WEBVTT - Bun B Interview 0:00:00.840 --> 0:00:07.880 The reality for real celebrity Join the Breakfast Morning. Everybody 0:00:08.000 --> 0:00:10.760 is DJ Envy, Angela Yee, Scheloman, the Guy. We are 0:00:10.800 --> 0:00:13.880 the Breakfast Club, special guests in the building, Friend to 0:00:13.880 --> 0:00:17.640 the room, the legendary bun b and Professor Anthony pen 0:00:18.360 --> 0:00:21.640 Thank you for having us. This seems like a natural 0:00:21.720 --> 0:00:24.560 transition for the og Bunby there launching a Religion and 0:00:24.600 --> 0:00:28.320 the Hip Hop Culture online course. Yeah, we actually teach 0:00:28.400 --> 0:00:31.600 the course presently at Rice University UM, but this is 0:00:31.640 --> 0:00:34.800 an opportunity to take the conversation that we have in 0:00:34.840 --> 0:00:38.159 the classroom outside of the classroom, which was always the 0:00:38.280 --> 0:00:41.239 intention that Doc and I had for this version of 0:00:41.280 --> 0:00:43.920 the course. Doc has actually been teaching a version of 0:00:43.960 --> 0:00:48.440 this for over twenty years, Okay, and I came into 0:00:48.440 --> 0:00:51.880 the mix of about four years ago. Explain the course, Doc, 0:00:53.080 --> 0:00:55.920 what it looks at the intersections between religion and hip hop. 0:00:56.000 --> 0:00:58.760 We believe that there's lots of commonalities that we really 0:00:58.800 --> 0:01:01.680 need to explore. That both of these cultural developments have 0:01:01.800 --> 0:01:04.600 had huge impact over the course of human history, and 0:01:04.640 --> 0:01:07.440 if we don't wrestle with them, we do ourselves a disservice. 0:01:07.480 --> 0:01:10.840 So we look at the links between hip hop and Christianity, 0:01:10.959 --> 0:01:13.600 the links between hip hop and Islam, and then we 0:01:13.640 --> 0:01:16.279 look at the ways in which hip hop in certain 0:01:16.319 --> 0:01:22.880 circles has actually replaced these religious traditions. Religious folks mad 0:01:23.040 --> 0:01:25.920 thing that Islam ain't got nothna do it no hip hop. 0:01:25.959 --> 0:01:28.000 My Christianity ain't gonna do it no hip hop. Meek 0:01:28.040 --> 0:01:31.160 Mills ain't men. Well, if you take Black churches, for example, 0:01:31.160 --> 0:01:34.520 there's always been a love hate relationship between Black churches 0:01:34.520 --> 0:01:37.120 and musical production begins with the blues. They have a 0:01:37.160 --> 0:01:38.960 hard time with gospel, so of course they're gonna have 0:01:39.000 --> 0:01:41.080 a hard time with hip hop. But as soon as 0:01:41.160 --> 0:01:43.200 jay Z says you're in the presence of a King, 0:01:43.240 --> 0:01:44.920 scratched that you're in the presence of God, it's a 0:01:44.920 --> 0:01:49.120 religious conversation that you gotta have. All When jay Z said, 0:01:49.520 --> 0:01:53.480 Jesus can't save you life thoughts when the church ends again, 0:01:53.520 --> 0:01:55.600 you got to have a conversation about that. Now, folks 0:01:55.600 --> 0:01:57.360 and churches may not like that, but you gotta have 0:01:57.400 --> 0:02:00.320 a conversation about it. So for me, this is long term. 0:02:01.080 --> 0:02:03.160 I've spent a good number of years as a Christian 0:02:03.200 --> 0:02:06.360 minister in the Methodist Church, but a hip hop fan 0:02:06.440 --> 0:02:08.520 so trying to bring these two together in the context 0:02:08.600 --> 0:02:11.120 of the pulpit was part of my life and it's 0:02:11.160 --> 0:02:14.519 not always pleasant, but in part church folks and Muslims 0:02:14.560 --> 0:02:17.000 have to recognize that their traditions have not always been 0:02:17.040 --> 0:02:19.560 at the best. So rather than just pointing fingers, it's 0:02:19.600 --> 0:02:21.640 time to have a conversation. So do you break down 0:02:21.760 --> 0:02:23.839 rap lyrics? Like if I said that line, y'all would 0:02:23.840 --> 0:02:27.040 break down what that means? Yeah, that's what we do. 0:02:27.120 --> 0:02:29.000 That's that's that's where I come in at. You know 0:02:29.040 --> 0:02:31.680 what I'm saying. And then I have my interpretation of 0:02:31.720 --> 0:02:34.240 what different artists or different you know people mean by 0:02:34.240 --> 0:02:36.560 when they say certain things. And then Doc has his 0:02:36.639 --> 0:02:38.880 interpretation and we put it out for the class, and 0:02:39.040 --> 0:02:41.560 we have different students that have different interpretations of these things. 0:02:41.720 --> 0:02:43.440 Can you give us an example of like a song 0:02:43.520 --> 0:02:45.400 or a lyric that you guys would breakdown the jay 0:02:45.480 --> 0:02:47.360 Z line. I would love to hear that, like Jesus 0:02:47.360 --> 0:02:49.920 can't save you life starts from the church. Well, I 0:02:49.919 --> 0:02:53.160 mean that's basically his outlook on basically the neglect that 0:02:53.200 --> 0:02:54.920 the church has had for a lot of people. You 0:02:54.919 --> 0:02:56.600 know what I'm saying when we say the church. We 0:02:56.639 --> 0:02:59.800 don't necessarily mean Christianity. We talk about the churches, you know, 0:03:00.160 --> 0:03:02.080 idea and the concept of church, which a lot of 0:03:02.080 --> 0:03:04.960 people have issues with in Mountain times, especially when we 0:03:05.000 --> 0:03:07.880 look at the millennials. The millennials, they're not running away 0:03:07.919 --> 0:03:10.799 from the church, you know, they're they're they're running to Christ. 0:03:11.000 --> 0:03:12.920 And a lot of people now a moundern times don't 0:03:12.960 --> 0:03:15.960 really believe that they need to go to a church 0:03:16.160 --> 0:03:18.320 to get closer to Christ or God. Got you. That's 0:03:18.440 --> 0:03:20.000 that's how I took the line that it was more 0:03:20.080 --> 0:03:23.200 like a you don't have to be religious to be spiritual. Absolutely, 0:03:23.280 --> 0:03:26.000 and that's definitely you know, topics of conversation that we 0:03:26.080 --> 0:03:28.880 have during the basically the context of this course. So 0:03:28.960 --> 0:03:34.000 you're like a gospel rap genius kind of. I mean, look, 0:03:34.040 --> 0:03:36.280 the sole purpose of this course is not to sit 0:03:36.320 --> 0:03:38.760 around and break down rap lyrics. It's a divine define 0:03:38.960 --> 0:03:41.000 religion as a culture, to find hip hop as a culture, 0:03:41.200 --> 0:03:43.840 show the similarities between the two, and show the times 0:03:43.840 --> 0:03:46.880 where maybe they don't necessarily coaligned and coexist with each 0:03:46.880 --> 0:03:48.560 other in the way that we would all like them too. 0:03:48.920 --> 0:03:51.440 You got a degree or something like that. I don't 0:03:51.480 --> 0:03:54.680 have one day of college. Y, wow, somebody gave you 0:03:54.680 --> 0:03:56.800 like an honorary doctorate or something. No, no, they gave 0:03:56.840 --> 0:03:59.520 me a day, but ain't give me a Well, I 0:03:59.520 --> 0:04:01.320 don't know. I need to talk to rights about that. 0:04:01.480 --> 0:04:05.960 We'll had that conversation. Why didn't something you wanted to 0:04:05.960 --> 0:04:10.040 do that? Well, I've been teaching religion for twenty one years, 0:04:10.040 --> 0:04:11.600 but I've been a fan of hip hop for much 0:04:11.640 --> 0:04:14.320 longer than that, and so when I'm talking about God 0:04:14.320 --> 0:04:23.400 and a cret So when I moved to Houston, had 0:04:23.400 --> 0:04:25.080 only made sense to try to be in touch with 0:04:25.120 --> 0:04:27.159 some of the artists that have influenced me over the years. 0:04:27.160 --> 0:04:29.800 So I had one of my students, Andrea Matthews, reach 0:04:29.880 --> 0:04:32.280 out to Bunn. We had a phone conversation. I asked 0:04:32.320 --> 0:04:35.960 him to come in and lecture, and it benefited me. 0:04:36.279 --> 0:04:37.760 I wanted to hear what he had to say, but 0:04:37.800 --> 0:04:40.520 my students definitely needed to hear what he had to say. 0:04:40.560 --> 0:04:43.039 We had a conversation in my office and it was 0:04:43.080 --> 0:04:44.919 clear to us over a short period of time that 0:04:45.000 --> 0:04:48.479 he needed to have a more sustained presence on campus. 0:04:48.520 --> 0:04:50.680 So I asked if he'd be willing to co teach 0:04:50.720 --> 0:04:53.480 the course For me, I thought that would be unique 0:04:54.120 --> 0:04:56.880 that you'd have an academic who knows religion and there's 0:04:56.920 --> 0:05:01.080 a hip hop plan partnered with an artist who also 0:05:01.160 --> 0:05:04.600 knows religion, as a conversation that wasn't taking place anywhere else. 0:05:04.960 --> 0:05:08.120 How do y'all feel about Kanye calling himself Jesus? I'm 0:05:08.160 --> 0:05:10.280 sure that don't come up. Well, I mean that has 0:05:10.360 --> 0:05:12.480 come up, and it contacts of class. I mean again, 0:05:12.520 --> 0:05:14.640 it's just you know, this is not the first time 0:05:14.680 --> 0:05:17.560 that people within hip hop have identified themselves with diddies. 0:05:17.560 --> 0:05:20.120 You know, we talk about Hove, we talk about the 0:05:20.160 --> 0:05:24.520 concept of two podcasts of black Jesus. You know, hey, 0:05:24.600 --> 0:05:27.120 you know what, we may have to have that conversation now, 0:05:28.440 --> 0:05:30.320 I'm calling confused with the similarity because a lot of 0:05:30.360 --> 0:05:33.080 people would be upset with this. Course, a lot of 0:05:33.080 --> 0:05:35.360 people feel that hip hop is not all positive. It 0:05:35.360 --> 0:05:36.839 has nothing to do with the church. It has nothing 0:05:36.839 --> 0:05:39.200 to do with Christianity or or God or anything. But 0:05:41.040 --> 0:05:43.960 unless you're talking about a Lacreze, well no, not necessarily, 0:05:44.000 --> 0:05:46.640 because I think what a lot of people identify as 0:05:46.720 --> 0:05:49.720 hip hop culture is really just rap music. Rap music 0:05:49.839 --> 0:05:51.200 is a part of hip hop, but it's not all 0:05:51.200 --> 0:05:54.240 of what hip hop encompasses. It is not always what 0:05:54.400 --> 0:05:56.440 hip hop was started. You know, what hip hop was 0:05:56.440 --> 0:05:59.000 created to represent? What hip hop was created to do, 0:05:59.120 --> 0:06:00.280 you know what I'm saying. But there are a lot 0:06:00.279 --> 0:06:03.799 of great examples of great you know, words and lyrics 0:06:03.800 --> 0:06:05.160 and me something, this is what, this is what I 0:06:05.240 --> 0:06:07.559 want to hear now and then And here's the thing. See, 0:06:07.760 --> 0:06:10.680 you think that you're thinking that because I'm talking about 0:06:10.760 --> 0:06:14.200 a crazy subject matter, that it can't be spiritual. And 0:06:14.240 --> 0:06:16.839 I understand that, you know, drawing that connotation, but you 0:06:16.880 --> 0:06:19.240 have to understand. People are speaking to their struggles, you 0:06:19.279 --> 0:06:21.200 know what I'm saying. People are speaking to the truths 0:06:21.400 --> 0:06:23.520 and the life and the environment in which they live in. 0:06:23.760 --> 0:06:25.440 And you have to really think about the fact that 0:06:25.480 --> 0:06:27.040 I mean, you think if Jesus was here today, where 0:06:27.040 --> 0:06:29.760 would Jesus be. Jesus would be trying to save these 0:06:29.800 --> 0:06:33.479 people that we think Jesus would condemn. And when you 0:06:33.480 --> 0:06:34.880 talk about that, you know a lot of people look 0:06:34.880 --> 0:06:37.320 at the industry as it's the devil's land. You know, 0:06:37.560 --> 0:06:39.279 it gives you a lot of money, it gives you fame, 0:06:39.560 --> 0:06:41.360 it gives you all of the things you necessarily want, 0:06:41.360 --> 0:06:42.720 but a lot of times you sell your soul. You're 0:06:42.760 --> 0:06:46.840 talking about the fame and women, and but that's always 0:06:46.839 --> 0:06:48.480 been an issue that the church has had with music 0:06:48.480 --> 0:06:50.839 in general. It didn't start with hip hop, you know, 0:06:50.880 --> 0:06:54.760 the churches had The church had issues with gospel music 0:06:54.920 --> 0:06:58.039 in general, which is all about, you know, proclaiming your 0:06:58.080 --> 0:07:00.880 faith and your love for Christ in a higher power. 0:07:01.040 --> 0:07:03.400 The church couldn't accept that in its early days, so 0:07:03.440 --> 0:07:06.360 of course they wouldn't necessarily accept hip hop, you know. 0:07:06.520 --> 0:07:09.160 But we have to look at, you know, the questions 0:07:09.200 --> 0:07:12.080 and the way of life that hip hop tackles. And 0:07:12.360 --> 0:07:14.880 you know, hip hop is a culture that for me, 0:07:14.960 --> 0:07:17.280 it helps me become a better person. It helps me 0:07:17.320 --> 0:07:19.960 answer a lot of the heavy questions about life. Who 0:07:20.000 --> 0:07:21.760 am I? Why am I here? It helps me to 0:07:21.800 --> 0:07:24.040 struggle with the choices that I have to make in life. 0:07:24.040 --> 0:07:26.000 So tell me what's the different between that and religion. 0:07:26.240 --> 0:07:29.160 You also can't let churches off the hook, right. The 0:07:29.320 --> 0:07:31.920 whole lot of ministers don't say it explicitly, but their 0:07:31.960 --> 0:07:34.320 actions prove it. Pimpad ain't easy, right, They're doing the 0:07:34.360 --> 0:07:36.680 same sort of thing. And if you think in terms 0:07:36.680 --> 0:07:40.120 of new developments and church, it's the prosperity gospel. That's 0:07:40.160 --> 0:07:43.920 all about getting yours right. So Crafflo Dollar, td Jakes, 0:07:44.080 --> 0:07:49.840 Eddie Longs, you know, so that that similarity exists, we're 0:07:49.880 --> 0:07:53.400 too quick to assume that what churches say about themselves 0:07:53.560 --> 0:07:55.960 is accurate, right right, No, No, I agree. I think 0:07:56.000 --> 0:07:57.960 I think church a lot of churches are big pimp game. 0:07:58.120 --> 0:07:59.480 And then it feels like a lot of people do 0:07:59.520 --> 0:08:01.560 it for the money, not necessarily for the reason that 0:08:01.600 --> 0:08:03.920 they should be doing it. In the music industry the same. 0:08:04.000 --> 0:08:06.280 But I just it's kind of like, you know, some 0:08:06.280 --> 0:08:08.240 people don't drink this with this. It's kind of like 0:08:08.320 --> 0:08:10.560 I don't have my hip hop with my church. It 0:08:10.640 --> 0:08:13.440 seems too totally different reasons. I think that means it's 0:08:13.440 --> 0:08:16.240 a problem with your Churchcuse I don't think it's a problem. 0:08:16.400 --> 0:08:17.880 I don't think you have a problem with your hip hop. 0:08:17.960 --> 0:08:20.840 But you said earlier about a lot of millennials stay 0:08:20.880 --> 0:08:23.240 away from church. I feel the same way, like I 0:08:23.280 --> 0:08:25.320 have a relationship with God, I pray, I read the Bible, 0:08:25.400 --> 0:08:28.760 and because church is square, but church church feel like 0:08:28.760 --> 0:08:31.840 a way like it feels like it's it's a business. 0:08:32.200 --> 0:08:33.640 Well that's where we go to more and more churches. 0:08:33.679 --> 0:08:35.600 No matter what church, every one too. It always feels 0:08:35.640 --> 0:08:38.760 like a business is opposed to really getting closer to 0:08:38.800 --> 0:08:40.520 God and trying to get yourself better and be a 0:08:40.559 --> 0:08:41.880 better man and be a better father than be a 0:08:41.880 --> 0:08:43.880 better husband and be a better person in your community. 0:08:44.040 --> 0:08:46.280 It seems like it's always a business first, and that's 0:08:46.320 --> 0:08:49.040 always my problem with most churches. Yeah, well that's the thing, 0:08:49.040 --> 0:08:51.679 we know. You know, religion in church are two separate things, 0:08:52.080 --> 0:08:53.760 you know what I'm saying. So, you know, going to 0:08:53.840 --> 0:08:56.680 church is really just about the practices of being in 0:08:56.679 --> 0:08:58.440 the church and being in that church flog. It really 0:08:58.480 --> 0:09:01.000 doesn't Going to church doesn't mean you're getting any closer 0:09:01.520 --> 0:09:04.040 to God, you know what I'm saying. In some instances, 0:09:04.040 --> 0:09:07.679 it maybe you're following somebody that that's pulling you away, right, 0:09:07.800 --> 0:09:08.959 you know what I'm saying. So you have to come 0:09:09.000 --> 0:09:11.520 to terms with your own personal struggle, your own personal 0:09:11.600 --> 0:09:14.000 choices as to who you want to be. And in 0:09:14.000 --> 0:09:16.240 a lot of cases, hip hop make you helps you 0:09:16.400 --> 0:09:18.640 to make these choices and helps you to make them 0:09:18.679 --> 0:09:20.640 in a better way. Now, when we talk about this, 0:09:20.760 --> 0:09:24.000 like I said, you know, people confuse rap songs with 0:09:24.160 --> 0:09:27.320 hip hop culture, all right. That's rap music is a 0:09:27.440 --> 0:09:30.439 very very small part of hip hop culture. It's just 0:09:30.480 --> 0:09:33.160 the most dominant factor of it. It's the one that 0:09:33.200 --> 0:09:36.640 we see all the time, absolutely, you know. But we 0:09:36.720 --> 0:09:38.440 have to learn to navigate this language in the same 0:09:38.480 --> 0:09:40.360 way that we have to learn to navigate the language 0:09:40.400 --> 0:09:44.640 of religion and find our way to you know, better ourselves. Now, 0:09:44.640 --> 0:09:47.920 do you guys touch on somebody like Mace who people 0:09:47.960 --> 0:09:50.240 were up in arms when he was still rapping, but 0:09:50.320 --> 0:09:53.000 he was being a passage and they were saying, they 0:09:53.000 --> 0:09:54.800 were saying, there's a difference. He was saying, there's a 0:09:54.800 --> 0:09:58.360 difference between him as an artist's completely separate as him 0:09:58.360 --> 0:10:02.920 as a passa. Can you separate those two? Doctor? That's 0:10:02.920 --> 0:10:05.679 a rough question. Yeah, that's a hard one. I mean, 0:10:06.600 --> 0:10:08.920 we don't know. We don't talk about artists and that 0:10:09.080 --> 0:10:10.959 like amazed like because that would be more about to 0:10:11.240 --> 0:10:14.079 you know, really just personal. Yeah. Yeah's you know, we're 0:10:14.080 --> 0:10:15.400 trying to get I was trying to get make up 0:10:15.440 --> 0:10:16.920 here because I mean, you know, I think we all 0:10:16.920 --> 0:10:19.280 were confused with Mace, you know, and what Mace did 0:10:19.360 --> 0:10:21.080 was when he gave up hip hop and he gave 0:10:21.120 --> 0:10:23.280 his life to God. I thought it was amazing, you know, 0:10:23.520 --> 0:10:25.320 and I thought that if he speaks well, you thought 0:10:25.320 --> 0:10:27.160 it was Sincere. I thought I thought it was Sincere. 0:10:27.200 --> 0:10:29.000 I thought it would be great because Mace was somebody 0:10:29.040 --> 0:10:30.360 that the kids looked up to. It if he could 0:10:30.360 --> 0:10:32.400 preach the good word, that's always great. It's always great 0:10:32.440 --> 0:10:34.640 on somebody from my community can do something good and 0:10:34.679 --> 0:10:36.559 help somebody else, no matter what it, whether it's church, 0:10:36.800 --> 0:10:39.280 build communities, whatever it is. And then when he came 0:10:39.320 --> 0:10:41.920 back talking about ping ping shooting guns here like whoa 0:10:42.000 --> 0:10:44.360 Like this isn't from pastor mids to murder mass. That's 0:10:44.360 --> 0:10:46.640 where it gets confusing. Yeah, of course, I mean, and 0:10:46.720 --> 0:10:48.200 that's a struggle that he's going to have to learn 0:10:48.280 --> 0:10:49.800 to deal with, you know what I'm saying. And that's 0:10:49.840 --> 0:10:52.280 his personal struggle. But I don't think it's reflective of 0:10:52.520 --> 0:10:55.959 either hip hop or religion nowadays. I think that that 0:10:56.679 --> 0:11:00.160 the pastor Mason Betha is an anomaly into itself and 0:11:00.280 --> 0:11:03.520 life is a struggle, right, You're constantly moving between this 0:11:03.880 --> 0:11:06.439 life is a struggle. The difficulty for me is why 0:11:06.480 --> 0:11:07.959 do you have to give up hip hop to be 0:11:08.040 --> 0:11:10.240 a part of the church. Right that if the church 0:11:10.400 --> 0:11:13.520 is really about the business of making life whole right 0:11:13.640 --> 0:11:15.880 kind of addressing the spiritual issues that you have. Then 0:11:15.920 --> 0:11:20.120 you shouldn't have to give this up. Becomes you don't, 0:11:20.160 --> 0:11:22.679 I don't believe it a reverend and talk about shooting 0:11:22.920 --> 0:11:25.199 and selling. See, but you're making the assumption that that's 0:11:25.200 --> 0:11:28.360 what hip hop culture is. No, you are, because you're 0:11:28.360 --> 0:11:30.719 saying that you're saying that gun culture and hip hop 0:11:31.000 --> 0:11:33.319 are synonymous and that you can't say paradom. No, I'm not. 0:11:33.400 --> 0:11:36.160 I'm not saying that I'm saying in Macy's situation. Oh okay, 0:11:36.160 --> 0:11:39.160 I'm Are you specific to me talk about shooting guns 0:11:39.320 --> 0:11:42.079 and continue to talk about threesomes and continue to talk 0:11:42.080 --> 0:11:43.800 about a lot of those things when you say you 0:11:43.880 --> 0:11:46.240 gave it up, that's what confused me. But then church 0:11:46.320 --> 0:11:48.400 are just doing it, not talking about it. Right, So 0:11:48.520 --> 0:11:51.840 there are ways in which churches kill people. Right, if 0:11:51.880 --> 0:11:54.160 you think about it, Black churches are composed of at 0:11:54.240 --> 0:11:57.160 least seventy percent black women. But if you think in 0:11:57.320 --> 0:12:01.040 terms of leadership opportunities, how black women are discussed within 0:12:01.160 --> 0:12:03.760 context of churches, there's silence in a certain way. They're 0:12:03.840 --> 0:12:06.199 killed and don't be gay or less being in a 0:12:06.280 --> 0:12:08.760 black church. Right. The only way you can survive in 0:12:08.880 --> 0:12:12.640 that is if you're a musician, or you sit and 0:12:12.800 --> 0:12:16.839 you eat the disrespect. Right, So churches, churches are doing 0:12:16.960 --> 0:12:20.120 something that is deeply harmful, but simply just pointing a 0:12:20.200 --> 0:12:22.840 finger when it comes to vulgarity, because I think that's 0:12:22.880 --> 0:12:25.200 the main thing with hip hop that would probably turn 0:12:25.240 --> 0:12:28.280 off from religious folks. I call Jeezy past the young 0:12:28.320 --> 0:12:30.559 because I feel like he'd be spitting ghetto gospel. But 0:12:31.280 --> 0:12:33.160 I mean, I use vulgarity, but I think some people 0:12:33.240 --> 0:12:35.920 just cuss too much for the sake of cousin. How 0:12:35.960 --> 0:12:38.000 do you get religious folks to look past the vulgarity 0:12:38.000 --> 0:12:39.760 to actually no, listen to what he's saying. It's a 0:12:39.840 --> 0:12:42.800 message in it that could be used for spiritual purposes. Well, 0:12:42.840 --> 0:12:44.480 I think we have to give a deeper understanding of 0:12:44.720 --> 0:12:46.199 what hip hop culture is, and we have to do 0:12:46.280 --> 0:12:48.400 a better job of explaining ourselves to the world and 0:12:48.480 --> 0:12:50.920 our struggles to the world. And you know, if people 0:12:51.000 --> 0:12:52.679 can't take the time to sit and dissect through it, 0:12:52.720 --> 0:12:55.000 then maybe it's not just not for them. You know, 0:12:55.120 --> 0:12:57.840 I'm not here to sell religious people on hip hop, 0:12:58.240 --> 0:13:00.480 and I wouldn't buy into any religion and that somebody 0:13:00.600 --> 0:13:02.319 was trying to sell me. You know, I just speak 0:13:02.360 --> 0:13:05.079 to my personal struggle, and I make my choices, and 0:13:05.280 --> 0:13:08.040 you know, what happens happens, and I'm I'm aware of 0:13:08.120 --> 0:13:10.199 it and I'm ready to deal with it, you know. 0:13:10.360 --> 0:13:12.920 But I'm not here to sell hip And what we 0:13:13.040 --> 0:13:15.800 do in this class is not selling hip hop to religion, 0:13:15.840 --> 0:13:17.480 you know what I'm saying, because I don't think we 0:13:17.480 --> 0:13:20.280 should have to. I think there's I think we're brothers 0:13:20.320 --> 0:13:22.200 in the struggle, you know. And if you look at 0:13:22.200 --> 0:13:25.600 our Black communities, that's you know, it's it's really divided 0:13:25.640 --> 0:13:28.400 between that hip hop culture and the religion. But we're 0:13:28.440 --> 0:13:30.480 all growing growing up and we're all living in the 0:13:30.559 --> 0:13:32.959 same conditions in the same community. So we have to 0:13:33.040 --> 0:13:35.760 find similarities because when we go into these inner cities 0:13:35.800 --> 0:13:37.960 of America, the only people that care about those people 0:13:38.000 --> 0:13:39.959 are the hip hop people in the church. How many 0:13:40.000 --> 0:13:42.160 times have you had to explain and like what you 0:13:42.200 --> 0:13:44.599 said just now with envy, that hip hop culture is 0:13:44.679 --> 0:13:47.959 not gun culture, it's not drug culture. I mean, because 0:13:48.360 --> 0:13:50.800 the problem is is that the perception of hip hop 0:13:51.320 --> 0:13:53.640 right is a lot more than what hip hop is 0:13:53.840 --> 0:13:56.640 right so you know, everybody assumes that hip hop is 0:13:56.720 --> 0:13:59.320 much worse than it actually is. Everybody believes that these 0:13:59.360 --> 0:14:01.920 guys are bigger criminals and that we're bigger threats to 0:14:02.000 --> 0:14:04.360 society than we really are. And the problem is that 0:14:04.480 --> 0:14:07.440 we've we've sold that through rap music for a while, 0:14:07.559 --> 0:14:09.800 you know, through these major labels. That's what they've done. 0:14:10.120 --> 0:14:13.040 So the main music that's promoted and marketed as hip 0:14:13.120 --> 0:14:16.839 hop culture is not what anybody would really want to 0:14:16.960 --> 0:14:19.480 represent them, you know. You know, when we go to 0:14:19.560 --> 0:14:21.440 the club on Saturday night and we dance in the club, 0:14:21.520 --> 0:14:23.440 that's a good thing, there's nothing wrong with that, but 0:14:23.560 --> 0:14:26.040 that's not who we are. That's really just a break 0:14:26.080 --> 0:14:27.760 and a release to get away from who we have 0:14:27.880 --> 0:14:31.160 to be usually five days a week from nine to five. Right, 0:14:31.200 --> 0:14:32.880 So there's no reason for us to start trying to 0:14:33.880 --> 0:14:35.840 throw rocks at the other side, because you know, we're 0:14:36.320 --> 0:14:38.360 coupable for some things in hip hop, the same way 0:14:38.400 --> 0:14:40.800 that religion is culpable for some things. But if we're 0:14:40.880 --> 0:14:42.640 just going to sit across from each other and think 0:14:42.640 --> 0:14:44.840 about the negative things, that we're not going to get anywhere, 0:14:45.040 --> 0:14:46.440 you know, So we have to start looking at the 0:14:46.480 --> 0:14:48.960 similarities and the different ways in which we can work 0:14:49.000 --> 0:14:51.360 together to get to the same place, because I truly 0:14:51.360 --> 0:14:54.120 believe hip hop culture and religion culture is trying to 0:14:54.200 --> 0:14:56.280 do the same thing help people deal with life. Now, 0:14:56.360 --> 0:14:58.920 you guys addressed marriage in this course because one thing 0:14:58.920 --> 0:15:01.600 I've always admired about you. You have such a strong 0:15:01.720 --> 0:15:03.600 union with your wife, and you've always been proud to 0:15:03.640 --> 0:15:05.480 be married and brought your wife with you everywhere. It's 0:15:05.520 --> 0:15:08.040 not something you try to hide, right, you know, so, um, 0:15:08.080 --> 0:15:10.640 it's that's something that you guys addressed as well. Marriage. No, 0:15:10.720 --> 0:15:13.160 I don't know you really talk. That hasn't been part 0:15:13.200 --> 0:15:15.480 of the conversation. That's just stuff I'd be doing on 0:15:15.600 --> 0:15:20.120 the side. Online course. How can people get involved with 0:15:20.160 --> 0:15:21.680 the online course? How can they get in part of 0:15:21.720 --> 0:15:25.160 it if they're not from Houston or you know, from Idaho. No, No, 0:15:25.440 --> 0:15:27.880 that's the beautiful thing about this course. It's available free 0:15:28.000 --> 0:15:30.400 online to anyone in the world. Basically, all you need 0:15:30.760 --> 0:15:33.240 is an Internet connection and you know, a laptop or 0:15:33.240 --> 0:15:35.280 an iPad is some kind of tablet, and you should 0:15:35.280 --> 0:15:36.960 be able to take this course in full. It's going 0:15:37.000 --> 0:15:39.840 to be available on March twenty fourth, twenty fourth excuse me. 0:15:40.040 --> 0:15:42.800 So you go to www dot edX dot org you 0:15:42.880 --> 0:15:45.560 look up religion and hip hop. The actual title of 0:15:45.600 --> 0:15:48.920 the course is really one fifty seven X R E 0:15:49.120 --> 0:15:51.440 l I one fifty seven X and you can take 0:15:51.480 --> 0:15:54.280 it for free. Now there's a certificate, a certification that 0:15:54.360 --> 0:15:56.840 you can get if you want for a small fee 0:15:57.080 --> 0:15:59.600 to show that you actually did everything you needed to 0:15:59.640 --> 0:16:01.880 do in the course. You completed the full six weeks 0:16:01.920 --> 0:16:04.720 of work, and that's signed by Docking myself. And it's 0:16:04.760 --> 0:16:07.160 something that it's not accredited yet, but hopefully as we 0:16:07.200 --> 0:16:08.760 get further and further than this thing, it would be 0:16:08.800 --> 0:16:10.600 something that you could actually be accredited for that. I 0:16:10.640 --> 0:16:11.880 want to ask both of you, because you know, this 0:16:12.000 --> 0:16:14.400 course is a lot is helping people grow. Do you 0:16:14.560 --> 0:16:16.920 think you're allowed to grow in hip hop? I think 0:16:16.920 --> 0:16:20.040 you're supposed to grow in you know. I think that's 0:16:20.080 --> 0:16:22.240 the problem is that, you know, for one, the perception 0:16:22.560 --> 0:16:24.960 within the cultures that as a young man's game, you know, 0:16:25.040 --> 0:16:27.600 But I don't think anything could be further from the truth. 0:16:27.640 --> 0:16:30.320 I've been listening to hip hop, you know, for you know, 0:16:30.480 --> 0:16:32.600 for thirty five years now, y'all been listening to since 0:16:32.640 --> 0:16:36.080 I was a kid, and I've been practitioning hip hop 0:16:36.160 --> 0:16:38.560 over twenty years now. So the people that started with 0:16:38.640 --> 0:16:41.120 me when I was eighteen was somewhere between sixteen and 0:16:41.200 --> 0:16:44.120 twenty five. Well, those people now are somewhere between thirty 0:16:44.160 --> 0:16:46.200 seven and forty five, you know what I'm saying. So 0:16:46.800 --> 0:16:49.000 I want to make sure that I'm still relatable to 0:16:49.080 --> 0:16:51.080 them in a real way. Like the way that they 0:16:51.200 --> 0:16:53.480 choose to have fun in the confines of where they 0:16:53.560 --> 0:16:55.800 construct their family is kind of the same way that 0:16:55.880 --> 0:16:57.320 I do. Like I'm gonna go out and have a 0:16:57.360 --> 0:16:58.800 good time and do what I want to do in 0:16:59.000 --> 0:17:03.000 terms of having fun or whatever. But after I made 0:17:03.040 --> 0:17:05.400 sure home is good, the wife is good, the kids 0:17:05.520 --> 0:17:07.240 is good at the responsibilities that did that, and I 0:17:07.320 --> 0:17:08.800 think a lot of people do that. You know, we're 0:17:08.840 --> 0:17:11.840 not just because we're getting older doesn't mean we're getting old, 0:17:12.400 --> 0:17:15.600 you know. And I'm trying to make that relatable. Absolutely, 0:17:15.720 --> 0:17:24.439 I'm a fifty year old fan appreciate but growth as 0:17:24.480 --> 0:17:26.960 part of the process. It seems to me it has 0:17:27.000 --> 0:17:29.920 to happen. And that's part of the issue with churches 0:17:30.400 --> 0:17:33.119 that they can say all of this, they can resist it, 0:17:33.280 --> 0:17:35.520 try to act holier than thou. But the bottom line 0:17:35.640 --> 0:17:37.840 is they change or they die. And if they're gonna 0:17:37.880 --> 0:17:40.440 reach young people, they have to answer the questions young 0:17:40.520 --> 0:17:43.159 people are asking in a language that makes sense to them, 0:17:43.320 --> 0:17:46.080 and hip hop, it seems to me, is the way. Listen, 0:17:46.119 --> 0:17:48.080 don't ask them just regular hip hop questions the bun 0:17:48.160 --> 0:17:51.159 be because you know, here we go, you are the 0:17:51.240 --> 0:17:52.920