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Speaker 1: Hey, welcome, and I'm Doug Gottie. This is all ball.

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Speaker 1: So as I told you before the playoffs started, the

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Speaker 1: Warriors are gonna win it. I said it. You can

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Speaker 1: roll it back and listen for the finals. I said,

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Speaker 1: Warriors in six. I thought there was something symbolic about

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Speaker 1: beating the Celtics in Boston Garden. We didn't really have

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Speaker 1: any sort of incredible close ending games. We had a

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Speaker 1: bit of a meltdown from Jayson Tatum. I think that'd

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Speaker 1: be fair, and the limitation of the Celtics. Steph Curry

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Speaker 1: had a couple of incredible nights. The last two in

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Speaker 1: Boston were remarkable. But I thought that the underrated part

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Speaker 1: continues to be the Warriors defense. When the story of

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Speaker 1: the Warriors is told, it's gonna be about Staff and

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Speaker 1: about the three point shooting, maybe about Draymond and playing

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Speaker 1: small ball. But the truth is that the defense is

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Speaker 1: what decided it. You know, between they're consistently getting their

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Speaker 1: hands on basketballs to causing some of these turnovers, to

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Speaker 1: forcing Jalen Brown would use his left hand, their defense

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Speaker 1: was just outstanding. And that's why that cliche works. Right

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Speaker 1: Offense wins games, defense wins Championships. That's exactly what happened

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Speaker 1: in the finals. Well, we can kind of go through it.

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Speaker 1: And you know, I think I was the first guy,

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Speaker 1: both on Fox Sports Radio and on this podcast to

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Speaker 1: tell you that when Andrew Wiggins was acquired, it was

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Speaker 1: a great fit. You know, when you don't when you

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Speaker 1: could be the fourth and fifth guy and just use

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Speaker 1: your athletic ability and when you get a mismatch, go

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Speaker 1: to work. And then his his confidence grew and grew

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Speaker 1: and grew. How about Gary Payton GP two one amazing

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Speaker 1: uh spirit, that guy has the energy he brought and

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Speaker 1: when he got in remember when they lost in game one,

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Speaker 1: he didn't play, played in game two and the rest

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Speaker 1: of a they stay is is kind of history. So

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Speaker 1: I thought the better team want. I think Steve Kirk

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Speaker 1: continues to be an amazing coach. And then the challenge

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Speaker 1: for the Celtics. We'll talk about it with our us

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Speaker 1: Mike uh procopio, but um, I think the Celtics still

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Speaker 1: are probably a h a ball screen point guard away.

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Speaker 1: That would be my there's some other but I think

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Speaker 1: that helps him with Robert Williams as well. Well, let's

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Speaker 1: get into that. Mike Procopio is. He has been um

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Speaker 1: a scout with with the Celtics, he's been a developmental

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Speaker 1: coach with the Mavericks, and of course he's worked for

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Speaker 1: years with Tim Grover as his kind of workout guy

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Speaker 1: and and guru as well as had an incredible relationship

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Speaker 1: with Kobe Bryant in prepping Kobe Bryant for so many

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Speaker 1: big games late later in his career. Let's catch up

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Speaker 1: with him right now. How do you just start? What

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Speaker 1: was the when? When? Yeah? I mean you are synonymous, um,

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Speaker 1: two people who are who guys in basketball with a

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Speaker 1: lot of the things you do, a film study, the

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Speaker 1: work you do with draft guys, players stuff in the NBA.

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Speaker 1: But basketball and you when did they meet? Well, I

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Speaker 1: mean obviously you know usually with fat Italian guys, we

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Speaker 1: started like nine years old playing but um, you know

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Speaker 1: I wasn't very good. But what I did was the

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Speaker 1: smartest thing I did for my career was I was

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Speaker 1: a scorekeeper at this local men's league in my town.

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Speaker 1: And what happens is like all summer, all men's league

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Speaker 1: is actually a pretty good league. Uh. There was a

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Speaker 1: referee that was involved. Um. I had a small involvement

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Speaker 1: with an AU team called the Boston a basketball club,

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Speaker 1: the b ABC that was coached by Leo Pappeale, and

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Speaker 1: A was not a thing back then. I had no

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Speaker 1: idea what it was. I remember being at a summer

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Speaker 1: camp down at Cape Cod at Mass Maritime UM, and

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Speaker 1: we had a pretty good team. Remember Billy Curley, who

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Speaker 1: was a McDonald's All American, played a BC Sports. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so he went to this camp. I went to it.

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Speaker 1: I was like rising ninth grader and Billy was like

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Speaker 1: a rising senior. Well, they had this all star team

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Speaker 1: at camp. They had a bunch of good players that

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Speaker 1: played against the b ABC, a bunch of athletic city kids.

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Speaker 1: I had no idea who they were. There's no internet

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Speaker 1: back then. It's like nineteen oh my god, nine and

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Speaker 1: they were ridiculously good. Well, they've just had these four letters.

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Speaker 1: They came up in a Cadillac. Leo Leo drove it up.

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Speaker 1: A white Cadillac, pulled up with about twelve players in it,

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Speaker 1: and came in and played this game. Well, in the

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Speaker 1: summer league, there was a referee that had the shorts

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Speaker 1: on with b ABC. I said, how did you get

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Speaker 1: those shorts? He goes, well, I'm sort of in with

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Speaker 1: the team a little bit, and he knew I love basketball.

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Speaker 1: Like four years later, I was a high school coach.

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Speaker 1: I was entering my freshman year in college, and he goes, hey,

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Speaker 1: this guy's looking for somebody to help out keep score,

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Speaker 1: you know, maybe coach a little bit. It would be interested.

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Speaker 1: US said, yeah, hell yeah, I'll be interesting. So I

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Speaker 1: met Leo. You know who if anyone doesn't know what

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Speaker 1: Leo Appeale is, he's he's probably the most famous, you know,

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Speaker 1: amateur coach in Massachusetts history, as far as you're not

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Speaker 1: a high school coach, but like au coach, amateur things

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Speaker 1: like that. And we just struck up this relationship. They

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Speaker 1: had this team that would go to Vegas, and when

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Speaker 1: Vegas is actually good with sixty four teams and it,

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Speaker 1: they wanted like two years in a row and you know,

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Speaker 1: lost the buzzer or whatever year three. But you know

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Speaker 1: you're you're under selling it, Okay. So there were there

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Speaker 1: used to be Vegas, then Phoenix. Yeah right right. There

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Speaker 1: was Long Beach, which was Iszy Washington, Yep. It was Vegas,

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Speaker 1: which was the thinking national championship, and then there was

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Speaker 1: Phoenix and no one except for be ABC was Scooney

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Speaker 1: pen and Eggie McCrae and Chris Harren and Randall Jackson

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Speaker 1: ever won both, and they won both. They run both,

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Speaker 1: the only team to ever win both. And that was

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Speaker 1: it was. It was like winning the n C A

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Speaker 1: and n T. That's what That's what it was like, Doug.

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Speaker 1: I don't think anyone understands because A you so bad

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Speaker 1: these days for the most part, unless you go like

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Speaker 1: E Y B L or what have you. Like, these

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Speaker 1: teams were stacked with players, and I would always ask

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Speaker 1: Leo and sad Leo, we're running these tournaments. We've got

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Speaker 1: like seven McDonald's all Americans in the tournament. You know,

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Speaker 1: we invite Riverside church, scout shows, Tennessee travelers, all this stuff,

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Speaker 1: and no one comes to the games. And now you

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Speaker 1: get a dog. You watch these clips of like five

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Speaker 1: thousand people at these games with like decent talent, but

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Speaker 1: like it was unbelievable to me that we couldn't get

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Speaker 1: anybody coming to these games. But anyway, that's how I started,

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Speaker 1: and what happened was like I didn't know what I

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Speaker 1: wanted to do. I don't know if I wanted to

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Speaker 1: like try to be a head coach someday high school coach. Look,

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Speaker 1: I thought I was gonna work at a bank in

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Speaker 1: my town and Rivera be the JV coach and maybe

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Speaker 1: varsity coach, and that was it. Well, you know, I

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Speaker 1: started traveling around it with with these guys, and I

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Speaker 1: only traveled locally, and then now and then I would

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Speaker 1: work like twelve weeks of camp during the summer Eastern Invitational,

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Speaker 1: Nike All American Camp, and I would just sort of

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Speaker 1: try to learn as much as I could. But like

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Speaker 1: what happened was there's no trainers around, thankfully, and what

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Speaker 1: I would do was all our guys who would come

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Speaker 1: back for the summer when they would go to college,

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Speaker 1: I've come and work them out a little bit. Had

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Speaker 1: no idea what I was doing, but we like Scooty

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Speaker 1: Pen and you know, Chris Herron and Eggie McCrae and

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Speaker 1: those guys, and I would just sort of work him

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Speaker 1: out when I whenever I could. And yeah, what happened

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Speaker 1: there was we we ended up being one of the

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Speaker 1: first Nike team sponsors, and I ended up going to

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Speaker 1: Nike All American Camp. I met George Raveling, and that

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Speaker 1: just sort of how I started coming in with the

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Speaker 1: workout stuff a little bit more. And yeah, it's been

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Speaker 1: pretty cool experience ever since. So, um, in these workouts,

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Speaker 1: the early days of workouts, how did you put it together?

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Speaker 1: How did you decide what you were going to do? Well,

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Speaker 1: this is one of my best friends, a guy named

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Speaker 1: Dave Hoppla, And I'm sure you know Dave best sending

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Speaker 1: coach in the world. He used to go to this

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Speaker 1: camp in the Cape and when I was a young kid,

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Speaker 1: and he used to like just have these lectures. I

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Speaker 1: started befriending Dave and I would go to his workouts.

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Speaker 1: I would go to the Pocono's um Pocon Invitational camp.

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Speaker 1: He would speak and do a little bit more teaching

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Speaker 1: in his own camp, and I would just sort of

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Speaker 1: just at six am he would have these early bird workouts.

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Speaker 1: I would literally just have a notebook and just start

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Speaker 1: writing down stuff that he would do, and I would

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Speaker 1: just sort of emulate what he did and um, and

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Speaker 1: then that's sort of how I got my start in it. Now.

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Speaker 1: When I was at Nike camp UM, I met a

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Speaker 1: gentleman named Herb Livesey and takes a lot to guys

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Speaker 1: synonymous with player development. Herb was the director of player

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Speaker 1: development of cb A at the time, and Takes was

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Speaker 1: I think, just left Indiana State and they both started

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Speaker 1: working out the college councils at Nike, Tim Duncan, Vince Carter,

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Speaker 1: Nick Collinson, um, just you name it. They had it.

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Speaker 1: And I would just watch these workouts and I had

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Speaker 1: no idea what I was doing I had. I just

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Speaker 1: watched and took notes, and a big part of my

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Speaker 1: development as a workout guys basically just being at these

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Speaker 1: workouts at Nike. And then also in Rick Petino gets

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Speaker 1: the head head job in the presidency of the Boston Celtics.

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Speaker 1: He hires Leo Pappeel and I was able to sit

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Speaker 1: on sitting on Rick's pregame where pre draft workouts with

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Speaker 1: like you know, with Van Horne and McGrady and all

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Speaker 1: these guys that they would come in and work out,

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Speaker 1: and that was those two things had probably the biggest

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Speaker 1: impact on me as far as a teacher and an

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Speaker 1: individual workout coached and watching those three guys at work

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Speaker 1: work doing their craft and sort of separate venue. So

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Speaker 1: it was amazing. It was let's let's let's start with Hubla. Okay,

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Speaker 1: so he's an amazing shooting kill. He can sit there

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Speaker 1: and talk while he's making like shoots, he shoots his

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Speaker 1: body temperature. Yes, I mean it's unbelievable. Um, But in

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Speaker 1: terms of having it resonate with kids like Hattie, what

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Speaker 1: are the teaching points that you're able to take from

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Speaker 1: that and put into practice? So Dave was Dave was

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Speaker 1: very simplistic. What happened, Doug, And I'm sure you've done

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Speaker 1: it watching camp and watching lectures. Like there's two types

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Speaker 1: of shooting coaches. There's one guy's who knows what he's doing,

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Speaker 1: and there's the other that's full of ship like though

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Speaker 1: usually I'm sorry, apologizes right, but you can swear that

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Speaker 1: there's a party, thankfully, thankfully, thankfully. So there's the guys

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Speaker 1: that actually know what they're doing, and then there's the

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Speaker 1: fullest ship guys that want to talk about science, angles

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Speaker 1: and all this other stuff goods like they're robbing money.

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Speaker 1: They're completely robbing money. Yes, yeah, And Dave would just

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Speaker 1: be simple. Dave would be like, look, split your body

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Speaker 1: in half. It's a shot line. The ball, your hand

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Speaker 1: in your foot, you're shooting foot should all line up

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Speaker 1: and you need to you know, you need to have

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Speaker 1: a wrinkle in your wrist. You need to keep the

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Speaker 1: ball straight. Obviously, see the little bit of daylight on

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Speaker 1: your get the ball, ball off your palm, and you

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Speaker 1: want to shoot the ball straight. You want to shoot

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Speaker 1: the ball with power, and you want to bring it

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Speaker 1: with your elbow to your eyebrow on the follow through

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Speaker 1: and and freeze your follow through. So it's such an

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Speaker 1: easy not easy because it's really tough to do, but

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Speaker 1: like it's a very easy concept. Then you listen to

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Speaker 1: these guys that put you to sleep. It's like reading

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Speaker 1: reading stereo instructions from radio shack back in the eighties,

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Speaker 1: Like you don't understand what their concepts are, and they're

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Speaker 1: just completely full of ship. Dave from Second One, Hey,

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Speaker 1: he could shoot it, b he could talk it. See,

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Speaker 1: he could teach it. And it was just so simple

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Speaker 1: how his approach was. And that's how I sort of

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Speaker 1: developed my mantra being dominating. Simple is listening to guys

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Speaker 1: like Dave speak and teach, where everybody else just seemed

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Speaker 1: like what are you doing? Man? Like you know, yeah,

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Speaker 1: So that's sort of how it's. It's interesting and we'll

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Speaker 1: we'll circle back. I want to We're gonna get back

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Speaker 1: to all of these things. But I feel like that's

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Speaker 1: like I now. So I started back up a youth program.

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Speaker 1: I saw that and then as as part of it,

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Speaker 1: like I have parents like, hey, would you come work

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Speaker 1: out my kids? So I come and they're like, well,

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Speaker 1: you're very like fundamental and basic, and I was like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: like do like all of the ball handling stuff, I don't.

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Speaker 1: I get it, but I don't get it. It's you know,

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Speaker 1: it's like it's still a game of being able to

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Speaker 1: catch on balance. You know when you get in the lane,

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Speaker 1: you're playing off two ft you know. Um, And I

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Speaker 1: mean some of the stuff is so bizarre. You have

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Speaker 1: guys doing that. I don't. I don't, I don't. And

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Speaker 1: the Instagram makes it worse, you know, right because you

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Speaker 1: have these guys that that you know, like I'm watching it.

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Speaker 1: I'm probably watching with you cringing inside. Like you'll have

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Speaker 1: kids following thinking like this is how it's supposed to look,

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Speaker 1: you know, when that's not Like, first of all, basketball

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Speaker 1: ncent of time to play without the ball, none of

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Speaker 1: that is, none of that is taught. And then with

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Speaker 1: the basketball, like it's just too much that the I

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Speaker 1: have kids that are really talented that you get to

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Speaker 1: where they were the workout guy, and it takes you

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Speaker 1: half of the tournament to get them to stop dribbling

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Speaker 1: so much because everything has to be you know, fifteen

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Speaker 1: different moves. Doug. I tech this summer, especially in the spring.

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Speaker 1: I've got a new thing that I've talked to players

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Speaker 1: about it that looks including me. If anyone ever tries

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Speaker 1: to teach you anything, you ask two questions, and if

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Speaker 1: they can't answer these two questions, walk the funk religion,

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Speaker 1: how when am I going to do this in a game?

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Speaker 1: And how is the defender if it's an offensive drill

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Speaker 1: or offensive how is the offensive player going to react

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Speaker 1: to this? So then I have a counter to it.

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Speaker 1: If they can't answer those two questions like that, to

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Speaker 1: walk the funk out of the gym, because that guy

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Speaker 1: or girl that's working well is completely full of ship

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Speaker 1: and they don't know what they're doing. Yeah, right, right,

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Speaker 1: But it's like, uh, you know, I mean and and

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Speaker 1: again I want to get into the Steff Curry think

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Speaker 1: his stepf is he has I think this is me personally.

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Speaker 1: I think there's parts of the game that he's expanded

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Speaker 1: that are really good. For it, um, But I don't

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Speaker 1: necessarily believe that many people who talk about it on

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Speaker 1: TV or radio have any idea of the things that

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Speaker 1: he does that are different. They just think he shoots

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Speaker 1: deep threes, and that's what makes him different. To me.

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Speaker 1: I was always taught to never shoot off across over

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Speaker 1: a score when you switch hands ever right, it's too

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Speaker 1: hard in terms of bounds right. But he's kind of

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Speaker 1: figured it out, um, And there's some parts to it,

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Speaker 1: and I think Damian Lillard as well, because I think

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Speaker 1: Phil does a good job well where the side step

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Speaker 1: where you pound it and you and you're able to

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Speaker 1: get balanced, and what that's done is you know back

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Speaker 1: when again you're talking about these days in the nineties,

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Speaker 1: the step back was the Kiki moves right. It was

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Speaker 1: a key right, so if you're right, you could right handed.

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Speaker 1: It was really hard to do it going right. It

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Speaker 1: was easy to do it going left right. And so

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Speaker 1: what what Damian has do, what Lillard has done and

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Speaker 1: through Phil, is that hardible to your right and it's

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Speaker 1: like and you can do it off the dribble as well,

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Speaker 1: where it's like it's a side step instead of a

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Speaker 1: step back. But it's the ability to still have that

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Speaker 1: balance even going to your your strong hand. So I

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Speaker 1: think there's part of the expansion of the game which

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Speaker 1: is really really good. Um and you know the new

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Speaker 1: kind of extra step that guy you're getting as they

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Speaker 1: gather on that step back or Lucas step back, which

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Speaker 1: is different. Like all of those things are good. It's

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Speaker 1: the way in which we're teaching kids that everything is

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Speaker 1: everything is downhill, everything is with the ball, and everything,

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Speaker 1: by my estimation, is way way too many moves which

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Speaker 1: you can't actually shoot off if and shoot a good

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Speaker 1: percentage of no. And I think that everyone sort of

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Speaker 1: has to take a breath on this, and look, they

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Speaker 1: won't because it's and I'll get back to this, but like,

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Speaker 1: if you watch the NBA playoffs, which in my opinion

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Speaker 1: is the best basketball ever to watch, not during the

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Speaker 1: regular season, but the playoffs, and just watch the shots

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Speaker 1: that players get at your position, and watch what pay

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Speaker 1: attention to, what you work on, and say, wait a minute,

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Speaker 1: does this add up? Because most of the game on

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Speaker 1: on the wing and perimeters catching shoot. Then it's the

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Speaker 1: straight line drive finished, Then it's the one and two

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Speaker 1: drip pull up, then it's the pick and roll read

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Speaker 1: then it's the coming off pin down, like the isolation

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Speaker 1: part of it. And what when I would work with

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Speaker 1: Kobe and I work with every game Abali from the

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Speaker 1: w n B A like when I advise and I

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Speaker 1: talked to these players that are really good, I'm like,

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Speaker 1: look in the flow of the game with a shot

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Speaker 1: clock from twenty four to eight, try to get as

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Speaker 1: many uncontested marginally contested shots that you can get great

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Speaker 1: shots on seven and under use your gut. If you

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Speaker 1: want to go into your bag of tricks, go right ahead.

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Speaker 1: It's probably gonna be a bad shot. Most of the

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Speaker 1: shots are gonna be tough shots under seven shot clock.

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Speaker 1: That's what you're gonna get, and that's okay. But when

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Speaker 1: we're teaching this is all the game is, You're You're

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Speaker 1: absolutely wrong. It's not. It's very basic. In these trainers

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Speaker 1: and these you know, not all of them are bad.

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Speaker 1: Obviously we talked about that, But when you're only teaching that,

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Speaker 1: when I've seen these workouts, I've been in California for

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Speaker 1: three months. I just got back and I watched these

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Speaker 1: workouts that are ninety minutes to a hundred and twenty

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Speaker 1: minutes of like last second shot attempts and that's all

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Speaker 1: your teach and it's a problem. And the other problem

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Speaker 1: with that is if you're going to teach the isolation stuff,

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Speaker 1: don't just say this move is the best move ever, right,

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Speaker 1: and then you get off that move the next day

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Speaker 1: and you teach another move like that. You've gotta build

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Speaker 1: on something or move one move down to day, move

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Speaker 1: counter move, and worked on it every day. Those two things. Yes,

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Speaker 1: Fox Sports Radio has the best sports talk lineup in

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Speaker 1: the nation. Catch all of our shows at Fox sports

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Speaker 1: Radio dot com and within the I Heart Radio app

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Speaker 1: search f s R to listen live. So yeah, so

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Speaker 1: I've you know, it's it's interesting that you took notes

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Speaker 1: and you put things together from different people because, uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, to me, it's a lot of been trial

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Speaker 1: and error. And in watching the playoffs, one of the

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Speaker 1: things that that I believe is that the Warriors, the

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Speaker 1: way they play with off ball movement kind of a

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Speaker 1: but kind of almost a new way of a throwback

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Speaker 1: to sort of blocker mover right where you have designated

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Speaker 1: screeners and designated moors. I think I think that's it

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Speaker 1: will still be effective at times in college, but I

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Speaker 1: don't think we'll ever see that in the NBA ever again.

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Speaker 1: And my this hypotheses not a theory, Okay, the hypotheses

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Speaker 1: is this, you have two unique stars in Clay and Steph. Okay,

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Speaker 1: they're raised by NBA guys, So they were guys that

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Speaker 1: were around the game back when it was played more

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Speaker 1: this way. So they were taught at a very early

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Speaker 1: age about off the ball movement. Additionally, they played in

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Speaker 1: college for two master coaches of motion offenses, and they

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Speaker 1: played for that school for three years each. Right, so

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Speaker 1: you have the teaching coming up, the teaching in college,

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Speaker 1: and neither are spectacular athletes. So in order to get space,

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Speaker 1: in order to catch and shoot, you have to be

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Speaker 1: able to It's almost you know what is it? Uh uh?

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Speaker 1: Necessity is the root of all invention, right right right?

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Speaker 1: So like, look, Clay, Clay wasn't like Clay. Here's here's

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Speaker 1: Clay's real background. He played for my dad, and then

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Speaker 1: the summer he played, and then in the summer of

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Speaker 1: the big tournaments, he'd leave. He played for the pups

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Speaker 1: and he'd get really frustrated and power and so Clay

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Speaker 1: had a reputation of being a powder nobody. Nobody wanted

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Speaker 1: him because he was soft, he was powder. Well really

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Speaker 1: it was is like, here's a guy who can't play

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Speaker 1: with the ball in his hands going one on one

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Speaker 1: to shoot. He's got to play off of movement. And

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Speaker 1: yet the bigger teams he played is just five out

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Speaker 1: high ball screen and go. He didn't fit him and

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Speaker 1: he wouldn't get shots. And you get really really frustrated. Right,

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Speaker 1: So you have these two guys and then you factor

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Speaker 1: in their their mentality and personality is not like most

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Speaker 1: guys that are stars. They actually root for each other,

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Speaker 1: cheer for each other, don't mind. And then you have

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Speaker 1: a coach and Steve Kirk who also came from that

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Speaker 1: same mindset going back to the days at Arizona, and

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Speaker 1: and a guy who needed a screen or needed a

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Speaker 1: play off of Michael Jordan in order to or Tim

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Speaker 1: Duncan order to get shot. So he understood it as

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Speaker 1: well and put them in a system that all kind

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Speaker 1: of works together. I don't think you're gonna see that anymore.

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Speaker 1: And I look, you work with these guys, but the

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Speaker 1: Tatums of the world, the Jayleen Browns of the world,

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Speaker 1: that's what this generation all looks like. They're all from you. Know,

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Speaker 1: six to six, three to six seven and six eight.

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Speaker 1: But they're all brought up in have the ball in

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Speaker 1: your hands, we're gonna play downhill or going to get

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Speaker 1: you into ball screen and playoff action and then shooters.

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Speaker 1: All they do is exchange on the weak side. Right,

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Speaker 1: You're just just finding ways to space. You're not really

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Speaker 1: reading a screen. You're not curling, you're not back cutting,

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Speaker 1: you're not flaring unless it's a design set. But that

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Speaker 1: that tells you to do it. But really it comes

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Speaker 1: down to end of the day, we want you somebody

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Speaker 1: coming off a downhill ball screen. Right. So I really

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Speaker 1: feel like this is the last we'll see of it,

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Speaker 1: even Luca, like Lucas unbelievable, but all of the ball

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Speaker 1: in his hands, right, So will we In your mind,

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Speaker 1: do you think it's the last of this sort of

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Speaker 1: style of basketball or will it soon be replicated because

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Speaker 1: people see its success. Well, I think, just like any

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Speaker 1: other any other thing in basketball, if you're a competitor.

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Speaker 1: You know, Luca is probably the most competitive guy besides

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Speaker 1: Steph that's in the top five to ten players in

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Speaker 1: the league. I think what happens is that if you

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Speaker 1: if a competitor, because being with Kobe as much as

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Speaker 1: I was just being able to learn from him. When

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Speaker 1: a competitor sees something in their way from success, if

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Speaker 1: they can't get to the next level of winning, especially

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Speaker 1: that Luca is all about winning and steps all about winning,

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Speaker 1: when they see a roadblock and they say, well, I'm

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Speaker 1: playing this way, but there's a roadblock with it. I

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Speaker 1: gotta expand my game and i gotta change and I've

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Speaker 1: got it. Yes, I understand that. But but like you know,

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Speaker 1: hard is for guys to play with ball in her hands,

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Speaker 1: to play it out the ball in their hands, no

426
00:23:10,840 --> 00:23:13,920
Speaker 1: doubt about it, no doubt about it. Because but that's

427
00:23:13,920 --> 00:23:15,960
Speaker 1: the only way that I'm not saying it's gonna happen,

428
00:23:16,200 --> 00:23:19,480
Speaker 1: but that's the only way. Like if if Luca knows

429
00:23:19,520 --> 00:23:21,800
Speaker 1: that he can't win a championship play in a certain

430
00:23:21,840 --> 00:23:26,640
Speaker 1: style that he plays, I'm gonna gamble that he's probably

431
00:23:26,680 --> 00:23:29,320
Speaker 1: gonna fight it, but he might. Now that's the only

432
00:23:29,320 --> 00:23:31,160
Speaker 1: way it's gonna change the game. Dog, I'll tell you why,

433
00:23:31,320 --> 00:23:33,920
Speaker 1: Because Luca Steph is not on his way out, but

434
00:23:34,000 --> 00:23:36,720
Speaker 1: steps on the decline in a sense, in a sense

435
00:23:37,000 --> 00:23:39,359
Speaker 1: on a decline where like he's like he hoped played

436
00:23:39,400 --> 00:23:42,760
Speaker 1: for five six more years. Maybe maybe not Lucas that

437
00:23:43,000 --> 00:23:46,560
Speaker 1: sort of next upcoming star, be honest, next and upcoming star,

438
00:23:46,720 --> 00:23:50,320
Speaker 1: which they already start. And if they see those guys,

439
00:23:50,359 --> 00:23:54,320
Speaker 1: because everybody emulates starts, nobody wants to emulate. Nobody wants

440
00:23:54,320 --> 00:23:56,879
Speaker 1: to be Hersy Hawkins anymore. Nobody wants to be the

441
00:23:57,000 --> 00:23:59,960
Speaker 1: role player that he's my favorite, He's my favorite NBA

442
00:24:00,000 --> 00:24:03,720
Speaker 1: player of all time. I love her I love Hercy

443
00:24:04,240 --> 00:24:08,440
Speaker 1: and was amazing, Yeah, no question. And nobody wants to

444
00:24:08,480 --> 00:24:10,679
Speaker 1: be that guy anymore because if that guy could make

445
00:24:10,680 --> 00:24:13,440
Speaker 1: a hundred, that guy, Hersy Hawkins can make a hundred

446
00:24:13,480 --> 00:24:15,720
Speaker 1: and eighty five million dollars in his career now by

447
00:24:15,760 --> 00:24:19,040
Speaker 1: just doing those things. Everybody wants to emulate stars. Now

448
00:24:19,160 --> 00:24:22,760
Speaker 1: stars emulating stars, that's fine, But when you get role players,

449
00:24:22,760 --> 00:24:26,200
Speaker 1: emulating stars could be a problem because they can't live

450
00:24:26,240 --> 00:24:28,359
Speaker 1: their life like that. As far as on the court,

451
00:24:28,400 --> 00:24:31,200
Speaker 1: they can't live a steady diet of tough shots. If

452
00:24:31,200 --> 00:24:35,200
Speaker 1: you get all these stars playing a different type of way,

453
00:24:35,680 --> 00:24:38,040
Speaker 1: then you might see a shift. That's the only way

454
00:24:38,040 --> 00:24:41,720
Speaker 1: it's gonna happen. And I mean, who who doesn't play

455
00:24:41,720 --> 00:24:44,919
Speaker 1: with Yannis plays a little bit without the ball. Luca

456
00:24:45,000 --> 00:24:47,600
Speaker 1: needs the ball. You know, Steph needs the ball, like

457
00:24:47,880 --> 00:24:50,160
Speaker 1: Steph actually doesn't need the ball, but like all these

458
00:24:50,160 --> 00:24:52,600
Speaker 1: players need the ball in their hand, Jason Tatum needs

459
00:24:52,600 --> 00:24:54,960
Speaker 1: the ball in his hand. But I think Jason is

460
00:24:55,000 --> 00:24:57,560
Speaker 1: going to find out he cannot win playing the way

461
00:24:57,680 --> 00:25:01,119
Speaker 1: he plays for forty minutes of nine. He can play

462
00:25:01,160 --> 00:25:03,760
Speaker 1: that way and win and be really good twenty six

463
00:25:03,760 --> 00:25:05,760
Speaker 1: of those minutes, but he's got to be able to

464
00:25:05,760 --> 00:25:08,480
Speaker 1: play off the ball, and he's got to be able

465
00:25:08,520 --> 00:25:10,760
Speaker 1: to emulate that a little bit and add that to

466
00:25:10,840 --> 00:25:14,800
Speaker 1: his game as as well as the defensive package, or

467
00:25:14,840 --> 00:25:17,600
Speaker 1: he's not gonna He's not gonna win. Okay, So let's

468
00:25:17,720 --> 00:25:22,480
Speaker 1: you start with Hoppla yea, who the other who? The

469
00:25:22,560 --> 00:25:26,520
Speaker 1: other two herbs and takes Okay, well, so takes lock

470
00:25:26,680 --> 00:25:30,840
Speaker 1: and herb livesey I met. I was a camper at

471
00:25:31,040 --> 00:25:35,880
Speaker 1: camp called snow Valley Valley Barbara would still exists. They don't.

472
00:25:36,080 --> 00:25:38,160
Speaker 1: They don't run it anymore, but the one that I

473
00:25:38,280 --> 00:25:42,600
Speaker 1: was very well done, but but it's it still exists.

474
00:25:42,600 --> 00:25:45,760
Speaker 1: But Snow Valley was the first day and a half

475
00:25:45,760 --> 00:25:49,080
Speaker 1: you had no basketball, no basketball. I sent my I

476
00:25:49,119 --> 00:25:53,119
Speaker 1: sent my a you kids there like they're all like

477
00:25:53,720 --> 00:25:59,639
Speaker 1: to get you out of here. Yeah yeah, um, but

478
00:25:59,680 --> 00:26:01,840
Speaker 1: it's like best thing for and I'll be honest, like

479
00:26:01,840 --> 00:26:04,000
Speaker 1: there was that parts of it I didn't like. I

480
00:26:04,040 --> 00:26:06,480
Speaker 1: love mean, but I love cutthroat and things like that.

481
00:26:07,040 --> 00:26:12,200
Speaker 1: Tates Lock was a master coach who really Bob Knight

482
00:26:12,440 --> 00:26:16,160
Speaker 1: actually learned from, right, That's how he hired Bob Knight.

483
00:26:16,520 --> 00:26:20,600
Speaker 1: That's how well respected takes Taste Taste Lock was. And

484
00:26:20,800 --> 00:26:23,000
Speaker 1: for people who don't know, he wrote a famous book

485
00:26:23,119 --> 00:26:26,639
Speaker 1: about his time a head coach at Clemson and about

486
00:26:26,640 --> 00:26:28,800
Speaker 1: all the cheating they were doing. It was like a

487
00:26:29,359 --> 00:26:33,080
Speaker 1: come clean book. He became on a hirable because still

488
00:26:33,160 --> 00:26:37,680
Speaker 1: the truth. Right. So um, what you learned from Tastes

489
00:26:37,760 --> 00:26:43,120
Speaker 1: Lock how to talk to players the presence of just

490
00:26:43,320 --> 00:26:46,479
Speaker 1: like yeah, he was fiery and he was a Bobby

491
00:26:46,560 --> 00:26:51,600
Speaker 1: Knight type of yeller, but he could comment, he could talk,

492
00:26:51,760 --> 00:26:55,040
Speaker 1: and he could teach what simplicity and you look him

493
00:26:55,080 --> 00:26:57,639
Speaker 1: in the eyes. He was like with James Cohn in

494
00:26:57,680 --> 00:27:00,480
Speaker 1: that movie with um Tom Cruise when he was the

495
00:27:00,880 --> 00:27:03,080
Speaker 1: when he was the race car driver and the indie

496
00:27:03,119 --> 00:27:09,960
Speaker 1: car driver and uh something that thunder like like that

497
00:27:10,160 --> 00:27:17,720
Speaker 1: calming like West Virginian sort of drink was up. That

498
00:27:17,800 --> 00:27:24,880
Speaker 1: wasn't James conn that movie? Uh he again, Robert. Yeah,

499
00:27:25,119 --> 00:27:27,720
Speaker 1: So he's like, I'm sorry, my bad, my bad, Robert

500
00:27:27,760 --> 00:27:31,639
Speaker 1: Duval And like how he was like he could be fiery,

501
00:27:31,840 --> 00:27:33,919
Speaker 1: but he can look you in the eye and just

502
00:27:34,000 --> 00:27:36,000
Speaker 1: see three you, and he could talk to you and

503
00:27:36,040 --> 00:27:38,640
Speaker 1: he could relate, and he could just sort of give

504
00:27:38,720 --> 00:27:42,520
Speaker 1: you that twenty second sound bite that would change your

505
00:27:42,840 --> 00:27:45,520
Speaker 1: change your whole approach to what you were doing at

506
00:27:45,560 --> 00:27:49,399
Speaker 1: that time. And he could really teach and he was

507
00:27:49,480 --> 00:27:52,560
Speaker 1: simple and he was simplistic, and but he could get

508
00:27:52,560 --> 00:27:55,080
Speaker 1: on your ass. And like we had all these all

509
00:27:55,119 --> 00:27:58,040
Speaker 1: American college kids that were like look Doug like in

510
00:27:58,119 --> 00:28:00,840
Speaker 1: those camps and the Nike American you had like a

511
00:28:00,920 --> 00:28:04,120
Speaker 1: hundred and eighty really high major high school kids then

512
00:28:04,400 --> 00:28:09,200
Speaker 1: they were then they had these fifty forty college players

513
00:28:09,520 --> 00:28:12,080
Speaker 1: that would be doing these drill stations, Like while the

514
00:28:12,160 --> 00:28:14,920
Speaker 1: kids were at class or the kids were at lunch,

515
00:28:15,160 --> 00:28:17,159
Speaker 1: these guys would be working out. It was like I

516
00:28:17,200 --> 00:28:19,840
Speaker 1: told you, Tim Duncan, Vince Carter, we had a mecoca

517
00:28:19,920 --> 00:28:22,280
Speaker 1: for Luke rid Now Luke checks and I mean you

518
00:28:22,400 --> 00:28:24,680
Speaker 1: Nade David West you name the guys that we had

519
00:28:24,720 --> 00:28:28,159
Speaker 1: it and and we would just be working these guys

520
00:28:28,200 --> 00:28:33,480
Speaker 1: out individually and then game break, like stopping games, teaching

521
00:28:33,680 --> 00:28:37,600
Speaker 1: correct and it was like USA Basketball trials in the eighties.

522
00:28:37,720 --> 00:28:41,320
Speaker 1: Like but all these guys like they had very little ego.

523
00:28:41,480 --> 00:28:43,800
Speaker 1: If they did, they would send them home. It wasn't

524
00:28:44,160 --> 00:28:47,200
Speaker 1: It isn't wasn't like now where it's all player empowerment

525
00:28:47,480 --> 00:28:50,840
Speaker 1: and you have to just have gloves off. It's honestly,

526
00:28:50,840 --> 00:28:54,640
Speaker 1: it's amazing. So um, here's here's let me back you

527
00:28:54,720 --> 00:28:59,480
Speaker 1: up with the story, please do so. I think it

528
00:28:59,640 --> 00:29:02,920
Speaker 1: was five, maybe it was ninety six. I think it was.

529
00:29:03,840 --> 00:29:07,920
Speaker 1: I got invited to the was at the under eighteen

530
00:29:09,040 --> 00:29:12,640
Speaker 1: national trials, right, and so I go to Colorado Springs

531
00:29:12,960 --> 00:29:18,200
Speaker 1: and Tim Duncan was there, and he was freshman or sophomore,

532
00:29:18,240 --> 00:29:22,520
Speaker 1: but he was he was young, so he was only

533
00:29:22,560 --> 00:29:24,760
Speaker 1: like eighteen as a freshman or whatever, so he could

534
00:29:24,760 --> 00:29:27,360
Speaker 1: have played on the under eighteen they had playing with

535
00:29:27,400 --> 00:29:29,640
Speaker 1: the twenty ones. But it was, it was. It was

536
00:29:29,680 --> 00:29:32,160
Speaker 1: intermingled with all the drills and then when you get

537
00:29:32,160 --> 00:29:35,440
Speaker 1: to playing, they break you into into two groups. And

538
00:29:35,520 --> 00:29:40,800
Speaker 1: I remember, like, um, I think it was Albert White

539
00:29:41,280 --> 00:29:46,840
Speaker 1: and the late Tractor Trailer and who I when I

540
00:29:47,040 --> 00:29:50,440
Speaker 1: played against Tractor Trailer at a B C. D. And

541
00:29:51,640 --> 00:29:55,960
Speaker 1: he had an incredible personality. He was like the greatest dude.

542
00:29:56,000 --> 00:29:58,960
Speaker 1: And I had never I'd never seen somebody like that

543
00:29:59,040 --> 00:30:01,160
Speaker 1: like I'd seen I grew up. My dad always got

544
00:30:01,200 --> 00:30:03,680
Speaker 1: great players to play with on our on our teams.

545
00:30:04,120 --> 00:30:06,320
Speaker 1: But I've never seen a dude who was like six

546
00:30:06,360 --> 00:30:10,479
Speaker 1: five six six three pounds that could just explode. And

547
00:30:10,480 --> 00:30:12,920
Speaker 1: and Duncan he was kind of Zion before Zion a

548
00:30:12,960 --> 00:30:16,920
Speaker 1: little bit, maybe not as explosive. Um. But they showed

549
00:30:16,960 --> 00:30:20,880
Speaker 1: up late, like the second day to a workout, and

550
00:30:20,880 --> 00:30:23,120
Speaker 1: I think they had I think they got cut drinking

551
00:30:23,200 --> 00:30:25,200
Speaker 1: or something loud. It was just something very very minor.

552
00:30:26,160 --> 00:30:27,959
Speaker 1: But like I remember, like all of a sudden they

553
00:30:27,960 --> 00:30:30,800
Speaker 1: were late and then they were gone, and I was like,

554
00:30:30,840 --> 00:30:34,560
Speaker 1: what happened that? They said him home? And no one

555
00:30:34,640 --> 00:30:37,920
Speaker 1: does that anymore, No one knowing gets sent home anymore,

556
00:30:38,280 --> 00:30:46,000
Speaker 1: nobody anymore. And yeah, and there was also um there

557
00:30:46,080 --> 00:30:50,240
Speaker 1: was also uh no like handlers there. It was just

558
00:30:50,360 --> 00:30:52,920
Speaker 1: the USA, you know, It's just the George Ravley to

559
00:30:53,040 --> 00:30:57,320
Speaker 1: John Thompson's the Mishazewski is just the coaches, the USA

560
00:30:57,400 --> 00:31:01,320
Speaker 1: Basketball personnel and nothing else, no idiot, no, nothing else.

561
00:31:01,880 --> 00:31:04,880
Speaker 1: And it was it was amazing. And then you kind

562
00:31:04,920 --> 00:31:08,800
Speaker 1: of fast forward to now. And I love when anybody

563
00:31:08,840 --> 00:31:11,680
Speaker 1: asked me, Dinos tragonis last. We do pangos sometimes I'll

564
00:31:11,720 --> 00:31:15,680
Speaker 1: coach that whatever, But it's just the like, it's different,

565
00:31:16,160 --> 00:31:20,160
Speaker 1: it's so different, and we're creating an environment where this

566
00:31:20,240 --> 00:31:22,800
Speaker 1: is the normal for kids, and it's really on us

567
00:31:22,800 --> 00:31:26,120
Speaker 1: because we won't put our foot down. We won't you know,

568
00:31:26,840 --> 00:31:29,960
Speaker 1: charge your parents, we won't tell somebody, Hey, you just

569
00:31:29,960 --> 00:31:32,320
Speaker 1: gotta send a kid or maybe a parent or guardian

570
00:31:32,680 --> 00:31:35,040
Speaker 1: and that's it. You can't send handler and they can't

571
00:31:35,040 --> 00:31:40,520
Speaker 1: have six kids or anyway. Okay, So so how did

572
00:31:40,520 --> 00:31:45,760
Speaker 1: you come to meet Kobe? Had had the Kobe intersection happened? Okay,

573
00:31:45,800 --> 00:31:50,720
Speaker 1: so not forward to and you don't give a bunch

574
00:31:50,800 --> 00:31:52,480
Speaker 1: because if it's a long story, that's the idea of

575
00:31:52,520 --> 00:31:58,440
Speaker 1: a pot Yeah yeah, no, no, no, that's great. So um,

576
00:31:58,480 --> 00:32:01,040
Speaker 1: like Leo p Appeal was my guy, like Leopen Pale

577
00:32:01,080 --> 00:32:04,400
Speaker 1: still is today. Like I emulate a lot of what

578
00:32:04,480 --> 00:32:06,960
Speaker 1: he does. I love the way he speaks to kids.

579
00:32:07,160 --> 00:32:09,480
Speaker 1: I love the fact that there's no he hasn't pulled

580
00:32:09,520 --> 00:32:13,120
Speaker 1: any punches, and so he gets hired by Petito. And

581
00:32:13,200 --> 00:32:15,840
Speaker 1: I'm a senior at Suffolk University, I was a manager.

582
00:32:15,840 --> 00:32:18,320
Speaker 1: I was a high school coach as a Division three

583
00:32:18,360 --> 00:32:21,960
Speaker 1: school in Boston. And Rick gets hired and basically he

584
00:32:22,040 --> 00:32:25,520
Speaker 1: hires Leo as his head scout. Leo worked with Rick

585
00:32:25,680 --> 00:32:29,560
Speaker 1: at BU. You know, and I think Rick Pettino side story,

586
00:32:29,600 --> 00:32:31,480
Speaker 1: I think Rick Pettino is the one of the best

587
00:32:31,480 --> 00:32:33,960
Speaker 1: coaches of all time. What if I told you? What

588
00:32:34,000 --> 00:32:36,440
Speaker 1: if I told you this? Okay, this is my Ripettino thing.

589
00:32:37,560 --> 00:32:40,120
Speaker 1: I think he's the greatest modern day basketball coach through

590
00:32:40,160 --> 00:32:43,040
Speaker 1: there you go, that's that's what I. Okay, well you

591
00:32:43,120 --> 00:32:44,600
Speaker 1: kind of saw. So you think I think he's one

592
00:32:44,600 --> 00:32:45,880
Speaker 1: of Well I did because I didn't want to. I

593
00:32:45,920 --> 00:32:47,760
Speaker 1: don't want to have have this fucking back and forth about it.

594
00:32:47,800 --> 00:32:49,800
Speaker 1: But yeah, I think go back and forth about that's

595
00:32:49,800 --> 00:32:52,200
Speaker 1: the goods. Well people do. That's a good point. We

596
00:32:52,200 --> 00:32:53,720
Speaker 1: don't do. All we don't do is we don't do

597
00:32:53,760 --> 00:32:58,200
Speaker 1: the like, oh he's sixth on the list. That's bullshit.

598
00:32:58,280 --> 00:33:00,720
Speaker 1: So that here's here's my thing with with the team.

599
00:33:00,840 --> 00:33:04,080
Speaker 1: And I'll tell you. Okay. He was ahead on conditioning

600
00:33:04,200 --> 00:33:07,840
Speaker 1: way before anybody else. Okay, right, Like he was a

601
00:33:07,880 --> 00:33:10,680
Speaker 1: fanatic about it and honestly, like if I look back,

602
00:33:11,040 --> 00:33:13,560
Speaker 1: like what he did with Billy Donovan, having him lose

603
00:33:13,600 --> 00:33:17,040
Speaker 1: all that weight and running the piss out of those dudes,

604
00:33:17,120 --> 00:33:20,480
Speaker 1: Like I played like one eight, four to one and

605
00:33:20,600 --> 00:33:22,680
Speaker 1: the seven in college, I was I was too strong.

606
00:33:23,040 --> 00:33:25,400
Speaker 1: I should have been playing in the one seventies. And

607
00:33:25,880 --> 00:33:27,360
Speaker 1: you know I moved well, I would move better. But

608
00:33:27,360 --> 00:33:28,960
Speaker 1: he was a head on can He was the first

609
00:33:29,080 --> 00:33:32,440
Speaker 1: unite conditioning. Okay, he was the first to have really

610
00:33:32,440 --> 00:33:36,120
Speaker 1: embraced the three point shot for anybody else, he wasn't

611
00:33:36,120 --> 00:33:39,360
Speaker 1: one who understood the math to it, understood the value

612
00:33:39,360 --> 00:33:42,200
Speaker 1: to it, also understood on some level small ball, right

613
00:33:42,320 --> 00:33:47,120
Speaker 1: and that they played smaller that than other guys. Um

614
00:33:47,160 --> 00:33:51,080
Speaker 1: the pressure defense, Like did it ultimately work at with

615
00:33:51,120 --> 00:33:55,520
Speaker 1: the Knicks? Yes and no, Like considering his roster, it

616
00:33:55,720 --> 00:33:58,680
Speaker 1: really worked. I don't know if it works, you know,

617
00:33:58,760 --> 00:34:01,280
Speaker 1: at the top of the NBA over over, you know,

618
00:34:01,400 --> 00:34:03,840
Speaker 1: in the in the NBA playoffs, if those bodies get

619
00:34:04,280 --> 00:34:07,960
Speaker 1: But it obviously worked in college and dominated. Um, he

620
00:34:08,040 --> 00:34:10,880
Speaker 1: was ahead of the game and tanking right when he

621
00:34:10,960 --> 00:34:12,960
Speaker 1: was in Boston and they tanked and they had those

622
00:34:12,960 --> 00:34:16,960
Speaker 1: two picks, they didn't get Tim Duncan right forever changed history. Well,

623
00:34:16,960 --> 00:34:20,000
Speaker 1: he got hired. He got hired after the tanking. AML

624
00:34:20,080 --> 00:34:22,759
Speaker 1: Carr actually have to give credit for that tanking. They

625
00:34:22,840 --> 00:34:25,880
Speaker 1: know that. I did not know that. I know that.

626
00:34:26,560 --> 00:34:31,120
Speaker 1: Um uh and and he but he's been ahead of

627
00:34:31,160 --> 00:34:36,680
Speaker 1: the game on scouting. Um. He also he changed offensively

628
00:34:36,719 --> 00:34:39,880
Speaker 1: Channe when he was at Kentucky and they want his

629
00:34:39,920 --> 00:34:42,120
Speaker 1: back to back titles. They were running a version of

630
00:34:42,160 --> 00:34:45,560
Speaker 1: Carolina Shuffle right, and then he changed and he ran

631
00:34:45,680 --> 00:34:49,160
Speaker 1: at Louisville, he ran some pistol um. So the point

632
00:34:49,239 --> 00:34:51,200
Speaker 1: is like a lot of these things that people are

633
00:34:51,320 --> 00:34:54,680
Speaker 1: doing are all portions of what he did. Plus he's

634
00:34:54,719 --> 00:35:00,440
Speaker 1: a masterful game coach and and and understanding the actually

635
00:35:00,480 --> 00:35:04,040
Speaker 1: watching the game. Whereas I will, without naming names, I'll

636
00:35:04,080 --> 00:35:08,040
Speaker 1: be critical of some college coaches where they just do

637
00:35:08,120 --> 00:35:11,880
Speaker 1: what they do and if you question it, they say,

638
00:35:12,120 --> 00:35:15,680
Speaker 1: this is what I've always done. It always works. If

639
00:35:15,719 --> 00:35:18,759
Speaker 1: it doesn't work, it's because you're not doing what we're

640
00:35:18,800 --> 00:35:23,200
Speaker 1: supposed to be doing, right, which I get. But there's

641
00:35:23,239 --> 00:35:27,239
Speaker 1: also you have to have played and have feel and

642
00:35:27,360 --> 00:35:31,800
Speaker 1: his he has incredible feel for the game. Um so

643
00:35:32,200 --> 00:35:36,840
Speaker 1: you know his matchup zone was was spectacular and he's

644
00:35:37,200 --> 00:35:41,440
Speaker 1: literally one everywhere. They even win big with the Celtics. Okay,

645
00:35:41,520 --> 00:35:47,879
Speaker 1: but Providence final four, Kentucky, that thing would they would

646
00:35:47,880 --> 00:35:50,239
Speaker 1: have won more games than than anybody. Hell, he won

647
00:35:50,320 --> 00:35:53,279
Speaker 1: national championship at Louisville. That was not easy. They did

648
00:35:53,280 --> 00:35:57,520
Speaker 1: it one in Greece. They one everywhere, So what else

649
00:35:57,520 --> 00:36:02,000
Speaker 1: am I missing? That's what he does, like like take no,

650
00:36:02,000 --> 00:36:06,719
Speaker 1: no disrespect to Mike Sachowski and stuff like Mike, I

651
00:36:06,719 --> 00:36:09,640
Speaker 1: would like again to get I'll get ok on it.

652
00:36:09,680 --> 00:36:12,479
Speaker 1: But like no, he goes he's not. You know, he's

653
00:36:12,560 --> 00:36:17,680
Speaker 1: one everywhere. He's been at fucking ship places. BU he

654
00:36:17,719 --> 00:36:20,880
Speaker 1: wins twenty games more than twice. He wins nineteen Like

655
00:36:21,120 --> 00:36:23,120
Speaker 1: BU was one of the worst programs in the country.

656
00:36:23,600 --> 00:36:26,359
Speaker 1: Then he goes to Yeah, they went to they went

657
00:36:26,400 --> 00:36:30,200
Speaker 1: to the anyways, go ahead, yeah, and then he goes

658
00:36:30,239 --> 00:36:32,800
Speaker 1: to the Knicks as an assistant. He comes back to Providence,

659
00:36:32,840 --> 00:36:35,359
Speaker 1: which is the worst program in the Big East, goes

660
00:36:35,400 --> 00:36:37,799
Speaker 1: to a final four. But wait, he didn't just go

661
00:36:37,920 --> 00:36:41,399
Speaker 1: to Providence. That was when the Big East had eight teams, right,

662
00:36:42,000 --> 00:36:44,959
Speaker 1: and the league had put three teams in the Final four.

663
00:36:45,400 --> 00:36:47,520
Speaker 1: So it's not just you're taking over the worst job

664
00:36:47,520 --> 00:36:49,399
Speaker 1: in the league. Yeah, you're taken over the worst job

665
00:36:49,640 --> 00:36:51,640
Speaker 1: in the best conference in the country, and obviously the

666
00:36:51,640 --> 00:36:54,439
Speaker 1: best conference in the country it only has eight teams. Yes,

667
00:36:55,239 --> 00:36:58,399
Speaker 1: and he goes to Final four in two years. I mean,

668
00:36:58,680 --> 00:37:00,839
Speaker 1: and he too, like Jake Took it was also took.

669
00:37:01,120 --> 00:37:06,239
Speaker 1: Also transfers. Yeah, the transfers for everyone else. Fucking I mean,

670
00:37:06,360 --> 00:37:08,759
Speaker 1: takes those guys Final four and then he goes to

671
00:37:08,800 --> 00:37:12,160
Speaker 1: the Knicks, does well with the Knicks, elevates them, goes

672
00:37:12,200 --> 00:37:14,719
Speaker 1: to Kentucky. Now it's Kentucky, but they were on the

673
00:37:14,800 --> 00:37:17,640
Speaker 1: death penalty when he took him fucking takes them to

674
00:37:17,719 --> 00:37:20,560
Speaker 1: New Heights. Then he goes to the Celtics, and he

675
00:37:20,640 --> 00:37:24,000
Speaker 1: should have never been a GM. Should have definitely coached.

676
00:37:24,000 --> 00:37:25,800
Speaker 1: I think he would have been fine. He probably shouldn't

677
00:37:25,840 --> 00:37:28,719
Speaker 1: have gone to Kentucky, I mean to the Celtics, but

678
00:37:29,120 --> 00:37:33,040
Speaker 1: he goes and look, they were competitive his first year

679
00:37:33,080 --> 00:37:35,719
Speaker 1: and then they fell off. I think. Yeah, the style.

680
00:37:35,760 --> 00:37:38,879
Speaker 1: When did when did Reggie Lewis died? Reggie Willis died?

681
00:37:39,120 --> 00:37:43,480
Speaker 1: I think like nine four, So that was that was

682
00:37:43,520 --> 00:37:47,000
Speaker 1: three years removed. Now, mL car did two great things

683
00:37:47,040 --> 00:37:49,600
Speaker 1: when he was in Boston. Hey, he tanked to get

684
00:37:49,640 --> 00:37:53,839
Speaker 1: those picks and be they traded Eric Montross and I'm

685
00:37:53,840 --> 00:37:56,080
Speaker 1: almost positive as I gotta look at up, he traded

686
00:37:56,320 --> 00:37:59,880
Speaker 1: Eric Montross to the Dallas Mavericks for a future for

687
00:38:00,040 --> 00:38:02,759
Speaker 1: surround pick that ended up being Antoine Walker. So he

688
00:38:02,840 --> 00:38:08,640
Speaker 1: ends up doing that. And then and then like when

689
00:38:08,640 --> 00:38:12,320
Speaker 1: he was with the Celtics, they had they had Dirk

690
00:38:12,320 --> 00:38:17,080
Speaker 1: Nwinsky wired up to draft Um like that in he

691
00:38:17,200 --> 00:38:21,359
Speaker 1: has him, he hasn't wired up to draft nowitsky and

692
00:38:21,440 --> 00:38:25,279
Speaker 1: Donnie Nelson. Um ends up being an assistant coach on

693
00:38:25,400 --> 00:38:29,279
Speaker 1: that on that Nike team that Yeah, so he's an

694
00:38:29,280 --> 00:38:32,000
Speaker 1: assistant coaches. Dad knows all those guys in Europe. And

695
00:38:32,040 --> 00:38:36,719
Speaker 1: then they ended up getting that trading for tractor trailer. Basically, uh,

696
00:38:37,000 --> 00:38:40,160
Speaker 1: they swapped picks in Milwaukee to get Dirk and then

697
00:38:40,239 --> 00:38:42,719
Speaker 1: ahead of Boston. But that would have and that would

698
00:38:42,719 --> 00:38:44,919
Speaker 1: have been funny because I think he would have run

699
00:38:45,000 --> 00:38:48,719
Speaker 1: Dirk Knwinsky off early. I think that because Dirk took

700
00:38:48,800 --> 00:38:51,760
Speaker 1: some time to develop. I don't And that's the problem

701
00:38:51,800 --> 00:38:55,600
Speaker 1: with Patino. He just didn't have patience. You know, he

702
00:38:55,920 --> 00:39:00,200
Speaker 1: got rich. He got rich. N Yeah, now they they

703
00:39:00,200 --> 00:39:02,160
Speaker 1: did some good things they have like Bruce Bowen, they

704
00:39:02,200 --> 00:39:06,080
Speaker 1: got him, but like they like now, the rumor has

705
00:39:06,160 --> 00:39:09,239
Speaker 1: it that they were gonna get Tracy McGrady and that

706
00:39:09,360 --> 00:39:12,440
Speaker 1: ninety seven draft. They were going to draft Billips and

707
00:39:12,480 --> 00:39:17,279
Speaker 1: then draft draft McGrady. And he had, for what I

708
00:39:17,360 --> 00:39:21,000
Speaker 1: was told, he had a sort of a thing for

709
00:39:21,080 --> 00:39:27,000
Speaker 1: Tracy because Tracy de committed from Kentucky throughout throughout his

710
00:39:27,560 --> 00:39:30,480
Speaker 1: throughout his recruitment. And I've heard that from good sources

711
00:39:30,840 --> 00:39:32,920
Speaker 1: that he said, no, we can't have that funk that

712
00:39:33,239 --> 00:39:35,480
Speaker 1: blah blah blah. So they ended up doing Ron Mercer,

713
00:39:35,920 --> 00:39:39,399
Speaker 1: which you know that you know, that's the mistake that

714
00:39:39,440 --> 00:39:41,640
Speaker 1: these guys all make. They all they get the guys

715
00:39:41,760 --> 00:39:44,000
Speaker 1: that they do the same thing with players at times

716
00:39:44,000 --> 00:39:46,839
Speaker 1: in the NBA that they did with coaching staffs. You know,

717
00:39:47,000 --> 00:39:50,919
Speaker 1: when they get guys that they know, right. I think

718
00:39:51,239 --> 00:39:54,040
Speaker 1: Lon Krueger, I think he brought in Dan Cross to

719
00:39:54,080 --> 00:39:57,400
Speaker 1: be his point guard with the Atlanta Hawks, Right, that

720
00:39:57,600 --> 00:40:00,520
Speaker 1: was hard enough. You can't bring in Dan he was

721
00:40:01,600 --> 00:40:03,840
Speaker 1: I thought he would bringing Dmitri Hill. To be honest,

722
00:40:03,840 --> 00:40:05,960
Speaker 1: with you, but he didn't do it, and since this

723
00:40:06,080 --> 00:40:10,320
Speaker 1: but no, but so I was around, so this happens,

724
00:40:10,560 --> 00:40:12,640
Speaker 1: and and again that's why I think Rick's the best

725
00:40:12,640 --> 00:40:15,520
Speaker 1: of all time because he could take these ship programs

726
00:40:15,560 --> 00:40:19,040
Speaker 1: and and elevate them up. Of course, Kentucky and louis

727
00:40:19,080 --> 00:40:21,960
Speaker 1: vilaunch ship programs, but then he takes Louisville, which was

728
00:40:22,000 --> 00:40:24,480
Speaker 1: running them into the ground. By the time he took it,

729
00:40:24,880 --> 00:40:27,080
Speaker 1: Daddy Crumb just sort it was, it was checked out.

730
00:40:27,480 --> 00:40:30,120
Speaker 1: He takes them and he had success there. He goes

731
00:40:30,160 --> 00:40:33,440
Speaker 1: to Greece barat the Echoes, which you know, they didn't

732
00:40:33,440 --> 00:40:36,000
Speaker 1: have success. He elevates them, and then he goes to

733
00:40:36,040 --> 00:40:39,080
Speaker 1: I own and they went five games in the second year.

734
00:40:39,200 --> 00:40:43,359
Speaker 1: Pretty great things. But anyways, so he gets hired, and

735
00:40:43,360 --> 00:40:45,759
Speaker 1: my guy Leo goes, you know, Mike, I'm gonna get

736
00:40:45,760 --> 00:40:47,960
Speaker 1: you higher here. I don't know where, I don't know

737
00:40:47,960 --> 00:40:50,720
Speaker 1: what could Pacifly're gonna get you hired. So Petito hires

738
00:40:50,719 --> 00:40:54,080
Speaker 1: about five thousand people. I wasn't about to be five

739
00:40:54,120 --> 00:40:57,360
Speaker 1: thousand and one. But we go to some Italian restaurant

740
00:40:57,960 --> 00:41:01,400
Speaker 1: and um in Boston and like right after he takes

741
00:41:01,440 --> 00:41:03,680
Speaker 1: the job, this is like May because I was about

742
00:41:03,680 --> 00:41:06,360
Speaker 1: to go to the Bob Gibbons Memorial Day Classic and

743
00:41:06,400 --> 00:41:08,239
Speaker 1: I was about to fly out to that, and I

744
00:41:08,320 --> 00:41:11,600
Speaker 1: had dinner in the North End with like Jim O'Brien, Leo,

745
00:41:11,960 --> 00:41:14,600
Speaker 1: Rick and a bunch of other people, and he offers

746
00:41:14,640 --> 00:41:17,040
Speaker 1: me his driver's job. I was supposed to be the

747
00:41:17,040 --> 00:41:20,560
Speaker 1: fucking guy's driver, and now Rick Petito was my fucking idol.

748
00:41:20,640 --> 00:41:22,680
Speaker 1: So it's like, whatever the funk this guy wanted to do,

749
00:41:22,760 --> 00:41:24,400
Speaker 1: I was gonna have. I was gonna do it. So

750
00:41:24,440 --> 00:41:26,840
Speaker 1: I was like, yeah, he goes, Mike, look, you know

751
00:41:27,000 --> 00:41:29,280
Speaker 1: you're not gonna do any basketball stuff. You'll be driving

752
00:41:29,320 --> 00:41:31,880
Speaker 1: me around. You'll be with me every day. I'm like,

753
00:41:31,920 --> 00:41:34,320
Speaker 1: I'm a fucking college kid about to graduate, you know,

754
00:41:34,680 --> 00:41:37,120
Speaker 1: twenty two years old. I'm like, yeah, fuck it, let's

755
00:41:37,160 --> 00:41:41,120
Speaker 1: do it. And like just like most Patino things, that

756
00:41:41,440 --> 00:41:44,200
Speaker 1: started out good, but I never got the job, but

757
00:41:44,440 --> 00:41:48,040
Speaker 1: just he ended up hiring actually he hires the guy

758
00:41:48,120 --> 00:41:51,000
Speaker 1: that followed him to Louisville that he ended up like

759
00:41:51,080 --> 00:41:55,759
Speaker 1: sleeping with that guy's wife from before. So thankfully I

760
00:41:55,800 --> 00:41:58,480
Speaker 1: didn't have to go through any of that. Uh So,

761
00:41:58,640 --> 00:42:01,799
Speaker 1: like so I didn't get that. So anyway, so so

762
00:42:02,000 --> 00:42:05,200
Speaker 1: now I'm just like working out, going to Nike Camp,

763
00:42:05,280 --> 00:42:08,520
Speaker 1: doing ten camps a year, working with Leo, working out

764
00:42:08,560 --> 00:42:11,000
Speaker 1: local high school college guys because no one does it.

765
00:42:11,320 --> 00:42:15,120
Speaker 1: So I'm doing that and I'm learning. And then like

766
00:42:15,239 --> 00:42:18,200
Speaker 1: I get hired by the Celtics from Patino left. Uh,

767
00:42:18,520 --> 00:42:21,040
Speaker 1: Chris Wallace was the GM. Leo is still working for

768
00:42:21,080 --> 00:42:24,839
Speaker 1: the team. New ownership takes over the Celtics and they

769
00:42:24,880 --> 00:42:27,400
Speaker 1: need a guy for the new ownership. They want to

770
00:42:27,400 --> 00:42:30,000
Speaker 1: expand this scouting staff because they only had like three

771
00:42:30,000 --> 00:42:32,080
Speaker 1: guys in their whole front office, so they want to

772
00:42:32,080 --> 00:42:33,799
Speaker 1: expand it. They want to bring me in as a

773
00:42:33,800 --> 00:42:37,840
Speaker 1: low level scout basketball operations guy. But also they just

774
00:42:37,920 --> 00:42:41,120
Speaker 1: traded for Vin Baker. So I meet with Chris, and

775
00:42:41,160 --> 00:42:44,520
Speaker 1: I mean, Leo goes, might look, and you know, he goes, look,

776
00:42:45,040 --> 00:42:47,080
Speaker 1: we get this guy. We don't know, you know, he's

777
00:42:47,080 --> 00:42:50,080
Speaker 1: got some questionable off the court stuff. Can you live

778
00:42:50,120 --> 00:42:53,520
Speaker 1: with the guy? Which fucking it's millions of dollars of

779
00:42:53,600 --> 00:42:55,560
Speaker 1: fines these days, But he goes, can you live with them?

780
00:42:55,719 --> 00:42:58,080
Speaker 1: Just be a positive influenced talking group with him? With

781
00:42:58,200 --> 00:43:01,319
Speaker 1: that Vin Baker, So they trade for Vin Baker. So

782
00:43:01,360 --> 00:43:03,880
Speaker 1: I moved in with fucking Vin Baker before I officially

783
00:43:03,960 --> 00:43:08,080
Speaker 1: joined the Celtics. So like, I'm living him, fucking just

784
00:43:08,120 --> 00:43:10,600
Speaker 1: sort of like trying to be a positive influence. You know,

785
00:43:10,719 --> 00:43:14,440
Speaker 1: he's you know, he's doing whatever he's doing. And I'm like, oh,

786
00:43:14,520 --> 00:43:15,880
Speaker 1: did you know at the time he was he was

787
00:43:15,960 --> 00:43:18,280
Speaker 1: drinking that much? I didn't. I was in his house,

788
00:43:18,520 --> 00:43:20,040
Speaker 1: I lived in his house. I had no idea he

789
00:43:20,120 --> 00:43:22,840
Speaker 1: was drinking. Now I knew he had jugs of fucking

790
00:43:22,880 --> 00:43:27,279
Speaker 1: listerine around, which I guess they found out after he

791
00:43:27,360 --> 00:43:30,440
Speaker 1: was drinking that for the alcohol. And I think he

792
00:43:30,440 --> 00:43:33,759
Speaker 1: wrote it in his book that he's drinking listerine for

793
00:43:33,840 --> 00:43:36,720
Speaker 1: the ALP for the small amount of alcohol. Fucking nuts.

794
00:43:36,880 --> 00:43:40,439
Speaker 1: Did you hear the story of supposedly and of how

795
00:43:40,520 --> 00:43:44,000
Speaker 1: he may people to think he became an alcoholic? No?

796
00:43:44,280 --> 00:43:49,759
Speaker 1: Please please share. So he goes to Seattle, right, yes,

797
00:43:49,880 --> 00:43:51,719
Speaker 1: I do. I do know this, Okay, So didn't tell

798
00:43:51,760 --> 00:43:56,600
Speaker 1: me if this is what you heard, And they basically said, like, hey, Gary,

799
00:43:56,760 --> 00:43:59,160
Speaker 1: take him under your wing. Gary Paye, taking him under

800
00:43:59,160 --> 00:44:02,399
Speaker 1: your wing. And they told Ben, you do what Gary does.

801
00:44:02,840 --> 00:44:04,840
Speaker 1: Gary's a Hall of Famer. You do it, Gary, just

802
00:44:05,000 --> 00:44:07,640
Speaker 1: well to those of us who know Gary Payton, like

803
00:44:07,719 --> 00:44:10,319
Speaker 1: Gary Payton has He's one of those rare cats that

804
00:44:10,360 --> 00:44:15,719
Speaker 1: can go out, put down his last beer five am, am, Hey,

805
00:44:15,920 --> 00:44:19,600
Speaker 1: go to shoot around, Yeah, and bust your ask okay,

806
00:44:19,719 --> 00:44:23,040
Speaker 1: then go back, sleep all day and then take a nap.

807
00:44:23,239 --> 00:44:25,879
Speaker 1: They sleep all day, get up, have somebo to eat,

808
00:44:26,440 --> 00:44:29,000
Speaker 1: go to the go to the gym. You know, give

809
00:44:29,000 --> 00:44:31,960
Speaker 1: you twenty, give you twenty and ten or whatever, be

810
00:44:32,000 --> 00:44:34,880
Speaker 1: a Hall of Famer, go out at night. But again,

811
00:44:35,120 --> 00:44:38,279
Speaker 1: that's exactly right. That's exactly right. And and the other

812
00:44:38,320 --> 00:44:40,960
Speaker 1: part with Gary is and this is I have another

813
00:44:41,160 --> 00:44:44,719
Speaker 1: friend who was a teammate of his who said, Gary, Uh,

814
00:44:44,760 --> 00:44:47,520
Speaker 1: in effort to prove he wasn't an alcoholic, but also

815
00:44:47,600 --> 00:44:49,720
Speaker 1: to change it up, he would be on a different

816
00:44:49,760 --> 00:44:53,319
Speaker 1: liquor every year. I didn't know that. Yeah, so one

817
00:44:53,360 --> 00:44:58,520
Speaker 1: year he'd be on the Hennessy Vassi A it was.

818
00:44:58,719 --> 00:45:01,560
Speaker 1: It was something different every year. But but but but that

819
00:45:01,640 --> 00:45:05,640
Speaker 1: Gary's like legendary for like some dude just can do that. Yeah,

820
00:45:05,800 --> 00:45:07,600
Speaker 1: you know, he can do it. Some dudes had to

821
00:45:07,640 --> 00:45:09,560
Speaker 1: be in bed at tenant ten at night and have

822
00:45:09,680 --> 00:45:12,800
Speaker 1: milking cookies and tuck in nightnight bye bye, right, and

823
00:45:12,800 --> 00:45:15,240
Speaker 1: and eat well in order to perform at their best.

824
00:45:15,520 --> 00:45:21,320
Speaker 1: Then like get unleashed those jeans where he just became

825
00:45:21,360 --> 00:45:24,239
Speaker 1: an addict and he just dregs out. You're living with him,

826
00:45:24,480 --> 00:45:27,760
Speaker 1: living with him before I officially joined the Celtics because

827
00:45:27,800 --> 00:45:30,040
Speaker 1: the new ownership group, even though he bought the team

828
00:45:30,040 --> 00:45:32,840
Speaker 1: in October, doesn't take up the team over until February.

829
00:45:33,120 --> 00:45:35,879
Speaker 1: So the new ownership group that's there now, so I'm

830
00:45:35,920 --> 00:45:39,120
Speaker 1: just living with them, going in like breaking down European

831
00:45:39,200 --> 00:45:42,280
Speaker 1: tapes and stuff that was like the Darko Milititch traft.

832
00:45:42,600 --> 00:45:46,240
Speaker 1: So I'm like doing both and then like and then

833
00:45:46,040 --> 00:45:49,320
Speaker 1: then they hired me officially in February. Danny Ainge takes

834
00:45:49,320 --> 00:45:52,200
Speaker 1: over in like April of that year, and then he

835
00:45:52,239 --> 00:45:54,640
Speaker 1: takes over the reins of the team. So I'm working

836
00:45:54,680 --> 00:45:59,200
Speaker 1: for the team. And the summer, Dave Hoppla runs these

837
00:45:59,280 --> 00:46:03,279
Speaker 1: college camp's college shooting camps in Chicago and Philly. He goes, Mike,

838
00:46:03,320 --> 00:46:05,440
Speaker 1: you want to work him, which I think was illegal

839
00:46:05,480 --> 00:46:07,600
Speaker 1: if you know, because they were still college guys. I'm like,

840
00:46:07,640 --> 00:46:09,880
Speaker 1: funk it, Yeah, I'll work it. So I'm in Chicago.

841
00:46:10,120 --> 00:46:11,880
Speaker 1: We did it for a couple of straight years in

842
00:46:12,000 --> 00:46:15,160
Speaker 1: Tim Grover's gym and hoops the gym, and I always

843
00:46:15,200 --> 00:46:18,439
Speaker 1: wanted to work for Tim, my best fucking Like, that's

844
00:46:18,480 --> 00:46:20,840
Speaker 1: the guy I wanted to work for because Tim no

845
00:46:20,880 --> 00:46:23,280
Speaker 1: one was doing it. He was working with NBA players

846
00:46:23,280 --> 00:46:25,840
Speaker 1: in the off season. Obviously you read about what he

847
00:46:25,840 --> 00:46:28,600
Speaker 1: did with Michael, but he was working out with Michael Finway,

848
00:46:28,680 --> 00:46:31,960
Speaker 1: Jawan Howard, you know, I mean guys like that, Just

849
00:46:32,200 --> 00:46:35,840
Speaker 1: Elton Brand, you know, Bobby Simmons, like had a million

850
00:46:35,840 --> 00:46:38,880
Speaker 1: guys in Chicago, and I wanted to do that. So

851
00:46:38,920 --> 00:46:41,040
Speaker 1: we're working out. He wouldn't give me the time a

852
00:46:41,040 --> 00:46:43,560
Speaker 1: fucking day. Like, I always wanted to talk to Tim.

853
00:46:43,600 --> 00:46:46,239
Speaker 1: If anyone knows Tim, he's not the easiest guy to

854
00:46:46,280 --> 00:46:48,120
Speaker 1: talk to right off the bat, So I'm trying to

855
00:46:48,120 --> 00:46:52,000
Speaker 1: talk to him. Nothing. So Antoine Walker had a charity

856
00:46:52,040 --> 00:46:54,799
Speaker 1: game in Chicago where he would bring in all these

857
00:46:54,880 --> 00:46:57,360
Speaker 1: NBA guys and play at the United Center. So we

858
00:46:57,440 --> 00:46:59,400
Speaker 1: had this camp where we work out the guys like

859
00:46:59,440 --> 00:47:01,480
Speaker 1: in the morning, a couple of hours off working on

860
00:47:01,520 --> 00:47:04,359
Speaker 1: the afternoon, and we're done. So in between sessions, I'm

861
00:47:04,360 --> 00:47:07,160
Speaker 1: walking out of Grover's. Jim Paul Pierce is walking in

862
00:47:07,280 --> 00:47:09,920
Speaker 1: and I'm already with the mat the Celtics at the

863
00:47:09,920 --> 00:47:12,399
Speaker 1: time for like a year. He goes, Mike, you wanna,

864
00:47:12,719 --> 00:47:14,759
Speaker 1: you know, want to work me out real quick. I'm like, well,

865
00:47:14,840 --> 00:47:17,279
Speaker 1: you know, I'm grabbing lunch real quick, Paul, I'll come

866
00:47:17,280 --> 00:47:18,839
Speaker 1: back and get you. Goes, that's fine. I'm gonna work

867
00:47:18,840 --> 00:47:20,840
Speaker 1: out with Grover in the weights and then you know,

868
00:47:20,880 --> 00:47:22,719
Speaker 1: we could work out later. So I'm like, gotta fuck it,

869
00:47:22,760 --> 00:47:26,560
Speaker 1: I'll do it. So I go there, we grab lunch,

870
00:47:26,600 --> 00:47:28,759
Speaker 1: I come back, I work out Paul Pierce and then

871
00:47:28,800 --> 00:47:31,440
Speaker 1: Tim Groger comes down and starts watching. Oh god, this

872
00:47:31,520 --> 00:47:34,080
Speaker 1: fucking guy, you know, like he's probably making fun of me.

873
00:47:34,239 --> 00:47:36,600
Speaker 1: Funk that guy, blah blah blah. So I worked him

874
00:47:36,640 --> 00:47:39,200
Speaker 1: up like an hour and a half because I'm a

875
00:47:39,280 --> 00:47:42,440
Speaker 1: fucking grotesque human being. I'm like Uncle Fester on steroids, Like,

876
00:47:42,480 --> 00:47:45,720
Speaker 1: no bald white fact guy should be working on NBA

877
00:47:45,800 --> 00:47:48,520
Speaker 1: guys in them sort of do whatever. So I walk

878
00:47:48,560 --> 00:47:50,600
Speaker 1: off the court I'm done, and he goes, hey, you

879
00:47:50,680 --> 00:47:52,799
Speaker 1: got a minute. I go yeah, for sure. He goes,

880
00:47:53,160 --> 00:47:55,040
Speaker 1: what do you do. I go, well, I work for

881
00:47:55,040 --> 00:47:56,880
Speaker 1: the Celtics. I'm sort of like a low level scout.

882
00:47:56,880 --> 00:47:58,680
Speaker 1: He goes, I want you to work for me. I

883
00:47:58,719 --> 00:48:00,880
Speaker 1: want you to. I never see a guy looked like

884
00:48:01,000 --> 00:48:03,840
Speaker 1: you put an NBA all start through a workout. I

885
00:48:03,880 --> 00:48:06,959
Speaker 1: want to hire you, I go, I said, Tim, I'd

886
00:48:06,960 --> 00:48:09,360
Speaker 1: love to, but I work for the Celtics. He goes, well,

887
00:48:09,520 --> 00:48:11,279
Speaker 1: how about we do this. How about you work for

888
00:48:11,320 --> 00:48:13,600
Speaker 1: them and you talked to Danny, work with him for

889
00:48:13,719 --> 00:48:15,600
Speaker 1: nine months, and then you work with me from my

890
00:48:15,760 --> 00:48:18,600
Speaker 1: July one October one, and then you can do back

891
00:48:18,640 --> 00:48:20,600
Speaker 1: and forth. And I know, like Tim Gurgridge and those

892
00:48:20,600 --> 00:48:22,839
Speaker 1: guys were doing that with Portland at the time, where

893
00:48:22,880 --> 00:48:25,880
Speaker 1: he could sort of fluctuate his deal. I said, let

894
00:48:25,880 --> 00:48:27,840
Speaker 1: me ask. So I go back. I asked Danny and

895
00:48:27,920 --> 00:48:29,840
Speaker 1: he goes, yeah, hell yeah, you better do that, like

896
00:48:29,960 --> 00:48:32,800
Speaker 1: that's a great opportunity. So I'm like great. So I

897
00:48:32,880 --> 00:48:35,840
Speaker 1: ended up working for Tim and running all his basketball

898
00:48:35,880 --> 00:48:40,040
Speaker 1: workouts with Michael finnwiy Juwan Howard, Sean Wivingston, Dwayne Wade,

899
00:48:40,360 --> 00:48:43,319
Speaker 1: you know, Andre Goodala, all those guys, and I'd work

900
00:48:43,400 --> 00:48:46,479
Speaker 1: his id, run at his basketball. A couple of years later,

901
00:48:46,920 --> 00:48:49,120
Speaker 1: Ain said, look, the NBA is cracking down on this.

902
00:48:49,200 --> 00:48:51,279
Speaker 1: You've got to either pick Grover, you gotta pick us.

903
00:48:51,280 --> 00:48:53,319
Speaker 1: Whatever you want to do is fine, this is like

904
00:48:53,320 --> 00:48:55,440
Speaker 1: oh six. I was like, I'm gonna pick Rover because

905
00:48:55,640 --> 00:48:56,880
Speaker 1: you know, this is what I want to do. I

906
00:48:56,920 --> 00:48:59,360
Speaker 1: love scouting, don't get me wrong, but this is what

907
00:48:59,440 --> 00:49:02,160
Speaker 1: I want to do. In Boston was my hometown, but

908
00:49:02,760 --> 00:49:05,000
Speaker 1: like the opportunity to work for Tim. Tim was my

909
00:49:05,120 --> 00:49:07,800
Speaker 1: favorite boss and best boss of all time. So I

910
00:49:07,880 --> 00:49:10,000
Speaker 1: end up working for Tim for like ten years running

911
00:49:10,000 --> 00:49:14,000
Speaker 1: his basketball. Anyways, fast forward, Um, it's like oh eight,

912
00:49:14,080 --> 00:49:20,600
Speaker 1: oh nine, uh no seven? Actually Kobe Kobe does his

913
00:49:20,680 --> 00:49:24,360
Speaker 1: Skill Academy out in Mottern day is first and only

914
00:49:24,400 --> 00:49:26,400
Speaker 1: one and he goes, Mike, I'm gonna set you up

915
00:49:26,440 --> 00:49:30,080
Speaker 1: to work out Kobe, I said, you know you want

916
00:49:30,080 --> 00:49:31,759
Speaker 1: to do that. I'm like, yeah, funk, y'all do I

917
00:49:31,800 --> 00:49:34,360
Speaker 1: want to do that? So, um, I ended up working

918
00:49:34,400 --> 00:49:37,440
Speaker 1: out Kobe. I get a call what Yeah, and my

919
00:49:37,640 --> 00:49:40,120
Speaker 1: actually you see Irvine, you see eyes where you used

920
00:49:40,120 --> 00:49:43,640
Speaker 1: to it? Yeah, your friend Rick Crawford Hall uh in

921
00:49:43,680 --> 00:49:45,600
Speaker 1: the arena or the one with the stage with the

922
00:49:45,680 --> 00:49:47,560
Speaker 1: with the stage and the one with the stage in it,

923
00:49:47,680 --> 00:49:49,160
Speaker 1: the one with the stage. I don't even know that

924
00:49:49,200 --> 00:49:52,520
Speaker 1: they used to play there. No ship dude, and they

925
00:49:52,560 --> 00:49:59,879
Speaker 1: had dudes Gianna Rod Legend, Thornton. Yes, Gotti Brooks came

926
00:50:00,280 --> 00:50:03,280
Speaker 1: right when they started playing the brands. How about Ben McDonald,

927
00:50:03,360 --> 00:50:06,080
Speaker 1: how about you know they have Ben McDonald played in

928
00:50:06,080 --> 00:50:08,960
Speaker 1: the league. They had they had in McGhee. Yeah, get me,

929
00:50:09,560 --> 00:50:14,720
Speaker 1: you know, retired Jersey overseas whatever they used to have dudes. Yeah, dude.

930
00:50:14,760 --> 00:50:16,600
Speaker 1: And they played up and they played fast, and they

931
00:50:16,600 --> 00:50:19,360
Speaker 1: played that little tiny Crawford. I fucking love that. I

932
00:50:19,400 --> 00:50:22,520
Speaker 1: loved those small gyms. So the guy goes, hey, Mike,

933
00:50:23,000 --> 00:50:25,080
Speaker 1: uh Car's gonna pick you up at fourth or like

934
00:50:25,239 --> 00:50:27,160
Speaker 1: four o'clock whatever. I thought, Yeah, that's great. You got

935
00:50:27,160 --> 00:50:29,880
Speaker 1: dinner that night. That's awesome. He goes, no, no no, no, motherfucker.

936
00:50:29,920 --> 00:50:32,200
Speaker 1: He goes the boys before I am. I'm like, yeah,

937
00:50:32,239 --> 00:50:34,439
Speaker 1: fuck it. I'm like, now I'm shipping my pants because

938
00:50:34,480 --> 00:50:37,080
Speaker 1: I've worked out like this, right, I've worked out like

939
00:50:37,280 --> 00:50:40,080
Speaker 1: good NBA players, but I've never worked out that fucking guy.

940
00:50:40,120 --> 00:50:41,839
Speaker 1: And he scared the shift out of me. And I

941
00:50:41,880 --> 00:50:44,839
Speaker 1: was like, alright, fuck it, let's do it. So him

942
00:50:44,880 --> 00:50:50,240
Speaker 1: and Chase Buttinger were there because uh Flinka was recruiting Buttinger.

943
00:50:50,360 --> 00:50:53,960
Speaker 1: He was a college counselor at Kobe's academy and I

944
00:50:54,000 --> 00:50:56,000
Speaker 1: was doing the college workout, so I'm like, fuck it.

945
00:50:56,160 --> 00:50:59,080
Speaker 1: So it's me, Chase and Kobe. So I worked him

946
00:50:59,080 --> 00:51:01,880
Speaker 1: out for like two hour, right, he fucking dranch and

947
00:51:02,000 --> 00:51:05,759
Speaker 1: sweat and it was fucking awesome. Doug like simple as

948
00:51:05,800 --> 00:51:08,399
Speaker 1: simple can be. He didn't say ship. Whatever I asked

949
00:51:08,440 --> 00:51:11,040
Speaker 1: him to do he did and like it was just basic.

950
00:51:11,160 --> 00:51:15,680
Speaker 1: I stopped. I corrected. Fucking amazing. Two hours after, I'm

951
00:51:15,680 --> 00:51:18,600
Speaker 1: like KB, I didn't call HIMKB back down, Like, Kobe,

952
00:51:19,239 --> 00:51:21,160
Speaker 1: we got camp tomorrow. Do you want gonna come back?

953
00:51:21,239 --> 00:51:24,800
Speaker 1: He goes. He goes, you can come back, but I

954
00:51:24,800 --> 00:51:27,280
Speaker 1: ain't touching the ball. I'm doing two hours of defense

955
00:51:27,640 --> 00:51:29,960
Speaker 1: I'm doing And I was like, yeah, fun, yeah, he's

956
00:51:30,000 --> 00:51:31,560
Speaker 1: full ship. I said, all right, what are you doing?

957
00:51:31,880 --> 00:51:34,160
Speaker 1: He goes, I'm working on rotations, I'm working on slides

958
00:51:34,160 --> 00:51:36,400
Speaker 1: and working on stands. I'm working on not leaving my

959
00:51:36,440 --> 00:51:39,399
Speaker 1: feet on jump shooters. I'm working on contestant and I'm

960
00:51:39,440 --> 00:51:41,399
Speaker 1: doing this with a thirty powder weave vest on them.

961
00:51:41,440 --> 00:51:46,040
Speaker 1: Like what the funk? Like that is some fucking that

962
00:51:46,239 --> 00:51:48,719
Speaker 1: is some tournament. That's some Jason Bourne ship. And I'm

963
00:51:48,760 --> 00:51:50,960
Speaker 1: like wow, he goes well, I said, what are you doing?

964
00:51:50,960 --> 00:51:52,879
Speaker 1: The rest of the day goes well, I'm gonna work out.

965
00:51:53,320 --> 00:51:55,600
Speaker 1: I'm gonna work out with my weights, I'm gonna eat,

966
00:51:55,640 --> 00:51:58,520
Speaker 1: I'm gonna cold top, hot tub, I'm gonna take a nap,

967
00:51:58,560 --> 00:52:00,560
Speaker 1: gonna come back, I'm gonna do yo, I'm gonna do

968
00:52:00,719 --> 00:52:03,200
Speaker 1: martial arts. They're gonna map it, play with the kids,

969
00:52:03,360 --> 00:52:06,520
Speaker 1: come back, track work. And this was fucking like a

970
00:52:06,640 --> 00:52:09,040
Speaker 1: month after the season ended, probably less and I'm like,

971
00:52:09,880 --> 00:52:13,399
Speaker 1: holy sh it, like what the funk then that? But

972
00:52:13,400 --> 00:52:15,600
Speaker 1: but again, the first time I was gonna work him out,

973
00:52:15,600 --> 00:52:18,080
Speaker 1: he looked me up and down like every NBA player does,

974
00:52:18,160 --> 00:52:20,480
Speaker 1: like what the fund are you gonna do with me?

975
00:52:20,680 --> 00:52:23,400
Speaker 1: Like what the fun? So it was great. So anyway

976
00:52:23,600 --> 00:52:26,560
Speaker 1: that you know, the the that moment though, when you

977
00:52:26,960 --> 00:52:29,080
Speaker 1: when you see what the real thing looks like. I

978
00:52:29,120 --> 00:52:31,400
Speaker 1: actually told us to my my son and a buddy

979
00:52:31,480 --> 00:52:34,320
Speaker 1: the other day where we used to say this in college,

980
00:52:34,320 --> 00:52:36,200
Speaker 1: and I don't know if this is an expression that

981
00:52:36,239 --> 00:52:39,960
Speaker 1: other people use. I remember we sky said it notre dame,

982
00:52:40,560 --> 00:52:43,360
Speaker 1: and then I used it. We're at Oaklahoma State so

983
00:52:43,640 --> 00:52:49,759
Speaker 1: we're playing against Iverson and I always I'm not a

984
00:52:49,840 --> 00:52:52,360
Speaker 1: huge Iverson guy in terms of the skill. What he

985
00:52:52,440 --> 00:52:55,799
Speaker 1: had was unbelievable speed and quickness. Some guys are just fast,

986
00:52:55,840 --> 00:52:58,839
Speaker 1: you guys are quick. He was both right, but he

987
00:52:59,040 --> 00:53:00,680
Speaker 1: at one point in the game and he stole the

988
00:53:00,719 --> 00:53:02,600
Speaker 1: ball and he waited. We had a seven footer Matt

989
00:53:02,640 --> 00:53:05,360
Speaker 1: Gotch who was a white kid, focused at but a

990
00:53:05,480 --> 00:53:08,640
Speaker 1: really good actor. You waited up, yeah, and don't done

991
00:53:09,440 --> 00:53:11,920
Speaker 1: and I'll never yet, And I mean it was so nasty.

992
00:53:12,040 --> 00:53:17,320
Speaker 1: Was like, holy shit, um, and I remember we're watching

993
00:53:17,360 --> 00:53:20,280
Speaker 1: film the next day and there's like, you saw Jesus.

994
00:53:20,480 --> 00:53:22,600
Speaker 1: That's what Jesus looks like, right, That's what the real

995
00:53:22,640 --> 00:53:25,799
Speaker 1: thing looks like. And that was that. That's that's that's

996
00:53:26,120 --> 00:53:28,920
Speaker 1: like that moment when you go you've you've worked with

997
00:53:29,560 --> 00:53:32,719
Speaker 1: NBA stars and you work with a guy who's not

998
00:53:32,760 --> 00:53:37,080
Speaker 1: only a superstar but also has a completely next level

999
00:53:37,120 --> 00:53:40,360
Speaker 1: mentality of everything it takes in order to be the

1000
00:53:40,400 --> 00:53:43,520
Speaker 1: greatest player ever, and you're like, that's what Jesus looks like.

1001
00:53:43,680 --> 00:53:45,759
Speaker 1: Like that if you if you wanted, that's that's what

1002
00:53:45,840 --> 00:53:47,960
Speaker 1: it looks like. I got a great Iverson story. So

1003
00:53:48,440 --> 00:53:51,799
Speaker 1: before when Jim O'Brien was there with the Celtics. They're

1004
00:53:51,800 --> 00:53:55,160
Speaker 1: going conference final. Coneah. They went to the conference finals,

1005
00:53:55,760 --> 00:53:58,480
Speaker 1: but like so they I wasn't working for the team,

1006
00:53:58,480 --> 00:54:02,239
Speaker 1: but Chris Wallace. They signed Omar Cook the last day

1007
00:54:02,239 --> 00:54:04,520
Speaker 1: of the year to get his rights for the summer.

1008
00:54:04,880 --> 00:54:07,480
Speaker 1: Jim O'Brien wanted nothing to do with Omar Cook. They

1009
00:54:07,480 --> 00:54:09,880
Speaker 1: were in a playoff run. He wanted nothing to do

1010
00:54:09,960 --> 00:54:13,000
Speaker 1: with him. This is like when Omar I got drafted.

1011
00:54:13,239 --> 00:54:16,480
Speaker 1: I played for like six teams in the same year,

1012
00:54:16,719 --> 00:54:19,080
Speaker 1: and then like you know, and then the Celtics have

1013
00:54:19,320 --> 00:54:21,520
Speaker 1: So he goes Mike work out Omark Cook every day.

1014
00:54:21,719 --> 00:54:24,239
Speaker 1: He goes like Jim O'Brien wants nothing to do with him.

1015
00:54:24,280 --> 00:54:26,919
Speaker 1: Come a like three o'clock whatever. So I was sort

1016
00:54:26,960 --> 00:54:29,239
Speaker 1: of seeing a girl from that went to Temple. So

1017
00:54:29,280 --> 00:54:31,160
Speaker 1: I was like, after my last workout, I had all

1018
00:54:31,200 --> 00:54:34,480
Speaker 1: my Celtics here on. They just eliminated fucking AI and

1019
00:54:34,560 --> 00:54:36,560
Speaker 1: the last round of the playoffs and the last that

1020
00:54:36,640 --> 00:54:41,239
Speaker 1: last round. So I drive down. I stay at the

1021
00:54:41,320 --> 00:54:44,560
Speaker 1: Holiday Inn on City Line Avenue and Philly, like right

1022
00:54:44,600 --> 00:54:47,799
Speaker 1: outside of fucking Philly, right where St. Josephs. I pull

1023
00:54:47,880 --> 00:54:50,680
Speaker 1: up Doug. It's like eleven o'clock at night, there's like

1024
00:54:50,920 --> 00:54:55,680
Speaker 1: nine hummers and this fucking Holiday Inn parking lot. I

1025
00:54:55,840 --> 00:54:57,680
Speaker 1: walk up, I'm about to check in. I get all

1026
00:54:57,719 --> 00:55:00,520
Speaker 1: my Celtics here on. I looked to my and it's

1027
00:55:00,600 --> 00:55:04,520
Speaker 1: fucking Iverson ship faced looking me up and down like

1028
00:55:04,560 --> 00:55:06,880
Speaker 1: he was gonna stab me because I got I'm the

1029
00:55:06,880 --> 00:55:10,000
Speaker 1: only fucking fat white dude and fucking Philly, We're an

1030
00:55:10,040 --> 00:55:13,200
Speaker 1: all Celtic gear. This fucking guy just gets eliminated in

1031
00:55:13,239 --> 00:55:16,440
Speaker 1: a series and a half with with fucking this Boston

1032
00:55:16,520 --> 00:55:18,600
Speaker 1: and he's looking me up, he's got like and he's

1033
00:55:18,600 --> 00:55:21,239
Speaker 1: going back, stumbling back. I guess they told me he

1034
00:55:21,280 --> 00:55:24,560
Speaker 1: had like the whole top floor, like bought out the

1035
00:55:24,600 --> 00:55:28,719
Speaker 1: whole year, like the whole top floor, and like, I'm like,

1036
00:55:28,840 --> 00:55:31,960
Speaker 1: I'm gonna fucking die tonight. And I was like laughing

1037
00:55:32,160 --> 00:55:34,960
Speaker 1: to myself, but not laughing to myself. I literally almost

1038
00:55:34,960 --> 00:55:41,000
Speaker 1: ship my fans. But anyways, that's my Iverson story. So

1039
00:55:41,080 --> 00:55:43,360
Speaker 1: you can follow Mike get at Hoop Consultants. Remember you

1040
00:55:43,360 --> 00:55:45,279
Speaker 1: can also listen to The Doug Otlet Show daily three

1041
00:55:45,280 --> 00:55:47,799
Speaker 1: to six Eastern twelve three Pacific. Alright, so that's the

1042
00:55:47,880 --> 00:55:50,319
Speaker 1: end of part one. We got more to come. I mean,

1043
00:55:50,400 --> 00:55:54,320
Speaker 1: he's just an amazing storyteller and I felt so compelled

1044
00:55:54,400 --> 00:55:56,200
Speaker 1: we kept him on for two and a half hours.

1045
00:55:56,600 --> 00:56:01,680
Speaker 1: So remember the download Part two also down, subscribe, review

1046
00:56:02,120 --> 00:56:06,759
Speaker 1: right one and rate us wherever you download podcast, And

1047
00:56:06,800 --> 00:56:08,480
Speaker 1: thanks so much for listening. I'm Doug Gottlie. This is

1048
00:56:08,480 --> 00:56:08,839
Speaker 1: all ball