speaker 2>in addition to using them to like breed more Arians,

0:23:19.320 --> 0:23:22.680
<v Speaker 2>there are divisions of the SS that also fight as

0:23:22.800 --> 0:23:26.040
<v Speaker 2>regular military units or kind of in a fashion similar

0:23:26.040 --> 0:23:28.439
<v Speaker 2>to and these guys are called the waffen SS. Waffen

0:23:28.520 --> 0:23:30.720
<v Speaker 2>just means weapons, right, So the Waffen SS is the

0:23:30.760 --> 0:23:34.320
<v Speaker 2>weapons SS. Right now, there are a lot of like

0:23:34.880 --> 0:23:36.760
<v Speaker 2>lies and myths. As we're about to talk about about

0:23:36.760 --> 0:23:40.000
<v Speaker 2>how well, the Waffen SS functions. The fact that the

0:23:40.040 --> 0:23:42.440
<v Speaker 2>foreign legions, some of these guys after the war wind

0:23:42.480 --> 0:23:45.800
<v Speaker 2>up in the foreign legion is not really weird, nor

0:23:45.920 --> 0:23:48.160
<v Speaker 2>is it out. It's not specifically even because of World

0:23:48.160 --> 0:23:51.240
<v Speaker 2>War Two, right, it's not because historically, if you look

0:23:51.240 --> 0:23:54.800
<v Speaker 2>at the foreign legion, it's usually like half or more

0:23:54.880 --> 0:23:58.480
<v Speaker 2>German guys. This is just like a thing about the

0:23:58.520 --> 0:24:01.240
<v Speaker 2>way it has always been constructed. The French foreign legion

0:24:01.240 --> 0:24:04.840
<v Speaker 2>has always been heavily Germanic. About sixty percent of it

0:24:04.920 --> 0:24:08.280
<v Speaker 2>in the post war period were Dutch, Austrian, Swiss, Belgian

0:24:08.600 --> 0:24:11.520
<v Speaker 2>or most commonly German. And there's a good chance that

0:24:11.560 --> 0:24:15.240
<v Speaker 2>about fifty thousand Germans cycled through French Indo China during

0:24:15.280 --> 0:24:17.800
<v Speaker 2>the post war stages of the conflict there, but that

0:24:17.840 --> 0:24:20.520
<v Speaker 2>doesn't tell the whole story. The Vietmen did like to

0:24:20.520 --> 0:24:23.840
<v Speaker 2>claim that all of their captive French soldiers were SS veterans,

0:24:23.840 --> 0:24:27.120
<v Speaker 2>but like that was a propaganda claim because no evidence

0:24:27.160 --> 0:24:29.639
<v Speaker 2>was ever provided of this. We do know that the

0:24:29.720 --> 0:24:34.520
<v Speaker 2>French military scanned for SS veterans, particularly after nineteen forty seven,

0:24:34.920 --> 0:24:38.240
<v Speaker 2>and since SS members had all had a tattoo, their

0:24:38.240 --> 0:24:40.720
<v Speaker 2>blood group was tattooed on them, it was easy to

0:24:40.840 --> 0:24:43.679
<v Speaker 2>find and deny them. Thus, the first wave of Legion

0:24:43.760 --> 0:24:46.399
<v Speaker 2>volunteers in Indo China would have included a lot of

0:24:46.440 --> 0:24:49.240
<v Speaker 2>Germans who had served who had been Nazi soldiers, right,

0:24:49.560 --> 0:24:51.920
<v Speaker 2>But very few of these guys would have been SS.

0:24:52.080 --> 0:24:55.280
<v Speaker 2>Much more of them are Wehrmacht Nazis. Right, As this

0:24:55.480 --> 0:24:58.920
<v Speaker 2>historian from the asked Historian subreddit noted, the Legion was

0:24:58.960 --> 0:25:01.680
<v Speaker 2>recruiting about ten thousand many a year, many of them

0:25:01.720 --> 0:25:04.720
<v Speaker 2>certainly Germans, but by the nineteen fifties, with the average

0:25:04.720 --> 0:25:07.359
<v Speaker 2>age of a legionnaire in the very early twenties, most

0:25:07.400 --> 0:25:09.960
<v Speaker 2>German recruits were young men simply trying to escape the

0:25:10.000 --> 0:25:12.560
<v Speaker 2>bleak situation in their home country, and the extent of

0:25:12.600 --> 0:25:15.320
<v Speaker 2>their involvement with the Nazi Party was their membership in

0:25:15.359 --> 0:25:17.879
<v Speaker 2>the Hitler Youth as children. Now, I'm not doing this

0:25:17.920 --> 0:25:20.760
<v Speaker 2>to defend the reputation of the Foreign Legion, right, because

0:25:21.240 --> 0:25:23.760
<v Speaker 2>there's a lot that's messed up about that unit. This

0:25:23.840 --> 0:25:26.760
<v Speaker 2>is more important because of the specific way in which

0:25:26.800 --> 0:25:30.199
<v Speaker 2>Liddy is wrong about like both the presence that like

0:25:30.280 --> 0:25:32.600
<v Speaker 2>all of the guys fighting in French Indo China in

0:25:32.720 --> 0:25:36.440
<v Speaker 2>the late forties were SS veterans and they were really good.

0:25:36.480 --> 0:25:38.080
<v Speaker 2>You know, if they just stayed in there, they would

0:25:38.080 --> 0:25:40.760
<v Speaker 2>have won that war. The fact that he believes that

0:25:40.800 --> 0:25:45.520
<v Speaker 2>in states that says a lot, right because this recitation

0:25:45.640 --> 0:25:47.800
<v Speaker 2>that like the first Foreign Legion Units and Indo China

0:25:47.880 --> 0:25:51.840
<v Speaker 2>URLSS veterans and they were masters of counterinsurgency is based

0:25:51.960 --> 0:25:56.720
<v Speaker 2>upon one specific novel. I have actually traced back where

0:25:56.800 --> 0:25:59.760
<v Speaker 2>Liddy gets this belief, and it's from a fiction book

0:25:59.800 --> 0:26:03.000
<v Speaker 2>called The Devil's Guard. Now, I actually have not seen

0:26:03.040 --> 0:26:05.639
<v Speaker 2>this written anywhere else. I think I may be like

0:26:05.680 --> 0:26:08.800
<v Speaker 2>the first person to note this publicly, but it's extremely

0:26:08.920 --> 0:26:12.080
<v Speaker 2>obvious if you are familiar with the book The Devil's Guard.

0:26:12.080 --> 0:26:13.960
<v Speaker 2>And I'll go into why I am in a little bit.

0:26:14.320 --> 0:26:17.080
<v Speaker 2>But The Devil's Guard was a novel published by a

0:26:17.119 --> 0:26:20.320
<v Speaker 2>guy named George Elford in nineteen seventy one. This is

0:26:20.320 --> 0:26:24.800
<v Speaker 2>about nine years before Liddy writes his autobiography. The Devil's

0:26:24.800 --> 0:26:28.240
<v Speaker 2>Guard is based on the experience of a former wafeness

0:26:28.440 --> 0:26:31.520
<v Speaker 2>officer who it starts with him like he's fighting in

0:26:31.560 --> 0:26:33.720
<v Speaker 2>Eastern Europe, He's fighting in Russia, and then as the

0:26:33.760 --> 0:26:36.000
<v Speaker 2>war ends, he kind of like fights and sneaks his

0:26:36.040 --> 0:26:41.240
<v Speaker 2>way across Europe, eventually escaping the Allies and traveling to Indo, China,

0:26:41.400 --> 0:26:43.840
<v Speaker 2>where he fights in a nine hundred man unit of

0:26:43.920 --> 0:26:47.320
<v Speaker 2>all former SS men. And they're just the best encounter

0:26:47.400 --> 0:26:50.199
<v Speaker 2>and they're running circles around the Viet Minh using all

0:26:50.240 --> 0:26:53.000
<v Speaker 2>these different they're combat skills, and they're so sneaky, and

0:26:53.040 --> 0:26:55.560
<v Speaker 2>they have all these different plans and stuff. And because

0:26:55.760 --> 0:26:58.159
<v Speaker 2>of how ruthless they are, the VIETMN just you know,

0:26:58.280 --> 0:27:02.040
<v Speaker 2>can't do anything about them. Right now, Elford presents this

0:27:02.040 --> 0:27:04.320
<v Speaker 2>this is a non fiction novel. It's supposed to be,

0:27:04.960 --> 0:27:07.080
<v Speaker 2>but he claims that it's the result of an interview

0:27:07.119 --> 0:27:12.040
<v Speaker 2>with an anonymous, totally real Nazi. Historians now universally agree

0:27:12.040 --> 0:27:14.080
<v Speaker 2>that this is a lie. There were no there were

0:27:14.160 --> 0:27:17.000
<v Speaker 2>definitely SS men who served in the Foreign Legion. There

0:27:17.080 --> 0:27:19.439
<v Speaker 2>was at no point a nine hundred man unit of

0:27:19.480 --> 0:27:23.760
<v Speaker 2>former SS veterans. Right, that just did not happen. Right,

0:27:23.920 --> 0:27:26.840
<v Speaker 2>that's from an Indiana Jones's sequel. That's from an Indiana

0:27:26.960 --> 0:27:31.720
<v Speaker 2>Jones book. Like, right, yeah, it's also like another one

0:27:31.720 --> 0:27:33.399
<v Speaker 2>of the reasons we know this book is full of

0:27:33.400 --> 0:27:36.439
<v Speaker 2>shit is that he has these loving descriptions this is

0:27:36.440 --> 0:27:39.760
<v Speaker 2>like a Soldier of Fortune. As books, there's loving descriptions

0:27:39.760 --> 0:27:42.119
<v Speaker 2>of all the different guns they use and how, and

0:27:42.200 --> 0:27:44.560
<v Speaker 2>a bunch of the weapons he describes them using in

0:27:44.600 --> 0:27:47.879
<v Speaker 2>detail did not exist at the time or were not

0:27:48.080 --> 0:27:50.440
<v Speaker 2>in use by Legion troops at the time, right, They

0:27:50.480 --> 0:27:53.440
<v Speaker 2>simply were not present in that conflict. He just thought

0:27:53.440 --> 0:27:55.280
<v Speaker 2>they were cool guns, so he wanted to put them

0:27:55.320 --> 0:27:58.560
<v Speaker 2>in his novel. Meanwhile, and there's also you know, a

0:27:58.560 --> 0:28:01.920
<v Speaker 2>bunch of different genius count insurgency tactics shown in the book.

0:28:01.960 --> 0:28:04.879
<v Speaker 2>Like at one point, these SS guys kidnapped the family

0:28:04.920 --> 0:28:07.520
<v Speaker 2>members of a bunch of Vietmen fighters and like stick

0:28:07.560 --> 0:28:10.280
<v Speaker 2>them in vehicles that they're driving through a part of

0:28:10.280 --> 0:28:12.920
<v Speaker 2>the jungle, so that if the Vietmen attack a convoy,

0:28:12.920 --> 0:28:15.760
<v Speaker 2>they'll kill their family members, right, which is would be

0:28:15.800 --> 0:28:18.679
<v Speaker 2>a war crime if they'd done it, But it's supposed

0:28:18.680 --> 0:28:19.919
<v Speaker 2>to be like, you know, this is the kind of

0:28:19.960 --> 0:28:22.160
<v Speaker 2>heart you can't you can't follow the law if you're

0:28:22.160 --> 0:28:25.600
<v Speaker 2>going to win an insurgency. That and a bunch of

0:28:25.640 --> 0:28:27.959
<v Speaker 2>other tactics that are like that in the book are

0:28:28.000 --> 0:28:31.040
<v Speaker 2>all taken directly from a different book about British commandos

0:28:31.080 --> 0:28:34.159
<v Speaker 2>fighting the Japanese in World War Two, like they're lifted

0:28:34.200 --> 0:28:37.600
<v Speaker 2>directly from this other book. Now, The Devil's Guard is

0:28:37.640 --> 0:28:39.960
<v Speaker 2>also it's one of the fact that it shows, the

0:28:40.000 --> 0:28:42.440
<v Speaker 2>whole premise of it is that the SS could have

0:28:42.480 --> 0:28:45.560
<v Speaker 2>won the war in Vietnam if we'd let them. It's

0:28:45.680 --> 0:28:48.760
<v Speaker 2>one of the most fascist books of military fiction and existence.

0:28:48.800 --> 0:28:50.560
<v Speaker 2>And again I have to I have to, I have

0:28:50.640 --> 0:28:54.960
<v Speaker 2>to really emphasize fiction. It's claims too that it was

0:28:55.080 --> 0:28:58.400
<v Speaker 2>real have spread myths about the incredible brilliance of the

0:28:58.440 --> 0:29:02.720
<v Speaker 2>SS as a counter insurgence for generations in two thousand

0:29:02.760 --> 0:29:04.120
<v Speaker 2>and six, and this is why I know about it.

0:29:04.120 --> 0:29:07.480
<v Speaker 2>In two thousand and six, online bookstore A Books noted

0:29:07.480 --> 0:29:09.600
<v Speaker 2>that it was one of the top ten novels sold

0:29:09.680 --> 0:29:12.520
<v Speaker 2>to US soldiers heading over to Iraq, and the only

0:29:12.640 --> 0:29:15.680
<v Speaker 2>piece of war fiction on that list. Because again, you've

0:29:15.720 --> 0:29:18.560
<v Speaker 2>got all these kids, they haven't actually been to combat yet,

0:29:18.720 --> 0:29:20.560
<v Speaker 2>they're trying to know what it's like. They want, like,

0:29:20.680 --> 0:29:23.920
<v Speaker 2>you know, advice, so they read this book about supposedly

0:29:24.000 --> 0:29:28.480
<v Speaker 2>the best counterinsurgency experts who ever existed, the fucking SS. Right,

0:29:28.760 --> 0:29:32.720
<v Speaker 2>it's just this very popular book of lies, and Lyddy

0:29:32.840 --> 0:29:35.680
<v Speaker 2>is kind of the first pop prominent guy who gets

0:29:35.720 --> 0:29:37.960
<v Speaker 2>taken in by it, right, which is why everything he

0:29:38.000 --> 0:29:41.360
<v Speaker 2>writes about Vietnam is very clearly just taken from this,

0:29:41.360 --> 0:29:45.120
<v Speaker 2>this book of fiction. Now, I think it's worth spending

0:29:45.160 --> 0:29:48.280
<v Speaker 2>a little bit more time discussing exactly why Liddy's conception

0:29:48.400 --> 0:29:52.080
<v Speaker 2>of the Wathen SS is a historical First off, the

0:29:52.280 --> 0:29:56.800
<v Speaker 2>SS were dogshit at counterinsurgency. There is no evidence that

0:29:56.840 --> 0:30:00.200
<v Speaker 2>has ever existed in history that these guys had any

0:30:00.360 --> 0:30:04.800
<v Speaker 2>competence at defeating insurgencies. They are involved in one insurgent

0:30:04.880 --> 0:30:09.000
<v Speaker 2>campaign in the history of the organization and they lose it, right, Like,

0:30:09.720 --> 0:30:12.280
<v Speaker 2>they don't win at all. It's like saying the US

0:30:12.360 --> 0:30:15.000
<v Speaker 2>is the best counterinsurgency army in the world. It's like, well,

0:30:15.040 --> 0:30:16.800
<v Speaker 2>what the fuck are you basing that on?

0:30:17.480 --> 0:30:17.640
<v Speaker 3>Right?

0:30:17.840 --> 0:30:20.640
<v Speaker 2>How cool the Navy Seals are in a movie you watched.

0:30:20.880 --> 0:30:23.720
<v Speaker 2>They've lost every war they've been involved in. I don't

0:30:23.760 --> 0:30:26.360
<v Speaker 2>understand why you think they're good at this. That's the

0:30:26.400 --> 0:30:32.160
<v Speaker 2>power of culture, baby. Now, the SS are repeatedly noted

0:30:32.200 --> 0:30:36.120
<v Speaker 2>by their colleagues and Wehrmacht officers for inciting violence from

0:30:36.160 --> 0:30:39.360
<v Speaker 2>captive populations due to their brutality. Right, the SS comes

0:30:39.400 --> 0:30:42.760
<v Speaker 2>into all these areas like Ukraine right in eastern Europe,

0:30:42.840 --> 0:30:46.080
<v Speaker 2>where because of sort of the relationship that area had

0:30:46.080 --> 0:30:48.400
<v Speaker 2>had to the Soviet Union before the Nazis come in,

0:30:48.640 --> 0:30:51.760
<v Speaker 2>there was a good possibility of like them taking over

0:30:51.840 --> 0:30:55.880
<v Speaker 2>and being relatively popular, and they just massacre so many

0:30:55.920 --> 0:31:01.000
<v Speaker 2>people pointlessly that they inspire like account like an insurgent

0:31:01.040 --> 0:31:06.000
<v Speaker 2>campaign against themselves because they're Nazis. They're terrible. That said,

0:31:06.080 --> 0:31:08.320
<v Speaker 2>even outside of like if you're kind of taking it

0:31:08.360 --> 0:31:11.880
<v Speaker 2>outside of their performance as a counterinsurgency force, there's this

0:31:12.080 --> 0:31:15.120
<v Speaker 2>idea that's still pretty common even among people who don't

0:31:15.160 --> 0:31:18.720
<v Speaker 2>like Nazis, that the SS were an elite combat unit

0:31:18.800 --> 0:31:22.720
<v Speaker 2>that performed well above like the levels shown by their

0:31:22.760 --> 0:31:26.520
<v Speaker 2>Verhrmacht counterparts. This is a lie as well. There were

0:31:26.640 --> 0:31:31.040
<v Speaker 2>certainly specific SS combat units that performed well, right, you

0:31:31.040 --> 0:31:33.560
<v Speaker 2>know that exists. You can find some some SS military

0:31:33.640 --> 0:31:37.080
<v Speaker 2>units that had very good battle records, right, But even

0:31:37.080 --> 0:31:38.880
<v Speaker 2>that does not mean what you might think it means.

0:31:38.880 --> 0:31:43.160
<v Speaker 2>Because SS divisions consistently received better gear and more of it.

0:31:43.200 --> 0:31:46.640
<v Speaker 2>They were much more mechanized than their regular army counterparts.

0:31:46.680 --> 0:31:49.640
<v Speaker 2>Because of the clout that they had with the Nazi system.

0:31:49.920 --> 0:31:54.080
<v Speaker 2>And SS divisions were also larger than normal Wehrmacht Army divisions.

0:31:54.240 --> 0:31:57.480
<v Speaker 2>A Waffen SS division has ad had a standard size

0:31:57.480 --> 0:32:00.400
<v Speaker 2>of about twenty thousand men, compared to sixteen thousand, five

0:32:00.440 --> 0:32:02.560
<v Speaker 2>hundred in the regular army. So if you're saying, well,

0:32:02.600 --> 0:32:05.760
<v Speaker 2>these WAFT and SS divisions performed better than these Fairmaut divisions,

0:32:05.800 --> 0:32:08.760
<v Speaker 2>it's like, well, they were an extra like thirty hundred guys,

0:32:08.760 --> 0:32:12.400
<v Speaker 2>and yeah, I mean it makes sense. Yeah, better take Well,

0:32:12.480 --> 0:32:12.720
<v Speaker 2>you know.

0:32:12.920 --> 0:32:16.160
<v Speaker 3>That's that's just the power of airy inness. You know,

0:32:16.480 --> 0:32:19.560
<v Speaker 3>that's it's like if you weren't, you wouldn't have all

0:32:19.600 --> 0:32:20.600
<v Speaker 3>those extra dudes.

0:32:20.840 --> 0:32:23.200
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, how did they fight so much better? Well, there

0:32:23.200 --> 0:32:27.120
<v Speaker 2>were like three thousand extra dudes. Yeah, that'll that that

0:32:27.120 --> 0:32:30.400
<v Speaker 2>can matter sometimes that's so much extra area and blood.

0:32:30.520 --> 0:32:33.360
<v Speaker 2>Of course, it's also worth noting that even if you

0:32:33.400 --> 0:32:36.960
<v Speaker 2>take this into account, they don't actually have across the

0:32:37.000 --> 0:32:40.719
<v Speaker 2>board a good like a better combat record than regular units.

0:32:41.160 --> 0:32:43.400
<v Speaker 2>It is worth noting SS men were picked both for

0:32:43.520 --> 0:32:45.240
<v Speaker 2>racial and ideological purity.

0:32:45.360 --> 0:32:45.520
<v Speaker 3>Right.

0:32:45.760 --> 0:32:48.520
<v Speaker 2>Part of what this meant is that regular enlisted soldiers

0:32:48.560 --> 0:32:51.840
<v Speaker 2>in the WAFT and SS were often healthier and in

0:32:51.920 --> 0:32:55.320
<v Speaker 2>better physical shape than regular army soldiers. But it also

0:32:55.440 --> 0:32:58.720
<v Speaker 2>means that their officers were pipped not on based on

0:32:58.760 --> 0:33:02.520
<v Speaker 2>their performance right, their competence, but based on their adherence

0:33:02.560 --> 0:33:05.479
<v Speaker 2>to propaganda right, which meant that the most important thing

0:33:05.480 --> 0:33:07.760
<v Speaker 2>for an SS officer was not what do they know,

0:33:07.920 --> 0:33:10.080
<v Speaker 2>how well are they trained? How well have they performed?

0:33:10.080 --> 0:33:13.000
<v Speaker 2>But like, do they fit this sort of vision we

0:33:13.040 --> 0:33:15.400
<v Speaker 2>have for how they should look? And I found another

0:33:15.440 --> 0:33:18.600
<v Speaker 2>really good asque historians post on this matter, which quotes

0:33:18.640 --> 0:33:22.400
<v Speaker 2>a February nineteen forty three inspection of an SS division

0:33:22.440 --> 0:33:26.200
<v Speaker 2>by a Wehrmacht Army major quote. The commanders of this

0:33:26.320 --> 0:33:28.640
<v Speaker 2>wap of an SS division did not seem to realize

0:33:28.640 --> 0:33:32.160
<v Speaker 2>that brave and ideologically misguided young men were being selflessly

0:33:32.280 --> 0:33:36.560
<v Speaker 2>sacrificed through insane arrogance and a lofty disdain for sound training.

0:33:36.800 --> 0:33:38.680
<v Speaker 2>Belief in the Fuerer was more important to them than

0:33:38.720 --> 0:33:42.080
<v Speaker 2>professional ability. Shocked and sobered by the experience, I returned

0:33:42.120 --> 0:33:44.560
<v Speaker 2>to headquarters, where I was given an opportunity to report

0:33:44.560 --> 0:33:47.239
<v Speaker 2>my impressions to the chief of the general staff. In

0:33:47.280 --> 0:33:51.320
<v Speaker 2>other words, officers in the Waffenss were often young men, likelyddy,

0:33:51.480 --> 0:33:54.840
<v Speaker 2>filled with very irrational beliefs about combat and their own

0:33:54.920 --> 0:33:58.280
<v Speaker 2>racial purity. The fact that they were brainwashed meant that

0:33:58.320 --> 0:34:01.360
<v Speaker 2>they were incapable of judging threats adequately.

0:34:01.520 --> 0:34:01.640
<v Speaker 3>Right.

0:34:01.920 --> 0:34:05.680
<v Speaker 2>They could not accurately judge the situations that they were

0:34:05.680 --> 0:34:08.560
<v Speaker 2>in and what was a necessary response, and as a result,

0:34:08.600 --> 0:34:11.319
<v Speaker 2>they got a lot of their men killed unnecessarily. Right.

0:34:11.440 --> 0:34:13.600
<v Speaker 2>In other words, these were all the guys who became

0:34:13.800 --> 0:34:16.040
<v Speaker 2>SS officers were the kind of men who might say,

0:34:16.239 --> 0:34:19.560
<v Speaker 2>disobey orders to crawl through mud with an open surgical wound,

0:34:19.680 --> 0:34:22.600
<v Speaker 2>and you don't want that guy making calls and combats.

0:34:22.640 --> 0:34:24.040
<v Speaker 2>It's really a two way street.

0:34:24.080 --> 0:34:27.080
<v Speaker 3>The love for that, like the SS would have loved

0:34:27.480 --> 0:34:28.560
<v Speaker 3>and yeah.

0:34:28.760 --> 0:34:32.680
<v Speaker 2>He would have immediately made it into the SS. Like

0:34:32.760 --> 0:34:34.600
<v Speaker 2>the Wehrmacht would have been like, no, get this guy

0:34:34.640 --> 0:34:36.880
<v Speaker 2>the fuck out of here. He's like, he's not rational,

0:34:37.120 --> 0:34:39.240
<v Speaker 2>But the SSS would have been like, he's a rational

0:34:39.280 --> 0:34:42.879
<v Speaker 2>make him an officer, right.

0:34:43.040 --> 0:34:45.879
<v Speaker 3>He just yeah, right, you know, at least he knows

0:34:45.880 --> 0:34:48.560
<v Speaker 3>where he would have fit in. Yeah's a lot of people, don't,

0:34:48.719 --> 0:34:50.759
<v Speaker 3>you know, a lot of people don't. Yeah, this was

0:34:50.800 --> 0:34:53.560
<v Speaker 3>his ideal life situation and he just missed it.

0:34:55.560 --> 0:34:58.080
<v Speaker 2>Anyway. That was a long digression, but like I felt

0:34:58.080 --> 0:35:05.120
<v Speaker 2>it was necessary anyway. You know what else is a

0:35:05.160 --> 0:35:12.840
<v Speaker 2>fascist paramilitary organization? Mmmm, we'll find out the sponsors of

0:35:12.880 --> 0:35:27.759
<v Speaker 2>our podcast. Oh ah, we are back. And boy, I

0:35:27.840 --> 0:35:30.480
<v Speaker 2>really loved those ads for the Waffen SS. You know.

0:35:30.640 --> 0:35:32.160
<v Speaker 2>I hope, I hope a lot of a lot of

0:35:32.160 --> 0:35:36.919
<v Speaker 2>our listeners join so that they can win the war

0:35:37.000 --> 0:35:41.640
<v Speaker 2>in French, Indo, China. You got it. It's like just

0:35:41.680 --> 0:35:44.279
<v Speaker 2>as if only there were a few more Nazis there,

0:35:44.320 --> 0:35:47.360
<v Speaker 2>you know. Yeah, a couple more Nazis gonna put that

0:35:47.440 --> 0:35:50.759
<v Speaker 2>whole house in order, like like we always say, that's

0:35:50.800 --> 0:35:53.719
<v Speaker 2>all we need. Yeah. I do love the idea that,

0:35:53.840 --> 0:35:56.799
<v Speaker 2>like the ss IS experience getting their asses handed to

0:35:56.840 --> 0:35:59.080
<v Speaker 2>them and the steps of Eastern Europe would have prepared

0:35:59.120 --> 0:36:03.800
<v Speaker 2>them for a jungle war Inva. Yeah, they were really

0:36:03.920 --> 0:36:11.880
<v Speaker 2>ready for that. So by the nineteen sixties the mid sixties,

0:36:11.920 --> 0:36:14.200
<v Speaker 2>the anti war movement has started to pick up serious

0:36:14.200 --> 0:36:17.520
<v Speaker 2>steam and Lyddy is horrified by this. Young people, as

0:36:17.520 --> 0:36:20.560
<v Speaker 2>he writes, were quote eroding the national will and respect

0:36:20.600 --> 0:36:23.719
<v Speaker 2>for authority. They were sinking into a nether world of

0:36:23.800 --> 0:36:27.600
<v Speaker 2>drug culture. Also, you want to hear G. Gordon Liddy's

0:36:27.640 --> 0:36:30.880
<v Speaker 2>take on the civil rights movement Andrew, Oh, I'm sure

0:36:30.920 --> 0:36:35.360
<v Speaker 2>it's very measured. Yes, solid, it's gonna be good. Valid

0:36:35.400 --> 0:36:38.800
<v Speaker 2>demands by blacks for civil rights were often resisted violently

0:36:38.840 --> 0:36:41.920
<v Speaker 2>by whites, and in response, many blacks were adopting violence

0:36:42.120 --> 0:36:45.680
<v Speaker 2>as an offensive rather than defensive tactic. This is his

0:36:46.280 --> 0:36:48.919
<v Speaker 2>you know, that's not all wrong, and that like, well,

0:36:48.960 --> 0:36:51.400
<v Speaker 2>the fact that they were getting murdered led to like

0:36:51.560 --> 0:36:54.120
<v Speaker 2>embrace of more radical use. I still would call that

0:36:54.200 --> 0:36:55.719
<v Speaker 2>defensive violence, right.

0:36:56.160 --> 0:36:59.080
<v Speaker 3>I will admit that was much more measured that I

0:36:59.120 --> 0:36:59.920
<v Speaker 3>thought it was going to be.

0:37:00.680 --> 0:37:04.640
<v Speaker 2>He is his racism is never like straight up like

0:37:04.719 --> 0:37:06.960
<v Speaker 2>he's never going to be the guy who says, I think,

0:37:07.080 --> 0:37:09.440
<v Speaker 2>you know, we should go back to slavery, or I

0:37:09.440 --> 0:37:11.560
<v Speaker 2>don't think these people Like he's always going to be

0:37:11.600 --> 0:37:14.200
<v Speaker 2>the guy who his racism is more obvious and like

0:37:14.280 --> 0:37:17.360
<v Speaker 2>the only ways he ever talks about black people right right,

0:37:17.400 --> 0:37:20.800
<v Speaker 2>where like any time he deals with a violent criminal,

0:37:20.840 --> 0:37:22.440
<v Speaker 2>he's going to let you know that it's a black man,

0:37:22.640 --> 0:37:25.520
<v Speaker 2>right like, like that's that's how that's that's where you

0:37:25.600 --> 0:37:29.240
<v Speaker 2>kind of catch it here right now. Given his anger

0:37:29.320 --> 0:37:31.720
<v Speaker 2>at the way things are going in the United States,

0:37:31.840 --> 0:37:34.640
<v Speaker 2>Lyddy has come to feel that his only option is

0:37:34.680 --> 0:37:37.920
<v Speaker 2>to get a job at the District Attorney's office in Poughkeepsie,

0:37:38.200 --> 0:37:41.520
<v Speaker 2>New York in nineteen sixty six. And I hate typing

0:37:41.560 --> 0:37:44.480
<v Speaker 2>the word Poughkeepsie, so I'm very unhappy that this is

0:37:44.640 --> 0:37:49.319
<v Speaker 2>such a part of the story. But he points out

0:37:49.320 --> 0:37:51.160
<v Speaker 2>that like part of what he moves there is it's

0:37:51.200 --> 0:37:53.840
<v Speaker 2>his wife's hometown, right, So he goes there and he

0:37:53.920 --> 0:37:57.759
<v Speaker 2>becomes He describes himself as like an unorthodox but dedicated

0:37:57.840 --> 0:38:00.600
<v Speaker 2>law man, respected by the local police and liked by

0:38:00.640 --> 0:38:04.040
<v Speaker 2>the judges. And that is, to at least some extint true.

0:38:04.360 --> 0:38:07.080
<v Speaker 2>A New York Times reporter who visited in nineteen seventy

0:38:07.080 --> 0:38:10.040
<v Speaker 2>three and asked a round about Liddy got this description

0:38:10.160 --> 0:38:14.440
<v Speaker 2>of him. Lyddy led an unusual, even bizarre life. He

0:38:14.600 --> 0:38:16.719
<v Speaker 2>liked to drive around town in a jeep, He cared

0:38:16.719 --> 0:38:19.600
<v Speaker 2>a revolver at all times, even when prosecuting a case,

0:38:19.840 --> 0:38:22.360
<v Speaker 2>and seemed to enjoy the kidding by the sheriff's deputies

0:38:22.360 --> 0:38:24.920
<v Speaker 2>who would outdraw him. He would spend his off hours

0:38:24.920 --> 0:38:28.359
<v Speaker 2>cruising the city with policemen. He's like always hanging out

0:38:28.400 --> 0:38:32.279
<v Speaker 2>with them, and shit, not for because it's his job,

0:38:32.360 --> 0:38:36.759
<v Speaker 2>just because he thinks it's fun. Oh my god, what

0:38:36.920 --> 0:38:37.400
<v Speaker 2>a freak.

0:38:37.640 --> 0:38:42.520
<v Speaker 3>I love the mental image of a fucking Poughkeepsie PD

0:38:42.880 --> 0:38:43.200
<v Speaker 3>and G.

0:38:43.360 --> 0:38:47.840
<v Speaker 2>Gordon Liddy drawing their guns at each other. Yeah, yeah, wonderrect.

0:38:47.840 --> 0:38:49.640
<v Speaker 2>I also loved that little mention that like, oh yeah,

0:38:49.680 --> 0:38:52.520
<v Speaker 2>he wasn't very good at it, right, like he always lost,

0:38:52.680 --> 0:38:52.880
<v Speaker 2>you know.

0:38:53.440 --> 0:38:57.279
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, yeah, I'm genuinely surprised he didn't accidentally shoot someone

0:38:57.400 --> 0:38:57.919
<v Speaker 3>in that moment.

0:38:58.000 --> 0:39:02.120
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, we don't. One hundred percent. No he didn't. You know,

0:39:02.320 --> 0:39:07.240
<v Speaker 2>that's true. That's the Yeah. So that article also provides

0:39:07.320 --> 0:39:09.880
<v Speaker 2>us with an amusing summary of some of Liddy's greatest

0:39:09.960 --> 0:39:14.279
<v Speaker 2>hits in the courtroom. Lyddy's courtroom activities as prosecutor were

0:39:14.280 --> 0:39:17.080
<v Speaker 2>occasionally a bit unsettling. On one occasion, he waved a

0:39:17.160 --> 0:39:20.040
<v Speaker 2>knife under the noses of startled jurors, later overturned on

0:39:20.080 --> 0:39:23.239
<v Speaker 2>the basis of that stunt and opposing lawyer procalled. And

0:39:23.320 --> 0:39:25.600
<v Speaker 2>another time he smashed a piece of wood over the

0:39:25.680 --> 0:39:28.480
<v Speaker 2>jury rail while prosecuting an assault case involving the use

0:39:28.520 --> 0:39:30.640
<v Speaker 2>of the plank. Lyddy paid for the repair to the

0:39:30.680 --> 0:39:34.480
<v Speaker 2>jury rail. God, I love that. Yeah, he loses a

0:39:34.520 --> 0:39:37.560
<v Speaker 2>case because he pulls a knife on the jury. What

0:39:37.840 --> 0:39:42.280
<v Speaker 2>a clown. So funny, It's so funny.

0:39:43.000 --> 0:39:45.120
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, here's here's the thing I was gonna say about him,

0:39:45.160 --> 0:39:48.160
<v Speaker 3>that is, I realized I'm just trying to parse the difference,

0:39:48.520 --> 0:39:52.800
<v Speaker 3>which is he has humongous like middle school knife catalog

0:39:53.000 --> 0:39:53.840
<v Speaker 3>guy energy.

0:39:54.120 --> 0:39:57.560
<v Speaker 2>This guy, this guy like g Gordon Liddy, never was

0:39:57.600 --> 0:39:59.400
<v Speaker 2>seen without a Budka catalog.

0:39:59.680 --> 0:40:03.200
<v Speaker 3>Right, absolutely, But I will just throw this out there,

0:40:03.480 --> 0:40:05.520
<v Speaker 3>at least of the people I am friendly with, you

0:40:05.600 --> 0:40:08.960
<v Speaker 3>might be the person who's closest in my sphere to

0:40:09.120 --> 0:40:11.880
<v Speaker 3>knife catalog and middle school guy. So that's why I

0:40:11.920 --> 0:40:14.480
<v Speaker 3>was trying to parse the difference between you and recordedly.

0:40:15.120 --> 0:40:16.680
<v Speaker 3>And I think it might just be not being a

0:40:16.719 --> 0:40:17.279
<v Speaker 3>huge dork.

0:40:17.440 --> 0:40:19.520
<v Speaker 2>But you know what I'm saying, I'm a huge dork

0:40:19.560 --> 0:40:22.360
<v Speaker 2>and I own way way more knives than are strictly

0:40:22.400 --> 0:40:25.960
<v Speaker 2>necessary for any of my purposes. I think one of

0:40:26.000 --> 0:40:29.640
<v Speaker 2>the big differences is that I've never lost a court

0:40:29.719 --> 0:40:33.200
<v Speaker 2>case because I pulled a knife on the Jerry. Yeah, Like,

0:40:33.400 --> 0:40:38.160
<v Speaker 2>my knives are more like, you know, used for processing

0:40:38.239 --> 0:40:42.560
<v Speaker 2>animals and stuff, like, I mean roadkill with my knives. Yeah.

0:40:42.600 --> 0:40:47.040
<v Speaker 2>Well yeah, it's like, I guess it's competence or something.

0:40:47.080 --> 0:40:51.120
<v Speaker 2>I can't mild competence, right, That's all it takes. Yeah,

0:40:51.320 --> 0:40:53.520
<v Speaker 2>that's the difference, I guess and not being a Nazi.

0:40:53.880 --> 0:40:56.640
<v Speaker 2>Not being a Nazi, yeah, not using them to threaten

0:40:56.680 --> 0:40:59.520
<v Speaker 2>people for no good reason. There's a lot of a

0:40:59.520 --> 0:41:02.000
<v Speaker 2>lot of things, right, that you can do to not

0:41:02.200 --> 0:41:05.799
<v Speaker 2>be like G. Gordon Liddy. You know, I also have

0:41:05.960 --> 0:41:09.040
<v Speaker 2>read books about the SS that are not like strictly

0:41:09.160 --> 0:41:13.399
<v Speaker 2>historically accurate, largely because I needed to understand aspects of

0:41:13.440 --> 0:41:15.839
<v Speaker 2>like the growth of the fascist movement among you as

0:41:15.880 --> 0:41:21.080
<v Speaker 2>soldiers in the early parts of the global War on terror. Right. So,

0:41:21.360 --> 0:41:24.319
<v Speaker 2>one of the most influent infamous stories about G. Gordon

0:41:24.360 --> 0:41:27.200
<v Speaker 2>Liddy is that during one of his court cases, he

0:41:27.320 --> 0:41:31.040
<v Speaker 2>drew and fired his revolver in court in order to

0:41:31.080 --> 0:41:35.359
<v Speaker 2>like make a point. This you'll hear this summarized, like, Yeah,

0:41:35.400 --> 0:41:38.560
<v Speaker 2>he fired a loaded handgun in a courtroom in order

0:41:38.600 --> 0:41:43.359
<v Speaker 2>to like make an art, like emphasize an argument the

0:41:43.400 --> 0:41:46.200
<v Speaker 2>court case. And it didn't quite go down that way, right.

0:41:46.360 --> 0:41:48.560
<v Speaker 2>So the court case that he's involved in, he's prosecuting

0:41:48.600 --> 0:41:51.759
<v Speaker 2>a dude whose defense claimed that the revolver he'd been

0:41:51.760 --> 0:41:54.120
<v Speaker 2>accused of using by the police was inoperable. So he

0:41:54.160 --> 0:41:56.880
<v Speaker 2>couldn't have fired it because it didn't work. So Lyddy

0:41:56.960 --> 0:41:58.960
<v Speaker 2>wanted to prove that it did work, and in order

0:41:59.000 --> 0:42:01.040
<v Speaker 2>to do that, he loaded it with blanks, and he

0:42:01.120 --> 0:42:03.080
<v Speaker 2>fired it during the climax of his argument.

0:42:04.200 --> 0:42:04.359
<v Speaker 1>This.

0:42:04.600 --> 0:42:07.200
<v Speaker 2>You know, the judge was startled by this, But like,

0:42:07.239 --> 0:42:09.440
<v Speaker 2>it doesn't seem to have been an ineffective tactic, right,

0:42:09.520 --> 0:42:11.719
<v Speaker 2>Like it's a little showmanship, but he's not actually just

0:42:11.719 --> 0:42:15.040
<v Speaker 2>like firing a normal right right, Like he's shooting a blank.

0:42:15.440 --> 0:42:18.280
<v Speaker 2>It is kind of it is technically relevant to the case,

0:42:19.440 --> 0:42:21.520
<v Speaker 2>So there you go. I think if he was a

0:42:21.560 --> 0:42:24.520
<v Speaker 2>different guy who had not gotten in trouble for committing

0:42:24.560 --> 0:42:27.839
<v Speaker 2>a series of crimes, this would be like, oh yeah,

0:42:27.880 --> 0:42:29.919
<v Speaker 2>look at it, he's like this, you know, this would

0:42:29.920 --> 0:42:31.960
<v Speaker 2>be kind of celebrated, right, I do think this is

0:42:31.960 --> 0:42:33.319
<v Speaker 2>the kind of thing that would be celebrated if he

0:42:33.360 --> 0:42:34.720
<v Speaker 2>was a normal dude, right.

0:42:34.719 --> 0:42:38.080
<v Speaker 3>Right, Yeah, just don't be a freak and you can

0:42:38.120 --> 0:42:39.960
<v Speaker 3>get to do your idiosyncratic things.

0:42:40.280 --> 0:42:43.759
<v Speaker 2>Yeah we all like a weirdo, right, Yeah, you just

0:42:43.840 --> 0:42:47.960
<v Speaker 2>went too far to Gordon Lyddy. In general, he was

0:42:48.000 --> 0:42:51.640
<v Speaker 2>seen as an eccentric but decent lawyer, one of the

0:42:51.680 --> 0:42:54.880
<v Speaker 2>defense lawyers who worked opposite of Litty told The Times

0:42:54.960 --> 0:42:58.040
<v Speaker 2>later he was fun in court. You could ridicule him

0:42:58.080 --> 0:42:59.719
<v Speaker 2>in front of the jury, and he never carried a

0:42:59.760 --> 0:43:03.160
<v Speaker 2>grin outside the courtroom. He also worked hard, prepared his

0:43:03.280 --> 0:43:05.640
<v Speaker 2>case as well, and presented them with a lot of ego.

0:43:06.040 --> 0:43:09.040
<v Speaker 2>He just didn't seem to have the anxieties, fear, insecurities

0:43:09.040 --> 0:43:11.319
<v Speaker 2>and uncertainties that the rest of us have. It was

0:43:11.360 --> 0:43:12.960
<v Speaker 2>hard to visualize him sweating.

0:43:16.280 --> 0:43:20.000
<v Speaker 3>That's such an interesting thing I up to this point,

0:43:20.080 --> 0:43:23.240
<v Speaker 3>it's actually really hard to not visualize him in anything

0:43:23.440 --> 0:43:25.200
<v Speaker 3>but flop sweat constantly.

0:43:25.920 --> 0:43:29.200
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, he seems to I think you know. There's again,

0:43:29.239 --> 0:43:32.160
<v Speaker 2>there's two TV shows that recently came out, both of

0:43:32.200 --> 0:43:35.840
<v Speaker 2>which have g Gordon Lyddie as a character. There's the

0:43:35.840 --> 0:43:37.880
<v Speaker 2>one that has one of the one show that starred

0:43:38.280 --> 0:43:40.680
<v Speaker 2>Justin Throw playing him, and then I get the actor

0:43:40.719 --> 0:43:43.200
<v Speaker 2>for the other show that features him. But like one

0:43:43.239 --> 0:43:46.600
<v Speaker 2>of them shows him as flipping out and screaming and

0:43:46.640 --> 0:43:49.439
<v Speaker 2>like physically threatening people in a kind of unhinged way

0:43:49.440 --> 0:43:51.560
<v Speaker 2>on a number of occasions. And one of them shows

0:43:51.600 --> 0:43:56.360
<v Speaker 2>him as like this this very like emotionally cool, calm,

0:43:56.920 --> 0:44:00.799
<v Speaker 2>like idiot maniac, right, who is like like constantly is

0:44:00.920 --> 0:44:03.239
<v Speaker 2>always in this sort of and I think that that's

0:44:03.280 --> 0:44:05.560
<v Speaker 2>the justin throw version. I think that's closer to how

0:44:05.600 --> 0:44:09.319
<v Speaker 2>Liddy actually behaved. Right. I do think he he is

0:44:09.440 --> 0:44:14.040
<v Speaker 2>very good at maintaining this like pool outside look right

0:44:14.120 --> 0:44:17.480
<v Speaker 2>to other people generally speaking, even though he is it

0:44:17.560 --> 0:44:19.440
<v Speaker 2>is very obvious a lot of the time that he's

0:44:19.440 --> 0:44:22.120
<v Speaker 2>in over his head and incompetent, like he's always he

0:44:22.160 --> 0:44:25.000
<v Speaker 2>always has this sense of confidence about him. Right. The

0:44:25.080 --> 0:44:28.080
<v Speaker 2>most noteworthy moment of Lyddy's time and how Kipsie was

0:44:28.120 --> 0:44:31.520
<v Speaker 2>his run in with doctor Timothy Leary during a raid.

0:44:31.560 --> 0:44:34.799
<v Speaker 2>And these two guys are really tied together. There's they

0:44:34.840 --> 0:44:37.520
<v Speaker 2>will they will wind up touring the country doing a

0:44:37.600 --> 0:44:42.720
<v Speaker 2>floor show together. Yeah, cam Lee here, And like Timothy

0:44:42.800 --> 0:44:45.080
<v Speaker 2>Leary is kind of a left wing version of g

0:44:45.239 --> 0:44:47.879
<v Speaker 2>Gordon Liddy. A lot of what Leary says and gets

0:44:47.920 --> 0:44:51.919
<v Speaker 2>famous for is bullshit. He is a significant like Fabuloust, right,

0:44:52.840 --> 0:44:55.680
<v Speaker 2>he is a little bit of a con man, you know,

0:44:55.880 --> 0:44:58.600
<v Speaker 2>but he's also at the core of him he believes

0:44:58.640 --> 0:45:01.760
<v Speaker 2>some things very genuine as an and is extremely committed

0:45:01.800 --> 0:45:04.960
<v Speaker 2>to those things. And obviously those are better because he's

0:45:05.000 --> 0:45:07.719
<v Speaker 2>not a Nazi, right, so, but he is you do

0:45:07.840 --> 0:45:10.400
<v Speaker 2>kind of get an element of like Leary's fundamental, like

0:45:11.360 --> 0:45:13.880
<v Speaker 2>the fact that he's willing to tour around with Leary,

0:45:13.920 --> 0:45:17.160
<v Speaker 2>this unrepentant fascist after both of them have gotten out

0:45:17.200 --> 0:45:19.879
<v Speaker 2>of prison, says a lot about tim Leary. But their

0:45:19.960 --> 0:45:24.040
<v Speaker 2>first run in is so there's this raid in nineteen

0:45:24.200 --> 0:45:27.640
<v Speaker 2>sixty six on tim Leary's the place that he's living

0:45:27.680 --> 0:45:30.200
<v Speaker 2>at the time that a lot of people consider like

0:45:30.280 --> 0:45:33.239
<v Speaker 2>the inciting incident of the acid era. Right, Like this

0:45:33.320 --> 0:45:35.080
<v Speaker 2>is the if you're making a movie, right, if you

0:45:35.120 --> 0:45:38.280
<v Speaker 2>decided to do a mini series about like the birth

0:45:38.360 --> 0:45:41.640
<v Speaker 2>of the psychedelic drug movement of acid of like a

0:45:41.640 --> 0:45:43.680
<v Speaker 2>lot of the things we consider core to like the

0:45:43.719 --> 0:45:47.120
<v Speaker 2>hippie movement, you started at this raid in nineteen sixty six,

0:45:47.239 --> 0:45:50.719
<v Speaker 2>right tim Leary. And the background of this is that

0:45:50.760 --> 0:45:52.719
<v Speaker 2>like Tim Leary and a bunch of he was, you know,

0:45:52.800 --> 0:45:57.160
<v Speaker 2>a professor at I think it was Harvard. Yeah, maybe

0:45:57.160 --> 0:45:58.880
<v Speaker 2>I'm wrong about I think it was Harvard, and he

0:45:59.000 --> 0:46:02.000
<v Speaker 2>like becomes a way of LSD. He starts taking it,

0:46:02.040 --> 0:46:03.920
<v Speaker 2>he starts doing studies with it. This is during a

0:46:03.920 --> 0:46:07.040
<v Speaker 2>period where it's legal, right, it gets illegal eventually, which

0:46:07.040 --> 0:46:10.040
<v Speaker 2>is why some other stuff happens. But after he gets

0:46:10.080 --> 0:46:12.960
<v Speaker 2>kind of like pushed out at his college and is

0:46:13.000 --> 0:46:15.120
<v Speaker 2>no longer working there, he and a bunch of his

0:46:15.160 --> 0:46:18.840
<v Speaker 2>associates move into a mansion in Millbrook, New York. And

0:46:18.920 --> 0:46:21.760
<v Speaker 2>this mansion has bought. There's this like rich kid stockbroker

0:46:22.120 --> 0:46:26.640
<v Speaker 2>who like continues to make a lot of money doing stockshit,

0:46:26.960 --> 0:46:28.960
<v Speaker 2>Like he's never interested in anything but getting better at

0:46:28.960 --> 0:46:32.279
<v Speaker 2>being a stockbroker. But he loves acid, right, so he's like, yeah,

0:46:32.320 --> 0:46:34.279
<v Speaker 2>you can. I bought this mansion. You can all move

0:46:34.320 --> 0:46:36.920
<v Speaker 2>in here and do your drug experiments in my mansion.

0:46:38.040 --> 0:46:40.799
<v Speaker 2>Remember when the rich used to be cool? This guy

0:46:40.880 --> 0:46:45.520
<v Speaker 2>does sound as cool as a stockbroker could be. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

0:46:46.160 --> 0:46:48.920
<v Speaker 2>It's interesting. Leary's always kind of like baffled at the

0:46:48.920 --> 0:46:51.239
<v Speaker 2>fact that, like this guy is so on board with

0:46:51.320 --> 0:46:54.920
<v Speaker 2>the movement but also very comfortable and happy being like

0:46:55.040 --> 0:46:59.880
<v Speaker 2>absolutely a part of the establishment. Like yeah, being this

0:47:00.080 --> 0:47:04.880
<v Speaker 2>like soulless business guy. So this the leer in between

0:47:04.880 --> 0:47:07.840
<v Speaker 2>thirty and sixty at any given point. Hippie dropout types

0:47:07.920 --> 0:47:11.040
<v Speaker 2>live in this mansion and do hella drugs, right, mostly

0:47:11.080 --> 0:47:13.360
<v Speaker 2>acid and wheat. From what we can tell, I assume

0:47:13.400 --> 0:47:15.680
<v Speaker 2>there's other stuff that gets thrown into the mix. So

0:47:16.120 --> 0:47:19.239
<v Speaker 2>this is all well and good, except for Millbrook is

0:47:19.480 --> 0:47:21.400
<v Speaker 2>kind of a small town. I think it's a little

0:47:21.400 --> 0:47:23.960
<v Speaker 2>more affluent than your average small town. You know. It's

0:47:24.000 --> 0:47:26.960
<v Speaker 2>in upstate New York. And the citizens of Millbrook are like,

0:47:27.640 --> 0:47:30.480
<v Speaker 2>once they realize this famous drug wizard is living in

0:47:30.480 --> 0:47:32.799
<v Speaker 2>their town, they're like, well, we're not really thrilled about this.

0:47:33.120 --> 0:47:35.080
<v Speaker 2>We don't want Tim Leary living here with a bunch

0:47:35.120 --> 0:47:39.200
<v Speaker 2>of hippies, you know. And he's he is kind of

0:47:39.200 --> 0:47:41.360
<v Speaker 2>he is by this point already gotten this reputation is

0:47:41.440 --> 0:47:44.440
<v Speaker 2>like the devil to a lot of conservatives, right, he

0:47:44.600 --> 0:47:47.720
<v Speaker 2>is the absolute worst person on earth. He's corrupting the youth.

0:47:48.520 --> 0:47:51.040
<v Speaker 2>And so because he's got this, you know, reputation of

0:47:51.080 --> 0:47:55.080
<v Speaker 2>spreading the gospel of acid, action is demanded by the

0:47:55.120 --> 0:47:58.000
<v Speaker 2>citizens of Millbrook, And since g. Gordon Lyddiy is at

0:47:58.000 --> 0:48:01.880
<v Speaker 2>this point a well known anti drug crusader, he winds

0:48:01.920 --> 0:48:04.719
<v Speaker 2>up helping to organize the raid on Millbrook.

0:48:04.840 --> 0:48:04.960
<v Speaker 3>Right.

0:48:05.000 --> 0:48:07.920
<v Speaker 2>He's there during it, theoretically in order to ensure that

0:48:07.960 --> 0:48:10.080
<v Speaker 2>proper legal procedure is followed, right, because he works in

0:48:10.160 --> 0:48:13.719
<v Speaker 2>the DA's office. So the most notable part of this

0:48:13.800 --> 0:48:16.880
<v Speaker 2>story is that when the police bust into the mansion

0:48:16.960 --> 0:48:20.440
<v Speaker 2>late at night after Leary and his like cohorts have

0:48:20.480 --> 0:48:23.400
<v Speaker 2>gone to bed, Leary is like wearing a shirt and nothing.

0:48:23.400 --> 0:48:25.840
<v Speaker 2>He's shirt cocking it right, like his disk just swinging

0:48:25.880 --> 0:48:29.120
<v Speaker 2>in the breeze. And well, all there's this whole argument

0:48:29.200 --> 0:48:31.360
<v Speaker 2>over like is this raid legal? What are they doing?

0:48:31.480 --> 0:48:34.040
<v Speaker 2>Like where you know? Well, while this is all going on,

0:48:34.080 --> 0:48:35.839
<v Speaker 2>and it seems to go on for quite some time,

0:48:36.239 --> 0:48:38.840
<v Speaker 2>Leary repeated that, like the cops are constantly like, hey man,

0:48:38.880 --> 0:48:41.600
<v Speaker 2>would you put on some pants? Hey man? Like and Leary,

0:48:41.800 --> 0:48:43.520
<v Speaker 2>this is one thing I will give him. I love

0:48:43.560 --> 0:48:46.000
<v Speaker 2>this about him. He's like absolutely not, Like you are

0:48:46.040 --> 0:48:48.359
<v Speaker 2>in my home. I will have my dick out if

0:48:48.440 --> 0:48:53.480
<v Speaker 2>I want to, just repeatedly refuses to not have his

0:48:55.040 --> 0:49:00.440
<v Speaker 2>wig hanging out, which is honorable, I think. Yeah. It's

0:49:00.480 --> 0:49:04.120
<v Speaker 2>also worth noting that Lyddy, who volunteers, he's not asked,

0:49:04.239 --> 0:49:06.359
<v Speaker 2>like the only thing he's needed therefore is to make

0:49:06.360 --> 0:49:09.200
<v Speaker 2>sure that like legal procedure, But he volunteers to help

0:49:09.239 --> 0:49:13.160
<v Speaker 2>the cops survey the hippies beforehand for no reason and

0:49:13.719 --> 0:49:16.160
<v Speaker 2>nearly blows the whole op as a result of this,

0:49:16.239 --> 0:49:20.920
<v Speaker 2>because he's bad at everything. Quote, and this is from

0:49:20.920 --> 0:49:23.080
<v Speaker 2>the New York Times. It seems that Lyddy and some

0:49:23.160 --> 0:49:26.600
<v Speaker 2>policemen complete with binoculars and walkie talkie, were staked out

0:49:26.600 --> 0:49:28.359
<v Speaker 2>in the bushes of the estate when a young woman

0:49:28.440 --> 0:49:31.360
<v Speaker 2>stepped completely nude from one of the tints on the grounds.

0:49:31.640 --> 0:49:33.600
<v Speaker 2>A lot of funny things were going on at that place,

0:49:33.640 --> 0:49:37.000
<v Speaker 2>a deputy explained. Anyway, they became so preoccupied with this

0:49:37.040 --> 0:49:39.279
<v Speaker 2>girl that they gave their height out away and blew

0:49:39.320 --> 0:49:44.080
<v Speaker 2>the whole bit. They nearly exposed the whole operation because

0:49:44.120 --> 0:49:46.959
<v Speaker 2>like he and these cops can't stop oggling this naked woman.

0:49:47.320 --> 0:49:51.120
<v Speaker 3>It was like Porkys for Nazis. It's all Nazis, I know,

0:49:51.239 --> 0:49:52.040
<v Speaker 3>but come on.

0:49:52.560 --> 0:49:59.080
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, you know what else is like Porky's the sponsors

0:49:59.080 --> 0:50:01.920
<v Speaker 2>of this podcast. We are in fact sponsored by the

0:50:01.960 --> 0:50:06.279
<v Speaker 2>movie Porky's. Yeah, the bar, the establishment, the establishment, all

0:50:06.320 --> 0:50:09.520
<v Speaker 2>of those things. If it's called Porky's, we are legally

0:50:09.600 --> 0:50:26.040
<v Speaker 2>responsible for it. Uh, we are b a Q. That's

0:50:26.040 --> 0:50:31.120
<v Speaker 2>how you spill back, that's anyway. So Lyddy spends three years,

0:50:31.160 --> 0:50:33.760
<v Speaker 2>i think, working for the DA's office in Poughkeepsie before

0:50:33.760 --> 0:50:36.280
<v Speaker 2>he decides that it's time to take a more active

0:50:36.360 --> 0:50:38.960
<v Speaker 2>role trying to wrench the ship of state away from

0:50:39.000 --> 0:50:41.680
<v Speaker 2>degeneracy and leftism. And the way he's going to do

0:50:41.719 --> 0:50:44.680
<v Speaker 2>this is by running for Congress. That's how he describes it, right,

0:50:44.719 --> 0:50:46.480
<v Speaker 2>that after a couple of years, he's like, I'm just

0:50:46.520 --> 0:50:49.560
<v Speaker 2>not doing enough to fight against this, So I've got

0:50:49.600 --> 0:50:52.200
<v Speaker 2>to get into politics in order to like, really really,

0:50:52.440 --> 0:50:55.560
<v Speaker 2>you know, make a difference here. That's how he describes it.

0:50:55.920 --> 0:50:59.600
<v Speaker 2>The Times has a different story. They note that late

0:50:59.640 --> 0:51:02.800
<v Speaker 2>in his run for the DA's office, a local resident

0:51:02.840 --> 0:51:06.799
<v Speaker 2>had complained about Liddy's actions in a narcotics case, and

0:51:07.040 --> 0:51:09.920
<v Speaker 2>that like that wound up becoming an official complaint to

0:51:09.960 --> 0:51:13.080
<v Speaker 2>the State Commission of Investigation. The case gets dropped for

0:51:13.200 --> 0:51:16.720
<v Speaker 2>lack of evidence, but this quote from that lawyer, mister Tepper,

0:51:16.760 --> 0:51:19.880
<v Speaker 2>who he had worked against Liddy, gives us an idea

0:51:19.880 --> 0:51:22.000
<v Speaker 2>of how he kind of might have gotten forced out,

0:51:22.080 --> 0:51:24.040
<v Speaker 2>Like he may have run for office because it was

0:51:24.160 --> 0:51:26.680
<v Speaker 2>he was almost known to him, there's not going to

0:51:26.760 --> 0:51:29.960
<v Speaker 2>be a space for you here forever. Quite right, he

0:51:30.040 --> 0:51:33.000
<v Speaker 2>was always expecting the big narcotics bust, mister Tepper said.

0:51:33.080 --> 0:51:35.680
<v Speaker 2>Gordon kept pushing pushing all the time. He probably bent

0:51:35.760 --> 0:51:37.680
<v Speaker 2>the rules a bit now and then to collect evidence,

0:51:37.719 --> 0:51:41.520
<v Speaker 2>but I can't recall anything specific now. His autobiography makes

0:51:41.560 --> 0:51:43.040
<v Speaker 2>no mention of this, but we do know there were

0:51:43.080 --> 0:51:46.480
<v Speaker 2>complaints against him, and we do you get the feeling that, like, yeah,

0:51:46.560 --> 0:51:49.880
<v Speaker 2>maybe he was kind of pushed out to an extent

0:51:49.920 --> 0:51:52.960
<v Speaker 2>here at least there was some like he had the feeling,

0:51:53.160 --> 0:51:55.480
<v Speaker 2>I'm not going to always have a role here, right

0:51:55.160 --> 0:51:59.000
<v Speaker 2>right right. So Lyddy now thirty eight, decides he's going

0:51:59.040 --> 0:52:01.959
<v Speaker 2>to challenge the leading Republican candidate in New York's twenty

0:52:02.000 --> 0:52:06.240
<v Speaker 2>eighth congressional district, the relative of one of our former guests,

0:52:06.760 --> 0:52:11.320
<v Speaker 2>Maggie Mayfish, Hamilton Fish Junior. So these guys are related

0:52:11.320 --> 0:52:15.239
<v Speaker 2>to that serial killer and the political dynasty, the Fishes. Yeah,

0:52:15.280 --> 0:52:19.440
<v Speaker 2>so that's cool anyway. Hamilton Fish Junior is kind of

0:52:19.440 --> 0:52:23.239
<v Speaker 2>like an establishment Republican, right He's He's probably someone who

0:52:23.239 --> 0:52:25.840
<v Speaker 2>would like was closer to the Dims than like a

0:52:25.920 --> 0:52:29.480
<v Speaker 2>dude like g. Gordon Liddy. And so Lyddy is kind

0:52:29.480 --> 0:52:32.960
<v Speaker 2>of running against him on a very extreme right wing platform.

0:52:33.280 --> 0:52:37.440
<v Speaker 2>His campaign had three planks, taxes which were too high, crime,

0:52:37.680 --> 0:52:42.080
<v Speaker 2>and Vietnam right on crime, Lyddy presaged much modern right

0:52:42.120 --> 0:52:44.600
<v Speaker 2>wing discourse when he said, God help us if the

0:52:44.640 --> 0:52:49.239
<v Speaker 2>thin blue line of protection crumbles. He's a thin blue

0:52:49.280 --> 0:52:56.640
<v Speaker 2>line guyon it is funny, like all of the thin

0:52:56.719 --> 0:53:02.239
<v Speaker 2>blue lionist guys wind up in prison for committed crimes. Yeah,

0:53:03.200 --> 0:53:08.160
<v Speaker 2>do love how consistent that is. Meanwhile, on Vietnam, he

0:53:08.280 --> 0:53:10.879
<v Speaker 2>was clear that he supported US commitment to the war

0:53:10.920 --> 0:53:14.080
<v Speaker 2>effort quote, but not our conduct of the war. And

0:53:14.200 --> 0:53:16.640
<v Speaker 2>whenever you hear that, what that means is he thought

0:53:16.719 --> 0:53:19.480
<v Speaker 2>that we hadn't committed quite enough war crimes. Right, if

0:53:19.480 --> 0:53:22.120
<v Speaker 2>we'd massacred another couple of million people, we would have

0:53:22.200 --> 0:53:24.880
<v Speaker 2>won it. Yeah, Like that's how I was taking. We

0:53:24.920 --> 0:53:30.600
<v Speaker 2>needed more SS guys out in the jungle. Uh, so

0:53:31.719 --> 0:53:35.640
<v Speaker 2>give it. Yeah, Yeah, it's very funny. He would have liked.

0:53:35.680 --> 0:53:37.759
<v Speaker 2>If he had gotten any chance to weigh in, he

0:53:37.800 --> 0:53:40.240
<v Speaker 2>would have pulled out that fiction book about the SS

0:53:40.239 --> 0:53:44.080
<v Speaker 2>and slammed it on the table. So Lyddy lost badly

0:53:44.440 --> 0:53:47.279
<v Speaker 2>and eventually was forced to drop out and Backfish in

0:53:47.400 --> 0:53:49.840
<v Speaker 2>order to have a future in the Republican Party. His

0:53:49.920 --> 0:53:52.600
<v Speaker 2>supporters called him a sellout, but he got a job

0:53:52.719 --> 0:53:56.440
<v Speaker 2>running the Dutchess County Nixon campaign. One law you're interviewed

0:53:56.440 --> 0:54:00.680
<v Speaker 2>by The Times called it a deal. Right, So basically, look, man,

0:54:01.040 --> 0:54:04.239
<v Speaker 2>stop making trouble for this guy who is Yeah, he's

0:54:04.239 --> 0:54:06.520
<v Speaker 2>not far right like you, but you know he can

0:54:06.560 --> 0:54:09.759
<v Speaker 2>win unlike you because you're a maniac. And if you,

0:54:09.920 --> 0:54:13.120
<v Speaker 2>if you play ball, you'll get a job running the

0:54:13.200 --> 0:54:16.680
<v Speaker 2>Nixon campaign in this other county. And he says, yes,

0:54:16.760 --> 0:54:19.000
<v Speaker 2>you know, he is always a team player, right. That

0:54:19.080 --> 0:54:21.120
<v Speaker 2>is you got to give Liddy. He's gonna get you

0:54:21.120 --> 0:54:24.040
<v Speaker 2>in trouble because he's a maniac. But like he will

0:54:24.120 --> 0:54:27.120
<v Speaker 2>do what he thinks is best for the party, even

0:54:27.160 --> 0:54:29.239
<v Speaker 2>if it's not what's best for him. Like that's kind

0:54:29.239 --> 0:54:32.560
<v Speaker 2>of what he's famous for. So he's a toady. He's

0:54:32.600 --> 0:54:36.480
<v Speaker 2>an ambitions Yeah, he is a hinchman. Right, he's got

0:54:36.520 --> 0:54:41.000
<v Speaker 2>a hinch ye. So Lyddy is an adequate performer in

0:54:41.040 --> 0:54:44.319
<v Speaker 2>this role. Nixon was more impressed by his loyalty and

0:54:44.360 --> 0:54:46.680
<v Speaker 2>his willingness to take a personal hit to his pride

0:54:46.680 --> 0:54:49.359
<v Speaker 2>for the team than anything else. Right, this is the thing,

0:54:49.719 --> 0:54:54.399
<v Speaker 2>Dick Nixon is a guy who respects loyalty to him, right,

0:54:54.480 --> 0:54:56.920
<v Speaker 2>and that's what he sees from Lyddy and so you know,

0:54:57.320 --> 0:54:59.400
<v Speaker 2>it becomes it kind of like gets through the grape vine,

0:54:59.400 --> 0:55:01.759
<v Speaker 2>like all right, he's somebody that we can trust in

0:55:01.760 --> 0:55:04.960
<v Speaker 2>the Nixon White House. And as a reward, when Dick

0:55:05.040 --> 0:55:08.320
<v Speaker 2>Nixon wins office, Ge Gordon Lyddy is given a position

0:55:08.400 --> 0:55:12.520
<v Speaker 2>as Special Assistant for Organized Crime to the Secretary of Treasury, right,

0:55:12.840 --> 0:55:15.120
<v Speaker 2>which is this is kind of a dream gig for him.

0:55:15.400 --> 0:55:18.160
<v Speaker 2>He loves the idea of being like a drug warrior,

0:55:18.200 --> 0:55:20.880
<v Speaker 2>of like being you know, fighting the gangsters and stuff.

0:55:21.760 --> 0:55:23.399
<v Speaker 2>And he, you know, he sees this and I think

0:55:23.400 --> 0:55:25.600
<v Speaker 2>it probably was there was this idea, well maybe this

0:55:25.640 --> 0:55:27.480
<v Speaker 2>guy's got a future. Maybe one day this guy could

0:55:27.480 --> 0:55:29.520
<v Speaker 2>even have a cabinet position. So let's try him out,

0:55:29.520 --> 0:55:31.160
<v Speaker 2>you know, at a lower level, see how he works.

0:55:31.800 --> 0:55:34.839
<v Speaker 2>Lyddy instantly proves himself to be the kind of guy

0:55:34.880 --> 0:55:38.359
<v Speaker 2>that cannot be trusted with power he developed. He gets

0:55:38.360 --> 0:55:40.680
<v Speaker 2>in a lot of trouble very quickly at the Department

0:55:40.719 --> 0:55:44.200
<v Speaker 2>of Treasury because he keeps trying to set policy right

0:55:44.280 --> 0:55:46.880
<v Speaker 2>on his own, the sort of apropos without any backing,

0:55:47.000 --> 0:55:49.440
<v Speaker 2>like saying, this is our stance on guns. We won't

0:55:49.680 --> 0:55:52.000
<v Speaker 2>pursue these kind of gun control laws. He will give

0:55:52.040 --> 0:55:55.520
<v Speaker 2>like all these speeches at like gun control lobby events

0:55:55.560 --> 0:55:57.799
<v Speaker 2>saying that Department of Treasury will never do this, and

0:55:57.800 --> 0:55:59.960
<v Speaker 2>then his boss will be like, the fuck are you talking?

0:56:01.480 --> 0:56:04.200
<v Speaker 2>Like you never cleared this with anybody, Like you're not

0:56:04.239 --> 0:56:08.480
<v Speaker 2>supposed to be saying these things. He was also bad

0:56:08.600 --> 0:56:12.279
<v Speaker 2>at being a drug warrior right now. Because he had

0:56:12.320 --> 0:56:15.279
<v Speaker 2>experience as an FBI agent, he was asked to help

0:56:15.400 --> 0:56:18.880
<v Speaker 2>organize an effort to reduce drug smuggling across the Mexican border,

0:56:18.960 --> 0:56:22.680
<v Speaker 2>Operation Intercept. The goal of this plan was to punish

0:56:22.719 --> 0:56:25.800
<v Speaker 2>the Mexican government for refusing to allow US air power

0:56:25.840 --> 0:56:29.319
<v Speaker 2>into their country to spread poison on crops. The response,

0:56:29.880 --> 0:56:33.600
<v Speaker 2>Operation Intercept is to punish Mexico by shutting down the

0:56:33.640 --> 0:56:36.200
<v Speaker 2>border with legal gridlock. The idea is you have the

0:56:36.239 --> 0:56:39.160
<v Speaker 2>police question and search every single person who comes in

0:56:39.200 --> 0:56:43.520
<v Speaker 2>from Mexico, right, which is includes Americans and absolutely this

0:56:43.640 --> 0:56:45.480
<v Speaker 2>is a busy reason. There's a lot of region, there's

0:56:45.480 --> 0:56:47.239
<v Speaker 2>a lot of business that comes through in here, there's

0:56:47.239 --> 0:56:50.200
<v Speaker 2>a lot of tourism. It just shatters the way the

0:56:50.239 --> 0:56:54.719
<v Speaker 2>region functions, right. It's a calamity for all of these

0:56:54.960 --> 0:56:57.320
<v Speaker 2>The US side of the border too. Right. It fucks

0:56:57.400 --> 0:57:00.040
<v Speaker 2>up the local economy, It does a lot of damage,

0:57:00.120 --> 0:57:04.160
<v Speaker 2>and it's there's no like, nothing but chaos. As the result,

0:57:04.680 --> 0:57:08.279
<v Speaker 2>The New York Times summarizes border communities were disrupted by

0:57:08.320 --> 0:57:11.560
<v Speaker 2>lengthy searches. Traffic across the frontier was halted for hours,

0:57:11.560 --> 0:57:15.200
<v Speaker 2>tourism suffered. Liddy sought to justify the confusion with patriotic

0:57:15.200 --> 0:57:17.800
<v Speaker 2>speeches in the local communities. He was dismissed as a

0:57:17.800 --> 0:57:22.960
<v Speaker 2>Treasury man in nineteen seventy one. Now, for his part,

0:57:23.280 --> 0:57:26.080
<v Speaker 2>Liddy describes Intercept as having been a success. Right. The

0:57:26.080 --> 0:57:28.080
<v Speaker 2>people who thought it was a failure just didn't understand

0:57:28.120 --> 0:57:30.880
<v Speaker 2>the goal, which was to fuck up life for everyone

0:57:31.000 --> 0:57:33.840
<v Speaker 2>on the border. Right. His idea was like, well, look, yeah,

0:57:33.840 --> 0:57:36.040
<v Speaker 2>it fucked up everything for Americans, but it fucked them

0:57:36.120 --> 0:57:38.920
<v Speaker 2>up worse for Mexicans, and they the Mexican government could

0:57:38.960 --> 0:57:40.480
<v Speaker 2>handle the disruption less well.

0:57:40.560 --> 0:57:40.760
<v Speaker 3>Right.

0:57:41.560 --> 0:57:44.440
<v Speaker 2>And this is this is his defense of Operation Recept.

0:57:45.080 --> 0:57:48.840
<v Speaker 2>It was an exercise in international extortion, peer simple and effective,

0:57:48.920 --> 0:57:53.720
<v Speaker 2>designed to bend Mexico to our will. Now, Lyddy claims

0:57:53.760 --> 0:57:55.920
<v Speaker 2>this is a big win and that he was only

0:57:56.000 --> 0:57:59.360
<v Speaker 2>fired right after by the Treasury Department because he made

0:57:59.400 --> 0:58:03.040
<v Speaker 2>too many good recommendations to his boss. Yeah, ross a days,

0:58:03.120 --> 0:58:07.320
<v Speaker 2>which is like, it's very funny because so number one

0:58:07.560 --> 0:58:10.160
<v Speaker 2>Operation Intercept. I guess you can debate, you know, like

0:58:10.280 --> 0:58:15.120
<v Speaker 2>there's there's there's definitely like an argument to be made

0:58:15.280 --> 0:58:18.440
<v Speaker 2>that like, well, yeah, you can some of their goals

0:58:18.800 --> 0:58:21.640
<v Speaker 2>were achieved by creating this much chaos. But like the

0:58:21.680 --> 0:58:24.440
<v Speaker 2>Treasury Department considers it kind of a disaster at the

0:58:24.480 --> 0:58:26.600
<v Speaker 2>time because of all of the complaints that it generates,

0:58:26.600 --> 0:58:28.960
<v Speaker 2>because of how much it pisses people off. So I

0:58:29.000 --> 0:58:31.480
<v Speaker 2>don't think it was considered that by anyone but Lyddy.

0:58:31.720 --> 0:58:31.959
<v Speaker 3>Really.

0:58:33.240 --> 0:58:36.120
<v Speaker 2>The other thing is that, like he he cites in

0:58:36.160 --> 0:58:38.480
<v Speaker 2>his book, you know, his boss being jealous of him

0:58:38.480 --> 0:58:41.280
<v Speaker 2>because every time they would argue, Lyddy was right right,

0:58:41.320 --> 0:58:42.959
<v Speaker 2>you know, he was just he made too many good

0:58:43.040 --> 0:58:45.960
<v Speaker 2>calls and it was really pissing off his boss embarrassed him.

0:58:46.440 --> 0:58:48.400
<v Speaker 2>One of the good decisions we'll go into one of these.

0:58:48.400 --> 0:58:50.880
<v Speaker 2>One of the good decisions that Liddy cites as like

0:58:51.040 --> 0:58:54.280
<v Speaker 2>the thing that drove his boss crazy was the Customs

0:58:54.320 --> 0:58:57.200
<v Speaker 2>Division Department is like trying to figure out how to

0:58:57.280 --> 0:58:59.400
<v Speaker 2>arm air marshals at this point because there's a lot

0:58:59.440 --> 0:59:01.600
<v Speaker 2>we talked about in are like episodes on the Golden

0:59:01.600 --> 0:59:04.160
<v Speaker 2>Age of terrorism, a lot of planes getting hijacked at

0:59:04.160 --> 0:59:06.680
<v Speaker 2>this period, late sixties or early seventies. This is the

0:59:06.720 --> 0:59:10.560
<v Speaker 2>golden age of hijacking a plane to nothing, to hijack

0:59:10.720 --> 0:59:14.720
<v Speaker 2>a commercial aircraft in this period, And so we're starting

0:59:14.760 --> 0:59:16.960
<v Speaker 2>to put air marshals on planes, and we're you know,

0:59:17.480 --> 0:59:21.040
<v Speaker 2>it's a when you're considering what firearm to give a

0:59:21.080 --> 0:59:24.520
<v Speaker 2>man who would be expected to shoot it in a plane,

0:59:25.160 --> 0:59:28.120
<v Speaker 2>that's a complicated thing to decide. That's a lot more

0:59:28.520 --> 0:59:30.960
<v Speaker 2>a lot more difficult than just deciding, like what's the

0:59:30.960 --> 0:59:33.720
<v Speaker 2>best gun to give a cop right where it's like, yeah, no,

0:59:34.000 --> 0:59:36.280
<v Speaker 2>there's a lot of like a lot of very complex

0:59:36.440 --> 0:59:41.400
<v Speaker 2>engineering questions about like and today, by the way, our

0:59:41.520 --> 0:59:44.840
<v Speaker 2>air marshals are armed with firearms that have very specific

0:59:44.920 --> 0:59:47.200
<v Speaker 2>kinds of bullets that are made to function in a

0:59:47.280 --> 0:59:51.480
<v Speaker 2>certain way on planes to minimize dangers of depressurization, over penetration,

0:59:51.480 --> 0:59:54.040
<v Speaker 2>all that kind of stuff. So they're trying to decide

0:59:54.040 --> 0:59:56.720
<v Speaker 2>what's the best thing weapon to arm these guys with,

0:59:57.040 --> 0:59:59.040
<v Speaker 2>and Lyddy is like, you should give them three fifty

0:59:59.040 --> 1:00:01.720
<v Speaker 2>seven magnum fire arms loaded with hollow point. Now he

1:00:01.840 --> 1:00:04.280
<v Speaker 2>picks there's not actually a good reason why it should

1:00:04.360 --> 1:00:06.360
<v Speaker 2>be a three fifty seven over like a nine millimeter.

1:00:06.600 --> 1:00:09.200
<v Speaker 2>Lyddy just loves revolvers, and he loves the three fifty

1:00:09.200 --> 1:00:11.880
<v Speaker 2>seven cartridge because it's the quote unquote most powerful gun

1:00:11.920 --> 1:00:13.680
<v Speaker 2>in the world. It's the only reason he picks the

1:00:13.720 --> 1:00:17.360
<v Speaker 2>three fifty seven. Now, he is right that hollow points

1:00:17.400 --> 1:00:19.440
<v Speaker 2>are a better choice than full metal jacket, and the

1:00:19.480 --> 1:00:21.520
<v Speaker 2>reason for this is that hollow points are less likely

1:00:21.560 --> 1:00:23.880
<v Speaker 2>to overpenetrate. Right, The point purpose of a hollow point

1:00:24.160 --> 1:00:26.880
<v Speaker 2>is that it expands more when it hits meat. Right,

1:00:27.160 --> 1:00:29.760
<v Speaker 2>It expands when it hits meat, and that transfers more

1:00:29.800 --> 1:00:32.800
<v Speaker 2>force from the bullet into the body of whoever you've hit,

1:00:33.040 --> 1:00:35.080
<v Speaker 2>so it's less likely to go through them and then

1:00:35.120 --> 1:00:37.840
<v Speaker 2>through something critical on the plane. Right, That is accurate.

1:00:38.160 --> 1:00:40.720
<v Speaker 2>Lyddy claims that there's like this big debate, you know,

1:00:40.800 --> 1:00:43.920
<v Speaker 2>over it, and nobody believes him all by that just

1:00:43.960 --> 1:00:47.440
<v Speaker 2>because it's actually weirdly it's if you study the history

1:00:47.480 --> 1:00:50.160
<v Speaker 2>of how people learned about how bullets function, it takes

1:00:50.200 --> 1:00:53.280
<v Speaker 2>a weirdly long time to figure out anything about bullets.

1:00:54.080 --> 1:00:56.520
<v Speaker 2>So I'll give him. That may have been the case.

1:00:56.560 --> 1:00:59.360
<v Speaker 2>But the evidence that he cites to make this case,

1:00:59.680 --> 1:01:02.600
<v Speaker 2>if he was actually making this argument, you know, as

1:01:02.640 --> 1:01:05.160
<v Speaker 2>opposed to everyone being like obviously, hollow points are less

1:01:05.200 --> 1:01:08.160
<v Speaker 2>likely to over pendray if he is not lying about that,

1:01:08.560 --> 1:01:10.760
<v Speaker 2>the evidence that he cites in his book is how

1:01:10.800 --> 1:01:13.640
<v Speaker 2>he made the case about hollow points being of interput.

1:01:13.880 --> 1:01:16.120
<v Speaker 2>It's nuts, it's and I'll give you one. I'll give

1:01:16.120 --> 1:01:18.800
<v Speaker 2>you one quote like guess as to how it's nuts.

1:01:18.800 --> 1:01:22.720
<v Speaker 2>Andrew to the fire, got on a plane. No, no, no,

1:01:22.800 --> 1:01:27.120
<v Speaker 2>but he brings up the Nazis again, comes into it again.

1:01:27.600 --> 1:01:30.720
<v Speaker 2>That's his other move. His other move. He either shot

1:01:30.760 --> 1:01:34.800
<v Speaker 2>a gun or brought up the SS right quote. Here's

1:01:34.880 --> 1:01:38.040
<v Speaker 2>Lyddy making the case for why air marshals should carry

1:01:38.240 --> 1:01:43.000
<v Speaker 2>hollow points. I cited Nazi experiments using live Jews that

1:01:43.120 --> 1:01:46.720
<v Speaker 2>determined one seven point nine millimeter balls solid bullet from

1:01:46.720 --> 1:01:49.200
<v Speaker 2>a Mauser rifle could pass through in gillup to sixteen

1:01:49.280 --> 1:01:53.240
<v Speaker 2>humans lined up in a row and solid point round

1:01:53.280 --> 1:01:56.840
<v Speaker 2>through the fuselage wouldn't result in compressive decompression of the aircraft.

1:01:57.000 --> 1:02:01.600
<v Speaker 2>It might well sever a vital control cable. Now that's

1:02:01.720 --> 1:02:06.240
<v Speaker 2>fucking nuts number one, completely irrelevant, right he is We

1:02:06.280 --> 1:02:09.320
<v Speaker 2>are talking about a handgun and he is talking about

1:02:09.360 --> 1:02:12.960
<v Speaker 2>the penetration of a write right, right, Totally different different

1:02:13.080 --> 1:02:16.440
<v Speaker 2>planets in every way ballistically a rifle down versus a

1:02:16.440 --> 1:02:19.120
<v Speaker 2>handgun round. It is not relevant in any way to

1:02:19.160 --> 1:02:22.360
<v Speaker 2>be like, you know, when the Nazis shot lined up

1:02:22.440 --> 1:02:24.840
<v Speaker 2>Jews in the end, they were able to kill sixteen

1:02:24.880 --> 1:02:27.080
<v Speaker 2>people with a single that has nothing to do with

1:02:27.120 --> 1:02:30.760
<v Speaker 2>the question. G Gordon Lyddy, that's a crazy thing to

1:02:30.800 --> 1:02:31.600
<v Speaker 2>bring up here.

1:02:31.960 --> 1:02:36.800
<v Speaker 3>You gotta stop, you know, lists like you're bringing it

1:02:36.920 --> 1:02:41.600
<v Speaker 3>up so many times. It's really Yeah, did have any

1:02:41.640 --> 1:02:43.000
<v Speaker 3>other sources?

1:02:43.280 --> 1:02:45.800
<v Speaker 2>That is not that does not make any point that's

1:02:45.840 --> 1:02:49.280
<v Speaker 2>relevant to what you're trying to argue here. Yeah, you

1:02:49.440 --> 1:02:52.200
<v Speaker 2>just wanted to talk about the SS killing Jewish people.

1:02:52.280 --> 1:02:54.240
<v Speaker 2>That's literally the only reason you said this.

1:02:54.680 --> 1:02:58.600
<v Speaker 3>You just imagine like Nickxon being like, anyone have any

1:02:58.600 --> 1:03:02.200
<v Speaker 3>thoughts his hand is like, not Nazi thoughts.

1:03:03.800 --> 1:03:10.880
<v Speaker 2>Thoughts that do not involve the SS. Fucking yeah, just

1:03:10.880 --> 1:03:16.240
<v Speaker 2>just a maniac. So Lyddy claims his recommendation is adopted,

1:03:16.880 --> 1:03:20.320
<v Speaker 2>and even in his recitation of events, the fact that

1:03:20.400 --> 1:03:23.680
<v Speaker 2>his recommendation is adopted is a disaster, right, because the

1:03:23.720 --> 1:03:26.840
<v Speaker 2>bureau Nickel plates all of their guns in order to

1:03:26.920 --> 1:03:29.040
<v Speaker 2>make sure that they're less vulnerable to like you know,

1:03:29.160 --> 1:03:32.200
<v Speaker 2>the the air and like see like saltwater, you know,

1:03:32.280 --> 1:03:36.400
<v Speaker 2>heavy places, right, And because of this, it like fucks

1:03:36.520 --> 1:03:38.560
<v Speaker 2>up the chambering of the round and all of the

1:03:38.560 --> 1:03:44.320
<v Speaker 2>guns have to be returned to the factory. Lyddy presumably

1:03:44.400 --> 1:03:46.240
<v Speaker 2>knew they were going to do this, but didn't think

1:03:46.240 --> 1:03:48.280
<v Speaker 2>to check on if it would matter, because he just

1:03:48.320 --> 1:03:52.760
<v Speaker 2>loves revolvers so much. Like again, even in his recitation

1:03:52.840 --> 1:03:55.320
<v Speaker 2>of events, to make himself look good, he gives them

1:03:55.320 --> 1:03:57.919
<v Speaker 2>advice on what kind of gun and round to use,

1:03:58.240 --> 1:04:00.320
<v Speaker 2>and it is such a disaster that they have to

1:04:00.360 --> 1:04:03.320
<v Speaker 2>recall all of the firearms. Like that's the best that

1:04:03.400 --> 1:04:06.720
<v Speaker 2>this goes for him? Is he's completely wrong, Oh my god.

1:04:07.840 --> 1:04:10.439
<v Speaker 2>And it's like the thing he loves the most. He's

1:04:12.640 --> 1:04:17.520
<v Speaker 2>come on very funny. Oh my god, so bizarre. Anyway,

1:04:17.800 --> 1:04:20.040
<v Speaker 2>I think that's gonna that's gonna close us out on

1:04:20.120 --> 1:04:24.160
<v Speaker 2>episode three of the g Gordon Liddy Story, How are

1:04:24.240 --> 1:04:25.280
<v Speaker 2>you feeling, Andrew?

1:04:25.840 --> 1:04:28.760
<v Speaker 3>This is I should have said probably before we even

1:04:28.800 --> 1:04:29.240
<v Speaker 3>started this.

1:04:29.400 --> 1:04:31.120
<v Speaker 2>I'm not a person that knows like a ton of

1:04:31.160 --> 1:04:35.720
<v Speaker 2>a Watergate at all. So this is all wonderful. Next episode,

1:04:36.000 --> 1:04:40.160
<v Speaker 2>we're really gonna get into it, right, Yeah, but we've

1:04:40.720 --> 1:04:43.200
<v Speaker 2>we've had We've had to go through a lot to

1:04:43.320 --> 1:04:46.600
<v Speaker 2>set up why Liddy's even there. And I bet you're wondering,

1:04:46.600 --> 1:04:48.720
<v Speaker 2>if you're a normal person, I bet you're wondering, like,

1:04:49.840 --> 1:04:52.560
<v Speaker 2>how the fuck did anyone trust him doing Watergate ship?

1:04:52.680 --> 1:04:55.920
<v Speaker 2>Given this guy's background, A solid question, how did he

1:04:56.040 --> 1:04:56.960
<v Speaker 2>get that job?

1:04:58.080 --> 1:05:00.400
<v Speaker 3>I mean, you see the modern version of this in

1:05:00.480 --> 1:05:03.560
<v Speaker 3>Trump or the like, you kind of like the reason

1:05:03.560 --> 1:05:05.280
<v Speaker 3>he gets it is because he's willing to do it.

1:05:05.960 --> 1:05:08.360
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that is that is You have

1:05:08.520 --> 1:05:12.280
<v Speaker 2>anticipated where this very well, very well.

1:05:14.320 --> 1:05:14.400
<v Speaker 3>So.

1:05:14.600 --> 1:05:18.280
<v Speaker 2>But yeah, anyway, Andrew, you get anything to plug just

1:05:18.600 --> 1:05:21.080
<v Speaker 2>you know, still do the podcast, Jos this racist.

1:05:21.680 --> 1:05:25.800
<v Speaker 3>I am a writer on strike, So if anyone is

1:05:26.520 --> 1:05:29.200
<v Speaker 3>wanting to support us, hopefully, I guess there's a chance

1:05:29.240 --> 1:05:31.080
<v Speaker 3>I'm not a writer on strike as you're listening to this,

1:05:31.160 --> 1:05:32.240
<v Speaker 3>but likely.

1:05:32.080 --> 1:05:32.680
<v Speaker 2>I will still be.

1:05:32.840 --> 1:05:35.760
<v Speaker 3>And even if I'm not still on strike, the overwhelming

1:05:35.760 --> 1:05:38.000
<v Speaker 3>possibility is going to be SAG will still be on strike.

1:05:38.040 --> 1:05:41.520
<v Speaker 3>The as Green As Guild, So the Entertainment Community Fund

1:05:41.920 --> 1:05:44.400
<v Speaker 3>please if you can and are able to send money

1:05:44.440 --> 1:05:47.480
<v Speaker 3>to that. You know, it's the only way a lot

1:05:47.520 --> 1:05:49.760
<v Speaker 3>of people are getting through. Not the only way, but

1:05:49.760 --> 1:05:51.920
<v Speaker 3>it's one very helpful way that a lot of people

1:05:51.960 --> 1:05:57.920
<v Speaker 3>are getting through this labor action that you know, there

1:05:58.040 --> 1:06:01.000
<v Speaker 3>the studios are trying to extract as much pain as.

1:06:00.840 --> 1:06:05.720
<v Speaker 2>Possible, and you know, why not not let them? Yeah,

1:06:05.960 --> 1:06:07.960
<v Speaker 2>why not not let them? And if you want to

1:06:08.000 --> 1:06:13.600
<v Speaker 2>extract pain, you know how to figure that out yourself.

1:06:13.640 --> 1:06:16.200
<v Speaker 2>You know, find a way to take pain out of

1:06:16.240 --> 1:06:19.720
<v Speaker 2>the world and ideally bottle it in such a fashion

1:06:19.960 --> 1:06:23.240
<v Speaker 2>that you can then sell it back to somebody else. Right.

1:06:24.280 --> 1:06:26.680
<v Speaker 2>That's capitalism, baby, Yeah, that's how it all works.

1:06:27.360 --> 1:06:30.240
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, this is what we sell the other people's paid

1:06:30.600 --> 1:06:31.280
<v Speaker 3>or our own pain.

1:06:31.400 --> 1:06:38.640
<v Speaker 2>I don't remember. Yeah, anyway, Go to Hell.

1:06:38.640 --> 1:06:41.360
<v Speaker 1>Behind the Bastards is a production of cool Zone Media.

1:06:41.720 --> 1:06:45.000
<v Speaker 1>For more from cool Zone Media, visit our website Coolzonemedia

1:06:45.200 --> 1:06:48.360
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1:06:48.480 --> 1:06:53.320
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